Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-12

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:40:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/31/2005 9:45:56 PM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Should i stop communicating as Capt KIrk? ;o)
does it really matter?
As long as you are not a Klingon I don’t think it matters. Those Klingons are a whole other story!
Callie
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:57:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
lol, there was no point to what i wrote, it was purely my
wierd sense of humour ;o)
—– Original Message Follows —–
ahahah… good point, maybe that wasn’t the best example
to use =)
captkirk wrote:
Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy
Pants.
From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am
talking Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they
do in some way cause nerve and/or brain damage.
Luff lite n Lafta
to all
Happy noo yeahsss
I have showered for the last time this year.
yahoo.
Kirk xxx
—– Original Message Follows —–
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot
conclude from such a  study that opiates CAUSE brain
damage, rather it is evidence that such  drug use is
ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference
between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain
damage. Let’s say  for some reason, cocaine users like
to >>wear baggie pants. If you did a  study like this one,
then >>you would find that wearing baggy pants is
associated >>with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie
pants >>themselves  do not cause the brain damage, they
are just >>correlated with something  that does, i.e. the
cocaine >>use. In this study you posted, there is no  way
to tell if >>the opiates cause the brain damage or just
happen to be  >>correlated with something else that does,
like maybe poor >>nutrition or  lack of sleep or
something. >>
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first
because it studied  twice as many drug users as it did
non-users. But more importantly, this  sample of people
died very young and therefore do not represent the
general population. Even if you did find that opiates
cause brain damage  in this specific population, that
doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage,
a >>great deal  more research would have to be done. The
only >>thing this study provides  is a reason to pursue
further >>such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than
good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though
addiction results  from a number of factors. One of
these >>factors is changes in brain  chemistry resulting
from long >>term consumption of certain drugs, but
“changes in the >>brain” is not the same thing as “brain
damage”. >>
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve
damage. >>>Damage of nerve  cell receptor sites that are
scarred by >>>physical form of opioid type  molecules .
Modern >>>Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that
so  they >>
can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is
easy >>
to start  believing that opiates won’t hurt your
nerve
system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on
opiates. Saliva glend  >>> is just one of organs that do
not function properly when on opiates  >>> for most
people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that
makes  >>
teeth root from within. >>
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new
MSN
Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:23:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Should i stop communicating as Capt KIrk? ;o)
does it really matter?
xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
Maybe stop this whole “Koko” thing, Ron. Just start
communicating from the heart, as YOU.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: koko [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 30 December 2005 19:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse
klown >
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a
benign email to the forum but instead was interpreted as
more pity party.  man, i’m way off. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse
klown >
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb
arse klown >>
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED
PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM, >> BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO
TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN >> MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE
LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND >> PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.
WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF >> BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING
FOR A >> SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A
TRICK. >> PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT
THE PIECES BACK.  i >> COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK
TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY >> CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE
COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY
AGE, NOT ALLOWING >> ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL
THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO >> WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT
SO DEPLETED >> AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF
TOGETHER AGAIN >> PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT
INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN >> AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A
PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER
SOME OF MY >> COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron
GOTTA START >> SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON
ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING >> DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.
AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT >> WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT
W/ AN ADDICT >> TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND
THE ONLY >> ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS
COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.
ALL THOSE WERE >> MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN
A SOUTHERN >> FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL.
koko >
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this
colossal “poor me” trip you’re on. It’s not just up to
the treatment, whether ibogaine or whatever, to help
you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to
do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that
starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that
takes personal responsibility for himself, not as some
tragic victim of life. >
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through
your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me”
subtext. Actually it’s just a colossal ego trip and
underneath you are as angry as hell. >
Nick
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:21:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for this Ron.  Don’t know about others, but it always
helps to know a bit of background about people.  Yours has
been a hard road by the sounds, what do you mean when you
say the ibo kicked your ass? I don’t think i’ve heard you
talk about the session much… I would be interested to know
what happened, thats if you want to talk about it.
anyway big hugs from the Captain.  Stick with the list for
sure. Don’t let anyone chase you off.  It’s helped me so
much and it can help you too. You’ll get there, i know you
will. Depression sux big time.  I’m actually glad i went
thru it, it’s helped me understand so much.
Take care of u
Luff heaps
Kirk xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
Thanks for the interest in my sitch. I’m on bup.  Been
unhappy for 4 yrs. since I started using again after 15+
yrs. toal sobriety( no mood or mind altering drugs ‘cept
coffee)  .  Bup was pitched to me as a way to get off
oxys.  I was off the chart. I was told stuff was not
addicting  or at least “not very”  whatever that means. It
was later approved as a means for maintenance and then the
facts started comming down…longer half life than meth,
bitch to kick,  you know the drill.   I picked up after
surgery and went to the races b/4 the bup.. My tolerances
went back to 70’s level and more and I was doing 12 80 mg.
oxys a day.  That’s the equiv. of  about 192
percocets/tylox a day. Once I switched to bup, which is an
art in itself after doing so many oxys, my tolerance for
that stuff went to the moon when the med. est. said one
doesn’t acquire a tolerance for bup.    When I did my
session that I was really looking forward too, I was
treated by lay people from the list that had ben maligned
by the pros and  treated great.  Everyone that’s been
around knows him.  He helped me finally get off benzos
which was another story, but the IBO d/n take or I did not
take the IBO. It beat me up or something did.  No opiate
w/ds( i had switched back to oxys for 2 weeks b/4 the
journey), but the experience kicked my arse. As stated
sometime ago, I allowed myself 10 days for this which was
not nearly enough time.  I d/n know if it was the long
lasting drugs I was taking b/4 the session or my age (56)
but I could barrely walk.  when I went to work everyone
looked at my like I was death eating a biscuit, c/n think,
c/n function in my profession and bingo, I was popping bup
again.  instant relief and the depression started
immediately.  I went from hope to whad da fuck happened.?
My pessimissim, cynicism , fears, self pity all went
hywire as you guys have seen  this last yr.  If you asked
me, ron, would you like to offend about 100 or so people
that want you well and tick people off, I’d say no way. I
d/n want to be offensive to anyone. I have spent the last
20 yrs. helping indigent people that cops screw over and
who screw themselves over.  Kept a few off death row. Now
my career stagnat es as I limit what I do when in this
state when those I work with have so much at stake.  So,
there it is…not everyone likes everyone else to state it
simply.  That’s why they make Fords and Chevys I guess.  I
will stay with list as long as folks can stomach me and
hopefully contribute something meaningful.  Older I get
the less I realize I know.  An addict’s basement today can
be tomorrow’s penthouse.  Sure hope I and everyone else
seeking to stay straight make it.  It is a life
threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped
away for a week session  and then began sleeping like
babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them.  ron
 —– Original Message —–
 From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse
klown
 In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central
Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
   how can koko be responsible for
   feeling like hell after a session?
 I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so
honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit
after trying something that everyone else has had positive
result from.
 Nothing is 100 %.
 Are you unhappy on Methadone?
 When is the last time you felt happy? What was your
situation at that time?
 Callie
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] alternative theory of intelligent design
Date: December 31, 2005 at 9:39:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.venganza.org/
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subject: an alternative Intelligent Design theory
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:02:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HA ha ha!  The second time today I read something hilarious about IDT –
weird!
brenda
On 12/31/05 6:51 PM, “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
It’s at
http://www.venganza.org/
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Subject: an alternative Intelligent Design theory
Date: December 31, 2005 at 9:51:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s at
http://www.venganza.org/
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] All wired up, ain’t gonna take no more!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:52:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hackers Rebel Against Spy Cams
author: Ann Harrison / Wired News
Dec 29, 2005 19:08
When the Austrian government passed a law this year allowing police to
install closed-circuit surveillance cameras in public spaces without a court
order, the Austrian civil liberties group Quintessenz vowed to watch the
watchers.
Members of the organization worked out a way to intercept the camera images
with an inexpensive, 1-GHz satellite receiver. The signal could then be
descrambled using hardware designed to enhance copy-protected video as it’s
transferred from DVD to VHS tape.
The Quintessenz activists then began figuring out how to blind the cameras
with balloons, lasers and infrared devices.
And, just for fun, the group created an anonymous surveillance system that
uses face-recognition software to place a black stripe over the eyes of
people whose images are recorded.
Quintessenz members Adrian Dabrowski and Martin Slunksy presented their
video-surveillance research at the 22nd annual Chaos Communication Congress
here this week. Five hundred hackers jammed into a meeting room for a
presentation that fit nicely into CCC’s 2005 theme of “private
investigations.”
Slunksy pointed out that searching for special strings in Google, such as
axis-cgi/, will return links that access internet-connected cameras around
the world. Quintessenz developers entered these Google results into a
database, analyzed the IP addresses and set up a website that gives users
the ability to search by country or topic — and then rate the cameras.
“You can use this to see if you are being watched in your daily life,” said
Dabrowski.
The conference, hosted by Germany’s Chaos Computer Club, featured many
discussions on data interception and pushing back the unprecedented
onslaught of surveillance technologies.
Even the Dutch, once known as hacker-friendly, politically progressive
Europeans, are now fearful and demanding more cameras on their streets, said
Rop Gonggrijp, founder of Dutch ISP Xs4All.
Gonggrijp says the Dutch chief of police has announced the intention to
store large amounts of surveillance data and mine it to determine who to
pressure and question. “People are screaming for more control,” said
Gonggrijp.
Dutch journalist Brenno de Winter warned that the European Parliament’s
support for data retention doesn’t ensure security, and makes citizens
vulnerable to automated traffic analysis of who communicates with whom
through phone calls and internet connections. “What we have seen is a system
that fails because we miss out on too much information, and even if we have
all that information, it doesn’t give us the right information and it is
easy to circumvent,” said de Winter.
CCC member and security researcher Frank Rieger said hackers should provide
secure communications for political and social movements and encourage the
widespread use of anonymity technologies. He said people on the other side
of the camera need to be laughed at and shamed.
“It must not be cool anymore to have access to this data,” said Rieger, who
argued that Western societies are becoming democratically legitimized police
states ruled by an unaccountable elite. “We have enough technical knowledge
to turn this around; let’s expose them in public, publish everything we know
about them and let them know how it feels to be under surveillance.”
The four-day Chaos Computer Congress is meeting near Alexanderplatz in the
former East Berlin, where more than a half-million people rallied for
political reform five days before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
In his keynote address, Joichi Ito, general manager of international
operations for Technorati, warned that the internet could itself become a
walled-in network controlled by the International Telecommunication Union,
Microsoft and telecommunications companies.
Ito said these restrictions would stifle free speech and the ability to
question authority without retribution. “An open network is more important
for democracy than the right to bear arms and the right to vote,” said Ito.
“Voice is more important than votes.”
  http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,69942-0.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:04:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ahahah… good point, maybe that wasn’t the best example to use =)
captkirk wrote:
Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy
Pants.
From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am talking
Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they do in some
way cause nerve and/or brain damage.
Luff lite n Lafta
to all
Happy noo yeahsss
I have showered for the last time this year.
yahoo.
Kirk xxx
—– Original Message Follows —–
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot
conclude from such a  study that opiates CAUSE brain
damage, rather it is evidence that such  drug use is
ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain
damage. Let’s say  for some reason, cocaine users like to
wear baggie pants. If you did a  study like this one, then
you would find that wearing baggy pants is  associated
with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants
themselves  do not cause the brain damage, they are just
correlated with something  that does, i.e. the cocaine
use. In this study you posted, there is no  way to tell if
the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor
nutrition or  lack of sleep or something.
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first
because it studied  twice as many drug users as it did
non-users. But more importantly, this  sample of people
died very young and therefore do not represent the general population. Even if you did find that opiates
cause brain damage  in this specific population, that
doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a
great deal  more research would have to be done. The only
thing this study provides  is a reason to pursue further
such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than
good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though
addiction results  from a number of factors. One of these
factors is changes in brain  chemistry resulting from long
term consumption of certain drugs, but  “changes in the
brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage.
Damage of nerve  cell receptor sites that are scarred by
physical form of opioid type  molecules . Modern
Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so  they
can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy
to start  believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve
system: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on
opiates. Saliva glend  >>> is just one of organs that do
not function properly when on opiates  >>> for most
people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes
teeth root from within. >>
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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__________________________________________________________
_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:20:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
i love burroughs… he’s
definately a big
inspiration for me, and i think he definately offers
a lot to learn from.
i just mean that he didn’t exactly lead the happiest
or healthiest
life… so if you’re goal is to be happy and
healthy, you’d probably
wanna pass on some of the things he did..
you know, supressing your homosexuality for 30 or 40
years, murdering
you wife, having to watch your only son die of
alcoholism at half your
age… not exactly keys to a blissful existence
there =)
but then, few geniuses are happy people…
Burroughs Rehab:
well,
Compaired to 12 steps, anything sounds good,
but it could work
in practice as a tool
eXspecially works if
your not gay, never been married, and don’t have a
son, so I didn’t focus much on that part of it I
guess.
But he was healthy, physically lived to old age.
Smart Feller who Got to Nod plenty.  Good for him I
guess.
I’m sure met some unknowing ibogaine subjects in
Lexington during his stay there but
who’s to say…
I still haven’t tracked down the address for the old
ft.worth narcotic farm.
but  to be honest I’ve never read one burroughs  book
ever from cover to cover without falling asleep fast.
most “beat writers” are too homo erotic for my taste.
Sounds more like MichaL (come sit my lap) Jackson’s
cup of tea then anything that can keep my interest
longer then 7 seconds.
The interviews are a little interesting though I guess
oh and the yage letters:
“maybe yage will be the final kick”
I’d like to find “the third mind” if I run across it.
Cheers and New Yearz
-Jason
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:52:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Koko – not to judge you at all, but just imagine if someone else stood over you constantly and said the sorts of things to you that you seem to say to yourself all day.  I agree with Nick  that you’d want to KILL the person.  Self talk is huge (in my humble opinion.)  I know it sounds trite as hell, but my life really did change when I took Oprah Winfrey’s suggestion to write (or even speak aloud at night before bed) 5 things I was grateful for that day.  It might be a kiss from my dog, or a good meal, a beautiful view of a cloud passing by – just that simple.
I have a bad habit of always giving advice, but can’t help it here.  It doesn’t cost much to give it a try, and I only support it because this bit helped me more than I could’ve imagined.  Best to you Ron.  I know you feel lousy and I wish you could feel better…
Sandy
From:  brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Date:  Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:42:09 -0800
>On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
>
> >> man, i’m way off.
> >
> > If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
> > again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
> >
>
>Sure.  Perhaps,
>
>It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
>give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
>
>Keep hangin’ in Koko.
>
>brenda
>
>
>
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:07:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on methadone, from all the way up to a 100 millgrams where I stayed a very short time (a month or two) down to the 40 I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day, I was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining that 40 miolgrams was “too much,” except that considering I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin, I suppose any methadone is “too much” in that particular context and viewpoint.
sweating is a pretty common side effect of opiates in general…
i sweat like a pig when i’m on (recreational doses of) any opiate, even codeine…
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:55:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This begs the question of how Ron can learn to get what he needs on
the Internet. He keeps repeating the same behavior and drawing the
same responses from people since some time before you showed up.
Your response is that the world needs to change to accommodate Ron.
My response is that Ron needs to be more aware of what he is doing
if he wants to avoid such reactions.
It’s ironic that your skepticism is in response to the only person
who looked beyond his masochistic display and answered his
question.
I can see that.  This was a much more thoughtful treatment and I get what
you are saying.  I wasn’t really getting it from your original post.  It
felt like flat out criticism to me.   I also don’t judge people from their
posts and honestly, I was responding to your post, not to you, if that makes
sense.
As far as the comment that I think the world needs to change for Ron, I
think that’s a pretty broad interpretation of what I wrote. It’s not what I
meant.
Anyhoo, I hope everyone has a great day!  I love my life!  Lorena rocks, too
🙂  She’s putting some quarters in the meter and I’m wrapping up this reply
I started a while ago.
Take it easy,
brenda
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From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown (to Callie)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:47:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron
I have been reading this list for a couple of years now and i dont remember one person who “slipped away for a week, did a session and slept like babies afterward. I seem to recall many a post-treatment reports from many folks who were dealing with sleplessness, fatigue, and more …As much as fucking miracle this root is it aint a week and your ‘fixed’ and i dont recall reading or even hearing anyone say it was. And i would appreciate you refreshing mine/our memories if I am wrong
Happy New Year
Jeff
On 12/31/05, koko <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
 It is a life threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped away for a week session  and then began sleeping like babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them.  ron
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
how can koko be responsible for
feeling like hell after a session?
I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.
Nothing is 100 %.
Are you unhappy on Methadone?
When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?
Callie
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:44:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
And Jon, you usually are one of the most on the mark
people on this list but your remark on burroughs is
way off.  the answer is buried in there, Gysin
Whatever.  Whanna collaborate on a cut up ibogaine
paper.
oh don’t get me wrong… i love burroughs… he’s definately a big inspiration for me, and i think he definately offers a lot to learn from.
i just mean that he didn’t exactly lead the happiest or healthiest life… so if you’re goal is to be happy and healthy, you’d probably wanna pass on some of the things he did..
you know, supressing your homosexuality for 30 or 40 years, murdering you wife, having to watch your only son die of alcoholism at half your age… not exactly keys to a blissful existence there =)
but then, few geniuses are happy people…
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 2:19:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:42:09 -0800 brenda brewer
<shakti@photon.net> wrote:
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed
enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
This begs the question of how Ron can learn to get what he needs on
the Internet. He keeps repeating the same behavior and drawing the
same responses from people since some time before you showed up.
Your response is that the world needs to change to accommodate Ron.
My response is that Ron needs to be more aware of what he is doing
if he wants to avoid such reactions.
It’s ironic that your skepticism is in response to the only person
who looked beyond his masochistic display and answered his
question.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown(to Randy)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:28:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for the well reasoned thoughtful insight. Man< I wish I had the time but work is leaning heavy on me and I don’t have a war chest. Best wishes for the new year, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2 months. I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about 2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says, “at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.”  So your on bupe again, ‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own shots in the end.      Randy
From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown (for Brenda)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:30:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “brenda brewer” <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Dr Ed
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:37:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx for your support of my “theory.”  I wish I knew of someone who was experi-menting on this hypothesis, but I don’t.  I offered it ten years ago at the NIH in D.C. and to Dr. Mash, but no responses.  They are all wrapped up in the “modern” micro-analysis of brain centers and chemicals.  I prefer a macro-analysis of “normal healing mechanisms” of the brain, such as Sleep.  Many primitive societies have been fascinated with Dreams, Native Americans prize them.  Perhaps I’ve got to get to some of the national meetings on the subject and ask questions.  Please take care.  Dr. Ed
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:30:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/31/2005 12:27:20 AM Central Standard Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:
 cocaine users like to wear baggie pants.
LMFAO!!!!
JFreed, I love you!
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:05:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Maybe stop this whole “Koko” thing, Ron. Just start communicating from the
heart, as YOU.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: koko [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 30 December 2005 19:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email to the
forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party.  man, i’m
way off. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE
WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN
AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST
PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes,
YOU) have to
do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with
beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your
mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:03:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/31/05 8:38:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, morning_wood263@yahoo.com writes:
Is anyone goine to record the new talk in New York??
J, I’ll be there and I bet it will be recorded in a couple of different formats. I’ll ask around and see for sure.             Randy
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Case Study Research
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:45:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’ll be two years for me in March..  I was on heroin/oxycontin for about 3 years, then got on methadone at 100mgs a day, for over 3 years..  I did Iboga in march of 04, so this year will be 2 years clean from opiates.  I haven’t had any problems, although, for the first couple weeks after, I needed to take it easy and regain my vigor..  After 2 months, I felt pretty much normal, and now I feel like I never had a problem…
lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lorena
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please help SOS help::: Calling all Agents, Doctors, Scientists and publishers of medical journals SOS
Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:56:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am currently
trying to find studies of opiates/opioids
used as anti-psychotic
or especially during
in TBI (Tramatic Brain Injury).
 Any help would really be swell.
Oh and I’m pretty sure Dana Beal is the anti-Christ or
maybe it was George Bush, or both who knows, (who says
it’s limited to one person) I honestly don’t recall.
But I’d love access to the NSA audio to have” fun fun
fun”
Regarding guarding about things, the delema seems to
be morphing into the very thing that trying to protect
against.
For me it ‘s fucking George White.
The pure personification of Evil.
Satan is George White.
But in trying to protect oneself from George White
one becomes him or at least partially so.
“you aremn
t making any sense and your spellikng sucks.”
Well go fuck yoursl;ef then or spend more time alone
on the internet since it seems to work so well for
yiouo alreadty you ignorant fujcking monkey to open
every door.
type individuals that exist  one has to welcome and
or  4 or 5 moves ahead.  So goddamn predictable it’s
pathetic.  Just make the whole thing a worldwide
reality show and watch us blow ourselves up for our
own  amusement.
But seriouslly,
any
double blind
studies
regarding opioids
used as treatment of
Tramatic Brain Injury
would be supa cool.
I need your help.
Thank you
You Rock
Your beautiful
Kiss hug cuddle cuddle cuddle
.
__________________________________
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:22:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don:
you are a shining example of what I don’t want to be if I ever get straight.  thanks for the reminders.  However, each has there own way and you are free to take shots at me everytime I step out on this list.  Have at bro’, it’s good target practice for other’s who aren’t as self actualized as you. I can tell by your insightful comments you’ve been straight for a long time and actually appreciate the constructive criticism you always offer.  Many thanks.  I’m working on my new Mavis Bacon typing program to get in step, lest my font rub you the wrong way.  peace, you win and well wishes for the new year, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Now, I’m not developed, ahh.Cuckoo for cocoa puffs, gimme a hug, Ron!
brenda brewer wrote:
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown (to Callie)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:04:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for the interest in my sitch. I’m on bup.  Been unhappy for 4 yrs. since I started using again after 15+ yrs. toal sobriety( no mood or mind altering drugs ‘cept coffee)  .  Bup was pitched to me as a way to get off oxys.  I was off the chart. I was told stuff was not addicting  or at least “not very”  whatever that means. It was later approved as a means for maintenance and then the facts started comming down…longer half life than meth, bitch to kick,  you know the drill.   I picked up after surgery and went to the races b/4 the bup.. My tolerances went back to 70’s level and more and I was doing 12 80 mg. oxys a day.  That’s the equiv. of  about 192 percocets/tylox a day. Once I switched to bup, which is an art in itself after doing so many oxys, my tolerance for that stuff went to the moon when the med. est. said one doesn’t acquire a tolerance for bup.    When I did my session that I was really looking forward too, I was treated by lay people from the list that had ben maligned by the pros and treated great.  Everyone that’s been around knows him.  He helped me finally get off benzos which was another story, but the IBO d/n take or I did not take the IBO.
It beat me up or something did.  No opiate w/ds( i had switched back to oxys for 2 weeks b/4 the journey), but the experience kicked my arse. As stated sometime ago, I allowed myself 10 days for this which was not nearly enough time.  I d/n know if it was the long lasting drugs I was taking b/4 the session or my age (56) but I could barrely walk.  when I went to work everyone looked at my like I was death eating a biscuit, c/n think, c/n function in my profession and bingo, I was popping bup again.  instant relief and the depression started immediately.  I went from hope to whad da fuck happened.?  My pessimissim, cynicism , fears, self pity all went hywire as you guys have seen  this last yr.  If you asked me, ron, would you like to offend about 100 or so people that want you well and tick people off, I’d say no way. I d/n want to be offensive to anyone. I have spent the last 20 yrs. helping indigent people that cops screw over and who screw themselves over.  Kept a few off death row. Now my career stagnates as I limit what I do when in this state when those I work with have so much at stake.  So, there it is…not everyone likes everyone else to state it simply.  That’s why they make Fords and Chevys I guess.  I will stay with list as long as folks can stomach me and hopefully contribute something meaningful.  Older I get the less I realize I know.  An addict’s basement today can be tomorrow’s penthouse.  Sure hope I and everyone else seeking to stay straight make it.  It is a life threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped away for a week session  and then began sleeping like babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them.  ron
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
how can koko be responsible for
feeling like hell after a session?
I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.
Nothing is 100 %.
Are you unhappy on Methadone?
When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?
Callie
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 8:19:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the exact problem is the requirement by any
establishment that is willing to prescribe any
realistic doses of opioids to have a policy of already
having being addicted, addicted in the sense of
already haveing a tolerence.
If I have 260mg of methadone a day that I wasn’t
REQUIRED to take everyday then things would work.  but
Pain managmemnt cliknics aren’t going to likke hearing
ao but my past with methadone or perhaps why bring it
up.   It is all solme fucked up game .  I’m feelikng
like Ron right now.  Hope your doling well by the Way.
Send me some heroin soon.  I know yiour good for it.
So help me find a scientific excuse for using
prescribption opiates agiaine already !!!!!!!!!!
and not fucking methadone….I do not feel; like that
bore againe and the power trip by staff is beyond
sadistic.
And Jon, you usually are one of the most on the mark
people on this list but your remark on burroughs is
way off.  the answer is buried in there, Gysin
Whatever.  Whanna collaborate on a cut up ibogaine
paper.
Is anyone goine to record the new talk in New York??
Why not???????
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 5:13:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lori
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:13:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeh so somene else said…obviously it doesnt agree with
everyone and YES i agree we should get drug of choice what
the helll is the big drama with that, Liverpool in England,
if i remember rightly had heroin programs.. maybe you shuld
move cuntries? lol
cunt-try of a thing really isn’t it ;o)
i considre myself lucky to feel as normal as i do on this
shit. I’ve had hormone imbalances of progesterone that cause
nasty excessive sweating so i can relate to that it fucking
sux.
did u try lower than 40 mgs and did u feel comfortable on
that amount? i dont know… just asking 🙂  xx
happy noooooooooooo yeahsssssssss
Kia Kaha (stay strong)
and loads of
AROHA (love)
to everyone here xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..<
I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on
methadone, from all the  way up to a 100 millgrams where I
stayed a very short time (a month or two)  down to the 40
I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day,
I  was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining
that 40 miolgrams was  “too much,” except that considering
I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin,  I suppose any
methadone is “too much” in that particular context and
viewpoint.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often  mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,  Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to
Drugs” Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that
it dries up the saliva in the mouth,  which has anti
toof rotting stuff in it (god im so medical, I stun
myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.
Chewing gum is good for people on the done to help
protect the teeth….although  im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything
these days.. >
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend
takeaways.  Once a week!! Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was
determined this time to not be on it for long.. and as
it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.
My counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents
and sleeping bags to people in more remote areas who
were without aid to date. Just to give an idea the type
of human being she is. She also wants to come see me
during the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into
eastern style stuff, meditation , Buddhism etc.  new
doctor at clinic is into alternative therapies.. (thnk
I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a
bitch!!) Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the
methadone clinics around  the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..it shouldn’t be  a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know
what else they put  in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rocky
Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:05:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hye rocky good to see u still about
just send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
then sign up under your new one sweetas prot a noblem
happy noo yeahs
—– Original Message Follows —–
patrick thank you and will come back on alternative
account ,would like to  unsubscribe under this email
adress
———————————
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:03:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy
Pants.
From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am talking
Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they do in some
way cause nerve and/or brain damage.
Luff lite n Lafta
to all
Happy noo yeahsss
I have showered for the last time this year.
yahoo.
Kirk xxx
—– Original Message Follows —–
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot
conclude from such a  study that opiates CAUSE brain
damage, rather it is evidence that such  drug use is
ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference
between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain
damage. Let’s say  for some reason, cocaine users like to
wear baggie pants. If you did a  study like this one, then
you would find that wearing baggy pants is  associated
with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants
themselves  do not cause the brain damage, they are just
correlated with something  that does, i.e. the cocaine
use. In this study you posted, there is no  way to tell if
the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be
correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor
nutrition or  lack of sleep or something.
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first
because it studied  twice as many drug users as it did
non-users. But more importantly, this  sample of people
died very young and therefore do not represent the
general population. Even if you did find that opiates
cause brain damage  in this specific population, that
doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a
great deal  more research would have to be done. The only
thing this study provides  is a reason to pursue further
such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than
good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though
addiction results  from a number of factors. One of these
factors is changes in brain  chemistry resulting from long
term consumption of certain drugs, but  “changes in the
brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage.
Damage of nerve  cell receptor sites that are scarred by
physical form of opioid type  molecules . Modern
Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so  they
can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy
to start  believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve
system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on
opiates. Saliva glend  >>> is just one of organs that do
not function properly when on opiates  >>> for most
people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes
teeth root from within. >>
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:58:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..<
I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on methadone, from all the way up to a 100 millgrams where I stayed a very short time (a month or two) down to the 40 I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day, I was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining that 40 miolgrams was “too much,” except that considering I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin, I suppose any methadone is “too much” in that particular context and viewpoint.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Case Study Research
Date: December 30, 2005 at 8:43:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:54:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: shakti@photon.ne
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It goes through, that means you are still subscribed.
Mailing lists that try to conform to RFC’s mark the email as
“precendence: bulk” some spam systems will then take the email and put
it into the bulk or spam folder, yahoo does this a lot, hotmail,etc.
If nothing is replying to you, it is but you’re not seeing it. You need
to go to bulk or spam, click on one message and mark it as not spam, or
from: ibogaine@mindvox.com is not spam.
.:vector:.
— brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to
unsubscribe
but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.
Thanks,
brenda
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__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 30, 2005 at 2:18:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot conclude from such a study that opiates CAUSE brain damage, rather it is evidence that such drug use is ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain damage. Let’s say for some reason, cocaine users like to wear baggie pants. If you did a study like this one, then you would find that wearing baggy pants is associated with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants themselves do not cause the brain damage, they are just correlated with something that does, i.e. the cocaine use. In this study you posted, there is no way to tell if the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor nutrition or lack of sleep or something.
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first because it studied twice as many drug users as it did non-users. But more importantly, this sample of people died very young and therefore do not represent the general population. Even if you did find that opiates cause brain damage in this specific population, that doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a great deal more research would have to be done. The only thing this study provides is a reason to pursue further such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though addiction results from a number of factors. One of these factors is changes in brain chemistry resulting from long term consumption of certain drugs, but “changes in the brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage. Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy to start believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please unsubscribe
Date: December 31, 2005 at 1:11:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subscribe to the ibogaine list: send email (with any subject) to:
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com
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ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com> wrote:
patrick thank you and will come back on alternative account ,would like to  unsubscribe under this email adress
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:49:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 9:15:31 PM Central Standard Time, SuperBee@Tstar.net writes:
yES, ASKING rON TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT IS ONLY MY ALTER-EGO SPEAKING. sORRY
you are a bit of a smart ass, aren’t you? and totally inappropriate right now. you sometimes appear very intelligent although always ‘a little out in left field’ but these reactions to Ron are totally inappropriate. IMO of course. lol!
it takes all kinds of folk to make this life interesting…..i just really wonder why you can’t make room for ron!
no need to apologize.
callie
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please unsubscribe
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:12:07 PM EST
To: list <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
patrick thank you and will come back on alternative account ,would like to  unsubscribe under this email adress
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:40:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
how can koko be responsible for
feeling like hell after a session?
I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.
Nothing is 100 %.
Are you unhappy on Methadone?
When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?
Callie
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:36:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Follow the unsubscribe instructions from the acct you want to
cancel:
 http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:09:44 -0800 Mark Corcoran
<mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the
list on this email address?
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From: _BiscuitBoy714@aol.com_
Reply-To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
Subject: _Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study_
Date: _Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST_
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two
years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to
quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the
study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK
I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 11:50:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:28:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subscribe to the ibogaine list: send email (with any subject) to:
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com
To get OFF this list:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
If you want a general list of options and features, send mail to:
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To subscribe to the list in digest format, send mail to:
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Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 10:18:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Now, I’m not developed, ahh.Cuckoo for cocoa puffs, gimme a hug, Ron!
brenda brewer wrote:
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 10:14:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yES, ASKING rON TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT IS ONLY MY ALTER-EGO SPEAKING. sORRY..
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
> by being honest and mature with us.
Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!
Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.
I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 9:51:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Amen.
On 12/30/05 6:17 PM, “BiscuitBoy714@aol.com” <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I
did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2
months.
I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky
enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about
2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat
Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per
kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are
taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says,
“at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.”  So your on bupe again,
‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own
shots in the end.      Randy
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 9:17:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2 months. I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about 2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says, “at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.”  So your on bupe again, ‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own shots in the end.      Randy
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:00:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Puts hand up “
I didn’t write that! Lol
Kirk :oP
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
> by being honest and mature with us.
Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!
Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.
I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Test
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:02:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
test
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:42:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:28:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
To answer your question, age could be a factor, not to mention what
you were detoxing from. I suspect that careful attention to diet
and hydration could make a difference. In particular I would
suggest having ample food up to maybe 4 hours before and ample
fluids up to 1 hour before, plus beginning eating and drinking as
soon as convenient after, working up to a full meal as soon as
possible – don’t forget, keep nibbling fruit at least.
I’ll propose a rule of thumb for the ideal minimum recovery time
before going back to a normal routine (like work): at least one day
off for each mg/kg taken, starting from the first full meal eaten.
Even more ideal would be to double this and include therapy twice a
day.
The more times one has taken ibogaine, the faster the recovery
tends to be, so a first experience may not be predictive.
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:19:58 -0800 koko <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email
to the
forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party.  man, i’m
way off. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.
pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL
CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES
BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE
WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT
ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.
NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER
AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN
AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA
START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE
IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE
BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN
ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST
PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE
WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal
“poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether
ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU)
have to
do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts
with
beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes
personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind.
Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext.
Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as
hell.
Nick
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:09:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
Download today’s top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:55:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Send a blank email to:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:10 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST

In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol


Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now!
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:29:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I see your email…
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to unsubscribe
but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.
Thanks,
brenda
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Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:13:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to unsubscribe
but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.
Thanks,
brenda
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown – TO RON
Date: December 30, 2005 at 5:22:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron,
Everyone is different.  And everybody’s got an opinion and you know what
they say about opinions…
So if someone is criticizing you – you can choose not to listen.  Do they
know you?  And if they really wanted to help would it be through criticism –
or would it be upliftment?
I bet you’ve gone through enough self-criticism to now add someone else’s
into the mix.
As far as your failing,  you’re still alive so you know you can pick
yourself up gently and know you can still get there from here.
Take care,
brenda
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:09:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “illya braun” <illyabraun@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:00:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
anyone know of any treatment available in vancouver, canada? i’ve seen a site for ibohouse but am unaible to get into communication with them. how do i find ibo in vancouver? anyone???
illya
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:39:28 +0000
and in Iran as well.
US$1100.- 1 Day hospital + 6-8 hours anaesthesia + a lunch ox of pain killers & sedatives.
newspapers are full fo advertisements,
>From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:48:39 +0000
>
>
>Just add a few words on Moscow:
>Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins
>metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to
>get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was
>a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and
>they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were
>treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art
>University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.
>Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of
>rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several
>unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in
>Izrael.
>
>>From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700
>>
>>I was able to watch the video. It described that same procedure
>>that Logan
>>did to some degree. It mentioned that the process of injecting the
>>opiate
>>blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed
>>a
>>respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood
>>pressure.
>>It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>
>>Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
>>involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
>>addict who has done it voluntarily?
>>
>>Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
>>and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
>><loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Yes,
>> >Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
>> >nineties
>> >on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
>> >that patients
>> >needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
>> >was in two
>> >steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
>> >substance
>> >that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
>> >forever.
>> >It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
>> >2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose
>>of
>>
>> >street
>> >pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
>> >several
>> >seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
>> >effect.
>> >This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
>> >was wery
>> >high.
>> >Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
>> >stooped his
>> >operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
>> >again.
>> >Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
>> >Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
>> >and havent
>> >touched anything since.
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
>> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>> >>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
>> >>
>> >>has anyone ever heard of this?
>> >>
>> >>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
>> >>
>> >>-ekki
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>/]=—————————————————————
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>> >>
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>> >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>>Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no
>>account
>>required
>>http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
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>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 2:19:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email to the forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party.  man, i’m way off. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 1:19:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the koko thing is a sad joke that usually brings a smile from those that don’t see me and self pity run rampant.  i’m no klown, hate ’em.  need to get well.  as i stated in reply to Nick…how can koko be responsible for feeling like hell after a session?  admittedly lost and the list gets nothing but kudos.  rage, yeah, i’d like to be straight and can’t seem to get there. no kidding, sorry for comming across like arse hole to you guys who help many… i’ll nix the commentary for the new year.  ron
—– Original Message —– From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our
healing.  We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,
love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there
when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when
he does decide that he is actually a decent human being
deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to
the Klown.
Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????
—– Original Message Follows —–
Ron-
   Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the
clown crap. How  old are you, anyways? Why are you so
intent on carrying this behemoth  baggage past treatment?
Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to  justify just
being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you
are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have
moxy and are  sharp when not retreating into your state of
“Oh, God, I’m pathetic,  signed Koko”. For who can take a
clown seriously?
1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over
2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no
Unicorns here, or  Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins.
Nothing under the bed, see? 3, I don’t care if you vent,
or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just  be adult about
it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the
point of discussing something. 4, We care about you, with
all your faults, problems, trials and  tribulations.
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
by being honest and mature with us.
Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole.
It doesn’t fit.
Don
Ron Davis wrote:
>   HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER
> SOON.  pROBLEM,  BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M
> DOING BUP FOR PAIN  MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE
> CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE  LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
> PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY  SESSION I
> WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS
INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS
> TREATED  LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,
> WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD  10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO
> PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT  FUNCTION. GUYS AT
> WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.   IT
BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF
> THIS  LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM,
> MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING  ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF
> ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO  WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN
> INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO  DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT
> MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY
> INSIGHT INTO THIS  MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY
> THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE  NICE, NOT A PITIFUL
> KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW  YEAR.  AS
> I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/
THE  SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE
> SO I’LL THANK THE  LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.
>  ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN  THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND
> MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY  CONFUSING.  NO
> LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX(
I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE
> ONLY ONES  W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS.
> FROM ME WHICH IS COST  PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS
> WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL  THOSE WERE MET
> ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO
COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF
> HELL.  THANKS  AGAIN TO ALL. koko
> —– Original Message —– From: “Kirk”
> <captkirk@clear.net.nz> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
>
>
>> The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that
it dries up the >> saliva in the mouth,  which has anti
toof rotting stuff in it (god im so >> medical, I stun
myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  >>
Chewing >> gum is good for people on the done to help
protect the  >> teeth….although im
>> iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything
these days.. >>
>> I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend
takeaways.  Once a  >> week!!
>> Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not
be on it for  >> long..
>> and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went
back on.  My >> counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand
out Tents and sleeping  >> bags to
>> people in more remote areas who were without aid to
date. Just to  >> give an
>> idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to
come see me  >> during
>> the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern
style stuff, >> meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at
clinic is into alternative >> therapies.. (thnk I’ve said
all this shit before?? Lol old age is a  >> bitch!!)
>> Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the
methadone clinics  >> around the
>> world.
>> Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..it  >> shouldn’t be a
>> normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know
what else they  >> put in
>> yours. Ours is pingable.
>>
>> Ok late for work already
>> Eek
>> Kirk xxx
>> See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown( Nick . thanks)
Date: December 30, 2005 at 1:10:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
is it poor me or is that a carry over from when I’m consciously on self pity trip that turns everyone off?  can’t quite figure out how feeling like shite ties into that. open to suggestions. thanks , ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 12:03:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
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From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 30, 2005 at 3:44:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage. Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy to start believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 11:08:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
> by being honest and mature with us.
Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!
Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.
I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 8:09:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:57:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lorena, please forgive me if I am repeating any responces here (I haven’t read the whole list yet) but looking for people with two years or more might be kinda hard to do. I’ve been “clean” for 15 months. A lot of people quit posting after a while. I’n sure some of them are still reading but after a while it seems that some of us get wore out talking about Ibogaine every day for two years. Maybe some of the old timers will come outta the woodwork. Dave Hunter where are you? I still love ya man.        Randy
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:56:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/05 3:25:37 AM, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our
healing.  We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,
love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there
when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when
he does decide that he is actually a decent human being
deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to
the Klown.
Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
so I can hug him and squeeze him and hold him.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
so he can take away my frown, that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
that wonderful beautiful powerful lovable clown.
Howard
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 29, 2005 at 6:39:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
and in Iran as well.
US$1100.- 1 Day hospital + 6-8 hours anaesthesia + a lunch ox of pain killers & sedatives.
newspapers are full fo advertisements,
From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:48:39 +0000
Just add a few words on Moscow:
Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.
Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in Izrael.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700
I was able to watch the video.  It described that same procedure that Logan
did to some degree.  It mentioned that the process of injecting the opiate
blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed a
respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood pressure.
It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes,
>Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
>nineties
>on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
>that patients
>needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
>was in two
>steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
>substance
>that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
>forever.
>It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
>2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
>street
>pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
>several
>seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
>effect.
>This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
>was wery
>high.
>Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
>stooped his
>operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
>again.
>Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
>Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
>and havent
>touched anything since.
>
>
>>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
>>
>>has anyone ever heard of this?
>>
>>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
>>
>>-ekki
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 3:23:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our
healing.  We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,
love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there
when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when
he does decide that he is actually a decent human being
deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to
the Klown.
Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????
—– Original Message Follows —–
Ron-
   Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the
clown crap. How  old are you, anyways? Why are you so
intent on carrying this behemoth  baggage past treatment?
Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to  justify just
being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you
are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have
moxy and are  sharp when not retreating into your state of
“Oh, God, I’m pathetic,  signed Koko”. For who can take a
clown seriously?
1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over
2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no
Unicorns here, or  Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins.
Nothing under the bed, see? 3, I don’t care if you vent,
or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just  be adult about
it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the
point of discussing something. 4, We care about you, with
all your faults, problems, trials and  tribulations.
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
by being honest and mature with us.
Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole.
It doesn’t fit.
Don
Ron Davis wrote:
 HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER
SOON.  pROBLEM,  BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M
DOING BUP FOR PAIN  MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE
CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE  LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY  SESSION I
WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS
INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS
TREATED  LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,
WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD  10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO
PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT  FUNCTION. GUYS AT
WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.   IT
BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF
THIS  LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM,
MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING  ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF
ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO  WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN
INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO  DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT
MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY
INSIGHT INTO THIS  MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY
THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE  NICE, NOT A PITIFUL
KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW  YEAR.  AS
I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/
THE  SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE  LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.
‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN  THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND
MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY  CONFUSING.  NO
LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX(
I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE
ONLY ONES  W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS.
FROM ME WHICH IS COST  PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS
WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL  THOSE WERE MET
ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO
COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF
HELL.  THANKS  AGAIN TO ALL. koko
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk”
<captkirk@clear.net.nz> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that
it dries up the >> saliva in the mouth,  which has anti
toof rotting stuff in it (god im so >> medical, I stun
myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  >>
Chewing >> gum is good for people on the done to help
protect the  >> teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything
these days.. >>
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend
takeaways.  Once a  >> week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not
be on it for  >> long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went
back on.  My >> counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand
out Tents and sleeping  >> bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to
date. Just to  >> give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to
come see me  >> during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern
style stuff, >> meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at
clinic is into alternative >> therapies.. (thnk I’ve said
all this shit before?? Lol old age is a  >> bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the
methadone clinics  >> around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..it  >> shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know
what else they  >> put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 29, 2005 at 9:50:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 29, 2005 at 7:57:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Mark!  🙂  Say Hi to Marty and Joe and all the gang.  I appreciate the offer, and who knows may be in another 14 months I could interview you. The dress wearing hippie has helped immensely, as always with his stories and wise words.
Much love
~L~
Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol. Lori, maybe Matry and Joe would be close in this neck of the woods. I can think of a few people out by you but our friend who wears the dress should know almost all of those same people now. No, not you Preston. :o)
If your willing to wait 14 months I’d be happy to help you in anyway I can. -M.
From:  lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:21:48 -0500 (EST)
Dear List,
I posted a couple days ago, and I have gotten very few responses so here’s one more attempt.  I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.   The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the
case study.
Deeply Appreciative
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 28, 2005 at 6:33:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:46:08 +1300
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] to mark
Date: December 29, 2005 at 4:25:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I tryed to call on you but the # was not working i have the same # if you would like to call and it would be good to hear from you , things are good here.   rocky
Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
RANDY FROM S.D. OR ROCKY FROM S.F. I’D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
From:  Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:04:13 -0500
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor
http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From:
CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
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Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 29, 2005 at 7:49:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron-
  Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the clown crap. How old are you, anyways? Why are you so intent on carrying this behemoth baggage past treatment? Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to justify just being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have moxy and are sharp when not retreating into your state of “Oh, God, I’m pathetic, signed Koko”. For who can take a clown seriously?
1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over
2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no Unicorns here, or Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins. Nothing under the bed, see?
3, I don’t care if you vent, or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just be adult about it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the point of discussing something.
4, We care about you, with all your faults, problems, trials and tribulations. Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group by being honest and mature with us.
Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole. It doesn’t fit.
Don
Ron Davis wrote:
 HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM, BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,  WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX( I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY ONES W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE MET ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 29, 2005 at 6:08:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol. Lori, maybe Matry and Joe would be close in this neck of the woods. I can think of a few people out by you but our friend who wears the dress should know almost all of those same people now. No, not you Preston. :o)
If your willing to wait 14 months I’d be happy to help you in anyway I can. -M.
From:  lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:21:48 -0500 (EST)
Dear List,
I posted a couple days ago, and I have gotten very few responses so here’s one more attempt.  I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.   The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the
case study.
Deeply Appreciative
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 29, 2005 at 11:31:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM, BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,  WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX( I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY ONES W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE MET ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 29, 2005 at 2:21:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
I posted a couple days ago, and I have gotten very few responses so here’s one more attempt.  I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.   The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the case study.
Deeply Appreciative
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 28, 2005 at 6:42:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I sweat like a pig whether I was on 30 or 110 mgs. Winter or summer. That was my expereince.
Also, I’m 28 years old and although I still have pretty good teeth (straight anyway) I have been told that I have 12 cavities and have had two root canals since I got clean and I’m going for another one next week. Guess I should have chewed more gum.
From:  Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] methadone
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:46:08 +1300
>The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
>saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
>medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  Chewing
>gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
>iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
>
>I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
>Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
>and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
>counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
>people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
>idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
>the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
>meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
>therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
>Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
>world.
>Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
>normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
>yours. Ours is pingable.
>
>Ok late for work already
>Eek
>Kirk xxx
>See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
>
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 28, 2005 at 3:46:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL
Madness Is The Answer ;o)
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2005 3:07 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
My version: “Madness is not enlightenment, but neither is
enlightenment, for that matter. Wait a minute – what was the
question?”
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:10:41 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has
to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I
automatically label
it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.<
First of all Matthew, thanks for posting this note describing your
latest
experience- very poignent and clear, succinct and eloquent, and by
me much
appreciated.
  I can so relate to the above sentence. I just had to post a
pithy note
saying that- that I’ve so many times put myself right back where
I’ve
already been, that I need to ask, or figure out with someone else
listening
impartially, how I go about learning to feel my emotions and other
feelings
both mental and physical without automatically going back to tried
to true
methods that seem to lead down the same freaking cull-de-sack
every time,
even if the route looks different at various times it’s always the
same
dead-freakin’ end apparently.
  BTW, that’s in large part why I’ve not changed my sig-line
quote for so
long, about the search for enlightenment etc. Because I feel like
that
exactly, all the time.
  Grrrr.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 28, 2005 at 3:46:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 28, 2005 at 2:48:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Just add a few words on Moscow:
Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.
Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in Izrael.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700
I was able to watch the video.  It described that same procedure that Logan
did to some degree.  It mentioned that the process of injecting the opiate
blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed a
respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood pressure.
It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes,
>Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
>nineties
>on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
>that patients
>needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
>was in two
>steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
>substance
>that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
>forever.
>It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
>2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
>street
>pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
>several
>seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
>effect.
>This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
>was wery
>high.
>Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
>stooped his
>operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
>again.
>Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
>Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
>and havent
>touched anything since.
>
>
>>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
>>
>>has anyone ever heard of this?
>>
>>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
>>
>>-ekki
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 28, 2005 at 12:42:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
RANDY FROM S.D. OR ROCKY FROM S.F. I’D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
From:  Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:04:13 -0500
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor
http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From:
CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 10:01:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/27/2005 8:51:32 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest
I KNOW it was/is in my good interest. There is no doubt in my mind that I would be in prison for habitual drug offenses or dead if I had not broke down and got on Methadone.
Oh yes, at times I feel like I might have made a mistake but then I think about the last words my lawyer said to me as we left court one day. I had been busted forging prescriptions, AGAIN, and sentenced to 11 months 29 days with all suspended after 90 days. He told me, “You are a very lucky woman. God must have plans for you. You should be kneeling at the cross. If you get even as much as a pot possession you will be going to prison for a while and there will be nothing I or anyone else can do.”
Thankfully I have never seen him since!! I did my days in jail and got out and got fucked up again but then I went to Methadone Clinic. My life has steadily improved to the point that I appear normal! My relationship with my sons is great and I do not break the law anymore!!
METHADONE SAVED MY ASS AND PROBABLY MY LIFE plain and simple!
Callie
From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Studies
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:25:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the case study.
Warmest Regards
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:25:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
word. jeff me and you are coming from a very similar place. I left you a message call me back.-m.
From:  Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:04:13 -0500
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor
http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From:
CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:16:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you for this.  Very sound advice it seems to me right now.  But as you
can see I have not exactly stayed away from the net, at least not this
corner of it…
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:26 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Matt, I’m glad it turned out well for you.
You actually have some time while the path is still fresh to use
your own power to continue exploring and cleaning up. It is hard to
fathom after the hyperdrive of ibogaine that the main insight may
happen days later, in relative quiet. What you think you know from
the iboga can be part of your remaining defenses to keep you from
the work. Watch out for conclusions of any kind! Learn to recognise
your mind turning off when one has been reached.
If you want another suggestion, I would stay away from the net as
much as possible for the next two weeks and concentrate on yourself
and people who are close to you. Don’t worry too much about future
plans, there will be time for that – now you are in the garden, and
as you saw, it may take a lifetime to fully arrive again on your
own.
But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me,
ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like
I’m
on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of
it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that situation.
This is why I think that .01 to 8.0 mg/kg can do more than 15-25
when addiction isn’t part of the picture. It’s odd how things that
are blown up can come back, but things that you dismantle board by
board don’t reassemble very easily 🙂
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:14:12 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:13:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I was able to watch the video.  It described that same procedure that Logan
did to some degree.  It mentioned that the process of injecting the opiate
blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed a
respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood pressure.
It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes,
Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
nineties
on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
that patients
needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
was in two
steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
substance
that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
forever.
It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
street
pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
several
seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
effect.
This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
was wery
high.
Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
stooped his
operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
again.
Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
and havent
touched anything since.
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:20:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt,
  Reading your posts i was interested to see how your journey went.
I was supprised to see how strong you were in your decision to have
nothing to do with ibogaine again.
  There came a point in my journey that I said to myself that I
wouldn’t take ibogaine for a long time again.  For me I think I had
arrived so close to some very terrifying taumas at the source of my
problems.  I don’t know if it the same for you but for me I think I
wanted to run from facing these issues.  Life actually became much
harder since then even though on the outside I changed.  My alcohol
consumption droped to about 5 or 10% of what it was.  I stayed away
from ibogaine for a while but managed to make some healing progress
with lower doses.
     EVen if you don’t try ibogaine again try to find an emotional
release therapy to help continue gaining insights.  I backed off for a
good while after in what might have been a defensive reaction and I
think I could have made more progress had I a therapist at the time.
At firstI was more zealous about doing the sessions.  I think when I
approach the most difficult issues I want to avoid it because I am
somewhat aware of the horrendeous things inside causing my depressing.
I think only time will tell, I found issues that I just can’t enjoy
my life to the full if I’m living around them but maybe you have
reached a point were you will enjoy your life more fully without need
to go to that depth again.  I hope you find your way.
Luke
On 12/27/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Randy
I had heard about those titles but I had never heard what they were about
before.  I’m down with the cognitive dissonance thing.  In fact it has
already begun with the whole crying/sadness thing.  Every time I get a sad
feeling, I start reminding myself that it’s ok, and I try to let it go, and
it’s uncomfortable and weird but I’m working on it.  I’ll get it on that
issue.  I’m determined.  My goal is cry like a sissy in front of everyone I
know as soon as possible.  As far as all of the other millions of automatic
responses I noticed, well I can only imagine that my whole life from here on
will be necessary to get all that work done, but I’m determined to try.  I
have this overwhelming determination and purpose; I remember having this the
last time I did ibogaine too.  It is very empowering.  I actually remember
that last time I had so much empowerment and determination that I could for
the first time in my life, simply choose NOT to take a drug.  That is
probably where some of the talk of reset comes from.  One of the defining
characteristics of the addict is that they don’t have the ability to simply
choose not to use, somewhere along the line they pass the point where they
get to choose anymore and then they must.  But ibogaine actually returned
the power to make that choice for me last time.
Matt
________________________________
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
matt@itsupport.net writes:
saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1
Matt, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are a couple of
books written about this very subject you have described here. One of them
is RBT therapy (Rational Behavior Therapy) written by Maxie Maultsby and the
other one is RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) written by Albert Ellis. The
premise of both books being that for the mind to come up with an emotion it
must first have thoughts about what you are experiencing. It only works for
those of us able to tell the difference between objective reality and
subjective reality. It goes like this. Objective reality is those things we
can see, i.e., take a picture of, smell, hear, feel as pain or pleasure, and
so forth. You cannot change objective reality because it just is. Subjective
reality being just our opinion of what we see excetra. First you experience
something objective like you see a guy running down the road with jeans on
and street shoes. You can take a picture or a movie of that. That’s
objective. Then you have thoughts about what you see. Then you have the
emotion. Lets say when you see the guy running you think that he must be
running from somebody and it scares you. What if your first thought was
“look at that guy, he has no running clothes but he still wants to work
out?” your feelings would be more mild, say, you might feel sorry for the
guy because he has no running suit, or it might make you think it was funny.
You can’t change objective reality, but you can change what you think about
it. It looks good on paper, but it is hard to implement. It is work, but you
can change your thoughts about things. Especially preconceived things that
bother you. For a while you have to force yourself to think differently
about them and this period is called cognitive dissonance. Then after a
while it becomes thought shorthand and you don’t have to force yourself to
think differently, it just happens. Of course this doesn’t work for crazy
mother fuckers like me. I can’t ascertain the difference between objective
and subjective reality. Do I have cob webs on my face?       Randy
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:06:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
My version: “Madness is not enlightenment, but neither is
enlightenment, for that matter. Wait a minute – what was the
question?”
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:10:41 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has
to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I
automatically label
it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.<
First of all Matthew, thanks for posting this note describing your
latest
experience- very poignent and clear, succinct and eloquent, and by
me much
appreciated.
  I can so relate to the above sentence. I just had to post a
pithy note
saying that- that I’ve so many times put myself right back where
I’ve
already been, that I need to ask, or figure out with someone else
listening
impartially, how I go about learning to feel my emotions and other
feelings
both mental and physical without automatically going back to tried
to true
methods that seem to lead down the same freaking cull-de-sack
every time,
even if the route looks different at various times it’s always the
same
dead-freakin’ end apparently.
  BTW, that’s in large part why I’ve not changed my sig-line
quote for so
long, about the search for enlightenment etc. Because I feel like
that
exactly, all the time.
  Grrrr.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:53:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes,
Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
nineties
on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
that patients
needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
was in two
steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
substance
that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
forever.
It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
street
pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
several
seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
effect.
This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
was wery
high.
Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
stooped his
operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
again.
Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
and havent
touched anything since.
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 7:45:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ehehe… while i strongly believe that methadone is a useful and even life-saving medication for many people, i don’t think emulating burroughs’s lifestyle would necessarily be in anyone’s best interest….eheh =)
ekki wrote:
btw Burroughs was on methadon the last 17years of his life, used to have vodka, cigars and weed with it and nevertheless wrote another half dozen books and made countless paintings (shooting art) and other projects and collaborations. he called it GOM – gods own medicine. he seemed not too unhappy before he died at age of 83 judging from his last journals, after being nearly 50yrs hooked. he said that through opiates he found his “vacation i mean vocation”.
curious , no?
-ekki
Am 27.12.2005 um 19:16 schrieb Preston Peet:
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
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From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:25:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes,
Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early nineties on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was that patients needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment was in two steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a substance that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not forever. It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of street pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a several seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin effect. This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate was wery high.
Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin stooped his operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him again. Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction and havent touched anything since.
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 7:10:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
btw Burroughs was on methadon the last 17years of his life, used to have vodka, cigars and weed with it and nevertheless wrote another half dozen books and made countless paintings (shooting art) and other projects and collaborations. he called it GOM – gods own medicine. he seemed not too unhappy before he died at age of 83 judging from his last journals, after being nearly 50yrs hooked. he said that through opiates he found his “vacation i mean vocation”.
curious , no?
-ekki
Am 27.12.2005 um 19:16 schrieb Preston Peet:
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] done/ fear of pain
Date: December 27, 2005 at 3:30:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
u crazy woman….u know exactly what to do!!!!!
whats left of my love :}
matt
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] done/ fear of pain
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 08:08:56 +1300
It’s worked really well for me this time….I have no idea what dose im even on now but apparently it’s low, who knows ,  we’ve been tapering it for the past couple of months, even though I know I didn’t need to……I feel great, and I don’t know why or how, but I do.  Weirdo huh lol.
Yeh I can understand that fear with all the effort required to stay clean I have no idea what I’d do either…..
Have to hurry up and master the power of the mind a Matt?
Lol
K
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2005 2:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Kirk
I just read your other post to Preston and you are right about one thing, it probably actually is a good solution for some people.  I seriously doubt that ibogaine is the right answer for everyone, so I have to suspect that methadone isn’t the wrong answer for everyone either.  But speaking for myself, I am NEVER going back to the life I was settling for in those days… Incidentally, chronic pain, or even prolonged, temporary, sever pain has been one of my worst fears since I got clean.  I don’t live in fear of that happening, but if I think about it, it seems terribly scary because I fear what my response would be if I were to actually have to take opiates into my body again.  Bad things man…
Matt
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 7:04:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 6:24:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m really glad you posted what you did. I was beginning to think what I was feeling was not normal or in some way disrespectful by feeling very similarly to the way you do right now. I totally hear where your coming from. My last Ibogaine session was about 10 months ago and when I came to until now I felt so differently about Ibogaine and about the “movement” than I did the first time. I told someone a few days ago that I am still trying to get over my last one and unless I went back to getting high (which contrary to what people might think, I doubt is very likely) I don’t think I could ever go through that again in this lifetime. It was like for almost 6 months I was having almost what I would consider to be a from of PTSD if that makes any sense. And its still hasnt gone away completely. Thats not at all to say that I don’t want anything more to do with Ibogaine, I truly believe I owe my life to it. Some of my best friends are now “Ibogaine People” and I’m so grateful to have each and everyone of them in my life but consuming myself with the movement, the experience, or even this list is counterproductive to what I took Ibogaine for in the first place. And that’s purely a personal thing and not to often anyone on this list. Anyway, from time to time I pull up the list to see how everyone is doing and what not. May I suggest you put the list in its own folder or even mark it junkmail and just check in now and then. It would be a shame to lose someone completely who really has contributed so much to the list.
Whatever you decide to do I wish you the very best. Thanks  -M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
CC:  <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:14:29 -0500
>As Callie wrote, I’m sorry to see you decide to unsubscribe, but do
>what you must I suppose.
>    But I hadn’t gotten that far before sending off the last note,
>so want to say later gator.
>    Best of luck with your decisions for change, and I hope you make
>it to whereever it is you want to be as smoothly, as best, with the
>least stress, as possible.
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
>
>
>So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have
>done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it,
>my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better,
>and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was
>substantially shortened. I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night,
>about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky
>and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of
>the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with
>me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just
>more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was
>on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I
>was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at
>this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
>felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
>terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in
>front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the
>point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the
>capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it. I agonized over it for a
>couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell
>asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams
>but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
>
>So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff
>(similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
>thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this
>morning, about 12 hours ago now.
>
>Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
>very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
>actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear
>keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I
>benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the
>source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was
>packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every
>aspect of my thoughts.
>
>Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is
>like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you
>know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan,
>that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well
>imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.
>But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of
>this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without
>hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling.
>That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
>the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.
>  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that
>literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
>
>So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
>about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions
>so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a
>feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I
>stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would
>start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a
>loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone. Just
>gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also
>noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I
>noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear
>early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was
>also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.
>My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad
>feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for
>ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.
>I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
>
>I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
>saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
>decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it
>is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something
>to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely
>graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to
>it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a
>child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these
>automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
>adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did
>when I was like 1.
>
>So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
>just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
>decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from
>this list as well. I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish
>that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug
>addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to
>do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably
>the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse
>and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was
>on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it
>like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff,
>but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper
>use of it. But when I was on methadone it was like there was a
>freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke
>was the right tool for that situation.
>
>Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I
>noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
>noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like
>the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as
>last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought
>that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
>
>Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
>week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but
>them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have
>ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I
>actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always
>know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have
>not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish
>lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life.
>Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
>
>I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
>did get. I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to
>solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and
>that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of
>stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.
>I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly
>enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be
>some changes made.
>Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
>Matt
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:16:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest. It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
about
my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
this.
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [offcenterevents] Norfolk 4 on Nightline tonight/Darryl Best free at last
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:24:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HI all,
  Below is excerpted from the rest of the email even further below- I would have just sent this part, but felt the whole email should be sent or I’d be editing unethically…or something like that.
  Light, stresslessness, happiness and joy this holiday season to all of you.
Peace and love,
Preston
DARRYL BEST FREE AT LAST
In 2004, Off Center produced a clemency video on behalf of Darryl Best,
a man who was serving 15 years to life under New York’s Rockefeller
Drug Laws. This past Thursday (12/23/05) Governor George Pataki granted
clemency to Mr. Best. Darryl Best’s clemency petition is the only one
that Pataki granted this year.  Mr. Best, 49, was convicted after
signing for a Federal Express package while at his uncle’s house in the
Bronx, repairing the roof. The package turned out to contain cocaine
and the uniformed Fedex delivery man was an undercover cop.  Darryl’s
wife Wanda, the William Moses Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice and the
Mothers of the Disappeared, along with Peter Greer and Jason Flom, have
struggled tirelessly to make this day a reality. Darryl Best will be
home in mid-January.
To view Off Center’s clemency video, visit the Kunstler Fund website:
http://www.kunstler.org/
—– Original Message —– From: “Sarah Kunstler” <sarah@off-center.com>
To: <offcenterevents@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:04 AM
Subject: [offcenterevents] Norfolk 4 on Nightline tonight/Darryl Best free at last
NIGHTLINE ON THE NORFOLK 4
Nightline (ABC) will be running a story on the Norfolk 4, tonight
(Tuesday, December 27th) at 11:30PM EST. The segment will include
parts of Off Center’s recently completed clemency video on behalf of
the Norfolk 4. See below for more details.
FREE THE NORFOLK 4
We sent you an email several weeks ago about a project that Off Center
recently completed about the Norfolk Four. THE NORFOLK FOUR: A
MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE is a 30-minute documentary that was submitted to
Governor Mark Warner of Virginia as part of a clemency petition.
In the 1990s, Danial Williams, Joseph Dick Jr., Derek Tice, and Eric
Wilson joined the Navy with aspirations of serving their country.
Today, three of the four are in prison, serving life sentences for
falsely confessing to a rape/murder that none of them committed,
despite the fact that DNA has identified the real killer.
Governor Warner will decide whether or not to grant clemency before he
leaves office on January 14, 2006. We invite you to learn more about
the Norfolk 4 and to write a letter to Governor Warner on their behalf.
To find out more about how you can get involved visit the Norfolk 4
website: http://www.norfolk4.com/. The site has sample letters, as well
as a link to the Governor’s email.
DARRYL BEST FREE AT LAST
In 2004, Off Center produced a clemency video on behalf of Darryl Best,
a man who was serving 15 years to life under New York’s Rockefeller
Drug Laws. This past Thursday (12/23/05) Governor George Pataki granted
clemency to Mr. Best. Darryl Best’s clemency petition is the only one
that Pataki granted this year.  Mr. Best, 49, was convicted after
signing for a Federal Express package while at his uncle’s house in the
Bronx, repairing the roof. The package turned out to contain cocaine
and the uniformed Fedex delivery man was an undercover cop.  Darryl’s
wife Wanda, the William Moses Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice and the
Mothers of the Disappeared, along with Peter Greer and Jason Flom, have
struggled tirelessly to make this day a reality. Darryl Best will be
home in mid-January.
To view Off Center’s clemency video, visit the Kunstler Fund website:
http://www.kunstler.org/
OFF CENTER MEDIA
Off Center has become a non-profit, and we have changed our name from
Off Center Productions to Off Center Media. Our newly designed website
will be up shortly, and we will send an email to announce the launch.
Happy New Year from Off Center Media and thank you for your continued
support of our work.
Emily Kunstler  Sarah Kunstler
Thank you for supporting Off Center Productions
and for your continuing interest in our efforts.
http://www.off-center.com
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to:
offcenterevents-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 3:29:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hey buddy!
welcome back !!
i would have to agree with the one that is slow :}
give it time to put the pieces together…dont rush into conclusions/decisions
p.s
i would think about the fear u have of ibo and try to focus on it
it seems like u have  major unresolved issues and taking ibo out of the equation might be a cop out
maybe
just an opinion— from what i observed on my own bloody skin :]
no matter what u decide to do it will be the right decision
love and strenght to u my friend
matt
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:26:18 -0800
Matt, I’m glad it turned out well for you.
You actually have some time while the path is still fresh to use
your own power to continue exploring and cleaning up. It is hard to
fathom after the hyperdrive of ibogaine that the main insight may
happen days later, in relative quiet. What you think you know from
the iboga can be part of your remaining defenses to keep you from
the work. Watch out for conclusions of any kind! Learn to recognise
your mind turning off when one has been reached.
If you want another suggestion, I would stay away from the net as
much as possible for the next two weeks and concentrate on yourself
and people who are close to you. Don’t worry too much about future
plans, there will be time for that – now you are in the garden, and
as you saw, it may take a lifetime to fully arrive again on your
own.
> But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me,
>ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug. I sort of imagine it like
I’m
>on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but
>ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of
>it.
>But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
>built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
>for that situation.
This is why I think that .01 to 8.0 mg/kg can do more than 15-25
when addiction isn’t part of the picture. It’s odd how things that
are blown up can come back, but things that you dismantle board by
board don’t reassemble very easily 🙂
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:14:12 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
>So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
>have done
>it. I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
>metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
>my diet
>is way better. So somehow the effect duration was substantially
>shortened.
>I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
>When that
>kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
>made
>arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
>her to
>come home and sit with me. So she did, and I felt WAY safer. But
>the
>intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
>if the
>opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
>that this
>time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before. So I
>was at this
>point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
>felt as if
>any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
>terrified, all of
>creation was literally coming undone right in front of me. But I
>realized
>at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
>experience. So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
>couldn’t do it.
>I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
>couldn’t take
>any more. I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
>don’t recall
>any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
>
>
>
>So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
>stuff (similar
>to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
>thoughts. So I
>decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
>about 12 hours
>ago now.
>
>
>
>Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
>very
>instructive. Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
>actually felt
>sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
>doing what
>I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it. I
>feel like
>I have some great insight into the source of my depression. I
>think
>ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
>emotions and it
>was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
>
>
>
>Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me. Imagine that your mind
>is like a
>train station, a big room with a very high ceiling. Now you know
>that crud
>that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
>dust and
>lint and whatever the hell crap? Well imagine that stuff all
>smeared on all
>of the walls and ceilings. But so much of it that it is really
>thick, like
>meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
>around in there
>without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
>crawling.
>That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
>the unfelt
>emotions. And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it. My head
>feels
>absolutely freaking spacious now! I mean that literally, my head
>feels so
>clean and clear.
>
>
>
>So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
>about, how
>does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
>never has to
>happen again? I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
>label it
>good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it. I saw the whole thing in
>action
>repeatedly. I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
>overflow, I
>would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
>gone.
>Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right. I
>also
>noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
>I noticed
>a very similar thing with the fear. I had a lot of fear early on
>and it was
>making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
>was not
>completely feeling it, I was avoiding it. My girlfriend suggested
>to me
>that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
>awestruck
>by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
>life thought
>of that idea. I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
>it.
>
>
>
>I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
>saw what
>happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
>decides what it
>means. Because before it means anything to me, it is just
>something that
>happens. But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
>wonderful or
>terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels. And
>when that
>happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
>mind that
>I setup as a child. And I saw that too, I saw how I had setup
>all these
>automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
>adult. I’m
>walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
>like 1.
>
>
>
>So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again. That’s
>just not
>what I want on my journey through this life anymore. And I
>decided to
>change my clean date. And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
>as well.
>I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
>believe in
>ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction. But I don’t’ want to
>involve
>myself in anything more to do with it. I have the utmost respect
>for that
>drug. It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
>didn’t
>completely misuse and abuse. But one thing I had lost
>appreciation for
>until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug. I sort
>of imagine
>it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
>stuff, but
>ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
>of it.
>But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
>skyscraper
>built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
>for that
>situation.
>
>
>
>Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
>I noticed
>something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
>noribogaine,
>potentiated the effect of the ibogaine. It seemed like the first
>2 hours of
>this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
>then it
>abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
>interesting
>going on between the two.
>
>
>
>Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone. I’ll hang out for a
>week or so
>and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
>off. I also
>want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
> I don’t
>mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
>other
>people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it. I am very
>struck by how
>much I seemed to have not learned as a child. I feel like these
>painfully
>childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
>whole life.
>Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
>
>
>
>I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
>did get.
>I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
>order to
>be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
>looking
>for. I decided actually quite a lot of stuff. I decided to get a
>ring and
>ask my girlfriend to marry me. I decided that I don’t show my
>friends often
>enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
>There’s
>going to be some changes made.
>
>Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
>
>Matt
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 3:40:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:41:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
How did the done work for you on a whole? Did you feel better more often? Or
not…<
The main things I remember about being on methadone that I did not like about it (I have trouble believing it’s already been about 5 years, or just shy of that now, since I stopped taking methadone.). These things included the incessent sweating I’d do, which during the Winter was especially irritating, as I’d be sweating buckets whenever I’d go inside from the cold, and all I could think of while I’d be talking to everyone and anyone at this point would be, “what are they thinking about all this sweating I’m doing,” as well as how uncomfortable I was, not only right then while doing the sweating but when I was going to go back outside and have to walk through the cold all wet under my jacket, wetness that was going to nearly freeze due to the severe cold we can sometimes have here.
  I watched as my teeth seemed to crumble- now, I don’t know if this really truely is a result of taking methadone, but I’ve heard the same thing from countless others now, that while they were junkies on the streets their teeth were fine but once getting on the methadone their teeth fell apart and became riddled with cavities. Again, I don’t know how much the methadone had to do with this, but it happened to me as well.
  I Hated even having to go just once a week to the clinic to pick up my week’s supply, because I had to “report in” to someone, an authority figure of some kind or other, occasionally donate a sample of my urine to the clinic, and basically had to accept that someone or someones (plural) had the power to refuse me my medication if they so chose for whatever reason, and were also empowered to force me into medical check ups, piss testing, counseling even when I didn’t feel I needed it.
  But suddenly I’m realizing that that part wasn’t actually a bad thing at all, that I was “forced” to speak with a counselor, as the woman who was my assigned counselor was actually quite nice and seemingly very caring about me and my issues, which I realize I kinda miss.
  But as noted, I hated having to go even that one day a week into the clinic. And another but, I really didn’t like being on the stuff. I talked too much when it would first take affect, making me very speedy and babbly, and I felt kinda off, never quite fully me- but this coulda just been the whole “I’m on methadone and don’t really want to tell everyone I meet that fact due to prejudice and the like on the part of so many people who’d immediately think to themselves, ‘this guy is a junky,’ even though I’m no longer on the streets using illegal drugs but rather living in a home with a key in my pocket taking a prescribed medication” thing rather than a real effect of the methadone itself.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Heh yeh sorry dumb question…….I did the same, got off it… nightmarish
swore I’d never do it again.. but here I am.. again lol. Never say never!
How did the done work for you on a whole? Did you feel better more often? Or
not…
K
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????<
Kirk, if I could tell you what I really wanted, I’d have it already I think.
But due to the fact that I did get off methadone as soon as I felt I was
“ready” I think my body and brain and spirit were telling me something, only
now I’m having trouble with other things that I wasn’t while using
methadone, so I get confused and muddled feeling.
  I’m working on things though, as it’s a never-ending process, this thing
called living I find.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it.
It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they
were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself
wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always
think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed.
Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people
around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:14:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As Callie wrote, I’m sorry to see you decide to unsubscribe, but do what you must I suppose.
  But I hadn’t gotten that far before sending off the last note, so want to say later gator.
  Best of luck with your decisions for change, and I hope you make it to whereever it is you want to be as smoothly, as best, with the least stress, as possible.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially shortened. I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it. I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff (similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning, about 12 hours ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end, very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling. That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone. Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list as well. I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use of it. But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool for that situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life. Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I did get. I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:10:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.<
First of all Matthew, thanks for posting this note describing your latest experience- very poignent and clear, succinct and eloquent, and by me much appreciated.
  I can so relate to the above sentence. I just had to post a pithy note saying that- that I’ve so many times put myself right back where I’ve already been, that I need to ask, or figure out with someone else listening impartially, how I go about learning to feel my emotions and other feelings both mental and physical without automatically going back to tried to true methods that seem to lead down the same freaking cull-de-sack every time, even if the route looks different at various times it’s always the same dead-freakin’ end apparently.
  BTW, that’s in large part why I’ve not changed my sig-line quote for so long, about the search for enlightenment etc. Because I feel like that exactly, all the time.
  Grrrr.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially shortened. I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it. I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff (similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning, about 12 hours ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end, very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling. That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone. Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list as well. I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use of it. But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool for that situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life. Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I did get. I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: power of laughter
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:04:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
December 27, 2005
Animals Enjoy A Good Laugh, Too, Say Scientists
by Peter Gorner, Chicago Tribune Science Reporter
,
Tickling rats to make them chirp with joy may seem frivolous as a scientific
pursuit, yet understanding laughter in animals may lead to revolutionary
treatments for emotional illness, researchers suggest.
Joy and laughter, they say, are proving not to be uniquely human traits.
Roughhousing chimpanzees emit characteristic pants of excitement, their
version of “ha-ha-ha” limited only by their anatomy and lack of breath
control, researchers contend.
Dogs have their own sound to spur other dogs to play, and recordings of the
sound can dramatically reduce stress levels in shelters and kennels,
according to the scientist who discovered it.
Panksepp, of Bowling Green State University in Ohio, sums up the latest
studies in this week’s edition of the journal Science in hopes of alerting
colleagues to results that he terms “spectacular.” The research suggests
that studying animal emotions, once a scientific taboo, seems to be moving
rapidly into the mainstream.
“It’s very, very difficult to find skeptics these days. The study of animal
emotions has really matured.”
“Neural circuits for laughter exist in very ancient regions of the brain,”
Panksepp said, “and ancestral forms of play and laughter existed in other
animals eons before we humans came along.”
Research in this area “is just the beginning wave of the future,” said
comparative ethologist Gordon Burghardt, of the University of Tennessee, who
studies the evolution of play. “It will allow us to bridge the gap with
other species.”
“Tickles are the key,” Panksepp said. “They open up a previously hidden
world.” Panksepp had studied play vocalizations in animals for years before
it occurred to him that they might be an ancestral form of laughter. “Then I
went to the lab and tickled some rats. Tickled them gently around the nape
of their necks. Wow!”
The tickling made the rats chirp happily–“as long as the animal’s friendly
toward you,” he said. “If not, you won’t get a single chirp, just like a
child that might be suspicious of an adult.” During human laughter, the
dopamine reward circuits in the brain light up. When researchers
neurochemically tickled those same areas in rat brains, the rats chirped.
Panksepp said that laughter, at least in response to a direct physical
stimulus such as tickling, may be a common trait shared by all mammals.
Laughter in chimps, our closest genetic relatives, is associated with
rough-and-tumble play and tickling, Provine found. That came as no surprise.
“It’s like the behavior of young children,” said Provine, of the University
of Maryland Baltimore County. “A tickle and laughter are the first means of
communication between a mother and her baby, so laughter appears by about
four months after birth.”
“We humans laugh on outward breaths. When we say `ha-ha-ha,’ we’re chopping
an outward breath,” Provine said. “Chimps can’t do that. They make one sound
per inward and outward breath. They don’t have the breath control to …
make the traditional human laugh.”
The breakthrough in dog laughter was accomplished by University of Nevada,
Reno, researcher Patricia Simonet while working with undergraduates at
Sierra Nevada College in Lake Tahoe.
With extensive chimp research behind her, Simonet was open to the idea of
animal emotions, but the laughing sound she discovered in dogs was
unexpected: a “breathy, pronounced, forced exhalation” that sounds to the
untrained ear like a normal dog pant.
But a spectrograph showed a burst of frequencies, some beyond human hearing.
A plain pant is simpler, limited to just a few frequencies.
Hearing a tape of the dog laugh made single animals take up toys and play by
themselves, Simonet said. It never initiated aggressive responses.
“If you want to invite your dog to play using the dog laugh, say `hee, hee,
hee’ without pronouncing the `ee,'” Simonet said. “Force out the air in a
burst, as if you’re receiving the Heimlich maneuver.”
When she played a recording of a laughing dog at an animal shelter, Simonet
found that even 8-week-old puppies reacted by starting to play, something
they hadn’t done when exposed to other dog sounds.
“Some sounds, like growls, confused the puppies. But the dog laugh caused
sheer joy and brought down the stress levels in the shelter immediately.”
Have a good laugh and we will see you next month,
Marc Deschamps
Editor
Kitten Cat Magazine
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:26:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, I’m glad it turned out well for you.
You actually have some time while the path is still fresh to use
your own power to continue exploring and cleaning up. It is hard to
fathom after the hyperdrive of ibogaine that the main insight may
happen days later, in relative quiet. What you think you know from
the iboga can be part of your remaining defenses to keep you from
the work. Watch out for conclusions of any kind! Learn to recognise
your mind turning off when one has been reached.
If you want another suggestion, I would stay away from the net as
much as possible for the next two weeks and concentrate on yourself
and people who are close to you. Don’t worry too much about future
plans, there will be time for that – now you are in the garden, and
as you saw, it may take a lifetime to fully arrive again on your
own.
But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me,
ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like
I’m
on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of
it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that situation.
This is why I think that .01 to 8.0 mg/kg can do more than 15-25
when addiction isn’t part of the picture. It’s odd how things that
are blown up can come back, but things that you dismantle board by
board don’t reassemble very easily 🙂
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:14:12 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] done/ fear of pain
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:08:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s worked really well for me this time….I have no idea what dose im even on now but apparently it’s low, who knows ,  we’ve been tapering it for the past couple of months, even though I know I didn’t need to……I feel great, and I don’t know why or how, but I do.  Weirdo huh lol.
Yeh I can understand that fear with all the effort required to stay clean I have no idea what I’d do either…..
Have to hurry up and master the power of the mind a Matt?
Lol
K
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2005 2:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Kirk
I just read your other post to Preston and you are right about one thing, it probably actually is a good solution for some people.  I seriously doubt that ibogaine is the right answer for everyone, so I have to suspect that methadone isn’t the wrong answer for everyone either.  But speaking for myself, I am NEVER going back to the life I was settling for in those days… Incidentally, chronic pain, or even prolonged, temporary, sever pain has been one of my worst fears since I got clean.  I don’t live in fear of that happening, but if I think about it, it seems terribly scary because I fear what my response would be if I were to actually have to take opiates into my body again.  Bad things man…
Matt
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:00:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Heh yeh sorry dumb question…….I did the same, got off it… nightmarish
swore I’d never do it again.. but here I am.. again lol. Never say never!
How did the done work for you on a whole? Did you feel better more often? Or
not…
K
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????<
Kirk, if I could tell you what I really wanted, I’d have it already I think.
But due to the fact that I did get off methadone as soon as I felt I was
“ready” I think my body and brain and spirit were telling me something, only
now I’m having trouble with other things that I wasn’t while using
methadone, so I get confused and muddled feeling.
   I’m working on things though, as it’s a never-ending process, this thing
called living I find.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it.
It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they
were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself
wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always
think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed.
Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people
around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:22:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????<
Kirk, if I could tell you what I really wanted, I’d have it already I think.
But due to the fact that I did get off methadone as soon as I felt I was “ready” I think my body and brain and spirit were telling me something, only now I’m having trouble with other things that I wasn’t while using methadone, so I get confused and muddled feeling.
  I’m working on things though, as it’s a never-ending process, this thing called living I find.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it. It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Dr Ed
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:59:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ed
I think I was too quick to reject your lack of REM underlying so many psychological problems theory.  I think there is probably a lot more truth in it than I was willing to admit before.  I slept for about 6 hours last night and woke several times from more of these long epic dreams.  I can’t remember the last time I have dreamed like this (other than a couple of weeks ago following the low dose ibogaine).
Matt
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:52:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy
I had heard about those titles but I had never heard what they were about before.  I’m down with the cognitive dissonance thing.  In fact it has already begun with the whole crying/sadness thing.  Every time I get a sad feeling, I start reminding myself that it’s ok, and I try to let it go, and it’s uncomfortable and weird but I’m working on it.  I’ll get it on that issue.  I’m determined.  My goal is cry like a sissy in front of everyone I know as soon as possible.  As far as all of the other millions of automatic responses I noticed, well I can only imagine that my whole life from here on will be necessary to get all that work done, but I’m determined to try.  I have this overwhelming determination and purpose; I remember having this the last time I did ibogaine too.  It is very empowering.  I actually remember that last time I had so much empowerment and determination that I could for the first time in my life, simply choose NOT to take a drug.  That is probably where some of the talk of reset comes from.  One of the defining characteristics of the addict is that they don’t have the ability to simply choose not to use, somewhere along the line they pass the point where they get to choose anymore and then they must.  But ibogaine actually returned the power to make that choice for me last time.
Matt
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, matt@itsupport.net writes:
saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1
Matt, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are a couple of books written about this very subject you have described here. One of them is RBT therapy (Rational Behavior Therapy) written by Maxie Maultsby and the other one is RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) written by Albert Ellis. The premise of both books being that for the mind to come up with an emotion it must first have thoughts about what you are experiencing. It only works for those of us able to tell the difference between objective reality and subjective reality. It goes like this. Objective reality is those things we can see, i.e., take a picture of, smell, hear, feel as pain or pleasure, and so forth. You cannot change objective reality because it just is. Subjective reality being just our opinion of what we see excetra. First you experience something objective like you see a guy running down the road with jeans on and street shoes. You can take a picture or a movie of that. That’s objective. Then you have thoughts about what you see. Then you have the emotion. Lets say when you see the guy running you think that he must be running from somebody and it scares you. What if your first thought was “look at that guy, he has no running clothes but he still wants to work out?” your feelings would be more mild, say, you might feel sorry for the guy because he has no running suit, or it might make you think it was funny. You can’t change objective reality, but you can change what you think about it. It looks good on paper, but it is hard to implement. It is work, but you can change your thoughts about things. Especially preconceived things that bother you. For a while you have to force yourself to think differently about them and this period is called cognitive dissonance. Then after a while it becomes thought shorthand and you don’t have to force yourself to think differently, it just happens. Of course this doesn’t work for crazy mother fuckers like me. I can’t ascertain the difference between objective and subjective reality. Do I have cob webs on my face?       Randy
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:54:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk
I just read your other post to Preston and you are right about one thing, it probably actually is a good solution for some people.  I seriously doubt that ibogaine is the right answer for everyone, so I have to suspect that methadone isn’t the wrong answer for everyone either.  But speaking for myself, I am NEVER going back to the life I was settling for in those days… Incidentally, chronic pain, or even prolonged, temporary, sever pain has been one of my worst fears since I got clean.  I don’t live in fear of that happening, but if I think about it, it seems terribly scary because I fear what my response would be if I were to actually have to take opiates into my body again.  Bad things man…
Matt
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 6:50:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, matt@itsupport.net writes:
saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1
Matt, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are a couple of books written about this very subject you have described here. One of them is RBT therapy (Rational Behavior Therapy) written by Maxie Maultsby and the other one is RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) written by Albert Ellis. The premise of both books being that for the mind to come up with an emotion it must first have thoughts about what you are experiencing. It only works for those of us able to tell the difference between objective reality and subjective reality. It goes like this. Objective reality is those things we can see, i.e., take a picture of, smell, hear, feel as pain or pleasure, and so forth. You cannot change objective reality because it just is. Subjective reality being just our opinion of what we see excetra. First you experience something objective like you see a guy running down the road with jeans on and street shoes. You can take a picture or a movie of that. That’s objective. Then you have thoughts about what you see. Then you have the emotion. Lets say when you see the guy running you think that he must be running from somebody and it scares you. What if your first thought was “look at that guy, he has no running clothes but he still wants to work out?” your feelings would be more mild, say, you might feel sorry for the guy because he has no running suit, or it might make you think it was funny. You can’t change objective reality, but you can change what you think about it. It looks good on paper, but it is hard to implement. It is work, but you can change your thoughts about things. Especially preconceived things that bother you. For a while you have to force yourself to think differently about them and this period is called cognitive dissonance. Then after a while it becomes thought shorthand and you don’t have to force yourself to think differently, it just happens. Of course this doesn’t work for crazy mother fuckers like me. I can’t ascertain the difference between objective and subjective reality. Do I have cob webs on my face?       Randy
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:37:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:32:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it. It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 12:44:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, That is a totally appropriate response in my opinion. Sounds a LOT less self centered and I hear your gratitude which I did not hear at all in your first post.
It is very refreshing to hear someone say they realize what a great life they have! That is totally cool! I am grateful for my blessings daily and feel totally undeserving of each one!
I am quite bothered that you are leaving but I will deal with it!
Might take you up on dropping you a line every now and again.
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 12:20:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 12:01:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Callie
Wow.  I’m surprised that I came across that way to you.  Although I would have to lie to say that I haven’t been told that I am arrogant.  I certainly don’t mean to be.  When I said I didn’t get what I was after, I meant pretty much what I heard you say.  I meant that I went in with an idea of what I was after, and ibogaine had it’s own agenda, and I came out the other side with an appreciation for the gift I received instead of a regret about the one I didn’t.  Maybe I didn’t word it right before.  The unsubscribing decision is based on the fact that I don’t want to be involved with ibogaine anymore at all.  I just was very forcefully struck by how out of character and inappropriate it is to the life I have made for myself.  I can see now that I truly have a really great life.  I just couldn’t see that before.  I might also point out that the pedestal is only visible in your perception, you would have to knock me off of it.
Matt
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:49 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Matt, I am happy you are back from your journey and that your girlfriend sat with you.
I really wish you would reconsider unsubscribing.
I think that is a totally selfish act or reaction.
You said you did not get what you were after…..maybe you don’t know what you are supposed to get! You sound like you are all knowing in what you should get from your journey but if I understand anything at all about Ibogaine it is that the Ibogaine has to be in control. Can you not relinquish it?
Some of the stuff you say is not selfish or all about you but most of it is.
I wish you well and hope that you change your mind this next week. you have a lot to offer if you can ever get off that pedestal and learn how to be humble.
Hoping the best for you,
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 11:56:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 26, 2005 at 11:49:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, I am happy you are back from your journey and that your girlfriend sat with you.
I really wish you would reconsider unsubscribing.
I think that is a totally selfish act or reaction.
You said you did not get what you were after…..maybe you don’t know what you are supposed to get! You sound like you are all knowing in what you should get from your journey but if I understand anything at all about Ibogaine it is that the Ibogaine has to be in control. Can you not relinquish it?
Some of the stuff you say is not selfish or all about you but most of it is.
I wish you well and hope that you change your mind this next week. you have a lot to offer if you can ever get off that pedestal and learn how to be humble.
Hoping the best for you,
Callie
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 10:40:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I did write “sometimes has me wondering,” not “always has me wondering.
😉
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post about
my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to this.
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 6:15 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 26, 2005 at 11:14:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially shortened.  I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it.  I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff (similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning, about 12 hours ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end, very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling.  That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone.  Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list as well.  I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use of it.  But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool for that situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life.  Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I did get.  I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be some changes made…
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 9:59:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post about
my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to this.
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 6:15 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 8:15:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative, even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 12:21:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue repeat even though it never results in what I want it to. It always results in the same negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie…<
Yeah, right there with you Callie.
I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction. Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.<
sure Callie, indeed the initial rush feels wonderful, and the pillow between me and my pain is fantastic, but the rest of it sucks, the complications that arise from having that slack face and marble mouth and tired eyes and etc, etc. None of this feels good to this addictive type person, and I must say that while I still think of myself as a legalizer, I don’t like using personally, certainly some substances that are currently illegal and can’t believe I’ve done so again after so long. I’m going through yet another rought patch, which is getting so ridiculous and exhausting, this contant repeating cycle that leaves me confused, not to mention simply furious and depressed and stressed and etc. Most here know the routine I’m sure. I have yet to figure out why I repeatedly do this to myself, put myself in situations whereby I’m simply too discombobulated to make any sense of my life, and why I continue to repeat myself. But for sure I know that for me, addiction long ago lost it’s “feel good” aspects. (Addiction IS diffferent than simple use, but I’ve rarely been able to simply “use” for long I’m sad to say.)
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!<
Ironic, isn’t it. I go through the exact same thing Callie, exactly.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:31:19 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In my opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is
when “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it anyway.
Preston, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction. Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.
The one thing that I learned in twelve step groups that was right on was…..”Insanity is repeating the same behavior that causes trouble or pain always expecting a different outcome.” That is basically what you are saying too, isn’t it? This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue repeat even though it never results in what I want it to. It always results in the same negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!
I am hoping Ibogaine will change that part of me.
I have reached that last phase of addiction where I do not feel the euphoria I felt in the beginning. That to me though is not addiction entirely….just a part of addiction.
I believe that my use has ever been my addiction but the way it manifests itself. Addiction is a disorder in me that keeps me feeling a void in all areas of my life and using drugs satiates that gnawing hole in my spiritual being, my emotional being and as a result I am physically addicted so it feeds that hole in my physical self too.
Addiction really sucks no matter how you define it! That is the one thing I know for sure!!
Callie
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 10:11:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative, even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter      Randy
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 2:05:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Callie I approve:
you take drugs for pleasure or the well being it procures, whether you need it to solve or hide yr problems, or only for the well being.
By the time the drug does not provide you these high feelings, that inevitably happens one day, by then it is too late. You are trapped. There is no way back. That’s the last endless phase.
Those who succeed to break the chains, have to pay a heavy price: endeavour a bulk of various pains which are the opposite of all the various pleasures you got from yr drug. Only the time factor is different: the pain you need to pay is limited in time, a couple of days may be, or a week, but the intensity of the pain is mountain high.
b.r.
p.r.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:27:54 EST
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:31:19 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In my  opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is
when  “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it  anyway.
Preston, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not
feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction.
Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.
The one thing that I learned in twelve step groups that was right on
was…..”Insanity is repeating the same behavior that causes trouble or pain  always
expecting a different outcome.” That is basically what you are saying  too,
isn’t it? This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine  anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue  repeat even
though it never results in what I want it to. It always results  in the same
negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I
can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I
have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug
free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!
I am hoping Ibogaine will change that part of me.
I have reached that last phase of addiction where I do not feel the  euphoria
I felt in the beginning. That to me though is not addiction  entirely….just
a part of addiction.
I believe that my use has ever been my addiction but the way it manifests
itself. Addiction is a disorder in me that keeps me feeling a void in all areas
of my life and using drugs satiates that gnawing hole in my spiritual being,
my  emotional being and as a result I am physically addicted so it feeds that
hole  in my physical self too.
Addiction really sucks no matter how you define it! That is the one thing I
know for sure!!
Callie
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 11:27:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:31:19 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In my opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is
when “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it anyway.
Preston, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction. Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.
The one thing that I learned in twelve step groups that was right on was…..”Insanity is repeating the same behavior that causes trouble or pain always expecting a different outcome.” That is basically what you are saying too, isn’t it? This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue repeat even though it never results in what I want it to. It always results in the same negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!
I am hoping Ibogaine will change that part of me.
I have reached that last phase of addiction where I do not feel the euphoria I felt in the beginning. That to me though is not addiction entirely….just a part of addiction.
I believe that my use has ever been my addiction but the way it manifests itself. Addiction is a disorder in me that keeps me feeling a void in all areas of my life and using drugs satiates that gnawing hole in my spiritual being, my emotional being and as a result I am physically addicted so it feeds that hole in my physical self too.
Addiction really sucks no matter how you define it! That is the one thing I know for sure!!
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 9:06:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Changes of plans.  It’s tonight, not tomorrow.  In fact in a few minutes.  No I don’t have a sitter.  I have people planning to check on me every so often.  The other change is that I will follow advice for once in my life and try the stepped dose.  I’m doing a slightly lower dose to start (around 15 mg/kg) and will follow it up later if necessary.  Thanks for all of the positive wishes.  My estimations are based on the fact that when I got it, it was separated into two 1-gram packages.  I put most of the first gram into capsules, it would have made 5, but I only made 4 and put the rest into the other gram.  Therefore I estimated the capsules at about 1/5 of a gram each and the rest (which is what I will take) as 1.2 grams.  The rest is based on calculations from my body weight.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 9:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Matt, I’m with Callie on this. I think you have a great attitude going into this, but I hope that you have someone who is aware of Ibogaine’s effects and dangers with you when you do it. Esp. with the doseage range you are talking about using. How are you going to estimate the amount? Do I remember right when I’m thinking you said you had two grams of Hcl? Keep us informed brutha, and let us know when to start with the candle and positive vibes. “Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow”  (George Clinton)         Randy
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 6:41:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Mr. A wrote >We all like feeling good!  Isn’t that what “addiction” is?<
In my opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is when “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it anyway.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
We all like feeling good!  Isn’t that what “addiction” is?  Feeling good from only one thing in life!  Chose only ONE source of feeling good, you’re in trouble, whether it be money, power, drinking, eating, writing, composing, working, making love, etc.  How about feeling good from a lot of things in life?  A little bit of feeling good from a lot of different sources.  That’s moderation.  Mr. Anonymous
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine(Ed, on list)
Date: December 25, 2005 at 12:19:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Legal applications are always being pushed beyond their original purpose(s).  The NSA can tap , hear,or see and monitor everything.  Speaking for this klown only and hopefully everyone on the list,  I (we) would never harm or destroy anything except in self defense or protecting loved ones…. that’s even when I’m bad.  . Thanks to everyone who has taken time to read my pointless diatribes.  Ed, you are probably retired after working your arse off for many thankless yrs., I’m just a worker bee, a  voyager at the hands of some very caring  providers.  How I got here isn’t relevant  as I do not believe a schmuck like me just awakens one day and goes ‘hey things are great, guess I’ll go thru withdrawals, put my gig high on the radar with no bailout options  and  have the flu for a month or more w/residuals.  Some swear I am having fun.   .  I zipped right thru that stage 2 decades ago.  Your sleep stuff is important as is your attitude.  Many thanks to the pros on the list and the laypeople that don’t have diplomma wallpaper but rather a wealth of empiracal experience  and knowledge that they share with a fool like me.
Monkeys off of backs, peaceful paths and quietness to contemplate the experience if one truly  wants it.  I find it to be a taxing  enigma to the unknowing.  i find it very confusing  at a mininum.  thanks to all, ron, koko, bonehead, still in the clutches, hopeful thru you guys, pax —– Original Message —–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
I’m wondering whether the DEA/FBI/CIA used the “Patriot Act” to wire-tap inside the USA to “catch” the Wyoming couple…….?  Doesn’t really sound like “terrorism” to me!  Dr. Ed
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 11:20:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, I’m with Callie on this. I think you have a great attitude going into this, but I hope that you have someone who is aware of Ibogaine’s effects and dangers with you when you do it. Esp. with the doseage range you are talking about using. How are you going to estimate the amount? Do I remember right when I’m thinking you said you had two grams of Hcl? Keep us informed brutha, and let us know when to start with the candle and positive vibes. “Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow”  (George Clinton)         Randy
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 11:01:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
good luck budy!!
im with u on the 26th!!!
love and guidance
matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 13:37:24 -0000
Hey Matt,
Thanks for being so open in explaining how you’re going to go into the session. Yes, it must be very difficult explaining ibogaine to NA ex-users who are hard-wired to equate “drugs” with “bad.” I’m really hoping the session works for you in the way you want it to and would love to hear more from you, on or off list.
All the best
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 23 December 2005 18:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
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Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Xmas greeting
Date: December 25, 2005 at 9:43:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Merry Christmas!
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tracy is pretty Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 25, 2005 at 9:38:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 24, 2005, at 9:51 PM, ARON KAY wrote:
this ibogaine revelation sure has our adversary hank “the skank” nuesslein
pissed off for sure!!! he dissed the bwiti and paid big time for having a
nazi weapons arsenal and releasing a poster of a pink pig walking on the
kaaba during the 1991 gulf war….read abiut hank via
http://www.pieman.org/hanktheskank.html
—————————————————————– ARON
PIEMAN KAY- BONGS NOT BOMBS! NO TO DUMBYA’S RAW DEAL! http://www.pieman.org
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE!
__________________________________________________
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 8:37:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt,
Thanks for being so open in explaining how you’re going to go into the session. Yes, it must be very difficult explaining ibogaine to NA ex-users who are hard-wired to equate “drugs” with “bad.” I’m really hoping the session works for you in the way you want it to and would love to hear more from you, on or off list.
All the best
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 23 December 2005 18:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 25, 2005 at 8:28:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Dana,
Do you have a write-up or something for the Columbia SSDP event? Something I
can put on the Latest News section of my site?
About Mason’s comments below…I think it’s only really Dana’s site, Cures
Not Wars, that ties the Medical Marijuana thing in so much with ibogaine.
None of the others do, as far as I’m aware. Not mine anyway.
Happy Xmas and all that everybody!
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@phantom.com]
Sent: 25 December 2005 00:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 24, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Mason Shipley wrote:
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
Obviously any arrest is bad news, but from what Paul DiRienzo was
able to unravel, the other offenses seem to have issued from the
initial admission to a federal agent that some one was  waiting to
receive ibogaine they had sent from Belize. (Kind of begs the
question of why didn’t they just fly down and do it at their condo in
Belize?)
But you mischaracterize proponents of the Dutch harm reduction and
the model of market separation of cannabis from hard drugs when you
dismiss everyone who espouses this position as a pot head or “rich
dealer” with a pecuniary interest.
According to Dutch government factsheets, in the context of use,
Amsterdam’s drug policy differentiates between hard and soft drugs,
i.e.: cannabis is available but at locations where no other illicit
substances may be sold, and this “market separation” is strictly
enforced. The total number of hard-drug users is steadily decreasing,
while their average age is rising, from 26.8 years in 1981 to 39
years in 1999 (when the fact sheet was compiled). In the same period
the total number of drug users under 22 years of age dropped from
14.4 percent to 1.6 %.
In other words, under market separation,  a whole lot less new users
were becoming addicted to heroin.
Surely if it is good from a public health standpoint  for people to
quit coke and dope, it is even better for casual users of pot and
psychedelics never to progress to coke and dope to begin with. Surely
you cannot mean to imply that wherever there is pot being smoked,
coke and dope must be available on some kind of equal-opportunity
basis; or that heroin dealers should control the trade in grass and
hash and jack up prices  to support their habits.
As for the contention that tokers are just another sort of addict, or
that cannabis is somehow equivalent to the hard stuff, no less than
NIDA,  the National Institute on Drug Abuse, was disappointed  when
they found the dopamine model they relied on to explain drug abuse
and addiction seemed to absolve marijuana altogether because of the
modest uptick pot produced in dopamine levels.
In 2001 a Swiss researcher, Francois Conquet made an interesting
discovery with “knock-out” mice which had been bio-engineered not to
have a particular glutamate pathway called m (for messenger) GluR5.
Mice with no mGluR5 could not be trained to self-inject cocaine. This
is highly significant because elimination of dopamine transporters
and receptors in other knock-outs still left them able to be addicted
through cocaine’s rewarding effects on serotonin. Microdialysis
recorded the same dopamine spikes in both wild mice and the mGluR5-
deficient ones, but soon after the researchers substituted
intravenous cocaine for food, the mGluR5 knock-outs stopped pressing
the lever. Their affinities for food, water, mating were unaffected;
but cocaine could no longer “fool” the knock-outs into accepting it
as a replacement for food, water and mating.
So it is significant that Ibogaine and cannabis are both glutamate
antagonists; although unlike ibogaine, which comes along to “plug the
hole” after inonotropic glutamate receptors have opened up to let
minerals through the cell membrane. Instead, cannabinols act to
“backsignal” along the metabotropic  gultamate pathways  that work
(like mGluR5) through he second messenger systems and modulate
signals of other neurotransmitters.
What cannabinols do is to tell glutamate cells to chill out, to stop
firing so much glutamate, something that is necessary whenever too
much glutamate causes cell processes to burn too hot. The original
evolutionary function of anandamide (endogenous cannabinoid) was
probably to control inflammation, which is why medical marijuana is
useful for treating conditions from rheumatoid arthritis to Crohn’s
disease, while ibogaine is more effective at  stopping “glutamate
cascade” if given acutely immediately after a stroke to block stroke
damage.
Anyway, there’s just no scientific basis for grouping marijuana with
coke, dope, speed, or nicotine. It’s even safer than beer, and in a
ideal world, we could prevent millions of fatalities worldwide every
year if we could switch the world to a marijuana monoculture.
Proponents of market separation are finally coming to see that
aggressive promotion of ibogaine via the soft drugs scene is much
more effective at separating hard from soft  than government
regulation, which is fickle as recent Dutch experience shows–a kind
of automatic free market alternative to state intervention.
Medical marijuana to deal with nausea and after-rawness of ibogaine
is an accepted part of the treatment in Amsterdam and Rosarita.
Medical marijuana maintenance after ibogaine is being more and more
accepted as an acceptable outcome of Ibogaine treatment (way less
carcinogenic than cigarettes).
With everyone from therapeutic communities, to accupuncturists, to
the National Association of Methadone Advocates willing to lend
support to Ibogaine as a treatment alternative, why spurn the support
of the part of the harm  reduction movement–the mass movement– that
supports the Dutch Model?
Dana/cnw
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT- village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!-releasing   a poster
Date: December 25, 2005 at 5:45:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
all the best wishes for 2006 to everyone!
Sara Glatt,
who is a provider of a therapy for healing and exploration,
an artist.
from The Netherlands.
Daphne V.Vliet and
laurence Cherniak,
who is many things and most of all a
Cannabis artis.
from Canada.
will be releasing a poster soon
http://www.cherniak.com/LCcmclArtwrksDcs/BdahPstrSries1.html
enjoy!
this ibogaine revelation sure has our adversary hank “the skank” nuesslein
pissed off for sure!!! he dissed the bwiti and paid big time for having a
nazi weapons arsenal and releasing a poster of a pink pig walking on the
kaaba during the 1991 gulf war….read abiut hank via
http://www.pieman.org/hanktheskank.html
—————————————————————– ARON
PIEMAN KAY- BONGS NOT BOMBS! NO TO DUMBYA’S RAW DEAL!
http://www.pieman.org
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE!
__________________________________________________
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: “ARON KAY” <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 9:51:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
this ibogaine revelation sure has our adversary hank “the skank” nuesslein
pissed off for sure!!! he dissed the bwiti and paid big time for having a
nazi weapons arsenal and releasing a poster of a pink pig walking on the
kaaba during the 1991 gulf war….read abiut hank via
http://www.pieman.org/hanktheskank.html
—————————————————————– ARON
PIEMAN KAY- BONGS NOT BOMBS! NO TO DUMBYA’S RAW DEAL! http://www.pieman.org
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE!
__________________________________________________
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 9:18:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/24/2005 12:25:56 PM Central Standard Time, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.
These black and white terms as you call it, has been the only way alot of people have stayed clean so try to understand where they are coming from. I think you do understand that well. Maybe you will be the one to change their minds about Ibogaine! I sure hope so! At least they are being respectful about it.
The reaction you got from the NA folks is the reaction I get from everyone.
Folks here on the list ask me what my hesitation is. The first is money, the second is that the only people who think this is a good idea are you folks on this list!! Even my open minded friends raise an eyebrow to Ibogaine.
Matt, you do have someone knowledgeable to be by your side during this experience don’t you? You may have said and I didn’t see or if I did see you say, I forgot it.
I wish you the most luck I can imagine!! I am looking forward to hearing you share about this.
If attitude has anything to do with the success or fail of the Ibogaine experience, you should pass with flying colors. You are a very thoughtful man. Peace to you!
Callie
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 7:18:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 24, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Mason Shipley wrote:
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
Obviously any arrest is bad news, but from what Paul DiRienzo was able to unravel, the other offenses seem to have issued from the initial admission to a federal agent that some one was  waiting to receive ibogaine they had sent from Belize. (Kind of begs the question of why didn’t they just fly down and do it at their condo in Belize?)
But you mischaracterize proponents of the Dutch harm reduction and the model of market separation of cannabis from hard drugs when you dismiss everyone who espouses this position as a pot head or “rich dealer” with a pecuniary interest.
According to Dutch government factsheets, in the context of use, Amsterdam’s drug policy differentiates between hard and soft drugs, i.e.: cannabis is available but at locations where no other illicit substances may be sold, and this “market separation” is strictly enforced. The total number of hard-drug users is steadily decreasing, while their average age is rising, from 26.8 years in 1981 to 39 years in 1999 (when the fact sheet was compiled). In the same period the total number of drug users under 22 years of age dropped from 14.4 percent to 1.6 %.
In other words, under market separation,  a whole lot less new users were becoming addicted to heroin.
Surely if it is good from a public health standpoint  for people to quit coke and dope, it is even better for casual users of pot and psychedelics never to progress to coke and dope to begin with. Surely you cannot mean to imply that wherever there is pot being smoked, coke and dope must be available on some kind of equal-opportunity basis; or that heroin dealers should control the trade in grass and hash and jack up prices  to support their habits.
As for the contention that tokers are just another sort of addict, or that cannabis is somehow equivalent to the hard stuff, no less than NIDA,  the National Institute on Drug Abuse, was disappointed  when they found the dopamine model they relied on to explain drug abuse and addiction seemed to absolve marijuana altogether because of the modest uptick pot produced in dopamine levels.
In 2001 a Swiss researcher, Francois Conquet made an interesting discovery with “knock-out” mice which had been bio-engineered not to have a particular glutamate pathway called m (for messenger) GluR5. Mice with no mGluR5 could not be trained to self-inject cocaine. This is highly significant because elimination of dopamine transporters and receptors in other knock-outs still left them able to be addicted through cocaine’s rewarding effects on serotonin. Microdialysis recorded the same dopamine spikes in both wild mice and the mGluR5-deficient ones, but soon after the researchers substituted intravenous cocaine for food, the mGluR5 knock-outs stopped pressing the lever. Their affinities for food, water, mating were unaffected; but cocaine could no longer “fool” the knock-outs into accepting it as a replacement for food, water and mating.
So it is significant that Ibogaine and cannabis are both glutamate antagonists; although unlike ibogaine, which comes along to “plug the hole” after inonotropic glutamate receptors have opened up to let minerals through the cell membrane. Instead, cannabinols act to “backsignal” along the metabotropic  gultamate pathways  that work (like mGluR5) through he second messenger systems and modulate signals of other neurotransmitters.
What cannabinols do is to tell glutamate cells to chill out, to stop firing so much glutamate, something that is necessary whenever too much glutamate causes cell processes to burn too hot. The original evolutionary function of anandamide (endogenous cannabinoid) was probably to control inflammation, which is why medical marijuana is useful for treating conditions from rheumatoid arthritis to Crohn’s disease, while ibogaine is more effective at  stopping “glutamate cascade” if given acutely immediately after a stroke to block stroke damage.
Anyway, there’s just no scientific basis for grouping marijuana with coke, dope, speed, or nicotine. It’s even safer than beer, and in a ideal world, we could prevent millions of fatalities worldwide every year if we could switch the world to a marijuana monoculture.
Proponents of market separation are finally coming to see that aggressive promotion of ibogaine via the soft drugs scene is much more effective at separating hard from soft  than government regulation, which is fickle as recent Dutch experience shows–a kind of automatic free market alternative to state intervention.
Medical marijuana to deal with nausea and after-rawness of ibogaine is an accepted part of the treatment in Amsterdam and Rosarita. Medical marijuana maintenance after ibogaine is being more and more accepted as an acceptable outcome of Ibogaine treatment (way less carcinogenic than cigarettes).
With everyone from therapeutic communities, to accupuncturists, to the National Association of Methadone Advocates willing to lend support to Ibogaine as a treatment alternative, why spurn the support of the part of the harm  reduction movement–the mass movement– that supports the Dutch Model?
Dana/cnw
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 6:34:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx for your response!  Dr. Ed
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:57:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think there are some valid arguments for the separation of the ibogaine and medical marijuana movements, but on the other hand, think about this… They are both medicines that patients have largely discovered themselves. People generally use ibogaine or medical marijuana because they themselves, or their friends, have discovered that they work, rather than because a doctor tells them to take them. And I think this is a large part of why both are illegal here. So in that sense, I think the ibogaine and medical marijuana movements have a lot in common. They are both striving to legitamise medicines that the proponents know work, because they’ve worked for them. Both are naturally occuring substances that have traditionally* been seen as deviant drugs, and so both face similar obstacles to acheiving a place in conventional medicine.
* when i say traditional i’m referring to conventional opinions in the US from the past 40 years or so. not traditional as in older cultutes, where both ibogaine and marijuana have had accepted uses for centuries or longer…
Mason Shipley wrote:
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
On 12/24/05, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
   Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
  Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
  Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:44:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sleep is no doubt an important part of recovery, mental health, and health in general. But to think that it’s the only thing that affects recovery is to ignore a lot of other important factors. I think it’s important to look at both the macro and micro analysis. If you only focus on one or the other, you’re missing half the picture.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
Am following and trying to understand your analysis.  To me it seems more of the same ?lost country that modern psychiatrists are in, micro-analysis of brain sites and chemicals which continue to be far more numerous and interactive than we have to capacity to understand and in which to intervene effectively.  I prefer the “macro-analysis” of understanding the ONE healing phenomenon of the brain…..SLEEP.  It helps me understand WHO becomes susceptible to drug abuse, and pursue the possibility that the, as yet unsolved dilemma, of replacing sleep needs could be an answer.  Ibogaine sounds to me as though it replaces REM-Stage Sleep in a dramatic fashion.  All “addicting” drugs prevent REM-replacement, but allow NREM Slow Wave Sleep, which may be why addicts stay as physically “healthy” as they do, despite horrible health habits.  I’m presuming that SWS helps body healing, but REM is necessary for MENTAL-EMOTIONAL-LIMBIC healing.  Sooner or later the REM-“pressure” even eats away at the SWS need, requiring higher and higher doses of narcotic to control it……or…..disaster and/or death.  Of course, long range Recovery is still the BIG issue, even if folks temporarily “catch-up” on sleep needs with ibogaine/plus?  I tried valiantly to reproduce “normal” sleep with low doses of Doxepin and Thioridazine on a variety of patients, not all addicts, with “Chronic Organic Insomnia” for years with some partial success, but couldn’t get the blessings of my psychiatrist colleagues who were enamored with “over-doses” of “second-generation” antipsychotics, antidepressants and mood stabilizers.  Would appreciate your thoughts/reaction.  Dr. Ed
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:02:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, jfreed1@umbc.edu
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Am following and trying to understand your analysis.  To me it seems more of the same ?lost country that modern psychiatrists are in, micro-analysis of brain sites and chemicals which continue to be far more numerous and interactive than we have to capacity to understand and in which to intervene effectively.  I prefer the “macro-analysis” of understanding the ONE healing phenomenon of the brain…..SLEEP.  It helps me understand WHO becomes susceptible to drug abuse, and pursue the possibility that the, as yet unsolved dilemma, of replacing sleep needs could be an answer.  Ibogaine sounds to me as though it replaces REM-Stage Sleep in a dramatic fashion.  All “addicting” drugs prevent REM-replacement, but allow NREM Slow Wave Sleep, which may be why addicts stay as physically “healthy” as they do, despite horrible health habits.  I’m presuming that SWS helps body healing, but REM is necessary for MENTAL-EMOTIONAL-LIMBIC healing.  Sooner or later the REM-“pressure” even eats away at the SWS need, requiring higher and higher doses of narcotic to control it……or…..disaster and/or death.  Of course, long range Recovery is still the BIG issue, even if folks temporarily “catch-up” on sleep needs with ibogaine/plus?  I tried valiantly to reproduce “normal” sleep with low doses of Doxepin and Thioridazine on a variety of patients, not all addicts, with “Chronic Organic Insomnia” for years with some partial success, but couldn’t get the blessings of my psychiatrist colleagues who were enamored with “over-doses” of “second-generation” antipsychotics, antidepressants and mood stabilizers.  Would appreciate your thoughts/reaction.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 4:06:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
We all like feeling good!  Isn’t that what “addiction” is?  Feeling good from only one thing in life!  Chose only ONE source of feeling good, you’re in trouble, whether it be money, power, drinking, eating, writing, composing, working, making love, etc.  How about feeling good from a lot of things in life?  A little bit of feeling good from a lot of different sources.  That’s moderation.  Mr. Anonymous
From: Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 3:40:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
On 12/24/05, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 3:29:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dana, I’m over it. I’m gald very gald the story made it to press and anything that helps the movement is fine with me. I was just a bit upset that I was named without my concent. Merry Christmas and I’ll stop by tomorrow. -m.
From:  Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date:  Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:21:41 -0500
>
>On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
>>
>>You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands
>>out
>>those quotes and names 😉
>>
>>Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
>>anybody
>>who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
>>type
>>their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
>>heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
>>middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
>>
>>If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
>>problem 😉
>>I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be
>>you.
>>Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
>>  get
>>a job anymore.
>>
>>.:vector:.
>>
>
>On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE
>to  plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet
>this  is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers
>and harm  reduction folks around NYC?
>
>The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
>  how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
>getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
>Sept.)
>
>We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
>team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
>presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
>  is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is
>cholinergic.  So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it
>makes no sense  to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not
>just ask users  what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is:
>it’s dreamlike.  Hence acetyl-choline.
>
>Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
>  day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
>have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
>
>
>Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
>
>P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
>Lincoln Detox:
>
>>From: mollie@freedom-center.org
>>
>>      Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
>>I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
>>  us—from a
>>combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
>>beginning of
>>january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
>>     Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
>>through safe,
>>effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
>>focus we
>>thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
>>trip. What do
>>you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
>>     Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy
>>with  the
>>training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
>>the weekend
>>we may have some available time.
>>
>>Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great
>>work!
>>
>>Mollie Hurter.
>>
>
>Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
>
>
>
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 3:21:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic. So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike. Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 2:07:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:29:21 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as
though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I
was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.
I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of
biological predisposition to depression.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing
psychologists all through school because I acted out violently
and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and
then later better stuff.
For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were
a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the
other way around.
Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with
feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My
life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a
girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have
ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my
life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel
like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking
stand it anymore.
You may have heard the theory that people learn to treat their
childhood as the norm, no matter how bad it was, and that when
conditions change, even for the better, it can seem false and make
the person uneasy, missing the old state. From what you have said,
this theory seems much more likely than a hereditary disposition to
depression.
… So being that I have been anxious about this
whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.
… I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose
affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours
later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and
I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I
want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as
I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it
completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel,
by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the
effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a
low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear
that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too
much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of
surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that
the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going
to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that
it should be a little higher.
There is something paradoxical about trying to surrender by setting
up the right conditions for it.
I think that too high a dose can limit the possibilities for
surrender as much or more than a low dose, particularly when
working without supervision. A basic sense of safety is met when
doing something like this with a trusted guide, and doing it alone
can cause one to clam up in the face of the unknown. Thus
overshooting the dose can be one way to keep control.
I advocate a stepped dose because then the iboga can guide you.
Also I think that one week before returning to work is a short time
for an upper-range dose – mainly because with such a dose you could
spend another week working on yourself in a way that returning to
your normal patterns could prevent.
In any case, it sounds like your life is good, and having a
psychologist lined up for after the iboga is a good sign. I am
holding best wishes for your experience however you pursue it.
My own experience has been that one can only move forward, i.e.
there is no point in trying to recreate an old experience, and that
although there can be bursts of amazing progress, in the end one
has to settle for slow but continuous work and revelation in order
to keep moving. For entheogens, ayahuasca works better for me in
this context, partly because it is much easier on the body, and
partly because I do it in a church and there can be beauty,
meaning, and parallel learning in that.. and a sense of safety in
collective effort. It almost sounds easy! But it’s not 🙂
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 11:20:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow! Matt, you have given this alot of thought & I respect that.I’ll be interested in your reflections when you come “back”,love shell
Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..
Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.
You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 6:16:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanks jon and merry christmas everybody
-ekki
Am 23.12.2005 um 18:46 schrieb jon:
oh, my bad… i should have said that most recreational drugs reduce the PRODUCTION of serotonin in the NAC..
this is an important distinction; affecting the production of a neurotransmitter is different than affect its release… for example, MDMA increases serotonin RELEASE, not production. that’s why a lot of people experience a brief depression a day or two after taking MDMA, cause their neurons have squirted out most of their serotonin.
But you’re definately right that it’s more complicated than just increasing or decreasing levels of certain neurotransmitters. For example, many drugs increase levels of serotonin in some areas of the brain, while decreasing it in others. Now, there are 14 serotonin receptors (that we know of), which all do somewhat different things. So even just looking at serotonin, two drugs that both increase serotonin levels may have significantly different effects based on which serotonin receptors they’re activiting. Then, if you also consider that there are some 50 other neurotransmitters (that we know of), the picture gets mighty complex indeed. Then factor in the fact that affecting the transmission of one neurotransmitter is also likely to affect the transmission of other neurotransmitters, and it get’s even more complex.
So, to figure out how ibogaine exerts its anti-addictive effects, you probably have to take into account all the different neurotransmitters it affects and how they interact.
As far as noribogaine, I would suspect that it does play a role in the anti-addictive effects, but I would be skeptical that it plays a bigger role than ibogaine itself. I mean, I certainly think it’s important to study noribogaine’s effects, but I do think Mash is getting a bit preoccupied with it, probably because of her financial interests in it (though that’s just my opinion, I don’t have anything solid to back that up).
Regarding DXM, I don’t know how that would affect ibogaine’s effects. But there has been some research showing that DXM has some anti-addictive effects in its own right. Which I find pretty interesting, as DXM is derived from opiates. =)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:29:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:43:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I apologize if this comes through twice but for some reason it hasn’t shown up after sending the first time.
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 11:29 AM
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 2:02:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
that we still have alot to explore and that takes time.
       Lost me there.What do you mean?
Sara Glatt wrote:           Or,God gave us everything but time, Datas and
agendas.                   or, God gave us everything?
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM
Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:     If there is a
shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we  should not
forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover  in what
ways  it can help us to feel better with ourselves   Sara, you are
beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no doubt about
your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I read what you
write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the
kids………..Randy
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 12:43:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/23/2005 10:47:50 AM Central Standard Time, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
sounds like you can get addicted to the cure
Don’t know about y’all but I can get addicted to anything that feels good! ANYTHING!!!
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:07:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lost me there.What do you mean?
Sara Glatt wrote:
  Or,God gave us everything but time, Datas and agendas.
      or, God gave us everything?
 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM
Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
   If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then
we
 should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
 in what ways
 it can help us to feel better with ourselves
 Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to
you and the kids………..Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 23, 2005 at 12:46:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
oh, my bad… i should have said that most recreational drugs reduce the PRODUCTION of serotonin in the NAC..
this is an important distinction; affecting the production of a neurotransmitter is different than affect its release… for example, MDMA increases serotonin RELEASE, not production. that’s why a lot of people experience a brief depression a day or two after taking MDMA, cause their neurons have squirted out most of their serotonin.
But you’re definately right that it’s more complicated than just increasing or decreasing levels of certain neurotransmitters. For example, many drugs increase levels of serotonin in some areas of the brain, while decreasing it in others. Now, there are 14 serotonin receptors (that we know of), which all do somewhat different things. So even just looking at serotonin, two drugs that both increase serotonin levels may have significantly different effects based on which serotonin receptors they’re activiting. Then, if you also consider that there are some 50 other neurotransmitters (that we know of), the picture gets mighty complex indeed. Then factor in the fact that affecting the transmission of one neurotransmitter is also likely to affect the transmission of other neurotransmitters, and it get’s even more complex.
So, to figure out how ibogaine exerts its anti-addictive effects, you probably have to take into account all the different neurotransmitters it affects and how they interact.
As far as noribogaine, I would suspect that it does play a role in the anti-addictive effects, but I would be skeptical that it plays a bigger role than ibogaine itself. I mean, I certainly think it’s important to study noribogaine’s effects, but I do think Mash is getting a bit preoccupied with it, probably because of her financial interests in it (though that’s just my opinion, I don’t have anything solid to back that up).
Regarding DXM, I don’t know how that would affect ibogaine’s effects. But there has been some research showing that DXM has some anti-addictive effects in its own right. Which I find pretty interesting, as DXM is derived from opiates. =)
hi jon, i´ve read that some recreational drugs, especially MDMA of course, but also amph/meth and to a lesser degree cocaine and nicotine raise levels of serotonine (i mean immediately and not in the long run), however i´m not sure in which region of the brain. could you please point to a paper that states that recreational drugs reduce serotonin?
Popik states “this alkaloid (ibogaine) can produce complex (and sometimes apparently opposite) effects on dopaminergic function.” btw it has been shown that SSRI´s can cause imbalance between dopaminergic and serotonergic systems and serotonin can use pathways of dopamin, too. anyway i asume that ibogaine maybe balances dopaminergic as well as serotonergic systems and their relationship to each other rather than just raising and lowering levels.
but since dopamin and serotonin can be regulated with other medications than ibogain but without any miraculous anti-addiction results the anti-addicitve properties might be perhaps more due to other stuff, too, like what you describe later on.
————
a professional recently told me he think that noribogaine by itself is NOT like THE killer, although having its positive effects. Glick with his research goes successfully into a totally different direction than the noribo theories. maybe Mash overemphasizes noribo because of her efforts to get a patent and also in the 90ties not much about other stuff (like GDNF etc.) was known.
(see in german: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogain#Medizin_und_Pharmakologie and the appendant discussion page)
_________
are there any comments about DXM in relationship to ibo and opiates? DXM besides giving CEVs,too, also can lower tolerance against opiates affecting alpha3beta4. however as a dissoiative it´s another category then ibo. i heard when DXM is taken in combination with opiates you don´t get much psychedelic effects.
—————-
any corrections, explanations and further infos apprechiated
cheers
ekki
could you point to some sources
Am 22.12.2005 um 18:34 schrieb jon:
   Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has
   that much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of
   the research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas
   as the primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC
   is a structure located near the centre of the brain and is
   associated with the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this
   structure that is thought to be laregly responsible for mediating
   the reinforcing effects of drugs. When you take a drug such as
   cocaine or methamphetamine, it releases a rush of dopamine in the
   NAC, while reducing serotonin levels. Other drugs, such as opiates,
   cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine, barbiturates.. pretty much any
   other “fun” drug you can think of.. also increase dopamine and
   reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly.
   There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various
   other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which sends
   signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin.
   Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have
   the strongest reinforcing effects.
   There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in
   this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in
   the neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental
   area (VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal
   cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of
   the pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
   Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there
   it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations
   of serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs
   do). However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s
   anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system
   certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate
   addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic
   receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in
   addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA)
   interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to
   stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
   So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects
   through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But,
   most of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction)
   probably happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
   But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain
   neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4
   nicotinic receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that
   there is a transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This
   just isn’t something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on
   the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in
   sensorium.” While the cortex does play a role in memory formation,
   associating new memories with previously stored memories, the bulk
   of the brain’s work
   in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in
   the hippocampal region.
   It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one
   brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work
   together for just about everything the brain does.
       As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with
       my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non
       educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of
       more experienced people around here to really explain the
       process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the
       body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
       Ibogaine repair process – theory
       Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In
       my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block
       certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be
       partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity
       of Ibogaine in blood.
       As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the
       brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner
       structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration
       comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and
       memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly
       awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy
       simply has to go somewhere.
       Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as
       these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and
       demands to operate. This is the reset process.
       On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind
       of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more
       coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: Stop mailing
Date: December 23, 2005 at 12:06:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
you need to follow instructions for removal. Merry Christmas!
Callie
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 11:46:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..
Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.
You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
Date: December 23, 2005 at 10:16:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx for sending that Callie. Some interesting things in there. Sending you best wishes and hoping for a happy holiday for you down in Tenn.         Randy
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks (was:Ibogaine repair process – theory)
Date: December 23, 2005 at 9:39:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi jon, i´ve read that some recreational drugs, especially MDMA of course, but also amph/meth and to a lesser degree cocaine and nicotine raise levels of serotonine (i mean immediately and not in the long run), however i´m not sure in which region of the brain. could you please point to a paper that states that recreational drugs reduce serotonin?
Popik states “this alkaloid (ibogaine) can produce complex (and sometimes apparently opposite) effects on dopaminergic function.” btw it has been shown that SSRI´s can cause imbalance between dopaminergic and serotonergic systems and serotonin can use pathways of dopamin, too. anyway i asume that ibogaine maybe balances dopaminergic as well as serotonergic systems and their relationship to each other rather than just raising and lowering levels.
but since dopamin and serotonin can be regulated with other medications than ibogain but without any miraculous anti-addiction results the anti-addicitve properties might be perhaps more due to other stuff, too, like what you describe later on.
————
a professional recently told me he think that noribogaine by itself is NOT like THE killer, although having its positive effects. Glick with his research goes successfully into a totally different direction than the noribo theories. maybe Mash overemphasizes noribo because of her efforts to get a patent and also in the 90ties not much about other stuff (like GDNF etc.) was known.
(see in german: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogain#Medizin_und_Pharmakologie and the appendant discussion page)
_________
are there any comments about DXM in relationship to ibo and opiates? DXM besides giving CEVs,too, also can lower tolerance against opiates affecting alpha3beta4. however as a dissoiative it´s another category then ibo. i heard when DXM is taken in combination with opiates you don´t get much psychedelic effects.
—————-
any corrections, explanations and further infos apprechiated
cheers
ekki
could you point to some sources
Am 22.12.2005 um 18:34 schrieb jon:
Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has that much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of the research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas as the primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC is a structure located near the centre of the brain and is associated with the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this structure that is thought to be laregly responsible for mediating the reinforcing effects of drugs. When you take a drug such as cocaine or methamphetamine, it releases a rush of dopamine in the NAC, while reducing serotonin levels. Other drugs, such as opiates, cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine, barbiturates.. pretty much any other “fun” drug you can think of.. also increase dopamine and reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly. There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which sends signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin. Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have the strongest reinforcing effects.
There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in the neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental area (VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of the pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations of serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs do). However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA) interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But, most of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction) probably happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that there is a transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This just isn’t something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium.” While the cortex does play a role in memory formation, associating new memories with previously stored memories, the bulk of the brain’s work
in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in the hippocampal region.
It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work together for just about everything the brain does.
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 23, 2005 at 7:03:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you Jon, this is what I wanted to hear.
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Předmět: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Datum: 22.12.2005 18:36:27
—————————————-
Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has that
much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of the
research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas as the
primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC is a
structure located near the centre of the brain and is associated with
the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this structure that is
thought to be laregly responsible for mediating the reinforcing effects
of drugs. When you take a drug such as cocaine or methamphetamine, it
releases a rush of dopamine in the NAC, while reducing serotonin levels.
Other drugs, such as opiates, cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine,
barbiturates.. pretty much any other “fun” drug you can think of.. also
increase dopamine and reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly. There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which
sends signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin.
Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have the
strongest reinforcing effects.
There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in the
neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental area
(VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of the
pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations of
serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs do).
However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s
anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system
certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate
addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic
receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in
addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA)
interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to
stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects
through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But, most
of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction) probably
happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain
neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic
receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that there is a
transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This just isn’t
something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on the surface
there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium.” While
the cortex does play a role in memory formation, associating new
memories with previously stored memories, the bulk of the brain’s work
in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in the hippocampal region.
It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one
brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work
together for just about everything the brain does.
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory
and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area.
It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to
really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the
body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision,
when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within
the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on
amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s
hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and
therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are
imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly
awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go
somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are
not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the
reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment)
memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones
own life.
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 5:09:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Or,God gave us everything but time, Datas and agendas.
     or, God gave us everything?
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM
Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
  If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then
we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to
you and the kids………..Randy
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From: “Zohar M.” <zo@megfish.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Stop mailing
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:24:59 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Haloo good day
S.V.P. move me from the list
Zo
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
Date: December 23, 2005 at 2:08:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
OI who you callin’ a addict??????????????
Oh, right, most of us…
heh
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2005 8:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
International Center Newsletter
thought some of you addicts might like to see this.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:59:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
International Center Newsletter
thought some of you addicts might like to see this.
Callie
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+ OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:51:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then
we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to
discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what
you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the
kids………..Randy
FROM
Harald Pinter speech,
 “When we look into a mirror we think the image that confronts us is
accurate. But
move a millimetre and the image changes. We are actually looking at a
never-ending range of reflections. But sometimes a writer has to smash the
mirror – for it is on the other side of that mirror that the truth stares
at us.
   I believe that despite the enormous odds which exist, unflinching,
unswerving,
fierce intellectual determination, as citizens, to define the real truth
of our
lives and our societies is a crucial obligation which devolves upon us
all. It
is in fact mandatory.
   If such a determination is not embodied in our political vision we
have no hope
of restoring what is so nearly lost to us – the dignity of man.”
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Question for Dr. Ed
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:48:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
MILK THISTLE plus all other blood cleansing liver friendly herbs.
Or Essiac.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2005 5:59 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Question for Dr. Ed
Dr. Ed,
I really don’t know your credentials. Really specialty is a more fitting word but I have a question that maybe you could answer.
I have been seen by my Doc regarding this but she is clueless as to what is causing it but she admittedly does not know a lot about Methadone Maintenance and/or long term adverse reactions to Methadone.
I have been on Methadone 6 years and 10 months, so almost 7 years. I have Hepatitis C and it has not been treated, i.e., no Interferon or other medication therapies. My liver profile enzymes are always WNL. The only thing that was abnormal on last visit was a sed rate that was ordered because of Rheumatoid Arthritis symptoms I am displaying. My RA screen was negative though but my sed rate was quite elevated. sorry but I can’t remember results. All that may not be specific anyway.
My question is (FINALLY!!) The tops of my feet and my hands itch severely 2 or 3 times a week. I have no rash, no redness, no symptoms at all when itching except SEVERE itching. I have tried cortisone topically and Prednisone po, Dep-Medrol Dospak po, Atarax po, alcohol rubs, lotions, warm foot baths with and without Epsom Salts and nothing helped. Also take Benadryl 50 mg when I have episodes but it doesn’t help either.
The only thing that does halfway help and it helps only a few minutes is spraying them with the coldest water I can get out of faucet. I have used foot baths with ice water and that helps too but it is a hassle.
I have noticed some decreased sensation to cold temperature on top of my feet.
I do not have diabetes. Blood glucose is always WNL. I check it often because I have access to machine and have experienced 20 to 30 pound weight gain since starting Methadone.
I read your post about carbs and Methadone. Could that make my feet and hands itch?
I read on Internet in a couple of places where other people with hep C complained of same thing and the answer given them was increased bilirubin salts in skin. I am not jaundice now and have not been sine I contracted hep B 15 years ago.
Do you have any ideas?
Thanks and Peace to you!
Callie
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:40:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to
discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what
you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the
kids………..Randy
Thanks Randy, same to you! Happy Holidays!
Sara
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Question for Dr. Ed
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:59:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dr. Ed,
I really don’t know your credentials. Really specialty is a more fitting word but I have a question that maybe you could answer.
I have been seen by my Doc regarding this but she is clueless as to what is causing it but she admittedly does not know a lot about Methadone Maintenance and/or long term adverse reactions to Methadone.
I have been on Methadone 6 years and 10 months, so almost 7 years. I have Hepatitis C and it has not been treated, i.e., no Interferon or other medication therapies. My liver profile enzymes are always WNL. The only thing that was abnormal on last visit was a sed rate that was ordered because of Rheumatoid Arthritis symptoms I am displaying. My RA screen was negative though but my sed rate was quite elevated. sorry but I can’t remember results. All that may not be specific anyway.
My question is (FINALLY!!) The tops of my feet and my hands itch severely 2 or 3 times a week. I have no rash, no redness, no symptoms at all when itching except SEVERE itching. I have tried cortisone topically and Prednisone po, Dep-Medrol Dospak po, Atarax po, alcohol rubs, lotions, warm foot baths with and without Epsom Salts and nothing helped. Also take Benadryl 50 mg when I have episodes but it doesn’t help either.
The only thing that does halfway help and it helps only a few minutes is spraying them with the coldest water I can get out of faucet. I have used foot baths with ice water and that helps too but it is a hassle.
I have noticed some decreased sensation to cold temperature on top of my feet.
I do not have diabetes. Blood glucose is always WNL. I check it often because I have access to machine and have experienced 20 to 30 pound weight gain since starting Methadone.
I read your post about carbs and Methadone. Could that make my feet and hands itch?
I read on Internet in a couple of places where other people with hep C complained of same thing and the answer given them was increased bilirubin salts in skin. I am not jaundice now and have not been sine I contracted hep B 15 years ago.
Do you have any ideas?
Thanks and Peace to you!
Callie
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:04:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt,
Sounds like you know what you need to do for yourself right.  I wish you a
healing and enlightening journey.
Brenda
On 12/22/05 5:16 PM, “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my
first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose
is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably
will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be
within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for
months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I
wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who
needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful
consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half
years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is
going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am
excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just
feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I
have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine
herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together
as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around
this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I
have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and
found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do
this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on
the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:46:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
or, God gave us everything?
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the kids………..Randy
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:41:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..
Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.
You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:20:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the kids………..Randy
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tee hee
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:04:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
       For my Democratic Friends:
“Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. We also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2006, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. By accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself or himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.”
For my Republican Friends:
Here’s wishing all of You a
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:44:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sorry, got lost in the discussion, forgot to look at the sender. Apologies, Patrick!!
Vector Vector wrote:
I think that was a joke Don, don’t think Patrick has any questions
about mind reconstruction or ibogaine 😉
.:vector:.
— Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Mind reconstruction, via sleep or Ibogaine.
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you
experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred
from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using
drugs.
That’s what I found among my significant dependent  patients.
Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes,  divorce, etc.,
etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had
sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 22, 2005 at 8:16:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:34:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Tried that, I think it’s a browser setting. I’ve been spanked before for replying inline with an attachment included. Don’t blame him for turning it off.
marko@phantom.com wrote:
Gotta think about that theory for a while, I’ll down load it.  Dr. Ed
Hi Dr. Ed,
could you PLEASE just hit the reply button when you reply to a post, so
we’ll know what are you replying to?
Thank you,
Marko
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:26:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ed, what do you think about Ambien?
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
I can recognize that sleep deprivation can stimulate creativity AND that can lead to certain insights, but I deal with pretty banged up people and we have to admit that most “dreaming” is either useless or confusing to the max.  There will become a compromise is our separate theories that will be especially enlightening!  Let’s hope!  Dr. Ed
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:12:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can recognize that sleep deprivation can stimulate creativity AND that can lead to certain insights, but I deal with pretty banged up people and we have to admit that most “dreaming” is either useless or confusing to the max.  There will become a compromise is our separate theories that will be especially enlightening!  Let’s hope!  Dr. Ed
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 22, 2005 at 6:54:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s called Wild blue green algae.  It comes from lake Klamath in
California I think.
I tried taking half a pill.  It seemed to wake me up and give me more
energy but I felt more angry than happy.  Might be helpfull for
someone else, I seem to find anything energising triggers some
repressed anger in me very easily now.  I find this with other things
I’ve tried like fish oils and coQ10.
Luke
On 12/22/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
Luke, What is the name of this stuff? I could not see where you named it
other than blue-green algae supplement.
Callie
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 5:09:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda
and
the still suffering addict be damned.
what about all those sufferers?
Iboga could even help people suffering of Alzheimer’s disease.
Source: Daily Express
Date: 08/12/2003
Allan Rose of GlaxoSmithKline, the pharmaceutical company, claims that
billions of pounds a year are wasted on prescription drugs that offer no
benefit to most patients. Dr Rose, the worldwide vice president of
genetics at GSK, said less than half of patients prescribed expensive
drugs actually benefited from the treatments. He said that drugs for
Alzheimer’s disease work on less than a third of sufferers, and cancer
medication is effective on only a quarter of patients. This news may prove
to be disheartening for many patients who rely heavily on pharmaceuticals
and put all their faith in them. This story is covered by most of today’s
papers.
not only that , 75% of all sicknesses have no allopathic Medicine.
80% of all allopathic treatments do not work and or don’t have enough
scientific evidence that they do work.
I have no scientific prove but I think that all those African tribes who
use Iboga for healing and rituals don’t suffer of Alzheimer’s disease.
I think that Dr. Mash could make much more money if she will invest more
time for research that can help suffering people who can’t get dope
for their pain, and then she will not feel that someone is causing
that”death for us”.
if there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves.
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 22, 2005 at 5:08:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well you type my name into a search engine and you get nothing and thats just the way I like it. I said spicifically that I DID NOT want my name published and “they” did it anyway. I’m not sure what to think. I doubt Dana would do that without my permission, but who knows. I know I will in someway be involved with Ibogaine forever on some level but I would prefer to stay out of the freakin news papers. Please all of you keep a good thought that not too many people read the village voice and put two and two together remember it has only been 9 months and not too many people see that as being much of an accomplishment in the “straight” world. -mark Cochran or whatever there calling me these days. Ugh!
From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:42:17 -0800 (PST)
>
>You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
>those quotes and names 😉
>
>Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how anybody
>who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you type
>their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
>heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
>middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
>
>If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own problem 😉
>I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
>Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t get
>a job anymore.
>
>.:vector:.
>
>— Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>———————————
>
>It would have been nice if someone told me that they were going to use
>a quote and include my name. I think thats a total violation of my
>privacy without concent and I’m completely pissed off. My life isn’t
>ALL about Ibogaine anymore even though I owe my life to Iboga and the
>people who helped me I have moved passed being involved in it 24/7 and
>have asperations that could be seriously effected by my name being
>printed in the fucking Village Voice in a story of Heroin addiction and
>Ibogaine. How professional! I guess I have no recourse, do I?
>
>
>
>
>
>———————————
>
>From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
>Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
> >ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her
>some
> >credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
> >collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
> >
> >No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
> >words and Frank Vocci.
> >
> >Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
> >
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
> >
> >Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
> >
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
> >
> >Clinical Trials start again in the US
> >
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
> >
> >I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account
>right
> >Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
> >have one now?
> >
> >.:vector:.
> >
> >— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
> > > relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
> > > ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
> > > disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
> > > else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like
>she
> > > claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
> > > she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
> > > gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the
>start
> > > of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you
>do
> > > know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
> > > Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
> > > disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
> > > isn’t
> > > rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her
>in
> > > the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
> > > NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
> > >
> > > KV
> > >
> > > On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > “These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
> > > > the death of us.”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
> > > agenda and
> > > > the still suffering addict be damned.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> > > > [%]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > > >
> > >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>———————————
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger.  Get it now!
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>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
>http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
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>
>
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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 4:17:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Not really, you’re reading too many press releases. The only thing dr. mash is trying to bridge is her bank account and rich drug addicts. Kindness and forgiveness is usually given people who are kind and forgiving, all mash ever does is spread fear and lies.
— On Thu 12/22, Edfriedrichs@aol.com < Edfriedrichs@aol.com > wrote:
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto: Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:24:53 EST
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
To be kind and forgiving, Dr. Deborah Mash IS trying to bridge the gaping abyss between the NIH/DEA and you guys, between obsessive/compulsive science and creative artistry, probably between science and religion!  She does describe herself as a “neuroshammanist.”  Dr. Ed
_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 3:24:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To be kind and forgiving, Dr. Deborah Mash IS trying to bridge the gaping abyss between the NIH/DEA and you guys, between obsessive/compulsive science and creative artistry, probably between science and religion!  She does describe herself as a “neuroshammanist.”  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 3:17:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can accept those as facts.  95% of what docs hand out are “symptomatic” “drugs,” we have very few real “medicines” at our disposal, e.g. antibiotics.  Anti-cancer drugs MIGHT be medicines, but they are really cellular killers.  Americans are eager to have their symptoms suppressed, so that they can continue their hell-bent-for-election wild behavior of excitement and recreation.  Little do they realize that the underlying disease  continues to do it’s dirty work, because drugs don’t get at the cause.  In fact, most symptoms are ways in which the body itself is trying to conquer the disease, e.g. fever, congestion, inflammation, pain (to put the body at rest), swelling, heat, runny noses, coughing, diarrhea, vomiting…..all good ways of handling the offending agent.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 3:07:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
That’s what I thought you meant, it creates a total lack of sensory input, sight, hearing, touch, smell and taste, which quite promptly creates hallucinations.  Appar-ently the brain depends upon “INPUT” from the outside world to remain focused/sane, very interesting phenomena.  I would suppose nobody has stayed in the tank for eight to ten hours as is described with Ibogaine.  But I really don’t know that research.  Dr. Ed
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:44:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
STOP IT.
sheesh, are you high or something?
if so, share.
if not, KILL YOURSELF.
thanx!
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:42:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
— Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
———————————
It would have been nice if someone told me that they were going to use
a quote and include my name. I think thats a total violation of my
privacy without concent and I’m completely pissed off. My life isn’t
ALL about Ibogaine anymore even though I owe my life to Iboga and the
people who helped me I have moved passed being involved in it 24/7 and
have asperations that could be seriously effected by my name being
printed in the fucking Village Voice in a story of Heroin addiction and
Ibogaine. How professional! I guess I have no recourse, do I?
———————————
From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her
some
credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
words and Frank Vocci.
Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
Clinical Trials start again in the US
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account
right
Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
have one now?
.:vector:.
— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like
she
claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the
start
of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you
do
know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
isn’t
rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her
in
the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
KV
On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:35:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think that was a joke Don, don’t think Patrick has any questions
about mind reconstruction or ibogaine 😉
.:vector:.
— Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Mind reconstruction, via sleep or Ibogaine.
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you
experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred
from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using
drugs.
That’s what I found among my significant dependent  patients.
Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes,  divorce, etc.,
etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had
sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:33:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It would have been nice if someone told me that they were going to use a quote and include my name. I think thats a total violation of my privacy without concent and I’m completely pissed off. My life isn’t ALL about Ibogaine anymore even though I owe my life to Iboga and the people who helped me I have moved passed being involved in it 24/7 and have asperations that could be seriously effected by my name being printed in the fucking Village Voice in a story of Heroin addiction and Ibogaine. How professional! I guess I have no recourse, do I?
From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
>
>Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
>ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her some
>credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
>collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
>
>No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
>words and Frank Vocci.
>
>Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
>
>Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
>
>Clinical Trials start again in the US
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
>
>I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account right
>Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
>have one now?
>
>.:vector:.
>
>— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
> > relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
> > ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
> > disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
> > else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like she
> > claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
> > she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
> > gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the start
> > of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you do
> > know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
> > Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
> > disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
> > isn’t
> > rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her in
> > the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
> > NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
> >
> > KV
> >
> > On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > “These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
> > > the death of us.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
> > agenda and
> > > the still suffering addict be damned.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > [%]
> > >
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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>
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:18:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Personally, I don’t think sleep restriction by itself has any beneficial
effect. It’s more that restricting early morning REM and putting yourself
into a cathartic process, whether that be emotional release or jogging or
whatever, has benefit.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: František Hrdý [mailto:fanyz@seznam.cz]
Sent: 22 December 2005 10:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
This seems contradictious to me. My GF is depressive sometimes. I
prescribed her lot of sleep, because it seemed to me it comes
only when she did not have enough and later it proved to be true.
She usually sleeps 6 hours a day and she’s little depressive all
the time. But on weekends she has more time to sleep and then her
mood goes well. Different it is with me. I’m a little
manic-depressive too, but the depression comes from nowhere (from
self-penitence?) and I learned to overcome it wittingly.
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od:  <Edfriedrichs@aol.com>
Předmět: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Datum: 21.12.2005 01:51:34
—————————————-
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY
briefly.  Sleep
depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can
emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming
that sleep/REM
deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love
a “high.”  And
lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired”
(lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you
feel later in the
day,
once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking
for, steady
relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep
impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can
gravitate toward drug
dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating
toward alcohol
and absinthe).  Dr. ED
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:17:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Mind reconstruction, via sleep or Ibogaine.
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you  experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred  from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using  drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent  patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes,  divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had  sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:14:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Ed,
I recognize the truth in what you are saying. For me the jury is still out though. I’m not convinced either way. I still immense benefit in therapy in using sleep deprivation, whether low level like this, or more with marathons going on several days. I also note just how many people report sleep problems post-ibogaine and can’t help feeling that the drug is trying to lead the individual to greater levels of release and awareness.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 21 December 2005 00:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick:
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY briefly.  Sleep depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming that sleep/REM deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love a “high.”  And lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired” (lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you feel later in the day, once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking for, steady relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can gravitate toward drug dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating toward alcohol and absinthe).  Dr. ED
From: marko@phantom.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:13:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Gotta think about that theory for a while, I’ll down load it.  Dr. Ed
Hi Dr. Ed,
could you PLEASE just hit the reply button when you reply to a post, so
we’ll know what are you replying to?
Thank you,
Marko
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 12:34:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has that much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of the research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas as the primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC is a structure located near the centre of the brain and is associated with the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this structure that is thought to be laregly responsible for mediating the reinforcing effects of drugs. When you take a drug such as cocaine or methamphetamine, it releases a rush of dopamine in the NAC, while reducing serotonin levels. Other drugs, such as opiates, cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine, barbiturates.. pretty much any other “fun” drug you can think of.. also increase dopamine and reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly. There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which sends signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin. Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have the strongest reinforcing effects.
There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in the neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental area (VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of the pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations of serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs do). However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA) interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But, most of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction) probably happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that there is a transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This just isn’t something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium.” While the cortex does play a role in memory formation, associating new memories with previously stored memories, the bulk of the brain’s work
in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in the hippocampal region.
It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work together for just about everything the brain does.
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:05:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes, divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:32:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dude there’s no need to act like a retard, sign yourself off the list
you signed yourself on, the clue is at the bottom of every message on
the list.
.:vector:.
— Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:30:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com sned a blank email there
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list plsRe: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:35:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Are you dense??  Just unsubscribe, seein as you subscribed yourself… ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com  send a fuckin email there you idiot, it will unsubscribe you…
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:27:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Just send a blank email with unsubscribe as the subject, and I believe that will do it for ya…
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:26:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
František Hrdý wrote:
This seems contradictious to me. My GF is depressive sometimes. I prescribed her lot of sleep, because it seemed to me it comes only when she did not have enough and later it proved to be true. She usually sleeps 6 hours a day and she’s little depressive all the time. But on weekends she has more time to sleep and then her mood goes well. Different it is with me. I’m a little manic-depressive too, but the depression comes from nowhere (from self-penitence?) and I learned to overcome it wittingly.
There’s a big difference between short term sleep deprivation and long term sleep deprivation.
That is, if someone who is depressed stays up all night, they’re gonna feel a bit better the next day. But if someone consistently gets less sleep than they need, they’ll get depressed.
I’m not sure if anyone has ever come up with a good explanation of why either one happens, but there’s pretty consistent evidence of both phenomena.
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:26:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dude!  Seriously!  No need to be an asshole and spam the whole list like that.  You got yourself on this list after all.
Follow this link:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com [mailto:Tbgelfling@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:19 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list plsRe: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:23:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:20:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:19:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:18:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:18:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:17:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:17:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:16:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:15:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
pls tell me how to get off this email list
In a message dated 12/22/2005 11:06:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:03:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her some
credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
words and Frank Vocci.
Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
Clinical Trials start again in the US
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account right
Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
have one now?
.:vector:.
— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like she
claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the start
of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you do
know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
isn’t
rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her in
the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
KV
On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:53:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like she
claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the start
of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you do
know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who isn’t
rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her in
the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
KV
On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:41:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda
and
the still suffering addict be damned.
what about all those sufferers?
Iboga could even help people suffering of Alzheimer’s disease.
Source: Daily Express
Date: 08/12/2003
Allan Rose of GlaxoSmithKline, the pharmaceutical company, claims that
billions of pounds a year are wasted on prescription drugs that offer no
benefit to most patients. Dr Rose, the worldwide vice president of
genetics at GSK, said less than half of patients prescribed expensive
drugs actually benefited from the treatments. He said that drugs for
Alzheimer’s disease work on less than a third of sufferers, and cancer
medication is effective on only a quarter of patients. This news may prove
to be disheartening for many patients who rely heavily on pharmaceuticals
and put all their faith in them. This story is covered by most of today’s
papers.
not only that , 75% of all sicknesses have no allopathic Medicine.
80% of all allopathic treatments do not work and or don’t have enough
scientific evidence that they do work.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:29:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Floating tank is special tank filled with fluid. It’s dark and soundproof. If person stays there long enough, he gets in deep relaxing, REM and later hallucinations. Some explanations say that person gets to same status as in uterus before birth.
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:16:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Gotta think about that theory for a while, I’ll down load it.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:21:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m wondering whether the DEA/FBI/CIA used the “Patriot Act” to wire-tap inside the USA to “catch” the Wyoming couple…….?  Doesn’t really sound like “terrorism” to me!  Dr. Ed
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:22:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:13:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
REM-Sleep MUST do some sort of “chemical” repair of the brain, that’s the way the brain is built.  Good suggestion if the hallucinatory experiences of “total sensory de-privation” would mimic ibogaine. (Is that what you mean by “tank?”  Do you know whether that has ever been tried.  Most “scientists” are scared as hell of hallucinosis, not imaging that anything good can come of it.  You Ibogaine experimentists know better.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:07:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Our “temperaments” are difference, we usually fall for someone with a contrasting temperament.  Folks with “so-called” manic-depressive tendencies (the term is used a bit too widely these days, IMO), may feel “better” with less sleep (temporarily), and worse while catching up on sleep, which may take quite a while.  That seems contradictory, but m-ds have great difficulty truly “catching-up” on the REM-sleep they need, they awaken during REM with bursts of mental energy, which interrupts REM-replacement which never really “catches-up.”  If Ibogaine “catches” folks up on REM-Sleep, it might be especially helpful for those with so-called Manic-depressive genetics/brain function.  “Normal” people experience feeling worse with less sleep and better with more sleep.  Sound familiar?  Dr. Ed
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:52:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Same story, one more time. I know another ibogaine article, but
sometimes I wonder if the peeps writing these don’t read the last 5 and
re write the same thing the 6th time.
.:vector:.
http://villagevoice.com/people/0551,hunter,71171,24.html
A Wyoming couple was jailed recently on federal charges of conspiracy
to import ibogaine—an illegal hallucinogenic drug reputed to be a
miracle cure for addiction—sending a wave through the so-called
ibogaine underground.
According to a DEA agent’s affidavit, Jack and Karen Hout spilled the
beans about their plans to smuggle the drug from Switzerland to Wyoming
via their condo in Belize when the feds raided their Wyoming home
December 2.
Until now, many ibogaine true believers (some of whom operate covert
“addict self-help clinics” in Brooklyn, Miami, San Francisco, and
elsewhere) assumed powder made from the Tabernanthe iboga plant fell
below law enforcement’s radar. But the U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration calls it a Schedule I controlled substance, and the
Houts could face up to 20 years in prison if convicted in one of the
first ibogaine conspiracy busts in decades.
The legend of ibogaine begins centuries ago with the root of a
flowering West African rainforest shrub, chewed by traditional game
hunters to help maintain perfect stillness as they wait for prey.
Fast-forward to ’60s New York, where college student and self-described
recreational heroin user Howard Lotsof gets freebie capsules from a
chemist friend. He swallows one, and to his amazement 48 hours later,
his brain is washed clean of desire for any drug whatsoever.
The DEA bans the hallucinogen, but 20 years later enterprising Lotsof
hooks up with fellow enthusiasts in the Netherlands and introduces the
drug to people who want to get clean. He reports many successes:
Patients detox in a matter of days, without painful withdrawal
symptoms. And then there’s the bonus—one last high. Boosters say the
approximately 48 hours under iboga’s spell are spent in a dreamlike
state (or nightmarish state, depending on the individual) resulting in
greater insight into one’s problems.
Lotsof teamed up with respected neurologist Deborah Mash of the
University of Miami: He supplied the ibogaine, she did the science.
Serious concerns about ibogaine’s safety and arguments over patents
caused the two to split, but 10 months ago Mash got the money she
needed to resume clinical studies on her own. Lotsof says he is
currently involved with top-secret ibogaine projects himself.
That the illegal drug is years from FDA approval has done nothing to
inhibit the proliferation of makeshift ibogaine treatment
centers—sometimes just a borrowed apartment or motel room—across the
country. Brooklyn is ground zero, but in the past few years what
boosters call “the movement” has spread westward.
Longtime advocate and legendary yippie Dana Beal is co-sponsoring an
ibogaine conference with Columbia University’s chapter of Students for
Sensible Drug Policy in February to spread the gospel to students
almost young enough to be his grandkids. Tyler Case, a neuroscience and
behavior major helping to organize the teach-in, calls the self-help
movement a “compassionate system” that more people should be able to
take advantage of.
“People just don’t know about it. You go to the methadone clinic and
they’ve never heard about it,” says Mark Cochran, a 28-year-old former
heroin addict and satisfied ibogaine user. Nine months ago, he says a
clandestine drug treatment team in Brooklyn cured his heroin addiction
at the cost of about a thousand bucks.
Testimonials like his do not please researcher Mash any more than news
of the Wyoming conspiracy bust—she says she fears for the health of
people who use ibogaine outside a clinical setting. She also dreads the
damage bad PR generated by well-meaning self-helpers could do to future
funding. “These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 8:30:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, to add here:
It doesn’t really explain whole thing. It seems like Ibogaine plays some chemical role here too. If all this was true, one could simply get to floating tank for few hours and get rid of addiction the same way.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 8:22:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:09:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m trying my best to have a happy holiday. It aint easy. I see choas and mayhem evrywhere I look. I see addicts who hate doing what they are doing and can’t stop. I see young people becoming addicts with no clue as to what will happen to them when they get to the point where they are addicted and can’t stop. I see all this shit and try my best to help, and sometimes I actually do. Then I read the note that Jeff sends and I cry. I cry because I know him and Rachy, and they have been good friends. I cry because I guess it feels good to do so. I can feel all the feelings that I used to run from. I met Jeff two weeks after I did my session and he was still on the ‘done. I remember thinking that he looks so normal and acts so normal, was I like that on the ‘done? NAAAAAAAA I was a fuckin’ mess. I’d say that he felt the same way as I did, I just couldn’t see it. By the way Jeff, thanx for showin’ me how to use the subways. I wish they were running now because I’m headed your way and I can’t imagine that city without subways and busses. I guess I’m gonna find out how to get around without them. Walking, what a concept! Anyway it’s been a hell of a year. I’ve done things that I never imagined I’d do. I’ve been to some really cool places and I’ve talked about Ibogaine with a lot of cool people who seemed really interested. I’ve also talked to some assholes who pissed all over it. The quest will continue. I think today that I’m gonna make myself feel some holiday spirit. I’ve got a gig to play tonight and maybe when I do my Ibogaine song someone will actually hear what the fuck I’m singin’ about and at least ask me about the hippo’s making fun of my face. I’ve heard people say “cool chords man, or did you really write that?” But not once has anybody asked me what Ibogaine is. O well, I play in bars and what do you expect from a drunk person anyway? When I do Jelly Roll Blues I’m gonna think about yall when I do it. “I said stoop down baby, stoop down and let me see, somebody told me you got sumpthin’ under neeth there baby, and it’s worrying the hell outta me” I love you all     Happy Holidays        Randy
From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 5:10:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This seems contradictious to me. My GF is depressive sometimes. I prescribed her lot of sleep, because it seemed to me it comes only when she did not have enough and later it proved to be true. She usually sleeps 6 hours a day and she’s little depressive all the time. But on weekends she has more time to sleep and then her mood goes well. Different it is with me. I’m a little manic-depressive too, but the depression comes from nowhere (from self-penitence?) and I learned to overcome it wittingly.
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od:  <Edfriedrichs@aol.com>
Předmět: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Datum: 21.12.2005 01:51:34
—————————————-
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY briefly.  Sleep
depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can
emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming that sleep/REM
deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love a “high.”  And
lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired”
(lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you feel later in the
day,
once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking for, steady
relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep
impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can gravitate toward drug
dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating toward alcohol
and absinthe).  Dr. ED
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 12:09:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Methadone, like all opiates, are sedatives and ruin the quality of sleep.  You may sleep, but the sleep doesn’t do you as much good as undrugged sleep does.  This  Sleep deprivation leads to sugar/carbo craving to “wake up” and keep moving and the Carbo excess causes Insulin excess (sometimes insulin resistance = adult diabetes) and insulin causes the kidneys to hang onto salt (and water) producing edema (swelling).  Avoiding salt doesn’t really work, you have to avoid excess carbohydrates to get rid of the swelling, OR catch up on good sleep quality, OR BOTH.  My biggest concern re all of you is “Can you get the sleep quality you need and deserve.”  If not we’ve got to find an answer to that.  One has to look at all the Alternative Medicine procedures…….Do they improve sleep quality and quantity.  Meditation can, Acu-puncture can, so probably massage therapy too, etc.,etc.  I may sound like a broken record, but it is incredible how much our society neglects sleep.  You show me a person who has broken down, and I’ll find 6-12 months of sleep deprivation BEFORE they broke. Dr. Ed
From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 7:46:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes yes yes!
Bloated- man i had such edema in my legs i could press my fingers in and leave a dent…weird! When i showed my Dr at the clinic she swore it had nothing to do with the methadone.
I am still lazy but I see now how completely unmotivated i was…I amstill working on that but it is way way better
I gave up sugar spontaneously about 5mos ago…i have lost almost 40 lbs since i did Ibo  not even trying…
Methadone kept me fat lazy bloated unmotivated and the worst part was it didn’t present as obvious ,a subtle demon drug for sure. (not that i don’t see it’s place in the grand scheme of addiction treatment) but if i was dreaming up a citizen control method it would be at the top of the list. Keep em unmotivated and two credit card payments behind that’s what they want for us folks!
anyway go for it Callie
FF
Jeff
On 12/21/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
WOW!! Those are my words and thoughts exactly! I have been doubting those thoughts lately though.
When I look at myself, I feel I look addicted.
Compared to how I looked before Methadone, I now look bloated and unhealthy.
I am very lazy and do not exercise.
I eat junk food…….
Basically I lack motivation to begin the steps I need to take to lose weight and stop Methadone.
I am going to try to make it a New Years Resolution to try Ibogaine
Jeff, thanks for your post and way to go!
       “That we can share our experiences and show others that there is hope, that tho not       easy the Ibo route works still blows my mind everyday…
Freak Freely and Free!!”
Your words quoted above do give me hope and I thank you!
Hope you and yours have a magical Holiday Season!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 21, 2005 at 7:45:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Luke, What is the name of this stuff? I could not see where you named it other than blue-green algae supplement.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT- Reply to Captkirk-Check out Macabre Santa display in NYC draws stares
Date: December 21, 2005 at 7:34:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Macabre Santa display in NYC draws stares – Peculiar Postings – MSNBC.com
hahahahahahaha!!!! How about this one? I Love their imaginations! Why not?
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Geezzz Randyyyyyy ya billhilly!!!!
Date: December 21, 2005 at 5:16:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yehh geezzzz Randyyyyyyyyy!!! What are ya?? Lol
It’s all good……..the silly season is upon us.  I for one can’t wait for it to go away!!  I just want to go into the hills and commune with nature while the Santa Satanists squeeze every last cent out of the people and the turkey’s tremble in their pens and….
Ok it’s early, I’ll stop now…
Lol
Kirk xxxxxxxx
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2005 5:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling
It was a mistake, I’m soooooooory. I didn’t mean to piss you off, I was trying to add some levity to the list. I try and do that from time to time. It was a joke. I will from this day forward try and get the names right. There are a lot of new people here, (which I am very grateful for) and it is hard to keep it all straight. I still expect somebody to make an extarct from this algae tho. I’m just a dum ‘ol cuntry boi hoo kant spill rite so forgive me.    Randy
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 4:47:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/21/2005 2:38:22 PM Central Standard Time, jeffgallop@gmail.com writes:
I truly believed at that time and even before that being a methadone patient was okay that it was like being a diabetic and it was my insulin, an analogy I used for many years. I was so wrong.
WOW!! Those are my words and thoughts exactly! I have been doubting those thoughts lately though.
When I look at myself, I feel I look addicted.
Compared to how I looked before Methadone, I now look bloated and unhealthy.
I am very lazy and do not exercise.
I eat junk food…….
Basically I lack motivation to begin the steps I need to take to lose weight and stop Methadone.
I am going to try to make it a New Years Resolution to try Ibogaine
Jeff, thanks for your post and way to go!
       “That we can share our experiences and show others that there is hope, that tho not       easy the Ibo route works still blows my mind everyday…
Freak Freely and Free!!”
Your words quoted above do give me hope and I thank you!
Hope you and yours have a magical Holiday Season!
Callie
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 4:28:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear Jeff,
That’s a great story.  Thank you for sharing it.
I also want to express my deep gratitude to the people that are doing this
work.  I’ve been able to face incredibly difficult situations in the past
month (mostly fallout from years of being in a fog) since my session that I
never would have been able since my “reset.”
(Yes, Ibogaine did return me to a pre-addictive state, as far as my brain
and body are concerned).
I just got sent back from the border in Mexico because they changed their
policy on what documents are accepted to enter the country (my passport was
delayed and the passport people have my birth certificate).
I think I would have had a nervous breakdown before my session.  This
morning I actually FELT my FEELINGS and cried for a bout 2 hours.  Then I
did normal things like unpack my suitcase.
Wow.
Happy holidays to all,
Brenda
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] venting!!!
Date: December 21, 2005 at 4:10:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This transit strike is a disaster! I’m gonna need another session just to work out my anger by the time this is over. Stuck in Brooklyn with no smoke. Could be worse I could be strung out or on a program. Thanks Howard. -m.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD VANDU alert #1
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:20:20 EST
I am forwarding this message and pdf attachment from the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users as they are having some problems with the police.
Howard
Begin forwarded message:
From: Ann Livingston <annlive@direct.ca>
Date: December 11, 2005 4:45:06 PM EST
Subject: VANDU alert
North America’s first and only sanctioned supervised injection site operation is being undermined with a misinformation campaign and direct harassment by the Vancouver Police Department (VPD)
The Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users (VANDU) has held two protest rallies to support the supervised injection site, Insite, and to criticize the inappropriate police actions.  The staff and administration at Insite has so far remained silent as have the researchers and public health officials.
Recently the VPD announced a crackdown on drug users using drugs in public stating that they are “supporting users to use Insite” but in fact they have flooded the 2 blocks surrounding the injection facility with plain clothes officers and uniformed officers on foot and on horseback and are arresting anyone know to be holding or using drugs.
In addition, the police have reversed a 2 year agreement to not attend at nonfatal drug overdoses and when they attend at the rare overdoses at Insite they have checked other drug users using in the site for warrants.
Most disturbing is news of undercover officers posing as drug users and entering the injection facility.  When spotted by VANDU members they are being harassed and loudly asked if they are police officers.  So far there has been no violence and the VPD has unofficially accused the “drug squad” of this activity so the RCMP may be also involved.
This sudden reversal of police policy violates a verbal agreement that was hammered out with the VPD two years ago at the opening of Insite specifically that police are to go into the supervised injection facility only when called to come by Insite staff  or in “hot pursuit” of a perp who runs into the facility to hide.
The supervised injection site has the capacity to supervise less than 5% of the injections taking place in the downtown east side (DTES) a 10 block area of Vancouver. The site is working at capacity with 700 injections per day out of an estimated 15,000 injections per day taking place in a ten block area of Vancouver’s downtown eastside.  The DTES is home to 12,000 people of whom 5,000 are people who use illicit drugs.
The site will not allow folks who smoke their H or C into the site to smoke even though the facility has a room set up for inhalation
The site will not allow assisted injections even if the person is blind or an amputee so these folks have been using in public all along and the additional police action will cause even more dangerous conditions for them causing rushed injections in filthy alleys etc
The Canadian HIV AIDS Legal Network has written a letter to Vancouver’s new mayor Sam Sullivan urging him to act to end the destructive and heavy handed actions of the police.  We urge others to send similar letters.  Their letter is posted on their web site and attached.
Just Say No to the War on Drug Users
love and solidarity
Ann
Ann Livingston    cell 604 719 5313
Executive Program Director
Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users
VANDU
50 East Hastings St.
Vancouver BC V6A 1N1
604 683 6061
fax 604 683 6199
><< LetterMayorSullivan.pdf >>
>
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From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 2:31:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello all
 I wanted to wish everyone on this very special list a very happy Holiday season. when i found this list the prospect of actually doing Ibogaine to help rid me of my methadone habit of so many years seemed no more than a dream, well now it is more than a year since i drank that last bottle and I can not believe it!
It was not easy!! The months post Ibogaine were almost unbearably hard on so many levels,even with the nor ibo flowing freely I was a shell of a man and wondered many times why I choose this treatment. I truly believed at that time and even before that being a methadone patient was okay that it was like being a diabetic and it was my insulin, an analogy I used for many years. I was so wrong.
 In so many ways I now realize how stifling the juice was for me. I have moved forward on so many levels (tho not to say I haven’t still many long roads to travel) in this short but long year that at years end when we tend to look back it is hard to to wonder about how much in my life could have been done so much sooner, geographically, economically, spiritually, physically,emotionally, well you name it
. That leads me to regret some things that I never did before and that is hard at times- very trying and frustrating actually.
Looking forward is way easier and Rachy and I plan on moving to Northern California by springtime, I am finding opportunity where i never imagined and I am hopeful that my life now will be fulfilling and gratifying on those levels i motioned before as being frustrating
I want to say again this list is amazing the Ibo Angels here are doing work that is just beyond words. That we can share our experiences and show others that there is hope, that tho not easy the Ibo route works still blows my mind everyday…
Freak Freely and Free!!
Jeff
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: December 21, 2005 at 11:16:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It was a mistake, I’m soooooooory. I didn’t mean to piss you off, I was trying to add some levity to the list. I try and do that from time to time. It was a joke. I will from this day forward try and get the names right. There are a lot of new people here, (which I am very grateful for) and it is hard to keep it all straight. I still expect somebody to make an extarct from this algae tho. I’m just a dum ‘ol cuntry boi hoo kant spill rite so forgive me.    Randy
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
Date: December 21, 2005 at 11:07:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the months run together as I fight the dark forces. sorry list
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
Oh great thanks Ron, the one email I would have loved to see just disappear into the cosmos FOREVER and you have to dredge it up again!!!
KEEP UP MAN LOL.  PLEASEEEEEE
That was start of NOVEMBERRRRRRRRRRRRR
It’s way gone now the meaning lost forever…..
Furrget about itttttttttttttt
Have a good tinsel madness season.
Kirk ;oP
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 4:11 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
HUH? KOKO
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
I didn’t mean that……. Lol I gotta stop replying without thinking. See Ron?? Brain matter melting!! lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
God you’re thick MARK lol figure it out already!!!
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
stop sending messages

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare 
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as 
noted, really lazy.

Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.

2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet

3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one 
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as 
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))

4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again 
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I 
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there 
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but 
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for 
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story 
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first 
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys 
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that 
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in 
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I 
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at 
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings 
currently.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s 
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause 
I thought I was in it.

6. What is your eye color: Hazel

7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)

8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs 
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts 
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts 
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.

9.Ever been to Africa: No

10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s 
tp’ering.

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how 
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left 
it alone, as with one or two others too.)

12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.

13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they 
usually are in restaurants.

14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of 
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)

15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near 
Washington Square park.

16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.

17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although 
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near 
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate 
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I 
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. 
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in 
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers 
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter 
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event 
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by 
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the 
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and 
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in 
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see 
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to 
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).

18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.

19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s 
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, 
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though 
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I 
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I 
hate, so it’s a tie.

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really 
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare 
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the 
”bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still 
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued 
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best 
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat 
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because 
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet 
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total 
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug 
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as 
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower 
East side apartment like ours.

23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only 
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost 
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the 
form of a post to the ibogaine list.

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit 
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I 
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it 
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just 
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. 
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not 
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I 
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, 
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on 
their hands.

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who 
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to 
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.

30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, 
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), 
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about 
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever 
made, in my own humble opinion of course.

31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine 
years as of Halloween.

32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford 
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature 
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand 
others I guess.

33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just 
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises 
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V 
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the 
wood floor? Lots of different things.

34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.

35. How many tattoos do you have: 5

36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I 
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc. 



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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling / S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Date: December 21, 2005 at 9:09:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hah youre funny,merrry christmas,shell
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley,
no idea ! At least I’m not the only one who experiences such strange things.
Today again, and it’s not the first time, I got a mail from someone – Like,
Jon, ?? – of mindvox, but no message, nor any content ( only a forwarded
mail from someone else ).
I use a wireless modem for ADSL, and wonder wether the disturbances are due
to that system.
Often, when entering hotmail, I need to enter 3,4 5..times my password (
which was always correctly entered ) since always refused. The 6th or 7th
time it was OK.
WHO CAN HELP? THERE ARE SOME COMPUTER BRAINS WITHIN MINDVOX PEOPLE.
P.KROUPA ?
OTHERS? WHO CAN GIVE A RATIONAL, UNDERSTANDABLE FOR COMMON PEOPLE LIKE ME,
EXPLANATION. TO ME AND TO SHELLEY.
Thks
P.R.
>From: shelley krupa
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling
>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:36 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather
>than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
>
>pascall roland wrote: just opened Randy’s mail
>and read with astonishment on the bottom :
>
>***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
>
>now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time
>!
>It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
>
>I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail
>or
>email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
>very interesting to follow.
>
>b.r.
>
>P.R.
>
> >
> > > Then there’s some
> > > >saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
> >
> >I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to
>me
> >that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made.
>Algae
> >crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
> >Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
> >Jolie……….yea that’s the
> >ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>[%]
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>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] puzzling / S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Date: December 21, 2005 at 1:20:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t know how much Sunspots and solar storms affect the ADSL but they do
have an effect on other technology……. and I know there’s been some good
ones happening on the Sun lately…..
Just a thought…
Might just have to ride this one out? Lol
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 6:57 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling /
S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Hi Shelley,
no idea ! At least I’m not the only one who experiences such strange things.
Today again, and it’s not the first time, I got a mail from someone – Like,
Jon, ?? – of mindvox, but no message, nor any content ( only a forwarded
mail from someone else ).
I use a wireless modem for ADSL, and wonder wether the disturbances are due
to that system.
Often, when entering hotmail, I need to enter 3,4 5..times my password (
which was always correctly entered ) since always refused. The 6th or 7th
time it was OK.
WHO CAN HELP? THERE ARE  SOME COMPUTER BRAINS WITHIN MINDVOX PEOPLE.
P.KROUPA ?
OTHERS?  WHO CAN GIVE A RATIONAL, UNDERSTANDABLE FOR COMMON PEOPLE LIKE ME,
EXPLANATION. TO ME AND TO SHELLEY.
Thks
P.R.
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather
than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:  just opened Randy’s mail
and read with astonishment on the bottom :
***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time
!
It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail
or
email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
very interesting to follow.
b.r.
P.R.
Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to
me
that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made.
Algae
crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
Jolie……….yea that’s the
ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling / S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Date: December 21, 2005 at 12:57:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Shelley,
no idea ! At least I’m not the only one who experiences such strange things.
Today again, and it’s not the first time, I got a mail from someone – Like, Jon, ?? – of mindvox, but no message, nor any content ( only a forwarded mail from someone else ).
I use a wireless modem for ADSL, and wonder wether the disturbances are due to that system.
Often, when entering hotmail, I need to enter 3,4 5..times my password ( which was always correctly entered ) since always refused. The 6th or 7th time it was OK.
WHO CAN HELP? THERE ARE  SOME COMPUTER BRAINS WITHIN MINDVOX PEOPLE. P.KROUPA ?
OTHERS?  WHO CAN GIVE A RATIONAL, UNDERSTANDABLE FOR COMMON PEOPLE LIKE ME, EXPLANATION. TO ME AND TO SHELLEY.
Thks
P.R.
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:  just opened Randy’s mail and read with astonishment on the bottom :
***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time !
It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail or
email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
very interesting to follow.
b.r.
P.R.
>
> > Then there’s some
> > >saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
>
>I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to me
>that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made. Algae
>crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
>Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
>Jolie……….yea that’s the
>ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT : Kiwis celebrate Xmas in style hahahah
Date: December 20, 2005 at 11:18:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hahahhaah the anagrams of Santa!!!
Subject: MSNBC.com Article: Santas go on rampage in New Zealand
Santas go on rampage in New Zealand
A group of 40 people dressed in Santa Claus costumes, many of them drunk, rampaged through New Zealand’s largest city, robbing stores and assaulting security guards, police said Sunday.
http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10511277/from/ET/&&CM=EmailThis&CE=1
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Stacies reply to the energy thing – very helpful I hope!!
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:35:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Here’s Stacies answer and some things for people to try out.  I trust this lass with all my heart, she’s one in a billion! I also LOVE the way she puts things, very unique, funny and easy to follow!!!
So here is what she wrote.. I haven’t read it all cos some of it I already got and urhhh, should be doing daily at the moment heheh ohhhh well would be really interesting to see the results OF someone doing this daily before and after the journey. I’ll try!! Lol
Luff heaps hope this helps someone!
Kirk xxxx
Hey Sweets…
You are welcome to share this on your group if you’d like.
I know nothing about Ibogaine, but if it’s a Native compound used for visioning… people shouldn’t be suprised that it actually does create both physiological and energetic shifts.  The point is to lower your addictions to other substances that have an effect of altering your state of consciousness, right?  Ibogaine must have all the kick without the addictive qualities of whatever the other substances are…  but the Native folks weren’t looking to just get high, they used this stuff because it worked to get them through the jump from one dimension to the next, like most Shamanic based compounds.
But… problem is, you have a whole group of folks whose energy system may be misaligned, gummed up… and otherwise not quite properly functioning through years of misuse, abuse, neglect, whatever…. trying to use a system that was meant for~ visioning~.  It probably works pretty well, all considered… because it provides a jump from addiction without yanking the altered state out from under you… but I would imagine that those of you who are sensitive in any way are going to have experiences that are fairly intense.
So, in short… Wild Rides are quite possible… and given it’s age old Native background, if this stuff didn’t produce major spiritual and energetic shifts, they would have moved on to something else.
The real question becomes.. how do you prepare yourself ~energetically~ and ~spiritually~ for this journey.  It’s not just a matter of replacing one chemical with another.  This is serious path changing… serious shifting of patterns of behavior.  Instead of the high of the drug being the point… the journey while you take while you are in a shifted state of consciousness may become the point.
The first thing to consider is energetic hygiene… meaning, you need to clean your channels of energy from debris.  The Ibogaine is likely to flood your system with all sorts of energy.  Where is it going to go if your channels are all gummed up?  Right.  It’s going to get real congested and hot in your system.
So… Everyone… I recommend the following daily ‘mantra’ that will help to clean you out….
1) The Master Hygiene Moment…
Say, “I request to initiate the Master Hygiene Moment now.”
This is a series of energetic processes that initiate once you call for them… they are supposed to give you a nice hot shower, so to speak.  Cleaning off the first surface layers of grime.  It’s something you should do every day for the same reason you take a real shower often.  If you don’t… you stink.  Energetically speaking, most people stink if they do not have any protocol for cleansing their energy fields.
2) The Elemental Cleanse Moment
This is more complex, more intense.  It calls forth the Elemental energies to move through you and remove anything not present in the Highest Good.
Here is the visual you can use while you say, “I request to initiate the Elemental Cleanse Moment now.”  You don’t have to do this every day.  You can do this once a month or as often as you’d like after the first time.
Elemental Cleanse Visualization
•Imagine that the flesh of your body is burned away by Holy Fire. You might visualize Holy Fire Angels with Fire Hoses spraying you down. Specifically target the areas in your body that need full cleansing.
•Imagine Holy Wind blowing away any burnt debris left from the Holy Fire. Imagine all of the debris being collected into a large waste bag which will be collected by the angels and properly removed and moved along it’s own progression.
•Imagine Holy Water Angels hosing you down with Holy Water, removing any bits of small debris from the other processes and leaving only very clean and totally gleaming white bones. You might want to have water nearby to drink and a little spritzer bottle full of water to spray on yourself for this.
•Imagine the Holy Earth Angels are packing your gleaming white bones with the Salt. Imagine them using the salt to pack around your bones and bringing your ‘flesh’ back into manifestation, totally cleansed and totally purified.
•Request to initiate the removal of any negative and infected Core Images and to anchor Archangel Uriels Golden Globe around your refreshed energy body.
3) The Alchemical Sword Sweep
This is something that your Guides and Angels will intiate for you.  This step transmutes anything in your system that could not be removed because it is too deeply entrenched or set in… a part of your structural integrity.  Instead of removing it, it turns it to ‘gold’ for you. It becomes something beneficial and supportive.  To initiate this, and I recommend you do it immediately…. is say, “I request to initite the Alchemical Sword Sweep now.”
In fact, all of you should run this particular process on each other.  “I request to run the Alchemical Sword Sweep through everyone on this list in the Highest Good.”
That way, if someone gets waylaid and distracted, you can help them out.
4) Attuning to Reiki
Reiki is a form of channeling energy for hands on healing, but it’s extra bonus is that it roto rooters your pipes (snakes the pipes) so that more water (energy) can flow through your system.  It makes you a better channel, basically.  If the Ibogaine is about to flood you with all sorts of energies (Kundalini, etc), you don’t want those pipes all gummed up… you want them flushed out before hand.  The cleaner your pipes, the better you will feel… the quicker this stuff will work… and the swifter you can go on having a normal life (whatever that is).
We have a quick Moment process to attuning to Reiki.  It is recommended that you run through this process 4 full times… over the course of one month, for full effect.  You don’t want to flush out your system so quickly that you taste your own poo,  you know what I mean?  This process can be nice or not so nice.  I vote for nice and recommend you do the same.  Nasty clearing is not what you should be hankering for….
My friends and I do some processes with this that aren’t ‘vanilla’ Reiki… but extra energy work meant to make the experience much more efficient and gentle.  Those of you who are familiar with Reiki might want to partake for the extra goodies that have been added that aren’t found in Usui Reiki Attunements.
I recommend that you engage the attunement process over the weekend so that you have a day or two of rest before resuming normal work schedules.  If you set aside your Friday nights, that will make it easier for you to remember when to do it next.  Get as relaxed and as ‘in the mood’ as you can.  You can even do this work in the bath if you would like.. candles… groovy.  Whatever you like.  The Moments are easy to initiate… it’s like pushing a button that launches a thousand ships.  Pushing the button is easy, but don’t mistake the ease of use with the depth of the consequence.  Moments are buttons that kick some butt.
1)  The Pre Attunement Moment:  This sets you up for a good cleanse and preparations to receive the attunement.  I would recommend allowing about 10-15 minutes for this part.  To initiate, say, “I request to initiate the Pre-Attunement Moment now.”
You may feel slight buzzing, various sensations, etc.  You may feel mostly nothing.  Just give it 10 minutes while you do relaxing breathing if you don’t feel much.  If you do feel the sensations.. wait until the sensations begin to subside and seem to be cycling to a close to move on.
2)  The Reiki 1 Attunement Moment:  This is the process of receiving a Reiki 1 Attunement via distance/etheric methods.  I would give this 15 minutes to complete if you cannot feel it happening.  To initiate say, “I request to initiate the Reiki 1 Attunement Moment now.”    You may have the prompt to place your hands palm up.  You may feel various sensations, see lots of colors, etc.  You may feel mostly nothing.  If you feel nothing, just give it 15 minutes.  If you feel something, give it until your sensations subside.
3)  The Post-Attunement Moment:  This process helps for the energies to settle in as gently as possible and for the shifts your energy body is going to take to be as easy on you as possible.  It brings the energy session to a solid and stable close.  I would give this 15-30 minutes, or simply go to bed right at this point so you can sleep it all off.  To initiate this say, “I request to initiate the Post-Attunement Moment now.”
Do all these 3 steps for 4 Fridays in a row… or whatever day you pick.  During this month…drink more water… suck on some sea salt or take liquid minerals… take baths in salt water… take Bach’s Rescue Remedy Flower Essence, sleep more….   Be easy on yourselves.  This is a real process… lots of stuff going on.
And Finally….
The Household Maintenance and Protection Moment:
Everyone should pay attention to their energetic boundaries, particularly while you are in a transition state… and especially when you are in altered states.
I would be very pleased if you would all run the Household Maintenance and Protection Moment daily… which is a process that creates stable energetic boundaries around your living space, sleeping space, etc.  To run it, say, “I request to initiate the Household Maintenance and Protection Moment now.”
It should be done every day.  I run mine at night before going to bed…or any time I am about to do energy work… or entere altered states.  It’s the same thing as locking your door.  You don’t want just anyone wandering around your space uninvited , especially if you are in the middle of ‘changing’.
Okay, now finally…
For those of you really into this and have had nice experiences with the other stuff… Inner Door Work is very powerful and helpful work too…
I’ll just cut and past the whole thing here…
Inner Door Work
Overview
Inner Door Work is used to properly screen and moderate the pathways of connection you have to other people and realities, and other parts of yourself. These would be inner doors, inter doors, and outer doors. For example, you are connected energetically to all your relatives through time, all your past lives, aspects of yourself from multi-dimensions, all people of intimate contact and relationship, etc. Some of these pathways are conduits for helpful and supportive energies and some are not. The Inner Door Work is a process by which you ask that pathways that are currently not helpful are closed and moderated and for those that are helpful to be opened more fully.
The Houses
In this work we use language like “doors” and “houses”. The “houses” are a symbolic representation of the system through which we are working. We address 3 main Houses in the Inner Door work that are related, but which merit individual focus. The three Houses are Personal, Soul, and Family. We use language like house and door because they are easily visualized and you can integrate those visualizations into the work as is helpful for you to do so.
•The Personal House is you right now in this life and all the connections you have that are generated within the context of this current life and frame of reference.
•The Soul House is the larger you through time, all your life-streams, past-lives, future lives, and aspects of your expanded self in any other manifestation or dimension.
•The Family House is the house of your immediate family, your ancestors, and all other people in your system that are related to you by blood, heart, or marriage. To be related by blood is direct DNA connection, genetic family. To be related by heart includes all people dearly loved and considered family regardless of genetic or marital status (close friends, etc). To be related by marriage includes everyone who has ever married a genetic relative and through that union, the work spans to the married in family as well.
Preparation and Responsible Caveats
The work itself is very simple and requires no special skills or abilities. This and all energy work, however, does require that we practice in secured spaces using responsible caveats and appropriate action. We ensure responsible practice by creating caveats to the work that neutralizes and dismisses any work that isnt in the highest and best good. This is essentially the fail-safe to make sure we arent mucking around in places we shouldnt.
Secure your space for energy work by saying, “I request to initiate the Household Maintenance and Protection Moment.”
Secure responsible over-rides and oversight by saying, “I request to initiate all Usual Caveats, the Highest Good Moment, and to work within all Highest Good Limitations.”
Initiating the Inner Door Work
Initiate the Door Work by saying:
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need closing, are closed.
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need sealing, are sealed.
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need guarding, are guarded.
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need opening, are opened in the Highest Good.
Request for Archangel Michael to assign you a GateKeeper or Door Guardian to automatically orient Doors which need consistent attention. Give the Door Guardian permission to orient your Doors as needed within the Highest Good.
Intend to be reminded if the work needs to be refreshed by saying:
I ask that I be prompted to re-do the Inner Door work when it is appropriate and beneficial to do so.
Seal the work to ensure integrity to the continuing process:
I request to initiate the Stabilize, Amplify and Seal Moment/Process upon the Inner Door Work that it maintains its integrity in the Highest Good in perpetuity.
Helpful Visualizations
If you want, you can combine this work with visualizations of orienting the doors in the various houses. You may find that imagining that you hear or see a bunch of slamming doors is helpful. You may address particularly charged pathways to others by seeing their names on a door that you shut and seal. Be as creative as you would like and ask for help from your Guides, Guardians, and Angels as is comfortable for you.
Response from Lisa about the Inner Door Work
I did the Inner Door Work last night. WOW! I did it once and I felt like I was rushing through it. So I made myself slow down and do it again. That made a huge difference! What a rush! When I got to #3, my hands started tingling like crazy! I went through #4, then raised my hands up, and the buzzing stopped immediately. I put my hands together, and they started buzzing again, and I was prompted to make an “energy ball” with my hands, and as I spread my hands farther apart, the ball got bigger. Then I lifted my arms above my head and “blew” the energy ball away. Amazing!! I was prompted to work with the Thedras link more. Then I got out the Madra 911 link you sent in the kit. I worked with that awhile, then placed it behind my right ear, the one that’s been feeling full of fluid and gave me that dizzy spell night before last. Then I was promped to get out the RoseMary/Plina link and do the same thing! I asked both for any gifts or attunements t
This morning I was prompted to get out the Solar Hippy/Drano link and the Salston & Solar Cross link and ask them for attunements. When I had Salston on my 3rd eye, I saw a Wile E. Coyote type anvil float out of my chest. Wacky! Then I placed Saltson on my heart chakra and while it still hurt, it felt better. I got a prompt last night and this morning to start taking my Cosmic Essences again, and to do more research on flower essences, maybe make some of my own to go with my aromatherapy sprays, etc. It feels like I’m working through some “stuff” (not sure exactly what, but it feels right) and it feels like there’s some sort of shift going on. It’s strange, but in a good way. I’m hoping the dizziness and stuff goes away soon, don’t like feeling yucky! Anyway, just thought I’d give you an update. Pretty amazing stuff!
Otherwise Kirky…. if anyone has questions or needs help, just let me know.  I’m happy to kick a little energetic booty if you or anyone on the list needs help.  I’m rooting for everyone….
Love,
Stacie
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:01:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes, divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Phantom and MindVox
Date: December 20, 2005 at 8:33:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Patrick Patrick Patrick 😉
Web 2.0 needs MindVox 2.0 superfreak 🙂
.:vector:.
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
For the past half-decade+ phantom.com and mindvox.com have been
interchangeable.  i.e., mail sent to <whatever/whoever>@phantom.com
or a URL that’s listed as:
http://www.phantom.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
Would work the same way as:
http://www.mindvox.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
In the very near-term future phantom and mindvox will be separated
out.  phantom.com will continue hosting the website that currently
exists at http://www.phantom.com and http://www.mindvox.com.  While
mindvox.com will light up with something Completely Different.
If you have any links that attach to specific content, please change
any mindvox.com URLs to phantom.com.  They will continue to function
with no further changes.
If you have (or had) a pre-existing mail account on phantom, you may
hold onto it (for all eternity).  No further accounts will be
generated/granted on phantom.com.
Summary: phantom.com is being closed to the public.  The Psychedelic
Temple of the Apocalypse will continue to exist as the website, and
whatever accounts are already present, can continue.  Everything else
will be shut down to external access.  No more $hells, no more ssl,
no’ mo’ nuthin’
This should affect very few people, but if you have/had phantom.com
mail, please let us know; like … NOW, or forever shaddup.
This will have no effect upon http://ibogaine.mindvox.com, any of the
lists (all public lists presently run under @mindvox.com anyway), or
any other domains we are hosting.
Thanks & Happy Holidaze,
Patrick
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 7:57:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes, divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 20, 2005 at 7:51:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY briefly.  Sleep depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming that sleep/REM deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love a “high.”  And lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired” (lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you feel later in the day, once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking for, steady relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can gravitate toward drug dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating toward alcohol and absinthe).  Dr. ED
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lists on MindVox are NOT Effected
Date: December 20, 2005 at 6:28:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
One thing to clarify (other than needing a lot more coffee & Sobe Adrenaline Rush <– produkt placement):
None of this has any effect whatsoever upon any of the lists being hosted on MindVox.  The only noticeable changes will be a more reliable mail system.
The transition is complete, all the mailing lists already moved to the new servers nearly a month ago.  If you ever read the headers, they rearranged a while ago … We’re getting slightly better at this — there was no down-time, everything went as planned.  Go figure, what’re the odds!?!??!
It ONLY effects those individuals who have/had shell accounts or email on phantom.com (for the most part, this is a very small handful of people who have some unix knowledge, or are part of the Wandering Tribes, from the last decade when MindVox wuz an ISP.  <Giggle>).
Patrick
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 20, 2005 at 6:09:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi cutie, you should post to your own list more often 🙂 Thanks for
all you do and happy holidays to you and everyone here.
KV
On 12/20/05, Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
We have completed the transition to new servers.  If you had email
@phantom or @mindvox, and would like access back, send me sum mail:
digital@wiretap.com
My current mail @phantom has lotsa spam-filters chained together, and
automagically destroys almost everything, so unless you’re in my
whiteborEd (your name is in my addressbook, or I have replied/sent
mail to you in the past), it’s entirely possible your missive will
sail off into the event horizon, straight to oblivion.
There are no more $hells, unless you’re actually doing something with
it (useful to us … using above.net to DDOS your HateD En3m1eZ
duzzn’t qualify, sorry).
There are no more cleartext connections at all.  You can use https
webmail, pop S, imap S, or we can drop a forward file for you.
If you have any junk laying around in your accounts on the old box
(es), please clean them out, because they’re gonna go dark Real Soon
Now.  Go Dark = not just isolated, with most services turned off, but
physically removed from the rack and unloaded sumplace.
Real Soon, whatever you left in there will be Gone Forever.
The message queues have been re-tuned, timeouts are longer for shit
like Hotmail and other garbage; so everything should work with great
consistency, even if you insist on having your mailbox live on some
pile of shit like hotmail or msn.
There are new spam filters, and we’re doing denial of sp4m at a SMTP
level, so millionz of pieces of crap don’t stay in our queue.
Unfortunately, this also means if your IP has been blocked or banned
by some blackho’ filter; well, use a proxy or sumthin’ because we
need to keep the staggering mountain of crap that rains down upon
phantom and mindvox, off our disks.
Thanks,
Patrick
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Phantom and MindVox
Date: December 20, 2005 at 5:58:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
For the past half-decade+ phantom.com and mindvox.com have been interchangeable.  i.e., mail sent to <whatever/whoever>@phantom.com or a URL that’s listed as:
http://www.phantom.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
Would work the same way as:
http://www.mindvox.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
In the very near-term future phantom and mindvox will be separated out.  phantom.com will continue hosting the website that currently exists at http://www.phantom.com and http://www.mindvox.com.  While mindvox.com will light up with something Completely Different.
If you have any links that attach to specific content, please change any mindvox.com URLs to phantom.com.  They will continue to function with no further changes.
If you have (or had) a pre-existing mail account on phantom, you may hold onto it (for all eternity).  No further accounts will be generated/granted on phantom.com.
Summary: phantom.com is being closed to the public.  The Psychedelic Temple of the Apocalypse will continue to exist as the website, and whatever accounts are already present, can continue.  Everything else will be shut down to external access.  No more $hells, no more ssl, no’ mo’ nuthin’
This should affect very few people, but if you have/had phantom.com mail, please let us know; like … NOW, or forever shaddup.
This will have no effect upon http://ibogaine.mindvox.com, any of the lists (all public lists presently run under @mindvox.com anyway), or any other domains we are hosting.
Thanks & Happy Holidaze,
Patrick
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From: “D. Lynn Kalinoski” <d__lynn_kalinoski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 20, 2005 at 5:53:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Patrick,
If this makes it through I’m glad to see you are still alive.  I’ve written a couple of times and you havent’ gotten back so I figures you were
A. Busy
B. Busy
C. Busy
Merry Christmas and all of that kind of stuff.
Lynn
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:20:39 -0500
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We have completed the transition to new servers.  If you had email  @phantom or @mindvox, and would like access back, send me sum mail:  digital@wiretap.com
My current mail @phantom has lotsa spam-filters chained together, and  automagically destroys almost everything, so unless you’re in my  whiteborEd (your name is in my addressbook, or I have replied/sent  mail to you in the past), it’s entirely possible your missive will  sail off into the event horizon, straight to oblivion.
There are no more $hells, unless you’re actually doing something with  it (useful to us … using above.net to DDOS your HateD En3m1eZ  duzzn’t qualify, sorry).
There are no more cleartext connections at all.  You can use https  webmail, pop S, imap S, or we can drop a forward file for you.
If you have any junk laying around in your accounts on the old box (es), please clean them out, because they’re gonna go dark Real Soon  Now.  Go Dark = not just isolated, with most services turned off, but  physically removed from the rack and unloaded sumplace.
Real Soon, whatever you left in there will be Gone Forever.
The message queues have been re-tuned, timeouts are longer for shit  like Hotmail and other garbage; so everything should work with great  consistency, even if you insist on having your mailbox live on some  pile of shit like hotmail or msn.
There are new spam filters, and we’re doing denial of sp4m at a SMTP  level, so millionz of pieces of crap don’t stay in our queue.   Unfortunately, this also means if your IP has been blocked or banned  by some blackho’ filter; well, use a proxy or sumthin’ because we  need to keep the staggering mountain of crap that rains down upon  phantom and mindvox, off our disks.
Thanks,
Patrick
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 20, 2005 at 1:20:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
We have completed the transition to new servers.  If you had email @phantom or @mindvox, and would like access back, send me sum mail: digital@wiretap.com
My current mail @phantom has lotsa spam-filters chained together, and automagically destroys almost everything, so unless you’re in my whiteborEd (your name is in my addressbook, or I have replied/sent mail to you in the past), it’s entirely possible your missive will sail off into the event horizon, straight to oblivion.
There are no more $hells, unless you’re actually doing something with it (useful to us … using above.net to DDOS your HateD En3m1eZ duzzn’t qualify, sorry).
There are no more cleartext connections at all.  You can use https webmail, pop S, imap S, or we can drop a forward file for you.
If you have any junk laying around in your accounts on the old box(es), please clean them out, because they’re gonna go dark Real Soon Now.  Go Dark = not just isolated, with most services turned off, but physically removed from the rack and unloaded sumplace.
Real Soon, whatever you left in there will be Gone Forever.
The message queues have been re-tuned, timeouts are longer for shit like Hotmail and other garbage; so everything should work with great consistency, even if you insist on having your mailbox live on some pile of shit like hotmail or msn.
There are new spam filters, and we’re doing denial of sp4m at a SMTP level, so millionz of pieces of crap don’t stay in our queue.  Unfortunately, this also means if your IP has been blocked or banned by some blackho’ filter; well, use a proxy or sumthin’ because we need to keep the staggering mountain of crap that rains down upon phantom and mindvox, off our disks.
Thanks,
Patrick
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From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 1:41:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
For me the thing with REM is more complex. I’d like to also point out that
depriving individuals of early morning REM and putting them into an emotional
release process is very beneficial in therapy. What I gain from this is that
it’s possible early morning REM only provides superficial amelioration of
issues burdening the waking mind.
Nick
sleep
— Original Message —
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:11:02 -0500
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
Re how ibogaine “works,” wouldn’t a simple explanation be the best:
*Replacement of REM-Stage Sleep deprivation*, caused by the pre-abuse
sleep pattern/ability plus the severe REM-Sleep suppression of all the
drugs of addiction.  Parsimony is often the best THEORY.  Relapse
occurs, then, when REM-Stage Sleep again becomes deprived by poor sleep
habits or chronic organic insomnia/short sleeps.  Psychedelics in
general, when given in low doses which don’t prevent sleep, potentiate
REM-Stage Sleep.  We’ve know that for fifty years from experiments with
LSD.  We’re a long way from neurochemically understanding what REM-Stage
Sleep does to rejuvenate the brain, but it DOES.  REM Stage Sleep also
has characteristics experienced by ibogaine ingesters:  marked weakness
of muscles, ataxia, panic physiology and hallucinations (night-mares).
How about it?  Dr. Ed
Carl Anderson wrote an article about that very topic… “Ibogaine
Therapy in Chemical Dependency and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: A
Hypothesis Involving the Fractal Nature of Fetal REM Sleep and
Interhemispheric Reintegration.”
Sounds like a plausible hypothesis to me. But until someone studies the
effects of ibgoaine on sleep stage topography (and correlates that with
its antiaddictive effects), it’s just a nice sounding hypothesis.
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___________________________________________________________
Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
Christmas gift ideas and festive features – visit the Tiscali Christmas microsite.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/christmas
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: December 20, 2005 at 11:04:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
just opened Randy’s mail and read with astonishment on the bottom :
***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time !
It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail or
email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
very interesting to follow.
b.r.
P.R.
>
> > Then there’s some
> > >saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
>
>I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to me
>that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made. Algae
>crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
>Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
>Jolie……….yea that’s the
>ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 11:11:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
Re how ibogaine “works,” wouldn’t a simple explanation be the best:  *Replacement of REM-Stage Sleep deprivation*, caused by the pre-abuse sleep pattern/ability plus the severe REM-Sleep suppression of all the drugs of addiction.  Parsimony is often the best THEORY.  Relapse occurs, then, when REM-Stage Sleep again becomes deprived by poor sleep habits or chronic organic insomnia/short sleeps.  Psychedelics in general, when given in low doses which don’t prevent sleep, potentiate REM-Stage Sleep.  We’ve know that for fifty years from experiments with LSD.  We’re a long way from neurochemically understanding what REM-Stage Sleep does to rejuvenate the brain, but it DOES.  REM Stage Sleep also has characteristics experienced by ibogaine ingesters:  marked weakness of muscles, ataxia, panic physiology and hallucinations (night-mares).  How about it?  Dr. Ed
Carl Anderson wrote an article about that very topic… “Ibogaine Therapy in Chemical Dependency and Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: A Hypothesis Involving the Fractal Nature of Fetal REM Sleep and Interhemispheric Reintegration.”
Sounds like a plausible hypothesis to me. But until someone studies the effects of ibgoaine on sleep stage topography (and correlates that with its antiaddictive effects), it’s just a nice sounding hypothesis.
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:22:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
just opened Randy’s mail and read with astonishment on the bottom :
***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time ! It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail or email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become very interesting to follow.
b.r.
P.R.
> Then there’s some
> >saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to me
that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made. Algae
crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina Jolie……….yea that’s the
ticket.        Life rocks, turn it up.         Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] unsubscribe?
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:12:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Follow this link:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Hyatt [mailto:phyatt1962@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 8:01 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] unsubscribe?
how do we unsubscribe?
just too much mail to read.
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] P. S.
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:57:46 EST
AND REM-Stage Sleep is a “bottumless” source of memory along with being a
“healing” phenomena.  Many hallucinatory states appear to have a healing
effect
upon the brain.  My daughter hallucinates and dreams wildly while
“recovering”
from a stressful five day hospital treatment for her malignant melanoma
with
intravenous Interleukin-2.  After the hallucinations/wild dreams, she feels
much better.  She accepts my reassurance that “Hallucinations are not bad.”
Wouldn’t it surprise “conventional medicine” to learn that hallucinations
heal the
brain?  This kind of creative thinking is what you guys/gals are all about!
Dr. Ed
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:10:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/20/05 5:08:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, fanyz@seznam.cz writes:
Ad 3: Does that mean they don’t know about it or they don’t want to cooperate? Would it be possible to do ‘underground’ Ibogain treatment and then pass this patient to one of these centers to do rest of the job?
Ad 4: That means 10g would be lethal for human. What dose is considered to be maximum safe for human?
As for Ad 3. I would think that it would the best thing in the world of addiction if people go to a treatment center after the Ibogaine experience. We just have to have a center hip enough about Ibogaine to actually take advantage of the miracle of the drug. Lots of so called experts in recovery still can’t believe that Ibogaine actually works in the way that we keep telling them that it does. Sceptisism runs rampant among the higher aboves in the recovery field. Plus, here in the states it is illegal to take Ibogaine and try and help yourself outta the addiction that is ruling your life. It’s getting easier and easier to get Methadone at clinics, and on the street, so I’m assuming that the powers that be consider Methadone to be safer than Ibogaine. For me personally I have to disagree. Methadone was doing some pretty bad stuff to my body, but I was on it for 11 years total out of 30 some years of addiction.                     Now for Ad 4. When you say 10 g’s do mean 10 grams of Indra? Or 10 grams of Hcl? I’ve heard tell of some pretty high doses but I won’t get into specific doses for fear that someone could kill themselves trying to get to the edge and going too far. I think we need to work on what works best for addiction not how far out there we can get on Ibogaine. My opinion only, but you ask some very good questions, please continue to do so.             Randy
From: “Peter Hyatt” <phyatt1962@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] unsubscribe?
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:00:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
how do we unsubscribe?
just too much mail to read.
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] P. S.
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 09:57:46 EST
AND REM-Stage Sleep is a “bottumless” source of memory along with being a
“healing” phenomena.  Many hallucinatory states appear to have a healing effect
upon the brain.  My daughter hallucinates and dreams wildly while “recovering”
from a stressful five day hospital treatment for her malignant melanoma with
intravenous Interleukin-2.  After the hallucinations/wild dreams, she feels
much better.  She accepts my reassurance that “Hallucinations are not bad.”
Wouldn’t it surprise “conventional medicine” to learn that hallucinations heal the
brain?  This kind of creative thinking is what you guys/gals are all about!
Dr. Ed
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] P. S.
Date: December 20, 2005 at 9:57:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
AND REM-Stage Sleep is a “bottumless” source of memory along with being a “healing” phenomena.  Many hallucinatory states appear to have a healing effect upon the brain.  My daughter hallucinates and dreams wildly while “recovering” from a stressful five day hospital treatment for her malignant melanoma with intravenous Interleukin-2.  After the hallucinations/wild dreams, she feels much better.  She accepts my reassurance that “Hallucinations are not bad.”  Wouldn’t it surprise “conventional medicine” to learn that hallucinations heal the brain?  This kind of creative thinking is what you guys/gals are all about!  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 9:43:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re how ibogaine “works,” wouldn’t a simple explanation be the best:  Replacement of REM-Stage Sleep deprivation, caused by the pre-abuse sleep pattern/ability plus the severe REM-Sleep suppression of all the drugs of addiction.  Parsimony is often the best THEORY.  Relapse occurs, then, when REM-Stage Sleep again becomes deprived by poor sleep habits or chronic organic insomnia/short sleeps.  Psychedelics in general, when given in low doses which don’t prevent sleep, potentiate REM-Stage Sleep.  We’ve know that for fifty years from experiments with LSD.  We’re a long way from neurochemically understanding what REM-Stage Sleep does to rejuvenate the brain, but it DOES.  REM Stage Sleep also has characteristics experienced by ibogaine ingesters:  marked weakness of muscles, ataxia, panic physiology and hallucinations (night-mares).  How about it?  Dr. Ed
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 20, 2005 at 9:38:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
Then there’s some
>saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to me that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made. Algae crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina Jolie……….yea that’s the ticket.        Life rocks, turn it up.         Randy
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 6:36:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
František Hrdý wrote:
Thank you Jon!
Ad 1: So we can say: With any other method addict does not experience so quick and relatively painless detox?
There is no other treatment that I’m aware of that can take a person from being on drugs to not being on drugs so quickly. But I’m not sure I’d call it painless…eheh. though it isn’t withdrawal pain… more dealing with difficult emtional issues and some physical side effects of the ibogaine (nausea, discoordination, etc)
Ad 2: It’s not illegal here in Czech Republic. I’d be glad to collect contacts to all treated ppl and try to put them some questionnaire.
If you could collect treatment data in your country I’m sure many people would be greatly appreciative =) Send anything you find do Howard, as he is probably the leading coordinator of that sort of info.
Ad 3: Does that mean they don’t know about it or they don’t want to cooperate? Would it be possible to do ‘underground’ Ibogain treatment and then pass this patient to one of these centers to do rest of the job?
I would suspect most treatment centers in the USA are not even aware of ibogaine’s existance. And I would suspect that most of those who are aware of it see it as some sort of quackery due to lack of information. There probably are some treatment providers who are well informed about ibogaine, but I’d imagine they’re pretty few and far between.
Ad 4: That means 10g would be lethal for human. What dose is considered to be maximum safe for human?
LD50 in animals doesn’t necessarily correspond to LD50 in humans, for two main reasons. first, lab animals are not humans, and have different suseptibilities to different toxins. second, in LD50 experiments, the drugs are almost always administered in a different way than they would be in humans, usually by intraperitonal injection, an injection into the  gut cavaity where all the organs hang out.
So, you can really say what the ld50 would be in humans based on an animal ld50. It just gives you some idea of the drug’s toxicity compared to other drugs.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 4:58:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you Jon!
Ad 1: So we can say: With any other method addict does not experience so quick and relatively painless detox?
Ad 2: It’s not illegal here in Czech Republic. I’d be glad to collect contacts to all treated ppl and try to put them some questionnaire.
Ad 3: Does that mean they don’t know about it or they don’t want to cooperate? Would it be possible to do ‘underground’ Ibogain treatment and then pass this patient to one of these centers to do rest of the job?
Ad 4: That means 10g would be lethal for human. What dose is considered to be maximum safe for human?
-fanyz
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Předmět: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Datum: 19.12.2005 13:54:57
—————————————-
František Hrdý wrote:
I’ve few more unanswered questions; feel free to answer if you know it:
1. Is Ibogaine treatment only one known method to get rid of withdrawals and
cravings?
Depends exactly what you mean. If you’re careful switching someone over
from heroin to methadone or buprenorphine, it can be done in a way so
that the patient expereiences minimal withdrawal. the success of this
varies somewhat though. and it’s a semantic thing, i would say that
doing this doesnt get rid of withdrawals, it just sort of circumvents
them… because the person is never withdrawn from opiates. they’re just
switched from short acting to long acting ones.
2. Do you think it is possible to make official statistic of treatments and
successes?
people like Howard are trying very hard to assess those sorts of things,
but it can be challenging… i mean we’re talkinga bout an illegal drug
here, not everyone who’s taken it is gonna wanna be full and upront
about their experiences.
3. What are statements of official government supported drug addiction
treating centers considering Ibogaine?
Most don’t acknowledge it to begin with.
4. Is it possible to say what dosage of Ibogaine is lethal (research on
animals)?
Yes. In the rat, the LD50 (the dose at which half the subjects die) was
shown to be 145 mg/kg when administered intraperitoneally, but 327 mg/kg
when administered intragastrically (Popick and Skolnik, 1999)
5. Can anyone explain exactly how Ibogaine cleans the body? Does it restore
original setting of neurotransmitters? How does it fit to this explanation:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/closetohome/science/html/animations.html?
As far as I know, there isn’t any reserach on ibogaine cleaning the body
. I mean, the  whole throwing up thing is often taken as a symbolic
cleaning ritual, but strictly speaking, it’s just throwing up. Whether ibogaine actually restores original settins of neurotransmitters is
probably unknown at this point, but we can definatly say that it
realigns them in some way.
The way it affects the dopamine system probably plays a large role in
the reduction of cravings seen in users of all sorts of drugs treated
with ibogaine. Pretty much all drugs of abuse affect dopamine, either
directly in the case of coke and amphetamines, or indiretly in drugs
like alcohol and pot. and it’s the effects that drugs have on the
dopamine system that are probably responsible for their reinforcing effects.
whether ibogaine puts the dopamine system back in its original state or
whether it just shakes it up a bit, we don’t really know yet. but
whatever it’s doing there, particularly at an area of the brain called the nuclues accumbens, is probably a big part of how it reduces cravings.
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 20, 2005 at 1:45:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
may be you should eat less. Did you read the W.B.G.A.P.? ( Wild Blue Green Algae Protocol )
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 21:02:58 +0000
Hi Everyone,
  I wonder has anyone hear of this wild blue-green algae health food.
I bought this last week after reading it was helpful for depression
and energy.  I wasn’t expecting much but after taking it I felt a
strong energising effect.  I though it was a bit strange to have such
a strong effect so quickly.  The next day I took it again and felt
kind of buzzed.  I had to get out and go for a walk and felt like I
took a drug.  I thought maybe I’m just sensitive so I gave some to a
friend who had the same effect.
   I did some snooping around the net for information on this and
found alot of conflicting reports.  Some say this is a great super
food that boosts the immune system and energy etc.. Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.  It all seems a
bit weird.  It did improve my energy and memory but I found it too
strong form me.
Luke
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_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 19, 2005 at 4:54:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeah I think your right.  Alexandra Shulgin based his book PIKAL on
offshoots of PEA.  I don’t feel anything really noticeable from
chocolate.
I tried a drug called dyprenyl a few years ago.  That’s supposed to
increase PEA and I guess the feeling from the algae was similar. I
think I’m probably more sensitive to these things after ibogaine
therapy.  I don’t like to feel revved up, even fish oils energise me
too much sometimes.
Luke
On 12/19/05, jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
Ahh, ok, I didn’t know that. PEA is phenethylamine, a stimulatory
neurotransmitter.. it has the same basic chemical shape as drugs like
ecstacy and mescaline, but consuming it usually gives a pretty mild
increase in mood.
Do you get a similar effects from eating chocolate?
I bought it in a local health store.  I’ve seen the same jars in other
shops around.
It said on some articles that it increase something called PEA, a
neurotransmitter in the brain that is released when you fall in love
and from chocolate.  The jar said take 3 to 6 tablets.  I took 3 and
was suprised.  I felt kindof driven, like I could had more energy to
work or do things.
Luke
On 12/19/05, jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
From what I understand, it does contain a pretty good array of
nutrients, but I’m not aware of any psychoactive constituents that would
explain it giving you a buzz.
Did you by it from somewhere reputible? maybe it was contaminated?
Hi Everyone,
 I wonder has anyone hear of this wild blue-green algae health food.
I bought this last week after reading it was helpful for depression
and energy.  I wasn’t expecting much but after taking it I felt a
strong energising effect.  I though it was a bit strange to have such
a strong effect so quickly.  The next day I took it again and felt
kind of buzzed.  I had to get out and go for a walk and felt like I
took a drug.  I thought maybe I’m just sensitive so I gave some to a
friend who had the same effect.
  I did some snooping around the net for information on this and
found alot of conflicting reports.  Some say this is a great super
food that boosts the immune system and energy etc.. Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.  It all seems a
bit weird.  It did improve my energy and memory but I found it too
strong form me.
Luke
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 19, 2005 at 4:23:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ahh, ok, I didn’t know that. PEA is phenethylamine, a stimulatory neurotransmitter.. it has the same basic chemical shape as drugs like ecstacy and mescaline, but consuming it usually gives a pretty mild increase in mood.
Do you get a similar effects from eating chocolate?
I bought it in a local health store.  I’ve seen the same jars in other
shops around.
It said on some articles that it increase something called PEA, a
neurotransmitter in the brain that is released when you fall in love
and from chocolate.  The jar said take 3 to 6 tablets.  I took 3 and
was suprised.  I felt kindof driven, like I could had more energy to
work or do things.
Luke
On 12/19/05, jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
From what I understand, it does contain a pretty good array of
nutrients, but I’m not aware of any psychoactive constituents that would
explain it giving you a buzz.
Did you by it from somewhere reputible? maybe it was contaminated?
Hi Everyone,
 I wonder has anyone hear of this wild blue-green algae health food.
I bought this last week after reading it was helpful for depression
and energy.  I wasn’t expecting much but after taking it I felt a
strong energising effect.  I though it was a bit strange to have such
a strong effect so quickly.  The next day I took it again and felt
kind of buzzed.  I had to get out and go for a walk and felt like I
took a drug.  I thought maybe I’m just sensitive so I gave some to a
friend who had the same effect.
  I did some snooping around the net for information on this and
found alot of conflicting reports.  Some say this is a great super
food that boosts the immune system and energy etc.. Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.  It all seems a
bit weird.  It did improve my energy and memory but I found it too
strong form me.
Luke
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 19, 2005 at 4:13:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I bought it in a local health store.  I’ve seen the same jars in other
shops around.
It said on some articles that it increase something called PEA, a
neurotransmitter in the brain that is released when you fall in love
and from chocolate.  The jar said take 3 to 6 tablets.  I took 3 and
was suprised.  I felt kindof driven, like I could had more energy to
work or do things.
Luke
On 12/19/05, jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
From what I understand, it does contain a pretty good array of
nutrients, but I’m not aware of any psychoactive constituents that would
explain it giving you a buzz.
Did you by it from somewhere reputible? maybe it was contaminated?
Hi Everyone,
  I wonder has anyone hear of this wild blue-green algae health food.
I bought this last week after reading it was helpful for depression
and energy.  I wasn’t expecting much but after taking it I felt a
strong energising effect.  I though it was a bit strange to have such
a strong effect so quickly.  The next day I took it again and felt
kind of buzzed.  I had to get out and go for a walk and felt like I
took a drug.  I thought maybe I’m just sensitive so I gave some to a
friend who had the same effect.
   I did some snooping around the net for information on this and
found alot of conflicting reports.  Some say this is a great super
food that boosts the immune system and energy etc.. Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.  It all seems a
bit weird.  It did improve my energy and memory but I found it too
strong form me.
Luke
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 19, 2005 at 4:05:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From what I understand, it does contain a pretty good array of nutrients, but I’m not aware of any psychoactive constituents that would explain it giving you a buzz.
Did you by it from somewhere reputible? maybe it was contaminated?
Hi Everyone,
  I wonder has anyone hear of this wild blue-green algae health food.
I bought this last week after reading it was helpful for depression
and energy.  I wasn’t expecting much but after taking it I felt a
strong energising effect.  I though it was a bit strange to have such
a strong effect so quickly.  The next day I took it again and felt
kind of buzzed.  I had to get out and go for a walk and felt like I
took a drug.  I thought maybe I’m just sensitive so I gave some to a
friend who had the same effect.
   I did some snooping around the net for information on this and
found alot of conflicting reports.  Some say this is a great super
food that boosts the immune system and energy etc.. Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.  It all seems a
bit weird.  It did improve my energy and memory but I found it too
strong form me.
Luke
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 19, 2005 at 4:02:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Everyone,
  I wonder has anyone hear of this wild blue-green algae health food.
I bought this last week after reading it was helpful for depression
and energy.  I wasn’t expecting much but after taking it I felt a
strong energising effect.  I though it was a bit strange to have such
a strong effect so quickly.  The next day I took it again and felt
kind of buzzed.  I had to get out and go for a walk and felt like I
took a drug.  I thought maybe I’m just sensitive so I gave some to a
friend who had the same effect.
   I did some snooping around the net for information on this and
found alot of conflicting reports.  Some say this is a great super
food that boosts the immune system and energy etc.. Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.  It all seems a
bit weird.  It did improve my energy and memory but I found it too
strong form me.
Luke
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 19, 2005 at 3:44:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Nick,
         What I found was that it was harder to let go when very
early pain came up, particularly birth stuff.  The mind want’s to
flee.  I think this kind of early pain makes grounding much more
difficult as there’s a great deal of trauma that tends to cause one to
become more in the head.  I guess I learnt early on that the body
wasn’t a safe place to be. I suppose you just have to do your best to
stay with it as you can and learn to aknowlege the feelings are from
the past.
Luke
On 12/19/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen@gmail.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 23:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Nick,
         I read your experience too.  It must be very hard on the
body to be gone for 6 days.  I thought you’d die from that much iboga.
        From my experience I find I get a greater release of material
the higher doses, not as high as yours though :).  I agree that you
can get results on lower doses after a being broken open by a few high
doses.  I think your ability to surrender depends on what kind of
material is trying to surface and where you are in the healing.  Some
things are just too painfull for the mind to face willingly.
Luke
Hi Luke,
Yes, you are right that the dosing thing is different if you’ve done an
initiatory level dose sometime in your life. You no longer need to work at
high doses because, as you say, the mind has already been broken open. Would
be good to hear what Bwiti guys think about all this.
About surrender, I think there’s also another factor to be looked at, in
that fear tends to escalate as dose is increased. Thus, again, I don’t think
it’s as simple as increasing dosage to move towards greater surrender.
Generally, I don’t think there’s so much that can be done with the iboga to
increase this surrender thing. That you trust the people and place you’re at
is obviously a big factor. As for pain, the thing is that it is mostly in
the body, and actually usually a far lower level thing than people imagine.
When you start to think about pain the whole thing can escalate out of
control. When you’re grounded in the body, it’s really not so much.
Nick
On 12/18/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Matthew,
Yes, I lost consciousness for a good 24 hours and then had no
recollection
of who I was for another 5 odd days, as I recall. About the “surrender”
aspects, my feeling is that there is a difference between the
experience of
consciously surrendering to an experience and just taking so
much of a drug
that your whole ego perspective is blown away for a while. This is why I
like the much lower doses these days. 1g or less rootbark is
fine for me!
The only good thing that I could personally say of the massive,
initiatory
doses is that they allow you to experience iboga on very low doses
afterwards, which I think is as much the purpose of initiation
as anything
else.
About the “greed” thing, as I recall, for me it was more comical than
anything else really. People in the Cameroun are not rich and
the chance to
rifle some westerner’s belongings is just too much to resist.
It also didn’t
mean that I wasn’t in a loving, caring environment, merely that
there was a
little tax to pay. For me, it was OK. I don’t recall feeling
threatened at
any time during the experience.
About greed being out of character with iboga, I can’t really
go with that
one. For me, the drug has always worked by bringing unconscious
dynamics up
into the conscious mind so that they can be examined. Thus, to me, it’s
nature is to bring up conflict. The work of making a conscious choice to
change has to go on after the iboga has left the body. This is why I’ve
always maintained that it’s largely meaningless to take
ibogaine out of a
therapeutic environment. And why I rail against the attempts of
some iboga
types to always try and make everything nice by talking it nicely, thus
repressing all the conflicts back down again. And why I’m fine with the
frequent conflicts that occur on this discussion group. Naked
greed, it’s
cool! At least it’s out in the open and you know where you are.
Better than
some sanctimonious meditative environment created by
repression. That’s my
take anyway.
About change and surrender, well, I guess it always happens when we’re
ready. Very hard to speed the process up because ultimately there is no
“process.” That it’s a process is just how the mind is
interpreting it. It’s
not existentially real, it’s just interpretation. And this
whole “need to
surrender” thing can just be another manifestation of
unconscious conflict,
another dynamic created by the psyche and by which we can
batter ourselves
into believing we’re really not doing enough, just not good
enough. Maybe
surrender to not surrendering!
I’ll stop lecturing now! [for a while]
Love
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 18:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hello
Nick, I seem to recall when you first posted about that
experience years ago
that it sort of overwhelmed you to the point of loss of
consciousness; for a
couple days I think you said.  I wonder if maybe you went so
far passed the
“necessary to surrender” dose that you missed it, so to speak.
On a completely side note it has bothered me to this very day that the
native people you dealt with in Cameroon displayed such greed.  It just
seems so out of character with the lessons of iboga to me.
At any rate, back to your point, I agree that the relationship
between dose
and surrender quotient are not absolute or direct.  But
speaking for myself,
I am the type who holds on to stuff so tightly that I can’t let
go.  Even
knowing intellectually that there is a release and peace on the
other side
of surrender makes it no easier for me to accomplish most of
the time.  So
for people like me, it is usually necessary for the pain of
remaining the
same to become greater than the pain of change in order to
accomplish the
change.
Matt
________________________________
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:17 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Matt and Bruce,
Interesting thread. Personally, I’m not so sure that dose and surrender
quotient (!) are necessarily so related. I’ve taken a massive
dose of iboga
years ago in Africa but I don’t consider it a particularly
transformational
experience, as much as one can assess these things. I had a far stronger
experience of just letting go and being with what is from a
relatively mild
dose. I think it’s difficult to pin down the experience of surrender to
causes or factors. It just happens sometimes and I guess there actually
isn’t anyone who can consciously create it anyway. I love what you write
below about the experience, Matt.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual
angle for
you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that
ibogaine offers
is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of
illusionary control
and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our
minds to think
that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human,
to be alive,
to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary
nature of
our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.
What a sham
we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind
rebels, resists,
begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.
Usually quite a
lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the
fight and give it
up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and
suddenly all
our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace
and serenity.
We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if
necessary.  What
if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just
engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of
uncomfortability.
Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to
think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit
approval to take gargantuan doses.
________________________________
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the
manahattan type
scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who
know what I
went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have
normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to
imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience
with believers
is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they
ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage.
Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in
the forum and
in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I
will follow up
with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
Date: December 19, 2005 at 2:08:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Oh great thanks Ron, the one email I would have loved to see just disappear into the cosmos FOREVER and you have to dredge it up again!!!
KEEP UP MAN LOL.  PLEASEEEEEE
That was start of NOVEMBERRRRRRRRRRRRR
It’s way gone now the meaning lost forever…..
Furrget about itttttttttttttt
Have a good tinsel madness season.
Kirk ;oP
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 4:11 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
HUH? KOKO
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
I didn’t mean that……. Lol I gotta stop replying without thinking. See Ron?? Brain matter melting!! lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
God you’re thick MARK lol figure it out already!!!
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
stop sending messages

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare 
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as 
noted, really lazy.

Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.

2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet

3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one 
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as 
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))

4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again 
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I 
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there 
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but 
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for 
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story 
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first 
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys 
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that 
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in 
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I 
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at 
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings 
currently.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s 
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause 
I thought I was in it.

6. What is your eye color: Hazel

7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)

8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs 
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts 
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts 
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.

9.Ever been to Africa: No

10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s 
tp’ering.

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how 
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left 
it alone, as with one or two others too.)

12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.

13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they 
usually are in restaurants.

14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of 
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)

15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near 
Washington Square park.

16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.

17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although 
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near 
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate 
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I 
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. 
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in 
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers 
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter 
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event 
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by 
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the 
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and 
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in 
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see 
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to 
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).

18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.

19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s 
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, 
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though 
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I 
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I 
hate, so it’s a tie.

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really 
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare 
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the 
”bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still 
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued 
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best 
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat 
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because 
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet 
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total 
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug 
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as 
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower 
East side apartment like ours.

23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only 
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost 
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the 
form of a post to the ibogaine list.

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit 
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I 
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it 
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just 
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. 
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not 
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I 
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, 
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on 
their hands.

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who 
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to 
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.

30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, 
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), 
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about 
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever 
made, in my own humble opinion of course.

31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine 
years as of Halloween.

32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford 
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature 
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand 
others I guess.

33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just 
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises 
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V 
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the 
wood floor? Lots of different things.

34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.

35. How many tattoos do you have: 5

36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I 
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc. 



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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 19, 2005 at 12:54:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I won’t let “debate” upset me, but I need to follow your argument better.  Many folk from all cultures could be good doctors.  We do need a more democratic government, with a big “D” and a small “d.”  Time to let government “serve” the people, not just abet capitalism.  Education, health care and anti-racism are worthy goals for government, areas in which competition is not the highest goal.  You can’t “run” people like you do a National Athletic Franchise.  Republicans consider govern-ment is there to stimulate the economy only……build and sell armaments, manufac-ture trinkets, import cheap clothing and more trinkets, feed us corn syrup, and keep us flying and buying for recreation.  I never did prescribe “Vioxx,” never did trust an “anti-inflammatory,” inflamation being the major process for natural healing.  In part, PAIN is useful to teach us our human limits; rest, sleep and repair, not “try, try again.”  Dr. Ed
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
Date: December 19, 2005 at 10:10:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HUH? KOKO
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
I didn’t mean that……. Lol I gotta stop replying without thinking. See Ron?? Brain matter melting!! lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
God you’re thick MARK lol figure it out already!!!
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
stop sending messages

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare 
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as 
noted, really lazy.

Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.

2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet

3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one 
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as 
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))

4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again 
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I 
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there 
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but 
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for 
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story 
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first 
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys 
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that 
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in 
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I 
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at 
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings 
currently.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s 
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause 
I thought I was in it.

6. What is your eye color: Hazel

7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)

8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs 
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts 
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts 
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.

9.Ever been to Africa: No

10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s 
tp’ering.

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how 
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left 
it alone, as with one or two others too.)

12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.

13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they 
usually are in restaurants.

14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of 
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)

15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near 
Washington Square park.

16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.

17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although 
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near 
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate 
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I 
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. 
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in 
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers 
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter 
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event 
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by 
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the 
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and 
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in 
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see 
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to 
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).

18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.

19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s 
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, 
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though 
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I 
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I 
hate, so it’s a tie.

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really 
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare 
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the 
”bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still 
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued 
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best 
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat 
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because 
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet 
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total 
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug 
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as 
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower 
East side apartment like ours.

23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only 
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost 
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the 
form of a post to the ibogaine list.

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit 
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I 
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it 
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just 
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. 
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not 
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I 
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, 
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on 
their hands.

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who 
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to 
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.

30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, 
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), 
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about 
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever 
made, in my own humble opinion of course.

31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine 
years as of Halloween.

32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford 
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature 
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand 
others I guess.

33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just 
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises 
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V 
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the 
wood floor? Lots of different things.

34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.

35. How many tattoos do you have: 5

36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I 
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc. 



/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 19, 2005 at 7:53:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
František Hrdý wrote:
I’ve few more unanswered questions; feel free to answer if you know it:
1. Is Ibogaine treatment only one known method to get rid of withdrawals and cravings?
Depends exactly what you mean. If you’re careful switching someone over from heroin to methadone or buprenorphine, it can be done in a way so that the patient expereiences minimal withdrawal. the success of this varies somewhat though. and it’s a semantic thing, i would say that doing this doesnt get rid of withdrawals, it just sort of circumvents them… because the person is never withdrawn from opiates. they’re just switched from short acting to long acting ones.
2. Do you think it is possible to make official statistic of treatments and successes?
people like Howard are trying very hard to assess those sorts of things, but it can be challenging… i mean we’re talkinga bout an illegal drug here, not everyone who’s taken it is gonna wanna be full and upront about their experiences.
3. What are statements of official government supported drug addiction treating centers considering Ibogaine?
Most don’t acknowledge it to begin with.
4. Is it possible to say what dosage of Ibogaine is lethal (research on animals)?
Yes. In the rat, the LD50 (the dose at which half the subjects die) was shown to be 145 mg/kg when administered intraperitoneally, but 327 mg/kg when administered intragastrically (Popick and Skolnik, 1999)
5. Can anyone explain exactly how Ibogaine cleans the body? Does it restore original setting of neurotransmitters? How does it fit to this explanation: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/closetohome/science/html/animations.html?
As far as I know, there isn’t any reserach on ibogaine cleaning the body . I mean, the  whole throwing up thing is often taken as a symbolic cleaning ritual, but strictly speaking, it’s just throwing up. Whether ibogaine actually restores original settins of neurotransmitters is probably unknown at this point, but we can definatly say that it realigns them in some way.
The way it affects the dopamine system probably plays a large role in the reduction of cravings seen in users of all sorts of drugs treated with ibogaine. Pretty much all drugs of abuse affect dopamine, either directly in the case of coke and amphetamines, or indiretly in drugs like alcohol and pot. and it’s the effects that drugs have on the dopamine system that are probably responsible for their reinforcing effects.
whether ibogaine puts the dopamine system back in its original state or whether it just shakes it up a bit, we don’t really know yet. but whatever it’s doing there, particularly at an area of the brain called the nuclues accumbens, is probably a big part of how it reduces cravings.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 19, 2005 at 7:14:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’ve few more unanswered questions; feel free to answer if you know it:
1. Is Ibogaine treatment only one known method to get rid of withdrawals and cravings?
2. Do you think it is possible to make official statistic of treatments and successes?
3. What are statements of official government supported drug addiction treating centers considering Ibogaine?
4. Is it possible to say what dosage of Ibogaine is lethal (research on animals)?
5. Can anyone explain exactly how Ibogaine cleans the body? Does it restore original setting of neurotransmitters? How does it fit to this explanation: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/closetohome/science/html/animations.html?
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 19, 2005 at 6:32:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Luke Christoffersen [mailto:luke.christoffersen@gmail.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 23:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Nick,
         I read your experience too.  It must be very hard on the
body to be gone for 6 days.  I thought you’d die from that much iboga.
        From my experience I find I get a greater release of material
the higher doses, not as high as yours though :).  I agree that you
can get results on lower doses after a being broken open by a few high
doses.  I think your ability to surrender depends on what kind of
material is trying to surface and where you are in the healing.  Some
things are just too painfull for the mind to face willingly.
Luke
Hi Luke,
Yes, you are right that the dosing thing is different if you’ve done an
initiatory level dose sometime in your life. You no longer need to work at
high doses because, as you say, the mind has already been broken open. Would
be good to hear what Bwiti guys think about all this.
About surrender, I think there’s also another factor to be looked at, in
that fear tends to escalate as dose is increased. Thus, again, I don’t think
it’s as simple as increasing dosage to move towards greater surrender.
Generally, I don’t think there’s so much that can be done with the iboga to
increase this surrender thing. That you trust the people and place you’re at
is obviously a big factor. As for pain, the thing is that it is mostly in
the body, and actually usually a far lower level thing than people imagine.
When you start to think about pain the whole thing can escalate out of
control. When you’re grounded in the body, it’s really not so much.
Nick
On 12/18/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Matthew,
Yes, I lost consciousness for a good 24 hours and then had no
recollection
of who I was for another 5 odd days, as I recall. About the “surrender”
aspects, my feeling is that there is a difference between the
experience of
consciously surrendering to an experience and just taking so
much of a drug
that your whole ego perspective is blown away for a while. This is why I
like the much lower doses these days. 1g or less rootbark is
fine for me!
The only good thing that I could personally say of the massive,
initiatory
doses is that they allow you to experience iboga on very low doses
afterwards, which I think is as much the purpose of initiation
as anything
else.
About the “greed” thing, as I recall, for me it was more comical than
anything else really. People in the Cameroun are not rich and
the chance to
rifle some westerner’s belongings is just too much to resist.
It also didn’t
mean that I wasn’t in a loving, caring environment, merely that
there was a
little tax to pay. For me, it was OK. I don’t recall feeling
threatened at
any time during the experience.
About greed being out of character with iboga, I can’t really
go with that
one. For me, the drug has always worked by bringing unconscious
dynamics up
into the conscious mind so that they can be examined. Thus, to me, it’s
nature is to bring up conflict. The work of making a conscious choice to
change has to go on after the iboga has left the body. This is why I’ve
always maintained that it’s largely meaningless to take
ibogaine out of a
therapeutic environment. And why I rail against the attempts of
some iboga
types to always try and make everything nice by talking it nicely, thus
repressing all the conflicts back down again. And why I’m fine with the
frequent conflicts that occur on this discussion group. Naked
greed, it’s
cool! At least it’s out in the open and you know where you are.
Better than
some sanctimonious meditative environment created by
repression. That’s my
take anyway.
About change and surrender, well, I guess it always happens when we’re
ready. Very hard to speed the process up because ultimately there is no
“process.” That it’s a process is just how the mind is
interpreting it. It’s
not existentially real, it’s just interpretation. And this
whole “need to
surrender” thing can just be another manifestation of
unconscious conflict,
another dynamic created by the psyche and by which we can
batter ourselves
into believing we’re really not doing enough, just not good
enough. Maybe
surrender to not surrendering!
I’ll stop lecturing now! [for a while]
Love
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 18:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hello
Nick, I seem to recall when you first posted about that
experience years ago
that it sort of overwhelmed you to the point of loss of
consciousness; for a
couple days I think you said.  I wonder if maybe you went so
far passed the
“necessary to surrender” dose that you missed it, so to speak.
On a completely side note it has bothered me to this very day that the
native people you dealt with in Cameroon displayed such greed.  It just
seems so out of character with the lessons of iboga to me.
At any rate, back to your point, I agree that the relationship
between dose
and surrender quotient are not absolute or direct.  But
speaking for myself,
I am the type who holds on to stuff so tightly that I can’t let
go.  Even
knowing intellectually that there is a release and peace on the
other side
of surrender makes it no easier for me to accomplish most of
the time.  So
for people like me, it is usually necessary for the pain of
remaining the
same to become greater than the pain of change in order to
accomplish the
change.
Matt
________________________________
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:17 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Matt and Bruce,
Interesting thread. Personally, I’m not so sure that dose and surrender
quotient (!) are necessarily so related. I’ve taken a massive
dose of iboga
years ago in Africa but I don’t consider it a particularly
transformational
experience, as much as one can assess these things. I had a far stronger
experience of just letting go and being with what is from a
relatively mild
dose. I think it’s difficult to pin down the experience of surrender to
causes or factors. It just happens sometimes and I guess there actually
isn’t anyone who can consciously create it anyway. I love what you write
below about the experience, Matt.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual
angle for
you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that
ibogaine offers
is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of
illusionary control
and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our
minds to think
that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human,
to be alive,
to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary
nature of
our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.
What a sham
we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind
rebels, resists,
begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.
Usually quite a
lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the
fight and give it
up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and
suddenly all
our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace
and serenity.
We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if
necessary.  What
if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just
engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of
uncomfortability.
Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to
think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit
approval to take gargantuan doses.
________________________________
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the
manahattan type
scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who
know what I
went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have
normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to
imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience
with believers
is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they
ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage.
Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in
the forum and
in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I
will follow up
with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 19, 2005 at 5:26:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you, this is answer to one of my questions I didn’t know how to put.
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 18, 2005 at 6:11:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Nick,
         I read your experience too.  It must be very hard on the
body to be gone for 6 days.  I thought you’d die from that much iboga.
        From my experience I find I get a greater release of material
the higher doses, not as high as yours though :).  I agree that you
can get results on lower doses after a being broken open by a few high
doses.  I think your ability to surrender depends on what kind of
material is trying to surface and where you are in the healing.  Some
things are just too painfull for the mind to face willingly.
Luke
On 12/18/05, Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Matthew,
Yes, I lost consciousness for a good 24 hours and then had no recollection
of who I was for another 5 odd days, as I recall. About the “surrender”
aspects, my feeling is that there is a difference between the experience of
consciously surrendering to an experience and just taking so much of a drug
that your whole ego perspective is blown away for a while. This is why I
like the much lower doses these days. 1g or less rootbark is fine for me!
The only good thing that I could personally say of the massive, initiatory
doses is that they allow you to experience iboga on very low doses
afterwards, which I think is as much the purpose of initiation as anything
else.
About the “greed” thing, as I recall, for me it was more comical than
anything else really. People in the Cameroun are not rich and the chance to
rifle some westerner’s belongings is just too much to resist. It also didn’t
mean that I wasn’t in a loving, caring environment, merely that there was a
little tax to pay. For me, it was OK. I don’t recall feeling threatened at
any time during the experience.
About greed being out of character with iboga, I can’t really go with that
one. For me, the drug has always worked by bringing unconscious dynamics up
into the conscious mind so that they can be examined. Thus, to me, it’s
nature is to bring up conflict. The work of making a conscious choice to
change has to go on after the iboga has left the body. This is why I’ve
always maintained that it’s largely meaningless to take ibogaine out of a
therapeutic environment. And why I rail against the attempts of some iboga
types to always try and make everything nice by talking it nicely, thus
repressing all the conflicts back down again. And why I’m fine with the
frequent conflicts that occur on this discussion group. Naked greed, it’s
cool! At least it’s out in the open and you know where you are. Better than
some sanctimonious meditative environment created by repression. That’s my
take anyway.
About change and surrender, well, I guess it always happens when we’re
ready. Very hard to speed the process up because ultimately there is no
“process.” That it’s a process is just how the mind is interpreting it. It’s
not existentially real, it’s just interpretation. And this whole “need to
surrender” thing can just be another manifestation of unconscious conflict,
another dynamic created by the psyche and by which we can batter ourselves
into believing we’re really not doing enough, just not good enough. Maybe
surrender to not surrendering!
I’ll stop lecturing now! [for a while]
Love
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 18:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hello
Nick, I seem to recall when you first posted about that experience years ago
that it sort of overwhelmed you to the point of loss of consciousness; for a
couple days I think you said.  I wonder if maybe you went so far passed the
“necessary to surrender” dose that you missed it, so to speak.
On a completely side note it has bothered me to this very day that the
native people you dealt with in Cameroon displayed such greed.  It just
seems so out of character with the lessons of iboga to me.
At any rate, back to your point, I agree that the relationship between dose
and surrender quotient are not absolute or direct.  But speaking for myself,
I am the type who holds on to stuff so tightly that I can’t let go.  Even
knowing intellectually that there is a release and peace on the other side
of surrender makes it no easier for me to accomplish most of the time.  So
for people like me, it is usually necessary for the pain of remaining the
same to become greater than the pain of change in order to accomplish the
change.
Matt
________________________________
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:17 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Matt and Bruce,
Interesting thread. Personally, I’m not so sure that dose and surrender
quotient (!) are necessarily so related. I’ve taken a massive dose of iboga
years ago in Africa but I don’t consider it a particularly transformational
experience, as much as one can assess these things. I had a far stronger
experience of just letting go and being with what is from a relatively mild
dose. I think it’s difficult to pin down the experience of surrender to
causes or factors. It just happens sometimes and I guess there actually
isn’t anyone who can consciously create it anyway. I love what you write
below about the experience, Matt.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for
you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers
is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control
and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think
that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive,
to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of
our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham
we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists,
begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a
lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it
up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all
our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.
We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What
if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just
engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.
Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit
approval to take gargantuan doses.
________________________________
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type
scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I
went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have
normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to
imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers
is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they
ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage.
Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and
in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up
with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 18, 2005 at 4:17:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 07:49 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Charles,
Too bad you could not have gotten an exact medical diagnosis of the symptoms exhibited by the patients.  What drugs were the patients being treated for?
[Charles Rossouw] Both Heroin Did they have a background of seizure or other disorders?[Charles Rossouw]  No 1 had a history of epilepsy, no 2 not, both no other disorders   Was there anything similar in the medical history of the two patients that would allow you to anticipate they would have similar reactions.[Charles Rossouw] No
How much ibogaine had the patients taken at the time these symptoms appeared?[Charles Rossouw]  Both 15mg/kg
If these effects happen again see if you can have a doctor come in and diagnose the condition or have you already discussed these responses with a medical doctor?[Charles Rossouw] No.  I’ve disvussed them with a medical doctor, but he suggested Tegretol CR 400mg, which is also a slow acting drug.  His experience with Herion stems from work in Prison hospitals and a psichiatric hostpital.
Also, I am reading your message correctly that the patient had a script for morphine and cocaine?[Charles Rossouw] No – this was just to illustrate how highly scheduled (and thus potent) this Flunitrazepam is.  We call it the date rape drug.
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:46:31 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi Howard
I gave 2mg Rivotril PO and 10mg Diazepam IM, followed by 200mg (Patient weighs 50kg) Ibogaine HCL about 30 minutes later.  The spasms subsided and she became calm within 4 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril, but I waited a half hour to see that she stayed calm and all vital functions stayed normal before the Ibogaine.  About 9 hours after this, and after sleeping for about 4 hours, she started with spasms again, but not nearly as intense as the first time, so I waited it out for an hour and gave her another 200mg Ibogaine, which seemed to work quite fast (about 12 minutes).  Thereafter she was fine, except for the obvious sleeplessness over the next 3 days, for which even Flunitrazepam did not work. (This is in the same schedule as Morphine and Cocaine in South Africa, and she had a script from a while ago when she out of control and suicidal).
The second patient fell asleep after about 15 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril and I did not give more Ibogaine until she woke up, which was a few hours later.  No extra measures were necessary.
Regards
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 12:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Charles,
So what did you do to treat the symptoms shown by the patients below?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/17/05 8:25:24 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please: #2
Date: December 18, 2005 at 2:19:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My reading is that the prescriptions would have been for Rivotril
and Diazepam.
Is there any chance these symptoms were caused by a byproduct of
the ibogaine extraction? I.e. since we have apparently unusual
symptoms in two patients of the same provider, did the ibogaine
come from a different source or batch than that used by other
providers who might have reported here?
On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 10:18:15 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Charles,
Did you determine what withdrawal signs the patients had had on
previous
attempts at withdrawal?   If you can also take a history and get
background from a
significant other or another observer rather than the patient it
is usually
helpful.   We all forget so many things when asked for a medical
background.
The symptoms you saw may have been common to the patient(s) in
previous
withdrawal attempts.   I always find it useful to ask what
withdrawal signs the
patient usually exhibits.
Howard
In a message dated 12/18/05 12:49:53 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
Hi Charles,
Too bad you could not have gotten an exact medical diagnosis of
the symptoms
exhibited by the patients.  What drugs were the patients being
treated for?
Did they have a background of seizure or other disorders?  Was
there
anything similar in the medical history of the two patients that
would allow you to
anticipate they would have similar reactions.
How much ibogaine had the patients taken at the time these
symptoms
appeared?
If these effects happen again see if you can have a doctor come
in and
diagnose the condition or have you already discussed these
responses with a
medical doctor?
Also, I am reading your message correctly that the patient had a
script for
morphine and cocaine?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:46:31 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi Howard
I gave 2mg Rivotril PO and 10mg Diazepam IM, followed by 200mg
(Patient
weighs 50kg) Ibogaine HCL about 30 minutes later.  The spasms
subsided and she
became calm within 4 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril,
but I waited a
half hour to see that she stayed calm and all vital functions
stayed normal
before the Ibogaine.  About 9 hours after this, and after
sleeping for about 4
hours, she started with spasms again, but not nearly as intense
as the first
time, so I waited it out for an hour and gave her another 200mg
Ibogaine,
which seemed to work quite fast (about 12 minutes).  Thereafter
she was fine,
except for the obvious sleeplessness over the next 3 days, for
which even
Flunitrazepam did not work. (This is in the same schedule as
Morphine and Cocaine
in South Africa, and she had a script from a while ago when she
out of control
and suicidal).
The second patient fell asleep after about 15 minutes after the
Diazepam and
Rivotril and I did not give more Ibogaine until she woke up,
which was a few
hours later.  No extra measures were necessary.
Regards
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 12:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Charles,
So what did you do to treat the symptoms shown by the patients
below?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/17/05 8:25:24 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long
after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26
hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-
lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If
not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit
on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious
as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very
quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not
fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as
negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly
briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby,
especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the
appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to
treat these
conditions.
Charles
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please: #2
Date: December 18, 2005 at 1:18:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Charles,
Did you determine what withdrawal signs the patients had had on previous attempts at withdrawal?  If you can also take a history and get background from a significant other or another observer rather than the patient it is usually helpful.  We all forget so many things when asked for a medical background.   The symptoms you saw may have been common to the patient(s) in previous withdrawal attempts.  I always find it useful to ask what withdrawal signs the patient usually exhibits.
Howard
In a message dated 12/18/05 12:49:53 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
Hi Charles,
Too bad you could not have gotten an exact medical diagnosis of the symptoms exhibited by the patients.  What drugs were the patients being treated for?  Did they have a background of seizure or other disorders?  Was there anything similar in the medical history of the two patients that would allow you to anticipate they would have similar reactions.
How much ibogaine had the patients taken at the time these symptoms appeared?
If these effects happen again see if you can have a doctor come in and diagnose the condition or have you already discussed these responses with a medical doctor?
Also, I am reading your message correctly that the patient had a script for morphine and cocaine?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:46:31 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi Howard
I gave 2mg Rivotril PO and 10mg Diazepam IM, followed by 200mg (Patient weighs 50kg) Ibogaine HCL about 30 minutes later.  The spasms subsided and she became calm within 4 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril, but I waited a half hour to see that she stayed calm and all vital functions stayed normal before the Ibogaine.  About 9 hours after this, and after sleeping for about 4 hours, she started with spasms again, but not nearly as intense as the first time, so I waited it out for an hour and gave her another 200mg Ibogaine, which seemed to work quite fast (about 12 minutes).  Thereafter she was fine, except for the obvious sleeplessness over the next 3 days, for which even Flunitrazepam did not work. (This is in the same schedule as Morphine and Cocaine in South Africa, and she had a script from a while ago when she out of control and suicidal).
The second patient fell asleep after about 15 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril and I did not give more Ibogaine until she woke up, which was a few hours later.  No extra measures were necessary.
Regards
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 12:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Charles,
So what did you do to treat the symptoms shown by the patients below?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/17/05 8:25:24 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 18, 2005 at 12:49:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Charles,
Too bad you could not have gotten an exact medical diagnosis of the symptoms exhibited by the patients.  What drugs were the patients being treated for?  Did they have a background of seizure or other disorders?  Was there anything similar in the medical history of the two patients that would allow you to anticipate they would have similar reactions.
How much ibogaine had the patients taken at the time these symptoms appeared?
If these effects happen again see if you can have a doctor come in and diagnose the condition or have you already discussed these responses with a medical doctor?
Also, I am reading your message correctly that the patient had a script for morphine and cocaine?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/18/05 4:46:31 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi Howard
I gave 2mg Rivotril PO and 10mg Diazepam IM, followed by 200mg (Patient weighs 50kg) Ibogaine HCL about 30 minutes later.  The spasms subsided and she became calm within 4 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril, but I waited a half hour to see that she stayed calm and all vital functions stayed normal before the Ibogaine.  About 9 hours after this, and after sleeping for about 4 hours, she started with spasms again, but not nearly as intense as the first time, so I waited it out for an hour and gave her another 200mg Ibogaine, which seemed to work quite fast (about 12 minutes).  Thereafter she was fine, except for the obvious sleeplessness over the next 3 days, for which even Flunitrazepam did not work. (This is in the same schedule as Morphine and Cocaine in South Africa, and she had a script from a while ago when she out of control and suicidal).
The second patient fell asleep after about 15 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril and I did not give more Ibogaine until she woke up, which was a few hours later.  No extra measures were necessary.
Regards
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 12:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Charles,
So what did you do to treat the symptoms shown by the patients below?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/17/05 8:25:24 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 18, 2005 at 12:34:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matthew,
Yes, I lost consciousness for a good 24 hours and then had no recollection of who I was for another 5 odd days, as I recall. About the “surrender” aspects, my feeling is that there is a difference between the experience of consciously surrendering to an experience and just taking so much of a drug that your whole ego perspective is blown away for a while. This is why I like the much lower doses these days. 1g or less rootbark is fine for me! The only good thing that I could personally say of the massive, initiatory doses is that they allow you to experience iboga on very low doses afterwards, which I think is as much the purpose of initiation as anything else.
About the “greed” thing, as I recall, for me it was more comical than anything else really. People in the Cameroun are not rich and the chance to rifle some westerner’s belongings is just too much to resist. It also didn’t mean that I wasn’t in a loving, caring environment, merely that there was a little tax to pay. For me, it was OK. I don’t recall feeling threatened at any time during the experience.
About greed being out of character with iboga, I can’t really go with that one. For me, the drug has always worked by bringing unconscious dynamics up into the conscious mind so that they can be examined. Thus, to me, it’s nature is to bring up conflict. The work of making a conscious choice to change has to go on after the iboga has left the body. This is why I’ve always maintained that it’s largely meaningless to take ibogaine out of a therapeutic environment. And why I rail against the attempts of some iboga types to always try and make everything nice by talking it nicely, thus repressing all the conflicts back down again. And why I’m fine with the frequent conflicts that occur on this discussion group. Naked greed, it’s cool! At least it’s out in the open and you know where you are. Better than some sanctimonious meditative environment created by repression. That’s my take anyway.
About change and surrender, well, I guess it always happens when we’re ready. Very hard to speed the process up because ultimately there is no “process.” That it’s a process is just how the mind is interpreting it. It’s not existentially real, it’s just interpretation. And this whole “need to surrender” thing can just be another manifestation of unconscious conflict, another dynamic created by the psyche and by which we can batter ourselves into believing we’re really not doing enough, just not good enough. Maybe surrender to not surrendering!
I’ll stop lecturing now! [for a while]
Love
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 18:10
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hello
Nick, I seem to recall when you first posted about that experience years ago that it sort of overwhelmed you to the point of loss of consciousness; for a couple days I think you said.  I wonder if maybe you went so far passed the “necessary to surrender” dose that you missed it, so to speak.
On a completely side note it has bothered me to this very day that the native people you dealt with in Cameroon displayed such greed.  It just seems so out of character with the lessons of iboga to me.
At any rate, back to your point, I agree that the relationship between dose and surrender quotient are not absolute or direct.  But speaking for myself, I am the type who holds on to stuff so tightly that I can’t let go.  Even knowing intellectually that there is a release and peace on the other side of surrender makes it no easier for me to accomplish most of the time.  So for people like me, it is usually necessary for the pain of remaining the same to become greater than the pain of change in order to accomplish the change.
Matt
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk] 
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:17 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Matt and Bruce,
Interesting thread. Personally, I’m not so sure that dose and surrender quotient (!) are necessarily so related. I’ve taken a massive dose of iboga years ago in Africa but I don’t consider it a particularly transformational experience, as much as one can assess these things. I had a far stronger experience of just letting go and being with what is from a relatively mild dose. I think it’s difficult to pin down the experience of surrender to causes or factors. It just happens sometimes and I guess there actually isn’t anyone who can consciously create it anyway. I love what you write below about the experience, Matt.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive, to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists, begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.  We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.  Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit approval to take gargantuan doses.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 18, 2005 at 5:31:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
That analogy sounds good, but it’s totally inaccurate applied to the medical arena and shows that you don’t know very much about how the law works as applied to medical practice.
As I said before, the reason the Vioxx suits fly is because Merck and Co., the people who make Vioxx, LIED about the risks. They obfuscated data that showed greater risks than they made public. That is the ONLY reason people can sue (and win). It has ONLY to do with the LYING and has NOTHING to do with the death.
For example, if you were to go in for a bypass surgery, or nearly any surgery that uses general anaesthetic for that matter, you must sign a piece of paper that says that you understand that a possible consequence of the operation is death. If the operation kills you (and not due to gross negligence on the part of the medical personell), there are NO GROUNDS FOR A LAWSUIT. If you refuse to waive your right to sue under such circumstances, NO ONE WILL OPERATE ON YOU.
The same could easily be applied to the use of ibogaine, if it was ever made a legal medical procedure. All the makers and/or providers of ibogaine would have to do would be to list death as a possible risk AND THERE WOULD BE NO LEGAL GROUNDS TO SUE THEM. Period.
Note, this only applies to the United States. I don’t know what the laws are in other countries.
Merck and Co. DESERVE to have the crap sued out of them, not because their drug killed some people, but because THEY LIED ABOUT IT.
Jon, sign a waiver that you are sure that bullets are not lethal, and that you indemnify me from any claim arising from bullet wounds inflicted by me. If I smoke you, is the waiver valid? No.
If I sell you a bulletproof vest and advertise a 90% probability of stopping a .357 magnum and you fall into the 10%, your wife gets 3000% of my earnings. Forget that I saved lives, or tried, or invested, or paid employees that fed their families..
Vioxx was a pain reliever. People ate up with arthritis died. Without pain. Big news, they were gonna die anyways. We all are. Robert Ernst was 59, not 24. Gee, SOMEBODY owes me a quarter of a billion dollars because I didn’t get to wipe poop off of him when he was 85. Dying at 59, eh, not so uncommon, do ya get the newspaper? Less risk? The dude was 59 and his bones were crumbling, he was in pain, and those that sought to help him are now being crucified.
You guys would sue the importing shipping company that brought Ibo here for one death and deny anybody else the right to use it if you found a pocket deep enough for grabbing.
Get your head outta your ass
Now, That was lively!
Whoo, cheep beer, good friends, and politics, does life get any better?
Bee
PS, I’m trying to develop my writing skills, if you have any interest or comments other than to shut the hell up, mail me off list. Thanx
jon wrote:
Eh, I dunno… lots of medical procedures are high risk. That’s what waiver forms are for.
As long as the providers are honest about the risk and get the patient’s signature, they can’t get in any trouble.
The problem with vioxx was that they covered up the risk, pretended that it had a lot less risk than it really does.
Awww, Ed, COME ON,
The panacea is nice, but let’s get real here. The root of the web is the tremendous liability awards involved, and the idea that they don’t “Cost” anything to unaffected parties.
BUT, let’s look at your idea.
1. What kind of Doctors are you expecting from a “Free” education? Are you advocating that anybody can be a Dr., and the brightest minds are simply scattered around the populace?
2. Would you waive your right to sue? I mean, if you try to stuff a turnip into a raisin and it doesn’t take, it doesn’t matter as long as the raisin is compassionate, right?
3. You want this overseen, regulated and dispensed by WHOM? The same government that:
    A. promotes the unlimited liability claims
    B. considers “Equality” to be wealth redistribution
   C. refuses to recognize God, yet expects mortal men to be infallible or else remove from them the money that THEY PRINTED on a promise of ownership.
   D. outlawed Ibogaine to begin with.
The MAJOR problem with Ibogaine is that capitalism is NOT involved. If Merck or Pfizer would just simply synthesize the compound, it would sweep the country. BUT WHY DO IT? 253 million awarded to ONE WOMAN (Vioxx) with 4200 cases pending!! Merck has set aside $675 million to fight them. Whatever happened to “God called him home, at least his pain was relieved”? The CEO of Merck could have driven his car into the man’s living room through his front door, jumped out and blown his face off with a shotgun, and the jury would have been more sympathetic. Why do ANYTHING with a 0.5% risk factor? And CURE? Promote a CURE? Whaddaya think they are, IDIOTS?? If GOD himself came down and cured hunger, McDonalds would sue Him and win.
Muse on that. And set your Email to respond inline. I have to dig through my trash to figger out what you are responding to by subject line.
I have the highest respect for you, I appreciate your work and contributions to the list, and I hope that a good debate won’t upset you too much.
Don
          Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
All the more reason that Ibogaine should be an “overground” herb/treatment, given liberally, but sensibly with compassionate/sophisticated dispensers, not “commercial” ones.  Maybe this is where National Health can provide, even here in the USA.  It may depend upon getting the “profit” motive out of health care, which our present government seems not the least interested in, but to my way of thinking, is the answer.  The practice of medicine can be satisfying enough, you don’t really need a mammouth income for life long satisfaction.  But we have been indoctrinated that DOCTORS “deserve” lots of money.  What a mistake!  If their education could be made free, why not their income kept sensible and comfortable, but not extravagant?
I’m convinced that most doctors enter the field with idealism and an interest in people, but since they are not taught to “understand people,” they get discouraged and turn to money for their family.  Capitalism doesn’t help at this point.  Just musing. Dr. Ed
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From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 18, 2005 at 4:45:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Howard
I gave 2mg Rivotril PO and 10mg Diazepam IM, followed by 200mg (Patient weighs 50kg) Ibogaine HCL about 30 minutes later.  The spasms subsided and she became calm within 4 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril, but I waited a half hour to see that she stayed calm and all vital functions stayed normal before the Ibogaine.  About 9 hours after this, and after sleeping for about 4 hours, she started with spasms again, but not nearly as intense as the first time, so I waited it out for an hour and gave her another 200mg Ibogaine, which seemed to work quite fast (about 12 minutes).  Thereafter she was fine, except for the obvious sleeplessness over the next 3 days, for which even Flunitrazepam did not work. (This is in the same schedule as Morphine and Cocaine in South Africa, and she had a script from a while ago when she out of control and suicidal).
The second patient fell asleep after about 15 minutes after the Diazepam and Rivotril and I did not give more Ibogaine until she woke up, which was a few hours later.  No extra measures were necessary.
Regards
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 December 2005 12:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Charles,
So what did you do to treat the symptoms shown by the patients below?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/17/05 8:25:24 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 18, 2005 at 3:47:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Jon, sign a waiver that you are sure that bullets are not lethal, and that you indemnify me from any claim arising from bullet wounds inflicted by me. If I smoke you, is the waiver valid? No.
If I sell you a bulletproof vest and advertise a 90% probability of stopping a .357 magnum and you fall into the 10%, your wife gets 3000% of my earnings. Forget that I saved lives, or tried, or invested, or paid employees that fed their families..
Vioxx was a pain reliever. People ate up with arthritis died. Without pain. Big news, they were gonna die anyways. We all are. Robert Ernst was 59, not 24. Gee, SOMEBODY owes me a quarter of a billion dollars because I didn’t get to wipe poop off of him when he was 85. Dying at 59, eh, not so uncommon, do ya get the newspaper? Less risk? The dude was 59 and his bones were crumbling, he was in pain, and those that sought to help him are now being crucified.
You guys would sue the importing shipping company that brought Ibo here for one death and deny anybody else the right to use it if you found a pocket deep enough for grabbing.
Get your head outta your ass
Now, That was lively!
Whoo, cheep beer, good friends, and politics, does life get any better?
Bee
PS, I’m trying to develop my writing skills, if you have any interest or comments other than to shut the hell up, mail me off list. Thanx
jon wrote:
Eh, I dunno… lots of medical procedures are high risk. That’s what waiver forms are for.
As long as the providers are honest about the risk and get the patient’s signature, they can’t get in any trouble.
The problem with vioxx was that they covered up the risk, pretended that it had a lot less risk than it really does.
Awww, Ed, COME ON,
The panacea is nice, but let’s get real here. The root of the web is the tremendous liability awards involved, and the idea that they don’t “Cost” anything to unaffected parties.
BUT, let’s look at your idea.
1. What kind of Doctors are you expecting from a “Free” education? Are you advocating that anybody can be a Dr., and the brightest minds are simply scattered around the populace?
2. Would you waive your right to sue? I mean, if you try to stuff a turnip into a raisin and it doesn’t take, it doesn’t matter as long as the raisin is compassionate, right?
3. You want this overseen, regulated and dispensed by WHOM? The same government that:
    A. promotes the unlimited liability claims
    B. considers “Equality” to be wealth redistribution
   C. refuses to recognize God, yet expects mortal men to be infallible or else remove from them the money that THEY PRINTED on a promise of ownership.
   D. outlawed Ibogaine to begin with.
The MAJOR problem with Ibogaine is that capitalism is NOT involved. If Merck or Pfizer would just simply synthesize the compound, it would sweep the country. BUT WHY DO IT? 253 million awarded to ONE WOMAN (Vioxx) with 4200 cases pending!! Merck has set aside $675 million to fight them. Whatever happened to “God called him home, at least his pain was relieved”? The CEO of Merck could have driven his car into the man’s living room through his front door, jumped out and blown his face off with a shotgun, and the jury would have been more sympathetic. Why do ANYTHING with a 0.5% risk factor? And CURE? Promote a CURE? Whaddaya think they are, IDIOTS?? If GOD himself came down and cured hunger, McDonalds would sue Him and win.
Muse on that. And set your Email to respond inline. I have to dig through my trash to figger out what you are responding to by subject line.
I have the highest respect for you, I appreciate your work and contributions to the list, and I hope that a good debate won’t upset you too much.
Don
          Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
All the more reason that Ibogaine should be an “overground” herb/treatment, given liberally, but sensibly with compassionate/sophisticated dispensers, not “commercial” ones.  Maybe this is where National Health can provide, even here in the USA.  It may depend upon getting the “profit” motive out of health care, which our present government seems not the least interested in, but to my way of thinking, is the answer.  The practice of medicine can be satisfying enough, you don’t really need a mammouth income for life long satisfaction.  But we have been indoctrinated that DOCTORS “deserve” lots of money.  What a mistake!  If their education could be made free, why not their income kept sensible and comfortable, but not extravagant?
I’m convinced that most doctors enter the field with idealism and an interest in people, but since they are not taught to “understand people,” they get discouraged and turn to money for their family.  Capitalism doesn’t help at this point.  Just musing. Dr. Ed
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 18, 2005 at 2:33:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Eh, I dunno… lots of medical procedures are high risk. That’s what waiver forms are for.
As long as the providers are honest about the risk and get the patient’s signature, they can’t get in any trouble.
The problem with vioxx was that they covered up the risk, pretended that it had a lot less risk than it really does.
Awww, Ed, COME ON,
The panacea is nice, but let’s get real here. The root of the web is the tremendous liability awards involved, and the idea that they don’t “Cost” anything to unaffected parties.
BUT, let’s look at your idea.
1. What kind of Doctors are you expecting from a “Free” education? Are you advocating that anybody can be a Dr., and the brightest minds are simply scattered around the populace?
2. Would you waive your right to sue? I mean, if you try to stuff a turnip into a raisin and it doesn’t take, it doesn’t matter as long as the raisin is compassionate, right?
3. You want this overseen, regulated and dispensed by WHOM? The same government that:
    A. promotes the unlimited liability claims
    B. considers “Equality” to be wealth redistribution
   C. refuses to recognize God, yet expects mortal men to be infallible or else remove from them the money that THEY PRINTED on a promise of ownership.
   D. outlawed Ibogaine to begin with.
The MAJOR problem with Ibogaine is that capitalism is NOT involved. If Merck or Pfizer would just simply synthesize the compound, it would sweep the country. BUT WHY DO IT? 253 million awarded to ONE WOMAN (Vioxx) with 4200 cases pending!! Merck has set aside $675 million to fight them. Whatever happened to “God called him home, at least his pain was relieved”? The CEO of Merck could have driven his car into the man’s living room through his front door, jumped out and blown his face off with a shotgun, and the jury would have been more sympathetic. Why do ANYTHING with a 0.5% risk factor? And CURE? Promote a CURE? Whaddaya think they are, IDIOTS?? If GOD himself came down and cured hunger, McDonalds would sue Him and win.
Muse on that. And set your Email to respond inline. I have to dig through my trash to figger out what you are responding to by subject line.
I have the highest respect for you, I appreciate your work and contributions to the list, and I hope that a good debate won’t upset you too much.
Don
           Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
All the more reason that Ibogaine should be an “overground” herb/treatment, given liberally, but sensibly with compassionate/sophisticated dispensers, not “commercial” ones.  Maybe this is where National Health can provide, even here in the USA.  It may depend upon getting the “profit” motive out of health care, which our present government seems not the least interested in, but to my way of thinking, is the answer.  The practice of medicine can be satisfying enough, you don’t really need a mammouth income for life long satisfaction.  But we have been indoctrinated that DOCTORS “deserve” lots of money.  What a mistake!  If their education could be made free, why not their income kept sensible and comfortable, but not extravagant?
I’m convinced that most doctors enter the field with idealism and an interest in people, but since they are not taught to “understand people,” they get discouraged and turn to money for their family.  Capitalism doesn’t help at this point.  Just musing. Dr. Ed
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 18, 2005 at 2:06:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Awww, Ed, COME ON,
The panacea is nice, but let’s get real here. The root of the web is the tremendous liability awards involved, and the idea that they don’t “Cost” anything to unaffected parties.
BUT, let’s look at your idea.
1. What kind of Doctors are you expecting from a “Free” education? Are you advocating that anybody can be a Dr., and the brightest minds are simply scattered around the populace?
2. Would you waive your right to sue? I mean, if you try to stuff a turnip into a raisin and it doesn’t take, it doesn’t matter as long as the raisin is compassionate, right?
3. You want this overseen, regulated and dispensed by WHOM? The same government that:
     A. promotes the unlimited liability claims
     B. considers “Equality” to be wealth redistribution
    C. refuses to recognize God, yet expects mortal men to be infallible or else remove from them the money that THEY PRINTED on a promise of ownership.
    D. outlawed Ibogaine to begin with.
The MAJOR problem with Ibogaine is that capitalism is NOT involved. If Merck or Pfizer would just simply synthesize the compound, it would sweep the country. BUT WHY DO IT? 253 million awarded to ONE WOMAN (Vioxx) with 4200 cases pending!! Merck has set aside $675 million to fight them. Whatever happened to “God called him home, at least his pain was relieved”? The CEO of Merck could have driven his car into the man’s living room through his front door, jumped out and blown his face off with a shotgun, and the jury would have been more sympathetic. Why do ANYTHING with a 0.5% risk factor? And CURE? Promote a CURE? Whaddaya think they are, IDIOTS?? If GOD himself came down and cured hunger, McDonalds would sue Him and win.
Muse on that. And set your Email to respond inline. I have to dig through my trash to figger out what you are responding to by subject line.
 I have the highest respect for you, I appreciate your work and contributions to the list, and I hope that a good debate won’t upset you too much.
Don
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
All the more reason that Ibogaine should be an “overground” herb/treatment, given liberally, but sensibly with compassionate/sophisticated dispensers, not “commercial” ones.  Maybe this is where National Health can provide, even here in the USA.  It may depend upon getting the “profit” motive out of health care, which our present government seems not the least interested in, but to my way of thinking, is the answer.  The practice of medicine can be satisfying enough, you don’t really need a mammouth income for life long satisfaction.  But we have been indoctrinated that DOCTORS “deserve” lots of money.  What a mistake!  If their education could be made free, why not their income kept sensible and comfortable, but not extravagant?
I’m convinced that most doctors enter the field with idealism and an interest in people, but since they are not taught to “understand people,” they get discouraged and turn to money for their family.  Capitalism doesn’t help at this point.  Just musing. Dr. Ed
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 17, 2005 at 6:34:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
If Ibogaine erases withdrawal AND craving, one would expect it to reduce the toler-ance to opiates to NORMAL, which means anywhere NEAR the addicts usual daily dose would be extremely toxic and lethal.  THAT’S WHY one should NOT consider taking opiates during an Ibogaine Treatment.  You do NOT know where your tolerance is at any one point during the treatment.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 17, 2005 at 6:31:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
All the more reason that Ibogaine should be an “overground” herb/treatment, given liberally, but sensibly with compassionate/sophisticated dispensers, not “commercial” ones.  Maybe this is where National Health can provide, even here in the USA.  It may depend upon getting the “profit” motive out of health care, which our present government seems not the least interested in, but to my way of thinking, is the answer.  The practice of medicine can be satisfying enough, you don’t really need a mammouth income for life long satisfaction.  But we have been indoctrinated that DOCTORS “deserve” lots of money.  What a mistake!  If their education could be made free, why not their income kept sensible and comfortable, but not extravagant?
I’m convinced that most doctors enter the field with idealism and an interest in people, but since they are not taught to “understand people,” they get discouraged and turn to money for their family.  Capitalism doesn’t help at this point.  Just musing. Dr. Ed
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 17, 2005 at 5:50:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Charles,
So what did you do to treat the symptoms shown by the patients below?
Thanks
Howard
In a message dated 12/17/05 8:25:24 AM, kabel@mweb.co.za writes:
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT anyone watch the Family Guy?
Date: December 17, 2005 at 5:40:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ehehe… that’s a great show… my personal second favourite, second only to the simpsons =)
laughing my ass off, just watching an episode of the Family
Guy by Seth McFarlane, which has Cookie MOnster in it..
firstly he is shown in rehab and having his room searched
for contraband… of course they find a plate full of
cookies in his bed, which he quickly denies is his and
blames everyone else before diving on them and eating
them…. then being sedated (whilst accusing his keepers of
being Nazis)
Then. When Lois has become a model and is in the bathroom
about to take Diet Pills for the first time she hears
something in the stalls, opens the door and here is Cookie
MOnster with a spoon full of cookie dough, and a lighter
undereneath it going come onnnn come onnnn mannnnnnn then
sees Lois….. go awayyy dont look at meeeeeeee
ROFLMAO
funny guy that seth.
Kirk xx
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas lights on his home?
Date: December 17, 2005 at 1:25:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It filled up my mailbox tho.
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:01:06 -0800 calliemimosa@aol.com wrote:
Enjoy!! This is not a virus! It is magnificent!!
Callie
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 17, 2005 at 1:10:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello
Nick, I seem to recall when you first posted about that experience years ago that it sort of overwhelmed you to the point of loss of consciousness; for a couple days I think you said.  I wonder if maybe you went so far passed the “necessary to surrender” dose that you missed it, so to speak.
On a completely side note it has bothered me to this very day that the native people you dealt with in Cameroon displayed such greed.  It just seems so out of character with the lessons of iboga to me.
At any rate, back to your point, I agree that the relationship between dose and surrender quotient are not absolute or direct.  But speaking for myself, I am the type who holds on to stuff so tightly that I can’t let go.  Even knowing intellectually that there is a release and peace on the other side of surrender makes it no easier for me to accomplish most of the time.  So for people like me, it is usually necessary for the pain of remaining the same to become greater than the pain of change in order to accomplish the change.
Matt
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk] 
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:17 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Hi Matt and Bruce,
Interesting thread. Personally, I’m not so sure that dose and surrender quotient (!) are necessarily so related. I’ve taken a massive dose of iboga years ago in Africa but I don’t consider it a particularly transformational experience, as much as one can assess these things. I had a far stronger experience of just letting go and being with what is from a relatively mild dose. I think it’s difficult to pin down the experience of surrender to causes or factors. It just happens sometimes and I guess there actually isn’t anyone who can consciously create it anyway. I love what you write below about the experience, Matt.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive, to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists, begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.  We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.  Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit approval to take gargantuan doses.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 17, 2005 at 12:59:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Pascall
I mean an appropriate drug that is indicated for the condition that arises,
i.e. Muscle relaxers for spasms like IM Valium or Rivotril, or Effortil for
low blood pressure, or adrenaline/epinephrine for shock, Maxolon for nausea,
etc.  Definately no opiates!!  And this includes someone who knows how to
use these drugs ito dose ranges, side effects, compatibility, etc.
I tell patients beforehand to carry on using minimal quantities of their
drug (very few listen to the minimal part of this advice) until just before
D-date, then nothing.  This is because I feel they need their fix to avoid
getting sick beforehand, but during and afterwards they don’t need it
anymore.  If they feel very anxious, they can smoke a joint if they feel
it’s really necessary. (Don’t tell anyone I said so). Withdrawals and bad
cravings can be treated if they arise and are real.
Hope this answers
Regards
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:53 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Hi,
right! but by taking the “appropriate” drug, do you mean the opiate or a
chemical drug?
To return to opiate during the iboga treatment can have fatal
consequences…. or not?
These discussions make me believe that there is a very long way until iboga
will be one day “officialised”. There are so many individual reactions, some
unpredictable. The list of side effects, when buying a pack of iboga, would
be discouraging.
Iboga might therefore remain an underground medecine. Some wild horses
cannot be trained.
just a thought, without negative intentions,
p.r.
From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:02:46 +0200
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not
treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an
extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the
appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: 17 December 2005 02:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically
sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected
dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those
opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough
resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being
reckless.  Dr. Ed
Good point. Not to mention that any dangerous or life-threatening side
effects are likely to be harmful to your health =P
At the very least, you should have someone stay with you who is willing
to call the paramedics if things get hairy.
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please ooops
Date: December 17, 2005 at 11:29:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hah
as usual i just skimed quickly through the email without really reading what was written
the same with my writing ..i always write quickly wihtout puting much thought on my syntax, grammar spelling ….oh well …part of the game
anyway
wht i meant to say is this —– the people who dont realize the deeper meaning of what life is about is only because they want to focus on other things in this life
all about balance right
so even though ibogaine shows the illusionary thinking of “normal” people is not the universal truth, yet their thinking is as valid and real as those who are in the “know zone” haha know zone….good one!.lol…hah just praised my self for something i thought that is funny…how funny!
so in the end there really is no right way of looking at the world
even though i m fully convinced that what i think is the universal truth –doesnt mean anything really because in the next life i might choose to be born as a man who only want to exp the plesures of sex, money etc…excluding the contemplative life……hmmmmm what an idea….
but now i do feel blessed that i have found out the meaning of life!!!!!!!!!!
good day to all of u
love
m
also we cant take our selves to seriuosly!!!!! we have to laugh at ourselves sometimes because after all we are just these chharacters put on planet earth….hahahaha what complex machines we are but what funny complex machines….with our little problems etc…..big fuken lol
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 10:51:28 -0500
I dont think it shows us that its illusianory….i think it shows us that its as much valid as the other realities
we just have to be fully councious of whats going on
AWARNESS!!!!
we just have to realize that our whole self created this life, and taht this is like a game,a quest, a journey in which we are councious createors of everything that is around us
once we realize that we could never be  unhappy, we will ofcourse go through bad days etc but its only temporarily
once we realize this life here, this planet here is one of millions, we will realize that every moment here on earth, in this body, with this features is SACRED AND WILL PROPABLY NEVER REPEAT IT SELF
i can honestly say that from the last ibo exp i fully grasped that meaning/feeling and even though i crave to do a big speeball i know i wont, because my body is a sacred temple, another world in its self i wont poison it !!!! and my brain/mind….hah!!!! what a trip!!!
what a great fuken journey this is…….fuk me it took me 27 years and 4 ibo trips to realzie taht!!!1
fuken A!!!
love matt
love yes love what is more powerfull than love
hah!!
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:44:53 -0700
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive, to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists, begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.  We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.  Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit approval to take gargantuan doses.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 17, 2005 at 10:51:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I dont think it shows us that its illusianory….i think it shows us that its as much valid as the other realities
we just have to be fully councious of whats going on
AWARNESS!!!!
we just have to realize that our whole self created this life, and taht this is like a game,a quest, a journey in which we are councious createors of everything that is around us
once we realize that we could never be  unhappy, we will ofcourse go through bad days etc but its only temporarily
once we realize this life here, this planet here is one of millions, we will realize that every moment here on earth, in this body, with this features is SACRED AND WILL PROPABLY NEVER REPEAT IT SELF
i can honestly say that from the last ibo exp i fully grasped that meaning/feeling and even though i crave to do a big speeball i know i wont, because my body is a sacred temple, another world in its self i wont poison it !!!! and my brain/mind….hah!!!! what a trip!!!
what a great fuken journey this is…….fuk me it took me 27 years and 4 ibo trips to realzie taht!!!1
fuken A!!!
love matt
love yes love what is more powerfull than love
hah!!
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 21:44:53 -0700
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive, to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists, begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.  We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.  Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit approval to take gargantuan doses.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 17, 2005 at 10:17:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt and Bruce,
Interesting thread. Personally, I’m not so sure that dose and surrender quotient (!) are necessarily so related. I’ve taken a massive dose of iboga years ago in Africa but I don’t consider it a particularly transformational experience, as much as one can assess these things. I had a far stronger experience of just letting go and being with what is from a relatively mild dose. I think it’s difficult to pin down the experience of surrender to causes or factors. It just happens sometimes and I guess there actually isn’t anyone who can consciously create it anyway. I love what you write below about the experience, Matt.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 17 December 2005 04:45
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive, to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists, begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.  We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.  Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit approval to take gargantuan doses.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please//
Date: December 17, 2005 at 9:52:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
right! but by taking the “appropriate” drug, do you mean the opiate or a chemical drug?
To return to opiate during the iboga treatment can have fatal consequences…. or not?
These discussions make me believe that there is a very long way until iboga will be one day “officialised”. There are so many individual reactions, some unpredictable. The list of side effects, when buying a pack of iboga, would be discouraging.
Iboga might therefore remain an underground medecine. Some wild horses cannot be trained.
just a thought, without negative intentions,
p.r.
From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2005 15:02:46 +0200
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: 17 December 2005 02:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
> For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically
> sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected
> dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those
> opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough
> resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being
> reckless.  Dr. Ed
Good point. Not to mention that any dangerous or life-threatening side
effects are likely to be harmful to your health =P
At the very least, you should have someone stay with you who is willing
to call the paramedics if things get hairy.
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] “Control” to Matt
Date: December 17, 2005 at 8:50:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Very, VERY well put!  I support your “perceptual angle” wholeheartedly.  Studying Sleep, and especially REM-Stage Sleep, for the past 40 years, I came to a similar observation/conclusion.  Sleep is a good example of losing CONTROL, but oh….how necessary for our brain, mind and lives.  That’s why I had to theorize that Ibogaine somehow “re-places” lost REM-Sleep NEED, and that one of the greatest impetuses to “using” and “abusing” bad drugs, is the State of REM-Sleep deprivation we all accumulate under life stress and/or bad sleep habits or difficult sleeping ability.  Losing control is also the “magic” of placebo medication, giving over “control” to THE PILL, whether the pill works or not.  Faith in God is another miraculous “losing control,” whether or not there is a GOD.  “Giving Over” to our Higher Power is another!  Life MUST become a balance of maintaining and losing CONTROL.  It can’t be all one or the other. Matt, you have found TRUTH with this perception (IMO).  Full speed ahead.  Dr. Ed
From: “Charles Rossouw” <kabel@mweb.co.za>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 17, 2005 at 8:02:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all
I have had three instances where acute muscle spams started long after
Ibogaine was taken.  I’m talking 18hours, 20 hours and 26 hours.  These
spasms caused, amongst other epilepsy-resembling spasms, a jaw-lock type of
situation in two of these patients, which were really scary.  If not treated
immediately, I’m sure they would have broken their teeth, or bit on the
inside of their cheeks or on their tongues. They were anxcious as hell when
this happened, and if the symptoms were not relieved very quickly, (an extra
dose of Ibogaine at this stage takes at least 30 minutes – not fast enough)
I’m sure they would have percieved the total experience as negative.
I want to add by saying that at least a person who is properly briefed on
possible effects of detoxing should be on close standby, especially if one
is trying to get off Heroin/opiates. This person should have the appropriate
drugs with him/her, or have immediate access to these drugs, to treat these
conditions.
Charles
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: 17 December 2005 02:52 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically
sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected
dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those
opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough
resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being
reckless.  Dr. Ed
Good point. Not to mention that any dangerous or life-threatening side
effects are likely to be harmful to your health =P
At the very least, you should have someone stay with you who is willing
to call the paramedics if things get hairy.
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 17, 2005 at 7:37:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Don,
I expected yr comments on Frantisek Hrdy’s “conference room” mail. Don’t ask me why!
Then I did read yr below mail, this time very positive.
Thanks, and happy Christmas
love
p.r.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 12:48:59 -0600
Wow.
I know I blab on and go off at times (??), said things I regret and
things I don’t. This needs saying..
The growth and ascending maturity of the people in here is truly
astounding. I am in awe. A rag-tag renegade group of people, looking,
and finding answers and clarity here, of all places. Seek and ye shall
find, look without eyes and you will see, you will become what you
worship. The mind-power here is like a bulldozer, our thoughts and
caring is actually spawning changes, ideas, new attitudes. AND hope,
for all of us.
Geez, I LUV you guys..
OOPS, just bropped my deer
Merry Christmas
Don
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
 Thanks for that Pascal! Very good and gives me hope once again
and the desire to do Ibogaine.
 All the negative talk about death, secondary health problems,
etc., really had me wondering for the first time since I learned of
Ibogaine, whether I really wanted to try it or not. Most (90%) of those
doubts are now not so important. I really think the deaths from
Ibogaine are no more than we have just living day to day. In clearer
words Dying while under influence or after Ibogaone is no more common
than airplane crashes or car hijacking! Know what I mean?
 I feel it is very important to be realistic and discuss and be
aware of the risks involved but lets have more positive, hopeful
discussions now that the New Years is coming.
 Maybe it can be one of our resolutions!
 I would imagine all the talk about death and other bad effects
run a lot of new, curious people away.
 We are the ones who can do it so lets do! Let the medical staff
or Ibogaine provider fill you in on those things when the person
interested in Ibogaine has taken the step to try it.
 Wishing Peace on Earth, Good will to you all!
 Callie
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT anyone watch the Family Guy?
Date: December 17, 2005 at 2:25:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
laughing my ass off, just watching an episode of the Family
Guy by Seth McFarlane, which has Cookie MOnster in it..
firstly he is shown in rehab and having his room searched
for contraband… of course they find a plate full of
cookies in his bed, which he quickly denies is his and
blames everyone else before diving on them and eating
them…. then being sedated (whilst accusing his keepers of
being Nazis)
Then. When Lois has become a model and is in the bathroom
about to take Diet Pills for the first time she hears
something in the stalls, opens the door and here is Cookie
MOnster with a spoon full of cookie dough, and a lighter
undereneath it going come onnnn come onnnn mannnnnnn then
sees Lois….. go awayyy dont look at meeeeeeee
ROFLMAO
funny guy that seth.
Kirk xx
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 17, 2005 at 1:51:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi bruce,
sorry i must have missed that one… what happend in your
experience?
Kirsty
—– Original Message Follows —–
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and
the manahattan  type  scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry
and who know what I   went through a horrible experience
on one third the dose I would have normally
taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence.
It’s not easy to   imagine you also as one of the true
believers. My experience with believers is   usually that
their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they
ever were
capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word
useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been
described in the forum  and  in the protocols i’ve read.
I haven’t given up but I think I will  follow up  with
research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] DELETE ME FROM THIS EMAIL LIST PLS
Date: December 17, 2005 at 1:47:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Um, well, you obviously don’t know how email lists work but
it goes o something like this.,..
YOU sign up to it
YOU unsign from it
senda  blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
might work better than asking all of us yeh? ;o)
shame you can’t stick around
Good luck whatever you are looking for
Kirsty xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
PLS DROP MY NAME FROM THIS EMAIL LIST
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From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] DELETE ME FROM THIS EMAIL LIST PLS
Date: December 16, 2005 at 11:53:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
PLS DROP MY NAME FROM THIS EMAIL LIST
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 11:44:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Bruce
Not to minimize your experience at all, but I have a perceptual angle for you on this.  I believe that one of the biggest gifts that ibogaine offers is surrender.  I think our ordinary mind state is one of illusionary control and imagined certainty.  It feels somehow comfortable to our minds to think that we “know”.  We pretend we know what it means to be human, to be alive, to exist in this place.  Then ibogaine shows us the illusionary nature of our certainty, our control, our entire state of consciousness.  What a sham we have pulled on ourselves.  That’s scary stuff.  Our mind rebels, resists, begins fighting what it doesn’t want to see.  So we suffer.  Usually quite a lot.  Until we are overcome, or we see the futility of the fight and give it up.  Then comes the release, huge, amazing, full of grace; and suddenly all our torment and suffering is literally transformed into peace and serenity.  We surrender to what is.
But our minds are powerful and can fight for a long time if necessary.  What if you have to take enough to let the ibogaine win?  Lesser amounts just engage the resistance enough to create various degrees of uncomfortability.  Unless you can surrender at a low dose too.  Maybe something to think about.
Matt
And please don’t anyone take this as some sort of permission or tacit approval to take gargantuan doses.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 9:00 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 11:00:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don’t get me wrong. I believe it does amazing things and the manahattan type scenario should be started.
I am just telling you that with my particular chemistry and who know what I went through a horrible experience on one third the dose I would have normally taken as a man of my weight.
My impression of you was that of a man of intelligence. It’s not easy to imagine you also as one of the true believers. My experience with believers is usually that their critical thinking has gone by the wayside, if they ever were capable of it. I’m just being way to picky about word useage. Sorry.
But I otherwise experienced much of what has been described in the forum and in the protocols i’ve read.  I haven’t given up but I think I will follow up with research into low dose treatments.
Bruce
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 8:19:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Of course, the users of ibogaine and their safety is paramount.  It is just so unbeliev-able that Ibogaine can be so reasonably safe and perform the dramatic, fabulous healing it is credited with giving.  Few people are going to believe it without a helping hand from one of us believers.  Dr. Ed
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 7:52:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being reckless.  Dr. Ed
Good point. Not to mention that any dangerous or life-threatening side effects are likely to be harmful to your health =P
At the very least, you should have someone stay with you who is willing to call the paramedics if things get hairy.
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 6:47:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My only option is to pressure ALL LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES to needle NADA & the NIMH to open their minds a smidgen and support RAPID acceptance of this 21st century curative herb!  BUT, we have to be “scientific” which means depending upon Deborah Mash and her diligent work in St. Kitts.  I’m hoping she is about to present her data of 400 patients WITHOUT a single death.  That’s a LOT better than the
Methadone Clinic proponents can boast.  People are succumbing from the Methadone programs all over the country (USA), while Ibogaine continues to be “illegal.”  What a f……..king travesty, and I don’t like using that word, as you can tell.  Write our Congresspersons, even if you’re not from the “dear old” USA.  Love,  Dr. Ed
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fly Kirk where?????:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 4:36:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
A? Wot? wat did i miss?? Where am I going?? who’s paying???
lol
I’m KEEN!!! hehhe
tick tock, time does flee, january is a comin’ for
meeeeeeeeee!!!!
knockin’ on the door, here comes FEAR
but i opened it with FAITH, there aint  nuttin there.
Happy tinsel season to all.
LUFF LITE N LAFTA
Kirsty xxxxxx :o)
—– Original Message Follows —–
[email.htm]
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC “-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN”> <html>
<head>
 <meta content=”text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1″
http-equiv=”Content-Type”> </head>
<body bgcolor=”#ffffff” text=”#000000″>
You could fly Kirk in, (just kidding). I would think the
fear of facing this alone might be detrimental to the
experience itself. If you are going to become a child
again, shouldn’t you prepare a loving environment to be
welcomed into? Who’s gonna turn the music up or off when
the floor is on the ceiling and you can’t walk? Having a
friend there not only makes sense, but might be crucial to
recovery. And that IS THE POINT, right? Detoxed and dead
by aspiration kinda negates the entire plan.<br>
<br>
matthew zielinski wrote:
<blockquote
cite=”midBAY102-F25B202E226AE77DD6FFC87AF3A0@phx.gbl”
type=”cite”>
 <div style=””>
 <p>Yes. True!</p>
 <p>But what other options do we have??<br>
 <br>
 </p>
 <br>
 <br>
 <br>
 <div>
 <p> </p>
 </div>
 <blockquote
style=”border-left: 2px solid rgb(160, 198, 229);
padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px
;”><font
style=”font-size: 11px; font-family:
tahoma,sans-serif;”>
   <hr color=”#a0c6e5″ size=”1″>From: <i><a
class=”moz-txt-link-abbreviated”
href=”mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com”>Edfriedrichs@aol.com</a
</i><br> Reply-To: <i><a
class=”moz-txt-link-abbreviated”
href=”mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com”>ibogaine@mindvox.com</a
</i><br> To: <i><a class=”moz-txt-link-abbreviated”
href=”mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com”>ibogaine@mindvox.com</a
</i><br> Subject: <i>[Ibogaine] Caution Please:</i><br>
Date: <i>Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:40:47 EST</i><br>
   <br>
   <font face=”arial,helvetica”><font size=”2″>For
those
of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically
sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY
unexpected dangerous or life-threatening side effects will
FUEL the fire of those opposing Ibogaine use as a
anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough resistence
from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by
being reckless.  Dr. Ed<br>
   </font><br>
   </font></font></blockquote>
 </div>
 <br clear=”all”>
 <hr>Take the effort out of being organized with MSN®
Calendar. <a
href=”http://g.msn.com/8HMBENCA/2740??PS=47575″
target=”_top”>MSN Premium:</a> Join now and get the
first
two months
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [OT] Yay! Senate Rejects Extension of Patriot Act
Date: December 16, 2005 at 4:23:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051216/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act
.:vector:.
The Senate on Friday refused to reauthorize major portions of the USA
Patriot Act after critics complained they infringed too much on
Americans’ privacy and liberty, dealing a huge defeat to the Bush
administration and Republican leaders.
In a crucial vote early Friday, the bill’s Senate supporters were not
able to get the 60 votes needed to overcome a filibuster by Sens. Russ
Feingold, D-Wis., and Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and their allies. The final
vote was 52-47.
President Bush, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and Republicans
congressional leaders had lobbied fiercely to make most of the expiring
Patriot Act provisions permanent.
They also supported new safeguards and expiration dates to the act’s
two most controversial parts: authorization for roving wiretaps, which
allow investigators to monitor multiple devices to keep a target from
evading detection by switching phones or computers; and secret warrants
for books, records and other items from businesses, hospitals and
organizations such as libraries.
Feingold, Craig and other critics said those efforts weren’t enough,
and have called for the law to be extended in its present form so they
can continue to try and add more civil liberties safeguards. But Bush,
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist and House Speaker Dennis Hastert have
said they won’t accept a short-term extension of the law.
If a compromise is not reached, the 16 Patriot Act provisions expire on
Dec. 31, but the expirations have enormous exceptions. Investigators
will still be able to use those powers to complete any investigation
that began before the expiration date and to initiate new
investigations of any alleged crime that began before Dec. 31,
according to a provision in the original law. There are ongoing
investigations of every known terrorist group, including al-Qaida,
Hamas, Hezbollah, the Islamic Jihad and the Zarqawi group in Iraq, and
all the Patriot Act tools could continue to be used in those
investigations.
Five Republicans voted against the reauthorization: Chuck Hagel of
Nebraska, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, John Sununu of New Hampshire, Craig
and Frist. Two Democrats voted to extend the provisions: Sens. Tim
Johnson of South Dakota and Ben Nelson of Nebraska.
Frist, R-Tenn., changed his vote at the last moment after seeing the
critics would win. He decided to vote with the prevailing side so he
could call for a new vote at any time. He immediately objected to an
offer of a short term extension from Democrats, saying the House won’t
approve it and the president won’t sign it.
“We have more to fear from terrorism than we do from this Patriot Act,”
Frist warned.
If the Patriot Act provisions expire, Republicans say they will place
the blame on Democrats in next year’s midterm elections. “In the war on
terror, we cannot afford to be without these vital tools for a single
moment,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. “The time
for Democrats to stop standing in the way has come.”
But the Patriot Act’s critics got a boost from a New York Times report
saying Bush authorized the National Security Agency to monitor the
international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds —
perhaps thousands — of people inside the United States. Previously, the
NSA typically limited its domestic surveillance to foreign embassies
and missions and obtained court orders for such investigations.
“I don’t want to hear again from the attorney general or anyone on this
floor that this government has shown it can be trusted to use the power
we give it with restraint and care,” said Feingold, the only senator to
vote against the Patriot Act in 2001.
“It is time to have some checks and balances in this country,” shouted
Sen. Patrick Leahy (news, bio, voting record), ranking Democrat on the
Judiciary Committee. “We are more American for doing that.”
Most of the Patriot Act — which expanded the government’s surveillance
and prosecutorial powers against suspected terrorists, their associates
and financiers — was made permanent when Congress overwhelmingly passed
it after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York City and
Washington. Making the rest of it permanent was a priority for both the
Bush administration and Republican leaders on Capitol Hill before
Congress adjourns for the year.
The House on Wednesday passed a House-Senate compromise bill to renew
the expiring portions of the Patriot Act that supporters say added
significant safeguards to the law. Its Senate supporters say that
compromise is the only thing that has a chance to pass Congress before
2006.
“This is a defining moment. There are no more compromises to be made,
no more extensions of time. The bill is what it is,” said Sen. Jon Kyl
(news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz.
The bill’s opponents say the original act was rushed into law, and
Congress should take more time now to make sure the rights of innocent
Americans are safeguarded before making the expiring provisions
permanent.
“Those that would give up essential liberties in pursuit in a little
temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security,” said Sen.
John Sununu (news, bio, voting record), R-N.H. They suggested a short
extension so negotiations could continue, but the Senate scrapped a
Democratic-led effort to renew the USA Patriot Act for just three
months before the vote began.
“Today, fair-minded senators stood firm in their commitment to the
Constitution and rejected the White House’s call to pass a faulty law,”
said Caroline Fredrickson, the director of the American Civil Liberties
Union’s Washington legislative office. “This was a victory for the
privacy and liberty of all Americans.”
___
On the Net:
Justice Department’s Web site on the USA Patriot Act:
http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/
ACLU’s Patriot Act Web site: http://www.aclu.org/safefree
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 2:15:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You could fly Kirk in, (just kidding). I would think the fear of facing this alone might be detrimental to the experience itself. If you are going to become a child again, shouldn’t you prepare a loving environment to be welcomed into? Who’s gonna turn the music up or off when the floor is on the ceiling and you can’t walk? Having a friend there not only makes sense, but might be crucial to recovery. And that IS THE POINT, right? Detoxed and dead by aspiration kinda negates the entire plan.
matthew zielinski wrote:
Yes. True!
But what other options do we have??
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:40:47 EST
For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being reckless.  Dr. Ed
Take the effort out of being organized with MSN® Calendar. MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 16, 2005 at 1:48:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow.
I know I blab on and go off at times (??), said things I regret and things I don’t. This needs saying..
The growth and ascending maturity of the people in here is truly astounding. I am in awe. A rag-tag renegade group of people, looking, and finding answers and clarity here, of all places. Seek and ye shall find, look without eyes and you will see, you will become what you worship. The mind-power here is like a bulldozer, our thoughts and caring is actually spawning changes, ideas, new attitudes. AND hope, for all of us.
Geez, I LUV you guys..
OOPS, just bropped my deer
Merry Christmas
Don
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Thanks for that Pascal! Very good and gives me hope once again and the desire to do Ibogaine.
All the negative talk about death, secondary health problems, etc., really had me wondering for the first time since I learned of Ibogaine, whether I really wanted to try it or not. Most (90%) of those doubts are now not so important. I really think the deaths from Ibogaine are no more than we have just living day to day. In clearer words Dying while under influence or after Ibogaone is no more common than airplane crashes or car hijacking! Know what I mean?
I feel it is very important to be realistic and discuss and be aware of the risks involved but lets have more positive, hopeful discussions now that the New Years is coming.
Maybe it can be one of our resolutions!
I would imagine all the talk about death and other bad effects run a lot of new, curious people away.
We are the ones who can do it so lets do! Let the medical staff or Ibogaine provider fill you in on those things when the person interested in Ibogaine has taken the step to try it.
Wishing Peace on Earth, Good will to you all!
Callie
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From: “iboga_planteur” <iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE : [Ibogaine] Extraction
Date: December 16, 2005 at 12:41:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t think extraction is a good process for such a small quantity, you
will loose most of the active elements, why don’t u use it raw, or have it
in capsules..
—–Message d’origine—–
De : Tuxedo Machine [mailto:tuxmachine@hotmail.com]
Envoyé : Friday, December 16, 2005 8:11 AM
À : ibogaine@mindvox.com
Objet : [Ibogaine] Extraction
We’re probably going to use the extraction process listed at:
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/extract.htm
Problem with this method is that it states the quantities of
everything…except the rootbark!
We have 20g of rootbark, and we’d hate to have gone to all this trouble to
find out that we oversaturated the extraction fluid.
We are probbaly going to double the vodka/wine/lemon/vinegar quantities
unless someone with experience using this extraction method or with
technical expertise can tell me the quantities as stated are enough for 20g
of rootbark.
It’s a lot of vodka, but I figure we’ll be boiling off the alcohol anyway.
We start the extraction process tonight or tomorrow morning, so pls be
quick.
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
ASUS M5 Ultra-slim lightweight is Now $1999 (was $2,999)
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Easus%2Ecom%2Eau%2F&_t=
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 12:07:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes. True!
But what other options do we have??
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 11:40:47 EST
For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being reckless.  Dr. Ed
Take the effort out of being organized with MSNŪ Calendar. MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Caution Please:
Date: December 16, 2005 at 11:40:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
For those of you “brave” enough to take ibogaine without medically sophisticated folks nearby, please REMEMBER that ANY unexpected dangerous or life-threatening side effects will FUEL the fire of those opposing Ibogaine use as a anti-addiction drug/herb.  We have enough resistence from “THE DRUG WAR” already.  Don’t add to it by being reckless.  Dr. Ed
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Extraction
Date: December 16, 2005 at 11:00:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Extraction
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2005 14:12:10 -0000
I wrote that extraction from a recipe that came online years ago. I’ve used
it myself with 20g of rootbark and I think it’s fine.
Nick
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Tuxedo Machine [mailto:tuxmachine@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 16 December 2005 13:11
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Extraction
>
>
> We’re probably going to use the extraction process listed at:
>
> http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/extract.htm
>
> Problem with this method is that it states the quantities of
> everything…except the rootbark!
>
> We have 20g of rootbark, and we’d hate to have gone to all this
> trouble to
> find out that we oversaturated the extraction fluid.
>
> We are probbaly going to double the vodka/wine/lemon/vinegar quantities
> unless someone with experience using this extraction method or with
> technical expertise can tell me the quantities as stated are
> enough for 20g
> of rootbark.
>
> It’s a lot of vodka, but I figure we’ll be boiling off the alcohol anyway.
>
> We start the extraction process tonight or tomorrow morning, so pls be
> quick.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tux
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> ASUS M5 Ultra-slim lightweight is Now $1999 (was $2,999)
> http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Easus%2Ecom%2
Eau%2F&_t=752129232&_r=Hotmail_tagline_23Nov05&_m=EXT
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT rons interesting but empty email lol
Date: December 16, 2005 at 10:25:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
keep up your good works.  your attitude has a positive effect on others.  mine doesn’t.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 3:06 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT rons interesting but empty email lol
Was there something you were going to say Ron??
;o)
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 9:47 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Anybody know if it airs in Canada?
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 16, 2005 at 10:11:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Tux,
Looking forward to hearing about your journey when you’re ready.  A couple things I found helpful:
Map out the way to the bathroom before you begin.  You will lose your sense of spatial orientation, your foot won’t hit the floor when you think! 🙂 Since you both will just have that in mind.
I found it helpful to have someone to bounce things off of every once in a while (not literally 😉 , like every few hours. You may not.
I think it’s a good idea to have someone who has a sense of what you are doing to stop in and check on you guys –  I’m glad I had someone there in the next room.
That’s all!  I wish you an enlightening and safe journey.
Lotsa love,
brenda
On 12/16/05 3:37 AM, “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Brenda
>
> Yep, 1st time. I’m taking it together with a friend (who will also be taking
> it – 10g root bark each), both healthy. Might have another friend come check
> us once in a while.
>
> We’re just taking it out of interest in what we might discover. My light
> experimentation with drugs ended about 7 years ago (with my student days)
> but I’d heard about ibogaine for many years and was always curious. It’s
> only since I recently moved to the UK (was in Australia where it is illegal)
> and someone reminded me of ibogaine, that my interest was rekindled.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tux
>
>> From: shakti@photon.net
>> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
>> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:11:21 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> Hi Tux,
>>
>> I’m curious if you care to share why you are taking Ibo?  It sounds like
>> this will be your first time?
>>
>> Will you be alone or will you have someone with you?
>>
>> Brenda 🙂
>>
>>
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Extraction
Date: December 16, 2005 at 9:12:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I wrote that extraction from a recipe that came online years ago. I’ve used
it myself with 20g of rootbark and I think it’s fine.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Tuxedo Machine [mailto:tuxmachine@hotmail.com]
Sent: 16 December 2005 13:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extraction
We’re probably going to use the extraction process listed at:
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/extract.htm
Problem with this method is that it states the quantities of
everything…except the rootbark!
We have 20g of rootbark, and we’d hate to have gone to all this
trouble to
find out that we oversaturated the extraction fluid.
We are probbaly going to double the vodka/wine/lemon/vinegar quantities
unless someone with experience using this extraction method or with
technical expertise can tell me the quantities as stated are
enough for 20g
of rootbark.
It’s a lot of vodka, but I figure we’ll be boiling off the alcohol anyway.
We start the extraction process tonight or tomorrow morning, so pls be
quick.
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
ASUS M5 Ultra-slim lightweight is Now $1999 (was $2,999)
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Easus%2Ecom%2
Eau%2F&_t=752129232&_r=Hotmail_tagline_23Nov05&_m=EXT
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From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extraction
Date: December 16, 2005 at 8:11:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
We’re probably going to use the extraction process listed at:
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/extract.htm
Problem with this method is that it states the quantities of everything…except the rootbark!
We have 20g of rootbark, and we’d hate to have gone to all this trouble to find out that we oversaturated the extraction fluid.
We are probbaly going to double the vodka/wine/lemon/vinegar quantities unless someone with experience using this extraction method or with technical expertise can tell me the quantities as stated are enough for 20g of rootbark.
It’s a lot of vodka, but I figure we’ll be boiling off the alcohol anyway.
We start the extraction process tonight or tomorrow morning, so pls be quick.
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
ASUS M5 Ultra-slim lightweight is Now $1999 (was $2,999)  http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Easus%2Ecom%2Eau%2F&_t=752129232&_r=Hotmail_tagline_23Nov05&_m=EXT
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From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 16, 2005 at 6:37:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Brenda
Yep, 1st time. I’m taking it together with a friend (who will also be taking it – 10g root bark each), both healthy. Might have another friend come check us once in a while.
We’re just taking it out of interest in what we might discover. My light experimentation with drugs ended about 7 years ago (with my student days) but I’d heard about ibogaine for many years and was always curious. It’s only since I recently moved to the UK (was in Australia where it is illegal) and someone reminded me of ibogaine, that my interest was rekindled.
Cheers
Tux
From: shakti@photon.net
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Hi Tux,
I’m curious if you care to share why you are taking Ibo?  It sounds like
this will be your first time?
Will you be alone or will you have someone with you?
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine conference room
Date: December 16, 2005 at 5:39:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello people,
I want to introduce myself, since it seems you all know each other here.
I heard of Ibogaine from person who was in my icq contact list and I didn’t know her (Brian Mariano’s girlfriend). Unfortunately it was too late for my best friend, who was addicted to heroine and tried everything to get free but didn’t succeed. Eight years ago he died after toluene inhalation which, he believed, would help him out from withdrawals. When I heard there is something like ibogaine I was very surprised it is not generally known and naturally I didn’t believe. Now, when I read a lot about it and I have seen one addict cured on my own eyes, I want to help as much as possible, to get ibogaine treatment to public and easy to reach. Now I cooperate with Brian Mariano and I will help him to rebuild his ibogaine.co.uk and ibogain.cz web pages. I still can’t believe there is this miraculous plant known to help conquer addiction for so many years and still it’s on underground scene only. WE HAVE TO PUSH, TO BRING IT TO LIGHT, PEOPLE!
Now about me: My name is Frantisek Hrdy. I’m 27, working as computer administrator. I live in Prague, Czech Republic. I used to call myself Christian, but now I know, I don’t fit in this category anymore. I believe God is talking to everyone and every culture and people are just too proud or dumb to share the same thought in same language. I’m interested in computers and technology, philosophy, religions, rock music and I want to have my own pub. I’ve never been addicted and neither have I tried any hard drugs. Occasionally I use marihuana and analyze different perception on it, as I’m interested on changed perception status. My personal email is fanyz@email.cz.
My further plan is to collect coherent and clear information about ibogaine as addiction cure and publish it on internet. There should be actual information about different contacts and places where addicts can search for help. Also there should be detailed instructions how to treat different addictions, statistics and testimonials. There should be collection of all medical studies published about ibogaine treatment. Likewise there should be actual information what’s new with ibogaine now.
I would like to ask you, if you have any information that could help, please share it with me. Also, if you publish here something which does not have any relation to ibogaine, please add to subject word ‘nonibogaine’.
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: [Ibogaine alone or not
Date: December 16, 2005 at 12:40:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Tuxedo,
the mail I have just posted and which mentions a website link, should be corrected!
the link is correct, but what you can read in English isn’t at all the translation of the French original text. Looks like they misplaced the translation or mixed it up.
Once I find the correct translation, let you know.
b.r.
p.r.
From: shakti@photon.net
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Hi Tux,
I’m curious if you care to share why you are taking Ibo?  It sounds like
this will be your first time?
Will you be alone or will you have someone with you?
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
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Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 16, 2005 at 12:40:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for that Pascal! Very good and gives me hope once again and the desire to do Ibogaine.
All the negative talk about death, secondary health problems, etc., really had me wondering for the first time since I learned of Ibogaine, whether I really wanted to try it or not. Most (90%) of those doubts are now not so important. I really think the deaths from Ibogaine are no more than we have just living day to day. In clearer words Dying while under influence or after Ibogaone is no more common than airplane crashes or car hijacking! Know what I mean?
I feel it is very important to be realistic and discuss and be aware of the risks involved but lets have more positive, hopeful discussions now that the New Years is coming.
Maybe it can be one of our resolutions!
I would imagine all the talk about death and other bad effects run a lot of new, curious people away.
We are the ones who can do it so lets do! Let the medical staff or Ibogaine provider fill you in on those things when the person interested in Ibogaine has taken the step to try it.
Wishing Peace on Earth, Good will to you all!
Callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 16, 2005 at 12:27:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Tuxedo,
Brenda’s question to you, whether you intend to take iboga alone or not, reminded me of an article’s title I saw several times published in a  french iboga site ” dangers to take iboga alone or not”
Since yesterday I was looking for it and couldn’t trace it anymore, and this morning, by chance found it back, and even with the translation:
http://www.iboga.org/us/agora/patrice.htm
good luck,
p.r.
From: shakti@photon.net
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:11:21 -0800 (PST)
Hi Tux,
I’m curious if you care to share why you are taking Ibo?  It sounds like
this will be your first time?
Will you be alone or will you have someone with you?
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
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Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 15, 2005 at 2:11:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Tux,
I’m curious if you care to share why you are taking Ibo?  It sounds like
this will be your first time?
Will you be alone or will you have someone with you?
Brenda 🙂
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Mike” <mcarpine@adelphia.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 15, 2005 at 2:09:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Is this the same stuff that I saw you can order online for like 30$ for
10gm’s or something?  Iboga Root Bark, Tabernanthe iboga 10 gm ?  Is that
the same thing or do I need to get it somewhere else?  Any suggestions?
Also, if it is, is 10gm’s enough to get what I am looking for?
Thanks!
Mike
—–Original Message—–
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 1:05 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Good luck on your journey!!
U read much about this? Lol that’s one of the first things you learn!!
Kirk ;o)
—–Original Message—–
From: Tuxedo Machine [mailto:tuxmachine@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 6:40 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
I think I read you need to stay really still for several hours after
ingestion to avoid nausea.
Would it be optimal to be sitting or lying down?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%
2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%
2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 15, 2005 at 1:04:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Good luck on your journey!!
U read much about this? Lol that’s one of the first things you learn!!
Kirk ;o)
—–Original Message—–
From: Tuxedo Machine [mailto:tuxmachine@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 6:40 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
I think I read you need to stay really still for several hours after
ingestion to avoid nausea.
Would it be optimal to be sitting or lying down?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%
2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%
2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 15, 2005 at 1:01:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lying down for sure.  Dim the lights too.  I never had problems with nausea
from movement but I always remained lying down as much as possible.
Sometimes I would toss and turn a little from side to side, but I always
seemed to find that lying on my back was most comfortable.  The first time I
crawled to the bathroom when I needed to pee.  On later journey’s I was able
to stagger there without getting nauseas.  I think it depends on how
susceptible to motion sickness you are, which I generally am not.  Balance
can be affected enough to make walking really hard on high doses though.
—–Original Message—–
From: Tuxedo Machine [mailto:tuxmachine@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 10:40 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
I think I read you need to stay really still for several hours after
ingestion to avoid nausea.
Would it be optimal to be sitting or lying down?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%
2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%
2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Sit or lie down after ingestion?
Date: December 15, 2005 at 12:40:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think I read you need to stay really still for several hours after ingestion to avoid nausea.
Would it be optimal to be sitting or lying down?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] attn–tux
Date: December 15, 2005 at 12:29:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks dude, taking it over xmas.
Have a merry one!
Tux
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] attn–tux
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 11:27:54 -0500
hey bro
since this is ur first journey to the depths of ur and our counciousness– i wish u all the best!!
safe and enligthening journey!!!!!!
love and guidance
matt
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:19:14 +0000
Finally received it.
Mind you, it took twice as long to deliver than as promised, and I also notice the actual postal charge (3.40 Canadian ie 2.46 euro) was about 1/8 what I was charged (ie 20 euro). No fancy packaging to justify the cost.
In any case, as long as quality is good, I’m a happy customer. Just make sure you order it well in advance.
Will report back.
>From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:51:47 +0000
>
>You are
right! They under invoiced the service. Should be much more
>than Euro 20.- (joke!!)
>
>
>Euro20.- sounds honest. Even a single DHL or TNT from continent to
>continent costs Euro80-100.-
>even for one single 2grams document!
>
>Of course, in case they never ship it, it will be expensive.
>
>But I thought that site only delivers to professionals!
>
>b.r.
>
>p.r.
>
>
>>From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
>>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:41:01 +0000
>>
>>Anyone had any problems ordering from www.africaphyto.com?
>>
>>They charged me a massive 20 euros delivery just for 20g of
>>rootbark. I
went through with it because the site is recommended on
>>www.ibogaine.co.uk and because the order form stated it would be
>>delivered in 5 days. It’s now 10 days and I need to have it by this
>>weekend in order to extract it by xmas.
>>
>>I emailed them yesterday, but no reply.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au
>>http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>>[%] Ibogaine List
Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s
>FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
_________________________________________________________________
Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=667&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startsomething
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] attn–tux
Date: December 15, 2005 at 11:27:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hey bro
since this is ur first journey to the depths of ur and our counciousness– i wish u all the best!!
safe and enligthening journey!!!!!!
love and guidance
matt
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:19:14 +0000
Finally received it.
Mind you, it took twice as long to deliver than as promised, and I also notice the actual postal charge (3.40 Canadian ie 2.46 euro) was about 1/8 what I was charged (ie 20 euro). No fancy packaging to justify the cost.
In any case, as long as quality is good, I’m a happy customer. Just make sure you order it well in advance.
Will report back.
>From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:51:47 +0000
>
>You are right! They under invoiced the service. Should be much more
>than Euro 20.- (joke!!)
>
>
>Euro20.- sounds honest. Even a single DHL or TNT from continent to
>continent costs Euro80-100.-
>even for one single 2grams document!
>
>Of course, in case they never ship it, it will be expensive.
>
>But I thought that site only delivers to professionals!
>
>b.r.
>
>p.r.
>
>
>>From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
>>Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:41:01 +0000
>>
>>Anyone had any problems ordering from www.africaphyto.com?
>>
>>They charged me a massive 20 euros delivery just for 20g of
>>rootbark. I went through with it because the site is recommended on
>>www.ibogaine.co.uk and because the order form stated it would be
>>delivered in 5 days. It’s now 10 days and I need to have it by this
>>weekend in order to extract it by xmas.
>>
>>I emailed them yesterday, but no reply.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au
>>http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>>
>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s
>FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
>[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=667&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startsomething
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: December 15, 2005 at 8:19:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Finally received it.
Mind you, it took twice as long to deliver than as promised, and I also notice the actual postal charge (3.40 Canadian ie 2.46 euro) was about 1/8 what I was charged (ie 20 euro). No fancy packaging to justify the cost.
In any case, as long as quality is good, I’m a happy customer. Just make sure you order it well in advance.
Will report back.
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:51:47 +0000
You are right! They under invoiced the service. Should be much more than Euro 20.- (joke!!)
Euro20.- sounds honest. Even a single DHL or TNT from continent to continent costs Euro80-100.-
even for one single 2grams document!
Of course, in case they never ship it, it will be expensive.
But I thought that site only delivers to professionals!
b.r.
p.r.
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:41:01 +0000
Anyone had any problems ordering from www.africaphyto.com?
They charged me a massive 20 euros delivery just for 20g of rootbark. I went through with it because the site is recommended on www.ibogaine.co.uk and because the order form stated it would be delivered in 5 days. It’s now 10 days and I need to have it by this weekend in order to extract it by xmas.
I emailed them yesterday, but no reply.
Any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
_________________________________________________________________
Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads! http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=667&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startsomething
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Date: December 14, 2005 at 11:00:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
We all have a chair here Don, maybe two. Matt can have mine when he can’t spell.  If the clown gets his own, Rachel can have his and you guys can have a spelling bee. koko in the lawn chair—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 12:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
I think  I love him, but not as much as Kirk. Kirk is blatant mad love, kinda odd, but needed, fills a void, she is so clear, closed a gap that I would have unsubscribed.
Thanx
Kirk wrote:
Nahh Matt is a girl…. Hahhahahahahahahahahah
(ducking……)
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 20 November 2005 4:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FUKEN COMP
Matt really cracks me up. One day, he kant spel fur shit, then produces a word document beautifully written. Bet there is a girl involved here???

just pondering, don

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Wow! Thanks Matt! What an experience! Your recall of it is so detailed. Does everyone remember everything so well? My memory sucks! Knowing the little bit about Ibogaine that I know, you are supposed to remember …..it would aid in your enlightenment which aids you in staying drug free. Right?
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Fwd: FW: THE CROSS
Date: December 14, 2005 at 7:45:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Dawid Bryzgalski <dawidcabal@yahoo.com>
To: adam lufka <adas@loofka.com>, anka <fire2soul@hotmail.com>, anka <seeania@hotmail.com>, azja <tomazya69@hotmail.com>, bartek <evilchild77@hotmail.com>, bartek i sylvia <sylvia.stepniak@sympatico.ca>, “Pawek b, Bednarski” <paul.bednarski@t4g.com>, belmondo <ghajdrych@hotmail.com>, “caroline tru.” <pacodelcuzco@hotmail.com>, chad <cpjuriansz@yahoo.com>, choncho <iransfinests@hotmail.com>, christafari <buddafingerx@yahoo.ca>, coolarek <amatel@gmail.com>, damian <dimik13@hotmail.com>, daria <daria_beer@hotmail.com>, doktor i ania <anna.brzakalik@sympatico.ca>, dominika <domila700@hotmail.com>, dziadek Jerzy <gnatowscy@wp.pl>, edyta <deelicious666@hotmail.com>, fafik <fafikfunk@hotmail.com>, fafik <kolpa369@hotmail.com>, gene <bedondou@yahoo.com>, gorniak <peter.gorniak@royalbank.com>, groby <ptaran@rogers.com>, grzeczny <grzeczny@earthlink.net>, ilona <ilonazaremba@hotmail.com>, jarek <hexcarrier@excite.com>, jola <jolantasg@hotmail.com>, justyna <artvisionj@hotmail.com>, karolina skrzypek – hotmail <tuptus@hotmail.com>, karolina skrzypek – praca <karolina.skrzypek@ups-scs.com>, karolina skrzypek – yahoo mail <karolina6912@yahoo.ca>, kasiag <kasiagaca@hotmail.com>, krysia <mk-design@rogers.com>, kuba <kuba@sympatico.ca>, kubus <kubadon1@hotmail.com>, kubus <kubadon1@yahoo.com>, kyle <mackdad420@hotmail.com>, ula lee <damaula@yahoo.com>, maciej <gajowy@hotmail.com>, maciej <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>, madzia <magdascislak@hotmail.com>, magda i krzys <kefirek7775@op.pl>, magda robak <magrobak@hotmail.com>, magdalena scislak <magdalena.scislak@rbc.com>, majka <maya.b@sympatico.ca>, mamita <dragoliane@yahoo.com>, mazena <mkotapska@yahoo.com>, nalepa <nalepson@acn.waw.pl>, nalepa <piotrnalepa@poczta.onet.pl>, natasha <natalia1one@hotmail.com>, natasza <bebus@sympatico.ca>, norbert <vonbarski@canoemail.com>, ewka palak <joyrida@hotmail.com>, pawel <pbednarski@gmail.com>, pawel <pbednarski@t4g.com>, karolina pawlak <pawlak_karolina@hotmail.com>, piotrus <bambelas@hotmail.com>, przemas <p_kielar@hotmail.com>, radek <rdrutis@rogers.com>, rafal <rjasinski@mindless.com>, rafal <rjasinski@uniserve.com>, “rob trumm.” <alesia666@voila.fr>, robaki <robaki@rogers.com>, robert <robucha@yahoo.com>, sacha <traumzeit@hotmail.com>, seweryn i ewa <sewerynr@hygrid.com>, sherry <denmansherry@hotmail.com>, slawek <pillreport@hotmail.com>, szczypa <sebaaniuk@rogers.com>, talluri <lee_talluri@hotmail.com>, trollu <trollfuture@poczta.onet.pl>, uncle seb <sexytracteur@hotmail.com>, vali <pacificasystema@yahoo.com>, margaret williams <mjnyland@hotmail.com>, wojtas <at-at@lycos.com>, wojtek 2 <boytek@rogers.com>, wojtek 3 <at-at@mailcity.com>
Subject: Fwd: FW: THE CROSS
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 16:03:09 -0800 (PST)
Note: forwarded message attached.
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From: Robert Pasiak <robucha@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: FW: THE CROSS
Date: December 13, 2005 at 11:41:42 PM EST
To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com, Dawid Bryzgalski <dawidcabal@yahoo.com>
Note: forwarded message attached.
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From: “Antoni Pasiak” <tatunio@hotmail.com>
Subject: FW: THE CROSS
Date: December 13, 2005 at 10:45:03 PM EST
To: lchmielewski@trebnet.com, paulinapasiak@sympatico.ca, robucha@yahoo.com, SKOLIM@GO2.PL, nowotnik@rogers.com
From: “Kwam D” <roseau93@hotmail.com>
To: roseau93@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: THE CROSS
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 14:56:32 +0000
From: “Kernita Allard” <kernita@hotmail.com>
To: sweetlikesuga2@hotmail.com, sweetramisha@msn.com, rohena_raw@hotmail.com, aluap123@hotmail.com, eedyhjj@hotmail.com, angelic2k8@hotmail.com, vizey@hotmail.com, vivianpascal@hotmail.com, A.A.venable@cpl.org, sunshine_daka@hotmail.com, amazinga51@hotmail.com, topmodel911@hotmail.com, tintin1970@hotmail.com, ally_babe10@hotmail.com, thinkyes@hotmail.com, thequeen1999@hotmail.com, thecocofield@hotmail.com, teach_16@hotmail.com, tambimm@hotmail.com, sweetlee_46@hotmail.com, sweetdarnelle@hotmail.com, sweetbecky38@hotmail.com, sweetback_charles@hotmail.com, stoney988@hotmail.com, nola58@hotmail.com, d_jaw@hotmail.com, humarok4@adelphia.net, simplydivine_3@hotmail.com, sherm17daw@hotmail.com, shax363@hotmail.com, shanikar81@hotmail.com, sexy_eyes8959@hotmail.com, roseyseverin25@hotmail.com, scotty_jr@hotmail.com, akskat@hotmail.com, sahibff@hotmail.com, roseau93@hotmail.com, uremeo@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: THE CROSS
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:18:17 +0000



 
Image by FlamingText.com
From: “KAREN LAYNE” <hortence76@msn.com>
To: kernita@hotmail.com, maxinelayne@hotmail.com, terrencelayne@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: THE CROSS
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 07:13:19 -0600

Karen Boyce-Layne
From: “Clunda Bruno” <clunda74@hotmail.com>
To: calex135@aol.com, cathyaubrey@hotmail.com, cosmasbain@hotmail.com, breadson27@hotmail.com, bruney15@hotmail.com, brunalda@hotmail.com, caramel_puss@hotmail.com, shasha2578@hotmail.com, proks15_@hotmail.com, chauerz_00@hotmail.com, chrishonore@yahoo.com, desirelarocque@hotmail.com, kayg17@hotmail.com, hortence76@msn.com, killafish14@hotmail.com, say_what_03@hotmail.com, marlky@hotmail.com, mrolle77@hotmail.com, ossie56@msn.com, pierrealjay@hotmail.com, lenalaurent@hotmail.com, jawanzasampson@hotmail.com, davs691@hotmail.com, superkakay@hotmail.com, winky1075@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: THE CROSS
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:41:07 -0500
From: Lanna Albert <lannalbert@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: Fw: THE CROSS
Date: September 24, 2005 at 3:22:59 PM EDT
To: micvan8@yahoo.com, Carla Caleb <carlagy2000@yahoo.com>, Jewel Mathieson <asofop2001@yahoo.com>, marcia morris <marcia_20us@yahoo.com>, Collette Louison <mstephens6046513@aol.com>, Samatha Fedee <princessfed2001@yahoo.com>, Collette Hall <samcol3@aol.com>, Neil Caynes <neil_caynes@cambior.com>, Noly Williams <noli_soyini@hotmail.com>
Note: forwarded message attached.
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From: Michelle_Johnson@cambior.com
Subject: Fw: THE CROSS
Date: September 23, 2005 at 8:50:21 AM EDT
To: winstonk2@hotmail.com
Michelle Johnson
Clerk –  Omai Bauxite Mining Inc.
Tel # 444-2881 / 2882 Ext. 2055
Email Michelle_Johnson@Cambior.Com
—– Forwarded by Michelle Johnson/OBC/Cambior on 09/23/05 09:48 AM —–


Subject:        THE CROSS 


- 

CROSS 
A young man was at the end of his rope, seeing no way out, he dropped to his knees in prayer “Lord, I can’t go on,” he said. “I have too heavy a cross to bear.” 

The Lord replied, “My son, if you can’t bear its weight, just place your cross inside this room. 

Then, open that other door and pick out any cross you wish.” 

The man was filled with relief and said, “Thank you Lord,” and he did as he was told. 

Upon entering the other room, he saw many crosses; some so large the tops were not visible. Then, he spotted a tiny cross leaning against a far wall. 

”I’d like that one, Lord,” he whispered. The Lord replied, “My son, that is the cross you just brought in.” 

When life’s problems seem overwhelming, it helps to look around and see what other people are coping with. You may consider yourself far more fortunate than you imagined. 

 
YOUR CROSS 

Whatever your cross 
Whatever your pain 
There will always be sunshine 
After the rain 

Perhaps you may stumble 
Perhaps even fall 
But God’s always there 
To help you through it all 

Funny how you can send a thousand “jokes” through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about passing it on. 

Funny, isn’t it, when you go to forward this message, how many on your buddy list will not receive it because you’re not sure they believe in anything? 

Funny? No! 

Sad, and thought-provoking… 

May God give you the strength and courage to pass this along to everyone on your email buddy list…. 

I JUST DID! 















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From: Sandra Karpetas <sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 14, 2005 at 4:31:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hopefully this’ll work…
http://rgbspecialprojects.blogspot.com/
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD the police reply to VANDU alert and we respond #2
Date: December 14, 2005 at 2:23:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am forwarding a few messages from the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users that I thought some of you may find of interest.
Howard
Begin forwarded message:
From: Ann Livingston <annlive@direct.ca>
Date: December 13, 2005 8:36:27 PM EST
Subject: the police reply to VANDU alert and we respond
FYI
we are looking at legal action
will keep you posted
love
Ann
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 13:00:48 -0800
To: <john.mckay@vancouver.ca
>
From: Ann Livingston <annlive@direct.ca>
Subject: Re: Your letter to Scott Thompson
Cc: Thompson Scott
Hello Inspector McKay
I’m not sure who at VANDU told you to arrest and charge people using drugs who would not use insite back in 2003.  It comes as a huge surprise to VANDU members and to the VANDU board of directors and staff.  We had well over 1000 members in 2003, most of whom live in the DTES of Vancouver, and we must insist that unless you heard this pro-arrest position directly from the VANDU board of directors or the VANDU staff, it is simply the opinion of that individual VANDU member.  We are interested in pursuing this if you can give us the minutes to meetings or agreements signed or the like, we can get to the bottom of this rumor.
I regret that you have misunderstood VANDU’s “position” on the insite and supervised consumption facilities in general.  Perhaps we can meet to clarify this to prevent future misunderstandings.  I hope you understand as it must be awkward for you if the opinion of an individual VPD officer is misunderstood as the “official VPD position”.
I did not in any way accuse the VPD of “fishing for warrants” at insite –in my e mail I state “…..the police have reversed a 2 year agreement to not attend at nonfatal drug overdoses and when they attend at the rare overdoses at Insite, they have checked other drug users using in the site for warrants.”
The fact that the VPD are going into insite for overdoses is bad enough and it is completely unnecessary but to check warrants at insite is unworkable.  The VPD has an “agreement” with even the Carnegie Community Center to NOT check warrants there.  Surely we can muster the same level of cooperation for insite.
VANDU stands firmly on the original “understanding” with the VP, that is: police will only come in when called by staff at insite or when in hot pursuit of a perp who has run into the site to hide.
Since people injecting at insite are supervised by professionals, they are unable to participate in “hotcapping” so it is even less necessary for police to attend at nonfatal OD’s there.
“Wanting the police to go away” is an odd position you say I have taken —
VANDU members, researchers, VCHA staff, VPD members, parents of drug users and concerned community members spent many long hours on committees and did much research to understand Vancouver’s extremely high rate of fatal illicit drug overdoses before pursuing the “no-police-at-nonfatal-OD’s-unless-called” policy.
This progressive policy was finally agreed to by the VPD after almost five years of discussion and was championed by VPD Inspector Ken Frail.
Many people describe being harassed, searched, arrested and even beaten by police at the scene of a drug overdose when they have called for medical help and as a result people may continue to make bad decisions at overdose scenes.  The advocates of the”no-police-at-nonfatal-OD’s-unless-called” policy are not advocating for criminals to get away with attempted murders but we understand the change of policy as a practical way to save lives and to encourage responsible behaviour of people at nonfatal OD scenes.
Those of us pushing for an end to the war on drug users are not self serving.  We are often people who do not use drugs ourselves.  We have children we are raising, often right in the DTES, and our homes, businesses and cars are also broken into by people who are desperately trying to get $ for their next fix.
We envision a community peace for Vancouverites when people addicted to a substance can get it prescribed to them and we begin to shut down the lucrative and large black market for stolen goods and heroin and cocaine and crystal meth.
We have seen other cities implement effective policies that have reduced public drug use and the open drug markets and have reduced the OD’s and the spread of blood borne pathogens in their communities.  The police in these cities have acted in cooperation with the public health officials, the front line outreach workers, the drug users and the courts in order to move forward.  We have not seen this continuing and consistent cooperation of the police in Vancouver that we need to move forward with progressive and necessary public health projects such as the supervised injection site.  This is unfortunate as we need the VPD’s cooperation to succeed.
We will continue to work with the front line police officers, the police brass, the police board, the VCHA board and staff and Health Canada until we ensure the health and safety of all Vancouverites.
As for the police who are undercover who are entering insite –Are you aware of this?  Who should we approach for more information on this?  Are they VPD or RCMP?  Do you support this police action?
Yours truly
Ann Livingston
Ann Livingston    cell 604 719 5313
Executive Program Director
Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users
VANDU
50 East Hastings St.
Vancouver BC V6A 1N1
604 683 6061
fax 604 683 6199
At 01:46 PM 12/12/2005, you wrote:
 Hello Ann:
It is with some interest that I read your letter to Scott Thompson and others abut the “police crackdown” in the DTES. I thought from our many meetings and discussions that you supported the 4 Pillars approach.  The last time I checked, Law Enforcement is one of those pillars.
In our meetings in 2003 with VANDU and other partners, VANDU originally wanted the Vancouver Police Department to charge those addicts who wouldn’t use the site. After 2 years of trying it our way we now believe that VANDU was right; and we should have been charging 2 years ago. I think it is a little late to change your story now.
In your email you state that the VPD are using the site to arrest addicts who have warrants outstanding. As I told you last week we ARE NOT using the SIS or any other facility in Vancouver to fish for warrants. I have advised Chris Buckner that your email is wrong in this regard.
I recognize that VANDU wants the police to go away. You have said that many times.  As I told you last week the Vancouver Police Department has a duty to protect all the citizens and we will do that.  We will attend overdoses to ensure that a proper investigation of a potential death occurs.  That is our mandate.  I am sure that this causes difficulty for the addicts that are present when the police arrive however we will do our job within the law.  As you clearly stated last week, the other addicts present at an overdose will not call the paramedics nor will they stay around to help the victim.  I can’t understand how a person would leave someone obviously in distress and potentially dying, on their own, and not call for help, or remain to assist their friend.  I guess the addiction precludes all natural instincts to help others who are in real trouble.
The Vancouver Police Department supports safe, secure, and structured housing and treatment for addicted people.  The VPD strongly supports a Prevention Pillar so that the children in Grade 3 don’t wind up where our addicts are now.  Instead of focusing completely on the problems of the addicts today; the VPD has to look into the future and work towards preventing the same fate for our children.  As a mother I am sure you would agree with that.
Finally, please remember that the addicts of the DTES and other communities have their addiction issues within the context of a larger community.  That larger community of residents, business owners and commuters are entitled to live and work in a safe environment. Your failure to recognize their rights is completely self-serving and your inaccurate description of the so-called “police crackdown” is evidence of your narrow point of view.
I think “Just say no to drugs” is a great mantra for those addicted and those who might become addicted in the future.
                                                                                                            John McKay
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD  VANDU alert #1
Date: December 14, 2005 at 2:20:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am forwarding this message and pdf attachment from the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users as they are having some problems with the police.
Howard
Begin forwarded message:
From: Ann Livingston <annlive@direct.ca>
Date: December 11, 2005 4:45:06 PM EST
Subject: VANDU alert
North America’s first and only sanctioned supervised injection site operation is being undermined with a misinformation campaign and direct harassment by the Vancouver Police Department (VPD)
The Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users (VANDU) has held two protest rallies to support the supervised injection site, Insite, and to criticize the inappropriate police actions.  The staff and administration at Insite has so far remained silent as have the researchers and public health officials.
Recently the VPD announced a crackdown on drug users using drugs in public stating that they are “supporting users to use Insite” but in fact they have flooded the 2 blocks surrounding the injection facility with plain clothes officers and uniformed officers on foot and on horseback and are arresting anyone know to be holding or using drugs.
In addition, the police have reversed a 2 year agreement to not attend at nonfatal drug overdoses and when they attend at the rare overdoses at Insite they have checked other drug users using in the site for warrants.
Most disturbing is news of undercover officers posing as drug users and entering the injection facility.  When spotted by VANDU members they are being harassed and loudly asked if they are police officers.  So far there has been no violence and the VPD has unofficially accused the “drug squad” of this activity so the RCMP may be also involved.
This sudden reversal of police policy violates a verbal agreement that was hammered out with the VPD two years ago at the opening of Insite specifically that police are to go into the supervised injection facility only when called to come by Insite staff  or in “hot pursuit” of a perp who runs into the facility to hide.
The supervised injection site has the capacity to supervise less than 5% of the injections taking place in the downtown east side (DTES) a 10 block area of Vancouver. The site is working at capacity with 700 injections per day out of an estimated 15,000 injections per day taking place in a ten block area of Vancouver’s downtown eastside.  The DTES is home to 12,000 people of whom 5,000 are people who use illicit drugs.
The site will not allow folks who smoke their H or C into the site to smoke even though the facility has a room set up for inhalation
The site will not allow assisted injections even if the person is blind or an amputee so these folks have been using in public all along and the additional police action will cause even more dangerous conditions for them causing rushed injections in filthy alleys etc
The Canadian HIV AIDS Legal Network has written a letter to Vancouver’s new mayor Sam Sullivan urging him to act to end the destructive and heavy handed actions of the police.  We urge others to send similar letters.  Their letter is posted on their web site and attached.
Just Say No to the War on Drug Users
love and solidarity
Ann
Ann Livingston    cell 604 719 5313
Executive Program Director
Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users
VANDU
50 East Hastings St.
Vancouver BC V6A 1N1
604 683 6061
fax 604 683 6199
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: December 14, 2005 at 1:08:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
(looking at you in shock and horror)
Young lady, that is NOT funny!!  You trying to scare people?  I have nightmares about moving to that… that……..
Excuse me I cannot even say it
Have to go lie down now, the shock has been so great.
 CK ;o)
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 15 December 2005 6:57 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal

Best way to remedy this problem is to immediately move your residence to USA!!! just kidding! hahahaha!!!
callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: December 14, 2005 at 12:57:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Best way to remedy this problem is to immediately move your residence to USA!!! just kidding! hahahaha!!!
callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: December 14, 2005 at 9:51:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You are right! They under invoiced the service. Should be much more than Euro 20.- (joke!!)
Euro20.- sounds honest. Even a single DHL or TNT from continent to continent costs Euro80-100.-
even for one single 2grams document!
Of course, in case they never ship it, it will be expensive.
But I thought that site only delivers to professionals!
b.r.
p.r.
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 13:41:01 +0000
Anyone had any problems ordering from www.africaphyto.com?
They charged me a massive 20 euros delivery just for 20g of rootbark. I went through with it because the site is recommended on www.ibogaine.co.uk and because the order form stated it would be delivered in 5 days. It’s now 10 days and I need to have it by this weekend in order to extract it by xmas.
I emailed them yesterday, but no reply.
Any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
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_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] www.africaphyto.com
Date: December 14, 2005 at 8:41:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Anyone had any problems ordering from www.africaphyto.com?
They charged me a massive 20 euros delivery just for 20g of rootbark. I went through with it because the site is recommended on www.ibogaine.co.uk and because the order form stated it would be delivered in 5 days. It’s now 10 days and I need to have it by this weekend in order to extract it by xmas.
I emailed them yesterday, but no reply.
Any thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
Buy now @ Tradingpost.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fad%2Eau%2Edoubleclick%2Enet%2Fclk%3B23850242%3B12217581%3Bw%3Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etradingpost%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Freferrer%3DnmsnHMetag&_t=11482&_r=emaildec05&_m=EXT
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
Date: December 14, 2005 at 8:28:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yes, you are right! Under history could trace back my internet surfing and it was this ibo…./maso…com site. ( did not notice the word “maso” )
regarding the date or year, did not see any reference.
——————————–
Member of the Bwiti religion seeks penfriends
Marie Madeleine Ngandi Bessala, a member of the Bwiti religion from Yaounde, Cameroun, would like to correspond with French-speaking persons with an interest in The Bwiti and the world at large.
Please write to:
Mlle Marie Madeleine Ngandi Bessala
s/c Mr Elouna Pierre
BP 1634 CRTV Yaounde
Cameroun
tel/fax +237 31.97.88
b.r.
p.r.
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 11:27:21 -0000
Was it www.ibogaine.co.uk/maso.htm ? I think the contact info may be out of
date, but I’ll check if she’s up for email these days.
Nick
> —–Original Message—–
> From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 14 December 2005 05:47
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
>
>
> since I never save my outgoing messages, I’m not sure whether I
> did post a
> mail informing you about a Bwiti girl/lady from Gabon who
> introduces herself
> as Bwiti and who is looking for a pen friend.
>
> A picture was available as well on that site.
>
> In case anyone interested, can look for it and mail the contact again.
>
> ( Preston, you are excluded from the invitation, because I’m
> sure, you and
> yr partner will do it. Christmas is near. )
>
> love
>
> P.R.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
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>
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>
>
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_________________________________________________________________
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
Date: December 14, 2005 at 6:27:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Was it www.ibogaine.co.uk/maso.htm ? I think the contact info may be out of
date, but I’ll check if she’s up for email these days.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: 14 December 2005 05:47
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
since I never save my outgoing messages, I’m not sure whether I
did post a
mail informing you about a Bwiti girl/lady from Gabon who
introduces herself
as Bwiti and who is looking for a pen friend.
A picture was available as well on that site.
In case anyone interested, can look for it and mail the contact again.
( Preston, you are excluded from the invitation, because I’m
sure, you and
yr partner will do it. Christmas is near. )
love
P.R.
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now!
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: December 14, 2005 at 5:09:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
No idea Rolland, they’re showing up here ok…. but the first one of Ron’s
was definitely empty and that’s what I was commenting on too.
kirsty
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 11:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Hi,
I have received 3 mails just now, 1 from Ron and 2 from captain Kirk. All of
them are empty ( except Matt’s forwarded mail dd 28.08.05 )
Hotmail adds a notifiication that it removed some information for
subscriber’s security. And that the content can be enabled at once.
But even when ‘enabling’ the content, nothing appears.
Anyone aware of what happend? related to the ‘bouncing’ symptom?
Thanks/rgds
p.r.
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:47:20 -0600
 —– Original Message —–
 From: matthew zielinski
 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:28 PM
 Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
 Anybody know if it airs in Canada?
—————————————————————————
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: December 14, 2005 at 5:00:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
I have received 3 mails just now, 1 from Ron and 2 from captain Kirk. All of them are empty ( except Matt’s forwarded mail dd 28.08.05 )
Hotmail adds a notifiication that it removed some information for subscriber’s security. And that the content can be enabled at once.
But even when ‘enabling’ the content, nothing appears.
Anyone aware of what happend? related to the ‘bouncing’ symptom?
Thanks/rgds
p.r.
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 02:47:20 -0600
 —– Original Message —–
 From: matthew zielinski
 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:28 PM
 Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
 Anybody know if it airs in Canada?
——————————————————————————
 Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT rons interesting but empty email lol
Date: December 14, 2005 at 4:06:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Was there something you were going to say Ron??
;o)
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 9:47 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Anybody know if it airs in Canada?
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: December 14, 2005 at 3:57:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Still waiting for it to show up here.
And man, what the hell? Do u read your emails at random? Lol
Kirk xx
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 9:47 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Anybody know if it airs in Canada?
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Date: December 14, 2005 at 3:47:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti on Going Tribal
Anybody know if it airs in Canada?
Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: December 14, 2005 at 3:23:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
what about the book ‘Le bois sacre – Initiation a l’iboga’ ? That one seems available, contrary to the first one i.e. Ngenza, out of stock.
b.r.
p.r.
From: laurentsazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 08:42:58 +0100
Hi all,
an another  BWITI books was published: ” NGENZA, cérémonie de la  connaissance” at the PRESSE DE LA RENAISSANCE(publisher) April 2004
by LAURENT SAZY and VINCENT RAVALEC
THE FIRST BWITI books with great colour pictures from inside the ritual.
An another books is on préparation!!
best to all
Laurent
Le 9 déc. 05, à 20:08, Nick Sandberg a écrit :
Hey Matthew,
If you can read French you could check out the following:
Péril Blanc, René Bureau
La Naissance à l’Envers, André Marie
Paroles d’un Enfant du Bwiti:  Les enseignements d’Iboga,   Laval-Jeantet, Marion
The last one is recent, the others probably out of print. In English?  Don’t know of much aside of Fernandez and some articles here and  there.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 December 2005 18:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Hi beautiful people
pls let me know of any books about the bwiti and iboga
all my searches turned a big 000000
i know about the one by fernandez but i cant even get that at my  local library….bitches!!!
love and all that good shit :]
matt
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.  /]=——————————————————————- –=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=——————————————————————- –=[/
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From: laurentsazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: December 14, 2005 at 2:42:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all,
an another  BWITI books was published: ” NGENZA, cérémonie de la connaissance” at the PRESSE DE LA RENAISSANCE(publisher) April 2004
by LAURENT SAZY and VINCENT RAVALEC
THE FIRST BWITI books with great colour pictures from inside the ritual.
An another books is on préparation!!
best to all
Laurent
Le 9 déc. 05, à 20:08, Nick Sandberg a écrit :
Hey Matthew,
If you can read French you could check out the following:
Péril Blanc, René Bureau
La Naissance à l’Envers, André Marie
Paroles d’un Enfant du Bwiti:  Les enseignements d’Iboga,  Laval-Jeantet, Marion
The last one is recent, the others probably out of print. In English? Don’t know of much aside of Fernandez and some articles here and there.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 December 2005 18:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Hi beautiful people
pls let me know of any books about the bwiti and iboga
all my searches turned a big 000000
i know about the one by fernandez but i cant even get that at my local library….bitches!!!
love and all that good shit :]
matt
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 14, 2005 at 2:31:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sorry Sandra that doesn’t show up on my end!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
Date: December 14, 2005 at 2:30:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
do not remember that post from you Pascal. Maybe you should post again.
Callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] BWITI PEN(GIRL)FRIEND
Date: December 14, 2005 at 12:47:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
since I never save my outgoing messages, I’m not sure whether I did post a mail informing you about a Bwiti girl/lady from Gabon who introduces herself as Bwiti and who is looking for a pen friend.
A picture was available as well on that site.
In case anyone interested, can look for it and mail the contact again.
( Preston, you are excluded from the invitation, because I’m sure, you and yr partner will do it. Christmas is near. )
love
P.R.
_________________________________________________________________
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From: Sandra Karpetas <sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 13, 2005 at 8:29:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
more info here:
http://rgbspecialprojects.blogspot.com/
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 13, 2005 at 6:59:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My daughter’s father and his partner are at a similar point by the sounds of
things…… um… maybe be thankful there aren’t 7 children running around
as well?….nah I know that doesn’t help at all does it lol.
All the best Preston.
Sending calming energies
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 12:52 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
This is a stressful time of year and you have been stressed and busy with
your books. Hang in there and don’t let depression get you right now. Do
something good and positive for yourself or for both of you if possible.
Please keep us informed of your situation. I am here if you have a need.<
Thanks Callie and all,
   Pretty much what I needed to read from everyone, encouraging words and
the like. It has been a very stressful year, neither of us making it much
easier on ourselves for some reason. So we take it out on one another in our
teeny LES tenement apartment, about 10 feet wide at widest point and 30 feet
long (if we’re lucky- that might be wishful thinking) from end to end.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Preston,
First let me say I am very sorry and feel your pain! I have never been good
in relationships and all the loves of my life I lost except for Charlie, my
present significant other, but I am his primary care giver and he would be
VERY foolish to boot me out!
Don’t panic. Do not make any rash decisions and encourage Vee to do the
same. Encourage her to take this slow. Sometimes we say and do things when
we aren’t feeling well that we deeply regret in the future. You all have
been together 9 years you say? Well, a couple of weeks to mull this split is
not asking to much. Encourage her to wait until after New Years before you
guys make a final break.
I also would discourage either of you if you are planning to separate. Maybe
a night or two apart but to move out would be too much too fast.
This is a stressful time of year and you have been stressed and busy with
your books. Hang in there and don’t let depression get you right now. Do
something good and positive for yourself or for both of you if possible.
Please keep us informed of your situation. I am here if you have a need.
Callie
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 13, 2005 at 6:55:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Callie and all,
  Pretty much what I needed to read from everyone, encouraging words and the like. It has been a very stressful year, neither of us making it much easier on ourselves for some reason. So we take it out on one another in our teeny LES tenement apartment, about 10 feet wide at widest point and 30 feet long (if we’re lucky- that might be wishful thinking) from end to end.
Maybe the relationship problems are more a result of the individual stresses you’re both going through? If that’s the case, maybe you two could get back together when you’ve worked on your own issues.
i mean, do you see there being problems in the relationship, other than what you both are going through separately?
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 13, 2005 at 6:55:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Because without the down, the up isn’t an up at all…
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 4:43 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
ups and downs, ups and downs.
I always feel stupid after writing something like that, but sometimes feel
that way anyway, so fire off a depressed note.
Still, ups and downs, they always suck. Why can’t we just always be up?
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
girlfriends too apparently.
Seems my just over 9 year long, best ever relationship is literally ending
as I write, to excuse a really bad but indavertant pun..
I am so sad, depressed, and don’t know what to do.
Wow, what a fuck up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Kirk wrote:
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having
an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses
POV..
Weird places……
ehehe… well, in my experience, if you want to stay away from places
that’ll kick you out for having an opinion, then you should stay away
from:
NA
AA
churches (particularly Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Mormon, and Catholic
ones)
high schools
the Congress of the United States
=)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 13, 2005 at 6:52:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This is a stressful time of year and you have been stressed and busy with your books. Hang in there and don’t let depression get you right now. Do something good and positive for yourself or for both of you if possible.
Please keep us informed of your situation. I am here if you have a need.<
Thanks Callie and all,
  Pretty much what I needed to read from everyone, encouraging words and the like. It has been a very stressful year, neither of us making it much easier on ourselves for some reason. So we take it out on one another in our teeny LES tenement apartment, about 10 feet wide at widest point and 30 feet long (if we’re lucky- that might be wishful thinking) from end to end.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Preston,
First let me say I am very sorry and feel your pain! I have never been good in relationships and all the loves of my life I lost except for Charlie, my present significant other, but I am his primary care giver and he would be VERY foolish to boot me out!
Don’t panic. Do not make any rash decisions and encourage Vee to do the same. Encourage her to take this slow. Sometimes we say and do things when we aren’t feeling well that we deeply regret in the future. You all have been together 9 years you say? Well, a couple of weeks to mull this split is not asking to much. Encourage her to wait until after New Years before you guys make a final break.
I also would discourage either of you if you are planning to separate. Maybe a night or two apart but to move out would be too much too fast.
This is a stressful time of year and you have been stressed and busy with your books. Hang in there and don’t let depression get you right now. Do something good and positive for yourself or for both of you if possible.
Please keep us informed of your situation. I am here if you have a need.
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 13, 2005 at 6:43:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ups and downs, ups and downs.
I always feel stupid after writing something like that, but sometimes feel that way anyway, so fire off a depressed note.
Still, ups and downs, they always suck. Why can’t we just always be up?
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
girlfriends too apparently.
Seems my just over 9 year long, best ever relationship is literally ending as I write, to excuse a really bad but indavertant pun..
I am so sad, depressed, and don’t know what to do.
Wow, what a fuck up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Kirk wrote:
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses POV……
Weird places…………….
ehehe… well, in my experience, if you want to stay away from places that’ll kick you out for having an opinion, then you should stay away from:
NA
AA
churches (particularly Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Mormon, and Catholic ones)
high schools
the Congress of the United States
=)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
Date: December 13, 2005 at 6:22:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Bruce’s thoughts on mixing ibogaine and nitrous seem pretty much my thoughts too.
But someone may enjoy it- I just can’t think who at the moment, or who might even think of it once under the influence of the ibogaine: “Hey, I think I’ll just stop a minute a take a hit of nitrous, boy that’ll be fun puking after that, mhhmmm.” Yep, I can imagine that, but not actually carrying through on mixing the two.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
LSD is a fun drug. Throw some laughing gas in and perhaps youll giggle and get more fucked up. For me, ibogaine was very disorientating and not the time to add anything else to increase the pain.
Bruce
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Off topic but cool! Check out Resonata – a Wave Machine: Play with Resonance
Date: December 13, 2005 at 5:17:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Resonata – a Wave Machine: Play with Resonance
This is very cool to play with!!
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
Date: December 13, 2005 at 5:06:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I owned a house once but I never had any money after that. Maybe they had
money once? Blew it all on addiction?
Who knows.
Sounds like their families were instrumental in keeping them in jail.
Nice place to detox. Yum yum.
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: Krista Vaughan [mailto:krista.vaughan@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 14 December 2005 10:52 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
I have to agree with this, nothing in the story makes any sense. If
you can afford a condo in Belize, then you can afford a plane ticket
to go to your condo and do whatever you want in perfect legality and
relative safety.
It sounds more like either someone who is in the middle of a
methamphetamine run and out of their mind at the time of questioning,
or someone who is being charged for guns and drugs and instead wants
to turn the whole thing into a ibogaine civil rights case. Unless they
made it all up, what ibogaine was found?
KV
On 12/13/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
When I read the thing from the Casper newspaper all I could think was, if
they have a condo in Belize, why didn’t they use their money to go out of
country for an ibo treatment.  I would bet that the feds are happy to have
anything on them if they were investigating them back in 2004 and couldn’t
pin anything else on them before now.
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
Date: December 13, 2005 at 4:51:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I have to agree with this, nothing in the story makes any sense. If
you can afford a condo in Belize, then you can afford a plane ticket
to go to your condo and do whatever you want in perfect legality and
relative safety.
It sounds more like either someone who is in the middle of a
methamphetamine run and out of their mind at the time of questioning,
or someone who is being charged for guns and drugs and instead wants
to turn the whole thing into a ibogaine civil rights case. Unless they
made it all up, what ibogaine was found?
KV
On 12/13/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
When I read the thing from the Casper newspaper all I could think was, if
they have a condo in Belize, why didn’t they use their money to go out of
country for an ibo treatment.  I would bet that the feds are happy to have
anything on them if they were investigating them back in 2004 and couldn’t
pin anything else on them before now.
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
Date: December 13, 2005 at 11:08:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
When I read the thing from the Casper newspaper all I could think was, if they have a condo in Belize, why didn’t they use their money to go out of country for an ibo treatment.  I would bet that the feds are happy to have anything on them if they were investigating them back in 2004 and couldn’t pin anything else on them before now.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 9:04 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
Rach, first off howya doing? I’ll be around the city next week for a month or so. I’d like to see you and Jeff. Now about this bust. I posted on the drug war list the other day, (I thought it was going here) but I am just pissed at the logic here, or lack thereof. By reading the story the DA involved in this seems proud that he stopped these people before they did some foolish shit like try and help themselves outta their addiction. I was joking that they had probably been offered Methadone allready. I guess I was right. “Here, you can have this drug that will addict you worse than the one you are allready addicted to, but it is government sanctioned so it is right”.  If I had the cash I would be in Casper right now and I would try and get these people to Amsterdam or somewhere they could get the help that they were seeking in the first place. I don’t think that they are a flight risk so why wouldn’t they be let out of jail until the trial? When I get back to Erie I’m gonna call my KY boy lawyer and see if he will help these people. He is addimit about Ibogaine and has a lot of friends in his bussiness who feel the same way. I hope I am too late and they are allready out of jail. Ibogaine cannot be denied. It is too logical.    Love and solidarity       Randy
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
Date: December 13, 2005 at 11:04:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Rach, first off howya doing? I’ll be around the city next week for a month or so. I’d like to see you and Jeff. Now about this bust. I posted on the drug war list the other day, (I thought it was going here) but I am just pissed at the logic here, or lack thereof. By reading the story the DA involved in this seems proud that he stopped these people before they did some foolish shit like try and help themselves outta their addiction. I was joking that they had probably been offered Methadone allready. I guess I was right. “Here, you can have this drug that will addict you worse than the one you are allready addicted to, but it is government sanctioned so it is right”.  If I had the cash I would be in Casper right now and I would try and get these people to Amsterdam or somewhere they could get the help that they were seeking in the first place. I don’t think that they are a flight risk so why wouldn’t they be let out of jail until the trial? When I get back to Erie I’m gonna call my KY boy lawyer and see if he will help these people. He is addimit about Ibogaine and has a lot of friends in his bussiness who feel the same way. I hope I am too late and they are allready out of jail. Ibogaine cannot be denied. It is too logical.    Love and solidarity       Randy
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [Ibogaine] the twelve steps
Date: December 13, 2005 at 10:07:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the twelve steps
by spiritualized
if you’ve got the money for a rehab cure
you ain’t got a problem you can’t afford
i was very nearly clean you know
cause i only had twelve steps to go
the only time i’m drink and drug free
is when i don’t have to pay for what i need
that’s rare indeed
if your willpower’s weak, temptation’s strong
lord knows how we’re gonna get along
and the worst thing about your kind of disease is
you know she can charge whatever she pleases
twenty eight days for thirteen grand
better get myself an insurance plan
she’s my man
i ain’t got to where i’m goin’ to
by hangin’ round with people like you
but then again i ain’t never got
anywhere i wanted to get to
i ain’t got to where i’m goin’ to
by hangin’ round with people who ain’t my friends
but then again i ain’t never got
anywhere i wanted in the end
if you’ve got the money for a rehab cure
you ain’t got a problem you can’t afford
i was very nearly clean you know
cause i only had twelve steps to go
the only time i’m drink and drug free
is when i get my drugs and drink for free
that’s for me
if you’re willpower’s weak, temptation’s strong
lord knows how you’re gonna get along
and i don’t think i’m gonna find jesus christ
so i’d rather spend my cash on vice
twenty eight days for thirteen grand
better go get myself an insurance plan
she’s my man
do some knitting, get some rest
group therapy gets me depressed
you might get banned if you relapse
they’ll take you back when you’ve got some cash
just as likely find inner peace
by buying the stuff from off the street
c’mon
come on
step one: kill the fun
step two: ain’t got a clue
step three: get in your tree
step four: get out the door
step five: get a life
step six: … you know
step seven: can’t remember seven
step eight: fuck being straight
step nine: get in your bed
step ten: in bed again
step eleven: in bed again
step twelve: go back to one and start, start all over again
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bwiti books
Date: December 13, 2005 at 12:47:35 AM EST
To: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
foll. 2 books available ( see the competitive prices!!better you write one as someone has suggested it)
1/ Bwiti: an Ethnography of the Religious Imagination in Africa
Fernandez, James
Princeton Univ Pr
Notre Prix: 888€ – 5824.90FF – 1042.50$
généralement expédié en 20 jours ( delivered in 20 days )
2/ Mepanga M’Eboga. Les Rites D’Eboga. Dictionnaire Rituel Du Bwiti Fang (Gabon)
Mary, André<!– Andre –>
Notre Prix: 151€ – 990.50FF – 177.27$
généralement expédié en 20 jours
P.S.: this book research site – from where I found the books – is specialised in old rare books. Some were printed in 16-1700 and are sold at US$50,000.- or above.
love
p.r.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Houts’ jailing in the Great State of Wyoming
Date: December 12, 2005 at 11:46:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Couple to be held in jail
Seeking admission to drug treatment program
A federal prosecutor and defense attorneys agreed on Thursday afternoon that a man and woman charged with conspiring to import an illegal drug need to begin an addiction treatment program as soon as possible.
They disagreed about whether Jack Brian Hout and Karen Sue Hout should be released from jail in the weeks it could take for them find space in a suitable program.
For more of this story, click on or type the URL below:
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/12/09/news/casper/63d98859d5a2fa44872570d2000aa162.txt
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 12, 2005 at 8:54:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I was wondering about this, too. First, it’s Casper, not Caspar, the related charges are obviously the main intent.
Vector Vector wrote:
Patrick I know you reposted this for Dana but I am wondering what this
is about. There is no other reporter or newspaper that has picked this
up, it’s Dana Beal quoting a story by Paul Direnzio. Both of who have I
admit been right before, but if this is for real is anybody in the drug
reform movement planning to do anything? This is a clear cut case where
someone is importing ibogaine to try to detox from drugs, the
theoretical reason most people want access to it within the US.
Dana?
.:vector:.
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@wiretap.com> wrote:
Dana’s mail is hosed at the moment.  He should be alive and unwell by
this weekend.
bl1p –>
Begin forwarded message:
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Date: December 8, 2005 1:21:39 PM EST
To: digital@phantom.com
Subject: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
by Paul DeRienzo
pdr.blogomat.com
A couple in Caspar, Wyoming was arrested by federal authorities and
charged in a multi-count indictment with conspiracy to import
Ibogaine from the Central American nation of Belize. It’s the first
Ibogaine related conspiracy bust in recent American history.
Ibogaine is a hallucinogenic drug isolated from the root-bark of a
plant known as Tabernanthe iboga that grows in the rain forests of
the West African nations of Cameroon and Gabon.
Ibogaine is not recognized as having any legitimate medicinal uses
under United States law and is illegal to use and possess here.
Ibogaine was made a schedule I drug in the early 1970s along with
LSD and other similar drugs. But in the 1980s an intrepid group of
former drug addicts and their supporters began to claim Ibogaine
had the almost magical ability to stop drug withdrawal symptoms and
reduce the craving to do drugs like heroin and cocaine.
In the years that followed thousands of US addicts were treated in
guerilla clinics located in countries where Ibogaine is legal such
as the Netherlands, St. Kitts, Canada, Panama, Israel and Belize.
Ibogaine is rarely provided in the United States, but on Friday
December 2, 2005 the US Attorney’s office in Caspar, Wyoming
announced the arrest of Jack and Karen Haut, also of Caspar.
According to Assistant US Attorney Kelley Rankin who spoke
exclusively with this reporter from the Dick Cheney Federal
Building in Caspar, the couple faces up to 20-years in prison for
the alleged Ibogaine conspiracy, use of a controlled substance and
an unspecified firearms offense. Rankin says no Ibogaine was ever
sent to the couple involved in the conspiracy charges. US
conspiracy laws make it illegal to plan a crime, even if the crime
is never committed.
Rankin added that the defendants were “trying to cure their
addiction,” and that “other addiction issues” were involved. He
specifically mentioned the addictive narcotic pain killer
hydrocodone and methadrine, a street drug also known as “speed” or
“crystal meth.’ Rankin refused to give more information about the
government’s charges. He said a preliminary hearing was scheduled
for 4 PM mountain time on Thursday, December 8.
pdr.blogomat.com
The Ibogaine Alternative
Can Ibogaine really be the miracle addiction cure?
by By Paul DeRienzo
Imagine a drug that could eliminate a scourge that impacts the
lives of more than three million Americans and more than a million
western Europeans – drug addiction – with one pill.
Ibogaine was isolated from the root-bark of a plant known as
Tabernanthe iboga that grows in a forested area of West Africa in
Cameroon and Gabon. In Africa the plant is central to a religion
known as Bwiti, one of the most resilient indigenous belief system
in Africa. An initiate into the religion must eat the iboga root to
induce intense visions and to “meet their ancestors.”
According to an African story, it was at the beginning of time when
a god tossed bits of a Pygmy he had hacked up onto the forest
floor. When the man’s widow found flowering plants growing from his
flesh, the god told her to eat the root.
John, an East Village squatter who traveled to Gabon with the Peace
Corps during the 1990s, became a follower of Bwiti (foreigners are
welcome to become initiated) after a ceremony that included
consuming what he said seemed like two pounds of sawdust. John told
me it was the most difficult experience of his life, but that the
psychedelic encounter changed him forever.
In the western world, the difficult process of consuming the active
ingredient Ibogaine has been made a lot easier. Today you can take
a capsule with Ibogaine, or even have it administered rectally; but
the 36-hour experience has never been easy and the drug is illegal
to possess in the United States.
Ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties were discovered – some might
say rediscovered – by a 19-year old drug experimenter named Howard
Lotsof while living with his parents in suburban New Jersey. A
precocious teen that had been experimenting with a multiplicity of
drugs, Lotsof had unwittingly become mildly hooked on heroin.
One day Lotsof was having breakfast with a friend who was active in
small underground LSD scene. He turned Lotsof on to a hit of
Ibogaine, but he warned, “It’s a 36-hour trip.” Lotsof held on to
the Ibogaine until right before going to an appointment with his
psychologist, where he described the trip to the astonished shrink:
“I was walking up a ladder leading to a � diving board over a
pool.
I was naked. My mother appeared beneath me with her legs open, I
was diving into her vagina.” Strangest of all, Lotsof awoke
refreshed after three hours of sleep without the urge to cop
heroin.
On October 16, 1966 LSD became illegal in California, and by 1970
Ibogaine was listed as a Schedule I drug along with acid, heroin
and cocaine. This meant the government declared the drug has no
medical value.
Howard Lotsof went on to be a filmmaker and put his Ibogaine
experience into the back of his mind. Ibogaine still had a spooky
aura, but was rarely, if ever, a part of the drug scene. Hunter S.
Thompson once joked the drug might have been used to cause Edmund
Muskie’s meltdown during the 1972 Democratic primaries.
Dirty needles and shooting up heroin signaled the arrival of AIDS,
and the deadly disease motivated a small group to gather around
Lotsof and begin a project to provide Ibogaine to addicts. Lotsof
and a companion traveled to Gabon and were granted a meeting with
the African country’s president Omar Bongo, who listened as the two
Americans pleaded their case for Gabon’s support. Bongo rose to the
occasion and declared that, “Ibogaine is Gabon’s gift to the
world.”
When they returned to America, they brought back several pounds of
Tabernanthe iboga root bark donated by Gabon, and a plan to start
treating addicts.
By 1986 Lotsof had started a company called NDA International. He
filed patents for Ibogaine to treat addictions including opium-
heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, alcohol and tobacco. NDA began the
long torturous process of getting a drug approved for humans in the
United States. It can cost as a much as a half-billion dollars to
bring a drug from the laboratory to the market, and the vast
majority of new drugs never make it through the process.
Dr. Stanley Glick at Albany Medical College was contracted to do
the first animal studies, showing that Ibogaine did in fact reduce
self-administration of both cocaine and heroin by mice. Soon
addicts were recruited, and treatments began in the Netherlands in
the 90s. Activist Robert Sisko, doing his own treatments in
Holland, started an organization of addicts called The
International Coalition for Addict Self-Help, working closely with
the Netherlands’ well-organized junkies. But the guerilla
treatments were ended when a patient being treated died. An
investigation by Dutch authorities didn’t find a direct connection
to the use of Ibogaine, but it slowed down research at a critical
phase.
In stepped Dr. Deborah Mash, Professor of Neurology at the
University of Miami School of Medicine. She had discovered coca-
ethylene, a by-product of using alcohol and cocaine that explained
an epidemic of cocaine overdose deaths in Miami. She first heard
about Ibogaine at a conference on addiction from an African-
American man, who asked her if she’d heard about something from
Africa that could be used to wean people off cocaine and heroin.
Mash admits to blowing off the suggestion, until a month later when
Mash attended a presentation by Stanley Glick on Ibogaine. As a
scientist Mash says she became “intrigued with wanting to know
exactly what the Ibogaine molecule was.” She began investigating
the drug with her team, Mash says, and she discovered that like
cocaine and booze, Ibogaine metabolizes in the body into a new drug
that’s really the cause of its anti-addiction benefits, a drug she
calls 12-hydroxyibogamine.
That discovery by Mash in Miami set the stage for a battle with
Lotsof over control of his patents. The strained relationship began
over Lotsof’s belief that his patents should cover all the active
compounds discovered relating to Ibogaine. At that juncture, Lotsof
got sick, and although he recovered was financially forced to sign
away control of his patents.
Mash went on in found one of the biggest and most successful
offshore Ibogaine treatment clinics on the Caribbean Island of St.
Kitts. Since then, independent Ibogaine clinics have opened up in
Mexico, Canada, and reopened in the Netherlands. Thousands have
been treated and studies have been published with more and more
evidence of Ibogaine’s value as an anti-addiction drug. The impetus
has come time and again from addicts themselves who are unhappy
with the alternatives: a life of addiction to heroin, methadone, or
dangerous and uncomfortable so-called “ultra-rapid-detox” methods.
Recent studies show that Ibogaine and its derivatives are effective
in reducing the self-administration of methamphetamine, and even
better at reducing the craving for nicotine then earlier studies.
Addiction, AIDS and the terrible destruction they visit on people
in the US and around the world remains unabated. Each month more
than 100,000 in the US alone try heroin for the first time and
nearly 60% of those first-time users will go on to develop a
serious heroin dependence problem that will follow them the rest of
their lives. More than 2 million Americans are addicted to cocaine.
Yet, despite the explosion of medical research and miracle drugs in
recent years, very little has been done medically to try and find a
“magic-bullet” to cure addiction. Only 10 drugs are being studied
by big pharma to treat addiction; in comparison, 400 drugs are
currently being studied to treat breast cancer. Not surprisingly,
it’s been the addicts themselves that have had to step up and
provide the impetus to find a cure.
————–
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 12, 2005 at 8:18:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Patrick I know you reposted this for Dana but I am wondering what this
is about. There is no other reporter or newspaper that has picked this
up, it’s Dana Beal quoting a story by Paul Direnzio. Both of who have I
admit been right before, but if this is for real is anybody in the drug
reform movement planning to do anything? This is a clear cut case where
someone is importing ibogaine to try to detox from drugs, the
theoretical reason most people want access to it within the US.
Dana?
.:vector:.
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@wiretap.com> wrote:
Dana’s mail is hosed at the moment.  He should be alive and unwell by
this weekend.
bl1p –>
Begin forwarded message:
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Date: December 8, 2005 1:21:39 PM EST
To: digital@phantom.com
Subject: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
by Paul DeRienzo
pdr.blogomat.com
A couple in Caspar, Wyoming was arrested by federal authorities and
charged in a multi-count indictment with conspiracy to import
Ibogaine from the Central American nation of Belize. It’s the first
Ibogaine related conspiracy bust in recent American history.
Ibogaine is a hallucinogenic drug isolated from the root-bark of a
plant known as Tabernanthe iboga that grows in the rain forests of
the West African nations of Cameroon and Gabon.
Ibogaine is not recognized as having any legitimate medicinal uses
under United States law and is illegal to use and possess here.
Ibogaine was made a schedule I drug in the early 1970s along with
LSD and other similar drugs. But in the 1980s an intrepid group of
former drug addicts and their supporters began to claim Ibogaine
had the almost magical ability to stop drug withdrawal symptoms and
reduce the craving to do drugs like heroin and cocaine.
In the years that followed thousands of US addicts were treated in
guerilla clinics located in countries where Ibogaine is legal such
as the Netherlands, St. Kitts, Canada, Panama, Israel and Belize.
Ibogaine is rarely provided in the United States, but on Friday
December 2, 2005 the US Attorney’s office in Caspar, Wyoming
announced the arrest of Jack and Karen Haut, also of Caspar.
According to Assistant US Attorney Kelley Rankin who spoke
exclusively with this reporter from the Dick Cheney Federal
Building in Caspar, the couple faces up to 20-years in prison for
the alleged Ibogaine conspiracy, use of a controlled substance and
an unspecified firearms offense. Rankin says no Ibogaine was ever
sent to the couple involved in the conspiracy charges. US
conspiracy laws make it illegal to plan a crime, even if the crime
is never committed.
Rankin added that the defendants were “trying to cure their
addiction,” and that “other addiction issues” were involved. He
specifically mentioned the addictive narcotic pain killer
hydrocodone and methadrine, a street drug also known as “speed” or
“crystal meth.’ Rankin refused to give more information about the
government’s charges. He said a preliminary hearing was scheduled
for 4 PM mountain time on Thursday, December 8.
pdr.blogomat.com
The Ibogaine Alternative
Can Ibogaine really be the miracle addiction cure?
by By Paul DeRienzo
Imagine a drug that could eliminate a scourge that impacts the
lives of more than three million Americans and more than a million
western Europeans – drug addiction – with one pill.
Ibogaine was isolated from the root-bark of a plant known as
Tabernanthe iboga that grows in a forested area of West Africa in
Cameroon and Gabon. In Africa the plant is central to a religion
known as Bwiti, one of the most resilient indigenous belief system
in Africa. An initiate into the religion must eat the iboga root to
induce intense visions and to “meet their ancestors.”
According to an African story, it was at the beginning of time when
a god tossed bits of a Pygmy he had hacked up onto the forest
floor. When the man’s widow found flowering plants growing from his
flesh, the god told her to eat the root.
John, an East Village squatter who traveled to Gabon with the Peace
Corps during the 1990s, became a follower of Bwiti (foreigners are
welcome to become initiated) after a ceremony that included
consuming what he said seemed like two pounds of sawdust. John told
me it was the most difficult experience of his life, but that the
psychedelic encounter changed him forever.
In the western world, the difficult process of consuming the active
ingredient Ibogaine has been made a lot easier. Today you can take
a capsule with Ibogaine, or even have it administered rectally; but
the 36-hour experience has never been easy and the drug is illegal
to possess in the United States.
Ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties were discovered – some might
say rediscovered – by a 19-year old drug experimenter named Howard
Lotsof while living with his parents in suburban New Jersey. A
precocious teen that had been experimenting with a multiplicity of
drugs, Lotsof had unwittingly become mildly hooked on heroin.
One day Lotsof was having breakfast with a friend who was active in
small underground LSD scene. He turned Lotsof on to a hit of
Ibogaine, but he warned, “It’s a 36-hour trip.” Lotsof held on to
the Ibogaine until right before going to an appointment with his
psychologist, where he described the trip to the astonished shrink:
“I was walking up a ladder leading to a � diving board over a
pool.
I was naked. My mother appeared beneath me with her legs open, I
was diving into her vagina.” Strangest of all, Lotsof awoke
refreshed after three hours of sleep without the urge to cop
heroin.
On October 16, 1966 LSD became illegal in California, and by 1970
Ibogaine was listed as a Schedule I drug along with acid, heroin
and cocaine. This meant the government declared the drug has no
medical value.
Howard Lotsof went on to be a filmmaker and put his Ibogaine
experience into the back of his mind. Ibogaine still had a spooky
aura, but was rarely, if ever, a part of the drug scene. Hunter S.
Thompson once joked the drug might have been used to cause Edmund
Muskie’s meltdown during the 1972 Democratic primaries.
Dirty needles and shooting up heroin signaled the arrival of AIDS,
and the deadly disease motivated a small group to gather around
Lotsof and begin a project to provide Ibogaine to addicts. Lotsof
and a companion traveled to Gabon and were granted a meeting with
the African country’s president Omar Bongo, who listened as the two
Americans pleaded their case for Gabon’s support. Bongo rose to the
occasion and declared that, “Ibogaine is Gabon’s gift to the
world.”
When they returned to America, they brought back several pounds of
Tabernanthe iboga root bark donated by Gabon, and a plan to start
treating addicts.
By 1986 Lotsof had started a company called NDA International. He
filed patents for Ibogaine to treat addictions including opium-
heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, alcohol and tobacco. NDA began the
long torturous process of getting a drug approved for humans in the
United States. It can cost as a much as a half-billion dollars to
bring a drug from the laboratory to the market, and the vast
majority of new drugs never make it through the process.
Dr. Stanley Glick at Albany Medical College was contracted to do
the first animal studies, showing that Ibogaine did in fact reduce
self-administration of both cocaine and heroin by mice. Soon
addicts were recruited, and treatments began in the Netherlands in
the 90s. Activist Robert Sisko, doing his own treatments in
Holland, started an organization of addicts called The
International Coalition for Addict Self-Help, working closely with
the Netherlands’ well-organized junkies. But the guerilla
treatments were ended when a patient being treated died. An
investigation by Dutch authorities didn’t find a direct connection
to the use of Ibogaine, but it slowed down research at a critical
phase.
In stepped Dr. Deborah Mash, Professor of Neurology at the
University of Miami School of Medicine. She had discovered coca-
ethylene, a by-product of using alcohol and cocaine that explained
an epidemic of cocaine overdose deaths in Miami. She first heard
about Ibogaine at a conference on addiction from an African-
American man, who asked her if she’d heard about something from
Africa that could be used to wean people off cocaine and heroin.
Mash admits to blowing off the suggestion, until a month later when
Mash attended a presentation by Stanley Glick on Ibogaine. As a
scientist Mash says she became “intrigued with wanting to know
exactly what the Ibogaine molecule was.” She began investigating
the drug with her team, Mash says, and she discovered that like
cocaine and booze, Ibogaine metabolizes in the body into a new drug
that’s really the cause of its anti-addiction benefits, a drug she
calls 12-hydroxyibogamine.
That discovery by Mash in Miami set the stage for a battle with
Lotsof over control of his patents. The strained relationship began
over Lotsof’s belief that his patents should cover all the active
compounds discovered relating to Ibogaine. At that juncture, Lotsof
got sick, and although he recovered was financially forced to sign
away control of his patents.
Mash went on in found one of the biggest and most successful
offshore Ibogaine treatment clinics on the Caribbean Island of St.
Kitts. Since then, independent Ibogaine clinics have opened up in
Mexico, Canada, and reopened in the Netherlands. Thousands have
been treated and studies have been published with more and more
evidence of Ibogaine’s value as an anti-addiction drug. The impetus
has come time and again from addicts themselves who are unhappy
with the alternatives: a life of addiction to heroin, methadone, or
dangerous and uncomfortable so-called “ultra-rapid-detox” methods.
Recent studies show that Ibogaine and its derivatives are effective
in reducing the self-administration of methamphetamine, and even
better at reducing the craving for nicotine then earlier studies.
Addiction, AIDS and the terrible destruction they visit on people
in the US and around the world remains unabated. Each month more
than 100,000 in the US alone try heroin for the first time and
nearly 60% of those first-time users will go on to develop a
serious heroin dependence problem that will follow them the rest of
their lives. More than 2 million Americans are addicted to cocaine.
Yet, despite the explosion of medical research and miracle drugs in
recent years, very little has been done medically to try and find a
“magic-bullet” to cure addiction. Only 10 drugs are being studied
by big pharma to treat addiction; in comparison, 400 drugs are
currently being studied to treat breast cancer. Not surprisingly,
it’s been the addicts themselves that have had to step up and
provide the impetus to find a cure.
————–
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 12, 2005 at 2:58:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston,
First let me say I am very sorry and feel your pain! I have never been good in relationships and all the loves of my life I lost except for Charlie, my present significant other, but I am his primary care giver and he would be VERY foolish to boot me out!
Don’t panic. Do not make any rash decisions and encourage Vee to do the same. Encourage her to take this slow. Sometimes we say and do things when we aren’t feeling well that we deeply regret in the future. You all have been together 9 years you say? Well, a couple of weeks to mull this split is not asking to much. Encourage her to wait until after New Years before you guys make a final break.
I also would discourage either of you if you are planning to separate. Maybe a night or two apart but to move out would be too much too fast.
This is a stressful time of year and you have been stressed and busy with your books. Hang in there and don’t let depression get you right now. Do something good and positive for yourself or for both of you if possible.
Please keep us informed of your situation. I am here if you have a need.
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 12, 2005 at 1:08:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ohhhh Preston :o(
I’m really sad to hear that
Hang in there man
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2005 5:49 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
girlfriends too apparently.
Seems my just over 9 year long, best ever relationship is literally ending
as I write, to excuse a really bad but indavertant pun..
I am so sad, depressed, and don’t know what to do.
Wow, what a fuck up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Kirk wrote:
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having
an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses
POV..
Weird places……
ehehe… well, in my experience, if you want to stay away from places
that’ll kick you out for having an opinion, then you should stay away
from:
NA
AA
churches (particularly Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Mormon, and Catholic
ones)
high schools
the Congress of the United States
=)
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Way off topic-Adult snowball fight!
Date: December 12, 2005 at 1:05:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You know how every Winter we have everybody send
the snowball e-mail thing out to everybody. Well this is

    paybacks for all that crap they have sent out to me.
PS  Don’t send it back to me!!!!
~You have just been hit with a snow ball!~
It’s the start of…..
Snow Ball Fight  2005!!
One rule to this game….
You can NOT hit someone who has already hit you!
Now…
go out there and get as many people as you can,
before they get you!
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 12, 2005 at 11:48:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
girlfriends too apparently.
Seems my just over 9 year long, best ever relationship is literally ending as I write, to excuse a really bad but indavertant pun..
I am so sad, depressed, and don’t know what to do.
Wow, what a fuck up.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Kirk wrote:
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses POV……
Weird places…………….
ehehe… well, in my experience, if you want to stay away from places that’ll kick you out for having an opinion, then you should stay away from:
NA
AA
churches (particularly Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Mormon, and Catholic ones)
high schools
the Congress of the United States
=)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Rachel Saidac” <rsaidac@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
Date: December 12, 2005 at 10:56:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I dont know about nitrous and ibogaine. Or Lsd and nitrous. But Lsd and amyl nitrite (poppers, rush) is incredible. a whiff of that starts your whole trip over again its crazy. but do some research first, cause it has some strange sexual side effects…
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 08:17:40 +000I 0
Anyone have any experience of using nitrous oxide (laughing gas) in conjunction with ibogaine? When I was younger I’d occasionally use nitrous oxide together with LSD and it deepens the experience considerably, as well as helps bring it on.
Any experiences or informed thoughts?
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:46:50 -0000
There’s a band in the UK that are crossover Celtic / Camerounian pygmy
“baka” music – called Baka Beyond. Might be nice.
http://www.baka.co.uk/bakab/
Nick
> —–Original Message—–
> From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
> Sent: 10 December 2005 21:46
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
>
>
> Vivaldi might be ok, depending on you.
>
> I think it can be nice to have a driving beat for the first 30
> minutes or so of onset, to get things moving and announce your
> arrival in the spirit world. Then tapering down to meditative at
> the end. Mbira music is a bit like Bwiti, and the best mbira cd
> I’ve heard is Masters of the Mbira. Also Jali Musa Jawara for the
> later long hours of meditation. Probably Tibetan chants would be
> good too, but I haven’t any experience.
>
> I recently found a huge site for peyote music:
>
>   http://www.canyonrecords.com
>
> But haven’t tried listening to any on iboga. Bulgarian Women’s
> Choir, the Chant cd.. my tastes are ethnic, but so is Bwiti 🙂
>
>
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:11:06 -0800 Tuxedo Machine
> <tuxmachine@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I’m taking the plunge soon, wondering how important is it to have
> >music
> >playing throughout the ibogaine experience?
> >
> >Any recommendations? Could I just listen to Vivaldi or something
> >or is that
> >too fast and dramatic?
> >
> >I’ve heard some people listen to Bwiti drumming, can anyone help
> >me out with
> >that?
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Tux
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads!
> >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=6
>
> >67&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startso
>
> >mething
> >
> >
> >
> >  /]=————————————————————–
>
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> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >  \]=————————————————————–
>
> >——-=[/
>
>
>
> Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email,
> no account required
> http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
>
> Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
> https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
>
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
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>
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>
>
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_________________________________________________________________
ASUS M5 Ultra-slim lightweight is Now $1999 (was $2,999)  http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Easus%2Ecom%2Eau%2F&_t=752129232&_r=Hotmail_tagline_23Nov05&_m=EXT
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
Date: December 12, 2005 at 9:22:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Please tell us about your experience Bruce.  I knew you were planning the trip but didn’t realize you had already gone.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 5:43 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
LSD is a fun drug. Throw some laughing gas in and perhaps youll giggle and get more fucked up. For me, ibogaine was very disorientating and not the time to add anything else to increase the pain.
Bruce
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
Date: December 12, 2005 at 7:42:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LSD is a fun drug. Throw some laughing gas in and perhaps youll giggle and get more fucked up. For me, ibogaine was very disorientating and not the time to add anything else to increase the pain.
Bruce
From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Nitrous Oxide
Date: December 12, 2005 at 3:17:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Anyone have any experience of using nitrous oxide (laughing gas) in conjunction with ibogaine? When I was younger I’d occasionally use nitrous oxide together with LSD and it deepens the experience considerably, as well as helps bring it on.
Any experiences or informed thoughts?
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 23:46:50 -0000
There’s a band in the UK that are crossover Celtic / Camerounian pygmy
“baka” music – called Baka Beyond. Might be nice.
http://www.baka.co.uk/bakab/
Nick
> —–Original Message—–
> From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
> Sent: 10 December 2005 21:46
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
>
>
> Vivaldi might be ok, depending on you.
>
> I think it can be nice to have a driving beat for the first 30
> minutes or so of onset, to get things moving and announce your
> arrival in the spirit world. Then tapering down to meditative at
> the end. Mbira music is a bit like Bwiti, and the best mbira cd
> I’ve heard is Masters of the Mbira. Also Jali Musa Jawara for the
> later long hours of meditation. Probably Tibetan chants would be
> good too, but I haven’t any experience.
>
> I recently found a huge site for peyote music:
>
>   http://www.canyonrecords.com
>
> But haven’t tried listening to any on iboga. Bulgarian Women’s
> Choir, the Chant cd.. my tastes are ethnic, but so is Bwiti 🙂
>
>
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:11:06 -0800 Tuxedo Machine
> <tuxmachine@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I’m taking the plunge soon, wondering how important is it to have
> >music
> >playing throughout the ibogaine experience?
> >
> >Any recommendations? Could I just listen to Vivaldi or something
> >or is that
> >too fast and dramatic?
> >
> >I’ve heard some people listen to Bwiti drumming, can anyone help
> >me out with
> >that?
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Tux
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads!
> >http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=6
>
> >67&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startso
>
> >mething
> >
> >
> >
> >  /]=————————————————————–
>
> >——-=[\
> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >  \]=————————————————————–
>
> >——-=[/
>
>
>
> Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email,
> no account required
> http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
>
> Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
> https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
>
>
>
>
> /]=—————————————————————
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas lights on his home?
Date: December 11, 2005 at 10:23:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Very cool.
Do you know whose house that is?
One of my first thoughts after thinking, “Hey, that’s pretty neat,” was, “gosh, that must drive the neighbors crazy,
and then when it was over I thought, “how many times a night does that play I wonder?”
;-))
Thanks Callie.
Peace and love,
Preston
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bah Humbug!!!
Date: December 11, 2005 at 7:16:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Bah Humbug

A Christmas Story

 ‘Twas the night before Christmas–Old Santa was pissed.
 He cussed out the elves and threw down his list.
 Miserable little brats, ungrateful little jerks.
 I have a good mind to scrap the whole works!

 I’ve busted my ass for damn near a year,
 Instead of “Thanks Santa”–what do I hear?
 The old lady bitches cause I work late at night.
The elves want more money–The reindeer all fight.

 Rudolph got drunk and goosed all the maids.
 Donner is pregnant and Vixen has AIDS.
And just when I thought that things would get better
 Those assholes from the IRS sent me a letter,
 They say I owe taxes–if that ain’t damn funny
 Who the hell ever sent Santa Claus any money?

 And the kids these days–they all are the pits
 They want the impossible–Those mean little shits
 I spent a whole year making wagons and sleds
Assembling dolls…Their arms, legs and heads
I made a ton of yo yo’s–No request for them,
 They want computers and robots…they think – I’m IBM!

Flying through the air…dodging the trees
Falling down chimneys and skinning my knees
 I’m quitting this job there’s just no enjoyment
 I’ll sit on my fat ass and draw unemployment.

 There’s no Christmas this year now you know the reason,
 I found me a blonde. I’m going SOUTH for the season


 
Laughter is the Best Medicine
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: December 11, 2005 at 5:21:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:47:31 PM Central Standard Time, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:
http://www.baka.co.uk/bakab/
I really like the music I heard that was available on their website Nick! Thanks for the link!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas lights…
Date: December 11, 2005 at 5:13:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, Thanks! I didn’t realize it would be a problem. I just figured those who didn’t want to open, wouldn’t open it! But thanks for the link!
Callie
From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas lights on his home?
Date: December 11, 2005 at 1:41:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for putting that up, Callie.  It’s wonderful.
ann
think@francomm.com
Enjoy!! This is not a virus! It is magnificent!!
Callie
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 11, 2005 at 1:39:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics that is based on a teleconference that included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie Holland and I.  Let me know what you think?
great article howard, and just in time to share with the family for chanukah =)
(i.e. look mom, i’m not crazy for wanting to research this… look at all these other good jewish boys and girls who do….eheh)
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas lights on his home?
Date: December 11, 2005 at 1:05:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Callie
I know you are going to catch flak for sending this sized attachment,
although it doesn’t phase me, so might I suggest in the future you can share
large files with the mailing lists using:
http://rapidshare.de/
Matt
—–Original Message—–
From: calliemimosa@aol.com [mailto:calliemimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 10:01 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas
lights on his home?
Enjoy!! This is not a virus! It is magnificent!!
Callie
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: calliemimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: What do you get when a rock producer puts Christmas lights on his home?
Date: December 11, 2005 at 12:01:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Enjoy!! This is not a virus! It is magnificent!!
Callie
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Naltrexone
Date: December 11, 2005 at 8:10:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Callie and Jon,
                              I had a feeling it would have been
discused.  I just happened to come across some articles that mentioned
it being used in very low doses (3mg) to help combat other ailments
and improving the immune system, or to ease compulsive behaviour.
Luke
On 12/10/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
Luke, we all just discussed this last few days. Check back on your Ibogaine
e-mails of past couple of weeks.
I think all concluded that it does not curb cravings and makes addicts go
into immediate, severe, harsh, painful withdrawal when ingested and should
be avoided like the plague!!
Callie
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Access to Ibogaine in South Africa?
Date: December 11, 2005 at 5:35:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Daniel Liebermans sister Lynn did work with  it in SA.
Unfortunately I lost her email, Nick Sandberg might  know have since she attanded the 2002 conference in the UK.
Henk
Dwight Muller wrote:
Hi all of you!
I have just joined the list after watching the Ibogaine documentary ‘Rite of Passage’. My friend and i were amazed that this substance has been known by western science since the sixties yet it seems to be totally unavailable (infact illegal?) despite what seems to be its miraculous ability to release one from addictive behaviourial tendencies and facilitating the resolution of deep traumas. We are in Cape Town, South Africa and are very keen to try the substance in an effort to deal with cannabis dependancy and a general tendency toward addictive, obsessive behaviour but so far have drawn a blank in finding a source for Ibogaine. Could anyone help us in locating a supplier or therapists here in South Africa?
many thanks
Dwight
‘It is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a sick society.’
– Krishnamurti –
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 11, 2005 at 5:24:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Usually, if you try to search for a concrete pdf file in google, there is possibility to view HTML version of the file. Try it, seems to work well. 2005-nov-drugs.pdf file was not available though.. =(
-fanyz
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Předmět: RE: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and
Politics
Datum: 11.12.2005 01:10:09
—————————————-
Lol not a good idea, knowing Matt’s computer, it could very well kill it!!
Hahahah!!
Get a new one matt!!!
Lol
K 😉
 _____
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2005 1:05 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and
Politics
Matt,
go to google.com and search for a “free adobe reader”.  Download the program
and you should then be able to read pdf files.  Howard
In a message dated 12/10/05 2:47:23 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
Can anybody paste and copy it for me as my comp is very slow and i cant open
pdf files….
thanks in advance
Love
m
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and
Politics
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:42:34 EST
Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A Discussion about
Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics that is based on a teleconference
that included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie Holland and I.  Let
me know what you think?
Howard
http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
=
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t hit santa
Date: December 11, 2005 at 5:24:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
http://www.elfmovie.com/swf/snowball_fight/index.html
Howard, years ago you mailed a  link to a wonderful cartoon like thing about a man going to A Hoffman for therapy, after
which his lsd experience was beautifully visualized, do you still know the link.
I have not been able to find it.
Henk
From: Henk <knehnav@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: December 11, 2005 at 5:16:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Some more Baka:
To order music:
 under  #7 on this page:   http://www.vpro.nl/programma/dewandelendetak/afleveringen/120548/
and at the bottom of this page: http://www.vpro.nl/programma/dewandelendetak/afleveringen/2347954/items/2390115/.
The Baka both live in Camaroon and Gabon,  beautiful people, even their normal talking is music.
I do have a pretty old cassette with Baka music, could be copied if really interrested.
Henk
Nick Sandberg wrote:
There’s a band in the UK that are crossover Celtic / Camerounian pygmy
“baka” music – called Baka Beyond. Might be nice.
http://www.baka.co.uk/bakab/
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 10 December 2005 21:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Vivaldi might be ok, depending on you.
I think it can be nice to have a driving beat for the first 30
minutes or so of onset, to get things moving and announce your
arrival in the spirit world. Then tapering down to meditative at
the end. Mbira music is a bit like Bwiti, and the best mbira cd
I’ve heard is Masters of the Mbira. Also Jali Musa Jawara for the
later long hours of meditation. Probably Tibetan chants would be
good too, but I haven’t any experience.
I recently found a huge site for peyote music:
  http://www.canyonrecords.com
But haven’t tried listening to any on iboga. Bulgarian Women’s
Choir, the Chant cd.. my tastes are ethnic, but so is Bwiti 🙂
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:11:06 -0800 Tuxedo Machine
<tuxmachine@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m taking the plunge soon, wondering how important is it to have
music
playing throughout the ibogaine experience?
Any recommendations? Could I just listen to Vivaldi or something
or is that
too fast and dramatic?
I’ve heard some people listen to Bwiti drumming, can anyone help
me out with
that?
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads!
http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=6
67&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startso
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Naltrexone
Date: December 11, 2005 at 1:19:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
…like a plague, unless yr body is 100% free of any opiate traces.
some doctors insist on waiting 2 months before starting naltrexone treatment.
P.R.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Naltrexone
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 17:13:22 EST
Luke, we all just discussed this last few days. Check back on your Ibogaine
e-mails of past couple of weeks.
I think all concluded that it does not curb cravings and makes addicts go
into immediate, severe, harsh, painful withdrawal when ingested and should be
avoided like the plague!!
Callie
_________________________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] don’t hit santa
Date: December 10, 2005 at 8:01:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.elfmovie.com/swf/snowball_fight/index.html
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 10, 2005 at 7:08:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lol not a good idea, knowing Matt’s computer, it could very well kill it!!
Hahahah!!
Get a new one matt!!!
Lol
K 😉
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2005 1:05 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Matt,

go to google.com and search for a “free adobe reader”.  Download the program and you should then be able to read pdf files.  Howard

In a message dated 12/10/05 2:47:23 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:

Can anybody paste and copy it for me as my comp is very slow and i cant open pdf files….
thanks in advance
Love
m


From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:42:34 EST

Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics that is based on a teleconference that included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie Holland and I.  Let me know what you think?

Howard


http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf

Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org



=
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 10, 2005 at 7:05:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt,
go to google.com and search for a “free adobe reader”.  Download the program and you should then be able to read pdf files.  Howard
In a message dated 12/10/05 2:47:23 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
Can anybody paste and copy it for me as my comp is very slow and i cant open pdf files….
thanks in advance
Love
m
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:42:34 EST
Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics that is based on a teleconference that included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie Holland and I.  Let me know what you think?
Howard
http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
=
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: December 10, 2005 at 6:46:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
There’s a band in the UK that are crossover Celtic / Camerounian pygmy
“baka” music – called Baka Beyond. Might be nice.
http://www.baka.co.uk/bakab/
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 10 December 2005 21:46
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Vivaldi might be ok, depending on you.
I think it can be nice to have a driving beat for the first 30
minutes or so of onset, to get things moving and announce your
arrival in the spirit world. Then tapering down to meditative at
the end. Mbira music is a bit like Bwiti, and the best mbira cd
I’ve heard is Masters of the Mbira. Also Jali Musa Jawara for the
later long hours of meditation. Probably Tibetan chants would be
good too, but I haven’t any experience.
I recently found a huge site for peyote music:
 http://www.canyonrecords.com
But haven’t tried listening to any on iboga. Bulgarian Women’s
Choir, the Chant cd.. my tastes are ethnic, but so is Bwiti 🙂
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:11:06 -0800 Tuxedo Machine
<tuxmachine@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m taking the plunge soon, wondering how important is it to have
music
playing throughout the ibogaine experience?
Any recommendations? Could I just listen to Vivaldi or something
or is that
too fast and dramatic?
I’ve heard some people listen to Bwiti drumming, can anyone help
me out with
that?
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads!
http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=6
67&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startso
mething
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Naltrexone
Date: December 10, 2005 at 5:30:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
Luke, we all just discussed this last few days. Check back on your Ibogaine e-mails of past couple of weeks.
I think all concluded that it does not curb cravings and makes addicts go into immediate, severe, harsh, painful withdrawal when ingested and should be avoided like the plague!!
Callie
i believe there is some evidence that naltrexone can help with alcohol cravings, though i’ve only read this in research journals.. never actually talked to any alcoholics who’ve tried it.
but yeah, naltrexone doesn’t do anything for opiate craving. if you’re very disciplined, you can use naltrexone to help stay off opiates once you’re already off them. that is, you can take it like alcoholics take antabuse.. if you take naltrexone regularly, taking any opiate will cause you IMMMENSE PAIN. in reality though, this probably isn’t a very effective way of dealing with opiate addiction for most people.
interestingly, there has been recent researching suggesting that naltrexone may be helpful in reducing self-injurious behavior in disorders like autism…
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Naltrexone
Date: December 10, 2005 at 5:13:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Luke, we all just discussed this last few days. Check back on your Ibogaine e-mails of past couple of weeks.
I think all concluded that it does not curb cravings and makes addicts go into immediate, severe, harsh, painful withdrawal when ingested and should be avoided like the plague!!
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: December 10, 2005 at 5:10:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vivaldi might be ok, depending on you.
Ohh yehhh Four Seasons, by Joe Satriani ;o)
Yeh yehhh add that one to the list
🙂
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: December 10, 2005 at 4:53:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It took 6-8 months before I found a copy of Fernandez. His liner
notes for the Bwiti CD were also good. Other than that and possibly
something by Samorini? it’s all in French as far as I know.
On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 10:28:22 -0800 matthew zielinski
<mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi beautiful people
pls let me know of any books about the bwiti and iboga
all my searches turned a big 000000
i know about the one by fernandez but i cant even get that at my
local library….bitches!!!
love and all that good shit :]
matt
————————-
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: [1] Fast. Clear.
Easy.
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Links:
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: December 10, 2005 at 4:46:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Vivaldi might be ok, depending on you.
I think it can be nice to have a driving beat for the first 30
minutes or so of onset, to get things moving and announce your
arrival in the spirit world. Then tapering down to meditative at
the end. Mbira music is a bit like Bwiti, and the best mbira cd
I’ve heard is Masters of the Mbira. Also Jali Musa Jawara for the
later long hours of meditation. Probably Tibetan chants would be
good too, but I haven’t any experience.
I recently found a huge site for peyote music:
 http://www.canyonrecords.com
But haven’t tried listening to any on iboga. Bulgarian Women’s
Choir, the Chant cd.. my tastes are ethnic, but so is Bwiti 🙂
On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 14:11:06 -0800 Tuxedo Machine
<tuxmachine@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m taking the plunge soon, wondering how important is it to have
music
playing throughout the ibogaine experience?
Any recommendations? Could I just listen to Vivaldi or something
or is that
too fast and dramatic?
I’ve heard some people listen to Bwiti drumming, can anyone help
me out with
that?
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
Start something musical – 15 free ninemsn Music downloads!
http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=6
67&referral=HotmailTaglineNov&URL=http://www.ninemsn.com.au/startso
mething
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 4:25:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL
Thanx!!!
—–Original Message—–
From: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2005 10:07 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Kirk wrote:
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having
an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses
POV..
Weird places……
ehehe… well, in my experience, if you want to stay away from places
that’ll kick you out for having an opinion, then you should stay away from:
NA
AA
churches (particularly Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Mormon, and Catholic
ones)
high schools
the Congress of the United States
=)
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 4:06:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk wrote:
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses POV……
Weird places…………….
ehehe… well, in my experience, if you want to stay away from places that’ll kick you out for having an opinion, then you should stay away from:
NA
AA
churches (particularly Fundamentalist, Pentecostal, Mormon, and Catholic ones)
high schools
the Congress of the United States
=)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 3:50:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
:oP
Gee what rooms should I stay away from if you get kicked out for having an opinion? Must be pretty one eyed if they can’t accept someone elses POV……
Weird places…………….
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 11 December 2005 7:03 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
LUV YA TOO, Quirky Kirky!!!!

Kirk wrote:
LOL
Ahh kick him out lmao
Good email
thanx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 7:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
VERY well put, Lee, I’ve been mulling on this for a week, now. THAT doesn’t happen very often. LOL. You are inspiring as a writer, and have brought up an interesting point. 

Now this is MY OPINION, and my opinion only, but I’m gonna throw this out there. There are two kinds of people. The ones that can be TOLD that they can/will/be/are healed, and those that solve the equation on their own.

In other words, is the solution “Out there” or “In here”? If I read you right, you are saying whatever works is fine. I might be reading that wrong, I’m just saying I’m much more impressed by the clarity of those not so engrossed in so much study and analysis of problems and causes. It almost seems to become “Infused” into the core of the individual lasting well past Ibo.

I’m not saying this well at all, for fear of being blasted, been thrown outta LOTS of (tee hee, made a funny, Lotsof, get it?) rooms. SO, here goes:
Therapy is not a fix, but a patch for a mind that is inconsolable on it’s own. Therapy wires the brain to encompass a solution to a problem as a fix instead of eliminating the problem. Kinda like stopping pop-ups. The problem is spyware, eliminating pop-ups may SEEM like the problem is gone, but the spyware is still running in the background, using valuable resources.  The actual PROBLEM is still there, only quelled by another action to inactivity. This is always churning in the conscious to negate the subconscious, hence the disconnect, alienation, of the therapy patient. THEN, they are taught that they have been given the “Tools” to rectify this, and since there is no “Magic pill” to install self-worth and confidence, that they are not “Utilizing” the gift that has been “Given” to them. 

Haul THAT pile of crap into an Ibo session as a mindset and guess the outcome.

You cannot fix a computer if the basic logic core is compromised. Reformatting with a bad BIOS (Binary input/output system) is useless.  If it can’t add correctly, it will never add up. To anything.

If ANYBODY ever got thrown out of here, I need to be, so I will speak as if this is my last post. 

Matt, you are my hero. You figgered it out, typo’s and all. Brave, dude, really brave. Bravo!!

Lee, we need to do something together, like minds and all that shit. Appreciate your clarity. Email me.

Brenda, sorry, luv ya

WOW, Deja vu. Matt would understand. Problems just do not exist.

Thanx…
Bee




 
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,

Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!

Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.


I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…

Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!

I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!

 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period. 

 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant. 

WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.

NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.

You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….

So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.

Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?

Lee, don’t feed the bear.

Dr. Lotsof, 
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Don

 



Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”

My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,

A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.

During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!

The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.

And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).

Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.

So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.

I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate :)


brenda



On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Brenda,
>  
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal 
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for 
> you.
>  
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were 
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 10, 2005 at 2:55:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, mattzielinski@hotmail.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
wrote:
———————————
Can anybody paste and copy it for me as my comp is
very slow and i cant open pdf files….
thanks in advance
Love
m
http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf
November-December, 2005
Just Say Maybe
I
A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and
Politics
N JaNuary of this year, the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA)
gave rare approval of a research project examining the
possible useful-
ness of MDMA, an illegal (Schedule 1) psychoactive
drug, for allevi-
ating anxiety among terminally ill
cancer patients. The study, at Har-
vard University’s McLean Hospital,
marks the first research into “psyche-
delic” drugs that Harvard has allowed
on campus since Timothy Leary and
Richard Alpert were expelled from
its faculty in 1963 for encouraging
student use of LSD.
MDMA, commonly called Ec-
stasy and used illegally by millions,
especially young people in the U.S.,
Israel, and Europe, is widely known
to foster euphoria and empathy
through its action as a serotonin up-
take inhibitor. The drug has been
used in clinical tests as a treatment
tool for post-traumatic stress disorder
(PTSD) patients, including survivors
of sexual assault, and for anxiety
relief among terminally ill patients.
According to Dr. Julie Holland, an
expert on MDMA, “illnesses that
have the potential to benefit from
MDMA therapeutic research are
depression  . . . anxiety disorders,
social phobias [and] simple phobias.”
MDMA was made illegal, however,
by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Ad-
ministration in 1986. This action
continues to greatly restrict research
into its possible medical benefits.
LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, ibo-
gaine and other psychedelic drugs
were also investigated by psychia-
trists, researchers and the Central
Intelligence Agency in the 1950s and
early 1960s, before being proscribed.
Early investigators into the effects
of such drugs, notably Dr. Walter
Pahnke of the Maryland Psychiat-
ric Research Center, found among
experimental subjects “increased
personality integration . . . including
a renewed sense of personal worth
coupled with a relaxation of ha-
bitual mechanisms of ego defense,”
and  numerous other positive effects
(Pahnke on LSD in the Journal of
Religion and Health, 1966). Such re-
search was too short-lived, however,
to be definitive.
Personal experimentation with
these powerful drugs led many of
the baby-boom generation to view
them as rich in transformative po-
tential (and a class apart from ad-
dictive narcotics such as heroin and
cocaine). Although little discussed
even by chroniclers of the tumultu-
ous 1960s and ’70s, the widespread
use of psychedelics arguably played
an important role in helping to incite
the creative countercultural energies
of that period. At the same time,
however, the recreational use of such
powerful substances led to many
instances of abuse and psychologi-
cal mishap, even while the law was
preventing scientists and psycho-
therapists from playing a public role
in defining and, perhaps, confining
the use to appropriate venues.
Why have American policymakers
been so opposed to the exploration
of psychedelic drugs for therapeutic
and medical use? Why does the War
on Drugs, with its vast human and
financial costs  and ineffectual results
(see page 14), still rage? How have
psychedelic drugs affected American
politics, religion and culture? Why
are Jews playing prominent roles
in the fields of psychedelic research
11
A
r
tw
o
rk
b
y
L
aw
re
n
c
e
B
u
sh
Jewish curreNts
PARTICIPANTS IN THIS DISCUSSION INCLUDE:
Dr. rick Doblin, founder and president of the
Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic
Studies (MAPS), a non-profit membership-based
organization that sponsors clinical studies
of psychoactive drugs. Doblin holds a Ph.D. in Public
Policy from the Kennedy School of
Government at Harvard University.
Dr. charles s. Grob, professor of psychiatry and
pediatrics at the UCLA School of
Medicine and director of the Division of Child and
Adolescent Psychiatry at Harbor-UCLA
Medical Center.  Grob conducted the first
government-approved study of MDMA and was the
principal investigator with an international research
project in the Brazilian Amazon examining
the psychoactive plant, ayahuasca. He is currently
conducting a study evaluating the use of
psilocybin in the treatment of advanced-stage cancer
patients with anxiety. Grob is the editor
of Hallucinogens: A Reader (2002) and co-editor of a
new book, Higher Wisdom: Eminent
Elders Explore the Continuing Impact of Psychedelics.
Dr. Julie hollanD, board-certified psychiatrist at
Bellevue Hospital in New York and editor
of Ecstasy: The Complete Guide (2001). Holland serves
as a liaison to the hospital’s medical
emergency room and toxicology department and is a
recognized expert on street drugs and
intoxication states. She has written on psychoactive
drugs for Lancet and the quarterly journal
of MAPS, and serves as special consultant for drug
studies to the Heffter Research Institute.
(Dr. Holland was able to participate only briefly in
our interview.)
howarD lotsof, advocate of the anti-addictive effects
of ibogaine, was awarded several
patents in the U.S. and Europe for the use of ibogaine
in the treatment of opioid, stimulant,
nicotine, alcohol and poly-drug dependence. Lotsof
consults to several corporations in the
U.S., Canada and Israel that are conducting clinical
studies and other research with ibogaine.
He is President of the Dora Weiner Foundation and had
been President of NDA International,
Inc., a company deeply involved in the FDA regulatory
development of ibogaine.
and advocacy? Jewish curreNts
editor Lawrence Bush posed these
questions to four prominent Jew-
ish researchers in the field. (Bush’s
article in Tikkkun magazine, “Drugs
and Jewish Spirituality: That Was
Then, This is Now,” was included in
the anthology, Best Jewish Writing of
2003. We thank reader Noah Potter
for helping to inspire and arrange this
interview.)
e
lawrence bush: three of you
have been researching MDMA, and
the new Harvard study is focused
on that compound, too. Is there
something in its effects that seems
especially promising for therapeutic
use, or are you mainly motivated
by its widespread presence in the
culture?
Julie hollanD: The fact that it’s
a very popular drug certainly makes
it into a public health issue, and
we’re obligated to study it and un-
derstand its effects. That being said,
I do think there is something unique
about MDMA that makes it very well
suited for use as a catalyst to help the
psychotherapeutic process go deeper,
more quickly, and possibly more
comfortably. MDMA also doesn’t
last as long as LSD, so it may be
better suited to short psychotherapy
sessions. And the shift in conscious-
ness from MDMA is not as profound
as from LSD, so it might be easier
for the person to stay focused on the
therapeutic tasks at hand.
charles Grob: A unique aspect
of MDMA is its capacity to induce
states of empathy, more so than the
classic hallucinogens. Empathic
rapport between the patient and the
therapist is about the best prognostic
indicator you can find for the success
of psychotherapy.
rick Doblin: I generally say that
psychotherapists will be better able
to use these substances in therapy  if
they’ve experienced the substances
themselves. But a lot of therapists are
12
November-December, 2005
terrified of taking LSD. MDMA is a
more gentle, less challenging drug.
Rabbi Zalman Shachter-Shalomi
[the spiritual leader of the Jewish Re-
newal movement in the U.S. — L.B.]
put it really well when he compared
taking MDMA to observing the sab-
bath. It brings you into the moment,
and there’s a certain restfulness of
self-acceptance, which by itself can
sometimes produce updated percep-
tions or ideas or emotional flow. That
means we can really integrate it into
psychiatry and psychotherapy.
howarD lotsof: The therapist
is going to have to work hard when
these drugs are used. The therapy
is more active, the patient is more
divulging, and the drug has both psy-
chotherapeutic and physical effects
that the therapist has to address.
lawrence bush: some of you have
made public statements disapproving
the recreational use of these drugs, in
part because of how it has interfered
with the research you’re trying to do
into their possible medical uses.
howarD lotsof: The issue of
recreational use should not dissuade
the investigation of medical utility. A
drug can be a drug of abuse but also
have an approved medical purpose.
Charles Grob: But practically
speaking, the mass popularity and
illegal status of MDMA, and the sen-
sationalized media coverage, have
been a real disincentive for many
potential investigators.
rick Doblin: That’s very true. Yet
paradoxically, the fact that MDMA
has been so demonized means that
there’s about $150 million’s worth
of safety data about MDMA in the
public domain that’s been paid for
by governments intent on its prohibi-
tion. This gives us the opportunity to
turn it into a medicine at a price that
we can afford; we would not have to
repeat all that safety research.
lawrence bush: What do you think
draws adolescents to experiment with
psychedelic drugs? They’re powerful
and can be frightening, and they’re
not “escapist” in the ways that we
usually think of cocaine or heroin or
other opiates.
charles Grob: That’s a great
question. To some degree, it’s about
adventurousness, the generalized
risk-taking that we see among young
people. For some, it’s about the need
to transcend — the search for the
numinous.
The trap that many young people
get into is this: While they may have
a drive to experience an optimal
altered state of consciousness, the
conditions under which they take
the compounds — and often the
compounds themselves, which are
seriously subpar and adulterated
— lead them into very, very serious
trouble. If you take these compounds
at the wrong place, at the wrong
time, with the wrong people, under
the wrong conditions, you can have
severe adverse effects.
howarD lotsof: Those are the
outcomes of a society that condemns
normal experimental use of psycho-
active substances. These substances,
and their use, can be traced back to
the very beginnings of history. If
society is not going to take respon-
sibility for the health and welfare of
its children, it’s left up to them to do
as best they can. And parents are pre-
“The issue of recreational use should not dissuade the
investigation
of medical utility. A drug can be a drug of abuse but
also have an
approved medical purpose.”
MDMa, known on the street as ecstasy,
was patented by Merck Pharmaceuticals prior to World
War I and ex-
plored for its “brainwashing” potential by U.S. Army
Intelligence in
the 1950s. It was used in psychotherapeutic research
in the 1970s and
became a widely used recreational drug, especially in
conjunction with
all-night dancing, in the 1980s. In the U.S., some 25
percent of young
people, 15 to 25, are estimated to have used the drug.
Neurotoxicity research suggests that MDMA may make
users vulner-
able to hyperthermia, dehydration, and depression.
However, according
to Charles S. Grob’s “Deconstructing Ecstasy: The
Politics of MDMA
Research” (in Hallucinogens, 2002), “MDMA
neurotoxicity may be
entirely setting dependent and therefore completely
preventable.” The
dance club settings where the drug is most commonly
used seem to be
more to blame for the small number of Ecstasy-linked
deaths in the past
few years than the compound itself. “For years,” Grob
observes, “fears
aroused by the publicization of neurotoxicity concerns
have stalled the
development of alternative research paradigms” to
assess “the unique
properties of MDMA, both positive and negative . . .”
13
Jewish curreNts
vented from intervening in any way,
except to say “No,” which doesn’t get
you anywhere with your kids.
charles Grob: The great irony of
the situation is that while these drugs
are allegedly the most controlled
group of drugs, classified as Schedule
1, they are actually out of control:
Anybody can get them, and can get
into terrible trouble with them. In
many respects, the whole premise
of current drug policy has failed,
because it has not at all prevented
young people from easily accessing
dangerous drugs and using them in
the most adverse settings.
rick Doblin: The people who can’t
get them are the researchers!
The government seems to want to
maximize the harm done by these
drugs, so they can maintain prohibi-
tion. They’re putting forward a vast
amount of misinformation. People
have been told, for example, that the
marijuana smoked today is twenty
times more potent than the marijuana
they smoked as young people — so
they support prohibition for their own
kids. Those kinds of false arguments
are amazingly effective. We need to
focus on how to counteract that kind
of propaganda. The best response is
scientific information.
lawrence bush: What do you
make of the opposition to psychoac-
tive  drugs in our society? Why do the
authorities fear them so much?
rick Doblin: One of the very first
things the Spanish conquerors did in
the New World was to unleash the In-
quisition to go after the sacramental
use of peyote.The community-build-
ing effect of sacred peyote use was
seen as threatening to the religious
and political authority of the new rul-
the war on DruGs
was launched in 1972 by President Richard Nixon and
now costs
taxpayers between $11 and $40 billion per year
(depending on who’s
counting), most of it spent on law enforcement and
interdiction. State
and local governments add billions annually to that
total. Yet according
to White House estimates, 57 percent of those who need
drug treatment
do not receive it —even though treatment, says the
RAND Drug Policy
Research Center (in a study for the U.S. Army), is
fifteen times less
expensive than law enforcement and (in the case of
cocaine) ten times
more cost effective than interdiction.
The costs of the War on Drugs go beyond tax dollars.
Of two million
people now incarcerated in the U.S. (a world record),
more than 250,000
are in state prisons on drug charges and more than
half of federal inmates
are drug offenders. The U.S. now incarcerates more
people for drug of-
fenses than Western Europe, with a greater population,
incarcerates for
all criminal offenses. State prison budgets are
therefore growing twice
as fast as state spending on public colleges and
universities.
One third of the 101,000 women in prison today (eight
times more than
in 1980) are drug offenders, even though, according to
the American
Civil Liberties Union, many of these women had only
“peripheral in-
volvement” or simply “failed to turn in their partners
to police.” Most
of these women leave behind children “for whom they
were the sole
primary caretaker.” African Americans, who constitute
just 13 percent
of monthly drug users, are involved in 35 percent of
arrests for drug
possession, 55 percent of possession convictions, and
74 percent of
cases resulting in imprisonment for drug possession,
according to the
Drug Policy Alliance (www. drug policy.org). A Human
Rights Watch
report observes that nationwide, African-American men
are incarcerated
for drugs at nearly ten times the rate of white men.
Sentencing is also
generally harsher for African-Americans than for
whites.
According to the Unitarian Universalist Association,
U.S. drug war
interventions in Latin America have had “increasingly
negative impacts
on democratic institutions, poverty and the
environment.” The U.S.
“uses the guise of ‘narco-trafficking’ to train and
command soldiers in
Latin America to oppress and physically harm the poor.
A letter to the
United Nations signed by more than five hundred
leaders from around
the world states that ‘the global war on drugs is now
causing more harm
than drug abuse itself.’ ”
Random drug testing is now a standard feature in
public school systems
and workplaces. Yet more than half of American
students report having
tried an illegal drug before graduating from high
school, according to
the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy. The
War on Drugs has
not made the substances it targets unavailable to
people; prohibition,
rather, has simply increased the profitability of drug
trafficking and the
level of violence and suffering associated with it.
14
November-December, 2005
ers. Today, we have symbolic politics
at work: Psychedelics emerged in the
1960s, a time of tremendous social
turmoil, and because they inspired
people who later became prominent
in the anti-war and social move-
ments, the drugs became symbols of
cultural rebellion.
charles Grob: They were cata-
lytic in fostering opposition to the
Vietnam War — and their role is very
underappreciated.
howarD lotsof: I was in Berkeley
during the Free Speech Movement.
There was a tremendous flow of
information among young people, in-
cluding from within the university
and Livermore Lab, and I can tell you
that the core of government opposi-
tion to LSD and drugs of that type,
the really heavy FBI moves against
them, had everything to do with their
use within the anti-war movement.
lawrence bush: So do you see
the work you do now as being on a
continuum with the social causes of
the 1960s?
charles Grob: Well, during the
1960s, we had a sense that we were
on the threshold of achieving a new
society. That was naive. If you look
at society today, there are enormous
problems.
howarD lotsof: But great chang-
es did occur: through the civil rights
movement, the women’s rights
movement . . .
charles Grob: Yes, and whereas
the war ended and all of the other
hot-button causes achieved some
measure of acceptability, the puta-
tive role of psychedelics in society
has been swept back under the rug.
“DruG DecriMinalization,”
a resolution passed by the Workmen’s Circle in 2002
and reaffirmed in
2004, states that while it is “generally agreed that
the use of recreational
drugs is undesirable,” the “same can be said of many
other practices that
are not illegal, such as the use of tobacco and the
use of alcohol. Only
the use of drugs is currently criminalized by all
levels of government in
the U.S. and is the subject of a ‘war’ to exterminate
the practice.
“Many scholars and legal authorities . . . have come
to the conclusion
that the war . . . aggravates the problem it is
intended to solve. . . . The
very expensive campaign to reduce the inflow of drugs
into the U.S.
is a demonstrable failure” and has “resulted in
various counterproduc-
tive foreign-policy debacles. . . . The illegality of
drugs has led to the
evolution of vast structures of gangs and criminal
cartels” and a “tre-
mendous proliferation of hand guns, marked increase in
gun-related
violence, the death of large numbers of innocent
children and adults,
and the blighting of large parts of the inner cities,
which have become,
in essence, war zones. . .
“Against these negative consequences of society’s war
on drug use, it
is hard to discern any real benefits or justification.
Certain things are
often cited, but are not very convincing:
“1) Use of drugs has undesirable medical consequences.
In point of
fact, such consequences are hard to document . . .
[and] pale into insig-
nificance next to the deterious medical effects of
legal ‘drugs’ such as
alcohol and tobacco.
“2) Drugs breed violence. It is, of course, not the
drugs themselves but
their illegality that breeds the violence. The
enormous sums of money
to be made by selling anything illegal fuel the entire
violent drug-deal-
ing community.
“3) Children have to be protected. . . . Spending the
money on education
about drugs would be far more effective. . . .”
The resolution goes on to propose the following:
“• The possession and use of all drugs should be
decriminalized. Exist-
ing laws that criminalize them should be repealed.
“• Persons currently incarcerated solely for drug
possession should be
released to education/rehabilitation programs.
“• Drugs should be available by regulated sale, like
alcohol, and should
be freely prescribable by physicians.
“• Persons who use drugs should be encouraged to join
rehabilitation
programs . . . but should not be coerced to join them.
“• A broad educational effort should be mounted to
dissuade people,
especially children, from using drugs, but because it
is self-destructive
and counterproductive, not because it is illegal.”
The complete resolution may be read at
www.circle.org/PDF/resolu-
tion/8.pdf.
15
Jewish curreNts
It’s been very hard even to talk about
it. Yet those compounds represent a
potential treatment model that might
very well have strong efficacy and ap-
plicability, particularly for psychiatric
conditions that do not respond well to
conventional treatment.
For example, there is hardly an area
in medicine in which we have pro-
gressed less over the last half  century
than in the treatment of alcoholism.
We have very impressive data from
studies in the 1950s and ’60s that the
psychedelic treatment model, when
optimally utilized, may have a great
degree of efficacy with alcoholism.
We should be examining untapped
treatment potentials, particularly for
disorders that do untold damage to
individuals, families and society.
lawrence bush: What about “hard
core” mental illnesses? Is there much
known about the effects of different
psychoactive drugs on schizophrenia
or other difficult mental disorders?
Julie hollanD: There is precious
little data about that, only anecdotal
reports. Schizophrenics are consid-
ered a particularly fragile patient
population, and there are also many
issues about informed consent with
them. It’s very controversial to give
psychoactive drugs to schizophren-
ics. These patients should certainly
not be at the forefront of our re-
search.
In the book I edited about MDMA,
there are four testimonials about
positive experiences with the drug
by schizophrenics. All four said
that they were helped by it acutely,
and some chronically. I would say,
however, that people with a his-
tory of psychosis should stay away
from psychedelic drugs, especially
those drugs that tickle or agonize
the NDMA receptor centers, which
are part of the glutamate system and
are implicated in the psychosis of
schizophrenia.
lawrence bush: All right, then:
You can get FDA permission to
work with terminally ill patients or
patients with severe post-traumatic
stress disorder. To what extent do
you see these substances as tools for
people in great distress, and to what
extent would you like to see the use
of these drugs in a therapeutic way
by the broader population?
charles Grob: At this point, it’s
essential that we focus on their poten-
tial utilization in a therapeutic con-
text. If psychoactive drugs are ever
to achieve legal status, there will no
doubt be credentials that individual
practitioners will have to apply for
before they could legally administer
them in treatment.
howarD lotsof: All of my work
has been involved with ibogaine
as a treatment for drug addiction. I
just want to make it possible to take
this population out of harm’s way,
and ibogaine seems to do that more
directly and abruptly than other
treatments.
rick Doblin: One good example
of a possible broader use of MDMA
is offered by Israel, where maPs
“Israel offers a good example of possible broader use
of MDMA.
There is so much widespread, baseline stress and
post-traumatic
stress disorder in Israel that they’re willing to look
at other tools.”
[the Multidisciplinary Association
for Psychedelic Studies, which
Doblin heads — L.B.] is now ne-
gotiating a contract for the Ministry
of Health to study MDMA’s impact
on post-traumatic stress disorder.
There is so much widespread, base-
line stress and PTSD in Israel that
they’re willing to look at other tools.
The person we’re working with in
Israel, Dr. Moshe Kotler, used to be
the chief psychiatrist for the Israel
Defense Forces and is now the head
of the Department of Psychiatry at
Tel Aviv University.
One of Israel’s most well-known
Holocaust writers, Ka-Tzetnik, un-
derwent LSD therapy in the Neth-
erlands for concentration camp
syndrome and then wrote about his
experience in a book called Shiviti,
which caught the attention of a lot of
Israelis. The psychiatrists who super-
vised his therapy also emigrated to
Israel. So the idea that psychedelics
work to bring emotions to the surface
and can help with these disorders has
become widely accepted there.
Still, it took seven years of work in
Israel for us to get permission. It’s a
delicate situation. There is a tremen-
dous amount of Ecstasy use in Israel.
Young people leave the army at the
end of their service, travel around the
world and find spots where they can
lie around on the beach and do drugs,
particularly Ecstasy. The Ministry of
Health has special teams that go to
India and elsewhere to rescue young
Israelis who are having difficult drug
experiences. So there’s a reluctance
to sanction research that might in-
spire young people to do even more
experimentation.
They are also scared of pressure
from the United States. Israel is
totally dependent on U.S. aid and
is not going to move out in front on
drug policy. They are also sensitive
16
November-December, 2005
to Israel’s reputation as a center of
Ecstasy manufacture and smuggling.
But now that they see that Harvard
is undertaking its MDMA study,
and now that they’ve seen our data
on PTSD, they’re ready to move
forward. They’re actively consider-
ing an ibogaine research project as
well.
charles Grob: An example of
the use of these compounds outside
a strictly medical setting is the Bra-
zilian ayahuasca church, União de
Vegetal (UDV), which I’ve studied
extensively. The church uses the
powerful hallucinogenic plant aya-
huasca in religious rituals and has
legally protected status.
The ayahuasca sacrament is ad-
ministered by the ministers of the
religion, yet there’s a very active
medical division of the church that
screens all new members and moni-
tors the responses of members with
medical or psychiatric histories who
start to participate in the religious
ceremonies. This is a way of giving
the medical profession a role in a
religious setting regarding the sac-
ramental use of these drugs.
We did a study of adolescents in the
UDV; our findings are in the latest
issue of the Journal of Psychoac-
tive Drugs. Many of these kids were
exposed in utero to ayahuasca, were
baptized with it as babies and had
the option of participating in cer-
emonies once they hit puberty. They
look very healthy and are function-
ing very well. So from a health and
safety standpoint, under optimally
controlled conditions, there is some
potential that these substances might
be widely used in a beneficial and
salutary manner.
The UDV also believes that ado-
lescent participation in ayahuasca
ceremonies prophylaxes them against
abusing alcohol or other drugs.
Many of the adult subjects in our
first ayahuasca research study, in
1993, reported that their alcohol- and
drug-abuse disorders had remitted
following their regular participation
in UDV ceremonies. This reduction
of psychopathology was a salient
finding of our investigation, and one
we believe has serious implications
for our own society.
In November, the Supreme Court
will be hearing a case involving the
use of ayahuasca by the União de
Vegetal in the U.S. The outcome of
this case will have important impli-
cations. If the Court rules in support
of the lower court’s decision in favor
of the UDV’s right to use ayahuasca
for religious purposes, it will be an
extraordinary precedent.
rick Doblin: That case was initi-
ated by Jeffrey Bronfman, who heads
the U.S. version of the UDV. He’s a
member of a very prominent Jewish
family who seems to have found the
rituals of Judaism to be spiritually
lacking.
I did, too. In fact, it was my own
bar mitzvah experience in 1966 that
led directly to my appreciation for
psychedelics, in that my bar mitz-
vah didn’t turn me into a man. I had
expected, naively, that the traditional
training and ritual that Conservative
Judaism provided would somehow
make me feel really different. But
they didn’t seep down to the levels
of my psyche the way I needed them
to. Five years later, when I took LSD,
it was like: This is what should have
happened through my bar mitzvah!
lawrence bush: Then let’s make
a leap: Let’s say that the Jewish
community decided to introduce a
psychedelic experience as a rite of
passage. There’s bar and bat mitzvah,
there’s marriage, and now there’s
a mystical psychedelic experience
for those adults who want it. Is that
the kind of broad use that you envi-
sion?
charles Grob: I need to raise a
cautionary point. In our society, one
of the hot-button issues guaranteed
to get people to oppose any inves-
tigation of psychedelics is to talk
about their sanctioned use by young
people.
rick Doblin: I think the policy
that might one day prevail is a “fam-
ily values” approach, which asks,
“Whose decision should it be about
whether young people use substanc-
es?” In the União de Vegetal, it tends
to be a family decision.
charles Grob: But those are
multigenerational communities with
adult leaders! To talk about the use
of these compounds by young peo-
ple, you’d have to clearly distinguish
between the unsafe, recreational and
thoughtless use that we often see in
our own culture and the use of them
by indigenous people in ritualized
rites of initiation that are facilitated
by elders and socially sanctioned.
Those are very different models.
lawrence bush: One reason these
drugs seem to have sacramental value
is that they can evoke an experience
of religious mysticism. Part of the
mystical experience, however, is
that the perceptions you gain often
seem more profound and real than
the perceptions of normal waking
consciousness — which makes users
susceptible to a kind of “conversion-
ary” experience or religious awaken-
ing. Don’t you think that also leads to
gullibility, involvement in religious
cults, other kinds of quackery?
17
Jewish curreNts
bound up with my Jewish identity.
I also think about the fact that the
Inquisition’s repression of the use of
sacred plants by peoples in the Amer-
icas was concurrent in time with
the Inquisition’s attacks in Europe
against the Jews. In many respects, I
see our current drug policies as heirs
to the Inquisition.
rick Doblin: There is a large per-
centage of Jews in science, but even
a larger percentage in psychiatry. I
think this Jewish focus on diseases
of the mind reflects our own history
of being victims of cultural insanity
and irrationality for so long.
For me, the goal is to transform
society. And I do think that large-
scale social change can be motivated
by that unitive mystical experience,
because once you have identified
“across boundaries,” it’s less pos-
sible to get involved in scapegoating
or demonizing others, or in wars
that rely upon religious or national
hatreds. That’s why I would say
that my work with psychedelics was
motivated primarily as a response to
the Holocaust.
But it’s an appropriate strategic
decision to work on these medi-
cal applications first. I think that’s
particularly true of the work with
the terminally ill. Everybody has a
certain fear about dying, and if we
can show that there is some sort of
response that we can provide that can
be helpful, people may be able to get
over the symbolism of these drugs as
tools of cultural rebellion.
howarD lotsof: Not unless
groups like the Moonies were in-
volved in psychedelics. Remember,
the history of cults extends far back
before the advent of modern psy-
chedelics!
In my forty-plus years of observ-
ing drug use — and participating in
my younger years — I find that peo-
ple remain basically who they are.
The vulnerable ones are vulnerable
to begin with and may have been
headed to a place of dysfunction even
without psychedelics.
charles Grob: Actually, I think
that many of the young people who
joined cults did have psychedelic
experiences and found them to be
shattering. They then went looking
for new structures in which to stabi-
lize their psyches. Young people in
the 1960s were reinventing the wheel
when it came to these substances.
There were no elders or road maps
to guide them. Many people had ex-
periences that positively influenced
the course of their lives, but we can’t
lose sight of the fact that there were
people who went off the deep end and
never came back.
rick Doblin: The question is
whether the unitive experience,
which seems so self-confirmatory
— “This is so true!” — puts a person
at odds with skepticism and ques-
tioning. I think it’s often the opposite:
Once you have these experiences,
which you feel are so deeply true,
you want to know more about what
is really true — which is why the
scientific quest takes over.
“While these Schedule 1 drugs are allegedly the most
controlled
group, they are actually out of control. Anybody can
get them,
and can get into terrible trouble with them.”
18
lawrence bush: Apart from Rick
Doblin’s bar mitzvah reflections, are
there other “Jewish connections” in
the work you’re doing?
howarD lotsof: i can’t separate
anything about me from my Jewish-
ness, even though I’m not an actively
practicing Jew. I was born in 1943,
during the Second World War, and
my mother taught me that regardless
of what I considered myself to be, the
Nazis would have killed me. That has
had a potent effect on my identity.
To me, Jewishness and healing are
inseparable. I feel that my involve-
ment with ibogaine is basically fol-
lowing a path established by Moses,
Jesus, Einstein, Freud, Salk . . .
charles Grob: I echo a lot of
what Howard said. My mother was
a refugee, escaping Nazi Germany to
Sweden in late 1939. Her father was
a decorated German Army veteran of
World War I who was imprisoned for
several months at Dachau. My father,
a U.S. Army medical officer, was
the first American doctor to arrive
at Dachau the day it was liberated
in 1945. These experiences of my
parents and grandparents were the
stories I heard during my childhood,
and they had a very deep impact on
me.
On my mother’s side of the family,
I’m actually a direct descendant of a
long line of rabbis going back forty
generations to Rashi. I see myself as
coming from the tradition of heal-
ing, the tradition of compassion, the
tradition of service, the tradition of
exploring religious experience, all
 We invite
reader comment.
———————————
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic
Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:42:34 EST
Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A
Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and
Politics that is based on a teleconference that
included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie
Holland and I.  Let me know what you think?
Howard
http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
———————————
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses
with  MSN Premium:   Join now and get the first two
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 2:49:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yes
i agree
why try to complicate an already complicated matter
why why why
will it solve anything?
did philosophical thinking ever solve anything?
big fuken NOOOO
it just teaches us to ask better questions
but
if it helps people find clearity in their strugless——then why the fuk not
love
matt
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 19:52:34 +1300
LOL
Ahh kick him out lmao
Good email
thanx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 7:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
VERY well put, Lee, I’ve been mulling on this for a week, now. THAT doesn’t happen very often. LOL. You are inspiring as a writer, and have brought up an interesting point. 

Now this is MY OPINION, and my opinion only, but I’m gonna throw this out there. There are two kinds of people. The ones that can be TOLD that they can/will/be/are healed, and those that solve the equation on their own.

In other words, is the solution “Out there” or “In here”? If I read you right, you are saying whatever works is fine. I might be reading that wrong, I’m just saying I’m much more impressed by the clarity of those not so engrossed in so much study and analysis of problems and causes. It almost seems to become “Infused” into the core of the individual lasting well past Ibo.

I’m not saying this well at all, for fear of being blasted, been thrown outta LOTS of (tee hee, made a funny, Lotsof, get it?) rooms. SO, here goes:
Therapy is not a fix, but a patch for a mind that is inconsolable on it’s own. Therapy wires the brain to encompass a solution to a problem as a fix instead of eliminating the problem. Kinda like stopping pop-ups. The problem is spyware, eliminating pop-ups may SEEM like the problem is gone, but the spyware is still running in the background, using valuable resources.  The actual PROBLEM is still there, only quelled by another action to inactivity. This is always churning in the conscious to negate the subconscious, hence the disconnect, alienation, of the therapy patient. THEN, they are taught that they have been given the “Tools” to rectify this, and since there is no “Magic pill” to install self-worth and confidence, that they are not “Utilizing” the gift that has been “Given” to them. 

Haul THAT pile of crap into an Ibo session as a mindset and guess the outcome.

You cannot fix a computer if the basic logic core is compromised. Reformatting with a bad BIOS (Binary input/output system) is useless.  If it can’t add correctly, it will never add up. To anything.

If ANYBODY ever got thrown out of here, I need to be, so I will speak as if this is my last post. 

Matt, you are my hero. You figgered it out, typo’s and all. Brave, dude, really brave. Bravo!!

Lee, we need to do something together, like minds and all that shit. Appreciate your clarity. Email me.

Brenda, sorry, luv ya

WOW, Deja vu. Matt would understand. Problems just do not exist.

Thanx…
Bee




 
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,

Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!

Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.


I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…

Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!

I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!

 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period. 

 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant. 

WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.

NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.

You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….

So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.

Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?

Lee, don’t feed the bear.

Dr. Lotsof, 
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Don

 



Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”

My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,

A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.

During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!

The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.

And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).

Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.

So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.

I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate :)


brenda



On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Brenda,
>  
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal 
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for 
> you.
>  
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were 
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 10, 2005 at 2:16:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Can anybody paste and copy it for me as my comp is very slow and i cant open pdf files….
thanks in advance
Love
m
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 02:42:34 EST
Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics that is based on a teleconference that included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie Holland and I.  Let me know what you think?
Howard
http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
Open your e-mail without having to worry about viruses with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 10, 2005 at 1:46:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
   *_*
               http://leap.cc
— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
Crossing a street in San Francisco,
with an angel,
there was a glint on the blacktop
on the road to mindstates
A smashed hair pin
(turning turning on the Mohawk Trail)
with a bucking cow hand
the logo of
Why-OM-ingratiatedstateofCheneySpearAssays
Wyoming, thought Eye, sublimated.
Why Wyoming, wondered Rachel, breathing.
Wyoming, muttered the wind.  Wyoming.
when?
then.
back then.
may or june
fucking matrix.
how did they do that?
Is this going to be an ibogaine civil rights case?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Product Integration
Date: December 10, 2005 at 1:29:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, heroinusers@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi,
 you may or may not be looking for a reason to shoot
more instead of sniffing.  If you don’t decide on
deterioraing nose then something else will probably
fill the gap.
It’s all in the script.
Regular sniffing, to water sniffing, to shooting
etc…
Problem isn’t the heroin or whatever, but the current
society view;
the odds of obtaining a consistent and reliable supply
(without it taking up all day, wait wait wait) to not
be sick isn’t too favorable at the moment, depending
how much money you have squirlled away.
So   Maybe after a   speedball       period  after
the H tolerance
                                   kicks in, then on
to methadone or bup.
Problem with those is, well it gives law enforcement
allot of power if  detained for anything, (they are
known to take their time with giving prescribed
medication due to their own personal opinion about the
‘junkies’.
“it’s ok to eat fish, ’cause they don’t have any
feelings”
type  stuff
anyways good luck and have fun.
j
— heroinusers@yahoogroups.com wrote:
  Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 05:42:44 -0000
  From: “boyler_one” <boyler_one@yahoo.com>
Subject: new girl to the game
using H for about 7 months now.Shot only a couple of
times. Recently
when I sniff,my nose bleeds. Am I dying or is the
lining of my nose
just deteroirating? Can you die from that?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 1:02:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LUV YA TOO, Quirky Kirky!!!!
Kirk wrote:
LOL
Ahh kick him out lmao
Good email
thanx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 7:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
VERY well put, Lee, I’ve been mulling on this for a week, now. THAT doesn’t happen very often. LOL. You are inspiring as a writer, and have brought up an interesting point. 

Now this is MY OPINION, and my opinion only, but I’m gonna throw this out there. There are two kinds of people. The ones that can be TOLD that they can/will/be/are healed, and those that solve the equation on their own.

In other words, is the solution “Out there” or “In here”? If I read you right, you are saying whatever works is fine. I might be reading that wrong, I’m just saying I’m much more impressed by the clarity of those not so engrossed in so much study and analysis of problems and causes. It almost seems to become “Infused” into the core of the individual lasting well past Ibo.

I’m not saying this well at all, for fear of being blasted, been thrown outta LOTS of (tee hee, made a funny, Lotsof, get it?) rooms. SO, here goes:
Therapy is not a fix, but a patch for a mind that is inconsolable on it’s own. Therapy wires the brain to encompass a solution to a problem as a fix instead of eliminating the problem. Kinda like stopping pop-ups. The problem is spyware, eliminating pop-ups may SEEM like the problem is gone, but the spyware is still running in the background, using valuable resources.  The actual PROBLEM is still there, only quelled by another action to inactivity. This is always churning in the conscious to negate the subconscious, hence the disconnect, alienation, of the therapy patient. THEN, they are taught that they have been given the “Tools” to rectify this, and since there is no “Magic pill” to install self-worth and confidence, that they are not “Utilizing” the gift that has been “Given” to them. 

Haul THAT pile of crap into an Ibo session as a mindset and guess the outcome.

You cannot fix a computer if the basic logic core is compromised. Reformatting with a bad BIOS (Binary input/output system) is useless.  If it can’t add correctly, it will never add up. To anything.

If ANYBODY ever got thrown out of here, I need to be, so I will speak as if this is my last post. 

Matt, you are my hero. You figgered it out, typo’s and all. Brave, dude, really brave. Bravo!!

Lee, we need to do something together, like minds and all that shit. Appreciate your clarity. Email me.

Brenda, sorry, luv ya

WOW, Deja vu. Matt would understand. Problems just do not exist.

Thanx…
Bee




 
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,

Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!

Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.


I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…

Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!

I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!

 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period. 

 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant. 

WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.

NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.

You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….

So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.

Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?

Lee, don’t feed the bear.

Dr. Lotsof, 
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Don

 



Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”

My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,

A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.

During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!

The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.

And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).

Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.

So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.

I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate :)


brenda



On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Brenda,
>  
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal 
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for 
> you.
>  
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were 
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Naltrexone
Date: December 10, 2005 at 12:06:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear Group,
             Has anyone hear or used naltrexone? I read it’s supposed
to help elieve cravings in addicts and alcholics.
Luke
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 75 bands
Date: December 10, 2005 at 11:07:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Here ya go. I don’t know if these are all right.
1. B-52s
2. Led Zeppelin
3. Gorillaz
4. Pet Shop Boys
5. Smashing Pumpkins
6. Sex Pistols
7. Blur
8. Scissor Sisters
9. Beach Boys
10. Ratt
11. The Nails
12. Cowboy Junkies
13. Alice In Chains
14. The Eagles
15. Black Flag
16. White Zombie
17. The Doors
18. The Rolling Stones
19. Queen
20. The Cars
21. Iron Maiden
22. Whitesnake
23. Blind Melon
24. Radiohead
25. Red Hot Chili Peppers
26. 50 Cent
27. Garbage
28. Dinosaur, Jr.
29. The Eels
30. The Pixies
31. U2
32. The Postal Service
33. Spoon
34. Main
35. Twisted Sister
36. Black Crowes
37. The Apes ?
38. The Monkeys
39. Lemonheads
40. Matchbox 20
41. The Police
42. The White Stripes
43. Television
44. Prince
45. Eminem
46. The Leaves
47. Ice Cube
48. Korn
49. Diamond
50. Jewel
51. The Vines
52. Dead Kennedys
53. Cake
54. Bubble
55. Yello?
56. Jesus & Mary Chain?
57. The Byrds
58. Hole
59. Deep Purple?
60. The Proclaimers?
61. Curve
62. Phish?
63. Blues Brothers?
64. Nine Inch Nails?
65. The Cranberries?
66. Crowded House?
67. The Windows
68. Jem?
69. The Killers?
70. Madonna?
On 12/10/05, abeatty@mail2go.com <abeatty@mail2go.com> wrote:
Could someone please post a list of the bands again. I lost mine and want to
send it to someone.
Thanx,
Andy
————————————————————
    Get your free email account at mail2go.com today!
Click here <http://www.mail2go.com> to open your account.
————————————————————
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] CONSCIOUSNESS IS REAL… ALL THE REST IS MAGIC
Date: December 10, 2005 at 3:47:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yehh he’s turning into the right little bloody hippy aye?
Although , I think he’s always been a closet hippy…….. ;o)
Heheheh
Kirk xx
From: Dwight Muller [mailto:dwightmuller@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 9:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONSCIOUSNESS IS REAL… ALL THE REST IS MAGIC
Matt
Suddenly
lights are coming on all over!
Welcome to the real world!
Consciousness is, all else is contingent.
love
dwight

– 
’It is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a sick society.’

- Krishnamurti –
From: Dwight Muller <dwightmuller@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] CONSCIOUSNESS IS REAL… ALL THE REST IS MAGIC
Date: December 10, 2005 at 3:45:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt
Suddenly
lights are coming on all over!
Welcome to the real world!
Consciousness is, all else is contingent.
love
dwight
‘It is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a sick society.’
– Krishnamurti –
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics
Date: December 10, 2005 at 2:42:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Jewish Currents magazine just published an article, A Discussion about Psychedelic Drugs, Healing and Politics that is based on a teleconference that included Drs. Rick Doblin, Charles S. Grob, Julie Holland and I.  Let me know what you think?
Howard
http://www.jewishcurrents.org/pdf/2005-nov-drugs.pdf
Howard Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
dir tel: 1 718 442-2754
dir fax: 1 718 442-1957
email: dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 1:52:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL
Ahh kick him out lmao
Good email
thanx
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 7:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
VERY well put, Lee, I’ve been mulling on this for a week, now. THAT doesn’t happen very often. LOL. You are inspiring as a writer, and have brought up an interesting point. 

Now this is MY OPINION, and my opinion only, but I’m gonna throw this out there. There are two kinds of people. The ones that can be TOLD that they can/will/be/are healed, and those that solve the equation on their own.

In other words, is the solution “Out there” or “In here”? If I read you right, you are saying whatever works is fine. I might be reading that wrong, I’m just saying I’m much more impressed by the clarity of those not so engrossed in so much study and analysis of problems and causes. It almost seems to become “Infused” into the core of the individual lasting well past Ibo.

I’m not saying this well at all, for fear of being blasted, been thrown outta LOTS of (tee hee, made a funny, Lotsof, get it?) rooms. SO, here goes:
Therapy is not a fix, but a patch for a mind that is inconsolable on it’s own. Therapy wires the brain to encompass a solution to a problem as a fix instead of eliminating the problem. Kinda like stopping pop-ups. The problem is spyware, eliminating pop-ups may SEEM like the problem is gone, but the spyware is still running in the background, using valuable resources.  The actual PROBLEM is still there, only quelled by another action to inactivity. This is always churning in the conscious to negate the subconscious, hence the disconnect, alienation, of the therapy patient. THEN, they are taught that they have been given the “Tools” to rectify this, and since there is no “Magic pill” to install self-worth and confidence, that they are not “Utilizing” the gift that has been “Given” to them. 

Haul THAT pile of crap into an Ibo session as a mindset and guess the outcome.

You cannot fix a computer if the basic logic core is compromised. Reformatting with a bad BIOS (Binary input/output system) is useless.  If it can’t add correctly, it will never add up. To anything.

If ANYBODY ever got thrown out of here, I need to be, so I will speak as if this is my last post. 

Matt, you are my hero. You figgered it out, typo’s and all. Brave, dude, really brave. Bravo!!

Lee, we need to do something together, like minds and all that shit. Appreciate your clarity. Email me.

Brenda, sorry, luv ya

WOW, Deja vu. Matt would understand. Problems just do not exist.

Thanx…
Bee




 
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,

Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!

Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.


I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…

Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!

I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!

 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period. 

 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant. 

WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.

NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.

You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….

So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.

Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?

Lee, don’t feed the bear.

Dr. Lotsof, 
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Don

 



Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”

My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,

A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.

During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!

The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.

And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).

Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.

So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.

I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate :)


brenda



On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Brenda,
>  
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal 
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for 
> you.
>  
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were 
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 1:52:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
PS
,loved the pop up blocker reference lol
From: Don Patton [mailto:SuperBee@Tstar.net] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 7:46 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
VERY well put, Lee, I’ve been mulling on this for a week, now. THAT doesn’t happen very often. LOL. You are inspiring as a writer, and have brought up an interesting point. 

Now this is MY OPINION, and my opinion only, but I’m gonna throw this out there. There are two kinds of people. The ones that can be TOLD that they can/will/be/are healed, and those that solve the equation on their own.

In other words, is the solution “Out there” or “In here”? If I read you right, you are saying whatever works is fine. I might be reading that wrong, I’m just saying I’m much more impressed by the clarity of those not so engrossed in so much study and analysis of problems and causes. It almost seems to become “Infused” into the core of the individual lasting well past Ibo.

I’m not saying this well at all, for fear of being blasted, been thrown outta LOTS of (tee hee, made a funny, Lotsof, get it?) rooms. SO, here goes:
Therapy is not a fix, but a patch for a mind that is inconsolable on it’s own. Therapy wires the brain to encompass a solution to a problem as a fix instead of eliminating the problem. Kinda like stopping pop-ups. The problem is spyware, eliminating pop-ups may SEEM like the problem is gone, but the spyware is still running in the background, using valuable resources.  The actual PROBLEM is still there, only quelled by another action to inactivity. This is always churning in the conscious to negate the subconscious, hence the disconnect, alienation, of the therapy patient. THEN, they are taught that they have been given the “Tools” to rectify this, and since there is no “Magic pill” to install self-worth and confidence, that they are not “Utilizing” the gift that has been “Given” to them. 

Haul THAT pile of crap into an Ibo session as a mindset and guess the outcome.

You cannot fix a computer if the basic logic core is compromised. Reformatting with a bad BIOS (Binary input/output system) is useless.  If it can’t add correctly, it will never add up. To anything.

If ANYBODY ever got thrown out of here, I need to be, so I will speak as if this is my last post. 

Matt, you are my hero. You figgered it out, typo’s and all. Brave, dude, really brave. Bravo!!

Lee, we need to do something together, like minds and all that shit. Appreciate your clarity. Email me.

Brenda, sorry, luv ya

WOW, Deja vu. Matt would understand. Problems just do not exist.

Thanx…
Bee




 
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,

Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!

Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.


I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…

Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!

I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!

 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period. 

 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant. 

WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.

NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.

You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….

So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.

Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?

Lee, don’t feed the bear.

Dr. Lotsof, 
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Don

 



Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”

My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,

A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.

During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!

The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.

And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).

Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.

So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.

I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate :)


brenda



On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Brenda,
>  
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal 
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for 
> you.
>  
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were 
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 10, 2005 at 1:46:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
VERY well put, Lee, I’ve been mulling on this for a week, now. THAT doesn’t happen very often. LOL. You are inspiring as a writer, and have brought up an interesting point.
Now this is MY OPINION, and my opinion only, but I’m gonna throw this out there. There are two kinds of people. The ones that can be TOLD that they can/will/be/are healed, and those that solve the equation on their own.
In other words, is the solution “Out there” or “In here”? If I read you right, you are saying whatever works is fine. I might be reading that wrong, I’m just saying I’m much more impressed by the clarity of those not so engrossed in so much study and analysis of problems and causes. It almost seems to become “Infused” into the core of the individual lasting well past Ibo.
I’m not saying this well at all, for fear of being blasted, been thrown outta LOTS of (tee hee, made a funny, Lotsof, get it?) rooms. SO, here goes:
Therapy is not a fix, but a patch for a mind that is inconsolable on it’s own. Therapy wires the brain to encompass a solution to a problem as a fix instead of eliminating the problem. Kinda like stopping pop-ups. The problem is spyware, eliminating pop-ups may SEEM like the problem is gone, but the spyware is still running in the background, using valuable resources.  The actual PROBLEM is still there, only quelled by another action to inactivity. This is always churning in the conscious to negate the subconscious, hence the disconnect, alienation, of the therapy patient. THEN, they are taught that they have been given the “Tools” to rectify this, and since there is no “Magic pill” to install self-worth and confidence, that they are not “Utilizing” the gift that has been “Given” to them.
Haul THAT pile of crap into an Ibo session as a mindset and guess the outcome.
You cannot fix a computer if the basic logic core is compromised. Reformatting with a bad BIOS (Binary input/output system) is useless.  If it can’t add correctly, it will never add up. To anything.
If ANYBODY ever got thrown out of here, I need to be, so I will speak as if this is my last post.
Matt, you are my hero. You figgered it out, typo’s and all. Brave, dude, really brave. Bravo!!
Lee, we need to do something together, like minds and all that shit. Appreciate your clarity. Email me.
Brenda, sorry, luv ya
WOW, Deja vu. Matt would understand. Problems just do not exist.
Thanx…
Bee
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,
Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!
Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.
I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…
Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!
I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!
 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period.
 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant.
WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.
NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.
You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….
So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.
Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?
Lee, don’t feed the bear.
Dr. Lotsof,
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.
Don
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”
My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,
A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.
During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!
The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.
And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).
Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.
So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.
I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate 🙂
brenda
On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Brenda,
>
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for
> you.
>
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: abeatty@mail2go.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 75 bands
Date: December 9, 2005 at 8:36:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Could someone please post a list of the bands again. I lost mine and want to
send it to someone.
Thanx,
Andy
————————————————————
     Get your free email account at mail2go.com today!
 Click here <http://www.mail2go.com> to open your account.
————————————————————
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 9, 2005 at 2:58:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Crossing a street in San Francisco,
with an angel,
there was a glint on the blacktop
on the road to mindstates
A smashed hair pin
(turning turning on the Mohawk Trail)
with a bucking cow hand
the logo of Why-OM-ingratiatedstateofCheneySpearAssays
Wyoming, thought Eye, sublimated.
Why Wyoming, wondered Rachel, breathing.
Wyoming, muttered the wind.  Wyoming.
when?
then.
back then.
may or june
fucking matrix.
how did they do that?
Is this going to be an ibogaine civil rights case?
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: December 9, 2005 at 2:48:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Write one?
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 10 December 2005 7:28 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Hi beautiful people
pls let me know of any books about the bwiti and iboga
all my searches turned a big 000000
i know about the one by fernandez but i cant even get that at my local library….bitches!!!
love and all that good shit :]
matt
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: December 9, 2005 at 2:08:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matthew,
If you can read French you could check out the following:
Péril Blanc, René Bureau
La Naissance à l’Envers, André Marie
Paroles d’un Enfant du Bwiti:  Les enseignements d’Iboga,  Laval-Jeantet, Marion
The last one is recent, the others probably out of print. In English? Don’t know of much aside of Fernandez and some articles here and there.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: matthew zielinski [mailto:mattzielinski@hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 December 2005 18:28
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Hi beautiful people
pls let me know of any books about the bwiti and iboga
all my searches turned a big 000000
i know about the one by fernandez but i cant even get that at my local library….bitches!!!
love and all that good shit :]
matt
Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] CONSCIOUSNESS IS REAL… ALL THE REST IS MAGIC
Date: December 9, 2005 at 1:51:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the below poem goes well with my last ibo exp…..
to realize that this reality is just as magical as the other is a gift for sure….but to relize that we create everything there is —-must be enlightment!!!……couincesness …..wow!!!!! being councious …..damm!!! what a fuken high!!!!!
Cosmic Cookie

                             Before we are born into this World
                        we have to fall asleep or become unconscious
                             of the World from whence we came.
                            Every Time we enter the Earth Plane
                           we hope to gain a better understanding
                            of the Illusionary World we entered.
                                The Physical Plane of Earth
                             or the Sensory Plane of Existence
                         is more illusionary than any other Plane.
                          Most People think that this Earth Plane
                                             is
                                Something in and by itself.
                         All Planes are illusionary States of Mind.
                           The only Real Thing is Consciousness.
                            Consciousness or Mind is the Creator
                       and Creation is a Magical Scene of Realities.

                       CONSCIOUSNESS IS REAL… ALL THE REST IS MAGIC
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bwiti books?
Date: December 9, 2005 at 1:28:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi beautiful people
pls let me know of any books about the bwiti and iboga
all my searches turned a big 000000
i know about the one by fernandez but i cant even get that at my local library….bitches!!!
love and all that good shit :]
matt
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@wiretap.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Date: December 8, 2005 at 3:53:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dana’s mail is hosed at the moment.  He should be alive and unwell by this weekend.
bl1p –>
Begin forwarded message:
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Date: December 8, 2005 1:21:39 PM EST
To: digital@phantom.com
Subject: Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
Feds Announce the First Ibogaine Conspiracy Bust
by Paul DeRienzo
pdr.blogomat.com
A couple in Caspar, Wyoming was arrested by federal authorities and charged in a multi-count indictment with conspiracy to import Ibogaine from the Central American nation of Belize. It’s the first Ibogaine related conspiracy bust in recent American history. Ibogaine is a hallucinogenic drug isolated from the root-bark of a plant known as Tabernanthe iboga that grows in the rain forests of the West African nations of Cameroon and Gabon.
Ibogaine is not recognized as having any legitimate medicinal uses under United States law and is illegal to use and possess here. Ibogaine was made a schedule I drug in the early 1970s along with LSD and other similar drugs. But in the 1980s an intrepid group of former drug addicts and their supporters began to claim Ibogaine had the almost magical ability to stop drug withdrawal symptoms and reduce the craving to do drugs like heroin and cocaine.
In the years that followed thousands of US addicts were treated in guerilla clinics located in countries where Ibogaine is legal such as the Netherlands, St. Kitts, Canada, Panama, Israel and Belize. Ibogaine is rarely provided in the United States, but on Friday December 2, 2005 the US Attorney’s office in Caspar, Wyoming announced the arrest of Jack and Karen Haut, also of Caspar. According to Assistant US Attorney Kelley Rankin who spoke exclusively with this reporter from the Dick Cheney Federal Building in Caspar, the couple faces up to 20-years in prison for the alleged Ibogaine conspiracy, use of a controlled substance and an unspecified firearms offense. Rankin says no Ibogaine was ever sent to the couple involved in the conspiracy charges. US conspiracy laws make it illegal to plan a crime, even if the crime is never committed.
Rankin added that the defendants were “trying to cure their addiction,” and that “other addiction issues” were involved. He specifically mentioned the addictive narcotic pain killer hydrocodone and methadrine, a street drug also known as “speed” or “crystal meth.’ Rankin refused to give more information about the government’s charges. He said a preliminary hearing was scheduled for 4 PM mountain time on Thursday, December 8.
pdr.blogomat.com
The Ibogaine Alternative
Can Ibogaine really be the miracle addiction cure?
by By Paul DeRienzo
Imagine a drug that could eliminate a scourge that impacts the lives of more than three million Americans and more than a million western Europeans – drug addiction – with one pill.
Ibogaine was isolated from the root-bark of a plant known as Tabernanthe iboga that grows in a forested area of West Africa in Cameroon and Gabon. In Africa the plant is central to a religion known as Bwiti, one of the most resilient indigenous belief system in Africa. An initiate into the religion must eat the iboga root to induce intense visions and to “meet their ancestors.”
According to an African story, it was at the beginning of time when a god tossed bits of a Pygmy he had hacked up onto the forest floor. When the man’s widow found flowering plants growing from his flesh, the god told her to eat the root.
John, an East Village squatter who traveled to Gabon with the Peace Corps during the 1990s, became a follower of Bwiti (foreigners are welcome to become initiated) after a ceremony that included consuming what he said seemed like two pounds of sawdust. John told me it was the most difficult experience of his life, but that the psychedelic encounter changed him forever.
In the western world, the difficult process of consuming the active ingredient Ibogaine has been made a lot easier. Today you can take a capsule with Ibogaine, or even have it administered rectally; but the 36-hour experience has never been easy and the drug is illegal to possess in the United States.
Ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties were discovered – some might say rediscovered – by a 19-year old drug experimenter named Howard Lotsof while living with his parents in suburban New Jersey. A precocious teen that had been experimenting with a multiplicity of drugs, Lotsof had unwittingly become mildly hooked on heroin.
One day Lotsof was having breakfast with a friend who was active in small underground LSD scene. He turned Lotsof on to a hit of Ibogaine, but he warned, “It’s a 36-hour trip.” Lotsof held on to the Ibogaine until right before going to an appointment with his psychologist, where he described the trip to the astonished shrink: “I was walking up a ladder leading to a Š diving board over a pool. I was naked. My mother appeared beneath me with her legs open, I was diving into her vagina.” Strangest of all, Lotsof awoke refreshed after three hours of sleep without the urge to cop heroin.
On October 16, 1966 LSD became illegal in California, and by 1970 Ibogaine was listed as a Schedule I drug along with acid, heroin and cocaine. This meant the government declared the drug has no medical value.
Howard Lotsof went on to be a filmmaker and put his Ibogaine experience into the back of his mind. Ibogaine still had a spooky aura, but was rarely, if ever, a part of the drug scene. Hunter S. Thompson once joked the drug might have been used to cause Edmund Muskie’s meltdown during the 1972 Democratic primaries.
Dirty needles and shooting up heroin signaled the arrival of AIDS, and the deadly disease motivated a small group to gather around Lotsof and begin a project to provide Ibogaine to addicts. Lotsof and a companion traveled to Gabon and were granted a meeting with the African country’s president Omar Bongo, who listened as the two Americans pleaded their case for Gabon’s support. Bongo rose to the occasion and declared that, “Ibogaine is Gabon’s gift to the world.”
When they returned to America, they brought back several pounds of Tabernanthe iboga root bark donated by Gabon, and a plan to start treating addicts.
By 1986 Lotsof had started a company called NDA International. He filed patents for Ibogaine to treat addictions including opium-heroin, cocaine, amphetamine, alcohol and tobacco. NDA began the long torturous process of getting a drug approved for humans in the United States. It can cost as a much as a half-billion dollars to bring a drug from the laboratory to the market, and the vast majority of new drugs never make it through the process.
Dr. Stanley Glick at Albany Medical College was contracted to do the first animal studies, showing that Ibogaine did in fact reduce self-administration of both cocaine and heroin by mice. Soon addicts were recruited, and treatments began in the Netherlands in the 90s. Activist Robert Sisko, doing his own treatments in Holland, started an organization of addicts called The International Coalition for Addict Self-Help, working closely with the Netherlands’ well-organized junkies. But the guerilla treatments were ended when a patient being treated died. An investigation by Dutch authorities didn’t find a direct connection to the use of Ibogaine, but it slowed down research at a critical phase.
In stepped Dr. Deborah Mash, Professor of Neurology at the University of Miami School of Medicine. She had discovered coca-ethylene, a by-product of using alcohol and cocaine that explained an epidemic of cocaine overdose deaths in Miami. She first heard about Ibogaine at a conference on addiction from an African-American man, who asked her if she’d heard about something from Africa that could be used to wean people off cocaine and heroin.
Mash admits to blowing off the suggestion, until a month later when Mash attended a presentation by Stanley Glick on Ibogaine. As a scientist Mash says she became “intrigued with wanting to know exactly what the Ibogaine molecule was.” She began investigating the drug with her team, Mash says, and she discovered that like cocaine and booze, Ibogaine metabolizes in the body into a new drug that’s really the cause of its anti-addiction benefits, a drug she calls 12-hydroxyibogamine.
That discovery by Mash in Miami set the stage for a battle with Lotsof over control of his patents. The strained relationship began over Lotsof’s belief that his patents should cover all the active compounds discovered relating to Ibogaine. At that juncture, Lotsof got sick, and although he recovered was financially forced to sign away control of his patents.
Mash went on in found one of the biggest and most successful offshore Ibogaine treatment clinics on the Caribbean Island of St. Kitts. Since then, independent Ibogaine clinics have opened up in Mexico, Canada, and reopened in the Netherlands. Thousands have been treated and studies have been published with more and more evidence of Ibogaine’s value as an anti-addiction drug. The impetus has come time and again from addicts themselves who are unhappy with the alternatives: a life of addiction to heroin, methadone, or dangerous and uncomfortable so-called “ultra-rapid-detox” methods.
Recent studies show that Ibogaine and its derivatives are effective in reducing the self-administration of methamphetamine, and even better at reducing the craving for nicotine then earlier studies. Addiction, AIDS and the terrible destruction they visit on people in the US and around the world remains unabated. Each month more than 100,000 in the US alone try heroin for the first time and nearly 60% of those first-time users will go on to develop a serious heroin dependence problem that will follow them the rest of their lives. More than 2 million Americans are addicted to cocaine.
Yet, despite the explosion of medical research and miracle drugs in recent years, very little has been done medically to try and find a “magic-bullet” to cure addiction. Only 10 drugs are being studied by big pharma to treat addiction; in comparison, 400 drugs are currently being studied to treat breast cancer. Not surprisingly, it’s been the addicts themselves that have had to step up and provide the impetus to find a cure.
————–
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not the plane
Date: December 8, 2005 at 7:41:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
good afternoon my friend,
I’m glad to see you people interested in another culture or country. But that’s more or less natural for someone going so far to become interested in something like iboga.
{doesn’t Iran have a tradition of using opium for medical purposes}
opium is part of Persian traditions, it has socially speaking collective properties, even if more restricted to men. So when men use to smoke opium, they do it with a certain ceremonial, sitting on the floor, on a coloured, rough mutton hair spun mattress. Women can, but it’s exceptional, participate. More often however, the opium pipe is reached to the woman sitting with other women apart. After a smoke, she returns the pipe to the ceremony master.
The ceremony can take hours, often in the evening. Men around the brazier, her women apart between herselves. All having tea, sweets, bread, cheese and chatting.
Now where is the medical aspect? Opium is well tolerated in society for elder people who have pain. Before the revolution, doctors did prescribe opium for elder people who could then take it at the pharmacy. The costs were paid back by the social security. Like iboga in the U.S.
Now, opium is legaly prohibited. Like all drugs. There no poppy fields anymore, except wild ones in remote areas, or hidden small fields – but very very limited/few.
Since unemployment and lack of distractions hit the young population, many go for opium which comes from Afghanistan in bulk. 80% of prison inmates are convicted for drug use or traffic.
But there is big business behind, and it also keep people numb and passive. No comments.
{Alcool/culture}:
main religion here is islam, even so christians, jews and zoroastrians are tolerated, with her own temples and deputy quotas at the assembly. Islam prohibits alcool, and since religion is the main legal basis, alcool is outlawed. Christians and jews are allowed to produce it for domestic use only. No trade nor transport of it!
There is however a flourishing black market, with everything available.
Some people say that the Quran – islam’s bible – does not clearly prohibit alcool. It only mentions that one should not do the prayer whilst under influence of alcool. Besides, the Quran was written down some hundred years after the death of mohammad, islam’s prophet, who received god’s words. What he heard and what got written down, even if strictly transmitted orally, ther might be a gap, even if a very small gap.
{doctors}:
there are no specialised clinics here. Doctors can advertise their anti addiction skills in newspapers and magazines. Often they have another formation and practise anti addiction as an additional revenue. There is a large clientele out in the streets.
Sometimes, the media warns of addiction threats, that’s all.
Available treatments are methadone, ultra rapid desintoxification UROD, herbal mixtures ( some with codeine, morphine hidden and mixed in it, some not ) and of course jail.
best would be to come and see…..
love
r.p.
From: “Preston Peet” Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not the plane Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 12:15:24 -0500
Kinda like Amsterdam back in the 90s, when that apartment got plowed into and completely destroyed, built right at the end of the freakin’ runway (or beginning, depending on direction of the plane I suppose).    This is of course completely off topic, but it sure it interesting hearing from someone in Iran. That’s not a common thing for me either.    Doesn’t Iran have a tradition of using opium for medical purposes? Or is opium now totally been outlawed? alcohol your cultures were mainly against, but this isn’t really the I thought it was case, or has your country followed ours into the madness of drug prohibition to the extent your doctors really don’t know anything about helping someone in severe drug interdiction trouble?
Peace and love, Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness” Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com Editor http://www.drugwar.com Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” Cont. High Times mag/.com Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com Columnist New York Waste Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “pascall roland”
To: Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not the plane
no!
this airport is abt. 4 km far away from our house. we are in mountain hills, north tehran.
this airport is like built in the middle of the city! crazy. I wonder why not more buildings got crashed by the plane.
p.r.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:05:16 EST
In a message dated 12/7/2005 12:46:45 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Wow that  is bad Pollution.
Took the words right out of my mouth! Pascal, are you close to building plane hit? Callie
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From: mattzielinski@hotmail.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] hello
Date: December 8, 2005 at 12:33:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
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From: Carol Ann <saffireskyes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions -4-Hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine,
Date: December 8, 2005 at 12:30:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
=====================================
NEW ANSWER: ASK DR. SHULGIN ONLINE
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/
======================================
We’ve posted a new Q/A with Dr. Shulgin. This one chats about
such topics as  4-Hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine,
Psilocybe mushrooms, and ortho-vanillin.
Follow the link above.
Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics
“keeping freedom in mind”
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org
============================================
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not the plane
Date: December 7, 2005 at 12:15:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kinda like Amsterdam back in the 90s, when that apartment got plowed into and completely destroyed, built right at the end of the freakin’ runway (or beginning, depending on direction of the plane I suppose).
  This is of course completely off topic, but it sure it interesting hearing from someone in Iran. That’s not a common thing for me either.
  Doesn’t Iran have a tradition of using opium for medical purposes? Or is opium now totally been outlawed? I thought it was alcohol your cultures were mainly against, but this isn’t really the case, or has your country followed ours into the madness of drug prohibition to the extent your doctors really don’t know anything about helping someone in severe drug interdiction trouble?
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 2:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not the plane
no!
this airport is abt. 4 km far away from our house. we are in mountain hills, north tehran.
this airport is like built in the middle of the city! crazy. I wonder why not more buildings got crashed by the plane.
p.r.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:05:16 EST
In a message dated 12/7/2005 12:46:45 AM Central Standard Time,
captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Wow that  is bad Pollution.
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Pascal, are you close to building plane hit?
Callie
_________________________________________________________________
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not the plane
Date: December 7, 2005 at 2:53:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
no!
this airport is abt. 4 km far away from our house. we are in mountain hills, north tehran.
this airport is like built in the middle of the city! crazy. I wonder why not more buildings got crashed by the plane.
p.r.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 02:05:16 EST
In a message dated 12/7/2005 12:46:45 AM Central Standard Time,
captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Wow that  is bad Pollution.
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Pascal, are you close to building plane hit?
Callie
_________________________________________________________________
FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 7, 2005 at 2:41:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yesterday, 18 children got sick in my children’s school, and were sent home. Good for them, as you say.
Tehran has 18 mill. people, 4-5 million cars – many old – , no real common transport means. The city is buit at the hills of a 3-4km high mountain.
Uphills, air is better, down in the centre, pollution/smog is horrible.
My family goes for 3 days to Dubai, much better air/sea.
p.r.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 19:46:08 +1300
Wow that is bad Pollution.
Bet the children aren’t complaining…. send them all out into the country
FAST!!!
Makes me appreciate this place more I guess, hearing that…
Kirsty xx
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 7:41 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
yr statement confirms my ignorance in pharmalogy.
So I will ask around, but leave some days to revert.
Today, due to the pollution peak in the city/Tehran, the government has
yesterday evening declared all offices/administrations/schools closed! for 2
days.
b.r.
P.R.
>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:05:00 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 12/6/05 6:08:52 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
> >
> > but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
> > pain killer.
> >
> > there is tofranil, ponzac, …
> >
> > otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
> >
>
>None of the drugs you mention are sedatives or benzodiazepines.
>Acetominophene is an aspirin replacement to reduce fever and swelling and
>treat pain.
>Tofranil and ponzac, (Prozac) if that is correct are antidepressants I
>believe. …
>Still interested in what sedatives and or benzodiazepines are used in Iran
>and if they are ordered by a doctor or available over the counter without a
>prescription?   Thanks.
>
>Howard
_________________________________________________________________
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 7, 2005 at 2:05:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/7/2005 12:46:45 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Wow that is bad Pollution.
Took the words right out of my mouth!
Pascal, are you close to building plane hit?
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 7, 2005 at 1:46:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow that is bad Pollution.
Bet the children aren’t complaining…. send them all out into the country
FAST!!!
Makes me appreciate this place more I guess, hearing that…
Kirsty xx
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 7:41 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
yr statement confirms my ignorance in pharmalogy.
So I will ask around, but leave some days to revert.
Today, due to the pollution peak in the city/Tehran, the government has
yesterday evening declared all offices/administrations/schools closed! for 2
days.
b.r.
P.R.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:05:00 EST
In a message dated 12/6/05 6:08:52 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
pain killer.
there is tofranil, ponzac, …
otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
None of the drugs you mention are sedatives or benzodiazepines.
Acetominophene is an aspirin replacement to reduce fever and swelling and
treat pain.
Tofranil and ponzac, (Prozac) if that is correct are antidepressants I
believe. …
Still interested in what sedatives and or benzodiazepines are used in Iran
and if they are ordered by a doctor or available over the counter without a
prescription?   Thanks.
Howard
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 7, 2005 at 1:40:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yr statement confirms my ignorance in pharmalogy.
So I will ask around, but leave some days to revert.
Today, due to the pollution peak in the city/Tehran, the government has yesterday evening declared all offices/administrations/schools closed! for 2 days.
b.r.
P.R.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 11:05:00 EST
In a message dated 12/6/05 6:08:52 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
> never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
>
> but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
> pain killer.
>
> there is tofranil, ponzac, …
>
> otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
>
None of the drugs you mention are sedatives or benzodiazepines.
Acetominophene is an aspirin replacement to reduce fever and swelling and treat pain.
Tofranil and ponzac, (Prozac) if that is correct are antidepressants I believe. …
Still interested in what sedatives and or benzodiazepines are used in Iran
and if they are ordered by a doctor or available over the counter without a
prescription?   Thanks.
Howard
_________________________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 11:05:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/6/05 6:08:52 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
pain killer.
there is tofranil, ponzac, …
otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
None of the drugs you mention are sedatives or benzodiazepines. Acetominophene is an aspirin replacement to reduce fever and swelling and treat pain. Tofranil and ponzac, (Prozac) if that is correct are antidepressants I believe. … Still interested in what sedatives and or benzodiazepines are used in Iran and if they are ordered by a doctor or available over the counter without a prescription?  Thanks.
Howard
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not sedatives
Date: December 6, 2005 at 9:06:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Valium , temazemapam, but more recently I have discovered a benzo called
Rivitrol that really agrees with me, again… these drugs were originallyl
made with the woman’s system in mind (keep the bitch happy mother’s little
helpers…. lol) so they don’t always agree with the male system. As I have
seen repeatedly with aggression brought on by benzo’s and males.
K
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 1:02 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not sedatives
which ones?
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:32:57 +1300
Not for everyone but sedatives help a lot with my withdrawals.
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
pain killer.
there is tofranil, ponzac, …
otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
b.r.
p.r.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 03:05:31 EST
What sedatives are used in Iran?   Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety,
sedative hypnotics in one form or another.   There are many   varieties.
Howard
In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
because?????
no way for the party.
p.r.
_________________________________________________________________
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Benzos/naltrexone
Date: December 6, 2005 at 8:46:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Benzos and opiates/naltrexone hit completely difference receptors in the brain:  GAMA vs. endorphin receptors.  No cross dependency.  Benzos help you “sleep,” but not especially good sleep quality.  The magic of Ibogaine may be that it restores REM-Stage Sleep, which only psychedelic drugs can do.  Most all of us need to get more REM-Sleep, it may ventilate our emotional conflicts, find resolutions and it definitely relaxes our muscles (the only time in 24 hours that our muscles are totally relaxed (paralyzed) is during REM-Sleep).  No wonder we feel “washed out and weak” (totally relaxed) when awakening after lots of dreaming.  Perhaps this is why we are so weak, dizzy and flat out, when experiencing Ibogaine’s reveries.  Lack of REM-Sleep may also be a most important part of “arthritis, arthalgia, backaches” of all types.  Chiropracters may be the only ones who know how to relax (briefly) the chronic muscle tension that comes from inadequate REM-Sleep.  On the other side, REM-suppressing drugs (alcohol, opiates, barbs) don’t suppress Slow-Wave-Sleep (SWS), as much, which allows BODY healing.  Maybe this is why many of you are as physically healthy and resistent as you are.  Eventually, too much need to REM, eats away at the SWS as well, e.g. alcoholism.  For what it’s worth?  Dr. Ed
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not sedatives
Date: December 6, 2005 at 7:02:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
which ones?
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:32:57 +1300
Not for everyone but sedatives help a lot with my withdrawals.
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
pain killer.
there is tofranil, ponzac, …
otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
b.r.
p.r.
>From: HSLotsof@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
>Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 03:05:31 EST
>
>What sedatives are used in Iran?   Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety,
>sedative hypnotics in one form or another.   There are many   varieties.
>
>Howard
>
>In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> > Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
> >
> > what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
> > because?????
> >
> > no way for the party.
> >
> > p.r.
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 6:32:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Not for everyone but sedatives help a lot with my withdrawals.
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a
pain killer.
there is tofranil, ponzac, …
otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
b.r.
p.r.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 03:05:31 EST
What sedatives are used in Iran?   Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety,
sedative hypnotics in one form or another.   There are many   varieties.
Howard
In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
because?????
no way for the party.
p.r.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not/naltrexone..
Date: December 6, 2005 at 6:11:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
My sympathies to you my friend for your ignorant doctor]
Hope you go the Ibogaine way.]
Love n light
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 12:04 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not/naltrexone..
Hi Captain,
why taking naltrexone?
My doctor prescribed metha.(21 days/regressive daily dosis). He gave me some
naltrexone tablets explaining me that I could you one table from time to
time when I feel the desire to return to opiates.
He clearly told me not to take naltrexone when using opiate, even standing
next to someone smoking opiates.
So when my metha. cure was going towards the end, I took a half of a half of
a half ..piece from a tablet. Like to replace the opiate feeling.
What an error.
b.r.
p.r.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:50:40 +1300
LOL cheeky bitch!!
Bloody aussies
Pascall.. sorry man, language barriers n all that!!!!
Let me clarify….. I am wondering, apart from Overdose why someone would
take Naltrexone.   Voluntarilly.  It sounds awful!!!
As for the party.. I meant burning it in a fire… to get rid of it.. but I
guess like some drugs out there…… there is a purpose for it somewhere
along the line, just not ENOUGH valid information for those who end up
using
it.
grrrr@medical profession once again.
NO offence to our good doc here.  I love my doctor at the Clinic. AND my
beautiful addiction counsellor was on the news last night…. Fiona Owens
collected donations and bought tents, sleeping bags etc and travelled to
remote areas of Turkey to deliver them personally to the people there
before
the snows set in. What a cool woman.  Mostly she was trying to help the
women there because unless they have a husband they cannot go and ask for
aid.  So, those alone, or widowed even, from the earthquake are basically
SCREWED!! So, bless this beautiful woman for her efforts. Truly amazing.
She
paid for her trip herself. Any donations went towards the relief efforts.
And mostly for the disadvantaged women in remote areas where aid has not
reached.
Wow.
I am in awe of this effort seriously.
Can’t wait to go give her a HUGE hug.
Kirsty Dawn xxxxxxx
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 9:23 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Hey Kirsty,
Ya bloody Kiwi,..haaa,..call me a bloody Aussie will ya, ay ay.
I am pretty sure that Naltrexone does not affect Benzo’s.
Maybe the good doctor can clarify.
                                               love ya girl, Jasen
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 6:08:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
never needed sedatives ( you imagine why )
but heard abt. acetominophene ( with or without codeine ) – but that’s a pain killer.
there is tofranil, ponzac, …
otherwise, should look in our pharmacy or pharmacy shop and ask.
b.r.
p.r.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 03:05:31 EST
What sedatives are used in Iran?   Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety,
sedative hypnotics in one form or another.   There are many   varieties.
Howard
In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
> Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
>
> what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
> because?????
>
> no way for the party.
>
> p.r.
>
>
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not/naltrexone..
Date: December 6, 2005 at 6:04:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Captain,
why taking naltrexone?
My doctor prescribed metha.(21 days/regressive daily dosis). He gave me some naltrexone tablets explaining me that I could you one table from time to time when I feel the desire to return to opiates.
He clearly told me not to take naltrexone when using opiate, even standing next to someone smoking opiates.
So when my metha. cure was going towards the end, I took a half of a half of a half ..piece from a tablet. Like to replace the opiate feeling.
What an error.
b.r.
p.r.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 21:50:40 +1300
LOL cheeky bitch!!
Bloody aussies
Pascall.. sorry man, language barriers n all that!!!!
Let me clarify….. I am wondering, apart from Overdose why someone would
take Naltrexone.   Voluntarilly.  It sounds awful!!!
As for the party.. I meant burning it in a fire… to get rid of it.. but I
guess like some drugs out there…… there is a purpose for it somewhere
along the line, just not ENOUGH valid information for those who end up using
it.
grrrr@medical profession once again.
NO offence to our good doc here.  I love my doctor at the Clinic. AND my
beautiful addiction counsellor was on the news last night…. Fiona Owens
collected donations and bought tents, sleeping bags etc and travelled to
remote areas of Turkey to deliver them personally to the people there before
the snows set in. What a cool woman.  Mostly she was trying to help the
women there because unless they have a husband they cannot go and ask for
aid.  So, those alone, or widowed even, from the earthquake are basically
SCREWED!! So, bless this beautiful woman for her efforts. Truly amazing. She
paid for her trip herself. Any donations went towards the relief efforts.
And mostly for the disadvantaged women in remote areas where aid has not
reached.
Wow.
I am in awe of this effort seriously.
Can’t wait to go give her a HUGE hug.
Kirsty Dawn xxxxxxx
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 9:23 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Hey Kirsty,
Ya bloody Kiwi,..haaa,..call me a bloody Aussie will ya, ay ay.
I am pretty sure that Naltrexone does not affect Benzo’s.
Maybe the good doctor can clarify.
                                               love ya girl, Jasen
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 3:51:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Duhh jasen wot a Bezo?????
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 9:43 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
  Hey Pascall,
  Bezo’s as Howard said, are sedatives.  I know that you would understand what valium is,..these
  are considered Benzo’s. Also Serapax I am pretty sure are also considered Benzo’s.
  Basically sleeping tablets.
                                                                  with love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
What sedatives are used in Iran?  Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety, sedative hypnotics in one form or another.  There are many  varieties.  

Howard

In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.

what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
because?????

no way for the party.

p.r.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 3:50:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL cheeky bitch!!
Bloody aussies
Pascall.. sorry man, language barriers n all that!!!!
Let me clarify….. I am wondering, apart from Overdose why someone would
take Naltrexone.   Voluntarilly.  It sounds awful!!!
As for the party.. I meant burning it in a fire… to get rid of it.. but I
guess like some drugs out there…… there is a purpose for it somewhere
along the line, just not ENOUGH valid information for those who end up using
it.
grrrr@medical profession once again.
NO offence to our good doc here.  I love my doctor at the Clinic. AND my
beautiful addiction counsellor was on the news last night…. Fiona Owens
collected donations and bought tents, sleeping bags etc and travelled to
remote areas of Turkey to deliver them personally to the people there before
the snows set in. What a cool woman.  Mostly she was trying to help the
women there because unless they have a husband they cannot go and ask for
aid.  So, those alone, or widowed even, from the earthquake are basically
SCREWED!! So, bless this beautiful woman for her efforts. Truly amazing. She
paid for her trip herself. Any donations went towards the relief efforts.
And mostly for the disadvantaged women in remote areas where aid has not
reached.
Wow.
I am in awe of this effort seriously.
Can’t wait to go give her a HUGE hug.
Kirsty Dawn xxxxxxx
—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 9:23 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Hey Kirsty,
Ya bloody Kiwi,..haaa,..call me a bloody Aussie will ya, ay ay.
I am pretty sure that Naltrexone does not affect Benzo’s.
Maybe the good doctor can clarify.
                                               love ya girl, Jasen
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 3:42:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
  Hey Pascall,
  Bezo’s as Howard said, are sedatives.  I know that you would understand what valium is,..these
  are considered Benzo’s. Also Serapax I am pretty sure are also considered Benzo’s.
  Basically sleeping tablets.
                                                                  with love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
What sedatives are used in Iran?  Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety, sedative hypnotics in one form or another.  There are many  varieties.
Howard
In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
because?????
no way for the party.
p.r.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 3:22:37 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Kirsty,
Ya bloody Kiwi,..haaa,..call me a bloody Aussie will ya, ay ay.
I am pretty sure that Naltrexone does not affect Benzo’s.
Maybe the good doctor can clarify.
                                              love ya girl, Jasen
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 3:05:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What sedatives are used in Iran?  Benzo(diazepines) are antianxiety, sedative hypnotics in one form or another.  There are many  varieties.
Howard
In a message dated 12/6/05 2:59:29 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this
because?????
no way for the party.
p.r.
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 6, 2005 at 2:59:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Benzo unknown to me. Never heard abt., nor here in society.
what do you mean by….that is really fucked up / want to take this because?????
no way for the party.
p.r.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 07:04:16 +1300
What about Benzo’s, are they too affected by this Devil Drug???
Fuck that, no excuses for language, but that is really really fucked up!!!!!
And one would want to take this because???????
Let’s have a Naltrexone burning party!! Wooooooo
Kirk xxx
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 12:06 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Hi Callie,
100% confirm Jasen’s report abt. pain caused by Naltrexone and opiates
interaction!
One should be absolutely free of any opiate traces in the body – means full
abstinence for at least 2 weeks – before taking any amount of Naltrexone.
2-3 years ago, after 2 week opium abstinence, but being still under very
light methadone treatment, I took the equivalent of 1mm3 Naltrexone tablet –
means nearly nothing – and underwent the worse pain ever experienced in my
life. Within 10 minutes my body started burning, followed heavy sweating,
stomach pain, vomiting etc…… I decided to drive home – 15 minutes car –
but with extreme difficulties managed to arrive home.
After a couple of hours, I thought abt suicide as there was no escape from
such hell of a pain. And returning to opiatre was totaly excluded as it
would only worsen the case. By despair I went to a neuro…specialised
hospital close from home. I had to tell them by story – at the risk of being
reported to the police and being jail sentenced to life ( in U.AE death
penalty is very common for drug dealers,like Singapore ).
The doctor was kind but couldn’t or did not know how to help. No relief
possible.
Handle Naltrexone with extreme care…..
love
P.R.
>From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
>Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:09:12 +1000
>
>   Hey Callie,
>
>   Naltrexone stops you from feeling the stone,..well,…you have to have a
>lot lot lot more if you want a buzz.
>
>   It stops a little of the craving and if you do decide to use you wont
>feel it unless you have a mega amount.
>
>   If you still have opiates in your system when taking Naltrexone you will
>withdrawal severely. I saw my late
>   brother go through it and I have not ever seen him so sick,..the first
>time I ever saw him break down and cry.
>   I held him while he cried in frustration and pain,.and he was a strong
>man.
>
>   If you are on Naltrexone and you are in a serious accident and need pain
>relief it makes it very difficult for
>   the docters.
>
>  I am not saying Naltrexone is good or bad,.,.just my observations.
>
>   Howard thankyou for the article.
>
>
>    with love, Jasen
>   —– Original Message —–
>   From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
>
>
>   Naltrexone does not curb craving, does it? Evidently Abbott is not an
>addict or has ever loved an addict. He has probably known a few or known of
>a few and had great distaste for them! If he had ever really known an
>addict, he would know that the physical act of taking the drug or not
>taking the drugs is only a very, very, very small part of addiction. Making
>addicts not use will cause a lot of destruction in Australia! That is
>taking a coping skill away from someone and a lot of people who can’t cope
>can get ugly really quick!
>   I will be interested to see how the land down under handles this.
>   Callie
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From: “Tuxedo Machine” <tuxmachine@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] MUSIC
Date: December 5, 2005 at 5:11:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m taking the plunge soon, wondering how important is it to have music playing throughout the ibogaine experience?
Any recommendations? Could I just listen to Vivaldi or something or is that too fast and dramatic?
I’ve heard some people listen to Bwiti drumming, can anyone help me out with that?
Cheers
Tux
_________________________________________________________________
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meditation
Date: December 5, 2005 at 4:04:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Luke,
I do practice meditation.  It depends on how much blocked energy I’ve been
able to release which these days I’ve found I can dissipate through a very
focused hatha yoga practice – like I experienced last night.  I was very
clear and present all night after that, slept great and had a wonderful
meditation this morning.  I find that my best meditations bring me to a
place of relaxed present moment awareness rather than insights into things
I’m working through.
There are other methods of releasing the actual stuck emotional energy I’m
looking into.  That feels right for me 🙂
brenda
I found meditation can sometimes help to bring more insights after
ibogaine. Or maybe you can recall more of the experience with
meditation.
Luke
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meditation
Date: December 5, 2005 at 3:53:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Luke,
I do practice meditation.  It depends on how much blocked energy I’ve been
able to release
I found meditation can sometimes help to bring more insights after
ibogaine. Or maybe you can recall more of the experience with
meditation.
Luke
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 5, 2005 at 3:49:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Callie again wrote something very wise:
>I think it is very important to be honest with ourselves about what we are capable of doing or not doing. Otherwise you are a miserable being.<
Hear, hear!
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
wow Pascal! You have been down through there haven’t you? If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what is you current status? Are you doing opium daily? Do you all have Methadone clinics in Iran?
I have read and heard you say that opiate addiction is very common in your country. Does the medical community address addiction at all? Do you have Methadone or Buprenex clinics available? Are there any twelve step groups like Narcotics Anonymous there? Are the women of your country addicted too?
I am so happy you found this list! As far as I know you are the first Iranian to post. You are very courageous.
Please share more about yourself and your life.
Thanks for sharing about your experience with Naltrexone. I am a Practical Nurse and I have seen one patient given Narcan (version of Naltrexone) in ER for overdose and he was evidently an addict and he was very sick but I have never experienced it personally.
I would never agree to an implant. I know that I am not strong enough to not use opiates. I would be trying to take the implant out so I could use. I think it is very important to be honest with ourselves about what we are capable of doing or not doing. Otherwise you are a miserable being.
Callie
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] AlphaLipoicAcid
Date: December 5, 2005 at 3:28:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I was just trying this AlphaLipoicAcid supplement out last weekin low
doses as an antioxidant and for memory and it seemed to bring up
memories of some of my ibogaine sessions more clearly.
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsAlphaLipoicAcid.php
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Brenda, et al: (& Luke)
Date: December 5, 2005 at 3:15:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I found meditation can sometimes help to bring more insights after
ibogaine. Or maybe you can recall more of the experience with
meditation.
Luke
On 12/2/05, shakti@photon.net <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi,
I have experience 🙂  Yes, I suffered from loss of REM for many years
begining with the onset of PTSD.  That’s probably not big news to most – I
don’t know.
I do wonder what the connection meditation and “presence” work may have –
I hope to meet some people soon that are invloved in it.  As you said Dr.
Ed, the connection that we always have – it’s legal and free so that it my
ultimate goal.
I will share my findings as the weeks go on.  Until then, I’ll be taking
one step at a time 🙂
brenda
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 5, 2005 at 3:12:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Matt,
         That’s a whopper of a dose, must have been very intense.  I
took such a dose but dived up so I think I puked up some of it but it
lasted a long time. I think the images moved at a faster speed that
time.
Luke
On 12/1/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Luke
i took it all in one dose.  I was supose to divide in  two doses but i knew
it would be hard to get it down later on
but fuk what an experience this was….im still overwhelmed by
everything…..for some strange reason even the first reberthing experience
wasnst as intense
btw anybody else gets that weird feeling on ibogaine when all those weird
people//animals/beings give you that eerie look….i always feel guilty
somehow….i always had the feeling they know im on ibogaine and try to
convey to me that this is a real serious event in my life…that intense
look in their eyes is undescribable
good good good
good
love
m
________________________________
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:18:05 +0000
Hi Matt,
Was 25mg/kg your last trip? Did you take it in one does?
Luke
On 11/30/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi
Yah its funny how people complain about useless talk but dont even take
time
to answer legitimate questions people ask
Bruce i just took around 25mg/kg without being dependent on anything but
life :}
Pacal —i think u ll get more responses if you adress the particular
question in the subject line becuase most people dont bother opening their
mail unless they see something that interests them
love
m
________________________________
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:31:15 +0000 (GMT)
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for
a
first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts
required
for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g
is
taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well
documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect
on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
Subject: questions
Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
weight
around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least
in
my
brief research.
Bruce
_________________________________________________________________
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a
six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Underground news and a favor to ask
Date: December 5, 2005 at 1:49:34 PM EST
To: <disinfolks@disinfo.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all, (and PLEASE excuse massive cross posting)
Within the span of literally 2 minutes just now, my new book “Underground” went from an Amazon sales ranking of 9,664, to what you see below, 6,670. (Of course, by now it’s probably dropping again, but who knows, it’s pretty erratic there in terms of sales rankings I’ve discovered but 6,670 is the highest it’s been- but Under the Influence NEVER did this well, not even in the beginning when first published.)
(btw, this is only off-topic for a couple of the lists I’m posting this note to in the sense that it’s not about drugs or ibogaine specifically, although Dan Russell does have a brilliant article called “Plants of Gnosis” in Underground, so it does pertain to drugs in that sense, including those similar to ibogaine- but because I’m living proof that one can take drugs, stop taking drugs, take more drugs, go totally clean, smoke pot, occassionally drink a beer, or not, etc, which in turn means that a so-called “druggie” as most anyone on any of these lists knows already, can get stuff accomplished and don’t all stare at walls or the tv or videogames despite prohibitionist lines to the contrary-although I do occassionally do all and more of this sort of thing, having always been a daydreamer and lover of games)
     I’m thrilled to say the least, not only because of how many book Amazon sells each day of however many books they carry (and that my first, much more serious journalistic endeavor Under the Influence is down around 500,000 something at Amazon right now, a year after release), and that just last night Underground was at 23,000 something and I was feeling a bit depressed about that too, watching the sales gradually erode away, but suddenly this morning, as noted, they not only started off above the 10,000 mark (first time), they’re now near the 5000 mark.
  Please all, anyone interested in Ancient Civiliazations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History, let others know about this book. It was a whole lot of fun putting it together, and much more fun to see and read the finished product. So if you know anywhere you can post notice, any lists, groups (a review at Amazon perhaps?), anything at all that will help this book continue to sell, please help me out by spreading word far and wide about this book.
  And to all the contributors included in the mass emailing, if you have any way of further spreading word about the book, please feel free to do so, offer blubs or reviews in your magazine/websites/email lists, whatever you might be able to think of, please, to help get this book even more notice. Also, thanks to all of you who did contribute and made it into the book, and to those who contributed but didn’t get their work in for whatever the reason- to you all I hold nothing but sincerest gratitude.
AMAZON Product Details
Paperback: 360 pages
Publisher: The Disinformation Company (October 15, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN: 1932857192
Product Dimensions: 10.9 x 8.6 x 0.9 inches
Shipping Weight: 2.5 pounds. (View shipping rates and policies)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #6,670 in Books
(Publishers and authors: improve your sales)
About the book:
UNDERGROUND! The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History
Edited by Preston Peet
Coming November 2005 from Disinformation Books
Oversized Softcover . 344 pp . US$24.95 . ISBN 1-932857-19-2
Distributed to the Trade in the US & Canada by Consortium Book Sales & Distribution.
Available in The Disinformation Store.
Why were the Nazis sending archaeologists to dig and explore around the globe?
Did the Holy Grail really exist, and was it discovered and subsequently hidden away?
Were ancient Egyptians using South American drugs millennia before Columbus arrived on New World shores?
Have mainstream archaeologists covered-up, or worse, destroyed finds that would discredit their establishment version of our past?
Was the Earth visited by ancient astronauts, or did it suffer collisions with a comet or asteroid, and do ancient myths and tales describe these visits and disasters in graphic detail?
Who is it that actually explores for lost cities and human remains in the more exotic, remote and dangerous locales, and who is it digging and sweating in the trenches with shovel and trowel?
In this massive book you’ll also learn from the leading voices in their fields-previously unknown or obscure facts about human history-including astounding information on:
Advanced antediluvian civilizations and explorations.
Pre-Columbian contacts between “Old” and “New” Worlds with sea voyages of adventure and trade undertaken in both directions.
Archaeological sites laid out in various alignments across vast distances, mapping out the sky here on Earth.
Stones and building blocks of impossible sizes and weights lifted into place on the tops of mountains, forming massive, fortress-like monuments in the sky.
Remains of source civilizations buried under the waves off the coasts of Japan and India.
If you think the history you were taught in school was accurate, you’re in for a rude surprise. This group of researchers blows the lid off everything you thought you knew about the origins of man!
Graham Hancock explores some of the incredible underwater structures off the coast of Japan at Yonaguni and Kerama.
Robert Schoch suggests the Egyptian Sphinx to be much older than mainstream Egyptologists claim, and examines the similarities between the numerous pyramid building cultures around the ancient world.
William R. Corliss shows that ancient peoples knew far more about designing, building and using scientific instruments for a variety of purposes, and Erich von Däniken postulates that there may have been human aviation in our hoary past.
David Hatcher-Childress questions whether or not the ancient Incas really built Machu Picchu.
Colin Wilson takes us on “an investigation into the age of civilization” while Michael Cremo examines alternatives to Darwinism.
John Anthony West wonders why the most ancient of Egyptian cultures were to all intents and purposes the most advanced, while Christopher Dunn illustrates and examines multitudinous evidence of machining and other advanced mechanical technology of ancient Egyptians.
Frank Joseph takes us to the enigmatic Nan Modal in the South Pacific and George Erikson examines the accomplishments of ancient navigators and why he thinks Atlantis might very well have been in Central America and the Caribbean.
Buy UNDERGROUND! in The Disinformation Store!
Also by edited by Preston Peet:
Under The Influence: The Disinformation Guide to Drugs
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 5, 2005 at 1:04:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What about Benzo’s, are they too affected by this Devil Drug???
Fuck that, no excuses for language, but that is really really fucked up!!!!!
And one would want to take this because???????
Let’s have a Naltrexone burning party!! Wooooooo
Kirk xxx
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 December 2005 12:06 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Hi Callie,
100% confirm Jasen’s report abt. pain caused by Naltrexone and opiates
interaction!
One should be absolutely free of any opiate traces in the body – means full
abstinence for at least 2 weeks – before taking any amount of Naltrexone.
2-3 years ago, after 2 week opium abstinence, but being still under very
light methadone treatment, I took the equivalent of 1mm3 Naltrexone tablet –
means nearly nothing – and underwent the worse pain ever experienced in my
life. Within 10 minutes my body started burning, followed heavy sweating,
stomach pain, vomiting etc…… I decided to drive home – 15 minutes car –
but with extreme difficulties managed to arrive home.
After a couple of hours, I thought abt suicide as there was no escape from
such hell of a pain. And returning to opiatre was totaly excluded as it
would only worsen the case. By despair I went to a neuro…specialised
hospital close from home. I had to tell them by story – at the risk of being
reported to the police and being jail sentenced to life ( in U.AE death
penalty is very common for drug dealers,like Singapore ).
The doctor was kind but couldn’t or did not know how to help. No relief
possible.
Handle Naltrexone with extreme care…..
love
P.R.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:09:12 +1000
 Hey Callie,
 Naltrexone stops you from feeling the stone,..well,…you have to have a
lot lot lot more if you want a buzz.
 It stops a little of the craving and if you do decide to use you wont
feel it unless you have a mega amount.
 If you still have opiates in your system when taking Naltrexone you will
withdrawal severely. I saw my late
 brother go through it and I have not ever seen him so sick,..the first
time I ever saw him break down and cry.
 I held him while he cried in frustration and pain,.and he was a strong
man.
 If you are on Naltrexone and you are in a serious accident and need pain
relief it makes it very difficult for
 the docters.
I am not saying Naltrexone is good or bad,.,.just my observations.
 Howard thankyou for the article.
  with love, Jasen
 —– Original Message —–
 From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
 Naltrexone does not curb craving, does it? Evidently Abbott is not an
addict or has ever loved an addict. He has probably known a few or known of
a few and had great distaste for them! If he had ever really known an
addict, he would know that the physical act of taking the drug or not
taking the drugs is only a very, very, very small part of addiction. Making
addicts not use will cause a lot of destruction in Australia! That is
taking a coping skill away from someone and a lot of people who can’t cope
can get ugly really quick!
 I will be interested to see how the land down under handles this.
 Callie
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 5, 2005 at 12:56:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
wow Pascal! You have been down through there haven’t you? If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what is you current status? Are you doing opium daily? Do you all have Methadone clinics in Iran?
I have read and heard you say that opiate addiction is very common in your country. Does the medical community address addiction at all? Do you have Methadone or Buprenex clinics available? Are there any twelve step groups like Narcotics Anonymous there? Are the women of your country addicted too?
I am so happy you found this list! As far as I know you are the first Iranian to post. You are very courageous.
Please share more about yourself and your life.
Thanks for sharing about your experience with Naltrexone. I am a Practical Nurse and I have seen one patient given Narcan (version of Naltrexone) in ER for overdose and he was evidently an addict and he was very sick but I have never experienced it personally.
I would never agree to an implant. I know that I am not strong enough to not use opiates. I would be trying to take the implant out so I could use. I think it is very important to be honest with ourselves about what we are capable of doing or not doing. Otherwise you are a miserable being.
Callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 5, 2005 at 6:06:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Callie,
100% confirm Jasen’s report abt. pain caused by Naltrexone and opiates interaction!
One should be absolutely free of any opiate traces in the body – means full abstinence for at least 2 weeks – before taking any amount of Naltrexone.
2-3 years ago, after 2 week opium abstinence, but being still under very light methadone treatment, I took the equivalent of 1mm3 Naltrexone tablet – means nearly nothing – and underwent the worse pain ever experienced in my life. Within 10 minutes my body started burning, followed heavy sweating, stomach pain, vomiting etc…… I decided to drive home – 15 minutes car – but with extreme difficulties managed to arrive home.
After a couple of hours, I thought abt suicide as there was no escape from such hell of a pain. And returning to opiatre was totaly excluded as it would only worsen the case. By despair I went to a neuro…specialised hospital close from home. I had to tell them by story – at the risk of being reported to the police and being jail sentenced to life ( in U.AE death penalty is very common for drug dealers,like Singapore ).
The doctor was kind but couldn’t or did not know how to help. No relief possible.
Handle Naltrexone with extreme care…..
love
P.R.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:09:12 +1000
 Hey Callie,
 Naltrexone stops you from feeling the stone,..well,…you have to have a lot lot lot more if you want a buzz.
 It stops a little of the craving and if you do decide to use you wont feel it unless you have a mega amount.
 If you still have opiates in your system when taking Naltrexone you will withdrawal severely. I saw my late
 brother go through it and I have not ever seen him so sick,..the first time I ever saw him break down and cry.
 I held him while he cried in frustration and pain,.and he was a strong man.
 If you are on Naltrexone and you are in a serious accident and need pain relief it makes it very difficult for
 the docters.
I am not saying Naltrexone is good or bad,.,.just my observations.
 Howard thankyou for the article.
                                                                             with love, Jasen
 —– Original Message —–
 From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
 Naltrexone does not curb craving, does it? Evidently Abbott is not an addict or has ever loved an addict. He has probably known a few or known of a few and had great distaste for them! If he had ever really known an addict, he would know that the physical act of taking the drug or not taking the drugs is only a very, very, very small part of addiction. Making addicts not use will cause a lot of destruction in Australia! That is taking a coping skill away from someone and a lot of people who can’t cope can get ugly really quick!
 I will be interested to see how the land down under handles this.
 Callie
_________________________________________________________________
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From: Dwight Muller <dwightmuller@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Access to Ibogaine in South Africa?
Date: December 5, 2005 at 5:29:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi all of you!
I have just joined the list after watching the Ibogaine documentary ‘Rite of Passage’. My friend and i were amazed that this substance has been known by western science since the sixties yet it seems to be totally unavailable (infact illegal?) despite what seems to be its miraculous ability to release one from addictive behaviourial tendencies and facilitating the resolution of deep traumas. We are in Cape Town, South Africa and are very keen to try the substance in an effort to deal with cannabis dependancy and a general tendency toward addictive, obsessive behaviour but so far have drawn a blank in finding a source for Ibogaine. Could anyone help us in locating a supplier or therapists here in South Africa?
many thanks
Dwight
‘It is no sign of mental health to be well adjusted to a sick society.’
– Krishnamurti –
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 5, 2005 at 12:53:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
BLUDDY AUSSIES!!
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Monday, 5 December 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
  Hey Callie,
  Naltrexone stops you from feeling the stone,..well,…you have to have a lot lot lot more if you want a buzz.
  It stops a little of the craving and if you do decide to use you wont feel it unless you have a mega amount.
  If you still have opiates in your system when taking Naltrexone you will withdrawal severely. I saw my late
  brother go through it and I have not ever seen him so sick,..the first time I ever saw him break down and cry.
  I held him while he cried in frustration and pain,.and he was a strong man.
  If you are on Naltrexone and you are in a serious accident and need pain relief it makes it very difficult for
  the docters.
 I am not saying Naltrexone is good or bad,.,.just my observations.
  Howard thankyou for the article.
                                                                              with love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Naltrexone does not curb craving, does it? Evidently Abbott is not an addict or has ever loved an addict. He has probably known a few or known of a few and had great distaste for them! If he had ever really known an addict, he would know that the physical act of taking the drug or not taking the drugs is only a very, very, very small part of addiction. Making addicts not use will cause a lot of destruction in Australia! That is taking a coping skill away from someone and a lot of people who can’t cope can get ugly really quick!
I will be interested to see how the land down under handles this.
Callie
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 5, 2005 at 12:09:12 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
  Hey Callie,
  Naltrexone stops you from feeling the stone,..well,…you have to have a lot lot lot more if you want a buzz.
  It stops a little of the craving and if you do decide to use you wont feel it unless you have a mega amount.
  If you still have opiates in your system when taking Naltrexone you will withdrawal severely. I saw my late
  brother go through it and I have not ever seen him so sick,..the first time I ever saw him break down and cry.
  I held him while he cried in frustration and pain,.and he was a strong man.
  If you are on Naltrexone and you are in a serious accident and need pain relief it makes it very difficult for
  the docters.
 I am not saying Naltrexone is good or bad,.,.just my observations.
  Howard thankyou for the article.
                                                                              with love, Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Naltrexone does not curb craving, does it? Evidently Abbott is not an addict or has ever loved an addict. He has probably known a few or known of a few and had great distaste for them! If he had ever really known an addict, he would know that the physical act of taking the drug or not taking the drugs is only a very, very, very small part of addiction. Making addicts not use will cause a lot of destruction in Australia! That is taking a coping skill away from someone and a lot of people who can’t cope can get ugly really quick!
I will be interested to see how the land down under handles this.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 4, 2005 at 11:53:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Naltrexone does not curb craving, does it? Evidently Abbott is not an addict or has ever loved an addict. He has probably known a few or known of a few and had great distaste for them! If he had ever really known an addict, he would know that the physical act of taking the drug or not taking the drugs is only a very, very, very small part of addiction. Making addicts not use will cause a lot of destruction in Australia! That is taking a coping skill away from someone and a lot of people who can’t cope can get ugly really quick!
I will be interested to see how the land down under handles this.
Callie
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ausies take not
Date: December 4, 2005 at 11:11:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Personally, I think Abbott;s mentality is a sin.  However, as Minister Abbott wants to look into rapid withdrawal therapies, he ought to be asked why ibogaine is a restricted substance in Australia.
Howard
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/12/02/1133422115562.html
Abbott urges cold turkey for methadone addicts
By Julie Robotham
December 3, 2005
Advertisement
Advertisement
People who use the heroin substitute methadone will be encouraged to kick their drug addiction completely using a treatment that sends them into immediate withdrawal, under an option being considered by the federal Health Department.
Health Minister Tony Abbott confirmed he wanted to expand access to rapid detoxification services using the drug naltrexone, which fights addiction by neutralising the body’s response to opiates such as heroin and methadone.
The plan, which ups the ante in the Government’s abstinence-based Tough on Drugs strategy, comes in response to the growing number of people in long-term treatment with methadone.
The National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre estimates that methadone costs on average $9.63 a day per patient.
Mr Abbott said: “Methadone is an important part of our response to the drug problem but in the end it’s just a substitution of a legal for an illegal product.
“It doesn’t stop people being addicts. This Government would like to see people off drugs. One accepts that naltrexone treatment in this country is not always regarded as mainstream but I think it shows great promise. It has this great benefit that it controls the craving.”
Mr Abbott has asked the department to advise on ways of making the treatment more widely accessible. At present there is no Medicare funding for the detox procedure performed under sedation in doctors’ rooms.
Naltrexone is subsidised through the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme for alcohol addiction but not for drug use.
Mr Abbott last month made a $50,000 special grant to the Sydney-based Psych n Soul clinic, which offers rapid detoxification, slow-release naltrexone implants to help people remain drug-free and intensive counselling. A West Australian clinic has also received a $100,000 grant.
Methadone was “a form of social control”, Mr Colquhoun said. “There’s no exit strategy.”
Mr Colquhoun said one in three of his clients were users of methadone rather than heroin.
But the acting director of NSW Health’s Drug and Alcohol and Mental Health programs, David McGrath, defended the number of people on methadone.
“In terms of a starting point for best health outcomes and social outcomes, methadone’s clearly the best place to start,” he said.
The longer people remained on methadone, the relatively healthier they were.
Research had indicated people found it hard to stick with naltrexone and those who began using opiates again after a rapid detox were at increased risk of overdosing because their bodies were no longer tolerant to the drug, he said.
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (don’t look – very OT) kittenfur
Date: December 4, 2005 at 2:07:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hah you never cease to amaze me
love
m
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (don’t look – very OT) kittenfur
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 10:43:01 -0800 (PST)
objective reality sensations,
Movement is subjective.
looking for 7-8Hz.
Connections would be gravy.
sublingual version, when going through pseudo.
here is how:
filter with small
piece of cotton,
and enjoy.
insoluble
cellulose, kitchen sink etc…
Have
fun.
get the ampules, It’s an easier process.
tired of
scuffling and
scoring?
the injectable ampules work great
,) get a sense of
euphoria that don’t get with tablets.
tried crushing tablets using warm water extraction
method
recommended for codeine, with limited results.
even tried
isolating the freebase salt (buprenorphine
hydrochloride with baking
soda) from the tablets with little success.
the oral
bioavailability of the tablets is only 31%, and 8
tablets is a decent
dose. any chemists out there? it’s a cheaper fix
to buy the pills
and go thru the process, than to pay $8 for a .3mg
ampule.
I like forward ideas, they get challenged.
Since starting My own I recovery has been based on
self examination via my I (self diagnosed). I and
on it goes.
I find my peace and quality of my life Personal
analysis has been part of that I self
Being diagnosed is of limited use as it does not
actually cure struggle with little relief.
Lets reconsider this…
AHA! I think I may have answered my own question!
forget the traumatised organism sensitivity .
“reset” to a preaddictive state physically?
Intelligence eye of the beholder has its own ajenda
working
hiding insecurities through now its cool cause i stand
naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which
I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!
the wording of it is not so important right
now
vomiting for, just noticed a HUGE change?
Not so much.
Kinda feel like
referring to a diagnosis as a fact of being rather
than an opinion limited by speech and _expression from
a paid third party whose interest it behooves to
promulgate such feelings.
questioning the “Resets you to a pre-addictive
brainset”,
why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still
infused into your core?
Can “Hypnosis” based upon YOUR observations and
reactions be applied to the YOUR standing next to
you, seeing the same situation, as fact.
I didn’t prepare for living this long..
Doc says , “I can read a chart, ya idiot!”
 I saw the hypocrisy in death.
WooHoo, kickin’ in.
HATE can influence MY THINKING and alter my opinion.
I cannot accept has truncated this to a level we
should all look forward to.
Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was
always here.
I’m too sore to stop looking so off to pure and
simple,
restructure, analyze, listen to some “Reasoning,
Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance,
analyze , look into , blame , look for hidden clues,
align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek
guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships,
(Extinct), cough, cough..Probably
stretch, write mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic
experiences, focus intentions,
“I was diagnosed” so resolving problems is the quest.
Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?
“you mean you’ve never heard of the cabbage patch
kids??,
Well sit right down”
may I beg to be in your presence?
i arrive at exactly the same thing.
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it
did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave,
cleansing wave –
ummm….
My response exactly. in conjunction with high doses
at appropriate points.
“amazing”
 doses like a bruise
integration – very exciting flashbacks, dissociative
states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of it –
fragment experiences, give meaning, file. suddenly
awaken triggers don’t always make a lot of sense, ya
know, the little movie screen?  , so to speak.
projected ..cleansing wave, cleansing wave –
 I gave up on ; years ago.
 And ; was out there (really out there at times)
big hugs, Nirvana , Anyhoo,
it all is what it is –
elaborate
story based on the use of interpretation
over a
period.
To submit an abstract,
http://www.applied-neuroscience.org/index.php?option=com_performs&formid=2
To submit a proposal for a workshop or a forum,
submissions@applied-neuroscience.org.
Authors are encouraged to submit their abstracts.
Suggested Topics
Neurofeedback EEG, fMRI, MEG
Brain-Computer Interface
EEG and Cognition
QEEG Diagnosis
Trans-Cranial Magnetic Stimulation
Peripheral Biofeedback
Near Infrared Spectroscopy
Virtual Reality
Electrocranial Stimulation
Audio-Visual Stimulation
Applied Clinical Neuroscience
Peak Performance
Clinical Psychopathology
Complimentary Evidence Base
Clinical Outcomes
Behavioural Measurement
LORETA and Methodology
Practitioner Fora
I’m not complaining. I just
figured it was part of the ride.
— Hello Grandma
<soft_mechanical_grandmother@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> llstened to
> various plastic
> known and unknown
> Bloom interoperability
> between
> comprehension map
> protocols
>
>
> Perspective
> crumbling away to shreds and tatters,
> bits of old songs, stray quotations,
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (don’t look – very OT) kittenfur
Date: December 4, 2005 at 1:41:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi Callie,
   Just words.  Curious about anything specific?
      cheers,
       j
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Status
Date: December 4, 2005 at 1:52:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 22:12:08 -0800 CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
I have had goboodles of bounced e-mails also.
Thanks for the heads up on the virus but I can’t figure out how
you all  know
exactly who has the virus!
Lots of virus mail says something vanilla, like “Here are the
docs/info/whatever we discussed,” with an attachment like
‘details.zip’ or ‘something.txt     .exe’. When you get a message
like that from someone you know, it is a sign that a virus on that
person’s machine is sending itself to all the places they have sent
mail to. In this case, the message came from Nick.
If you open the attachment, the virus installs itself on your
machine, and the process begins again.
It is just a matter of time before the viruses get more talented at
impersonating us. What if a virus scanned the email you send,
developed a list of your favorite phrases that it could understand,
then crafted a crank letter to your political leader using those
phrases to sound like you?
Callie
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (don’t look – very OT) kittenfur
Date: December 4, 2005 at 1:22:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
wtf is this please. I realize it is way off topic but my curiosity is killing me!!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Status
Date: December 4, 2005 at 1:12:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I have had goboodles of bounced e-mails also.
Thanks for the heads up on the virus but I can’t figure out how you all know exactly who has the virus!
Callie
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] iboga+the neurochemistry of opiate dependency
Date: December 4, 2005 at 12:35:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
well written article, for those wo still question iboga’s action on addicts’ brain systems :
http://www.ibogatherapy.org/Articles/141.aspx
b.r.
P.R.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Status
Date: December 3, 2005 at 2:19:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’ve gotten these notices from time to time too.  It’s not a big deal unless
the email from the list continues to bounce.  I always just send the command
to get the missed ones and forget about it.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2005 11:05 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Status
Testing… Testing..
looks like Nick has a virus, plus with a lot of bounced msgs from
when my mailbox was filled, seems like I may be off the list:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:29:22 -0800 nick227@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a
binary attachment.
“Messages to you from the ibogaine mailing list seem to
have been bouncing. I’ve attached a copy of the first bounce
message I received. [list of 20-30 msgs]
“Subject: failure notice
“Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail.mindvox.com.
I’m afraid I wasn’t able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
This is a permanent error; I’ve given up. Sorry it didn’t work out.
“<slowone@hush.ai>:
65.39.178.133 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554 Virus Blocked. at ./proxyd-filter.pl line
203. “
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account
required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (don’t look – very OT) kittenfur
Date: December 3, 2005 at 1:43:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
objective reality sensations,
 Movement is subjective.
looking for 7-8Hz.
    Connections would be gravy.
sublingual version, when going through pseudo.
 here is how:
filter with small
piece of cotton,
and enjoy.
insoluble
cellulose, kitchen sink etc…
Have
fun.
get the ampules,  It’s an easier process.
tired of
scuffling and
scoring?
the injectable ampules work great
,) get a sense of
euphoria that  don’t get with tablets.
tried crushing tablets using warm water extraction
method
recommended for codeine, with limited results.
even tried
isolating the freebase salt (buprenorphine
hydrochloride with baking
soda) from the tablets with little success.
the oral
bioavailability of the tablets is only 31%, and 8
tablets is a decent
dose.  any chemists out there?  it’s a cheaper fix
to buy the pills
and go thru the process, than to pay $8 for a .3mg
ampule.
I like forward ideas, they get challenged.
Since starting  My own I recovery has been based on
self examination via my  I (self diagnosed).  I  and
on it goes.
I find my peace and quality of my life  Personal
analysis has been part of that I self
Being diagnosed  is of limited use as it does not
actually cure struggle with little relief.
Lets reconsider this…
 AHA! I think I may have answered my own question!
  forget the traumatised organism sensitivity  .
“reset” to a preaddictive state physically?
 Intelligence eye of the beholder has its own ajenda
working
hiding insecurities through now its cool cause i stand
naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which
I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!
the wording of it is not so important right
now
vomiting  for, just noticed a HUGE change?
Not so much.
Kinda feel like
referring to a diagnosis as a fact of  being rather
than an opinion limited by speech and _expression from
a paid third party whose interest it behooves to
promulgate such feelings.
questioning the  “Resets you to a pre-addictive
brainset”,
why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still
infused into your core?
Can  “Hypnosis” based upon YOUR observations and
reactions   be applied to the  YOUR standing next to
you, seeing the same situation, as fact.
   I didn’t prepare for living this long..
Doc says , “I can read a chart, ya idiot!”
 I saw the hypocrisy in death.
WooHoo,  kickin’ in.
 HATE can influence MY THINKING and alter my opinion.
I cannot accept has truncated this to a level we
should all look forward to.
Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was
always here.
I’m too sore to stop looking  so off to pure and
simple,
restructure, analyze,  listen to some  “Reasoning,
Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance,
analyze , look into , blame , look for hidden clues,
align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek
guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships,
(Extinct), cough, cough..Probably
stretch, write mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic
experiences, focus intentions,
“I was diagnosed” so  resolving problems is the quest.
Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?
“you mean you’ve never heard of the cabbage patch
kids??,
Well sit right down”
may I beg to be in your presence?
i arrive at exactly the same thing.
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it
did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave,
cleansing wave –
ummm….
My response exactly.  in conjunction with high doses
at appropriate points.
“amazing”
 doses like a bruise
integration – very exciting flashbacks, dissociative
states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of  it  –
fragment experiences, give meaning, file. suddenly
awaken triggers don’t always make a lot of sense, ya
know, the little movie screen?  , so to speak.
 projected ..cleansing wave, cleansing wave –
 I gave up on ; years ago.
 And ; was out there (really out there at times)
big hugs,  Nirvana , Anyhoo,
it all is what it is –
elaborate
 story based on the use of interpretation
over a
period.
To submit an abstract,
http://www.applied-neuroscience.org/index.php?option=com_performs&formid=2
To submit a proposal for a workshop or a forum,
submissions@applied-neuroscience.org.
Authors are encouraged to submit their abstracts.
Suggested Topics
Neurofeedback EEG, fMRI, MEG
Brain-Computer Interface
EEG and Cognition
QEEG Diagnosis
Trans-Cranial Magnetic Stimulation
Peripheral Biofeedback
Near Infrared Spectroscopy
Virtual Reality
Electrocranial Stimulation
Audio-Visual Stimulation
Applied Clinical Neuroscience
Peak Performance
Clinical Psychopathology
Complimentary Evidence Base
Clinical Outcomes
Behavioural Measurement
LORETA and Methodology
Practitioner Fora
 I’m not complaining.  I just
figured it was part of the ride.
— Hello Grandma
<soft_mechanical_grandmother@yahoo.com> wrote:
 llstened to
various plastic
known and unknown
Bloom interoperability
 between
  comprehension map
protocols
Perspective
    crumbling away to shreds and tatters,
     bits of old songs, stray quotations,
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD
Date: December 3, 2005 at 1:41:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 11:44:18 -0800 Blake Kritzberg
<blake.kritzberg@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for posting this, Brenda. I was just on the verge of
explaining
that I’d like to do some self-run ibogaine sessions with an eye
toward
resolving some of my lifetime’s worth of codependency issues. I’m
missing a lot of memories, which makes it difficult to address
everything in therapy. I was beginning to wonder, though, if the
possible dangers involved in ibogaine made it better reserved for
those trying to kick life-threatening physical addictions.
You could likely get what you need with 1-5 mg/kg, vs. 15-25 mg/kg
for someone seeking relief from addiction. Even a small taste on
the tongue can be useful for a therapy session. I found large doses
to be of limited value because of the amount of drama/resistance
they inspired. (With a therapist as guide this might be different,
but I haven’t heard of any therapists who do this. See the writings
of Naranjo at ibogaine.org.)
Recently I began taking low doses of an antipsychotic (risperdone,
1mg/day), and have been having very promising results – it also
works well with both ibogaine and ayahuasca for me. It resembles
the grounding effect of ibogaine, except without drawing me to pain
like a magnet (the pain appears to be birth trauma).
– blake
On 12/2/05, brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi everyone,
After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic
scenes were
processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD.   I did
not do any
research on that before I left because I was concentrating on my
original
intention of being sober but it’s funny that alcohol never
appeared in any
way in any of my insights or visions – just the peeling the
layers of my
stuffed, repressed trauma (and the other global, cosmic stuff).
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
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 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Deep sleep – layperson’s terms 😉
Date: December 3, 2005 at 1:35:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
I would just like to share my enthusiasm about my first really deep night’s sleep since my session.  I’ve been waking up at 4AM every day, which is fine because I am starting to do things to start my day in a positive way that feel good.  Last night, I slept very deeply until after 5AM and I feel physically and emotionally renewed.  I have a long day in my little home studio getting ready for a recording session next weekend and I feel enthused about it!  This is a wonderful development because it’s been a while since I felt that way.
My BF and I had a lively conversation about REM sleep this morning (he’s got a more scientific bent than I do) and he was delighted about Dr. Ed’s license plate.  I hope the Stanford Sleep Clinic assists him in getting some deep sleep.
Have a wonderful day,
brenda
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Status
Date: December 3, 2005 at 1:35:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
That’s a virus, DON’T OPEN IT, or any other email that contains a zip file!! Including CIA, FBI, registration confirmation enclosed, my new e-mail address enclosed…
slowone@hush.ai wrote:
Testing… Testing..
looks like Nick has a virus, plus with a lot of bounced msgs from
when my mailbox was filled, seems like I may be off the list:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:29:22 -0800 nick227@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a
binary attachment.
“Messages to you from the ibogaine mailing list seem to
have been bouncing. I’ve attached a copy of the first bounce
message I received. [list of 20-30 msgs]
“Subject: failure notice
“Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail.mindvox.com.
I’m afraid I wasn’t able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
This is a permanent error; I’ve given up. Sorry it didn’t work out.
“<slowone@hush.ai>:
65.39.178.133 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554 Virus Blocked. at ./proxyd-filter.pl line
203. “
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
https://www.hushssl.com?l=485
  /]=———————————————————————=[\
 [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
  \]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 3, 2005 at 1:05:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi
On 12/3/05 3:57 AM, “Don Patton” <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,
Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just
imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more
held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
    Hi Don,
    Hoo!  Long post 🙂  Let’s just say for now, it does not really matter.
It was stuff in childhood that repeated itself over and over until recently.
Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting
excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not
so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a
fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression
from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such
feelings.
   Let me clarify that many of my posts are edited for brevity because I
post on breaks at work when I’m not taking a walk to get some fresh air.
Moving forward my wish is to communicate the essence of what the labels
point to.  I will try and make those distinctions here.
I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment.
   Connecting with another human being that understands the process and has
gone through it and has experience with the ongoing integration process.
For me, like when I was connecting with the person that sat with me it was a
wonderful experience.  I felt lifted, I felt growth.  So did they.  It’s not
a one-up or down thing.  It’s mutual.
IF Ibo “Resets”
you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis-
conceptions still infused into your core?
   I’ve read about that.  I don’t have an answer to this.  I don’t have any
cravings.  I’m aware of my feelings now though.
Isn’t resolving problems the quest?
      My quest is in the other direction.  It’s growth in the way that is
right for me.
You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown
HOW to solve problems?
  Nope.  I had my own unique Ibogaine experience.   The “intelligence” we
fondly referred it to during my session, gave me an appropriate experience
for me.
 The really wonderful is that it is such a unique experience which is why I
feel so grateful – the wording of it is not so important right now…what’s
important is how I am expressing it in my daily life and how I feel – which
is a lot better.
brenda
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Status
Date: December 3, 2005 at 1:05:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Testing… Testing..
looks like Nick has a virus, plus with a lot of bounced msgs from
when my mailbox was filled, seems like I may be off the list:
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 21:29:22 -0800 nick227@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a
binary attachment.
“Messages to you from the ibogaine mailing list seem to
have been bouncing. I’ve attached a copy of the first bounce
message I received. [list of 20-30 msgs]
“Subject: failure notice
“Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail.mindvox.com.
I’m afraid I wasn’t able to deliver your message to the following
addresses.
This is a permanent error; I’ve given up. Sorry it didn’t work out.
“<slowone@hush.ai>:
65.39.178.133 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 554 Virus Blocked. at ./proxyd-filter.pl line
203. “
Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account required
http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail
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 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] where there buffalo roam
Date: December 3, 2005 at 12:55:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Where the Buffalo Roam is on on Independent Film Channel right now, but it started at noon, so you’ve only got just over half the film left- but it’s brilliant so if you have time check it out- it’s a freakin’ CLASSIC!
;-))
  (It stars Bill Murrey playing playing Hunter S. Thompson, and he’s brilliant in it.)
See the following link for a review of said film:
http://www.therant.info/archive/000959.html
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 3, 2005 at 7:49:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Don,
One of the reasons why I like the list is because when I put forward ideas they get challenged.
Since starting ibo I have not once been to a therapist. My own recovery has been based on self examination and healing via eboga.
Trauma in my experience is biologically imprinted in the mind/unconscious and keeps pushing to the surface producing all kinds of irrational fears and beliefs.
What I have experienced in one particular case which surfaced due to eboga is connection to a serious trauma which began to give me all the symptoms of PTSD (self diagnosed). When I finally had the courage and ability to face it, the symptoms dropped but returned less aggressively some time later. These then dropped with further healing and on it goes to the point where the trauma is all but gone.
One can feed the bear by believing in the symptoms but when you see the healing and how these symptoms mean nothing other than the expression of the trauma, the next time they suggest themselves one can put them in context and not be crippled by them but still go back to the healing work to finish off the job.
I have been down “many” routes to find my peace and none has been as effective as this. The quality of my life has changed “immensely.” Personal analysis has been part of that success.
I think we should be self empowered and that is what eboga offers us. Therapists can be on a hit and miss. Being diagnosed PTSD is of limited use as it does not actually cure the PTSD and as Brenda says she would have to stay a lifetime in therapy to heal it. However, it does at least state the obvious: there is a trauma and as a whole biological human being it will not go away until it is dealt with.
The other option is to ignore the symptoms if possible but that is a struggle with little relief.
We each need to find a way that works for us and many believe the self analysis route is flawed. I do too (I walked away from therapists in dismay) unless there is a healing system in place which validates the analysis and offers real tangible healing of what is uncovered via that analysis. That is what eboga does.
It really is quite simple imo. Humans are sensitive and when that sensitivity is traumatised the organism does not forget.
Lee
PS Ibo will reset to a preaddictive state physically but it will not always take away the reason for the addiction in the first session. Eboga has its own ajenda. Its an intelligence working with out higher self imo.
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Brenda,
Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!
Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.
I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…
Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!
I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!
 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period.
 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant.
WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.
NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.
You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….
So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.
Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?
Lee, don’t feed the bear.
Dr. Lotsof,
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.
Don
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”
My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,
A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.
During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!
The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.
And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).
Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.
So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.
I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate 🙂
brenda
On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Brenda,
>
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for
> you.
>
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD, ATTN: Dr. Lotsof
Date: December 3, 2005 at 6:57:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Brenda,
Can you share what the PTSD is from? I am guessing you would rather not, just imagine my confusion as that is a pretty big blanket, and, as you say, is more held in the eye of the beholder than the “Viewer”. Matt Z. says
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!
Are you feeling the same way?? Believe me, I AM NOT a big fan of vomiting excuses for current behavior, just noticed a HUGE change in Matt, and you? Not so much. Kinda feel like you’re reaching back, referring to a diagnosis as a fact of your being rather than an opinion limited by speech and expression from a paid third party whose interest it behooves to promulgate such feelings.
I’m just really questioning the “Therapy” part of treatment. IF Ibo “Resets” you to a pre-addictive brainset, why are these lingering pre- or mis- conceptions still infused into your core? Can the “Hypnosis” of therapy override Ibo? You gotta admit, what you call PTSD is based upon YOUR observations and reactions to a trauma, and cannot be applied to the guy standing next to you, seeing the same situation, as fact. All fear is based on death, and we, as addicts, are SUPPOSED to be more comfortable with that option. That is, unless, you numb the fear with the addiction. AHA! I think I may have answered my own question! Let me reconsider this…
Fear of death might equal fear of life IF life= imminent death. Is this the battle? Sure to lose THAT one, hehe. Only a question of WHEN, and we all believe later is better than sooner. Most of us, but not all. My life is decaying in front of my eyes, and I tried like hell not to get to this point. My fear isn’t of dying, it’s of getting old. I didn’t prepare for living this long.. Doc says I’m in great shape for a 35 year old, but I’m 47, jeez , I can read a chart, ya idiot!
I am not comfortable posting this, Brenda & Lee, I just agree with Matt, this is much simpler without the over-analysis. My Grandfather died at 38, my dad died at 42. I’ve been killing myself since I was 16, thirty years of alcohol, meth, coke, dirty, rusted needles and rampant unprotected sex have made me invincible, or so it seems. I figgered “What the crap?” and now my worst fear is coming true. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with me. I tried, jeez, I tried!
 Nobody ever convinced me I was EVER in a place that I had not chosen to be in. Period.
 I saw the hypocrisy in “Eternal Life” really early. I saw death as a “Graduation” from frustration really early, and sympathized more with the bereaved at their loss than with the descendant.  Which is a misnomer. The Ascendant.
WooHoo, cheap beer kickin’ in. I could go all night, but I start misspelling words. I HATE that.
NOBODY can influence MY THINKING. Not to say that discussion won’t alter my opinion. I cannot accept that behavior can be blamed. THAT”S why me and Matt connect. It’s beautiful. Matt cannot afford “Therapists”and has truncated this to a level we should all look forward to. Simplicity, pure and simple. Just stop looking, it was always here.
You guys go ahead, restructure, analyze, whatever, listen to some goon blame others and convince you you are “Reasoning, Dealing, Adjusting, Reckoning”, meditate, dance, analyze again, look into your past, blame again, look for hidden clues, align your chakras, focus your spirit guides, seek guidance in the wisdom(?) of ancient worships, (Extinct), cough, cough..Probably Bush’s fault….
So yoga, stretch, write your mom, analyze deeply, re-live traumatic experiences IF it suits what your intentions are, “I was diagnosed” so it is a fact, “I was relieved, but there are more issues underlying”. One problem was resolved. The biggest one. I THINK or maybe I need more counseling.
Isn’t resolving problems the quest? You solved ONE problem? Weren’t you shown HOW to solve problems?
Lee, don’t feed the bear.
Dr. Lotsof,
IF I may beg to be in your presence, your input would be greatly appreciated.
Don
Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”
My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,
A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.
During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!
The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.
And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).
Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.
So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.
I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate 🙂
brenda
On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Brenda,
>
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for
> you.
>
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: [Ibogaine] Status
Date: December 3, 2005 at 12:29:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary attachment.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD – LEE
Date: December 2, 2005 at 6:51:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it
can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting
stuff!
I feel that one event is pretty much wiped out – the one I wanted which is
a bonus.  It was not an event when I was younger so maybe that’s why.
I feel there is more beneath the surface.
Brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Brenda, et al: (& Luke)
Date: December 2, 2005 at 4:01:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
I have experience 🙂  Yes, I suffered from loss of REM for many years
begining with the onset of PTSD.  That’s probably not big news to most – I
don’t know.
I do wonder what the connection meditation and “presence” work may have –
I hope to meet some people soon that are invloved in it.  As you said Dr.
Ed, the connection that we always have – it’s legal and free so that it my
ultimate goal.
I will share my findings as the weeks go on.  Until then, I’ll be taking
one step at a time 🙂
brenda
———————————————————–
WebMail provided by Photon.Net – http://www.photon.net/
Nationwide internet access, thousands of dial-up numbers!
Web hosting, multimedia broadcasting, e-commerce, and more.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Blake Kritzberg <blake.kritzberg@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD
Date: December 2, 2005 at 2:44:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for posting this, Brenda. I was just on the verge of explaining
that I’d like to do some self-run ibogaine sessions with an eye toward
resolving some of my lifetime’s worth of codependency issues. I’m
missing a lot of memories, which makes it difficult to address
everything in therapy. I was beginning to wonder, though, if the
possible dangers involved in ibogaine made it better reserved for
those trying to kick life-threatening physical addictions.
– blake
On 12/2/05, brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi everyone,
After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were
processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD.   I did not do any
research on that before I left because I was concentrating on my original
intention of being sober but it’s funny that alcohol never appeared in any
way in any of my insights or visions – just the peeling the layers of my
stuffed, repressed trauma (and the other global, cosmic stuff).
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dream Lines ( off topic but cool!)
Date: December 2, 2005 at 1:37:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I couldn’t get this to work properly either.  I gave up and just typed
in sex and off it went to start loading :).  Actually I think it has a
difficulty with multiple words.
Luke
On 12/2/05, Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I keep getting my words produced too few results and to try again.
Anyone else having problems? Whats the secret?
Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Fantastic!
I tried ibogaine, howard lotsof and deborah mash.  I wish it worked faster
ala ibogaine but slow is better than nothing.
Howard
In a message dated 11/29/05 12:10:30 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
DREAM A LITTLE DREAM – ONLINE!
You enter KEYWORDS of what you’d like to dream
about, then the thingy grabs relevant images from
the web and mishmashes them into a dreamy
ever-changing tapestry.
http://www.solaas.com.ar/dreamlines/
This is cool as shit!! I tried several things, Ibogaine, evil (get this,
ticketmaster was one of the images from evil!!!), mindvox, Tom Petty and the
Heartbreakers, tie dye…..use your imagination! It is fun to watch and
relaxing!
Peace, Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
 /]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
 \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Brenda, et al:
Date: December 2, 2005 at 11:42:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Since the “sine qua non” symptom of P.T.S.D. is insomnia and the drugs of addiction ALL destroy quality sleep, especially REM-Stage Sleep, wouldn’t it be in-teresting to theorize that Ibogaine experiences “catch-up” the brain on lost REM-Sleep very rapidly, thereby restoring the chemical deficiencies caused by lost REM-Sleep.  It is clear, to folks like the famous Karl Jung, that dreaming sleep touches/exposes deep sensitivities and wisdom in our “Soul.”  Could the “Healing” effect of Ibogaine come thru this mechanism.  Perhaps this Self-knowledge and Wisdom is within us, ALL the time, but the ravages of lost REM-Sleep keep us from attending to it calmly/openly enough.  My Wisconsin State Car License reads “GET-REM,” for the last ten years……now it may make sense!  (My other car license reads “GET-SWS,” (Slow Wave Sleep for body healing.)
    Ergo…..Post-Ibogaine continuing mental calm and health depend upon the prior AND afterward ability to obtain sufficient REM-Stage-Sleep.  AND the impaired sleep patterns, and loss of REM-Sleep, that many continue to experience following Ibogaine may be the fundamental reason that emotional peace/health again declines and craving for drugs returns.  There is abundant neurologic evidence that even mild brain injuries/trauma/infections create permanent impairment of the sleep mechanism of REM-Sleep, residing in the base of the brain called the Pons.
   Deborah Mash’s investigations are pointing toward “micro-molecular” theories of Ibogaine’s actions, ala noribogaine, etc., like most current neuropsychiatric theories, but to me the more productive theories may be related to Sleep Physiology…..a “MACRO-molecular” approach, because it matches the impact of drug abuse on the brain AND explains the frequent loss of ibogaine’s therapeutic effect with time.
    Any “experienced” opinions out there?  Dr. Ed
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD
Date: December 2, 2005 at 10:52:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Brenda,
Thats wonderful. I myself have had this condition based on self diagnosis and it is only recently when I went into the trauma in stages on low doses did i arrive at exactly the same thing you describe:
“it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!”
My response exactly. Before I was exhibiting all the symptoms then after it was like, the event without the emotional stuff and a deep sense of well being looking at the ordinariness of it all.
Unfortunately in my case the event took place a few years before ibo and is only now fully releasing in stages, i.e., I have been hit with periods of severe symptoms (numbness, avoidance, pieces of trauma emerging, increased arousal – also severe depression, suicidal feelings…..) for the past 7 years which started to emerge due to my eboga work and I confused it with other childhood material. I have no doubt the reason for the slow recovery was to do with all the other stuff I had to learn about healing, myself, relationships etc.
This is an area I hope to develop (along with other healing mechanisms eg sexual abuse etc) with low dose therapy in conjunction with high dose sessions at appropriate points. What I call the Eboga Process. I will be releasing a book hopefully in the next 18 months on this process.
Eboga has “amazing” healing potential.
Congratulations.
One q. In my own experience I have had complete lifting of the symptoms only to have some of them return and to discover that I still had more facing of the trauma, i.e., it presents in stages on low doses like a bruise that lifts in part. Do you feel it is fully healed or are not sure? If its still lifting it can be treated on low doses and progressive integration – very exciting stuff!
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi Lee,
A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.
During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!
The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.
And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).
Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.
So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.
I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate 🙂
brenda
On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Brenda,
>
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for
> you.
>
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Struggle
Date: December 2, 2005 at 10:17:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m not sure I bypassed it so much as I was just overcome. My natural tendancy (or maybe my ego’s natural tendancy?) is to resist.  But it suddenly appeared to me as though I was trying to fight a modern war with rocks and sticks, utterly ridiculous.
From: brenda brewer [mailto:shakti@photon.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 7:46 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Struggle
Matt,

That is so awesome that you were able to bypass the resistance phase in that session.  How liberating!

brenda
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dream Lines ( off topic but cool!)
Date: December 2, 2005 at 9:46:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/2/05 8:53:39 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
I keep getting my words produced too few results and to try again.
Anyone else having problems? Whats the secret?
Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Fantastic!
I tried ibogaine, howard lotsof and deborah mash.  I wish it worked faster ala ibogaine but slow is better than nothing.
Howard
Choosing words the program can recognize.  For instance, it appeared to recognize howard lotsof but not deborah mash.  Oh well.
Howard
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Struggle
Date: December 2, 2005 at 9:45:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt,
That is so awesome that you were able to bypass the resistance phase in that session.  How liberating!
brenda
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dose effects/was/Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 2, 2005 at 9:38:38 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Howard
Well other than the fact that the higher dose worked in terms of helping me get clean from opiates (methadone at that time) and the lower doses did not (heroin only on those occasions) I can’t say very definitively what the differences were.  My first treatment was around 21 or 22mg/kg and I fell asleep about 5 hours into it, the next several doses were all lower and while profound, none of them interrupted my heroin use for more than a month.  They were powerful experiences, but apparently not powerful enough to induce long term opiate abstinence, of course I did little else at those times after the treatment to stay clean (I didn’t hang out with junkies, but I didn’t change my lifestyle either).  The largest dose, 26mg/kg was done in an enema and it was altogether the most powerful hallucinogenic/psycho-spiritual experience I’ve ever had.  I guess after starting to write this and thinking about it, I would say that that last experience was noticeably more intense.  One thought that comes to mind is about the ego vs ibo thing that Brenda mentioned.  I felt that struggle to some extent on the lower doses but on my last treatment I really felt like there was no contest, my ego was completely overwhelmed.  There was no resisting the ibo that time.  On previous occasions I could feel the resistance and I was too afraid to let go and stop resisting.  The last treatment came on so fast and strong that I realized very quickly that resistance was futile.  Maybe that also speaks to the question of why it worked for long term abstinence that time and not on the previous occasions.  Not sure if I answered your question but hope so.
Matt
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 1:26 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] dose effects/was/Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions

In a message dated 12/1/05 11:27:23 PM, matt@itsupport.net writes:

Maybe you overlooked it or didn’t get it but I responded to your question about this a few months ago when you posted it, that I have never taken less than a gram and half.  So every self report I’ve ever posted here is regarding a dose that high.  Of course, since weight is the real factor, I should probably say that all of my doses have been above about 18mg/kg and the last time it was about 26mg/kg.
Matt

Matt,

How would you compare the 18 mg/kg dose(s) with the 26 mg/kg dose?  I realize each experience can be different but, did you notice a dose differentiation?  

Same question to anyone else who can provide an answer.

Thanks

Howard
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD
Date: December 2, 2005 at 8:48:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Lee,
A short history:  I was diagnosed with PTSD about 16-17 yrs ago before I hit the bottle with full force.  I have many times experienced flashbacks, dissociative states, ect…my mind trying to make sense of what it had earlier done with traumatic experiences – fragment, give meaning to, file.  Then you have your triggers that suddenly awaken these memories or just plain stress and they come back with horrible emotions and don’t always make a lot of sense to the logical mind.  Plus you get really bad headaches and body-aches.
During my Ibo session, at the end when I feel the substance had performed a number of processes and gone down several layers that cleared and prepared the way for more precise clearing – I then saw specific events, ya know, the little movie screen?  And watched them with no emotion – just was shown the file, so to speak.   Because the scenes were projected a couple feet in front of me in mid-air (I finally refused to keep my eyes closed, just wasn’t working) the emotional releases did not have the same meaning – it was just like, “see?  That’s what happened…it did not mean what you thought…cleansing wave, cleansing wave – after, did it feel good!
The reason I included the personal part, is, I was told for many years, but lots of well meaning therapists, that the healing and integration process would probably take the rest of my life of hard, hard weekly sessions.  My favorite therapist even told me he could not believe I was not addicted with a needle in my arm and on the street (he just didn’t give me enough time! 😉  I gave up on regular psychologists years ago.  So, this is development with Ibogaine is a huge gift – I ‘m deeply grateful.  I know that there have been some MDMA and pcilosybin trials with people suffering from PTSD – I’ve followed it for years – I just feel repelled by institutions – even if the researchers are people like Terrence McKenna and his brother.  And Terrence was out there (really out there at times) but really down to earth and willing to talk to anyone about this stuff.  But, I’m intrigued by the research again.
And, Eric Taube’s site, the essay “Nirvana,” that I read last night, struck a deep cord with me – I could not believe how on the money the descriptions were to my experiences with PTSD and the search for healing, then, Ibogaine. (big hugs).
Anyhoo, I will be continuing on with some Ibo-friendly therapists.  May even be able to set up my first meeting sometime today.
So, it all is what it is – I won’t throw the baby out with the bath water.  I’ve got more work to do.  There seems to be a lot of progress in the research with/without Ibo.  I hope this answers your question kind of.
I sure do appreciate you all!  I’m too sore to do yoga this AM (did it again last night) so off to meditate 🙂
brenda
On 12/2/05 2:04 AM, “Lee Albert” <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Brenda,
>
> I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal
> details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for
> you.
>
> “After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were
> processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
>
> Thanks
>
> Lee
>
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dream Lines ( off topic but cool!)
Date: December 2, 2005 at 8:46:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I keep getting my words produced too few results and to try again.
Anyone else having problems? Whats the secret?
Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Fantastic!
I tried ibogaine, howard lotsof and deborah mash.  I wish it worked faster ala ibogaine but slow is better than nothing.
Howard
In a message dated 11/29/05 12:10:30 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
DREAM A LITTLE DREAM – ONLINE!
You enter KEYWORDS of what you’d like to dream
about, then the thingy grabs relevant images from
the web and mishmashes them into a dreamy
ever-changing tapestry.
http://www.solaas.com.ar/dreamlines/
This is cool as shit!! I tried several things, Ibogaine, evil (get this, ticketmaster was one of the images from evil!!!), mindvox, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, tie dye…..use your imagination! It is fun to watch and relaxing!
Peace, Callie
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD
Date: December 2, 2005 at 5:04:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Brenda,
I would be really interested if you could elaborate (without actual personal details necessary) what you mean by this statement and how it operated for you.
“After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD. “
Thanks
Lee
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
Hi everyone,
After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD.   I did not do any research on that before I left because I was concentrating on my original intention of being sober but it’s funny that alcohol never appeared in any way in any of my insights or visions – just the peeling the layers of my stuffed, repressed trauma (and the other global, cosmic stuff).
I’m enjoying some of the research I just started to do and feel a deep thawing of sadness I had for a long time about the hopelessness I used to feel about healing a fragmented self and it not taking 35-40 years!
I’ll write more about this later…
Sweet dreams,
brenda
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 2, 2005 at 3:32:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/1/05 11:33:35 PM, Nowwarat@aol.com writes:
I would appreciate if anyone happens along a self reported ibo Hcl trip involving at leat 1 and a half grams leave a link.
Thank you.
Bruce
Both of these were over a gram.
http://ibogaine.org/experience-1097.html
http://ibogaine.org/junkie.html
Also, take a look at http://ibogaine.org/sheppard.html as a few of the described treatments were over 1 gram.
Howard
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] dose effects/was/Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 2, 2005 at 3:25:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/1/05 11:27:23 PM, matt@itsupport.net writes:
Maybe you overlooked it or didn’t get it but I responded to your question about this a few months ago when you posted it, that I have never taken less than a gram and half.  So every self report I’ve ever posted here is regarding a dose that high.  Of course, since weight is the real factor, I should probably say that all of my doses have been above about 18mg/kg and the last time it was about 26mg/kg.
Matt
Matt,
How would you compare the 18 mg/kg dose(s) with the 26 mg/kg dose?  I realize each experience can be different but, did you notice a dose differentiation?
Same question to anyone else who can provide an answer.
Thanks
Howard
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 2, 2005 at 1:59:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t think anything is obvious about the “standard Treament”.
I don’t think it’s obvious many people have consumed over a gram. It’s inferred more than claimed in personal experiences.
Bruce
From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] G is for…
Date: December 2, 2005 at 12:33:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hope all are well.  Someone please tell Dana that Jeff is still out in California and he’ll phone in as soon as he’s home.  Sorry I missed the play.  Thought many of you might appreciate this one:
www.GiveMeTheMasterKey.com
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and PTSD
Date: December 2, 2005 at 12:17:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi everyone,
After my session I was keenly aware by the way the traumatic scenes were processed of the relationship between Ibogaine and PTSD.   I did not do any research on that before I left because I was concentrating on my original intention of being sober but it’s funny that alcohol never appeared in any way in any of my insights or visions – just the peeling the layers of my stuffed, repressed trauma (and the other global, cosmic stuff).
I’m enjoying some of the research I just started to do and feel a deep thawing of sadness I had for a long time about the hopelessness I used to feel about healing a fragmented self and it not taking 35-40 years!
I’ll write more about this later…
Sweet dreams,
brenda
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 11:37:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Matt,
That was really a fast reply. Forgive me.I am so mentally slow sometimes these days. Now I have read your self described ibo ventures. I thnak you for them as they have provided me with some real insight. But did you give a mg/kg figure backed by an actual Hcl Mg doseage amount. I understand that a person weighing 60 Kgs may take an amount well in excess relatively speaking, of another person weighing 100 Kgs. But I am still not aware that you took over one gram
Bruce
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 11:30:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Bruce
Maybe you overlooked it or didn’t get it but I responded to your question about this a few months ago when you posted it, that I have never taken less than a gram and half.  So every self report I’ve ever posted here is regarding a dose that high.  Of course, since weight is the real factor, I should probably say that all of my doses have been above about 18mg/kg and the last time it was about 26mg/kg.
Matt
From: Nowwarat@aol.com [mailto:Nowwarat@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 9:01 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
I would appreciate if anyone happens along a self reported ibo Hcl trip involving at leat 1 and a half grams leave a link.
Thank you.
Bruce
From: Nowwarat@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 11:00:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I would appreciate if anyone happens along a self reported ibo Hcl trip involving at leat 1 and a half grams leave a link.
Thank you.
Bruce
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: December 1, 2005 at 5:20:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Jack,
You can watch it online at the link below wwww.becomewhole.co.uk.
Ther are also a lot of video/radio links here which contain far more info on ibo than this documentary:
www.my-eboga.com/audiovisual.html
Lee
Jack Wieder <jackwieder@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Friends:
How can I come by a copy of this video.
Thanks.
Jack Wieder
(415)861-2766
>From: Lee Albert
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die
>- The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his
>dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
>Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:51:13 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Hi List,
>
>I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
>
>Any more comments?
>
>Lee
>
>Lee Albert wrote:
>Hi List,
>
>Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links page for
>the full BBC documentary of:
>
>”Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for nearly 20
>years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat his addiction and
>treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
>
>
>www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
>
>This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
>
>www.becomewhole.co.uk
>
>Lee
>
>
>
>
>Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
>year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
>www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
>My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
>interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
>already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
>year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
>www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
>
>
>My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
>interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
>already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: “Jack Wieder” <jackwieder@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: December 1, 2005 at 5:15:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear Friends:
How can I come by a copy of this video.
Thanks.
Jack Wieder
(415)861-2766
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Full BBC Documentary Online: One Life: Detox or Die – The life of a heroin/methadone addict in Glascow, the cost of his dependence and the hope offered by ibogaine/eboga.
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 14:51:13 +0000 (GMT)
Hi List,
I have had some interesting feedback on this documentary.
Any more comments?
Lee
Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi List,
Just to let you know I have a link on my providers page and links page for the full BBC documentary of:
“Detox or Die – David Graham Scott has been addicted to drugs for nearly 20 years. Watch this BBC documentary about his fight to beat his addiction and treatment provided by Edward Conn.”
www.my-eboga.com/providers.html
This documentary can also be accessed directly via:
www.becomewhole.co.uk
Lee
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 4:49:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Don,
Full on question. I assume you are in the States. If you are near an international border i would have it posted somewhere on the other side as you are an unknown qty, so no one is going to supply you in a restricted area, i.e. the US. That said i am not saying that I know anyone who does supply to the US.
You can have confidance in what is supplied by Sacrament in Eastern Europe on email, sacrament@sacrament.kibla.si, first rate from what I have heard. I understand that ethnogarden in Canada supply ibo but dont know anything about its quality. You can ask both suppliers.
Regarding the qty etc – thats a loaded question that depends on what you are taking it for and there are others better qualified than I to answer that. In fact I would rather not as my use of ibo up to know is psychospiritual apart from what I have observed.
Maybe if you describe your present situation, read the protocol, guess a treatment plan and post it, you might be able to judge from the reactions/responses you get?
Hope that helps.
lee
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Lee,
In a perfect world, where I could obtain this stuff, if you were 205 and had access to HCL, what would you think about? Quantity-wise??
Lee Albert wrote:
Pascal,
189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
Hope that helps.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
>over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 4:38:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Pascal,
Dont get put off. This list can be intense at times but you’ll get the hang of it.
As you say Matt pointed you here but not because we would not want to help you on the eboga list but because on this list there is a far greater scrutiny of the subject you need answers on. Your presence on the eboga list is more than welcome.
Can I suggest that you research what the treatment protocol is for heroin and then when you have figured it out put together a plan and post it here and see what people think, i.e., come with a plan. Check the info in the Protocol pamplet.
You are here for you and so you have to start putting it together and then you will find a lot of people here willing to give you a leg up if you are too off base. I presume there are no providers in your area.
Personally I would assume that using amounts similar to what is used for H would not be too far off base. Maybe a little less would be needed but I am not the expert on this.
What you need to figure out is your health and what is a safe way to administer and also to get medical backup if possible. Be very careful about dehydration.
Take care of yourself.
Wishing you the best.
Lee
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
>From: Vector Vector
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
>Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:40:22 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Everything that Jon said 😉
>
>Besides that you’re asking the same questions that have already been
>asked and answered here 2000 times, so I’d guess that the people most
>qualified to give your answers have gotten bored of it by now and may
>occasionally say something if they read your message. This list can be
>very high traffic sometimes and alot of people only read messages from
>authors whose names they recongize and are interested in. or who use a
>descriptive subject line 😉
* well noted, thanks.
* when I joined elistas-ibogaine network, abt. 1 week ago, Lee Albert&Matt
Z. redirected me to ibogaine-mindvox because me questions had no place in
that network. Fair enough, and that’s what I did.
* having joined mindvox since short time, did not know abt. the 2000
times/answers. Sorry.
* however, if people ask 2000 times the more or less same question, don’t
you think that there are still some interrogations abt the subject?
>If you had looked, the same people here who would answer have already
>written out detailed articles about the exact things you asked anyway.
>
>http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html
>
>’Standard’ treatment dose from above and
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine.pdf
>
>16-18 mg per kg, so obviously many people are doing more then a gram at
>once for addiction interruption.
>
>Lots of people here have detoxed from 10 years plus on opiates, high
>doses of methadone, and so on.
>
>Every question you asked can be answered using the first page of google
>
>http://www.google.com/search?q=ibogaine
>
>Which leads you right back to the main ibogaine sites, Howard’s
>ibogaine.org, Nick’s ibogaine.co.uk, Patrick and Mindvox (you are here)
>and Dana Beal’s site.
>
>If you’d bothered to do even the most basic research and then asked
>more questions, probably people would have been more helpful. Expecting
>people to act as your personal help desk and reference for no charge is
>maybe asking a bit much 😉
* do not agree. I did basic research, whatever basic might imply, but for
sure did not read everything. Til date could not read abt iboga as treatment
for opium. The articles I found refer to methadone, heroine, alcohol,
cigarettes.
But here some pages/sites are blocked by the authorities. Still I do not
believe those pages contained the answers.
* besides, I never intended to bore people, or use them as my helpdesk.
b.r.
p.r.
>
>Still no matter what, there’s always going to be someone here who will
>give you their personal experience.
>
>.:vector:.
>
>— jon wrote:
>
> >
> > > Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I
> > > should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of
> > experimental
> > > studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey
> > zones
> > > remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s
> > the
> > > main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga
> > aeroplane.
> >
> >
> > Well, think about this… how many people have taken ibogaine in the
> > last 40 years? maybe a few thousand?
> >
> > Now, how many people have smoked cannabis in the same time? a few
> > hundred million? maybe more?
> >
> > And we’re not a much closer to a full understanding of how cannabis
> > works than we are to a full understanding of how ibogaine works. In
> > fact, we’ve only had an inkling of how cannabis works for the past 15
> >
> > years, while we’ve had some idea how ibogaine works for the past 20
> > years or so.
> >
> > Now, I don’t know if those usage numbers are quite right, but you get
> > my
> > point. It takes a long time and many, many administrations (and
> > usually
> > lots of money) to understand how a drug works. Make no mistake,
> > ibogaine
> > is an EXPERIMENTAL medication. While we have some idea how best to
> > use
> > it, thanks to the many years of hard work of people like Howard, Dr.
> > Mash, etc., we still have a great deal to learn about it. And the
> > only
> > way we can learn more about it is by observing more people who take
> > it.
> > If you decide to take ibogaine, you are, at least in some sense,
> > volunteering as a guinea pig.
> >
> > Whether or not ibogaine is a good choice for you can only be decided
> > by
> > YOU. How badly do you need to get off your drug of choice? How much
> > risk
> > is it worth taking to try to get clean?
> >
> > For example, compared to the risks of shooting heroin every day, the
> > risks of taking ibogaine are minimal. Yes, people have died from
> > taking
> > ibogaine. But a heroin user is far more likely to die from HIV,
> > hepatitis, overdose, getting shot trying to score, etc, than they
> > would
> > be if they took ibogaine.
> >
> > As with any medication, it’s a matter of balancing the potential
> > benefits with the potential risks.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! Music Unlimited
>Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
>http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
>
>
>
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] BRENDA!!!
Date: December 1, 2005 at 4:12:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Callie,
I did share an initial description of my experience with the group.  I’ll
resend it to you when I get home.
Keep holding the goal – it’s worth it 🙂
brenda
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From: shakti@photon.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] Preston – stretching
Date: December 1, 2005 at 4:10:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi,
That’s great!  I gave my mom a stretching DVD while she was here last
week…I want some more stretching comrades.
I always feel like it’s releasing “stuck” energy like stress, ect, and my
mind/body feels a lttle clearer each time.  I think I may start to do it
when I get home from work, too.
brenda 🙂
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] BRENDA!!!
Date: December 1, 2005 at 3:46:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
So happy to see a post from you! You have been in my head for a few days! Glad to hear you are doing well.
Hope you will share your journey with some. If you don’t want to share with entire group I really wish you would share with me!!;) I have not been on the Ibogaine train but want to really bad.
You hang in there girl! You are being held to the light in my thoughts.
Callie
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just kinda noticing
Date: December 1, 2005 at 3:08:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Brenda its so cool to hear you are doing well!
love
m
Don its soo fuken cool man
once you see and realize the beauty of other realities, you have so much more venerance and apreciation for this reality….i give my thanks to iboga for showing me that life on earth is as beutiful as in other realities
also i got the biggest lesson aboutmy addiction…fuk its all so simple….
always hiding my insecurities through opiates….fuk!! and what bettter way to hide them when you dont feel anything….Finally i decided to accpet them, let them out in the open….now its cool cause i stand naked, voulrnable yet full of hope and purpose which  I KNOW will make me whole!!!!!!
love
m
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just kinda noticing
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:25:13 -0800
Hi Bee and all,
I was thinking about checking in with the list today while I went for my lunchtime walk.  Yes, I am still in the “integration” process.  For me, I flew across the country, spent 4 days, came home, chilled out for 3 days then went back to work.  I never have cravings – except I had a craving for Ben & Jerry’s New York superfunk chunk (which I will have a bowl of after I’m done my miso soup 🙂
I’m not feeling like a prisoner to the past – but I am aware of some of the fallout from  past choices.  My practice is to give bringing myself back to NOW and what I have to or can do in that moment and hopefully have many moments of not doing anything, getting back to that “being” state as much as possible.
One insight I did have while walking – about how I’m much more able to feel any reactions that come up to external events, let the feeling happen without having to give it a lot of meaning or follow through on any reactions.  That’s a big one I got from my session where the events became separated from the feelings stuck in my system and being able to observe past events with no feelings.
There is no “why?”  For me, there is only how can I be now and is there anything I need to do?
Other than that, keeping in touch with the San Francisco area Ibo peeps and hopefully getting together soon to have a little group meeting about how we are doing and our experiences, ect.  And, what’s going on with the larger community.
Also, still integrating a lot I read in the latest Eckhart Tolle book that I brought to my session.  That was REALLY on the same vibration as my session.  Haven’t picked it up since I got back but will soon.
Thanks for thinking of us 🙂
brenda
On 11/30/05 8:25 PM, “Don Patton” <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
> Seems like our IBO peeps kinda withdraw for a while after treatment. No
> complaints, just an observation. I’m sure a rigorous “Readjustment”
> involves a rethinking of life and calling out in it’s entirety.
>
> Just wandering aimlessly, wondering about Kirk and Brenda. Luv ya too, Matt.
> I’ll shut up now….
>
> Bee
>
>
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>
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: December 1, 2005 at 2:55:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
no, they were trying to mix all the powder together
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:47:29 -0800
Were they searching for something?
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:59:02 -0800 matthew zielinski
<mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
>brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two
>african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side
and
>shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both
>hands and repeating the process
>
> crazy bwiti :]
>
> any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about
this
>because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to
>xray
>some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a
>greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i
>thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken
>disgusting shit!!!!!
>
> one love
>
> matt
>————————-
> From: _HSLotsof@aol.com_
>Reply-To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
>To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
>Subject: _Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang_
>Date: _Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST_
>In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com
>writes:
>No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a
>large
>box that was briming with it……
>Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see
>that
>the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is
>purely in the mind
>What did the box look like?
>
>Howard
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 2:50:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Luke
i took it all in one dose.  I was supose to divide in  two doses but i knew it would be hard to get it down later on
but fuk what an experience this was….im still overwhelmed by everything…..for some strange reason even the first reberthing experience wasnst as intense
btw anybody else gets that weird feeling on ibogaine when all those weird people//animals/beings give you that eerie look….i always feel guilty somehow….i always had the feeling they know im on ibogaine and try to convey to me that this is a real serious event in my life…that intense look in their eyes is undescribable
good good good
good
love
m
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:18:05 +0000
Hi Matt,
Was 25mg/kg your last trip? Did you take it in one does?
Luke
On 11/30/05, matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> Yah its funny how people complain about useless talk but dont even take time
> to answer legitimate questions people ask
>
> Bruce i just took around 25mg/kg without being dependent on anything but
> life :}
>
> Pacal —i think u ll get more responses if you adress the particular
> question in the subject line becuase most people dont bother opening their
> mail unless they see something that interests them
>
> love
>
> m
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
> Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:31:15 +0000 (GMT)
>
> Pascal,
>
> 189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong dose for a
> first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the amounts required
> for drug dependence you will see that with a body weight of 70kg over 1g is
> taken.
>
> The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is well
> documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Lee
>
> pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
> no reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
>
> it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s effect on
> ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
>
> this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
> someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
> approach.
>
> only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach, as
> they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
>
> sincerely,
>
> P.R.
>
>
> >From: Nowwarat@aol.com
> >To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
> >Subject: questions
> >Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
> >
> >Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually taken
> >over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams if you
> >weight
> >around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At least in
> >my
> >brief research.
> >
> >Bruce
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six
> year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing Process:
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
> My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and spiritual
> interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing list for those
> already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
>
> ________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: December 1, 2005 at 12:00:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/PascallBrenda wrote >I did yoga before work this AM!<
For the last three weeks now I’ve been doing the streches I learned on David Cassidy’s…oops, nope, totally wrong guy (but i’s a funny image though), I mean David Carridine’s Tai Chi for Beginners DVD, which unfortunately I can’t actually play right now, but can do all the pre-Tai Chi moves stretches he showed us/me how to do, what stretches we’re supposed to do before actually beginning Tai Chi. I’d bought myself a work out mat the last time I did ibo, but only used it for just under two weeks- now I’m using it, for the last three, now about 3 and a half weeks, 4 or 5 days a week, before I sit down to type, and I find it is really doing wonders for me, although I have to be careful because once or twice it made the pain in my right leg and side more aggrevated rather than helped. But for the most part I’m getting good rather than bad/negative effects from doing this. It’s one of a few habits I began to do all at the same time, and for some reason (KNOCK ON WOOD) I’ve been carrying through with the few habits I picked up with the aim of personal improvement.
  It’s a nice feeling, being all loose when I sit to type.
  I’m also doing that book reading for Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong at Manhattan’s Museum of Sex tonight, and here are the details (Check out my bio compared to most of the others- I think it’s a pretty cool bio, but then again, perhaps I should aim for a more “professional” tone when I create those stupid things for publishers and promoters):
WHEN:
Thursday, December 1, 2005, 7pm – 9pm
WHERE:
MUSEUM OF SEX
233 Fifth Avenue (@ 27th Street)
New York, NY 10016
212-689-6337
www.museumofsex.org
$10 for adults and $8 for students/members
WHAT:
Everything You Know About Sex is Wrong
Reading, Panel and Q&A
Moderated by Disinformation’s “Wicked Warlock” Richard Metzger
Come celebrate the release of Disinformation’s new book
EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT SEX IS WRONG
The Disinformation Guide to the Extremes of Human Sexuality
(and everything in between)
Edited by RUSS KICK
Scheduled to participate:
Writer and editor Rachel Kramer Bussel (Penthouse, Village Voice)
Writer/performer Christen Clifford (Babylove, 17 Guys I F**ked)
Author Martha Cornog (The Big Book of Masturbation)
Author Jay Gertzman (Bookleggers and Smuthounds: The Trade in Eroitca,
1920-1940)
Writer Jon Hart (New York Times, Village Voice)
Writer and Adult Marketing Nerd Libby Lynn (Rollertrain blog)
Author Rachel Maines (The Technology of Orgasm, Asbestos and Fire)
Author Jack Murnighan (The Naughty Bits, Classic Nasty)
Author, actor, DJ, musician, psychonaut, and explorer Preston Peet
Award winning journalist and writer Diane Petryk-Bloom
Pervert, smut peddler, and nakedteer Audacia Ray ($pread magazine)
Musician and Author Jen Sincero (The Straight Girl’s Guide to Sleeping
with Chicks)
Award-winning author, columnist, editor, director and sex educator
Tristan Taormino
Anyway, I hope some of you can make it but if not I understand.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: brenda brewer
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Dear PR,
This list was a “safe place” that I held on to getting ready to quit alcohol and have a session.  I know it’s probably hard enough dealing with the thought of quitting and the “unknown” let alone being politically correct. Don’ worry ’bout it 🙂
Keep doing your research and I also hope you feel inspired to keep going by whatever piques your interest here.  In time, provided you are able to follow through, you’ll have your wits more about you.
I know you can do it 🙂
I made a list of things I wanted to do when I felt better and shared it with the list…I did yoga before work this AM!  Shower time 🙂
brenda
On 11/30/05 11:42 PM, “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Jason,
thanks, really thanks. You are right, the fear of the unknown is there. Your
ranging scale for her./op./metha. confirm what I thought. Heroine should be
a harder drug than opium, which is the plant extract and often not 100% pure
as mixed by the dealers with garbage since sold on weight.
If it worked so often for heroine, then iboga should have similar or better
results even.
I know I have bored some of you, even shocked some you (Lee/Don Patton/V.V,
I guess).
I do not expect anything form further “basic” readings, even so I will
continue reading abt iboga. Will need to find some time to undergo iboga. By
then will share with you my experience.
Again, thanks to all those who took the time and effort to drop a mail.
Good bye,
P.R.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: December 1, 2005 at 10:04:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear PR,
This list was a “safe place” that I held on to getting ready to quit alcohol and have a session.  I know it’s probably hard enough dealing with the thought of quitting and the “unknown” let alone being politically correct.  Don’ worry ‘bout it 🙂
Keep doing your research and I also hope you feel inspired to keep going by whatever piques your interest here.  In time, provided you are able to follow through, you’ll have your wits more about you.
I know you can do it 🙂
I made a list of things I wanted to do when I felt better and shared it with the list…I did yoga before work this AM!  Shower time 🙂
brenda
On 11/30/05 11:42 PM, “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jason,
>
> thanks, really thanks. You are right, the fear of the unknown is there. Your
> ranging scale for her./op./metha. confirm what I thought. Heroine should be
> a harder drug than opium, which is the plant extract and often not 100% pure
> as mixed by the dealers with garbage since sold on weight.
>
> If it worked so often for heroine, then iboga should have similar or better
> results even.
>
> I know I have bored some of you, even shocked some you (Lee/Don Patton/V.V,
> I guess).
>
> I do not expect anything form further “basic” readings, even so I will
> continue reading abt iboga. Will need to find some time to undergo iboga. By
> then will share with you my experience.
>
> Again, thanks to all those who took the time and effort to drop a mail.
>
> Good bye,
>
> P.R.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: December 1, 2005 at 3:45:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Pascall,
Actually I find posts like these exciting,..you cannot bore me.
I was like you when first finding Ibo’.
                              love , Jasen
—– Original Message —– From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Hi Jason,
thanks, really thanks. You are right, the fear of the unknown is there. Your ranging scale for her./op./metha. confirm what I thought. Heroine should be a harder drug than opium, which is the plant extract and often not 100% pure as mixed by the dealers with garbage since sold on weight.
If it worked so often for heroine, then iboga should have similar or better results even.
I know I have bored some of you, even shocked some you (Lee/Don Patton/V.V, I guess).
I do not expect anything form further “basic” readings, even so I will continue reading abt iboga. Will need to find some time to undergo iboga. By then will share with you my experience.
Again, thanks to all those who took the time and effort to drop a mail.
Good bye,
P.R.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:36:43 +1000
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract,
but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face
the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of
withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the
risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Only relief by now lies in continuing my readings, and hopefully come to a
conclusion.
p.r.
Hello Pascall,
Opium withdrawal is shorter than Heroin withdrawal, heroin withdrawal is
shorter than methadone withdrawal.
As long you have a good provider I would imagine your withdrawals to be
very minimal if any
after taking Ibo’.
I understand your fear,..it is very natural for us to fear what we don’t
know.
I was on Methadone and using heroin for 23 years of my life,..since the age
of 15,.. I had a treatment one year ago
and have been free of opiate addiction since.
I did this treatment because nothing else I tried worked for me,..I was sick
and tired of being an addict,..tired of the
shackles. Pascall,…are you tired of addiction? Their is nothing to fear
here other than fear itself,..the unknown.
You have a higher chance of passing away from a broken finger than Ibo’. In
everything we do there is risk, the risk
here is minuscule.
If what you choose, is to be free of your opiate addiction,then in my
opinion I would highly reccomend Ibo’ as it worked
for me.
     with love, Jasen
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/
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From: Boris Leshinsky <bleshins@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] New Scientist: Anti-smoking drug may cut crystal meth craving
Date: December 1, 2005 at 3:31:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Anti-smoking drug may cut crystal meth craving
   * 18:21 29 November 2005
   * NewScientist.com news service
   * Will Knight
A popular treatment for nicotine addiction can also cut cravings among crystal meth addicts, a US study suggests.
Crystal meth – the commonly used term for methamphetamine – is a cheap and addictive drug that has become a massive problem in the US in recent years. It increases alertness and creates sensations of euphoria in users by stimulating the generation of dopamine and norepinephrine – neurotransmitters within the regions of the brain responsible for feelings of pleasure.
Bupropion – the active chemical ingredient found in the nicotine addiction drug, Zyban, as well as the anti-depressant Wellbutrin – was found to reduce the drug-induced high experienced by methamphetamine users and also to lessen their urge to take the drug in response to visual cues, in a study by researchers at the University of California in Los Angeles (UCLA).
Twenty methamphetamine users were given either 150 milligrams of bupropion twice a day for a week, or a placebo.
Subjects were then injected with 30 milligrams of methamphetamine and asked to rate the high they experienced on a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being the most intense imaginable. The users given doses of bupropion reported experiencing a significantly reduced high of, on average, 3 out of 10, compared to 5 out of 10 prior to the treatment.
“What we found, which was unexpected, was that it significantly reduced the euphoric effect,” Thomas Newton at UCLA, who led the study, told New Scientist.
Video footage
Bupropion is thought to reduce cravings for nicotine by preventing it from getting into receptive parts of the brain. However, the researchers behind the UCLA study believe it may cut cravings for crystal meth in a different way. The drug inhibits the uptake of dopamine and norepinephrine by brain cells so they stay around longer. This may lessen cravings for crystal meth by decreasing the withdrawal effects normally experienced by users, when the neurotransmitters are taken up by neurons.
Crystal meth users given bupropion also reported far less of a craving in response to video footage of actors simulating drug use. Such visual cues would normally be expected to trigger a strong impulse to take the drug.
Newton admits there may be confounding factors involved. For example, he says several of the subjects of the trial smoked, and that smoking may act as a cue for methamphetamine use. So bupropion might have had an indirect impact by reducing the subjects craving for nicotine.
The group has begun second stage trials and hopes to work out precisely how bupropion may decrease craving among crystal meth users. “These findings may point the way towards medications with even greater potential to be helpful,” Newton says.
Journal reference: Neuropsychopharmacology (advance online publication)
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: December 1, 2005 at 2:42:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Jason,
thanks, really thanks. You are right, the fear of the unknown is there. Your ranging scale for her./op./metha. confirm what I thought. Heroine should be a harder drug than opium, which is the plant extract and often not 100% pure as mixed by the dealers with garbage since sold on weight.
If it worked so often for heroine, then iboga should have similar or better results even.
I know I have bored some of you, even shocked some you (Lee/Don Patton/V.V, I guess).
I do not expect anything form further “basic” readings, even so I will continue reading abt iboga. Will need to find some time to undergo iboga. By then will share with you my experience.
Again, thanks to all those who took the time and effort to drop a mail.
Good bye,
P.R.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 16:36:43 +1000
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract,
but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face
the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of
withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the
risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Only relief by now lies in continuing my readings, and hopefully come to a
conclusion.
p.r.
Hello Pascall,
Opium withdrawal is shorter than Heroin withdrawal, heroin withdrawal is
shorter than methadone withdrawal.
As long you have a good provider I would imagine your withdrawals to be
very minimal if any
after taking Ibo’.
I understand your fear,..it is very natural for us to fear what we don’t
know.
I was on Methadone and using heroin for 23 years of my life,..since the age
of 15,.. I had a treatment one year ago
and have been free of opiate addiction since.
I did this treatment because nothing else I tried worked for me,..I was sick
and tired of being an addict,..tired of the
shackles. Pascall,…are you tired of addiction? Their is nothing to fear
here other than fear itself,..the unknown.
You have a higher chance of passing away from a broken finger than Ibo’. In
everything we do there is risk, the risk
here is minuscule.
If what you choose, is to be free of your opiate addiction,then in my
opinion I would highly reccomend Ibo’ as it worked
for me.
     with love, Jasen
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 2:33:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Peace love  light and laughter to all!!!
Mars is FINALLY backing off,
Let the peace reign again.’
Life is beautiful
(and all that hippy shit)
Hehe
Kirsty xxxxxxxxxxx
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2005 8:25 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Everything that Jon said 😉
Besides that you’re asking the same questions that have already been
asked and answered here 2000 times, so I’d guess that the people most
qualified to give your answers have gotten bored of it by now and may
occasionally say something if they read your message. This list can be
very high traffic sometimes and alot of people only read messages from
authors whose names they recongize and are interested in. or who use a
descriptive subject line 😉
* well noted, thanks.
* when I joined elistas-ibogaine network, abt. 1 week ago, Lee Albert&Matt
Z. redirected me to ibogaine-mindvox because me questions had no place in
that network. Fair enough, and that’s what I did.
* having joined mindvox since short time, did not know abt. the 2000
times/answers. Sorry.
* however, if people ask 2000 times the more or less same question, don’t
you think that there are still some interrogations abt the subject?
If you had looked, the same people here who would answer have already
written out detailed articles about the exact things you asked anyway.
http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html
‘Standard’ treatment dose from above and
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine.pdf
16-18 mg per kg, so obviously many people are doing more then a gram at
once for addiction interruption.
Lots of people here have detoxed from 10 years plus on opiates, high
doses of methadone, and so on.
Every question you asked can be answered using the first page of google
http://www.google.com/search?q=ibogaine
Which leads you right back to the main ibogaine sites, Howard’s
ibogaine.org, Nick’s ibogaine.co.uk, Patrick and Mindvox (you are here)
and Dana Beal’s site.
If you’d bothered to do even the most basic research and then asked
more questions, probably people would have been more helpful. Expecting
people to act as your personal help desk and reference for no charge is
maybe asking a bit much 😉
* do not agree. I did basic research, whatever basic might imply, but for
sure did not read everything. Til date could not read abt iboga as treatment
for opium. The articles I found refer to methadone, heroine, alcohol,
cigarettes.
But here some pages/sites are blocked by the authorities. Still I do not
believe those pages contained the answers.
* besides, I never intended to bore people, or use them as my helpdesk.
b.r.
p.r.
Still no matter what, there’s always going to be someone here who will
give you their personal experience.
.:vector:.
— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I
should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of
experimental
studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey
zones
remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s
the
main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga
aeroplane.
Well, think about this… how many people have taken ibogaine in the
last 40 years? maybe a few thousand?
Now, how many people have smoked cannabis in the same time? a few
hundred million? maybe more?
And we’re not a much closer to a full understanding of how cannabis
works than we are to a full understanding of how ibogaine works. In
fact, we’ve only had an inkling of how cannabis works for the past 15
years, while we’ve had some idea how ibogaine works for the past 20
years or so.
Now, I don’t know if those usage numbers are quite right, but you get
my
point. It takes a long time and many, many administrations (and
usually
lots of money) to understand how a drug works. Make no mistake,
ibogaine
is an EXPERIMENTAL medication. While we have some idea how best to
use
it, thanks to the many years of hard work of people like Howard, Dr.
Mash, etc., we still have a great deal to learn about it. And the
only
way we can learn more about it is by observing more people who take
it.
If you decide to take ibogaine, you are, at least in some sense,
volunteering as a guinea pig.
Whether or not ibogaine is a good choice for you can only be decided
by
YOU. How badly do you need to get off your drug of choice? How much
risk
is it worth taking to try to get clean?
For example, compared to the risks of shooting heroin every day, the
risks of taking ibogaine are minimal. Yes, people have died from
taking
ibogaine. But a heroin user is far more likely to die from HIV,
hepatitis, overdose, getting shot trying to score, etc, than they
would
be if they took ibogaine.
As with any medication, it’s a matter of balancing the potential
benefits with the potential risks.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 2:24:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:40:22 -0800 (PST)
Everything that Jon said 😉
Besides that you’re asking the same questions that have already been
asked and answered here 2000 times, so I’d guess that the people most
qualified to give your answers have gotten bored of it by now and may
occasionally say something if they read your message. This list can be
very high traffic sometimes and alot of people only read messages from
authors whose names they recongize and are interested in. or who use a
descriptive subject line 😉
* well noted, thanks.
* when I joined elistas-ibogaine network, abt. 1 week ago, Lee Albert&Matt Z. redirected me to ibogaine-mindvox because me questions had no place in that network. Fair enough, and that’s what I did.
* having joined mindvox since short time, did not know abt. the 2000 times/answers. Sorry.
* however, if people ask 2000 times the more or less same question, don’t you think that there are still some interrogations abt the subject?
If you had looked, the same people here who would answer have already
written out detailed articles about the exact things you asked anyway.
http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html
‘Standard’ treatment dose from above and
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles/MAPS-Ibogaine.pdf
16-18 mg per kg, so obviously many people are doing more then a gram at
once for addiction interruption.
Lots of people here have detoxed from 10 years plus on opiates, high
doses of methadone, and so on.
Every question you asked can be answered using the first page of google
http://www.google.com/search?q=ibogaine
Which leads you right back to the main ibogaine sites, Howard’s
ibogaine.org, Nick’s ibogaine.co.uk, Patrick and Mindvox (you are here)
and Dana Beal’s site.
If you’d bothered to do even the most basic research and then asked
more questions, probably people would have been more helpful. Expecting
people to act as your personal help desk and reference for no charge is
maybe asking a bit much 😉
* do not agree. I did basic research, whatever basic might imply, but for sure did not read everything. Til date could not read abt iboga as treatment for opium. The articles I found refer to methadone, heroine, alcohol, cigarettes.
But here some pages/sites are blocked by the authorities. Still I do not believe those pages contained the answers.
* besides, I never intended to bore people, or use them as my helpdesk.
b.r.
p.r.
Still no matter what, there’s always going to be someone here who will
give you their personal experience.
.:vector:.
— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
>
> > Nevertheless, and even so I did not complete all the reading as I
> > should, the impression grows that after over 40 years of
> experimental
> > studies and numerous clinical observations, not neglectable grey
> zones
> > remain. At least, that’s how it appears to me by now, and that’s
> the
> > main reason making me hesitating to book a ticket on an iboga
> aeroplane.
>
>
> Well, think about this… how many people have taken ibogaine in the
> last 40 years? maybe a few thousand?
>
> Now, how many people have smoked cannabis in the same time? a few
> hundred million? maybe more?
>
> And we’re not a much closer to a full understanding of how cannabis
> works than we are to a full understanding of how ibogaine works. In
> fact, we’ve only had an inkling of how cannabis works for the past 15
>
> years, while we’ve had some idea how ibogaine works for the past 20
> years or so.
>
> Now, I don’t know if those usage numbers are quite right, but you get
> my
> point. It takes a long time and many, many administrations (and
> usually
> lots of money) to understand how a drug works. Make no mistake,
> ibogaine
> is an EXPERIMENTAL medication. While we have some idea how best to
> use
> it, thanks to the many years of hard work of people like Howard, Dr.
> Mash, etc., we still have a great deal to learn about it. And the
> only
> way we can learn more about it is by observing more people who take
> it.
> If you decide to take ibogaine, you are, at least in some sense,
> volunteering as a guinea pig.
>
> Whether or not ibogaine is a good choice for you can only be decided
> by
> YOU. How badly do you need to get off your drug of choice? How much
> risk
> is it worth taking to try to get clean?
>
> For example, compared to the risks of shooting heroin every day, the
> risks of taking ibogaine are minimal. Yes, people have died from
> taking
> ibogaine. But a heroin user is far more likely to die from HIV,
> hepatitis, overdose, getting shot trying to score, etc, than they
> would
> be if they took ibogaine.
>
> As with any medication, it’s a matter of balancing the potential
> benefits with the potential risks.
>
>
>
__________________________________
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bam earthquake
Date: December 1, 2005 at 2:22:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Mr. Lotsof,
pls accept my apologies for my previous mail since it was for sure offending. Might be cheap to apologise like that. Will autocensure myself as from now on. Except for below reply which I owe you.
yes, I’m living in Iran since over a year, and before, visited the country on a weekly basis over the last 8 years.
Regarding that article, my comments as foll.:
– yes, opium addiction is very common in the male population, young or elder, whatever place in Iran.
Afghanistan is next to Iran and the major opium provider. Since the revolution, poppy cultivation is strictly prohibited.
– now for Bam, I could understand that the opium supply chain got interrupted after the catastrophe. People usually hide their amount of drug in their houses and most probably lost it. Opium being quite expensive for many locals, they often buy small quantities from local dealers who or passed away or lost their drug reserve as well.
– oral consumption is more economical compared to smoking, since it is 10 times more effective. That’s why addicted started eating it.
–  that other inhabitants made opium donations sounds a little bit strange because:
* opium is a very expensive item, taking into account local standard of living.
* those addicted will not easily come out and beg for their drug in public. Same for those who would make a gift. Society has a quite negative opinion of addicts, like everywhere.
* I could rather guess that days/weeks after the earthquake, an alternative opium business started flourishing. Opium providers form other villages/cities knowing quite well how to organise themselves in such situation, and for sure, prices started inflating. Good business for them!
b.r.
p.r.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:52:47 EST
In a message dated 11/30/05 11:19:18 AM, pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes:
> yr guidance was highly helpful as I most probably overlooked that section
> during my erratic internet search.
>
Hi, I think you mentioned in a prior email you are from Iran.   I am
attaching a pdf file of a paper on the Bam earthquake and the Iranian response.   I
was hoping you might comment from a user perspective.
Thanks
Howard
<< Bamurbanhealth.pdf >>
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions/Pascall
Date: December 1, 2005 at 1:36:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m ignorant about heroine effects, although opium is the mother extract,
but imagine a +/-12 years opium consentant opium hostage. How can he face
the idea of waking up after hours of iboga visions, undergoing the pain of
withdrawal without being allowed to use his drug to cut the pain? At the
risk to being listed as one of the some reported fatalities.
Only relief by now lies in continuing my readings, and hopefully come to a
conclusion.
p.r.
Hello Pascall,
Opium withdrawal is shorter than Heroin withdrawal, heroin withdrawal is
shorter than methadone withdrawal.
As long you have a good provider I would imagine your withdrawals to be
very minimal if any
after taking Ibo’.
I understand your fear,..it is very natural for us to fear what we don’t
know.
I was on Methadone and using heroin for 23 years of my life,..since the age
of 15,.. I had a treatment one year ago
and have been free of opiate addiction since.
I did this treatment because nothing else I tried worked for me,..I was sick
and tired of being an addict,..tired of the
shackles. Pascall,…are you tired of addiction? Their is nothing to fear
here other than fear itself,..the unknown.
You have a higher chance of passing away from a broken finger than Ibo’. In
everything we do there is risk, the risk
here is minuscule.
If what you choose, is to be free of your opiate addiction,then in my
opinion I would highly reccomend Ibo’ as it worked
for me.
     with love, Jasen
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: December 1, 2005 at 1:26:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Don,
got an idea now why you used the name superbee….
I did re read my mail, and accept that it was misplaced and not justified. It probably has offended some people.
I do not look for an excuse – like my opium dose which was probably to high that moment.
So I apologize publicly, and the mindvox master can excommunicate me. It’s OK for me.
Will comment on yr below questions separately,
b.r.
p.r.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: questions
Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 22:00:40 -0600
I gotta pick on this one….Not you, Lee, response much appreciated and
noted.
it seems to be more comfortable to comment
endlessly about iboga’s effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
The two are interrelated, the “Endlessly” adjective impunes your quest.
I get fed up here, too, and the group has been more than patient with
me. Think of this as a dinner party and you had just made that
announcement. We are not here solely for you, and etiquette gets
respect.
this leaves me the impression that those who
worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
One, it IS experimental, and two, scientific “Approach” by it’s name,
implies experimentation. The words “Worked” and “Remained” imply the
past tense, you have simply nullified your own sentence. You cannot
“Have worked” on an “Approach”, either there is a conclusion or it is
ongoing, and leaving out “Approach” from “Working” or worked negates
the action. Kinda like saying ” The chain fell off my bicycle,
therefore, no thought was ever given to my bicycle chain, other than an
experiment, and those that thought of it obviously didn’t comprehend
that if it could fall off and be useless, that it wasn’t needed in the
first place”. Is that “Someway in the realm” of whatever you meant to
say?
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of
the scientific approach, as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
I’d be really appreciative if you could state your point, rather than
your dissatisfaction. This is Rain Forest stuff, hidden knowledge, we
have Doctors here, and, there is no formula derived as of yet. Sorry.
The alternative is to buy a bag of dirt from some guy with no teeth,
cook it up and inject it, bypassing ANY natural abilities to filter out
garbage BEFORE it gets to our brain, as well as bypass any common
sense. Then, by demanding fatality rates and wrapping prejucial
questions,  possible eradication of an epidemic is overlooked.  Hear
me, I said “Possible”. Much research needs and will be done.
I got gripes about this place, too, dude, but I think you have
underestimated the clientele. We actually form ideas here, if you wanna
spout disassociative drivel, please form cognitive sentences or at
least don’t complain that you are being ignored.
Bee
Lee Albert wrote:
 Pascal,
 189lbs=approx.86Kg. At 86kg, 1.5grams=17.4mg/kg, a pretty strong
dose for a first time if you are not drug dependent. If you check the
amounts required for drug dependence you will see that with a body
weight of 70kg over 1g is taken.
 The reason you probably didn’t get an answer is because this is
well documented and so your question got overlooked I imagine.
 Hope that helps.
 Lee
 pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
 no
reply whatsoever, unless I do not know where to fish the answers….
it seems to be more comfortable to comment endlessly about iboga’s
effect on
ego/mind than elaborating on iboga’s ways of use and consumption.
this leaves me the impression that those who worked on iboga remained
someway in the realm of experimentary ways, leaving out the scientific
approach.
only the Bwitis might be able to keep out of the scientific approach,
as
they benefit of a long, old oral tradition.
sincerely,
P.R.
>From: Nowwarat@aol.com
>To: pascal-roland@hotmail.com
>Subject: questions
>Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 08:06:34 EST
>
>Add to those thoughtful questions another one. Has anyone actually
taken
>over one gram of Ibo Hcl? People say to take one and a half grams
if you
>weight
>around189. But people talk about taking one gram but not more. At
least in
>my
>brief research.
>
>Bruce
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 Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga /
ibogaine over a six year period. Includes section on the Eboga Healing
Process: www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html.
 My Eboga: A website dedicated to practical guidance and
spiritual interpretation of the eboga experience. Includes a mailing
list for those already initiated: www.my-eboga.com/network.html.
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang
Date: December 1, 2005 at 12:47:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Were they searching for something?
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:59:02 -0800 matthew zielinski
<mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:
brown paper box with handles made to hold it on both sides….two
african fellows staring intently into it, each holding one side
and
shaking vigourously, puting it down sifting through it with both
hands and repeating the process
crazy bwiti :]
any other comments about the hcl?….i m really curious about
this
because before i started vomiting i had this amazing ability to
xray
some parts of my body and i saw my stomach lining filled with a
greenish yeloowish sesspool of god knows what and immieditly i
thought oh fuk the hcl and thats when i started vomiting—–fuken
disgusting shit!!!!!
one love
matt
————————-
From: _HSLotsof@aol.com_
Reply-To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
Subject: _Re: [Ibogaine] urgent message from the bwiti gang_
Date: _Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:54:05 EST_
In a message dated 11/28/05 12:27:45 PM, mattzielinski@hotmail.com
writes:
No they didnt say where it was but they were sifting through a
large
box that was briming with it……
Please elaborate on what you mean by this >>>>>>>They cannot see
that
the division between what is man-made and what is nature-made is
purely in the mind
What did the box look like?
Howard
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) but very, very funny
Date: December 1, 2005 at 12:44:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hope I haven’t missed much – this post filled my mailbox.
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 16:54:58 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
This was sent by a friend of our in Switzerland, and to those
whose computers can’t handle muchbandwidth in their box, I
apologize- this is for those who can handle it, and it’s very
funny.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Vanessa Cleary
To: Eleanora
Cc: Mika Frazi ; erica ; ANNA CURTIS ; Maral Sari ; Preston Peet ;
Ninjastarrecords@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:28 PM
Subject: Fw: vive le week-end
Hey all,my friend gabi sent me this video attachmet-pretty cute-
LUv nesss
—– Original Message —–
From: Gabriela Vuichoud
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 4:05 AM
Subject: vive le week-end
I know.it’s only Tuesday.but.I’m already looking forward to the
weekend.Enjoy! G
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Just kinda noticing
Date: December 1, 2005 at 12:25:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Bee and all,
I was thinking about checking in with the list today while I went for my lunchtime walk.  Yes, I am still in the “integration” process.  For me, I flew across the country, spent 4 days, came home, chilled out for 3 days then went back to work.  I never have cravings – except I had a craving for Ben & Jerry’s New York superfunk chunk (which I will have a bowl of after I’m done my miso soup 🙂
I’m not feeling like a prisoner to the past – but I am aware of some of the fallout from  past choices.  My practice is to give bringing myself back to NOW and what I have to or can do in that moment and hopefully have many moments of not doing anything, getting back to that “being” state as much as possible.
One insight I did have while walking – about how I’m much more able to feel any reactions that come up to external events, let the feeling happen without having to give it a lot of meaning or follow through on any reactions.  That’s a big one I got from my session where the events became separated from the feelings stuck in my system and being able to observe past events with no feelings.
There is no “why?”  For me, there is only how can I be now and is there anything I need to do?
Other than that, keeping in touch with the San Francisco area Ibo peeps and hopefully getting together soon to have a little group meeting about how we are doing and our experiences, ect.  And, what’s going on with the larger community.
Also, still integrating a lot I read in the latest Eckhart Tolle book that I brought to my session.  That was REALLY on the same vibration as my session.  Haven’t picked it up since I got back but will soon.
Thanks for thinking of us 🙂
brenda
On 11/30/05 8:25 PM, “Don Patton” <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
> Seems like our IBO peeps kinda withdraw for a while after treatment. No
> complaints, just an observation. I’m sure a rigorous “Readjustment”
> involves a rethinking of life and calling out in it’s entirety.
>
> Just wandering aimlessly, wondering about Kirk and Brenda. Luv ya too, Matt.
> I’ll shut up now….
>
> Bee
>
>
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>
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