Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-12

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:40:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/31/2005 9:45:56 PM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Should i stop communicating as Capt KIrk? ;o)
does it really matter?
As long as you are not a Klingon I don’t think it matters. Those Klingons are a whole other story!
Callie
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:57:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
lol, there was no point to what i wrote, it was purely my
wierd sense of humour ;o)
—– Original Message Follows —–
ahahah… good point, maybe that wasn’t the best example
to use =)
captkirk wrote:
Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy
Pants.
From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am
talking Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they
do in some way cause nerve and/or brain damage.
Luff lite n Lafta
to all
Happy noo yeahsss
I have showered for the last time this year.
yahoo.
Kirk xxx
—– Original Message Follows —–
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot
conclude from such a  study that opiates CAUSE brain
damage, rather it is evidence that such  drug use is
ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference
between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain
damage. Let’s say  for some reason, cocaine users like
to >>wear baggie pants. If you did a  study like this one,
then >>you would find that wearing baggy pants is
associated >>with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie
pants >>themselves  do not cause the brain damage, they
are just >>correlated with something  that does, i.e. the
cocaine >>use. In this study you posted, there is no  way
to tell if >>the opiates cause the brain damage or just
happen to be  >>correlated with something else that does,
like maybe poor >>nutrition or  lack of sleep or
something. >>
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first
because it studied  twice as many drug users as it did
non-users. But more importantly, this  sample of people
died very young and therefore do not represent the
general population. Even if you did find that opiates
cause brain damage  in this specific population, that
doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage,
a >>great deal  more research would have to be done. The
only >>thing this study provides  is a reason to pursue
further >>such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than
good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though
addiction results  from a number of factors. One of
these >>factors is changes in brain  chemistry resulting
from long >>term consumption of certain drugs, but
“changes in the >>brain” is not the same thing as “brain
damage”. >>
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve
damage. >>>Damage of nerve  cell receptor sites that are
scarred by >>>physical form of opioid type  molecules .
Modern >>>Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that
so  they >>
can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is
easy >>
to start  believing that opiates won’t hurt your
nerve
system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on
opiates. Saliva glend  >>> is just one of organs that do
not function properly when on opiates  >>> for most
people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that
makes  >>
teeth root from within. >>
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new
MSN
Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:23:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Should i stop communicating as Capt KIrk? ;o)
does it really matter?
xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
Maybe stop this whole “Koko” thing, Ron. Just start
communicating from the heart, as YOU.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: koko [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 30 December 2005 19:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse
klown >
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a
benign email to the forum but instead was interpreted as
more pity party.  man, i’m way off. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse
klown >
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb
arse klown >>
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED
PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM, >> BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO
TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN >> MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE
LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND >> PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.
WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF >> BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING
FOR A >> SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A
TRICK. >> PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT
THE PIECES BACK.  i >> COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK
TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY >> CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE
COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY
AGE, NOT ALLOWING >> ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL
THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO >> WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT
SO DEPLETED >> AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF
TOGETHER AGAIN >> PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT
INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN >> AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A
PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER
SOME OF MY >> COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron
GOTTA START >> SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON
ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING >> DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.
AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT >> WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT
W/ AN ADDICT >> TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND
THE ONLY >> ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS
COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.
ALL THOSE WERE >> MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN
A SOUTHERN >> FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL.
koko >
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this
colossal “poor me” trip you’re on. It’s not just up to
the treatment, whether ibogaine or whatever, to help
you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to
do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that
starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that
takes personal responsibility for himself, not as some
tragic victim of life. >
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through
your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me”
subtext. Actually it’s just a colossal ego trip and
underneath you are as angry as hell. >
Nick
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:21:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for this Ron.  Don’t know about others, but it always
helps to know a bit of background about people.  Yours has
been a hard road by the sounds, what do you mean when you
say the ibo kicked your ass? I don’t think i’ve heard you
talk about the session much… I would be interested to know
what happened, thats if you want to talk about it.
anyway big hugs from the Captain.  Stick with the list for
sure. Don’t let anyone chase you off.  It’s helped me so
much and it can help you too. You’ll get there, i know you
will. Depression sux big time.  I’m actually glad i went
thru it, it’s helped me understand so much.
Take care of u
Luff heaps
Kirk xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
Thanks for the interest in my sitch. I’m on bup.  Been
unhappy for 4 yrs. since I started using again after 15+
yrs. toal sobriety( no mood or mind altering drugs ‘cept
coffee)  .  Bup was pitched to me as a way to get off
oxys.  I was off the chart. I was told stuff was not
addicting  or at least “not very”  whatever that means. It
was later approved as a means for maintenance and then the
facts started comming down…longer half life than meth,
bitch to kick,  you know the drill.   I picked up after
surgery and went to the races b/4 the bup.. My tolerances
went back to 70’s level and more and I was doing 12 80 mg.
oxys a day.  That’s the equiv. of  about 192
percocets/tylox a day. Once I switched to bup, which is an
art in itself after doing so many oxys, my tolerance for
that stuff went to the moon when the med. est. said one
doesn’t acquire a tolerance for bup.    When I did my
session that I was really looking forward too, I was
treated by lay people from the list that had ben maligned
by the pros and  treated great.  Everyone that’s been
around knows him.  He helped me finally get off benzos
which was another story, but the IBO d/n take or I did not
take the IBO. It beat me up or something did.  No opiate
w/ds( i had switched back to oxys for 2 weeks b/4 the
journey), but the experience kicked my arse. As stated
sometime ago, I allowed myself 10 days for this which was
not nearly enough time.  I d/n know if it was the long
lasting drugs I was taking b/4 the session or my age (56)
but I could barrely walk.  when I went to work everyone
looked at my like I was death eating a biscuit, c/n think,
c/n function in my profession and bingo, I was popping bup
again.  instant relief and the depression started
immediately.  I went from hope to whad da fuck happened.?
My pessimissim, cynicism , fears, self pity all went
hywire as you guys have seen  this last yr.  If you asked
me, ron, would you like to offend about 100 or so people
that want you well and tick people off, I’d say no way. I
d/n want to be offensive to anyone. I have spent the last
20 yrs. helping indigent people that cops screw over and
who screw themselves over.  Kept a few off death row. Now
my career stagnat es as I limit what I do when in this
state when those I work with have so much at stake.  So,
there it is…not everyone likes everyone else to state it
simply.  That’s why they make Fords and Chevys I guess.  I
will stay with list as long as folks can stomach me and
hopefully contribute something meaningful.  Older I get
the less I realize I know.  An addict’s basement today can
be tomorrow’s penthouse.  Sure hope I and everyone else
seeking to stay straight make it.  It is a life
threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped
away for a week session  and then began sleeping like
babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them.  ron
 —– Original Message —–
 From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
 To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM
 Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse
klown
 In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central
Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
   how can koko be responsible for
   feeling like hell after a session?
 I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so
honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit
after trying something that everyone else has had positive
result from.
 Nothing is 100 %.
 Are you unhappy on Methadone?
 When is the last time you felt happy? What was your
situation at that time?
 Callie
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] alternative theory of intelligent design
Date: December 31, 2005 at 9:39:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
http://www.venganza.org/
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subject: an alternative Intelligent Design theory
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:02:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HA ha ha!  The second time today I read something hilarious about IDT –
weird!
brenda
On 12/31/05 6:51 PM, “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
It’s at
http://www.venganza.org/
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Subject: an alternative Intelligent Design theory
Date: December 31, 2005 at 9:51:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s at
http://www.venganza.org/
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] All wired up, ain’t gonna take no more!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:52:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hackers Rebel Against Spy Cams
author: Ann Harrison / Wired News
Dec 29, 2005 19:08
When the Austrian government passed a law this year allowing police to
install closed-circuit surveillance cameras in public spaces without a court
order, the Austrian civil liberties group Quintessenz vowed to watch the
watchers.
Members of the organization worked out a way to intercept the camera images
with an inexpensive, 1-GHz satellite receiver. The signal could then be
descrambled using hardware designed to enhance copy-protected video as it’s
transferred from DVD to VHS tape.
The Quintessenz activists then began figuring out how to blind the cameras
with balloons, lasers and infrared devices.
And, just for fun, the group created an anonymous surveillance system that
uses face-recognition software to place a black stripe over the eyes of
people whose images are recorded.
Quintessenz members Adrian Dabrowski and Martin Slunksy presented their
video-surveillance research at the 22nd annual Chaos Communication Congress
here this week. Five hundred hackers jammed into a meeting room for a
presentation that fit nicely into CCC’s 2005 theme of “private
investigations.”
Slunksy pointed out that searching for special strings in Google, such as
axis-cgi/, will return links that access internet-connected cameras around
the world. Quintessenz developers entered these Google results into a
database, analyzed the IP addresses and set up a website that gives users
the ability to search by country or topic — and then rate the cameras.
“You can use this to see if you are being watched in your daily life,” said
Dabrowski.
The conference, hosted by Germany’s Chaos Computer Club, featured many
discussions on data interception and pushing back the unprecedented
onslaught of surveillance technologies.
Even the Dutch, once known as hacker-friendly, politically progressive
Europeans, are now fearful and demanding more cameras on their streets, said
Rop Gonggrijp, founder of Dutch ISP Xs4All.
Gonggrijp says the Dutch chief of police has announced the intention to
store large amounts of surveillance data and mine it to determine who to
pressure and question. “People are screaming for more control,” said
Gonggrijp.
Dutch journalist Brenno de Winter warned that the European Parliament’s
support for data retention doesn’t ensure security, and makes citizens
vulnerable to automated traffic analysis of who communicates with whom
through phone calls and internet connections. “What we have seen is a system
that fails because we miss out on too much information, and even if we have
all that information, it doesn’t give us the right information and it is
easy to circumvent,” said de Winter.
CCC member and security researcher Frank Rieger said hackers should provide
secure communications for political and social movements and encourage the
widespread use of anonymity technologies. He said people on the other side
of the camera need to be laughed at and shamed.
“It must not be cool anymore to have access to this data,” said Rieger, who
argued that Western societies are becoming democratically legitimized police
states ruled by an unaccountable elite. “We have enough technical knowledge
to turn this around; let’s expose them in public, publish everything we know
about them and let them know how it feels to be under surveillance.”
The four-day Chaos Computer Congress is meeting near Alexanderplatz in the
former East Berlin, where more than a half-million people rallied for
political reform five days before the fall of the Berlin Wall.
In his keynote address, Joichi Ito, general manager of international
operations for Technorati, warned that the internet could itself become a
walled-in network controlled by the International Telecommunication Union,
Microsoft and telecommunications companies.
Ito said these restrictions would stifle free speech and the ability to
question authority without retribution. “An open network is more important
for democracy than the right to bear arms and the right to vote,” said Ito.
“Voice is more important than votes.”
  http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,69942-0.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:04:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ahahah… good point, maybe that wasn’t the best example to use =)
captkirk wrote:
Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy
Pants.
From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am talking
Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they do in some
way cause nerve and/or brain damage.
Luff lite n Lafta
to all
Happy noo yeahsss
I have showered for the last time this year.
yahoo.
Kirk xxx
—– Original Message Follows —–
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot
conclude from such a  study that opiates CAUSE brain
damage, rather it is evidence that such  drug use is
ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain
damage. Let’s say  for some reason, cocaine users like to
wear baggie pants. If you did a  study like this one, then
you would find that wearing baggy pants is  associated
with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants
themselves  do not cause the brain damage, they are just
correlated with something  that does, i.e. the cocaine
use. In this study you posted, there is no  way to tell if
the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor
nutrition or  lack of sleep or something.
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first
because it studied  twice as many drug users as it did
non-users. But more importantly, this  sample of people
died very young and therefore do not represent the general population. Even if you did find that opiates
cause brain damage  in this specific population, that
doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a
great deal  more research would have to be done. The only
thing this study provides  is a reason to pursue further
such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than
good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though
addiction results  from a number of factors. One of these
factors is changes in brain  chemistry resulting from long
term consumption of certain drugs, but  “changes in the
brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage.
Damage of nerve  cell receptor sites that are scarred by
physical form of opioid type  molecules . Modern
Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so  they
can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy
to start  believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve
system: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on
opiates. Saliva glend  >>> is just one of organs that do
not function properly when on opiates  >>> for most
people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes
teeth root from within. >>
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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__________________________________________________________
_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:20:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:
i love burroughs… he’s
definately a big
inspiration for me, and i think he definately offers
a lot to learn from.
i just mean that he didn’t exactly lead the happiest
or healthiest
life… so if you’re goal is to be happy and
healthy, you’d probably
wanna pass on some of the things he did..
you know, supressing your homosexuality for 30 or 40
years, murdering
you wife, having to watch your only son die of
alcoholism at half your
age… not exactly keys to a blissful existence
there =)
but then, few geniuses are happy people…
Burroughs Rehab:
well,
Compaired to 12 steps, anything sounds good,
but it could work
in practice as a tool
eXspecially works if
your not gay, never been married, and don’t have a
son, so I didn’t focus much on that part of it I
guess.
But he was healthy, physically lived to old age.
Smart Feller who Got to Nod plenty.  Good for him I
guess.
I’m sure met some unknowing ibogaine subjects in
Lexington during his stay there but
who’s to say…
I still haven’t tracked down the address for the old
ft.worth narcotic farm.
but  to be honest I’ve never read one burroughs  book
ever from cover to cover without falling asleep fast.
most “beat writers” are too homo erotic for my taste.
Sounds more like MichaL (come sit my lap) Jackson’s
cup of tea then anything that can keep my interest
longer then 7 seconds.
The interviews are a little interesting though I guess
oh and the yage letters:
“maybe yage will be the final kick”
I’d like to find “the third mind” if I run across it.
Cheers and New Yearz
-Jason
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:52:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Koko – not to judge you at all, but just imagine if someone else stood over you constantly and said the sorts of things to you that you seem to say to yourself all day.  I agree with Nick  that you’d want to KILL the person.  Self talk is huge (in my humble opinion.)  I know it sounds trite as hell, but my life really did change when I took Oprah Winfrey’s suggestion to write (or even speak aloud at night before bed) 5 things I was grateful for that day.  It might be a kiss from my dog, or a good meal, a beautiful view of a cloud passing by – just that simple.
I have a bad habit of always giving advice, but can’t help it here.  It doesn’t cost much to give it a try, and I only support it because this bit helped me more than I could’ve imagined.  Best to you Ron.  I know you feel lousy and I wish you could feel better…
Sandy
From:  brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Date:  Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:42:09 -0800
>On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
>
> >> man, i’m way off.
> >
> > If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
> > again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
> >
>
>Sure.  Perhaps,
>
>It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
>give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
>
>Keep hangin’ in Koko.
>
>brenda
>
>
>
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:07:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on methadone, from all the way up to a 100 millgrams where I stayed a very short time (a month or two) down to the 40 I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day, I was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining that 40 miolgrams was “too much,” except that considering I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin, I suppose any methadone is “too much” in that particular context and viewpoint.
sweating is a pretty common side effect of opiates in general…
i sweat like a pig when i’m on (recreational doses of) any opiate, even codeine…
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:55:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This begs the question of how Ron can learn to get what he needs on
the Internet. He keeps repeating the same behavior and drawing the
same responses from people since some time before you showed up.
Your response is that the world needs to change to accommodate Ron.
My response is that Ron needs to be more aware of what he is doing
if he wants to avoid such reactions.
It’s ironic that your skepticism is in response to the only person
who looked beyond his masochistic display and answered his
question.
I can see that.  This was a much more thoughtful treatment and I get what
you are saying.  I wasn’t really getting it from your original post.  It
felt like flat out criticism to me.   I also don’t judge people from their
posts and honestly, I was responding to your post, not to you, if that makes
sense.
As far as the comment that I think the world needs to change for Ron, I
think that’s a pretty broad interpretation of what I wrote. It’s not what I
meant.
Anyhoo, I hope everyone has a great day!  I love my life!  Lorena rocks, too
🙂  She’s putting some quarters in the meter and I’m wrapping up this reply
I started a while ago.
Take it easy,
brenda
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From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown (to Callie)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:47:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron
I have been reading this list for a couple of years now and i dont remember one person who “slipped away for a week, did a session and slept like babies afterward. I seem to recall many a post-treatment reports from many folks who were dealing with sleplessness, fatigue, and more …As much as fucking miracle this root is it aint a week and your ‘fixed’ and i dont recall reading or even hearing anyone say it was. And i would appreciate you refreshing mine/our memories if I am wrong
Happy New Year
Jeff
On 12/31/05, koko <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
 It is a life threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped away for a week session  and then began sleeping like babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them.  ron
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
how can koko be responsible for
feeling like hell after a session?
I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.
Nothing is 100 %.
Are you unhappy on Methadone?
When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?
Callie
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:44:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
And Jon, you usually are one of the most on the mark
people on this list but your remark on burroughs is
way off.  the answer is buried in there, Gysin
Whatever.  Whanna collaborate on a cut up ibogaine
paper.
oh don’t get me wrong… i love burroughs… he’s definately a big inspiration for me, and i think he definately offers a lot to learn from.
i just mean that he didn’t exactly lead the happiest or healthiest life… so if you’re goal is to be happy and healthy, you’d probably wanna pass on some of the things he did..
you know, supressing your homosexuality for 30 or 40 years, murdering you wife, having to watch your only son die of alcoholism at half your age… not exactly keys to a blissful existence there =)
but then, few geniuses are happy people…
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 2:19:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:42:09 -0800 brenda brewer
<shakti@photon.net> wrote:
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed
enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
This begs the question of how Ron can learn to get what he needs on
the Internet. He keeps repeating the same behavior and drawing the
same responses from people since some time before you showed up.
Your response is that the world needs to change to accommodate Ron.
My response is that Ron needs to be more aware of what he is doing
if he wants to avoid such reactions.
It’s ironic that your skepticism is in response to the only person
who looked beyond his masochistic display and answered his
question.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown(to Randy)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:28:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for the well reasoned thoughtful insight. Man< I wish I had the time but work is leaning heavy on me and I don’t have a war chest. Best wishes for the new year, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2 months. I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about 2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says, “at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.”  So your on bupe again, ‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own shots in the end.      Randy
From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown (for Brenda)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:30:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “brenda brewer” <shakti@photon.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Dr Ed
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:37:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx for your support of my “theory.”  I wish I knew of someone who was experi-menting on this hypothesis, but I don’t.  I offered it ten years ago at the NIH in D.C. and to Dr. Mash, but no responses.  They are all wrapped up in the “modern” micro-analysis of brain centers and chemicals.  I prefer a macro-analysis of “normal healing mechanisms” of the brain, such as Sleep.  Many primitive societies have been fascinated with Dreams, Native Americans prize them.  Perhaps I’ve got to get to some of the national meetings on the subject and ask questions.  Please take care.  Dr. Ed
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:30:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/31/2005 12:27:20 AM Central Standard Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:
 cocaine users like to wear baggie pants.
LMFAO!!!!
JFreed, I love you!
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:05:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Maybe stop this whole “Koko” thing, Ron. Just start communicating from the
heart, as YOU.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: koko [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 30 December 2005 19:20
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email to the
forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party.  man, i’m
way off. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE
WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN
AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST
PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes,
YOU) have to
do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with
beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your
mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:03:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/31/05 8:38:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, morning_wood263@yahoo.com writes:
Is anyone goine to record the new talk in New York??
J, I’ll be there and I bet it will be recorded in a couple of different formats. I’ll ask around and see for sure.             Randy
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Case Study Research
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:45:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’ll be two years for me in March..  I was on heroin/oxycontin for about 3 years, then got on methadone at 100mgs a day, for over 3 years..  I did Iboga in march of 04, so this year will be 2 years clean from opiates.  I haven’t had any problems, although, for the first couple weeks after, I needed to take it easy and regain my vigor..  After 2 months, I felt pretty much normal, and now I feel like I never had a problem…
lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lorena
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please help SOS help::: Calling all Agents, Doctors, Scientists and publishers of medical journals SOS
Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:56:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I am currently
trying to find studies of opiates/opioids
used as anti-psychotic
or especially during
in TBI (Tramatic Brain Injury).
 Any help would really be swell.
Oh and I’m pretty sure Dana Beal is the anti-Christ or
maybe it was George Bush, or both who knows, (who says
it’s limited to one person) I honestly don’t recall.
But I’d love access to the NSA audio to have” fun fun
fun”
Regarding guarding about things, the delema seems to
be morphing into the very thing that trying to protect
against.
For me it ‘s fucking George White.
The pure personification of Evil.
Satan is George White.
But in trying to protect oneself from George White
one becomes him or at least partially so.
“you aremn
t making any sense and your spellikng sucks.”
Well go fuck yoursl;ef then or spend more time alone
on the internet since it seems to work so well for
yiouo alreadty you ignorant fujcking monkey to open
every door.
type individuals that exist  one has to welcome and
or  4 or 5 moves ahead.  So goddamn predictable it’s
pathetic.  Just make the whole thing a worldwide
reality show and watch us blow ourselves up for our
own  amusement.
But seriouslly,
any
double blind
studies
regarding opioids
used as treatment of
Tramatic Brain Injury
would be supa cool.
I need your help.
Thank you
You Rock
Your beautiful
Kiss hug cuddle cuddle cuddle
.
__________________________________
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:22:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Don:
you are a shining example of what I don’t want to be if I ever get straight.  thanks for the reminders.  However, each has there own way and you are free to take shots at me everytime I step out on this list.  Have at bro’, it’s good target practice for other’s who aren’t as self actualized as you. I can tell by your insightful comments you’ve been straight for a long time and actually appreciate the constructive criticism you always offer.  Many thanks.  I’m working on my new Mavis Bacon typing program to get in step, lest my font rub you the wrong way.  peace, you win and well wishes for the new year, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Don Patton
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Now, I’m not developed, ahh.Cuckoo for cocoa puffs, gimme a hug, Ron!
brenda brewer wrote:
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown (to Callie)
Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:04:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks for the interest in my sitch. I’m on bup.  Been unhappy for 4 yrs. since I started using again after 15+ yrs. toal sobriety( no mood or mind altering drugs ‘cept coffee)  .  Bup was pitched to me as a way to get off oxys.  I was off the chart. I was told stuff was not addicting  or at least “not very”  whatever that means. It was later approved as a means for maintenance and then the facts started comming down…longer half life than meth, bitch to kick,  you know the drill.   I picked up after surgery and went to the races b/4 the bup.. My tolerances went back to 70’s level and more and I was doing 12 80 mg. oxys a day.  That’s the equiv. of  about 192 percocets/tylox a day. Once I switched to bup, which is an art in itself after doing so many oxys, my tolerance for that stuff went to the moon when the med. est. said one doesn’t acquire a tolerance for bup.    When I did my session that I was really looking forward too, I was treated by lay people from the list that had ben maligned by the pros and treated great.  Everyone that’s been around knows him.  He helped me finally get off benzos which was another story, but the IBO d/n take or I did not take the IBO.
It beat me up or something did.  No opiate w/ds( i had switched back to oxys for 2 weeks b/4 the journey), but the experience kicked my arse. As stated sometime ago, I allowed myself 10 days for this which was not nearly enough time.  I d/n know if it was the long lasting drugs I was taking b/4 the session or my age (56) but I could barrely walk.  when I went to work everyone looked at my like I was death eating a biscuit, c/n think, c/n function in my profession and bingo, I was popping bup again.  instant relief and the depression started immediately.  I went from hope to whad da fuck happened.?  My pessimissim, cynicism , fears, self pity all went hywire as you guys have seen  this last yr.  If you asked me, ron, would you like to offend about 100 or so people that want you well and tick people off, I’d say no way. I d/n want to be offensive to anyone. I have spent the last 20 yrs. helping indigent people that cops screw over and who screw themselves over.  Kept a few off death row. Now my career stagnates as I limit what I do when in this state when those I work with have so much at stake.  So, there it is…not everyone likes everyone else to state it simply.  That’s why they make Fords and Chevys I guess.  I will stay with list as long as folks can stomach me and hopefully contribute something meaningful.  Older I get the less I realize I know.  An addict’s basement today can be tomorrow’s penthouse.  Sure hope I and everyone else seeking to stay straight make it.  It is a life threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped away for a week session  and then began sleeping like babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them.  ron
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
how can koko be responsible for
feeling like hell after a session?
I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.
Nothing is 100 %.
Are you unhappy on Methadone?
When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?
Callie
From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode
Date: December 31, 2005 at 8:19:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the exact problem is the requirement by any
establishment that is willing to prescribe any
realistic doses of opioids to have a policy of already
having being addicted, addicted in the sense of
already haveing a tolerence.
If I have 260mg of methadone a day that I wasn’t
REQUIRED to take everyday then things would work.  but
Pain managmemnt cliknics aren’t going to likke hearing
ao but my past with methadone or perhaps why bring it
up.   It is all solme fucked up game .  I’m feelikng
like Ron right now.  Hope your doling well by the Way.
Send me some heroin soon.  I know yiour good for it.
So help me find a scientific excuse for using
prescribption opiates agiaine already !!!!!!!!!!
and not fucking methadone….I do not feel; like that
bore againe and the power trip by staff is beyond
sadistic.
And Jon, you usually are one of the most on the mark
people on this list but your remark on burroughs is
way off.  the answer is buried in there, Gysin
Whatever.  Whanna collaborate on a cut up ibogaine
paper.
Is anyone goine to record the new talk in New York??
Why not???????
__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 5:13:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lori
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:13:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yeh so somene else said…obviously it doesnt agree with
everyone and YES i agree we should get drug of choice what
the helll is the big drama with that, Liverpool in England,
if i remember rightly had heroin programs.. maybe you shuld
move cuntries? lol
cunt-try of a thing really isn’t it ;o)
i considre myself lucky to feel as normal as i do on this
shit. I’ve had hormone imbalances of progesterone that cause
nasty excessive sweating so i can relate to that it fucking
sux.
did u try lower than 40 mgs and did u feel comfortable on
that amount? i dont know… just asking 🙂  xx
happy noooooooooooo yeahsssssssss
Kia Kaha (stay strong)
and loads of
AROHA (love)
to everyone here xx
—– Original Message Follows —–
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..<
I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on
methadone, from all the  way up to a 100 millgrams where I
stayed a very short time (a month or two)  down to the 40
I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day,
I  was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining
that 40 miolgrams was  “too much,” except that considering
I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin,  I suppose any
methadone is “too much” in that particular context and
viewpoint.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often  mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,  Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to
Drugs” Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that
it dries up the saliva in the mouth,  which has anti
toof rotting stuff in it (god im so medical, I stun
myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.
Chewing gum is good for people on the done to help
protect the teeth….although  im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything
these days.. >
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend
takeaways.  Once a week!! Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was
determined this time to not be on it for long.. and as
it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.
My counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents
and sleeping bags to people in more remote areas who
were without aid to date. Just to give an idea the type
of human being she is. She also wants to come see me
during the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into
eastern style stuff, meditation , Buddhism etc.  new
doctor at clinic is into alternative therapies.. (thnk
I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a
bitch!!) Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the
methadone clinics around  the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..it shouldn’t be  a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know
what else they put  in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Rocky
Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:05:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hye rocky good to see u still about
just send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
then sign up under your new one sweetas prot a noblem
happy noo yeahs
—– Original Message Follows —–
patrick thank you and will come back on alternative
account ,would like to  unsubscribe under this email
adress
———————————
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!
Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:03:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy
Pants.
From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am talking
Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they do in some
way cause nerve and/or brain damage.
Luff lite n Lafta
to all
Happy noo yeahsss
I have showered for the last time this year.
yahoo.
Kirk xxx
—– Original Message Follows —–
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot
conclude from such a  study that opiates CAUSE brain
damage, rather it is evidence that such  drug use is
ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference
between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain
damage. Let’s say  for some reason, cocaine users like to
wear baggie pants. If you did a  study like this one, then
you would find that wearing baggy pants is  associated
with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants
themselves  do not cause the brain damage, they are just
correlated with something  that does, i.e. the cocaine
use. In this study you posted, there is no  way to tell if
the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be
correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor
nutrition or  lack of sleep or something.
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first
because it studied  twice as many drug users as it did
non-users. But more importantly, this  sample of people
died very young and therefore do not represent the
general population. Even if you did find that opiates
cause brain damage  in this specific population, that
doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a
great deal  more research would have to be done. The only
thing this study provides  is a reason to pursue further
such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than
good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though
addiction results  from a number of factors. One of these
factors is changes in brain  chemistry resulting from long
term consumption of certain drugs, but  “changes in the
brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage.
Damage of nerve  cell receptor sites that are scarred by
physical form of opioid type  molecules . Modern
Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so  they
can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy
to start  believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve
system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on
opiates. Saliva glend  >>> is just one of organs that do
not function properly when on opiates  >>> for most
people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes
teeth root from within. >>
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:58:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..<
I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on methadone, from all the way up to a 100 millgrams where I stayed a very short time (a month or two) down to the 40 I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day, I was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining that 40 miolgrams was “too much,” except that considering I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin, I suppose any methadone is “too much” in that particular context and viewpoint.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Case Study Research
Date: December 30, 2005 at 8:43:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:54:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: shakti@photon.ne
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It goes through, that means you are still subscribed.
Mailing lists that try to conform to RFC’s mark the email as
“precendence: bulk” some spam systems will then take the email and put
it into the bulk or spam folder, yahoo does this a lot, hotmail,etc.
If nothing is replying to you, it is but you’re not seeing it. You need
to go to bulk or spam, click on one message and mark it as not spam, or
from: ibogaine@mindvox.com is not spam.
.:vector:.
— brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to
unsubscribe
but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.
Thanks,
brenda
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__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 30, 2005 at 2:18:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot conclude from such a study that opiates CAUSE brain damage, rather it is evidence that such drug use is ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference between those two things.
For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain damage. Let’s say for some reason, cocaine users like to wear baggie pants. If you did a study like this one, then you would find that wearing baggy pants is associated with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants themselves do not cause the brain damage, they are just correlated with something that does, i.e. the cocaine use. In this study you posted, there is no way to tell if the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor nutrition or lack of sleep or something.
And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first because it studied twice as many drug users as it did non-users. But more importantly, this sample of people died very young and therefore do not represent the general population. Even if you did find that opiates cause brain damage in this specific population, that doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.
In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a great deal more research would have to be done. The only thing this study provides is a reason to pursue further such research.
Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than good research.
As far as addiction in general, it seems as though addiction results from a number of factors. One of these factors is changes in brain chemistry resulting from long term consumption of certain drugs, but “changes in the brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage. Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy to start believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please unsubscribe
Date: December 31, 2005 at 1:11:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subscribe to the ibogaine list: send email (with any subject) to:
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com
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ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com> wrote:
patrick thank you and will come back on alternative account ,would like to  unsubscribe under this email adress
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:49:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 9:15:31 PM Central Standard Time, SuperBee@Tstar.net writes:
yES, ASKING rON TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT IS ONLY MY ALTER-EGO SPEAKING. sORRY
you are a bit of a smart ass, aren’t you? and totally inappropriate right now. you sometimes appear very intelligent although always ‘a little out in left field’ but these reactions to Ron are totally inappropriate. IMO of course. lol!
it takes all kinds of folk to make this life interesting…..i just really wonder why you can’t make room for ron!
no need to apologize.
callie
From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] please unsubscribe
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:12:07 PM EST
To: list <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
patrick thank you and will come back on alternative account ,would like to  unsubscribe under this email adress
Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:40:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:
how can koko be responsible for
feeling like hell after a session?
I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.
Nothing is 100 %.
Are you unhappy on Methadone?
When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?
Callie
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:36:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Follow the unsubscribe instructions from the acct you want to
cancel:
 http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:09:44 -0800 Mark Corcoran
<mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the
list on this email address?
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From: _BiscuitBoy714@aol.com_
Reply-To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_
Subject: _Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study_
Date: _Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST_
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two
years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to
quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the
study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK
I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 11:50:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.
The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.
I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study.  I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.
This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine.  A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be  exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).
Much Appreciated!
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:28:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subscribe to the ibogaine list: send email (with any subject) to:
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com
To get OFF this list:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
If you want a general list of options and features, send mail to:
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To subscribe to the list in digest format, send mail to:
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Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 10:18:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Now, I’m not developed, ahh.Cuckoo for cocoa puffs, gimme a hug, Ron!
brenda brewer wrote:
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 10:14:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
yES, ASKING rON TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT IS ONLY MY ALTER-EGO SPEAKING. sORRY..
CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
> by being honest and mature with us.
Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!
Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.
I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 9:51:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Amen.
On 12/30/05 6:17 PM, “BiscuitBoy714@aol.com” <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:
Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I
did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2
months.
I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky
enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about
2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat
Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per
kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are
taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says,
“at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.”  So your on bupe again,
‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own
shots in the end.      Randy
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 9:17:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2 months. I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about 2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says, “at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.”  So your on bupe again, ‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own shots in the end.      Randy
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:00:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Puts hand up “
I didn’t write that! Lol
Kirk :oP
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
> by being honest and mature with us.
Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!
Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.
I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Test
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:02:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
test
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:42:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
Sure.  Perhaps,
It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to
give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.
Keep hangin’ in Koko.
brenda
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:28:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
man, i’m way off.
If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters
again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.
To answer your question, age could be a factor, not to mention what
you were detoxing from. I suspect that careful attention to diet
and hydration could make a difference. In particular I would
suggest having ample food up to maybe 4 hours before and ample
fluids up to 1 hour before, plus beginning eating and drinking as
soon as convenient after, working up to a full meal as soon as
possible – don’t forget, keep nibbling fruit at least.
I’ll propose a rule of thumb for the ideal minimum recovery time
before going back to a normal routine (like work): at least one day
off for each mg/kg taken, starting from the first full meal eaten.
Even more ideal would be to double this and include therapy twice a
day.
The more times one has taken ibogaine, the faster the recovery
tends to be, so a first experience may not be predictive.
On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:19:58 -0800 koko <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email
to the
forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party.  man, i’m
way off. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.
pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL
CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES
BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE
WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT
ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.
NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER
AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN
AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA
START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE
IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE
BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN
ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST
PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE
WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal
“poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether
ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU)
have to
do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts
with
beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes
personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind.
Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext.
Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as
hell.
Nick
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:09:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
Download today’s top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:55:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Send a blank email to:
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:10 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST

In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol


Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now!
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:29:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I see your email…
brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:
I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to unsubscribe
but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.
Thanks,
brenda
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Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:13:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to unsubscribe
but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.
Thanks,
brenda
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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown – TO RON
Date: December 30, 2005 at 5:22:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron,
Everyone is different.  And everybody’s got an opinion and you know what
they say about opinions…
So if someone is criticizing you – you can choose not to listen.  Do they
know you?  And if they really wanted to help would it be through criticism –
or would it be upliftment?
I bet you’ve gone through enough self-criticism to now add someone else’s
into the mix.
As far as your failing,  you’re still alive so you know you can pick
yourself up gently and know you can still get there from here.
Take care,
brenda
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:09:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “illya braun” <illyabraun@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:00:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
anyone know of any treatment available in vancouver, canada? i’ve seen a site for ibohouse but am unaible to get into communication with them. how do i find ibo in vancouver? anyone???
illya
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:39:28 +0000
and in Iran as well.
US$1100.- 1 Day hospital + 6-8 hours anaesthesia + a lunch ox of pain killers & sedatives.
newspapers are full fo advertisements,
>From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:48:39 +0000
>
>
>Just add a few words on Moscow:
>Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins
>metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to
>get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was
>a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and
>they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were
>treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art
>University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.
>Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of
>rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several
>unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in
>Izrael.
>
>>From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700
>>
>>I was able to watch the video. It described that same procedure
>>that Logan
>>did to some degree. It mentioned that the process of injecting the
>>opiate
>>blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed
>>a
>>respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood
>>pressure.
>>It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
>>
>>—–Original Message—–
>>From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>
>>Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
>>involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
>>addict who has done it voluntarily?
>>
>>Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
>>and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
>>
>>
>>On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
>><loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Yes,
>> >Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
>> >nineties
>> >on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
>> >that patients
>> >needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
>> >was in two
>> >steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
>> >substance
>> >that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
>> >forever.
>> >It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
>> >2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose
>>of
>>
>> >street
>> >pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
>> >several
>> >seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
>> >effect.
>> >This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
>> >was wery
>> >high.
>> >Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
>> >stooped his
>> >operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
>> >again.
>> >Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
>> >Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
>> >and havent
>> >touched anything since.
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
>> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>> >>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>> >>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
>> >>
>> >>has anyone ever heard of this?
>> >>
>> >>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
>> >>
>> >>-ekki
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>/]=—————————————————————
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>> >>
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>> >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>>
>>
>>Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no
>>account
>>required
>>http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480
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>>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
>http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 2:19:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email to the forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party.  man, i’m way off. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 1:19:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the koko thing is a sad joke that usually brings a smile from those that don’t see me and self pity run rampant.  i’m no klown, hate ’em.  need to get well.  as i stated in reply to Nick…how can koko be responsible for feeling like hell after a session?  admittedly lost and the list gets nothing but kudos.  rage, yeah, i’d like to be straight and can’t seem to get there. no kidding, sorry for comming across like arse hole to you guys who help many… i’ll nix the commentary for the new year.  ron
—– Original Message —– From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our
healing.  We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,
love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there
when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when
he does decide that he is actually a decent human being
deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to
the Klown.
Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????
—– Original Message Follows —–
Ron-
   Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the
clown crap. How  old are you, anyways? Why are you so
intent on carrying this behemoth  baggage past treatment?
Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to  justify just
being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you
are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have
moxy and are  sharp when not retreating into your state of
“Oh, God, I’m pathetic,  signed Koko”. For who can take a
clown seriously?
1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over
2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no
Unicorns here, or  Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins.
Nothing under the bed, see? 3, I don’t care if you vent,
or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just  be adult about
it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the
point of discussing something. 4, We care about you, with
all your faults, problems, trials and  tribulations.
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
by being honest and mature with us.
Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole.
It doesn’t fit.
Don
Ron Davis wrote:
>   HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER
> SOON.  pROBLEM,  BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M
> DOING BUP FOR PAIN  MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE
> CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE  LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
> PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY  SESSION I
> WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS
INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS
> TREATED  LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,
> WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD  10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO
> PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT  FUNCTION. GUYS AT
> WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.   IT
BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF
> THIS  LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM,
> MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING  ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF
> ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO  WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN
> INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO  DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT
> MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY
> INSIGHT INTO THIS  MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY
> THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE  NICE, NOT A PITIFUL
> KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW  YEAR.  AS
> I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/
THE  SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE
> SO I’LL THANK THE  LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.
>  ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN  THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND
> MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY  CONFUSING.  NO
> LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX(
I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE
> ONLY ONES  W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS.
> FROM ME WHICH IS COST  PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS
> WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL  THOSE WERE MET
> ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO
COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF
> HELL.  THANKS  AGAIN TO ALL. koko
> —– Original Message —– From: “Kirk”
> <captkirk@clear.net.nz> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
>
>
>> The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that
it dries up the >> saliva in the mouth,  which has anti
toof rotting stuff in it (god im so >> medical, I stun
myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  >>
Chewing >> gum is good for people on the done to help
protect the  >> teeth….although im
>> iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything
these days.. >>
>> I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend
takeaways.  Once a  >> week!!
>> Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not
be on it for  >> long..
>> and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went
back on.  My >> counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand
out Tents and sleeping  >> bags to
>> people in more remote areas who were without aid to
date. Just to  >> give an
>> idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to
come see me  >> during
>> the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern
style stuff, >> meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at
clinic is into alternative >> therapies.. (thnk I’ve said
all this shit before?? Lol old age is a  >> bitch!!)
>> Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the
methadone clinics  >> around the
>> world.
>> Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..it  >> shouldn’t be a
>> normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know
what else they  >> put in
>> yours. Ours is pingable.
>>
>> Ok late for work already
>> Eek
>> Kirk xxx
>> See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown( Nick . thanks)
Date: December 30, 2005 at 1:10:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
is it poor me or is that a carry over from when I’m consciously on self pity trip that turns everyone off?  can’t quite figure out how feeling like shite ties into that. open to suggestions. thanks , ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 12:03:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown
  HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM,
BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN
MANAGEMENT…….
CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF
BUP 2 WEEKS
DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A
SEASONED VET  WE
ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.
PROBLEM,  WHEN
IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i
COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY
CATCH WHAT I
HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS
LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING
ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO
WITHDRAWALS
OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I
COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN
PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN
AND STILL AM.
MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER
SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY
COMMENTS TO
THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START
SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING
DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT
WHICH IS
VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT
TO DETOX( I
UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY
ONES W/ KAUNAS
BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A
REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE
MET ON THE
LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN
FRIED PHRASE
FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
Ron,
It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”
trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or
whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.
YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning
to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal
responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.
Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them
and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s
just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.
Nick
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From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 30, 2005 at 3:44:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage. Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy to start believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve system:
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 11:08:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
> by being honest and mature with us.
Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!
Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.
I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 8:09:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol
Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious.  Good luck  Randy
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:57:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lorena, please forgive me if I am repeating any responces here (I haven’t read the whole list yet) but looking for people with two years or more might be kinda hard to do. I’ve been “clean” for 15 months. A lot of people quit posting after a while. I’n sure some of them are still reading but after a while it seems that some of us get wore out talking about Ibogaine every day for two years. Maybe some of the old timers will come outta the woodwork. Dave Hunter where are you? I still love ya man.        Randy
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:56:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/30/05 3:25:37 AM, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:
Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our
healing.  We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,
love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there
when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when
he does decide that he is actually a decent human being
deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to
the Klown.
Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
so I can hug him and squeeze him and hold him.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
so he can take away my frown, that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
give me that clown.
that wonderful beautiful powerful lovable clown.
Howard
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 29, 2005 at 6:39:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
and in Iran as well.
US$1100.- 1 Day hospital + 6-8 hours anaesthesia + a lunch ox of pain killers & sedatives.
newspapers are full fo advertisements,
From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:48:39 +0000
Just add a few words on Moscow:
Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.
Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in Izrael.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700
I was able to watch the video.  It described that same procedure that Logan
did to some degree.  It mentioned that the process of injecting the opiate
blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed a
respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood pressure.
It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes,
>Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
>nineties
>on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
>that patients
>needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
>was in two
>steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
>substance
>that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
>forever.
>It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
>2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
>street
>pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
>several
>seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
>effect.
>This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
>was wery
>high.
>Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
>stooped his
>operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
>again.
>Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
>Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
>and havent
>touched anything since.
>
>
>>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
>>
>>has anyone ever heard of this?
>>
>>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
>>
>>-ekki
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 30, 2005 at 3:23:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our
healing.  We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,
love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there
when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when
he does decide that he is actually a decent human being
deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to
the Klown.
Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????
—– Original Message Follows —–
Ron-
   Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the
clown crap. How  old are you, anyways? Why are you so
intent on carrying this behemoth  baggage past treatment?
Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to  justify just
being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you
are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have
moxy and are  sharp when not retreating into your state of
“Oh, God, I’m pathetic,  signed Koko”. For who can take a
clown seriously?
1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over
2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no
Unicorns here, or  Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins.
Nothing under the bed, see? 3, I don’t care if you vent,
or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just  be adult about
it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the
point of discussing something. 4, We care about you, with
all your faults, problems, trials and  tribulations.
Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group
by being honest and mature with us.
Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole.
It doesn’t fit.
Don
Ron Davis wrote:
 HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER
SOON.  pROBLEM,  BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M
DOING BUP FOR PAIN  MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE
CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE  LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND
PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY  SESSION I
WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS
INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS
TREATED  LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,
WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD  10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO
PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT  FUNCTION. GUYS AT
WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.   IT
BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF
THIS  LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM,
MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING  ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF
ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO  WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN
INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO  DEPLETED
AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT
MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY
INSIGHT INTO THIS  MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY
THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE  NICE, NOT A PITIFUL
KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW  YEAR.  AS
I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/
THE  SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE
SO I’LL THANK THE  LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.
‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN  THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND
MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY  CONFUSING.  NO
LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX(
I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE
ONLY ONES  W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS.
FROM ME WHICH IS COST  PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS
WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL  THOSE WERE MET
ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO
COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF
HELL.  THANKS  AGAIN TO ALL. koko
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk”
<captkirk@clear.net.nz> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that
it dries up the >> saliva in the mouth,  which has anti
toof rotting stuff in it (god im so >> medical, I stun
myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  >>
Chewing >> gum is good for people on the done to help
protect the  >> teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything
these days.. >>
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend
takeaways.  Once a  >> week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not
be on it for  >> long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went
back on.  My >> counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand
out Tents and sleeping  >> bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to
date. Just to  >> give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to
come see me  >> during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern
style stuff, >> meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at
clinic is into alternative >> therapies.. (thnk I’ve said
all this shit before?? Lol old age is a  >> bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the
methadone clinics  >> around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a
dose…..it  >> shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know
what else they  >> put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 29, 2005 at 9:50:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Logan Palis wrote:
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 29, 2005 at 7:57:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanks Mark!  🙂  Say Hi to Marty and Joe and all the gang.  I appreciate the offer, and who knows may be in another 14 months I could interview you. The dress wearing hippie has helped immensely, as always with his stories and wise words.
Much love
~L~
Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol. Lori, maybe Matry and Joe would be close in this neck of the woods. I can think of a few people out by you but our friend who wears the dress should know almost all of those same people now. No, not you Preston. :o)
If your willing to wait 14 months I’d be happy to help you in anyway I can. -M.
From:  lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:21:48 -0500 (EST)
Dear List,
I posted a couple days ago, and I have gotten very few responses so here’s one more attempt.  I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.   The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the
case study.
Deeply Appreciative
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 28, 2005 at 6:33:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:46:08 +1300
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] to mark
Date: December 29, 2005 at 4:25:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I tryed to call on you but the # was not working i have the same # if you would like to call and it would be good to hear from you , things are good here.   rocky
Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
RANDY FROM S.D. OR ROCKY FROM S.F. I’D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
From:  Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:04:13 -0500
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor
http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From:
CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
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Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 29, 2005 at 7:49:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ron-
  Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the clown crap. How old are you, anyways? Why are you so intent on carrying this behemoth baggage past treatment? Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to justify just being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have moxy and are sharp when not retreating into your state of “Oh, God, I’m pathetic, signed Koko”. For who can take a clown seriously?
1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over
2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no Unicorns here, or Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins. Nothing under the bed, see?
3, I don’t care if you vent, or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just be adult about it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the point of discussing something.
4, We care about you, with all your faults, problems, trials and tribulations. Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group by being honest and mature with us.
Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole. It doesn’t fit.
Don
Ron Davis wrote:
 HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM, BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,  WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX( I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY ONES W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE MET ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 29, 2005 at 6:08:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol. Lori, maybe Matry and Joe would be close in this neck of the woods. I can think of a few people out by you but our friend who wears the dress should know almost all of those same people now. No, not you Preston. :o)
If your willing to wait 14 months I’d be happy to help you in anyway I can. -M.
From:  lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 14:21:48 -0500 (EST)
Dear List,
I posted a couple days ago, and I have gotten very few responses so here’s one more attempt.  I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.   The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the
case study.
Deeply Appreciative
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
Find just what you’re after with the new, more precise MSN Search – try it now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP  from dumb arse klown
Date: December 29, 2005 at 11:31:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.  pROBLEM, BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE  AND PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.  WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS.  MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET  WE ALL KNOW.  I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,  WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK.  i COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD.  IT BEAT MY ASS.  JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.  NO WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY.  ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP  DURING THE NEW YEAR.  AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron  GOTTA START SOMEWHERE SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’  THE PLUG ON ME.  ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.  AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY CONFUSING.  NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK  OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX( I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY ONES W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.  ALL THOSE WERE MET ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL.  THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study
Date: December 29, 2005 at 2:21:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
I posted a couple days ago, and I have gotten very few responses so here’s one more attempt.  I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.   The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the case study.
Deeply Appreciative
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 28, 2005 at 6:42:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I sweat like a pig whether I was on 30 or 110 mgs. Winter or summer. That was my expereince.
Also, I’m 28 years old and although I still have pretty good teeth (straight anyway) I have been told that I have 12 cavities and have had two root canals since I got clean and I’m going for another one next week. Guess I should have chewed more gum.
From:  Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  [Ibogaine] methadone
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 09:46:08 +1300
>The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
>saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
>medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  Chewing
>gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
>iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
>
>I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
>Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
>and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
>counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
>people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
>idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
>the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
>meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
>therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
>Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
>world.
>Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
>normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
>yours. Ours is pingable.
>
>Ok late for work already
>Eek
>Kirk xxx
>See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
>
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 28, 2005 at 3:46:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
LOL
Madness Is The Answer ;o)
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2005 3:07 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
My version: “Madness is not enlightenment, but neither is
enlightenment, for that matter. Wait a minute – what was the
question?”
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:10:41 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has
to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I
automatically label
it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.<
First of all Matthew, thanks for posting this note describing your
latest
experience- very poignent and clear, succinct and eloquent, and by
me much
appreciated.
  I can so relate to the above sentence. I just had to post a
pithy note
saying that- that I’ve so many times put myself right back where
I’ve
already been, that I need to ask, or figure out with someone else
listening
impartially, how I go about learning to feel my emotions and other
feelings
both mental and physical without automatically going back to tried
to true
methods that seem to lead down the same freaking cull-de-sack
every time,
even if the route looks different at various times it’s always the
same
dead-freakin’ end apparently.
  BTW, that’s in large part why I’ve not changed my sig-line
quote for so
long, about the search for enlightenment etc. Because I feel like
that
exactly, all the time.
  Grrrr.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone
Date: December 28, 2005 at 3:46:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the
saliva in the mouth,  which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so
medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.  Chewing
gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im
iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..
I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways.  Once a week!!
Ooooo luxury!! Lol.  I was determined this time to not be on it for long..
and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.  My
counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to
people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an
idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during
the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,
meditation , Buddhism etc.  new doctor at clinic is into alternative
therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)
Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the
world.
Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a
normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in
yours. Ours is pingable.
Ok late for work already
Eek
Kirk xxx
See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)
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From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 28, 2005 at 2:48:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Just add a few words on Moscow:
Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.
Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in Izrael.
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700
I was able to watch the video.  It described that same procedure that Logan
did to some degree.  It mentioned that the process of injecting the opiate
blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed a
respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood pressure.
It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes,
>Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
>nineties
>on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
>that patients
>needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
>was in two
>steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
>substance
>that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
>forever.
>It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
>2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
>street
>pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
>several
>seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
>effect.
>This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
>was wery
>high.
>Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
>stooped his
>operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
>again.
>Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
>Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
>and havent
>touched anything since.
>
>
>>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
>>
>>has anyone ever heard of this?
>>
>>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
>>
>>-ekki
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 28, 2005 at 12:42:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
RANDY FROM S.D. OR ROCKY FROM S.F. I’D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU.
From:  Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:04:13 -0500
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor
http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From:
CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 10:01:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/27/2005 8:51:32 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest
I KNOW it was/is in my good interest. There is no doubt in my mind that I would be in prison for habitual drug offenses or dead if I had not broke down and got on Methadone.
Oh yes, at times I feel like I might have made a mistake but then I think about the last words my lawyer said to me as we left court one day. I had been busted forging prescriptions, AGAIN, and sentenced to 11 months 29 days with all suspended after 90 days. He told me, “You are a very lucky woman. God must have plans for you. You should be kneeling at the cross. If you get even as much as a pot possession you will be going to prison for a while and there will be nothing I or anyone else can do.”
Thankfully I have never seen him since!! I did my days in jail and got out and got fucked up again but then I went to Methadone Clinic. My life has steadily improved to the point that I appear normal! My relationship with my sons is great and I do not break the law anymore!!
METHADONE SAVED MY ASS AND PROBABLY MY LIFE plain and simple!
Callie
From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Studies
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:25:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear List,
I am an independent researcher conducting a case study project on ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment.  The focus is on interviewing individuals who have completed a one-time administration of Ibogaine and have abstained from their drug of choice for a period of at least two years.  I am looking for individuals who sought treatment for opiate dependency, but would also like to hear from people who have remained abstinent from other substances.
Please contact me at loriibo@yahoo.ca if you would like further information or would possibly be interested in being interviewed for the case study.
Warmest Regards
Lorena
Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:25:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
word. jeff me and you are coming from a very similar place. I left you a message call me back.-m.
From:  Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:04:13 -0500
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor
http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From:
CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:16:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you for this.  Very sound advice it seems to me right now.  But as you
can see I have not exactly stayed away from the net, at least not this
corner of it…
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:26 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Matt, I’m glad it turned out well for you.
You actually have some time while the path is still fresh to use
your own power to continue exploring and cleaning up. It is hard to
fathom after the hyperdrive of ibogaine that the main insight may
happen days later, in relative quiet. What you think you know from
the iboga can be part of your remaining defenses to keep you from
the work. Watch out for conclusions of any kind! Learn to recognise
your mind turning off when one has been reached.
If you want another suggestion, I would stay away from the net as
much as possible for the next two weeks and concentrate on yourself
and people who are close to you. Don’t worry too much about future
plans, there will be time for that – now you are in the garden, and
as you saw, it may take a lifetime to fully arrive again on your
own.
But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me,
ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like
I’m
on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of
it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that situation.
This is why I think that .01 to 8.0 mg/kg can do more than 15-25
when addiction isn’t part of the picture. It’s odd how things that
are blown up can come back, but things that you dismantle board by
board don’t reassemble very easily 🙂
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:14:12 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:13:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I was able to watch the video.  It described that same procedure that Logan
did to some degree.  It mentioned that the process of injecting the opiate
blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed a
respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood pressure.
It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.
—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes,
Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
nineties
on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
that patients
needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
was in two
steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
substance
that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
forever.
It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
street
pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
several
seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
effect.
This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
was wery
high.
Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
stooped his
operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
again.
Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
and havent
touched anything since.
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:20:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt,
  Reading your posts i was interested to see how your journey went.
I was supprised to see how strong you were in your decision to have
nothing to do with ibogaine again.
  There came a point in my journey that I said to myself that I
wouldn’t take ibogaine for a long time again.  For me I think I had
arrived so close to some very terrifying taumas at the source of my
problems.  I don’t know if it the same for you but for me I think I
wanted to run from facing these issues.  Life actually became much
harder since then even though on the outside I changed.  My alcohol
consumption droped to about 5 or 10% of what it was.  I stayed away
from ibogaine for a while but managed to make some healing progress
with lower doses.
     EVen if you don’t try ibogaine again try to find an emotional
release therapy to help continue gaining insights.  I backed off for a
good while after in what might have been a defensive reaction and I
think I could have made more progress had I a therapist at the time.
At firstI was more zealous about doing the sessions.  I think when I
approach the most difficult issues I want to avoid it because I am
somewhat aware of the horrendeous things inside causing my depressing.
I think only time will tell, I found issues that I just can’t enjoy
my life to the full if I’m living around them but maybe you have
reached a point were you will enjoy your life more fully without need
to go to that depth again.  I hope you find your way.
Luke
On 12/27/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Randy
I had heard about those titles but I had never heard what they were about
before.  I’m down with the cognitive dissonance thing.  In fact it has
already begun with the whole crying/sadness thing.  Every time I get a sad
feeling, I start reminding myself that it’s ok, and I try to let it go, and
it’s uncomfortable and weird but I’m working on it.  I’ll get it on that
issue.  I’m determined.  My goal is cry like a sissy in front of everyone I
know as soon as possible.  As far as all of the other millions of automatic
responses I noticed, well I can only imagine that my whole life from here on
will be necessary to get all that work done, but I’m determined to try.  I
have this overwhelming determination and purpose; I remember having this the
last time I did ibogaine too.  It is very empowering.  I actually remember
that last time I had so much empowerment and determination that I could for
the first time in my life, simply choose NOT to take a drug.  That is
probably where some of the talk of reset comes from.  One of the defining
characteristics of the addict is that they don’t have the ability to simply
choose not to use, somewhere along the line they pass the point where they
get to choose anymore and then they must.  But ibogaine actually returned
the power to make that choice for me last time.
Matt
________________________________
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
matt@itsupport.net writes:
saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1
Matt, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are a couple of
books written about this very subject you have described here. One of them
is RBT therapy (Rational Behavior Therapy) written by Maxie Maultsby and the
other one is RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) written by Albert Ellis. The
premise of both books being that for the mind to come up with an emotion it
must first have thoughts about what you are experiencing. It only works for
those of us able to tell the difference between objective reality and
subjective reality. It goes like this. Objective reality is those things we
can see, i.e., take a picture of, smell, hear, feel as pain or pleasure, and
so forth. You cannot change objective reality because it just is. Subjective
reality being just our opinion of what we see excetra. First you experience
something objective like you see a guy running down the road with jeans on
and street shoes. You can take a picture or a movie of that. That’s
objective. Then you have thoughts about what you see. Then you have the
emotion. Lets say when you see the guy running you think that he must be
running from somebody and it scares you. What if your first thought was
“look at that guy, he has no running clothes but he still wants to work
out?” your feelings would be more mild, say, you might feel sorry for the
guy because he has no running suit, or it might make you think it was funny.
You can’t change objective reality, but you can change what you think about
it. It looks good on paper, but it is hard to implement. It is work, but you
can change your thoughts about things. Especially preconceived things that
bother you. For a while you have to force yourself to think differently
about them and this period is called cognitive dissonance. Then after a
while it becomes thought shorthand and you don’t have to force yourself to
think differently, it just happens. Of course this doesn’t work for crazy
mother fuckers like me. I can’t ascertain the difference between objective
and subjective reality. Do I have cob webs on my face?       Randy
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:06:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
My version: “Madness is not enlightenment, but neither is
enlightenment, for that matter. Wait a minute – what was the
question?”
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:10:41 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has
to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I
automatically label
it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.<
First of all Matthew, thanks for posting this note describing your
latest
experience- very poignent and clear, succinct and eloquent, and by
me much
appreciated.
  I can so relate to the above sentence. I just had to post a
pithy note
saying that- that I’ve so many times put myself right back where
I’ve
already been, that I need to ask, or figure out with someone else
listening
impartially, how I go about learning to feel my emotions and other
feelings
both mental and physical without automatically going back to tried
to true
methods that seem to lead down the same freaking cull-de-sack
every time,
even if the route looks different at various times it’s always the
same
dead-freakin’ end apparently.
  BTW, that’s in large part why I’ve not changed my sig-line
quote for so
long, about the search for enlightenment etc. Because I feel like
that
exactly, all the time.
  Grrrr.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:53:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method
involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware
addict who has done it voluntarily?
Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,
and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.
On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis
<loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yes,
Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early
nineties
on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was
that patients
needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment
was in two
steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a
substance
that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not
forever.
It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of
street
pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a
several
seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin
effect.
This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate
was wery
high.
Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin
stooped his
operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him
again.
Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction
and havent
touched anything since.
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 7:45:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ehehe… while i strongly believe that methadone is a useful and even life-saving medication for many people, i don’t think emulating burroughs’s lifestyle would necessarily be in anyone’s best interest….eheh =)
ekki wrote:
btw Burroughs was on methadon the last 17years of his life, used to have vodka, cigars and weed with it and nevertheless wrote another half dozen books and made countless paintings (shooting art) and other projects and collaborations. he called it GOM – gods own medicine. he seemed not too unhappy before he died at age of 83 judging from his last journals, after being nearly 50yrs hooked. he said that through opiates he found his “vacation i mean vocation”.
curious , no?
-ekki
Am 27.12.2005 um 19:16 schrieb Preston Peet:
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
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From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:25:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes,
Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early nineties on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was that patients needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment was in two steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a substance that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not forever. It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.
2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose of street pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a several seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin effect. This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate was wery high.
Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin stooped his operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him again. Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.
Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction and havent touched anything since.
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 7:10:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
btw Burroughs was on methadon the last 17years of his life, used to have vodka, cigars and weed with it and nevertheless wrote another half dozen books and made countless paintings (shooting art) and other projects and collaborations. he called it GOM – gods own medicine. he seemed not too unhappy before he died at age of 83 judging from his last journals, after being nearly 50yrs hooked. he said that through opiates he found his “vacation i mean vocation”.
curious , no?
-ekki
Am 27.12.2005 um 19:16 schrieb Preston Peet:
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] done/ fear of pain
Date: December 27, 2005 at 3:30:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
u crazy woman….u know exactly what to do!!!!!
whats left of my love :}
matt
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] done/ fear of pain
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 08:08:56 +1300
It’s worked really well for me this time….I have no idea what dose im even on now but apparently it’s low, who knows ,  we’ve been tapering it for the past couple of months, even though I know I didn’t need to……I feel great, and I don’t know why or how, but I do.  Weirdo huh lol.
Yeh I can understand that fear with all the effort required to stay clean I have no idea what I’d do either…..
Have to hurry up and master the power of the mind a Matt?
Lol
K
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2005 2:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Kirk
I just read your other post to Preston and you are right about one thing, it probably actually is a good solution for some people.  I seriously doubt that ibogaine is the right answer for everyone, so I have to suspect that methadone isn’t the wrong answer for everyone either.  But speaking for myself, I am NEVER going back to the life I was settling for in those days… Incidentally, chronic pain, or even prolonged, temporary, sever pain has been one of my worst fears since I got clean.  I don’t live in fear of that happening, but if I think about it, it seems terribly scary because I fear what my response would be if I were to actually have to take opiates into my body again.  Bad things man…
Matt
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 7:04:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yah Mon! I despise the evil red juice BUT it can be a very useful tool in making your life a better more livable existence.
Especially if your money is gone ….
Freak Free
Jeff
On 12/27/05, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good
>interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to
say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in
the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.
It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and
it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and
vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and
exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 6:24:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m really glad you posted what you did. I was beginning to think what I was feeling was not normal or in some way disrespectful by feeling very similarly to the way you do right now. I totally hear where your coming from. My last Ibogaine session was about 10 months ago and when I came to until now I felt so differently about Ibogaine and about the “movement” than I did the first time. I told someone a few days ago that I am still trying to get over my last one and unless I went back to getting high (which contrary to what people might think, I doubt is very likely) I don’t think I could ever go through that again in this lifetime. It was like for almost 6 months I was having almost what I would consider to be a from of PTSD if that makes any sense. And its still hasnt gone away completely. Thats not at all to say that I don’t want anything more to do with Ibogaine, I truly believe I owe my life to it. Some of my best friends are now “Ibogaine People” and I’m so grateful to have each and everyone of them in my life but consuming myself with the movement, the experience, or even this list is counterproductive to what I took Ibogaine for in the first place. And that’s purely a personal thing and not to often anyone on this list. Anyway, from time to time I pull up the list to see how everyone is doing and what not. May I suggest you put the list in its own folder or even mark it junkmail and just check in now and then. It would be a shame to lose someone completely who really has contributed so much to the list.
Whatever you decide to do I wish you the very best. Thanks  -M.
From:  “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
CC:  <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date:  Tue, 27 Dec 2005 13:14:29 -0500
>As Callie wrote, I’m sorry to see you decide to unsubscribe, but do
>what you must I suppose.
>    But I hadn’t gotten that far before sending off the last note,
>so want to say later gator.
>    Best of luck with your decisions for change, and I hope you make
>it to whereever it is you want to be as smoothly, as best, with the
>least stress, as possible.
>
>Peace and love,
>Preston
>
>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
>often mistaken for madness”
>Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
>Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient
>Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
>Editor http://www.drugwar.com
>Cont. High Times mag/.com
>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
>Columnist New York Waste
>Etc.
>
>—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
>Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
>
>
>So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have
>done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it,
>my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better,
>and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was
>substantially shortened. I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night,
>about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky
>and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of
>the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with
>me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just
>more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was
>on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I
>was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at
>this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
>felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
>terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in
>front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the
>point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the
>capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it. I agonized over it for a
>couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell
>asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams
>but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
>
>So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff
>(similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
>thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this
>morning, about 12 hours ago now.
>
>Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
>very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
>actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear
>keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I
>benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the
>source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was
>packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every
>aspect of my thoughts.
>
>Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is
>like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you
>know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan,
>that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well
>imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.
>But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of
>this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without
>hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling.
>That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
>the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.
>  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that
>literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
>
>So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
>about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions
>so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a
>feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I
>stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would
>start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a
>loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone. Just
>gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also
>noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I
>noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear
>early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was
>also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.
>My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad
>feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for
>ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.
>I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
>
>I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
>saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
>decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it
>is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something
>to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely
>graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to
>it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a
>child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these
>automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
>adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did
>when I was like 1.
>
>So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
>just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
>decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from
>this list as well. I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish
>that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug
>addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to
>do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably
>the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse
>and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was
>on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it
>like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff,
>but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper
>use of it. But when I was on methadone it was like there was a
>freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke
>was the right tool for that situation.
>
>Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I
>noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
>noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like
>the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as
>last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought
>that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
>
>Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
>week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but
>them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have
>ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I
>actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always
>know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have
>not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish
>lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life.
>Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
>
>I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
>did get. I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to
>solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and
>that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of
>stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.
>I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly
>enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be
>some changes made.
>Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
>Matt
>
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:16:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.<
In today’s world, under prohibition policies, sometimes Matthew, I have to say that I do not agree, that for some people, SOMETIMES, methadone IS in the addict’s good interest.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest. It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
about
my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
this.
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [offcenterevents] Norfolk 4 on Nightline tonight/Darryl Best free at last
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:24:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
HI all,
  Below is excerpted from the rest of the email even further below- I would have just sent this part, but felt the whole email should be sent or I’d be editing unethically…or something like that.
  Light, stresslessness, happiness and joy this holiday season to all of you.
Peace and love,
Preston
DARRYL BEST FREE AT LAST
In 2004, Off Center produced a clemency video on behalf of Darryl Best,
a man who was serving 15 years to life under New York’s Rockefeller
Drug Laws. This past Thursday (12/23/05) Governor George Pataki granted
clemency to Mr. Best. Darryl Best’s clemency petition is the only one
that Pataki granted this year.  Mr. Best, 49, was convicted after
signing for a Federal Express package while at his uncle’s house in the
Bronx, repairing the roof. The package turned out to contain cocaine
and the uniformed Fedex delivery man was an undercover cop.  Darryl’s
wife Wanda, the William Moses Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice and the
Mothers of the Disappeared, along with Peter Greer and Jason Flom, have
struggled tirelessly to make this day a reality. Darryl Best will be
home in mid-January.
To view Off Center’s clemency video, visit the Kunstler Fund website:
http://www.kunstler.org/
—– Original Message —– From: “Sarah Kunstler” <sarah@off-center.com>
To: <offcenterevents@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:04 AM
Subject: [offcenterevents] Norfolk 4 on Nightline tonight/Darryl Best free at last
NIGHTLINE ON THE NORFOLK 4
Nightline (ABC) will be running a story on the Norfolk 4, tonight
(Tuesday, December 27th) at 11:30PM EST. The segment will include
parts of Off Center’s recently completed clemency video on behalf of
the Norfolk 4. See below for more details.
FREE THE NORFOLK 4
We sent you an email several weeks ago about a project that Off Center
recently completed about the Norfolk Four. THE NORFOLK FOUR: A
MISCARRIAGE OF JUSTICE is a 30-minute documentary that was submitted to
Governor Mark Warner of Virginia as part of a clemency petition.
In the 1990s, Danial Williams, Joseph Dick Jr., Derek Tice, and Eric
Wilson joined the Navy with aspirations of serving their country.
Today, three of the four are in prison, serving life sentences for
falsely confessing to a rape/murder that none of them committed,
despite the fact that DNA has identified the real killer.
Governor Warner will decide whether or not to grant clemency before he
leaves office on January 14, 2006. We invite you to learn more about
the Norfolk 4 and to write a letter to Governor Warner on their behalf.
To find out more about how you can get involved visit the Norfolk 4
website: http://www.norfolk4.com/. The site has sample letters, as well
as a link to the Governor’s email.
DARRYL BEST FREE AT LAST
In 2004, Off Center produced a clemency video on behalf of Darryl Best,
a man who was serving 15 years to life under New York’s Rockefeller
Drug Laws. This past Thursday (12/23/05) Governor George Pataki granted
clemency to Mr. Best. Darryl Best’s clemency petition is the only one
that Pataki granted this year.  Mr. Best, 49, was convicted after
signing for a Federal Express package while at his uncle’s house in the
Bronx, repairing the roof. The package turned out to contain cocaine
and the uniformed Fedex delivery man was an undercover cop.  Darryl’s
wife Wanda, the William Moses Kunstler Fund for Racial Justice and the
Mothers of the Disappeared, along with Peter Greer and Jason Flom, have
struggled tirelessly to make this day a reality. Darryl Best will be
home in mid-January.
To view Off Center’s clemency video, visit the Kunstler Fund website:
http://www.kunstler.org/
OFF CENTER MEDIA
Off Center has become a non-profit, and we have changed our name from
Off Center Productions to Off Center Media. Our newly designed website
will be up shortly, and we will send an email to announce the launch.
Happy New Year from Off Center Media and thank you for your continued
support of our work.
Emily Kunstler  Sarah Kunstler
Thank you for supporting Off Center Productions
and for your continuing interest in our efforts.
http://www.off-center.com
To unsubscribe from this list, send an email to:
offcenterevents-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 3:29:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hey buddy!
welcome back !!
i would have to agree with the one that is slow :}
give it time to put the pieces together…dont rush into conclusions/decisions
p.s
i would think about the fear u have of ibo and try to focus on it
it seems like u have  major unresolved issues and taking ibo out of the equation might be a cop out
maybe
just an opinion— from what i observed on my own bloody skin :]
no matter what u decide to do it will be the right decision
love and strenght to u my friend
matt
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 11:26:18 -0800
Matt, I’m glad it turned out well for you.
You actually have some time while the path is still fresh to use
your own power to continue exploring and cleaning up. It is hard to
fathom after the hyperdrive of ibogaine that the main insight may
happen days later, in relative quiet. What you think you know from
the iboga can be part of your remaining defenses to keep you from
the work. Watch out for conclusions of any kind! Learn to recognise
your mind turning off when one has been reached.
If you want another suggestion, I would stay away from the net as
much as possible for the next two weeks and concentrate on yourself
and people who are close to you. Don’t worry too much about future
plans, there will be time for that – now you are in the garden, and
as you saw, it may take a lifetime to fully arrive again on your
own.
> But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me,
>ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug. I sort of imagine it like
I’m
>on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but
>ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of
>it.
>But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
>built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
>for that situation.
This is why I think that .01 to 8.0 mg/kg can do more than 15-25
when addiction isn’t part of the picture. It’s odd how things that
are blown up can come back, but things that you dismantle board by
board don’t reassemble very easily 🙂
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:14:12 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
>So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
>have done
>it. I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
>metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
>my diet
>is way better. So somehow the effect duration was substantially
>shortened.
>I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
>When that
>kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
>made
>arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
>her to
>come home and sit with me. So she did, and I felt WAY safer. But
>the
>intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
>if the
>opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
>that this
>time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before. So I
>was at this
>point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
>felt as if
>any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
>terrified, all of
>creation was literally coming undone right in front of me. But I
>realized
>at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
>experience. So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
>couldn’t do it.
>I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
>couldn’t take
>any more. I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
>don’t recall
>any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
>
>
>
>So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
>stuff (similar
>to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
>thoughts. So I
>decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
>about 12 hours
>ago now.
>
>
>
>Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
>very
>instructive. Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
>actually felt
>sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
>doing what
>I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it. I
>feel like
>I have some great insight into the source of my depression. I
>think
>ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
>emotions and it
>was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
>
>
>
>Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me. Imagine that your mind
>is like a
>train station, a big room with a very high ceiling. Now you know
>that crud
>that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
>dust and
>lint and whatever the hell crap? Well imagine that stuff all
>smeared on all
>of the walls and ceilings. But so much of it that it is really
>thick, like
>meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
>around in there
>without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
>crawling.
>That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
>the unfelt
>emotions. And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it. My head
>feels
>absolutely freaking spacious now! I mean that literally, my head
>feels so
>clean and clear.
>
>
>
>So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
>about, how
>does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
>never has to
>happen again? I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
>label it
>good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it. I saw the whole thing in
>action
>repeatedly. I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
>overflow, I
>would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
>gone.
>Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right. I
>also
>noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
>I noticed
>a very similar thing with the fear. I had a lot of fear early on
>and it was
>making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
>was not
>completely feeling it, I was avoiding it. My girlfriend suggested
>to me
>that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
>awestruck
>by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
>life thought
>of that idea. I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
>it.
>
>
>
>I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
>saw what
>happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
>decides what it
>means. Because before it means anything to me, it is just
>something that
>happens. But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
>wonderful or
>terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels. And
>when that
>happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
>mind that
>I setup as a child. And I saw that too, I saw how I had setup
>all these
>automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
>adult. I’m
>walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
>like 1.
>
>
>
>So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again. That’s
>just not
>what I want on my journey through this life anymore. And I
>decided to
>change my clean date. And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
>as well.
>I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
>believe in
>ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction. But I don’t’ want to
>involve
>myself in anything more to do with it. I have the utmost respect
>for that
>drug. It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
>didn’t
>completely misuse and abuse. But one thing I had lost
>appreciation for
>until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug. I sort
>of imagine
>it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
>stuff, but
>ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
>of it.
>But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
>skyscraper
>built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
>for that
>situation.
>
>
>
>Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
>I noticed
>something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
>noribogaine,
>potentiated the effect of the ibogaine. It seemed like the first
>2 hours of
>this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
>then it
>abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
>interesting
>going on between the two.
>
>
>
>Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone. I’ll hang out for a
>week or so
>and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
>off. I also
>want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
> I don’t
>mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
>other
>people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it. I am very
>struck by how
>much I seemed to have not learned as a child. I feel like these
>painfully
>childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
>whole life.
>Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
>
>
>
>I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
>did get.
>I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
>order to
>be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
>looking
>for. I decided actually quite a lot of stuff. I decided to get a
>ring and
>ask my girlfriend to marry me. I decided that I don’t show my
>friends often
>enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
>There’s
>going to be some changes made.
>
>Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
>
>Matt
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow
Date: December 27, 2005 at 3:40:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
has anyone ever heard of this?
http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm
-ekki
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:41:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
How did the done work for you on a whole? Did you feel better more often? Or
not…<
The main things I remember about being on methadone that I did not like about it (I have trouble believing it’s already been about 5 years, or just shy of that now, since I stopped taking methadone.). These things included the incessent sweating I’d do, which during the Winter was especially irritating, as I’d be sweating buckets whenever I’d go inside from the cold, and all I could think of while I’d be talking to everyone and anyone at this point would be, “what are they thinking about all this sweating I’m doing,” as well as how uncomfortable I was, not only right then while doing the sweating but when I was going to go back outside and have to walk through the cold all wet under my jacket, wetness that was going to nearly freeze due to the severe cold we can sometimes have here.
  I watched as my teeth seemed to crumble- now, I don’t know if this really truely is a result of taking methadone, but I’ve heard the same thing from countless others now, that while they were junkies on the streets their teeth were fine but once getting on the methadone their teeth fell apart and became riddled with cavities. Again, I don’t know how much the methadone had to do with this, but it happened to me as well.
  I Hated even having to go just once a week to the clinic to pick up my week’s supply, because I had to “report in” to someone, an authority figure of some kind or other, occasionally donate a sample of my urine to the clinic, and basically had to accept that someone or someones (plural) had the power to refuse me my medication if they so chose for whatever reason, and were also empowered to force me into medical check ups, piss testing, counseling even when I didn’t feel I needed it.
  But suddenly I’m realizing that that part wasn’t actually a bad thing at all, that I was “forced” to speak with a counselor, as the woman who was my assigned counselor was actually quite nice and seemingly very caring about me and my issues, which I realize I kinda miss.
  But as noted, I hated having to go even that one day a week into the clinic. And another but, I really didn’t like being on the stuff. I talked too much when it would first take affect, making me very speedy and babbly, and I felt kinda off, never quite fully me- but this coulda just been the whole “I’m on methadone and don’t really want to tell everyone I meet that fact due to prejudice and the like on the part of so many people who’d immediately think to themselves, ‘this guy is a junky,’ even though I’m no longer on the streets using illegal drugs but rather living in a home with a key in my pocket taking a prescribed medication” thing rather than a real effect of the methadone itself.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Heh yeh sorry dumb question…….I did the same, got off it… nightmarish
swore I’d never do it again.. but here I am.. again lol. Never say never!
How did the done work for you on a whole? Did you feel better more often? Or
not…
K
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????<
Kirk, if I could tell you what I really wanted, I’d have it already I think.
But due to the fact that I did get off methadone as soon as I felt I was
“ready” I think my body and brain and spirit were telling me something, only
now I’m having trouble with other things that I wasn’t while using
methadone, so I get confused and muddled feeling.
  I’m working on things though, as it’s a never-ending process, this thing
called living I find.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it.
It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they
were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself
wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always
think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed.
Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people
around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:14:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <matt@itsupport.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As Callie wrote, I’m sorry to see you decide to unsubscribe, but do what you must I suppose.
  But I hadn’t gotten that far before sending off the last note, so want to say later gator.
  Best of luck with your decisions for change, and I hope you make it to whereever it is you want to be as smoothly, as best, with the least stress, as possible.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially shortened. I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it. I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff (similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning, about 12 hours ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end, very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling. That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone. Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list as well. I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use of it. But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool for that situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life. Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I did get. I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:10:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.<
First of all Matthew, thanks for posting this note describing your latest experience- very poignent and clear, succinct and eloquent, and by me much appreciated.
  I can so relate to the above sentence. I just had to post a pithy note saying that- that I’ve so many times put myself right back where I’ve already been, that I need to ask, or figure out with someone else listening impartially, how I go about learning to feel my emotions and other feelings both mental and physical without automatically going back to tried to true methods that seem to lead down the same freaking cull-de-sack every time, even if the route looks different at various times it’s always the same dead-freakin’ end apparently.
  BTW, that’s in large part why I’ve not changed my sig-line quote for so long, about the search for enlightenment etc. Because I feel like that exactly, all the time.
  Grrrr.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Matthew Shriver
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 11:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially shortened. I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it. I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff (similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning, about 12 hours ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end, very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling. That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone. Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list as well. I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use of it. But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool for that situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life. Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I did get. I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: power of laughter
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:04:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
December 27, 2005
Animals Enjoy A Good Laugh, Too, Say Scientists
by Peter Gorner, Chicago Tribune Science Reporter
,
Tickling rats to make them chirp with joy may seem frivolous as a scientific
pursuit, yet understanding laughter in animals may lead to revolutionary
treatments for emotional illness, researchers suggest.
Joy and laughter, they say, are proving not to be uniquely human traits.
Roughhousing chimpanzees emit characteristic pants of excitement, their
version of “ha-ha-ha” limited only by their anatomy and lack of breath
control, researchers contend.
Dogs have their own sound to spur other dogs to play, and recordings of the
sound can dramatically reduce stress levels in shelters and kennels,
according to the scientist who discovered it.
Panksepp, of Bowling Green State University in Ohio, sums up the latest
studies in this week’s edition of the journal Science in hopes of alerting
colleagues to results that he terms “spectacular.” The research suggests
that studying animal emotions, once a scientific taboo, seems to be moving
rapidly into the mainstream.
“It’s very, very difficult to find skeptics these days. The study of animal
emotions has really matured.”
“Neural circuits for laughter exist in very ancient regions of the brain,”
Panksepp said, “and ancestral forms of play and laughter existed in other
animals eons before we humans came along.”
Research in this area “is just the beginning wave of the future,” said
comparative ethologist Gordon Burghardt, of the University of Tennessee, who
studies the evolution of play. “It will allow us to bridge the gap with
other species.”
“Tickles are the key,” Panksepp said. “They open up a previously hidden
world.” Panksepp had studied play vocalizations in animals for years before
it occurred to him that they might be an ancestral form of laughter. “Then I
went to the lab and tickled some rats. Tickled them gently around the nape
of their necks. Wow!”
The tickling made the rats chirp happily–“as long as the animal’s friendly
toward you,” he said. “If not, you won’t get a single chirp, just like a
child that might be suspicious of an adult.” During human laughter, the
dopamine reward circuits in the brain light up. When researchers
neurochemically tickled those same areas in rat brains, the rats chirped.
Panksepp said that laughter, at least in response to a direct physical
stimulus such as tickling, may be a common trait shared by all mammals.
Laughter in chimps, our closest genetic relatives, is associated with
rough-and-tumble play and tickling, Provine found. That came as no surprise.
“It’s like the behavior of young children,” said Provine, of the University
of Maryland Baltimore County. “A tickle and laughter are the first means of
communication between a mother and her baby, so laughter appears by about
four months after birth.”
“We humans laugh on outward breaths. When we say `ha-ha-ha,’ we’re chopping
an outward breath,” Provine said. “Chimps can’t do that. They make one sound
per inward and outward breath. They don’t have the breath control to …
make the traditional human laugh.”
The breakthrough in dog laughter was accomplished by University of Nevada,
Reno, researcher Patricia Simonet while working with undergraduates at
Sierra Nevada College in Lake Tahoe.
With extensive chimp research behind her, Simonet was open to the idea of
animal emotions, but the laughing sound she discovered in dogs was
unexpected: a “breathy, pronounced, forced exhalation” that sounds to the
untrained ear like a normal dog pant.
But a spectrograph showed a burst of frequencies, some beyond human hearing.
A plain pant is simpler, limited to just a few frequencies.
Hearing a tape of the dog laugh made single animals take up toys and play by
themselves, Simonet said. It never initiated aggressive responses.
“If you want to invite your dog to play using the dog laugh, say `hee, hee,
hee’ without pronouncing the `ee,'” Simonet said. “Force out the air in a
burst, as if you’re receiving the Heimlich maneuver.”
When she played a recording of a laughing dog at an animal shelter, Simonet
found that even 8-week-old puppies reacted by starting to play, something
they hadn’t done when exposed to other dog sounds.
“Some sounds, like growls, confused the puppies. But the dog laugh caused
sheer joy and brought down the stress levels in the shelter immediately.”
Have a good laugh and we will see you next month,
Marc Deschamps
Editor
Kitten Cat Magazine
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:26:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, I’m glad it turned out well for you.
You actually have some time while the path is still fresh to use
your own power to continue exploring and cleaning up. It is hard to
fathom after the hyperdrive of ibogaine that the main insight may
happen days later, in relative quiet. What you think you know from
the iboga can be part of your remaining defenses to keep you from
the work. Watch out for conclusions of any kind! Learn to recognise
your mind turning off when one has been reached.
If you want another suggestion, I would stay away from the net as
much as possible for the next two weeks and concentrate on yourself
and people who are close to you. Don’t worry too much about future
plans, there will be time for that – now you are in the garden, and
as you saw, it may take a lifetime to fully arrive again on your
own.
But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me,
ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like
I’m
on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of
it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that situation.
This is why I think that .01 to 8.0 mg/kg can do more than 15-25
when addiction isn’t part of the picture. It’s odd how things that
are blown up can come back, but things that you dismantle board by
board don’t reassemble very easily 🙂
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 20:14:12 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I
have done
it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my
metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and
my diet
is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially
shortened.
I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.
When that
kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had
made
arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked
her to
come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But
the
intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder
if the
opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so
that this
time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I
was at this
point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I
felt as if
any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was
terrified, all of
creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I
realized
at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this
experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I
couldn’t do it.
I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just
couldn’t take
any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I
don’t recall
any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory
stuff (similar
to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my
thoughts.  So I
decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning,
about 12 hours
ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end,
very
instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I
actually felt
sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from
doing what
I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I
feel like
I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I
think
ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt
emotions and it
was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind
is like a
train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know
that crud
that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black
dust and
lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all
smeared on all
of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really
thick, like
meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk
around in there
without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without
crawling.
That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of
the unfelt
emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head
feels
absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head
feels so
clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink
about, how
does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this
never has to
happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically
label it
good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in
action
repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to
overflow, I
would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be
gone.
Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I
also
noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.
I noticed
a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on
and it was
making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I
was not
completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested
to me
that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely
awestruck
by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole
life thought
of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like
it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I
saw what
happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind
decides what it
means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just
something that
happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes,
wonderful or
terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And
when that
happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the
mind that
I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup
all these
automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an
adult.  I’m
walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was
like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s
just not
what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I
decided to
change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list
as well.
I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely
believe in
ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to
involve
myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect
for that
drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I
didn’t
completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost
appreciation for
until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort
of imagine
it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some
stuff, but
ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use
of it.
But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking
skyscraper
built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool
for that
situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning
I noticed
something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was
noribogaine,
potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first
2 hours of
this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but
then it
abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something
interesting
going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a
week or so
and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m
off.  I also
want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.
I don’t
mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about
other
people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very
struck by how
much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these
painfully
childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my
whole life.
Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I
did get.
I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in
order to
be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am
looking
for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a
ring and
ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my
friends often
enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.
There’s
going to be some changes made.
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] done/ fear of pain
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:08:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s worked really well for me this time….I have no idea what dose im even on now but apparently it’s low, who knows ,  we’ve been tapering it for the past couple of months, even though I know I didn’t need to……I feel great, and I don’t know why or how, but I do.  Weirdo huh lol.
Yeh I can understand that fear with all the effort required to stay clean I have no idea what I’d do either…..
Have to hurry up and master the power of the mind a Matt?
Lol
K
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, 28 December 2005 2:54 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Kirk
I just read your other post to Preston and you are right about one thing, it probably actually is a good solution for some people.  I seriously doubt that ibogaine is the right answer for everyone, so I have to suspect that methadone isn’t the wrong answer for everyone either.  But speaking for myself, I am NEVER going back to the life I was settling for in those days… Incidentally, chronic pain, or even prolonged, temporary, sever pain has been one of my worst fears since I got clean.  I don’t live in fear of that happening, but if I think about it, it seems terribly scary because I fear what my response would be if I were to actually have to take opiates into my body again.  Bad things man…
Matt
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:00:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Heh yeh sorry dumb question…….I did the same, got off it… nightmarish
swore I’d never do it again.. but here I am.. again lol. Never say never!
How did the done work for you on a whole? Did you feel better more often? Or
not…
K
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????<
Kirk, if I could tell you what I really wanted, I’d have it already I think.
But due to the fact that I did get off methadone as soon as I felt I was
“ready” I think my body and brain and spirit were telling me something, only
now I’m having trouble with other things that I wasn’t while using
methadone, so I get confused and muddled feeling.
   I’m working on things though, as it’s a never-ending process, this thing
called living I find.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it.
It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they
were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself
wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always
think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed.
Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people
around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 1:22:48 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????<
Kirk, if I could tell you what I really wanted, I’d have it already I think.
But due to the fact that I did get off methadone as soon as I felt I was “ready” I think my body and brain and spirit were telling me something, only now I’m having trouble with other things that I wasn’t while using methadone, so I get confused and muddled feeling.
  I’m working on things though, as it’s a never-ending process, this thing called living I find.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 2:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it. It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Dr Ed
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:59:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ed
I think I was too quick to reject your lack of REM underlying so many psychological problems theory.  I think there is probably a lot more truth in it than I was willing to admit before.  I slept for about 6 hours last night and woke several times from more of these long epic dreams.  I can’t remember the last time I have dreamed like this (other than a couple of weeks ago following the low dose ibogaine).
Matt
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 9:52:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy
I had heard about those titles but I had never heard what they were about before.  I’m down with the cognitive dissonance thing.  In fact it has already begun with the whole crying/sadness thing.  Every time I get a sad feeling, I start reminding myself that it’s ok, and I try to let it go, and it’s uncomfortable and weird but I’m working on it.  I’ll get it on that issue.  I’m determined.  My goal is cry like a sissy in front of everyone I know as soon as possible.  As far as all of the other millions of automatic responses I noticed, well I can only imagine that my whole life from here on will be necessary to get all that work done, but I’m determined to try.  I have this overwhelming determination and purpose; I remember having this the last time I did ibogaine too.  It is very empowering.  I actually remember that last time I had so much empowerment and determination that I could for the first time in my life, simply choose NOT to take a drug.  That is probably where some of the talk of reset comes from.  One of the defining characteristics of the addict is that they don’t have the ability to simply choose not to use, somewhere along the line they pass the point where they get to choose anymore and then they must.  But ibogaine actually returned the power to make that choice for me last time.
Matt
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:50 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, matt@itsupport.net writes:
saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1
Matt, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are a couple of books written about this very subject you have described here. One of them is RBT therapy (Rational Behavior Therapy) written by Maxie Maultsby and the other one is RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) written by Albert Ellis. The premise of both books being that for the mind to come up with an emotion it must first have thoughts about what you are experiencing. It only works for those of us able to tell the difference between objective reality and subjective reality. It goes like this. Objective reality is those things we can see, i.e., take a picture of, smell, hear, feel as pain or pleasure, and so forth. You cannot change objective reality because it just is. Subjective reality being just our opinion of what we see excetra. First you experience something objective like you see a guy running down the road with jeans on and street shoes. You can take a picture or a movie of that. That’s objective. Then you have thoughts about what you see. Then you have the emotion. Lets say when you see the guy running you think that he must be running from somebody and it scares you. What if your first thought was “look at that guy, he has no running clothes but he still wants to work out?” your feelings would be more mild, say, you might feel sorry for the guy because he has no running suit, or it might make you think it was funny. You can’t change objective reality, but you can change what you think about it. It looks good on paper, but it is hard to implement. It is work, but you can change your thoughts about things. Especially preconceived things that bother you. For a while you have to force yourself to think differently about them and this period is called cognitive dissonance. Then after a while it becomes thought shorthand and you don’t have to force yourself to think differently, it just happens. Of course this doesn’t work for crazy mother fuckers like me. I can’t ascertain the difference between objective and subjective reality. Do I have cob webs on my face?       Randy
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 8:54:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Kirk
I just read your other post to Preston and you are right about one thing, it probably actually is a good solution for some people.  I seriously doubt that ibogaine is the right answer for everyone, so I have to suspect that methadone isn’t the wrong answer for everyone either.  But speaking for myself, I am NEVER going back to the life I was settling for in those days… Incidentally, chronic pain, or even prolonged, temporary, sever pain has been one of my worst fears since I got clean.  I don’t live in fear of that happening, but if I think about it, it seems terribly scary because I fear what my response would be if I were to actually have to take opiates into my body again.  Bad things man…
Matt
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 12:37 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 6:50:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/26/2005 11:14:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, matt@itsupport.net writes:
saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1
Matt, I don’t know if you are aware of it or not, but there are a couple of books written about this very subject you have described here. One of them is RBT therapy (Rational Behavior Therapy) written by Maxie Maultsby and the other one is RET (Rational Emotive Therapy) written by Albert Ellis. The premise of both books being that for the mind to come up with an emotion it must first have thoughts about what you are experiencing. It only works for those of us able to tell the difference between objective reality and subjective reality. It goes like this. Objective reality is those things we can see, i.e., take a picture of, smell, hear, feel as pain or pleasure, and so forth. You cannot change objective reality because it just is. Subjective reality being just our opinion of what we see excetra. First you experience something objective like you see a guy running down the road with jeans on and street shoes. You can take a picture or a movie of that. That’s objective. Then you have thoughts about what you see. Then you have the emotion. Lets say when you see the guy running you think that he must be running from somebody and it scares you. What if your first thought was “look at that guy, he has no running clothes but he still wants to work out?” your feelings would be more mild, say, you might feel sorry for the guy because he has no running suit, or it might make you think it was funny. You can’t change objective reality, but you can change what you think about it. It looks good on paper, but it is hard to implement. It is work, but you can change your thoughts about things. Especially preconceived things that bother you. For a while you have to force yourself to think differently about them and this period is called cognitive dissonance. Then after a while it becomes thought shorthand and you don’t have to force yourself to think differently, it just happens. Of course this doesn’t work for crazy mother fuckers like me. I can’t ascertain the difference between objective and subjective reality. Do I have cob webs on my face?       Randy
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:37:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
What about an addict with long term pain issues?
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 6:20 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 2:32:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Why don’t you go bak  on it if you were happier and healthier?
This is my second time on it, and I have no problems with being on it. It’s
what was needed at the time. And a year later.. it is all working out..
But….. if it’s what you need and it works for you
Don’t listen to anyone else, what do YOU want????????
Work out the pros n cons and go from there… you need to do something…
Love heaps xxx
Kirk xx
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 27 December 2005 2:15 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 12:44:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, That is a totally appropriate response in my opinion. Sounds a LOT less self centered and I hear your gratitude which I did not hear at all in your first post.
It is very refreshing to hear someone say they realize what a great life they have! That is totally cool! I am grateful for my blessings daily and feel totally undeserving of each one!
I am quite bothered that you are leaving but I will deal with it!
Might take you up on dropping you a line every now and again.
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 27, 2005 at 12:20:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Now wait a second.  Methadone is not actually in the addict’s good interest.  It is longer lasting and therefore much harder to get off of then heroin and it’s probably more destructive on the body too.  I like fruits and vegetables of all kinds, I like clean drinking water, I like fresh air and exercise.  These are all things that are very much in my best interests. 😉
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:56 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post 
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to 
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 27, 2005 at 12:01:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Callie
Wow.  I’m surprised that I came across that way to you.  Although I would have to lie to say that I haven’t been told that I am arrogant.  I certainly don’t mean to be.  When I said I didn’t get what I was after, I meant pretty much what I heard you say.  I meant that I went in with an idea of what I was after, and ibogaine had it’s own agenda, and I came out the other side with an appreciation for the gift I received instead of a regret about the one I didn’t.  Maybe I didn’t word it right before.  The unsubscribing decision is based on the fact that I don’t want to be involved with ibogaine anymore at all.  I just was very forcefully struck by how out of character and inappropriate it is to the life I have made for myself.  I can see now that I truly have a really great life.  I just couldn’t see that before.  I might also point out that the pedestal is only visible in your perception, you would have to knock me off of it.
Matt
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:49 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Matt, I am happy you are back from your journey and that your girlfriend sat with you.
I really wish you would reconsider unsubscribing.
I think that is a totally selfish act or reaction.
You said you did not get what you were after…..maybe you don’t know what you are supposed to get! You sound like you are all knowing in what you should get from your journey but if I understand anything at all about Ibogaine it is that the Ibogaine has to be in control. Can you not relinquish it?
Some of the stuff you say is not selfish or all about you but most of it is.
I wish you well and hope that you change your mind this next week. you have a lot to offer if you can ever get off that pedestal and learn how to be humble.
Hoping the best for you,
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 11:56:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/26/2005 10:18:26 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
> passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
> just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post
> about
> my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to
> this.
>
Seems like you do not like anything that might be in your good interest!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 26, 2005 at 11:49:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, I am happy you are back from your journey and that your girlfriend sat with you.
I really wish you would reconsider unsubscribing.
I think that is a totally selfish act or reaction.
You said you did not get what you were after…..maybe you don’t know what you are supposed to get! You sound like you are all knowing in what you should get from your journey but if I understand anything at all about Ibogaine it is that the Ibogaine has to be in control. Can you not relinquish it?
Some of the stuff you say is not selfish or all about you but most of it is.
I wish you well and hope that you change your mind this next week. you have a lot to offer if you can ever get off that pedestal and learn how to be humble.
Hoping the best for you,
Callie
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 10:40:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I did write “sometimes has me wondering,” not “always has me wondering.
😉
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post about
my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to this.
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 6:15 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] There and back again
Date: December 26, 2005 at 11:14:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
So it was really pretty different than all of the other times I have done it.  I think there were a number of factors contributing to it, my metabolism is faster I’m sure, my all around health is better, and my diet is way better.  So somehow the effect duration was substantially shortened.  I took 16mg/kg in an enema last night, about 25 hours ago now.  When that kicked in I felt really panicky and I called my girlfriend who had made arrangements to stay out of the house for a few days, and I asked her to come home and sit with me.  So she did, and I felt WAY safer.  But the intensity was just more than I could handle, which makes me wonder if the opiates I was on before had actually deadened some of the ibo so that this time I was feeling it so much more viscerally than before.  So I was at this point of feeling like the intensity had stopped climbing but I felt as if any more increase would just make me shriek, I mean I was terrified, all of creation was literally coming undone right in front of me.  But I realized at that point that I was not at the point I was seeking from this experience.  So I pondered the capsules, and in the end, I couldn’t do it.  I agonized over it for a couple of hours, then decided I just couldn’t take any more.  I fell asleep around 2 AM, I slept till 7 or so, I don’t recall any dreams but my girlfriend did say that she saw me in REM.
So when I woke up I was still feeling some background sensory stuff (similar to what I have going on now) but seemingly no effect on my thoughts.  So I decided to take the last of it, another 9 mg/kg this morning, about 12 hours ago now.
Again it was pretty intense, a little frightening, but in the end, very instructive.  Even though I didn’t get what I was after, and I actually felt sad about that last night and sad about letting fear keep me from doing what I thought I wanted, I still feel as though I benefited from it.  I feel like I have some great insight into the source of my depression.  I think ultimately, that my head was packed to the gills with unfelt emotions and it was poisoning every aspect of my thoughts.
Ibogaine came up with an analogy for me.  Imagine that your mind is like a train station, a big room with a very high ceiling.  Now you know that crud that collects on the refrigerator compressor fan, that weird black dust and lint and whatever the hell crap?  Well imagine that stuff all smeared on all of the walls and ceilings.  But so much of it that it is really thick, like meters and meters of this stuff, so much that you can’t walk around in there without hunching over and some areas you can’t get to without crawling.  That’s what I think my head was starting to look like from all of the unfelt emotions.  And the ibogaine came in and just shredded it.  My head feels absolutely freaking spacious now!  I mean that literally, my head feels so clean and clear.
So that’s probably the first thing I want to talk to the shrink about, how does a grown man go about learning to feel his emotions so this never has to happen again?  I noticed how when I get a feeling, I automatically label it good or bad and if it’s bad, I stuff it.  I saw the whole thing in action repeatedly.  I would start to cry, and soon as my eyes began to overflow, I would make a loud sniff followed by a slow exhale and it would be gone.  Just gone, stuffed off where no-one will ever find it, right.  I also noticed that the more I did that, the more my stomach would hurt.  I noticed a very similar thing with the fear.  I had a lot of fear early on and it was making my body ache and writhe but somehow I was also aware that I was not completely feeling it, I was avoiding it.  My girlfriend suggested to me that there is no such thing as a bad feeling and I was completely awestruck by my own capacity for ignorance in not having ever in my whole life thought of that idea.  I know I’m not dumb but holy crap can I act like it.
I saw repeatedly how my mind redirects certain things; basically I saw what happens to a thought or an event or whatever, after my mind decides what it means.  Because before it means anything to me, it is just something that happens.  But as soon as it means something to me, it becomes, wonderful or terrible, or a million other finely graded ready-made labels.  And when that happens, I just react to it. This is all done automatically by the mind that I setup as a child.  And I saw that too,  I saw how I had setup all these automatic interpreters for events that were of just no use to an adult.  I’m walking around with all of this programming that I did when I was like 1.
So I also decided that I never want to do ibogaine again.  That’s just not what I want on my journey through this life anymore.  And I decided to change my clean date.  And I decided to unsubscribe from this list as well.  I have no problem declaring as loudly as I wish that I absolutely believe in ibogaine as a treatment for drug addiction.  But I don’t’ want to involve myself in anything more to do with it.  I have the utmost respect for that drug.  It’s probably the only drug that I have ever taken that I didn’t completely misuse and abuse.  But one thing I had lost appreciation for until it was on me, ibogaine is a fucking powerful drug.  I sort of imagine it like I’m on an archeological dig, and I need to uncover some stuff, but ibogaine is like a freaking nuke and I just can’t make proper use of it.  But when I was on methadone it was like there was a freaking skyscraper built on top of my archeological dig and a nuke was the right tool for that situation.
Incidentally, since I dosed last night and then again this morning I noticed something, it seemed as if the presence of what I guess was noribogaine, potentiated the effect of the ibogaine.  It seemed like the first 2 hours of this mornings dose was almost as powerful as last nights dose, but then it abated fairly quickly so I thought that there might be something interesting going on between the two.
Anyway, I want to say good bye to everyone.  I’ll hang out for a week or so and follow up with any discussion about this post, but them I’m off.  I also want to say I’m sorry to anyone who I may have ever offended here.  I don’t mean to be mean or thoughtless, I actually do honestly care about other people, I just don’t’ always know how to show it.  I am very struck by how much I seemed to have not learned as a child.  I feel like these painfully childish lessons have gone poorly answered or unanswered for my whole life.  Feel free to email me off list even after I have left if you wish.
I didn’t get what I was after but I’m not unsatisfied with what I did get.  I think I may have gotten a piece of the puzzle I need to solve in order to be OK in this world without taking any drugs, and that’s what I am looking for.  I decided actually quite a lot of stuff.  I decided to get a ring and ask my girlfriend to marry me.  I decided that I don’t show my friends often enough or strongly enough, how much I love and appreciate them.  There’s going to be some changes made…
Peace and love to you all, wherever your own journeys may lead.
Matt
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 9:59:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Methadone sux!  No two ways about it for me, I hate that crap with a
passion, and having just come from an ibogaine journey I was reminded of
just how much I can’t stand that $hit.  I was planning to make a post about
my journey but catching up on email left me feeling like responding to this.
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 6:15 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were
prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a
week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was
bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering
what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think
I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I
don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not
once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I
bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do
that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around
you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative,
even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter
Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 8:15:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Randy wrote > I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not once.<
I never did them any other way but how they were prescribed. I took home a week’s worth every week and never once, NEVER, did any extra. It was bizarre, but I did wonderfully on methadone- and still find myself wondering what I was thinking sometimes by getting off it.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative, even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter Randy
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 12:21:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue repeat even though it never results in what I want it to. It always results in the same negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie…<
Yeah, right there with you Callie.
I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction. Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.<
sure Callie, indeed the initial rush feels wonderful, and the pillow between me and my pain is fantastic, but the rest of it sucks, the complications that arise from having that slack face and marble mouth and tired eyes and etc, etc. None of this feels good to this addictive type person, and I must say that while I still think of myself as a legalizer, I don’t like using personally, certainly some substances that are currently illegal and can’t believe I’ve done so again after so long. I’m going through yet another rought patch, which is getting so ridiculous and exhausting, this contant repeating cycle that leaves me confused, not to mention simply furious and depressed and stressed and etc. Most here know the routine I’m sure. I have yet to figure out why I repeatedly do this to myself, put myself in situations whereby I’m simply too discombobulated to make any sense of my life, and why I continue to repeat myself. But for sure I know that for me, addiction long ago lost it’s “feel good” aspects. (Addiction IS diffferent than simple use, but I’ve rarely been able to simply “use” for long I’m sad to say.)
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!<
Ironic, isn’t it. I go through the exact same thing Callie, exactly.
Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:31:19 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In my opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is
when “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it anyway.
Preston, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction. Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.
The one thing that I learned in twelve step groups that was right on was…..”Insanity is repeating the same behavior that causes trouble or pain always expecting a different outcome.” That is basically what you are saying too, isn’t it? This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue repeat even though it never results in what I want it to. It always results in the same negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!
I am hoping Ibogaine will change that part of me.
I have reached that last phase of addiction where I do not feel the euphoria I felt in the beginning. That to me though is not addiction entirely….just a part of addiction.
I believe that my use has ever been my addiction but the way it manifests itself. Addiction is a disorder in me that keeps me feeling a void in all areas of my life and using drugs satiates that gnawing hole in my spiritual being, my emotional being and as a result I am physically addicted so it feeds that hole in my physical self too.
Addiction really sucks no matter how you define it! That is the one thing I know for sure!!
Callie
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 10:11:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/25/2005 11:28:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I thought I was the only person in the program I was on that did that. I don’t think I ever once did my take homes the way they were prescribed. Not once. Callie, so much of what you write reminds me of me. One thing tho, I bet you help the people around you without even thinking about it. You do that over and over with the same results don’t cha? I bet the people around you would be lost without your help. Not every thing you do is negative, even the things you do compulsively. Just a guess. Love and laughter      Randy
From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 26, 2005 at 2:05:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Callie I approve:
you take drugs for pleasure or the well being it procures, whether you need it to solve or hide yr problems, or only for the well being.
By the time the drug does not provide you these high feelings, that inevitably happens one day, by then it is too late. You are trapped. There is no way back. That’s the last endless phase.
Those who succeed to break the chains, have to pay a heavy price: endeavour a bulk of various pains which are the opposite of all the various pleasures you got from yr drug. Only the time factor is different: the pain you need to pay is limited in time, a couple of days may be, or a week, but the intensity of the pain is mountain high.
b.r.
p.r.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:27:54 EST
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:31:19 PM Central Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In my  opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is
when  “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it  anyway.
Preston, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not
feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction.
Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.
The one thing that I learned in twelve step groups that was right on
was…..”Insanity is repeating the same behavior that causes trouble or pain  always
expecting a different outcome.” That is basically what you are saying  too,
isn’t it? This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine  anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue  repeat even
though it never results in what I want it to. It always results  in the same
negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to
find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I
can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I
have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug
free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!
I am hoping Ibogaine will change that part of me.
I have reached that last phase of addiction where I do not feel the  euphoria
I felt in the beginning. That to me though is not addiction  entirely….just
a part of addiction.
I believe that my use has ever been my addiction but the way it manifests
itself. Addiction is a disorder in me that keeps me feeling a void in all areas
of my life and using drugs satiates that gnawing hole in my spiritual being,
my  emotional being and as a result I am physically addicted so it feeds that
hole  in my physical self too.
Addiction really sucks no matter how you define it! That is the one thing I
know for sure!!
Callie
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 11:27:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/25/2005 9:31:19 PM Central Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:
In my opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is
when “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it anyway.
Preston, I gotta disagree with you on this one. Addiction progresses to not feeling good anymore but that is the very last and chronic phase of addiction. Sadly it is the phase where most folks die or end up in prison.
The one thing that I learned in twelve step groups that was right on was…..”Insanity is repeating the same behavior that causes trouble or pain always expecting a different outcome.” That is basically what you are saying too, isn’t it? This insanity is certainly a part of addiction….of mine anyway.
I could sit down and make list after list of behavior I continue repeat even though it never results in what I want it to. It always results in the same negative, painful situation or consequence.
I always expect to never get caught in a lie,I always expect to be able to find a dose of Methadone after I drink tomorrow’s dose today, I always think I can beat a check to the bank when I write a ‘hot’ one, etc., etc.!!!
I also believe that it is insane for me to think I can live drug free. I have not been able to do it before. In fact, each time I have tried to live drug free I ended up in worse shape than I was when I decided to quit!
I am hoping Ibogaine will change that part of me.
I have reached that last phase of addiction where I do not feel the euphoria I felt in the beginning. That to me though is not addiction entirely….just a part of addiction.
I believe that my use has ever been my addiction but the way it manifests itself. Addiction is a disorder in me that keeps me feeling a void in all areas of my life and using drugs satiates that gnawing hole in my spiritual being, my emotional being and as a result I am physically addicted so it feeds that hole in my physical self too.
Addiction really sucks no matter how you define it! That is the one thing I know for sure!!
Callie
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 9:06:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Changes of plans.  It’s tonight, not tomorrow.  In fact in a few minutes.  No I don’t have a sitter.  I have people planning to check on me every so often.  The other change is that I will follow advice for once in my life and try the stepped dose.  I’m doing a slightly lower dose to start (around 15 mg/kg) and will follow it up later if necessary.  Thanks for all of the positive wishes.  My estimations are based on the fact that when I got it, it was separated into two 1-gram packages.  I put most of the first gram into capsules, it would have made 5, but I only made 4 and put the rest into the other gram.  Therefore I estimated the capsules at about 1/5 of a gram each and the rest (which is what I will take) as 1.2 grams.  The rest is based on calculations from my body weight.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2005 9:20 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Matt, I’m with Callie on this. I think you have a great attitude going into this, but I hope that you have someone who is aware of Ibogaine’s effects and dangers with you when you do it. Esp. with the doseage range you are talking about using. How are you going to estimate the amount? Do I remember right when I’m thinking you said you had two grams of Hcl? Keep us informed brutha, and let us know when to start with the candle and positive vibes. “Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow”  (George Clinton)         Randy
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 6:41:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Mr. A wrote >We all like feeling good!  Isn’t that what “addiction” is?<
In my opinion, no, it’s not even close to what addiction is- addiction is when “it” no longer feels good yet we keep doing it anyway.
Peace and love,
Preston Peet
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —– From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
We all like feeling good!  Isn’t that what “addiction” is?  Feeling good from only one thing in life!  Chose only ONE source of feeling good, you’re in trouble, whether it be money, power, drinking, eating, writing, composing, working, making love, etc.  How about feeling good from a lot of things in life?  A little bit of feeling good from a lot of different sources.  That’s moderation.  Mr. Anonymous
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine(Ed, on list)
Date: December 25, 2005 at 12:19:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Legal applications are always being pushed beyond their original purpose(s).  The NSA can tap , hear,or see and monitor everything.  Speaking for this klown only and hopefully everyone on the list,  I (we) would never harm or destroy anything except in self defense or protecting loved ones…. that’s even when I’m bad.  . Thanks to everyone who has taken time to read my pointless diatribes.  Ed, you are probably retired after working your arse off for many thankless yrs., I’m just a worker bee, a  voyager at the hands of some very caring  providers.  How I got here isn’t relevant  as I do not believe a schmuck like me just awakens one day and goes ‘hey things are great, guess I’ll go thru withdrawals, put my gig high on the radar with no bailout options  and  have the flu for a month or more w/residuals.  Some swear I am having fun.   .  I zipped right thru that stage 2 decades ago.  Your sleep stuff is important as is your attitude.  Many thanks to the pros on the list and the laypeople that don’t have diplomma wallpaper but rather a wealth of empiracal experience  and knowledge that they share with a fool like me.
Monkeys off of backs, peaceful paths and quietness to contemplate the experience if one truly  wants it.  I find it to be a taxing  enigma to the unknowing.  i find it very confusing  at a mininum.  thanks to all, ron, koko, bonehead, still in the clutches, hopeful thru you guys, pax —– Original Message —–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
I’m wondering whether the DEA/FBI/CIA used the “Patriot Act” to wire-tap inside the USA to “catch” the Wyoming couple…….?  Doesn’t really sound like “terrorism” to me!  Dr. Ed
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 11:20:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt, I’m with Callie on this. I think you have a great attitude going into this, but I hope that you have someone who is aware of Ibogaine’s effects and dangers with you when you do it. Esp. with the doseage range you are talking about using. How are you going to estimate the amount? Do I remember right when I’m thinking you said you had two grams of Hcl? Keep us informed brutha, and let us know when to start with the candle and positive vibes. “Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow”  (George Clinton)         Randy
From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 11:01:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
good luck budy!!
im with u on the 26th!!!
love and guidance
matt
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 13:37:24 -0000
Hey Matt,
Thanks for being so open in explaining how you’re going to go into the session. Yes, it must be very difficult explaining ibogaine to NA ex-users who are hard-wired to equate “drugs” with “bad.” I’m really hoping the session works for you in the way you want it to and would love to hear more from you, on or off list.
All the best
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 23 December 2005 18:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
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Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Xmas greeting
Date: December 25, 2005 at 9:43:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Merry Christmas!
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tracy is pretty Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 25, 2005 at 9:38:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 24, 2005, at 9:51 PM, ARON KAY wrote:
this ibogaine revelation sure has our adversary hank “the skank” nuesslein
pissed off for sure!!! he dissed the bwiti and paid big time for having a
nazi weapons arsenal and releasing a poster of a pink pig walking on the
kaaba during the 1991 gulf war….read abiut hank via
http://www.pieman.org/hanktheskank.html
—————————————————————– ARON
PIEMAN KAY- BONGS NOT BOMBS! NO TO DUMBYA’S RAW DEAL! http://www.pieman.org
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE!
__________________________________________________
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 25, 2005 at 8:37:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt,
Thanks for being so open in explaining how you’re going to go into the session. Yes, it must be very difficult explaining ibogaine to NA ex-users who are hard-wired to equate “drugs” with “bad.” I’m really hoping the session works for you in the way you want it to and would love to hear more from you, on or off list.
All the best
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net]
Sent: 23 December 2005 18:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 25, 2005 at 8:28:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Dana,
Do you have a write-up or something for the Columbia SSDP event? Something I
can put on the Latest News section of my site?
About Mason’s comments below…I think it’s only really Dana’s site, Cures
Not Wars, that ties the Medical Marijuana thing in so much with ibogaine.
None of the others do, as far as I’m aware. Not mine anyway.
Happy Xmas and all that everybody!
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@phantom.com]
Sent: 25 December 2005 00:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 24, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Mason Shipley wrote:
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
Obviously any arrest is bad news, but from what Paul DiRienzo was
able to unravel, the other offenses seem to have issued from the
initial admission to a federal agent that some one was  waiting to
receive ibogaine they had sent from Belize. (Kind of begs the
question of why didn’t they just fly down and do it at their condo in
Belize?)
But you mischaracterize proponents of the Dutch harm reduction and
the model of market separation of cannabis from hard drugs when you
dismiss everyone who espouses this position as a pot head or “rich
dealer” with a pecuniary interest.
According to Dutch government factsheets, in the context of use,
Amsterdam’s drug policy differentiates between hard and soft drugs,
i.e.: cannabis is available but at locations where no other illicit
substances may be sold, and this “market separation” is strictly
enforced. The total number of hard-drug users is steadily decreasing,
while their average age is rising, from 26.8 years in 1981 to 39
years in 1999 (when the fact sheet was compiled). In the same period
the total number of drug users under 22 years of age dropped from
14.4 percent to 1.6 %.
In other words, under market separation,  a whole lot less new users
were becoming addicted to heroin.
Surely if it is good from a public health standpoint  for people to
quit coke and dope, it is even better for casual users of pot and
psychedelics never to progress to coke and dope to begin with. Surely
you cannot mean to imply that wherever there is pot being smoked,
coke and dope must be available on some kind of equal-opportunity
basis; or that heroin dealers should control the trade in grass and
hash and jack up prices  to support their habits.
As for the contention that tokers are just another sort of addict, or
that cannabis is somehow equivalent to the hard stuff, no less than
NIDA,  the National Institute on Drug Abuse, was disappointed  when
they found the dopamine model they relied on to explain drug abuse
and addiction seemed to absolve marijuana altogether because of the
modest uptick pot produced in dopamine levels.
In 2001 a Swiss researcher, Francois Conquet made an interesting
discovery with “knock-out” mice which had been bio-engineered not to
have a particular glutamate pathway called m (for messenger) GluR5.
Mice with no mGluR5 could not be trained to self-inject cocaine. This
is highly significant because elimination of dopamine transporters
and receptors in other knock-outs still left them able to be addicted
through cocaine’s rewarding effects on serotonin. Microdialysis
recorded the same dopamine spikes in both wild mice and the mGluR5-
deficient ones, but soon after the researchers substituted
intravenous cocaine for food, the mGluR5 knock-outs stopped pressing
the lever. Their affinities for food, water, mating were unaffected;
but cocaine could no longer “fool” the knock-outs into accepting it
as a replacement for food, water and mating.
So it is significant that Ibogaine and cannabis are both glutamate
antagonists; although unlike ibogaine, which comes along to “plug the
hole” after inonotropic glutamate receptors have opened up to let
minerals through the cell membrane. Instead, cannabinols act to
“backsignal” along the metabotropic  gultamate pathways  that work
(like mGluR5) through he second messenger systems and modulate
signals of other neurotransmitters.
What cannabinols do is to tell glutamate cells to chill out, to stop
firing so much glutamate, something that is necessary whenever too
much glutamate causes cell processes to burn too hot. The original
evolutionary function of anandamide (endogenous cannabinoid) was
probably to control inflammation, which is why medical marijuana is
useful for treating conditions from rheumatoid arthritis to Crohn’s
disease, while ibogaine is more effective at  stopping “glutamate
cascade” if given acutely immediately after a stroke to block stroke
damage.
Anyway, there’s just no scientific basis for grouping marijuana with
coke, dope, speed, or nicotine. It’s even safer than beer, and in a
ideal world, we could prevent millions of fatalities worldwide every
year if we could switch the world to a marijuana monoculture.
Proponents of market separation are finally coming to see that
aggressive promotion of ibogaine via the soft drugs scene is much
more effective at separating hard from soft  than government
regulation, which is fickle as recent Dutch experience shows–a kind
of automatic free market alternative to state intervention.
Medical marijuana to deal with nausea and after-rawness of ibogaine
is an accepted part of the treatment in Amsterdam and Rosarita.
Medical marijuana maintenance after ibogaine is being more and more
accepted as an acceptable outcome of Ibogaine treatment (way less
carcinogenic than cigarettes).
With everyone from therapeutic communities, to accupuncturists, to
the National Association of Methadone Advocates willing to lend
support to Ibogaine as a treatment alternative, why spurn the support
of the part of the harm  reduction movement–the mass movement– that
supports the Dutch Model?
Dana/cnw
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT- village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!-releasing   a poster
Date: December 25, 2005 at 5:45:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
all the best wishes for 2006 to everyone!
Sara Glatt,
who is a provider of a therapy for healing and exploration,
an artist.
from The Netherlands.
Daphne V.Vliet and
laurence Cherniak,
who is many things and most of all a
Cannabis artis.
from Canada.
will be releasing a poster soon
http://www.cherniak.com/LCcmclArtwrksDcs/BdahPstrSries1.html
enjoy!
this ibogaine revelation sure has our adversary hank “the skank” nuesslein
pissed off for sure!!! he dissed the bwiti and paid big time for having a
nazi weapons arsenal and releasing a poster of a pink pig walking on the
kaaba during the 1991 gulf war….read abiut hank via
http://www.pieman.org/hanktheskank.html
—————————————————————– ARON
PIEMAN KAY- BONGS NOT BOMBS! NO TO DUMBYA’S RAW DEAL!
http://www.pieman.org
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE!
__________________________________________________
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: “ARON KAY” <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 9:51:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
this ibogaine revelation sure has our adversary hank “the skank” nuesslein
pissed off for sure!!! he dissed the bwiti and paid big time for having a
nazi weapons arsenal and releasing a poster of a pink pig walking on the
kaaba during the 1991 gulf war….read abiut hank via
http://www.pieman.org/hanktheskank.html
—————————————————————– ARON
PIEMAN KAY- BONGS NOT BOMBS! NO TO DUMBYA’S RAW DEAL! http://www.pieman.org
KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT FOR PEACE AND JUSTICE!
__________________________________________________
—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 9:18:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/24/2005 12:25:56 PM Central Standard Time, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.
These black and white terms as you call it, has been the only way alot of people have stayed clean so try to understand where they are coming from. I think you do understand that well. Maybe you will be the one to change their minds about Ibogaine! I sure hope so! At least they are being respectful about it.
The reaction you got from the NA folks is the reaction I get from everyone.
Folks here on the list ask me what my hesitation is. The first is money, the second is that the only people who think this is a good idea are you folks on this list!! Even my open minded friends raise an eyebrow to Ibogaine.
Matt, you do have someone knowledgeable to be by your side during this experience don’t you? You may have said and I didn’t see or if I did see you say, I forgot it.
I wish you the most luck I can imagine!! I am looking forward to hearing you share about this.
If attitude has anything to do with the success or fail of the Ibogaine experience, you should pass with flying colors. You are a very thoughtful man. Peace to you!
Callie
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 7:18:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 24, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Mason Shipley wrote:
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
Obviously any arrest is bad news, but from what Paul DiRienzo was able to unravel, the other offenses seem to have issued from the initial admission to a federal agent that some one was  waiting to receive ibogaine they had sent from Belize. (Kind of begs the question of why didn’t they just fly down and do it at their condo in Belize?)
But you mischaracterize proponents of the Dutch harm reduction and the model of market separation of cannabis from hard drugs when you dismiss everyone who espouses this position as a pot head or “rich dealer” with a pecuniary interest.
According to Dutch government factsheets, in the context of use, Amsterdam’s drug policy differentiates between hard and soft drugs, i.e.: cannabis is available but at locations where no other illicit substances may be sold, and this “market separation” is strictly enforced. The total number of hard-drug users is steadily decreasing, while their average age is rising, from 26.8 years in 1981 to 39 years in 1999 (when the fact sheet was compiled). In the same period the total number of drug users under 22 years of age dropped from 14.4 percent to 1.6 %.
In other words, under market separation,  a whole lot less new users were becoming addicted to heroin.
Surely if it is good from a public health standpoint  for people to quit coke and dope, it is even better for casual users of pot and psychedelics never to progress to coke and dope to begin with. Surely you cannot mean to imply that wherever there is pot being smoked, coke and dope must be available on some kind of equal-opportunity basis; or that heroin dealers should control the trade in grass and hash and jack up prices  to support their habits.
As for the contention that tokers are just another sort of addict, or that cannabis is somehow equivalent to the hard stuff, no less than NIDA,  the National Institute on Drug Abuse, was disappointed  when they found the dopamine model they relied on to explain drug abuse and addiction seemed to absolve marijuana altogether because of the modest uptick pot produced in dopamine levels.
In 2001 a Swiss researcher, Francois Conquet made an interesting discovery with “knock-out” mice which had been bio-engineered not to have a particular glutamate pathway called m (for messenger) GluR5. Mice with no mGluR5 could not be trained to self-inject cocaine. This is highly significant because elimination of dopamine transporters and receptors in other knock-outs still left them able to be addicted through cocaine’s rewarding effects on serotonin. Microdialysis recorded the same dopamine spikes in both wild mice and the mGluR5-deficient ones, but soon after the researchers substituted intravenous cocaine for food, the mGluR5 knock-outs stopped pressing the lever. Their affinities for food, water, mating were unaffected; but cocaine could no longer “fool” the knock-outs into accepting it as a replacement for food, water and mating.
So it is significant that Ibogaine and cannabis are both glutamate antagonists; although unlike ibogaine, which comes along to “plug the hole” after inonotropic glutamate receptors have opened up to let minerals through the cell membrane. Instead, cannabinols act to “backsignal” along the metabotropic  gultamate pathways  that work (like mGluR5) through he second messenger systems and modulate signals of other neurotransmitters.
What cannabinols do is to tell glutamate cells to chill out, to stop firing so much glutamate, something that is necessary whenever too much glutamate causes cell processes to burn too hot. The original evolutionary function of anandamide (endogenous cannabinoid) was probably to control inflammation, which is why medical marijuana is useful for treating conditions from rheumatoid arthritis to Crohn’s disease, while ibogaine is more effective at  stopping “glutamate cascade” if given acutely immediately after a stroke to block stroke damage.
Anyway, there’s just no scientific basis for grouping marijuana with coke, dope, speed, or nicotine. It’s even safer than beer, and in a ideal world, we could prevent millions of fatalities worldwide every year if we could switch the world to a marijuana monoculture.
Proponents of market separation are finally coming to see that aggressive promotion of ibogaine via the soft drugs scene is much more effective at separating hard from soft  than government regulation, which is fickle as recent Dutch experience shows–a kind of automatic free market alternative to state intervention.
Medical marijuana to deal with nausea and after-rawness of ibogaine is an accepted part of the treatment in Amsterdam and Rosarita. Medical marijuana maintenance after ibogaine is being more and more accepted as an acceptable outcome of Ibogaine treatment (way less carcinogenic than cigarettes).
With everyone from therapeutic communities, to accupuncturists, to the National Association of Methadone Advocates willing to lend support to Ibogaine as a treatment alternative, why spurn the support of the part of the harm  reduction movement–the mass movement– that supports the Dutch Model?
Dana/cnw
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 6:34:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx for your response!  Dr. Ed
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:57:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think there are some valid arguments for the separation of the ibogaine and medical marijuana movements, but on the other hand, think about this… They are both medicines that patients have largely discovered themselves. People generally use ibogaine or medical marijuana because they themselves, or their friends, have discovered that they work, rather than because a doctor tells them to take them. And I think this is a large part of why both are illegal here. So in that sense, I think the ibogaine and medical marijuana movements have a lot in common. They are both striving to legitamise medicines that the proponents know work, because they’ve worked for them. Both are naturally occuring substances that have traditionally* been seen as deviant drugs, and so both face similar obstacles to acheiving a place in conventional medicine.
* when i say traditional i’m referring to conventional opinions in the US from the past 40 years or so. not traditional as in older cultutes, where both ibogaine and marijuana have had accepted uses for centuries or longer…
Mason Shipley wrote:
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
On 12/24/05, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
   Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
  Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
  Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:44:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sleep is no doubt an important part of recovery, mental health, and health in general. But to think that it’s the only thing that affects recovery is to ignore a lot of other important factors. I think it’s important to look at both the macro and micro analysis. If you only focus on one or the other, you’re missing half the picture.
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
Am following and trying to understand your analysis.  To me it seems more of the same ?lost country that modern psychiatrists are in, micro-analysis of brain sites and chemicals which continue to be far more numerous and interactive than we have to capacity to understand and in which to intervene effectively.  I prefer the “macro-analysis” of understanding the ONE healing phenomenon of the brain…..SLEEP.  It helps me understand WHO becomes susceptible to drug abuse, and pursue the possibility that the, as yet unsolved dilemma, of replacing sleep needs could be an answer.  Ibogaine sounds to me as though it replaces REM-Stage Sleep in a dramatic fashion.  All “addicting” drugs prevent REM-replacement, but allow NREM Slow Wave Sleep, which may be why addicts stay as physically “healthy” as they do, despite horrible health habits.  I’m presuming that SWS helps body healing, but REM is necessary for MENTAL-EMOTIONAL-LIMBIC healing.  Sooner or later the REM-“pressure” even eats away at the SWS need, requiring higher and higher doses of narcotic to control it……or…..disaster and/or death.  Of course, long range Recovery is still the BIG issue, even if folks temporarily “catch-up” on sleep needs with ibogaine/plus?  I tried valiantly to reproduce “normal” sleep with low doses of Doxepin and Thioridazine on a variety of patients, not all addicts, with “Chronic Organic Insomnia” for years with some partial success, but couldn’t get the blessings of my psychiatrist colleagues who were enamored with “over-doses” of “second-generation” antipsychotics, antidepressants and mood stabilizers.  Would appreciate your thoughts/reaction.  Dr. Ed
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:02:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, jfreed1@umbc.edu
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Am following and trying to understand your analysis.  To me it seems more of the same ?lost country that modern psychiatrists are in, micro-analysis of brain sites and chemicals which continue to be far more numerous and interactive than we have to capacity to understand and in which to intervene effectively.  I prefer the “macro-analysis” of understanding the ONE healing phenomenon of the brain…..SLEEP.  It helps me understand WHO becomes susceptible to drug abuse, and pursue the possibility that the, as yet unsolved dilemma, of replacing sleep needs could be an answer.  Ibogaine sounds to me as though it replaces REM-Stage Sleep in a dramatic fashion.  All “addicting” drugs prevent REM-replacement, but allow NREM Slow Wave Sleep, which may be why addicts stay as physically “healthy” as they do, despite horrible health habits.  I’m presuming that SWS helps body healing, but REM is necessary for MENTAL-EMOTIONAL-LIMBIC healing.  Sooner or later the REM-“pressure” even eats away at the SWS need, requiring higher and higher doses of narcotic to control it……or…..disaster and/or death.  Of course, long range Recovery is still the BIG issue, even if folks temporarily “catch-up” on sleep needs with ibogaine/plus?  I tried valiantly to reproduce “normal” sleep with low doses of Doxepin and Thioridazine on a variety of patients, not all addicts, with “Chronic Organic Insomnia” for years with some partial success, but couldn’t get the blessings of my psychiatrist colleagues who were enamored with “over-doses” of “second-generation” antipsychotics, antidepressants and mood stabilizers.  Would appreciate your thoughts/reaction.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 4:06:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
We all like feeling good!  Isn’t that what “addiction” is?  Feeling good from only one thing in life!  Chose only ONE source of feeling good, you’re in trouble, whether it be money, power, drinking, eating, writing, composing, working, making love, etc.  How about feeling good from a lot of things in life?  A little bit of feeling good from a lot of different sources.  That’s moderation.  Mr. Anonymous
From: Mason Shipley <maseshipley@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 3:40:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I still don’t really understand what all the connections between all
of you are, Patrick, Dana, Howard Lotsof, the whole ibogaine movement
or what your personal relationships, but doing basic research and
putting names into a search engine comes back with decades of history,
nearly all of it founded on rich cannabis dealers, or medical
marijuana if you prefer.
MindVox is a nice site, great eye candy, good writing, but I can’t
help but notice that Cures not Wars is so integrated into it that you
can’t click more than 4 pages without yet another link to Cures not
Wars and to a lesser degree ibogaine.org and ibogaine.co.uk. The 4 of
you, Dana, Patrick, Howard and Nick are like a circular flashing
billboard to each other. Sorry, Patrick also throws in Dr. Mash every
second link, didn’t want to forget that one.
Without ranting, do you really think it helps to constantly commingle
ibogaine with the marijuana movement, which to the most of the world
is just another group of drug addicts who are no better off then
junkies or crackheads.
As for the arrest, this is helpful how? Someone facing speed and gun
charges mixes ibogaine that doesn’t even exist and is somewhere in
Belize into the picture. Great news for all! Why don’t I believe that
this is legit and nothing more then someone trying to beat their drug
charges and drag ibogaine into it, which from reading the articles
never entered the country in the first place!
Regardless, a good Christmas and all the best to everyone with hopes
of sobriety in the new year to all.
-Mase
On 12/24/05, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to
plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this
is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm
reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic.
So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense
to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users
what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike.
Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with
the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 3:29:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dana, I’m over it. I’m gald very gald the story made it to press and anything that helps the movement is fine with me. I was just a bit upset that I was named without my concent. Merry Christmas and I’ll stop by tomorrow. -m.
From:  Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date:  Sat, 24 Dec 2005 15:21:41 -0500
>
>On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
>>
>>You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands
>>out
>>those quotes and names 😉
>>
>>Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how
>>anybody
>>who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you
>>type
>>their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
>>heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
>>middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
>>
>>If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own
>>problem 😉
>>I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be
>>you.
>>Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t
>>  get
>>a job anymore.
>>
>>.:vector:.
>>
>
>On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE
>to  plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet
>this  is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers
>and harm  reduction folks around NYC?
>
>The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of
>  how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started
>getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in
>Sept.)
>
>We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment
>team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new
>presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick
>  is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is
>cholinergic.  So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it
>makes no sense  to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not
>just ask users  what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is:
>it’s dreamlike.  Hence acetyl-choline.
>
>Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one
>  day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners
>have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
>
>
>Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
>
>P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at
>Lincoln Detox:
>
>>From: mollie@freedom-center.org
>>
>>      Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
>>I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of
>>  us—from a
>>combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the
>>beginning of
>>january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
>>     Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction
>>through safe,
>>effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar
>>focus we
>>thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the
>>trip. What do
>>you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
>>     Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy
>>with  the
>>training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or
>>the weekend
>>we may have some available time.
>>
>>Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great
>>work!
>>
>>Mollie Hurter.
>>
>
>Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
>
>
>
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 24, 2005 at 3:21:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 22, 2005, at 1:42 PM, Vector Vector wrote:
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
On the upside, do you know how hard it usually is to get the VOICE to plug one of our forums two months in advance? Or how much cachet this is going to give it with other SSDP chapters, drug reformers and harm reduction folks around NYC?
The lineup for the conference is aimed at addressing the question of how ibogaine works —  a subject of some interest since I started getting the list again. (I’ve been off since my computer crashed in Sept.)
We going to have Patrick, Kamlet, Carl Anderson, the NY treatment team — plus, Dr. Ken is in communication w. Glick re a new presentation on the multiple mechanisms of action of Ibogaine. Glick is focused on a nicotinic receptor, you know, which is cholinergic. So Ken’s looking at acetyl-choline again. He says it makes no sense to do all these  rat discrimination studies and not just ask users what drugs ibogaine is like. And the feedbaclk is: it’s dreamlike. Hence acetyl-choline.
Stay tuned for details as to time and building at Columbia. It’s one day, Saturday the 25th of February. No charge, but out-of-towners have to make arrangement for transportation and lodging.
Dana Beal/ 212-677-4899
P.S. I got this great invitation to meet with people training at Lincoln Detox:
From: mollie@freedom-center.org
    Hello everyone over there at cures not wars!
I’m writing from Western, MA and writing because there are a few of us—from a
combination of MA, montana, and new orleans coming to nyc in the beginning of
january to do am acupuncture training at lincoln detox hospital.
   Since this training has so much do to with drug addiction through safe,
effective, enpowered means and since y’all seem to have a simliar focus we
thought maybe it may be cool to meet up at some point during the trip. What do
you think? How is everyone’s schedule round there?
   Most likely during the daytime week we will be pretty busy with the
training— though if you guys are ever around during the night or the weekend
we may have some available time.
Ok, look forward to hearing from you—thanks for all the great work!
Mollie Hurter.
Mark, you guys should meet up with them.
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 2:07:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:29:21 -0800 Matthew Shriver
<matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as
though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I
was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.
I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of
biological predisposition to depression.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing
psychologists all through school because I acted out violently
and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and
then later better stuff.
For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were
a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the
other way around.
Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with
feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My
life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a
girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have
ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my
life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel
like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking
stand it anymore.
You may have heard the theory that people learn to treat their
childhood as the norm, no matter how bad it was, and that when
conditions change, even for the better, it can seem false and make
the person uneasy, missing the old state. From what you have said,
this theory seems much more likely than a hereditary disposition to
depression.
… So being that I have been anxious about this
whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.
… I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose
affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours
later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and
I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I
want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as
I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it
completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel,
by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the
effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a
low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear
that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too
much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of
surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that
the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going
to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that
it should be a little higher.
There is something paradoxical about trying to surrender by setting
up the right conditions for it.
I think that too high a dose can limit the possibilities for
surrender as much or more than a low dose, particularly when
working without supervision. A basic sense of safety is met when
doing something like this with a trusted guide, and doing it alone
can cause one to clam up in the face of the unknown. Thus
overshooting the dose can be one way to keep control.
I advocate a stepped dose because then the iboga can guide you.
Also I think that one week before returning to work is a short time
for an upper-range dose – mainly because with such a dose you could
spend another week working on yourself in a way that returning to
your normal patterns could prevent.
In any case, it sounds like your life is good, and having a
psychologist lined up for after the iboga is a good sign. I am
holding best wishes for your experience however you pursue it.
My own experience has been that one can only move forward, i.e.
there is no point in trying to recreate an old experience, and that
although there can be bursts of amazing progress, in the end one
has to settle for slow but continuous work and revelation in order
to keep moving. For entheogens, ayahuasca works better for me in
this context, partly because it is much easier on the body, and
partly because I do it in a church and there can be beauty,
meaning, and parallel learning in that.. and a sense of safety in
collective effort. It almost sounds easy! But it’s not 🙂
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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 24, 2005 at 11:20:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Wow! Matt, you have given this alot of thought & I respect that.I’ll be interested in your reflections when you come “back”,love shell
Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..
Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.
You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 24, 2005 at 6:16:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
thanks jon and merry christmas everybody
-ekki
Am 23.12.2005 um 18:46 schrieb jon:
oh, my bad… i should have said that most recreational drugs reduce the PRODUCTION of serotonin in the NAC..
this is an important distinction; affecting the production of a neurotransmitter is different than affect its release… for example, MDMA increases serotonin RELEASE, not production. that’s why a lot of people experience a brief depression a day or two after taking MDMA, cause their neurons have squirted out most of their serotonin.
But you’re definately right that it’s more complicated than just increasing or decreasing levels of certain neurotransmitters. For example, many drugs increase levels of serotonin in some areas of the brain, while decreasing it in others. Now, there are 14 serotonin receptors (that we know of), which all do somewhat different things. So even just looking at serotonin, two drugs that both increase serotonin levels may have significantly different effects based on which serotonin receptors they’re activiting. Then, if you also consider that there are some 50 other neurotransmitters (that we know of), the picture gets mighty complex indeed. Then factor in the fact that affecting the transmission of one neurotransmitter is also likely to affect the transmission of other neurotransmitters, and it get’s even more complex.
So, to figure out how ibogaine exerts its anti-addictive effects, you probably have to take into account all the different neurotransmitters it affects and how they interact.
As far as noribogaine, I would suspect that it does play a role in the anti-addictive effects, but I would be skeptical that it plays a bigger role than ibogaine itself. I mean, I certainly think it’s important to study noribogaine’s effects, but I do think Mash is getting a bit preoccupied with it, probably because of her financial interests in it (though that’s just my opinion, I don’t have anything solid to back that up).
Regarding DXM, I don’t know how that would affect ibogaine’s effects. But there has been some research showing that DXM has some anti-addictive effects in its own right. Which I find pretty interesting, as DXM is derived from opiates. =)
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:29:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:43:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I apologize if this comes through twice but for some reason it hasn’t shown up after sending the first time.
From: Matthew Shriver [mailto:matt@itsupport.net] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 11:29 AM
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hi Shelley
The dose range is based on my previous experiences with ibo.  Since I got clean I have been mountain biking and rock climbing on a regular basis and have gotten into, what is for me, the best physical condition of my life.  So the two grams of ibo I got would equate to about 27mg/kg which would be more than I have ever taken and more than I want to take.  But, on the heels of the surrender conversation we had in here recently, I am hoping for something along those lines and I don’t want to miss the train on that.  Briefly my ibogaine experiences look something like this:
First experience (heroin dependant) was about 20mg/kg.  I felt unready mentally for what was happening so I tried (and succeeded so it seemed) to go to sleep.  I don’t remember most of the experience as a result.  Although I was not sick, I craved, so I used heroin again within a few days.
Second and third experiences (heroin dependant) about 15mg/kg each time.  I was afraid to take the full dose based on my first experience.  By the time I was strung-out on heroin, I had stopped using other hallucinogens; and slowly my addiction eroded my self esteem and self image to the point where close self examination (which can come up on hallucinogens, but especially on ibogaine) was really painful.  I was somewhat sick and had cravings and returned to heroin within a few days both times.
Fourth experience (still heroin dependant) about 20mg/kg I think.  This was the first time I took the full dose and determined to stay awake and ride out the whole experience.  I stayed clean for about 30 days before I relapsed again.
Fifth experience (methadone dependant) about 22mg/kg.  This was like 4+ years later.  I was desperate enough to not care what the experience was going to look like in terms of uncomfortable feelings or whatever.  By this time there were more cases of fatalities due to ibogaine, previous to this it was generally believed that fatalities were limited to people who mixed other drugs with the ibogaine, by this time it was clear that there were cases where there weren’t other drugs present.  But I also felt at that time that death was preferable to continuing the way I was going.  So I went for it, I had an amazingly profound experience and have been clean to this day.  Incidentally, I have also been a non TV watcher, and a vegetarian since that day as well.  I have never seen such water cooler classics as Survivor or, well that’s the only one I can think of, oh people always talk about CSI, never seen that either.
So as briefly as I can here is my thinking going into this:
After 2 and half years clean, and being active in NA, I feel as though the shine has left my life. My connection with whatever I was connected to during my last ibogaine session has faded.  I have recently had to admit that I may well have some sort of biological predisposition to depression.  But the thing is that I can’t tell the difference between depression and addiction.  They both seem to manifest in this vague sense of something missing inside; some internal lack.  Although depression seems to have a much greater mood lowering effect, addiction is more a sense of unease while depression is a more hopeless feeling.  But these are really just distinctions I have recently made, the truth is that it is hard for me to tell what is behind what I am feeling sometimes.
I remember being extremely unhappy as a kid and I was seeing psychologists all through school because I acted out violently and anti-socially.  Then I discovered drugs, alcohol first and then later better stuff.  Opiates were my hands down favorites, but in true addict fashion I would use other drugs when my favorites weren’t available.  On and off over the years I was also on anti-depressants because every so often the addict life would get unbearable and I would try and off myself and wake up in the nut hut.  But I always felt like the whole “chemical imbalance” thing was an excuse used by psychologists so they could hand out another scrip and send you on your way.  For me I had always assumed that my problems with depression were a result of my using.  Now it appears that it may have been the other way around.  Now that I have been clean and had some direct experience with feeling depressed I have had to revise some of my notions.  My life has never been better, I have a good relationship with a girl whom I love, I have a great job making more money than I have ever made, I respect myself for the way I am able to show up in my life, I never steal or lie to the best of my abilities, but I feel like shit inside most of the time and I can’t freaking stand it anymore.
So I followed all of the suggestions of my NA sponsor and friends and attempted to use the “treatment” for addiction to treat my depression and it failed completely.  I was attending 5 NA meetings a week, talking to people in the program, working steps, meditating daily, exercising regularly, and feeling like suicide was looking more and more like a viable option.  This was about 4 months ago or so.  So at the suggestion of my boss (who is also in NA) I went to the doctor and got on anti-depressants again.  There has been an improvement in my mood but the side effects have sucked so I have discontinued them, and the depression has returned.  So I finally decided to do the ibogaine again.  I have been in discussion about it for like 6 months or more.
So my plan is to use the days immediately following the ibo to try and address whatever internal issues I have going on and try and deal with the source of this depression.  If necessary I am willing to try other anti-depressants and play that stupid assed medication balancing game, but hopefully I won’t have to burn that bridge for some time yet if at all.
Ok so having said way too much already, there is one more thing that factors into my dosage decision.  As I mentioned, I got 2 grams and I am not going to take it all.  So being that I have been anxious about this whole decision, I took about 3mg/kg a week ago.  (If anything I should probably change my clean date over that but whatever…)  I was hoping that a low dose would help me to feel more comfortable with the idea, thinking that when the feeling hit, it would be somehow familiar and less scary.  Well that happened a little, but it also re-enforced my fear a little somehow.  I was really surprised by how strongly such a low dose affected me.  But I was even more surprised that about 4 hours later I felt completely normal again, except that it was late and I wasn’t tired.
So 1000 words later, here’s the real answer to your question.  I want to take enough to hopefully get as powerful of an effect as I had last time, powerful enough that I can surrender to it completely.  The surrender effect was achieved last time, I feel, by being overwhelmed by the ibogaine.  But based on how short the effect of the low dose was I am afraid of taking a low (say 8-10mg/kg) dose and then trying to add to it for fear that the low dose will allow me to acclimate to the feeling too much so that adding to the dose won’t get me to the place of surrender.  I might also add that my intuition tells me that the higher dose is better.  Originally I was going to go with the 15mg/kg range but I have just had this sense that it should be a little higher.
I also wanted to address your comments about the 12 steppers.  My sponsor is convinced this is a horrible idea and he considers it using; he has even gone so far as to suggest that doing ibogaine might lead to me using heroin again which I find rather ridiculous.  Ironically, my boss is his sponsor and he is more open minded about it, but he has 25 years clean and my sponsor only has 16 so maybe it takes that long to loosen up some of those ideas.  But my sponsor and many other people who I have talked to about it, view it in very black and white terms, because that’s what works for them.  Addicts are just way to prone to rationalize reasons why using is ok.  People in recovery know that, so they draw the line in a very conservative way.  If they consider all drugs as powerful as ibogaine to be using, then they don’t have to question whether or not something like that might ever be a good idea for them.
But then someone like me comes along and not only says that ibogaine is different but that I am actually seriously considering using it again, with 2 and half years clean and active in NA, some people get really threatened by that.  So what I have done is be very careful about who I have told that I am doing it.  I had the conversation about considering the idea with a lot of people and found that a lot of them had negative reactions, sometimes they were condescending and even offensive to me and my beliefs and experiences.  I was more than a little put out by it.  But I get that that is what works for them.  They need to do what they need to do, and I need to do what I need to do.  But now that I have actually made the decision, the people who I have told about it have been skeptical, but respectful.
Matt
From: shelley krupa [mailto:skrupa20022002@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell

Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..

Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.

You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!


Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 2:02:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
that we still have alot to explore and that takes time.
       Lost me there.What do you mean?
Sara Glatt wrote:           Or,God gave us everything but time, Datas and
agendas.                   or, God gave us everything?
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM
Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:     If there is a
shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we  should not
forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover  in what
ways  it can help us to feel better with ourselves   Sara, you are
beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no doubt about
your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I read what you
write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the
kids………..Randy
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 12:43:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/23/2005 10:47:50 AM Central Standard Time, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
sounds like you can get addicted to the cure
Don’t know about y’all but I can get addicted to anything that feels good! ANYTHING!!!
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:07:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Lost me there.What do you mean?
Sara Glatt wrote:
  Or,God gave us everything but time, Datas and agendas.
      or, God gave us everything?
 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM
Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
   If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then
we
 should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
 in what ways
 it can help us to feel better with ourselves
 Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to
you and the kids………..Randy
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks
Date: December 23, 2005 at 12:46:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
oh, my bad… i should have said that most recreational drugs reduce the PRODUCTION of serotonin in the NAC..
this is an important distinction; affecting the production of a neurotransmitter is different than affect its release… for example, MDMA increases serotonin RELEASE, not production. that’s why a lot of people experience a brief depression a day or two after taking MDMA, cause their neurons have squirted out most of their serotonin.
But you’re definately right that it’s more complicated than just increasing or decreasing levels of certain neurotransmitters. For example, many drugs increase levels of serotonin in some areas of the brain, while decreasing it in others. Now, there are 14 serotonin receptors (that we know of), which all do somewhat different things. So even just looking at serotonin, two drugs that both increase serotonin levels may have significantly different effects based on which serotonin receptors they’re activiting. Then, if you also consider that there are some 50 other neurotransmitters (that we know of), the picture gets mighty complex indeed. Then factor in the fact that affecting the transmission of one neurotransmitter is also likely to affect the transmission of other neurotransmitters, and it get’s even more complex.
So, to figure out how ibogaine exerts its anti-addictive effects, you probably have to take into account all the different neurotransmitters it affects and how they interact.
As far as noribogaine, I would suspect that it does play a role in the anti-addictive effects, but I would be skeptical that it plays a bigger role than ibogaine itself. I mean, I certainly think it’s important to study noribogaine’s effects, but I do think Mash is getting a bit preoccupied with it, probably because of her financial interests in it (though that’s just my opinion, I don’t have anything solid to back that up).
Regarding DXM, I don’t know how that would affect ibogaine’s effects. But there has been some research showing that DXM has some anti-addictive effects in its own right. Which I find pretty interesting, as DXM is derived from opiates. =)
hi jon, i´ve read that some recreational drugs, especially MDMA of course, but also amph/meth and to a lesser degree cocaine and nicotine raise levels of serotonine (i mean immediately and not in the long run), however i´m not sure in which region of the brain. could you please point to a paper that states that recreational drugs reduce serotonin?
Popik states “this alkaloid (ibogaine) can produce complex (and sometimes apparently opposite) effects on dopaminergic function.” btw it has been shown that SSRI´s can cause imbalance between dopaminergic and serotonergic systems and serotonin can use pathways of dopamin, too. anyway i asume that ibogaine maybe balances dopaminergic as well as serotonergic systems and their relationship to each other rather than just raising and lowering levels.
but since dopamin and serotonin can be regulated with other medications than ibogain but without any miraculous anti-addiction results the anti-addicitve properties might be perhaps more due to other stuff, too, like what you describe later on.
————
a professional recently told me he think that noribogaine by itself is NOT like THE killer, although having its positive effects. Glick with his research goes successfully into a totally different direction than the noribo theories. maybe Mash overemphasizes noribo because of her efforts to get a patent and also in the 90ties not much about other stuff (like GDNF etc.) was known.
(see in german: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogain#Medizin_und_Pharmakologie and the appendant discussion page)
_________
are there any comments about DXM in relationship to ibo and opiates? DXM besides giving CEVs,too, also can lower tolerance against opiates affecting alpha3beta4. however as a dissoiative it´s another category then ibo. i heard when DXM is taken in combination with opiates you don´t get much psychedelic effects.
—————-
any corrections, explanations and further infos apprechiated
cheers
ekki
could you point to some sources
Am 22.12.2005 um 18:34 schrieb jon:
   Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has
   that much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of
   the research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas
   as the primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC
   is a structure located near the centre of the brain and is
   associated with the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this
   structure that is thought to be laregly responsible for mediating
   the reinforcing effects of drugs. When you take a drug such as
   cocaine or methamphetamine, it releases a rush of dopamine in the
   NAC, while reducing serotonin levels. Other drugs, such as opiates,
   cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine, barbiturates.. pretty much any
   other “fun” drug you can think of.. also increase dopamine and
   reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly.
   There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various
   other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which sends
   signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin.
   Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have
   the strongest reinforcing effects.
   There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in
   this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in
   the neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental
   area (VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal
   cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of
   the pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
   Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there
   it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations
   of serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs
   do). However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s
   anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system
   certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate
   addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic
   receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in
   addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA)
   interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to
   stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
   So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects
   through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But,
   most of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction)
   probably happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
   But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain
   neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4
   nicotinic receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that
   there is a transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This
   just isn’t something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on
   the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in
   sensorium.” While the cortex does play a role in memory formation,
   associating new memories with previously stored memories, the bulk
   of the brain’s work
   in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in
   the hippocampal region.
   It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one
   brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work
   together for just about everything the brain does.
       As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with
       my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non
       educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of
       more experienced people around here to really explain the
       process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the
       body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
       Ibogaine repair process – theory
       Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In
       my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block
       certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be
       partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity
       of Ibogaine in blood.
       As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the
       brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner
       structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration
       comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and
       memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly
       awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy
       simply has to go somewhere.
       Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as
       these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and
       demands to operate. This is the reset process.
       On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind
       of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more
       coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: Stop mailing
Date: December 23, 2005 at 12:06:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
you need to follow instructions for removal. Merry Christmas!
Callie
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 23, 2005 at 11:46:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hey Matt, glad to hear you have a plan! Can I ask how you came up with that dose range? The reason I asked is because the time I did ibogaine clean ,I needed so much less mg/kg. I am so with you in your idea about taking ibogaine for growth, I have been considering this as well,I’ve been chatting with my (experienced) therapist too,I’ll wait until my year birthdate in February.I was surprised how open minded some 12 steppers were , unfortunately not the one who was my sponsor at the time, her comment was,”sounds like you can get addicted to the cure”. I wish you & all on the list some sort of merry something,of your choosing ,& Matt I’ll be thinking of you on the 26th,love shell
Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..
Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.
You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
Date: December 23, 2005 at 10:16:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thanx for sending that Callie. Some interesting things in there. Sending you best wishes and hoping for a happy holiday for you down in Tenn.         Randy
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] neuromanticks (was:Ibogaine repair process – theory)
Date: December 23, 2005 at 9:39:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
hi jon, i´ve read that some recreational drugs, especially MDMA of course, but also amph/meth and to a lesser degree cocaine and nicotine raise levels of serotonine (i mean immediately and not in the long run), however i´m not sure in which region of the brain. could you please point to a paper that states that recreational drugs reduce serotonin?
Popik states “this alkaloid (ibogaine) can produce complex (and sometimes apparently opposite) effects on dopaminergic function.” btw it has been shown that SSRI´s can cause imbalance between dopaminergic and serotonergic systems and serotonin can use pathways of dopamin, too. anyway i asume that ibogaine maybe balances dopaminergic as well as serotonergic systems and their relationship to each other rather than just raising and lowering levels.
but since dopamin and serotonin can be regulated with other medications than ibogain but without any miraculous anti-addiction results the anti-addicitve properties might be perhaps more due to other stuff, too, like what you describe later on.
————
a professional recently told me he think that noribogaine by itself is NOT like THE killer, although having its positive effects. Glick with his research goes successfully into a totally different direction than the noribo theories. maybe Mash overemphasizes noribo because of her efforts to get a patent and also in the 90ties not much about other stuff (like GDNF etc.) was known.
(see in german: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibogain#Medizin_und_Pharmakologie and the appendant discussion page)
_________
are there any comments about DXM in relationship to ibo and opiates? DXM besides giving CEVs,too, also can lower tolerance against opiates affecting alpha3beta4. however as a dissoiative it´s another category then ibo. i heard when DXM is taken in combination with opiates you don´t get much psychedelic effects.
—————-
any corrections, explanations and further infos apprechiated
cheers
ekki
could you point to some sources
Am 22.12.2005 um 18:34 schrieb jon:
Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has that much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of the research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas as the primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC is a structure located near the centre of the brain and is associated with the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this structure that is thought to be laregly responsible for mediating the reinforcing effects of drugs. When you take a drug such as cocaine or methamphetamine, it releases a rush of dopamine in the NAC, while reducing serotonin levels. Other drugs, such as opiates, cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine, barbiturates.. pretty much any other “fun” drug you can think of.. also increase dopamine and reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly. There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which sends signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin. Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have the strongest reinforcing effects.
There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in the neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental area (VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of the pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations of serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs do). However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA) interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But, most of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction) probably happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that there is a transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This just isn’t something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium.” While the cortex does play a role in memory formation, associating new memories with previously stored memories, the bulk of the brain’s work
in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in the hippocampal region.
It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work together for just about everything the brain does.
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 23, 2005 at 7:03:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Thank you Jon, this is what I wanted to hear.
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Předmět: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Datum: 22.12.2005 18:36:27
—————————————-
Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has that
much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of the
research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas as the
primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC is a
structure located near the centre of the brain and is associated with
the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this structure that is
thought to be laregly responsible for mediating the reinforcing effects
of drugs. When you take a drug such as cocaine or methamphetamine, it
releases a rush of dopamine in the NAC, while reducing serotonin levels.
Other drugs, such as opiates, cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine,
barbiturates.. pretty much any other “fun” drug you can think of.. also
increase dopamine and reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly. There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which
sends signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin.
Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have the
strongest reinforcing effects.
There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in the
neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental area
(VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of the
pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations of
serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs do).
However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s
anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system
certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate
addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic
receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in
addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA)
interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to
stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects
through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But, most
of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction) probably
happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain
neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic
receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that there is a
transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This just isn’t
something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on the surface
there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium.” While
the cortex does play a role in memory formation, associating new
memories with previously stored memories, the bulk of the brain’s work
in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in the hippocampal region.
It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one
brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work
together for just about everything the brain does.
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory
and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area.
It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to
really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the
body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision,
when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within
the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on
amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s
hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and
therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are
imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly
awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go
somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are
not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the
reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment)
memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones
own life.
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 5:09:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
 Or,God gave us everything but time, Datas and agendas.
     or, God gave us everything?
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM
Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
  If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then
we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to
you and the kids………..Randy
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From: “Zohar M.” <zo@megfish.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Stop mailing
Date: December 24, 2005 at 5:24:59 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Haloo good day
S.V.P. move me from the list
Zo
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
Date: December 23, 2005 at 2:08:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
OI who you callin’ a addict??????????????
Oh, right, most of us…
heh
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2005 8:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
International Center Newsletter
thought some of you addicts might like to see this.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Check out International Center Newsletter
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:59:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
International Center Newsletter
thought some of you addicts might like to see this.
Callie
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine+ OT
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:51:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then
we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to
discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what
you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the
kids………..Randy
FROM
Harald Pinter speech,
 “When we look into a mirror we think the image that confronts us is
accurate. But
move a millimetre and the image changes. We are actually looking at a
never-ending range of reflections. But sometimes a writer has to smash the
mirror – for it is on the other side of that mirror that the truth stares
at us.
   I believe that despite the enormous odds which exist, unflinching,
unswerving,
fierce intellectual determination, as citizens, to define the real truth
of our
lives and our societies is a crucial obligation which devolves upon us
all. It
is in fact mandatory.
   If such a determination is not embodied in our political vision we
have no hope
of restoring what is so nearly lost to us – the dignity of man.”
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Question for Dr. Ed
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:48:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
MILK THISTLE plus all other blood cleansing liver friendly herbs.
Or Essiac.
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2005 5:59 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Question for Dr. Ed
Dr. Ed,
I really don’t know your credentials. Really specialty is a more fitting word but I have a question that maybe you could answer.
I have been seen by my Doc regarding this but she is clueless as to what is causing it but she admittedly does not know a lot about Methadone Maintenance and/or long term adverse reactions to Methadone.
I have been on Methadone 6 years and 10 months, so almost 7 years. I have Hepatitis C and it has not been treated, i.e., no Interferon or other medication therapies. My liver profile enzymes are always WNL. The only thing that was abnormal on last visit was a sed rate that was ordered because of Rheumatoid Arthritis symptoms I am displaying. My RA screen was negative though but my sed rate was quite elevated. sorry but I can’t remember results. All that may not be specific anyway.
My question is (FINALLY!!) The tops of my feet and my hands itch severely 2 or 3 times a week. I have no rash, no redness, no symptoms at all when itching except SEVERE itching. I have tried cortisone topically and Prednisone po, Dep-Medrol Dospak po, Atarax po, alcohol rubs, lotions, warm foot baths with and without Epsom Salts and nothing helped. Also take Benadryl 50 mg when I have episodes but it doesn’t help either.
The only thing that does halfway help and it helps only a few minutes is spraying them with the coldest water I can get out of faucet. I have used foot baths with ice water and that helps too but it is a hassle.
I have noticed some decreased sensation to cold temperature on top of my feet.
I do not have diabetes. Blood glucose is always WNL. I check it often because I have access to machine and have experienced 20 to 30 pound weight gain since starting Methadone.
I read your post about carbs and Methadone. Could that make my feet and hands itch?
I read on Internet in a couple of places where other people with hep C complained of same thing and the answer given them was increased bilirubin salts in skin. I am not jaundice now and have not been sine I contracted hep B 15 years ago.
Do you have any ideas?
Thanks and Peace to you!
Callie
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 23, 2005 at 1:40:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to
discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no
doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I
read what
you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the
kids………..Randy
Thanks Randy, same to you! Happy Holidays!
Sara
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Question for Dr. Ed
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:59:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dr. Ed,
I really don’t know your credentials. Really specialty is a more fitting word but I have a question that maybe you could answer.
I have been seen by my Doc regarding this but she is clueless as to what is causing it but she admittedly does not know a lot about Methadone Maintenance and/or long term adverse reactions to Methadone.
I have been on Methadone 6 years and 10 months, so almost 7 years. I have Hepatitis C and it has not been treated, i.e., no Interferon or other medication therapies. My liver profile enzymes are always WNL. The only thing that was abnormal on last visit was a sed rate that was ordered because of Rheumatoid Arthritis symptoms I am displaying. My RA screen was negative though but my sed rate was quite elevated. sorry but I can’t remember results. All that may not be specific anyway.
My question is (FINALLY!!) The tops of my feet and my hands itch severely 2 or 3 times a week. I have no rash, no redness, no symptoms at all when itching except SEVERE itching. I have tried cortisone topically and Prednisone po, Dep-Medrol Dospak po, Atarax po, alcohol rubs, lotions, warm foot baths with and without Epsom Salts and nothing helped. Also take Benadryl 50 mg when I have episodes but it doesn’t help either.
The only thing that does halfway help and it helps only a few minutes is spraying them with the coldest water I can get out of faucet. I have used foot baths with ice water and that helps too but it is a hassle.
I have noticed some decreased sensation to cold temperature on top of my feet.
I do not have diabetes. Blood glucose is always WNL. I check it often because I have access to machine and have experienced 20 to 30 pound weight gain since starting Methadone.
I read your post about carbs and Methadone. Could that make my feet and hands itch?
I read on Internet in a couple of places where other people with hep C complained of same thing and the answer given them was increased bilirubin salts in skin. I am not jaundice now and have not been sine I contracted hep B 15 years ago.
Do you have any ideas?
Thanks and Peace to you!
Callie
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:04:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Matt,
Sounds like you know what you need to do for yourself right.  I wish you a
healing and enlightening journey.
Brenda
On 12/22/05 5:16 PM, “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my
first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose
is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably
will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be
within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for
months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I
wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who
needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful
consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half
years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is
going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am
excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just
feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I
have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine
herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together
as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around
this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I
have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and
found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do
this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on
the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:46:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
or, God gave us everything?
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the kids………..Randy
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:41:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.
Imminent life and mind altering experiences seem to do that. Create anxiety, I mean..
Ibo seems to be on two tiers, the desparate to be cured, and the curator.
You go, Matty, don’t forget to write!!
Matthew Shriver wrote:
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:20:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/22/05 6:46:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
If there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves
Sara, you are beautiful. You have a way of putting things that leaves no doubt about your sincerity and how much you love mankind in general. I read what you write and try and soak it up like a sponge. Much love to you and the kids………..Randy
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Tee hee
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:04:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
       For my Democratic Friends:
“Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. We also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2006, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. By accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for herself or himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.”
For my Republican Friends:
Here’s wishing all of You a
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:44:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sorry, got lost in the discussion, forgot to look at the sender. Apologies, Patrick!!
Vector Vector wrote:
I think that was a joke Don, don’t think Patrick has any questions
about mind reconstruction or ibogaine 😉
.:vector:.
— Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Mind reconstruction, via sleep or Ibogaine.
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you
experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred
from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using
drugs.
That’s what I found among my significant dependent  patients.
Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes,  divorce, etc.,
etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had
sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Made a plan
Date: December 22, 2005 at 8:16:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well my next journey is set for next Monday, the 26th.  This will be my first time taking ibogaine without being opiate dependant. My planned dose is about 16mg/kg but I am considering raising it to 19mg/kg which I probably will do.  I don’t have a scale so my dose is estimated but it should be within a mg/kg or so.  I have been going back and forth on this decision for months, talking to everyone I know about it, and finally decided that I wanted to go ahead and do it.  I have a week off from work, and everyone who needs to know, knows my plan.
I have a surprising amount of anxiety around it.  The most powerful consciousness altering methods I have employed in the last two and a half years are exercise and eating a big meal on an empty stomach, so this is going to be pretty drastic compared to what I have become used to.  But I am excited too.  I have been wrestling with issues around depression and just feeling less than fulfilled in my life lately so I think this will help.  I have actually recently been in touch with a psychologist who did ibogaine herself a couple years ago and we plan on having our first session together as soon after my journey as I am able.
For those who are interested, I am not changing my NA clean date around this. I can reserve that option for later should I feel that I need to.  I have also shared that sentiment with a number of my close friends in NA and found a surprising amount of acceptance.  None of them think I should do this, but they are willing to support me and let me make my own decisions on the matter.
I’ll let you all know how it goes.
Matt
From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:34:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Tried that, I think it’s a browser setting. I’ve been spanked before for replying inline with an attachment included. Don’t blame him for turning it off.
marko@phantom.com wrote:
Gotta think about that theory for a while, I’ll down load it.  Dr. Ed
Hi Dr. Ed,
could you PLEASE just hit the reply button when you reply to a post, so
we’ll know what are you replying to?
Thank you,
Marko
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:26:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Ed, what do you think about Ambien?
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
I can recognize that sleep deprivation can stimulate creativity AND that can lead to certain insights, but I deal with pretty banged up people and we have to admit that most “dreaming” is either useless or confusing to the max.  There will become a compromise is our separate theories that will be especially enlightening!  Let’s hope!  Dr. Ed
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:12:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can recognize that sleep deprivation can stimulate creativity AND that can lead to certain insights, but I deal with pretty banged up people and we have to admit that most “dreaming” is either useless or confusing to the max.  There will become a compromise is our separate theories that will be especially enlightening!  Let’s hope!  Dr. Ed
From: Luke Christoffersen <luke.christoffersen@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 22, 2005 at 6:54:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It’s called Wild blue green algae.  It comes from lake Klamath in
California I think.
I tried taking half a pill.  It seemed to wake me up and give me more
energy but I felt more angry than happy.  Might be helpfull for
someone else, I seem to find anything energising triggers some
repressed anger in me very easily now.  I find this with other things
I’ve tried like fish oils and coQ10.
Luke
On 12/22/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
Luke, What is the name of this stuff? I could not see where you named it
other than blue-green algae supplement.
Callie
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 5:09:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda
and
the still suffering addict be damned.
what about all those sufferers?
Iboga could even help people suffering of Alzheimer’s disease.
Source: Daily Express
Date: 08/12/2003
Allan Rose of GlaxoSmithKline, the pharmaceutical company, claims that
billions of pounds a year are wasted on prescription drugs that offer no
benefit to most patients. Dr Rose, the worldwide vice president of
genetics at GSK, said less than half of patients prescribed expensive
drugs actually benefited from the treatments. He said that drugs for
Alzheimer’s disease work on less than a third of sufferers, and cancer
medication is effective on only a quarter of patients. This news may prove
to be disheartening for many patients who rely heavily on pharmaceuticals
and put all their faith in them. This story is covered by most of today’s
papers.
not only that , 75% of all sicknesses have no allopathic Medicine.
80% of all allopathic treatments do not work and or don’t have enough
scientific evidence that they do work.
I have no scientific prove but I think that all those African tribes who
use Iboga for healing and rituals don’t suffer of Alzheimer’s disease.
I think that Dr. Mash could make much more money if she will invest more
time for research that can help suffering people who can’t get dope
for their pain, and then she will not feel that someone is causing
that”death for us”.
if there is a shamanic side to the idea of working with ibogaine then we
should not forget that Iboga and other plants are given to us to discover
in what ways
it can help us to feel better with ourselves.
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 22, 2005 at 5:08:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well you type my name into a search engine and you get nothing and thats just the way I like it. I said spicifically that I DID NOT want my name published and “they” did it anyway. I’m not sure what to think. I doubt Dana would do that without my permission, but who knows. I know I will in someway be involved with Ibogaine forever on some level but I would prefer to stay out of the freakin news papers. Please all of you keep a good thought that not too many people read the village voice and put two and two together remember it has only been 9 months and not too many people see that as being much of an accomplishment in the “straight” world. -mark Cochran or whatever there calling me these days. Ugh!
From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 10:42:17 -0800 (PST)
>
>You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
>those quotes and names 😉
>
>Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how anybody
>who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you type
>their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
>heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
>middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
>
>If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own problem 😉
>I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
>Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t get
>a job anymore.
>
>.:vector:.
>
>— Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>———————————
>
>It would have been nice if someone told me that they were going to use
>a quote and include my name. I think thats a total violation of my
>privacy without concent and I’m completely pissed off. My life isn’t
>ALL about Ibogaine anymore even though I owe my life to Iboga and the
>people who helped me I have moved passed being involved in it 24/7 and
>have asperations that could be seriously effected by my name being
>printed in the fucking Village Voice in a story of Heroin addiction and
>Ibogaine. How professional! I guess I have no recourse, do I?
>
>
>
>
>
>———————————
>
>From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
>Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
> >ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her
>some
> >credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
> >collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
> >
> >No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
> >words and Frank Vocci.
> >
> >Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
> >
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
> >
> >Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
> >
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
> >
> >Clinical Trials start again in the US
> >
> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
> >
> >I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account
>right
> >Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
> >have one now?
> >
> >.:vector:.
> >
> >— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
> > > relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
> > > ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
> > > disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
> > > else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like
>she
> > > claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
> > > she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
> > > gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the
>start
> > > of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you
>do
> > > know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
> > > Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
> > > disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
> > > isn’t
> > > rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her
>in
> > > the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
> > > NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
> > >
> > > KV
> > >
> > > On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > “These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
> > > > the death of us.”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
> > > agenda and
> > > > the still suffering addict be damned.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> > > > [%]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > > >
> > >
> >\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>———————————
>  Make FREE PC-to-PC calls with MSN Messenger.  Get it now!
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>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
>http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
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>
>
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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 4:17:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Not really, you’re reading too many press releases. The only thing dr. mash is trying to bridge is her bank account and rich drug addicts. Kindness and forgiveness is usually given people who are kind and forgiving, all mash ever does is spread fear and lies.
— On Thu 12/22, Edfriedrichs@aol.com < Edfriedrichs@aol.com > wrote:
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto: Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:24:53 EST
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
To be kind and forgiving, Dr. Deborah Mash IS trying to bridge the gaping abyss between the NIH/DEA and you guys, between obsessive/compulsive science and creative artistry, probably between science and religion!  She does describe herself as a “neuroshammanist.”  Dr. Ed
_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way  your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 3:24:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To be kind and forgiving, Dr. Deborah Mash IS trying to bridge the gaping abyss between the NIH/DEA and you guys, between obsessive/compulsive science and creative artistry, probably between science and religion!  She does describe herself as a “neuroshammanist.”  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 3:17:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I can accept those as facts.  95% of what docs hand out are “symptomatic” “drugs,” we have very few real “medicines” at our disposal, e.g. antibiotics.  Anti-cancer drugs MIGHT be medicines, but they are really cellular killers.  Americans are eager to have their symptoms suppressed, so that they can continue their hell-bent-for-election wild behavior of excitement and recreation.  Little do they realize that the underlying disease  continues to do it’s dirty work, because drugs don’t get at the cause.  In fact, most symptoms are ways in which the body itself is trying to conquer the disease, e.g. fever, congestion, inflammation, pain (to put the body at rest), swelling, heat, runny noses, coughing, diarrhea, vomiting…..all good ways of handling the offending agent.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 3:07:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
That’s what I thought you meant, it creates a total lack of sensory input, sight, hearing, touch, smell and taste, which quite promptly creates hallucinations.  Appar-ently the brain depends upon “INPUT” from the outside world to remain focused/sane, very interesting phenomena.  I would suppose nobody has stayed in the tank for eight to ten hours as is described with Ibogaine.  But I really don’t know that research.  Dr. Ed
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:44:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
STOP IT.
sheesh, are you high or something?
if so, share.
if not, KILL YOURSELF.
thanx!
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:42:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
You could register a complaint with the Dana Beal Show which hands out
those quotes and names 😉
Be glad they spelled your name wrong. I do sometimes wonder how anybody
who is really involved with ibogaine will ever get uninvolved, you type
their name into a search engine and nothing but pages and pages of
heroin and ibogaine, except Patrick of course who has that in the
middle of pages and pages of the hacker underground too.
If on the other hand you talked to them then that’s your own problem 😉
I guess it’s still your problem no matter who did it, sucks to be you.
Ask Dana to support you for the rest of your life because you can’t get
a job anymore.
.:vector:.
— Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:
———————————
It would have been nice if someone told me that they were going to use
a quote and include my name. I think thats a total violation of my
privacy without concent and I’m completely pissed off. My life isn’t
ALL about Ibogaine anymore even though I owe my life to Iboga and the
people who helped me I have moved passed being involved in it 24/7 and
have asperations that could be seriously effected by my name being
printed in the fucking Village Voice in a story of Heroin addiction and
Ibogaine. How professional! I guess I have no recourse, do I?
———————————
From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her
some
credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
words and Frank Vocci.
Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
Clinical Trials start again in the US
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account
right
Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
have one now?
.:vector:.
— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like
she
claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the
start
of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you
do
know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
isn’t
rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her
in
the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
KV
On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:35:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I think that was a joke Don, don’t think Patrick has any questions
about mind reconstruction or ibogaine 😉
.:vector:.
— Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net> wrote:
Mind reconstruction, via sleep or Ibogaine.
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you
experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred
from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using
drugs.
That’s what I found among my significant dependent  patients.
Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes,  divorce, etc.,
etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had
sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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__________________________________________
Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine- Pissed off!!!
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:33:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It would have been nice if someone told me that they were going to use a quote and include my name. I think thats a total violation of my privacy without concent and I’m completely pissed off. My life isn’t ALL about Ibogaine anymore even though I owe my life to Iboga and the people who helped me I have moved passed being involved in it 24/7 and have asperations that could be seriously effected by my name being printed in the fucking Village Voice in a story of Heroin addiction and Ibogaine. How professional! I guess I have no recourse, do I?
From:  Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject:  Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date:  Thu, 22 Dec 2005 08:03:01 -0800 (PST)
>
>Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
>ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her some
>credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
>collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
>
>No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
>words and Frank Vocci.
>
>Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
>
>Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
>
>Clinical Trials start again in the US
>
>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
>
>I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account right
>Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
>have one now?
>
>.:vector:.
>
>— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
> > relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
> > ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
> > disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
> > else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like she
> > claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
> > she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
> > gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the start
> > of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you do
> > know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
> > Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
> > disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
> > isn’t
> > rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her in
> > the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
> > NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
> >
> > KV
> >
> > On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > “These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
> > > the death of us.”
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
> > agenda and
> > > the still suffering addict be damned.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > [%]
> > >
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> > >
> >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
> >
> >
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
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>
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:18:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Personally, I don’t think sleep restriction by itself has any beneficial
effect. It’s more that restricting early morning REM and putting yourself
into a cathartic process, whether that be emotional release or jogging or
whatever, has benefit.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: František Hrdý [mailto:fanyz@seznam.cz]
Sent: 22 December 2005 10:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
This seems contradictious to me. My GF is depressive sometimes. I
prescribed her lot of sleep, because it seemed to me it comes
only when she did not have enough and later it proved to be true.
She usually sleeps 6 hours a day and she’s little depressive all
the time. But on weekends she has more time to sleep and then her
mood goes well. Different it is with me. I’m a little
manic-depressive too, but the depression comes from nowhere (from
self-penitence?) and I learned to overcome it wittingly.
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od:  <Edfriedrichs@aol.com>
Předmět: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Datum: 21.12.2005 01:51:34
—————————————-
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY
briefly.  Sleep
depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can
emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming
that sleep/REM
deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love
a “high.”  And
lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired”
(lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you
feel later in the
day,
once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking
for, steady
relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep
impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can
gravitate toward drug
dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating
toward alcohol
and absinthe).  Dr. ED
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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:17:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Mind reconstruction, via sleep or Ibogaine.
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you  experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred  from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using  drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent  patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes,  divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had  sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:14:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Ed,
I recognize the truth in what you are saying. For me the jury is still out though. I’m not convinced either way. I still immense benefit in therapy in using sleep deprivation, whether low level like this, or more with marathons going on several days. I also note just how many people report sleep problems post-ibogaine and can’t help feeling that the drug is trying to lead the individual to greater levels of release and awareness.
Nick
—–Original Message—–
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com [mailto:Edfriedrichs@aol.com]
Sent: 21 December 2005 00:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick:
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY briefly.  Sleep depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming that sleep/REM deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love a “high.”  And lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired” (lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you feel later in the day, once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking for, steady relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can gravitate toward drug dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating toward alcohol and absinthe).  Dr. ED
From: marko@phantom.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 1:13:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Gotta think about that theory for a while, I’ll down load it.  Dr. Ed
Hi Dr. Ed,
could you PLEASE just hit the reply button when you reply to a post, so
we’ll know what are you replying to?
Thank you,
Marko
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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 12:34:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, I don’t think the “surface of the brain”, or neo-cortex, has that much to do with the anti-addictive effects of ibogaine. Most of the research points to the nucleus accumbens (NAC) and related areas as the primary sites of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. The NAC is a structure located near the centre of the brain and is associated with the so-called “pleasure-reward” circuit. It is this structure that is thought to be laregly responsible for mediating the reinforcing effects of drugs. When you take a drug such as cocaine or methamphetamine, it releases a rush of dopamine in the NAC, while reducing serotonin levels. Other drugs, such as opiates, cannabis, benzos, alcohol, nicotine, barbiturates.. pretty much any other “fun” drug you can think of.. also increase dopamine and reduce serotoninin production in the NAC, but do so indirectly. There’s a chain of neurons that decend from the NAC and the various other drugs activate different points on this pathway, which sends signals up to the NAC, releasing dopamine and reducing serotonin. Because cocaine and meth affect the NAC directly, they often have the strongest reinforcing effects.
There are a number of other brain areas that are also involved in this pleasure-reward circuit and are also thought to be involved in the neural basis of addiction. These include the ventral tagmental area (VTA), locus correleus, amygdala, hippocampus, and pre-frontal cortex, among others. All of these stuctures, with the exception of the pre-frontal cortex, are found in the mid-brain.
Anyhow, the NAC is one of ibogaine’s primary sites of action; there it reduces concentrations of dopamine and increases concentrations of serotonin (i.e., the opposite of what most recreational drugs do). However, this is probably not the only source of ibogaine’s anti-addictive effects. Ibogaine’s effects on the opioid system certainly play a role, particularly in people recovering from opiate addiction. Ibogaine also blocks NMDA receptors and α3β4 nicotinic receptors, both of which are also neurotransmitters implicated in addiction. For example, NMDA antagonists (drugs that block NMDA) interfere with sensitization, tolerance, and dependence related to stimulant, alcohol, benzodiazepine, barbiturate, and opiate use.
So, in summary, ibogaine probably exerts its anti-addictive effects through interaction with a number of neurotransmitter systems. But, most of this (at least the parts important to treating addiction) probably happens in the mid-brain, rather than at the brain’s surface.
But you are right in a sense that ibogaine works by blocking certain neural transmissions, for example, by blocking NMDA and α3β4 nicotinic receptors. Where your theory fails is suggesting that there is a transfer of energy from the mid-brain to the cortex. This just isn’t something that the brain does. Also, you mention that “on the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium.” While the cortex does play a role in memory formation, associating new memories with previously stored memories, the bulk of the brain’s work
in memory appears to happen in the mid-brain, more specifically in the hippocampal region.
It’s also important to remember that for any given function, no one brain structure is responsible. Rather, many parts of the brain work together for just about everything the brain does.
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:05:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
On Dec 20, 2005, at 10:01 PM, jon wrote:
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes, divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
Ed…  What is this sleep thing you’re talking ’bout…?
Patrick
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:32:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dude there’s no need to act like a retard, sign yourself off the list
you signed yourself on, the clue is at the bottom of every message on
the list.
.:vector:.
— Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:30:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com sned a blank email there
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list plsRe: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:35:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Are you dense??  Just unsubscribe, seein as you subscribed yourself… ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com  send a fuckin email there you idiot, it will unsubscribe you…
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:27:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Just send a blank email with unsubscribe as the subject, and I believe that will do it for ya…
Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
remove from the list pls
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:26:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
František Hrdý wrote:
This seems contradictious to me. My GF is depressive sometimes. I prescribed her lot of sleep, because it seemed to me it comes only when she did not have enough and later it proved to be true. She usually sleeps 6 hours a day and she’s little depressive all the time. But on weekends she has more time to sleep and then her mood goes well. Different it is with me. I’m a little manic-depressive too, but the depression comes from nowhere (from self-penitence?) and I learned to overcome it wittingly.
There’s a big difference between short term sleep deprivation and long term sleep deprivation.
That is, if someone who is depressed stays up all night, they’re gonna feel a bit better the next day. But if someone consistently gets less sleep than they need, they’ll get depressed.
I’m not sure if anyone has ever come up with a good explanation of why either one happens, but there’s pretty consistent evidence of both phenomena.
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From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:26:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dude!  Seriously!  No need to be an asshole and spam the whole list like that.  You got yourself on this list after all.
Follow this link:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com [mailto:Tbgelfling@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 9:19 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list plsRe: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:23:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:20:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:19:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:18:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:18:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:17:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:17:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:16:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
remove from the list pls
From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] remove from the list pls Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:15:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
pls tell me how to get off this email list
In a message dated 12/22/2005 11:06:17 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 11:03:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Superfreak not going to call you cutie like everything female that’s
ever met you does 😉 ok you’re cute 😉 🙂 and to at least give her some
credit Mash let’s her son 😉 run the biggest “underground” ibogaine
collective in the world 😉 but for real this is a broken record.
No underground rants, nobody else putting words in her mouth, her own
words and Frank Vocci.
Data going to FDA “next month” in 2004 😉
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/KRON-Ibogaine.html
Frank Vocci from NIDA on Mash
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Media/Science.html
Clinical Trials start again in the US
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/News/2005COSM.html
I don’t suppose this is a good time to ask for a @mindvox account right
Patrick? 😉 I’ve been asking for more then 4 years so why not, can I
have one now?
.:vector:.
— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like she
claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the start
of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you do
know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who
isn’t
rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her in
the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
KV
On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her
agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:53:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
No offense to you Patrick, I know you and Mash have your own
relationship and she helped you a lot and what you’ve done for
ibogaine and do for everyone with this forum is a lot! but this is
disgusting. Everything is always about Mash and her agenda, nothing
else matters. If her agenda was science and helping addicts like she
claims that would be great, but nothing is ever published, the data
she said was going to the FDA in Feb or March of 2004, still hasn’t
gone, she got $250,000 more in funding for her US trials at the start
of this year and you announced that at the ibogaine forum but you do
know it’s almost a year later and she hasn’t even started those.
Sorry, everything is all about selling her over priced treatment,
disrespecting everyone else and doing nothing to help anyone who isn’t
rich, If i remember it right even Frank Vocci from NIDA dissed her in
the Science article saying he has no idea what she’s doing because
NIDA or the FDA have never seen anything.
KV
On 12/22/05, Matthew Shriver <matt@itsupport.net> wrote:
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:41:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda
and
the still suffering addict be damned.
what about all those sufferers?
Iboga could even help people suffering of Alzheimer’s disease.
Source: Daily Express
Date: 08/12/2003
Allan Rose of GlaxoSmithKline, the pharmaceutical company, claims that
billions of pounds a year are wasted on prescription drugs that offer no
benefit to most patients. Dr Rose, the worldwide vice president of
genetics at GSK, said less than half of patients prescribed expensive
drugs actually benefited from the treatments. He said that drugs for
Alzheimer’s disease work on less than a third of sufferers, and cancer
medication is effective on only a quarter of patients. This news may prove
to be disheartening for many patients who rely heavily on pharmaceuticals
and put all their faith in them. This story is covered by most of today’s
papers.
not only that , 75% of all sicknesses have no allopathic Medicine.
80% of all allopathic treatments do not work and or don’t have enough
scientific evidence that they do work.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:29:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Floating tank is special tank filled with fluid. It’s dark and soundproof. If person stays there long enough, he gets in deep relaxing, REM and later hallucinations. Some explanations say that person gets to same status as in uterus before birth.
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:16:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Gotta think about that theory for a while, I’ll down load it.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:21:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m wondering whether the DEA/FBI/CIA used the “Patriot Act” to wire-tap inside the USA to “catch” the Wyoming couple…….?  Doesn’t really sound like “terrorism” to me!  Dr. Ed
From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:22:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
I love this quote.  Because of course it’s all about her and her agenda and
the still suffering addict be damned.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:13:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
REM-Sleep MUST do some sort of “chemical” repair of the brain, that’s the way the brain is built.  Good suggestion if the hallucinatory experiences of “total sensory de-privation” would mimic ibogaine. (Is that what you mean by “tank?”  Do you know whether that has ever been tried.  Most “scientists” are scared as hell of hallucinosis, not imaging that anything good can come of it.  You Ibogaine experimentists know better.  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 10:07:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Our “temperaments” are difference, we usually fall for someone with a contrasting temperament.  Folks with “so-called” manic-depressive tendencies (the term is used a bit too widely these days, IMO), may feel “better” with less sleep (temporarily), and worse while catching up on sleep, which may take quite a while.  That seems contradictory, but m-ds have great difficulty truly “catching-up” on the REM-sleep they need, they awaken during REM with bursts of mental energy, which interrupts REM-replacement which never really “catches-up.”  If Ibogaine “catches” folks up on REM-Sleep, it might be especially helpful for those with so-called Manic-depressive genetics/brain function.  “Normal” people experience feeling worse with less sleep and better with more sleep.  Sound familiar?  Dr. Ed
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] village voice ibogaine
Date: December 22, 2005 at 9:52:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Same story, one more time. I know another ibogaine article, but
sometimes I wonder if the peeps writing these don’t read the last 5 and
re write the same thing the 6th time.
.:vector:.
http://villagevoice.com/people/0551,hunter,71171,24.html
A Wyoming couple was jailed recently on federal charges of conspiracy
to import ibogaine—an illegal hallucinogenic drug reputed to be a
miracle cure for addiction—sending a wave through the so-called
ibogaine underground.
According to a DEA agent’s affidavit, Jack and Karen Hout spilled the
beans about their plans to smuggle the drug from Switzerland to Wyoming
via their condo in Belize when the feds raided their Wyoming home
December 2.
Until now, many ibogaine true believers (some of whom operate covert
“addict self-help clinics” in Brooklyn, Miami, San Francisco, and
elsewhere) assumed powder made from the Tabernanthe iboga plant fell
below law enforcement’s radar. But the U.S. Drug Enforcement
Administration calls it a Schedule I controlled substance, and the
Houts could face up to 20 years in prison if convicted in one of the
first ibogaine conspiracy busts in decades.
The legend of ibogaine begins centuries ago with the root of a
flowering West African rainforest shrub, chewed by traditional game
hunters to help maintain perfect stillness as they wait for prey.
Fast-forward to ’60s New York, where college student and self-described
recreational heroin user Howard Lotsof gets freebie capsules from a
chemist friend. He swallows one, and to his amazement 48 hours later,
his brain is washed clean of desire for any drug whatsoever.
The DEA bans the hallucinogen, but 20 years later enterprising Lotsof
hooks up with fellow enthusiasts in the Netherlands and introduces the
drug to people who want to get clean. He reports many successes:
Patients detox in a matter of days, without painful withdrawal
symptoms. And then there’s the bonus—one last high. Boosters say the
approximately 48 hours under iboga’s spell are spent in a dreamlike
state (or nightmarish state, depending on the individual) resulting in
greater insight into one’s problems.
Lotsof teamed up with respected neurologist Deborah Mash of the
University of Miami: He supplied the ibogaine, she did the science.
Serious concerns about ibogaine’s safety and arguments over patents
caused the two to split, but 10 months ago Mash got the money she
needed to resume clinical studies on her own. Lotsof says he is
currently involved with top-secret ibogaine projects himself.
That the illegal drug is years from FDA approval has done nothing to
inhibit the proliferation of makeshift ibogaine treatment
centers—sometimes just a borrowed apartment or motel room—across the
country. Brooklyn is ground zero, but in the past few years what
boosters call “the movement” has spread westward.
Longtime advocate and legendary yippie Dana Beal is co-sponsoring an
ibogaine conference with Columbia University’s chapter of Students for
Sensible Drug Policy in February to spread the gospel to students
almost young enough to be his grandkids. Tyler Case, a neuroscience and
behavior major helping to organize the teach-in, calls the self-help
movement a “compassionate system” that more people should be able to
take advantage of.
“People just don’t know about it. You go to the methadone clinic and
they’ve never heard about it,” says Mark Cochran, a 28-year-old former
heroin addict and satisfied ibogaine user. Nine months ago, he says a
clandestine drug treatment team in Brooklyn cured his heroin addiction
at the cost of about a thousand bucks.
Testimonials like his do not please researcher Mash any more than news
of the Wyoming conspiracy bust—she says she fears for the health of
people who use ibogaine outside a clinical setting. She also dreads the
damage bad PR generated by well-meaning self-helpers could do to future
funding. “These people are desperate,” she says. “They’re going to be
the death of us.”
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 8:30:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Well, to add here:
It doesn’t really explain whole thing. It seems like Ibogaine plays some chemical role here too. If all this was true, one could simply get to floating tank for few hours and get rid of addiction the same way.
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From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine repair process – theory
Date: December 22, 2005 at 8:22:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
As no one gave me satisfactory answer on this, I will come with my own theory and please get it right; it’s just a THEORY of non educated mind in this area. It is meant to unleash discussion of more experienced people around here to really explain the process. Note that since I’m computer engineer, I look at the body and brain as to sophisticated computer.
Ibogaine repair process – theory
Usually on awaken state everything happens inside the brain. In my vision, when Ibogaine hits the body, it’s trying to block certain transmissions within the neurons. This process may be partially defended or overcome depending on amount and intensity of Ibogaine in blood.
As the greatest concentration of neurons is on surface of the brain and it’s hard to block all transmissions here, all inner structures are subdued and therefore all energy concentration comes on surface. On the surface there are imagination and memory fields positioned in sensorium. These are being strongly awaked as body energetic potential remains the same and energy simply has to go somewhere.
Now, inside brain may switch to the rapid recovery process as these parts are not being bothered with different tasks and demands to operate. This is the reset process.
On psychical level this energy shift helps to reorganize (kind of defragment) memory and consciousness and gives the brain more coherent understanding of ones own life.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 22, 2005 at 7:09:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I’m trying my best to have a happy holiday. It aint easy. I see choas and mayhem evrywhere I look. I see addicts who hate doing what they are doing and can’t stop. I see young people becoming addicts with no clue as to what will happen to them when they get to the point where they are addicted and can’t stop. I see all this shit and try my best to help, and sometimes I actually do. Then I read the note that Jeff sends and I cry. I cry because I know him and Rachy, and they have been good friends. I cry because I guess it feels good to do so. I can feel all the feelings that I used to run from. I met Jeff two weeks after I did my session and he was still on the ‘done. I remember thinking that he looks so normal and acts so normal, was I like that on the ‘done? NAAAAAAAA I was a fuckin’ mess. I’d say that he felt the same way as I did, I just couldn’t see it. By the way Jeff, thanx for showin’ me how to use the subways. I wish they were running now because I’m headed your way and I can’t imagine that city without subways and busses. I guess I’m gonna find out how to get around without them. Walking, what a concept! Anyway it’s been a hell of a year. I’ve done things that I never imagined I’d do. I’ve been to some really cool places and I’ve talked about Ibogaine with a lot of cool people who seemed really interested. I’ve also talked to some assholes who pissed all over it. The quest will continue. I think today that I’m gonna make myself feel some holiday spirit. I’ve got a gig to play tonight and maybe when I do my Ibogaine song someone will actually hear what the fuck I’m singin’ about and at least ask me about the hippo’s making fun of my face. I’ve heard people say “cool chords man, or did you really write that?” But not once has anybody asked me what Ibogaine is. O well, I play in bars and what do you expect from a drunk person anyway? When I do Jelly Roll Blues I’m gonna think about yall when I do it. “I said stoop down baby, stoop down and let me see, somebody told me you got sumpthin’ under neeth there baby, and it’s worrying the hell outta me” I love you all     Happy Holidays        Randy
From: František Hrdý <fanyz@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 5:10:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This seems contradictious to me. My GF is depressive sometimes. I prescribed her lot of sleep, because it seemed to me it comes only when she did not have enough and later it proved to be true. She usually sleeps 6 hours a day and she’s little depressive all the time. But on weekends she has more time to sleep and then her mood goes well. Different it is with me. I’m a little manic-depressive too, but the depression comes from nowhere (from self-penitence?) and I learned to overcome it wittingly.
———— Původní zpráva ————
Od:  <Edfriedrichs@aol.com>
Předmět: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Datum: 21.12.2005 01:51:34
—————————————-
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY briefly.  Sleep
depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can
emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming that sleep/REM
deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love a “high.”  And
lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired”
(lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you feel later in the
day,
once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking for, steady
relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep
impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can gravitate toward drug
dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating toward alcohol
and absinthe).  Dr. ED
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Edema from methadone:
Date: December 22, 2005 at 12:09:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Methadone, like all opiates, are sedatives and ruin the quality of sleep.  You may sleep, but the sleep doesn’t do you as much good as undrugged sleep does.  This  Sleep deprivation leads to sugar/carbo craving to “wake up” and keep moving and the Carbo excess causes Insulin excess (sometimes insulin resistance = adult diabetes) and insulin causes the kidneys to hang onto salt (and water) producing edema (swelling).  Avoiding salt doesn’t really work, you have to avoid excess carbohydrates to get rid of the swelling, OR catch up on good sleep quality, OR BOTH.  My biggest concern re all of you is “Can you get the sleep quality you need and deserve.”  If not we’ve got to find an answer to that.  One has to look at all the Alternative Medicine procedures…….Do they improve sleep quality and quantity.  Meditation can, Acu-puncture can, so probably massage therapy too, etc.,etc.  I may sound like a broken record, but it is incredible how much our society neglects sleep.  You show me a person who has broken down, and I’ll find 6-12 months of sleep deprivation BEFORE they broke. Dr. Ed
From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 7:46:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yes yes yes!
Bloated- man i had such edema in my legs i could press my fingers in and leave a dent…weird! When i showed my Dr at the clinic she swore it had nothing to do with the methadone.
I am still lazy but I see now how completely unmotivated i was…I amstill working on that but it is way way better
I gave up sugar spontaneously about 5mos ago…i have lost almost 40 lbs since i did Ibo  not even trying…
Methadone kept me fat lazy bloated unmotivated and the worst part was it didn’t present as obvious ,a subtle demon drug for sure. (not that i don’t see it’s place in the grand scheme of addiction treatment) but if i was dreaming up a citizen control method it would be at the top of the list. Keep em unmotivated and two credit card payments behind that’s what they want for us folks!
anyway go for it Callie
FF
Jeff
On 12/21/05, CallieMimosa@aol.com <CallieMimosa@aol.com> wrote:
WOW!! Those are my words and thoughts exactly! I have been doubting those thoughts lately though.
When I look at myself, I feel I look addicted.
Compared to how I looked before Methadone, I now look bloated and unhealthy.
I am very lazy and do not exercise.
I eat junk food…….
Basically I lack motivation to begin the steps I need to take to lose weight and stop Methadone.
I am going to try to make it a New Years Resolution to try Ibogaine
Jeff, thanks for your post and way to go!
       “That we can share our experiences and show others that there is hope, that tho not       easy the Ibo route works still blows my mind everyday…
Freak Freely and Free!!”
Your words quoted above do give me hope and I thank you!
Hope you and yours have a magical Holiday Season!
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Anyone tried this strange Wild blue-green algae supplement?
Date: December 21, 2005 at 7:45:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Luke, What is the name of this stuff? I could not see where you named it other than blue-green algae supplement.
Callie
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT- Reply to Captkirk-Check out Macabre Santa display in NYC draws stares
Date: December 21, 2005 at 7:34:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Macabre Santa display in NYC draws stares – Peculiar Postings – MSNBC.com
hahahahahahaha!!!! How about this one? I Love their imaginations! Why not?
Callie
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Geezzz Randyyyyyy ya billhilly!!!!
Date: December 21, 2005 at 5:16:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Yehh geezzzz Randyyyyyyyyy!!! What are ya?? Lol
It’s all good……..the silly season is upon us.  I for one can’t wait for it to go away!!  I just want to go into the hills and commune with nature while the Santa Satanists squeeze every last cent out of the people and the turkey’s tremble in their pens and….
Ok it’s early, I’ll stop now…
Lol
Kirk xxxxxxxx
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2005 5:16 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling
It was a mistake, I’m soooooooory. I didn’t mean to piss you off, I was trying to add some levity to the list. I try and do that from time to time. It was a joke. I will from this day forward try and get the names right. There are a lot of new people here, (which I am very grateful for) and it is hard to keep it all straight. I still expect somebody to make an extarct from this algae tho. I’m just a dum ‘ol cuntry boi hoo kant spill rite so forgive me.    Randy
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 4:47:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
In a message dated 12/21/2005 2:38:22 PM Central Standard Time, jeffgallop@gmail.com writes:
I truly believed at that time and even before that being a methadone patient was okay that it was like being a diabetic and it was my insulin, an analogy I used for many years. I was so wrong.
WOW!! Those are my words and thoughts exactly! I have been doubting those thoughts lately though.
When I look at myself, I feel I look addicted.
Compared to how I looked before Methadone, I now look bloated and unhealthy.
I am very lazy and do not exercise.
I eat junk food…….
Basically I lack motivation to begin the steps I need to take to lose weight and stop Methadone.
I am going to try to make it a New Years Resolution to try Ibogaine
Jeff, thanks for your post and way to go!
       “That we can share our experiences and show others that there is hope, that tho not       easy the Ibo route works still blows my mind everyday…
Freak Freely and Free!!”
Your words quoted above do give me hope and I thank you!
Hope you and yours have a magical Holiday Season!
Callie
From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 4:28:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Dear Jeff,
That’s a great story.  Thank you for sharing it.
I also want to express my deep gratitude to the people that are doing this
work.  I’ve been able to face incredibly difficult situations in the past
month (mostly fallout from years of being in a fog) since my session that I
never would have been able since my “reset.”
(Yes, Ibogaine did return me to a pre-addictive state, as far as my brain
and body are concerned).
I just got sent back from the border in Mexico because they changed their
policy on what documents are accepted to enter the country (my passport was
delayed and the passport people have my birth certificate).
I think I would have had a nervous breakdown before my session.  This
morning I actually FELT my FEELINGS and cried for a bout 2 hours.  Then I
did normal things like unpack my suitcase.
Wow.
Happy holidays to all,
Brenda
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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] venting!!!
Date: December 21, 2005 at 4:10:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
This transit strike is a disaster! I’m gonna need another session just to work out my anger by the time this is over. Stuck in Brooklyn with no smoke. Could be worse I could be strung out or on a program. Thanks Howard. -m.
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD VANDU alert #1
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:20:20 EST
I am forwarding this message and pdf attachment from the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users as they are having some problems with the police.
Howard
Begin forwarded message:
From: Ann Livingston <annlive@direct.ca>
Date: December 11, 2005 4:45:06 PM EST
Subject: VANDU alert
North America’s first and only sanctioned supervised injection site operation is being undermined with a misinformation campaign and direct harassment by the Vancouver Police Department (VPD)
The Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users (VANDU) has held two protest rallies to support the supervised injection site, Insite, and to criticize the inappropriate police actions.  The staff and administration at Insite has so far remained silent as have the researchers and public health officials.
Recently the VPD announced a crackdown on drug users using drugs in public stating that they are “supporting users to use Insite” but in fact they have flooded the 2 blocks surrounding the injection facility with plain clothes officers and uniformed officers on foot and on horseback and are arresting anyone know to be holding or using drugs.
In addition, the police have reversed a 2 year agreement to not attend at nonfatal drug overdoses and when they attend at the rare overdoses at Insite they have checked other drug users using in the site for warrants.
Most disturbing is news of undercover officers posing as drug users and entering the injection facility.  When spotted by VANDU members they are being harassed and loudly asked if they are police officers.  So far there has been no violence and the VPD has unofficially accused the “drug squad” of this activity so the RCMP may be also involved.
This sudden reversal of police policy violates a verbal agreement that was hammered out with the VPD two years ago at the opening of Insite specifically that police are to go into the supervised injection facility only when called to come by Insite staff  or in “hot pursuit” of a perp who runs into the facility to hide.
The supervised injection site has the capacity to supervise less than 5% of the injections taking place in the downtown east side (DTES) a 10 block area of Vancouver. The site is working at capacity with 700 injections per day out of an estimated 15,000 injections per day taking place in a ten block area of Vancouver’s downtown eastside.  The DTES is home to 12,000 people of whom 5,000 are people who use illicit drugs.
The site will not allow folks who smoke their H or C into the site to smoke even though the facility has a room set up for inhalation
The site will not allow assisted injections even if the person is blind or an amputee so these folks have been using in public all along and the additional police action will cause even more dangerous conditions for them causing rushed injections in filthy alleys etc
The Canadian HIV AIDS Legal Network has written a letter to Vancouver’s new mayor Sam Sullivan urging him to act to end the destructive and heavy handed actions of the police.  We urge others to send similar letters.  Their letter is posted on their web site and attached.
Just Say No to the War on Drug Users
love and solidarity
Ann
Ann Livingston    cell 604 719 5313
Executive Program Director
Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users
VANDU
50 East Hastings St.
Vancouver BC V6A 1N1
604 683 6061
fax 604 683 6199
><< LetterMayorSullivan.pdf >>
>
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From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Happy Holidays
Date: December 21, 2005 at 2:31:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hello all
 I wanted to wish everyone on this very special list a very happy Holiday season. when i found this list the prospect of actually doing Ibogaine to help rid me of my methadone habit of so many years seemed no more than a dream, well now it is more than a year since i drank that last bottle and I can not believe it!
It was not easy!! The months post Ibogaine were almost unbearably hard on so many levels,even with the nor ibo flowing freely I was a shell of a man and wondered many times why I choose this treatment. I truly believed at that time and even before that being a methadone patient was okay that it was like being a diabetic and it was my insulin, an analogy I used for many years. I was so wrong.
 In so many ways I now realize how stifling the juice was for me. I have moved forward on so many levels (tho not to say I haven’t still many long roads to travel) in this short but long year that at years end when we tend to look back it is hard to to wonder about how much in my life could have been done so much sooner, geographically, economically, spiritually, physically,emotionally, well you name it
. That leads me to regret some things that I never did before and that is hard at times- very trying and frustrating actually.
Looking forward is way easier and Rachy and I plan on moving to Northern California by springtime, I am finding opportunity where i never imagined and I am hopeful that my life now will be fulfilling and gratifying on those levels i motioned before as being frustrating
I want to say again this list is amazing the Ibo Angels here are doing work that is just beyond words. That we can share our experiences and show others that there is hope, that tho not easy the Ibo route works still blows my mind everyday…
Freak Freely and Free!!
Jeff
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: December 21, 2005 at 11:16:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
It was a mistake, I’m soooooooory. I didn’t mean to piss you off, I was trying to add some levity to the list. I try and do that from time to time. It was a joke. I will from this day forward try and get the names right. There are a lot of new people here, (which I am very grateful for) and it is hard to keep it all straight. I still expect somebody to make an extarct from this algae tho. I’m just a dum ‘ol cuntry boi hoo kant spill rite so forgive me.    Randy
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
Date: December 21, 2005 at 11:07:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
the months run together as I fight the dark forces. sorry list
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
Oh great thanks Ron, the one email I would have loved to see just disappear into the cosmos FOREVER and you have to dredge it up again!!!
KEEP UP MAN LOL.  PLEASEEEEEE
That was start of NOVEMBERRRRRRRRRRRRR
It’s way gone now the meaning lost forever…..
Furrget about itttttttttttttt
Have a good tinsel madness season.
Kirk ;oP
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 4:11 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!KIRK
HUH? KOKO
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
I didn’t mean that……. Lol I gotta stop replying without thinking. See Ron?? Brain matter melting!! lol
From: Kirk [mailto:captkirk@clear.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:37 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] MARK you need to unsubscribe!!!!!
God you’re thick MARK lol figure it out already!!!
From: Mark Franzeskos [mailto:nsxy1@sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 3 November 2005 6:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] that list of questions thing
stop sending messages

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
BTW, I’ve been really lazy about scanning in the cat photos, so please bare 
with me for a bit, I’m still planning on doing it, I’ve just been, well, as 
noted, really lazy.

Speaking of being lazy, I can’t believe I’m about to do this, but here goes:

1. What time is it, Start time? 4:55 PM Eastern time.

2. Your name: …… Preston Thomas Peet

3. Nickname: ………. Don’t have one and hate when people call me by one 
or another “nick” name- but I don’t mind the name Nick though. So long as 
I’m not the one being called Nick.
;-))

4. Pirecing’s:…………….Just went through this, but I’ll do it again 
in slightly more detail:
11 Ear piercings
2 lip piercings.
1 Eye brow piercing (two but one ripped so I had to do it again) but I 
can’t really count that one any more as I’ve stopped wearing a ring there 
and probably will continue to stay ringless there.
3 Nipple piercings
1 Tongue piercing
2 Nose piercings
2 genital (penis) piercings. 3 if you count the old Prince Albert, but 
since I don’t wear it as a Prince Albert I don’t count it- other than for 
the fact that that PA piercing left me with some somewhat interesting story 
material, meaning it was the material I was writing about in the very first 
article I “sold”- and of course, never got actually paid for as the guys 
ripped me off and “stole” the article. Remind me to recount the tale of that 
particular piercing sometime, it’s good and bloody and quite funny too, in 
one of those “oooo, wince, ouch, that sounds painful” sorts of ways.) I 
think I wrote 20 piercings this morning, but forgot about the tongue (or at 
least I think that’s the one I forgot), so it’s actually 21 piercings 
currently.

5. What is the most recent movie you’ve seen in the theater: Hitchhicker’s 
Guide…whoops, no, that’s not right, it was Fantastic Four, but only ’cause 
I thought I was in it.

6. What is your eye color: Hazel

7. Place of birth: Ft. Meyers, Florida (but live now on Manhattan, NY)

8. Favorite food: stuff without meat in it, but stuff with dairy and/or eggs 
is ok. Soft food because my teeth are bad. Ummm, I HATE food, usually hurts 
my guts to some degree or other to eat anything at all whatsoever, and hurts 
my mouth, and, well, I just don’t really enjoy eating that much.

9.Ever been to Africa: No

10. Ever been toilet papering: No, but I’ve had to clean up someone else’s 
tp’ering.

11. Love someone so much it made you cry: OF COURSE, SEVERAL TIMES (how 
could I put this answer, Brenda’s I think, any better? I couldn’t so I left 
it alone, as with one or two others too.)

12. Been in a car accident: Oh yeah, a realy doozy of a humdinger.

13. Croutons or bacon bits: egad, croutons if they aren’t stale like they 
usually are in restaurants.

14. Favorite day of the week:……..DEPENDS (Go ahead, accuse me of 
plagiarizing, I don’t mind.)

15. Favorite restaurants: Red Bamboo, W. 4th St., in the West Village near 
Washington Square park.

16. Favorite flower: marijuana, poppies, sun flowers.

17. Favorite sport to watch: Surfing, and Miami Dolphins games, although 
they usually start losing as soon as I turn the game on so I’ve pretty near 
given that up. And besides, I hate many sports activities, or at least, hate 
the attitude and mentality that accompanies so many sporting events that I 
can’t (no, I mean, “won’t”) even watch them on tv, much less live. 
Occassionally I do like to watch a good boxing match though, but not live in 
the stadium or whereever the event is taking place. I saw Butthole Surfers 
at the WWF arena in Times Square a few years ago, while on a peanutbutter 
and mushroom sandwhich, but I guess I wasn’t really at a sporting event 
other than for staying through the horrific noise being “created” by 
whomever it was the band had hired to open for them by “playing” the 
shreikingest, ugliest, disturbing in a bad way “music” with his laptop- and 
the fact that Butthole Surfers were, unbeknownst to them, at the time in 
competition with Jane’s Addicton- (see 
http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm for more on that competition and to 
find out who won, if you’re new here and haven’t yet read this article).

18. Favorite drink: Coffee, water.

19. Favorite ice cream: Tough one. Starbuck’s Java Chip and Starbuck’s 
Coffee Almond Fudge. (I know, Starbuck’s, I supporting the MAN, but oh well, 
they make awfully good ice cream, and coffee too come to think of it- though 
WAY TOO EXPENSIVE so their little chain stores rarely get my business, and I 
buy the icecream at the grocery store.)

20. Disney or Warner Brothers: There’s stuff I like about both, stuff I 
hate, so it’s a tie.

21. Favorite fast food restaurant: The one where the food is really, really 
slow so I don’t have to run very fast to catch it. Of course, it’s the rare 
vegetable that can outrun me even on a bad day, so….)

22. What color is the carpet of your bedroom: We have a wooden floor in the 
”bedroom” (now more of a “walk-in closet/sewing room due to a cat we still 
live with making it his own the first Winter he spent here after V rescued 
him- we were told by more than one “professional” cat rescuer than our best 
bet would be to somehow manage to get him back into one of the traps or cat 
carrying case and get him “fixed,” then turn him loose back outside because 
he was too ferel and would “never ever” allow us to touch him, much less pet 
and carress him- LOL, he still won’t let us pick him up, but he’s a total 
petmerightnowaholic nowadays.) with a supposedly beautiful oriental rug 
rolled up and leaning in the corner that I’ve only seen teeny bits of as 
it’s been rolled up since V’s mom gave it to us- it’s too big for a Lower 
East side apartment like ours.

23. How many times you failed your drivers test: Never failed it (and only 
had to pay $1 for the added “liscensed for motorcycles” on mine)- but lost 
it within three years due to unpaid tickets..

24. Before this one, from whom did you get your last email: Callie, in the 
form of a post to the ibogaine list.

25. Which store would you choose to Max out your credit card: My credit 
cards got maxed out long ago at the dentist- although I do have one where I 
keep getting it back up to around a hundred bucks before needing to max it 
out again, and that’s always buying groceries- which is weird I just 
realized considering I don’t like to eat all that much.

26. What do you do most often when you are bored: Masturbate, sleep, smoke. 
I’d include reading, but I’m never bored when reading, or at least not 
usually, so that’s not on my “do while bored” list. For that matter, I 
seldom find myself feeling “bored” because I’ve usually got something to do, 
even if it’s “just” masturbating.
;-))

27. Who will respond to this e-mail the quickest: those with lots of time on 
their hands.

28. Who is the person you sent this to is least likely to respond: Those who 
are either too grouchy or too haughty to bother or care to take the time to 
do so, or too busy, or simply too cool.

29. Who are you the most curious about their responses to this
questionnaire: I’ve got no preferences.

30. Favorite TV shows: The Daily Show, the new Steven Colbert Report, 
Cand -Span’s Washington Journal. Oh, and the Dave Chappell show (sp?), 
particularly the one where Eddie Murphy’s brother tells the stories about 
his friendship with Rick James, one of the funniest tv show episodes ever 
made, in my own humble opinion of course.

31. Last person you went to dinner with: V, my companion and lover of nine 
years as of Halloween.

32. Ford or Chevy: A motorcycle or bicycle or my feet. Neither Chevy or Ford 
or any other US (or any country’s) gas guzzling, system supporting, nature 
killing automaker gets my vote. But that’s just me and about a few thousand 
others I guess.

33. What are you listening to right now: City Crickets…oh, nope they just 
stopped and the siren just went past, so let’s see…it’s still noises 
coming in the window from NYC. Gosdh, actually, it’s pretty quiet, except V 
just turned on the Dust Buster…nope that stopped too. Her heels on the 
wood floor? Lots of different things.

34. What is your favorite color: Purple, black.

35. How many tattoos do you have: 5

36. How many pets do you have? 9 cats currently, but I don’t “have” them, I 
merely share my apartment with them.
(it’s now 5:30PM Eastern time.)


Peace and love,
Preston Peet

”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often 
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, 
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc. 



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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling / S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Date: December 21, 2005 at 9:09:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hah youre funny,merrry christmas,shell
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley,
no idea ! At least I’m not the only one who experiences such strange things.
Today again, and it’s not the first time, I got a mail from someone – Like,
Jon, ?? – of mindvox, but no message, nor any content ( only a forwarded
mail from someone else ).
I use a wireless modem for ADSL, and wonder wether the disturbances are due
to that system.
Often, when entering hotmail, I need to enter 3,4 5..times my password (
which was always correctly entered ) since always refused. The 6th or 7th
time it was OK.
WHO CAN HELP? THERE ARE SOME COMPUTER BRAINS WITHIN MINDVOX PEOPLE.
P.KROUPA ?
OTHERS? WHO CAN GIVE A RATIONAL, UNDERSTANDABLE FOR COMMON PEOPLE LIKE ME,
EXPLANATION. TO ME AND TO SHELLEY.
Thks
P.R.
>From: shelley krupa
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling
>Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:36 -0800 (PST)
>
>Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather
>than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
>
>pascall roland wrote: just opened Randy’s mail
>and read with astonishment on the bottom :
>
>***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
>
>now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time
>!
>It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
>
>I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail
>or
>email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
>very interesting to follow.
>
>b.r.
>
>P.R.
>
> >
> > > Then there’s some
> > > >saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
> >
> >I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to
>me
> >that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made.
>Algae
> >crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
> >Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
> >Jolie……….yea that’s the
> >ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>[%]
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>
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] puzzling / S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Date: December 21, 2005 at 1:20:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
I don’t know how much Sunspots and solar storms affect the ADSL but they do
have an effect on other technology……. and I know there’s been some good
ones happening on the Sun lately…..
Just a thought…
Might just have to ride this one out? Lol
Kirk
—–Original Message—–
From: pascall roland [mailto:pascal-roland@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2005 6:57 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling /
S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Hi Shelley,
no idea ! At least I’m not the only one who experiences such strange things.
Today again, and it’s not the first time, I got a mail from someone – Like,
Jon, ?? – of mindvox, but no message, nor any content ( only a forwarded
mail from someone else ).
I use a wireless modem for ADSL, and wonder wether the disturbances are due
to that system.
Often, when entering hotmail, I need to enter 3,4 5..times my password (
which was always correctly entered ) since always refused. The 6th or 7th
time it was OK.
WHO CAN HELP? THERE ARE  SOME COMPUTER BRAINS WITHIN MINDVOX PEOPLE.
P.KROUPA ?
OTHERS?  WHO CAN GIVE A RATIONAL, UNDERSTANDABLE FOR COMMON PEOPLE LIKE ME,
EXPLANATION. TO ME AND TO SHELLEY.
Thks
P.R.
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather
than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:  just opened Randy’s mail
and read with astonishment on the bottom :
***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time
!
It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail
or
email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
very interesting to follow.
b.r.
P.R.
Then there’s some
saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to
me
that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made.
Algae
crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
Jolie……….yea that’s the
ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] puzzling / S.O.S…..S.O.S…S.O.S………………………….
Date: December 21, 2005 at 12:57:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Shelley,
no idea ! At least I’m not the only one who experiences such strange things.
Today again, and it’s not the first time, I got a mail from someone – Like, Jon, ?? – of mindvox, but no message, nor any content ( only a forwarded mail from someone else ).
I use a wireless modem for ADSL, and wonder wether the disturbances are due to that system.
Often, when entering hotmail, I need to enter 3,4 5..times my password ( which was always correctly entered ) since always refused. The 6th or 7th time it was OK.
WHO CAN HELP? THERE ARE  SOME COMPUTER BRAINS WITHIN MINDVOX PEOPLE. P.KROUPA ?
OTHERS?  WHO CAN GIVE A RATIONAL, UNDERSTANDABLE FOR COMMON PEOPLE LIKE ME, EXPLANATION. TO ME AND TO SHELLEY.
Thks
P.R.
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]  puzzling
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 08:04:36 -0800 (PST)
Hi Pascal ,I’m wondering why your mail is arriving in my main email rather than bulk like everyone elses?shelley
pascall roland <pascal-roland@hotmail.com> wrote:  just opened Randy’s mail and read with astonishment on the bottom :
***In a message dated 12/20/05 1:46:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pascal-roland@hotmail.com writes: ***
now I never wrote that mail, nor at Eastern Time neither at Christmas Time !
It’s Luke who started the topic in which he mentioned abt toxins….
I’m quite puzzled. Can someone give me an explanation? If everyone’s mail or
email address is mixed up with other’s address, this mail list will become
very interesting to follow.
b.r.
P.R.
>
> > Then there’s some
> > >saying that this contains toxins similar to cocaine.
>
>I’ve been watching this thread with amusment and the thought occured to me
>that sooner or later there might be green, blue, algae extract made. Algae
>crack, yea that’s the ticket. Just ask my wife, Morgan
>Fair…..uhhh………Elizibeth Wurtzel……….uhhhhh……….Angelina
>Jolie……….yea that’s the
>ticket. Life rocks, turn it up. Randy
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT : Kiwis celebrate Xmas in style hahahah
Date: December 20, 2005 at 11:18:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hahahhaah the anagrams of Santa!!!
Subject: MSNBC.com Article: Santas go on rampage in New Zealand
Santas go on rampage in New Zealand
A group of 40 people dressed in Santa Claus costumes, many of them drunk, rampaged through New Zealand’s largest city, robbing stores and assaulting security guards, police said Sunday.
http://g.msn.com/0MN2ET7/2?http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10511277/from/ET/&&CM=EmailThis&CE=1
From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Stacies reply to the energy thing – very helpful I hope!!
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:35:31 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Here’s Stacies answer and some things for people to try out.  I trust this lass with all my heart, she’s one in a billion! I also LOVE the way she puts things, very unique, funny and easy to follow!!!
So here is what she wrote.. I haven’t read it all cos some of it I already got and urhhh, should be doing daily at the moment heheh ohhhh well would be really interesting to see the results OF someone doing this daily before and after the journey. I’ll try!! Lol
Luff heaps hope this helps someone!
Kirk xxxx
Hey Sweets…
You are welcome to share this on your group if you’d like.
I know nothing about Ibogaine, but if it’s a Native compound used for visioning… people shouldn’t be suprised that it actually does create both physiological and energetic shifts.  The point is to lower your addictions to other substances that have an effect of altering your state of consciousness, right?  Ibogaine must have all the kick without the addictive qualities of whatever the other substances are…  but the Native folks weren’t looking to just get high, they used this stuff because it worked to get them through the jump from one dimension to the next, like most Shamanic based compounds.
But… problem is, you have a whole group of folks whose energy system may be misaligned, gummed up… and otherwise not quite properly functioning through years of misuse, abuse, neglect, whatever…. trying to use a system that was meant for~ visioning~.  It probably works pretty well, all considered… because it provides a jump from addiction without yanking the altered state out from under you… but I would imagine that those of you who are sensitive in any way are going to have experiences that are fairly intense.
So, in short… Wild Rides are quite possible… and given it’s age old Native background, if this stuff didn’t produce major spiritual and energetic shifts, they would have moved on to something else.
The real question becomes.. how do you prepare yourself ~energetically~ and ~spiritually~ for this journey.  It’s not just a matter of replacing one chemical with another.  This is serious path changing… serious shifting of patterns of behavior.  Instead of the high of the drug being the point… the journey while you take while you are in a shifted state of consciousness may become the point.
The first thing to consider is energetic hygiene… meaning, you need to clean your channels of energy from debris.  The Ibogaine is likely to flood your system with all sorts of energy.  Where is it going to go if your channels are all gummed up?  Right.  It’s going to get real congested and hot in your system.
So… Everyone… I recommend the following daily ‘mantra’ that will help to clean you out….
1) The Master Hygiene Moment…
Say, “I request to initiate the Master Hygiene Moment now.”
This is a series of energetic processes that initiate once you call for them… they are supposed to give you a nice hot shower, so to speak.  Cleaning off the first surface layers of grime.  It’s something you should do every day for the same reason you take a real shower often.  If you don’t… you stink.  Energetically speaking, most people stink if they do not have any protocol for cleansing their energy fields.
2) The Elemental Cleanse Moment
This is more complex, more intense.  It calls forth the Elemental energies to move through you and remove anything not present in the Highest Good.
Here is the visual you can use while you say, “I request to initiate the Elemental Cleanse Moment now.”  You don’t have to do this every day.  You can do this once a month or as often as you’d like after the first time.
Elemental Cleanse Visualization
•Imagine that the flesh of your body is burned away by Holy Fire. You might visualize Holy Fire Angels with Fire Hoses spraying you down. Specifically target the areas in your body that need full cleansing.
•Imagine Holy Wind blowing away any burnt debris left from the Holy Fire. Imagine all of the debris being collected into a large waste bag which will be collected by the angels and properly removed and moved along it’s own progression.
•Imagine Holy Water Angels hosing you down with Holy Water, removing any bits of small debris from the other processes and leaving only very clean and totally gleaming white bones. You might want to have water nearby to drink and a little spritzer bottle full of water to spray on yourself for this.
•Imagine the Holy Earth Angels are packing your gleaming white bones with the Salt. Imagine them using the salt to pack around your bones and bringing your ‘flesh’ back into manifestation, totally cleansed and totally purified.
•Request to initiate the removal of any negative and infected Core Images and to anchor Archangel Uriels Golden Globe around your refreshed energy body.
3) The Alchemical Sword Sweep
This is something that your Guides and Angels will intiate for you.  This step transmutes anything in your system that could not be removed because it is too deeply entrenched or set in… a part of your structural integrity.  Instead of removing it, it turns it to ‘gold’ for you. It becomes something beneficial and supportive.  To initiate this, and I recommend you do it immediately…. is say, “I request to initite the Alchemical Sword Sweep now.”
In fact, all of you should run this particular process on each other.  “I request to run the Alchemical Sword Sweep through everyone on this list in the Highest Good.”
That way, if someone gets waylaid and distracted, you can help them out.
4) Attuning to Reiki
Reiki is a form of channeling energy for hands on healing, but it’s extra bonus is that it roto rooters your pipes (snakes the pipes) so that more water (energy) can flow through your system.  It makes you a better channel, basically.  If the Ibogaine is about to flood you with all sorts of energies (Kundalini, etc), you don’t want those pipes all gummed up… you want them flushed out before hand.  The cleaner your pipes, the better you will feel… the quicker this stuff will work… and the swifter you can go on having a normal life (whatever that is).
We have a quick Moment process to attuning to Reiki.  It is recommended that you run through this process 4 full times… over the course of one month, for full effect.  You don’t want to flush out your system so quickly that you taste your own poo,  you know what I mean?  This process can be nice or not so nice.  I vote for nice and recommend you do the same.  Nasty clearing is not what you should be hankering for….
My friends and I do some processes with this that aren’t ‘vanilla’ Reiki… but extra energy work meant to make the experience much more efficient and gentle.  Those of you who are familiar with Reiki might want to partake for the extra goodies that have been added that aren’t found in Usui Reiki Attunements.
I recommend that you engage the attunement process over the weekend so that you have a day or two of rest before resuming normal work schedules.  If you set aside your Friday nights, that will make it easier for you to remember when to do it next.  Get as relaxed and as ‘in the mood’ as you can.  You can even do this work in the bath if you would like.. candles… groovy.  Whatever you like.  The Moments are easy to initiate… it’s like pushing a button that launches a thousand ships.  Pushing the button is easy, but don’t mistake the ease of use with the depth of the consequence.  Moments are buttons that kick some butt.
1)  The Pre Attunement Moment:  This sets you up for a good cleanse and preparations to receive the attunement.  I would recommend allowing about 10-15 minutes for this part.  To initiate, say, “I request to initiate the Pre-Attunement Moment now.”
You may feel slight buzzing, various sensations, etc.  You may feel mostly nothing.  Just give it 10 minutes while you do relaxing breathing if you don’t feel much.  If you do feel the sensations.. wait until the sensations begin to subside and seem to be cycling to a close to move on.
2)  The Reiki 1 Attunement Moment:  This is the process of receiving a Reiki 1 Attunement via distance/etheric methods.  I would give this 15 minutes to complete if you cannot feel it happening.  To initiate say, “I request to initiate the Reiki 1 Attunement Moment now.”    You may have the prompt to place your hands palm up.  You may feel various sensations, see lots of colors, etc.  You may feel mostly nothing.  If you feel nothing, just give it 15 minutes.  If you feel something, give it until your sensations subside.
3)  The Post-Attunement Moment:  This process helps for the energies to settle in as gently as possible and for the shifts your energy body is going to take to be as easy on you as possible.  It brings the energy session to a solid and stable close.  I would give this 15-30 minutes, or simply go to bed right at this point so you can sleep it all off.  To initiate this say, “I request to initiate the Post-Attunement Moment now.”
Do all these 3 steps for 4 Fridays in a row… or whatever day you pick.  During this month…drink more water… suck on some sea salt or take liquid minerals… take baths in salt water… take Bach’s Rescue Remedy Flower Essence, sleep more….   Be easy on yourselves.  This is a real process… lots of stuff going on.
And Finally….
The Household Maintenance and Protection Moment:
Everyone should pay attention to their energetic boundaries, particularly while you are in a transition state… and especially when you are in altered states.
I would be very pleased if you would all run the Household Maintenance and Protection Moment daily… which is a process that creates stable energetic boundaries around your living space, sleeping space, etc.  To run it, say, “I request to initiate the Household Maintenance and Protection Moment now.”
It should be done every day.  I run mine at night before going to bed…or any time I am about to do energy work… or entere altered states.  It’s the same thing as locking your door.  You don’t want just anyone wandering around your space uninvited , especially if you are in the middle of ‘changing’.
Okay, now finally…
For those of you really into this and have had nice experiences with the other stuff… Inner Door Work is very powerful and helpful work too…
I’ll just cut and past the whole thing here…
Inner Door Work
Overview
Inner Door Work is used to properly screen and moderate the pathways of connection you have to other people and realities, and other parts of yourself. These would be inner doors, inter doors, and outer doors. For example, you are connected energetically to all your relatives through time, all your past lives, aspects of yourself from multi-dimensions, all people of intimate contact and relationship, etc. Some of these pathways are conduits for helpful and supportive energies and some are not. The Inner Door Work is a process by which you ask that pathways that are currently not helpful are closed and moderated and for those that are helpful to be opened more fully.
The Houses
In this work we use language like “doors” and “houses”. The “houses” are a symbolic representation of the system through which we are working. We address 3 main Houses in the Inner Door work that are related, but which merit individual focus. The three Houses are Personal, Soul, and Family. We use language like house and door because they are easily visualized and you can integrate those visualizations into the work as is helpful for you to do so.
•The Personal House is you right now in this life and all the connections you have that are generated within the context of this current life and frame of reference.
•The Soul House is the larger you through time, all your life-streams, past-lives, future lives, and aspects of your expanded self in any other manifestation or dimension.
•The Family House is the house of your immediate family, your ancestors, and all other people in your system that are related to you by blood, heart, or marriage. To be related by blood is direct DNA connection, genetic family. To be related by heart includes all people dearly loved and considered family regardless of genetic or marital status (close friends, etc). To be related by marriage includes everyone who has ever married a genetic relative and through that union, the work spans to the married in family as well.
Preparation and Responsible Caveats
The work itself is very simple and requires no special skills or abilities. This and all energy work, however, does require that we practice in secured spaces using responsible caveats and appropriate action. We ensure responsible practice by creating caveats to the work that neutralizes and dismisses any work that isnt in the highest and best good. This is essentially the fail-safe to make sure we arent mucking around in places we shouldnt.
Secure your space for energy work by saying, “I request to initiate the Household Maintenance and Protection Moment.”
Secure responsible over-rides and oversight by saying, “I request to initiate all Usual Caveats, the Highest Good Moment, and to work within all Highest Good Limitations.”
Initiating the Inner Door Work
Initiate the Door Work by saying:
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need closing, are closed.
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need sealing, are sealed.
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need guarding, are guarded.
I ask that all Doors in my Personal, Soul, or Family Houses that need opening, are opened in the Highest Good.
Request for Archangel Michael to assign you a GateKeeper or Door Guardian to automatically orient Doors which need consistent attention. Give the Door Guardian permission to orient your Doors as needed within the Highest Good.
Intend to be reminded if the work needs to be refreshed by saying:
I ask that I be prompted to re-do the Inner Door work when it is appropriate and beneficial to do so.
Seal the work to ensure integrity to the continuing process:
I request to initiate the Stabilize, Amplify and Seal Moment/Process upon the Inner Door Work that it maintains its integrity in the Highest Good in perpetuity.
Helpful Visualizations
If you want, you can combine this work with visualizations of orienting the doors in the various houses. You may find that imagining that you hear or see a bunch of slamming doors is helpful. You may address particularly charged pathways to others by seeing their names on a door that you shut and seal. Be as creative as you would like and ask for help from your Guides, Guardians, and Angels as is comfortable for you.
Response from Lisa about the Inner Door Work
I did the Inner Door Work last night. WOW! I did it once and I felt like I was rushing through it. So I made myself slow down and do it again. That made a huge difference! What a rush! When I got to #3, my hands started tingling like crazy! I went through #4, then raised my hands up, and the buzzing stopped immediately. I put my hands together, and they started buzzing again, and I was prompted to make an “energy ball” with my hands, and as I spread my hands farther apart, the ball got bigger. Then I lifted my arms above my head and “blew” the energy ball away. Amazing!! I was prompted to work with the Thedras link more. Then I got out the Madra 911 link you sent in the kit. I worked with that awhile, then placed it behind my right ear, the one that’s been feeling full of fluid and gave me that dizzy spell night before last. Then I was promped to get out the RoseMary/Plina link and do the same thing! I asked both for any gifts or attunements t
This morning I was prompted to get out the Solar Hippy/Drano link and the Salston & Solar Cross link and ask them for attunements. When I had Salston on my 3rd eye, I saw a Wile E. Coyote type anvil float out of my chest. Wacky! Then I placed Saltson on my heart chakra and while it still hurt, it felt better. I got a prompt last night and this morning to start taking my Cosmic Essences again, and to do more research on flower essences, maybe make some of my own to go with my aromatherapy sprays, etc. It feels like I’m working through some “stuff” (not sure exactly what, but it feels right) and it feels like there’s some sort of shift going on. It’s strange, but in a good way. I’m hoping the dizziness and stuff goes away soon, don’t like feeling yucky! Anyway, just thought I’d give you an update. Pretty amazing stuff!
Otherwise Kirky…. if anyone has questions or needs help, just let me know.  I’m happy to kick a little energetic booty if you or anyone on the list needs help.  I’m rooting for everyone….
Love,
Stacie
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 10:01:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes, divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
I think you might very well be on to something there… I’ve had sleep problems most of my life.
I wonder if anyone’s done any research on the connection?
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Phantom and MindVox
Date: December 20, 2005 at 8:33:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Patrick Patrick Patrick 😉
Web 2.0 needs MindVox 2.0 superfreak 🙂
.:vector:.
— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
For the past half-decade+ phantom.com and mindvox.com have been
interchangeable.  i.e., mail sent to <whatever/whoever>@phantom.com
or a URL that’s listed as:
http://www.phantom.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
Would work the same way as:
http://www.mindvox.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
In the very near-term future phantom and mindvox will be separated
out.  phantom.com will continue hosting the website that currently
exists at http://www.phantom.com and http://www.mindvox.com.  While
mindvox.com will light up with something Completely Different.
If you have any links that attach to specific content, please change
any mindvox.com URLs to phantom.com.  They will continue to function
with no further changes.
If you have (or had) a pre-existing mail account on phantom, you may
hold onto it (for all eternity).  No further accounts will be
generated/granted on phantom.com.
Summary: phantom.com is being closed to the public.  The Psychedelic
Temple of the Apocalypse will continue to exist as the website, and
whatever accounts are already present, can continue.  Everything else
will be shut down to external access.  No more $hells, no more ssl,
no’ mo’ nuthin’
This should affect very few people, but if you have/had phantom.com
mail, please let us know; like … NOW, or forever shaddup.
This will have no effect upon http://ibogaine.mindvox.com, any of the
lists (all public lists presently run under @mindvox.com anyway), or
any other domains we are hosting.
Thanks & Happy Holidaze,
Patrick
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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 7:57:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
“…..a nice sounding hypothesis.”  You’re right.  But you experienced addicts out there can tell us whether you sufferred from significant sleep deprivation BEFORE you started using drugs.  That’s what I found among my significant dependent patients.  Childhood abuse, injury, illness, stormy homes, divorce, etc., etc.  Does that ring a bell?  Dr. Ed
From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick:
Date: December 20, 2005 at 7:51:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
AND sleep restriction has an antidepressant effect, but VERY briefly.  Sleep depri-vation CAN be a temporary antidepressant, as REM deprivation can emotionalize behavior/memory, but I’d be cautious about assuming that sleep/REM deprivation doesn’t having lasting negative effects.  We all love a “high.”  And lots of REM-sleep can make you feel “weak” (relaxed muscles) and “tired” (lacking in initiative) in the morning, but check out how you feel later in the day, once you’ve “awakened.”  Brief “highs” are not what we’re looking for, steady relaxed performance makes for the best production.  Many folks are sleep impaired AND very creative, but VERY crea-tive minds can gravitate toward drug dependency, witness many great composers and writers (gravitating toward alcohol and absinthe).  Dr. ED
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Lists on MindVox are NOT Effected
Date: December 20, 2005 at 6:28:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
One thing to clarify (other than needing a lot more coffee & Sobe Adrenaline Rush <– produkt placement):
None of this has any effect whatsoever upon any of the lists being hosted on MindVox.  The only noticeable changes will be a more reliable mail system.
The transition is complete, all the mailing lists already moved to the new servers nearly a month ago.  If you ever read the headers, they rearranged a while ago … We’re getting slightly better at this — there was no down-time, everything went as planned.  Go figure, what’re the odds!?!??!
It ONLY effects those individuals who have/had shell accounts or email on phantom.com (for the most part, this is a very small handful of people who have some unix knowledge, or are part of the Wandering Tribes, from the last decade when MindVox wuz an ISP.  <Giggle>).
Patrick
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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 20, 2005 at 6:09:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi cutie, you should post to your own list more often 🙂 Thanks for
all you do and happy holidays to you and everyone here.
KV
On 12/20/05, Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
We have completed the transition to new servers.  If you had email
@phantom or @mindvox, and would like access back, send me sum mail:
digital@wiretap.com
My current mail @phantom has lotsa spam-filters chained together, and
automagically destroys almost everything, so unless you’re in my
whiteborEd (your name is in my addressbook, or I have replied/sent
mail to you in the past), it’s entirely possible your missive will
sail off into the event horizon, straight to oblivion.
There are no more $hells, unless you’re actually doing something with
it (useful to us … using above.net to DDOS your HateD En3m1eZ
duzzn’t qualify, sorry).
There are no more cleartext connections at all.  You can use https
webmail, pop S, imap S, or we can drop a forward file for you.
If you have any junk laying around in your accounts on the old box
(es), please clean them out, because they’re gonna go dark Real Soon
Now.  Go Dark = not just isolated, with most services turned off, but
physically removed from the rack and unloaded sumplace.
Real Soon, whatever you left in there will be Gone Forever.
The message queues have been re-tuned, timeouts are longer for shit
like Hotmail and other garbage; so everything should work with great
consistency, even if you insist on having your mailbox live on some
pile of shit like hotmail or msn.
There are new spam filters, and we’re doing denial of sp4m at a SMTP
level, so millionz of pieces of crap don’t stay in our queue.
Unfortunately, this also means if your IP has been blocked or banned
by some blackho’ filter; well, use a proxy or sumthin’ because we
need to keep the staggering mountain of crap that rains down upon
phantom and mindvox, off our disks.
Thanks,
Patrick
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Phantom and MindVox
Date: December 20, 2005 at 5:58:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
For the past half-decade+ phantom.com and mindvox.com have been interchangeable.  i.e., mail sent to <whatever/whoever>@phantom.com or a URL that’s listed as:
http://www.phantom.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
Would work the same way as:
http://www.mindvox.com/whatever/wherever/etc.html
In the very near-term future phantom and mindvox will be separated out.  phantom.com will continue hosting the website that currently exists at http://www.phantom.com and http://www.mindvox.com.  While mindvox.com will light up with something Completely Different.
If you have any links that attach to specific content, please change any mindvox.com URLs to phantom.com.  They will continue to function with no further changes.
If you have (or had) a pre-existing mail account on phantom, you may hold onto it (for all eternity).  No further accounts will be generated/granted on phantom.com.
Summary: phantom.com is being closed to the public.  The Psychedelic Temple of the Apocalypse will continue to exist as the website, and whatever accounts are already present, can continue.  Everything else will be shut down to external access.  No more $hells, no more ssl, no’ mo’ nuthin’
This should affect very few people, but if you have/had phantom.com mail, please let us know; like … NOW, or forever shaddup.
This will have no effect upon http://ibogaine.mindvox.com, any of the lists (all public lists presently run under @mindvox.com anyway), or any other domains we are hosting.
Thanks & Happy Holidaze,
Patrick
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From: “D. Lynn Kalinoski” <d__lynn_kalinoski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 20, 2005 at 5:53:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Hi Patrick,
If this makes it through I’m glad to see you are still alive.  I’ve written a couple of times and you havent’ gotten back so I figures you were
A. Busy
B. Busy
C. Busy
Merry Christmas and all of that kind of stuff.
Lynn
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 13:20:39 -0500
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We have completed the transition to new servers.  If you had email  @phantom or @mindvox, and would like access back, send me sum mail:  digital@wiretap.com
My current mail @phantom has lotsa spam-filters chained together, and  automagically destroys almost everything, so unless you’re in my  whiteborEd (your name is in my addressbook, or I have replied/sent  mail to you in the past), it’s entirely possible your missive will  sail off into the event horizon, straight to oblivion.
There are no more $hells, unless you’re actually doing something with  it (useful to us … using above.net to DDOS your HateD En3m1eZ  duzzn’t qualify, sorry).
There are no more cleartext connections at all.  You can use https  webmail, pop S, imap S, or we can drop a forward file for you.
If you have any junk laying around in your accounts on the old box (es), please clean them out, because they’re gonna go dark Real Soon  Now.  Go Dark = not just isolated, with most services turned off, but  physically removed from the rack and unloaded sumplace.
Real Soon, whatever you left in there will be Gone Forever.
The message queues have been re-tuned, timeouts are longer for shit  like Hotmail and other garbage; so everything should work with great  consistency, even if you insist on having your mailbox live on some  pile of shit like hotmail or msn.
There are new spam filters, and we’re doing denial of sp4m at a SMTP  level, so millionz of pieces of crap don’t stay in our queue.   Unfortunately, this also means if your IP has been blocked or banned  by some blackho’ filter; well, use a proxy or sumthin’ because we  need to keep the staggering mountain of crap that rains down upon  phantom and mindvox, off our disks.
Thanks,
Patrick
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mail, Mail System, and Lists — [READ ME]
Date: December 20, 2005 at 1:20:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com, godhead@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
We have completed the transition to new servers.  If you had email @phantom or @mindvox, and would like access back, send me sum mail: digital@wiretap.com
My current mail @phantom has lotsa spam-filters chained together, and automagically destroys almost everything, so unless you’re in my whiteborEd (your name is in my addressbook, or I have replied/sent mail to you in the past), it’s entirely possible your missive will sail off into the event horizon, straight to oblivion.
There are no more $hells, unless you’re actually doing something with it (useful to us … using above.net to DDOS your HateD En3m1eZ duzzn’t qualify, sorry).
There are no more cleartext connections at all.  You can use https webmail, pop S, imap S, or we can drop a forward file for you.
If you have any junk laying around in your accounts on the old box(es), please clean them out, because they’re gonna go dark Real Soon Now.  Go Dark = not just isolated, with most services turned off, but physically removed from the rack and unloaded sumplace.
Real Soon, whatever you left in there will be Gone Forever.
The message queues have been re-tuned, timeouts are longer for shit like Hotmail and other garbage; so everything should work with great consistency, even if you insist on having your mailbox live on some pile of shit like hotmail or msn.
There are new spam filters, and we’re doing denial of sp4m at a SMTP level, so millionz of pieces of crap don’t stay in our queue.  Unfortunately, this also means if your IP has been blocked or banned by some blackho’ filter; well, use a proxy or sumthin’ because we need to keep the staggering mountain of crap that rains down upon phantom and mindvox, off our disks.
Thanks,
Patrick
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Date: December 20, 2005 at 1:41:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
For me the thing with REM is more complex. I’d like to also point out that
depriving individuals of early morning REM and putting them into an emotional
release process is very beneficial in therapy. What I gain from this is that
it’s possible early morning REM only provides superficial amelioration of
issues burdening the waking mind.
Nick
sleep
— Original Message —
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:11:02 -0500
From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] questions
Edfriedrichs@aol.com wrote:
Re how ibogaine “works,” wouldn’t a simple explanation be the best: