Ibogaine List Archives - 2005-02-2

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:44:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Lee,

Interesting post, I also had a lot of shit happen during my life like most people., except I was sexually abused by teenage girls when I was 3,…crazy ay,..wish they would do it now.
Any teenage girls out there that are still interested. 🙂

They would strip down take my clothes of and put me in the bed between them,..I don’t really remember exactly what they did,..I just remember I did not like it.
I have always been ok with it,…because they were girls I suppose.

I am listening to Led Zeppelin,..people are telling me to get with the times,..hey I have a lot of catching up to do.

Then when I was 4 my mother died of womb cancer and I was told and heard through the whispers that it was my fault (what a crock of shit) they said that if she
hadn’t had me she would be ok,…I believed it till I got a bit older and realised it was just hurtful bullshit. We left Beirut after mum died and came to Australia,
the only female bonding I had was my beautiful sister,..all my aunties uncles cousins ect were in Beirut. Dad did not have a wife to help him so he was very hard on us. When I was belted my hands would be tied behind my back and legs also tied then belted with a doubled up rope, not as bad as what Francis copped, i was not ever knocked out however would have welts all over me.

My father would lock the lounge room door which lead into the kitchen before going to work, if I did not wake up in time,I would not be able to have breakfeast or make any lunch, so at school I would be very hungry,I would come home that weak with hunger that I would eat the white tip of grasses, raid the neibours mandarin tree (when in season) there were times I would be faint with hunger waiting for dad to get home.

I would sometimes get up to mischief on the school holidays, so dad used to lock me in the garage early in the morning before going to work with two sandwiches and a bucket to go to the toilet in. He would let me out when he got home at 5:45pm. My father was beautiful in many ways, however very old fashioned and understandably qui9ck to go of his head with 4 children to bring up and work full time. He was at his wits end with us,..I understand what he did now. I love him.

Dad also died of cancer,..I nursed him for 3 months and was there when he passed on,went home. I had a nasty break with a straight girl I went out with and lost 10’s of thousands in our business venture. My brother was then murdered whilst working,..two years ago, he was my best friend, I saw him die also.

(I saw my brother when I took the Iboga)

Many more things,…however I will not bore you. We all have our hurts and pains our injustices,..this is life. I have had it better than 90% of the world population,..My experiences have made me who I am today,..they gave me depth of character,..even being addicted to opiates from the age of 15,..I do not regret any of it. It has been part of my life experiences,..and Wow what a journey. I love it,…life. None of this gives me a reason to use,..I don’t know if it ever did.

What I am trying to say is there are many many people who have had much harder lives than this and they don’t use or have a crutch,..I feel personally that there is
something else behind it,..behing becoming an addict. To me heroin would fill that gap inside me,that gap that told you something was missing,..I believe that gap is the feeling of seperation from the all,..our longing to be contected,.. loved without condition. Heroin gave me a feeling of full love, it filled me, made me feel whole.

I beleive that this is why most “other” treatments don’t work it leaves you with the “gap” a feeling of emptiness,..Iboga filled my heart with honey,..it filled the gap,..
I feel whole,..all man. Iboga is the only thing that haas worked worked for me.

love,
Jasen.

From: bm <bmali1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ecstacy 2
Date: February 18, 2005 at 7:40:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1416073,00.html
Ecstasy trials for combat stress
David Adam, science correspondent
Thursday February 17, 2005
The Guardian

American soldiers traumatised by fighting in Iraq and
Afghanistan are to be offered the drug ecstasy to help
free them of flashbacks and recurring nightmares.
The US food and drug administration has given the
go-ahead for the soldiers to be included in an
experiment to see if MDMA, the active ingredient in
ecstasy, can treat post-traumatic stress disorder.

Scientists behind the trial in South Carolina think
the feelings of emotional closeness reported by those
taking the drug could help the soldiers talk about
their experiences to therapists. Several victims of
rape and sexual abuse with post-traumatic stress
disorder, for whom existing treatments are
ineffective, have been given MDMA since the research
began last year.

Michael Mithoefer, the psychiatrist leading the trial,
said: “It’s looking very promising. It’s too early to
draw any conclusions but in these treatment-resistant
people so far the results are encouraging.

“People are able to connect more deeply on an
emotional level with the fact they are safe now.”

He is about to advertise for war veterans who fought
in the last five years to join the study.

According to the US national centre for post-traumatic
stress disorder, up to 30% of combat veterans suffer
from the condition at some point in their lives.

Known as shell shock during the first world war and
combat fatigue in the second, the condition is
characterised by intrusive memories, panic attacks and
the avoidance of situations which might force
sufferers to relive their wartime experiences.

Dr Mithoefer said the MDMA helped people discuss
traumatic situations without triggering anxiety.

“It appears to act as a catalyst to help people move
through whatever’s been blocking their success in
therapy.”

The existing drug-assisted therapy sessions last up to
eight hours, during music is played. The patients
swallow a capsule containing a placebo or 125mg of
MDMA – about the same or a little more than a typical
ecstasy tablet.

Psychologists assess the patients before and after the
trial to judge whether the drug has helped.

The study has provoked controversy, because
significant doubts remain about the long-term risks of
ecstasy.

Animal studies suggest that it lowers levels of the
brain chemical serotonin, and some politicians and
anti-drug campaigners have argued that research into
possible medical benefits of illegal drugs presents a
falsely reassuring message.

The South Carolina study marks a resurgence of
interest in the use of controlled psychedelic and
hallucinogenic drugs. Several studies in the US are
planned or are under way to investigate whether MDMA,
LSD and psilocybin, the active ingredient in magic
mushrooms, can treat conditions ranging from obsessive
compulsive disorder to anxiety in terminal cancer
patients.

=====
” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine of Hippo
Very bad isnt dead (Things can get worse.)–Haitian Proverbs
“A truth thats told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.” William Blake.

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From: bm <bmali1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ecstacy 1
Date: February 18, 2005 at 7:38:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

linked are a comment and article on use of ecstacy by
the US GOVT .

http://blog.lewrockwell.com/

Drug War Hypocrisy
Posted by Anthony Gregory at 06:50 PM

For years, MDMA was used clinically for psychiatric
treatment, marital counseling, helping people get over
post-traumatic stress disorder, and dealing with
addiction problems. The drug was invented in the early
20th century and accepted by many scientists as having
some medical uses. Then the feds made it illegal,
along with other empathogens and hallucinogens. After
that surprise! it became wildly popular in
colleges and dance clubs. For a few years, there was
some hysteria over this “designer drug” which, like
“assault weapon,” means something the feds don’t like
and possession of it became punished through
increasingly draconian means and unconstitutional
mandatory minimum sentences. About five years ago,
there were some proposals to make it illegal to have
it in one’s bloodstream, unusual even for the drug
war, and the drug was seen as a menace that would
justify banning speech about it. Censorship was in the
original draft of Feinstein and Hatch’s
“Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act,” later
renamed the “Club-drug Anti-Proliferation Act,” and
once again renamed the warm and fuzzy “Children’s
Health and Safety Act.”

Yes, MDMA (or “ecstacy”) seems to cause long-term
problems in large doses, but there’s been junk science
on the issue as well, including a doctored photo of a
brain of a user that became famous. (BTW, I hope no
one reads this as an endorsement of the drug.) But
what of the original medical uses, before the feds
turned it into a forbidden fruit? Is it really, like
marijuana supposedly is, totally without any medicinal
value? And if so, why is it now being administered to
U.S. soldiers with shell shock from Afghanistan and
Iraq “to help free them of flashbacks and recurring
nightmares,” in the precise way it was used clinically
for years before it was made illegal? Of course, the
state typically exempts itself from its own laws, and
this is simply one more example. Either the drug has
some medical benefits, in which case it does not
belong under Schedule I, the most restricted federal
category, even under current federal guidelines, or it
doesn’t have such benefits and the state is doping its
troops up on so

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 7:31:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee and Shelly,

A prayer of guidance has already been said.
Just sent some more.

Hoping your freind heals quickly.

I just lit a candle in Australia for you both.
love,
Jasen.

From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 7:17:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, you said the Whole Story, the reason a junkie’s life is HELL is becauseof legislation determining the illegality, and the fact that we intimidated all other countries to change their laws to mimic the United States. Certainly we would have some overdoses, and certainly all would not be idyllic with legal oiates, however Hell is because of what we go thru to keep a job, a habit, a secret, and then what society and law enforcement does to us because of our use….!.

Brad Fisher
Your Wheel Estate Specialist
Guaranty RV
brad.fisher@guaranty.com
541-912-3215
800-283-9163 ext.3053
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

>Wow i never heard that before….every junkie i know including the one i >use to be was in hell and only digging deeper by the hour…the only >relief comes when you ahve the dope in your hand and finally shoot up >only to realize that you only prolonged your meager existence by a few >lauzy hours before that demon starts to whine and plead for the next >shot—-i dont see any fun or excitment in this –or other drugs such as >rock/meth/blow etc –<

if drugs were legal, so many of those consequences, the resulting hell, would not exist for a user. I know what I’m talking about, please believe me. I do know what I’m talking about. I can assure you that if you took away the running the streets, the sneaking and coniving, the need to do anything to obtain a smidgen of the drug, it wouldn’t be always bad. It just wouldn’t be.

The key, the proof to this is so obvious: Otherwise, “they” would not be prescribing opiates for pain if all use was going to be bad, and having said that, as a chronic pain patient I do not have a “meager existance.” I’ve taken steps to make sure my existance is not meager by participating in my existance regardless of whether I need opiates to do it comfortably enough or not.
Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

(but drug use >certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to >bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no
>negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, >
Wow i never heard that before….every junkie i know including the one i use to be was in hell and only digging deeper by the hour…the only relief comes when you ahve the dope in your hand and finally shoot up only to realize that you only prolonged your meager existence by a few lauzy hours before that demon starts to whine and plead for the next shot—-i dont see any fun or excitment in this –or other drugs such as rock/meth/blow etc —
Drug addiction can very well be compared to sexual abuse. Both have suffered extremely although in different ways ie the drug user by abondoing his soul/familly/self etc the victim of sexual abuse in loosing faith in others/in his own worth etc. However to know what the other person feels like you have to experience it your self. that said it is only feasible tht a victim of sexual abuse cannot fathom the pain in a drug addict but both tread on the same path–the only solution and by no means simple is to look back and resolve it
Regards
matt

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction &
Sexual Abuse >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:29:37 -0500 > >>Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction >>based on illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and >>the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its >>straightforward human nature. Not rocket science.< > >On the Streets, or on COPS? >On the streets or in articles that accuse drug users of some >horrific behavior or other? >On the streets or in books/magazines/radio/films/television >propaganda (as you allude to in your first paragraph Lee)? >How much drug crime do I myself really encounter personally, how >much do I see face to face, and how much is described to me, or >shown to me by others in whose interest it is to portray drug users >in the very worst light? >Here’s an example of the “drug crime” we’re “shown” and why I think >we’re shown such “criminal” figures: >—– > >http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm > >excerpted from Treatment or Jail- is this Really a Choice? >by Preston Peet (published in “Everything You Know is Wrong- the >Disinformation Guide to Secrets and Lies”) > >snip- > >With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new >business and means of control that can be instituted without giving >up the profits currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs
>industries. When announcing his resignation as head of the White >House
Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug >Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of war terminology in the >fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when discussing the >situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when >discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for >such a stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement >involvement in waging the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” >on July 24, 2001, to join the board of directors at DrugAbuse
>Sciences Inc., “the world’s first pharmaceutical company worldwide >devoted solely to developing medications for the treatment of >addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment is now >explained. > > “DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference > >in
the health of Americans through its understanding of treatment >and its broad portfolio of new medications under development,” >asserted the retired general. “They have created a company >consisting of the leading medical researchers, clinicians and most >exciting new product candidates. This combination offers the promise >of developing highly effective medical treatment options for >addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our country over >100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is odd, as >McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year 52,000 >Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal
>costs of drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per >year.”[11] > > Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and >profitable) anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of > >prohibitionist
Drug Warriors since President Nixon first uttered his >declaration of a War on Drugs in 1968. As related by author Dan >Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson Institute estimated that New >York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were responsible for a whopping >$1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than the total amount of >crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime are inseparable >companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a speech >on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie] steals >to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in >crime.’ Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and >raised him. ‘The total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is >around $10 billion to $15 billion,’ he said. > > “In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in
>the US in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the >previous year). That includes everything except cars, which junkies > >don’t
usually steal because they can’t easily fence them, and >embezzlement, which isn’t a junkie crime. The combined value of >everything swiped in burglaries, robberies, and muggings, everything >shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or boosted from a >warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s >War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as >fifteen times the value of everything stolen in the United >States.”[12] As the original fallacious numbers bandied about by >prohibitionists convinced the nation to support mass-jailing of
>druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced treatment today. > > >snip-
> >9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001
><www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123> > >10. Ibid. > >11.
McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000. > >12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics >of Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70. >snip- >—– > >>Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual >>abuse to pass judgment that there is nothing in common or that it >>is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to >>comprehend the experience of an addict?< > >I feel such a contrary guy lately- and I apologize for grating on >anyone’s nerves but I’m feeling outspoken- but I’m not sure I agree >entirely here either Lee. I can sympathize with victims of any crime
>or assault, but can’t really “know” what they’re going through or >have
gone through without experiencing it. Having been assaulted in >jail (and having gone through a couple of other not-so-nice >experiences of a sexual nature over time), I can honestly say I >don’t see much similarity whatsoever between sexual abuse and drug >use. So while yes, they can both be sucky as heck (but drug use >certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to >bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no >negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, >to me- in most ways. The ONLY way I relate them myself is that I am
>not quite so open about having been sexually assaulted in most civil >company, nor would I discuss my shooting up drugs days in most civil >company either. Yes, both are descriminated against in many ways, >but >I’m
not entirely sure it’s the same sort of things. Similar I >suppose, but not the same. In my mind, the only one I really know. > >>When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look >>outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination >>(including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there >>will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved.< > >As I’m often fond of saying, I myself do not descriminate against >anyone for NOT taking drugs, so I expect the same consideration from >them for any drug use or even abuse I may have ever engaged in in my >years. But I am not sure I see the equation quite as clearly here as >you Lee. > > >Peace and love, >Preston > >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is >often mistaken for madness” >Richard Davenport-Hines > > >—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert >To: Ibogaine List >Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:29 AM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse > > >Dear List, > >If >I
were to draw a parallel between sexually abused people and drug >addiction it is this: > >Both are broken down by their experiences to the point where they >see themselves as a piece of shit. In this state it is ludicrous to
>talk about standing up for one rights in the face of endless >propaganda
which preaches that the addiction condition is a >reflection of the worthlessness of the individual or that the >sexually abused in reality asked for it (rape for instance). (Not to >mention just trying to get through the day.) Why? Because in this >state of mind one tends to somewhere agree with the propaganda and >it is dam difficult to argue against that in public when at some >level you believe it yourself unless you are in some kind of process >of healing. (Apart from that just getting through the day is hard >enough. The idea of politically active addicts is bordering on a >luxury condition for most addicts I would imagine.) >
>Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction >based >on
illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and >the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its >straightforward human nature. Not rocket science. > >What I find sad & discriminatory in a way with the discussion of >drug addiction on this list is the lack of awareness of the >similarities between what the addict suffers and what others such as >the sexually abused have suffered. Its a somewhat insular viewpoint, >i.e., the idea that if you have never been a drug addict you cannot >make an important contribution based on your own, albeit, other
>experiences. Its closed thinking. I find it quite possible to >perceive
what addicts have been through, and are going through, >based on my own experiences which left me feeling suicidal from time >to time and on my own without anyone in the world to care for me. >Yet, as I am not a member of the addict club in many ways my views >are not so relevant. That kind of narrow mindedness will get the >drug addiction community nowhere fast. > >I think as long as “drug addicts” put themselves on a separate >pedestal to the rest of us they will lack the collective support >they need to advance their position. It cannot be fought along the >lines of: I am an addict and I’ll tell you how it is but you don’t >tell me anything because you know jack shit! So if you are going to >help me do as I say, not as I do. > >I have spent 6 months reading this list and learning little by >little the issues and the problems surrounding drug addiction. What >has kept me hooked (in part) is the empathy I feel for the genuine >suffering I can identify with on this list. Yet, how many on this >list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgement >that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the >comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the >experience of an addict? (Indeed I am only taking one example – >there are others, victims of war,…). If you need proof of what I >am saying maybe I can sit down and write about a day in the life of >an addict beginning with: Woke up this morning feeling like shit. I >can’t get out of bed as it hurts to be awake but I have no choice.. >Oh, sorry, for a second I thought I was reminiscing. > >When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look >outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination >(including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there >will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved. > >Lee > > > > >Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine >over a six year period.
>www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html >Free copies of Amazing Grace >available
here for members of the media >/ librarians etc:
>www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html > > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: > >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 5:44:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow i never heard that before….every junkie i know including the one i use to be was in hell and only digging deeper by the hour…the only relief comes when you ahve the dope in your hand and finally shoot up only to realize that you only prolonged your meager existence by a few lauzy hours before that demon starts to whine and plead for the next shot—-i dont see any fun or excitment in this –or other drugs such as rock/meth/blow etc –<

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

(but drug use >certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to >bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no >negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, >
Wow i never heard that before….every junkie i know including the one i use to be was in hell and only digging deeper by the hour…the only relief comes when you ahve the dope in your hand and finally shoot up only to realize that you only prolonged your meager existence by a few lauzy hours before that demon starts to whine and plead for the next shot—-i dont see any fun or excitment in this –or other drugs such as rock/meth/blow etc —
Drug addiction can very well be compared to sexual abuse. Both have suffered extremely although in different ways ie the drug user by abondoing his soul/familly/self etc the victim of sexual abuse in loosing faith in others/in his own worth etc. However to know what the other person feels like you have to experience it your self. that said it is only feasible tht a victim of sexual abuse cannot fathom the pain in a drug addict but both tread on the same path–the only solution and by no means simple is to look back and resolve it
Regards
matt

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:29:37 -0500 > >>Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction >>based on illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and >>the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its >>straightforward human nature. Not rocket science.< > >On the Streets, or on COPS? >On the streets or in articles that accuse drug users of some >horrific behavior or other? >On the streets or in books/magazines/radio/films/television >propaganda (as you allude to in your first paragraph Lee)? >How much drug crime do I myself really encounter personally, how >much do I see face to face, and how much is described to me, or >shown to me by others in whose interest it is to portray drug users >in the very worst light? >Here’s an example of the “drug crime” we’re “shown” and why I think >we’re shown such “criminal” figures: >—– > >http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm > >excerpted from Treatment or Jail- is this Really a Choice? >by Preston Peet (published in “Everything You Know is Wrong- the >Disinformation Guide to Secrets and Lies”) > >snip- > >With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new >business and means of control that can be instituted without giving >up the profits currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs >industries. When announcing his resignation as head of the White >House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug >Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of war terminology in the >fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when discussing the >situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when >discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for >such a stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement >involvement in waging the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” >on July 24, 2001, to join the board of directors at DrugAbuse >Sciences Inc., “the world’s first pharmaceutical company worldwide >devoted solely to developing medications for the treatment of >addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment is now >explained. > >”DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference >in the health of Americans through its understanding of treatment >and its broad portfolio of new medications under development,” >asserted the retired general. “They have created a company >consisting of the leading medical researchers, clinicians and most >exciting new product candidates. This combination offers the promise >of developing highly effective medical treatment options for >addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our country over >100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is odd, as >McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year 52,000 >Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal >costs of drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per >year.”[11] > >Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and >profitable) anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of >prohibitionist Drug Warriors since President Nixon first uttered his >declaration of a War on Drugs in 1968. As related by author Dan >Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson Institute estimated that New >York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were responsible for a whopping >$1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than the total amount of >crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime are inseparable >companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a speech >on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie] steals >to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in >crime.’ Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and >raised him. ‘The total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is >around $10 billion to $15 billion,’ he said. > > “In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in >the US in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the >previous year). That includes everything except cars, which junkies >don’t usually steal because they can’t easily fence them, and >embezzlement, which isn’t a junkie crime. The combined value of >everything swiped in burglaries, robberies, and muggings, everything >shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or boosted from a >warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s >War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as >fifteen times the value of everything stolen in the United >States.”[12] As the original fallacious numbers bandied about by >prohibitionists convinced the nation to support mass-jailing of >druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced treatment today. > >snip- > >9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001 ><www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123> > >10. Ibid. > >11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000. > >12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics >of Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70. >snip- >—– > >>Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual >>abuse to pass judgment that there is nothing in common or that it >>is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to >>comprehend the experience of an addict?< > >I feel such a contrary guy lately- and I apologize for grating on >anyone’s nerves but I’m feeling outspoken- but I’m not sure I agree >entirely here either Lee. I can sympathize with victims of any crime >or assault, but can’t really “know” what they’re going through or >have gone through without experiencing it. Having been assaulted in >jail (and having gone through a couple of other not-so-nice >experiences of a sexual nature over time), I can honestly say I >don’t see much similarity whatsoever between sexual abuse and drug >use. So while yes, they can both be sucky as heck (but drug use >certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to >bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no >negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, >to me- in most ways. The ONLY way I relate them myself is that I am >not quite so open about having been sexually assaulted in most civil >company, nor would I discuss my shooting up drugs days in most civil >company either. Yes, both are descriminated against in many ways, >but I’m not entirely sure it’s the same sort of things. Similar I >suppose, but not the same. In my mind, the only one I really know. > >>When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look >>outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination >>(including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there >>will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved.< > >As I’m often fond of saying, I myself do not descriminate against >anyone for NOT taking drugs, so I expect the same consideration from >them for any drug use or even abuse I may have ever engaged in in my >years. But I am not sure I see the equation quite as clearly here as >you Lee. > > >Peace and love, >Preston > >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is >often mistaken for madness” >Richard Davenport-Hines > > >—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert >To: Ibogaine List >Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:29 AM >Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse > > >Dear List, > >If I were to draw a parallel between sexually abused people and drug >addiction it is this: > >Both are broken down by their experiences to the point where they >see themselves as a piece of shit. In this state it is ludicrous to >talk about standing up for one rights in the face of endless >propaganda which preaches that the addiction condition is a >reflection of the worthlessness of the individual or that the >sexually abused in reality asked for it (rape for instance). (Not to >mention just trying to get through the day.) Why? Because in this >state of mind one tends to somewhere agree with the propaganda and >it is dam difficult to argue against that in public when at some >level you believe it yourself unless you are in some kind of process >of healing. (Apart from that just getting through the day is hard >enough. The idea of politically active addicts is bordering on a >luxury condition for most addicts I would imagine.) > >Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction >based on illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and >the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its >straightforward human nature. Not rocket science. > >What I find sad & discriminatory in a way with the discussion of >drug addiction on this list is the lack of awareness of the >similarities between what the addict suffers and what others such as >the sexually abused have suffered. Its a somewhat insular viewpoint, >i.e., the idea that if you have never been a drug addict you cannot >make an important contribution based on your own, albeit, other >experiences. Its closed thinking. I find it quite possible to >perceive what addicts have been through, and are going through, >based on my own experiences which left me feeling suicidal from time >to time and on my own without anyone in the world to care for me. >Yet, as I am not a member of the addict club in many ways my views >are not so relevant. That kind of narrow mindedness will get the >drug addiction community nowhere fast. > >I think as long as “drug addicts” put themselves on a separate >pedestal to the rest of us they will lack the collective support >they need to advance their position. It cannot be fought along the >lines of: I am an addict and I’ll tell you how it is but you don’t >tell me anything because you know jack shit! So if you are going to >help me do as I say, not as I do. > >I have spent 6 months reading this list and learning little by >little the issues and the problems surrounding drug addiction. What >has kept me hooked (in part) is the empathy I feel for the genuine >suffering I can identify with on this list. Yet, how many on this >list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgement >that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the >comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the >experience of an addict? (Indeed I am only taking one example – >there are others, victims of war,…). If you need proof of what I >am saying maybe I can sit down and write about a day in the life of >an addict beginning with: Woke up this morning feeling like shit. I >can’t get out of bed as it hurts to be awake but I have no choice.. >Oh, sorry, for a second I thought I was reminiscing. > >When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look >outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination >(including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there >will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved. > >Lee > > > > >Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine >over a six year period. >www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html >Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media >/ librarians etc: >www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html > > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > >\]=———————————————————————=[/ > >

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 5:18:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(but drug use >certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to >bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no >negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, >
Wow i never heard that before….every junkie i know including the one i use to be was in hell and only digging deeper by the hour…the only relief comes when you ahve the dope in your hand and finally shoot up only to realize that you only prolonged your meager existence by a few lauzy hours before that demon starts to whine and plead for the next shot—-i dont see any fun or excitment in this –or other drugs such as rock/meth/blow etc —
Drug addiction can very well be compared to sexual abuse. Both have suffered extremely although in different ways ie the drug user by abondoing his soul/familly/self etc the victim of sexual abuse in loosing faith in others/in his own worth etc. However to know what the other person feels like you have to experience it your self. that said it is only feasible tht a victim of sexual abuse cannot fathom the pain in a drug addict but both tread on the same path–the only solution and by no means simple is to look back and resolve it
Regards
matt

>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:29:37 -0500 > >>Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction >>based on illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and >>the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its >>straightforward human nature. Not rocket science.< > >On the Streets, or on COPS? >On the streets or in articles that accuse drug users of some >horrific behavior or other? >On the streets or in books/magazines/radio/films/television >propaganda (as you allude to in your first paragraph Lee)? >How much drug crime do I myself really encounter personally, how >much do I see face to face, and how much is described to me, or >shown to me by others in whose interest it is to portray drug users >in the very worst light? >Here’s an example of the “drug crime” we’re “shown” and why I think >we’re shown such “criminal” figures: >—– > >http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm > >excerpted from Treatment or Jail- is this Really a Choice? >by Preston Peet (published in “Everything You Know is Wrong- the >Disinformation Guide to Secrets and Lies”) > >snip- > >With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new >business and means of control that can be instituted without giving >up the profits currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs >industries. When announcing his resignation as head of the White >House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug >Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of war terminology in the >fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when discussing the >situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when >discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for >such a stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement >involvement in waging the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” >on July 24, 2001, to join the board of directors at DrugAbuse >Sciences Inc., “the world’s first pharmaceutical company worldwide >devoted solely to developing medications for the treatment of >addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment is now >explained. > >”DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference >in the health of Americans through its understanding of treatment >and its broad portfolio of new medications under development,” >asserted the retired general. “They have created a company >consisting of the leading medical researchers, clinicians and most >exciting new product candidates. This combination offers the promise >of developing highly effective medical treatment options for >addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our country over >100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is odd, as >McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year 52,000 >Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal >costs of drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per >year.”[11] > >Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and >profitable) anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of >prohibitionist Drug Warriors since President Nixon first uttered his >declaration of a War on Drugs in 1968. As related by author Dan >Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson Institute estimated that New >York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were responsible for a whopping >$1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than the total amount of >crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime are inseparable >companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a speech >on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie] steals >to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in >crime.’ Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and >raised him. ‘The total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is >around $10 billion to $15 billion,’ he said. > > “In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in >the US in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the >previous year). That includes everything except cars, which junkies >don’t usually steal because they can’t easily fence them, and >embezzlement, which isn’t a junkie crime. The combined value of >everything swiped in burglaries, robberies, and muggings, everything >shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or boosted from a >warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s >War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as >fifteen times the value of everything stolen in the United >States.”[12] As the original fallacious numbers bandied about by >prohibitionists convinced the nation to support mass-jailing of >druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced treatment today. > >snip- > >9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001 ><www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123> > >10. Ibid. > >11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000. > >12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics >of Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70. >snip- >—– > >>Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual >>abuse to pass judgment that there is nothing in common or that it >>is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to >>comprehend the experience of an addict?< > >I feel such a contrary guy lately- and I apologize for grating on >anyone’s nerves but I’m feeling outspoken- but I’m not sure I agree >entirely here either Lee. I can sympathize with victims of any crime >or assault, but can’t really “know” what they’re going through or >have gone through without experiencing it. Having been assaulted in >jail (and having gone through a couple of other not-so-nice >experiences of a sexual nature over time), I can honestly say I >don’t see much similarity whatsoever between sexual abuse and drug >use. So while yes, they can both be sucky as heck (but drug use >certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to >bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no >negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, >to me- in most ways. The ONLY way I relate them myself is that I am >not quite so open about having been sexually assaulted in most civil >company, nor would I discuss my shooting up drugs days in most civil >company either. Yes, both are descriminated against in many ways, >but I’m not entirely sure it’s the same sort of things. Similar I >suppose, but not the same. In my mind, the only one I really know. > >>When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look >>outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination >>(including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there >>will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved.< > >As I’m often fond of saying, I myself do not descriminate against >anyone for NOT taking drugs, so I expect the same consideration from >them for any drug use or even abuse I may have ever engaged in in my >years. But I am not sure I see the equation quite as clearly here as >you Lee. > > >Peace and love, >Preston > >”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is >often mistaken for madness” >Richard Davenport-Hines > > >—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert >To: Ibogaine List >Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:29 AM >Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse > > >Dear List, > >If I were to draw a parallel between sexually abused people and drug >addiction it is this: > >Both are broken down by their experiences to the point where they >see themselves as a piece of shit. In this state it is ludicrous to >talk about standing up for one rights in the face of endless >propaganda which preaches that the addiction condition is a >reflection of the worthlessness of the individual or that the >sexually abused in reality asked for it (rape for instance). (Not to >mention just trying to get through the day.) Why? Because in this >state of mind one tends to somewhere agree with the propaganda and >it is dam difficult to argue against that in public when at some >level you believe it yourself unless you are in some kind of process >of healing. (Apart from that just getting through the day is hard >enough. The idea of politically active addicts is bordering on a >luxury condition for most addicts I would imagine.) > >Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction >based on illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and >the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its >straightforward human nature. Not rocket science. > >What I find sad & discriminatory in a way with the discussion of >drug addiction on this list is the lack of awareness of the >similarities between what the addict suffers and what others such as >the sexually abused have suffered. Its a somewhat insular viewpoint, >i.e., the idea that if you have never been a drug addict you cannot >make an important contribution based on your own, albeit, other >experiences. Its closed thinking. I find it quite possible to >perceive what addicts have been through, and are going through, >based on my own experiences which left me feeling suicidal from time >to time and on my own without anyone in the world to care for me. >Yet, as I am not a member of the addict club in many ways my views >are not so relevant. That kind of narrow mindedness will get the >drug addiction community nowhere fast. > >I think as long as “drug addicts” put themselves on a separate >pedestal to the rest of us they will lack the collective support >they need to advance their position. It cannot be fought along the >lines of: I am an addict and I’ll tell you how it is but you don’t >tell me anything because you know jack shit! So if you are going to >help me do as I say, not as I do. > >I have spent 6 months reading this list and learning little by >little the issues and the problems surrounding drug addiction. What >has kept me hooked (in part) is the empathy I feel for the genuine >suffering I can identify with on this list. Yet, how many on this >list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgement >that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the >comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the >experience of an addict? (Indeed I am only taking one example – >there are others, victims of war,…). If you need proof of what I >am saying maybe I can sit down and write about a day in the life of >an addict beginning with: Woke up this morning feeling like shit. I >can’t get out of bed as it hurts to be awake but I have no choice.. >Oh, sorry, for a second I thought I was reminiscing. > >When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look >outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination >(including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there >will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved. > >Lee > > > > >Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine >over a six year period. >www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html >Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media >/ librarians etc: >www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html > > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > >\]=———————————————————————=[/ > >

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] question for new yorkers…
Date: February 18, 2005 at 4:28:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

having been living in Paris in 1984 when Christo wrapped the Pont Neuf, I was very skeptical when I first heard about it, but when I saw the finished product, I was enrapt, if you’ll excuse the pun.
I haven’t yet seen it, but I want to. I think it’s probably really cool in person, 23 miles of these things all over Central Park, in February? That’s gotta look pretty cool Jon.
Whether it’s “art” or not? Hmmm.
;-0))

(Plus, the artists paid for it themselves, not we the taxpayers- imagine that. and I myself liked many of their other projects too, like wrapping the islands off Florida, that one was neat too, in my own opinion.)

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] question for new yorkers…

ok, so i know a lot of you out there are from nyc, and i wanted to get yer
opinion on something before i get there in a couple days…

i wanna know what you think of that gates of ny thing in central park…

is it art, or is it stupid?

i’m curious what the natives think.

without having yet seen it, i have to say i’m leaning towards the latter…

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 4:00:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Best to you and may it go well for you and all involved.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer

Re: sending a prayer.I will be in session tomorrow,thats saturday around noon est, please send good vibes my way,love shell

knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/911/_images/candle_kid.jpg

— “m.finman” wrote:
Kindly,
Knowing the power of prayer, I would request any
who will. Someone near and very dear to me is
currently in session. I feel collective prayer is
like poetry in motion. I appreciate your light.

Martee

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/bmp name=insideheart.bmp

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:57:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But you’re not talking about this so much, it seems,
you’re saying that no one else can speak for you so I can’t use the word
“You” in communications. Is this it?<

No Nick, what I’m saying is that YOU cannot speak for anyone but YOU really, in terms of what YOU feel and how YOU think- and that it’s something I try to keep in mind when I myself am speaking and writing (which is why I constantly add thinks like, “as I myself,” and “I think” and such things).

that you have to be
responsible for your belief systems, that you are not involved in
self-sabotage. To communicate this I need to use the word “You.”<

I’m just not convinced this is true Nick- it may be for you, and it may even be true for me, but I can’t know it’s true for everyone- but I just realized this is getting a bit silly and I’m starting to get really nit-picky.

Specifically, in this situation, YOU are putting out, it seems to me, that
the forces arrayed against addicts are so powerful, especially the legal
position of heroin, that it makes it effectively impossible for them to take
a useful stance THEMSELVES against the prejudice they experience from
government and society. And that, presumably, they thus have to wait for
OTHERS to improve the position for them. Essentially, that nothing can
change until non-addicts do something.<

WHAT? LOL, that’s so entirely opposite of what I preach and practice I can’t even believe you just wrote this Nick- my entire being these days is geared to towards illustrating that people who have been known to take drugs, like me, are not automatically to be considered subhuman or incapable of being loved or holding jobs and respectable positions in society and positions in their families, etc. I take what is basically legal heroin for my extremely serious physical pain Nick, and I sit here and work for hours upon hours every day, and go out and meet with friends and associates, I carry on intelligent and not-so-intelligent conversations and debates, I eat and sleep and make love and have a healthy relationship. What in the world do you think I’m doing with DrugWar.com and all my other writings Nick? Letting someone else write them for me?

What I am pointing out is that adopting this victim position is not
conducive to getting anything meaningful done. There are problems, yes; it
is difficult, yes; but the issues are most definitely NOT insurmountable, in
my opinion.<

Who is adopting a victim position? Could you point out where anyone did that please?
To reiterate quickly, because this is the “ibogaine at mindvox” list, I’ve taken ibogaine twice now, and got a lot out of it. I’d like to take it again, in the not-so-distant future. I may even want to again at some point in time in the future too. I think it is an extremely useful and beneficial tool to use in detoxing people, and for giving people insights about themselves and the universe around them that they might not obtain without taking it, or at least, might not think of without taking it. I would have it available upon request for those who desire to use it for whatever their reason- within some sensible limitations derived from strictly health reasons. Having put myself through hell more than once because I was unable to quit abusing myself by abusing hard drugs I am one hundred percent suportive of ibogaine being legalized, as it sure did make unspringing the most interesting learning experience I could have ever imagined- and I’da still fallen short had I tried to imagine it, and believe me, I did try beforehand, a lot more than once. But I am also entirely unable to find it in myself to force anyone to take ibogaine or any other “treatment” for drug “addiction” as I feel that in my case, nothing is effective without the desire for change, nor has coerced anything ever done anything for me that was beneficial at all, ever (weeeellllll, there are ALWAYS exceptions, as in “school” which sure did give me a lot of food for thought over the years, and there were many, many times I did not want to go, sooo…I’m going to simply stop here).
I think this is a great example of the fact that there are not simple answers in this or any area.
We are still so early in the whole “drugs causes evil and addiction” phase of our society, that one hundred years of a “war” is not nearly enough time to really learn many answers about what drives people to behave in addictive fashion, especially since there have been so very many lies and so much misinformation spread about drugs and users in the same time. I wish I knew why I felt so much better when using this or that drug Nick. I wish I knew why I react the way I do when others react differently. I wish I knew one hundred percent whether I have a disease or simply a brain imbalance or an immaturity or what (and this is completely beyond the whole pain thing- in this case, I do have such pain that when the substitute doctor sitting in for my own doc yesterday told me she’d hesitate to put me on opiates because she feels docs “create addicts” I wanted to laugh out loud and ask her- “so you’d rather I stretch and excercise and bite the bullet deal with the pain without opiates because you don’t want me addicted to the one thing that gives me relief and allows me to work all day every day? Get REAL!” But I didn’t). Because I do have trouble keeping my use down- it’s a daily struggle to not give in to the “I want MORE” feelings- but I do struggle with it and it’s builds character in me Nick, makes me stronger for it.
Ok I blah, blah blah here. I gotta do some real work now, geez.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 18 February 2005 04:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick wrote >If you do then you get what happens, and you’re confimed to a
lifetime of blaming others. What pro-addiction forces want is for you to
believe that the position is hopeless, that the forces mounted against you
are too much to be overwhelmed. If you believe that then it’s
pretty hard to
move on anything. You always have a choice. If you don’t believe
that, take
the choice to dump your belief systems. You have the choice what you
believe.<

Nick, a personal gripe with me, one of the main things I did
actually pick
up and continue to concsciously use from my first 28 day program,
to try and
stop smoking crack back in the mid 80s, was to personalize
things. Sitting
in this one particular group, day after day, I and most of the
others would
get so frustrated, because while we’d be trying to speak and describe our
feelings (not what we “thought” but what we “felt”- a common excercise in
acting classes too I’ve since discovered), but would constantly be
inturrupted by the counselor, who would say, “personalize. I, I,
I, not You.
I can only speak for me, no one else can do that.” And every
single time I
read one of your notes, telling me how what’s arrayed against ME,
and what
is hopeless for me, and what choices I have, I get the feeling that the
person you are really talking to is You. Whether you actually
realize it or
not.
So please, do try and stop telling me (and please don’t try
to take the
“but I’m speaking all inclusively in general terms” cop out) things you
haven’t any clue about- speak for yourself. Who is allied against
YOU? What
do YOU believe and what effects has it had on YOU, and what did YOU Learn
about YOU, since it couldn’t possibly have taught you much about
ME and how
I’d react or how I’M feeling or the consequences for ME as a
result of what
YOU learned- I don’t think anyway.

Hey Preston,

For sure, you’re sitting in a circle with a bunch of guys and girls and some
of them are reluctant of using the word “I” because it’s easier for them to
discuss their feelings more in the 3rd person. When they start to
personalize they start to feel and therapists like to make you do this, it’s
part of their job. But you’re not talking about this so much, it seems,
you’re saying that no one else can speak for you so I can’t use the word
“You” in communications. Is this it?

So….using this, let me rephrase

What pro-addiction forces want is for me to
believe that the position is hopeless, that the forces mounted against me
are too much to be overwhelmed. If I believe that then it’s
pretty hard to
move on anything. I always have a choice. If I don’t believe
that, take
the choice to dump my belief systems. I have the choice what I
believe.”

Well, that’s also fine with me. But what I’m trying to communicate is what I
believe to be a General truth to this situation – that you have to be
responsible for your belief systems, that you are not involved in
self-sabotage. To communicate this I need to use the word “You.”

Personalize please. I know what I have in terms of choices
Nick-

OK, I would be interested to hear what you have in terms of choices, if you
would like to tell me.

what do
YOU have? Do YOU have a choice in what you believe (I ask, not tell)?

Yes, I do. I align my beliefs with what I want. If I want something, I
recognize that it’s not helpful to believe that I can’t get it.
Specifically, in this situation, YOU are putting out, it seems to me, that
the forces arrayed against addicts are so powerful, especially the legal
position of heroin, that it makes it effectively impossible for them to take
a useful stance THEMSELVES against the prejudice they experience from
government and society. And that, presumably, they thus have to wait for
OTHERS to improve the position for them. Essentially, that nothing can
change until non-addicts do something.

So, is this OK? I am using the word YOU because I want to address these
comments to you.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick/history of addiction
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:31:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Telling addicts that its a high-strength painkiller is hardly startling news to most of us.<

LOL, well, that’s a good point Allison and well taken.

Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:24 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick/history of addiction

Point taken. It’s very true. For some people they are so overwhelmed by feelings on a daily basis that they actually need a form of sedation just to be functional. My thing is that it is socially useful to understand a drug in terms of its action. This is why I push for heroin addicts to recognize that their drug is a high-strength painkiller. It demystifies it, both for addict and fearing public. Once you start to take out the fear then the real issues with heroin can become clearer and be more usefully addressed.

I can’t agree with your statement about needing a form of sedation to be functional or being overwhelmed by feelings on a daily basis. I also don’t think there is any mystery involved with addicts other than all the usual life questions or the recovery solution. Tis amazing what we can learn about drugs, how to get them, adapt them, use them even if we don’t want to learn other things. Telling addicts that its a high-strength painkiller is hardly startling news to most of us. Allison

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:29:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Also, I would add that peoples prejudice towards drug addiction based on illegal drugs is due to what they see in the streets and the resultant crime due to the need to pay for the fix. Its straightforward human nature. Not rocket science.<

On the Streets, or on COPS?
On the streets or in articles that accuse drug users of some horrific behavior or other?
On the streets or in books/magazines/radio/films/television propaganda (as you allude to in your first paragraph Lee)?
How much drug crime do I myself really encounter personally, how much do I see face to face, and how much is described to me, or shown to me by others in whose interest it is to portray drug users in the very worst light?
Here’s an example of the “drug crime” we’re “shown” and why I think we’re shown such “criminal” figures:
—–

http://www.drugwar.com/ptreatjail.shtm

excerpted from Treatment or Jail- is this Really a Choice?
by Preston Peet (published in “Everything You Know is Wrong- the Disinformation Guide to Secrets and Lies”)

snip-

With the new push for drug treatment, there comes a lucrative new business and means of control that can be instituted without giving up the profits currently pulled in by the War on Some Drugs industries. When announcing his resignation as head of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), then-US Drug Czar Gen. Barry McCaffrey bemoaned the use of war terminology in the fight against drug use, saying that perhaps when discussing the situation in the Andes, “war” is an apt term, but not when discussing efforts in US cities. This might seem an odd stance for such a stalwart proponent of US military and law enforcement involvement in waging the War on Some Drugs, but McCaffrey “agreed” on July 24, 2001, to join the board of directors at DrugAbuse Sciences Inc., “the world’s first pharmaceutical company worldwide devoted solely to developing medications for the treatment of addiction.”[9] McCaffrey’s newfound love of treatment is now explained.

“DrugAbuse Sciences has the potential to make a historic difference in the health of Americans through its understanding of treatment and its broad portfolio of new medications under development,” asserted the retired general. “They have created a company consisting of the leading medical researchers, clinicians and most exciting new product candidates. This combination offers the promise of developing highly effective medical treatment options for addictions. Addiction is a disease that costs our country over 100,000 lives and over $250 billion per year.”[10] Which is odd, as McCaffrey said only the year before, in July 2000: “Each year 52,000 Americans die from drug-related causes. The additional societal costs of drug use to the nation total over $110 billion per year.”[11]

Spouting spurious numbers to promote and justify repressive (and profitable) anti-drug policies has been a favorite ploy of prohibitionist Drug Warriors since President Nixon first uttered his declaration of a War on Drugs in 1968. As related by author Dan Baum, by 1972, “The conservative Hudson Institute estimated that New York City’s 250,000 heroin addicts were responsible for a whopping $1.7 billion in crime, which was well more than the total amount of crime in the NATION. ‘Narcotics addiction and crime are inseparable companions,’ said presidential candidate George McGovern in a speech on the Senate floor. ‘In 98 percent of the cases [the junkie] steals to pay the pusher…that translates into about $4.4 billion in crime.’ Senator Charles Percy of Illinois saw McGovern’s bid and raised him. ‘The total cost of drug-related crime in the US today is around $10 billion to $15 billion,’ he said.

“In fact, only $1.28 billion worth of property was stolen in the US in 1972, (the figure had actually fallen slightly from the previous year). That includes everything except cars, which junkies don’t usually steal because they can’t easily fence them, and embezzlement, which isn’t a junkie crime. The combined value of everything swiped in burglaries, robberies, and muggings, everything shoplifted, filched off the back of a truck, or boosted from a warehouse was $1.28 billion. Yet during the heroin panic of Nixon’s War on Drugs, junkies would be blamed for stealing as much as fifteen times the value of everything stolen in the United States.”[12] As the original fallacious numbers bandied about by prohibitionists convinced the nation to support mass-jailing of druggies, so too do they steer us toward coerced treatment today.

snip-

9. DrugAbuse Sciences, Inc. Press release. 24 July 2001 <www.drugabusesciences.com/Articles.asp?entry=123>

10. Ibid.

11. McCaffrey, Barry. Letter to Los Angeles Times 14 July 2000.

12. Baum, Dan. Smoke and Mirrors: The War on Drugs and the Politics of Failure. New York: Little, Brown and Company, 1996: 69-70.
snip-
—–

Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgment that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the experience of an addict?<

I feel such a contrary guy lately- and I apologize for grating on anyone’s nerves but I’m feeling outspoken- but I’m not sure I agree entirely here either Lee. I can sympathize with victims of any crime or assault, but can’t really “know” what they’re going through or have gone through without experiencing it. Having been assaulted in jail (and having gone through a couple of other not-so-nice experiences of a sexual nature over time), I can honestly say I don’t see much similarity whatsoever between sexual abuse and drug use. So while yes, they can both be sucky as heck (but drug use certainly is NOT always sucky- as a matter of fact I’d be willing to bet TONS of money that most drug use is fun with little to no negative consequences at all), they are different as day and night, to me- in most ways. The ONLY way I relate them myself is that I am not quite so open about having been sexually assaulted in most civil company, nor would I discuss my shooting up drugs days in most civil company either. Yes, both are descriminated against in many ways, but I’m not entirely sure it’s the same sort of things. Similar I suppose, but not the same. In my mind, the only one I really know.

When we start to see our commonality across the board (and look outside our politically correct box) in all areas of discrimination (including addicts towards non-addicts) and suffering maybe there will be a better chance to do something for everyone involved.<

As I’m often fond of saying, I myself do not descriminate against anyone for NOT taking drugs, so I expect the same consideration from them for any drug use or even abuse I may have ever engaged in in my years. But I am not sure I see the equation quite as clearly here as you Lee.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: Ibogaine List
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:29 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

Dear List,

If I were to draw a parallel between sexually abused people and drug addiction it is this:

Both are broken down by their experiences to the point where they see themselves as a piece of shit. In this state it is ludicrous to talk about standing up for one rights in the face of endless propaganda which preaches that the addiction condition is a reflection of the worthlessness of the individual or that the sexually abused in reality asked for it (rape for instance). (Not to mention just trying to get through the day.) Why? Because in this state of mind one tends to somewhere agree with the propaganda and it is dam difficult to argue against that in public when at some level you believe it yourself unless you are in some kind of process of healing. (Apart from that just getting through the day is hard enough. The idea of politically active addicts is bordering on a luxury condition for most addicts I would imagine.)

What I find sad & discriminatory in a way with the discussion of drug addiction on this list is the lack of awareness of the similarities between what the addict suffers and what others such as the sexually abused have suffered. Its a somewhat insular viewpoint, i.e., the idea that if you have never been a drug addict you cannot make an important contribution based on your own, albeit, other experiences. Its closed thinking. I find it quite possible to perceive what addicts have been through, and are going through, based on my own experiences which left me feeling suicidal from time to time and on my own without anyone in the world to care for me. Yet, as I am not a member of the addict club in many ways my views are not so relevant. That kind of narrow mindedness will get the drug addiction community nowhere fast.

I think as long as “drug addicts” put themselves on a separate pedestal to the rest of us they will lack the collective support they need to advance their position. It cannot be fought along the lines of: I am an addict and I’ll tell you how it is but you don’t tell me anything because you know jack shit! So if you are going to help me do as I say, not as I do.

I have spent 6 months reading this list and learning little by little the issues and the problems surrounding drug addiction. What has kept me hooked (in part) is the empathy I feel for the genuine suffering I can identify with on this list. Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgement that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the experience of an addict? (Indeed I am only taking one example – there are others, victims of war,…). If you need proof of what I am saying maybe I can sit down and write about a day in the life of an addict beginning with: Woke up this morning feeling like shit. I can’t get out of bed as it hurts to be awake but I have no choice.. Oh, sorry, for a second I thought I was reminiscing.

Lee

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibo for bupe
Date: February 18, 2005 at 2:35:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Donna,

That’s fine, take it easy until then and enjoy your family gathering.

Love,

Sara

Van: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]  Verzonden: vrijdag 18 februari 2005 19:44 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo for bupe

Hi Sara

I am not going to be able to come over to Holland this weekend, I was planning to come today, but I am going on a family holiday tomorrow and did not get everything done, I hope you are well and I look forward to meeting you soon.

Love Donnaxx

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] question for new yorkers…
Date: February 18, 2005 at 2:04:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok, so i know a lot of you out there are from nyc, and i wanted to get yer
opinion on something before i get there in a couple days…

i wanna know what you think of that gates of ny thing in central park…

is it art, or is it stupid?

i’m curious what the natives think.

without having yet seen it, i have to say i’m leaning towards the latter…

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Provider’s Charter- huzzah
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:55:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee and the list:

The provider’s charter is a great idea,and I would love to see what you
come up with. I have had problems getting to trust and honesty with my
opiate addicted clients. And tweakers are usually so mentally shredded
that the phrase “fully informed” becomes black humor. PCP victims can be
irretrievably brain damaged from their “free will” choices only days or
hours before. The dread of dope sickness and unassisted withdrawal makes
these wonderful people say whatever they think I would like to hear, and
save stashes nearby to re-medicate, “just in case”.

The downside of a fraudulent agreement for the provider here in the
States, or anywhere with a drug cartel owned judicial system, is way too
heavy to be worth the low income and long hours of attention. Charters,
Contracts, Rights, and other terms of conscious agreement between adults
imply a two way permissive verbal contract. At what point is any agreement
void due to one party to it being out of their heads in fear and pain?
Coercion, destraint, confession thru torture,etc., these are legal
concepts long established as invalidating contracts.

It’s great to be in favor of the user’s rights and respect their free
will, but we are discussing physical medicinal effects that push the
identity and will all over the map at different points in the journey.
What’s “free” and whose “will” is involved for this experience and
agreement to facilitate it? Things are a little different here than just
choosing a bistro menu item for the provider to provide.

Let’s see how you frame the charter, Lee. And thank you for your eloquence
and insight adding to these discussions, thus far.

Dr. Tom

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibo for bupe
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:44:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara

Love Donnaxx

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:35:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To the topic of ibogaine, I just was thinking about something
triggered in my mind by Cohen’s query re the magickal aura ascribed to
the plant. That its process is akin to an exorcism. Whatever that
means.

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:32:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee
Im sending calm soothing thoughts and praying for your friend, wish her love and light

love donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:24:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi allison

Thanks for that, I still want to do the ibo but doing this with the meth might be an option for me untill i can arrange a session with an experienced provider.

thanks once again for the advice love donna

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:03:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You Wrote :
“”todays satanists are people who have deep psycological problems that dont really have to do with the devil—that doesnt mean there are people who are possesd by evil forces but in genearal its all rebeliion etc””

#At least this is what they believe. LOL
So satanists are just people with psycological problems ?? I wish it will be that easy.
God Bless
Francis

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:07:06 -0800 (PST) > >As far as I understand it, the occult and Satanism are >separate, distinct things. “Occult” means ‘hidden >knowledge’, not ‘devil worship’; Satanism is a >religion which chooses to deify Lucifer. > >That being said, I agree with the other poster who >said that if you deal with dark energies (either >external or internal, and quite possibly the same) >eventually you pay the piper… > >Julie > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > \]=———————————————————————=[/ > >

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:44:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Exactly its unreal you can go up as much as u want –i know a person who only used tylenol 3 and percocet and now hes on 220 mg —can u belive it —-and he started to go up because he was getting high and the ignorant doctor just kept going up and up….unreal
Regards
matt

>From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction? >Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 04:58:01 +1300 (New Zealand Daylight Time) > >Hi Matt,. I think thats the general idea with Methadone. It goes on and on >like the never ending story. I was talking about doing over a few days to >ease withdrawals like Martee was talking about. Not the way the system >works which is to stick you on the program, hope you shut & cause no trouble >and then forget about you or if you do winge give you another few mgs. >Allison > >——-Original Message——- > >From: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Date: Saturday, 19 February 2005 3:57:41 a.m. >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction? > >I was on methadone for a few years..jumping from a 100mg to 20 back to 50 >etc….Although i heard poistive reports of methadone patients i personaly >havent met any one who tapered themselves from it withou using other poisons > Without eboga i would never quit because the lowest i got was 5mg but that >was pure hell so i started using benzos to sleep and eventually relapsed to >heroin/opiates then back on meth and i repeated that process a thousand >times it seems…It really irrates me when meth doctors dont explain that >this process can and usully will last a lifetime >Regards >Matt > > > > > > > > >From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz> >Reply-To: >ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] >Drug rehab: is it just another addiction? >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 21:41:40 >+1300 (New Zealand Daylight Time) > >Hi donna. I too used Methadone like >Martee talked about. I did 30-35mgs >first and then dropped over 3 days >which didn’t bother the system much but >found that the last few mgs were >the hardest and the longer you hang on to >the methadone the harder it is to >break. I can’t decided if the last bit >was a mental crutch or physical or a >bit of both. Perhaps Martee can >provide that info. It does help cleaning up >but doesn’t solve the problem >of staying clean which apparently ibogaine >can provide. At least it might >give you some space to think of alternatives >and get your head around >cleaning up without hiding under the duvet feeling >like shit which is what I >got used to doing. Good luck and best wishes. >Allison > >——-Original Message——- > >From: ibogaine@mindvox.com > >Date: Friday, 18 February 2005 3:04:35 a.m. >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com > >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction? > >Hi >Martee > >I did not know you could do that with the meth, I always thought I >would >have to wean myself off the meth!!! which is worse than coming off >the >gear!!!!. I have not ruled the ibogaine out& would love to do it that >way, >i’ll keep you posted > >love donna > > > > >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now >and get the first two months FREE* >

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:40:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie
Wow are you serious that long in your system eh–well that tells us everything…i would agree that heroin maintaince would be better although it still doesnt solve anyting…
Regards
Matt

>From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction? >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:13:05 -0800 (PST) > >Matthew, > >What you say is absolutely true- I also do not know >one single person who managed to kick methadone >without chipping either heroin or pills. detoxing >from methadone is simply too hard.. > >BTW, I used morphine sulphate for two weeks prior to >my second Ibo session, in an attempt to make the whole >process somewhat easier. Three weeks after my Ibo, >and 5 after my last methadone drink, my urinalysis >STIll tested positive for methadone! > >Heroin maintenance seems like such a better solution, >in my humble opinion… > >Julie > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > \]=———————————————————————=[/ > >

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:40:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Lee for your very good E-Mail.

You’ve made a very good point and I agree with all of it.
I was beated by my father almost on a daily base. When I said beated, I mean too.. knock out.I was living in his garden with the dog and feed in the same way .. and his went on for a year. One day, I prepared myself to fight back and just try to kill the son of a bich , infortunately he was stronger than me 🙁

To make a long story short, the man was evil or very sick.I don’t know and I am not even realy interested in knowing. Does ‘ nt bother me. This is karma. This was my karma too.I survive is treatment, and when I finaly manage to escape I survive one year in madagascar bush ( We where living there )

” Here and everywhere , they said what dosent kill you make you stronger. ” I am a true believer in this.He make me very strong and I forgive him.
Now he is dead ( he died in one of his terrible rage ) and I am alive.

If you have to make a sword you have to put the metal throught fire, then you have do the hardening process throught beating.
Then come the cold forging :the ridge and the edge line are made straight before finishing the body of the sword.( that was my part ) Then come the curving ( the change I had to make ) Then come the polishing , that the final touch 🙂

Pain is pain no matter who own it. It what you do with pain that matter.
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: Ibogaine List
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:29 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

Dear List,

If I were to draw a parallel between sexually abused people and drug addiction it is this:

I think as long as “drug addicts” put themselves on a separate pedestal to the rest of us they will lack the collective support they need to advance their position. It cannot be fought along the lines of: I am an addict and Ill tell you how it is but you dont tell me anything because you know jack shit! So if you are going to help me do as I say, not as I do.

I have spent 6 months reading this list and learning little by little the issues and the problems surrounding drug addiction. What has kept me hooked (in part) is the empathy I feel for the genuine suffering I can identify with on this list. Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgement that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the experience of an addict? (Indeed I am only taking one example there are others, victims of war,..). If you need proof of what I am saying maybe I can sit down and write about a day in the life of an addict beginning with: Woke up this morning feeling like shit. I cant get out of bed as it hurts to be awake but I have no choice. Oh, sorry, for a second I thought I was reminiscing.

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:38:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Right Julie :} And another thing those kids who say they worship the devil have no idea about deep esoteric knowledge ….they think that by dressing in black wearing upsidedown pentagrams and listening to black/death metal makes them satanists —it just makes them ignorant—-cause even though i belive that christianity is full of deceit and prejuduicehowver the symbol of the cross symbolises goodness love among other egyptian symbolic meanings but when u turn it upside down you are reaversing the whole energy so whats the point…..todays satanists are people who have deep psycological problems that dont really have to do with the devil—that doesnt mean there are people who are possesd by evil forces but in genearal its all rebeliion etc
Regards
matt

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:27:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Martee and Shelly,

Prayers for both you and yours and a vast, luminescent
purple energy field pulsating out from Toronto….

Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:13:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matthew,

What you say is absolutely true- I also do not know
one single person who managed to kick methadone
without chipping either heroin or pills. detoxing
from methadone is simply too hard..

BTW, I used morphine sulphate for two weeks prior to
my second Ibo session, in an attempt to make the whole
process somewhat easier. Three weeks after my Ibo,
and 5 after my last methadone drink, my urinalysis
STIll tested positive for methadone!

Heroin maintenance seems like such a better solution,
in my humble opinion…

Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 11:07:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As far as I understand it, the occult and Satanism are
separate, distinct things. “Occult” means ‘hidden
knowledge’, not ‘devil worship’; Satanism is a
religion which chooses to deify Lucifer.

That being said, I agree with the other poster who
said that if you deal with dark energies (either
external or internal, and quite possibly the same)
eventually you pay the piper…

Julie

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:58:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Matt,. I think thats the general idea with Methadone. It goes on and on like the never ending story. I was talking about doing over a few days to ease withdrawals like Martee was talking about. Not the way the system works which is to stick you on the program, hope you shut & cause no trouble and then forget about you or if you do winge give you another few mgs. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 19 February 2005 3:57:41 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

I was on methadone for a few years..jumping from a 100mg to 20 back to 50 etc….Although i heard poistive reports of methadone patients i personaly havent met any one who tapered themselves from it withou using other poisons. Without eboga i would never quit because the lowest i got was 5mg but that was pure hell so i started using benzos to sleep and eventually relapsed to heroin/opiates then back on meth and i repeated that process a thousand times it seems…It really irrates me when meth doctors dont explain that this process can and usully will last a lifetime
Regards
Matt

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Power of Love/just wanted to share
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:53:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Martee,

That was really lovely…thanks for sharing it!

Julie

__________________________________
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:31:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis
The reason i wrote that people who choose to play with fire will get burned is that u can use positive and negative energy to find your path…The occult presents you with a a wide path…it is up to you how u choose to use it….All im saying is you cannot lump esoteric arts into dangerous practises becasue there are people who use the hidden way to find happiness and love through love and light and goodness….ie mme blavatsky,dion fortune
Respect
Matt

>From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:16:53 -0500 > >Hi Matt > >*In the article they wrote : > >”All contact with the occult and the esoteric is extremely dangerous,” > >*Why do you wrote ? : > >If people choose to work with evil forces they pay sooner or latter–what goes around comes around—-but lumping the occult into one diabolical act is pure nonsense > > > >God Bless >Francis > > —– Original Message —– > From: matthew zielinski > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com > Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:49 AM > Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course > > > When will people recognize that the occult does not signify evil! If anyone does a simple research on the occult they will undertand that its just another path to enlightment. If people choose to work with evil forces they pay sooner or latter–what goes around comes around—-but lumping the occult into one diabolical act is pure nonsense > > Regards > > matt > > > > > > > > > >From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:06:22 -0500 > >I hate to bring this topic up again, but… Feel them spirits… Feel >all right now…. > >The original article can be found on SFGate.com here: >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/02/17/international/i013537S99.DTL > ——————————————————————— >Thursday, February 17, 2005 (AP) >Vatican University Debuts Satanism Classes >By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer > > (02-17) 12:31 PST ROME, Italy (AP) — > > In a classroom ringed by Rome’s pine-covered hills, 100 priests solemnly >stood in prayer, made the sign of the cross and got down to business: a >lesson on Satanism, demonic possession and exorcism. > > Worried about ritual killings in Italy and simple adolescent angst, a >Vatican-recognized university launched the course Thursday to help priests >and seminarians understand what makes people turn to the occult. The class >is billed as the first of its kind, with wide-ranging instruction by >exorcists, psychologists and a police criminologist. > > The Pontifical Academy “Regina Apostolorum” wants to clear up >misconceptions _ especially about exorcisms, a practice most priests do >not carry out. > > “An exorcist once told me that he asked his bishop for advice and was >told, ‘Go figure it out by yourself,” said Giuseppe Ferrari, >secretary-general of the Socio-Religious Research and Information Group, >co-sponsor of the class. > > Thursday’s lecturer, Rev. Gabriele Nanni, touched on the pitfalls of >driving the devil from someone’s body. > > Priests must never be proud of their ability, remembering that they are >merely conduits of Christ, he said. They must not perform exorcisms on >people they suspect have psychological problems. And they should not get >carried away and invent mystical gestures. > > “Everything must be carried out in extreme sobriety,” cautioned Nanni, an >exorcist himself. Among the few acceptable tools are a crucifix and >prayer. > > In shop talk at the end of class, one priest admitted that in his decades >of performing exorcisms, he wasn’t always sure he was doing it right. >Another asked if seances, for example, could leave people vulnerable to >psychological problems. > > “All contact with the occult and the esoteric is extremely dangerous,” >Nanni told the sea of priests in black jackets and white collars. > > The class debuts as an Italian court prepares to try eight people believed >to belong to a Satanic sect for their alleged role in three ritual >killings. Sect members belonged to a heavy metal band called “Beasts of >Satan.” > > One of the victims was a 19-year-old stabbed to death in 1998. She may >have been targeted because her killers believed she was a personification >of the Virgin Mary, prosecutors allege. Another victim was shot last year >and buried alive. > > Beyond the violence, Italian officials are concerned about young people >who develop personal forms of Satanism, outside the sects closely >monitored by police. They often learn about the devil through the >Internet. > > “It’s a more spontaneous and hidden phenomenon, a problem of loneliness >and isolation, a problem of emptiness, that is fulfilled by the values of >Satanism,” said Carlo Climati, an author who will teach a course on the >devil’s lure to young people. > > The class at the academy _ run by the Legionaries of Christ, a >conservative order _ drew both Italians and foreigners. Rev. Christopher >Barak, who came from the Lincoln, Neb., area at his bishop’s request, >senses a renewed concern about the devil among Roman Catholics. > > “In the ’60s and ’70s, people got away from that,” Barak said. “Even >theologians said, ‘No, the devil is just a myth.'” > > The course ends in April with the culminating lesson: “Testimony of an >Exorcist.” Two of Italy’s some 400 exorcists are to tell their stories. > > Widely accepted signs of possession _ some of which were depicted in the >1973 movie, “The Exorcist” _ include speaking in unknown tongues and >demonstrating physical force beyond one’s natural capacity. In 1999, when >the Vatican issued its first new guidelines since 1614 for driving out >devils, it urged priests to take modern psychiatry into account in >deciding who should be exorcised. > > The updated exorcism rite, contained in a red, leather-bound book, was a >reflection of Pope John Paul II’s efforts to convince the skeptical that >the devil is very much in the world. At the time, he gave a series of >homilies denouncing the devil as a “cosmic liar and murderer.” > > A former papal aide, the late Cardinal Jacques Martin, wrote in his >memoirs that John Paul performed the exorcism rite in 1982, on an Italian >woman who was screaming and writhing. > > ___ > > Associated Press writer Liza Keidan in Rome contributed to this report. > > ———————————————————————- >Copyright 2005 AP > > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > \]=———————————————————————=[/ > > > > >—————————————————————————— > Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] in retrospect
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:28:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sarah I am with you !!
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:50 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] in retrospect

What if they are mass murderers? Are you still gone watch and do nothing?
Not saying anything is like hiding your had in the sand.
Saying you don’t like it is your right. I don’t think you should feel
That you need to apologize.
S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 18 februari 2005 3:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] in retrospect

LIst,

Just wanted to apologize for my remarks about Bush
earlier today. I have been cranky lately and have let
it seep into my correspondence. I am a pacifist, and
wish no harm to any other living thing.

Talking politics can be a real downer. That’s why I
leave you with a quick blurb from the Simpsons.

Apu: I have come to make amends, sir. At first, I
blamed you for squealing, but then I realized, it was
I who wronged you. So I have come to work off my debt.
I am at your service.
Homer: You’re selling what, now?
Apu: I am selling only the concept of karmic
realignment.
Homer: You can’t sell that! Karma can only be
portioned out by the cosmos.
Apu: He’s got me there.

__________________________________
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:22:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We will pray, here.
God bless
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer

All the best—may the loving energy of eboga guide you and heal you —-peace and love :}
Best Regards
Matt

>From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 05:37:10 -0800 (PST) > >Re: sending a prayer.I will be in session tomorrow,thats saturday around noon est, please send good vibes my way,love shell > >knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: >http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/911/_images/candle_kid.jpg > > >— “m.finman” wrote: > > Kindly, > > Knowing the power of prayer, I would request any > > who will. Someone near and very dear to me is > > currently in session. I feel collective prayer is > > like poetry in motion. I appreciate your light. > > > > Martee > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________ >ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/bmp name=insideheart.bmp > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] >\]=———————————————————————=[/ >

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:16:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Matt

*In the article they wrote :

“All contact with the occult and the esoteric is extremely dangerous,”

*Why do you wrote ? :

If people choose to work with evil forces they pay sooner or latter–what goes around comes around—-but lumping the occult into one diabolical act is pure nonsense

God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course

When will people recognize that the occult does not signify evil! If anyone does a simple research on the occult they will undertand that its just another path to enlightment. If people choose to work with evil forces they pay sooner or latter–what goes around comes around—-but lumping the occult into one diabolical act is pure nonsense
Regards
matt

>From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course >Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 03:06:22 -0500 > >I hate to bring this topic up again, but… Feel them spirits… Feel >all right now…. > >The original article can be found on SFGate.com here: >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/02/17/international/i013537S99.DTL > ——————————————————————— >Thursday, February 17, 2005 (AP) >Vatican University Debuts Satanism Classes >By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer > > (02-17) 12:31 PST ROME, Italy (AP) — > > In a classroom ringed by Rome’s pine-covered hills, 100 priests solemnly >stood in prayer, made the sign of the cross and got down to business: a >lesson on Satanism, demonic possession and exorcism. > > Worried about ritual killings in Italy and simple adolescent angst, a >Vatican-recognized university launched the course Thursday to help priests >and seminarians understand what makes people turn to the occult. The class >is billed as the first of its kind, with wide-ranging instruction by >exorcists, psychologists and a police criminologist. > > The Pontifical Academy “Regina Apostolorum” wants to clear up >misconceptions _ especially about exorcisms, a practice most priests do >not carry out. > > “An exorcist once told me that he asked his bishop for advice and was >told, ‘Go figure it out by yourself,” said Giuseppe Ferrari, >secretary-general of the Socio-Religious Research and Information Group, >co-sponsor of the class. > > Thursday’s lecturer, Rev. Gabriele Nanni, touched on the pitfalls of >driving the devil from someone’s body. > > Priests must never be proud of their ability, remembering that they are >merely conduits of Christ, he said. They must not perform exorcisms on >people they suspect have psychological problems. And they should not get >carried away and invent mystical gestures. > > “Everything must be carried out in extreme sobriety,” cautioned Nanni, an >exorcist himself. Among the few acceptable tools are a crucifix and >prayer. > > In shop talk at the end of class, one priest admitted that in his decades >of performing exorcisms, he wasn’t always sure he was doing it right. >Another asked if seances, for example, could leave people vulnerable to >psychological problems. > > “All contact with the occult and the esoteric is extremely dangerous,” >Nanni told the sea of priests in black jackets and white collars. > > The class debuts as an Italian court prepares to try eight people believed >to belong to a Satanic sect for their alleged role in three ritual >killings. Sect members belonged to a heavy metal band called “Beasts of >Satan.” > > One of the victims was a 19-year-old stabbed to death in 1998. She may >have been targeted because her killers believed she was a personification >of the Virgin Mary, prosecutors allege. Another victim was shot last year >and buried alive. > > Beyond the violence, Italian officials are concerned about young people >who develop personal forms of Satanism, outside the sects closely >monitored by police. They often learn about the devil through the >Internet. > > “It’s a more spontaneous and hidden phenomenon, a problem of loneliness >and isolation, a problem of emptiness, that is fulfilled by the values of >Satanism,” said Carlo Climati, an author who will teach a course on the >devil’s lure to young people. > > The class at the academy _ run by the Legionaries of Christ, a >conservative order _ drew both Italians and foreigners. Rev. Christopher >Barak, who came from the Lincoln, Neb., area at his bishop’s request, >senses a renewed concern about the devil among Roman Catholics. > > “In the ’60s and ’70s, people got away from that,” Barak said. “Even >theologians said, ‘No, the devil is just a myth.'” > > The course ends in April with the culminating lesson: “Testimony of an >Exorcist.” Two of Italy’s some 400 exorcists are to tell their stories. > > Widely accepted signs of possession _ some of which were depicted in the >1973 movie, “The Exorcist” _ include speaking in unknown tongues and >demonstrating physical force beyond one’s natural capacity. In 1999, when >the Vatican issued its first new guidelines since 1614 for driving out >devils, it urged priests to take modern psychiatry into account in >deciding who should be exorcised. > > The updated exorcism rite, contained in a red, leather-bound book, was a >reflection of Pope John Paul II’s efforts to convince the skeptical that >the devil is very much in the world. At the time, he gave a series of >homilies denouncing the devil as a “cosmic liar and murderer.” > > A former papal aide, the late Cardinal Jacques Martin, wrote in his >memoirs that John Paul performed the exorcism rite in 1982, on an Italian >woman who was screaming and writhing. > > ___ > > Associated Press writer Liza Keidan in Rome contributed to this report. > > ———————————————————————- >Copyright 2005 AP > > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > \]=———————————————————————=[/ > >

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 18, 2005 at 10:10:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason, your the MAN. That sounds like the best advice I’ve heard in a long time. Esp. the step about the deranged post. Can I get an AMEN? Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 9:56:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 9:49:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 9:41:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All the best—may the loving energy of eboga guide you and heal you —-peace and love :}
Best Regards
Matt

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 9:11:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee
All the best to your acquantiance….I hope eboga will heal and enlighten him/her in every way…all the best….one love:}
Best Regards
matt

>From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibo <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 23:37:20 -0500 > >Kindly, > Knowing the power of prayer, I would request any who will. Someone near and very dear to me is currently in session. I feel collective prayer is like poetry in motion. I appreciate your light. > Martee

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick/history of addiction
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:55:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ta for the reply Nick. Perhaps I’m thinking in a narrow way but I really have problems accepting that most people don’t know what heroin is especially people addicted to it. Even if your interested in nothing else most users make it their business to know what is in what pharmacy drugs, pills, what you can break down etc. etc. Anything to work that high. Plus there is so much information out there these days about heroin and drugs (even if a lot is mis-information) how could people not know. Allison

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] free chooice- not for under 18 years old.
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:42:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] just not look under 18 (OT)
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:38:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:37:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Re: sending a prayer.I will be in session tomorrow,thats saturday around noon est, please send good vibes my way,love shell

knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/911/_images/candle_kid.jpg

— “m.finman” wrote:
> Kindly,
> Knowing the power of prayer, I would request any
> who will. Someone near and very dear to me is
> currently in session. I feel collective prayer is
> like poetry in motion. I appreciate your light.
>
> Martee
>

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> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/bmp name=insideheart.bmp

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:20:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey there,

It’s not temazepam but this is what I try to do…
it works sometimes, sometimes not.

3 hours before bedtime Daily Kava and/or melaToeNIN

step 0.1/eXerrrSize (Long walk[with pet if possible],
dunce, yoga or whatever)

step 0.2/when back from Walk, warm Shower, wash with
Good Soap, ‘let go’ when rinsing. If problem with
that, visualize a good size Cup of Pure Relaxing
Liquid above head, when See it good, start rinsing
while visualizing the Pure Relaxing Liquid pouring
starting at the crown of “hEEd” (look at the size of
the melon..) down neck back, chest etc…

step 0.3/eat and drink good food and drink with some
more kava

step 0.4/grab 3 books, make bed with clean sheets,
lay down and start reading. If 60-90min pass and
still awake, post an enlightened post here, followed
by a deranged one. Open word doc and start writing
life story, or type random text from favorite books,
either way.

If still awake, Rinse then Repeat.

I hope things are well for you. The severity of
the insomnia post ibo seems to lessen in a few days I
think.

Cheers,
Jason

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick/history of addiction
Date: February 18, 2005 at 8:05:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Allison Senepart [mailto:paradisepaint@call south.net.nz]
Sent: 18 February 2005 11:24
To: ibogaine
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick/history of addiction

Allison,

A lot of people in the UK have genuinely no idea what heroin actually is. To them it’s simply a word that conjures up all sorts of images of vast evil that could descend on themselves or their kids at any moment and their lives would just be interminably fucked up. Really. Some addicts too, in my experience. They don’t realize it’s just an analgesic, a painkiller.

Nick
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 18, 2005 at 7:58:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 20:47
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick wrote >For some people they are so overwhelmed by feelings
on a daily
basis that they actually need a form of sedation just to be
functional. My
thing is that it is socially useful to understand a drug in terms of its
action. This is why I push for heroin addicts to recognize that
their drug
is a high-strength painkiller. It demystifies it, both for addict and
fearing public. Once you start to take out the fear then the real issues
with heroin can become clearer and be more usefully addressed.<

Hey, what do you know, I somewhat agree with you here Nick!
;-)))

Hey Preston,

We did it! We found something we agree on! Yeah, I love you, it’s great man.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 18, 2005 at 7:56:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 18 February 2005 04:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Hey Preston,

So….using this, let me rephrase

Personalize please. I know what I have in terms of choices
Nick-

OK, I would be interested to hear what you have in terms of choices, if you
would like to tell me.

what do
YOU have? Do YOU have a choice in what you believe (I ask, not tell)?

So, is this OK? I am using the word YOU because I want to address these
comments to you.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:55:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sleep patterns. What are they. I can’t remember having any sort of normal sleep pattern since I was about 13. Used to swim and do sports as a teenager & had trouble sleeping, got older worked night shifts through high school to make money and enjoyed working nights. Did bar work, catering and that suited me fine but not such a good routine when you have children and a home. When my daughter was young I used to do all my housework at night cuz thats what worked for me. Poor kid probably thought the vacuum cleaner was something that happened after dark. I just figured I was a night owl but then I have never seemed to slot into the so called appropriate slots. Part of the personality and using drugs is all about pushing the boundries and so called rules and regulations (I hate being told what to do) but it can be hard to turn back once you cross lines. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 18 February 2005 11:00:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga

Matt, after Ibo my Doc gave me some kind of anti depressant that really helped. I can’t remember what it was so I’ll call him Friday and find out. It wasn’t Elavil. I’ve been meaning to call him and thank him for helping me anyway. 5 months later I still sleep sporadically. I always did though. I’ve never had “normal” sleep patterns and I think that is true with a lot of us. It is good to see more people using Ibogaine. Randy

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:41:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi donna. I too used Methadone like Martee talked about. I did 30-35mgs first and then dropped over 3 days which didn’t bother the system much but found that the last few mgs were the hardest and the longer you hang on to the methadone the harder it is to break. I can’t decided if the last bit was a mental crutch or physical or a bit of both. Perhaps Martee can provide that info. It does help cleaning up but doesn’t solve the problem of staying clean which apparently ibogaine can provide. At least it might give you some space to think of alternatives and get your head around cleaning up without hiding under the duvet feeling like shit which is what I got used to doing. Good luck and best wishes. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 18 February 2005 3:04:35 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Hi Martee

I did not know you could do that with the meth, I always thought I would have to wean myself off the meth!!! which is worse than coming off the gear!!!!. I have not ruled the ibogaine out& would love to do it that way, i’ll keep you posted

love donna

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga (long )
Date: February 18, 2005 at 6:34:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I heard you could see a kinesthiologist( sorry, not sure of the spelling) that could tell you exactly what vitamins, minerals etc were lacking in the body and also let you know what toxins your body had that you had picked up.; Do you know anything about that?? I thought your herbal medicine message was great although it helps to know what to take as in individual. I was just thinking of all the different products on the market and sometimes its easy for people to get swamped with false claims and products. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 18 February 2005 2:16:03 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga (long )

Hi Matt !

Here some help 🙂

Ayurvedic:

Ashwagandha (Withania somnifera)
Dr. Shailinder Sodhi, N.D., an expert in Ayurvedic medicine from Bellevue, Washington, says, “Ashwagandha provides a sense of wellbeing with a decrease in anxiety. Users feel mellow. It is also a good aphrodisiac.” Lise Alschuler, N.D., Chair of the Botanical Medicine Department at Bastyr University in Seattle, Washington, adds, “My clinical experience indicates that ashwagandha reduces anxiety and is helpful for insomnia. I recommend it for patients who are tense and need a calming herb. They can think more clearly after being relaxed.”
—————————————————————————————————-

Herbal medecine:
In this world, we all are faced with the effects of a stressful lifestyle. The “stress” symptoms most commonly seen by the health care practitioner are insomnia, anxiety, and restlessness. Fortunately, there are alternatives to the use of prescription medications– many herbal and nutritional remedies work quite well!
The western herbs that act as relaxants as well as nervine tonics are beneficial. These include Valerian, Passion Flower, Chamomile, Vervain, and Oatstraw. This category of herbs not only relaxes nervous tension, but also tones the nervous system. Valerian (Valeriana officinalis) is the most popular of this category, and has been shown in studies to enhance sleep quality with no side-effects the next morning.
Adaptogenic herbs such as Siberian Ginseng and American Ginseng are also useful. The symptoms of insomnia, anxiety, and restlessness are often signs of deep metabolic stress in the body. This category of herbs assist the body in adapting to stress, whether the stress be metabolic, physical, or psychological. Siberian Ginseng (Eleutherococcus senticosus) is often taken one to two weeks a month to support the metabolism of the body and to reduce the effects of stress. It also enhances energy and overall health and resistance.
And finally, those under stress need nutritional support. The B Vitamins, Vitamin C, and Calcium are often depleted, and their supplementation is often beneficial. And since L-Tryptophan, the amino acid often used for alleviating insomnia, is no longer available on the market, one may need to choose among these other nutrients.
The following is an Herbal Program that may be useful in treating insomnia.

• As needed Valerian, or Valerian combined with other relaxants and
In addition, try the following program:

• Week 1 Siberian Ginseng or other adaptogenic herbs Dosage: 1 dose, 3 times daily Calcium/Magnesium Further restores and relaxes the nervous system Dosage: 1 dose (up to 250 mg of Calcium), 3 times daily
• Week 2 B Complex Supports metabolism during times of stress Dosage: 1 dose (up to 50 mg of B1,3,6), 3 times daily
• Week 3 Siberian Ginseng or other adaptogenic herbs Dosage: 1 dose, 3 times daily Calcium/Magnesium Further restores and relaxes the nervous system Dosage: 1 dose (up to 250 mg of Calcium), 3 times daily
• Week 4 B Complex Supports metabolism during times of stress Dosage: 1 dose (up to 50 mg B1,3,6), 3 times daily
Janet Zand, OMD, L. Ac., is a respected naturopathic physician who lives and practices in the Los Angeles area. She has developed a unique and effective method of combining herbal medicine with nutrition, homeopathy and acupuncture. Her credentials include a Doctor of Naturopathy, Doctor of Oriental Medicine, and Certified Acupuncturist. Dr. Zand has over fifteen years of clinical experience treating with natural medicine, as well as having formulated her own line of herbal supplements.
————————————————————————————————————————–
Mind body :
Findings from a recent Stanford University Medical School study may come as no surprise: older and middle-age people reported sleeping better when they added regular exercise to their routine. After 16 weeks in a moderate intensity exercise program, subjects were able to fall asleep about 15 minutes earlier and sleep about 45 minutes longer at night.
Researchers selected 29 women and 14 men with mild sleep complaints for a 16-week controlled study. All participants were age 50 to 74, lived sedentary lives, and suffered no cardiovascular disease, stroke or other clinically diagnosed disorder known to cause sleep disorders. All were non-smokers and moderate drinkers. None were seriously overweight or taking hormone replacement therapy, sleep medications or other medications known to affect sleep.
Participants exercised at least four times a week. Twice a week they participated in an organized aerobics class, which included 30 minutes of endurance training. The other two times they exercised on their own, doing 40 minutes of brisk walking or stationary bike riding. To assess impact on sleep, researchers looked at factors such as how long it takes to fall asleep, total hours of sleep per night, how often one wakes up, how one feels when waking up, and daytime function.
The link between aerobic exercise and sleep may seem obvious, but until this study, there has been very little controlled research to support this “conventional wisdom.” Researchers were especially concerned about the overemphasis on sedative hypnotic medications for older adults. Though they are only 20% of the population, older Americans receive almost half the medications prescribed to aid sleep. The potential side effects of these drugs-confusion, falls, extended drowsiness, agitation, and interactions with other medications-can be especially problematic for this age group. Until this study, there have been very few attempts to identify effective non-drug approaches to treating mild sleep disorders.
The study also provides further evidence of the interactions of mind and body. In this case improving physical health shows a positive impact on the mind.
RX: Self-Care Tips  Try exercise to help your sleep. Here are some tips.
• A drop in body temperature aids sound sleep. So time your exercise five to six hours before bedtime.
• Make your exercise vigorous enough to make you sweat a little. Previous studies have shown that non-aerobic stretching and concentration exercises alone did not impart sleep.
• Stick with it! Participants in this study did not report improved sleep until they had been exercising for 16 weeks.
——————————————————————————————————————————-

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga

Hi all
Its been a month and 3 days since i had a session with Eboga for my heroin/meth habbit…I still continue to sleep only 2-3 hours a day. Is this normal? I had a history of anxiety/insomnia while using opiates…i could take 150mg of diazepam without becoming drowsy…i also did alot of other benzos is high amounts lorazepam clonzazepam bronazepam etc…as of now i am taking a lot of different homeopathic remedies plus melatonin 5htp and herbal suplemts but nothing works..any suggestions?
REgards
Matt

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick/history of addiction
Date: February 18, 2005 at 6:24:08 AM EST
To: “ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse
Date: February 18, 2005 at 6:29:06 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

If I were to draw a parallel between sexually abused people and drug addiction it is this:

I think as long as “drug addicts” put themselves on a separate pedestal to the rest of us they will lack the collective support they need to advance their position. It cannot be fought along the lines of: I am an addict and Ill tell you how it is but you dont tell me anything because you know jack shit! So if you are going to help me do as I say, not as I do.

I have spent 6 months reading this list and learning little by little the issues and the problems surrounding drug addiction. What has kept me hooked (in part) is the empathy I feel for the genuine suffering I can identify with on this list. Yet, how many on this list know enough about the effects of sexual abuse to pass judgement that there is nothing in common or that it is outside the comprehension of a victim of sexual abuse to comprehend the experience of an addict? (Indeed I am only taking one example there are others, victims of war,..). If you need proof of what I am saying maybe I can sit down and write about a day in the life of an addict beginning with: Woke up this morning feeling like shit. I cant get out of bed as it hurts to be awake but I have no choice. Oh, sorry, for a second I thought I was reminiscing.

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] in retrospect
Date: February 18, 2005 at 6:20:37 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR BASHING BUSH AS HE’LL SUCK THE PACIFIST RIGHT OUT OF YOUR SOUL,IMHO
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:25 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] in retrospect

LIst,

Just wanted to apologize for my remarks about Bush
earlier today. I have been cranky lately and have let
it seep into my correspondence. I am a pacifist, and
wish no harm to any other living thing.

Talking politics can be a real downer. That’s why I
leave you with a quick blurb from the Simpsons.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] in retrospect
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:11:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, I was thinking the same thing. Randy

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Exorcism and the Vatican’s new University course
Date: February 18, 2005 at 3:06:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I hate to bring this topic up again, but… Feel them spirits… Feel
all right now….

The original article can be found on SFGate.com here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/02/17/international/i013537S99.DTL
———————————————————————
Thursday, February 17, 2005 (AP)
Vatican University Debuts Satanism Classes
By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer

(02-17) 12:31 PST ROME, Italy (AP) —

In a classroom ringed by Rome’s pine-covered hills, 100 priests solemnly
stood in prayer, made the sign of the cross and got down to business: a
lesson on Satanism, demonic possession and exorcism.

Worried about ritual killings in Italy and simple adolescent angst, a
Vatican-recognized university launched the course Thursday to help priests
and seminarians understand what makes people turn to the occult. The class
is billed as the first of its kind, with wide-ranging instruction by
exorcists, psychologists and a police criminologist.

The Pontifical Academy “Regina Apostolorum” wants to clear up
misconceptions _ especially about exorcisms, a practice most priests do
not carry out.

“An exorcist once told me that he asked his bishop for advice and was
told, ‘Go figure it out by yourself,” said Giuseppe Ferrari,
secretary-general of the Socio-Religious Research and Information Group,
co-sponsor of the class.

Thursday’s lecturer, Rev. Gabriele Nanni, touched on the pitfalls of
driving the devil from someone’s body.

Priests must never be proud of their ability, remembering that they are
merely conduits of Christ, he said. They must not perform exorcisms on
people they suspect have psychological problems. And they should not get
carried away and invent mystical gestures.

“Everything must be carried out in extreme sobriety,” cautioned Nanni, an
exorcist himself. Among the few acceptable tools are a crucifix and
prayer.

In shop talk at the end of class, one priest admitted that in his decades
of performing exorcisms, he wasn’t always sure he was doing it right.
Another asked if seances, for example, could leave people vulnerable to
psychological problems.

“All contact with the occult and the esoteric is extremely dangerous,”
Nanni told the sea of priests in black jackets and white collars.

The class debuts as an Italian court prepares to try eight people believed
to belong to a Satanic sect for their alleged role in three ritual
killings. Sect members belonged to a heavy metal band called “Beasts of
Satan.”

One of the victims was a 19-year-old stabbed to death in 1998. She may
have been targeted because her killers believed she was a personification
of the Virgin Mary, prosecutors allege. Another victim was shot last year
and buried alive.

Beyond the violence, Italian officials are concerned about young people
who develop personal forms of Satanism, outside the sects closely
monitored by police. They often learn about the devil through the
Internet.

“It’s a more spontaneous and hidden phenomenon, a problem of loneliness
and isolation, a problem of emptiness, that is fulfilled by the values of
Satanism,” said Carlo Climati, an author who will teach a course on the
devil’s lure to young people.

The class at the academy _ run by the Legionaries of Christ, a
conservative order _ drew both Italians and foreigners. Rev. Christopher
Barak, who came from the Lincoln, Neb., area at his bishop’s request,
senses a renewed concern about the devil among Roman Catholics.

“In the ’60s and ’70s, people got away from that,” Barak said. “Even
theologians said, ‘No, the devil is just a myth.'”

The course ends in April with the culminating lesson: “Testimony of an
Exorcist.” Two of Italy’s some 400 exorcists are to tell their stories.

Widely accepted signs of possession _ some of which were depicted in the
1973 movie, “The Exorcist” _ include speaking in unknown tongues and
demonstrating physical force beyond one’s natural capacity. In 1999, when
the Vatican issued its first new guidelines since 1614 for driving out
devils, it urged priests to take modern psychiatry into account in
deciding who should be exorcised.

The updated exorcism rite, contained in a red, leather-bound book, was a
reflection of Pope John Paul II’s efforts to convince the skeptical that
the devil is very much in the world. At the time, he gave a series of
homilies denouncing the devil as a “cosmic liar and murderer.”

A former papal aide, the late Cardinal Jacques Martin, wrote in his
memoirs that John Paul performed the exorcism rite in 1982, on an Italian
woman who was screaming and writhing.

___

Associated Press writer Liza Keidan in Rome contributed to this report.

———————————————————————-
Copyright 2005 AP

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] in retrospect
Date: February 18, 2005 at 1:50:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 18 februari 2005 3:25
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] in retrospect

LIst,

Just wanted to apologize for my remarks about Bush
earlier today. I have been cranky lately and have let
it seep into my correspondence. I am a pacifist, and
wish no harm to any other living thing.

Talking politics can be a real downer. That’s why I
leave you with a quick blurb from the Simpsons.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 18, 2005 at 12:19:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I and most of the others would
get so frustrated, because while we’d be trying to speak and describe our
feelings (not what we “thought” but what we “felt”- a common excercise in
acting classes too I’ve since discovered), but would constantly be
inturrupted by the counselor, who would say, “personalize. I, I, I, not You.
I can only speak for me, no one else can do that.” <

Darn it, see what I went and did here? I wrote “we, and we,” not “I would get so frustrated,” but “we would get so…etc.” That’s silly. How do I know how they felt? I have no idea really. I can really only honestly speak for me. Right?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick wrote >If you do then you get what happens, and you’re confimed to a
lifetime of blaming others. What pro-addiction forces want is for you to
believe that the position is hopeless, that the forces mounted against you
are too much to be overwhelmed. If you believe that then it’s pretty hard to
move on anything. You always have a choice. If you don’t believe that, take
the choice to dump your belief systems. You have the choice what you
believe.<

Nick, a personal gripe with me, one of the main things I did actually pick up and continue to concsciously use from my first 28 day program, to try and stop smoking crack back in the mid 80s, was to personalize things. Sitting in this one particular group, day after day, I and most of the others would get so frustrated, because while we’d be trying to speak and describe our feelings (not what we “thought” but what we “felt”- a common excercise in acting classes too I’ve since discovered), but would constantly be inturrupted by the counselor, who would say, “personalize. I, I, I, not You. I can only speak for me, no one else can do that.” And every single time I read one of your notes, telling me how what’s arrayed against ME, and what is hopeless for me, and what choices I have, I get the feeling that the person you are really talking to is You. Whether you actually realize it or not.
So please, do try and stop telling me (and please don’t try to take the “but I’m speaking all inclusively in general terms” cop out) things you haven’t any clue about- speak for yourself. Who is allied against YOU? What do YOU believe and what effects has it had on YOU, and what did YOU Learn about YOU, since it couldn’t possibly have taught you much about ME and how I’d react or how I’M feeling or the consequences for ME as a result of what YOU learned- I don’t think anyway.
Personalize please. I know what I have in terms of choices Nick- what do YOU have? Do YOU have a choice in what you believe (I ask, not tell)?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 20:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

and for that matter, when it comes to drug reform, it’s a
definite risk to
speak out for our rights these days Nick, in that it’s ILLEGAL to use
currently illegal drugs, so when someone speaks up for drug users rights,
they not only risk the “you druggie lover” labels, but also
investigations
and more horror for speaking out.
So right away drug users have a huge block to break through from the
get-go. While gay used to be illegal in some countries, one could
be gay and
not be arrested- it was only illegal to actually engage in gaydom- but
illegal drugs now, it’s illegal to even know people are
using/buying/selling
illegal drugs and NOT TURN THEM IN. That’s conspiracy to committ
crime, to
the best of my understanding, no?
So it’s not the same Nick, not even close.
It’s your predjudices that are at issue here I honestly
believe Nick, no
matter how you phrase it, and you’ve phrased it many different ways this
past week, every time saying the same thing- opiate users
shouldn’t be using
unless they have a good reason, one that Nick Sandberg feels is “good.”

I don’t believe in taking a drug long-term that represses awareness, it’s
true. I’m also not so against it like it’s evil or something. And for sure
nothing is Black and White, except when you need to change something. I find
people who just want to hold a negative position a drag, this is also true.
Part of me is ok with addicts, part of me is pissed off with them, part of
me loves them, and part of me is happy to push them a bit and see what
happens.

About the law, you have to take that on. Look for the myriad weakspots when
it comes to enforcement and group-action, civil rights issues, and some cops
own desire to see something positive happen with addiction. I don’t know so
much about the US, I’m in the UK, but there’s a lot that can be done….that
is if you don’t just imprison yourself in negative and self-limiting
beliefs. If you do then you get what happens, and you’re confimed to a
lifetime of blaming others. What pro-addiction forces want is for you to
believe that the position is hopeless, that the forces mounted against you
are too much to be overwhelmed. If you believe that then it’s pretty hard to
move on anything. You always have a choice. If you don’t believe that, take
the choice to dump your belief systems. You have the choice what you
believe.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick, dude, I have to say something here. You ever hear of Wounded Knee.
Native Americans have been getting fucked ever since we came
here. I don’t
think that they are really treated any better now then they were
then. Seems
like Native Americans have quietly gathered forces on their own and put
effort into getting gambling and other things on the reservation. (I hate
that word, why call something that was theirs in the first place a
reservation) I hope they get every dime they have coming to them. TWICE.
Anyway, what you are talking about would be great but, Gays, Non whites,
wise asses, whatever, are in the work force and some of them are
influential. Not many addicts can even admit they are addicted
and keep the
job they have. How in the hell is anyone supposed to rally forces
when they
can’t even keep a job to pay bills with? We live on the edge of society
cause nobody wants to deal with us. It hits too close to home and
everyone
else’s habits. Better to just shun us and keep us down. Does
society really
want to take an honest look at addiction and see all the
skeletons in just
about every family? Not just NO, but, FUCK NO. Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 18, 2005 at 12:15:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you and your friend both got it from this direction martee.
best of thoughts and affections your ways.

Peace and love and lots of light, warmth and laughter,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: m.finman
To: ibo
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 11:37 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Methadone review article raises more questions than it answers!
Date: February 18, 2005 at 12:05:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 7:52 PM
Subject: Methadone review article raises more questions than it answers!

Simoens S, Matheson C, Bond C, Inkster K, Ludbrook A. The effectiveness of community maintenance with methadone or buprenorphine for treating opiate dependence. British Journal of General Practice (2005) 139-146

Dear Colleagues,
It is always gratifying to see dependency subjects covered in mainstream journals. This should raise awareness of effective opioid maintenance and other therapies for addictions amongst front line health workers. However, this ‘Review Article’ would be more likely to turn interested GPs, nurses or pharmacists away from being involved in addiction treatments.

The authors quote comparative research which consistently shows buprenorphine to be slightly but significantly inferior to methadone in most outcome measures. Yet their contradictory conclusion states: “. the evidence suggests that . buprenorphine may even be more effective than methadone, depending on dose”.

While comparisons between methadone and buprenorphine are worth mentioning, these authors seem to read the literature to find out which is ‘best’. Few would spend time arguing the general ‘superiority’ of one antibiotic over another. In doing so they miss the point that neither is used altogether appropriately in the UK (or most other countries). A review article might be expected to address better ways of matching patient to treatment, yet this is largely ignored here despite some useful recent research on the subject, including those with HIV, pregnancy, fast metabolism, etc.

They write further: “There was some evidence that primary care could be an effective setting [for opioid maintenance treatment] but such evidence was sparse”. This academic peccadillo also applies to insulin, warfarin or most other pharmacotherapies. Although most research is performed clinics, few would doubt its extension to community practice. It seems that these authors lack confidence in the Cochrane contributors on the subjects. The lingering doubts expressed by the authors might deny treatment to most of the patient population while we wait for yet more research!

One of the most important messages of this review paper, UK treatment standards, is almost buried towards the end. Exemplifying understatement (and some clumsy English) we are told: “With respect to community maintenance with methadone . higher doses of methadone are more effective. This is important because surveys of current prescribing practices of GPs in the UK suggest that methadone may still be underdosed.” [In fact the mean dose in the UK is less than 40mg daily. While this is a good starting level it is only half the ‘plateau’ dose needed for optimum results.]

Thus the authors (all but one from Aberdeen) avoid properly addressing the scandal of methadone treatment in the UK which continues unaddressed to this day. Dependent citizens may thus drop out of inadequate treatment, relapse to heroin use, overdose or contract viral infections while the medical profession gets a bad name for gross mismanagement of opioid dependency. A similar state of affairs for diabetics, hypertensives or arthritis patients could make an election issue.

After apparently searching the literature for negative items, our current authors also state: ‘higher doses of methadone may increase craving for heroin and decrease subjective wellbeing’. This is based on one very small study which has never been replicated (Curran et al, Addiction 1999 94:665). The findings conflict with 2000 years of recorded experience where additional opioids are generally associated with reduced cravings and increased feelings of well being in the acute situation. The Addiction editor wrote to me that there may indeed have been a statistical error in this study but he declined to allow any correspondence on the matter, leaving its rather outlandish sentiments uncontested in the literature. One assumes that these ‘Review Article’ authors would have read the reference carefully before quoting its title. John Strang wrote recently that methadone may yet have a ‘sting in the tail’.

After 40 years of clinical experience methadone is no longer “on trial”. The question is why people still express lingering yet unfounded doubts about its safety and effectiveness when used according to established practice guidelines. It appears that buprenorphine is in the same category.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:57:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick wrote >If you do then you get what happens, and you’re confimed to a
lifetime of blaming others. What pro-addiction forces want is for you to
believe that the position is hopeless, that the forces mounted against you
are too much to be overwhelmed. If you believe that then it’s pretty hard to
move on anything. You always have a choice. If you don’t believe that, take
the choice to dump your belief systems. You have the choice what you
believe.<

Nick, a personal gripe with me, one of the main things I did actually pick up and continue to concsciously use from my first 28 day program, to try and stop smoking crack back in the mid 80s, was to personalize things. Sitting in this one particular group, day after day, I and most of the others would get so frustrated, because while we’d be trying to speak and describe our feelings (not what we “thought” but what we “felt”- a common excercise in acting classes too I’ve since discovered), but would constantly be inturrupted by the counselor, who would say, “personalize. I, I, I, not You. I can only speak for me, no one else can do that.” And every single time I read one of your notes, telling me how what’s arrayed against ME, and what is hopeless for me, and what choices I have, I get the feeling that the person you are really talking to is You. Whether you actually realize it or not.
So please, do try and stop telling me (and please don’t try to take the “but I’m speaking all inclusively in general terms” cop out) things you haven’t any clue about- speak for yourself. Who is allied against YOU? What do YOU believe and what effects has it had on YOU, and what did YOU Learn about YOU, since it couldn’t possibly have taught you much about ME and how I’d react or how I’M feeling or the consequences for ME as a result of what YOU learned- I don’t think anyway.
Personalize please. I know what I have in terms of choices Nick- what do YOU have? Do YOU have a choice in what you believe (I ask, not tell)?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 20:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:46:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/911/_images/candle_kid.jpg

— “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net> wrote:
Kindly,
Knowing the power of prayer, I would request any
who will. Someone near and very dear to me is
currently in session. I feel collective prayer is
like poetry in motion. I appreciate your light.

Martee

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Power of Love/just wanted to share
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:41:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HOpe you are well,
Thank you for real for sending this:

— “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net> wrote:
When a woman in a certain African tribe knows she
is pregnant, she goes out
into the wilderness with a few friends and
together they pray and meditate
until they hear the song of the child. They
recognize that every soul has
its own vibration that expresses its unique flavor
and purpose. When the
women attune to the song, they sing it out loud.
Then they return to the
tribe and teach it to everyone else.

When the child is born, the community gathers and
sings the child’s song to
him or her. Later, when the child enters
education, the village gathers
and chants the child’s song. When the child
passes through the initiation
to adulthood, the people again come together and
sing. At the time of
marriage, the person hears his or her song.

Finally, when the soul is about to pass from this
world, the family and
friends gather at the person’s bed, just as they
did at their birth, and
they sing the person to the next life.

In the African tribe there is one other occasion
upon which the villagers
sing to the child. If at any time during a
person’s life, he or she
commits a crime or aberrant social act, that
individual is called to stand
in the center of a circle formed by all members of
the tribe. Once again
the villagers chant the child’s song.

The tribe recognizes that the correction for
antisocial behavior is not
punishment; it is love and the remembrance of
identity. When you recognize
your own song, you have no desire or need to do
anything that would hurt
another.

A friend is someone who knows your song and sings
it to you when you have
forgotten it. Those who love you are not fooled
by mistakes you have made
or dark images you hold about yourself They
remember your beauty when you
feel ugly; your wholeness when you are broken;
your innocence when you feel
guilty; and your purpose when you are confused.

You may not have grown up in an African tribe that
sings your song to you
at crucial life transitions, but life is always
reminding you when you are
in tune with yourself and when you are not. When
you feel good, what you
are doing matches your song, and when you feel
awful, it doesn’t. In the
end, we shall all recognize our song and sing it
well You may feel a
little wobbly at the moment, but so have all the
great singers. Just keep
singing and you’ll find your way home.

********************************

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] in retrospect
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:38:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes 🙂 Yes 🙂 Yes 🙂

Homer: You’re selling what, now?
Apu: I am selling only the concept of karmic
realignment.
Homer: You can’t sell that! Karma can only be
portioned out by the cosmos.

”
…
Close your eyes
Look deep in your soul
Step outside yourself
And let your mind go
…
Close your eyes
And forget your name
Step outside yourself
And let your thoughts drain
…
”

”
Smiling Faces
…
Can you dig it?
”

– S. k0k0

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Say a prayer
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:37:20 PM EST
To: ibo <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kindly,
Knowing the power of prayer, I would request any who will. Someone near and very dear to me is currently in session. I feel collective prayer is like poetry in motion. I appreciate your light.
Martee
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Power of Love/just wanted to share
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:27:44 PM EST
To: ibo <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When a woman in a certain African tribe knows she is pregnant, she goes out into the wilderness with a few friends and together they pray and meditate until they hear the song of the child. They recognize that every soul has its own vibration that expresses its unique flavor and purpose. When the women attune to the song, they sing it out loud. Then they return to the tribe and teach it to everyone else.  When the child is born, the community gathers and sings the child’s song to him or her. Later, when the child enters education, the village gathers and chants the child’s song. When the child passes through the initiation to adulthood, the people again come together and sing. At the time of marriage, the person hears his or her song.  Finally, when the soul is about to pass from this world, the family and friends gather at the person’s bed, just as they did at their birth, and they sing the person to the next life.  In the African tribe there is one other occasion upon which the villagers sing to the child. If at any time during a person’s life, he or she commits a crime or aberrant social act, that individual is called to stand in the center of a circle formed by all members of the tribe. Once again the villagers chant the child’s song.  The tribe recognizes that the correction for antisocial behavior is not punishment; it is love and the remembrance of identity. When you recognize your own song, you have no desire or need to do anything that would hurt another.  A friend is someone who knows your song and sings it to you when you have forgotten it. Those who love you are not fooled by mistakes you have made or dark images you hold about yourself They remember your beauty when you feel ugly; your wholeness when you are broken; your innocence when you feel guilty; and your purpose when you are confused.  You may not have grown up in an African tribe that sings your song to you at crucial life transitions, but life is always reminding you when you are in tune with yourself and when you are not. When you feel good, what you are doing matches your song, and when you feel awful, it doesn’t. In the end, we shall all recognize our song and sing it well You may feel a little wobbly at the moment, but so have all the great singers. Just keep singing and you’ll find your way home.   ********************************
>© Alan Cohen

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] atrocities of a pale rider- john d. negroponte
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:15:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Preston for this nice article.
Following on the subject of atrocities..
Here an article the price paid by the oldest democraty of South America
:Colombia for the drug War

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1411812,00.html

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] atrocities of a pale rider- john d. negroponte

you know, it’s stories like this that make me wonder
why there have not been more Bush assassination
attempts…I mean, where the fuck are all the crazies
when you need them…

not that I endorse assassination or anything, but come
on- this is f*cking ridiculous.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 10:59:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna,
Actually you really don’t have to half cut anything if you’re doing only 3-4 days. The thing for me was to always be comfortable and maybe then some. I believe it was the generous dose for 3 days and maybe minimal if any on the 4th that the accumulative affect of those doses held me through any residual. That whole weaning off thing does not apply because you aren’t addicted in 3 days to have to wean off of anything. I NEVER let myself go past 4 days 3 preferably as that’s when I always felt I would be pushing my luck. Being in water, showers or baths would always give the most relief and also not sitting around focusing on if anything didn’t feel right. I am not exagerating when I tell you this was discomfort free on the physical side. It wasn’t until I did the ibogaine that I was able to really do what I thought was the unthinkable for me.
I wish you the best,
Martee
Ps. I was also wondering if you had considered weaning off the H before detoxing or weaning down?
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

HI Martee
So Day 1 no H, enough meth to make me feel ok, then day 2 cut it in half, and day 3 cut dose in half again???? for example: day 1:80mls, day 2:40mls day 3:20mls day 4: nothing? Is this what you mean????? if so is it not hurrendous on day 4, 5 and 6????
love Donna
ps: I really appreciate all your advice, thank you so muchxxxxxxxxxx

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] in retrospect
Date: February 17, 2005 at 9:25:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LIst,

Just wanted to apologize for my remarks about Bush
earlier today. I have been cranky lately and have let
it seep into my correspondence. I am a pacifist, and
wish no harm to any other living thing.

Talking politics can be a real downer. That’s why I
leave you with a quick blurb from the Simpsons.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga (long )
Date: February 17, 2005 at 8:15:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Matt !

Here some help 🙂

Ayurvedic:

• As needed Valerian, or Valerian combined with other relaxants and
In addition, try the following program:

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:33 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 6:30:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy
Thanks buddy:] i will do a search and go to my doctor asap….6 hours of sleep would be a gift from heaven…haha funny doctor eh….unfortunetly the only sex i will be having now is with my right hand heh:]
Much apprieciated..Best Regards
matt

>From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:15:57 EST > >Matt, my mother tells me it was Remeron. That sounds right. Do a google or >whatever to find out what you can. My Doc gave them to me instead of the benzo’s >he promised and pissed me off royally. He did the right thing. They did help >about as much as the bezo’s I got on my own. I would get 5 or 6 hours of sleep >every time I melted one on my tongue. I never tried two because I didn’t want >to feel any weirder than I already was feeling. Let me say this before >someone else does, sex helps with this issue too. Couldn’t suck worse than not >sleepin’. (he said suck, huhu) Good luck dude, stick around. Randy

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A position
Date: February 17, 2005 at 6:19:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 16/02/2005 22:40:21 GMT Standard Time, jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au writes:
Hi Jasen,
How are you, you sound really well and positive which is great.
Although I am still strong,..I am not comfortable in my home now or my surroundings,I have some
big decisions to make.

Why dont you move the world is your oyster!!! fresh start might be great for you!!!

It’s like I am being taught to handle life’s pressures,challenges,and make big decisions whilst
haze free. It says,”can you handle it man?” and I say” f*ck yes I can handle it,..but settle down a bit ay.

Thats because you can handle lifes pressures, you are strong, and the drugs are not supressing you anymore, do you feel ready to settle down???? if you are go for it, but if you are not sure do not rush into anything, i think you are the best judge of whats right for you now. I will be as positive as you soon, very soon. I have spoken with Sara and she said I can pop over and see her, I was hoping to do this at the weekend, but I cant. I will do it when I get back im off on holiday for a week.

Thank you so much for all your advice.

Take care of youxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 6:15:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt, my mother tells me it was Remeron. That sounds right. Do a google or whatever to find out what you can. My Doc gave them to me instead of the benzo’s he promised and pissed me off royally. He did the right thing. They did help about as much as the bezo’s I got on my own. I would get 5 or 6 hours of sleep every time I melted one on my tongue. I never tried two because I didn’t want to feel any weirder than I already was feeling. Let me say this before someone else does, sex helps with this issue too. Couldn’t suck worse than not sleepin’. (he said suck, huhu) Good luck dude, stick around. Randy

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:23:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy
Anything that would help would be much apreciated–but no sedatives/tranqulaizers/benzos–done with that shit:}}
Best Regards
Matt

>From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:59:17 EST > >Matt, after Ibo my Doc gave me some kind of anti depressant that really >helped. I can’t remember what it was so I’ll call him Friday and find out. It >wasn’t Elavil. I’ve been meaning to call him and thank him for helping me anyway. 5 >months later I still sleep sporadically. I always did though. I’ve never had >”normal” sleep patterns and I think that is true with a lot of us. It is good >to see more people using Ibogaine. Randy

Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:19:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey:}
The only reason im taking the melatonin and other suplements is beacasuse im worried i wont be able to sleep at all:{{ AS for dreams when i do sleep the are very vivid,symbolic ,colorfull:}]
Best Regards
matt

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga >Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:42:22 -0500 (EST) > > >Hey Matt, for me it was hard to get exercise after Ibo, because I was exhausted all the time from lack of sleep, but if it’s possible to physically run your body, and then take a hot bath, maybe you could get some sleep. Also, I’ve heard of people who have reverse reactions to downers, where they actually feel peppy from taking them. Do you think maybe you’d sleep better without the melatonin, or do you notice that it makes you a little drowsy? I wondered because you said that you had insomnia while on opiates/benzos. I feel for you because I am the type of person who gets real crabby when I don’t sleep. Good Luck and let me know if you find something that worksLaura P.S. when you do get some sleep, how is your dream content? Do you have vivid dreams or don’t you remember them at all? Just curious.— On Thu 02/17, matthew zielinski < mattzielinski@hotmail.com > wrote:From: matthew zielinski [mailto: mattzielinski@hotmail.com]To: ibogaine@mindvox.comDate: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:33:13 -0800Subject: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga > > > > > >Hi all >Its been a month and 3 days since i had a session with Eboga for my heroin/meth habbit…I still continue to sleep only 2-3 hours a day. Is this normal? I had a history of anxiety/insomnia while using opiates…i could take 150mg of diazepam without becoming drowsy…i also did alot of other benzos is high amounts lorazepam clonzazepam bronazepam etc…as of now i am taking a lot of different homeopathic remedies plus melatonin 5htp and herbal suplemts but nothing works..any suggestions? >REgards >Matt > > > >Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] ]=———————————————————————=[/ > > >_______________________________________________ >No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding. >Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 4:59:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 4:51:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why people are so judgmental about determinate drugz ?

When I was In Afganistan, in Kabul in the 70s. I’ve seen a bunch of opium
house and I went to visit a couple .
Basicly, what I saw : kids laying down on carpet smoking opium. Something ,
I remember clearly the noise of the succion on the pipes. Another thing
peculiar: the Opium house will never open theirs wood shutters. Never!!!.
The door will open briefly to let enter a smoker. I have seen kids stuck for
month in theses dark room. I have seen later English teenager girls selling
for few roupies theirs bodies in the crowded bordello of Delhi.I’ ve seen a
German jounalist who could barely walk out of his room and was sweeting
something yellow. Lying on his bed, skinny as Gandhi he use to tell me , –
“look, I am sweeting my brain out.” …..

I have no simpathy for thief that you previously trust.

For me this type of drugs are thiefs that rob men and women from theirs
dignity and birth right to be happy.
francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 20:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

and for that matter, when it comes to drug reform, it’s a
definite risk to
speak out for our rights these days Nick, in that it’s ILLEGAL to use
currently illegal drugs, so when someone speaks up for drug users
rights,
they not only risk the “you druggie lover” labels, but also
investigations
and more horror for speaking out.
So right away drug users have a huge block to break through from the
get-go. While gay used to be illegal in some countries, one could
be gay and
not be arrested- it was only illegal to actually engage in gaydom- but
illegal drugs now, it’s illegal to even know people are
using/buying/selling
illegal drugs and NOT TURN THEM IN. That’s conspiracy to committ
crime, to
the best of my understanding, no?
So it’s not the same Nick, not even close.
It’s your predjudices that are at issue here I honestly
believe Nick, no
matter how you phrase it, and you’ve phrased it many different ways this
past week, every time saying the same thing- opiate users
shouldn’t be using
unless they have a good reason, one that Nick Sandberg feels is “good.”

I don’t believe in taking a drug long-term that represses awareness, it’s
true. I’m also not so against it like it’s evil or something. And for sure
nothing is Black and White, except when you need to change something. I
find
people who just want to hold a negative position a drag, this is also
true.
Part of me is ok with addicts, part of me is pissed off with them, part of
me loves them, and part of me is happy to push them a bit and see what
happens.

About the law, you have to take that on. Look for the myriad weakspots
when
it comes to enforcement and group-action, civil rights issues, and some
cops
own desire to see something positive happen with addiction. I don’t know
so
much about the US, I’m in the UK, but there’s a lot that can be
done….that
is if you don’t just imprison yourself in negative and self-limiting
beliefs. If you do then you get what happens, and you’re confimed to a
lifetime of blaming others. What pro-addiction forces want is for you to
believe that the position is hopeless, that the forces mounted against you
are too much to be overwhelmed. If you believe that then it’s pretty hard
to
move on anything. You always have a choice. If you don’t believe that,
take
the choice to dump your belief systems. You have the choice what you
believe.

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick, dude, I have to say something here. You ever hear of Wounded Knee.
Native Americans have been getting fucked ever since we came
here. I don’t
think that they are really treated any better now then they were
then. Seems
like Native Americans have quietly gathered forces on their own and put
effort into getting gambling and other things on the reservation. (I
hate
that word, why call something that was theirs in the first place a
reservation) I hope they get every dime they have coming to them. TWICE.
Anyway, what you are talking about would be great but, Gays, Non whites,
wise asses, whatever, are in the work force and some of them are
influential. Not many addicts can even admit they are addicted
and keep the
job they have. How in the hell is anyone supposed to rally forces
when they
can’t even keep a job to pay bills with? We live on the edge of society
cause nobody wants to deal with us. It hits too close to home and
everyone
else’s habits. Better to just shun us and keep us down. Does
society really
want to take an honest look at addiction and see all the
skeletons in just
about every family? Not just NO, but, FUCK NO. Randy

/]=—————————————————————
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From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 4:42:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Matt, for me it was hard to get exercise after Ibo, because I was exhausted all the time from lack of sleep, but if it’s possible to physically run your body, and then take a hot bath, maybe you could get some sleep. Also, I’ve heard of people who have reverse reactions to downers, where they actually feel peppy from taking them. Do you think maybe you’d sleep better without the melatonin, or do you notice that it makes you a little drowsy? I wondered because you said that you had insomnia while on opiates/benzos. I feel for you because I am the type of person who gets real crabby when I don’t sleep.
Good Luck and let me know if you find something that works
Laura

P.S. when you do get some sleep, how is your dream content? Do you have vivid dreams or don’t you remember them at all? Just curious.

— On Thu 02/17, matthew zielinski < mattzielinski@hotmail.com > wrote:

From: matthew zielinski [mailto: mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 13:33:13 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] ]=———————————————————————=[/

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] sleep after eboga
Date: February 17, 2005 at 4:33:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 4:02:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 20:35
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

/]=—————————————————————
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:46:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick wrote >For some people they are so overwhelmed by feelings on a daily basis that they actually need a form of sedation just to be functional. My thing is that it is socially useful to understand a drug in terms of its action. This is why I push for heroin addicts to recognize that their drug is a high-strength painkiller. It demystifies it, both for addict and fearing public. Once you start to take out the fear then the real issues with heroin can become clearer and be more usefully addressed.<

Hey, what do you know, I somewhat agree with you here Nick!
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: Nick Sandberg
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 19:05
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick, don’t you think all the promotion for the war on drugs is another reason that discrimination against drug users continues?

Hi Laura,

Yes, I do. I mean by no means is it an easy position. That was also the case for blacks, gays and other groups socially and governmentally discriminated against. The thing I was saying was that to change media and government attitudes these guys usually had to join together, form pressure groups and become politically active themselves. I can’t imagine that the shift in say US civil rights for black citizens would have occurred without the massive input from the group affected. If this is true then it seems reasonable that addicts may have to follow the same path. You can say that this isn’t democratic, I would agree. But it’s just that history unfortunately seems to show that this is how things work.

It’s hard to convince people to see drug users in a different light when the media all around them is infested with propaganda against drugs. Also, a majority of drug users themselves listen to what is being said about them and decide that they have a ‘disease’ that needs to be cured, and further promote the idea that drug users should be treated differently until they get ‘back to their senses’. When you become convinced that they are right, you generally don’t put up a fight. You also bring up the idea that things have changed for gays, but when I look around, I don’t see a lot of progressive change. Measures just passed making it illegal for gays to marry in many states, and I hear the word ‘fag’ used as a derogatory term on a regular basis.

In the late 90s I paid to stick up a load of posters around central London with messages like “1% of people in this city are addicted to one of the world’s most powerful painkillers – heroin.” My intent was to bring about some street level demystification. Don’t know how well it worked, probably just a drop in the ocean.

Nick

It would be pointless for me to continue to keep taking heroin for that reason, because it has served it’s purpose in that area, but it did help. Did you ever read Diary of a Drug Fiend? I know it’s probably somewhat of a cliche to bring this book up, but I read it a long time ago, and, if I remember correctly, Crowley brought up the point that drugs can be used to obtain certain goals, and this is not bad or evil, but it can be bad when drugs are keeping you from what YOUR pur pose is (not a purpose that someone else has decided for you, mind you). If I am totally misconstruing the book, I’m sorry, it’s been awhile, but that’s what I remember. I do understand what you mean about some people using opiates to run from feelings, as I have seen this myself, but substances don’t act the same on everyone, and I truly think that some people get something from opiates that benefits them.
Laura

— On Thu 02/17, Sara Glatt < sara119@xs4all.nl > wrote:

From: Sara Glatt [mailto: sara119@xs4all.nl]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:52:12 +0100
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 17 februari 2005 18:38
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwe rp: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 17:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Dear Francis,

First I need some education. Is bourgeois a marxist term or a premarxist
term?

As for, “A drunk is a drunk and an addict is an addict as far as
we can go
back
in history.”, I think you exclude the enormous variety of any human
experience but, more to point, the issue is not the state of the
individual but, how
they are viewed within society. And then we must separate how
one may be viewed
and what acts can be taken against them. There is no doubt in my
mind the
harrison narcotic act in the US and other similar acts and
conventions that
mandated narcotic and other drugs as taxed and then illegal and
t hen further
defined any act relating to obtaining the drug as illegal and
punishable by long
prison sentences and further that those persons using drugs are
not only tracked
by their acts but, by testing of their bodies for the presence of
drugs in
order to identify and punish them/force them into treatment has
resulted in
greater prejudice towards and stigmatization of drug users. It is this
stigmatization and prejudice that results, in my opinion, to
significantly increase the
psychiatric disorders in the drug using population and more
simply to create
an inhumane state of endless punishment that in itself aggravates
and makes
worse the condition of the drug user and drug use, marginalizing
users in society
in a manner similar to the status of homosexuals, blacks and jews
in states
where they are/have been marginalized and legislated against. This is a
terrible matter. And it is to break abruptly this entire system
that I have heralded
ibogaine for so much of my life.

Howard

Hi Howard,

For certain, in our society, addicts are subject to massive levels of
discrimination on the basis of their habit. What I find interesting is the
way that other groups who have suffered this in the past have managed to
make some changes whilst the plight of addicts seems to remain pretty much
the same. Gays, racial minorities, and others have all successfully
petitioned media and government for meaningful changes in how they are
portrayed socially and represented legally. Yet in comparison, for addicts,
little has happened.

Maybe addicts will think it’s a discriminatory stance, but for me I think
the difference is in the attitude of those suffering prejudice. Things
changed for gays when gays got active, for Indians when Indian s got active.
I don’t think so much happened when they relied on the good intentions of
those in society not actually suffering the discrimination. I don’t think
addicts have had so much success here. For me, the issue is the nature of
the substance they’re addicted to. Suffering discrimination for the use of a
drug which represses feelings means it can be difficult to be sufficiently
empowered to do anything about the discrimination. Little changes for
addicts legally and in public attitudes because the nature of our society,
and our psychology, dictates that you have to get up, in sufficient numbers,
and fight for change.

Nick

What about those who are using cocaine and have a very high political
position in the German parliament ?, in the Dutch parliament there is a lot
of alcohol boozin’ and it is very accepted, and Benzo is accepted too,
Sex addiction is accepted too. The only addictions who you could get
discriminated for are the illegal drug, it is not about how harmful drugs
are but what is legal and what’s not.

sara

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]=———————————————————————=[/

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:35:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and for that matter, when it comes to drug reform, it’s a definite risk to speak out for our rights these days Nick, in that it’s ILLEGAL to use currently illegal drugs, so when someone speaks up for drug users rights, they not only risk the “you druggie lover” labels, but also investigations and more horror for speaking out.
So right away drug users have a huge block to break through from the get-go. While gay used to be illegal in some countries, one could be gay and not be arrested- it was only illegal to actually engage in gaydom- but illegal drugs now, it’s illegal to even know people are using/buying/selling illegal drugs and NOT TURN THEM IN. That’s conspiracy to committ crime, to the best of my understanding, no?
So it’s not the same Nick, not even close.
It’s your predjudices that are at issue here I honestly believe Nick, no matter how you phrase it, and you’ve phrased it many different ways this past week, every time saying the same thing- opiate users shouldn’t be using unless they have a good reason, one that Nick Sandberg feels is “good.”

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick, dude, I have to say something here. You ever hear of Wounded Knee. Native Americans have been getting fucked ever since we came here. I don’t think that they are really treated any better now then they were then. Seems like Native Americans have quietly gathered forces on their own and put effort into getting gambling and other things on the reservation. (I hate that word, why call something that was theirs in the first place a reservation) I hope they get every dime they have coming to them. TWICE. Anyway, what you are talking about would be great but, Gays, Non whites, wise asses, whatever, are in the work force and some of them are influential. Not many addicts can even admit they are addicted and keep the job they have. How in the hell is anyone supposed to rally forces when they can’t even keep a job to pay bills with? We live on the edge of society cause nobody wants to deal with us. It hits too close to home and everyone else’s habits. Better to just shun us and keep us down. Does society really want to take an honest look at addiction and see all the skeletons in just about every family? Not just NO, but, FUCK NO. Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:21:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Little changes for
addicts legally and in public attitudes because the nature of our society,
and our psychology, dictates that you have to get up, in sufficient numbers,
and fight for change.<

I can’t help but be reminded of all the anti-marijuana propaganda about how pot makes users lethargic and uninspired and lackadasical Nick, and how even with all the propaganda pot users got up and changed the laws in what is it, 11 states in the US in the last few years- and yet, in many of them, while the cops and prohibitionists said over and over “if you don’t like the law, change it,” and the users did so, the cops and prohibitionists insist that it doesn’t matter, that pot is still evil and the users still must pay some kind of penalty, even if just a trip downtown and a ticket.
Every time you write something like this Nick, what I mainly see is your own personal predjudice against opiates.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 17:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Dear Francis,

First I need some education. Is bourgeois a marxist term or a premarxist
term?

As for, “A drunk is a drunk and an addict is an addict as far as
we can go
back
in history.”, I think you exclude the enormous variety of any human
experience but, more to point, the issue is not the state of the
individual but, how
they are viewed within society. And then we must separate how
one may be viewed
and what acts can be taken against them. There is no doubt in my
mind the
harrison narcotic act in the US and other similar acts and
conventions that
mandated narcotic and other drugs as taxed and then illegal and
then further
defined any act relating to obtaining the drug as illegal and
punishable by long
prison sentences and further that those persons using drugs are
not only tracked
by their acts but, by testing of their bodies for the presence of
drugs in
order to identify and punish them/force them into treatment has
resulted in
greater prejudice towards and stigmatization of drug users. It is this
stigmatization and prejudice that results, in my opinion, to
significantly increase the
psychiatric disorders in the drug using population and more
simply to create
an inhumane state of endless punishment that in itself aggravates
and makes
worse the condition of the drug user and drug use, marginalizing
users in society
in a manner similar to the status of homosexuals, blacks and jews
in states
where they are/have been marginalized and legislated against. This is a
terrible matter. And it is to break abruptly this entire system
that I have heralded
ibogaine for so much of my life.

Howard

Hi Howard,

Maybe addicts will think it’s a discriminatory stance, but for me I think
the difference is in the attitude of those suffering prejudice. Things
changed for gays when gays got active, for Indians when Indians got active.
I don’t think so much happened when they relied on the good intentions of
those in society not actually suffering the discrimination. I don’t think
addicts have had so much success here. For me, the issue is the nature of
the substance they’re addicted to. Suffering discrimination for the use of a
drug which represses feelings means it can be difficult to be sufficiently
empowered to do anything about the discrimination. Little changes for
addicts legally and in public attitudes because the nature of our society,
and our psychology, dictates that you have to get up, in sufficient numbers,
and fight for change.

Nick

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:13:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ll do whatever is in my power to do. Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] atrocities of a pale rider- john d. negroponte
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:11:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you know, it’s stories like this that make me wonder
why there have not been more Bush assassination
attempts…I mean, where the fuck are all the crazies
when you need them…

not that I endorse assassination or anything, but come
on- this is f*cking ridiculous.

__________________________________
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:10:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 17 February 2005 19:36
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Nick, dude, I have to say something here. You ever hear of Wounded Knee. Native Americans have been getting fucked ever since we came here. I don’t think that they are really treated any better now then they were then. Seems like Native Americans have quietly gathered forces on their own and put effort into getting gambling and other things on the reservation. (I hate that word, why call something that was theirs in the first place a reservation) I hope they get every dime they have coming to them. TWICE. Anyway, what you are talking about would be great but, Gays, Non whites, wise asses, whatever, are in the work force and some of them are influential. Not many addicts can even admit they are addicted and keep the job they have. How in the hell is anyone supposed to rally forces when they can’t even keep a job to pay bills with? We live on the edge of society cause nobody wants to deal with us. It hits too close to home and everyone else’s habits. Better to just shun us and keep us down. Does society really want to take an honest look at addiction and see all the skeletons in just about every family? Not just NO, but, FUCK NO. Randy

Hey Randy,

Well, I’m in the UK and don’t know so much about the plight of the native Americans but I’m sure you’re right. But it seems to me you’re finding a negative outcome to push for doing nothing – society’s fucked up and that’s how it is. I don’t take that position, personally. For sure, society will turn a blind eye and just sit in a prejudicial position given half a chance. But what if you take a position against that? Why not become the Martin Luther King of addicts? Someone’s gonna have to give it a try.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:05:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, don’t you think all the promotion for the war on drugs is another reason that discrimination against drug users continues?

Hi Laura,

Nick

— On Thu 02/17, Sara Glatt < sara119@xs4all.nl > wrote:

From: Sara Glatt [mailto: sara119@xs4all.nl]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:52:12 +0100
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

> —–Original Message—–
> From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
> Sent: 15 February 2005 17:34
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
>
>
> Dear Francis,
>
> First I need some education. Is bourgeois a marxist term or a premarxist
> term?
>
> As for, “A drunk is a drunk and an addict is an addict as far as
> we can go
> back
> in history.”, I think you exclude the enormous variety of any human
> experience but, more to point, the issue is not the state of the
> individual but, how
> they are viewed within society. And then we must separate how
> one may be viewed
> and what acts can be taken against them. There is no doubt in my
> mind the
> harrison narcotic act in the US and other similar acts and
> conventions that
> mandated narcotic and other drugs as taxed and then illegal and
> t hen further
> defined any act relating to obtaining the drug as illegal and
> punishable by long
> prison sentences and further that those persons using drugs are
> not only tracked
> by their acts but, by testing of their bodies for the presence of
> drugs in
> order to identify and punish them/force them into treatment has
> resulted in
> greater prejudice towards and stigmatization of drug users. It is this
> stigmatization and prejudice that results, in my opinion, to
> significantly increase the
> psychiatric disorders in the drug using population and more
> simply to create
> an inhumane state of endless punishment that in itself aggravates
> and makes
> worse the condition of the drug user and drug use, marginalizing
> users in society
> in a manner similar to the status of homosexuals, blacks and jews
> in states
> where they are/have been marginalized and legislated against. This is a
> terrible matter. And it is to break abruptly this entire system
> that I have heralded
> ibogaine for so much of my life.
>
> Howard
>

Hi Howard,

Nick

sara

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] atrocities of a pale rider- john d. negroponte
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:04:43 PM EST
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My friend and one of my heros Cele Castillo, lead DEA agent on the ground in El Salvador and a few other countries during the 80s (a hero even with his years as an anti-drug warrior- but he’s a bit changed nowadays) sent me (and a bunch of others too) this editorial this morning, in honor of Bush’s nominee, John D. Negroponte (how in the heck this guy isn’t serving time I do not…oh, hold on, he’s one of the insiders, of course I know, what am I thinking…must be this darned flu, has me feeling a bit befuddleded).
Enjoy.

http://www.drugwar.com/castillonegroponte.shtm

“And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was death, and hell followed with him”.
Revelation 6:7
The Atrocities of a Pale Rider-
John D. Negroponte
by
Celerino Castillo 3rd
posted at DrugWar.com
Feb. 17, 2005
The above biblical quotation is the only way I can describe John Dimitri Negroponte because of the atrocities he’s previously committed around the world.

From 1971 to 1973, Negroponte was the officer-in charge for Vietnam at the National Security Council under Henry Kissinger. During that period, former DEA Michael Levine was conducting undercover operations in Saigon, Thailand, and Cambodia where our government was smuggling heroin into the U.S. Our government was utilizing caskets and body bags of those “Killed In Action” to smuggled the heroin.

From 1981-1985, Negroponte was U.S. Ambassador to Honduras, where he illegally assisted the contra war and, most devastating, helped the Reagan administration in “disappearing” close to 300 political opponents in classic death squad fashion. He supervised the creation of the El Aguacate air base, which the Contras used as a secret detention and torture center. In August 2001, excavations at the base discovered 185 corpses, including two American missionaries. In May 1982, a nun, Sister Laetitia Bordes went on a fact-finding delegation to Honduras to investigate the whereabouts of thirty Salvadoran nuns who fled to Honduras in 1981. Negroponte claimed the embassy knew nothing. But in 1996, a U.S. newspaper interviewed Negroponte’s predecessor, Jack Binns. Binns said that a group of Salvadorans, among whom was Bordes, who had been captured on April 22, 1981, and savagely tortured by the Honduran Secret Police, and then later thrown out of helicopters, alive. Negroponte turned a deliberate blind eye to a murderous pattern of political killings. He orchestrated the famous death squad Battalion 316, which used shock and suffocation devices in interrogations. Prisoners were often kept naked and when no longer useful, killed and buried in unmarked graves. We have seen similar pictures of those atrocities committed by our service men and women in Iraq.

snip-

Lots more to make those of us with working hearts and minds really sick at the above URL

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:01:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy !
You wrote :
I’m sorry if I came across as a smart ass with my reply to you.

# Hey Randy , my question really look like a set up 🙂

Thank you for your help. I am saving all the idea and advices that I can get. I realize already that a month will be to short to accomplish a good foundation for a strong recovery. Seems like 3 months will be the perfect time frame. Two years is a long, long time, too long, then the individual will have hard time to adapt to our crazy world. I wil be using some powerful tools for change and in a couple of month you can have somebody fully motivated.Like a lion !!!. One thing too, toward the end of the seminar
( I don’t like the word rehab ) each participant should know how to administrate Ibogaine and to take care of somebody else.
They don’t have to feel like patients anymore but like healers.In my humble opinion, this is very important. In Africa, specialy on the East coast , or for esample in Cuba, the patient is initiated step by step to be himself a healer. If your social role is to cure, you are not anymore a patient. That is something I realy hated from AA/NA : ” my name is Tom I am an addict or alcoholic. Here we create and maintain a problem of identity. Even a full blown alcoholic in his last days of drinking, is a man who had an allergy to alcohol. and have a problem with the substance. I mean, that how I feel.Why to put a label on somebody ?

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Francis, I’m sorry if I came across as a smart ass with my reply to you, I guess I was feeling funny at the time. Anyway, I can see that your serious about this, and what you said about your place sounds a lot like the one a very good friend of mine and I were talking about starting in Kentucky. I feel very grateful that my friend would think enough of me to want to include me in even planning such a place. This guy has credentials in addiction and recovery and he is as serious as a heart attack about doing something like what you are talking about. I was in a residential treatment program for two and a half years. We ran the place. Everyone had a job and you had to do well to move up and get out of there. It changed me for the better but, way too many rules, and it took way to long to complete. I think some kind of 3 month program would be just about right. Get them Ibogaine treatment legally wherever, and then get them in the program and help them with sleep issues and the feelings that pop up during the first 2 weeks. Computers, musical instruments, all kinds of self help books and philosophy books, putting green, trails, deer observation stands in the woods, I could go on but, you get my meaning. BI weekly therapy for the first month and then weekly, someone available for stress issues at any time. We’ve talked about this at length and we both think that this will really help some people. At the end of this program we would try and help them on the path that they choose. I think the biggest thing would to be flexible and open minded. Now all we need is for Ibogaine to be legal and the cost would come down hugely for everyone involved. Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 2:36:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, dude, I have to say something here. You ever hear of Wounded Knee. Native Americans have been getting fucked ever since we came here. I don’t think that they are really treated any better now then they were then. Seems like Native Americans have quietly gathered forces on their own and put effort into getting gambling and other things on the reservation. (I hate that word, why call something that was theirs in the first place a reservation) I hope they get every dime they have coming to them. TWICE. Anyway, what you are talking about would be great but, Gays, Non whites, wise asses, whatever, are in the work force and some of them are influential. Not many addicts can even admit they are addicted and keep the job they have. How in the hell is anyone supposed to rally forces when they can’t even keep a job to pay bills with? We live on the edge of society cause nobody wants to deal with us. It hits too close to home and everyone else’s habits. Better to just shun us and keep us down. Does society really want to take an honest look at addiction and see all the skeletons in just about every family? Not just NO, but, FUCK NO. Randy

From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 2:05:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, don’t you think all the promotion for the war on drugs is another reason that discrimination against drug users continues? It’s hard to convince people to see drug users in a different light when the media all around them is infested with propaganda against drugs. Also, a majority of drug users themselves listen to what is being said about them and decide that they have a ‘disease’ that needs to be cured, and further promote the idea that drug users should be treated differently until they get ‘back to their senses’. When you become convinced that they are right, you generally don’t put up a fight. You also bring up the idea that things have changed for gays, but when I look around, I don’t see a lot of progressive change. Measures just passed making it illegal for gays to marry in many states, and I hear the word ‘fag’ used as a derogatory term on a regular basis.

In relation to some of your earlier posts, you always bring up your opinion that heroin represses feelings, and that may be true for some people, but for me personally, it was different. There were many details of my past that I never thought about until I did heroin. I didn’t even know I was running from these past events until I found myself thinking about them while high. Heroin actually relaxed me to the point where I could mentally bring issues up and think about them without having my defense mechanisms block the thoughts. This obviously is not the case for all people, but it actually helped me in a way. It would be pointless for me to continue to keep taking heroin for that reason, because it has served it’s purpose in that area, but it did help. Did you ever read Diary of a Drug Fiend? I know it’s probably somewhat of a cliche to bring this book up, but I read it a long time ago, and, if I remember correctly, Crowley brought up the point that drugs can be used to obtain certain goals, and this is not bad or evil, but it can be bad when drugs are keeping you from what YOUR purpose is (not a purpose that someone else has decided for you, mind you). If I am totally misconstruing the book, I’m sorry, it’s been awhile, but that’s what I remember. I do understand what you mean about some people using opiates to run from feelings, as I have seen this myself, but substances don’t act the same on everyone, and I truly think that some people get something from opiates that benefits them.
Laura

— On Thu 02/17, Sara Glatt < sara119@xs4all.nl > wrote:

From: Sara Glatt [mailto: sara119@xs4all.nl]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:52:12 +0100
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 17 februari 2005 18:38
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Hi Howard,

Maybe addicts will think it’s a discriminatory stance, but for me I think
the difference is in the attitude of those suffering prejudice. Things
changed for gays when gays got active, for Indians when Indians got active.
I don’t think so much happened when they relied on the good intentions of
those in society not actually suffering the discrimination. I don’t think
addicts have had so much success here. For me, the issue is the nature of
the substance they’re addicted to. Suffering discrimination for the use of a
drug which represses feelings means it can be difficult to be sufficiently
empowered to do anything about the discrimination. Little changes for
addicts legally and in public attitudes because the nature of our society,
and our psychology, dictates that you have to get up, in sufficient numbers,
and fight for change.

Nick

sara

/]=———————————————————————=[
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

]=———————————————————————=[/

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: <shamaness@adelphia.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogainepleezletgo
Date: February 17, 2005 at 1:58:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>MORE FUN! >LESS STUFF! >MAKE ART* >NOT WAR :( >LUV - >NOT >SUV!  zz

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 12:52:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Verzonden: donderdag 17 februari 2005 18:38
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 17:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Dear Francis,

First I need some education. Is bourgeois a marxist term or a premarxist
term?

As for, “A drunk is a drunk and an addict is an addict as far as
we can go
back
in history.”, I think you exclude the enormous variety of any human
experience but, more to point, the issue is not the state of the
individual but, how
they are viewed within society. And then we must separate how
one may be viewed
and what acts can be taken against them. There is no doubt in my
mind the
harrison narcotic act in the US and other similar acts and
conventions that
mandated narcotic and other drugs as taxed and then illegal and
then further
defined any act relating to obtaining the drug as illegal and
punishable by long
prison sentences and further that those persons using drugs are
not only tracked
by their acts but, by testing of their bodies for the presence of
drugs in
order to identify and punish them/force them into treatment has
resulted in
greater prejudice towards and stigmatization of drug users. It is this
stigmatization and prejudice that results, in my opinion, to
significantly increase the
psychiatric disorders in the drug using population and more
simply to create
an inhumane state of endless punishment that in itself aggravates
and makes
worse the condition of the drug user and drug use, marginalizing
users in society
in a manner similar to the status of homosexuals, blacks and jews
in states
where they are/have been marginalized and legislated against. This is a
terrible matter. And it is to break abruptly this entire system
that I have heralded
ibogaine for so much of my life.

Howard

Hi Howard,

Maybe addicts will think it’s a discriminatory stance, but for me I think
the difference is in the attitude of those suffering prejudice. Things
changed for gays when gays got active, for Indians when Indians got active.
I don’t think so much happened when they relied on the good intentions of
those in society not actually suffering the discrimination. I don’t think
addicts have had so much success here. For me, the issue is the nature of
the substance they’re addicted to. Suffering discrimination for the use of a
drug which represses feelings means it can be difficult to be sufficiently
empowered to do anything about the discrimination. Little changes for
addicts legally and in public attitudes because the nature of our society,
and our psychology, dictates that you have to get up, in sufficient numbers,
and fight for change.

Nick

sara

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen
Date: February 17, 2005 at 12:37:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 17:34
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] history of addiction further to Peter Cohen

Dear Francis,

First I need some education. Is bourgeois a marxist term or a premarxist
term?

As for, “A drunk is a drunk and an addict is an addict as far as
we can go
back
in history.”, I think you exclude the enormous variety of any human
experience but, more to point, the issue is not the state of the
individual but, how
they are viewed within society. And then we must separate how
one may be viewed
and what acts can be taken against them. There is no doubt in my
mind the
harrison narcotic act in the US and other similar acts and
conventions that
mandated narcotic and other drugs as taxed and then illegal and
then further
defined any act relating to obtaining the drug as illegal and
punishable by long
prison sentences and further that those persons using drugs are
not only tracked
by their acts but, by testing of their bodies for the presence of
drugs in
order to identify and punish them/force them into treatment has
resulted in
greater prejudice towards and stigmatization of drug users. It is this
stigmatization and prejudice that results, in my opinion, to
significantly increase the
psychiatric disorders in the drug using population and more
simply to create
an inhumane state of endless punishment that in itself aggravates
and makes
worse the condition of the drug user and drug use, marginalizing
users in society
in a manner similar to the status of homosexuals, blacks and jews
in states
where they are/have been marginalized and legislated against. This is a
terrible matter. And it is to break abruptly this entire system
that I have heralded
ibogaine for so much of my life.

Howard

Hi Howard,

Maybe addicts will think it’s a discriminatory stance, but for me I think
the difference is in the attitude of those suffering prejudice. Things
changed for gays when gays got active, for Indians when Indians got active.
I don’t think so much happened when they relied on the good intentions of
those in society not actually suffering the discrimination. I don’t think
addicts have had so much success here. For me, the issue is the nature of
the substance they’re addicted to. Suffering discrimination for the use of a
drug which represses feelings means it can be difficult to be sufficiently
empowered to do anything about the discrimination. Little changes for
addicts legally and in public attitudes because the nature of our society,
and our psychology, dictates that you have to get up, in sufficient numbers,
and fight for change.

Nick

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 12:07:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Not sure about the States, but there ARE 21 day
methadone programs, but it seems most doctors/patients
shy away from them, as MAINTENANCE seems to be the
standard here in Toronto. This is probably because,
like Martee said, the 21 day program is a joke, and
most people end up hooked on methadone.

I have never met anyone who has used a 21 day
methadone reduction program with success.

Julie

__________________________________
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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 11:49:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard
I was on a 21 day methadone “de-tox” at Bridge Plaza Clinic here in nyc (queens) many years ago. they started at 40mg’s and went down to 5 mg’s over 21 days…of course within 3-4 days of being cut loose I was hurting badly ( iwas never really comfortable the entire few weeks)….they also had a 6 mo taper detox but again cut you loose at 5mg’s. That was a disaster for me as well imo they were insane to think someone could go from 5 mg’s and then to 0 on their own…. they would tell you to take some nyquil if you needed relief from the residual w/d’s.
when i went on the methadone program i was to be on for 10 years till 3 mos ago(!) they were a “maintenance” program and dosed high and never expected you to leave…when Mayor G came to power and welfare reform started they changed to a “methadone to abstinence” clinic (their words) and though they didn’t pressure me a lot they did more than before and many others as well. They also put into place a ton of new rules about working and forced non-working patients to attend groups and all sorts of things ( i have always worked so do not know much about that but saw all the schedules and signs about them at the clinic)i am sure they would not have made me taper but they always suggested it whereas before they never even brought it up.When they did discuss tapering they said they will taper you down slowly as you like to 1 mg which I think is a much more realistic …
see ya saturday
Jeff

From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 10:20:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Martee,
I tried the 3 day methadone trick a few years ago and was still having withdrawals, and that’s when I talked to some doctor in a clinic who explained why it wouldn’t work. But, maybe they just wanted me to get on MMT instead of trying it again and possibly succeeding and therefore losing that 80 bucks a week. Of course, I was also in no way ‘really’ wanting to stop, so that could have something to do with it not working.
Laura

— On Thu 02/17, m.finman < mafinman@optonline.net > wrote:

From: m.finman [mailto: mafinman@optonline.net]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 00:15:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Laura,
I never thought that to be the case. I never experienced that to be
the case. The thing with doing the methedone for only 3-4 days is because
you are NOT YET ADDICTED to it in that period of time yet the heroin
withdrawl is either finished or tolerable with a few puffs or a valium.
Because I know this to be a fact for me anyway, is one of the reasons I know
that 21 day detox methedone progrms are not to get you off of dope but to
addict you to methedone. Will the person who successfully walked away from
a 21 day detox PLEASE stand up!!! Anyone left off at 5mgs go through a
whole lot. Same with 2mgs! Needless to say once you are addicted to
methedone this does not apply.
This method is for the physical aspect only! But it beats the hell out
of some of the other options. The cravings were always there, but I believe
it was more a desire to continuing to medicate my world. The cravings were
not physically motivated.
Martee

—– Original Message —–
From: thethird@myway.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Martee, I thought that anything that holds your opiate receptors will keep
you addicted. Don’t heroin and methadone act on the same receptors? So, if
you substitute methadone for heroin, you are not ever going to be able to
detox because you are still filling your opiate receptors, (and you are
actually giving yourself an opiate that is even harder to kick).
Laura

— On Wed 02/16, m.finman < mafinman@optonline.net > wrote:

From: m.finman [mailto: mafinman@optonline.net]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:12:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Donna,
If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of
methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all
my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used
again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it
works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you
have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will
hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more.
By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may
be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re
using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are
definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly
known thing? Just a thought.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 6:08 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

HI Francis

I dont know if I class as a scholar of addiction, but I have been addicted
to Heroin for many years, the best way to help me would be to find the
easiest most painless way to get off heroin wi thout becoming an addicted to
another drug, I am desparate to come off and I have a supply of subutex but
the thing thats stopping me is I then have to come off that ( which for me
personally was horrendous last time) So for me access to ibogaine and
provider hope this answers your question.
Take care
Love Donna

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 9:11:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “pigchips” <pigchips@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 9:07:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Hi Martee

love donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 9:03:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee

love donna

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 8:34:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,
The methedone clinics that I’ve been aware of from NY to Calif. all offered a 21 day detox where you start at35mg for 1or 2 days go to 40 for 3or 4 days and then they take you down until on day 21 you are either on 5mgs because that is the lowest they can go with the form of methedone they use, or 2 mg if it is liquid. As far as whatever works is ok, I agree, however, this doesn’t work even without considering the aspect that it’s only physical and one would still use. It does work for them as it addicts you to methedone. I’ve always seen this as the drug co’s hook! I used to bounce back and forth from one clinic to the next doing stints on their 21 days because you had to wait a few weeks to do it again. In california at that time 10.00 per day to have a place to get a dose to get well just helped me function better as a junkie if I needed it.
As far as being left at 5 mgs, people think it is such a relatively small number especially for someone that’s been dosed on 80 or over 100, you go through worse withdrawl off of 5mg that what you were trying to avoid in the first place. I remember my first awareness of methedone was in the late 60’s. They were little white pills and 5mgs each. I recall one of these maybe 2 would completely get you well. And the drugs were very potent back then if I recall correctly. This is another reason why I think the high doses just give you a tolerance and then they increase you. All the years I was on the methedone maintainance the only time my dose would not hold me was when I was taking someother thing in the narcotic or pill world to get high. It would eat up the methedone in my system and leave me really sick the next day. Once during an extended hospitalization the antibiotics did this and I requested my dose broke up into 4xper day instead of once. Once you’re sick it takes 3 days to get your dose adjusted back to your system.
I really thought all this stuff was in the junkie handbook and was common knowledge. I don’t usually like to do the junkie rant thing, but you asked.
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Martee,

I think that methadone can be used in various short term regimens to
significantly reduce opioid withdrawal. What you have is cross tolerance to opioids,
going from heroin to methadone rather than “addiction” to one opioid for
another. I am also not sure what you mean by a 21 day methadone taper? (my
words) I was aware of 21 day inhospital programs where methadone and other
medications would be provided for the first seven days and then continuation of
sleeping medication or other adjunct medications until discharge. If you stayed
for the entire program you would be 14 days off methadone. Are there programs
where methadone is supplied for 21 days? Probably so in this world and nothing
wrong with that but, can you or others following this thread provide
information on opioid reduction therapies/regimens you are aware of? Thanks. And,
anything that works is OK.

Howard

In a message dated 2/17/05 12:16:19 AM, mafinman@optonline.net writes:

<< Laura,

I never thought that to be the case. I never experienced that to be

the case. The thing with doing the methedone for only 3-4 days is because

you are NOT YET ADDICTED to it in that period of time yet the heroin

withdrawl is either finished or tolerable with a few puffs or a valium.

Because I know this to be a fact for me anyway, is one of the reasons I know

that 21 day detox methedone progrms are not to get you off of dope but to

addict you to methedone. Will the person who successfully walked away from

a 21 day detox PLEASE stand up!!! Anyone left off at 5mgs go through a

whole lot. Same with 2mgs! Needless to say once you are addicted to

methedone this does not apply.

This method is for the physical aspect only! But it beats the hell out

of some of the other options. The cravings were always there, but I believe

it was more a desire to continuing to medicate my world. The cravings were

not physically motivated.

Martee

—– Original Message —–
From: thethird@myway.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:28 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Martee, I thought that anything that holds your opiate receptors will keep

you addicted. Don’t heroin and methadone act on the same receptors? So, if

you substitute methadone for heroin, you are not ever going to be able to

detox because you are still filling your opiate receptors, (and you are

actually giving yourself an opiate that is even harder to kick).

Laura

— On Wed 02/16, m.finman < mafinman@optonline.net > wrote:

From: m.finman [mailto: mafinman@optonline.net]

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:12:09 -0500

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Donna,

If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of

methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all

my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used

again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it

works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you

have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will

hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more.

By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may

be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re

using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are

definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly

known thing? Just a thought.

Martee

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 6:08 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

HI Francis

I dont know if I class as a scholar of addiction, but I have been addicted

to Heroin for many years, the best way to help me would be to find the

easiest most painless way to get off heroin without becoming an addicted to

another drug, I am desparate to come off and I have a supply of subutex but

the thing thats stopping me is I then have to come off that ( which for me

personally was horrendous last time) So for me access to ibogaine and

provider hope this answers your question.

Take care

Love Donna >>

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston
Date: February 17, 2005 at 7:38:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s the same as the judgments, it’s making use of the Blacks and
the Whites, not just the greys. The mind has the power to distinguish for a
purpose, and it’s good.<

i find beauty in the blacks, whites AND greys Nick.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 20:03
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

I wrote >And on that note, what do you mean, casting asperations
at opiate
users
when you’ve no clue what they are really going through or experiencing or
feeling? How can you state so insistantly that you know what’s best for
opiate users and abusers when you really haven’t a clue what each
and every
individual is experiencing while using opiates? I can only speak for me,
really, but I can be supportive of others’ free will and choice to quit or
not quit using opiates/alcohol/pot/sex/excercise/overeating/etc, etc, and
will be, so long as it isn’t imposing on me or others.<

I must admit I didn’t know about the brother until I finished reading
Carla’s note, which I hadn’t done when firing off the last note.
It doesn’t
really change much, but it does give me personally more insight
to where you
might be coming from Nick. I did not know about your brother, and yes, I
imagine it might be rough to see a loved one go through what you
think is a
really bad space (and under current prohibition policies quite often is a
really bad space). But love instead of judgement I bet would be more
effective for your brother- I’m not saying, “hand him cash whenever he
asks,” or “pamper him,” more just “don’t cut him outta your life”
(not that
you have/are, as I do not know what your situation is with him). Anyway,
have a day all.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Love vs Judgement. OK. Do some encounter groups, man, you’re gonna see that
they’re actually the same thing. I mean this. Really.

As to rehab, and a closely related thread. My position is that there’s no
easy answer to addiction, but that the easy answers are most definitely
useful. It’s the same as the judgments, it’s making use of the Blacks and
the Whites, not just the greys. The mind has the power to distinguish for a
purpose, and it’s good.

Nick

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house
Date: February 17, 2005 at 7:28:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no, not that I know of, but don’t hold me to that.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 4:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house

Is it like Subutex???????????????

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house
Date: February 17, 2005 at 7:24:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and I think it’s spelled dilaudid.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house

Hi
What is diladid????????

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house
Date: February 17, 2005 at 7:24:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

its what I’m prescribed for pain actually, along with morphine sulphate.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house

Hi
What is diladid????????

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 7:19:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I kicked dope by using methadon in London for a few days, just three or four, but that was it. and got off a fairly large habit (at least for a month or two before picking back up again), with little to no pain, substituting methadone for heroin.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: thethird@myway.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Martee, I thought that anything that holds your opiate receptors will keep you addicted. Don’t heroin and methadone act on the same receptors? So, if you substitute methadone for heroin, you are not ever going to be able to detox because you are still filling your opiate receptors, (and you are actually giving yourself an opiate that is even harder to kick).
Laura

— On Wed 02/16, m.finman < mafinman@optonline.net > wrote:

From: m.finman [mailto: mafinman@optonline.net]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:12:09 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

Donna,
If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more. By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly known thing? Just a thought.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 6:08 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?

HI Francis

I dont know if I class as a scholar of addiction, but I have been addicted to Heroin for many years, the best way to help me would be to find the easiest most painless way to get off heroin without becoming an addicted to another drug, I am desparate to come off and I have a supply of subutex but the thing thats stopping me is I then have to come off that ( which for me personally was horrendous last time) So for me access to ibogaine and provider hope this answers your question.
Take care
Love Donna

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:38:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 21:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

I don’t want to say “screw you” to Nick.

Aahhhh…. I was just joking. You know, trying to be funny. I appreciate
your manners Preston. I’m always amused in a good way by the “Nick, you
ignorant slut fascist, peace and love, Preston.” We can only hope
that shit
is stirred so intelligently and politely at the conference. Otherwise it
just becomes preaching to the choir. It would be nice to have you guys go
somewhere with this all. Perhaps we are. No reason to yell.

A commune? Nick, for some reason that slipped my mind… Isn’t it
tough to
keep strident ideals in a community of individuals?

Hi Steve,

Yes, we don’t have them. The resolution of conflicts is the core of
community.

Isn’t there always a
conflict between the good of the group and the needs and freedoms of the
individual? Compromise is needed, correct?

The sequence is Encounter – you put all your negative judgments out face to
face, totally. Emotional Release – you just scream it out face to face.
Love – you hug and put out positive judgments. If this doesn’t resolve the
conflicts then, yes, you compromise. It’s meaningless to compromise without
the process. You’re just giving up power without gaining awareness and this
just leads to resentment and schizm in the group.

Nick

Taste and color are
different for
all. The most oppressive time of my life was when I was at a commune type
farm with all these well-intentioned Quaker hippies. They knew what was
best. Peace, love and vegetarianism. I couldn’t stop myself from eating
giant steaks and sharing cheerful and inspiring excerpts from
‘Mein Kampf.’
Just my nature I guess. On the other hand I feel the best
community/society
is a village, so go figure.

A little pop psychology stab in the dark – Nick, is your view of
addiction
and addicts colored by your experience with your brother? The
hardest thing
in the world is to see someone you love hurt themselves.

Peace out,
Steve.

PS: Carla, a darn good talk show indeed… or perhaps a ‘reality’
show. What
a cast of characters. Put ’em on a desert island, throw in a bikini clad
temptress to stir it up and bingo! Nick does dope, Dana and Peter do ibo,
and poor Preston misses V terribly. Or maybe Dr. Phil could help. Jerry
Springer anyone? Just kidding…

/]=—————————————————————
——=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[
/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:33:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 20:03
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

Love vs Judgement. OK. Do some encounter groups, man, you’re gonna see that
they’re actually the same thing. I mean this. Really.

Nick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:26:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 19:43
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

Carla wrote >I don’t know his
name sorry, but it was John Hopkins medical center he
founded)<
—–

http://www.surgical-tutor.org.uk/default-home.htm?surgeons/halstea
d.htm~right

William Halstead (1852-1922)
—–

To be honest Steven, I don’t know why we (Nick and I) can’t continue
debating online. I don’t want to say “screw you” to Nick.

Oh go on, Preston, you know you want to really. I mean, I can’t read all
this stuff, man. I have work to do. I can’t just argue endlessly anymore.
Used to be able to, don’t know what happened.

Nick

It’s an honest
disagreement, and while I myself am really bent out of shape over what I
percieve as his descrimination towards opiate users, along with all his
blanket assertions about opiate users’ lives being boring, I still favor
“peace and love” as opposed to “screw you.” (Though, yes, I’ll admit,
there’ve been a few times now when yes, that’s a more honest spur of the
moment feeling, but I try to resist that as much as possible, as
it usually
merely exacerbates the heated disagreement and rarely brings anyone to my
point of view. Not that I always succeed at resisting, but I do try.)

But I’m not about to pay a phone bill to England just to debate
this issue
with Nick on the phone, nor do I particularly feel like
discussing it on the
phone regardless of makes the call or who’s paying the bill.
I’m a writer and reader, so why not write it out Nick?
Explain it to me
(and us) here so it doesn’t sound like you’re looking down on poor, still
addled(?) opiate users, please, or don’t if you don’t want to,
it’s all ok
with me. But I don’t really see a reason to pick up the phone for
this Nick,
it’s a public disagreement I don’t feel like taking to the
private realm at
this point. No offense, but I don’t want to.
And of course, each time I feel like disagreeing with you
onlist I will
continue to do so. I hope that doesn’t stop you from voicing your views
here, as it gives me food for thought, even as strongly as I
disagree with
you.
You never-been-a-junkie you.
And on that note, what do you mean, casting asperations at
opiate users
when you’ve no clue what they are really going through or experiencing or
feeling? How can you state so insistantly that you know what’s best for
opiate users and abusers when you really haven’t a clue what each
and every
individual is experiencing while using opiates? I can only speak for me,
really, but I can be supportive of others’ free will and choice
to quit or
not quit using opiates/alcohol/pot/sex/excercise/overeating/etc, etc, and
will be, so long as it isn’t imposing on me or others.
That means committing actual crimes for your information btw, like
breaking and entering, armed robbery, drunk/doped driving, etc.
Egad, I’ve ranted again.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

What a fun day. LMAO. Thanks for this Steven 🙂

Nick, besides what Steven said about many people who
did a lot of good for all humanity who were heroin
addicts. (and I dont mean only entertainers or the
stereotype of the musician on drugs, but doctors, I
think patrick posted here once that the father of
modern surgery who invented current surgical
procedures was a life long junkie. I don’t know his
name sorry, but it was John Hopkins medical center he
founded)

You said you live in a commune, couldn’t someone else
just as easily take everything you have ever said
about heroin addicts and apply it to you? Pull you out
of your house and go take part in the real world
instead of hiding in some fantasy world for people who
can’t handle the real world. Go get a job, why don’t
you have a family yet, are you a homosexual?

Sorry this is taking it way out there and I’ve
included the one rant of Dr. Cohen’s I thought
noxious, but I too am really tired of seeing the Nick
and Preston it will never end debate over who is
right. In one corner is Preston who is a sweet guy who
I like very much who is a drug user, has done ibogaine
and keeps contributing. In the other corner is someone
who has also done ibogaine, was never a addict, has a
brother he couldn’t get clean, lives in a commune and
runs one of the major ibogaine sites.

Borrowing Steven’s comments, if you add in Dr. Cohen
and Dana as representing people who have never done
ibogaine, I think there are all the elements for a
great talk show episode about very disturbed people!
🙂

Carla B

— Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Nick ‘n Preston,

Hope you guys can have a good conversation and
perhaps gain a better
understanding of each other.
Sadly, this may mean we no longer can read the
delightful back and forth. If
anyone changes his mind about anything, let us know.

Nick, some things to think about: Judging is perhaps
best left in god’s
hand. What’s right for me isn’t necessarily right
for you. Don’t we get into
all sorts of trouble when we assume we know what’s
right for others? The
road to hell is paved with good intentions.

See if this example makes sense: Heroin is a really
great drug, I mean it’s
lovely. Many feel normal for the first time and
actually accomplish a great
deal. Dr.’s, musicians and others have all been
known to taste, get hooked
and get shit done. Some it helps. If I think it’s
such a great thing, does
that mean I must get you to try it? Many think that
in order to really help
an addict, one must know addiction first hand. OK,
then I think it’s
essential that you get hooked for a year or two to
be able to really help
the addict out. Does that mean it’s a good idea? Bad
ideas can become good
ideas with the proper salesman. What’s good and bad
always seems to change
through the ages and always struck me as relative.
Yes, we all want to help
and make a difference, but can we be sure we are not
causing harm?

In my experience I rarely see anyone kick drugs if
they are doing it for
anyone else other than themselves. A selfish and
stubborn group of people,
those addicts. External forces don’t work that well.
They must choose to
quit on there own. Sometimes, “I’m leaving you if
you don’t quit” works, but
usually the user has been wanting to quit anyway and
it’s a good kick in the
pants. Usually addicts I know feel ambivalent about
quitting, yeah I want to
but my head’ so fucked up that I need the drugs to
keep from putting a
bullet in my head. I think ibo is effective because
it does fix your head,
but I would never tell anyone they HAVE to quit and
they HAVE to use
Ibogaine. Sure, I’m better off for it, but it is not
for everyone. It does
kill a few people. Those who are brutally raped by
aliens during their trip
never seem so thankful. A friend has done ibo a few
times, always goes back
to smack. She has finally managed to kick – with
methadone, so who’s to
know?

Preston feels he needs his meds, does that give him
a sacred duty to get you
try some of his medicine?

“Preston, this is great! For the first time I really
feel pure love, sure
it’s fake, but I don’t care. I mean this is better
than my mother’s womb!”

“Ahhh Nick, I think you are such a great guy.”

This is probably beating a dead dog with a dull
hammer, but what the hell,
words are cheap. All voices need to be heard and
hopefully can co-exist.

And Nick, I wouldn’t whisper anything into your ear
about your girlfriend.
It’s only fun if it’s a coke addled stock-broker.

Preston, why do you always end your rants at Nick
with a “Peace and love?”
Wouldn’t “Screw you Nick” be more honest?

Peace and Love,
Steve

/]=—————————————————————
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\]=—————————————————————
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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:24:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 18:48
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

What a fun day. LMAO. Thanks for this Steven 🙂

But, baby, I’ve lived in this real world and it’s dull, dull, dull. Well,
not all the time but I’ve just got too much energy for the whole 9-5 deal
these days. Yes, I could take heroin to deal with that, but I thought I’d
try another option. Gay? Well, a bit, but not so much, still get this
occasional thing for cute bald guys but I don’t follow it up. Don’t have a
family, it’s true, but in community it’s like a big family. I do go through
mindfucks about having kids or not still, but my girlfriend has already got
a couple and doesn’t want more. I could leave her but I just love her too
much. You see my predicament?

Let’s do it!

love

Nick

Carla B

— Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Nick ‘n Preston,

In my experience I rarely see anyone kick drugs if
they are doing it for
anyone else other than themselves. A selfish and
stubborn group of people,
those addicts. External forces dont work that well.
They must choose to
quit on there own. Sometimes, “I’m leaving you if
you don’t quit” works, but
usually the user has been wanting to quit anyway and
it’s a good kick in the
pants. Usually addicts I know feel ambivalent about
quitting, yeah I want to
but my head’ so fucked up that I need the drugs to
keep from putting a
bullet in my head. I think ibo is effective because
it does fix your head,
but I would never tell anyone they HAVE to quit and
they HAVE to use
Ibogaine. Sure, I’m better off for it, but it is not
for everyone. It does
kill a few people. Those who are brutally raped by
aliens during their trip
never seem so thankful. A friend has done ibo a few
times, always goes back
to smack. She has finally managed to kick – with
methadone, so who’s to
know?

Preston feels he needs his meds, does that give him
a sacred duty to get you
try some of his medicine?

“Preston, this is great! For the first time I really
feel pure love, sure
it’s fake, but I don’t care. I mean this is better
than my mother’s womb!”

“Ahhh Nick, I think you are such a great guy.”

This is probably beating a dead dog with a dull
hammer, but what the hell,
words are cheap. All voices need to be heard and
hopefully can co-exist.

And Nick, I wouldn’t whisper anything into your ear
about your girlfriend.
It’s only fun if it’s a coke addled stock-broker.

Preston, why do you always end your rants at Nick
with a Peace and love?
Wouldnt Screw you Nick be more honest?

Peace and Love,
Steve

/]=—————————————————————
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

/]=—————————————————————
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
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/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:20:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston
Date: February 17, 2005 at 5:16:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Sent: 15 February 2005 18:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick ‘n Preston

Nick ‘n Preston,

Hope you guys can have a good conversation and perhaps gain a better
understanding of each other.
Sadly, this may mean we no longer can read the delightful back
and forth. If
anyone changes his mind about anything, let us know.

Nick, some things to think about: Judging is perhaps best left in god’s
hand. What’s right for me isn’t necessarily right for you. Don’t
we get into
all sorts of trouble when we assume we know what’s right for others? The
road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Hey Steve,

Well, personally I’m cool with judging. God judges the world through our
minds, that’s my take. And, I figure, if you’re going to take the stand and
judge you also have to listen to feedback. Which I do, I might not always
change my mind but I do listen.

As to the road to hell, well, Halleluliah actually means “Hell lights the
way to God.” [Halle Lu Lee Yah] Thought you would have known that one!

See if this example makes sense: Heroin is a really great drug, I
mean it’s
lovely. Many feel normal for the first time and actually
accomplish a great
deal. Dr.’s, musicians and others have all been known to taste,
get hooked
and get shit done. Some it helps. If I think it’s such a great
thing, does
that mean I must get you to try it? Many think that in order to
really help
an addict, one must know addiction first hand. OK, then I think it’s
essential that you get hooked for a year or two to be able to really help
the addict out. Does that mean it’s a good idea? Bad ideas can
become good
ideas with the proper salesman. What’s good and bad always seems
to change
through the ages and always struck me as relative. Yes, we all
want to help
and make a difference, but can we be sure we are not causing harm?

Well, I’d certainly considering getting hooked for a couple of years, I’m
not against in principle. I’d have to undergo a bit of a radical lifestyle
change, specially since I went to all the trouble to move away from Soho and
then Kings X a couple of years back, and it would be tricky with my girl and
stuff, but I’m not against the idea.

In my experience I rarely see anyone kick drugs if they are doing it for
anyone else other than themselves. A selfish and stubborn group
of people,
those addicts. External forces don’t work that well. They must choose to
quit on there own. Sometimes, “I’m leaving you if you don’t quit”
works, but
usually the user has been wanting to quit anyway and it’s a good
kick in the
pants. Usually addicts I know feel ambivalent about quitting,
yeah I want to
but my head’ so fucked up that I need the drugs to keep from putting a
bullet in my head. I think ibo is effective because it does fix
your head,
but I would never tell anyone they HAVE to quit and they HAVE to use
Ibogaine. Sure, I’m better off for it, but it is not for
everyone. It does
kill a few people. Those who are brutally raped by aliens during
their trip
never seem so thankful. A friend has done ibo a few times, always
goes back
to smack. She has finally managed to kick – with methadone, so who’s to
know?

Preston feels he needs his meds, does that give him a sacred duty
to get you
try some of his medicine?

“Preston, this is great! For the first time I really feel pure love, sure
it’s fake, but I don’t care. I mean this is better than my mother’s womb!”

“Ahhh Nick, I think you are such a great guy.”

This is probably beating a dead dog with a dull hammer, but what
the hell,
words are cheap. All voices need to be heard and hopefully can co-exist.

And Nick, I wouldn’t whisper anything into your ear about your
girlfriend.
It’s only fun if it’s a coke addled stock-broker.

Preston, why do you always end your rants at Nick with a “Peace
and love?”
Wouldn’t “Screw you Nick” be more honest?

Yeah, well, I’ve ended rants with Love so we’re probably equal in that.

Love

Nick

Peace and Love,
Steve

/]=—————————————————————
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 4:44:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, I got started on Methadone in a 21 day taper program. I had 2 major colon surgeries in 85 and with the DR’s dope and what I got myself I had to do something about my addiction. I can’t remember the doses, but I started out getting a slight buzz on the first dose, so instantly I thought, this is cool. They took me up to 40 mg’s pretty fast. I think the thought at the time was that 40 mg’s was the blocking dose. When I started going down I didn’t really notice at first, but soon I started to panic. I think at the point of 25 mgs or so, I went to the Dr. and requested to be on maintenance, and I was in. Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug rehab: is it just another addiction?
Date: February 17, 2005 at 3:34:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com