Ibogaine List Archives – 2003-04

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] New Scientist ibogaine article
Date: April 30, 2003 at 10:04:41 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Seems to me in my somewhat personal view that most treatment types must be
suspicious about ibogaine because it appears to remove the worst of
withdrawal pain from the withdrawal process, which many treatment types seem
to think is necessary when kicking, the pain part I mean, as it proves there
are consequences to use and that no one can expect to get off their drugs
without paying that pain price.
There’s also that “taking a trippy drug to kick addictive drug(s)”
thing, but my first point is the main one I think, whether the treatment
types admit it out loud or not. (This of course doesn’t get into the whole
“profit by running treatment centers” thing either, which is a driving
forces to the whole war in and of itself, and which ibogaine would go a long
way towards cutting drastically.) We must all pay for our sins is the
prevailing view amongst most treatment types I suspect, and to promote a
“drug” that bypasses that pain bit, well, that’s sacrilege, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jon Freedlander
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] New Scientist ibogaine article

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/29/03 3:49:01 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

But Frank Vocci, from the US National Institute on
Drug Abuse in Maryland, told New Scientist that while
there were “striking stories” of drug addicts who have
been helped by ibogaine, there were other anecdotes
describing people who did not quit their habit and
even died while taking the compound.

Frank could say the same thing about methadone, LAAM and burprenorphine.
Now, why didn’t he do that?

Because he works at NIDA?

Alan Leshner spoke at my college once while he was Grand Poobah of NIDA.
He’s a frighteningly ignorant man.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] families, marches, ibogaine, and perseverance
Date: April 30, 2003 at 9:39:45 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Despite my comment yesterday, or maybe it was the day before, about
still trying but not yet succeeding to convince my family that the WOSDU is
utterly stupid and failing and a waste of time, money and lives, it seems
I’ve come a long way with at least my mom, who “caught” me rolling up a
teeny piece of war hash with tobacco on the back patio chez ‘rents at
Christmas time. Telling me she was “not shocked, surprised, upset” when she
realized what I was doing, she went on to say in a “Happy Easter” note to me
today that-

I don’t want to get in trouble, I pretty much have come to share your views
on the “dangers” of pot, but I am just too old to fight or demonstrate or
any of that.<

I never, ever seriously thought I’d hear or read such a view from one of my
‘rents, (though obviously I dreamed about it happening) but it seems that
I’ve been able to convince at least one of them that things are not exactly
what the prohibitionists make them out to be. I think my Dad is at about the
same level, though he’s not come right out like this and said it.
So, no matter how bleak things look, giving up never gets me anywhere,
but perseverance sometimes does.
Happy Easter and Spring to you all.

For those in the NYC area, the annual Cures-Not-Wars marijuana march is this
Saturday, and Sunday is a “big” ibogaine conference. (see below) Keep it in
mind. There will be other cities around the world, nearly 200 as near as I
can tell, that will also be holding associated marches, but NYC will be
holding the only Ibogaine conference. So perhaps I’ll meet one or more of
you this weekend, right?
;-))))

Peace,
Preston
——

IBOGAINE FORUM SUNDAY, MONDAY..

The Walker Stage @ 75 Walker St. (at Broadway)

Sunday, May 4, 2003, Noon to 8 pm

12:00 noon – 12:45 pm
Registration $20

12:45 pm – 1:00 pm
Introductory Remarks
Rommel Washington, BENU

1:00 pm – 2:30 pm
Traditional Healing and Religious Practice
Suzanne Bellamy, ex-BPP
Laurent Sazy, Photoethnographer
Malendi, Bwiti Nganga
Awolowo Johnson, Nganga/sociologist
Discussion

2:30 pm – 3:30 pm
Break

3:30 pm – 5:30 pm
Treatment Providers Speak
Howard Lotsof
Linette Carriere, IbogaTherapyHouse
Patrick Kroupa, Ibogaine List
Adam Nodelman, INTASH
Brian Mariano, Czech Republic
Lynn Maner
Discussion

5:45 pm to 8 pm
Ibogaine and the Search for Lost Sacraments
Prof. Carl Ruck, PhD, author, “The Apples of Apollo”
Daniel Pinchbeck, author,
“Breaking Open the Head”
Charles Kater, Friends of Bishop Pike
Frank Morales, Episcopalian Priest
OTHERS, TBA
Discussion

Monday, May 5, 2003,
10 am to 6 pm

10:00 am – 10:30 am
Registration $20

10:30 am – 10:45 am
Introductory Remarks
H.S. Lotsof

10:45 am – 1:45 pm
Scientific Panel
Kenneth R. Alper, MD
Deborah C. Mash PhD
Emmanuel Onaivi, PhD
Carl M. Anderson, PhD
Jonathan Freedlander, BA
Discussion

1:45 pm – 3:00 PM
Lunch

3:00 pm –  5:15 pm
Politics and Availability
Dana Beal, co-author,
“The Ibogaine Story”
Vic Hernandez, Dr PH
Howard Lotsof
Bob Sisko Addiction Research Institute
Ric Doblin, MAPS
Discussion

5:15 pm – 6:00 pm
Final Wrap-up Panel
Rommel Washington, BENU
& Principal Panelists

The Monday session will be attended by representatives of various
city and state agencies.

Dana/cnw

From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] New Scientist ibogaine article
Status:

I tried to find it, found this instead.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030425/103/dyjiw.html

Friday April 25, 12:49 PM

African shrub may help drug withdrawal
US scientists are investigating derivatives of a
compound from an African shrub that is said to cure
drug addicts of their habit, reports New Scientist
magazine.

Ibogaine is a compound that comes from the root of the
plant Tabernanthe iboga, found in Gabon, West Africa.
Followers of the Bwiti religion use it in ceremonies
for its vision-giving properties. But in the early
1960s, ibogaine became associated with reducing drug
cravings among heroin addicts attempting to withdraw.

Although banned in the US as a schedule 1 drug – it is
classed alongside heroin – some researchers say that
ibogaine is “worth investigating” as an alternative to
methadone to help heroin addicts avoid the effects of
withdrawal.

snip-

But Frank Vocci, from the US National Institute on
Drug Abuse in Maryland, told New Scientist that while
there were “striking stories” of drug addicts who have
been helped by ibogaine, there were other anecdotes
describing people who did not quit their habit and
even died while taking the compound.

© HMG Worldwide Ltd 2003
—–
and as Howard Lotsoff wrote in reply to Vocci’s point-

Frank could say the same thing about methadone, LAAM and burprenorphine.
Now, why didn’t he do that?<

(Well said Howard and a great point.)
I’ll send the March info in another email.
Peace again,
Preston

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] New Scientist ibogaine article
Date: April 29, 2003 at 9:33:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 29 Apr 2003 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/29/03 3:49:01 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

But Frank Vocci, from the US National Institute on
Drug Abuse in Maryland, told New Scientist that while
there were “striking stories” of drug addicts who have
been helped by ibogaine, there were other anecdotes
describing people who did not quit their habit and
even died while taking the compound.

Frank could say the same thing about methadone, LAAM and burprenorphine.
Now, why didn’t he do that?

Because he works at NIDA?

Alan Leshner spoke at my college once while he was Grand Poobah of NIDA.
He’s a frighteningly ignorant man.

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@pacbell.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: FP announces consciousness conference, July 11-13
Date: April 29, 2003 at 9:12:26 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “stephen trichter” <stephentrichter@yahoo.com>

Helping investors expand and awaken

On July 11-13, False Profit will hold its first
conference: Altered States and the Spiritual
Awakening. The conference includes lecture and
workshops, opening and closing ceremonies, fully
catered meals, morning yoga, and more. General
registration for the conferencebegins today at
http://www.assacon.com.

The lectures and workshops will be led by a number of
luminaries in the fields of transpersonal psychology,
parapsychology, and entheogens. (A list of all
presenters is included later in this email.) False
Profit has organized the event such that it will be
welcoming and financially accessible to all people
with an interest in consciousness and spirituality ­
people who may not yet have been able to connect with
a community of guides and fellow seekers.

“Mind over matter over money” say ASSA presenters

At its inception, False Profit aimed to increase
dividends paid to its investors by disbursing that
dividend directly in the form of human experience.
With ASSA, that project is taking a quantum leap
forward.

Many months ago, FP employees saw that an entire
generation of young conscious-curious people were,
sadly, largely disconnected from the experiences and
epiphanies of previous generations. Most conferences
on consciousness expansion aimed at a more experienced
generation and didn’t reach out to their spiritual
successors. Slightly frustrated, mostly excited, The
Corporation created ASSA, a widely accessible and
affordable conference.

The Corporation quickly committed a high level of
support for this project that so clearly provided true
profit: It goes around the monetary placeholder to
directly provide human benefits and contribute to the
formation of a multigenerational community. A
phenomenal group of workshop and lecture leaders is
contributing to the conference for absolutely no
monetary payment because they support its mission.
Without them sharing of themselves, the conference
would have been an utter impossibility. The
Corporation
thanks them for their kindness.

Guess who’s coming to ASSA

In addition to the many consciousness explorers and
spiritual guides coming to ASSA, False Profit expects
to have another group of special, friendly visitors at
the conference: representatives of various interested
law-enforcement agencies. The Corporation expects
that these federal organizations, such as the Drug
Enforcement Agency, might have some curiosity about
the proceedings, and may send representatives to
explore the conference and see what it’s all
about.

Investors may want to be aware that the conference
will probably be extremely secure. Who knows? Maybe
the feds will get turned on to some of the spiritual
exploration going on at ASSA. They may need a
little more introduction to the ideas behind
consciousness expansion, so feel free to give them
sage words of advice. If nothing else, you can join us
in playing “spot the fed”.

The presenters:

Morgan Brent, Ph.D.
Etzel Cardeña, Ph.D.
Dr. Concrescence
Frank Echenhofer, Ph.D.
Earth Erowid
Fire Erowid
Ruth Inge-Heinze, Ph.D.
Robert Jesse
Jon Klimo, Ph.D.
Stanley Krippner, Ph.D.
Luis Eduardo Luna, Ph.D.
Maria Mangini, Ph.D. FNP, CNM
Justine E. Owens, Ph.D.
Daniel Pinchbeck
Beverly Rubik, Ph.D.
Ann Shulgin
Stuart Sovatsky, Ph.D.
Charles T. Tart, Ph.D.
Robert L. Van de Castle, Ph.D.

\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
***Altered States and the Spiritual Awakening is a
substance-free event. We ask for your courtesy and
respect toward the presenters and staff in committing
to this policy and the intention of the gathering.
Staff will ask attendees using substances to leave the
conference without refund.***
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

ABOUT FALSE PROFIT
False Profit (FPFT) is passionate about what a Limited
Liability Corporation can be. The Corporation seeks to
empower human beings to create and experience the most
engaging moments in life, yielding Better Living
Through Better Corporations. Headquartered in San
Francisco’s  lovely SOMA district, False Profit is
located at 43 Norfolk Street  (between 11th and 12th
streets), between Folsom and Harrison streets. More
Information about False Profit is available on the
World Wide Web at http://www.false-profit.com

=====
———————————————————–
stephen trichter, chief operations officer
false profit, llc
43 norfolk st.
san francisco, ca 94103
http://www.false-profit.com
———————————————————–

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] New Scientist ibogaine article
Date: April 29, 2003 at 9:04:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/29/03 3:49:01 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

But Frank Vocci, from the US National Institute on
Drug Abuse in Maryland, told New Scientist that while
there were “striking stories” of drug addicts who have
been helped by ibogaine, there were other anecdotes
describing people who did not quit their habit and
even died while taking the compound.

Frank could say the same thing about methadone, LAAM and burprenorphine.
Now, why didn’t he do that?

Howard

From: Otter60@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely]
Date: April 29, 2003 at 4:53:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Huge Rally & Lobby to Stop Cuts in MA tomorrow go or call

It is essential that all MA residents call their legislators to stop ALL of
the health, human services and non-profit cuts TOMORROW. There will also be a
rally from 10:00am -6:00 pm at the State House in Boston, comew whenever you
can. THe legislators are mostly afraid to vote for anything smacking of a tax
increase. But organizations in MA such as United for Justice with Peace have
statistics which show that closing corporation loopholes and reversing recent
cuts in the income tax in a way that is fairer for lower income voters would
cover $2billion of the $3 billion shortfall. THe Boston Globe reported tthat
42 separate tax cuts in the last 12 years have reduced the states wallets by
millions. this is not Taxachusetts, that is a myth.
THe loss of Basic Meicaid has forced the closure ofhalf of the states
077detox beds And MMT patients are already being terminated, with more to
come unless the voters speak OUT.
As we all know, most of these cuts (daycare, senior prescriptions, schools,
aid to cities and towns youth jobs, etc.,will end up costing MORE money in
the long run, just as the treatment program cuts do.
It is crucial that you Call your State reps and say stop the cuts, riase
taxes fairly, close the loopholes today or tomorrow, as the vote will
probably be Friday. Here in Dorchester/Mattapna, they are Wallace,
617-269=7244, Marty WAlsh, 722-2188, Lower Mills/Mattapan, 722-2500, or Rep.
St. Fleur, 722-2070. For more info email me or go to www.faireconomy.org.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] New Scientist ibogaine article
Date: April 29, 2003 at 3:47:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I tried to find it, found this instead.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030425/103/dyjiw.html

Friday April 25, 12:49 PM

African shrub may help drug withdrawal
US scientists are investigating derivatives of a
compound from an African shrub that is said to cure
drug addicts of their habit, reports New Scientist
magazine.

Ibogaine is a compound that comes from the root of the
plant Tabernanthe iboga, found in Gabon, West Africa.
Followers of the Bwiti religion use it in ceremonies
for its vision-giving properties. But in the early
1960s, ibogaine became associated with reducing drug
cravings among heroin addicts attempting to withdraw.

Although banned in the US as a schedule 1 drug – it is
classed alongside heroin – some researchers say that
ibogaine is “worth investigating” as an alternative to
methadone to help heroin addicts avoid the effects of
withdrawal.

Dr Stanley Glick, a neuropharmacologist at New York’s
Albany Medical Center, studied the way ibogaine binds
to a range of receptors in the brain’s nerve endings.
He has now teamed up with Dr Martin Kuehne from the
University of Vermont to look at two of ibogaine’s
molecular cousins that have fewer side effects.

In research into 18-methoxycoronaridine (18-MC) – a
synthetic relative of ibogaine – they discovered that
rats administered with the compound reduced the amount
of drugs they self-administered and had less severe
withdrawal symptoms.

Dr Deborah Mash, a neuropharmacologist at the
University of Miami Medical Center, has also carried
out ibogaine trials in the past, and says that some
patients who took the treatment have remained drug
free for as long as six years.

Now Dr Mash has found that noribogaine – a natural
metabolite of ibogaine – helps addicted rodents stop
themselves from self-administering drugs. She believes
noribogaine locks onto the mu-opoid receptor – the
main binding site for morphine – and stifles the
stimulus that the drug provides.

But Frank Vocci, from the US National Institute on
Drug Abuse in Maryland, told New Scientist that while
there were “striking stories” of drug addicts who have
been helped by ibogaine, there were other anecdotes
describing people who did not quit their habit and
even died while taking the compound.

Š HMG Worldwide Ltd 2003

— HSL123@aol.com wrote:

New Scientist, 26 April 2003

QUICK FIX
Just a single dose of an African folk remedy can
free drug addicts from their
cravings. So why aren’t doctors welcoming it with
open arms? Bob Holmes finds
out

This article has just come out but, is not available
from the online edition
of the magazine.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
USA
http://www.doraweiner.org
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] New Scienist ibogaine article
Date: April 29, 2003 at 1:54:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

New Scientist, 26 April 2003

QUICK FIX
Just a single dose of an African folk remedy can free drug addicts from their
cravings. So why aren’t doctors welcoming it with open arms? Bob Holmes finds
out

This article has just come out but, is not available from the online edition
of the magazine.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doing what after ibogaine?
Date: April 29, 2003 at 1:37:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dean,

Checkout SMART Recovery at http://www.smartrecovery.org

They may or may not have groups in your area.  Even without groups you may find that the philosphies that they adhere to be refreshing in face of the twelve step domination.

I really like SMART recovery.  When I did the 12-step thing people were always telling me not to think for myself and to call my sponser (“I was just thinking…” “Uh oh, you were thinking, you better call your sponser.  You know what happens when you start thinking…”)  At SMART I don’t get that. Instead we are told to think for ourselves and to create our own program.  We know ourselves better than anyone else, therefore with determination and the proper mental skills at our disposal we can defeat our bad habits our own unique and individual way.

Good luck,
Randy

From: “Dean Farrel” <deanfarrel62@lycos.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] doing what after ibogaine?
Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 08:00:09 -1100

Hi all. I think I’m part of the silent majority. I haven’t been here long but I feel a lot like amon said and related to his comments. Part of that I know is my own feelings about being addicted but part of that too is I relate to the being fucked up part that people here are. The difference is whether you all know it or not, most of you are very intimidating. I think the dumbest people who post here are some of the smartest people I’ve ever seen and the smartest ones I don’t understand at all.

You all are fucked up and very very smart. It is a little intimidating and makes me think whether or not I should ever say anything.

I read this and loved it

http://www.herointimes.com/mar03/intervent.html

Do the comments before mean that part 2 is not ever coming out then?

What I’m getting from all of you here is that after ibogaine you don’t have one answer for what to do but I don’t need to go back to the 12 step and treatment route. I live in northern California, any suggestions for contacts here or people who have done ibogaine and are not doing the steps?

Thanks
Dean

____________________________________________________________
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine in New Zealand
Date: April 29, 2003 at 12:42:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know of any centres or treatment clinics.  I don’t even know the legal status in NZ.  Don’t think a lot of people, including medical and drug treatment people even know about it.  Allison

I’ve told all the legalization people about it–nandor and so-on. It was like he never really considered what I was saying. The one guy that’s kind of working on it is Blair.

From: Blair Anderson <blair@mildgreens.com>
Reply-To: blair@mildgreens.com
Organization: Techno Junk and Grey Matter  & Mild Green Initiative mildgreens.com
X-Accept-Language: en
To: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: NORML NZ release: J Day is Sat 3 May 2003
Status:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0304/S00153.htm

Blair Anderson
50 Wainoni Road, WAINONI
Christchurch, NZ 8006
phone ++64 3 389-4065   025 2657219

Mild Green Initiatives, for your  liberty, pleasure, health and safety.

http://mildgreens.com
_______________________________________________

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doing what after ibogaine?
Date: April 28, 2003 at 9:39:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Paul, I wanted to say that I really liked your
words. You’re very expressive and brought to mind a
lot of the reasons that I read this list 🙂 I don’t
write here as often as I used to because life is very
hectic for me right now. I’ve been here I think nearly
since this list started and watched all of what you
mentioned, people come, go, stop posting, come back.

I’m not as great at expressing my thoughts as some of
you and not nearly as smart either but what I get here
that I haven’t found anywhere else is a lot of hope.
Every time I feel very down or I think I can’t handle
another day without getting high and I’m so sick of
groups (yes I go sometimes don’t lynch me 😉 or going
to therapy (I do that too), I read some of what’s here
and some of the time it’s completely over my head or
all over the place or people acting like they are all
5 years old.

I very much am drawn to all of this, I don’t even
begin to understand the whole history of everything,
but I look at mindvox and I love it. It’s beautiful,
in parts its brilliant, in other parts its like angry
5 year olds (I love the mission statement 😉

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=About

It’s like something that obviously took a huge amount
of effort to make, then it has always been in the
process of opening again for 2 years I think? But none
of the people who run it can ever be bothered to get
around to that part, because they’re too dysfunctional
or don’t care about ever making money, so all of it
keeps growing into this strange group of very smart
people.

I always thought the only thing missing was a really
big KEEP OUT Secret Clubhouse! We have drugs, guns and
technology! sign 😉 Please don’t kill me patrick 🙂
Mindvox is the Lost Boys 😉

Speaking of you, you go from being a total dickhead to
being one of the most amazing and nice people I’ve
ever seen. It’s I don’t know how to say it, but
knowing there is this cute, smart guy 😉 who’s crazy
and who everyone says won’t last a week, keeps going
and is still going years later. It gives me a lot of
hope.

This whole list also humanises everyone, that there
are people behind all the stories. Knowing that Dr.
Mash the “evil witch” will send her phone number
through email and then talk for half an hour “Patrick
is a genius! That’s my son! And he hasn’t done heroin
in 3 years or even been arrested in a while!”  I’m
sorry 😉 but it’s so funny and so sweet at the same
time.

Watching Dana with PKD 😉 and Howard posting crazy
movie links, Marc and iboga therapy house, Brett,
Curtis who really always remind me of little Jesus,
even though yes I know your name is from a
motherlovebone song 😉 Preston 🙂 Hang in there
Preston! Randy 🙂 Marko 🙂 Sara 🙂 Allison 🙂
Everyone.

And you too vector 😉 You actually listened last year
when some of us who are female mentioned that you were
showing how 18 years old you are 😉 You stopped. You
also I think are the one who coined the phrase that
still makes me laugh whenever I think of it because
it’s so very true. “Maybe I won’t smoke crack today,
I’ll just look at what’s happening on Mindvox instead.
Same effect” 😉

If you’re part of some big majority who is only
reading because you’re interested then that’s good.
But if you’re being quiet because you’re intimidated
then I don’t think there’s any need to do that. People
here are real, sometimes too real, but everyone here
has at one time or another said something that was
very important to me and I think of all of your as my
friends. Whatever anyone says here, afterwards
everyone calms down and goes back to being friends. Or
that’s what I’ve always seen here, I see people go off
for a few messages and then calm down and everything
is back to being whatever is normal here. Whatever
that means 😉

Thanks for being here 🙂

Carla B

— paul jackamo <pauljackamo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dean wrote :

Hi all. I think I’m part of the silent majority. I
haven’t been here long
but I feel a lot like amon said and related to his
comments. Part of that I
know is my own feelings about being addicted but
part of that too is I
relate to the being fucked up part that people here
are. The difference is
whether you all know it or not, most of you are
very intimidating. I think
the dumbest people who post here are some of the
smartest people I’ve ever
seen and the smartest ones I don’t understand at
all.

You all are fucked up and very very smart. It is a
little intimidating and
makes me think whether or not I should ever say
anything.
……..

What I’m getting from all of you here is that after
ibogaine you don’t have
one answer for what to do but I don’t need to go
back to the 12 step and
treatment route. I live in northern California, any
suggestions for
contacts here or people who have done ibogaine and
are not doing the steps?

Thanks
Dean

Hi Dean > All sorts of people post on here :
treatment providers/ibogaine
suppliers/sitters/junkies/those that have taken ibo
for chemical
dependence/psycho-spiritual reasons/those that are
interested in entheogens
full stop/researchers and a whole host of others
that dont fit easily into
any of these categories.  (in reality most people
overlap and transcend such
easy categorisations anyway)

My guess is that ibogaine has a
self-selecting/self-organising dynamic all
of its own. With specific reference to those that
took ibogaine for chemical
dependency : – they tried every form of fucking
treatment/rehabilitation/ideology under the sun and
nothing worked, for them
at least.
If they didnt have the answers before then they
certainly wont have “one”
answer on what to do afterwards.
This self-selection/self-organising quality seems to
work across different
levels of magnification : the people who post on
here represent a small
selection of those who have taken ibogaine for
chemical dependency.

Others :

dont have access to a computer
simply get on with their lives
used to post and now do not
choose not to post
are back on drugs
never returned.
etc.

I post on here not because i am simply “smart and
fucked up” – but because i
like the people,period. I havent been on here long,
but it helps to keep me
clean (ie:it works for me), which is what i want in
present time.

Of the two people i know apart from myself who took
ibogaine for junk habits
here in england, one is back on it and the other i
havent heard from
recently.
In reel-time, i cant even begin to discuss some of
the shit that is going on
in my head with friends and family. Ive cut myself
off from all former using
buddies and the thought of sitting around discussing
my “disease” with the
step drones (yeah…i went outta my body and met
this really weird african
god….) doesnt really appeal.
Neither does discussing cognitive/psychological
strategies of relapse
prevention or childhood programming with the
treatment pimps. (copyrite PK).

What does appeal is being here,right here,right now.

welcome aboard the good ship mindvox.

paul.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 28, 2003 at 8:54:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve,

Do you feel a person could get the same
“psycho/spiritual/ego burning
benefits”        from   taking several smaller doses
( no visions/ movies),
as he could taking the full on three days with a
sitter dose?

No. Small doses, even accumulated and closer together
are not the same as 1 large(r) dose. Someone might
however get just as much (or close) out of doing a
smaller large dose (initiatory dose – ie 10-12mg/kg)
as a larger anti-addictive  dose – though not for an
addict.  Some of it comes down to you and what you
need, if you need a large dose, then you need a large
dose, there are many variables. ie If you were super
sensitive, it may be that even several hundred mg’s
will do it for you, or do enough. I have noticed that
people who have been exposed to ibo previously (ie
addicts) more often do smaller (ie several hundred
mg’s) with much success – a little head booster.
Having previously taken ibogaine will generally make
someone more sensitive to the experience.  A little
more to your answer, believe me I TRIED!!!!!! If there
was a way to get the same out of repeated small doses,
I would be doing it… I do however like small doses
but they don’t accumulate into (the same as) a large
dose though, not quite… Warning, repeated close
together smaller doses (ie several hundred mg size)
can have negative effects that take a long time to
clear. Ie the sexual side effects (aphrodesiac) are
really great but repeated small doses (ie several
hundred mg)of that size can over-stimulate – read,
have a numbing effect. It can do that to the big head
too… just a bit, annoying, like you took too much of
some strange SSRI, just that it can take 6 months to
clear.  I also tried smaller initiatory doses with
little success (ie 8mg/kg), that didn’t quite get me
“THERE” – in that case I felt cheated, then I had to
wait 6 months or so before dosing again – too close
toghether doesn’t feel good (of course it is a bit
different for say a methadone addict needing repeated
doses, the ibo has something to chew on besides you).

You also CAN’T do a big dose and then get that
wonderful glow and keep it by continued smaller doses,
the ibo will let you know that isn’t something you
should do (as in it don’t work that way). To some
extent it works, in other ways, not quite.

Brett

thanks,  Steve

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doing what after ibogaine?
Date: April 28, 2003 at 8:35:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dean wrote :

Hi all. I think I’m part of the silent majority. I haven’t been here long but I feel a lot like amon said and related to his comments. Part of that I know is my own feelings about being addicted but part of that too is I relate to the being fucked up part that people here are. The difference is whether you all know it or not, most of you are very intimidating. I think the dumbest people who post here are some of the smartest people I’ve ever seen and the smartest ones I don’t understand at all.

You all are fucked up and very very smart. It is a little intimidating and makes me think whether or not I should ever say anything.
……..

What I’m getting from all of you here is that after ibogaine you don’t have one answer for what to do but I don’t need to go back to the 12 step and treatment route. I live in northern California, any suggestions for contacts here or people who have done ibogaine and are not doing the steps?

Thanks
Dean

Hi Dean > All sorts of people post on here : treatment providers/ibogaine suppliers/sitters/junkies/those that have taken ibo for chemical dependence/psycho-spiritual reasons/those that are interested in entheogens full stop/researchers and a whole host of others that dont fit easily into any of these categories.  (in reality most people overlap and transcend such easy categorisations anyway)

My guess is that ibogaine has a self-selecting/self-organising dynamic all of its own. With specific reference to those that took ibogaine for chemical dependency : – they tried every form of fucking treatment/rehabilitation/ideology under the sun and nothing worked, for them at least.
If they didnt have the answers before then they certainly wont have “one” answer on what to do afterwards.
This self-selection/self-organising quality seems to work across different levels of magnification : the people who post on here represent a small selection of those who have taken ibogaine for chemical dependency.

Others :

dont have access to a computer
simply get on with their lives
used to post and now do not
choose not to post
are back on drugs
never returned.
etc.

I post on here not because i am simply “smart and fucked up” – but because i like the people,period. I havent been on here long, but it helps to keep me clean (ie:it works for me), which is what i want in  present time.

Of the two people i know apart from myself who took ibogaine for junk habits here in england, one is back on it and the other i havent heard from recently.
In reel-time, i cant even begin to discuss some of the shit that is going on in my head with friends and family. Ive cut myself off from all former using buddies and the thought of sitting around discussing my “disease” with the step drones (yeah…i went outta my body and met this really weird african god….) doesnt really appeal.
Neither does discussing cognitive/psychological strategies of relapse prevention or childhood programming with the treatment pimps. (copyrite PK).

What does appeal is being here,right here,right now.

welcome aboard the good ship mindvox.

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Worried what your kids see online? Protect them better with MSN 8 http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=186&DI=1059

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine in New Zealand
Date: April 28, 2003 at 7:04:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WELL HERE IN CANADA IT WORKS ALITTLE DIFFRENT ,YES WE HAVE METH CLINICS BUT THE BEST PART IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO AND PICK IT UP AT THE CLINIC, YOU CAN GO TO MOST ANY PHARMACY CLOSE TO YOU ,THEY HAVE YOUR FILE AND THEY DISPENSE IT TO YOU ,SO YOU NEVER WAIT, MORE THAN 5 MINUTESOR WHOM EVER IS BREGGING IN A SCRIPT, AND AS FOR PRICE I PAY 35$ CANADAIAN A WEEK WHICH IS 25$ US GIVE OR TAKE…NOW ABOUT PRIVELEDGES WHEN I FIRST STARTED ON METHADONE I HAD TO GO 7 DAYS A WEEK, BUT WITH TIME I PROVED MYSELF BUY DOING URINE ANALYSES, AND TODAY I COME IN ONLY TWICE A WEEK THE REST I TAKE HOME, ANYWAYS WHATS GOOD ABOUT CANADA IT IS GOVERMENT CONTROLLED SO PRICES ARE REGULATED , AND CLINICS DO NOT HAVE A HAND IN DISPENSING THE METHADONE, SO TO CONCLUDE IT IS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY , BUT THE PATIENT..

KOBI

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine in New Zealand
Date: April 28, 2003 at 5:53:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know of any centres or treatment clinics.  I don’t even know the legal status in NZ.  Don’t think a lot of people, including medical and drug treatment people even know about it.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: Hattie
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine in New Zealand

on 4/30/03 12:20 PM, Allison Senepart at aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz wrote:

Message for Allison really and others from NZ on the list. I was wondering what the legal status for ibogaine is over there and if there are currently any treatment centers in NZ?
I may be a bit behind and out of date as you may have already had this discussion but I go through periods of following this list and periods of abstinence!

Thanks

Hattie

In New Zealand if you have been on the methadone programme for a couple of years which they call long term and have no problems, you can opt to get your script from your local GP providing he is OK with that and then that frees up the programe waiting list and you just see your GP every couple of months, which costs a doctors visit fee but is lots easier and you can get takeaways every 2nd day or for a max of 4 or 5 over holiday periods.  Our clinics here revolve round councilling.  If you are on the National Health and methadone clinic you are obliged to see a councillor every month or so and be prepared to supply urine samples until proven trustworthy if that makes any sense and after that they let your own doctor keep an eye on you.  Tis easier but still the liquid handcuff situation.    Allison
PS  I have also been getting lots of spam about scripts on the net, valium, viagra and all sorts.  Is it cos we are on a drug sort of list, do they think we will buy anything???
Personally I wish they would bugger off and stop clogging up my mail box and taking my time up deleting their rubbish.
—– Original Message —–
From: Robin Downard <mailto:RobinLynnDownard@msn.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

Hi,
I live in Maryland.  I go in once a week at my clinic.  I pay $80 per week…..yes I said $80.00, eighty dollars, per week.  When I started , it was $70 per week.  It went up this year.  They also just recently started testing for marijuana.  They just stopped doing observed UAs.  The wait is not bad if you go at the the right time.  They have buses that bring Medical Assistance patients from Baltimore once or twice a day.  The clinic is open until 12noon, and they open at 5:30am.  I can only complain about the fee as I realize some people go to clinics from HELL.  Well, I hope this helped.

Take care,
Robin

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Skupien
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:10 PM
To: Ibogaine mailing list
Subject: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

I am writing in response to Tara, who was asking about other people who
are on methadone and their ability to take home your meth. I am in
Chicago, IL and I have been on meth for quite a while now. My clinic
doesn’t care about THC being found in your system. I only go in to get
medicated every 2 weeks. Soon I should be able to go in only once a
month! I always have THC in my system, as I smoke weed pretty much
every day. On top of that, I get to take home “dry” medication, which
they give to me in tablet form. Most other people who take their meth
home have water or juice put into it before they can carry it home. I
guess I found a really good clinic! I never have to wait in line more
than a couple minutes, and I’m always out the door in less than 5
minutes. The only bad part is that it costs $60.00 a week! I am curious
as to what other people pay for their meth, here in the US. Please
write to the list and let us know. My point for writing this is to say
that not all clinics are so lame, you just need to look around a bit,
and maybe you can find a better option for treatment. Before I went to
my current clinic, I opted for a slightly cheaper clinic, and it was a
royal pain, just like the one Tara goes to –  I had to go in 6 days a
week, and much of the time I had to wait more than 20 minutes
(sometimes up to an hour) just to get medicated. So, maybe you need to
look around at other meth clinics. Soon I hope to be going to the Iboga
therapy house and hopefully I will be able to leave the entire
methadone experience behind me, and hopefully you will too.

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

From: sw95472@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 27, 2003 at 11:55:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett,

Do you feel a person could get the same  “psycho/spiritual/ego burning benefits”        from   taking several smaller doses ( no visions/ movies), as he could taking the full on three days with a sitter dose?

thanks,  Steve

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely]
Date: April 27, 2003 at 3:12:36 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <vector620022002@yahoo.com>, <digital@phantom.com>

Hi all, and Oh,
Tami, Just to let you know,
When it come to discussions raised by Patrick, well, he gets to do what
he wants- he helped me (well, “helped is a relative term, as he took an idea
and ran with it for me and Andria- Andria no longer here on the list with us
unfortunately) and set this whole DrugWar list thing up for us.;-)))
Sometimes he shares things that go right over my head, but that’s ok, I
don’t mind, and often it’s weird and funny and even vaguely technical stuff,
often going over (or through) my head, so….

for a recap of who the techyfriend is who posts the techy stuff-

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1.05/cybernaut.html

Memoirs of a Cybernaut
By Patrick Kroupa
A story about a pair of outlaw hackers who turned legit. In the 1980s, most
online explorers were so caught up in the romance and novelty of cyberspace
that they showed little interest in analyzing their motives or the nature of
the medium they were helping to create.
Patrick Kroupa was an exception. Driven by a sense of wonder and a helping
of hubris, he wrote many commentaries on the electronic continuum. The text
below is a greatly abridged version of a long piece chronicling the decline
of idealism online – which ultimately led Kroupa to start MindVox with his
partner Bruce Fancher, in an effort to recapture some of the old spirit. –
Charles Platt
By Patrick Kroupa
Led by an oddball contingent of misfits, dropouts, acid-heads, phreaks,
hackers, hippies, scientists, and students, guys who could say “doOd, got
any new wares?” with a straight face and really mean it, the 1980s saw the
rise of the first empires and kingdoms of cyberspace.
When I first became an active participant in this electronic nervous system,
I was a little over 10 years old. My early understanding of this “place” was
shaped by a handful of people whose skills I admired and sought to emulate,
yet whose lives I felt great pity and sadness for. They were building the
cult of high tech in the hopes that it would somehow save them from whatever
they thought had prevented them from attaining happiness anywhere else.
Everything really was this big beautiful game, and here we were with an
overview of the whole jigsaw puzzle, and the sudden power to do anything we
wanted to do with it. For the first time in recent history you could reach
out and change reality, you could do stuff that affected everything and
everyone, and you were suddenly living this life that was like something out
of a comic book or adventure story….
It was a very interesting time and place in which to grow up. Of course, the
problem was that a lot of us didn’t grow up.
One day you wake up and come to realize that you’re seventeen or eighteen
going on 90. You understand that everything in the whole world is comprised
of bits and pieces of lies and half-truths, everyone is inherently corrupt,
including you; a lot of kids who used to be your friends are now all grown
up with no place to go and getting busted for such things as fraud and grand
larceny; and you have utterly lost touch with anything even remotely “real.”
snip-
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Halphen, Tammera
To: vector620022002@yahoo.com ; digital@phantom.com ; Drugwar@Mindvox. Com
(E-mail)
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 10:10 AM
Subject: FW: [drugwar] Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari
is Broken Completely]

Uh, guys, this has absolutely nothing to do with this list or the drugwar!
Why don’t you communicate among yourselves and leave the technical support
chatter off this list.  I do enough technical support where I work and
really don’t care to hear about it on the drugwar list!

Tammera Halphen
mailto:cannabis_flower@yahoo.com
http://www.radio-free-america.org
Cannabis friendly music, peace and justice speech and comedy about both.

To join my email list of news on the drug war and justice send an email to
mailto:Radio-Free-America-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or

go to

http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/radio-free-america and click on join

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 26, 2003 8:23 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; crashtestdummies@mindvox.com;
drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [drugwar] Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari
is Broken Completely]

The craziest part is that now David Hyatt will write 25 entries to his
web log on mozillazine as he tracks the problem.

Other then writing big pieces of most of the browsers being used on
OS/X David Hyatt needs to be medicated and taken away from his computer
and bong.

Or not 🙂

Besides OS X on the Mac using Safari, it loads under everything for
windows (I know I know, so shoot me, I need windows to play games! 🙂
and works under galleon, konquerer, mozilla and everything I’ve tried
under linux.

Open it already 🙂

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
Here, everybody needs to be aware of this.

My work here is done, I’m leaving now.

Patrick

ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 19:29:25 -0400
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: voxadm@mindvox.com, hyatt@apple.com
CC: sudo@dross.com
Subject: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely

Dear Mr. Hyatt,

I would like to bring your attention to a PROBLEM with Safari.

To wit, it Completely Breaks our Pretty Graphics; totally.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

(http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVox)

Just LOOK at that.  The purple psychedelic MindVox thing?  It’s
BROKEN!

Now then, Camino/Chimera, Mozilla, IE, and OmniWeb.  All load the
page,
just super-fine.  Whereas Safari WON’T.  Neither will Opera or iCab.

Surely you realize that having Safari correctly render the beta of
MindVox
II, is Absolutely *crucial* for the whole entire future of Apple as a
corporation — and do not want to live in shame; forever relegated to
the
browser ghetto with Opera and iCab.

It’s quite obvious that we should not have to fix our wacked-out
html,
which is hung around the uber-technology of Apple’s very own
WebObjects(TM)(C)(R)(SM).

The fate of universes lies within your hands.

Hopefully you will do the RIGHT THING.  I *need* to use Safari.  It’s
pretty, melty, and brushed-metal.  It makes me feel happy
inside.  Therefore: Make it GO! (Right away, if not sooner.)

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Patrick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

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From: “Dean Farrel” <deanfarrel62@lycos.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] doing what after ibogaine?
Date: April 27, 2003 at 3:00:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all. I think I’m part of the silent majority. I haven’t been here long but I feel a lot like amon said and related to his comments. Part of that I know is my own feelings about being addicted but part of that too is I relate to the being fucked up part that people here are. The difference is whether you all know it or not, most of you are very intimidating. I think the dumbest people who post here are some of the smartest people I’ve ever seen and the smartest ones I don’t understand at all.

You all are fucked up and very very smart. It is a little intimidating and makes me think whether or not I should ever say anything.

I read this and loved it

http://www.herointimes.com/mar03/intervent.html

Do the comments before mean that part 2 is not ever coming out then?

What I’m getting from all of you here is that after ibogaine you don’t have one answer for what to do but I don’t need to go back to the 12 step and treatment route. I live in northern California, any suggestions for contacts here or people who have done ibogaine and are not doing the steps?

Thanks
Dean

____________________________________________________________
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From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] 57 cents; fwd
Date: April 27, 2003 at 2:58:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

got this from my dad
I’m not much on these chains but this is a sweet story

i couldn’t think of 7 people whose email addresses i remember who would take kindly to this email, so i thought that sending it to the mailing list would cover me :)…please read all the way through, and let this serve as a reminder thatany higher power that has helped you in the past (god, allah, nature, that pattern on the wall you stared at for hours until the light changed and it suddenly became an answer) is something that can be a powerful tool in generating hope if you just tell others of your experience. Something out there is holding me close: otherwise I’d have died by now. The same surely applies to many on the list. Take what you need and leave the rest: don’t let dogma get in the way of something capable of generating such good karma.
i figured i need all the wishes i can get, and it can’t hurt to spread such a joyful story along.regardless of your faith, this is endearing, and maybe, just maybe, some of its hope will help us all. I want to stress that i am not attempting to preach; i am not a conservative christian in any way, but i have to remember to keep my mind open so that i can recieve gifts from any benevolent force that may be out there, and give of myself to anything-be it amnesty international or painting faces for kids at my grandmas church-benevolent in nature. Let us not close ourselves to anything that could help us. Let us not deny help to anyone in need.
“We can’t afford to let people come to harm; we owe them our lives…each breath is recycled from someone elses lungs; our enemies are the very air in disguise..our enemies are the air…..”ani difranco

Subject: 57 Cents

A sobbing little girl stood near a small church from which she had been turned away because it “was too crowded.” “I can’t go to Sunday School,” she sobbed to the pastor as he walked by.
Seeing her shabby, unkempt appearance, the pastor guessed the reason and, taking her by the hand, took her inside and found a place for her in the Sunday school class. The child was so happy that they found room for her, that she went to bed that night thinking of the children who have no place to worship Jesus.

Some two years later, this child lay dead in one of the poor tenement buildings and the parents called for the kindhearted pastor, who had befriended their daughter, to handle the final arrangements.
As her poor little body was being moved, a worn and crumpled purse was found which seemed to have been rummaged from some trash dump. Inside was found 57! cents and a note scribbled in childish handwriting which read, “This is to help build the little church bigger so more children can go to Sunday School. For two years she had saved for this offering of love.
When the pastor tearfully read that note, he knew instantly what he would do. Carrying this note and the cracked, red pocketbook to the pulpit, he told the story of her unselfish love and devotion.
He challenged his deacons to get busy and raise enough money for the larger building.
But the story does not end there!
A newspaper learned of the story and published it. It was read by a Realtor who offered them a parcel of land worth many thousands. When told that the church could not pay so much, he offered it for 57 cents.
Church members made large donations. Checks came from far and wide.
Within five years the little girl’s gift had increased to $250,000.00 a huge sum for that time (near the! turn of the century). Her unselfish
love had paid large dividend.
When you are in the city of Philadelphia, look up Temple Baptist Church, with a seating capacity of 3,300 and Temple University, where hundreds of students are trained.
Have a look, too, at the Good Samaritan Hospital and at a Sunday School building which houses hundreds of Sunday Schoolers, so that no child in
the area will ever need to be left outside during Sunday school time.
In one of the rooms of this building may be seen the picture of the sweet face of the little girl whose 57 cents, so sacrificially saved, made such remarkable history. Alongside of it is a portrait of her kind pastor, Dr. Russel H. Conwell, author of the book, “Acres of Diamonds”, a true story, which goes to show WHAT GOD, CAN DO WITH 57 cents.
Please send this back.- You’ll see why.

St. Theresa Prayer(cannot be deleted)

REMEMBER to make a wish before you read the prayer. That’s all you have to do. There is nothing attached. This is a powerful novena.! Just send this to four people and let me know what happens on the fourth day….
Do not break this, please. Prayer is one of the best free gifts we receive. There is no cost but a lot of reward. (This is true) (Did you make a wish?)
if you don’t make a wish, it won’t come true. Last Chance to Make a Wish

May today there be peace within
May you trust your highest power that you are exactly where you are
meant to be….
May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith
May you use those gifts that you have received, and pass on the love
that has been given to you….
May you be content knowing you are a child of God…. Let this presence
settle into our bones, and allow your soul the freedom to sing, dance,
It is there for each and every one of you….

Send This to 7 People within the next 5 minutes and your wish will come true

————————————————————————–
–=

_________________________________________________________________
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiates and Dreams
Date: April 27, 2003 at 12:18:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I too get something like this bro. I have the feeling of very much being
surrounded by people who have died and did not made it out when I do
ibo. I would think that if the people I saw were friends I used to have
who died or people I knew, then maybe I’m working out some kind of grief
or loss. But most of all what I get are people I don’t know at all and
have never seen before, around me.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:09:24 -0700 Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com> wrote:
Funny thing you should mention the lost souls of opiate addicts “feeding”
off
of your high, I’ve had that distinct notion multiple times, and
when I did
Ibogaine to kick I experienced one of those souls face to face.
She had
overdosed in the hotel I had lived in in the city, and she used
to live with
one of my “peers”. She had been described to me a few times back
in the day so
when I encountered her in my ibo experience, I knew exactly who
she was. She
appeared, begging me to fix, holding out my shooting kit, pleading
for me to
get her well. It was quite vivid and un-nerving and it took a while
to sink in
that this was some sort of excorcism. Some may call me crazy, but
I did
experience this and stranger things have happened.

~gamma

— booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely]
Date: April 27, 2003 at 12:09:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

David Hyatt is very annoying bro and you’re going to make him write another
40 pages about something.

I try to stay away from web anything and stick with graphic design but
some of the time that does not work out. I have had to deal with David
Hyatt making changes in everything which he doesn’t document and breaking
pages. Then our clients ask why Netscape doesn’t work any more, because
some guy changed everything 6 months ago is why.

He started with mozilla, quit and wrote 25 pages which were funny to
give him cred 😉 about how programming mozilla was being lost in a maze
in a adventure game where nobody remembers how anything works and there
are 2 guys left alive who still understand it, they haven’t written any
documentation.

He started chimera, then left that, he was on the Internet Explorer team,
left Microsoft, now he’s running Apple’s entire browser project. It
should take him another 3 months before he quits that and explains how
he can’t handle the pressure of working with himself anymore and starts
another project.

David Hyatt on mozilla and Netscape, a few paragraphs from the novel
he wrote about why he hates everybody:

…………

To that end, I have graciously and without pay designed a solution that
caters to everyone. I proudly present the splash screen manager.

You know, this is an excellent idea. I still think Mozilla needs a
Manager Manager to manage all of its various managers, so that you can

decide which managers should be actively managing and which should be

turned off (i.e., not managing).

Unfortunately, I don’t think this whole splash screen manager idea will
work for Safari. You see, oddly enough, we made it a priority to start
up virtually instantly, which makes a splash screen somewhat pointless.

I know! It’s clearly time to implement the Startup Delay Manager for

Safari. The entire browser can launch with a randomized delay, or maybe
it could slide in from the side of the screen, or it could dance its
way out of your dock while singing “Getting to Know You.”

Clearly this is something people want, so we’ll make it a priority. After
all, the users come first. The beta comes with:

Your wife sure is a lying, cheating whore splashscreen.

I can’t find my drugs splashscreen.

I have to go to the bathroom really badly splashscreen.

Sad (my cat just died) splashscreen.

Sad (my entire family was just killed in a train wreck) splashscreen.

Blake Ross couldn’t code his way out of a paper bag splashscreen.

Peace out and let David keep his bong, he needs it
Curtis

On Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:55:40 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
Here, everybody needs to be aware of this.

My work here is done, I’m leaving now.

Patrick

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From: “yarod33” <yarod33@jejerote.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a question…
Date: April 27, 2003 at 8:26:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vendes por correo?
Si es así ponte en contacto conmigo…
Pago bien…
Do you sell by mail?
If it is you contact this way me… I pay well…

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiates and Dreams
Date: April 27, 2003 at 8:23:20 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not “crazy” at all gamma – entity contact (and/or its simulation) seems to be part and parcel of the opiate and ibogaine experience.
The universe next door seems to be teaming with every fucking lifeforce under the sun including elves,african gods, your long deceased grandfather and of course,dead junkies.(the holographic universe of superimposition before the state vector collapses -it gets kinda crowded)
In none western cultures no-one would blink an eye. In the west it seems you gotta be selective about who you voice these encounters with –
you know the look when yr mention certain experiences to those who are firmly stuck in the locked groove of consensus reality:”shit,this guys fucking crazy..”
It seems that the only culturally valid location where you can undergo these experiences in the west is the asylum.

my response is the same as haldane’s : “the universe is not only stranger than we conceive, but stranger than we can conceive.” (or something like that)

paul.

(keep taking those entity mugshots gamma 😉

did i tell you about the time i smoked synthetic dmt with a shot of heroin…:)

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiates and Dreams
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 21:09:24 -0700 (PDT)

Funny thing you should mention the lost souls of opiate addicts “feeding” off
of your high, I’ve had that distinct notion multiple times, and when I did
Ibogaine to kick I experienced one of those souls face to face. She had
overdosed in the hotel I had lived in in the city, and she used to live with
one of my “peers”. She had been described to me a few times back in the day so
when I encountered her in my ibo experience, I knew exactly who she was. She
appeared, begging me to fix, holding out my shooting kit, pleading for me to
get her well. It was quite vivid and un-nerving and it took a while to sink in
that this was some sort of excorcism. Some may call me crazy, but I did
experience this and stranger things have happened.

~gamma

— booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:

———————————

Hi Allison. I’ve been taking some low doses of codeine due to practically
constant headaches lately and I record my dreams almost nightly.  Since I
started back on the codeine my dreams have definitely seemed to turn a little
darker, but maybe that’s partly because I sort of feel like I’m relapsing.
Don’t have the answer to that just yet, but another weird thing that used to
happen to me when I took morphine or strong doses of any opiates, that I’ve
always been curious about, is – right as I would sink into the “high” I would
feel like there were a whole bunch of “beings” around me and it would
definitely feel dark and damp in that space.  I know it sounds nuts but I often
had the feeling that folks that’d died who were opiate addicts were hanging out
around me to get some sort of “contact high.” The feeling would only last a
bit, and then it was like I travelled past it… I talked a few years ago to a
fellow who said he had that same feeling, but no one else has ever mentioned
it.  Just wondering if anyone around here had ever had that impression.

I definitely had dreams when getting high, but like I said, it seems like there
was very often a dark cast to things.

Best wishes to all,  Sandy
>From: “Allison Senepart” >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: >Subject: Re:
[ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action >Date: Thu, 24
Apr 2003 23:32:20 +1200 > >Question for Marc and anyone else out there. When we
use morphine and >Heroin we don’t dream, or I don’t think we do. When we stop
and come off we >start dreaming at night again. I’ve noticed that at first the
dreams are >scary and we often wake up calling out. After a few months we dream
lots >and lots and often wake up laughing and talking in our sleep. Both myself
>and my partner Wayne have picked up on that. Is that a normal progression >to
coming off opoids or what. Does anyone know or have similar experiences. >..I
would like to hear from anyone else who has an experience or opinion or
>explanation. Thanks Allison >—– Original Message —–

———————————
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiates and Dreams
Date: April 27, 2003 at 12:09:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny thing you should mention the lost souls of opiate addicts “feeding” off
of your high, I’ve had that distinct notion multiple times, and when I did
Ibogaine to kick I experienced one of those souls face to face. She had
overdosed in the hotel I had lived in in the city, and she used to live with
one of my “peers”. She had been described to me a few times back in the day so
when I encountered her in my ibo experience, I knew exactly who she was. She
appeared, begging me to fix, holding out my shooting kit, pleading for me to
get her well. It was quite vivid and un-nerving and it took a while to sink in
that this was some sort of excorcism. Some may call me crazy, but I did
experience this and stranger things have happened.

~gamma

— booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:

———————————

Hi Allison. I’ve been taking some low doses of codeine due to practically
constant headaches lately and I record my dreams almost nightly.  Since I
started back on the codeine my dreams have definitely seemed to turn a little
darker, but maybe that’s partly because I sort of feel like I’m relapsing.
Don’t have the answer to that just yet, but another weird thing that used to
happen to me when I took morphine or strong doses of any opiates, that I’ve
always been curious about, is – right as I would sink into the “high” I would
feel like there were a whole bunch of “beings” around me and it would
definitely feel dark and damp in that space.  I know it sounds nuts but I often
had the feeling that folks that’d died who were opiate addicts were hanging out
around me to get some sort of “contact high.” The feeling would only last a
bit, and then it was like I travelled past it… I talked a few years ago to a
fellow who said he had that same feeling, but no one else has ever mentioned
it.  Just wondering if anyone around here had ever had that impression.

I definitely had dreams when getting high, but like I said, it seems like there
was very often a dark cast to things.

Best wishes to all,  Sandy
From: “Allison Senepart” >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: >Subject: Re:
[ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action >Date: Thu, 24
Apr 2003 23:32:20 +1200 > >Question for Marc and anyone else out there. When we
use morphine and >Heroin we don’t dream, or I don’t think we do. When we stop
and come off we >start dreaming at night again. I’ve noticed that at first the
dreams are >scary and we often wake up calling out. After a few months we dream
lots >and lots and often wake up laughing and talking in our sleep. Both myself
and my partner Wayne have picked up on that. Is that a normal progression >to
coming off opoids or what. Does anyone know or have similar experiences. >..I
would like to hear from anyone else who has an experience or opinion or
explanation. Thanks Allison >—– Original Message —–

———————————
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely]
Date: April 26, 2003 at 9:22:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The craziest part is that now David Hyatt will write 25 entries to his
web log on mozillazine as he tracks the problem.

Other then writing big pieces of most of the browsers being used on
OS/X David Hyatt needs to be medicated and taken away from his computer
and bong.

Or not 🙂

Besides OS X on the Mac using Safari, it loads under everything for
windows (I know I know, so shoot me, I need windows to play games! 🙂
and works under galleon, konquerer, mozilla and everything I’ve tried
under linux.

Open it already 🙂

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
Here, everybody needs to be aware of this.

My work here is done, I’m leaving now.

Patrick

ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 19:29:25 -0400
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: voxadm@mindvox.com, hyatt@apple.com
CC: sudo@dross.com
Subject: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely

Dear Mr. Hyatt,

I would like to bring your attention to a PROBLEM with Safari.

To wit, it Completely Breaks our Pretty Graphics; totally.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

(http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVox)

Just LOOK at that.  The purple psychedelic MindVox thing?  It’s
BROKEN!

Now then, Camino/Chimera, Mozilla, IE, and OmniWeb.  All load the
page,
just super-fine.  Whereas Safari WON’T.  Neither will Opera or iCab.

Surely you realize that having Safari correctly render the beta of
MindVox
II, is Absolutely *crucial* for the whole entire future of Apple as a
corporation — and do not want to live in shame; forever relegated to
the
browser ghetto with Opera and iCab.

It’s quite obvious that we should not have to fix our wacked-out
html,
which is hung around the uber-technology of Apple’s very own
WebObjects(TM)(C)(R)(SM).

The fate of universes lies within your hands.

Hopefully you will do the RIGHT THING.  I *need* to use Safari.  It’s
pretty, melty, and brushed-metal.  It makes me feel happy
inside.  Therefore: Make it GO! (Right away, if not sooner.)

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Patrick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] [digital@phantom.com: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely]
Date: April 26, 2003 at 7:55:40 PM EDT
To: crashtestdummies@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Cc: sacrament@mindvox.com, kotas4christ@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Here, everybody needs to be aware of this.

My work here is done, I’m leaving now.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [voxadm] Safari is Broken Completely
Date: April 26, 2003 at 7:29:25 PM EDT
To: voxadm@mindvox.com, hyatt@apple.com
Cc: sudo@dross.com
Reply-To: voxadm@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Hyatt,

I would like to bring your attention to a PROBLEM with Safari.

To wit, it Completely Breaks our Pretty Graphics; totally.

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv04/

(http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVox)

Just LOOK at that.  The purple psychedelic MindVox thing?  It’s BROKEN!

Now then, Camino/Chimera, Mozilla, IE, and OmniWeb.  All load the page,
just super-fine.  Whereas Safari WON’T.  Neither will Opera or iCab.

Surely you realize that having Safari correctly render the beta of MindVox
II, is Absolutely *crucial* for the whole entire future of Apple as a
corporation — and do not want to live in shame; forever relegated to the
browser ghetto with Opera and iCab.

It’s quite obvious that we should not have to fix our wacked-out html,
which is hung around the uber-technology of Apple’s very own
WebObjects(TM)(C)(R)(SM).

The fate of universes lies within your hands.

Hopefully you will do the RIGHT THING.  I *need* to use Safari.  It’s
pretty, melty, and brushed-metal.  It makes me feel happy
inside.  Therefore: Make it GO! (Right away, if not sooner.)

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Patrick

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?Ya me too
Date: April 26, 2003 at 2:43:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,

So why are you posting to the list/telling me, then
unsubscribe. The instructions have been posted ad
nauseum over and over and are included in every email
from the list  (see the header info).  That is what I
mean about people being in love with the problem, the
solution is right there in front of them, tell them
over and over but they still complain as if they
heard/read/understood nothing that was said. Of course
I am completely innocent of doing such a thing…

Brett

List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>

— Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I would like to UN-SUBSCRIBE To0Oo0

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
I really enjoyed this 🙂

Mindvox was always this legend from the dawn of time
that I heard about
and only saw the history of, I regret that I was
never on it when it
opened. But I was 7 then and didn’t know I wanted to
be part of it.

This almost made me cry with nostalgia for something
I never witnessed.
You just can’t buy that kind of customer service
anymore. Thank you
Patrick that was beautiful. And I was here when it
happened instead of
reading google groups for the 5,000 complaints
people posted about old
Mindvox ‘and this drunk guy called me a idiot and
slammed down the
phone when I called customer service. They billed my
credit card 5
times this month’

That was really beautiful. I mean that.

‘MindVox: Where the Customer is Always Wrong’

So when do you all plan on opening it? Can’t help
but notice it’s all
sitting right there 🙂

.:vector:.

— Jon Freedlander wrote:

Patrick, you aer a great, great man.

==========================================================================
|
|
| League of Surrealist Discord –
www.lsdrecords.com |
|
|
| ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…
|

————————————————————————–

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

———————————
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.
http://search.yahoo.com

From: Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?Ya me too
Date: April 26, 2003 at 11:38:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would like to UN-SUBSCRIBE To0Oo0

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

I really enjoyed this 🙂

Mindvox was always this legend from the dawn of time that I heard about
and only saw the history of, I regret that I was never on it when it
opened. But I was 7 then and didn’t know I wanted to be part of it.

This almost made me cry with nostalgia for something I never witnessed.
You just can’t buy that kind of customer service anymore. Thank you
Patrick that was beautiful. And I was here when it happened instead of
reading google groups for the 5,000 complaints people posted about old
Mindvox ‘and this drunk guy called me a idiot and slammed down the
phone when I called customer service. They billed my credit card 5
times this month’

That was really beautiful. I mean that.

‘MindVox: Where the Customer is Always Wrong’

So when do you all plan on opening it? Can’t help but notice it’s all
sitting right there 🙂

.:vector:.

— Jon Freedlander wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Patrick, you aer a great, great man.
>
>
>
>
>
==========================================================================
> |
> |
> | League of Surrealist Discord –
> www.lsdrecords.com |
> |
> |
> | ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…
> |
>
————————————————————————–
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 11:14:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

they each paid (25/3)+1=9.33

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:11:55 -0700

Randy, bro you have totally lost me here. So what then is the answer
you have in mind?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:18:29 -0700 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>They are using bad math.  You have to put the parenthesis in the
>right
>place.
>10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)  as an example….
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
>>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid $8.33
>>for the room.
>>
>>right?
>>
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have a question for you:
>> >
>> > Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
>> > them that room costs
>> > 30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.
>> >
>> > A while later the receptionist remembered that the
>>room
>> > costed only 25$, so
>> > he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
>> > The assistant couldn’t
>> > figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he
>> > returned 1$ to each
>> > of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each
>> > of three friends paid
>> > 9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)
>> >
>> > Where is 1$??
>> >
>> > =)
>> >
>> > Marko
>>
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>
>
>

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 11:14:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

they each paid (25/3)+1=9.33

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 15:11:55 -0700

Randy, bro you have totally lost me here. So what then is the answer
you have in mind?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:18:29 -0700 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>They are using bad math.  You have to put the parenthesis in the
>right
>place.
>10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)  as an example….
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
>>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
>>Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)
>>
>>They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid $8.33
>>for the room.
>>
>>right?
>>
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I have a question for you:
>> >
>> > Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
>> > them that room costs
>> > 30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.
>> >
>> > A while later the receptionist remembered that the
>>room
>> > costed only 25$, so
>> > he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
>> > The assistant couldn’t
>> > figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he
>> > returned 1$ to each
>> > of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each
>> > of three friends paid
>> > 9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)
>> >
>> > Where is 1$??
>> >
>> > =)
>> >
>> > Marko
>>
>>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>
>
>
>

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From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] hackernology needed.
Date: April 25, 2003 at 8:46:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

contact ICann, and complain he has invalid WHOIS info

THE REGISTRANT IS AN INDIVIDUAL WHO HAS ELECTED TO
HAVE THEIR ADDRESS OMITTED FROM THE WHOIS DATABASE

ICANN policy states they must post this information.

Or contact Nominet, thy will have about 14 days to post
correct contact info, or domain will be seized

mindvoxians >

This is fucking outrageous > some middle class teacher
has put together this
website in england basically “outing” dealers/users of
crack and heroin
through the use of “photographic evidence”.

www.crackcocaineincamden.co.uk

OS  Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Linux  Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) PHP/4.3.0  25-Apr-2003
217.146.97.24   Merula

ok mindvox hacker types -whats the most quick and
effective way to fuck this
site up (theoretically speaking).

he’s got loadsa media attention and praise for this
site and the real fear
is that this could be the wave of the future –
“outing”
users on the net for
all to see.

im sure this has been done elsewhere in the world but
this seems new for
england.some user groups have suggested “dialogue” – i
suggest immediate and
total cessation b.a.m.n.

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool emoticons
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] hackernology needed.
Date: April 25, 2003 at 8:32:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

mindvoxians >

This is fucking outrageous > some middle class teacher has put together this website in england basically “outing” dealers/users of crack and heroin through the use of “photographic evidence”.

www.crackcocaineincamden.co.uk

OS  Server Last changed IP address Netblock Owner
Linux  Apache/1.3.27 (Unix) PHP/4.3.0  25-Apr-2003  217.146.97.24   Merula

ok mindvox hacker types -whats the most quick and effective way to fuck this site up (theoretically speaking).

he’s got loadsa media attention and praise for this site and the real fear is that this could be the wave of the future – “outing” users on the net for all to see.

im sure this has been done elsewhere in the world but this seems new for england.some user groups have suggested “dialogue” – i suggest immediate and total cessation b.a.m.n.

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 7:08:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis,

Randy, bro you have totally lost me here. So what
then is the answer
you have in mind?

That

10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)  as an
example….

was the (or an) answer 10+10+10=30 is
the original payment for the room, 30 bucks.

Then that equals

1+1+1 is the dollar each they get back  that is 3
2 more for the kid that is 2

For a total of 5 (1+1+1+2) bucks returned

Now add that to 25/3+25/3+25/3=30 (natural order is /
first)

30=5+25 is the same as

10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)

The anwer is BAD MATH the above is a correct answer.

Gee, I think I finally might be snapping out of my
drug haze, thanks Marko.

Brett

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:18:29 -0700 Randy Hencken
<randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
They are using bad math.  You have to put the
parenthesis in the
right
place.
10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)  as an
example….

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)

They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid
$8.33
for the room.

right?

Hi all,

I have a question for you:

Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist
told
them that room costs
30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the
room.

A while later the receptionist remembered that
the
room
costed only 25$, so
he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three
friends.
The assistant couldn’t
figure out how to divide 5$ among three people,
so he
returned 1$ to each
of three friends and he kept 2$. This means
that each
of three friends paid
9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 =
29)

Where is 1$??

=)

Marko

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online

http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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get
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: MAPS: Upcoming Conference
Date: April 25, 2003 at 6:28:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis you may be a hippie who says bro too much but I’m LMAO reading
this.

That’d do it too.

That’s it! Now they’re arresting 3l337 hackers with the cure for
addiction! I’m spending 50 million on a ad campaign and hiring 20
lawyers to start off with.

What will they do next? Try to stop me from encrypting my personal
things or stop running a open relay mail server?

Oh, they already did that. I’m suing all of them too. 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

I’ve thought about this. And I think I have the solution.

At the conference John Gilmore had no interest that I can see in
promoting
any ibogaine studies and is much more of the mindset fuck the
government
let’s start mass growing it in greenhouses. John Gilmore supports all
sorts of drug causes and was the main money behind the EFF starting.
The EFF started because the government was arresting the entire
Legion
of Doom and taking 200 other people with it.

Like Brian corrected me a few months ago the hacker defense fund came
from money from Sun, the Grateful Dead and Lotus 1-2-3.

John Gilmore sues everybody all the time. Right now he is still suing
John Ashcroft because someone had the nerve to ask him for ID to get
on a plane 🙂

For John Gilmore to wake up and start supporting ibogaine, all that
needs
to happen is Patrick has to get himself busted with around a kilo of
ibogaine on him. That’ll get a lot of press coverage and John Gilmore
will wake right up and start suing everybody.

Feeling up to it Patrick? It’s for a good cause bro 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 6:11:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy, bro you have totally lost me here. So what then is the answer
you have in mind?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:18:29 -0700 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
They are using bad math.  You have to put the parenthesis in the
right
place.
10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)  as an example….

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)

They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid $8.33
for the room.

right?

Hi all,

I have a question for you:

Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
them that room costs
30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.

A while later the receptionist remembered that the
room
costed only 25$, so
he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
The assistant couldn’t
figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he
returned 1$ to each
of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each
of three friends paid
9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)

Where is 1$??

=)

Marko

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fwd: MAPS: Upcoming Conference
Date: April 25, 2003 at 6:10:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve thought about this. And I think I have the solution.

At the conference John Gilmore had no interest that I can see in promoting
any ibogaine studies and is much more of the mindset fuck the government
let’s start mass growing it in greenhouses. John Gilmore supports all
sorts of drug causes and was the main money behind the EFF starting.
The EFF started because the government was arresting the entire Legion
of Doom and taking 200 other people with it.

Like Brian corrected me a few months ago the hacker defense fund came
from money from Sun, the Grateful Dead and Lotus 1-2-3.

John Gilmore sues everybody all the time. Right now he is still suing
John Ashcroft because someone had the nerve to ask him for ID to get
on a plane 🙂

For John Gilmore to wake up and start supporting ibogaine, all that needs
to happen is Patrick has to get himself busted with around a kilo of
ibogaine on him. That’ll get a lot of press coverage and John Gilmore
will wake right up and start suing everybody.

Feeling up to it Patrick? It’s for a good cause bro 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 06:03:26 -0700 Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
wrote:
Why isn’t there an Ibogaine presenter at this conference? Why not

Patrick, for instance? Why did all of these people (with the
exception of Gilmore) take a pass on our ibo forum, and then fail
to
include Ibogaine in a conference on psychedelics?

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Dana/cnw

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:51:16 -0400
From: Brandy Doyle <brandymaps@earthlink.net>
Subject: MAPS: Upcoming Conference
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Status:

MAPS would like to draw its members’ attention to the Mind States
IV
conference, where we will have a booth.

The conference, held May 23-25 at the International House in Berkeley,

will
likely be of interest to MAPS members. Invited presenters include
Pablo
Amaringo, Anton Barbeau, Susan Blackmore, Richard Glen Boire, Erik
Davis,
Earth & Fire Erowid, John Gilmore, Alex & Allyson Grey, Stanislav
Grof,
Lorenzo Hagerty, Mark Henson, Martina Hoffmann, Mark McCloud, Ralph
Metzner,
Naaskow, David E. Nichols, Sheldon Norberg, Mark Pesce, Stevee
Postman, V.S.
Ramachandran, Nicholas Sand, Wrye Sententia, Zoe Seven, Ann & Sasha
Shulgin,
R.U. Sirius, Myron Stolaroff, Robert Venosa, and others. There
will be
lectures, art, music, films, theater, a chill space, vendors, and
more.

More information is available at http://www.mindstates.org

Tickets are selling fast for this event, and it is expected to
sell out.
Tickets are $225.00 each until May 15, or $250.00 from May 16th,
from: Mind
States, POB 19820, Sacramento, CA 95819. Credit card payments can
be made
through the web site.

Come join us for what is sure to be an entertaining and educational
event!

— MAPS

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 25, 2003 at 6:05:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good answer 🙂

Peace out and fuck off 😉
Curtis

On Fri, 25 Apr 2003 14:46:10 -0700 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

I really enjoyed this 🙂

Mindvox was always this legend from the dawn of time that I heard
about
and only saw the history of, I regret that I was never on it when
it
opened. But I was 7 then and didn’t know I wanted to be part of
it.

This almost made me cry with nostalgia for something I never witnessed.
You just can’t buy that kind of customer service anymore. Thank
you
Patrick that was beautiful. And I was here when it happened instead
of
reading google groups for the 5,000 complaints people posted about
old
Mindvox ‘and this drunk guy called me a idiot and slammed down the
phone when I called customer service. They billed my credit card
5
times this month’

That was really beautiful. I mean that.

‘MindVox: Where the Customer is Always Wrong’

So when do you all plan on opening it? Can’t help but notice it’s
all
sitting right there 🙂

.:vector:.

— Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

Patrick, you aer a great, great man.

==========================================================================
|

|
| League of Surrealist Discord        –
www.lsdrecords.com |
|

|
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…

|

—————————————————————-
———-

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 25, 2003 at 5:46:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I really enjoyed this 🙂

Mindvox was always this legend from the dawn of time that I heard about
and only saw the history of, I regret that I was never on it when it
opened. But I was 7 then and didn’t know I wanted to be part of it.

This almost made me cry with nostalgia for something I never witnessed.
You just can’t buy that kind of customer service anymore. Thank you
Patrick that was beautiful. And I was here when it happened instead of
reading google groups for the 5,000 complaints people posted about old
Mindvox ‘and this drunk guy called me a idiot and slammed down the
phone when I called customer service. They billed my credit card 5
times this month’

That was really beautiful. I mean that.

‘MindVox: Where the Customer is Always Wrong’

So when do you all plan on opening it? Can’t help but notice it’s all
sitting right there 🙂

.:vector:.

— Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

Patrick, you aer a great, great man.

==========================================================================
|
|
| League of Surrealist Discord        –
www.lsdrecords.com |
|
|
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…
|

————————————————————————–

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 5:18:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They are using bad math.  You have to put the parenthesis in the right place.
10+10+10=(1+1+1+2)+(25/3)+(25/3)+(25/3)  as an example….

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT)

They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid $8.33
for the room.

right?

>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a question for you:
>
> Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
> them that room costs
> 30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.
>
> A while later the receptionist remembered that the
room
> costed only 25$, so
> he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
> The assistant couldn’t
> figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he
> returned 1$ to each
> of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each
> of three friends paid
> 9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)
>
> Where is 1$??
>
> =)
>
> Marko

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC – get McAfee.com VirusScan Online  http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (OT) Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 5:21:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shouldn’t this be $9.33, not $8.33?
V figured it out, if this is the right answer, ’cause I sure didn’t.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: AMON
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question

They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid $8.33
for the room.

right?

Hi all,

I have a question for you:

Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
them that room costs
30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.

A while later the receptionist remembered that the
room
costed only 25$, so
he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
The assistant couldn’t
figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he
returned 1$ to each
of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each
of three friends paid
9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)

Where is 1$??

=)

Marko

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 4:53:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ummm, the $2 needs to be subtracted from the $27, not
added to it for a total (cost for the room) of $25.
25+2+3=30 no matter how you slice it, or 30-(2+3)=25.

So, yeah, it is 3*9=27 and minus the 2 bucks in the
pocket is 25 for the room.

but it might work on someone who isn’t from NYC…

Brett

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi all,

I have a question for you:

Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
them that room costs
30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the
room.

A while later the receptionist remembered that the
room costed only 25$, so
he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
The assistant couldn’t
figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so
he returned 1$ to each
of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that
each of three friends paid
9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)

Where is 1$??

=)

Marko

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 4:37:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They THINK they only paid 9$. They actually paid $8.33
for the room.

right?

Hi all,

I have a question for you:

Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told
them that room costs
30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.

A while later the receptionist remembered that the
room
costed only 25$, so
he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends.
The assistant couldn’t
figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he
returned 1$ to each
of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each
of three friends paid
9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)

Where is 1$??

=)

Marko

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] question
Date: April 25, 2003 at 4:27:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

I have a question for you:

Three friends checked ino a motel. Receptionist told them that room costs 30$. Each of them paid 10$ and they went to the room.

A while later the receptionist remembered that the room costed only 25$, so he sent his assistant to return 5$ to three friends. The assistant couldn’t figure out how to divide 5$ among three people, so he returned 1$ to each of three friends and he kept 2$. This means that each of three friends paid 9$ (3 x 9 = 27) and assistant kept 2$ (27 + 2 = 29)

Where is 1$??

=)

Marko

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 24, 2003 at 9:58:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, you aer a great, great man.

==========================================================================
|                                                                        |
| League of Surrealist Discord        –               www.lsdrecords.com |
|                                                                        |
|                  ‘Tis an ill wind that blows no minds…               |
————————————————————————–

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 24, 2003 at 6:27:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What does this mean? Who shouldn’t be getting
ibogaine? Do you mean for
physical reasons?

People with heart disease (for instance) should not
take ibogaine (least in any quantity), neither should
people overly interested in “the other side” (they
sometimes don’t come back…). IMO any serious active
disease process like AIDS (not just HIV), Hep C (not
asymptomatic HCV infection), TB (not just “exposed”),
serious infection…, should not be full-blown detoxed
with ibogaine (IMO). Ibo is some vigorous stuff, it is
very long and arduous, if something is weak enough to
break during the session you don’t want to do it.

There are also ranges of dosages and different use.
Marc’s description of that patient  is not
representative of what you are likely to experience
IMO. You will not be detoxing (or do you have to tell
us something???) and need something more on the
“initiatory” dose range (smaller dose). How far/how
much can vary greatly, sometimes even a much smaller
dose can be quite effective though different than
larger doses, Dave posted a 300mg’ish dose a couple
months ago that was more than expected. I also know
someone who did a little 1.75 of Indra lately and was
very surprised. There is a lot of confusion about
ibogaine, dosages, effects, how long to recover, how
it is done… IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH YOU TAKE, OF WHAT
AND FOR WHAT/WHY as well as who you are and how you in
particular react to ibogaine. Vivian and I do smaller
100-150 mg doses, 3 hours later it is life as normal
though I wouldn’t drive a car, there is no “trip” and
you don’t go far. 12mg/kg, both of us come out of it
very quickly, I am up and at em after a day (24
hours), Vivian is fine by the next afternoon though we
keep it low-key for a day or so, that is it. I know
someone who detoxed on a lite addiction on an amount
similar (to 12mg/kg), he refused to heed advice, like
didn’t eat/ate candy/soda (literally) to recover…
and stayed in bed for 4 days. Different people,
different reasons, different procedure and different
experience and recovery period (if any). Also, at a
high dose it typically is going to take longer to
recover from Indra than someone using HCL. My point
was that to try ibo and get some benefit doesn’t have
to be such a big deal. You can do 100-200mg (some
won’t even notice much of anything), sit back (relax
and don’t move much) and notice little, just relaxing
into it, like a deep meditation, maybe a bit more. The
next day there isn’t going to be much to notice,
except maybe the sun is shinier, the sky is bluer, the
air fresher… the thoughts are clear and the heart
more at peace. I mean, isn’t that some of what you are
asking for (so you get less of it… with less ibo)?
You don’t have to get to the earth shaking, near NDE,
out of body, ego crushing,  MEGA DOSE ibogaine trip
for days to get there. Double that (3-400mg) and you
are getting into  low level vision area but minimal
recovery time if any. Some people get full-blown trips
on this level though recovery will be less and it will
be much shorter. So it is highly variable as to
effects which depend on how you do it, how much, what
kind of ibo, who you are, if you are addicted, to
what, why you take ibogaine… That is one reason for
a test dose (ie 100mg HCL – 1gm of Indra), to judge
your reaction, in fact that IS A TEST DOSE.

THe mistery of ibo is rather simple, it removes the
gunk, patch-job/leaky wiring we had installed, the
bunch of smoke, mirrors and obstacles we placed around
us and in our paths. It removes the ego, the blindfold
and lets you see, do and be who you are. It opens
opportunities, changes the rules, extends the
possibilities and like that. In a way, it is some very
strange stuff but extremely natural, loving,
peaceful… Sometimes your ego/disease or whatever you
call it don’t want it, that is where the battle lies.
To an addict it is “FUCKED UP SHIT” (think holy water
on a vampire), every time I use to do it, though clean
I did it with dread.. We often don’t want to let go of
things, even if consciously we do, that is why I
believe people fear ibo as they do. They will see, no
rose colored glasses, no filters, no blind-fold, they
will see and they will understand from a perspective
that simply does not exist normally (ie including the
other persons perspective). All laid out in front of
you, fucking crystal clear (or is that crystal fucking
clear?) – that is terror and that is one of the
wonders of ibogaine. Do it in a relationship or life’s
stuff and see it “crystal fucking clear”… that is
big stuff, scary stuff, good stuff, healing stuff,
sometimes painful stuff (the battle).  The thing is,
once on ibogaine you can look at these things (crystal
fucking clear) and deal with them, understand them,
accept them – or whatever.

Or, if you would rather stay where you are for a bit
longer… that is up to you <ggg>.

I’m not sure what
you mean by “circulation issues.” I’ve not had

With all the damage, the leg/abdominal surgeries, just
askin.

Brett

cancer, but do have some
trouble with scar tissues seemingly interfering with
normal digestion. And
yes, I do take milk thistle, but not as regularly as
I should I imagine.

Again, thanks to all who took time to respond to my
notes. I only wish I
could more eloquently express my gratitude and
clearly explain how helpful
just knowing there are others out there who are
concerned about my well
being is to my mental health. And a special thanks
to Allison for the invite
to share mountain air and lake side with her and her
partner. I am dreaming
of a trip to Canada, (and with Marc’s description of
some sessions, it seems
to me that I don’t really want to do it at home- not
to mention that
legality thing) but due to absolute lack of funding
at the moment, (and not
actually having filled out an application for ITH so
don’t know if I even
qualify yet) itsa gonna have to wait a little while
I think. Until I figure
out what I want and can do, and how I want to do it,
I’m going to have to
maintain here for at least a little while longer.
Hopefully, a number of you will be here in NYC
for the ibogaine
conference.
Peace all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C,
the sitter, medical
action

Another one from me (Allison).  Have just been
reading about people on the
list with health problems, a lot of it bones,
muscles, and operations.
Wayne, my partner has had 2 operations on his spine,
disc fusions and then
after finally starting to recover from them broke
his ankle and it just will
not heal.  He seems to think it has a lot to do with
drug use and the lack
of calcium in his bones because of years of morphine
and heroin use plus
years of methadone which has also affected his teeth
and caused rot and
dental problems.    Would that be correct or what.
Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:05 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the
sitter, medical action

Hi Preston,

We have treateed many patients with Hepatitus C
with no adverse affects.
Sandra, our health screener, has an enzyme
threshold that determines the
safety of the procedure, so far we have had no
problems with those we’ve
treated.

Our most recent patient was a very high volume
user of heroin, woman, 29
years old. Her very heavy iboga experience, with
full on two movie screens
under her eyelids (her description) lasted 96
hours. Consider that. 96
hours
of a patient seeming to speak in tongues, her
brains apparently scrambled,
not eating anything and drinking little. Non stop
visualization.

She did not come back to our world here lucidly
until about hour 102 or
so.

So if you want a person with no experience to sit
beside you while you go
for days without eating, drinking, babbling what
appears to be
undecipherable, hallucinating….

You need a person to watch you or monitor you 24
hours a day while you are
‘out there’. They should know what to do if you
fall unconscious, which
has
happened to an older patient (59 years old with
many medical problems). We
took him to the nearby hospital. His electrolyte
level dropped. We learned
from that. Now they get Gatorade throughout the
recovery. He was fine.

The minimum ‘out there’ time is about 20 hours,
averaging about 24 hours,
but is much longer if the patient is very polluted
by drugs and the dosage
I
give is in the high end range. I gave the young
woman cited about 5,000 mg
(5 grams) of Indra Iboga Extract, she weighed only
115 pounds, it was a
very
high dose but she was a very big daily user of
heroin. She was completely
detoxed when she emerged from the experience after
about 101 hours after
administration. That her brains seemed scrambled
even in the fourth day
concerned me but she later had quite an
interesting explanation for it (“I
was resisting the ibogaine so I couldn’t make my
thoughts heard. Once I
gave
in to the iboga, everything was in sync.”)  She
had many revelatory
comments
though in the first 8 hours I monitored her, like
‘ I have made so many
bad
decisions in my life…’ and ‘ I keep seeing over
and over trivial parts
of
my life that aren’t important’. The last one makes
me smile. Eliana (who
is
on this list serve) had exactly the same comments
during her intense but
very lucidly narrated visualizations. But later
they take on substantial
meaning in the post-visualization period.

If there is anything else you would like to know
about our experience at
Iboga Therapy House, just ask.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important
what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first
then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who
is constantly reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to
that aforementioned lack
of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and
also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action
is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out
that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve
been cases where
Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and
what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an
ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it
appeared to me that it
woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be
questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly
detrimental to the purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with
the constant distration
of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so
dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it
simply be a loved one who
does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of
opinion on this one, with
some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private
home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone
or other is there.
Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to
voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com
today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works
,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain
medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you canīt stand the
pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what
you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first
then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing
with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered
femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain,
and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid
for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously
visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday
because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to
talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here
working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and
for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early.
I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my
doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my
doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last
time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing
that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing
pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as
I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of
other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure
what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to
suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for
FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists
to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my
doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me
this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I
want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking
pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found
at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana
(April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to
sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical
marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the
issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment
(April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number
associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his
involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22,
2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again;
first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too
hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of
Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at
Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the
legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure
of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past
years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate
marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in
London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple
sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep
(April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new
front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana
to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills
(April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop
on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly
and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in
Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested
yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a
half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the
authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to
Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and
compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the
detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives
them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use
has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical
marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal
cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production,
Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to
continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22,
2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of
pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air
above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of
American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer
dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go
back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However,
their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year
on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the
potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a
look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of
the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson
did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the
special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend
marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner
concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris
Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on
Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely
useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds
working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most
elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420
originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen
pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this
phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20,
2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the
‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to
commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban
Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed
much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer
systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being
paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these
systems to account for
its
funds.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] 41.3 KILOS OF LSD SEIZED.
Date: April 24, 2003 at 5:08:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CAN YOU PASS THE ACID TEST ?

PICKARD AND APPERSON CONVICTED OF LSD CHARGES
LARGEST LSD LAB SEIZURE IN DEA HISTORY

Special Agent in Charge Stephen Delgado, Drug Enforcement Administration, San Francisco Field Division, and United States Attorney Eric Melgren, District of Kansas, announced today that Bay Area residents William Leonard Pickard, 57, Mill Valley, California, and Clyde Apperson, 47, Sunnyvale, California, were found guilty today, following an eleven week jury trail of one count of conspiracy to manufacture and distribute more than 10 grams of LSD from August 1999 through November 2000 and one count of possession with the intent to distribute more than 10 grams of LSD on November 6, 2000.

Melgren stated that according to court testimony, this was the largest LSD lab seizure ever made by the Drug Enforcement Administration. DEA agents seized approximately 41.3 kilograms (90.86 pounds) of LSD, approximately 23.6 kilograms (51.92 pounds) of iso-LSD, a by-product from the manufacture of LSD.

Further trial evidence established that in the history of DEA there have only been four seizures of complete LSD labs and three of these seizures involved Packard and Apperson including a lab in Mountain View, California in 1998, a lab in Oregon in 1996, and this lab in Wamego, Kansas

According to court testimony, on October 31, 2000, DEA agents conducted a search of a silo site near Wamego, Kansas, and found a LSD lab packed in storage boxes. On November 6, 2000, Pickard and Apperson were moving the illegal lab when they were stopped by the Kansas Highway Patrol. Apperson was arrested driving the rental truck containing the lab. Pickard, who was driving a Buick LeSabre, fled on foot and was arrested the next day at a farm outside Wamego. Fourteen canisters of a chemical required to produce LSD valued at over $1,000,000 were found at the missile silo. According to court testimony, Pickard and Apperson previously manufactured LSD in Santa Fe, New Mexico, where every five weeks the lab produced about 2.2 pounds of LSD, approximately 10 million doses that cost less than one cent a dose to produce and would sell for as much as $10 a dose. According to court testimony, the LSD was shipped to California and later to Europe for distribution.

Pickard and Apperson each face a minimum of ten years and a maximum of life in federal prison without parole. Sentencing is scheduled for August 8, 2003 at 9:00 a. m. in Kansas. Pickard remains in federal custody and Apperson was remanded to federal custody today.

The DEA San Francisco office initiated this case and provided crucial assistance throughout the trial. SAC Delgado stated: “The investigators in this case displayed extraordinary tenacity and dedicated long hours away
from home and their families. LSD, like all illegal drugs, are a threat to
our children and our communities in the San Francisco Bay Area. The San Francisco office will continue its relentless efforts to protect the Nation
from the dangers posed by drug traffickers.”

United States Attorney Eric Melgren stated: “This is just one example of the fine work of the Drug Enforcement Administration, in cooperation with other law enforcement agencies, in the continuing fight against illegal drugs. We are pleased to have led the effort to protect our citizens against the dangers of LSD by this significant disruption in the nationwide supply of this drug.

SAC Delgado wishes to publicly thank United States Attorney Eric Melgren for his leadership in the prosecution of this case and all the local law enforcement agencies that helped us bring this case to today’s conclusion.

For additional information, please contact Special Agent Richard Meyer at the DEA San Francisco Division at 415-436-7994.

_________________________________________________________________
Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiates and Dreams
Date: April 24, 2003 at 4:41:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Allison. I’ve been taking some low doses of codeine due to practically constant headaches lately and I record my dreams almost nightly.  Since I started back on the codeine my dreams have definitely seemed to turn a little darker, but maybe that’s partly because I sort of feel like I’m relapsing.  Don’t have the answer to that just yet, but another weird thing that used to happen to me when I took morphine or strong doses of any opiates, that I’ve always been curious about, is – right as I would sink into the “high” I would feel like there were a whole bunch of “beings” around me and it would definitely feel dark and damp in that space.  I know it sounds nuts but I often had the feeling that folks that’d died who were opiate addicts were hanging out around me to get some sort of “contact high.” The feeling would only last a bit, and then it was like I travelled past it… I talked a few years ago to a fellow who said he had that same feeling, but no one else has ever mentioned it.  Just wondering if anyone around here had ever had that impression.
I definitely had dreams when getting high, but like I said, it seems like there was very often a dark cast to things.
Best wishes to all,  Sandy

>From: “Allison Senepart”

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To:

>Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action

>Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 23:32:20 +1200

>

>Question for Marc and anyone else out there. When we use morphine and

>Heroin we don’t dream, or I don’t think we do. When we stop and come off we

>start dreaming at night again. I’ve noticed that at first the dreams are

>scary and we often wake up calling out. After a few months we dream lots

>and lots and often wake up laughing and talking in our sleep. Both myself

>and my partner Wayne have picked up on that. Is that a normal progression

>to coming off opoids or what. Does anyone know or have similar experiences.

>..I would like to hear from anyone else who has an experience or opinion or

>explanation. Thanks Allison

>—– Original Message —–

The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………
Date: April 24, 2003 at 3:36:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Apr 23, 2003 at 06:05:09PM -0700], [crownofthorns@hushmail.com] wrote:

| I think the reason they end up here is because if you do a search for
| heroin on any search engine, you land on heroin times in the top 10 hits
| because they have every issue online. Then in every issue for something
| like 2 years are Patrick’s columns, then he had some fight about what
| he was getting paid and stopped writing for them but they keep reprinting
| his articles in every issue that comes and they keep reprinting Howard.

Do0d.  While I strongly believe that facts only get in the way of things.
Just to interject a comment here…  This is NOT true.  I don’t have any
problems with Jerry, he’s a nice guy.  Heroin Times is not necessarily
what I would put together, but then, it’s not my magazine.

You hang out with Francis, so some of his opinions regarding HT may have
worn off upon you.  Heroin Helper *IS* a much better publication, but my
actual issue, was very simple: I’m out of time.

I have 1001 things to finish right now.  I do not have the time to respond
to the email it generates.  Which all falls into one of three categories:

[01]: Gosh you’re neat, allow me to continue for 20 paragraphs.  (i.e., I
am lonely, bored and crazy.  I want to chat.)

[02]: You’re an asshole and I hate you.  You need to go to a meeting and
share.  (i.e., I am lonely, bored and crazy.  I want to chat.)

[03]: Here is my list of 300 questions about ibogaine.  Please answer all
of them.  Can you get me some!?!?!?!?

Uhm…  I’m done now.

laters,

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 24, 2003 at 3:27:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Apr 24, 2003 at 09:25:05AM +0300], [Byron] wrote:

Hey dude,

Usually I post, just, like, as myself ya know…?  Emitting my thoughts
and words and things.  But allow me to Officially Represent the Whole
Entire MindVox(TM)(SM(R)(Patent Pending)

| SO HOW DO WE GET THE FUCK OFF THIS LIST, DOES IT COME DOWN TO REPORTING
| YOUR GROUP TO ICANN OR THE DNS THAT HELPS PROVIDE THIS.? OR IS IT A
| COMBINATION OF THE TWO?

Dear sir,

It’s unfortunate that you’re a complete fucking idiot.  Sadly, it really
isn’t our problem.  Please feel free to contact ICANN, our DNS, our uplink
provider, your grandmother, the police, and everybody on the whole entire
planet in general.

Sadly, you will find that nobody really gives a shit (with the possible
exception of your grandmother).  It is not our job to play secretary for
individuals who take it upon themselves to sign up to a list — which
requires validation to an auto-reply FROM the address you are signing up
with — and are too fucking stupid to READ the instructions that are
cleverly hidden in <drum roll> that very message.

In conclusion, on behalf of management: please feel free to fuck off and
die.  I meant to say, I hope you find the help you need.  God bless you my
child.

Patrick Kroupa

– – – – – – – – –

Date: 30 Mar 2003 09:24:03 -0000
From: ibogaine-help@mindvox.com
Subject: CONFIRM subscribe to ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: byron@unseenhand.net

Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I’m managing the
ibogaine@mindvox.com mailing list.

I’m working for my owner, who can be reached
at ibogaine-owner@mindvox.com.

I respectfully request your permission to add

byron@unseenhand.net

to the subscribers of the ibogaine mailing list. This request
either came from you, or it has already been verified by
the potential subscriber.

To confirm, please send an empty reply to this address:

ibogaine-tc.1049016243.naliljdmdlkfholcimak-byron=unseenhand.net@mindvox.com

Usually, this happens when you just hit the “reply” button.
If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into
the “To:” field of a new message.

If you don’t approve, simply ignore this message.

Thank you for your help!

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To:
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Subject: RE: confirm subscribe to ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 12:24:27 +0300
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— Administrative commands for the ibogaine list —

[Cut…]  (Uhm, see, THIS PART HERE is the part where it tells you how to
unsubscribe.)

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE? – BYRON.
Date: April 24, 2003 at 3:14:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whoops > some people dont take kindly to moments of levity.(see below)
thats my fragile self-esteem shot through – where did i put those works 😉

Sorry if i offended you Byron – i hope bretts post on how to unsubscribe was helpful.

I would however suggest that you put ibogaine@mindvox on your spam filter – as an immediate temporary measure -that way at least you dont have to read any mail and your reasons for unsubscribing should cease.

“The reason was that I would receive a million mails that say nothing.”

please dont call the internet police mister, patricks a good boy really.

mindvox -deadlier than s.a.r.s.

paulx

FYI > i have a degree in philosophy – which could be well construed as idiocity.

From: “Byron” <Byron@unseenhand.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 09:25:05 +0300

Paul Jackamo very funny, wow you must be a graduate, in fucking
idiocity,,,,,
If you have no input as to help people here then fuck off.

I would like to know the same answer,,, I would like off this list and
hate the mail. I have been signed up to this mail group by somebody else
as a joke,
The reason was that I would receive a million mails that say nothing.

SO HOW DO WE GET THE FUCK OFF THIS LIST, DOES IT COME DOWN TO REPORTING
YOUR GROUP TO ICANN OR THE DNS THAT HELPS PROVIDE THIS.? OR IS IT A
COMBINATION OF THE TWO?

—–Original Message—–
From: paul jackamo [mailto:pauljackamo@hotmail.com]
Sent: 23 April 2003 21:38
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?

YOU DONT > THIS IS FOR ALL ETERNITY

>From: “A. Moore” <27andy@msn.com>
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>Subject: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
>Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:18:10 -0700
>

_________________________________________________________________
Surf together with new Shared Browsing
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=105
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Express yourself with cool emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine in New Zealand
Date: April 24, 2003 at 1:20:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

on 4/30/03 12:20 PM, Allison Senepart at aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz wrote:

Message for Allison really and others from NZ on the list. I was wondering what the legal status for ibogaine is over there and if there are currently any treatment centers in NZ?
I may be a bit behind and out of date as you may have already had this discussion but I go through periods of following this list and periods of abstinence!

Thanks

Hattie

In New Zealand if you have been on the methadone programme for a couple of years which they call long term and have no problems, you can opt to get your script from your local GP providing he is OK with that and then that frees up the programe waiting list and you just see your GP every couple of months, which costs a doctors visit fee but is lots easier and you can get takeaways every 2nd day or for a max of 4 or 5 over holiday periods.  Our clinics here revolve round councilling.  If you are on the National Health and methadone clinic you are obliged to see a councillor every month or so and be prepared to supply urine samples until proven trustworthy if that makes any sense and after that they let your own doctor keep an eye on you.  Tis easier but still the liquid handcuff situation.    Allison
PS  I have also been getting lots of spam about scripts on the net, valium, viagra and all sorts.  Is it cos we are on a drug sort of list, do they think we will buy anything???
Personally I wish they would bugger off and stop clogging up my mail box and taking my time up deleting their rubbish.
—– Original Message —–
From: Robin Downard <mailto:RobinLynnDownard@msn.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

Hi,
I live in Maryland.  I go in once a week at my clinic.  I pay $80 per week…..yes I said $80.00, eighty dollars, per week.  When I started , it was $70 per week.  It went up this year.  They also just recently started testing for marijuana.  They just stopped doing observed UAs.  The wait is not bad if you go at the the right time.  They have buses that bring Medical Assistance patients from Baltimore once or twice a day.  The clinic is open until 12noon, and they open at 5:30am.  I can only complain about the fee as I realize some people go to clinics from HELL.  Well, I hope this helped.

Take care,
Robin

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Skupien
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:10 PM
To: Ibogaine mailing list
Subject: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

I am writing in response to Tara, who was asking about other people who
are on methadone and their ability to take home your meth. I am in
Chicago, IL and I have been on meth for quite a while now. My clinic
doesn’t care about THC being found in your system. I only go in to get
medicated every 2 weeks. Soon I should be able to go in only once a
month! I always have THC in my system, as I smoke weed pretty much
every day. On top of that, I get to take home “dry” medication, which
they give to me in tablet form. Most other people who take their meth
home have water or juice put into it before they can carry it home. I
guess I found a really good clinic! I never have to wait in line more
than a couple minutes, and I’m always out the door in less than 5
minutes. The only bad part is that it costs $60.00 a week! I am curious
as to what other people pay for their meth, here in the US. Please
write to the list and let us know. My point for writing this is to say
that not all clinics are so lame, you just need to look around a bit,
and maybe you can find a better option for treatment. Before I went to
my current clinic, I opted for a slightly cheaper clinic, and it was a
royal pain, just like the one Tara goes to –  I had to go in 6 days a
week, and much of the time I had to wait more than 20 minutes
(sometimes up to an hour) just to get medicated. So, maybe you need to
look around at other meth clinics. Soon I hope to be going to the Iboga
therapy house and hopefully I will be able to leave the entire
methadone experience behind me, and hopefully you will too.

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 24, 2003 at 9:52:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Byron,

“> SO HOW DO WE GET THE FUCK OFF THIS LIST, DOES IT
COME DOWN TO REPORTING
YOUR GROUP TO ICANN OR THE DNS THAT HELPS PROVIDE”

It requires reading the mail header where it says
“List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com> “, parse the
email address (ibogaine-unsubscribe@ibogaine.com) out
and send it a (blank) email from the address you want
to unsubscribe from.

“have been signed up to this mail group by somebody
else as a joke,”

Maybe someone is trying to tell you sumthin…

Luck
Brett

For additional info;

List-Post: <mailto:ibogaine@mindvox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:ibogaine-help@mindvox.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com>
List-Subscribe:
<mailto:ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com>

— Byron <Byron@unseenhand.net> wrote:
I would like to know the same answer,,, I would like
off this list and
hate the mail. I have been signed up to this mail
group by somebody else
as a joke,
The reason was that I would receive a million mails
that say nothing.

SO HOW DO WE GET THE FUCK OFF THIS LIST, DOES IT
COME DOWN TO REPORTING
YOUR GROUP TO ICANN OR THE DNS THAT HELPS PROVIDE
THIS.? OR IS IT A
COMBINATION OF THE TWO?

—–Original Message—–
From: A. Moore [mailto:27andy@msn.com]
Sent: 23 April 2003 21:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 24, 2003 at 9:49:44 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No probs Preston.  Keep the invite in mind if you can get your fare etc
together and want to do it.  We live in the Lake Wanaka Area in the South
Island of New Zealand.  You could probably find something on the internet
cos its a tourist sort of place except we live out of town, thank God.  Good
luck and I did mean what I said if you & your girlfriend ever want to take
us up on that offer.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, April 25, 2003 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical
action

Allison wrote >He seems to think it has a lot to do with drug use and the
lack
of calcium in his bones because of years of morphine and heroin use plus
years of methadone which has also affected his teeth and caused rot and
dental problems.    Would that be correct or what. <

Just speaking from personal experience, my teeth were fine until I
began
methadone – then many of them seemed to all surrender at once. Don’t know
if
the two are related, but I’ve heard this before, that there is a
connection,
and I think we’ve discussed it here in the past but can’t remember what
was
decided.
To everyone who took the time to respond to my questions and
frustrations, thanks very, very much. Marc, Howard, Allison, Brett, Bill,
Sara, Marcus, Patrick, and anyone else who I may have missed in this thank
you, you all disprove the notion that druggies and drug law reformers are
somehow less human than non-druggies. If anything, this latest exchange
has
only cemented it for me, that people who tend to support reforming drug
laws
and honestly address drug use/abuse from a harm reduction perspective are
really much nicer people than the average cog types. I honestly believe
the
Earth is a better place than it would have been without you all here, and
that my life is that much richer for having the chance to exchange points
of
view and know you all in some way or other.

Brett wrote >ruling out those who shouldn’t
be getting ibogaine in the first place and following
procedures will do far more.<

What does this mean? Who shouldn’t be getting ibogaine? Do you mean for
physical reasons?

Brett also wrote >As for
your intestines, I don’t know of anything that would
contraindicate it from what you said. What is the
damage? Any circulation issues? I believe you had that
for cancer, Marc has it listed as a contra-indication
on his site but you would have to ask him why/where he
got that from<

I got about 9 feet of small intestine removed, and I’m not sure how much
of
my large intestines removed after a car accident as a teenager. “Half my
intestines” is sort of an exaggeration, but only slightly. I’m not sure
what
you mean by “circulation issues.” I’ve not had cancer, but do have some
trouble with scar tissues seemingly interfering with normal digestion. And
yes, I do take milk thistle, but not as regularly as I should I imagine.

Again, thanks to all who took time to respond to my notes. I only wish I
could more eloquently express my gratitude and clearly explain how helpful
just knowing there are others out there who are concerned about my well
being is to my mental health. And a special thanks to Allison for the
invite
to share mountain air and lake side with her and her partner. I am
dreaming
of a trip to Canada, (and with Marc’s description of some sessions, it
seems
to me that I don’t really want to do it at home- not to mention that
legality thing) but due to absolute lack of funding at the moment, (and
not
actually having filled out an application for ITH so don’t know if I even
qualify yet) itsa gonna have to wait a little while I think. Until I
figure
out what I want and can do, and how I want to do it, I’m going to have to
maintain here for at least a little while longer.
Hopefully, a number of you will be here in NYC for the ibogaine
conference.
Peace all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical
action

Another one from me (Allison).  Have just been reading about people on the
list with health problems, a lot of it bones, muscles, and operations.
Wayne, my partner has had 2 operations on his spine, disc fusions and then
after finally starting to recover from them broke his ankle and it just
will
not heal.  He seems to think it has a lot to do with drug use and the lack
of calcium in his bones because of years of morphine and heroin use plus
years of methadone which has also affected his teeth and caused rot and
dental problems.    Would that be correct or what.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:05 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action

Hi Preston,

We have treateed many patients with Hepatitus C with no adverse affects.
Sandra, our health screener, has an enzyme threshold that determines the
safety of the procedure, so far we have had no problems with those we’ve
treated.

Our most recent patient was a very high volume user of heroin, woman, 29
years old. Her very heavy iboga experience, with full on two movie
screens
under her eyelids (her description) lasted 96 hours. Consider that. 96
hours
of a patient seeming to speak in tongues, her brains apparently
scrambled,
not eating anything and drinking little. Non stop visualization.

She did not come back to our world here lucidly until about hour 102 or
so.

So if you want a person with no experience to sit beside you while you
go
for days without eating, drinking, babbling what appears to be
undecipherable, hallucinating….

You need a person to watch you or monitor you 24 hours a day while you
are
‘out there’. They should know what to do if you fall unconscious, which
has
happened to an older patient (59 years old with many medical problems).
We
took him to the nearby hospital. His electrolyte level dropped. We
learned
from that. Now they get Gatorade throughout the recovery. He was fine.

The minimum ‘out there’ time is about 20 hours, averaging about 24
hours,
but is much longer if the patient is very polluted by drugs and the
dosage
I
give is in the high end range. I gave the young woman cited about 5,000
mg
(5 grams) of Indra Iboga Extract, she weighed only 115 pounds, it was a
very
high dose but she was a very big daily user of heroin. She was
completely
detoxed when she emerged from the experience after about 101 hours after
administration. That her brains seemed scrambled even in the fourth day
concerned me but she later had quite an interesting explanation for it
(“I
was resisting the ibogaine so I couldn’t make my thoughts heard. Once I
gave
in to the iboga, everything was in sync.”)  She had many revelatory
comments
though in the first 8 hours I monitored her, like ‘ I have made so many
bad
decisions in my life…’ and ‘ I keep seeing over and over trivial parts
of
my life that aren’t important’. The last one makes me smile. Eliana (who
is
on this list serve) had exactly the same comments during her intense but
very lucidly narrated visualizations. But later they take on substantial
meaning in the post-visualization period.

If there is anything else you would like to know about our experience at
Iboga Therapy House, just ask.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you
drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly
reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned
lack
of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where
Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session?
(btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it
woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the
purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant
distration
of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who
does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with
some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there.
Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as
preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you
drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking
believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet
pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck
that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying
to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being
able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone
on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills,
like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script,
and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22,
2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in
the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering
to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against
cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying
their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the
government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana
rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael
High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its
underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 24, 2003 at 9:32:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Allison wrote >He seems to think it has a lot to do with drug use and the
lack
of calcium in his bones because of years of morphine and heroin use plus
years of methadone which has also affected his teeth and caused rot and
dental problems.    Would that be correct or what. <

Just speaking from personal experience, my teeth were fine until I began
methadone – then many of them seemed to all surrender at once. Don’t know if
the two are related, but I’ve heard this before, that there is a connection,
and I think we’ve discussed it here in the past but can’t remember what was
decided.
To everyone who took the time to respond to my questions and
frustrations, thanks very, very much. Marc, Howard, Allison, Brett, Bill,
Sara, Marcus, Patrick, and anyone else who I may have missed in this thank
you, you all disprove the notion that druggies and drug law reformers are
somehow less human than non-druggies. If anything, this latest exchange has
only cemented it for me, that people who tend to support reforming drug laws
and honestly address drug use/abuse from a harm reduction perspective are
really much nicer people than the average cog types. I honestly believe the
Earth is a better place than it would have been without you all here, and
that my life is that much richer for having the chance to exchange points of
view and know you all in some way or other.

Brett wrote >ruling out those who shouldn’t
be getting ibogaine in the first place and following
procedures will do far more.<

What does this mean? Who shouldn’t be getting ibogaine? Do you mean for
physical reasons?

Brett also wrote >As for
your intestines, I don’t know of anything that would
contraindicate it from what you said. What is the
damage? Any circulation issues? I believe you had that
for cancer, Marc has it listed as a contra-indication
on his site but you would have to ask him why/where he
got that from<

I got about 9 feet of small intestine removed, and I’m not sure how much of
my large intestines removed after a car accident as a teenager. “Half my
intestines” is sort of an exaggeration, but only slightly. I’m not sure what
you mean by “circulation issues.” I’ve not had cancer, but do have some
trouble with scar tissues seemingly interfering with normal digestion. And
yes, I do take milk thistle, but not as regularly as I should I imagine.

Again, thanks to all who took time to respond to my notes. I only wish I
could more eloquently express my gratitude and clearly explain how helpful
just knowing there are others out there who are concerned about my well
being is to my mental health. And a special thanks to Allison for the invite
to share mountain air and lake side with her and her partner. I am dreaming
of a trip to Canada, (and with Marc’s description of some sessions, it seems
to me that I don’t really want to do it at home- not to mention that
legality thing) but due to absolute lack of funding at the moment, (and not
actually having filled out an application for ITH so don’t know if I even
qualify yet) itsa gonna have to wait a little while I think. Until I figure
out what I want and can do, and how I want to do it, I’m going to have to
maintain here for at least a little while longer.
Hopefully, a number of you will be here in NYC for the ibogaine
conference.
Peace all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical
action

Another one from me (Allison).  Have just been reading about people on the
list with health problems, a lot of it bones, muscles, and operations.
Wayne, my partner has had 2 operations on his spine, disc fusions and then
after finally starting to recover from them broke his ankle and it just will
not heal.  He seems to think it has a lot to do with drug use and the lack
of calcium in his bones because of years of morphine and heroin use plus
years of methadone which has also affected his teeth and caused rot and
dental problems.    Would that be correct or what.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:05 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action

Hi Preston,

We have treateed many patients with Hepatitus C with no adverse affects.
Sandra, our health screener, has an enzyme threshold that determines the
safety of the procedure, so far we have had no problems with those we’ve
treated.

Our most recent patient was a very high volume user of heroin, woman, 29
years old. Her very heavy iboga experience, with full on two movie screens
under her eyelids (her description) lasted 96 hours. Consider that. 96
hours
of a patient seeming to speak in tongues, her brains apparently scrambled,
not eating anything and drinking little. Non stop visualization.

She did not come back to our world here lucidly until about hour 102 or
so.

So if you want a person with no experience to sit beside you while you go
for days without eating, drinking, babbling what appears to be
undecipherable, hallucinating….

You need a person to watch you or monitor you 24 hours a day while you are
‘out there’. They should know what to do if you fall unconscious, which
has
happened to an older patient (59 years old with many medical problems). We
took him to the nearby hospital. His electrolyte level dropped. We learned
from that. Now they get Gatorade throughout the recovery. He was fine.

The minimum ‘out there’ time is about 20 hours, averaging about 24 hours,
but is much longer if the patient is very polluted by drugs and the dosage
I
give is in the high end range. I gave the young woman cited about 5,000 mg
(5 grams) of Indra Iboga Extract, she weighed only 115 pounds, it was a
very
high dose but she was a very big daily user of heroin. She was completely
detoxed when she emerged from the experience after about 101 hours after
administration. That her brains seemed scrambled even in the fourth day
concerned me but she later had quite an interesting explanation for it (“I
was resisting the ibogaine so I couldn’t make my thoughts heard. Once I
gave
in to the iboga, everything was in sync.”)  She had many revelatory
comments
though in the first 8 hours I monitored her, like ‘ I have made so many
bad
decisions in my life…’ and ‘ I keep seeing over and over trivial parts
of
my life that aren’t important’. The last one makes me smile. Eliana (who
is
on this list serve) had exactly the same comments during her intense but
very lucidly narrated visualizations. But later they take on substantial
meaning in the post-visualization period.

If there is anything else you would like to know about our experience at
Iboga Therapy House, just ask.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned lack
of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where
Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it
woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distration
of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who
does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with
some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there.
Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 24, 2003 at 7:53:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Another one from me (Allison).  Have just been reading about people on the
list with health problems, a lot of it bones, muscles, and operations.
Wayne, my partner has had 2 operations on his spine, disc fusions and then
after finally starting to recover from them broke his ankle and it just will
not heal.  He seems to think it has a lot to do with drug use and the lack
of calcium in his bones because of years of morphine and heroin use plus
years of methadone which has also affected his teeth and caused rot and
dental problems.    Would that be correct or what.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:05 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action

Hi Preston,

We have treateed many patients with Hepatitus C with no adverse affects.
Sandra, our health screener, has an enzyme threshold that determines the
safety of the procedure, so far we have had no problems with those we’ve
treated.

Our most recent patient was a very high volume user of heroin, woman, 29
years old. Her very heavy iboga experience, with full on two movie screens
under her eyelids (her description) lasted 96 hours. Consider that. 96
hours
of a patient seeming to speak in tongues, her brains apparently scrambled,
not eating anything and drinking little. Non stop visualization.

She did not come back to our world here lucidly until about hour 102 or
so.

So if you want a person with no experience to sit beside you while you go
for days without eating, drinking, babbling what appears to be
undecipherable, hallucinating….

You need a person to watch you or monitor you 24 hours a day while you are
‘out there’. They should know what to do if you fall unconscious, which
has
happened to an older patient (59 years old with many medical problems). We
took him to the nearby hospital. His electrolyte level dropped. We learned
from that. Now they get Gatorade throughout the recovery. He was fine.

The minimum ‘out there’ time is about 20 hours, averaging about 24 hours,
but is much longer if the patient is very polluted by drugs and the dosage
I
give is in the high end range. I gave the young woman cited about 5,000 mg
(5 grams) of Indra Iboga Extract, she weighed only 115 pounds, it was a
very
high dose but she was a very big daily user of heroin. She was completely
detoxed when she emerged from the experience after about 101 hours after
administration. That her brains seemed scrambled even in the fourth day
concerned me but she later had quite an interesting explanation for it (“I
was resisting the ibogaine so I couldn’t make my thoughts heard. Once I
gave
in to the iboga, everything was in sync.”)  She had many revelatory
comments
though in the first 8 hours I monitored her, like ‘ I have made so many
bad
decisions in my life…’ and ‘ I keep seeing over and over trivial parts
of
my life that aren’t important’. The last one makes me smile. Eliana (who
is
on this list serve) had exactly the same comments during her intense but
very lucidly narrated visualizations. But later they take on substantial
meaning in the post-visualization period.

If there is anything else you would like to know about our experience at
Iboga Therapy House, just ask.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned lack
of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where
Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it
woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distration
of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who
does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with
some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there.
Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 24, 2003 at 7:32:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Question for Marc and anyone else out there.  When we use morphine and
Heroin we don’t dream, or I don’t think we do.  When we stop and come off we
start dreaming at night again.  I’ve noticed that at first the dreams are
scary and we often wake up calling out.  After a few months we dream lots
and lots and often wake up laughing and talking in our sleep.  Both myself
and my partner Wayne have picked up on that.  Is that a normal progression
to coming off opoids or what.  Does anyone know or have similar experiences.
..I would like to hear from anyone else who has an experience or opinion or
explanation.  Thanks Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “MARC” <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 8:05 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action

Hi Preston,

We have treateed many patients with Hepatitus C with no adverse affects.
Sandra, our health screener, has an enzyme threshold that determines the
safety of the procedure, so far we have had no problems with those we’ve
treated.

Our most recent patient was a very high volume user of heroin, woman, 29
years old. Her very heavy iboga experience, with full on two movie screens
under her eyelids (her description) lasted 96 hours. Consider that. 96
hours
of a patient seeming to speak in tongues, her brains apparently scrambled,
not eating anything and drinking little. Non stop visualization.

She did not come back to our world here lucidly until about hour 102 or
so.

So if you want a person with no experience to sit beside you while you go
for days without eating, drinking, babbling what appears to be
undecipherable, hallucinating….

You need a person to watch you or monitor you 24 hours a day while you are
‘out there’. They should know what to do if you fall unconscious, which
has
happened to an older patient (59 years old with many medical problems). We
took him to the nearby hospital. His electrolyte level dropped. We learned
from that. Now they get Gatorade throughout the recovery. He was fine.

The minimum ‘out there’ time is about 20 hours, averaging about 24 hours,
but is much longer if the patient is very polluted by drugs and the dosage
I
give is in the high end range. I gave the young woman cited about 5,000 mg
(5 grams) of Indra Iboga Extract, she weighed only 115 pounds, it was a
very
high dose but she was a very big daily user of heroin. She was completely
detoxed when she emerged from the experience after about 101 hours after
administration. That her brains seemed scrambled even in the fourth day
concerned me but she later had quite an interesting explanation for it (“I
was resisting the ibogaine so I couldn’t make my thoughts heard. Once I
gave
in to the iboga, everything was in sync.”)  She had many revelatory
comments
though in the first 8 hours I monitored her, like ‘ I have made so many
bad
decisions in my life…’ and ‘ I keep seeing over and over trivial parts
of
my life that aren’t important’. The last one makes me smile. Eliana (who
is
on this list serve) had exactly the same comments during her intense but
very lucidly narrated visualizations. But later they take on substantial
meaning in the post-visualization period.

If there is anything else you would like to know about our experience at
Iboga Therapy House, just ask.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned lack
of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where
Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it
woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distration
of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who
does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with
some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there.
Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 24, 2003 at 7:24:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck Preston.  I don’t know about the Ibogaine and Hep C.  Both my
partner and I have Hep C and muddle through although tired a lot and need to
look after ourselves, diet etc. and cut down on the alcohol or preferably
not use any at all.  Sounds like you have been through the mill.  I wish you
could come out here and just spend time cruising, looking at the mountains,
the lake, walking with no-one else around.  Its so good for the soul and
peace inside yourself.  I also take Prozac but when I get down I just take
myself and the dog down to the lake and wander and remind myself how lucky
we are to live in such a neat place.  I know that probably sounds daft but
it makes a difference.  Let me know if you ever want to come over this way.
My friend a few years ago looked after me when I went through withdrawal.
She cooked me a meal every day, let me sleep and take lots of showers,
provided a video library for at night when I couldn’t sleep and it worked so
good.  I would be more than happy to do it for someone else with the same
problems.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned lack of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distration of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there. Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………
Date: April 24, 2003 at 7:15:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My partner and I have never yet met a doctor that knew as much about
addiction as us and most of the time they keep asking questions to learn
(thats the ones that are even interested).  Sometimes I think they are more
curious than anything and they seem to have so much trouble getting their
heads around the whole thing.  I asked my Doctor about hepatitis C.  It took
him 3 yrs to find out that I had it and that was why I was so tired, never
thought to check my partner till I asked and then found out he was positive
too,  suprise, suprise.  Then after all that he didn’t know bugger all and
when I got info from one of the drug clinics he asked me if I would mind
passing it on to him.  I thought that a huge joke.
Anyways, shows what your up against even with the basics so no wonder a lot
of people lose faith.   Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………

Don’t forget that many medical doctors are addicted to drug ,
And also many psychiatrist. It isn’t a secret that there is a high rate
Of suicide in that group.

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: donderdag 24 april 2003 3:05
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical
attention………

I think alot of the docs have posted here before. The one ibogaine guy
from Brazil posted medical advice a couple of times in the past. Patrick
and Dr. Pablo had some cyp2d6 conversation, the doc from Mexico posted.
The addictiondoc who sees Mash’s patients and talks to the Star posted.

I think the reason they end up here is because if you do a search for
heroin on any search engine, you land on heroin times in the top 10 hits
because they have every issue online. Then in every issue for something
like 2 years are Patrick’s columns, then he had some fight about what
he was getting paid and stopped writing for them but they keep
reprinting
his articles in every issue that comes and they keep reprinting Howard.
So every issue of heroin times has had at least 2 ibogaine articles in
it for the last year nearly. Every one of them links to mindvox. Heroin
times is I think not a very good magazine and most of all sells a lot
of ads to people so when the people paying for the ads keep seeing
ibogaine
they end up here.

If any of them ever did say anything then it is what Howard said bro,
they are responsible for it. What do you expect to hear anyway? All
anyone here will do is tell them what idiots they are and how they don’t
know anything about ibogaine or addiction and mostly they’d be right
🙂

I don’t care much for treatment pimps. Like I said before I didn’t get
better until I got away from addiction treatment all together.

I dont know if its good or bad but I think mostly the people on this
list do not really make anybody involved in the medical profession
comfortable
because nobody here will shut up and do as they’re told.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:34:01 -0700 paul jackamo
<pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tara wrote >

“I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this
mailing
list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause
and
knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical

questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or
whatever.”

Patrick wrote>(re:mindvox list)

“It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every
6 months
or so.Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,

PhD’s,
people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has
ever
written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.”

It kinda answers your question doesnt it tara.Its the detached clinical

“gaze” all over, god forbid some (but not all) doctors would ever
abandon
their spurious claims to objectivity and get their hands dirty by
actually
posting anything on here.

It aint about “good” or “bad” doctors,just as it aint about “good”
or “bad”
methadone clinics.(which is kinda like talking about good or bad
prisons IMO
– we are still trapped in the maze, however we carve it up)

Its about the matrix of power and knowledge (see foucault “birth
of the
clinic” for the full scoop) that arose out of the enlightenment
and how we
collude with these experts/professionals as disseminators of knowledge
and
diagnosis.(did someone mention the witchtrials…1000’s of years
of unbroken
knowledge of gnostic herblore up in smoke, driven deep underground
or
appropriated by the good male doctors of the emerging industrial
paradigm)

Its almost subliminal: how the validity of data/information depends
on WHO
is doing the speaking and how we carve up reality into arbitary
binary
oppositions of subjective/objective, professional/lay person,
doctor/patient.

Of course, loadsa cool work is getting done ala mash and the free
university
in holland, etc : but this is because of the people involved and
not the
structural nature of the medico-scientific matrix.

Most doctors distrust junkies (including a lot of so-called addiction

specialists) unless the junkies happen to be rats. -dont expect
fairness,empathy and impartial info as a matter of course.

Anecdote (yawn) >i kicked a ten year methadone habit with my first
ibo dose.
Two days later, i walked into my clinic here in england, grabbed
my
methadone,gave it away and informed the doctor i was no longer needing
his
services > you could see the power and control he had invested in
our
“relationship” (control over dose/pick-up/urine testing,etc) just
fade out >
it was one of the most satisfying moments of my life…;-)

This is no disrespect to you tara > just me getting years of resentment
out
of my system (perhaps some of the good doctors on this list could
offer a
clinical diagnosis on what are obviously deep issues of resentment
and
alienation towards those in authority)

paul.

“we are in this world, but not of this world.”

_________________________________________________________________
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From: “Byron” <Byron@unseenhand.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 24, 2003 at 2:25:05 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul Jackamo very funny, wow you must be a graduate, in fucking
idiocity,,,,,
If you have no input as to help people here then fuck off.

I would like to know the same answer,,, I would like off this list and
hate the mail. I have been signed up to this mail group by somebody else
as a joke,
The reason was that I would receive a million mails that say nothing.

SO HOW DO WE GET THE FUCK OFF THIS LIST, DOES IT COME DOWN TO REPORTING
YOUR GROUP TO ICANN OR THE DNS THAT HELPS PROVIDE THIS.? OR IS IT A
COMBINATION OF THE TWO?

—–Original Message—–
From: paul jackamo [mailto:pauljackamo@hotmail.com]
Sent: 23 April 2003 21:38
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?

YOU DONT > THIS IS FOR ALL ETERNITY

From: “A. Moore” <27andy@msn.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:18:10 -0700

_________________________________________________________________
Surf together with new Shared Browsing
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=105
9

From: “Byron” <Byron@unseenhand.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 24, 2003 at 2:23:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would like to know the same answer,,, I would like off this list and hate the mail. I have been signed up to this mail group by somebody else as a joke,
The reason was that I would receive a million mails that say nothing.

SO HOW DO WE GET THE FUCK OFF THIS LIST, DOES IT COME DOWN TO REPORTING YOUR GROUP TO ICANN OR THE DNS THAT HELPS PROVIDE THIS.? OR IS IT A COMBINATION OF THE TWO?

—–Original Message—–
From: A. Moore [mailto:27andy@msn.com] 
Sent: 23 April 2003 21:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?

From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………
Date: April 24, 2003 at 12:49:31 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t forget that many medical doctors are addicted to drug ,
And also many psychiatrist. It isn’t a secret that there is a high rate
Of suicide in that group.

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: donderdag 24 april 2003 3:05
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical
attention………

I think alot of the docs have posted here before. The one ibogaine guy
from Brazil posted medical advice a couple of times in the past. Patrick
and Dr. Pablo had some cyp2d6 conversation, the doc from Mexico posted.
The addictiondoc who sees Mash’s patients and talks to the Star posted.

I think the reason they end up here is because if you do a search for
heroin on any search engine, you land on heroin times in the top 10 hits
because they have every issue online. Then in every issue for something
like 2 years are Patrick’s columns, then he had some fight about what
he was getting paid and stopped writing for them but they keep
reprinting
his articles in every issue that comes and they keep reprinting Howard.
So every issue of heroin times has had at least 2 ibogaine articles in
it for the last year nearly. Every one of them links to mindvox. Heroin
times is I think not a very good magazine and most of all sells a lot
of ads to people so when the people paying for the ads keep seeing
ibogaine
they end up here.

If any of them ever did say anything then it is what Howard said bro,
they are responsible for it. What do you expect to hear anyway? All
anyone here will do is tell them what idiots they are and how they don’t
know anything about ibogaine or addiction and mostly they’d be right
🙂

I don’t care much for treatment pimps. Like I said before I didn’t get
better until I got away from addiction treatment all together.

I dont know if its good or bad but I think mostly the people on this
list do not really make anybody involved in the medical profession
comfortable
because nobody here will shut up and do as they’re told.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:34:01 -0700 paul jackamo
<pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tara wrote >

“I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this
mailing
list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause
and
knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical

questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or
whatever.”

Patrick wrote>(re:mindvox list)

“It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every
6 months
or so.Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,

PhD’s,
people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has
ever
written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.”

It kinda answers your question doesnt it tara.Its the detached clinical

“gaze” all over, god forbid some (but not all) doctors would ever
abandon
their spurious claims to objectivity and get their hands dirty by
actually
posting anything on here.

It aint about “good” or “bad” doctors,just as it aint about “good”
or “bad”
methadone clinics.(which is kinda like talking about good or bad
prisons IMO
– we are still trapped in the maze, however we carve it up)

Its about the matrix of power and knowledge (see foucault “birth
of the
clinic” for the full scoop) that arose out of the enlightenment
and how we
collude with these experts/professionals as disseminators of knowledge
and
diagnosis.(did someone mention the witchtrials…1000’s of years
of unbroken
knowledge of gnostic herblore up in smoke, driven deep underground
or
appropriated by the good male doctors of the emerging industrial
paradigm)

Its almost subliminal: how the validity of data/information depends
on WHO
is doing the speaking and how we carve up reality into arbitary
binary
oppositions of subjective/objective, professional/lay person,
doctor/patient.

Of course, loadsa cool work is getting done ala mash and the free
university
in holland, etc : but this is because of the people involved and
not the
structural nature of the medico-scientific matrix.

Most doctors distrust junkies (including a lot of so-called addiction

specialists) unless the junkies happen to be rats. -dont expect
fairness,empathy and impartial info as a matter of course.

Anecdote (yawn) >i kicked a ten year methadone habit with my first
ibo dose.
Two days later, i walked into my clinic here in england, grabbed
my
methadone,gave it away and informed the doctor i was no longer needing
his
services > you could see the power and control he had invested in
our
“relationship” (control over dose/pick-up/urine testing,etc) just
fade out >
it was one of the most satisfying moments of my life…;-)

This is no disrespect to you tara > just me getting years of resentment
out
of my system (perhaps some of the good doctors on this list could
offer a
clinical diagnosis on what are obviously deep issues of resentment
and
alienation towards those in authority)

paul.

“we are in this world, but not of this world.”

_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: i need medical attention………
Date: April 23, 2003 at 10:35:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Curtis >

I think i shot my mouth off without thinking. my experiences are generally negative (“we are taught at medical school, to not believe a single word you addicts say” – a direct quote from an english doctor to me!) and its good to here that some doctors were/are willing to offer advice/etc on mindvox- i forget that in america, getting sued for liability is a big concern (thanks howard)

so i can understand the reluctance.

my mail wasnt a cry for the medical matrix to get on board – it just kinda pissed me off – patricks comments that a lot of md’s etc are subscribed but dont post -its the same kind of detached clinical gaze that precludes any empathy with their “patients” (im generalising here i know)- my paranoid fantasy of them dissecting,analysing,scrutinising (medicine as part of the arsenal of surviellance and control) our lives.
in phuture, i will check the archieves before posting 😉

paul.

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 18:05:09 -0700

I think alot of the docs have posted here before. The one ibogaine guy
from Brazil posted medical advice a couple of times in the past. Patrick
and Dr. Pablo had some cyp2d6 conversation, the doc from Mexico posted.
The addictiondoc who sees Mash’s patients and talks to the Star posted.

I think the reason they end up here is because if you do a search for
heroin on any search engine, you land on heroin times in the top 10 hits
because they have every issue online. Then in every issue for something
like 2 years are Patrick’s columns, then he had some fight about what
he was getting paid and stopped writing for them but they keep reprinting
his articles in every issue that comes and they keep reprinting Howard.
So every issue of heroin times has had at least 2 ibogaine articles in
it for the last year nearly. Every one of them links to mindvox. Heroin
times is I think not a very good magazine and most of all sells a lot
of ads to people so when the people paying for the ads keep seeing ibogaine
they end up here.

If any of them ever did say anything then it is what Howard said bro,
they are responsible for it. What do you expect to hear anyway? All
anyone here will do is tell them what idiots they are and how they don’t
know anything about ibogaine or addiction and mostly they’d be right
🙂

I don’t care much for treatment pimps. Like I said before I didn’t get
better until I got away from addiction treatment all together.

I dont know if its good or bad but I think mostly the people on this
list do not really make anybody involved in the medical profession comfortable
because nobody here will shut up and do as they’re told.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:34:01 -0700 paul jackamo <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Tara wrote >
>
>”I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this
>mailing
>list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause
>and
>knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical
>>
>questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or
>whatever.”
>
>Patrick wrote>(re:mindvox list)
>
>”It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every
>6 months
>or so.Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,

> PhD’s,
>people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has
>ever
>written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.”
>
>It kinda answers your question doesnt it tara.Its the detached clinical
>>
>”gaze” all over, god forbid some (but not all) doctors would ever
>abandon
>their spurious claims to objectivity and get their hands dirty by
>actually
>posting anything on here.
>
>It aint about “good” or “bad” doctors,just as it aint about “good”
>or “bad”
>methadone clinics.(which is kinda like talking about good or bad
>prisons IMO
>- we are still trapped in the maze, however we carve it up)
>
>Its about the matrix of power and knowledge (see foucault “birth
>of the
>clinic” for the full scoop) that arose out of the enlightenment
>and how we
>collude with these experts/professionals as disseminators of knowledge
>and
>diagnosis.(did someone mention the witchtrials…1000’s of years
>of unbroken
>knowledge of gnostic herblore up in smoke, driven deep underground
>or
>appropriated by the good male doctors of the emerging industrial
>paradigm)
>
>Its almost subliminal: how the validity of data/information depends
>on WHO
>is doing the speaking and how we carve up reality into arbitary
>binary
>oppositions of subjective/objective, professional/lay person,
>doctor/patient.
>
>Of course, loadsa cool work is getting done ala mash and the free
>university
>in holland, etc : but this is because of the people involved and
>not the
>structural nature of the medico-scientific matrix.
>
>Most doctors distrust junkies (including a lot of so-called addiction
>>
>specialists) unless the junkies happen to be rats. -dont expect
>fairness,empathy and impartial info as a matter of course.
>
>
>Anecdote (yawn) >i kicked a ten year methadone habit with my first
>ibo dose.
>Two days later, i walked into my clinic here in england, grabbed
>my
>methadone,gave it away and informed the doctor i was no longer needing
>his
>services > you could see the power and control he had invested in
>our
>”relationship” (control over dose/pick-up/urine testing,etc) just
>fade out >
>it was one of the most satisfying moments of my life…;-)
>
>This is no disrespect to you tara > just me getting years of resentment
>out
>of my system (perhaps some of the good doctors on this list could
>offer a
>clinical diagnosis on what are obviously deep issues of resentment
>and
>alienation towards those in authority)
>
>paul.
>
>”we are in this world, but not of this world.”
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile
>
>
>
>
>

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: amon
Date: April 23, 2003 at 9:10:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s exactly it bro. Very well said! 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 23 Apr 2003 00:08:30 -0700 paul jackamo <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
wrote:

amom > you do smack – you want to stop : this list can at the very
least
provide you with some keys to unlock doors beyond your present self.

(if freedom from addiction is what you desire)

i know from personal experience that repeating the “victim” tape
loop kept
me locked into the addiction cycle of low self esteem and learned

helplessness, for far longer than was necessary.

i dont play those sounds anymore…..

take care.

paul.

ps> if ya dont want to post, at least stay orbiting around the black
hole of
the silent majority <joke>

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 9:09:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do not worry bro, I think we are all fucked up. The more smart the people
here, the more fucked up they are (no offense Patrick 🙂 I don’t think
it makes any difference. Everyone here is good people in their different
ways and has a lot of advice to say about what they did to get clean
or what they’re trying to do.

Stick around and feel free to post when you’re high. Why not? I dont
think we ever thought up any rules. Did we?

Peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:56:14 -0700 AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
I apologize for my last post. I  won’t ever post on
this list again. I am obviously not ready to be a part
of your group yet. I am fucked up yes, but not
intelligent as the rest of this list, i do smack, i
wanna stop, but i dont think i \m smart ass y0ou guuys,
when i get there il be back.
i wont flood you  noi more,.

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………
Date: April 23, 2003 at 9:05:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think alot of the docs have posted here before. The one ibogaine guy
from Brazil posted medical advice a couple of times in the past. Patrick
and Dr. Pablo had some cyp2d6 conversation, the doc from Mexico posted.
The addictiondoc who sees Mash’s patients and talks to the Star posted.

I think the reason they end up here is because if you do a search for
heroin on any search engine, you land on heroin times in the top 10 hits
because they have every issue online. Then in every issue for something
like 2 years are Patrick’s columns, then he had some fight about what
he was getting paid and stopped writing for them but they keep reprinting
his articles in every issue that comes and they keep reprinting Howard.
So every issue of heroin times has had at least 2 ibogaine articles in
it for the last year nearly. Every one of them links to mindvox. Heroin
times is I think not a very good magazine and most of all sells a lot
of ads to people so when the people paying for the ads keep seeing ibogaine
they end up here.

If any of them ever did say anything then it is what Howard said bro,
they are responsible for it. What do you expect to hear anyway? All
anyone here will do is tell them what idiots they are and how they don’t
know anything about ibogaine or addiction and mostly they’d be right
🙂

I don’t care much for treatment pimps. Like I said before I didn’t get
better until I got away from addiction treatment all together.

I dont know if its good or bad but I think mostly the people on this
list do not really make anybody involved in the medical profession comfortable
because nobody here will shut up and do as they’re told.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:34:01 -0700 paul jackamo <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Tara wrote >

“I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this
mailing
list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause
and
knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical

questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or
whatever.”

Patrick wrote>(re:mindvox list)

“It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every
6 months
or so.Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,

PhD’s,
people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has
ever
written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.”

It kinda answers your question doesnt it tara.Its the detached clinical

“gaze” all over, god forbid some (but not all) doctors would ever
abandon
their spurious claims to objectivity and get their hands dirty by
actually
posting anything on here.

It aint about “good” or “bad” doctors,just as it aint about “good”
or “bad”
methadone clinics.(which is kinda like talking about good or bad
prisons IMO
– we are still trapped in the maze, however we carve it up)

Its about the matrix of power and knowledge (see foucault “birth
of the
clinic” for the full scoop) that arose out of the enlightenment
and how we
collude with these experts/professionals as disseminators of knowledge
and
diagnosis.(did someone mention the witchtrials…1000’s of years
of unbroken
knowledge of gnostic herblore up in smoke, driven deep underground
or
appropriated by the good male doctors of the emerging industrial
paradigm)

Its almost subliminal: how the validity of data/information depends
on WHO
is doing the speaking and how we carve up reality into arbitary
binary
oppositions of subjective/objective, professional/lay person,
doctor/patient.

Of course, loadsa cool work is getting done ala mash and the free
university
in holland, etc : but this is because of the people involved and
not the
structural nature of the medico-scientific matrix.

Most doctors distrust junkies (including a lot of so-called addiction

specialists) unless the junkies happen to be rats. -dont expect
fairness,empathy and impartial info as a matter of course.

Anecdote (yawn) >i kicked a ten year methadone habit with my first
ibo dose.
Two days later, i walked into my clinic here in england, grabbed
my
methadone,gave it away and informed the doctor i was no longer needing
his
services > you could see the power and control he had invested in
our
“relationship” (control over dose/pick-up/urine testing,etc) just
fade out >
it was one of the most satisfying moments of my life…;-)

This is no disrespect to you tara > just me getting years of resentment
out
of my system (perhaps some of the good doctors on this list could
offer a
clinical diagnosis on what are obviously deep issues of resentment
and
alienation towards those in authority)

paul.

“we are in this world, but not of this world.”

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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Our experience with HEP C, the sitter, medical action
Date: April 23, 2003 at 4:05:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

We have treateed many patients with Hepatitus C with no adverse affects.
Sandra, our health screener, has an enzyme threshold that determines the
safety of the procedure, so far we have had no problems with those we’ve
treated.

Our most recent patient was a very high volume user of heroin, woman, 29
years old. Her very heavy iboga experience, with full on two movie screens
under her eyelids (her description) lasted 96 hours. Consider that. 96 hours
of a patient seeming to speak in tongues, her brains apparently scrambled,
not eating anything and drinking little. Non stop visualization.

She did not come back to our world here lucidly until about hour 102 or so.

So if you want a person with no experience to sit beside you while you go
for days without eating, drinking, babbling what appears to be
undecipherable, hallucinating….

You need a person to watch you or monitor you 24 hours a day while you are
‘out there’. They should know what to do if you fall unconscious, which has
happened to an older patient (59 years old with many medical problems). We
took him to the nearby hospital. His electrolyte level dropped. We learned
from that. Now they get Gatorade throughout the recovery. He was fine.

The minimum ‘out there’ time is about 20 hours, averaging about 24 hours,
but is much longer if the patient is very polluted by drugs and the dosage I
give is in the high end range. I gave the young woman cited about 5,000 mg
(5 grams) of Indra Iboga Extract, she weighed only 115 pounds, it was a very
high dose but she was a very big daily user of heroin. She was completely
detoxed when she emerged from the experience after about 101 hours after
administration. That her brains seemed scrambled even in the fourth day
concerned me but she later had quite an interesting explanation for it (“I
was resisting the ibogaine so I couldn’t make my thoughts heard. Once I gave
in to the iboga, everything was in sync.”)  She had many revelatory comments
though in the first 8 hours I monitored her, like ‘ I have made so many bad
decisions in my life…’ and ‘ I keep seeing over and over trivial parts of
my life that aren’t important’. The last one makes me smile. Eliana (who is
on this list serve) had exactly the same comments during her intense but
very lucidly narrated visualizations. But later they take on substantial
meaning in the post-visualization period.

If there is anything else you would like to know about our experience at
Iboga Therapy House, just ask.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly reminding
me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned lack of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who
shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose
of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distration of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and
others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there. Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 2:49:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who here has Hep C, and also
tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is
for that? I spoke to

Generally there is no altered course of action unless
there is indication of disease damage and then only if
liver enzymes are above 2X normal. Better, how is your
liver and do you already take milk thistle, if not
start now?

someone the other day about this who pointed out
that most people who shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve
been cases where Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what
sort of precautions need
to be taken in these cases, if any.

Follow standard protocol (see
ibogaine.org/manual.html), get a physical, EKG, liver
enzymes are included in blood chemistry (ie sma-20)
and address any current health issues… If your liver
emzymes are above 2X normal what you do (IMO) depends
on how much above/bad it is and how much you want to
do ibo, there are some options.

Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an
ibogaine session? (btw,

I loved Howards answer(s), right on! Sit, watch,
worry, maybe call someone if they are concerned. It
would be a good idea to have the # of a guide or two
if you are inexperienced. The patient should be
expected to do nothing, be helpless, rest and
recouperate for several days. Having taken ibo makes
it much easier to be a guide – to get into the groove
(not that some aren’t good). A small dose of ibo, (say
20mg of HCL or a hundred mg of Indra – not too
much…) can help the guide during the session.

watching that Staten Island Project tape, it
appeared to me that it woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be
questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly

Me too! Basically I think other than peeking in, leave
them alone unless they want to talk, move, drink, go
to the bathroom, they puked on themselves and need a
quick clean-up… Sometimes the patient wants to
connect during the ibo session, have a loved one lie
next to them, lie/sit there and chat… (FYI, be
warned, ibogaine can get a womans chatter-box working,
if you are a male guide this can cause brain damage
unless you have mastered the art of nodding, saying
yes, smiling while thinking about totally unrelated
things – thankfully most men can do this and survive
but it is painful)  What you don’t want is to be (too)
alone on ibo, so even some destraction by peeking in
is welcome.

detrimental to the purpose of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the

Along those lines.

constant distration of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous
as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply
be a loved one who does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion

Most ibogaine is done in a non-medical environment,
following medical protocol and procedures will go a
long way toward safty. Quick story. I do understand
some added feeling of safty IF something should happen
it would be nice to be in a hospital (duh) and have
medical staff… By far, screening patients, protocol,
procedure… will do the most to having a safe
ibogaine treatment. PROBLEM, hospital or not, if you
take ibogaine and have a severe reaction, this is very
bad. The day before yesterday (the story part) I
walked into the clinic at the VA to see someone on the
floor with someone else next to him (a doctor). Long
story short, I did CPR and had a heart beat but no
breathing when I turned him over to the local
PROFESSIONALS that are suppose to know this stuff
(they practice… it is not a clinic where they would
see this often). The guy died, they could have reacted
better and didn’t, not saying it is their fault he
died, just that they could have done
better/faster/been smoother… Unless someone really
knows what the fuck they are doing and is watching you
closely it might not be adding that much more safty to
be in a hospital. IMO, ruling out those who shouldn’t
be getting ibogaine in the first place and following
procedures will do far more. SO, get yourself checked
and go from there. Once when I was working in an
Emergency Room I noticed the Epinephrin (that sits
there for people in anaphalactic shock, a life
threatening event) used for emergencies was not loaded
with epinephrin, would you believe it was loaded with
Ketamine! Now, IF someone suddenly turned up allergic
to say Ibogaine, run him to the ER, and you wacked him
with a load of Ketamine, not good, hospitals/doctors
make mistakes… That is one of the reasons for a test
dose as well as some benedryl on hand.

on this one, with some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private
home-like setting, and others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or
other is there. Thanks

It doesn’t matter, unless it does. The thing with
getting away from home for an active addict being
treated with ibogaine is different than say me or you.
YOu don’t have a few bags stashed around the house
that you are going to do… You don’t have all those
sights/sounds/smells/karma/bones in the attic… you
need to get away from to stop using. This is better
done away from home, away from everything, away from
family usually – a fresh block of clay to be molded,
not molded back into their environment. WOuld it be
nice for you to get away, sure, just not as important
as it is for active addicts in general – all IMVHO of
course. A private home setting  is OK for addicts, so
long as it is someone elses home and destraction free
-ie a someone elses home with guide(s) and addict, and
no-one else. The setting should be able to be quiet,
comfortable, darkened and secure with no destractions,
a bedroom or some place the initiate can go lie down
alone and not where the guide has to be right there
100% of the time.

As for your injuries, I have had some similar with the
leg (my knee to hip rod was removed) from a fracture,
have sciaticia also, had blood clots in the left leg
(to the hip), a spinal cord injury and surgery, a few
other things, a bad disk, some nerve damage also…
that stuff I am not too concerned about, ibo never
made it worse for me, always better or no effect. I
sometimes have severe headaches, taking ibogaine with
a migraine is not something you want to do. As for
your intestines, I don’t know of anything that would
contraindicate it from what you said. What is the
damage? Any circulation issues? I believe you had that
for cancer, Marc has it listed as a contra-indication
on his site but you would have to ask him why/where he
got that from

for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you
can get your
system working  without stopping your pain
medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you canīt stand the pain
and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you
eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then
you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing
with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur,
unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and
getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for
that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing
leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because
I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk
to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working
up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for
for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I
can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor
about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor
about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time
I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that
Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain
and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m
thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other
medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what
the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to
suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING
prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to
vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor
this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this
morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want
to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana
(April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue
the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana
in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue
brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April
22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number
associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement
with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first
crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard
to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of
Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at
Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the
legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of
Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past
years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate
marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in
London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple
sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April
22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new
front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to
a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April
22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on
Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and
profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in
Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested
yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half
of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the
authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to
Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and
compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the
detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has
wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical
marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal
cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental
Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to
continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp
activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above
Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of
American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars
to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back
to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However,
their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on
the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the
potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look
at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the
pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did.
Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special
election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend
marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner
concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris
Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese
calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless
watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds
working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most
elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated
at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen
pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20,
2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the
‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to
commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban
Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed
much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer
systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid
to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these
systems to account for
its
funds.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 23, 2003 at 2:37:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YOU DONT > THIS IS FOR ALL ETERNITY

From: “A. Moore” <27andy@msn.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 11:18:10 -0700

_________________________________________________________________
Surf together with new Shared Browsing http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059

From: “A. Moore” <27andy@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] how do I UN-SUBSCRIBE?
Date: April 23, 2003 at 2:18:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 12:18:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— sara <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you
can get your
system working  without stopping your pain
medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you canīt stand the pain
and not as preventive

That is pretty much what I do. Pain is a daily event
but trying to control it with narcotics messes with my
own ability to fight pain. Is it FUN, FUCK NO!!!!! I
am in pain most of the time but the OUCH part doesn’t
HURT as bad, doesn’t GET to me – if that makes any
sense. When I do have to take narcotics (for the worst
pain) they work pretty well. Note that after getting
hit with severe pain for a few days I might have to
take more pain meds, after that I will generally hurt
more for a while (depends on how much/how long I took
meds for), couple days, couple of weeks if I was on a
run. The answer is NOT to take more pain meds(after)
but let my body adjust back. A lot of it is awareness
of the bodies (mine in particular) response to pain
and pain meds over a long period of time, not just
reacting to the pain.  And yes, lifestyle, yoga also
helps, movement helps, look-up phenylalanine and pain,
it seems to help me a bit. Mostly I don’t look for a
PILL, I look for the 5% better by doing this, 2%
better by doing that, or not doing something.  There
is no easy answer that I have found, I am hardly
“happy” with the answers and options before me. All I
know is the panic about the pain is all but gone,
there are almost no head games, I don’t take enough
for it to alter me – and believe me even days after I
am altered by meds (and very aware of it). That said
if I were to consider a large quantity of narcotics it
would be to go on maintenance therapy – ie oxy,
ms-contin, levo (don’t work for me), methadone (which
I would not take but it is used) with some extra for
the bad days. I would not “chase” the pain with PRN
meds in large amounts, it is diminishing returns. The
more I used the less they worked, more I needed, the
more I took the crankier I got (altered)…

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you
eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then
you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing
with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur,
unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and
getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for
that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing
leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because
I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk
to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working
up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for
for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I
can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor
about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor
about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time
I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that
Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain
and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m
thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other
medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what
the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to
suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING
prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to
vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor
this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this
morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want
to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana
(April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue
the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana
in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue
brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April
22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number
associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement
with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first
crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard
to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of
Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at
Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the
legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of
Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past
years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate
marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in
London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple
sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April
22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new
front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to
a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April
22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on
Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and
profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in
Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested
yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half
of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the
authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to
Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and
compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the
detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has
wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical
marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal
cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental
Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to
continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp
activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above
Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of
American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars
to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back
to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However,
their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on
the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the
potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look
at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the
pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did.
Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special
election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend
marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner
concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris
Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese
calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless
watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds
working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most
elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated
at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen
pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20,
2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the
‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to
commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban
Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed
much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer
systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid
to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these
systems to account for
its
funds.”

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 12:00:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/23/03 8:42:04 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Preston,

I will try to answer your questions.

on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions
need to be taken in these cases, if any.

Patients in Panama were among patients with HCV who were treated with
ibogaine.  These persons generally had normal liver enzyme levels and no
special precautions were taken and no adverse events were noted that could be
attributed to HCV or at least none were indicated by medical staff evaluating
the patients.  Patients who were treated by Dutch or International Addict
Self-Help were among HCV patients.  No adverse events and no special
precautions.  However, good hydration with ibogaine is recommended.  Good
hydration is even recommended without ibogaine.  Depending on venue this can
mean drinking fluids to IV hydration.

However, in your communications you indicate additional medical conditions,
“Living with half my intestines, a rod from my hip to my knee from a
shattered femur, unending psiatic (sp?) nerve troubles, serious back and
abdominal pain,” and there, I cannot give you information.   I am certain you
will not receive medical comment on this matter although Patrick indicates
doctors on this list as any medical comment would have an attached liability
to it for the doctor.

Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose
of the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distraction
of the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there. Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.

Marc had prior experience with ibogaine and agreed to the videotaping in
advance of his treatment and as anyone who watched the tape can see it is
difficult to have any form of prolonged conversation.  Some people find it
both difficult and intrusive to even have short conversations while others
can handle brief and I do mean brief responses to determine what dreamlike
visions they are seeing.  This usually involves some brief training during
which the subject is told not to think about what they are seeing but, to
immediately describe the images.  Most patients/subjects don’t want to have
such conversations even if they say they do prior to the experience.
However, others can handle the question, “What are you seeing” and provide an
immediate response, “I am flying over a city.”  With subjects who were
willing and able I would ask the question every five minutes during the
primary dreamlike activity period.  The benefits are that the subject and
treatment group were then provided with an understanding of images most of
which the patient would have forgotten by the end of the ibogaine experience
and the treatment group would have never known existed.  If Stan Glick in
18-MC has a non-halliucinogen form of ibogaine-like molecule and it mimics
ibogaine’s effects in human subjects that will provide interesting data on
the value of the images seen during the ibogaine experience as it may related
to chemical dependence or not.  This matter is covered briefly in my chapter
from vol 56 of the Alkaloids, “Case Studies of Ibogaine Treatments:
Implications for Patient Management Stragegies”.  The book is also available
as a paperback version “Ibogaine: Proceedings of the first International
Conference” from Amazon.com and anyone serious about ibogaine should get a
copy.

As for who does the sitting, it comes down to a matter of who is taking
responsibility and liability for the patient/subject/initiate.
Ibogaine/iboga therapies have been performed from the forests of Africa to
modern hospitals.  If nothings goes wrong one venue is as good as another.
If there is a medical event (that means emergency to everyone outside of the
practice of medicine) than I would prefer to be in a hospital setting.  That
being said, I do not believe any of the ibogaine therapies are currently
being carried out in hospitals so what can I tell you.  In the 60s all
treatments were in apartments.  In the Netherlands all treatments carried out
by any of the providers were in hotel rooms or apartments.  Today, in Africa
we are still looking at initiations in the forests and villages and cities
with chapel members and not doctors present.

What does a sitter do?  They worry that you are OK.  They are kind and ask if
you want water or food and help you to the toilet if/when you are ataxic.
They offer conversation and discussion if andand when you want it and in an
emergency they can call emergency medical services.

Any comments by providers or patients to these matters are appreciated.

Howard

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 8:33:04 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,<

LOL, Sara,
You sound remarkably like my girlfriend, who is constantly reminding me
to eat healthier.
Eating for me can also be a problem due to that aforementioned lack of
some intestines.
on another topic, Who here has Hep C, and also tried ibogaine? Can
anyone tell me what the usual course of action is for that? I spoke to
someone the other day about this who pointed out that most people who shoot
drugs have Hep C nowadays, so I imagine there’ve been cases where Ibogaine
was given, but I’d like to know for sure, and what sort of precautions need
to be taken in these cases, if any.
Also, what’s the role of a sitter during an ibogaine session? (btw,
watching that Staten Island Project tape, it appeared to me that it woulda
been slightly irritating for that guy Marc to be questioned every half
hour/hour during his experience, and possibly detrimental to the purpose of
the taking of ibogaine to begin with, what with the constant distration of
the off-camera questioner) Is ibogaine so dangerous as to absolutely
necessitate pro-medical watching, or can it simply be a loved one who does
the sitting? I know there’s a difference of opinion on this one, with some
saying it shouldn’t ever be done in a private home-like setting, and others
saying that it doesn’t matter so long as someone or other is there. Thanks
for any thoughts anyone might want to voice/write.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: sara
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 3:15 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: May 3, 2003 at 6:19:00 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t put yourself down so much.  There is a reason for everything.  A lot
of people on this list are very intelligent and know all sorts of stuff.
For the rest of us its a learning experience picking up on their info and
knowledge, at least what most of us understand.  Personally I’ve gone back
to trying to study cos I reckon I’ve pickled what brains I had being out of
it too much on opiates etc.  It’s taken ages but am actually starting to
feel healthy these days so don’t give up.  We are all different but probably
have a comon purpose as in giving the drugs away.  Thats why most of us are
here.  Good luck and best wishes.  You know what they say.  Where there is a
will there is a way.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2003 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today

I apologize for my last post. I  won’t ever post on
this list again. I am obviously not ready to be a part
of your group yet. I am fucked up yes, but not
intelligent as the rest of this list, i do smack, i
wanna stop, but i dont think i \m smart ass y0ou guuys,
when i get there il be back.
i wont flood you  noi more,.

Actually Marcus and all,
That’s pretty much what I did only vocally instead
of printing this out,
and she decided I knew what I was talking about.
Amazingly, she came through
for me today, after having refused in the past to take
me more seriously.
Thanks all for the supportive words, again, and for
bearing with my
bitching.
Peace all.
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Aktionman22@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today

In a message dated 4/22/03 12:48:23 PM,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<

HI all,

You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with
half my intestines, a

rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur,
unending psiatic (sp?)

nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and
getting the very

minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for
that pain, that never

ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing
leaping off my fucking

roof day from the pain day before yesterday because
I’m
out of medication,

and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to
my doctor about

increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up
the nerve to do just

that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly
useless 2 milligram

dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for
that matter, asking

her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I
can’t fucking believe

that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor
about getting adequet

pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled
to adequet pain

relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor
about my fucking junky

past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I
asked for her to

increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that
Preston.” Fuck that, if

she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to

live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain
and not being able to

afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on the

ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m
thousands and thousands

and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other
medical bills, like

rebuilding my freakin mouth.

I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what
the fuck to do. >>

preston……send this part of your email to your
doctor. she might get w
what your goin thru. its well put & to the point.
good luck
marcus

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: “sara” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 3:15:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi preston ,

If you believe that  Alternative remedies works ,you  can get your
system working  without stopping your pain medication at first ,
You take dilaudid only if you can´t stand the pain and not as preventive

For pain , your lifestyle is very important what you eat what you drink
and how much, if you take care of that first then you may not need to
increase your pain medication,

Be well ,

Sara

—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: dinsdag 22 april 2003 13:02
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my
intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic
(sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that
never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my
fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of
medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do
just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2
milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter,
asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting
adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking
junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that,
if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able
to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on
the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and
thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I
do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and
I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning,
PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got
another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal
government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they
said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana
use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of
marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park
(April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has
drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now
experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war
against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new
product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific
coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22,
2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22,
2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients
in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22,
2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled
with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars
(April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is
failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war,
scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind
the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally
on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace
Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly
what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US
taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to
Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres
who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and
even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was
unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on
the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years
later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal
contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for
its
funds.”

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: amon
Date: April 23, 2003 at 3:08:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 22:56:14 -0700 (PDT)

I apologize for my last post. I  won’t ever post on
this list again. I am obviously not ready to be a part
of your group yet. I am fucked up yes, but not
intelligent as the rest of this list, i do smack, i
wanna stop, but i dont think i \m smart ass y0ou guuys,
when i get there il be back.
i wont flood you  noi more,.

amom > you do smack – you want to stop : this list can at the very least provide you with some keys to unlock doors beyond your present self.

(if freedom from addiction is what you desire)

i know from personal experience that repeating the “victim” tape loop kept me locked into the addiction cycle of low self esteem and learned helplessness, for far longer than was necessary.

i dont play those sounds anymore…..

take care.

paul.

ps> if ya dont want to post, at least stay orbiting around the black hole of the silent majority <joke>

pps> and you live in canada,want to get clean, are interested in ibogaine and mentioned marc emery….mmm….see any signposts…

_________________________________________________________________
Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 1:56:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I apologize for my last post. I  won’t ever post on
this list again. I am obviously not ready to be a part
of your group yet. I am fucked up yes, but not
intelligent as the rest of this list, i do smack, i
wanna stop, but i dont think i \m smart ass y0ou guuys,
when i get there il be back.
i wont flood you  noi more,.

Actually Marcus and all,
That’s pretty much what I did only vocally instead
of printing this out,
and she decided I knew what I was talking about.
Amazingly, she came through
for me today, after having refused in the past to take
me more seriously.
Thanks all for the supportive words, again, and for
bearing with my
bitching.
Peace all.
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Aktionman22@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today

In a message dated 4/22/03 12:48:23 PM,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<

HI all,

You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with
half my intestines, a

rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur,
unending psiatic (sp?)

nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and
getting the very

minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for
that pain, that never

ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing
leaping off my fucking

roof day from the pain day before yesterday because
I’m
out of medication,

and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to
my doctor about

increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up
the nerve to do just

that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly
useless 2 milligram

dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for
that matter, asking

her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I
can’t fucking believe

that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor
about getting adequet

pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled
to adequet pain

relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor
about my fucking junky

past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I
asked for her to

increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that
Preston.” Fuck that, if

she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to

live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain
and not being able to

afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on the

ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m
thousands and thousands

and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other
medical bills, like

rebuilding my freakin mouth.

I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what
the fuck to do. >>

preston……send this part of your email to your
doctor. she might get w
what your goin thru. its well put & to the point.
good luck
marcus

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 23, 2003 at 1:40:06 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tonight at a bar i meet a ggirl from surrey end
she was with her girlfrend from same p-lace.
aat a bar oinn nva scotia . Before i said anything she
told me about a gut nemd mark emery, whon helps
aaddicts.
after reding scrip[ptxt like the ones from preston, in
diont know if im even quaalifuies to write on this
lidst, PRESON, you have bveen thru ,more tham  meee, i
wanyt  to tell  u that rrevebn tho  you hur6t i  aan
fukked

Actually Marcus and all,
That’s pretty much what I did only vocally instead
of printing this out,
and she decided I knew what I was talking about.
Amazingly, she came through
for me today, after having refused in the past to take
me more seriously.
Thanks all for the supportive words, again, and for
bearing with my
bitching.
Peace all.
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Aktionman22@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today

In a message dated 4/22/03 12:48:23 PM,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<

HI all,

You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with
half my intestines, a

rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur,
unending psiatic (sp?)

nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and
getting the very

minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for
that pain, that never

ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing
leaping off my fucking

roof day from the pain day before yesterday because
I’m
out of medication,

and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to
my doctor about

increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up
the nerve to do just

that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly
useless 2 milligram

dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for
that matter, asking

her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I
can’t fucking believe

that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor
about getting adequet

pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled
to adequet pain

relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor
about my fucking junky

past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I
asked for her to

increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that
Preston.” Fuck that, if

she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to

live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain
and not being able to

afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on the

ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m
thousands and thousands

and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other
medical bills, like

rebuilding my freakin mouth.

I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what
the fuck to do. >>

preston……send this part of your email to your
doctor. she might get w
what your goin thru. its well put & to the point.
good luck
marcus

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine and methadone
Date: April 22, 2003 at 5:55:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A PowerPoint presentation of “Methadone and Ibogaine: A Historical Comparison
of Patient Status and Advocacy Issues” is now available for download from
<http://www.doraweiner.org/aatod.html>.  Just scroll down the page and click
on the link with the title of the presentation.

I am also including an excellent set of notes provided by Andrew Byrne, a
psychiatrist from Australia of the recent American Association for the
treatment of Opioid Dependence conference.

Howard
***********
Dear Colleague,

I have taken the liberty of sending you my notes on this conference.  I
will not send further addiction summaries unless requested.

American Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence.
“Integrating Evidence-Based Practices Within Opioid Treatment”

National Conference: Sun 13th to Wed 16th April 2003.

I was privileged to attend the AATOD conference in the
Renaissance Washington DC Hotel along with many of our field’s
eclipsing luminaries.  Over 1000 health workers came from all over
the US and overseas.  Much was said in the formal lectures and
workshops, but face-to-face meetings with long-time, long-distance
colleagues, in some cases for the first time, was a unique pleasure.

On the Saturday there were pre-conference courses on
buprenorphine prescribing in office based practice and another for
‘methadone advocates’ (NAMA).  On the Sunday afternoon, two
further parallel ‘strands’ took place, one for local policy folk, the
other involving overseas researchers and clinicians.  The latter
described experiences in a variety of settings in Switzerland, Italy,
Israel, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Slovakia and Slovenia.  Two additional
American collaborations included talks of neonatal abstinence
syndrome (Dr Loretta Finnegan) and high dose methadone
prescribing (Dr M. Shinderman).  The Canadians and Europeans at
the meeting added a much needed bredth of experience.  This
conference which was pervaded by reaction to the uniquely
American antagonism to logical drug policies.  This includes
regulations preventing doctors from treating their dependent
patients in accordance with long-standing concordant research,
mostly performed in this country.

On Monday morning we were addressed by Association President
Mark Parrino, Washington D.C. Mayor Williams, D.C. Health
Director James Buford, DEA Diversion Administrator Laura Nagel
and SAMSA Officer Charles Curie.  Surveys showed that 7% of
Americans interviewed had used an illicit drug in the previous
month and it was estimated that 16,000,000 were regular drug
users.  Surprisingly, this was not used as evidence that current
policies fail to protect US families against drug problems.  We
were, however, reminded that ‘treatment works’, despite common
mythology to the contrary.  The virtues and proven benefits of
intensive psychosocial supports for maintenance patients were
extolled.  The speakers quoted from the few good studies which
confirm scientifically what Hippocrates described over 2000 years
ago (additional services improve medical outcomes).

Parrino and his knowledgeable presenters dwelt on the ‘crucial’ role
of these psychosocial supports.  Indeed, as with diabetes and other
conditions, such services can significantly improve numerous
treatment outcome measures.  But we know that even with minimal
services, dependent folk can attain positive results in many or even
most cases.  Nobody would suggest denying such services if they
were available, but equally, to deny methadone or other medication
in adequate supervised doses, because of a lack of counselors,
funding, real estate, etc, would be unacceptable in other fields.  The
latest moves on buprenorphine prescribing may redress some of the
calcification in US policies which continue to deny simple and
effective treatments to most American addicts who cannot
realistically advocate on their own behalves.

The morning workshops included ‘ethnic considerations’, smoking
cessation, ‘harm reduction’ integration, office based prescribing and
benzo abuse.  It was disappointing to me that the conference
organisers did not have more practising clinicians among the 14
plenary speakers, most of whom were administrators.

I attended a workshop on a needle exchange information initiative
in New York City’s Bronx, given by Dr Jennifer McNeely of the
Albert Einstein Medical School.  She pointed out just how difficult
it was to get simple practical information to patients.  She had to
deal with various levels of administration just to be able to pass on
the contact details of 3 Bronx pharmacies selling clean needles and
syringes under the new Sate legislation.  It would seem that a
graffito on the washroom door with the phone contacts would have
had the same effect.  However, by going through the correct
channels, McNeely has wisely ensured that in other states with
similar waivers clinics will now be able to do the same thing, thus
reducing viral transmission and ultimately saving lives.  This in turn
may reduce the hysteria in this country over issues such as needle
availability.  ‘Harm reduction’ and needle services were under the
conference heading of “hot topics”.  This is intriguing since each is
just so uncontroversial as to be official government policy in
numerous other countries.

In the Q&A session, I mentioned some details of the Sydney
medically supervised injecting center where 69,000 injecting
episodes occurred over 2 years with no deaths or other significant
problems.  One clinic manager from Pennsylvania said that she
cannot even get minor changes to her clinic approved and was very
pessimistic about a syringe program opening in her state.  And a
legal injecting room seemed light years away.

Other workshops covered cardiac rhythms in opioid users, Federal
Regulation, counselors eduction, ‘recovery’, addiction nursing,
residential care and community transfers.  Another was
“Administrative Withdrawal: Ethics, Implementation, and
Alternatives”.  Apparently in Massechusetts currently there are
dozens of patients experiencing this indignity for reasons I could
not comprehend when this country seems to have such an
abundance of resources.

Next we had an interesting session on the introduction of
buprenorphine into practice in the US.  Dr Laura McNicholas gave
a brief overview of the pharmacology and therapeutics, then Dr
David Feillin related a number of trials of the sub-lingual
combination drug including naloxone.  Most of these trials involved
supervised administration of the drug as distinct from the current
waiver arrangements to dispense up to a month’s supply at a time
without supervision.  Also, most of the extensive bupreorphine
literature has been performed with pure buprenorphine, yet the
recommendation is for American physicians to use mainly the
combination product with naloxone.  The claims that this is safe
and effective in both treatment and avoiding diversion are not based
on much scientific evidence.  This shows that the drug can be
abused by novice or occasional users and further, that the naloxone
is absorbed to about 10% and has some clinical effects such as
pupil changes.  In the Q&A session mention was made of a twelve
month Swedish/American study which compared buprenorphine
maintenance with detox.  The detox group had near zero retention
rates at 12 months and worryingly, 20% of the subjects had died.
One must question the ethics of giving a virtual placebo treatment
to half of such trial cases without some formal safety net.

On the Tuesday morning there were 4 papers delivered at the first
plenary session.  Before introducing Marc Gourevitch of the Bronx
in New York City, Andrea Barthwell alluded to a concept I have
always avoided: “conquering addiction”.  The term “brain disease”
was also used in the plenaries, reflecting official policy edicts from
the 1990s.  The problem is that if drug addiction is a brain disease,
then about 90% of us have it!  I feel on safer ground calling drug
dependency a ‘condition’.  Then, like dandruff, pregnancy, obesity
or baldness, it is the sufferers who can decide if and when it
becomes a ‘disease’ (and there were numerous user representatives
present at the meeting).  Dr Gourevitch spoke modestly and
authoritatively about co-existing disorders in dependent patients.

Dr Leonard Seeff was ill and at short notice Dr Larry Brown spoke
well on the difficult subject of HIV in dependent patients.  Dr
George Woody then dealt with non drug related symptoms in
dependent patients.  He quoted DSM IV and even later definitions
of the various presentations (mentioning that the DSM V was due
out in 2010!).  Symptoms from a number of pre-treatment surveys
found high rates of anxiety, phobic disorders, ASPD, auditory
hallucinations, etc.  We were also told that just as drug users suffer
from a wide variety of psychiatric disorders, equally, up to 50% of
mental patients can present with co-existing substance abuse
problems.  When the primary condition is treated the other
symptoms will resolve spontaneously in a proportion of cases.  We
were told that two weeks was a good interval in new methadone
patients to reassess such problems which may need specific
interventions such as antidepressants.  It would appear that MMT
can improve depression, anxiety and in some cases paranoid
symptoms.  It has long been known that opioids have some anti-
psychotic properties.

Regarding hepatitis and HIV infections, “prevention is better than
cure” is an old maxim which was apparently NOT emphasised.
Needle availability was an unpardonable omission in these
plenaries. It is disappointing when respected scientific experts fail
to say what needs to be said.  Needle availability prevents viral
disease transmission and does NOT encourage drug use.  Several
US states have introduced ‘waivers’ against the bans on pharmacies
selling injecting equipment (see workshop above).

After the morning plenaries there were workshops on a variety of
issues: dual diagnosis, homelessness, pregnant patients.  In a well
attended session, Dr Peter DeMaria spoke about ‘Optimizing
methadone doses’.  He used a number of case histories to show that
dose manipulation, splitting, increases, etc can turn around a
‘failure’ in treatment.  One case history was a MMT patient who
had used heroin continuously for 12 months in treatment while on
120mg daily.  While it was helpful to examine the methadone level
and a dose increase, it might also be questioned why the patient
was treated for twelve months in this clearly unstable state, and all
the attendant risks (but better late than never!).

DeMaria also took us back to the basic pharmacology of
methadone to explain withdrawal symptoms with a helpful graph of
methadone levels over 48 hours and thus two doses.  He reminded
us of the words of Sir William Osler: “Listen to the patient, he’s
telling you what’s wrong with him”.  [I seem to recall that Osler
continued: “… and if you listen hard enough he may also tell you
the treatment”].

DeMaria stated that daily doses of 80 to 120mg are adequate for
about three quarters of patients, but that others, some with aberrant
metabolism need extra, split doses or alternative drug or non-drug
treatments.  Drug interactions were covered in detail, including
phenytoin, fluvoxamine, antiretrovirals (three of them only), anti-fit
meds etc.  It was gratifying that the hall was packed with attentive
clinicians from all over the US since one major consistent finding of
surveys of clinics is inadequate dose levels across the board (this
also occurs in Australia, Great Britain and elsewhere).  Then we
had mention of the stereoisomers of methadone and cytochrome
metabolism … rather too complex and speculative for us front-line
workers perhaps, unlike the rest of this practical presentation.

Another session, by researcher and editorialist Stewart Leavitt, was
entitled “Can Addiction Research be Trusted?”  He helped us with
just how to assess the clinical significance of particular studies from
the anecdotal (‘n=1’) to RCT to the hallowed ‘metanalysis’.  But he
warned that some such studies may be “gigo” (garbage in, garbage
out) since overall conclusions are only as reliable as the data they
are based on.  Leavitt also gave us a timely lesson on the two
common ways of interpreting studies over time (1) ITT or
‘intention to treat’ and (2) PP ‘per protocol’ (analysis of only those
who finish the intervention).  Both have pros and cons depending
on the proportion of drop outs.  He introduced the terms “PLUS-
cebo” (for positive effects) and “NOCI-bo” (harm causing) for the
more usual term for ‘dummy’ treatments which do often have
apparent effects in trial subjects.

Leavitt then shattered the illusion of the “Farmington consensus”
(which may not be a ‘consensus’ at all) that all research associated
with ‘inappropriate’ sponsorship should be rejected for publication.
This ban, largely aimed at tobacco and alcohol sponsorship, could
also be levelled at drug companies, health authorities, policing
interest, drug cartels, etc.  Dr Leavitt pointed out that all research
is biased by the nature of the authors, their background, ethnicity,
funding, etc.  Thus it is the reader who should look at what is
disclosed regarding possibly conflicts of interest, who is
writing/funding the research and then decide for themselves its
‘rigour’ and/or relevance for their practices.  ‘Publication bias’ was
also covered in which studies which have positive outcomes are
more likely to be completed and published.  Laura McNicholas MD
from Philadelphia VA questioned some details from the floor
concerning research samples – which were clarified.  Extensive
references and comprehensive handouts were given on a number of
clinical and ethical matters of interest and the declaration that
Leavitt’s service is sponsored by a manufacturer of methadone and
naltrexone.

The Tuesday evening dinner included 13 awards in honour of
Vincent P. Dole and Marie Nyswander who together pioneered
methadone treatment.  While I have no objection to credit being
recognised when it is due, Washington DC is hardly the place for
accolades over drug treatment or policy in the centre of these
continuing epidemics (addition, HIV, hepatitis C).  Hence to avoid
any ill feeling, I avoided this part of the proceedings and retired
back to my lodgings early to gather my thoughts.  It had been a
marvellous three days meeting up with dozens of colleagues from
all over the US as well as further afield.

I have great admiration for all these dedicated and hard working
front-line professionals, some of whom operate in situations of
poor funding, dangerous work environments and limited scope for
professional advancement.  Even simple advocacy can be hazardous
in America.  But one remains in hope of improvements, and that
conferences like this might seed some such positive moves.

The above is not intended to be a comprehensive summary of the
conference which also had 22 diverse poster displays and many
other workshops, plenaries and ’round table’ discussions I could not
get to.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne,
Medical Practitioner, Drug and Alcohol,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 22, 2003 at 5:18:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/22/03 12:48:23 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<

HI all,

You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my intestines, a

rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic (sp?)

nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very

minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that never

ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my fucking

roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of medication,

and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about

increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do just

that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2 milligram

dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter, asking

her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe

that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting adequet

pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain

relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking junky

past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to

increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that, if

she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to

live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able to

afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on the

ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and thousands

and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like

rebuilding my freakin mouth.

I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. >>

preston……send this part of your email to your doctor. she might get w
what your goin thru. its well put & to the point.
good luck
marcus

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 22, 2003 at 7:01:41 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic (sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2 milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter, asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that, if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning, PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park (April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22, 2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22, 2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22, 2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars (April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war, scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for its
funds.”

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] test
Date: April 22, 2003 at 7:43:04 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this is a test and happy earth day.

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 22, 2003 at 2:10:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

fwiw
I sincerely wish you the best of luck preston

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:01 AM
Subject: links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with
half my intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur,
unending psiatic (sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and
getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for
that pain, that never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing
leaping off my fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because
I’m
out of medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to
my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up
the nerve to do just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost
utterly
useless 2 milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for
that matter, asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I
can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor
about getting adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are
entitled
to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor
about my fucking junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I
asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that
Preston.” Fuck that, if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how
uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain
and not being able to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain
specialist as someone on the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m
thousands and thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other
medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what
the fuck to do. I do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to
suppliment my script, and I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING
prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to
vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor
this morning, PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this
morning. I’ve got another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want
to
cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at
http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana
(April
22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue
the
federal government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in
a
lawsuit they said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue
brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April
22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number
associated
with marijuana use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement
with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first
crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard
to
grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of
Marijuana
(April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at
Farrand
Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the
legalization of marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of
Albuquerque park (April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years,
the park has drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate
marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London
are now experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple
sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April
22,
2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line
in the US war against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a
deadly new product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22,
2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on
Mexico’s Pacific coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and
profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana
Case (April 22, 2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday
after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of
marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the
authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana
Bill (April 22, 2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and
compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the
detriment of patients in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has
wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical
marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases
against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental
Damage (April 22, 2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to
continue
justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp
activists mingled with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above
Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of
American
tax dollars (April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to
give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back
to
the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their
approach is failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the
drug war, scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential
benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at
the whys behind the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the
pro-marijuana rally on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did.
Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special
election to replace Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend
marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner
concealed it…Exactly what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya
buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese
calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless
watste of US taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds
working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..:
According to Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated
at
San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen
pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal
smoke day,’ and even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to
commemorate
its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban
Development (HUD) was unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much
of the blame on the
federal agency’s financial-management computer
systems.
Four years later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to
federal contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these
systems
to account for its
funds.”

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: “Jayson T.” <ink_freak@msn.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Please revove me from your mailing list
Date: April 22, 2003 at 2:02:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is too much email for me on a daily basis. Thank you!

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Local Officials Rise Up to Defy The Patriot Act
Date: May 2, 2003 at 6:07:06 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The proposed addendum to the Patriot Act, which the Justice Department has
insisted is only a draft of ideas, would enlarge many of the controversial
provisions in the first Patriot Act. It would give the government authority
to wiretap an individual and collect a person’s DNA without court orders,
detain people in secret and revoke citizenship, among other powers.

The paragraph above sounds more like a country under dictatorship rather
than USA>  Personally I find that horrifying, especially when the American
army are currently trying to establish what they call democracy in Iraq.
There is far too much arrogance in the American leaders in my opinion.
Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 3:05 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Local Officials Rise Up to Defy The Patriot Act

Local Officials Rise Up to Defy The Patriot Act

Arcata, Calif., City Council member David Meserve drafted an ordinance
requiring town officials not to comply with the federal Patriot Act. (Kim
Komenich — San Francisco Chronicle)

By Evelyn Nieves
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, April 21, 2003; Page A01
ARCATA, Calif. — This North Coast city may look sweet — old,
low-to-the-ground buildings, town square with a bronze statue of William
McKinley, ambling pickup trucks — but it acts like a radical.
Arcata was one of the first cities to pass resolutions against global
warming
and a unilateral war in Iraq. Last month, it joined the rising chorus of
municipalities to pass a resolution urging local law enforcement officials
and others contacted by federal officials to refuse requests under the
Patriot Act that they believe violate an individual’s civil rights under
the
Constitution. Then, the city went a step further.
This little city (pop.: 16,000) has become the first in the nation to pass
an
ordinance that outlaws voluntary compliance with the Patriot Act.
“I call this a nonviolent, preemptive attack,” said David Meserve, the
freshman City Council member who drafted the ordinance with the help of
the
Arcata city attorney, city manager and police chief.
The Arcata ordinance may be the first, but it may not be the last. Across
the
country, citizens have been forming Bill of Rights defense committees to
fight what they consider the most egregious curbs on liberties contained
in
the Patriot Act. The 342-page act, passed by Congress one month after the
Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, with little input from a public still
in
shock, has been most publicly criticized by librarians and bookstore
owners
for the provisions that force them to secretly hand over information about
a
patron’s reading and Internet habits. But citizens groups are becoming
increasingly organized and forceful in rebuking the Patriot Act and the
Homeland Security Act for giving the federal government too much power,
especially since a draft of the Justice Department’s proposed sequel to
the
Patriot Act (dubbed Patriot II) was publicly leaked in January.
Both the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Act, which created the
Cabinet-level department, follow the Constitution, says Justice Department
spokesman Mark Corallo. Federal law trumps local law in any case, which
would
mean Arcata would be in for a fight — a fight it wants — if the feds did
make a Patriot Act request. LaRae Quy, a spokeswoman for the San Francisco
FBI office, whose jurisdiction includes Arcata, said that the agency has
no
plans to use the Patriot Act in Arcata any time soon, but added that
people
misunderstood it. Although some people feel their privacy rights are being
infringed upon, she said, the agency still has to show “probable cause for
any actions we take.”
But to date, 89 cities have passed resolutions condemning the Patriot Act,
with at least a dozen more in the works and a statewide resolution against
the act close to being passed in Hawaii.
“We want the local police to do what they were meant to do — protect
their
citizens,” said Nancy Talanian, co-director of the Bill of Rights Defense
Committee in Florence, Mass., which gives advice to citizens groups on how
to
draft their own resolution.
Although cities across the country passed antiwar resolutions before the
att
ack on Iraq with little notice from the administration, Talanian said that
the anti-Patriot Act resolutions are “not quite as symbolic” as those that
passed against the war.
“Normally, the president and Congress don’t pay that much attention when
it
comes to waging war,” she said. “But in the case of the Patriot Act, the
federal government can’t really tell municipalities that you have to do
the
work that the INS or the FBI wants you to do. The city can say, ‘No, I’m
sorry. We hire our police to protect our citizens and we don’t want our
citizens pulled aside and thrown in jail without probable cause.’ ”
In Hawaii, home to many Japanese Americans who vividly recall the Japanese
internments during World War II, Democratic state Rep. Roy Takumi
introduced
a resolution on the Patriot Act as a way to raise debate, he said.
Although
the resolution may be seen as symbolic, he said, “states have every right
to
consider the concerns of the federal government and voice our opinions. If
a
number of states begin to pass similar resolutions, then it raises the bar
for Congress, making them realize our concerns. I hope to see what we’ve
done
here plays a role in mobilizing people to take action.”
Lawmakers and lobbyists on both ends of the political spectrum are
beginning
to sound more alarms about the antiterrorism act, which gave the
government
unprecedented powers to spy on citizens. Rep. Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.) has
introduced a bill, the “Freedom to Read Protection Act” (H.R. 1157), that
would restore the privacy protections for library book borrowers and
bookstore purchases. The bill has 73 co-sponsors.
Earlier this month, Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.), the chairman
of
the House Judiciary Committee, and Rep. John Conyers Jr. (Mich.), the
ranking
Democrat, asked the Justice Department for more information on the
government’s use of the Patriot Act to track terrorists, questioning what
“tangible things” the government can subpoena in investigations of U.S.
citizens.
Sensenbrenner and Conyers sent an 18-page letter to Attorney General John
D.
Ashcroft, challenging the department’s increased use of “national security
letters” requiring businesses to hand over electronic records on finances,
telephone calls, e-mails and other personal data.
They questioned the guidelines under which investigators can subpoena
private
books, records, papers, documents and other items; asked whether the
investigations targeted only people identified as agents of a foreign
power;
and asked the attorney general to “identify the specific authority relied
on
for issuing these letters.”
The Justice Department said it is working on the request.
But citizens groups, worried about a timid Congress, are not waiting for
their elected officials to act before launching a campaign against the
proposed sequel to the Patriot Act, the “Domestic Security Enhancement
Act.”
The Idaho Green Party has begun the Paul Revere Project to stop Patriot
Act
II before it can be passed.
The proposed addendum to the Patriot Act, which the Justice Department has
insisted is only a draft of ideas, would enlarge many of the controversial
provisions in the first Patriot Act. It would give the government
authority
to wiretap an individual and collect a person’s DNA without court orders,
detain people in secret and revoke citizenship, among other powers.
The proposed sequel to the act has galvanized communities in a bottom-up,
grass-roots way, Talanian said. “Before a community votes on resolutions,
they engage in forums and petitioning to show the town council they want
this. After, communities band together and do things like visit the
offices
of their entire congressional delegations and say our communities have
these
concerns and now we are asking you to help.”
In Arcata, where forums drew little debate, the new law is an unqualified
hit. It passed by a vote of 4 to 1, but has what looks like near-unanimous
approval from residents.
Meserve, a weather-worn builder and contractor in his fifties who wears a
ponytail and flannel shirts, hasn’t felt so popular since he won his
council
seat running on the platform, “The Federal Government Has Gone Stark,
Raving
Mad.”
“The ordinance went through so easily that we were surprised,” he said.
“We
started going up to people asking what they thought. They thought,
‘great.’
It’s our citywide form of nonviolent disobedience.”
The fine for breaking the new law, which goes into effect May 2, is $57.
It
applies only to the top nine managers of the city, telling them they have
to
refer any Patriot Act request to the City Council.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: links at drugwar.com today
Date: April 22, 2003 at 7:13:30 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2003 7:01 AM
Subject: links at drugwar.com today

HI all,
You all wanna know what REALLY sucks? Lviing with half my intestines, a
rod from my hip to my knee from a shattered femur, unending psiatic (sp?)
nerve troubles, serious back and abdominal pain, and getting the very
minimal prescription from my doctor for dilaudid for that pain, that never
ending pain that had me very seriously visualizing  leaping off my fucking
roof day from the pain day before yesterday because I’m out of medication,
and am finding that I’m too fucking scared to talk to my doctor about
increasing my dose (though I’m sitting here working up the nerve to do just
that at 9AM today), as I’ve finished the almost utterly useless 2 milligram
dilaudid twice a day she’s prescribed me, and for for that matter, asking
her about refilling my prescrption 10 day early. I can’t fucking believe
that I have to be worried about talking to my doctor about getting adequet
pain relief, (in NY, where by law patients are entitled to adequet pain
relief) simply because I was honest with my doctor about my fucking junky
past, which is leeving me with her saying last time I asked for her to
increase my dose, “oh I’m uncomfortable doing that Preston.” Fuck that, if
she’s uncomfortable doing that, imagine how uncomfortable I am trying to
live with never ending, debilitating depressing pain and not being able to
afford to change doctors, like going to a pain specialist as someone on the
ibogaine list suggested to me a few days ago, as I’m thousands and thousands
and even more thousands of dollars in debts of other medical bills, like
rebuilding my freakin mouth.
I’m severely depressed and ill and not sure what the fuck to do. I do
NOT want to revert to finding street drugs to suppliment my script, and I
SHOULDN’T HAVE TO DAMNIT, were it not for FUCKING prohibition.
Anyway, once again I’m using these two lists to vent my fears,
frustrations and tears.
Peace all and please wish me luck calling my doctor this morning, PLEASE,
think good strong thoughts and wishes for me this morning. I’ve got another
2 hours before she MIGHT be in the office and I want to cut my body to
pieces I’m so sick of this unending fucking pain.
AAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Preston

sorry, here’s those aforementioned links, found at http://www.drugwar.com in
the left bar.

Calif. Locale to Sue Feds Over Medical Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A California county and its major city plan to sue the federal government
on Wednesday to allow the use of medical marijuana in a lawsuit they said
will mark the first legal challenge over the issue brought by a local
government.”

Medical marijuana user speaks about treatment (April 22, 2003)
“A day following April 20, or 4-20, a number associated with marijuana use,
George McMahon spoke on campus about his involvement with medical
marijuana.”

Federal marijuana too potent to use (April 22, 2003)
“Health Canada’s medical tests delayed again; first crop inconsistent,
second crop may be abandoned as too strong, too hard to grow.”

Hundreds Rally In Boulder For Legalization Of Marijuana (April 22, 2003)
“A crowd estimated by police at 800 gathered at Farrand Field at the
University of Colorado on Sunday to support the legalization of marijuana,
and smoke a little weed.”

Planned marijuana demonstration forces closure of Albuquerque park (April
22, 2003)
“Officers closed Roosevelt Park Sunday. In past years, the park has drawn
hundreds of people each April 20th to celebrate marijuana use.”

Marijuana for MS (April 22, 2003)
“Researchers from the Institute of Neurology in London are now experimenting
with marijuana to treat the symptoms of multiple sclerosis.”

Drug gangs take poppy growing to US doorstep (April 22, 2003)
“Mexico’s Pacific coast has become the new front-line in the US war against
hard drugs after farmers switched from marijuana to a deadly new product:
high-grade opium poppies.”

Poppies replace marijuana in Mexican hills (April 22, 2003)
“Marijuana has long been the main illegal crop on Mexico’s Pacific coast,
but now growers are switching to a more deadly and profitable product:
high-grade opium poppies used to make heroin.”

New Haven Police Lieutenant Faces Charges in Marijuana Case (April 22, 2003-
Free NYTimes registration required)
“A New Haven police lieutenant was arrested yesterday after officers
executing a search warrant found a pound and a half of marijuana in the
apartment she shared with her boyfriend, the authorities said.”

House Speaker Signals Opposition to Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 22, 2003)
Heartless US politicos oppose having hearts and compassion, prefering to
promote their tough law and order stance, to the detriment of patients in
dire need of the help medical marijuana gives them.

Topsy-turvy times for pot advocates Medical use has wide support, but
government cracking down (April 22, 2003)
“While most Americans say they support medical marijuana, the federal
government has won several high-profile criminal cases against cannabis
clubs and pot growers in the past year.”

U.S. Links Illegal Drug Production, Environmental Damage (April 22, 2003)
US prohibitionists utilizing crap reasoning to continue justifying their
evil war on some drugs and users.

Anisq’ Oyo’ Park Goes Up in Smoke (April 22, 2003)
“Music from several bands and the words of pro-hemp activists mingled with
swirling wisps of marijuana smoke in the air above Anisq’ Oyo’ Park on
Easter Sunday.”

Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax dollars (April
22, 2003)
“Instead of using the billions of taxpayer dollars to give facts about
marijuana effects and abuse, they decided to go back to the government’s
‘reefer madness’ approach of the 1930s. However, their approach is failing.”

Getting High for Science (April 22, 2003)
“So, even as the Feds spend $20 billion a year on the drug war, scientists
in the US and abroad have begun studying the potential benefits of X,
marijuana, and psychedelic mushrooms. Here’s a look at the whys behind the
highs.”

Candidate For Cannabis (April 22, 2003)
“To be honest, not many showed up in support of the pro-marijuana rally on
the Texas Tech campus. But Dr. Chip Peterson did. Peterson is the
Libertarian candidate for congress in the special election to replace Larry
Combest. And while Peterson does not recommend marijuana use, he also
doesn’t condone the current ban.”

Tattered but triumphant (April 22, 2003)
“The authorities wanted it. The bookstore owner concealed it…Exactly what
book did suspected methamphetamine maker Chris Montoya buy from her
bookstore to create all the fuss? A book on Japanese calligraphy, of
course.” Yet another example of a completely useless watste of US taxpayer
money on the part of intrusive, un-American feds working overtime to
overturn our Constitutionally protected rights.

Why did 420 come to mean that? (April 20, 2003)
“True story? Well, it’s at least the most elaborate..: According to Steven
Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High
School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who
called themselves the Waldos.”

What time is it? It’s 4:20! (April 20, 2003)
What are stoners talking about using this phrase?

4/20 an underground marijuana holiday (April 20, 2003)
“Internationally, it’s become known as the ‘universal smoke day,’ and even
the occasional weed smoker will light up to commemorate its underground
culture.”

HUD’s Financial Woes Continue (April 20, 2003)
“In 1999 the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) was unable to
account for $59 billion and, at the time, placed much of the blame on the
federal agency’s financial-management computer systems. Four years later,
despite hundreds of millions of dollars being paid to federal contractors to
fix the problem, HUD still cannot rely on these systems to account for its
funds.”

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Local Officials Rise Up to Defy The Patriot Act
Date: April 21, 2003 at 11:05:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Local Officials Rise Up to Defy The Patriot Act

Arcata, Calif., City Council member David Meserve drafted an ordinance
requiring town officials not to comply with the federal Patriot Act. (Kim
Komenich — San Francisco Chronicle)

By Evelyn Nieves
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, April 21, 2003; Page A01
ARCATA, Calif. — This North Coast city may look sweet — old,
low-to-the-ground buildings, town square with a bronze statue of William
McKinley, ambling pickup trucks — but it acts like a radical.
Arcata was one of the first cities to pass resolutions against global warming
and a unilateral war in Iraq. Last month, it joined the rising chorus of
municipalities to pass a resolution urging local law enforcement officials
and others contacted by federal officials to refuse requests under the
Patriot Act that they believe violate an individual’s civil rights under the
Constitution. Then, the city went a step further.
This little city (pop.: 16,000) has become the first in the nation to pass an
ordinance that outlaws voluntary compliance with the Patriot Act.
“I call this a nonviolent, preemptive attack,” said David Meserve, the
freshman City Council member who drafted the ordinance with the help of the
Arcata city attorney, city manager and police chief.
The Arcata ordinance may be the first, but it may not be the last. Across the
country, citizens have been forming Bill of Rights defense committees to
fight what they consider the most egregious curbs on liberties contained in
the Patriot Act. The 342-page act, passed by Congress one month after the
Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, with little input from a public still in
shock, has been most publicly criticized by librarians and bookstore owners
for the provisions that force them to secretly hand over information about a
patron’s reading and Internet habits. But citizens groups are becoming
increasingly organized and forceful in rebuking the Patriot Act and the
Homeland Security Act for giving the federal government too much power,
especially since a draft of the Justice Department’s proposed sequel to the
Patriot Act (dubbed Patriot II) was publicly leaked in January.
Both the Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Act, which created the
Cabinet-level department, follow the Constitution, says Justice Department
spokesman Mark Corallo. Federal law trumps local law in any case, which would
mean Arcata would be in for a fight — a fight it wants — if the feds did
make a Patriot Act request. LaRae Quy, a spokeswoman for the San Francisco
FBI office, whose jurisdiction includes Arcata, said that the agency has no
plans to use the Patriot Act in Arcata any time soon, but added that people
misunderstood it. Although some people feel their privacy rights are being
infringed upon, she said, the agency still has to show “probable cause for
any actions we take.”
But to date, 89 cities have passed resolutions condemning the Patriot Act,
with at least a dozen more in the works and a statewide resolution against
the act close to being passed in Hawaii.
“We want the local police to do what they were meant to do — protect their
citizens,” said Nancy Talanian, co-director of the Bill of Rights Defense
Committee in Florence, Mass., which gives advice to citizens groups on how to
draft their own resolution.
Although cities across the country passed antiwar resolutions before the att
ack on Iraq with little notice from the administration, Talanian said that
the anti-Patriot Act resolutions are “not quite as symbolic” as those that
passed against the war.
“Normally, the president and Congress don’t pay that much attention when it
comes to waging war,” she said. “But in the case of the Patriot Act, the
federal government can’t really tell municipalities that you have to do the
work that the INS or the FBI wants you to do. The city can say, ‘No, I’m
sorry. We hire our police to protect our citizens and we don’t want our
citizens pulled aside and thrown in jail without probable cause.’ ”
In Hawaii, home to many Japanese Americans who vividly recall the Japanese
internments during World War II, Democratic state Rep. Roy Takumi introduced
a resolution on the Patriot Act as a way to raise debate, he said. Although
the resolution may be seen as symbolic, he said, “states have every right to
consider the concerns of the federal government and voice our opinions. If a
number of states begin to pass similar resolutions, then it raises the bar
for Congress, making them realize our concerns. I hope to see what we’ve done
here plays a role in mobilizing people to take action.”
Lawmakers and lobbyists on both ends of the political spectrum are beginning
to sound more alarms about the antiterrorism act, which gave the government
unprecedented powers to spy on citizens. Rep. Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.) has
introduced a bill, the “Freedom to Read Protection Act” (H.R. 1157), that
would restore the privacy protections for library book borrowers and
bookstore purchases. The bill has 73 co-sponsors.
Earlier this month, Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.), the chairman of
the House Judiciary Committee, and Rep. John Conyers Jr. (Mich.), the ranking
Democrat, asked the Justice Department for more information on the
government’s use of the Patriot Act to track terrorists, questioning what
“tangible things” the government can subpoena in investigations of U.S.
citizens.
Sensenbrenner and Conyers sent an 18-page letter to Attorney General John D.
Ashcroft, challenging the department’s increased use of “national security
letters” requiring businesses to hand over electronic records on finances,
telephone calls, e-mails and other personal data.
They questioned the guidelines under which investigators can subpoena private
books, records, papers, documents and other items; asked whether the
investigations targeted only people identified as agents of a foreign power;
and asked the attorney general to “identify the specific authority relied on
for issuing these letters.”
The Justice Department said it is working on the request.
But citizens groups, worried about a timid Congress, are not waiting for
their elected officials to act before launching a campaign against the
proposed sequel to the Patriot Act, the “Domestic Security Enhancement Act.”
The Idaho Green Party has begun the Paul Revere Project to stop Patriot Act
II before it can be passed.
The proposed addendum to the Patriot Act, which the Justice Department has
insisted is only a draft of ideas, would enlarge many of the controversial
provisions in the first Patriot Act. It would give the government authority
to wiretap an individual and collect a person’s DNA without court orders,
detain people in secret and revoke citizenship, among other powers.
The proposed sequel to the act has galvanized communities in a bottom-up,
grass-roots way, Talanian said. “Before a community votes on resolutions,
they engage in forums and petitioning to show the town council they want
this. After, communities band together and do things like visit the offices
of their entire congressional delegations and say our communities have these
concerns and now we are asking you to help.”
In Arcata, where forums drew little debate, the new law is an unqualified
hit. It passed by a vote of 4 to 1, but has what looks like near-unanimous
approval from residents.
Meserve, a weather-worn builder and contractor in his fifties who wears a
ponytail and flannel shirts, hasn’t felt so popular since he won his council
seat running on the platform, “The Federal Government Has Gone Stark, Raving
Mad.”
“The ordinance went through so easily that we were surprised,” he said. “We
started going up to people asking what they thought. They thought, ‘great.’
It’s our citywide form of nonviolent disobedience.”
The fine for breaking the new law, which goes into effect May 2, is $57. It
applies only to the top nine managers of the city, telling them they have to
refer any Patriot Act request to the City Council.

From: Jeff Skupien <iom333@attbi.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Please remove me from your list
Date: April 21, 2003 at 6:28:07 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine mailing list <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please remove me from your list, it’s too much email for me on a daily basis. Thanks

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 21, 2003 at 3:17:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh shit!

And I felt so cozy and warm on this list, thinking it’s just us, posting on it (from time to time)…

Seems that we have a bit bigger community here, right?

(Hi mom ;-))
(Hi medical doctors =)
(Hi CIA, FBI and others like that :-((
(Hi everybody else =)  =)  =)

Hope you all agree that we should IBOgainise the world, right?

Marko

At 20:52 20.4.2003, you wrote:

As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people on THIS list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer to 3500,

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] a question about 2-ct–
Date: April 21, 2003 at 10:18:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfFand a question aboyt 2-ct–
Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 05:46:36 -0700 (PDT)

Does anyone have any experience  with 2-ct-2 and if you can do any Personal reflection with it.

Nick > check out this url if you havent already :

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/2ct2

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends – get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: MAPS: Upcoming Conference
Date: April 21, 2003 at 9:03:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: gnu@toad.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why isn’t there an Ibogaine presenter at this conference? Why not
Patrick, for instance? Why did all of these people (with the
exception of Gilmore) take a pass on our ibo forum, and then fail to
include Ibogaine in a conference on psychedelics?

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Dana/cnw

Delivered-To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 16:51:16 -0400
From: Brandy Doyle <brandymaps@earthlink.net>
Subject: MAPS: Upcoming Conference
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Status:

MAPS would like to draw its members’ attention to the Mind States IV
conference, where we will have a booth.

The conference, held May 23-25 at the International House in Berkeley, will
likely be of interest to MAPS members. Invited presenters include Pablo
Amaringo, Anton Barbeau, Susan Blackmore, Richard Glen Boire, Erik Davis,
Earth & Fire Erowid, John Gilmore, Alex & Allyson Grey, Stanislav Grof,
Lorenzo Hagerty, Mark Henson, Martina Hoffmann, Mark McCloud, Ralph Metzner,
Naaskow, David E. Nichols, Sheldon Norberg, Mark Pesce, Stevee Postman, V.S.
Ramachandran, Nicholas Sand, Wrye Sententia, Zoe Seven, Ann & Sasha Shulgin,
R.U. Sirius, Myron Stolaroff, Robert Venosa, and others. There will be
lectures, art, music, films, theater, a chill space, vendors, and more.

More information is available at http://www.mindstates.org

Tickets are selling fast for this event, and it is expected to sell out.
Tickets are $225.00 each until May 15, or $250.00 from May 16th, from: Mind
States, POB 19820, Sacramento, CA 95819. Credit card payments can be made
through the web site.

Come join us for what is sure to be an entertaining and educational event!

— MAPS

From: Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfFand a question aboyt 2-ct–
Date: April 21, 2003 at 8:46:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone have any experience  with 2-ct-2 and if you can do any Personal reflection with it.

Allison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Theres nothing wrong with a bit of digression in the discussions. Most
people are only human and talking about other stuff is human nature if you
ask me. If you don’t want to read it you only have to press the delete key
and get rid of it. Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “Bryon”
To:
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF

> This mailing list might be ok if most of the list contained info that
> people needed,,, I had a zillion mails today about fuck all,,,,,
> Now Ibogaine may work for some and not for others but guys lets write
> when we need to……….
>
> No bulshit no extra crap, lets get to the point
>
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
> Sent: 20 April 2003 21:53
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Subject: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
>
>
> Just as a brief note-type rant thing:
>
> THiS LIST:
>
> This is a public list. It is open to anybody who wants to sign up to
> it.
> As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people on THIS
> list (the one relating to ibogaine). The actual number is closer to
> 3500,
> since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software will
> automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since mail
> to
> them is bouncing, being blocked, or the list doesn’t
> like, has occurred.
>
> It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every 6
> months
> or so. Most of them have never said a word. A bunch of ’em are MD’s,
> PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who
> has
> ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.
> And that’s the accounts who have made no attempt to hide their identity,
> and are subscribed from @theirActualLocation, insteada @hotmail, @yahoo,
> @hush, @whateverTheFuck.
>
> I posted this a while back, like last year or sumthin’, when I ran an
> eXpeRimeNT, and accidentally — whoopsie — unsubscribed a lotta the
> people who are MD’s, to see if they were actually reading the thing, or
> just tossing the mail into some mailbox, which they skim through every
> few
> months. Within a week or two, roughly 90% are bacKkkk…
>
> To repeat, for the very last time: this is a OPEN and PUBLIC list. I
> actually have absolutely no fucking clue why anybody who signs up here,
> takes it upon themselves to do so, unless they wanna speak up and
> ‘splain
> this. Everything you write here IS archived. If you have made the
> choice
> to attach your real name to some crazy message that solicits people to
> commit felonies or can be construed as taking part in a conspiracy;
> well,
> hey, that’s all you mahn.
>
> We are violating NO laws by running a list that facilities the free
> exchange of information, and focuses on the discussion of drug-related
> topics. The subscriber list is NEVER released to anybody — but this
> actually means, pretty much nothing, since EVERYTHING on the internet is
> inherently insecure, and the possibility of comprise upstream — or
> even,
> our own servers — is a perpetual potential situation.
>
> – – – – – – – –
> –
>
> Sp4M:
>
> I feel your pain. I’ve had the same email address since !bang paths and
> uucp, were replaced by @ signs and SMTP (roughly 1991). I receive an
> average of 5,000 letters a DAY. ‘Bout 500 are actual pieces of email
> addressed to me by human type beings, and 4,500 are all in the MaKE
> Bill!0nZ overnighT! Lost 85 pounds in 12 minutes! Get a bigger dick!
> l0@k CuM CovErED SlutZ in He4t wid barnyard AnimulZ, Wanna Buy
> DrugZ!?!?!?
> And, of course, the whole entire, “I am living in a cardboard box, in
> the
> basement of a slum in Nigeria, but have access to 25 million worth of
> rare
> gems, and need your help in the STRICTEST seCreCY!!@#” drama collection.
>
> Basically, there are these things called robots, which do nuthin’ ‘cept
> wander around the web collecting addresses. They’re getting smarter,
> and
> many can now sign up to email lists and try to get more focused target
> demographics.
>
> Spam sent to the LIST, is killed. I cannot prevent
> or
> program> from signing themselves into the list, and collecting addresses
> of people who post. Nobody can. However…
>
> YOU probably already have the power to kill 99% of all email that you
> don’t want to see. EVERY fucking email provider, inbox, and service,
> has
> some kind of spam filter. Most of them are pretty idiot-proof. So take
> 5
> minutes and figure out how to use it.
>
> If I ever kill procmail, and just let my mail run without filters; it
> takes roughly half an hour to get completely overrun with crap. I guess
> I
> could just change email addresses, but, well, ya know, fuck that. I was
> here before spam existed, and if I take a few minutes of time to tune my
> filters, I can nonexist 99% of it before I ever see it.
>
> – – – – – – – –
> –
>
> The ILLUSION of privacy and the Internet (this is from something I
> dumped
> into DrugWar a while back, but is equally applicable here):
>
> *NOTHING* . N-O-T-H-I-N-G . NoThInG on the internet is either “private”
> or
> “secure.” This is an illusion. I am not saying BE EXTREMELY PARANOID
> AT ALL TIMES! ‘Course I’m not saying don’t be. I’m just pointing out
> that having the philosophy, “my head is stuck in the sand, and now they
> can’t find me!” Isn’t reality based.
>
> ALL communications on the internet can be intercepted through the
> backbones. They do not even need to access any sites, groups, or email
> they wish to monitor.
>
> Post Sep 11th, Carnivore *HAS* been let loose;
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carnivore
>
> Carnivore is essentially an idiot-proof front end for packet sniffing.
> It
> intercepts all communications that meet with a certain criteria in its
> ruleset, and then the field agent — who is presumed to be smart enough
> to
> pick up the box — gives it to someone else who sifts through the data.
>
> Carnivore is relatively small-scale in comparison to larger efforts like
> ECHELON, the purpose of which is essentially to intercept, sift/sort,
> and
> monitor, ALL communications, period. To protect you of course .
>
> http://www.echelonwatch.org/
>
> – – – – – – – –
> –
>
> The problem with all this is NOT gaining access to the data — there are
> many 15 year olds who can do that. The prollum is that there is an
> extremely vast, endless ocean of data, and it’s difficult to figure out
> WHAT and WHO you are looking for.
>
> All the drug lists, drug sites, usenet posts, all that shit, is
> automagically monitored and logged. But for the most part there isn’t
> anybody looking for YOU in particular.
>
> I would simply suggest having AWARENESS, and if you wish to protect
> yourself, or exchange information which is sensitive to you, then make
> use
> of PGP. If you want to be paranoid, then compile it yourself to make
> sure
> your copy doesn’t come with any EXTRA FEATURES! you didn’t want.
>
> A good place to gain a very basic understanding of encryption, is here:
>
>
> http://www.cypher.net/
>
> Click on [Tools]. Greg has run this for a while, he’s cool people, if
> anybody seriously needs help, I can get him to add input to this list,
> since that’s his main focus of interest.
>
> Another place to cruise an assortment of THINGS which you may find
> useful,
> and are pretty simple to understand; is here:
>
> http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html
>
> To wind down here; it is NOT against the law to talk about drugs,
> computer
> security, or your opinions. Though, there are a whole lotta people who
> would like to make it that way.
>
> My only intent was pointing out, that “privacy” and “security” are for
> the
> most part illusions; and it doesn’t hurt to keep that in mind.
>
> To reiterate: NOTHING that you type into your computer — without
> encryption — and send across the internet, in cleartext form, is EVER
> “private.” NOTHING – EVER — try to keep it in mind.
>
> – – – – – – – –
> –
>
> TECHNOL0GY:
>
> You live completely surrounded by technology. If you ask most people
> how
> works, the answer is somewhere along the lines of, “I
> dunno meng, magic?” What happens when you flip the lightswitch? How
> does
> your TV set work? What is your computer doing? How does your phone
> work?
>
> The answer for MOST people is: I have absolutely no fucking idea.
>
> It ain’t magic, it’s just an endlessly interconnected series of
> technologies, which can be pulled apart and intercepted, by pretty much
> anybody who has some understanding — and hence, control — over them.
>
> You are *COMPLETELY SURROUNDED* at all times, by THINGS that are trying
> to
> intercept your thoughts, steal your data, and sift through your
> existence.
> So it’s IMPORTANT to be ever vigilant, prepared, carry a loaded gun, and
> always remember: wrapping tin foil around your head — shiny side
> outwards
> — helps DeFleCT m1nd (ontr0l beams from the UFO’s orgone guns.
>
> NeXT week’s rant: when you say a lotta crazy shit in a “private”
> conversation, over your cellphone; try to think of it as holding a
> loaded
> gun to your head.
>
> ‘scuse me, gotta go take my medication,
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>

Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo.

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] doctor, doctor : i need medical attention………
Date: April 21, 2003 at 8:34:01 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tara wrote >

“I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or whatever.”

Patrick wrote>(re:mindvox list)

“It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every 6 months or so.Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s, PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.”

It kinda answers your question doesnt it tara.Its the detached clinical “gaze” all over, god forbid some (but not all) doctors would ever abandon their spurious claims to objectivity and get their hands dirty by actually posting anything on here.

It aint about “good” or “bad” doctors,just as it aint about “good” or “bad” methadone clinics.(which is kinda like talking about good or bad prisons IMO – we are still trapped in the maze, however we carve it up)

Its about the matrix of power and knowledge (see foucault “birth of the clinic” for the full scoop) that arose out of the enlightenment and how we collude with these experts/professionals as disseminators of knowledge and diagnosis.(did someone mention the witchtrials…1000’s of years of unbroken knowledge of gnostic herblore up in smoke, driven deep underground or appropriated by the good male doctors of the emerging industrial paradigm)

Its almost subliminal: how the validity of data/information depends on WHO is doing the speaking and how we carve up reality into arbitary binary oppositions of subjective/objective, professional/lay person,
doctor/patient.

Of course, loadsa cool work is getting done ala mash and the free university in holland, etc : but this is because of the people involved and not the structural nature of the medico-scientific matrix.

Most doctors distrust junkies (including a lot of so-called addiction specialists) unless the junkies happen to be rats. -dont expect fairness,empathy and impartial info as a matter of course.

Anecdote (yawn) >i kicked a ten year methadone habit with my first ibo dose. Two days later, i walked into my clinic here in england, grabbed my methadone,gave it away and informed the doctor i was no longer needing his services > you could see the power and control he had invested in our “relationship” (control over dose/pick-up/urine testing,etc) just fade out > it was one of the most satisfying moments of my life…;-)

This is no disrespect to you tara > just me getting years of resentment out of my system (perhaps some of the good doctors on this list could offer a clinical diagnosis on what are obviously deep issues of resentment and alienation towards those in authority)

paul.

“we are in this world, but not of this world.”

_________________________________________________________________
Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/mobile

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: May 1, 2003 at 5:24:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Theres nothing wrong with a bit of digression in the discussions.  Most
people are only human and talking about other stuff is human nature if you
ask me.  If you don’t want to read it you only have to press the delete key
and get rid of it.    Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: “Bryon” <Byron@unseenhand.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF

This mailing list might be ok if most of the list contained info that
people needed,,, I had a zillion mails today about fuck all,,,,,
Now Ibogaine may work for some and not for others but guys lets write
when we need to……….

No bulshit no extra crap, lets get to the point

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: 20 April 2003 21:53
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who wants to sign up to
it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer to
3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software will
automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since mail
to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other event> the list doesn’t
like, has occurred.

It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every 6
months
or so.  Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,
PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who
has
ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.
And that’s the accounts who have made no attempt to hide their identity,
and are subscribed from @theirActualLocation, insteada @hotmail, @yahoo,
@hush, @whateverTheFuck.

I posted this a while back, like last year or sumthin’, when I ran an
eXpeRimeNT, and accidentally — whoopsie — unsubscribed a lotta the
people who are MD’s, to see if they were actually reading the thing, or
just tossing the mail into some mailbox, which they skim through every
few
months.  Within a week or two, roughly 90% are bacKkkk…

To repeat, for the very last time: this is a OPEN and PUBLIC list.  I
actually have absolutely no fucking clue why anybody who signs up here,
takes it upon themselves to do so, unless they wanna speak up and
‘splain
this.  Everything you write here IS archived.  If you have made the
choice
to attach your real name to some crazy message that solicits people to
commit felonies or can be construed as taking part in a conspiracy;
well,
hey, that’s all you mahn.

We are violating NO laws by running a list that facilities the free
exchange of information, and focuses on the discussion of drug-related
topics.  The subscriber list is NEVER released to anybody — but this
actually means, pretty much nothing, since EVERYTHING on the internet is
inherently insecure, and the possibility of comprise upstream — or
even,
<gasp> our own servers — is a perpetual potential situation.

– – – – – – – –

Sp4M:

I feel your pain.  I’ve had the same email address since !bang paths and
uucp, were replaced by @ signs and SMTP (roughly 1991).  I receive an
average of 5,000 letters a DAY.  ‘Bout 500 are actual pieces of email
addressed to me by human type beings, and 4,500 are all in the MaKE
Bill!0nZ overnighT!  Lost 85 pounds in 12 minutes!  Get a bigger dick!
l0@k CuM CovErED SlutZ in He4t wid barnyard AnimulZ, Wanna Buy
DrugZ!?!?!?
And, of course, the whole entire, “I am living in a cardboard box, in
the
basement of a slum in Nigeria, but have access to 25 million worth of
rare
gems, and need your help in the STRICTEST seCreCY!!@#” drama collection.

Basically, there are these things called robots, which do nuthin’ ‘cept
wander around the web collecting addresses.  They’re getting smarter,
and
many can now sign up to email lists and try to get more focused target
demographics.

Spam sent to the LIST, is killed.  I cannot prevent <some given person
or
program> from signing themselves into the list, and collecting addresses
of people who post.  Nobody can.  However…

YOU probably already have the power to kill 99% of all email that you
don’t want to see.  EVERY fucking email provider, inbox, and service,
has
some kind of spam filter.  Most of them are pretty idiot-proof.  So take
5
minutes and figure out how to use it.

If I ever kill procmail, and just let my mail run without filters; it
takes roughly half an hour to get completely overrun with crap.  I guess
I
could just change email addresses, but, well, ya know, fuck that.  I was
here before spam existed, and if I take a few minutes of time to tune my
filters, I can nonexist 99% of it before I ever see it.

– – – – – – – –

The ILLUSION of privacy and the Internet (this is from something I
dumped
into DrugWar a while back, but is equally applicable here):

*NOTHING* . N-O-T-H-I-N-G . NoThInG on the internet is either “private”
or
“secure.”    This is an illusion.  I am not saying BE EXTREMELY PARANOID
AT ALL TIMES!  ‘Course I’m not saying don’t be.  I’m just pointing out
that having the philosophy, “my head is stuck in the sand, and now they
can’t find me!”  Isn’t reality based.

ALL communications on the internet can be intercepted through the
backbones.  They do not even need to access any sites, groups, or email
they wish to monitor.

Post Sep 11th, Carnivore *HAS* been let loose;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carnivore

Carnivore is essentially an idiot-proof front end for packet sniffing.
It
intercepts all communications that meet with a certain criteria in its
ruleset, and then the field agent — who is presumed to be smart enough
to
pick up the box — gives it to someone else who sifts through the data.

Carnivore is relatively small-scale in comparison to larger efforts like
ECHELON, the purpose of which is essentially to intercept, sift/sort,
and
monitor, ALL communications, period.  To protect you of course <giggle>.

http://www.echelonwatch.org/

– – – – – – – –

The problem with all this is NOT gaining access to the data — there are
many 15 year olds who can do that.  The prollum is that there is an
extremely vast, endless ocean of data, and it’s difficult to figure out
WHAT and WHO you are looking for.

All the drug lists, drug sites, usenet posts, all that shit, is
automagically monitored and logged.  But for the most part there isn’t
anybody looking for YOU in particular.

I would simply suggest having AWARENESS, and if you wish to protect
yourself, or exchange information which is sensitive to you, then make
use
of PGP.  If you want to be paranoid, then compile it yourself to make
sure
your copy doesn’t come with any EXTRA FEATURES! you didn’t want.

A good place to gain a very basic understanding of encryption, is here:

http://www.cypher.net/

Click on [Tools].  Greg has run this for a while, he’s cool people, if
anybody seriously needs help, I can get him to add input to this list,
since that’s his main focus of interest.

Another place to cruise an assortment of THINGS which you may find
useful,
and are pretty simple to understand; is here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html

To wind down here; it is NOT against the law to talk about drugs,
computer
security, or your opinions.  Though, there are a whole lotta people who
would like to make it that way.

My only intent was pointing out, that “privacy” and “security” are for
the
most part illusions; and it doesn’t hurt to keep that in mind.

To reiterate: NOTHING that you type into your computer — without
encryption — and send across the internet, in cleartext form, is EVER
“private.”  NOTHING – EVER — try to keep it in mind.

– – – – – – – –

TECHNOL0GY:

You live completely surrounded by technology.  If you ask most people
how
<any given thing> works, the answer is somewhere along the lines of, “I
dunno meng, magic?”  What happens when you flip the lightswitch?  How
does
your TV set work?  What is your computer doing?  How does your phone
work?

The answer for MOST people is: I have absolutely no fucking idea.

It ain’t magic, it’s just an endlessly interconnected series of
technologies, which can be pulled apart and intercepted, by pretty much
anybody who has some understanding — and hence, control — over them.

You are *COMPLETELY SURROUNDED* at all times, by THINGS that are trying
to
intercept your thoughts, steal your data, and sift through your
existence.
So it’s IMPORTANT to be ever vigilant, prepared, carry a loaded gun, and
always remember: wrapping tin foil around your head — shiny side
outwards
— helps DeFleCT m1nd (ontr0l beams from the UFO’s orgone guns.

NeXT week’s rant: when you say a lotta crazy shit in a “private”
conversation, over your cellphone; try to think of it as holding a
loaded
gun to your head.

‘scuse me, gotta go take my medication,

Patrick

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.
Date: April 21, 2003 at 12:45:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, go elaina. where IS this clinic????

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Philip K. Dick Spectrum Parallel Universes
Date: April 21, 2003 at 12:38:24 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok dana beal: i don’t know you or drone, so i am not judging you-at all. also, i don’t know a lot about ibo. so i admit i am talk ing out of my ass right now. but isn’t you question asking how to “make”pot” (or thc extract/pills) from hommon stuff. it is a plant. i know that much. that is where it comes from. can’t make dopw/o starting w/ poppoies. Or were you talking bout how to get extact out of plants you have at home.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Philip K. Dick Spectrum Parallel Universes
Date: April 20, 2003 at 10:17:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Drone you’re back! I thought you were busted for insider trading! 🙂
Where’s the ibogaine hcl from common household items receipie? Cmon, if
you can synthesise fentanyl from diet pills you can do it!

.:vector:.

Yeah. I sent the time traveler story to the pkd list. Slip, I think
you should take this stuff to philipkdick@yahoogroups.com , so I
don’t have to. But Vec, I don’t think this was the fentanyl guy…was
it?!?

Dana/cnw

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/wwn/20030319/104808600007.html

‘TIME-TRAVELER’ BUSTED FOR INSIDER TRADING
Wednesday March 19, 2003

By CHAD KULTGEN

NEW YORK — Federal investigators have arrested an enigmatic Wall
Street wiz on insider-trading charges — and incredibly, he claims to
be a time-traveler from the year 2256!

Sources at the Security and Exchange Commission confirm that
44-year-old Andrew Carlssin offered the bizarre explanation for his
uncanny success in the stock market after being led off in handcuffs on
January 28.

“We don’t believe this guy’s story — he’s either a lunatic or a
pathological liar,” says an SEC insider.

“But the fact is, with an initial investment of only $800, in two
weeks’ time he had a portfolio valued at over $350 million. Every trade
he made capitalized on unexpected business developments, which simply
can’t be pure luck.

“The only way he could pull it off is with illegal inside information.
He’s going to sit in a jail cell on Rikers Island until he agrees to
give up his sources.”

The past year of nose-diving stock prices has left most investors
crying in their beer. So when Carlssin made a flurry of 126 high-risk
trades and came out the winner every time, it raised the eyebrows of
Wall Street watchdogs.

“If a company’s stock rose due to a merger or technological
breakthrough that was supposed to be secret, Mr. Carlssin somehow knew
about it in advance,” says the SEC source close to the hush-hush,
ongoing investigation.

When investigators hauled Carlssin in for questioning, they got more
than they bargained for: A mind-boggling four-hour confession.

Carlssin declared that he had traveled back in time from over 200 years
in the future, when it is common knowledge that our era experienced one
of the worst stock plunges in history. Yet anyone armed with knowledge
of the handful of stocks destined to go through the roof could make a
fortune.

“It was just too tempting to resist,” Carlssin allegedly said in his
videotaped confession. “I had planned to make it look natural, you
know, lose a little here and there so it doesn’t look too perfect. But
I just got caught in the moment.”

In a bid for leniency, Carlssin has reportedly offered to divulge
“historical facts” such as the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden and a
cure for AIDS.

All he wants is to be allowed to return to the future in his “time
craft.”

However, he refuses to reveal the location of the machine or discuss
how it works, supposedly out of fear the technology could “fall into
the wrong hands.”

Officials are quite confident the “time-traveler’s” claims are bogus.
Yet the SEC source admits, “No one can find any record of any Andrew
Carlssin existing anywhere before December 2002.”

— Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com> wrote:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: <acer.nl@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 9:57:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Same experience. I too post to many lists and have not one piece of spam
since using hushmail. Very happy with it.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 14:36:25 -0700 crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

Bro everything you said here is very true. If very paranoid 😉

FWIW I’m on hushmail and post all the time to a lot of lists and
I have
so far no spam at all. They have good spam filters and I like their
service.
If anyone is thinking of switching over so far from rediff and hotmail
which I was both on before this, this is the best email service
I’ve
ever used. I like hush.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:52:56 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who wants to sign
up to it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people
on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer
to 3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software
will
automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since
mail to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other event> the list
doesn’t
like, has occurred.

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: Hush 2.2 (Java)
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify

wlwEARECABwFAj6jT6QVHGFjZXIubmxAaHVzaG1haWwuY29tAAoJEBgltJR9fs/zDT8A
ni0Cur6BkTa70OZI8omXiuYHqbgEAKCFCk5eoXKxdqQFjV0aYLRbFZN/cg==
=yBtR
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 20, 2003 at 9:59:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, i’ve gotta get back into using paragraphs. as a former english major, you think i could do that
In a message dated 4/19/2003 4:11:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, crownofthorns@hushmail.com writes:

Before doing that my only added advice would be that the key that says
ENTER on your keyboard. Use it once in a while please. It makes it hard
to read your very long messages when they are all in one long sentence.

Thanks and peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:06:34 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:
Hey Tara,

I suggest that you write a book about your life! Don’t worry, sooner
or
later you’ll be able to include a few IBO chapters…

;-))

Marko

At 18:35 19.4.2003, you wrote:
thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try
and create
a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily
see how it
works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor
on this
mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the
cause
and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field
medical
questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability
or
whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I
live on the
east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada
run by
marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were
saying
is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about
food? I
have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker
who
dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there,
including
nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but
I have also
heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and
vomiting as
well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium
for
panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of
people
having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that

benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days
after
cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food
and
medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate

about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable,
totally
natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect
the
appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for
anxiety, a
quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into
sleeping,
etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high
times/
cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen,
that
kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and
they
usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness
of the
stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days.
Can you
pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care
of new
patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer?
My
stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3
years, 2
years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being
at age
20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my
arm just to
keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder
around
here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall,
25 yo
female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even
on the few
days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable,
and you
have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems
to be to
take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get

frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs,
and a
kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get
my dose
at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me:
“hey, you
could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take
a lot to
remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had
to miss
more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very
dark
days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible
to get
high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise.
I
know there are other medications that prevent one from getting
high
(Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol,

but
I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just
hope
that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first
time
in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and
get high”
voice in the back of my head. A side note, and a reason I want
to quit: do
you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who
have had
nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication

for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate

addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came
to do.
Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use
of hard
drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal
to issue
take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a
large
chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse
it by
over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will
probably
be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since
kicking
dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life!
The
point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes,
except
on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have
to be
there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday.
A
wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches
out
the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>;
and she
must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the
same
length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn
is
dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean,
they
expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and
dose
until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes,
and they
make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified

nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once
a week,
and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou
ask to
see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases.
Anyone
relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was
younger
(18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped
less than
10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee,

and
I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel
sure I
would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then.
Back
then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school,

on
the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had
good
relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries:
I had a
physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands
of my
stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity

(as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of
my emails
seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another
thing
i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has
panic
disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this
new,
beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter;
the
pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them,
making
them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without
compare
with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night
you
need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click
as sure as
you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is
absolute
magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling
of Gatsby
sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside
that all of
the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles
on the
grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside
that
everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing
I was
suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to
be, simply
being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that
i may
always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been
able to
KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling
of
safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to
get scared
or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild
be well
again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that
using
heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for
a long
time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have

something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds

wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been
able to
numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing
myself. I
know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free,
and as
horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at
the hands
of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and
jumped
out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys;
I also had
no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have
been
worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people.
He
could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something

extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was
naked on
the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say
where and
how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape
of
himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on
tape (I
didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop,
and push
at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out
(he was a
boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch
it,
forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came
over with
another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I
know
you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the
shot, even
though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV,
dazed. He
laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you
can see
your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek,
I
swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and
switched
the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the
duration
(since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t
use
one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and

kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced
and he
said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first.
I
made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended
for
me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you
stupid
bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug
kicked in,
and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands
free,
grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the
wall, and
smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with
it: he
went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing
to climb
down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just
dropped.
I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well
dressed
woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent

spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered
womens
shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and
she just
stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the
back seat
with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first;
I kept
saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the
womens
studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt
ashamed.
This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took
me to
the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother
and
father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence
and
all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get
this guy,
I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop”
and he
knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on
the floor
in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment,

and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured

his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical

ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still
clean of
all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks
is why is
will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide”
your
trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking
out? Its
not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke
a
bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to
any or
all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon,

one
day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies,

such
as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would
be
forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from
within
ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back
our souls
and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to
help
others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them
help
themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe
them our
lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs.
Our enemies
are the
very air in disguise”-ani difranco Tbgelfling aka Tara

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From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 20, 2003 at 9:57:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

in response to your reply; I HATE LIVING IN THE SOUTH
In a message dated 4/19/2003 3:41:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes

A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do
you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had
nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication
for several years to get take homes? <

At Greenwhich House East in NYC, right near Astor Place, they allowed me
take homes with both ample evidence of THC in my urine, and a with outside
doctor’s dilaudid prescription too. I was going to the clinic only once a
week to pick up my supply, the mex they allowed for take homes there. But it
took a bit over a year, maybe even a little more, to get to that point.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Ustanova Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time

Hey Tara,

I suggest that you write a book about your life! Don’t worry, sooner or
later you’ll be able to include a few IBO chapters…

;-))

Marko

At 18:35 19.4.2003, you wrote:
thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try and create
a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily see how it
works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this
mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause
and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical
questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or
whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I live on the
east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada run by
marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were saying
is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about food? I
have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker who
dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there, including
nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but I have also
heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and vomiting as
well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium for
panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of people
having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that
benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days after
cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food and
medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate
about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable, totally
natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect the
appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for anxiety, a
quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into sleeping,
etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high times/
cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen, that
kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and they
usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness of the
stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days. Can you
pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care of new
patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer? My
stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3 years, 2
years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being at age
20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my arm just to
keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder around
here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall, 25 yo
female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even on the few
days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable, and you
have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems to be to
take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get
frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs, and a
kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get my dose
at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me: “hey, you
could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take a lot to
remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had to miss
more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very dark
days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible to get
high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise. I
know there are other medications that prevent one from getting high
(Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol, but
I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just hope
that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first time
in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and get high”
voice in the back of my head. A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do
you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had
nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication
for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate
addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came to do.
Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use of hard
drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal to issue
take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a large
chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse it by
over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will probably
be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since kicking
dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life! The
point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes, except
on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have to be
there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday. A
wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches out
the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>; and she
must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the same
length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn is
dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean, they
expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and dose
until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes, and they
make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified
nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once a week,
and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou ask to
see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases. Anyone
relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was younger
(18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped less than
10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee, and
I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel sure I
would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then. Back
then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school, on
the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had good
relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries: I had a
physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands of my
stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity
(as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of my emails
seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another thing
i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has panic
disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this new,
beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter; the
pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them, making
them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without compare
with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night you
need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click as sure as
you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is absolute
magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling of Gatsby
sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside that all of
the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles on the
grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside that
everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing I was
suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to be, simply
being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that i may
always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been able to
KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling of
safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to get scared
or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild be well
again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that using
heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for a long
time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have
something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds
wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been able to
numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing myself. I
know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free, and as
horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at the hands
of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and jumped
out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys; I also had
no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have been
worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people. He
could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something
extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was naked on
the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say where and
how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape of
himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on tape (I
didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop, and push
at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out (he was a
boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch it,
forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came over with
another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I know
you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the shot, even
though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV, dazed. He
laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you can see
your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek, I
swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and switched
the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the duration
(since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t use
one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and
kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced and he
said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first. I
made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended for
me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you stupid
bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug kicked in,
and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands free,
grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the wall, and
smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with it: he
went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing to climb
down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just dropped.
I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well dressed
woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent
spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered womens
shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and she just
stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the back seat
with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first; I kept
saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the womens
studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt ashamed.
This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took me to
the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother and
father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence and
all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get this guy,
I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop” and he
knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on the floor
in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment,
and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured
his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical
ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still clean of
all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks is why is
will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide” your
trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking out? Its
not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke a
bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to any or
all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon, one
day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies, such
as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would be
forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from within
ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back our souls
and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to help
others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them help
themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe them our
lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs. Our
enemies are the
very air in disguise”-ani difranco Tbgelfling aka Tara

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Philip K. Dick Spectrum Parallel Universes
Date: April 20, 2003 at 6:19:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Drone you’re back! I thought you were busted for insider trading! 🙂
Where’s the ibogaine hcl from common household items receipie? Cmon, if
you can synthesise fentanyl from diet pills you can do it!

.:vector:.

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/wwn/20030319/104808600007.html

‘TIME-TRAVELER’ BUSTED FOR INSIDER TRADING
Wednesday March 19, 2003

By CHAD KULTGEN

NEW YORK — Federal investigators have arrested an enigmatic Wall
Street wiz on insider-trading charges — and incredibly, he claims to
be a time-traveler from the year 2256!

Sources at the Security and Exchange Commission confirm that
44-year-old Andrew Carlssin offered the bizarre explanation for his
uncanny success in the stock market after being led off in handcuffs on
January 28.

“We don’t believe this guy’s story — he’s either a lunatic or a
pathological liar,” says an SEC insider.

“But the fact is, with an initial investment of only $800, in two
weeks’ time he had a portfolio valued at over $350 million. Every trade
he made capitalized on unexpected business developments, which simply
can’t be pure luck.

“The only way he could pull it off is with illegal inside information.
He’s going to sit in a jail cell on Rikers Island until he agrees to
give up his sources.”

The past year of nose-diving stock prices has left most investors
crying in their beer. So when Carlssin made a flurry of 126 high-risk
trades and came out the winner every time, it raised the eyebrows of
Wall Street watchdogs.

“If a company’s stock rose due to a merger or technological
breakthrough that was supposed to be secret, Mr. Carlssin somehow knew
about it in advance,” says the SEC source close to the hush-hush,
ongoing investigation.

When investigators hauled Carlssin in for questioning, they got more
than they bargained for: A mind-boggling four-hour confession.

Carlssin declared that he had traveled back in time from over 200 years
in the future, when it is common knowledge that our era experienced one
of the worst stock plunges in history. Yet anyone armed with knowledge
of the handful of stocks destined to go through the roof could make a
fortune.

“It was just too tempting to resist,” Carlssin allegedly said in his
videotaped confession. “I had planned to make it look natural, you
know, lose a little here and there so it doesn’t look too perfect. But
I just got caught in the moment.”

In a bid for leniency, Carlssin has reportedly offered to divulge
“historical facts” such as the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden and a
cure for AIDS.

All he wants is to be allowed to return to the future in his “time
craft.”

However, he refuses to reveal the location of the machine or discuss
how it works, supposedly out of fear the technology could “fall into
the wrong hands.”

Officials are quite confident the “time-traveler’s” claims are bogus.
Yet the SEC source admits, “No one can find any record of any Andrew
Carlssin existing anywhere before December 2002.”

— Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com> wrote:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Philip K. Dick Spectrum Parallel Universes
Date: April 20, 2003 at 6:00:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000F1EDD-B48A-1E90-8EA5809EC5880000

Scientific American

April 14, 2003

Parallel Universes

Not just a staple of science fiction, other universes are a direct implication of cosmological observations

By Max Tegmark

Is there a copy of you reading this article? A person who is not you but who lives on a planet called Earth, with misty mountains, fertile fields and sprawling cities, in a solar system with eight other planets? The life of this person has been identical to yours in every respect. But perhaps he or she now decides to put down this article without finishing it, while you read on.
The idea of such an alter ego seems strange and implausible, but it looks as if we will just have to live with it, because it is supported by astronomical observations. The simplest and most popular cosmological model today predicts that you have a twin in a galaxy about 10 to the 1028 meters from here. This distance is so large that it is beyond astronomical, but that does not make your doppelgänger any less real. The estimate is derived from elementary probability and does not even assume speculative modern physics, merely that space is infinite (or at least sufficiently large) in size and almost uniformly filled with matter, as observations indicate. In infinite space, even the most unlikely events must take place somewhere. There are infinitely many other inhabited planets, including not just one but infinitely many that have people with the same appearance, name and memories as you, who play out every possible permutation of your life choices.

early 20th century the theory of quantum mechanics revolutionized physics by explaining the atomic realm, which does not abide by the classical rules of Newtonian mechanics. Despite the obvious successes of the theory, a heated debate rages about what it really means. The theory specifies the state of the universe not in classical terms, such as the positions and velocities of all particles, but in terms of a mathematical object called a wave function. According to the Schrödinger equation, this state evolves over time in a fashion that mathematicians term “unitary,” meaning that the wave function rotates in an abstract infinite-dimensional space called Hilbert space. Although quantum mechanics is often described as inherently random and uncertain, the wave function evolves in a deterministic way. There is nothing random or uncertain about it.

The sticky part is how to connect this wave function with what we observe. Many legitimate wave functions correspond to counterintuitive situations, such as a cat being dead and alive at the same time in a so-called superposition. In the 1920s physicists explained away this weirdness by postulating that the wave function “collapsed” into some definite classical outcome whenever someone made an observation. This add-on had the virtue of explaining observations, but it turned an elegant, unitary theory into a kludgy, nonunitary one. The intrinsic randomness commonly ascribed to quantum mechanics is the result of this postulate.

Over the years many physicists have abandoned this view in favor of one developed in 1957 by Princeton graduate student Hugh Everett III. He showed that the collapse postulate is unnecessary. Unadulterated quantum theory does not, in fact, pose any contradictions. Although it predicts that one classical reality gradually splits into superpositions of many such realities, observers subjectively experience this splitting merely as a slight randomness, with probabilities in exact agreement with those from the old collapse postulate. This superposition of classical worlds is the Level III multiverse.

Everett’s many-worlds interpretation has been boggling minds inside and outside physics for more than four decades. But the theory becomes easier to grasp when one distinguishes between two ways of viewing a physical theory: the outside view of a physicist studying its mathematical equations, like a bird surveying a landscape from high above it, and the inside view of an observer living in the world described by the equations, like a frog living in the landscape surveyed by the bird.

From the bird perspective, the Level III multiverse is simple. There is only one wave function. It evolves smoothly and deterministically over time without any kind of splitting or parallelism. The abstract quantum world described by this evolving wave function contains within it a vast number of parallel classical story lines, continuously splitting and merging, as well as a number of quantum phenomena that lack a classical description. From their frog perspective, observers perceive only a tiny fraction of this full reality. They can view their own Level I universe, but a process called decoherence–which mimics wave function collapse while preserving unitarity–prevents them from seeing Level III parallel copies of themselves.

Whenever observers are asked a question, make a snap decision and give an answer, quantum effects in their brains lead to a superposition of outcomes, such as “Continue reading the article” and “Put down the article.” From the bird perspective, the act of making a decision causes a person to split into multiple copies: one who keeps on reading and one who doesn’t. From their frog perspective, however, each of these alter egos is unaware of the others and notices the branching merely as a slight randomness: a certain probability of continuing to read or not.

As strange as this may sound, the exact same situation occurs even in the Level I multiverse. You have evidently decided to keep on reading the article, but one of your alter egos in a distant galaxy put down the magazine after the first paragraph. The only difference between Level I and Level III is where your doppelgängers reside. In Level I they live elsewhere in good old three-dimensional space. In Level III they live on another quantum branch in infinite-dimensional Hilbert space.

The existence of Level III depends on one crucial assumption: that the time evolution of the wave function is unitary. So far experimenters have encountered no departures from unitarity. In the past few decades they have confirmed unitarity for ever larger systems, including carbon 60 buckyball molecules and kilometer-long optical fibers. On the theoretical side, the case for unitarity has been bolstered by the discovery of decoherence [see “100 Years of Quantum Mysteries,” by Max Tegmark and John Archibald Wheeler; Scientific American, February 2001]. Some theorists who work on quantum gravity have questioned unitarity; one concern is that evaporating black holes might destroy information, which would be a nonunitary process. But a recent breakthrough in string theory known as AdS/CFT correspondence suggests that even quantum gravity is unitary. If so, black holes do not destroy information but merely transmit it elsewhere. [Editors’ note: An upcoming article will discuss this correspondence in greater detail.]

If physics is unitary, then the standard picture of how quantum fluctuations operated early in the big bang must change. These fluctuations did not generate initial conditions at random. Rather they generated a quantum superposition of all possible initial conditions, which coexisted simultaneously. Decoherence then caused these initial conditions to behave classically in separate quantum branches. Here is the crucial point: the distribution of outcomes on different quantum branches in a given Hubble volume (Level III) is identical to the distribution of outcomes in different Hubble volumes within a single quantum branch (Level I). This property of the quantum fluctuations is known in statistical mechanics as ergodicity.

The same reasoning applies to Level II. The process of symmetry breaking did not produce a unique outcome but rather a superposition of all outcomes, which rapidly went their separate ways. So if physical constants, spacetime dimensionality and so on can vary among parallel quantum branches at Level III, then they will also vary among parallel universes at Level II.

In other words, the Level III multiverse adds nothing new beyond Level I and Level II, just more indistinguishable copies of the same universes–the same old story lines playing out again and again in other quantum branches. The passionate debate about Everett’s theory therefore seems to be ending in a grand anticlimax, with the discovery of less controversial multiverses (Levels I and II) that are equally large.

Needless to say, the implications are profound, and physicists are only beginning to explore them. For instance, consider the ramifications of the answer to a long-standing question: Does the number of universes exponentially increase over time? The surprising answer is no. From the bird perspective, there is of course only one quantum universe. From the frog perspective, what matters is the number of universes that are distinguishable at a given instant–that is, the number of noticeably different Hubble volumes. Imagine moving planets to random new locations, imagine having married someone else, and so on. At the quantum level, there are 10 to the 10118 universes with temperatures below 108 kelvins. That is a vast number, but a finite one.

From the frog perspective, the evolution of the wave function corresponds to a never-ending sliding from one of these 10 to the 10118 states to another. Now you are in universe A, the one in which you are reading this sentence. Now you are in universe B, the one in which you are reading this other sentence. Put differently, universe B has an observer identical to one in universe A, except with an extra instant of memories. All possible states exist at every instant, so the passage of time may be in the eye of the beholder–an idea explored in Greg Egan’s 1994 science-fiction novel Permutation City and developed by physicist David Deutsch of the University of Oxford, independent physicist Julian Barbour, and others. The multiverse framework may thus prove essential to understanding the nature of time.

Level IV: Other Mathematical Structures
The initial conditions and physical constants in the Level I, Level II and Level III multiverses can vary, but the fundamental laws that govern nature remain the same. Why stop there? Why not allow the laws themselves to vary? How about a universe that obeys the laws of classical physics, with no quantum effects? How about time that comes in discrete steps, as for computers, instead of being continuous? How about a universe that is simply an empty dodecahedron? In the Level IV multiverse, all these alternative realities actually exist.

A hint that such a multiverse might not be just some beer-fueled speculation is the tight correspondence between the worlds of abstract reasoning and of observed reality. Equations and, more generally, mathematical structures such as numbers, vectors and geometric objects describe the world with remarkable verisimilitude. In a famous 1959 lecture, physicist Eugene P. Wigner argued that “the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious.” Conversely, mathematical structures have an eerily real feel to them. They satisfy a central criterion of objective existence: they are the same no matter who studies them. A theorem is true regardless of whether it is proved by a human, a computer or an intelligent dolphin. Contemplative alien civilizations would find the same mathematical structures as we have. Accordingly, mathematicians commonly say that they discover mathematical structures rather than create them.

There are two tenable but diametrically opposed paradigms for understanding the correspondence between mathematics and physics, a dichotomy that arguably goes as far back as Plato and Aristotle. According to the Aristotelian paradigm, physical reality is fundamental and mathematical language is merely a useful approximation. According to the Platonic paradigm, the mathematical structure is the true reality and observers perceive it imperfectly. In other words, the two paradigms disagree on which is more basic, the frog perspective of the observer or the bird perspective of the physical laws. The Aristotelian paradigm prefers the frog perspective, whereas the Platonic paradigm prefers the bird perspective.

As children, long before we had even heard of mathematics, we were all indoctrinated with the Aristotelian paradigm. The Platonic view is an acquired taste. Modern theoretical physicists tend to be Platonists, suspecting that mathematics describes the universe so well because the universe is inherently mathematical. Then all of physics is ultimately a mathematics problem: a mathematician with unlimited intelligence and resources could in principle compute the frog perspective–that is, compute what self-aware observers the universe contains, what they perceive, and what languages they invent to describe their perceptions to one another.

A mathematical structure is an abstract, immutable entity existing outside of space and time. If history were a movie, the structure would correspond not to a single frame of it but to the entire videotape. Consider, for example, a world made up of pointlike particles moving around in three-dimensional space. In four-dimensional spacetime–the bird perspective–these particle trajectories resemble a tangle of spaghetti. If the frog sees a particle moving with constant velocity, the bird sees a straight strand of uncooked spaghetti. If the frog sees a pair of orbiting particles, the bird sees two spaghetti strands intertwined like a double helix. To the frog, the world is described by Newton’s laws of motion and gravitation. To the bird, it is described by the geometry of the pasta–a mathematical structure. The frog itself is merely a thick bundle of pasta, whose highly complex intertwining corresponds to a cluster of particles that store and process information. Our universe is far more complicated than this example, and scientists do not yet know to what, if any, mathematical structure it corresponds.

The Platonic paradigm raises the question of why the universe is the way it is. To an Aristotelian, this is a meaningless question: the universe just is. But a Platonist cannot help but wonder why it could not have been different. If the universe is inherently mathematical, then why was only one of the many mathematical structures singled out to describe a universe? A fundamental asymmetry appears to be built into the very heart of reality.

As a way out of this conundrum, I have suggested that complete mathematical symmetry holds: that all mathematical structures exist physically as well. Every mathematical structure corresponds to a parallel universe. The elements of this multiverse do not reside in the same space but exist outside of space and time. Most of them are probably devoid of observers. This hypothesis can be viewed as a form of radical Platonism, asserting that the mathematical structures in Plato’s realm of ideas or the “mindscape” of mathematician Rudy Rucker of San Jose State University exist in a physical sense. It is akin to what cosmologist John D. Barrow of the University of Cambridge refers to as “π in the sky,” what the late Harvard University philosopher Robert Nozick called the principle of fecundity and what the late Princeton philosopher David K. Lewis called modal realism. Level IV brings closure to the hierarchy of multiverses, because any self-consistent fundamental physical theory can be phrased as some kind of mathematical structure.

The Level IV multiverse hypothesis makes testable predictions. As with Level II, it involves an ensemble (in this case, the full range of mathematical structures) and selection effects. As mathematicians continue to categorize mathematical structures, they should find that the structure describing our world is the most generic one consistent with our observations. Similarly, our future observations should be the most generic ones that are consistent with our past observations, and our past observations should be the most generic ones that are consistent with our existence.

Quantifying what “generic” means is a severe problem, and this investigation is only now beginning. But one striking and encouraging feature of mathematical structures is that the symmetry and invariance properties that are responsible for the simplicity and orderliness of our universe tend to be generic, more the rule than the exception. Mathematical structures tend to have them by default, and complicated additional axioms must be added to make them go away.

What Says Occam?
The scientific theories of parallel universes, therefore, form a four-level hierarchy, in which universes become progressively more different from ours. They might have different initial conditions (Level I); different physical constants and particles (Level II); or different physical laws (Level IV). It is ironic that Level III is the one that has drawn the most fire in the past decades, because it is the only one that adds no qualitatively new types of universes.

In the coming decade, dramatically improved cosmological measurements of the microwave background and the large-scale matter distribution will support or refute Level I by further pinning down the curvature and topology of space. These measurements will also probe Level II by testing the theory of chaotic eternal inflation. Progress in both astrophysics and high-energy physics should also clarify the extent to which physical constants are fine-tuned, thereby weakening or strengthening the case for Level II.

If current efforts to build quantum computers succeed, they will provide further evidence for Level III, as they would, in essence, be exploiting the parallelism of the Level III multiverse for parallel computation. Experimenters are also looking for evidence of unitarity violation, which would rule out Level III. Finally, success or failure in the grand challenge of modern physics–unifying general relativity and quantum field theory–will sway opinions on Level IV. Either we will find a mathematical structure that exactly matches our universe, or we will bump up against a limit to the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics and have to abandon that level.

So should you believe in parallel universes? The principal arguments against them are that they are wasteful and that they are weird. The first argument is that multiverse theories are vulnerable to Occam’s razor because they postulate the existence of other worlds that we can never observe. Why should nature be so wasteful and indulge in such opulence as an infinity of different worlds? Yet this argument can be turned around to argue for a multiverse. What precisely would nature be wasting? Certainly not space, mass or atoms–the uncontroversial Level I multiverse already contains an infinite amount of all three, so who cares if nature wastes some more? The real issue here is the apparent reduction in simplicity. A skeptic worries about all the information necessary to specify all those unseen worlds.

But an entire ensemble is often much simpler than one of its members. This principle can be stated more formally using the notion of algorithmic information content. The algorithmic information content in a number is, roughly speaking, the length of the shortest computer program that will produce that number as output. For example, consider the set of all integers. Which is simpler, the whole set or just one number? Naively, you might think that a single number is simpler, but the entire set can be generated by quite a trivial computer program, whereas a single number can be hugely long. Therefore, the whole set is actually simpler.

Similarly, the set of all solutions to Einstein’s field equations is simpler than a specific solution. The former is described by a few equations, whereas the latter requires the specification of vast amounts of initial data on some hypersurface. The lesson is that complexity increases when we restrict our attention to one particular element in an ensemble, thereby losing the symmetry and simplicity that were inherent in the totality of all the elements taken together.

In this sense, the higher-level multiverses are simpler. Going from our universe to the Level I multiverse eliminates the need to specify initial conditions, upgrading to Level II eliminates the need to specify physical constants, and the Level IV multiverse eliminates the need to specify anything at all. The opulence of complexity is all in the subjective perceptions of observers–the frog perspective. From the bird perspective, the multiverse could hardly be any simpler.

The complaint about weirdness is aesthetic rather than scientific, and it really makes sense only in the Aristotelian worldview. Yet what did we expect? When we ask a profound question about the nature of reality, do we not expect an answer that sounds strange? Evolution provided us with intuition for the everyday physics that had survival value for our distant ancestors, so whenever we venture beyond the everyday world, we should expect it to seem bizarre.

A common feature of all four multiverse levels is that the simplest and arguably most elegant theory involves parallel universes by default. To deny the existence of those universes, one needs to complicate the theory by adding experimentally unsupported processes and ad hoc postulates: finite space, wave function collapse and ontological asymmetry. Our judgment therefore comes down to which we find more wasteful and inelegant: many worlds or many words. Perhaps we will gradually get used to the weird ways of our cosmos and find its strangeness to be part of its charm.

MAX TEGMARK wrote a four-dimensional version of the computer game Tetris while in college. In another universe, he went on to become a highly paid software developer. In our universe, however, he wound up as professor of physics and astronomy at the University of Pennsylvania. Tegmark is an expert in analyzing the cosmic microwave background and galaxy clustering. Much of his work bears on the concept of parallel universes: evaluating evidence for infinite space and cosmological inflation; developing insights into quantum decoherence; and studying the possibility that the amplitude of microwave background fluctuations, the dimensionality of spacetime and the fundamental laws of physics can vary from place to place.

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 5:36:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro everything you said here is very true. If very paranoid 😉

FWIW I’m on hushmail and post all the time to a lot of lists and I have
so far no spam at all. They have good spam filters and I like their service.
If anyone is thinking of switching over so far from rediff and hotmail
which I was both on before this, this is the best email service I’ve
ever used. I like hush.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 11:52:56 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who wants to sign
up to it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people
on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer
to 3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software
will
automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since
mail to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other event> the list
doesn’t
like, has occurred.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 5:34:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro the thing is the main part of here what ties it all together is ibogaine.
What I’ve learned in being here for about a year and maybe a little longer
is that everything relates to ibogaine 😉 Sometimes it relates so much
that there are 50 messages a day.

Between all the messages is a lot of very useful info. But people use
here as a sort of community, we talk about almost everything. If that’s
not what you like and only want exact info on ibogaine, then you should
check out the web sites instead. There is a old ibogaine list which is
pretty dead I think it has maybe 5 new messages a month and there are
I think 2 other ibogaine lists here from what I remember? ibeganagain
and sacrament? Which I signed up to but nobody ever says anything there
either. Everyone always lands on this list right here and then people
talk. About everything.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 13:57:57 -0700 Bryon <Byron@unseenhand.net> wrote:
This mailing list might be ok if most of the list contained info
that
people needed,,, I had a zillion mails today about fuck all,,,,,

Now Ibogaine may work for some and not for others but guys lets write
when we need to……….

No bulshit no extra crap, lets get to the point

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “Bryon” <Byron@unseenhand.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 4:57:57 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This mailing list might be ok if most of the list contained info that
people needed,,, I had a zillion mails today about fuck all,,,,,
Now Ibogaine may work for some and not for others but guys lets write
when we need to……….

No bulshit no extra crap, lets get to the point

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: 20 April 2003 21:53
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who wants to sign up to
it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer to
3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software will
automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since mail
to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other event> the list doesn’t
like, has occurred.

It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every 6
months
or so.  Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,
PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who
has
ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.
And that’s the accounts who have made no attempt to hide their identity,
and are subscribed from @theirActualLocation, insteada @hotmail, @yahoo,
@hush, @whateverTheFuck.

I posted this a while back, like last year or sumthin’, when I ran an
eXpeRimeNT, and accidentally — whoopsie — unsubscribed a lotta the
people who are MD’s, to see if they were actually reading the thing, or
just tossing the mail into some mailbox, which they skim through every
few
months.  Within a week or two, roughly 90% are bacKkkk…

To repeat, for the very last time: this is a OPEN and PUBLIC list.  I
actually have absolutely no fucking clue why anybody who signs up here,
takes it upon themselves to do so, unless they wanna speak up and
‘splain
this.  Everything you write here IS archived.  If you have made the
choice
to attach your real name to some crazy message that solicits people to
commit felonies or can be construed as taking part in a conspiracy;
well,
hey, that’s all you mahn.

We are violating NO laws by running a list that facilities the free
exchange of information, and focuses on the discussion of drug-related
topics.  The subscriber list is NEVER released to anybody — but this
actually means, pretty much nothing, since EVERYTHING on the internet is
inherently insecure, and the possibility of comprise upstream — or
even,
<gasp> our own servers — is a perpetual potential situation.

– – – – – – – –

Sp4M:

I feel your pain.  I’ve had the same email address since !bang paths and
uucp, were replaced by @ signs and SMTP (roughly 1991).  I receive an
average of 5,000 letters a DAY.  ‘Bout 500 are actual pieces of email
addressed to me by human type beings, and 4,500 are all in the MaKE
Bill!0nZ overnighT!  Lost 85 pounds in 12 minutes!  Get a bigger dick!
l0@k CuM CovErED SlutZ in He4t wid barnyard AnimulZ, Wanna Buy
DrugZ!?!?!?
And, of course, the whole entire, “I am living in a cardboard box, in
the
basement of a slum in Nigeria, but have access to 25 million worth of
rare
gems, and need your help in the STRICTEST seCreCY!!@#” drama collection.

Basically, there are these things called robots, which do nuthin’ ‘cept
wander around the web collecting addresses.  They’re getting smarter,
and
many can now sign up to email lists and try to get more focused target
demographics.

Spam sent to the LIST, is killed.  I cannot prevent <some given person
or
program> from signing themselves into the list, and collecting addresses
of people who post.  Nobody can.  However…

YOU probably already have the power to kill 99% of all email that you
don’t want to see.  EVERY fucking email provider, inbox, and service,
has
some kind of spam filter.  Most of them are pretty idiot-proof.  So take
5
minutes and figure out how to use it.

If I ever kill procmail, and just let my mail run without filters; it
takes roughly half an hour to get completely overrun with crap.  I guess
I
could just change email addresses, but, well, ya know, fuck that.  I was
here before spam existed, and if I take a few minutes of time to tune my
filters, I can nonexist 99% of it before I ever see it.

– – – – – – – –

The ILLUSION of privacy and the Internet (this is from something I
dumped
into DrugWar a while back, but is equally applicable here):

*NOTHING* . N-O-T-H-I-N-G . NoThInG on the internet is either “private”
or
“secure.”    This is an illusion.  I am not saying BE EXTREMELY PARANOID
AT ALL TIMES!  ‘Course I’m not saying don’t be.  I’m just pointing out
that having the philosophy, “my head is stuck in the sand, and now they
can’t find me!”  Isn’t reality based.

ALL communications on the internet can be intercepted through the
backbones.  They do not even need to access any sites, groups, or email
they wish to monitor.

Post Sep 11th, Carnivore *HAS* been let loose;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carnivore

Carnivore is essentially an idiot-proof front end for packet sniffing.
It
intercepts all communications that meet with a certain criteria in its
ruleset, and then the field agent — who is presumed to be smart enough
to
pick up the box — gives it to someone else who sifts through the data.

Carnivore is relatively small-scale in comparison to larger efforts like
ECHELON, the purpose of which is essentially to intercept, sift/sort,
and
monitor, ALL communications, period.  To protect you of course <giggle>.

http://www.echelonwatch.org/

– – – – – – – –

The problem with all this is NOT gaining access to the data — there are
many 15 year olds who can do that.  The prollum is that there is an
extremely vast, endless ocean of data, and it’s difficult to figure out
WHAT and WHO you are looking for.

All the drug lists, drug sites, usenet posts, all that shit, is
automagically monitored and logged.  But for the most part there isn’t
anybody looking for YOU in particular.

I would simply suggest having AWARENESS, and if you wish to protect
yourself, or exchange information which is sensitive to you, then make
use
of PGP.  If you want to be paranoid, then compile it yourself to make
sure
your copy doesn’t come with any EXTRA FEATURES! you didn’t want.

A good place to gain a very basic understanding of encryption, is here:

http://www.cypher.net/

Click on [Tools].  Greg has run this for a while, he’s cool people, if
anybody seriously needs help, I can get him to add input to this list,
since that’s his main focus of interest.

Another place to cruise an assortment of THINGS which you may find
useful,
and are pretty simple to understand; is here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html

To wind down here; it is NOT against the law to talk about drugs,
computer
security, or your opinions.  Though, there are a whole lotta people who
would like to make it that way.

My only intent was pointing out, that “privacy” and “security” are for
the
most part illusions; and it doesn’t hurt to keep that in mind.

To reiterate: NOTHING that you type into your computer — without
encryption — and send across the internet, in cleartext form, is EVER
“private.”  NOTHING – EVER — try to keep it in mind.

– – – – – – – –

TECHNOL0GY:

You live completely surrounded by technology.  If you ask most people
how
<any given thing> works, the answer is somewhere along the lines of, “I
dunno meng, magic?”  What happens when you flip the lightswitch?  How
does
your TV set work?  What is your computer doing?  How does your phone
work?

The answer for MOST people is: I have absolutely no fucking idea.

It ain’t magic, it’s just an endlessly interconnected series of
technologies, which can be pulled apart and intercepted, by pretty much
anybody who has some understanding — and hence, control — over them.

You are *COMPLETELY SURROUNDED* at all times, by THINGS that are trying
to
intercept your thoughts, steal your data, and sift through your
existence.
So it’s IMPORTANT to be ever vigilant, prepared, carry a loaded gun, and
always remember: wrapping tin foil around your head — shiny side
outwards
— helps DeFleCT m1nd (ontr0l beams from the UFO’s orgone guns.

NeXT week’s rant: when you say a lotta crazy shit in a “private”
conversation, over your cellphone; try to think of it as holding a
loaded
gun to your head.

‘scuse me, gotta go take my medication,

Patrick

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 4:38:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I work in the abuse dept at a domain registrar, where I
go through hundreds of spam complaints a day. Every day
we seize hordes of domain names that are either using
our servers, or have purchased an email account. Every
day, there are more complaints, but if you continue to
be spammed by a particular sender (if you can determine
its origin) you can have their registrar, or host
disable them by contacting their abuse dept.

Carla I dont think patrick said that you should go and
compile procmail
and figure it out, hotmail yahoo and aol have all done
that for you
already. Youre on yahoo which means youre looking at
exactly the same
interface i’m looking at right now. just go to  mail
options its on the
upper right hand corner, then go to filters.

Every msg also has the label ‘this is spam’ which you
can click and
block all the email from that address. its not very
hard.

Dont feel bad youre doing good you can use a search
engine and even
found procmail.

.:vector:.

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Patrick no offense but what is this? It’s english
but
I understand almost nothing that any of it says

http://www.procmail.org

“a few minutes to configure procmail” try more like
10
years before I figure out what it’s even saying.

I didn’t know carnivore and echelon even existed.
Now
that I do I’m not sure it makes me feel any better
about anything.

Loved the easter bunnies 😉

Tara hang in there! 🙂

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 4:13:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla I dont think patrick said that you should go and compile procmail
and figure it out, hotmail yahoo and aol have all done that for you
already. Youre on yahoo which means youre looking at exactly the same
interface i’m looking at right now. just go to  mail options its on the
upper right hand corner, then go to filters.

Every msg also has the label ‘this is spam’ which you can click and
block all the email from that address. its not very hard.

Dont feel bad youre doing good you can use a search engine and even
found procmail.

.:vector:.

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Patrick no offense but what is this? It’s english but
I understand almost nothing that any of it says

http://www.procmail.org

“a few minutes to configure procmail” try more like 10
years before I figure out what it’s even saying.

I didn’t know carnivore and echelon even existed. Now
that I do I’m not sure it makes me feel any better
about anything.

Loved the easter bunnies 😉

Tara hang in there! 🙂

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 3:53:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick no offense but what is this? It’s english but
I understand almost nothing that any of it says

http://www.procmail.org

“a few minutes to configure procmail” try more like 10
years before I figure out what it’s even saying.

I didn’t know carnivore and echelon even existed. Now
that I do I’m not sure it makes me feel any better
about anything.

Loved the easter bunnies 😉

Tara hang in there! 🙂

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who
wants to sign up to it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and
4000 people on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual
number is closer to 3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing
list software will
automagically remove them at some point in the near
future, since mail to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other
event> the list doesn’t
like, has occurred.

It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new
subscribers every 6 months
or so.  Most of them have never said a word.  A
bunch of ’em are MD’s,
PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty
much everybody who has
ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered
it into the media.
And that’s the accounts who have made no attempt to
hide their identity,
and are subscribed from @theirActualLocation,
insteada @hotmail, @yahoo,
@hush, @whateverTheFuck.

I posted this a while back, like last year or
sumthin’, when I ran an
eXpeRimeNT, and accidentally — whoopsie —
unsubscribed a lotta the
people who are MD’s, to see if they were actually
reading the thing, or
just tossing the mail into some mailbox, which they
skim through every few
months.  Within a week or two, roughly 90% are
bacKkkk…

To repeat, for the very last time: this is a OPEN
and PUBLIC list.  I
actually have absolutely no fucking clue why anybody
who signs up here,
takes it upon themselves to do so, unless they wanna
speak up and ‘splain
this.  Everything you write here IS archived.  If
you have made the choice
to attach your real name to some crazy message that
solicits people to
commit felonies or can be construed as taking part
in a conspiracy; well,
hey, that’s all you mahn.

We are violating NO laws by running a list that
facilities the free
exchange of information, and focuses on the
discussion of drug-related
topics.  The subscriber list is NEVER released to
anybody — but this
actually means, pretty much nothing, since
EVERYTHING on the internet is
inherently insecure, and the possibility of comprise
upstream — or even,
<gasp> our own servers — is a perpetual potential
situation.

– – – – – – – – –

Sp4M:

I feel your pain.  I’ve had the same email address
since !bang paths and
uucp, were replaced by @ signs and SMTP (roughly
1991).  I receive an
average of 5,000 letters a DAY.  ‘Bout 500 are
actual pieces of email
addressed to me by human type beings, and 4,500 are
all in the MaKE
Bill!0nZ overnighT!  Lost 85 pounds in 12 minutes!
Get a bigger dick!
l0@k CuM CovErED SlutZ in He4t wid barnyard AnimulZ,
Wanna Buy DrugZ!?!?!?
And, of course, the whole entire, “I am living in a
cardboard box, in the
basement of a slum in Nigeria, but have access to 25
million worth of rare
gems, and need your help in the STRICTEST
seCreCY!!@#” drama collection.

Basically, there are these things called robots,
which do nuthin’ ‘cept
wander around the web collecting addresses.  They’re
getting smarter, and
many can now sign up to email lists and try to get
more focused target
demographics.

Spam sent to the LIST, is killed.  I cannot prevent
<some given person or
program> from signing themselves into the list, and
collecting addresses
of people who post.  Nobody can.  However…

YOU probably already have the power to kill 99% of
all email that you
don’t want to see.  EVERY fucking email provider,
inbox, and service, has
some kind of spam filter.  Most of them are pretty
idiot-proof.  So take 5
minutes and figure out how to use it.

If I ever kill procmail, and just let my mail run
without filters; it
takes roughly half an hour to get completely overrun
with crap.  I guess I
could just change email addresses, but, well, ya
know, fuck that.  I was
here before spam existed, and if I take a few
minutes of time to tune my
filters, I can nonexist 99% of it before I ever see
it.

– – – – – – – – –

The ILLUSION of privacy and the Internet (this is
from something I dumped
into DrugWar a while back, but is equally applicable
here):

*NOTHING* . N-O-T-H-I-N-G . NoThInG on the internet
is either “private” or
“secure.”    This is an illusion.  I am not saying
BE EXTREMELY PARANOID
AT ALL TIMES!  ‘Course I’m not saying don’t be.  I’m
just pointing out
that having the philosophy, “my head is stuck in the
sand, and now they
can’t find me!”  Isn’t reality based.

ALL communications on the internet can be
intercepted through the
backbones.  They do not even need to access any
sites, groups, or email
they wish to monitor.

Post Sep 11th, Carnivore *HAS* been let loose;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carnivore

Carnivore is essentially an idiot-proof front end
for packet sniffing.  It
intercepts all communications that meet with a
certain criteria in its
ruleset, and then the field agent — who is presumed
to be smart enough to
pick up the box — gives it to someone else who
sifts through the data.

Carnivore is relatively small-scale in comparison to
larger efforts like
ECHELON, the purpose of which is essentially to
intercept, sift/sort, and
monitor, ALL communications, period.  To protect you
of course <giggle>.

http://www.echelonwatch.org/

– – – – – – – – –

The problem with all this is NOT gaining access to
the data — there are
many 15 year olds who can do that.  The prollum is
that there is an
extremely vast, endless ocean of data, and it’s
difficult to figure out
WHAT and WHO you are looking for.

All the drug lists, drug sites, usenet posts, all
that shit, is
automagically monitored and logged.  But for the
most part there isn’t
anybody looking for YOU in particular.

I would simply suggest having AWARENESS, and if you
wish to protect
yourself, or exchange information which is sensitive
to you, then make use
of PGP.  If you want to be paranoid, then compile it
yourself to make sure
your copy doesn’t come with any EXTRA FEATURES! you
didn’t want.

A good place to gain a very basic understanding of
encryption, is here:

http://www.cypher.net/

Click on [Tools].  Greg has run this for a while,
he’s cool people, if
anybody seriously needs help, I can get him to add
input to this list,
since that’s his main focus of interest.

Another place to cruise an assortment of THINGS
which you may find useful,
and are pretty simple to understand; is here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html

To wind down here; it is NOT against the law to talk
about drugs, computer
security, or your opinions.  Though, there are a
whole lotta people who
would like to make it that way.

My only intent was pointing out, that “privacy” and
“security” are for the
most part illusions; and it doesn’t hurt to keep
that in mind.

To reiterate: NOTHING that you type into your
computer — without
encryption — and send across the internet, in
cleartext form, is EVER
“private.”  NOTHING – EVER — try to keep it in
mind.

– – – – – – – – –

TECHNOL0GY:

You live completely surrounded by technology.  If
you ask most people how
<any given thing> works, the answer is somewhere
along the lines of, “I
dunno meng, magic?”  What happens when you flip the
lightswitch?  How does
your TV set work?  What is your computer doing?  How
does your phone work?

The answer for MOST people is: I have absolutely no
fucking idea.

It ain’t magic, it’s just an endlessly
interconnected series of
technologies, which can be pulled apart and
intercepted, by pretty much
anybody who has some understanding — and hence,
control — over them.

You are *COMPLETELY SURROUNDED* at all times, by
THINGS that are trying to
intercept your thoughts, steal your data, and sift
through your existence.
So it’s IMPORTANT to be ever vigilant, prepared,
carry a loaded gun, and
always remember: wrapping tin foil around your head
— shiny side outwards
— helps DeFleCT m1nd (ontr0l beams from the UFO’s
orgone guns.

NeXT week’s rant: when you say a lotta crazy shit in
a “private”
conversation, over your cellphone; try to think of
it as holding a loaded
gun to your head.

‘scuse me, gotta go take my medication,

Patrick

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 3:38:56 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

Hey friend Patrick and happy 420:

Am I being too open on the list? I don’t think I’ve said, or even really solicited anything yet, but have a firm policy of not hiding the fact that I personally feel prohibition sucks and the fuckers should know they have one pissed off, highly intelligent, lotsa writing writer-type dude, like say, me, out here slaving away to end their fucking war. Sometimes that entails voicing thoughts that might sound un-towing-of-the-official-line, but on the other hand, don’t want to endanger you, anyone on the list, or the list itself. so please tell me if I’ve stepped over a line somewhere.
Thanks, happy easter and 420 again.
Peace and looking forward to meeting you face to face soon.
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 2:52 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who wants to sign up to it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer to 3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software will
automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since mail to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other event> the list doesn’t
like, has occurred.

It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every 6 months
or so.  Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,
PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has
ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.
And that’s the accounts who have made no attempt to hide their identity,
and are subscribed from @theirActualLocation, insteada @hotmail, @yahoo,
@hush, @whateverTheFuck.

I posted this a while back, like last year or sumthin’, when I ran an
eXpeRimeNT, and accidentally — whoopsie — unsubscribed a lotta the
people who are MD’s, to see if they were actually reading the thing, or
just tossing the mail into some mailbox, which they skim through every few
months.  Within a week or two, roughly 90% are bacKkkk…

To repeat, for the very last time: this is a OPEN and PUBLIC list.  I
actually have absolutely no fucking clue why anybody who signs up here,
takes it upon themselves to do so, unless they wanna speak up and ‘splain
this.  Everything you write here IS archived.  If you have made the choice
to attach your real name to some crazy message that solicits people to
commit felonies or can be construed as taking part in a conspiracy; well,
hey, that’s all you mahn.

We are violating NO laws by running a list that facilities the free
exchange of information, and focuses on the discussion of drug-related
topics.  The subscriber list is NEVER released to anybody — but this
actually means, pretty much nothing, since EVERYTHING on the internet is
inherently insecure, and the possibility of comprise upstream — or even,
<gasp> our own servers — is a perpetual potential situation.

– – – – – – – – –

Sp4M:

I feel your pain.  I’ve had the same email address since !bang paths and
uucp, were replaced by @ signs and SMTP (roughly 1991).  I receive an
average of 5,000 letters a DAY.  ‘Bout 500 are actual pieces of email
addressed to me by human type beings, and 4,500 are all in the MaKE
Bill!0nZ overnighT!  Lost 85 pounds in 12 minutes!  Get a bigger dick!
l0@k CuM CovErED SlutZ in He4t wid barnyard AnimulZ, Wanna Buy DrugZ!?!?!?
And, of course, the whole entire, “I am living in a cardboard box, in the
basement of a slum in Nigeria, but have access to 25 million worth of rare
gems, and need your help in the STRICTEST seCreCY!!@#” drama collection.

Basically, there are these things called robots, which do nuthin’ ‘cept
wander around the web collecting addresses.  They’re getting smarter, and
many can now sign up to email lists and try to get more focused target
demographics.

Spam sent to the LIST, is killed.  I cannot prevent <some given person or
program> from signing themselves into the list, and collecting addresses
of people who post.  Nobody can.  However…

YOU probably already have the power to kill 99% of all email that you
don’t want to see.  EVERY fucking email provider, inbox, and service, has
some kind of spam filter.  Most of them are pretty idiot-proof.  So take 5
minutes and figure out how to use it.

If I ever kill procmail, and just let my mail run without filters; it
takes roughly half an hour to get completely overrun with crap.  I guess I
could just change email addresses, but, well, ya know, fuck that.  I was
here before spam existed, and if I take a few minutes of time to tune my
filters, I can nonexist 99% of it before I ever see it.

– – – – – – – – –

The ILLUSION of privacy and the Internet (this is from something I dumped
into DrugWar a while back, but is equally applicable here):

*NOTHING* . N-O-T-H-I-N-G . NoThInG on the internet is either “private” or
“secure.”    This is an illusion.  I am not saying BE EXTREMELY PARANOID
AT ALL TIMES!  ‘Course I’m not saying don’t be.  I’m just pointing out
that having the philosophy, “my head is stuck in the sand, and now they
can’t find me!”  Isn’t reality based.

ALL communications on the internet can be intercepted through the
backbones.  They do not even need to access any sites, groups, or email
they wish to monitor.

Post Sep 11th, Carnivore *HAS* been let loose;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carnivore

Carnivore is essentially an idiot-proof front end for packet sniffing.  It
intercepts all communications that meet with a certain criteria in its
ruleset, and then the field agent — who is presumed to be smart enough to
pick up the box — gives it to someone else who sifts through the data.

Carnivore is relatively small-scale in comparison to larger efforts like
ECHELON, the purpose of which is essentially to intercept, sift/sort, and
monitor, ALL communications, period.  To protect you of course <giggle>.

http://www.echelonwatch.org/

– – – – – – – – –

The problem with all this is NOT gaining access to the data — there are
many 15 year olds who can do that.  The prollum is that there is an
extremely vast, endless ocean of data, and it’s difficult to figure out
WHAT and WHO you are looking for.

All the drug lists, drug sites, usenet posts, all that shit, is
automagically monitored and logged.  But for the most part there isn’t
anybody looking for YOU in particular.

I would simply suggest having AWARENESS, and if you wish to protect
yourself, or exchange information which is sensitive to you, then make use
of PGP.  If you want to be paranoid, then compile it yourself to make sure
your copy doesn’t come with any EXTRA FEATURES! you didn’t want.

A good place to gain a very basic understanding of encryption, is here:

http://www.cypher.net/

Click on [Tools].  Greg has run this for a while, he’s cool people, if
anybody seriously needs help, I can get him to add input to this list,
since that’s his main focus of interest.

Another place to cruise an assortment of THINGS which you may find useful,
and are pretty simple to understand; is here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html

To wind down here; it is NOT against the law to talk about drugs, computer
security, or your opinions.  Though, there are a whole lotta people who
would like to make it that way.

My only intent was pointing out, that “privacy” and “security” are for the
most part illusions; and it doesn’t hurt to keep that in mind.

To reiterate: NOTHING that you type into your computer — without
encryption — and send across the internet, in cleartext form, is EVER
“private.”  NOTHING – EVER — try to keep it in mind.

– – – – – – – – –

TECHNOL0GY:

You live completely surrounded by technology.  If you ask most people how
<any given thing> works, the answer is somewhere along the lines of, “I
dunno meng, magic?”  What happens when you flip the lightswitch?  How does
your TV set work?  What is your computer doing?  How does your phone work?

The answer for MOST people is: I have absolutely no fucking idea.

It ain’t magic, it’s just an endlessly interconnected series of
technologies, which can be pulled apart and intercepted, by pretty much
anybody who has some understanding — and hence, control — over them.

You are *COMPLETELY SURROUNDED* at all times, by THINGS that are trying to
intercept your thoughts, steal your data, and sift through your existence.
So it’s IMPORTANT to be ever vigilant, prepared, carry a loaded gun, and
always remember: wrapping tin foil around your head — shiny side outwards
— helps DeFleCT m1nd (ontr0l beams from the UFO’s orgone guns.

NeXT week’s rant: when you say a lotta crazy shit in a “private”
conversation, over your cellphone; try to think of it as holding a loaded
gun to your head.

‘scuse me, gotta go take my medication,

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Spam, Privacy, This lisT and StUfF
Date: April 20, 2003 at 2:52:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just as a brief note-type rant thing:

THiS LIST:

This is a public list.  It is open to anybody who wants to sign up to it.
As of right now there are somewhere between 3500 and 4000 people on THIS
list (the one relating to ibogaine).  The actual number is closer to 3500,
since ’bout 500 accounts are flagged and the mailing list software will
automagically remove them at some point in the near future, since mail to
them is bouncing, being blocked, or <some other event> the list doesn’t
like, has occurred.

It appears to accumulate an average of 500 new subscribers every 6 months
or so.  Most of them have never said a word.  A bunch of ’em are MD’s,
PhD’s, people from insurance companies, and pretty much everybody who has
ever written sumthin’ ’bout ibogaine, and splattered it into the media.
And that’s the accounts who have made no attempt to hide their identity,
and are subscribed from @theirActualLocation, insteada @hotmail, @yahoo,
@hush, @whateverTheFuck.

I posted this a while back, like last year or sumthin’, when I ran an
eXpeRimeNT, and accidentally — whoopsie — unsubscribed a lotta the
people who are MD’s, to see if they were actually reading the thing, or
just tossing the mail into some mailbox, which they skim through every few
months.  Within a week or two, roughly 90% are bacKkkk…

To repeat, for the very last time: this is a OPEN and PUBLIC list.  I
actually have absolutely no fucking clue why anybody who signs up here,
takes it upon themselves to do so, unless they wanna speak up and ‘splain
this.  Everything you write here IS archived.  If you have made the choice
to attach your real name to some crazy message that solicits people to
commit felonies or can be construed as taking part in a conspiracy; well,
hey, that’s all you mahn.

We are violating NO laws by running a list that facilities the free
exchange of information, and focuses on the discussion of drug-related
topics.  The subscriber list is NEVER released to anybody — but this
actually means, pretty much nothing, since EVERYTHING on the internet is
inherently insecure, and the possibility of comprise upstream — or even,
<gasp> our own servers — is a perpetual potential situation.

– – – – – – – – –

Sp4M:

I feel your pain.  I’ve had the same email address since !bang paths and
uucp, were replaced by @ signs and SMTP (roughly 1991).  I receive an
average of 5,000 letters a DAY.  ‘Bout 500 are actual pieces of email
addressed to me by human type beings, and 4,500 are all in the MaKE
Bill!0nZ overnighT!  Lost 85 pounds in 12 minutes!  Get a bigger dick!
l0@k CuM CovErED SlutZ in He4t wid barnyard AnimulZ, Wanna Buy DrugZ!?!?!?
And, of course, the whole entire, “I am living in a cardboard box, in the
basement of a slum in Nigeria, but have access to 25 million worth of rare
gems, and need your help in the STRICTEST seCreCY!!@#” drama collection.

Basically, there are these things called robots, which do nuthin’ ‘cept
wander around the web collecting addresses.  They’re getting smarter, and
many can now sign up to email lists and try to get more focused target
demographics.

Spam sent to the LIST, is killed.  I cannot prevent <some given person or
program> from signing themselves into the list, and collecting addresses
of people who post.  Nobody can.  However…

YOU probably already have the power to kill 99% of all email that you
don’t want to see.  EVERY fucking email provider, inbox, and service, has
some kind of spam filter.  Most of them are pretty idiot-proof.  So take 5
minutes and figure out how to use it.

If I ever kill procmail, and just let my mail run without filters; it
takes roughly half an hour to get completely overrun with crap.  I guess I
could just change email addresses, but, well, ya know, fuck that.  I was
here before spam existed, and if I take a few minutes of time to tune my
filters, I can nonexist 99% of it before I ever see it.

– – – – – – – – –

The ILLUSION of privacy and the Internet (this is from something I dumped
into DrugWar a while back, but is equally applicable here):

*NOTHING* . N-O-T-H-I-N-G . NoThInG on the internet is either “private” or
“secure.”    This is an illusion.  I am not saying BE EXTREMELY PARANOID
AT ALL TIMES!  ‘Course I’m not saying don’t be.  I’m just pointing out
that having the philosophy, “my head is stuck in the sand, and now they
can’t find me!”  Isn’t reality based.

ALL communications on the internet can be intercepted through the
backbones.  They do not even need to access any sites, groups, or email
they wish to monitor.

Post Sep 11th, Carnivore *HAS* been let loose;

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=carnivore

Carnivore is essentially an idiot-proof front end for packet sniffing.  It
intercepts all communications that meet with a certain criteria in its
ruleset, and then the field agent — who is presumed to be smart enough to
pick up the box — gives it to someone else who sifts through the data.

Carnivore is relatively small-scale in comparison to larger efforts like
ECHELON, the purpose of which is essentially to intercept, sift/sort, and
monitor, ALL communications, period.  To protect you of course <giggle>.

http://www.echelonwatch.org/

– – – – – – – – –

The problem with all this is NOT gaining access to the data — there are
many 15 year olds who can do that.  The prollum is that there is an
extremely vast, endless ocean of data, and it’s difficult to figure out
WHAT and WHO you are looking for.

All the drug lists, drug sites, usenet posts, all that shit, is
automagically monitored and logged.  But for the most part there isn’t
anybody looking for YOU in particular.

I would simply suggest having AWARENESS, and if you wish to protect
yourself, or exchange information which is sensitive to you, then make use
of PGP.  If you want to be paranoid, then compile it yourself to make sure
your copy doesn’t come with any EXTRA FEATURES! you didn’t want.

A good place to gain a very basic understanding of encryption, is here:

http://www.cypher.net/

Click on [Tools].  Greg has run this for a while, he’s cool people, if
anybody seriously needs help, I can get him to add input to this list,
since that’s his main focus of interest.

Another place to cruise an assortment of THINGS which you may find useful,
and are pretty simple to understand; is here:

http://www.epic.org/privacy/tools.html

To wind down here; it is NOT against the law to talk about drugs, computer
security, or your opinions.  Though, there are a whole lotta people who
would like to make it that way.

My only intent was pointing out, that “privacy” and “security” are for the
most part illusions; and it doesn’t hurt to keep that in mind.

To reiterate: NOTHING that you type into your computer — without
encryption — and send across the internet, in cleartext form, is EVER
“private.”  NOTHING – EVER — try to keep it in mind.

– – – – – – – – –

TECHNOL0GY:

You live completely surrounded by technology.  If you ask most people how
<any given thing> works, the answer is somewhere along the lines of, “I
dunno meng, magic?”  What happens when you flip the lightswitch?  How does
your TV set work?  What is your computer doing?  How does your phone work?

The answer for MOST people is: I have absolutely no fucking idea.

It ain’t magic, it’s just an endlessly interconnected series of
technologies, which can be pulled apart and intercepted, by pretty much
anybody who has some understanding — and hence, control — over them.

You are *COMPLETELY SURROUNDED* at all times, by THINGS that are trying to
intercept your thoughts, steal your data, and sift through your existence.
So it’s IMPORTANT to be ever vigilant, prepared, carry a loaded gun, and
always remember: wrapping tin foil around your head — shiny side outwards
— helps DeFleCT m1nd (ontr0l beams from the UFO’s orgone guns.

NeXT week’s rant: when you say a lotta crazy shit in a “private”
conversation, over your cellphone; try to think of it as holding a loaded
gun to your head.

‘scuse me, gotta go take my medication,

Patrick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 20, 2003 at 2:55:46 PM EDT
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too

Thanks to everyone (please forgive me for not thanking by name everyone who
answered) for their very well thought out responces to my questioning babble
yesterday. I’ve definitely come to the conclusion that this is something I
am going to try…as soon as I figure out how to scrape together cash to
actually get some, (having massive debts for things, like, say, rent and a
girlfriend freakin’out over our horrid expenses) and the peaceful place to
try it. I don’t think iboga therapy house is going to be my route
unfortunately, as beautiful a place as it sounds to do so and how I would
actually not hesitate were certain situations different. I think I’m going
to have to experience it closer to home, which of course isn’t exactly LEGAL
(asshole prohibitionists), but will be kept very quiet. My feelers are out
to a person or two who may have some advice in that area too, and will be
sure to let everyone know when it does happen, though at the moment, I don’t
see it happening in the very immediate future, as much as I do want to do it
as soon as possible. Poverty stricken Destitution makes for poor spending
power. (maybe someone will trade a write up/report for a dose or two, but
I’ll have to wait for someone to tell me, “hey, that’s a great idea- here
you go.”;-)))
Did I already wish everyone here a Happy Easter and 420? If not, I hope
and wish it for you all. I love this list, and the information and obvious
caring that is shared here.
Who woulda thunk it from all the propaganda- druggies and even “ex”
druggies are people too, even compassionate, thoughtful, intelligent people
with more heart than more any non-druggies I’ve ever met.
You all rock, and I honestly most whole heartedly appreciate all of your
feedback from my ponderings yesterday, and most all of you are in my
thoughts on and off all the time.
Peace and love.
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: paul jackamo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too

PrestonPeet wrote :

Anyway, I’m babbling rather publicly here from my freezing cold NYC
apartment, but I’m genuinely curious, utterly broke, in debt and
passportless, and careening towards another of those weird often nasty
crossroads things at a speed that gets more difficult to keep a handle on
as
the crossroads loom closer.
argh. my brain and soul hurt, almost as much as the rest of me.

Pete > Ive often checked out the stuff at drugwar.com and you strike me as
an intelligent and smart dude.I think its no accident that you are starting
to wonder about ibogaine at this point in your life (you were obviously
aware of it before now).
I think for some of us, (not all), ibogaine “appears” (or becomes an option
we may have once discounted) when we have reached the end of the road or
rather the end of all roads.
I was interested that you used the crossroads metaphor because that is
exactly what ibogaine opens up: “a crossroads”, where what once seemed like
a fixed and closed loop of endless repitition of thought, feeling and action
unfolds itself onto a plane of infinite possibility and choice : (its
interesting that the bwiti often speak of encountering a crossroads under
the influence of iboga and the metaphor of the crossroads forms the backbone
of african and western magical traditions, but thats another story…)
Anyway Peet, its a win/win situation with ibogaine, if the protocols are
followed – you WILL benefit from taking it, you will even find benefits that
you hadnt considered prior to its ingestion.
You may find that you still need opiate based meds for pain management, you
may find that other non-opioid based treatments are opened up to you (who
knows what you may find!)
If i was based in amerika and in your position peet, i would seriously get
in contact with iboga therapy house as the treatment is free(cool!)
(being broke is often(not always) an adjunct of reaching the end of the
line!)-get your passport renewed and fly out.
(nope, this aint an advert for i.t.h. – i dont know the guys, i just think
that anyone offering ibogaine therapy for free deserves huge applause – if
some guys in europe hadnt sent me ibogaine hcl at cost then there is no way
as a street junky, i could have afforded any in-house treatment)

and keep the tape recorder handy! – “bWop-bWap-iiiYYYbbbbOOO…..when will
this shit ever fucking end -aaggghhh!” 😉

take care

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059

From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anyone else getting spammed
Date: April 20, 2003 at 1:10:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

===== Original Message From Tbgelfling@aol.com =====
i just read the thing about the girl who is getting all the spam. me too: I
have like 150 new messages a day. Please tell me these names are not given out
to advertisers!how are they getting to us? all sorts of illegal “no
prescription neccesary” offers for international maail order drugs-a trigger
for many i am sure.

basically, there are people who go all over the web collecting email
addresses, and then they sell them to spammers…

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 20, 2003 at 1:04:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks to everyone (please forgive me for not thanking by name everyone who
answered) for their very well thought out responces to my questioning babble
yesterday. I’ve definitely come to the conclusion that this is something I
am going to try…as soon as I figure out how to scrape together cash to
actually get some, (having massive debts for things, like, say, rent and a
girlfriend freakin’out over our horrid expenses) and the peaceful place to
try it. I don’t think iboga therapy house is going to be my route
unfortunately, as beautiful a place as it sounds to do so and how I would
actually not hesitate were certain situations different. I think I’m going
to have to experience it closer to home, which of course isn’t exactly LEGAL
(asshole prohibitionists), but will be kept very quiet. My feelers are out
to a person or two who may have some advice in that area too, and will be
sure to let everyone know when it does happen, though at the moment, I don’t
see it happening in the very immediate future, as much as I do want to do it
as soon as possible. Poverty stricken Destitution makes for poor spending
power. (maybe someone will trade a write up/report for a dose or two, but
I’ll have to wait for someone to tell me, “hey, that’s a great idea- here
you go.”;-)))
Did I already wish everyone here a Happy Easter and 420? If not, I hope
and wish it for you all. I love this list, and the information and obvious
caring that is shared here.
Who woulda thunk it from all the propaganda- druggies and even “ex”
druggies are people too, even compassionate, thoughtful, intelligent people
with more heart than more any non-druggies I’ve ever met.
You all rock, and I honestly most whole heartedly appreciate all of your
feedback from my ponderings yesterday, and most all of you are in my
thoughts on and off all the time.
Peace and love.
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: paul jackamo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too

PrestonPeet wrote :

Anyway, I’m babbling rather publicly here from my freezing cold NYC
apartment, but I’m genuinely curious, utterly broke, in debt and
passportless, and careening towards another of those weird often nasty
crossroads things at a speed that gets more difficult to keep a handle on
as
the crossroads loom closer.
argh. my brain and soul hurt, almost as much as the rest of me.

Pete > Ive often checked out the stuff at drugwar.com and you strike me as
an intelligent and smart dude.I think its no accident that you are starting
to wonder about ibogaine at this point in your life (you were obviously
aware of it before now).
I think for some of us, (not all), ibogaine “appears” (or becomes an option
we may have once discounted) when we have reached the end of the road or
rather the end of all roads.
I was interested that you used the crossroads metaphor because that is
exactly what ibogaine opens up: “a crossroads”, where what once seemed like
a fixed and closed loop of endless repitition of thought, feeling and action
unfolds itself onto a plane of infinite possibility and choice : (its
interesting that the bwiti often speak of encountering a crossroads under
the influence of iboga and the metaphor of the crossroads forms the backbone
of african and western magical traditions, but thats another story…)
Anyway Peet, its a win/win situation with ibogaine, if the protocols are
followed – you WILL benefit from taking it, you will even find benefits that
you hadnt considered prior to its ingestion.
You may find that you still need opiate based meds for pain management, you
may find that other non-opioid based treatments are opened up to you (who
knows what you may find!)
If i was based in amerika and in your position peet, i would seriously get
in contact with iboga therapy house as the treatment is free(cool!)
(being broke is often(not always) an adjunct of reaching the end of the
line!)-get your passport renewed and fly out.
(nope, this aint an advert for i.t.h. – i dont know the guys, i just think
that anyone offering ibogaine therapy for free deserves huge applause – if
some guys in europe hadnt sent me ibogaine hcl at cost then there is no way
as a street junky, i could have afforded any in-house treatment)

and keep the tape recorder handy! – “bWop-bWap-iiiYYYbbbbOOO…..when will
this shit ever fucking end -aaggghhh!” 😉

take care

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 30, 2003 at 7:33:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston just sounds very down, cold and pissed off with everything from what
I picked up.  As he said NYC is cold etc.  Pity you didn’t have a passport
Preston you would be welcome to come out to NZ and enjoy the scenery,
mountains, lake and sunshine and cruise out specially if you could bring
your girlfriend or partner.We are making the most of the last of summer
before winter sets in and we have to hide inside by the fire.    Am sure it
would be good for the mind and soul….Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too

What I find the funniest and most ironic of all is that the one person
who said that their first ibogaine did not too much in the long run and
relapsed minutes off the airplane? (Patrick), is the same person who
has become the main poster child for ibogaine success after their second
ibogaine and did it with Mash, while following none of the advice her
treatment pimps give everyone else. A junkie who went to Bangkok and
reintegrated with LSD after ibogaine. Got to love that.

What’s funniest is that when you see them talk, it’s obvious Mash doesn’t
believe in any of the 12 step disease of addiction either. When Patrick
goes off on treatment pimps she’s laughing her ass off.

Preston I think ibogaine is whatever you make it. What ever else it does
bro, it does clean you up. I love your writing and I don’t think you
are in a negative space at all so get some ibo. I thought you already
did it, I’ve been on this list for about 1 year now bro and you were
here before me.

Peace out and give it a try bro, see where you are afterward. You are
already in a good head most of the time right now, can’t see how it would
do anything except take it higher.
Curtis

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:54:54 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/18/03 9:51:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering
and a
bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsof says
that
he was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again.
Sooooo,
what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how
well it
would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large
assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates
for
simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine?
How do
we deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt
with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses, just
do it,’
but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where else
am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe
even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever
actually
get to?)

Preston,

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, than just
cross
ibogaine off as a worthless medication.  No big deal.  And, three
years is a
rather long run from a single ibogaine treatment so let me even
add that.
The key factor however, excluding possibly Patrick, is that ibogaine
time is
time free of craving for dope and that is something just about impossible
to
imagine unless you experience it.  That makes ibogaine something
very special.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.
Date: April 30, 2003 at 7:28:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good for you eliana.  Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: Eaquinet@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

In response to Tara and all else who wrote about maltreatments in meth clinics. The first one i was in was horrendous–same things as you described, and worse–however, after that i found (through NAMA–or ATWatchdog, don’t recall) a “National Specialty Clinic” in another state over (but only 2 hr. drive). It was like going from heaven to hell. The second clinic gave me 28 days of takehomes from day 1!!! (I’d been going in 3xwk. at the first clinic and that was after 5+ years there). They are wonderful people, very kind and caring, there was never a wait more than 5 minutes; they never do “observed” drops, and they dispensed to me the white tablets (even at 160 mg/d dose). Only negative:  costs $336/month ($12/day). I was lucky that my insurance actually paid 80% of it.  Other good news though is:  ibogaine works if you want it to. But, with you Tara, it sounds like there’s lots of complex and difficult emotional issues and i’d think that it will be important to make sure some arrangements are paid for therapy, support, etc. before you go for the ibo treatment, just to be sure you have something good to come back to.  (oh, to the person asking about meth costs: my first clinic was sliding scale from $0 to max. $32/wk…but as mentioned, the “care” was TORTUOUS–i called it “my little clinic of horrors”…the ONLY reason i’ve sat foot in it since i transferred to the second clinic was after coming back from my ibo treatment, and that was to put up flyers about ibogaine for all the poor souls still there). many blessings to all the beautiful people on this list, eliana

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.
Date: April 30, 2003 at 7:20:59 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In New Zealand if you have been on the methadone programme for a couple of years which they call long term and have no problems, you can opt to get your script from your local GP providing he is OK with that and then that frees up the programe waiting list and you just see your GP every couple of months, which costs a doctors visit fee but is lots easier and you can get takeaways every 2nd day or for a max of 4 or 5 over holiday periods.  Our clinics here revolve round councilling.  If you are on the National Health and methadone clinic you are obliged to see a councillor every month or so and be prepared to supply urine samples until proven trustworthy if that makes any sense and after that they let your own doctor keep an eye on you.  Tis easier but still the liquid handcuff situation.    Allison
PS  I have also been getting lots of spam about scripts on the net, valium, viagra and all sorts.  Is it cos we are on a drug sort of list, do they think we will buy anything???
Personally I wish they would bugger off and stop clogging up my mail box and taking my time up deleting their rubbish.
—– Original Message —–
From: Robin Downard
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

Hi,
I live in Maryland.  I go in once a week at my clinic.  I pay $80 per week…..yes I said $80.00, eighty dollars, per week.  When I started , it was $70 per week.  It went up this year.  They also just recently started testing for marijuana.  They just stopped doing observed UAs.  The wait is not bad if you go at the the right time.  They have buses that bring Medical Assistance patients from Baltimore once or twice a day.  The clinic is open until 12noon, and they open at 5:30am.  I can only complain about the fee as I realize some people go to clinics from HELL.  Well, I hope this helped.

Take care,
Robin

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Skupien
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:10 PM
To: Ibogaine mailing list
Subject: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

I am writing in response to Tara, who was asking about other people who
are on methadone and their ability to take home your meth. I am in
Chicago, IL and I have been on meth for quite a while now. My clinic
doesn’t care about THC being found in your system. I only go in to get
medicated every 2 weeks. Soon I should be able to go in only once a
month! I always have THC in my system, as I smoke weed pretty much
every day. On top of that, I get to take home “dry” medication, which
they give to me in tablet form. Most other people who take their meth
home have water or juice put into it before they can carry it home. I
guess I found a really good clinic! I never have to wait in line more
than a couple minutes, and I’m always out the door in less than 5
minutes. The only bad part is that it costs $60.00 a week! I am curious
as to what other people pay for their meth, here in the US. Please
write to the list and let us know. My point for writing this is to say
that not all clinics are so lame, you just need to look around a bit,
and maybe you can find a better option for treatment. Before I went to
my current clinic, I opted for a slightly cheaper clinic, and it was a
royal pain, just like the one Tara goes to –  I had to go in 6 days a
week, and much of the time I had to wait more than 20 minutes
(sometimes up to an hour) just to get medicated. So, maybe you need to
look around at other meth clinics. Soon I hope to be going to the Iboga
therapy house and hopefully I will be able to leave the entire
methadone experience behind me, and hopefully you will too.

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From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thanks all from tbgelfling (tara)
Date: April 30, 2003 at 7:05:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hang in there Tara.  I just read through your e-mail.  You obviously have
the will to get off and I agree with you.  Taking methadone only keeps you
functioning as you would normally but its a pain in the neck every morning.
Things are not nearly so tough here in NZ.  My partner is on 85mgs a day so
you are obviously on a high dosage especially at your age;  We are 43 and 44
yrs and have been through the mill repeatedly doing withdrawal and
methadone.  Have you got some good friends or  someone to give you
support???   Also girl,  Slow Down and take a bit of time.  Nothing happens
instantly.  Good luck and take care of yourself.  Would like to hear how you
get on with the ibogaine.  …Allison
—– Original Message —–
From: <Tbgelfling@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:11 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] thanks all from tbgelfling (tara)

thanks to all who read and reply to my long emails. I am not the skeptic
here, my father is. if i can give him some scientific evidence, if i can
show him which receptors it works on and why it works, if i can convince him
that it is more than just a introspective and physically painful trip that
convinces you to stop (he will never buy that, and if i had a nickel for all
the times i really wanted to stop: i want to stop: it isn’t as if methadone
gets you high, and pot is the only recreational drug i use, a drug used at
the iboga houses: so basically, dad feels that i have the mental will to
quit, but physically, i can’t. i don’t enjoy standing in line every am to
feel normal.now, based on the testimonials, i can save the money and get
myself there, but that will probably take a year. Dad can send me there in a
month. See my dillema? Love to all, and hope, Tara

From: “Allison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:dosage, nausea advice requested
Date: April 30, 2003 at 6:56:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Allison here.  I should have rephrased what I wrote cos it was obviously
misunderstood or taken out of context.  I was talking about perscription
drugs like voltaren etc that are designed for rectal administration.
I didn’t mean to stuff any old pills etc. up there….—– Original
Message —–
From: <Tbgelfling@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2003 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:dosage, nausea advice requested

ok, ew. butt doesn’t it hurt? bad pun…i’ve heard kids talk about putting
ecstacy up butts, but i don’t do that stuff anymore (hard drugs). are you
saying if i put my daily valium pills in my butt they’d work better?
seriously: can you take them rectally and get a decidedly fastr result: I
ask b/c when i have a strong panic attack, sometimes it is like a siezure; I
have had to go to the hospital and ave a valium injection b/c my heart rate
was so fast and pills are too slow.

In a message dated 4/3/2003 5:23:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes
My information regarding taking any form of medication by rectum is far
more
efficient than orally.  If you take pills and medication orally there is
always possible damage to all the body parts they have to pass through
to
get to the appropriate place in the body but if you take them rectally
(hope
that is a proper word??)  the ingredients pass into the body faster and
with
far less damage to other organs and no you don’t lose any benefits
taking
medication that way,.  In fact you should get more benefit from it.
I know that in France they are great believers in administering drugs by
rectum rather than orally and it seems to be a good way of
administrating
medication.
Alison
—– Original Message —–
From: “ad astra” <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:15 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:dosage, nausea advice requested

Hi

Thanks for some very helpful advice and encouragement!

A follow-up question about the rectal method of
administration: is that as effective as oral
administration?  I.E. will I still absorb all the
ibogaine and associated alkaloids?  Are there any
known complications from that route of administration
that differ from the oral method?  And finally, does
anybody recall the scene in the movie TRAINSPOTTING in
which Rentboy, having just inserted a couple of opium
suppositories, sarcastically remarks, “For all the
good they did, I may as well have shoved them up my
arse.”?    Hee hee :p

BTW I love this mailing list…however I’m less
enthusastic about the amount of commercial spam that
started coming in immediately after I signed up.  Oh
well, I guess into each life a little spam must fall.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center – File online, calculators, forms, and
more
http://tax.yahoo.com

From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thanks all from tbgelfling (tara)
Date: April 20, 2003 at 1:40:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oops…..in my last posting i described the move from first to second meth clinic as “from heaven to hell”….this was a MAJOR slip of the fingers and should have read “from hell to heaven.”  Also, mentioned to you, Tara, about setting up after-care arrangements ahead of time and said, “important to PAID arrangements…” (or something like that)  I meant, “important to MAKE arrangements” (hmmm, might involve the former though as well….) eliana

From: Eaquinet@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.
Date: April 20, 2003 at 1:37:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In response to Tara and all else who wrote about maltreatments in meth clinics. The first one i was in was horrendous–same things as you described, and worse–however, after that i found (through NAMA–or ATWatchdog, don’t recall) a “National Specialty Clinic” in another state over (but only 2 hr. drive). It was like going from heaven to hell. The second clinic gave me 28 days of takehomes from day 1!!! (I’d been going in 3xwk. at the first clinic and that was after 5+ years there). They are wonderful people, very kind and caring, there was never a wait more than 5 minutes; they never do “observed” drops, and they dispensed to me the white tablets (even at 160 mg/d dose). Only negative:  costs $336/month ($12/day). I was lucky that my insurance actually paid 80% of it.  Other good news though is:  ibogaine works if you want it to. But, with you Tara, it sounds like there’s lots of complex and difficult emotional issues and i’d think that it will be important to make sure some arrangements are paid for therapy, support, etc. before you go for the ibo treatment, just to be sure you have something good to come back to.  (oh, to the person asking about meth costs: my first clinic was sliding scale from $0 to max. $32/wk…but as mentioned, the “care” was TORTUOUS–i called it “my little clinic of horrors”…the ONLY reason i’ve sat foot in it since i transferred to the second clinic was after coming back from my ibo treatment, and that was to put up flyers about ibogaine for all the poor souls still there). many blessings to all the beautiful people on this list, eliana

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thanks all from tbgelfling (tara)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 6:47:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tara,

“> I am not the skeptic here, my father is. if i can
give him some scientific evidence”

here, scientific evidence, there is loads more (I
think about 200 peer reviewed articles on medline);

(http://ibogaine.org/science.html is them main science
page, the 3 links below are included)

http://ibogaine.org/alkaloids.html
(and all the receptor sites you could ask for at the
end).

and here http://ibogaine.org/review-dotf.html

Also Dated but GREAT, a first in the field of ibogaine

http://ibogaine.org/bwiti1.html

That is a good start

Brett
— Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
thanks to all who read and reply to my long emails.
I am not the skeptic here, my father is. if i can
give him some scientific evidence, if i can show him
which receptors it works on and why it works, if i
can convince him that it is more than just a
introspective and physically painful trip that
convinces you to stop (he will never buy that, and
if i had a nickel for all the times i really wanted
to stop: i want to stop: it isn’t as if methadone
gets you high, and pot is the only recreational drug
i use, a drug used at the iboga houses: so
basically, dad feels that i have the mental will to
quit, but physically, i can’t. i don’t enjoy
standing in line every am to feel normal.now, based
on the testimonials, i can save the money and get
myself there, but that will probably take a year.
Dad can send me there in a month. See my dillema?
Love to all, and hope, Tara

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “Robin Downard” <RobinLynnDownard@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.
Date: April 19, 2003 at 6:45:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
I live in Maryland.  I go in once a week at my clinic.  I pay $80 per week…..yes I said $80.00, eighty dollars, per week.  When I started , it was $70 per week.  It went up this year.  They also just recently started testing for marijuana.  They just stopped doing observed UAs.  The wait is not bad if you go at the the right time.  They have buses that bring Medical Assistance patients from Baltimore once or twice a day.  The clinic is open until 12noon, and they open at 5:30am.  I can only complain about the fee as I realize some people go to clinics from HELL.  Well, I hope this helped.

Take care,
Robin

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeff Skupien
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 6:10 PM
To: Ibogaine mailing list
Subject: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.

I am writing in response to Tara, who was asking about other people who
are on methadone and their ability to take home your meth. I am in
Chicago, IL and I have been on meth for quite a while now. My clinic
doesn’t care about THC being found in your system. I only go in to get
medicated every 2 weeks. Soon I should be able to go in only once a
month! I always have THC in my system, as I smoke weed pretty much
every day. On top of that, I get to take home “dry” medication, which
they give to me in tablet form. Most other people who take their meth
home have water or juice put into it before they can carry it home. I
guess I found a really good clinic! I never have to wait in line more
than a couple minutes, and I’m always out the door in less than 5
minutes. The only bad part is that it costs $60.00 a week! I am curious
as to what other people pay for their meth, here in the US. Please
write to the list and let us know. My point for writing this is to say
that not all clinics are so lame, you just need to look around a bit,
and maybe you can find a better option for treatment. Before I went to
my current clinic, I opted for a slightly cheaper clinic, and it was a
royal pain, just like the one Tara goes to –  I had to go in 6 days a
week, and much of the time I had to wait more than 20 minutes
(sometimes up to an hour) just to get medicated. So, maybe you need to
look around at other meth clinics. Soon I hope to be going to the Iboga
therapy house and hopefully I will be able to leave the entire
methadone experience behind me, and hopefully you will too.

Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

From: <acer.nl@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 19, 2003 at 6:41:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I dont think any such big mystery and before I say, let me say I have
disrespect for no one on this list. I love it here and think all are
good people and spread much information.

Everyone do things for many reason as was post here not long ago. Marc
give ibogaine because he care sure but because he want publicity. Others
sell to make money, Mash want glory and fame as scientist. Not big difference

Mash is neuroscientist not treatment pimp or 12 step promoter. Patrick
is person who has completely documented past as drug addicted maniac
and comes with big media kit and he willing to step up and add his name
to what he say, not anonymous. So Mash end up with big exception to everything,
lunatic with 200 iq who has life of nothing but addiction, sees all
specialists and then detox with ibogaine and in public over and over
give all credit to Mash and ibogaine. Mash looks great, she has complete
mess who is now complete different person who make her look great.

Ibogaine look great for same reason and have person there who credit
ibogaine and entheogen drugs, who failure of all other treatments and
smart enough to debate so called experts and tell them why all failures.
Mash laughs, of course, she neuroscientist not treatment pimp. Everybody
use everybody.

Not to say so one sided, seeing video it more like Mash and Patrick have
relationship, whatever, but obvious they having good time. Their business.
But all theatre anyway, both very charisma and watch video again funny,
patrick look like very smart prettyboy, then roll up sleeves which has
to be so planned but effective, ok what you say true you are crazy, track
marks on his arms have trackmarks, like somebody took dull knife and
drag down each arm 1000 times. Everyone happy except maybe those who
want to make money by selling treatment after ibogaine. Don’t think too
many like that on this list.

Mash wants data but what will be accept if she says make no difference
with or without normal treatment after ibogaine. Hard to follow where
people go and make it hard for anybody to accept data. This not make
it true, anymore then any so called treatment for drug addiction or after
ibogaine care involve 12 steps work better then any other way.

Only sure part is ibogaine work to get you off other drugs! How everyone
do after I think reading this list not so long as 2 years like some here,
it obvious that many different way and solutions. But it does work preston!
Try it and find out yourself!! Change your life!

Good wishes to all

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 14:26:23 -0700 crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:

What I find the funniest and most ironic of all is that the one person
who said that their first ibogaine did not too much in the long
run and
relapsed minutes off the airplane? (Patrick), is the same person
who
has become the main poster child for ibogaine success after their
second
ibogaine and did it with Mash, while following none of the advice
her
treatment pimps give everyone else. A junkie who went to Bangkok
and
reintegrated with LSD after ibogaine. Got to love that.

What’s funniest is that when you see them talk, it’s obvious Mash
doesn’t
believe in any of the 12 step disease of addiction either. When
Patrick
goes off on treatment pimps she’s laughing her ass off.

Preston I think ibogaine is whatever you make it. What ever else
it does
bro, it does clean you up. I love your writing and I don’t think
you
are in a negative space at all so get some ibo. I thought you already
did it, I’ve been on this list for about 1 year now bro and you
were
here before me.

Peace out and give it a try bro, see where you are afterward. You
are
already in a good head most of the time right now, can’t see how
it would
do anything except take it higher.
Curtis

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:54:54 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/18/03 9:51:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering
and a
bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsof says
that
he was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again.
Sooooo,
what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how
well it
would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather
large
assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates
for
simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine?
How do
we deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt
with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses,
just
do it,’
but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where
else
am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe
even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever
actually
get to?)

Preston,

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, than
just
cross
ibogaine off as a worthless medication.  No big deal.  And, three
years is a
rather long run from a single ibogaine treatment so let me even
add that.
The key factor however, excluding possibly Patrick, is that ibogaine
time is
time free of craving for dope and that is something just about
impossible
to
imagine unless you experience it.  That makes ibogaine something
very special.

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Version: Hush 2.2 (Java)
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify

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From: Jeff Skupien <iom333@attbi.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Take home mmethadone.
Date: April 19, 2003 at 6:09:03 PM EDT
To: Ibogaine mailing list <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am writing in response to Tara, who was asking about other people who are on methadone and their ability to take home your meth. I am in Chicago, IL and I have been on meth for quite a while now. My clinic doesn’t care about THC being found in your system. I only go in to get medicated every 2 weeks. Soon I should be able to go in only once a month! I always have THC in my system, as I smoke weed pretty much every day. On top of that, I get to take home “dry” medication, which they give to me in tablet form. Most other people who take their meth home have water or juice put into it before they can carry it home. I guess I found a really good clinic! I never have to wait in line more than a couple minutes, and I’m always out the door in less than 5 minutes. The only bad part is that it costs $60.00 a week! I am curious as to what other people pay for their meth, here in the US. Please write to the list and let us know. My point for writing this is to say that not all clinics are so lame, you just need to look around a bit, and maybe you can find a better option for treatment. Before I went to my current clinic, I opted for a slightly cheaper clinic, and it was a royal pain, just like the one Tara goes to –  I had to go in 6 days a week, and much of the time I had to wait more than 20 minutes (sometimes up to an hour) just to get medicated. So, maybe you need to look around at other meth clinics. Soon I hope to be going to the Iboga therapy house and hopefully I will be able to leave the entire methadone experience behind me, and hopefully you will too.

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post ibo treatment
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:27:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Let’s hope it comes closer to happening. What you have happening in Florida
sounds great Eric.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 17 Apr 2003 11:04:19 -0700 IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com wrote:
Hiya,
Over the past few years there have been several, mostly
younger
people, but a few in their late 30’s and 40’s who have have relocated
to
Gainesville immediately after returning from their treatment and
so far none
have had a relapse.  This is unusual especially since most of the
people are
in their 20’s.  Although for reasons unknown to me north central
Florida has
a minimal opiate situation, this is not the reason for the ability
for people
to stay clean here. None of the respective parents relocate.
Most often, addiction has to do with some level of abandment
from
the same sex parent.  This understanding, along with a specific
spiritual
perspective which is available through a dear friend who has been
here for 25
years, along with the growing community of iboga initiates, lends
to this
happening.  I’m very pleased.  I only wish there were 50 other such

situations in communities here in the U.S.

Eric

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:26:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What I find the funniest and most ironic of all is that the one person
who said that their first ibogaine did not too much in the long run and
relapsed minutes off the airplane? (Patrick), is the same person who
has become the main poster child for ibogaine success after their second
ibogaine and did it with Mash, while following none of the advice her
treatment pimps give everyone else. A junkie who went to Bangkok and
reintegrated with LSD after ibogaine. Got to love that.

What’s funniest is that when you see them talk, it’s obvious Mash doesn’t
believe in any of the 12 step disease of addiction either. When Patrick
goes off on treatment pimps she’s laughing her ass off.

Preston I think ibogaine is whatever you make it. What ever else it does
bro, it does clean you up. I love your writing and I don’t think you
are in a negative space at all so get some ibo. I thought you already
did it, I’ve been on this list for about 1 year now bro and you were
here before me.

Peace out and give it a try bro, see where you are afterward. You are
already in a good head most of the time right now, can’t see how it would
do anything except take it higher.
Curtis

On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:54:54 -0700 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 4/18/03 9:51:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering
and a
bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsof says
that
he was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again.
Sooooo,
what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how
well it
would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large
assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates
for
simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine?
How do
we deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt
with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses, just
do it,’
but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where else
am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe
even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever
actually
get to?)

Preston,

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, than just
cross
ibogaine off as a worthless medication.  No big deal.  And, three
years is a
rather long run from a single ibogaine treatment so let me even
add that.
The key factor however, excluding possibly Patrick, is that ibogaine
time is
time free of craving for dope and that is something just about impossible
to
imagine unless you experience it.  That makes ibogaine something
very special.

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FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: jon ludlam <seraphina@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:24:50 PM EDT
To: “INTERNET:ibogaine@mindvox.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Curtis,
Re: the enter button(Return) to prevent long scripts on the reading of the
messages, if you hold the control key, and hit the letter “T”, it will give
you a word wrap preventing the necessity of horizontal scrolling. I hope
this helps.
Jon

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thanks brett-i mean it
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:24:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tara “WHAT IF”… you are an addict going about “WHAT
IF’ing” about too many things to get clean??? Just a
point, it is a very common theme in addiction (fear)
that keeps people doing what they always did. As for
WHAT IF you cower in a corner from the ibogaine, oh
please stop (for yourself) awfulizing. But I will
answer, OPEN YOUR EYES – that is the simple answer to
your “what if” awfulizing. What if you have a bad
vision, simply OPEN YOUR EYES, blink, turn on the
lights… they will stop. A single blink, even a
closed eye mini-blink type action will end a vision
(instantly) and start a new one. You gotta sink into
it, like sleep or meditation. This isn’t CLOCKWORK
ORANGE where you are going to get flashed picture
after picture of horrible things and can’t stop them.
Nn this case you open your eyes to stop them, not
close them, very very simple. There was at least once
I got tired of vision after vision, so (no comments
from the ibonuts) I actually got up, went in the
living room and watched TV, was “online” once but the
attention span is shot during ibo, hard to focus. Any
distraction will snap someone out of it – by far.
There are very few open eyed optical stuff going on
other than things like trails/tracers, visual artifact
type stuff, not “hallucinations” (on occation you
might get a flash of a vision, the DIAMOND may appear
(I saw it once open eyed trying real hard). It happens
when you sleep – you dream – with your eyes closed,
not open… same with ibogaine, it happens when you
sleep – you dream – with your eyes closed, not open…
only with ibogaine you are now awake during the
dreaming – with your eyes closed… Some people
actually sleep through it, some people have no
visions, that is absolutely a false observation that
ibogaine must do these things to be resolved in a
vision, ibo still works, just as well, visions or not.
Sometimes, some things get resolved during the trip,
sometimes you just come to an understanding without a
vision induced event to reconcile. Bottom line is it
is like sex, you can talk about it all you want, read
all the books, but till you get there and see for
yourself it will simply be a mistery <g>. You could if
you wanted to sit there with your eyes open the whole
time, not a single vision will likely happen – and if
you tried that, odds are great (IMO) that you would
give in and do the vision, when you get there,
ibogaine is very loving for most people (just
disgusting, long and arduous – and if you don’t want
to deal with issues, they do come up). Also, being an
opiate addict, you are likely to have fewer visions
(if any) than someone who is not addicted to an
opiate. They are very much like 4 dimensional dreams.
Visions produce settlement and understanding with
issues in ones life – this is a good thing and yes,
sometimes there are emotional releases (called tears),
sometimes “letting go” can produce tears/emotion – but
again part of it is very detached. This is way outside
any “box” any doctor unfamiliar with ethnogens and
especially ibogaine is remotely likely to understand.

Brett

— Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
i wish i had more time, but i want to heartily thank
you for your informed response. I know nothing
“cures” addiction (i thought i was caught in an NA
hell flashback reading that semantic based
argument); I apologize for accidentally using that
terminology. I am just, naturally, wanting to know
how what I put in my body works. I wouldn’t take
prozac b/c while there were mass testimonials that
it worked, they couldn’t say how, I won’t take
wellbutrin for the same reason. A long introspective
trip that makes you really see how fucked up your
life is seems to be what it does from what i read,
and this, in my eyes, is not enough to convince me:
i am terrified of tripping; what if i spend the
whole time cowering in a corner b/c i just saw a
face morph into that of a former rapist-like my
stepfather-or something? but there is a physical
thing going on. i don’t have to have a definitive
answer; I do have to have a LOT of scientifically
supported hypotheses on how it might work, evidence
that doctors have studied people using this to come
off methadone deeply enough to know what is going on
in the brain and every part of the body: i may have
to campaign to get these studies done, but this
could be the difference between me being able to do
this in a month b/c i can give my father something
(he has declared everything he has read thus far
“flaky” “inconcl;usive” and “hippie bullshit” (he
says the same about many things I am interrested
in), and having to wait a loong time, until I can
save enough money to get to and from canada or
holland and pay for treatment/other expenses. I
don’t care what happens to me; unless they
lobotomize me, i will not go to canada or holland
without going to b.c./vancouver/everywhere;) or
amsterdam and sampling some of the choice greenery.
I think that would be a lovely way to celebrate my
new body chemistry, which will be free of everything
but marijuana, and, only if i continue to have the
life interrupting, totally debilitating siezure-like
panic attacks i have had ever since i finally got
away from the man who beat and raped mky mopther and
i until i was 13: my mother has panic disorder and
agorophobia as well, and she had it before she was
ever abused.  People are very quick to look down on
me for taking benzodiazepines, but i never take more
than is prescribed, they do not get me high; they
either prevent or help stop (HELP stop: it takes me,
too) panic attacks. Why are they so stigmatized?
Would people rather I go on disability because I am
afraid to leave my house and could have one of these
attacks at any time, rendering me unable to work,
drive, marry, raise a family, do anything. I do not
think it is different from insulin to a diabetic and
neither does any other prescribing psychiatrist.
they all know about my hiostory of drug abuse, but
they see the severity of my symptoms, they see my
potential and how well i have performed in the past
(I left UNC Chapel Hill on the Deans List; 4.0- in
my major, 3.6 overall, before drugs, which were a
reaction to my fiancee leaving me and a failed
suicide attempt), and they quickly see that i do not
abuse the medication. Opinions, all. And Brett,
thanks: I think we both are probably misinterpreted
as being intellectual snobs and being condescending
when we mean well. sorry i was hard on ya in that
other letter. Tara

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thanks all from tbgelfling (tara)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:15:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the only scientist doing research with ibogaine on drug addicted
humans in any large number is Mash. Patrick runs all the sites I think
the one that has most of the published articles in full text online is
http://www.ibogaine.net And go to science.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:11:31 -0700 Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
thanks to all who read and reply to my long emails. I am not the
skeptic here, my father is. if i can give him some scientific evidence,

if i can show him which receptors it works on and why it works,
if i can convince him that it is more than just a introspective and
physically painful trip that convinces you to stop (he will never
buy that, and if i had a nickel for all the times i really wanted
to stop: i want to stop: it isn’t as if methadone gets you high,
and pot is the only recreational drug i use, a drug used at the iboga
houses: so basically, dad feels that i have the mental will to quit,

but physically, i can’t. i don’t enjoy standing in line every am
to feel normal.now, based on the testimonials, i can save the money
and get myself there, but that will probably take a year. Dad can
send me there in a month. See my dillema? Love to all, and hope,
Tara

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anyone else getting spammed
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:13:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Use a spam filter. Every time I get a new mailbox it is packed within
days. What’s strange is that when I was on hotmail a long time ago before
I was on rediffmail and moved to hush, I used to get spam within hours
of opening my account never having used it to post anything anywhere.

Email lists are archived and anybody who wants them can ask for the archives,
as soon as you start to post anywhere you will start to receive spam.
That’s the internet.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:24:08 -0700 Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
i just read the thing about the girl who is getting all the spam.
me too: I have like 150 new messages a day. Please tell me these
names are not given out to advertisers!how are they getting to us?
all sorts of illegal “no prescription neccesary” offers for international
maail order drugs-a trigger for many i am sure.

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 19, 2003 at 5:11:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Before doing that my only added advice would be that the key that says
ENTER on your keyboard. Use it once in a while please. It makes it hard
to read your very long messages when they are all in one long sentence.

Thanks and peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 12:06:34 -0700 Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
wrote:
Hey Tara,

I suggest that you write a book about your life! Don’t worry, sooner
or
later you’ll be able to include a few IBO chapters…

;-))

Marko

At 18:35 19.4.2003, you wrote:
thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try
and create
a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily
see how it
works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor
on this
mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the
cause
and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field
medical
questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability
or
whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I
live on the
east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada
run by
marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were
saying
is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about
food? I
have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker
who
dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there,
including
nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but
I have also
heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and
vomiting as
well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium
for
panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of
people
having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that

benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days
after
cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food
and
medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate

about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable,
totally
natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect
the
appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for
anxiety, a
quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into
sleeping,
etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high
times/
cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen,
that
kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and
they
usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness
of the
stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days.
Can you
pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care
of new
patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer?
My
stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3
years, 2
years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being
at age
20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my
arm just to
keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder
around
here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall,
25 yo
female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even
on the few
days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable,
and you
have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems
to be to
take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get

frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs,
and a
kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get
my dose
at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me:
“hey, you
could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take
a lot to
remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had
to miss
more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very
dark
days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible
to get
high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise.
I
know there are other medications that prevent one from getting
high
(Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol,

but
I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just
hope
that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first
time
in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and
get high”
voice in the back of my head. A side note, and a reason I want
to quit: do
you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who
have had
nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication

for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate

addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came
to do.
Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use
of hard
drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal
to issue
take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a
large
chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse
it by
over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will
probably
be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since
kicking
dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life!
The
point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes,
except
on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have
to be
there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday.
A
wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches
out
the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>;
and she
must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the
same
length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn
is
dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean,
they
expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and
dose
until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes,
and they
make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified

nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once
a week,
and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou
ask to
see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases.
Anyone
relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was
younger
(18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped
less than
10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee,

and
I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel
sure I
would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then.
Back
then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school,

on
the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had
good
relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries:
I had a
physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands
of my
stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity

(as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of
my emails
seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another
thing
i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has
panic
disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this
new,
beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter;
the
pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them,
making
them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without
compare
with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night
you
need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click
as sure as
you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is
absolute
magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling
of Gatsby
sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside
that all of
the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles
on the
grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside
that
everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing
I was
suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to
be, simply
being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that
i may
always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been
able to
KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling
of
safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to
get scared
or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild
be well
again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that
using
heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for
a long
time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have

something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds

wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been
able to
numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing
myself. I
know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free,
and as
horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at
the hands
of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and
jumped
out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys;
I also had
no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have
been
worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people.
He
could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something

extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was
naked on
the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say
where and
how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape
of
himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on
tape (I
didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop,
and push
at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out
(he was a
boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch
it,
forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came
over with
another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I
know
you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the
shot, even
though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV,
dazed. He
laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you
can see
your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek,
I
swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and
switched
the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the
duration
(since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t
use
one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and

kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced
and he
said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first.
I
made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended
for
me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you
stupid
bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug
kicked in,
and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands
free,
grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the
wall, and
smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with
it: he
went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing
to climb
down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just
dropped.
I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well
dressed
woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent

spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered
womens
shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and
she just
stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the
back seat
with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first;
I kept
saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the
womens
studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt
ashamed.
This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took
me to
the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother
and
father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence
and
all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get
this guy,
I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop”
and he
knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on
the floor
in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment,

and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured

his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical

ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still
clean of
all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks
is why is
will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide”
your
trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking
out? Its
not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke
a
bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to
any or
all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon,

one
day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies,

such
as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would
be
forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from
within
ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back
our souls
and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to
help
others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them
help
themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe
them our
lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs. Our enemies
are the
very air in disguise”-ani difranco Tbgelfling aka Tara

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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 19, 2003 at 4:41:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do
you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had
nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication
for several years to get take homes? <

At Greenwhich House East in NYC, right near Astor Place, they allowed me
take homes with both ample evidence of THC in my urine, and a with outside
doctor’s dilaudid prescription too. I was going to the clinic only once a
week to pick up my supply, the mex they allowed for take homes there. But it
took a bit over a year, maybe even a little more, to get to that point.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Ustanova Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time

Hey Tara,

I suggest that you write a book about your life! Don’t worry, sooner or
later you’ll be able to include a few IBO chapters…

;-))

Marko

At 18:35 19.4.2003, you wrote:
thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try and create
a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily see how it
works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this
mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause
and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical
questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or
whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I live on the
east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada run by
marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were saying
is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about food? I
have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker who
dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there, including
nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but I have also
heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and vomiting as
well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium for
panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of people
having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that
benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days after
cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food and
medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate
about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable, totally
natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect the
appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for anxiety, a
quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into sleeping,
etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high times/
cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen, that
kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and they
usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness of the
stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days. Can you
pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care of new
patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer? My
stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3 years, 2
years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being at age
20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my arm just to
keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder around
here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall, 25 yo
female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even on the few
days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable, and you
have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems to be to
take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get
frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs, and a
kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get my dose
at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me: “hey, you
could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take a lot to
remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had to miss
more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very dark
days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible to get
high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise. I
know there are other medications that prevent one from getting high
(Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol, but
I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just hope
that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first time
in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and get high”
voice in the back of my head. A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do
you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had
nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication
for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate
addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came to do.
Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use of hard
drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal to issue
take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a large
chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse it by
over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will probably
be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since kicking
dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life! The
point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes, except
on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have to be
there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday. A
wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches out
the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>; and she
must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the same
length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn is
dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean, they
expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and dose
until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes, and they
make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified
nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once a week,
and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou ask to
see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases. Anyone
relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was younger
(18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped less than
10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee, and
I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel sure I
would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then. Back
then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school, on
the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had good
relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries: I had a
physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands of my
stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity
(as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of my emails
seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another thing
i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has panic
disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this new,
beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter; the
pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them, making
them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without compare
with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night you
need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click as sure as
you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is absolute
magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling of Gatsby
sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside that all of
the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles on the
grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside that
everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing I was
suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to be, simply
being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that i may
always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been able to
KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling of
safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to get scared
or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild be well
again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that using
heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for a long
time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have
something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds
wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been able to
numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing myself. I
know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free, and as
horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at the hands
of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and jumped
out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys; I also had
no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have been
worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people. He
could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something
extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was naked on
the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say where and
how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape of
himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on tape (I
didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop, and push
at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out (he was a
boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch it,
forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came over with
another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I know
you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the shot, even
though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV, dazed. He
laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you can see
your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek, I
swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and switched
the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the duration
(since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t use
one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and
kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced and he
said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first. I
made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended for
me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you stupid
bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug kicked in,
and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands free,
grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the wall, and
smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with it: he
went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing to climb
down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just dropped.
I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well dressed
woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent
spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered womens
shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and she just
stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the back seat
with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first; I kept
saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the womens
studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt ashamed.
This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took me to
the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother and
father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence and
all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get this guy,
I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop” and he
knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on the floor
in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment,
and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured
his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical
ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still clean of
all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks is why is
will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide” your
trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking out? Its
not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke a
bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to any or
all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon, one
day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies, such
as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would be
forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from within
ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back our souls
and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to help
others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them help
themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe them our
lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs. Our enemies are the
very air in disguise”-ani difranco Tbgelfling aka Tara

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] anyone else getting spammed
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:24:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i just read the thing about the girl who is getting all the spam. me too: I have like 150 new messages a day. Please tell me these names are not given out to advertisers!how are they getting to us? all sorts of illegal “no prescription neccesary” offers for international maail order drugs-a trigger for many i am sure.

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:dosage, nausea advice requested
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:21:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok, ew. butt doesn’t it hurt? bad pun…i’ve heard kids talk about putting ecstacy up butts, but i don’t do that stuff anymore (hard drugs). are you saying if i put my daily valium pills in my butt they’d work better? seriously: can you take them rectally and get a decidedly fastr result: I ask b/c when i have a strong panic attack, sometimes it is like a siezure; I have had to go to the hospital and ave a valium injection b/c my heart rate was so fast and pills are too slow.

In a message dated 4/3/2003 5:23:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes
My information regarding taking any form of medication by rectum is far more
efficient than orally.  If you take pills and medication orally there is
always possible damage to all the body parts they have to pass through to
get to the appropriate place in the body but if you take them rectally (hope
that is a proper word??)  the ingredients pass into the body faster and with
far less damage to other organs and no you don’t lose any benefits taking
medication that way,.  In fact you should get more benefit from it.
I know that in France they are great believers in administering drugs by
rectum rather than orally and it seems to be a good way of administrating
medication.
Alison
—– Original Message —–
From: “ad astra” <metagrrl@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:15 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:dosage, nausea advice requested

Hi

Thanks for some very helpful advice and encouragement!

A follow-up question about the rectal method of
administration: is that as effective as oral
administration?  I.E. will I still absorb all the
ibogaine and associated alkaloids?  Are there any
known complications from that route of administration
that differ from the oral method?  And finally, does
anybody recall the scene in the movie TRAINSPOTTING in
which Rentboy, having just inserted a couple of opium
suppositories, sarcastically remarks, “For all the
good they did, I may as well have shoved them up my
arse.”?    Hee hee :p

BTW I love this mailing list…however I’m less
enthusastic about the amount of commercial spam that
started coming in immediately after I signed up.  Oh
well, I guess into each life a little spam must fall.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center – File online, calculators, forms, and
more
http://tax.yahoo.com

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:16:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/18/2003 4:05:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Aktionman22 writes:

now that is good…i know that is what i want: to find some piece of the high achieving,hopeful,destined for success 19 year old who fell apart after her fiancee left her. i feel like damaged goods, like she is gone and i will never, ever be whole again. I know I want to be myself again…my Self…perhaps iboga will show me what that is now: the good part.

In a message dated 4/18/03 3:59:07 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

<<  (it is really like “invasion of the
body snatchers, once you take any amount, you will
never be yourself again) >>

correction: “once you take any amount, you will always be
yourself again.”

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] thanks all from tbgelfling (tara)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:11:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks to all who read and reply to my long emails. I am not the skeptic here, my father is. if i can give him some scientific evidence, if i can show him which receptors it works on and why it works, if i can convince him that it is more than just a introspective and physically painful trip that convinces you to stop (he will never buy that, and if i had a nickel for all the times i really wanted to stop: i want to stop: it isn’t as if methadone gets you high, and pot is the only recreational drug i use, a drug used at the iboga houses: so basically, dad feels that i have the mental will to quit, but physically, i can’t. i don’t enjoy standing in line every am to feel normal.now, based on the testimonials, i can save the money and get myself there, but that will probably take a year. Dad can send me there in a month. See my dillema? Love to all, and hope, Tara

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:06:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Tara,

I suggest that you write a book about your life! Don’t worry, sooner or later you’ll be able to include a few IBO chapters…

;-))

Marko

At 18:35 19.4.2003, you wrote:
thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try and create a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily see how it works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I live on the east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada run by marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were saying is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about food? I have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker who dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there, including nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but I have also heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and vomiting as well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium for panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of people having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days after cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food and medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable, totally natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect the appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for anxiety, a quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into sleeping, etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high times/ cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen, that kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and they usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness of the stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days. Can you pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care of new patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer? My stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3 years, 2 years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being at age 20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my arm just to keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder around here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall, 25 yo female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even on the few days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable, and you have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems to be to take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs, and a kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get my dose at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me: “hey, you could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take a lot to remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had to miss more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very dark days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible to get high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise. I know there are other medications that prevent one from getting high (Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol, but I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just hope that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first time in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and get high” voice in the back of my head. A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came to do. Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use of hard drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal to issue take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a large chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse it by over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will probably be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since kicking dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life! The point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes, except on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have to be there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday. A wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches out the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>; and she must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the same length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn is dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean, they expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and dose until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes, and they make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once a week, and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou ask to see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases. Anyone relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was younger (18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped less than 10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee, and I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel sure I would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then. Back then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school, on the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had good relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries: I had a physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands of my stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity (as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of my emails seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another thing i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has panic disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this new, beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter; the pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them, making them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without compare with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night you need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click as sure as you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is absolute magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling of Gatsby sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside that all of the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles on the grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside that everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing I was suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to be, simply being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that i may always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been able to KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling of safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to get scared or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild be well again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that using heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for a long time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been able to numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing myself. I know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free, and as horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at the hands of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and jumped out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys; I also had no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have been worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people. He could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was naked on the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say where and how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape of himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on tape (I didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop, and push at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out (he was a boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch it, forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came over with another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I know you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the shot, even though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV, dazed. He laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you can see your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek, I swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and switched the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the duration (since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t use one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced and he said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first. I made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended for me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you stupid bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug kicked in, and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands free, grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the wall, and smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with it: he went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing to climb down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just dropped. I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well dressed woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered womens shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and she just stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the back seat with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first; I kept saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the womens studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt ashamed. This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took me to the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother and father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence and all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get this guy, I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop” and he knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on the floor in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment, and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still clean of all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks is why is will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide” your trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking out? Its not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke a bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to any or all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon, one day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies, such as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would be forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from within ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back our souls and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to help others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them help themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe them our lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs. Our enemies are the very air in disguise”-ani difranco Tbgelfling aka Tara

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] thanks brett-i mean it
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:02:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wish i had more time, but i want to heartily thank you for your informed response. I know nothing “cures” addiction (i thought i was caught in an NA hell flashback reading that semantic based argument); I apologize for accidentally using that terminology. I am just, naturally, wanting to know how what I put in my body works. I wouldn’t take prozac b/c while there were mass testimonials that it worked, they couldn’t say how, I won’t take wellbutrin for the same reason. A long introspective trip that makes you really see how fucked up your life is seems to be what it does from what i read, and this, in my eyes, is not enough to convince me: i am terrified of tripping; what if i spend the whole time cowering in a corner b/c i just saw a face morph into that of a former rapist-like my stepfather-or something? but there is a physical thing going on. i don’t have to have a definitive answer; I do have to have a LOT of scientifically supported hypotheses on how it might work, evidence that doctors have studied people using this to come off methadone deeply enough to know what is going on in the brain and every part of the body: i may have to campaign to get these studies done, but this could be the difference between me being able to do this in a month b/c i can give my father something (he has declared everything he has read thus far “flaky” “inconcl;usive” and “hippie bullshit” (he says the same about many things I am interrested in), and having to wait a loong time, until I can save enough money to get to and from canada or holland and pay for treatment/other expenses. I don’t care what happens to me; unless they lobotomize me, i will not go to canada or holland without going to b.c./vancouver/everywhere;) or amsterdam and sampling some of the choice greenery. I think that would be a lovely way to celebrate my new body chemistry, which will be free of everything but marijuana, and, only if i continue to have the life interrupting, totally debilitating siezure-like panic attacks i have had ever since i finally got away from the man who beat and raped mky mopther and i until i was 13: my mother has panic disorder and agorophobia as well, and she had it before she was ever abused.  People are very quick to look down on me for taking benzodiazepines, but i never take more than is prescribed, they do not get me high; they either prevent or help stop (HELP stop: it takes me, too) panic attacks. Why are they so stigmatized? Would people rather I go on disability because I am afraid to leave my house and could have one of these attacks at any time, rendering me unable to work, drive, marry, raise a family, do anything. I do not think it is different from insulin to a diabetic and neither does any other prescribing psychiatrist. they all know about my hiostory of drug abuse, but they see the severity of my symptoms, they see my potential and how well i have performed in the past (I left UNC Chapel Hill on the Deans List; 4.0- in my major, 3.6 overall, before drugs, which were a reaction to my fiancee leaving me and a failed suicide attempt), and they quickly see that i do not abuse the medication. Opinions, all. And Brett, thanks: I think we both are probably misinterpreted as being intellectual snobs and being condescending when we mean well. sorry i was hard on ya in that other letter. Tara

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 2:35:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey brett, newsflash: ibogaine is illegal in the vast majority of places from which these people are writing. marc emery ships pot seeds worldwide: to places where it is illegal to grow pot. wanna tell me the difference between offering to send pot seeds through the mail and someone desperate simply asking about a possibility? and don’t give me some red tape answer about the difference between seeds and plants or some crazy law: morally, theoretically: go ahead and consider the seeds pot, as they will be, and answer. I am sure if he finds a contact, he will take measures to protect himself, he won’t have them sent to his name or house-thats what po boxes are for, and i am sure he won’t post those instructions on the list. Be nice to a person if ur trying to get them out of trouble, don’t act superior.

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 9:43:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sat, 19 Apr 2003 Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:

i am only replying b/c i used to be a junkie and my x fiancee’s name is Greg. Were you a junkie/ See, I have been told to use iboga to get off of methadone, which is used for heroin addiction. I want to know more about how this stuff works: how can it cure heroin addiction and amphetamine addiction? Why aren’t there chemical explainations from doctors on here about how it works? How it WORKS, not the side effects. Tbgelfling

There are a lot of papers on Howard’s site, www.ibogaine.org, that explain
how it works.

Also, you might want to check out the paper I wrote on ibogaine; it’s at
userpages.umbc.ed/~jfreed1/Ibogaine.html

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From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] long…but read it if you have time
Date: April 19, 2003 at 12:35:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try and create a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily see how it works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I live on the east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada run by marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were saying is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about food? I have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker who dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there, including nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but I have also heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and vomiting as well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium for panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of people having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days after cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food and medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable, totally natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect the appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for anxiety, a quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into sleeping, etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high times/ cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen, that kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and they usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness of the stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days. Can you pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care of new patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer? My stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3 years, 2 years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being at age 20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my arm just to keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder around here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall, 25 yo female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even on the few days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable, and you have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems to be to take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs, and a kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get my dose at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me: “hey, you could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take a lot to remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had to miss more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very dark days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible to get high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise. I know there are other medications that prevent one from getting high (Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol, but I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just hope that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first time in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and get high” voice in the back of my head.
A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came to do. Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use of hard drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal to issue take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a large chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse it by over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will probably be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since kicking dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life! The point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes, except on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have to be there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday. A wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches out the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>; and she must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the same length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn is dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean, they expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and dose until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes, and they make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once a week, and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou ask to see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases. Anyone relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was younger (18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped less than 10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee, and I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel sure I would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then. Back then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school, on the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had good relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries: I had a physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands of my stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity (as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of my emails seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another thing i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has panic disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this new, beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter; the pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them, making them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without compare with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night you need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click as sure as you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is absolute magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling of Gatsby sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside that all of the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles on the grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside that everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing I was suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to be, simply being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that i may always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been able to KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling of safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to get scared or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild be well again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that using heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for a long time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been able to numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing myself. I know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free, and as horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at the hands of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and jumped out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys; I also had no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have been worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people. He could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was naked on the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say where and how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape of himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on tape (I didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop, and push at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out (he was a boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch it, forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came over with another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I know you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the shot, even though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV, dazed. He laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you can see your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek, I swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and switched the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the duration (since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t use one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced and he said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first. I made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended for me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you stupid bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug kicked in, and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands free, grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the wall, and smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with it: he went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing to climb down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just dropped. I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well dressed woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered womens shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and she just stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the back seat with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first; I kept saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the womens studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt ashamed. This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took me to the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother and father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence and all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get this guy, I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop” and he knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on the floor in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment, and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still clean of all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks is why is will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide” your trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking out? Its not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke a bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to any or all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon, one day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies, such as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would be forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from within ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back our souls and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to help others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them help themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe them our lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs. Our enemies are the very air in disguise”-ani difranco
Tbgelfling aka Tara

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 9:47:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Tbgelfling

” I
have been told to use iboga to get off of methadone,
which is used for heroin addiction.

It is used for ANY addiction – it is USED for
methadone AND it is used for heroin – or alcohol,
speed, coke…

I want to know
more about how this stuff works:

So does everyone else.

how can it cure
heroin addiction and amphetamine addiction? ”

It does not cure anything.

“Why
aren’t there chemical explainations from doctors on
here about how it works?

There are many “explainations” or theories, just that
none of them are “THE ANSWER” of why ibogaine works.
But hey, they DO KNOW where ibogaine works (mostly
anyway) the problem is it works on the brain – all of
it (basically), every single receptor site in the
nervous system has showed ibogaine activity, nothing
else does that. The other problem is we don’t know
what most of the brain does, but we do know ibogaine
is working there…

<How it WORKS, not the side
effects. Tbgelfling”

Many drugs in the PDR are prescribed, sold, used and
they don’t know why/how they work either… Wellbutrin
is a good example, they don’t know – not exactly, same
with ibogaine, they don’t know. My 2 cents is ibogaine
does not work in 1 place, or 2, or 3… ie ibogaine is
an opiate agnoist but if you block that, ibogaine
still works. It is not the fault of the ibogaine that
humans don’t understand it, it is absolutely PROVEN
that ibogaine works – by “doctors” (see numerous
studies).
It is an absolute fact that ibogaine does what it
does, unless maybe the mice, rats, dogs, cats,
monkeys… gave into the placebo effect in mass with
many different drugs in many different studies.

So, your question about how can it cure heroin
addiction and methadone addiction – answer is it
doesn’t, it doesn’t “cure” anything. It interrupts
physical addictions (again, mileage varies), any
physical addiction that I know of. One problem with
your question and giving an answer is THEY DO NOT KNOW
WHAT CAUSES PHYSICAL ADDICTION IN THE FIRST PLACE so
there is little way they would know how ibogaine
works.
Ibogaine is likely to shed light on why/how addiction
works, since it is the ONLY substance that does what
it does. Absolutely nothing else works on coke, dope,
speed, alcohol… and then it is better than any
treatments for those addictions – ie UROD for opioid
addictions,  antibuse for alcohol… People are often
in mysery with those treatments, with ibo (though it
can take some time/bumps and IBO is YUCK stuff) it is
not like that. People don’t get high after ibogaine
cause they don’t want to, not cause they have a
naltrexone implant in them (and often go nuts shooting
through it or cutting it out) – plus it=bogaine alters
the response (to many drugs of abuse) that people tend
to like them less – I can say that is a fact from my
own personal experience.

At ibogaine.org or medline you will be able to review
a number of theories and knowledge about ibogaine as
well as addiction.

If you are in doubt mode, I assure you from personal
experience it is very effective as long as I did my
part. Ah, but you can say that with any modality of
treatment, right? Sort of, you want to quit, you quit,
right? Ibogaine makes it far easier, I have to say I
have accomplished more than I was able to
(previously), with ibo I am able to do more. SO, gone
is the coke, gone is the alcohol, no more nicotine for
me thank you, I can and do safely take narcotic pain
meds… Not all at once, it is not exactly a switch –
take ibogaine and you are cured/a different person
(totally), it was in fits and starts, 2 steps forward,
1 step back – just a whole lot faster and easier then
traditional methods of quitting – and little to no
cravings/greatly reduced cravings. The struggle was
gone and replaced with a challenge and new
opportunities, the HUGE mountain was but a foot hill,
for the first time (rather instantly, several days), I
went from a drug addict (just off a nice run, I was in
great shape) to utter happiness that I don’t remember
ever feeling.

Here, read

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/

Plug in ibogaine and after a couple hundred
peer-reviewed studies you will A) still not know how
ibogaine works cause no-one knows and B) know that it
does work. Or read at ibogaine.org, you can also read
the ibogaine story at cures-not-wars.org (or order a
copy from Dana), ibogaine.co.uk or a number of other
sites. READ READ READ all you can – and take ANY
single statement with a couple grains of salt –
everyone has their own experience and any one study
(done 1 way) may not show the true value of ibogaine –
specially if that is the intent…

Brett

— Tbgelfling@aol.com wrote:
i am only replying b/c i used to be a junkie and my
x fiancee’s name is Greg. Were you a junkie/ See, I
have been told to use iboga to get off of methadone,
which is used for heroin addiction. I want to know
more about how this stuff works: how can it cure
heroin addiction and amphetamine addiction? Why
aren’t there chemical explainations from doctors on
here about how it works? How it WORKS, not the side
effects. Tbgelfling

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 12:34:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks paul! I will to that site, for sure, and then I will try and create a little synopsis to post on this list so new people can easily see how it works. I think people would really feel better to see a doctor on this mailing list..I wonder if anyone knows someone sympathetic to the cause and knowledgable who would be willing to join the list and field medical questions. We can all agree that he doesn’t hold any liability or whatever. I’d also love to hear about any experiences. Since I live on the east coast of the USA, I plan to go to the iboga house in canada run by marc emery as soon as I save the money. Is this the place you were saying is free???So if I get up there, he’ll take care of me? What about food? I have heard that the nausea part is pretty bad, and I am a big puker who dehydrates easily. I know that there are no other drugs there, including nicotiene (i need to quit that stupid nasty habit anyhow), but I have also heard that marijuana is used medically to treat the nausea and vomiting as well as anxiety (I have taken between 5 and 30 milligrams of valium for panic disorder for over a year now, every day: I have heard of people having siezures from abrupt withdrawal, i have also heard that benzodiazepine withdrawal doesn’t get to its worst until 14 days after cessation of the medication. Would I need extra money for food and medically monitored pot<i am not a weedhead, but I do feel passionate about it politically, and I do think that it is i very valuable, totally natural, alternative treatment for physical ailments that affect the appetite, as well as an alternative psychological treatment for anxiety, a quick way to fend off a panic attack, a way to assist one into sleeping, etc. I mean, this is marc emery, seed guru in almost every high times/ cannabis culture magazine, right?> I have also heard, and seen, that kicking methadone can make a person sick for up to a month, and they usually never feel right again. For these reasons, the shortness of the stay scares me. They said my stay would be something like 10 days. Can you pay or offer services of some kind (gardening,cooking, taking care of new patients, something) if you feel you need to stay, say a week longer? My stay was based on this info: 120 milligrams of methadone for 3 years, 2 years of off and on heroin use prior to that; my first use being at age 20; my last use being at 22 (I was putting $250.00 a day in my arm just to keep well: tar, not powder: it was much stronger than the powder around here: like two or three times as strong), 95 pounds, 5 feet tall, 25 yo female: no heroin use since I have been on methadone: not even on the few days I havent made to the clinic.One day is just uncomfortable, and you have to accept that you wont sleep; the best thing to do seems to be to take my valium, but to have someone around to be sure I don’t get frustrated with the sleeplessness and swallow 5, have kind nugs, and a kind friend to remind me at 2 am that I’ll be able to go and get my dose at 6 am when my brain starts acting like an addict telling me: “hey, you could buy a bag and actually feel it, you know”: it doesn’t take a lot to remind me it isn’t worth it, but if something happened and I had to miss more than one days dose, I’d be very scared I would use (on very dark days,it has been very helpful that methadone makes it impossible to get high: early on, there were days where I may have relapsed otherwise. I know there are other medications that prevent one from getting high (Rivea?), in a similar way to the way that anabuse works with alcohol, but I don’t want to go there. I don’t want to get high anymore: I just hope that the iboga experience will help me with that “this is the first time in 3 years that i could theoretically go out and buy a bag and get high” voice in the back of my head.
A side note, and a reason I want to quit: do you all face similar problrms, or do any clinics allow those who have had nothing but THC and one type of approved and monitored nerve medication for several years to get take homes? I mean, methadone treats opiate addiction: if you quit opiates, then you have done what you came to do. Granted, evidence of cocaine/amphetamine use or other chronic use of hard drugs should be seen as a problem, and I can understand refusal to issue take homes to these people on any regular basis, as there is a large chance that the medication would not be safe or they would abuse it by over dosing–and then overdosing. I do no hard drugs: Iboga will probably be the most powerful drug other than methadone I have done since kicking dope. Hell, I am scared because I am scared to trip in real life! The point here was that because i smoke pot, i cannot get take homes, except on sunday, as the clinic is closed on sundays. otherwise, i have to be there between 6 and 10 on weekdays, and between 7 and 9 on Saturday. A wait of over an hour in line is not uncommon. The line often stretches out the door: the regular nurse is slow just to be mean <yes, really>; and she must be mean to the new people, because despite the fact that the same length line runs 4 times as fast when someone other than carolyn is dosing, everyone but carolyn ends up quitting very soon. I mean, they expect these women to get to work at 5 am every day, stand up and dose until 10:30, deal with taking vital signs, etc, of new intakes, and they make less money than I do waiting tables. Carolyn is the most qualified nurse, but even she is not a RN. We have a doctor wh comes in once a week, and basically just asks you how you are feeling either when ypou ask to see heror once a year, and she always suggests dose increases. Anyone relate? Also,as mentioned, I am scared to trip now. When I was younger (18-20) I did LSD, mushrooms, and mescaline; ut I have tripped less than 10 times in my life, every time I did it was at UNC with my X fiancee, and I have not donne it since we broke up 4 years ago, because I feel sure I would have a bad trip due to all I have been through since then. Back then, I was still “on track”: in a great college right out of school, on the deans list, i’d never stolen from friends or family, i had good relationships: by no means was life always a bowl of cherries: I had a physically,verbally, and sexually abusive childhood at the hands of my stepfather, and I inherited a lot of my mothers emotiomanal sensitivity (as well as her verbal ability: and tendency to use it…all of my emails seem to be novellas, and I talk all the time! Nervousness is another thing i inherited, which is probably why we talk so much: my mom has panic disorder and agaorophobia, too. But being with my fiancee in this new, beautiful setting (Chapel Hill is a winter wonderland in the winter; the pine trees froze and created prisms when the sun shone upon them, making them look like peacock feather trees, the fall colors are without compare with all the old oaks on campus; there is a time, that first night you need a blanket on your bed, when you can feel the seasons click as sure as you hear the leaves crunch under your feet, and spring there is absolute magic: everything seems to be in bloom, and there is a feeling of Gatsby sized hope in the air that makes you so reluctant to go inside that all of the studying, frisbee playing, sleeping, smoking, drumming circles on the grasy campus would make you think there was magic in the air outside that everyone was trying to breathe in before the sun went down), knowing I was suceeding in the place I’d spent my high school years hoping to be, simply being in love for the first time, a love so pure and true that i may always believe he is my soulmate, as no other man has ever been able to KNOW me the way he did; all of this gave me an unshakable feeling of safety: the setting was jkust copasetic, as\nd if I started to get scared or “lost”, I’d just lock eyes with greg for a bit, and all wouild be well again. As long as I was with him, I was safe. It is no wonder that using heroin came after a suicide attempt following his leaving me; for a long time I did not want to live, and if Ihad to, I felt I had to have something that gave me the power to go through the motions. It sounds wierd, but in a way, all of those drugs saved me: had I not been able to numb myself out, I would have found a way to succeed at killing myself. I know i could have died, and i am very lucky to be disease free, and as horrible as the kidnapping and rape i endured over a weekend at the hands of a dealer until i knocked him out with a fire extinguisher and jumped out of a 2 story window (he’d locked me in and hidden the keys; I also had no clue when or if he’d wake up) breaking my ankle, it could have been worse. H could have killed me, as could have any number of people. He could have given me AIDS, but he didn’t: the sick bastard put something extra in my bag that knocked me oout cold; when I came to I was naked on the couch with my hands tied behind my back; I’d rather not say where and how i was bleeding, and he was sitting there watching a video tape of himself raping me as I was unconscious. I saw myself wake up on tape (I didn’t remember any of it, so I was surprised) and say no, stop, and push at him; he answered me with a backhand that knocked me back out (he was a boxer). I noticed that my head was throbbing and tried to touch it, forgetting my hands were tied. He noticed I was awake and came over with another shot; one for me and one for him, premade. He was like”I know you’re sick; here”. I knew there would be more than dope in the shot, even though the syringes looked the same. I kept staring at the TV, dazed. He laughed and said “let me get that blood out of your eyes so you can see your little movie! When he left the room to go and get a towek, I swiftly  got up, turned around so i could use my tied hands, and switched the needles. I noticed in the tape that he used a condom for the duration (since he knew he had AIDS, he knew that if he got caught and didn’t use one, he’d be charged with attempted murder as well as rape and kidnapping/assault. He came back, roughly wiped my face; I winced and he said, “OK, lets do these shots.” Luck was on my side: he went first. I made sure I was out of his reach, as he knew it was the shot intended for me within 5 seconmds of shooting. He looked at me and said, “you stupid bitch”, and got up too come nd do god knows what, but the drug kicked in, and he fell over unconscious on the spot. I managed to get my hands free, grabbed the video tape, grabbed a fire extinguisher off of the wall, and smashed a window. He woke up, so I smashed him in the face with it: he went out again. I couldn’t find the keys and there was nothing to climb down, so I tried to dangle myself over the edge, and then I just dropped. I hobbled out to the street on my broken ankle, and soon a well dressed woman in her 40s stopped. I was scared to death, but some benevolent spirit was watching, because she was the director of the battered womens shelter here!! I started trying to tell her what happened, and she just stopped me, put me in her car, drove to a vacant lot, got in the back seat with me, and held me while I cried. I wouldn’t let her at first; I kept saying “don’t touch me, I’m dirty, i’m dirty”. After all of the womens studies classes and with all of my feminist beliefs, I still felt ashamed. This woman was a godsend, a former rape survivor herself. She took me to the police station, helped facilitate conversation with my mother and father, they took me to the hospital and started looking for evidence and all-suddenly i came out of my daze and realized we needed to get this guy, I had the deed taped, including the part where I say “no” “stop” and he knocks me out, and there was a good chance he was still lying on the floor in his apartment. I gave the tape to the cops, with much embarrassment, and they went to his house, where he was still unconscious: I fractured his skull (!!), and he was still under the influence of the surgical ansthetic he had used on me. He died of AIDS in jail. I am still clean of all STDs. This is one of many ugly stories: fear of flashbacks is why is will not trip. Are the people at the iboga house equipped to “guide” your trip and keep ypu, to the best of their ability, from freaking out? Its not like, in that setting, I can go, OK, I’m buggin,. time to smoke a bowl. I know I have said a lot: if anyone wants to t\respond to any or all, please do. We are sisters and brothers bound by a common demon, one day to be bound by  a light generated by our souls and soul allies, such as marc and sara (amsterdam), who, when we thought our souls would be forever possessed by this demon,showed us undiscovered tools from within ourselves and from the earth to defeat this demon and take back our souls and selves. Once that is done, it will be our responsibility to help others defeat the demon, to tell them about ibogane and help them help themselves. “We can’t afford to let others come to harm; we owe them our lives.Each breath is recyled from someone elses lungs. Our enemies are the very air in disguise”-ani difranco
Tbgelfling aka Tara

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 11:04:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/19/03 3:35:57 AM, Tbgelfling@aol.com writes:

i am only replying b/c i used to be a junkie and my x fiancee’s name is
Greg. Were you a junkie/ See, I have been told to use iboga to get off
of methadone, which is used for heroin addiction. I want to know more about
how this stuff works: how can it cure heroin addiction and amphetamine
addiction? Why aren’t there chemical explainations from doctors on here
about how it works? How it WORKS, not the side effects. Tbgelfling

You can go to <www.ibogaine.org/alkaloids.html> to get an idea of how it
works.  For more updated technical information go to medline
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/> and type in the search term “ibogaine”
or “ibogaine mechanisms action” and see what happens.

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 11:57:29 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Greg,

Advertising your intent to do illegal activities on a
public list isn’t a good idea, unless you like jail or
are a cop. IMO, if you are an addict trying to stop
drugs then stop doing addict things in addict fashion,
in this case it is reckless.

Brett

— Greg Peterkin <eyespine@va.com.au> wrote:
Hello to all list members from a new subscriber in
South Australia.
Im hoping to hear of a few other Australian
‘enthusiasts’ existing,
and info as to whether any of them have had
successes obtaining
ibogaine here in Australia.
Recent posting to this list have mentioned the
concept of
successfully concealing hcl in a letter and posting
it covertly.
Does anyone reading this list have access to hcl and
feel willing to
send me a letter here in Australia?  I am quite
prepared to send
money to cover the costs, of course.
It is in regards to predicaments like mine (in
making this request )
that I am once again reminded of Australia’s
isolation ( both
geographically and in terms of population ) from the
rest of the
world.  There seems a great distance between myself
and virtually
anyone else who has ever even heard of ibogaine, let
alone someone
who might be able to get hold of some.
I have been researching and hunting for a means of
access to hcl for
some time now, but have repeatedly come up against a
wall of high
expense and/or total unavailability.
I’ve been using Meth too regularly for about 7
years, now and am well
& truly fed up with it, but it still retains an
inexplicable hold on
me as an emotional regulator (or “flatliner”).
I’m fully standing at the “crossroads”, looking at
the ibogain
‘signpost’, but , as yet, I still cannot see that
destination.
Can anyone offer some assistance of any sort?
If so, email me privately and we might be able to
work out a safe
plan of action for transporting an hcl dose and the
respective
financial returns.
South Australia is an excellent place to access
pounds & pounds of
Cannabis in a decriminalized form, but if you aren’t
hunting for Wine
or Weed, then it’s somewhat of a frontier down here.
Thumbs up to all who are on this list. Ibogain needs
more exposure,
and from what ive been reading on this lists
postings, there are some
very well intended and worthy ambassadors for
ibogaine communicating
here.
‘Hoping to hear back from anyone, anywhere…
cheers

Greg. <eyespine>

—- eyespine —–
Australian Music & Multimedia
real-time music interactives
http://eyespine.va.com.au
…don’t just listen…

__________________________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
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From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:57:18 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 03:35:12 -0400

i am only replying b/c i used to be a junkie and my x fiancee’s name is Greg. Were you a junkie/ See, I have been told to use iboga to get off of methadone, which is used for heroin addiction. I want to know more about how this stuff works: how can it cure heroin addiction and amphetamine addiction? Why aren’t there chemical explainations from doctors on here about how it works? How it WORKS, not the side effects. Tbgelfling

Go to www.ibogaine.org and www.ibogaine.co.uk and spend a few days trawling through the avalanche of data that will tell you why:

1)How ibogaine can be used for methadone dependency
2)How it can “cure” heroin and amphetamine addiction
3)All the current theories on how and why ibogaine “works” at a neurochemical level.

Happy Hunting.

Paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Surf together with new Shared Browsing http://join.msn.com/?page=features/browse&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=74&DI=1059

From: Tbgelfling@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 3:35:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i am only replying b/c i used to be a junkie and my x fiancee’s name is Greg. Were you a junkie/ See, I have been told to use iboga to get off of methadone, which is used for heroin addiction. I want to know more about how this stuff works: how can it cure heroin addiction and amphetamine addiction? Why aren’t there chemical explainations from doctors on here about how it works? How it WORKS, not the side effects. Tbgelfling

From: Greg Peterkin <eyespine@va.com.au>
Subject: [ibogaine] a few grains sprinkled through an envelope….(‘here’s hoping from Australia..)
Date: April 19, 2003 at 2:53:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello to all list members from a new subscriber in South Australia.
Im hoping to hear of a few other Australian ‘enthusiasts’ existing,
and info as to whether any of them have had successes obtaining
ibogaine here in Australia.
Recent posting to this list have mentioned the concept of
successfully concealing hcl in a letter and posting it covertly.
Does anyone reading this list have access to hcl and feel willing to
send me a letter here in Australia?  I am quite prepared to send
money to cover the costs, of course.
It is in regards to predicaments like mine (in making this request )
that I am once again reminded of Australia’s isolation ( both
geographically and in terms of population ) from the rest of the
world.  There seems a great distance between myself and virtually
anyone else who has ever even heard of ibogaine, let alone someone
who might be able to get hold of some.
I have been researching and hunting for a means of access to hcl for
some time now, but have repeatedly come up against a wall of high
expense and/or total unavailability.
I’ve been using Meth too regularly for about 7 years, now and am well
& truly fed up with it, but it still retains an inexplicable hold on
me as an emotional regulator (or “flatliner”).
I’m fully standing at the “crossroads”, looking at the ibogain
‘signpost’, but , as yet, I still cannot see that destination.
Can anyone offer some assistance of any sort?
If so, email me privately and we might be able to work out a safe
plan of action for transporting an hcl dose and the respective
financial returns.
South Australia is an excellent place to access pounds & pounds of
Cannabis in a decriminalized form, but if you aren’t hunting for Wine
or Weed, then it’s somewhat of a frontier down here.
Thumbs up to all who are on this list. Ibogain needs more exposure,
and from what ive been reading on this lists postings, there are some
very well intended and worthy ambassadors for ibogaine communicating
here.
‘Hoping to hear back from anyone, anywhere…
cheers

Greg. <eyespine>

—- eyespine —–
Australian Music & Multimedia
real-time music interactives
http://eyespine.va.com.au
…don’t just listen…

From: “paul jackamo” <pauljackamo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 7:26:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PrestonPeet wrote :

Anyway, I’m babbling rather publicly here from my freezing cold NYC
apartment, but I’m genuinely curious, utterly broke, in debt and
passportless, and careening towards another of those weird often nasty
crossroads things at a speed that gets more difficult to keep a handle on as
the crossroads loom closer.
argh. my brain and soul hurt, almost as much as the rest of me.

Pete > Ive often checked out the stuff at drugwar.com and you strike me as an intelligent and smart dude.I think its no accident that you are starting to wonder about ibogaine at this point in your life (you were obviously aware of it before now).
I think for some of us, (not all), ibogaine “appears” (or becomes an option we may have once discounted) when we have reached the end of the road or rather the end of all roads.
I was interested that you used the crossroads metaphor because that is exactly what ibogaine opens up: “a crossroads”, where what once seemed like a fixed and closed loop of endless repitition of thought, feeling and action unfolds itself onto a plane of infinite possibility and choice : (its interesting that the bwiti often speak of encountering a crossroads under the influence of iboga and the metaphor of the crossroads forms the backbone of african and western magical traditions, but thats another story…)
Anyway Peet, its a win/win situation with ibogaine, if the protocols are followed – you WILL benefit from taking it, you will even find benefits that you hadnt considered prior to its ingestion.
You may find that you still need opiate based meds for pain management, you may find that other non-opioid based treatments are opened up to you (who knows what you may find!)
If i was based in amerika and in your position peet, i would seriously get in contact with iboga therapy house as the treatment is free(cool!)
(being broke is often(not always) an adjunct of reaching the end of the line!)-get your passport renewed and fly out.
(nope, this aint an advert for i.t.h. – i dont know the guys, i just think that anyone offering ibogaine therapy for free deserves huge applause – if some guys in europe hadnt sent me ibogaine hcl at cost then there is no way as a street junky, i could have afforded any in-house treatment)

and keep the tape recorder handy! – “bWop-bWap-iiiYYYbbbbOOO…..when will this shit ever fucking end -aaggghhh!” 😉

take care

paul.

_________________________________________________________________
Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 18, 2003 at 7:05:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett,

I am 150 lbs, not a very big guy. I am going to the
hospital tomorrow for an ECG, and bloodcount required
for applying to the treatment center in Vancouver. I’ve
only been using these drugs, (intraveneously) for a
little while, but I’ve been through enough hell with it
to know it can only get worse, and I want to get off
this shit.

Amon,

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years………

Ah, I remember those dilaudid speed balls well, fun
huh?  Anyways, you didn’t say your weight (to do a
calculation) but 3 grams total should do it with room
to spare.

. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.

Something like that though I would strongly suggest
waiting longer than a week or two (ie a month
minimum), specially when using HCL (hits harder). It
is however whatever it takes, if you dose and are
going to use/do use after, do another dose… I didn’t
need a 2nd dose (did 18mg/kg HCL for coke/alcohol) and
was just find and dandy for about 6 months. I also
could not imagine another dose 1-2 weeks (or even
several months!) later and would flatly have refused.
I mean I was “why, drug problem, what drug problem,
that is nasty, look at the pretty pink clouds, wow
life is wonderful don’t you think…” for months. I
was slammed, Indra does not do it quite the same way.
Indra (or another extract/root bark) is a bit softer
product and it will come down to actually using less
ibo per tx in most cases – and still quite effective.
So, no, I would generally advise against double dosing
a week-2 apart using HCL and would like to wait longer
for Indra –  yeah, if you can and all that.

Now as for the physical-psychological addiction, yes
it is something like that (fuzzy lines sometimes) with
dose 1 and dose 2 IN AN OPIATE ADDICT for the most
part. Bottom line no matter how you slice it is if you
are ready and willing, ibogaine will make you much
more able, but it won’t do it for you. Higher and
repeated doses are more effective than smaller or
single doses – not that they don’t work.

Brett

I do not meet the criteria to go to
ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in
Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

AMON,

— AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there?
I
would like two doses if possible.

It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could
say 1
gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or
1/2
gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which
is
subject to a number of variables. What it comes
down
to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is
it
addiction or is it for other reasons? The other
end of
it is you, some people require more, some require
less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not
trying to
split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to
it
than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.
More
typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
ballpark ranges for single dose administration.

25mg/kg max for a man
20mg/kg max for a woman
20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo,
laam)
15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
12-15mg for other addictions
8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior
tonic…

20% less for women by weight.

Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different
versions
but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
“dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you
don’t
know exactly till you get there and do it.

Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
“dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you
like a
ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er)
version
of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine
(and
there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going
from
there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
procedure not to be taken lightly, done
incorrectly
ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.

Brett

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have
hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is
is
that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be
intercepted,
and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately.
This
is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
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=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 18, 2003 at 6:47:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amon,

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years………

Ah, I remember those dilaudid speed balls well, fun
huh?  Anyways, you didn’t say your weight (to do a
calculation) but 3 grams total should do it with room
to spare.

. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.

Something like that though I would strongly suggest
waiting longer than a week or two (ie a month
minimum), specially when using HCL (hits harder). It
is however whatever it takes, if you dose and are
going to use/do use after, do another dose… I didn’t
need a 2nd dose (did 18mg/kg HCL for coke/alcohol) and
was just find and dandy for about 6 months. I also
could not imagine another dose 1-2 weeks (or even
several months!) later and would flatly have refused.
I mean I was “why, drug problem, what drug problem,
that is nasty, look at the pretty pink clouds, wow
life is wonderful don’t you think…” for months. I
was slammed, Indra does not do it quite the same way.
Indra (or another extract/root bark) is a bit softer
product and it will come down to actually using less
ibo per tx in most cases – and still quite effective.
So, no, I would generally advise against double dosing
a week-2 apart using HCL and would like to wait longer
for Indra –  yeah, if you can and all that.

Now as for the physical-psychological addiction, yes
it is something like that (fuzzy lines sometimes) with
dose 1 and dose 2 IN AN OPIATE ADDICT for the most
part. Bottom line no matter how you slice it is if you
are ready and willing, ibogaine will make you much
more able, but it won’t do it for you. Higher and
repeated doses are more effective than smaller or
single doses – not that they don’t work.

Brett

I do not meet the criteria to go to
ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in
Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

AMON,

— AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there?
I
would like two doses if possible.

It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could
say 1
gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or
1/2
gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which
is
subject to a number of variables. What it comes
down
to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is
it
addiction or is it for other reasons? The other
end of
it is you, some people require more, some require
less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not
trying to
split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to
it
than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.
More
typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
ballpark ranges for single dose administration.

25mg/kg max for a man
20mg/kg max for a woman
20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo,
laam)
15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
12-15mg for other addictions
8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior
tonic…

20% less for women by weight.

Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different
versions
but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
“dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you
don’t
know exactly till you get there and do it.

Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
“dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you
like a
ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er)
version
of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine
(and
there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going
from
there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
procedure not to be taken lightly, done
incorrectly
ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.

Brett

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have
hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is
is
that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be
intercepted,
and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately.
This
is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 5:51:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh, and I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment about opiates and pain Howard, that’s for sure.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too

In a message dated 4/18/03 9:51:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

> The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering and a
>bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsof says that
>he was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
>experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again. Sooooo,
>what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how well it
>would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large
>assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates for
>simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine? How do
>we deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt with this
>situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses, just do it,’
>but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where else am I
>gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe even get
>some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever actually
>get to?)

Preston,

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, than just cross
ibogaine off as a worthless medication.  No big deal.  And, three years is a
rather long run from a single ibogaine treatment so let me even add that.
The key factor however, excluding possibly Patrick, is that ibogaine time is
time free of craving for dope and that is something just about impossible to
imagine unless you experience it.  That makes ibogaine something very special.

In my opinion there is nothing better than opiates for pain.  If you are in
pain take opiates if you like.  However, ibogaine may be useful there also.
Pain is a complex phenomena including anxiety related issues.
Neurobiologically, pain includes many mechanisms of action in many systems
throughout the body as does chemical dependence.  You may find that an ibo
experience appears to reduce pain or you may not.  Every patient/person has
to be accessed individually.  Pharmacological responses to any drug are more
than somewhat individual though there may be common factors.

If you proceed to use ibogaine, let us know the results.  If you are healthy
and well cared for during your therapy you have nothing to lose by taking
ibogaine, in my opinion.  You are a real smart guy who is doing lots of
things so I am really curious as to what you will do after ibogaine and I
just don’t mean relevant to pain and pain medication.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 5:50:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, <

Not at all Howard, that’s not what I meant in the slightest, don’t worry.
What I mean is that for someone who might want to stay off the addiction
part of opiate use, particularly since using it for pain on a steady basis
can lead to troubling signs of physical addiction, it seems a little
discouraging to think that after 3 years you went back to addiction
patterns. Not slighting you in the least little bit either. I’ve been there
and done that more than once.
So I guess it’s the extra insights gained by some people through their
experience with ibogaine that’s different with other options? I’ve not yet
found another permenent option I’ve discovered recently, much to my chagrin
and even a bit of panic.
Soooo, I’m wondering about stuff like ibogaine.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too

In a message dated 4/18/03 9:51:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering and a
bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsof says that
he was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again. Sooooo,
what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how well it
would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large
assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates for
simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine? How do
we deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses, just do it,’
but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where else am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever actually
get to?)

Preston,

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, than just cross
ibogaine off as a worthless medication.  No big deal.  And, three years is a
rather long run from a single ibogaine treatment so let me even add that.
The key factor however, excluding possibly Patrick, is that ibogaine time is
time free of craving for dope and that is something just about impossible to
imagine unless you experience it.  That makes ibogaine something very
special.

In my opinion there is nothing better than opiates for pain.  If you are in
pain take opiates if you like.  However, ibogaine may be useful there also.
Pain is a complex phenomena including anxiety related issues.
Neurobiologically, pain includes many mechanisms of action in many systems
throughout the body as does chemical dependence.  You may find that an ibo
experience appears to reduce pain or you may not.  Every patient/person has
to be accessed individually.  Pharmacological responses to any drug are more
than somewhat individual though there may be common factors.

If you proceed to use ibogaine, let us know the results.  If you are healthy
and well cared for during your therapy you have nothing to lose by taking
ibogaine, in my opinion.  You are a real smart guy who is doing lots of
things so I am really curious as to what you will do after ibogaine and I
just don’t mean relevant to pain and pain medication.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 5:05:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/18/03 3:59:07 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

<<  (it is really like “invasion of the
body snatchers, once you take any amount, you will
never be yourself again) >>

correction: “once you take any amount, you will always be yourself again.”

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 4:57:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What does someone like me do
after ibogaine? How do we
deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone

I only know what I do for my “assortment of aches and
pains” – TAKE PAIN MEDS, I don’t see or have a
conflict with taking pain (narcotic, opioid, whatever)
meds and not “using” at the same time. I will say that
if I didn’t take pain meds (just like the
addictionassholes say I should) I would still be
using/drinking likely, or dead and that is a fact!
Even now, I get so bad sometimes that I lose it, it is
obsurd amounts of pain. Most of it I can usually deal
with without taking heavy meds, other thing is the
heavy pain meds don’t work if I am taking too many of
them, and I get nasty, cranky, nuts, crazy, part of it
I recognize as an addict+drugs, there is even some
desire to USE MORE… but been doing this far too long
and know the game.

Post ibo I tend to dislike opiate pain meds but do use
them, and I dislike them even if (maybe especially so)
if I like them… FYI, nothing hurts right after ibo,
the bod feels like a healthy, 20something, cept with
more stamina, energy, mind is clear… (that is for a
non-addicted person).

here dealt with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making
excuses, just do it,’

Well…

but still, I’d like to know what others think and
feel. Where else am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these

Ask your doctor or pharmacist… How about at an AA
meeting??? NA? Your sponsor?

thoughts, and maybe even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if
and when I ever actually
get to?)

IMO, if you did, you will be just fine. If not, that
is up to you, I guess the world needs ibo-virgins as
much as ibonuts (it is really like “invasion of the
body snatchers, once you take any amount, you will
never be yourself again)

Anyway, I’m babbling rather publicly here from
my freezing cold NYC
apartment, but I’m genuinely curious, utterly broke,
in debt and
passportless, and careening towards another of those
weird often nasty
crossroads things at a speed that gets more
difficult to keep a handle on as
the crossroads loom closer.
argh. my brain and soul hurt, almost as much as the
rest of me.

Sounds like a good time for some ibo…  One thing,
the mind works very nicely post ibo, all kinds of
possibilities open up, things that seemed difficult,
get easier. Maybe you will find some answers or
opportunities, it would certainly make a great article
(keep a tape recorder handy, mumble loudly).

Brett

Peace,
Preston
(oh, and btw, who all is coming to the ibogaine
conference this May in the
city? Anyone got a list of speakers/presenters yet?
Dana?)

—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Anyone can get treatment at ibogatherapyhouse if
they go through the
application process.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

I do not meet the criteria to go to
ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health <

Insurance is paying for ibogaine treatments at Iboga
Therapy House?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AMON
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Thank you Brett, I really should have put more
thought
into my question.

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years. I have overdosed before on heroin and
cocaine. I
have sought treatment, through a detoxification
center
here, I was able to quit for a short period of time,
as
the physical withdrawal symptoms were ‘lessened’ due
to
the codeine and valium they gave me. I have been
using
still, and since reading Breaking Open the Head, by
Daniel Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine,
as
it seems it targets the areas where a government
funded
institution cant. The mental, and maybe even
spiritual
addiction, did not get addressed. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.
I do not meet the criteria to go to
ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in
Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

AMON,

— AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there?
I
would like two doses if possible.

It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could
say 1
gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or
1/2
gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which
is
subject to a number of variables. What it comes
down
to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is
it
addiction or is it for other reasons? The other
end of
it is you, some people require more, some require
less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not
trying to
split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to
it
than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.
More
typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
ballpark ranges for single dose administration.

25mg/kg max for a man
20mg/kg max for a woman
20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo,
laam)
15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
12-15mg for other addictions
8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior
tonic…

20% less for women by weight.

Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different
versions
but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
“dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you
don’t
know exactly till you get there and do it.

Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
“dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you
like a
ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er)
version
of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine
(and
there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going
from
there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
procedure not to be taken lightly, done
incorrectly
ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.

Brett

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have
hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is
is
that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be
intercepted,
and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately.
This
is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

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=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

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From: “Bryon” <Byron@unseenhand.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 2:11:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go Howard,,,,Good to know your still able to move your
fingers,,,,Jokin,,,,,

Keep kickin man, All worked well for me and still is, iam clean over ten
years now,,,,

Byron

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 18 April 2003 21:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question
too

In a message dated 4/18/03 1:56:09 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

Every patient/person has to be accessed individually.  Pharmacological
responses to >any drug are more  than somewhat individual though there
may be
common factors.

Assessed, that is.  My fingers are moving faster than my brain is
thinking.
Well, maybe not.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 2:00:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/18/03 1:56:09 PM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

Every patient/person has to be accessed individually.  Pharmacological
responses to >any drug are more  than somewhat individual though there may be
common factors.

Assessed, that is.  My fingers are moving faster than my brain is thinking.
Well, maybe not.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 1:54:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/18/03 9:51:00 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering and a
bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsof says that
he was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again. Sooooo,
what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how well it
would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large
assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates for
simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine? How do
we deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses, just do it,’
but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where else am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever actually
get to?)

Preston,

If you consider three years off of heroin as meaningless, than just cross
ibogaine off as a worthless medication.  No big deal.  And, three years is a
rather long run from a single ibogaine treatment so let me even add that.
The key factor however, excluding possibly Patrick, is that ibogaine time is
time free of craving for dope and that is something just about impossible to
imagine unless you experience it.  That makes ibogaine something very special.

In my opinion there is nothing better than opiates for pain.  If you are in
pain take opiates if you like.  However, ibogaine may be useful there also.
Pain is a complex phenomena including anxiety related issues.
Neurobiologically, pain includes many mechanisms of action in many systems
throughout the body as does chemical dependence.  You may find that an ibo
experience appears to reduce pain or you may not.  Every patient/person has
to be accessed individually.  Pharmacological responses to any drug are more
than somewhat individual though there may be common factors.

If you proceed to use ibogaine, let us know the results.  If you are healthy
and well cared for during your therapy you have nothing to lose by taking
ibogaine, in my opinion.  You are a real smart guy who is doing lots of
things so I am really curious as to what you will do after ibogaine and I
just don’t mean relevant to pain and pain medication.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
46 Oxford Place
Staten Island, NY 10301
tel, 718 442-2754
fax, 718 442-1957
email dwf123@earthlink.com
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 11:23:23 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 4/18/03 8:44:10 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<<  The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering and a

bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsoff says that he

was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine

experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again. Sooooo,

what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how well it

would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large

assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates for

simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine? How do we

deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt with this

situation? >>

preston,
i took ibo  5 yrs ago, thru eric (a true saint), after about 25 yrs of on &
off heroin use (mostly on!).  i too have severe back pain ……due to 35 yrs
of drumming…..(they have x-rayed, mri-ed, chiroprakted, and just about
everythinged me and cant find the difinitive trigger to my pain) and found
that opiates (oxycontins) do the best at keeping the 9+ pain down to a
tolerable 3-4 level.
i only needed 1 ibo dose to get sprung. i was fine and still am(got my life
goin’ perrty good). i went 3+yrs till i used once (was a nice high, but i
refuse to go thru the line of fire too cop….its just not worth the hassle)
…..i have a friend whos a dr. who gave me sporadic dilaudid scripts for my
increasing back probs (i am 53& not gettin any younger). he sugjested i find
a pain management dr. (that would be less likely to be hassled for
prescribing).  to make a long story short……i was on oxy (40mg- 3xdaily)
for 6 months. had to quit…..detoxed by reducing dosage in about 2 weeks,
with no problem. i think the ibo helped me (i.e. what i got out of the ibo
experiece) in dealing with ghost withdrawl symtoms (they were more mental
than physical). none the less……the back pain never left and got
worse….i found another dr who is much more caring about my situation & have
been on oxys now for almost a year with NO problems . i dont use any more
than prescribed…..most times i end up with extras!!!!!(30 yrs of addiction
& i end up with extras!!!!!…..go figger).
i know i am far from a typical opiate user…..so what works for me might
totaly fuk u up……..so this is NOT meant for use as an example.
but there is hope………much more than i had b4 ibo.
best
marcus

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US- after ibo pain treatment question too
Date: April 18, 2003 at 9:41:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Sandra and Marc. I was obviously wondering about that, not having
heard that insurance assertion before.
I finally sat down and watched Dana’s (?) Staten Island Project tape
yesterday morning with my girlfriend (I know, I’ve had it for over a couple
of years- what’ve I been waiting for), feeling morose and out of sorts, and
must say I am highly intrigued, more so by the day. Whoever that black
reporter was on the videotape was certainly very impressed by what he’d
discovered doing his research. I have to admit to real tears of anger and
frustration when hearing once again the freakin’ CIA brought up as having
had some more underhanded background involvement in the War on Some Drugs
and Users, which undertook their own research into ibogaine in the past, yet
kept it quiet. Infuriating to say the least.
I’m curious about the guy whose treatment was filmed for this video. How
is he doing today? Anyone know? (I think his name was Marc too, but
obviously a different Marc.)
The main thing, Still, about ibogaine, that leaves me wondering and a
bit offish about the whole thing, is that even Howard Lotsoff says that he
was off dope for just 3 and a half years after his first ibogaine
experience, but then found a reason to go back on the stuff again. Sooooo,
what with my own personal views on the topic, I’m wondering how well it
would work for someone like, say, me, who deals with a rather large
assortment of aches and pains and often finds the need for opiates for
simple pain relief. What does someone like me do after ibogaine? How do we
deal with real pain that is ever present? Anyone here dealt with this
situation? (Of course, some may say, ‘oh, yer making excuses, just do it,’
but still, I’d like to know what others think and feel. Where else am I
gonna ask this type of question, pose these thoughts, and maybe even get
some answers before actually trying the stuff, if and when I ever actually
get to?)
Anyway, I’m babbling rather publicly here from my freezing cold NYC
apartment, but I’m genuinely curious, utterly broke, in debt and
passportless, and careening towards another of those weird often nasty
crossroads things at a speed that gets more difficult to keep a handle on as
the crossroads loom closer.
argh. my brain and soul hurt, almost as much as the rest of me.
Peace,
Preston
(oh, and btw, who all is coming to the ibogaine conference this May in the
city? Anyone got a list of speakers/presenters yet? Dana?)

—– Original Message —–
From: MARC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Anyone can get treatment at ibogatherapyhouse if they go through the
application process.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health <

Insurance is paying for ibogaine treatments at Iboga Therapy House?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AMON
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Thank you Brett, I really should have put more thought
into my question.

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years. I have overdosed before on heroin and cocaine. I
have sought treatment, through a detoxification center
here, I was able to quit for a short period of time, as
the physical withdrawal symptoms were ‘lessened’ due to
the codeine and valium they gave me. I have been using
still, and since reading Breaking Open the Head, by
Daniel Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine, as
it seems it targets the areas where a government funded
institution cant. The mental, and maybe even spiritual
addiction, did not get addressed. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.
I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

AMON,

— AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
would like two doses if possible.

It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1
gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2
gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which is
subject to a number of variables. What it comes down
to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it
addiction or is it for other reasons? The other end of
it is you, some people require more, some require
less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not trying to
split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to it
than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.  More
typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
ballpark ranges for single dose administration.

25mg/kg max for a man
20mg/kg max for a woman
20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo, laam)
15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
12-15mg for other addictions
8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…

20% less for women by weight.

Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different versions
but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
“dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you don’t
know exactly till you get there and do it.

Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
“dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a
ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er) version
of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine (and
there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going from
there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
procedure not to be taken lightly, done incorrectly
ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.

Brett

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is is
that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be intercepted,
and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This
is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 11:23:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

in that case, my next step is to apply!
tks!

Anyone can get treatment at ibogatherapyhouse if
they go through the application process.

Marc Emery

—– Original Message —–
From:
preston peet

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56
PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

I do not meet the criteria to go to
ibogatherapyhouseas I am not
covered by Vancouver Health <

Insurance is paying for ibogaine treatments at
Iboga Therapy House?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From:
AMON

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:03
PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to
US
Thank you Brett, I really should have put more
thoughtinto my question. I am 25, and am addicted
to opiates. I
use drugs IV,mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a
little over
twoyears. I have overdosed before on heroin and
cocaine. Ihave
sought treatment, through a detoxification
centerhere, I was able to
quit for a short period of time, asthe physical
withdrawal symptoms were
‘lessened’ due tothe codeine and valium they gave
me. I have been
usingstill, and since reading Breaking Open the
Head, byDaniel
Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine, asit
seems it targets the
areas where a government fundedinstitution cant.
The mental, and maybe
even spiritualaddiction, did not get addressed. I
asked for
two’doses’ as I read that the first alleviates
thephysical symptoms
of withdrawal, where the second,taken a week or two
after the first
helps withrestabilizing ones life into society. I
do not meet the
criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouseas I am not
covered by Vancouver
Health (I live in NovaScotia). Thank you for your
information, it is
very useful!> > AMON,> > — AMON
<amon@wetnightmare.com>
wrote:> > there is no problem shipping to Canada is
there?
I> > would like two doses if possible.> > It
doesn’t
quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1> gm is a
dose, you could
also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2> gm is a dose. So, a
DOSE for WHAT is
different for> each person and reasons for taking
ibogaine which
is> subject to a number of variables. What it comes
down> to
is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it>
addiction or is it
for other reasons? The other end of> it is you,
some people require
more, some require> less, some need boosters, some
don’t…  Not
trying to> split hairs here, just that IMO there is
more to
it> than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in
the>
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.
More> typically
ibogaine HCL is used in the following> ballpark
ranges for single
dose administration.> > 25mg/kg max for a man>
20mg/kg
max for a woman> 20-25mg/kg for methadone and
similar(ie levo,
laam)> 15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates
(dope)> 12-15mg
for other addictions> 8-12 for initiatory
doses/booster> 2-4mg
small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…> >
20% less for
women by weight. > > Roughly anyways, there are
somewhat
different versions> but that would be a ballpark,
best guess, one
time> “dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you
need to>
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,>
drug use/history,
drug(s) you are addicted to if> any/how much/how
long and it is still
(IMO) you don’t> know exactly till you get there
and do it.>
Then it also depends on the reaction to the test>
“dose” –
with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a> ton
of bricks, it may
be you have a slow(er) version> of the primary
enzyme that
metabolizes ibogaine (and> there are 4 flavors;
not, slow, regular
and super> fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or
at least I>
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going
from> there). This
isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in> Kansas any
more, it is a very
long and arduous> procedure not to be taken
lightly, done
incorrectly> ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on
a person. >
Brett> > > > > > > > Practical
Answer: I don’t want to find out the> > hard> > >
way, thus I don’t ship > > > there!> > > >
=)> > > > > > Marko> > >
At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:> > >
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or>

extract shipped to them > > > >in the US from
another
country, how likely is is> > that> > > a small
quantity > > > >(enough for single dose) would be
intercepted,> > and if> > > so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately.
This> > is,> > > of course, all > > >
hypothetical, not conspiracy :-)> > > >> >
will> >
<a href> >
=”wetnightmare.comhttp://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>>

__________________________________________________>
Do you
Yahoo!?> The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier.
Bingo> http://search.yahoo.com<a
href=”http://mail.wetnightmare.com/jump/wetnightmare.comhttp://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 10:17:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anyone can get treatment at ibogatherapyhouse if they go through the application process.

Marc Emery
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

>I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health <

Insurance is paying for ibogaine treatments at Iboga Therapy House?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AMON
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Thank you Brett, I really should have put more thought
into my question.

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years. I have overdosed before on heroin and cocaine. I
have sought treatment, through a detoxification center
here, I was able to quit for a short period of time, as
the physical withdrawal symptoms were ‘lessened’ due to
the codeine and valium they gave me. I have been using
still, and since reading Breaking Open the Head, by
Daniel Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine, as
it seems it targets the areas where a government funded
institution cant. The mental, and maybe even spiritual
addiction, did not get addressed. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.
I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

>
> AMON,
>
> — AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
> > there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
> > would like two doses if possible.
>
> It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1
> gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2
> gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
> each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which is
> subject to a number of variables. What it comes down
> to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it
> addiction or is it for other reasons? The other end of
> it is you, some people require more, some require
> less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not trying to
> split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to it
> than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
> morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.  More
> typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
> ballpark ranges for single dose administration.
>
> 25mg/kg max for a man
> 20mg/kg max for a woman
> 20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo, laam)
> 15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
> 12-15mg for other addictions
> 8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
> 2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…
>
> 20% less for women by weight.
>
> Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different versions
> but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
> “dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
> state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
> drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
> any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you don’t
> know exactly till you get there and do it.
>
> Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
> “dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a
> ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er) version
> of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine (and
> there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
> fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
> would strongly suggest cutting back (and going from
> there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
> Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
> procedure not to be taken lightly, done incorrectly
> ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.
>
> Brett
> >
> > >
> > > Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
> > hard
> > > way, thus I don’t ship
> > > there!
> > >
> > > =)
> > >
> > > Marko
> > >
> > > At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
> > > >Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
> > > extract shipped to them
> > > >in the US from another country, how likely is is
> > that
> > > a small quantity
> > > >(enough for single dose) would be intercepted,
> > and if
> > > so what would likely
> > > >penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This
> > is,
> > > of course, all
> > > >hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >will
> >
> > <a href
> > =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 9:17:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amon,
Our therapy program will treat you if you have a Canadian Care Card #. This is valid across Canada and is needed in case of an emergency (ie: in case of a complication that required a visit to the hospital ). Healthcare with this # is covered across Canada for canadians although Vancouver Health does not pay for the treatment, it is offered free of charge and is sponsored by Marc Emery. If you have any more questions or would like to make an application for treatment at the Iboga Therapy House please contact me at:  sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.org
-Sandra
—– Original Message —–
From: “preston peet” 
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 20:56:54 -0400
To: 
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
>I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health <

Insurance is paying for ibogaine treatments at Iboga Therapy House?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AMON
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Thank you Brett, I really should have put more thought
into my question.

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years. I have overdosed before on heroin and cocaine. I
have sought treatment, through a detoxification center
here, I was able to quit for a short period of time, as
the physical withdrawal symptoms were ‘lessened’ due to
the codeine and valium they gave me. I have been using
still, and since reading Breaking Open the Head, by
Daniel Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine, as
it seems it targets the areas where a government funded
institution cant. The mental, and maybe even spiritual
addiction, did not get addressed. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.
I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

>
> AMON,
>
> — AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
> > there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
> > would like two doses if possible.
>
> It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1
> gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2
> gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
> each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which is
> subject to a number of variables. What it comes down
> to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it
> addiction or is it for other reasons? The other end of
> it is you, some people require more, some require
> less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not trying to
> split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to it
> than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
> morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.  More
> typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
> ballpark ranges for single dose administration.
>
> 25mg/kg max for a man
> 20mg/kg max for a woman
> 20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo, laam)
> 15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
> 12-15mg for other addictions
> 8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
> 2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…
>
> 20% less for women by weight.
>
> Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different versions
> but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
> “dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
> state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
> drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
> any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you don’t
> know exactly till you get there and do it.
>
> Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
> “dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a
> ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er) version
> of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine (and
> there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
> fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
> would strongly suggest cutting back (and going from
> there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
> Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
> procedure not to be taken lightly, done incorrectly
> ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.
>
> Brett
> >
> > >
> > > Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
> > hard
> > > way, thus I don’t ship
> > > there!
> > >
> > > =)
> > >
> > > Marko
> > >
> > > At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
> > > >Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
> > > extract shipped to them
> > > >in the US from another country, how likely is is
> > that
> > > a small quantity
> > > >(enough for single dose) would be intercepted,
> > and if
> > > so what would likely
> > > >penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This
> > is,
> > > of course, all
> > > >hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >will
> >
> >
> > =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com< A>>
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com

wetnightmare.comhttp://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com< A>>


____________________________________________________
Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net
Powered by Outblaze

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 8:56:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health <

Insurance is paying for ibogaine treatments at Iboga Therapy House?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AMON
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Thank you Brett, I really should have put more thought
into my question.

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years. I have overdosed before on heroin and cocaine. I
have sought treatment, through a detoxification center
here, I was able to quit for a short period of time, as
the physical withdrawal symptoms were ‘lessened’ due to
the codeine and valium they gave me. I have been using
still, and since reading Breaking Open the Head, by
Daniel Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine, as
it seems it targets the areas where a government funded
institution cant. The mental, and maybe even spiritual
addiction, did not get addressed. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.
I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

>
> AMON,
>
> — AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
> > there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
> > would like two doses if possible.
>
> It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1
> gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2
> gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
> each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which is
> subject to a number of variables. What it comes down
> to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it
> addiction or is it for other reasons? The other end of
> it is you, some people require more, some require
> less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not trying to
> split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to it
> than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
> morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.  More
> typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
> ballpark ranges for single dose administration.
>
> 25mg/kg max for a man
> 20mg/kg max for a woman
> 20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo, laam)
> 15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
> 12-15mg for other addictions
> 8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
> 2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…
>
> 20% less for women by weight.
>
> Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different versions
> but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
> “dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
> state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
> drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
> any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you don’t
> know exactly till you get there and do it.
>
> Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
> “dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a
> ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er) version
> of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine (and
> there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
> fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
> would strongly suggest cutting back (and going from
> there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
> Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
> procedure not to be taken lightly, done incorrectly
> ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.
>
> Brett
> >
> > >
> > > Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
> > hard
> > > way, thus I don’t ship
> > > there!
> > >
> > > =)
> > >
> > > Marko
> > >
> > > At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
> > > >Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
> > > extract shipped to them
> > > >in the US from another country, how likely is is
> > that
> > > a small quantity
> > > >(enough for single dose) would be intercepted,
> > and if
> > > so what would likely
> > > >penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This
> > is,
> > > of course, all
> > > >hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >will
> >
> > <a href
> > =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
> http://search.yahoo.com

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 3:30:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If packaged flat in an ordinary envelope, I would say the chances of
received HCI are 100% or extract (five time more) about 80%. Must be sent
flat in an ordinary envelope.

Marc
—– Original Message —–
From: “Will” <willewonka@burntmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 6:17 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or extract shipped to them in
the US from another country, how likely is is that a small quantity (enough
for single dose) would be intercepted, and if so what would likely penalty
be? Feel free to respond privately. This is, of course, all hypothetical,
not conspiracy 🙂

will

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 2:05:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s completely legal in Canada, I hear/read.

Lemme have your snail-mail addresse and lets try, huh?

=)

At 17:59 17.4.2003, you wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
would like two doses if possible.

>
> Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the hard
> way, thus I don’t ship
> there!
>
> =)
>
> Marko
>
> At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
> >Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
> extract shipped to them
> >in the US from another country, how likely is is that
> a small quantity
> >(enough for single dose) would be intercepted, and if
> so what would likely
> >penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This is,
> of course, all
> >hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂
> >
> >
> >
> >will

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post ibo treatment
Date: April 17, 2003 at 2:04:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hiya,
Over the past few years there have been several, mostly younger people, but a few in their late 30’s and 40’s who have have relocated to Gainesville immediately after returning from their treatment and so far none have had a relapse.  This is unusual especially since most of the people are in their 20’s.  Although for reasons unknown to me north central Florida has a minimal opiate situation, this is not the reason for the ability for people to stay clean here. None of the respective parents relocate.
Most often, addiction has to do with some level of abandment from the same sex parent.  This understanding, along with a specific spiritual perspective which is available through a dear friend who has been here for 25 years, along with the growing community of iboga initiates, lends to this happening.  I’m very pleased.  I only wish there were 50 other such situations in communities here in the U.S.
Eric

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 2:03:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Brett, I really should have put more thought
into my question.

I am 25, and am addicted to opiates. I use drugs IV,
mostly cocaine, and dilaudids, for a little over two
years. I have overdosed before on heroin and cocaine. I
have sought treatment, through a detoxification center
here, I was able to quit for a short period of time, as
the physical withdrawal symptoms were ‘lessened’ due to
the codeine and valium they gave me. I have been using
still, and since reading Breaking Open the Head, by
Daniel Pinchbeck, I am very interested in ibogaine, as
it seems it targets the areas where a government funded
institution cant. The mental, and maybe even spiritual
addiction, did not get addressed. I asked for two
‘doses’ as I read that the first alleviates the
physical symptoms of withdrawal, where the second,
taken a week or two after the first helps with
restabilizing ones life into society.
I do not meet the criteria to go to ibogatherapyhouse
as I am not covered by Vancouver Health (I live in Nova
Scotia).
Thank you for your information, it is very useful!

AMON,

— AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
would like two doses if possible.

It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1
gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2
gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which is
subject to a number of variables. What it comes down
to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it
addiction or is it for other reasons? The other end of
it is you, some people require more, some require
less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not trying to
split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to it
than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.  More
typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
ballpark ranges for single dose administration.

25mg/kg max for a man
20mg/kg max for a woman
20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo, laam)
15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
12-15mg for other addictions
8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…

20% less for women by weight.

Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different versions
but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
“dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you don’t
know exactly till you get there and do it.

Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
“dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a
ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er) version
of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine (and
there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going from
there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
procedure not to be taken lightly, done incorrectly
ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.

Brett

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is is
that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be intercepted,
and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This
is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 1:32:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AMON,

— AMON <amon@wetnightmare.com> wrote:
there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
would like two doses if possible.

It doesn’t quite work that way. Sure, you could say 1
gm is a dose, you could also say 2 gm is a dose or 1/2
gm is a dose. So, a DOSE for WHAT is different for
each person and reasons for taking ibogaine which is
subject to a number of variables. What it comes down
to is partly the reason you need the ibogaine, is it
addiction or is it for other reasons? The other end of
it is you, some people require more, some require
less, some need boosters, some don’t…  Not trying to
split hairs here, just that IMO there is more to it
than just taking 2 (X amount) and seeing me in the
morning, that is how not to take ibogaine IMO.  More
typically ibogaine HCL is used in the following
ballpark ranges for single dose administration.

25mg/kg max for a man
20mg/kg max for a woman
20-25mg/kg for methadone and similar(ie levo, laam)
15-20mg/kg for shorter acting opiates (dope)
12-15mg for other addictions
8-12 for initiatory doses/booster
2-4mg small booster, aphrodesiac, superior tonic…

20% less for women by weight.

Roughly anyways, there are somewhat different versions
but that would be a ballpark, best guess, one time
“dose” using HCL. To get a better idea you need to
state your age, sex, weight, health issues if any,
drug use/history, drug(s) you are addicted to if
any/how much/how long and it is still (IMO) you don’t
know exactly till you get there and do it.

Then it also depends on the reaction to the test
“dose” – with HCL usually 100mg. If it hits you like a
ton of bricks, it may be you have a slow(er) version
of the primary enzyme that metabolizes ibogaine (and
there are 4 flavors; not, slow, regular and super
fast) – if so, the dose is cut down, or at least I
would strongly suggest cutting back (and going from
there). This isn’t a hit of acid and you ain’t in
Kansas any more, it is a very long and arduous
procedure not to be taken lightly, done incorrectly
ibogaine can be fatal or very hard on a person.

Brett

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the
hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is is
that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be intercepted,
and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This
is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href
=”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: “AMON” <amon@wetnightmare.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 11:59:59 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there is no problem shipping to Canada is there? I
would like two doses if possible.

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the hard
way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or
extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is is that
a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be intercepted, and if
so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This is,
of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

<a href =”http://wetnightmare.com>wetnightmare.com</a>

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] recent links at DrugWar.com
Date: April 17, 2003 at 10:53:24 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
All these stories are linked in the leftbar at http://www.drugwar.com.
Seems folks haven’t forgotten there’s another war being waged, endlessly
waged.
Thanks also to Jules Siegel for his review of ‘A Million Little Pieces’,
third story down on our front page, and to Robert Merkin, for giving me an
excuse to run a neato photo of bottled LSD-25 today.
Peace
Preston

A new window on drug blight (April 17, 2003)
“It’s not your standard bus tour. For three hours, passengers on the Drug
War Reality Tour ride through North Philadelphia’s neighborhood of
Kensington, seldom disembarking to see the sights on this trail of smuggling
and addiction.”

”Colombia: another front in broader U.S. war” (April 17, 2003)
“The United States’ other war in Colombia — not the other ‘war on terror’
but the ‘war on drugs’ — is quickly becoming embarrassing for Washington.”

Tall tales muddy the drug war (April 17, 2003)
“The thicker the baloney the more likely our youth will reject the message.
So it is no wonder the
White House’s current drug-and-terror ad campaign failed. It is a cynical,
opportunistic series of exaggerations that attempt to capitalize on the
terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.”

‘Just Say Know’ (April 17, 2003)
“Although an entire generation of Americans has now been raised on Nancy
Reagan’s simple anti-dope ‘Just Say No’ mantra, they’re still just as likely
to say yes.”

The other war that should be stopped (April 17, 2003)
“We must recognise that prohibition, rather than curtailing use, generates
crime, because it makes trading in illicit drugs a lucrative business. As
politicians everywhere remain loath to be seen as ‘soft on drugs,’ something
must be done to call attention to this remorseless failure,” says Italian
activist and politician Emma Bonino.

Protest war begun long ago (April 17, 2003)
“The most unjust and self-destructive war being fought by America today is
not in the Middle East, it is fought right here in the U.S.A.. It is the
drug war.”

U.S. War on Drugs Called a Failure (April 17, 2003)
“Critics of a U.S.-led global crackdown on illicit drugs declared the policy
a failure Tuesday, calling it “the war that America cannot win” and urging a
United Nations commission to consider other approaches to the problem.”

Casualties rising in Thailand’s war on drugs (April 17, 2003)
“The death toll in Thailand’s 10-week war on drugs has reached 2,275 – or
more than 30 killings per day.”

Tim Robbins: ‘A Chill Wind is Blowing in This Nation …’ (April 17, 2003)
This is the text of the speech given by actor Tim Robbins to the National
Press Club in Washington, D.C., on April 15, 2003.

Criminalizing personal behavior fills jails (April 17, 2003)
“As we win the war in Iraq, we should take a moment to consider another war
here at home, a war we are losing and will always lose: the drug war.”

Brazil Health Ministry Writes Decriminalization Law (April 17, 2003)
“According to the Ministry, the current law treats the consumer as a
criminal and impedes access to treatment.”

N.Y. Committee OKs Medical-Marijuana Bill (April 16, 2003)
“The New York Assembly Health Committee voted in favor of a bill that would
legalize marijuana for medical purposes, the Rochester Democrat and
Chronicle reported April 9.”

In black press, war skepticism runs high (April 16, 2003)
“Although there has been debate in the mainstream media over the wisdom and
tactics of the fighting in Iraq, many black journalists and commentators –
reflecting a black America that, polls said, was overwhelmingly opposed to
going to war – have been considerably more outspoken and skeptical about the
decision that put US troops onto a Middle East battlefield.”

Lawsuit against DEA gets OK (April 16, 2003)
“A federal judge paved the way for three undercover agents, who claim they
are being punished for whistle-blowing, to go forward with a lawsuit against
the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.”

Carving Up The New Iraq (April 16, 2003)
“This isn’t a selfless exercise. In a special Sunday Herald investigation,
we have charted the network of financial kickbacks, political pay-backs,
cronyism, self-interest and ferocious ideology that underpins the entire
reconstruction scheme.”

State trooper indicted for stealing seized drugs (April 16, 2003)
“A state trooper was indicted Tuesday on charges he stole about 13 kilos of
cocaine destined for the incinerator and tried to sell it through a friend,
Attorney General Thomas Reilly said Tuesday.”

Companies Penalized for Doing Business with Enemy States (April 16, 2003)
“Prominent companies listed include Amazon, Bank of New York, Caterpillar,
Chevron/Texaco, Citibank, Dow Agrosciences, ESPN, ExxonMobile, the New York
Yankees, Wal-Mart Stores, and Wells Fargo.”
Library books, letters and priceless documents are set ablaze in final
chapter of the sacking of

Baghdad (April 16, 2003)
“So yesterday was the burning of books. First came the looters, then the
arsonists.” As someone very interested in archeology and history, the editor
of DrugWar.com finds this to be totally sickening. Of course, all the death
and mayhem in Baghdad isn’t too cool either, but this is the icing on the
whole bloody, rotten cake.

Over 65 Arrested in International Methamphetamine Investigation (April 16,
2003)
“The arrests are the result of an 18-month international investigation
targeting the illegal importation of pseudoephedrine, an essential chemical
used in methamphetamine production.”

Court Says Man Can Legally Bark at Police Dog (April 16, 2003)
“The 4th Ohio District court of Appeals upheld the dismissal of charges
against a man who returned the barks of police dog Pepsie in Athens, Ohio,
in September 2001.”

The War at Home (April 15, 2003)
“Our jails overflow with nonviolent drug offenders. Have we reached the
point where the drug war causes more harm than the drugs themselves?”

The war on drugs (April 15, 2003)
“So, the United States plays the ugly American as it pushes its Latin
neighbors to adopt policies of interdiction, eradication, and crop-switching
from drug plants like marijuana to staples like cotton. But, it reaps grief,
including guerrilla warfare….”

COOK: Marijuana does not contribute to terrorism (April 15, 2003)
“Unlike the racist religious right who criminalized marijuana in the first
place (Harrison Act of 1916), I would like to point out that while marijuana
does not contribute to terrorism, the purchase of cocaine does serve to fuel
the senseless, decades-long war in Columbia.”

Bill Would Allow Medical-Marijuana Defense (April 15, 2003)
“Legislation introduced in the U.S. House of Representatives would allow
residents living in states with medical-marijuana laws to use “medical
necessity” as a defense against federal drug charges, Reuters reported April
10.”

Producer fired for view on Bush (April 15, 2003)
“Gernon stated his belief that fear fuelled both the Bush administration’s
adoption of a pre-emptive-strike policy and the public’s acceptance of it.”

Marijuana Compounds May Act Without Causing a High (April 15, 2003)
Certain companies would love to bottle or put into pills these compounds to
sell, while leaving current users of natural whole pot at the mercy of
prohibitionist enforcers.

The Failed Education ‘Reforms’ (April 15, 2003)
“In Inverness, Florida, a 12-year-old boy was cuffed, arrested, and taken in
a patrol car to jail where he was held for two hours…,” for stomping in
water puddles.

Writer admits marijuana possession (April 15, 2003)
“Prizewinning writer Ramo Nakajima pleaded guilty Monday to possessing
marijuana at his home in Takarazuka, Hyogo Prefecture.”

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] (For NYers- OT) Fw: Reminder: April 28
Date: April 17, 2003 at 10:36:11 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

not that this has a heck of a lot to do with drug wars or ibogaine, (which
by golly I Really Want to Try).
Still, for those in the area, you may find this interesting. I know Z and
he’s pretty cool as is my friend Baddeley.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Mickey Z.
To: mzx2@earthlink.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 10:30 PM
Subject: Reminder: April 28

Hope you can make it and/or spread the word.

Thanks,

Mickey Z.

———-

The Murdering of My Years: A Discussion on the Culture of Work

Housing Works Used Book Cafe
126 Crosby Street, NYC 10012.
(212-334-3324)
bookstore@housingworks.org
Subway: S,F,V, 6 to Broadway-Lafayette. N, R to Prince St.

April 28 at 7PM.

The discussion will be moderated by Mickey Z, author of The Murdering of My
Years: Artists and Activists Making Ends Meet and Saving Private Power: A
Hidden History of the Good War.

The panel will include Marisa Bowe, co-editor of Gig: Americans Talk About
Their Jobs, the poet Sparrow, Danny Schechter, author of The More You Watch,
the Less You Know, Gary Baddeley, publisher of Disinformation Company, and
James Surowiecki, financial columnist for The New Yorker.

The discussion will approach several specific questions concerning the
nature of work in America from a radical perspective, from the influence of
the media on attitudes towards work to an examination of the American work
ethic.

There will also be a focus on alternative ways of making a living. Audience
participation will be encouraged and Mickey Z will be available afterward to
sign books.

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 10:32:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

darn.;-)) (but probably…no, absolutely I mean, absolutely smart of you
Marco._
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Ustanova Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the hard way, thus I don’t ship
there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or extract shipped to them
in the US from another country, how likely is is that a small quantity
(enough for single dose) would be intercepted, and if so what would likely
penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This is, of course, all
hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

From: Reynaldo Gonzalez <pacopaco44@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The man who killed KennedyWHO?
Date: April 17, 2003 at 10:16:41 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

AGREED
— Jeff Skupien <iom333@attbi.com> wrote:
John Kennedy was an American President, who was
assassinated by Lee
Harvey Oswald. There is still a lot of controversy
surrounding this
assassination, and many people think that Lee Harvey
Oswald was framed.
John F Kennedy was one of the most famous and well
known American
Presidents, and many Americans were very pleased
with him. That is
partly why you are still hearing about him all the
time. What this post
is doing on an Ibogaine mailing list is something I
was pondering
myself, but I’m new to this list, so I was just kind
of expecting all
Ibogaine related topics.
You should probably take that post accusing George
Bush Sr. of
murdering JFK with a grain or two of salt, to put it
politely! While
it’s very possible that Lee Harvey Oswald was
innocent, and possible
that if he was the lone shooter, it was a Government
conspiracy. It
sounds to me that this person who wrote this story
may be just another
anti-Bush, anti-war type person who is bitter about
the way things
turned out in America since Bush became President
and he wants to say
whatever needs to be said to try and keep George
Bush jr. from being
re-elected. That’s just my humble opinion, and I’m
sure no expert! It
sure makes for an interesting story though!

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search – Faster. Easier. Bingo
http://search.yahoo.com

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 10:13:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Practical Answer: I don’t want to find out the hard way, thus I don’t ship there!

=)

Marko

At 15:17 17.4.2003, you wrote:
Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or extract shipped to them in the US from another country, how likely is is that a small quantity (enough for single dose) would be intercepted, and if so what would likely penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This is, of course, all hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

From: “Will” <willewonka@burntmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] iboga to US
Date: April 17, 2003 at 9:17:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hypothetical Question: If one were to have hcl or extract shipped to them in the US from another country, how likely is is that a small quantity (enough for single dose) would be intercepted, and if so what would likely penalty be? Feel free to respond privately. This is, of course, all hypothetical, not conspiracy 🙂

will

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post ibo treatment
Date: April 17, 2003 at 7:21:54 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 04:43 17.4.2003, you wrote:

Hi Curtis,

I’m planning to open a center where people could stay for a month, changing their lives/habits in that time. I’m quite sure this could be done in such a short time – ater IBO, of course!

There are several issues which have to be solved first. I have to find a suitable place (just this week I went to see a beautiful 8-bedroom villa, but unfortunately it’s in the middle of village) and I have to find appropriate people who have experience with IBO and are willing to work there. There’s no problem with money (!) because an investor approached me who is willing to finance a project like that. For profit, of course, but he calculated that one-month package (all inclusive) should cost 2.000 US$, which I don’t find too expensive.

Oh, almost forgot: this will be a religious community (Sacrament of Transition) and thus perfectly legal. And Slovenia is a beautiful country, and Ryan-Air costs next to nothing…

;-))

Marko

Marc, bro have you thought about in some way making a longer term after
ibogaine community? You have the big advantage of I think being different
and not having some treatment pimp 12 step compound, but a actual community
where people who have gone through iboga therapy house can take part
in afterwards? I know I’m sounding like let’s all start communes and
maybe that’s not such a bad idea.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:17:52 -0700 IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com wrote:
>Hi,
>     If you like, i could e-mail you several no.’s of people and
>their
>parents who have relocated to Gainesville. More are coming because
>it’s
>working.  If you find anything else comparable to what’s available
>here
>please let me know as it may be helpful for people who may not want
>to
>relocate quite so far from “dodge”.
>
>
>
>
>
>            Eric
>

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] post ibo treatment
Date: April 16, 2003 at 10:43:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Eric, I’m interested in know what’s happening and how you deal with
living in gainesville after ibo. I’m in San Francisco where it is not
that hard to find people who have a outlook on life that is not far from
my own, but really when I look at who I spend my time with I don’t think
there are more then 2 people who were ever drug addicts and only one
other person who did ibogaine to stop using heroin.

The treatment pimp scene is so very negative and depresses me, same for
the 12 steppers. The only real link to community after ibogaine I have
ever found is on this list. The big advantage is that it’s a global village
from all over the world but it would be cool I think to see more ibogaine
oriented communities in the world, so that if you were in california,
ny, other parts of the world, there would be at least some places where
people who had been through the same scene were together.

Marc, bro have you thought about in some way making a longer term after
ibogaine community? You have the big advantage of I think being different
and not having some treatment pimp 12 step compound, but a actual community
where people who have gone through iboga therapy house can take part
in afterwards? I know I’m sounding like let’s all start communes and
maybe that’s not such a bad idea.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:17:52 -0700 IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com wrote:
Hi,
If you like, i could e-mail you several no.’s of people and
their
parents who have relocated to Gainesville. More are coming because
it’s
working.  If you find anything else comparable to what’s available
here
please let me know as it may be helpful for people who may not want
to
relocate quite so far from “dodge”.

Eric

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Big $$$ to be made with the HushMail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: Jeff Skupien <iom333@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The man who killed KennedyWHO?
Date: April 16, 2003 at 10:37:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

John Kennedy was an American President, who was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald. There is still a lot of controversy surrounding this assassination, and many people think that Lee Harvey Oswald was framed. John F Kennedy was one of the most famous and well known American Presidents, and many Americans were very pleased with him. That is partly why you are still hearing about him all the time. What this post is doing on an Ibogaine mailing list is something I was pondering myself, but I’m new to this list, so I was just kind of expecting all Ibogaine related topics.
You should probably take that post accusing George Bush Sr. of murdering JFK with a grain or two of salt, to put it politely! While it’s very possible that Lee Harvey Oswald was innocent, and possible that if he was the lone shooter, it was a Government conspiracy. It sounds to me that this person who wrote this story may be just another anti-Bush, anti-war type person who is bitter about the way things turned out in America since Bush became President and he wants to say whatever needs to be said to try and keep George Bush jr. from being re-elected. That’s just my humble opinion, and I’m sure no expert! It sure makes for an interesting story though!

From: Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The man who killed KennedyWHO?
Date: April 16, 2003 at 9:38:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who’s John f Kenedy im 14 did he help invent ibogaine in a lab or was he one of the afrikans no hes in jail for assinating who? thats weird
ode2ptolemy@hushmail.com wrote:
The Man Who Murdered JFK

Introduction

In little more than seven months, it will be the 40th anniversary of
the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I am an old man now, and because
of the fact that cancer is about to do away with me, I am no longer very
concerned over what happens to me from here on out. My wife and son
are already gone, and the so-called “experts” only give me another four
months or so before I pass on. As such, I’ve made up my mind that I
don’t intend to pass away without divulging what I know; what I know
is the identity of the person who planned and carried out the assassination
of John Fitzgerald Kennedy on November 22, 1963. The reason I know the
identity of this person is because I was there that day and I was watching
him. I had been watching him for about two years at that point for reasons
I won’t go in to. He, however, has never been aware of this fact.

I won’t go into all “the why’s and the wherefores” of John’s assassination;
a good number of folks have already spent a lot of time trying to figure
it all out and explain it. Basically, there were a variety of reasons
he was assassinated; most of them are pretty well wrapped up and sitting
on the local library shelves. I’ve been waiting a good number of years
for someone to uncover the unifying element behind this heinous crime;
but since they haven’t, I guess the task falls on me. Or rather, it
fell on me 40 years ago that day in Dallas. Perhaps that is why the
good Lord has had me hanging on for all these years.

To start off, it’s important to understand that John’s murder was, and
remains, a conspiracy of the highest order. I hope that you are already
aware of at least that much.
Likewise, it’s vital to understand that I know who killed John F. Kennedy
because I was in the area of the kill-zone that day, and that I saw and
recognized the man who coordinated and carried out this evil deed. I’m
not some sort of “conspiracy theorist,” though his murder was certainly
a conspiracy. Likewise, I’m not some left-wing nut with an axe to grind.
I’m simply offering the truth. For reasons I won’t go in to, but can
be easily figured out, I had been keeping my eyes on him for a number
of years leading up to the assassination. I caught wind of things that
were to come, so I watched closely and followed him there.

The two main reasons I never came forward before now have both died,
so I’m no longer overly concerned about what can be done to them. Likewise,
I am no longer worried about my own life, since I am passing away quickly.
I say this so that you can understand my reasons for remaining quiet
for so long, not to indicate that I am simply some paranoid old man who
has an overactive imagination. I tell you this in order for you to understand
very clearly the power that this man still wields. I have witnessed
it, I have understood it, and I have watched it grow for over 40 years
now. I have seen what this individual and his murderous henchmen are
capable of, and exactly how powerful he is. Do not underestimate what
he can and will do in order to carry out his plans.

After a long period of consideration following my diagnosis of Cancer,
I think I finally came to understand something about myself that I had
known all along. I’m just a simple, kind-hearted sort of person that
finds it too damned hard to let sleeping dogs lie. I guess forgetting
just isn’t possible when you see a man have his brains blown out and
sprayed all over his beautiful young wife. If they would murder a President
of the United States with impunity, for a mixture of reasons that served
their own interests, what would they do to anyone else who got in their
way? For me, this isn’t a rhetorical question. I had the veil ripped
from my eyes the same week I turned 37. Since that day, I have watched
these people dip their hands in blood almost continuously. I couldn’t
even begin to estimate the number of innocent people they have murdered
since that day in Dallas.

Background

I’m not sure exactly how to explain it all, except to begin by saying
that the man who planned it all is still very much alive and completely
drunk with wealth and power. I am not exaggerating when I say that his
control over world affairs is nearly unparalleled; and this isn’t just
a crank conspiracy theory, it’s merely the way that it is. One of the
most important lessons that came out of the 60’s, culminated at Woodstock
(I was there as well), is that a group of individuals can be kept pacified
by simply giving them what they desire. With enough drugs, alcohol,
and music, in the correct psychosocial environment, it is possible to
induce people to live in the mud, and sleep in the midst of their own
filth, and to do so happily. This statement is not to be understood
as a personal denigration of these activities, but merely as a means
of illustration. These, and other types of techniques, are much more
sophisticated today. The most effective form of captivity and mind control
is that which cannot be clearly seen. But I digress.

Essentially, I am simply stating that I really don’t have anything to
lose or gain at this point in my life, except for the peace that will
come by the unburdening of my soul. Most likely, I will have passed
away in another four months or so; it is simply time for the truth to
come out once and for all. All of the pieces are there; hopefully this
document will help to serve as a roadmap.

Just so you will understand, it is not, herein, my intention to reveal
my identity. I have no interest in spending the rest of my short life
under this man’s watchful eyes. Nor do I wish to have people contacting
me and/or harassing me day and night. In addition, I do not wish to
bring any sort of emotional or stress-related harm upon those individuals
I have labored with over the years by having my professional reputation
attacked and vilified. I have accomplished too much in my life to allow
harm to fall upon those whom I consider true friends and co-laborers.

Last, let me comment on the invariable question that will arise. Where
are the pictures? As difficult as it might be for people to accept,
you cannot imagine how difficult it was to discover that none of the
photographs I took that week had turned out. I had taken my camera in
for repairs three weeks prior, due to an aperture problem. I actually
shot a roll of film after it was returned to me that turned out fine.
That week in Dallas, however, the aperture problem reoccurred and all
of the photographs I thought I had taken I had not.

Knowledge and Understanding

You really don’t have to be a genius to figure all of this out, but I
will tell you at the outset that it’s going to seem a little crazy, especially
in this day and age. All I am offering is the truth, and it is up to
you to walk through the door. With that said, all you really need to
unravel this tale is the unifying theme which holds it all together.
This unifying theme is simply to understand that this murderer has lived
his entire life in obedience to the occult practice of astrology. All
of the major decisions he has made in life have been predicated upon
this nonsense, and as a result, a lot of decent people have been murdered
over the years. You will find it very useful to download a decent astronomy
program to verify everything that follows. Likewise, I would also recommend
that you read up on Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman mythology,
as well as gaining a basic understanding of astronomy and astrology.
Nonetheless, I will try to keep it simple and briefly explain things
as I go along. In the interests of data transfer and bandwidth, however,
I will only provide enough images to get the ball rolling.
The rest will be up to you. Likewise, I won’t be going into some of the
more technical issues, or revealing the larger portion of what I know.
I figure there are still a few good investigative reporters still left,
as well as enough curious and intelligent individuals out there who
are capable of tracking these things down. It is my hope that this “message
in a bottle,” so to speak, will find its way into the hands of enough
people and that it will begin to grow from there. Perhaps justice in
this matter can still be served after all. Only time can tell. I make
no request for you to forward or share this with anyone; I leave that
up to you. My only request is that you go through these things slowly,
thoughtfully, and carefully, in order to understand them.

To begin, it is vital to understand that our starting point is the planet
Mars. The man who assassinated Kennedy sees himself as some sort of
god-king of old that is represented by the planet Mars, the god of war.
For the record, let me state unequivocally that I think astrology is
simply a bunch of nonsense. I grew up in a simple Christian home, and
though I’ve done my share of sinning, I think astrology simply goes against
the Bible (as well as common sense). However, I am certainly not the
type to shove my beliefs down your throat; if you believe differently,
so be it. I sincerely have no difficulty with people whose beliefs
and opinions are different than my own. However, whether or not it is
right or wrong, it sure as hell isn’t right for someone to murder people
over, much less to chart the course of world events based upon what “the
stars” seem to be saying.

To save you some time, I’ll give you some of the basics before we get
started. In astrology, as previously stated, Mars represents the god
of war. Neptune, of course, represents the god of the sea, or the sea
itself. Venus, the goddess of love, is representative of friendship,
love, affection, and compassion. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, Venus
was also understood to represent Lucifer, who is the devil.

Before we delve into John Kennedy’s assassination, I will begin by showing
from whence this man sprung. In this way, you will see more easily those
things that come afterward.

Birth and Rebirth of an Assassin

The man that killed John Kennedy was born to a family of wealth and power
on June 12, 1924. He graduated from school on the same day he became
a man, June 12, 1942. He then enlisted in the US Navy, and received
his wings in June of 1943. Between the years of 1943 and 1945, he served
as a pilot, flying torpedo bombers in World War II.

On September 2, 1944, he went on a bombing mission that targeted a Japanese
communications installation. On that mission, he replaced his normal
turret gunner with his best friend, a man by the name of Lt. William
White. His other crewmember that day was named Delaney; I don’t recall
his first name. I believe this was the day that he committed his first
cold-blooded murders. His aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire during
this bombing run, but he reportedly completed his run; after he banked
away, he bailed out of his aircraft and it crashed into the Sea of Japan.
A US submarine that was in the area later rescued him. He would later
claim that his aircraft’s wing was on fire, and that smoke was rolling
into the cockpit, and out of the aircraft itself. As a result, he claimed
that he was unable to maintain his control of the aircraft. He reported
that he hollered for his crew to bail out, and that he thought they had
gotten out. In fact, after he escaped from his aircraft, he reported
that he saw at least one of them bail out, but that his chute didn’t
appear to open. He, however, managed to escape safely, except for a
gash on his head. His two crewmembers were never found.

The main problem with this story is the only eyewitness recalled it very
differently. He was a gunner in the aircraft in front that had already
completed its bombing run. He told me all he saw was a puff of smoke
come out of the wing, and that was it. He was also surprised that the
pilot had bailed out and crashed his aircraft, instead of doing a water
landing like he had done a few months before. I found all of this out
later from the man that saw it occur. He had a very clear view of what
happened, and he only saw one person bailed out. He also told me that
there sure wasn’t a lot of smoke rolling out of the aircraft like the
man claimed many years later. I have the man’s name somewhere in the
pile of notes and documents I have collected over the years, but I haven’t
been able to locate it yet. However, I also ran across it some time
ago on the Internet.

This is where the first astrology discourse comes in. It might sound
a bit outlandish, so take it with a grain of salt, check it yourself,
and read the rest of what I have written before making up your mind.

In image #1 is the location of Mars, the god of war, on Sept. 2, 1944,
the day he splashed his bomber in the Sea of Japan. In this image (and
subsequent images), the planets move from right to left, unless otherwise
indicated.

In this image, Mars is crossing through, or in front of, the planet Neptune.
As seen in this image, Mars had passed the planet Venus. This took place
while Mars was in the constellation of Virgo. In other words, you see
the so-called god of war plunging into the sea, while leaving his best
friend behind. Having taken place in the constellation of Virgo, this
event can be understood as being symbolic of some sort of rebirth.

After the war, the future murderer of JFK got married (Jan. 6, 1945)
and went off to college where he received a degree in economics. It was
somewhere around then, or perhaps before, that the CIA recruited him.
Over the years, he has continued to deny this and I can only assume that
it’s because he doesn’t want to be associated with the assassination
of Kennedy, as well as a host of other activities before and since.
I have it on the authority of well-connected intelligence sources that
he was, indeed, recruited well before 1961.

There are also a few Freedom of Information Act documents that seem pretty
clear on the matter, indicating that he was in the CIA well before he
admits. They can be found on various Internet sites. After graduating
in 1948, he and his wife moved to Texas where he became involved in the
oil business. I won’t go into the years between 1948 and 1963, except
to say that this individual was also involved in the Bay of Pigs fiasco,
in addition to a number of other events that occurred during this particular
time frame.

Astrology and the Assassination of JFK

Jumping forward to November 22, 1963, image #2 indicates the location
of the planet Mars on that eventful day.

In image #2, the planet Mars is seen “colliding” with Venus, the planet
that would be representative of John Kennedy; a man with many faults,
nonetheless, he was renowned for his friendliness, kindness, and compassion.
This occurs in the constellation Ophiucus, the serpent bearer, as the
planet Mercury looks on near the constellation of Scorpio, in the lower
right quadrant of Ophiucus. You are encouraged to explore and understand
the story behind the constellations Ophiucus and Serpens, as they shed
a lot of light on John’s murder.

.

With a glance it should become quickly apparent that the elements in
this image are very reflective of Dealey Plaza. If you flip it over,
it becomes a lot clearer. The Sun is evident on the left part of this
rotated image (image #3) in the “grassy knoll” area, the direction where
most eyewitnesses indicated they heard gunfire. The only thing that isn’t
quickly apparent is that all of the angles and distances of the constellation
Scorpio, when scaled down, are the exact dimensions of the Dealey Plaza
shooting area. Check this for yourself, using the star Antares to represent
the tree on the northeast corner at Elm and Houston. The tree that on
the western corner, behind the pergola, is represented by the star “Pi
Sco.” (HR 5944). These two points create the straight line along the
northwest side of Dealey Plaza.

The role of the planet Mercury is best understood by reading the Greek
myth of Juno and her Rivals. The basic gist of this tale is that the
god Jupiter calls Mercury to strike off the head of Argus, of the hundred
eyes. Argus was guarding and mistreating Jupiter’s mistress, at the
behest of Jupiter’s wife Juno. You are strongly encouraged to read and
understand the various aspects of this myth, and to calculate the angles
and distances represented here. It is also very useful to scale and
overlay that information on to a scaled map of Dealey Plaza.

The Assassin Gathers Power

Following his murder of John F. Kennedy, this so-called god of war made
an unsuccessful bid for the senate, and was defeated on November 3, 1964.
However, this loss was not accidental, nor unexpected, contrary to the
lies documented in his autobiography. The outcome was manipulated because
of what “the stars” indicated he should do.

In this next image, keep in mind that the Lion is representative of power,
authority, and majesty. Likewise, we also call them the “Kings of the
Jungle.” The path of Mars on that date, and following, makes it clear
that his loss was intentional. The motion of Mars took it just barely
through the corner of the constellation of Leo, for a brief brush with
power in 1964.

On November 5, 1966, he was elected to the US House of representatives.
Though the planet Mars was not inside of the constellation Leo, proper,
at this time, it was still in the quadrant (or house) containing Leo.
I am certainly not an expert in astrology, so I’m not exactly sure how
this man understands this nonsense to work. I have simply had a lifelong
fascination with the science of Astronomy, and ancient mythological literature,
coupled with an overwhelming interest in watching what this silver-spooned,
murderous bastard did all of his life. For this date, and following,
I have not included any images; however, you are STRONGLY encouraged
to review this data for yourselves. All of these dates are replete with
astrological significance.

On November 5, 1968, he was re-elected to the US House of Representatives.
Then, in 1970, he lost his campaign for the Senate. Mars was crossing
over the planet Uranus in the constellation of Virgo on November 5, 1968.
On November 3, 1970, Mars was close to crossing over Uranus in the constellation
of Virgo again, but didn’t actually do so until November 6th. You are
encouraged to delve further into the mythology surrounding Uranus. Basically,
Uranus was the son of Gaia (Earth) who came into existence shortly after
Chaos and was considered the first ruler of the universe. Mars’ failure
to cross Uranus until November 6th is representative of his failure to
receive the mantle or blessing of Uranus in time to take authority again
during this election.

In 1971, Mars began the year in the constellation of Libra, and then
traveled through the constellations Scorpio, Ophiucus, Sagittarius, Capricorn,
and Aquarius, ending the year in the constellation of Pisces. All I
can say here is that you will need to do a lot of reading on all the
related issues to develop a better grasp on these matters. In 1971 (through
1973) he became the US ambassador to the United Nations. The symbolism
inherent within Aquarius and Pisces should be somewhat apparent. In
1973, he became the chairman of the Republican National Committee, and
in October of 1974, he became the Chief of the US liaison office in China.

In January of 1976, he was appointed Director of the CIA, despite the
fact that that he has always claimed to have never been in the employ
of the CIA prior to this time. At that time, Mars crossed over the constellation
of Taurus, the Bull. Generally speaking, this represents the god of
war rushing powerfully forward; likewise, Taurus is also representative
of great strength.

One of the more interesting things that he did while he was the Director
of the CIA was to squash a story in the Washington Star about the CIA
lying under oath during the Warren Commission. This article appeared
in the October 1, 1976 (Section A2) of the Washington Star. The information
came out as a result of the Freedom of Information Act, and it involved
the CIA’s interest in interviewing Oswald some time around 1961, well
prior to Kennedy’s assassination. Richard Helms testified under oath
that the CIA had never considered Oswald for an interview, when actually
they had. For convenience, this article is attached.

In November of 1980, while Mars and Neptune were in the constellation
Ophiucus, he was elected to serve as Vice-President of the United States.
It is interesting to note that Ophiucus is known as the serpent holder,
as the constellation is conjoined with the constellation Serpens. In
this constellation, Ophiucus is seen wrestling with a serpent that is
reaching for the “crown,” a constellation represented by Corona and its
surrounding stars. The serpent, however, is held fast so that he cannot
reach the crown. At that time, the so-called “power behind the throne,
” wasn’t actually the President’s wife, as many would believe, but was
actually in the hands of the man in the position beneath him. As you
dig deep into the astrological information that correlates to this election,
you will begin to understand how deep this rabbit hole actually goes.
Likewise, as already indicated, this constellation has great significance
as it pertains to John’s assassination.

The Assassin-King takes the Throne

In November 1988, Mars was in the constellation Pisces, and this man
was elected President of the United States. In the early part of his
presidency he proclaimed “a new world order.” This phraseology was not
simply a meaningless figure of speech. This “new world order,” of which
he spoke is not the kind of order that you, I, or any other sane and
rational person in this country would ever like to see. It is certainly
not an order that involves the protections that are guaranteed to us
in the Constitution. When he lost his bid for reelection, this “new
world order” did not lose any ground. For a great many years now, this
individual’s strategy has been to slowly erode the Constitution. Again,
this is not conjecture on my part. Both of these things have been confirmed
by well-placed intelligence sources.

After he lost his bid for reelection (due to a ticket split created by
his close friend Ross Perot), he supposedly retired in 1993. In November
of 1994, however, his son (who had a long history of alcohol and drug
involvement), with NO significant political experience was elected as
Governor of Texas by an extremely close margin. He was also the first
Governor in Texas history to be elected to two consecutive terms. This
occurred while William J. Clinton served as President of the United States
for a period of two terms. Then, in 2001, his son was elected President
of the United States by a very slim margin, in a hotly contested election,
that many have claimed was “fixed.” Let me state clearly at this point,
that I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, but an independent. Many
years ago, I was a very strong supporter and active participant in the
Republican Party. It is not my intention to herein malign either Party;
as such, I won’t enter into speculation on those matters. I am more interested
in truth than I am in partisan politics, and as far as I know the crime
of murder has no statute of limitations. Not even for the rich and powerful.
Likewise, I remain extremely concerned over the sanity of this individual
and the possible violence that could be done to this great nation as
a result of his obedience to, and history of committing murder, based
on what “the stars” tell him to do.

The Assassin-King Plays from Shadow

At this point, I will leave the rest of the story for you to unravel.
But I will assist you by helping to point the way. To understand current
events, it must be understood that this man’s son reckons himself as
being represented by the planet Neptune (god of the sea). When understood
in this light, the hotly contested election can be better understood.
On Nov. 7, 2000, the planet Neptune had begun its final move into the
constellation of Capricorn, (the sea-goat). To understand what I mean
by “final move,” you will need to review the concept of “retrograde motion”
of the planets. Likewise, it is helpful to understand that Uranus, in
Greek mythology, was the primeval sky god who was both son and husband
of Gaia, the goddess of the earth; thus, Uranus can be seen to represent
environmentalists, conservationists, and, by extension, the Democratic
Party, as well as Albert Gore. At the time of the election, Uranus had
begun its final movement in exiting the constellation. On Tues., Dec.
12, the day the election was decided, Uranus completed its exit of the
constellation Capricorn. At the same time Neptune, the god of the sea,
entered Capricorn on its final occasion. On the day of the inauguration
(Jan. 20, 2001), Neptune was completely in Capricorn and the Sun had
begun to move into Capricorn; this would seem to represent a coronation
of sorts. At the time of this election, the so-called god of war was
in the constellation of Libra, bringing warfare and violence to the scales
of justice.

JFK’s murderer is still very much “the power behind the throne.” As
such, you might be interested in looking into where the planet Mars was
located before, during, and after Sept. 11th, 2001. Likewise, it is
also interesting to see where Mars been located since 2/27/03, and when
he will be exiting that constellation. If you understand what that constellation
represents, i.e., what he/it is doing, and further understand what the
Moon represents, you will find very interesting things on the morning
of Sept. 11th, 2001 in the constellation Gemini, the Twins. Likewise,
the location of Mars, and the motion of the Moon in the days leading
up to 9/11 is very informative.

I would also encourage you to understand the significance of the date
March 19, 2003. It was the day prior to the Spring Equinox. At that
time, and over the midnight hour, we heralded in Spring, as well as the
Chinese “Year of the Goat,” by beginning the attack on Iraq. I would
bet that most people believe our attack was delayed because of the negotiations
and political nonsense at the UN. That, however, was merely the cover;
the wool that is pulled over the eyes, so to speak.

Conclusion

I am truly at a loss as to how I should conclude, as I have left so much
unsaid. At this point, I can only pray this message will find its way
into the hands of enough people who understand its value, and who are
willing to fight to the point of bloodshed for their liberty, and the
values that are contained within our Constitution.

I can only hope that enough people will hunger and thirst to understand
these things, and that they will refuse to let injustice and murder
go unpunished. For if they do not, this nation, and the values of liberty
and freedom that are guaranteed within its Constitution, will perish
at the hands of those who would make themselves like God.

I have faith that all of these matters will come into light, and that
this great nation, that was conceived in the womb of liberty and by the
blood of its martyrs, will no longer go blindly into bondage, nor let
its Constitution and its Declaration of Independence from the tyrannical
powers of oppression be taken away without a fight.

Freedom is not free. Liberty can only be protected and preserved by
those who serve the people of this great nation; by those who refuse
to bow before the gods of greed and power, and their own selfish interests.

I leave you with these thoughts:

Shall “We the people,” simply allow the rich and powerful to murder others
with impunity?

Shall “We the people,” grant them the right to hide their evil deeds
behind a veil of lies, while claiming they are “in the interests of national
security?”

Shall “We the people,” remain blind and indifferent to the ambitious
desires of evil men, and refuse to spill our own blood for the cause
of liberty, simply because we are too busy watching television?

Or shall “We the people,” abolish a Form of Government that has so clearly
become destructive to the interests of its governed? We are no longer
a nation that is governed by the principles of liberty and justice.
We have become a nation that is owned and controlled by the highest bidders,
a nation that blindly serves the self-interests of a powerful few.
It is “We the People,” that must re-institute a constitutional Government
that is truly “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”

“WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness — That
to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any
Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right
of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
. ” — The US Declaration of Independence.

On November 22, 2003, let the people of this great nation gather together
and begin to do
the difficult things that must be done. The simple truth is that our
numbers are greater and that our wills are stronger. By our love of country
and by the principles of liberty we will overcome them.

We will gather on that day and remember that George H. W. Bush murdered
President John F.
Kennedy in cold blood, and that he and his son sit upon a stolen throne.

We will come in peace, yet we will come for war. We will gather stones,
and scatter them togehter. We will rise up to plant and we will also
pluck out.

Most of all, we will gather together for the very simple reason that
the blood of America’s martyrs is crying out, and demanding it of us.

I sincerely regret having waited so long, and that all I have to give
are these few words for the life of my country.

Respectfully yours,

-Radec
4757

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=image_1.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=image_2 copy.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 4 image/jpeg name=image_3 copy.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 5 image/jpeg name=image_4.jpg
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From: Nick Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] The man who killed KennedyWHO?
Date: April 16, 2003 at 9:38:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who’s John f Kenedy im 14 did he help invent ibogaine in a lab or was he one of the afrikans no hes in jail for assinating who? thats weird
ode2ptolemy@hushmail.com wrote:
The Man Who Murdered JFK

Introduction

In little more than seven months, it will be the 40th anniversary of
the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I am an old man now, and because
of the fact that cancer is about to do away with me, I am no longer very
concerned over what happens to me from here on out. My wife and son
are already gone, and the so-called “experts” only give me another four
months or so before I pass on. As such, I’ve made up my mind that I
don’t intend to pass away without divulging what I know; what I know
is the identity of the person who planned and carried out the assassination
of John Fitzgerald Kennedy on November 22, 1963. The reason I know the
identity of this person is because I was there that day and I was watching
him. I had been watching him for about two years at that point for reasons
I won’t go in to. He, however, has never been aware of this fact.

I won’t go into all “the why’s and the wherefores” of John’s assassination;
a good number of folks have already spent a lot of time trying to figure
it all out and explain it. Basically, there were a variety of reasons
he was assassinated; most of them are pretty well wrapped up and sitting
on the local library shelves. I’ve been waiting a good number of years
for someone to uncover the unifying element behind this heinous crime;
but since they haven’t, I guess the task falls on me. Or rather, it
fell on me 40 years ago that day in Dallas. Perhaps that is why the
good Lord has had me hanging on for all these years.

To start off, it’s important to understand that John’s murder was, and
remains, a conspiracy of the highest order. I hope that you are already
aware of at least that much.
Likewise, it’s vital to understand that I know who killed John F. Kennedy
because I was in the area of the kill-zone that day, and that I saw and
recognized the man who coordinated and carried out this evil deed. I’m
not some sort of “conspiracy theorist,” though his murder was certainly
a conspiracy. Likewise, I’m not some left-wing nut with an axe to grind.
I’m simply offering the truth. For reasons I won’t go in to, but can
be easily figured out, I had been keeping my eyes on him for a number
of years leading up to the assassination. I caught wind of things that
were to come, so I watched closely and followed him there.

The two main reasons I never came forward before now have both died,
so I’m no longer overly concerned about what can be done to them. Likewise,
I am no longer worried about my own life, since I am passing away quickly.
I say this so that you can understand my reasons for remaining quiet
for so long, not to indicate that I am simply some paranoid old man who
has an overactive imagination. I tell you this in order for you to understand
very clearly the power that this man still wields. I have witnessed
it, I have understood it, and I have watched it grow for over 40 years
now. I have seen what this individual and his murderous henchmen are
capable of, and exactly how powerful he is. Do not underestimate what
he can and will do in order to carry out his plans.

After a long period of consideration following my diagnosis of Cancer,
I think I finally came to understand something about myself that I had
known all along. I’m just a simple, kind-hearted sort of person that
finds it too damned hard to let sleeping dogs lie. I guess forgetting
just isn’t possible when you see a man have his brains blown out and
sprayed all over his beautiful young wife. If they would murder a President
of the United States with impunity, for a mixture of reasons that served
their own interests, what would they do to anyone else who got in their
way? For me, this isn’t a rhetorical question. I had the veil ripped
from my eyes the same week I turned 37. Since that day, I have watched
these people dip their hands in blood almost continuously. I couldn’t
even begin to estimate the number of innocent people they have murdered
since that day in Dallas.

Background

I’m not sure exactly how to explain it all, except to begin by saying
that the man who planned it all is still very much alive and completely
drunk with wealth and power. I am not exaggerating when I say that his
control over world affairs is nearly unparalleled; and this isn’t just
a crank conspiracy theory, it’s merely the way that it is. One of the
most important lessons that came out of the 60’s, culminated at Woodstock
(I was there as well), is that a group of individuals can be kept pacified
by simply giving them what they desire. With enough drugs, alcohol,
and music, in the correct psychosocial environment, it is possible to
induce people to live in the mud, and sleep in the midst of their own
filth, and to do so happily. This statement is not to be understood
as a personal denigration of these activities, but merely as a means
of illustration. These, and other types of techniques, are much more
sophisticated today. The most effective form of captivity and mind control
is that which cannot be clearly seen. But I digress.

Essentially, I am simply stating that I really don’t have anything to
lose or gain at this point in my life, except for the peace that will
come by the unburdening of my soul. Most likely, I will have passed
away in another four months or so; it is simply time for the truth to
come out once and for all. All of the pieces are there; hopefully this
document will help to serve as a roadmap.

Just so you will understand, it is not, herein, my intention to reveal
my identity. I have no interest in spending the rest of my short life
under this man’s watchful eyes. Nor do I wish to have people contacting
me and/or harassing me day and night. In addition, I do not wish to
bring any sort of emotional or stress-related harm upon those individuals
I have labored with over the years by having my professional reputation
attacked and vilified. I have accomplished too much in my life to allow
harm to fall upon those whom I consider true friends and co-laborers.

Last, let me comment on the invariable question that will arise. Where
are the pictures? As difficult as it might be for people to accept,
you cannot imagine how difficult it was to discover that none of the
photographs I took that week had turned out. I had taken my camera in
for repairs three weeks prior, due to an aperture problem. I actually
shot a roll of film after it was returned to me that turned out fine.
That week in Dallas, however, the aperture problem reoccurred and all
of the photographs I thought I had taken I had not.

Knowledge and Understanding

You really don’t have to be a genius to figure all of this out, but I
will tell you at the outset that it’s going to seem a little crazy, especially
in this day and age. All I am offering is the truth, and it is up to
you to walk through the door. With that said, all you really need to
unravel this tale is the unifying theme which holds it all together.
This unifying theme is simply to understand that this murderer has lived
his entire life in obedience to the occult practice of astrology. All
of the major decisions he has made in life have been predicated upon
this nonsense, and as a result, a lot of decent people have been murdered
over the years. You will find it very useful to download a decent astronomy
program to verify everything that follows. Likewise, I would also recommend
that you read up on Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman mythology,
as well as gaining a basic understanding of astronomy and astrology.
Nonetheless, I will try to keep it simple and briefly explain things
as I go along. In the interests of data transfer and bandwidth, however,
I will only provide enough images to get the ball rolling.
The rest will be up to you. Likewise, I won’t be going into some of the
more technical issues, or revealing the larger portion of what I know.
I figure there are still a few good investigative reporters still left,
as well as enough curious and intelligent individuals out there who
are capable of tracking these things down. It is my hope that this “message
in a bottle,” so to speak, will find its way into the hands of enough
people and that it will begin to grow from there. Perhaps justice in
this matter can still be served after all. Only time can tell. I make
no request for you to forward or share this with anyone; I leave that
up to you. My only request is that you go through these things slowly,
thoughtfully, and carefully, in order to understand them.

To begin, it is vital to understand that our starting point is the planet
Mars. The man who assassinated Kennedy sees himself as some sort of
god-king of old that is represented by the planet Mars, the god of war.
For the record, let me state unequivocally that I think astrology is
simply a bunch of nonsense. I grew up in a simple Christian home, and
though I’ve done my share of sinning, I think astrology simply goes against
the Bible (as well as common sense). However, I am certainly not the
type to shove my beliefs down your throat; if you believe differently,
so be it. I sincerely have no difficulty with people whose beliefs
and opinions are different than my own. However, whether or not it is
right or wrong, it sure as hell isn’t right for someone to murder people
over, much less to chart the course of world events based upon what “the
stars” seem to be saying.

To save you some time, I’ll give you some of the basics before we get
started. In astrology, as previously stated, Mars represents the god
of war. Neptune, of course, represents the god of the sea, or the sea
itself. Venus, the goddess of love, is representative of friendship,
love, affection, and compassion. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, Venus
was also understood to represent Lucifer, who is the devil.

Before we delve into John Kennedy’s assassination, I will begin by showing
from whence this man sprung. In this way, you will see more easily those
things that come afterward.

Birth and Rebirth of an Assassin

The man that killed John Kennedy was born to a family of wealth and power
on June 12, 1924. He graduated from school on the same day he became
a man, June 12, 1942. He then enlisted in the US Navy, and received
his wings in June of 1943. Between the years of 1943 and 1945, he served
as a pilot, flying torpedo bombers in World War II.

On September 2, 1944, he went on a bombing mission that targeted a Japanese
communications installation. On that mission, he replaced his normal
turret gunner with his best friend, a man by the name of Lt. William
White. His other crewmember that day was named Delaney; I don’t recall
his first name. I believe this was the day that he committed his first
cold-blooded murders. His aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire during
this bombing run, but he reportedly completed his run; after he banked
away, he bailed out of his aircraft and it crashed into the Sea of Japan.
A US submarine that was in the area later rescued him. He would later
claim that his aircraft’s wing was on fire, and that smoke was rolling
into the cockpit, and out of the aircraft itself. As a result, he claimed
that he was unable to maintain his control of the aircraft. He reported
that he hollered for his crew to bail out, and that he thought they had
gotten out. In fact, after he escaped from his aircraft, he reported
that he saw at least one of them bail out, but that his chute didn’t
appear to open. He, however, managed to escape safely, except for a
gash on his head. His two crewmembers were never found.

The main problem with this story is the only eyewitness recalled it very
differently. He was a gunner in the aircraft in front that had already
completed its bombing run. He told me all he saw was a puff of smoke
come out of the wing, and that was it. He was also surprised that the
pilot had bailed out and crashed his aircraft, instead of doing a water
landing like he had done a few months before. I found all of this out
later from the man that saw it occur. He had a very clear view of what
happened, and he only saw one person bailed out. He also told me that
there sure wasn’t a lot of smoke rolling out of the aircraft like the
man claimed many years later. I have the man’s name somewhere in the
pile of notes and documents I have collected over the years, but I haven’t
been able to locate it yet. However, I also ran across it some time
ago on the Internet.

This is where the first astrology discourse comes in. It might sound
a bit outlandish, so take it with a grain of salt, check it yourself,
and read the rest of what I have written before making up your mind.

In image #1 is the location of Mars, the god of war, on Sept. 2, 1944,
the day he splashed his bomber in the Sea of Japan. In this image (and
subsequent images), the planets move from right to left, unless otherwise
indicated.

In this image, Mars is crossing through, or in front of, the planet Neptune.
As seen in this image, Mars had passed the planet Venus. This took place
while Mars was in the constellation of Virgo. In other words, you see
the so-called god of war plunging into the sea, while leaving his best
friend behind. Having taken place in the constellation of Virgo, this
event can be understood as being symbolic of some sort of rebirth.

After the war, the future murderer of JFK got married (Jan. 6, 1945)
and went off to college where he received a degree in economics. It was
somewhere around then, or perhaps before, that the CIA recruited him.
Over the years, he has continued to deny this and I can only assume that
it’s because he doesn’t want to be associated with the assassination
of Kennedy, as well as a host of other activities before and since.
I have it on the authority of well-connected intelligence sources that
he was, indeed, recruited well before 1961.

There are also a few Freedom of Information Act documents that seem pretty
clear on the matter, indicating that he was in the CIA well before he
admits. They can be found on various Internet sites. After graduating
in 1948, he and his wife moved to Texas where he became involved in the
oil business. I won’t go into the years between 1948 and 1963, except
to say that this individual was also involved in the Bay of Pigs fiasco,
in addition to a number of other events that occurred during this particular
time frame.

Astrology and the Assassination of JFK

Jumping forward to November 22, 1963, image #2 indicates the location
of the planet Mars on that eventful day.

In image #2, the planet Mars is seen “colliding” with Venus, the planet
that would be representative of John Kennedy; a man with many faults,
nonetheless, he was renowned for his friendliness, kindness, and compassion.
This occurs in the constellation Ophiucus, the serpent bearer, as the
planet Mercury looks on near the constellation of Scorpio, in the lower
right quadrant of Ophiucus. You are encouraged to explore and understand
the story behind the constellations Ophiucus and Serpens, as they shed
a lot of light on John’s murder.

.

With a glance it should become quickly apparent that the elements in
this image are very reflective of Dealey Plaza. If you flip it over,
it becomes a lot clearer. The Sun is evident on the left part of this
rotated image (image #3) in the “grassy knoll” area, the direction where
most eyewitnesses indicated they heard gunfire. The only thing that isn’t
quickly apparent is that all of the angles and distances of the constellation
Scorpio, when scaled down, are the exact dimensions of the Dealey Plaza
shooting area. Check this for yourself, using the star Antares to represent
the tree on the northeast corner at Elm and Houston. The tree that on
the western corner, behind the pergola, is represented by the star “Pi
Sco.” (HR 5944). These two points create the straight line along the
northwest side of Dealey Plaza.

The role of the planet Mercury is best understood by reading the Greek
myth of Juno and her Rivals. The basic gist of this tale is that the
god Jupiter calls Mercury to strike off the head of Argus, of the hundred
eyes. Argus was guarding and mistreating Jupiter’s mistress, at the
behest of Jupiter’s wife Juno. You are strongly encouraged to read and
understand the various aspects of this myth, and to calculate the angles
and distances represented here. It is also very useful to scale and
overlay that information on to a scaled map of Dealey Plaza.

The Assassin Gathers Power

Following his murder of John F. Kennedy, this so-called god of war made
an unsuccessful bid for the senate, and was defeated on November 3, 1964.
However, this loss was not accidental, nor unexpected, contrary to the
lies documented in his autobiography. The outcome was manipulated because
of what “the stars” indicated he should do.

In this next image, keep in mind that the Lion is representative of power,
authority, and majesty. Likewise, we also call them the “Kings of the
Jungle.” The path of Mars on that date, and following, makes it clear
that his loss was intentional. The motion of Mars took it just barely
through the corner of the constellation of Leo, for a brief brush with
power in 1964.

On November 5, 1966, he was elected to the US House of representatives.
Though the planet Mars was not inside of the constellation Leo, proper,
at this time, it was still in the quadrant (or house) containing Leo.
I am certainly not an expert in astrology, so I’m not exactly sure how
this man understands this nonsense to work. I have simply had a lifelong
fascination with the science of Astronomy, and ancient mythological literature,
coupled with an overwhelming interest in watching what this silver-spooned,
murderous bastard did all of his life. For this date, and following,
I have not included any images; however, you are STRONGLY encouraged
to review this data for yourselves. All of these dates are replete with
astrological significance.

On November 5, 1968, he was re-elected to the US House of Representatives.
Then, in 1970, he lost his campaign for the Senate. Mars was crossing
over the planet Uranus in the constellation of Virgo on November 5, 1968.
On November 3, 1970, Mars was close to crossing over Uranus in the constellation
of Virgo again, but didn’t actually do so until November 6th. You are
encouraged to delve further into the mythology surrounding Uranus. Basically,
Uranus was the son of Gaia (Earth) who came into existence shortly after
Chaos and was considered the first ruler of the universe. Mars’ failure
to cross Uranus until November 6th is representative of his failure to
receive the mantle or blessing of Uranus in time to take authority again
during this election.

In 1971, Mars began the year in the constellation of Libra, and then
traveled through the constellations Scorpio, Ophiucus, Sagittarius, Capricorn,
and Aquarius, ending the year in the constellation of Pisces. All I
can say here is that you will need to do a lot of reading on all the
related issues to develop a better grasp on these matters. In 1971 (through
1973) he became the US ambassador to the United Nations. The symbolism
inherent within Aquarius and Pisces should be somewhat apparent. In
1973, he became the chairman of the Republican National Committee, and
in October of 1974, he became the Chief of the US liaison office in China.

In January of 1976, he was appointed Director of the CIA, despite the
fact that that he has always claimed to have never been in the employ
of the CIA prior to this time. At that time, Mars crossed over the constellation
of Taurus, the Bull. Generally speaking, this represents the god of
war rushing powerfully forward; likewise, Taurus is also representative
of great strength.

One of the more interesting things that he did while he was the Director
of the CIA was to squash a story in the Washington Star about the CIA
lying under oath during the Warren Commission. This article appeared
in the October 1, 1976 (Section A2) of the Washington Star. The information
came out as a result of the Freedom of Information Act, and it involved
the CIA’s interest in interviewing Oswald some time around 1961, well
prior to Kennedy’s assassination. Richard Helms testified under oath
that the CIA had never considered Oswald for an interview, when actually
they had. For convenience, this article is attached.

In November of 1980, while Mars and Neptune were in the constellation
Ophiucus, he was elected to serve as Vice-President of the United States.
It is interesting to note that Ophiucus is known as the serpent holder,
as the constellation is conjoined with the constellation Serpens. In
this constellation, Ophiucus is seen wrestling with a serpent that is
reaching for the “crown,” a constellation represented by Corona and its
surrounding stars. The serpent, however, is held fast so that he cannot
reach the crown. At that time, the so-called “power behind the throne,
” wasn’t actually the President’s wife, as many would believe, but was
actually in the hands of the man in the position beneath him. As you
dig deep into the astrological information that correlates to this election,
you will begin to understand how deep this rabbit hole actually goes.
Likewise, as already indicated, this constellation has great significance
as it pertains to John’s assassination.

The Assassin-King takes the Throne

In November 1988, Mars was in the constellation Pisces, and this man
was elected President of the United States. In the early part of his
presidency he proclaimed “a new world order.” This phraseology was not
simply a meaningless figure of speech. This “new world order,” of which
he spoke is not the kind of order that you, I, or any other sane and
rational person in this country would ever like to see. It is certainly
not an order that involves the protections that are guaranteed to us
in the Constitution. When he lost his bid for reelection, this “new
world order” did not lose any ground. For a great many years now, this
individual’s strategy has been to slowly erode the Constitution. Again,
this is not conjecture on my part. Both of these things have been confirmed
by well-placed intelligence sources.

After he lost his bid for reelection (due to a ticket split created by
his close friend Ross Perot), he supposedly retired in 1993. In November
of 1994, however, his son (who had a long history of alcohol and drug
involvement), with NO significant political experience was elected as
Governor of Texas by an extremely close margin. He was also the first
Governor in Texas history to be elected to two consecutive terms. This
occurred while William J. Clinton served as President of the United States
for a period of two terms. Then, in 2001, his son was elected President
of the United States by a very slim margin, in a hotly contested election,
that many have claimed was “fixed.” Let me state clearly at this point,
that I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, but an independent. Many
years ago, I was a very strong supporter and active participant in the
Republican Party. It is not my intention to herein malign either Party;
as such, I won’t enter into speculation on those matters. I am more interested
in truth than I am in partisan politics, and as far as I know the crime
of murder has no statute of limitations. Not even for the rich and powerful.
Likewise, I remain extremely concerned over the sanity of this individual
and the possible violence that could be done to this great nation as
a result of his obedience to, and history of committing murder, based
on what “the stars” tell him to do.

The Assassin-King Plays from Shadow

At this point, I will leave the rest of the story for you to unravel.
But I will assist you by helping to point the way. To understand current
events, it must be understood that this man’s son reckons himself as
being represented by the planet Neptune (god of the sea). When understood
in this light, the hotly contested election can be better understood.
On Nov. 7, 2000, the planet Neptune had begun its final move into the
constellation of Capricorn, (the sea-goat). To understand what I mean
by “final move,” you will need to review the concept of “retrograde motion”
of the planets. Likewise, it is helpful to understand that Uranus, in
Greek mythology, was the primeval sky god who was both son and husband
of Gaia, the goddess of the earth; thus, Uranus can be seen to represent
environmentalists, conservationists, and, by extension, the Democratic
Party, as well as Albert Gore. At the time of the election, Uranus had
begun its final movement in exiting the constellation. On Tues., Dec.
12, the day the election was decided, Uranus completed its exit of the
constellation Capricorn. At the same time Neptune, the god of the sea,
entered Capricorn on its final occasion. On the day of the inauguration
(Jan. 20, 2001), Neptune was completely in Capricorn and the Sun had
begun to move into Capricorn; this would seem to represent a coronation
of sorts. At the time of this election, the so-called god of war was
in the constellation of Libra, bringing warfare and violence to the scales
of justice.

JFK’s murderer is still very much “the power behind the throne.” As
such, you might be interested in looking into where the planet Mars was
located before, during, and after Sept. 11th, 2001. Likewise, it is
also interesting to see where Mars been located since 2/27/03, and when
he will be exiting that constellation. If you understand what that constellation
represents, i.e., what he/it is doing, and further understand what the
Moon represents, you will find very interesting things on the morning
of Sept. 11th, 2001 in the constellation Gemini, the Twins. Likewise,
the location of Mars, and the motion of the Moon in the days leading
up to 9/11 is very informative.

I would also encourage you to understand the significance of the date
March 19, 2003. It was the day prior to the Spring Equinox. At that
time, and over the midnight hour, we heralded in Spring, as well as the
Chinese “Year of the Goat,” by beginning the attack on Iraq. I would
bet that most people believe our attack was delayed because of the negotiations
and political nonsense at the UN. That, however, was merely the cover;
the wool that is pulled over the eyes, so to speak.

Conclusion

I am truly at a loss as to how I should conclude, as I have left so much
unsaid. At this point, I can only pray this message will find its way
into the hands of enough people who understand its value, and who are
willing to fight to the point of bloodshed for their liberty, and the
values that are contained within our Constitution.

I can only hope that enough people will hunger and thirst to understand
these things, and that they will refuse to let injustice and murder
go unpunished. For if they do not, this nation, and the values of liberty
and freedom that are guaranteed within its Constitution, will perish
at the hands of those who would make themselves like God.

I have faith that all of these matters will come into light, and that
this great nation, that was conceived in the womb of liberty and by the
blood of its martyrs, will no longer go blindly into bondage, nor let
its Constitution and its Declaration of Independence from the tyrannical
powers of oppression be taken away without a fight.

Freedom is not free. Liberty can only be protected and preserved by
those who serve the people of this great nation; by those who refuse
to bow before the gods of greed and power, and their own selfish interests.

I leave you with these thoughts:

Shall “We the people,” simply allow the rich and powerful to murder others
with impunity?

Shall “We the people,” grant them the right to hide their evil deeds
behind a veil of lies, while claiming they are “in the interests of national
security?”

Shall “We the people,” remain blind and indifferent to the ambitious
desires of evil men, and refuse to spill our own blood for the cause
of liberty, simply because we are too busy watching television?

Or shall “We the people,” abolish a Form of Government that has so clearly
become destructive to the interests of its governed? We are no longer
a nation that is governed by the principles of liberty and justice.
We have become a nation that is owned and controlled by the highest bidders,
a nation that blindly serves the self-interests of a powerful few.
It is “We the People,” that must re-institute a constitutional Government
that is truly “of the people, by the people, and for the people.”

“WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness — That
to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any
Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right
of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government
. ” — The US Declaration of Independence.

On November 22, 2003, let the people of this great nation gather together
and begin to do
the difficult things that must be done. The simple truth is that our
numbers are greater and that our wills are stronger. By our love of country
and by the principles of liberty we will overcome them.

We will gather on that day and remember that George H. W. Bush murdered
President John F.
Kennedy in cold blood, and that he and his son sit upon a stolen throne.

We will come in peace, yet we will come for war. We will gather stones,
and scatter them togehter. We will rise up to plant and we will also
pluck out.

Most of all, we will gather together for the very simple reason that
the blood of America’s martyrs is crying out, and demanding it of us.

I sincerely regret having waited so long, and that all I have to give
are these few words for the life of my country.

Respectfully yours,

-Radec
4757

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=image_1.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 3 image/jpeg name=image_2 copy.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 4 image/jpeg name=image_3 copy.jpg > ATTACHMENT part 5 image/jpeg name=image_4.jpg
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From: MARC <marc420emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Jeff or anyone, Application for Treatment at Iboga Therapy House
Date: April 15, 2003 at 4:19:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jeff,

Any application for treatment at Iboga Therapy House can be made to

sandra@ibogatherapyhouse.org

and the website is www.ibogatherapyhouse.org

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House
—– Original Message —–
From: ITSONLYME333@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:23 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] No Subject

Hi,
Does anyone know how I can contact Mark at the Iboga Therapy House in Vancouver??? I sure would appreciate an email address, or a phone number, or both. Thank you very much!
Sincerely,
Jeff

From: <ode2ptolemy@hushmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] The man who killed Kennedy
Date: April 15, 2003 at 9:19:27 AM EDT
To: bpress@sbc.net, ibogaine@mindvox.com, abredin@bredinbi.com
Cc: broderd@washpost.com, jbrown@tampatrib.com, dale@dauten.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Man Who Murdered JFK

Introduction

In little more than seven months, it will be the 40th anniversary of
the assassination of John F. Kennedy. I am an old man now, and because
of the fact that cancer is about to do away with me, I am no longer very
concerned over what happens to me from here on out.  My wife and son
are already gone, and the so-called “experts” only give me another four
months or so before I pass on.  As such, I’ve made up my mind that I
don’t intend to pass away without divulging what I know; what I know
is the identity of the person who planned and carried out the assassination
of John Fitzgerald Kennedy on November 22, 1963.  The reason I know the
identity of this person is because I was there that day and I was watching
him.  I had been watching him for about two years at that point for reasons
I won’t go in to.  He, however, has never been aware of this fact.

I won’t go into all “the why’s and the wherefores” of John’s assassination;
a good number of folks have already spent a lot of time trying to figure
it all out and explain it.  Basically, there were a variety of reasons
he was assassinated; most of them are pretty well wrapped up and sitting
on the local library shelves.  I’ve been waiting a good number of years
for someone to uncover the unifying element behind this heinous crime;
but since they haven’t, I guess the task falls on me.  Or rather, it
fell on me 40 years ago that day in Dallas.  Perhaps that is why the
good Lord has had me hanging on for all these years.

To start off, it’s important to understand that John’s murder was, and
remains, a conspiracy of the highest order.  I hope that you are already
aware of at least that much.
Likewise, it’s vital to understand that I know who killed John F. Kennedy
because I was in the area of the kill-zone that day, and that I saw and
recognized the man who coordinated and carried out this evil deed.  I’m
not some sort of “conspiracy theorist,” though his murder was certainly
a conspiracy.  Likewise, I’m not some left-wing nut with an axe to grind.
I’m simply offering the truth.  For reasons I won’t go in to, but can
be easily figured out, I had been keeping my eyes on him for a number
of years leading up to the assassination.  I caught wind of things that
were to come, so I watched closely and followed him there.

The two main reasons I never came forward before now have both died,
so I’m no longer overly concerned about what can be done to them. Likewise,
I am no longer worried about my own life, since I am passing away quickly.
I say this so that you can understand my reasons for remaining quiet
for so long, not to indicate that I am simply some paranoid old man who
has an overactive imagination.  I tell you this in order for you to understand
very clearly the power that this man still wields.  I have witnessed
it, I have understood it, and I have watched it grow for over 40 years
now.  I have seen what this individual and his murderous henchmen are
capable of, and exactly how powerful he is.  Do not underestimate what
he can and will do in order to carry out his plans.

After a long period of consideration following my diagnosis of Cancer,
I think I finally came to understand something about myself that I had
known all along.  I’m just a simple, kind-hearted sort of person that
finds it too damned hard to let sleeping dogs lie.  I guess forgetting
just isn’t possible when you see a man have his brains blown out and
sprayed all over his beautiful young wife.  If they would murder a President
of the United States with impunity, for a mixture of reasons that served
their own interests, what would they do to anyone else who got in their
way?  For me, this isn’t a rhetorical question.  I had the veil ripped
from my eyes the same week I turned 37.  Since that day, I have watched
these people dip their hands in blood almost continuously.  I couldn’t
even begin to estimate the number of innocent people they have murdered
since that day in Dallas.

Background

I’m not sure exactly how to explain it all, except to begin by saying
that the man who planned it all is still very much alive and completely
drunk with wealth and power.  I am not exaggerating when I say that his
control over world affairs is nearly unparalleled; and this isn’t just
a crank conspiracy theory, it’s merely the way that it is.  One of the
most important lessons that came out of the 60’s, culminated at Woodstock
(I was there as well), is that a group of individuals can be kept pacified
by simply giving them what they desire.  With enough drugs, alcohol,
and music, in the correct psychosocial environment, it is possible to
induce people to live in the mud, and sleep in the midst of their own
filth, and to do so happily.  This statement is not to be understood
as a personal denigration of these activities, but merely as a means
of illustration.  These, and other types of techniques, are much more
sophisticated today.  The most effective form of captivity and mind control
is that which cannot be clearly seen.  But I digress.

Essentially, I am simply stating that I really don’t have anything to
lose or gain at this point in my life, except for the peace that will
come by the unburdening of my soul.  Most likely, I will have passed
away in another four months or so; it is simply time for the truth to
come out once and for all.  All of the pieces are there; hopefully this
document will help to serve as a roadmap.

Just so you will understand, it is not, herein, my intention to reveal
my identity.  I have no interest in spending the rest of my short life
under this man’s watchful eyes.  Nor do I wish to have people contacting
me and/or harassing me day and night.  In addition, I do not wish to
bring any sort of emotional or stress-related harm upon those individuals
I have labored with over the years by having my professional reputation
attacked and vilified.  I have accomplished too much in my life to allow
harm to fall upon those whom I consider true friends and co-laborers.

Last, let me comment on the invariable question that will arise.  Where
are the pictures?  As difficult as it might be for people to accept,
you cannot imagine how difficult it was to discover that none of the
photographs I took that week had turned out.  I had taken my camera in
for repairs three weeks prior, due to an aperture problem.  I actually
shot a roll of film after it was returned to me that turned out fine.
That week in Dallas, however, the aperture problem reoccurred and all
of the photographs I thought I had taken I had not.

Knowledge and Understanding

You really don’t have to be a genius to figure all of this out, but I
will tell you at the outset that it’s going to seem a little crazy, especially
in this day and age.  All I am offering is the truth, and it is up to
you to walk through the door.  With that said, all you really need to
unravel this tale is the unifying theme which holds it all together.
This unifying theme is simply to understand that this murderer has lived
his entire life in obedience to the occult practice of astrology.  All
of the major decisions he has made in life have been predicated upon
this nonsense, and as a result, a lot of decent people have been murdered
over the years.  You will find it very useful to download a decent astronomy
program to verify everything that follows.  Likewise, I would also recommend
that you read up on Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Greek, and Roman mythology,
as well as gaining a basic understanding of astronomy and astrology.
Nonetheless, I will try to keep it simple and briefly explain things
as I go along.  In the interests of data transfer and bandwidth, however,
I will only provide enough images to get the ball rolling.
The rest will be up to you. Likewise, I won’t be going into some of the
more technical issues, or revealing the larger portion of what I know.
I figure there are still a few good investigative reporters still left,
as well as enough curious and intelligent individuals out there who
are capable of tracking these things down.  It is my hope that this “message
in a bottle,” so to speak, will find its way into the hands of enough
people and that it will begin to grow from there.  Perhaps justice in
this matter can still be served after all.  Only time can tell.  I make
no request for you to forward or share this with anyone; I leave that
up to you.  My only request is that you go through these things slowly,
thoughtfully, and carefully, in order to understand them.

To begin, it is vital to understand that our starting point is the planet
Mars.  The man who assassinated Kennedy sees himself as some sort of
god-king of old that is represented by the planet Mars, the god of war.
For the record, let me state unequivocally that I think astrology is
simply a bunch of nonsense.  I grew up in a simple Christian home, and
though I’ve done my share of sinning, I think astrology simply goes against
the Bible (as well as common sense). However, I am certainly not the
type to shove my beliefs down your throat; if you believe differently,
so be it.  I sincerely have no difficulty with people whose beliefs
and opinions are different than my own.  However, whether or not it is
right or wrong, it sure as hell isn’t right for someone to murder people
over, much less to chart the course of world events based upon what “the
stars” seem to be saying.

To save you some time, I’ll give you some of the basics before we get
started.  In astrology, as previously stated, Mars represents the god
of war.  Neptune, of course, represents the god of the sea, or the sea
itself. Venus, the goddess of love, is representative of friendship,
love, affection, and compassion. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, Venus
was also understood to represent Lucifer, who is the devil.

Before we delve into John Kennedy’s assassination, I will begin by showing
from whence this man sprung. In this way, you will see more easily those
things that come afterward.

Birth and Rebirth of an Assassin

The man that killed John Kennedy was born to a family of wealth and power
on June 12, 1924.  He graduated from school on the same day he became
a man, June 12, 1942.  He then enlisted in the US Navy, and received
his wings in June of 1943.  Between the years of 1943 and 1945, he served
as a pilot, flying torpedo bombers in World War II.

On September 2, 1944, he went on a bombing mission that targeted a Japanese
communications installation.  On that mission, he replaced his normal
turret gunner with his best friend, a man by the name of Lt. William
White.  His other crewmember that day was named Delaney; I don’t recall
his first name.  I believe this was the day that he committed his first
cold-blooded murders. His aircraft was hit by anti-aircraft fire during
this bombing run, but he reportedly completed his run; after he banked
away, he bailed out of his aircraft and it crashed into the Sea of Japan.
A US submarine that was in the area later rescued him.  He would later
claim that his aircraft’s wing was on fire, and that smoke was rolling
into the cockpit, and out of the aircraft itself.  As a result, he claimed
that he was unable to maintain his control of the aircraft.  He reported
that he hollered for his crew to bail out, and that he thought they had
gotten out.  In fact, after he escaped from his aircraft, he reported
that he saw at least one of them bail out, but that his chute didn’t
appear to open.  He, however, managed to escape safely, except for a
gash on his head. His two crewmembers were never found.

The main problem with this story is the only eyewitness recalled it very
differently. He was a gunner in the aircraft in front that had already
completed its bombing run.  He told me all he saw was a puff of smoke
come out of the wing, and that was it.  He was also surprised that the
pilot had bailed out and crashed his aircraft, instead of doing a water
landing like he had done a few months before. I found all of this out
later from the man that saw it occur.  He had a very clear view of what
happened, and he only saw one person bailed out.  He also told me that
there sure wasn’t a lot of smoke rolling out of the aircraft like the
man claimed many years later.  I have the man’s name somewhere in the
pile of notes and documents I have collected over the years, but I haven’t
been able to locate it yet.  However, I also ran across it some time
ago on the Internet.

This is where the first astrology discourse comes in.  It might sound
a bit outlandish, so take it with a grain of salt, check it yourself,
and read the rest of what I have written before making up your mind.

In image #1 is the location of Mars, the god of war, on Sept. 2, 1944,
the day he splashed his bomber in the Sea of Japan. In this image (and
subsequent images), the planets move