Ibogaine List Archives - 2004-02

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nicks22@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?
Date: February 29, 2004 at 5:07:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marc Scott Emery” <marc@cannabisculture.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2004 11:36 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] What UK provider scrwed up?

Was J supervised at the time? Seems like an unusual reaction as by 38
hours, it’s good to have a bit of food. What kind of food was it, do you
know?
When patients go more than 72 hours without food, the glucose levels
drop and a person can fall into unconsciousness.

Thanks for the information.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

Hi Marc,

As I recall, he ate a fried egg sandwich. You have to appreciate that the
person carrying out the treatment was a friend of the deceased with limited
medical experience. She was doing what she thought best, having carried out
a detox previously on an alcoholic which seemed to have worked well, as I
recall. A guy from Indra was in town at the time and he was hailing the
Danish iboga extract (used in these treatments) pretty much as some kind of
miracle cure. People believed him, because they wanted to, and because at
the time few deaths were known about. After this death, which was widely
publicized, a lot of things changed in the lay treatment world and ibogaine
became better recognized as potentially pretty dangerous.

The guy who died was very severely wasted, apparently incapable of following
rehab strategies, and not realistically expected to live so long anyway. The
young woman who provided the treatment was very idealistic and quite
shattered by the experience. She still had the guts to attend the inquest
and face the family which was really something. It was a tragic incident,
but one which also did a lot to wake people up to the dangers of using the
drug. Had it not happened maybe things could have turned out a lot worse.
Who’s to say?

all the best

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nicks22@onetel.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UK government drugs strategy
Date: February 29, 2004 at 4:31:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UK government drugs strategy

[cut]

As to the restricting of ibogaine in the UK, can you tell us at what stage
this has progressed? I was very disappointed to learn that a month after
I
presented at the Invitational Conference on Drug User Activism in
Copenhagen,
http://www.doraweiner.org/e_w_report.html , ibogaine was restricted in
that
country. I have attempted to obtain some explanation as to this
restricting but,
none has been forthcoming thus far. There was some report of a
psychologist/psychiatrist treating a patient with ibogaine with whom he
had had a sexual
liaison and that the patient committed suicide during a session by jumping
out of a
window but, I have not seen the article that would be in the Danish
language.
Personally, I am dubious about the matter and the reason for the action.
For whatever reason, there are people that do not want heroin users to be
self
empowering and that is something that ibogaine would do.

When you link to http://www.doraweiner.org/e_w_report.html you can then
link
to the brochure that was presented during the conference in Copenhagen.
As
this may have been the cause of the Danish government response to ibogaine
you
might want to see what gave them concern. Just scroll down or click on the
Exhibits link and click on the conference brochure link or
http://www.doraweiner.org/contentsbf.html.

On the other hand with the UK moving against Colin Brewer who knows what
is
going on. This is too strange for me.

Howard

Hi Howard,

The only thing the UK gov is doing about ibogaine at the moment, to the best
of my knowledge (which isn’t exhaustive), is this…

http://www.mca.gov.uk/ourwork/licensingmeds/herbalmeds/herbingredientreview.
pdf

…a move to restrict the sale of Tabernanthe iboga, apparently following
the Jan 2000 death in London. As far as I’m aware it hasn’t got very far
yet, and the last time I asked the MCA (Medicines Control Agency), about 18
months ago, they commented that it could take ages, as I recall. I’ll ask
them again, anyway, and see what they say. As I recall, they were also
unsure as to how any such moves would affect ibogaine itself.

All the best

Nick

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 29, 2004 at 7:53:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not only are smokers more likely to start doing other
drugs, but recovering addicts who smoke are more likely to relapse than
nonsmokers.<

The first residential treatment program I was enrolled in way back in the
80s informed us druggies that if we were smokers we shouldn’t even consider
quitting smoking while getting off the other drugs (or even all that soon
after getting off those other drugs) as our bodies and brains would be
unable to tell the difference between cravings and the withdrawals from
nicotine could very well drive us to use other drugs.
But the above bit about smokers and non- makes me wonder about the
reasons for that assertion by the treatment pimps now.
Hmmm.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy. If
possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time. We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

Actually, there is some research to support the idea that tobacco acts as
a gateway drug. Not only are smokers more likely to start doing other
drugs, but recovering addicts who smoke are more likely to relapse than
nonsmokers. Presumably it has to do with, at least in part, the dopamine
release that nicotine causes. One might think that if the pleasure/reward
circuit is still being activated in a similar manner to the way the drug
of abuse did, the behavioural consequence might be to seek out the drug of
abuse.

I have also read at least a few accounts of ibogaine takers who have said
that an unexpected consequence of taking it was that they ceased wanting
cigarettes as well.

I also don’t see anything in what Marc said where he says they force
people to quit smoking. He says if possible, they want them to do it.
Which seems perfectly reasonable; if you’re running a therapeutic program,
I’d say you’re obligated to at least suggest things to your clients that
would benefit their recovery, and their health in general. If you fail to
do that, I think you are doing your clients a great disservice.

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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 29, 2004 at 6:46:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

www.vegetaux.com

The site loaded for me and looked nice actually. However there didn’t seem
to be any prices listed or any possibility of buying anything. Maybe the
person coordinating this site could get in touch with me off list.

Thanks

Hattie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Good deeds in evil time.
Date: February 29, 2004 at 3:12:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Boaz, for your great deed of Mitzvah.

I pray to Hashem to keep you and your family in good health and prosperity. (Am Israel Chai.)

love

Sara.
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] favorite message of all time #2
Date: February 28, 2004 at 8:27:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is my second favorite message which is from Crashtestdummies when
all of Mindvox comes online for a hour or day before they take it back
down.

My third favorite is Bruce Fancher posting notices to Mindvox that I’m
looking for right now, that say ‘if anyone has seen my partner alive in
the last 10 months please let me know, I shut off his credit cards last
year which is the only thing that ever gets his attention but it didn’t
work. If anyone knows which prison he is in if he’s alive, please let
me know’

🙂 🙂 🙂

These are awesome!

Patrick this is the shortest message I have ever seen you type, you’re
still a junkie in this one aren’t you? You don’t have anything to say
when you’re on heroin 🙂

.:vector:.

Path: digital
Newsgroups: mindvox.inner-circle.Convergence
Subject: …/\^ ^/\…
From: digital@mindvox.com (Patrick K. Kroupa)
Message-ID: <mukwie1w165w@mindvox.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 15:45:33 EST
Organization: MindVox

[Your Attention Please]: 98.4% Systems Failure

[Suspended Animation Terminated]

<HzzzZzzzZ> Uhm… 1998…?

HEY, who dumped ibogaine into my heroin…

Patrick

__________________________________
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Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] favorite message 1
Date: February 28, 2004 at 8:27:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla you inspired me to search through my favorite messages folder. I
have 480 messages that I really liked, I think they may be different
then yours, I didn’t save any of the wussy recovery ones 🙂

This is my favorite message to the list which I reposted here years ago
when I still had email on space.com 🙂 🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, May 14, 2002 at 09:37:15PM -0700], [vector6@space.com]
wrote:

| From: alexis@panix.com (Alexis Rosen)
| Newsgroups: panix.chat
| Subject: A last dying gasp from the anklebiters (more history)
| Date: 6 Nov 2000 00:25:43 -0500
| Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
|
| [This will mostly be amusing to old-timers from 1992-1994]
|
| This evening I called AT&T, the company that services my Visa card,
to
| refuse a charge (for a broken toy I sent back, details not
important).
|
| The last time I spoke to them was, it appears, seven or eight years
ago.
| How do I know this? Because, when they asked me what my mother’s
maiden
| name was, and I answered, the woman very politely said “No, that’s
not
| it. It begins with an ‘M'”.
|
| This was more than a little startling to me, since my mother has
not
| changed her name, and even if she were to do so, I don’t see how
she
| could change her *maiden* name.
|
| How bad is their security? The AT&T rep asked for my Social
Security number
| and date of birth. As soon as I did so she was able to change the
maiden
| name info (which, she said, can also be any password you like). I
picked
| something new, and deleted the DOB info so this couldn’t be done
again.
|
| Obviously, someone else had called in, provided my SSID and DOB,
and
| changed that password. So how do I know when this was done? Because
she
| told me that the password was… “Mindvox”!
|
| Gee. What an awesome “hack”. I’d grovel before the 7331 dudes, if
only I
| could find them, but they’ve all dried up and blown away, and their

| spritiual heirs are all trading warez in IRC, which I don’t use…
|
| /a

I replied to that like 2 years ago. I still don’t understand what
the
hell his problem is. A funny joke fell through a hole in time, and
emerged on the other side of the statute of limitations. Aside from
which, I have no idea who would have done such a thing; probably some
immature person who was really wasted at 3am, sitting in a room with
other
immature people and giggling a lot.

Still, I fail to see the inspiration for this complaint. Did THOSE
PEOPLE
— whomever they are — steal anything from him? Did they take his
credit
cards, call an escort service, and order a hooker to his house while
his
wife is home…? No, they just changed his mom’s name to MindVox…
I
don’t see the problem. MindVox is a GREAT name, if I met a chick
named
MindVox, I would exert great effort to make her my next ex-wife.

Patrick

__________________________________
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Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ahtung! — Yo … Read Me
Date: February 28, 2004 at 7:37:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yesterday there was an infected attachment named ‘price list’ that landed in everyone’s box. I did not send it, my puter is not infected. The infected puter has my addy in the book and the virus chose my address to use as the sender.
I encourage everyone to scan attachments before opening them or don’t open them at all.
Peace! Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:44:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jon You are right, there are ways to look at things ,some time I feel
like a stupid dreamer but I’m not the only one.

But as I see it, any consumer mentality can lead to a new addiction.
Smoking is only one of them, yes it can, but anything that is pleasurable
can do the same, so smoking cannabis too unless it is used medically.
But also there are other addiction who aren’t looked at as addiction but
are. Like sports , fame, rave parties, TV and face lifting .
So if you keep on doing all of that you may become an addict again to
What’s your Kick ?
As long as we have an ego we may like to do things,
One research will show + and the other will show -.one will say no global
warming the other the risk of global warming.
We all have a different program in our computers.
Iboga cleans the hard drive only, then until you get all your software
In the computer it takes time, 5 days treatment will not be enough
to do both.
10 years of treatment in one day.

When I give Iboga/Ibogaine to a grown up person I let them know before that
they can quit anything they dislike doing to themselves
I think that each person is his own teacher they know or they don’t
They understand or not, they listen or not they pay the treatment or not,
The lie or not , I’m not lifting my finger to anyone.

I’m like A graffiti, write but not always RIGHT.

ANY CRITICS IS AN INSPIRATION.

So, there are many disable people in U.S.A lucky them, they have a computer
to communicate with world. Maybe they have a kick looking at porn? That’s
addictive too.

I have 5 school going kids two treatments coming and full on house keeping
and a full on rheumatic pains.
I wish, I had more time to play around with the computer some addictive
game.

For me chocolate ice cream does it. as I said I’m an addict to anything that
starts with the letter C.
I’m not a saint or pure or trying to be one of them.

I have done my turn on this computer,

Be well,Don’t Smoke unless it is pure pot.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon freedlander [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: zaterdag 28 februari 2004 19:49
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

This is bollix.

I have also read at least a few accounts of ibogaine takers who have said
that an unexpected consequence of taking it was that they ceased wanting
cigarettes as well.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ahtung! — Yo … Read Me
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:11:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sat, Feb 28, 2004 at 08:30:35PM +0000], [ganjacat@ganjacat.net] wrote:

Uhm, yet another Windoze virus.

People, if you run Windoze, please get some kind of virus checking program
and don’t spread this shit all over the place. There is already an
absolute fucking mountain of this crap that bounces in and out of here
every day; but at present people who are SUBSCRIBED to THIS LIST, can send
images, attachments and Other Crap…

Please don’t put me in a position where I hafta grind the load average up
another .8 notches, scan all the fucking email to the lists; or just
disallow attachments.

Danke schoen,

Patrick

From: ganjacat@ganjacat.net
Subject: [ibogaine] Ahtung!
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:30:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “ARON KAY” <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 28, 2004 at 3:13:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey we are dealing with a tendency known as “bealitosis”

ARON KAY-http://www.pieman.org
BONGS NOT BOMBS
BUSH OUT THE DOOR!ON OR BEFORE 2004
—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news

> On [Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 04:57:25PM -0800], [Carla Barnes] wrote:
>
> | Patrick, you’re not allowed to write 10 funny
> | paragraphs that let Dana off the hook like you usually
> | do so everyone stops talking about it! Or you are, but
> | it won’t help!
>
> Carla, okay, ONE WORD! Well, I mean, I’m opening the sentence using
> another three, but once you’ve assimilated those, you can just erase them
> from your mind, ‘cuz they’re really not part of the actual CONTENT!
>
> [It was a] TYPO!
>
> Dana, I am shocked, aghast, and very disturbed that the Daily News would
> print such drivel — which you obviously never said. Is their entire fact
> checking department on vacation?
>
> Personally, it’s COMPLETELY OBVIOUS to me that you should sue the NY Daily
> News for causing irreparable harm to your solid reputation as an activist,
> journalist, author, and all-around authority on … many things!
>
> Perhaps the NY Daily News is in actuality a unit of Clear Channel or the
> Conde Nast Empire(R). Everything seems to be. While I haven’t bothered
> to look this up; FACTS only get in the way of things! You should sue the
> NY Daily News, Clear Channel AND Conde Nast. Because probably it’s all
> part of the same conspiracy that MURDERED Abbie Hoffman AND Tom Forcade.
> Two suicides… Coincidence? I think not!
>
> | Dana other then being wrong about almost everything
> | you said about the csi episode which I thought was
> | boring but good as far as explaining ibogaine, but
> | you’ve never said you were ever a cocaine and
> | amphetamine addict? If you were, you very imply here
> | that ibogaine freed you from addiction. Except you’ve
> | never taken ibogaine! I have seen Patrick, Marko,
> | others on this list all nudge fun at you for talking
> | and talking and talking about ibogaine but you won’t
> | do it!!
>
> Look, Dana has mentioned — repeatedly, in public, and on camera — that
> he plans to do ibogaine ANY MINUTE NOW … as soon as he has a spare
> moment or three.
>
> Dana, just make sure you get the hell out of your house before you trip,
> or I can already tell you, you’re going straight to hell; whoopsie, no,
> wait, I meant to say: go to a REPUTABLE IBOGAINE TREATMENT PROVIDER!
> Yeah, that was it.
>
> Plus, also, don’t kill yourself! Medical testing is very important, so,
> ya know, check to see if you still have any of your liver left; if yes,
> and you’ve still got a heartbeat and are breathing occasionally … well,
> CLOSE ENOUGH! Down the hatch it goes!@#!@#!@#
>
> No, wait, I didn’t say that either, I meant to say, what did I mean to
> say, oh yeah: why don’t you just call Howard! I’m sure he’ll offer you
> some sage advice, “Dana … what the hell is wrong with you, just do it
> already!” No, I meant to say, oh … fuck this, I give up!
>
> | Dana Why not do ibogaine?
>
> Because the Bwiti would tell him to clean up his house! Plus, also, 45
> cats is AT LEAST 25 too many!
>
> And, uhm, Dana … ya know, one of these days Aivia is going to whack you
> over the head with a baseball bat… And she’ll have many good reasons
> for taking this action.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
>
>
>

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:23:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Feb 27, 2004 at 04:57:25PM -0800], [Carla Barnes] wrote:

| Patrick, you’re not allowed to write 10 funny
| paragraphs that let Dana off the hook like you usually
| do so everyone stops talking about it! Or you are, but
| it won’t help!

Carla, okay, ONE WORD! Well, I mean, I’m opening the sentence using
another three, but once you’ve assimilated those, you can just erase them
from your mind, ‘cuz they’re really not part of the actual CONTENT!

[It was a] TYPO!

Dana, I am shocked, aghast, and very disturbed that the Daily News would
print such drivel — which you obviously never said. Is their entire fact
checking department on vacation?

Personally, it’s COMPLETELY OBVIOUS to me that you should sue the NY Daily
News for causing irreparable harm to your solid reputation as an activist,
journalist, author, and all-around authority on … many things!

Perhaps the NY Daily News is in actuality a unit of Clear Channel or the
Conde Nast Empire(R). Everything seems to be. While I haven’t bothered
to look this up; FACTS only get in the way of things! You should sue the
NY Daily News, Clear Channel AND Conde Nast. Because probably it’s all
part of the same conspiracy that MURDERED Abbie Hoffman AND Tom Forcade.
Two suicides… Coincidence? I think not!

| Dana other then being wrong about almost everything
| you said about the csi episode which I thought was
| boring but good as far as explaining ibogaine, but
| you’ve never said you were ever a cocaine and
| amphetamine addict? If you were, you very imply here
| that ibogaine freed you from addiction. Except you’ve
| never taken ibogaine! I have seen Patrick, Marko,
| others on this list all nudge fun at you for talking
| and talking and talking about ibogaine but you won’t
| do it!!

Look, Dana has mentioned — repeatedly, in public, and on camera — that
he plans to do ibogaine ANY MINUTE NOW … as soon as he has a spare
moment or three.

Dana, just make sure you get the hell out of your house before you trip,
or I can already tell you, you’re going straight to hell; whoopsie, no,
wait, I meant to say: go to a REPUTABLE IBOGAINE TREATMENT PROVIDER!
Yeah, that was it.

Plus, also, don’t kill yourself! Medical testing is very important, so,
ya know, check to see if you still have any of your liver left; if yes,
and you’ve still got a heartbeat and are breathing occasionally … well,
CLOSE ENOUGH! Down the hatch it goes!@#!@#!@#

No, wait, I didn’t say that either, I meant to say, what did I mean to
say, oh yeah: why don’t you just call Howard! I’m sure he’ll offer you
some sage advice, “Dana … what the hell is wrong with you, just do it
already!” No, I meant to say, oh … fuck this, I give up!

| Dana Why not do ibogaine?

Because the Bwiti would tell him to clean up his house! Plus, also, 45
cats is AT LEAST 25 too many!

And, uhm, Dana … ya know, one of these days Aivia is going to whack you
over the head with a baseball bat… And she’ll have many good reasons
for taking this action.

Patrick

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] We need need more, not less, advocacy
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:40:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We need need more, not less, advocacyDana wrote >You shouldn’t ought to have
to take Ibogaine in order to publicly advocate it for addiction. If that is
your position, no politician will ever be able to support it on its merits
alone.<

Maybe I shouldn’t pipe up here, but I agree wholeheartedly with Dana here. I
can’t understand why someone would insist that someone else take ibogaine or
not promote its use when that person can see for his own eyes that it works
for a good number of people, even those he’s close to. Why in the heck
shouldn’t Dana be promoting ibogaine for those who want to try it? I’m
completely at a loss over this one. Is it a clique or something? What gives
with that?
And Dana’s right also in that Cures-Not-Wars and Dana himself do more
promoting of ibogaine than just about anyone I’ve ever heard of over any
span of time. There are newer voices in the mix nowadays, but so far as I
know, he’s non-stop about it and has been for as long as I’ve known him.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:48 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] We need need more, not less, advocacy

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal
advocate.

I’m waiting.to do it now. I never had a bona fide medical reason for doing
it before. Now I have to see if the anti-cyst effect (it worked on my
daughter) will obviate the need for surgery.

It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your picture in the
paper.

They insisted on a picture. However, it did immediately re-enforce my
standing with elected officials, and people who are influenced by publicity.

One of the main points of starting the Million Marijuana March after
finishing THE IBOGAINE STORY was to vastly INCREASE OUR INFLUENCE by
marshalling all the supporters of market separation of pot and hard drugs
into an international platform for dissemination of drug policy reform ideas
(Ibogaine, in other words) different from and alternative to DPA, NORML,
MPP, etc–all groups that were giving Ibo short shrift.

It was dishonest to imply that ibogaine freed you from a speed addiction.

You have it all wrong. Daily News staffers believe, along with most of the
media (and implicitly Stahl) that its a sine non qua qualification of any
lay person working in the addiction field to have quit drugs. I explicitly
told Elisa Karasz that I had never been addict, only a user, because I was
able quit without relapsing the first time I tried. I also specified that my
speed use was in the ’60’s and that I stopped coke in the early ’80’s– long
before Ibogaine finally became available again–after drying up by the time
Howard Lotsof came back from Nepal and couldn’t find any, and had to go into
the first methadone program.

(I did not tell her I quit coke after my mother’s daughter spiked my coke
with acid because she was concerned that I was doing too much–but she never
asked. And anyway, all psychedelics are gateway drugs, not just
pot–right?!? I clearly told her I did not use Ibogaine to quit drugs.}

For years our advocacy of ibogaine was hobbled by the popular misconception
that advocates of the Dutch system were just a bunch of potheads–and of
course the only people SERIOUS about addiction were all 12 step antipotniks.
It took medical marijuana to overcome that, and to some extent it remains to
be overcome.

CSI at least made an effort to talk with people who have experienced it. I
did encourage them to do it, but hey, tv writers are not ibogaine advocates.

My basic objection still stands–which the NEWS did not include, because
they were more intrigued about the part about Ibogaine being like sleep
paralysis (what it was LIKE being more important to them than how this was
going to play out with treatment providers). For Jerry’s plot to work,
Ibogaine had to be found in a car as part of a murder investigation. And
that meant you had to have some one prowling back alleys like a drug dealer
looking to deliver Ibogaine to junkies. And THAT is what has the potential
to influence the DEA to investigate everyone who even publicizes Ibogaine,
in hopes that they’ll turn up some schedule I drugs. (Is that 5 years–or
10?)

Jerry Stahl, the writer, told me – and I believe him – that he had never
heard of Dana Beal or Cures not Wars before yesterday and did not base the
episode on him.

Not what I said. What I told the NEWS (since they were interested in a New
York angle) was that we’re the ones doing the local equivalent of the
Ibogaine outreach depicted in the episode–except that the episode has it
totally wrong, since the people doing it here, including myself, are all old
psychedelic veterans who scrupulously send people out of the country, and
tell their families if they want to get it here, they have to pick up the
phone, call their Congressman and tell him to legalize it.

Not only that, by virtue of the fact that MMM/cures not wars/the Yippies are
the biggest network promoting Ibogaine, most local efforts elsewhere to make
it available also make a big point of sending people outside the country–if
only to heighten the understanding that it’s legal almost everywhere else,
and because Marc’s clinic is free. Marc is BTW the primary model we’re
promoting–i.e, the pot movement initiating ibogaine access, as part of
evolution of the movement toward market separation.

It’s been a retail effort, let me tell you, one city at a time, getting them
to take up the cause. Marc represents a kind of tipping point, because he
controls Cannabis Culture and POT TV, and has influenced a lot of people who
wouldn’t just take my word for it.

The fact is, if you or any drug addict encounters Ibogaine information, more
than 50% of the time, it’s through us. For instance, MMM activist Jay
Statzer finds an addict named Dimitri who goes to Sara, takes Indra, cleans
up, comes back to Detroit, runs a Greek restaurant and decides to quit and
start an Ibogaine clinic in Windsor. That’s a lot more typical than the few
people who may have figured out how to smuggle Ibogaine into the U.S. and do
clandestine treatments.

Why would you do that, when it’s so much easier to smuggle back a person
who’s already been treated? And then there’s the consideration that going on
a trip to do it is part of the rite of passage…

And Jerry Stahl actually knows better, since all the people he encountered
in L.A. had been treated in the Mexican clinic. Of course then, there would
have been no plot for CSI. Accuracy be damned. I’m closing with a post from
Jay Statzer. I don’t know how many of our affilites actually emailed or
protested their local CBS afffiliate, but that was the idea.

Dana
Demo’d at WSBT CH 22 broadcast office Thur. afternoon. I think I was pretty
much on target with my guess as to how the ibogaine plot played out. My
signs said CSI TELLS A LIE? and 9:00 CH 22. The question mark allowed me to
play my protest as either a against CH 22 or as promoting the episode
depending on who I talked to. Got lots of people coming up to ask me about
the protest but no media, although I believe I gave the people in the
offices a good rattling. Suspecting that the episode wouldn’t be a pure
attack piece, I mostly got people to watch the episode and promoted the
Liberation Day event for South Bend. Also, I gave ibogaine brochures to
people interested in treatment and to some democratic party operatives that
were in an office across the street from WSBT (Kerry supporters.)
I have a copy of the episode but the very last line by the character Mindy
got cut off. Can anyone tell me what that last line was?? I am writing a
transcript of the episode from my tape today.
E’ya later,
God forgive America,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI

You shouldn’t ought to have to take Ibogaine in order to publicly advocate
it for addiction. If that is your position, no politician will ever be able
to support it on its merits alone.

Dana/cnw

From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 28, 2004 at 1:54:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

Dana Why not do ibogaine?

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal
advocate. It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your
picture in the paper.

I probably shouldn’t get involved in this petty argument; but that seems
silly.

I campaign for the pro-choice movement, but I’m obviously never going to
have an abortion…

From: jon freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 28, 2004 at 1:48:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the United States alone, someone checks their email every 3 seconds….

“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy. If possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time. We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

I have also read at least a few accounts of ibogaine takers who have said
that an unexpected consequence of taking it was that they ceased wanting
cigarettes as well.

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] We need need more, not less, advocacy
Date: February 28, 2004 at 12:48:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal advocate.

I’m waiting.to do it now. I never had a bona fide medical reason for doing it before. Now I have to see if the anti-cyst effect (it worked on my daughter) will obviate the need for surgery.

It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your picture in the paper.

They insisted on a picture. However, it did immediately re-enforce my standing with elected officials, and people who are influenced by publicity.

One of the main points of starting the Million Marijuana March after finishing THE IBOGAINE STORY was to vastly INCREASE OUR INFLUENCE by marshalling all the supporters of market separation of pot and hard drugs into an international platform for dissemination of drug policy reform ideas (Ibogaine, in other words) different from and alternative to DPA, NORML, MPP, etc–all groups that were giving Ibo short shrift.

It was dishonest to imply that ibogaine freed you from a speed addiction.

You have it all wrong. Daily News staffers believe, along with most of the media (and implicitly Stahl) that its a sine non qua qualification of any lay person working in the addiction field to have quit drugs. I explicitly told Elisa Karasz that I had never been addict, only a user, because I was able quit without relapsing the first time I tried. I also specified that my speed use was in the ’60’s and that I stopped coke in the early ’80’s– long before Ibogaine finally became available again–after drying up by the time Howard Lotsof came back from Nepal and couldn’t find any, and had to go into the first methadone program.

(I did not tell her I quit coke after my mother’s daughter spiked my coke with acid because she was concerned that I was doing too much–but she never asked. And anyway, all psychedelics are gateway drugs, not just pot–right?!? I clearly told her I did not use Ibogaine to quit drugs.}

For years our advocacy of ibogaine was hobbled by the popular misconception that advocates of the Dutch system were just a bunch of potheads–and of course the only people SERIOUS about addiction were all 12 step antipotniks. It took medical marijuana to overcome that, and to some extent it remains to be overcome.

CSI at least made an effort to talk with people who have experienced it. I did encourage them to do it, but hey, tv writers are not ibogaine advocates.

My basic objection still stands–which the NEWS did not include, because they were more intrigued about the part about Ibogaine being like sleep paralysis (what it was LIKE being more important to them than how this was going to play out with treatment providers). For Jerry’s plot to work, Ibogaine had to be found in a car as part of a murder investigation. And that meant you had to have some one prowling back alleys like a drug dealer looking to deliver Ibogaine to junkies. And THAT is what has the potential to influence the DEA to investigate everyone who even publicizes Ibogaine, in hopes that they’ll turn up some schedule I drugs. (Is that 5 years–or 10?)

Jerry Stahl, the writer, told me – and I believe him – that he had never heard of Dana Beal or Cures not Wars before yesterday and did not base the episode on him.

Not what I said. What I told the NEWS (since they were interested in a New York angle) was that we’re the ones doing the local equivalent of the Ibogaine outreach depicted in the episode–except that the episode has it totally wrong, since the people doing it here, including myself, are all old psychedelic veterans who scrupulously send people out of the country, and tell their families if they want to get it here, they have to pick up the phone, call their Congressman and tell him to legalize it.

Not only that, by virtue of the fact that MMM/cures not wars/the Yippies are the biggest network promoting Ibogaine, most local efforts elsewhere to make it available also make a big point of sending people outside the country–if only to heighten the understanding that it’s legal almost everywhere else, and because Marc’s clinic is free. Marc is BTW the primary model we’re promoting–i.e, the pot movement initiating ibogaine access, as part of evolution of the movement toward market separation.

It’s been a retail effort, let me tell you, one city at a time, getting them to take up the cause. Marc represents a kind of tipping point, because he controls Cannabis Culture and POT TV, and has influenced a lot of people who wouldn’t just take my word for it.

The fact is, if you or any drug addict encounters Ibogaine information, more than 50% of the time, it’s through us. For instance, MMM activist Jay Statzer finds an addict named Dimitri who goes to Sara, takes Indra, cleans up, comes back to Detroit, runs a Greek restaurant and decides to quit and start an Ibogaine clinic in Windsor. That’s a lot more typical than the few people who may have figured out how to smuggle Ibogaine into the U.S. and do clandestine treatments.

Why would you do that, when it’s so much easier to smuggle back a person who’s already been treated? And then there’s the consideration that going on a trip to do it is part of the rite of passage…

And Jerry Stahl actually knows better, since all the people he encountered in L.A. had been treated in the Mexican clinic. Of course then, there would have been no plot for CSI. Accuracy be damned. I’m closing with a post from Jay Statzer. I don’t know how many of our affilites actually emailed or protested their local CBS afffiliate, but that was the idea.

Dana
Demo’d at WSBT CH 22 broadcast office Thur. afternoon. I think I was pretty much on target with my guess as to how the ibogaine plot played out. My signs said CSI TELLS A LIE? and 9:00 CH 22. The question mark allowed me to play my protest as either a against CH 22 or as promoting the episode depending on who I talked to. Got lots of people coming up to ask me about the protest but no media, although I believe I gave the people in the offices a good rattling. Suspecting that the episode wouldn’t be a pure attack piece, I mostly got people to watch the episode and promoted the Liberation Day event for South Bend. Also, I gave ibogaine brochures to people interested in treatment and to some democratic party operatives that were in an office across the street from WSBT (Kerry supporters.)
I have a copy of the episode but the very last line by the character Mindy got cut off. Can anyone tell me what that last line was?? I am writing a transcript of the episode from my tape today.
E’ya later,
God forgive America,
Jay Statzer
CNW MI

You shouldn’t ought to have to take Ibogaine in order to publicly advocate it for addiction. If that is your position, no politician will ever be able to support it on its merits alone.

Dana/cnw

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] preferences
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:53:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the responses people…I’ll keep u posted.

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Paul,

“Is the root bark the best form to get it in?”

It depends. For someone trying to self-treat an addiction or a first (self) experience, not the best IMO. It is too variable in strength, from worthless to quality material, so make sure you are getting quality root bark not an iboga bush tossed in a chipper. Root bark would be more difficult for someone inexperienced to use, it is bulkier (try an oz of bark). A standardized extract of a known potency (which is all over the place, but seems to work) is Indra, you can also get HCL. Extracts, bark vs Ibogaine HCL is a somewhat different experience. Indra (which should be similar to root bark) is a softer trip – at least in a given anti-addictive amount, somewhat more sickening – that is what I hear about bark, but worse. You could make an extract, it is really horrid stuff to try to consume, especially once the effects start setting in (think drinking a bucket of bitter vomit on a tossing ship in the worst storm imaginable, now multiply) HCL is a rougher trip (strapped to a rocket going inward), more “scary” (on the way up), breaks through better, Indra and I assume root bark (never did any) is more “real”, richer, fuller where HCL is a bit more cartoon-like in some visions (for lack of a better description). Any ibogaine used properly will work for visions, are VERY long, are VERY sickening, has an immense body load, takes a long time to recover (ah, and then… the glow begins) and is likely to be the most amazing and lucid experience of your life (done properly), do it wrong and you will scare the shit out of yourself, or worse. The after effects are better with HCL than Indra, more of a “glow”, better mood, recouperation is quicker,. HCL is better for small, quick doses (ie 2mg/kg), that are basically over in several hours, no “trip” but lots of nice effects that last for days – not as good with Indra -and I assume other full spectrum iboga products. Given the choice between the two verions (one being too soft, the other too hard) I would mix the 2, given the choice if I could only get one kind it would be ibogaine HCL. I personally had a harder time trying to use Indra to fight addiction unless I used a very high dose.. I hear of people that love good quality root bark, that the experience is richer, perhaps more than Indra which is 18 years old.

Get other opinions, the experience on ibogaine depends a lot on who you are and where you are at, the reasons you are taking it, set, setting etc and what you do after is more important than the type of ibogaine you use. Once you are tripping on ibogaine (at altitude), you are pretty much tripping on ibogaine/iboga, there isn’t a lot of difference in the basic trip and side effects, one is bit better at this or that than the other.

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

Brett

Paul MacLennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

> Hey Howard,
>
> You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
> (And I read the french and english versions)
>
> I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique
>
> or here in English
>
> http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp
>
> the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
> and the ‘more info’ is a 404…
>
> Personally I find this site dubious.
>
> Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?
>
> Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
> with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
> is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
> info…
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> > > >>
> > >
> > > I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
> > > anything
> > > but the opening page. Is anyone doing any better?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Howard
> > >
>
>
>
>
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>

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From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:44:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Paul,

“Is the root bark the best form to get it in?”

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

Brett

Paul MacLennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 28, 2004 at 2:20:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandra wrote: I think the “they” in question is NIDA and their comment was:

‘researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping
requirement standards that pertain to Schedule I substances'”

Yes, but you live in Canada where it isn’t Schedule 1 substance,
Why do you have to prove anything to The Americans?

I know that many people already published many Real Reason why Cannabis
&Ibogaine and other herbs should be decriminalized/ legalized.
Is it ? why is real research with real researchers being ignored?
And yours wouldn’t be?
I wish you luck, maybe if the Prince of pot sign the papers everyone
Is going to listen and change the law. That will be wonderful indeed .

On the other hand (maybe it is just the journalist who heard it wrong)
ITH said.
“Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy. If possible,
we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time. We think that
cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”

This is bollix.

How can anyone say that? It is up to what the person wants and not you, If
possible, if they are ready to stop anything that is up to them. with or
without Iboga.
By saying that you are looking for disappointments.
How can you say cigarettes is a gateway to other addiction.
Where is a research that made you think that way? What makes you think that
way?
Maybe people who smoke have a consumers mentality?maybe ,I think.
You are a researchers, Maybe the only two of you in this world with license,
did you study about what is serotonin ?
Did you study how it feels to gain serotonins, especially for an addict
after taking Iboga.
When you do that first, you would know that SOME FOOD THAT ISN’T GOOD FOR
you
FEELS REALLY NICE AFTER TAKING Iboga.And people Just love it.

What feels nice doesn’t have to be healthy/unhealthy.
It feels good when increases the serotonin in the blood.

Look if you claim “At this stage, with little scientific study, the true
toxicology of ibogaine is impossible to determine – the treatment is
unlicensed in other countries and illegal in the US. The decision whether
or not to take such a risk is entirely personal.”

1. It sounds like Mash doesn’t exist. or all the other people who worked
for years with Ibogaine.
2.What kind of risk?

3.Do you have license? How? You and Marc aren’t medical Doctors,
Is it the political connection you have , or just like in India you can buy
one?
4. why would you want to find out the toxicology of Ibogaine if you worked
with Iboga at the time which is another 18 active alkaloids.(Or more)
You have a lot of work if you want to know that.

5. if there is a risk. Why would you take it Sandra?

I think it can be more fun to write a research about how to confuse
journalist and have them write Bollix. In a serious newspaper.
Cheers

Sara Glatt

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:05:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/28/04 1:05:36 AM, carlambarnes@yahoo.com writes:

Howard, I now feel bad for even saying I thought the
only part of the ‘Deborah and Patrick show’ I didn’t
like was her not mentioning you and I thought it was
tacky. Everyone does the same thing except not so
well.

I didn’t supply everyone with pharmaceutical grade ibogaine for their FDA
study. What I don’t understand is why you feel bad.

Howard

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 27, 2004 at 9:57:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana Why not do ibogaine?

It seems to me Dana should either take ibogaine or stop being such a vocal advocate. It comes accross that you are more interested in getting your picture in the paper.

It was dishonest to imply that ibogaine freed you from a speed addiction.

CSI at least made an effort to talk with people who have experienced it. I did encourage them to do it, but hey, tv writers are not ibogaine advocates.

Jerry Stahl, the writer, told me – and I believe him – that he had never heard of Dana Beal or Cures not Wars before yesterday and did not base the episode on him.

_________________________________________________________________
Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

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From: GERMAN3G@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] cancel me now
Date: February 27, 2004 at 9:35:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is German3G@aol.com

Cancel me NOW

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price-list
Date: February 27, 2004 at 8:21:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did NOT send this e-mail to the list. DO NOT download the attatchment!!!!!!!

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Deborah Patrick CSI Dana in the news
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:57:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana other then being wrong about almost everything
you said about the csi episode which I thought was
boring but good as far as explaining ibogaine, but
you’ve never said you were ever a cocaine and
amphetamine addict? If you were, you very imply here
that ibogaine freed you from addiction. Except you’ve
never taken ibogaine! I have seen Patrick, Marko,
others on this list all nudge fun at you for talking
and talking and talking about ibogaine but you won’t
do it!!

Why? Don’t you want to see what it’s like?

Patrick, you’re not allowed to write 10 funny
paragraphs that let Dana off the hook like you usually
do so everyone stops talking about it! Or you are, but
it won’t help!

Dana Why not do ibogaine?

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Get it while you can. A Dana/CSI article in the NY
Daily news including a
photograph.

http://www.nydailynews.com/02-26-2004/news/gossip/story/168041p-146864c.html

ORIGINAL ARTICLE
******************

Activist: ‘CSI’ is high on lie

Dana Beal CBS has provoked the wrath of a group of
former junkies and their
supporters who are spitting mad about tonight’s
episode of “CSI: Crime Scene
Investigation.”

Ex-cocaine and amphetamine user Dana Beal, who heads
Cures Not Wars – which
promotes the legalization of a substance called
Ibogaine as a cure for drug
addiction – told Lowdown that his 100-member group
plans to stage a lunchtime
protest today in front of Black Rock, the CBS
corporate headquarters in midtown.

A CBS spokesman declined to comment yesterday.

The problem, Beal said, is that the “CSI” episode,
titled “Getting Off,” is
rife with misinformation about Ibogaine, which is
widely used around the world
but illegal in the United States. “It has someone
driving on Ibogaine, which
you can’t do!” Beal complained, noting that the drug
induces a trancelike state.

“We would describe it as an addiction interrupter,”
said Beal, whose group
has been campaigning for Food and Drug
Administration approval. “When you are in
the throes of it you are in ‘sleep paralysis’ – you
are awake but your body
is asleep. … When the Ibogaine effect wears off,
you don’t go back into
withdrawal. Once you come down from it, you are
normal.”

Even worse, Beal said, tonight’s show depicts a
cultlike underground program
apparently based on Cures Not Wars. “The episode has
someone selling Ibogaine.
But it’s absolutely forbidden. We could get
investigated by the DEA. We don’t
need that headache right now!”

Personally, I haven’t heard the word Ibogaine since
1972, when Rolling Stone
correspondent Hunter S. Thompson famously accused
Democratic presidential
candidate Edmund Muskie of abusing the drug – an
alkaloid powder derived from the
root bark of an exotic African shrub.

Thompson, maybe under the influence of something
himself, wrote that the
“Ibogaine Effect” was a “serious factor” in Muskie’s
losing campaign. He claimed
that Muskie was “far gone in a bad Ibogaine frenzy.”

So far in the 2004 campaign, the only evidence of an
“Ibogaine effect” came
during the Wisconsin primary race, when a Cures Not
Wars activist in Madison
handed a brochure to Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of
Democratic front-runner John
Kerry.

“She came back and got two more copies, and she said
she was giving one to
John,” Beal said. Calls and E-mails to the Kerry
campaign were not answered.

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:51:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Patrick, this one I kept. Thanks 🙂

Not bad advice. I have a whole collection from here of
you. You’ve changed a lot in the years I’ve read this,
I still have the collection with you, Randy, Dave I
think 3 or 4 more people which were the I hate the 12
steps collection 😉 There’s a lot of those 😉 😉
😉

Congratulations, you’ve gotten over it! It’s only
taken 3 years? 4? 😉

In case you didn’t notice I’m kidding 😉 Thank you,
you’ve been one of the main things that’s kept me
going this far! When I was still on methadone I
started reading your writing and came here. Nobody who
ever read anything you wrote believed you would ever
stay clean when I showed it to counselers when I was
first talking about doing ibogaine.

Keep being you! 😉

Love to everyone here.

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 06:45:09PM -0800],
[deartheo@ziplip.com] wrote:

| but I am happy your doing well and
| am curious about how your after care went (besides
12 step programs,
| your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t
already know regarding
| 12 step pushers).

I did ibogaine twice — to get unsprung —
back-to-back, at St. Kitts.
Since that point in time I’ve dosed on various
occasions for different
reasons. After ibogaine — Take I — I lasted for
roughly 35 minutes left
to my own devices. As soon as the plane landed in
San Juan, ’bout 35
minutes is the length of time it took me to find
dope, cop, and restart my
relationship with it.

I was dumped into “treatment,” where I lasted for a
little over 2 weeks
before getting thrown out. Ostensibly for “using,”
but the actual reasons
are much closer to my attitude about it when
confronted with this fact. I
didn’t nail myself to a cross and explain how highly
super-sorry I am.
Because … I wasn’t.

My personal response to traditional “drug
treatment,” post-ibogaine was
probably WORSE than the 50 times I’d been dumped
into it pre-ibogaine.
Because, I wasn’t dopesick; I had a much lower level
of desperation, and
being dosed with a very mild entheogen beforehand,
did not in any way
change my resonance-check. This … is … a buncha
bullshit. And,
nothing much has changed, except I have even greater
awareness that none
of this is doing a fucking thing for me.

I blew out, basically stayed high for about 6 weeks
while bouncing in and
out of “treatment” programs; redosed with ibogaine,
and … that was
Halloween, 1999. I’ve been clean this entire
millennium, who woulda
thunk.

What I did after ibogaine II, was go to an ashram
just outside of Bangkok.
Not to visit and hang out, but actually to live
there. I stayed for a
little over 3 months, and while I was there, I did a
lot of LSD.

I had set, setting, and intent. While most of the
people where I was at
had no idea exactly why I left the planet — they
were highly supportive
and kind to me. “Well, basically, what you’re doing
is wonderful. And,
this is why we’re all sitting here in an ashram in
the middle of nowhere.
Just, keep going!”

Had I taken these same actions within the United
States, the outcome would
have been considerably different. Instead of
wrapping up a lifetime of
drug depednence, and being given the opportunity to
reset, reintegrate,
and resurrect … it would have taken no more than
48 hours for some
helpful person to have me Baker-acted. I would have
synched back down to
planet Earth, tranked down, in a padded room
somewhere, in 4-point
restraints.

Instead of completing the process of reintegration
— which took a LOT of
processor time on the Cosmic CPU — it would have
amounted to Yet Another
manifestation of my perpetual drug problems kicking
up their shit. The
End. Here’s a stack of scripts, here’s your new
home at a lockdown
in-patient facility, and if you behave, we’ll take
the straitjacket off
and let you go smoke cigarettes on the playground.

While the odds that following this exact roadmap
will work for anybody
else, are relatively low. The overall truth
remains. If what you’re
doing is not working; has never worked; and you
really do want to step out
of drug dependence … perhaps you need to figure
out something else to
do.

To cop a cliche from those 12-step things, “A good
definition of insanity,
is doing the same thing, over and over again, and
expecting different
results.”

Ya know what … that happens to be true. I
*really* wanted to cut loose
heroin. I’d been in therapy since, basically, birth
(well no, since Jr.
High School); I have never felt any resonance with a
single fucking thing
anybody had to say to me while I was at the
receiving end of, “drug
treatment.” So, then, perhaps … I need to do
something else. Because
the truth is … my inability to get in tune with
the dogma of some cult;
has exactly NOTHING to do with cutting loose junk.

What I actually learned from a lifetime of
“treatment” and what I found
while accessing much greater spaces/places/truths
while dosing with
entheogens … was EXACTLY THE SAME: as long as you
keep digging in shit,
you’re gonna be covered in it. Find something else
to do.

What worked for me was connecting myself to the God
of my understanding,
and HOLDING ON TO THAT CONNECTION.

So, anywaze, that’s me … I don’t know you, what
you’ve written here:

| I’ll work you into my 9th step : )

Indicates that you’re working the steps.

Okay, so … when you do this and go to meetings; do
you — at least SOME
OF THE TIME — come away filled with some greater
level of strength, hope,
and/or understanding …?

If yes, well, that fucking rocks. Keep doing it.

If no, well … have you tried to find a group that
works for you and
people who are willing to accept your beliefs. The
12-steps dig the
sponsor concept; do you have one? If you don’t,
well … is there ANYBODY
in the meetings you go to, that has anything you
want? If yes, then
FUCKING TALK TO THEM.

I don’t work the steps, per se, although much of
what I do on a daily
basis, lights up and synchs with prolly at least
half of the concepts the
12-steps are based upon — but, if they’re not
working for you, have you
tried Rational Recovery (the not-for-profit version
I b’lieve is called
SMART)? Randy would know much more about the
specifics of this paradigm
than I do, ‘cuz he actually used it post-ibogaine.

The only thing I would add to whatever paradigm
you’re using — you can
name it anything you want, you can call it Step 13,
Step 1,
WhateverTheFuck, amounts to: JUST KEEP GETTING BACK
UP … because
eventually you WILL stand. All you *must* do, is
believe that it is
possible.

Success — at anything — just amounts to
persistence, “Sorry, I’m very
hard-headed and I’m not listening to you explain my
limitations to me.
I’m, just, gonna keep going. Because I’m too stupid
to give up.”

Other than all of that, much of what people have to
say about “addiction,”
is — at best — pseudoscience. “Once an addict,
always an addict,” is
also a crock of shit. The brain reorganizes itself,
it’s called
neuroplasticity. An extremely cool starting-point,
is this thing here:

The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the
Power of Mental Force.
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D

This is a very easy to read book, and gives you a
lot of references to
read sideways, if you want to gain some greater
level of understanding.

Anywaze, this is getting long, and I could write
another thousand
paragraphs on this topic; wait, no, nevermind, I
already have.

| You are probably correct, I appoligize to all
involved…it’s very
| frustrating to come to this list for some kind of
support in the sense
| that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga
is mentioned, but
| their apperars to be very little of that and what
I wrote was out of
| that frustation and I’m definately no where close
to be done yet in
| regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse
though, I should have
| bit my tounge…

This list is whatever people choose to turn it into.
I’m not the
babysitter. Everyone is free to say anything they
like … however, that
also applies to me. When random, pseudoanonymous
idiots, land here and
start dumping hate. I’m really not required to say,
“That’s very special,
thank you.”

There actually IS another ibogaine list here;
sacrament. It was created
for people who had done ibogaine and were trying to
maintain.

But … nobody ever posts to it. I think maybe 75
people signed up, said
a few things, and went back to sleep.

*THIS* list has — as of last week — passed just
over 5,000 people. The
same 75-100 have written 95% of the messages. The
rest … I dunno why
they’re here. But this isn’t very unusual. We’ve
been running online
conferences since long before www. and port 80
existed; before @ signs
existed; and … this is pretty much the dynamic …
it doesn’t seem to
make a difference whether the subject is music,
hacking, drugs, or
“recovery.”

I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t write much
to the list right now;
but there are always at least a handful of
individuals here who have been
there, done that, maintained in a variety of ways;
and consistently
provide advice that contains at least SOME useful
elements.

Laters,

Patrick

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From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Price-list— warning virus
Date: February 28, 2004 at 5:23:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie–

You’re last email had a virus, my anti-virus intercepted it…. you should
download an antivirus and scan/clean your computer before it’s too late…

The following link will take you to Cnet’s download page for AVG 6- it’s
their free edition and it’s only a 5 meg download— it should do the job,

http://download.com.com/3000-2239-10172843.html?tag=lst-0-25

Adam

—– Original Message —–
From: <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Price-list

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, Iboga yesterday Ibogaine today what is it going to …
Date: February 27, 2004 at 6:29:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mexico and Dr. P , saound great. I tried to get credentials on Dr. P and could not get a straight answer from thier organization or on the web. I just want to know what kind of Doc he is so if anything happens, they can handle it. Is this such a big request or just the neurotic compulsions of my OCD/ amxiety disorder / bipolor crap and general mistrust of everything and every one?

Can anyone send me info on this please?
Danka

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Price-list
Date: February 27, 2004 at 5:37:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Narcotics Farm Animal
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:43:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

While down in the dim grey wards and dayrooms
where the ‘do-wrongs’
Hock and spit and shiver and vomit

He asks me what the American flag means to me
And I tell him Soak in heroin, doc, and Ill suck it
Says: I got the wrong ATT I TUDE
I should see the chaplain and get straight with jesus.

I didnt know this but Ft. Worth had a narcotics farm like Lexington.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:32:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Allison and everyone who sent warmth, and to those who merely thought
it too. Much obliged and helpful for sure.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

Preston, You sound so down. Can send warmth in a message but wish could do
more. Know how you feel. Hard to know what to say but hang in there.
Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 27 February 2004 5:04:22 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] stuff

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all- even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.
Preston

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] CSI
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:21:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not sure how many of you watched the CSI ibogaine program but, the
actual information provided on ibogaine and noribogaine did not appear negative to
me. That they mentioned nor was quite amazing but, other than that the
adventure itself was pretty boring compared to the usual fare of the program. Dana
got some great publicity out of the show…a wonderful picture of himself in
the NY daily news. It probably benefited CSI as well. Now to see if any
positive play comes out of it.

Howard

Howard S. Lotsof
President
Dora Weiner Foundation
POB 10032
Staten Island, NY 10301-0032
USA
dir tel, 1 718 442-2754
dir fax, 1 718 442-1957
email, dwf123@earthlink.net
http://www.doraweiner.org

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:19:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You also can try wild lettuce.

as a side note for people interested in wild lettuce, get the resin,
rather than the whole plant.

wild lettuce is an effective analgesic/sedative, but it is quite low
potency. if using the raw plant, you have to smoke an AWFUL lot of it for
any effect. the resin is still fairly low potency, but you don’t need
nearly as much of it…. which is a lot easier on the lungs.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:14:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 5:29:29 PM, think@francomm.com writes:

Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Ibogaine: Proceedings of the First International Conference

A wonderful book.

Howard

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:04:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You also can try wild lettuce.
Here is some info.
Alternative painkiller, ultimate relaxation. Opium-like. Wild Lettuce is
also known as Lettuce opium. This is because the strong narcotic and
hypnotic effects are similar, but milder psycho-active effects than opium
from Papaver somniferum. The plant is used centuries because of its sedating
and anaesthetic properties. In the 19th century, doctors and pharmacists
regularly used lactucarium, a plant extract, when normal opium wasn’t
available. Lactucarium is a safe opium substitute, because it is not
addictive and even large amounts of lactucarium(lWild Lettuce extract) never
lead to overdosage. In the 70’s, Lacuca virosa(wild Lettuce) was very
popular in America. There it was sold under multiple names like Lettuce
opium, l’opium and lettucene. A few Wild Lettuce Joints will bring you in a
very relaxed and euphoric mood. It will also be very easy to fall asleep.
The active ingredient of Wild Lettuce is Lactucine.
3 joints

This is one of the plants available in my treatment.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: jon [mailto:jfreed1@umbc.edu]
Verzonden: vrijdag 27 februari 2004 20:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you do
so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but here’s
a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

Kratom is quite safe. There is some risk of dependence with regular, heavy
usage; but that’s really the only health concern. I would think in very
high doses, there might be a risk of respiratory depression; but you’d
probably throw up before you could drink that much of it.

The primary active chemical in it is mitragynine, an opioid agonist,
roughly comparable in strength to codeine. Though mitragynine is
structurally related to the tryptamine psychedelics, it doesn’t have any
psychedelic effects; rather, it’s effects are very similar to codeine or
other low to mid potency opiates.. analgesia, euphoria, cough supression,
and sometimes nausea.

I use Daniel Siebert’s recipe for making the tea, which works quite well.
For 40 g of crushed leaf, add 1 L of water. Boil gently for 15 minutes.
Strain the leaves, making sure to squeeze all the liquid out, and save the
liquid in another pot.

Put the leaves back in the original pot, and another litre of water, and
boil again for 15 minutes. Strain the leaves again, adding this to the pot
from the previous boiling. At this point, you can throw out the leaves, as
all the goodness will be in the water. Then boil the water until only
about 100 ml of it is left.

To be honest, I probably don’t usually boil it all the way down to 100 ml,
cause I’m impatient…eheh. But the more liquid you boil off, the more
potent it’ll be (i.e., the less volume of liquid you’ll have to drink). I
usually add a good deal of sugar as well, as it’s pretty bitter.

I would highly recommend this for anyone suffering from withdrawal
symptoms (if you can’t get ahold of ibogaine, of course..eheh).

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 3:01:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon and the others who supplied info about this plant. I’d never ever
heard of it before, so it is something I shall keep in mind for future
reference.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you
do
so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but
here’s
a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

I would highly recommend this for anyone suffering from withdrawal
symptoms (if you can’t get ahold of ibogaine, of course..eheh).

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:46:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you do
so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but here’s
a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

I would highly recommend this for anyone suffering from withdrawal
symptoms (if you can’t get ahold of ibogaine, of course..eheh).

From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:41:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of the most authoritative books on the subject currently available is

Ibogaine: Proceedings from the 1st International Conference by Kenneth R.
Alper and Stanley D. Glick
published by Academic Press.

It is heavy on the academic side but if you can wrap your head around the
pharmacology and technical jargon (or find a tutor like I’m trying to do),
it’s an excellent resource.
—————————————————————————-
———————————-

**I’m gonna trot right over to the local public library and go the ILL
(Interlibrary loan) route to see if I can
borrow a copy to look at (prior to plunking down $85.00). I think I can
decide quickly if its way over my
head. I do have some backgound, Bachelor’s in Psychology, heavy on biology
electives. Instead of
Master’s in Psych, became a nurse practitioner.

Thank you so much.

ps: Stanley Glick, if he has his research physically located at Albany Med,
is only a 30 minute drive from
here. I’ll bet the Library there has a copy of this book.

ann
think@francomm.com

—————————————————————————-
———————————————-

—– Original Message —–
From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:28:46 -0500
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

This is a learning curve to end all learning curves!! My brain cells
are
being filled to the max. I’m reading everything here plus sending for
all
the books I can find on the subject. I received, “The Ibogaine Story”
in the snailmail yesterday. The three of us are fighting over it 😎
I have another book – something about breaking open the brain
on order. Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Thanks everybody,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and
read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions
lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

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From: CGEOBET@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:21:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My mailbox is full, so please stop all e-mails. Thanks!!

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:09:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of the most authoritative books on the subject currently available is

Ibogaine: Proceedings from the 1st International Conference by Kenneth R. Alper and Stanley D. Glick
published by Academic Press.

It is heavy on the academic side but if you can wrap your head around the pharmacology and technical jargon (or find a tutor like I’m trying to do), it’s an excellent resource.

—– Original Message —–
From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:28:46 -0500
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

This is a learning curve to end all learning curves!! My brain cells are
being filled to the max. I’m reading everything here plus sending for all
the books I can find on the subject. I received, “The Ibogaine Story”
in the snailmail yesterday. The three of us are fighting over it 😎
I have another book – something about breaking open the brain
on order. Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Thanks everybody,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions
lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

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Graffiti.net free e-mail @ www.graffiti.net
Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 1:58:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those looking into Kratom, I suggest informing yourself before you do so about it effects and safe usage.

There isn’t that much information published about it for users but here’s a good place to start:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/kratom/kratom.shtml

—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 12:06:58 -0500 (EST)
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all-
even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.

Hey man,

If you’re still out of opiates, you might wanna see if you can get a hold
of some kratom. It’s a plant from Thailand.. made into a tea, it has an
effect similar to opium.

It’s legal, and relatively cheap to buy off the net…

good luck

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From: “ChrisisMach” <fisch@ist.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME
Date: February 27, 2004 at 1:35:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, “dave” <dmurphy@airmail.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
i am very intrested and very sorry to have to cancel my subscription
but my mailbox is already too full to handle the amount of mails from
ibogaine@mindvox

thanx Crispy

dave <dmurphy@airmail.net> schrieb:

PLEASE STOP ALL EMAILS TO ME OR MY EMAIL

THANKS VERY MUCH

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From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 1:26:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Sara…

Our protocol has been undergoing a lot of revision lately, that’s true. Our process is at this time focused on gathering the data that is needed in order to publish our results in the future. We don’t necessarily need to have the PHd credentials ourselves but our research team, which is different from the treatment team will be guided by an IRB (Institutional Review Board) -those are the one’s with the credentials and their job is to oversee the quality of our data collection and help us in creating our policies.

You will see more details about this in the future when we are ready to share it. We’re still learning much at this time…

I will not pretend to know much or enough about the deaths that have occured except for what I have seen published, and even that is always taken with a grain of salt as each article is often flavoured by the opinion of the journalist. I have not, as far as I remember, attempted to comment on any of it…

I think the “they” in question is NIDA and their comment was:

‘researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping requirement standards that pertain to Schedule I substances’

In my last email, I may have bitten off more than I can chew by opening up this dialogue. I get excited about the potentials because I think much lies in effectively communicating the potentials uses of Ibo to the world with tact, grace and skill.

All I can say is that we’re working on it, we’ll all see what happens in actuality…

cheers,

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:40:10 +0100
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

Sandra, I wish you a lot of luck and support in the process.

Sandra, you need to have
A PHD , from a recognized university , which isn’t a third world University
of course.
Before that, any of your data isn’t going to be acknowledged.
For example : a person who has been practicing dental surgery for 20 years
in Afghanistan will NOT get a license to do the same in any western oriented
country. Unless he will prove his credibility. that means that He will need
to pay money and study again to have the license.

There is an official path that you’ll need to follow before.
Anything that you write, having an official university degree in that field,
health care provider or MD PHD, anything like it, will give you the right
to be acknowledged.

But there are other ways in this system which isn’t Global yet.
In India you can get a PHD just buy one.
Then you can do your research in India they are open minded to this
treatment they have more the 7million people addicted to Heroin.
If you do the same thing there you can help so many more people
having to 1500$ or 2800$ per person and not getting anywhere officially
is kind of strange, for that much money ,you can save maybe 20 heroin
addicts in India, that will put you in the light “prince of pot became
mother Teresa”
kind of thing.

you must prove the credibility of your treatment.
and there is a way.
To start with , ITH gives the impression from the publication and from this
list . that the way the treatment is conducted is changing every half a
year.
Beside if it was true that ITH learn so much about the six Ibogaine Deaths
Z”L.
How come we get to read all those questions about the U.K Death?
I’m really curious to know the truth.
Also I would like to know who are “THEY” and how a document that
They require looks like.

The thing is about India , you can collect Data non stop and cheap
Instead of 14 people treatment , big publication.
140 people treatment huge publication.

Best of luck.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: sandra . [mailto:windforme@graffiti.net]
Verzonden: vrijdag 27 februari 2004 10:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

That’s what were in the process of trying to do at ITH, provide the
documentation that they require. I have the docs for this particular case
and more on the way…

another one of my fave quotes:

‘it’s not a problem, just a detail.’

Keep movin’ towards solution oriented strategies,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:48:48 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

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From: “ann b mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:28:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a learning curve to end all learning curves!! My brain cells are
being filled to the max. I’m reading everything here plus sending for all
the books I can find on the subject. I received, “The Ibogaine Story”
in the snailmail yesterday. The three of us are fighting over it 😎
I have another book – something about breaking open the brain
on order. Anybody know of any other books on the subject?

Thanks everybody,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions
lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:21:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Well, anything other than a controlled experiment is technically anecdotal
evidence…

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] old story . Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:13:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my four years of initiating people with Iboga I found out that many of
the ex- Ritalin users (as kids)
Like to use cocaine as adults . Does anyone think there is a connection ? <

Hey,
Isn’t Ritalin something like cocaine in how it work on the brain? And,
aren’t kids who take Ritalin unable to then go into military service when
they get older as they’ve been taking mind altering substances? I could
swear I’ve read that somewhere too. I think that indeed there probably is a
connection Sara, in that Ritalin is a speed and so too is cocaine. Get a
person used to taking such substances, the chances they will seek out like
substances as adults makes sense.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 4:23 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] old story . Does anyone think there is a connection ?

My daughter is dyslectic , she is 9 years old she needs a special reading
lessons individually. An
American initiate of mine , who has PHD , in health care providing , said
that in the U.S she will be given Ritalin. When she was 7 years old, she was
frustrated that other kids could read but she couldn’t .
Now, with a little more attention she’s very happy to be able to read. You
can’t medicate frustrations,
And frustrations can grow both ways it can be come a wake up call activate
your creative side or gets you depressed.
When starting to medicate the chance that the frustration will get you
creative is 0.
That is what the Pharmaceuticals rather have. You become dependant on all
kind of medication
And that’s normal , tolerated .as long as the kids sit down and shut up then
it is fine.
But since my daughter doesn’t get any medication she found her own way of
exploration, Art.
She can be painting , drawing and giving remarks to the Iboga initiates
,which are very inspiring.
Her paintings are very colourful and joyful to look at. her confidence is
back.
When you are confident with your abilities to perform , express your inner
world you would find healing.(I think).
for some Ritaling is the answer but wouldn’t you look for alternatives if
you got the choice ?
In my four years of initiating people with Iboga I found out that many of
the ex- Ritalin users (as kids)
Like to use cocaine as adults . Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Pharmaceutical blackmail
By Vin Suprynowicz
web posted August 21, 2000
About that “zero drug tolerance” policy in our schools: Does it really mean
what it says? Or would it come closer to the truth for school administrators
to admit what they really oppose are pushers offering competing
consciousness-altering substances?
Do our public schools today constitute a kind of official, tax-supported
dope monopoly which will even threaten to take children away from parents
should they refuse to go along with the mind-numbing nostrums which our
schoolmasters themselves now press on nearly a quarter of our young boys,
the better to keep those valuable but restless butts planted in their seats?
The Albany Times Union, in a May 7 copyrighted story, tells what happened to
parents Michael and Jill Carroll of Albany, N.Y., when they tried to take
their son, 7-year-old Kyle, off the Ritalin.
Kyle Carroll was first prescribed Ritalin last year, after he fell behind at
school. Teachers drew up an Individualized Education Plan, a standard course
of action for children with “special needs.” But last fall, when Kyle
started second grade, the Ritalin didn’t seem to be doing much good.
Furthermore, the Carrolls grew concerned that Kyle was only sleeping about
five hours a night and eating just one meal a day — lunch. So they told
school officials they wanted to take Kyle off the Ritalin for two weeks to
see if that helped.
That’s when they got a call, and then a visit, from a Child Protective
Services worker, based on a complaint from Kyle’s school guidance counselor.
The charge? “Child abuse,” in the form of “medical neglect.” In plain
English? Expressing doubts about keeping their child on dope.
As a result, the Times Union reports the Carrolls are now on a statewide
list of alleged child abusers, and find themselves “thrust into an Orwellian
family court battle to clear their name and ensure their child isn’t removed
from their home.”
The child remains on the medication, “in part because they fear child
welfare workers will take him away if they don’t,” the Albany daily reports.
Furthermore, the Albany paper found the Carrolls’ case is far from unique,
reporting: “Public schools are increasingly accusing parents of child abuse
and neglect if they balk at giving their children medication such as
Ritalin, a stimulant being prescribed to more and more students.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics reports as many as 3.8 million
schoolchildren, mostly boys, have now been diagnosed with the newly-coined
“ADHD” — attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder — a psychiatric
“disease” with symptoms to which most of our grandparents would have
responded by simply smiling: “Boys will be boys.” Or perhaps by asking,
“Could it be that he finds your school boring? Does it really make sense to
spend three or four years teaching reading, a skill easily mastered in six
weeks if you’d just use phonics?”
At least a million children now take Ritalin for this “disorder.” In two
school districts near Virginia Beach, Va., for instance, a 1999 study by
psychologist Gretchen LeFever found fully 20 percent of white boys in the
fifth grade in the 1995-96 school year were receiving prescription drugs for
ADHD. And even the AAP acknowledged in a recent study that many cases are
misdiagnosed.
“This thing is so scary,” says Patricia Weathers, of Millbrook, a suburb of
Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Officials at the Millbrook school district called police
and child protective services when she took her 9-year-old son, Michael
Mozer, off medications earlier this year.
Weathers reported her child’s prescribed drug cocktail — including Ritalin,
the anti-depressant Paxil, and Dexedrine (another stimulant, like Ritalin)
caused her boy — now attending a private school — to hallucinate.
“Absent evidence that the lives of children are at stake when they’re not on
Ritalin,” USA Today editorialized this week, “no arm of the state should be
ramming the drug treatment down parents’ — and children’s — throats.”
Amen to that. The underlying problem here is the notion that children belong
first to the state — that they’re best “socialized” in state-run
institutions, and that biological parents are allowed to retain custody only
at the discretion of school and “child welfare” officials, who after all
have “professional diplomas,” and thus “know best.”
No free country can long operate under such a presumption, with its
inevitable corrosive effect on the family. And this — at least as much as
the corresponding academic failures of the public schools — is what drives
the large and growing movement for separation of school and state. (See:
www.sepschool.org)
Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas
Review-Journal. His book, “Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom
Movement, 1993-1998,” is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web
site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html.
Other stories by this author: (open in a new window)
Could they really have done it on purpose? (August 7, 2000)
Another silly prohibition (June 1999)
Give these women guns (October 25, 1999)
I watched the Bill of Rights dying last week (October 4, 1999)

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 12:06:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate
painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda
known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all-
even
drinking the crap just makes it worse.
Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.

Hey man,

If you’re still out of opiates, you might wanna see if you can get a hold
of some kratom. It’s a plant from Thailand.. made into a tea, it has an
effect similar to opium.

It’s legal, and relatively cheap to buy off the net…

good luck

From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:02:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Paul,

I’d say it depends on your objective in taking the iboga…. if it’s
addiction related then hcl is probably the way to go, that seems to be the
consensus on this list….

But just to clear things up, there are 4 main options out there (that I’m
aware of)..

from the weakest up-
1. root (up to half a kilo or equivalent in shavings and brew)
2. rootbark (much more potent, 20 – 40 gms, alkaloid content varies though)
(bwitis discard the bark, consider it ‘unclean’)
3. Indra (18 year old batch, 5 to 7 grms seems to be a proper dose)
4. HCl ( 5-15mg/kilo bodyweight, and 1 gram will set you back some $300 chez
Marko)

Having done hcl and indra on a few occasions and the root itself in africa,
there’s no comparison, fresh root has alot more rocket-fuel going for it…
It also has ‘mass’; the stuff goes active in the stomache, one actually can
feel this unnatural, bubbling, heat in the belly, there are fumes that rise
up which makes breathing extremely unpleasant.. ..another big advantage is
that since with the root you get to eat and drink plenty, there’s no problem
with the vomitting… it’s not dry-heaves nor as taxing as with hcl/indra.
Of course one can counter/alleviate the vomitting and particularly the
dry-heaves and nausea with various medicinal compounds but I really believe
that the vomitting is an integral part of the cleansing.

So all in all, I feel that eating the root was the most natural and the
intended form… and you can’t help but feel that the taste was *designed*
to throw you on your knees and exorcising your ego (perhaps allowing you to
see things you couldn’t otherwise perceive)…

I don’t like Indra, I mean, I like the idea of it, I just don’t like an 18
year old batch- on the 3 occassions that I tried it, one was ok, the other
two I found the stuff really volatile…

Adam

—– Original Message —–
From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 2:43 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Hey Howard,

You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
(And I read the french and english versions)

I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page

http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique

or here in English

http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp

the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
and the ‘more info’ is a 404…

Personally I find this site dubious.

Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?

Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
info…

Adam

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
anything
but the opening page. Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:42:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 3:04:31 PM, bcalabrese@yahoo.com writes:

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read
everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

That is http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html

Howard

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 10:03:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Paul,

“Is the root bark the best form to get it in?”

Be careful read http://www.ibogaine.manual.html, follow protocol and read everything else you can get your hands on. DO NOT TAKE precautions lightly.

Brett

Paul MacLennan <leisure1@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG”
To:
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:40:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandra, I wish you a lot of luck and support in the process.

The thing is about India , you can collect Data non stop and cheap
Instead of 14 people treatment , big publication.
140 people treatment huge publication.

Best of luck.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: sandra . [mailto:windforme@graffiti.net]
Verzonden: vrijdag 27 februari 2004 10:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

That’s what were in the process of trying to do at ITH, provide the
documentation that they require. I have the docs for this particular case
and more on the way…

another one of my fave quotes:

‘it’s not a problem, just a detail.’

Keep movin’ towards solution oriented strategies,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:48:48 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

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<)[%]

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Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just
US$9.95 per year!

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 7:03:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, You sound so down. Can send warmth in a message but wish could do more. Know how you feel. Hard to know what to say but hang in there. Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Friday, 27 February 2004 5:04:22 p.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] stuff

____________________________________________________
IncrediMail – Email has finally evolved – Click Here

From: “Paul MacLennan” <leisure1@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source
Date: February 27, 2004 at 5:43:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is the root bark the best form to get it in?

—– Original Message —–
From: “AG” <adamg@013.net.il>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] New Iboga source

Hey Howard,

You’re right, there’s not a single price on the entire list..
(And I read the french and english versions)

I found the iboga halfway down the tonic page

http://www.vegetaux.com/plantes.asp?mot=Tonique

or here in English

http://www.vegetaux.com/eng/plantes.asp

the ‘buy now’ links up to a ‘coming soon’ page..
and the ‘more info’ is a 404…

Personally I find this site dubious.

Who the hell is this pharmacist who can’t be named..?

Most of all, I hate it when someone’s not forthcoming
with the pricing… this ‘call us and we’ll haggle with you’
is fucking BS… but merci beaucoup for all the botanical
info…

Adam

I am not getting any significant information beyond a faint image on
anything
but the opening page. Is anyone doing any better?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
<)[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “sandra .” <windforme@graffiti.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 4:27:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s what were in the process of trying to do at ITH, provide the documentation that they require. I have the docs for this particular case and more on the way…

another one of my fave quotes:

‘it’s not a problem, just a detail.’

Keep movin’ towards solution oriented strategies,

Sandra

—– Original Message —–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 02:48:48 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

—
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Check out our value-added Premium features, such as an extra 20MB for just US$9.95 per year!

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] old story . Does anyone think there is a connection ?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 4:23:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Furthermore, the Carrolls grew concerned that Kyle was only sleeping about five hours a night and eating just one meal a day — lunch. So they told school officials they wanted to take Kyle off the Ritalin for two weeks to see if that helped.
That’s when they got a call, and then a visit, from a Child Protective Services worker, based on a complaint from Kyle’s school guidance counselor.
The charge? “Child abuse,” in the form of “medical neglect.” In plain English? Expressing doubts about keeping their child on dope.
As a result, the Times Union reports the Carrolls are now on a statewide list of alleged child abusers, and find themselves “thrust into an Orwellian family court battle to clear their name and ensure their child isn’t removed from their home.”
The child remains on the medication, “in part because they fear child welfare workers will take him away if they don’t,” the Albany daily reports.
Furthermore, the Albany paper found the Carrolls’ case is far from unique, reporting: “Public schools are increasingly accusing parents of child abuse and neglect if they balk at giving their children medication such as Ritalin, a stimulant being prescribed to more and more students.”
The American Academy of Pediatrics reports as many as 3.8 million schoolchildren, mostly boys, have now been diagnosed with the newly-coined “ADHD” — attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder — a psychiatric “disease” with symptoms to which most of our grandparents would have responded by simply smiling: “Boys will be boys.” Or perhaps by asking, “Could it be that he finds your school boring? Does it really make sense to spend three or four years teaching reading, a skill easily mastered in six weeks if you’d just use phonics?”
At least a million children now take Ritalin for this “disorder.” In two school districts near Virginia Beach, Va., for instance, a 1999 study by psychologist Gretchen LeFever found fully 20 percent of white boys in the fifth grade in the 1995-96 school year were receiving prescription drugs for ADHD. And even the AAP acknowledged in a recent study that many cases are misdiagnosed.
“This thing is so scary,” says Patricia Weathers, of Millbrook, a suburb of Poughkeepsie, N.Y. Officials at the Millbrook school district called police and child protective services when she took her 9-year-old son, Michael Mozer, off medications earlier this year.
Weathers reported her child’s prescribed drug cocktail — including Ritalin, the anti-depressant Paxil, and Dexedrine (another stimulant, like Ritalin) caused her boy — now attending a private school — to hallucinate.
“Absent evidence that the lives of children are at stake when they’re not on Ritalin,” USA Today editorialized this week, “no arm of the state should be ramming the drug treatment down parents’ — and children’s — throats.”
Amen to that. The underlying problem here is the notion that children belong first to the state — that they’re best “socialized” in state-run institutions, and that biological parents are allowed to retain custody only at the discretion of school and “child welfare” officials, who after all have “professional diplomas,” and thus “know best.”
No free country can long operate under such a presumption, with its inevitable corrosive effect on the family. And this — at least as much as the corresponding academic failures of the public schools — is what drives the large and growing movement for separation of school and state. (See: www.sepschool.org)
Vin Suprynowicz is assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. His book, “Send in the Waco Killers: Essays on the Freedom Movement, 1993-1998,” is available by dialing 1-800-244-2224; or via web site http://www.thespiritof76.com/wacokillers.html.
Other stories by this author: (open in a new window)
• Could they really have done it on purpose? (August 7, 2000)
• Another silly prohibition (June 1999)
• Give these women guns (October 25, 1999)
• I watched the Bill of Rights dying last week (October 4, 1999)
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:56:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 4:04:39 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

I highly advice you all DON’T drink Robotusin DM when out of opiate

painkillers either- supposedly the DM is supposed to help, but I shoulda

known better having tries shooting the shit years ago- it don’t at all-
even

drinking the crap just makes it worse.

Peace to you all. Someone send me a little warmth please.

I think everyone in the world should have an emergency dose or two of
ibogaine. Sorry about your Grandma.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:54:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/27/04 1:55:48 AM, vector620022002@yahoo.com writes:

No you’re going to watch it? I’m surprised who on this list would watch
CSI’s ibogaine episode? 😉

I do…all the time.

Howard

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 27, 2004 at 2:48:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/26/04 10:20:35 PM, deartheo@ziplip.com writes:

Yes,

Because it would lack documentation that they took ibogaine, etc., etc.

Howard

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] stuff
Date: February 26, 2004 at 11:04:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] programming
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:38:51 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

christopher
cadden

—– Original Message —–
From: tracy jones
To: Mr
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] programming

A quick lesson in programming: Rewrite history and make a movie >from the script. Direct it towards a section of the populace you want to control. Make it emotional and maybe add a few subliminals to get it firmly set. Then sit back and take advantage of the results for you better believe the stage has already been set to achieve its intended goal what ever that may be.
Tracy
Subject: The Passion

HI All,

Before I moved to Georgia ( yep- we moved here on Feb 1st), I had an opportunity to see Mel’s movie- a church was having a pre-screening and I was asked by a non-Jewsh friend to go.

Now, I grew up with Christians, dated them, they’re my cousins. From a Chroistian’s pint of view, this must be a real trip of faith. But for smeone, who isn’t, it was a gory, bloody, picture I would not pay to see. To say it was riveting was an understatement and the subtitles ! made it more so.

Unfortunately, if anyone who is even mildly anti-semetic goes to see this movie, they will be rabid when they come out. The mob scenes leave no doubt who wants Jesus dead, the high priests are very sinister and there is human type spector who implies its Jewishness. Pilate looks like a coward, who is driven by the mob. It’s awful. Scared the hell out of me, and I don’t scare easy. Not for kids under 16 in my opinion.

I was so angry that when I came home I threw out ALL of my Gibson movies and made the kids do the same. I will never see any more of his stuff. There was no diclaimer, nothing to allay fears or sooth hate either before or after this movie.

While I don’t hear the pounding of the Cossack hoofs, this movie on top of a President who is now trying to write discrimination back into the Constitution ( I don’t like gay marriage either, but this o! pens very dangerous precedents- i.e: an amendment to make Christianity the state faith- don’t laugh either), a miserable economy and I think I might just keep some liquid assets handy and a current passport. Also, I’ve received some information from unnamed cousins about “Hebrew distillers and brewers” that come right out of Henry Ford’s anti-Semetic rag “The Dearborn Independent”.( buying a Ford is like buying a Porsche or Mercedes- both Carl Porsche and Ferdinand Merceded were rising stars of the SS).

My friends are my friends (until they prove otherwise)-Christian or not. We need to be watchful for a little while and see what happens-hopefully, G-d willing, nothing will. But we must remember our past or we will be doomed to repat it.

Love to all,

Cheri

Willard Water 160.00 4 gallon case XXX concentrate. For lesser amounts 45.00 per gallon delivered. Remote depossession 25.00 paypal preferred.
http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/

The homepage and the place to sign up for Tracy’s Corner is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mr_Tracys_Corner

For complaints or assistance contact xootsuit26@softhome.net

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• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

From: “ccadden” <elgrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] remedy appendicitis
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:38:40 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

christopher
cadden

—– Original Message —–
From: tracy jones
To: Mr
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:46 PM
Subject: [Mr_Tracys_Corner] remedy appendicitis

The Appendix
The appendix extends downward from the cecum, which is the most toxic spot in the body (see drawing pate 46). It was put there to siphon away “excess” toxic energies from the cecum area of the colon. The appendix is surrounded by clusters of lymph nodes called Peyer’s patch. The cecum is the end of the small intestine ends and the beginning of the large intestine. It’s where parasites hang out. It is 6 feet up from the anus and the end of the road during colon therapy.
(Young Again, Thomas, pg 361)
A high colonic and drinking water remedies appendicitis according to Schulze.
Tracy

Willard Water 160.00 4 gallon case XXX concentrate. For lesser amounts 45.00 per gallon delivered. Remote depossession 25.00 paypal preferred.
http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/

The homepage and the place to sign up for Tracy’s Corner is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mr_Tracys_Corner

For complaints or assistance contact xootsuit26@softhome.net

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLA…
Date: February 26, 2004 at 10:04:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is one time I am glad to be sitting here in Tennessee and could not participate.
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] CSI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 9:35:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, the show is half over and personally I feel “so far, so good”!
I have already had a girlfriend/fellow Methadone Clinic buddy call for me to tune in!
Callie

From: “Dr. Thomas S. Lee” <ndezine@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] change of address
Date: February 26, 2004 at 9:00:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

move my sub over to dr.lee@starband.net

also stop everything to ndezine@yahoo.com

thanks much -t

Thomas S. Lee, NMD
NaturoDoc, LLC
1711 Stockton Hill Rd., #304
Kingman, AZ 86401
928-767-4743 Phone
928-767-4643 Fax
480-510-9310 Mobile

Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 8:54:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny you 😉

I’m not reading this list until much later, don’t need to have it spoiled
by the east coasters who are going to be seeing it at 9 while we have
to wait more hours!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 17:44:32 -0800 Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
wrote:

No you’re going to watch it? I’m surprised who on this list would
watch
CSI’s ibogaine episode? 😉

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro that was hysterical 🙂 True too 🙂

Dana is the CSI show based on you and Cures Not Wars? I read the
article
and that it what it says.

watching CSI!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:47:16 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery]
wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for
being
jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like
miscreants,

| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…? You give someone a Ph.D.
and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing
problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal. It’s like a
breath
of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche. It’s like; well,
it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana! YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 8:44:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No you’re going to watch it? I’m surprised who on this list would watch
CSI’s ibogaine episode? 😉

.:vector:.

— crownofthorns@hushmail.com wrote:
Bro that was hysterical 🙂 True too 🙂

Dana is the CSI show based on you and Cures Not Wars? I read the
article
and that it what it says.

watching CSI!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:47:16 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa”
<digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery]
wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being
jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like
miscreants,

| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…? You give someone a Ph.D.
and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing
problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal. It’s like a breath
of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche. It’s like; well, it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana! YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
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Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
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From: <crownofthorns@hushmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 8:11:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro that was hysterical 🙂 True too 🙂

Dana is the CSI show based on you and Cures Not Wars? I read the article
and that it what it says.

watching CSI!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:47:16 -0800 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
wrote:
On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery] wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being
jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like miscreants,

| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…? You give someone a Ph.D.
and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal. It’s like a breath
of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche. It’s like; well, it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana! YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
FREE encrypted email: https://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
https://www.hushmail.com/services.php?subloc=messenger&l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
https://www.hushmail.com/about.php?subloc=affiliate&l=427

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick, Iboga yesterday Ibogaine today what is it going to be tommorow?
Date: February 26, 2004 at 6:43:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

TEN YEARS OF THERAPY IN ONE NIGHT   Could a single trip on a piece of African rootbark help a junkie kick the habit? That was the claim in the 1960s, and now iboga is back in the spotlight. But is it a miracle cure? Daniel Pinchbeck decided to give it a go. And life, he says, will never be the same again…   In 1962, Howard Lotsof, a 19-year-old heroin addict in New York, ordered from a chemist iboga, a plant used in West African rituals, and tried it for extra kicks. After consuming the bitter rootbark powder, he experienced a visionary tour of his early memories. Thirty hours later, when the effects had subsided, he found that he had lost all craving for heroin, without withdrawal symptoms of any kind. He said he then gave iboga to seven other addicts and five stopped taking drugs immediately afterwards.   In 1985, Lotsof patented the ibogaine molecule for the purposes of addiction treatment, but could not get his treatment approved. In the interim years, ibogaine had been declared, along with LSD and several other psychedelic molecules, an illegal “schedule one” substance, with potential for abuse and no medical value. Although it found dedicated support among a ragtag group of countercultural activists and left-over Yippies, in 1995 the National Institutes of Health discontinued research into the substance, and pharmaceutical companies have since ignored it, perhaps due to low profit potential.   But now, interest in ibogaine is growing rapidly, passing a “tipping point” through a combination of anecdotal evidence, underground activism, journalism and scientific research. Articles have appeared in US publications ranging >from the authoritative Journal Of The American Medical Association ( Jama ) to the populist Star. The Jama piece, Addiction Treatment Strives For Legitimacy, described the drug’s stalled and tortured path through the regulatory agencies, noting that the treatment’s frustrated supporters in the US have set up an “underground railroad” to give addicts access to the drug: “While unknowable scores of addicts continue ingesting ibogaine hydrochloride purified powder – or iboga whole-plant extract containing a dozen or more active alkaloids – few trained researchers witness the events.”   The Star took a more colourful approach: “Rare Root Has Celebs Buzzing” it said, trumpeting the treatment as the hot ticket for “the numerous celebs who look for relief from their tough lives in the bottom of a bottle of Jack Daniel’s, a needle or prescription medicine”. The article insinuates that “some of our favourite A-listers” not only get cured but enjoy the hallucinations as an illicit “fringe benefit”. Outside the US, new clinics have opened in Mexico, Canada and Europe, offering reasonably priced, medically supervised opportunities to try ibogaine as a method of overcoming addiction. In fact, at one new clinic in Vancouver, the treatment is free.   Iboga is the sacred essence of the religion of the Bwiti tribe of Gabon and Cameroon. Most members of the tribe ingest it just once in their lives, during an initiation ceremony in which massive amounts of the powdered bark are consumed. Through this ritual, they become a baanzi, one who has seen the other world. “Iboga brings about the visual, tactile and auditory certainty of the irrefutable existence of the beyond,” wrote the French chemist Robert Goutarel, who studied the Bwiti. The iboga bark’s visionary power is produced by a complicated cocktail of alkaloids that seems to affect many of the known neurotransmitters, including serotonin and dopamine. Its complex molecular key may lock into the addiction receptors in a way that resets patterns and blocks the feedback loops that reinforce dependency.   In an essay on ibogaine’s anti-addictive properties, Dr Carl Anderson of McLean Hospital, Virginia, speculated that addiction is related to a disrupted relationship between the brain’s two hemispheres, and that ibogaine may cause “bihemispheric reintegration”. Ibogaine also accesses REM sleep in a powerful way – many people need considerably less sleep for several months after an ibogaine trip.   Six years ago, I became a member of the Bwiti. I had heard about ibogaine from an assistant in an anarchist bookstore in New York. On a magazine assignment, I went to Gabon and took iboga in an initiation ceremony. It was one of the most difficult, yet rewarding, experiences of my life. I had heard the substance described as “10 years of psychoanalysis in a single night” but, of course, I did not believe it. As the tribesmen played drums and sang around me until dawn, I lay on a concrete floor and journeyed back through the course of my life up to that point, witnessing forgotten scenes from childhood. At one point, I had a vision of a wooden statue walking across the room and sitting in front of me – later, I was told this was “the spirit of iboga” coming out to communicate with me.   My Bwiti initiation was complicated by a belligerent, greedy shaman who called himself The King and demanded more money from us before, during and after the ceremony. The King was also dissatisfied with the visions I described, and threatened to keep feeding me more iboga until I reported more impressive sights. The initiation, which lasted more than 20 hours, was ultimately liberating. At one point, I was shown my habitual overuse of alcohol and the effect it was having on my relationships, my writing and my psyche. When I returned to the US, I steadily reduced my drinking to a fraction of its previous level – an adjustment that seems to be permanent.   Recently, I tried ibogaine for a second time. I took it at the Ibogaine Association, a clinic in Rosarito, Mexico. I had been contacted by a heroin addict who had been inspired to take ibogaine after reading the book I wrote about my experiences: three months after his first treatment in Mexico, he was still clean – after a 12-year dependency. He told me, “Your book saved my life.” He had given Dr Martin Polanco, the clinic’s founder, a copy of my book, and he had offered me a free treatment. I was curious to see how the experience would differ away from its tribal context. My new friend wanted to take it again to reinforce the effect. We went down together.   Polanco estimates that his clinic has treated nearly 200 addicts in its first 18 months. About one third of those patients have managed to stay clean – either permanently or for a considerable period; many have returned for a second treatment. “Ibogaine needs to be much more widely available,” Polanco says. “We still have a lot to learn about how to administer it, how to work with it.” He does not think iboga is a cure for addiction, but is convinced it is a powerful tool for treatment – and, in some cases, it is a cure. He plans to set up several non-profit clinics. “This is something that should be non-profit,” he says. “After all, it is a plant. It came up from the earth. It does give you some guidance. It shows you how you really are.” He chuckles. “That can be scary.”   The Ibogaine Therapy House in Vancouver, British Columbia, opened last November. “So far, we have treated 14 people quite well,” says Marc Emery, the clinic’s founder and head of the BC Marijuana Party. “They all say that their life has improved.” Emery, nicknamed the “Prince of Pot”, is funding the free clinic with proceeds from his successful hemp seed business. “Ibogaine stops the physical addiction without causing withdrawal,” he says, “and it deals with the underlying psychological issues that lead to drug use.”   Emery estimates that treatment for each patient at the clinic costs around $1,500 ( UKP943 ), which includes two administrations of the drug. “When I found out about ibogaine, I felt that someone should be researching this, but the drug companies aren’t interested because there is no commercial potential in this type of cure.” Neither he nor Polanco is too concerned about ambiguous studies on ibogaine’s toxicity. As the Jama article noted, “One reviewer wrote that the drug’s toxicology profile was ‘less than ideal’, with bradycardia [an abnormally slow heartbeat] leading the list of worrisome adverse effects.”   ”From the masses of reports I have studied, a total of six people have died around the time they took ibogaine,” says Emery. “Some were in poor health, some took other drugs at the time of their treatment. That doesn’t scare me off. I have a lot of confidence in ibogaine.”   At this stage, with little scientific study, the true toxicology of ibogaine is impossible to determine – the treatment is unlicensed in other countries and illegal in the US. The decision whether or not to take such a risk is entirely personal. Emery notes that his clinic screens for heart problems and other medical conditions that might contraindicate the treatment. It also gives patients small daily doses of iboga for two weeks after their initial treatment. “Iboga tends to make anything bad for you taste really crappy. If possible, we want our patients to quit cigarettes at the same time. We think that cigarettes can lead people back to other addictions.”   Emery notes that nobody has so far criticised the project, and he is seeking support from local government. “Iboga tells you to change your ways or else – – it goes over all of your health and personal issues. It is like the ghost of Christmas past.”   Randy Hencken drove us from San Diego to the Ibogaine Association. A 25-year-old former heroin addict who had kicked the habit after two ibogaine treatments at the clinic, he was now working for the association, going to local methadone centres with flyers and keeping in contact with former patients. The first treatment costs $2,800 ( UKP1,760 ), including an initial medical examination and several days’ convalescence afterwards, but subsequent visits are only $600 ( UKP377 ) – and it seems most addicts need at least two doses of ibogaine to avoid relapsing.   The Ibogaine Association is in a quiet, dignified house overlooking the Pacific, decorated with Buddhist statues and yarn paintings from Mexico’s Huichol people. I was given a medical examination by Polanco and a test dose of the drug. Twentyminutes after ingesting the test dose, I started to feel nervous and light-headed. As I took the other pills – a gel-capped extract of the rootbark powder – I realised I was in for a serious trip.   The nurse led me back to my room. My head already spinning, I lay back on the bed as she hooked me up to an electrocardiograph and headphones playing ambient music.Why was I doing this again? Ibogaine is no pleasure trip. It not only causes violent nausea and vomiting, but many of the “visions” it induces amount to a painful parading of one’s deepest faults and moral failings. I had a loud, unpleasant buzzing in my ears – the Bwiti probably pound on drums throughout the ceremony to overwhelm this noise. With my eyes closed, I watched as images began to emerge like patterns out of TV static. I saw a black man in a 1940s-looking suit. He was holding the hand of a five-year-old girl and leading her up some stairs. I understood that the girl in the vision was me and that the man represented the spirit of iboga. He was going to show me around his castle.   While startling at the time, such an encounter with a seeming “spirit of iboga” is a typical vision produced by the Bwiti sacrament. In many accounts, people describe meeting a primordial African couple in the jungle Sometimes, the iboga spirit manifests itself as a “ball of light” that speaks to the baanzi, saying, “Do you know who I am? I am the chief of the world, I am the essential point!” Part of my trip took the form of an interview that was almost journalistic. I could ask direct questions of “Mr Iboga” and receive answers that were like emphatic, telegraphed shouts inside my head – even in my deeply stoned state, I managed to scrawl down in my notebook many of the responses.   I askedMr Iboga what iboga was. I was told simply: “Primordial wisdom teacher of humanity!”   Later, my personal faults and lazy, decadent habits were replayed for me in detail. When I asked what I should do, the answer was stern and paternal: “Get it straight now!”   This ideal of straightness, uprightness, kept returning during the trip – a meaningful image for me, as I suffer from scoliosis, a curvature of the spine. When I was shown other faults that seemed rather petty and insignificant, I tried to protest that some of these things really didn’t matter. Iboga would have none of it, insisting: “Everything matters!”   Iboga told me that I had no idea of the potential significance of even the smallest actions. I reviewed some events in my life and my friends’ lives that seemed bitterly unfair. Yet, in this altered state, I felt I could sense a karmic pattern behind all of them, perhaps extending back to previous incarnations. Iboga affirmed this, dictating: “God is just!”   To many readers, these insights may sound trivial. They did not feel that way at the time. They were delivered with great force and minimalist precision. While they might have been manifestations of my own mind, they seemed like the voice of an “other”. Generally, I never think in such direct terms about “God”, and “primordial wisdom teacher” is not my syntax.   During the night, I had numerous visions and ponderous metaphysical insights. At one point, I seemed to fly through the solar system and into the sun, where winged beings were spinning around the core at a tremendous rate. Up close, they looked like the gold-tinged angels in early Renaissance paintings. Perhaps due to my recent reading of the Austrian visionary Rudolf Steiner, this whole trip had a kind of eco-Christian flavour to it. At one point, I thought of humans as an expression of the Gaian Mind, the earth’s sensory organs and self-reflective capacities, at the planet’s present state of development. If we are changing quickly right now, I considered, it is only because the earth has entered an accelerated phase of transformation, forcing a fast evolution in human consciousness.   The loud buzzing sound that ibogaine produced seemed to be something like a dial tone, as if the alkaloid were in itself a device for communicating on a different frequency than the usual one. Thinking of my girlfriend and our child, I realised that I was lucky – “You are lucky!” Mr Iboga echoed. I felt tremendous, tearful gratitude that I had been given a chance to live and love, to explore and try to understand so many things.   As so often these days, I pondered on the terrible state of the world – wars and terrors and environmental ruin. I saw sheets of radioactive flame devouring cities, huge crowds reduced to cinders. I asked Mr Iboga if this was going to be the tragic fate of humanity. The answer I received was startling – and reassuring: “Everything is safe in God’s hands!”   As ludicrous as it may sound, this message has stayed with me and alleviated much paranoia and anxiety. While tripping, I decided that Mr Iboga was a form of enlightened mind, like a buddha who had chosen a different form, as a plant spirit rather than human teacher, to work with humanity, imparting a cosmic message of “tough love”. At one point I asked if he would consider incarnating as a person, and the answer I got was, basically, “Already did that!” – implying that, in some previous cycle, he had passed through the perilous stages of evolution we are now navigating. I also came away from this trip with the suspicion that iboga was the original inspiration for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Biblical tale. The plant’s placement in equatorial Africa, cradle of humanity, would support this idea, as well as its sobering moral rectitude. The “good and evil” that iboga reveals is not abstract but deeply personal, and rooted in the character of the individual.   Late in the night, I retched and vomited out bitter rootbark residue. I put on a CD of African drumming. Closing my eyes, I watched a group of smiling Bwiti women dance around a jungle bonfire. After that, the visions died down, although it was impossible to sleep until late the next night.   My friend in recovery had a less visionary experience. His faults were also paraded in front of him in repetitive loops that seemed endless. At one point, I heard him scream out, “No! No! No!” He saw a possible future for himself if he didn’t kick heroin – becoming a dishwasher, sinking into dissolute old age with a bad back and a paunch. He asked what he could do to help save the world. He was told: “Clean up your room!” Meditating on his experience later, my friend quipped, “Ibogaine is God’s way of saying, ‘You’re mine!’ ”   Daniel Pinchbeck’s book about his experiences, Breaking Open The Head: A Visionary Journey From Cynicism To Shamanism, is published by Flamingo at UKP12

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Condolences
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:51:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I am very sorry to hear about your grandma. Too bad you live so far away…..I could offer a hug and maybe something to ease your pain. I hope you know I am thinking of you.
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:44:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been clean this entire millennium, who woulda
thunk.<

Sitting here depressed.
I didn’t do igogaine twice, I’ve not been clean this millenium, my
grandmother died today- and I’m out of opiates.
LOL!
Boy, life picks the best moments to lay it all on us, no?
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show

On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 06:45:09PM -0800], [deartheo@ziplip.com] wrote:

| but I am happy your doing well and
| am curious about how your after care went (besides 12 step programs,
| your not telling anyone here anything they didn’t already know regarding
| 12 step pushers).

I did ibogaine twice — to get unsprung — back-to-back, at St. Kitts.
Since that point in time I’ve dosed on various occasions for different
reasons. After ibogaine — Take I — I lasted for roughly 35 minutes left
to my own devices. As soon as the plane landed in San Juan, ’bout 35
minutes is the length of time it took me to find dope, cop, and restart my
relationship with it.

I was dumped into “treatment,” where I lasted for a little over 2 weeks
before getting thrown out. Ostensibly for “using,” but the actual reasons
are much closer to my attitude about it when confronted with this fact. I
didn’t nail myself to a cross and explain how highly super-sorry I am.
Because … I wasn’t.

My personal response to traditional “drug treatment,” post-ibogaine was
probably WORSE than the 50 times I’d been dumped into it pre-ibogaine.
Because, I wasn’t dopesick; I had a much lower level of desperation, and
being dosed with a very mild entheogen beforehand, did not in any way
change my resonance-check. This … is … a buncha bullshit. And,
nothing much has changed, except I have even greater awareness that none
of this is doing a fucking thing for me.

I blew out, basically stayed high for about 6 weeks while bouncing in and
out of “treatment” programs; redosed with ibogaine, and … that was
Halloween, 1999. I’ve been clean this entire millennium, who woulda
thunk.

What I did after ibogaine II, was go to an ashram just outside of Bangkok.
Not to visit and hang out, but actually to live there. I stayed for a
little over 3 months, and while I was there, I did a lot of LSD.

I had set, setting, and intent. While most of the people where I was at
had no idea exactly why I left the planet — they were highly supportive
and kind to me. “Well, basically, what you’re doing is wonderful. And,
this is why we’re all sitting here in an ashram in the middle of nowhere.
Just, keep going!”

Had I taken these same actions within the United States, the outcome would
have been considerably different. Instead of wrapping up a lifetime of
drug depednence, and being given the opportunity to reset, reintegrate,
and resurrect … it would have taken no more than 48 hours for some
helpful person to have me Baker-acted. I would have synched back down to
planet Earth, tranked down, in a padded room somewhere, in 4-point
restraints.

Instead of completing the process of reintegration — which took a LOT of
processor time on the Cosmic CPU — it would have amounted to Yet Another
manifestation of my perpetual drug problems kicking up their shit. The
End. Here’s a stack of scripts, here’s your new home at a lockdown
in-patient facility, and if you behave, we’ll take the straitjacket off
and let you go smoke cigarettes on the playground.

While the odds that following this exact roadmap will work for anybody
else, are relatively low. The overall truth remains. If what you’re
doing is not working; has never worked; and you really do want to step out
of drug dependence … perhaps you need to figure out something else to
do.

To cop a cliche from those 12-step things, “A good definition of insanity,
is doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting different
results.”

Ya know what … that happens to be true. I *really* wanted to cut loose
heroin. I’d been in therapy since, basically, birth (well no, since Jr.
High School); I have never felt any resonance with a single fucking thing
anybody had to say to me while I was at the receiving end of, “drug
treatment.” So, then, perhaps … I need to do something else. Because
the truth is … my inability to get in tune with the dogma of some cult;
has exactly NOTHING to do with cutting loose junk.

What I actually learned from a lifetime of “treatment” and what I found
while accessing much greater spaces/places/truths while dosing with
entheogens … was EXACTLY THE SAME: as long as you keep digging in shit,
you’re gonna be covered in it. Find something else to do.

What worked for me was connecting myself to the God of my understanding,
and HOLDING ON TO THAT CONNECTION.

So, anywaze, that’s me … I don’t know you, what you’ve written here:

| I’ll work you into my 9th step : )

Indicates that you’re working the steps.

Okay, so … when you do this and go to meetings; do you — at least SOME
OF THE TIME — come away filled with some greater level of strength, hope,
and/or understanding …?

If yes, well, that fucking rocks. Keep doing it.

If no, well … have you tried to find a group that works for you and
people who are willing to accept your beliefs. The 12-steps dig the
sponsor concept; do you have one? If you don’t, well … is there ANYBODY
in the meetings you go to, that has anything you want? If yes, then
FUCKING TALK TO THEM.

I don’t work the steps, per se, although much of what I do on a daily
basis, lights up and synchs with prolly at least half of the concepts the
12-steps are based upon — but, if they’re not working for you, have you
tried Rational Recovery (the not-for-profit version I b’lieve is called
SMART)? Randy would know much more about the specifics of this paradigm
than I do, ‘cuz he actually used it post-ibogaine.

The only thing I would add to whatever paradigm you’re using — you can
name it anything you want, you can call it Step 13, Step 1,
WhateverTheFuck, amounts to: JUST KEEP GETTING BACK UP … because
eventually you WILL stand. All you *must* do, is believe that it is
possible.

Success — at anything — just amounts to persistence, “Sorry, I’m very
hard-headed and I’m not listening to you explain my limitations to me.
I’m, just, gonna keep going. Because I’m too stupid to give up.”

Other than all of that, much of what people have to say about “addiction,”
is — at best — pseudoscience. “Once an addict, always an addict,” is
also a crock of shit. The brain reorganizes itself, it’s called
neuroplasticity. An extremely cool starting-point, is this thing here:

The Mind and the Brain: Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force.
Jeffrey M. Schwartz, M.D

This is a very easy to read book, and gives you a lot of references to
read sideways, if you want to gain some greater level of understanding.

Anywaze, this is getting long, and I could write another thousand
paragraphs on this topic; wait, no, nevermind, I already have.

| You are probably correct, I appoligize to all involved…it’s very
| frustrating to come to this list for some kind of support in the sense
| that everyone doesn’t say ‘whats that?’ when iboga is mentioned, but
| their apperars to be very little of that and what I wrote was out of
| that frustation and I’m definately no where close to be done yet in
| regard to ‘get through this’, that’s not an excuse though, I should have
| bit my tounge…

This list is whatever people choose to turn it into. I’m not the
babysitter. Everyone is free to say anything they like … however, that
also applies to me. When random, pseudoanonymous idiots, land here and
start dumping hate. I’m really not required to say, “That’s very special,
thank you.”

There actually IS another ibogaine list here; sacrament. It was created
for people who had done ibogaine and were trying to maintain.

But … nobody ever posts to it. I think maybe 75 people signed up, said
a few things, and went back to sleep.

*THIS* list has — as of last week — passed just over 5,000 people. The
same 75-100 have written 95% of the messages. The rest … I dunno why
they’re here. But this isn’t very unusual. We’ve been running online
conferences since long before www. and port 80 existed; before @ signs
existed; and … this is pretty much the dynamic … it doesn’t seem to
make a difference whether the subject is music, hacking, drugs, or
“recovery.”

I don’t have a lot of free time, I don’t write much to the list right now;
but there are always at least a handful of individuals here who have been
there, done that, maintained in a variety of ways; and consistently
provide advice that contains at least SOME useful elements.

Laters,

Patrick

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From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Smart recovery
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:38:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Self-Help Addiction Recovery – SMART Recovery 4-Point Program – Alternative to AA

A very worthwihile program. If there are no meetings in your area they have online meetings. I also reccomend picking up some literature from the suggested reading section.

~Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Watch high-quality video with fast playback at MSN Video. Free! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200365ave/direct/01/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] government has their own agenda.
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:37:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When the government doesn’t listen to the Pentagon Do you think it would listen to us?
This is not about Ibogaine but about hypocritical mentality of governments which is affecting us all everyday.
I must admit I have anger in me and the reason is hypocritical mentalities in all fields of life , politics research business relationships agriculture and religion.

So. This one of the scary proves to the hypocritical attitude of a government that victimize us.

Mark Townsend and Paul Harris in New York Sunday February 22, 2004 The Observer  Climate change over the next 20 years could result in a global catastrophe costing millions of lives in wars and natural disasters..  A secret report, suppressed by US defence chiefs and obtained by The Observer, warns that major European cities will be sunk beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a ‘Siberian’ climate by 2020. Nuclear conflict, mega-droughts, famine and widespread rioting will erupt across the world.  The document predicts that abrupt climate change could bring the planet to the edge of anarchy as countries develop a nuclear threat to defend and secure dwindling food, water and energy supplies. The threat to global stability vastly eclipses that of terrorism, say the few experts privy to its contents.  ’Disruption and conflict will be endemic features of life,’ concludes the Pentagon analysis. ‘Once again, warfare would define human life.’  The findings will prove humiliating to the Bush administration, which has repeatedly denied that climate change even exists. Experts said that they will also make unsettling reading for a President who has insisted national defence is a priority.  The report was commissioned by influential Pentagon defence adviser Andrew Marshall, who has held considerable sway on US military thinking over the past three decades. He was the man behind a sweeping recent review aimed at transforming the American military under Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.  Climate change ‘should be elevated beyond a scientific debate to a US national security concern’, say the authors, Peter Schwartz, CIA consultant and former head of planning at Royal Dutch/Shell Group, and Doug Randall of the California-based Global Business Network.  An imminent scenario of catastrophic climate change is ‘plausible and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately’, they conclude. As early as next year widespread flooding by a rise in sea levels will create major upheaval for millions.  Last week the Bush administration came under heavy fire from a large body of respected scientists who claimed that it cherry-picked science to suit its policy agenda and suppressed studies that it did not like. Jeremy Symons, a former whistleblower at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), said that suppression of the report for four months was a further example of the White House trying to bury the threat of climate change.  Senior climatologists, however, believe that their verdicts could prove the catalyst in forcing Bush to accept climate change as a real and happening phenomenon. They also hope it will convince the United States to sign up to global treaties to reduce the rate of climatic change.  A group of eminent UK scientists recently visited the White House to voice their fears over global warming, part of an intensifying drive to get the US to treat the issue seriously. Sources have told The Observer that American officials appeared extremely sensitive about the issue when faced with complaints that America’s public stance appeared increasingly out of touch.  One even alleged that the White House had written to complain about some of the comments attributed to Professor Sir David King, Tony Blair’s chief scientific adviser, after he branded the President’s position on the issue as indefensible.  Among those scientists present at the White House talks were Professor John Schellnhuber, former chief environmental adviser to the German government and head of the UK’s leading group of climate scientists at the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research. He said that the Pentagon’s internal fears should prove the ‘tipping point’ in persuading Bush to accept climatic change.  Sir John Houghton, former chief executive of the Meteorological Office – and the first senior figure to liken the threat of climate change to that of terrorism – said: ‘If the Pentagon is sending out that sort of message, then this is an important document indeed.’  Bob Watson, chief scientist for the World Bank and former chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, added that the Pentagon’s dire warnings could no longer be ignored.  ’Can Bush ignore the Pentagon? It’s going be hard to blow off this sort of document. Its hugely embarrassing. After all, Bush’s single highest priority is national defence. The Pentagon is no wacko, liberal group, generally speaking it is conservative. If climate change is a threat to national security and the economy, then he has to act. There are two groups the Bush Administration tend to listen to, the oil lobby and the Pentagon,’ added Watson.  ’You’ve got a President who says global warming is a hoax, and across the Potomac river you’ve got a Pentagon preparing for climate wars. It’s pretty scary when Bush starts to ignore his own government on this issue,’ said Rob Gueterbock of Greenpeace.  Already, according to Randall and Schwartz, the planet is carrying a higher population than it can sustain. By 2020 ‘catastrophic’ shortages of water and energy supply will become increasingly harder to overcome, plunging the planet into war. They warn that 8,200 years ago climatic conditions brought widespread crop failure, famine, disease and mass migration of populations that could soon be repeated.  Randall told The Observer that the potential ramifications of rapid climate change would create global chaos. ‘This is depressing stuff,’ he said. ‘It is a national security threat that is unique because there is no enemy to point your guns at and we have no control over the threat.’  Randall added that it was already possibly too late to prevent a disaster happening. ‘We don’t know exactly where we are in the process. It could start tomorrow and we would not know for another five years,’ he said.  ’The consequences for some nations of the climate change are unbelievable. It seems obvious that cutting the use of fossil fuels would be worthwhile.’  So dramatic are the report’s scenarios, Watson said, that they may prove vital in the US elections. Democratic frontrunner John Kerry is known to accept climate change as a real problem. Scientists disillusioned with Bush’s stance are threatening to make sure Kerry uses the Pentagon report in his campaign.  The fact that Marshall is behind its scathing findings will aid Kerry’s cause. Marshall, 82, is a Pentagon legend who heads a secretive think-tank dedicated to weighing risks to national security called the Office of Net Assessment. Dubbed ‘Yoda’ by Pentagon insiders who respect his vast experience, he is credited with being behind the Department of Defence’s push on ballistic-missile defence.  Symons, who left the EPA in protest at political interference, said that the suppression of the report was a further instance of the White House trying to bury evidence of climate change. ‘It is yet another example of why this government should stop burying its head in the sand on this issue.’  Symons said the Bush administration’s close links to high-powered energy and oil companies was vital in understanding why climate change was received sceptically in the Oval Office. ‘This administration is ignoring the evidence in order to placate a handful of large energy and oil companies,’ he added.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:34:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

right on.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Project

: ) very cool.
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 26 Feb 04, 1:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Project
A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during disaster so
that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and dosed so
as to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal
experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System for
Potential Disasters” project. Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for
reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing the
feasibility and planning phase. This phase, (Phase I) is intended to
explore the issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring
service continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or
manmade disasters. The project is examining various data systems that could
be used by programs to share just enough patient information that if, a
program closure occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment
program for medication. The project is focused on the New York,
Connecticut, and New Jersey region because of their experience with
disasters, as a result of September 11. Phase II would involve conducting a
regional pilot of a system based on recommendations made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and Human
Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently in
the process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year,
especially for new projects. I would like to assure you that the issues
addressed by this project are a major concern to SAMHSA. For instance,
SAMHSA requires treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as
part of “doing business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of us
at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next phase”
of your life.

H. Westley Clark, MD, JD, MPH
Director
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
US Department of Health and Human Services
5600 Fishers Lane
Rockwall II Bldg, Suite 615
Rockville, MD 20857
301.443.5700 (phone)
301.443-8751 (fax)

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:28:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lol! Probably is but I appreciate them taking the time to even answer. I really didn’t expect them to do that! They also said that “all of them at SAMHSA are very interested in our continued success in this next phase of our life”!! lol!
Callie

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] anecdotal evidence?
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:19:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If someone was willing to authorize and send to the FDA medical records (methadone clinic records), that suddenly stop after talking iboga/ine, would that still be considered only anecdotal evidence by them?
—– Original Message —–
From: deartheo@ziplip.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 25 Feb 04, 10:10 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] from DHHS and NPR e-mail address
(not much new here I’m afraid)

February 24, 2004
Mr. Jason Bursey
5827 Timbercrest Drive
Arlington, Texas 76017
Dear Mr. Bursey:
Your emails to Dr. Elias A. Zerhouni, Director of the National Institutes of Health, and
Mr. Claude A. Allen, Deputy Secretary of Health and Human Services, regarding ibogaine have
been sent to me for response.
In your emails, you ask a number of questions concerning the role of the Federal Government in
ibogaine research and scheduling. While anecdotal evidence of treatment successes (such as in
your case) and treatment failures with ibogaine have existed for years, the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) requires that a substantial amount of data be submitted concerning the
safety and efficacy of a product prior to approving it for use as a therapeutic agent. Anecdotal
evidence (positive, negative, or both) does not meet the regulatory requirements of the FDA
under which new treatment agents can be approved.
In 1991, based largely on the information provided by Mr. Howard Lotsof, Dr. Deborah Mash
and others, the Medications Development Division (now the Division of Treatment Research and
Development) of the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), created a medications
development project directed towards exploring the potential development of ibogaine. This
occurred at a time when Mr. Lotsof, who owned patents concerning the use of ibogaine as a drug
addiction treatment agent, and the law firm he hired could not find any commercial entity in the
United States (U.S.) willing to license and/or develop ibogaine. As part of this initiative, the
project team carried out research studies addressing various issues including the pharmacology
and toxicology of ibogaine as required by the FDA. Preclinical studies showed that ibogaine
possessed dose related neurotoxic effects in the rat, dog, and monkey including the ability to
cause seizures, neuron losses, and cardiovascular-QT prolongation which has been associated
with an increased risk of ventricular arrhythmia, which may result in fatal arrhythmias. It is
important to note that dose related toxicity alone does not necessarily rule out further
development of a medication. However, a safe dose level must be determined for human use.
This information is critical, as literature exists potentially linking ibogaine to deaths (including
during ceremonial use in Africa).
In 1995, prior to commencing a Phase I clinical trial of ibogaine in opiate dependent human
subjects, a review was held with a panel of outside expert consultants who were charged with
reviewing the available data to help determine whether NIDA should pursue a clinical study with
ibogaine. A number of persons and organizations interested in ibogaine participated in this
Page 2 – Mr. Jason Bursey
review meeting. Mr. Lotsof presented data on the number of subjects he had treated with
ibogaine and their outcomes. In addition to the toxicological findings, the data presented by
Mr. Lotsof (number of treatment successes versus treatment failures, time to relapse) did not
appear to offer increased efficacy over existing methods of opiate detoxification. The majority
opinion of the consultants was that NIDA should not pursue a clinical trial of ibogaine.
Subsequent to NIDAs decision not to directly perform clinical trials with ibogaine, Dr. Mash
and Mr. Lotsof entered a business agreement concerning the development of ibogaine and
received FDA approval to perform a Phase I study in the U.S. This study was never completed.
Dr. Mash has been administering treatment with ibogaine at the Healing Visions Institute for
Addiction Recovery on the island of St. Kitts.
Thus, although ibogaine is no longer part of NIDA’s directed medications development efforts,
we will continue to fund research projects on ibogaine through grants that receive meritorious
scores in peer review. NIDA continues to make all of the preclinical data it developed (currently
residing as a Drug Master File with the FDA) available to researchers interested in conducting
clinical studies with ibogaine.
Some of the lack of interest in ibogaine may stem from the fact that the drug lacks a composition
of matter patent. Compounds lacking such protection are usually given short shrift by the
pharmaceutical industry as their commercial value is very limited.
Regarding current U.S. scheduling of ibogaine, under U.S. law, psychoactive substances that
meet defined criteria and have no FDA approved medical uses must be placed in Schedule I.
Ibogaine is considered hallucinogenic and thus far has no FDA approved medical use. This does
not mean that medical research cannot be performed with ibogaine or other Schedule I
substances, but researchers are required to meet certain storage and record keeping requirement
standards that pertain to Schedule I substances. For more information on scheduling, please
contact the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration.
I hope that you find this information helpful.
Sincerely,
Nora D. Volkow, M.D.
Director
—————————————————————————————————————————

(Morning Edition, the program which is running this special regularly reads
letters on-air. Email to morning@npr.org) http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1688762for more info.

Dear Mr. Bursey,
Attached is the letter from Dr. Nora D. Volkow, Director of the National
Institute on Drug Abuse, responding to your emails to Dr. Elias Zerhouni and
Mr. Claude Allen regarding ibogaine. I also sent this letter to you via
mail.

Best regards,

Monglan (Lana) Le
Correspondence System Coordinator
NIDA Executive Secretariat
6001 Executive Blvd., Room 5101, MSC 9585
(301) 443-6618 phone
(301) 443-8756 fax
mle1@nida.nih.gov
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:47:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 01:58:21PM -0800], [Marc Scott Emery] wrote:

| Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being jerks
| on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like miscreants,
| I’d reprimand them.

Marc, Marc, Marc … whut can I do…? You give someone a Ph.D. and
before you know it they’re running wild in the streets causing problems.

It’s very sad, and a reflection on society as a whole.

| You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

This is true, we are barbarians.

That’s why I like spending time with Dana Beal. It’s like a breath of
fresh air; whoopsie, wait, no, wrong cliche. It’s like; well, it’s
different or sumthin’

Hey Dana! YOU TELL ‘EM!

Patrick

From: Marc Scott Emery <marc@cannabisculture.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Patrick, you hang with miscreants
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:58:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, Patrick, why don’t you reprimand your rude friends for being jerks
on this listserve. If any of my people were behaving like miscreants,
I’d reprimand them.

You hang with people who lack basic social graces.

Marc Emery
Iboga Therapy House

Patrick Kroupa said >>>>For what it’s worth, the person who responded to
Marc — yo dere Mr.
Schmooly! — is a friend of mine, who DOES know what he’s talking about,
regarding a variety of topics related to medicine, addiction, and
ibogaine.

Patrick

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 5:06:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

: ) very cool.
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: 26 Feb 04, 1:50 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during disaster so that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and dosed so as to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters” project. Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing the feasibility and planning phase. This phase, (Phase I) is intended to explore the issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring service continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or manmade disasters. The project is examining various data systems that could be used by programs to share just enough patient information that if, a program closure occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment program for medication. The project is focused on the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey region because of their experience with disasters, as a result of September 11. Phase II would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on recommendations made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and Human Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently in the process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year, especially for new projects. I would like to assure you that the issues addressed by this project are a major concern to SAMHSA. For instance, SAMHSA requires treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of us at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next phase” of your life.

From: “brad fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:59:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Looks like the response Callie received is a clone to the response I
received even though they came from two different individuals???????
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:37:15 EST
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Project

A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during
disaster so
that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and
dosed so as
to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal
experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System
for Potential
Disasters” project. Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing
the
feasibility and planning phase. This phase, (Phase I) is intended to
explore the
issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring service
continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or
manmade
disasters. The project is examining various data systems that could be
used by
programs to share just enough patient information that if, a program
closure
occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment program for
medication. The
project is focused on the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey region
because of their experience with disasters, as a result of September
11. Phase II
would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on
recommendations
made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and
Human
Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently
in the
process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year,
especially
for new projects. I would like to assure you that the issues addressed
by this
project are a major concern to SAMHSA. For instance, SAMHSA requires
treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing
business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of
us at
SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next
phase” of
your life.

From: “brad fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:56:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I too sent an e-mail to an address posted on this site.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: “Robert Lubran” <RLubran@samhsa.gov>
To: <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 12:27:54 -0500
Subject: Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters

Dear Mr. Fisher:

Dr. Clark, Director of the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment (CSAT),
which is part of the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration (SAMHSA), asked me to respond to your recent e-mail
concerning the “Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters”
project currently being funded by SAMHSA. [This is the same project you
referred to as the “Patient Dignity” project.] I am the Director of the
Division of Pharmacologic Therapies at CSAT. We very much appreciate
your taking the time to write and to share your personal experience
related to the need for a system such as this one.

Please let me give you a brief update about the project. At this point,
we are close to finishing the feasibility and planning phase, or Phase I.
Phase I examines various data systems that will allow opioid treatment
programs (OTPs) to share just enough patient information so that a
patient could go to another OTP for medication in the event that a
patient is unable to get to their home program. Phase I has focused on
the New York, Connecticut and New Jersey region because of their
experiences with the September 11, 2001, emergency.

Phase II would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on
recommendations made in Phase I. Congress just recently completed action
on our agency’s funding request for 2004. Therefore, we are still in the
process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year,
especially for new projects. Even so, I want to assure you that the
issues you raise are important to SAMHSA. For instance, SAMHSA requires
treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing
business” because we are very much aware how much it matters to patients
that they can rely on the treatment system. Also, SAMHSA and its Center
for Substance Abuse Treatment fund a number of other projects and
activities on behalf of persons being treated for opioid dependence.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of
us at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next
phase” of your life.

Sincerely,

Robert Lubran
Director, Division of Pharmacologic Therapies
Center for Substance Abuse Treatment
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Opiod Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters Project
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:37:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A while back Howard posted of the need for system to use during disaster so that patients in Methadone programs could be swiftly identified and dosed so as to avoid interruption in treatment and ensuing withdrawals.
I followed Howard’s advice and wrote my letter.
Just want to share the response it received.
It is the following.
Callie

Thank you for your e-mail to me and Mr. Curie, sharing your personal experiences relating to the need for the “Opioid Treatment Data System for Potential Disasters” project. Mr. Curie forwarded your email to me for reply.

To give you a brief update of the project, we are close to finishing the feasibility and planning phase. This phase, (Phase I) is intended to explore the issues and possible technological solutions related to ensuring service continuity for opioid treatment patients in the event of natural or manmade disasters. The project is examining various data systems that could be used by programs to share just enough patient information that if, a program closure occurred, a patient could go to another opioid treatment program for medication. The project is focused on the New York, Connecticut, and New Jersey region because of their experience with disasters, as a result of September 11. Phase II would involve conducting a regional pilot of a system based on recommendations made in Phase I.

Congress recently approved funding for the Department of Health and Human Services’ appropriation for fiscal year (FY) 2004 and we are currently in the process of finalizing decisions on our spending plans for this year, especially for new projects. I would like to assure you that the issues addressed by this project are a major concern to SAMHSA. For instance, SAMHSA requires treatment programs to develop adequate disaster plans as part of “doing business”.

I wish you well in your recovery and hope you will remember that all of us at SAMHSA are very interested in your continued success in this “next phase” of your life.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] re:props
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:27:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“hey:: patrik, steve, marc, jason, howard, preston, sara, brett, callie and ALL of you crazee kidz out there, all deserve to know that you rock and you are all loved…”

aaawwww! You touched my soul! Thanks!
Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI
Date: February 26, 2004 at 4:23:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett,

You are right.

Let say at least you are not the same kind of addict you used to be, your will has changed after taking the ibogaine,your vision of life has changed, would you go

back to shooting speedballs even if it felt great and you got it as a present, you will will not let you ,WHY?
Isn’t it that insight that you got that made you change ?
Wouldn’t that insight be a CURE? And you can get there easily in all those way ? Does methadone give you that kind of change?

” I feel all treatment modalities need to be explored and that the best hope for ibogaine is through research and letting the results speak. I have had friends, family and loved ones kick dope/drugs and other bad habits through methadone, rapid-detox, AA/NA, buprenorphine, nalaxtrene, just gritting their teeth and white-knuckling it and stopping, and through ibogaine.

I also wonder how long did the research took to find out that Methadone worked or the other stuff before it became a recognized treatment for addiction?
And what about the side effects coming off ,are they easily dealt with?

How long do we need to research Ibogaine ? there are other reasons not to have it legal in the U.S . and it is not because it doesn’t work, or not enough research.
Economically it is better to keep people addicted and consuming, to put them in prison or have them over dose on un controlled drugs mixed from the streets.

As long as the justice department can get more money in by having drugs illegal, it will stay that way.
We created the police to protect us, if you put your make up wrong on Monday morning you can get arrested as a suspect , drug dealer, terrorist, spy
Then you must prove that you are not, but then you may need to call a lawyer pay him money, to prove that it was only the wrong colour make-up and
Nothing more. But if it isn’t convincing enough because you are black and pink doesn’t match black people that is what the police thinks , so they can bit you up until turn
Blue. That match better with pink , then you may go home or kick dope in there , at the police station.

Everyone is guilty until proven not guilty, before it was other way around.

Everyone is an addict until proven not an addict.

Van: Brett Calabrese [mailto:bcalabrese@yahoo.com]  Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2004 18:56 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI

Iboga/ibogaine does not take away choice (free will), it won’t cure one of (non-drug-induced) stupidity Ibogaine does make that choice far easier, it may cure or nearly so drug cravings as well as the physical addiction, but addicts with nothing better to do go out and use anyway, no cravings and all. I believe ibogaine can clear the slate, heal if not cure much of the damage drug addiction has done, remove the the ingrained patterns. It comes down to how come people use after ibogaine if they are not cured, cause nothing can cure one >from themselves (cept a bullet…) Ibogaine may cure people of some particular demons but I think the issue of addiction is too complex to have one definition of “cured” for a treatment. Can someone be over it, sure, absolutely (99+%). Addiction is a process that starts with like any other disease, a suseptable person and expure to sufficient quantity of the substance to cause a disease (dis-ease, a state of not being at ease). I guess ibo! gaine sort of reverses much of that, an addiction reverser perhaps, it also removes much of the whatever initially interested people to drugs. Can someone be “cured” by using ibogaine AND doing everything else, to the extent that they will never be active “addicts” again, YES. It is like ibogaine removes something so people can cure (if you want to use that word) themselves but ibogaine isn’t going to cure me of me against my will. I think when people use the word “cure”, that is what they expect, to be “cured” that it will never happen again – not if you repeat the thoughts and behavior it won’t.

So, here is my opinion why ibogaine is NOT a cure.

People who have successfully been treated with addiction CANNOT safely do the following;

GET HIGH LIKE NORMAL PEOPLE CAN.

For myself

I can’t and wouldn’t do a few “lines”, have a few drinks or smoke a few cigs. A non-addict, non-smoker could and they even if they enjoyed it, it won’t go anywhere.I likely could have a glass of wine or beer and one day may very well do that, but “drinking”, nope. Patrick, as “cured” as he is, it would be a real bad idea if he shot a few bags of dope…
Even though I doubt it is likely Patrick, myself or many successfully treated ibonaughts will (likely) go anywhere very far, we just can’t safely fuck around with drugs, or at least certain drugs (drugs of choice). I have to believe for my own safety that I am different than other folks. On the PLUS side I think I am less likely than the general population (3%) actually get “addicted” to pain meds. Perhaps we can immunize the entire population of the planet with iboga.

Maybe we need to establish something like they use for cancer, 3 or 5 year survival (relapse) rates to put a measurement on whatever someone means by the word “cured”.

It certainly is something different than what people normally call addiction, active or not.

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—– Van: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]  Verzonden: donderdag 26 februari 2004 4:42 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: RE: [ibogaine] Protest CBS Madison & 53rd 11:30 AM Thurs; Fax CBS: NO AIRPLAY WI   ”Virtually all physiological systems are affected in opiate addiction. A reproducible syndrome occurs when an opiate addict goes through withdrawal. This syndrome includes yawning, lacrimation, piloerection, perspiration, mydriasis, tremor, gooseflesh, restlessness, myalgia, anorexia, nausea, vomiting, abdominal cramps, diarrhea, fever, hyperpnea, and hypertension. When prolonged, the syndrome includes weight loss and, even after acute withdrawal, symptoms subside, persistent symptoms such as sleep disturbances, irritability, restlessness, and poor concentration which can b! e present for months or years. Both acute and chronic tolerance are physiological phenomena subserved by the central nervous system. However, both acute and chronic tolerance may also be influenced by environmental variables, such as setting, conditioning, and learning.”   If Iboga Isn’t “a cure” how come most of those symptops ,sometimes all, do not show ?  Also, how come the need to smoke tobbaco left the person? He could smoke, He didn’t come for treating his smoking habit, het ried one ciggaret and didn’t feel that need anymore.   How come my patient Liz. Went working after the treatment 16 hours a day , standing up.she wouldn’t be able to if not for this treatment, she did try Other treatments before and that is what she thinks.  Is Methadone a Cure? Some people would say it is .  S.      /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%](> Further Information & List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com <)[%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Iboga

Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine &food intake & potential hazard
Date: February 26, 2004 at 2:51:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Feb 25, 2004 at 07:03:08PM -0800], [nruhtra@dsskcorp.com] wrote:

| and who would you suggest DOES know about such things? i mean are you
| implying that a specific *cough*mash*/cough* person(s) does?
|
| n
|
| (btw/ps – i know how people can COMPLETELY blow typed word out of
| proportion on this list, so before someone generly ASSUMES something, i AM
| NOT saying that mash DOESNT have knowledge about said topics. thanks.)
|
| > I have spoken to many doctors and it is clear that Marc E knows nothing ,
| > I
| > mean absolutly nothing about medicine, drug interactions, pharmacokinetics
| > or
| > how Ibo works at all. He may be a saint but a little knowledge can kill.

Actually there are ’bout 25 M.D.s and Ph.D.s whom I know on this list —
and probably another 100 I don’t; since many of the subscribers are not
hiding behind Hotmail, Hushmail, Yahoo, WhateverTheFuck accounts, and have
signed up using their real email.

In the past there are a variety of instances where a specific medical
question was asked … and they gave answers. It’s in the archives; this
list has roughly 10,000 messages so far … the problem is that nobody
really understands the command line tools for accessing any of this; and
yeah, fuck it, we’ll wrap a web-interface around it, to make searching for
messages much simpler.

But anyway; what happens is 100% consistent. Somebody asks a question, a
person who ACTUALLY KNOWS THE ANSWER gives it. And then, a buncha idiots
pop up and start arguing with them.

This leads to a very simple pattern … “Well, ya know. I’m an M.D. or
Ph.D. I’ve spent years of my life studying this. I get published in
peer-reviewed journals. Someone asks a question, I give the answer, and
… what happens when I do that?” What happens is people who DO NOT know
what they’re talking about, begin arguing with them.

Which leads right to, “Well, ya know what. Fuck this. Why waste my
time?”

And, there is no answer to that. Why keep trying to help people or answer
questions, when the only response to that action is abuse?

For what it’s worth, the person who responded to Marc — yo dere Mr.
Schmooly! — is a friend of mine, who DOES know what he’s talking about,
regarding a variety of topics related to medicine, addiction, and
ibogaine.

Patrick

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] please cancel my subscription
Date: February 26, 2004 at 3:14:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please stop all e-mails to me ….

thank you very much

From: Nandkbj@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] please cancel my subscription
Date: February 26, 2004 at 3:14:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please stop all e-mails to me ….

thank you very much

From: <deartheo@ziplip.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show
Date: February 26, 2004 at 2:55:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@phantom.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004, 11:43 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] bucks4 you Deborah and Patrick show