Ibogaine List Archives - 2005-03

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance Randy
Date: March 31, 2005 at 11:01:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks, i can pull the con, just can’t lose my career and gig. i am the only one that can take care of me. no place to live but my house, no one to give me money, zero-lose it at 55 and i’m on the streets. wishing you continued success and thanks to all for responses. i’m surprised
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance

Ron, I told you months ago that I paid for my Ibogaine. I lied, I didn’t. I didn’t think it was any of your business who paid for my treatment. My step father paid for it. He’s not rich, he just loves my mother more than life itself. At the time, him and I didn’t get along very well, matter of fact after what he has experienced in his life I don’t think there was anything about mine that he respected. After watching me go thru the Ibogaine experience he found something to respect. This from a man who flew through the Pluesti raid 100 feet off the ground in a B 24 watching his friends burst into flames and hit the ground. My relationship with this man may just be one of the best things that has happened after Ibogaine. I finally found my father. I’m telling you this at the risk of sarcasm from you, but I don’t care, I want you to feel as free as I do right now. I didn’t know how I was going to pay for the Ibogaine, I just knew that I had to do it, so I put all my effort into finding a way. I would have done anything short of selling my grand fathers sax to get it. A way found me. He didn’t even like me at the time (my call) but somehow he knew it would change my life, not to mention it would shut my mother up for a while, (LOL). Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is, try and think positive, and con every mother fucker you can until you get what you need to do the Ibogaine. It sure helped me. Worry about the con later. You’ll deal with it in the trip. Randy PS maybe one of these days I’ll quit crying when I talk about my step father.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 10:53:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

working a taper for several months. got job problems that keep me from doing extended stays or i’d p/u and go.
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance

Ron ,ditto for me too.(all 4 ) when I made up my mind to do ibogaine all the pieces fell into place.One time I had a bed set up in a traditional detox (ouch) & they gave my bed away that am,I made one call & bam!That time I was being frugal & wanted to not spend a coupla grand.I have borrowed money to do it as well.Hows your credit?Why not start decreasing your benzo habit real slow your self for now ? Sometimes the littlest action can get the motion started.Not trying to sound condescending Ron, ,just wish you the best-shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Ron, I told you months ago that I paid for my Ibogaine. I lied, I didn’t. I didn’t think it was any of your business who paid for my treatment. My step father paid for it. He’s not rich, he just loves my mother more than life itself. At the time, him and I didn’t get along very well, matter of fact after what he has experienced in his life I don’t think there was anything about mine that he respected. After watching me go thru the Ibogaine experience he found something to respect. This from a man who flew through the Pluesti raid 100 feet off the ground in a B 24 watching his friends burst into flames and hit the ground. My relationship with this man may just be one of the best things that has happened after Ibogaine. I finally found my father. I’m telling you this at the risk of sarcasm from you, but I don’t care, I want you to feel as free as I do right now. I didn’t know how I was going to pay for the Ibogaine, I just knew that I had to do it, so I put all my effort into finding a way. I would have done anything short of selling my grand fathers sax to get it. A way found me. He didn’t even like me at the time (my call) but somehow he knew it would change my life, not to mention it would shut my mother up for a while, (LOL). Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is, try and think positive, and con every mother fucker you can until you get what you need to do the Ibogaine. It sure helped me. Worry about the con later. You’ll deal with it in the trip. Randy PS maybe one of these days I’ll quit crying when I talk about my step father.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Funds for Ibo-sandy
Date: March 31, 2005 at 10:49:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m down, no doubt. i’d be fool to be positive in my conditon. benefit yes, i’ve sought it, 1000 sounds like a giveaway with prices that have been quoted to me
how do you walk away from a gig you’ve had for 20 yrs for 2-3 weeks? no offense taken on my demeanor…many factors effect it that i do not share on list.
wishing you continued success and a peaceful path, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Funds for Ibo

Hey Ron… I heartily agree with Jasen’s words to you. As far as paying for ibo, I can tell you my first trip was priced at around $1000 and that was certainly a lot more than I had laying around anywhere. I remember telling a friend that if someone told me that I was going to hand over a grand to basically a total stranger, in a strange place, and let them give me a substance that hardly anyone in the world had ever heard of – I couldn’t believe how ridiculous that sounded!

I guess I’m saying that if you just allow it into your head that YES you are drawn to ibogaine, and you are definitely going to do it at some point, even if you don’t know exactly when – well, it’s going to happen for sure. And for me, I just made up my mind that I would borrow the money somewhere, and just making up my mind like that seemed to cause the money to show up without it being such a stretch. Plus, once you’re thru the first experience, you can more easily work with it again at a greatly reduced stretch.

C’mon and give it a try. I know you can get the dough together, and if I ever met someone I think could really benefit from Iboga – it’s definitely you! Not to offend, but you just seem “blanketed” in such incredible negativity and hopelessness, and ibo will rip that away at least for a bit. It did for me…

Best and luck to you, Sandy
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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 10:42:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:43:15 EST, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
<BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote: PS > maybe one of these days I’ll
quit crying when I talk about my step father.

Thank you for sharing this Randy, all of it, not just the crying bit,
although that in particular is opening my heart in a much needed way
this a.m.

So you have more than a few angels in your life, eh? You deserve ’em
bro. Now I’m crying. Much love, rach

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 9:38:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 4:43:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 31, 2005 at 4:03:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mamma, thanx for finding the page for me. I filled it out and sent it. Randy

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 31, 2005 at 2:06:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know if any one has smoked it, but it is edible. It isn’t
common because without the HCl (freebase is pure) it isn’t very
stable. After a year in sealed plastic, 25 mg/kg had the effect of
2 mg/kg of HCl.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:27:43 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/30/05 8:40:40 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

ALso ‘freebase’ is missing from the forms of ibogaine.

So who has freebased ibogaine. At what doses and with what
effects?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Funds for Ibo
Date: March 31, 2005 at 2:02:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 10:27:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/30/05 8:40:40 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

ALso ‘freebase’ is missing from the forms of ibogaine.

So who has freebased ibogaine. At what doses and with what effects?

Thanks

Howard

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A MAN.to j from ron OT
Date: March 30, 2005 at 9:56:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the personal note. be cool bro, don’t lose it, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A MAN.

Hello Ron,

Mate,…I feel the first step is to stop thinking of yourself as a whiner
and slow. If you played the piano a few times in your life that does
not make you a pianist.

As you know, what you think and what comes from your mouth is
very very powerful.
I assume you are in the US, if you are, then it will not cost you 10
grand as there are people there that can help for much much less
than that.

The problem is you would still have to come up with a few thousand.
What I did was to go to banks and applied for a loan until I got one.

I understand this does not help much however this is what I did, had
I not recieved the loan I could not have done this yet.

love you bro’
Jasen.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaineto jason ) (OT) from ron
Date: March 30, 2005 at 9:53:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the thought, wishing you continued success, it’s sneaky, make you do stuff you don’t want to (the addiction , dependancy, compulsion or whatever the hell it is i have) hope your bug wasn’t as bad as mine… i dangle by that thread, getting highs’s not an option cause the don’t make enough of the stuff, can’t stay straight withrx meds, but i try. unfortunately(whine.. for the self rightuous locked solid in sobriety) no kidding, thanks for the kind thought. hey, most of us or at least this dinosaur shared periodically. never hear that concept expressed on the list. i suspect many of us have valuable skills to barter with among ourselves and some have money and some have mucho dinero. i’ll defer to the scholars on spiritual growth. my understanding is that there must be a common path, a common goal and a group of people following it for enlightenment. but i whine on…..to no good end..i’ll have to do it the old fashion way. seems there’s several distinct tribes on the list, close knit, wary of strangers with different agendas. many having done ibo but still doing other drugs,some sober, some ibo chic and a few good ones. myself, i have contributed nothing
so i must fit in somewhere. i’d hate to move back to the village just to really be part of this. i hope those seeking or who have already achieved sobriety find it or hang onto it. it was the most precious thing i ever lost. my best efforts got me access to a computer and this list, hope i can make the next leap and still keep the computer. i can pawn my micro wave, 19 in. tv and 8 track, that’s a decent down payment isn’t it? thanks to the good folks i’ve met here and those who have read my rants and whines. perhaps i’ll get it right next time i sign on for the list. peace to all and your solid sobriety.ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Hey Ron

You were most definatley invited. I for one would miss hearing from you if you chose to punch out.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

i feel like the list is a party and i wasn’t invited. perhaps i didn’t fly high and far enough or destiny has something more sinister than ibo dreams to take me away. i can stay in this rarified air or punch out. maybe if i whine enough some benefactor will throw me an ibo bone.. wishing all continued success and peace in their lives. ron—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A MAN.
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:53:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Ron,

Mate,…I feel the first step is to stop thinking of yourself as a whiner
and slow. If you played the piano a few times in your life that does
not make you a pianist.

The problem is you would still have to come up with a few thousand.
What I did was to go to banks and applied for a loan until I got one.

I understand this does not help much however this is what I did, had
I not recieved the loan I could not have done this yet.

love you bro’
Jasen.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:51:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok, done. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity and privilage of sharing somewhat of my feelings, even if they’re a bit vague really I suppose. Not sure I’d want at this point to be more informative than I was, at this moment in time, but I do hope it helps at least a little bit, my filling out your form Marco

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Jeff Gallop” <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

Preston my LES friend…
The questionnaire would certainly take less time to fill out that
those two replies took. It is 17 ?’s besides the optional personal
info ones (5 or so which I skipped) answered by checking boxes not
writing replies (which with your talent and thought process i know
would take some time).
So Freak Free knowing that the Ibo angels have blessed you and this
would be a great chance to give some Ibo love back to the
world.Something we very rarely get the opportunity to do.
hope to see you and V sooner than later…maybe Sunday April 10th for
afro celtic music of Baka who are from the Cameron near Gabon and
certainly reflect some Ibo vibe big time…More on this later this
week.
Glad you are keeping busy
with Ibo Angel Love to you and all on the list
Jeff (back at work and lovin’ it!)

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING
lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to
do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with
deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d
be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at
this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what
list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than
happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t
find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m
sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be
happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about
this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really
thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about
right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at
the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill
it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of
course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or
two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.
>
> On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any > form
> to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/
>
> 2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.
>
> I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did > your
> part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. > You
> had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
> you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
> questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.
>
> That’s how it looks.
>
> But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have > our
> IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
> want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
> need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that > “every
> vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???
>
> http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct > link
> to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out and > sending
> it….
>
> Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
> supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* > why
> they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”
>
> Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
> you…
>
> Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
> discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
> questionnaire instead.
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:40:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congratulations to Marko for gathering this info, and thanks for
the experiences.

In one question:

“Who was taking care of you during the experience:”

the choice ‘no one’ is missing. Not to advocate this option, but
that’s how I do low doses.

ALso ‘freebase’ is missing from the forms of ibogaine.

‘experience include’ – might be worth adding an option for
‘recovery’ of traumatic memories (including apparent memories later
considered to be symbolic).

I put in a few entries, I suggest that people use a pseudonym if
they don’t want to give a name, so that multiple experiences can be
correlated.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 7:35:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YEr right Jeff, I hadn’t actually seen how short it was when answering- I was more surprised by Marco’s apparent anger- plus, I’m not even sure I’d seen his first request, so was even more surprised. I allowed myself once again to fire off a reply I wish I coulda bit back in and not sent in the first place, but I did send it and I apologize Marco- I’ll fill in your questionaire for you very soon.
Thanks for shaking me gently Jeff.
;-))
Glad to hear from you and in such a positive mood, with such positive light veritably shining from your email.

Peace and love,
Preston

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 7:24:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

financial affairs are pvt., but we discuss histories of law breaking on the list, glamorize heroin(yea, i enjoyed pulling water out of a toilet tank to get off in the day), brag about the amount of meth we took…that’s good credentials…i’m a whiner and slow, tell me, how do you get the bread in the the middle of battle to go do ibo? children of rich parents need not respond…just old fashioned druggies that are tired and manged to pull it together w/o robbing the savings and loan. not trying to pry, if it’s an elite club where people can fly thousands of miles and drop 10 grand, that’s cool, i lose. but if someone has some insight into this, please let me know cuz i’m slow and close to poor. miss a paycheck and i’m on the curb. ron, wishing all the best.thanking viable responses in advance. i’ve had several inquiries off list about this.
—– Original Message —– From: “Jeff Gallop” <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 5:50:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did your
part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. You
had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.

That’s how it looks.

But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have our
IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that “every
vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 4:42:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Leo Zeff, The Secret Chief, ibogaine
Date: March 30, 2005 at 3:25:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In reviewing some history of the west coast ibogaine scene in the US I turned
to Myron Stolaroff’s book, The Secret Chief, a dialog with and about Leo
Zeff, a wonderful person and experienced ibogaine therapist. First let me present
two urls from MAPS.

I think this is a wonderful gift to this list and one that I can pass to you
from Leo Zeff and his gift to all of us.

Howard

http://www.maps.org/pubs/bookflier.pdf
scroll down till you come to The Secret Chief.

An e-version of the book is available from,
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/sctoc.html

Among the statements Zeff makez concerning ibogaine:
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/scchpt1.html

There’s another incident, too, an experience in my home that I had that was a
very important one. I’ve had migraines all my life. The earliest memory I
have of myself is lying on the front porch of my house at home while they’re
paving the street and the tar was there as they were paving the street and bricks
as they used in those days and the tar smell was making my head ache so bad.
That’s the earliest experience I had. About three, maybe four years old. The
headaches were extremely severe and painful. Pretty bad constantly.

One day I was tripping in a group trip. I was having an ibogaine trip. Do you
know ibogaine? It’s a fantastic medicine, really. I think I mentioned that we
use the word medicine rather than drugs.

You get the answers to all your questions on this trip, on the ibogaine trip.
Everything is clearly stated, any questions you have. You go into the trip
with questions if you want to. You ask the question but you don’t try to answer
it. The answer comes to you. This time I decided to ask Mr. Ibogaine – we call
him, the person from whom you get the answer, Mr. Ibogaine. Anyway, my
question was, what is this with these headaches that I have, that I suffer from?
That’s all. I was really turned on and deep in a trip and the question occurred
to me. Okay, ask it. “What is it with these headaches?”

The answer came. I’ve had a number of ibogaine trips and the answer always
comes. You may not recognize it for what it is, it may be very ambiguous or
somewhat like that, but you’ve got the answer for sure, you’d better hang onto it.
The answer came back and said, “You’re going to die.” I looked, and I said,
“What?” That’s what it said. I know it said it. I looked around it, and it said
I’m going to die.

You don’t get frightened with an experience like that. You just take
whatever’s handed to you and look at it, handle it. So I looked at it, and I looked at
it and I said, “Jesus Christ, what does that mean, I’m going to die? Well it
means you’re going to die, that’s all it means.” Die when? Of course I knew
I’m going to die some day. I know that, that’s nothing new. This isn’t the kind
of “You’re going to die” that Mr. Ibogaine was saying.

I said, “Well, gee, this is something between me and Mr. Ibogaine. It is not
something that I can tell anybody about.” On the report of my trip – we all
gathered the next morning and told what happened on our trip – on the report of
my trip, I could not say anything to them about Mr. Ibogaine’s saying I’m
going to die, since that would scare the hell out of everybody. They wouldn’t know
how to take it.

I didn’t know how to take it. I never did know. I kept reflecting on it for
quite some time. And it was about a month later. The only relief I could ever
get for migraine was codeine. And I took one helluva lot of codeine. I was
certainly habituated, but not addicted because there were times I wanted to quit
taking it, and I decided I was going to quit. I did quit; I quit for weeks, and
I could do it! Without too much trouble. And my migraines would be easier on
me even then. But then I’d get back on it again. I was taking as many as four
to eight half- grain tablets of codeine every day, so that I could function
without the pain.

A month after this trip I took another trip. I don’t remember what the
material was. It wasn’t ibogaine. I was with somebody, I can’t remember who it was,
I don’t even remember if it was a man or a woman. I took something, I think it
was acid, and had my trip. As I was coming down from the trip, as most of the
people liked to do and as I always wanted to do, I walked down to the water.
I walked along the water, which was a very important place for me. That’s
where I had my greatest conversations with God. That was really a very important
thing to me. I remember walking along, talking to God, and coming back up to
the house. As I was coming up the hill something flashed in my mind, something
that was a result of the space I was in from the trip. What flashed in my mind
was a phrase.

I know that when lots of times you take an ibogaine trip you get something
that’s enigmatic, you don’t know what it is, and later on you’ll get something
that fills it in. Completes the sentence is really what it does. It turns out
that “You’re going to die,” was part of a sentence. The second part of the
sentence flashed into my mind. “Unless you stop taking codeine.”

I rolled that one around and rolled it around and rolled it around and looked
at it. God-damn! How can I function, unless I take codeine? I just played
around with it a lot. Maybe I haven’t got the right message, or something like
that. Then I said, “No, Jacob, don’t fuck around with this stuff. You know the
answer. You take it. You got the right message. Take it, just as you got it.
I’m going to die unless I stop taking codeine. Okay, I got the message. That’s
the truth, I know that’s the truth. So, what am I going to do about it? Am I
going to quit taking codeine? It doesn’t bother me to die. I’m going to die some
day. But – I’m not ready yet. I don’t want to, right now. Am I going to quit
taking codeine?”

And it flashed in my mind the answer, this statement. “Jacob, that’s the
wrong question. The question is not ‘Are you going to quit taking codeine?’ The
question is, ‘Have you quit taking codeine?'” The same thing that happened with
the cigarettes.

And I knew the answer. Right then and there I knew the answer. I had quit. I
had quit. For a long, long time. My migraines got less and less. Occasionally
they would get real strong, I would take some for a little while. But it was
over with. I was over taking it as I used to. Well as you can imagine, that was
a very spectacular thing in my life.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$
Date: March 30, 2005 at 12:22:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

point of clarification: providers risk their asses in the us. they work and perform a good service. i did not mean to suggest they are not honorable, dedicated people who wish to share this ibo experience that eludes me. i pay everyone who works for me, docs, plumbers, mechanics..i do not expect a free ride, apologize if it came across that way and certainly think facilitating a life changing event is worth something. all providers i have spoken to have been compassionate and have a passion for their work. there’s no free lunch…my opinions are just that and change with the tides b/c my head’s not screwed on straight. all the more reason for ibo , maybe. to all on the list doing this for others, no malice intended nor was i denigrating you for charging. hell, i don’t work for free., ron, hoping to someday make it, regardless of the cost.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 12:04:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko, I tried to go the link you sent and had no luck finding it. Again. I’m not very computer savvy so I’ve got someone trying to help me find the page so I can fill it out. I have time today if I can find where to go. I have been almost non stop for the last month and today I have time to relax. Finally Randy

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: donna!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 10:53:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m trying but i can’t rest on ibo, no money, no source, but you’re right. the way i live is not fun nor has it been for years.
all under the watchful eyes of docs. i found a very compassionate one but he is 1000 miles from where i live. hard to see him regularly when trying to hold a job and caring for a terminally ill parent. but we all have problems and i am quite sure others on this list have it much worse. i wish i could get to him right now, he’s one of the most knowledgable i’ve ever met. addiction docs in my town throw you into detox hell and will not listen to or even consider treament plans outside what their manuals say. and boy do they charge you. one guy hit me for 300 us for 15 minutes just to tell me he wouldn’t help me. shame they can’t be like the guy who practices so far away. love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths

In a message dated 30/03/2005 13:01:42 GMT Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid. i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route , otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it. the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result. of course, hip is tolerance. ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message

I think Ron maybe its time to stop watching others (I mean me and you) make the decision and just do it. I think that what we both need to do.

Take care love donnaxxxxxxxxx

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 10:43:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee:
Point well made. I am not a scientist and lack the objectivity in some areas outside my profession. i was sober for a long time before i let myself get rx’d into a box. i approached my sobriety from the 12 step programs, viewing my problems as stemming from the disease of addiction. I faithfully followed the steps and was told that everything would eventually be ok if i stayed on that spiritual path. my guide was a pathologist who was very gifted. i blindly followed the path on his faith and everything worked out ok. some very wonderful things happened to me that i can contribute to what i was doing. i was also able to share this with others like me and the same thing happened to them, which my sponsor told me it would. i can’t get back on that path and view this ibo thing as a vehicle to jump start me to that or a similar path. i only express my opinions and observations on what i saw happen. hardly a scientific study..i should have qualified my remarks. thanks for the well thought response. i hope and pray i can get back on a path as it is a journey. my worth on earth is only the sum of my good deeds to others. may we both find the peace and harmony that eludes me. i’m in a fix that i may or may not get out of alive. i hope everyone makes it who wants it. -addiction or dependancy or whatever the heck it is is a life threatening thing. it has caused me and my family and countless others i know so much misery and pain. i’d rather die than live much longer in this hell i’ve gotten myself into. IMHO there is nothing romantic, hip, cool in addiction..for me, it’s a killer…i can’t count the number of people on 2 hands that i knew that died as a direct result of it or are spending the rest of their lives in prison. i’m wery and tired and hang by a thread. love to all, ron, this is all my opinion which means very little.—-
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths

Hi Ron,

I just wanted to respond to what you said about the spiritual path being an empirical route which I find to be a very ascute and spiritual observation.

The problem I have with the academic view of recovery is this. It is purely scientific (it seems to me) and does not understand the interaction of the spiritual with the physical.

As an example:

I am now about to deal with an issue which happened to me when i was very young and because of which I have suffered from particular fears which have affected the way I lived my life and related to others.

If I had gone to a shrink with this problem, he could not imo have healed it as an isolated issue as it is interconnected to other issues which spiritually have to be healed first in order to fulfill properly one’s path. BTW I only became aware of the problem through eboga – it was completely blanked. So I would not have known the reasons had I gone in the first place to a shrink for my problem.

I have prior to now deeply healed my sexuality among other things. Why was it that my sexuality was healed before this issue I am referring to come into full focus for healing? The answer of course is that there is an spiritual order to healing and the order determines the way in which your ego makes life choices prior to the healing of the issue.

If this issue had been healed before my sexuality I might have found life sufficiently tolerable as to not have sought the healing in the first place of other issues or I may not have been desperate enough to change homes and start a new life. i.e. the isses determine the life actions our ego mind takes and the order of the resolving of the issues plays a very important role in our development and growing awareness. Hence, the spirit is in a way manipulating the ego.

All of this of course indicates a path and so the healing of issues are linked to the point we are on the path and where we have to go.

None of which comes into scientific healing to the best of my knowledge.

Hence, while there may also be a psychological order to healing. It also happens that the spiritual order is in sync with this in my experience. Two different realities which operate differently, are reflecting one another perfectly, allowing one viewpoint to be ignorant of the other. Two realities which appear unrelated and which allows the atheist to reaffirm their world view as and when they wish to do so, as they do not need to look to the spiritual to construct their arguments.

The spiritual realm is very clever and leaves its discovery to those brave enough to have some faith to begin with and a lot of humility to end with imo. It does not yield itself to pure atheist scientific enquiry as that would be to give spiritual understanding to those who were not spiritual in their intention.

As you say:

i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route , otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it. the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.

With love,

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid. i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route , otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it. the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result. of course, hip is tolerance. ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!

Peter,

You state:
‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.
As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I read that as a soul issue psycho/spirituality. You read it as a psychological one.

IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a psychological issue (complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone. It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided to distance yourself from.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

Thats all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying the interpretation others use for what works for them?

Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with a drugs for all paradise?

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition. After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>RE: dissing a Substance!!
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
>
>
> Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
>complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
>life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
>wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
>crossing the street
>
>
> It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
>the
>ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
>for
>whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
>his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
>want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
> Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
>is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
>as I
>said often before.
>
>
> I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
>voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
>
>
> Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
>ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
>found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
>is
>sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
>it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
>but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
>and
>if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
>will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
>think
>you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
>we
>think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
>
>
> But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
>at
>all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
>are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
>ones, but that is a whole other story.
> pc
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
>so
>I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
>”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
>feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
>where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
>one
>is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
>cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
>individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
>is
>coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
>therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
>helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
>cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
>this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
>stop.
>There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
>bit
>of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
>the
>person to stop if they no longer want to use.
>
> Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
>Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
>works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
>psychological than neurochemical.
> Thank you for an interesting discussion
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
>have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
>aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
>that
>they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
>propose ibogaine should be promoted?
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>–
>————————————————-
> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> University of Amsterdam
>
> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>
> mail address: postbox 94208
> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>
> email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> fax +31-20-525 4317
>
> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> languages)
>

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:29:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think Ron maybe its time to stop watching others (I mean me and you) make the decision and just do it. I think that what we both need to do.

Take care love donnaxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:27:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron

Start your own party!! or better still join in with the others, how are you???? did you tell me last time we spoke you were going to see the doctor???? I hope you are well.
love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:24:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen

The wise one you are always right, hope you are ok and had a great easter I am in the garden its pouring with rain doing an easter egg hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 7:00:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron,

I just wanted to respond to what you said about the spiritual path being an empirical route which I find to be a very ascute and spiritual observation.

The problem I have with the academic view of recovery is this. It is purely scientific (it seems to me) and does not understand the interaction of the spiritual with the physical.

As an example:

All of this of course indicates a path and so the healing of issues are linked to the point we are on the path and where we have to go.

None of which comes into scientific healing to the best of my knowledge.

As you say:

With love,

Lee

Peter,

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:26:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron

You were most definatley invited. I for one would miss hearing from you if you chose to punch out.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:16:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: February ‘Addiction’ and related matters.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:13:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:59 PM
Subject: February ‘Addiction’ and related matters.

# Drug related deaths in New Mexico
# Causes of death in Texas methadone patients over a decade
# ‘HIV prevention’ without mention of needle services!
# Survey of (non-fatal) overdoses among treatment entrants.
# Advertising and schools prevention programs both ‘work’ on teenage drinking.
# ‘Addiction’ editorial policies questioned again.

Dear Colleagues,

As we have come to expect, this edition of Addiction has a wealth of informative articles, this month’s theme (or one of them) being injecting behaviour and its worst consequences, overdose and viral disease transmission.

We are given an insight into 5 years of overdose figures from America’s worst state for drug overdoses (150 per million annually, double the national average). New Mexico saw a tripling of methadone prescription during the 5 years yet at the same time, methadone related deaths decreased from 23 to 15 per million per year. We are told that the crude amount of methadone dispensed in the state increased from 5kg to 14kg and from 23g to 53g per registered patient annually (63mg to 145mg per day). I was not clear if this included prescriptions for pain management. The authors quote a similar finding from New York in which just over 10% of drug related deaths involved methadone (Bryant et al.). Other studies from the UK and Perth, WA showed reduced death rates with increasing methadone prescription.

And this ‘message’ may be contrasted with another current report from nearby Texas [D&A Dependence 78 (2005) 73-81]. Maxwell and colleagues looked at causes of death in current methadone maintenance patients during a 9 year period, finding differences between an older group with chronic diseases and others who were more likely to die from acute events such as overdose or road trauma. Of the 766, 20% died from liver disease, 18% from cardiovascular disease, 14% from overdose. At death, patients had been on methadone for a mean period of 43 months (mean age 46 years) with an average dose of 77mg daily with 4 take-home doses weekly. These authors make a call for on-site primary care facilities for dependency patients.

February Addiction has an item and supporting editorial on overdoses and their relation to other reported life events such as relationship problems, housing difficulties and bereavements in patients entering treatment or prison. The researchers report some modest and non-surprising statistical associations of sorry social circumstances and non-fatal overdose. Yet despite a lack of causation, there are calls from both the authors and editorialist on all community agencies to be alert to this problem in an effort to recognise it and act accordingly. What exactly do they expect social programs to do for drug users which they do not do already? Relationship guidance counselling may have a distant benefit but nothing reduces overdoses like good dependency treatment and other harm reduction manoeuvres.

The accompanying editorial by Zador is confusingly titled: “Reducing non-fatal overdoses among heroin users as an all-of-society challenge”. The research is from entrants to treatment so obviously none reported a fatal overdose. Yet one might assume that measures aimed at overdose would be expected to address fatal as well as non-fatal events. Dr Zador is a world expert on opiate overdose, yet she fails to mention the place of other more focussed and cost effective approaches. France and Switzerland reduced overdoses dramatically in the 1990s using approaches which were then in some ways ‘novel’ (pharmacy buprenorphine, injecting rooms, heroin trials, high quality methadone treatment). Could it be that some of these are less politically comfortable? We would all support her calls for better housing, social programs, grief counselling, marital services, etc. However, preventing overdose is just one small (unproven) reason for such programs, dwarfed by alcohol, domestic violence and other issues, as well as just plain humanity which needs no controlled studies.

I have already commented on the lack of general harm reduction measures in Sullivan’s item ‘Decreasing international HIV transmission: the role of expanding access to opioid agonist therapies for injection drug users’ (copy on request)

In a high-rating editorial page Griffith Edwards (whose December retirement announcement seems to have been premature) writes a flowery appeal for ‘commissioned editorials’ on alcohol policies around the world. He explains how important and informative these pieces will be for readers, even though most remain unwritten. This request for submissions would seem to indicate that these are NOT in fact ‘commissioned’ in the usual sense.

Sally Casswell has written a perceptive commentary on Ellickson et al ‘Does alcohol advertising promote adolescent drinking? Results from a longitudinal assessment’ (note a typo of 2004, for 2005 on the citation). The study from South Dakota looked at teen-age drinking habits related to exposure to advertising on TV, supermarkets, etc, finding correlations which could be reversed with a schools education program. Casswell makes the point that all such advertising should cease in the interests of public health, something which will may be very difficult to make happen in America. It has already happened in certain jurisdictions, to their continuing benefit.

For their own reasons, the journal management choose to place this piece as a letter to the editor even though it is commenting on a research report in the same edition. Polite requests from me on this editorial practice were greeted with a lecture from his office on their (unique it would seem) concept of the ‘letters’ pages. Other journal editors I have spoken to have no doubt that letters to the editor should be confined to unsolicited readers’ correspondence.

Addiction’s paucity of genuine correspondence seems at odds with the ‘robust debate’ Professor Edwards claims to espouse. Other expert commentary, while welcome, should always be cited as such. And normal practice would have the original article captioned as having a commentary, editorial or critique elsewhere in the journal. I would be interested in any other views on this issue from readers.

Shah N, Lathrop SL, Landen MG. Unintentional methadone-related overdose death in New Mexico (USA) and implications for surveillance, 1998-2002. Addiction (2005) 100; 2: 176-188

Maxwell JC, Pullum TW, Tannertc K. Deaths of clients in methadone treatment in Texas: 1994-2002. Drug and Alcohol Dependence 78 (2005) 73-81

Sullivan LE, Metzger DS, Fudala PJ, Fiellin DA. Decreasing international HIV transmission: the role of expanding access to opioid agonist therapies for injection drug users. Addiction (2005) 100;2:150-158

Neale J, Robertson M. Recent life problems and non-fatal overdose among heroin users entering treatment. Addiction (2005) 100; 2: 168-175

Ellickson P, Collins RL, Hambarsoomians K, McCaffrey DF. Does alcohol advertising promote adolescent drinking? Results from a longitudinal assessment. Addiction (2005) 100; 2:235-246

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:06:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,
Hope this finds you Good. My bad for not listening
good and filling in the blanks with assumptions.
Hey do you have a Good Sponsor?? I’m not here to
make light of the reality of your situation, if it
came across that way I’m really sorry about that.

Maybe it’s corney, but know you aren’t alone in
this. Feel free to e-mail me off list if you want.

A white Candle is lit in Dallas for you right Now.

Cheers,
jb

“a farmer doesn’t plow the soil by turning it over in
his mind”
http://ibogain.de
hopen, hoop hebben op, hoop, verwachting
espérance, espoir, espérer
Hoffnung
hoffen
ελπίδα,
προσδοκία
ελπίζω,
ευελπιστώ,
προσδοκώ
sperare, speranza
querer e esperar
надеяться,
уповать,
ожидать,
предвкушать,
надежда,
тот, на
кого
возлагают
надежды,
то, что
надеются
получить,
упование
esperanza, posibilidad
esperar, tener esperanzas, confiar
esperar, tener esperanzas, confiar
förhoppning, förtröstan
hoppas
希望, 期待, 信心
希望, 期待
希望, 盼望
希望, 期待, 信心
希望, 期待
希望, 盼望
希望, 望み,
見込み, 期待,
期待されるもの,
頼りになるもの
望む‏(الاسم)
أمل, رجاء
(فعل) يأمل,
يرجو‏
‮תקווה,
ציפייה,
מצב
מעורר
תקוות‬
‮ייחל,
קיווה‬

__________________________________________________
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 8:08:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Margo,

Why not get information from the all of it, you will then have a clearer decision, a choice as to what rings true.

with love Jasen.

>Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it?

>And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is

>that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone

>who might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you

>know it they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with.

>Seek help from a professional not a bunch of addicts.

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:34:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi. This exact “method” was suggested to me by a “Doctor” (so it must be good, right?) I knew in a 12 step room. Anyway, enough sarcasm, but he did have a good idea to me that’s similar to this endorphin stuff. When I was really craving opiates he told me to ask my own doc to try low doses of naltrexone, (like 4 mgs) to stimulate production of endorphins. He said to take it at night so as to not really experience the drop, and hopefully the next day or days it would increase my mood and lessen my craving. Of course I asked my very conventional MD to try this and he said that that sounded like just so much “unknown experimentation.” I gave up and relapsed. Not blaming my relapse on him, mind you, but how much effort on his part would it’ve taken to let me try it?
I don’t know if there’s any sort of availability of naltrexone on the “black market,” but if there is, it would seem to work the same as those whuppins, and circumvent the violence?
Best, Sandy

>From: <slowone@hush.ai>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:00:11 -0800

>”Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

>I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the

>endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a

>temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts

>him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the

>pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical

>pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into

>painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers

>more easily.

>Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment

>could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

>On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

> >Hi Preston,

> >

> >Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent

> >for

> >democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

> >

> >http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

> >

> >Howard

> >

> >In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

> >

> >>you’ve got to be kidding, right?

> >>

> >>I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

> >raises

> >>dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but

> >somehow I’m

> >>just not quite buying this one either.

> >>

> >>”Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”

> >LOL, errrr,

> >>I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

> >Manhattan,

> >>and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in

> >some “let’s

> >>beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

> >

> > /]=————————————————————–

> >——-=[\

> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

> > \]=————————————————————–

> >——-=[/

>Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get

>secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

>Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger

>http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

>Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:

>http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

> /]=———————————————————————=[\

> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

> \]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:15:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/28/2005 7:39:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, gary@bluemooncapital.com writes:
ARE YOU IN JAX

What is JAX?

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine storage
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:09:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/29/2005 2:03:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
Hi
What is the best way to store ibogaine. What is the aprox shelf life after delivery>?
Warmest Regards

Matt
air tight and out of the light.

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:02:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Glad to know you are doing the right thing, and Sandy is right not all doctors know what the hell they are doing. I have found the doctors that specializes in addiction are better at getting people off SSRI then other doctors. As for my comment about a bunch of drug addicts, I say that because I am a drug addict and I know how we think and what we do and in most cases we do try and do thing on our own without the help of people who are better qualified.

From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 6:22:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanx Sandy for the show of support.

As for your comment Margo: I am trying to get off the Effexor because it isn’t work very well & makes me uncomfortable in a number of ways including wiping out my memory and my ability to have an orgasm. As an intellectual, I need my brain on-line, and as a human woman, I reaalllly need my clit on-line, so, you know, I am kinda motivated to get off the meds.

I *am* working closely with my psychiatrist, and she is trying to help. When I wrote the query to this fragrant and loving pile of ex junkies here, I was seeking help for something the doc wasn’t able to help with: she simply called it “discontinuation syndrome” and basically said it would pass. She hoped. Maybe. Soon? This was my second attempt to get off the efxr, and I was very very ill. I figured that these folks on the list might have some insight into how to deal with withdrawal.

Anyway, as an update, I have been taking a small dose of prozac along with the efxr, then I went cold turkey on the efxr, had about four days of intense (but less intense than the first time) discontinuation syndrome symptoms, and now I am starting to feel better (and hallelujah, the southern regions have finally come out of their efxr winter!!) .

I have been taking vitamins & supplements to support the brain juice while I transition. Eating spinach and peanuts and lecithin and eggs (for the yolk) to help with one set of neurotransmitters. Adding a little 5-htp to help with another set.

so….thanks again for your sage advice and support, listees!
xo
Kiersten

On Mar 29, 2005, at 3:03 PM, booker w wrote:

Why want off the effexor – gee, just to see if you can live without it, perhaps. I don’t think all SSRI’s are meant for a lifetime. I have a terrible hassle getting off zoloft. Tried twice now. My doc is no help at all. Talking to others attempting and succeeding at what I want to do, always seems the best route.

From one of this “bunch.” Sandy

>From: MargoK2004@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:14 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 3/28/2005 9:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
>
>kiers10@mac.com
>
>
>Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it?
>And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is
>that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone
>who  might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you
>know it  they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with.
>Seek help  from a professional not a bunch of addicts.
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/
Psychic Divas
firebright@mac.com
510 508 9597
510 932 3048

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 6:03:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Margo – This is pretty offensive to me, I must say. I have found (over YEARS and YEARS) that docs are often the least effective when it comes to info regarding drugs. They throw you on whatever works and whatever keeps you quiet and happy. “The bunch of addicts here” could teach a mountain of info to your beloved docs.
Why want off the effexor – gee, just to see if you can live without it, perhaps. I don’t think all SSRI’s are meant for a lifetime. I have a terrible hassle getting off zoloft. Tried twice now. My doc is no help at all. Talking to others attempting and succeeding at what I want to do, always seems the best route.
From one of this “bunch.” Sandy

>From: MargoK2004@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.

>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:14 EST

>In a message dated 3/28/2005 9:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:

>kiers10@mac.com

>Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it?

>And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is

>that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone

>who might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you

>know it they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with.

>Seek help from a professional not a bunch of addicts.

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine storage
Date: March 29, 2005 at 2:02:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
What is the best way to store ibogaine. What is the aprox shelf life after delivery>?
Warmest Regards

Matt

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 1:06:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] ot Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 1:05:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 29/03/2005 03:12:32 GMT Standard Time, morning_wood263@yahoo.com writes:
I’ve been to 6 different clinics and the staff
varies greatly. Someone recently said listen to
doctors not drug addicts…well why not listen to both
with a grain of salt, do research then come to
resonable conclusions.

I totally agree, listen to whoever is willing to help you, In my experience, personally I relate better to an ex addict than a doctor because I know they have been throgh withdrawals and beaten their addiction! but that might just be me I say take advice wherever you can get it
love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:54:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry, marko………i missed ur 1st post.
marcus

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:12:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning………..! smells like …………. recovery. Randy <

Oh goodness, LOL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

Hey All, I agree that pain does release endorphins ,but i think youd start do develop tolerance,then what!-shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
This is so wide open for ridicule I don’t know where to start. Sure I guess I’d be happy that the whipping stopped and have a new lease on life for a little while, but what happens after these people get home? I know what I’d do. Bang. Twice for good measure. Then I’d be lookin’ for the sadistic son of a bitch that took a cane to my ass. Well, I guess if it truly was a person of the opposite sex I might make an exception, esp. if she wears one of those maid outfits or was covered in rubber or something. LOL I never could figure out what was so stimulating about whippin’ people or being whipped. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world. You know whoever came up with this was a huge fan of that De Sade dude. I’d like to look in that fuckers closet. WHOA nice whip. Just where in the hell did you get those boots? Do you really wear that mask? I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning………..! smells like …………. recovery. Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:11:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.<

LOL, Marko, you’ve got to be kidding right? You don’t have time to waste egaging in discussion, but you want us to all rush to fill in your questionnaire?
Again, I’ll be happy to help out, when I too have a bit of time to “waste” (which I don’t consider filling in your questionnaire to be, only not something I yet have time for).

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

That’s how it looks.

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:09:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

That’s how it looks.

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:14:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

That’s how it looks.

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:28:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 29 March 2005 09:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and
suicide crises

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the
endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a
temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts
him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the
pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical
pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into
painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers
more easily.

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

Sounds like it would appeal to Christians. I don’t believe this guy’s name
is Speransky, though.

Nick

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=————————————————————–

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] morning wood (ot)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:58:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry to whine on the forum. every med i take is lawfully rx’d. i had prelaw stuff that’s public record. i’m glad for you and everyone who has had the good fortune to have the experience. as stated, i am jealous as it’s not an option for me right now, but i feel i could benefit. i truly hope you and others with your experience tucked away continue to live a sober life, living comfortably without having to take any mood or mind altering drugs. as for my profession, i don’t know how you came up with me being a lawyer. must have been some miscommunication on my part at an earlier date.. i work with indigent people and have dedicated my life to helping those less fortunate than me. the road can be bumpy, but i appreciate success when i see it, including yours and others on this list. kind thoughts, ron

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:05:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

meetings, tapering, no sleep… just the traditional stuff. i live in the bible belt, doc’s are afraid of their shadows and there is no ibo underground. who’s waiting? it ain’t me, not the way i feel. but i whine on so i’ll quit here. thanks for the words of encouragement. hoping you stay on your peaceful path, ron

—– Original Message —– From: “Morning Wood” <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Ron,

Are you still talking to as many people as you can
to see if an unseen opportunity exists? Ibo is
pricey, but if you look good, there might be ways
around that. Although that would mean less time to
whine about stuff.
If you can’t afford a treatment, find some people
who can afford it. The ‘underground’ would probably
find that worth the time I would assume.
If you really want change stop waiting for something
or someone. Create some opportunities, you’re a
lawyer, trust me your sevices are in need.

Keep your head up Bro.
jb

— Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Ibo seems pricey, flying 1000’s of miles is pricey,
pc’s are pricey, geeze, can’t just steal a lawnmower
and score ibo. new breed of affluent junkies. we
could get brokers to manage our portfolios and
personal assistants to coordinate our time off.
it’s times like this, i wish i were keith richards.
not a put down, just a casual observation from a
55yr. old shell.
one day , maybe i’ll get sober again. hope it’s
soon cuz i haven’t had fun in a zillion years.
peaceful path to all, i’ve lost quite a few along
this trek and they’re still falling. i’m not a
‘naut, just trying to tough it out the old way.
maybe my lottery ticket will land and i’ll take a
busload to sara’s or that island spa. if i make it,
it will be from the help of others. ron, or what’s
left of him. peace to all, i revel in your
enthusiasm and am quite jealous.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

——————————————————————————–

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 9:50:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey All, I agree that pain does release endorphins ,but i think youd start do develop tolerance,then what!-shell

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 6:02:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is so wide open for ridicule I don’t know where to start. Sure I guess I’d be happy that the whipping stopped and have a new lease on life for a little while, but what happens after these people get home? I know what I’d do. Bang. Twice for good measure. Then I’d be lookin’ for the sadistic son of a bitch that took a cane to my ass. Well, I guess if it truly was a person of the opposite sex I might make an exception, esp. if she wears one of those maid outfits or was covered in rubber or something. LOL I never could figure out what was so stimulating about whippin’ people or being whipped. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world. You know whoever came up with this was a huge fan of that De Sade dude. I’d like to look in that fuckers closet. WHOA nice whip. Just where in the hell did you get those boots? Do you really wear that mask? I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning……….. smells like …………. recovery. Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] on melatonin…
Date: March 29, 2005 at 5:43:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After informing a friend and contributor to the new book about how badly wiped out mentally and physically I’d felt after that short jaunt to LA last week (I mena it, I was an emotional wreck, not to mention physical- I thought I was having a breakdown the first day or two back here in NYC- it was VERY weird), he wrote back with the following tidbit, which made me laugh, considering I know someone on this list who swears up and down that I should be eating bottles of the stuff…(not reeeeaaly bottles of it, just a lot of it for everything from returning my dreams- which is NOT a problem I’ve EVER had- I dream up a storm every single time I sleep and remember a lot of them- to helping me sleep- another problem I haven’t much problem with yet still get this stuff recommended). Anyway, here’s my friend’s comment:

Watch out for that melatonin herbal stuff that’s supposed to help you with sleep problems and snap you out of jet lag. I just had a bad experience with it. I’m pretty sure it’s what gave me a few days of some severe near-fainting and near-nausea episodes. Maybe it’s the Natural Miracle a lot of people say it is, but approach it with caution. Scary couple of days, my first and last bottle of melatonin now in trash can.<

LOL, so as I told him, I’ve tried it, it didn’t do anything to OR for me, so I don’t bother taking it. I’m sure it “works” for some and doesn’t for others, but I did think it funny that one of my more crazy-like friends loves the stuff, and one of my lesser crazy but still pretty nuts doesn’t.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 5:38:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I think I’m with you on this one Sara.
I agree that beating someone repeatedly probably does release a lot of funky chemicals, but laughing is just ever so much more FUN gosh darn it. I think I’d MUCH prefer a laugher clinic to a “beating the heck outta me” clinic.
But I’m surprised I ever have to write that, and that there might actually be others out there who might diagree- leaves my head shaking in wonderment.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:13 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

Laughing a lot will do the same, and is humane.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: dinsdag 29 maart 2005 10:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide
crises

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=————————————————————–

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 4:13:47 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Laughing a lot will do the same, and is humane.

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=————————————————————–

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 3:00:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=————————————————————–

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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=————————————————————–

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 29, 2005 at 2:49:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 29 March 2005 00:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

nick man, you touch a number of interesting points for discussion here
i have to check my online osho zen tarot now…

hey, i got celebration. i just paste in what it says:

Life is a moment to celebrate, to enjoy. Make it fun, a celebration,
and then you will enter the temple. The temple is not for the
long-faced, it has never been for them. Look at life–do you see
sadness anywhere? Have you ever seen a tree depressed? Have you seen a
bird anxiety-ridden? Have you seen an animal neurotic? No, life is not
like that, not at all. Only man has gone wrong somewhere, and he has
gone wrong somewhere because he thinks himself to be very wise, very
clever. Your cleverness is your disease. Don’t be too wise. Always
remember to stop; don’t go to the extreme. A little foolishness and a
little wisdom is good, and the right combination makes you a buddha.

very good, i´ll consider that.

take care
ekki

Well, you start listening to that old fool Osho, God knows what’ll happen to
you! He didn’t even write those cards, you know.

Nick

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 1:19:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ah yes, very true Howard, you’re right on that one.
But shhh, we wouldn’t want to give anyone any ideas, right?

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!” LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:39:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

Keep your head up Bro.
jb

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:25:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use. The technology would seem to be a deterrent for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:07:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibo seems pricey, flying 1000’s of miles is pricey, pc’s are pricey, geeze, can’t just steal a lawnmower and score ibo. new breed of affluent junkies. we could get brokers to manage our portfolios and personal assistants to coordinate our time off. it’s times like this, i wish i were keith richards. not a put down, just a casual observation from a 55yr. old shell.
one day , maybe i’ll get sober again. hope it’s soon cuz i haven’t had fun in a zillion years. peaceful path to all, i’ve lost quite a few along this trek and they’re still falling. i’m not a ‘naut, just trying to tough it out the old way. maybe my lottery ticket will land and i’ll take a busload to sara’s or that island spa. if i make it, it will be from the help of others. ron, or what’s left of him. peace to all, i revel in your enthusiasm and am quite jealous.

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] ot Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 9:03:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hiya,

That’s a great example of that stigma.

So I’m doing some spring cleaning and ran across
some old methadone medical records. Re-reading it, I
had allot of the same feeling I get when reading about
whipping therapy. Not with the methadone itself, but
like Jon said before, the way it is administered.

Basically they thought I looked fucked up, so they
refused my take homes and wanted to call the ER. I
had arrest warrents, unless you have lots of money,
good luck getting prescribed methadone in Jail, so
when she picks up the phone to call 911 I click the
base of the phone to hang it up while the reciever was
in their hand (I didn’t touch them or the phone in
their hand, I’m not violent, their was not discussion
just irrational action by them), they wrote this down
in my medical records as me physically taking the
phone out of their hand, pushing them away, then hang
it up.

This makes for great reading, too bad it didn’t
happen like that. And I’m not just relying on my own
account of the events either. Anyways, they dropped
my dose and stripped my take home privilages and only
let me leave the clinic if I had a family member agree
to take me to the ER (even though I said repeatedly I
had no nead to go). They said my position would
remain the same untill I could prove I wasn’t fucked
up on drugs. (All of my clinic UA’s were clean) So
when I came back with a UA that I had to pay for that
showed nothing but cannabis in my system, they wrote,
in my medical records ‘psychological collapse’. But
refer to no odd behavior prior other them my reaction
to them. I mean come on, I was on my way to work.
You know that job thingy that I wasn’t able to get to
that day because of all the powertrip non-sense.

I’ve been to 6 different clinics and the staff
varies greatly. Someone recently said listen to
doctors not drug addicts…well why not listen to both
with a grain of salt, do research then come to
resonable conclusions.

I listened only to the staff when I was on Orlaam
and ran out of money and believed them when they said
their wasn’t another way. If I had looked into it
more at the time, I would have found the free and
sliding scale clinics that I eventually did find.
Instead I spent the next 4 months in indescribable
pain, worst I’ve ever experienced by far. Terrible
waste of time and energy.
Some of the most good hearted people I’ve ever had
the chance to meet are/were staff at a clinic. Some
of the worst too though. Too many staff Power trips.
I see that sometimes in other drug treatments too 😉

I feel it should be equal. For example, I dislike
the term ‘subject’, I think ‘patient’ is better.

Some therapist I’ve gone to can’t stand being on
equal level with patient, gives them some distance and
feeling of control I guess. They seem more like a
friend for hire then anything really constructive,
that’s just me.

Meeting 30 new people would do more to improve
someones life then traditional therapy, and it’s way
cheeper.

-jb

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?
I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long
periods of time raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and
all, but somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.
“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy
with pain!” LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done
free here in Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be
cheaper than in some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies”
establishments.-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to
Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures
depression and suicide crises

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide
crises
03/26/2005 13:06

The effect is astounding: a patient starts seeing
only bright colors in
the
surrounding world

Russian scientists from the city of Novosibirsk,
Siberia, made a
sensational
report at the international conference devoted to
new methods of treatment
and
rehabilitation in narcology. The report was called
“Methods of painful
impact
to treat addictive behavior.”

Siberian scientists believe that addiction to
alcohol and narcotics, as
well
as depression, suicidal thoughts and psychosomatic
diseases occur when an
individual loses his or her interest in life. The
absence of the will to
live is
caused with decreasing production of endorphins –
the substance, which is
known
as the hormone of happiness. If a depressed
individual receives a physical
punishment, whipping that is, it will stir up
endorphin receptors,
activate the
“production of happiness” and eventually remove
depressive feelings.

Russian scientists recommend the following course
of the whipping therapy:
30
sessions of 60 whips on the buttocks in every
procedure. A group of drug
addicts volunteered to test the new method of
treatment: the results can
be
described as good and excellent.

Doctor of Biological Sciences, Sergei Speransky,
is a very well known
figure
in Novosibirsk. The doctor became one of the
authors of the shocking
whipping
therapy. The professor used the self-flagellation
method to cure his own
depression; he also recovered from two heart
attacks with the help of
physical
tortures too.

“The whipping therapy becomes much more efficient
when a patients receives
the punishment from a person of the opposite sex.
The effect is
astounding: the
patient starts seeing only bright colors in the
surrounding world, the
heartache disappears, although it will take a
certain time for the
buttocks to heal,
of course,” Sergei Speransky told the Izvestia
newspaper.

The whipping therapy has not become a new
discovery in the history of
medicine. Tibetan monks widely used it for medical
purposes too. Soviet
specialists
used a special method of torturing therapy at
mental hospitals. They made
injections of brimstone and peach oil mixture to
inspire mentally
unbalanced
patience with a will to live. A patient would
suffer from horrible pain in
the body
after such an injection, but he or she would
change their attitude to life
for
the better afterwards.

“People might probably think of me as a
masochist,” Dr. Speransky said.
“But
I can assure you that I am not a classic masochist
at all,” he added.

The revolutionary method may take the Russian
healthcare to a whole new
level. The method is cheap and highly efficient,
as its authors assure.
Why not
using something more efficient, a rack, for
example?

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[%]

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 28, 2005 at 8:47:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid. i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route , otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it. the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result. of course, hip is tolerance. ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!

Peter,

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] meth means methamphetamine
Date: March 28, 2005 at 8:33:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m really wanting to find information on the treatment of methamphetamine
dependency with ibogaine. My dope fiend friends really need something,
anything, that will take the edge off the craving for that shot. I’ve read
that ibogaine is less effective for speed freaks than for opiate users,
but even a smaller degree of help will help a gang of them. Does anyone
know anywhere I can find info?

howard put the presentation i gave at the conference last month up on the
ibogaine dossier, you might be interested to read through it… i
summarise experiences of a few treatment providers who’ve treated people
for meth problems…

http://www.ibogaine.org/cosm.ppt

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 8:27:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you’ve got to be kidding, right?
I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time raises dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but somehow I’m just not quite buying this one either.
“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!” LOL, errrr, I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in Manhattan, and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in some “let’s beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
03/26/2005 13:06

The effect is astounding: a patient starts seeing only bright colors in the
surrounding world

Russian scientists from the city of Novosibirsk, Siberia, made a sensational
report at the international conference devoted to new methods of treatment and
rehabilitation in narcology. The report was called “Methods of painful impact
to treat addictive behavior.”

Siberian scientists believe that addiction to alcohol and narcotics, as well
as depression, suicidal thoughts and psychosomatic diseases occur when an
individual loses his or her interest in life. The absence of the will to live is
caused with decreasing production of endorphins – the substance, which is known
as the hormone of happiness. If a depressed individual receives a physical
punishment, whipping that is, it will stir up endorphin receptors, activate the
“production of happiness” and eventually remove depressive feelings.

Russian scientists recommend the following course of the whipping therapy: 30
sessions of 60 whips on the buttocks in every procedure. A group of drug
addicts volunteered to test the new method of treatment: the results can be
described as good and excellent.

Doctor of Biological Sciences, Sergei Speransky, is a very well known figure
in Novosibirsk. The doctor became one of the authors of the shocking whipping
therapy. The professor used the self-flagellation method to cure his own
depression; he also recovered from two heart attacks with the help of physical
tortures too.

“The whipping therapy becomes much more efficient when a patients receives
the punishment from a person of the opposite sex. The effect is astounding: the
patient starts seeing only bright colors in the surrounding world, the
heartache disappears, although it will take a certain time for the buttocks to heal,
of course,” Sergei Speransky told the Izvestia newspaper.

The whipping therapy has not become a new discovery in the history of
medicine. Tibetan monks widely used it for medical purposes too. Soviet specialists
used a special method of torturing therapy at mental hospitals. They made
injections of brimstone and peach oil mixture to inspire mentally unbalanced
patience with a will to live. A patient would suffer from horrible pain in the body
after such an injection, but he or she would change their attitude to life for
the better afterwards.

“People might probably think of me as a masochist,” Dr. Speransky said. “But
I can assure you that I am not a classic masochist at all,” he added.

The revolutionary method may take the Russian healthcare to a whole new
level. The method is cheap and highly efficient, as its authors assure. Why not
using something more efficient, a rack, for example?

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:42:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A little foolishness and a
little wisdom is good, and the right combination makes you a buddha.<

Hey, this reminded me of something- I just had to write my own bio for the new book project, and this is what I came up with , hopefully combining just the right amount of foolishness and a little wisdom too. Enjoy all.
;-))
(This ain’t exactly on topic, but that’s beginning to be a habit for me- sorry all, I do apologize, but I’m trying to keep in touch but at the moment am so slammed this past week with so many projects I’ve piled on myself, and other issues to deal with too, I’ve just not had a lot to say here as of late. Anyway, here’s the bio, just to share. I had fun, and wrote a 14 page introduction from scratch in the last 2 and a half days, as well as a table of contents, edited a whole bunch of submissions, edited some photo stuff of the coolest looking megalithic architecture and other ancient architectural and navigational and diffussional puzzlers, been to LA and back, did some dj’ing Saturday, and, well, am low on meds too- wow, I live an interesting sort of life, as the Chinese warn one another about- I wonder if there’s an easier way? LOL!)
How are you doin’ Nick? Not bored or anything are you? Getting out there? Living a little? I love you bro. Keep on keepin’ on.
;-))

Preston Peet is an accomplished author, actor, dj, musician, psychonaut and explorer. Editor of “Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History,” and “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs,” the website DrugWar.com, a long-time contributor to High Times magazine and author of over 100 articles and stories published in too many publications to list here, not even debilitating chronic pain has kept Preston from visiting those places where others seldom tread. From climbing Ben Nevis, the highest mountain in Scotland, to ingesting shamanic doses of psychedelics and exploring the inner (and outer) realms of extremely altered consciousness, from smoking pot and hashish on the top of the tallest cathedral in Europe, to exploring ancient North American Indian ruins in New Mexico and Colorado, Preston goes where he needs to seek out answers to the questions he wants answered. Born Tracy Rich, in Ft. Meyers, Florida on September 11, 1966, he eventually picked the name Preston at age three and was eventually adopted by the Peet family at age five. Preston has lived in the swankiest digs to the muddiest streets of cities around the world, including Sarasota, Orlando, Tampa, and Tallahassee, all in Florida; Atlanta, Georgia; Paris, France; Las Navas del Marqés, Spain; Bergen, Norway; Rotterdam and Amsterdam, Nederlands; and London, England. Once arriving in NYC, Preston went from kicking cold turkey while squatting on the SUNY Purchase campus, to living strung out in Central Park and on the streets of LES, and now, with his life somewhat together, shares a small apartment in Manhattan with his beautiful vegan muse, soul-mate and lover Vanessa Cleary, and, at the moment, nine rescued cats. Preston is always on the lookout for ever more knowledge, and helping bring peace and adventure back in vogue.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

nick man, you touch a number of interesting points for discussion here
i have to check my online osho zen tarot now…

hey, i got celebration. i just paste in what it says:

very good, i´ll consider that.

take care
ekki

Am 28.03.2005 um 19:42 schrieb Nick Sandberg:
Hey Ekki,

Well, that’s another discussion, and a pretty fucking heavy one in my
experience! If you really want to rip apart the Reformation and the rise of
the belief in the individual then that can be quite an inner Vietnam of a
trip – Is existence actually happening to anyone? Self-enquiry. It’s a
strong medicine, maybe stronger even than iboga, and spirituality is much
lighter and much more to most people’s taste these days. But when I learned
Tarot and the Tree of Life I learned that the most direct route to the
centre is through Key 15 – The Devil.

Determinism is not about a few variations – it’s that what happens in the
future is created totally through pre-existing circumstances – personality,
dna, society, culture, environment, astrology, whatever. Variations not
relevant. Here I’m just being pedantic, but I don’t see Peter preaching
anything other than pure determinism, and if you do that I don’t see how you
can have the bias level he has. That’s what I asked him about.

anyway
peter´s main concern is, as far as i read it, that today´s system to
deal with drug users is based on something similar to superstition and
causes unnecessary suffering. i totally agree with peter in this
respect.
in my opinion both the law and most treatment is bullshit.

I think the treatment systems are OK in principle, but that the
predisposition of most governments, esp the US gov, is to subtlely make sure
heroin addiction stays. They don’t want to back real treatment, they just
fuck around a little and then pay a fortune to some PR guys to make it look
good before election time. They actively want heroin.

I also don’t agree with making addicts social scapegoats.

peace
ekki

PS – BTW, I don’t buy that atheism, idealism or determinism are
conflicting,
but can’t bring myself to think about this stuff so much.

nick, no, but you bring up terms like this, humanism is another label
you introduced.
and i wonder: why you are so concerned with peter´s motivation?
what are yours in this discussion? uh, and what are mine?
-ekki

Yeah, good question! Conscious motivation and unconscious. I guess I like to
say I want to find the latter so I follow where I’m interested, where my
attention goes. I could say I CARE, but I think that’s a bit of a cop-out.
About Peter’s motivation, well, I think this guy has a hidden agenda and
that stuff worries me a bit. Sure it’ll become clearer in time.

Respect

Nick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:31:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com