Ibogaine List Archives - 2005-12

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick

Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:40:23 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/31/2005 9:45:56 PM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:

Should i stop communicating as Capt KIrk? ;o)

does it really matter?

As long as you are not a Klingon I don’t think it matters. Those Klingons are a whole other story!

Callie

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:57:36 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol, there was no point to what i wrote, it was purely my

wierd sense of humour ;o)

—– Original Message Follows —–

ahahah… good point, maybe that wasn’t the best example

to use =)

captkirk wrote:

Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy

Pants.

From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am

talking Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they

do in some way cause nerve and/or brain damage.

Luff lite n Lafta

to all

Happy noo yeahsss

I have showered for the last time this year.

yahoo.

Kirk xxx

—– Original Message Follows —–

That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot

conclude from such a study that opiates CAUSE brain

damage, rather it is evidence that such drug use is

ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference

between those two things.

For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain

damage. Let’s say for some reason, cocaine users like

to >>wear baggie pants. If you did a study like this one,

then >>you would find that wearing baggy pants is

associated >>with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie

pants >>themselves do not cause the brain damage, they

are just >>correlated with something that does, i.e. the

cocaine >>use. In this study you posted, there is no way

to tell if >>the opiates cause the brain damage or just

happen to be >>correlated with something else that does,

like maybe poor >>nutrition or lack of sleep or

something. >>

And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first

because it studied twice as many drug users as it did

non-users. But more importantly, this sample of people

died very young and therefore do not represent the

general population. Even if you did find that opiates

cause brain damage in this specific population, that

doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.

In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage,

a >>great deal more research would have to be done. The

only >>thing this study provides is a reason to pursue

further >>such research.

Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than

good research.

As far as addiction in general, it seems as though

addiction results from a number of factors. One of

these >>factors is changes in brain chemistry resulting

from long >>term consumption of certain drugs, but

“changes in the >>brain” is not the same thing as “brain

damage”. >>

Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve

damage. >>>Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are

scarred by >>>physical form of opioid type molecules .

Modern >>>Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that

so they >>

can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is

easy >>

to start believing that opiates wont hurt your

nerve

system:

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html

From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500

Logan Palis wrote:

Teeth decay is connected to several factors on

opiates. Saliva glend >>> is just one of organs that do

not function properly when on opiates >>> for most

people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that

makes >>

teeth root from within. >>

Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.

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_______ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new

MSN

Search!

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Nick

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:23:22 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Should i stop communicating as Capt KIrk? ;o)

does it really matter?

—– Original Message Follows —–

Maybe stop this whole “Koko” thing, Ron. Just start

communicating from the heart, as YOU.

Nick

—–Original Message—–

From: koko [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]

Sent: 30 December 2005 19:20

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse

klown >

thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a

benign email to the forum but instead was interpreted as

more pity party. man, i’m way off. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse

klown >

—–Original Message—–

From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]

Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb

arse klown >>

HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED

PROVIDER SOON. pROBLEM, >> BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO

TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN >> MANAGEMENT…….

CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE

LOCAL CONSTABLE AND >> PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS.

WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF >> BUP 2 WEEKS

DOIN OXYS. MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING

FOR A >> SEASONED VET WE

ALL KNOW. I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A

TRICK. >> PROBLEM, WHEN

IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT

THE PIECES BACK. i >> COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK

TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY >> CATCH WHAT I

HAD. IT BEAT MY ASS. JUST WONDERING FROM THE

COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS

LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY

AGE, NOT ALLOWING >> ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL

THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME. NO >> WITHDRAWALS

OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT

SO DEPLETED >> AFTERWARDS I

COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF

TOGETHER AGAIN >> PHYSICALLY. ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT

INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN >> AND STILL AM.

MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A

PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER

SOME ONE HELP DURING THE NEW YEAR. AS I LOOK OVER

SOME OF MY >> COMMENTS TO

THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron

GOTTA START >> SOMEWHERE

SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’ THE PLUG ON

ME. ‘DONE IS BEING >> DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS.

AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT >> WHICH IS

VERY CONFUSING. NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK OUTPATIENT

W/ AN ADDICT >> TO DETOX( I

UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND

THE ONLY >> ONES W/ KAUNAS

BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS

COST PROHIBITVE ON A

REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON.

ALL THOSE WERE >> MET ON THE

LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN

A SOUTHERN >> FRIED PHRASE

FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL.

koko >

Ron,

It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this

colossal “poor me” trip you’re on. It’s not just up to

the treatment, whether ibogaine or whatever, to help

you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to

do.

YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that

starts with beginning

to communicate from the position of a individual that

takes personal responsibility for himself, not as some

tragic victim of life. >

Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through

your mind. Drop them

and start communicating without all the “poor me”

subtext. Actually it’s just a colossal ego trip and

underneath you are as angry as hell. >

Nick

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Ron

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:21:09 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for this Ron. Don’t know about others, but it always

helps to know a bit of background about people. Yours has

been a hard road by the sounds, what do you mean when you

say the ibo kicked your ass? I don’t think i’ve heard you

talk about the session much… I would be interested to know

what happened, thats if you want to talk about it.

anyway big hugs from the Captain. Stick with the list for

sure. Don’t let anyone chase you off. It’s helped me so

much and it can help you too. You’ll get there, i know you

will. Depression sux big time. I’m actually glad i went

thru it, it’s helped me understand so much.

Take care of u

Luff heaps

Kirk xx

—– Original Message Follows —–

Thanks for the interest in my sitch. I’m on bup. Been

unhappy for 4 yrs. since I started using again after 15+

yrs. toal sobriety( no mood or mind altering drugs ‘cept

coffee) . Bup was pitched to me as a way to get off

oxys. I was off the chart. I was told stuff was not

addicting or at least “not very” whatever that means. It

was later approved as a means for maintenance and then the

facts started comming down…longer half life than meth,

bitch to kick, you know the drill. I picked up after

surgery and went to the races b/4 the bup.. My tolerances

went back to 70’s level and more and I was doing 12 80 mg.

oxys a day. That’s the equiv. of about 192

percocets/tylox a day. Once I switched to bup, which is an

art in itself after doing so many oxys, my tolerance for

that stuff went to the moon when the med. est. said one

doesn’t acquire a tolerance for bup. When I did my

session that I was really looking forward too, I was

treated by lay people from the list that had ben maligned

by the pros and treated great. Everyone that’s been

around knows him. He helped me finally get off benzos

which was another story, but the IBO d/n take or I did not

take the IBO. It beat me up or something did. No opiate

w/ds( i had switched back to oxys for 2 weeks b/4 the

journey), but the experience kicked my arse. As stated

sometime ago, I allowed myself 10 days for this which was

not nearly enough time. I d/n know if it was the long

lasting drugs I was taking b/4 the session or my age (56)

but I could barrely walk. when I went to work everyone

looked at my like I was death eating a biscuit, c/n think,

c/n function in my profession and bingo, I was popping bup

again. instant relief and the depression started

immediately. I went from hope to whad da fuck happened.?

My pessimissim, cynicism , fears, self pity all went

hywire as you guys have seen this last yr. If you asked

me, ron, would you like to offend about 100 or so people

that want you well and tick people off, I’d say no way. I

d/n want to be offensive to anyone. I have spent the last

20 yrs. helping indigent people that cops screw over and

who screw themselves over. Kept a few off death row. Now

my career stagnat es as I limit what I do when in this

state when those I work with have so much at stake. So,

there it is…not everyone likes everyone else to state it

simply. That’s why they make Fords and Chevys I guess. I

will stay with list as long as folks can stomach me and

hopefully contribute something meaningful. Older I get

the less I realize I know. An addict’s basement today can

be tomorrow’s penthouse. Sure hope I and everyone else

seeking to stay straight make it. It is a life

threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped

away for a week session and then began sleeping like

babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse

klown

In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central

Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:

how can koko be responsible for

feeling like hell after a session?

I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so

honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit

after trying something that everyone else has had positive

result from.

Nothing is 100 %.

Are you unhappy on Methadone?

When is the last time you felt happy? What was your

situation at that time?

Callie

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>

Subject: [Ibogaine] alternative theory of intelligent design

Date: December 31, 2005 at 9:39:42 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.venganza.org/

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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Subject: an alternative Intelligent Design theory

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:02:44 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HA ha ha! The second time today I read something hilarious about IDT –

weird!

brenda

On 12/31/05 6:51 PM, “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

It’s at

http://www.venganza.org/

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Subject: an alternative Intelligent Design theory

Date: December 31, 2005 at 9:51:10 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s at

http://www.venganza.org/

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>

Subject: [Ibogaine] All wired up, ain’t gonna take no more!

Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:52:20 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hackers Rebel Against Spy Cams

author: Ann Harrison / Wired News

Dec 29, 2005 19:08

When the Austrian government passed a law this year allowing police to

install closed-circuit surveillance cameras in public spaces without a court

order, the Austrian civil liberties group Quintessenz vowed to watch the

watchers.

Members of the organization worked out a way to intercept the camera images

with an inexpensive, 1-GHz satellite receiver. The signal could then be

descrambled using hardware designed to enhance copy-protected video as it’s

transferred from DVD to VHS tape.

The Quintessenz activists then began figuring out how to blind the cameras

with balloons, lasers and infrared devices.

And, just for fun, the group created an anonymous surveillance system that

uses face-recognition software to place a black stripe over the eyes of

people whose images are recorded.

Quintessenz members Adrian Dabrowski and Martin Slunksy presented their

video-surveillance research at the 22nd annual Chaos Communication Congress

here this week. Five hundred hackers jammed into a meeting room for a

presentation that fit nicely into CCC’s 2005 theme of “private

investigations.”

Slunksy pointed out that searching for special strings in Google, such as

axis-cgi/, will return links that access internet-connected cameras around

the world. Quintessenz developers entered these Google results into a

database, analyzed the IP addresses and set up a website that gives users

the ability to search by country or topic — and then rate the cameras.

“You can use this to see if you are being watched in your daily life,” said

Dabrowski.

The conference, hosted by Germany’s Chaos Computer Club, featured many

discussions on data interception and pushing back the unprecedented

onslaught of surveillance technologies.

Even the Dutch, once known as hacker-friendly, politically progressive

Europeans, are now fearful and demanding more cameras on their streets, said

Rop Gonggrijp, founder of Dutch ISP Xs4All.

Gonggrijp says the Dutch chief of police has announced the intention to

store large amounts of surveillance data and mine it to determine who to

pressure and question. “People are screaming for more control,” said

Gonggrijp.

Dutch journalist Brenno de Winter warned that the European Parliament’s

support for data retention doesn’t ensure security, and makes citizens

vulnerable to automated traffic analysis of who communicates with whom

through phone calls and internet connections. “What we have seen is a system

that fails because we miss out on too much information, and even if we have

all that information, it doesn’t give us the right information and it is

easy to circumvent,” said de Winter.

CCC member and security researcher Frank Rieger said hackers should provide

secure communications for political and social movements and encourage the

widespread use of anonymity technologies. He said people on the other side

of the camera need to be laughed at and shamed.

“It must not be cool anymore to have access to this data,” said Rieger, who

argued that Western societies are becoming democratically legitimized police

states ruled by an unaccountable elite. “We have enough technical knowledge

to turn this around; let’s expose them in public, publish everything we know

about them and let them know how it feels to be under surveillance.”

The four-day Chaos Computer Congress is meeting near Alexanderplatz in the

former East Berlin, where more than a half-million people rallied for

political reform five days before the fall of the Berlin Wall.

In his keynote address, Joichi Ito, general manager of international

operations for Technorati, warned that the internet could itself become a

walled-in network controlled by the International Telecommunication Union,

Microsoft and telecommunications companies.

Ito said these restrictions would stifle free speech and the ability to

question authority without retribution. “An open network is more important

for democracy than the right to bear arms and the right to vote,” said Ito.

“Voice is more important than votes.”

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/1,69942-0.html

From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!

Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:04:30 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ahahah… good point, maybe that wasn’t the best example to use =)

captkirk wrote:

Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy

Pants.

From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am talking

Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they do in some

way cause nerve and/or brain damage.

Luff lite n Lafta

to all

Happy noo yeahsss

I have showered for the last time this year.

yahoo.

Kirk xxx

—– Original Message Follows —–

That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot

conclude from such a study that opiates CAUSE brain

damage, rather it is evidence that such drug use is

ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference between those two things.

For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain

damage. Let’s say for some reason, cocaine users like to

wear baggie pants. If you did a study like this one, then

you would find that wearing baggy pants is associated

with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants

themselves do not cause the brain damage, they are just

correlated with something that does, i.e. the cocaine

use. In this study you posted, there is no way to tell if

the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor

nutrition or lack of sleep or something.

And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first

because it studied twice as many drug users as it did

non-users. But more importantly, this sample of people

died very young and therefore do not represent the general population. Even if you did find that opiates

cause brain damage in this specific population, that

doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.

In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a

great deal more research would have to be done. The only

thing this study provides is a reason to pursue further

such research.

Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than

good research.

As far as addiction in general, it seems as though

addiction results from a number of factors. One of these

factors is changes in brain chemistry resulting from long

term consumption of certain drugs, but “changes in the

brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.

Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage.

Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by

physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern

Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they

can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy

to start believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve

system: http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html

From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500

Logan Palis wrote:

Teeth decay is connected to several factors on

opiates. Saliva glend >>> is just one of organs that do

not function properly when on opiates >>> for most

people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes

teeth root from within. >>

Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.

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__________________________________________________________

_______ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN

Search!

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode

Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:20:12 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

i love burroughs… he’s

definately a big

inspiration for me, and i think he definately offers

a lot to learn from.

i just mean that he didn’t exactly lead the happiest

or healthiest

life… so if you’re goal is to be happy and

healthy, you’d probably

wanna pass on some of the things he did..

you know, supressing your homosexuality for 30 or 40

years, murdering

you wife, having to watch your only son die of

alcoholism at half your

age… not exactly keys to a blissful existence

there =)

but then, few geniuses are happy people…

Burroughs Rehab:

well,

Compaired to 12 steps, anything sounds good,

but it could work

in practice as a tool

eXspecially works if

your not gay, never been married, and don’t have a

son, so I didn’t focus much on that part of it I

guess.

But he was healthy, physically lived to old age.

Smart Feller who Got to Nod plenty. Good for him I

guess.

I’m sure met some unknowing ibogaine subjects in

Lexington during his stay there but

who’s to say…

I still haven’t tracked down the address for the old

ft.worth narcotic farm.

but to be honest I’ve never read one burroughs book

ever from cover to cover without falling asleep fast.

most “beat writers” are too homo erotic for my taste.

Sounds more like MichaL (come sit my lap) Jackson’s

cup of tea then anything that can keep my interest

longer then 7 seconds.

The interviews are a little interesting though I guess

oh and the yage letters:

“maybe yage will be the final kick”

I’d like to find “the third mind” if I run across it.

Cheers and New Yearz

-Jason

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:52:58 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Koko – not to judge you at all, but just imagine if someone else stood over you constantly and said the sorts of things to you that you seem to say to yourself all day. I agree with Nick that you’d want to KILL the person. Self talk is huge (in my humble opinion.) I know it sounds trite as hell, but my life really did change when I took Oprah Winfrey’s suggestion to write (or even speak aloud at night before bed) 5 things I was grateful for that day. It might be a kiss from my dog, or a good meal, a beautiful view of a cloud passing by – just that simple.

I have a bad habit of always giving advice, but can’t help it here. It doesn’t cost much to give it a try, and I only support it because this bit helped me more than I could’ve imagined. Best to you Ron. I know you feel lousy and I wish you could feel better…

Sandy

From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:42:09 -0800

>On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

> >> man, i’m way off.

> >

> > If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

> > again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

> >

>Sure. Perhaps,

>It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to

>give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.

>Keep hangin’ in Koko.

>brenda

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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: December 31, 2005 at 4:07:10 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on methadone, from all the way up to a 100 millgrams where I stayed a very short time (a month or two) down to the 40 I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day, I was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining that 40 miolgrams was “too much,” except that considering I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin, I suppose any methadone is “too much” in that particular context and viewpoint.

sweating is a pretty common side effect of opiates in general…

i sweat like a pig when i’m on (recreational doses of) any opiate, even codeine…

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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:55:31 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This begs the question of how Ron can learn to get what he needs on

the Internet. He keeps repeating the same behavior and drawing the

same responses from people since some time before you showed up.

Your response is that the world needs to change to accommodate Ron.

My response is that Ron needs to be more aware of what he is doing

if he wants to avoid such reactions.

It’s ironic that your skepticism is in response to the only person

who looked beyond his masochistic display and answered his

question.

I can see that. This was a much more thoughtful treatment and I get what

you are saying. I wasn’t really getting it from your original post. It

felt like flat out criticism to me. I also don’t judge people from their

posts and honestly, I was responding to your post, not to you, if that makes

sense.

As far as the comment that I think the world needs to change for Ron, I

think that’s a pretty broad interpretation of what I wrote. It’s not what I

meant.

Anyhoo, I hope everyone has a great day! I love my life! Lorena rocks, too

🙂 She’s putting some quarters in the meter and I’m wrapping up this reply

I started a while ago.

Take it easy,

brenda

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From: Jeff G <jeffgallop@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown (to Callie)

Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:47:06 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron

I have been reading this list for a couple of years now and i dont remember one person who “slipped away for a week, did a session and slept like babies afterward. I seem to recall many a post-treatment reports from many folks who were dealing with sleplessness, fatigue, and more …As much as fucking miracle this root is it aint a week and your ‘fixed’ and i dont recall reading or even hearing anyone say it was. And i would appreciate you refreshing mine/our memories if I am wrong

Happy New Year

Jeff

On 12/31/05, koko <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

It is a life threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped away for a week session and then began sleeping like babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:

how can koko be responsible for

feeling like hell after a session?

I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.

Nothing is 100 %.

Are you unhappy on Methadone?

When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?

Callie

From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode

Date: December 31, 2005 at 3:44:02 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Jon, you usually are one of the most on the mark

people on this list but your remark on burroughs is

way off. the answer is buried in there, Gysin

Whatever. Whanna collaborate on a cut up ibogaine

paper.

oh don’t get me wrong… i love burroughs… he’s definately a big inspiration for me, and i think he definately offers a lot to learn from.

i just mean that he didn’t exactly lead the happiest or healthiest life… so if you’re goal is to be happy and healthy, you’d probably wanna pass on some of the things he did..

you know, supressing your homosexuality for 30 or 40 years, murdering you wife, having to watch your only son die of alcoholism at half your age… not exactly keys to a blissful existence there =)

but then, few geniuses are happy people…

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 2:19:35 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 16:42:09 -0800 brenda brewer

<shakti@photon.net> wrote:

On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

man, i’m way off.

If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

Sure. Perhaps,

It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed

enough to

give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.

This begs the question of how Ron can learn to get what he needs on

the Internet. He keeps repeating the same behavior and drawing the

same responses from people since some time before you showed up.

Your response is that the world needs to change to accommodate Ron.

My response is that Ron needs to be more aware of what he is doing

if he wants to avoid such reactions.

It’s ironic that your skepticism is in response to the only person

who looked beyond his masochistic display and answered his

question.

Keep hangin’ in Koko.

brenda

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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown(to Randy)

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:28:08 AM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the well reasoned thoughtful insight. Man< I wish I had the time but work is leaning heavy on me and I don’t have a war chest. Best wishes for the new year, ron

—– Original Message —–

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2 months. I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about 2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says, “at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.” So your on bupe again, ‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own shots in the end. Randy

From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown (for Brenda)

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:30:26 AM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, ron

—– Original Message —– From: “brenda brewer” <shakti@photon.net>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 6:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

man, i’m way off.

If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

Sure. Perhaps,

It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to

give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.

Keep hangin’ in Koko.

brenda

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From: Edfriedrichs@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Dr Ed

Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:37:21 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx for your support of my “theory.” I wish I knew of someone who was experi-menting on this hypothesis, but I don’t. I offered it ten years ago at the NIH in D.C. and to Dr. Mash, but no responses. They are all wrapped up in the “modern” micro-analysis of brain centers and chemicals. I prefer a macro-analysis of “normal healing mechanisms” of the brain, such as Sleep. Many primitive societies have been fascinated with Dreams, Native Americans prize them. Perhaps I’ve got to get to some of the national meetings on the subject and ask questions. Please take care. Dr. Ed

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:30:48 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/31/2005 12:27:20 AM Central Standard Time, jfreed1@umbc.edu writes:

cocaine users like to wear baggie pants.

LMFAO!!!!

JFreed, I love you!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:05:58 AM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe stop this whole “Koko” thing, Ron. Just start communicating from the

heart, as YOU.

Nick

—–Original Message—–

From: koko [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]

Sent: 30 December 2005 19:20

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email to the

forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party. man, i’m

way off. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

—–Original Message—–

From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]

Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON. pROBLEM,

BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN

MANAGEMENT…….

CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE AND

PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS. WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF

BUP 2 WEEKS

DOIN OXYS. MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A

SEASONED VET WE

ALL KNOW. I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.

PROBLEM, WHEN

IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK. i

COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY

CATCH WHAT I

HAD. IT BEAT MY ASS. JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE

WISDOM OF THIS

LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING

ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME. NO

WITHDRAWALS

OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED

AFTERWARDS I

COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN

PHYSICALLY. ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN

AND STILL AM.

MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN

AND OFFER

SOME ONE HELP DURING THE NEW YEAR. AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY

COMMENTS TO

THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron GOTTA START

SOMEWHERE

SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’ THE PLUG ON ME. ‘DONE IS BEING

DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS. AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT

WHICH IS

VERY CONFUSING. NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT

TO DETOX( I

UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY

ONES W/ KAUNAS

BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST

PROHIBITVE ON A

REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON. ALL THOSE WERE

MET ON THE

LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN

FRIED PHRASE

FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko

Ron,

It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”

trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or

whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes,

YOU) have to

do.

YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with

beginning

to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal

responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.

Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your

mind. Drop them

and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s

just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.

Nick

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode

Date: December 31, 2005 at 11:03:56 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/31/05 8:38:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, morning_wood263@yahoo.com writes:

Is anyone goine to record the new talk in New York??

J, I’ll be there and I bet it will be recorded in a couple of different formats. I’ll ask around and see for sure. Randy

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Case Study Research

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:45:21 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’ll be two years for me in March.. I was on heroin/oxycontin for about 3 years, then got on methadone at 100mgs a day, for over 3 years.. I did Iboga in march of 04, so this year will be 2 years clean from opiates. I haven’t had any problems, although, for the first couple weeks after, I needed to take it easy and regain my vigor.. After 2 months, I felt pretty much normal, and now I feel like I never had a problem…

lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Dear List,

Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.

The research study is looking at Ibogaine as an anti-addictive treatment with individuals who responded to one time administration. I am looking for individuals who have maintained abstinence for 2 years, after their first session from their drug of choice.

I have already interviewed 14 people, who were opiate dependent, and 1 alcohol dependent individual who fit the ideal criteria of the study. I am looking for six more individuals who have gone through an Ibogaine treatment for opiate use and/or dependency, and/or people who have undergone Ibogaine for stimulant or alcohol use or dependency.

This is a small scale study with the main objective being to bring awareness to the general population of the treatment potentials of Ibogaine. A one-time administration of Ibogaine has worked for those I have interviewed. These may be exceptions to the rule, and I would welcome further discussion on this topic if you are interested in posting. I am fascinated with stories of how we break our addictions (chemical or not).

Much Appreciated!

Lorena

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>

Subject: [Ibogaine] please help SOS help::: Calling all Agents, Doctors, Scientists and publishers of medical journals SOS

Date: December 31, 2005 at 7:56:19 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am currently

trying to find studies of opiates/opioids

used as anti-psychotic

or especially during

in TBI (Tramatic Brain Injury).

Any help would really be swell.

Oh and I’m pretty sure Dana Beal is the anti-Christ or

maybe it was George Bush, or both who knows, (who says

it’s limited to one person) I honestly don’t recall.

But I’d love access to the NSA audio to have” fun fun

fun”

Regarding guarding about things, the delema seems to

be morphing into the very thing that trying to protect

against.

For me it ‘s fucking George White.

The pure personification of Evil.

Satan is George White.

But in trying to protect oneself from George White

one becomes him or at least partially so.

“you aremn

t making any sense and your spellikng sucks.”

Well go fuck yoursl;ef then or spend more time alone

on the internet since it seems to work so well for

yiouo alreadty you ignorant fujcking monkey to open

every door.

type individuals that exist one has to welcome and

or 4 or 5 moves ahead. So goddamn predictable it’s

pathetic. Just make the whole thing a worldwide

reality show and watch us blow ourselves up for our

own amusement.

But seriouslly,

any

double blind

studies

regarding opioids

used as treatment of

Tramatic Brain Injury

would be supa cool.

I need your help.

Thank you

You Rock

Your beautiful

Kiss hug cuddle cuddle cuddle

__________________________________

Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.

http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:22:57 AM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don:

you are a shining example of what I don’t want to be if I ever get straight. thanks for the reminders. However, each has there own way and you are free to take shots at me everytime I step out on this list. Have at bro’, it’s good target practice for other’s who aren’t as self actualized as you. I can tell by your insightful comments you’ve been straight for a long time and actually appreciate the constructive criticism you always offer. Many thanks. I’m working on my new Mavis Bacon typing program to get in step, lest my font rub you the wrong way. peace, you win and well wishes for the new year, ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Don Patton

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 9:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Now, I’m not developed, ahh.Cuckoo for cocoa puffs, gimme a hug, Ron!

brenda brewer wrote:

On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

man, i’m way off.

If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

Sure. Perhaps,

It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to

give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.

Keep hangin’ in Koko.

brenda

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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown (to Callie)

Date: December 31, 2005 at 10:04:57 AM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the interest in my sitch. I’m on bup. Been unhappy for 4 yrs. since I started using again after 15+ yrs. toal sobriety( no mood or mind altering drugs ‘cept coffee) . Bup was pitched to me as a way to get off oxys. I was off the chart. I was told stuff was not addicting or at least “not very” whatever that means. It was later approved as a means for maintenance and then the facts started comming down…longer half life than meth, bitch to kick, you know the drill. I picked up after surgery and went to the races b/4 the bup.. My tolerances went back to 70’s level and more and I was doing 12 80 mg. oxys a day. That’s the equiv. of about 192 percocets/tylox a day. Once I switched to bup, which is an art in itself after doing so many oxys, my tolerance for that stuff went to the moon when the med. est. said one doesn’t acquire a tolerance for bup. When I did my session that I was really looking forward too, I was treated by lay people from the list that had ben maligned by the pros and treated great. Everyone that’s been around knows him. He helped me finally get off benzos which was another story, but the IBO d/n take or I did not take the IBO.

It beat me up or something did. No opiate w/ds( i had switched back to oxys for 2 weeks b/4 the journey), but the experience kicked my arse. As stated sometime ago, I allowed myself 10 days for this which was not nearly enough time. I d/n know if it was the long lasting drugs I was taking b/4 the session or my age (56) but I could barrely walk. when I went to work everyone looked at my like I was death eating a biscuit, c/n think, c/n function in my profession and bingo, I was popping bup again. instant relief and the depression started immediately. I went from hope to whad da fuck happened.? My pessimissim, cynicism , fears, self pity all went hywire as you guys have seen this last yr. If you asked me, ron, would you like to offend about 100 or so people that want you well and tick people off, I’d say no way. I d/n want to be offensive to anyone. I have spent the last 20 yrs. helping indigent people that cops screw over and who screw themselves over. Kept a few off death row. Now my career stagnates as I limit what I do when in this state when those I work with have so much at stake. So, there it is…not everyone likes everyone else to state it simply. That’s why they make Fords and Chevys I guess. I will stay with list as long as folks can stomach me and hopefully contribute something meaningful. Older I get the less I realize I know. An addict’s basement today can be tomorrow’s penthouse. Sure hope I and everyone else seeking to stay straight make it. It is a life threatening deal for me and I cheer for those that slipped away for a week session and then began sleeping like babies afterwards. Actually, I envy them. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:

how can koko be responsible for

feeling like hell after a session?

I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.

Nothing is 100 %.

Are you unhappy on Methadone?

When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?

Callie

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>

Subject: [Ibogaine] don’t read or you will explode

Date: December 31, 2005 at 8:19:18 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the exact problem is the requirement by any

establishment that is willing to prescribe any

realistic doses of opioids to have a policy of already

having being addicted, addicted in the sense of

already haveing a tolerence.

If I have 260mg of methadone a day that I wasn’t

REQUIRED to take everyday then things would work. but

Pain managmemnt cliknics aren’t going to likke hearing

ao but my past with methadone or perhaps why bring it

up. It is all solme fucked up game . I’m feelikng

like Ron right now. Hope your doling well by the Way.

Send me some heroin soon. I know yiour good for it.

So help me find a scientific excuse for using

prescribption opiates agiaine already !!!!!!!!!!

and not fucking methadone….I do not feel; like that

bore againe and the power trip by staff is beyond

sadistic.

And Jon, you usually are one of the most on the mark

people on this list but your remark on burroughs is

way off. the answer is buried in there, Gysin

Whatever. Whanna collaborate on a cut up ibogaine

paper.

Is anyone goine to record the new talk in New York??

Why not???????

__________________________________________

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.

Just $16.99/mo. or less.

dsl.yahoo.com

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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study

Date: December 30, 2005 at 5:13:23 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.

Much Appreciated!

Lori

Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:13:42 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeh so somene else said…obviously it doesnt agree with

everyone and YES i agree we should get drug of choice what

the helll is the big drama with that, Liverpool in England,

if i remember rightly had heroin programs.. maybe you shuld

move cuntries? lol

cunt-try of a thing really isn’t it ;o)

i considre myself lucky to feel as normal as i do on this

shit. I’ve had hormone imbalances of progesterone that cause

nasty excessive sweating so i can relate to that it fucking

sux.

did u try lower than 40 mgs and did u feel comfortable on

that amount? i dont know… just asking 🙂 xx

happy noooooooooooo yeahsssssssss

Kia Kaha (stay strong)

and loads of

AROHA (love)

to everyone here xx

—– Original Message Follows —–

Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a

dose…..<

I had the sweating issue the entire time I was on

methadone, from all the way up to a 100 millgrams where I

stayed a very short time (a month or two) down to the 40

I stayed at for just over 2 years. Even at just 40 a day,

I was sweating profusedly, but have trouble imagining

that 40 miolgrams was “too much,” except that considering

I prefer the idea of prescribed heroin, I suppose any

methadone is “too much” in that particular context and

viewpoint.

Peace and love,

Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for

enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient

Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to

Drugs” Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

—– Original Message —–

From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:46 PM

Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone

The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that

it dries up the saliva in the mouth, which has anti

toof rotting stuff in it (god im so medical, I stun

myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems.

Chewing gum is good for people on the done to help

protect the teeth….although im

iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything

these days.. >

I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend

takeaways. Once a week!! Ooooo luxury!! Lol. I was

determined this time to not be on it for long.. and as

it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on.

My counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents

and sleeping bags to people in more remote areas who

were without aid to date. Just to give an idea the type

of human being she is. She also wants to come see me

during the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into

eastern style stuff, meditation , Buddhism etc. new

doctor at clinic is into alternative therapies.. (thnk

I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a

bitch!!) Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the

methadone clinics around the

world.

Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a

dose…..it shouldn’t be a

normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know

what else they put in

yours. Ours is pingable.

Ok late for work already

Eek

Kirk xxx

See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)

/]=——————————————————-

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Rocky

Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:05:22 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hye rocky good to see u still about

just send a blank email to ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

then sign up under your new one sweetas prot a noblem

happy noo yeahs

—– Original Message Follows —–

patrick thank you and will come back on alternative

account ,would like to unsubscribe under this email

adress

———————————

Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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From: captkirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: [Ibogaine] baggy pants and nerve damage!!!!

Date: December 31, 2005 at 5:03:00 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually I would LIke to dispute this claim about Baggy

Pants.

From my experience of Baggy Pants wearers (and I am talking

Crack oh Bum Show) I have to conclude that they do in some

way cause nerve and/or brain damage.

Luff lite n Lafta

to all

Happy noo yeahsss

I have showered for the last time this year.

yahoo.

Kirk xxx

—– Original Message Follows —–

That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot

conclude from such a study that opiates CAUSE brain

damage, rather it is evidence that such drug use is

ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference

between those two things.

For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain

damage. Let’s say for some reason, cocaine users like to

wear baggie pants. If you did a study like this one, then

you would find that wearing baggy pants is associated

with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants

themselves do not cause the brain damage, they are just

correlated with something that does, i.e. the cocaine

use. In this study you posted, there is no way to tell if

the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be

correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor

nutrition or lack of sleep or something.

And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first

because it studied twice as many drug users as it did

non-users. But more importantly, this sample of people

died very young and therefore do not represent the

general population. Even if you did find that opiates

cause brain damage in this specific population, that

doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.

In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a

great deal more research would have to be done. The only

thing this study provides is a reason to pursue further

such research.

Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than

good research.

As far as addiction in general, it seems as though

addiction results from a number of factors. One of these

factors is changes in brain chemistry resulting from long

term consumption of certain drugs, but “changes in the

brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.

Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage.

Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by

physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern

Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they

can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy

to start believing that opiates wont hurt your nerve

system:

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html

From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500

Logan Palis wrote:

Teeth decay is connected to several factors on

opiates. Saliva glend >>> is just one of organs that do

not function properly when on opiates >>> for most

people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes

teeth root from within. >>

Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.

/]=——————————————————-

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__________________________________________________________

_______ Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN

Search!

http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:58:24 AM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..<

Peace and love,

Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”

Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History”

Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

Editor http://www.drugwar.com

Cont. High Times mag/.com

Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

Columnist New York Waste

Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Kirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:46 PM

Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone

The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that it dries up the

saliva in the mouth, which has anti toof rotting stuff in it (god im so

medical, I stun myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. Chewing

gum is good for people on the done to help protect the teeth….although im

iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything these days..

I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend takeaways. Once a week!!

Ooooo luxury!! Lol. I was determined this time to not be on it for long..

and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went back on. My

counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand out Tents and sleeping bags to

people in more remote areas who were without aid to date. Just to give an

idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to come see me during

the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern style stuff,

meditation , Buddhism etc. new doctor at clinic is into alternative

therapies.. (thnk I’ve said all this shit before?? Lol old age is a bitch!!)

Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the methadone clinics around the

world.

Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a dose…..it shouldn’t be a

normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know what else they put in

yours. Ours is pingable.

Ok late for work already

Eek

Kirk xxx

See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Case Study Research

Date: December 30, 2005 at 8:43:21 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.

Much Appreciated!

Lorena

Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:54:50 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cc: shakti@photon.ne

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It goes through, that means you are still subscribed.

Mailing lists that try to conform to RFC’s mark the email as

“precendence: bulk” some spam systems will then take the email and put

it into the bulk or spam folder, yahoo does this a lot, hotmail,etc.

If nothing is replying to you, it is but you’re not seeing it. You need

to go to bulk or spam, click on one message and mark it as not spam, or

from: ibogaine@mindvox.com is not spam.

.:vector:.

— brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:

I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to

unsubscribe

but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.

Thanks,

brenda

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__________________________________________

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.

Just $16.99/mo. or less.

dsl.yahoo.com

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From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: December 30, 2005 at 2:18:16 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That study is correlational, not causal. One cannot conclude from such a study that opiates CAUSE brain damage, rather it is evidence that such drug use is ASSOCIATED with brain damage. There’s a big difference between those two things.

For example, we do know that cocaine can cause brain damage. Let’s say for some reason, cocaine users like to wear baggie pants. If you did a study like this one, then you would find that wearing baggy pants is associated with brain damage. But obviously, the baggie pants themselves do not cause the brain damage, they are just correlated with something that does, i.e. the cocaine use. In this study you posted, there is no way to tell if the opiates cause the brain damage or just happen to be correlated with something else that does, like maybe poor nutrition or lack of sleep or something.

And this isn’t even a particularly good study, first because it studied twice as many drug users as it did non-users. But more importantly, this sample of people died very young and therefore do not represent the general population. Even if you did find that opiates cause brain damage in this specific population, that doesn’t mean it appies to everyone else.

In order to establish that opiates cause neural damage, a great deal more research would have to be done. The only thing this study provides is a reason to pursue further such research.

Frankly, it sounds a lot more like scare-mongering than good research.

As far as addiction in general, it seems as though addiction results from a number of factors. One of these factors is changes in brain chemistry resulting from long term consumption of certain drugs, but “changes in the brain” is not the same thing as “brain damage”.

Actually, addiction is a result of partial nerve damage. Damage of nerve cell receptor sites that are scarred by physical form of opioid type molecules . Modern Pharmaceutical industry would like to hide that so they can sell as much pain killers as they produce. It is easy to start believing that opiates won’t hurt your nerve system:

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/sa/a/blue050621.htm

http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002848.html

From: jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 21:50:26 -0500

Logan Palis wrote:

Teeth decay is connected to several factors on opiates. Saliva glend is just one of organs that do not function properly when on opiates for most people. But the biggest problem is nerv damage that makes teeth root from within.

Ummm. Opiates do not cause nerve damage.

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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_________________________________________________________________

Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] please unsubscribe

Date: December 31, 2005 at 1:11:15 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subscribe to the ibogaine list: send email (with any subject) to:

ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com

To get OFF this list:

ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

If you want a general list of options and features, send mail to:

ibogaine-help@mindvox.com

To subscribe to the list in digest format, send mail to:

ibogaine-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com

ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com> wrote:

patrick thank you and will come back on alternative account ,would like to unsubscribe under this email adress

Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:49:07 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/30/2005 9:15:31 PM Central Standard Time, SuperBee@Tstar.net writes:

yES, ASKING rON TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT IS ONLY MY ALTER-EGO SPEAKING. sORRY

you are a bit of a smart ass, aren’t you? and totally inappropriate right now. you sometimes appear very intelligent although always ‘a little out in left field’ but these reactions to Ron are totally inappropriate. IMO of course. lol!

it takes all kinds of folk to make this life interesting…..i just really wonder why you can’t make room for ron!

no need to apologize.

callie

From: ROCKYM CARAVELLI <rockymcaravelli@yahoo.com>

Subject: [Ibogaine] please unsubscribe

Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:12:07 PM EST

To: list <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

patrick thank you and will come back on alternative account ,would like to unsubscribe under this email adress

Yahoo! for Good – Make a difference this year.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 31, 2005 at 12:40:27 AM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/30/2005 3:59:32 PM Central Standard Time, rwd3@cox.net writes:

how can koko be responsible for

feeling like hell after a session?

I’m not sure Ron. I am really happy that you are so honest. It takes a lot of guts to say I feel like shit after trying something that everyone else has had positive result from.

Nothing is 100 %.

Are you unhappy on Methadone?

When is the last time you felt happy? What was your situation at that time?

Callie

From: <slowone@hush.ai>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:36:22 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Follow the unsubscribe instructions from the acct you want to

cancel:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 15:09:44 -0800 Mark Corcoran

<mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:

I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the

list on this email address?

————————-

From: _BiscuitBoy714@aol.com_

Reply-To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_

To: _ibogaine@mindvox.com_

Subject: _Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study_

Date: _Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST_

In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two

years or more. What a concept! lol

Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to

quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the

study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK

I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious. Good luck Randy

————————-

3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full

details and to sign-up now![1]

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From: lori m <loriibo@yahoo.ca>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Case Study

Date: December 30, 2005 at 11:50:07 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

Thanks, to everyone who e-mailed me requesting more information on the study.

Much Appreciated!

Lorena

Find your next car at Yahoo! Canada Autos

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:28:36 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subscribe to the ibogaine list: send email (with any subject) to:

ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com

To get OFF this list:

ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

If you want a general list of options and features, send mail to:

ibogaine-help@mindvox.com

To subscribe to the list in digest format, send mail to:

ibogaine-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com

Mark Corcoran <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com> wrote:

I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study

Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST

In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol

Wait a minute, does this mean I can’t do my follow up treatment to quit smoking cigs. I’ll be left outta the study…………………shut up and take your Ibogaine Randy! OK I’ll stop screwing around now, this is serious. Good luck Randy

3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Yahoo! Shopping

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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 10:18:54 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now, I’m not developed, ahh.Cuckoo for cocoa puffs, gimme a hug, Ron!

brenda brewer wrote:

On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

man, i’m way off.

If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

Sure. Perhaps,

It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to

give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.

Keep hangin’ in Koko.

brenda

/]=———————————————————————=[\

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From: Don Patton <SuperBee@Tstar.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 10:14:30 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yES, ASKING rON TO ACT LIKE AN ADULT IS ONLY MY ALTER-EGO SPEAKING. sORRY..

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:

Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group

> by being honest and mature with us.

Gotta take up for Koko here! I think you were being honest and the only thing that seemed immature is your reference to yourself as a ‘Klown’ but it doesn’t bother me at all. If you want to be a ‘Klown’, be a ‘Klown’!

Don, I think you are a little hard on Koko. I am wondering why it bothers you so. You almost always react to his thoughts and feelings with a really strong reply. The beginning of your posts to Ron are always angry and then as the reply continues, you soften up and then end with almost an apology. It is always interesting to see your reaction to him.

I usually find that when there is something about someone I dislike or even strongly hate, I have that exact problem!! Maybe you have an immature alter ego that you blame all your problems and shortcomings on. Do you?

From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 9:51:28 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amen.

On 12/30/05 6:17 PM, “BiscuitBoy714@aol.com” <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:

Ron, I think the reason that I have gotten anywhere with this is because I

did my treatment and then didn’t go anywhere or have to work for about 2

months.

I was just coming off of Hep C treatment, had insurance check and I was lucky

enough to have people who cared about me to not let me go anywhere for about

2 months. That was the key, I had time to recover, bitch to the list and eat

Mamma food for 2 months. I like what the slowone said, one day for each mg per

kg taken. 2 days per if you can pull it off, and lottso therapy while you are

taking the time off. I still talk to a therapist. Like my friend in NYC says,

“at least you aint shootin’ up in a dirty bathroom.” So your on bupe again,

‘could be worse. This is all a process my friend. Everybody calls their own

shots in the end. Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 9:17:34 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:00:12 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Puts hand up “ I didn’t write that! Lol

Kirk :oP

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]  Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2005 5:09 a.m. To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]to Don in reply to methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

In a message dated 12/30/2005 2:25:34 AM Central Standard Time, captkirk@clear.net.nz writes:

Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group > by being honest and mature with us.

From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Test

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:02:29 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

test

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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 7:42:09 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 12/30/05 3:28 PM, “slowone@hush.ai” <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

man, i’m way off.

If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

Sure. Perhaps,

It may also be a clue that the unexpected folks are not developed enough to

give the most positive feedback to someone who is in pain.

Keep hangin’ in Koko.

brenda

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:28:26 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man, i’m way off.

If you find yourself typing a message in block capital letters

again, that might be a clue that people will react unexpectedly.

To answer your question, age could be a factor, not to mention what

you were detoxing from. I suspect that careful attention to diet

and hydration could make a difference. In particular I would

suggest having ample food up to maybe 4 hours before and ample

fluids up to 1 hour before, plus beginning eating and drinking as

soon as convenient after, working up to a full meal as soon as

possible – don’t forget, keep nibbling fruit at least.

I’ll propose a rule of thumb for the ideal minimum recovery time

before going back to a normal routine (like work): at least one day

off for each mg/kg taken, starting from the first full meal eaten.

Even more ideal would be to double this and include therapy twice a

day.

The more times one has taken ibogaine, the faster the recovery

tends to be, so a first experience may not be predictive.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 11:19:58 -0800 koko <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email

to the

forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party. man, i’m

way off. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

—–Original Message—–

From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]

Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON.

pROBLEM,

BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN

MANAGEMENT…….

CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL

CONSTABLE AND

PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS. WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF

BUP 2 WEEKS

DOIN OXYS. MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A

SEASONED VET WE

ALL KNOW. I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.

PROBLEM, WHEN

IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES

BACK. i

COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY

CATCH WHAT I

HAD. IT BEAT MY ASS. JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE

WISDOM OF THIS

LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT

ALLOWING

ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME.

WITHDRAWALS

OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED

AFTERWARDS I

COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER

AGAIN

PHYSICALLY. ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN

AND STILL AM.

MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN

AND OFFER

SOME ONE HELP DURING THE NEW YEAR. AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY

COMMENTS TO

THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron GOTTA

START

SOMEWHERE

SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’ THE PLUG ON ME. ‘DONE

IS BEING

DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS. AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE

BELT

WHICH IS

VERY CONFUSING. NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK OUTPATIENT W/ AN

ADDICT

TO DETOX( I

UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY

ONES W/ KAUNAS

BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST

PROHIBITVE ON A

REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON. ALL THOSE

WERE

MET ON THE

LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN

FRIED PHRASE

FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko

Ron,

It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal

“poor me”

trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether

ibogaine or

whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU)

have to

do.

YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts

with

beginning

to communicate from the position of a individual that takes

personal

responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.

Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind.

Drop them

and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext.

Actually it’s

just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as

hell.

Nick

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:09:25 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study

Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST

In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol

Download today’s top songs at MSN Music from artists like U2, Eminem, & Kelly Clarkson /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Kirk <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Signing off…

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:55:26 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Send a blank email to:

ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

From: Mark Corcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@hotmail.com]  Sent: Saturday, 31 December 2005 12:10 p.m. To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…

I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST  In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol

3 FREE months of MSN Dial-up Internet service. Click for full details and to sign-up now!

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:29:44 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I see your email…

brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net> wrote:

I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to unsubscribe

but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.

Thanks,

brenda

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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: [Ibogaine] Can someone please let me know if this got through?

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:13:23 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t seem to receive my own posts to the list – I’ve tried to unsubscribe

but can’t get a reply from that or ibogaine-help@mindvox.com.

Thanks,

brenda

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From: brenda brewer <shakti@photon.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown – TO RON

Date: December 30, 2005 at 5:22:55 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

Everyone is different. And everybody’s got an opinion and you know what

they say about opinions…

So if someone is criticizing you – you can choose not to listen. Do they

know you? And if they really wanted to help would it be through criticism –

or would it be upliftment?

I bet you’ve gone through enough self-criticism to now add someone else’s

into the mix.

As far as your failing, you’re still alive so you know you can pick

yourself up gently and know you can still get there from here.

Take care,

brenda

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From: “Mark Corcoran” <mcorcoran27@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Signing off…

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:09:44 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m putting the list in another email account. How do I cancel the list on this email address?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Case Study

Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 08:09:00 EST

In a message dated 12/29/05 6:57:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, mcorcoran27@hotmail.com writes:

Has anyone actually done Ibogaine once and stayed clean for two years or more. What a concept! lol

From: “illya braun” <illyabraun@hotmail.com>

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow

Date: December 30, 2005 at 6:00:06 PM EST

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

anyone know of any treatment available in vancouver, canada? i’ve seen a site for ibohouse but am unaible to get into communication with them. how do i find ibo in vancouver? anyone???

illya

From: “pascall roland” <pascal-roland@hotmail.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow

Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:39:28 +0000

and in Iran as well.

US$1100.- 1 Day hospital + 6-8 hours anaesthesia + a lunch ox of pain killers & sedatives.

newspapers are full fo advertisements,

>From: “Logan Palis” <loganexx@hotmail.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow

>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:48:39 +0000

>Just add a few words on Moscow:

>Back in 92 there was a lseveral newspapers articles about Zobins

>metod. In English it was in Guardian (I think). It was very hard to

>get a spot for treatment. Expensive too. Person I have described was

>a son of a prominent doctor in one of eastern european country and

>they pulled a lot of strings to get him in the treatment. They were

>treating a few patients a month and had a state of the art

>University hospital and staff. That seems to have changed now.

>Their metod have apeared the same time as Lance Gubermans metod of

>rapid detox but Gubermans metod was outlawed due to several

>unexplained deaths (as I remember). They still do rapid detox in

>Izrael.

>>From: “Matthew Shriver” <matt@itsupport.net>

>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow

>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:58 -0700

>>I was able to watch the video. It described that same procedure

>>that Logan

>>did to some degree. It mentioned that the process of injecting the

>>opiate

>>blocking “neuropeptide” put the person in a state where they needed

>>a

>>respirator to breathe and mentioned something about very low blood

>>pressure.

>>It made me wonder what the fatality rate is.

>>—–Original Message—–

>>From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]

>>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 6:54 PM

>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow

>>Maybe that’s why their site gives no clue about what the method

>>involves. I wonder if it has ever worked with a medically aware

>>addict who has done it voluntarily?

>>Otherwise, the site is 3 faces, a picture of an apartment building,

>>and a claimed 4.5MB msnbc article that took too long to connect.

>>On Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:25:07 -0800 Logan Palis

>><loganexx@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> >Yes,

>> >Their metod of permanent receptor blocking has been done in early

>> >nineties

>> >on heroin and metadone addicts. Negative side of treatment was

>> >that patients

>> >needed to be clean at least 30 days prior to treatment. Tratment

>> >was in two

>> >steps. 1. was actual treatment where patient was injected with a

>> >substance

>> >that was due to block all opioid receptors for a long time if not

>> >forever.

>> >It was a several hours unplesant trip, so to speak.

>> >2. Second or third day the patient was given very small IV dose

>>of

>> >street

>> >pure heroin and patient would go to a form of chocking-coma for a

>> >several

>> >seconds until dose of naltroxene was administered to stop heroin

>> >effect.

>> >This expirience would scare addicts so bad that their sucess rate

>> >was wery

>> >high.

>> >Due to proces of helth system privatisation and what not, Zobin

>> >stooped his

>> >operation in mid ninetys. This is the first time I hear about him

>> >again.

>> >Kind of glad that Russian mafia didnt kill him.

>> >Somebody I know went trugh his treatment after a long addiction

>> >and havent

>> >touched anything since.

>> >

>> >>From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>

>> >>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>> >>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>> >>Subject: [Ibogaine] clinic for addicts in moscow

>> >>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:40:48 +0100

>> >>

>> >>has anyone ever heard of this?

>> >>

>> >>http://www.zobin.ru/english/index.htm

>> >>

>> >>-ekki

>> >>

>> >>/]=—————————————————————

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>> >>[%]

>> >>

>> >>\]=—————————————————————

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>> >>

>> >

>> >_________________________________________________________________

>> >Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

>> >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

>> >

>>/]=————————————————————–

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>> >

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>>Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no

>>account

>>required

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>_________________________________________________________________

>Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!

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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 2:19:58 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks to all who responded to what i thought was a benign email to the forum but instead was interpreted as more pity party. man, i’m way off. ron

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 11:03 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

—–Original Message—–

From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]

Sent: 29 December 2005 16:32

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER SOON. pROBLEM,

BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M DOING BUP FOR PAIN

MANAGEMENT…….

CAN’T GET NEAR THE CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE AND

PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS. WHEN I DID MY SESSION I WAS OFF

BUP 2 WEEKS

DOIN OXYS. MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A

SEASONED VET WE

ALL KNOW. I WAS TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK.

PROBLEM, WHEN

IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO PUT THE PIECES BACK. i

COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY

CATCH WHAT I

HAD. IT BEAT MY ASS. JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF THIS

LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM, MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING

ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME. NO

WITHDRAWALS

OTHER THAN INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED

AFTERWARDS I

COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN

PHYSICALLY. ANYONE HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN

AND STILL AM.

MANY THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL KLOWN AND OFFER

SOME ONE HELP DURING THE NEW YEAR. AS I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY

COMMENTS TO

THE LIST I REEK W/ THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron GOTTA START

SOMEWHERE

SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’ THE PLUG ON ME. ‘DONE IS BEING

DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS. AROUND MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT

WHICH IS

VERY CONFUSING. NO LOCAL DOC WILL WORK OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT

TO DETOX( I

UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE ONLY

ONES W/ KAUNAS

BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS. FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A

REGULAR BASIS WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON. ALL THOSE WERE

MET ON THE

LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO COIN A SOUTHERN

FRIED PHRASE

FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF HELL. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko

Ron,

It might help if you actually TRIED to let go of this colossal “poor me”

trip you’re on. It’s not just up to the treatment, whether ibogaine or

whatever, to help you, there’s also the part that YOU (yes, YOU) have to do.

YOU HAVE TO CONSCIOUSLY CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE. And that starts with beginning

to communicate from the position of a individual that takes personal

responsibility for himself, not as some tragic victim of life.

Ignore all the “Yes, buts” likely now flowing through your mind. Drop them

and start communicating without all the “poor me” subtext. Actually it’s

just a colossal ego trip and underneath you are as angry as hell.

Nick

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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Date: December 30, 2005 at 1:19:28 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the koko thing is a sad joke that usually brings a smile from those that don’t see me and self pity run rampant. i’m no klown, hate ’em. need to get well. as i stated in reply to Nick…how can koko be responsible for feeling like hell after a session? admittedly lost and the list gets nothing but kudos. rage, yeah, i’d like to be straight and can’t seem to get there. no kidding, sorry for comming across like arse hole to you guys who help many… i’ll nix the commentary for the new year. ron

—– Original Message —– From: “captkirk” <captkirk@clear.net.nz>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:23 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown

Well i guess we get to our healing when we get to our

healing. We been here before with our Infuriating Clown,

love him, and sending hm loads of loves, but he’ll get there

when he does and none of us can judge it or change it when

he does decide that he is actually a decent human being

deserving of love and happiness. That is completely up to

the Klown.

Isn’t it Mr Klown ;)???????????????????????????????

—– Original Message Follows —–

Ron-

Enough with the self-degradation. Enough with the

clown crap. How old are you, anyways? Why are you so

intent on carrying this behemoth baggage past treatment?

Whatever reflex mechanism you are using to justify just

being absolutely absurd as a human being is a battle you

are not going to win. I have SEEN you be smart, you have

moxy and are sharp when not retreating into your state of

“Oh, God, I’m pathetic, signed Koko”. For who can take a

clown seriously?

1, You are NOT a clown, sorry, dude, pretend time is over

2, You got problems, welcome to the club. There are no

Unicorns here, or Fairies, or snakes, or hobgoblins.

Nothing under the bed, see? 3, I don’t care if you vent,

or rage, lash out, go off, whatever. Just be adult about

it and do not assign an alter-ego to be submissive to the

point of discussing something. 4, We care about you, with

all your faults, problems, trials and tribulations.

Remember, we are her for you, please respect us as a group

by being honest and mature with us.

Stop trying to fit the “Healing” peg into the “Koko” hole.

It doesn’t fit.

Don

Ron Davis wrote:

> HOPE TO DO ANOTHER SESSION WITH A SEASONED PROVIDER

> SOON. pROBLEM, BESIDES NOT BEING ABLE TO TYPE…..i’M

> DOING BUP FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT……. CAN’T GET NEAR THE

> CLINIC CUZ OF THE WORK i DO THE LOCAL CONSTABLE AND

> PATIENTS WOULD PULL MY COVERS. WHEN I DID MY SESSION I

> WAS OFF BUP 2 WEEKS DOIN OXYS. MY PROVIDER TOMMY WAS

INCREDIBLE SUBBING FOR A SEASONED VET WE ALL KNOW. I WAS

> TREATED LIKE A PATIENT , NOT LIKE A TRICK. PROBLEM,

> WHEN IT WAS OVER, I HAD 10 DAYS INCLUDING SESSION TO

> PUT THE PIECES BACK. i COULD NOT FUNCTION. GUYS AT

> WORK TOLD ME TO GO HOME LEST THEY CATCH WHAT I HAD. IT

BEAT MY ASS. JUST WONDERING FROM THE COLLECTIVE WISDOM OF

> THIS LIST WHETHER IT WAS THE DRUG I WAS DETOXING FROM,

> MY AGE, NOT ALLOWING ENOUGH TIME OR A COMBINATION OF

> ALL THE ABOVE WHICH SANK ME. NO WITHDRAWALS OTHER THAN

> INSOMNIA AND GI STUFF( WHAT A HOOT), BUT SO DEPLETED

AFTERWARDS I COULD NOT FUNCTION AT WORK LONG ENOUGH TO PUT

> MYSELF TOGETHER AGAIN PHYSICALLY. ANYONE HAVE ANY

> INSIGHT INTO THIS MORASS I WAS IN AND STILL AM. MANY

> THANKS…HERE’S HOPING I CAN BE NICE, NOT A PITIFUL

> KLOWN AND OFFER SOME ONE HELP DURING THE NEW YEAR. AS

> I LOOK OVER SOME OF MY COMMENTS TO THE LIST I REEK W/

THE SHAME THAT FOLLOWS A FOOL.ron GOTTA START SOMEWHERE

> SO I’LL THANK THE LIST FOR NOT PULLIN’ THE PLUG ON ME.

> ‘DONE IS BEING DISHED OUT IN THE 100’S OF MGS. AROUND

> MY PART OF THE BIBLE BELT WHICH IS VERY CONFUSING. NO

> LOCAL DOC WILL WORK OUTPATIENT W/ AN ADDICT TO DETOX(

I UNDERSTAND US LAWS PROHIBIT IT OR DISCOURAGE IT) AND THE

> ONLY ONES W/ KAUNAS BIG ENOUGH TO DO IT RIGHT ARE HRS.

> FROM ME WHICH IS COST PROHIBITVE ON A REGULAR BASIS

> WHICH THEY JUSTIFIABLY INSIST UPON. ALL THOSE WERE MET

> ON THE LIST OR OFF LIST AND AMAZE ME … GOOD FOLKS TO

COIN A SOUTHERN FRIED PHRASE FROM MY LITTLE CORNER OF

> HELL. THANKS AGAIN TO ALL. koko

> —– Original Message —– From: “Kirk”

> <captkirk@clear.net.nz> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 2:46 PM

> Subject: [Ibogaine] methadone

>> The thing with the methadone and Teeth problems is that

it dries up the >> saliva in the mouth, which has anti

toof rotting stuff in it (god im so >> medical, I stun

myself) and that’s what causes the teeth problems. >>

Chewing >> gum is good for people on the done to help

protect the >> teeth….although im

>> iffy about the sugar free shit they stick in everything

these days.. >>

>> I go to the pharmacy 5 days a week, get weekend

takeaways. Once a >> week!!

>> Ooooo luxury!! Lol. I was determined this time to not

be on it for >> long..

>> and as it turns out it’s just gone a year since I went

back on. My >> counsellor has just been to Turkey to hand

out Tents and sleeping >> bags to

>> people in more remote areas who were without aid to

date. Just to >> give an

>> idea the type of human being she is. She also wants to

come see me >> during

>> the ibo journey. She’s one in a million. Into eastern

style stuff, >> meditation , Buddhism etc. new doctor at

clinic is into alternative >> therapies.. (thnk I’ve said

all this shit before?? Lol old age is a >> bitch!!)

>> Anyway, it’s interesting the differences in the

methadone clinics >> around the

>> world.

>> Preston, sweating is usually a sign of too high a

dose…..it >> shouldn’t be a

>> normal part of done maintenance, although I don’t know

what else they >> put in

>> yours. Ours is pingable.

>> Ok late for work already

>> Eek

>> Kirk xxx

>> See ya’s next year if not before ‘o)

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From: “koko” <rwd3@cox.net>

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] methadone TO BUP from dumb arse klown( Nick . thanks)

Date: December 30, 2005 at 1:10:56 PM EST

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

is it poor me or is that a carry over from when I’m consciously on self pity trip that turns everyone off? can’t quite figure out how feeling like shite ties into that. open to suggestions. thanks , ron