Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-02

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nicks22@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?
Date: February 29, 2004 at 5:07:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Was J supervised at the time? Seems like an unusual reaction as by 38
hours, it’s good to have a bit of food. What kind of food was it, do you
know?
When patients go more than 72 hours without food, the glucose levels
drop and a person can fall into unconsciousness.

Thanks for the information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

Hi Marc,

As I recall, he ate a fried egg sandwich. You have to appreciate that the
person carrying out the treatment was a friend of the deceased with limited
medical experience. She was doing what she thought best, having carried out
a detox previously on an alcoholic which seemed to have worked well, as I
recall. A guy from Indra was in town at the time and he was hailing the
Danish iboga extract (used in these treatments) pretty much as some kind of
miracle cure. People believed him, because they wanted to, and because at
the time few deaths were known about. After this death, which was widely
publicized, a lot of things changed in the lay treatment world and ibogaine
became better recognized as potentially pretty dangerous.

The guy who died was very severely wasted, apparently incapable of following
rehab strategies, and not realistically expected to live so long anyway. The
young woman who provided the treatment was very idealistic and quite
shattered by the experience. She still had the guts to attend the inquest
and face the family which was really something. It was a tragic incident,
but one which also did a lot to wake people up to the dangers of using the
drug. Had it not happened maybe things could have turned out a lot worse.
Who’s to say?

all the best

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nicks22@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UK government drugs strategy
Date: February 29, 2004 at 4:31:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UK government drugs strategy

[cut]

As to the restricting of ibogaine in the UK, can you tell us at what stage
this has progressed?  I was very disappointed to learn that a month after
I
presented at the Invitational Conference on Drug User Activism in
Copenhagen,
http://www.doraweiner.org/e_w_report.html , ibogaine was restricted in
that
country.  I have attempted to obtain some explanation as to this
restricting but,
none has been forthcoming thus far.  There was some report of a
psychologist/psychiatrist treating a patient with ibogaine with whom he
had had a sexual
liaison and that the patient committed suicide during a session by jumping
out of a
window but, I have not seen the article that would be in the Danish
language.
Personally, I am dubious about the matter and the reason for the action.
For whatever reason, there are people that do not want heroin users to be
self
empowering and that is something that ibogaine would do.

When you link to http://www.doraweiner.org/e_w_report.html you can then
link
to the brochure that was presented during the conference in Copenhagen.
As
this may have been the cause of the Danish government response to ibogaine
you
might want to see what gave them concern. Just scroll down or click on the
Exhibits link and click on the conference brochure link or
http://www.doraweiner.org/contentsbf.html.

On the other hand with the UK moving against Colin Brewer who knows what
is
going on.  This is too strange for me.

Howard

Hi Howard,

The only thing the UK gov is doing about ibogaine at the moment, to the best
of my knowledge (which isn’t exhaustive), is this…

http://www.mca.gov.uk/ourwork/licensingmeds/herbalmeds/herbingredientreview.
pdf

…a move to restrict the sale of Tabernanthe iboga, apparently following
the Jan 2000 death in London. As far as I’m aware it hasn’t got very far
yet, and the last time I asked the MCA (Medicines Control Agency), about 18
months ago, they commented that it could take ages, as I recall. I’ll ask
them again, anyway, and see what they say. As I recall, they were also
unsure as to how any such moves would affect ibogaine itself.

All the best

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 29, 2004 at 7:53:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not only are smokers more likely to start doing other
drugs, but recovering addicts who smoke are more likely to relapse than
nonsmokers.<

The first residential treatment program I was enrolled in way back in the
80s informed us druggies that if we were smokers we shouldn’t even consider
quitting smoking while getting off the other drugs (or even all that soon
after getting off those other drugs) as our bodies and brains would be
unable to tell the difference between cravings and the withdrawals from
nicotine could very well drive us to use other drugs.
But the above bit about smokers and non- makes me wonder about the
reasons for that assertion by the treatment pimps now.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy.  If
possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time.  We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

How can anyone say that? It is up to what the person wants and not you,
If
possible, if they are ready to stop anything that is up to them. with or
without Iboga.
By saying that you are looking for disappointments.
How can you say cigarettes is a gateway to  other addiction.
Where is a research that made you think that way? What makes you think
that
way?
Maybe people who smoke have a consumers mentality?maybe ,I think.

Actually, there is some research to support the idea that tobacco acts as
a gateway drug. Not only are smokers more likely to start doing other
drugs, but recovering addicts who smoke are more likely to relapse than
nonsmokers. Presumably it has to do with, at least in part, the dopamine
release that nicotine causes. One might think that if the pleasure/reward
circuit is still being activated in a similar manner to the way the drug
of abuse did, the behavioural consequence might be to seek out the drug of
abuse.

I have also read at least a few accounts of ibogaine takers who have said
that an unexpected consequence of taking it was that they ceased wanting
cigarettes as well.

I also don’t see anything in what Marc said where he says they force
people to quit smoking. He says if possible, they want them to do it.
Which seems perfectly reasonable; if you’re running a therapeutic program,
I’d say you’re obligated to at least suggest things to your clients that
would benefit their recovery, and their health in general. If you fail to
do that, I think you are doing your clients a great disservice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 29, 2004 at 6:46:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

www.vegetaux.com

The site loaded for me and looked nice actually. However there didn’t seem
to be any prices listed or any possibility of buying anything. Maybe the
person coordinating this site could get in touch with me off list.

Thanks

Hattie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Good deeds in evil time.
Date: February 29, 2004 at 3:12:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Boaz, for your great deed of Mitzvah.

I pray to Hashem to keep you and your family in good health and prosperity.  (Am Israel Chai.)

love

Sara.
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] favorite message of all time #2
Date: February 28, 2004 at 8:27:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is my second favorite message which is from Crashtestdummies when
all of Mindvox comes online for a hour or day before they take it back
down.

My third favorite is Bruce Fancher posting notices to Mindvox that I’m
looking for right now, that say ‘if anyone has seen my partner alive in
the last 10 months please let me know, I shut off his credit cards last
year which is the only thing that ever gets his attention but it didn’t
work. If anyone knows which prison he is in if he’s alive, please let
me know’

🙂 🙂 🙂

These are awesome!

Patrick this is the shortest message I have ever seen you type, you’re
still a junkie in this one aren’t you? You don’t have anything to say
when you’re on heroin 🙂

.:vector:.

Path: digital
Newsgroups: mindvox.inner-circle.Convergence
Subject: …/\^ ^/\…
From: digital@mindvox.com (Patrick K. Kroupa)
Message-ID: <mukwie1w165w@mindvox.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 15:45:33 EST
Organization: MindVox

[Your Attention Please]: 98.4% Systems Failure

[Suspended Animation Terminated]

<HzzzZzzzZ> Uhm…  1998…?

HEY, who dumped ibogaine into my heroin…

Patrick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] favorite message 1
Date: February 28, 2004 at 8:27:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla you inspired me to search through my favorite messages folder. I
have 480 messages that I really liked, I think they may be different
then yours, I didn’t save any of the wussy recovery ones 🙂

This is my favorite message to the list which I reposted here years ago
when I still had email on space.com 🙂 🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, May 14, 2002 at 09:37:15PM -0700], [vector6@space.com]
wrote:

| From: alexis@panix.com (Alexis Rosen)
| Newsgroups: panix.chat
| Subject: A last dying gasp from the anklebiters (more history)
| Date: 6 Nov 2000 00:25:43 -0500
| Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
|
| [This will mostly be amusing to old-timers from 1992-1994]
|
| This evening I called AT&T, the company that services my Visa card,
to
| refuse a charge (for a broken toy I sent back, details not
important).
|
| The last time I spoke to them was, it appears, seven or eight years
ago.
| How do I know this? Because, when they asked me what my mother’s
maiden
| name was, and I answered, the woman very politely said “No, that’s
not
| it. It begins with an ‘M'”.
|
| This was more than a little startling to me, since my mother has
not
| changed her name, and even if she were to do so, I don’t see how
she
| could change her *maiden* name.
|
| How bad is their security? The AT&T rep asked for my Social
Security number
| and date of birth. As soon as I did so she was able to change the
maiden
| name info (which, she said, can also be any password you like). I
picked
| something new, and deleted the DOB info so this couldn’t be done
again.
|
| Obviously, someone else had called in, provided my SSID and DOB,
and
| changed that password. So how do I know when this was done? Because
she
| told me that the password was… “Mindvox”!
|
| Gee. What an awesome “hack”. I’d grovel before the 7331 dudes, if
only I
| could find them, but they’ve all dried up and blown away, and their

| spritiual heirs are all trading warez in IRC, which I don’t use…
|
| /a

I replied to that like 2 years ago.  I still don’t understand what
the
hell his problem is.  A funny joke fell through a hole in time, and
emerged on the other side of the statute of limitations.  Aside from
which, I have no idea who would have done such a thing; probably some
immature person who was really wasted at 3am, sitting in a room with
other
immature people and giggling a lot.

Still, I fail to see the inspiration for this complaint.  Did THOSE
PEOPLE
— whomever they are — steal anything from him?  Did they take his
credit
cards, call an escort service, and order a hooker to his house while
his
wife is home…?  No, they just changed his mom’s name to MindVox…
I
don’t see the problem.  MindVox is a GREAT name, if I met a chick
named
MindVox, I would exert great effort to make her my next ex-wife.

Patrick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ahtung! — Yo … Read Me
Date: February 28, 2004 at 7:37:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yesterday there was an infected attachment named ‘price list’ that landed in everyone’s box. I did not send it, my puter is not infected. The infected puter has my addy in the book and the virus chose my address to use as the sender.
I encourage everyone to scan attachments before opening them or don’t open them at all.
Peace! Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:44:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jon You are right, there are ways to look at things ,some time I feel
like a stupid dreamer  but I’m not the only one.

But as I see it, any consumer mentality can lead to a new addiction.
Smoking is only one of them, yes it can, but anything that is pleasurable
can do the same, so smoking cannabis too unless it is used medically.
But also there are other addiction who aren’t looked at as addiction but
are. Like sports , fame, rave parties, TV and face lifting .
So if you keep on doing all of that you may become an addict again to
What’s your Kick ?
As long as we have an ego we may like to do things,
One research will show + and the other will show -.one will say no global
warming the other the risk of global warming.
We all have a different program in our computers.
Iboga cleans the hard drive only, then until you get all your software
In the computer it takes time, 5 days treatment  will not be enough
to do both.
10 years of treatment in one day.

When I give Iboga/Ibogaine to a grown up person I let them know before that
they can quit anything they dislike doing to themselves
I think that each person is his own teacher they know or they don’t
They understand or not, they listen or not they pay the treatment or not,
The lie or not , I’m not lifting my finger to anyone.

I’m like A graffiti, write but not always RIGHT.

ANY CRITICS IS AN INSPIRATION.

So, there are many disable people in U.S.A lucky them, they have a computer
to communicate with world. Maybe they have a kick looking at porn? That’s
addictive too.

I have 5 school going kids two treatments coming and full on house keeping
and a full on rheumatic pains.
I wish, I had more time to play around with the computer some addictive
game.

For me chocolate ice cream does it. as I said I’m an addict to anything that
starts with the letter C.
I’m not a saint or pure or trying to be one of them.

I have done my turn on this computer,

Be well,Don’t Smoke unless it is pure pot.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon freedlander [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: zaterdag 28 februari 2004 19:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy.  If
possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time.  We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

How can anyone say that? It is up to what the person wants and not you, If
possible, if they are ready to stop anything that is up to them. with or
without Iboga.
By saying that you are looking for disappointments.
How can you say cigarettes is a gateway to  other addiction.
Where is a research that made you think that way? What makes you think
that
way?
Maybe people who smoke have a consumers mentality?maybe ,I think.

Actually, there is some research to support the idea that tobacco acts as
a gateway drug. Not only are smokers more likely to start doing other
drugs, but recovering addicts who smoke are more likely to relapse than
nonsmokers. Presumably it has to do with, at least in part, the dopamine
release that nicotine causes. One might think that if the pleasure/reward
circuit is still being activated in a similar manner to the way the drug
of abuse did, the behavioural consequence might be to seek out the drug of
abuse.

I have also read at least a few accounts of ibogaine takers who have said
that an unexpected consequence of taking it was that they ceased wanting
cigarettes as well.

I also don’t see anything in what Marc said where he says they force
people to quit smoking. He says if possible, they want them to do it.
Which seems perfectly reasonable; if you’re running a therapeutic program,
I’d say you’re obligated to at least suggest things to your clients that
would benefit their recovery, and their health in general. If you fail to
do that, I think you are doing your clients a great disservice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ahtung! — Yo … Read Me
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:11:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sat, Feb 28, 2004 at 08:30:35PM +0000], [ganjacat@ganjacat.net] wrote:

Uhm, yet another Windoze virus.

People, if you run Windoze, please get some kind of virus checking program
and don’t spread this shit all over the place.  There is already an
absolute fucking mountain of this crap that bounces in and out of here
every day; but at present people who are SUBSCRIBED to THIS LIST, can send
images, attachments and Other Crap…

Please don’t put me in a position where I hafta grind the load average up
another .8 notches, scan all the fucking email to the lists; or just
disallow attachments.

Danke schoen,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ganjacat@ganjacat.net
Subject: [ibogaine] Ahtung!
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:30:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “ARON KAY” <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:13:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey we are dealing with a tendency known as “bealitosis”

ARON KAY-http://www.pieman.org
BONGS NOT BOMBS
BUSH OUT THE DOOR!ON OR  BEFORE 2004
—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news

> On [Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 04:57:25PM -0800], [Carla Barnes] wrote:
>
> | Patrick, you’re not allowed to write 10 funny
> | paragraphs that let Dana off the hook like you usually
> | do so everyone stops talking about it! Or you are, but
> | it won’t help!
>
> Carla, okay, ONE WORD!  Well, I mean, I’m opening the sentence using
> another three, but once you’ve assimilated those, you can just erase them
> from your mind, ‘cuz they’re really not part of the actual CONTENT!
>
> [It was a] TYPO!
>
> Dana, I am shocked, aghast, and very disturbed that the Daily News would
> print such drivel — which you obviously never said.  Is their entire fact
> checking department on vacation?
>
> Personally, it’s COMPLETELY OBVIOUS to me that you should sue the NY Daily
> News for causing irreparable harm to your solid reputation as an activist,
> journalist, author, and all-around authority on … many things!
>
> Perhaps the NY Daily News is in actuality a unit of Clear Channel or the
> Conde Nast Empire(R).  Everything seems to be.  While I haven’t bothered
> to look this up; FACTS only get in the way of things!  You should sue the
> NY Daily News, Clear Channel AND Conde Nast.  Because probably it’s all
> part of the same conspiracy that MURDERED Abbie Hoffman AND Tom Forcade.
> Two suicides…  Coincidence?  I think not!
>
> | Dana other then being wrong about almost everything
> | you said about the csi episode which I thought was
> | boring but good as far as explaining ibogaine, but
> | you’ve never said you were ever a cocaine and
> | amphetamine addict? If you were, you very imply here
> | that ibogaine freed you from addiction. Except you’ve
> | never taken ibogaine! I have seen Patrick, Marko,
> | others on this list all nudge fun at you for talking
> | and talking and talking about ibogaine but you won’t
> | do it!!
>
> Look, Dana has mentioned — repeatedly, in public, and on camera — that
> he plans to do ibogaine ANY MINUTE NOW … as soon as he has a spare
> moment or three.
>
> Dana, just make sure you get the hell out of your house before you trip,
> or I can already tell you, you’re going straight to hell; whoopsie, no,
> wait, I meant to say: go to a REPUTABLE IBOGAINE TREATMENT PROVIDER!
> Yeah, that was it.
>
> Plus, also, don’t kill yourself!  Medical testing is very important, so,
> ya know, check to see if you still have any of your liver left; if yes,
> and you’ve still got a heartbeat and are breathing occasionally … well,
> CLOSE ENOUGH!  Down the hatch it goes!@#!@#!@#
>
> No, wait, I didn’t say that either, I meant to say, what did I mean to
> say, oh yeah: why don’t you just call Howard!  I’m sure he’ll offer you
> some sage advice, “Dana … what the hell is wrong with you, just do it
> already!”  No, I meant to say, oh … fuck this, I give up!
>
> | Dana Why not do ibogaine?
>
> Because the Bwiti would tell him to clean up his house!  Plus, also, 45
> cats is AT LEAST 25 too many!
>
> And, uhm, Dana … ya know, one of these days Aivia is going to whack you
> over the head with a baseball bat…  And she’ll have many good reasons
> for taking this action.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>
>

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:23:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 04:57:25PM -0800], [Carla Barnes] wrote:

| Patrick, you’re not allowed to write 10 funny
| paragraphs that let Dana off the hook like you usually
| do so everyone stops talking about it! Or you are, but
| it won’t help!

Carla, okay, ONE WORD!  Well, I mean, I’m opening the sentence using
another three, but once you’ve assimilated those, you can just erase them
from your mind, ‘cuz they’re really not part of the actual CONTENT!

[It was a] TYPO!

Dana, I am shocked, aghast, and very disturbed that the Daily News would
print such drivel — which you obviously never said.  Is their entire fact
checking department on vacation?

Personally, it’s COMPLETELY OBVIOUS to me that you should sue the NY Daily
News for causing irreparable harm to your solid reputation as an activist,
journalist, author, and all-around authority on … many things!

Perhaps the NY Daily News is in actuality a unit of Clear Channel or the
Conde Nast Empire(R).  Everything seems to be.  While I haven’t bothered
to look this up; FACTS only get in the way of things!  You should sue the
NY Daily News, Clear Channel AND Conde Nast.  Because probably it’s all
part of the same conspiracy that MURDERED Abbie Hoffman AND Tom Forcade.
Two suicides…  Coincidence?  I think not!

| Dana other then being wrong about almost everything
| you said about the csi episode which I thought was
| boring but good as far as explaining ibogaine, but
| you’ve never said you were ever a cocaine and
| amphetamine addict? If you were, you very imply here
| that ibogaine freed you from addiction. Except you’ve
| never taken ibogaine! I have seen Patrick, Marko,
| others on this list all nudge fun at you for talking
| and talking and talking about ibogaine but you won’t
| do it!!

Look, Dana has mentioned — repeatedly, in public, and on camera — that
he plans to do ibogaine ANY MINUTE NOW … as soon as he has a spare
moment or three.

Dana, just make sure you get the hell out of your house before you trip,
or I can already tell you, you’re going straight to hell; whoopsie, no,
wait, I meant to say: go to a REPUTABLE IBOGAINE TREATMENT PROVIDER!
Yeah, that was it.

Plus, also, don’t kill yourself!  Medical testing is very important, so,
ya know, check to see if you still have any of your liver left; if yes,
and you’ve still got a heartbeat and are breathing occasionally … well,
CLOSE ENOUGH!  Down the hatch it goes!@#!@#!@#

No, wait, I didn’t say that either, I meant to say, what did I mean to
say, oh yeah: why don’t you just call Howard!  I’m sure he’ll offer you
some sage advice, “Dana … what the hell is wrong with you, just do it
already!”  No, I meant to say, oh … fuck this, I give up!

| Dana Why not do ibogaine?

Because the Bwiti would tell him to clean up his house!  Plus, also, 45
cats is AT LEAST 25 too many!

And, uhm, Dana … ya know, one of these days Aivia is going to whack you
over the head with a baseball bat…  And she’ll have many good reasons
for taking this action.

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] We need need more, not less, advocacy
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:40:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We need need more, not less, advocacyDana wrote >You shouldn’t ought to have
to take Ibogaine in order to publicly advocate it for addiction. If that is
your position, no politician will ever be able to support it on its merits
alone.<

Maybe I shouldn’t pipe up here, but I agree wholeheartedly with Dana here. I
can’t understand why someone would insist that someone else take ibogaine or
not promote its use when that person can see for his own eyes that it works
for a good number of people, even those he’s close to. Why in the heck
shouldn’t Dana be promoting ibogaine for those who want to try it? I’m
completely at a loss over this one. Is it a clique or something? What gives
with that?
And Dana’s right also in that Cures-Not-Wars and Dana himself do more
promoting of ibogaine than just about anyone I’ve ever heard of over any
span of time. There are newer voices in the mix nowadays, but so far as I
know, he’s non-stop about it and has been for as long as I’ve known him.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:48 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] We need need more, not less, advocacy

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal
advocate.

I’m waiting.to do it now. I never had a bona fide medical reason for doing
it before. Now I have to see if the anti-cyst effect (it worked on my
daughter) will obviate the need for surgery.

It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your picture in the
paper.

They insisted on a picture. However, it did immediately re-enforce my
standing with elected officials, and people who are influenced by publicity.

One of the main points of starting the Million Marijuana March after
finishing THE IBOGAINE STORY was to vastly INCREASE OUR INFLUENCE by
marshalling all the supporters of market separation of pot and hard drugs
into an international platform for dissemination of drug policy reform ideas
(Ibogaine, in other words) different from and  alternative to DPA, NORML,
MPP, etc–all groups that were giving Ibo short shrift.

It was dishonest to imply that ibogaine freed you from a speed addiction.

You have it all wrong. Daily News staffers believe, along with most of the
media (and implicitly Stahl) that its a sine non qua qualification of any
lay person working in the addiction field to have quit drugs. I explicitly
told Elisa  Karasz that I had never been addict, only a user, because I was
able quit without relapsing the first time I tried. I also specified that my
speed use was in the ’60’s and that I stopped coke in the early ’80’s– long
before Ibogaine finally became available again–after drying up by the time
Howard Lotsof came back from Nepal and couldn’t find any, and had to go into
the first methadone program.

(I did not tell her I quit coke after my mother’s daughter spiked my coke
with acid because she was concerned that I was doing too much–but she never
asked. And anyway, all psychedelics are gateway drugs, not just
pot–right?!? I clearly told her I did not use Ibogaine to quit drugs.}

For years our advocacy of ibogaine was hobbled by the popular misconception
that advocates of the Dutch system were just a bunch of potheads–and of
course the only people SERIOUS about addiction were all 12 step antipotniks.
It took medical marijuana to overcome that, and to some extent it remains to
be overcome.

CSI at least made an effort to talk with people who have experienced it. I
did encourage them to do it, but hey, tv writers are not ibogaine advocates.

My basic objection still stands–which the NEWS did not include, because
they were more intrigued about the part about Ibogaine being like sleep
paralysis (what it was LIKE being more important to them than how this was
going to play out with treatment providers). For Jerry’s plot to work,
Ibogaine had to be found in a car as part of a murder investigation. And
that meant you had to have some one prowling back alleys like a drug dealer
looking to deliver Ibogaine to junkies. And THAT is what has the potential
to influence the DEA to investigate everyone who even publicizes Ibogaine,
in hopes that they’ll turn up some schedule I drugs. (Is that 5 years–or
10?)

Jerry Stahl, the writer, told me – and I believe him – that he had never
heard of Dana Beal or Cures not Wars before yesterday and did not base the
episode on him.

Not what I said. What I told the NEWS (since they were interested in a New
York angle) was that we’re the ones doing the local equivalent of the
Ibogaine outreach depicted in the episode–except that the episode has it
totally wrong, since the people doing it here, including myself, are all old
psychedelic veterans who scrupulously send people out of the country, and
tell their families if they want to get it here, they have to pick up the
phone, call their Congressman and tell him to legalize it.

Not only that, by virtue of the fact that MMM/cures not wars/the Yippies are
the biggest network promoting Ibogaine, most local efforts elsewhere to make
it available also make a big point of sending people outside the country–if
only to heighten the understanding that it’s legal almost everywhere else,
and because Marc’s clinic is free.  Marc is BTW the primary model we’re
promoting–i.e, the pot movement initiating ibogaine access, as part of
evolution of the movement toward market separation.

It’s been a retail effort, let me tell you, one city at a time, getting them
to take up the cause. Marc represents a kind of tipping point, because he
controls Cannabis Culture and POT TV, and has influenced a lot of people who
wouldn’t just take my word for it.

The fact is, if you or any drug addict encounters Ibogaine information, more
than 50% of the time, it’s through us. For instance, MMM activist Jay
Statzer finds an addict named Dimitri who goes to Sara, takes Indra, cleans
up, comes back to Detroit, runs a Greek  restaurant and decides to quit and
start an Ibogaine clinic in Windsor. That’s a lot more typical than the few
people who may have figured out how to smuggle Ibogaine into the U.S. and do
clandestine treatments.

Why would you do that, when it’s so much easier to smuggle back a person
who’s already been treated? And then there’s the consideration that going on
a trip to do it is part of the rite of passage…

And Jerry Stahl actually knows better, since all the people he encountered
in L.A. had been treated in the Mexican clinic. Of course then, there would
have been no plot for CSI. Accuracy be damned. I’m closing with a post from
Jay Statzer. I don’t know how many of our affilites actually emailed or
protested their local CBS afffiliate, but that was the idea.

Dana
Demo’d at WSBT CH 22 broadcast office Thur. afternoon. I think I was pretty
much on target with my guess as to how the ibogaine plot played out. My
signs said CSI TELLS A LIE? and 9:00 CH 22. The question mark allowed me to
play my protest as either a against CH 22 or as promoting the episode
depending on who I talked to. Got lots of people coming up to ask me about
the protest but no media, although I believe I gave the people in the
offices a good rattling. Suspecting that the episode wouldn’t be a pure
attack piece, I mostly got people to watch the episode and promoted the
Liberation Day event for South Bend. Also, I gave ibogaine brochures to
people interested in treatment and to some democratic party operatives that
were in an office across the street from WSBT (Kerry supporters.)
I have a copy of the episode but the very last line by the character Mindy
got cut off. Can anyone tell me what that last line was?? I am writing a
transcript of the episode from my tape today.
E’ya later,
God forgive America,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI

You shouldn’t ought to have to take Ibogaine in order to publicly advocate
it for addiction. If that is your position, no politician will ever be able
to support it on its merits alone.

Dana/cnw

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 28, 2004 at 1:54:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Dana Why not do ibogaine?

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal
advocate. It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your
picture in the paper.

I probably shouldn’t get involved in this petty argument; but that seems
silly.

I campaign for the pro-choice movement, but I’m obviously never going to
have an abortion…

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 28, 2004 at 1:48:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy.  If possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time.  We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

How can anyone say that? It is up to what the person wants and not you, If
possible, if they are ready to stop anything that is up to them. with or
without Iboga.
By saying that you are looking for disappointments.
How can you say cigarettes is a gateway to  other addiction.
Where is a research that made you think that way? What makes you think that
way?
Maybe people who smoke have a consumers mentality?maybe ,I think.

Actually, there is some research to support the idea that tobacco acts as
a gateway drug. Not only are smokers more likely to start doing other
drugs, but recovering addicts who smoke are more likely to relapse than
nonsmokers. Presumably it has to do with, at least in part, the dopamine
release that nicotine causes. One might think that if the pleasure/reward
circuit is still being activated in a similar manner to the way the drug
of abuse did, the behavioural consequence might be to seek out the drug of
abuse.

I have also read at least a few accounts of ibogaine takers who have said
that an unexpected consequence of taking it was that they ceased wanting
cigarettes as well.

I also don’t see anything in what Marc said where he says they force
people to quit smoking. He says if possible, they want them to do it.
Which seems perfectly reasonable; if you’re running a therapeutic program,
I’d say you’re obligated to at least suggest things to your clients that
would benefit their recovery, and their health in general. If you fail to
do that, I think you are doing your clients a great disservice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] We need need more, not less, advocacy
Date: February 28, 2004 at 12:48:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal advocate.

I’m waiting.to do it now. I never had a bona fide medical reason for doing it before. Now I have to see if the anti-cyst effect (it worked on my daughter) will obviate the need for surgery.

It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your picture in the paper.

They insisted on a picture. However, it did immediately re-enforce my standing with elected officials, and people who are influenced by publicity.

One of the main points of starting the Million Marijuana March after finishing THE IBOGAINE STORY was to vastly INCREASE OUR INFLUENCE by marshalling all the supporters of market separation of pot and hard drugs into an international platform for dissemination of drug policy reform ideas (Ibogaine, in other words) different from and  alternative to DPA, NORML, MPP, etc–all groups that were giving Ibo short shrift.

It was dishonest to imply that ibogaine freed you from a speed addiction.

You have it all wrong. Daily News staffers believe, along with most of the media (and implicitly Stahl) that its a sine non qua qualification of any lay person working in the addiction field to have quit drugs. I explicitly told Elisa  Karasz that I had never been addict, only a user, because I was able quit without relapsing the first time I tried. I also specified that my speed use was in the ’60’s and that I stopped coke in the early ’80’s– long before Ibogaine finally became available again–after drying up by the time Howard Lotsof came back from Nepal and couldn’t find any, and had to go into the first methadone program.

(I did not tell her I quit coke after my mother’s daughter spiked my coke with acid because she was concerned that I was doing too much–but she never asked. And anyway, all psychedelics are gateway drugs, not just pot–right?!? I clearly told her I did not use Ibogaine to quit drugs.}

For years our advocacy of ibogaine was hobbled by the popular misconception that advocates of the Dutch system were just a bunch of potheads–and of course the only people SERIOUS about addiction were all 12 step antipotniks. It took medical marijuana to overcome that, and to some extent it remains to be overcome.

CSI at least made an effort to talk with people who have experienced it. I did encourage them to do it, but hey, tv writers are not ibogaine advocates.

My basic objection still stands–which the NEWS did not include, because they were more intrigued about the part about Ibogaine being like sleep paralysis (what it was LIKE being more important to them than how this was going to play out with treatment providers). For Jerry’s plot to work, Ibogaine had to be found in a car as part of a murder investigation. And that meant you had to have some one prowling back alleys like a drug dealer looking to deliver Ibogaine to junkies. And THAT is what has the potential to influence the DEA to investigate everyone who even publicizes Ibogaine, in hopes that they’ll turn up some schedule I drugs. (Is that 5 years–or 10?)

Jerry Stahl, the writer, told me – and I believe him – that he had never heard of Dana Beal or Cures not Wars before yesterday and did not base the episode on him.

Not what I said. What I told the NEWS (since they were interested in a New York angle) was that we’re the ones doing the local equivalent of the Ibogaine outreach depicted in the episode–except that the episode has it totally wrong, since the people doing it here, including myself, are all old psychedelic veterans who scrupulously send people out of the country, and tell their families if they want to get it here, they have to pick up the phone, call their Congressman and tell him to legalize it.

Not only that, by virtue of the fact that MMM/cures not wars/the Yippies are the biggest network promoting Ibogaine, most local efforts elsewhere to make it available also make a big point of sending people outside the country–if only to heighten the understanding that it’s legal almost everywhere else, and because Marc’s clinic is free.  Marc is BTW the primary model we’re promoting–i.e, the pot movement initiating ibogaine access, as part of evolution of the movement toward market separation.

It’s been a retail effort, let me tell you, one city at a time, getting them to take up the cause. Marc represents a kind of tipping point, because he controls Cannabis Culture and POT TV, and has influenced a lot of people who wouldn’t just take my word for it.

The fact is, if you or any drug addict encounters Ibogaine information, more than 50% of the time, it’s through us. For instance, MMM activist Jay Statzer finds an addict named Dimitri who goes to Sara, takes Indra, cleans up, comes back to Detroit, runs a Greek  restaurant and decides to quit and start an Ibogaine clinic in Windsor. That’s a lot more typical than the few people who may have figured out how to smuggle Ibogaine into the U.S. and do clandestine treatments.

Why would you do that, when it’s so much easier to smuggle back a person who’s already been treated? And then there’s the consideration that going on a trip to do it is part of the rite of passage…

And Jerry Stahl actually knows better, since all the people he encountered in L.A. had been treated in the Mexican clinic. Of course then, there would have been no plot for CSI. Accuracy be damned. I’m closing with a post from Jay Statzer. I don’t know how many of our affilites actually emailed or protested their local CBS afffiliate, but that was the idea.

Dana
Demo’d at WSBT CH 22 broadcast office Thur. afternoon. I think I was pretty much on target with my guess as to how the ibogaine plot played out. My signs said CSI TELLS A LIE? and 9:00 CH 22. The question mark allowed me to play my protest as either a against CH 22 or as promoting the episode depending on who I talked to. Got lots of people coming up to ask me about the protest but no media, although I believe I gave the people in the offices a good rattling. Suspecting that the episode wouldn’t be a pure attack piece, I mostly got people to watch the episode and promoted the Liberation Day event for South Bend. Also, I gave ibogaine brochures to people interested in treatment and to some democratic party operatives that were in an office across the street from WSBT (Kerry supporters.)
I have a copy of the episode but the very last line by the character Mindy got cut off. Can anyone tell me what that last line was?? I am writing a transcript of the episode from my tape today.
E’ya later,
God forgive America,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI

You shouldn’t ought to have to take Ibogaine in order to publicly advocate it for addiction. If that is your position, no politician will ever be able to support it on its merits alone.

Dana/cnw

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] preferences
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:53:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the responses people…I’ll keep u posted.

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Paul,

“Is the root bark the best form to get it in?”

It depends. For someone trying to self-treat an addiction or a first (self) experience, not the best IMO. It is too variable in strength, from worthless to quality material, so make sure you are getting quality root bark not an iboga bush tossed in a chipper. Root bark would be more difficult for someone inexperienced to use, it is bulkier (try an oz of bark). A standardized extract of a known potency (which is all over the place, but seems to work) is Indra, you can also get HCL.  Extracts, bark vs Ibogaine HCL is a somewhat different experience. Indra (which should be similar to root bark) is a softer trip – at least in a given anti-addictive amount, somewhat more sickening – that is what I hear about bark, but worse. You could make an extract, it is really horrid stuff to try to consume, especially once the effects start setting in (think drinking a bucket of bitter vomit on a tossing ship in the worst storm imaginable, now multiply) HCL is a rougher trip (strapped to a rocket going inward), more “scary” (on the way up), breaks through better, Indra and I assume root bark (never did any) is more “real”, richer, fuller where HCL is a bit more cartoon-like in some visions (for lack of a better description). Any ibogaine used properly will work for visions, are VERY long, are VERY sickening, has an immense body load, takes a long time to recover (ah, and then… the glow begins) and is likely to be the most amazing and lucid experience of your life (done properly), do it wrong and you will scare the shit out of yourself, or worse. The after effects are better with HCL than Indra, more of a “glow”, better mood, recouperation is quicker,. HCL is better for small, quick doses (ie 2mg/kg), that are basically over in several hours, no “trip” but lots of nice effects that last for days – not as good with Indra -and I assume other full spectrum iboga products. Given the choice between the two verions (one being too soft, the other too hard) I would mix the 2, given the choice if I could only get one kind it would be ibogaine HCL. I personally had a harder time trying to use Indra to fight addiction unless I used a very high dose.. I hear of people that love good quality root bark, that the experience is richer, perhaps more than Indra which is 18 years old.

Get other opinions, the experience on ibogaine depends a lot on who you are and where you are at, the reasons you are taking it, set, setting etc and what you do after is more important than the type of ibogaine you use.  Once you are tripping on ibogaine (at altitude), you are pretty much tripping on ibogaine/iboga, there isn’t a lot of difference in the basic trip and side effects, one is bit better at this or that than the other.

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

Brett

Paul MacLennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

> Hey Howard,
>
> You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
> (And I read the french and english versions)
>
> I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique
>
> or here in English
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp
>
> the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
> and the ‘more info’ is a 404…
>
> Personally I find this site dubious.
>
> Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?
>
> Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
> with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
> is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
> info…
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
> > > anything
> > > but the opening page. Is anyone doing any better?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Howard
> > >
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:44:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Paul,

“Is the root bark the best form to get it in?”

It depends. For someone trying to self-treat an addiction or a first (self) experience, not the best IMO. It is too variable in strength, from worthless to quality material, so make sure you are getting quality root bark not an iboga bush tossed in a chipper. Root bark would be more difficult for someone inexperienced to use, it is bulkier (try an oz of bark). A standardized extract of a known potency (which is all over the place, but seems to work) is Indra, you can also get HCL.  Extracts, bark vs Ibogaine HCL is a somewhat different experience. Indra (which should be similar to root bark) is a softer trip – at least in a given anti-addictive amount, somewhat more sickening – that is what I hear about bark, but worse. You could make an extract, it is really horrid stuff to try to consume, especially once the effects start setting in (think drinking a bucket of bitter vomit on a tossing ship in the worst storm imaginable, now multiply) HCL is a rougher trip (strapped to a rocket going inward), more “scary” (on the way up), breaks through better, Indra and I assume root bark (never did any) is more “real”, richer, fuller where HCL is a bit more cartoon-like in some visions (for lack of a better description). Any ibogaine used properly will work for visions, are VERY long, are VERY sickening, has an immense body load, takes a long time to recover (ah, and then… the glow begins) and is likely to be the most amazing and lucid experience of your life (done properly), do it wrong and you will scare the shit out of yourself, or worse. The after effects are better with HCL than Indra, more of a “glow”, better mood, recouperation is quicker,. HCL is better for small, quick doses (ie 2mg/kg), that are basically over in several hours, no “trip” but lots of nice effects that last for days – not as good with Indra -and I assume other full spectrum iboga products. Given the choice between the two verions (one being too soft, the other too hard) I would mix the 2, given the choice if I could only get one kind it would be ibogaine HCL. I personally had a harder time trying to use Indra to fight addiction unless I used a very high dose.. I hear of people that love good quality root bark, that the experience is richer, perhaps more than Indra which is 18 years old.

Get other opinions, the experience on ibogaine depends a lot on who you are and where you are at, the reasons you are taking it, set, setting etc and what you do after is more important than the type of ibogaine you use.  Once you are tripping on ibogaine (at altitude), you are pretty much tripping on ibogaine/iboga, there isn’t a lot of difference in the basic trip and side effects, one is bit better at this or that than the other.

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

Brett

Paul MacLennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

> Hey Howard,
>
> You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
> (And I read the french and english versions)
>
> I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique
>
> or here in English
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp
>
> the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
> and the ‘more info’ is a 404…
>
> Personally I find this site dubious.
>
> Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?
>
> Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
> with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
> is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
> info…
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
> > > anything
> > > but the opening page. Is anyone doing any better?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Howard
> > >
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:20:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandra wrote: I think the “they” in question is NIDA and their comment was:

‘researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping
requirement standards that pertain to Schedule I substances'”

Yes, but you live in Canada where it isn’t Schedule 1 substance,
Why do you have to prove anything to The Americans?

I know that many people already published many Real Reason why Cannabis
&Ibogaine  and other herbs should be decriminalized/ legalized.
Is it ? why is real research with real researchers being ignored?
And yours wouldn’t be?
I wish you luck, maybe if the Prince of pot sign the papers everyone
Is going to listen and change the law. That will be wonderful indeed .

On the other hand (maybe it is just the journalist who  heard it wrong)
ITH said.
“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy.  If possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time.  We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

How can anyone say that? It is up to what the person wants and not you, If
possible, if they are ready to stop anything that is up to them. with or
without Iboga.
By saying that you are looking for disappointments.
How can you say cigarettes is a gateway to  other addiction.
Where is a research that made you think that way? What makes you think that
way?
Maybe people who smoke have a consumers mentality?maybe ,I think.
You are a researchers, Maybe the only two of you in this world with license,
did you study about what is serotonin ?
Did you study how it feels to gain serotonins, especially for an addict
after taking Iboga.
When you do that first, you would know that SOME FOOD THAT ISN’T GOOD FOR
you
FEELS REALLY NICE AFTER TAKING Iboga.And people Just love it.

What feels nice doesn’t have to be healthy/unhealthy.
It feels good when increases the serotonin in the blood.

Look if you claim “At this stage, with little scientific study, the true
toxicology of ibogaine is impossible to determine – the treatment is
unlicensed in other countries and illegal in the US.  The decision whether
or not to take such a risk is entirely personal.”

1.  It sounds like  Mash doesn’t exist. or all the other people who worked
for years with Ibogaine.
2.What kind of risk?

3.Do you have license? How? You and Marc aren’t medical Doctors,
Is it the political connection you have , or just like in India you can buy
one?
4. why would you want to find out the toxicology of Ibogaine if you worked
with Iboga at the time which is another 18 active alkaloids.(Or more)
You have a lot of work if you want to know that.

5. if there is a risk. Why would you take it Sandra?

I think it can be more fun to write a research about how to confuse
journalist and have them write Bollix. In a serious newspaper.
Cheers

Sara Glatt

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:05:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/28/04 1:05:36 AM, carlambarnes@yahoo.com writes:

Howard, I now feel bad for even saying I thought the
only part of the ‘Deborah and Patrick show’ I didn’t
like was her not mentioning you and I thought it was
tacky. Everyone does the same thing except not so
well.

I didn’t supply everyone with pharmaceutical grade ibogaine for their FDA
study.  What I don’t understand is why you feel bad.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 27, 2004 at 9:57:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana Why not do ibogaine?

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal advocate. It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your picture in the paper.

It was dishonest to imply that ibogaine freed you from a speed addiction.

CSI at least made an effort to talk with people who have experienced it. I did encourage them to do it, but hey, tv writers are not ibogaine advocates.

Jerry Stahl, the writer, told me – and I believe him – that he had never heard of Dana Beal or Cures not Wars before yesterday and did not base the episode on him.

_________________________________________________________________
Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: GERMAN3G@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] cancel me now
Date: February 27, 2004 at 9:35:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is German3G@aol.com

Cancel me NOW

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price-list
Date: February 27, 2004 at 8:21:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did NOT send this e-mail to the list. DO NOT download the attatchment!!!!!!!

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:57:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, I now feel bad for even saying I thought the
only part of the ‘Deborah and Patrick show’ I didn’t
like was her not mentioning you and I thought it was
tacky. Everyone does the same thing except not so
well.

Dana other then being wrong about almost everything
you said about the csi episode which I thought was
boring but good as far as explaining ibogaine, but
you’ve never said you were ever a cocaine and
amphetamine addict? If you were, you very imply here
that ibogaine freed you from addiction. Except you’ve
never taken ibogaine! I have seen Patrick, Marko,
others on this list all nudge fun at you for talking
and talking and talking about ibogaine but you won’t
do it!!

Why? Don’t you want to see what it’s like?

Patrick, you’re not allowed to write 10 funny
paragraphs that let Dana off the hook like you usually
do so everyone stops talking about it! Or you are, but
it won’t help!

Dana Why not do ibogaine?

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Get it while you can.  A Dana/CSI article in the NY
Daily news including a
photograph.

http://www.nydailynews.com/02-26-2004/news/gossip/story/168041p-146864c.html

ORIGINAL ARTICLE
******************

Activist: ‘CSI’ is high on lie

Dana Beal CBS has provoked the wrath of a group of
former junkies and their
supporters who are spitting mad about tonight’s
episode of “CSI: Crime Scene
Investigation.”

Ex-cocaine and amphetamine user Dana Beal, who heads
Cures Not Wars – which
promotes the legalization of a substance called
Ibogaine as a cure for drug
addiction – told Lowdown that his 100-member group
plans to stage a lunchtime
protest today in front of Black Rock, the CBS
corporate headquarters in midtown.

A CBS spokesman declined to comment yesterday.

The problem, Beal said, is that the “CSI” episode,
titled “Getting Off,” is
rife with misinformation about Ibogaine, which is
widely used around the world
but illegal in the United States. “It has someone
driving on Ibogaine, which
you can’t do!” Beal complained, noting that the drug
induces a trancelike state.

“We would describe it as an addiction interrupter,”
said Beal, whose group
has been campaigning for Food and Drug
Administration approval. “When you are in
the throes of it you are in ‘sleep paralysis’ – you
are awake but your body
is asleep. … When the Ibogaine effect wears off,
you don’t go back into
withdrawal. Once you come down from it, you are
normal.”

Even worse, Beal said, tonight’s show depicts a
cultlike underground program
apparently based on Cures Not Wars. “The episode has
someone selling Ibogaine.
But it’s absolutely forbidden. We could get
investigated by the DEA. We don’t
need that headache right now!”

Personally, I haven’t heard the word Ibogaine since
1972, when Rolling Stone
correspondent Hunter S. Thompson famously accused
Democratic presidential
candidate Edmund Muskie of abusing the drug – an
alkaloid powder derived from the
root bark of an exotic African shrub.

Thompson, maybe under the influence of something
himself, wrote that the
“Ibogaine Effect” was a “serious factor” in Muskie’s
losing campaign. He claimed
that Muskie was “far gone in a bad Ibogaine frenzy.”

So far in the 2004 campaign, the only evidence of an
“Ibogaine effect” came
during the Wisconsin primary race, when a Cures Not
Wars activist in Madison
handed a brochure to Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of
Democratic front-runner John
Kerry.

“She came back and got two more copies, and she said
she was giving one to
John,” Beal said. Calls and E-mails to the Kerry
campaign were not answered.

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:51:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Patrick, this one I kept. Thanks 🙂

Not bad advice. I have a whole collection from here of
you. You’ve changed a lot in the years I’ve read this,
I still have the collection with you, Randy, Dave I
think 3 or 4 more people which were the I hate the 12
steps collection 😉 There’s a lot of those 😉 😉
😉

Congratulations, you’ve gotten over it! It’s only
taken 3 years? 4? 😉

In case you didn’t notice I’m kidding 😉 Thank you,
you’ve been one of the main things that’s kept me
going this far! When I was still on methadone I
started reading your writing and came here. Nobody who
ever read anything you wrote believed you would ever
stay clean when I showed it to counselers when I was
first talking about doing ibogaine.

Keep being you! 😉

Love to everyone here.

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 06:45:09PM -0800],
[deartheo@ziplip.com] wrote:

| but I am happy your doing well and
| am curious about how your after care went (besides
12 step programs,
| your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t
already know regarding
| 12 step pushers).

I did ibogaine twice — to get unsprung —
back-to-back, at St. Kitts.
Since that point in time I’ve dosed on various
occasions for different
reasons.  After ibogaine — Take I — I lasted for
roughly 35 minutes left
to my own devices.  As soon as the plane landed in
San Juan, ’bout 35
minutes is the length of time it took me to find
dope, cop, and restart my
relationship with it.

I was dumped into “treatment,” where I lasted for a
little over 2 weeks
before getting thrown out.  Ostensibly for “using,”
but the actual reasons
are much closer to my attitude about it when
confronted with this fact.  I
didn’t nail myself to a cross and explain how highly
super-sorry I am.
Because … I wasn’t.

My personal response to traditional “drug
treatment,” post-ibogaine was
probably WORSE than the 50 times I’d been dumped
into it pre-ibogaine.
Because, I wasn’t dopesick; I had a much lower level
of desperation, and
being dosed with a very mild entheogen beforehand,
did not in any way
change my resonance-check.  This … is … a buncha
bullshit.  And,
nothing much has changed, except I have even greater
awareness that none
of this is doing a fucking thing for me.

I blew out, basically stayed high for about 6 weeks
while bouncing in and
out of “treatment” programs; redosed with ibogaine,
and … that was
Halloween, 1999.  I’ve been clean this entire
millennium, who woulda
thunk.

What I did after ibogaine II, was go to an ashram
just outside of Bangkok.
Not to visit and hang out, but actually to live
there.  I stayed for a
little over 3 months, and while I was there, I did a
lot of LSD.

I had set, setting, and intent.  While most of the
people where I was at
had no idea exactly why I left the planet — they
were highly supportive
and kind to me.  “Well, basically, what you’re doing
is wonderful.  And,
this is why we’re all sitting here in an ashram in
the middle of nowhere.
Just, keep going!”

Had I taken these same actions within the United
States, the outcome would
have been considerably different.  Instead of
wrapping up a lifetime of
drug depednence, and being given the opportunity to
reset, reintegrate,
and resurrect … it would have taken no more than
48 hours for some
helpful person to have me Baker-acted.  I would have
synched back down to
planet Earth, tranked down, in a padded room
somewhere, in 4-point
restraints.

Instead of completing the process of reintegration
— which took a LOT of
processor time on the Cosmic CPU — it would have
amounted to Yet Another
manifestation of my perpetual drug problems kicking
up their shit.  The
End.  Here’s a stack of scripts, here’s your new
home at a lockdown
in-patient facility, and if you behave, we’ll take
the straitjacket off
and let you go smoke cigarettes on the playground.

While the odds that following this exact roadmap
will work for anybody
else, are relatively low.  The overall truth
remains.  If what you’re
doing is not working; has never worked; and you
really do want to step out
of drug dependence … perhaps you need to figure
out something else to
do.

To cop a cliche from those 12-step things, “A good
definition of insanity,
is doing the same thing, over and over again, and
expecting different
results.”

Ya know what … that happens to be true.  I
*really* wanted to cut loose
heroin.  I’d been in therapy since, basically, birth
(well no, since Jr.
High School); I have never felt any resonance with a
single fucking thing
anybody had to say to me while I was at the
receiving end of, “drug
treatment.”  So, then, perhaps … I need to do
something else.  Because
the truth is … my inability to get in tune with
the dogma of some cult;
has exactly NOTHING to do with cutting loose junk.

What I actually learned from a lifetime of
“treatment” and what I found
while accessing much greater spaces/places/truths
while dosing with
entheogens … was EXACTLY THE SAME: as long as you
keep digging in shit,
you’re gonna be covered in it.  Find something else
to do.

What worked for me was connecting myself to the God
of my understanding,
and HOLDING ON TO THAT CONNECTION.

So, anywaze, that’s me … I don’t know you, what
you’ve written here:

| I’ll work you into my 9th step : )

Indicates that you’re working the steps.

Okay, so … when you do this and go to meetings; do
you — at least SOME
OF THE TIME — come away filled with some greater
level of strength, hope,
and/or understanding …?

If yes, well, that fucking rocks.  Keep doing it.

If no, well … have you tried to find a group that
works for you and
people who are willing to accept your beliefs.  The
12-steps dig the
sponsor concept; do you have one?  If you don’t,
well … is there ANYBODY
in the meetings you go to, that has anything you
want?  If yes, then
FUCKING TALK TO THEM.

I don’t work the steps, per se, although much of
what I do on a daily
basis, lights up and synchs with prolly at least
half of the concepts the
12-steps are based upon — but, if they’re not
working for you, have you
tried Rational Recovery (the not-for-profit version
I b’lieve is called
SMART)?  Randy would know much more about the
specifics of this paradigm
than I do, ‘cuz he actually used it post-ibogaine.

The only thing I would add to whatever paradigm
you’re using — you can
name it anything you want, you can call it Step 13,
Step 1,
WhateverTheFuck, amounts to: JUST KEEP GETTING BACK
UP … because
eventually you WILL stand.  All you *must* do, is
believe that it is
possible.

Success — at anything — just amounts to
persistence, “Sorry, I’m very
hard-headed and I’m not listening to you explain my
limitations to me.
I’m, just, gonna keep going.  Because I’m too stupid
to give up.”

Other than all of that, much of what people have to
say about “addiction,”
is — at best — pseudoscience.  “Once an addict,
always an addict,” is
also a crock of shit.  The brain reorganizes itself,
it’s called
neuroplasticity.  An extremely cool starting-point,
is this thing here:

The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the
Power of Mental Force.
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D

This is a very easy to read book, and gives you a
lot of references to
read sideways, if you want to gain some greater
level of understanding.

Anywaze, this is getting long, and I could write
another thousand
paragraphs on this topic; wait, no, nevermind, I
already have.

| You are probably correct, I appoligize to all
involved…it’s very
| frustrating to come to this list for some kind of
support in the sense
| that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga
is mentioned, but
| their apperars to be very little of that and what
I wrote was out of
| that frustation and I’m definately no where close
to be done yet in
| regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse
though, I should have
| bit my tounge…

This list is whatever people choose to turn it into.
I’m not the
babysitter.  Everyone is free to say anything they
like … however, that
also applies to me.  When random, pseudoanonymous
idiots, land here and
start dumping hate.  I’m really not required to say,
“That’s very special,
thank you.”

There actually IS another ibogaine list here;
sacrament.  It was created
for people who had done ibogaine and were trying to
maintain.

But … nobody ever posts to it.  I think maybe 75
people signed up, said
a few things, and went back to sleep.

*THIS* list has — as of last week — passed just
over 5,000 people.  The
same 75-100 have written 95% of the messages.  The
rest … I dunno why
they’re here.  But this isn’t very unusual.  We’ve
been running online
conferences since long before www. and port 80
existed; before @ signs
existed; and … this is pretty much the dynamic …
it doesn’t seem to
make a difference whether the subject is music,
hacking, drugs, or
“recovery.”

I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t write much
to the list right now;
but there are always at least a handful of
individuals here who have been
there, done that, maintained in a variety of ways;
and consistently
provide advice that contains at least SOME useful
elements.

Laters,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price-list— warning virus
Date: February 28, 2004 at 5:23:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie–

You’re last email had a virus, my anti-virus intercepted it…. you should
download an antivirus and scan/clean your computer before it’s too late…

The following link will take you to Cnet’s download page for AVG 6- it’s
their free edition and it’s only a 5 meg download— it should do the job,

http://download.com.com/3000-2239-10172843.html?tag=lst-0-25

Adam

—– Original Message —–
From: <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Price-list

—————————————————————————-
—-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, Iboga yesterday Ibogaine today what is it going to …
Date: February 27, 2004 at 6:29:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mexico and Dr. P , saound great. I tried to get credentials on Dr. P and could not get a straight answer from thier organization or on the web. I just want to know what kind of Doc he is so if anything happens, they can handle it. Is this such a big request or just the neurotic compulsions of my OCD/ amxiety disorder / bipolor crap and general mistrust of everything and every one?

Can anyone send me info on this please?
Danka

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Price-list
Date: February 27, 2004 at 5:37:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Narcotics Farm Animal
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:43:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“While down in the dim grey wards and dayrooms
where the ‘do-wrongs’
Hock and spit and shiver and vomit

He asks me what the American flag means to me
And I tell him “Soak in heroin, doc, and I’ll suck it”
Says: “I got the wrong ATT I TUDE”
I should see the chaplain and get straight with jesus.”

I didn’t know this but Ft. Worth had a narcotics farm like Lexington.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:32:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Allison and everyone who sent warmth, and to those who merely thought
it too. Much obliged and helpful for sure.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

Preston, You sound so down.  Can send warmth in a message but wish could do
more.  Know how you feel.  Hard to know what to say but hang in there.
Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 27 February 2004 5:04:22 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] stuff

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all- even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] CSI
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:21:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not sure how many of you watched the CSI ibogaine program but, the
actual information provided on ibogaine and noribogaine did not appear negative to
me.  That they mentioned nor was quite amazing but, other than that the
adventure itself was pretty boring compared to the usual fare of the program.  Dana
got some great publicity out of the show…a wonderful picture of himself in
the NY daily news.  It probably benefited CSI as well.  Now to see if any
positive play comes out of it.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:19:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You also can try wild lettuce.

as a side note for people interested in wild lettuce, get the resin,
rather than the whole plant.

wild lettuce is an effective analgesic/sedative, but it is quite low
potency. if using the raw plant, you have to smoke an AWFUL lot of it for
any effect. the resin is still fairly low potency, but you don’t need
nearly as much of it…. which is a lot easier on the lungs.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:14:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 5:29:29 PM, think@francomm.com writes:

Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Ibogaine: Proceedings of the First International Conference

A wonderful book.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:04:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You also can try wild lettuce.
Here is some info.
Alternative painkiller, ultimate relaxation. Opium-like. Wild Lettuce is
also known as Lettuce opium. This is because the strong narcotic and
hypnotic effects are similar, but milder psycho-active effects than opium
from Papaver somniferum. The plant is used centuries because of its sedating
and anaesthetic properties. In the 19th century, doctors and pharmacists
regularly used lactucarium, a plant extract, when normal opium wasn’t
available. Lactucarium is a safe opium substitute, because it is not
addictive and even large amounts of lactucarium(lWild Lettuce extract) never
lead to overdosage. In the 70’s, Lacuca virosa(wild Lettuce) was very
popular in America. There it was sold under multiple names like Lettuce
opium, l’opium and lettucene. A few Wild Lettuce Joints will bring you in a
very relaxed and euphoric mood. It will also be very easy to fall asleep.
The active ingredient of Wild Lettuce is Lactucine.
3 joints

This is one of the plants available in my treatment.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: vrijdag 27 februari 2004 20:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you do
so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but here’s
a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

Kratom is quite safe. There is some risk of dependence with regular, heavy
usage; but that’s really the only health concern. I would think in very
high doses, there might be a risk of respiratory depression; but you’d
probably throw up before you could drink that much of it.

The primary active chemical in it is mitragynine, an opioid agonist,
roughly comparable in strength to codeine. Though mitragynine is
structurally related to the tryptamine psychedelics, it doesn’t have any
psychedelic effects; rather, it’s effects are very similar to codeine or
other low to mid potency opiates.. analgesia, euphoria, cough supression,
and sometimes nausea.

I use Daniel Siebert’s recipe for making the tea, which works quite well.
For 40 g of crushed leaf, add 1 L of water. Boil gently for 15 minutes.
Strain the leaves, making sure to squeeze all the liquid out, and save the
liquid in another pot.

Put the leaves back in the original pot, and another litre of water, and
boil again for 15 minutes. Strain the leaves again, adding this to the pot
from the previous boiling. At this point, you can throw out the leaves, as
all the goodness will be in the water. Then boil the water until only
about 100 ml of it is left.

To be honest, I probably don’t usually boil it all the way down to 100 ml,
cause I’m impatient…eheh. But the more liquid you boil off, the more
potent it’ll be (i.e., the less volume of liquid you’ll have to drink). I
usually add a good deal of sugar as well, as it’s pretty bitter.

I would highly recommend this for anyone suffering from withdrawal
symptoms (if you can’t get ahold of ibogaine, of course..eheh).

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:01:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon and the others who supplied info about this plant. I’d never ever
heard of it before, so it is something I shall keep in mind for future
reference.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you
do
so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but
here’s
a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

Kratom is quite safe. There is some risk of dependence with regular, heavy
usage; but that’s really the only health concern. I would think in very
high doses, there might be a risk of respiratory depression; but you’d
probably throw up before you could drink that much of it.

The primary active chemical in it is mitragynine, an opioid agonist,
roughly comparable in strength to codeine. Though mitragynine is
structurally related to the tryptamine psychedelics, it doesn’t have any
psychedelic effects; rather, it’s effects are very similar to codeine or
other low to mid potency opiates.. analgesia, euphoria, cough supression,
and sometimes nausea.

I use Daniel Siebert’s recipe for making the tea, which works quite well.
For 40 g of crushed leaf, add 1 L of water. Boil gently for 15 minutes.
Strain the leaves, making sure to squeeze all the liquid out, and save the
liquid in another pot.

Put the leaves back in the original pot, and another litre of water, and
boil again for 15 minutes. Strain the leaves again, adding this to the pot
from the previous boiling. At this point, you can throw out the leaves, as
all the goodness will be in the water. Then boil the water until only
about 100 ml of it is left.

To be honest, I probably don’t usually boil it all the way down to 100 ml,
cause I’m impatient…eheh. But the more liquid you boil off, the more
potent it’ll be (i.e., the less volume of liquid you’ll have to drink). I
usually add a good deal of sugar as well, as it’s pretty bitter.

I would highly recommend this for anyone suffering from withdrawal
symptoms (if you can’t get ahold of ibogaine, of course..eheh).

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:46:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you do
so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but here’s
a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

Kratom is quite safe. There is some risk of dependence with regular, heavy
usage; but that’s really the only health concern. I would think in very
high doses, there might be a risk of respiratory depression; but you’d
probably throw up before you could drink that much of it.

The primary active chemical in it is mitragynine, an opioid agonist,
roughly comparable in strength to codeine. Though mitragynine is
structurally related to the tryptamine psychedelics, it doesn’t have any
psychedelic effects; rather, it’s effects are very similar to codeine or
other low to mid potency opiates.. analgesia, euphoria, cough supression,
and sometimes nausea.

I use Daniel Siebert’s recipe for making the tea, which works quite well.
For 40 g of crushed leaf, add 1 L of water. Boil gently for 15 minutes.
Strain the leaves, making sure to squeeze all the liquid out, and save the
liquid in another pot.

Put the leaves back in the original pot, and another litre of water, and
boil again for 15 minutes. Strain the leaves again, adding this to the pot
from the previous boiling. At this point, you can throw out the leaves, as
all the goodness will be in the water. Then boil the water until only
about 100 ml of it is left.

To be honest, I probably don’t usually boil it all the way down to 100 ml,
cause I’m impatient…eheh. But the more liquid you boil off, the more
potent it’ll be (i.e., the less volume of liquid you’ll have to drink). I
usually add a good deal of sugar as well, as it’s pretty bitter.

I would highly recommend this for anyone suffering from withdrawal
symptoms (if you can’t get ahold of ibogaine, of course..eheh).

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:41:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of the most authoritative books on the subject currently available is

Ibogaine: Proceedings from the 1st International Conference by Kenneth R.
Alper and Stanley D. Glick
published by Academic Press.

It is heavy on the academic side but if you can wrap your head around the
pharmacology and technical jargon (or find a tutor like I’m trying to do),
it’s an excellent resource.
—————————————————————————-
———————————-

**I’m gonna trot right over to the local public library and go the ILL
(Interlibrary loan) route to see if I can
borrow a copy to look at (prior to plunking down $85.00).  I think I can
decide quickly if its way over my
head.  I do have some backgound, Bachelor’s in Psychology, heavy on biology
electives.  Instead  of
Master’s in Psych, became a nurse practitioner.

Thank you so much.

ps:  Stanley Glick, if he has his research physically located at Albany Med,
is only a 30 minute drive from
here.  I’ll bet the Library there has a copy of this book.

ann
think@francomm.com

—————————————————————————-
———————————————-

—– Original Message —–
From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:28:46 -0500
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

This is a learning curve to end all learning curves!!  My brain cells
are
being filled to the max.    I’m reading everything here plus sending for
all
the books I can find on the subject.  I received, “The Ibogaine Story”
in the snailmail yesterday.  The three of us are fighting over it 😎
I have another book – something about breaking open the brain
on order.  Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Thanks everybody,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and
read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions
lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just
US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CGEOBET@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:21:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My mailbox is full, so please stop all e-mails. Thanks!!

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:09:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of the most authoritative books on the subject currently available is

Ibogaine: Proceedings from the 1st International Conference by Kenneth R. Alper and Stanley D. Glick
published by Academic Press.

It is heavy on the academic side but if you can wrap your head around the pharmacology and technical jargon (or find a tutor like I’m trying to do), it’s an excellent resource.

—– Original Message —–
From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:28:46 -0500
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

This is a learning curve to end all learning curves!!  My brain cells are
being filled to the max.    I’m reading everything here plus sending for all
the books I can find on the subject.  I received, “The Ibogaine Story”
in the snailmail yesterday.  The three of us are fighting over it 😎
I have another book – something about breaking open the brain
on order.  Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Thanks everybody,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions
lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 1:58:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you do so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but here’s a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:06:58 -0500 (EST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all-
even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.

Hey man,

If you’re still out of opiates, you might wanna see if you can get a hold
of some kratom. It’s a plant from Thailand.. made into a tea, it has an
effect similar to opium.

It’s legal, and relatively cheap to buy off the net…

good luck

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “ChrisisMach” <fisch@ist.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME
Date: February 27, 2004 at 1:35:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “dave” <dmurphy@airmail.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
i am very intrested and very sorry to have to cancel my subscription
but my mailbox is already too full to handle the amount of mails from
ibogaine@mindvox

thanx Crispy

dave <dmurphy@airmail.net> schrieb:

PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME OR MY EMAIL

THANKS VERY MUCH

——————————————————————–

“Are you still wasting your time with spam?…
There is a solution!”

Protected by GIANT Company’s Spam Inspector
The most powerful anti-spam software available.
http://www.giantcompany.com


CrispyFisch

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 1:26:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Sara…

Our protocol has been undergoing a lot of revision lately, that’s true. Our process is at this time focused on gathering the data that is needed in order to publish our results in the future. We don’t necessarily need to have the PHd credentials ourselves but our research team, which is different from the treatment team will be guided by an IRB (Institutional Review Board) -those are the one’s with the credentials and their job is to oversee the quality of our data collection and help us in creating our policies.

You will see more details about this in the future when we are ready to share it. We’re still learning much at this time…

I will not pretend to know much or enough about the deaths that have occured except for what I have seen published, and even that is always taken with a grain of salt as each article is often flavoured by the opinion of the journalist. I have not, as far as I remember, attempted to comment on any of it…

I think the “they” in question is NIDA and their comment was:

‘researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping requirement standards that pertain to Schedule I substances’

In my last email, I may have bitten off more than I can chew by opening up this dialogue. I get excited about the potentials because I think much lies in effectively communicating the potentials uses of Ibo to the world with tact, grace and skill.

All I can say is that we’re working on it, we’ll all see what happens in actuality…

cheers,

s.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:40:10 +0100
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

Sandra, I wish you a lot of luck and support in the process.

Sandra, you need to have
A PHD , from a recognized university , which isn’t a third world University
of course.
Before that, any of your data isn’t going to be acknowledged.
For example : a person who has been practicing dental surgery for 20 years
in Afghanistan will NOT get a license to do the same in any western oriented
country. Unless he will prove his credibility. that means that He will need
to pay money and study again to have the license.

There is an official path that you’ll need to follow before.
Anything that you write, having an official university degree in that field,
health care provider or MD PHD, anything  like it, will give you the right
to be acknowledged.

But there are other ways in this system which isn’t Global yet.
In India you can get a PHD  just buy one.
Then you can do your research in India they are open minded to this
treatment they have more the 7million people addicted to Heroin.
If you do the same thing there you can help so many more people
having to 1500$ or 2800$ per person and not getting  anywhere officially
is kind of strange, for that much money ,you can save maybe 20 heroin
addicts in India, that will put you in the light “prince of pot became
mother Teresa”
kind of thing.

you must prove the credibility  of your treatment.
and there is a way.
To start with , ITH gives the impression from the publication and from this
list . that the way the treatment is conducted is changing every half a
year.
Beside if it was true that ITH learn so much about the six Ibogaine Deaths
Z”L.
How come we get to read all those questions about the U.K Death?
I’m really curious to know the truth.
Also I would like to know who are “THEY” and how a document that
They require looks like.

The thing is about India , you can collect Data non stop and cheap
Instead of 14 people treatment , big publication.
140 people treatment huge publication.

Best of luck.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: sandra . [mailto:windforme@graffiti.net]
Verzonden: vrijdag 27 februari 2004 10:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

That’s what were in the process of trying to do at ITH, provide the
documentation that they require. I have the docs for this particular case
and more on the way…

another one of my fave quotes:

‘it’s not a problem, just a detail.’

Keep movin’ towards solution oriented strategies,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:48:48 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical
records
(methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine,
would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just
US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:28:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a learning curve to end all learning curves!!  My brain cells are
being filled to the max.    I’m reading everything here plus sending for all
the books I can find on the subject.  I received, “The Ibogaine Story”
in the snailmail yesterday.  The three of us are fighting over it 😎
I have another book – something about breaking open the brain
on order.  Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Thanks everybody,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions
lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:21:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical
records
(methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine,
would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Well, anything other than a controlled experiment is technically anecdotal
evidence…

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] old story . Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:13:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my four years of initiating people with Iboga  I found out that many of
the ex- Ritalin users (as kids)
Like to use cocaine as adults .  Does anyone think there is a connection ? <

Hey,
Isn’t Ritalin something like cocaine in how it work on the brain? And,
aren’t kids who take Ritalin unable to then go into military service when
they get older as they’ve been taking mind altering substances? I could
swear I’ve read that somewhere too. I think that indeed there probably is a
connection Sara, in that Ritalin is a speed and so too is cocaine.  Get a
person used to taking such substances, the chances they will seek out like
substances as adults makes sense.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 4:23 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] old story . Does anyone think there is a connection ?

My daughter  is dyslectic , she is 9 years old she needs a special reading
lessons  individually. An
American  initiate of mine , who has PHD , in health care providing , said
that in the U.S she will be given Ritalin. When she was 7 years old, she was
frustrated that other kids could read but she couldn’t .
Now, with a little more attention she’s very happy to be able to read. You
can’t medicate frustrations,
And frustrations can grow both ways  it can be come a wake up call  activate
your creative side or gets you depressed.
When starting to medicate the chance that the frustration will get you
creative is 0.
That is what the Pharmaceuticals rather have. You become dependant on all
kind of medication
And that’s normal , tolerated .as long as the kids sit down and shut up then
it is fine.
But since my daughter doesn’t get any medication she found her own way of
exploration, Art.
She can be painting , drawing and giving remarks to the Iboga initiates
,which are very inspiring.
Her paintings are very colourful and joyful to look at.  her confidence is
back.
When you are confident with your abilities to perform , express your inner
world  you would find healing.(I think).
for some Ritaling is the answer but wouldn’t you look for alternatives if
you got the choice ?
In my four years of initiating people with Iboga  I found out that many of
the ex- Ritalin users (as kids)
Like to use cocaine as adults .  Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Pharmaceutical blackmail
By Vin Suprynowicz
web posted August 21, 2000
About that “zero drug tolerance” policy in our schools: Does it really mean
what it says? Or would it come closer to the truth for school administrators
to admit what they really oppose are pushers offering competing
consciousness-altering substances?
Do our public schools today constitute a kind of official, tax-supported
dope monopoly which will even threaten to take children away from parents
should they refuse to go along with the mind-numbing nostrums which our
schoolmasters themselves now press on nearly a quarter of our young boys,
the better to keep those valuable but restless butts planted in their seats?
The Albany Times Union, in a May 7 copyrighted story, tells what happened to
parents Michael and Jill Carroll of Albany, N.Y., when they tried to take
their son, 7-year-old Kyle, off the Ritalin.
Kyle Carroll was first prescribed Ritalin last year, after he fell behind at
school. Teachers drew up an Individualized Education Plan, a standard course
of action for children with “special needs.” But last fall, when Kyle
started second grade, the Ritalin didn’t seem to be doing much good.
Furthermore, the Carrolls grew concerned that Kyle was only sleeping about
five hours a night and eating just one meal a day — lunch. So they told
school officials they wanted to take Kyle off the Ritalin for two weeks to
see if that helped.
That’s when they got a call, and then a visit, from a Child Protective
Services worker, based on a complaint from Kyle’s school guidance counselor.
The charge? “Child abuse,” in the form of “medical neglect.” In plain
English? Expressing doubts about keeping their child on dope.
As a result, the Times Union reports the Carrolls are now on a statewide
list of alleged child abusers, and find themselves “thrust into an Orwellian
family court battle to clear their name and ensure their child isn’t removed
from their home.”
The child remains on the medication, “in part because they fear child
welfare workers will take him away if they don’t,” the Albany daily reports.
Furthermore, the Albany paper found the Carrolls’ case is far from unique,
reporting: “Public schools are increasingly accusing parents of child abuse
and neglect if they balk at giving their children medication such as
Ritalin, a stimulant being prescribed to more and more students.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics reports as many as 3.8 million
schoolchildren, mostly boys, have now been diagnosed with the newly-coined
“ADHD” — attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder — a psychiatric
“disease” with symptoms to which most of our grandparents would have
responded by simply smiling: “Boys will be boys.” Or perhaps by asking,
“Could it be that he finds your school boring? Does it really make sense to
spend three or four years teaching reading, a skill easily mastered in six
weeks if you’d just use phonics?”
At least a million children now take Ritalin for this “disorder.” In two
school districts near Virginia Beach, Va., for instance, a 1999 study by
psychologist Gretchen LeFever found fully 20 percent of white boys in the
fifth grade in the 1995-96 school year were receiving prescription drugs for
ADHD. And even the AAP acknowledged in a recent study that many cases are
misdiagnosed.
“This thing is so scary,” says Patricia Weathers, of Millbrook, a suburb of
Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Officials at the Millbrook school district called police
and child protective services when she took her 9-year-old son, Michael
Mozer, off medications earlier this year.
Weathers reported her child’s prescribed drug cocktail — including Ritalin,
the anti-depressant Paxil, and Dexedrine (another stimulant, like Ritalin)
caused her boy — now attending a private school — to hallucinate.
“Absent evidence that the lives of children are at stake when they’re not on
Ritalin,” USA Today editorialized this week, “no arm of the state should be
ramming the drug treatment down parents’ — and children’s — throats.”
Amen to that. The underlying problem here is the notion that children belong
first to the state — that they’re best “socialized” in state-run
institutions, and that biological parents are allowed to retain custody only
at the discretion of school and “child welfare” officials, who after all
have “professional diplomas,” and thus “know best.”
No free country can long operate under such a presumption, with its
inevitable corrosive effect on the family. And this — at least as much as
the corresponding academic failures of the public schools — is what drives
the large and growing movement for separation of school and state. (See:
www.sepschool.org)
Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. His book, “Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom
Movement, 1993-1998,” is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web
site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html.
Other stories by this author: (open in a new window)
Could they really have done it on purpose? (August 7, 2000)
Another silly prohibition (June 1999)
Give these women guns (October 25, 1999)
I watched the Bill of Rights dying last week (October 4, 1999)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:06:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all-
even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.

Hey man,

If you’re still out of opiates, you might wanna see if you can get a hold
of some kratom. It’s a plant from Thailand.. made into a tea, it has an
effect similar to opium.

It’s legal, and relatively cheap to buy off the net…

good luck

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:02:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Paul,

I’d say it depends on your objective in taking the iboga…. if it’s
addiction related then hcl is probably the way to go, that seems to be the
consensus on this list….

But just to clear things up, there are 4 main options out there (that I’m
aware of)..

from the weakest up-
1. root (up to half a kilo or equivalent in shavings and brew)
2. rootbark (much more potent, 20 – 40 gms, alkaloid content varies though)
(bwitis discard the bark, consider it ‘unclean’)
3. Indra (18 year old batch, 5 to 7 grms seems to be a proper dose)
4. HCl ( 5-15mg/kilo bodyweight, and 1 gram will set you back some $300 chez
Marko)

Having done hcl and indra on a few occasions and the root itself in africa,
there’s no comparison, fresh root has alot more rocket-fuel going for it…
It also has ‘mass’; the stuff goes active in the stomache, one actually can
feel this unnatural, bubbling, heat in the belly, there are fumes that rise
up which makes breathing extremely unpleasant.. ..another big advantage is
that since with the root you get to eat and drink plenty, there’s no problem
with the vomitting… it’s not dry-heaves nor as taxing as with hcl/indra.
Of course one can counter/alleviate the vomitting and particularly the
dry-heaves and nausea with various medicinal compounds but I really believe
that the vomitting is an integral part of the cleansing.

So all in all, I feel that eating the root was the most natural and the
intended form… and you can’t help but feel that the taste was *designed*
to throw you on your knees and exorcising your ego (perhaps allowing you to
see things you couldn’t otherwise perceive)…

I don’t like Indra, I mean, I like the idea of it, I just don’t like an 18
year old batch- on the 3 occassions that I tried it, one was ok, the other
two I found the stuff really volatile…

Adam

—– Original Message —–
From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Hey Howard,

You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
(And I read the french and english versions)

I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page

http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique

or here in English

http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp

the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
and the ‘more info’ is a 404…

Personally I find this site dubious.

Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?

Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
info…

Adam

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
anything
but the opening page.  Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:42:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:03:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul,

“Is the root bark the best form to get it in?”

It depends. For someone trying to self-treat an addiction or a first (self) experience, not the best IMO. It is too variable in strength, from worthless to quality material, so make sure you are getting quality root bark not an iboga bush tossed in a chipper. Root bark would be more difficult for someone inexperienced to use, it is bulkier (try an oz of bark). A standardized extract of a known potency (which is all over the place, but seems to work) is Indra, you can also get HCL.  Extracts, bark vs Ibogaine HCL is a somewhat different experience. Indra (which should be similar to root bark) is a softer trip – at least in a given anti-addictive amount, somewhat more sickening – that is what I hear about bark, but worse. You could make an extract, it is really horrid stuff to try to consume, especially once the effects start setting in (think drinking a bucket of bitter vomit on a tossing ship in the worst storm imaginable, now multiply) HCL is a rougher trip (strapped to a rocket going inward), more “scary” (on the way up), breaks through better, Indra and I assume root bark (never did any) is more “real”, richer, fuller where HCL is a bit more cartoon-like in some visions (for lack of a better description). Any ibogaine used properly will work for visions, are VERY long, are VERY sickening, has an immense body load, takes a long time to recover (ah, and then… the glow begins) and is likely to be the most amazing and lucid experience of your life (done properly), do it wrong and you will scare the shit out of yourself, or worse. The after effects are better with HCL than Indra, more of a “glow”, better mood, recouperation is quicker,. HCL is better for small, quick doses (ie 2mg/kg), that are basically over in several hours, no “trip” but lots of nice effects that last for days – not as good with Indra -and I assume other full spectrum iboga products. Given the choice between the two verions (one being too soft, the other too hard) I would mix the 2, given the choice if I could only get one kind it would be ibogaine HCL. I personally had a harder time trying to use Indra to fight addiction unless I used a very high dose.. I hear of people that love good quality root bark, that the experience is richer, perhaps more than Indra which is 18 years old.

Get other opinions, the experience on ibogaine depends a lot on who you are and where you are at, the reasons you are taking it, set, setting etc and what you do after is more important than the type of ibogaine you use.  Once you are tripping on ibogaine (at altitude), you are pretty much tripping on ibogaine/iboga, there isn’t a lot of difference in the basic trip and side effects, one is bit better at this or that than the other.

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

Brett

Paul MacLennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

> Hey Howard,
>
> You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
> (And I read the french and english versions)
>
> I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique
>
> or here in English
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp
>
> the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
> and the ‘more info’ is a 404…
>
> Personally I find this site dubious.
>
> Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?
>
> Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
> with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
> is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
> info…
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
> > > anything
> > > but the opening page. Is anyone doing any better?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Howard
> > >
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:40:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandra, I wish you a lot of luck and support in the process.

Sandra, you need to have
A PHD , from a recognized university , which isn’t a third world University
of course.
Before that, any of your data isn’t going to be acknowledged.
For example : a person who has been practicing dental surgery for 20 years
in Afghanistan will NOT get a license to do the same in any western oriented
country. Unless he will prove his credibility. that means that He will need
to pay money and study again to have the license.

There is an official path that you’ll need to follow before.
Anything that you write, having an official university degree in that field,
health care provider or MD PHD, anything  like it, will give you the right
to be acknowledged.

But there are other ways in this system which isn’t Global yet.
In India you can get a PHD  just buy one.
Then you can do your research in India they are open minded to this
treatment they have more the 7million people addicted to Heroin.
If you do the same thing there you can help so many more people
having to 1500$ or 2800$ per person and not getting  anywhere officially
is kind of strange, for that much money ,you can save maybe 20 heroin
addicts in India, that will put you in the light “prince of pot became
mother Teresa”
kind of thing.

you must prove the credibility  of your treatment.
and there is a way.
To start with , ITH gives the impression from the publication and from this
list . that the way the treatment is conducted is changing every half a
year.
Beside if it was true that ITH learn so much about the six Ibogaine Deaths
Z”L.
How come we get to read all those questions about the U.K Death?
I’m really curious to know the truth.
Also I would like to know who are “THEY” and how a document that
They require looks like.

The thing is about India , you can collect Data non stop and cheap
Instead of 14 people treatment , big publication.
140 people treatment huge publication.

Best of luck.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: sandra . [mailto:windforme@graffiti.net]
Verzonden: vrijdag 27 februari 2004 10:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

That’s what were in the process of trying to do at ITH, provide the
documentation that they require. I have the docs for this particular case
and more on the way…

another one of my fave quotes:

‘it’s not a problem, just a detail.’

Keep movin’ towards solution oriented strategies,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:48:48 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical
records
(methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine,
would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just
US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:03:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, You sound so down.  Can send warmth in a message but wish could do more.  Know how you feel.  Hard to know what to say but hang in there.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 27 February 2004 5:04:22 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] stuff

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all- even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

.

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 5:43:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Hey Howard,

You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
(And I read the french and english versions)

I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page

http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique

or here in English

http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp

the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
and the ‘more info’ is a 404…

Personally I find this site dubious.

Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?

Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
info…

Adam

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
anything
but the opening page.  Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 4:27:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s what were in the process of trying to do at ITH, provide the documentation that they require. I have the docs for this particular case and more on the way…

another one of my fave quotes:

‘it’s not a problem, just a detail.’

Keep movin’ towards solution oriented strategies,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:48:48 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical records
(methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine,
would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] old story . Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 4:23:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My daughter  is dyslectic , she is 9 years old she needs a special reading lessons  individually. An
American  initiate of mine , who has PHD , in health care providing , said that in the U.S she will be given Ritalin. When she was 7 years old, she was frustrated that other kids could read but she couldn’t .
Now, with a little more attention she’s very happy to be able to read. You can’t medicate frustrations,
And frustrations can grow both ways  it can be come a wake up call  activate your creative side or gets you depressed.
When starting to medicate the chance that the frustration will get you creative is 0.
That is what the Pharmaceuticals rather have. You become dependant on all kind of medication
And that’s normal , tolerated .as long as the kids sit down and shut up then it is fine.
But since my daughter doesn’t get any medication she found her own way of exploration, Art.
She can be painting , drawing and giving remarks to the Iboga initiates ,which are very inspiring.
Her paintings are very colourful and joyful to look at.  her confidence is back.
When you are confident with your abilities to perform , express your inner world  you would find healing.(I think).
for some Ritaling is the answer but wouldn’t you look for alternatives if you got the choice ?
In my four years of initiating people with Iboga  I found out that many of  the ex- Ritalin users (as kids)
Like to use cocaine as adults .  Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Pharmaceutical blackmail
By Vin Suprynowicz
web posted August 21, 2000
About that “zero drug tolerance” policy in our schools: Does it really mean what it says? Or would it come closer to the truth for school administrators to admit what they really oppose are pushers offering competing consciousness-altering substances?
Do our public schools today constitute a kind of official, tax-supported dope monopoly which will even threaten to take children away from parents should they refuse to go along with the mind-numbing nostrums which our schoolmasters themselves now press on nearly a quarter of our young boys, the better to keep those valuable but restless butts planted in their seats?
The Albany Times Union, in a May 7 copyrighted story, tells what happened to parents Michael and Jill Carroll of Albany, N.Y., when they tried to take their son, 7-year-old Kyle, off the Ritalin.
Kyle Carroll was first prescribed Ritalin last year, after he fell behind at school. Teachers drew up an Individualized Education Plan, a standard course of action for children with “special needs.” But last fall, when Kyle started second grade, the Ritalin didn’t seem to be doing much good.

Furthermore, the Carrolls grew concerned that Kyle was only sleeping about five hours a night and eating just one meal a day — lunch. So they told school officials they wanted to take Kyle off the Ritalin for two weeks to see if that helped.
That’s when they got a call, and then a visit, from a Child Protective Services worker, based on a complaint from Kyle’s school guidance counselor.
The charge? “Child abuse,” in the form of “medical neglect.” In plain English? Expressing doubts about keeping their child on dope.
As a result, the Times Union reports the Carrolls are now on a statewide list of alleged child abusers, and find themselves “thrust into an Orwellian family court battle to clear their name and ensure their child isn’t removed from their home.”
The child remains on the medication, “in part because they fear child welfare workers will take him away if they don’t,” the Albany daily reports.
Furthermore, the Albany paper found the Carrolls’ case is far from unique, reporting: “Public schools are increasingly accusing parents of child abuse and neglect if they balk at giving their children medication such as Ritalin, a stimulant being prescribed to more and more students.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics reports as many as 3.8 million schoolchildren, mostly boys, have now been diagnosed with the newly-coined “ADHD” — attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder — a psychiatric “disease” with symptoms to which most of our grandparents would have responded by simply smiling: “Boys will be boys.” Or perhaps by asking, “Could it be that he finds your school boring? Does it really make sense to spend three or four years teaching reading, a skill easily mastered in six weeks if you’d just use phonics?”
At least a million children now take Ritalin for this “disorder.” In two school districts near Virginia Beach, Va., for instance, a 1999 study by psychologist Gretchen LeFever found fully 20 percent of white boys in the fifth grade in the 1995-96 school year were receiving prescription drugs for ADHD. And even the AAP acknowledged in a recent study that many cases are misdiagnosed.
“This thing is so scary,” says Patricia Weathers, of Millbrook, a suburb of Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Officials at the Millbrook school district called police and child protective services when she took her 9-year-old son, Michael Mozer, off medications earlier this year.
Weathers reported her child’s prescribed drug cocktail — including Ritalin, the anti-depressant Paxil, and Dexedrine (another stimulant, like Ritalin) caused her boy — now attending a private school — to hallucinate.
“Absent evidence that the lives of children are at stake when they’re not on Ritalin,” USA Today editorialized this week, “no arm of the state should be ramming the drug treatment down parents’ — and children’s — throats.”
Amen to that. The underlying problem here is the notion that children belong first to the state — that they’re best “socialized” in state-run institutions, and that biological parents are allowed to retain custody only at the discretion of school and “child welfare” officials, who after all have “professional diplomas,” and thus “know best.”
No free country can long operate under such a presumption, with its inevitable corrosive effect on the family. And this — at least as much as the corresponding academic failures of the public schools — is what drives the large and growing movement for separation of school and state. (See: www.sepschool.org)
Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, “Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998,” is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html.
Other stories by this author: (open in a new window)
• Could they really have done it on purpose? (August 7, 2000)
• Another silly prohibition (June 1999)
• Give these women guns (October 25, 1999)
• I watched the Bill of Rights dying last week (October 4, 1999)
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:56:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 4:04:39 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate

painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda

known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all-
even

drinking the crap just makes it worse.

Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.

I think everyone in the world should have an emergency dose or two of
ibogaine.   Sorry about your Grandma.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:54:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 1:55:48 AM, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:

No you’re going to watch it? I’m surprised who on this list would watch
CSI’s ibogaine episode? 😉

I do…all the time.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:48:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical records
(methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine,
would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 26, 2004 at 11:04:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all- even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] programming
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:38:51 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

christopher
cadden

—– Original Message —–
From: tracy jones
To: Mr
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] programming

A quick lesson in programming: Rewrite history and make a movie >from the script. Direct it towards a section of the populace you want to control. Make it emotional and maybe add a few subliminals to get it firmly set. Then sit back and take advantage of the results for you better believe the stage has already been set to achieve its intended goal what ever that may be.
Tracy
Subject: The Passion

HI All,

Before I moved to Georgia ( yep- we moved here on Feb 1st), I had an opportunity to see Mel’s movie- a church was having a pre-screening and I was asked by a non-Jewsh friend to go.

Now, I grew up with Christians, dated them, they’re my cousins.  From a Chroistian’s pint of view, this must be a real trip of faith.  But for smeone, who isn’t, it was a gory, bloody, picture I would not pay to see.  To say it was riveting was an understatement and the subtitles ! made it more so.

Unfortunately, if anyone who is even mildly anti-semetic goes to see this movie, they will be rabid when they come out.  The mob scenes leave no doubt who wants Jesus dead, the high priests are very sinister and there is human type spector who implies its Jewishness.  Pilate looks like a coward, who is driven by the mob.  It’s awful.  Scared the hell out of me, and I don’t scare easy. Not for kids under 16 in my opinion.

I was so angry that when I came home I threw out ALL of my Gibson movies and made the kids do the same. I will never see any more of his stuff. There was no diclaimer, nothing to allay fears or sooth hate either before or after this movie.

While I don’t hear the pounding of the Cossack hoofs, this movie on top of a President who is now trying to write discrimination back   into the Constitution ( I don’t like gay marriage either, but this o! pens very dangerous precedents- i.e: an amendment to make Christianity the state faith- don’t laugh either), a miserable economy and I think I might just keep some liquid assets handy and a current passport.  Also, I’ve received some information from unnamed cousins about “Hebrew distillers and brewers” that come right out of Henry Ford’s anti-Semetic rag “The Dearborn Independent”.( buying a Ford is like buying a Porsche or Mercedes- both Carl Porsche and Ferdinand Merceded were rising stars of the SS).

My friends are my friends  (until they prove otherwise)-Christian or not. We need to be watchful for a little while and see what happens-hopefully, G-d willing, nothing will. But we must remember our past or we will be doomed to repat it.

Love to all,

Cheri

Willard Water 160.00 4 gallon case XXX concentrate. For lesser amounts 45.00 per gallon delivered. Remote depossession 25.00 paypal preferred.
http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/

The homepage and the place to sign up for Tracy’s Corner is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mr_Tracys_Corner

For complaints or assistance contact xootsuit26@softhome.net

Yahoo! Groups Links
• To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mr_Tracys_Corner/
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Mr_Tracys_Corner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] remedy appendicitis
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:38:40 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

christopher
cadden

—– Original Message —–
From: tracy jones
To: Mr
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] remedy appendicitis

The Appendix
The appendix extends downward from the cecum, which is the most toxic spot in the body (see drawing pate 46). It was put there to siphon away “excess” toxic energies from the cecum area of the colon. The appendix is surrounded by clusters of lymph nodes called Peyer’s patch. The cecum is the end of the small intestine ends and the beginning of the large intestine. It’s where parasites hang out. It is 6 feet up from the anus and the end of the road during colon therapy.
(Young Again, Thomas, pg 361)
A high colonic and drinking water remedies appendicitis according to Schulze.
Tracy

Willard Water 160.00 4 gallon case XXX concentrate. For lesser amounts 45.00 per gallon delivered. Remote depossession 25.00 paypal preferred.
http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/

The homepage and the place to sign up for Tracy’s Corner is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mr_Tracys_Corner

For complaints or assistance contact xootsuit26@softhome.net

Yahoo! Groups Links
• To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mr_Tracys_Corner/
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Mr_Tracys_Corner-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLA…
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:04:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is one time I am glad to be sitting here in Tennessee and could not participate.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] CSI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 9:35:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, the show is half over and personally I feel “so far, so good”!
I have already had a girlfriend/fellow Methadone Clinic buddy call for me to tune in!
Callie

From: “Dr. Thomas S. Lee” <ndezine@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] change of address
Date: February 26, 2004 at 9:00:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

move my sub over to dr.lee@starband.net

also stop everything to ndezine@yahoo.com

thanks much  -t

Thomas S. Lee, NMD
NaturoDoc, LLC
1711 Stockton Hill Rd., #304
Kingman, AZ 86401
928-767-4743 Phone
928-767-4643 Fax
480-510-9310 Mobile

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 8:54:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny you 😉

I’m not reading this list until much later, don’t need to have it spoiled
by the east coasters who are going to be seeing it at 9 while we have
to wait more hours!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:44:32 -0800 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

No you’re going to watch it? I’m surprised who on this list would
watch
CSI’s ibogaine episode? 😉

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro that was hysterical 🙂 True too 🙂

Dana is the CSI show based on you and Cures Not Wars? I read the
article
and that it what it says.

watching CSI!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:47:16 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery]
wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for
being
jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like
miscreants,

| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…?  You give someone a Ph.D.
and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing
problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal.  It’s like a
breath
of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche.  It’s like; well,
it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana!  YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:

https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=————————————————————-
——–=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=————————————————————-
——–=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 8:44:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No you’re going to watch it? I’m surprised who on this list would watch
CSI’s ibogaine episode? 😉

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro that was hysterical 🙂 True too 🙂

Dana is the CSI show based on you and Cures Not Wars? I read the
article
and that it what it says.

watching CSI!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:47:16 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery]
wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being
jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like
miscreants,

| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…?  You give someone a Ph.D.
and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing
problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal.  It’s like a breath
of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche.  It’s like; well, it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana!  YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 8:11:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro that was hysterical 🙂 True too 🙂

Dana is the CSI show based on you and Cures Not Wars? I read the article
and that it what it says.

watching CSI!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:47:16 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery] wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being
jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like miscreants,

| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…?  You give someone a Ph.D.
and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal.  It’s like a breath
of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche.  It’s like; well, it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana!  YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick, Iboga yesterday Ibogaine today what is it going to be tommorow?
Date: February 26, 2004 at 6:43:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

TEN YEARS OF THERAPY IN ONE NIGHT 

Could a single trip on a piece of African rootbark help a junkie kick the habit? That was the claim in the 1960s, and now iboga is back in the spotlight.  But is it a miracle cure? Daniel Pinchbeck decided to give it a go.  And life, he says, will never be the same again… 

In 1962, Howard Lotsof, a 19-year-old heroin addict in New York, ordered from a chemist iboga, a plant used in West African rituals, and tried it for extra kicks.  After consuming the bitter rootbark powder, he experienced a visionary tour of his early memories.  Thirty hours later, when the effects had subsided, he found that he had lost all craving for heroin, without withdrawal symptoms of any kind.  He said he then gave iboga to seven other addicts and five stopped taking drugs immediately afterwards. 

In 1985, Lotsof patented the ibogaine molecule for the purposes of addiction treatment, but could not get his treatment approved.  In the interim years, ibogaine had been declared, along with LSD and several other psychedelic molecules, an illegal “schedule one” substance, with potential for abuse and no medical value.  Although it found dedicated support among a ragtag group of countercultural activists and left-over Yippies, in 1995 the National Institutes of Health discontinued research into the substance, and pharmaceutical companies have since ignored it, perhaps due to low profit potential. 

But now, interest in ibogaine is growing rapidly, passing a “tipping point” through a combination of anecdotal evidence, underground activism, journalism and scientific research.  Articles have appeared in US publications ranging >from the authoritative Journal Of The American Medical Association ( Jama ) to the populist Star.  The Jama piece, Addiction Treatment Strives For Legitimacy, described the drug’s stalled and tortured path through the regulatory agencies, noting that the treatment’s frustrated supporters in the US have set up an “underground railroad” to give addicts access to the drug: “While unknowable scores of addicts continue ingesting ibogaine hydrochloride purified powder – or iboga whole-plant extract containing a dozen or more active alkaloids – few trained researchers witness the events.” 

The Star took a more colourful approach: “Rare Root Has Celebs Buzzing” it said, trumpeting the treatment as the hot ticket for “the numerous celebs who look for relief from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniel’s, a needle or prescription medicine”.  The article insinuates that “some of our favourite A-listers” not only get cured but enjoy the hallucinations as an illicit “fringe benefit”.  Outside the US, new clinics have opened in Mexico, Canada and Europe, offering reasonably priced, medically supervised opportunities to try ibogaine as a method of overcoming addiction.  In fact, at one new clinic in Vancouver, the treatment is free. 

Iboga is the sacred essence of the religion of the Bwiti tribe of Gabon and Cameroon.  Most members of the tribe ingest it just once in their lives, during an initiation ceremony in which massive amounts of the powdered bark are consumed.  Through this ritual, they become a baanzi, one who has seen the other world.  “Iboga brings about the visual, tactile and auditory certainty of the irrefutable existence of the beyond,” wrote the French chemist Robert Goutarel, who studied the Bwiti.  The iboga bark’s visionary power is produced by a complicated cocktail of alkaloids that seems to affect many of the known neurotransmitters, including serotonin and dopamine.  Its complex molecular key may lock into the addiction receptors in a way that resets patterns and blocks the feedback loops that reinforce dependency. 

In an essay on ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties, Dr Carl Anderson of McLean Hospital, Virginia, speculated that addiction is related to a disrupted relationship between the brain’s two hemispheres, and that ibogaine may cause “bihemispheric reintegration”.  Ibogaine also accesses REM sleep in a powerful way – many people need considerably less sleep for several months after an ibogaine trip. 

Six years ago, I became a member of the Bwiti.  I had heard about ibogaine from an assistant in an anarchist bookstore in New York.  On a magazine assignment, I went to Gabon and took iboga in an initiation ceremony.  It was one of the most difficult, yet rewarding, experiences of my life.  I had heard the substance described as “10 years of psychoanalysis in a single night” but, of course, I did not believe it.  As the tribesmen played drums and sang around me until dawn, I lay on a concrete floor and journeyed back through the course of my life up to that point, witnessing forgotten scenes from childhood.  At one point, I had a vision of a wooden statue walking across the room and sitting in front of me – later, I was told this was “the spirit of iboga” coming out to communicate with me. 

My Bwiti initiation was complicated by a belligerent, greedy shaman who called himself The King and demanded more money from us before, during and after the ceremony.  The King was also dissatisfied with the visions I described, and threatened to keep feeding me more iboga until I reported more impressive sights.  The initiation, which lasted more than 20 hours, was ultimately liberating.  At one point, I was shown my habitual overuse of alcohol and the effect it was having on my relationships, my writing and my psyche.  When I returned to the US, I steadily reduced my drinking to a fraction of its previous level – an adjustment that seems to be permanent. 

Recently, I tried ibogaine for a second time.  I took it at the Ibogaine Association, a clinic in Rosarito, Mexico.  I had been contacted by a heroin addict who had been inspired to take ibogaine after reading the book I wrote about my experiences: three months after his first treatment in Mexico, he was still clean – after a 12-year dependency.  He told me, “Your book saved my life.” He had given Dr Martin Polanco, the clinic’s founder, a copy of my book, and he had offered me a free treatment.  I was curious to see how the experience would differ away from its tribal context.  My new friend wanted to take it again to reinforce the effect.  We went down together. 

Polanco estimates that his clinic has treated nearly 200 addicts in its first 18 months.  About one third of those patients have managed to stay clean – either permanently or for a considerable period; many have returned for a second treatment.  “Ibogaine needs to be much more widely available,” Polanco says.  “We still have a lot to learn about how to administer it, how to work with it.” He does not think iboga is a cure for addiction, but is convinced it is a powerful tool for treatment – and, in some cases, it is a cure.  He plans to set up several non-profit clinics.  “This is something that should be non-profit,” he says.  “After all, it is a plant.  It came up from the earth.  It does give you some guidance.  It shows you how you really are.” He chuckles.  “That can be scary.” 

The Ibogaine Therapy House in Vancouver, British Columbia, opened last November.  “So far, we have treated 14 people quite well,” says Marc Emery, the clinic’s founder and head of the BC Marijuana Party.  “They all say that their life has improved.” Emery, nicknamed the “Prince of Pot”, is funding the free clinic with proceeds from his successful hemp seed business.  “Ibogaine stops the physical addiction without causing withdrawal,” he says, “and it deals with the underlying psychological issues that lead to drug use.” 

Emery estimates that treatment for each patient at the clinic costs around $1,500 ( UKP943 ), which includes two administrations of the drug.  “When I found out about ibogaine, I felt that someone should be researching this, but the drug companies aren’t interested because there is no commercial potential in this type of cure.” Neither he nor Polanco is too concerned about ambiguous studies on ibogaine’s toxicity.  As the Jama article noted, “One reviewer wrote that the drug’s toxicology profile was ‘less than ideal’, with bradycardia [an abnormally slow heartbeat] leading the list of worrisome adverse effects.” 

”From the masses of reports I have studied, a total of six people have died around the time they took ibogaine,” says Emery.  “Some were in poor health, some took other drugs at the time of their treatment.  That doesn’t scare me off.  I have a lot of confidence in ibogaine.” 

At this stage, with little scientific study, the true toxicology of ibogaine is impossible to determine – the treatment is unlicensed in other countries and illegal in the US.  The decision whether or not to take such a risk is entirely personal.  Emery notes that his clinic screens for heart problems and other medical conditions that might contraindicate the treatment.  It also gives patients small daily doses of iboga for two weeks after their initial treatment.  “Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy.  If possible, we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time.  We think that cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.” 

Emery notes that nobody has so far criticised the project, and he is seeking support from local government.  “Iboga tells you to change your ways or else – – it goes over all of your health and personal issues.  It is like the ghost of Christmas past.” 

Randy Hencken drove us from San Diego to the Ibogaine Association.  A 25-year-old former heroin addict who had kicked the habit after two ibogaine treatments at the clinic, he was now working for the association, going to local methadone centres with flyers and keeping in contact with former patients.  The first treatment costs $2,800 ( UKP1,760 ), including an initial medical examination and several days’ convalescence afterwards, but subsequent visits are only $600 ( UKP377 ) – and it seems most addicts need at least two doses of ibogaine to avoid relapsing. 

The Ibogaine Association is in a quiet, dignified house overlooking the Pacific, decorated with Buddhist statues and yarn paintings from Mexico’s Huichol people.  I was given a medical examination by Polanco and a test dose of the drug.  Twentyminutes after ingesting the test dose, I started to feel nervous and light-headed.  As I took the other pills – a gel-capped extract of the rootbark powder – I realised I was in for a serious trip. 

The nurse led me back to my room.  My head already spinning, I lay back on the bed as she hooked me up to an electrocardiograph and headphones playing ambient music.Why was I doing this again? Ibogaine is no pleasure trip.  It not only causes violent nausea and vomiting, but many of the “visions” it induces amount to a painful parading of one’s deepest faults and moral failings.  I had a loud, unpleasant buzzing in my ears – the Bwiti probably pound on drums throughout the ceremony to overwhelm this noise.  With my eyes closed, I watched as images began to emerge like patterns out of TV static.  I saw a black man in a 1940s-looking suit.  He was holding the hand of a five-year-old girl and leading her up some stairs.  I understood that the girl in the vision was me and that the man represented the spirit of iboga.  He was going to show me around his castle. 

While startling at the time, such an encounter with a seeming “spirit of iboga” is a typical vision produced by the Bwiti sacrament.  In many accounts, people describe meeting a primordial African couple in the jungle Sometimes, the iboga spirit manifests itself as a “ball of light” that speaks to the baanzi, saying, “Do you know who I am? I am the chief of the world, I am the essential point!” Part of my trip took the form of an interview that was almost journalistic.  I could ask direct questions of “Mr Iboga” and receive answers that were like emphatic, telegraphed shouts inside my head – even in my deeply stoned state, I managed to scrawl down in my notebook many of the responses. 

I askedMr Iboga what iboga was.  I was told simply: “Primordial wisdom teacher of humanity!” 

Later, my personal faults and lazy, decadent habits were replayed for me in detail.  When I asked what I should do, the answer was stern and paternal: “Get it straight now!” 

This ideal of straightness, uprightness, kept returning during the trip – a meaningful image for me, as I suffer from scoliosis, a curvature of the spine.  When I was shown other faults that seemed rather petty and insignificant, I tried to protest that some of these things really didn’t matter.  Iboga would have none of it, insisting: “Everything matters!” 

Iboga told me that I had no idea of the potential significance of even the smallest actions.  I reviewed some events in my life and my friends’ lives that seemed bitterly unfair.  Yet, in this altered state, I felt I could sense a karmic pattern behind all of them, perhaps extending back to previous incarnations.  Iboga affirmed this, dictating: “God is just!” 

To many readers, these insights may sound trivial.  They did not feel that way at the time.  They were delivered with great force and minimalist precision.  While they might have been manifestations of my own mind, they seemed like the voice of an “other”.  Generally, I never think in such direct terms about “God”, and “primordial wisdom teacher” is not my syntax. 

During the night, I had numerous visions and ponderous metaphysical insights.  At one point, I seemed to fly through the solar system and into the sun, where winged beings were spinning around the core at a tremendous rate.  Up close, they looked like the gold-tinged angels in early Renaissance paintings.  Perhaps due to my recent reading of the Austrian visionary Rudolf Steiner, this whole trip had a kind of eco-Christian flavour to it.  At one point, I thought of humans as an expression of the Gaian Mind, the earth’s sensory organs and self-reflective capacities, at the planet’s present state of development.  If we are changing quickly right now, I considered, it is only because the earth has entered an accelerated phase of transformation, forcing a fast evolution in human consciousness. 

The loud buzzing sound that ibogaine produced seemed to be something like a dial tone, as if the alkaloid were in itself a device for communicating on a different frequency than the usual one.  Thinking of my girlfriend and our child, I realised that I was lucky – “You are lucky!” Mr Iboga echoed.  I felt tremendous, tearful gratitude that I had been given a chance to live and love, to explore and try to understand so many things. 

As so often these days, I pondered on the terrible state of the world – wars and terrors and environmental ruin.  I saw sheets of radioactive flame devouring cities, huge crowds reduced to cinders.  I asked Mr Iboga if this was going to be the tragic fate of humanity.  The answer I received was startling – and reassuring: “Everything is safe in God’s hands!” 

As ludicrous as it may sound, this message has stayed with me and alleviated much paranoia and anxiety.  While tripping, I decided that Mr Iboga was a form of enlightened mind, like a buddha who had chosen a different form, as a plant spirit rather than human teacher, to work with humanity, imparting a cosmic message of “tough love”.  At one point I asked if he would consider incarnating as a person, and the answer I got was, basically, “Already did that!” – implying that, in some previous cycle, he had passed through the perilous stages of evolution we are now navigating.  I also came away from this trip with the suspicion that iboga was the original inspiration for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Biblical tale.  The plant’s placement in equatorial Africa, cradle of humanity, would support this idea, as well as its sobering moral rectitude.  The “good and evil” that iboga reveals is not abstract but deeply personal, and rooted in the character of the individual. 

Late in the night, I retched and vomited out bitter rootbark residue.  I put on a CD of African drumming.  Closing my eyes, I watched a group of smiling Bwiti women dance around a jungle bonfire.  After that, the visions died down, although it was impossible to sleep until late the next night. 

My friend in recovery had a less visionary experience.  His faults were also paraded in front of him in repetitive loops that seemed endless.  At one point, I heard him scream out, “No! No! No!” He saw a possible future for himself if he didn’t kick heroin – becoming a dishwasher, sinking into dissolute old age with a bad back and a paunch.  He asked what he could do to help save the world.  He was told: “Clean up your room!” Meditating on his experience later, my friend quipped, “Ibogaine is God’s way of saying, ‘You’re mine!’ ” 

Daniel Pinchbeck’s book about his experiences, Breaking Open The Head: A Visionary Journey From Cynicism To Shamanism, is published by Flamingo at UKP12

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Condolences
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:51:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I am very sorry to hear about your grandma. Too bad you live so far away…..I could offer a hug and maybe something to ease your pain. I hope you know I am thinking of you.
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:44:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been clean this entire millennium, who woulda
thunk.<

Sitting here depressed.
I didn’t do igogaine twice, I’ve not been clean this millenium, my
grandmother died today- and I’m out of opiates.
LOL!
Boy, life picks the best moments to lay it all on us, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show

On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 06:45:09PM -0800], [deartheo@ziplip.com] wrote:

| but I am happy your doing well and
| am curious about how your after care went (besides 12 step programs,
| your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know regarding
| 12 step pushers).

I did ibogaine twice — to get unsprung — back-to-back, at St. Kitts.
Since that point in time I’ve dosed on various occasions for different
reasons.  After ibogaine — Take I — I lasted for roughly 35 minutes left
to my own devices.  As soon as the plane landed in San Juan, ’bout 35
minutes is the length of time it took me to find dope, cop, and restart my
relationship with it.

I was dumped into “treatment,” where I lasted for a little over 2 weeks
before getting thrown out.  Ostensibly for “using,” but the actual reasons
are much closer to my attitude about it when confronted with this fact.  I
didn’t nail myself to a cross and explain how highly super-sorry I am.
Because … I wasn’t.

My personal response to traditional “drug treatment,” post-ibogaine was
probably WORSE than the 50 times I’d been dumped into it pre-ibogaine.
Because, I wasn’t dopesick; I had a much lower level of desperation, and
being dosed with a very mild entheogen beforehand, did not in any way
change my resonance-check.  This … is … a buncha bullshit.  And,
nothing much has changed, except I have even greater awareness that none
of this is doing a fucking thing for me.

I blew out, basically stayed high for about 6 weeks while bouncing in and
out of “treatment” programs; redosed with ibogaine, and … that was
Halloween, 1999.  I’ve been clean this entire millennium, who woulda
thunk.

What I did after ibogaine II, was go to an ashram just outside of Bangkok.
Not to visit and hang out, but actually to live there.  I stayed for a
little over 3 months, and while I was there, I did a lot of LSD.

I had set, setting, and intent.  While most of the people where I was at
had no idea exactly why I left the planet — they were highly supportive
and kind to me.  “Well, basically, what you’re doing is wonderful.  And,
this is why we’re all sitting here in an ashram in the middle of nowhere.
Just, keep going!”

Had I taken these same actions within the United States, the outcome would
have been considerably different.  Instead of wrapping up a lifetime of
drug depednence, and being given the opportunity to reset, reintegrate,
and resurrect … it would have taken no more than 48 hours for some
helpful person to have me Baker-acted.  I would have synched back down to
planet Earth, tranked down, in a padded room somewhere, in 4-point
restraints.

Instead of completing the process of reintegration — which took a LOT of
processor time on the Cosmic CPU — it would have amounted to Yet Another
manifestation of my perpetual drug problems kicking up their shit.  The
End.  Here’s a stack of scripts, here’s your new home at a lockdown
in-patient facility, and if you behave, we’ll take the straitjacket off
and let you go smoke cigarettes on the playground.

While the odds that following this exact roadmap will work for anybody
else, are relatively low.  The overall truth remains.  If what you’re
doing is not working; has never worked; and you really do want to step out
of drug dependence … perhaps you need to figure out something else to
do.

To cop a cliche from those 12-step things, “A good definition of insanity,
is doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting different
results.”

Ya know what … that happens to be true.  I *really* wanted to cut loose
heroin.  I’d been in therapy since, basically, birth (well no, since Jr.
High School); I have never felt any resonance with a single fucking thing
anybody had to say to me while I was at the receiving end of, “drug
treatment.”  So, then, perhaps … I need to do something else.  Because
the truth is … my inability to get in tune with the dogma of some cult;
has exactly NOTHING to do with cutting loose junk.

What I actually learned from a lifetime of “treatment” and what I found
while accessing much greater spaces/places/truths while dosing with
entheogens … was EXACTLY THE SAME: as long as you keep digging in shit,
you’re gonna be covered in it.  Find something else to do.

What worked for me was connecting myself to the God of my understanding,
and HOLDING ON TO THAT CONNECTION.

So, anywaze, that’s me … I don’t know you, what you’ve written here:

| I’ll work you into my 9th step : )

Indicates that you’re working the steps.

Okay, so … when you do this and go to meetings; do you — at least SOME
OF THE TIME — come away filled with some greater level of strength, hope,
and/or understanding …?

If yes, well, that fucking rocks.  Keep doing it.

If no, well … have you tried to find a group that works for you and
people who are willing to accept your beliefs.  The 12-steps dig the
sponsor concept; do you have one?  If you don’t, well … is there ANYBODY
in the meetings you go to, that has anything you want?  If yes, then
FUCKING TALK TO THEM.

I don’t work the steps, per se, although much of what I do on a daily
basis, lights up and synchs with prolly at least half of the concepts the
12-steps are based upon — but, if they’re not working for you, have you
tried Rational Recovery (the not-for-profit version I b’lieve is called
SMART)?  Randy would know much more about the specifics of this paradigm
than I do, ‘cuz he actually used it post-ibogaine.

The only thing I would add to whatever paradigm you’re using — you can
name it anything you want, you can call it Step 13, Step 1,
WhateverTheFuck, amounts to: JUST KEEP GETTING BACK UP … because
eventually you WILL stand.  All you *must* do, is believe that it is
possible.

Success — at anything — just amounts to persistence, “Sorry, I’m very
hard-headed and I’m not listening to you explain my limitations to me.
I’m, just, gonna keep going.  Because I’m too stupid to give up.”

Other than all of that, much of what people have to say about “addiction,”
is — at best — pseudoscience.  “Once an addict, always an addict,” is
also a crock of shit.  The brain reorganizes itself, it’s called
neuroplasticity.  An extremely cool starting-point, is this thing here:

The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force.
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D

This is a very easy to read book, and gives you a lot of references to
read sideways, if you want to gain some greater level of understanding.

Anywaze, this is getting long, and I could write another thousand
paragraphs on this topic; wait, no, nevermind, I already have.

| You are probably correct, I appoligize to all involved…it’s very
| frustrating to come to this list for some kind of support in the sense
| that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga is mentioned, but
| their apperars to be very little of that and what I wrote was out of
| that frustation and I’m definately no where close to be done yet in
| regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse though, I should have
| bit my tounge…

This list is whatever people choose to turn it into.  I’m not the
babysitter.  Everyone is free to say anything they like … however, that
also applies to me.  When random, pseudoanonymous idiots, land here and
start dumping hate.  I’m really not required to say, “That’s very special,
thank you.”

There actually IS another ibogaine list here; sacrament.  It was created
for people who had done ibogaine and were trying to maintain.

But … nobody ever posts to it.  I think maybe 75 people signed up, said
a few things, and went back to sleep.

*THIS* list has — as of last week — passed just over 5,000 people.  The
same 75-100 have written 95% of the messages.  The rest … I dunno why
they’re here.  But this isn’t very unusual.  We’ve been running online
conferences since long before www. and port 80 existed; before @ signs
existed; and … this is pretty much the dynamic … it doesn’t seem to
make a difference whether the subject is music, hacking, drugs, or
“recovery.”

I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t write much to the list right now;
but there are always at least a handful of individuals here who have been
there, done that, maintained in a variety of ways; and consistently
provide advice that contains at least SOME useful elements.

Laters,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Smart recovery
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:38:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Self-Help Addiction Recovery – SMART Recovery 4-Point Program – Alternative to AA

A very worthwihile program.  If there are no meetings in your area they have online meetings.  I also reccomend picking up some literature from the suggested reading section.

~Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] government has their own agenda.
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:37:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When the government doesn’t listen to the Pentagon  Do you think it would listen to us?
This is not about Ibogaine but about hypocritical mentality of governments  which is affecting us all everyday.
I must admit I have anger in me and the reason is hypocritical mentalities in all fields of life , politics  research business relationships agriculture and religion.

So. This one of the scary proves to the hypocritical attitude of a government that victimize us.

Mark Townsend and Paul Harris in New York
Sunday February 22, 2004
The Observer

Climate change over the next 20 years could result in a global catastrophe costing millions of lives in wars
and natural disasters..

A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a ‘Siberian’ climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world.

The document predicts that abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies. The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism, say the few experts privy to its contents.

’Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life,’ concludes the Pentagon analysis. ‘Once again, warfare would define human life.’

The findings will prove humiliating to the Bush administration, which has repeatedly denied that climate change even exists. Experts said that they will also make unsettling reading for a President who
has insisted national defence is a priority.

The report was commissioned by influential Pentagon defence adviser Andrew Marshall, who has held considerable sway on US military thinking over the past three decades. He was the man behind a sweeping recent review aimed at transforming the American military under Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Climate change ‘should be elevated beyond a scientific debate to a US national security concern’, say the authors, Peter Schwartz, CIA consultant and former head of planning at Royal Dutch/Shell Group, and Doug Randall of the California-based Global Business Network.

An imminent scenario of catastrophic climate change is ‘plausible and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately’, they conclude. As early as next year widespread flooding by a rise in sea levels will create major upheaval for millions.

Last week the Bush administration came under heavy fire from a large body of respected scientists who claimed that it cherry-picked science to suit its policy agenda and suppressed studies that it did not
like. Jeremy Symons, a former whistleblower at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said that suppression of the report for four months was a further example of the White House trying to bury the
threat of climate change.

Senior climatologists, however, believe that their verdicts could prove the catalyst in forcing Bush to accept climate change as a real and happening phenomenon. They also hope it will convince the United States to sign up to global treaties to reduce the rate of climatic change.

A group of eminent UK scientists recently visited the White House to voice their fears over global warming, part of an intensifying drive to get the US to treat the issue seriously. Sources have told The Observer that American officials appeared extremely sensitive about the issue when faced with complaints that America’s public stance appeared increasingly out of touch.

One even alleged that the White House had written to complain about some of the comments attributed to Professor Sir David King, Tony Blair’s chief scientific adviser, after he branded the President’s
position on the issue as indefensible.

Among those scientists present at the White House talks were Professor John Schellnhuber, former chief environmental adviser to the German government and head of the UK’s leading group of climate scientists at the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research. He said that the Pentagon’s internal fears should prove the ‘tipping point’ in persuading Bush to accept climatic change.

Sir John Houghton, former chief executive of the Meteorological Office – and the first senior figure to liken the threat of climate change to that of terrorism – said: ‘If the Pentagon is sending out that
sort of message, then this is an important document indeed.’

Bob Watson, chief scientist for the World Bank and former chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, added that the Pentagon’s dire warnings could no longer be ignored.

’Can Bush ignore the Pentagon? It’s going be hard to blow off this sort of document. Its hugely embarrassing. After all, Bush’s single highest priority is national defence. The Pentagon is no
wacko, liberal group, generally speaking it is conservative. If climate change is a threat to national security and the economy, then he has to act. There are two groups the Bush Administration tend to
listen to, the oil lobby and the Pentagon,’ added Watson.

’You’ve got a President who says global warming is a hoax, and across the Potomac river you’ve got a Pentagon preparing for climate wars. It’s pretty scary when Bush starts to ignore his own government on this issue,’ said Rob Gueterbock of Greenpeace.

Already, according to Randall and Schwartz, the planet is carrying a higher population than it can sustain.
By 2020 ‘catastrophic’ shortages of water and energy supply will become increasingly harder to overcome, plunging the planet into war. They warn that 8,200 years ago climatic conditions brought widespread crop failure, famine, disease and mass migration of populations that could soon be repeated.

Randall told The Observer that the potential ramifications of rapid climate change would create global chaos. ‘This is depressing stuff,’ he said. ‘It is a national security threat that is unique because
there is no enemy to point your guns at and we have no control over the threat.’

Randall added that it was already possibly too late to prevent a disaster happening. ‘We don’t know exactly where we are in the process. It could start tomorrow and we would not know for another five years,’ he said.

’The consequences for some nations of the climate change are unbelievable. It seems obvious that cutting the use of fossil fuels would be worthwhile.’

So dramatic are the report’s scenarios, Watson said, that they may prove vital in the US elections. Democratic frontrunner John Kerry is known to accept climate change as a real problem. Scientists disillusioned with Bush’s stance are threatening to make sure Kerry uses the Pentagon report in his campaign.

The fact that Marshall is behind its scathing findings will aid Kerry’s cause. Marshall, 82, is a Pentagon legend who heads a secretive think-tank dedicated to weighing risks to national security called the Office of Net Assessment. Dubbed ‘Yoda’ by Pentagon insiders who respect his vast experience, he is credited with being behind the Department of Defence’s push on ballistic-missile defence.

Symons, who left the EPA in protest at political interference, said that the suppression of the report was a further instance of the White House trying to bury evidence of climate change. ‘It is yet another example of why this government should stop burying its head in the sand on this issue.’

Symons said the Bush administration’s close links to high-powered energy and oil companies was vital in understanding why climate change was received sceptically in the Oval Office. ‘This administration is ignoring the evidence in order to placate a handful of large energy and oil companies,’ he added.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:34:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

right on.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Project

: ) very cool.
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 26 Feb 04, 1:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Project
A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during disaster so
that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and dosed so
as to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal
experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System for
Potential Disasters” project.  Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for
reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing the
feasibility and planning phase.  This phase, (Phase I) is intended to
explore the issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring
service continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or
manmade disasters.  The project is examining various data systems that could
be used by programs to share just enough patient information that if, a
program closure occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment
program for medication.  The project is focused on the New York,
Connecticut, and New Jersey region because of their experience with
disasters, as a result of September 11.  Phase II would involve conducting a
regional pilot of a system based on recommendations made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and Human
Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently in
the process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year,
especially for new projects.  I would like to assure you that the issues
addressed by this project are a major concern to SAMHSA.  For instance,
SAMHSA requires treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as
part of “doing business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of us
at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next phase”
of your life.

H. Westley Clark, MD, JD, MPH
Director
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
US Department of Health and Human Services
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockwall II Bldg, Suite 615
Rockville, MD 20857
301.443.5700 (phone)
301.443-8751 (fax)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:28:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol! Probably is but I appreciate them taking the time to even answer. I really didn’t expect them to do that! They also said that “all of them at SAMHSA are very interested in our continued success in this next phase of our life”!! lol!
Callie

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:19:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical records (methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine, would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 25 Feb 04, 10:10 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] from DHHS and NPR e-mail address
(not much new here I’m afraid)

February 24, 2004
Mr. Jason Bursey
5827 Timbercrest Drive
Arlington, Texas 76017
Dear Mr. Bursey:
Your emails to Dr. Elias A. Zerhouni, Director of the National Institutes of Health, and
Mr. Claude A. Allen, Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services, regarding ibogaine have
been sent to me for response.
In your emails, you ask a number of questions concerning the role of the Federal Government in
ibogaine research and scheduling. While anecdotal evidence of treatment successes (such as in
your case) and treatment failures with ibogaine have existed for years, the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) requires that a substantial amount of data be submitted concerning the
safety and efficacy of a product prior to approving it for use as a therapeutic agent. Anecdotal
evidence (positive, negative, or both) does not meet the regulatory requirements of the FDA
under which new treatment agents can be approved.
In 1991, based largely on the information provided by Mr. Howard Lotsof, Dr. Deborah Mash
and others, the Medications Development Division (now the Division of Treatment Research and
Development) of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), created a medications
development project directed towards exploring the potential development of ibogaine. This
occurred at a time when Mr. Lotsof, who owned patents concerning the use of ibogaine as a drug
addiction treatment agent, and the law firm he hired could not find any commercial entity in the
United States (U.S.) willing to license and/or develop ibogaine. As part of this initiative, the
project team carried out research studies addressing various issues including the pharmacology
and toxicology of ibogaine as required by the FDA. Preclinical studies showed that ibogaine
possessed dose related neurotoxic effects in the rat, dog, and monkey including the ability to
cause seizures, neuron losses, and cardiovascular-QT prolongation which has been associated
with an increased risk of ventricular arrhythmia, which may result in fatal arrhythmias. It is
important to note that dose related toxicity alone does not necessarily rule out further
development of a medication. However, a safe dose level must be determined for human use.
This information is critical, as literature exists potentially linking ibogaine to deaths (including
during ceremonial use in Africa).
In 1995, prior to commencing a Phase I clinical trial of ibogaine in opiate dependent human
subjects, a review was held with a panel of outside expert consultants who were charged with
reviewing the available data to help determine whether NIDA should pursue a clinical study with
ibogaine. A number of persons and organizations interested in ibogaine participated in this
Page 2 – Mr. Jason Bursey
review meeting. Mr. Lotsof presented data on the number of subjects he had treated with
ibogaine and their outcomes. In addition to the toxicological findings, the data presented by
Mr. Lotsof (number of treatment successes versus treatment failures, time to relapse) did not
appear to offer increased efficacy over existing methods of opiate detoxification. The majority
opinion of the consultants was that NIDA should not pursue a clinical trial of ibogaine.
Subsequent to NIDA’s decision not to directly perform clinical trials with ibogaine, Dr. Mash
and Mr. Lotsof entered a business agreement concerning the development of ibogaine and
received FDA approval to perform a Phase I study in the U.S. This study was never completed.
Dr. Mash has been administering treatment with ibogaine at the Healing Visions Institute for
Addiction Recovery on the island of St. Kitts.
Thus, although ibogaine is no longer part of NIDA’s directed medications development efforts,
we will continue to fund research projects on ibogaine through grants that receive meritorious
scores in peer review. NIDA continues to make all of the preclinical data it developed (currently
residing as a Drug Master File with the FDA) available to researchers interested in conducting
clinical studies with ibogaine.
Some of the lack of interest in ibogaine may stem from the fact that the drug lacks a composition
of matter patent. Compounds lacking such protection are usually given short shrift by the
pharmaceutical industry as their commercial value is very limited.
Regarding current U.S. scheduling of ibogaine, under U.S. law, psychoactive substances that
meet defined criteria and have no FDA approved medical uses must be placed in Schedule I.
Ibogaine is considered hallucinogenic and thus far has no FDA approved medical use. This does
not mean that medical research cannot be performed with ibogaine or other Schedule I
substances, but researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping requirement
standards that pertain to Schedule I substances. For more information on scheduling, please
contact the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.
I hope that you find this information helpful.
Sincerely,
Nora D. Volkow, M.D.
Director
—————————————————————————————————————————

(Morning Edition, the program which is running this special regularly reads
letters on-air. Email to morning@npr.org) http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1688762for more info.

Dear Mr. Bursey,
Attached is the letter from Dr. Nora D. Volkow, Director of the National
Institute on Drug Abuse, responding to your emails to Dr. Elias Zerhouni and
Mr. Claude Allen regarding ibogaine.  I also sent this letter to you via
mail.

Best regards,

Monglan (Lana) Le
Correspondence System Coordinator
NIDA Executive Secretariat
6001 Executive Blvd., Room 5101, MSC 9585
(301) 443-6618 phone
(301) 443-8756 fax
mle1@nida.nih.gov
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:47:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery] wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like miscreants,
| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…?  You give someone a Ph.D. and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal.  It’s like a breath of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche.  It’s like; well, it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana!  YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:58:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being jerks
on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like miscreants,
I’d reprimand them.

You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

Patrick Kroupa said >>>>For what it’s worth, the person who responded to
Marc — yo dere Mr.
Schmooly! — is a friend of mine, who DOES know what he’s talking about,
regarding a variety of topics related to medicine, addiction, and
ibogaine.

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:06:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

: ) very cool.
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 26 Feb 04, 1:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during disaster so that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and dosed so as to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters” project.  Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing the feasibility and planning phase.  This phase, (Phase I) is intended to explore the issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring service continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or manmade disasters.  The project is examining various data systems that could be used by programs to share just enough patient information that if, a program closure occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment program for medication.  The project is focused on the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey region because of their experience with disasters, as a result of September 11.  Phase II would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on recommendations made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and Human Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently in the process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year, especially for new projects.  I would like to assure you that the issues addressed by this project are a major concern to SAMHSA.  For instance, SAMHSA requires treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of us at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next phase” of your life.

H. Westley Clark, MD, JD, MPH
Director
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
US Department of Health and Human Services
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockwall II Bldg, Suite 615
Rockville, MD 20857
301.443.5700 (phone)
301.443-8751 (fax)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “brad fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:59:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Looks like the response Callie received is a clone to the response I
received even though they came from two different individuals???????
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:37:15 EST
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Project

A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during
disaster so
that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and
dosed so as
to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal
experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System
for Potential
Disasters” project.  Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing
the
feasibility and planning phase.  This phase, (Phase I) is intended to
explore the
issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring service
continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or
manmade
disasters.  The project is examining various data systems that could be
used by
programs to share just enough patient information that if, a program
closure
occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment program for
medication.  The
project is focused on the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey region
because of their experience with disasters, as a result of September
11.  Phase II
would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on
recommendations
made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and
Human
Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently
in the
process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year,
especially
for new projects.  I would like to assure you that the issues addressed
by this
project are a major concern to SAMHSA.  For instance, SAMHSA requires
treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing
business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of
us at
SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next
phase” of
your life.

H. Westley Clark, MD, JD, MPH
Director
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
US Department of Health and Human Services
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockwall II Bldg, Suite 615
Rockville, MD 20857
301.443.5700 (phone)
301.443-8751 (fax)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “brad fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:56:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I too sent an e-mail to an address posted on this site.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: “Robert Lubran” <RLubran@samhsa.gov>
To: <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:27:54 -0500
Subject: Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Dr. Clark, Director of the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment (CSAT),
which is part of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration (SAMHSA), asked me to respond to your recent e-mail
concerning the “Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters”
project currently being funded by SAMHSA.  [This is the same project you
referred to as the “Patient Dignity” project.]   I am the Director of the
Division of Pharmacologic Therapies at CSAT.  We very much appreciate
your taking the time to write and to share your personal experience
related to the need for a system such as this one.

Please let me give you a brief update about the project.  At this point,
we are close to finishing the feasibility and planning phase, or Phase I.
Phase I examines various data systems that will allow opioid treatment
programs (OTPs) to share just enough patient information so that a
patient could go to another OTP for medication in the event that a
patient is unable to get to their home program.  Phase I has focused on
the New York, Connecticut and New Jersey region because of their
experiences with the September 11, 2001, emergency.

Phase II would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on
recommendations made in Phase I.  Congress just recently completed action
on our agency’s funding request for 2004.  Therefore, we are still in the
process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year,
especially for new projects.  Even so, I want to assure you that the
issues you raise are important to SAMHSA.  For instance, SAMHSA requires
treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing
business” because we are very much aware how much it matters to patients
that they can rely on the treatment system.  Also, SAMHSA and its Center
for Substance Abuse Treatment fund a number of other projects and
activities on behalf of persons being treated for opioid dependence.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of
us at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next
phase” of your life.

Sincerely,

Robert Lubran
Director, Division of Pharmacologic Therapies
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:37:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during disaster so that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and dosed so as to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters” project.  Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing the feasibility and planning phase.  This phase, (Phase I) is intended to explore the issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring service continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or manmade disasters.  The project is examining various data systems that could be used by programs to share just enough patient information that if, a program closure occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment program for medication.  The project is focused on the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey region because of their experience with disasters, as a result of September 11.  Phase II would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on recommendations made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and Human Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently in the process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year, especially for new projects.  I would like to assure you that the issues addressed by this project are a major concern to SAMHSA.  For instance, SAMHSA requires treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of us at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next phase” of your life.

H. Westley Clark, MD, JD, MPH
Director
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
US Department of Health and Human Services
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockwall II Bldg, Suite 615
Rockville, MD 20857
301.443.5700 (phone)
301.443-8751 (fax)

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] re:props
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:27:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“hey:: patrik, steve, marc, jason, howard, preston, sara, brett, callie and ALL of you crazee kidz out there, all deserve to know that you rock and you are all loved…”

aaawwww! You touched my soul! Thanks!
Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:23:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett,

You are right.

Let say at least you are not the same kind of addict you used to be, your  will has changed after taking the ibogaine,your vision of life has changed, would you go

back to shooting speedballs even if it felt great and you got it as a present, you will will not let you ,WHY?
Isn’t it that insight that you got that made you change ?
Wouldn’t that insight be a CURE? And you can get there easily in all those way ? Does methadone give you that kind of change?

” I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the best hope for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak. I have had friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits through methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.

I also wonder how long did the research took to find out that Methadone worked or the other stuff  before it became a recognized treatment for addiction?
And what about the  side effects coming off ,are they easily dealt with?

How long do we need to research Ibogaine ? there are other reasons not to have it  legal in the U.S . and it is not because it doesn’t work, or not enough research.
Economically it is better to keep people addicted and consuming, to put them in prison or have them over dose on un controlled  drugs mixed from the streets.

As long as the justice department can get more money in by having drugs illegal, it will stay that way.
We created the police to protect us, if you put your make up wrong on Monday morning you can get arrested as a suspect , drug dealer, terrorist, spy
Then you must prove that you are not, but then you may need to call a lawyer pay him money, to prove that it was only the wrong colour make-up and
Nothing more. But if it isn’t convincing enough because you are black and pink doesn’t match black people  that is what the police thinks , so they can bit you up until turn
Blue. That match better  with pink , then you may go home or kick dope in there , at the police station.

Everyone is guilty until proven not guilty, before it was other way around.

Everyone is an addict until proven not an addict.

Van: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese@yahoo.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2004 18:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI

Iboga/ibogaine does not take away choice (free will), it won’t cure one of (non-drug-induced) stupidity Ibogaine does make that choice far easier, it may cure or nearly so drug cravings as well as the physical addiction, but addicts with nothing better to do go out and use anyway, no cravings and all. I believe ibogaine can clear the slate, heal if not cure much of the damage drug addiction has done, remove the the ingrained patterns. It comes down to how come people use after ibogaine if they are not cured, cause nothing can cure one >from themselves (cept a bullet…) Ibogaine may cure people of some particular demons but I think the issue of addiction is too complex to have one definition of “cured” for a treatment. Can someone be over it, sure, absolutely (99+%). Addiction is a process that starts with like any other disease, a suseptable person and expure to sufficient quantity of the substance to cause a disease (dis-ease, a state of not being at ease). I guess ibo! gaine sort of reverses much of that, an addiction reverser perhaps, it also removes much of the whatever initially interested people to drugs.  Can someone be “cured” by using ibogaine AND doing everything else, to the extent that they will never be active “addicts” again, YES.  It is like ibogaine removes something so people can cure (if you want to use that word) themselves but ibogaine isn’t going to cure me of me against my will. I think when people use the word “cure”, that is what they expect, to be “cured” that it will never happen again – not if you repeat the thoughts and behavior it won’t.

So, here is my opinion why ibogaine is NOT a cure.

People who have successfully been treated with addiction CANNOT safely do the following;

GET HIGH LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE CAN.

For myself

I can’t and wouldn’t do a few “lines”, have a few drinks or smoke a few cigs. A non-addict, non-smoker could and they even if they enjoyed it, it won’t go anywhere.I likely could have a glass of wine or beer and one day may very well do that, but “drinking”, nope. Patrick, as “cured” as he is, it would be a real bad idea if he shot a few bags of dope…
Even though I doubt it is likely Patrick, myself or many successfully treated ibonaughts will (likely)  go anywhere very far, we just can’t safely fuck around with drugs, or at least certain drugs (drugs of choice). I  have to believe for my own safety that I am different than other folks. On the PLUS side I think I am less likely than the general population (3%) actually get “addicted” to pain meds. Perhaps we can immunize the entire population of the planet with iboga.

Maybe we need to establish something like they use for cancer, 3 or 5 year survival (relapse) rates to put a measurement on whatever someone means by the word “cured”.

It certainly is something different than what people normally call addiction, active or not.

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2004 4:42
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax
CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI


”Virtually all physiological systems are affected in opiate addiction. A
reproducible syndrome occurs when an opiate addict goes through withdrawal.
This syndrome includes yawning, lacrimation, piloerection, perspiration,
mydriasis, tremor, gooseflesh, restlessness, myalgia, anorexia, nausea,
vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, fever, hyperpnea, and hypertension.
When prolonged, the syndrome includes weight loss and, even after acute
withdrawal, symptoms subside, persistent symptoms such as sleep
disturbances, irritability, restlessness, and poor concentration which can
b! e present for months or years. Both acute and chronic tolerance are
physiological phenomena subserved by the central nervous system. However,
both acute and chronic tolerance may also be influenced by environmental
variables, such as setting, conditioning, and learning.”


If Iboga Isn’t “a cure” how come most of those symptops ,sometimes all, do
not show ?

Also, how come the need to smoke tobbaco left the person? He could smoke,
He didn’t come for treating his smoking habit, het ried one ciggaret and
didn’t feel that need anymore. 

How come my patient Liz. Went working after the treatment 16 hours a day ,
standing up.she wouldn’t be able to if not for this treatment, she did try
Other treatments before and that is what she thinks.

Is Methadone a Cure? Some people would say it is .

S.





/]=———————————————————————=[\ 
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/
Iboga

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
Date: February 26, 2004 at 2:51:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 07:03:08PM -0800], [nruhtra@dsskcorp.com] wrote:

| and who would you suggest DOES know about such things?  i mean are you
| implying that a specific *cough*mash*/cough* person(s) does?
|
| n
|
| (btw/ps – i know how people can COMPLETELY blow typed word out of
| proportion on this list, so before someone generly ASSUMES something, i AM
| NOT saying that mash DOESNT have knowledge about said topics.  thanks.)
|
| > I have spoken to many doctors and it is clear that Marc E knows nothing ,
| > I
| > mean absolutly nothing about medicine, drug interactions, pharmacokinetics
| > or
| > how Ibo works at all. He may be a saint but a little knowledge can kill.

Actually there are ’bout 25 M.D.s and Ph.D.s whom I know on this list —
and probably another 100 I don’t; since many of the subscribers are not
hiding behind Hotmail, Hushmail, Yahoo, WhateverTheFuck accounts, and have
signed up using their real email.

In the past there are a variety of instances where a specific medical
question was asked … and they gave answers.  It’s in the archives; this
list has roughly 10,000 messages so far … the problem is that nobody
really understands the command line tools for accessing any of this; and
yeah, fuck it, we’ll wrap a web-interface around it, to make searching for
messages much simpler.

But anyway; what happens is 100% consistent.  Somebody asks a question, a
person who ACTUALLY KNOWS THE ANSWER gives it.  And then, a buncha idiots
pop up and start arguing with them.

This leads to a very simple pattern … “Well, ya know.  I’m an M.D. or
Ph.D.  I’ve spent years of my life studying this.  I get published in
peer-reviewed journals.  Someone asks a question, I give the answer, and
… what happens when I do that?”  What happens is people who DO NOT know
what they’re talking about, begin arguing with them.

Which leads right to, “Well, ya know what.  Fuck this.  Why waste my
time?”

And, there is no answer to that.  Why keep trying to help people or answer
questions, when the only response to that action is abuse?

For what it’s worth, the person who responded to Marc — yo dere Mr.
Schmooly! — is a friend of mine, who DOES know what he’s talking about,
regarding a variety of topics related to medicine, addiction, and
ibogaine.

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] please cancel my subscription
Date: February 26, 2004 at 3:14:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please stop all e-mails to me ….

thank you very much

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] please cancel my subscription
Date: February 26, 2004 at 3:14:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please stop all e-mails to me ….

thank you very much

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 26, 2004 at 2:55:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004, 11:43 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show

On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 06:45:09PM -0800], [deartheo@ziplip.com] wrote:

| but I am happy your doing well and
| am curious about how your after care went (besides 12 step programs,
| your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know regarding
| 12 step pushers).

I did ibogaine twice — to get unsprung — back-to-back, at St. Kitts.
Since that point in time I’ve dosed on various occasions for different
reasons.  After ibogaine — Take I — I lasted for roughly 35 minutes left
to my own devices.  As soon as the plane landed in San Juan, ’bout 35
minutes is the length of time it took me to find dope, cop, and restart my
relationship with it.

I was dumped into “treatment,” where I lasted for a little over 2 weeks
before getting thrown out.  Ostensibly for “using,” but the actual reasons
are much closer to my attitude about it when confronted with this fact.  I
didn’t nail myself to a cross and explain how highly super-sorry I am.
Because … I wasn’t.

My personal response to traditional “drug treatment,” post-ibogaine was
probably WORSE than the 50 times I’d been dumped into it pre-ibogaine.
Because, I wasn’t dopesick; I had a much lower level of desperation, and
being dosed with a very mild entheogen beforehand, did not in any way
change my resonance-check.  This … is … a buncha bullshit.  And,
nothing much has changed, except I have even greater awareness that none
of this is doing a fucking thing for me.

I blew out, basically stayed high for about 6 weeks while bouncing in and
out of “treatment” programs; redosed with ibogaine, and … that was
Halloween, 1999.  I’ve been clean this entire millennium, who woulda
thunk.

What I did after ibogaine II, was go to an ashram just outside of Bangkok.
Not to visit and hang out, but actually to live there.  I stayed for a
little over 3 months, and while I was there, I did a lot of LSD.

I had set, setting, and intent.  While most of the people where I was at
had no idea exactly why I left the planet — they were highly supportive
and kind to me.  “Well, basically, what you’re doing is wonderful.  And,
this is why we’re all sitting here in an ashram in the middle of nowhere.
Just, keep going!”

Had I taken these same actions within the United States, the outcome would
have been considerably different.  Instead of wrapping up a lifetime of
drug depednence, and being given the opportunity to reset, reintegrate,
and resurrect … it would have taken no more than 48 hours for some
helpful person to have me Baker-acted.  I would have synched back down to
planet Earth, tranked down, in a padded room somewhere, in 4-point
restraints.

Instead of completing the process of reintegration — which took a LOT of
processor time on the Cosmic CPU — it would have amounted to Yet Another
manifestation of my perpetual drug problems kicking up their shit.  The
End.  Here’s a stack of scripts, here’s your new home at a lockdown
in-patient facility, and if you behave, we’ll take the straitjacket off
and let you go smoke cigarettes on the playground.

While the odds that following this exact roadmap will work for anybody
else, are relatively low.  The overall truth remains.  If what you’re
doing is not working; has never worked; and you really do want to step out
of drug dependence … perhaps you need to figure out something else to
do.

To cop a cliche from those 12-step things, “A good definition of insanity,
is doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting different
results.”

Ya know what … that happens to be true.  I *really* wanted to cut loose
heroin.  I’d been in therapy since, basically, birth (well no, since Jr.
High School); I have never felt any resonance with a single fucking thing
anybody had to say to me while I was at the receiving end of, “drug
treatment.”  So, then, perhaps … I need to do something else.  Because
the truth is … my inability to get in tune with the dogma of some cult;
has exactly NOTHING to do with cutting loose junk.

What I actually learned from a lifetime of “treatment” and what I found
while accessing much greater spaces/places/truths while dosing with
entheogens … was EXACTLY THE SAME: as long as you keep digging in shit,
you’re gonna be covered in it.  Find something else to do.

What worked for me was connecting myself to the God of my understanding,
and HOLDING ON TO THAT CONNECTION.

So, anywaze, that’s me … I don’t know you, what you’ve written here:

| I’ll work you into my 9th step : )

Indicates that you’re working the steps.

Okay, so … when you do this and go to meetings; do you — at least SOME
OF THE TIME — come away filled with some greater level of strength, hope,
and/or understanding …?

If yes, well, that fucking rocks.  Keep doing it.

If no, well … have you tried to find a group that works for you and
people who are willing to accept your beliefs.  The 12-steps dig the
sponsor concept; do you have one?  If you don’t, well … is there ANYBODY
in the meetings you go to, that has anything you want?  If yes, then
FUCKING TALK TO THEM.

I don’t work the steps, per se, although much of what I do on a daily
basis, lights up and synchs with prolly at least half of the concepts the
12-steps are based upon — but, if they’re not working for you, have you
tried Rational Recovery (the not-for-profit version I b’lieve is called
SMART)?  Randy would know much more about the specifics of this paradigm
than I do, ‘cuz he actually used it post-ibogaine.

The only thing I would add to whatever paradigm you’re using — you can
name it anything you want, you can call it Step 13, Step 1,
WhateverTheFuck, amounts to: JUST KEEP GETTING BACK UP … because
eventually you WILL stand.  All you *must* do, is believe that it is
possible.

Success — at anything — just amounts to persistence, “Sorry, I’m very
hard-headed and I’m not listening to you explain my limitations to me.
I’m, just, gonna keep going.  Because I’m too stupid to give up.”

Other than all of that, much of what people have to say about “addiction,”
is — at best — pseudoscience.  “Once an addict, always an addict,” is
also a crock of shit.  The brain reorganizes itself, it’s called
neuroplasticity.  An extremely cool starting-point, is this thing here:

The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force.
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D


/ref=sr_8_2/103-7599119-5503826?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

This is a very easy to read book, and gives you a lot of references to
read sideways, if you want to gain some greater level of understanding.

Anywaze, this is getting long, and I could write another thousand
paragraphs on this topic; wait, no, nevermind, I already have.

| You are probably correct, I appoligize to all involved…it’s very
| frustrating to come to this list for some kind of support in the sense
| that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga is mentioned, but
| their apperars to be very little of that and what I wrote was out of
| that frustation and I’m definately no where close to be done yet in
| regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse though, I should have
| bit my tounge…

This list is whatever people choose to turn it into.  I’m not the
babysitter.  Everyone is free to say anything they like … however, that
also applies to me.  When random, pseudoanonymous idiots, land here and
start dumping hate.  I’m really not required to say, “That’s very special,
thank you.”

There actually IS another ibogaine list here; sacrament.  It was created
for people who had done ibogaine and were trying to maintain.

But … nobody ever posts to it.  I think maybe 75 people signed up, said
a few things, and went back to sleep.

*THIS* list has — as of last week — passed just over 5,000 people.  The
same 75-100 have written 95% of the messages.  The rest … I dunno why
they’re here.  But this isn’t very unusual.  We’ve been running online
conferences since long before www. and port 80 existed; before @ signs
existed; and … this is pretty much the dynamic … it doesn’t seem to
make a difference whether the subject is music, hacking, drugs, or
“recovery.”

I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t write much to the list right now;
but there are always at least a handful of individuals here who have been
there, done that, maintained in a variety of ways; and consistently
provide advice that contains at least SOME useful elements.

Laters,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 26, 2004 at 2:15:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 06:45:09PM -0800], [deartheo@ziplip.com] wrote:

| but I am happy your doing well and
| am curious about how your after care went (besides 12 step programs,
| your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know regarding
| 12 step pushers).

I did ibogaine twice — to get unsprung — back-to-back, at St. Kitts.
Since that point in time I’ve dosed on various occasions for different
reasons.  After ibogaine — Take I — I lasted for roughly 35 minutes left
to my own devices.  As soon as the plane landed in San Juan, ’bout 35
minutes is the length of time it took me to find dope, cop, and restart my
relationship with it.

I was dumped into “treatment,” where I lasted for a little over 2 weeks
before getting thrown out.  Ostensibly for “using,” but the actual reasons
are much closer to my attitude about it when confronted with this fact.  I
didn’t nail myself to a cross and explain how highly super-sorry I am.
Because … I wasn’t.

My personal response to traditional “drug treatment,” post-ibogaine was
probably WORSE than the 50 times I’d been dumped into it pre-ibogaine.
Because, I wasn’t dopesick; I had a much lower level of desperation, and
being dosed with a very mild entheogen beforehand, did not in any way
change my resonance-check.  This … is … a buncha bullshit.  And,
nothing much has changed, except I have even greater awareness that none
of this is doing a fucking thing for me.

I blew out, basically stayed high for about 6 weeks while bouncing in and
out of “treatment” programs; redosed with ibogaine, and … that was
Halloween, 1999.  I’ve been clean this entire millennium, who woulda
thunk.

What I did after ibogaine II, was go to an ashram just outside of Bangkok.
Not to visit and hang out, but actually to live there.  I stayed for a
little over 3 months, and while I was there, I did a lot of LSD.

I had set, setting, and intent.  While most of the people where I was at
had no idea exactly why I left the planet — they were highly supportive
and kind to me.  “Well, basically, what you’re doing is wonderful.  And,
this is why we’re all sitting here in an ashram in the middle of nowhere.
Just, keep going!”

Had I taken these same actions within the United States, the outcome would
have been considerably different.  Instead of wrapping up a lifetime of
drug depednence, and being given the opportunity to reset, reintegrate,
and resurrect … it would have taken no more than 48 hours for some
helpful person to have me Baker-acted.  I would have synched back down to
planet Earth, tranked down, in a padded room somewhere, in 4-point
restraints.

Instead of completing the process of reintegration — which took a LOT of
processor time on the Cosmic CPU — it would have amounted to Yet Another
manifestation of my perpetual drug problems kicking up their shit.  The
End.  Here’s a stack of scripts, here’s your new home at a lockdown
in-patient facility, and if you behave, we’ll take the straitjacket off
and let you go smoke cigarettes on the playground.

While the odds that following this exact roadmap will work for anybody
else, are relatively low.  The overall truth remains.  If what you’re
doing is not working; has never worked; and you really do want to step out
of drug dependence … perhaps you need to figure out something else to
do.

To cop a cliche from those 12-step things, “A good definition of insanity,
is doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting different
results.”

Ya know what … that happens to be true.  I *really* wanted to cut loose
heroin.  I’d been in therapy since, basically, birth (well no, since Jr.
High School); I have never felt any resonance with a single fucking thing
anybody had to say to me while I was at the receiving end of, “drug
treatment.”  So, then, perhaps … I need to do something else.  Because
the truth is … my inability to get in tune with the dogma of some cult;
has exactly NOTHING to do with cutting loose junk.

What I actually learned from a lifetime of “treatment” and what I found
while accessing much greater spaces/places/truths while dosing with
entheogens … was EXACTLY THE SAME: as long as you keep digging in shit,
you’re gonna be covered in it.  Find something else to do.

What worked for me was connecting myself to the God of my understanding,
and HOLDING ON TO THAT CONNECTION.

So, anywaze, that’s me … I don’t know you, what you’ve written here:

| I’ll work you into my 9th step : )

Indicates that you’re working the steps.

Okay, so … when you do this and go to meetings; do you — at least SOME
OF THE TIME — come away filled with some greater level of strength, hope,
and/or understanding …?

If yes, well, that fucking rocks.  Keep doing it.

If no, well … have you tried to find a group that works for you and
people who are willing to accept your beliefs.  The 12-steps dig the
sponsor concept; do you have one?  If you don’t, well … is there ANYBODY
in the meetings you go to, that has anything you want?  If yes, then
FUCKING TALK TO THEM.

I don’t work the steps, per se, although much of what I do on a daily
basis, lights up and synchs with prolly at least half of the concepts the
12-steps are based upon — but, if they’re not working for you, have you
tried Rational Recovery (the not-for-profit version I b’lieve is called
SMART)?  Randy would know much more about the specifics of this paradigm
than I do, ‘cuz he actually used it post-ibogaine.

The only thing I would add to whatever paradigm you’re using — you can
name it anything you want, you can call it Step 13, Step 1,
WhateverTheFuck, amounts to: JUST KEEP GETTING BACK UP … because
eventually you WILL stand.  All you *must* do, is believe that it is
possible.

Success — at anything — just amounts to persistence, “Sorry, I’m very
hard-headed and I’m not listening to you explain my limitations to me.
I’m, just, gonna keep going.  Because I’m too stupid to give up.”

Other than all of that, much of what people have to say about “addiction,”
is — at best — pseudoscience.  “Once an addict, always an addict,” is
also a crock of shit.  The brain reorganizes itself, it’s called
neuroplasticity.  An extremely cool starting-point, is this thing here:

The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force.
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D

This is a very easy to read book, and gives you a lot of references to
read sideways, if you want to gain some greater level of understanding.

Anywaze, this is getting long, and I could write another thousand
paragraphs on this topic; wait, no, nevermind, I already have.

| You are probably correct, I appoligize to all involved…it’s very
| frustrating to come to this list for some kind of support in the sense
| that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga is mentioned, but
| their apperars to be very little of that and what I wrote was out of
| that frustation and I’m definately no where close to be done yet in
| regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse though, I should have
| bit my tounge…

This list is whatever people choose to turn it into.  I’m not the
babysitter.  Everyone is free to say anything they like … however, that
also applies to me.  When random, pseudoanonymous idiots, land here and
start dumping hate.  I’m really not required to say, “That’s very special,
thank you.”

There actually IS another ibogaine list here; sacrament.  It was created
for people who had done ibogaine and were trying to maintain.

But … nobody ever posts to it.  I think maybe 75 people signed up, said
a few things, and went back to sleep.

*THIS* list has — as of last week — passed just over 5,000 people.  The
same 75-100 have written 95% of the messages.  The rest … I dunno why
they’re here.  But this isn’t very unusual.  We’ve been running online
conferences since long before www. and port 80 existed; before @ signs
existed; and … this is pretty much the dynamic … it doesn’t seem to
make a difference whether the subject is music, hacking, drugs, or
“recovery.”

I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t write much to the list right now;
but there are always at least a handful of individuals here who have been
there, done that, maintained in a variety of ways; and consistently
provide advice that contains at least SOME useful elements.

Laters,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “dave” <dmurphy@airmail.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME
Date: February 26, 2004 at 2:17:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME OR MY EMAIL

THANKS VERY MUCH

———————————————————————
“Are you still wasting your time with spam?…
There is a solution!”

Protected by GIANT Company’s Spam Inspector
The most powerful anti-spam software available.
http://www.giantcompany.com

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 26, 2004 at 1:30:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Planteur! (I still love that name!) I clicked over to the site. Looks like Iboga is out of stock right now or unavailable and they will not ship to USA, Belgium or Switzerland. :>(

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Dana in the news
Date: February 26, 2004 at 1:11:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Get it while you can.  A Dana/CSI article in the NY Daily news including a
photograph.

http://www.nydailynews.com/02-26-2004/news/gossip/story/168041p-146864c.html

ORIGINAL ARTICLE
******************

Activist: ‘CSI’ is high on lie

Dana Beal CBS has provoked the wrath of a group of former junkies and their
supporters who are spitting mad about tonight’s episode of “CSI: Crime Scene
Investigation.”

Ex-cocaine and amphetamine user Dana Beal, who heads Cures Not Wars – which
promotes the legalization of a substance called Ibogaine as a cure for drug
addiction – told Lowdown that his 100-member group plans to stage a lunchtime
protest today in front of Black Rock, the CBS corporate headquarters in midtown.

A CBS spokesman declined to comment yesterday.

The problem, Beal said, is that the “CSI” episode, titled “Getting Off,” is
rife with misinformation about Ibogaine, which is widely used around the world
but illegal in the United States. “It has someone driving on Ibogaine, which
you can’t do!” Beal complained, noting that the drug induces a trancelike state.

“We would describe it as an addiction interrupter,” said Beal, whose group
has been campaigning for Food and Drug Administration approval. “When you are in
the throes of it you are in ‘sleep paralysis’ – you are awake but your body
is asleep. … When the Ibogaine effect wears off, you don’t go back into
withdrawal. Once you come down from it, you are normal.”

Even worse, Beal said, tonight’s show depicts a cultlike underground program
apparently based on Cures Not Wars. “The episode has someone selling Ibogaine.
But it’s absolutely forbidden. We could get investigated by the DEA. We don’t
need that headache right now!”

Personally, I haven’t heard the word Ibogaine since 1972, when Rolling Stone
correspondent Hunter S. Thompson famously accused Democratic presidential
candidate Edmund Muskie of abusing the drug – an alkaloid powder derived from the
root bark of an exotic African shrub.

Thompson, maybe under the influence of something himself, wrote that the
“Ibogaine Effect” was a “serious factor” in Muskie’s losing campaign. He claimed
that Muskie was “far gone in a bad Ibogaine frenzy.”

So far in the 2004 campaign, the only evidence of an “Ibogaine effect” came
during the Wisconsin primary race, when a Cures Not Wars activist in Madison
handed a brochure to Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of Democratic front-runner John
Kerry.

“She came back and got two more copies, and she said she was giving one to
John,” Beal said. Calls and E-mails to the Kerry campaign were not answered.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 12:55:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Iboga/ibogaine does not take away choice (free will), it won’t cure one of (non-drug-induced) stupidity Ibogaine does make that choice far easier, it may cure or nearly so drug cravings as well as the physical addiction, but addicts with nothing better to do go out and use anyway, no cravings and all. I believe ibogaine can clear the slate, heal if not cure much of the damage drug addiction has done, remove the the ingrained patterns. It comes down to how come people use after ibogaine if they are not cured, cause nothing can cure one from themselves (cept a bullet…) Ibogaine may cure people of some particular demons but I think the issue of addiction is too complex to have one definition of “cured” for a treatment. Can someone be over it, sure, absolutely (99+%). Addiction is a process that starts with like any other disease, a suseptable person and expure to sufficient quantity of the substance to cause a disease (dis-ease, a state of not being at ease). I guess ibogaine sort of reverses much of that, an addiction reverser perhaps, it also removes much of the whatever initially interested people to drugs.  Can someone be “cured” by using ibogaine AND doing everything else, to the extent that they will never be active “addicts” again, YES.  It is like ibogaine removes something so people can cure (if you want to use that word) themselves but ibogaine isn’t going to cure me of me against my will. I think when people use the word “cure”, that is what they expect, to be “cured” that it will never happen again – not if you repeat the thoughts and behavior it won’t.

So, here is my opinion why ibogaine is NOT a cure.

People who have successfully been treated with addiction CANNOT safely do the following;

GET HIGH LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE CAN.

For myself

I can’t and wouldn’t do a few “lines”, have a few drinks or smoke a few cigs. A non-addict, non-smoker could and they even if they enjoyed it, it won’t go anywhere.I likely could have a glass of wine or beer and one day may very well do that, but “drinking”, nope. Patrick, as “cured” as he is, it would be a real bad idea if he shot a few bags of dope…
Even though I doubt it is likely Patrick, myself or many successfully treated ibonaughts will (likely)  go anywhere very far, we just can’t safely fuck around with drugs, or at least certain drugs (drugs of choice). I  have to believe for my own safety that I am different than other folks. On the PLUS side I think I am less likely than the general population (3%) actually get “addicted” to pain meds. Perhaps we can immunize the entire population of the planet with iboga.

Maybe we need to establish something like they use for cancer, 3 or 5 year survival (relapse) rates to put a measurement on whatever someone means by the word “cured”.

It certainly is something different than what people normally call addiction, active or not.

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2004 4:42
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax
CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI

“Virtually all physiological systems are affected in opiate addiction. A
reproducible syndrome occurs when an opiate addict goes through withdrawal.
This syndrome includes yawning, lacrimation, piloerection, perspiration,
mydriasis, tremor, gooseflesh, restlessness, myalgia, anorexia, nausea,
vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, fever, hyperpnea, and hypertension.
When prolonged, the syndrome includes weight loss and, even after acute
withdrawal, symptoms subside, persistent symptoms such as sleep
disturbances, irritability, restlessness, and poor concentration which can
be present for months or years. Both acute and chronic tolerance are
physiological phenomena subserved by the central nervous system. However,
both acute and chronic tolerance may also be influenced by environmental
variables, such as setting, conditioning, and learning.”

If Iboga Isn’t “a cure” how come most of those symptops ,sometimes all, do
not show ?

Also, how come the need to smoke tobbaco left the person? He could smoke,
He didn’t come for treating his smoking habit, het ried one ciggaret and
didn’t feel that need anymore.

How come my patient Liz. Went working after the treatment 16 hours a day ,
standing up.she wouldn’t be able to if not for this treatment, she did try
Other treatments before and that is what she thinks.

Is Methadone a Cure? Some people would say it is .

S.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Iboga

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:12:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2004 4:42
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax
CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI

“Virtually all physiological systems are affected in opiate addiction. A
reproducible syndrome occurs when an opiate addict goes through withdrawal.
This syndrome includes yawning, lacrimation, piloerection, perspiration,
mydriasis, tremor, gooseflesh, restlessness, myalgia, anorexia, nausea,
vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, fever, hyperpnea, and hypertension.
When prolonged, the syndrome includes weight loss and, even after acute
withdrawal, symptoms subside, persistent symptoms such as sleep
disturbances, irritability, restlessness, and poor concentration which can
be present for months or years. Both acute and chronic tolerance are
physiological phenomena subserved by the central nervous system. However,
both acute and chronic tolerance may also be influenced by environmental
variables, such as setting, conditioning, and learning.”

If Iboga Isn’t “a cure” how come most of those symptops ,sometimes all, do
not show ?

Also, how come the need to smoke tobbaco left the person?  He could smoke,
He didn’t come for treating his smoking habit, het ried one ciggaret and
didn’t feel that need anymore.

How come my patient Liz. Went working after the treatment 16 hours a day ,
standing up.she wouldn’t be able to if not for this treatment, she did try
Other treatments before and that is what she thinks.

Is Methadone a Cure? Some people would say it is .

S.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 26, 2004 at 7:12:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>

(snip)
or you can go to a street corner and use the net for 25 centavos por
5 minuto(s).

n

hey N, show some respect, that ain’t no way to talk about your sister’s
going rates…

A-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 26, 2004 at 7:09:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,

You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
(And I read the french and english versions)

I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page

http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique

or here in English

http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp

the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
and the ‘more info’ is a 404…

Personally I find this site dubious.

Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?

Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
info…

Adam

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
anything
but the opening page.  Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] props
Date: February 26, 2004 at 7:40:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My own favorite recently-found quote from elsewhere:

“The mirror is not you. The mirror is you looking at yourself.”
George Balanchine

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] props
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:31:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

one of my favorite quotes

by John Archibald Wheeler (anyone with a middle name like that has got to be kewl):

to my mind
there must be
at the bottom of it all
not an equation
but an utterly simple idea

and to me
that idea
when we finally discover it
will be so compelling
so inevitable
that we will say to one another
‘oh, how beautiful.
how could it have been otherwise?’

…………….

hey:: patrik, steve, marc, jason, howard, preston, sara, brett, callie and ALL of you crazee kidz out there, all deserve to know that you rock and you are all loved…


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:04:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Um, well actually;
Ibogaine could potentially be a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI), though in seeking information about whether it actually is an MAOI, I didn’t find much…anyone got the goods on this?
Monoamine oxidase is found in the gastrointestinal tract and inactivates Tyramine, found in many foods in different quantities.
It is best to assume that Ibogaine IS an MAO inhibitor and take any necessary precautions. This means abstaining from foods at least 24 hours beforehand that may contain Tyramine

for more detailed info check out  the vaults of Erowid : http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois_info2.shtml
& I don’t think MAOI’s have anything to do with liver enzymes either but I could be misinformed…
Cheers,
Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: Marc Scott Emery 
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:02:56 -0800
To: ‘Brett Calabrese’ 
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
The foods that are taken in should not be MAO inhibitors, that could cause a liver malfunction, especially to an addict who has Hepatitus C. I suspect trouble there. The liver might have rejected the tyrine (the dangerous amino acid that ibogaine and many substances render the liver unable to process for 24 to 48 hours after) that is in cheeses, pungents, many foods and failed, causing vomit, regurgitation.

What happened to the guide who administered the dosage? That probably was awful for that person.

It’s a lesson for other ibogaine administrators to be careful of the foods chosen to give to the recovering patient.(Also, do not treat patients with HEP C damage to the liver in excess, this can be done by reading the blood tests accurately – AND MAKE SURE THESE BLOOD TESTS ARE DONE BEFORE TREATMENT.) we have treated many patients with Hep C, but the liver has to be functioning fully.

Thanks for that information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—–Original Message—–
From: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:47 PM
To: marc@cannabisculture.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up? Off list

Marc,

There were other factors. What I was getting was this guy was in real bad shape, had bad hep C (also included as part of the cause of death), inexperience on the guide – being her first, likely he ate too much food, wasn’t watched close enough. I got the feeling that he was at the edge. Perhaps he would have done better with 3-4gm of Indra and followed with smaller doses over the next few days, watched closer, he couldn’t have done worse.. It goes in the active addict catagory, they don’t exactly read the manual or follow instructions very well.  There will be more.

The above is just my feeling of the events as I heard them, like it was a last ditch event to cure an out of control addiction, and he lost.

I too am interested in what they ate. Some people want to chomp down on  all kinds of garbage, candy, cheezeburgers… more solid foods and they shouldn’t till they take soft food first (fruit, oatmeal, soup…) and my favorite watermelon.

Be well,

Brett

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Was J supervised at the time? Seems like an unusual reaction as by 38
hours, it’s good to have a bit of food. What kind of food was it, do you
know?
When patients go more than 72 hours without food, the glucose levels
drop and a person can fall into unconsciousness.

Thanks for the information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nicks22@onetel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:33 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Hi Marc,

Must be a pretty old newspaper. J died back in Jan 2000 if I recall
correctly, and the inquest was a year later. They put the cause of death
down to “iboga extract, fatal reaction” – J died through choking on his
vomit just after eating his first meal after the treatment. He’d taken
a! round 6g of Indra iboga extract about 38 hours before.

Because of the death the MCA put Tabernanthe iboga on a list of herbal
preparations they are seeking to control further, but as far as I know
this
hasn’t happened yet, and isn’t likely to for a while. Whether ibogaine
itself will be affected is not clear.

IMO, the main thing to be learned from the tragic event is the need for
constant vigilance of the client throughout the whole treatment,
bathroom
visits included.

all the best

Nick


—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:55 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?


> Who was the treatment provider in the UK who screwed up?
>
> Marc Emery
> Iboga Therapy House
>
> Re:
> PSYCHEDELIC ADDICTION TREATMENT FACES BAN
> AFTER HEROIN USER’S DEATH
>
> by Max Daly
>
> A natural psychoactive drug used to treat heroin, methadone, cocaine
and
> alcohol addiction faces a UK ban depsite clinical research showing it
> has
> reduced deadly cravings in scores of patients.
>
> Extracted from the root bark of an African plant, ibogaine is used by
> indigenous people to combat fatigue and in spiritual rituals and was
> first
> used
> to treat drug addicts in America in the 1960s.
>
> The most comprehensive study into ibogaine to date is now being
carried
> out
> with 32 heroin addicts on the Caribbean island of St Kitts. Conducted
by
> neurology expert Dr Deborah Mash from Miami University, the research
has
> so
> far
> revealed the drug “has significantly reduced craving for opiates” for
> all
> patie nts.
>
> But an inquest resuming this week into the death of a 40-year-old
> hepatitus
> C-infected heroin addict, who died in London early last year, could
> result in
> the drug being banned. Ibogaine, taken by the man 40 hours before his
> death,
> was probably to blame, according to doctors.
>
> The pathologist’s report stated the rare drug was “by far the most
> likely
> explanation” for his death. During the initial stages of the inquest -
> adjourned last month pending data on the effect of ibogaine from Dr
Mash
> – the
> coroner said the drug should be banned if it is deemed to be the cause
> of
> death.
>
> The coroner’s verdict could be a world-first. Records show three
people
> have
> died after taking ibogaine, according to Dr Kenneth Alper, associate
> professor
> of neurology and psychiatry at the New York School of Med icine. Yet in
> each
> case, says Alper, ibogaine was not name! d as cause of death.
>
> Supporters of ibogaine point out current government-funded addiction
> treatments
> are far from safe. Heroin addicts are prescribed methadone – itself
> highly
> addictive and implicated in the deaths of more than 200 people in the
UK
> each
> year.
>
> With ibogaine, the drug works by ‘resetting’ brain functions which
> relate to
> addiction, enabling patients to avoid powerful withdrawal symptoms -
the
> major
> barrier to giving up.
>
> Dr Mash, who admits the drug should only be taken under medical
> supervision,
> said ibogaine’s potential as a safer and more effective alternative to
> present
> treatments is suffering from a lack of support from authorities in the
> US and
> Europe. “Addicts desperate for an effective treatment will try to get
> help in
> any way possible,” she said.
>
> ! “The lack of government-sanctioned studies has forced this effective
> treatment
> into underground settings. Many accepted treatments for opiate
> detoxification
> have led to deaths. With medical supervision, ibogaine is a safe
drug.”
>
> A series of informal trials among more than 300 addicts in Denmark,
> Holland,
> the Czech Republic and the Caribbean over 10 years produced similar
> findings.
> Ibogaine is legal in Britain but is classified as an ‘unlicensed
> experimental
> medicine’. It is a restricted substance in the US, Switzerland, Sweden
> and
> Belgium.
>
> Shane Collins, of the Green Party drugs group said: “This drug is a
> plant
> medicine which requires serious research. It offers the potential of
> treating
> one of the greater ills of society.”
>> –
> Phil Stovell
> South Hampshire, UK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



/]=———————————————————————
=[\ 
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/



/]=———————————————————————=[\ 
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.


_______________________________________________ 
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net 
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year! Powered by Outblaze /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 26, 2004 at 1:58:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it loads for me. they have the site in the freedom language (french) and
english. OI

it seems to load and work, if it doesnt for you give a yell and ill paste
it.  or you can go to a street corner and use the net for 25 centavos por
5 minuto(s).

n

In a message dated 2/26/04 2:52:19 AM, iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr writes:

<< A new website providing Iboga and many other plants from the african

rainforest, They can provide very large amount.

www.vegetaux.com

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
anything
but the opening page.  Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] pain-management
Date: February 26, 2004 at 1:47:06 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CANNABIS IN THE CURRICULUM


USC Med School Takes The Lead


”Any pain-management training that does not have information about cannabis 
is committing malpractice.” -Claudia Jensen, MD


On Feb. 13 students and faculty from the University of Southern California 
Keck School of Medicine put on a half-day program devoted to the clinical 
uses of cannabis and the relevant pharmacology. Some 30 first- and 
second-year med students attended the history-making event in McKibben 
Hall, which was organized by Rolando Tringale, a second-year med student, 
and Claudia Jensen, MD, a Ventura pediatrician who is an Instructor in the 
Department of Family Medicine.


Jensen teaches “Introduction to Clinical Medicine,” in which first-year 
students learn how to take a patient’s history and conduct a physical exam. 
Since the Fall semester of 2001 Jensen has spent a full day in the ICM 
class talking about cannabis and bringing in patients for students to 
interview. “They’re open-minded and well educated,” she says of her 
students. “And they actually go on to teach their colleagues the truth 
about cannabis. That’s why Rolando wanted to do this 
presentation.” (Tringale had taken Jensen’s ICM class last year.)


The Feb. 13 program started with first-person accounts from patients. 
Jensen had invited Ishmael Gayes, nicknamed Eddie Green, “a paraplegic -a 
very beautiful, intelligent, spiritual black man who was shot in the back 
over a woman when he was 17;” chronic pain patient Lisa Cordova Schwarz; 
and glaucoma patient Jim Carberry. Bill Britt, an activist from Long Beach 
who has post-polio syndrome and epilepsy, also described his use of cannabis.


Joseph Miller, PhD, associate professor of Cell and Neurobiology, discussed 
the pharmacology and biochemistry of the body’s own cannabinoid receptor 
system, which is activated by THC and other compounds in the plant. 
Miller’s research has been funded over the years by the National Institute 
on Drug Abuse. “He’s not a medical marijuana protagonist,” says Jensen, 
”he’s not in the movement. He’s just an honest man with a balanced, 
truthful perspective about drugs who was willing to be a speaker.”


Psychology professor Mitch Earleywine, PhD, discussed the question of 
safety. Earleywine, the author of Understanding Marijuana (Oxford, 2002), 
said that medical users could minimize negative consequences by vaporizing 
instead of smoking. Earleywine also advocates “keeping dosage at a level 
that relieves symptoms but doesn’t create any impairment” and “monitoring 
for any signs of craving that might indicate tolerance or withdrawal.” 
Earleywine has found that “the people who run into dependence problems with 
cannabis are the ones who are drinking a lot of alcohol.” He recommends 
that medical cannabis users avoid alcohol consumption.


Attorney William Logan gave a talk entitled “Medicine Dances With 
Lawyers,”explaining Prop 215 -California’s Health & Safety Code Section 
11362.5- and recounting the court rulings that affect its implementation.


Jensen’s presentation was a version of what she teaches the first-year 
students -“How do you tailor a history and physical to a medical marijuana 
patient?… What dose and route of administration to use?… What strain to 
use?” She also discussed “the advantages and disadvantages of having 
medical marijuana patients in your practice.” C-Notes will devote a column 
in the near future to her observations.


Jensen had also invited -after getting administrative approval to do so- 
Richard David, proprietor of the USA Hemp Museum, who brought samples of 
hash, hash oil and other cannabis-based products, as well as some plant 
strains (in jars), providing, for some of the students, a first exposure to 
the once-prohibited herb


”How many of you use marijuana?” Jensen had asked. She says, “Probably 
seven students raised their hands. I told them ‘I am very proud of you 
having the courage and the integrity to tell the truth, because that’s what 
this conference is about.'” Jensen also asked how many had or knew somebody 
who had a condition treatable by cannabis. About 90% raised their hands.


Jensen says that the USC administration has been supportive of her efforts 
to introduce cannabis into the curriculum. Althea Alexander, Clinical 
Instructor for Educational Affairs, attended the Feb. 13 conference and 
expressed gratitude to the patients who took part. Alexander regretted that 
the event had been scheduled for the getaway day of President’s Day 
week-end; there would have been a much heavier turnout, she said, on an 
ordinary Friday.


Jensen hopes that next year the conference will be held in October, “when 
the students are freshest,” and that it will be a requirement. (This year’s 
was not offered for credit.) Jensen had an insight about “elective” 
classes when she was in med school at the start of the 1980s. “I took an 
elective on ‘Sexual Desensitization’ and the only students who went to it 
were the students who were comfortable with sexuality. All of the really 
messed-up, up-tight people avoided it. So I don’t think cannabis should be 
an elective. I think it should be required training.”


Jensen has also given thought to developing a continuing medical education 
program for physicians, none of whom learned a thing about cannabis in 
medical school. (Doctors are obligated to earn a certain number of CME 
credits annually.) She has proposed to the administration that USC offer a 
CME course on cannabis. Professor of Clinical Instruction Alan Abbott told 
her he was amenable and would look into possible funding. Wouldn’t such a 
course pay for itself -or make money for the sponsor- Jensen was asked? 
”Doctors are just scared of marijuana,” she says. In 2000 she attended a 
conference at UC San Francisco organized by Geoffrey Guy, MD, of GW 
Pharmaceuticals. “It was poorly attended,” she recalls.


Jensen thinks her colleagues in the medical profession will take steps to 
educate themselves on the subject of cannabis only when they are obligated 
to. And she has a strategy to obligate them. “The Medical Board of 
California has dictated that physicians have to take eight hours in pain 
management in order to maintain their licensure. My position is that any 
pain management presentation that any physician takes is inadequate if it 
does not include discussion about cannabis and cannabis compounds. The 
Medical Board should take the position that cannabis teaching needs to be 
integrated into those pain management sessions that physicians are already 
required by law to attend.”


Jensen is a pediatrician who practices in Ventura. She has a special 
interest in cognitive function and development. She branched into treating 
adults as a result of her interest in cannabis. She says that with every 
patient she tries to figure out “the habits that are keeping them sick.”


Jensen spends an hour seeing each new patient. She learned recently that 
she is under investigation by the Medical Board for allegedly providing 
substandard care to three ADHD patients (whose cannabis use she approved).
——————–

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 12:04:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

everyone does drugs, even the most die-hard anti-druggie.

christopher
cadden

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS:
NO AIRPLAY WI

I suppose if someone reach(ed/es) under their chair and hand(ed/s) me a
jar
full of ibogaine, I’d/ll have to take that plunge finally.
Myself anyway, even though you aren’t actually addressing me.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax
CBS:
NO AIRPLAY WI

Bro I agree with everything you wrote here 🙂

I don’t know how copyright works, I see it on every page of Mindvox but
this is a list that doesn’t mention it. I don’t know anything about law
or fair use I think the author owns their own message unless it’s said
otherwise? I have no idea what I’m talking about here. Marc you publish
magazines, what do you say?

Dana taking ibogaine is always a funny one. That was the best part of
the San Fran ibogaine conference the panel at the end where Dana is
talking
about ibogaine, it’s on camera and being taped and Patrick reaches under
the table and holds up a jar of what was ounces of ibogaine and hands
it to Dana saying shut up and eat it. That was priceless I loved that
moment, Dr. Mash is laughing so hard she’s falling out of her chair and
the panel went crazy. I think Steve that a lot of people wonder that
very same thing.

Patrick besides all your other work, aren’t you high priest in sacrament
of transition with Marko? How can the two of you let Dana be a member
of your church if he hasn’t even taken the sacrament? 😉 Come on Dana!

I think Dana’s purpose for sending your letter everywhere in the world
is the same purpose he always has which is making as many people as he
can take notice. If it has a good result I don’t know.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:41:37 -0800 Steven Anker
<stevenanker@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dana et al&#133;

I was always under the impression that the ibogaine list was not
really
public property. The mind-vox site states that the materials contained
in
the site are copyrighted. In any case I wish you would have asked
permission
to distribute something that was written in the spur of the moment
and in a
flash of anger.  The descriptions of the CSI show upset me, in
particular

the description of iboga as a cult. I deeply regret saying some very
mean
things. Had you asked, I would have said no, or at least clarified
my
thoughts. In this world manners are important, the polite thing
to do would
have been to ask. Frankly, what I wrote was very rude and incredibly
bad
manners on my part. Something I would never have written if I had
thought
would have been viewed outside of the site. It should not have been
written
in any-case. It was off the cuff and my own form of very bad humor
and a
response to some other angry postings.

I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the
best hope
for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak.
I have had
friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits
through
methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting

their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.

Everyone swears their way is the best and only way. We all can&#146;t
be right,
eh? Research and support for all treatment modalities should be
encouraged.
One of the reasons the drug war keeps going is that treatment
modalities
are
so limited. I&#146;ve read statistics that a person has the best chance
of
staying clean if arrested, a wake-up call. Does that mean we should
push for
harsher sentences for addicts? Of course not, more treatment options
dude!

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease
it&#146;s
handy to have a few treatment options available. For me the 12 steps
did not
work (though I believe there are many good qualities in the fellowship)

basically because I find the concept of God very complicated and
find it
impossible to turn my life and my will over to something I do not

understand.  For me ibogaine was a helpful tool in treating my
addictions,

as has exercise, proper nutrition, being in a great relationship
and not
hanging around people using drugs. I have also witnessed too many
addicts
use right after taking ibogaine to know that ibogaine is not a
&#145;cure.&#146;
They
usually appreciate the great rush of doing heroin again after a
few days
clean, though.

We can not judge the CSI program site-unseen. Think about it this
way, many
addicts will hear about ibogaine and if it sounds like it might
help them
they will research further. No doubt there will be a few less addicts
as a
result of the show. Media feeds on itself and undoubtedly more news
stories
will follow. I do trust that the writer, Jerry Stahl, treated the
root with
respect and that the science will be right. I also have faith that
Americans
are smart enough to realize that they are watching fiction. The
image of a
dead clown seems wonderful. I also know Jerry has a desire to help
addicts
and has helped me in staying off heroin.

I do not believe it is good to make ibogaine appear better by shit-
talking
another treatment, something I did and regret. This is not how I
feel, to
each his own and people are different&#133; May all addicts be
successful
in
their journey to conquer the dark master of addiction.  It is very
silly for
addicts to be fighting among themselves.

I know you have already distributed the offensive e-mail widely
and are
planning on disseminating the &#145;incriminating e-mail&#146; at your
rally.
It is
not an accurate description on my thoughts regarding addiction,
AA or Jerry
Stahl. I have absolutely no wish for Jerry or anyone else ever to
relapse if
that is what they want in life. I deeply hope you do not distribute
that
e-mail any further. I fail to see how it is helpful.

More so than wishing for Jerry to taste the root, I sincerely hope
you take
ibogaine in more than a sub-intoxication dose for pep before giving
a
speech. I know you are not a junky. Perhaps you may find ibogaine
helpful
for more than just removing your cyst. It can be a therapeutic and
spiritual
experience and may benefit you in other ways. I find it very odd
that such
an ardent supporter of ibogaine has not tried it. You may also find
it
beneficial to be able help more addicts if you have a personal
experience

with the root. Aren&#146;t curious to gain insight into your theory
that
ibogaine
is the holy Eucharist given to Christ on the cross?

Perhaps the best way for us to succeed in presenting ibogaine for
the useful
medicine it is for some people, is to lead through a positive example.

I get the sense from both reading your e-mails and our conversation
that
this is as much about keeping 9 Bleaker St. going as it promoting
ibogaine
in a positive light. It would be a sad day if yippies loose their

headquarters, though sometimes unwanted change can be good.

As Rodney King put it so very eloquently &#147;Why can&#146;t we all
just
get along?&#148;

I wish you continued success in helping addicts.

The local CBS affiliate KCBS has done an ibogaine piece as I mentioned.
I do
not have a link or know if it is on the web which you asked for.
All major
news organizations know about ibogaine, it&#146;s their choice whether
to cover
it or not, should we not be glad that more people will find out
about
ibogaine? Perhaps we may owe a debt of gratitude to Jerry for bringing
the
story to the greater public.

Protesting in front of CBS, before seeing the piece reminds me
religious

zealots protesting some film or show they have never watched.

Best,
Steve Anker

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30  AM Thurs;
Fax CBS: NO
AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0500

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS,
NOT IN COP
SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca
and
frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting
down 9
Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East
Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373
South Park
Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine

information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of
an entire
Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz
Kerry
actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back
and got
more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look
at the
science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production,

and
is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for

President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident

distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script,

please
fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make
Ibogaine
available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we
are deeply
concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing
this
medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and
convict who
now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force
addicts
to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell
that he
became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming

spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar

problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed
by CBS,
Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you
should
treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above
information
comes from an early draft of the script and details may change
before the
episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news
story to
give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine.
The
following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click
here.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 25, 2004 at 11:54:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I suppose if someone reach(ed/es) under their chair and hand(ed/s) me a jar
full of ibogaine, I’d/ll have to take that plunge finally.
Myself anyway, even though you aren’t actually addressing me.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:58 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS:
NO AIRPLAY WI

Bro I agree with everything you wrote here 🙂

I don’t know how copyright works, I see it on every page of Mindvox but
this is a list that doesn’t mention it. I don’t know anything about law
or fair use I think the author owns their own message unless it’s said
otherwise? I have no idea what I’m talking about here. Marc you publish
magazines, what do you say?

Dana taking ibogaine is always a funny one. That was the best part of
the San Fran ibogaine conference the panel at the end where Dana is
talking
about ibogaine, it’s on camera and being taped and Patrick reaches under
the table and holds up a jar of what was ounces of ibogaine and hands
it to Dana saying shut up and eat it. That was priceless I loved that
moment, Dr. Mash is laughing so hard she’s falling out of her chair and
the panel went crazy. I think Steve that a lot of people wonder that
very same thing.

Patrick besides all your other work, aren’t you high priest in sacrament
of transition with Marko? How can the two of you let Dana be a member
of your church if he hasn’t even taken the sacrament? 😉 Come on Dana!

I think Dana’s purpose for sending your letter everywhere in the world
is the same purpose he always has which is making as many people as he
can take notice. If it has a good result I don’t know.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:41:37 -0800 Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dana et al&#133;

I was always under the impression that the ibogaine list was not
really
public property. The mind-vox site states that the materials contained
in
the site are copyrighted. In any case I wish you would have asked
permission
to distribute something that was written in the spur of the moment
and in a
flash of anger.  The descriptions of the CSI show upset me, in particular

the description of iboga as a cult. I deeply regret saying some very
mean
things. Had you asked, I would have said no, or at least clarified
my
thoughts. In this world manners are important, the polite thing
to do would
have been to ask. Frankly, what I wrote was very rude and incredibly
bad
manners on my part. Something I would never have written if I had
thought
would have been viewed outside of the site. It should not have been
written
in any-case. It was off the cuff and my own form of very bad humor
and a
response to some other angry postings.

I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the
best hope
for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak.
I have had
friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits
through
methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting

their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.

Everyone swears their way is the best and only way. We all can&#146;t
be right,
eh? Research and support for all treatment modalities should be
encouraged.
One of the reasons the drug war keeps going is that treatment modalities
are
so limited. I&#146;ve read statistics that a person has the best chance
of
staying clean if arrested, a wake-up call. Does that mean we should
push for
harsher sentences for addicts? Of course not, more treatment options
dude!

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease
it&#146;s
handy to have a few treatment options available. For me the 12 steps
did not
work (though I believe there are many good qualities in the fellowship)

basically because I find the concept of God very complicated and
find it
impossible to turn my life and my will over to something I do not

understand.  For me ibogaine was a helpful tool in treating my
addictions,

as has exercise, proper nutrition, being in a great relationship
and not
hanging around people using drugs. I have also witnessed too many
addicts
use right after taking ibogaine to know that ibogaine is not a
&#145;cure.&#146;
They
usually appreciate the great rush of doing heroin again after a
few days
clean, though.

We can not judge the CSI program site-unseen. Think about it this
way, many
addicts will hear about ibogaine and if it sounds like it might
help them
they will research further. No doubt there will be a few less addicts
as a
result of the show. Media feeds on itself and undoubtedly more news
stories
will follow. I do trust that the writer, Jerry Stahl, treated the
root with
respect and that the science will be right. I also have faith that
Americans
are smart enough to realize that they are watching fiction. The
image of a
dead clown seems wonderful. I also know Jerry has a desire to help
addicts
and has helped me in staying off heroin.

I do not believe it is good to make ibogaine appear better by shit-
talking
another treatment, something I did and regret. This is not how I
feel, to
each his own and people are different&#133; May all addicts be successful
in
their journey to conquer the dark master of addiction.  It is very
silly for
addicts to be fighting among themselves.

I know you have already distributed the offensive e-mail widely
and are
planning on disseminating the &#145;incriminating e-mail&#146; at your
rally.
It is
not an accurate description on my thoughts regarding addiction,
AA or Jerry
Stahl. I have absolutely no wish for Jerry or anyone else ever to
relapse if
that is what they want in life. I deeply hope you do not distribute
that
e-mail any further. I fail to see how it is helpful.

More so than wishing for Jerry to taste the root, I sincerely hope
you take
ibogaine in more than a sub-intoxication dose for pep before giving
a
speech. I know you are not a junky. Perhaps you may find ibogaine
helpful
for more than just removing your cyst. It can be a therapeutic and
spiritual
experience and may benefit you in other ways. I find it very odd
that such
an ardent supporter of ibogaine has not tried it. You may also find
it
beneficial to be able help more addicts if you have a personal experience

with the root. Aren&#146;t curious to gain insight into your theory that
ibogaine
is the holy Eucharist given to Christ on the cross?

Perhaps the best way for us to succeed in presenting ibogaine for
the useful
medicine it is for some people, is to lead through a positive example.

I get the sense from both reading your e-mails and our conversation
that
this is as much about keeping 9 Bleaker St. going as it promoting
ibogaine
in a positive light. It would be a sad day if yippies loose their

headquarters, though sometimes unwanted change can be good.

As Rodney King put it so very eloquently &#147;Why can&#146;t we all just
get along?&#148;

I wish you continued success in helping addicts.

The local CBS affiliate KCBS has done an ibogaine piece as I mentioned.
I do
not have a link or know if it is on the web which you asked for.
All major
news organizations know about ibogaine, it&#146;s their choice whether
to cover
it or not, should we not be glad that more people will find out
about
ibogaine? Perhaps we may owe a debt of gratitude to Jerry for bringing
the
story to the greater public.

Protesting in front of CBS, before seeing the piece reminds me religious

zealots protesting some film or show they have never watched.

Best,
Steve Anker

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30  AM Thurs;
Fax CBS: NO
AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0500

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS,
NOT IN COP
SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca
and
frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting
down 9
Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East
Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373
South Park
Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine

information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of
an entire
Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz
Kerry
actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back
and got
more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look
at the
science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production,

and
is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for

President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident

distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script,

please
fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make
Ibogaine
available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we
are deeply
concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing
this
medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and
convict who
now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force
addicts
to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell
that he
became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming

spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar

problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed
by CBS,
Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you
should
treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above
information
comes from an early draft of the script and details may change
before the
episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news
story to
give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine.
The
following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click
here.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 25, 2004 at 11:36:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh, otherwise Steven, I really like your note here, and fully agree with the
idea that all treatment modalities must be available if we really are after
making people’s lives better, and would be a major step out from under our
current fearful, hateful way of treating the use and users of drugs.
Well said.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:41 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS:
NO AIRPLAY WI

Dana et al.

I was always under the impression that the ibogaine list was not really
public property. The mind-vox site states that the materials contained in
the site are copyrighted. In any case I wish you would have asked
permission
to distribute something that was written in the spur of the moment and in
a
flash of anger.  The descriptions of the CSI show upset me, in particular
the description of iboga as a cult. I deeply regret saying some very mean
things. Had you asked, I would have said no, or at least clarified my
thoughts. In this world manners are important, the polite thing to do
would
have been to ask. Frankly, what I wrote was very rude and incredibly bad
manners on my part. Something I would never have written if I had thought
would have been viewed outside of the site. It should not have been
written
in any-case. It was off the cuff and my own form of very bad humor and a
response to some other angry postings.

I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the best hope
for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak. I have had
friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits
through
methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting
their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.
Everyone swears their way is the best and only way. We all can’t be right,
eh? Research and support for all treatment modalities should be
encouraged.
One of the reasons the drug war keeps going is that treatment modalities
are
so limited. I’ve read statistics that a person has the best chance of
staying clean if arrested, a wake-up call. Does that mean we should push
for
harsher sentences for addicts? Of course not, more treatment options dude!

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease it’s
handy to have a few treatment options available. For me the 12 steps did
not
work (though I believe there are many good qualities in the fellowship)
basically because I find the concept of God very complicated and find it
impossible to turn my life and my will over to something I do not
understand.  For me ibogaine was a helpful tool in treating my addictions,
as has exercise, proper nutrition, being in a great relationship and not
hanging around people using drugs. I have also witnessed too many addicts
use right after taking ibogaine to know that ibogaine is not a ‘cure.’
They
usually appreciate the great rush of doing heroin again after a few days
clean, though.

We can not judge the CSI program site-unseen. Think about it this way,
many
addicts will hear about ibogaine and if it sounds like it might help them
they will research further. No doubt there will be a few less addicts as a
result of the show. Media feeds on itself and undoubtedly more news
stories
will follow. I do trust that the writer, Jerry Stahl, treated the root
with
respect and that the science will be right. I also have faith that
Americans
are smart enough to realize that they are watching fiction. The image of a
dead clown seems wonderful. I also know Jerry has a desire to help addicts
and has helped me in staying off heroin.

I do not believe it is good to make ibogaine appear better by shit-talking
another treatment, something I did and regret. This is not how I feel, to
each his own and people are different. May all addicts be successful in
their journey to conquer the dark master of addiction.  It is very silly
for
addicts to be fighting among themselves.

I know you have already distributed the offensive e-mail widely and are
planning on disseminating the ‘incriminating e-mail’ at your rally. It is
not an accurate description on my thoughts regarding addiction, AA or
Jerry
Stahl. I have absolutely no wish for Jerry or anyone else ever to relapse
if
that is what they want in life. I deeply hope you do not distribute that
e-mail any further. I fail to see how it is helpful.

More so than wishing for Jerry to taste the root, I sincerely hope you
take
ibogaine in more than a sub-intoxication dose for pep before giving a
speech. I know you are not a junky. Perhaps you may find ibogaine helpful
for more than just removing your cyst. It can be a therapeutic and
spiritual
experience and may benefit you in other ways. I find it very odd that such
an ardent supporter of ibogaine has not tried it. You may also find it
beneficial to be able help more addicts if you have a personal experience
with the root. Aren’t curious to gain insight into your theory that
ibogaine
is the holy Eucharist given to Christ on the cross?

Perhaps the best way for us to succeed in presenting ibogaine for the
useful
medicine it is for some people, is to lead through a positive example.

I get the sense from both reading your e-mails and our conversation that
this is as much about keeping 9 Bleaker St. going as it promoting ibogaine
in a positive light. It would be a sad day if yippies loose their
headquarters, though sometimes unwanted change can be good.

As Rodney King put it so very eloquently “Why can’t we all just get
along?”

I wish you continued success in helping addicts.

The local CBS affiliate KCBS has done an ibogaine piece as I mentioned. I
do
not have a link or know if it is on the web which you asked for. All major
news organizations know about ibogaine, it’s their choice whether to cover
it or not, should we not be glad that more people will find out about
ibogaine? Perhaps we may owe a debt of gratitude to Jerry for bringing the
story to the greater public.

Protesting in front of CBS, before seeing the piece reminds me religious
zealots protesting some film or show they have never watched.

Best,
Steve Anker

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30  AM Thurs; Fax CBS:
NO
AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0500

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS, NOT IN
COP
SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca and
frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting down 9
Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373 South
Park
Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine
information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of an entire
Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz Kerry
actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back and got
more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look at the
science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production,
and
is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for
President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident
distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script,
please
fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make Ibogaine
available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we are
deeply
concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing this
medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and convict
who
now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force
addicts
to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell that he
became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming
spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar
problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by CBS,
Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you should
treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above
information
comes from an early draft of the script and details may change before the
episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news story to
give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine. The
following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 25, 2004 at 11:33:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease it’s
handy to have a few treatment options available.<

Is the use of drugs really classifiable as a disease? Just because some
people refuse to stop using their drugs of choice no matter how harshly the
law and the rest of society treats them? Why must that be considered a
disease?
I suppose I can upon reflection see the point when considering some of
the self-damage that addicts can do to themselves using some drugs in some
ways. Some amount of the way that some addicts use their drugs does lead me
to think when seeing, or hell experiencing, disease- else why the hell would
I/they keep doing it over and over?
Hmmm.
Or, sigh.
Or something anyway.
I still hesitate in the end to go with the disease model entirely,
partly because too often disease is blasted with radiation or sliced out
with a scalple. All the insistance of making people who want to use drugs to
whatever degree they do still seems to me no matter what we call it to be
refusing to accept the people they really are, they way they are possibly
even hardwired to be by whatever it is that decided life was a good idea
way, way, way back when. Mightn’t it be possible that some of us were meant
to use drugs?
Maybe?
I mean, when I think about it, most people hear about ibogaine and I
think are not overly enthusiastic about the idea of giving out (currently)
illegal hallucinogenic plants to “cure” or combat (currently) illegal drug
addiction. It is a drug after all.

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 10:41 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS:
NO AIRPLAY WI

Dana et al.

I was always under the impression that the ibogaine list was not really
public property. The mind-vox site states that the materials contained in
the site are copyrighted. In any case I wish you would have asked
permission
to distribute something that was written in the spur of the moment and in
a
flash of anger.  The descriptions of the CSI show upset me, in particular
the description of iboga as a cult. I deeply regret saying some very mean
things. Had you asked, I would have said no, or at least clarified my
thoughts. In this world manners are important, the polite thing to do
would
have been to ask. Frankly, what I wrote was very rude and incredibly bad
manners on my part. Something I would never have written if I had thought
would have been viewed outside of the site. It should not have been
written
in any-case. It was off the cuff and my own form of very bad humor and a
response to some other angry postings.

I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the best hope
for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak. I have had
friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits
through
methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting
their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.
Everyone swears their way is the best and only way. We all can’t be right,
eh? Research and support for all treatment modalities should be
encouraged.
One of the reasons the drug war keeps going is that treatment modalities
are
so limited. I’ve read statistics that a person has the best chance of
staying clean if arrested, a wake-up call. Does that mean we should push
for
harsher sentences for addicts? Of course not, more treatment options dude!

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease it’s
handy to have a few treatment options available. For me the 12 steps did
not
work (though I believe there are many good qualities in the fellowship)
basically because I find the concept of God very complicated and find it
impossible to turn my life and my will over to something I do not
understand.  For me ibogaine was a helpful tool in treating my addictions,
as has exercise, proper nutrition, being in a great relationship and not
hanging around people using drugs. I have also witnessed too many addicts
use right after taking ibogaine to know that ibogaine is not a ‘cure.’
They
usually appreciate the great rush of doing heroin again after a few days
clean, though.

We can not judge the CSI program site-unseen. Think about it this way,
many
addicts will hear about ibogaine and if it sounds like it might help them
they will research further. No doubt there will be a few less addicts as a
result of the show. Media feeds on itself and undoubtedly more news
stories
will follow. I do trust that the writer, Jerry Stahl, treated the root
with
respect and that the science will be right. I also have faith that
Americans
are smart enough to realize that they are watching fiction. The image of a
dead clown seems wonderful. I also know Jerry has a desire to help addicts
and has helped me in staying off heroin.

I do not believe it is good to make ibogaine appear better by shit-talking
another treatment, something I did and regret. This is not how I feel, to
each his own and people are different. May all addicts be successful in
their journey to conquer the dark master of addiction.  It is very silly
for
addicts to be fighting among themselves.

I know you have already distributed the offensive e-mail widely and are
planning on disseminating the ‘incriminating e-mail’ at your rally. It is
not an accurate description on my thoughts regarding addiction, AA or
Jerry
Stahl. I have absolutely no wish for Jerry or anyone else ever to relapse
if
that is what they want in life. I deeply hope you do not distribute that
e-mail any further. I fail to see how it is helpful.

More so than wishing for Jerry to taste the root, I sincerely hope you
take
ibogaine in more than a sub-intoxication dose for pep before giving a
speech. I know you are not a junky. Perhaps you may find ibogaine helpful
for more than just removing your cyst. It can be a therapeutic and
spiritual
experience and may benefit you in other ways. I find it very odd that such
an ardent supporter of ibogaine has not tried it. You may also find it
beneficial to be able help more addicts if you have a personal experience
with the root. Aren’t curious to gain insight into your theory that
ibogaine
is the holy Eucharist given to Christ on the cross?

Perhaps the best way for us to succeed in presenting ibogaine for the
useful
medicine it is for some people, is to lead through a positive example.

I get the sense from both reading your e-mails and our conversation that
this is as much about keeping 9 Bleaker St. going as it promoting ibogaine
in a positive light. It would be a sad day if yippies loose their
headquarters, though sometimes unwanted change can be good.

As Rodney King put it so very eloquently “Why can’t we all just get
along?”

I wish you continued success in helping addicts.

The local CBS affiliate KCBS has done an ibogaine piece as I mentioned. I
do
not have a link or know if it is on the web which you asked for. All major
news organizations know about ibogaine, it’s their choice whether to cover
it or not, should we not be glad that more people will find out about
ibogaine? Perhaps we may owe a debt of gratitude to Jerry for bringing the
story to the greater public.

Protesting in front of CBS, before seeing the piece reminds me religious
zealots protesting some film or show they have never watched.

Best,
Steve Anker

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30  AM Thurs; Fax CBS:
NO
AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0500

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS, NOT IN
COP
SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca and
frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting down 9
Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373 South
Park
Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine
information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of an entire
Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz Kerry
actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back and got
more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look at the
science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production,
and
is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for
President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident
distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script,
please
fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make Ibogaine
available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we are
deeply
concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing this
medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and convict
who
now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force
addicts
to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell that he
became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming
spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar
problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by CBS,
Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you should
treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above
information
comes from an early draft of the script and details may change before the
episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news story to
give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine. The
following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 25, 2004 at 10:58:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro I agree with everything you wrote here 🙂

I don’t know how copyright works, I see it on every page of Mindvox but
this is a list that doesn’t mention it. I don’t know anything about law
or fair use I think the author owns their own message unless it’s said
otherwise? I have no idea what I’m talking about here. Marc you publish
magazines, what do you say?

Dana taking ibogaine is always a funny one. That was the best part of
the San Fran ibogaine conference the panel at the end where Dana is talking
about ibogaine, it’s on camera and being taped and Patrick reaches under
the table and holds up a jar of what was ounces of ibogaine and hands
it to Dana saying shut up and eat it. That was priceless I loved that
moment, Dr. Mash is laughing so hard she’s falling out of her chair and
the panel went crazy. I think Steve that a lot of people wonder that
very same thing.

Patrick besides all your other work, aren’t you high priest in sacrament
of transition with Marko? How can the two of you let Dana be a member
of your church if he hasn’t even taken the sacrament? 😉 Come on Dana!

I think Dana’s purpose for sending your letter everywhere in the world
is the same purpose he always has which is making as many people as he
can take notice. If it has a good result I don’t know.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 19:41:37 -0800 Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Dana et al&#133;

I was always under the impression that the ibogaine list was not
really
public property. The mind-vox site states that the materials contained
in
the site are copyrighted. In any case I wish you would have asked
permission
to distribute something that was written in the spur of the moment
and in a
flash of anger.  The descriptions of the CSI show upset me, in particular

the description of iboga as a cult. I deeply regret saying some very
mean
things. Had you asked, I would have said no, or at least clarified
my
thoughts. In this world manners are important, the polite thing
to do would
have been to ask. Frankly, what I wrote was very rude and incredibly
bad
manners on my part. Something I would never have written if I had
thought
would have been viewed outside of the site. It should not have been
written
in any-case. It was off the cuff and my own form of very bad humor
and a
response to some other angry postings.

I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the
best hope
for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak.
I have had
friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits
through
methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting

their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.

Everyone swears their way is the best and only way. We all can&#146;t
be right,
eh? Research and support for all treatment modalities should be
encouraged.
One of the reasons the drug war keeps going is that treatment modalities
are
so limited. I&#146;ve read statistics that a person has the best chance
of
staying clean if arrested, a wake-up call. Does that mean we should
push for
harsher sentences for addicts? Of course not, more treatment options
dude!

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease
it&#146;s
handy to have a few treatment options available. For me the 12 steps
did not
work (though I believe there are many good qualities in the fellowship)

basically because I find the concept of God very complicated and
find it
impossible to turn my life and my will over to something I do not

understand.  For me ibogaine was a helpful tool in treating my addictions,

as has exercise, proper nutrition, being in a great relationship
and not
hanging around people using drugs. I have also witnessed too many
addicts
use right after taking ibogaine to know that ibogaine is not a &#145;cure.&#146;
They
usually appreciate the great rush of doing heroin again after a
few days
clean, though.

We can not judge the CSI program site-unseen. Think about it this
way, many
addicts will hear about ibogaine and if it sounds like it might
help them
they will research further. No doubt there will be a few less addicts
as a
result of the show. Media feeds on itself and undoubtedly more news
stories
will follow. I do trust that the writer, Jerry Stahl, treated the
root with
respect and that the science will be right. I also have faith that
Americans
are smart enough to realize that they are watching fiction. The
image of a
dead clown seems wonderful. I also know Jerry has a desire to help
addicts
and has helped me in staying off heroin.

I do not believe it is good to make ibogaine appear better by shit-
talking
another treatment, something I did and regret. This is not how I
feel, to
each his own and people are different&#133; May all addicts be successful
in
their journey to conquer the dark master of addiction.  It is very
silly for
addicts to be fighting among themselves.

I know you have already distributed the offensive e-mail widely
and are
planning on disseminating the &#145;incriminating e-mail&#146; at your rally.
It is
not an accurate description on my thoughts regarding addiction,
AA or Jerry
Stahl. I have absolutely no wish for Jerry or anyone else ever to
relapse if
that is what they want in life. I deeply hope you do not distribute
that
e-mail any further. I fail to see how it is helpful.

More so than wishing for Jerry to taste the root, I sincerely hope
you take
ibogaine in more than a sub-intoxication dose for pep before giving
a
speech. I know you are not a junky. Perhaps you may find ibogaine
helpful
for more than just removing your cyst. It can be a therapeutic and
spiritual
experience and may benefit you in other ways. I find it very odd
that such
an ardent supporter of ibogaine has not tried it. You may also find
it
beneficial to be able help more addicts if you have a personal experience

with the root. Aren&#146;t curious to gain insight into your theory that
ibogaine
is the holy Eucharist given to Christ on the cross?

Perhaps the best way for us to succeed in presenting ibogaine for
the useful
medicine it is for some people, is to lead through a positive example.

I get the sense from both reading your e-mails and our conversation
that
this is as much about keeping 9 Bleaker St. going as it promoting
ibogaine
in a positive light. It would be a sad day if yippies loose their

headquarters, though sometimes unwanted change can be good.

As Rodney King put it so very eloquently &#147;Why can&#146;t we all just
get along?&#148;

I wish you continued success in helping addicts.

The local CBS affiliate KCBS has done an ibogaine piece as I mentioned.
I do
not have a link or know if it is on the web which you asked for.
All major
news organizations know about ibogaine, it&#146;s their choice whether
to cover
it or not, should we not be glad that more people will find out
about
ibogaine? Perhaps we may owe a debt of gratitude to Jerry for bringing
the
story to the greater public.

Protesting in front of CBS, before seeing the piece reminds me religious

zealots protesting some film or show they have never watched.

Best,
Steve Anker

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30  AM Thurs;
Fax CBS: NO
AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0500

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS,
NOT IN COP
SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca
and
frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting
down 9
Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East
Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373
South Park
Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine

information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of
an entire
Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz
Kerry
actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back
and got
more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look
at the
science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production,

and
is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for

President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident

distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script,

please
fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make
Ibogaine
available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we
are deeply
concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing
this
medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and
convict who
now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force
addicts
to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell
that he
became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming

spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar

problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed
by CBS,
Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you
should
treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above
information
comes from an early draft of the script and details may change
before the
episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news
story to
give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine.
The
following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click
here.
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 25, 2004 at 10:53:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/26/04 2:52:19 AM, iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr writes:

<< A new website providing Iboga and many other plants from the african

rainforest, They can provide very large amount.

www.vegetaux.com

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on anything
but the opening page.  Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 25, 2004 at 10:41:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana et al

I was always under the impression that the ibogaine list was not really public property. The mind-vox site states that the materials contained in the site are copyrighted. In any case I wish you would have asked permission to distribute something that was written in the spur of the moment and in a flash of anger.  The descriptions of the CSI show upset me, in particular the description of iboga as a cult. I deeply regret saying some very mean things. Had you asked, I would have said no, or at least clarified my thoughts. In this world manners are important, the polite thing to do would have been to ask. Frankly, what I wrote was very rude and incredibly bad manners on my part. Something I would never have written if I had thought would have been viewed outside of the site. It should not have been written in any-case. It was off the cuff and my own form of very bad humor and a response to some other angry postings.

I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the best hope for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak. I have had friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits through methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine. Everyone swears their way is the best and only way. We all can’t be right, eh? Research and support for all treatment modalities should be encouraged. One of the reasons the drug war keeps going is that treatment modalities are so limited. I’ve read statistics that a person has the best chance of staying clean if arrested, a wake-up call. Does that mean we should push for harsher sentences for addicts? Of course not, more treatment options dude!

Addiction is a metabolic disease of the brain and like any disease it’s handy to have a few treatment options available. For me the 12 steps did not work (though I believe there are many good qualities in the fellowship) basically because I find the concept of God very complicated and find it impossible to turn my life and my will over to something I do not understand.  For me ibogaine was a helpful tool in treating my addictions, as has exercise, proper nutrition, being in a great relationship and not hanging around people using drugs. I have also witnessed too many addicts use right after taking ibogaine to know that ibogaine is not a ‘cure.’  They usually appreciate the great rush of doing heroin again after a few days clean, though.

We can not judge the CSI program site-unseen. Think about it this way, many addicts will hear about ibogaine and if it sounds like it might help them they will research further. No doubt there will be a few less addicts as a result of the show. Media feeds on itself and undoubtedly more news stories will follow. I do trust that the writer, Jerry Stahl, treated the root with respect and that the science will be right. I also have faith that Americans are smart enough to realize that they are watching fiction. The image of a dead clown seems wonderful. I also know Jerry has a desire to help addicts and has helped me in staying off heroin.

I do not believe it is good to make ibogaine appear better by shit-talking another treatment, something I did and regret. This is not how I feel, to each his own and people are different
May all addicts be successful in their journey to conquer the dark master of addiction.  It is very silly for addicts to be fighting among themselves.

I know you have already distributed the offensive e-mail widely and are planning on disseminating the ‘incriminating e-mail’ at your rally. It is not an accurate description on my thoughts regarding addiction, AA or Jerry Stahl. I have absolutely no wish for Jerry or anyone else ever to relapse if that is what they want in life. I deeply hope you do not distribute that e-mail any further. I fail to see how it is helpful.

More so than wishing for Jerry to taste the root, I sincerely hope you take ibogaine in more than a sub-intoxication dose for pep before giving a speech. I know you are not a junky. Perhaps you may find ibogaine helpful for more than just removing your cyst. It can be a therapeutic and spiritual experience and may benefit you in other ways. I find it very odd that such an ardent supporter of ibogaine has not tried it. You may also find it beneficial to be able help more addicts if you have a personal experience with the root. Aren’t curious to gain insight into your theory that ibogaine is the holy Eucharist given to Christ on the cross?

Perhaps the best way for us to succeed in presenting ibogaine for the useful medicine it is for some people, is to lead through a positive example.

I get the sense from both reading your e-mails and our conversation that this is as much about keeping 9 Bleaker St. going as it promoting ibogaine in a positive light. It would be a sad day if yippies loose their headquarters, though sometimes unwanted change can be good.

As Rodney King put it so very eloquently “Why can’t we all just get along?”

I wish you continued success in helping addicts.

The local CBS affiliate KCBS has done an ibogaine piece as I mentioned. I do not have a link or know if it is on the web which you asked for. All major news organizations know about ibogaine, it’s their choice whether to cover it or not, should we not be glad that more people will find out about ibogaine? Perhaps we may owe a debt of gratitude to Jerry for bringing the story to the greater public.

Protesting in front of CBS, before seeing the piece reminds me religious zealots protesting some film or show they have never watched.

Best,
Steve Anker

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30  AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:55:41 -0500

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS, NOT IN COP SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca and frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting down 9 Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373 South Park Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of an entire Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz Kerry actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back and got more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look at the science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production, and is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script, please fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make Ibogaine available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we are deeply concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing this medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and convict who now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force addicts to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell that he became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by CBS,  Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you should treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above information comes from an early draft of the script and details may change before the episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news story to give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine. The following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
Date: February 25, 2004 at 10:03:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and who would you suggest DOES know about such things?  i mean are you
implying that a specific *cough*mash*/cough* person(s) does?

n

(btw/ps – i know how people can COMPLETELY blow typed word out of
proportion on this list, so before someone generly ASSUMES something, i AM
NOT saying that mash DOESNT have knowledge about said topics.  thanks.)

I have spoken to many doctors and it is clear that Marc E knows nothing ,
I
mean absolutly nothing about medicine, drug interactions, pharmacokinetics
or
how Ibo works at all. He may be a saint but a little knowledge can kill.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:53:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL sorry I wrote before you wrote and I didn’t have
to write either 😉

Let me change what I have to say and wish everyone
here the very best day tomorrow instead and let’s hope
the CSI ibogaine episode shows at least something
positive!

LMAO 🙂

Carla B

— deartheo@ziplip.com wrote:
You are probably correct, I appoligize to all
involved…it’s very frustrating to come to this
list for some kind of support in the sense that
everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga is
mentioned, but their apperars to be very little of
that and what I wrote was out of that frustation and
I’m definately no where close to be done yet in
regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse
though, I should have bit my tounge…
I’ll work you into my 9th step : )
—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com
[mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 6:28 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and
Patrick show

Bro I understand being angry I am sometimes too
for no good reason but
that was a insert foot into mouth message. Patrick
has probably written
more about recovery and ibogaine then anyone ever
did, he talks at every
ibogaine conference, he’s on the steering panel of
the american harm
reduction coalition, he and epoptica might be
epoptica and junk the magic
dragon in MAPS 😉

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles.html

He also runs mindvox and this list which everyone
uses for free so they
can talk shit about him and everything else. I’m
as guilty of that as
anyone and I won’t turn around and attack you but
that was one of the
dumbest posts of all time. He wrote a funny and
angry response to 25
messages worth of hate thrown at him and Mash.
I’ve watched you have
a melt down here more then a few times over
messages that aren’t even
written to you.

Patrick has attitude sometimes, he’s allowed 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:06:55 -0800
deartheo@ziplip.com wrote:
The ‘I was out to debunk the therory’ was a
tastey angle.  The reporter
was played so well I don’t think he knew what was
happening.  I am
happy to see some media attention though.
Perhaps we can start an
on list training session ran by a local
telemarketer or used car
salesman.

Cell Fish

oh and I’ll definatley regret this (i can already
see the words
‘while jason and patrick try to out junkie one
another’), but if
you had fifteen grand to drop on ibogaine
treatment you seem a little
nieve to me as far as the depths of the shit, but
I am happy your
doing well and am curious about how your after
care went (besides
12 step programs, your not telling anyone here
anything they didn’t
already know regarding 12 step pushers).  “niggaz
for life” give
me a break.  But I don’t know you or your history
and to be honest,
from what I’ve read of your posts, I’m not sure
your worth the trouble
to get to know.  Perhaps another dose could do
you some good?  I
know it will me.  Fuckin’ Haters breed hate, they
don’t have to spend
any energy dividing and concuring us because we
do that fine on our
own, no?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 5:39 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and
Patrick show

what it is billym is a reply by Curtis to a
reply from Patrick
Kroupa that
came through just a few hours before Curtis’
did.
Peace,
Preston

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to
get
FREE encrypted email:
https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush
Messenger

https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail
Affiliate Program:

https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:52:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dearthzero I don’t argue with anyone here but your
message might win the dumbest message of all time
which is hard to claim on this list! Patrick has
written at least 300 messages during years that helped
a lot of people, he helped me when I was trying to
stay clean the first time, he’s a sweetheart.

What Curtis said is also true, he’s run the list for
years, everyone is on it and says anything they want,
he’s never promoted any ibogaine treatment and I’m
sure he could since the site is his, I’ve watched
hundreds of messages go by throwing hate at him and he
doesn’t censor it or stop it. I don’t think I could do
that that is asking someone to be a better person then
I can be most of the time.

My one comment that I thought it was tacky that Dr.
Mash called Howard Lotsof some junkie wanting to get
high instead of naming him holds true. The rest of
what I see is hate at Deborah and Patrick because they
did a great job and got more coverage then any of the
ibogaine interviews that have come out in years.

I know your struggling and see you post here and I so
hope you make it I hope everyone makes it but when you
talk about hating are you talking to yourself?

Carla B

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro I understand being angry I am sometimes too for
no good reason but
that was a insert foot into mouth message. Patrick
has probably written
more about recovery and ibogaine then anyone ever
did, he talks at every
ibogaine conference, he’s on the steering panel of
the american harm
reduction coalition, he and epoptica might be
epoptica and junk the magic
dragon in MAPS 😉

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles.html

He also runs mindvox and this list which everyone
uses for free so they
can talk shit about him and everything else. I’m as
guilty of that as
anyone and I won’t turn around and attack you but
that was one of the
dumbest posts of all time. He wrote a funny and
angry response to 25
messages worth of hate thrown at him and Mash. I’ve
watched you have
a melt down here more then a few times over messages
that aren’t even
written to you.

Patrick has attitude sometimes, he’s allowed 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:06:55 -0800
deartheo@ziplip.com wrote:
The ‘I was out to debunk the therory’ was a tastey
angle.  The reporter
was played so well I don’t think he knew what was
happening.  I am
happy to see some media attention though.  Perhaps
we can start an
on list training session ran by a local
telemarketer or used car
salesman.

Cell Fish

oh and I’ll definatley regret this (i can already
see the words
‘while jason and patrick try to out junkie one
another’), but if
you had fifteen grand to drop on ibogaine treatment
you seem a little
nieve to me as far as the depths of the shit, but I
am happy your
doing well and am curious about how your after care
went (besides
12 step programs, your not telling anyone here
anything they didn’t
already know regarding 12 step pushers).  “niggaz
for life” give
me a break.  But I don’t know you or your history
and to be honest,
from what I’ve read of your posts, I’m not sure
your worth the trouble
to get to know.  Perhaps another dose could do you
some good?  I
know it will me.  Fuckin’ Haters breed hate, they
don’t have to spend
any energy dividing and concuring us because we do
that fine on our
own, no?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 5:39 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and
Patrick show

what it is billym is a reply by Curtis to a reply
from Patrick
Kroupa that
came through just a few hours before Curtis’ did.
Peace,
Preston

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to
get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush
Messenger

https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail
Affiliate Program:

https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “iboga_planteur” <iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:56:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A new website providing Iboga and many other plants from the african
rainforest, They can provide very large amount.
www.vegetaux.com

Planteur

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:45:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are probably correct, I appoligize to all involved…it’s very frustrating to come to this list for some kind of support in the sense that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga is mentioned, but their apperars to be very little of that and what I wrote was out of that frustation and I’m definately no where close to be done yet in regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse though, I should have bit my tounge…
I’ll work you into my 9th step : )
—–Original Message—–
From: crownofthorns@hushmail.com [mailto:crownofthorns@hushmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 6:28 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show

Bro I understand being angry I am sometimes too for no good reason but
that was a insert foot into mouth message. Patrick has probably written
more about recovery and ibogaine then anyone ever did, he talks at every
ibogaine conference, he’s on the steering panel of the american harm
reduction coalition, he and epoptica might be epoptica and junk the magic
dragon in MAPS 😉

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles.html

He also runs mindvox and this list which everyone uses for free so they
can talk shit about him and everything else. I’m as guilty of that as
anyone and I won’t turn around and attack you but that was one of the
dumbest posts of all time. He wrote a funny and angry response to 25
messages worth of hate thrown at him and Mash. I’ve watched you have
a melt down here more then a few times over messages that aren’t even
written to you.

Patrick has attitude sometimes, he’s allowed 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:06:55 -0800 deartheo@ziplip.com wrote:
The ‘I was out to debunk the therory’ was a tastey angle.  The reporter
was played so well I don’t think he knew what was happening.  I am
happy to see some media attention though.  Perhaps we can start an
on list training session ran by a local telemarketer or used car
salesman.

Cell Fish

oh and I’ll definatley regret this (i can already see the words
‘while jason and patrick try to out junkie one another’), but if
you had fifteen grand to drop on ibogaine treatment you seem a little
nieve to me as far as the depths of the shit, but I am happy your
doing well and am curious about how your after care went (besides
12 step programs, your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t
already know regarding 12 step pushers).  “niggaz for life” give
me a break.  But I don’t know you or your history and to be honest,
from what I’ve read of your posts, I’m not sure your worth the trouble
to get to know.  Perhaps another dose could do you some good?  I
know it will me.  Fuckin’ Haters breed hate, they don’t have to spend
any energy dividing and concuring us because we do that fine on our
own, no?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 5:39 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show

what it is billym is a reply by Curtis to a reply from Patrick
Kroupa that
came through just a few hours before Curtis’ did.
Peace,
Preston

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:24:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro I understand being angry I am sometimes too for no good reason but
that was a insert foot into mouth message. Patrick has probably written
more about recovery and ibogaine then anyone ever did, he talks at every
ibogaine conference, he’s on the steering panel of the american harm
reduction coalition, he and epoptica might be epoptica and junk the magic
dragon in MAPS 😉

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/Articles.html

He also runs mindvox and this list which everyone uses for free so they
can talk shit about him and everything else. I’m as guilty of that as
anyone and I won’t turn around and attack you but that was one of the
dumbest posts of all time. He wrote a funny and angry response to 25
messages worth of hate thrown at him and Mash. I’ve watched you have
a melt down here more then a few times over messages that aren’t even
written to you.

Patrick has attitude sometimes, he’s allowed 😉

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 18:06:55 -0800 deartheo@ziplip.com wrote:
The ‘I was out to debunk the therory’ was a tastey angle.  The reporter
was played so well I don’t think he knew what was happening.  I am
happy to see some media attention though.  Perhaps we can start an
on list training session ran by a local telemarketer or used car
salesman.

Cell Fish

oh and I’ll definatley regret this (i can already see the words
‘while jason and patrick try to out junkie one another’), but if
you had fifteen grand to drop on ibogaine treatment you seem a little
nieve to me as far as the depths of the shit, but I am happy your
doing well and am curious about how your after care went (besides
12 step programs, your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t
already know regarding 12 step pushers).  “niggaz for life” give
me a break.  But I don’t know you or your history and to be honest,
from what I’ve read of your posts, I’m not sure your worth the trouble
to get to know.  Perhaps another dose could do you some good?  I
know it will me.  Fuckin’ Haters breed hate, they don’t have to spend
any energy dividing and concuring us because we do that fine on our
own, no?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 5:39 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show

what it is billym is a reply by Curtis to a reply from Patrick
Kroupa that
came through just a few hours before Curtis’ did.
Peace,
Preston

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:09:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have spoken to many doctors and it is clear that Marc E knows nothing , I mean absolutly nothing about medicine, drug interactions, pharmacokinetics or how Ibo works at all. He may be a saint but a little knowledge can kill.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:07:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ONCE AGAIN patrick rules. You tell em patty me boy,Such anger from peace loving hippies.

Mommy didnt chance their diapers in time or some fruedian shit like that.

Yeah, those who write this nasty shit- do a lot to get this drug on the market. they pay for other treatments, they have credentilas that will make the squares listem . Mash and patrick;;; g-d bless you both.

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 9:06:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The ‘I was out to debunk the therory’ was a tastey angle.  The reporter was played so well I don’t think he knew what was happening.  I am happy to see some media attention though.  Perhaps we can start an on list training session ran by a local telemarketer or used car salesman.

Cell Fish

oh and I’ll definatley regret this (i can already see the words ‘while jason and patrick try to out junkie one another’), but if you had fifteen grand to drop on ibogaine treatment you seem a little nieve to me as far as the depths of the shit, but I am happy your doing well and am curious about how your after care went (besides 12 step programs, your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know regarding 12 step pushers).  “niggaz for life” give me a break.  But I don’t know you or your history and to be honest, from what I’ve read of your posts, I’m not sure your worth the trouble to get to know.  Perhaps another dose could do you some good?  I know it will me.  Fuckin’ Haters breed hate, they don’t have to spend any energy dividing and concuring us because we do that fine on our own, no?
—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004, 5:39 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show

what it is billym is a reply by Curtis to a reply from Patrick Kroupa that
came through just a few hours before Curtis’ did.
Peace,
Preston

oh, and I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with Patrick in that I too
happen to like my “tribe,” although it seems a fairly interchangable one.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Billym
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show

Curtis,
I can’t quite understand what this IS that you sent me. Can you tell me what
it is? With an explanation it might make an interesting  post,
billym

crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:14:01 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 03:34:49PM -0800], [zeke@hush.com] wrote:

–       –       –       –       –       –       –       –       –

This wid’ da tracks:

|         Patric I have less disappointment over you because you’ve
done
| all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest thing is
you are
| a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your experience.
People
| are listening, especially when you flash your arm, you should
have it
| framed.

And this …

|         Both of you are assholes. Patric you know the real story
behind
| ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but you keep
on protecting
| her and lying for her. You make her look like mother Theresa.
I watch
| this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine is dangerous
lady,
|  the two of you make each other look human and you lay on the
shit so
| thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for you. I hope
both
| of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using you. Go on
Patric
| flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash registers
ring all
| over her over priced treatment.

Well … they’re MY tracks.  My tribal scars belong to me.  My experience
belongs to me.  I survived.  What the fuck is it that you’ve accomplished
or done…?  I try to be open-minded, listen to the opinions of
other
people, and have the general belief that there is no single correct
solution to … anything.  Many paradigms are valid.

But, however, on the flipside of that: if you have subjective knowledge
of
nothing; objective knowledge of even less; and all you do is run
your
mouth about topics which you know zero about … well, perhaps you
should
shut the fuck up and go get your eyebrows pierced instead.  Ohhhhh,
scary,
r3belLiouS and anTiSociaL!@#!@#!@#.

And ya know what … I really like my tribe.  There are very few
of us.
The Church of the Psychedelic Junkie : Former Hardcore Dopefiends
unAnonymous.  NiggahZ 4 liFe!
Great answer bro! 🙂
|         I pray Stan Glick comes through with something, because
there
| is no other scientist working on anything, only a group of self
promoting
| entertainers.

No doubt it will be pseudoanonymous twerps writing shit to lists
on the
internet, who will save the world.  “And.  and…  and, I’m cycling
at
Warp Speed; I have smoke coming out of my ears and I’m pressing
the keys
REALLY HARD!@#!@!!!”

In conclusion: when I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.
Agreed with Marcus. Best answer yet 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434
Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[
/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 8:30:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what it is billym is a reply by Curtis to a reply from Patrick Kroupa that
came through just a few hours before Curtis’ did.
Peace,
Preston

oh, and I have to say I wholeheartedly agree with Patrick in that I too
happen to like my “tribe,” although it seems a fairly interchangable one.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Billym
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2004 8:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show

Curtis,
I can’t quite understand what this IS that you sent me. Can you tell me what
it is? With an explanation it might make an interesting  post,
billym

crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:14:01 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 03:34:49PM -0800], [zeke@hush.com] wrote:

–       –       –       –       –       –       –       –       –

This wid’ da tracks:

|         Patric I have less disappointment over you because you’ve
done
| all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest thing is
you are
| a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your experience.
People
| are listening, especially when you flash your arm, you should
have it
| framed.

And this …

|         Both of you are assholes. Patric you know the real story
behind
| ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but you keep
on protecting
| her and lying for her. You make her look like mother Theresa.
I watch
| this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine is dangerous
lady,
|  the two of you make each other look human and you lay on the
shit so
| thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for you. I hope
both
| of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using you. Go on
Patric
| flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash registers
ring all
| over her over priced treatment.

Well … they’re MY tracks.  My tribal scars belong to me.  My experience
belongs to me.  I survived.  What the fuck is it that you’ve accomplished
or done…?  I try to be open-minded, listen to the opinions of
other
people, and have the general belief that there is no single correct
solution to … anything.  Many paradigms are valid.

But, however, on the flipside of that: if you have subjective knowledge
of
nothing; objective knowledge of even less; and all you do is run
your
mouth about topics which you know zero about … well, perhaps you
should
shut the fuck up and go get your eyebrows pierced instead.  Ohhhhh,
scary,
r3belLiouS and anTiSociaL!@#!@#!@#.

And ya know what … I really like my tribe.  There are very few
of us.
The Church of the Psychedelic Junkie : Former Hardcore Dopefiends
unAnonymous.  NiggahZ 4 liFe!
Great answer bro! 🙂
|         I pray Stan Glick comes through with something, because
there
| is no other scientist working on anything, only a group of self
promoting
| entertainers.

No doubt it will be pseudoanonymous twerps writing shit to lists
on the
internet, who will save the world.  “And.  and…  and, I’m cycling
at
Warp Speed; I have smoke coming out of my ears and I’m pressing
the keys
REALLY HARD!@#!@!!!”

In conclusion: when I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.
Agreed with Marcus. Best answer yet 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434
Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[
/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Billym <prema@prahlad.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 8:13:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Curtis,
I can’t quite understand what this IS that you sent me. Can you tell me what it is? With an explanation it might make an interesting  post,
billym
crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:14:01 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
>On [Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 03:34:49PM -0800], [zeke@hush.com] wrote:
>
>
>       –       –       –       –       –       –       –       –       –
>
>This wid’ da tracks:
>
>|         Patric I have less disappointment over you because you’ve
>done
>| all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest thing is
>you are
>| a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your experience.
>People
>| are listening, especially when you flash your arm, you should
>have it
>| framed.
>
>And this …
>
>|         Both of you are assholes. Patric you know the real story
>behind
>| ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but you keep
>on protecting
>| her and lying for her. You make her look like mother Theresa.
>I watch
>| this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine is dangerous
>lady,
>|  the two of you make each other look human and you lay on the
>shit so
>| thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for you. I hope
>both
>| of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using you. Go on
>Patric
>| flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash registers
>ring all
>| over her over priced treatment.
>
>Well … they’re MY tracks.  My tribal scars belong to me.  My experience
>belongs to me.  I survived.  What the fuck is it that you’ve accomplished
>or done…?  I try to be open-minded, listen to the opinions of
>other
>people, and have the general belief that there is no single correct
>solution to … anything.  Many paradigms are valid.
>
>But, however, on the flipside of that: if you have subjective knowledge
>of
>nothing; objective knowledge of even less; and all you do is run
>your
>mouth about topics which you know zero about … well, perhaps you
>should
>shut the fuck up and go get your eyebrows pierced instead.  Ohhhhh,
> scary,
>r3belLiouS and anTiSociaL!@#!@#!@#.
>
>And ya know what … I really like my tribe.  There are very few
>of us.
>The Church of the Psychedelic Junkie : Former Hardcore Dopefiends
>unAnonymous.  NiggahZ 4 liFe!
Great answer bro! 🙂
>|         I pray Stan Glick comes through with something, because 
>there 
>| is no other scientist working on anything, only a group of self 
>promoting 
>| entertainers. 
> 
>No doubt it will be pseudoanonymous twerps writing shit to lists 
>on the 
>internet, who will save the world.  “And.  and…  and, I’m cycling 
>at 
>Warp Speed; I have smoke coming out of my ears and I’m pressing 
>the keys 
>REALLY HARD!@#!@!!!” 
> 
>In conclusion: when I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.
Agreed with Marcus. Best answer yet 🙂
>
Peace out, 
Curtis
Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get 
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2
Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger 
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434
Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program: 
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427
/]=———————————————————————=[\ 
 [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] 
  \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 7:55:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 12:14:01 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 03:34:49PM -0800], [zeke@hush.com] wrote:

– – – – – – – – –

This wid’ da tracks:

|         Patric I have less disappointment over you because you’ve
done
| all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest thing is
you are
| a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your experience.
People
| are listening, especially when you flash your arm, you should
have it
| framed.

And this …

|         Both of you are assholes. Patric you know the real story
behind
| ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but you keep
on protecting
| her and lying for her. You make her look like mother Theresa.
I watch
| this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine is dangerous
lady,
|  the two of you make each other look human and you lay on the
shit so
| thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for you. I hope
both
| of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using you. Go on
Patric
| flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash registers
ring all
| over her over priced treatment.

Well … they’re MY tracks.  My tribal scars belong to me.  My experience
belongs to me.  I survived.  What the fuck is it that you’ve accomplished
or done…?  I try to be open-minded, listen to the opinions of
other
people, and have the general belief that there is no single correct
solution to … anything.  Many paradigms are valid.

But, however, on the flipside of that: if you have subjective knowledge
of
nothing; objective knowledge of even less; and all you do is run
your
mouth about topics which you know zero about … well, perhaps you
should
shut the fuck up and go get your eyebrows pierced instead.  Ohhhhh,
scary,
r3belLiouS and anTiSociaL!@#!@#!@#.

And ya know what … I really like my tribe.  There are very few
of us.
The Church of the Psychedelic Junkie : Former Hardcore Dopefiends
unAnonymous.  NiggahZ 4 liFe!

Great answer bro! 🙂

|         I pray Stan Glick comes through with something, because
there
| is no other scientist working on anything, only a group of self
promoting
| entertainers.

No doubt it will be pseudoanonymous twerps writing shit to lists
on the
internet, who will save the world.  “And.  and…  and, I’m cycling
at
Warp Speed; I have smoke coming out of my ears and I’m pressing
the keys
REALLY HARD!@#!@!!!”

In conclusion: when I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.

Agreed with Marcus. Best answer yet 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 4:30:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/25/04 2:41:52 PM, digital@phantom.com writes:

In conclusion: when I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.

well put……..patrick!!!!!!
marcus

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 25, 2004 at 3:14:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 03:34:49PM -0800], [zeke@hush.com] wrote:

|         I’m putting this on the list after sending private email to both
| mash and patric. Mash writes me a self righteous reply and Patric ignores
| his email and doesn’t say anything no news there right.

I get a lotta email, I do my best to reply to people who have relatively
sane questions, which can be answered in a few sentences.  However, I’m
not your secretary.  When confronted with the usual three-mile-long
letters that all seem to be derived from the Completely Incoherent &
Histrionic template; I hit delete a lot.

To give you many props, at least you use carriage returns once inna while.

|         It would be easier to write if there was a right or wrong but
| looking at the people on this list and the way they act and I do not
| mean the addicts, I’m talking about the treatment people, the most pathetic
| thing is the two of you did the best ibogaine story that’s come out in
| years. Besides this and JAMA what has been in the media about ibogaine
| in the last two years is at the level of the national enquirer and nobody
| pays attention to it. I’m looking online and I see that ibogaine.net
| went from being dead and having a hit rate of below 1 million to where
| it’s gone in two days, it’s at 30,000 because that ‘journalist’ who broke
| the Monica Lewinsky story put ‘Hallucinogen that cures addiction’ on
| the front page of his site.

<Complete summary of whatcha just wrote>  “I’m angry; I’m less angry; I’m
not angry; you did a great job; you suck and are evil; I’m angry; I’m not
sure; I’m angry.  In conclusion: I’m feeling very cranky, petulant, and
toTally FilLeD with malaise and ennui … I have this theory that it’s
your fault.  Allow me to elucidate, mostly incoherently, at length…”

Thanks for sharing.  And … I’d like to take this moment to point out
that there are many highly effective medications available.  Fer instance,
Bayer A.G. has this miracle product called Heroin(R).  It’s highly
soothing, very comforting, calms ya right now.  Plus, also, unlike
morphine, it’s COMPLETELY NON-ADDICTIVE!@#!!!  (Just read the package
inserts, click your heels together three times, and BELIEVE!)

| I love the links on the site, you’ve
| removed any content that had any value and thrown it off the site and
| link to this
| http://www.ibogaine.net/links.html
| Laser hair removal, work at home businesses and treatment pimps. When
| is the used car lot coming?

I do not run ibogaine.net.  I control DNS; that is all.  If you have any
questions I suggest running traceroute and seeing where it lands … where
it DOES NOT go, are the MindVox servers.  I have absolutely nothing to do
with the content.

Besides, it ain’t THAT BAD.  The Pop-Up Banner with a Flashing Blue Light
SpeShuL on Genuine Rolex Replicas isn’t running yet.  And, perhaps, if you
dose with ibogaine you get a coupon good for one l@s3r-h4iR remoVal
treatment, and an exciting opportunity to get in on the ground-floor of
your very own home bid’ness!!#!@#!@!!

If you’re like, all broken down and fucked up and just got unsprung, maybe
ya need to generate some flow super-fast.  A Home Bid’ness could be JUST
THE ANSWER!  Most especially if you happen to be on house arresT.

|         It’s so funny how the man who invented the term ‘Treatment Pimp’
| is promoting it right now. Everything changes when you get paid right?

To reiterate: *I* am not running this thing.  I have nothing whatsoever to
do with the content, actions, or overall vibe created by whomever is doing
this.  I derive no financial gain from this in any way whatsoever.  If you
have any questions, problems, or complaints; I would suggest availing
yourself of the toll-free number and giving them a call.  I’m sure they
will be highly receptive to hearing from you.

– – – – – – – – –

This wid’ da tracks:

|         Patric I have less disappointment over you because you’ve done
| all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest thing is you are
| a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your experience. People
| are listening, especially when you flash your arm, you should have it
| framed.

And this …

|         Both of you are assholes. Patric you know the real story behind
| ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but you keep on protecting
| her and lying for her. You make her look like mother Theresa. I watch
| this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine is dangerous lady,
|  the two of you make each other look human and you lay on the shit so
| thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for you. I hope both
| of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using you. Go on Patric
| flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash registers ring all
| over her over priced treatment.

Well … they’re MY tracks.  My tribal scars belong to me.  My experience
belongs to me.  I survived.  What the fuck is it that you’ve accomplished
or done…?  I try to be open-minded, listen to the opinions of other
people, and have the general belief that there is no single correct
solution to … anything.  Many paradigms are valid.

But, however, on the flipside of that: if you have subjective knowledge of
nothing; objective knowledge of even less; and all you do is run your
mouth about topics which you know zero about … well, perhaps you should
shut the fuck up and go get your eyebrows pierced instead.  Ohhhhh, scary,
r3belLiouS and anTiSociaL!@#!@#!@#.

And ya know what … I really like my tribe.  There are very few of us.
The Church of the Psychedelic Junkie : Former Hardcore Dopefiends
unAnonymous.  NiggahZ 4 liFe!

|         Patric you’re lucky that you can communicate because if you couldn’t,
|  then Mash wouldn’t care about you either. Nobody who has ever had anything
| to do with her has ended up with anything except lawsuits and broken
| promises, except for you. Because you never shut up and people listen
| to you. Lucky you.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.  I was born with the ability to communicate; it
required no effort on my part.  And I stepped out of drug-dependence, just
because I got lucky — I didn’t actually have to do anything — God landed
a UFO one day, rearranged me, and handed me a Brand New Life.

No, wait, nevermind, that’s actually pretty close to what happened.

As far as Deborah goes … I speak MY truth.  And it’s very simple …
when I was totally fucked, broken down, and approaching a decade totally
sprung.  Who was there; who helped me…?  Sure the fuck wasn’t you.  Or
anybody else involved with ibogaine — at the time (1999) most of the
current treatment providers didn’t even exist — there was exactly ONE
person: Deborah.

I were to summarize the three essential components of how I cut loose that
whole entire being sprung scenario, it’d go like this: ibogaine, Deborah,
and eventually myself.

I have a tremendous amount of gratitude towards her; towards ibogaine for
existing; towards Howard for discovering that neat side effect it has,
other than just making you trip out; towards my friends, who are mostly a
collection of total freaks, who are also managing to hold things together,
and provide, uhm, I’m not sure “support system” is accurate, but sumthin’
like consistent reinforcement that what we’re doin’ is possible.

And yes, I still have hostility and anger towards subnormal, low IQ idiots
who attempted to ram the One True Answer to everything — the 12 steps —
down my throat, while I was extremely weak and falling apart.  The
feelings I have towards them, are the same I would have for anyone who
attempted to inflict emotional damages upon me while I’m totally fucked,
and brainwash me into some paradigm of eternal powerlessness.  Fuck that
noise mahn, I’m very grateful none of that crap worked out, and simply had
no resonance for me.

As I think I’ve said maybe 50 times, I have no problem with the 12 steps
— they simply amount to, greatly simplified, very old eastern concepts
for dismantling ego, specifically rewritten for drug-dependent individuals
who are acclimated to western culture.  Not much new there.  Nothing wrong
with that.  And quite a few of my friends have at least partial
involvement with all this.

What I have a problem with are people who SELL this shit as the ONLY
ANSWER to Everything; you are either with us, or one of the Unsaved
Sinners, who is Already In a State of Relapse; and it’s like…  ya know,
I don’t need this shit, shut the fuck up, sit and spin with your
eternal classification of yourself as “powerless” and “addicted” and go
catch some meetings and share; you’d feel better.

|         I pray Stan Glick comes through with something, because there
| is no other scientist working on anything, only a group of self promoting
| entertainers.

No doubt it will be pseudoanonymous twerps writing shit to lists on the
internet, who will save the world.  “And.  and…  and, I’m cycling at
Warp Speed; I have smoke coming out of my ears and I’m pressing the keys
REALLY HARD!@#!@!!!”

In conclusion: when I want your opinion, I’ll give it to you.

Live Long and Prosper / Fuck Off and Die

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
Date: February 25, 2004 at 4:02:56 AM EST
To: ‘Brett Calabrese’ <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The foods that are taken in should not be MAO inhibitors, that could cause a liver malfunction, especially to an addict who has Hepatitus C. I suspect trouble there. The liver might have rejected the tyrine (the dangerous amino acid that ibogaine and many substances render the liver unable to process for 24 to 48 hours after) that is in cheeses, pungents, many foods and failed, causing vomit, regurgitation.

What happened to the guide who administered the dosage? That probably was awful for that person.

It’s a lesson for other ibogaine administrators to be careful of the foods chosen to give to the recovering patient.(Also, do not treat patients with HEP C damage to the liver in excess, this can be done by reading the blood tests accurately – AND MAKE SURE THESE BLOOD TESTS ARE DONE BEFORE TREATMENT.) we have treated many patients with Hep C, but the liver has to be functioning fully.

Thanks for that information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—–Original Message—–
From: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 5:47 PM
To: marc@cannabisculture.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up? Off list

Marc,

There were other factors. What I was getting was this guy was in real bad shape, had bad hep C (also included as part of the cause of death), inexperience on the guide – being her first, likely he ate too much food, wasn’t watched close enough. I got the feeling that he was at the edge. Perhaps he would have done better with 3-4gm of Indra and followed with smaller doses over the next few days, watched closer, he couldn’t have done worse.. It goes in the active addict catagory, they don’t exactly read the manual or follow instructions very well.  There will be more.

The above is just my feeling of the events as I heard them, like it was a last ditch event to cure an out of control addiction, and he lost.

I too am interested in what they ate. Some people want to chomp down on  all kinds of garbage, candy, cheezeburgers… more solid foods and they shouldn’t till they take soft food first (fruit, oatmeal, soup…) and my favorite watermelon.

Be well,

Brett

Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com> wrote:
Was J supervised at the time? Seems like an unusual reaction as by 38
hours, it’s good to have a bit of food. What kind of food was it, do you
know?
When patients go more than 72 hours without food, the glucose levels
drop and a person can fall into unconsciousness.

Thanks for the information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nicks22@onetel.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:33 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Hi Marc,

Must be a pretty old newspaper. J died back in Jan 2000 if I recall
correctly, and the inquest was a year later. They put the cause of death
down to “iboga extract, fatal reaction” – J died through choking on his
vomit just after eating his first meal after the treatment. He’d taken
a! round 6g of Indra iboga extract about 38 hours before.

Because of the death the MCA put Tabernanthe iboga on a list of herbal
preparations they are seeking to control further, but as far as I know
this
hasn’t happened yet, and isn’t likely to for a while. Whether ibogaine
itself will be affected is not clear.

IMO, the main thing to be learned from the tragic event is the need for
constant vigilance of the client throughout the whole treatment,
bathroom
visits included.

all the best

Nick


—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:55 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?


> Who was the treatment provider in the UK who screwed up?
>
> Marc Emery
> Iboga Therapy House
>
> Re:
> PSYCHEDELIC ADDICTION TREATMENT FACES BAN
> AFTER HEROIN USER’S DEATH
>
> by Max Daly
>
> A natural psychoactive drug used to treat heroin, methadone, cocaine
and
> alcohol addiction faces a UK ban depsite clinical research showing it
> has
> reduced deadly cravings in scores of patients.
>
> Extracted from the root bark of an African plant, ibogaine is used by
> indigenous people to combat fatigue and in spiritual rituals and was
> first
> used
> to treat drug addicts in America in the 1960s.
>
> The most comprehensive study into ibogaine to date is now being
carried
> out
> with 32 heroin addicts on the Caribbean island of St Kitts. Conducted
by
> neurology expert Dr Deborah Mash from Miami University, the research
has
> so
> far
> revealed the drug “has significantly reduced craving for opiates” for
> all
> patients.
>
> But an inquest resuming this week into the death of a 40-year-old
> hepatitus
> C-infected heroin addict, who died in London early last year, could
> result in
> the drug being banned. Ibogaine, taken by the man 40 hours before his
> death,
> was probably to blame, according to doctors.
>
> The pathologist’s report stated the rare drug was “by far the most
> likely
> explanation” for his death. During the initial stages of the inquest -
> adjourned last month pending data on the effect of ibogaine from Dr
Mash
> – the
> coroner said the drug should be banned if it is deemed to be the cause
> of
> death.
>
> The coroner’s verdict could be a world-first. Records show three
people
> have
> died after taking ibogaine, according to Dr Kenneth Alper, associate
> professor
> of neurology and psychiatry at the New York School of Medicine. Yet in
> each
> case, says Alper, ibogaine was not name! d as cause of death.
>
> Supporters of ibogaine point out current government-funded addiction
> treatments
> are far from safe. Heroin addicts are prescribed methadone – itself
> highly
> addictive and implicated in the deaths of more than 200 people in the
UK
> each
> year.
>
> With ibogaine, the drug works by ‘resetting’ brain functions which
> relate to
> addiction, enabling patients to avoid powerful withdrawal symptoms -
the
> major
> barrier to giving up.
>
> Dr Mash, who admits the drug should only be taken under medical
> supervision,
> said ibogaine’s potential as a safer and more effective alternative to
> present
> treatments is suffering from a lack of support from authorities in the
> US and
> Europe. “Addicts desperate for an effective treatment will try to get
> help in
> any way possible,” she said.
>
> ! “The lack of government-sanctioned studies has forced this effective
> treatment
> into underground settings. Many accepted treatments for opiate
> detoxification
> have led to deaths. With medical supervision, ibogaine is a safe
drug.”
>
> A series of informal trials among more than 300 addicts in Denmark,
> Holland,
> the Czech Republic and the Caribbean over 10 years produced similar
> findings.
> Ibogaine is legal in Britain but is classified as an ‘unlicensed
> experimental
> medicine’. It is a restricted substance in the US, Switzerland, Sweden
> and
> Belgium.
>
> Shane Collins, of the Green Party drugs group said: “This drug is a
> plant
> medicine which requires serious research. It offers the potential of
> treating
> one of the greater ills of society.”
>
> –
> Phil Stovell
> South Hampshire, UK
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



/]=———————————————————————
=[\ 
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/



/]=———————————————————————=[\ 
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] from DHHS and NPR e-mail address
Date: February 25, 2004 at 1:09:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(not much new here I’m afraid)

February 24, 2004
Mr. Jason Bursey
5827 Timbercrest Drive
Arlington, Texas 76017
Dear Mr. Bursey:
Your emails to Dr. Elias A. Zerhouni, Director of the National Institutes of Health, and
Mr. Claude A. Allen, Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services, regarding ibogaine have
been sent to me for response.
In your emails, you ask a number of questions concerning the role of the Federal Government in
ibogaine research and scheduling. While anecdotal evidence of treatment successes (such as in
your case) and treatment failures with ibogaine have existed for years, the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) requires that a substantial amount of data be submitted concerning the
safety and efficacy of a product prior to approving it for use as a therapeutic agent. Anecdotal
evidence (positive, negative, or both) does not meet the regulatory requirements of the FDA
under which new treatment agents can be approved.
In 1991, based largely on the information provided by Mr. Howard Lotsof, Dr. Deborah Mash
and others, the Medications Development Division (now the Division of Treatment Research and
Development) of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), created a medications
development project directed towards exploring the potential development of ibogaine. This
occurred at a time when Mr. Lotsof, who owned patents concerning the use of ibogaine as a drug
addiction treatment agent, and the law firm he hired could not find any commercial entity in the
United States (U.S.) willing to license and/or develop ibogaine. As part of this initiative, the
project team carried out research studies addressing various issues including the pharmacology
and toxicology of ibogaine as required by the FDA. Preclinical studies showed that ibogaine
possessed dose related neurotoxic effects in the rat, dog, and monkey including the ability to
cause seizures, neuron losses, and cardiovascular-QT prolongation which has been associated
with an increased risk of ventricular arrhythmia, which may result in fatal arrhythmias. It is
important to note that dose related toxicity alone does not necessarily rule out further
development of a medication. However, a safe dose level must be determined for human use.
This information is critical, as literature exists potentially linking ibogaine to deaths (including
during ceremonial use in Africa).
In 1995, prior to commencing a Phase I clinical trial of ibogaine in opiate dependent human
subjects, a review was held with a panel of outside expert consultants who were charged with
reviewing the available data to help determine whether NIDA should pursue a clinical study with
ibogaine. A number of persons and organizations interested in ibogaine participated in this
Page 2 – Mr. Jason Bursey
review meeting. Mr. Lotsof presented data on the number of subjects he had treated with
ibogaine and their outcomes. In addition to the toxicological findings, the data presented by
Mr. Lotsof (number of treatment successes versus treatment failures, time to relapse) did not
appear to offer increased efficacy over existing methods of opiate detoxification. The majority
opinion of the consultants was that NIDA should not pursue a clinical trial of ibogaine.
Subsequent to NIDA’s decision not to directly perform clinical trials with ibogaine, Dr. Mash
and Mr. Lotsof entered a business agreement concerning the development of ibogaine and
received FDA approval to perform a Phase I study in the U.S. This study was never completed.
Dr. Mash has been administering treatment with ibogaine at the Healing Visions Institute for
Addiction Recovery on the island of St. Kitts.
Thus, although ibogaine is no longer part of NIDA’s directed medications development efforts,
we will continue to fund research projects on ibogaine through grants that receive meritorious
scores in peer review. NIDA continues to make all of the preclinical data it developed (currently
residing as a Drug Master File with the FDA) available to researchers interested in conducting
clinical studies with ibogaine.
Some of the lack of interest in ibogaine may stem from the fact that the drug lacks a composition
of matter patent. Compounds lacking such protection are usually given short shrift by the
pharmaceutical industry as their commercial value is very limited.
Regarding current U.S. scheduling of ibogaine, under U.S. law, psychoactive substances that
meet defined criteria and have no FDA approved medical uses must be placed in Schedule I.
Ibogaine is considered hallucinogenic and thus far has no FDA approved medical use. This does
not mean that medical research cannot be performed with ibogaine or other Schedule I
substances, but researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping requirement
standards that pertain to Schedule I substances. For more information on scheduling, please
contact the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.
I hope that you find this information helpful.
Sincerely,
Nora D. Volkow, M.D.
Director
—————————————————————————————————————————

(Morning Edition, the program which is running this special regularly reads
letters on-air. Email to morning@npr.org) http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1688762for more info.

Dear Mr. Bursey,
Attached is the letter from Dr. Nora D. Volkow, Director of the National
Institute on Drug Abuse, responding to your emails to Dr. Elias Zerhouni and
Mr. Claude Allen regarding ibogaine.  I also sent this letter to you via
mail.

Best regards,

Monglan (Lana) Le
Correspondence System Coordinator
NIDA Executive Secretariat
6001 Executive Blvd., Room 5101, MSC 9585
(301) 443-6618 phone
(301) 443-8756 fax
mle1@nida.nih.gov
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLA…
Date: February 25, 2004 at 12:03:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with Brett. I also hate to see you all waste energy and resources before the episode airs.
As I have said before, CSI is an excellent show and pretty in depth as far as presenting science to the ‘lay persons’ audience.
I encourage you all to watch the episode and then take what you think is the appropriate action.
Reacting to something that hasn’t been shown seems dangerous to me. You may come out as babbling idiots! Ibogaine doesn’t need it’s promising supporters to appear that way!
Peace to all!
Callie

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: February 25, 2004 at 8:54:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It might turn out that bad publicity (paid for by someone else) turns out to be good publicity. A lot of people will at least hear about ibogaine and its anti-addictive properties, perhaps seek it out, seek out the truth, find treatment… The show could also give people warning that using ibogaine improperly can lead to death, and it isn’t likely to be “or injury”.

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Brett
Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS, NOT IN COP SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca and frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting down 9 Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373 South Park Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of an entire Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz Kerry actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back and got more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look at the science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production, and is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script, please fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make Ibogaine available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we are deeply concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing this medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

>>Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and convict who now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force addicts to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell that he became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by CBS,  Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you should treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above information comes from an early draft of the script and details may change before the episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news story to give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine. The following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180
P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAYWITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: February 24, 2004 at 11:56:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

right on – wish i lived in NY so i could attend.  fuck csi, hype and
mediocrity.  do you think there should be an alternative to the kron news
coverage however?

.:n

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS, NOT
IN COP SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca
and frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting
down 9 Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the
East Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373 South
Park Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine
information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of an
entire Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa
Heinz Kerry actually looked at the literature she was given–and came
back and got more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look at
the science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie!
production, and is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with
John Kerry for President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident
distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script,
please fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make
Ibogaine available to the American people as a teatment for
addiction, we are deeply concerned about the potential negative
impact of sensationalizing this medical breakthrough by presenting it
in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and
convict who now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug
Ibogaine to force addicts to face their demons. The treatment
worked so well for Burnell that he became a changed man, not only
kicking his addictions but becoming spiritual as well. But
Burnell’s desire to help others with similar problems led him
intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by
CBS,  Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you
should treat this information as you would any other rumour. The
above information comes from an early draft of the script and details
may change before the episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news
story to give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate
Ibogaine. The following just appeared on a local news show in San
Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180

P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY!
Date: February 24, 2004 at 9:55:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Schedule of New York Protests, Thursday, Feb. 26th:

11:30 AM to 12:45 PM

Rally/Press Conference: NO AIRPLAY WITHOUT FAIRPLAY

@ the Plaza in front of CBS corporate headquarters, 53rd & Madison

CBS DO THE RIGHT THING: FAIR COVERAGE FOR IBOGAINE ON THE NEWS, NOT IN COP SHOWS!

1:30 PM

Rally /Press Conference: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE

@ the Office of Harlin Berger, 55th @ Madison (551 Madison)

Where does a self-proclaimed entheogen enthusiast who does Ayahuasca and frequents the “Burning Man” & other festivals get off shutting down 9 Bleecker St, the only Ibogaine intake for poor addicts on the East Coast?

DO THE RIGHT THING, HARLIN. DON’T GO BACK ON YOUR AGREEMENT!

3:00 PM

Sidewalk Rally/Press: FAIRPLAY FOR IBOGAINE– STOP NADER!

Downstairs in front of the John Kerry for President office–373 South Park Ave, between 27th and 28th Sts.

Independents and Greens Knock Nader for Blowing Off the Ibogaine information, (& later betraying his total ignorance in front of an entire Students for Sensible Drug Policy Confernce)–while Theresa Heinz Kerry actually looked at the literature she was given–and came back and got more!

RALPH NADER QUIT ARGUING FROM ESTABLISHED AUTHORITY — Either look at the science, or DON’T RUN!

(This press conference is a completely independent Yippie! production, and is not coordinated in any way, shape, or form with John Kerry for President)

——————————————-

As regards the forthcoming CSI episode, in response to the evident distortions about Ibogaine that seem to be written into the script, please fax or email various CBS news affiliates the following:

To: szp@cbsnews.com
From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: A little fairness & balance, please

As health activists who’ve worked for 20 years or longer to make Ibogaine available to the American people as a teatment for addiction, we are deeply concerned about the potential negative impact of sensationalizing this medical breakthrough by presenting it in the context of a cop show.

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml

>>Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and convict who now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force addicts to face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell that he became a changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming spiritual as well. But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar problems led him intodangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by CBS,  Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you should treat this information as you would any other rumour. The above information comes from an early draft of the script and details may change before the episode goes to air.

We implore you to see what you can do to present a balanced news story to give the viewing audience  a fair chance to evaluate Ibogaine. The following just appeared on a local news show in San Francisco:
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

I think you will agree this is a much fairer approach.

Dana Beal/Cures Not Wars/212-677-4899/212-677-7180
P.S.: We will distribute the incriminating email!

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?
Date: February 24, 2004 at 6:36:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was J supervised at the time? Seems like an unusual reaction as by 38
hours, it’s good to have a bit of food. What kind of food was it, do you
know?
When patients go more than 72 hours without food, the glucose levels
drop and a person can fall into unconsciousness.

Thanks for the information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

—–Original Message—–
From: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nicks22@onetel.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 8:33 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Hi Marc,

Must be a pretty old newspaper. J died back in Jan 2000 if I recall
correctly, and the inquest was a year later. They put the cause of death
down to “iboga extract, fatal reaction” – J died through choking on his
vomit just after eating his first meal after the treatment. He’d taken
around 6g of Indra iboga extract about 38 hours before.

Because of the death the MCA put Tabernanthe iboga on a list of herbal
preparations they are seeking to control further, but as far as I know
this
hasn’t happened yet, and isn’t likely to for a while. Whether ibogaine
itself will be affected is not clear.

IMO, the main thing to be learned from the tragic event is the need for
constant vigilance of the client throughout the whole treatment,
bathroom
visits included.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:55 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Who was the treatment provider in the UK who screwed up?

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

Re:
PSYCHEDELIC ADDICTION TREATMENT FACES BAN
AFTER HEROIN USER’S DEATH

by Max Daly

A natural psychoactive drug used to treat heroin, methadone, cocaine
and
alcohol addiction faces a UK ban depsite clinical research showing it
has
reduced deadly cravings in scores of patients.

Extracted from the root bark of an African plant, ibogaine is used by
indigenous people to combat fatigue and in spiritual rituals and was
first
used
to treat drug addicts in America in the 1960s.

The most comprehensive study into ibogaine to date is now being
carried
out
with 32 heroin addicts on the Caribbean island of St Kitts. Conducted
by
neurology expert Dr Deborah Mash from Miami University, the research
has
so
far
revealed the drug “has significantly reduced craving for opiates” for
all
patients.

But an inquest resuming this week into the death of a 40-year-old
hepatitus
C-infected heroin addict, who died in London early last year, could
result in
the drug being banned. Ibogaine, taken by the man 40 hours before his
death,
was probably to blame, according to doctors.

The pathologist’s report stated the rare drug was “by far the most
likely
explanation” for his death. During the initial stages of the inquest –
adjourned last month pending data on the effect of ibogaine from Dr
Mash
– the
coroner said the drug should be banned if it is deemed to be the cause
of
death.

The coroner’s verdict could be a world-first. Records show three
people
have
died after taking ibogaine, according to Dr Kenneth Alper, associate
professor
of neurology and psychiatry at the New York School of Medicine. Yet in
each
case, says Alper, ibogaine was not named as cause of death.

Supporters of ibogaine point out current government-funded addiction
treatments
are far from safe. Heroin addicts are prescribed methadone – itself
highly
addictive and implicated in the deaths of more than 200 people in the
UK
each
year.

With ibogaine, the drug works by ‘resetting’ brain functions which
relate to
addiction, enabling patients to avoid powerful withdrawal symptoms –
the
major
barrier to giving up.

Dr Mash, who admits the drug should only be taken under medical
supervision,
said ibogaine’s potential as a safer and more effective alternative to
present
treatments is suffering from a lack of support from authorities in the
US and
Europe. “Addicts desperate for an effective treatment will try to get
help in
any way possible,” she said.

“The lack of government-sanctioned studies has forced this effective
treatment
into underground settings. Many accepted treatments for opiate
detoxification
have led to deaths. With medical supervision, ibogaine is a safe
drug.”

A series of informal trials among more than 300 addicts in Denmark,
Holland,
the Czech Republic and the Caribbean over 10 years produced similar
findings.
Ibogaine is legal in Britain but is classified as an ‘unlicensed
experimental
medicine’. It is a restricted substance in the US, Switzerland, Sweden
and
Belgium.

Shane Collins, of the Green Party drugs group said: “This drug is a
plant
medicine which requires serious research. It offers the potential of
treating
one of the greater ills of society.”


Phil Stovell
South Hampshire, UK

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Reply saying they will Reply : )
Date: February 24, 2004 at 3:18:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From:    McGarey Barbara (NIH/OD) <MCGAREYB@od.nih.gov>
To:    ‘deartheo@ziplip.com’ <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject:    Iboga/Ibogaine Research Funding Priorities
Date:    Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:57:33 -0500

——————————————————————————–

Dear Mr. Bursey:

Your e-mail of February 3, 2004 to Mr. Alex Azar, General Counsel,
Department of Health and Human Services, was referred to me for reply.  I am
the chief of the NIH Branch of the Office of the General Counsel and my
office provides legal support and representation to the National Institutes
of Health (NIH).  I understand that you have already sent similar e-mails to
Deputy Secretary Claude Allen and the NIH Director, Dr. Elias Zerhouni.
Those of us who have received your e-mails are working together and you will
be receiving one response shortly on behalf of the Department of Health and
Human Services.

Best regards,

Barbara M. McGarey, J.D.
Chief, NIH Branch
Public Health Division
Office of the General Counsel
Room 2B-50, NIH Bldg. 31
31 Center Drive., MSC 2111
Bethesda, MD 20892-2111
(301) 496-6043
(301) 402-1034 (fax)
mcgareyb@od.nih.gov

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nicks22@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?
Date: February 24, 2004 at 11:32:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marc,

Must be a pretty old newspaper. J died back in Jan 2000 if I recall
correctly, and the inquest was a year later. They put the cause of death
down to “iboga extract, fatal reaction” – J died through choking on his
vomit just after eating his first meal after the treatment. He’d taken
around 6g of Indra iboga extract about 38 hours before.

Because of the death the MCA put Tabernanthe iboga on a list of herbal
preparations they are seeking to control further, but as far as I know this
hasn’t happened yet, and isn’t likely to for a while. Whether ibogaine
itself will be affected is not clear.

IMO, the main thing to be learned from the tragic event is the need for
constant vigilance of the client throughout the whole treatment, bathroom
visits included.

all the best

Nick

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 5:55 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Who was the treatment provider in the UK who screwed up?

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

Re:
PSYCHEDELIC ADDICTION TREATMENT FACES BAN
AFTER HEROIN USER’S DEATH

by Max Daly

A natural psychoactive drug used to treat heroin, methadone, cocaine and
alcohol addiction faces a UK ban depsite clinical research showing it
has
reduced deadly cravings in scores of patients.

Extracted from the root bark of an African plant, ibogaine is used by
indigenous people to combat fatigue and in spiritual rituals and was
first
used
to treat drug addicts in America in the 1960s.

The most comprehensive study into ibogaine to date is now being carried
out
with 32 heroin addicts on the Caribbean island of St Kitts. Conducted by
neurology expert Dr Deborah Mash from Miami University, the research has
so
far
revealed the drug “has significantly reduced craving for opiates” for
all
patients.

But an inquest resuming this week into the death of a 40-year-old
hepatitus
C-infected heroin addict, who died in London early last year, could
result in
the drug being banned. Ibogaine, taken by the man 40 hours before his
death,
was probably to blame, according to doctors.

The pathologist’s report stated the rare drug was “by far the most
likely
explanation” for his death. During the initial stages of the inquest –
adjourned last month pending data on the effect of ibogaine from Dr Mash
– the
coroner said the drug should be banned if it is deemed to be the cause
of
death.

The coroner’s verdict could be a world-first. Records show three people
have
died after taking ibogaine, according to Dr Kenneth Alper, associate
professor
of neurology and psychiatry at the New York School of Medicine. Yet in
each
case, says Alper, ibogaine was not named as cause of death.

Supporters of ibogaine point out current government-funded addiction
treatments
are far from safe. Heroin addicts are prescribed methadone – itself
highly
addictive and implicated in the deaths of more than 200 people in the UK
each
year.

With ibogaine, the drug works by ‘resetting’ brain functions which
relate to
addiction, enabling patients to avoid powerful withdrawal symptoms – the
major
barrier to giving up.

Dr Mash, who admits the drug should only be taken under medical
supervision,
said ibogaine’s potential as a safer and more effective alternative to
present
treatments is suffering from a lack of support from authorities in the
US and
Europe. “Addicts desperate for an effective treatment will try to get
help in
any way possible,” she said.

“The lack of government-sanctioned studies has forced this effective
treatment
into underground settings. Many accepted treatments for opiate
detoxification
have led to deaths. With medical supervision, ibogaine is a safe drug.”

A series of informal trials among more than 300 addicts in Denmark,
Holland,
the Czech Republic and the Caribbean over 10 years produced similar
findings.
Ibogaine is legal in Britain but is classified as an ‘unlicensed
experimental
medicine’. It is a restricted substance in the US, Switzerland, Sweden
and
Belgium.

Shane Collins, of the Green Party drugs group said: “This drug is a
plant
medicine which requires serious research. It offers the potential of
treating
one of the greater ills of society.”


Phil Stovell
South Hampshire, UK

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice
Date: February 24, 2004 at 10:53:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

I always like to read your mail, no matter what.

If only coca leaf was available at the grosser shop we wouldn’t have
that problem today.
Of course the authorities need more evidence to be able to justify their
war on drug.
I know personally ex-cocaine addicts who are brilliant people. I think
that most people know their limits, but some extremes always spoil it
for the others who have a reasonable recreational use.
Governments are manipulating scientist to cover their assex.

Peace all.

sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 24 februari 2004 14:59
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice

There is also evidence that cocaine use can lead in some cases to heart
attacks and cause weight loss due to impaired appetite. Until now,
however, little has been known about its effects on the brain.<

There’s also a lot of evidence the eating McDonald’s “food” can lead in
many
cases to heart attacks and can cause massive weight gain due to screwed
up
appetite. It causes serious weirdness to brains.
I mean, this gets silly in the long term, and I am not a fan of
cocaine
myself, not any longer anyway. Yes, cocaine is a scary dangerous at
abuse
levels drug, but should we be locking up people to using it? Naw, of
course
not, nor should we be artificially increasing the cost of cocaine
through
price-supporting prohibition.
But then I imagine I’m preaching to the choir here, at least in some
part.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:04 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice

By Robin Yapp

Friday 20 February 2004

Just one cocaine binge can permanently damage long-term memory while
repeated use could wreck a career, it emerged yesterday.

Experts hope the findings will act as a warning to high-flying young
professionals for whom cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice.

A particular risk for the estimated 300,000 regular users of the drug
in
the UK is its detrimental effect on their ability to take in new
information.

Professor Seth Grant, professor of molecular neuroscience at the
University of Edinburgh, said: ‘People taking cocaine give themselves
a
form of molecular brain damage, reducing levels of a key gene by up to
50 per cent.

‘It strikes at the kind of learning which would include, for example,
studying for examinations or anyone in a job who wants to learn
important new things.’

He added: ‘I would not recommend that anyone takes cocaine if they
were
doing a lot of study or holding down a high level job that requires a
lot of thinking.’

The latest research adds to the growing body of evidence about the
effects of illegal drugs on the brain. Last month a University of
Newcastle study showed that another class A drug, Ecstasy, can also
damage long-term memory, while cannabis impairs short-term memory.

There is also evidence that cocaine use can lead in some cases to
heart
attacks and cause weight loss due to impaired appetite. Until now,
however, little has been known about its effects on the brain.

Professor Grant and colleagues at Duke University in North Carolina
and
the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridgeshire tested their
theories by injecting mice with cocaine over several weeks.

They found the drug quickly damaged the gene PSD-95 (postsynaptic
density-95), which is found at the connecting points between different
nerve cells and is critical to learning.

Professor Grant said that in some cases levels of the gene fell by 50
per cent after just a few days. Since the gene has the same function
in
humans and mice, it is likely it would be damaged just as quickly in
humans.

Another expert, Professor John Henry, of Imperial College London,
said:
‘The vast majority of users are under 40, and this study shows why
cocaine is particularly bad news for young people.’

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice
Date: February 24, 2004 at 8:58:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is also evidence that cocaine use can lead in some cases to heart
attacks and cause weight loss due to impaired appetite. Until now,
however, little has been known about its effects on the brain.<

There’s also a lot of evidence the eating McDonald’s “food” can lead in many
cases to heart attacks and can cause massive weight gain due to screwed up
appetite. It causes serious weirdness to brains.
I mean, this gets silly in the long term, and I am not a fan of cocaine
myself, not any longer anyway. Yes, cocaine is a scary dangerous at abuse
levels drug, but should we be locking up people to using it? Naw, of course
not, nor should we be artificially increasing the cost of cocaine through
price-supporting prohibition.
But then I imagine I’m preaching to the choir here, at least in some
part.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 6:04 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice

By Robin Yapp

Friday 20 February 2004

Just one cocaine binge can permanently damage long-term memory while
repeated use could wreck a career, it emerged yesterday.

Experts hope the findings will act as a warning to high-flying young
professionals for whom cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice.

A particular risk for the estimated 300,000 regular users of the drug in
the UK is its detrimental effect on their ability to take in new
information.

Professor Seth Grant, professor of molecular neuroscience at the
University of Edinburgh, said: ‘People taking cocaine give themselves a
form of molecular brain damage, reducing levels of a key gene by up to
50 per cent.

‘It strikes at the kind of learning which would include, for example,
studying for examinations or anyone in a job who wants to learn
important new things.’

He added: ‘I would not recommend that anyone takes cocaine if they were
doing a lot of study or holding down a high level job that requires a
lot of thinking.’

The latest research adds to the growing body of evidence about the
effects of illegal drugs on the brain. Last month a University of
Newcastle study showed that another class A drug, Ecstasy, can also
damage long-term memory, while cannabis impairs short-term memory.

There is also evidence that cocaine use can lead in some cases to heart
attacks and cause weight loss due to impaired appetite. Until now,
however, little has been known about its effects on the brain.

Professor Grant and colleagues at Duke University in North Carolina and
the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridgeshire tested their
theories by injecting mice with cocaine over several weeks.

They found the drug quickly damaged the gene PSD-95 (postsynaptic
density-95), which is found at the connecting points between different
nerve cells and is critical to learning.

Professor Grant said that in some cases levels of the gene fell by 50
per cent after just a few days. Since the gene has the same function in
humans and mice, it is likely it would be damaged just as quickly in
humans.

Another expert, Professor John Henry, of Imperial College London, said:
‘The vast majority of users are under 40, and this study shows why
cocaine is particularly bad news for young people.’

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice
Date: February 24, 2004 at 6:04:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

By Robin Yapp

Friday 20 February 2004

Just one cocaine binge can permanently damage long-term memory while
repeated use could wreck a career, it emerged yesterday.

Experts hope the findings will act as a warning to high-flying young
professionals for whom cocaine is the fashionable drug of choice.

A particular risk for the estimated 300,000 regular users of the drug in
the UK is its detrimental effect on their ability to take in new
information.

Professor Seth Grant, professor of molecular neuroscience at the
University of Edinburgh, said: ‘People taking cocaine give themselves a
form of molecular brain damage, reducing levels of a key gene by up to
50 per cent.

‘It strikes at the kind of learning which would include, for example,
studying for examinations or anyone in a job who wants to learn
important new things.’

He added: ‘I would not recommend that anyone takes cocaine if they were
doing a lot of study or holding down a high level job that requires a
lot of thinking.’

The latest research adds to the growing body of evidence about the
effects of illegal drugs on the brain. Last month a University of
Newcastle study showed that another class A drug, Ecstasy, can also
damage long-term memory, while cannabis impairs short-term memory.

There is also evidence that cocaine use can lead in some cases to heart
attacks and cause weight loss due to impaired appetite. Until now,
however, little has been known about its effects on the brain.

Professor Grant and colleagues at Duke University in North Carolina and
the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Cambridgeshire tested their
theories by injecting mice with cocaine over several weeks.

They found the drug quickly damaged the gene PSD-95 (postsynaptic
density-95), which is found at the connecting points between different
nerve cells and is critical to learning.

Professor Grant said that in some cases levels of the gene fell by 50
per cent after just a few days. Since the gene has the same function in
humans and mice, it is likely it would be damaged just as quickly in
humans.

Another expert, Professor John Henry, of Imperial College London, said:
‘The vast majority of users are under 40, and this study shows why
cocaine is particularly bad news for young people.’

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] UK government drugs strategy
Date: February 24, 2004 at 3:07:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Guardian

Seven doctors from a world-renowned private centre specialising in the
treatment of heroin addicts were accused yesterday of prescribing drugs
in an inappropriate manner.
The nature, quantity and combination of the drugs handed out by doctors
at the Stapleford Centre was flawed, the General Medical Council was
told yesterday.

The GMC’s professional misconduct committee was told that one addict
treated by the founder of the centre, Colin Brewer, 62, choked to death
on his vomit after undergoing a “DIY home detox” in which he was
prescribed 16 drugs.

Another became confused and violent towards his girlfriend and took an
overdose, it was claimed. Doctors at the centre also allegedly
prescribed drugs without taking into account one woman’s pregnancy and
another’s anorexia.

Some of the doctors are accused of issuing such large quantities of
drugs that they could be sold on or of not establishing if a patient had
the legitimate means to pay for his or her drugs, which can cost up to
£200 a week.

The hearing, the biggest in the GMC’s history, will focus attention on a
fundamental clash over how drug addicts should be treated.

As revealed in the Guardian last week, the Stapleford centre, in
Belgravia, central London, and Stapleford Tawney in Essex, has won
plaudits for its liberal approach to treating addicts. Its technique of
giving users “maintenance prescriptions” of the heroin substitute
methadone, which is intended to take addicts out of the illegal drugs
market and allow them to lead normal, crime-free lives, has been
applauded.

The technique is legal but tends to be resisted in the public sector,
where the preference is for drugs such as methadone to be used on a
short term basis to wean patients off illegal substances.

The way the doctors treated 15 patients, ranging in age from 21 to 54,
will be examined over the next two months. One of the most striking
cases was that of a 29-year-old man identified only as GS, who arrived
at the centre with his mother in August 2001. He was seen by a nurse and
then by Dr Brewer.

GS agreed to undergo a “DIY detox” at his parents’ home. He was
prescribed 16 drugs and his mother was given written instructions about
the process.

Four days later she phoned to say her son was not sleeping and Dr Brewer
was said to have prescribed another drug. But he allegedly did not tell
GS’s mother that the new drug was to replace the old ones. GS took both
and on September 1 died in his sleep, choking on his vomit.

The “charge sheet” claimed that the “DIY detox” should only be performed
in a setting where there is “trained nursing and medical care”. It also
claimed the instructions Dr Brewer provided were “complex, unclear,
confusing and inadequate”.

Also under scrutiny will be the treatment of a 54-year-old woman known
as ST. She suffered narcoleptic episodes, depression and mood swings.
During her treatment Dr Brewer is alleged to have learned she had driven
while under the influence of drugs but failed to alert the authorities.

Dr Brewer was also accused of interfering with potential witnesses in
the disciplinary proceedings. He allegedly wrote to two doctors who had
provided reports critical of two of his colleagues at the Stapleford
Centre asking them to withdraw their comments.

One heroin addict and patient of the centre, Ian Harris, 52, turned up
to the hearing yesterday to register his support.

Mr Harris, of Dagenham, Essex, warned that people could die if the
maintenance treatments stopped. He said: “They’ve given me some sort of
stability in my life. I’m able to function without withdrawal symptoms.”

Mr Harris, who is now on 285mg of methadone a day, added: “If the centre
is forced to close down the reality for many is they will once again be
at the mercy of drug dealers.”

Dr Brewer is accused of serious professional misconduct in relation to
13 patients stretching back to May 1990.

The other six doctors are Anthony Haines, who is accused in relation to
two patients, Hugh Kindness (four patients), Nicolette Mervitz (one),
Martin O’Rawe (one), Ronald Tovey (six) and Timothy Willocks (two). All
deny wrongdoing.

The hearing continues.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UK government drugs strategy
Date: February 23, 2004 at 2:37:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/18/04 6:51:16 PM, epoptica@freeuk.com writes:

<< This is a terrible development in the UK. Along with the imminent banning
of

ibogaine things are not looking good. Incidentally does anyone think it is

worth fighting this ibogaine ban and if so can anyone offer any advice???? >>

Hattie,

This header from the Independent appeared today,

Drug treatment, random tests and the urgent need to find new ways of dealing
with addiction

23 February 2004

The disciplinary hearing today of the General Medical Council, to examine the
cases of seven doctors at the private drug treatment centre, the Stapleford
Clinic in Essex, has profound implications for the future of drugs treatment in
the UK. It comes after the disclosure by the Prime Minister that schools are
to be allowed to conduct random drugs tests on pupils. The two issues are, of
course, interlinked, since they both revolve around the intractable problem of
how we should deal with drugs.
***************

The reality I fear is that as no pharmaceutical company will proceed with the
development of ibogaine, the ability to stop its prohibition is close to nil.
However, the publicity being given the attack on the medical establishment
treating chemically dependent patients offers a podium from which to inform the
government and the public of ibogaine’s’ utility to 1) assist patients is
stopping drug use as well as 2) stabilizing patients who cannot stop drug use.

My suggestion is that you use the media attention being given to the
prosecution of the doctors at Stapelford to gain access to the media for ibogaine.

In any case, if you cannot stop the prohibitionists from closing Stapelford
you will see increased deaths, increased crime and a growing prison population.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] life style.
Date: February 23, 2004 at 1:27:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Humphry Osmond, 86, Who Sought Medicinal Value in Psychedelic Drugs,
Dies

February 22, 2004
By DOUGLAS MARTIN

Humphry Osmond, the psychiatrist who coined the word “psychedelic” for
the drugs to which he introduced the writer and essayist Aldous Huxley,
died on Feb. 6 at his home in Appleton, Wis. He was 86.

The cause was cardiac arrhythmia, said his daughter
Euphemia Blackburn of Appleton, where Dr. Osmond moved to
four years ago.

Dr. Osmond entered the history of the counterculture by supplying
hallucinogenic drugs to Huxley, who ascribed mystical significance to
them in his playfully thoughtful, widely read book “The Doors of
Perception,” from which the rock group the Doors took its name.

But in his own view and in that of some other scientists,
Dr. Osmond was most important for inspiring researchers who
saw drugs like L.S.D. and mescaline as potential treatments
for psychological ailments. By the mid-1960’s, medical
journals had published more than 1,000 papers on the
subject, and Dr. Osmond’s work using L.S.D. to treat
alcoholics drew particular interest.

“Osmond was a pioneer,” Dr. Charles Grob, a professor of psychiatry at
the University of California School of Medicine, said in an interview.
“He published some fascinating data.”

In one study, in the late 1950’s, when Dr. Osmond gave
L.S.D. to alcoholics in Alcoholics Anonymous who had failed
to quit drinking, about half had not had a drink after a
year.

“No one has ever duplicated the success rate of that
study,” said Dr. John H. Halpern, associate director of substance abuse
research at the McLean Hospital Alcohol and Drug Abuse Research Center
in Belmont, Mass., and an instructor at Harvard.

Dr. Halpern added that no one really tried. Other studies
used different methodology, and the combination of flagrant youthful
abuse of hallucinogens; the propagation of a flashy, otherworldly drug
culture by Timothy Leary; and reports of health dangers from
hallucinogens (some of which Dr. Halpern said were wrong or overstated)
eventually doomed almost all research into psychedelic drugs.

Research on hallucinogens as a treatment for mental ills
has re-emerged in recent years, in small projects at places like the
University of Arizona, the University of South Carolina, the University
of California, Los Angeles, and Harvard. Though such research was always
legal, regulatory, financial and other obstacles had largely ended it.

Huxley’s reading about Dr. Osmond’s research into
similarities between schizophrenia and mescaline
intoxication led him to volunteer to try the drug. Dr.
Osmond agreed, but later wrote that he “did not relish the possibility,
however remote, of being the man who drove Aldous Huxley mad.”

So in 1953, a day Dr. Osmond described 12 years later as “delicious May
morning,” he dropped a pinch of silvery white mescaline crystals in a
glass of water and handed it to Huxley, the author of “Brave New World,”
which described a totalitarian society in which people are controlled by
drugs.

“Within two and a half hours I could see that it was
acting, and after three I could see that all would go
well,” Dr. Osmond wrote. He said he felt “much relieved.”

Dr. Osmond first offered his new term, psychedelic, at a meeting of the
New York Academy of Sciences in 1957. He said the word meant “mind
manifesting” and called it “clear, euphonious and uncontaminated by
other associations.”

Huxley had sent Dr. Osmond a rhyme with his own word
choice: “To make this trivial world sublime, take half a
gram of phanerothyme.” (Thymos means soul in Greek.)

Rejecting that, Dr. Osmond replied: “To fathom Hell or soar angelic,
just take a pinch of psychedelic.”

Lester Grinspoon and James B. Bakalar in their 1979 book “Psychedelic
Drugs Reconsidered” pointed out that by the rules for combining Greek
roots, the word should have been psychodelic. They also said that even
in the late 70’s, psychedelic had mostly been replaced by
hallucinogenic, a vocabulary shift they said Dr. Osmond himself made.

In addition to his daughter Euphemia, Dr. Osmond is
survived by his wife, Jane; a second daughter, Helen
Swanson of Surrey, England; a son, Julian, of New Orleans;
a sister, Dorothy Gale of Devon, England; and five grandchildren.

Humphry Fortescue Osmond was born on July 1, 1917, in
Surrey. He intended to be a banker, but attended Guy’s
Hospital Medical School of the University of London. In
World War II, he was a surgeon-lieutenant in the Navy,
where he trained to become a ship’s psychiatrist.

At St. George’s Hospital in London, he and a colleague,
John R. Smythies, developed the hypothesis that
schizophrenia was a form of self-intoxication caused by the body’s
mistakenly producing its own L.S.D.-like compounds.

When their theory was not embraced by the British mental
health establishment, the two doctors moved to Canada to continue their
research at Saskatchewan Hospital in Weyburn. There, they developed the
idea, not widely accepted, that no one should treat schizophrenics who
had not personally experienced schizophrenia.

“This it is possible to do quite easily by taking
mescaline,” they wrote.

Huxley read about this work and volunteered to be studied.
The research also directly inspired other scientists, Dr. Halpern said.

“There was a certain point where almost every major psychiatrist wanted
to do hallucinogen research,” Dr. Halpern said, adding that in the early
1960’s, it was recommended that psychiatric residents take a dose to
understand psychosis better.

Perhaps the most famous psychedelic researcher was Dr.
Oscar Janiger, a Beverly Hills psychiatrist, who gave
L.S.D. to Cary Grant, Jack Nicholson and, again, Huxley.

Dr. Halpern said that today’s understanding of serotonin, a
neurotransmitter important in causing and alleviating depression, grew
out of research into the effect of L.S.D. on the brain. L.S.D. and
serotonin are chemically similar.

Dr. Osmond’s most important work involved alcoholism
research, done with Abram Hoffer, a colleague at Weyburn. Originally,
they thought L.S.D. would terrify alcoholics by causing symptoms akin to
delirium tremens. Instead, they found it opened them to radical personal
transformation.

“One conception of psychedelic theory for alcoholics is
that L.S.D. can truly accomplish the transcendence that is repeatedly
and unsuccessfully sought in drunkenness,” “Psychedelic Drugs
Reconsidered” suggested in 1979.

Bill Wilson, a co-founder of Alcoholics Anonymous, met Dr. Osmond and
took L.S.D. himself, strongly agreeing that it could help many
alcoholics.

As psychedelic research became increasingly difficult, Dr. Osmond left
Canada to become director of the Bureau of Research in Neurology and
Psychiatry at the New Jersey Psychiatric Institute in Princeton, and
then a professor of psychology at the University of Alabama in
Birmingham. He mainly studied schizophrenia but was disappointed he
could not pursue his research into hallucinogens, Mrs. Blackburn, his
daughter, said.

“I’m sure he was very saddened by it,” she said. “It could
have helped millions of people.”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] was Jane now vectoring
Date: February 23, 2004 at 3:44:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, Sara, and I forgot to say thanks to Vector Vector, my avatar  of open-mindedness!  Jane

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] strange people.
Date: February 23, 2004 at 4:19:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe there is here “a strange” group of people,
But look what “normal” looks like.

Alone, all one.

S.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane
Date: February 23, 2004 at 2:57:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jane,

It is very beautiful what you wrote!

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Jellking [mailto:jellking@yahoo.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 23 februari 2004 3:33
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

Dear Sarah, Carla, et al,   Thanks for your responses. I DO most certainly honor Howard and I’m sorry if it sounded as if I don’t.  I honor the fact, also, that this sacred plant is going to do its work through all who care, and all who partake.  My ibogaine poem, “The Drumming of Eboka,” acknowledges that this plant SEEKS us, not anybody, but US, “those who wish to entwine.”  I honor Howard, indeed, and also both of you, Dana, Patrick, Eric, Brett, Nick, Marc and all associated with this list, and the many who never have been in this small circle of the universe but know Bwiti.

I am not immune from or above induling in the petulant anger or even the “righteous” anger that often rocks our boat, but I do feel sincerely that the incredible, more than cosmic, chance to incarnate in a time and place in which eboka, thanks to Howard, yes, is brought to western consciousness is a blessing that transcends all consciousness of favors asked and received, and not only for the addiction help properties.  We are ALL doing our part to weave human consciousness in such a way as to  include the truth of diversity, and in my very humble opinion, most of you are doing it really well. I think it is UTTERLY appropriate that there are many many venues, suppliers, philosophies, etc. re ibogaine.  I don’t think there should be “rules.”   Biodiversity is actually the heart of my personal agenda…….this plant called me, and this is a complicated topic,which I maybe will explore further with you all, if there is! any interest.  In the meantime, peace and love, Jane

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 10:13:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/23/04 12:17:35 AM, carlambarnes@yahoo.com writes:

The only part of the show I
found tacky was Dr. Mash calling Howard Lotsof some
junkie who wanted to get high and giving no credit,
not even mentioning his name 🙁

Tacky seems a good description.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: David Varossi <dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 10:05:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My opinion exactly!

Cheers mates
David

— CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote: > ?????????? Man, this
is one strange group of
people!??????????
Me, unsubscribe? Hell no, I might miss something!

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger – Communicate instantly…”Ping”
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jane
Date: February 22, 2004 at 9:33:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sarah, Carla, et al,   Thanks for your responses. I DO most certainly honor Howard and I’m sorry if it sounded as if I don’t.  I honor the fact, also, that this sacred plant is going to do its work through all who care, and all who partake.  My ibogaine poem, “The Drumming of Eboka,” acknowledges that this plant SEEKS us, not anybody, but US, “those who wish to entwine.”  I honor Howard, indeed, and also both of you, Dana, Patrick, Eric, Brett, Nick, Marc and all associated with this list, and the many who never have been in this small circle of the universe but know Bwiti.

I am not immune from or above induling in the petulant anger or even the “righteous” anger that often rocks our boat, but I do feel sincerely that the incredible, more than cosmic, chance to incarnate in a time and place in which eboka, thanks to Howard, yes, is brought to western consciousness is a blessing that transcends all consciousness of favors asked and received, and not only for the addiction help properties.  We are ALL doing our part to weave human consciousness in such a way as to  include the truth of diversity, and in my very humble opinion, most of you are doing it really well. I think it is UTTERLY appropriate that there are many many venues, suppliers, philosophies, etc. re ibogaine.  I don’t think there should be “rules.”   Biodiversity is actually the heart of my personal agenda…….this plant called me, and this is a complicated topic,which I maybe will explore further with you all, if there is any interest.  In the meantime, peace and love, Jane

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 8:04:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

?????????? Man, this is one strange group of people!??????????
Me, unsubscribe? Hell no, I might miss something!

From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 7:53:54 PM EST
To: digital@phantom.com, dmash@newssun.med.miami.edu

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Wake up and get Bush out! Ibogaine for everyone but get Bush out Get
Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush
Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out
Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get
Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush
Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out
Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get Bush Out Get
Bush Out Get Bush Out

Go superfreak and evil witch! Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.g

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:50:46 -0800 gboy@hush.com wrote:
Great show! Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult
of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality!

Great acting! Dr. Mash smart, evil, arrogant, Patrick, smart, evil,
arrogant,
two of them togther: human! Patrick! That’s the greatest role you’ve
ever played!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now do something about getting Bush out of the whitehouse!

Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie!
Go
Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go
Yippie!
Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie!
Go
Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go
Yippie!
Go Yippie!

.g

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:16:45 -0800 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I agree with alot of what you said about everyone,
nobody gives credit to anyone else in any ibogaine
interview I’ve seen it is always everything about
themselves. Deborah and Patrick did the same thing but
they only did a great job of it 😉 What I think is
more then a little disgusting is when treatment
providers let the camera crew film someone who is on
ibogaine that always makes my stomach turn 🙁

It was a great show and it is the first time I’ve seen
both of them without all the arrogance, they did make
each other look human 🙂 The only part of the show I
found tacky was Dr. Mash calling Howard Lotsof some
junkie who wanted to get high and giving no credit,
not even mentioning his name 🙁

Carla B

— zeke@hush.com wrote:
I’m putting this on the list after sending
private email to both
mash and patric. Mash writes me a self righteous
reply and Patric ignores
his email and doesn’t say anything no news there
right.
It would be easier to write if there was a
right or wrong but
looking at the people on this list and the way they
act and I do not
mean the addicts, I’m talking about the treatment
people, the most pathetic
thing is the two of you did the best ibogaine story
that’s come out in
years. Besides this and JAMA what has been in the
media about ibogaine
in the last two years is at the level of the
national enquirer and nobody
pays attention to it. I’m looking online and I see
that ibogaine.net
went from being dead and having a hit rate of below
1 million to where
it’s gone in two days, it’s at 30,000 because that
‘journalist’ who broke
the Monica Lewinsky story put ‘Hallucinogen that
cures addiction’ on
the front page of his site.
Both of you are assholes. Patric you know
the real story behind
ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but
you keep on protecting
her and lying for her. You make her look like mother
Theresa. I watch
this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine
is dangerous lady,
the two of you make each other look human and you
lay on the shit so
thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for
you. I hope both
of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using
you. Go on Patric
flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash
registers ring all
over her over priced treatment. I love the links on
the site, you’ve
removed any content that had any value and thrown it
off the site and
link to this
http://www.ibogaine.net/links.html
Laser hair removal, work at home businesses and
treatment pimps. When
is the used car lot coming?
It’s so funny how the man who invented the
term ‘Treatment Pimp’
is promoting it right now. Everything changes when
you get paid right?
I’ve kept almost everything I said in email
out of this message
my purpose isn’t to put even more dirt out there I
think Steven Anker
and Jerry Stahl with CSI are about to all sue each
other over libel and
slander so there’s no need. Sara maybe they need
some shrooms and to
smoke cannabis instead.
Patric I have less disappointment over you
because you’ve done
all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest
thing is you are
a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your
experience. People
are listening, especially when you flash your arm,
you should have it
framed. It’s too bad that instead of saying the
truth you and Mash have
your mutual admiration society and I won’t follow
that up with everything
else I hear about the two of you but it is too bad
that both of you aren’t
more like the people you play on TV.
Patric you’re lucky that you can communicate
because if you couldn’t,
then Mash wouldn’t care about you either. Nobody
who has ever had anything
to do with her has ended up with anything except
lawsuits and broken
promises, except for you. Because you never shut up
and people listen
to you. Lucky you.
You’re both so full of shit, you can go
exploit each other and
ibogaine forever. Great gift to the whole world. I
wish I could find
more anger but at least she knows the science and
you know the experience.
I wish I could find a better answer but there isn’t
one with anyone involved
with ibogaine, you’re all interested in the same
thing, your own egos,
Patrick and Debrah are only better at pimping
themselves.
Sara it’s too bad that you’re right about so
many people and
things.
I pray Stan Glick comes through with
something, because there
is no other scientist working on anything, only a
group of self promoting
entertainers.

bye
zeke

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————-

———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————-

———-=[/

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.3

wkYEARECAAYFAkA5TiIACgkQxuwtmNNEJvRgcgCgvzwrkCWeqkvimDZMbdMod1TVRjwA
n1a39NjenXM/qIcLxbMj2mmTVays
=mudb
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: <gboy@hush.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 7:50:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Great show! Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality Cult of Personality
Cult of Personality Cult of Personality!

Great acting! Dr. Mash smart, evil, arrogant, Patrick, smart, evil, arrogant,
two of them togther: human! Patrick! That’s the greatest role you’ve
ever played!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now do something about getting Bush out of the whitehouse!

Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go
Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie!
Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go
Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie! Go Yippie!
Go Yippie!

.g

On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:16:45 -0800 Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I agree with alot of what you said about everyone,
nobody gives credit to anyone else in any ibogaine
interview I’ve seen it is always everything about
themselves. Deborah and Patrick did the same thing but
they only did a great job of it 😉 What I think is
more then a little disgusting is when treatment
providers let the camera crew film someone who is on
ibogaine that always makes my stomach turn 🙁

It was a great show and it is the first time I’ve seen
both of them without all the arrogance, they did make
each other look human 🙂 The only part of the show I
found tacky was Dr. Mash calling Howard Lotsof some
junkie who wanted to get high and giving no credit,
not even mentioning his name 🙁

Carla B

— zeke@hush.com wrote:
I’m putting this on the list after sending
private email to both
mash and patric. Mash writes me a self righteous
reply and Patric ignores
his email and doesn’t say anything no news there
right.
It would be easier to write if there was a
right or wrong but
looking at the people on this list and the way they
act and I do not
mean the addicts, I’m talking about the treatment
people, the most pathetic
thing is the two of you did the best ibogaine story
that’s come out in
years. Besides this and JAMA what has been in the
media about ibogaine
in the last two years is at the level of the
national enquirer and nobody
pays attention to it. I’m looking online and I see
that ibogaine.net
went from being dead and having a hit rate of below
1 million to where
it’s gone in two days, it’s at 30,000 because that
‘journalist’ who broke
the Monica Lewinsky story put ‘Hallucinogen that
cures addiction’ on
the front page of his site.
Both of you are assholes. Patric you know
the real story behind
ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but
you keep on protecting
her and lying for her. You make her look like mother
Theresa. I watch
this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine
is dangerous lady,
the two of you make each other look human and you
lay on the shit so
thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for
you. I hope both
of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using
you. Go on Patric
flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash
registers ring all
over her over priced treatment. I love the links on
the site, you’ve
removed any content that had any value and thrown it
off the site and
link to this
http://www.ibogaine.net/links.html
Laser hair removal, work at home businesses and
treatment pimps. When
is the used car lot coming?
It’s so funny how the man who invented the
term ‘Treatment Pimp’
is promoting it right now. Everything changes when
you get paid right?
I’ve kept almost everything I said in email
out of this message
my purpose isn’t to put even more dirt out there I
think Steven Anker
and Jerry Stahl with CSI are about to all sue each
other over libel and
slander so there’s no need. Sara maybe they need
some shrooms and to
smoke cannabis instead.
Patric I have less disappointment over you
because you’ve done
all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest
thing is you are
a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your
experience. People
are listening, especially when you flash your arm,
you should have it
framed. It’s too bad that instead of saying the
truth you and Mash have
your mutual admiration society and I won’t follow
that up with everything
else I hear about the two of you but it is too bad
that both of you aren’t
more like the people you play on TV.
Patric you’re lucky that you can communicate
because if you couldn’t,
then Mash wouldn’t care about you either. Nobody
who has ever had anything
to do with her has ended up with anything except
lawsuits and broken
promises, except for you. Because you never shut up
and people listen
to you. Lucky you.
You’re both so full of shit, you can go
exploit each other and
ibogaine forever. Great gift to the whole world. I
wish I could find
more anger but at least she knows the science and
you know the experience.
I wish I could find a better answer but there isn’t
one with anyone involved
with ibogaine, you’re all interested in the same
thing, your own egos,
Patrick and Debrah are only better at pimping
themselves.
Sara it’s too bad that you’re right about so
many people and
things.
I pray Stan Glick comes through with
something, because there
is no other scientist working on anything, only a
group of self promoting
entertainers.

bye
zeke

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify
Version: Hush 2.3

wkYEARECAAYFAkA5TWcACgkQxuwtmNNEJvT7HgCgrGW7Trcg99MjHUXBmPod3384SS0A
oLNl0NkKtcrC5hBYy6Umoypa8YHp
=U8Ra
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 7:16:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree with alot of what you said about everyone,
nobody gives credit to anyone else in any ibogaine
interview I’ve seen it is always everything about
themselves. Deborah and Patrick did the same thing but
they only did a great job of it 😉 What I think is
more then a little disgusting is when treatment
providers let the camera crew film someone who is on
ibogaine that always makes my stomach turn 🙁

It was a great show and it is the first time I’ve seen
both of them without all the arrogance, they did make
each other look human 🙂 The only part of the show I
found tacky was Dr. Mash calling Howard Lotsof some
junkie who wanted to get high and giving no credit,
not even mentioning his name 🙁

Carla B

— zeke@hush.com wrote:
I’m putting this on the list after sending
private email to both
mash and patric. Mash writes me a self righteous
reply and Patric ignores
his email and doesn’t say anything no news there
right.
It would be easier to write if there was a
right or wrong but
looking at the people on this list and the way they
act and I do not
mean the addicts, I’m talking about the treatment
people, the most pathetic
thing is the two of you did the best ibogaine story
that’s come out in
years. Besides this and JAMA what has been in the
media about ibogaine
in the last two years is at the level of the
national enquirer and nobody
pays attention to it. I’m looking online and I see
that ibogaine.net
went from being dead and having a hit rate of below
1 million to where
it’s gone in two days, it’s at 30,000 because that
‘journalist’ who broke
the Monica Lewinsky story put ‘Hallucinogen that
cures addiction’ on
the front page of his site.
Both of you are assholes. Patric you know
the real story behind
ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but
you keep on protecting
her and lying for her. You make her look like mother
Theresa. I watch
this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine
is dangerous lady,
the two of you make each other look human and you
lay on the shit so
thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for
you. I hope both
of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using
you. Go on Patric
flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash
registers ring all
over her over priced treatment. I love the links on
the site, you’ve
removed any content that had any value and thrown it
off the site and
link to this
http://www.ibogaine.net/links.html
Laser hair removal, work at home businesses and
treatment pimps. When
is the used car lot coming?
It’s so funny how the man who invented the
term ‘Treatment Pimp’
is promoting it right now. Everything changes when
you get paid right?
I’ve kept almost everything I said in email
out of this message
my purpose isn’t to put even more dirt out there I
think Steven Anker
and Jerry Stahl with CSI are about to all sue each
other over libel and
slander so there’s no need. Sara maybe they need
some shrooms and to
smoke cannabis instead.
Patric I have less disappointment over you
because you’ve done
all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest
thing is you are
a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your
experience. People
are listening, especially when you flash your arm,
you should have it
framed. It’s too bad that instead of saying the
truth you and Mash have
your mutual admiration society and I won’t follow
that up with everything
else I hear about the two of you but it is too bad
that both of you aren’t
more like the people you play on TV.
Patric you’re lucky that you can communicate
because if you couldn’t,
then Mash wouldn’t care about you either. Nobody
who has ever had anything
to do with her has ended up with anything except
lawsuits and broken
promises, except for you. Because you never shut up
and people listen
to you. Lucky you.
You’re both so full of shit, you can go
exploit each other and
ibogaine forever. Great gift to the whole world. I
wish I could find
more anger but at least she knows the science and
you know the experience.
I wish I could find a better answer but there isn’t
one with anyone involved
with ibogaine, you’re all interested in the same
thing, your own egos,
Patrick and Debrah are only better at pimping
themselves.
Sara it’s too bad that you’re right about so
many people and
things.
I pray Stan Glick comes through with
something, because there
is no other scientist working on anything, only a
group of self promoting
entertainers.

bye
zeke

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <zeke@hush.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fuck you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 22, 2004 at 6:34:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m putting this on the list after sending private email to both
mash and patric. Mash writes me a self righteous reply and Patric ignores
his email and doesn’t say anything no news there right.
It would be easier to write if there was a right or wrong but
looking at the people on this list and the way they act and I do not
mean the addicts, I’m talking about the treatment people, the most pathetic
thing is the two of you did the best ibogaine story that’s come out in
years. Besides this and JAMA what has been in the media about ibogaine
in the last two years is at the level of the national enquirer and nobody
pays attention to it. I’m looking online and I see that ibogaine.net
went from being dead and having a hit rate of below 1 million to where
it’s gone in two days, it’s at 30,000 because that ‘journalist’ who broke
the Monica Lewinsky story put ‘Hallucinogen that cures addiction’ on
the front page of his site.
Both of you are assholes. Patric you know the real story behind
ibogaine instead of Mash’s self promotional hype but you keep on protecting
her and lying for her. You make her look like mother Theresa. I watch
this and I don’t believe it, instead of the ibogaine is dangerous lady,
the two of you make each other look human and you lay on the shit so
thick you have the reporter giving the warnings for you. I hope both
of you end up with what you deserve and she’s using you. Go on Patric
flash your arm to the whole world and make the cash registers ring all
over her over priced treatment. I love the links on the site, you’ve
removed any content that had any value and thrown it off the site and
link to this
http://www.ibogaine.net/links.html
Laser hair removal, work at home businesses and treatment pimps. When
is the used car lot coming?
It’s so funny how the man who invented the term ‘Treatment Pimp’
is promoting it right now. Everything changes when you get paid right?
I’ve kept almost everything I said in email out of this message
my purpose isn’t to put even more dirt out there I think Steven Anker
and Jerry Stahl with CSI are about to all sue each other over libel and
slander so there’s no need. Sara maybe they need some shrooms and to
smoke cannabis instead.
Patric I have less disappointment over you because you’ve done
all of it, you represent who you are and the saddest thing is you are
a incredible communicator. Writing, talking, your experience. People
are listening, especially when you flash your arm, you should have it
framed. It’s too bad that instead of saying the truth you and Mash have
your mutual admiration society and I won’t follow that up with everything
else I hear about the two of you but it is too bad that both of you aren’t
more like the people you play on TV.
Patric you’re lucky that you can communicate because if you couldn’t,
then Mash wouldn’t care about you either. Nobody who has ever had anything
to do with her has ended up with anything except lawsuits and broken
promises, except for you. Because you never shut up and people listen
to you. Lucky you.
You’re both so full of shit, you can go exploit each other and
ibogaine forever. Great gift to the whole world. I wish I could find
more anger but at least she knows the science and you know the experience.
I wish I could find a better answer but there isn’t one with anyone involved
with ibogaine, you’re all interested in the same thing, your own egos,
Patrick and Debrah are only better at pimping themselves.
Sara it’s too bad that you’re right about so many people and
things.
I pray Stan Glick comes through with something, because there
is no other scientist working on anything, only a group of self promoting
entertainers.

bye
zeke

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 22, 2004 at 6:27:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Generally my own personal list of blood/liver cleansers/detoxifiers
can include (mostly fresh and in salads or in tea form):

I have recently heard about a “liver/gallbladder cleanse’ that
involves triggering the liver and gallbladder to wash themselves
by expelling all the available bile. It sounds like an interesting
experience (feeling soft crystals of cholesterol being flushed
through one’s bile ducts). I don’t know how much of this can be
for real:

…the most simple way to start curing acne, high cholesterol,
eczema, psoriasis, asthma, allergies, gallstones, food intolerance,
shoulder pain, abdominal pain, upper back pain, arm pain, gallstones
attack, liver pain, gallbladder pain, hypertension, cardiovascular
diseases, heartburn, bloating, inflammatory bowel disease IBD, IBS,
colitis, constipation, cancer, AIDS, MS, FMS, MSC, CFIDS/CFS,
Parkinson’s, Alzheimer’s disease, epilepsy, seizures, osteoporosis,
angina pectoris…

but here’s the info for anyone who wants to investigate:

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/

Bill

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ignorant Non-Sense
Date: February 22, 2004 at 5:08:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hypodermic pin cushion
Barking under hypnosis
Acupuncture handshakes and malt’s
And syrups and milk and honey
Hydrochloride dream like states
Of fast forward thoughts of gender bending
Blank canvas creator
Painting blank canvas painters
Ballin’ on D-Town hustlers
International brokers of Power
And Poverty
Create Mechanical
Predictable personification
of LED patterns of numbers
that expire before fully understanding
the nature of chaos in motion.

Test dose of anti-venom.
From non-evasive strikes
during hysterical states.
Scales smooth hypodermic teeth.
Tooth farming for the freak show.
Cast system post marked
Licensed by the state
Hidden in backroom conversation.
Document shredding ESP ignored.

(Easier to look the other way)
And convince yourself of your world view

Rooms full of cockroach carpet
Hard to breathe with so many flies
In the air Jorden
marketing shoes.

Cycle of desire
Internal gravity,
undertow of energies.
Polarized incomplete view
Seeing only what they want me to see.
Paranoid blinds (atom) splitter.
Phone tap checker.
Electronic surveyor.
Take responsibility too often.
Burning cold shadow.
Reproach from ex-lovers.
“THAT’S SOME PIG”
Place where marijuana is smoked.
Place where internal and external pressures subconscious mis-understanding
Place where “love it or leave it” is spoken
from post 9/11 W voters
“Who else will hunt down those towel heads?”

Serving life jail sentences.
DEA training for Singapore executions…
Examples had to be made.

Grunt vagrancy Bled the ground red.
Sniper shadow motion
of bug crawling in peripheral vision
Disappear when searching for.

Mirage of carrot on a stick.
Desolate dessert ground
Cracked and broken in yearning
For rain.

Dance ’round bonfire
skin and hand bones slap stretched animal skin
drums of all imaginable shapes and sizes.
Nude Beltane celebrations in Texas hill country.
Sounds of warm pacific waves
Rhythmically crashing on Polynesian
Velvet sand between toes
As we walk hand in hand
Illuminated by time and place
Same sun making sunset is the morning sunrise
To those who rose from ashes of Hiroshima and Nagasaki winters,
Skin melting
Pink microwave burns,
Non military target.
Folds of sliced flesh.
Smell of radiation.
Doctors trying their best to help.
Scientists trying their best to destroy.
Ministers of foreign affairs doing their best to
manipulate the art of conversation.
Business of War.
Fall back into your fathers grave.
Endless fields of white crosses
In symmetric order foreign to nature.

Animation…illusions of motion.
Bellies swelling with hunger
Too weak to swat the flies.
Botox injecting, manufacturer of plastic.
Electricity disguised as human
normal human voice listing side effects
from new erectile dysfunction medication.
Investors wait and watch with anticipation.
Silhouetted surfer watching the ocean
in observant,
teachable,
meditation in action.

Are you sure you’ve really thought this through?

“Yes men” got families with mouths to feed.
Paycheck bouncing up and down inside your bank account.
Guard too often let down… ‘defense mechanisms keep good people away.
No more flirting from less then arms length
Arms link to former soviet union.
Faster computer.
Petroleum fuel.
No more arrogance
And disappointment.

Whose common quest is to be true to their calling…
Whatever they perceive that to be.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Don’t freak, go on the thread yrself!
Date: February 22, 2004 at 2:18:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I replied to Sandy privately, what Sandy sent me is in “”

One problem explaining ibogaine is it does the unbelievable, the kind of experience and result is not understood. I don’t want to say this to Sandy but it is like trying to explain what SEX is to an alien species that never heard of sex – and all you have is words, even with a black board that gotta be difficult to explain… (lol). At least seeing it happen to someone else the way Vivian saw me after getting treated with ibo is like “WOW, A PROFOUND CHANGE HAS HAPPENED TO THIS PERSON” – and that is within 2 seconds from just walking (or levitating) in the door 3 days later. So most people come from their usual experiences with addiction, what ibogaine does simply can’t happen – and no, it can’t (without ibogaine). Exactly! So she is trying to understand but if there ever was a different paradigm it is ibogaine.

BTW, sorry if I am a bit stranger than usual in some of my posts, those anti-addictive drugs I had been taking will fuck up your mind! . It is the first time I think since my first ibogaine treatment that I really want to dose (ibo) to clear my head from those (IMO dangerous) AED’s.

Brett

(snip) starting with me to Sandy.

I had a life, I did a lot more than most in my recovery efforts, I had fun, I had happiness, but still wasn’t right, moments of peace at best, never at peace. There are people from one end of the addict spectrum to the other, ibogaine shifts their ability to recover up a few hundred notches. Oh, BTW, not all cures work for everyone and even penicillin which “cures”  venereal diseases doesn’t stop one from repeating the thoughts and behaviors (though ibogaine helps that); they can catch it again. So long as I don’t allow the thoughts I won’t do the behavior; with ibo I say “STOP” and I STOP, before that I said “STOP” thousands of times, and kept going.

“But here’s the part with Ibogaine that I don’t get.  You say you know it’s there if you relapse.  Well that sort of means it’s not a cure, doesn’t it?  ”

If it were diabetis and I had it, someone comes along and discovers Insulin, so what if it isn’t a cure? I am not saying ibogaine is a cure, maybe close, it will put something in remission, heal the addiction, does things that nothing else did – but NOT EVERYTHING. Perhaps Ibogaine can facilitate a cure, then what do you mean by “cure”? I know  I can never go back and won’t go back, does that mean I might not have an OOPS, I don’t know – I do know it won’t go anywhere.   I do know if it did go somewhere there is always ibogaine, therefore won’t unless I decided to. I had to go on pain medication, narcotics, benzo’s… The ibogaine being there really had nothing to do with me being cured or not, but it is nice knowing it is there because I am filling receptors, there are issues to overcome. This isn’t something people normally do, try wailing into a NA meeting sometime with a pain issue looking for advice on going on pain meds (LOL), you can hear the claws dig into the cheap vinyl seats

“So what about the living changes to keep you from that relapse in the first place?  Aren’t they still relevant?  How does that all work together? ”

Very well. It’s like not being distracted by DRUG STUFF bouncing in your head (after ibogaine treatment). For a while it is Strong, then it fades (as noribogaine leaves the body, over months). Why you have to make those “life changes” after ibogaine is that DRUG ADDICTION is the default, you don’t make changes after ibogaine tx that is where you are going (typically and all that). After ibogaine there isn’t that haze, even people who have been clean for years have used ibogaine with good results – the demons. Yes you could say that with 20 years of whatever recovery you could do it, but obviously most don’t make it that far to say the least. Ibogaine gets you across the river, even if you have to be tossed a few times, you are CLEAN, you know you can be clean you feel CLEAN, you know happiness, like for the first time in many years (for me). Peace, I took ibogaine and a couple of days later I was at peace and that lasted 6 months, then it got harder… did more ibo. Take an addict and SHOW THEM themselves, SHOW THEM the other side of the river, “see, you can get there”, clean em up inside and out, buy them time, actually normalize a lot of brain functioning and thoughts (as in getting the compulsiveness out).

Next month Dr. Mash’s study should be out, the “numbers” will be there – in real life, there isn’t anything in the same ballpark (but I am not calling anything a cure – those who do have NEVER tried ibogaine and lack understanding)

Mileage varies on ibogaine: some people need once, some several, some may need continued boosters, some it may not work (LT) and rarely does it not work for detoxing. Some people may go right out and use, others are clean for years – and everywhere in between.

All ibogaine is a tool, a medicine, it is an “easier softer way” but for many it may be the only way. Many addicts never recover because they see the problem as insurmountable.  They know no other way of life or thinking. Addiction defines them.  Ibogaine can change what one believes about oneself.

These are questions, not challenges.
“Heroin, in particular, is next to impossible for people to kick.  I’ve seen it way too many times to think otherwise.  And I’ve seen some truly tough alcoholic cases too, Tx #15 and the like.  It’s heart breaking.  So if Ibogaine helps these people, it’s a crime for it not to be available.  But I wonder if it’s fair to promote it as a cure if it is more of a bridge.  Shooting ten years sobriety up somebody’s butt so they’ll get it.  ”

Cure? There is nothing that will cure one from oneself. If someone wants to be a drug addict they will be a drug addict, ibogaine will not change that. Just like if someone has diabeties and they want to eat chocolate bars and kill themselves they will – I know someone 26 years sober who did just that.

On the “choice” scale whatever took you a 10 in effort before ibogaine, is now a 1, 2 3 – or maybe a 9 till dose 2, then a 7, then a 4… Ibogaine gives one the ability to overcome, the clarity of mind and strange as it may seem, a mirror into them unlike any other that I could imagine. “Bridge”, it does give time (during the post tx-ibo-glow period), but does other things that can’t be explained. The knowledge never left me, certain understandings.  I was always calmer after my first ibo treatment, saw what I was doing and when I needed another dose, I wasn’t as bad and wanted to clean/happy more, and I knew exactly where to get that (ibo). For whatever reasons with ibo more got done, it just wouldn’t have and it did, a life change that I couldn’t believe and sometimes still don’t. Again, even cures (like someone being cured for cancer) don’t work for everyone equally.

Look, I sit here at times watching my actiions post ibogaine treatment and I can’t even believe it, like someone changed some “code” or removed some bad wiring. Yes, I went along, tried, put in the effort but after ibogaine my efforts and accomplishments were compounded many times. Any problems or issues I have been able to stand back from, like when pain meds are either in me or from side effects (withdrawal),  even not doing ibogaine I can stand back, be objective. I am not the drug, I am not the anger or frustration any longer. One of the unusual  things ibo does is allow that ability, to “stand back” to see ones self – even long after doing ibo, something long term along the curing lines is happening (yes),  healing in degrees if you like rather than “cure”.
Best,
Brett – bcalabrese@yahoo.com

Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Patrick and anyone else who can write halfway decently. I don’t know if
I have a real opinion on this subject but Dana has dumped your and Dr.
Mash’s entire interview all over the Kerry site, added Steven Anker and
Jerry Stahl and for some reason is reposting Sara’s messages.

I don’t know if this is really something helpful? It started talking
about ibogaine and has turned into a 12 steps against everything else
debate. Reading at least 40 of those on this list over the years I’ve
never seen one go anywhere.

Patrick earth to patrick patrick are you here, don’t you write long
letters saying what Dana meant to say instead of what’s happening. This
is the time to do that. Or maybe not.

Dana I am reading this thread and if I didn’t have the background of
reading this list for years I would have lost track of it after the
first 20 or 30 paragraphs, it’s stopped being about ibogaine and turned
into ibogaine and every other crazy thing anybody adds to it.

Asking people to listen about a hallucinogen that cures addiction was
not impossible since you reposted the entire kroupa/mash interview but
now it’s kroupa/mash, anker/stahl and sara glatt dosing people with
shrooms and cannabis after detoxing them with ibogaine.

Someone should do something.
.:vector:.

Brett Calabrese has the right idea. Go on the thread yrself!

BEFORE I got there, they were mainly talking about pot and libertarian free market  proscriptions for how to end the drug war, and the moderators (who do seme to regurgitate poorly digested 12 step maxims when really challenged) were putting them off.

Kerry staffers naturally don’t want him near anything controversial.

Here’s an example of what was inserted just after my last post (the calculation with the pot and ‘shrooms was that it would make ibo more palatable to an audience of legalizers, BTW) —

A little letter from someone “on the hill” is forwarded below:

The American led war on drugs was doomed from the very beginning.
Regardless of the money put into the anti-drug programme, one cannot
nullify the basic supply and demand law of economics.

As long as people want to purchase recreational drugs and are
willing to pay a substantial price to buy them, somebody will
produce them and somebody else will somehow get the drugs to the
buyers.

This is guaranteed.

The war on drugs has transformed the United States into the most
incarcerated nation in history.

With less than five per cent of the world’s population, the U.S. has
more than one fourth of the world’s prisoners. In other words, one
out of every four prisoners in the world is locked in an American
prison, thanks primarily to America’s counter-productive war on
certain (politically selected) drugs.

The United States government is in no position to give any other
nation advice on how to run an anti-drugs campaign.

No other nation has wasted more resources on fighting drugs and no
other nation has imprisoned more citizens for drug law violations
than the US, yet no other nation has been less successful in solving
its narcotics problem than the United States.

My advice to the rest of the world: Carefully observe the U.S.
narcotics policy and do the opposite.

Don’t follow us, we’re lost.

Kirk Muse,

USA

Note: This lead published letter to the editor was accompanied by a
War on Drugs editorial cartoon MAP archived at
http://www.mapinc.org/images/kirkmuse.jpg
If you need more info on this, please visit www.mapinc.org and read the truth about lost freedoms in the land of the free.

I’ve read that same “Don’t follow us we’re lost” Kirk Muse letter numerous times; in other words, these folks are filling the thread with legalization boilerplate, anyway, so Ibogaine can only be an improvement. On the other hand, I got the following this morning:

I have always looked at the WOD as a policy
that is both wrongheaded and unconstitutional.
Anyone who understands law can see that the
“tax” on hemp and the DEA/Drug Czar are simply
“end arounds” of the basic law of the land.
The Ibogaine issue is new to me, and though I
have very little knowledge of this treatment,
I can see that it would cut the legs off the current
punative cant of the WOD.
It never made any sense, and if there is a real
and working treatment for addiction to “hard”
drugs (class 1 MJ is a fraud on it’s face) it would
change the whole landscape.
Do you have any sites or references to the usages
of ibogaine beyond what the normal google will turn
up ( tribal studies, history, etc.).
I would very much like to get up to speed on this
new (at least to me) issue.

TIA

….So some people on the thread are actually processing the ibo info and thinking through its implications. And Theresa Heinz Kerry IS interested, DID take extra copies of the INDEPENDENT ON SUNDAY magazine reprint. Check out the story on her in this morning’s NYTIMES. She is capable of evaluating it on its merits, plus she has the money to buy Glick’s company and actually make 18 MC available some time before 2015.

Now if we can just get her the ACADEMIC PRESS book….

Dana/cnw

[QUOTE]I decided I’d like to keep my anonymity for purposes of moderating the forum overall.  Although I recognize it’s sort of blown to anybody who has a clue.  I trust you’ll respect that in any event.
“I’m thrilled you’ve found a way to stay clean.  I’m 20 years sober and I quit going to meetings around year 8.  I needed to get on with my life.  I read further into the book and discovered parts where it actually said we’re supposed to do that!  So I did.  So I’ve never bought into the whole you MUST go to meetings or you’ll relapse anyway.  What I MUST do is build a life that I love so much that I wouldn’t think of trading a drink or drug for it.”
Each to our own abilities and situations. I had a life, I did a lot more than most in my recovery efforts, I had fun, I had happiness, but still wasn’t right, moments of peace at best, never at peace. There are people from one end of the addict spectrum to the other, ibogaine shifts their ability to recover up a few hundred notches. Oh, BTW, not all cures work for everyone and even penicillin which “cures”  venereal diseases doesn’t stop one from repeating the thoughts and behaviors (though ibogaine helps that); they can catch it again. So long as I don’t allow the thoughts I won’t do the behavior; with ibo I say “STOP” and I STOP, before that I said “STOP” thousands of times, and kept going.
“But here’s the part with Ibogaine that I don’t get.  You say you know it’s there if you relapse.  Well that sort of means it’s not a cure, doesn’t it?  ”
If it were diabetis and I had it, someone comes along and discovers Insulin, so what if it isn’t a cure? I am not saying ibogaine is a cure, maybe close, it will put something in remission, heal the addiction, does things that nothing else did – but NOT EVERYTHING. Perhaps Ibogaine can facilitate a cure, then what do you mean by “cure”? I know  I can never go back and won’t go back, does that mean I might not have an OOPS, I don’t know – I do know it won’t go anywhere.   I do know if it did go somewhere there is always ibogaine, therefore won’t unless I decided to. I had to go on pain medication, narcotics, benzo’s… The ibogaine being there really had nothing to do with me being cured or not, but it is nice knowing it is there because I am filling receptors, there are issues to overcome. This isn’t something people normally do, try wailing into a NA meeting sometime with a pain issue looking for advice on going on pain meds (LOL), you can hear the claws dig into the cheap vinyl seats
“So what about the living changes to keep you from that relapse in the first place?  Aren’t they still relevant?  How does that all work together? ”
Very well. It’s like not being distracted by DRUG STUFF bouncing in your head (after ibogaine treatment). For a while it is Strong, then it fades (as noribogaine leaves the body, over months). Why you have to make those “life changes” after ibogaine is that DRUG ADDICTION is the default, you don’t make changes after ibogaine tx that is where you are going (typically and all that). After ibogaine there isn’t that haze, even people who have been clean for years have used ibogaine with good results – the demons. Yes you could say that with 20 years of whatever recovery you could do it, but obviously most don’t make it that far to say the least. Ibogaine gets you across the river, even if you have to be tossed a few times, you are CLEAN, you know you can be clean you feel CLEAN, you know happiness, like for the first time in many years (for me). Peace, I took ibogaine and a couple of days later I was at peace and that lasted 6 months, then it got harder… did more ibo. Take an addict and SHOW THEM themselves, SHOW THEM the other side of the river, “see, you can get there”, clean em up inside and out, buy them time, actually normalize a lot of brain functioning and thoughts (as in getting the compulsiveness out).
Next month Dr. Mash’s study should be out, the “numbers” will be there – in real life, there isn’t anything in the same ballpark (but I am not calling anything a cure – those who do have NEVER tried ibogaine and lack understanding)
Mileage varies on ibogaine: some people need once, some several, some may need continued boosters, some it may not work (LT) and rarely does it not work for detoxing. Some people may go right out and use, others are clean for years – and everywhere in between.
All ibogaine is a tool, a medicine, it is an “easier softer way” but for many it may be the only way. Many addicts never recover because they see the problem as insurmountable.  They know no other way of life or thinking. Addiction defines them.  Ibogaine can change what one believes about oneself.
These are questions, not challenges.
“Heroin, in particular, is next to impossible for people to kick.  I’ve seen it way too many times to think otherwise.  And I’ve seen some truly tough alcoholic cases too, Tx #15 and the like.  It’s heart breaking.  So if Ibogaine helps these people, it’s a crime for it not to be available.  But I wonder if it’s fair to promote it as a cure if it is more of a bridge.  Shooting ten years sobriety up somebody’s butt so they’ll get it.  ”
Cure? There is nothing that will cure one from oneself. If someone wants to be a drug addict they will be a drug addict, ibogaine will not change that. Just like if someone has diabeties and they want to eat chocolate bars and kill themselves they will – I know someone 26 years sober who did just that.
On the “choice” scale whatever took you a 10 in effort before ibogaine, is now a 1, 2 3 – or maybe a 9 till dose 2, then a 7, then a 4… Ibogaine gives one the ability to overcome, the clarity of mind and strange as it may seem, a mirror into them unlike any other that I could imagine. “Bridge”, it does give time (during the post tx-ibo-glow period), but does other things that can’t be explained. The knowledge never left me, certain understandings.  I was always calmer after my first ibo treatment, saw what I was doing and when I needed another dose, I wasn’t as bad and wanted to clean/happy more, and I knew exactly where to get that (ibo). For whatever reasons with ibo more got done, it just wouldn’t have and it did, a life change that I couldn’t believe and sometimes still don’t. Again, even cures (like someone being cured for cancer) don’t work for everyone equally.
Look, I sit here at times watching my actiions post ibogaine treatment and I can’t even believe it, like someone changed some “code” or removed some bad wiring. Yes, I went along, tried, put in the effort but after ibogaine my efforts and accomplishments were compounded many times. Any problems or issues I have been able to stand back from, like when pain meds are either in me or from side effects (withdrawal),  even not doing ibogaine I can stand back, be objective. I am not the drug, I am not the anger or frustration any longer. One of the unusual  things ibo does is allow that ability, to “stand back” to see ones self – even long after doing ibo, something long term along the curing lines is happening (yes),  healing in degrees if you like rather than “cure”.
Best,
Brett – bcalabrese@yahoo.com

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Don’t freak, go on the thread yrself!
Date: February 22, 2004 at 1:02:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick and anyone else who can write halfway decently. I don’t know if
I have a real opinion on this subject but Dana has dumped your and Dr.
Mash’s entire interview all over the Kerry site, added Steven Anker and
Jerry Stahl and for some reason is reposting Sara’s messages.

I don’t know if this is really something helpful? It started talking
about ibogaine and has turned into a 12 steps against everything else
debate. Reading at least 40 of those on this list over the years I’ve
never seen one go anywhere.

Patrick earth to patrick patrick are you here, don’t you write long
letters saying what Dana meant to say instead of what’s happening. This
is the time to do that. Or maybe not.

Dana I am reading this thread and if I didn’t have the background of
reading this list for years I would have lost track of it after the
first 20 or 30 paragraphs, it’s stopped being about ibogaine and turned
into ibogaine and every other crazy thing anybody adds to it.

Asking people to listen about a hallucinogen that cures addiction was
not impossible since you reposted the entire kroupa/mash interview but
now it’s kroupa/mash, anker/stahl and sara glatt dosing people with
shrooms and cannabis after detoxing them with ibogaine.

Someone should do something.
.:vector:.

Brett Calabrese has the right idea. Go on the thread yrself!

BEFORE I got there, they were mainly talking about pot and libertarian free market  proscriptions for how to end the drug war, and the moderators (who do seme to regurgitate poorly digested 12 step maxims when really challenged) were putting them off.

Kerry staffers naturally don’t want him near anything controversial.

Here’s an example of what was inserted just after my last post (the calculation with the pot and ‘shrooms was that it would make ibo more palatable to an audience of legalizers, BTW) —

A little letter from someone “on the hill” is forwarded below:

The American led war on drugs was doomed from the very beginning.
Regardless of the money put into the anti-drug programme, one cannot
nullify the basic supply and demand law of economics.

As long as people want to purchase recreational drugs and are
willing to pay a substantial price to buy them, somebody will
produce them and somebody else will somehow get the drugs to the
buyers.

This is guaranteed.

The war on drugs has transformed the United States into the most
incarcerated nation in history.

With less than five per cent of the world’s population, the U.S. has
more than one fourth of the world’s prisoners. In other words, one
out of every four prisoners in the world is locked in an American
prison, thanks primarily to America’s counter-productive war on
certain (politically selected) drugs.

The United States government is in no position to give any other
nation advice on how to run an anti-drugs campaign.

No other nation has wasted more resources on fighting drugs and no
other nation has imprisoned more citizens for drug law violations
than the US, yet no other nation has been less successful in solving
its narcotics problem than the United States.

My advice to the rest of the world: Carefully observe the U.S.
narcotics policy and do the opposite.

Don’t follow us, we’re lost.

Kirk Muse,

USA

Note: This lead published letter to the editor was accompanied by a
War on Drugs editorial cartoon MAP archived at
http://www.mapinc.org/images/kirkmuse.jpg
If you need more info on this, please visit www.mapinc.org and read the truth about lost freedoms in the land of the free.

I’ve read that same “Don’t follow us we’re lost” Kirk Muse letter numerous times; in other words, these folks are filling the thread with legalization boilerplate, anyway, so Ibogaine can only be an improvement. On the other hand, I got the following this morning:

I have always looked at the WOD as a policy
that is both wrongheaded and unconstitutional.
Anyone who understands law can see that the
“tax” on hemp and the DEA/Drug Czar are simply
“end arounds” of the basic law of the land.
The Ibogaine issue is new to me, and though I
have very little knowledge of this treatment,
I can see that it would cut the legs off the current
punative cant of the WOD.
It never made any sense, and if there is a real
and working treatment for addiction to “hard”
drugs (class 1 MJ is a fraud on it’s face) it would
change the whole landscape.
Do you have any sites or references to the usages
of ibogaine beyond what the normal google will turn
up ( tribal studies, history, etc.).
I would very much like to get up to speed on this
new (at least to me) issue.

TIA

….So some people on the thread are actually processing the ibo info and thinking through its implications. And Theresa Heinz Kerry IS interested, DID take extra copies of the INDEPENDENT ON SUNDAY magazine reprint. Check out the story on her in this morning’s NYTIMES. She is capable of evaluating it on its merits, plus she has the money to buy Glick’s company and actually make 18 MC available some time before 2015.

Now if we can just get her the ACADEMIC PRESS book….

Dana/cnw

From: Highlander35739@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] patrick or anyone else here who can write take note!
Date: February 22, 2004 at 6:37:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

how do i unsubscripe to get away from this blurb now im clean an free???

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] life style.
Date: February 22, 2004 at 4:23:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There are few way to change a life style.(in my opinion).
1. To imitated other people.
2. Fear, insight.

You may know no.3 or no.4 which I don’t.
Anywayzzz Mushrooms have been used by the pygmies 20,000 years ago.
Cannabis is one of the oldest medicines we have on the planet,
5000 years of Chinese herbal medicine.

Just because it is not accepted by AA/NA it doesn’t mean that the
Chinese or pygmies are wrong. (Or other native population).they are
having a simple way of living because they are more connected to the
spirit world then materialism.
The pygmies are still here and the Chinese too without having major
pharmaceutical companies helping them to survive for thousands for
years.

The treatment I provide may not be the classical Ibogaine treatment.
But the people who got it were grateful for the insight and change it
brought in their life without going to AA/NA and other treatments.
Most of them went back to work and are independent people.

S.

P.S anybody who wants to answer attack dismiss write shit is most
welcome, have fun.

Osama bin-ladin is still free. Are you?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] (U.K) Government’s forthcoming National Alcohol Strategy
Date: February 22, 2004 at 3:11:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Observer 

Doctors should be paid to warn patients who have a bad drinking habit, as a radical new way of curbing Britain’s excessive drinking culture.
Alcohol Concern wants the Government’s forthcoming National Alcohol Strategy to consider ways that GPs can be encouraged to quiz people on how much they drink and to give them hard-hitting advice on how to curb their excessive boozing.

’Studies show that this sort of intervention has a demonstrable impact. People won’t be nagged, but they will listen to someone in a white coat who warns them that, if they carry on the way they are drinking, they will end up, say, impotent,’ said Richard Phillips, director of policy and services at Alcohol Concern, which has made a series of key suggestions on how the new strategy should be framed.

The plan would be for doctors to receive a fee for discussing a patient’s drinking habits, similar to the way GPs are now paid by some health trusts to help people quit smoking.

Alcohol Concern would like to see patients asked a series of questions to ascertain how much they drink and then be given feedback on their results. The doctor would outline the kind of problems a patient could expect in the future if they did not cut their drinking and suggest possible courses of action to tackle the problem.

If Health Ministers agree, the scheme would be written into doctors’ contracts – as a way of encouraging GPs to take a more active role in tackling the alcohol problem.

Almost nine million people in the UK are labelled ‘heavy drinkers’ – people whose consumption is a cause for concern. Health officials are worried in particular about the huge rise in the number of so-called binge drinkers, especially among young women.

The Government warns that, if trends continue, by 2012 53 per cent of young women will be drinking more than their weekly limits compared with 48 per cent of men.

Alcohol-related problems place a huge burden on the NHS, costing it up to £1.7 billion a year. The average GP sees 360 patients a year who are misusing alcohol, but intervenes in fewer than 5 per cent of cases. At peak times, statistics show up to eight out of 10 patients in accident and emergency departments have alcohol-related injuries.

It is unlikely, however, that cash-strapped health trusts will welcome the proposals which would see cash diverted from ‘more deserving’ areas. In addition, the Government fears ‘nanny state’ accusations if it is seen to be lecturing the public on its drinking habits.

Divisions between Ministers over what approach should be taken have delayed publication of the long- awaited National Alcohol Strategy, but it is understood that the document will be published next month.

Drawn up by the Number 10 Strategy Unit, it is expected to call for all alcoholic products to carry health warnings and suggest a number of ways the drinks industry could help raise awareness of problems associated with excessive drinking.

Government statisticians calculate that the UK loses £6.4bn in productivity while the cost in related crime and public disorder is estimated to be up to £7.3bn. Offsetting this is the fact that the Treasury makes more than £7bn a year in taxes on alcoholic drinks. One plan being considered at ministerial level is to force the drinks industry to pay more towards alcohol awareness campaigns. The Government’s Big Conversation website puts the question: ‘Is there a case for a levy on alcohol advertising, with the proceeds ploughed back into treatment and into advertising campaigns promoting responsible drinking by young people?’

Ministers also want to give powers to issue licences to local authorities instead of magistrates while pubs and clubs failing to curb drunkenness and bad behaviour could be shut. A number of schemes already running will be highlighted as examples of ‘best practice’ for pubs and clubs. These include one in which local pubs unite to share information and ban particular problem drinkers.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] patrick or anyone else here who can write take note!
Date: February 22, 2004 at 2:44:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick and anyone else who can write halfway decently. I don’t know if
I have a real opinion on this subject but Dana has dumped your and Dr.
Mash’s entire interview all over the Kerry site, added Steven Anker and
Jerry Stahl and for some reason is reposting Sara’s messages.

I don’t know if this is really something helpful? It started talking
about ibogaine and has turned into a 12 steps against everything else
debate. Reading at least 40 of those on this list over the years I’ve
never seen one go anywhere.

Patrick earth to patrick patrick are you here, don’t you write long
letters saying what Dana meant to say instead of what’s happening. This
is the time to do that. Or maybe not.

Dana I am reading this thread and if I didn’t have the background of
reading this list for years I would have lost track of it after the
first 20 or 30 paragraphs, it’s stopped being about ibogaine and turned
into ibogaine and every other crazy thing anybody adds to it.

Asking people to listen about a hallucinogen that cures addiction was
not impossible since you reposted the entire kroupa/mash interview but
now it’s kroupa/mash, anker/stahl and sara glatt dosing people with
shrooms and cannabis after detoxing them with ibogaine.

Someone should do something.

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 21, 2004 at 11:24:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Who is bob sisko and why are you mailing me this?

.:vector:.

— Anntelope <Anntelope@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Well, I’ll tell you what.  I sure do wish the same thing because I
paid
three thousand dollars for an Ibogaine treatment when I was a
destitute
addict – that is covered with sores and one hundred pounds because I
was
GUARANTEED a cure.

I didn’t even provide me with a pain free withdrawal and I had to go
running
from the treatment to get some Methadone.  And Robert Sisko, who had
just
relieved me of every last penny I had in the world, would NOT even
give me
cab fare in the snow.  I was soaking wet and in acute withdrawals.

It is my personal opinion that they are wrongly exploiting this
sacred herb.
The only thing that happened as promised when I took Ibogaine was
that I DID
encounter the Bwiti.  I always mentiont his – even though I KNOW it
makes me
look foolish and provides people with an easy reason not to listen to
me. I
still think it’s best to be honest.  It was a spiritual experience.
But as
for withdrawals?  I can beat withdrawals with a good shot of Speed
too.  But
there will be hell to pay when it wears off.

lol

Anne

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:32:40 -0800 (PST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com,
crashtestdummies@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

This is spreading like crazy. Superfreak! Patrick! Where’s the
MindVox
tshirt in the photoshoot???? 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

http://www.drudgereport.com/

.:vector:.

— Ethan Straffin <drumz@best.com> wrote:

On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:45  PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to
finally
get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first
time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right, and

while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults
who
request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work
like
a
magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of
those
who
do
try it.

Wow, Preston…tough crowd.  This part really doesn’t do it for
you?
😉


Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom
it
does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication,
psychiatry,
you
need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.

Ethan

Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I
will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr.
Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the
withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective
for

heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine
alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to
six

hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she
describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,
something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for
blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we
saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever
worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial
of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin
addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well
what

happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re
freezing,
you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his
addiction
leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had
actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was
the

first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I
mean,
14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern
America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now
actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of
all

kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient
plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United
States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist
believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it when
I

first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to
be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and
Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study
ibogaine,
a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West
Africa
and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick
their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from
the
Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high
himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr.
Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely to
gain
the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with
little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the
cost
of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It
was
a
very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my
life,
I
had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly
I
just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because I
could
not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living
like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not
getting
high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal so
I
can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for
addiction
is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to
return
to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their
legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment
modality,
every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,”
admits

Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash
was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow a
scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a
“schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came
through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists,
doctors,
clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go
forward
with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to
look

into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her
project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island of
St.
Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were
given

carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the
sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I
will
go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the
withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective
for

heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine
alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to
six

hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she
describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,
something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for
blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we
saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever
worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial
of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin
addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well
what

happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re
freezing,
you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his
addiction
leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had
actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was
the

first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I
mean,
14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine
in
the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’
Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks
the

opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it
elevates
mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very
little

only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as
if
the
plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a
person

and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of
behavior,”
she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom
it

does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication,
psychiatry,

you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the
trials,

ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer and
somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing
over
you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from
Africa

holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going to
see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be
stunning,”

says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug
Administration
next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further
testing,

based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the
United
States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee
of
the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for now,
that
can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

<]=——————————————————————–

—=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com

]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-

|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=——————————————————————–

—=[>

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: rickc@ziplip.com <rickc@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done
Date: February 21, 2004 at 10:57:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some of the time exactly the thing elected officials or hope to be elected officials need is a kick in the arse. They are supposed to represent us, not treat us like children and try to placate us. I see nothing wrong with bringing issues that are important to a candidates forum. That’s how a democrcy functions no?

Rick Coster
rickc@ziplip.com

—–Original Message—–
From: David Varossi [mailto:dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004, 7:55 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done

way.

Dana I don’t know if angering the moderators of one of
your presidential candidates is going to win you too
many new converts mate. Just a thought.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: rickc@ziplip.com <rickc@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done
Date: February 21, 2004 at 10:53:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been reading for a while, I got here from the psychedelic side and don’t understand a lot of what motivates people and what they do either. Patrick I don’t know what to say really. I love your writing, you have a lot of life experience and the ability to communicate it which is rare and valueable. You are obviously a very intelligent person, I look you up on the net and get drugs but everything before is hacking and computers, you’re 14 years old and writing white papers on breaking into systems. I would say you’re a genius at the least except……………….. except when I look at that arm it does stun me. The word genius doesn’t come to mind.

You’re very bright, you’re a good looking man, the net is filled with you in dot com, mindvox before and now, your writing, everything. What I don’t understand is the arm. What somebody wrote struck true for me. I don’t understand. What is so bad inside or what is wrong that you did this? It is one thing to talk about it, to hear it, it’s another to read your writing which is less about you and more about where it takes me when I read it but I look at that arm and if that’s 4 years later I hate to think what it used to look like. And for the first time I see the person behind the writing and madness and I always missed that before now, you were disembodied.

Why did you do this? I admit I had preconceptions about what a drug addict is, being someone who has great belief in the positive benefits of plants, natural healing, cannabis, psychedelics. I always thought people who did this were somehow I hate to say dumb or didn’t know better, but you don’t fit that stereotype at all. The jacket you’re wearing didn’t come from sears, you detoxed with Mash, you’ve been through all the treatments money can buy. Why? When does it start to make sense that if you stick so many needles into your arm it will solve something and what is to wrong that you need that many painkillers to go through one day?

Peace and please know I’m not attacking anyone, I know there is a lot of anger here I am trying to understand.

Thank you for your time and thanks for having the courage to share that.

Rick Coster
rickc@ziplip.com

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004, 7:49 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done

In a message dated 2/22/04 2:21:56 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

Is this production that Patrick and Deborah done available online? Does

anyone have a video of it they could sell? I will pay for tape and postage.
Thanks and Peace to all you wonderful fellow addicts!
Callie

You may be able to view the mash/kroupa interview from
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done
Date: February 21, 2004 at 10:21:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie it isnt a video production, its a very long interview on the news.
Howard posted the link to it, you click on it not order it.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:37:48 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 2/22/04 2:21:56 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

Is this production that Patrick and Deborah done available online?
Does

anyone have a video of it they could sell? I will pay for tape
and postage.
Thanks and Peace to all you wonderful fellow addicts!
Callie

You may be able to view the mash/kroupa interview from
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Howard

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done
Date: February 21, 2004 at 9:37:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/22/04 2:21:56 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

Is this production that Patrick and Deborah done available online? Does

anyone have a video of it they could sell? I will pay for tape and postage.
Thanks and Peace to all you wonderful fellow addicts!
Callie

You may be able to view the mash/kroupa interview from
http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done
Date: February 21, 2004 at 9:20:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is this production that Patrick and Deborah done available online? Does anyone have a video of it they could sell? I will pay for tape and postage.
Thanks and Peace to all you wonderful fellow addicts!
Callie

From: David Varossi <dvarossi@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] the needle and the damage done
Date: February 21, 2004 at 6:47:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I enjoyed the broadcast. Not knowing that much about
hard drugs and addiction I thought it was informative
and showed both sides, the science and the results. It
gives me a much different perspective on how people
got to where they are, from those street scenes to
here you’ve come a long way Patrick and saying it with
your name is admirable.

Showing you tracks to the camera, violence instead of
sex are the american speciality, sorry folks but this
is how the rest of the world sees you. That is a lot
of self inflicted violence that speaks volumes. I
don’t find it too gratutious because after the fact
even if I don’t know your whole history you have
flashed it to the camera and everything you say after
that has my attention in a much bigger way.

Dana I don’t know if angering the moderators of one of
your presidential candidates is going to win you too
many new converts mate. Just a thought.

Cheers
David

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote: >
I’m surprised. That was really really really good!
Way
to go to Deborah and Patrick! The two of you should
go
do Oprah.

Patrick you’re both crazy, you’re so crazy I have so
much respect that you have the balls to go up there
and do that.

Love your tracks 😉

Carla B

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Holy shit! The Deborah and Patrick show got 10
minutes!

This is a great show, thanks Randy. I didn’t catch
this!

Patrick!!!! Go superfreak! Flash your tracks to
all
of America!

All of this is becoming stranger then fiction 🙂
🙂 🙂 Miami Vice
on acid.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:30:58 -0800 Randy Hencken
<randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
KRON in San Francisco did a nice piece on
Ibogaine,
Deborah and Patrick.

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Well done!

___________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger – Communicate instantly…”Ping”
your friends today! Download Messenger Now
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com/download/index.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Join http://forum.johnkerry.com//index.php?showtopic=525&st=810&#entry46510
Date: February 21, 2004 at 6:24:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana/list

My reply to Sandy

Sandy,

I think what Dana is trying to do is explain what ibogaine is and what it does. While I understand how skeptical someone might be about ibogaine, it sounds like a re-make dropping acid. What ibogaine does is scientifically observable. For instance I am alive, I would not be if not for ibogaine. At last count there were over 200 papers listing ibogaine at the National Library of Medicine (medline) Long story short I did much of the usual treatment centers, the 12 steps, years clean, over and over, ZEN, yoga, exercise, spirituality, went to retreats, did things, had a life, had a hot job at one of your favorite .com’s, vegetarian for 18 years and still had demons flying around my head and relapsed – over and over. I was like everyone else, one receptor load (drug/drink) away from a relapse, scared, told while I am in “the rooms” my “disease” was out there doing push-ups.

I was way out of control, I took ibogaine and POOF, when I landed it was on the other side of the river. Ibogaine is not anything like fun, it is vile disgusting stuff, movement will send waves of intense nausea, it is in no way slightly abusable. Physicians use medicines all the time to treat the sick, if addiction is a disease and there is a medication for the disease why all the resistance? The stuff works, that should be all that matters. For all the 12 stepping I did I also never quit smoking, with just a thought. I put the cigs down one day shortly after an ibogaine “booster”, I just looked at them and POOF, the were no-longer part of my life, I was then and there a non-smoker. I actually got more relaxed and calmer, no bad cravings (just moments and some reflexing), no climing the walls, no white nuckles and no doubts – that means absolute certainty. This past summer I had to go on pain meds for medical issues (not a choice). In the past the pain, meds and surgeries has led to relapse. This time I went on and off oxycontin without a single “drug” thought, it never bounced around my head. In fact when the pain eased up (as it does in winters) I couldn’t stand to be on the medication and just stopped, I couldn’t keep taking them if wanted to – like YUCK, that is disgusting. Nothing, absoulutely nothing did that for me the way ibogaine did. My reactions to medications/drugs are like a normal person who doesn’t care for them, I think getting high on them as much as I do table salt/. I didn’t need ibogaine to stop pain meds or for any problems, but I am 100% certain that should I have a problem (relapse) that ibogaine will land me right back to CLEAN in a few days. I am not talking miserable, claw your way back, maybe go out for some days/weeks/years/die, I mean teleported to the other side of the river. I felt like, well unlike I ever felt before. sat on a mountain and meditated for the last 20 years, clean. My honey packed me off and counted me as dead and gone, she was in disbelief when she saw me levitate back in the house, at peace for the first time since I can remember. The 12 steps never gave me that, all the good stuff I did never gave me that, maybe a little, I mean it is good stuff and I love it but I couldn’t break through. Ibo broke through, it could have been 12 foot thick artic ice that just got crushed through. Now it is up to me to work on the hole, keeping it from freezing over and making it bigger, with the 12 steps and everything I was doing before it was like trying to chip through with an ice pick. With ibo it was more like NUKED – makes an awfully big hole in the ice no matter how thick.

The other thing ibogaine does is reduce cravings, blocks some effects pf drugs of abuse, gives someone the time to get clean, the attention span to look at the book, it makes someones head clear. It is like one day, stone cold (green skin) junkie and after ibogaine it is bright eyes and cleared skin, lots of vigor, a new lease on life, sort of born again (I hate that word), like the trash was thrown out. At least after the nausea stops. truely amazingly vile stuff indeed.

Yeah you gotta work on it, yeah you have to want it but for those who do, ibogaine brings it together, takes 90% of the effort out of it. It took me a few times (ibo) as is typical, but the strides I have made would be impossible without ibogaine, and I believe so would be my life. Somehow I don’t feel like I cheated using a “drug” to fight a drug, they fight fire with fire don’t they?

So, ibo is unlike anything humanly explainable, it does what seems impossible.

FWIW, here is my Fiancee’s experience with ibogaine, she never had a drug problem other than me. She hates drugs (for obvious reasons), does not consider ibogaine a “drug”.

Account of a 44 year old woman who took ibogaine for personal development. (April 2000)

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Join http://forum.johnkerry.com//index.php?showtopic=525&st=810&#entry46510
Date: February 21, 2004 at 3:56:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandy wrote:
So even if Ibogaine were used, there’d still need to be the same kind of treatment in order to break through denial and convince addicts they were out of control in the first place. Once you do that, Ibogaine isn’t necessary because changing your life and your attitudes will accomplish the same result, sobriety.

Now I see what the problem is. You say you’re the moderator here?
With this total certitude on the part of people surrounding him I can see why Kerry’s never heard of ibogaine, despite the fact my good friend John Mattes provided him crucial help when he first went after the Contras, something John had been primed to do only because of the Yippies’ earlier opposition to CIA heroin smuggling from Vietnam–the self-same protests that lead to my introduction to Howard Lotsof (inventor of Ibogaine as an addiction treatment) by Ed Rosenthal in 1973…

Evidently you didn’t read the KRON stuff, so I’ll take the liberty of cutting and pasting just a couple of paragraphs:

QUOTE

Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction is notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return to a drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their legal substitutes, like methadone.

“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment modality, every paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits Patrick.

We treat people who’ve tried and failed again and again–chronic relapsers. Most of my referrals are people who want to quit methadone.

And a little further down:

QUOTE
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given carefully prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the skeptical scientist.

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.

It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the withdrawal symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for heroin, crack cocaine and even alcohol.

There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second remains a mystery.

Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on numerous occasions.”

“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters mental state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six hour state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she describes.

But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state, something extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking opiate withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw the cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.

Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever worked and this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of ibogaine.

“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts that I have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear the scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what happened when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re going through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing, you’re hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,” describes Patrick.

Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction leaving him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had actually been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the first time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick

That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since. “I’m saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14 to 30 is a long time,” he says.

On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine in the body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’ Noribogaine appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.

“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks the opiate withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it elevates mood,” say Dr. Mash.

But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very little — only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as if the plant is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person and why you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior,” she says.

Our addicts already KNOW they’re out of control. They need the cognitive experience of the lucid dreamstate both to see the psychological underpinnings of their obsessive/compulsive disorder and for re-orientation of the “hardwiring” of addiction that keeps sending them down the street to cop drugs whether they want to or not.

Plus it gets rid of withdrawal. It’s the first class of drugs to do that where when the ibo effect wears off, they don’t just go back into withdrawal, like methadone or buprenorphin. No mean feat.

Ibogaine resets glutamate pathways where longterm learning is imprinted. We know that mice bioengineered not to have the messenger 5 glutamate pathway could not be trained to self-inject cocaine. Regular mice self-inject in preference to food and water–til they die. But these mice–even though their dopamine was spiking, their serotonin was spiking, they were getting high, in other words–could not become addicted. (This research was done in New England, so you should know better!)

Dreaming is the key to recovery even in conventional detox. Heroin addicts report extremely elevated dream activity when they first go into recovery, anyway. Ibogaine just cuts the first ninety days of the process off, and then we put them on melatonin, which is like a simplified Ibogaine. BTW, one in twenty people who do melatonin for jet lag or just to sleep have to stop it because the dreams are too intense. And melatonin is legal!
Dana/cnw

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] From the Kerry drugwar thread
Date: February 21, 2004 at 12:53:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

QUOTE

Twelve step groups HAVE been dismissive of Iboga’s potential, the line coming up most often “You can’t treat Drug Abuse with a drug.”
—————————————

If you can’t treat it medically, what does that leave? The 12 steps, naturally. What galls me is that these folks have made their peace with methadone and trexan–drugs that you have to take every day for the rest of your life, but they’re against Ibogaine because because it’s an article of faith amongst their ilk that all psychedelics–not just pot–are part of the gateway effect. Getting “high” on nonaddictive drugs (pot, acid, etc.) inevitably leads you down the slippery slope to coke and dope, you see–so Ibogaine CAN’T work, and even it does, it shouldn’t be utilized because it shouldn’t ought to work like that!

What’s particularly insidious is the lock these folks have on the creative process in the mass media of this country, as exemplified by this Jerry Stahl character, who according to the tease for next week’s CSI, has one character running around on Ibogaine like it was acid. Anyone who knows anything about it knows that at doses low enough to do that, it’s non-hallucinogenic, and as soon as you take enough to go into the waking dream state, you can’t go anywhere because with the ataxia, you get motion sickness just getting up to go to the bathroom.

In other words, no one would take it unless they were kicking drugs and in withdrawal, or wanted to have a profound, 36 hour religious experience. I can’t understand why the legalization movement is not embracing Ibogaine, which actually frees people and breaks the 12 step monopoly on treatment. Under the current system, all druggies (especially potheads) “belong in the 12 steps,” and are potentially the PROPERTY of these groups.

No slaveholding class has ever agreed to abolition of their hold over their property.
Dana/cnw

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 21, 2004 at 12:23:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh, oops. Sorry ’bout that, I musta been not paying close attention,
stopping when I read that bit without going on.
My bad.
Peace all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ethan Straffin” <drumz@best.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:05 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:45  PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to finally get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right, and
while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults who
request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work like a
magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of those who
do
try it.

Wow, Preston…tough crowd.  This part really doesn’t do it for you?  😉


Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry, you
need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.

Ethan

Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the
withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for
heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters
mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six
hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she
describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,
something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking
opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever
worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts
that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what
happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing,
you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction
leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had
actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the
first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern
America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now
actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of all
kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United
States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist
believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it when I
first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and
Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study ibogaine,
a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West Africa
and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from the
Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high
himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr. Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely to gain
the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the cost of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It was a
very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my life, I
had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly I just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because I could
not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not getting
high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal so I can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction
is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment modality,
every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits
Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow a
scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a
“schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists, doctors,
clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go forward
with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to look
into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her
project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island of St.
Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given
carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the
sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will
go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the
withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for
heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters
mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six
hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she
describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,
something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking
opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever
worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts
that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what
happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing,
you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction
leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had
actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the
first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine in
the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’
Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks the
opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it elevates
mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very little

only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as if the
plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person
and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior,”
she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it
does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,
you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials,
ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer and
somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing over
you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa
holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going to see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning,”
says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration
next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing,
based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United
States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee of
the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for now, that
can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

<]=——————————————————————–
—=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com
]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com
|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=——————————————————————–
—=[>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “iboga_planteur” <iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] no spleen & iboga
Date: February 21, 2004 at 11:04:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

Thank you everybody for your information about ibogaine and no spleen, This
list is very rich, your experience that you share is really a treasure and I
thank you again for your free answers and for the time you took to answer.
I’ll keep you informed for what happened withj my friend.

Planteur

PS: For Callie, no my given name is not planteur, planteur is a word in
french for somebody who plant trees, actually I started an Iboga plantation
in Africa.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 21, 2004 at 8:08:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am happy to see your post Steve. I was hoping and figured the show would be scientifically accurate as it usually is. I really enjoy the show and that is one of the main reasons. Of course I know working forensic crime scenes is not as glamorous as they portray on the show, the information is usually pretty right on.
I have a gut feeling the show will pique the curiosity of addicts. I am hoping it will give Ibogaine a shove in the right direction!
Peace and thanks for writing!
Callie

From: “Adam Gur” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] why ibogaine in St. Kitts, of all places? — in praise of Dinky Sovereignty
Date: February 21, 2004 at 6:18:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I really recommend this read…..

A-

—– Original Message —–
From: Elmer Elevator
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:32 AM
Subject: [drugwar] why ibogaine in St. Kitts, of all places? — in praise of Dinky Sovereignty

hey can somebody please post this to ibogaine@mindvox.com  , I’m not subscribed there. thanx.

=================

From Deadly Volcano Island, where I was two weeks ago, you can see Nevis island on a clear day. Nevis is the sister island with nearby St. Kitts in an independent little Caribbean federation.

They got Dinky Sovereignty. They got the flag, they got the anthem, they got nationhood. They got their own local laws and loopholes.

So why did the ibogaine experiments take place on St. Kitts? This from a website about the 1999 Dead Sea (Israel) Conference on the Clinical Utility of MDMA and MDE that featured the ibogaine researcher Dr. Deborah Mash:

“Meanwhile, research is being conducted with addicts seeking treatment in the St. Kitts clinic, Healing Visions. St. Kitts does not adhere to the Single Convention, which forbids the use of ibogaine (and other Schedule 1 drugs) in most countries.”

(India, the world’s largest democracy, is also a non-signatory to the worldwide cannabis ban!)

Here’s the website of the Healing Visions ibogaine clinic on St. Kitts:

http://www.healingvisions.com/ibogaine.html

I love dinky little places with sovereignty. They add all the spice, all the variety, all the interest, all the possibilities to living on this planet. And a lot of the safety and rescue.

Europe used to be a celebration of Dinky Sovereignty. Even the old Soviet Bloc was permitted to have just enough Dinky Sovereignty so that, at the end, East Germans were permitted to travel to Czechoslovakia, and from there to Hungary — and from there, to Austria and the West without crawling through mine fields and machine-gun towers. The Berlin Wall suddenly became useless as a travel barrier, and it fell a month later.

In the Republic of Ireland, if you’re a fifteen-year-old girl raped by her uncle, you and your family are criminals if you try to get an abortion. So you take the day ferry from Dublin to Hollyhead, Wales, and then hop the train to London because you can get an abortion legally in England. (When the Irish cops found out, they arrested the raped teen’s parents, but not the uncle who raped her.) We’re talking about $50 in ferry and train tickets and a half-day of travel to buy a woman’s right to choose, to control her own body.

Next time you watch “Casablanca,” snap yourself out of the love story and pay close attention to the details of all the fugitives from Nazi Europe scheming to get out of Casablanca to Lisbon. In those days, Dinky Sovereignty could literally save your life; Portugal was one of the very few “Home Free” neutral places, from which you could flee to the Americas if you were lucky.

Thousands of Jews and other political and ethnic fugitives facing death in Europe managed to crawl through a bizarre maze of Dinky Sovereignty visas and take trains and boats all the way to Shanghai, China — Dinky Sovereignty saved their lives.

During the hottest of the Cold War, West Berlin had a screwy little Dinky Sovereignty wrinkle. It wasn’t exactly part of West Germany. Every dude in West Germany was subject to be drafted into the West German armed forces … UNLESS he could get to West BERLIN and stay there. Then, all of a sudden, magically, he couldn’t be drafted, he could shack up with Anika or Lars and just use his West German draft notice as toilet paper. West Berlin was consequently a hotbed of Euro-pacifism, draft-evasion, and the politics of human liberation. West Berliners resisted and were hostile to the creepy, nasty, military things that both the West and the Soviet Bloc countries tried to impose on human beings.

Ditto, during the Vietnam War, if an American dude could just get over that invisible dotted line to Canada — the difference between life, and dying, and being ordered to kill. Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau used a wonderful loophole. Canada and the U.S. have a very tight mutual extradiction treaty. BUT … at that time, Canada had no draft. SO … in Canada, dodging the draft wasn’t a crime. SO … Canada wasn’t obligated to extradict any American for a crime which wasn’t a crime at the time in Canada.

William S. Burroughs’ “Naked Lunch” takes place in Interzone, in North Africa. It’s actually a fictionalized Tangier, a city across from Gibraltar. After World War II, all the old European military occupations and colonial chokeholds on North Africa were momentarily released, and Tangier was a place with practically No Laws and no recognized legal relationships with any other countries. Burroughs was fleeing murder charges in Mexico and went straight to Tangier. Dinky Sovereignty never got any better than Tangier in the postwar Interzone years — if you were fleeing, you were safe; if you had an appetite, you could sate it there. Were there laws against heroin possession or drug addiction in Interzone? What’s a law? What’s “against” mean?

Any “vision” of a United Europe or a United North America or a United World, whose itty-bitty nations are all stripped of their individual legal quirks, is a Very Bad Thing.

All the advantages promised by the European Union are just worthless piss if it’s really just a smokescreen to get forty nations all to march to the same legal tune. A “Too United Europe” will be the same assault on individual human rights as the old Soviet Bloc/Warsaw Pact was. It will start to slide toward the state of affairs when the Nazis and their pals ran most of Europe.

The alternative? The forces pushing for a United Europe, or a United Caribbean, or a United Pacifica/Oceana will all be so enlightened, and will all be so dedicated to human freedom and rights, that they’ll create these international treaty leagues which will all guarantee everybody human rights and freedoms and fundamental dignity.

I can’t take enough LSD to imagine that kind of result from Eurocrats or the United Nations drugs treaty creeps.

Every international bureacrat has a vision of One Big Well-Lubricated Efficient Machine that all works the same way, and Success is measured in how few human beings can escape or fool or evade the Machine.

When I first started travelling to Europe, the train would stop every couple of hours and I’d have to show my passport to yet another bunch of border cops. And exchange yesterday’s funny money for today’s funny money, or I couldn’t eat or keep travelling. Funny … I used to love that, and rarely thought of it as an inconvenience. I used to love two built-in chances a day to get scrutinized by cops with pistols.

But in the last ten years, as I come near a new national border in Western Europe, I still get my passport out — but the train doesn’t even slow down, the train doesn’t even stop! If you’re in a car, you just keep driving! Each of a dozen countries CAN stop you and snoop, but most of the time they don’t anymore.

That sounds and seems like progress. But actually it’s a symptom of something quite creepy: Too much unification, too much multi-national agreement, too much legal conformity. And all threatening to extinguish that old, sloppy, disorderly, unpredictable community of anarchy called Dinky Sovereignty.

We’re all going to regret that bigtime — not just because it will shrink the different numbers of local sausages and beers, but because it will squeeze the shit out of fundamental human rights. The external pressure on the Netherlands to “conform” over the cannabis issue is huge.

If Dinky Sovereignty collapses in this ibogaine context, people desperate for an effective cure for addiction will have nowhere to go. The question isn’t “Does ibogaine work?” The question is: “Does one committee in Vienna or Geneva or Washington DC say it doesn’t work and must be banned everywhere in the world?”

But in lots of other contexts, people will actually die, or be imprisoned, or be forced to endure rape pregnancies if the world moves to extinguish Dinky Sovereignty.

The naughty little secret behind Dinky Sovereignty has always been that a lot of it fronts local scams which “off-beat” sovereign nations use to squeeze money out of desperate people.

But hundreds of thousands of times a year throughout the world, the desperate people are happy to pay the bribe, and think it’s worth the price. I suspect most of the patients at Healing Visions and most ibogaine researchers had never even heard of St. Kitts.

If Dinky Sovereignty dies, people who don’t want to march, or don’t like that tune, will all be forced to march to the same tune.

Elmer Elevator
Director
Global Institute for Dinky Sovereignty
(and the World Sausage/Wurst Proliferation Project)
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] package inserts
Date: February 21, 2004 at 3:43:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great page for obtaining rx package inserts

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cder/drugsatfda/

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 21, 2004 at 12:24:28 AM EST
To: dmash@newssun.med.miami.edu
Cc: digital@phantom.com

The two of you just won. I’ll not reprint the hate going on because it’s
not important, I don’t know if Stahl and Anker are going to sue each
other to death or what else is happening I don’t understand who anyone
on the list is anymore or why all of them are posting. It looks like
drug addicted Hollyweird has moved into Mindvox. Maybe it was always
there and only now started to spit hate 😉

Your 10 minute long ibogaine show is on the front page of the Drudge
Report, CSI is airing it before or after their ibogaine episode or everyone
will sue each other instead it’s not coherent on the list right now,
much hate 😉

Much love to both of you, no matter how much hate and jealosy it caused
the two of you just did the best ibogaine show that’s ever aired and
you have more people seeing this then if it was on the cover of both
the NY and LA times.

Both of you deserve it. Right on! Right on! Maybe you’ll get a soap opera
together 🙂

Peace out,
Curtis

Patrick this might be a bad time to ask and I know it’s a sensitive topic
for you but I want you for my thesis. You are the Hubris-Nemesis complex
and I’m going to have a great thesis!!!!!! Hacker vs. the secret service
and FBI, you won. Junkie to street corner and back from the dead into
the middle of mainstream america. Right on! Right on! You’re both amazing!

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:13:39 -0800 crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
I think the Deborah and Patrick show just got more viewers then the
CSI
ibogaine episode. Or the CSI episode is about to get more viewers
because
of the Deborah and Patrick show 😉

The Drudge Report: 244

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=drudgereport.com

I think the Kerry and Dean threads are coming back to life because
I
think ibogaine just became a very important topic in the next election.
If it didn’t, then it just got seen by more people then anything
I’ve
seen on ibogaine in the whole time I’ve known it exists.

Peace out and victory!
Curtis

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:05:22 -0800 Ethan Straffin <drumz@best.com>
wrote:

On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:45  PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to finally
get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first
time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right,

and
while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults
who
request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work
like a
magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of
those
who
do
try it.

Wow, Preston…tough crowd.  This part really doesn’t do it for
you?  😉


Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom
it does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,

you
need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.

Ethan

Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and
I will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr.
Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked
the

withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective
for
heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four
to
six
hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she

describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,

something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And
we saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever

worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial
of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well
what
happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing,

you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction

leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I
had

actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was
the
first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I
mean, 14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern

America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now

actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of
all
kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient
plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United

States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist

believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it
when
I
first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed
to
be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and

Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study ibogaine,

a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West
Africa
and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts
kick
their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from
the
Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high

himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr.
Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely
to
gain
the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the
cost of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime
and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It
was a
very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my
life, I
had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly
I just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because
I could
not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living
like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not
getting

high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal
so I can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction

is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return
to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their
legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment
modality,

every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits

Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr.
Mash
was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow
a
scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a

“schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists, doctors,

clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go
forward

with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to
look
into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete
her

project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island
of St.
Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were
given

carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded
the
sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and
I will
go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked
the

withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective
for
heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four
to
six
hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she

describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,

something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And
we saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever

worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial
of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well
what
happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing,

you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction

leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I
had

actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was
the
first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I
mean, 14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine
in
the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’

Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks
the
opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it
elevates

mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very
little

only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s
as
if the
plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a
person

and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior,


she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom
it
does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,

you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials,

ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer
and

somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing
over
you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa

holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going
to see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning,


says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration

next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing,

based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the
United
States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee
of
the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for
now,
that
can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

<]=———————————————————-

———
—=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com

]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com
]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————-

———
—=[>

/]=———————————————————-

———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————-

———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:

https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 21, 2004 at 12:13:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the Deborah and Patrick show just got more viewers then the CSI
ibogaine episode. Or the CSI episode is about to get more viewers because
of the Deborah and Patrick show 😉 Or the Deborah and Patrick show is
going to be picked up and carried by the stations showing CSI.

The Drudge Report: 244

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/?url=drudgereport.com

I think the Kerry and Dean threads are coming back to life because I
think ibogaine just became a very important topic in the next election.
If it didn’t, then it just got seen by more people then anything I’ve
seen on ibogaine in the whole time I’ve known it exists.

Peace out and victory!
Curtis

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 20:05:22 -0800 Ethan Straffin <drumz@best.com> wrote:

On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:45  PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to finally
get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first
time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right,
and
while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults
who
request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work
like a
magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of those
who
do
try it.

Wow, Preston…tough crowd.  This part really doesn’t do it for
you?  😉


Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom
it does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,
you
need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.

Ethan

Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and
I will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr.
Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the

withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective
for
heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to
six
hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she

describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,

something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And
we saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever

worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial
of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well
what
happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing,

you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction

leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had

actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was
the
first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I
mean, 14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern

America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now

actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of
all
kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient
plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United

States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist

believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it when
I
first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to
be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and

Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study ibogaine,

a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West
Africa
and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick
their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from
the
Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high

himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr.
Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely to
gain
the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the
cost of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It
was a
very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my
life, I
had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly
I just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because
I could
not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living
like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not getting

high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal
so I can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction

is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return
to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their
legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment modality,

every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits

Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash
was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow
a
scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a

“schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists, doctors,

clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go forward

with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to
look
into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her

project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island
of St.
Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given

carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded
the
sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and
I will
go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the

withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective
for
heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to
six
hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she

describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,

something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And
we saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever

worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial
of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well
what
happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing,

you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction

leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had

actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was
the
first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I
mean, 14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine
in
the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’

Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks
the
opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it elevates

mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very
little

only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as
if the
plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person

and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior,


she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom
it
does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,

you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials,

ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer and

somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing
over
you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa

holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going
to see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning,


says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration

next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing,

based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the
United
States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee
of
the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for now,
that
can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

<]=———————————————————–
———
—=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com

]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com
]/=-
|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=———————————————————–
———
—=[>

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 20, 2004 at 11:32:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, crashtestdummies@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is spreading like crazy. Superfreak! Patrick! Where’s the MindVox
tshirt in the photoshoot???? 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

http://www.drudgereport.com/

.:vector:.

— Ethan Straffin <drumz@best.com> wrote:

On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:45  PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to finally
get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first
time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right, and

while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults
who
request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work like
a
magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of those
who
do
try it.

Wow, Preston…tough crowd.  This part really doesn’t do it for you?
😉


Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it
does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,
you
need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.

Ethan

Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I
will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the
withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for

heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six

hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she
describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,
something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we
saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever
worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what

happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re
freezing,
you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his
addiction
leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had
actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the

first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean,
14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern
America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now
actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of all

kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient
plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United
States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist
believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it when I

first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and
Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study
ibogaine,
a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West
Africa
and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick
their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from
the
Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high
himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr. Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely to
gain
the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the cost
of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It was
a
very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my life,
I
had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly I
just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because I
could
not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living
like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not
getting
high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal so I
can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for
addiction
is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return
to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment
modality,
every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits

Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash
was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow a
scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a
“schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists,
doctors,
clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go
forward
with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to look

into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her
project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island of
St.
Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given

carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the
sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I
will
go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the
withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for

heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The
second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity
on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters

mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six

hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she
describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state,
something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking

opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we
saw
the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever
worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts

that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still
bear
the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what

happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When
you’re
going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re
freezing,
you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s
pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his
addiction
leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had
actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the

first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs
since.
“I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean,
14
to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine
in
the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’
Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks the

opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it
elevates
mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very
little

only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as if
the
plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person

and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of
behavior,”
she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it

does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need
social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry,

you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials,

ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer and
somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing
over
you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa

holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going to
see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning,”

says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug
Administration
next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing,

based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the
United
States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee
of
the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for now,
that
can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

<]=——————————————————————–

—=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com

]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-

|
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

|
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format:
drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]

<]=——————————————————————–

—=[>

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Ethan Straffin <drumz@best.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 20, 2004 at 11:05:22 PM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Friday, February 20, 2004, at 07:45  PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to finally get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right, and while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults who request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work like a magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of those who do
try it.

Wow, Preston…tough crowd.  This part really doesn’t do it for you?  😉


Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry, you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.

Ethan

Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state, something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing, you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since. “I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14 to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of all kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it when I first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study ibogaine, a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West Africa and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from the Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr. Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely to gain the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the cost of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It was a very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my life, I had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly I just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because I could not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not getting high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal so I can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment modality, every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow a scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a “schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists, doctors,
clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go forward with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to look into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island of St. Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state, something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing, you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since. “I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14 to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine in the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’ Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks the opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it elevates mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very little —
only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as if the plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior,” she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry, you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials, ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer and somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing over you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going to see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning,” says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee of the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for now, that can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

<]=———————————————————————–=[>
[           Moderated by: Preston Peet | http://www.drugwar.com           ]
|          -=/[ To Subscribe: drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com ]/=-          |
|             To Unsubscribe: drugwar-unsubscribe@mindvox.com             |
[   DrugWar List in Digest Format: drugwar-digest-subscribe@mindvox.com   ]
<]=———————————————————————–=[>

/]=———————————————————————=[\[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!
Date: February 20, 2004 at 10:45:45 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Didn’t it take a couple tries with ibogaine for Patrick to finally get
unsprung for as long as he has now and not actually that first time?
Patrick?
If so, this information in the article is not quite right, and while I
personally want ibogaine available legally to any and all adults who request
it, I wish it had been made clear here it doesn’t always work like a magic
bullet, even as miraculous as it can work for quite a few of those who do
try it.
Vigilius Haufniensis posted at DrugWar.com:

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will
go to my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state, something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing, you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since. “I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14 to 30
is a long time,” he says.<

Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:56 PM
Subject: [drugwar] LINKED FROM DRUDGE!

http://www.kron4.com/Global/story.asp?S=1652207&nav=5D7iKvRG

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction

BAY AREA (KRON) — Drug addiction has been the plague of modern America. But
that could now change forever. What started as a rumor may now actually be
an incredible breakthrough in the battle against addictions of all kinds.
Ibogaine has a number of strikes against it:
It doesn’t come from a modern laboratory, but from an ancient plant.
It was discovered not by a scientist, but by a heroin addict.
It is mildly hallucinogenic and completely illegal in the United States.
However, when it comes to curing addiction, a reputable scientist believes
ibogaine is nothing short of a miracle. “I didn’t believe it when I first
heard about ibogaine. I thought it was something that needed to be
debunked,” admits Dr. Deborah Mash, professor of Neurology and Molecular and
Cellular Pharmacology at University of Miami.
Dr. Mash is one of the few scientists in the world to study ibogaine, a mild
hallucinogen that comes from the root of a shrub found in West Africa and
was rumored to have the amazing ability to help drug addicts kick their
addiction.
“This didn’t come from the Salk Institute, this didn’t come from the Scripps
Institute. This came from a junkie who took a dose to get high himself. So
the original observation came from the underground,” says Dr. Mash.
Observations from this particular underground are not likely to gain the
respect of mainstream society, and ibogaine was no exception.
That first report came in 1962. But decades would pass with little
scientific investigation. There were decades during which the cost of
addiction in terms of medical care, lost productivity, crime and
incarceration rose to $160 billion a year.
The human toll was impossible to calculate.
Patrick Kroupa was a heroin addict for 16 of his 35 years. “It was a very
high level of desperation. I had been pretty successful in my life, I had
accomplished a lot of things I wanted to do, and then repeatedly I just
watched everything burst into flames and disintegrate because I could not
stay off heroin,” confesses Patrick. “It gets very tiring living like a
slave because you keep chasing this and it’s like you’re not getting high,
it’s just ‘I must do this every single day just to get normal so I can
function.'”
Like most addicts, Patrick tried to quit. But treatment for addiction is
notoriously ineffective. Only one in ten addicts manages to return to a
drug-free life. Most stay dependent on illegal drugs or their legal
substitutes, like methadone.
“And I was a spectacular failure at every possible treatment modality, every
paradigm, every detox, every therapy, nothing ever worked,” admits Patrick.
Even as Patrick Kroupa despaired of ever kicking heroin, Dr. Mash was
petitioning the Federal Food and Drug Administration to allow a scientific
test of ibogaine, which by this time had been classified as a “schedule one”
drug on a par with heroin. In 1993, the FDA approval came through.
“We were established, we had a team of research scientists, doctors,
clinicians, psychiatrists, toxicologists and we wanted to go forward with
this,” describes Dr. Mash.
But even with FDA approval, Dr. Mash could not get funding to look into what
was, after all, a counter-culture drug. In order to complete her project,
she had to leave South Florida and go offshore, to the island of St. Kitts.
In 1998, clinical trials finally got underway. Patients were given carefully
prepared oral doses of ibogaine. What happened next astounded the sceptical
scientist.
“Our first round in St. Kitts, we treated six individuals, and I will go to
my grave with the memory of that first round,” says Dr. Mash.
It quickly became apparent that one dose of ibogaine blocked the withdrawal
symptoms of even hard-core addicts and was amazingly effective for heroin,
crack cocaine and even alcohol.
There are two reasons why: The first, science can measure. The second
remains a mystery.
Dr. Mash admits, “I was really scared. I questioned my own sanity on
numerous occasions.”
“I don’t like the word ‘hallucinogen,’ but indeed, ibogaine alters mental
state. And what it seems to do is it puts people into a four to six hour
state of almost an active dream, it’s like a lucid dream.” she describes.
But as Dr. Mash was about to discover, during that dream state, something
extraordinary happens. “We knew ibogaine was effective for blocking opiate
withdrawal, we saw it diminish the desire to use alcohol. And we saw the
cravings for cocaine blocked. I was hooked,” she says.
Patrick admits, “It’s literally like a miracle. Nothing has ever worked and
this just did.” He was one of the 280 people in Dr. Mash’s trial of
ibogaine.
“Patrick was one of the worst opiate addicts, worst heroin addicts that I
have ever enountered in my life,” says Dr. Mash. His arms still bear the
scars of years of heroin addiction, and he knows only too well what happened
when the flow of drugs into those arms was interrupted. “When you’re going
through withdrawal, you’re sweating, you’re shaking, you’re freezing, you’re
hot, it feels like your spine is being smashed in a vise, it’s pain,”
describes Patrick.
Within 45 minutes of taking ibogaine, he actually felt his addiction leaving
him. “That moment is the first time in about 10 years that I had actually
been clean. Not just detoxed, but clean. That was it. That was the first
time. That was like a miracle,” says Patrick
That was four years ago. Patrick Kroupa has not touched drugs since. “I’m
saying this having been on heroin for my entire adult life. I mean, 14 to 30
is a long time,” he says.
On one level, Dr. Mash understands some of what happens. Ibogaine in the
body is metabolized into another compound called ‘noribogaine.’ Noribogaine
appears to reset chemical switches in the brain of an addict.
“The noribogaine resets that, so it resets the opiates, blocks the opiate
withdrawal, diminishes craving and the desire to use, and it elevates mood,”
say Dr. Mash.
But of the “visions” that people see, Dr. Mash understands very little —
only that they are somehow significant to the outcome. “It’s as if the plant
is teaching you something fundamental about who you are as a person and why
you’ve got yourself locked into this intractible pattern of behavior,” she
says.
Ibogaine will not work for everyone. And even for those for whom it does
work, it is not a “magic bullet.” “You need treatment, you need social
workers, you need case management, you need medication, psychiatry, you need
the whole boat of professionalism around this,” says Dr. Mash.
But for Patrick Kroupa and many of the other addicts in the trials, ibogaine
was a miracle. “It’s like if you suffer from terminal cancer and somebody
goes by and says, ‘Oh, yeah, we cured that. We passed this thing over you
and it’s gone,'” he says.
Even the reserved scientist believes this ancient drug from Africa holds
astounding promise for the modern world. “I think we’re going to see
fantastic numbers. I think these numbers are going to be stunning,” says Dr.
Mash.
Dr. Mash will present her findings to the Food and Drug Administration next
month. She hopes the FDA will eventually authorize further testing, based on
her results. In the meantime, ibogaine remains illegal in the United States.
Ibogaine is advertised on the internet, but there is no guarantee of the
quality unless it’s given under medical supervision. And for now, that can
only be done overseas.
For ibogaine detox information, contact Healing Transitions at
1-888-426-4286 or www.Ibogaine.net

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 20, 2004 at 6:05:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m the guy the writer of the CSI show knows.

The writer is Jerry Stahl, author of “Permanent Midnight.”  He is quite simply an AA nazi. He was telling me how he still craves dope constantly, so I’m like why not try ibogaine? So he bases the script on me telling him about ibogaine. I guess he thought it better to make loads of money and smear it instead of trying it… who knows, we can’t judge until watching the finished show. Also, once he decided to write the script, he stopped all contact with me. Another friend who is a producer on the show told me about it in December, and promised to make it “scientifically accurate.” When I called Jerry about him writing an ibogaine script, he sheepishly responded that he doesn’t like to be “influenced by people with an agenda.” He promised me that the script was “respectful to the root.”

On the plus side I have his contact info, as well as several of the other writers and producers on the show. Let’s wait for the show to air and bombard them if it’s shit.

Now, let me get this straight: iboga (a disjointed, chaotic and bitchy group of people who like to fight) is a cult and AA is the only salvation? Hmmm… How come ‘they’ all say exactly the same thing?

I  never wish for anyone to relapse, however… Jerry told me if gets strung out again he’d come “knocking at my door for help.” He keeps getting strung out like clockwork. When he was filming “Permanent Midnight” an ode to his kicking dope via the 12 steps he couldn’t keep from poking a needle into his arm. Glad AA works so well for him.

Best,

Steve Anker.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:52:42 -0500

according to the call, which I’ve done exactly zero calling around to verify
the veracity of (though the pedigree of the story is interesting and I’d
give some credence to in other cases) , the episode was put together by some
12-step adherent who met some people who’d used ibogaine in Mexico, and the
12-stepper didn’t like the idea of their having used a psyhedelic to get off
drugs- if I understood the call correctly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week

> Yikes,
>
> guess the preview never showed it like that.
>
> But I guess the only positive is the there is no such thing as bad press.
>
> but cult, common.
>
> peace
>
> Preston Peet wrote:
>
> >It’s apparently about a guy who is running around killing people as he’s
> >trying to start some kind of treatment cult using a dangerous psychedelic
> >called ibogaine, according to the phone call I got tonight about the
show. I
> >have grave and serious doubts it’s going to be at all good for the image
of
> >ibogaine, if the person who called is anywhere near correct.
> >Peace,
> >Preston
> >
> >
> >—– Original Message —–
> >From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
> >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> >Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:59 AM
> >Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Was just watching this weeks episode of CSI, and they previewed next
> >>week, with a person being investigating for giving away Ibogaine for
> >>addictions treatment.
> >>
> >>looks like it is a good representation of ibogaine.
> >>
> >>Hope it helps to make more people aware.
> >>
> >>peace and luv
> >>kevyn
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>/]=———————————————————————=[\
> >
> >
> >> [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
> >>
> >>
> ><)[%]
> >
> >
>
>\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
> >
\]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

_________________________________________________________________
Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 5:45:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

I was going to take this off the list but maybe someone will learn something. It is a rough thing to be in pain, it is rougher to have drug problems and have to take pain medication. I have enough reason to be making this a lot worse than it is, the ibo helped me not do that and more.

The ibo has helped my pain but not exactly directly. It increased my tolerence to pain medication (opiates). It increase my ability to control how I use the meds, as in not fuck around with them (real bad for receptors and keeping a low tolerence). I generally take 1/2 perc at a time (someitmes on top of 10mg oxycontin), if I need more I keep doing more, slowly, then add “things”, 1/4th valium, 1/4th Soma (which I always use) but only to the point it will help – but very slowly, it may take me an hour to get pain under control without stomping on it. I try not to get on top of the pain with meds unless necessary.  I have daily pain plus attacks, it is worse in the summer, I go off meds in the winter (so it seems). I take what I need, in the summer I was on 40mg oxy plus maybe 5mg on a good day, over a couple weeks I would be over 100mg, I would have to bring the dose further and further UP for it to help the pain. When the worst of it breaks, I drop right back to 40mg – quite suddenly, my point is there were no rattles other than some withdrawal (I ignored), I was not addicted to 100mg of oxycontin, there was no fear, no doubt, I just stopped putting the extra meds in my mouth, it wasn’t even a thought. Sometimes I would skip a dose now and then, forgetting sometimes before going to sleep, I initially would wake up (covered in sweat, a weak wet gumby), then not, then I skipped now and then on good days on purpose, get use to it… Then, I stopped getting wtihdrawal (gee, if that is any help to you), I am me and you are you, my point is that certainly you can decrease some of the side effects to drug use by more directed use – and keeping them out of your HEAD. Like if I was “habituated” and something happened, I couldn’t get my meds… Hey, all I have to deal with is the pain from whatever I have, not the pain PLUS some drug addiction crap bouncing around in my head making me 10 times more uncomfortable than I wound be if my head shut the fuck up (which I dare say I have mastered). The ibogaine gave me that control, that ability to stand outside myself, to see the bigger picture, to see the details of what is happening, how I am reacting to putting shit in my body.  I absolutely LOVE stopping, be in pain and habituated or not, when the pain eases up, man I stop and as soon as the junk is out of me, I don’t get sick any longer, I start to glow – that doesn’t mean I am not withdrawing, I have to take it easy, I just don’t turn into a nut-case, get sick/sweaty as I would have. It is a bit like my spinal cord injury. I had terrible balance (duh) but practice Yoga balance postures, now the balance is wonderful.. So too can someone push a bit against the mind/body effects of stopping drugs, get use to it. Early in the summer I had a problem with blood levels dipping (and going into WD), I was fragile to say the least, get the emotional rug pulled out ya know by the end of the summer that no-longer happened. Sure I could have stayed on whatever the doctor prescribed and come to some day with one big HORRIBLE withdrawal – that I woudn’t get anyway, but… It would have been certainly worse than it was and if I needed to I would have done ibo. Here I have (a plane ride away) access to the most potent anti-addictive ever discovered (way ahead of FDA trials) and I have this thing against using it for self detoxing – but then I had done a dozen doses before it came up, so it doesn’t come up (I guess).

That is what the ibogaine gave me. I am not fucking with the drug and the drug is not fucking with me, and I can’t if I am going to use it for pain meds. Ibogaine made that easier, gave me control and allowed me to use pain meds more effectively. Again, you are you and me be me and again, Just don’t ask me to THINK about controlling or what I take when, makes me nuts and uncomfortable, like ex-druggie trying to watch his meds uncomfortable. I just go with the flow of the pain and listen to my body for the mostpart, that, ibogaine gave me. Without a thought I am sure I could just go on automatic, take whatever/whenever, I would have no more problems than a non-addict,. most likely lessl

All that said does not mean I don’t have screaming, flailing till I break something (5 stiches last time, glad I sew well), agony  it means I can draw a little more out of the pain medication within their limited abilities. Had I gone back on oxy I would not have waken up, I took perc’s and they wore off when I was asleep and in a great deal of pain. OOPS. It is like I have to push myself to take meds, vs the other thing I use to do… know what I mean.

In a yes/no, I give it a “yes”, ibogaine DOES help pain, meaning some/sometimes/some kinds, indirectly, sort of way.

I sure hope that helps.
Brett

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi Brett,
I was wondering about you the other day, wondering where you’d gotten
yourself to.

>What is your height/weight?<

I’m back up to about 140 now.

>You need to know your liver enzymes before figuring out the answer to your
question.<

I don’t know the answer to this question, having not had blood work done in
some while, not a biopsy to see at what state my liver itself is at either.

>Are you on opiates?<

Yes

>…can you come off to do ibo or do you want to use ibo to bring you off –
or what?<

Not sure what I want- I want no freakin’ pain anymore. I’m really tired of
endless discomfort and outright agony. I’m still curious about ibogaine, but
then of course, coming off pain meds with it would still do nothing for the
pain that I’ve heared about yet. So again, I don’t know what I want.

>DId you have any particular reason for wanting to use ibogaine? If not, the
ibogaine will figure it out when you get there. <

Exploration, detoxing (if it comes to that- see above comment), curiosity,
personal examination.

>Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe
Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes clear,
everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow – especially
at your SO…<

This sounds interesting, and I’d not ever heared this before. Howard, would
you give some more info on this please?

> I think we already said this but take Milk Thistle product for your
liver.<

Yep, I am, thanks for the reminder and for taking the time to write me out a
very thoughtful and detailed reply.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

Preston,

Here is my 2 cents on Livers and Ibo, pain issues, some meds that do strange
things (to me)

Ibogaine will not do damage to a liver however a damaged liver may cause
problems in metabolizing ibogaine (to nor-ibogaine).

As far as I know any liver enzyme testing typically would be done before
getting to any treatment provider (if they do of course), it doesn’t do much
good to get there and and not be able to do ibogaine.

Generally most people with liver damage including Hep C can safely take
ibogaine even with elevated liver enzyme levels, over 2X normal I would be
extra careful watching them on a test dose bring it down a bit to start,
over 3X normal they should either not have it done or done very carefully,
as in closely monitored, a smaller dose could be used and/or increase the
dose a few hundred mg’s at a time and watch them. If there were severe liver
damage one should still be able to use small amounts of ibogaine safely, it
may not be an instant “detox” but even a couple hundred mg’s will help cut
withdrawals and continued small doses can be given over several days time.

Then there is the over-all physical condition to consider, is the person
pretty healthy otherwise or is their overall health poor. Are they currently
addicted or un-addicted and want to try ibogaine (with liver damage) and
what is the task (to stop smoking perhaps, or just check the stuff out),
Often a little tune-up dose that even experienced ibo people find to have a
lot more of a kick (if they are clean at the time) than they expected is
about 350mg. It is HIGHLY LIKELY that you could try a dose at least at this
level. Though you are unlikely to OD while on pain meds at prescription
doses I wouldn’t take any or lighten it up – nothing with Tylenol in it or
Codeine. If you are on pain meds and try ibogaine, it is highly likely to be
more disgusting and with fewer visions/different/darker. IMO, IMO, IMO, more
likely than not. The doses also accumulate, if you were off meds and did a
low dose and say a few weeks later another, you would be more sensitive. If
you w! ere trying to detox, didn’t do enough ibo, did it again and again
that way, you would just get use to continued “using” after doing ibo, you
would be less sensitive to its anti-addictive properties (in your head
anyway). I don’t know about doing ibo while on meds, I just never did it
while on any or near the time I was.

So for instance if someone was addicted, had a bad liver they MAY be able
to do 10mg safer than a full dose, it will still detox, this could be
followed by another 10-12mg dose after – it is likely the patient would be
overall healthier after and can take slightly more. Doing it that way will
tend to split the effects of ibogaine more into DOSE1 does the physical
addiction, dose2 starts on the head, 10mg for an active addict won’t have
the kick for most. What I am saying is there are adjustments that can be
made – ie feed someone 100mg at a time to keep the WD symptoms more
tolerable or combine it with a weaning, but not likely on the emotions of a
do-it-yourselfer-addict at home.

I know I am over-due, was on meds all summer. The WORST where the
non-addictive ones, the AED’s (Antiepileptic Drugs) really wacked me out, I
am still not right. If I can get away a small ibo session would unclog my
receptors, seems like I have some shit stuck some of em. A guess for me
would be 3-500mg should do the trick, I am in no mood for 12mg/kg+ dose
(about 800mg for me).

After taking ibo, pain meds felt different (opiates), I cared for them a lot
less, it felt differently, rather indifferent to them as “drugs” to the
point of disliking them. During an ibogaine session is that there is a
(certain) feeling of detachment from issues, so that people “see” the
issues for what they are. After doing ibo (even over a year later) that
ability to observe and detach from say withdrawal or anger, to not get stuck
in it (yeah, it still happens, you just see it/change it quicker/better
usually), Things I use to struggle with (pain meds) are far easier, there is
total control, I can use a lot less pain meds both because tolerence is
lower from ibo and the more measured application of pain meds (ie do not
spike blood levels), I have discovered the concept of AS NEEDED is different
than the one I grew up with, so I need less. It is easier for me to see when
a pain med will help and when it won’t, sometimes I have to tell myself to
take s! omething, less often not to. Another for instance was the end of
this summer when the pain eased up (and something else broke, of course!) I
felt the pain meds were DISGUSTING, I couldn’t help but stop (oxycontin).
Had used on and off pain meds since but near zero impulse to take another
pill for anything but pain regardkess if it is in the middle of detoxing. ie
I can be detoxing, say OUCH, my back hurts, take a pill (have it work) and
then go on withdrawing like nothing, like a normal person. That is (for me)
after multiple treatments with ibo and I do have a normal high tolerence for
the discomfort of withdrawal..

Next time a doctor smiles at me and says “we are going to try you on some
nice non-addictive meds”, he is going to get punched in the nose.

Topamax, I didn’t know where I was, stopped feeling parts of my body (side
left hand) lots of visual disturbances (not un-ibo like open-eyed stuff) and
it appears to have some anti-addictive effects, not unexpected for this
class of drugs.I had to stop, I couldn’t take the strangeness.

Lamictil, a different stangeness, the TWILIGHT ZONE, the room started
moving, felt like I was going to start tripping out. BAD DRUG,seemed to make
pain meds not work (I wasn’t on any at the time,but after I stopped). I
didn’t care, so what I am clean kind of don’t care, flat.It also seemed to
eat the ibogaine effects in me. Usually I can put myself in ibo-space, draw
on it but after the lamictil, nada. I had wild almost-cravings, wanted a
cigarette, upped my coffee/sugar intake 30 times normal… Great meds, glad
I am not drinking or banging things in my arms…

Sonata, a new fangled sleeping pill my former doctor gave me (instead of
good old Valium), of course the stuff cost $3 bucks a pill but is much
safer, it is not “controlled”…
Yeah, right, it flattened me, 45 minutes later I wake up, the strangeness
begins, by 4:00 am I am having a series of short and worsening attacks,
something like “SIMON SAYS, YOU ARE NOW GOING TO EXPEND 1000 CALORIES OF
ENERGY, LIKE IT OR NOT. SIMON SAYS…”. Thankfully I had some natural herbal
product in the house that saved my ass.He is fired,I have valium – wonderful
drug!!!!! And a real pain doc (I take 1/4th of a 5mg at a time on top of
pain meds when it gets bad) Give me them old fashioned Rock and Roll period
drugs any day, I know what I am dealing with. A lot about these new drugs is
to keep people from abusing them as well as certain side effects (depression
with valium overuse).

You have liver problems, injuries and other health issues (your
weight/stature), pain and pain meds to consider, toss in where you are at
and how much you do and of what kind of ibogaine and POOF, on that day you
will have X experience, whatever it is. I never had 2 ibogaine experiences
the same and never met anyone who did. In a clean person, I have seen
profound realizations on as little as 12 mg, or people do maximum doses with
little effect – the more fucked up you are, the more you are likely to need
to get whatever job done. If you are NORMALLY a fucked up person, you are
going to be a FUCKED UP PERSON who realizes it, maybe. If you are fucked up
because of stuff in your life, it is likely ibogaine will facilitate getting
un-fucked (up?) rather nicely.

What changed about pain meds? After ibogaine and the pain being such that I
had no choice but to go on them I made certain decisions, I am gonna this
and I am not gonna some other things. It is but a matter of fact that I
will, no mind fucking with the meds going on but I still don’t like to think
about it (just do it, take for pain or not). There is no out of control,
chasing pain with meds that I use to do, some kind of impulse is just gone –
the pain impulse is still there unfortunately but only if it is bad, medium
pain gets other meds (NSAIDS/SOMA) that i am on all the time anyway. Only
right after an ibogaine session NOTHING HURTS (unless you just detoxed,
maybe some kinks), usually for several days. One thing I will not do (again)
is take ibogaine when I have a headache or am in pain, I once had a cluster
headache during an ibogaine session, real bad… YOu have the option of
taking it on your terms, even if you had a lump of scar tissue where your
liver use to b! e 100mg of ibogaine will do something, so what you can’t
metabolize it, you will get a better hit on less (LOL). My stomach just
turned, yuck the stuff is disgusting.

A few last questions –

What is your height/weight?

You need to know your liver enzymes before figuring out the answer to your
question.

Are you on opiates?

Obviously you are a pain patient, the question also becomes can you come off
to do ibo or do you want to use ibo to bring you off – or what? Again, ibo
is typically different on and off opiates.

DId you have any particular reason for wanting to use ibogaine? If not, the
ibogaine will figure it out when you get there.

One other thing. it seems to get easier and easier, the body gets use to
ibogaine and of course there are fewer demons to exercise, so it is easier.
Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe
Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes clear,
everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow – especially
at your SO…

I think we already said this but take Milk Thistle product for your liver.

Brett

Preston Peet wrote:
Hi all,
I can’t remember if I’ve ever asked this specifically:

How is ibogaine on the liver? Specifically, on a liver that is swollen but
so far as I know not having cirrosis but still one that is saddled with Hep
C? I am wondering simply because I do still have the desire to someday take
ibogaine, but am seriously hesitant due to my liver situation. Please, if
anyone can give me real info on the subject, if there’s been any sort of
research at all into this particular point, I’d be very appreciative.
Do they test for Hep-C at IbogaTherapyHouse, and if so, is it taken into
account when deciding whether someone is eligible for treatment?
How about other places- Sara? What do you do about Hep-C patients? Do
you treat them?
Again, sorry if I’ve already asked this here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: ! “Sara Glatt”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane

> Hey Carla,
>
> No anger from me.
> It is just about having a personal view,
> which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
> I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
> No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
> feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
> only, without thinking about the patient needs.
>
> 5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even if
> they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best in
> the world.
> If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
> very very big.
> It just doesn’t work that way.
> Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
> their
> energy b! ack IS get a bag or two.
> And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
> were.
>
> It is how you look at things what is good?
> What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
> treat them all the same?
>
> People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see a
> tribe working together.
>
> S.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> —–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
> Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane
>
> Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
> Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
> that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
> message which ! I related to and agreed with.
>
> I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
> has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
> different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
> kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
> messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
> don’t understand at what or who?
>
> I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
> time to time that explodes in all different directions
> but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
> this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
> disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
> list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
> Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
> Howard himself I can’t think of one time.
>
> What are you talking about?
>
> I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
> the first person to o! penly talk about what ibogaine
> did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
> years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
> their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉
>
> Carla B
>
> — Sara Glatt wrote:
> > “Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
> > of it, or the
> > realization that it can implement an addiction
> > “cure, “or the best way
> > to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
> > bring. I know I’m
> > preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
> > remember this. We
> > are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
> > other, because
> > everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
> > unknowable, and
> > therefore should profess what their initiation has
> > shown them, for the
> > good of the tribe…..
> >
> > Hey Jane I can’t agree with you on that.
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
> > They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
> > Vancouver but that isn’t
> > their idea to start with and there is no place for
> > arrogance.
> > The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
> > It is all depended on the state of mind of the
> > person who is taking the
> > treatment and not directly with the treatment
> > provider. The treatment
> > can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
> > patient is the only
> > thing that counts.
> > I have given the same kind of treatment to different
> > people but the
> > reaction was totally deferent.
> > However Howard found that ibogaine works to
> > eliminate opiate
> > withdrawals,
> > No one else did.
&! gt; > Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
> > respected
> > I can’t feel that in your writing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > “0302122190
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————
> =[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
> <)[%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————
> =[/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 4:37:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Feb 20, 2004 at 04:36:38PM -0500], [Preston Peet] wrote:

| Hmmm.
| So, we really don’t know, and there being so few in the overall scheme of
| things people having actually done ibogaine and fewer who we know had Hep C,

Completely subjective, personal opinion, not based upon any overview or
knowledge other than just knowing individuals who have dosed … : Hep C
tends to be the rule, rather than the exception, when dealing with IV drug
users.

I would guesstimate that more than half of all individuals who have ever
dosed with ibogaine — with the intent of cutting loose a habit — were
Hep C positive.

| it could be not so safe too and even dangerous…but then, walking out of my
| door onto the NYC streets isn’t safe either and can be definitely dangerous.

Yup.

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 4:36:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hmmm.
So, we really don’t know, and there being so few in the overall scheme of
things people having actually done ibogaine and fewer who we know had Hep C,
it could be not so safe too and even dangerous…but then, walking out of my
door onto the NYC streets isn’t safe either and can be definitely dangerous.
Thanks Howard.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

In a message dated 2/20/04 5:34:59 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe
Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes
clear,
everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow –
especially
at your SO…<

This sounds interesting, and I’d not ever heard this before. Howard,
would
you give some more info on this please?

Hi Preston,

There are many issues I wished I had looked at more closely over the years
but, when your schedule is busy and information is coming in from other
countries sometimes you just keep moving and don’t take the time to
evaluate
thoroughly.

Nico Adriaans <http://ibogaine.org/adriaans.html> reported HVC going into
remission after ibogaine.  However, I never went further to ask him
exactly what
he meant.  Did enzyme levels decrease?  Did viral load decrease?  What
tests
were done and the results?

There is reported and there does appear to be some antibacterial effects
of
ibogaine and possibly other adjunct effects.  Sores heal quickly after
ibogaine
therapy in many cases.  But, I have also seen some deep infections caused
by
continuous cocaine/needle use to require antibiotics in order to obtain a
response.

Needless to say, significant research should be done in many areas of
ibogaine activity but, I think we are doomed to scientific ignorance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
dir tel 718 442-2754
dir fax 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Patrick Poblete <iikaneii@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 4:34:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

unsubsribe

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 4:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, thanks for the list of herbs Sandra, my girlfriend will be glad to see
it. She finds and feeds me healthy herbs constantly.
I do have to get fresh bloodwork soon, as it has been some time now.
Thanks for the advice.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

Hey Preston,

At ITH we have all our applicants take a liver panel (AST, ALT enzymes)
test as well as EKG & CBC to begin the application process. We won’t accept
anyone with 200% above normal values, cause we really don’t know how to deal
with anything above that, and won’t pretend to and don’t want to hurt
anyone.

Milkthistle is excellent, can get you detoxing emotionally though, i’ve
been told.

Comfrey I’ve not heard of as being used specifically for liver issues but
I wouldn’t be surprised as it’s an amazing plant -can be wildcrafted here in
B.C.

Generally my own personal list of blood/liver cleansers/detoxifiers can
include (mostly fresh and in salads or in tea form):

red clover
watercress
parsley (like tabouleh salad?)
wheatgrass (juice)

These may or may not have any direct effect on the liver but have seemed
to be helpful nonetheless in friends who have Hep C.

more on this later…


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just
US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Policymakers.
Date: February 20, 2004 at 3:43:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bush administration “distorts science,” says report
Thursday, February 19, 2004
By Maggie Fox, Reuters


WASHINGTON – Top scientists and environmentalists accused the Bush administration Wednesday of suppressing and distorting scientific findings that run counter to its own policies.

They backed a report from the Union of Concerned Scientists that said the administration had suppressed research on global warming, air quality, sexual health, cancer, and other issues.

The report said there had been a systematic effort to manipulate the government’s supposedly independent scientific advisory system “to prevent the appearance of advice that might run counter to the administration’s political agenda.”

”We are not … taking issue with the administration’s policies,” said Dr. Kurt Gottfried, a professor of physics at Cornell University and chairman of the UCS. “We are taking issue with the administration’s distortion of the process with which science enters into its decisions.”

Russell Train, head of the Environmental Protection Agency under former Republican presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford, said that during his tenure “I do not recall ever receiving a suggestion, let alone an order, >from the White House as to how I should make a regulatory decision. How times have changed.”

Neal Lane of Rice University in Houston and former science adviser to ex-president Bill Clinton said scientific findings were being kept from decision-makers.

”I am afraid that our leading policymakers simply don’t know what they don’t know given the manipulation of the science advice process,” Lane told reporters.

White House Denial

The White House denied the accusations.

”I can assure you that this is an administration that makes decisions based on the best available science,” President Bush’s spokesman Scott McClellan said.

”I just don’t think these incidents or issues add up to strong support for the accusation that this administration is deliberately acting to undermine the processes of science,” said John Marburger, director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

Marburger noted that the group making the complaints included esteemed scientists and said the government obviously needed to do a better job of communicating its policies.

The UCS reviewed long-standing complaints that the federal government had deliberately disregarded a worldwide consensus that human industrial activity is to blame for much of the steady warming of the planet’s climate over the past century.

It also cited what it called the suppression of an EPA study that found the bipartisan Senate Clear Air Bill would do more to reduce mercury contamination in fish and would prevent more deaths than the administration’s proposed Clear Skies Act would.

”This is akin to the White House directing the National Weather Service to alter a hurricane forecast because they want everyone to think we have clear skies ahead,” said UCS president Kevin Knobloch.

Public health groups have long complained that the White House changed advice >from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to support the administration’s abstinence-only sex education policy.

They have said it removed from the CDC’s Web site a CDC fact sheet on condom use.

”I don’t know anything about that,” Marburger said.


(With additional reporting by Steve Holland)

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] No spleen and IBOGA
Date: February 20, 2004 at 3:34:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Planteur!
I am a Practical Nurse but far from being a doctor so take the following as just another opinion! I would certainly have your friend talk to his Doc before Ibogaine is administered.
The spleen is part of the immune system. It has two primary functions. The spleen acts as a filter, removing old red blood cells and RBC inclusions. The spleen also acts as a storage area for platelets.
The spleen can be considered as two organs in one; it filters the blood and removes abnormal cells (such as old and defective red blood cells), and it makes disease-fighting components of the immune system (including antibodies and lymphocytes).
I really don’t see how Ibogaine would be contraindicated but as I said before….ask the Doc!
Peace! Is Planteur your given name?
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:55:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/20/04 5:34:59 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe
Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes clear,
everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow – especially
at your SO…<

This sounds interesting, and I’d not ever heard this before. Howard, would
you give some more info on this please?

Hi Preston,

There are many issues I wished I had looked at more closely over the years
but, when your schedule is busy and information is coming in from other
countries sometimes you just keep moving and don’t take the time to evaluate
thoroughly.

Nico Adriaans <http://ibogaine.org/adriaans.html> reported HVC going into
remission after ibogaine.  However, I never went further to ask him exactly what
he meant.  Did enzyme levels decrease?  Did viral load decrease?  What tests
were done and the results?

There is reported and there does appear to be some antibacterial effects of
ibogaine and possibly other adjunct effects.  Sores heal quickly after ibogaine
therapy in many cases.  But, I have also seen some deep infections caused by
continuous cocaine/needle use to require antibiotics in order to obtain a
response.

Needless to say, significant research should be done in many areas of
ibogaine activity but, I think we are doomed to scientific ignorance.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
dir tel 718 442-2754
dir fax 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:29:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

At ITH we have all our applicants take a liver panel (AST, ALT enzymes) test as well as EKG & CBC to begin the application process. We won’t accept anyone with 200% above normal values, cause we really don’t know how to deal with anything above that, and won’t pretend to and don’t want to hurt anyone.

Milkthistle is excellent, can get you detoxing emotionally though, i’ve been told.

Comfrey I’ve not heard of as being used specifically for liver issues but I wouldn’t be surprised as it’s an amazing plant -can be wildcrafted here in B.C.

Generally my own personal list of blood/liver cleansers/detoxifiers can include (mostly fresh and in salads or in tea form):

red clover
watercress
parsley (like tabouleh salad?)
wheatgrass (juice)

These may or may not have any direct effect on the liver but have seemed to be helpful nonetheless in friends who have Hep C.

more on this later…


_______________________________________________
Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

Powered by Outblaze

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] look what i found
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:13:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

look what i foundhttp://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml
snip-
Grissom and Brass question Jake Sinclair, a former junkie and convict who
now runs a rehab center. Sinclair uses the drug Ibogaine to force addicts to
face their demons. The treatment worked so well for Burnell that he became a
changed man, not only kicking his addictions but becoming spiritual as well.
But Burnell’s desire to help others with similar problems led him into
dangerous territory…
Please note that the above plot details have not been confirmed by CBS,
Alliance Atlantis or Bruckheimer Films, and until such time you should treat
this information as you would any other rumour. The above information comes
from an early draft of the script and details may change before the episode
goes to air. <
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:56 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] look what i found

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml down

do

down at the end; also:

Detox Naturally
Addiction Treatment
Medically Supervised Detox
www.addictionfoundation.com
Interest:

when I was browsing the web and did a ggogle search on ibogaine. Try csi +
ibogaine above information comes from an early draft of the script and
details may change before the episode goes to air.

“Getting Off” will likely air in spring of 2004.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] look what i found
Date: February 20, 2004 at 12:43:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana, I copied and pasted the link but it wouldn’t work.
May be me. I am going to reboot.
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 12:33:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Brett,
I was wondering about you the other day, wondering where you’d gotten
yourself to.

What is your height/weight?<

I’m back up to about 140 now.

You need to know your liver enzymes before figuring out the answer to your
question.<

I don’t know the answer to this question, having not had blood work done in
some while, not a biopsy to see at what state my liver itself is at either.

Are you on opiates?<

Yes

…can you come off to do ibo or do you want to use ibo to bring you off –
or what?<

Not sure what I want- I want no freakin’ pain anymore. I’m really tired of
endless discomfort and outright agony. I’m still curious about ibogaine, but
then of course, coming off pain meds with it would still do nothing for the
pain that I’ve heared about yet. So again, I don’t know what I want.

DId you have any particular reason for wanting to use ibogaine? If not, the
ibogaine will figure it out when you get there. <

Exploration, detoxing (if it comes to that- see above comment), curiosity,
personal examination.

Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe
Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes clear,
everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow – especially
at your SO…<

This sounds interesting, and I’d not ever heared this before. Howard, would
you give some more info on this please?

I think we already said this but take Milk Thistle product for your
liver.<

Yep, I am, thanks for the reminder and for taking the time to write me out a
very thoughtful and detailed reply.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

Preston,

Here is my 2 cents on Livers and Ibo, pain issues, some meds that do strange
things (to me)

Ibogaine will not do damage to a liver however a damaged liver may cause
problems in metabolizing ibogaine (to nor-ibogaine).

As far as I know any liver enzyme testing typically would be done before
getting to any treatment provider (if they do of course), it doesn’t do much
good to get there and and not be able to do ibogaine.

Generally most people with liver damage including Hep C can safely take
ibogaine even with elevated liver enzyme levels, over 2X normal I would be
extra careful watching them on a test dose bring it down a bit to start,
over 3X normal they should either not have it done or done very carefully,
as in closely monitored, a smaller dose could be used and/or increase the
dose a few hundred mg’s at a time and watch them. If there were severe liver
damage one should still be able to use small amounts of ibogaine safely, it
may not be an instant “detox” but even a couple hundred mg’s will help cut
withdrawals and continued small doses can be given over several days time.

Then there is the over-all physical condition to consider, is the person
pretty healthy otherwise or is their overall health poor. Are they currently
addicted or un-addicted and want to try ibogaine (with liver damage) and
what is the task (to stop smoking perhaps, or just check the stuff out),
Often a little tune-up dose that even experienced ibo people find to have a
lot more of a kick (if they are clean at the time) than they expected is
about 350mg. It is HIGHLY LIKELY that you could try a dose at least at this
level. Though you are unlikely to OD while on pain meds at prescription
doses I wouldn’t take any or lighten it up – nothing with Tylenol in it or
Codeine. If you are on pain meds and try ibogaine, it is highly likely to be
more disgusting and with fewer visions/different/darker. IMO, IMO, IMO, more
likely than not.  The doses also accumulate, if you were off meds and did a
low dose and say a few weeks later another, you would be more sensitive. If
you w! ere trying to detox, didn’t do enough ibo, did it again and again
that way, you would just get use to continued “using” after doing ibo, you
would be less sensitive to its anti-addictive properties (in your head
anyway). I don’t know about doing ibo while on meds, I just never did it
while on any or near the time I was.

So for instance if someone was addicted, had a bad liver they MAY be able
to do 10mg safer than a full dose, it will still detox, this could be
followed by another 10-12mg dose after – it is likely the patient would be
overall healthier after and can take slightly more. Doing it that way will
tend to split the effects of ibogaine more into DOSE1 does the physical
addiction, dose2 starts on the head, 10mg for an active addict won’t have
the kick for most. What I am saying is there are adjustments that can be
made – ie feed someone 100mg at a time to keep the WD symptoms more
tolerable or combine it with a weaning, but not likely on the emotions of a
do-it-yourselfer-addict at home.

I know I am over-due, was on meds all summer. The WORST where the
non-addictive ones, the AED’s (Antiepileptic Drugs) really wacked me out, I
am still not right. If I can get away a small ibo session would unclog my
receptors, seems like I have some shit stuck some of em. A guess for me
would be 3-500mg should do the trick, I am in no mood for 12mg/kg+ dose
(about 800mg for me).

After taking ibo, pain meds felt different (opiates), I cared for them a lot
less, it felt differently, rather indifferent to them as “drugs” to the
point of disliking them. During an ibogaine session is that there is a
(certain)  feeling of detachment from issues, so that people “see” the
issues for what they are. After doing ibo (even over a year later) that
ability to observe and detach from say withdrawal or anger, to not get stuck
in it (yeah, it still happens, you just see it/change it quicker/better
usually), Things I use to struggle with (pain meds) are far easier, there is
total control, I can use a lot less pain meds both because tolerence is
lower from ibo and the more measured application of pain meds (ie do not
spike blood levels), I have discovered the concept of AS NEEDED is different
than the one I grew up with, so I need less. It is easier for me to see when
a pain med will help and when it won’t, sometimes I have to tell myself to
take s! omething, less often not to. Another for instance was the end of
this summer when the pain eased up (and something else broke, of course!) I
felt the pain meds were DISGUSTING, I couldn’t help but stop (oxycontin).
Had used on and off pain meds since but near zero impulse to take another
pill for anything but pain regardkess if it is in the middle of detoxing. ie
I can be detoxing, say OUCH, my back hurts, take a pill (have  it work) and
then go on withdrawing like nothing, like a normal person. That is (for me)
after multiple treatments with ibo and I do have a normal high tolerence for
the discomfort of withdrawal..

Next time a doctor smiles at me and says “we are going to try you on some
nice non-addictive meds”, he is going to get punched in the nose.

Topamax, I didn’t know where I was, stopped feeling parts of my body (side
left hand) lots of visual disturbances (not un-ibo like open-eyed stuff) and
it appears to have some anti-addictive effects, not unexpected for this
class of drugs.I had to stop, I couldn’t take the strangeness.

Lamictil, a different stangeness, the TWILIGHT ZONE, the room started
moving, felt like I was going to start tripping out. BAD DRUG,seemed to make
pain meds not work (I wasn’t on any at the time,but after I stopped). I
didn’t care, so what I am clean kind of don’t care, flat.It also seemed to
eat the ibogaine effects in me. Usually I can put myself in ibo-space, draw
on it but after the lamictil, nada. I had wild almost-cravings, wanted a
cigarette, upped my coffee/sugar intake 30 times normal… Great meds, glad
I am not drinking or banging things in my arms…

Sonata, a new fangled sleeping pill my former doctor gave me (instead of
good old Valium), of course the stuff cost $3 bucks a pill but is much
safer, it is not “controlled”…
Yeah, right, it flattened me, 45 minutes later I wake up, the strangeness
begins, by 4:00 am I am having a series of short and worsening attacks,
something like “SIMON SAYS, YOU ARE NOW GOING TO EXPEND 1000 CALORIES OF
ENERGY, LIKE IT OR NOT. SIMON SAYS…”. Thankfully I had some natural herbal
product in the house that saved my ass.He is fired,I have valium – wonderful
drug!!!!! And a real pain doc (I take 1/4th of a 5mg at a time on top of
pain meds when it gets bad) Give me them old fashioned Rock and Roll period
drugs any day, I know what I am dealing with. A lot about these new drugs is
to keep people from abusing them as well as certain side effects (depression
with valium overuse).

You have liver problems, injuries and other health issues (your
weight/stature), pain and pain meds to consider, toss in where you are at
and how much you do and of what kind of ibogaine and POOF, on that day you
will have X experience, whatever it is. I never had 2 ibogaine experiences
the same and never met anyone who did. In a clean person, I have seen
profound realizations on as little as 12 mg, or people do maximum doses with
little effect – the more fucked up you are, the more you are likely to need
to get whatever job done. If you are NORMALLY a fucked up person, you are
going to be a FUCKED UP PERSON who realizes it, maybe. If you are fucked up
because of stuff in your life, it is likely ibogaine will facilitate getting
un-fucked (up?) rather nicely.

What changed about pain meds? After ibogaine and the pain being such that I
had no choice but to go on them I made certain decisions, I am gonna this
and I am not gonna some other things. It is but a matter of fact that I
will, no mind fucking with the meds going on but I still don’t like to think
about it (just do it, take for pain or not). There is no out of control,
chasing pain with meds that I use to do, some kind of impulse is just gone –
the pain impulse is still there unfortunately but only if it is bad, medium
pain gets other meds (NSAIDS/SOMA) that i am on all the time anyway. Only
right after an ibogaine session NOTHING HURTS (unless you just detoxed,
maybe some kinks), usually for several days. One thing I will not do (again)
is take ibogaine when I have a headache or am in pain, I once had a cluster
headache during an ibogaine session, real bad… YOu have the option of
taking it on your terms, even if you had a lump of scar tissue where your
liver use to b! e 100mg of ibogaine will do something, so what you can’t
metabolize it, you will get a better hit on less (LOL). My stomach just
turned, yuck the stuff is disgusting.

A few last questions –

What is your height/weight?

You need to know your liver enzymes before figuring out the answer to your
question.

Are you on opiates?

Obviously you are a pain patient, the question also becomes can you come off
to do ibo or do you want to use ibo to bring you off – or what? Again, ibo
is typically different on and off opiates.

DId you have any particular reason for wanting to use ibogaine? If not, the
ibogaine will figure it out when you get there.

One other thing. it seems to get easier and easier, the body gets use to
ibogaine and of course there are fewer demons to exercise, so it is easier.
Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe
Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes clear,
everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow – especially
at your SO…

I think we already said this but take Milk Thistle product for your liver.

Brett

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I can’t remember if I’ve ever asked this specifically:

How is ibogaine on the liver? Specifically, on a liver that is swollen but
so far as I know not having cirrosis but still one that is saddled with Hep
C? I am wondering simply because I do still have the desire to someday take
ibogaine, but am seriously hesitant due to my liver situation. Please, if
anyone can give me real info on the subject, if there’s been any sort of
research at all into this particular point, I’d be very appreciative.
Do they test for Hep-C at IbogaTherapyHouse, and if so, is it taken into
account when deciding whether someone is eligible for treatment?
How about other places- Sara? What do you do about Hep-C patients? Do
you treat them?
Again, sorry if I’ve already asked this here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: ! “Sara Glatt”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane

Hey Carla,

No anger from me.
It is just about having a personal view,
which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
only, without thinking about the patient needs.

5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even if
they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best in
the world.
If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
very very big.
It just doesn’t work that way.
Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
their
energy b! ack IS get a bag or two.
And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
were.

It is how you look at things what is good?
What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
treat them all the same?

People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see a
tribe working together.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
message which ! I related to and agreed with.

I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
don’t understand at what or who?

I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
time to time that explodes in all different directions
but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
Howard himself I can’t think of one time.

What are you talking about?

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
the first person to o! penly talk about what ibogaine
did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉

Carla B

— Sara Glatt wrote:
“Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
of it, or the
realization that it can implement an addiction
“cure, “or the best way
to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
bring. I know I’m
preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
remember this. We
are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
other, because
everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
unknowable, and
therefore should profess what their initiation has
shown them, for the
good of the tribe…..

Hey Jane I can’t agree with you on that.

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
Vancouver but that isn’t
their idea to start with and there is no place for
arrogance.
The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
It is all depended on the state of mind of the
person who is taking the
treatment and not directly with the treatment
provider. The treatment
can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
patient is the only
thing that counts.
I have given the same kind of treatment to different
people but the
reaction was totally deferent.
However Howard found that ibogaine works to
eliminate opiate
withdrawals,
No one else did.
&! gt; > Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
respected
I can’t feel that in your writing.

“0302122190

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 11:58:22 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Here is my 2 cents on Livers and Ibo, pain issues, some meds that do strange things (to me)

Ibogaine will not do damage to a liver however a damaged liver may cause problems in metabolizing ibogaine (to nor-ibogaine).

As far as I know any liver enzyme testing typically would be done before getting to any treatment provider (if they do of course), it doesn’t do much good to get there and and not be able to do ibogaine.

Generally most people with liver damage including Hep C can safely take ibogaine even with elevated liver enzyme levels, over 2X normal I would be extra careful watching them on a test dose bring it down a bit to start, over 3X normal they should either not have it done or done very carefully, as in closely monitored, a smaller dose could be used and/or increase the dose a few hundred mg’s at a time and watch them. If there were severe liver damage one should still be able to use small amounts of ibogaine safely, it may not be an instant “detox” but even a couple hundred mg’s will help cut withdrawals and continued small doses can be given over several days time.

Then there is the over-all physical condition to consider, is the person pretty healthy otherwise or is their overall health poor. Are they currently addicted or un-addicted and want to try ibogaine (with liver damage) and what is the task (to stop smoking perhaps, or just check the stuff out), Often a little tune-up dose that even experienced ibo people find to have a lot more of a kick (if they are clean at the time) than they expected is about 350mg. It is HIGHLY LIKELY that you could try a dose at least at this level. Though you are unlikely to OD while on pain meds at prescription doses I wouldn’t take any or lighten it up – nothing with Tylenol in it or Codeine. If you are on pain meds and try ibogaine, it is highly likely to be more disgusting and with fewer visions/different/darker. IMO, IMO, IMO, more likely than not.  The doses also accumulate, if you were off meds and did a low dose and say a few weeks later another, you would be more sensitive. If you were trying to detox, didn’t do enough ibo, did it again and again that way, you would just get use to continued “using” after doing ibo, you would be less sensitive to its anti-addictive properties (in your head anyway). I don’t know about doing ibo while on meds, I just never did it while on any or near the time I was.

So for instance if someone was addicted, had a bad liver they MAY be able to do 10mg safer than a full dose, it will still detox, this could be followed by another 10-12mg dose after – it is likely the patient would be overall healthier after and can take slightly more. Doing it that way will tend to split the effects of ibogaine more into DOSE1 does the physical addiction, dose2 starts on the head, 10mg for an active addict won’t have the kick for most. What I am saying is there are adjustments that can be made – ie feed someone 100mg at a time to keep the WD symptoms more tolerable or combine it with a weaning, but not likely on the emotions of a do-it-yourselfer-addict at home.

I know I am over-due, was on meds all summer. The WORST where the non-addictive ones, the AED’s (Antiepileptic Drugs) really wacked me out, I am still not right. If I can get away a small ibo session would unclog my receptors, seems like I have some shit stuck some of em. A guess for me would be 3-500mg should do the trick, I am in no mood for 12mg/kg+ dose (about 800mg for me).

After taking ibo, pain meds felt different (opiates), I cared for them a lot less, it felt differently, rather indifferent to them as “drugs” to the point of disliking them. During an ibogaine session is that there is a (certain)  feeling of detachment from issues, so that people “see” the issues for what they are. After doing ibo (even over a year later) that ability to observe and detach from say withdrawal or anger, to not get stuck in it (yeah, it still happens, you just see it/change it quicker/better usually), Things I use to struggle with (pain meds) are far easier, there is total control, I can use a lot less pain meds both because tolerence is lower from ibo and the more measured application of pain meds (ie do not spike blood levels), I have discovered the concept of AS NEEDED is different than the one I grew up with, so I need less. It is easier for me to see when a pain med will help and when it won’t, sometimes I have to tell myself to take something, less often not to. Another for instance was the end of this summer when the pain eased up (and something else broke, of course!) I felt the pain meds were DISGUSTING, I couldn’t help but stop (oxycontin). Had used on and off pain meds since but near zero impulse to take another pill for anything but pain regardkess if it is in the middle of detoxing. ie I can be detoxing, say OUCH, my back hurts, take a pill (have  it work) and then go on withdrawing like nothing, like a normal person. That is (for me) after multiple treatments with ibo and I do have a normal high tolerence for the discomfort of withdrawal..

Next time a doctor smiles at me and says “we are going to try you on some nice non-addictive meds”, he is going to get punched in the nose.

Topamax, I didn’t know where I was, stopped feeling parts of my body (side left hand) lots of visual disturbances (not un-ibo like open-eyed stuff) and it appears to have some anti-addictive effects, not unexpected for this class of drugs.I had to stop, I couldn’t take the strangeness.

Lamictil, a different stangeness, the TWILIGHT ZONE, the room started moving, felt like I was going to start tripping out. BAD DRUG,seemed to make pain meds not work (I wasn’t on any at the time,but after I stopped). I didn’t care, so what I am clean kind of don’t care, flat.It also seemed to eat the ibogaine effects in me. Usually I can put myself in ibo-space, draw on it but after the lamictil, nada. I had wild almost-cravings, wanted a cigarette, upped my coffee/sugar intake 30 times normal… Great meds, glad I am not drinking or banging things in my arms…

Sonata, a new fangled sleeping pill my former doctor gave me (instead of good old Valium), of course the stuff cost $3 bucks a pill but is much safer, it is not “controlled”…
Yeah, right, it flattened me, 45 minutes later I wake up, the strangeness begins, by 4:00 am I am having a series of short and worsening attacks, something like “SIMON SAYS, YOU ARE NOW GOING TO EXPEND 1000 CALORIES OF ENERGY, LIKE IT OR NOT. SIMON SAYS…”. Thankfully I had some natural herbal product in the house that saved my ass.He is fired,I have valium – wonderful drug!!!!! And a real pain doc (I take 1/4th of a 5mg at a time on top of pain meds when it gets bad) Give me them old fashioned Rock and Roll period drugs any day, I know what I am dealing with. A lot about these new drugs is to keep people from abusing them as well as certain side effects (depression with valium overuse).

You have liver problems, injuries and other health issues (your weight/stature), pain and pain meds to consider, toss in where you are at and how much you do and of what kind of ibogaine and POOF, on that day you will have X experience, whatever it is. I never had 2 ibogaine experiences the same and never met anyone who did. In a clean person, I have seen profound realizations on as little as 12 mg, or people do maximum doses with little effect – the more fucked up you are, the more you are likely to need to get whatever job done. If you are NORMALLY a fucked up person, you are going to be a FUCKED UP PERSON who realizes it, maybe. If you are fucked up because of stuff in your life, it is likely ibogaine will facilitate getting un-fucked (up?) rather nicely.

What changed about pain meds? After ibogaine and the pain being such that I had no choice but to go on them I made certain decisions, I am gonna this and I am not gonna some other things. It is but a matter of fact that I will, no mind fucking with the meds going on but I still don’t like to think about it (just do it, take for pain or not). There is no out of control, chasing pain with meds that I use to do, some kind of impulse is just gone – the pain impulse is still there unfortunately but only if it is bad, medium pain gets other meds (NSAIDS/SOMA) that i am on all the time anyway. Only right after an ibogaine session NOTHING HURTS (unless you just detoxed, maybe some kinks), usually for several days. One thing I will not do (again) is take ibogaine when I have a headache or am in pain, I once had a cluster headache during an ibogaine session, real bad… YOu have the option of taking it on your terms, even if you had a lump of scar tissue where your liver use to be 100mg of ibogaine will do something, so what you can’t metabolize it, you will get a better hit on less (LOL). My stomach just turned, yuck the stuff is disgusting.

A few last questions –

What is your height/weight?

You need to know your liver enzymes before figuring out the answer to your question.

Are you on opiates?

Obviously you are a pain patient, the question also becomes can you come off to do ibo or do you want to use ibo to bring you off – or what? Again, ibo is typically different on and off opiates.

DId you have any particular reason for wanting to use ibogaine? If not, the ibogaine will figure it out when you get there.

One other thing. it seems to get easier and easier, the body gets use to ibogaine and of course there are fewer demons to exercise, so it is easier. Ibogaine is also some really healthy stuff, it heals the body. I believe Howard reported cases of hep C remission after ibogaine. Skin becomes clear, everything feels like it was just oiled and tuned up, eyes glow – especially at your SO…

I think we already said this but take Milk Thistle product for your liver.

Brett

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I can’t remember if I’ve ever asked this specifically:

How is ibogaine on the liver? Specifically, on a liver that is swollen but
so far as I know not having cirrosis but still one that is saddled with Hep
C? I am wondering simply because I do still have the desire to someday take
ibogaine, but am seriously hesitant due to my liver situation. Please, if
anyone can give me real info on the subject, if there’s been any sort of
research at all into this particular point, I’d be very appreciative.
Do they test for Hep-C at IbogaTherapyHouse, and if so, is it taken into
account when deciding whether someone is eligible for treatment?
How about other places- Sara? What do you do about Hep-C patients? Do
you treat them?
Again, sorry if I’ve already asked this here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane

> Hey Carla,
>
> No anger from me.
> It is just about having a personal view,
> which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
> I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
> No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
> feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
> only, without thinking about the patient needs.
>
> 5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even if
> they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best in
> the world.
> If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
> very very big.
> It just doesn’t work that way.
> Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
> their
> energy back IS get a bag or two.
> And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
> were.
>
> It is how you look at things what is good?
> What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
> treat them all the same?
>
> People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see a
> tribe working together.
>
> S.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> —–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
> Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
> Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane
>
> Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
> Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
> that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
> message which I related to and agreed with.
>
> I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
> has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
> different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
> kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
> messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
> don’t understand at what or who?
>
> I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
> time to time that explodes in all different directions
> but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
> this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
> disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
> list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
> Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
> Howard himself I can’t think of one time.
>
> What are you talking about?
>
> I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
> the first person to openly talk about what ibogaine
> did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
> years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
> their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉
>
> Carla B
>
> — Sara Glatt wrote:
> > “Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
> > of it, or the
> > realization that it can implement an addiction
> > “cure, “or the best way
> > to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
> > bring. I know I’m
> > preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
> > remember this. We
> > are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
> > other, because
> > everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
> > unknowable, and
> > therefore should profess what their initiation has
> > shown them, for the
> > good of the tribe…..
> >
> > Hey Jane I can’t agree with you on that.
> >
> > I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
> > They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
> > Vancouver but that isn’t
> > their idea to start with and there is no place for
> > arrogance.
> > The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
> > It is all depended on the state of mind of the
> > person who is taking the
> > treatment and not directly with the treatment
> > provider. The treatment
> > can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
> > patient is the only
> > thing that counts.
> > I have given the same kind of treatment to different
> > people but the
> > reaction was totally deferent.
> > However Howard found that ibogaine works to
> > eliminate opiate
> > withdrawals,
> > No one else did.
> > Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
> > respected
> > I can’t feel that in your writing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > “0302122190
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————
> =[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
> <)[%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————
> =[/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] No spleen and IBOGA
Date: February 20, 2004 at 11:20:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is not a yes/no answer.
I wouldn’t say no to start with, but I would test
the person… before I can give you an answer.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: iboga_planteur [mailto:iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 16:48
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] No spleen and IBOGA

Hello everybidy,

I have a question to ask to annybody who has an answer…
A friend of mine who has no spleen(car accident) wishes to take iboga
for
personal growth. Is it safe???

Thank you in advance.

planteur

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] look what i found
Date: February 20, 2004 at 10:56:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.csifiles.com/news/110104_01.shtml down

do

down at the end; also:

Detox Naturally
Addiction Treatment
Medically Supervised Detox
www.addictionfoundation.com
Interest:

when I was browsing the web and did a ggogle search on ibogaine. Try csi + ibogaine above information comes from an early draft of the script and details may change before the episode goes to air.

“Getting Off” will likely air in spring of 2004.

From: “iboga_planteur” <iboga_planteur@yahoo.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] No spleen and IBOGA
Date: February 20, 2004 at 10:48:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello everybidy,

I have a question to ask to annybody who has an answer…
A friend of mine who has no spleen(car accident) wishes to take iboga for
personal growth. Is it safe???

Thank you in advance.

planteur

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Germán Caldelas <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 8:34:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara & the List
do you know Comfrey?
I was with my liver swollen a little high the direct bilirrubine, but most
important I didn´t feel it OK. I took harmala/ine and was enough to almost
kill it.
A year after during a family holiday somebody offers me “taste this to see
if you like it”, I like (it was cold in a tea form). so I drink this stuff
(but in a shake form with fresh mature and young leaves 3 in a litre of
water lemon & sugar) during a week, I felt “something” in my spleen and my
liver in the first two days, when I came back home I could eat everything
(fat, fries, coffe were things that I couldn´t enjoy since a year). and most
important I didn´t fel anymore the “puncturing” sensation I used to live
with. I got the plant, is an easy to grow and grows beautifully, it just
need some sun and water. For me was an unexpected miracle I was taken
antroposofic medicin, fasting, and all the herbs I could, during the last
years with no much results.
I did some research and it is in the Black List of the USA FDA. They claim
some sort of hepatoxicity, wich I can´t understand because definitly I
couldn´t drink a coffe without feel its chemistry in my liver, and this was
just balsamic and pleasurable sensations (is not a psycho active plant to
clear any doubt).
FDA banned  could be the best propaganda. It seems a WONDERFULL plant to
work with people so depleted of nutrients, because it has LOTS of healthy
things.

great list this a learn a lot from all of you thanks.

Germán D. Caldelas

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:11 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

Hi Preston,

Most of the people I have treated have Hep-c, few c&b&hiv
Also most of them use more then one addictive drug at the same time
Like shooting speedballs+ methadone+ benzo.

I advice to use Milk thistle -+a month before taking Ibogaine.
Also Komucha drink cleans the blood which is very helpful to the liver.
You can buy it for one dollar a bottle in N.Y
I guess you can get that at the Russians shop they call it Kwas.
people who have big health issues
will need to be tested what amount of Iboga their body/mind/spirit
can handle. It is also possible to do this test from a distance.

Greetings

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 11:58
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

Hi all,
I can’t remember if I’ve ever asked this specifically:

How is ibogaine on the liver? Specifically, on a liver that is swollen
but
so far as I know not having cirrosis but still one that is saddled with
Hep
C? I am wondering simply because I do still have the desire to someday
take
ibogaine, but am seriously hesitant due to my liver situation. Please,
if
anyone can give me real info on the subject, if there’s been any sort of
research at all into this particular point, I’d be very appreciative.
Do they test for Hep-C at IbogaTherapyHouse, and if so, is it taken
into
account when deciding whether someone is eligible for treatment?
How about other places- Sara? What do you do about Hep-C patients?
Do
you treat them?
Again, sorry if I’ve already asked this here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane

Hey Carla,

No anger from me.
It is just about having a personal view,
which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
only, without thinking about the patient needs.

5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even
if
they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best
in
the world.
If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
very very big.
It just doesn’t work that way.
Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
their
energy back IS get a bag or two.
And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
were.

It is how you look at things what is good?
What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
treat them all the same?

People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see
a
tribe working together.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
message which I related to and agreed with.

I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
don’t understand at what or who?

I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
time to time that explodes in all different directions
but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
Howard himself I can’t think of one time.

What are you talking about?

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
the first person to openly talk about what ibogaine
did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉

Carla B

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
“Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
of it, or the
realization that it can implement an addiction
“cure, “or the best way
to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
bring.  I know I’m
preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
remember this.  We
are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
other, because
everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
unknowable, and
therefore should profess what their initiation has
shown them, for the
good of the tribe…..

Hey Jane  I can’t agree with you on that.

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
Vancouver but that isn’t
their idea to start with and there is no place for
arrogance.
The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
It is all depended on the state of mind of the
person who is taking the
treatment and not directly with the treatment
provider. The treatment
can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
patient is the only
thing that counts.
I have given the same kind of treatment to different
people but the
reaction was totally deferent.
However Howard found that ibogaine works to
eliminate opiate
withdrawals,
No one else did.
Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
respected
I can’t feel that in your writing.

“0302122190

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “flash gordan” <eyebegrowing@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Any one in the uk who can help a friend of a friend?
Date: February 20, 2004 at 7:48:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My name is nic martin ive been subscibed to this newsletter for the last god knows how long , lots of shit happened man , lot of shit and good shits tho. Im english and live in nottingahmshire at the minute but have lived in many areas of the uk and spent a lot of time in asia getting elegently wasted in beuatiful surroundings , done a lot of phycadelics in my time and they have had an amazing positive effect on my life.

anyway ….

tHe friend of a friend is my friend called tina trpped in a destructive relationship with a man and big bad ol H , smack that bitch Up…..   what to do? shes coming off again and he turns up and hey fucking presto i cross her in the street in a wreck as he turned up with smack and there you go , she wants off and is interested in iboga but there is a snag we are both skint , me due to shit happening in my life while in london some crack head w an attitude tried to cut my face up with a stanley knife , i teach martial arts and luckilly he only just got me , then he got scared and put a contract on me , idiot , so uP north i came for a while , so no money , so we need iboga , so can any one help please?

thankyou all

peace

nic

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 7:11:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Most of the people I have treated have Hep-c, few c&b&hiv
Also most of them use more then one addictive drug at the same time
Like shooting speedballs+ methadone+ benzo.

I advice to use Milk thistle -+a month before taking Ibogaine.
Also Komucha drink cleans the blood which is very helpful to the liver.
You can buy it for one dollar a bottle in N.Y
I guess you can get that at the Russians shop they call it Kwas.
people who have big health issues
will need to be tested what amount of Iboga their body/mind/spirit
can handle. It is also possible to do this test from a distance.

Greetings

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 11:58
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine

Hi all,
I can’t remember if I’ve ever asked this specifically:

How is ibogaine on the liver? Specifically, on a liver that is swollen
but
so far as I know not having cirrosis but still one that is saddled with
Hep
C? I am wondering simply because I do still have the desire to someday
take
ibogaine, but am seriously hesitant due to my liver situation. Please,
if
anyone can give me real info on the subject, if there’s been any sort of
research at all into this particular point, I’d be very appreciative.
Do they test for Hep-C at IbogaTherapyHouse, and if so, is it taken
into
account when deciding whether someone is eligible for treatment?
How about other places- Sara? What do you do about Hep-C patients?
Do
you treat them?
Again, sorry if I’ve already asked this here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane

Hey Carla,

No anger from me.
It is just about having a personal view,
which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
only, without thinking about the patient needs.

5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even
if
they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best
in
the world.
If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
very very big.
It just doesn’t work that way.
Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
their
energy back IS get a bag or two.
And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
were.

It is how you look at things what is good?
What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
treat them all the same?

People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see
a
tribe working together.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
message which I related to and agreed with.

I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
don’t understand at what or who?

I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
time to time that explodes in all different directions
but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
Howard himself I can’t think of one time.

What are you talking about?

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
the first person to openly talk about what ibogaine
did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉

Carla B

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
“Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
of it, or the
realization that it can implement an addiction
“cure, “or the best way
to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
bring.  I know I’m
preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
remember this.  We
are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
other, because
everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
unknowable, and
therefore should profess what their initiation has
shown them, for the
good of the tribe…..

Hey Jane  I can’t agree with you on that.

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
Vancouver but that isn’t
their idea to start with and there is no place for
arrogance.
The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
It is all depended on the state of mind of the
person who is taking the
treatment and not directly with the treatment
provider. The treatment
can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
patient is the only
thing that counts.
I have given the same kind of treatment to different
people but the
reaction was totally deferent.
However Howard found that ibogaine works to
eliminate opiate
withdrawals,
No one else did.
Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
respected
I can’t feel that in your writing.

“0302122190

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Douglas Greene <douggreene@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 20, 2004 at 6:13:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know how that canard sticks around.  Of course there’s bad press.
Dangerous psychedelic?  Murder?  How many people do you think will take the
time to research this?  How many will instead let this be their impression
of ibogaine?

We should try to rally support to respond to this smear.

Doug

—–Original Message—–
From: kevyn @ the Cluster [mailto:kevyn@pagancluster.org]
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 1:21 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week

Yikes,

guess the preview never showed it like that.

But I guess the only positive is the there is no such thing as bad press.

but cult, common.

peace

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] question about livers and ibogaine
Date: February 20, 2004 at 5:57:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I can’t remember if I’ve ever asked this specifically:

How is ibogaine on the liver? Specifically, on a liver that is swollen but
so far as I know not having cirrosis but still one that is saddled with Hep
C? I am wondering simply because I do still have the desire to someday take
ibogaine, but am seriously hesitant due to my liver situation. Please, if
anyone can give me real info on the subject, if there’s been any sort of
research at all into this particular point, I’d be very appreciative.
Do they test for Hep-C at IbogaTherapyHouse, and if so, is it taken into
account when deciding whether someone is eligible for treatment?
How about other places- Sara? What do you do about Hep-C patients? Do
you treat them?
Again, sorry if I’ve already asked this here.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 2:09 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane

Hey Carla,

No anger from me.
It is just about having a personal view,
which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
only, without thinking about the patient needs.

5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even if
they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best in
the world.
If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
very very big.
It just doesn’t work that way.
Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
their
energy back IS get a bag or two.
And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
were.

It is how you look at things what is good?
What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
treat them all the same?

People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see a
tribe working together.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
message which I related to and agreed with.

I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
don’t understand at what or who?

I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
time to time that explodes in all different directions
but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
Howard himself I can’t think of one time.

What are you talking about?

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
the first person to openly talk about what ibogaine
did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉

Carla B

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
“Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
of it, or the
realization that it can implement an addiction
“cure, “or the best way
to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
bring.  I know I’m
preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
remember this.  We
are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
other, because
everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
unknowable, and
therefore should profess what their initiation has
shown them, for the
good of the tribe…..

Hey Jane  I can’t agree with you on that.

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
Vancouver but that isn’t
their idea to start with and there is no place for
arrogance.
The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
It is all depended on the state of mind of the
person who is taking the
treatment and not directly with the treatment
provider. The treatment
can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
patient is the only
thing that counts.
I have given the same kind of treatment to different
people but the
reaction was totally deferent.
However Howard found that ibogaine works to
eliminate opiate
withdrawals,
No one else did.
Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
respected
I can’t feel that in your writing.

“0302122190

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] The great Larry Dossey.
Date: February 20, 2004 at 3:51:32 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“I used to believe that we must choose between science and reason on one hand, and spirituality on the other, in how we lead our lives. Now I consider this a false choice. We can recover the sense of sacredness, not just in science, but in perhaps every area of life.”
- LARRY DOSSEY, M.D., from Reinventing Medicine
This tall and distinguished Texas physician, deeply rooted in the scientific world, has become an internationally influential advocate of the role of the mind in health and the role of spirituality in healthcare. Bringing the experience of a practicing internist and the soul of a poet to the discourse, Dr. Larry Dossey offers panoramic insight into the nature and the future of medicine.
Upon graduating with honors from the University of Texas at Austin, Dr. Dossey worked as a pharmacist while earning his M.D. degree from Southwestern Medical School in Dallas, 1967. Before completing his residency in internal medicine, he served as a battalion surgeon in Vietnam, where he was decorated for valor. Dr. Dossey helped establish the Dallas Diagnostic Association, the largest group of internal medicine practitioners in that city, and was Chief of Staff of Medical City Dallas Hospital in 1982. 

An education steeped in traditional Western medicine did not prepare Dr. Dossey for patients who were blessed with “miracle cures,” remissions that clinical medicine could not explain. “Almost all physicians possess a lavish list of strange happenings unexplainable by normal science,” says Dr. Dossey. “A tally of these events would demonstrate, I am convinced, that medical science not only has not had the last word, it has hardly had the first word on how the world works, especially when the mind is involved.” 

The author of nine books and numerous articles, Dr. Dossey is Executive Editor of the peer-reviewed journal Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine, the most widely subscribed-to journal in its field. The primary quality of all of Dr. Dossey’s work is scientific legitimacy, with an insistent focus on “what the data show.” As a result, his colleagues in medical schools and hospitals all over the country trust him, honor his message, and continually invite him to share his insights with them. He has lectured all over the world, including major medical schools and hospitals in the United States –Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Cornell, the Universities of Pennsylvania, California, Washington, Texas, Florida, Minnesota, and the Mayo Clinic. 

The impact of Dr. Dossey’s work has been remarkable. Before his book Healing Words was published in 1993, only three U.S. medical schools had courses devoted to exploring the role of religious practice and prayer in health; currently, nearly 80 medical schools have instituted such courses, many of which utilize Dr. Dossey’s works as textbooks. In his 1989 book Recovering the Soul, he introduced the concept of “nonlocal mind” — mind unconfined to the brain and body, mind spread infinitely throughout space and time. Since then, “nonlocal mind” has been adopted by many leading scientists as an emerging image of consciousness. Dr. Dossey’s ever-deepening explication of nonlocal mind provides a legitimate foundation for the merging of spirit and medicine. The ramifications of such a union are radical and call for no less than the reinvention of medicine. 

Recommended reading: Healing Words: The Power of Prayer and the Practice of Medicine

 

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane
Date: February 20, 2004 at 2:09:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Carla,

No anger from me.
It is just about having a personal view,
which has nothing to do with scientists and data.
I don’t hope to make you angry by expressing my view.
No need to attack anyone, but I can’t feel the Iboga tribe
feeling especially when it is about doing it scientifically
only, without thinking about the patient needs.

5 days treatment to kick a Methadone habit/orlaam will not work even if
they jump up and down to scream at me that the treatment is the best in
the world.
If you keep a person that short the chance that they will relapse is
very very big.
It just doesn’t work that way.
Most people are so drained,so that the first thing they will do to get
their
energy back IS get a bag or two.
And that has nothing to do with how fun and joyful the 5 day treatment
were.

It is how you look at things what is good?
What is good for you may not be good for another person how can you
treat them all the same?

People are treated like objects, for me personally isn’t the way I see a
tribe working together.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 20 februari 2004 1:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
message which I related to and agreed with.

I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
don’t understand at what or who?

I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
time to time that explodes in all different directions
but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
Howard himself I can’t think of one time.

What are you talking about?

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
the first person to openly talk about what ibogaine
did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉

Carla B

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
“Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
of it, or the
realization that it can implement an addiction
“cure, “or the best way
to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
bring.  I know I’m
preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
remember this.  We
are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
other, because
everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
unknowable, and
therefore should profess what their initiation has
shown them, for the
good of the tribe…..

Hey Jane  I can’t agree with you on that.

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
Vancouver but that isn’t
their idea to start with and there is no place for
arrogance.
The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
It is all depended on the state of mind of the
person who is taking the
treatment and not directly with the treatment
provider. The treatment
can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
patient is the only
thing that counts.
I have given the same kind of treatment to different
people but the
reaction was totally deferent.
However Howard found that ibogaine works to
eliminate opiate
withdrawals,
No one else did.
Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
respected
I can’t feel that in your writing.

“0302122190

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Debrah and Patrick show on Oprah 🙂 Re: [ibogaine] San Francisco Newscast
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:58:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m surprised. That was really really really good! Way
to go to Deborah and Patrick! The two of you should go
do Oprah.

Patrick you’re both crazy, you’re so crazy I have so
much respect that you have the balls to go up there
and do that.

Love your tracks 😉

Carla B

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Holy shit! The Deborah and Patrick show got 10
minutes!

This is a great show, thanks Randy. I didn’t catch
this!

Patrick!!!! Go superfreak! Flash your tracks to all
of America!

All of this is becoming stranger then fiction 🙂
🙂 🙂 Miami Vice
on acid.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:30:58 -0800 Randy Hencken
<randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
KRON in San Francisco did a nice piece on Ibogaine,
Deborah and Patrick.

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Well done!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:52:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

according to the call, which I’ve done exactly zero calling around to verify
the veracity of (though the pedigree of the story is interesting and I’d
give some credence to in other cases) , the episode was put together by some
12-step adherent who met some people who’d used ibogaine in Mexico, and the
12-stepper didn’t like the idea of their having used a psyhedelic to get off
drugs- if I understood the call correctly.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 1:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week

Yikes,

guess the preview never showed it like that.

But I guess the only positive is the there is no such thing as bad press.

but cult, common.

peace

Preston Peet wrote:

It’s apparently about a guy who is running around killing people as he’s
trying to start some kind of treatment cult using a dangerous psychedelic
called ibogaine, according to the phone call I got tonight about the
show. I
have grave and serious doubts it’s going to be at all good for the image
of
ibogaine, if the person who called is anywhere near correct.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:59 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week

Was just watching this weeks episode of CSI, and they previewed next
week, with a person being investigating for giving away Ibogaine for
addictions treatment.

looks like it is a good representation of ibogaine.

Hope it helps to make more people aware.

peace and luv
kevyn

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 21, 2004 at 1:20:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yikes,

guess the preview never showed it like that.

But I guess the only positive is the there is no such thing as bad press.

but cult, common.

peace

Preston Peet wrote:

It’s apparently about a guy who is running around killing people as he’s
trying to start some kind of treatment cult using a dangerous psychedelic
called ibogaine, according to the phone call I got tonight about the show. I
have grave and serious doubts it’s going to be at all good for the image of
ibogaine, if the person who called is anywhere near correct.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:59 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week

Was just watching this weeks episode of CSI, and they previewed next
week, with a person being investigating for giving away Ibogaine for
addictions treatment.

looks like it is a good representation of ibogaine.

Hope it helps to make more people aware.

peace and luv
kevyn

/]=———————————————————————=[\

[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com

<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

 

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:18:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YAY!
CSI is one of my favorite shows! A LOT of viewers watch CSI! This might be a very important step in awareness!
Can’t wait until next Thursday!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 20, 2004 at 1:10:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s apparently about a guy who is running around killing people as he’s
trying to start some kind of treatment cult using a dangerous psychedelic
called ibogaine, according to the phone call I got tonight about the show. I
have grave and serious doubts it’s going to be at all good for the image of
ibogaine, if the person who called is anywhere near correct.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 12:59 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week

Was just watching this weeks episode of CSI, and they previewed next
week, with a person being investigating for giving away Ibogaine for
addictions treatment.

looks like it is a good representation of ibogaine.

Hope it helps to make more people aware.

peace and luv
kevyn

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “kevyn @ the Cluster” <kevyn@pagancluster.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine on CSI, next week
Date: February 21, 2004 at 12:59:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Was just watching this weeks episode of CSI, and they previewed next week, with a person being investigating for giving away Ibogaine for addictions treatment.

looks like it is a good representation of ibogaine.

Hope it helps to make more people aware.

peace and luv
kevyn

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] San Francisco Newscast
Date: February 20, 2004 at 12:32:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Holy shit! The Deborah and Patrick show got 10 minutes!

This is a great show, thanks Randy. I didn’t catch this!

Patrick!!!! Go superfreak! Flash your tracks to all of America!

All of this is becoming stranger then fiction 🙂 🙂 🙂 Miami Vice
on acid.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:30:58 -0800 Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
wrote:
KRON in San Francisco did a nice piece on Ibogaine, Deborah and Patrick.

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Well done!

_________________________________________________________________
Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage.

http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————–
———-=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]
\]=———————————————————–
———-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] San Francisco Newscast
Date: February 19, 2004 at 10:30:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

KRON in San Francisco did a nice piece on Ibogaine, Deborah and Patrick.

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?s=%20%201652207

Well done!

_________________________________________________________________
Click, drag and drop. My MSN is the simple way to design your homepage. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jane
Date: February 19, 2004 at 7:35:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara I’m trying to understand what you mean. I read
Jane’s message and didn’t get the same thing from it
that you did, I only read a very kind and thoughtful
message which I related to and agreed with.

I’ve seen you post different things that nobody else
has ever mentioned and think you have a whole
different perspective on ibogaine treatment and all
kinds of interesting insights but in some of your
messages what comes across is that youre very angry. I
don’t understand at what or who?

I know that there is a lot of anger on this list from
time to time that explodes in all different directions
but I don’t think that in the years I’ve been reading
this list that I have ever seen anyone attack or
disrespect Howard personally. Ibogaine yes, the whole
list yes, entheogens yes, pot yes, Marc Emery, yes,
Patrick, yes, Dr. Mash, yes, you name it, yes but
Howard himself I can’t think of one time.

What are you talking about?

I don’t think anyone has ever denied that Howard is
the first person to openly talk about what ibogaine
did for him. They may have known what ibogaine does 10
years sooner but I don’t think the CIA was publishing
their results like Dave Hunter mentioned 😉

Carla B

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
“Not one single one of us “owns” ibogaine, the idea
of it, or the
realization that it can implement an addiction
“cure, “or the best way
to do so, or the hope that such knowledge might
bring.  I know I’m
preaching to the initiated, but it seems relevant to
remember this.  We
are all both humbled and honored by the work of each
other, because
everyone who has tasted the fruit has known the
unknowable, and
therefore should profess what their initiation has
shown them, for the
good of the tribe…..

Hey Jane  I can’t agree with you on that.

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.
They may use the idea of repeated dosages in
Vancouver but that isn’t
their idea to start with and there is no place for
arrogance.
The best treatment in the world doesn’t exist.
It is all depended on the state of mind of the
person who is taking the
treatment and not directly with the treatment
provider. The treatment
can be all for free or not. The motivation of the
patient is the only
thing that counts.
I have given the same kind of treatment to different
people but the
reaction was totally deferent.
However Howard found that ibogaine works to
eliminate opiate
withdrawals,
No one else did.
Yes, no one own Ibogaine but the founder should be
respected
I can’t feel that in your writing.

“0302122190

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard – Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Jane
Date: February 19, 2004 at 6:24:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes you can see it that way,if the pygmy didn’t find Iboga I wouldn’t do
this today.If… God didn’t create Iboga and people I will never had the
chance to work with it.
Still I have nothing to do with other people work today.

I don’t tell you or anyone else what work you should or shouldn’t do

or how to conduct your work or if it is good the best or the worst, what
tests you should or shouldn’t do.And if you do or you don’t I will not
expect you to be defensive or aggressive in anyway.

For sure I did learn from others and still do and I do respect their
work without them I wouldn’t be here doing this, yes! That is true. But
that counts for each and every person on the planet, without the
ancestors where will we be?
Does that mean that I have something to do with other people work?

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 19 februari 2004 20:38
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Jane

On 2/19/2004, “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.

if it weren’t for the work of others that came before you, you wouldn’t
be treating people with ibogaine. Period.

according to FOIA documents, a CIA doctor was experimenting with
Ibogaine
on morphine addicted prisoners in the 1950’s. But obviously that was
all hush hush.

Thanks to what could possibly be some divine intervention, Howard
stumbled upon the “hidden” properties of our saviour root.

which we are all eternallly grateful for, Howard!

-dh

/]=———————————————————————
=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————
=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “raven” <Raven@sybercom.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Hack ’em, then Jack ’em
Date: February 19, 2004 at 3:08:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.cithosting.com/

FBI: We gonna need ta look at yo server. Someone went and hacked out someone else, and you B duh host for where that damned hacker came from.  Here B my letter signed by me that says I can look at yo stuff.

…a few hours of time pass…

FBI:  Sorry…we gonna have to take yo boxes. We can’t be findin’ what we lookin’ for.  Sorry about yo bidness. I’m sure fuckedyurcompany ISP hosting over on Broadway and 6th can manage the customer transfers while yur down and out.

Fuckedyurcompany:  Thanks George, I owe you one.  Got me a list here of a few other hosting sites that [cough] some vicious attacks came from.  Think you can help me put a few more of my competitors out on their ass?

Satan is alive and well, and living in Washington, DC…IMHO.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Jane
Date: February 19, 2004 at 2:37:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 2/19/2004, “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

I have nothing to do with the work of other people.

if it weren’t for the work of others that came before you, you wouldn’t
be treating people with ibogaine. Period.

according to FOIA documents, a CIA doctor was experimenting with Ibogaine
on morphine addicted prisoners in the 1950’s. But obviously that was
all hush hush.

Thanks to what could possibly be some divine intervention, Howard
stumbled upon the “hidden” properties of our saviour root.

which we are all eternallly grateful for, Howard!

-dh

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]