Ibogaine List Archives – 2005-03

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance Randy
Date: March 31, 2005 at 11:01:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks, i can pull the con, just can’t lose my career and gig.  i am the only one that can take care of me.  no place to live but my house, no one to give me money, zero-lose it at 55 and i’m on the streets. wishing you continued success and thanks to all for responses. i’m surprised
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance

Ron, I told you months ago that I paid for my Ibogaine. I lied, I didn’t. I didn’t think it was any of your business who paid for my treatment. My step father paid for it. He’s not rich, he just loves my mother more than life itself. At the time, him and I didn’t get along very well, matter of fact after what he has experienced in his life I don’t think there was anything about mine that he respected. After watching me go thru the Ibogaine experience he found something to respect. This from a man who flew through the Pluesti raid 100 feet off the ground in a B 24 watching his friends burst into flames and hit the ground. My relationship with this man may just be one of the best things that has happened after Ibogaine. I finally found my father. I’m telling you this at the risk of sarcasm from you, but I don’t care, I want you to feel as free as I do right now. I didn’t know how I was going to pay for the Ibogaine, I just knew that I had to do it, so I put all my effort into finding a way. I would have done anything short of selling my grand fathers sax to get it. A way found me. He didn’t even like me at the time (my call) but somehow he knew it would change my life, not to mention it would shut my mother up for a while, (LOL). Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is, try and think positive, and con every mother fucker you can until you get what you need to do the Ibogaine. It sure helped me. Worry about the con later. You’ll deal with it in the trip.    Randy        PS maybe one of these days I’ll quit crying when I talk about my step father.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 10:53:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

working a taper for several months.  got job problems that keep me from doing extended stays or i’d p/u and go.
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance

Ron ,ditto for me too.(all 4 ) when I made up my mind to do ibogaine all the pieces fell into place.One time I had a bed set up in a traditional detox (ouch) & they gave my bed away that am,I made one call & bam!That time I was being frugal & wanted to not spend a coupla grand.I have borrowed money to do it as well.Hows your credit?Why not start decreasing your benzo habit real slow your self for now ? Sometimes the littlest action can get the motion started.Not trying to sound condescending Ron, ,just wish you the best-shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Ron, I told you months ago that I paid for my Ibogaine. I lied, I didn’t. I didn’t think it was any of your business who paid for my treatment. My step father paid for it. He’s not rich, he just loves my mother more than life itself. At the time, him and I didn’t get along very well, matter of fact after what he has experienced in his life I don’t think there was anything about mine that he respected. After watching me go thru the Ibogaine experience he found something to respect. This from a man who flew through the Pluesti raid 100 feet off the ground in a B 24 watching his friends burst into flames and hit the ground. My relationship with this man may just be one of the best things that has happened after Ibogaine. I finally found my father. I’m telling you this at the risk of sarcasm from you, but I don’t care, I want you to feel as free as I do right now. I didn’t know how I was going to pay for the Ibogaine, I just knew that I had to do it, so I put all my effort into finding a way. I would have done anything short of selling my grand fathers sax to get it. A way found me. He didn’t even like me at the time (my call) but somehow he knew it would change my life, not to mention it would shut my mother up for a while, (LOL). Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is, try and think positive, and con every mother fucker you can until you get what you need to do the Ibogaine. It sure helped me. Worry about the con later. You’ll deal with it in the trip.    Randy        PS maybe one of these days I’ll quit crying when I talk about my step father.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Funds for Ibo-sandy
Date: March 31, 2005 at 10:49:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m down, no doubt. i’d be fool to be positive in my conditon. benefit yes, i’ve sought it, 1000 sounds like a giveaway with prices that have been quoted to me
how do you walk away from a gig you’ve had for 20 yrs for 2-3 weeks? no offense taken on my demeanor…many factors effect it that i do not share on list.
wishing you continued success and a peaceful path, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 1:02 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Funds for Ibo

Hey Ron… I heartily agree with Jasen’s words to you.    As far as paying for ibo, I can tell you my first trip was priced at around $1000 and that was certainly a lot more than I had laying around anywhere.  I remember telling a friend that if someone told me that I was going to hand over a grand to basically a total stranger, in a strange place, and let them give me a substance that hardly anyone in the world had ever heard of – I couldn’t believe how ridiculous that sounded!

I guess I’m saying that if you just allow it into your head that YES you are drawn to ibogaine, and you are definitely going to do it at some point, even if you don’t know exactly when – well,  it’s going to happen for sure.  And for me, I just made up my mind that I would borrow the money somewhere, and just making up my mind like that seemed to cause the money to show up without it being such a stretch.  Plus, once you’re thru the first experience, you can more easily work with it again at a greatly reduced stretch.

C’mon and give it a try. I know you can get the dough together, and if I ever met someone I think could really benefit from Iboga – it’s definitely you!  Not to offend, but you just seem “blanketed” in such incredible negativity and hopelessness, and ibo will rip that away at least for a bit.  It did for me…

Best and luck to you,  Sandy
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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 10:42:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:43:15 EST, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
<BiscuitBoy714@aol.com> wrote:     PS  > maybe one of these days I’ll
quit crying when I talk about my step father.

Thank you for sharing this Randy, all of it, not just the crying bit,
although that in particular is opening my heart in a much needed way
this a.m.

So you have more than a few angels in your life, eh?  You deserve ’em
bro.   Now I’m crying.  Much love, rach

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 9:38:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron ,ditto for me too.(all 4 ) when I made up my mind to do ibogaine all the pieces fell into place.One time I had a bed set up in a traditional detox (ouch) & they gave my bed away that am,I made one call & bam!That time I was being frugal & wanted to not spend a coupla grand.I have borrowed money to do it as well.Hows your credit?Why not start decreasing your benzo habit real slow your self for now ? Sometimes the littlest action can get the motion started.Not trying to sound condescending Ron, ,just wish you the best-shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Ron, I told you months ago that I paid for my Ibogaine. I lied, I didn’t. I didn’t think it was any of your business who paid for my treatment. My step father paid for it. He’s not rich, he just loves my mother more than life itself. At the time, him and I didn’t get along very well, matter of fact after what he has experienced in his life I don’t think there was anything about mine that he respected. After watching me go thru the Ibogaine experience he found something to respect. This from a man who flew through the Pluesti raid 100 feet off the ground in a B 24 watching his friends burst into flames and hit the ground. My relationship with this man may just be one of the best things that has happened after Ibogaine. I finally found my father. I’m telling you this at the risk of sarcasm from you, but I don’t care, I want you to feel as free as I do right now. I didn’t know how I was going to pay for the Ibogaine, I just knew that I had to do it, so I put all my effort into finding a way. I would have done anything short of selling my grand fathers sax to get it. A way found me. He didn’t even like me at the time (my call) but somehow he knew it would change my life, not to mention it would shut my mother up for a while, (LOL). Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is, try and think positive, and con every mother fucker you can until you get what you need to do the Ibogaine. It sure helped me. Worry about the con later. You’ll deal with it in the trip.    Randy        PS maybe one of these days I’ll quit crying when I talk about my step father.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Finance
Date: March 31, 2005 at 4:43:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, I told you months ago that I paid for my Ibogaine. I lied, I didn’t. I didn’t think it was any of your business who paid for my treatment. My step father paid for it. He’s not rich, he just loves my mother more than life itself. At the time, him and I didn’t get along very well, matter of fact after what he has experienced in his life I don’t think there was anything about mine that he respected. After watching me go thru the Ibogaine experience he found something to respect. This from a man who flew through the Pluesti raid 100 feet off the ground in a B 24 watching his friends burst into flames and hit the ground. My relationship with this man may just be one of the best things that has happened after Ibogaine. I finally found my father. I’m telling you this at the risk of sarcasm from you, but I don’t care, I want you to feel as free as I do right now. I didn’t know how I was going to pay for the Ibogaine, I just knew that I had to do it, so I put all my effort into finding a way. I would have done anything short of selling my grand fathers sax to get it. A way found me. He didn’t even like me at the time (my call) but somehow he knew it would change my life, not to mention it would shut my mother up for a while, (LOL). Anyway, I guess what I’m trying to say is, try and think positive, and con every mother fucker you can until you get what you need to do the Ibogaine. It sure helped me. Worry about the con later. You’ll deal with it in the trip.    Randy        PS maybe one of these days I’ll quit crying when I talk about my step father.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 31, 2005 at 4:03:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mamma, thanx for finding the page for me. I filled it out and sent it.     Randy

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 31, 2005 at 2:06:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know if any one has smoked it, but it is edible. It isn’t
common because without the HCl (freebase is pure) it isn’t very
stable. After a year in sealed plastic, 25 mg/kg had the effect of
2 mg/kg of HCl.

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 19:27:43 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/30/05 8:40:40 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

ALso ‘freebase’ is missing from the forms of ibogaine.

So who has freebased ibogaine.  At what doses and with what
effects?

Thanks

Howard

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Funds for Ibo
Date: March 31, 2005 at 2:02:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron… I heartily agree with Jasen’s words to you.    As far as paying for ibo, I can tell you my first trip was priced at around $1000 and that was certainly a lot more than I had laying around anywhere.  I remember telling a friend that if someone told me that I was going to hand over a grand to basically a total stranger, in a strange place, and let them give me a substance that hardly anyone in the world had ever heard of – I couldn’t believe how ridiculous that sounded!

I guess I’m saying that if you just allow it into your head that YES you are drawn to ibogaine, and you are definitely going to do it at some point, even if you don’t know exactly when – well,  it’s going to happen for sure.  And for me, I just made up my mind that I would borrow the money somewhere, and just making up my mind like that seemed to cause the money to show up without it being such a stretch.  Plus, once you’re thru the first experience, you can more easily work with it again at a greatly reduced stretch.

C’mon and give it a try. I know you can get the dough together, and if I ever met someone I think could really benefit from Iboga – it’s definitely you!  Not to offend, but you just seem “blanketed” in such incredible negativity and hopelessness, and ibo will rip that away at least for a bit.  It did for me…

Best and luck to you,  Sandy
/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 10:27:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/30/05 8:40:40 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

ALso ‘freebase’ is missing from the forms of ibogaine.

So who has freebased ibogaine.  At what doses and with what effects?

Thanks

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A MAN.to j from ron OT
Date: March 30, 2005 at 9:56:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the personal note. be cool bro, don’t lose it, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A MAN.

Hello Ron,

Mate,…I feel the first step is to stop thinking of yourself as a whiner
and slow. If you played the piano a few times in your life that does
not make you a pianist.

As you know, what you think and what comes from your mouth is
very very powerful.
I assume you are in the US, if you are, then it will not cost you 10
grand as there are people there that can help for much much less
than that.

The problem is you would still have to come up with a few thousand.
What I did was to go to  banks and applied for a loan until I got one.

I understand this does not help much however this is what I did, had
I not recieved the loan I could not have done this yet.

love you bro’
Jasen.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaineto jason ) (OT) from ron
Date: March 30, 2005 at 9:53:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the thought, wishing you continued success, it’s sneaky, make you do stuff you don’t want to (the addiction , dependancy, compulsion or whatever the hell it is i have) hope your bug wasn’t as bad as mine… i dangle by that thread, getting highs’s not an option cause the don’t make enough of the stuff, can’t stay straight  withrx meds, but i try. unfortunately(whine.. for the self rightuous locked solid in sobriety)  no kidding, thanks for the kind thought.  hey, most of us or at least this dinosaur shared periodically. never hear that concept expressed on the list. i suspect many of us have valuable skills to barter with among ourselves and some have money and some have mucho dinero. i’ll defer to the scholars on spiritual growth. my understanding is that there must be a common path, a common goal and a group of people following it for enlightenment. but i whine on…..to no good end..i’ll have to do it the old fashion way. seems there’s several distinct tribes on the list, close knit, wary of strangers with different agendas. many having done ibo but still doing other drugs,some sober, some ibo chic and a few good ones. myself, i have contributed nothing
so i must fit in somewhere.  i’d hate to move back to the village just to really be part of this.  i hope those seeking or who have already achieved sobriety find it or hang onto it.  it was the most precious thing i ever lost.  my best efforts got me access to a computer and this list, hope i can make the next leap and still keep the computer. i can pawn my micro wave, 19 in. tv and 8 track, that’s a decent down payment isn’t it? thanks to the good folks i’ve met here and those who have read my rants and whines. perhaps i’ll get it right next time i sign on for the list. peace to all and your solid sobriety.ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂

Hey Ron

You were most definatley invited. I for one would miss hearing from you if you chose to punch out.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

i feel like the list is a party and i wasn’t invited. perhaps i didn’t fly high and far enough or destiny has something more sinister than ibo dreams to take me away. i can stay in this rarified air or punch out.  maybe if i whine enough  some benefactor will throw me an ibo bone.. wishing all continued success and peace in their lives. ron—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Hi

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] A MAN.
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:53:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Ron,

Mate,…I feel the first step is to stop thinking of yourself as a whiner
and slow. If you played the piano a few times in your life that does
not make you a pianist.

As you know, what you think and what comes from your mouth is
very very powerful.
I assume you are in the US, if you are, then it will not cost you 10
grand as there are people there that can help for much much less
than that.

The problem is you would still have to come up with a few thousand.
What I did was to go to  banks and applied for a loan until I got one.

I understand this does not help much however this is what I did, had
I not recieved the loan I could not have done this yet.

love you bro’
Jasen.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:51:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ok, done. Thanks for allowing me the opportunity and privilage of sharing somewhat of my feelings, even if they’re a bit vague really I suppose. Not sure I’d want at this point to be more informative than I was, at this moment in time, but I do hope it helps at least a little bit, my filling out your form Marco

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Jeff Gallop” <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

Preston my LES friend…
The questionnaire would certainly take less time to fill out that
those two replies took. It is 17 ?’s besides the optional personal
info ones (5 or so which I skipped) answered by checking boxes not
writing replies (which with your talent and thought process i know
would take some time).
So Freak Free knowing that the Ibo angels have blessed you and this
would be a great chance to give some Ibo love back to the
world.Something we very rarely get the  opportunity to do.
hope to see you and V sooner than later…maybe Sunday April 10th for
afro celtic music of Baka who are from the Cameron near Gabon and
certainly reflect some Ibo vibe big time…More on this later this
week.
Glad you are keeping busy
with Ibo Angel Love to you and all on the list
Jeff (back at work and lovin’ it!)

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING
lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to
do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with
deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d
be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at
this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what
list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than
happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t
find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m
sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be
happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about
this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really
thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about
right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at
the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill
it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of
course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or
two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.
>
> On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any > form
> to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/
>
> 2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.
>
> I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did > your
> part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. > You
> had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
> you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
> questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.
>
> That’s how it looks.
>
> But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have > our
> IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
> want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
> need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that > “every
> vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???
>
> http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct > link
> to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and > sending
> it….
>
> Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
> supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* > why
> they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”
>
> Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
> you…
>
> Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
> discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
> questionnaire instead.
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:40:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Congratulations to Marko for gathering this info, and thanks for
the experiences.

In one question:

“Who was taking care of you during the experience:”

the choice ‘no one’ is missing. Not to advocate this option, but
that’s how I do low doses.

ALso ‘freebase’ is missing from the forms of ibogaine.

‘experience include’ – might be worth adding an option for
‘recovery’ of traumatic memories (including apparent memories later
considered to be symbolic).

I put in a few entries, I suggest that people use a pseudonym if
they don’t want to give a name, so that multiple experiences can be
correlated.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 7:35:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YEr right Jeff, I hadn’t actually seen how short it was when answering- I was more surprised by Marco’s apparent anger- plus, I’m not even sure I’d seen his first request, so was even more surprised. I allowed myself once again to fire off a reply I wish I coulda bit back in and not sent in the first place, but I did send it and I apologize Marco- I’ll fill in your questionaire for you very soon.
Thanks for shaking me gently Jeff.
;-))
Glad to hear from you and in such a positive mood, with such positive light veritably shining from your email.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Jeff Gallop” <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

Preston my LES friend…
The questionnaire would certainly take less time to fill out that
those two replies took. It is 17 ?’s besides the optional personal
info ones (5 or so which I skipped) answered by checking boxes not
writing replies (which with your talent and thought process i know
would take some time).
So Freak Free knowing that the Ibo angels have blessed you and this
would be a great chance to give some Ibo love back to the
world.Something we very rarely get the  opportunity to do.
hope to see you and V sooner than later…maybe Sunday April 10th for
afro celtic music of Baka who are from the Cameron near Gabon and
certainly reflect some Ibo vibe big time…More on this later this
week.
Glad you are keeping busy
with Ibo Angel Love to you and all on the list
Jeff (back at work and lovin’ it!)

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING
lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to
do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with
deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d
be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at
this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what
list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than
happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t
find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m
sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be
happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about
this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really
thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about
right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at
the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill
it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of
course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or
two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.
>
> On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any > form
> to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/
>
> 2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.
>
> I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did > your
> part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. > You
> had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
> you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
> questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.
>
> That’s how it looks.
>
> But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have > our
> IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
> want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
> need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that > “every
> vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???
>
> http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct > link
> to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and > sending
> it….
>
> Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
> supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* > why
> they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”
>
> Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
> you…
>
> Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
> discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
> questionnaire instead.
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 7:24:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

financial affairs are pvt., but we discuss histories of law breaking on the list, glamorize heroin(yea, i enjoyed pulling water out of a toilet tank to get off in the day), brag about the amount of meth we took…that’s good credentials…i’m a whiner and slow, tell me, how do you get the bread in the the middle of battle to go do ibo? children of rich parents need not respond…just old fashioned druggies that are tired and manged to pull it together w/o robbing the savings and loan. not trying to pry, if it’s an elite club where people can fly thousands of miles and drop 10 grand, that’s cool, i lose.  but if someone has some insight into this, please let me know cuz i’m slow and close to poor. miss a paycheck and i’m on the curb. ron, wishing all the best.thanking viable responses in advance. i’ve had several inquiries off list about this.
—– Original Message —– From: “Jeff Gallop” <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

Preston my LES friend…
The questionnaire would certainly take less time to fill out that
those two replies took. It is 17 ?’s besides the optional personal
info ones (5 or so which I skipped) answered by checking boxes not
writing replies (which with your talent and thought process i know
would take some time).
So Freak Free knowing that the Ibo angels have blessed you and this
would be a great chance to give some Ibo love back to the
world.Something we very rarely get the  opportunity to do.
hope to see you and V sooner than later…maybe Sunday April 10th for
afro celtic music of Baka who are from the Cameron near Gabon and
certainly reflect some Ibo vibe big time…More on this later this
week.
Glad you are keeping busy
with Ibo Angel Love to you and all on the list
Jeff (back at work and lovin’ it!)

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING
lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to
do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with
deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d
be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at
this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what
list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than
happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t
find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m
sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be
happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about
this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really
thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about
right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at
the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill
it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of
course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or
two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

>I must say I’m VERY disapointed.
>
> On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any > form
> to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/
>
> 2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.
>
> I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did > your
> part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. > You
> had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
> you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
> questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.
>
> That’s how it looks.
>
> But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have > our
> IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
> want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
> need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that > “every
> vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???
>
> http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct > link
> to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and > sending
> it….
>
> Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
> supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* > why
> they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”
>
> Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
> you…
>
> Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
> discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
> questionnaire instead.
>
> Marko
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Jeff Gallop <jeffgallop@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 5:50:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston my LES friend…
The questionnaire would certainly take less time to fill out that
those two replies took. It is 17 ?’s besides the optional personal
info ones (5 or so which I skipped) answered by checking boxes not
writing replies (which with your talent and thought process i know
would take some time).
So Freak Free knowing that the Ibo angels have blessed you and this
would be a great chance to give some Ibo love back to the
world.Something we very rarely get the  opportunity to do.
hope to see you and V sooner than later…maybe Sunday April 10th for
afro celtic music of Baka who are from the Cameron near Gabon and
certainly reflect some Ibo vibe big time…More on this later this
week.
Glad you are keeping busy
with Ibo Angel Love to you and all on the list
Jeff (back at work and lovin’ it!)

h
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 12:09:03 -0500, Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING
lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to
do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with
deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d
be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at
this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what
list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than
happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t
find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m
sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be
happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about
this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really
thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about
right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at
the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill
it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of
course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or
two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did your
part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. You
had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.

That’s how it looks.

But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have our
IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that “every
vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 4:42:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Leo Zeff, The Secret Chief, ibogaine
Date: March 30, 2005 at 3:25:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In reviewing some history of the west coast ibogaine scene in the US I turned
to Myron Stolaroff’s book, The Secret Chief, a dialog with and about Leo
Zeff, a wonderful person and experienced ibogaine therapist.  First let me present
two urls from MAPS.

I think this is a wonderful gift to this list and one that I can pass to you
from Leo Zeff and his gift to all of us.

Howard

http://www.maps.org/pubs/bookflier.pdf
scroll down till you come to The Secret Chief.

An e-version of the book is available from,
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/sctoc.html

Among the statements Zeff makez concerning ibogaine:
http://www.maps.org/secretchief/scchpt1.html

There’s another incident, too, an experience in my home that I had that was a
very important one. I’ve had migraines all my life. The earliest memory I
have of myself is lying on the front porch of my house at home while they’re
paving the street and the tar was there as they were paving the street and bricks
as they used in those days and the tar smell was making my head ache so bad.
That’s the earliest experience I had. About three, maybe four years old. The
headaches were extremely severe and painful. Pretty bad constantly.

One day I was tripping in a group trip. I was having an ibogaine trip. Do you
know ibogaine? It’s a fantastic medicine, really. I think I mentioned that we
use the word medicine rather than drugs.

You get the answers to all your questions on this trip, on the ibogaine trip.
Everything is clearly stated, any questions you have. You go into the trip
with questions if you want to. You ask the question but you don’t try to answer
it. The answer comes to you. This time I decided to ask Mr. Ibogaine – we call
him, the person from whom you get the answer, Mr. Ibogaine. Anyway, my
question was, what is this with these headaches that I have, that I suffer from?
That’s all. I was really turned on and deep in a trip and the question occurred
to me. Okay, ask it. “What is it with these headaches?”

The answer came. I’ve had a number of ibogaine trips and the answer always
comes. You may not recognize it for what it is, it may be very ambiguous or
somewhat like that, but you’ve got the answer for sure, you’d better hang onto it.
The answer came back and said, “You’re going to die.” I looked, and I said,
“What?” That’s what it said. I know it said it. I looked around it, and it said
I’m going to die.

You don’t get frightened with an experience like that. You just take
whatever’s handed to you and look at it, handle it. So I looked at it, and I looked at
it and I said, “Jesus Christ, what does that mean, I’m going to die? Well it
means you’re going to die, that’s all it means.” Die when? Of course I knew
I’m going to die some day. I know that, that’s nothing new. This isn’t the kind
of “You’re going to die” that Mr. Ibogaine was saying.

I said, “Well, gee, this is something between me and Mr. Ibogaine. It is not
something that I can tell anybody about.” On the report of my trip – we all
gathered the next morning and told what happened on our trip – on the report of
my trip, I could not say anything to them about Mr. Ibogaine’s saying I’m
going to die, since that would scare the hell out of everybody. They wouldn’t know
how to take it.

I didn’t know how to take it. I never did know. I kept reflecting on it for
quite some time. And it was about a month later. The only relief I could ever
get for migraine was codeine. And I took one helluva lot of codeine. I was
certainly habituated, but not addicted because there were times I wanted to quit
taking it, and I decided I was going to quit. I did quit; I quit for weeks, and
I could do it! Without too much trouble. And my migraines would be easier on
me even then. But then I’d get back on it again. I was taking as many as four
to eight half- grain tablets of codeine every day, so that I could function
without the pain.

A month after this trip I took another trip. I don’t remember what the
material was. It wasn’t ibogaine. I was with somebody, I can’t remember who it was,
I don’t even remember if it was a man or a woman. I took something, I think it
was acid, and had my trip. As I was coming down from the trip, as most of the
people liked to do and as I always wanted to do, I walked down to the water.
I walked along the water, which was a very important place for me. That’s
where I had my greatest conversations with God. That was really a very important
thing to me. I remember walking along, talking to God, and coming back up to
the house. As I was coming up the hill something flashed in my mind, something
that was a result of the space I was in from the trip. What flashed in my mind
was a phrase.

I know that when lots of times you take an ibogaine trip you get something
that’s enigmatic, you don’t know what it is, and later on you’ll get something
that fills it in. Completes the sentence is really what it does. It turns out
that “You’re going to die,” was part of a sentence. The second part of the
sentence flashed into my mind. “Unless you stop taking codeine.”

I rolled that one around and rolled it around and rolled it around and looked
at it. God-damn! How can I function, unless I take codeine? I just played
around with it a lot. Maybe I haven’t got the right message, or something like
that. Then I said, “No, Jacob, don’t fuck around with this stuff. You know the
answer. You take it. You got the right message. Take it, just as you got it.
I’m going to die unless I stop taking codeine. Okay, I got the message. That’s
the truth, I know that’s the truth. So, what am I going to do about it? Am I
going to quit taking codeine? It doesn’t bother me to die. I’m going to die some
day. But – I’m not ready yet. I don’t want to, right now. Am I going to quit
taking codeine?”

And it flashed in my mind the answer, this statement. “Jacob, that’s the
wrong question. The question is not ‘Are you going to quit taking codeine?’ The
question is, ‘Have you quit taking codeine?'” The same thing that happened with
the cigarettes.

And I knew the answer. Right then and there I knew the answer. I had quit. I
had quit. For a long, long time. My migraines got less and less. Occasionally
they would get real strong, I would take some for a little while. But it was
over with. I was over taking it as I used to. Well as you can imagine, that was
a very spectacular thing in my life.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$
Date: March 30, 2005 at 12:22:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

point of clarification:  providers risk their asses in the us.  they work and perform a good service.  i did not mean to suggest they are not honorable, dedicated people who wish to share this ibo experience that eludes me.  i pay everyone who works for me, docs, plumbers, mechanics..i do not expect a free ride, apologize if it came across that way and certainly think facilitating a life changing event is worth something.  all providers i have spoken to have been compassionate and have a passion for their work. there’s no free lunch…my opinions are just that and change with the tides b/c my head’s not screwed on straight.  all the more reason for ibo , maybe.  to all on the list doing this for others, no malice intended nor was i denigrating you for charging. hell, i don’t work for free., ron, hoping to someday make it, regardless of the cost.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 30, 2005 at 12:04:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marko, I tried to go the link you sent and had no luck finding it. Again. I’m not very computer savvy so I’ve got someone trying to help me find the page so I can fill it out. I have time today if I can find where to go. I have been almost non stop for the last month and today I have time to relax. Finally                       Randy

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: donna!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 10:53:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m trying but i can’t rest on ibo, no money, no source, but you’re right. the way i live is not fun nor has it been for years.
all under the watchful eyes of docs.  i found a very compassionate one but he is 1000 miles from where i live.  hard to see him regularly when trying to hold a job and caring for a terminally ill parent.  but we all have problems and i am quite sure others on this list have it much worse. i wish i could get to him right now, he’s one of the most knowledgable i’ve ever met. addiction docs in my town throw you into detox hell and will not listen to or even consider treament plans outside what their manuals say.  and boy do they charge you.  one guy hit me for 300 us  for 15 minutes just to tell me he wouldn’t help me.  shame they can’t be like the guy who practices so far away. love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths

In a message dated 30/03/2005 13:01:42 GMT Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid.  i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.  of course, hip is tolerance.  ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message

I think Ron maybe its time to stop watching others (I mean me and you) make the decision and just do it.  I think that what we both need to do.

Take care love donnaxxxxxxxxx

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 10:43:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee:
Point well made.  I am not a scientist and lack the objectivity in some areas outside my profession. i was sober for a long time before i let myself get rx’d into a box. i approached my sobriety from the 12 step  programs, viewing my problems as stemming from the disease of addiction.  I faithfully followed the steps and was told that everything would eventually be ok if i stayed on that spiritual path.  my guide was a pathologist who was very gifted.  i blindly followed the path on his faith and everything worked out ok.  some very wonderful things happened to me that i can contribute to what i was doing.  i was also able to share this with others like me and the same thing happened to them, which my sponsor told me it would.  i can’t get back on that path and view this ibo thing as a vehicle to jump start me to that or a similar path.  i only express my opinions and observations on what i saw happen.  hardly a scientific study..i should have qualified my remarks.  thanks for the well thought response.  i hope and pray i can get back on a path as it is a journey.  my worth on earth is only the sum of my good deeds to others. may we both find the peace and harmony that eludes me.  i’m in a fix that i may or may not get out of alive.  i hope everyone makes it who wants it. -addiction or dependancy or whatever the heck it is is a life threatening thing.  it has caused me and my family and countless others i know so much misery and pain.  i’d rather die than live much longer in this hell i’ve gotten myself into.  IMHO there is nothing romantic, hip, cool in addiction..for me, it’s a killer…i can’t count the number of people on 2 hands that i knew that died as a direct result of it or are spending the rest of their lives in prison.  i’m wery and tired and hang by a thread. love to all, ron, this is all my opinion which means very little.—-
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths

Hi Ron,

I just wanted to respond to what you said about the spiritual path being an empirical route which I find to be a very ascute and spiritual observation.

The problem I have with the academic view of recovery is this. It is purely scientific (it seems to me) and does not understand the interaction of the spiritual with the physical.

As an example:

I am now about to deal with an issue which happened to me when i was very young and because of which I have suffered from particular fears which have affected the way I lived my life and related to others.

If I had gone to a shrink with this problem, he could not imo have healed it as an isolated issue as it is interconnected to other issues which spiritually have to be healed first in order to fulfill properly one’s path. BTW I only became aware of the problem through eboga – it was completely blanked. So I would not have known the reasons had I gone in the first place to a shrink for my problem.

I have prior to now deeply healed my sexuality among other things. Why was it that my sexuality was healed before this issue I am referring to come into full focus for healing? The answer of course is that there is an spiritual order to healing and the order determines the way in which your ego makes life choices prior to the healing of the issue.

If this issue had been healed before my sexuality I might have found life sufficiently tolerable as to not have sought the healing in the first place of other issues or I may not have been desperate enough to change homes and start a new life. i.e. the isses determine the life actions our ego mind takes and the order of the resolving of the issues plays a very important role in our development and growing awareness. Hence, the spirit is in a way manipulating the ego.

All of this of course indicates a path and so the healing of issues are linked to the point we are on the path and where we have to go.

None of which comes into scientific healing to the best of my knowledge.

Hence, while there may also be a psychological order to healing. It also happens that the spiritual order is in sync with this in my experience. Two different realities which operate differently, are reflecting one another perfectly, allowing one viewpoint to be ignorant of the other. Two realities which appear unrelated and which allows the atheist to reaffirm their world view as and when they wish to do so, as they do not need to look to the spiritual to construct their arguments.

The spiritual realm is very clever and leaves its discovery to those brave enough to have some faith to begin with and a lot of humility to end with imo. It does not yield itself to pure atheist scientific enquiry as that would be to give spiritual understanding to those who were not spiritual in their intention.

As you say:

i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.

With love,

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid.  i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.  of course, hip is tolerance.  ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!

Peter,

You state:
‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.
As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I read that as a soul issue – psycho/spirituality. You read it as a psychological one.

IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a psychological issue (complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone. It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided to distance yourself from.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

That’s all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying the interpretation others use for what works for them?

Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with a drugs for all paradise?

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition. After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>RE: dissing a Substance!!
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
>
>
> Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
>complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
>life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
>wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
>crossing the street
>
>
> It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
>the
>ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
>for
>whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
>his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
>want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
> Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
>is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
>as I
>said often before.
>
>
> I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
>voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
>
>
> Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
>ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
>found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
>is
>sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
>it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
>but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
>and
>if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
>will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
>think
>you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
>we
>think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
>
>
> But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
>at
>all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
>are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
>ones, but that is a whole other story.
> pc
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
>so
>I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
>”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
>feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
>where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
>one
>is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
>cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
>individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
>is
>coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
>therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
>helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
>cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
>this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
>stop.
>There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
>bit
>of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
>the
>person to stop if they no longer want to use.
>
> Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
>Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
>works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
>psychological than neurochemical.
> Thank you for an interesting discussion
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
>have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
>aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
>that
>they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
>propose ibogaine should be promoted?
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>–
>————————————————-
> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> University of Amsterdam
>
> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>
> mail address: postbox 94208
> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>
> email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> fax +31-20-525 4317
>
> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> languages)
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:29:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 30/03/2005 13:01:42 GMT Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid.  i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.  of course, hip is tolerance.  ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message

I think Ron maybe its time to stop watching others (I mean me and you) make the decision and just do it.  I think that what we both need to do.

Take care love donnaxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:27:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron

Start your own party!! or better still join in with the others, how are you???? did you tell me last time we spoke you were going to see the doctor???? I hope you are well.
love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 30, 2005 at 8:24:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen

The wise one you are always right, hope you are ok and had a great easter I am in the garden its pouring with rain doing an easter egg hunt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!! – Ron – Spiritual Paths
Date: March 30, 2005 at 7:00:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron,

I just wanted to respond to what you said about the spiritual path being an empirical route which I find to be a very ascute and spiritual observation.

The problem I have with the academic view of recovery is this. It is purely scientific (it seems to me) and does not understand the interaction of the spiritual with the physical.

As an example:

I am now about to deal with an issue which happened to me when i was very young and because of which I have suffered from particular fears which have affected the way I lived my life and related to others.

If I had gone to a shrink with this problem, he could not imo have healed it as an isolated issue as it is interconnected to other issues which spiritually have to be healed first in order to fulfill properly one’s path. BTW I only became aware of the problem through eboga – it was completely blanked. So I would not have known the reasons had I gone in the first place to a shrink for my problem.

I have prior to now deeply healed my sexuality among other things. Why was it that my sexuality was healed before this issue I am referring to come into full focus for healing? The answer of course is that there is an spiritual order to healing and the order determines the way in which your ego makes life choices prior to the healing of the issue.

If this issue had been healed before my sexuality I might have found life sufficiently tolerable as to not have sought the healing in the first place of other issues or I may not have been desperate enough to change homes and start a new life. i.e. the isses determine the life actions our ego mind takes and the order of the resolving of the issues plays a very important role in our development and growing awareness. Hence, the spirit is in a way manipulating the ego.

All of this of course indicates a path and so the healing of issues are linked to the point we are on the path and where we have to go.

None of which comes into scientific healing to the best of my knowledge.

Hence, while there may also be a psychological order to healing. It also happens that the spiritual order is in sync with this in my experience. Two different realities which operate differently, are reflecting one another perfectly, allowing one viewpoint to be ignorant of the other. Two realities which appear unrelated and which allows the atheist to reaffirm their world view as and when they wish to do so, as they do not need to look to the spiritual to construct their arguments.

The spiritual realm is very clever and leaves its discovery to those brave enough to have some faith to begin with and a lot of humility to end with imo. It does not yield itself to pure atheist scientific enquiry as that would be to give spiritual understanding to those who were not spiritual in their intention.

As you say:

i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.

With love,

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid.  i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.  of course, hip is tolerance.  ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!

Peter,

You state:
‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.
As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I read that as a soul issue – psycho/spirituality. You read it as a psychological one.

IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a psychological issue (complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone. It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided to distance yourself from.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

That’s all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying the interpretation others use for what works for them?

Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with a drugs for all paradise?

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition. After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>RE: dissing a Substance!!
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
>
>
> Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
>complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
>life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
>wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
>crossing the street
>
>
> It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
>the
>ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
>for
>whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
>his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
>want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
> Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
>is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
>as I
>said often before.
>
>
> I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
>voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
>
>
> Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
>ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
>found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
>is
>sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
>it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
>but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
>and
>if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
>will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
>think
>you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
>we
>think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
>
>
> But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
>at
>all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
>are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
>ones, but that is a whole other story.
> pc
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
>so
>I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
>”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
>feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
>where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
>one
>is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
>cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
>individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
>is
>coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
>therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
>helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
>cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
>this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
>stop.
>There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
>bit
>of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
>the
>person to stop if they no longer want to use.
>
> Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
>Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
>works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
>psychological than neurochemical.
> Thank you for an interesting discussion
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
>have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
>aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
>that
>they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
>propose ibogaine should be promoted?
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>–
>————————————————-
> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> University of Amsterdam
>
> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>
> mail address: postbox 94208
> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>
> email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> fax +31-20-525 4317
>
> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> languages)
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:26:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron

You were most definatley invited. I for one would miss hearing from you if you chose to punch out.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

i feel like the list is a party and i wasn’t invited. perhaps i didn’t fly high and far enough or destiny has something more sinister than ibo dreams to take me away. i can stay in this rarified air or punch out.  maybe if i whine enough  some benefactor will throw me an ibo bone.. wishing all continued success and peace in their lives. ron—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Hi

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:16:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i feel like the list is a party and i wasn’t invited. perhaps i didn’t fly high and far enough or destiny has something more sinister than ibo dreams to take me away. i can stay in this rarified air or punch out.  maybe if i whine enough  some benefactor will throw me an ibo bone.. wishing all continued success and peace in their lives. ron—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Hi

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: February ‘Addiction’ and related matters.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:13:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:59 PM
Subject: February ‘Addiction’ and related matters.

# Drug related deaths in New Mexico
# Causes of death in Texas methadone patients over a decade
# ‘HIV prevention’ without mention of needle services!
# Survey of (non-fatal) overdoses among treatment entrants.
# Advertising and schools prevention programs both ‘work’ on teenage drinking.
# ‘Addiction’ editorial policies questioned again.

Dear Colleagues,

As we have come to expect, this edition of Addiction has a wealth of informative articles, this month’s theme (or one of them) being injecting behaviour and its worst consequences, overdose and viral disease transmission.

We are given an insight into 5 years of overdose figures from America’s worst state for drug overdoses (150 per million annually, double the national average).  New Mexico saw a tripling of methadone prescription during the 5 years yet at the same time, methadone related deaths decreased from 23 to 15 per million per year.  We are told that the crude amount of methadone dispensed in the state increased from 5kg to 14kg and from 23g to 53g per registered patient annually (63mg to 145mg per day).  I was not clear if this included prescriptions for pain management.  The authors quote a similar finding from New York in which just over 10% of drug related deaths involved methadone (Bryant et al.).  Other studies from the UK and Perth, WA showed reduced death rates with increasing methadone prescription.

And this ‘message’ may be contrasted with another current report from nearby Texas [D&A Dependence 78 (2005) 73-81].  Maxwell and colleagues looked at causes of death in current methadone maintenance patients during a 9 year period, finding differences between an older group with chronic diseases and others who were more likely to die from acute events such as overdose or road trauma.  Of the 766, 20% died from liver disease, 18% from cardiovascular disease, 14% from overdose.  At death, patients had been on methadone for a mean period of 43 months (mean age 46 years) with an average dose of 77mg daily with 4 take-home doses weekly.  These authors make a call for on-site primary care facilities for dependency patients.

February Addiction has an item and supporting editorial on overdoses and their relation to other reported life events such as relationship problems, housing difficulties and bereavements in patients entering treatment or prison.  The researchers report some modest and non-surprising statistical associations of sorry social circumstances and non-fatal overdose.  Yet despite a lack of causation, there are calls from both the authors and editorialist on all community agencies to be alert to this problem in an effort to recognise it and act accordingly.  What exactly do they expect social programs to do for drug users which they do not do already? Relationship guidance counselling may have a distant benefit but nothing reduces overdoses like good dependency treatment and other harm reduction manoeuvres.

The accompanying editorial by Zador is confusingly titled: “Reducing non-fatal overdoses among heroin users as an all-of-society challenge”.  The research is from entrants to treatment so obviously none reported a fatal overdose.  Yet one might assume that measures aimed at overdose would be expected to address fatal as well as non-fatal events.  Dr Zador is a world expert on opiate overdose, yet she fails to mention the place of other more focussed and cost effective approaches.  France and Switzerland reduced overdoses dramatically in the 1990s using approaches which were then in some ways ‘novel’ (pharmacy buprenorphine, injecting rooms, heroin trials, high quality methadone treatment).  Could it be that some of these are less politically comfortable?  We would all support her calls for better housing, social programs, grief counselling, marital services, etc.  However, preventing overdose is just one small (unproven) reason for such programs, dwarfed by alcohol, domestic violence and other issues, as well as just plain humanity which needs no controlled studies.

I have already commented on the lack of general harm reduction measures in Sullivan’s item ‘Decreasing international HIV transmission: the role of expanding access to opioid agonist therapies for injection drug users’ (copy on request)

In a high-rating editorial page Griffith Edwards (whose December retirement announcement seems to have been premature) writes a flowery appeal for ‘commissioned editorials’ on alcohol policies around the world.  He explains how important and informative these pieces will be for readers, even though most remain unwritten.  This request for submissions would seem to indicate that these are NOT in fact ‘commissioned’ in the usual sense.

Sally Casswell has written a perceptive commentary on Ellickson et al ‘Does alcohol advertising promote adolescent drinking? Results from a longitudinal assessment’ (note a typo of 2004, for 2005 on the citation).  The study from South Dakota looked at teen-age drinking habits related to exposure to advertising on TV, supermarkets, etc, finding correlations which could be reversed with a schools education program.  Casswell makes the point that all such advertising should cease in the interests of public health, something which will may be very difficult to make happen in America.  It has already happened in certain jurisdictions, to their continuing benefit.

For their own reasons, the journal management choose to place this piece as a letter to the editor even though it is commenting on a research report in the same edition.  Polite requests from me on this editorial practice were greeted with a lecture from his office on their (unique it would seem) concept of the ‘letters’ pages.  Other journal editors I have spoken to have no doubt that letters to the editor should be confined to unsolicited readers’ correspondence.

Addiction’s paucity of genuine correspondence seems at odds with the ‘robust debate’ Professor Edwards claims to espouse.  Other expert commentary, while welcome, should always be cited as such.  And normal practice would have the original article captioned as having a commentary, editorial or critique elsewhere in the journal.  I would be interested in any other views on this issue from readers.

Shah N, Lathrop SL, Landen MG. Unintentional methadone-related overdose death in New Mexico (USA) and implications for surveillance, 1998-2002. Addiction (2005) 100; 2: 176-188

Maxwell JC, Pullum TW, Tannertc K. Deaths of clients in methadone treatment in Texas: 1994-2002. Drug and Alcohol Dependence 78 (2005) 73-81

Sullivan LE, Metzger DS, Fudala PJ, Fiellin DA. Decreasing international HIV transmission: the role of expanding access to opioid agonist therapies for injection drug users. Addiction (2005) 100;2:150-158

Neale J, Robertson M. Recent life problems and non-fatal overdose among heroin users entering treatment. Addiction (2005) 100; 2: 168-175

Ellickson P, Collins RL, Hambarsoomians K, McCaffrey DF.  Does alcohol advertising promote adolescent drinking? Results from a longitudinal assessment. Addiction (2005) 100; 2:235-246

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ron
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:06:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,
Hope this finds you Good.  My bad for not listening
good and filling in the blanks with assumptions.
Hey do you have a Good Sponsor??  I’m not here to
make light of the reality of your situation, if it
came across that way I’m really sorry about that.

Maybe it’s corney, but know you aren’t alone in
this.  Feel free to e-mail me off list if you want.

A white Candle is lit in Dallas for you right Now.

Cheers,
jb

“a farmer doesn’t plow the soil by turning it over in
his mind”
http://ibogain.de
hopen, hoop hebben op, hoop, verwachting
espérance, espoir, espérer
Hoffnung
hoffen
&#949;&#955;&#960;&#943;&#948;&#945;,
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&#949;&#965;&#949;&#955;&#960;&#953;&#963;&#964;&#974;,
&#960;&#961;&#959;&#963;&#948;&#959;&#954;&#974;
sperare, speranza
querer e esperar
&#1085;&#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1103;&#1090;&#1100;&#1089;&#1103;,
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&#1087;&#1086;&#1083;&#1091;&#1095;&#1080;&#1090;&#1100;,
&#1091;&#1087;&#1086;&#1074;&#1072;&#1085;&#1080;&#1077;
esperanza, posibilidad
esperar, tener esperanzas, confiar
esperar, tener esperanzas, confiar
förhoppning, förtröstan
hoppas
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 8:08:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Margo,

Why not get information from the all of it,  you will then have a clearer decision, a choice as to what rings true.

with love Jasen.

>Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it?

>And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is

>that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone

>who  might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you

>know it  they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with.

>Seek help  from a professional not a bunch of addicts.

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:34:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi.  This exact “method” was suggested to me by a “Doctor” (so it must be good, right?)  I knew in a 12 step room.  Anyway, enough sarcasm, but he did have a good idea to me that’s similar to this endorphin stuff.  When I was really craving opiates he told me to ask my own doc to try low doses of naltrexone, (like 4 mgs) to stimulate production of endorphins.  He said to take it at night so as to not really experience the drop, and hopefully the next day or days it would increase my mood and lessen my craving.  Of course I asked my very conventional MD to try this and he said that that sounded like just so much “unknown experimentation.”  I gave up and relapsed.  Not blaming my relapse on him, mind you, but how much effort on his part would it’ve taken to let me try it?
I don’t know if there’s any sort of availability of naltrexone on the “black market,” but if there is, it would seem to work the same as those whuppins, and circumvent the violence?
Best, Sandy

>From: <slowone@hush.ai>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 00:00:11 -0800

>

>”Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

>

>I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the

>endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a

>temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts

>him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the

>pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical

>pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into

>painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers

>more easily.

>

>Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment

>could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

>

>

>On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

> >Hi Preston,

> >

> >Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent

>

> >for

> >democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

> >

> >http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

> >

> >Howard

> >

> >In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

> >

> >>you’ve got to be kidding, right?

> >>

> >>I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

>

> >raises

> >>dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but

> >somehow I’m

> >>just not quite buying this one either.

> >>

> >>”Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”

> >LOL, errrr,

> >>I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

>

> >Manhattan,

> >>and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in

> >some “let’s

> >>beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

> >

> >

> >  /]=————————————————————–

>

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> > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

> >  \]=————————————————————–

>

> >——-=[/

>

>

>

>Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get

>secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

>

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>

>

>

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>

>

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:15:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/28/2005 7:39:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, gary@bluemooncapital.com writes:
ARE YOU IN JAX

What is JAX?

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine storage
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:09:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/29/2005 2:03:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, mattzielinski@hotmail.com writes:
Hi
What is the best way to store ibogaine.  What is the aprox shelf life after delivery>?
Warmest Regards

Matt
air tight and out of the light.

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 7:02:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Glad to know you are doing the right thing, and Sandy is right not all doctors know what the hell they are doing. I have found the doctors that specializes in addiction are better at getting people off SSRI then other doctors. As for my comment about a bunch of drug addicts, I say that because I am a drug addict and I know how we think and what we do and in most cases we do try and do thing on our own without the help of people who are better qualified.

From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 6:22:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanx Sandy for the show of support.

As for your comment Margo: I am trying to get off the Effexor because it isn’t work very well & makes me uncomfortable in a number of ways including wiping out my memory and my ability to have an orgasm. As an intellectual, I need my brain on-line, and  as a human woman, I reaalllly need my clit on-line, so, you know, I am kinda motivated to get off the meds.

I *am* working closely with my psychiatrist, and she is trying to help. When I wrote the query to this fragrant and loving pile of ex junkies here, I was seeking help for something the doc wasn’t able to help with: she simply called it “discontinuation syndrome” and basically said it would pass. She hoped. Maybe. Soon? This was my second attempt to get off the efxr, and I was very very ill. I figured that these folks on the list might have some insight into how to deal with withdrawal.

Anyway, as an update, I have been taking a small dose of prozac along with the efxr, then I went cold turkey on the efxr, had about four days of intense (but less intense than the first time) discontinuation syndrome symptoms, and now I am starting to feel better (and hallelujah, the southern regions have finally come out of their efxr winter!!) .

I have been taking  vitamins & supplements to support the brain juice while I transition. Eating spinach and peanuts and lecithin and eggs (for the yolk) to help with one set of neurotransmitters. Adding a little 5-htp to help with another set.

so….thanks again for your sage advice and support, listees!
xo
Kiersten

On Mar 29, 2005, at 3:03 PM, booker w wrote:

Hey Margo – This is pretty offensive to me, I must say.  I have found (over YEARS and YEARS) that docs are often the least effective when it comes to info regarding drugs.  They throw you on whatever works and whatever keeps you quiet and happy.  “The bunch of addicts here” could teach a mountain of info to your beloved docs.

Why want off the effexor – gee, just to see if you can live without it, perhaps.  I don’t think all SSRI’s are meant for a lifetime.  I have a terrible hassle getting off zoloft.  Tried twice now.  My doc is no help at all.  Talking to others attempting and succeeding at what I want to do, always seems the best route.

From one of this “bunch.”  Sandy

>From: MargoK2004@aol.com
>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:14 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 3/28/2005 9:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
>
>kiers10@mac.com
>
>
>Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it?
>And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is
>that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone
>who  might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you
>know it  they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with.
>Seek help  from a professional not a bunch of addicts.
/]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/
Psychic Divas
firebright@mac.com
510 508 9597
510 932 3048

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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 29, 2005 at 6:03:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Margo – This is pretty offensive to me, I must say.  I have found (over YEARS and YEARS) that docs are often the least effective when it comes to info regarding drugs.  They throw you on whatever works and whatever keeps you quiet and happy.  “The bunch of addicts here” could teach a mountain of info to your beloved docs.
Why want off the effexor – gee, just to see if you can live without it, perhaps.  I don’t think all SSRI’s are meant for a lifetime.  I have a terrible hassle getting off zoloft.  Tried twice now.  My doc is no help at all.  Talking to others attempting and succeeding at what I want to do, always seems the best route.
From one of this “bunch.”  Sandy

>From: MargoK2004@aol.com

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.

>Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:14 EST

>

>

>In a message dated 3/28/2005 9:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:

>

>kiers10@mac.com

>

>

>Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it?

>And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is

>that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone

>who  might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you

>know it  they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with.

>Seek help  from a professional not a bunch of addicts.

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine storage
Date: March 29, 2005 at 2:02:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
What is the best way to store ibogaine.  What is the aprox shelf life after delivery>?
Warmest Regards

Matt

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 1:06:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi

Count me in if you win the lottery and I will do the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] ot Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 1:05:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 29/03/2005 03:12:32 GMT Standard Time, morning_wood263@yahoo.com writes:
I’ve been to 6 different clinics and the staff
varies greatly.  Someone recently said listen to
doctors not drug addicts…well why not listen to both
with a grain of salt, do research then come to
resonable conclusions.

I totally agree, listen to whoever is willing to help you, In my experience, personally I relate better to an ex addict than a doctor because I know they have been throgh withdrawals and beaten their addiction! but that might just be me I say take advice wherever you can get it
love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:54:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry, marko………i missed ur 1st post.
marcus

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:12:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning………..! smells like …………. recovery.               Randy <

Oh goodness, LOL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:50 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

Hey All, I agree that pain does release endorphins ,but i think youd start do develop tolerance,then what!-shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
This is so wide open for ridicule I don’t know where to start. Sure I guess I’d be happy that the whipping stopped and have a new lease on life for a little while, but what happens after these people get home? I know what I’d do. Bang. Twice for good measure. Then I’d be lookin’ for the sadistic son of a bitch that took a cane to my ass. Well, I guess if it truly was a person of the opposite sex I might make an exception, esp. if she wears one of those maid outfits or was covered in rubber or something. LOL I never could figure out what was so stimulating about whippin’ people or being whipped. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world. You know whoever came up with this was a huge fan of that De Sade dude. I’d like to look in that fuckers closet. WHOA nice whip. Just where in the hell did you get those boots? Do you really wear that mask? I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning………..! smells like …………. recovery.               Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:11:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.<

LOL, Marko, you’ve got to be kidding right? You don’t have time to waste egaging in discussion, but you want us to all rush to fill in your questionnaire?
Again, I’ll be happy to help out, when I too have a bit of time to “waste” (which I don’t consider filling in your questionnaire to be, only not something I yet have time for).

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did your
part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. You
had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.

That’s how it looks.

But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have our
IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that “every
vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:09:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/<

And I must say, I apologize but haven’t had much time to do much of ANYTHING lately, certainly not fill out any questionnaires. I’d be more than happy to do so, but when I get the opportunity and am not so overloaded with deadlines, call times, etc, etc.
So please remind me again at some point in about a month’s time and I’d be MUCH MORE than happy to take time to fill in your questionnair, but at this point, I’ve been deleting most email unread, completely, no matter what list it’s from- so it’s even possible I missed your request, personally.
So again, please remind me again in about a month, and I’d be more than happy to help out.
Actually, I went and looked for the questionnaire just now, couldn’t find it, then found your direct link to it, took a look and really, I’m sorry, I don’t have the time right now- no offense, and I honestly will be happy to do it at a later date (I can’t believe I’m feeling guilty about this- silly me) but not right now- it’ll take my stopping and really thinking deeply and giving answers about stuff I can’t stop to think about right now due to all the other much more necessary and important (to me at the moment) questions and commentary and stuff.
Send another reminder down the road, and I’ll be more than happy to fill it out- when I have the time, and I simply can’t make it right now. (Of course, in the time it took this email, I coulda answered at least one or two of your questions, but certainly not all of them.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Marko” <marko@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did your
part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. You
had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.

That’s how it looks.

But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have our
IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that “every
vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

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From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] for all who ingested IBO (except two)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:14:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I must say I’m VERY disapointed.

On February 27, I politely asked all of you who ingested IBO in any form
to fill out the questionnaire on http://sacrament.kibla.si/

2 (two) people from the list did it (thank you both!), others didn’t.

I *know* that I could get several hundreds entries if all of you did your
part… but you didn’t. Why you didn’t? Prolly because you don’t care. You
had your dose, now you feel that you are above all and everything, that
you’re worth more than the rest of humanity. And, filling out
questionnaires doesn’t apply to you.

That’s how it looks.

But, did you consider that some of us want to do MORE than just have our
IBO dose and feel above the rest because of it? That some of us really
want to bring IBO to state-paid medical environment? And, that we also
need your small input to make a step forward?? Do you remember that “every
vote counts”, not only during elections, but in everyday life???

http://sacrament.kibla.si/Areas/Research/questionare.php is a direct link
to the questionnaire – if someone feels like filling it out  and sending
it….

Your non-cooperation is very depressing. It makes me feel like stop
supplying IBO; and directing all inquieries to this list “ask *them* why
they got their IBO, and why you can’t get it!!!”

Perhaps more people will turn to whipping. Themselves, or maybe even
you…

Please don’t reply to this E-mail, because I won’t engage in any
discussion; I don’t have time to waste. I suggest that you fill the
questionnaire instead.

Marko

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 11:28:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 29 March 2005 09:00
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and
suicide crises

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the
endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a
temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts
him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the
pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical
pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into
painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers
more easily.

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

Sounds like it would appeal to Christians. I don’t believe this guy’s name
is Speransky, though.

Nick

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] morning wood (ot)
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:58:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry to whine on the forum.  every med i take is lawfully rx’d.  i had prelaw stuff that’s public record.  i’m glad for you and everyone who has had the good fortune to have the experience.  as stated, i am jealous as it’s not an option for me right now, but i feel i could benefit.  i truly hope you and others with your experience tucked away continue to live a sober life, living comfortably without having to take any mood or mind altering drugs.  as for my profession, i don’t know how you came up with me being a lawyer.  must have been some miscommunication on my part at an earlier date.. i work with indigent people and have dedicated my life to helping those less fortunate than me.  the road can be bumpy, but i appreciate success when i see it, including yours and others on this list. kind thoughts, ron

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 10:05:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

meetings, tapering, no sleep… just the traditional stuff.  i live in the bible belt, doc’s are afraid of their shadows and there is no ibo underground.  who’s waiting?  it ain’t me, not the way i feel. but i whine on so i’ll quit here.  thanks for the words of encouragement. hoping you stay on your peaceful path, ron

—– Original Message —– From: “Morning Wood” <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$

Ron,

Are you still talking to as many people as you can
to see if an unseen opportunity exists?  Ibo is
pricey, but if you look good, there might be ways
around that.  Although that would mean less time to
whine about stuff.
If you can’t afford a treatment, find some people
who can afford it.  The ‘underground’ would probably
find that worth the time I would assume.
If you really want change stop waiting for something
or someone.  Create some opportunities, you’re a
lawyer, trust me your sevices are in need.

Keep your head up Bro.
jb

— Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Ibo seems pricey, flying 1000’s of miles is pricey,
pc’s are pricey, geeze, can’t just steal a lawnmower
and score ibo.  new breed of affluent junkies.  we
could get brokers to manage our portfolios and
personal assistants to coordinate our time off.
it’s times like this, i wish i were keith richards.
not a put down, just a casual observation from a
55yr. old shell.
one day , maybe i’ll get sober again.  hope it’s
soon cuz i haven’t had fun in a zillion years.
peaceful path to all, i’ve lost quite a few along
this trek and they’re still falling. i’m not a
‘naut, just trying to tough it out the old way.
maybe my lottery ticket will land and i’ll take a
busload to sara’s or that island spa. if i make it,
it will be from the help of others.  ron, or what’s
left of him. peace to all, i revel in your
enthusiasm and am quite jealous.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 9:50:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey All, I agree that pain does release endorphins ,but i think youd start do develop tolerance,then what!-shell

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
This is so wide open for ridicule I don’t know where to start. Sure I guess I’d be happy that the whipping stopped and have a new lease on life for a little while, but what happens after these people get home? I know what I’d do. Bang. Twice for good measure. Then I’d be lookin’ for the sadistic son of a bitch that took a cane to my ass. Well, I guess if it truly was a person of the opposite sex I might make an exception, esp. if she wears one of those maid outfits or was covered in rubber or something. LOL I never could figure out what was so stimulating about whippin’ people or being whipped. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world. You know whoever came up with this was a huge fan of that De Sade dude. I’d like to look in that fuckers closet. WHOA nice whip. Just where in the hell did you get those boots? Do you really wear that mask? I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning……….. smells like …………. recovery.               Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 6:02:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is so wide open for ridicule I don’t know where to start. Sure I guess I’d be happy that the whipping stopped and have a new lease on life for a little while, but what happens after these people get home? I know what I’d do. Bang. Twice for good measure. Then I’d be lookin’ for the sadistic son of a bitch that took a cane to my ass. Well, I guess if it truly was a person of the opposite sex I might make an exception, esp. if she wears one of those maid outfits or was covered in rubber or something. LOL I never could figure out what was so stimulating about whippin’ people or being whipped. I guess it takes all kinds of people to make a world. You know whoever came up with this was a huge fan of that De Sade dude. I’d like to look in that fuckers closet. WHOA nice whip. Just where in the hell did you get those boots? Do you really wear that mask? I love the smell of rubber and wet leather in the morning……….. smells like …………. recovery.               Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] on melatonin…
Date: March 29, 2005 at 5:43:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After informing a friend and contributor to the new book about how badly wiped out mentally and physically I’d felt after that short jaunt to LA last week (I mena it, I was an emotional wreck, not to mention physical- I thought I was having a breakdown the first day or two back here in NYC- it was VERY weird), he wrote back with the following tidbit, which made me laugh, considering I know someone on this list who swears up and down that I should be eating bottles of the stuff…(not reeeeaaly bottles of it, just a lot of it for everything from returning my dreams- which is NOT a problem I’ve EVER had- I dream up a storm every single time I sleep and remember a lot of them- to helping me sleep- another problem I haven’t much problem with yet still get this stuff recommended). Anyway, here’s my friend’s comment:

Watch out for that melatonin herbal stuff that’s supposed to help you with sleep problems and snap you out of jet lag. I just had a bad experience with it. I’m pretty sure it’s what gave me a few days of some severe near-fainting and near-nausea episodes. Maybe it’s the Natural Miracle a lot of people say it is, but approach it with caution. Scary couple of days, my first and last bottle of melatonin now in trash can.<

LOL, so as I told him, I’ve tried it, it didn’t do anything to OR for me, so I don’t bother taking it. I’m sure it “works” for some and doesn’t for others, but I did think it funny that one of my more crazy-like friends loves the stuff, and one of my lesser crazy but still pretty nuts doesn’t.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 5:38:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I think I’m with you on this one Sara.
I agree that beating someone repeatedly probably does release a lot of funky chemicals, but laughing is just ever so much more FUN gosh darn it. I think I’d MUCH prefer a laugher clinic to a “beating the heck outta me” clinic.
But I’m surprised I ever have to write that, and that there might actually be others out there who might diagree- leaves my head shaking in wonderment.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:13 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

Laughing a lot will do the same, and is humane.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: dinsdag 29 maart 2005 10:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide
crises

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the
endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a
temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts
him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the
pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical
pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into
painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers
more easily.

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 4:13:47 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Laughing a lot will do the same, and is humane.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: dinsdag 29 maart 2005 10:00
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide
crises

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the
endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a
temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts
him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the
pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical
pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into
painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers
more easily.

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 3:00:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Beatings will continue until morale improves.”

I hate to be the one to say this, but it is conceivable that the
endorphins released by pain – or its cessation – do indeed have a
temporary, positive affect on mood. Like the person who cuts
him/her self to feel control of (at least one component of) the
pain they normally feel, some people may find a mundane physical
pain a big enough distraction from whatever issues got them into
painkillers in the first place that they can let go of painkillers
more easily.

Nick, would you be ok with this? I’m skeptical that this treatment
could ever be administered in a truly clinical way.

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 19:25:24 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent

for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time

raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but
somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!”
LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in

Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in
some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=————————————————————–

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 29, 2005 at 2:49:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 29 March 2005 00:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

nick man, you touch a number of interesting points for discussion here
i have to check my online osho zen tarot now…

hey, i got celebration. i just paste in what it says:

Life is a moment to celebrate, to enjoy. Make it fun, a celebration,
and then you will enter the temple. The temple is not for the
long-faced, it has never been for them. Look at life–do you see
sadness anywhere? Have you ever seen a tree depressed? Have you seen a
bird anxiety-ridden? Have you seen an animal neurotic? No, life is not
like that, not at all. Only man has gone wrong somewhere, and he has
gone wrong somewhere because he thinks himself to be very wise, very
clever. Your cleverness is your disease. Don’t be too wise. Always
remember to stop; don’t go to the extreme. A little foolishness and a
little wisdom is good, and the right combination makes you a buddha.

very good, i´ll consider that.

take care
ekki

Well, you start listening to that old fool Osho, God knows what’ll happen to
you! He didn’t even write those cards, you know.

Nick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 29, 2005 at 1:19:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ah yes, very true Howard, you’re right on that one.
But shhh, we wouldn’t want to give anyone any ideas, right?

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!” LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 29, 2005 at 12:39:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

Are you still talking to as many people as you can
to see if an unseen opportunity exists?  Ibo is
pricey, but if you look good, there might be ways
around that.  Although that would mean less time to
whine about stuff.
If you can’t afford a treatment, find some people
who can afford it.  The ‘underground’ would probably
find that worth the time I would assume.
If you really want change stop waiting for something
or someone.  Create some opportunities, you’re a
lawyer, trust me your sevices are in need.

Keep your head up Bro.
jb

— Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Ibo seems pricey, flying 1000’s of miles is pricey,
pc’s are pricey, geeze, can’t just steal a lawnmower
and score ibo.  new breed of affluent junkies.  we
could get brokers to manage our portfolios and
personal assistants to coordinate our time off.
it’s times like this, i wish i were keith richards.
not a put down, just a casual observation from a
55yr. old shell.
one day , maybe i’ll get sober again.  hope it’s
soon cuz i haven’t had fun in a zillion years.
peaceful path to all, i’ve lost quite a few along
this trek and they’re still falling. i’m not a
‘naut, just trying to tough it out the old way.
maybe my lottery ticket will land and i’ll take a
busload to sara’s or that island spa. if i make it,
it will be from the help of others.  ron, or what’s
left of him. peace to all, i revel in your
enthusiasm and am quite jealous.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:25:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Why stop at drug use.  The technology would seem to be a deterrent for
democratic principals as well, freedom of speech, etc.

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Howard

In a message dated 3/28/05 8:27:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?

I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.

“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!” LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] $$$$$$$$$$$$
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:07:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibo seems pricey, flying 1000’s of miles is pricey, pc’s are pricey, geeze, can’t just steal a lawnmower and score ibo.  new breed of affluent junkies.  we could get brokers to manage our portfolios and personal assistants to coordinate our time off.  it’s times like this, i wish i were keith richards. not a put down, just a casual observation from a 55yr. old shell.
one day , maybe i’ll get sober again.  hope it’s soon cuz i haven’t had fun in a zillion years. peaceful path to all, i’ve lost quite a few along this trek and they’re still falling. i’m not a ‘naut, just trying to tough it out the old way. maybe my lottery ticket will land and i’ll take a busload to sara’s or that island spa. if i make it, it will be from the help of others.  ron, or what’s left of him. peace to all, i revel in your enthusiasm and am quite jealous.

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: [Ibogaine] ot Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 9:03:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hiya,

That’s a great example of that stigma.

So I’m doing some spring cleaning and ran across
some old methadone medical records.  Re-reading it, I
had allot of the same feeling I get when reading about
whipping therapy.  Not with the methadone itself, but
like Jon said before, the way it is administered.

Basically they thought I looked fucked up, so they
refused my take homes and wanted to call the ER.  I
had arrest warrents, unless you have lots of money,
good luck getting prescribed methadone in Jail, so
when she picks up the phone to call 911 I click the
base of the phone to hang it up while the reciever was
in their hand (I didn’t touch them or the phone in
their hand, I’m not violent, their was not discussion
just irrational action by them), they wrote this down
in my medical records as me physically taking the
phone out of their hand, pushing them away, then hang
it up.

This makes for great reading, too bad it didn’t
happen like that.  And I’m not just relying on my own
account of the events either.  Anyways, they dropped
my dose and stripped my take home privilages and only
let me leave the clinic if I had a family member agree
to take me to the ER (even though I said repeatedly I
had no nead to go).  They said my position would
remain the same untill I could prove I wasn’t fucked
up on drugs.   (All of my clinic UA’s were clean) So
when I came back with a UA that I had to pay for that
showed nothing but cannabis in my system, they wrote,
in my medical records ‘psychological collapse’.  But
refer to no odd behavior prior other them my reaction
to them.  I mean come on, I was on my way to work.
You know that job thingy that I wasn’t able to get to
that day because of all the powertrip non-sense.

I’ve been to 6 different clinics and the staff
varies greatly.  Someone recently said listen to
doctors not drug addicts…well why not listen to both
with a grain of salt, do research then come to
resonable conclusions.

I listened only to the staff when I was on Orlaam
and ran out of money and believed them when they said
their wasn’t another way.  If I had looked into it
more at the time, I would have found the free and
sliding scale clinics that I eventually did find.
Instead I spent the next 4 months in indescribable
pain, worst I’ve ever experienced by far.  Terrible
waste of time and energy.
Some of the most good hearted people I’ve ever had
the chance to meet are/were staff at a clinic.  Some
of the worst too though.  Too many staff Power trips.
I see that sometimes in other drug treatments too 😉

I feel it should be equal.  For example, I dislike
the term ‘subject’, I think ‘patient’ is better.

Some therapist I’ve gone to can’t stand being on
equal level with patient, gives them some distance and
feeling of control I guess.  They seem more like a
friend for hire then anything really constructive,
that’s just me.

Meeting 30 new people would do more to improve
someones life then traditional therapy, and it’s way
cheeper.

-jb

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

you’ve got to be kidding, right?
I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long
periods of time raises
dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and
all, but somehow I’m
just not quite buying this one either.
“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy
with pain!” LOL, errrr,
I can think of some places where you can get it done
free here in Manhattan,
and other places where prices would probably be
cheaper than in some “let’s
beat the shit outta them there junkies”
establishments.-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to
Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures
depression and suicide crises

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide
crises
03/26/2005 13:06

The effect is astounding: a patient starts seeing
only bright colors in
the
surrounding world

Russian scientists from the city of Novosibirsk,
Siberia, made a
sensational
report at the international conference devoted to
new methods of treatment
and
rehabilitation in narcology. The report was called
“Methods of painful
impact
to treat addictive behavior.”

Siberian scientists believe that addiction to
alcohol and narcotics, as
well
as depression, suicidal thoughts and psychosomatic
diseases occur when an
individual loses his or her interest in life. The
absence of the will to
live is
caused with decreasing production of endorphins –
the substance, which is
known
as the hormone of happiness. If a depressed
individual receives a physical
punishment, whipping that is, it will stir up
endorphin receptors,
activate the
“production of happiness” and eventually remove
depressive feelings.

Russian scientists recommend the following course
of the whipping therapy:
30
sessions of 60 whips on the buttocks in every
procedure. A group of drug
addicts volunteered to test the new method of
treatment: the results can
be
described as good and excellent.

Doctor of Biological Sciences, Sergei Speransky,
is a very well known
figure
in Novosibirsk. The doctor became one of the
authors of the shocking
whipping
therapy. The professor used the self-flagellation
method to cure his own
depression; he also recovered from two heart
attacks with the help of
physical
tortures too.

“The whipping therapy becomes much more efficient
when a patients receives
the punishment from a person of the opposite sex.
The effect is
astounding: the
patient starts seeing only bright colors in the
surrounding world, the
heartache disappears, although it will take a
certain time for the
buttocks to heal,
of course,” Sergei Speransky told the Izvestia
newspaper.

The whipping therapy has not become a new
discovery in the history of
medicine. Tibetan monks widely used it for medical
purposes too. Soviet
specialists
used a special method of torturing therapy at
mental hospitals. They made
injections of brimstone and peach oil mixture to
inspire mentally
unbalanced
patience with a will to live. A patient would
suffer from horrible pain in
the body
after such an injection, but he or she would
change their attitude to life
for
the better afterwards.

“People might probably think of me as a
masochist,” Dr. Speransky said.
“But
I can assure you that I am not a classic masochist
at all,” he added.

The revolutionary method may take the Russian
healthcare to a whole new
level. The method is cheap and highly efficient,
as its authors assure.
Why not
using something more efficient, a rack, for
example?

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 28, 2005 at 8:47:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m a lurker wanting to be happy in my skin and sober…no helpers, just straight.
i’ve got about 8 yrs of college and a few degrees which have never gotten me laid.  i think a spiritual path is an empiracal route ,  otherwords , it can only be proved by doing it or watching others who have done it.  the multidisciplinary approach to recovery obscures this because one can’t tell what cause the result.  of course, hip is tolerance.  ron, looking for a peaceful path with serious doubts of finding it—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!

Peter,

You state:
‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.
As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I read that as a soul issue – psycho/spirituality. You read it as a psychological one.

IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a psychological issue (complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone. It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided to distance yourself from.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

That’s all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying the interpretation others use for what works for them?

Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with a drugs for all paradise?

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition. After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>RE: dissing a Substance!!
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
>
>
> Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
>complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
>life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
>wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
>crossing the street
>
>
> It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
>the
>ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
>for
>whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
>his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
>want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
> Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
>is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
>as I
>said often before.
>
>
> I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
>voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
>
>
> Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
>ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
>found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
>is
>sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
>it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
>but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
>and
>if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
>will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
>think
>you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
>we
>think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
>
>
> But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
>at
>all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
>are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
>ones, but that is a whole other story.
> pc
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
>so
>I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
>”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
>feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
>where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
>one
>is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
>cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
>individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
>is
>coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
>therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
>helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
>cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
>this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
>stop.
>There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
>bit
>of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
>the
>person to stop if they no longer want to use.
>
> Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
>Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
>works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
>psychological than neurochemical.
> Thank you for an interesting discussion
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
>have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
>aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
>that
>they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
>propose ibogaine should be promoted?
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>–
>————————————————-
> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> University of Amsterdam
>
> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>
> mail address: postbox 94208
> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>
> email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> fax +31-20-525 4317
>
> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> languages)
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] meth means methamphetamine
Date: March 28, 2005 at 8:33:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m really wanting to find information on the treatment of methamphetamine
dependency with ibogaine.  My dope fiend friends really need something,
anything, that will take the edge off the craving for that shot. I’ve read
that ibogaine is less effective for speed freaks than for opiate users,
but even a smaller degree of help will help a gang of them. Does anyone
know anywhere I can find info?

howard put the presentation i gave at the conference last month up on the
ibogaine dossier, you might be interested to read through it… i
summarise experiences of a few treatment providers who’ve treated people
for meth problems…

http://www.ibogaine.org/cosm.ppt

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 8:27:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you’ve got to be kidding, right?
I mean, the whole “beating people bloody for long periods of time raises dopamine levels” certainly does sound scientific and all, but somehow I’m just not quite buying this one either.
“Please, beat the addiction out of me, make me happy with pain!” LOL, errrr, I can think of some places where you can get it done free here in Manhattan, and other places where prices would probably be cheaper than in some “let’s beat the shit outta them there junkies” establishments.-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 7:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
03/26/2005 13:06

The effect is astounding: a patient starts seeing only bright colors in the
surrounding world

Russian scientists from the city of Novosibirsk, Siberia, made a sensational
report at the international conference devoted to new methods of treatment and
rehabilitation in narcology. The report was called “Methods of painful impact
to treat addictive behavior.”

Siberian scientists believe that addiction to alcohol and narcotics, as well
as depression, suicidal thoughts and psychosomatic diseases occur when an
individual loses his or her interest in life. The absence of the will to live is
caused with decreasing production of endorphins – the substance, which is known
as the hormone of happiness. If a depressed individual receives a physical
punishment, whipping that is, it will stir up endorphin receptors, activate the
“production of happiness” and eventually remove depressive feelings.

Russian scientists recommend the following course of the whipping therapy: 30
sessions of 60 whips on the buttocks in every procedure. A group of drug
addicts volunteered to test the new method of treatment: the results can be
described as good and excellent.

Doctor of Biological Sciences, Sergei Speransky, is a very well known figure
in Novosibirsk. The doctor became one of the authors of the shocking whipping
therapy. The professor used the self-flagellation method to cure his own
depression; he also recovered from two heart attacks with the help of physical
tortures too.

“The whipping therapy becomes much more efficient when a patients receives
the punishment from a person of the opposite sex. The effect is astounding: the
patient starts seeing only bright colors in the surrounding world, the
heartache disappears, although it will take a certain time for the buttocks to heal,
of course,” Sergei Speransky told the Izvestia newspaper.

The whipping therapy has not become a new discovery in the history of
medicine. Tibetan monks widely used it for medical purposes too. Soviet specialists
used a special method of torturing therapy at mental hospitals. They made
injections of brimstone and peach oil mixture to inspire mentally unbalanced
patience with a will to live. A patient would suffer from horrible pain in the body
after such an injection, but he or she would change their attitude to life for
the better afterwards.

“People might probably think of me as a masochist,” Dr. Speransky said. “But
I can assure you that I am not a classic masochist at all,” he added.

The revolutionary method may take the Russian healthcare to a whole new
level. The method is cheap and highly efficient, as its authors assure. Why not
using something more efficient, a rack, for example?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:42:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A little foolishness and a
little wisdom is good, and the right combination makes you a buddha.<

Hey, this reminded me of something- I just had to write my own bio for the new book project, and this is what I came up with , hopefully combining just the right amount of foolishness and a little wisdom too. Enjoy all.
;-))
(This ain’t exactly on topic, but that’s beginning to be a habit for me- sorry all, I do apologize, but I’m trying to keep in touch but at the moment am so slammed this past week with so many projects I’ve piled on myself, and other issues to deal with too, I’ve just not had a lot to say here as of late. Anyway, here’s the bio, just to share. I had fun, and wrote a 14 page introduction from scratch in the last 2 and a half days, as well as a table of contents, edited a whole bunch of submissions, edited some photo stuff of the coolest looking megalithic architecture and other ancient architectural and navigational and diffussional puzzlers, been to LA and back, did some dj’ing Saturday, and, well, am low on meds too- wow, I live an interesting sort of life, as the Chinese warn one another about- I wonder if there’s an easier way? LOL!)
How are you doin’ Nick? Not bored or anything are you? Getting out there? Living a little? I love you bro. Keep on keepin’ on.
;-))

Preston Peet is an accomplished author, actor, dj, musician, psychonaut and explorer. Editor of “Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archaeology and Hidden History,” and “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs,” the website DrugWar.com, a long-time contributor to High Times magazine and author of over 100 articles and stories published in too many publications to list here, not even debilitating chronic pain has kept Preston from visiting those places where others seldom tread. From climbing Ben Nevis, the highest mountain in Scotland, to ingesting shamanic doses of psychedelics and exploring the inner (and outer) realms of extremely altered consciousness, from smoking pot and hashish on the top of the tallest cathedral in Europe, to exploring ancient North American Indian ruins in New Mexico and Colorado, Preston goes where he needs to seek out answers to the questions he wants answered. Born Tracy Rich, in Ft. Meyers, Florida on September 11, 1966, he eventually picked the name Preston at age three and was eventually adopted by the Peet family at age five. Preston has lived in the swankiest digs to the muddiest streets of cities around the world, including Sarasota, Orlando, Tampa, and Tallahassee, all in Florida; Atlanta, Georgia; Paris, France; Las Navas del Marqés, Spain; Bergen, Norway; Rotterdam and Amsterdam, Nederlands; and London, England. Once arriving in NYC, Preston went from kicking cold turkey while squatting on the SUNY Purchase campus, to living strung out in Central Park and on the streets of LES, and now, with his life somewhat together, shares a small apartment in Manhattan with his beautiful vegan muse, soul-mate and lover Vanessa Cleary, and, at the moment, nine rescued cats. Preston is always on the lookout for ever more knowledge, and helping bring peace and adventure back in vogue.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

nick man, you touch a number of interesting points for discussion here
i have to check my online osho zen tarot now…

hey, i got celebration. i just paste in what it says:

Life is a moment to celebrate, to enjoy. Make it fun, a celebration,
and then you will enter the temple. The temple is not for the
long-faced, it has never been for them. Look at life–do you see
sadness anywhere? Have you ever seen a tree depressed? Have you seen a
bird anxiety-ridden? Have you seen an animal neurotic? No, life is not
like that, not at all. Only man has gone wrong somewhere, and he has
gone wrong somewhere because he thinks himself to be very wise, very
clever. Your cleverness is your disease. Don’t be too wise. Always
remember to stop; don’t go to the extreme. A little foolishness and a
little wisdom is good, and the right combination makes you a buddha.

very good, i´ll consider that.

take care
ekki

Am 28.03.2005 um 19:42 schrieb Nick Sandberg:
Hey Ekki,

Well, that’s another discussion, and a pretty fucking heavy one in my
experience! If you really want to rip apart the Reformation and the  rise of
the belief in the individual then that can be quite an inner Vietnam  of a
trip – Is existence actually happening to anyone? Self-enquiry. It’s a
strong medicine, maybe stronger even than iboga, and spirituality is  much
lighter and much more to most people’s taste these days. But when I learned
Tarot and the Tree of Life I learned that the most direct route to the
centre is through Key 15 – The Devil.

Determinism is not about a few variations – it’s that what happens in  the
future is created totally through pre-existing circumstances – personality,
dna, society, culture, environment, astrology, whatever. Variations not
relevant. Here I’m just being pedantic, but I don’t see Peter preaching
anything other than pure determinism, and if you do that I don’t see  how you
can have the bias level he has. That’s what I asked him about.

anyway
peter´s main concern is, as far as i read it, that today´s system to
deal with drug users is based on something similar to superstition and
causes unnecessary suffering. i totally agree with peter in this
respect.
in my opinion both the law and most treatment is bullshit.

I think the treatment systems are OK in principle, but that the
predisposition of most governments, esp the US gov, is to subtlely  make sure
heroin addiction stays. They don’t want to back real treatment, they  just
fuck around a little and then pay a fortune to some PR guys to make it look
good before election time. They actively want heroin.

I also don’t agree with making addicts social scapegoats.

peace
ekki

PS – BTW, I don’t buy that atheism, idealism or determinism are
conflicting,
but can’t bring myself to think about this stuff so much.

nick, no, but you bring up terms like this, humanism is another label
you introduced.
and i wonder: why you are so concerned with peter´s motivation?
what are yours in this discussion? uh, and what are mine?
-ekki

Yeah, good question! Conscious motivation and unconscious. I guess I  like to
say I want to find the latter so I follow where I’m interested, where  my
attention goes. I could say I CARE, but I think that’s a bit of a cop-out.
About Peter’s motivation, well, I think this guy has a hidden agenda  and
that stuff worries me a bit. Sure it’ll become clearer in time.

Respect

Nick

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:31:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/360/15176_whipping.html

Whipping therapy cures depression and suicide crises
03/26/2005 13:06

The effect is astounding: a patient starts seeing only bright colors in the
surrounding world

Russian scientists from the city of Novosibirsk, Siberia, made a sensational
report at the international conference devoted to new methods of treatment and
rehabilitation in narcology. The report was called “Methods of painful impact
to treat addictive behavior.”

Siberian scientists believe that addiction to alcohol and narcotics, as well
as depression, suicidal thoughts and psychosomatic diseases occur when an
individual loses his or her interest in life. The absence of the will to live is
caused with decreasing production of endorphins – the substance, which is known
as the hormone of happiness. If a depressed individual receives a physical
punishment, whipping that is, it will stir up endorphin receptors, activate the
“production of happiness” and eventually remove depressive feelings.

Russian scientists recommend the following course of the whipping therapy: 30
sessions of 60 whips on the buttocks in every procedure. A group of drug
addicts volunteered to test the new method of treatment: the results can be
described as good and excellent.

Doctor of Biological Sciences, Sergei Speransky, is a very well known figure
in Novosibirsk. The doctor became one of the authors of the shocking whipping
therapy. The professor used the self-flagellation method to cure his own
depression; he also recovered from two heart attacks with the help of physical
tortures too.

“The whipping therapy becomes much more efficient when a patients receives
the punishment from a person of the opposite sex. The effect is astounding: the
patient starts seeing only bright colors in the surrounding world, the
heartache disappears, although it will take a certain time for the buttocks to heal,
of course,” Sergei Speransky told the Izvestia newspaper.

The whipping therapy has not become a new discovery in the history of
medicine. Tibetan monks widely used it for medical purposes too. Soviet specialists
used a special method of torturing therapy at mental hospitals. They made
injections of brimstone and peach oil mixture to inspire mentally unbalanced
patience with a will to live. A patient would suffer from horrible pain in the body
after such an injection, but he or she would change their attitude to life for
the better afterwards.

“People might probably think of me as a masochist,” Dr. Speransky said. “But
I can assure you that I am not a classic masochist at all,” he added.

The revolutionary method may take the Russian healthcare to a whole new
level. The method is cheap and highly efficient, as its authors assure. Why not
using something more efficient, a rack, for example?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Gary Press” <gary@bluemooncapital.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:30:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ARE YOU IN JAX
—–Original message—–
From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 17:07:31 -0700
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.

In a message dated 3/28/2005 9:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
kiers10@mac.com

Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it? And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone who might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you know it they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with. Seek help from a professional not a bunch of addicts.

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:30:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kiersten, talk to a doctor who knows what the hell he’s doing.

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:25:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/28/2005 9:40:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:
kiers10@mac.com

Kiersten, if Effexor is working for you why do you want to get off of it? And have you try talking to a doctor about it. The problem with most addicts is that they try and do there own medical management instead of letting someone who might just know what there doing take care of it for them and before you know it they are back on the drugs that got them in trouble to began with. Seek help from a professional not a bunch of addicts.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] meth means methamphetamine
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:24:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/28/05 6:55:32 PM, pnina.ruth@att.net writes:

I’m really wanting to find information on the treatment of methamphetamine
dependency with ibogaine.  My dope fiend friends really need something,
anything, that will take the edge off the craving for that shot. I’ve read
that ibogaine is less effective for speed freaks than for opiate users,
but even a smaller degree of help will help a gang of them. Does anyone
know anywhere I can find info?

Jon Freedlander provided a powerpoint slide show at the nyc ibogaine forum.
It is available from http://www.ibogaine.org/cosm.ppt

You can also do a google.com search for “ibogaine methamphetamine”

You can also get a free powerpoint reader from microsoft just do a google.com
search for that if you don’t have the program.

Howard

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From: pnina.ruth@att.net
Subject: [Ibogaine] meth means methamphetamine
Date: March 28, 2005 at 6:54:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m really wanting to find information on the treatment of methamphetamine dependency with ibogaine.  My dope fiend friends really need something, anything, that will take the edge off the craving for that shot. I’ve read that ibogaine is less effective for speed freaks than for opiate users, but even a smaller degree of help will help a gang of them. Does anyone know anywhere I can find info?

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 6:25:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

nick man, you touch a number of interesting points for discussion here
i have to check my online osho zen tarot now…

hey, i got celebration. i just paste in what it says:

Life is a moment to celebrate, to enjoy. Make it fun, a celebration, and then you will enter the temple. The temple is not for the long-faced, it has never been for them. Look at life–do you see sadness anywhere? Have you ever seen a tree depressed? Have you seen a bird anxiety-ridden? Have you seen an animal neurotic? No, life is not like that, not at all. Only man has gone wrong somewhere, and he has gone wrong somewhere because he thinks himself to be very wise, very clever. Your cleverness is your disease. Don’t be too wise. Always remember to stop; don’t go to the extreme. A little foolishness and a little wisdom is good, and the right combination makes you a buddha.

very good, i´ll consider that.

take care
ekki

Am 28.03.2005 um 19:42 schrieb Nick Sandberg:
Hey Ekki,

Well, that’s another discussion, and a pretty fucking heavy one in my
experience! If you really want to rip apart the Reformation and the rise of
the belief in the individual then that can be quite an inner Vietnam of a
trip – Is existence actually happening to anyone? Self-enquiry. It’s a
strong medicine, maybe stronger even than iboga, and spirituality is much
lighter and much more to most people’s taste these days. But when I learned
Tarot and the Tree of Life I learned that the most direct route to the
centre is through Key 15 – The Devil.

Determinism is not about a few variations – it’s that what happens in the
future is created totally through pre-existing circumstances – personality,
dna, society, culture, environment, astrology, whatever. Variations not
relevant. Here I’m just being pedantic, but I don’t see Peter preaching
anything other than pure determinism, and if you do that I don’t see how you
can have the bias level he has. That’s what I asked him about.

anyway
peter´s main concern is, as far as i read it, that today´s system to
deal with drug users is based on something similar to superstition and
causes unnecessary suffering. i totally agree with peter in this
respect.
in my opinion both the law and most treatment is bullshit.

I think the treatment systems are OK in principle, but that the
predisposition of most governments, esp the US gov, is to subtlely make sure
heroin addiction stays. They don’t want to back real treatment, they just
fuck around a little and then pay a fortune to some PR guys to make it look
good before election time. They actively want heroin.

I also don’t agree with making addicts social scapegoats.

peace
ekki

PS – BTW, I don’t buy that atheism, idealism or determinism are
conflicting,
but can’t bring myself to think about this stuff so much.

nick, no, but you bring up terms like this, humanism is another label
you introduced.
and i wonder: why you are so concerned with peter´s motivation?
what are yours in this discussion? uh, and what are mine?
-ekki

Yeah, good question! Conscious motivation and unconscious. I guess I like to
say I want to find the latter so I follow where I’m interested, where my
attention goes. I could say I CARE, but I think that’s a bit of a cop-out.
About Peter’s motivation, well, I think this guy has a hidden agenda and
that stuff worries me a bit. Sure it’ll become clearer in time.

Respect

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 12:42:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 28 March 2005 16:42
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Am 28.03.2005 um 17:16 schrieb Lee Albert:

Ekki,

If all Peter states is:

“he just states that the way people act is partly,
probably mostly, conditioned (and he doesn´t write “totally
determined”) by their enviroment.” – snip –

then I would not even have bothered to respond.

Lee

hi lee
this was referring to the determinism discussion that nick brought up.
of course peter states a lot of other things, too, and it´s good he
does so.

and hey nick,
peter thinks that ” a few variations” are possible, so not everything
determined. and of course, the way we dress, use cars and subways, eat,
go to work, spend our evenings etc. is conditioned to a big part by
society, wouldn´t you agree? the universal determinism you seem to
believe in is certainly not peters cup of tea, and it´s not mine
either, because i don´t think it goes well together with spirituality
or helping people.

Hey Ekki,

Well, that’s another discussion, and a pretty fucking heavy one in my
experience! If you really want to rip apart the Reformation and the rise of
the belief in the individual then that can be quite an inner Vietnam of a
trip – Is existence actually happening to anyone? Self-enquiry. It’s a
strong medicine, maybe stronger even than iboga, and spirituality is much
lighter and much more to most people’s taste these days. But when I learned
Tarot and the Tree of Life I learned that the most direct route to the
centre is through Key 15 – The Devil.

Determinism is not about a few variations – it’s that what happens in the
future is created totally through pre-existing circumstances – personality,
dna, society, culture, environment, astrology, whatever. Variations not
relevant. Here I’m just being pedantic, but I don’t see Peter preaching
anything other than pure determinism, and if you do that I don’t see how you
can have the bias level he has. That’s what I asked him about.

anyway
peter´s main concern is, as far as i read it, that today´s system to
deal with drug users is based on something similar to superstition and
causes unnecessary suffering. i totally agree with peter in this
respect.
in my opinion both the law and most treatment is bullshit.

I think the treatment systems are OK in principle, but that the
predisposition of most governments, esp the US gov, is to subtlely make sure
heroin addiction stays. They don’t want to back real treatment, they just
fuck around a little and then pay a fortune to some PR guys to make it look
good before election time. They actively want heroin.

I also don’t agree with making addicts social scapegoats.

peace
ekki

PS – BTW, I don’t buy that atheism, idealism or determinism are
conflicting,
but can’t bring myself to think about this stuff so much.

nick, no, but you bring up terms like this, humanism is another label
you introduced.
and i wonder: why you are so concerned with peter´s motivation?
what are yours in this discussion? uh, and what are mine?
-ekki

Yeah, good question! Conscious motivation and unconscious. I guess I like to
say I want to find the latter so I follow where I’m interested, where my
attention goes. I could say I CARE, but I think that’s a bit of a cop-out.
About Peter’s motivation, well, I think this guy has a hidden agenda and
that stuff worries me a bit. Sure it’ll become clearer in time.

Respect

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 11:46:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com]
Sent: 28 March 2005 17:36
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Nick love..

I do believe you are reacting to the postures of academic rhetoric a
bit too literally.  There are all sorts of qualifiers one inserts into
fuddy-duddy type writing, often to engage with an audience of peers
that do not want their egos challenged as much as reinforced.  So
inserting a phrase of “of course” is like a shorthand way of
acknowledging that many of one’s readers/listeners are aware of this
material already, and the author is simply reminding them of what they
know.

Rachy lovey,

Yes, but it isn’t in this case, is it? It’s not “of course” cause it’s not
accepted. People, theorists, scientists, whatever don’t agree on this. That
I’m making maybe a lot out of a little, yes for sure!

Nick

Here’s another take on the “creation” of addiction concepts by
Caroline Jean Ackerman:

http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1381.html

from rainy nyc, rachy

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 11:36:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick love..

I do believe you are reacting to the postures of academic rhetoric a
bit too literally.  There are all sorts of qualifiers one inserts into
fuddy-duddy type writing, often to engage with an audience of peers
that do not want their egos challenged as much as reinforced.  So
inserting a phrase of “of course” is like a shorthand way of
acknowledging that many of one’s readers/listeners are aware of this
material already, and the author is simply reminding them of what they
know.

Here’s another take on the “creation” of addiction concepts by
Caroline Jean Ackerman:

http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1381.html

from rainy nyc, rachy

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:57:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 28.03.2005 um 16:37 schrieb Nick Sandberg:

PS – BTW, I don’t buy that atheism, idealism or determinism are conflicting,
but can’t bring myself to think about this stuff so much.

nick, no, but you bring up terms like this, humanism is another label you introduced.
and i wonder: why you are so concerned with peter´s motivation?
what are yours in this discussion? uh, and what are mine?
-ekki

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:41:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 28.03.2005 um 17:16 schrieb Lee Albert:

Ekki,

If all Peter states is:

“he just states that the way people act is partly,
probably mostly, conditioned (and he doesn´t write “totally
determined”) by their enviroment.” – snip –

then I would not even have bothered to respond.

Lee

hi lee
this was referring to the determinism discussion that nick brought up.
of course peter states a lot of other things, too, and it´s good he does so.

and hey nick,
peter thinks that ” a few variations” are possible, so not everything determined. and of course, the way we dress, use cars and subways, eat, go to work, spend our evenings etc. is conditioned to a big part by society, wouldn´t you agree? the universal determinism you seem to believe in is certainly not peters cup of tea, and it´s not mine either, because i don´t think it goes well together with spirituality or helping people.

anyway
peter´s main concern is, as far as i read it, that today´s system to deal with drug users is based on something similar to superstition and causes unnecessary suffering. i totally agree with peter in this respect.
in my opinion both the law and most treatment is bullshit.

peace
ekki

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 10:16:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki,

If all Peter states is:

“he just states that the way people act is partly,
probably mostly, conditioned (and he doesn´t write “totally
determined”) by their enviroment.” – snip –

then I would not even have bothered to respond.

Lee

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Howard,
>
> Yes, Peter’s paper http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/cohen.addiction.html is
> interesting. In many ways quite a stunning bit of writing and
> theorizing. He
> shows the root of how the idea of “addiction” arose, that it’s coming
> from
> the Reformation and the new post-religious concept of “individualism.”
> But
> somewhere, for me, he loses it a bit by being so rabidly
> deterministic. He
> writes….
>
> … “It is, of course, a fiction that individual persons steer
> themselves,
> as if an inner compass were installed in each of us. Our ‘personal’
> steering
> is a socially developed, relational and cultural ability that allows a
> few
> variations, although for us it seems as if this variation constitutes
> the
> summit of individuality. The steering forces that shape men and move
> them in
> relation to each other (history, role, climate, economic conditions,
> etc.)
> are so inherent to location, cultures of upbringing and period in
> which a
> person develops, that the imprints they make determine human beings at
> least
> as much and probably much more than the differences between them.
> True, no
> two waves in the sea are the same, but how important are these
> differences
> to understand the phenomenon of waves?”….(Is the addiction doctor the
> voodoo priest of Western man? – P. Cohen, 2000.)
>
> This guy is like seriously deterministic. He uses his utter belief in
> rational determinism to bludgeon and ridicule the business of addiction
> treatment making of it pure voodoo and this seems to be the basis of
> his
> whole stance on drugs.
>
> Personally, I’m not convinced. It’s too one-sided. His belief that
> Determinism is Truth and all other viewpoints need to be ridiculed is
> so
> extreme that, to me, it borders on a religious frenzy, precisely the
> thing
> he says he wants to get rid of. I mean, even like totally walled-in,
> logic-worshipping, stuck-in-their-head, peer-reviewed total scientists
> aren’t THAT deterministic. They see there are two sides minimum to
> every
> argument.
>
> Personally, I think he’s just using this whole deal as an excuse to
> put out
> a prejudiced viewpoint.
>
> Nick
>

peter has been accused of atheism and of idealism, two rather opposing
philosophies.
now he is supposed to be totally deterministic. that´s not based on
evidence, either. he just states that the way people act is partly,
probably mostly, conditioned (and he doesn´t write “totally
determined”) by their enviroment.

and nick, how do you conclude that peter thinks all other viewpoints
need to be ridiculed?

ekki, the rational one 🙂

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 28, 2005 at 9:39:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Kiersten ,i have heard from many that it is difficult to get of those antidepressants. I talked to a lady that tried ibogaine to get off effexor ,she said it did not help. Have you looked at eric braverman’s book /site about building up neurotransmitters with amino acids & diet?Wish you the best- shell

kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com> wrote:
Hey people,

so, I know this is nothing compared to what many of you have gone
through with H, etc, , but I am trying to simply stop taking Effexor
and I every time I get down to two days without, I become dizzy, the
white noise in my head gets turned up to eleven, and I can’t stay
awake. I tried to go off a couple of weeks ago and this happened, so
the doc gave me a low dose of prozac that I have been on now for a
week, and her plan was that I could then quit the Effexor cold. Now the
zaps are milder, but I can do nothing but sleep and listen to white
noise and the world looks very black and I feel a little crazy.

I had a dream last week that since I was going to Florida that I should
go to the Caribbean to do an iboga ceremony. Is it possible that iboga
can help me with this? What do you think?
thanks,
kiersten
On Mar 23, 2005, at 7:12 PM, Jasen Chamoun wrote:

> Hey BB,
>
> How you doing matey. My name is Jasen, I had been (had,…WOW)
> addicted to Methadone and heroin for 23 years. Since the
> age of 15 (first serious habit). I live in Australia. I spoke to many
> understanding people on the list for a few months before going to
> Amsterdam Holland to have the treatment with Sara. I was on 60mg at
> the time and also double and triple dosed a few days
> leading up to getting to Sara’s.
>
> Sara gave me the “extract” Iboga. I was at Sara’s for 27 days. The
> “Iboga'” helped me in many ways, one of which was to relieve
> me of at least 85% of the withdrawals.
>
> The good thing about Iboga’ is that it seems to help with some of the
> underlying reasons as to the addiction in the first place, it did for
> me anyway. It also seems to give you more understanding and it filled
> me with love,..love in very generous amounts. It really was a
> wonderfull medicine for me.
>
> I am now going into my fourth month,…free of all addiction and I am
> loving it. The residual withdrawals for me stuck with me for
> quite a while,….but you know what,..it is not like “hanging out” it
> is like you know you are a little unwell,..like you have the flu, and
> you will get better. It gives you strength.
>
> One very important thing is “aftercare”. Organise yourself in a way
> where you will not be around your old “using” mates, and your
> enviroment is different when you get home. Iboga resets your life and
> gives you the opportunity to take a different path if you so
> choose. It did for me.
>
> If you have any questions, I am here for you, as are many others. Be
> well BB.
>
> I am strong.
>
>
> love,
>
> Jasen.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —– From: “bb”
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:13 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
>
>
>> I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have signed on in hopes of
>> discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from methadone. Then of course
>> is
>> the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention proper application.
>> But
>> first of all is the question of whether there is any genuine value for
>> meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake comparatively, if you
>> don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust me). Seems
>> “rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless perhaps if the
>> problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So does ibogaine
>> differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal anyway?
>> Respectfully-bb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> /]=——————————————————————-
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>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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>> –=[/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=——————————————————————–
> -=[\
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>
> \]=——————————————————————–
> -=[/
>
>
>
If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble.

–Sappho

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 9:37:32 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Sent: 28 March 2005 13:59
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Hi Howard,

Yes, Peter’s paper http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/cohen.addiction.html is
interesting. In many ways quite a stunning bit of writing and
theorizing. He
shows the root of how the idea of “addiction” arose, that it’s coming
from
the Reformation and the new post-religious concept of “individualism.”
But
somewhere, for me, he loses it a bit by being so rabidly
deterministic. He
writes….

… “It is, of course, a fiction that individual persons steer
themselves,
as if an inner compass were installed in each of us. Our ‘personal’
steering
is a socially developed, relational and cultural ability that allows a
few
variations, although for us it seems as if this variation constitutes
the
summit of individuality. The steering forces that shape men and move
them in
relation to each other (history, role, climate, economic conditions,
etc.)
are so inherent to location, cultures of upbringing and period in
which a
person develops, that the imprints they make determine human beings at
least
as much and probably much more than the differences between them.
True, no
two waves in the sea are the same, but how important are these
differences
to understand the phenomenon of waves?”….(Is the addiction doctor the
voodoo priest of Western man? – P. Cohen, 2000.)

This guy is like seriously deterministic. He uses his utter belief in
rational determinism to bludgeon and ridicule the business of addiction
treatment making of it pure voodoo and this seems to be the basis of
his
whole stance on drugs.

Personally, I’m not convinced. It’s too one-sided. His belief that
Determinism is Truth and all other viewpoints need to be ridiculed is
so
extreme that, to me, it borders on a religious frenzy, precisely the
thing
he says he wants to get rid of. I mean, even like totally walled-in,
logic-worshipping, stuck-in-their-head, peer-reviewed total scientists
aren’t THAT deterministic. They see there are two sides minimum to
every
argument.

Personally, I think he’s just using this whole deal as an excuse to
put out
a prejudiced viewpoint.

Nick

peter has been accused of atheism and of idealism, two rather opposing
philosophies.
now he is supposed to be totally deterministic. that´s not based on
evidence, either. he just states that the way people act is partly,
probably mostly, conditioned (and he doesn´t write “totally
determined”) by their enviroment.

and nick, how do you conclude that peter thinks all other viewpoints
need to be ridiculed?

ekki, the rational one 🙂

Hi Ekki,

Yes, you’re right. I am going a bit far. But, he does write….

….. “It is, of course, a fiction that individual persons steer themselves,
as if an inner compass were installed in each of us. Our ‘personal’ steering
is a socially developed, relational and cultural ability that allows a few
variations, although for us it seems as if this variation constitutes the
summit of individuality.”….

I mean, that seems like total determinism to me. I don’t see “partially” or
“probably” in there or anywhere else in this piece. Sounds like pure
determinism to me, all the factors he’s relating are pre-existing, and
that’s determinism, as defined. And, he underpins it with this “It is, OF
COURSE, a fiction….” Like “of course”?! As though acceptance of
determinism as the governing principle of the universe was commonly held.
Which it isn’t. Personally, I’m determinist, but it’s nonsense to say there
aren’t other schools of thought also highly accepted.

And in this whole “of course” thing I see the ridicule too. Like it’s a
foregone conclusion to him that this is the way the universe is and anything
else is bullshit. I pick up this underlying sense of ridicule for “the
bewilderment that is felt in our middle class culture”; or “Modern man needs
the concept of ‘addiction’, and its evils, as Mediaeval men needed the devil
or the heretic.” It’s as though there is something “stupid” in what “modern
man” or “our middle class culture” is doing. Maybe it’s just me but it
sounds like ridicule.

OK, so I’m picking and choosing bits of his piece to lay into. It’s not as
good as proper debating. But I just don’t buy this guy’s position, that’s a
gut feeling. I think he started out with some agenda against the middle
classes, modern man, religion, Dutch Calvanism, whatever, then identified
with addicts as a similarly down-trodden group, and then just cobbled
together this whole pseudo-humanist perspective he’s pushing from a load of
post-modern stuff that was floating past at the time. I’m not convinced of
the purity of his motivations. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s where I am.

Nick

PS – BTW, I don’t buy that atheism, idealism or determinism are conflicting,
but can’t bring myself to think about this stuff so much.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 7:58:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Yes, Peter’s paper http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/cohen.addiction.html is
interesting. In many ways quite a stunning bit of writing and theorizing. He
shows the root of how the idea of “addiction” arose, that it’s coming from
the Reformation and the new post-religious concept of “individualism.” But
somewhere, for me, he loses it a bit by being so rabidly deterministic. He
writes….

… “It is, of course, a fiction that individual persons steer themselves,
as if an inner compass were installed in each of us. Our ‘personal’ steering
is a socially developed, relational and cultural ability that allows a few
variations, although for us it seems as if this variation constitutes the
summit of individuality. The steering forces that shape men and move them in
relation to each other (history, role, climate, economic conditions, etc.)
are so inherent to location, cultures of upbringing and period in which a
person develops, that the imprints they make determine human beings at least
as much and probably much more than the differences between them. True, no
two waves in the sea are the same, but how important are these differences
to understand the phenomenon of waves?”….(Is the addiction doctor the
voodoo priest of Western man? – P. Cohen, 2000.)

This guy is like seriously deterministic. He uses his utter belief in
rational determinism to bludgeon and ridicule the business of addiction
treatment making of it pure voodoo and this seems to be the basis of his
whole stance on drugs.

Personally, I’m not convinced. It’s too one-sided. His belief that
Determinism is Truth and all other viewpoints need to be ridiculed is so
extreme that, to me, it borders on a religious frenzy, precisely the thing
he says he wants to get rid of. I mean, even like totally walled-in,
logic-worshipping, stuck-in-their-head, peer-reviewed total scientists
aren’t THAT deterministic. They see there are two sides minimum to every
argument.

Personally, I think he’s just using this whole deal as an excuse to put out
a prejudiced viewpoint.

Nick

peter has been accused of atheism and of idealism, two rather opposing philosophies.
now he is supposed to be totally deterministic. that´s not based on evidence, either. he just states that the way people act is partly, probably mostly, conditioned (and he doesn´t write “totally determined”) by their enviroment.

and nick, how do you conclude that peter thinks all other viewpoints need to be ridiculed?

ekki, the rational one 🙂

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 6:42:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 27 March 2005 22:12
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

In a message dated 3/27/05 11:38:48 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Thus I would like to ask you, assuming my understanding of your thesis
is correct, if you could explain a little further how you create
from your
reasoning a negative attribution to the concept of “addiction,” and other
ideas such as “voodoo priests” and the like. Are you proposing a
different
way for our experience of selfhood to actualize? Or would you
dispute that
consciousness needs any organizing principle at all? BTW, I also battle
with these ideas, and a seeming innate need within to “make
things better.”
I am not seeking merely to challenge you or put your ideas down.

Hi Nick,

I just want to comment as you may be, that “voodoo priests”
carries as much
bias as “addiction”.  Both reflect an inherrent condemnation of
the individuals
so identified.

Howard

Hi Howard,

Yes, Peter’s paper http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/cohen.addiction.html is
interesting. In many ways quite a stunning bit of writing and theorizing. He
shows the root of how the idea of “addiction” arose, that it’s coming from
the Reformation and the new post-religious concept of “individualism.” But
somewhere, for me, he loses it a bit by being so rabidly deterministic. He
writes….

… “It is, of course, a fiction that individual persons steer themselves,
as if an inner compass were installed in each of us. Our ‘personal’ steering
is a socially developed, relational and cultural ability that allows a few
variations, although for us it seems as if this variation constitutes the
summit of individuality. The steering forces that shape men and move them in
relation to each other (history, role, climate, economic conditions, etc.)
are so inherent to location, cultures of upbringing and period in which a
person develops, that the imprints they make determine human beings at least
as much and probably much more than the differences between them. True, no
two waves in the sea are the same, but how important are these differences
to understand the phenomenon of waves?”….(Is the addiction doctor the
voodoo priest of Western man? – P. Cohen, 2000.)

This guy is like seriously deterministic. He uses his utter belief in
rational determinism to bludgeon and ridicule the business of addiction
treatment making of it pure voodoo and this seems to be the basis of his
whole stance on drugs.

Personally, I’m not convinced. It’s too one-sided. His belief that
Determinism is Truth and all other viewpoints need to be ridiculed is so
extreme that, to me, it borders on a religious frenzy, precisely the thing
he says he wants to get rid of. I mean, even like totally walled-in,
logic-worshipping, stuck-in-their-head, peer-reviewed total scientists
aren’t THAT deterministic. They see there are two sides minimum to every
argument.

Personally, I think he’s just using this whole deal as an excuse to put out
a prejudiced viewpoint.

Nick

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 6:30:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, cool with me, I’d like to see any help with keeping people in a position of authority from slagging off about Ibogaine. Peter has a Ph.D., people listen to what he has to say. I think it is irresponsible for anyone looking to help ………. what is the politically correct word to use here……………. drug users, addicts, junkies, whores, whatever the right word is for today, to be pissing on something that really helps somebody to suffer less. And going through withdrawal is suffering believe me. I wish that we could put all this energy into getting Ibogaine to those who need it. Period. I hate the drug laws in the US. It puts us in a precarious position. Fuck Uncle Sam, I never listened to him anyway, and I hate that hat he wears.                        Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 6:12:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

Sorry if I’m confused. Thought you were comparing me to some guy you knew, he was too intelligent or something. Like roundabout way of trying to say something. Fuck, I hate that shit when people can’t be straight and just come out with some bullshit innuendo or something. So, if you weren’t laying that trip I apologise. Just me being paranoid, I guess. But anyway Peter isn’t calling ibogaine movement Voodoo Priest – that’s just a phrase he used for addiction doctors in a paper he wrote 5 years ago. Doubt if he’d even heard of ibogaine then. He’s not pissed off with me saying I feel like dragging people out of their houses sometimes, leastways he’s never mentioned this. What he IS pissed off about is the LANGUAGE people who use ibogaine use – they talk like medical people do. It’s about “addicts”, treating “addiction”, treating “dependence”, resolving the “issues underpinning addictive behaviour,” all this kind of stuff. THAT’s what pisses him off. We talk like the ENEMY. As he sees it. The man has no gripe with ibogaine itself. It’s just another drug to him.

And that is what we were discussing, or trying to. Is it possible to find common ground between the ibogaine guys and him so that Peter and his whole Cedro thing don’t have to take every opportunity to slag ibogaine off? This is what it’s about. Peace

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 28 March 2005 11:32
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

No dick, I mean dude, I have no inferiority complex about some Dr. I was trying to give you a complement ina round about way. Should have known you wouldn’t get it. What I was trying to say is Peter was calling The Ibogaine movement Voodoo Priest because of the bullshit you put out about chasing people around and pulling them out of the house and making them get clean.               Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 5:32:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No dick, I mean dude, I have no inferiority complex about some Dr. I was trying to give you a complement ina round about way. Should have known you wouldn’t get it. What I was trying to say is Peter was calling The Ibogaine movement Voodoo Priest because of the bullshit you put out about chasing people around and pulling them out of the house and making them get clean.               Randy

From: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 28, 2005 at 5:25:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Original Message —
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:30:59 EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Howard, you are on your game today. I have to say something here to Nick.

I’ve been watching this thing with Peter for a while now, and have come
to
some
conclusions. Or at least I have come to some irrational assumptions, or

whatever. Let me ask some questions here. Where is Peter located….. who
is the
loudest Ibogaine proponent in England…… where would Peter get the idea
that we
are Voodoo Priests wanting to drag people out of their houses and made clean?

Things that make you say what the fuck aint it? I’m sorry if I offend you,

acually I think that you are a very nessesary part of this whole growing
thing
that is going on with Ibogaine. I can tell that you care very deeply for

people, even to the point of pissing them off to help them. Problem is that
you
remind me of the guy who ran the program I went throug in 77 to 80. He was
a dick,
but he was way intellegent, and I still think about what he said to me then.

This debate has been very good for all involved, still I can’t see what

difference it makes. Maybe more will be revealed later, but right now it’s
getting
to be a bit of a drag. I know I had a hand in starting all this, but it
just

seemed like the thing to do at the time. Maybe someone smarter than me can

gather the facts, draw some conclusions, and lets get down to helping people
with
what we have learned from this.         Randy

Randy,

Don’t know if you’re pissed off with me or something. I just copied a mail
I wrote to Peter to the list in answer to something Lee wrote. I didn’t call
anyone a voodoo priest and when Peter used that phrase he wasn’t talking
about ibogaine. I was just interested in Peter’s view on drugs and asking
him for a bit of clarity. Sorry if it’s confusing.

About the whole debate with Peter and his stance on ibogaine and the language
people use to promote it, personally it interests me so I like to talk with
him. And if i have to use a few long words to discuss it with him, I’m ok
with that. If this brings up some trip for you that’s your issue. I’m not
going to stop doing it to panda to some kind of inferiority trip you carry
around or something, whatever it is. What are you saying – that you had a
doctor who you thought was intelligent and he put you down? And now this
situation reminds you of this? Man, you buy that shit it’s up to you. It’s
got fuck all to do with me.

Nick

___________________________________________________________

Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005.
Cheap flights – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/
Bargain holidays – http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] stabbing harm reduction in the back?
Date: March 28, 2005 at 12:23:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This bit appeared at the end of a column in the San Francisco papers
today, and made me mad enough to write a three page letter to the
columnists about their tone and ibogaine as one of the options for
treatment.    I’m very disappointed by the quoted doctor, as Haight
Ashbury Free Medical Clinic should be more accurate about the umbrella
term “harm reduction,” I would think, given its progressive roots in
treating hippies who couldn’t get a fair shake from Establishment
docs.

Crack’n up:
The folks down at the San Francisco Needle Exchange program have been
handing out an interesting little pamphlet — “Tips for Smoking and
Shooting Crack.”

It’s long on how to best use the drug, but very short on how to get
off it — and that omission has health officials seeing red.

The handy, one-page folded tip sheet, subtitled “Crack — the Drug
Named After a Part of Your A — ,” offers advice on:

— Smoking: “Use a glass or metal stem with mouthpiece. … Touch
flame to the pipe quickly, instead of holding it in place, move the
flame along the pipe to spread out the heat. … Let the pipe cool
down before you take another hit to prevent burning your lips. …
File down broken edges of stems . .. (and) change screens often, they
get brittle and break and then you could inhale bits — OUCH.”

— Shooting: “Have your sterile cooker … put crack and citric or
ascorbic acid (a pinch to a rock) in the cooker … add plenty of
water … smash and mix well. … Before injecting take the tie off.
Slowly push the plunger … and remember — don’t share rigs and use a
clean needle every time.”

— And finally: “Rotate your injection sites.”

The pamphlet also includes information on how to “take care of yourself.”

“Drink plenty of fluids … eat and sleep … take vitamins.”

What the pamphlet doesn’t have is any information on the dangers of
crack or how to stop using it.

“I have to say I’m kind of shocked,” said Dr. Darryl Inaba of the
Haight Ashbury Free Clinic, which administers the needle exchange
program.

“The pamphlet was part of what we call the ‘harm reduction program’ —
but the real harm here is using the drug, and I don’t think that was
properly addressed,” Inaba said.

“It was executed very poorly — we’re ordering it pulled immediately.”

Chronicle columnists Phillip Matier and Andrew Ross appear Sundays,
Mondays and Wednesdays. They can also be heard on KGO Radio on
Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. Phil Matier can be seen regularly
on KRON 4 News, and also on Sunday night at 9:30 on his own show, “4
the Record.” Got a tip? Call them at (415) 777-8815 or drop them an
e-mail at matierandross@sfchronicle.com.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/03/27/BAGDLBVFIC1.DTL
(scroll down to last item)

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NYC ibogaine forum presentations
Date: March 28, 2005 at 12:13:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do believe there is a funding issue involved as the sloppy weather
on the second day (Monday, also a holiday) kept attendance rather low
and the production “lost money” so to speak.   Is this the kind of
thing some folks on-list would be willing to support via a PayPal
donation?  I noticed MAPS has that option on their web-page.

— Rachel

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 27, 2005 at 6:47:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com> wrote:
so, I know this is nothing compared to what many of
you have gone
through with H, etc, , but I am trying to simply
stop taking Effexor

Hi Kiersten,

With the exception of Alcohol, Effexor & Friends are
at the top of my list as some of the most difficult to
kick.

When I talk to some people about kicking, (alcohol
and speed mostly), the main obsticle I run into is not
only being prescribed just one anti-dep, but 4 or 5
different ones at the same time.

I too would very much like info or links to info on
different ways to successfully kick effexor and
friends, ibogaine included, in what doses I wonder…

If low doses are effective for helping take edge
off a bit, is it good to do this before kicking the
main objective??

I would love to hear what the answers will be.

jb

Hey does Anyone have any experience with this?
http://www.mapinc.org/newscc/v05/n515/a04.html?397

Scientologists Will ‘Purify’ Drug Addicts – For UKP
$15,000
by Jamie Doward, (27 Mar 2005)

Observer United Kingdom
It boasts an 80 per cent success rate, the rock star
Beck is a fan, and schools are inviting the Narconon
centre into the classroom.  So why are some people
worried? Jamie Doward reports

You have a crack cocaine habit that costs you UKP1,500
a day, forcing you into prostitution.  Someone tells
you about a course that could you get off the drug,
without putting you on substitute medication, but it
costs UKP15,000.  What would you do – especially if
you found out the course was linked to the Church of
Scientology, the controversial creed that boasts John
Travolta and Tom Cruise as followers?

For Danielle Medford, 22, there was no debate.
Ravaged by crack, her body was close to shutdown.
Death was only weeks away.  Her family read about
Narconon on the internet and raised the cash to enrol
her as one of the drug rehabilitation programme’s
first British clients.

Danielle weighed just over seven stone when, she
walked through the doors of the 1920s mansion in a
quiet street in the Sussex town of St Leon ards on
Sea.  Seven weeks later, she weighs 10 stone, she is
off crack and about to go to Barbados on holiday.
When she returns, Danielle wants to work with
schoolchildren to warn them of the dangers of drugs.

‘The course teaches you that you can be anything you
want to be,’ Danielle says with a wide smile.  ‘I hit
the jackpot with Narconon.  I have a brand-new life.
I have a little girl and I neglected her, but not any
more.’

It was only later, as she was finishing her course,
that Danielle became aware of Narconon’s controversial
rep utation.  Its programme, which claims to have
helped ‘purify’ 300,000 people around the world, has
been attacked by mainstream drug experts alarmed at
the way Narconon dispenses massive amounts of vitamins
to its clients above recommended daily limits.  They
point out that Narconon’s claims that it has a success
rate of 80 per cent, are almost impossible to verify
independently, and express concern that the programme
is a recruiting ground for Scientology.

But it is clear that many people fervently believe in
the programme – which they can quit at any time – and,
like Danielle, have become evangelists for it.  Cheers
star Kirstie Alley is now a spokeswoman for the
organisation, which she credits with helping her ditch
her coke habit.  American cult musician Beck played a
Narconon fundraiser in Los Angeles last year.  He told
an interviewer last week: ‘The drug-rehabilitation
programmes have the highest success rate of any in the
world.’

When the St Leonards’ centre held an official opening
three weeks ago, the former manager of the Rolling
Stones, Andrew ‘Loog’ Oldham, a man who did more to
boost the coffers of Colombia’s drug barons than
practically anyone else in the world with his
unfettered cocaine consumption, flew in to praise
Narconon and to thank it for saving his life.

‘I had a rollercoaster of a ride with the Rolling
Stones for five years and then spent 30 years getting
over it,’ he said.  ‘The programme was an amazing
experience for me personally and also because of the
people I met on it.  It was a glorious seven weeks as
the acid came out first, followed by the coke,
morphine derivatives, inoculation poisions as well as_
all of the drugs of life.’

Impressed by such testimony, schools have started
inviting Narconon, a registered charity in the UK,
into their classrooms to warn pupils about drugs.
Students are given pamphlets with information about
the programme and a number to ring if they are worried
that someone is using drugs.

Local government is also hoping to pay for treatment
programmes at the 60-bed clinic.  When The Observer
became the first newspaper to be given access to the
clinic last week, two social services workers were
being given a tour of the building, once an asylum
detention centre.

Already the centre’s claims are having an impact on
other drug rehabilitation centres.  Several clients
interviewed by The Observer said they had opted for
Narconon over The Priory or Clouds – two of Britain’s
most famous rehab centres, whose claims at
successfully treating addictions are far more modest
than the new entrant.

Perhaps Narconon’s claims explain why it charges so
much.  The average course lasts three months and costs
UKP15,000.  But its clients believe it is a small
price to pay.

Ryan Jarvis, 27, developed such a cocaine and alcohol
habit that he could not hold down his carpentry job.
As his life collapsed around him, Ryan left his
partner and their child and fled to Marbella.  He blew
UKP18,000 on a seven-month orgy of drink and drugs
before his father lent him the cash for the Narconon
course.

Ryan, whose worn face belies his age, says: ‘UKP15,000
is not a lot of money.  Since I finished the course
eight weeks ago I haven’t got any problems.  I’m back
with my family and I have my life back.’

He admits he found parts of the course ‘weird’.
‘There was some stuff that wasn’t my cup of tea, but a
lot of it really helped me.  You get out of the course
what you put in.’

To the outsider, the entire programme must seem weird.
Founded in 1966 by William Benitez, an inmate of
Arizona State Prison, Narconon draws heavily on the
teachings of L.  Ron Hubbard, a science fiction writer
and the founder of Scientology.

Critics argue Narconon is merely a front for
Scientology.  Hubbard’s teachings and photos adorn the
centre’s walls and the language the staff use is
redolent of Scientologists.  Paul Dolan, the clinic’s
manager, admits he is a Scientologist and confirms
that the centre could not have opened if it had not
been for the generosity of members of the church.
However, he denied suggestions that the clinic’s
profits will be ploughed into Scientology and insisted
they will be invested in rolling the programme out
nationwide, starting with London, Manchester and
Glasgow centres.

Nevertheless, the overlap between the church and the
drug rehabilitation programme alarms Scientology’s
critics.  They point out that each Narconon client
must complete eight books based on Hubbard’s teachings
during their course, which is in three parts –
withdrawal, detoxification and education – and draws
on the Scientology founder’s beliefs about mental and
physical health.

During the withdrawal phase, which typically lasts
five to eight days, a client is put on a course of
vitamins, including huge doses of Niacin and B3, and
given ‘assists’ by staff – Scientology techniques
similar to massages which apparently soothe mental and
physical pain.  ‘Pretty much every other drug
rehabilitation course prescribes drugs.  We don’t,’
says Dolan, a former engineer in the gas industry.

Critics say there is no scientific basis for
Narconon’s programme and are alarmed at the amounts of
vitamins it prescribes.  Dolan dismisses the worries.
‘You could give the people in here up to 1,000 times
the recommended daily dose and it still wouldn’t be a
health threat, because the drugs they have been on
strip the vitamins out of the body.’

Claire Smith ( not her real name ), who says she was
admitted to the centre five weeks ago addicted to
morphine, heroin and crack, claims to be living proof
that addicts don’t need medication to help with their
withdrawal.  ‘I was so ill my body couldn’t take the
vitamins at first,’ she said.  ‘I’d been on methadone
before, but that didn’t work, my whole body just
ached.  But when I came out of the sauna I felt
great.’

The sauna holds almost mystical properties to those
who have completed the Narconon course.  Clients spend
about five hours a day ‘sweating out their toxins’ for
up to three weeks.  Jimmy Mulligan, 48, said he had
been an alcoholic for three decades.  ‘But when you
come out of the sauna for the last time you are free
of everything.’ Now sober, Jimmy’s only regret is that
his time on the course is ending.  ‘I’m not just
saying that, I really mean it.’

Upon arrival at a Narconon programme, all clients are
issued with a Hubbard pamphlet, The Way to Happiness,
A Common Sense Guide to Better Living .  ‘It is in
your power to point the way to a less dangerous and
happier life,’ is the opening maxim.  ‘Be temperate’
is another.  ‘Sex is a big step on the way to
happiness and joy.  There is nothing wrong with it, if
it is followed with faithfulness and decency,’ another
says.

The perfunctory writings are typical of Narconon
manuals.  Yet Narconon believes that Hubbard’s words
hold the key to whether their clients stay off drugs
or drink when they finish the course.  Clients are
encouraged to read dictionaries, not only to make sure
they grasp every word of the teachings, but also to
give them a feeling of empowerment.  ‘I learnt 400
words on my course, words like cognition,’ Danielle
says with pride.  ‘I’ve learnt more here than I learnt
in school.’

Armed with their new education, which also involves
working through problems with clay models and talking
to an ethics counsellor to help develop a moral code,
a Narconon client is deemed ready to face the world
without risk of falling back into addiction.

Many, however, do not seem to want to go very far.  Of
the 15 people who have completed the Narconon course
since the St Leonards’ clinic opened, five are now
working for the company.  Jimmy intends to sign up as
an employee when he finishes the programme.

Lucy Graham, 22, who says she was on the verge of
suicide because of binge drinking and bulimia, went
home to Swindon after the course.  ‘But I really
wanted to come back.  It’s made such a difference to
my life.  I’m now training to be a public relations
manager for Narconon.’

Narconon, it seems, may set its clients free, but they
don’t want to be free of Narconon.  As Hubbard writes:
‘The way to happiness is a high-speed road to those
who know where the edges are.’

To its believers, Narconon knows exactly where those
edges are.

How to beat an addiction

The 12 steps

Chiefly used by recovering alcoholics, 12 Steps
encourages addicts to admit they are powerless without
alcohol and that their lives have become unmanageable.
Through a mixture of prayer and meditation, addicts
improve their contact with God to gain the strength to
break free of their addiction.

The Thamkrabok monastery

The Thailand drug rehabilitation centre offers the
toughest recovery regime in the world.  The rock star
Pete Doherty visited the monastery in an attempt to
rid himself of his crack cocaine habit, but didn’t
last the course.  Addicts are put through a series of
bamboo floggings, prayers and manual labour which is
designed to cleanse them physically and mentally.

The Priory

The UK’s most famous rehab centre offers a range of
therapies for addicts, most of whom will have to pay
for its services.  A personalised addiction treatment
programme will cost around UKP25,000.

Acupuncture

The use of auricular ( ear ) acupuncture in treating
acute drug withdrawal began in Hong Kong in 1972.  Its
practical application in alcohol and drug treatment
evolved at New York City’s Lincoln Hospital during the
Seventies and is now used by 2,000 clinics worldwide.
Powered by MAPMAP posted-by: Derek

Pubdate: Sun, 27 Mar 2005
Source: Observer, The (UK)
Copyright: 2005 The Observer
Contact: letters@observer.co.uk
Website: http://www.observer.co.uk/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/315
Author: Jamie Doward
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/rehab.htm (Treatment)

and I every time I get down to two days without, I
become dizzy, the
white noise in my head gets turned up to eleven, and
I can’t stay
awake. I tried to go off a couple of weeks ago and
this happened, so
the doc gave me a low dose of prozac that I have
been on now for a
week, and her plan was that I could then quit the
Effexor cold. Now the
zaps are milder, but I can do nothing but sleep and
listen to white
noise and the world looks very black and I feel a
little crazy.

I had a dream last week that since I was going to
Florida that I should
go to the Caribbean to do an iboga ceremony. Is it
possible that iboga
can help me with this? What do you think?
thanks,
kiersten
On Mar 23, 2005, at 7:12 PM, Jasen Chamoun wrote:

Hey BB,

How you doing matey. My name is Jasen, I had been
(had,…WOW)
addicted to Methadone and heroin for 23 years.
Since the
age of 15 (first serious habit). I live in
Australia. I spoke to many
understanding people on the list for a few months
before going to
Amsterdam Holland to have the treatment with
Sara. I was on 60mg at
the time and also double and triple dosed a few
days
leading up to getting to Sara’s.

Sara gave me the “extract” Iboga. I was at Sara’s
for 27 days. The
“Iboga'” helped me in many ways, one of which was
to relieve
me of at least 85% of the withdrawals.

The good thing about Iboga’ is that it seems to
help with some of the
underlying reasons as to the addiction in the
first place, it did for
me anyway. It also seems to give you more
understanding and it filled
me with love,..love in very generous amounts. It
really was a
wonderfull medicine for me.

I am now going into my fourth month,…free of all
addiction and I am
loving it. The residual withdrawals for me stuck
with me for
quite a while,….but you know what,..it is not
like “hanging out” it
is like you know you are a little unwell,..like
you have the flu, and
you will get better. It gives you strength.

One very important thing is “aftercare”. Organise
yourself in a way
where you will not be around your old “using”
mates, and your
enviroment is different when you get home. Iboga
resets your life and
gives you the opportunity to take a different path
if you so
choose. It did for me.

If you have any questions, I am here for you, as
are many others. Be
well BB.

I am strong.

love,

Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: “bb”
<bbburtnick@webtv.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?

I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have
signed on in hopes of
discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from
methadone. Then of course
is
the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention
proper application.
But
first of all is the question of whether there is
any genuine value for
meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake
comparatively, if you
don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust
me). Seems
“rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping,
unless perhaps if the
problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life.
So does ibogaine
differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal
anyway?
Respectfully-bb

—————————————————————-

-=[/

If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble.

–Sappho
—————–=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 27, 2005 at 5:34:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey people,

so, I know this is nothing compared to what many of you have gone through with H, etc, , but I am trying to simply stop taking Effexor and I every time I get down to two days without, I become dizzy, the white noise in my head gets turned up to eleven, and I can’t stay awake. I tried to go off a couple of weeks ago and this happened, so the doc gave me a low dose of prozac that I have been on now for a week, and her plan was that I could then quit the Effexor cold. Now the zaps are milder, but I can do nothing but sleep and listen to white noise and the world looks very black and I feel a little crazy.

I had a dream last week that since I was going to Florida that I should go to the Caribbean to do an iboga ceremony. Is it possible that iboga can help me with this? What do you think?
thanks,
kiersten
On Mar 23, 2005, at 7:12 PM, Jasen Chamoun wrote:

Hey BB,

How you doing matey. My name is Jasen, I had been (had,…WOW) addicted to Methadone and heroin for 23 years. Since the
age of 15 (first serious habit). I live in Australia. I spoke to many understanding people on the list for a few months before going to
Amsterdam Holland to have the treatment with Sara. I was on 60mg at the time and also double and triple dosed a few days
leading up to getting to Sara’s.

Sara gave me the “extract” Iboga. I was at Sara’s for 27 days. The “Iboga'” helped me in many ways, one of which was to relieve
me of at least 85% of the withdrawals.

The good thing about Iboga’ is that it seems to help with some of the underlying reasons as to the addiction in the first place, it did for
me anyway. It also seems to give you more understanding and it filled me with love,..love in very generous amounts. It really was a
wonderfull medicine for me.

I am now going into my fourth month,…free of all addiction and I am loving it. The residual withdrawals for me stuck with me for
quite a while,….but you know what,..it is not like “hanging out” it is like you know you are a little unwell,..like you have the flu, and
you will get better. It gives you strength.

One very important thing is “aftercare”. Organise yourself in a way where you will not be around your old “using” mates, and your
enviroment is different when you get home. Iboga resets your life and gives you the opportunity to take a different path if you so
choose. It did for me.

If you have any questions, I am here for you, as are many others. Be well BB.

I am strong.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: “bb” <bbburtnick@webtv.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?

I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have signed on in hopes of
discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from methadone. Then of course is
the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention proper application. But
first of all is the question of whether there is any genuine value for
meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake comparatively, if you
don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust me). Seems
“rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless perhaps if the
problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So does ibogaine
differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal anyway?
Respectfully-bb

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble.

–Sappho

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 27, 2005 at 5:30:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, you are on your game today. I have to say something here to Nick. I’ve been watching this thing with Peter for a while now, and have come to some conclusions. Or at least I have come to some irrational assumptions, or whatever. Let me ask some questions here. Where is Peter located….. who is the loudest Ibogaine proponent in England…… where would Peter get the idea that we are Voodoo Priests wanting to drag people out of their houses and made clean? Things that make you say what the fuck aint it? I’m sorry if I offend you, acually I think that you are a very nessesary part of this whole growing thing that is going on with Ibogaine. I can tell that you care very deeply for people, even to the point of pissing them off to help them. Problem is that you remind me of the guy who ran the program I went throug in 77 to 80. He was a dick, but he was way intellegent, and I still think about what he said to me then. This debate has been very good for all involved, still I can’t see what difference it makes. Maybe more will be revealed later, but right now it’s getting to be a bit of a drag. I know I had a hand in starting all this, but it just seemed like the thing to do at the time. Maybe someone smarter than me can gather the facts, draw some conclusions, and lets get down to helping people with what we have learned from this.         Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 27, 2005 at 4:11:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/27/05 11:38:48 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Thus I would like to ask you, assuming my understanding of your thesis
is correct, if you could explain a little further how you create from your
reasoning a negative attribution to the concept of “addiction,” and other
ideas such as “voodoo priests” and the like. Are you proposing a different
way for our experience of selfhood to actualize? Or would you dispute that
consciousness needs any organizing principle at all? BTW, I also battle
with these ideas, and a seeming innate need within to “make things better.”
I am not seeking merely to challenge you or put your ideas down.

Hi Nick,

I just want to comment as you may be, that “voodoo priests” carries as much
bias as “addiction”.  Both reflect an inherrent condemnation of the individuals
so identified.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 27, 2005 at 4:02:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/27/05 10:58:35 AM, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Why is this aspect of treating the underlying disease (if one exists) via
eboga spirituality something to be undermined or played down? Are you willing
to meet halfway and agree that ibogaine has perhaps revolutionary properties
to deal with underlying disease, if on the other hand the ibo camp can
change its language to describe ibogaine as an addiction interruptor and
not a cure for addiction?

Hi Lee,

Among the language that I believe Peter objects to is “addiction” and
basically I agree with him.  The language itself is a condemnation of the individual
and their associated learned behavior.  In a perfect world I would want the
world rid of the bias imposed by  prohibitionism and to have ibogaine available.
As it is, we have a lot of bias and not much ibogaine.

Howard

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 27, 2005 at 11:37:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 27 March 2005 16:58
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Hi Nick,

Thanks for taking the time to explain this one to me. I wrote a long reply to your email but decided not to post it. I am going to wait a while longer until my head is clearer on my motives. Sometimes I have a strong reaction to something and I would rather understand the reaction than the ideas it puts in my head. Love is the most important thing – is it not?

Lee

Hi Lee,

I used to think Love was the most important thing, but these days I try and go more for awareness. That’s just me. BTW, I am also still busy with Peter and his ideas. I read an interesting article of his called “Is the addiction doctor the voodoo priest of Western man?”, online at http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/cohen.addiction.html, and wrote him a question to try and grasp more where he’s coming from.

Nick

Dear Peter,
I hope you won’t mind me writing to you again. I was reading your fascinating article “Is the addiction doctor the voodoo priest of Western man?” in an attempt to gain a deeper insight into your views on the idea of addiction, and wanted to ask you for a little clarification.
One thing that struck me was your observation that the concept of “individuality,” that nowadays exerts so much influence upon human culture, appears to have arisen around the time of the Reformation in sixteenth century Europe. From this, as I understand it, you trace the arrival of the concept of “addiction” as an inevitable by-product of this development, arising through the need of the psyche that is programmed to seek individuality to marginalize and reject those entities which appear to threaten the experience of individuality. As I see it, and I may be wrong, this is the central thrust of your thesis.
What intrigued was the way in which you appeared to attribute a moral tone to this development, that you seemed to assign to this arising shift in how we view ourselves certain negative implications. I say this as it strikes me that our whole experience of having a personal existence, of life “happening to us,” may be constructed by the mind in many ways, whether purely individual or culturally influenced; whether having overtly dualistic or religious aspects or not; whether promising “development” or staticity, and that all one can say about this process of attribution is that, ultimately, it is entirely autonomous, that it is all simply arising without prejudice.
Thus I would like to ask you, assuming my understanding of your thesis is correct, if you could explain a little further how you create from your reasoning a negative attribution to the concept of “addiction,” and other ideas such as “voodoo priests” and the like. Are you proposing a different way for our experience of selfhood to actualize? Or would you dispute that consciousness needs any organizing principle at all? BTW, I also battle with these ideas, and a seeming innate need within to “make things better.” I am not seeking merely to challenge you or put your ideas down.
Grateful if you can spare the time to explain more of your ideas to me or point me to a source that would do the same. I will happily not copy any replies you might make to any discussion lists or other individuals, unless you ok this.
Regards
Nick Sandberg
From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 27, 2005 at 11:00:59 AM EST
To: Peter Cohen <cohen.cedro@uva.nl>
Cc: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peter,
Thanks for your reply.
I am going to go back over your material in time and try and seperate my reaction to it from the issues.
Hopefully I will get to a reasonable point of understanding and appreciate better what you stand for and the work you do.
In the meantime I wish you well and thank you for the time you have taken.
Lee

Peter Cohen <cohen.cedro@uva.nl> wrote:
Lee, thanks for taking the trouble and your reaction.
But, as I think I can not make my position clearer than I did, time is up.
Best
pc

At 12:49 +0000 23-03-2005, Lee Albert wrote:
Hi Peter,

Having had such a strong reaction to your views and not wishing to be a bigot I feel obliged to try and understand your position a little better. I hope you will be good enough to read what I have wrote here as I have given it a little thought. I guess if it were not for the spiritual aspects of the discussion I would not have ever got into this in the first place but here goes.

Disease vs Dependency

It seems to me that what you are arguing is that the label of addiction as disease as opposed to the label of addiction as dependency, feeds into the “enemy” camps view that drugs should be outlawed as they support a disease and are a disease.

By describing drug addiction as a straightforward physical dependence we cease to associate the label of diseased to someone who is drug dependent. (Of course the person who is dependent may have underlying diseases (psycho-spiritual for example) which keeps the dependence in place. You accept that I believe. Of course they theoretically may not.)

Thus in fighting for the right to take drugs we are fighting not to promote a disease but to give people choice when we remove the label of disease.

I like that manner of seeing things as it removes a lot of stigma attached to drug taking and allows those who are not suffering from an addiction to not be labeled diseased.

Thus it would be important to you that the ibo-camp revise their language of addiction as disease, and instead refer to addiction as dependence, as ibogaine is growing in strength and popularity and therefore a popularised disease model could undermine your arguments for drug liberalisation.

Ibogaine as Cure or Ibogaine as Addiction Interruptor

Within your view ibogaine can then be considered a tool for addition interruption but the problem comes in for you (as I see it) when ibogaine advocates describe their work as a cure for addiction. To remain within your viewpoint they should describe it as addiction interruption.

Ibogaine as Addiction Interruption

If we use this description of ibogaine then the question of its spirituality becomes an awkward issue. What point does it serve? If it is curing something other than addiction as dependency then that suggests a disease. What is the disease? If its not the dependency then what is it?

Ok, I agree it is not the dependency. I have many times stated that healing can involve a relapse into dependence but that that should not be seen as a failure to heal but simply a step along the way – if your aim is to heal the underlying issues supporting the dependence which will emerge with verocity from time to time. (Some argue that it can be purely genetic.)

Conclusion

We seem to both agree that the problem is not the addiction as such but what lies behind or supports it, i.e. addiction is not the disease.

In that case I would say we could label ibogaine as an addiction interruptor which also opens the door to a psycho-spiritual realm which allows the taker to examine & heal with the right intention the underlying reasons why they are unable to simply taper off their dependence as you suggest and become drug free if that is what they wish.

Saying that as things stand the current language of the ibo-camp appears to be the elimination of drugs as opposed to the liberalisation of drug policies which you advocate.

Question:

Why is this aspect of treating the underlying disease (if one exists) via eboga spirituality something to be undermined or played down? Are you willing to meet halfway and agree that ibogaine has perhaps revolutionary properties to deal with underlying disease, if on the other hand the ibo camp can change its language to describe ibogaine as an addiction interruptor and not a cure for addiction?

With love,

Lee

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html


————————————————-
Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
University of Amsterdam

Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands

mail address: postbox  94208
1090 GE Amsterdam
email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
fax +31-20-525 4317

World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
languages)

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 27, 2005 at 10:57:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick,

Thanks for taking the time to explain this one to me. I wrote a long reply to your email but decided not to post it. I am going to wait a while longer until my head is clearer on my motives. Sometimes I have a strong reaction to something and I would rather understand the reaction than the ideas it puts in my head. Love is the most important thing – is it not?

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 23 March 2005 13:31
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Hi Peter,

Having had such a strong reaction to your views and not wishing to be a bigot I feel obliged to try and understand your position a little better. I hope you will be good enough to read what I have wrote here as I have given it a little thought. I guess if it were not for the spiritual aspects of the discussion I would not have ever got into this in the first place but here goes.

Disease vs Dependency

It seems to me that what you are arguing is that the label of addiction as disease as opposed to the label of addiction as dependency, feeds into the “enemy” camps view that drugs should be outlawed as they support a disease and are a disease.

By describing drug addiction as a straightforward physical dependence we cease to associate the label of diseased to someone who is drug dependent. (Of course the person who is dependent may have underlying diseases (psycho-spiritual for example) which keeps the dependence in place. You accept that I believe. Of course they theoretically may not.)

Hey Lee,

Though it’s a bit crazy to start debating over what Peter’s views MIGHT be, I think what he was saying was that the whole concept of addiction or dependency ITSELF is invalid. These are just medical labels, given by bigots, to perfectly healthy individuals merely altering their daily consciousness through use of substances as is their inalienable right as free people. The whole concept of addiction or dependence is thus invalid.

What you or I might label “dependency” I think he would consider simply “learned behaviour,” no different from any other learned behaviour, drug-oriented or otherwise. There’s quite a few people out there who believe this. It’s a good way of looking things, I think.

If it’s so then you need to rewrite this piece avoiding terms like “dependency.” Could be interesting! (Of course, the above might not be his view.)

Where we got to, in debating, was Howard pointing out that the language used by many ibogaine proponents, rooted in the medical phraseology of “addiction” that Peter so resents, arose originally from the action of bringing greater awareness of ibogaine’s dependence-breaking characteristics to the medical community; that you had to use their language to talk to them. At this point Dr Cohen broke off communications, stating to me, seemingly of Howard’s view, that it was the “language of the medical entrepreneur within a deeply and devout prohibitionist system.” Really a shame the debate didn’t continue, as it is interesting.

I guess the central questions for me are, “Is it wrong to bring ibogaine to the market to treat a condition the acceptance of the existence of which may exacerbate the condition itself? Which is truly best, to destroy the mindset that labels some people as dependent, or to treat dependence?”

Nick

Thus in fighting for the right to take drugs we are fighting not to promote a disease but to give people choice when we remove the label of disease.

I like that manner of seeing things as it removes a lot of stigma attached to drug taking and allows those who are not suffering from an addiction to not be labeled diseased.

Thus it would be important to you that the ibo-camp revise their language of addiction as disease, and instead refer to addiction as dependence, as ibogaine is growing in strength and popularity and therefore a popularised disease model could undermine your arguments for drug liberalisation.

Ibogaine as Cure or Ibogaine as Addiction Interruptor

Within your view ibogaine can then be considered a tool for addition interruption but the problem comes in for you (as I see it) when ibogaine advocates describe their work as a cure for addiction. To remain within your viewpoint they should describe it as addiction interruption.

Ibogaine as Addiction Interruption

If we use this description of ibogaine then the question of its spirituality becomes an awkward issue. What point does it serve? If it is curing something other than addiction as dependency then that suggests a disease. What is the disease? If its not the dependency then what is it?

Ok, I agree it is not the dependency. I have many times stated that healing can involve a relapse into dependence but that that should not be seen as a failure to heal but simply a step along the way – if your aim is to heal the underlying issues supporting the dependence which will emerge with verocity from time to time. (Some argue that it can be purely genetic.)

Conclusion

We seem to both agree that the problem is not the addiction as such but what lies behind or supports it, i.e. addiction is not the disease.

In that case I would say we could label ibogaine as an addiction interruptor which also opens the door to a psycho-spiritual realm which allows the taker to examine & heal with the right intention the underlying reasons why they are unable to simply taper off their dependence as you suggest and become drug free if that is what they wish.

Saying that as things stand the current language of the ibo-camp appears to be the elimination of drugs as opposed to the liberalisation of drug policies which you advocate.

Question:

Why is this aspect of treating the underlying disease (if one exists) via eboga spirituality something to be undermined or played down? Are you willing to meet halfway and agree that ibogaine has perhaps revolutionary properties to deal with underlying disease, if on the other hand the ibo camp can change its language to describe ibogaine as an addiction interruptor and not a cure for addiction?

With love,

Lee

PS I sent this email to Peter seperately.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] query from TIMES-man
Date: March 26, 2005 at 2:20:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 25, 2005, at 5:25 PM, jon wrote:

Well, it’s important to keep in mind that methadone itself is a very
useful pharmacotherapy. That is, there isn’t anything wrong with
methadone’s effects as a drug, its long half-life makes it an ideal
substitution therapy.

The problems with methadone arise from the way that it’s administered,
especially in the United States. By this I’m referring to the fact that it
can only be given by designated methadone clinics, and these clinics
typically enact policies that are counterproductive; such as prescribing
doses well below what would be effective, requiring patients to come every
day to receive their medicine, requiring clean urine screens, etc.

The main advantage that buprenorphine has over methadone isn’t anything
related to the pharmacological effects of either drug, but rather simply
that buprenorphine has been approved for prescription by general
physicians.
Physicians tend to have somewhat more realistic expectations of their
patients that methadone clinics do, and so patient compliance is improved,
which can lead to improved outcomes.

If you look at the two drugs solely by virute of their chemical
properties, some patients will react to one better than the other, just as
some people suffering from depression will respond better to Paxil than
Prozac and vice versa, or as some people suffering from a sprained ankle
will respond to Advil better than Tylenol and vice versa. Niether is a
“better drug” than the other, and both should be available treatment
options due to the variance of the patient populations.

As far as trends go, at least in the United States, both methadone and
buprenorphine are highly underutilized. Ideally, we will see an increase
in use of both drugs, because at the moment, most people who would benefit
from substitution therapy aren’t getting either. This is largely a result
of the politicalization of the “drug problem”, politicians fear looking
“soft on drugs”, even when those measures that are considered by some to
be “soft on drugs” (such as substitution therapy, needle exchanges, etc)
are the very measures that have been consistently shown to be of the
greatest benefit to public health. We can only hope that in the future
science will dictate more solutions than the whims of politicians.

Jon Freedlander, MA Cand
Towson University
Baltimore, MD

This is a good reply, but I was hoping some folks on the list who’d personally experienced both bupe and methadone could fill Anahad in on the difference in the way they FEEL, and the difference of living with each.

Dana/cnw

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (WAY OT) Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] Soft tissue found inside T. Rex fossil startles researchers
Date: March 26, 2005 at 9:15:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
This is totally and completely off topic, but it’s just so damned cool I had to pass it on. Thanks to Jules for bringing this to my attention, as I’m mentioning it in the forward to my current book project

(which btw Jules, you should be getting in touch with me about very sooner than later, no? Or am I misremembering, and what I have now, the A Brief History of Ekab, is your final submission?)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Newsroom-l” <newsroom-l@NETSPACE.ORG>
To: <NEWSROOM-L@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 11:07 AM
Subject: [NEWSROOM-L] Soft tissue found inside T. Rex fossil startles researchers

<http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-tyranno25mar25,0,7641410.story?coll=la-home-headlines>
THE NATION
Soft Tissue Discovered in Bone of a Dinosaur
Intact after 70 million years, bits of a T. rex’s hind leg startle and
intrigue researchers.
By Robert Lee Hotz
Times Staff Writer

March 25, 2005

[Excerpts]

In bone blasted from Montana sandstone, fossil hunters for the first
time have discovered the microscopic soft tissue of a Tyrannosaurus rex,
preserved almost unaltered inside a bone since the dinosaur died 70
million years ago, scientists announced Thursday.

Scientists at North Carolina State University and at Montana State
University’s Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman found brownish oblong
cells, elastic threads of veins and pliable dabs of red bone marrow in
the core of a stout hind leg, the researchers reported in the journal
Science.

The translucent vessels were so elastic that when one was stretched out
and then released, it snapped back like a rubber band.

“To my knowledge, preservation to this extent has not been noted in
dinosaurs before,” said Mary H. Schweitzer, a paleontologist at North
Carolina State University in Raleigh.

“The tissues are still soft,” said Schweitzer, who led the research
team. “The microstructures that look like cells are preserved in every way.”

Under a scanning electron microscope, these dinosaur tissues — minute
remains of the mightiest of Earth’s ancient carnivores — were “virtually
identical” to those of a modern ostrich.

If confirmed by other researchers, the find could force scientists to
reconsider how all fossils are formed.

Until now, scientists have believed that bones fossilized when minerals
gradually replaced organic material. Under current theories, organic
molecules should not last more than 100,000 years.

“Our theories don’t allow for this,” Schweitzer said.


JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764 77501-Cancun Q. Roo Mexico
Mad Laughter, Fragments of a Life in Progress
Now available at http://www.lulu.com/jules

Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/blog

NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc.   http://www.lsoft.com

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FYI
Date: March 26, 2005 at 7:33:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Methadone=barless prison.  Doctors have the audacity to tell patients they can be free from methadone in a  reletively short time while their statics show a complete diffent picture.  Methadone is a vicious cycle of going up and down and using everything in between.

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: anahad@nytimes.com CC: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: [Ibogaine] FYI Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:50:47 -0800 (PST) Hello there, Unfortunately, i don’t think you should hold your breath regarding The demise of Methadone clinics.. It is a system designed to fail (the opiate addict) and so ensures the longevity and prosperity of the providers (and, of course, the pharmaceutical industry) Having been on Methadone for over 10 years (though now off thank G-d) i am well qualified to make this , if i might say, bold and accurate assessment..Easily, eight out of ten “clients” of methadone maintenance programs do not reach the purported goal of their application- abstinence from (not only) heroin,..and although they might not readily admit-the majority of methadone programs are completely tolerant of poly-substance abuse by their patients-something they are unequivically aware of as they all conduct regular weekly urinalysis tests. The potential for arresting opiate (and other drug) dependance through treatments (ibogaine in particular) is something that clinics are conscious of, and, at best, encouraging interested clients to pursue. MY last stand with methadone was at a NYC program which, to my benefit, actually helped to facilitate my ibogaine treatment.. and they did this, obviously, because (besides being tired of me) the availability of ibogaine treatments in no way posed a threat to their seemingly fixed place in our world. While i didn’t cease my substance abuse immediately after my treatment, i strongly bear testimony to the incredulous power of Ibogaine to interrupt acute withdrawl (not to mention it’s other invaluable properties)…MArcus L. Israel e-mail:vesch69@aol.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FYI
Date: March 26, 2005 at 6:50:47 PM EST
To: anahad@nytimes.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello there,
Unfortunately, i don’t think you should hold your
breath regarding The demise of Methadone clinics..
It is a system designed to fail (the opiate addict)
and so ensures the longevity and prosperity of the
providers (and, of course, the pharmaceutical
industry)
Having been on Methadone for over 10 years (though now
off thank G-d) i am well qualified to make this , if i
might say, bold and accurate assessment..Easily, eight
out of ten “clients” of methadone maintenance programs
do not reach the purported goal of their application-
abstinence from (not only) heroin,..and although they
might not readily admit-the majority of methadone
programs are completely tolerant of poly-substance
abuse by their patients-something they are
unequivically aware of as they all conduct regular
weekly urinalysis tests.
The potential for arresting opiate (and other drug)
dependance through treatments (ibogaine in particular)

is something that clinics are conscious of, and, at
best, encouraging interested clients to pursue.  MY
last stand with methadone was at a NYC program which,
to my benefit, actually helped to facilitate my
ibogaine treatment.. and they did this, obviously,
because (besides being tired of me) the availability
of ibogaine treatments in no way posed a threat to
their seemingly fixed place in our world.
While i didn’t cease my substance abuse immediately
after my treatment, i strongly bear testimony to the
incredulous power of Ibogaine to interrupt acute
withdrawl (not to mention it’s other invaluable
properties)…MArcus L. Israel
e-mail:vesch69@aol.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] meth = meth
Date: March 25, 2005 at 10:22:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this may have been addressed before. I appologize if it has…

in my circles Meth = methamphetine.

HOWEVER

My ex is enrolled in a Meth = methadone program

In SF, many of us call methamphetamine CRACK, even though crack is something different!

Terms, terms terms

My request is to ask people to spell it out (Methadone, Methamphetamine, Crack cocaine) in subject titles. It would help me find threads that are specifically pertinent to my own issues.

As one who is challenged by poor memory and attention, I would really appreciate it.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] query from TIMES-man
Date: March 25, 2005 at 5:25:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: anahad@nytimes.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, it’s important to keep in mind that methadone itself is a very
useful pharmacotherapy. That is, there isn’t anything wrong with
methadone’s effects as a drug, its long half-life makes it an ideal
substitution therapy.

The problems with methadone arise from the way that it’s administered,
especially in the United States. By this I’m referring to the fact that it
can only be given by designated methadone clinics, and these clinics
typically enact policies that are counterproductive; such as prescribing
doses well below what would be effective, requiring patients to come every
day to receive their medicine, requiring clean urine screens, etc.

The main advantage that buprenorphine has over methadone isn’t anything
related to the pharmacological effects of either drug, but rather simply
that buprenorphine has been approved for prescription by general
physicians.
Physicians tend to have somewhat more realistic expectations of their
patients that methadone clinics do, and so patient compliance is improved,
which can lead to improved outcomes.

If you look at the two drugs solely by virute of their chemical
properties, some patients will react to one better than the other, just as
some people suffering from depression will respond better to Paxil than
Prozac and vice versa, or as some people suffering from a sprained ankle
will respond to Advil better than Tylenol and vice versa. Niether is a
“better drug” than the other, and both should be available treatment
options due to the variance of the patient populations.

As far as trends go, at least in the United States, both methadone and
buprenorphine are highly underutilized. Ideally, we will see an increase
in use of both drugs, because at the moment, most people who would benefit
from substitution therapy aren’t getting either. This is largely a result
of the politicalization of the “drug problem”, politicians fear looking
“soft on drugs”, even when those measures that are considered by some to
be “soft on drugs” (such as substitution therapy, needle exchanges, etc)
are the very measures that have been consistently shown to be of the
greatest benefit to public health. We can only hope that in the future
science will dictate more solutions than the whims of politicians.

Jon Freedlander, MA Cand
Towson University
Baltimore, MD

I’m posting this response by Anahad O’Connor of the New York Times in
hopes that some of you with personal experience can better answer  his
question than I. I started corresponding with him after his article in
the Science Times repeated the outdated view of dopamine as reward
instead of craving, hoping that I could get a whole science section
piece on the new science involving MGlur5, and Glick’s
habenulo-perduncular pathway, etc. But he’s moving to the Metro section
instead, and I fear would only write some hysteria-generating piece on
underground ibogaine treatments–

anahad@nytimes.com wrote:
i wonder what the fate of methadone is now. if people are slowly
turning to ibogaine, and buprenorphine is now being prescribed widely,
then shouldn’t methadone clinics be on the way out? or at least the
number of people on it should be declining. do you know if there’s any
sort of trend emerging here?

I don’t think bup is a piece of cake either. You should reply to list,
but cc him at the same time, a la P.C.

Dana/cnw

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Iboga legalization
Date: March 25, 2005 at 5:20:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 24, 2005, at 8:47 PM, Carlton B wrote:

Just a question… what is currently being done to legalize iboga in the US?   Is there any sort of legal fund or political action group undertaking any activism in this regard?

Cures not Wars. That’s us. I’m lobbying Congress. Call me at 212-677-4899.

Dana/cnw

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Iboga legalization
Date: March 25, 2005 at 5:00:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I understand that FDA testing was taking place in the early 1990’s until
someone died.  Does anyone know what happened with that?  Was the person
already in poor health, or is ibogaine toxic in certain situations or
combinations?

The FDA Phase I trials ended due to lack of funding, not because of
ibogaine-related deaths (though there have been several recorded). I
believe funding has been secured to begin the trials again, but I’m not
sure when that’s supposed to happen.

Ibogaine is contraindicated for people with heart problems, and some liver
problems, due to an increased risk of fatality in these populations. In
general, ibogaine treatment is safer than many conventional medical
treatments, but that doesn’t mean it’s without risk. As far as I know,
there have been somewhere between 5 and 10 deaths related to ibogaine,
though not all of those were conclusively because of the ibogaine.

when speaking of ibogaine related fatalities, it’s important to put the
number into perspective. for example, about 2,500 americans die every year
because of aspirin. while there is a certain amount of risk involved in
being treated with ibogaine, it can be minimised by having a complete
physical with heart and liver tests prior to being treated. it’s also very
important to be careful about mixing ibogaine and opiates; a couple of the
known fatalities were probably a result of ibogaine’s effect of decreasing
opiate tolerance.

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] query from TIMES-man
Date: March 25, 2005 at 4:58:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m posting this response by Anahad O’Connor of the New York Times in hopes that some of you with personal experience can better answer  his question than I. I started corresponding with him after his article in the Science Times repeated the outdated view of dopamine as reward instead of craving, hoping that I could get a whole science section piece on the new science involving MGlur5, and Glick’s habenulo-perduncular pathway, etc. But he’s moving to the Metro section instead, and I fear would only write some hysteria-generating piece on underground ibogaine treatments–

anahad@nytimes.com wrote:
i wonder what the fate of methadone is now. if people are slowly turning to ibogaine, and buprenorphine is now being prescribed widely, then shouldn’t methadone clinics be on the way out? or at least the number of people on it should be declining. do you know if there’s any sort of trend emerging here?

I don’t think bup is a piece of cake either. You should reply to list, but cc him at the same time, a la P.C.

Dana/cnw

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 25, 2005 at 11:35:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick, here I go having to explain myself again. I embrace the concept of the Bwiti being in charge because it seems to me that Iboga is bigger than just an addiction interrupter. I use the analogy of the Bwiti/pygmies not in the literal terms always (most of the time, because that is my perception of what happened on my journey) but along with AA and having faith and acceptance of the inevitable. Some things you just can’t control, and to have a little faith in the intangible cool things that come with Ibogaine is not a bad thing in my humble opinion. I hope that we never become so intellectually advanced that we have figured out every little nuance of an Ibogaine experience. That would take the Rock out of the Roll dude. ‘Course I haven’t been “clean” for 50 years, and I may not be qualified to talk about it, butt fuck it, there it is.        Randy

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Iboga legalization
Date: March 25, 2005 at 9:18:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, there is something being done just read the village voice.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 25, 2005 at 4:44:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 24 March 2005 18:30
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?

In a message dated 3/23/05 9:18:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, freedomroot@gmail.com writes:
Finally, my anecdotal sense, well on the mystic range of how people
approach this treatment, is that the Bwiti are “in charge” of what’s
going down… you aren’t just taking a Pill (or six or twelve), you
are crossing a psychic threshold where surrender and spirit are not
abstract but real and powerfully present
My take is – You’re in charge of the process. You can’t lay responsibility with anyone else. If it helps you to imagine that some all-powerful psychic A-team is out there looking out for you, then, for sure, go for it. But you’re going to come back to you anyway.

The only person you can surrender to is You, and it’s not you that does that! Surrender isn’t a real verb. That’s how I see it.

Nick

From: Carlton B <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Iboga legalization
Date: March 24, 2005 at 8:47:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just a question… what is currently being done to legalize iboga in the US?   Is there any sort of legal fund or political action group undertaking any activism in this regard?
I understand that FDA testing was taking place in the early 1990’s until someone died.  Does anyone know what happened with that?  Was the person already in poor health, or is ibogaine toxic in certain situations or combinations?
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] My Bro’
Date: March 24, 2005 at 8:42:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,

My friend, I love to hear from you and I think of you over there fighting the fight for Ibogaine, preparing to risk yourself for the sake of helping others,
helping as we have been helped. You are the man. I feel close to you.

love to you my bro’
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.

Jasen, it’s good to see your positive vibe dude. You have a way of putting things in perspective that I relate to. Thanx.                Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Detoxing from Methadone. Matt
Date: March 24, 2005 at 7:36:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Matt,

You are most welcome, thankyou. When I saw my brother it felt like he was in another frequency,..so to say, like tuning a radio in to another station.

All I felt when I saw him was an awesome love. My understanding was that he was “at home”, I am unsure if he was also back here on earth, however
he most definitely was “somewhere else”, on another plain, dimension,…frequency. The dimension was like a liquid light, like in-between water
and air,…as if they were mixed together somehow.

His head moved from side to side gently as his liquid light  hair flowed like gentle flames, the love that came from him was filling,..all incompasing,
he spoke with light,..or thought, his mouth did not move,..it was like his head was in water and he was moving it side to side with his hair flowing.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Detoxing from Methadone.

Hi J
Thanks for sharing.  Awsome story, amazing experience.  When you saw your brother’s head and he said hes living in another dimension waht did you feel>? any thoughts came in to your head>? when he said another dimension did you get a feeling hes there or that hes been born again on this earth or both…….Respect brother

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Detoxing from Methadone. Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:58:33 +1000 Hello dear list, I am posting my Iboga’ experience which some of you have already read in bits and pieces. Do whatever you wish with it. I was dosed with the extract of Iboga. For the umpteenth time I was reducing of the Methadone, got down to 25mg then started using( once again). I went up to 60 mg. This was very depressing, wanting to get off the methadone and knowing that I would have to reduce again and go through all that shit all over again. As we know to reduce from 60mg down to 25mg is much easier than from 25mg to 0. If I cannot handle going to 25mg how am I going to go from 25mg to nothing Aaaaaaargh f*ck, I can’t do this anymore, I have been trying for many many years. I was quickly losing interest in living, I just wanted to go home to the other side. Being addicted to opiates for 23 years had become to much to bear. I was at my wits end. I was giving up,..going down fast. One day soon after in utter despair, I had a thought come into my head, “Hang in there, it’s almost over. Being desperate to be pulled out of the ocean of addiction, I held onto the thought. How could this be nearly over, it will take another year at least to reduce of 60mg. The thought kept coming to me over and over again, “hang in there, it’s almost over. I started to get some hope back. I thought the only way this can be over quick is if I find a great rehab” and come straight off. (I believe the voice in my head was my brother who passed on)(He also battled with addiction all his life) I started to search the internet and found this great rehab in the states that uses some of Ron Hubbard’s techniques. Nutrition, Sauna and other things. I had heard of this type of treatment before and was hopeful. I contacted them and spoke to this great guy, I am sorry that I cannot remember his name. This man told me that I need to detox before coming to the rehab’ and advised me of a couple of methods, one of which was the controversial Ibogaine/Iboga. He gave me the “mindvox” Ibogaine site. I logged onto this site and started talking to some of the people and reading as much as I could absorb on Ibogaine. I was fortunate to be able to talk to a few people before treatment during and after, Howard,Randy, Julie, Sean and others. The surge of hope flowing through me again was incredible, I could see a way out. (I am getting goose bumps). I applied for a loan and got it (whew). I spoke to some providers and then rang Sara in Amsterdam. It was booked and organised. I took with me 600mg of physeptone (Methadone in a tablet) and worked out that if I triple dosed for the next 3 days or so I would be finished them as I got to Sara’s, the final stone on opiates before detoxing. I got to Amsterdam airport and was warmly greeted with a hug from Sara. We jumped into the car and drove to her place. I gave Sara what little Physeptone I had left. When I got to Sara’s the fear started to set in, this was it. Shit what am I doing here, I don’t think I can do this. No I can’t do this, I have to go back, for the next few hours I am trying to figure out how I was going back. Sara could see how utterly scared I was and started to calm me. I would have rathered a bear come into the camp to attack as I could have seen what I was facing. I stayed the night and woke in the morning very anxious, f*ck,…no methadone. Mmmm can’t go back and face everyone not having at least tried this. I started to get a little sick in the afternoon and Sara gave me my first dose of 1 gram of Iboga extract. I laid down and after about 1 hour I started to feel relaxed and more at ease with the Iboga, a slight vibrating sensation, knowing this was a very spiritual plant I gave thanks with each dose and asked for guidance.An hour or or two later I was given 1.8 grams. The vibrating became more intense, I felt a low pitch buzzing in my head and a vibrating in my body, very relaxing,..no withdrawals. I was then given 3 grams an hour or two later, the low frequency type of vibrating became more intense, then I found myself in the jungle or somewhere similar. I was on a mat on the ground, there were 7 or 8 tribes people on each side of the mat, they picked me up on the mat and started wobbling it,…wobble wobble wobble,..side to side, I knew they were healing me. I was vibrating,..I saw my cells being vibrated, in my cells were dark blockages, little bits of black in these brilliant white cells, as I was being wobbled side to side I could see my cells vibrating more and more,..ummmmmmmm ummmmmmmmm ummmmmmmmmm, the blackness started to vibrate out of my cells, the dark blockages were being dissipated to the sides of the the cells then disappearing. I was then given 5 grams, after a while there was like an explosion and I found myself on this round medallion type of thing about 8 feet in diameter, like a huge coin. I was spread eagled on this medallion and could not move, arms and legs spread out. One side of this medallion was a brilliant brilliant white and the other side was pitch black. The medallion started to flip whilst going up, whov whov whov whov whov, then it stopped on an angle, facing up at about a 120 degrees. Then it felt like people put there hands inside my body, my bones from my back and then they ripped away with a crack, as this happened the back of the medallion which was pitch black, snapped away and even though I was still spread eagled on the coin, I felt myself falling into this pitch black abyss, feeling of falling falling and at the same time knowing I was also on the medallion feeling safe. The feeling of falling disappeared and I was still on the medallion, the medallion was now only a brilliant white, it started to flip again and go up, whov whov whov whov, making this type of sound as it went up up up. The medallion came to a stop and I was facing this most beautiful light,…love acceptance,..more than light more than love, I do not have the words to explain such a sight,..a vast light,..like a liquid love, so bright so expansive. I was a little concerned and I was told, there is nothing to fear, face the light,..and as I did the light which was everything in that existence, there was nothing else, it started to move towards me and then went through me and ohhhh, what a feeling, I started to get champagne bubbles of light going through me, up from my stomach splitting at the base of my heart and exiting through my shoulders, shring shring shring. It was like I had to be cleansed before going any further,…like trying to mix 14ct gold with 24ct gold,..if you do this you taint the pure gold,..so I was smeltered,..purified so to say. One of my brothers was killed about 2 years ago. As I was in this light I saw his head,..it was moving from side to side with like white flames coming off his head like locks of white liquid light, his mouth did not move but he was speaking to me, there was light coming from his eyes and from his closed mouth, like he was facing a fan and the fan was blowing his hair but it wasn’t hair, he said to me,”You cannot die, you simply leave your body behind and vibrate into another dimension, I am still alive, just in another dimension, if you want to honour my name, live life fully, and I will live through you until you come home.. The love coming from him was incredible, he was incredible,..so beautiful, I still see him clearly. I was shown you are one with everything, I felt it, I was told you can experience anyone that ever was or is, who do you wish to experience? I wanted to feel what it would be like to be Jesus, as I thought this, I was coming into a body from above this being of light that had white light as hair saddling his shoulders, as I entered this body of light I got this tremendous feeling of love coming out of my mouth and outstretched hands, like beacons of light coming from my hands and a tremendous feeling of love and compassion within and being sent out to the world, wow, I fell in love with love. Pure and utter bliss. As I woke up I felt as if my heart was outside of my body, it was turned inside out and twisted a little,..like a gene. I went to get up and as I did it felt like I would leave my heart behind if I moved to fast. Like your stomach would feel as you go down a rollercoaster. For the next 24 hours or so I had to cradle my heart out side of my body, like it was my hearts spirit. I would lay down cradling what looked like an empty space above my chest which I felt was my heart outside my body. It felt red raw, inside out,..twisted and it hurt. After about 24 hours or so my heart felt like it was untwisting and going back inside me.,..then something started to fill my heart with what looked and felt like liquid golden honey, they filled it until my heart overflowed with love I could feel the liquid honey overflowing and trickling down, the feeling was so filling, the love I felt was more than I can describe. For the next 7 days I had no withdrawals. My energy was non existent and I could not sleep. After about seven days I started to feel some withdrawals,.about 5%. Not sleeping was driving me mad, I was so bored. I was listening to a lot of music, day and night, a lot of Pink Floyd’s “Division Bell.” I was so happy,..I am free,…f*ck I can’t believe it, wow,..I kept thinking this and would cry with joy,..I am free I am free. After about 3 weeks I had approx’ up to 15% withdrawals, however they were different,..not at a soul level,..more physical,..like I was just sick getting better. I stayed at Sara’s for 27 days and in this time took nutrients and Sara cooked yummy food, Mmm Mmmm M. I am now into my fourth month, still feel a little “not right” however getting stronger everyday. My after care consists of no friends around me that are using, drinking herbs and a lot of nutrients, they make the mind stronger. No sugar except for fruit or an occasional short black coffee..smoking pot has helped tremendously. Exercising has helped sleeping. Socialising and laughing my head off is great. I went to a nightclub and laughed so much I got kicked out. Can you believe that. 🙂 I have steam baths at the gym to help sweat out the Methadone. To help with sleep I took Kava Kava, Passion flower and Valerian. Also Metagenics “Fibroplex plus”. I also took vitamin B complex and other nutrients. Good food is huge and a lot of water. I also gave up many many years of smoking tobbaco. I still feel like a ciggarette now and then, however the urge goes within a minute or two. I still find it hard to concentrate and I get impatient. Normally I am a very patient tolerant man. Any questions are welcome on or off list. Oscar Goldman here I come. I am strong. > love, Jasen. > > > > > > > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html >[%] > >\]=———————————————————————=[/ > > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Detoxing from Methadone.
Date: March 24, 2005 at 7:15:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi J
Thanks for sharing.  Awsome story, amazing experience.  When you saw your brother’s head and he said hes living in another dimension waht did you feel>? any thoughts came in to your head>? when he said another dimension did you get a feeling hes there or that hes been born again on this earth or both…….Respect brother

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Detoxing from Methadone. Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 09:58:33 +1000 Hello dear list, I am posting my Iboga’ experience which some of you have already read in bits and pieces. Do whatever you wish with it. I was dosed with the extract of Iboga. For the umpteenth time I was reducing of the Methadone, got down to 25mg then started using( once again). I went up to 60 mg. This was very depressing, wanting to get off the methadone and knowing that I would have to reduce again and go through all that shit all over again. As we know to reduce from 60mg down to 25mg is much easier than from 25mg to 0. If I cannot handle going to 25mg how am I going to go from 25mg to nothing Aaaaaaargh f*ck, I can’t do this anymore, I have been trying for many many years. I was quickly losing interest in living, I just wanted to go home to the other side. Being addicted to opiates for 23 years had become to much to bear. I was at my wits end. I was giving up,..going down fast. One day soon after in utter despair, I had a thought come into my head, “Hang in there, it’s almost over. Being desperate to be pulled out of the ocean of addiction, I held onto the thought. How could this be nearly over, it will take another year at least to reduce of 60mg. The thought kept coming to me over and over again, “hang in there, it’s almost over. I started to get some hope back. I thought the only way this can be over quick is if I find a great rehab” and come straight off. (I believe the voice in my head was my brother who passed on)(He also battled with addiction all his life) I started to search the internet and found this great rehab in the states that uses some of Ron Hubbard’s techniques. Nutrition, Sauna and other things. I had heard of this type of treatment before and was hopeful. I contacted them and spoke to this great guy, I am sorry that I cannot remember his name. This man told me that I need to detox before coming to the rehab’ and advised me of a couple of methods, one of which was the controversial Ibogaine/Iboga. He gave me the “mindvox” Ibogaine site. I logged onto this site and started talking to some of the people and reading as much as I could absorb on Ibogaine. I was fortunate to be able to talk to a few people before treatment during and after, Howard,Randy, Julie, Sean and others. The surge of hope flowing through me again was incredible, I could see a way out. (I am getting goose bumps). I applied for a loan and got it (whew). I spoke to some providers and then rang Sara in Amsterdam. It was booked and organised. I took with me 600mg of physeptone (Methadone in a tablet) and worked out that if I triple dosed for the next 3 days or so I would be finished them as I got to Sara’s, the final stone on opiates before detoxing. I got to Amsterdam airport and was warmly greeted with a hug from Sara. We jumped into the car and drove to her place. I gave Sara what little Physeptone I had left. When I got to Sara’s the fear started to set in, this was it. Shit what am I doing here, I don’t think I can do this. No I can’t do this, I have to go back, for the next few hours I am trying to figure out how I was going back. Sara could see how utterly scared I was and started to calm me. I would have rathered a bear come into the camp to attack as I could have seen what I was facing. I stayed the night and woke in the morning very anxious, f*ck,…no methadone. Mmmm can’t go back and face everyone not having at least tried this. I started to get a little sick in the afternoon and Sara gave me my first dose of 1 gram of Iboga extract. I laid down and after about 1 hour I started to feel relaxed and more at ease with the Iboga, a slight vibrating sensation, knowing this was a very spiritual plant I gave thanks with each dose and asked for guidance.An hour or or two later I was given 1.8 grams. The vibrating became more intense, I felt a low pitch buzzing in my head and a vibrating in my body, very relaxing,..no withdrawals. I was then given 3 grams an hour or two later, the low frequency type of vibrating became more intense, then I found myself in the jungle or somewhere similar. I was on a mat on the ground, there were 7 or 8 tribes people on each side of the mat, they picked me up on the mat and started wobbling it,…wobble wobble wobble,..side to side, I knew they were healing me. I was vibrating,..I saw my cells being vibrated, in my cells were dark blockages, little bits of black in these brilliant white cells, as I was being wobbled side to side I could see my cells vibrating more and more,..ummmmmmmm ummmmmmmmm ummmmmmmmmm, the blackness started to vibrate out of my cells, the dark blockages were being dissipated to the sides of the the cells then disappearing. I was then given 5 grams, after a while there was like an explosion and I found myself on this round medallion type of thing about 8 feet in diameter, like a huge coin. I was spread eagled on this medallion and could not move, arms and legs spread out. One side of this medallion was a brilliant brilliant white and the other side was pitch black. The medallion started to flip whilst going up, whov whov whov whov whov, then it stopped on an angle, facing up at about a 120 degrees. Then it felt like people put there hands inside my body, my bones from my back and then they ripped away with a crack, as this happened the back of the medallion which was pitch black, snapped away and even though I was still spread eagled on the coin, I felt myself falling into this pitch black abyss, feeling of falling falling and at the same time knowing I was also on the medallion feeling safe. The feeling of falling disappeared and I was still on the medallion, the medallion was now only a brilliant white, it started to flip again and go up, whov whov whov whov, making this type of sound as it went up up up. The medallion came to a stop and I was facing this most beautiful light,…love acceptance,..more than light more than love, I do not have the words to explain such a sight,..a vast light,..like a liquid love, so bright so expansive. I was a little concerned and I was told, there is nothing to fear, face the light,..and as I did the light which was everything in that existence, there was nothing else, it started to move towards me and then went through me and ohhhh, what a feeling, I started to get champagne bubbles of light going through me, up from my stomach splitting at the base of my heart and exiting through my shoulders, shring shring shring. It was like I had to be cleansed before going any further,…like trying to mix 14ct gold with 24ct gold,..if you do this you taint the pure gold,..so I was smeltered,..purified so to say. One of my brothers was killed about 2 years ago. As I was in this light I saw his head,..it was moving from side to side with like white flames coming off his head like locks of white liquid light, his mouth did not move but he was speaking to me, there was light coming from his eyes and from his closed mouth, like he was facing a fan and the fan was blowing his hair but it wasn’t hair, he said to me,”You cannot die, you simply leave your body behind and vibrate into another dimension, I am still alive, just in another dimension, if you want to honour my name, live life fully, and I will live through you until you come home.. The love coming from him was incredible, he was incredible,..so beautiful, I still see him clearly. I was shown you are one with everything, I felt it, I was told you can experience anyone that ever was or is, who do you wish to experience? I wanted to feel what it would be like to be Jesus, as I thought this, I was coming into a body from above this being of light that had white light as hair saddling his shoulders, as I entered this body of light I got this tremendous feeling of love coming out of my mouth and outstretched hands, like beacons of light coming from my hands and a tremendous feeling of love and compassion within and being sent out to the world, wow, I fell in love with love. Pure and utter bliss. As I woke up I felt as if my heart was outside of my body, it was turned inside out and twisted a little,..like a gene. I went to get up and as I did it felt like I would leave my heart behind if I moved to fast. Like your stomach would feel as you go down a rollercoaster. For the next 24 hours or so I had to cradle my heart out side of my body, like it was my hearts spirit. I would lay down cradling what looked like an empty space above my chest which I felt was my heart outside my body. It felt red raw, inside out,..twisted and it hurt. After about 24 hours or so my heart felt like it was untwisting and going back inside me.,..then something started to fill my heart with what looked and felt like liquid golden honey, they filled it until my heart overflowed with love I could feel the liquid honey overflowing and trickling down, the feeling was so filling, the love I felt was more than I can describe. For the next 7 days I had no withdrawals. My energy was non existent and I could not sleep. After about seven days I started to feel some withdrawals,.about 5%. Not sleeping was driving me mad, I was so bored. I was listening to a lot of music, day and night, a lot of Pink Floyd’s “Division Bell.” I was so happy,..I am free,…f*ck I can’t believe it, wow,..I kept thinking this and would cry with joy,..I am free I am free. After about 3 weeks I had approx’ up to 15% withdrawals, however they were different,..not at a soul level,..more physical,..like I was just sick getting better. I stayed at Sara’s for 27 days and in this time took nutrients and Sara cooked yummy food, Mmm Mmmm M. I am now into my fourth month, still feel a little “not right” however getting stronger everyday. My after care consists of no friends around me that are using, drinking herbs and a lot of nutrients, they make the mind stronger. No sugar except for fruit or an occasional short black coffee..smoking pot has helped tremendously. Exercising has helped sleeping. Socialising and laughing my head off is great. I went to a nightclub and laughed so much I got kicked out. Can you believe that. 🙂 I have steam baths at the gym to help sweat out the Methadone. To help with sleep I took Kava Kava, Passion flower and Valerian. Also Metagenics “Fibroplex plus”. I also took vitamin B complex and other nutrients. Good food is huge and a lot of water. I also gave up many many years of smoking tobbaco. I still feel like a ciggarette now and then, however the urge goes within a minute or two. I still find it hard to concentrate and I get impatient. Normally I am a very patient tolerant man. Any questions are welcome on or off list. Oscar Goldman here I come. I am strong. > love, Jasen. > > > > > > > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html >[%] > >\]=———————————————————————=[/ > > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Detoxing from Methadone.
Date: March 24, 2005 at 6:58:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello dear list,

I am posting my Iboga’ experience which some of you have already read
in bits and pieces. Do whatever you wish with it.

I was dosed with the extract of Iboga.

For the umpteenth time I was reducing of the Methadone, got down to 25mg
then started using( once again).
I went up to 60 mg. This was very depressing, wanting to get off the
methadone and knowing that I would have
to reduce again and go through all that shit all over again. As we know to
reduce from 60mg down to 25mg is
much easier than from 25mg to 0. If I cannot handle going to 25mg how am I
going to go from 25mg to nothing
Aaaaaaargh  f*ck, I can’t do this anymore, I have been trying for many many
years.

I was quickly losing interest in living, I just wanted to go home to the
other side. Being addicted to opiates for 23
years had become to much to bear. I was at my wits end. I was giving
up,..going down fast.

One day soon after in utter despair, I had a thought come into my head,
“Hang in there, it’s almost over. Being desperate
to be pulled out of the ocean of addiction, I held onto the thought. How
could this be nearly over, it will take another year
at least to reduce of 60mg. The thought kept coming to me over and over
again, “hang in there, it’s almost over. I started
to get some hope back. I thought the only way this can be over quick is if
I find a great rehab” and come straight off.

(I believe the voice in my head was my brother who passed on)(He also
battled with addiction all his life)

I started to search the internet and found this great rehab in the states
that uses some of Ron Hubbard’s techniques. Nutrition,
Sauna and other things. I had heard of this type of treatment before and
was hopeful. I contacted them and spoke to this great
guy, I am sorry that I cannot remember his name.

This man told me that I need to detox before coming to the rehab’ and
advised me of a couple of methods, one of which was
the controversial Ibogaine/Iboga. He gave me the “mindvox” Ibogaine site.

I logged onto this site and started talking to some of the people and
reading as much as I could absorb on Ibogaine. I was fortunate
to be able to talk to a few people before treatment during and after,
Howard,Randy, Julie, Sean and others.

The surge of hope flowing through me again was incredible, I could see a
way out. (I am getting goose bumps).

I applied for a loan and got it (whew). I spoke to some providers and then
rang Sara in Amsterdam. It was booked and organised.

I took with me 600mg of physeptone (Methadone in a tablet) and worked out
that if I triple dosed for the next 3 days or so I would
be finished them as I got to Sara’s, the final stone on opiates before
detoxing.

I got to Amsterdam airport and was warmly greeted with a hug from Sara. We
jumped into the car and drove to her place. I gave
Sara what little Physeptone I had left. When I got to Sara’s the fear
started to set in, this was it. Shit what am I doing here, I don’t
think I can do this. No I can’t do this, I have to go back, for the next
few hours I am trying to figure out how I was going back.
Sara could see how utterly scared I was and started to calm me. I
would have rathered a bear come into the camp to attack
as I could have seen what I was facing.

I stayed the night and woke in the morning very anxious, f*ck,…no
methadone. Mmmm can’t go back and face everyone not having
at least tried this.

I started to get a little sick in the afternoon and Sara gave me my first
dose of 1 gram of Iboga extract. I laid down and after about 1 hour
I started to feel relaxed and more at ease with the Iboga, a slight
vibrating sensation, knowing this was a very spiritual plant I gave thanks
with each dose and asked for guidance.An hour or or two later I was given
1.8 grams. The vibrating became more intense, I felt a low pitch buzzing
in my head and a vibrating in my body, very relaxing,..no withdrawals.

I was then given 3 grams an hour or two later, the low frequency type of
vibrating became more intense, then I found myself in the jungle or
somewhere similar. I was on a mat on the ground, there were 7 or 8 tribes
people on each side of the mat, they picked me up on the mat and started
wobbling it,…wobble wobble wobble,..side to side, I knew they were healing
me. I was vibrating,..I saw my cells being vibrated, in my cells  were dark
blockages, little bits of black in these brilliant white cells, as I was
being wobbled side to side I could see my cells vibrating more and
more,..ummmmmmmm   ummmmmmmmm ummmmmmmmmm, the blackness started to vibrate
out of my cells, the dark blockages
were being dissipated to the sides of the the cells then disappearing.

I was then given 5 grams, after a while there was like an explosion and I
found myself on this round medallion type of thing about 8 feet in
diameter, like a huge coin. I was spread eagled on this medallion and could
not move, arms and legs spread out. One side of this medallion
was a brilliant brilliant white and the other side was pitch black.

The medallion started to flip whilst going up, whov whov whov whov whov,
then it stopped on an angle, facing up at about a 120 degrees.
Then it felt like people put there hands inside my body, my bones from my
back and then they ripped away with a crack, as this happened
the back of the medallion which was pitch black, snapped away and even though
I was still spread eagled on the coin, I felt myself falling into
this pitch black abyss, feeling of falling falling and at the same time
knowing I was also on the medallion feeling safe.

The feeling of falling disappeared and I was still on the medallion, the
medallion was now only a brilliant white, it started to flip again and go
up, whov whov whov whov, making this type of sound as it went up up up. The
medallion came to a stop and I was facing this most beautiful
light,…love  acceptance,..more than light more than love, I do not have
the words to explain such a sight,..a vast light,..like a liquid love, so
bright so expansive. I was a little concerned and I was told, there is
nothing to fear, face the light,..and as I did the light which was
everything
in that existence, there was nothing else, it started to move towards me and
then went through me and ohhhh, what a feeling, I started to get
champagne bubbles of light going through me, up from my stomach splitting at
the base of my heart and exiting through my shoulders, shring
shring shring.

It was like I had to be cleansed before going any further,…like trying to mix
14ct gold with 24ct gold,..if you do this you taint the pure gold,..so I was
smeltered,..purified so to say.

One of my brothers was killed about 2 years ago. As I was in this light I
saw his head,..it was moving from side to side with like white flames
coming off his head like locks of white liquid light, his mouth did not move
but he was speaking to me, there was light coming from his eyes
and from his closed mouth, like he was facing a fan and the fan was blowing
his hair but it wasn’t hair, he said to me,”You cannot die, you simply
leave your body behind and vibrate into another dimension, I am still alive,
just in another dimension, if you want to honour my name, live life fully, and
I will live through you until you come home..

The love coming from him was incredible, he was incredible,..so beautiful, I
still see him clearly.

I was shown you are one with everything, I felt it, I was told you can
experience anyone that ever was or is, who do you wish to experience?
I wanted to feel what it would be like to be Jesus, as I thought this, I was
coming into a body from above this being of light that had white
light as hair saddling his shoulders, as I entered this body of light I got
this tremendous feeling of love coming out of my mouth and outstretched
hands, like beacons of light coming from my hands and a tremendous feeling
of love and compassion within and being sent out to the world, wow, I fell
in love with love.

Pure and utter bliss.

As I woke up I felt as if my heart was outside of my body, it was turned
inside out and twisted a little,..like a gene. I went to get up and as I
did it felt like I would leave my heart behind if I moved to fast. Like your
stomach would feel as you go down a rollercoaster. For the next 24 hours or
so I had to cradle my heart out side of my body, like it was my hearts
spirit. I would lay down cradling what looked like an empty space above my
chest which I felt was my heart outside my body. It felt red raw, inside
out,..twisted and it hurt.

After about 24 hours or so my heart felt like it was untwisting and going
back inside me.,..then something started to fill my heart with what looked
and felt
like liquid golden honey, they filled it until my heart overflowed with
love I could feel the liquid honey overflowing and trickling down, the
feeling was so filling, the love I felt was more than I can describe.

For the next 7 days I had no withdrawals. My energy was non existent and I
could not sleep. After about seven days I started to feel some
withdrawals,.about 5%. Not sleeping was driving me mad, I was so bored.
I was listening to a lot of music, day and night, a lot of Pink Floyd’s
“Division Bell.”   I was so happy,..I am free,…f*ck I can’t believe it,
wow,..I kept thinking this and would cry with joy,..I am free I am free.

After about 3 weeks I had approx’ up to 15% withdrawals, however they were
different,..not at a soul level,..more physical,..like I was just
sick getting better. I stayed at Sara’s for 27 days and in this time took
nutrients and Sara cooked yummy food, Mmm Mmmm M.

I am now into my fourth month, still feel a little “not right” however
getting stronger everyday.

My after care consists of no friends around me that are using, drinking
herbs and a lot of nutrients, they make the mind stronger. No sugar except
for fruit or an occasional short black coffee..smoking pot has helped
tremendously. Exercising has helped sleeping. Socialising and laughing my
head off is great.

I went to a nightclub and laughed so much I got kicked out. Can you believe
that.   🙂

I have steam baths at the gym to help sweat out the Methadone.

To help with sleep I took Kava Kava, Passion flower and Valerian. Also
Metagenics “Fibroplex plus”. I also took vitamin B complex and
other nutrients. Good food is huge and a lot of water.

I also gave up many many years of smoking tobbaco. I still feel like
a ciggarette now and then, however the urge goes within a minute or
two.

I still find it hard to concentrate and I get impatient. Normally I am a
very patient tolerant man.

Any questions are welcome on or off list.

Oscar Goldman here I come. I am strong.

love,
Jasen.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 4:50:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
I figured that if i took a gram when i was addicted,  half the dose for no addiction seems reletivly safe.

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:37:51 -0500 Warmly regarded Matt with a heartache… “What do you believe a half dose of ibogaine will do for you?” asked Marc Emery… Yes, can you explain more about your rationale for choosing the size of dose? And the timing of it? I ask, because the desire for “more” and “more NOW” might be coming from a reflex place of former drug habits. Others probably have specific expertise to offer privately on this, but in our case, Jeff G ‘s experience was that micro-doses taken a few weeks after his initial treatment “didn’t make a dent” so to speak. Whatever was going on in his brain chemistry from 32.2 mg/kg of the Ibogaine taken in the initial 113 hours (5 days), seemed to make a follow up booster nine days later (5.8 mg/kg) virtually unnoticeable… he heard a little cricket buzz, prepared himself, and then spent the day saying “I don’t feel anything! I don’t feel anything!” and was eating and walking around and stuff. Pretty similar response with the same amount six days after that. Although that time we cleared his system more thoroughly ahead of the Eat and he was a bit more horizontally inclined (ataxic) I heard later from Martee (hi girl!) that she was told it made sense to put off the follow-through boost(s) as long as possible. And also from a lot of people, everybody really, that the insights are not always immediately perceived on a conscious level. So patience can be a particular virtue. Like what Marcus just said… more will be revealed. wormiest regardenings, and a whole lotta love (sorry – Robert Plant’s in town tonight), rachel /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Share a single photo or an entire slide show right inside your e-mail with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 4:37:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Warmly regarded Matt with a heartache…

“What do you believe a half dose of ibogaine will do for you?” asked
Marc Emery…

Yes, can you explain more about your rationale for choosing the size
of dose?  And the timing of it?

I ask, because the desire for “more” and  “more NOW” might be coming
from a reflex place of former drug habits.

Others probably have specific expertise to offer privately on this,
but in our case, Jeff G ‘s experience was that micro-doses taken a few
weeks after  his initial treatment “didn’t make a dent” so to speak.
Whatever was going on in his brain chemistry from 32.2 mg/kg of the
Ibogaine taken in the initial 113 hours (5 days), seemed to make a
follow up booster nine days later (5.8 mg/kg) virtually
unnoticeable… he heard a little cricket buzz, prepared himself, and
then spent the day saying “I don’t feel anything!  I don’t feel
anything!” and was eating and walking around and stuff.   Pretty
similar response with the same amount six days after that.  Although
that time we cleared his system more thoroughly ahead of the Eat and
he was a bit more horizontally inclined (ataxic)

I heard later from Martee (hi girl!) that she was told it made sense
to put off the follow-through boost(s) as long as possible.  And also
from a lot of people, everybody really, that the insights are not
always immediately perceived on a conscious level.  So patience can be
a particular virtue. Like what Marcus just said… more will be
revealed.

wormiest regardenings, and a whole lotta love (sorry – Robert Plant’s
in town tonight), rachel

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] About those heart problems
Date: March 24, 2005 at 3:50:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matthew,

Of the 60 patients I was involved in administering ibogaine to, there were no serious anomalies and only one minor situation (older patient, 59, fell unconscious briefly from low blood sugar after eating & drinking little for three days after ibo) and he recovered immediately upon some glucose, so ibogaine is safe in my observations.

Nonetheless, I would seriously wait until you were certain your heart health was very good before administering ibo to yourself. To put that to the test, when you think you are very well, go jogging and run until your heart is beating hard. If it doesn’t hurt and you feel fine and there are no breathing problems and no chest pain, you are probably in healthy shape.

Of course, I presume you have a capable and faithful person beside you the entire time to monitor you & your vital signs when you do take this ibogaine.

Marc Emery
From: matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 3:18:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark
I intend to take it next week or when it arrives.  the main reason im taking it is to find more answeres to lifes never ending questions.  im not really taking it for cravings etc.  the cardiologist said that the infrection goes away on its own.  He said to take an asprin if the pain persists. LOL

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery@shaw.ca> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:56:08 -0800 When do you intend to take this dosage of Ibo HCI? You should definitely deal with that infection first. What do you believe a half dose of ibogaine will do for you? Marc Emery << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 3:18:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark
I intend to take it next week or when it arrives.  the main reason im taking it is to find more answeres to lifes never ending questions.  im not really taking it for cravings etc.  the cardiologist said that the infrection goes away on its own.  He said to take an asprin if the pain persists. LOL

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery@shaw.ca> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 10:56:08 -0800 When do you intend to take this dosage of Ibo HCI? You should definitely deal with that infection first. What do you believe a half dose of ibogaine will do for you? Marc Emery << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 24, 2005 at 2:39:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And good and proper sense it seems to be,
my personal experience during Ibogaine treatment
was one that had me realizing my inability to control
perceptions that , i feel, were being generously
donated by ? (Bwiti?)..i still do not want to be so
bold as to say I truly know the wherefroms and reasons
for what happened during my sessions, yet can say for
certain that i am not fortunate enough to have
completed, having been overcome by my fear of what was
being revealed..more will be revealed
Marcus I.
— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/23/05 9:18:45 PM Eastern
Standard Time,
freedomroot@gmail.com writes:
Finally, my anecdotal sense, well on the mystic
range of how people
approach this treatment, is that the Bwiti are “in
charge” of what’s
going down… you aren’t just taking a Pill (or six
or twelve), you
are crossing a psychic threshold where surrender and
spirit are not
abstract but real and powerfully present
Very well said Rach.
Randy

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: Marc Emery <Marc420Emery@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 1:56:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When do you intend to take this dosage of Ibo HCI? You should definitely deal with that infection first.

What do you believe a half dose of ibogaine will do for you?

Marc Emery
From: matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 1:37:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
i ahve a question…..lets say a person who took ibo for meth/h/benzo adiction ingested 1gram hcl for about 70kg and about a week later had severe heart problems…extreme palpitations…lips hands going numb….uncotroloble shaking…….had to go to er…..did an ekg had minor complications, had to have holter monitor which showed stage two heart block and went to a cardiologist who explained that the condition happens quite often in people who have severe flu…he explained that the sack that holds the heart got infected……question—would it be safe to do ibo in small dose ie half a gram or less
Warmest Regards

Matt

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ATTN ANY DOCTORS ON THE LST——-HEART PROBLEMS/IBOGAINE
Date: March 24, 2005 at 1:37:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
i ahve a question…..lets say a person who took ibo for meth/h/benzo adiction ingested 1gram hcl for about 70kg and about a week later had severe heart problems…extreme palpitations…lips hands going numb….uncotroloble shaking…….had to go to er…..did an ekg had minor complications, had to have holter monitor which showed stage two heart block and went to a cardiologist who explained that the condition happens quite often in people who have severe flu…he explained that the sack that holds the heart got infected……question—would it be safe to do ibo in small dose ie half a gram or less
Warmest Regards

Matt

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 24, 2005 at 1:30:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/23/05 9:18:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, freedomroot@gmail.com writes:
Finally, my anecdotal sense, well on the mystic range of how people
approach this treatment, is that the Bwiti are “in charge” of what’s
going down… you aren’t just taking a Pill (or six or twelve), you
are crossing a psychic threshold where surrender and spirit are not
abstract but real and powerfully present
Very well said Rach.                            Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NYC ibogaine forum presentations
Date: March 24, 2005 at 10:51:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not the producer of the event so it is a question the various producers
would have to ask.  Possibly, it was an issue of money/time, etc.

Howard

In a message dated 3/24/05 5:12:57 AM, morning_wood263@yahoo.com writes:

So I guess nobody recorded mp3’s of COSM or any
other presentation.  Why is that Howard?

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
For those of you who could not attend the NYC
Ibogaine Forum, the Ibogaine
Dossier has now received a number of presentations
that have been placed on the
Dossier.  Additional reports are expected but, here
is what is available now
from the links at
http://www.ibogaine.org/nyc2005.html or
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/nyc2005.html

Howard

“Ibogaine Forms, Dose and Dose Regimens”

“Music Therapy and Ibogaine Treatment: Harmonic
Symbiosis ”

“New Findings: Dopamine, Craving and Ibogaine
Effects”

“Ibogaine and Gene Expression”

“Survey Methamphetamine Treatments with Ibogaine.”

“Ibogaine: Anti-viral Effects”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 24, 2005 at 9:40:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, it’s good to see your positive vibe dude. You have a way of putting things in perspective that I relate to. Thanx.                Randy

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 24, 2005 at 6:02:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I detoxed with Ibo from metha and i used cannabis to
combat the very minor WD I felt, it actually takes
almost all of it away in a high dose…  I have been
clean of methadone and other opiaets for a year and my
tolerance was reset as well…  It isn’t a walk in the
park, but it isn’t difficult if you really wanna be
clean, i tried many ways, this one was by far the
easiest and most healing, the qucikest, but you still
have to be prepared and ready to make the necessary
changes not to relapse…  It gioves you a nice window
of opportunity to change your habits, but the rest is
up to you, it is a tool, but not a cure all…  More
info if you wish…. just ask…
CE

— bb <bbburtnick@webtv.net> wrote:
I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have
signed on in hopes of
discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from
methadone. Then of course is
the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention
proper application. But
first of all is the question of whether there is any
genuine value for
meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake
comparatively, if you
don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust
me). Seems
“rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless
perhaps if the
problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So
does ibogaine
differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal
anyway?
Respectfully-bb

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NYC ibogaine forum presentations
Date: March 24, 2005 at 5:11:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I guess nobody recorded mp3’s of COSM or any
other presentation.  Why is that Howard?

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
For those of you who could not attend the NYC
Ibogaine Forum, the Ibogaine
Dossier has now received a number of presentations
that have been placed on the
Dossier.  Additional reports are expected but, here
is what is available now
from the links at
http://www.ibogaine.org/nyc2005.html or
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/nyc2005.html

Howard

“Ibogaine Forms, Dose and Dose Regimens”

“Music Therapy and Ibogaine Treatment: Harmonic
Symbiosis ”

“New Findings: Dopamine, Craving and Ibogaine
Effects”

“Ibogaine and Gene Expression”

“Survey Methamphetamine Treatments with Ibogaine.”

“Ibogaine: Anti-viral Effects”

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 24, 2005 at 4:11:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mat

I’m glad your thinking is is positive and your taking new steps. I’m not a recovering addict but I’ve used all sorts of substances in the past – I did get a problem with weed in my early 20’s but I’ve been able keep stuff at arms length. I now work in the substance misuse field – I”ve worked in rehab, community outreach and and statutory multi disiplinary teams and mental health. I trained as a Social Worker in 99 and have been in the field ever since. I’m 32 years old and have two kids.

I you want to ask anything else just go for it

I wonder what other measures you are taking to help keep things moving  – what about your mates? are you still hanging with using friends while they use? do you have many non using mates?

Much Love

Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:53:49 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:53:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
Thanks for ur king words and  the link– ill definetly check it out……Chris i realize that to use something to deal with problems is only more problematic…i totally agree with u….i dont think heroin is the key to solving lifes ridles…never ever and i hope i never will use heroin if i have serious problem…..i know what would happen……..i should have been more clear—-i meant to say that it will be fun to use once in a blue moon but ONLY ONLY IF U KNOW  u can handle it….how can u know? is it posible to know with H……i think it is only posible after u go fhrough a major transformation…right now i dont care about H…..the cravings come and go but ever since i slipped i deal with them much better….i know why i have to stay clean and whats going to happen if i start using…..no ifs or buts…i made my choice…..i chose the life of creativity, imaganition, evolution and most importantly action……..”not the consequences of actions that matter –its whter we act”–Satre—-peace out brother…..btw are u a recovering addict>? pls tell me a bit about ur self
Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:16:16 +0000 Hello Matt Wow thanks for sharing that. Your journey is one of extreme experience and seems to go hand in and with a powerful addiction. It’s interesting that you felt a need to test yourself – I guess its quite common to undergo some boundary pushing. Damn those prescription drugs, they hand them out like sweets laced with razor wire. Interestingly some of the stuff that I’ve read would suggest that benzos are ineffective if prescribed for more than say one month. This is to do with the short half life and resulting fast development of tolerance. This seems to lead to symptoms such as, anxiety and insomnia – the very issues that they were prescribed for, they can create. Check this site out professor Ashton spent 3 years in a benzo reduction clinic and this is based on best practice from hands on experience http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm I’d like to say a massive well done for achieving 10 weeks clean (with a small hick up in between!) Heroin is simply Heroin it’s what WE do with the substances that create the problems. Some of us can take or leave this or that but some of us get stuck with the taking bit. I guess that’s something that you have learned. Its interesting to read that “I might do it here and there to take the pressure off” what are your thoughts about that? Are you saying that the only way to take time out from life’s pressures is to use Heroin?? Can you remember a time when pressure was something that you dealt with in some other way? It’s a funny old game but it seems that when we chose to use a substance to cope with something that can be worked through without drugs we give up some of our own strength to the drug – allowing it to cope in or absence = does that make sense? That seems to be the pivotal point of danger for many folk once you give up your personal power to something else it’s like we dissolve our own fantastic abilities such as resilience. You are an artist of life and BROWN is but one colour you can paint with – get your brush out Mr Mat and lets see some positive pictures! Avoiding a physical habit is easy Mat – just don’t use on consecutive days and try and leave a few days in between using, aim for more junk free days in the week instead of using days. See The Heroin Users Handbook by francis Moraes The trouble is and always will be the mind games folk play or the psychological addiction – it is waiting in the wings to cover you in chocolate covered teeth time. Is it just me, or have you already started tasting the chocolate, instead of avoiding the sharp teeth?? I wish you well for the future Matt – its waiting to be developed by us all Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization >Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:16:12 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] It works in more ways than one.
Date: March 23, 2005 at 10:12:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey BB,

How you doing matey. My name is Jasen, I had been (had,…WOW) addicted to Methadone and heroin for 23 years. Since the
age of 15 (first serious habit). I live in Australia. I spoke to many understanding people on the list for a few months before going to
Amsterdam Holland to have the treatment with Sara. I was on 60mg at the time and also double and triple dosed a few days
leading up to getting to Sara’s.

Sara gave me the “extract” Iboga. I was at Sara’s for 27 days. The “Iboga'” helped me in many ways, one of which was to relieve
me of at least 85% of the withdrawals.

The good thing about Iboga’ is that it seems to help with some of the underlying reasons as to the addiction in the first place, it did for
me anyway. It also seems to give you more understanding and it filled me with love,..love in very generous amounts. It really was a
wonderfull medicine for me.

I am now going into my fourth month,…free of all addiction and I am loving it. The residual withdrawals for me stuck with me for
quite a while,….but you know what,..it is not like “hanging out” it is like you know you are a little unwell,..like you have the flu, and
you will get better. It gives you strength.

One very important thing is “aftercare”. Organise yourself in a way where you will not be around your old “using” mates, and your
enviroment is different when you get home. Iboga resets your life and gives you the opportunity to take a different path if you so
choose. It did for me.

If you have any questions, I am here for you, as are many others. Be well BB.

I am strong.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: “bb” <bbburtnick@webtv.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?

I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have signed on in hopes of
discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from methadone. Then of course is
the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention proper application. But
first of all is the question of whether there is any genuine value for
meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake comparatively, if you
don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust me). Seems
“rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless perhaps if the
problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So does ibogaine
differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal anyway?
Respectfully-bb

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 23, 2005 at 9:02:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi bb,

I’m Jeff’s wife, rachel, with a few comments to add onto his.

It does feel like its an opportunity to have your life handed back to
you, free of the handcuffs and the disciplines of the clinic.  There’s
a lot about wanting to be free of it too, it seems, because it’s not
just about the week or two of eating the root medicine, but what you
do with yourself, your energies, and your healing choices in the
immediate aftermath of that eating.

We did not do all that was recommended, like get out of town, have a
therapeutic relationship in place, or take up a body practice like
yoga, Qi Gong, etc.  He had some extended PAWS for sure, but
withdrawals were still far (FAR!) milder than what  you’d go through
even on a slow taper.  And he also didn’t follow through on a lot of
the nutritional suggestions, including exercise.  We had limited funds
to do the kind of therapy and bodywork that might really help release
old patterns more effectively.   I think he got one professional
massage, and a few weeks of Chiro, a few meetings with a new
therapist, and then kinda gave up on all that and did his own thing.

So does it work?  Absolutely, but contingently.  From what I heard of
Howard’s talk at the recent forum, and I don’t think this data is
broken down by distinction of methadone, heroin, cocaine, etc., but it
seems like 10% of the folks are totally sprung, freed, cured, (or
whatever language feels discursively correct in your lexicon of the
Drug Wars),  another 10% it doesn’t quite seem to work on and they go
back to using like the next day, and the other 80% get a period of
ADDICTION INTERRUPTION that ranges from a few months to a few years
before cravings return.

Kamlet’s talk suggested / explained why it doesn’t work for that 10%
— their livers can’t process the alkaloids into their
counter-addictive metabolite, Nor-Ibogaine, either because it was busy
using that enzyme on some other medicine or on grapefruit juice or
perhaps because they just don’t have it in their body to begin wtih
There’s some science about whether you are a rapid, moderate, slow, or
non metabolizer based on genetic material, but that test is expensive
and is inconvenient for most patients.

Our Ibo-Angels, and I think this is the state of the art, suggested a
preliminary test dose of the Ibogaine HCL according to his body
weight, watching for allergic reaction, and then how fast it “comes
on” tells providers’ something intuitive about the relationship this
particular person has for the root medicine.  Sara’s process in the
Netherlands, from what I understand, uses also the whole root extract
and if you go there, you have a longer period of time with your
provider which might be good, as it does take longer to detox with
Methadone patients than with heroin.

Finally, my anecdotal sense, well on the mystic range of how people
approach this treatment, is that the Bwiti are “in charge” of what’s
going down… you aren’t just taking a Pill (or six or twelve), you
are crossing a psychic threshold where surrender and spirit are not
abstract but real and powerfully present.  For example, I did not
ingest anything, and felt all sorts of “vibes” over the course of
Jeff’s ad-hoc initiation, including energy in the room where he
dreamed, hallucinogenic visitations in my meditations at the foot of
his bed, and for at least a few months afterwards dreams on some
nights that mirrored his consciousness processes in uncanny themes and
peoplings.  But maybe that’s our relationship and my relationship with
g-d.

At any rate, bottom line, you probably have a 90% chance to gain a
unique window of opportunity to withdraw relatively easily, but your
brain’s ultimate rebirth seems to depend on variables like your
habits, your friends, your situation, what goes down in your
vision-dreams, etc.

with love from qns, and special love to all the Angels out there, rachel

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:53:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
Thanks for ur king words and  the link– ill definetly check it out……Chris i realize that to use something to deal with problems is only more problematic…i totally agree with u….i dont think heroin is the key to solving lifes ridles…never ever and i hope i never will use heroin if i have serious problem…..i know what would happen……..i should have been more clear—-i meant to say that it will be fun to use once in a blue moon but ONLY ONLY IF U KNOW  u can handle it….how can u know? is it posible to know with H……i think it is only posible after u go fhrough a major transformation…right now i dont care about H…..the cravings come and go but ever since i slipped i deal with them much better….i know why i have to stay clean and whats going to happen if i start using…..no ifs or buts…i made my choice…..i chose the life of creativity, imaganition, evolution and most importantly action……..”not the consequences of actions that matter –its whter we act”–Satre—-peace out brother…..btw are u a recovering addict>? pls tell me a bit about ur self
Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:16:16 +0000 Hello Matt Wow thanks for sharing that. Your journey is one of extreme experience and seems to go hand in and with a powerful addiction. It’s interesting that you felt a need to test yourself – I guess its quite common to undergo some boundary pushing. Damn those prescription drugs, they hand them out like sweets laced with razor wire. Interestingly some of the stuff that I’ve read would suggest that benzos are ineffective if prescribed for more than say one month. This is to do with the short half life and resulting fast development of tolerance. This seems to lead to symptoms such as, anxiety and insomnia – the very issues that they were prescribed for, they can create. Check this site out professor Ashton spent 3 years in a benzo reduction clinic and this is based on best practice from hands on experience http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm I’d like to say a massive well done for achieving 10 weeks clean (with a small hick up in between!) Heroin is simply Heroin it’s what WE do with the substances that create the problems. Some of us can take or leave this or that but some of us get stuck with the taking bit. I guess that’s something that you have learned. Its interesting to read that “I might do it here and there to take the pressure off” what are your thoughts about that? Are you saying that the only way to take time out from life’s pressures is to use Heroin?? Can you remember a time when pressure was something that you dealt with in some other way? It’s a funny old game but it seems that when we chose to use a substance to cope with something that can be worked through without drugs we give up some of our own strength to the drug – allowing it to cope in or absence = does that make sense? That seems to be the pivotal point of danger for many folk once you give up your personal power to something else it’s like we dissolve our own fantastic abilities such as resilience. You are an artist of life and BROWN is but one colour you can paint with – get your brush out Mr Mat and lets see some positive pictures! Avoiding a physical habit is easy Mat – just don’t use on consecutive days and try and leave a few days in between using, aim for more junk free days in the week instead of using days. See The Heroin Users Handbook by francis Moraes The trouble is and always will be the mind games folk play or the psychological addiction – it is waiting in the wings to cover you in chocolate covered teeth time. Is it just me, or have you already started tasting the chocolate, instead of avoiding the sharp teeth?? I wish you well for the future Matt – its waiting to be developed by us all Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization >Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:16:12 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] digital photos nyc ibogaine forum
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:39:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard I will get them to you as soon as I figure out how to work the camera.

M.

From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:33:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt, ibo does not work for benzo’s. If you are taking them it will put you full WD.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:16:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi bb
i used ibo for 20mg meth H and other opidos/opiates benzos and i was in the most acute wd i was ever in……coming of h before was nothing compared to this…..but from what i read most people have slight wd but there are exceptions and i was one…..

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: jeffgd1@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox? Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:39:05 -0500 bb i used ibogaine to stop a 10 year 50mg/day methadone habit a little more than 5 months ago. It works…BUT..it is not the magic pill that in 2-3 days leaves you feeling jut great. It does do away with acute withdrawal symptoms, like magic! I never was more than a touch sick while under going my treatment. But the following weeks were very very hard on me. I was RAW and tho not classically dope sick was weak low low low energy and emotional (good and bad) It is the only way I would have ever been able to be done with the methadone but you need to expect a long period of post acute withdrawal symptoms (PAWS) Read patricks writngs on getting clean .The part about it taking a good 6 months to get your brain firing right again but it does happen and I am very gratefulk to have had the experience. Go for it! Jeff G —–Original Message—– From: bb <bbburtnick@webtv.net> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Sent: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:13:10 -0500 Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox? I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have signed on in hopes of discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from methadone. Then of course is the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention proper application. But first of all is the question of whether there is any genuine value for meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake comparatively, if you don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust me). Seems “rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless perhaps if the problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So does ibogaine differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal anyway? Respectfully-bb /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 5:15:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/23/05 4:17:38 PM, abductmeplease@hotmail.com writes:

Avoiding a physical habit is easy Mat – just don’t use on consecutive days
and try and leave a few days in between using, aim for more junk free days
in the week instead of using days. See The Heroin Users Handbook by francis
Moraes

Always more easily said than done.

Howard
http://www.doraweiner.org
http://www.ibogaine.org

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From: jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 23, 2005 at 4:39:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bb
i used ibogaine to stop a 10 year 50mg/day methadone habit a little more than 5 months ago. It works…BUT..it is not the magic pill that in 2-3 days leaves you feeling jut great.
It does do away with acute withdrawal symptoms, like magic! I never was more than a touch sick while under going my treatment.
But the following weeks were very very hard on me. I was RAW and tho not classically dope sick was weak low low low energy and emotional (good and bad)
It is the only way I would have ever been able to be done with the methadone but you need to expect a long period of post acute withdrawal symptoms (PAWS)
Read patricks writngs on getting clean .The part about it taking a good 6 months to get your brain firing right again but it does happen and I am very gratefulk to have had the experience.
Go for it!
Jeff G

—–Original Message—–
From: bb <bbburtnick@webtv.net>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 07:13:10 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?

I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have signed on in hopes of
discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from methadone. Then of course is
the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention proper application. But
first of all is the question of whether there is any genuine value for
meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake comparatively, if you
don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust me). Seems
“rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless perhaps if the
problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So does ibogaine
differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal anyway?
Respectfully-bb

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Drug took Stevenson face to face with Hyde
Date: March 23, 2005 at 4:34:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: Literature@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 6:09 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Drug took Stevenson face to face with Hyde

“The fact that Stevenson was injected with such a powerful drug just a couple of weeks before the writing of his famous story about personality-altering drugs has to be linked.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2090-1533605,00.html

Drug took Stevenson face to face with Hyde
Karin Goodwin

THE Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde was written by Robert Louis Stevenson under the influence of a hallucinogenic drug similar to LSD, according to new research.
Doctors believe the Scots author wrote the classic exploration of good and evil while being treated with a derivative of ergot, a potentially deadly hallucinogenic fungus.

The mould, which affects rye and wheat, caused mass poisonings during the Middle Ages. Victims suffered vivid hallucinations and convulsions, which were mistakenly believed to be symptoms of demonic possession. Many witch trials, including those in Salem, Massachusetts, in 1692, are believed to have been triggered by outbreaks of ergotism.
During the Victorian era, ergotine, a derivative of the fungus, was used by doctors to stop bleeding. Stevenson, who suffered from tuberculosis, was given injections of the drug to stop bleeding in his lungs.
Professor Robert Winston, the chair of the House of Lords select committee on science and technology, and Dr George Addis, a former consultant in medicine and therapeutics at Glasgow University, believe that the injections led to side-effects that created a “Mr Hyde-like” transformation in the author. Their findings will be revealed today in a BBC1 documentary.
They believe that they have found evidence in a recently uncovered letter, now held in Yale University’s archive, that shows Stevenson experienced spasms and hallucinations characteristic of an ergotine overdose.
In the letter, dated “end of August, early September 1885”, Stevenson’s wife wrote to William Henley, her husband’s friend and literary agent: “Louis’s mad behaviour . . . I think it must be the ergotine that affects his brain at such time.
“He is quite rational now, I am thankful to say, but he has just giving up insisting that he should be lifted into bed in a kneeling position, his face to the pillow.”
Two weeks later Stevenson began writing his famous work about the duality of human nature. The story recounts the adventures of Dr Jekyll, who takes drugs that separate the good and evil in his psyche. Although the doctor is purified, the evil Mr Hyde is created as a terrible side-effect.
Stevenson always claimed that the plot of Jekyll and Hyde came to him in a fevered dream while he was seriously ill. Yet in August 1885 his bleeding became so severe he was given at least one injection of ergotine, which is referred to in another letter.
In the BBC programme — The Adventures of Robert Louis Stevenson — Winston claims that ergotine was an important influence on Stevenson.
“Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde is about drug taking and the power of drugs which overtake his body completely and drive Dr Jekyll in a way that really is completely alien to him,” he says. “Maybe that’s what Stevenson is feeling with the use of the drugs that he’s taking, particularly ergotine. Perhaps he becomes a Mr Hyde himself.”
Andrew Thompson, the documentary’s producer and director, said the doctors’ findings could lead to important insights into Stevenson’s influences.
“The fact that Stevenson was injected with such a powerful drug just a couple of weeks before the writing of his famous story about personality-altering drugs has to be linked.”

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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 4:16:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Matt

Wow thanks for sharing that. Your journey is one of extreme experience and seems to go hand in and with a powerful addiction. It’s interesting that you felt a need to test yourself – I guess its quite common to undergo some boundary pushing. Damn those prescription drugs, they hand them out like sweets laced with razor wire. Interestingly some of the stuff that I’ve read would suggest that benzos are ineffective if prescribed for more than say one month. This is to do with the short half life and resulting fast development of tolerance. This seems to lead to symptoms such as, anxiety and insomnia – the very issues that they were prescribed for, they can create. Check this site out professor Ashton spent 3 years in a benzo reduction clinic and this is based on best practice from hands on experience http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

I’d like to say a massive well done for achieving 10 weeks clean (with a small hick up in between!) Heroin is simply Heroin it’s what WE do with the substances that create the problems. Some of us can take or leave this or that but some of us get stuck with the taking bit. I guess that’s something that you have learned. Its interesting to read that “I might do it here and there to take the pressure off” what are your thoughts about that? Are you saying that the only way to take time out from life’s pressures is to use Heroin?? Can you remember a time when pressure was something that you dealt with in some other way? It’s a funny old game but it seems that when we chose to use a substance to cope with something that can be worked through without drugs we give up some of our own strength to the drug – allowing it to cope in or absence = does that make sense? That seems to be the pivotal point of danger for many folk once you give up your personal power to something else it’s like we dissolve our own fantastic abilities such as resilience. You are an artist of life and BROWN is but one colour you can paint with – get your brush out Mr Mat and lets see some positive pictures!

Avoiding a physical habit is easy Mat – just don’t use on consecutive days and try and leave a few days in between using, aim for more junk free days in the week instead of using days. See The Heroin Users Handbook by francis Moraes

The trouble is and always will be the mind games folk play or the psychological addiction – it is waiting in the wings to cover you in chocolate covered teeth time. Is it just me, or have you already started tasting the chocolate, instead of avoiding the sharp teeth??

I wish you well for the future Matt – its waiting to be developed by us all
Much Love

Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:16:12 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 5:16:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
I love sharing my experience with anybody who will listen….i did acid and mushrooms ocasionly when i was 16-19 and had some meanigfull spirtual trips but never anything like this…. i got the insight into why i coldnt stop by a clear voice in my head stating those exact phrases ” u were always looking for reasons to start using instead of loking for reasons to stop…….and even if iu did manage to stop u would start again because u thought smack was devine……” and after that everything clicked …..but i had no imagees or visions of it…..just when the trip ended i anylezed that voice and understood that all my past failures of abstiance were exactly due to those errors….i was supose to do the ekg and blood test but in all honesty i didnt care if ibo killed me or cured me …i knew that people with hep c with liver enzymes above 200% should be excluded…..my liver enzymes were more than 500% above—-if im correct and i think iam—–.i was too far gone back then….i did ibo by my self in my room….i would definetly recomend somebody to watch over the other person ….no ifs or buts…my case of adiction is a bit complicated becasue i was seeing a psychiatrist during the 2 of my 5 years of adcition so i had a huge habit to benzos and a prety big habit to opioids/opiates becasue i was prescribed massive doesses of diazepam/lorazepam/clonazepam.bromazepam then the oxycontin or diluidid or morphine or fentanyl and it was all free –free for about two years with prescriptions coming every week -2 weeks –so u know…..but before ibo i was using half a gram a day of H with binges of oxy/diluaid/fentanyl whenever i had them…. IV…… also i continued with the benzos cause i still suffered from anxiety insomnia even if it was psycosomatic …although the benzos where not in such massive doses….
on tues its going to be exactly 10 weeks when i did ibo…..i used once 2 weeks ago and im REALLY glad i did because i confirmed to my self that junk is exactly that –JUNK…the reason i did use is i wanted to see if all that shit was worth all the fucken hussle…..it sure wasnt and definetly isnt….it feels good and all but its fucken dirty….the whole exp really put me off with the needles and spoons and seeing my junkie friend shaking from excitemtn when he was cookng his hit was fucken disgusting…..i puked my guts out for the rest of the day and i never puked on h before so that put off even more….i gave the rest of the half gram i bought to my junkie friend and got the fuck out of there……i might due it here and there to take the presure off but there is no way i could do it on a daily basis or even a weekend thing….i dont want to say i got it under control because its so fucken powerful but i feel extremly confident about ever getting a physical habit from it again…from that moment my cravings have almost vanished…take care brother


Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:52:24 +0000 Hi Mat Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you indulged in psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for sharing. I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you some insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always looking for reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of this or did the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way I’d love to know what they were. How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the tests done first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should be something from 2 days to a week – Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not? Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how did you use? IV smoke both etc. Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you tried before?? iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just don’t answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on abductmeplease@hotmail.com Much Love Chris _________________________________________________________________ It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 4:12:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow thanks for sharing that. Your journey is one of extreme experience and seems to go hand in and with a powerful addiction. It’s interesting that you felt a need to test yourself – I guess its quite common to undergo some boundary pushing. Damn those prescription drugs, they hand them out like sweets laced with razor wire. Interestingly some of the stuff that I’ve read would suggest that benzos are ineffective if prescribed for more than say one month. This is to do with the short half life and resulting fast development of tolerance. This seems to lead to symptoms such as, anxiety and insomnia – the very issues that they were prescribed for, they can create. Check this site out professor Ashton spent 3 years in a benzo reduction clinic and this is based on best practice from hands on experience http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/index.htm

I’d like to say a massive well done for achieving 10 weeks clean (with a small hick up in between!) Heroin is simply Heroin it’s what WE do with the substances that create the problems. Some of us can take or leave this or that but some of us get stuck with the taking bit. I guess that’s something that you have learned. Its interesting to read that “I might do it here and there to take the pressure off” what are your thoughts about that? Are you saying that the only way to take time out from life’s pressures is to use Heroin?? Can you remember a time when pressure was something that you dealt with in some other way? It’s a funny old game but it seems that when we chose to use a substance to cope with something that can be worked through without drugs we give up some of our own strength to the drug – allowing it to cope in or absence = does that make sense? That seems to be the pivotal point of danger for many folk once you give up your personal power to something else it’s like we dissolve our own fantastic abilities such as resilience. You are an artist of life and BROWN is but one colour you can paint with – get your brush out Mr Mat and lets see some positive pictures!

Avoiding a physical habit is easy its seems – just don’t use on consecutive days and try and leave a few days in between using, aim for more junk free days in the week instead of using days. See The Heroin Users Handbook by francis Moraes he make it look easy but….

The trouble is and always will be the mind games folk play or the psychological addiction – it is waiting in the wings to cover you in chocolate covered teeth time. Is it just me, or have you already started tasting the chocolate, instead of avoiding the sharp teeth??

I wish you well for the future Matt – its waiting to be developed by us all
Much Love

Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 17:16:12 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 5:16:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
I love sharing my experience with anybody who will listen….i did acid and mushrooms ocasionly when i was 16-19 and had some meanigfull spirtual trips but never anything like this…. i got the insight into why i coldnt stop by a clear voice in my head stating those exact phrases ” u were always looking for reasons to start using instead of loking for reasons to stop…….and even if iu did manage to stop u would start again because u thought smack was devine……” and after that everything clicked …..but i had no imagees or visions of it…..just when the trip ended i anylezed that voice and understood that all my past failures of abstiance were exactly due to those errors….i was supose to do the ekg and blood test but in all honesty i didnt care if ibo killed me or cured me …i knew that people with hep c with liver enzymes above 200% should be excluded…..my liver enzymes were more than 500% above—-if im correct and i think iam—–.i was too far gone back then….i did ibo by my self in my room….i would definetly recomend somebody to watch over the other person ….no ifs or buts…my case of adiction is a bit complicated becasue i was seeing a psychiatrist during the 2 of my 5 years of adcition so i had a huge habit to benzos and a prety big habit to opioids/opiates becasue i was prescribed massive doesses of diazepam/lorazepam/clonazepam.bromazepam then the oxycontin or diluidid or morphine or fentanyl and it was all free –free for about two years with prescriptions coming every week -2 weeks –so u know…..but before ibo i was using half a gram a day of H with binges of oxy/diluaid/fentanyl whenever i had them…. IV…… also i continued with the benzos cause i still suffered from anxiety insomnia even if it was psycosomatic …although the benzos where not in such massive doses….
on tues its going to be exactly 10 weeks when i did ibo…..i used once 2 weeks ago and im REALLY glad i did because i confirmed to my self that junk is exactly that –JUNK…the reason i did use is i wanted to see if all that shit was worth all the fucken hussle…..it sure wasnt and definetly isnt….it feels good and all but its fucken dirty….the whole exp really put me off with the needles and spoons and seeing my junkie friend shaking from excitemtn when he was cookng his hit was fucken disgusting…..i puked my guts out for the rest of the day and i never puked on h before so that put off even more….i gave the rest of the half gram i bought to my junkie friend and got the fuck out of there……i might due it here and there to take the presure off but there is no way i could do it on a daily basis or even a weekend thing….i dont want to say i got it under control because its so fucken powerful but i feel extremly confident about ever getting a physical habit from it again…from that moment my cravings have almost vanished…take care brother


Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:52:24 +0000 Hi Mat Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you indulged in psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for sharing. I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you some insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always looking for reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of this or did the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way I’d love to know what they were. How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the tests done first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should be something from 2 days to a week – Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not? Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how did you use? IV smoke both etc. Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you tried before?? iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just don’t answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on abductmeplease@hotmail.com Much Love Chris _________________________________________________________________ It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 3:34:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Note that big ;-)) at the end of the snippet Nick- and also note the quote
marks around “not in my club” which while note directly quoting you, it was
pretty blantantly paraphrasing your immediately preceding note saying:<

And come to think of it, (I remember now what I was thinking when I wrote that) why the hell would “my club” automatically in your mind equal “junkie” or “addict” Nick? I wasn’t thinking either term or catagory whatsoever when I wrote that- I meant more that you are so nowhere near my way of thinking and behaving towards other people, as near as I can tell from our numerous exchanges here, that you are “not in my club” at all, so I am tired of debating with you over nothing important whatsoever.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

>You wrote back that you were starting to listen to this but then
realized that I wasn’t a junkie and so couldn’t know where you were at.<

I did?
What I wrote really was:

I almost let you get my goat here Nick, but then realized yet again, you are
so “not in my club” that you aren’t worth my bother any more.
;-))<

Note that big ;-)) at the end of the snippet Nick- and also note the quote marks around “not in my club” which while note directly quoting you, it was pretty blantantly paraphrasing your immediately preceding note saying:

I figure saying this stuff is just a way for Preston and others to keep us out. “You haven’t been a heroin addict so I don’t have to listen to what you have to say.”<

“Kee you out” of where Nick? I’m completely joking when writing “you’re not in my club” because what you’re saying in the above is so patently ridiculous I couldn’t help myself- and felt it better tact to use humor rather than yet more exasperation- because what I was really saying what that I am tired of this endless going around in circles where you basically accuse me of one attitude or another when they haven’t a thing to do with me ever and how I’m tired of taking so much time to respond to such silliness out of you AND YET here I am yet again wasting time (and yes, I’m wasting time here because I have SO MUCH WORK TO DO- but must admit I too enjoy “debating” if that’s what one might call what you and I are doing here, so continue to find myself unable to resist…oh shit, am I addicted to debating with Nick Sandberg? Oh no, that would not be a good thing. What could I take/use/experience/practice to help break me of THAT habit? LOL!)
So Nick, go back to your sentence to start this, and then read my answer-
Nick, it’s not that you haven’t been a junkie that leaves me unwilling to take you very seriously- it’s your insistance on insisting that all opiate users are somehow either damaged or damaging themselves and are not living a “full” life in YOUR estimation. It’s such a haughty attitude that I get myself very irritated by it and find myself writing these long screeds telling you so, which you continue to take as me telling you you aren’t an ex-junkie or current junkie so I’m not listening to you…etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
So I’m ending this here whether I’ve really made my point clear or not- I’m tired of this endless silly “debating” with you when you simply don’t see the world the way I do and insist that the way I look at the world is wrong, over and over and over again. It bores me, and not because you aren’t/haven’t been a junkie (although I will admit to wondering how you yourself feel you know so much about what effects it has on someone’s ability to live a “fullsome” life- other than from you unability to break your brother of his use using ibogaine)- that fact is utterly irrelevent to any other part of our conversation.
Basically, what works for you is great Nick and I am honestly happy you’ve found a way to get through your life in the best way for you, but your continued, endless insisting that what works for you will work best for everyone, and that your views on users of this or that substance I most often find to be utter bullshit (and other may and probably do disagree with me and do agree with you, and that is COOL WITH ME TOO- so long as I’m not told I must bend/conform/change to fit your idea of “right” “best” “better” “only” way to live my life), to be blunt about it, and THAT is why I don’t take you seriously- and don’t want to keep taking up so much of my work time responding to you.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 March 2005 06:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

HI all,
I have posted this report of my own first ibo voyage here
before, but in
light of some others reposting and simply posting their experiences, I
thought what the heck, perhaps I should do the same, so here’s my
repost of
my report of my initial intiation into the ibo club (one Nick I believe
belongs to too, so in that role I CAN listen to you Nick – and I’m joking
with you Nick. BTW, you’re still misreading and misquoting me at every
opportunity and I’m now at the point where everything you post
with my name
on it get’s immediately deleted. Our blatant dislike for one
another doesn’t
have to keep popping up on the public list for everyone to share
in- I don’t
like the way you insist on pretending I’m unwilling to listen to
you because
you aren’t a junkie or former junkie, and it appears you are
simply going to
insist that has some basis in reality- or at least you have zero
respect for
me and anything I’ve so far written and said as near as I can
tell from each
and every reply you have to anything I write is any indication.
Admit it Nick, I drive you crazy because I use lots of very strong
medically prescribed opiates legally and don’t seem to suffer all the
stereotypical life problems you seem convinced I have to suffer if I want
(and NEED) to use opiates- and it depresses and pisses you off because I
don’t fit into the mold you keep trying to stuff me into.
Anyway, here’s my own report of my own first ibo experience,
for those
who’ve arrive here since last August.

Hi Preston,

You don’t drive me crazy. I don’t feel like massively engaged with you. I
like to debate with you and personally I’d say I like you. For sure we
haven’t met yet, but one day.

I don’t really see how I’m misreading and misquoting you, to be honest. Can
you give me an example? I wrote the other day that I thought you dismissed
arguments presented to you that came from non-addicts, or non former
addicts, on the grounds that we didn’t know anything about drugs or drug
treatment. You wrote back that you were starting to listen to this but then
realized that I wasn’t a junkie and so couldn’t know where you were at.
Well, frankly, I’d say you were reinforcing what I was saying really.

I am happy that your life on drugs is good. I don’t feel depressed by it. If
you want to use drugs, what’s the problem? My position is I like to try and
move people towards not using heroin but it’s a waste of time except with
people who at least partly want to. I mean, we debate away but really,
anyone who didn’t want to listen would just tell me to fuck off. But you
stick with it and write long things justifying how you are, as if you need
to justify how you are, which tells me that somewhere you don’t really buy
your own position. I’m happy you’re like that.

Nick

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
(image)
Ibogaine
“Watch for communications soon from another friend of ours,” the
Voice said,
almost giggling with glee. “He’s gonna have a number for you to
call, to get
in touch with some folk doing underground, guerilla ibogaine
treatments in
NYC, this coming August.”
Immediately I’m feeling all sorts of conflicting emotions.
Because here it
is, no more talking about wanting to do it, or wondering on this or that
email list what the effects are and if it really, really does work to
interrupt or cure or help people get over a wide variety of
addictions. If
it is here in my own city and I can get it at much cheaper rates
than were I
to fly to some foreign country where it’s either legal or simply not
regulated at all yet, how in the hell am I, a seasoned, proud
proponent of
cognitive liberty and the free taking of powerful mind expanding drugs, a
veritable Drug Expert, Author and psychonaut, going to live it down if I
chicken out and say, “oh, no thank you”?
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL

There’s also a brief interview with the man responsible for ibogaine
reaching NYC streets via guerilla
treatments just below the “kicking drugs with drugs” piece on the
mainpage
at DrugWar.com.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

(NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004
On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower East Side,
between my own
first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African root that has been
reported useful in the kicking of a variety of substance addictions and
self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers and private
individuals,
I carried out the following interview. I met in Tompkins Square Park with
FM, who for the month of August was leading a band of guerilla ibogaine
treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of people with
ibogaine for
myriad reasons.
Having been one of the lucky few who made contact with this group and was
initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was interested in hearing more
about the man who made this experience possible for me and many other New
York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL)

Enjoy all and wish me luck finally traveling tomorrow- Five hours to go
before I get picked up at my door to go to the airport- boy do I have the
butterflies in my guts right now- I gotta smoke some pot or something.
Sorry all, I sometimes I can’t help lashing out with humorous
slurs at
Nick- but it doesn’t have anything to do with ibogaine or anything
constructive at all, so I apologize for allowing myself such
petty pleasures
publicly.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

> Hi Mat
>
> Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you
indulged in
> psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for > sharing.
>
> I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you
> some
> insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always
looking for
> reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of
this or did
> the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way
I’d love to
> know what they were.
>
> How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the
tests done
> first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should > be
> something from 2 days to a week –
>
> Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not?
> Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? > how
> did
> you use? IV smoke both etc.
> Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you
tried before??
> iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just
> don’t
> answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on
> abductmeplease@hotmail.com
>
> Much Love
>
> Chris
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today!
> http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
>

>
>
>
/]=—————————————————————
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> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
>
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——=[/
>

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\]=—————————————————————
——=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 23, 2005 at 12:34:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You wrote back that you were starting to listen to this but then
realized that I wasn’t a junkie and so couldn’t know where you were at.<

I did?
What I wrote really was:

I almost let you get my goat here Nick, but then realized yet again, you are
so “not in my club” that you aren’t worth my bother any more.
;-))<

Note that big ;-)) at the end of the snippet Nick- and also note the quote marks around “not in my club” which while note directly quoting you, it was pretty blantantly paraphrasing your immediately preceding note saying:

I figure saying this stuff is just a way for Preston and others to keep us out. “You haven’t been a heroin addict so I don’t have to listen to what you have to say.”<

“Kee you out” of where Nick? I’m completely joking when writing “you’re not in my club” because what you’re saying in the above is so patently ridiculous I couldn’t help myself- and felt it better tact to use humor rather than yet more exasperation- because what I was really saying what that I am tired of this endless going around in circles where you basically accuse me of one attitude or another when they haven’t a thing to do with me ever and how I’m tired of taking so much time to respond to such silliness out of you AND YET here I am yet again wasting time (and yes, I’m wasting time here because I have SO MUCH WORK TO DO- but must admit I too enjoy “debating” if that’s what one might call what you and I are doing here, so continue to find myself unable to resist…oh shit, am I addicted to debating with Nick Sandberg? Oh no, that would not be a good thing. What could I take/use/experience/practice to help break me of THAT habit? LOL!)
So Nick, go back to your sentence to start this, and then read my answer-
Nick, it’s not that you haven’t been a junkie that leaves me unwilling to take you very seriously- it’s your insistance on insisting that all opiate users are somehow either damaged or damaging themselves and are not living a “full” life in YOUR estimation. It’s such a haughty attitude that I get myself very irritated by it and find myself writing these long screeds telling you so, which you continue to take as me telling you you aren’t an ex-junkie or current junkie so I’m not listening to you…etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.
So I’m ending this here whether I’ve really made my point clear or not- I’m tired of this endless silly “debating” with you when you simply don’t see the world the way I do and insist that the way I look at the world is wrong, over and over and over again. It bores me, and not because you aren’t/haven’t been a junkie (although I will admit to wondering how you yourself feel you know so much about what effects it has on someone’s ability to live a “fullsome” life- other than from you unability to break your brother of his use using ibogaine)- that fact is utterly irrelevent to any other part of our conversation.
Basically, what works for you is great Nick and I am honestly happy you’ve found a way to get through your life in the best way for you, but your continued, endless insisting that what works for you will work best for everyone, and that your views on users of this or that substance I most often find to be utter bullshit (and other may and probably do disagree with me and do agree with you, and that is COOL WITH ME TOO- so long as I’m not told I must bend/conform/change to fit your idea of “right” “best” “better” “only” way to live my life), to be blunt about it, and THAT is why I don’t take you seriously- and don’t want to keep taking up so much of my work time responding to you.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 March 2005 06:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

HI all,
I have posted this report of my own first ibo voyage here
before, but in
light of some others reposting and simply posting their experiences, I
thought what the heck, perhaps I should do the same, so here’s my
repost of
my report of my initial intiation into the ibo club (one Nick I believe
belongs to too, so in that role I CAN listen to you Nick – and I’m joking
with you Nick. BTW, you’re still misreading and misquoting me at every
opportunity and I’m now at the point where everything you post
with my name
on it get’s immediately deleted. Our blatant dislike for one
another doesn’t
have to keep popping up on the public list for everyone to share
in- I don’t
like the way you insist on pretending I’m unwilling to listen to
you because
you aren’t a junkie or former junkie, and it appears you are
simply going to
insist that has some basis in reality- or at least you have zero
respect for
me and anything I’ve so far written and said as near as I can
tell from each
and every reply you have to anything I write is any indication.
Admit it Nick, I drive you crazy because I use lots of very strong
medically prescribed opiates legally and don’t seem to suffer all the
stereotypical life problems you seem convinced I have to suffer if I want
(and NEED) to use opiates- and it depresses and pisses you off because I
don’t fit into the mold you keep trying to stuff me into.
Anyway, here’s my own report of my own first ibo experience,
for those
who’ve arrive here since last August.

Hi Preston,

You don’t drive me crazy. I don’t feel like massively engaged with you. I
like to debate with you and personally I’d say I like you. For sure we
haven’t met yet, but one day.

I don’t really see how I’m misreading and misquoting you, to be honest. Can
you give me an example? I wrote the other day that I thought you dismissed
arguments presented to you that came from non-addicts, or non former
addicts, on the grounds that we didn’t know anything about drugs or drug
treatment. You wrote back that you were starting to listen to this but then
realized that I wasn’t a junkie and so couldn’t know where you were at.
Well, frankly, I’d say you were reinforcing what I was saying really.

I am happy that your life on drugs is good. I don’t feel depressed by it. If
you want to use drugs, what’s the problem? My position is I like to try and
move people towards not using heroin but it’s a waste of time except with
people who at least partly want to. I mean, we debate away but really,
anyone who didn’t want to listen would just tell me to fuck off. But you
stick with it and write long things justifying how you are, as if you need
to justify how you are, which tells me that somewhere you don’t really buy
your own position. I’m happy you’re like that.

Nick

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
(image)
Ibogaine
“Watch for communications soon from another friend of ours,” the
Voice said,
almost giggling with glee. “He’s gonna have a number for you to
call, to get
in touch with some folk doing underground, guerilla ibogaine
treatments in
NYC, this coming August.”
Immediately I’m feeling all sorts of conflicting emotions.
Because here it
is, no more talking about wanting to do it, or wondering on this or that
email list what the effects are and if it really, really does work to
interrupt or cure or help people get over a wide variety of
addictions. If
it is here in my own city and I can get it at much cheaper rates
than were I
to fly to some foreign country where it’s either legal or simply not
regulated at all yet, how in the hell am I, a seasoned, proud
proponent of
cognitive liberty and the free taking of powerful mind expanding drugs, a
veritable Drug Expert, Author and psychonaut, going to live it down if I
chicken out and say, “oh, no thank you”?
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL

There’s also a brief interview with the man responsible for ibogaine
reaching NYC streets via guerilla
treatments just below the “kicking drugs with drugs” piece on the
mainpage
at DrugWar.com.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

(NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004
On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower East Side,
between my own
first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African root that has been
reported useful in the kicking of a variety of substance addictions and
self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers and private
individuals,
I carried out the following interview. I met in Tompkins Square Park with
FM, who for the month of August was leading a band of guerilla ibogaine
treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of people with
ibogaine for
myriad reasons.
Having been one of the lucky few who made contact with this group and was
initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was interested in hearing more
about the man who made this experience possible for me and many other New
York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL)

Enjoy all and wish me luck finally traveling tomorrow- Five hours to go
before I get picked up at my door to go to the airport- boy do I have the
butterflies in my guts right now- I gotta smoke some pot or something.
Sorry all, I sometimes I can’t help lashing out with humorous
slurs at
Nick- but it doesn’t have anything to do with ibogaine or anything
constructive at all, so I apologize for allowing myself such
petty pleasures
publicly.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

> Hi Mat
>
> Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you
indulged in
> psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for > sharing.
>
> I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you
> some
> insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always
looking for
> reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of
this or did
> the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way
I’d love to
> know what they were.
>
> How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the
tests done
> first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should > be
> something from 2 days to a week –
>
> Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not?
> Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how
> did
> you use? IV smoke both etc.
> Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you
tried before??
> iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just
> don’t
> answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on
> abductmeplease@hotmail.com
>
> Much Love
>
> Chris
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today!
> http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
>

>
>
>
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [DrugWar] Fw: Second daily dosing with buprenorphine. Does it ‘work’ for all?
Date: March 23, 2005 at 12:01:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:41 PM
Subject: Second daily dosing with buprenorphine. Does it ‘work’ for all?

Buprenorphine treatment for opioid dependence: the relative efficacy of daily, twice and thrice weekly dosing. Marsch LA, Bickel WK, Badger GJ, Jacobs EA. Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2005) 77;2:195-204

Dear Colleagues,
Contrasting with most clinical experience, veteran researcher Bickel and colleagues report no differences between twice, thrice or seven day attendance for buprenorphine.  Their 24 week randomised trial examines urine toxicology, retention and behavioural/health outcomes, all of which were comparable between the three groups attending for supervised buprenorphine dosing 2, 3 or 7 times per week.  These results do not necessarily mean that the treatments were ‘equally efficacious’.

While these authors looked at outcomes they did not look at patient preferences and reasons for treatment failures (drop-outs).  It is possible that the same numbers dropped out of each group but for different reasons. Longer duration between dosing has advantages and disadvantages from the patients’ point of view so only a ‘blinded’ study design with all patients attending daily for the length of the study (such as that of Perez et al. with its own weaknesses) is able to test this hypothesis scientifically. Marsch’s trial was only double blind for the first fortnight.  It did carefully stratify patients including by distance travelled for dosing (some took over an hour to get to the clinic!).

This trial was performed in Vermont, one of the last US states to adopt methadone treatment for addiction (due in part to the resistance of long serving governor Dr Howard Dean – he wrote to me once of his reasons). Alternative opioid maintenance services were at many hours drive in adjacent states or Canada.  Such a setting could affect outcomes, as well as its ‘generalisability’.  At the end of this trial, all patients were prescribed compulsory reductions of 1mg every four days.  The positive outcomes reported by these authors clearly demonstrate how inappropriate (if inevitable) such ‘disposal’ of voluntary subjects is and may be a source of discomfort for them.

Marsch, Bickel and colleagues used a liquid formulation which apparently has approximately double the bio-availability of the currently marketed sub-lingual tablets.  Unfortunately, this further distances their work from current clinical practice.  Their mean dose was just under 8mg daily equivalent and it is commendable that they titrated doses carefully against patients’ needs rather than using fixed doses as in some other American research.  The authors seem to conclude that daily dosing is not necessary which is at odds with clinical practice.  Their results do not explain how individual cases may have metabolic half lives as short as 9 hours and might even need twice daily doses (McAleer et al.) as preferred by some in clinical practice.  It is possible that ‘streaming’ patients by clinical parameters or even just preference may obtain even better results in some groups.

I interviewed a number of senior Australian and American clinicians to find out their experience in community settings with availability of numerous treatment modalities (albeit with costs, limited access, wait-lists, etc) with daily versus second daily treatment.  In well over 1000 individual treatment experiences these doctors agreed that no more than half of their patients could or would tolerate second daily attendance for buprenorphine. One colleague in New York even reported a significant proportion with a twice-daily preference.  Thus, in view of the obvious practical benefits, second daily dosing should always be a consideration, yet we know that it is not suitable for all patients and especially not for inductions and reduction courses.

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

my thanks to WKB and LAM for some helpful suggestions in an earlier draft of this summary.

Marsch LA, Bickel WK, Badger GJ, Jacobs EA. Buprenorphine treatment for opioid dependence: the relative efficacy of daily, twice and thrice weekly dosing. Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2005) 77;2:195-204

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 23, 2005 at 11:36:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Lets say that the word addiction didnt exist and people would use heroin  on a daily basis for years on end.  Would that be a learned behaviour comparable to other learned behaviours as for example eating food>?  you can go without food for a few days and u can function ok…u can get up… u can sleep….what about with H….try going without H for a few days …..i think if the word adiction didnt exist and we would never prohibited people from using whatever they wanted society as a whole would still put labels on people who use….i mean if u see someone everyday high on H just noding off and dreaming away what kind of conclusion could u come up with>? it sure is a great feeling and all but can u waste ur life in this vegetative state….u are not really functioning u dont really exist…..if u never tried H and u see someone in an extatic state dreaming away u would definetly want to try yet when u see that person again and he is in wd for whatever reason i bet u would think twice….but if all drugs were free and accesible all the time things would be much diff….

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:16:14 -0000 —–Original Message—– From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk] Sent: 23 March 2005 13:31 To: Ibogaine List Subject: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency Hi Peter, Having had such a strong reaction to your views and not wishing to be a bigot I feel obliged to try and understand your position a little better. I hope you will be good enough to read what I have wrote here as I have given it a little thought. I guess if it were not for the spiritual aspects of the discussion I would not have ever got into this in the first place but here goes. Disease vs Dependency It seems to me that what you are arguing is that the label of addiction as disease as opposed to the label of addiction as dependency, feeds into the “enemy” camps view that drugs should be outlawed as they support a disease and are a disease. By describing drug addiction as a straightforward physical dependence we cease to associate the label of diseased to someone who is drug dependent. (Of course the person who is dependent may have underlying diseases (psycho-spiritual for example) which keeps the dependence in place. You accept that I believe. Of course they theoretically may not.) Hey Lee, Though it’s a bit crazy to start debating over what Peter’s views MIGHT be, I think what he was saying was that the whole concept of addiction or dependency ITSELF is invalid. These are just medical labels, given by bigots, to perfectly healthy individuals merely altering their daily consciousness through use of substances as is their inalienable right as free people. The whole concept of addiction or dependence is thus invalid. What you or I might label “dependency” I think he would consider simply “learned behaviour,” no different from any other learned behaviour, drug-oriented or otherwise. There’s quite a few people out there who believe this. It’s a good way of looking things, I think. If it’s so then you need to rewrite this piece avoiding terms like “dependency.” Could be interesting! (Of course, the above might not be his view.) Where we got to, in debating, was Howard pointing out that the language used by many ibogaine proponents, rooted in the medical phraseology of “addiction” that Peter so resents, arose originally from the action of bringing greater awareness of ibogaine’s dependence-breaking characteristics to the medical community; that you had to use their language to talk to them. At this point Dr Cohen broke off communications, stating to me, seemingly of Howard’s view, that it was the “language of the medical entrepreneur within a deeply and devout prohibitionist system.” Really a shame the debate didn’t continue, as it is interesting. I guess the central questions for me are, “Is it wrong to bring ibogaine to the market to treat a condition the acceptance of the existence of which may exacerbate the condition itself? Which is truly best, to destroy the mindset that labels some people as dependent, or to treat dependence?” Nick Thus in fighting for the right to take drugs we are fighting not to promote a disease but to give people choice when we remove the label of disease. I like that manner of seeing things as it removes a lot of stigma attached to drug taking and allows those who are not suffering from an addiction to not be labeled diseased. Thus it would be important to you that the ibo-camp revise their language of addiction as disease, and instead refer to addiction as dependence, as ibogaine is growing in strength and popularity and therefore a popularised disease model could undermine your arguments for drug liberalisation. Ibogaine as Cure or Ibogaine as Addiction Interruptor Within your view ibogaine can then be considered a tool for addition interruption but the problem comes in for you (as I see it) when ibogaine advocates describe their work as a cure for addiction. To remain within your viewpoint they should describe it as addiction interruption. Ibogaine as Addiction Interruption If we use this description of ibogaine then the question of its spirituality becomes an awkward issue. What point does it serve? If it is curing something other than addiction as dependency then that suggests a disease. What is the disease? If its not the dependency then what is it? Ok, I agree it is not the dependency. I have many times stated that healing can involve a relapse into dependence but that that should not be seen as a failure to heal but simply a step along the way – if your aim is to heal the underlying issues supporting the dependence which will emerge with verocity from time to time. (Some argue that it can be purely genetic.) Conclusion We seem to both agree that the problem is not the addiction as such but what lies behind or supports it, i.e. addiction is not the disease. In that case I would say we could label ibogaine as an addiction interruptor which also opens the door to a psycho-spiritual realm which allows the taker to examine & heal with the right intention the underlying reasons why they are unable to simply taper off their dependence as you suggest and become drug free if that is what they wish. Saying that as things stand the current language of the ibo-camp appears to be the elimination of drugs as opposed to the liberalisation of drug policies which you advocate. Question: Why is this aspect of treating the underlying disease (if one exists) via eboga spirituality something to be undermined or played down? Are you willing to meet halfway and agree that ibogaine has perhaps revolutionary properties to deal with underlying disease, if on the other hand the ibo camp can change its language to describe ibogaine as an addiction interruptor and not a cure for addiction? With love, Lee PS I sent this email to Peter seperately. Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period. www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc: www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hi Randy!!!!
Date: March 23, 2005 at 11:10:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/20/05 4:44:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:
What about you? To stay clean and to be an adult one is still hard for you
too? But I suppose you are in the ‘normal life’ already. But I think there
is so many dificulties in our ‘ clean’ lifes…

Please write me. Your valuable comments are very improtand for me.

Wormest Regards
M
M, it’s so good to hear you are getting married. I’ve been gone for a while on my quest, and was watching the list but not saying anything. I saw your note, and am getting back with you now. I don’t know how much of a normal life I will ever lead, but I’m still clean and trying to at least appear normal. (LOL) I’m working on educating people in KY about Ibogaine and it’s coming around. It looks like to me that there are a lot of people on Methadone down there who are tired of doing what they are doing. Good people who work hard, and feed their families. I also found out something pretty disturbing to me. Women are getting pregnant just to get on Methadone. My friend is running a program that is accepting almost 80 per cent women who are pregnant. He set it up so that they can go to a separate “house” for women for the first month to get stable on Methadone and then into a program to get them support during the pregnancy with all kinds of outside help with issues that come up for her and her child. What is disturbing to me is the need for these women to get pregnant to get the help. The government has made it such a problem for people to get the help that they need that it has come to this. Thank God for Jim Baum in Kentucky for putting the foresight into this, and helping them. This guy deserves another award for this. Think maybe Ibogaine could help these people?            Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 23, 2005 at 10:16:14 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Lee Albert [mailto:my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: 23 March 2005 13:31
To: Ibogaine List
Subject: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency

Hi Peter,

Having had such a strong reaction to your views and not wishing to be a bigot I feel obliged to try and understand your position a little better. I hope you will be good enough to read what I have wrote here as I have given it a little thought. I guess if it were not for the spiritual aspects of the discussion I would not have ever got into this in the first place but here goes.

Disease vs Dependency

It seems to me that what you are arguing is that the label of addiction as disease as opposed to the label of addiction as dependency, feeds into the “enemy” camps view that drugs should be outlawed as they support a disease and are a disease.

By describing drug addiction as a straightforward physical dependence we cease to associate the label of diseased to someone who is drug dependent. (Of course the person who is dependent may have underlying diseases (psycho-spiritual for example) which keeps the dependence in place. You accept that I believe. Of course they theoretically may not.)

Hey Lee,

Though it’s a bit crazy to start debating over what Peter’s views MIGHT be, I think what he was saying was that the whole concept of addiction or dependency ITSELF is invalid. These are just medical labels, given by bigots, to perfectly healthy individuals merely altering their daily consciousness through use of substances as is their inalienable right as free people. The whole concept of addiction or dependence is thus invalid.

What you or I might label “dependency” I think he would consider simply “learned behaviour,” no different from any other learned behaviour, drug-oriented or otherwise. There’s quite a few people out there who believe this. It’s a good way of looking things, I think.

If it’s so then you need to rewrite this piece avoiding terms like “dependency.” Could be interesting! (Of course, the above might not be his view.)

Where we got to, in debating, was Howard pointing out that the language used by many ibogaine proponents, rooted in the medical phraseology of “addiction” that Peter so resents, arose originally from the action of bringing greater awareness of ibogaine’s dependence-breaking characteristics to the medical community; that you had to use their language to talk to them. At this point Dr Cohen broke off communications, stating to me, seemingly of Howard’s view, that it was the “language of the medical entrepreneur within a deeply and devout prohibitionist system.” Really a shame the debate didn’t continue, as it is interesting.

I guess the central questions for me are, “Is it wrong to bring ibogaine to the market to treat a condition the acceptance of the existence of which may exacerbate the condition itself? Which is truly best, to destroy the mindset that labels some people as dependent, or to treat dependence?”

Nick

Thus in fighting for the right to take drugs we are fighting not to promote a disease but to give people choice when we remove the label of disease.

I like that manner of seeing things as it removes a lot of stigma attached to drug taking and allows those who are not suffering from an addiction to not be labeled diseased.

Thus it would be important to you that the ibo-camp revise their language of addiction as disease, and instead refer to addiction as dependence, as ibogaine is growing in strength and popularity and therefore a popularised disease model could undermine your arguments for drug liberalisation.

Ibogaine as Cure or Ibogaine as Addiction Interruptor

Within your view ibogaine can then be considered a tool for addition interruption but the problem comes in for you (as I see it) when ibogaine advocates describe their work as a cure for addiction. To remain within your viewpoint they should describe it as addiction interruption.

Ibogaine as Addiction Interruption

If we use this description of ibogaine then the question of its spirituality becomes an awkward issue. What point does it serve? If it is curing something other than addiction as dependency then that suggests a disease. What is the disease? If its not the dependency then what is it?

Ok, I agree it is not the dependency. I have many times stated that healing can involve a relapse into dependence but that that should not be seen as a failure to heal but simply a step along the way – if your aim is to heal the underlying issues supporting the dependence which will emerge with verocity from time to time. (Some argue that it can be purely genetic.)

Conclusion

We seem to both agree that the problem is not the addiction as such but what lies behind or supports it, i.e. addiction is not the disease.

In that case I would say we could label ibogaine as an addiction interruptor which also opens the door to a psycho-spiritual realm which allows the taker to examine & heal with the right intention the underlying reasons why they are unable to simply taper off their dependence as you suggest and become drug free if that is what they wish.

Saying that as things stand the current language of the ibo-camp appears to be the elimination of drugs as opposed to the liberalisation of drug policies which you advocate.

Question:

Why is this aspect of treating the underlying disease (if one exists) via eboga spirituality something to be undermined or played down? Are you willing to meet halfway and agree that ibogaine has perhaps revolutionary properties to deal with underlying disease, if on the other hand the ibo camp can change its language to describe ibogaine as an addiction interruptor and not a cure for addiction?

With love,

Lee

PS I sent this email to Peter seperately.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 23, 2005 at 9:23:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/22/05 1:20:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Dana wrote this I think
its apparently not self-evident from their point of view: if you
support self-determination about what one chooses to do with one´s body
than you have to support legalization of ibogaine, too. if one of
peters friends is treated at sara´s, than the cohen-camp cannot be
radically anti-ibo
I think Peter should go see Sara. I wish I could go with him.     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 23, 2005 at 9:09:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/22/05 3:18:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:
yo! acceptance and love! even to blasphemous Peter Cohen 😉
acceptance and love is the best advertisment for ibogaine! and for
spirituality, too.
much better than insults.

cheers ekki
Amen brother. Couldn’t say it better.     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:57:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marcus, I think you are correct sir. I read that here a while back and it is Burrow’s. If it’s not it’s someone who has read a lot of Burrow’s.            Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:52:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/22/05 3:53:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ajtcservice@aol.com writes:
I have learned a lot the past two weeks while reading all the e-mails.  I just want to say thanks to all for the good, useful information and to some for the entertaining debates.  I hope not to offend anyone with that statement, because I too will be drawn into one of those debates, I’m sure.

Annie
Annie, good to see you here. Jump right in on the debates, it’s what keeps us here. Mindvox has been a God send to me. It is also a source of great entertainment when feeling wacked out by life. Keep your head up and don’t give up. It’ll happen.              Randy

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Disease vs Dependency
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:30:49 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Peter,

Having had such a strong reaction to your views and not wishing to be a bigot I feel obliged to try and understand your position a little better. I hope you will be good enough to read what I have wrote here as I have given it a little thought. I guess if it were not for the spiritual aspects of the discussion I would not have ever got into this in the first place but here goes.

Disease vs Dependency

It seems to me that what you are arguing is that the label of addiction as disease as opposed to the label of addiction as dependency, feeds into the “enemy” camps view that drugs should be outlawed as they support a disease and are a disease.

By describing drug addiction as a straightforward physical dependence we cease to associate the label of diseased to someone who is drug dependent. (Of course the person who is dependent may have underlying diseases (psycho-spiritual for example) which keeps the dependence in place. You accept that I believe. Of course they theoretically may not.)

Thus in fighting for the right to take drugs we are fighting not to promote a disease but to give people choice when we remove the label of disease.

I like that manner of seeing things as it removes a lot of stigma attached to drug taking and allows those who are not suffering from an addiction to not be labeled diseased.

Thus it would be important to you that the ibo-camp revise their language of addiction as disease, and instead refer to addiction as dependence, as ibogaine is growing in strength and popularity and therefore a popularised disease model could undermine your arguments for drug liberalisation.

Ibogaine as Cure or Ibogaine as Addiction Interruptor

Within your view ibogaine can then be considered a tool for addition interruption but the problem comes in for you (as I see it) when ibogaine advocates describe their work as a cure for addiction. To remain within your viewpoint they should describe it as addiction interruption.

Ibogaine as Addiction Interruption

If we use this description of ibogaine then the question of its spirituality becomes an awkward issue. What point does it serve? If it is curing something other than addiction as dependency then that suggests a disease. What is the disease? If its not the dependency then what is it?

Ok, I agree it is not the dependency. I have many times stated that healing can involve a relapse into dependence but that that should not be seen as a failure to heal but simply a step along the way – if your aim is to heal the underlying issues supporting the dependence which will emerge with verocity from time to time. (Some argue that it can be purely genetic.)

Conclusion

We seem to both agree that the problem is not the addiction as such but what lies behind or supports it, i.e. addiction is not the disease.

In that case I would say we could label ibogaine as an addiction interruptor which also opens the door to a psycho-spiritual realm which allows the taker to examine & heal with the right intention the underlying reasons why they are unable to simply taper off their dependence as you suggest and become drug free if that is what they wish.

Saying that as things stand the current language of the ibo-camp appears to be the elimination of drugs as opposed to the liberalisation of drug policies which you advocate.

Question:

Why is this aspect of treating the underlying disease (if one exists) via eboga spirituality something to be undermined or played down? Are you willing to meet halfway and agree that ibogaine has perhaps revolutionary properties to deal with underlying disease, if on the other hand the ibo camp can change its language to describe ibogaine as an addiction interruptor and not a cure for addiction?

With love,

Lee

PS I sent this email to Peter seperately.

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: The Shadow – Annie
Date: March 23, 2005 at 8:22:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Annie,

I think the acceptance and integration of the Shadow is part of the final step in healing. It is held in place by all kind of ego constraints such as guilt, fear of hurting someone and so on. It takes a long time to begin to stop projecting ones childhood relationships onto ones present day to day relationships and thus undermining your true self.

My own experience of the Shadow is this: the Shadow is me but I put a psychological barrier between the part of my consciousness that i find acceptable and the part which I dont, i.e., the Shadow. Via eboga (ibogaine) I have had the distinct sense that I am looking at myself when I have encountered my Shadow. That was a revelation and indication that the barrier between myself (+) and myself(-) is breaking down to lead to myself(o) where + and – equal o :-).

Part of that process is about beginning to trust yourself and what you feel expresses the true you. As healing progresses and you look deeper at what is repressed such as hidden recollections of childhood depression, rejection and unmet need, the causes for feeling guilty about your present justified actions which express your true feelings are slowly lifted. This is a direct result of befriending the Shadow and releasing it.

(The Shadow rebels and screws with your present day life because it is imprisoned by the ego constraints put in place by an unwillingness to examined the past fueled in part by misplaced guilt, fear of shame of oneself, fear of destruction, wanting to believe in a lie as to who you are,  …… The Shadow is a part of you you ignore and is daily suffering.)

In your aware half (so to speak) you can be full of love and beauty but feel very constrained (depressed) as you describe. Unfortunately, the Shadow cannot be ignored and those who do risk committing acts of uncontroled anger in the future – sorry if that sounds scary. The Shadow will continue to push down on your life energy to be noticed because it is in fact you!
Each person is different and one cannot say how much work it will take for one person as opposed to another. However with the right intention and an involvement in eboga spirituality it is possible to slowly unravel the junk which seperates you from the Shadow and in time to face the Shadow and release your true self, ie, express your true self and not keep adding to the pressure on the Shadow leading to a massive blowout one day.

That said, the expression of ones true self that comes from befriending the Shadow requires taking risks. These risks however are supported by intuition and a deep sense that one is acting in a natural and healthy way. Of course one can make mistakes but the path to healing is about taking chances.

Please feel free to question further.

with Love,

Lee

P.S. My own personal work is laced with the Shadow at this present time.
Ajtcservice@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/22/2005 2:50:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
This email or any other email on the subject won’t make a dam bit of difference to the process of getting from ones present state to a better state unless of course it is part of a process of releasing the shadow within oneself that has been suppressed.

And, for me, getting to a state of acceptance and love is the name of the game.
Hi, My name is Annie and I’m fairly new here!  Doing a lot of observing, but I need to ask Lee, Ekki, or anyone about the highlighted text above.  HOW DOES ONE GET TO THE PROCESS OF RELEASING THE SHADOW WITHIN ONESELF THAT HAS BEEN SUPPRESSED?  I truly feel like 3 years ago, I had gotten to a state of acceptance and love.  But, I remain in a frozen state, like I cant move on.  This amazes me that so much incredible information came to me and I cant apply it to me or my behavior!

I met a wonderful person here last week, who gave me some hope when I was feeling really discouraged.  He said that Ibogaine was the missing link in releasing the “shadow”.  I hope to be receiving treatment soon and of course I needed it yesterday.  I’ve done a fair amount of drugs in my life, but was always to scared to try hallucinogenic.  (Fear of mentally loosing my mind)  Funny thing is that I have lost my mind over the years and now, I have never felt more excited and certain that this is what I need.

Does LSD or Mushrooms have similar or the same healing benefits as Ibogaine?  I have spent a lot of time researching Ibogaine treatment centers, similar drugs to Ibogaine, and of course places to purchase Ibogaine (Ha Ha – Can’t blame anyone for not being willing to ship to the US though).  Finances are the only thing standing in my way, or I would have already boarded the boat and sailed out to sea!  Eric T. came highly recommended to me from many subscribers and thank you, he’s been very helpful and very accommodating.  Things are looking up!

I have learned a lot the past two weeks while reading all the e-mails.  I just want to say thanks to all for the good, useful information and to some for the entertaining debates.  I hope not to offend anyone with that statement, because I too will be drawn into one of those debates, I’m sure.

Annie

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: bbburtnick@webtv.net (bb)
Subject: [Ibogaine] Meth detox?
Date: March 23, 2005 at 7:13:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m new to receiving ibogaine list mail and have signed on in hopes of
discovering it’s efficacy in detoxing from methadone. Then of course is
the matter of GETTING the stuff, not to mention proper application. But
first of all is the question of whether there is any genuine value for
meth users. Heroin looks like a picnic to shake comparatively, if you
don’t mind me saying so. (I’ve been there- trust me). Seems
“rapid-detox” offers little hope of helping, unless perhaps if the
problem is too much cash cluttering up ones life. So does ibogaine
differ? Or does one end up in lengthy withdrawal anyway?
Respectfully-bb

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 23, 2005 at 6:46:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: Peter Cohen <cohen.cedro@uva.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki,

I agree with you and acknowledge there was a certain amount of insult to my argument. If it was out of measure to the argument I was responding too I apologise. I am not by nature an ignorant man.

Yet, I have to say that if someone seeks to use denigrating language to support their argument, especially when it cuts into other peoples spirituality time and time again, I think a certain amount of sharp response is in order – between friends. I don’t think PC is unable to take that. (He can defend this himself if he wishes.) It might make him reconsider the manner in which he constructs his arguments and if he is atheist in his views he might realise better than to use condescending language to win his point towards those who are not and rather create a broad church of support.

The question to me is what is the threat to Peter that this spirituality seems to pose which causes him to denigrate it?

With abundant love to you and to Peter!

Lee

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:

Am 22.03.2005 um 20:22 schrieb Lee Albert:

>
> And, for me, getting to a state of acceptance and love is the name of
> the game.
>

yo! acceptance and love! even to blasphemous Peter Cohen 😉
acceptance and love is the best advertisment for ibogaine! and for
spirituality, too.
much better than insults.

cheers ekki

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Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: Mike Macfarlane <bigmountainoutfitting@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] articles in Herointimes
Date: March 23, 2005 at 1:03:02 AM EST
To: digital@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick,
I enjoyed your articles in June ’03 and Dec ’04 Heroin
Times. I have 3 yrs clean & love the freedom from the
physical habit… still have some of the underlying
“causes & conditions”but won’t  trade em for the hell
of a needle , i have a good life now. Never heard of
Iboigaine….  whatever works.  Awesome reading, it
inspired me and made me glad to be clean, alive, and
respectful of the different ways to detox.During a ten
year habit i detoxed many different ways, the last was
a simple raiding of the best of mother in laws
prescription drugs.. not much good but better than
cold turkey…. the hard part was the next six
months… i used  12 step groups, …., i have
experienced good friendship and sponsorship in 12 step
and feel lucky and that is a bonus…… this is a lot
more than i wanted to write.. your articles stirred
something in me that i cannot quite seem to express
tonight, somehow they brought me back to that time
when i was without hope and strung out and walked me
though the detox into early recovery so well that i
relived it all over… I feel you, i really like your
style.. you have reminded me how grateful I am to be
clean today. thank you
Mike

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 8:34:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana wrote:

I can only speak from my experience. Broadly, virtually all of the
people in Cohen’s camp are drug REFORMERS.  Ibogaine is revolutionary.

I would think the council table is large enough, or we could add in
those expanders, for both reformers and revolutionaries.  Doesn’t it
takes two wings for a bird to fly?

Perhaps though we are riding a dragonfly that has four… love, rachel

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 5:32:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Krista Vaughan [mailto:krista.vaughan@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 March 2005 21:37
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.

To add my 2 cents to this argument I’m finding my own opinions
somewhere between Lee’s overt spirituality and ekki’s science and
reason. I don’t know if I agree that ibogaine is without equal or par
to any other psychedelic, but my own opinion with regards to all of
what Peter Cohen has written is appreciating his point of view. He
does simplify rather then obscure as ekki said, if you compare what he
writes to social theorists, it is nowhere near the level of being way
over anyone’s head, if you take the time to read his words instead of
having a strong emotional reaction to them. What I’ve come away with
is great respect for Peter Cohen who is taking so much of his time to
reply and talk with the “ibo-clan” as he calls it.

In a way it is a mirror of the never ending Nick Sandberg and Preston
Peet debate, where both of them continue communicating at length and
claim to not care and already have made their minds up. If this were
the case I don’t think either one would spend so much of their time
corresponding with the other. By the same token if Dr. Cohen was
somewhere in his ivory tower setting down mandates from above, I find
it unlikely he would spend so much of his time reading and writing
replies to this list and people off it. It has to have taken him many
hours of time and thought to read and respond, which are not the
actions of a person who doesn’t care.

I think everything I’ve said could be resaid as thanks for sharing
your thoughts, to all those who contribute here, I enjoy reading them
and thinking about things. Thanks for the Burroughs Dana, always a
good reminder.

KV

Personally, I figure that this concept of “caring” clouds the issues a bit.
It’s a bit of a veil. There is an attraction to the debate, something draws
the attention. You can call it “caring,” I have done in the past, but
underneath this there’s usually something else going on. When people talk
about wanting to face or encounter their shadow side, they can start with
what they consider they “care” about. Check out where the pay-off is, check
out the feelings suppressed by the outward visage of caring, check out the
social acceptance seemingly gained – at the likely expense of knowing who
they really are. I find it a tough business to look at this, not for the
faint-hearted.

For Dr Cohen there are plenty of pay-offs beneath the humanistic facade, it
seems. Elsewise, why does he pull out of a debate when the arguments against
his perspective start to accumulate? Are the cracks in the idealistic facade
becoming too evident, and the feelings held back starting to break through?
A shame to think this is so, that all this idealism is simply arising
through fear. Maybe I get to find out one day.

Nick

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From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 4:57:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

doesn’t this sound like a burrouhgs rant?
i think it was called “the algebra of need”.
marcus

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:00:09 -0500, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

Junk is the mold of monopoly and possession. The addict stands by
while his junk legs carry him straight in on the junk beam to relapse.

Junk is quantitative and accurately measurable. The more junk you use
the less you have and more you have the more you use. All the
hallucingen drugs are considered sacred by those who use them–there
are Peyote Cults and Bannisteria Cults, Hashish Cults and Mushroom
Cults–“the Sacred Mushrooms of Mexico enable a man to see God”–but no

one ever suggested that junk is sacred. There are no opium cults. Opium

is profane and quantitative like money. I have heard that there was
once a beneficent non-habit-forming junk in India. It was called soma
and is pictured as a beautiful blue tide. If soma ever existed the
Pusher was there to bottle it and monopolize it and sell it and it
turned into plain old time JUNK.

Junk is the ideal product…the ultimate merchandize. No sales talk
necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy… The

junk merchant does not sell his product to the consumer, he sells the
consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his
merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client. He pays his staff
in junk.

Junk yields a basic formula of “evil” virus: The Algebra of Need. The

face of “evil” is always the face of total need. A dope fiend is a man

in total need of dope. Beyond a certain frequency need knows absolutely

no limit or control. In the words of total need: “Wouldn’t you?” Yes
you would. You would lie, cheat, inform on your friends, steal, do
anything to satisfy total need. Because you would be in a state of
total sickness, total possession, and not in a position to act in any
other way. Dope fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they
do. A rabid dog cannot choose but bite. Assuming a self-righteous
position is nothing to the the purpose unless your purpose be to keep
the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big industry. I recall
talking to an American who worked for the Aftosa Commission in Mexico.

Six hundred a month plus expense account:

“How long will the epidemic last?” I enquired.

“As long as we can keep it going… And yes…maybe the aftosa will
break out in South America,” he said dreamily.

If you wish to alter or annihilate a pyramid of numbers in a serial
relation, you alter or remove the bottom number. If we wish to
annihilate the junk pyramid, we must start with the bottom of the
pyramid: the Addict in the Street. And stop tilting quixotically for
the “higher ups,” so called, all of whom are immediately replaceable.
The addict in the street who must have junk to live is the one
irreplaceable factor in the junk equation. When there are no more
addicts to buy junk there will be no more junk traffic. As long as junk

need exists, someone will service it.

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 4:36:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To add my 2 cents to this argument I’m finding my own opinions
somewhere between Lee’s overt spirituality and ekki’s science and
reason. I don’t know if I agree that ibogaine is without equal or par
to any other psychedelic, but my own opinion with regards to all of
what Peter Cohen has written is appreciating his point of view. He
does simplify rather then obscure as ekki said, if you compare what he
writes to social theorists, it is nowhere near the level of being way
over anyone’s head, if you take the time to read his words instead of
having a strong emotional reaction to them. What I’ve come away with
is great respect for Peter Cohen who is taking so much of his time to
reply and talk with the “ibo-clan” as he calls it.

In a way it is a mirror of the never ending Nick Sandberg and Preston
Peet debate, where both of them continue communicating at length and
claim to not care and already have made their minds up. If this were
the case I don’t think either one would spend so much of their time
corresponding with the other. By the same token if Dr. Cohen was
somewhere in his ivory tower setting down mandates from above, I find
it unlikely he would spend so much of his time reading and writing
replies to this list and people off it. It has to have taken him many
hours of time and thought to read and respond, which are not the
actions of a person who doesn’t care.

I think everything I’ve said could be resaid as thanks for sharing
your thoughts, to all those who contribute here, I enjoy reading them
and thinking about things. Thanks for the Burroughs Dana, always a
good reminder.

KV

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From: Ajtcservice@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 22, 2005 at 3:52:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/22/2005 2:50:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:
This email or any other email on the subject won’t make a dam bit of difference to the process of getting from ones present state to a better state unless of course it is part of a process of releasing the shadow within oneself that has been suppressed.

And, for me, getting to a state of acceptance and love is the name of the game.
Hi, My name is Annie and I’m fairly new here!  Doing a lot of observing, but I need to ask Lee, Ekki, or anyone about the highlighted text above.  HOW DOES ONE GET TO THE PROCESS OF RELEASING THE SHADOW WITHIN ONESELF THAT HAS BEEN SUPPRESSED?  I truly feel like 3 years ago, I had gotten to a state of acceptance and love.  But, I remain in a frozen state, like I cant move on.  This amazes me that so much incredible information came to me and I cant apply it to me or my behavior!

I met a wonderful person here last week, who gave me some hope when I was feeling really discouraged.  He said that Ibogaine was the missing link in releasing the “shadow”.  I hope to be receiving treatment soon and of course I needed it yesterday.  I’ve done a fair amount of drugs in my life, but was always to scared to try hallucinogenic.  (Fear of mentally loosing my mind)  Funny thing is that I have lost my mind over the years and now, I have never felt more excited and certain that this is what I need.

Does LSD or Mushrooms have similar or the same healing benefits as Ibogaine?  I have spent a lot of time researching Ibogaine treatment centers, similar drugs to Ibogaine, and of course places to purchase Ibogaine (Ha Ha – Can’t blame anyone for not being willing to ship to the US though).  Finances are the only thing standing in my way, or I would have already boarded the boat and sailed out to sea!  Eric T. came highly recommended to me from many subscribers and thank you, he’s been very helpful and very accommodating.  Things are looking up!

I have learned a lot the past two weeks while reading all the e-mails.  I just want to say thanks to all for the good, useful information and to some for the entertaining debates.  I hope not to offend anyone with that statement, because I too will be drawn into one of those debates, I’m sure.

Annie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] digital photos nyc ibogaine forum
Date: March 22, 2005 at 3:21:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’d be interested to receive any interesting digital photographs from the nyc
ibogaine forum to be placed on http://www.ibogaine.org/nyc2005.html and
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/nyc2005.html

Please send the images to ibogaine@earthlink.net

Howard

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 22, 2005 at 3:16:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 22.03.2005 um 20:22 schrieb Lee Albert:

And, for me, getting to a state of acceptance and love is the name of the game.
yo! acceptance and love! even to blasphemous Peter Cohen 😉
acceptance and love is the best advertisment for ibogaine! and for spirituality, too.
much better than insults.

cheers ekki

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From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 22, 2005 at 2:22:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki,

I have no problem whatsoever that you have arguments against my argumentation. In fact I do myself.

What I am trying to do is highlight my distaste (without getting too intellectual) for the way this whole discussion on Peters part (from the little I understand) seeks to belittle the unique spiritual qualities that eboga offers and I do not accept it should be put on a par with all other mind altering substances.

In order to reach agreement with the purely social scientific discussion that Peter appears to put forward (I stress “appears” as frankly most of it is over my head) it seems to me that one has to treat ibogaine as some kind of generic drug and frankly that is the same as asking amazonian shamans or african pygmies or whatever group to diss their own spirituality.
That I find offensive. However more importantly the whole discussion in the end means zip to me as it does not affect in any way the reality of eboga or my own healing process via its spirituality. Hence I have not spent hours trying to get my head around it other than to pick up on what comes across as offensive comments towards its sacredness.

This email or any other email on the subject won’t make a dam bit of difference to the process of getting from ones present state to a better state unless of course it is part of a process of releasing the shadow within oneself that has been suppressed.

And, for me, getting to a state of acceptance and love is the name of the game.

with love

Lee

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
dear Lee
i´m with you in that i consider ibogaine as something very special and
devine, a thing peter maybe doesn´t get. i admire what you do in terms
of eboga healing. still i have some arguments against your
argumentation. that doesn´t mean i agree with everything Peter says.

Am 22.03.2005 um 12:45 schrieb Lee Albert:

> Peter,
>
>
>
> You state:
> ‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.
>
>
> As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this
> discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It
> is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you
> attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as
> an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of
> arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.
an “atheist approach” in science, no matter if math or sociology, is
suitable. social inequity was oftentimes justified as god given.(even
today george bush uses a certain religious rhethoric to underpin his
foreign policy.) i agree it is sad that Peter labels voodoo priests and
shamans as primitive to back up his arguments. maybe not his
argumentation, but his position deserves support: contemporary
societies hysterical war against some drugs and its users is irrational
and wrong.
>
> It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus
> ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are)
> anti-intellectual also.
>
>
> Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an
> issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as
> opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I
> read that as a soul issue – psycho/spirituality. You read it as a
> psychological one.
if you call it psychological or spiritual, is this so different? but in
peters point of view, as i understand it, there are enviromental/social
factors involved in dependency, too.

>
>
> IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a
> psychological issue
again: he doesn´t say that. you learn and perform behaviour in society,
don´t you?

> (complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct
> an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads
compared to most academic social theory, he keeps it very simple.

> and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically
> impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone.
thats exactly why he can´t use spirituality as an argument. it´s his
job to present provable concepts.

> It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided
> to distance yourself from.
we don´t know that for sure. even if he is a materialist atheist, so
what?
>
> I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you
> into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor
> will you even consider these possibilities.
that´s an aggressive assumption.
>
>
> That’s all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of
> undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no
> idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary
> your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying
> the interpretation others use for what works for them?
I don´t see how Peters position is destructive and unnecessary. Peter
as well as most ibonauts wants a change in drug poilcy. We are allies
here. Appart from that i don´t see how he detains anyone from taking
ibogaine.
>
>
> Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the
> indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every
> indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with
> a drugs for all paradise?
this is just another offense

>
>
> I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude
> in your viewpoints
Peter fights for more tolerance concerning drug use and we should be
tolerant against his viewpoints, too.

> and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.
what prejudice exactly?

>
>
> With love,
>
>
> Lee
>

….peace
ekki

> HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
> Dear Peter and Nick,
>
> Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the
> communications
> between yourself and Peter.
>
> On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
> ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug
> regulatory
> development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of
> Health, that we
> wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had
> to use
> specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in
> treating a medical
> condition. After all that is what medications are for.
>
> That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to
> the drug
> user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
> sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the
> regulatory agencies
> who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it
> could be
> delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social
> medical
> insurance?
>
> Thanks again to both of you.
>
> Howard
>
> In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:
>
> >RE: dissing a Substance!!
> > —–Original Message—–
> > From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> > Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> > To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> > Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
> >
> >
> > Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
> >complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in
> someone’s
> >life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different
> than
> >wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left
> when
> >crossing the street
> >
> >
> > It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
> >the
> >ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> > Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
> >for
> >whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
> >his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people
> who
> >want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from
> ibo.
> > Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long
> time,
> >is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the
> road,
> >as I
> >said often before.
> >
> >
> > I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that
> our
> >voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
> >
> >
> > Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the
> whole
> >ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we
> have
> >found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
> >is
> >sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it
> works.Maybe
> >it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as
> well,
> >but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
> >and
> >if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther
> we
> >will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
> >think
> >you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included,
> because
> >we
> >think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
> >
> >
> > But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be
> avoided
> >at
> >all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being
> they
> >are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or
> existential
> >ones, but that is a whole other story.
> > pc
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist
> and
> >so
> >I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict”
> or
> >”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of
> bad
> >feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really
> see
> >where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization
> that
> >one
> >is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they
> physically
> >cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in
> the
> >individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If
> someone
> >is
> >coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
> >therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> > As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
> >helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds
> they
> >cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy,
> all
> >this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
> >stop.
> >There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually
> a
> >bit
> >of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just
> tell
> >the
> >person to stop if they no longer want to use.
> >
> > Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote
> ibogaine.
> >Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how
> it
> >works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
> >psychological than neurochemical.
> > Thank you for an interesting discussion
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
> >have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the
> physical
> >aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the
> degree
> >that
> >they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
> >propose ibogaine should be promoted?
> >
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >–
> >————————————————-
> > Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> > University of Amsterdam
> >
> > Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> > Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> > 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
> >
> > mail address: postbox 94208
> > 1090 GE Amsterdam
> >
> > email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> > tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> > fax +31-20-525 4317
> >
> > World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> > original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> > languages)
> >
>
>
> /]=——————————————————————–
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>
>
>
>
> Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over
> a six year period.
> www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
> Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media /
> librarians etc:
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dreams and subcounciousness
Date: March 22, 2005 at 2:14:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi matt

i couldn´t say how much % i usually remember since i don´t remember how much i don´t remember 😉

i tried writing down dreams too, in the morning, and its fascinating, especially to read them a while later. strange and familiar at the same time. falling asleep and waking up has much more magic when not using.

i read a book “what your dreams mean” last year, were a lot of symbols were explained, and – oh wonder! – exactly the symbols i read about appeared in my dreams. that made me suspicious if i projected what i read in my dreams or if my dreams were making fun of the symbolism in this book, especially since the symbols didn´t seem to express anything attributed to them. maybe everyone´s symbolism is a little different each. generally unsure if its sub or maybe un/over/meta/para/universal/whatever consciousness or a mixture of them and other things.

interpreting dreams as symbolic is to see something as something else. this makes sense. if that concept is taken to extremes, however, then anything is only a signifier for anything which in itself is a signifier without anything signified anymore at the end of the day. seeing things ONLY as symbols is like watering them down.
dreams can influence desicions and tell something without me consciously analyzing them.

i found i prefer not to know entirely what my dreams mean -same with ibogainejourney and life itself.

peace
ekki

Am 21.03.2005 um 19:00 schrieb matthew zielinski:

Dreams are fascinating in that our subcouncious tries to break free and show us/warn us of everything we need to know about….all the things we forget or repress its bound to show up in our dreams.  I have always been fascinated about dreaming/lucid dreaming et….NOw after ibogaine–10 weeks—i noticed that i udnerstnad the symbolism of my dreams with much more depth and i remember 90% of my dreams when i wake–quickly to write it dwon and anylze it later—-but my question is—-do you guys think ibogaine could expand our subcouncious to the level where we can decipher the symbolism behind our dreams with more ease…or is it maybe that since we are not using anything to numb our brain it is easier to remember and expand on everything>?

Warmest Regards

Matt

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from  MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*  /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 1:26:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 22.03.2005 um 18:56 schrieb Dana Beal:

How do Ibogaine’s mechanisms threaten their position?

Junk is the mold of monopoly and possession. The addict stands by while his junk legs carry him straight in on the junk beam to relapse. Junk is quantitative and accurately measurable. The more junk you use the less you have and more you have the more you use. All the hallucingen drugs are considered sacred by those who use them–there are Peyote Cults and Bannisteria Cults, Hashish Cults and Mushroom Cults–“the Sacred Mushrooms of Mexico enable a man to see God”–but no one ever suggested that junk is sacred. There are no opium cults. Opium is profane and quantitative like money. I have heard that there was once a beneficent non-habit-forming junk in India. It was called soma and is pictured as a beautiful blue tide. If soma ever existed the Pusher was there to bottle it and monopolize it and sell it and it turned into plain old time JUNK.

Junk is the ideal product…the ultimate merchandize. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy… The junk merchant does not sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client. He pays his staff in junk.

Junk yields a basic formula of “evil” virus: The Algebra of Need. The face of “evil” is always the face of total need. A dope fiend is a man in total need of dope. Beyond a certain frequency need knows absolutely no limit or control. In the words of total need: “Wouldn’t you?” Yes you would. You would lie, cheat, inform on your friends, steal, do anything to satisfy total need. Because you would be in a state of total sickness, total possession, and not in a position to act in any other way. Dope fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they do. A rabid dog cannot choose but bite. Assuming a self-righteous position is nothing to the the purpose unless your purpose be to keep the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big industry. I recall talking to an American who worked for the Aftosa Commission in Mexico. Six hundred a month plus expense account:

“How long will the epidemic last?” I enquired.

“As long as we can keep it going… And yes…maybe the aftosa will break out in South America,” he said dreamily.

If you wish to alter or annihilate a pyramid of numbers in a serial relation, you alter or remove the bottom number. If we wish to annihilate the junk pyramid, we must start with the bottom of the pyramid: the Addict in the Street. And stop tilting quixotically for the “higher ups,” so called, all of whom are immediately replaceable. The addict in the street who must have junk to live is the one irreplaceable factor in the junk equation. When there are no more addicts to buy junk there will be no more junk traffic. As long as junk need exists, someone will service it.

its always nice to read some burroughs. thank you dana 😉
what this excerpt shows is how ibogaine could perhaps reduce the profit-margins of heroin-dealers, but it doesn´t support prohibitionists, either. not only the junky on the street, but also prohibition itself, with its reversible police/state vs. junky/underground logic, keeps the junk-show alive, as burroughs shows with the aftosa analogy. thus i read this text as a support for the legalization movement instead of a thread for them.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Italians move againt ayahuasca church
Date: March 22, 2005 at 1:25:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Coincidentally, a guy by the name of Darpan is scheduled to be back in court
today in Australia on trafficking charges relating to the possession of
800mls of ayahuasca liquid. They’re doing him for harmaline and DMT and,
under Aussie law, apparently, anything over 500mg of these substances is
deemed a traffickable amount, subject to a sentence of up to 20 years.
Seems like someone has got it in for ayahuasca.

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 22 March 2005 18:03
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Italians move againt ayahuasca church

—-Forwarded Message Follows—-
Here’s a near complete translation of an AFP news in Spanish
<http://www.univision.com/contentroot/wirefeeds/world/2192141.html
, which
content is very similar to Italian versions (the police operation was, no
kidding, labeled “operation Mystic” [/operazione Mistica/]):

*Breaking-up in Italy of a religious cult suspected of drug traffic*
18 March 2005
Roma, AFP

A religious cult of Brazilian origin accused of narcotic substances
traffic at an international scale was broken up in the center of
Italy, has announced this Friday the antimafia brigade of the city
of Perugia.

After an investigation that lasted eight months, an arrest order was
issued against 24 members of the pseudo-religious organization
“Santo Daime” or “Ayahuasca” (rope of the spirits in Quechua),
appeared in Brazil at the beginning of the 20th century and which
Italian headquarters are located in Assisi.

The questioned persons are of Italian, French, Brazilian, and
Portuguese nationality

The investigation also permitted to seize 40 liters of a
hallucinogenic psychotropic substance called “dimethyltryptamine”
(DMT) considered a hard drug in Italy according to the antimafia
brigade.

According to the antimafia brigade, the principal figure of this
spiritual movement is a Brazilian who produces and transports the
DMT to Europe.

This person received adhesion requests from the entire world through
electronic mail and a sum between 15 and 30 euros.

The participation to one “Santo Daime” ritual cost 45 euros to the
adepts of the movement or 70 euros for two sessions.

The meetings were held every two weeks, approximatively.

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 1:12:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 22.03.2005 um 18:56 schrieb Dana Beal:

On Mar 22, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Eye of the Bhogi wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:00:09 -0500, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

“What’s worse is that he speaks for a broad swath of the legalization movement,
and generally speaking, they won’t deign even to debate it with us.”

I’m still a little confused about the intricacies of this opposition –
this particular swath of legalization to which you refer, are they
advocates of making heroin legal on a principle of self-determination
about what one chooses to do with one’s body?

Yup. That is the given rationale.

And they distance
themselves from or suppress debate about Ibogaine’s unique chemistry
because the logic of their argument is somehow undermined by the
existence of and advocacy for alternative sacred modalities?

It is apparently self-evident from their point of view.

its apparently not self-evident from their point of view: if you support self-determination about what one chooses to do with one´s body than you have to support legalization of ibogaine, too. if one of peters friends is treated at sara´s, than the cohen-camp cannot be radically anti-ibo.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 1:10:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana,

You sound somewhat like Harry Anslinger.

Howard

In a message dated 3/22/05 12:56:55 PM, dana@phantom.com writes:

On Mar 22, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Eye of the Bhogi wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:00:09 -0500, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

“What’s worse is that he speaks for a broad swath of the legalization

movement,
and generally speaking, they won’t deign even to debate it with us.”

I’m still a little confused about the intricacies of this opposition

this particular swath of legalization to which you refer, are they
advocates of making heroin legal on a principle of self-determination
about what one chooses to do with one’s body?

Yup. That is the given rationale.

And they distance
themselves from or suppress debate about Ibogaine’s unique chemistry
because the logic of their argument is somehow undermined by the
existence of and advocacy for alternative sacred modalities?

It is apparently self-evident from their point of view.

How do Ibogaine’s mechanisms threaten their position?

Junk is the mold of monopoly and possession. The addict stands by
while his junk legs carry him straight in on the junk beam to relapse.

Junk is quantitative and accurately measurable. The more junk you use
the less you have and more you have the more you use. All the
hallucingen drugs are considered sacred by those who use them–there
are Peyote Cults and Bannisteria Cults, Hashish Cults and Mushroom
Cults–“the Sacred Mushrooms of Mexico enable a man to see God”–but no

one ever suggested that junk is sacred. There are no opium cults. Opium

is profane and quantitative like money. I have heard that there was
once a beneficent non-habit-forming junk in India. It was called soma
and is pictured as a beautiful blue tide. If soma ever existed the
Pusher was there to bottle it and monopolize it and sell it and it
turned into plain old time JUNK.

Junk is the ideal product…the ultimate merchandize. No sales talk
necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy… The

junk merchant does not sell his product to the consumer, he sells the
consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his
merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client. He pays his staff
in junk.

Junk yields a basic formula of “evil” virus: The Algebra of Need. The

face of “evil” is always the face of total need. A dope fiend is a man

in total need of dope. Beyond a certain frequency need knows absolutely

no limit or control. In the words of total need: “Wouldn’t you?” Yes
you would. You would lie, cheat, inform on your friends, steal, do
anything to satisfy total need. Because you would be in a state of
total sickness, total possession, and not in a position to act in any
other way. Dope fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they
do. A rabid dog cannot choose but bite. Assuming a self-righteous
position is nothing to the the purpose unless your purpose be to keep
the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big industry. I recall
talking to an American who worked for the Aftosa Commission in Mexico.

Six hundred a month plus expense account:

“How long will the epidemic last?” I enquired.

“As long as we can keep it going… And yes…maybe the aftosa will
break out in South America,” he said dreamily.

If you wish to alter or annihilate a pyramid of numbers in a serial
relation, you alter or remove the bottom number. If we wish to
annihilate the junk pyramid, we must start with the bottom of the
pyramid: the Addict in the Street. And stop tilting quixotically for
the “higher ups,” so called, all of whom are immediately replaceable.
The addict in the street who must have junk to live is the one
irreplaceable factor in the junk equation. When there are no more
addicts to buy junk there will be no more junk traffic. As long as junk

need exists, someone will service it.

Can you explain
the political groupings in plainer terms that don’t disparagingly
invoke names and personalities (with their related histories of
personal animus and leftist wrangling)?

I can only speak from my experience. Broadly, virtually all of the
people in Cohen’s camp are drug REFORMERS.

Ibogaine is revolutionary.

I also wonder about grouping all who advocate for knowledge of the
Sacred Tree into one “ibo-camp,” especially seeing as there were some
pretty divergent views expressed at the end of the Forum.

Being treated as a cult is always fairly annoying. That’s why my first

post was entitled, “Science, not a Cult”. So either P.C. won’t submit
his position to peer review, or he regards us as OTHER than his peers.

With watery, aqueous, liquid love (world water day!), Rachel

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 22, 2005 at 1:06:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dear Lee
i´m with you in that i consider ibogaine as something very special and devine, a thing peter maybe doesn´t get. i admire what you do in terms of eboga healing. still i have some arguments against your argumentation. that doesn´t mean i agree with everything Peter says.

Am 22.03.2005 um 12:45 schrieb Lee Albert:

Peter,

 

You state:
‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.

As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.
an “atheist approach” in science, no matter if math or sociology, is suitable. social inequity was oftentimes justified as god given.(even today george bush uses a certain religious rhethoric to underpin his foreign policy.) i agree it is sad that Peter labels voodoo priests and shamans as primitive to back up his arguments. maybe not his argumentation, but his position deserves support: contemporary societies hysterical war against some drugs and its users is irrational and wrong.

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.
Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I read that as a soul issue – psycho/spirituality. You read it as a psychological one.
if you call it psychological or spiritual, is this so different? but in peters point of view, as i understand it, there are enviromental/social factors involved in dependency, too.

 

IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a psychological issue
again: he doesn´t say that. you learn and perform behaviour in society, don´t you?

(complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads
compared to most academic social theory, he keeps it very simple.

and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone.
thats exactly why he can´t use spirituality as an argument. it´s his job to present provable concepts.

It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided to distance yourself from.
we don´t know that for sure. even if he is a materialist atheist, so what?

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.
that´s an aggressive assumption.

That’s all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying the interpretation others use for what works for them?
I don´t see how Peters position is destructive and unnecessary. Peter as well as most ibonauts wants a change in drug poilcy. We are allies here. Appart from that i don´t see how he detains anyone from taking ibogaine.

Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with a drugs for all paradise?
this is just another offense

 

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints
Peter fights for more tolerance concerning drug use and we should be tolerant against his viewpoints, too.

and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.
what prejudice exactly?

 

With love,

Lee

….peace
ekki

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition. After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>RE: dissing a Substance!!
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
>
>
> Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
>complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
>life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
>wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
>crossing the street
>
>
> It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
>the
>ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
>for
>whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
>his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
>want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
> Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
>is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
>as I
>said often before.
>
>
> I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
>voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
>
>
> Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
>ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
>found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
>is
>sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
>it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
>but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
>and
>if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
>will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
>think
>you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
>we
>think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
>
>
> But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
>at
>all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
>are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
>ones, but that is a whole other story.
> pc
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
>so
>I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
>”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
>feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
>where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
>one
>is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
>cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
>individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
>is
>coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
>therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
>helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
>cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
>this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
>stop.
>There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
>bit
>of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
>the
>person to stop if they no longer want to use.
>
> Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
>Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
>works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
>psychological than neurochemical.
> Thank you for an interesting discussion
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
>have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
>aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
>that
>they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
>propose ibogaine should be promoted?
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>–
>————————————————-
> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> University of Amsterdam
>
> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>
> mail address: postbox 94208
> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>
> email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> fax +31-20-525 4317
>
> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> languages)
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Italians move againt ayahuasca church
Date: March 22, 2005 at 1:03:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—-Forwarded Message Follows—-
Here’s a near complete translation of an AFP news in Spanish
<http://www.univision.com/contentroot/wirefeeds/world/2192141.html>, which
content is very similar to Italian versions (the police operation was, no
kidding, labeled “operation Mystic” [/operazione Mistica/]):

*Breaking-up in Italy of a religious cult suspected of drug traffic*
18 March 2005
Roma, AFP

A religious cult of Brazilian origin accused of narcotic substances
traffic at an international scale was broken up in the center of
Italy, has announced this Friday the antimafia brigade of the city
of Perugia.

After an investigation that lasted eight months, an arrest order was
issued against 24 members of the pseudo-religious organization
“Santo Daime” or “Ayahuasca” (rope of the spirits in Quechua),
appeared in Brazil at the beginning of the 20th century and which
Italian headquarters are located in Assisi.

The questioned persons are of Italian, French, Brazilian, and
Portuguese nationality

The investigation also permitted to seize 40 liters of a
hallucinogenic psychotropic substance called “dimethyltryptamine”
(DMT) considered a hard drug in Italy according to the antimafia
brigade.

According to the antimafia brigade, the principal figure of this
spiritual movement is a Brazilian who produces and transports the
DMT to Europe.

This person received adhesion requests from the entire world through
electronic mail and a sum between 15 and 30 euros.

The participation to one “Santo Daime” ritual cost 45 euros to the
adepts of the movement or 70 euros for two sessions.

The meetings were held every two weeks, approximatively.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 12:56:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 22, 2005, at 12:14 PM, Eye of the Bhogi wrote:

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:00:09 -0500, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

“What’s worse is that he speaks for a broad swath of the legalization movement,
and generally speaking, they won’t deign even to debate it with us.”

I’m still a little confused about the intricacies of this opposition –
this particular swath of legalization to which you refer, are they
advocates of making heroin legal on a principle of self-determination
about what one chooses to do with one’s body?

Yup. That is the given rationale.

And they distance
themselves from or suppress debate about Ibogaine’s unique chemistry
because the logic of their argument is somehow undermined by the
existence of and advocacy for alternative sacred modalities?

It is apparently self-evident from their point of view.

How do Ibogaine’s mechanisms threaten their position?

Junk is the mold of monopoly and possession. The addict stands by while his junk legs carry him straight in on the junk beam to relapse. Junk is quantitative and accurately measurable. The more junk you use the less you have and more you have the more you use. All the hallucingen drugs are considered sacred by those who use them–there are Peyote Cults and Bannisteria Cults, Hashish Cults and Mushroom Cults–“the Sacred Mushrooms of Mexico enable a man to see God”–but no one ever suggested that junk is sacred. There are no opium cults. Opium is profane and quantitative like money. I have heard that there was once a beneficent non-habit-forming junk in India. It was called soma and is pictured as a beautiful blue tide. If soma ever existed the Pusher was there to bottle it and monopolize it and sell it and it turned into plain old time JUNK.

Junk is the ideal product…the ultimate merchandize. No sales talk necessary. The client will crawl through a sewer and beg to buy… The junk merchant does not sell his product to the consumer, he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and simplify his merchandise. He degrades and simplifies the client. He pays his staff in junk.

Junk yields a basic formula of “evil” virus: The Algebra of Need. The face of “evil” is always the face of total need. A dope fiend is a man in total need of dope. Beyond a certain frequency need knows absolutely no limit or control. In the words of total need: “Wouldn’t you?” Yes you would. You would lie, cheat, inform on your friends, steal, do anything to satisfy total need. Because you would be in a state of total sickness, total possession, and not in a position to act in any other way. Dope fiends are sick people who cannot act other than they do. A rabid dog cannot choose but bite. Assuming a self-righteous position is nothing to the the purpose unless your purpose be to keep the junk virus in operation. And junk is a big industry. I recall talking to an American who worked for the Aftosa Commission in Mexico. Six hundred a month plus expense account:

“How long will the epidemic last?” I enquired.

“As long as we can keep it going… And yes…maybe the aftosa will break out in South America,” he said dreamily.

If you wish to alter or annihilate a pyramid of numbers in a serial relation, you alter or remove the bottom number. If we wish to annihilate the junk pyramid, we must start with the bottom of the pyramid: the Addict in the Street. And stop tilting quixotically for the “higher ups,” so called, all of whom are immediately replaceable. The addict in the street who must have junk to live is the one irreplaceable factor in the junk equation. When there are no more addicts to buy junk there will be no more junk traffic. As long as junk need exists, someone will service it.

Can you explain
the political groupings in plainer terms that don’t disparagingly
invoke names and personalities (with their related histories of
personal animus and leftist wrangling)?

I can only speak from my experience. Broadly, virtually all of the people in Cohen’s camp are drug REFORMERS.

Ibogaine is revolutionary.

I also wonder about grouping all who advocate for knowledge of the
Sacred Tree into one “ibo-camp,” especially seeing as there were some
pretty divergent views expressed at the end of the Forum.

Being treated as a cult is always fairly annoying. That’s why my first post was entitled, “Science, not a Cult”. So either P.C. won’t submit his position to peer review, or he regards us as OTHER than his peers.

With watery, aqueous, liquid love (world water day!), Rachel

Our other big thing is water reclamation to reverse the worst effects of Global Warming, BTW.

Dana/cnw

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 12:52:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Eye of the Bhogi [mailto:freedomroot@gmail.com]
Sent: 22 March 2005 17:15
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:00:09 -0500, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

“What’s worse is that he speaks for a broad swath of the
legalization movement,
and generally speaking, they won’t deign even t[o] debate it with us.”

I’m still a little confused about the intricacies of this opposition –
this particular swath of legalization to which you refer, are they
advocates of making heroin legal on a principle of self-determination
about what one chooses to do with one’s body?  And they distance
themselves from or suppress debate about Ibogaine’s unique chemistry
because the logic of their argument is somehow undermined by the
existence of and advocacy for alternative sacred modalities?

How do Ibogaine’s mechanisms threaten their position?  Can you explain
the political groupings in plainer terms that don’t disparagingly
invoke names and personalities (with their related histories of
personal animus and leftist wrangling)?

I also wonder about grouping all who advocate for knowledge of the
Sacred Tree into one “ibo-camp,” especially seeing as there were some
pretty divergent views expressed at the end of the Forum.

With watery, aqueous, liquid love (world water day!), Rachel

Hi Rachel,

I don’t know how much of a “movement” the legalize heroin thing is. Perhaps
Dana could say more. But, as I see it, Peter has no problem with ibogaine
itself but is upset that ibogaine people use the “language of addiction” so
much. Terms like “addict”, “non-addict”, “dependent”, “treatment”,
“therapy”, etc upset him as his take is that these are the words of the Evil
Empire – the medical establishment. For sure, many people into ibogaine use
this language.

He doesn’t seem to like it that ibogaine offers to maintain this language
AND effectively treat addiction because this threatens his perspective.
That’s my take, anyway.

Personally, I like his position, but I do think he could be a little more
open to different ideas. I don’t know whether Peter represents a broad base
of activists or is more a one-off. If he does represent a broader base of
people or if there actually is a Legalize Heroin movement developing that
opposes ibogaine in this way then it would be great to have more
communication with them.

Nick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 12:14:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:00:09 -0500, Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:

“What’s worse is that he speaks for a broad swath of the legalization movement,
and generally speaking, they won’t deign even t[o] debate it with us.”

I’m still a little confused about the intricacies of this opposition –
this particular swath of legalization to which you refer, are they
advocates of making heroin legal on a principle of self-determination
about what one chooses to do with one’s body?  And they distance
themselves from or suppress debate about Ibogaine’s unique chemistry
because the logic of their argument is somehow undermined by the
existence of and advocacy for alternative sacred modalities?

How do Ibogaine’s mechanisms threaten their position?  Can you explain
the political groupings in plainer terms that don’t disparagingly
invoke names and personalities (with their related histories of
personal animus and leftist wrangling)?

I also wonder about grouping all who advocate for knowledge of the
Sacred Tree into one “ibo-camp,” especially seeing as there were some
pretty divergent views expressed at the end of the Forum.

With watery, aqueous, liquid love (world water day!), Rachel

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Politically Correct P.C.
Date: March 22, 2005 at 11:00:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

Thanks for bringing up such an excellent point. I got a message back from
Peter. He seemed a bit upset that I’d copied his mails to the list. I guess
I should have checked with him that it was alright first. Anyway, he doesn’t
seem to want to discuss any more and appears to just want to hold his
position that the ibo-camp’s language is wrong and that’s just how it is.
It’s disappointing that he chose to bring things to an end precisely at the
moment such interesting points were being raised and I wrote and told him
this. Maybe he’ll change his mind later.

Nick

As I said, his mind is made up, don’t confuse him with facts. What’s worse is that he speaks for a broad swath of the legalization movement, and generally speaking, they won’t deign even tp debate it with us. Ibogaine, the spiritual alternative to opiates, simply doesn’t exist, as far as they’re concerned, and should be ignored and suppressed “for our own good.”

Dana/cnw

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <my-eboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 22, 2005 at 6:45:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peter,

You state:
‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour.
As much as I do not understand the social structural arguments in this discussion I think I do understand one part of it and it is this: It is entirely atheist in its approach and the manner in which you attempt to denigrate the discussion regarding spiritual possession as an aside to the physical dependence is in my opinion the height of arrogance on your part based on clear cut ignorance.

It is also a way to undermine the gathering of knowledge and thus ironically is (for someone clearly as intellectual as you are) anti-intellectual also.

Peter you are absolutely right to say that dependency is ultimately an issue for the person themselves to resolve on an inner level as opposed to it being rooted solely in physical dependency issues. I read that as a soul issue – psycho/spirituality. You read it as a psychological one.

IMO you are wrong to assume that dependency is nothing more than a psychological issue (complex learned behaviour) simply because you are able to construct an intellectual argument which goes way above most of our heads and which only gets an airing for the simple fact that is practically impossible to prove matters of spirituality to anyone. It is a personal experience and one which you obviously have decided to distance yourself from.

I suspect you wont enter this discussion with me because it draws you into an area you clearly have major issues with: spirituality. Nor will you even consider these possibilities.

That’s all very well but before you take your crusade to the point of undermining those who are finding spiritual benefits which you have no idea of, take a moment to consider how destructive and unnecessary your position is and ask yourself why are you so hell bent on denying the interpretation others use for what works for them?

Perhaps when this crusade of yours is over we can target all the indigenous peoples on the planet and systematically wipe out every indigenous spiritual healing system in existence and replace them with a drugs for all paradise?

I respectfully suggest you adopt a little more tolerance and latitude in your viewpoints and drop your prejudice towards the spiritual pursuits of others.

With love,

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues. We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world. We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition. After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

>RE: dissing a Substance!!
> —–Original Message—–
> From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
> Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
> To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
> Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!
>
>
> Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
>complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
>life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
>wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
>crossing the street
>
>
> It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
>the
>ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
> Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
>for
>whom it was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
>his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
>want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
> Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
>is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
>as I
>said often before.
>
>
> I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
>voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.
>
>
> Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
>ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
>found that the rite the passage from one type of lifestyle to another
>is
>sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
>it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
>but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When it serves, it serves,
>and
>if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
>will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
>think
>you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
>we
>think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.
>
>
> But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
>at
>all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
>are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
>ones, but that is a whole other story.
> pc
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
>so
>I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
>”junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
>feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
>where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
>one
>is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
>cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
>individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
>is
>coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
>therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
> As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
>helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
>cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
>this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
>stop.
>There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
>bit
>of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
>the
>person to stop if they no longer want to use.
>
> Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
>Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
>works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
>psychological than neurochemical.
> Thank you for an interesting discussion
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
>have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
>aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
>that
>they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
>propose ibogaine should be promoted?
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>–
>————————————————-
> Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
> University of Amsterdam
>
> Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
> Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
> 1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands
>
> mail address: postbox 94208
> 1090 GE Amsterdam
>
> email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
> tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
> fax +31-20-525 4317
>
> World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
> original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
> languages)
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

Amazing Grace: A true story based on the use of eboga / ibogaine over a six year period.
www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html
Free copies of Amazing Grace available here for members of the media / librarians etc:
www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 22, 2005 at 6:28:34 AM EST
To: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 21 March 2005 20:30
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk; cohen.cedro@uva.nl; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!

Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the
communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for
drug regulatory
development issues.  We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of
Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world.  We
had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in
treating a medical
condition.  After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both
to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the
regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it
could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or
social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

Hi Howard,

Thanks for bringing up such an excellent point. I got a message back from
Peter. He seemed a bit upset that I’d copied his mails to the list. I guess
I should have checked with him that it was alright first. Anyway, he doesn’t
seem to want to discuss any more and appears to just want to hold his
position that the ibo-camp’s language is wrong and that’s just how it is.
It’s disappointing that he chose to bring things to an end precisely at the
moment such interesting points were being raised and I wrote and told him
this. Maybe he’ll change his mind later.

Nick

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

RE: dissing a Substance!!
—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!

Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look
left when
crossing the street

It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
the
ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
for
whom it  was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a
long time,
is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
as I
said often before.

I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.

Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside
the whole
ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could
say: we have
found that the rite the passage from  one type of lifestyle to another
is
sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it
works.Maybe
it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is
important as well,
but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When  it serves, it serves,
and
if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
think
you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
we
think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.

But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
at
all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick
being they
are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
ones, but that is a whole other story.
pc
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
so
I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
“junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
one
is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
is
coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
stop.
There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
bit
of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
the
person to stop if they no longer want to use.

Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
psychological than neurochemical.
Thank you for an interesting discussion

Nick

The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does,
experientially,
have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency –
the physical
aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
that
they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
propose ibogaine should be promoted?

Nick


————————————————-
Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
University of Amsterdam

Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands

mail address: postbox  94208
1090 GE Amsterdam

email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
fax +31-20-525 4317

World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
languages)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: GULFCOASTNAMA@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dreams and subcounciousness
Date: March 21, 2005 at 3:31:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you want to read a life-changing book related to consciousness, check out “Destiny of Souls”. It is just unbelievable! It really has made an influence in my thinking. Thanks ya’ll  Odubya

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 21, 2005 at 3:29:48 PM EST
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk, cohen.cedro@uva.nl, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Peter and Nick,

Thank you for your responses and to you Nick for sharing the communications
between yourself and Peter.

On the matter of language, the language used to describe ibogaine and
ibogaine therapy was chosen as it appeared to be required for drug regulatory
development issues.  We could not say to the FDA or Ministries of Health, that we
wished ibogaine approved for general betterment of the world.  We had to use
specific language that would demonstrate ibogaine was useful in treating a medical
condition.  After all that is what medications are for.

That aside, Peter, as Nick asks, what language would you use both to the drug
user who wishes to take ibogaine to allow them to stop heroin use as
sometimes it can be problematic to continue heroin use and to the regulatory agencies
who would hopefully allow ibogaine as an approved drug so that it could be
delivered to anyone who needed it through either private or social medical
insurance?

Thanks again to both of you.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 6:42:06 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

RE: dissing a Substance!!
—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!

Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a
complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s
life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than
wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when
crossing the street

It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by
the
ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use,
for
whom it  was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against
his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who
want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time,
is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road,
as I
said often before.

I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our
voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.

Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole
ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have
found that the rite the passage from  one type of lifestyle to another
is
sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe
it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well,
but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When  it serves, it serves,
and
if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we
will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we
think
you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because
we
think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.

But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided
at
all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they
are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential
ones, but that is a whole other story.
pc
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and
so
I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or
“junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad
feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see
where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that
one
is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically
cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the
individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone
is
coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the
therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of
helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they
cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all
this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to
stop.
There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a
bit
of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell
the
person to stop if they no longer want to use.

Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine.
Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it
works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more
psychological than neurochemical.
Thank you for an interesting discussion

Nick

The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially,
have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree
that
they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
propose ibogaine should be promoted?

Nick


————————————————-
Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
University of Amsterdam

Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands

mail address: postbox  94208
1090 GE Amsterdam

email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
fax +31-20-525 4317

World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
languages)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] The genuine article?
Date: March 21, 2005 at 3:22:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carlton,

The question you want to ask of the supplier is, whether their produce is
total root or root bark only.  Total root is a worthless product not used
anywhere in the world.  It is 90%+ wood and contains virtually no ibogaine.  Root
bark contains  usually between 2% and 4% ibogaine.  Sometimes less and sometimes
more.  The second question to your supplier would be if they have determined
the alkaloid content of their product and further if they have determined the
ibogaine content of their product.  Usually ibogaine is about 50% of the total
alkaloid content of Tabernanthe iboga root bark.

Let us know what they say.

As for the costs of ibogaine therapy, the key cost issue is in the care and
the personnel and time involved rather than in the cost of the crude root.
There is also a somewhat higher cost for purified ibogaine and to a lesser extent
for total alkaloid extracts.

Howard

In a message dated 3/21/05 1:47:58 AM, carltonb@mindspring.com writes:

Hello… I live in Japan and I’ve found that iboga is not illegal here.
The product being sold appears to be a grated root, at a price of US $30
for 5 grams.  It can be ordered on the internet.

How much is generally taken as a therapeutic dose?   Is there an easily
accessible way for me to verify that the product really is T. iboga?  I
am a little wary because the Japanese head shops deal in a lot of fly agaric
and sage extract, and like to re-market it as other things.

If this product can really be had for US $30, what exactly is going on
with these “treatment centers” charging $1,000 to $10,000 for the privilege
of eating a root?

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dreams and subcounciousness
Date: March 21, 2005 at 1:00:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dreams are fascinating in that our subcouncious tries to break free and show us/warn us of everything we need to know about….all the things we forget or repress its bound to show up in our dreams.  I have always been fascinated about dreaming/lucid dreaming et….NOw after ibogaine–10 weeks—i noticed that i udnerstnad the symbolism of my dreams with much more depth and i remember 90% of my dreams when i wake–quickly to write it dwon and anylze it later—-but my question is—-do you guys think ibogaine could expand our subcouncious to the level where we can decipher the symbolism behind our dreams with more ease…or is it maybe that since we are not using anything to numb our brain it is easier to remember and expand on everything>?

Warmest Regards

Matt

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: marcus israel <vesch69@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 21, 2005 at 11:10:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Dr. P,
Marcus (israel) writing to you from sunburn Fla
just yesterday i sent communication to the projectt
site, more or less to let them know that i’m alive and
relatively well (considering where i was and what i
was doing when they last experienced me)  i’ve been
w/o H & C since November , and last month finally
completed detoxification from Meth…decided to come
down here for myriad of reasons..
I think of you always and trust you are well
New e-mail address to use, please extend my greetings
to F, Dm, Dana, etc…
tell em to write,
with all the love i have to give,
Marcus  vesch69aol.com
vesch69@aol.com
if you
— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

HI all,
I have posted this report of my own first ibo
voyage here before, but in
light of some others reposting and simply posting
their experiences, I
thought what the heck, perhaps I should do the same,
so here’s my repost of
my report of my initial intiation into the ibo club
(one Nick I believe
belongs to too, so in that role I CAN listen to you
Nick – and I’m joking
with you Nick. BTW, you’re still misreading and
misquoting me at every
opportunity and I’m now at the point where
everything you post with my name
on it get’s immediately deleted. Our blatant dislike
for one another doesn’t
have to keep popping up on the public list for
everyone to share in- I don’t
like the way you insist on pretending I’m unwilling
to listen to you because
you aren’t a junkie or former junkie, and it appears
you are simply going to
insist that has some basis in reality- or at least
you have zero respect for
me and anything I’ve so far written and said as near
as I can tell from each
and every reply you have to anything I write is any
indication.
Admit it Nick, I drive you crazy because I use
lots of very strong
medically prescribed opiates legally and don’t seem
to suffer all the
stereotypical life problems you seem convinced I
have to suffer if I want
(and NEED) to use opiates- and it depresses and
pisses you off because I
don’t fit into the mold you keep trying to stuff me
into.
Anyway, here’s my own report of my own first ibo
experience, for those
who’ve arrive here since last August.

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
(image)
Ibogaine
“Watch for communications soon from another friend
of ours,” the Voice said,
almost giggling with glee. “He’s gonna have a number
for you to call, to get
in touch with some folk doing underground, guerilla
ibogaine treatments in
NYC, this coming August.”
Immediately I’m feeling all sorts of conflicting
emotions. Because here it
is, no more talking about wanting to do it, or
wondering on this or that
email list what the effects are and if it really,
really does work to
interrupt or cure or help people get over a wide
variety of addictions. If
it is here in my own city and I can get it at much
cheaper rates than were I
to fly to some foreign country where it’s either
legal or simply not
regulated at all yet, how in the hell am I, a
seasoned, proud proponent of
cognitive liberty and the free taking of powerful
mind expanding drugs, a
veritable Drug Expert, Author and psychonaut, going
to live it down if I
chicken out and say, “oh, no thank you”?
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL

There’s also a brief interview with the man
responsible for ibogaine
reaching NYC streets via guerilla
treatments just below the “kicking drugs with drugs”
piece on the mainpage
at DrugWar.com.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

(NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief
discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004
On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower
East Side, between my own
first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African
root that has been
reported useful in the kicking of a variety of
substance addictions and
self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers
and private individuals,
I carried out the following interview. I met in
Tompkins Square Park with
FM, who for the month of August was leading a band
of guerilla ibogaine
treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of
people with ibogaine for
myriad reasons.
Having been one of the lucky few who made contact
with this group and was
initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was
interested in hearing more
about the man who made this experience possible for
me and many other New
York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL)

Enjoy all and wish me luck finally traveling
tomorrow- Five hours to go
before I get picked up at my door to go to the
airport- boy do I have the
butterflies in my guts right now- I gotta smoke some
pot or something.
Sorry all, I sometimes I can’t help lashing out
with humorous slurs at
Nick- but it doesn’t have anything to do with
ibogaine or anything
constructive at all, so I apologize for allowing
myself such petty pleasures
publicly.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to
Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass
civilization

Hi Mat

Thanks for sending me the link to your experience
WOW have you indulged in
psychedelics before?? you express yourself very
well thanks for sharing.

I have some questions – you say in your writing
that ibogaine gave you
some
insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you
were always looking for
reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you
examples of this or did
the initial awareness spark off your own examples
– either way I’d love to
know what they were.

How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that
folk have the tests done
first? your journey seemed very short from what I
have read it should be
something from 2 days to a week –

Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to
if not?
Can you tell me some history of your addiction –
how long? to what? how
did
you use? IV smoke both etc.
Are you still clean how long has it been and what
have you tried before??
iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s
then thats okay just
don’t
answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you
could
=== message truncated ===

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 21, 2005 at 9:18:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 20.03.2005 um 21:03 schrieb Chris Hunter:

Wow, that was soaked in theory but thanks – I’m not sure how much I understand of what has been written but it looks good, I think. Hmm does it have to get so complicated?? I guess maybe it does, does it? can that be written without the scientific babble/?

Chris, sorry that it came across as babble. some terms used may be disputable but i tried to be rather clear since i´m myself opposed to the obscure postmodernist talk widespread in contemporary humanities that often leads to blatant irrationalism (see alan sokal for illustration) and withdraws potential for social change.
btw i find peter cohen makes clear statements for a good purpose, no matter what he thinks about ibogaine.
-ekki

Time for a glass of wine I think – I have a question for all on the list – has everyone that has experienced ibogaine managed to write down as much of the journey as possible including  a reflective analysis??

I just think it would make a great publication if it was all gathered together for others to add to – I bit like the Erowid experience vaults but more detailed

I know its an incredibly personal journey but we learn and grow only from each other and the earth.

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:18:01 +0100

what follows contains some theory stuff, you have been warned

Am 19.03.2005 um 22:46 schrieb Chris Hunter:

Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be nothing more than a capalist wet deam.

i took some notes this week that seem to correlate:

trends of contemporary mass civilization(adorno/horkheimer: dialectics of enlightenment(LA 1944)):
1- the growth of instrumental rationality (for profit margins/power) to the detriment of substantial/critical rationality
2- the subjugation of the individual and of nature to the dictates of (global) capital
3- the invasion of personal life by dehumanized structures of control
4- the proliferation of large-scale socially induced psychological pathology in the form of authoritarianism, police power and other variants on fascism
->?cultural effects of these tendencies in the spheres of the power/knowledge nexus, culture industries and language
->?contextualization within a global anthropological perspective on human consciousness

this results in, for example:
-exploitation and sellout of myths (like santa claus-coca cola), which also ends modernist and structuralist belief in them (in the history of literary criticism)
-the junky as parody of the ideal consumer mirroring over-production and doubling greed and self-destruction. heroin as parody of the ideal product.
-the rise of psychiatry and the “therapeutic state” (see thomas szasz)
-prohibition as an attempt to regain control over unmanagable (and unproductive in a way) subcultures
-the war against junkies as a way to canalize self-hate of capitalist society (again junky as mirror)
-power/profit/knowledge: withholding ibogaine as an effective way to change drug habits and gain insights
-jazzing up children with sugar and coffein and then calming them down with ritalin (see 1)
and so on

i just scribbles these points down and maybe its not precise and there are many more. they already represent opinions but i don´t try to impose any (yet;)) but am rather curious if and what comments there will be.

what i like about “dialectics of enlightenment” is that, while giving an appealing analysis that served as a starting point for post-modern theory, it was written too early to fall into the poststructuralist vertigo of underdetermined concepts and undecidable ambiguities which makes effective resistance (in theory) impossible.

cheers ekki

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 21, 2005 at 6:57:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 21 March 2005 06:01
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

HI all,
I have posted this report of my own first ibo voyage here
before, but in
light of some others reposting and simply posting their experiences, I
thought what the heck, perhaps I should do the same, so here’s my
repost of
my report of my initial intiation into the ibo club (one Nick I believe
belongs to too, so in that role I CAN listen to you Nick – and I’m joking
with you Nick. BTW, you’re still misreading and misquoting me at every
opportunity and I’m now at the point where everything you post
with my name
on it get’s immediately deleted. Our blatant dislike for one
another doesn’t
have to keep popping up on the public list for everyone to share
in- I don’t
like the way you insist on pretending I’m unwilling to listen to
you because
you aren’t a junkie or former junkie, and it appears you are
simply going to
insist that has some basis in reality- or at least you have zero
respect for
me and anything I’ve so far written and said as near as I can
tell from each
and every reply you have to anything I write is any indication.
Admit it Nick, I drive you crazy because I use lots of very strong
medically prescribed opiates legally and don’t seem to suffer all the
stereotypical life problems you seem convinced I have to suffer if I want
(and NEED) to use opiates- and it depresses and pisses you off because I
don’t fit into the mold you keep trying to stuff me into.
Anyway, here’s my own report of my own first ibo experience,
for those
who’ve arrive here since last August.

Hi Preston,

You don’t drive me crazy. I don’t feel like massively engaged with you. I
like to debate with you and personally I’d say I like you. For sure we
haven’t met yet, but one day.

I don’t really see how I’m misreading and misquoting you, to be honest. Can
you give me an example? I wrote the other day that I thought you dismissed
arguments presented to you that came from non-addicts, or non former
addicts, on the grounds that we didn’t know anything about drugs or drug
treatment. You wrote back that you were starting to listen to this but then
realized that I wasn’t a junkie and so couldn’t know where you were at.
Well, frankly, I’d say you were reinforcing what I was saying really.

I am happy that your life on drugs is good. I don’t feel depressed by it. If
you want to use drugs, what’s the problem? My position is I like to try and
move people towards not using heroin but it’s a waste of time except with
people who at least partly want to. I mean, we debate away but really,
anyone who didn’t want to listen would just tell me to fuck off. But you
stick with it and write long things justifying how you are, as if you need
to justify how you are, which tells me that somewhere you don’t really buy
your own position. I’m happy you’re like that.

Nick

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
(image)
Ibogaine
“Watch for communications soon from another friend of ours,” the
Voice said,
almost giggling with glee. “He’s gonna have a number for you to
call, to get
in touch with some folk doing underground, guerilla ibogaine
treatments in
NYC, this coming August.”
Immediately I’m feeling all sorts of conflicting emotions.
Because here it
is, no more talking about wanting to do it, or wondering on this or that
email list what the effects are and if it really, really does work to
interrupt or cure or help people get over a wide variety of
addictions. If
it is here in my own city and I can get it at much cheaper rates
than were I
to fly to some foreign country where it’s either legal or simply not
regulated at all yet, how in the hell am I, a seasoned, proud
proponent of
cognitive liberty and the free taking of powerful mind expanding drugs, a
veritable Drug Expert, Author and psychonaut, going to live it down if I
chicken out and say, “oh, no thank you”?
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL

There’s also a brief interview with the man responsible for ibogaine
reaching NYC streets via guerilla
treatments just below the “kicking drugs with drugs” piece on the
mainpage
at DrugWar.com.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

(NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004
On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower East Side,
between my own
first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African root that has been
reported useful in the kicking of a variety of substance addictions and
self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers and private
individuals,
I carried out the following interview. I met in Tompkins Square Park with
FM, who for the month of August was leading a band of guerilla ibogaine
treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of people with
ibogaine for
myriad reasons.
Having been one of the lucky few who made contact with this group and was
initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was interested in hearing more
about the man who made this experience possible for me and many other New
York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL)

Enjoy all and wish me luck finally traveling tomorrow- Five hours to go
before I get picked up at my door to go to the airport- boy do I have the
butterflies in my guts right now- I gotta smoke some pot or something.
Sorry all, I sometimes I can’t help lashing out with humorous
slurs at
Nick- but it doesn’t have anything to do with ibogaine or anything
constructive at all, so I apologize for allowing myself such
petty pleasures
publicly.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

Hi Mat

Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you
indulged in
psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for sharing.

I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you
some
insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always
looking for
reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of
this or did
the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way
I’d love to
know what they were.

How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the
tests done
first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should be
something from 2 days to a week –

Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not?
Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how
did
you use? IV smoke both etc.
Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you
tried before??
iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just
don’t
answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on
abductmeplease@hotmail.com

Much Love

Chris

_________________________________________________________________
It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: dissing a Substance!!
Date: March 21, 2005 at 6:41:21 AM EST
To: “Peter Cohen” <cohen.cedro@uva.nl>
Cc: “Ibogaine Mindvox” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 21 March 2005 07:35
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!

Dear Nick, the behaviour we diagnose with the word ‘dependency’ is a complex learned behaviour that is not ‘chemical’, but useful in someone’s life. Like all behaviours it has a physical side to it, no different than wanting to be world champion wrestling or having learned to look left when crossing the street

It is exactly the mirroring of the primitive ‘possession’ language by the ibo clan that I have tried to expose.
Have you ever met a person who just grew into intensive cocaine use, for whom it  was useful and pleasant, break this behaviour with ibo,against his/her will? You must have been struck by the fact that only people who want to change their drug use survival habits report some help from ibo.
Changing one’s ways, certainly after having learned them for a long time, is difficult, even if it is about simple things like crossong the road, as I said often before.

I am surprised you believe in the chemical dependency language that our voodoo (addiction) doctors speak.

Anyway, if some one would want promote the use of ibo ( inside the whole ritual of application and surroundings of sympathy) one could say: we have found that the rite the passage from  one type of lifestyle to another is sometimes eased by the ibo fest. We have not a clue as to how it works.Maybe it is very symbolical, and the love inside the ritual is important as well, but actually, we do not know.But who cares? When  it serves, it serves, and if it does not, tant pis, we will find something else for you.Togther we will find a solution for your desired change of survival skills.And we think you have every right to entertain these rituals, drug included, because we think adults are free to use any drug they fancy.

But the addiction/possession talk of our NIDA priests should be avoided at all costs, because it makes the ibo clients into a type of sick being they are definitely not. They may have serious mental problems, or existential ones, but that is a whole other story.
pc
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply. Personally, my background is more therapist and so I can see both uses and disadvantages of social labels like “addict” or “junkie.” Yes, there can be negative reinforcement and the rooting of bad feelings but, on the plus side, they can also get someone to really see where they are and not live in a dream world. When the realization that one is in a state of chemical dependence is recognized, that they physically cannot seem to stop using a drug, there usually develops a dynamic in the individual where one side wants to stop and another does not. If someone is coming for therapy to try and assist them stop, then it normal for the therapist to push the side in them that wants to stop.
As I see it, your theory doesn’t really deal with the nitty-gritty of helping someone who wants to stop using say, heroin, and yet finds they cannot do this alone, that they need help. The ibogaine, the therapy, all this stuff is available to help push the side in someone that wants to stop. There are other things that support the other side, and it is usually a bit of a battle. It seems to me that you would, in this situation, just tell the person to stop if they no longer want to use.

Also…thanks for putting out your ideas about how to promote ibogaine. Might I ask why you are so keen to state that “we have not a clue how it works”? It seems to me that there is some understanding, perhaps more psychological than neurochemical.
Thank you for an interesting discussion

Nick

The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially, have multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree that they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you propose ibogaine should be promoted?

Nick


————————————————-
Peter D.A. Cohen Ph.D
University of Amsterdam

Centre for Drug Research (CEDRO)
Office: Wibautstraat 4, Room D5.26
1091 GM Amsterdam The Netherlands

mail address: postbox  94208
1090 GE Amsterdam
email: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
tel: +31-20-525 4278 or mobile: +31 6227 89441
fax +31-20-525 4317

World Wide Web: http://www.cedro-uva.org (with a large selection of
original CEDRO reports and publications in dutch, english and other
languages)

From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 21, 2005 at 3:03:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hope you Enjoy Cali
The first 20 seconds are for you Preston.

Enjoy all and wish me luck finally traveling
tomorrow-

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm
Five hours to go
before I get picked up at my door to go to the
airport- boy do I have the
butterflies in my guts right now- I gotta smoke some
pot or something.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to
Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass
civilization

Hi Mat

Thanks for sending me the link to your experience
WOW have you indulged in
psychedelics before?? you express yourself very
well thanks for sharing.

I have some questions – you say in your writing
that ibogaine gave you
some
insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you
were always looking for
reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you
examples of this or did
the initial awareness spark off your own examples
– either way I’d love to
know what they were.

How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that
folk have the tests done
first? your journey seemed very short from what I
have read it should be
something from 2 days to a week –

Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to
if not?
Can you tell me some history of your addiction –
how long? to what? how
did
you use? IV smoke both etc.
Are you still clean how long has it been and what
have you tried before??
iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s
then thats okay just
don’t
answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you
could
=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Carlton B” <carltonb@mindspring.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] The genuine article?
Date: March 21, 2005 at 1:47:32 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello… I live in Japan and I’ve found that iboga is not illegal here.
The product being sold appears to be a grated root, at a price of US $30 for
5 grams.  It can be ordered on the internet.

How much is generally taken as a therapeutic dose?   Is there an easily
accessible way for me to verify that the product really is T. iboga?  I am a
little wary because the Japanese head shops deal in a lot of fly agaric and
sage extract, and like to re-market it as other things.

If this product can really be had for US $30, what exactly is going on with
these “treatment centers” charging $1,000 to $10,000 for the privilege of
eating a root?

Thanks….

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 21, 2005 at 1:01:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I have posted this report of my own first ibo voyage here before, but in light of some others reposting and simply posting their experiences, I thought what the heck, perhaps I should do the same, so here’s my repost of my report of my initial intiation into the ibo club (one Nick I believe belongs to too, so in that role I CAN listen to you Nick – and I’m joking with you Nick. BTW, you’re still misreading and misquoting me at every opportunity and I’m now at the point where everything you post with my name on it get’s immediately deleted. Our blatant dislike for one another doesn’t have to keep popping up on the public list for everyone to share in- I don’t like the way you insist on pretending I’m unwilling to listen to you because you aren’t a junkie or former junkie, and it appears you are simply going to insist that has some basis in reality- or at least you have zero respect for me and anything I’ve so far written and said as near as I can tell from each and every reply you have to anything I write is any indication.
Admit it Nick, I drive you crazy because I use lots of very strong medically prescribed opiates legally and don’t seem to suffer all the stereotypical life problems you seem convinced I have to suffer if I want (and NEED) to use opiates- and it depresses and pisses you off because I don’t fit into the mold you keep trying to stuff me into.
Anyway, here’s my own report of my own first ibo experience, for those who’ve arrive here since last August.

http://www.drugwar.com/pkickingdrugswithdrugs.shtm

Kicking Drugs with Drugs-
Taking the Left Hand Path
By Preston Peet
For DrugWar.com
Posted August 12, 2004
(image)
Ibogaine
“Watch for communications soon from another friend of ours,” the Voice said, almost giggling with glee. “He’s gonna have a number for you to call, to get in touch with some folk doing underground, guerilla ibogaine treatments in NYC, this coming August.”
Immediately I’m feeling all sorts of conflicting emotions. Because here it is, no more talking about wanting to do it, or wondering on this or that email list what the effects are and if it really, really does work to interrupt or cure or help people get over a wide variety of addictions. If it is here in my own city and I can get it at much cheaper rates than were I to fly to some foreign country where it’s either legal or simply not regulated at all yet, how in the hell am I, a seasoned, proud proponent of cognitive liberty and the free taking of powerful mind expanding drugs, a veritable Drug Expert, Author and psychonaut, going to live it down if I chicken out and say, “oh, no thank you”?
snip-
Read Complete Article at above URL

There’s also a brief interview with the man responsible for ibogaine reaching NYC streets via guerilla
treatments just below the “kicking drugs with drugs” piece on the mainpage at DrugWar.com.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

(NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004
On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower East Side, between my own first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African root that has been reported useful in the kicking of a variety of substance addictions and self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers and private individuals, I carried out the following interview. I met in Tompkins Square Park with FM, who for the month of August was leading a band of guerilla ibogaine treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of people with ibogaine for myriad reasons.
Having been one of the lucky few who made contact with this group and was initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was interested in hearing more about the man who made this experience possible for me and many other New York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL)

Enjoy all and wish me luck finally traveling tomorrow- Five hours to go before I get picked up at my door to go to the airport- boy do I have the butterflies in my guts right now- I gotta smoke some pot or something.
Sorry all, I sometimes I can’t help lashing out with humorous slurs at Nick- but it doesn’t have anything to do with ibogaine or anything constructive at all, so I apologize for allowing myself such petty pleasures publicly.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization

Hi Mat

Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you indulged in
psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for sharing.

I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you some
insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always looking for
reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of this or did
the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way I’d love to
know what they were.

How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the tests done
first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should be
something from 2 days to a week –

Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not?
Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how did
you use? IV smoke both etc.
Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you tried before??
iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just don’t
answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on
abductmeplease@hotmail.com

Much Love

Chris

_________________________________________________________________
It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today!
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] two talks I wanted more info on please.
Date: March 20, 2005 at 8:08:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The talks I was most interested in were ibogaine maintenance and the
ibogaine safety talk. I have read the ibogaine manual but the talk Dr.
Kamlet gave contained much more information that was specific and
isn’t available there. I really also wanted the ibogaine maintenance
talk frm Patrick Kroupa. I have looked online and in pubmed and what
he talked about doesn’t exist, or there is nobody else doing it. There
is no research at all about giving ibogaine on a daily basis or to
people who are still using opiates. I very much would appreciate even
a summary of these two talks if neither one of you want them on
Mindvox or online. Both talks are missing from the conference
presentations Howard Lotsof posted to the Ibogaine Dossier.

I understand both of you are busy and don’t read all this every day
but whenever you have a chance it would be much appreciated. Thank
you.

KV

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 18:22:29 EST, Schmoolyboy@aol.com
<Schmoolyboy@aol.com> wrote:

What do you want? asummary of my lecture. I do not want my slides perse , to
be out thwere. I have recieved many requwsts for them. I will be glad to
wriye up a summary if that is what you seek.

About Sainthood, don’t hold your breath but i will do my best.

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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 20, 2005 at 6:56:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris,

Remembering that alcohol, tobacco, coca leaves, cocoa beans, etc., were all sacraments powerful enough to change energy states and create sacred space when used in a sacred fashion… and similarly, like Santa Claus, when taken out of their sacred matrices, still have enormous power, but are no longer used only  “for the good.”  I think, I hope,  ibogaine and ayahuasca are powerful and intense enough not to be so easily packaged by the pharm industry, and so will hopefully remain in their sacred circles, retaining their sacred power….and what does sacred mean? Powerful, effective, real change, for (the) good.

xo,
Kiersten

On Mar 19, 2005, at 1:46 PM, Chris Hunter wrote:

Hi Kiersten

Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be nothing more than a capalist wet deam.

what are your thoughts on ibogaine?

Much Love

Chris

From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:15:30 -0800

Santa Claus is a Saami [Lapplander] shaman who has a message of  abundance and transcendence for us–but Coca Cola stole his identity in  the 1920s……there is power and truth even in the sold out stories  they tell us. penetrate to the core, and be free.

On Mar 17, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Chris Hunter wrote:

howdy M

I liketo follow that idea of evolution, maybe Ibogaine is another step  but instead of the big bang style awakening its more like a fine  tuning of an already well developed spirit and soul. The thing that  gets in the way is as you say negativity.

I think that something on this planet is growing from our negativity –  this is maybe why the media and governments keep bleding our hearts  and minds with such imagery of darckness and misery.

I don’t understand how we got to this point is our development to do  nothing but soak ourselves in greed and power. I know sod all about  this planet and little more about myslef, because I’ve been playing  the game thats sold to us as Santa Claus is sold to us from childhood.

Its time to start making a new game I think and all it takes are  ‘thoughts’ because nothing is what it is without a firstly being one  thought shared and felt be the people of this planet.

Good news is all around us but we fail to see it every day becasue we  are blinkered by the powers of government the ultimate manipulators.

Look to the earth and feel the only real power – nature, love and light

Good thoughts
Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get  a habit?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:16:49 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!   http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Date: March 17, 2005 6:16:49 AM PST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get  a habit?
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Chris

I wouldnt be suprised if sacred substances did spark the evolution on  this planet.  Take Eboga for example…lets say millions of years ago  a chimp stumbled on eboga by accident and ingested it……No matter  wha his brain capacity he would get in tuned with the whole  universe…maybe he wouldnt undesrtand anything aat first but with  time his counciousnes would expand and begin to evolve……i agree  with you about the whole issue of legal/illegal drugs–i mean why the  fuck is alchohol leagal and causes more deaths than heroin/coke etc  combined and is extremly addictive–that just makes no sense –i think  its a big political game–a big reason there is so much drugs is  because alot of what is confiscated goes right back on the  street,etc….yes brother unity is everything!!!!!!!!without it we are  lost…..if we as a society dont realize we are all one we will perish  in dispondency….without love there is hate and with hate the  negative nergy not only will have imense impact on this planet but in  all this beautifull universe……ONe love

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter”  <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use  Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:25:32  +0000 Hi Mat Its a shame when folk milk the system and that happens a  lot in the UK to. Methadone is another addiction but on the scale of  things its safer than H and much easier to control. I guess it depends  on what the individual wants to do, many people seem to need some sort  of drug in their systems for a million reasons. What about  legalisation?? Drugs have been with us since our perception of time  began, in fact some would argue that certain drugs actually sparked  the evolution of human consciouness. I don’t see how it helps to have  drugs classified as legal and illegal – it seems to give many people  the green light to abuse themselves with some false perception that  maybe alcohol is safe and Heroin is dangerous?? this sort of system  also allows many others to kill themselves with dirty drugs,  equipmment, social stigma and criminal justice systems becasue they  chose to use somethng like Heroin. Is it not about time that we as a  race acknowledgee that we do take drugs and always will take drugs and  start to look at how we can enhance our perception, tune our spirits  and help those who take it too far with as much support as possible.  Obvioulsy we would need to buy into a new way of thinking and tune out  of the negative false perception that governments use to bleed us all  dry. Unity is all there really is – we’ve just been detuned from it.  Just a few thoughts Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski”  <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use  Methadone before you >get a habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:35:49  -0500 >  _________________________________________________________________ Want  to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >>  /]=——————————————————————– -=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=——————————————————————– -=[/

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Kiersten Leigh Johnson, M.A.

Department of Rhetoric
Program in Film Studies
7408 Dwinelle Hall #2670
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-2670

Mobile phone: 510.508.9597
TeleFAX: 510.642.8881

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Pychic Divas
firebright@mac.com
510 508 9597
510 932 3048

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and also…
Date: March 20, 2005 at 6:25:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry about the poor spelling, I am doing this in the dark

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and also…
Date: March 20, 2005 at 6:22:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What do you want? asummary of my lecture. I do not want my slides perse , to be out thwere. I have recieved many requwsts for them. I will be glad to wriye up a summary if that is what you seek.

About Sainthood, don’t hold your breath but i will do my best.

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 5:16:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
I love sharing my experience with anybody who will listen….i did acid and mushrooms ocasionly when i was 16-19 and had some meanigfull spirtual trips but never anything like this…. i got the insight into why i coldnt stop by a clear voice in my head stating those exact phrases ” u were always looking for reasons to start using instead of loking for reasons to stop…….and even if iu did manage to stop u would start again because u thought smack was devine……” and after that everything clicked …..but i had no imagees or visions of it…..just when the trip ended i anylezed that voice and understood that all my past failures of abstiance were exactly due to those errors….i was supose to do the ekg and blood test but in all honesty i didnt care if ibo killed me or cured me …i knew that people with hep c with liver enzymes above 200% should be excluded…..my liver enzymes were more than 500% above—-if im correct and i think iam—–.i was too far gone back then….i did ibo by my self in my room….i would definetly recomend somebody to watch over the other person ….no ifs or buts…my case of adiction is a bit complicated becasue i was seeing a psychiatrist during the 2 of my 5 years of adcition so i had a huge habit to benzos and a prety big habit to opioids/opiates becasue i was prescribed massive doesses of diazepam/lorazepam/clonazepam.bromazepam then the oxycontin or diluidid or morphine or fentanyl and it was all free –free for about two years with prescriptions coming every week -2 weeks –so u know…..but before ibo i was using half a gram a day of H with binges of oxy/diluaid/fentanyl whenever i had them…. IV…… also i continued with the benzos cause i still suffered from anxiety insomnia even if it was psycosomatic …although the benzos where not in such massive doses….
on tues its going to be exactly 10 weeks when i did ibo…..i used once 2 weeks ago and im REALLY glad i did because i confirmed to my self that junk is exactly that –JUNK…the reason i did use is i wanted to see if all that shit was worth all the fucken hussle…..it sure wasnt and definetly isnt….it feels good and all but its fucken dirty….the whole exp really put me off with the needles and spoons and seeing my junkie friend shaking from excitemtn when he was cookng his hit was fucken disgusting…..i puked my guts out for the rest of the day and i never puked on h before so that put off even more….i gave the rest of the half gram i bought to my junkie friend and got the fuck out of there……i might due it here and there to take the presure off but there is no way i could do it on a daily basis or even a weekend thing….i dont want to say i got it under control because its so fucken powerful but i feel extremly confident about ever getting a physical habit from it again…from that moment my cravings have almost vanished…take care brother


Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:52:24 +0000 Hi Mat Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you indulged in psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for sharing. I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you some insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always looking for reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of this or did the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way I’d love to know what they were. How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the tests done first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should be something from 2 days to a week – Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not? Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how did you use? IV smoke both etc. Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you tried before?? iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just don’t answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on abductmeplease@hotmail.com Much Love Chris _________________________________________________________________ It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Date: March 20, 2005 at 4:53:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Dana Beal [mailto:dana@phantom.com]
Sent: 20 March 2005 16:55
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc

On Mar 19, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

That said, I will allow myself one second or two to say you’ve
completely ignored every single thing I’ve ever written or said
apparently if that’s really what you think of me Nick, but that’s ok
with me. I could care less any more about you or your opinion (except
that once again, I’ve bothered to reply, so I obviously don’t
completely don’t care, just almost completely). You’ve certainly not
gotten a single thing right about me or the way I view life or even
you apparently, but again, that’s ok with me. You’re … (short
useless statement about my feelings about you snipped here.)
So, Have a life Nick and I Hope it’s a happy one for you, but you
bore the hell out of me, specially answering emails that are nearly
three weeks old now.

You know, the problem is, this is not really about Preston and Nick.

Hey Dana,

Er, I think it is actually. But feel free to leap in and introduce a string
of not so relevant material (in your timeless manner) anyway.

After a successful meeting with Cong. Nadler’s new aide, who’s totally
into ibo, I contacted Gene Guerrero at OSI (Soros) about finding
Republican co-sponsors for an appropriation, and Gene had never heard
of Ibogaine.

This is a guy who works with Nadelman, who certainly knows about ibo,
but just never tells anyone else it’s a live option.

“The leading personalities of the legalization movement have decided
there is no chance of a hallucinogen being approved to treat
addiction,” quoth David Guard.

The problem is not amongst us, the ibo list. The problem is Peter Cohen
and others leading (in the words of Al White) “a little concerted
effort to keep this thing from the public.”

I don’t think Peter is doing this really. He’s a social theorist. He doesn’t
have a gripe with ibogaine itself, as I understand it, he just doesn’t like
the language people use to promote it. I’m posting what he wrote me, and a
response, today below.

Nick

—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 19 March 2005 22:57
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Subject: RE: dissing a Substance!!

Of course my position has  political  implications,and I look at attitudes
or scientific positions not only from a purely theoretical view.

I do not have a problem with ibogaine as a substance. I do not quite grasp
what you could mean by saying that ibogaine ‘does not fit in’ with me. I
have no problem with any substance people like to take, for any reason. I
have a discussion with the ibo clan about what they make out of ibo and the
language they use to attribute functionality to it because of the politics
behind it, exactly because I perceive the ibo people as potential collegues.
I would have never gone thru the trouble if I did not like many of them or
found their struggle without meaning.

I think that fighting for a free use of ibo is worthwile, but not by
identifying with the ennemy. I speak about constructed reasons for using
ibo, not about a substance per se.

Maybe my infighting serves no one and nothing. But I hope I have been able
to at least illustrate what I mean, and what the the ibo clan language means
according to me. If not I  either stop or do a better job.
pc

Dear Peter,

Many thanks for clarifying that you have no problem with ibogaine itself. I
understand now that it is merely the way that some people promote ibogaine
that causes you to react in the way you do. I admire your position on drugs.
The only thing is…..ibogaine is a drug which does, experientially, have
multiple effects useful in breaking chemical dependency – the physical
aspects of dependency, that is, not the societal aspects (to the degree that
they can be separated). So….what I would ask you is – how would you
propose ibogaine should be promoted?

Nick

All in the name of freedom for users of illicit substances. “For our
own good.”

And yes, Peter, I understand all your arguments. I just don’t agree
with them. And you have never responded, point by point, to a thing
I’ve said.

Dana/cnw

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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 3:52:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mat

Thanks for sending me the link to your experience WOW have you indulged in psychedelics before?? you express yourself very well thanks for sharing.

I have some questions – you say in your writing that ibogaine gave you some insights into why you struggled to stop – ie “you were always looking for reasons to start instead of stop” did it show you examples of this or did the initial awareness spark off your own examples – either way I’d love to know what they were.

How is your heart now?? Would you recommend that folk have the tests done first? your journey seemed very short from what I have read it should be something from 2 days to a week –

Did you use a sitter? Would you have preferred to if not?
Can you tell me some history of your addiction – how long? to what? how did you use? IV smoke both etc.
Are you still clean how long has it been and what have you tried before??
iF you are not comfortable with any of these ?’s then thats okay just don’t answer o r if you’d rather keep them off list you could email me on abductmeplease@hotmail.com

Much Love

Chris

_________________________________________________________________
It’s fast, it’s easy and it’s free. Get MSN Messenger today! http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 3:14:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
i have writen down my ibo experience…i posted it a few days ago..i love sharing my exprience–hell of a trip i tell u:}

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:03:21 +0000 Wow, that was soaked in theory but thanks – I’m not sure how much I understand of what has been written but it looks good, I think. Hmm does it have to get so complicated?? I guess maybe it does, does it? can that be written without the scientific babble/? Time for a glass of wine I think – I have a question for all on the list – has everyone that has experienced ibogaine managed to write down as much of the journey as possible including a reflective analysis?? I just think it would make a great publication if it was all gathered together for others to add to – I bit like the Erowid experience vaults but more detailed I know its an incredibly personal journey but we learn and grow only from each other and the earth. >From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization >Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:18:01 +0100 > >what follows contains some theory stuff, you have been warned > >Am 19.03.2005 um 22:46 schrieb Chris Hunter: >> >>Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to >>this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and >>power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I >>was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be >>nothing more than a capalist wet deam. >> > >i took some notes this week that seem to correlate: > >trends of contemporary mass civilization(adorno/horkheimer: >dialectics of enlightenment(LA 1944)): >1- the growth of instrumental rationality (for profit margins/power) >to the detriment of substantial/critical rationality >2- the subjugation of the individual and of nature to the dictates >of (global) capital >3- the invasion of personal life by dehumanized structures of >control >4- the proliferation of large-scale socially induced psychological >pathology in the form of authoritarianism, police power and other >variants on fascism >->?cultural effects of these tendencies in the spheres of the >power/knowledge nexus, culture industries and language >->?contextualization within a global anthropological perspective on >human consciousness > >this results in, for example: >-exploitation and sellout of myths (like santa claus-coca cola), >which also ends modernist and structuralist belief in them (in the >history of literary criticism) >-the junky as parody of the ideal consumer mirroring over-production >and doubling greed and self-destruction. heroin as parody of the >ideal product. >-the rise of psychiatry and the “therapeutic state” (see thomas >szasz) >-prohibition as an attempt to regain control over unmanagable (and >unproductive in a way) subcultures >-the war against junkies as a way to canalize self-hate of >capitalist society (again junky as mirror) >-power/profit/knowledge: withholding ibogaine as an effective way to >change drug habits and gain insights >-jazzing up children with sugar and coffein and then calming them >down with ritalin (see 1) >and so on > >i just scribbles these points down and maybe its not precise and >there are many more. they already represent opinions but i donīt try >to impose any (yet;)) but am rather curious if and what comments >there will be. > >what i like about “dialectics of enlightenment” is that, while >giving an appealing analysis that served as a starting point for >post-modern theory, it was written too early to fall into the >poststructuralist vertigo of underdetermined concepts and >undecidable ambiguities which makes effective resistance (in theory) >impossible. > >cheers ekki > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > >\]=———————————————————————=[/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: ibo stories
Date: March 20, 2005 at 3:47:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

I also posted my story online.  You can read it here
if you want to:
http://www.ibogatherapy.org/IbonautCafe/186.aspx

Hope everyone is doing great,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 3:14:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Chris
i have writen down my ibo experience…i posted it a few days ago..i love sharing my exprience–hell of a trip i tell u:}

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 20:03:21 +0000 Wow, that was soaked in theory but thanks – I’m not sure how much I understand of what has been written but it looks good, I think. Hmm does it have to get so complicated?? I guess maybe it does, does it? can that be written without the scientific babble/? Time for a glass of wine I think – I have a question for all on the list – has everyone that has experienced ibogaine managed to write down as much of the journey as possible including a reflective analysis?? I just think it would make a great publication if it was all gathered together for others to add to – I bit like the Erowid experience vaults but more detailed I know its an incredibly personal journey but we learn and grow only from each other and the earth. >From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization >Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:18:01 +0100 > >what follows contains some theory stuff, you have been warned > >Am 19.03.2005 um 22:46 schrieb Chris Hunter: >> >>Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to >>this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and >>power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I >>was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be >>nothing more than a capalist wet deam. >> > >i took some notes this week that seem to correlate: > >trends of contemporary mass civilization(adorno/horkheimer: >dialectics of enlightenment(LA 1944)): >1- the growth of instrumental rationality (for profit margins/power) >to the detriment of substantial/critical rationality >2- the subjugation of the individual and of nature to the dictates >of (global) capital >3- the invasion of personal life by dehumanized structures of >control >4- the proliferation of large-scale socially induced psychological >pathology in the form of authoritarianism, police power and other >variants on fascism >->?cultural effects of these tendencies in the spheres of the >power/knowledge nexus, culture industries and language >->?contextualization within a global anthropological perspective on >human consciousness > >this results in, for example: >-exploitation and sellout of myths (like santa claus-coca cola), >which also ends modernist and structuralist belief in them (in the >history of literary criticism) >-the junky as parody of the ideal consumer mirroring over-production >and doubling greed and self-destruction. heroin as parody of the >ideal product. >-the rise of psychiatry and the “therapeutic state” (see thomas >szasz) >-prohibition as an attempt to regain control over unmanagable (and >unproductive in a way) subcultures >-the war against junkies as a way to canalize self-hate of >capitalist society (again junky as mirror) >-power/profit/knowledge: withholding ibogaine as an effective way to >change drug habits and gain insights >-jazzing up children with sugar and coffein and then calming them >down with ritalin (see 1) >and so on > >i just scribbles these points down and maybe its not precise and >there are many more. they already represent opinions but i donīt try >to impose any (yet;)) but am rather curious if and what comments >there will be. > >what i like about “dialectics of enlightenment” is that, while >giving an appealing analysis that served as a starting point for >post-modern theory, it was written too early to fall into the >poststructuralist vertigo of underdetermined concepts and >undecidable ambiguities which makes effective resistance (in theory) >impossible. > >cheers ekki > > > >/]=———————————————————————=[\ >[%] Ibogaine List Commands: >http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > >\]=———————————————————————=[/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 20, 2005 at 3:03:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, that was soaked in theory but thanks – I’m not sure how much I understand of what has been written but it looks good, I think. Hmm does it have to get so complicated?? I guess maybe it does, does it? can that be written without the scientific babble/?

Time for a glass of wine I think – I have a question for all on the list – has everyone that has experienced ibogaine managed to write down as much of the journey as possible including  a reflective analysis??

I just think it would make a great publication if it was all gathered together for others to add to – I bit like the Erowid experience vaults but more detailed

I know its an incredibly personal journey but we learn and grow only from each other and the earth.

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2005 00:18:01 +0100

what follows contains some theory stuff, you have been warned

Am 19.03.2005 um 22:46 schrieb Chris Hunter:

Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be nothing more than a capalist wet deam.

i took some notes this week that seem to correlate:

trends of contemporary mass civilization(adorno/horkheimer: dialectics of enlightenment(LA 1944)):
1- the growth of instrumental rationality (for profit margins/power) to the detriment of substantial/critical rationality
2- the subjugation of the individual and of nature to the dictates of (global) capital
3- the invasion of personal life by dehumanized structures of control
4- the proliferation of large-scale socially induced psychological pathology in the form of authoritarianism, police power and other variants on fascism
->?cultural effects of these tendencies in the spheres of the power/knowledge nexus, culture industries and language
->?contextualization within a global anthropological perspective on human consciousness

this results in, for example:
-exploitation and sellout of myths (like santa claus-coca cola), which also ends modernist and structuralist belief in them (in the history of literary criticism)
-the junky as parody of the ideal consumer mirroring over-production and doubling greed and self-destruction. heroin as parody of the ideal product.
-the rise of psychiatry and the “therapeutic state” (see thomas szasz)
-prohibition as an attempt to regain control over unmanagable (and unproductive in a way) subcultures
-the war against junkies as a way to canalize self-hate of capitalist society (again junky as mirror)
-power/profit/knowledge: withholding ibogaine as an effective way to change drug habits and gain insights
-jazzing up children with sugar and coffein and then calming them down with ritalin (see 1)
and so on

i just scribbles these points down and maybe its not precise and there are many more. they already represent opinions but i donīt try to impose any (yet;)) but am rather curious if and what comments there will be.

what i like about “dialectics of enlightenment” is that, while giving an appealing analysis that served as a starting point for post-modern theory, it was written too early to fall into the poststructuralist vertigo of underdetermined concepts and undecidable ambiguities which makes effective resistance (in theory) impossible.

cheers ekki

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) meatrix.
Date: March 20, 2005 at 2:10:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara, you are some fantastic woman!!  I plugged in our zip code and got the list of
businesses (wholesome foods, etc.) that I shop at locally.  Thanks so much.  Nice
to have this site such that I can send it to friends.  Thanks

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 12:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) meatrix.

http://www.themeatrix.com/action/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Date: March 20, 2005 at 1:52:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know, the problem is, this is not really about Preston and Nick.<

understatement of the year.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Dana Beal” <dana@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <cohen.cedro@uva.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc

On Mar 19, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

That said, I will allow myself one second or two to say you’ve completely ignored every single thing I’ve ever written or said apparently if that’s really what you think of me Nick, but that’s ok with me. I could care less any more about you or your opinion (except that once again, I’ve bothered to reply, so I obviously don’t completely don’t care, just almost completely). You’ve certainly not gotten a single thing right about me or the way I view life or even you apparently, but again, that’s ok with me. You’re … (short useless statement about my feelings about you snipped here.)
So, Have a life Nick and I Hope it’s a happy one for you, but you bore the hell out of me, specially answering emails that are nearly three weeks old now.

You know, the problem is, this is not really about Preston and Nick.

After a successful meeting with Cong. Nadler’s new aide, who’s totally into ibo, I contacted Gene Guerrero at OSI (Soros) about finding Republican co-sponsors for an appropriation, and Gene had never heard of Ibogaine.

This is a guy who works with Nadelman, who certainly knows about ibo, but just never tells anyone else it’s a live option.

“The leading personalities of the legalization movement have decided there is no chance of a hallucinogen being approved to treat addiction,” quoth David Guard.

The problem is not amongst us, the ibo list. The problem is Peter Cohen and others leading (in the words of Al White) “a little concerted effort to keep this thing from the public.”

All in the name of freedom for users of illicit substances. “For our own good.”

And yes, Peter, I understand all your arguments. I just don’t agree with them. And you have never responded, point by point, to a thing I’ve said.

Dana/cnw

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) meatrix.
Date: March 20, 2005 at 12:58:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.themeatrix.com/action/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [Ibogaine] new tune…
Date: March 20, 2005 at 12:00:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

made from samples of music from an bwiti iboga ritual…

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Date: March 20, 2005 at 11:54:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 19, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

That said, I will allow myself one second or two to say you’ve completely ignored every single thing I’ve ever written or said apparently if that’s really what you think of me Nick, but that’s ok with me. I could care less any more about you or your opinion (except that once again, I’ve bothered to reply, so I obviously don’t completely don’t care, just almost completely). You’ve certainly not gotten a single thing right about me or the way I view life or even you apparently, but again, that’s ok with me. You’re … (short useless statement about my feelings about you snipped here.)
So, Have a life Nick and I Hope it’s a happy one for you, but you bore the hell out of me, specially answering emails that are nearly three weeks old now.

You know, the problem is, this is not really about Preston and Nick.

After a successful meeting with Cong. Nadler’s new aide, who’s totally into ibo, I contacted Gene Guerrero at OSI (Soros) about finding Republican co-sponsors for an appropriation, and Gene had never heard of Ibogaine.

This is a guy who works with Nadelman, who certainly knows about ibo, but just never tells anyone else it’s a live option.

“The leading personalities of the legalization movement have decided there is no chance of a hallucinogen being approved to treat addiction,” quoth David Guard.

The problem is not amongst us, the ibo list. The problem is Peter Cohen and others leading (in the words of Al White) “a little concerted effort to keep this thing from the public.”

All in the name of freedom for users of illicit substances. “For our own good.”

And yes, Peter, I understand all your arguments. I just don’t agree with them. And you have never responded, point by point, to a thing I’ve said.

Dana/cnw

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Date: March 20, 2005 at 10:30:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: 19 March 2005 18:11
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc

Nick scribbled in his usual delued and completely out of touch
with any sort
of reality connected to my own life anyway

Well, I figure saying this stuff is just a way for Preston and others to
keep us out. “You haven’t been a heroin addict so I don’t have to
listen to
what you have to say.” Routine shit the mind does when it doesn’t want to
hear something -<

I almost let you get my goat here Nick, but then realized yet
again, you are
so “not in my club” that you aren’t worth my bother any more.
;-))

Hey Preston,

Many thanks for this one. It’s a great response, man. “I almost listened to
what you were saying there about me shutting people out by saying they’re
not junkies and so not like me….then I realized you’re not a junkie so I
don’t have to listen to what you’re saying.”

That said, I will allow myself one second or two to say you’ve
completely ignored every single thing I’ve ever written or said
apparently
if that’s really what you think of me Nick, but that’s ok with
me. I could
care less any more about you or your opinion (except that once
again, I’ve
bothered to reply, so I obviously don’t completely don’t care,
just almost
completely). You’ve certainly not gotten a single thing right about me or
the way I view life or even you apparently, but again, that’s ok with me.
You’re … (short useless statement about my feelings about you snipped
here.)
So, Have a life Nick and I Hope it’s a happy one for you,
but you bore
the hell out of me, specially answering emails that are nearly
three weeks
old now.

Sorry about that, been in Bali, snorting liquid tobacco with Ratu Bagus. No
internet. My life’s happy, yes.

Nick

For those who’ve been writing about getting clean or clear using
ibogaine lately (I did see some messages come through here in the
last week
or two related to that, no?), more power to you all, and I hope
everything
is going well for you all. Randy, I hope you’re still scaring the
straight
folk with your new you, and to the rest of you, have a great day too.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

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From: “Mustafa izgi” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hi Randy!!!!
Date: March 20, 2005 at 4:43:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy,
I’m still clean and very very happy. I will be married at the end of this month so I’m affraid of to ruin everything once again. I have two different wishes that conflicting with the other one. One of them is escape everything and everykind of responsibilty other one is to mary with the woman of my life…

What about you? To stay clean and to be an adult one is still hard for you too? But I suppose you are in the ‘normal life’ already. But I think there is so many dificulties in our ‘ clean’ lifes…

Please write me. Your valuable comments are very improtand for me.

Wormest Regards
M

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:36:07 -0500

Preston, just remeber if you use the barf bag to save it, we could sell it on E bay. Preston Peet’s barf bag would have to be worth something.   Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:43:41 -0800
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..

Hi Preston,

about your travels…a few things that have helped me: pack your stuff at a leisurely pace way ahead of time. this way, you know that you have everything you need.

These things might seem kinda girlie, but man they work: wear slip-on shoes–easy for airport security and for slipping off during the flight. bring a pair of soft warm cashmere socks to wear while on the plane. get one of those half-donut neck pillows [best with buckwheat on the inside, the inflatable ones work too, but they are a bit less comfortable tho easier to transport] and douse it with organic lavender oil. bring a soft eye pillow thingie [what are those called? sleep masks?]–these are enormously helpful, because they cut out all that weird light. douse that with lavender, too. if you can, get some noise canceling headphones [Bose has some for a pretty penny–make the production company buy them for you!] for all the fatiguing engine noise. Drink liter after liter after liter of water. Never stop drinking. get some evian spray for your face and spritz yourself every so often. finally, make sure you moisturize your hands and face and lips every so often–this will make you more comfortable and you will be pretty and soft when you arrive. finally, attending to all of this hilariously fussy self-comfort stuff will completely distract you from everything else going on!!
have a great time.
kiersten

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_________________________________________________________________
Sadece sohbet ile yetinmeyin – eglneceye de doymak için Messenger’i tercih edin! http://messenger.msn.com/?mkt=tr&DI=3490&XAPID=2584

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and also…
Date: March 19, 2005 at 9:20:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/19/05 1:39:05 AM, jeffgd1@aol.com writes:

I am still seeking something it seems.

Hi Jeff,

When you stop seeking you will be either a saint or dead.  I look forward to
being informed of your sainthood.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] NYC ibogaine forum presentations
Date: March 19, 2005 at 9:18:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those of you who could not attend the NYC Ibogaine Forum, the Ibogaine
Dossier has now received a number of presentations that have been placed on the
Dossier.  Additional reports are expected but, here is what is available now
from the links at http://www.ibogaine.org/nyc2005.html or
http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/nyc2005.html

Howard

“Ibogaine Forms, Dose and Dose Regimens”

“Music Therapy and Ibogaine Treatment: Harmonic Symbiosis ”

“New Findings: Dopamine, Craving and Ibogaine Effects”

“Ibogaine and Gene Expression”

“Survey Methamphetamine Treatments with Ibogaine.”

“Ibogaine: Anti-viral Effects”

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From: Morning Wood <morning_wood263@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Sacrament] Re: *_* Spectrum Analysis Values of the Ibogaine Molecule
Date: March 19, 2005 at 7:07:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, sacrament@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: sacrament@mindvox.com

Please Forward.  Thx =)


On spectrum analysis values of the ibogaine-molecule

I’m trying to find/make the audible sound of the
Ibogaine molecule
for….
about 10 years now… and am not getting nowhere…
We have some Ibogaine specters at
http://sacrament.kibla.si/
Please help yourself, and hope you’ll send us THE
sound when you make
it
=)
Marko

thank you marko
especially the ir-spectre looks interesting.

for the beginning:
if i take 2 peaks at 221 and 280 nm with relative
amplitude 5:1 and
double them for getting them into the visible
spectrum, then devide the
speed of light by them then i get about 678,3 * 10^12
sec^-1 and 535,4
* 10^12 sec^-1 which is orange and blue

THE COLORS OF IBOGAINE MAY LOOK LIKE THIS OR MAYBE I
AM WRONG 🙂
~
It’s more red and bluish green , iīm afraid.
next time iīll check twice before presenting my
wannabe scientific
discoveries to the public

well the idea is not exactly mine since similar things
have been done
for mdma in berlin in the 90’s and the formulas and
theory are
downloadable, unfortunately only in german language.

what is interesting is that the brain as well as every
molecule and
every plant absorb and radiate waves, and different
frequencies both in
pitch and beat can be related to different states of
mind. special
frequencies are used in sound bowl therapies and i
heard of a clinic
where they use enormous gongs for drug-therapy. in
classical
east-indian music and maybe also in other indigenous
music there are
also numerous relationships between frequencies and
earth rotation, sun
etc. the use of 440Hz for ‘a’ as basic pitch it
totally arbitrary and
doesn’t make much sense.
any audible frequency can be translated into color,
and i wonder how
smells relate to it. i obtained some aromatherapy oils
– thanks julie
– and its fun to experiment with them.

http://www.musictherapyworld.de/modules/mmmagazine/showarticle.php?articletoshow=63&language=en

the problem with music is that a combination of a few
frequencies
itself is not that exciting, since sounds get their
character and
beauty usually by the way the formants behave over
time.

has there ever been an NMR-spectrum of ibogaine been
made? marko, do
you have data or text files for your spectrum-jpgs?

this is an approximative sonification of the infrared
spectrum of the
ibogaine molecule between 4000 and 700 cm^-1 taken out
of markos jpg.
the 20 peak values were transposed into the audible
range and played
back as sine waves with propositional amplitudes.
since the octavation
is arbitrary i send you different samples.

is there someone out there who knows about theoretical
chemistry and
about how to run academic software like turbomole?

you could be the very first person in the universe to
calculate the
exact idealized spectral data of the
ibogaine-molecule! wouldn’t that
be something? if you cannot do that, maybe you know
someone who can.
then we would have exact frequencies that could be
translated into
sound and colours.

hey vector
the program is reactor
http://www.download.com/Reaktor/3000-2170_4-10228854.html?tag=lst-0-9
, i plan to try it in csound, http://csounds.com too.

The frequencies are calculated from the six most
prominent ir-peaks
found on a medical webpage. the relative amplitudes
are not very exact
i have to admit. there are a lot of sites on forensic
research that
have interesting info on for example how to identify
the ingredients of
xtcpills by their ir-spectra.
i should use the uv values too, somehow.

ir peaks occur at certain wavelength. the frequency is
calculated by
dividing lightspeed trough wavelength, then divided by
2^n which is an
octavation to get it into the audible spectrum. the
same principle is
used in the HClsongs using 56 peaks where other
musical parameters are
calculated like this, too.

hope to come up with more complex and %even% closer
sonic
approximations.

cheers ekki

Am 09.03.2005 um 03:03 schrieb jon:

preliminary spectral ibotronic songs:
http://www.ekkijdfg.de/IBOHClsound.html

ekki,

thanks very much for the samples =)

i made a couple songs out of em too…

and

Jon F.

Ekki and Jon,
I truly enjoyed your pieces.  Ekki, I like the fact
that portions of the Ibo samples sound like a digital
gamelan type of instrument, especially Rendrefou(sorry
if I misspelled this) and Nice and Slow.  I love the
idea of the signification of the Ibogaine molecule, it
is truly ingenious.  Nice and Slow was particularly
hypnotic.

If you are at all interested, there are several
sound bytes of my Ibo pieces online.  They are only
segments of the piece, but they will give you an idea
of what I am doing.  Check them out at your leisure:

http://www.ibogatherapy.org/SoundBytes/default.aspx

Regards,
Andrea

Now getting into mathematical mystery:). the excerpt
has some mistakes
i think. if we invert the number of seconds a year has
(about
3600*24*365.25) and multiply with 2^74 we get 136,10
Hz which is c#d as
you wrote and bluegreen but not 366 as it says in the
book. (194,18
which is half of 388,36 Hz would be a day)  how do
they com up with
366?
i know some people find the number 72 interesting
but iīm not sure
why. i found its 2/3 of 108 which is a magical number
in india,
representig 1vishnu, 0brahma, 8shiva or the three
states of spiritual
experience i.e. oneness/unity, emptiness and
multiplicity/infinity(8
when lying down), also 1^1*2^2*3^3 is 108 and so on.
i wonder what Archimedes Plutonium would say about
this 😉
cheers ekki

Am 09.03.2005 um 16:26 schrieb Preston Peet:

i wonder if this could be done for the humming
noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.<

maybe u sing a didgeridoo?
I just read that their note for the Earth, the one
they play to
praise
the Earth/earth itself, they play one tuned to a
note that is just
over c#d, which apparently is, amazingly enough
considering they must
have come up with it scores of thousands of years
ago. This is what
the authors of “Civilization One” have to say on the
subject
(authored
by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler) in the
Conclusions to the
chapter titled Music and Light:

——

Conclusions:

We found that the Megalithic numbers produced
circles that combined
the mathematical ratios known pi and phi. Both and
irrational numbers
yet they produced resuilts that are so close to
being perect to be
negligible. In our investigation we found that an
American PhD
student
had discovered the existence of phi in [Alexander]
Thom’s data back
in
the early 19702- a fact confirmed by the great man
himself when he
described the finding as ‘magical.’

The all-important numbers 366 and 360 are curiously
linked by a
combination of pi and phi because 360 divided by 5
gives a result of
72 and 366 divided by pi x phi also gives the result
of 72. This
suggests that the relationship between the two
Megalithic numbers has
a fundamental resonance with these two very special
rations.

When we turned to the subject of music we found that
Megalithic
mathematics produces its own structure. Sound is
normally measured in
cycles per modern second, known as hertz. (Hz),  but
we considered
using cycles per Megalithic Second, which we called
Thoms (Th). A
frequency of 366 Th is the same as 366 Hz, which
places our
Megalithic
note just slightly above C sharp in modern concern
tuning. This is
effectively the ‘found of the Earth turning’ because
the planet
rotates at a rate of one Megalithic Yard per beat at
the equator.

We found the indigenous Australians consider a
didgeridoo with a note
equal to 366 Th capable of creating sacred Earth
music. Further
investigation of other indigenous music also
revealed Megalithic
rhythm and pitch correspondences. It appears that
there is an
instinctive relationship between the rotating mass
of the planet and
human music. It may indeed have been the
‘involuntary’ sense that
the
mystic and mathematician Pythagoras came to call
‘the harmony of the
spheres.’

When we looked at human sight we found that the
visible part of the
electromagnetic spectrum forms an octave rather like
music. What is
more, if we move exactly 40 octaves up the frequency
scale from a
note
of 366 TH we got to blue light. While nearly all
scientists believe
that light and sound and not connected, we
tentatively feel that
there
might be a resonance between the two that is picked
up by human
perception.
—-

Personally, if there’s anything I’ve ever taken that
put me in touch
with what I might consider an Earth spirit realm of
some kind, I’d
have to say it was ibogaine (and mushrooms and
mescaline too- but
ibogaine really, really put me into a state of utter
weirdness full
of
what I can only describes as many other places right
here in my room
and head but not. Earth spirit realms, to get all
mumbo-jumbo
sounding.
The ibogaine root grows in earth, of the Earth
itself, and so I tend
to subscribe to the personal notion that substances
like ibogaine,
mushrooms, peyote, and all the other plant-based
trippifiers really
could be the link, the key to allow us
communications with the Earth
it/her/himself, the key that unlocks our minds to
the language of the
planet we live on- and those who outlaw those
substances are
embodiments of the literal dark force, the black
evil destructive
side
of things, the ones who will pave over the Earth and
cut us off from
all those modes of communication allowing us to
actually commune
directly with the spirits of the planet and other
spaces too all
around us.
Wow, I sound stoned, and I’m not….really all
that stoned. It’s
all residuals,,,that’s it, that’s the ticket.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for
enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation
Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to
Ancient
Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out
Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

thanks for your mix which i enjoyed quite a lot.
Ekki

.

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] junk and contemporary mass civilization
Date: March 19, 2005 at 6:18:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what follows contains some theory stuff, you have been warned

Am 19.03.2005 um 22:46 schrieb Chris Hunter:

Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be nothing more than a capalist wet deam.

i took some notes this week that seem to correlate:

trends of contemporary mass civilization(adorno/horkheimer: dialectics of enlightenment(LA 1944)):
1- the growth of instrumental rationality (for profit margins/power) to the detriment of substantial/critical rationality
2- the subjugation of the individual and of nature to the dictates of (global) capital
3- the invasion of personal life by dehumanized structures of control
4- the proliferation of large-scale socially induced psychological pathology in the form of authoritarianism, police power and other variants on fascism
->?cultural effects of these tendencies in the spheres of the power/knowledge nexus, culture industries and language
->?contextualization within a global anthropological perspective on human consciousness

this results in, for example:
-exploitation and sellout of myths (like santa claus-coca cola), which also ends modernist and structuralist belief in them (in the history of literary criticism)
-the junky as parody of the ideal consumer mirroring over-production and doubling greed and self-destruction. heroin as parody of the ideal product.
-the rise of psychiatry and the “therapeutic state” (see thomas szasz)
-prohibition as an attempt to regain control over unmanagable (and unproductive in a way) subcultures
-the war against junkies as a way to canalize self-hate of capitalist society (again junky as mirror)
-power/profit/knowledge: withholding ibogaine as an effective way to change drug habits and gain insights
-jazzing up children with sugar and coffein and then calming them down with ritalin (see 1)
and so on

i just scribbles these points down and maybe its not precise and there are many more. they already represent opinions but i don´t try to impose any (yet;)) but am rather curious if and what comments there will be.

what i like about “dialectics of enlightenment” is that, while giving an appealing analysis that served as a starting point for post-modern theory, it was written too early to fall into the poststructuralist vertigo of underdetermined concepts and undecidable ambiguities which makes effective resistance (in theory) impossible.

cheers ekki

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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 19, 2005 at 4:46:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Kiersten

Santa the shaman looks good to me Kiersten, but why have we come to this point where things of wonder are concsealed in greed and power? have you got a website handy re santa’s original story – I was about to boycot the whole thing. every holiday appears to be nothing more than a capalist wet deam.

what are your thoughts on ibogaine?

Much Love

Chris

From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:15:30 -0800

Santa Claus is a Saami [Lapplander] shaman who has a message of  abundance and transcendence for us–but Coca Cola stole his identity in  the 1920s……there is power and truth even in the sold out stories  they tell us. penetrate to the core, and be free.

On Mar 17, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Chris Hunter wrote:

howdy M

I liketo follow that idea of evolution, maybe Ibogaine is another step  but instead of the big bang style awakening its more like a fine  tuning of an already well developed spirit and soul. The thing that  gets in the way is as you say negativity.

I think that something on this planet is growing from our negativity –  this is maybe why the media and governments keep bleding our hearts  and minds with such imagery of darckness and misery.

I don’t understand how we got to this point is our development to do  nothing but soak ourselves in greed and power. I know sod all about  this planet and little more about myslef, because I’ve been playing  the game thats sold to us as Santa Claus is sold to us from childhood.

Its time to start making a new game I think and all it takes are  ‘thoughts’ because nothing is what it is without a firstly being one  thought shared and felt be the people of this planet.

Good news is all around us but we fail to see it every day becasue we  are blinkered by the powers of government the ultimate manipulators.

Look to the earth and feel the only real power – nature, love and light

Good thoughts
Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get  a habit?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:16:49 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!   http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Date: March 17, 2005 6:16:49 AM PST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get  a habit?
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Chris

I wouldnt be suprised if sacred substances did spark the evolution on  this planet.  Take Eboga for example…lets say millions of years ago  a chimp stumbled on eboga by accident and ingested it……No matter  wha his brain capacity he would get in tuned with the whole  universe…maybe he wouldnt undesrtand anything aat first but with  time his counciousnes would expand and begin to evolve……i agree  with you about the whole issue of legal/illegal drugs–i mean why the  fuck is alchohol leagal and causes more deaths than heroin/coke etc  combined and is extremly addictive–that just makes no sense –i think  its a big political game–a big reason there is so much drugs is  because alot of what is confiscated goes right back on the  street,etc….yes brother unity is everything!!!!!!!!without it we are  lost…..if we as a society dont realize we are all one we will perish  in dispondency….without love there is hate and with hate the  negative nergy not only will have imense impact on this planet but in  all this beautifull universe……ONe love

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter”  <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use  Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:25:32  +0000 Hi Mat Its a shame when folk milk the system and that happens a  lot in the UK to. Methadone is another addiction but on the scale of  things its safer than H and much easier to control. I guess it depends  on what the individual wants to do, many people seem to need some sort  of drug in their systems for a million reasons. What about  legalisation?? Drugs have been with us since our perception of time  began, in fact some would argue that certain drugs actually sparked  the evolution of human consciouness. I don’t see how it helps to have  drugs classified as legal and illegal – it seems to give many people  the green light to abuse themselves with some false perception that  maybe alcohol is safe and Heroin is dangerous?? this sort of system  also allows many others to kill themselves with dirty drugs,  equipmment, social stigma and criminal justice systems becasue they  chose to use somethng like Heroin. Is it not about time that we as a  race acknowledgee that we do take drugs and always will take drugs and  start to look at how we can enhance our perception, tune our spirits  and help those who take it too far with as much support as possible.  Obvioulsy we would need to buy into a new way of thinking and tune out  of the negative false perception that governments use to bleed us all  dry. Unity is all there really is – we’ve just been detuned from it.  Just a few thoughts Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski”  <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To:  ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use  Methadone before you >get a habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:35:49  -0500 >  _________________________________________________________________ Want  to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >>  /]=——————————————————————– -=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands:  http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=——————————————————————– -=[/

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Kiersten Leigh Johnson, M.A.

Department of Rhetoric
Program in Film Studies
7408 Dwinelle Hall #2670
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-2670

Mobile phone: 510.508.9597
TeleFAX: 510.642.8881

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Date: March 19, 2005 at 1:11:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick scribbled in his usual delued and completely out of touch with any sort of reality connected to my own life anyway

Well, I figure saying this stuff is just a way for Preston and others to
keep us out. “You haven’t been a heroin addict so I don’t have to listen to
what you have to say.” Routine shit the mind does when it doesn’t want to
hear something -<

I almost let you get my goat here Nick, but then realized yet again, you are so “not in my club” that you aren’t worth my bother any more.
;-))
That said, I will allow myself one second or two to say you’ve completely ignored every single thing I’ve ever written or said apparently if that’s really what you think of me Nick, but that’s ok with me. I could care less any more about you or your opinion (except that once again, I’ve bothered to reply, so I obviously don’t completely don’t care, just almost completely). You’ve certainly not gotten a single thing right about me or the way I view life or even you apparently, but again, that’s ok with me. You’re … (short useless statement about my feelings about you snipped here.)
So, Have a life Nick and I Hope it’s a happy one for you, but you bore the hell out of me, specially answering emails that are nearly three weeks old now.
For those who’ve been writing about getting clean or clear using ibogaine lately (I did see some messages come through here in the last week or two related to that, no?), more power to you all, and I hope everything is going well for you all. Randy, I hope you’re still scaring the straight folk with your new you, and to the rest of you, have a great day too.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc

—–Original Message—–
From: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Sent: 26 February 2005 18:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc

Peter,

First off thanks for spending your time on the list and sharing
your ideas.
I agree with much of what you say in regards to drug use,
prohibition, and
society’s demonization of drug users being harmful. Any man who can make
Dana scream, I respect.

The funny thing is you guys have a little bit in common. I have a feeling
neither of you are wrong much. You both see things in black and
white. Peter
has the advantage of having helped create some of the most amazingly
beneficial drug policy in existence, being smarter and not crazy. With
Peter, there is that old saying ‘too smart for your own pants.’
Dana wrote
his book about the cure for addiction. and runs ‘cures-not-wars.’
Cure this,
cure that.

Peter, you felt free to advise Preston on V’s difficulty with the law for
serving liquor to a minor? You know the laws of the NY state alcohol and
beverage commission? Wow.

Perhaps you need to paint your argument in such broad strokes in order to
raise the discussion and get people to think outside of the constructed
norms.

Just for a minute, I would love for you to consider some of your
positions.
Never wrong? Tapering off and going cold turkey is the best way
to stop? It
works for some but not all. Saying it’s the best way is no
different than a
twelve stepper or an ibo person saying their way is the best way. Finding
reliable data on the efficacy of different treatment modalities
is close to
impossible. What’s wrong with a drug user having options in
helping to quit?
Ibo helps some. Cold turkey works for some. Stanton Peele and you are
probably right in that highest efficacy in stopping use is for those who
just plain stop, outgrow it. What about those who can’t stop no
matter how
much they want to? Rarely does someone try ibo as a the first option. Why
can’t you at least acknowledge that some people have been helped by ibo?

Drug use is often times a reaction to underlying pain, for some ibo helps
deal with that underlying pain and correct the brain chemistry in
such a way
that the need for use is diminished. Why not use it in conjunction with
cognitive treatments and behavior change?

For years I’ve struggled with the disease concept of addiction. I
generally
don’t like it, but what if some of it is true? What if there is some
something to what neurologists say with their fancy scans?

Science has never been close to addiction work, yet there is some good
science with ibo. As much as we share with them as a species, rats don’t
lie. The tests with rats had amazing results. The analogue 18-mc works
excellent in rats and does not appear to have the psychedelic properties.

There might be truth that there is a placebo effect with ibo and
specifically with people having visionary experiences showing
them the way.
That is not what gives ibo it’s anti-addictive properties. I think people
overstate the psychedelic part of ibo. People think they are
related because
they happen at the same time. But hey, if it helps. The trip is
all over the
place. It is a harsh time. People have been looking for god in a
plant for a
long time. Just give me that old time religion. no new time affliction.

Preston suggested that you become hooked, which I think is a
stupid idea in
many ways. First off Preston, it’s not cool to get someone hooked
on dope.
More importantly, if someone like Nick or Peter hasn’t become an
addict yet,
then forget it. It would be forced and not representative of most
addicts.
Most people who take dope hate it and never want to take it again, others
for the first time feel normal. Some like it, some don’t.

Well, I figure saying this stuff is just a way for Preston and others to
keep us out. “You haven’t been a heroin addict so I don’t have to listen to
what you have to say.” Routine shit the mind does when it doesn’t want to
hear something – find an excuse to dismiss it and fence it off somewhere out
of the way. But, guys, we just wanna stop a little suffering, that my intent
anyway. If it’s tough medicine then it’s tough medicine, but I do care.

Nick

Why do some people become addicted and others not? It would suggest some
brain chemistry at work.

I’ve noticed that many long term drug users use because it makes
them feel
normal, it’s a way of dealing. Many have ADD. Many suffered
childhood abuse.
If you where fucked (over) as a kid, the brain didn’t form right.
Drugs make
it feel right. Years of drug use does effect your dopamine
levels. Stopping
makes it really bad. No fun. I tried many times to stop before ibo, never
with any lasting success. Ibo did help me. Ibo did change my
neuro chemistry
in such a way that I felt “normal.” What’s so fucking wrong with that?

If you want to talk about a cult, go to an AA meeting sometime in
America.
Here we have very little in choice in treatment.

Some drug users do grow out of use, some don’t. OK you’ve made up
your mind
to stop. What if tapering off does not work, yet you still want to stop?
What’s wrong with a drug user having a few options in stopping?
Choice is an
awesome thing.

Some things you wrote I wanted to comment on:
“Ibo can not dissociate itself from the social context in which it has
created its usefulness: prohibition.

For me it is just another ‘miracle’ compound within prohibition,
and within
a theoretical NIDA govererend dominance of pharmacological
understanding of
intense drug use.”

You are not impressed with long history of miracle cures? Morphine for
alcoholism, heroin for morphine addiction don’t impress you?

Ibo has been around longer than prohibition as has harmful drug
use. It is
not only prohibition which causes some drug use to be harmful.
Drugs are not
evil, it’s some people’s use patterns that can be harmful. If ibo were
around in the US before the opiate prohibition, I’m sure some
people would
have benefited then.

The African Nganga’s have been using ibo for a long time. Drug
abuse is one
of the conditions they treat. It’s a poor country with few hospitals. The
‘witch doctors’ use ibo and a plethora of other plants to treat sickness.
Even Schweitzer had a toleration if not a slight respect for the witch
doctors

It’s not a miracle compound, it’s a tool. NIDA didn’t like it, remember?
18-mc either. What’s wrong with wanting to fix or heel ones mind? What’s
wrong with having a few tools at the disposal of a drug user wishing to
stop? Slamming your hand with a hammer can be a learning
experience, so can
ibo be a learning experience.

As far as cultural tourism: What? Your favorite tanning spot in the Greek
isles get spoiled? A bunched of pasty Northerners looking for sunshine
ruined it all? The great city of Amsterdam, home of Rembrandt and
the Dutch
East Indies Co having turned into the Tijuana of Europe upsets you?

What are the options? The cat is out of the bag as far as
globalization. In
Gabon there was recently a National Park system created which is (as a %)
the second largest in the world. If tourists do not go, it will not stay
protected. A poor country will sell it’s resources. The oil
companies, the
Chinese searching for wood are better than a few people interested in
studying local traditions? Poor countries need capital, as sad as
it is. I’m
less of an asshole than the oil companies and spread money out more
equitably.

There is a long history of Europeans and Americans taking from Gabon and
Africa and not giving back. Slaves, rubber, diamonds, oil, iboga.
Why not go
and spend money there on local traditions, helping feed some people? How
many of the people making money off of ibo are giving any back?

If you want to stop the destruction of the world, stop using oil
for heat,
electricity, any fosil fuels for transportation, pay no taxes,
make your own
clothes and grow your own food. Tough to do.

What I learned in Gabon was not so much from the iboga as the people and
watching the society at work. Society’s based on village model
can teach us.
Seeing how another culture deals with sickness was fascinating.
They do not
believe in microbes, that sickness is partly a result of trouble
with social
relations. What is also interesting is that they would not use what they
consider a sacred root for a detox. The would make you clean up
first, then
do it.

I wish ibogaine, 18-mc and nor-ibogaine were available for
addicts the world
over and for people wanting a spiritual experience to go Gabon.

A question for you: do you think there is a Darwinian reason for
drug use?
Why do some humans like to get fucked up?

So, what’s your story? How did you become the semiotic drug
expert who hates
drug experts?

Thanks for the work you have done with drug use.

Take care,
Steve. Ibo clan member #341268.

Sara: Go for fucks sake.

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ritalin Kills
Date: March 19, 2005 at 9:17:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am reproducing this because some kids are taken away from their parents if parents won’t let schools give them ritalin–

http://www.ritalindeath.com/
Death From Ritalin
The Truth Behind ADHD
www.RitalinDeath.com
You can visit our ADHD message Board at:
http://www.ritalindeath.com/board/?topic=topic1

I am here to warn parents of the risks involved in giving children
psychotropic medications used to treat ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity
Disorder). These behaviors are listed in the DSM-IV Diagnostic Criteria for
ADHD.

Our fourteen-Year-old Son Matthew died on March 21, 2000. The cause was
determined to be from the long-term (age 7-14) using of Methylphenidate a
medication commonly known as Ritalin.

The Certificate of Death under due to, (or because of) reads Death caused
from Long Term Use of Methylphenidate, (Ritalin). According to Dr. Ljuba
Dragovic, The chief pathologist in Oakland County Michigan, upon autopsy,
Matthew’s heart showed clear signs of small vessel damage, the type caused
by stimulant drugs like amphetamines.

The medical examiners told me that a full-grown man’s heart weighs about 350
grams and that Matthew’s heart weight was about 402 grams.

Matthew did not have a preexisting heart disease or defect that we knew of.
We, his parents never ignored his medical needs. The medical examiner said
this type of heart damage is not easy to detect with the standard test
necessary for prescription refills.

While visiting the doctor with the school’s diagnosis and the recommendation
for Ritalin, he seemed very frustrated and asked us to let the school know,
“I am not a pharmacy.” This leads me to believe that we were not the first
parents sent to this doctor, with the schools diagnosis and recommendation
for Ritalin.

No one ever informed us of other crucial tests (echo-cardiogram) that we
could have had done that would have discovered the enlargement of the heart
muscle, caused from scare tissue which these types of drugs cause. The
standard test performed consists of blood work, listening to the heart,
questions about school behaviors, sleeping and eating habits.

It all started for Matthew in the first grade the school social worker in
Berkley, Michigan kept calling us in for meetings. One particular morning
before an IEP meeting, the school social worker Monica, my wife and I, were
waiting on the others to arrive.

Monica made us feel very threatened when she said that if we wouldn’t
consider getting Matt on Ritalin for their evaluation of Attention Deficit
Hyperactivity Disorder, that Social Services (Child Protective Services)
could charge us for neglecting his educational and emotional needs. My wife
and I were scared of the possibility of losing our children, if we did not
comply.

I believe that some school teachers like having children medicated because,
it makes frustrated students that are having a difficult time learning and
understanding, easier to manage, regardless of the physical and
psychological risks this practice poses to children.

Not all families can afford hundreds of dollars for a drug free, private
evaluation, so they will not be cornered into medicating their child. I am
hoping that Republicans and Democrats will work together and fight this
horrific war against the forced drugging of our children.

Medical diagnosis should remain outside the realm of education and stay
there. Pressure to seek specific medical treatment is not the job of the
school system.

We did not want Matthew on any medications, even though the school social
worker or the doctor never informed us about the dangers of Ritalin and
other stimulant medications used for ADD and ADHD. We just didn’t feel good
about putting our son on drugs and we made it very clear to school
officials.

“Informed Consent”, which states in part “A person’s agreement to allow
something to happen [such as surgery] that is based on a full disclosure of
the facts needed to make the decision intelligently; i.e. knowledge of risks
involved, alternatives etc” and “the probable risks against the probable
benefits.”

The violation of parent’s rights is when they are not told of the
unscientific nature of so-called disorders such as ADHD or the risks of the
treatments involving (drugs) and they certainly are not told of alternatives
to their child’s behavior such as undiagnosed allergies or food
sensitivities, which could manifest with the symptoms of what psychiatry
calls ADHD.

If we weren’t pressured by the school system, Matt would still be alive
today. I cannot go back and change things for us at this point. However, I
hope to God my story and information will reach the hearts and minds, of
many families, so they can make an educated decision with more than a little
selective information, if any, paid for by psychology and drug companies.

I have created a website in hopes that parents will learn the health risks
involved in using psychotropic medications on growing children.

I hope you will be spared all the suffering and heartbreak this whole ADHD
issue has caused our family and many others.

Please do not be intimidated by family, school staff, doctors, or anyone
into medicating your child for ADHD or ADD. These mental illnesses are
scientifically unfounded with no scientific validity what so ever. The
dopamine theory is nothing more than wishful thinking on the part of
psychiatry and the pharmaceutical industry.

I truly believe this must have been my son’s purpose, to save the health and
lives of many others.

How old will people live after taking these types of drugs as a child? Every
time I hear about a child or young adult that has died from heart failure, I
always wonder if they were ever on a psychotropic medication used for ADHD
or depression.

If I would have known about all the children that have died from these
psychiatric medications, I would have never given Matt the first pill.

Did you know that children that are diagnosed as having ADHD or ADD and take
medication, the school labels them as learning disabled, and the schools
receives additional state and federal funding per-child, per-semester.

I wonder if that is one of the reasons why school administrators are so
adamant about medication, and the other would be to control their behavior,
in their drug free school zone.

One of the hardest things for me to deal with is the fact that, Matthew
never wanted his medication.

How many more children will have to die before someone puts a stop to the
biggest health care fraud ever? How many times will school psychology and
drug companies get away with this?

In 1998 at the National Institutes of Health Consensus Conference on ADHD
the NIH issued the following statement regarding ADHD:

“We do not have an independent, valid test for ADHD, and there is no data to
indicate that ADHD is due to a brain malfunction.”

Children, do not need to be made into little robots with medication. I feel
that good parenting, structure, diets, and teaching methods can make all the
difference in the world. Different children develop in different ways; you
cannot put children all into one box.

Did you know that the ADHD diagnosis checklist of behaviors is almost the
same as the list of behaviors for gifted children (visit The National
Foundation for Gifted and Creative Children at http://www.nfgcc.org

The DEA has classified Ritalin as a schedule two drug, comparable to
Cocaine. Ritalin is also one of the top ten abused prescription drugs on the
streets today.

From the research that I have done when these types of drugs are used all
the veins and arteries constrict and get very small which makes it hard for
the heart to pump blood throughout the body. The extra force it takes to
circulate blood causes damage to the heart.

There are many other drugs that are given to children for ADHD with
different names; Adderall, Concreta, Metadate, Ritalin, the list goes on and
on, most if not all are stimulant drugs, amphetamines-speed”

We are coming to a point in our history where children have been taking
these drugs for some time. Now the truth is starting to come out.

Between the years of 1990-2000 over 569 children were hospitalized, 38 of
them were life threatening hospitalizations, and 186 died from these drugs.
Our children are being used as guinea pigs. Death is a very sad why for
parents to learn the long-term side effects.

Now that history has revealed the dangers and deaths of so many children
caused from psychostimulant drugs used for ADD, attention deficit disorder
and ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder Eli Lilly and Company has
developed a drug known as Strattera.

Eli Lilly and Company is cramming the idea of adult ADD into the minds of
normal American people with their television advertisements.

In a round about way Eli Lilly and Company is asking people to ask their
doctor about getting a prescription for Strattera.

Is it because they care about you or is because they want your money?

Eli Lilly and Company is a drug maker; it’s your money they are after.

Now we have a drug maker not only targeting children but adults as well.

ADD and ADHD are bogus disorders without a scientific leg to stand on.

If ADD and ADHD was a real medical issue you could go to the doctor and get
a blood test to determine its validity.

Even though there has been no long term research done on Strattera the FDA
has approved it, therefore when people start dying from Strattera I feel the
FDA should be held accountable.

In my state MI, the first and only, the law states that if the drug has been
approved by the FDA and you die from the drug, the drug company is not held
accountable.

A coalition needs to be formed the people against the FDA.

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc
Date: March 19, 2005 at 8:50:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Steven Anker [mailto:stevenanker@hotmail.com]
Sent: 26 February 2005 18:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Subject: [Ibogaine] Thoughts for pc

Peter,

First off thanks for spending your time on the list and sharing
your ideas.
I agree with much of what you say in regards to drug use,
prohibition, and
society’s demonization of drug users being harmful. Any man who can make
Dana scream, I respect.

The funny thing is you guys have a little bit in common. I have a feeling
neither of you are wrong much. You both see things in black and
white. Peter
has the advantage of having helped create some of the most amazingly
beneficial drug policy in existence, being smarter and not crazy. With
Peter, there is that old saying ‘too smart for your own pants.’
Dana wrote
his book about the cure for addiction… and runs ‘cures-not-wars.’
Cure this,
cure that.

Peter, you felt free to advise Preston on V’s difficulty with the law for
serving liquor to a minor? You know the laws of the NY state alcohol and
beverage commission? Wow.

Perhaps you need to paint your argument in such broad strokes in order to
raise the discussion and get people to think outside of the constructed
norms.

Just for a minute, I would love for you to consider some of your
positions.
Never wrong? Tapering off and going cold turkey is the best way
to stop? It
works for some but not all. Saying it’s the best way is no
different than a
twelve stepper or an ibo person saying their way is the best way. Finding
reliable data on the efficacy of different treatment modalities
is close to
impossible. What’s wrong with a drug user having options in
helping to quit?
Ibo helps some. Cold turkey works for some. Stanton Peele and you are
probably right in that highest efficacy in stopping use is for those who
just plain stop, outgrow it. What about those who can’t stop no
matter how
much they want to? Rarely does someone try ibo as a the first option. Why
can’t you at least acknowledge that some people have been helped by ibo?

Drug use is often times a reaction to underlying pain, for some ibo helps
deal with that underlying pain and correct the brain chemistry in
such a way
that the need for use is diminished. Why not use it in conjunction with
cognitive treatments and behavior change?

For years I’ve struggled with the disease concept of addiction. I
generally
don’t like it, but what if some of it is true? What if there is some
something to what neurologists say with their fancy scans?

Science has never been close to addiction work, yet there is some good
science with ibo. As much as we share with them as a species, rats don’t
lie. The tests with rats had amazing results. The analogue 18-mc works
excellent in rats and does not appear to have the psychedelic properties.

There might be truth that there is a placebo effect with ibo and
specifically with people having visionary experiences showing
them the way.
That is not what gives ibo it’s anti-addictive properties. I think people
overstate the psychedelic part of ibo. People think they are
related because
they happen at the same time. But hey, if it helps… The trip is
all over the
place. It is a harsh time. People have been looking for god in a
plant for a
long time. Just give me that old time religion… no new time affliction.

Preston suggested that you become hooked, which I think is a
stupid idea in
many ways. First off Preston, it’s not cool to get someone hooked
on dope.
More importantly, if someone like Nick or Peter hasn’t become an
addict yet,
then forget it. It would be forced and not representative of most
addicts.
Most people who take dope hate it and never want to take it again, others
for the first time feel normal. Some like it, some don’t.

Well, I figure saying this stuff is just a way for Preston and others to
keep us out. “You haven’t been a heroin addict so I don’t have to listen to
what you have to say.” Routine shit the mind does when it doesn’t want to
hear something – find an excuse to dismiss it and fence it off somewhere out
of the way. But, guys, we just wanna stop a little suffering, that my intent
anyway. If it’s tough medicine then it’s tough medicine, but I do care.

Nick

Why do some people become addicted and others not? It would suggest some
brain chemistry at work.

I’ve noticed that many long term drug users use because it makes
them feel
normal, it’s a way of dealing. Many have ADD. Many suffered
childhood abuse.
If you where fucked (over) as a kid, the brain didn’t form right.
Drugs make
it feel right. Years of drug use does effect your dopamine
levels. Stopping
makes it really bad. No fun. I tried many times to stop before ibo, never
with any lasting success. Ibo did help me. Ibo did change my
neuro chemistry
in such a way that I felt “normal.” What’s so fucking wrong with that?

If you want to talk about a cult, go to an AA meeting sometime in
America.
Here we have very little in choice in treatment.

Some drug users do grow out of use, some don’t. OK you’ve made up
your mind
to stop. What if tapering off does not work, yet you still want to stop?
What’s wrong with a drug user having a few options in stopping?
Choice is an
awesome thing.

Some things you wrote I wanted to comment on:
“Ibo can not dissociate itself from the social context in which it has
created its usefulness: prohibition.

For me it is just another ‘miracle’ compound within prohibition,
and within
a theoretical NIDA govererend dominance of pharmacological
understanding of
intense drug use.”

You are not impressed with long history of miracle cures? Morphine for
alcoholism, heroin for morphine addiction don’t impress you?

Ibo has been around longer than prohibition as has harmful drug
use. It is
not only prohibition which causes some drug use to be harmful.
Drugs are not
evil, it’s some people’s use patterns that can be harmful. If ibo were
around in the US before the opiate prohibition, I’m sure some
people would
have benefited then.

The African Nganga’s have been using ibo for a long time. Drug
abuse is one
of the conditions they treat. It’s a poor country with few hospitals. The
‘witch doctors’ use ibo and a plethora of other plants to treat sickness.
Even Schweitzer had a toleration if not a slight respect for the witch
doctors

It’s not a miracle compound, it’s a tool. NIDA didn’t like it, remember?
18-mc either. What’s wrong with wanting to fix or heel ones mind? What’s
wrong with having a few tools at the disposal of a drug user wishing to
stop? Slamming your hand with a hammer can be a learning
experience, so can
ibo be a learning experience.

As far as cultural tourism: What? Your favorite tanning spot in the Greek
isles get spoiled? A bunched of pasty Northerners looking for sunshine
ruined it all? The great city of Amsterdam, home of Rembrandt and
the Dutch
East Indies Co having turned into the Tijuana of Europe upsets you?

What are the options? The cat is out of the bag as far as
globalization. In
Gabon there was recently a National Park system created which is (as a %)
the second largest in the world. If tourists do not go, it will not stay
protected. A poor country will sell it’s resources. The oil
companies, the
Chinese searching for wood are better than a few people interested in
studying local traditions? Poor countries need capital, as sad as
it is. I’m
less of an asshole than the oil companies and spread money out more
equitably.

There is a long history of Europeans and Americans taking from Gabon and
Africa and not giving back. Slaves, rubber, diamonds, oil, iboga.
Why not go
and spend money there on local traditions, helping feed some people? How
many of the people making money off of ibo are giving any back?

If you want to stop the destruction of the world, stop using oil
for heat,
electricity, any fosil fuels for transportation, pay no taxes,
make your own
clothes and grow your own food. Tough to do.

What I learned in Gabon was not so much from the iboga as the people and
watching the society at work. Society’s based on village model
can teach us.
Seeing how another culture deals with sickness was fascinating.
They do not
believe in microbes, that sickness is partly a result of trouble
with social
relations. What is also interesting is that they would not use what they
consider a sacred root for a detox. The would make you clean up
first, then
do it.

I wish ibogaine, 18-mc and nor-ibogaine were available for
addicts the world
over and for people wanting a spiritual experience to go Gabon.

A question for you: do you think there is a Darwinian reason for
drug use?
Why do some humans like to get fucked up?

So, what’s your story? How did you become the semiotic drug
expert who hates
drug experts?

Thanks for the work you have done with drug use.

Take care,
Steve. Ibo clan member #341268.

Sara: Go for fucks sake.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Date: March 19, 2005 at 8:31:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: 18 March 2005 20:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List

Well, Nick I had last week one of Peter Cohen’s friend
For a treatment, I don’t think that you got the whole picture…

Hi Sara,

Well, OK, that may well be the case, but I still wanna take him to task a
little. I mean read what he wrote back to me, which I replied to as
well……

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 18 March 2005 19:33
To: nick227@tiscali.co.uk
Cc: informe
Subject: dissing a Substance!!

Dear Nick227, your points are correct. I offer no easy solution , nor
do I have that ambition.
The thing I do is comment on the self made bogus theory the ibo
people offer about ibogaine, and show that their jargon is exactly
the mirror image jargon of the drug warriors  who have taken up the
fight against ‘chemical dependency’ or ;’aDDICTION’,  modern
ghost-evils.
I do not see how the ibo clan could bring the ending of the drug war
irrationality one step closer, absorbed as they are in their whining
about their miseries, and in the idolation of their illicit  saviour.
I engaged in this discussion because I consider those victimised
in/of the drug war my friends-in principle-, and so I say my truth to
them.

Hi Peter,

As I understood it, you ARE offering a solution – that of a radical revision
of the mindset which creates the social categories “addict” and
“non-addict.” Is this the case? If so, then it seems to me that you
obviously do recognize some form of “problem” with the existing conceptual
model that society has for comprehending drug use. You are taking a stand –
you speak publically, you write, you take action. I don’t buy it that you
are purely a theorist, to be truly that you have to not communicate your
theories, certainly not in any meaningful fashion.

Thus, I submit, you are in essence no different from the ibogaine proponent
in that you are attempting to alter what you percieve to be some form of
“wrong” in our society.

However, your position would seem to be that it’s My Way or the Highway,
that you are right and ibogaine is wrong, a position you justify on several
relatively valid grounds, within your own concept. And apparently use this
to batter the ibogaine proponents viz, “absorbed as they are in their
whining about their miseries, and in the idolation of their illicit
saviour.”

What I am saying is that, given that you are ACTIVE in trying alter society,
it has to be valid to consider the practical realities behind the various
strategies proposed – how they might be implemented, what would be useful
first steps, etc. And in this, I’d say that ibogaine is currently some way
ahead of your own initiatives. I could be wrong. For sure, ibogaine does not
fit in within your concept, but do you really have to indulge in such
in-fighting with those who seek a similar goal?

Of course in the back ground plays also that I think choosing for
intense use of any drug is the right of humans, and that the ibo clan
people should fight for that right. At least part of their time. As I
said earlier, I see how difficult that is.But it is not impossible.
The ibo church however makes of the ibo people an irrelevant lot for
drug policy reform, something I’d like to see turned around.

I am not impressed by sorrow in the subjective sense. I think its
bad, very bad, so go do something about it.
In the UK e.g. I know people who fight for the right to use heroin,
and to bring heroin from the local pharmacy closer, and their right
to use it as they wish. Do not think these people have easy lives or
suffer no constraints, but hey, that is the cost of choosing that
life style now, in this culture.I see them speak out at conferences ,
make smart contributions to the debates, and outwit the nitwits.
Fight for your rights! and further do whatever you should/want do,
even use ibo as gods own flesh. This would probably inspire/encourage
more ‘lost souls’ than venerating a substance you think I diss.
pc

Well, for sure there are a few people fighting for the right to use heroin
legally. And I support that myself. Yes, it’s a good idea, but, as I pointed
out previously, when you’re using daily a drug which backs up the body’s own
repression system (as heroin does) then it’s kind of hard to make a
meaningful political impact. To put energy out like this, to be effective,
you need to be in your power. Heroin can give you clarity if you’re
overwhelmed with feelings, but it’s really hard to get your hands on your
power with this drug. It doesn’t lend itself to inspiring civil upheaval and
political activism. In fact, more subversive governments have in the past
well recognized that giving annoying activists high access to heroin is
definitely one way of shutting them up, as seen with the traveller scene in
80’s UK.

So, I’d say, on this count too you’re pretty off base. Again just my opinion
and I could be wrong. But I’d say ibogaine offers a lot more potential for a
REAL and ACTUAL shift in the whole drugwar concept than the ideas you
propose.

In addition, you don’t have to categorize all substances the same way, you
can also look at awareness. Heroin represses awareness, it blockades
feeling. Ibogaine raises awareness, it attempts to bring to light that which
one is previously unaware of. You can say that, on the face of it, ibogaine
is just another drug and that it thus offers no real solution to the issue
of how drug use is perceived socially, but understand that it is not so easy
to predict just what happens when a substance of ibogaine’s
awareness-raising potential comes into the wider market. You can’t really
know what level of change this could catalyse. If you did then it would
already have happened.

Nick

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] and also…
Date: March 19, 2005 at 2:14:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

watch the benzos bro.  they’ve got a stinger, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] and also…

Oops premayure send…. I also wnated to send this link to some more interesting music that rachel found
http://www.baka.co.uk/
anyone know anything about this group ? They sound great and  they will be here in NYc soon…Ibonaunt field trip ?
I am back at work finally! 2weeks now.. My body got soft here in the apt recoupping from my ibo experience work is hard but strebgthening…
Still a bit shaky some days about where I am exactly…recovery…i am not sure..opiate free yes…but i now drink beer-one or two almost every day-which is a new phenom for this man…harm reduction absolutley but?? …. a benzo every now and then as well..
I am still seeking something it seems.
Hope ypu all check out the smithsonian site it is truly a treasure trove of great stuff and this Baka is pretty groovy thansk Rachy! Love ya!
Freaking Free
freaking Out
Freaking Jeff

From: jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] and also…
Date: March 19, 2005 at 1:38:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oops premayure send…. I also wnated to send this link to some more interesting music that rachel found
http://www.baka.co.uk/
anyone know anything about this group ? They sound great and  they will be here in NYc soon…Ibonaunt field trip ?
I am back at work finally! 2weeks now.. My body got soft here in the apt recoupping from my ibo experience work is hard but strebgthening…
Still a bit shaky some days about where I am exactly…recovery…i am not sure..opiate free yes…but i now drink beer-one or two almost every day-which is a new phenom for this man…harm reduction absolutley but?? …. a benzo every now and then as well..
I am still seeking something it seems.
Hope ypu all check out the smithsonian site it is truly a treasure trove of great stuff and this Baka is pretty groovy thansk Rachy! Love ya!
Freaking Free
freaking Out
Freaking Jeff

From: jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Smithsonian Global Sound
Date: March 19, 2005 at 1:26:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello all
i just has this passed on to me and thought you all may find it interesting i did a search for Gabon and came up with some great Fang Bwiti stuff.

Smithsonian Center for Folklife and  Cultural Heritage
announces ‘Smithsonian Global Sound ‘

The  Smithsonian Center for Folklife and Cultural
Heritage is
proud to announce  the launch of our highly anticipated
web
site, Smithsonian Global  Sound
(http://www.smithsonianglobalsound.org).

Smithsonian Global  Sound offers digital downloads of
music
and sound from around the world at  a reasonable price.
The
site has a wealth of educational content and  downloads
are
accompanied by extensive liner notes.  Our goal is  to
encourage local musicians and traditions around the
planet  through
international recognition, the payment of royalties,
and support  for
regional archives.

The first track we sold was “Tarab” by Famau,  Harambee
Music
Club from the album Music of the Waswahili of  Lamu,
Kenya,
Vol. 3: Secular Music–an eight and a half minute
track  of
drum, harmonium, and bongo. Some lucky person is
walking
around  right now jamming to that track on their iPod
while reading
the liner  notes and benefitting the musicians of Lamu.
This is what Smithsonian Global  Sound is all about!
We hope you share our excitement and will support  the
site.

Please forward this announcement to anyone and
everyone  you
know, especially to those who would be interested  in
our
subscriptions for educational  institutions.
http://www.smithsonianglobalsound.org

From: “synn stern” <synn1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 18, 2005 at 10:41:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

both heroin & methadone are potentially addicting opiates.the real difference is that heroin lasts about 8hours (and is a black market product) and methadone lasts far, far longer –around 24hours. and as a pharmaceutical product, you know what/how much you are getting; making it that much easier to reduce doses.

your friend should reduce slowly enough that the W.D. is not very uncomfortable, and realize that methadone lasts far longer than heroin (up to 3 days for some folks’ livers) AND often takes a long time to initially be felt. could be 3hours before the first dose “comes on.”

everyone’s detox is different, but adjunct medications, like stuff for the runs & for muscle cramps & the sniffles are recommended. match the medication (assuming it is something they can take, of course) to the presenting symptom: motrin for pain, benedryl for sniffles, etc. and guard against dehydration (which’ll make everything worse, especiallly muscle cramps). lots of water should be drunk, hot baths feel good, and light easy-to-digest stuff should be eaten. bread, toast, rice, etc. and bananas are a wonder-food for detoxing. they’re easy to digest, help tighten up the loose bowel, and the potassium helps fight off muscle cramps.

good luck.

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 00:05:40 -0500

Hi Hannah,
I basically stand by the info that Donna posted when this was previously brought up.  I really really think that 3 days is pretty safe and play it by ear if you need any or very little on the fourth.  Although I was always hesitant to go much past 3 days.  It worked fine for me.  I do however think the doses that Jasen posted were also a lot higher than I would have used however it does have to do with what your habit is at the time as well as your tolerance. Day 4 or 5 epsom soaks or saunas or showers help a lot if there are still residuals.  I personally never had any drama after the initial 3 days.   I will say I did this hundreds of times! Where the expression ends or the actual count starts I have no idea, I do know that there are people who have been able to stay clean once they get over the physical addiction.  I was just not one of them and never had any success until I did the Ibogaine.  I wish you and your friend all the best and hope you are one of the fortunates that can overcome what I could not.
I also believe the whole methedone in your bones thing is not going to happen in a few days and I personally think it’s more a complication of malnutrition along with the drug use. IMO.
Much Love,
Martee

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:23 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?

Hi all,

My friend is intending to detox from Heroin using Methadone short-term.  We’ve done this before but I want to know for safety’s sake how long it takes to become addicted to Methadone?  How many days/weeks can you use it before you become addicted?  I realise you can detox from H using Meth just for 5 days but would still like to know just in case.

Thanks in advance,
Hannah

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Date: March 18, 2005 at 3:39:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, Nick I had last week one of Peter Cohen’s friend
For a treatment, I don’t think that you got the whole picture…

And please Nick if you feel for a change in policies, read & sign

http://action.encod.org/ic3/faces/public/ic3/home/petition?portal:componentI

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Nick Sandberg [mailto:nick227@tiscali.co.uk]
Verzonden: vrijdag 18 maart 2005 19:47
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
CC: cohen.cedro@uva.nl
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List

—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 22 February 2005 22:02
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com; Preston Peet
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List

Preston, your summarizing of my views is quite
right.Dana is not able or willing to read my
stuff,nor understand it, let alone summarizing it.
About the physical side of intense and frequent
drug use, of course there is a biological
component.
But I do not see its relevance.
Thomas Szasz once wrote that the physical aspects
of an erection do not explain falling in love
with a particular woman, or men visiting
prostitutes. There is a lot of biology involved
in sexuality, but what types of sex are
criminalised , what types of bonding society
accepts or not, are totally different matters.
Of course people develop tolerance, or a longing
to repeat the most wanted effects of drugs(
untill they no longer count) but what does this
have to do with societies activity of prohibiting
some drug use behaviours?
I never speak about addiction, or possession, or
bewitching, I consider them all terms from a
primitive pre scientific past, that unfortunately
still lingers on in the perception of many, the
ibo clan included.
pc

Dear Peter,

I find myself a little dismayed that you appear to not have moved so much
your position on ibogaine. Your ARGUMENTS are all well REASONED, your
THINKING clear and it all looks good. But to me it seems that you still
cannot FEEL the reality of the misery of many addicts’ lives. You fit them
into your vision of how the world SHOULD BE, but offer little practical
commentary on how your brave and beautiful vision could actually be
manifested, what is the first step that actually needs to be taken, and how
to do it.

It’s all happening in your mind, man. And this would all be absolutely fine
with me except that you are now using this mental vision of paradise to
actively dis a substance that offers a REAL and PRACTICAL solution to many
people’s miseries. Someone is going to take you by the hand and lead you
through the streets of sorrow and you are going to say that the misery is
only happening because of the prejudicial attitudes of the government and
public, but this is not going to help one fucking person, unless you can
practically manifest a way of changing their attitudes. Can you?

If you would accept that your vision is idealistic, perhaps you could then
take a more lenient stance on ibogaine, something which offers a practical
course of action. It does little to disturb the prejudical attitudes of the
public, granted; it does little to socially re-label the “addict” a natural
human, I agree; but it does practically offer hope to many who have given
up. Is it possible you could at least take a footstep down from your castle
and consider doing this?

Nick

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Date: March 18, 2005 at 1:47:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <cohen.cedro@uva.nl>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Peter Cohen [mailto:cohen.cedro@uva.nl]
Sent: 22 February 2005 22:02
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com; Preston Peet
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List

Preston, your summarizing of my views is quite
right.Dana is not able or willing to read my
stuff,nor understand it, let alone summarizing it.
About the physical side of intense and frequent
drug use, of course there is a biological
component.
But I do not see its relevance.
Thomas Szasz once wrote that the physical aspects
of an erection do not explain falling in love
with a particular woman, or men visiting
prostitutes. There is a lot of biology involved
in sexuality, but what types of sex are
criminalised , what types of bonding society
accepts or not, are totally different matters.
Of course people develop tolerance, or a longing
to repeat the most wanted effects of drugs(
untill they no longer count) but what does this
have to do with societies activity of prohibiting
some drug use behaviours?
I never speak about addiction, or possession, or
bewitching, I consider them all terms from a
primitive pre scientific past, that unfortunately
still lingers on in the perception of many, the
ibo clan included.
pc

Dear Peter,

I find myself a little dismayed that you appear to not have moved so much
your position on ibogaine. Your ARGUMENTS are all well REASONED, your
THINKING clear and it all looks good. But to me it seems that you still
cannot FEEL the reality of the misery of many addicts’ lives. You fit them
into your vision of how the world SHOULD BE, but offer little practical
commentary on how your brave and beautiful vision could actually be
manifested, what is the first step that actually needs to be taken, and how
to do it.

It’s all happening in your mind, man. And this would all be absolutely fine
with me except that you are now using this mental vision of paradise to
actively dis a substance that offers a REAL and PRACTICAL solution to many
people’s miseries. Someone is going to take you by the hand and lead you
through the streets of sorrow and you are going to say that the misery is
only happening because of the prejudicial attitudes of the government and
public, but this is not going to help one fucking person, unless you can
practically manifest a way of changing their attitudes. Can you?

If you would accept that your vision is idealistic, perhaps you could then
take a more lenient stance on ibogaine, something which offers a practical
course of action. It does little to disturb the prejudical attitudes of the
public, granted; it does little to socially re-label the “addict” a natural
human, I agree; but it does practically offer hope to many who have given
up. Is it possible you could at least take a footstep down from your castle
and consider doing this?

Nick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: March 18, 2005 at 10:46:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL.
Well, let’s hope there’s no barfing being done by me on this trip. That would suck, even as lucrative as it may be to have Preston Peet’s barf for sale (ooowww, that’s really gross btw).
Though it’s not the most unusual body waste suggestion I’ve heard in the past 6 months or so- the last, even more unusual one was the one whereby I was informed that were I to pee and save it in the fridge right away after doing ibogaine, I could probably get re-iboed again. I passed on that idea too.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Underground- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..

Preston, just remeber if you use the barf bag to save it, we could sell it on E bay. Preston Peet’s barf bag would have to be worth something.   Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:43:41 -0800
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..

Hi Preston,

about your travels…a few things that have helped me: pack your stuff at a leisurely pace way ahead of time. this way, you know that you have everything you need.

These things might seem kinda girlie, but man they work: wear slip-on shoes–easy for airport security and for slipping off during the flight. bring a pair of soft warm cashmere socks to wear while on the plane. get one of those half-donut neck pillows [best with buckwheat on the inside, the inflatable ones work too, but they are a bit less comfortable tho easier to transport] and douse it with organic lavender oil. bring a soft eye pillow thingie [what are those called? sleep masks?]–these are enormously helpful, because they cut out all that weird light. douse that with lavender, too. if you can, get some noise canceling headphones [Bose has some for a pretty penny–make the product! ion company buy them for you!] for all the fatiguing engine noise. Drink liter after liter after liter of water. Never stop drinking. get some evian spray for your face and spritz yourself every so often. finally, make sure you moisturize your hands and face and lips every so often–this will make you more comfortable and you will be pretty and soft when you arrive. finally, attending to all of this hilariously fussy self-comfort stuff will completely distract you from everything else going on!!
have a great time.
kiersten

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] invitation,
Date: March 18, 2005 at 3:50:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

If really want to experience an Aya. Ceremony, it is very much possible to organize it yourself,
The only thing is are you willing to take responsibilities? , I’m sure that if you are on opiates or other medications you better
Be open about it with the ceremony master  and communicate with him about that . you would not want to make
A ceremony with psyco’s , right?
Don’t give up and you will find a group of people who are already doing it and may except you to take part of their ceremony.

Sara
Van: kiersten johnson [mailto:kiers10@mac.com] 
Verzonden: donderdag 17 maart 2005 20:26
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,

Hello lovelies,

Can anyone point me to a good ayahuasca practitioner in the San Francisco area? I’ve been wanting to do this journey for a long long time, and don’t have the bread at the moment to make it to Brazil…

when I get rich I will start a sponsorship program for ibo/aya journies…
xo
kiersten
On Mar 15, 2005, at 7:21 AM, Sara Glatt wrote:
At my home, Netherlands,

 

You can count on 80- 100 euros , the session is 5 hours, you will need to bering your sleeping bag,

 

 

Sara

 


Van: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 maart 2005 14:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,

 

Hi Sara

 

Hope you are well I would like to experience the ayahusca ceremony where will it be held???? 

love donnaxxxxxxx
If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble.

–Sappho

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] withdrawals
Date: March 18, 2005 at 2:53:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In order to provide real information we need real information.  What was
your
friend using dose/drug before methadone and what has been his dose regimen
of
methadone for the last month?  Is ibogaine an option for your friend?
Howard

VMANN: thanks dude.
i guess he got some methdone now.  ill ask for more specifics, though.
i dont think he would do ibogaine.
vigilius haufniensis

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 18, 2005 at 12:05:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,
I basically stand by the info that Donna posted when this was previously brought up.  I really really think that 3 days is pretty safe and play it by ear if you need any or very little on the fourth.  Although I was always hesitant to go much past 3 days.  It worked fine for me.  I do however think the doses that Jasen posted were also a lot higher than I would have used however it does have to do with what your habit is at the time as well as your tolerance. Day 4 or 5 epsom soaks or saunas or showers help a lot if there are still residuals.  I personally never had any drama after the initial 3 days.   I will say I did this hundreds of times! Where the expression ends or the actual count starts I have no idea, I do know that there are people who have been able to stay clean once they get over the physical addiction.  I was just not one of them and never had any success until I did the Ibogaine.  I wish you and your friend all the best and hope you are one of the fortunates that can overcome what I could not.
I also believe the whole methedone in your bones thing is not going to happen in a few days and I personally think it’s more a complication of malnutrition along with the drug use. IMO.
Much Love,
Martee

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 4:23 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?

Hi all,

My friend is intending to detox from Heroin using Methadone short-term.  We’ve done this before but I want to know for safety’s sake how long it takes to become addicted to Methadone?  How many days/weeks can you use it before you become addicted?  I realise you can detox from H using Meth just for 5 days but would still like to know just in case.

Thanks in advance,
Hannah

From: biscuitboy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: March 17, 2005 at 9:36:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, just remeber if you use the barf bag to save it, we could sell it on E bay. Preston Peet’s barf bag would have to be worth something.   Randy
—–Original Message—–
From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:43:41 -0800
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..

Hi Preston,

about your travels…a few things that have helped me: pack your stuff at a leisurely pace way ahead of time. this way, you know that you have everything you need.

These things might seem kinda girlie, but man they work: wear slip-on shoes–easy for airport security and for slipping off during the flight. bring a pair of soft warm cashmere socks to wear while on the plane. get one of those half-donut neck pillows [best with buckwheat on the inside, the inflatable ones work too, but they are a bit less comfortable tho easier to transport] and douse it with organic lavender oil. bring a soft eye pillow thingie [what are those called? sleep masks?]–these are enormously helpful, because they cut out all that weird light. douse that with lavender, too. if you can, get some noise canceling headphones [Bose has some for a pretty penny–make the production company buy them for you!] for all the fatiguing engine noise. Drink liter after liter after liter of water. Never stop drinking. get some evian spray for your face and spritz yourself every so often. finally, make sure you moisturize your hands and face and lips every so often–this will make you more comfortable and you will be pretty and soft when you arrive. finally, attending to all of this hilariously fussy self-comfort stuff will completely distract you from everything else going on!!
have a great time.
kiersten

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,
Date: March 17, 2005 at 7:44:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yah and someone in Toronto for that matter if anyone knows

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation, Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 11:26:02 -0800 Hello lovelies, Can anyone point me to a good ayahuasca practitioner in the San Francisco area? I’ve been wanting to do this journey for a long long time, and don’t have the bread at the moment to make it to Brazil… when I get rich I will start a sponsorship program for ibo/aya journies… xo kiersten On Mar 15, 2005, at 7:21 AM, Sara Glatt wrote: >At my home, Netherlands, > >  > >You can count on 80- 100 euros , the session is 5 hours, you will >need to bering your sleeping bag, > >  > >  > >Sara > >  > > >Van: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com] >Verzonden: dinsdag 15 maart 2005 14:50 >Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation, > >  > >Hi Sara > >  > >Hope you are well I would like to experience the ayahusca ceremony >where will it be held???? > >love donnaxxxxxxx > If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble. –Sappho

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] withdrawals
Date: March 17, 2005 at 6:02:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In order to provide real information we need real information.  What was your
friend using dose/drug before methadone and what has been his dose regimen of
methadone for the last month?  Is ibogaine an option for your friend?

Howard

In a message dated 3/17/05 1:23:07 PM, thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net writes:

a friend of mine has a bad back.
right now he is going through withdrawals from painkillers.  they put him
on methodone, but he doesnt have enough to make it to the end of the month.
they wont give him more.  any tips on coping?
ill pass it along.

thanks,

vigilius haufniensis

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot: nin – hand that feeds video
Date: March 17, 2005 at 4:34:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://boss.streamos.com/download/interscope/nin/with_teeth/video/nin_the_hand_that_feeds_hi.mov

looks like TR and Jose Canseco have been hanging out at the same bar
together.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] My ibogaine experience
Date: March 17, 2005 at 3:06:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Warmest Regards

Matt

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: March 17, 2005 at 2:43:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

about your travels…a few things that have helped me: pack your stuff at a leisurely pace way ahead of time. this way, you know that you have everything you need.

These things might  seem kinda girlie, but man they work: wear slip-on shoes–easy for airport security and for slipping off during the flight. bring a pair of soft warm cashmere socks to wear while on the plane. get one of those half-donut neck pillows [best with buckwheat on the inside, the inflatable ones work too, but they are a bit less comfortable tho easier to transport] and douse it with organic lavender oil. bring a soft eye pillow thingie [what are those called? sleep masks?]–these are enormously helpful, because they cut out all that weird light. douse that with lavender, too. if you can, get some noise canceling headphones [Bose has some for a pretty penny–make the production company buy them for you!] for all the fatiguing engine noise. Drink liter after liter after liter of water. Never stop drinking. get some evian spray for your face and spritz yourself every so often. finally, make sure you moisturize your hands and face and lips every so often–this will make you more comfortable and you will be pretty and soft when you arrive. finally, attending to all of this hilariously fussy self-comfort stuff will completely distract you from everything else going on!!
have a great time.
kiersten

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,
Date: March 17, 2005 at 2:26:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello lovelies,

Can anyone point me to a good ayahuasca practitioner in the San Francisco area? I’ve been wanting to do this journey for a long long time, and don’t have the bread at the moment to make it to Brazil…

when I get rich I will start a sponsorship program for ibo/aya journies…
xo
kiersten
On Mar 15, 2005, at 7:21 AM, Sara Glatt wrote:

At my home, Netherlands,

 

You can count on 80- 100 euros , the session is 5 hours, you will need to bering your sleeping bag,

 

 

Sara

 

Van: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 maart 2005 14:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,

 

Hi Sara

 

Hope you are well I would like to experience the ayahusca ceremony where will it be held????

love donnaxxxxxxx

If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble.

–Sappho

From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 17, 2005 at 2:15:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Santa Claus is a Saami [Lapplander] shaman who has a message of abundance and transcendence for us–but Coca Cola stole his identity in the 1920s……there is power and truth even in the sold out stories they tell us. penetrate to the core, and be free.

On Mar 17, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Chris Hunter wrote:

howdy M

I liketo follow that idea of evolution, maybe Ibogaine is another step but instead of the big bang style awakening its more like a fine tuning of an already well developed spirit and soul. The thing that gets in the way is as you say negativity.

I think that something on this planet is growing from our negativity – this is maybe why the media and governments keep bleding our hearts and minds with such imagery of darckness and misery.

I don’t understand how we got to this point is our development to do nothing but soak ourselves in greed and power. I know sod all about this planet and little more about myslef, because I’ve been playing the game thats sold to us as Santa Claus is sold to us from childhood.

Its time to start making a new game I think and all it takes are ‘thoughts’ because nothing is what it is without a firstly being one thought shared and felt be the people of this planet.

Good news is all around us but we fail to see it every day becasue we are blinkered by the powers of government the ultimate manipulators.

Look to the earth and feel the only real power – nature, love and light

Good thoughts
Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:16:49 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Date: March 17, 2005 6:16:49 AM PST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Chris

I wouldnt be suprised if sacred substances did spark the evolution on this planet.  Take Eboga for example…lets say millions of years ago a chimp stumbled on eboga by accident and ingested it……No matter wha his brain capacity he would get in tuned with the whole universe…maybe he wouldnt undesrtand anything aat first but with time his counciousnes would expand and begin to evolve……i agree with you about the whole issue of legal/illegal drugs–i mean why the fuck is alchohol leagal and causes more deaths than heroin/coke etc combined and is extremly addictive–that just makes no sense –i think its a big political game–a big reason there is so much drugs is because alot of what is confiscated goes right back on the street,etc….yes brother unity is everything!!!!!!!!without it we are lost…..if we as a society dont realize we are all one we will perish in dispondency….without love there is hate and with hate the negative nergy not only will have imense impact on this planet but in all this beautifull universe……ONe love

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:25:32 +0000 Hi Mat Its a shame when folk milk the system and that happens a lot in the UK to. Methadone is another addiction but on the scale of things its safer than H and much easier to control. I guess it depends on what the individual wants to do, many people seem to need some sort of drug in their systems for a million reasons. What about legalisation?? Drugs have been with us since our perception of time began, in fact some would argue that certain drugs actually sparked the evolution of human consciouness. I don’t see how it helps to have drugs classified as legal and illegal – it seems to give many people the green light to abuse themselves with some false perception that maybe alcohol is safe and Heroin is dangerous?? this sort of system also allows many others to kill themselves with dirty drugs, equipmment, social stigma and criminal justice systems becasue they chose to use somethng like Heroin. Is it not about time that we as a race acknowledgee that we do take drugs and always will take drugs and start to look at how we can enhance our perception, tune our spirits and help those who take it too far with as much support as possible. Obvioulsy we would need to buy into a new way of thinking and tune out of the negative false perception that governments use to bleed us all dry. Unity is all there really is – we’ve just been detuned from it. Just a few thoughts Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you >get a habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:35:49 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with  MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*  /]=———————————————————————=[\  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]  \]=———————————————————————=[/
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Kiersten Leigh Johnson, M.A.

Department of Rhetoric
Program in Film Studies
7408 Dwinelle Hall #2670
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-2670

Mobile phone: 510.508.9597
TeleFAX: 510.642.8881

From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] withdrawals
Date: March 17, 2005 at 3:21:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a friend of mine has a bad back.
right now he is going through withdrawals from painkillers.  they put him on
methodone, but he doesnt have enough to make it to the end of the month.
they wont give him more.  any tips on coping?
ill pass it along.
thanks,
vigilius haufniensis

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 17, 2005 at 1:17:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

howdy M

I liketo follow that idea of evolution, maybe Ibogaine is another step but instead of the big bang style awakening its more like a fine tuning of an already well developed spirit and soul. The thing that gets in the way is as you say negativity.

I think that something on this planet is growing from our negativity – this is maybe why the media and governments keep bleding our hearts and minds with such imagery of darckness and misery.

I don’t understand how we got to this point is our development to do nothing but soak ourselves in greed and power. I know sod all about this planet and little more about myslef, because I’ve been playing the game thats sold to us as Santa Claus is sold to us from childhood.

Its time to start making a new game I think and all it takes are ‘thoughts’ because nothing is what it is without a firstly being one thought shared and felt be the people of this planet.

Good news is all around us but we fail to see it every day becasue we are blinkered by the powers of government the ultimate manipulators.

Look to the earth and feel the only real power – nature, love and light

Good thoughts
Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:16:49 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 17, 2005 at 9:16:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Chris
I wouldnt be suprised if sacred substances did spark the evolution on this planet.  Take Eboga for example…lets say millions of years ago a chimp stumbled on eboga by accident and ingested it……No matter wha his brain capacity he would get in tuned with the whole universe…maybe he wouldnt undesrtand anything aat first but with time his counciousnes would expand and begin to evolve……i agree with you about the whole issue of legal/illegal drugs–i mean why the fuck is alchohol leagal and causes more deaths than heroin/coke etc combined and is extremly addictive–that just makes no sense –i think its a big political game–a big reason there is so much drugs is because alot of what is confiscated goes right back on the street,etc….yes brother unity is everything!!!!!!!!without it we are lost…..if we as a society dont realize we are all one we will perish in dispondency….without love there is hate and with hate the negative nergy not only will have imense impact on this planet but in all this beautifull universe……ONe love

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:25:32 +0000 Hi Mat Its a shame when folk milk the system and that happens a lot in the UK to. Methadone is another addiction but on the scale of things its safer than H and much easier to control. I guess it depends on what the individual wants to do, many people seem to need some sort of drug in their systems for a million reasons. What about legalisation?? Drugs have been with us since our perception of time began, in fact some would argue that certain drugs actually sparked the evolution of human consciouness. I don’t see how it helps to have drugs classified as legal and illegal – it seems to give many people the green light to abuse themselves with some false perception that maybe alcohol is safe and Heroin is dangerous?? this sort of system also allows many others to kill themselves with dirty drugs, equipmment, social stigma and criminal justice systems becasue they chose to use somethng like Heroin. Is it not about time that we as a race acknowledgee that we do take drugs and always will take drugs and start to look at how we can enhance our perception, tune our spirits and help those who take it too far with as much support as possible. Obvioulsy we would need to buy into a new way of thinking and tune out of the negative false perception that governments use to bleed us all dry. Unity is all there really is – we’ve just been detuned from it. Just a few thoughts Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you >get a habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:35:49 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 17, 2005 at 9:16:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Chris
I wouldnt be suprised if sacred substances did spark the evolution on this planet.  Take Eboga for example…lets say millions of years ago a chimp stumbled on eboga by accident and ingested it……No matter wha his brain capacity he would get in tuned with the whole universe…maybe he wouldnt undesrtand anything aat first but with time his counciousnes would expand and begin to evolve……i agree with you about the whole issue of legal/illegal drugs–i mean why the fuck is alchohol leagal and causes more deaths than heroin/coke etc combined and is extremly addictive–that just makes no sense –i think its a big political game–a big reason there is so much drugs is because alot of what is confiscated goes right back on the street,etc….yes brother unity is everything!!!!!!!!without it we are lost…..if we as a society dont realize we are all one we will perish in dispondency….without love there is hate and with hate the negative nergy not only will have imense impact on this planet but in all this beautifull universe……ONe love

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:25:32 +0000 Hi Mat Its a shame when folk milk the system and that happens a lot in the UK to. Methadone is another addiction but on the scale of things its safer than H and much easier to control. I guess it depends on what the individual wants to do, many people seem to need some sort of drug in their systems for a million reasons. What about legalisation?? Drugs have been with us since our perception of time began, in fact some would argue that certain drugs actually sparked the evolution of human consciouness. I don’t see how it helps to have drugs classified as legal and illegal – it seems to give many people the green light to abuse themselves with some false perception that maybe alcohol is safe and Heroin is dangerous?? this sort of system also allows many others to kill themselves with dirty drugs, equipmment, social stigma and criminal justice systems becasue they chose to use somethng like Heroin. Is it not about time that we as a race acknowledgee that we do take drugs and always will take drugs and start to look at how we can enhance our perception, tune our spirits and help those who take it too far with as much support as possible. Obvioulsy we would need to buy into a new way of thinking and tune out of the negative false perception that governments use to bleed us all dry. Unity is all there really is – we’ve just been detuned from it. Just a few thoughts Much Love Chris >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you >get a habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:35:49 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now! http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/ << message3.txt >> /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 17, 2005 at 8:25:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mat

Its a shame when folk milk the system and that happens a lot in the UK to. Methadone is another addiction but on the scale of things its safer than H and much easier to control. I guess it depends on what the individual wants to do, many people seem to need some sort of drug in their systems for a million reasons.

What about legalisation?? Drugs have been with us since our perception of time began, in fact some would argue that certain drugs actually sparked the evolution of human consciouness.

I don’t see how it helps to have drugs classified as legal and illegal – it seems to give many people the green light to abuse themselves with some false perception that maybe alcohol is safe and Heroin is dangerous?? this sort of system also allows many others to kill themselves with dirty drugs, equipmment, social stigma and criminal justice systems becasue they chose to use somethng like Heroin.

Is it not about time that we as a race acknowledgee that we do take drugs and always will take drugs and start to look at how we can enhance our perception, tune our spirits and help those who take it too far with as much support as possible.

Obvioulsy we would need to buy into a new way of thinking and tune out of the negative false perception that governments use to bleed us all dry. Unity is all there really is – we’ve just been detuned from it.

Just a few thoughts

Much Love

Chris

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:35:49 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Want to block unwanted pop-ups? Download the free MSN Toolbar now!  http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 7:35:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Well lets say there is no evidence showing that methadone sinks into your bones and maybe they are just horror stories that others recreate and exagerate as well but what about the fact that you drink methadone everysingle day and you could get by somehow wihtout a dose the next day.  What does that tell you? trying to skp a day with H would me imposible.  Here in Canada to get on the meth program is really simple.  You go to a meth doctor…he check the urine for opiates….if positive starts you at about 15-25mg depending on habit and increases by 15mg every 3 days until you are satisfied with the dose….you can go up to basicaly whatever u feel like …..which is unacaptable because i know people who had only a percocet habit going on meth just for kicks and now they are stuck at 200mg….

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:51:12 +0100 Hi Mat, Maybe there is no evidence but if people considering that Metha, does Gets into the bone and feels that way, then you may ask yourself who Conducted that research? And how it looks like. I can hardly believe that When you feel that it is in the bone someone else who never felt that Can say it is all in your mind Methadone is not the nightmare but you created your own nightmare, maybe I don’t understand much of it I never had A methadone detox. So I can’t say much about how it feels to come off. S. —–Oorspronkelijk bericht—– Van: Chris Hunter [mailto:abductmeplease@hotmail.com] Verzonden: woensdag 16 maart 2005 19:35 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Hi Mat There is no evidence that Methadone does anything at all to your bones. Each person’s expereince is different and many people listen to horror stories and then create there own nightmare for themselves. Its a fact that opiates are hard to get off once addicted to them, its that simple and that hard. Intention and a spot of PMA should help.positive mental attitude that is Accessing a methadone program through a local drugs agency can be helpful – you get a regular clean supply negotiated between you your GP and a caseworker. Once in place you can detox slowly eithier in the community or in a specilist unit. Not sure what the situation is like in the US though – can you explain your system to me please? >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a >habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:25:58 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: March 17, 2005 at 12:04:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the sage advice Jon, I have to admit I’d already thought of
the
benzo routine though- funny how that works, druggy types thinking alike and
all.
;-))

ahahah… yeah.. to steal a quote from homer, drugs …” the cause of, and
solution to, all of life’s problems” =)

Who else here on the ibo list is in LA? Anyone? Where are you Jon?
South,
right? (Sorry, I simply cannot for the life of me remember- but I should
point out btw, I thought it was awfully fun hanging out with you at
Dana’s.)

dana’s was a blast.

i’m sorta in the south, but not really… baltimore… they say here we
have the relaxed charm of the north, and the culture and intellect of the
south… ehe

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: from ron, off list
Date: March 16, 2005 at 11:05:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

still the same?
—– Original Message —–
From: IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com
To: rwd3@cox.net
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:04 AM
Subject: Re: from ron, off list

Hi,
Call me in the afternoon sometime at 352-4278724.
Eric

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 16, 2005 at 9:16:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey man just chill out and try to enjoy the whole experience…try to have fun…anxiety is a bitch as im sure you know so why even bother with it…….if we keep puting negative thoughts in our head we’ll get negative results, negative enrgy will oeverwhelm us and getting back to balance can be quite diffuclt ……take care …wish you best of luck in everything….

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:48:28 -0500 Thank you Donna. One might think simple physical traveling wouldn’t bother me so much, considering all the astral/mental traveling I’ve done, which has shown me in so many ways the little teeny place I hold in the universe as a whole and that I can rest easy about my brief time and end when it comes- but for some reason, flying this time (for the very first time in my life) has me actually getting sweaty palms, and the idea of flying in as much pain as I’ve been experiencing, ever growing ever more irritating and slowing-me-down type pain, I’m simply not looking entirely forward to the actual travel part of the trip- although flying first class has GOT to be easier on my back and legs than flying coach, and I’m getting rides beginning from my apartment door to airport, from airport to hotel, hotel to tv lot, back to hotel, back to airport, from NYC airport to apartment door- I’ve NEVER been able to travel THAT chaufered, so that in and of itself makes it slight easier to feel somewhat enthusiastic about the whole travel thing part- the novelty alone will make a FUN story to write, beginning of course with my standing in that freezing hallway at 6AM yesterday. God I keep smackign myself in the head over that one. Boneheaded thing to do, but really funny if I don’t mind laughing at myself, which I usually don’t- except I coulda slept in a LOT later yesterday and not had such a nervous stomach for another week yet. Any ideas on how to make this week go faster folks? Peace and love, Preston “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness” Richard Davenport-Hines ptpeet@nyc.rr.com Editor http://www.drugwar.com Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs” Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005) Cont. High Times mag/.com Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com Columnist New York Waste Etc. —– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:38 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone Hi Preston I wish you all the luck in the world you will be fine, and try not to worry about the travelling. love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxx /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Hannah. I’d say 4 days. 🙂
Date: March 16, 2005 at 8:31:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

How you doin’ girl. :). What I am about to say is my personal experience and opinion. It takes 4 days to START to stabilise on Methadone. To play it safe I would not
go beyond the 4 day mark. As you know methadone has a much longer life span than heroin. What I have done in the past is had one big dose, enough to feel warm
then the next day have a bit less as I would have some of the previous days methadone in my system. The third day a little less again then on the 4th and final day
I would have approx a third to a quater of the first dose. For example;150 on the first day, 120 the next day(as some of the first days 150mg dose would still be in my
system). then I would have 80mg on the third day,  then 25 to 40 on the last day.

I am talking MG here not ML’S. You probably know that 150mg is actually 30ml’s. Do not have 150ml’s as this is 750mg’s. 150 mg is what I had(30ml’s)

Of course these doses depend on the size of the heroin habit. If the person is only using $20 worth a day then 150mg COULD kill them. But I am sure, like the rest
of us your friend has tried methadone before and should have an idea on how much they can handle. Be careful.

Hannah this only works if your environment changes otherwise it is way to difficult to stick with it. On the 5th day(with no Methdone) you will probably not be to bad,
however on the sixth day when most to all the done is out of your system you will be feeling minor withdrawals, depending on the size of the heroin habit.

If your friend is still in the same scene/area, it will be way to difficult to succeed. You need an after plan. This is the most important thing IMHO.

Listening to Deep Purple. Mmmmm yeah. Play us a tune Randy.
love,
Jasen
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?

Hi all,

My friend is intending to detox from Heroin using Methadone short-term.  We’ve done this before but I want to know for safety’s sake how long it takes to become addicted to Methadone?  How many days/weeks can you use it before you become addicted?  I realise you can detox from H using Meth just for 5 days but would still like to know just in case.

Thanks in advance,
Hannah

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 7:35:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Well lets say there is no evidence showing that methadone sinks into your bones and maybe they are just horror stories that others recreate and exagerate as well but what about the fact that you drink methadone everysingle day and you could get by somehow wihtout a dose the next day.  What does that tell you? trying to skp a day with H would me imposible.  Here in Canada to get on the meth program is really simple.  You go to a meth doctor…he check the urine for opiates….if positive starts you at about 15-25mg depending on habit and increases by 15mg every 3 days until you are satisfied with the dose….you can go up to basicaly whatever u feel like …..which is unacaptable because i know people who had only a percocet habit going on meth just for kicks and now they are stuck at 200mg….

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:51:12 +0100 Hi Mat, Maybe there is no evidence but if people considering that Metha, does Gets into the bone and feels that way, then you may ask yourself who Conducted that research? And how it looks like. I can hardly believe that When you feel that it is in the bone someone else who never felt that Can say it is all in your mind Methadone is not the nightmare but you created your own nightmare, maybe I don’t understand much of it I never had A methadone detox. So I can’t say much about how it feels to come off. S. —–Oorspronkelijk bericht—– Van: Chris Hunter [mailto:abductmeplease@hotmail.com] Verzonden: woensdag 16 maart 2005 19:35 Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Hi Mat There is no evidence that Methadone does anything at all to your bones. Each person’s expereince is different and many people listen to horror stories and then create there own nightmare for themselves. Its a fact that opiates are hard to get off once addicted to them, its that simple and that hard. Intention and a spot of PMA should help.positive mental attitude that is Accessing a methadone program through a local drugs agency can be helpful – you get a regular clean supply negotiated between you your GP and a caseworker. Once in place you can detox slowly eithier in the community or in a specilist unit. Not sure what the situation is like in the US though – can you explain your system to me please? >From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a >habit? >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:25:58 -0500 > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Send junk mail straight into your Recycle Bin with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 5:51:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mat,

Maybe there is no evidence but if people considering that Metha, does
Gets into the bone and feels that way, then you may ask yourself who
Conducted that research? And how it looks like. I can hardly believe that
When you feel that it is in the bone someone else who never felt that
Can say it is all in your mind Methadone is not the nightmare but you
created your own nightmare, maybe I don’t understand much of it I never had
A methadone detox. So I can’t say much about how it feels to come off.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Chris Hunter [mailto:abductmeplease@hotmail.com]
Verzonden: woensdag 16 maart 2005 19:35
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a
habit?

Hi Mat

There is no evidence that Methadone does anything at all to your bones. Each

person’s expereince is different and many people listen to horror stories
and then create there own nightmare for themselves. Its a fact that opiates
are hard to get off once addicted to them, its that simple and that hard.
Intention and a spot of PMA should help.positive mental attitude that is

Accessing a methadone program through a local drugs agency can be helpful –
you get a regular clean supply negotiated between you your GP and a
caseworker. Once in place you can detox slowly eithier in the community or
in a specilist unit. Not sure what the situation is like in the US though –
can you explain your system to me please?

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a
habit?
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:25:58 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

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From: “Chris Hunter” <abductmeplease@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 1:34:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mat

There is no evidence that Methadone does anything at all to your bones. Each person’s expereince is different and many people listen to horror stories and then create there own nightmare for themselves. Its a fact that opiates are hard to get off once addicted to them, its that simple and that hard. Intention and a spot of PMA should help.positive mental attitude that is

Accessing a methadone program through a local drugs agency can be helpful – you get a regular clean supply negotiated between you your GP and a caseworker. Once in place you can detox slowly eithier in the community or in a specilist unit. Not sure what the situation is like in the US though – can you explain your system to me please?

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:25:58 -0500

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 10:25:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
I think starting methadone to curtail an h addiction is not a good idea.  First because it is much more potent than most H on the street….second the half life of methadone is redicoulously long and sinks into your bones and stays there….from what i wnet through with meth withdarwl and from people i know and what i read i would never recomend meth to anyone especily for a few days…..u better off using junk because ull have less of a haslle coming off when u are ready

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: AbbotAngel@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 06:10:31 EST Hi hannah i copied this mail from martee and jasen says this works to, i definately think its worth thinking about to get you past the really crap days, I hope you are ok, Im still using : ( love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Donna, If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more. By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly known thing? Just a thought. Martee —– Original Message —– From: _AbbotAngel_ (mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com)

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 16, 2005 at 12:41:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Water is very good for dehydration;
better then alcohol because of the air pressure in the plane. You will feel
much more refreshed.<

Yeah, believe it or not, I am a firm believer in drinking water and fruit juices. I almost never ever drink- it’s literally maybe one drink per year if that. And that’s usually a beer at that.
That said, thanks for the well wishing and good vibes, from you Suzanne and from everyone else both on and off list with your well wishing- it does me good, really, to know there are people out there thinking strongly for me.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Hello Preston;
I really believe once you are on the plane you are going to be just fine!
Take “something” for your pain issues so you can relax, have a nice soft
pillow and lean your seat back as far as it will go. I use dark sun-glasses
and just lay back and close my eyes. Chew gum at take off and at landing
time.it helps the pressure in your ears! Water is very good for dehydration;
better then alcohol because of the air pressure in the plane. You will feel
much more refreshed.
Try and relax this week, think of a new story (you are so good at this!) to
write and try to get your mind off from the negative thoughts, think
positive!
I am sending good vibes your way! You are going to do just great, really!!
Big Smile, Susan

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Thank you Donna.
One might think simple physical traveling wouldn’t bother me so much,
considering all the astral/mental traveling I’ve done, which has shown me
in
so many ways the little teeny place I hold in the universe as a whole and
that I can rest easy about my brief time and end when it comes- but for
some
reason, flying this time (for the very first time in my life) has me
actually getting sweaty palms, and the idea of flying in as much pain as
I’ve been experiencing, ever growing ever more irritating and
slowing-me-down type pain, I’m simply not looking entirely forward to the
actual travel part of the trip- although flying first class has GOT to be
easier on my back and legs than flying coach, and I’m getting rides
beginning from my apartment door to airport, from airport to hotel, hotel
to
tv lot, back to hotel, back to airport, from NYC airport to apartment
door-
I’ve NEVER been able to travel THAT chaufered, so that in and of itself
makes it slight easier to feel somewhat enthusiastic about the whole
travel
thing part- the novelty alone will make a FUN story to write, beginning of
course with my standing in that freezing hallway at 6AM yesterday. God I
keep smackign myself in the head over that one. Boneheaded thing to do,
but
really funny if I don’t mind laughing at myself, which I usually don’t-
except I coulda slept in a LOT later yesterday and not had such a nervous
stomach for another week yet.
Any ideas on how to make this week go faster folks?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Hi Preston

I wish you all the luck in the world you will be fine, and try not to
worry
about the travelling.

love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxx

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From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 16, 2005 at 11:43:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston;
I really believe once you are on the plane you are going to be just fine!
Take “something” for your pain issues so you can relax, have a nice soft
pillow and lean your seat back as far as it will go. I use dark sun-glasses
and just lay back and close my eyes. Chew gum at take off and at landing
time.it helps the pressure in your ears! Water is very good for dehydration;
better then alcohol because of the air pressure in the plane. You will feel
much more refreshed.
Try and relax this week, think of a new story (you are so good at this!) to
write and try to get your mind off from the negative thoughts, think
positive!
I am sending good vibes your way! You are going to do just great, really!!
Big Smile, Susan

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Thank you Donna.
One might think simple physical traveling wouldn’t bother me so much,
considering all the astral/mental traveling I’ve done, which has shown me
in
so many ways the little teeny place I hold in the universe as a whole and
that I can rest easy about my brief time and end when it comes- but for
some
reason, flying this time (for the very first time in my life) has me
actually getting sweaty palms, and the idea of flying in as much pain as
I’ve been experiencing, ever growing ever more irritating and
slowing-me-down type pain, I’m simply not looking entirely forward to the
actual travel part of the trip- although flying first class has GOT to be
easier on my back and legs than flying coach, and I’m getting rides
beginning from my apartment door to airport, from airport to hotel, hotel
to
tv lot, back to hotel, back to airport, from NYC airport to apartment
door-
I’ve NEVER been able to travel THAT chaufered, so that in and of itself
makes it slight easier to feel somewhat enthusiastic about the whole
travel
thing part- the novelty alone will make a FUN story to write, beginning of
course with my standing in that freezing hallway at 6AM yesterday. God I
keep smackign myself in the head over that one. Boneheaded thing to do,
but
really funny if I don’t mind laughing at myself, which I usually don’t-
except I coulda slept in a LOT later yesterday and not had such a nervous
stomach for another week yet.
Any ideas on how to make this week go faster folks?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Hi Preston

I wish you all the luck in the world you will be fine, and try not to
worry
about the travelling.

love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxx

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: March 16, 2005 at 11:13:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the sage advice Jon, I have to admit I’d already thought of the benzo routine though- funny how that works, druggy types thinking alike and all.
;-))
Who else here on the ibo list is in LA? Anyone? Where are you Jon? South, right? (Sorry, I simply cannot for the life of me remember- but I should point out btw, I thought it was awfully fun hanging out with you at Dana’s.)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] preston..

congrats on landing the acting gig! break a leg (not literally of course) =)

i get freaked out by airplanes sometimes too cause i’m kinda
claustrophobic… so i thought i’d mention what i do to get over it.

now, not that i’m advocating taking prescription drugs without the advice
and consent of a trained medical professional (ha ha)… but, whenever i
have to fly i usually take one or two ativan or xanax (depending on how
long the flight is).

works very well… especially if it happens to be a flight that offers a
complimentary drink =)

if you want to avoid the hassle of obtaining such drugs, kava and valerian
would prolly help somewhat as well. (my personal choice would be the
ativan though…ehe)

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 11:10:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It did work for me more than once, using it for two three or four days even once, to kick a very heavy heroin addiction- of course I seemed to eventually go back to the heroin each time, but I was “clean” from opiates for a few months or even just a few weeks each time I used methadone to kick heroin. Then when I finally went on the KEEP program here in NYC, I was on methadone for nearly four years- and that was very difficult, in terms of discomfort and outright pain issues, much worse than kicking heroin cold turkey, which I’ve done a few times too.
Using small doses of methadone to kick a heroin habit does work, if you don’t go over just a few days of using it I’d imagine. You’re still going to have the psychological aspects to deal with, but you can get over the worst of heroin withdrawals by using small amounts of methadone for a few days.
At least, I did. Maybe it’s not the same for others- but in my case it worked fine.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?

Hi
I think starting methadone to curtail an h addiction is not a good idea. First because it is much more potent than most H on the street….second the half life of methadone is redicoulously long and sinks into your bones and stays there….from what i wnet through with meth withdarwl and from people i know and what i read i would never recomend meth to anyone especily for a few days…..u better off using junk because ull have less of a haslle coming off when u are ready

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: AbbotAngel@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 06:10:31 EST Hi hannah i copied this mail from martee and jasen says this works to, i definately think its worth thinking about to get you past the really crap days, I hope you are ok, Im still using : ( love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Donna, If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more. By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly known thing? Just a thought. Martee —– Original Message —– From: _AbbotAngel_ (mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com)

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 10:42:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Methadone takes three days, one dose a day, to to
raise your blood levels… First it goes and fills all
your organs, then it eventually raises in your
blood…  And it’s half-life is much longer than
shorter acting opiates, so the withdrawal from it
lasts longer, although it might not be quite as
intense as a cold turkey heroin detox.  I tried
detoxing with methadone and it kept me from getting
sick while I was on it, but when I was done, I still
got almost as sick as with heroin.   It takes way
longer to feel better from trying to detox from
methadone, as opposed to heroin, too.  I was addicted
to methadone for 3 years and heroin for several years
before that.  Iboga has worked for me, and I am clean,
it will have been a year at the end of this month…
Methadone I believe made it even tougher for me to
kick, and I did still have some minor WD sypmtoms
afterward, thanks to the methadone, but high quality
cannabis helped most of the depression and minor WD.
CE

— Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi all,

My friend is intending to detox from Heroin using
Methadone short-term.  We’ve done this before but I
want to know for safety’s sake how long it takes to
become addicted to Methadone?  How many days/weeks
can you use it before you become addicted?  I
realise you can detox from H using Meth just for 5
days but would still like to know just in case.

Thanks in advance,
Hannah

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 10:25:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
I think starting methadone to curtail an h addiction is not a good idea.  First because it is much more potent than most H on the street….second the half life of methadone is redicoulously long and sinks into your bones and stays there….from what i wnet through with meth withdarwl and from people i know and what i read i would never recomend meth to anyone especily for a few days…..u better off using junk because ull have less of a haslle coming off when u are ready

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: AbbotAngel@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit? Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 06:10:31 EST Hi hannah i copied this mail from martee and jasen says this works to, i definately think its worth thinking about to get you past the really crap days, I hope you are ok, Im still using : ( love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Donna, If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more. By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly known thing? Just a thought. Martee —– Original Message —– From: _AbbotAngel_ (mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com)

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: [Ibogaine] preston..
Date: March 16, 2005 at 10:25:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

congrats on landing the acting gig! break a leg (not literally of course) =)

i get freaked out by airplanes sometimes too cause i’m kinda
claustrophobic… so i thought i’d mention what i do to get over it.

now, not that i’m advocating taking prescription drugs without the advice
and consent of a trained medical professional (ha ha)… but, whenever i
have to fly i usually take one or two ativan or xanax (depending on how
long the flight is).

works very well… especially if it happens to be a flight that offers a
complimentary drink =)

if you want to avoid the hassle of obtaining such drugs, kava and valerian
would prolly help somewhat as well. (my personal choice would be the
ativan though…ehe)

jon

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 10:19:04 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My friend is intending to detox from Heroin using Methadone short-term.
We’ve done this before but I want to know for safety’s sake how long it
takes to become addicted to Methadone?  How many days/weeks can you use it
before you become addicted?  I realise you can detox from H using Meth
just for 5 days but would still like to know just in case.

because methadone has a considerably longer half life, it typically takes
longer to become physically dependent on it compared to heroin.

but… you also have to remember that methadone is cross
tolerant/dependent with heroin, so when you’re talking about someone who
is already dependent on heroin (which i suspect would be most people who
take methadone), they’ll become dependent on methadone considerably faster
than what would be the theoretical norm. they could even be dependent on
methadone immediately, depending on how severe their heroin dependency is.

so, in a heroin dependent population, you’re probably looking at somewhere
between 0 and 3 days before they become dependent on methadone. for
someone who has been heroin dependent, but has gone through w/d already,
it’d prolly be somewhere between 1 and 6 days or so. for the general
population, it would take weeks… but how often does the general
population take methadone? =)

jon

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 16, 2005 at 7:13:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Stop looking at the clock and the time will go faster,<

good advice

you will be fine when travelling write a story.<

Even better advice, thanks Donna.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Hi Preston

Stop looking at the clock and the time will go faster, you will be fine when travelling write a story.
thinking of you donnaxx

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 6:10:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi hannah i copied this mail from martee and jasen says this works to, i definately think its worth thinking about to get you past the really crap days, I hope you are ok, Im still using : (

love donnaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Donna,
If you are on H only, have you ever considered just doing 3-4 days of methedone to get over your jones. It was something I commonly did during all my years, however I was not mentally ready to really stop so I always used again. You have stated that you feel mentally you are ready. The way it works is in 3 days you are not yet addicted to the methedone and then you have a few days after that where the accumulation of the 3 days of meth will hold you still. The worst of the H kick is usually 3 days or a little more. By day 4 or 5 I was always fine as fine can be physically. I know there may be some personal variables here for you re: amt and quality of what you’re using, your personal metabolism, etc.etc. But I’ve wondered why if you are definitly not doing the ibogaine(too bad) is this protocol not a commonly known thing? Just a thought.
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 16, 2005 at 6:00:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston

Stop looking at the clock and the time will go faster, you will be fine when travelling write a story.
thinking of you donnaxx

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] How long can you use Methadone before you get a habit?
Date: March 16, 2005 at 4:23:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,

My friend is intending to detox from Heroin using Methadone short-term.  We’ve done this before but I want to know for safety’s sake how long it takes to become addicted to Methadone?  How many days/weeks can you use it before you become addicted?  I realise you can detox from H using Meth just for 5 days but would still like to know just in case.

Thanks in advance,
Hannah

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone
Date: March 15, 2005 at 3:36:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I’ve been gone, and still am, but I wish you good fortune on your endevers. I’ll never be able to deal with all this mail when I get back.      Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 15, 2005 at 11:48:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Donna.
One might think simple physical traveling wouldn’t bother me so much, considering all the astral/mental traveling I’ve done, which has shown me in so many ways the little teeny place I hold in the universe as a whole and that I can rest easy about my brief time and end when it comes- but for some reason, flying this time (for the very first time in my life) has me actually getting sweaty palms, and the idea of flying in as much pain as I’ve been experiencing, ever growing ever more irritating and slowing-me-down type pain, I’m simply not looking entirely forward to the actual travel part of the trip- although flying first class has GOT to be easier on my back and legs than flying coach, and I’m getting rides beginning from my apartment door to airport, from airport to hotel, hotel to tv lot, back to hotel, back to airport, from NYC airport to apartment door- I’ve NEVER been able to travel THAT chaufered, so that in and of itself makes it slight easier to feel somewhat enthusiastic about the whole travel thing part- the novelty alone will make a FUN story to write, beginning of course with my standing in that freezing hallway at 6AM yesterday. God I keep smackign myself in the head over that one. Boneheaded thing to do, but really funny if I don’t mind laughing at myself, which I usually don’t- except I coulda slept in a LOT later yesterday and not had such a nervous stomach for another week yet.
Any ideas on how to make this week go faster folks?

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Hi Preston

I wish you all the luck in the world you will be fine, and try not to worry about the travelling.

love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxx

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone
Date: March 15, 2005 at 10:44:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good point Howard, thanks, I needed to read that first thing this morning.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone

Hi Preston,

Better a week early than a week late.

Howard

In a message dated 3/14/05 4:37:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Really, I can’t tell you how stupid I felt standing in my hall this
morning, calling the production office at 6:23 to say, “I’m waiting for
my ride who appears to be getting quite late,” only to have the girl at the
office LAUGH at me, saying “no Preston, it’s NEXT week, you dingus (or
kindly but laughing at me words to that effect).

Sigh. At least I can get more book work done this week after all, which
my publisher should be happy to hear.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] invitation,
Date: March 15, 2005 at 10:21:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At my home, Netherlands,

You can count on 80- 100 euros , the session is 5 hours, you will need to bering your sleeping bag,

Sara
Van: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com] 
Verzonden: dinsdag 15 maart 2005 14:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,

Hi Sara

Hope you are well I would like to experience the ayahusca ceremony where will it be held????
love donnaxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] invitation,
Date: March 15, 2005 at 8:49:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara

Hope you are well I would like to experience the ayahusca ceremony where will it be held????
love donnaxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Angel, Donna,Angel,Donna. 🙂
Date: March 15, 2005 at 8:44:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen

Thanks for that I will check it out, I am thinking of you to, you are my inspiration you are where I want to be.

Take care xxxxxxxxxxxx

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 15, 2005 at 8:38:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston

I wish you all the luck in the world you will be fine, and try not to worry about the travelling.

love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxxx

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] invitation,
Date: March 15, 2005 at 6:48:07 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People who would like to experience an ayahusca ceremony  (with a Brazilian ceremony master,on April the 20th.)
Are welcome to write me back,

Sara

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kate Was Great
Date: March 14, 2005 at 11:23:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder… light bulb… I wonder… at the pages of stories of
untimely deaths, of losses perhaps avoidable had treatment and support
been available… I think of Jeff’s first wife, of other losses people
in our immediate network have shared with me, of the poignancy of that
part of the Ibogaine: Rites of Passage film where the middle-class
“straight” father chokes back tears at the prospect of losing his
daughter to her intoxipsychoses… and the light bulb is like the
quilt, but stories… like a facebook to deglamorize the heroin chic
and raise both awareness, sentiment, and monies for the Movement.

Is it a bright enough light bulb, or am I just mourning the constant
loss of my stepson’s dead mother and the pain that corrodes into me as
well, just by association?

living in her shadow, rachel

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:26:43 EST, HSLotsof@aol.com <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:
saddened by her untimely death.

In a message dated 3/14/05 10:00:12 AM, dana@phantom.com writes:

I am frustrated because I could have saved her.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone
Date: March 14, 2005 at 7:29:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Better a week early than a week late.

Howard

In a message dated 3/14/05 4:37:58 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

Really, I can’t tell you how stupid I felt standing in my hall this
morning, calling the production office at 6:23 to say, “I’m waiting for
my ride who appears to be getting quite late,” only to have the girl at the
office LAUGH at me, saying “no Preston, it’s NEXT week, you dingus (or
kindly but laughing at me words to that effect).

Sigh. At least I can get more book work done this week after all, which
my publisher should be happy to hear.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kate Was Great
Date: March 14, 2005 at 7:26:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Dana,

I usually object on general principals to your sharing personal email.
However, Norma and I fondly remember Kate and were saddened by her untimely death.
Thanks for the letter from her dad.  It brought back good memories.

Howard

In a message dated 3/14/05 10:00:12 AM, dana@phantom.com writes:

I am frustrated because I could have saved her.

The reason I’m reproducing the letter here though is for the background
on the movement, Yippie and otherwise. Fraser Clark, promoter of raves
and re-inventor of the Zippies (not the original Tom Forcade Zippies)
was actually on the ibogaine list pre-mindvox….

From: goodjefflaster@hotmail.com

Dear Dana..Jeff here Kate’s stepdad…Hope you are reasonably
well……Anniversary of kate’s death on Friday March 18th(anti-Iraq
occupation march next day here)….she loved you  and respected you
more than just about anyone else(she told me) and working with you
was a highlight of her life…I’m not saying that everything was rosey
all the time but you gave her a lot and hopefuly she gave some in
return…

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Angel, Donna,Angel,Donna. 🙂
Date: March 14, 2005 at 6:49:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Angel,

This is a hard question, as herbs, different herbs, suit different people.

” Oates seed”, “Oates green” and “Chaparelle”. Also “Schizandra” is an
adaptagine which helps bring your body back to normal function,
protects the liver and increases liver detox, increases mental and
physical stamina and is calming at the same time.

Also “Skull cap” to renew and regenerate the nervous system.

The best way Donna is to see a “GOOD” herbalist/Naturapath and
they will pick the herbs best suited to your individual energy.

It is the same with all energy, One energy that is good for one may
not be good for another.

In Feng Shui, the energy in one house that is excellent for the
occupants may not be good for another person.

I am thinking of you, be well Angel.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,(Jason)

Hi Jasen

Glad you are well, what are anti addiction herbs?????????????

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone
Date: March 14, 2005 at 5:47:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why Preston!  You’ve been time-slimed!  🙂  Welcome back to mid-March!
love rachel

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,(Jason)
Date: March 14, 2005 at 5:03:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen

Glad you are well, what are anti addiction herbs?????????????

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 14, 2005 at 4:30:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please see my subsequent admission to utter stonerdome stupidity.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 2:41 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] hi everyone

Hi all,
I ask that all subscribers to DrugWar.com behave politely to one another for the next few days, as I’m going to be off line in LA (first time ever- I can’t sleep I’m so nervous about traveling, which means I’ve changed a bit since my younger days, I think) doing this tv pilot thing. To everyone else on the ibogaine list I simply say, “hi there.”
So please, continue overloading my box with interesting, informative, depressing, encouraging, etc messages pertaining to anything at all related to drugs legal and non, and to the war on some drugs and users and the producers thereof- I will read them all when I get back.
;-))
Have a great week all, and wish me luck please.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone
Date: March 14, 2005 at 4:22:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi guys,
There may be an intelligent being who is the cause of the universe, but heck, it sure ain’t me- I completely misread my internerary, and found out only at 6:23 AM this morning, standing freezing in our apartment building entry hall while waiting for my ride to the airport that lo and behold the ride wasn’t really late at all- I was a whole freakin’ week EARLY.
Egad, this is too embarrassing.
So, while the LA shooting is still on, and I’m still going to be working on the pilot, I’ve got another week of waiting to fly across the country, giving my self the heebyjeebies over flying all over again all week, getting more nervous as the time draws near AGAIN.
Sigh.
Anyway, I’m still here for another week, so even though I asked you all the take responsiblity for your own civility to one another, your moderator (me, if you’ve jnot yet guessed)  is still hovering around ready to strike the fear of moderators into any misbehaviorer…oh, wait a minutes, I think that’s another list and a completely different moderator, so….never mind. I’ll let you all know again when I am ready to fly to LA, but it’s not for yet another week.
Really, I can’t tell you how stupid I felt standing in my hall this morning, calling the production office at 6:23 to say, “I’m waiting for my ride who appears to be getting quite late,” only to have the girl at the office LAUGH at me, saying “no Preston, it’s NEXT week, you dingus (or kindly but laughing at me words to that effect).
Sigh. At least I can get more book work done this week after all, which my publisher should be happy to hear.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] hi everyone

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Have a great week all, and wish me luck please.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

Luck, Preston. You’re going to great. Can’t wait until
the show airs.

best,

Libby

Libby Spencer
Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blog
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
Proud to have been kicked off Tongue Tied blog
for being too liberal http://www.tonguetied.us/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: Clean Water <clean_wtr@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] they made this neiborhood out of Wood
Date: March 14, 2005 at 1:32:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In the Clock Tower, after the first set of three
days, Get it from the Happy Mask Salesman. Allows you
to use Bubble, Spin, Flower Launching, etc.)

In the Tomb at Snowhead, after you get the Lens of
Truth, bring it   and   use the Song of Healing.

Head to Coast shore, and play the Song of Healing.
Allows you to use Boomerang fins, Fast Swimming,
Energy Field, etc.)

Pool and bring it to the Fountain.

Pushing B will cause you to explode.
Useful when you lack bombs, but it damages you.

Talk to Guru Guru, and he’ll give ‘it’ to you.  Then
have people tell you what they know.

Get ‘it’ from Digital after beating the first
dungeon and completing his minigame. Allows you to
find Mushrooms.

Get It from one of the Mushroom rocks in  Field by
playing the Song of Healing.

Hold down the B button to dance.

Get It after giving some food. Lets you talk to
frogs.

Requires Lens of Truth to See.

Get Postman’s Hat from the Postman after you help
him leave Clock Town on the Night of the Final Day.
Let’s you check the Mail Boxes and summon Ninjas.

Let’s you get into the Milk Bar.

Play the Song of Healing for ‘the man’.    Let’s you
talk to animals and Gossip Stones.

Get Circus Leader’s Mask after making a song using
all four of your instruments in the Milk Bar.
Prevents the Brothers from attacking you when you’re
protecting her milk.

Get the Couple’s Mask by completing the  Sidequest.
Makes stop fighting, and you get a Heart Piece.

Get Digital Deity Mask on the Moon after giving
all of the Kidz your masks. Uses a giant two-handed
Helix shaped sword. Only usable in boss battles,
excluding the use of a glitch.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kate Was Great
Date: March 14, 2005 at 9:52:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I got this letter from Jeff Laster. Kate Morgan worked on both the parade and Dr. Ken’s Ibogaine book in 2,000 before she was deported back to England after being arrested protesting the Republican convention in Philly in 2,000. She was supposed to be married to Chris Simmoneck (sp?) at HIGH TIMES, but the bastard refused to file papers with the INS, and served her with divorce papers a month before the Parade in the spring of 2,000. My offer of marriage was genuine (she was a ringer for Kylie Minogue), and would have let her stay in the country, but she didn’t accept.

I am frustrated because I could have saved her.

The reason I’m reproducing the letter here though is for the background on the movement, Yippie and otherwise. Fraser Clark, promoter of raves and re-inventor of the Zippies (not the original Tom Forcade Zippies) was actually on the ibogaine list pre-mindvox….

From: goodjefflaster@hotmail.com

Dear Dana..Jeff here Kate’s stepdad…Hope you are reasonably well……Anniversary of kate’s death on Friday March 18th(anti-Iraq occupation march next day here)….she loved you  and respected you more than just about anyone else(she told me) and working with you  was a highlight of her life…I’m not saying that everything was rosey all the time but you gave her a lot and hopefuly she gave some in return…I wish she had stayed with you as the people she got entangled with here were a very rough crew (though nice) and encouraged her drinking and wrong drugging..a couple of women friends were into smack though she wasn’t..I’m going to light a candle  in the evening her….I think she crashed the car(racing her boyfriend while drunk) about 10:15 which is 5:15 your time(she died instantly)……as I said to you  (and many others have too) you were an influence on 16 year old me in 1968-9(this is not just words…Jerry and Abby of course…literally the Yippie actions in Chicago are what radicalised me as I watched them on TV but you as well even though I only read about you)…Jerry I hung out with for several days at anti-war protests in Washington ’70 and he treated me kindly….yeah there was ego but many did not treat me as kindly in my own Weathermen collective…..March 6 was TownHouse anniversary and i felt a mixture of emotions as I did on the day after  back then……I didn’t really know any of the dead people personally though I did know Kathy boudin(who escaped) whom I adored…I recently  gave a talk at a Weather Underground film showing  and I led a discussion after the film as well…went very well full house…people romanticising the Weather people and I tried to achieve some balance…..just as people romanticised Jerry and Abby……only when you are close up to people in a thing do you see the weak points…anyway as jack lemmon said at the end of Some Like it Hot Nobody’s Perfect……..dana I hope Bleecker Street is sorted now please let me know what’s happening…..I know how busy you are but I’d like to correspond with you if you’re up for it doesn’t have to be an everyday thing……could be interesting…..I try and see the ‘alternative’ culture from various angles…..talking of alternative history and the Yippie Museum Project(how is that going)  progressing) I was at a birthday party for fraser(clark) at a well known squatted  church here which has become the big centrepiece for a lot of happenings….anyway i mentioned to a few of the leading young activists that what was happening at the Church was a outgrowth of the Yippie and Digger scenes in the states..well they barely knew what i was talking about…which reinforced my feeling of the need for alternative education about their own subculture…..that’s one of the reasons I worked with fraser for years conceptualising alternative rave clubs with late night talks and debates and film  and theatre centering around the alternative culture and the issues related to it.and teaching the history of our own subculture while not ignoring the present…..we did some amazing stuff and Shane whom you know was often there at the ‘WARP Experience and other clubs we did..I’m not close with Shane but i respect him and admire him tremendously..some people who are jealous slag him off as they do you(and Fraser)  but do they realise how hard it is to be a leader in a supposedly leaderless culture……which is not to say Shane or you or fraser are beyond criticism…..I’ve had these raps with fraser as we philosophise about the alternative culture….I could say a lot more  but I’ll leave it to you if you want to continue it(hope you do) …….I’ll think of you on the 18th…xxxxxJeff(Oxford England)

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] hi everyone
Date: March 14, 2005 at 2:41:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I ask that all subscribers to DrugWar.com behave politely to one another for the next few days, as I’m going to be off line in LA (first time ever- I can’t sleep I’m so nervous about traveling, which means I’ve changed a bit since my younger days, I think) doing this tv pilot thing. To everyone else on the ibogaine list I simply say, “hi there.”
So please, continue overloading my box with interesting, informative, depressing, encouraging, etc messages pertaining to anything at all related to drugs legal and non, and to the war on some drugs and users and the producers thereof- I will read them all when I get back.
;-))
Have a great week all, and wish me luck please.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] P.S:
Date: March 13, 2005 at 11:34:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well… it is “the paper of record,” eh?  These minute details matter
to The Archive.

But enough with the quibbling over ego-stakes.  Where’s your Letter
from a “Navajo” (Dine) Jail Dana?

love, rachel

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,(Jason)
Date: March 13, 2005 at 11:07:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jason,

Jasen here, how are ya mate?Thats a cool name you have there dude.

Keeping clean,.Mmmm, one of the biggest things for me was not to be
around people who were using. As much as I may have loved some of them
I knew that I could not be there with them,..not yet anyway.

Nutrients and good food makes my mind strong. Sugar as crazy as it sounds
is huge for me,..if I eat refined sugar it really messes with how I feel.

I eat fruit of course,..this is not the sugar I mean. It is like when I eat
natural
foods,.organic foods, it seems to make my body vibrate at a  frequency that
enables me to be stronger.Of course not everything I eat is organic, just as
much as I can.

Massage has also helped me in a big way. Taking anti addiction herbs helps
me.

Also,…loving,…and allowing myself to be loved fills me.

This list is and has been huge for me, thanks guys.

Exercising is also a biggie,..I feel the difference when I exercise and when
I don’t.

Flirting and women,..WOW what have I been missing,..I mean I have
always flirted and loved women, but not like this, it feels so much more
alive now.

Of course pot has helped a lot, especially when I first got home aaand
I will say again food and nutrients.

I started this email a week or so ago, better finish and send it.

love Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:30 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,

Re: keeping clean, I have nothing to do with it but
as a Reader I would like to hear what EVERYONE has to
say, especially YOU dear reader.

“Put Something With Something And Make Something.”
-the D.O.C.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more
Date: March 13, 2005 at 9:23:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron ,yes we did wyamine,my friends shot it up somehow ,but i just did it orally ,yuck!havent thought of that in a long while

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
ever do wyamene nose inhalers? like a tube of lipstick or vicks inhalers.
roll of cotton inside hard plastic tube, .65 cents in ’66 at any drug store.
you broke the plastic and got the roll of cotton which was saturated with
benzedrine and a warning paper like in a fortune cookie.
it cautioned that a denaturant had been added that made it look ominous. one
cut the cotton in pieces and ate it. kept you up three days and you smelled
like eucalyptus the whole time. pulled of the shelves around ’68. my friend
soaked the cotton in lighter fluid and claimed he could see the subtle
distinction between the clarity of liquids that floated to the top of a
glass and sucked them off with a syringe. he died in ’78 in houston ,
having escaped prison while doing time , copping an alias and doing more
time and escaping again from another state pen. shot himself robbing a drug
store in houston and his homies left him bleeding to death on the sidewalk.
people say addicts are weak… that’s wrong…they are too strong and keep
going long after regular folks quit. it’s a bad way to live and death is
often a relief. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

> Hey shelley,
>
> Are they still stealing farmer’s fertilizer/materials
> down there? I heard about it on the news awhile back.
> A few dudes had gotten busted trying to lift some of
> the materials they needed for their labs.
>
> There have been cases of labs blowing up here too.
> Usually the labs are located in trailers, so if you
> can imagine a charge of dynamite exploding inside a
> tin can, you probably have a pretty good idea of what
> it would look like.
>
> I repeat: Crystal Meth…WORST DRUG EVER…
>
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
> Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
> http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
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>

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more
Date: March 13, 2005 at 8:32:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ever do wyamene nose inhalers?  like a tube of lipstick or vicks inhalers. roll of cotton inside hard plastic tube, .65 cents in ’66 at any drug store. you broke the plastic and got the roll of cotton which was saturated with benzedrine and a warning paper like in a fortune cookie.
it cautioned that a denaturant had been added that made it look ominous. one cut the cotton in pieces and ate it.  kept you up three days and you smelled like eucalyptus the whole time.  pulled of the shelves around ’68. my friend soaked the cotton in lighter fluid and claimed he could see the subtle distinction between the clarity of liquids that floated to the top of a glass and sucked them off with a syringe.  he died in ’78 in houston , having escaped prison while doing time  , copping an alias and doing more time and escaping again from another state pen.  shot himself robbing a drug store in houston and his homies left him bleeding to death on the sidewalk. people say addicts are weak… that’s wrong…they are too strong and keep going long after regular folks quit.  it’s a bad way to live and death is often a relief. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Hey shelley,

Are they still stealing farmer’s fertilizer/materials
down there?  I heard about it on the news awhile back.
A few dudes had gotten busted trying to lift some of
the materials they needed for their labs.

There have been cases of labs blowing up here too.
Usually the labs are located in trailers, so if you
can imagine a charge of dynamite exploding inside a
tin can, you probably have a pretty good idea of what
it would look like.

I repeat: Crystal Meth…WORST DRUG EVER…

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] P.S:
Date: March 13, 2005 at 2:02:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It turns out they did run the correction for Leff, yesterday, clarifying that I was an early Yippie, not a founding member.

Who cares?

Not my correction, though.

Dana/cnw

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 13, 2005 at 12:47:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 10, 2005, at 11:43 PM, Lorenzo wrote:

What is interesting to me is how that writer from the NY Times puts Patrick into so many pages of his book, every time Dana Beal has a parking ticket it makes it into the NY Times, Dana’s building was featured on the front page of one of their issues in the past in 2004 I think.

At same time they will not do story about ibogaine. Ibogaine is cut out of interviews. Great country America.

Cheers
Lorenzo

Yeah, I’m really pissed about them taking out ibogaine all the time, and leaving the pot. I call it the Cheech-and-Chonging of the movement. John Leland said he’d have to do a whole article on whether Ibogaine works or not to even include a mention. But he prefers the romance of heroin anyway.

The TIMES had the temerity to call up because Sam Leff (a fringe follower of Abbie Hoffman) objected that I wasn’t at the founding meeting of Yippie on Dec. 31, 1967, (I was in jail) and didn’t join until Jan 8, ’68. When the fact-checker realized the dispute was over 8 days, he dropped it. Here’s what I wrote Stew Albert:

“Mr. Beal, a passenger, was observed eating what Mr. Beal said was marijuana. ”

I NEVER said there was ANY marijuana.

To the cop, I said, “What marijuana?”

To Kolb, I said: “I said, “What marijuana?” But hypothetically, if there had been any marijuana, there are other perfectly good reasons to eat it besides tampering with evidence. What if you didn’t want to waste perfectly good marijuana?

I guess he liked that line so much he left out the qualifier.

BTW, I’ve been checking, and nobody can even remember Sam Leff being involved with Yippie prior to the Miami convention protests. Abbie used to call Sam and Wally the “boring Leffs.” And Jack, who actually donated Abbie’s papers to the University of Connecticutt at Storrs, says Sam WAS NOT Abbie’s cousin (which he has sometimes claimed to be), and wasn’t even around in 68, 69 and 70, when the Conspiracy trial concluded.

He did help Abbie out when he was underground–precisely because he had no extensive prior ties so the cops wouldn’t be watching him. I remember Leff coming and telling me in late 78 that Abbie wouldn’t be involved with the Yippies in the future–so firm was our lock on Yippie at the time! He then proceeded to get in a big fight with Ben Masel, telling Ben he could never equal anything Abbie had done. Masel went on to take over the state capitol bldg in Madison during an anti-aparthied protest in 1985, and later did marches with 30,000 people. So our offense was feeling that Yippie was not yet exhausted as a political idiom, while Sam wanted to shut it down.

Ben did crank his house, which is the reason he’s still pissed off. But Ben was under 30. Sam was over 30.  Hotheaded youth…

Anyway, they dropped the whole matter rather than print a retraction. So they were willing to do a correction for Leff, but not me. I’m also pissed at Krassner and Bob Fass for playing along with Leff. Stew Albert, OTOH, is a supporter–pointing out that many of the actions identified with Yippie, such as throwing money on the stock exchange, or the levitation of the Pentagon, happened BEFORE the name was even invented.

Then again, subsequent to writing the above, I found Leff was actually involved the the YIP-in at Grand Central Station–the action where some one pulled the hands off the clock, etc. Which makes sense,  since the event was mainly promoted on WBAI Radio Unnameable (Fass’s show).

Dana/cnw

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more
Date: March 13, 2005 at 12:00:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i feel that way as well but you should’ve seen the looks  on their faces when they threw down on me and i read the news…
wishing you the peaceful path i seek..
—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:25 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more

Thats like total sacrilege  How can you do that to an original 4/10.  I have one that I got from my grandad.  Its very special and I think of him every time I go down to the river with my dogs rabbit shooting,  (Not that I’m a good shot  but we enjoy the walking and time out).   If  the rabbit falls down I’m probably more surprised that it.  Allison.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 13 March 2005 2:29:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more

interesting having survived the lower east side and alphabet city when i ran
away from home in ’65 @17. i had veins then, wonder where they all went? i
remember throwing an exceptionally dull and heavy gauge spike away on st.
marks. across from the electric circus only to go back and get it out of the
gutter the next day when my loaded works stalled. it had a black plastic
bottom so it blended w/ the street, camouflaged….wish i could write your
book with you but i don’t know you and your grammatical prowess would
embarrass me as it has now. good snippet and thanks, ron. oh, it was good
crank, the kind that made you take a dump right away, left no residue on
foil when one lit a match under it and made me preface every sentence with”i
know what you’re gonna tell me is important, but let me tell you this
first”. unfortunately i still suffer and it’s not been any fun since 1970
when i realized i was on a mission , 24/7 and there was no movement or
camaraderie and everyone carried a piece…mine was a sawed off single
barrel .410 painted white which i kept rolled up in the month old village
voice. the bro’s, homies and white wanna bees like myself seldom looked
there as they surreptitiously patted you down by bumping into you as you
went to the man or the all too frequent take off……
—– Original Message —–
From: “Todd Morgan” <sovntm@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

> Veeerry compelling story!
>
> Please find the time/energy/motivation to develope it.
> When you do ……email me.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
>
>
>
>
> — Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> >It was frightening to see him shaving off his
>> eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…<
>>
>> I’ve never ever been able to quite believe that the
>> cocaine bugs I suffered
>> with during the last year of my using IV cocaine on
>> a regular basis were
>> really not real (as you’ll see in the following
>> excerpt and editor’s note
>> following my message here). Knowing how many
>> parasites we human beings have
>> really and truely living on our bodies, my theory
>> was always, well, I know
>> how hard I freak out when shooting most if not all
>> of a $20 bag of cocaine-
>> so imagine how hard it must hit those teeny tiny
>> parasites who lives on my
>> blood and cellular detritus. When tweaking out, my
>> nerves were super
>> sensitized, so could it be that I really was feeling
>> and even catching the
>> barest of glimpses of real, honest to goodness bugs,
>> bugs that other
>> couldn’t or WOULDN’T see due to putting my, or your
>> ex’s, bug trip down to
>> our drug abuse hallucinations instead of actual
>> results of using the drugs
>> and feeling the results in the parasites living on
>> ours and everyone’s
>> bodies.
>> Just a theory of course. I could of course
>> really have just been
>> imaginging those bugs, but darn it, I still just
>> don’t know.
>> ;-))
>>
>> The following excerpt is from a story I published in
>> Under the Influence-
>> the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, taken from my own
>> book Something in the
>> Way, the still as yet unpublished book that is going
>> to be a best seller and
>> make me millions…of something, probably hate mail
>> from prohibitionist
>> maniacs.
>>
>> —–
>>
>> Appendix A-
>>
>> [TITLE] Haircut:
>> Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life
>>
>> [BYLINE] By Preston Peet
>>
>> —–
>>
>> [INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book
>> full of hard journalism
>> and social commentary. With what you glean from this
>> book is it hoped that
>> you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda
>> driving the War on Some
>> Drugs and Users and vote for those representatives
>> who will end the War. Now
>> it’s time to take a look at the War from a more
>> personal viewpoint.
>>
>> The following story is from an unpublished
>> manuscript of mine titled
>> Something in the Way, relating my own experiences
>> strung out on illegal
>> street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a
>> junkie living on the streets
>> under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting
>> myself as far from my
>> emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of
>> hard drugs for years, I’d
>> first been introduced to opiates during extensive
>> medical procedures after a
>> serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to
>> explain the reasons for
>> getting high to police and prohibitionists though,
>> because they did not want
>> to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While
>> the way I used to get
>> high was much of the time extremely
>> self-destructive, things usually just
>> got worse once the police got involved.
>>
>> In this particular story, the police were trying to
>> do what they thought was
>> the right thing, but for me it was not the right
>> thing, it merely gave me
>> something else to feel guilty over and stress about
>> when it did not work
>> out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and
>> users in this country does
>> not differentiate between individual users and their
>> circumstances. A
>> treatment modality that works well for one person
>> might and often does only
>> make matters worse for the next. For that matter,
>> not everyone who uses or
>> even abuses drugs is best served by stopping
>> altogether, which is the
>> rationale behind long-term methadone maintenance for
>> instance. It’s time to
>> stop chasing after the people who find whatever it
>> is they need in currently
>> illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to
>> reduce what harms can and do
>> sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user
>> and to society at large.
>> In the end, without prohibition the following story
>> simply wouldn’t happen.
>>
>> On another note, there is some debate about the
>> reality of the “coke bugs”
>> mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers
>> insisting, even years
>> after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs
>> were and are real, that
>> they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself
>> reserve judgment,
>> preferring these days to verbally debate the issue
>> rather than conduct any
>> more experiments.
>>
>> Snip-
>>
>> “Jump in, kid,” says the cop on the passenger side.
>> Slamming the door shut
>> behind me, the cop jumps back in, and we begin to
>> roll. I speak up.
>> “Excuse me. Do you guys mind if we stop at a
>> bathroom somewhere so I can,
>> uh, have a seat for a few minutes before we get
>> there?” The two cops glance
>> at one another for a second, then the driver
>> suggests a park toilet, since
>> we’re still inside the 72nd Street entrance. The
>> other cop agrees, so we
>> drive over to the Sheep’s Meadow toilets. Pulling to
>> a stop outside the
>> restroom, the cop opens the side door again. As I
>> climb out, the cop stops
>> me.
>> “Listen. If you’ve got anything, oh, I don’t know,
>> that you shouldn’t have,
>> anything illegal, you should dump it here, OK? I
>> don’t want to have to
>> arrest you if they find something at the program,
>> and they will search your
>> stuff, very thoroughly.” I stare at him for a
>> moment, then smile.
>> “Alright. You got it.” I walk into the bathroom.
>> As with most park toilets anywhere in the world,
>> these are disgusting. It’s
>> hard to spend any time in here at all because of the
>> stench, but I have a
>> mission. I have to get rid of my drugs. I’m going
>> clean, and don’t want to
>> do it in jail. Besides, I don’t want to waste the
>> stuff I have, and this
>> will probably be my last chance to inject anything
>> into myself. I enter one
>> of the two stalls, hanging my overcoat over the
>> stall door. I quickly dig
>> from my pocket the cellophane, taken from a Marlboro
>> pack, inside of which
>> are a couple packets of both coke and dope, keeping
>> dry. I set a cooker on
>> the toilet paper dispenser, a silver rectangular box
>> screwed onto the wall
>> of the stall like a night table, a perfect platform
>> for preparing my poison.
>> Opening the one new packet of coke, I dump the whole
>> thing into the cooker,
>> a fifteen-dollar bag, then wad up the yellow paper
>> without licking it and
>> toss it in the toilet. Some people like that taste,
>> but not me, having grown
>> tired over the years of that taste and numbness in
>> my mouth. Only on the
>> back of my sinuses after a shot, when I can more
>> smell it in my head than
>> taste it on my tongue do I like the taste at all. I
>> fold up the other,
>> partially filled packet of cocaine, containing only
>> a tiny bit, deciding to
>> smuggle it into the facility with me. It’s the same
>> with the dope. I save a
>> little in the bottom of the bag I dump in the cooker
>> with the coke, and fold
>> up two packets of dope remnants for later. It’s a
>> risk, but getting sick is
>> no fucking joke. To me it’s worth it to try. I take
>> one of the least used
>> rigs I’ve got, draw up a little water from a small
>> plastic bottle I carry,
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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.

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more
Date: March 13, 2005 at 7:25:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thats like total sacrilege  How can you do that to an original 4/10.  I have one that I got from my grandad.  Its very special and I think of him every time I go down to the river with my dogs rabbit shooting,  (Not that I’m a good shot  but we enjoy the walking and time out).   If  the rabbit falls down I’m probably more surprised that it.  Allison.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Sunday, 13 March 2005 2:29:09 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more

interesting having survived the lower east side and alphabet city when i ran
away from home in ’65 @17. i had veins then, wonder where they all went? i
remember throwing an exceptionally dull and heavy gauge spike away on st.
marks. across from the electric circus only to go back and get it out of the
gutter the next day when my loaded works stalled. it had a black plastic
bottom so it blended w/ the street, camouflaged….wish i could write your
book with you but i don’t know you and your grammatical prowess would
embarrass me as it has now. good snippet and thanks, ron. oh, it was good
crank, the kind that made you take a dump right away, left no residue on
foil when one lit a match under it and made me preface every sentence with”i
know what you’re gonna tell me is important, but let me tell you this
first”. unfortunately i still suffer and it’s not been any fun since 1970
when i realized i was on a mission , 24/7 and there was no movement or
camaraderie and everyone carried a piece…mine was a sawed off single
barrel .410 painted white which i kept rolled up in the month old village
voice. the bro’s, homies and white wanna bees like myself seldom looked
there as they surreptitiously patted you down by bumping into you as you
went to the man or the all too frequent take off……
—– Original Message —–
From: “Todd Morgan” <sovntm@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

> Veeerry compelling story!
>
> Please find the time/energy/motivation to develope it.
> When you do ……email me.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
>
>
>
>
> — Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> >It was frightening to see him shaving off his
>> eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…<
>>
>> I’ve never ever been able to quite believe that the
>> cocaine bugs I suffered
>> with during the last year of my using IV cocaine on
>> a regular basis were
>> really not real (as you’ll see in the following
>> excerpt and editor’s note
>> following my message here). Knowing how many
>> parasites we human beings have
>> really and truely living on our bodies, my theory
>> was always, well, I know
>> how hard I freak out when shooting most if not all
>> of a $20 bag of cocaine-
>> so imagine how hard it must hit those teeny tiny
>> parasites who lives on my
>> blood and cellular detritus. When tweaking out, my
>> nerves were super
>> sensitized, so could it be that I really was feeling
>> and even catching the
>> barest of glimpses of real, honest to goodness bugs,
>> bugs that other
>> couldn’t or WOULDN’T see due to putting my, or your
>> ex’s, bug trip down to
>> our drug abuse hallucinations instead of actual
>> results of using the drugs
>> and feeling the results in the parasites living on
>> ours and everyone’s
>> bodies.
>> Just a theory of course. I could of course
>> really have just been
>> imaginging those bugs, but darn it, I still just
>> don’t know.
>> ;-))
>>
>> The following excerpt is from a story I published in
>> Under the Influence-
>> the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, taken from my own
>> book Something in the
>> Way, the still as yet unpublished book that is going
>> to be a best seller and
>> make me millions…of something, probably hate mail
>> from prohibitionist
>> maniacs.
>>
>> —–
>>
>> Appendix A-
>>
>> [TITLE] Haircut:
>> Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life
>>
>> [BYLINE] By Preston Peet
>>
>> —–
>>
>> [INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book
>> full of hard journalism
>> and social commentary. With what you glean from this
>> book is it hoped that
>> you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda
>> driving the War on Some
>> Drugs and Users and vote for those representatives
>> who will end the War. Now
>> it’s time to take a look at the War from a more
>> personal viewpoint.
>>
>> The following story is from an unpublished
>> manuscript of mine titled
>> Something in the Way, relating my own experiences
>> strung out on illegal
>> street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a
>> junkie living on the streets
>> under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting
>> myself as far from my
>> emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of
>> hard drugs for years, I’d
>> first been introduced to opiates during extensive
>> medical procedures after a
>> serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to
>> explain the reasons for
>> getting high to police and prohibitionists though,
>> because they did not want
>> to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While
>> the way I used to get
>> high was much of the time extremely
>> self-destructive, things usually just
>> got worse once the police got involved.
>>
>> In this particular story, the police were trying to
>> do what they thought was
>> the right thing, but for me it was not the right
>> thing, it merely gave me
>> something else to feel guilty over and stress about
>> when it did not work
>> out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and
>> users in this country does
>> not differentiate between individual users and their
>> circumstances. A
>> treatment modality that works well for one person
>> might and often does only
>> make matters worse for the next. For that matter,
>> not everyone who uses or
>> even abuses drugs is best served by stopping
>> altogether, which is the
>> rationale behind long-term methadone maintenance for
>> instance. It’s time to
>> stop chasing after the people who find whatever it
>> is they need in currently
>> illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to
>> reduce what harms can and do
>> sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user
>> and to society at large.
>> In the end, without prohibition the following story
>> simply wouldn’t happen.
>>
>> On another note, there is some debate about the
>> reality of the “coke bugs”
>> mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers
>> insisting, even years
>> after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs
>> were and are real, that
>> they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself
>> reserve judgment,
>> preferring these days to verbally debate the issue
>> rather than conduct any
>> more experiments.
>>
>> Snip-
>>
>> “Jump in, kid,” says the cop on the passenger side.
>> Slamming the door shut
>> behind me, the cop jumps back in, and we begin to
>> roll. I speak up.
>> “Excuse me. Do you guys mind if we stop at a
>> bathroom somewhere so I can,
>> uh, have a seat for a few minutes before we get
>> there?” The two cops glance
>> at one another for a second, then the driver
>> suggests a park toilet, since
>> we’re still inside the 72nd Street entrance. The
>> other cop agrees, so we
>> drive over to the Sheep’s Meadow toilets. Pulling to
>> a stop outside the
>> restroom, the cop opens the side door again. As I
>> climb out, the cop stops
>> me.
>> “Listen. If you’ve got anything, oh, I don’t know,
>> that you shouldn’t have,
>> anything illegal, you should dump it here, OK? I
>> don’t want to have to
>> arrest you if they find something at the program,
>> and they will search your
>> stuff, very thoroughly.” I stare at him for a
>> moment, then smile.
>> “Alright. You got it.” I walk into the bathroom.
>> As with most park toilets anywhere in the world,
>> these are disgusting. It’s
>> hard to spend any time in here at all because of the
>> stench, but I have a
>> mission. I have to get rid of my drugs. I’m going
>> clean, and don’t want to
>> do it in jail. Besides, I don’t want to waste the
>> stuff I have, and this
>> will probably be my last chance to inject anything
>> into myself. I enter one
>> of the two stalls, hanging my overcoat over the
>> stall door. I quickly dig
>> from my pocket the cellophane, taken from a Marlboro
>> pack, inside of which
>> are a couple packets of both coke and dope, keeping
>> dry. I set a cooker on
>> the toilet paper dispenser, a silver rectangular box
>> screwed onto the wall
>> of the stall like a night table, a perfect platform
>> for preparing my poison.
>> Opening the one new packet of coke, I dump the whole
>> thing into the cooker,
>> a fifteen-dollar bag, then wad up the yellow paper
>> without licking it and
>> toss it in the toilet. Some people like that taste,
>> but not me, having grown
>> tired over the years of that taste and numbness in
>> my mouth. Only on the
>> back of my sinuses after a shot, when I can more
>> smell it in my head than
>> taste it on my tongue do I like the taste at all. I
>> fold up the other,
>> partially filled packet of cocaine, containing only
>> a tiny bit, deciding to
>> smuggle it into the facility with me. It’s the same
>> with the dope. I save a
>> little in the bottom of the bag I dump in the cooker
>> with the coke, and fold
>> up two packets of dope remnants for later. It’s a
>> risk, but getting sick is
>> no fucking joke. To me it’s worth it to try. I take
>> one of the least used
>> rigs I’ve got, draw up a little water from a small
>> plastic bottle I carry,
>>
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 12, 2005 at 9:37:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

for some reason i never could use just one of anything, so the problem is me rd
—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a
family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than
blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

oh, i certainly agree with that; and i didn’t mean to sound as if i was
demonising meth. however, some drugs present the user with more risks than
others, and meth is one of the riskier drugs out there. while demonising a
drug doesn’t help anyone, neither does down-playing its dangers.

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years,
and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you start
out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going
to
know you are full of shit.

again, i didn’t mean to make meth out as a “monstrous thing”, but it can
definately be a dangerous thing. as i said in my original post, the
majority of meth users won’t experience psychosis; but it is a real risk
of meth use that can be profoundly problematic for people who do
experience it.

and while the percentage of meth users who experience psychosis is a
minority, it is well documented that chronic meth use can cause
debilitating neurocognitive deficits (such as memory loss and attentional
problems) in many chronic users.

i’m all for people making their own choices as to what they put in their
bodies, but i also believe people should be able to make informed choices;
they should be aware of what could conceivably happen if they choose to
use a given drug. as i said in my presentation at the conference recently,
it’s very unfortunate that the government uses scare tacticts to try to
persuade people from taking drugs, because when a drug does really have
some scary effects, like meth, people tend not to believe it.

How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information,
and
not just more drug propaganda?

What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme
dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended
up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When
patients
got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
doses didn’t cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also
occuring.

My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more authoritative
studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don’t know
of them.

a quick search on pubmed for “methamphetamine psychosis” turned up 185
references. for example, here’s two neuroimaging studies:

Iyo M, Sekine Y, Mori N. (2004). Neuromechanism of developing
methamphetamine psychosis: a neuroimaging study. Ann N Y Acad Sci, 288-95.

The long-term use of methamphetamine (MAP) induces a psychotic state,
called MAP psychosis. To understand the neuromechanisms of the persistent
psychosis, we used SPECT, MR spectroscopy (MRS), and PET on the MAP users.
The SPECT study showed a high incidence of multiple patchy deficits in
cerebral blood flow among the users. The MRS study MAP users showed a
significantly reduced ratio of creatine plus phosphocreatine (Cr +
PCr)/choline-containing compounds (Cho) in the brain compared with the
healthy control subjects. In addition, the reduction in the ratio of Cr +
PCr/Cho was significantly correlated with the duration of MAP use and with
the severity of residual psychiatric symptoms. PET revealed no significant
differences between the ex-users of MAP and the healthy controls in the
density of striatal dopamine D2 receptors. On the other hand, the density
of dopamine transporter in the nucleus accumbens and caudate/putamen in
the MAP users was significantly less compared with the controls. This
reduction was significantly correlated with the length of use and severity
of psychotic symptoms. These findings suggest that long-term use of MAP
causes abnormal cerebral blood flow patterns, reduction of brain dopamine
transporter density, and metabolite alteration, which may be closely
related to a susceptibility to MAP psychosis.

Sekine Y, Minabe Y, Ouchi Y, Takei N, Iyo M, Nakamura K, Suzuki K, Tsukada
H, Okada H, Yoshikawa E, Futatsubashi M, Mori N. (2003). Association of
dopamine transporter loss in the orbitofrontal and dorsolateral prefrontal
cortices with methamphetamine-related psychiatric symptoms. Am J
Psychiatry, 160, 1699-701.

The authors examined dopamine transporter density in the orbitofrontal
cortex, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, and amygdala in methamphetamine
users and assessed the relationship of these measures to the subjects’
clinical characteristics. METHOD: Positron emission tomography with
[(11)C]WIN 35,428 was used to examine the regions of interest in 11
methamphetamine users and nine healthy comparison subjects. Psychiatric
symptoms were evaluated with the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale. RESULTS:
Dopamine transporter density in the three regions studied was
significantly lower in the methamphetamine users than in the comparison
subjects. The lower dopamine transporter density in the orbitofrontal and
dorsolateral prefrontal cortex was significantly correlated with the
duration of methamphetamine use and the severity of psychiatric symptoms.
CONCLUSIONS: Chronic methamphetamine use may cause dopamine transporter
reduction in the orbitofrontal cortex, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, and
amygdala in the brain. Psychiatric symptoms in methamphetamine users may
be attributable to the decrease in dopamine transporter density in the
orbitofrontal cortex and the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.

I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw
others
display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
heavily with much sleep deprivation.

I’m happy to hear that you didn’t suffer from some of meth’s more severe
effects, but many meth users are not so lucky.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but
(1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is
concerned.

Researchers have been studying meth’s effects for decades now, and while
it is possible that they have missed some confounding variables that could
contribute to things like psychosis, it’s pretty unlikely. Schizophrenia
is pretty easy to spot, and besides that, methamphetamine psychosis
differs from schizophrenic psychosis in a number of fundamental ways. It’s
also unlikely that other drugs are responsible; stimulant-related
psychosis is pretty distinct from the psychosis that can result from
psychedelics or dissociative anaesthetics.

Frankly, I don’t understand how you could perceive such information as
useless. People should be aware of the risks they are taking when they
choose to ingest a given substance. Heroin users should be aware that
there is a very real risk of death by respiratory depression if they take
too much, even though the majority of heroin users don’t die. Likewise,
methapmhetamine users should be aware of the possibility of experiencing
hallucinations and delusions, and probably more importantly, that they
could end up causing themselves signficant brain damage, even if there’s a
substantial number of meth users who don’t suffer these effects.

To use an analogy.. most people who ride in automobiles don’t end up dying
in car crashes, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to go riding around
without a seat belt.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 12, 2005 at 9:34:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

if patrick knows the guy rolling the logs on this wheel, his only trouble may be that he’s tragically hip. i got no beef with that as my life unravels and career disappears b/c i can’t keep it together at 55 rd wishing all the peaceful path i seek
—– Original Message —– From: “Lorenzo” <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet

What is interesting to me is how that writer from the NY Times puts Patrick into so many pages of his book, every time Dana Beal has a parking ticket it makes it into the NY Times, Dana’s building was featured on the front page of one of their issues in the past in 2004 I think.

At same time they will not do story about ibogaine. Ibogaine is cut out of interviews. Great country America.

Cheers
Lorenzo

— On Thu 03/10, Preston Peet < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com > wrote:
From: Preston Peet [mailto: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:29:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet

Do you run up and down the<br>halls in school telling girls “I know Patrick and I’m<br>on Mindvox with drug addicts!” <<br><br>I don’t know about Vector, but I live across the street from an  <br>elementary school (where I also vote when there are elections), one  <br>with the oldest playground in Manhattan on it’s grounds, right across  <br>from and below my window (thrilling V to no end when spring/summer hit  <br>and there are hundreds of screaming children playing outside, letting  <br>off steam after being cooped up “studying” or what it is they’re doing <br>these days in public schools)- and I go running through its halls stark  <br>naked, screaming not only “I know Patrick and I’m on Mindvox with drug  <br>addicts,” but also purely nonsensicle stuff too, like, <br>”ARGGHHHJ@SA(TQW$JTAKLMSDRYJAE”$PTUOJ” and “OHILAKMLKNJDG(*YWEIUHT <br>LSKMNDF GIUYWPE:OitHLKNG!!”<br>

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 12, 2005 at 9:27:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i went to a drug store across the street from kamlett’s office one day.  the druggist said nice things about this guy kamlett and his help of those in need. for some rreason, i believed him although i’ve never met the man, kamlett or the pharmacist, nor did i raise the issue.  i was just trashing guys like me when he said, “hey, go see the  man and see for yourself.” i should and will soon. don’t know about the other two. ron, wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: MargoK2004@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet

Vector you seem to have some issues with Patrick, Dr Mash and Dr Kamlet in reguards to money. I know for a fact that Patrick does all he can to help many people and the same applies for Dr Kamlet and Dr Mash..
If someone in lucky enough to find a job they love and make money doing it is a great thing. Most people should be so lucky.
Both Dr Mash and Dr Kamlet have helped and treated people for free. I know many people who would not be alive to if not for them.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query(w/ add ons)
Date: March 12, 2005 at 9:07:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well said my man (apostrophe x’s000). ron, the lurker(or was it quotation marks x’s1000?) -:) there’s some good folks here bill, stick around and read your 100 emails a day. that grammaritical refererence may have been intendend for “the garden”   i stay so confused and have never done ibo…chemical imbalance according to a gentle m.d. on the list.  gotta shake it and pawn some stuff and then find a connection . collective prayer works, so feel free……to free me, thanks and wishing the rest a peaceful path  cuz
mine bites
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 4:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Bill Eichman wrote >A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.<

Another big LOL!
Bill, you’re new here, right? This list is chock full of folk who insist that some drugs are just evil, and should never be used by anyone ever and that ibogaine is needed to get those people to stop what they’re doing right now because without it their lives are worth little to nothing at all- and with others who are exactly the opposite. What ties us all in together is our interest in ibogaine for whatever reason, or so I myself think about this list and its subscribers and participants.
Just as with any group of people, the differences of opinion here range widely and erratically all across the board, with some of us, like me, insisting that drugs aren’t the real problem, that prohibition is, and others insisting that there isn’t anything good about any drugs at all (except of course ibogaine and sometimes marijuana and even that’s debatable), and others who fall anywhere in between these extremes.

Bill also asked and noted >How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?
What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation.<

You are totally and completely correct to point this out- I mean, take into consideration the number of US figher pilots who use methamphetamines on a daily basis and yet, no troubles whatsoever, and they’re even using the stuff to do their jobs BETTER- imagine that, meth makes it easier to do one’s job. Huh. Of course, after long hours of flying about in a big fast warmachine with little sleep, sometimes accidents do happen, as was the case in Afghanistan a couple years back when some US pilots bombed the shit out of some Canadian troops on the ground while under the influence of both methamphetamines AND lack of sleep. Apparently anyway.
It behooves us all to remember that despite many of our own horrific experiences while abusing hard drugs, and the many stories we have most of us heard and seen lived out by ourselves and by others, not everyone puts themselves through such hell and many if not most people use their drugs both hard and soft, legal and not-so-legal, rationally and with total control, always. Weird how that works, but it’s the reality of things as near as I can tell from my well researched position here.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia,<

Personally? I don’t drink and haven’t in some 20 years or so and wasn’t when this story I posted about the cocaine-influenced hallucinating took place- having been drunk in these last 20 years about, oh, twice, maybe three times total. Yes, there were other drugs involved (heroin in this particular case) but as you yourself noted about lack of sleeping’s effects on folk, an extreme lack of sleep often played a part in my overall experiences, as I was running the streets and staying awake up to five days in a row, over and over and over again, running and shooting and running and shooting until I couldn’t possibly stay awake and score and scam any more money no matter how much cocaine I shot and would finally collapse. But I’m certainly NOT schizophrenic, except under the influence of LOTS of cocaine- and even then I wouldn’t call myself schizophrenic, only manic and somewhat insane- and this is JUST ME I’m talking about.

and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.<

I didn’t post it for it’s “usefulness” Bill, and I’m not sure why you feel “these stories” should have to be useful at all. I posted it as an entertaining misadventure tale I thought other people experienced with many other illegal drugs might enjoy reading and learning about ONE PERSON’S EXPERIENCES- mine.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years, and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you start out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going to
know you are full of shit.

It’s not likely to help Dana’s aquaintance stop using.

A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.

just for the record…methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations and
other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions as
a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)

while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don’t experience
such effects, it isn’t just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them);

How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?

What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When patients
got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
doses didn’t cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also occuring.

My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more authoritative
studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don’t know
of them.

I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw others
display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
heavily with much sleep deprivation.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query and more
Date: March 12, 2005 at 8:28:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

interesting having survived the lower east side and alphabet city when i ran away from home in ’65 @17. i had veins then, wonder where they all went?  i remember throwing an exceptionally dull and heavy gauge spike away on st. marks. across from the electric circus only to go back and get it out of the gutter the next day when my loaded works stalled. it had a black plastic bottom so it blended w/ the street, camouflaged….wish i could write your book with you but i don’t know you and your grammatical prowess would embarrass me as it has now.  good snippet and thanks, ron.  oh, it was good crank, the kind that made you take a dump right away, left no residue on foil when one lit a match under it and made me preface every sentence with”i know what you’re gonna tell me is important, but let me tell you this first”. unfortunately i still suffer and it’s not been any fun since 1970 when i realized i was on a mission , 24/7 and there was no movement or camaraderie and everyone carried a piece…mine was a sawed off single barrel .410 painted white which i kept rolled up in the month old village voice. the bro’s, homies and white wanna bees like myself seldom looked there as they surreptitiously patted you down by bumping into you as you went to the man or the all too frequent take off……
—– Original Message —– From: “Todd Morgan” <sovntm@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Veeerry compelling story!

Please find the time/energy/motivation to develope it.
When you do ……email me.

Thanks,
Todd

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>It was frightening to see him shaving off his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…<

I’ve never ever been able to quite believe that the
cocaine bugs I suffered
with during the last year of my using IV cocaine on
a regular basis were
really not real (as you’ll see in the following
excerpt and editor’s note
following my message here). Knowing how many
parasites we human beings have
really and truely living on our bodies, my theory
was always, well, I know
how hard I freak out when shooting most if not all
of a $20 bag of cocaine-
so imagine how hard it must hit those teeny tiny
parasites who lives on my
blood and cellular detritus. When tweaking out, my
nerves were super
sensitized, so could it be that I really was feeling
and even catching the
barest of glimpses of real, honest to goodness bugs,
bugs that other
couldn’t or WOULDN’T see due to putting my, or your
ex’s, bug trip down to
our drug abuse hallucinations instead of actual
results of using the drugs
and feeling the results in the parasites living on
ours and everyone’s
bodies.
Just a theory of course. I could of course
really have just been
imaginging those bugs, but darn it, I still just
don’t know.
;-))

The following excerpt is from a story I published in
Under the Influence-
the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, taken from my own
book Something in the
Way, the still as yet unpublished book that is going
to be a best seller and
make me millions…of something, probably hate mail
from prohibitionist
maniacs.

—–

Appendix A-

[TITLE] Haircut:
Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life

[BYLINE] By Preston Peet

—–

[INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book
full of hard journalism
and social commentary. With what you glean from this
book is it hoped that
you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda
driving the War on Some
Drugs and Users and vote for those representatives
who will end the War. Now
it’s time to take a look at the War from a more
personal viewpoint.

The following story is from an unpublished
manuscript of mine titled
Something in the Way, relating my own experiences
strung out on illegal
street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a
junkie living on the streets
under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting
myself as far from my
emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of
hard drugs for years, I’d
first been introduced to opiates during extensive
medical procedures after a
serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to
explain the reasons for
getting high to police and prohibitionists though,
because they did not want
to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While
the way I used to get
high was much of the time extremely
self-destructive, things usually just
got worse once the police got involved.

In this particular story, the police were trying to
do what they thought was
the right thing, but for me it was not the right
thing, it merely gave me
something else to feel guilty over and stress about
when it did not work
out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and
users in this country does
not differentiate between individual users and their
circumstances. A
treatment modality that works well for one person
might and often does only
make matters worse for the next. For that matter,
not everyone who uses or
even abuses drugs is best served by stopping
altogether, which is the
rationale behind long-term methadone maintenance for
instance. It’s time to
stop chasing after the people who find whatever it
is they need in currently
illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to
reduce what harms can and do
sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user
and to society at large.
In the end, without prohibition the following story
simply wouldn’t happen.

On another note, there is some debate about the
reality of the “coke bugs”
mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers
insisting, even years
after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs
were and are real, that
they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself
reserve judgment,
preferring these days to verbally debate the issue
rather than conduct any
more experiments.

Snip-

“Jump in, kid,” says the cop on the passenger side.
Slamming the door shut
behind me, the cop jumps back in, and we begin to
roll. I speak up.
“Excuse me. Do you guys mind if we stop at a
bathroom somewhere so I can,
uh, have a seat for a few minutes before we get
there?” The two cops glance
at one another for a second, then the driver
suggests a park toilet, since
we’re still inside the 72nd Street entrance. The
other cop agrees, so we
drive over to the Sheep’s Meadow toilets. Pulling to
a stop outside the
restroom, the cop opens the side door again. As I
climb out, the cop stops
me.
“Listen. If you’ve got anything, oh, I don’t know,
that you shouldn’t have,
anything illegal, you should dump it here, OK? I
don’t want to have to
arrest you if they find something at the program,
and they will search your
stuff, very thoroughly.” I stare at him for a
moment, then smile.
“Alright. You got it.” I walk into the bathroom.
As with most park toilets anywhere in the world,
these are disgusting. It’s
hard to spend any time in here at all because of the
stench, but I have a
mission. I have to get rid of my drugs. I’m going
clean, and don’t want to
do it in jail. Besides, I don’t want to waste the
stuff I have, and this
will probably be my last chance to inject anything
into myself. I enter one
of the two stalls, hanging my overcoat over the
stall door. I quickly dig
from my pocket the cellophane, taken from a Marlboro
pack, inside of which
are a couple packets of both coke and dope, keeping
dry. I set a cooker on
the toilet paper dispenser, a silver rectangular box
screwed onto the wall
of the stall like a night table, a perfect platform
for preparing my poison.
Opening the one new packet of coke, I dump the whole
thing into the cooker,
a fifteen-dollar bag, then wad up the yellow paper
without licking it and
toss it in the toilet. Some people like that taste,
but not me, having grown
tired over the years of that taste and numbness in
my mouth. Only on the
back of my sinuses after a shot, when I can more
smell it in my head than
taste it on my tongue do I like the taste at all. I
fold up the other,
partially filled packet of cocaine, containing only
a tiny bit, deciding to
smuggle it into the facility with me. It’s the same
with the dope. I save a
little in the bottom of the bag I dump in the cooker
with the coke, and fold
up two packets of dope remnants for later. It’s a
risk, but getting sick is
no fucking joke. To me it’s worth it to try. I take
one of the least used
rigs I’ve got, draw up a little water from a small
plastic bottle I carry,

=== message truncated ===

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 12, 2005 at 12:30:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did not stay long. I was in and out a lot. You can only hear so much of the same shit before you start to go crazy. Rachel were you at the one in New Orleans as well?

Margo

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 12, 2005 at 9:39:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I bet you did, especially after losing circulation to that same
geography sitting in those chairs for so long!

At least it wasn’t in Minnesota, where silk long johns become a
permanent second layer from about October to April.  Speaking of that
great tundra, what does Hazelden think of Ibogaine treatments I
wonder?

Anyway, I think we may have passed each other while you were exiting
and we were entering Number Nine postshow the first night.   At the
nexus of four doorways…

love from qns, rachel

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] listening-ekki
Date: March 12, 2005 at 4:53:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 12.03.2005 um 04:21 schrieb Vector Vector:

After you make the CD, you can go here to steal it back for free 😉

http://www.ibogaine.de/

.:vector:.

those blasphemous SUCKERS! i´m ashamed for my compatriots :'(
multi-network clients are anywayz more functional 😉

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] listening-ekki
Date: March 11, 2005 at 10:21:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After you make the CD, you can go here to steal it back for free 😉

http://www.ibogaine.de/

.:vector:.

— Marko <marko@mindvox.com> wrote:
And when you get it together, you should go to Denmark to make the CD

http://www.iboga-records.dk/

Marko

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

everything else was somebody else’s job. Sooner or later there will
be
an Ibogaine
band, you sound like the keyboard player. I hope yall let me play
some
when you
get it together.       Randy

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 11, 2005 at 2:29:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, I was in New York and boy did I freeze my ass off

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 11, 2005 at 1:55:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck with the lassoing Randy.  Maybe you should inquire with Mr.
Kroupa as to the cologne he wears.

Go Margo go go go!  :~)  Were you in NYC with us all last month?

love from Rancho de Queens, rachel

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] listening-ekki
Date: March 11, 2005 at 1:49:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 11.03.2005 um 11:21 schrieb BiscuitBoy714@aol.com:

Ekki, I swear to God every time I read something you post I go right back a
few months ago to how much Ibogaine opened up my head. It’s going on 6 months
now and I still feel that way.
yeah, somehow EVERYTHING is different and its beautiful so far.

Matter of fact 4 days after my treatment I wrote
a song about my experience and I was ranting on the list about having Trent
Rezner play some weird sounding keyboards on it. I jest but really, when I
wrote it I could hear these keyboards going and I never used to think about
production like that, I used to just put down chords and lyrics and figured
everything else was somebody else’s job. Sooner or later there will be an Ibogaine
band, you sound like the keyboard player. I hope yall let me play some when you
get it together.       Randy

Randy, no one can pack excitement and emotions in a few lines of email like you do. accordingly it must be a trip to hear you performing life. did you send the lyrics to this list?
.ekki

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] oops, re new kind of drug war
Date: March 11, 2005 at 9:43:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shoot,
Please excuse my faux pas (sp?), as I meant to snip that new kind of drug war article I just posted in full by accident, as I was not wanting to encroach on copyrights and the like. I’d prefer if folk, when posting make an attempt to do so, excerpt articles and supply a link to the source, but you all know me, I’m a pretty relaxed moderator and will not go to great lengths to enforce many rules here- other than insisting that folk please remember to put a big OT in the subject heading if the post doesn’t pertain in any way, shape or form to drugs legal and not-so-currently-legal, as well as any aspect of the entire war on some drugs and users and producers, etc.
Actually, everyone has been very, very good about that lately, staying on topic I mean, but anyway, carry on all. God I feel scattered- too much pain, too much editing, too much travel plans, too much excitement, too much joy, too much stress, egad, where do I begin?
Anyway, I apologize for stepping on someone’s copyright is the point of this babbling post.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] a new kind of drug war- business week- WOW!
Date: March 11, 2005 at 9:38:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/feb2005/nf20050228_1996_db013.htm

a new kind of drug war

By Christopher Farrell

A New Kind of Drug War
The conventional one has been highly costly, with little return. Making narcotics legal — and very expensive — can reduce addiction and crime

Starting with Richard Nixon, every U.S. President has declared war on drugs. The FBI, CIA, DEA, military, and countless prosecutors have devoted enormous resources to combating narcotics over the past several decades. According to an estimate by Boston University economist Jeffrey A. Miron, federal, state, and local governments have put some $33 billion in resources toward prosecuting the war on drugs in recent years.

How is the return on that investment? Abysmal. The demand for such illegal drugs as marijuana, cocaine, and heroin remains strong. Drug lords and their cartels terrorize nations and local communities. Crime and corruption derived from the illegal drug trade flourish. U.S. prisons are crowded with drug-law offenders — more than 54% of federal prisoners sentenced in 2004 were sent away for breaking drug laws.

REMEMBER PROHIBITION.  Here’s how Harvard University economist and BusinessWeek commentator Robert J. Barro summed up the record of the war on drugs in his paper Getting It Right: Markets and Choices in a Free Society: “The experience with drug enforcement shows that prohibitions of recreational drugs drive up prices, stimulate illegal activity, have only a moderate negative effect on consumption, and impose unacceptable costs in terms of high crime, expansion of prison populations, and deterioration of relations with the foreign countries that supply the outlawed products.”

It’s time to consider a dramatic shift in policy. Instead of the battle cry “war on drugs,” let’s try the mantra “legalization, regulation, and taxation.” We should regulate narcotics just as we do cigarettes and alcohol, restricting sales to minors and imposing steep excise taxes.

Indeed, the model for dealing with alcohol is instructive. Banning alcohol outright in the U.S. was a public policy disaster. Ending Prohibition quickly cleaned up the liquor industry. Gangsters were denied a lucrative source of income, and violent crime associated with the business fell.

FEAR FOR KIDS.  Similarly, legalizing drugs would eliminate much of the profit, corruption, and violence from the trade. The risk of death or impairment from contaminated drugs would decrease. And the shift in focus would free up scarce government resources at a time when the twin demands of an aging population and the war on terror are putting stress on the fiscal purse.

The notion of legalizing drugs isn’t new. Milton Friedman, the dean of conservative economists, argued as long ago as 1972 that “legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement.” Yet the idea never garnered much support beyond a hard core of conservative economists, libertarian idealists, and the occasional hard-pressed mayor and discouraged drug warrior.

The reason: Fear that the post-legalization drop in drug prices would cause the ranks of addicted citizens to soar. For instance, it’s estimated that cocaine sells for 10 to 40 times its free market price. So, even though many practitioners of the dismal science believed the benefits of legalization would far outweigh the cost, many middle-class voters looked at their kids and decided that the risks weren’t worth taking.

PRICE MATTERS.  Yet recent research suggests that legislators and voters should take a close look at legalization. A recent paper by Nobel laureate and University of Chicago economist Gary S. Becker, his faculty peer Kevin M. Murphy, and City University of New York economist Michael Grossman persuasively argues that fighting a war on drugs through legalizing and heavily taxing them could be more effective in curbing consumption than prohibition and prosecution.

Their highly theoretical paper, “The Economic Theory of Illegal Goods: The Case of Drugs,” builds on years of empirical work into the economics of illegal drugs. A key insight of the literature is that price matters — even with addictive substances. Just as lower prices for drugs encourage consumption, higher prices discourage it.

In another research paper, Grossman delved into the impact of price on the consumption of cigarettes, beer, and marijuana from 1975 to 2003. His results are intriguing. He found that the 70% increase in the real price of cigarettes since 1997 (thanks to the tobacco settlement with state attorneys general) explains almost the entire 12% reduction in the cigarette smoking participation rate since then. The 7% increase in the real price of beer from 1990 to 1992 accounts for almost 90% of the 4 percentage point reduction in binge drinking through 2003.

SHOCKING SUM.  Similarly, the increase in the real price of marijuana from 1975 to 1992 accounts for 70% of the usage reduction during that time period. Falling prices contributed some 60% of the increase in substance abuse from 1992 to 1997, and another wild upswing in price powered 60% of the decline in toking during the remaining years under study.

To be sure, addictive drugs are hard to quit. Many people who manage to stop snorting or shooting up spend the rest of their lives fighting the urge to get high. Still, one can’t ignore that price matters even in this market.

Grossman’s results remind me of my bunk mate on the rust-bucket oil tanker we worked on in the late 1970s. He was a grizzled old-timer carrying the scars of years of union organizing. Those times were long gone, as was his habit of smoking several packs a day. One night, between sips of coffee, he told me that he once calculated how much he was spending a year on cigarettes. The sum — a couple of thousand dollars even back then —  shocked him, and he quit.

NO PANACEAS.  The Becker, Murphy, and Grossman analysis suggests that with the addition of a steep excise tax — several hundred percentage points above the cost of wholesale production, for example — the price of cocaine could be greater than the price the fruitless war on drugs supports. It’s possible that consumption would be lower in a high-tax regime than it is in today’s law-enforcement environment.

A high price would give some producers an incentive to go underground as well. But law enforcement could focus its efforts on a much smaller illegal economy. And the tax revenue could go toward funding treatment programs.

Let’s be clear: There are no panaceas and no easy choices here. As a parent, I find the notion of making heroin or cocaine legally available at the corner liquor store frightening. Yet — with the benefit of several decades’ worth of hindsight — legalization, taxation, and regulation appear superior to the current strategy of prohibition and prosecution. There’s just too much human devastation, violent crime, corruption, disease, and wasted time and money embedded in the old approach.

I know that the cost of drug abuse and addiction — including nicotine and alcohol — is already substantial, especially measured by increased health-care expenditures and lower worker productivity. And I have no wish to see the numbers of addicts increase. But there’s the hope that with a carefully crafted new paradigm of legalization, there could be fewer users. That’s positive. There’s nothing positive to be derived from staying with the status quo.

Farrell is contributing economics editor for BusinessWeek. You can also hear him on Minnesota Public Radio’s nationally syndicated finance program, Sound Money, as well as on public radio’s business program Marketplace. Follow his Sound Money column, only on BusinessWeek Online

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Marko <marko@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] listening-ekki
Date: March 11, 2005 at 5:30:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And when you get it together, you should go to Denmark to make the CD

http://www.iboga-records.dk/

Marko

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

everything else was somebody else’s job. Sooner or later there will be an Ibogaine
band, you sound like the keyboard player. I hope yall let me play some when you
get it together.       Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] listening-ekki
Date: March 11, 2005 at 5:21:03 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/10/05 7:47:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< i know some people find the number 72 interesting but i´m not sure
why. i found its 2/3 of 108 which is a magical number in india,
representig 1vishnu, 0brahma, 8shiva or the three states of spiritual
experience i.e. oneness/unity, emptiness and multiplicity/infinity(8
when lying down), also 1^1*2^2*3^3 is 108 and so on.
i wonder what Archimedes Plutonium would say about this 😉
cheers ekki >>
Ekki, I swear to God every time I read something you post I go right back a
few months ago to how much Ibogaine opened up my head. It’s going on 6 months
now and I still feel that way. Matter of fact 4 days after my treatment I wrote
a song about my experience and I was ranting on the list about having Trent
Rezner play some weird sounding keyboards on it. I jest but really, when I
wrote it I could hear these keyboards going and I never used to think about
production like that, I used to just put down chords and lyrics and figured
everything else was somebody else’s job. Sooner or later there will be an Ibogaine
band, you sound like the keyboard player. I hope yall let me play some when you
get it together.       Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 11, 2005 at 4:05:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok what happened here while I was gone ? I have 300 E mails with Patrick’s
and Dr. Kamlet’s name on the header. The first one I looked at said something
about knowing Patrick and being on the Mindvox list could possibly get you laid.
SEEEE I knew you guys were holding out on me. You girls too. Why the hell
didn’t yall tell me a while back that knowing Patrick would get you laid. Idda
been using that even before I met everybody. I would have been lyin’ to all
kinds of girls. Damn, I’m sleeping at the wheel again. Now that I do know Patrick
does that mean that I’ll finally be able to lasso that fine woman I’ve been
chasin’ for a year and a half? Help me out Patrick, I don’t think she really
believes I know you. ‘Course if I introduce her to you I won’t have her anymore,
cuz yu da luv God.    Randy

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 11, 2005 at 2:32:01 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector I am sorry for jumping the gun, but as you have stated a lot of people are always smashing Mash, Kamlet and Patrick concerning money issues….Patrick and Mash are both very dear friends of mine and Kamlet is the love of my life, whom I also happen to work with. I also work for Healing Transitions and Dr Mash. A lot of people say that Mash just does it for the money and I know for a fact that that is not true. If that was the case then after treatment was over she would have no further contact with the patients, but she does. Many people she has helped to not just get clean, but get there lives back, find jobs, get into back into schools and so on, and all this she does on her own time and dollar. As for Dr Kamlet I can’t tell you how many times someone has came to our office wanting to get off drugs but didn’t have the money to do so and he has helped them for free.
I believe in Ibogaine and I hope that one day it will be available for anyone who needs it but in order for that to happen it takes people like Patrick,Mash,Kamlet,Lotsof and anyone else out there that is willing to do the work to make it happen.

From: “Lorenzo” <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 10, 2005 at 11:43:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is interesting to me is how that writer from the NY Times puts Patrick into so many pages of his book, every time Dana Beal has a parking ticket it makes it into the NY Times, Dana’s building was featured on the front page of one of their issues in the past in 2004 I think.

At same time they will not do story about ibogaine. Ibogaine is cut out of interviews. Great country America.

Cheers
Lorenzo

— On Thu 03/10, Preston Peet < ptpeet@nyc.rr.com > wrote:
From: Preston Peet [mailto: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 21:29:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet

Do you run up and down the<br>halls in school telling girls “I know Patrick and I’m<br>on Mindvox with drug addicts!” <<br><br>I don’t know about Vector, but I live across the street from an  <br>elementary school (where I also vote when there are elections), one  <br>with the oldest playground in Manhattan on it’s grounds, right across  <br>from and below my window (thrilling V to no end when spring/summer hit  <br>and there are hundreds of screaming children playing outside, letting  <br>off steam after being cooped up “studying” or what it is they’re doing  <br>these days in public schools)- and I go running through its halls stark  <br>naked, screaming not only “I know Patrick and I’m on Mindvox with drug  <br>addicts,” but also purely nonsensicle stuff too, like,  <br>”ARGGHHHJ@SA(TQW$JTAKLMSDRYJAE”$PTUOJ” and “OHILAKMLKNJDG(*YWEIUHT  <br>LSKMNDF GIUYWPE:OitHLKNG!!”<br>

_______________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 10, 2005 at 9:45:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You should remember to wave a signed copy of the Disinformation Guide
to Drugs in one hand while you’re doing that. That would be the ice
breaker that turns the tide 🙂

Thanks for the sick visual Preston, you’ve made me realize that every
psycho on this list was once one of those kids in kindergarden. Maybe
the reason all of us ended up here was because someone like you, cared
enough to do that.

Thanks! 🙂

Carla just shut up. I was 18 when I first landed here, I have role
models not crushes. 😉

.:vector:.

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Do you run up and down the
halls in school telling girls “I know Patrick and I’m
on Mindvox with drug addicts!” <

I don’t know about Vector, but I live across the street from an
elementary school (where I also vote when there are elections), one
with the oldest playground in Manhattan on it’s grounds, right across

from and below my window (thrilling V to no end when spring/summer
hit
and there are hundreds of screaming children playing outside, letting

off steam after being cooped up “studying” or what it is they’re
doing
these days in public schools)- and I go running through its halls
stark
naked, screaming not only “I know Patrick and I’m on Mindvox with
drug
addicts,” but also purely nonsensicle stuff too, like,
“ARGGHHHJ@SA(TQW$JTAKLMSDRYJAE”$PTUOJ” and “OHILAKMLKNJDG(*YWEIUHT
LSKMNDF GIUYWPE:OitHLKNG!!”

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 10, 2005 at 9:29:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Do you run up and down the
halls in school telling girls “I know Patrick and I’m
on Mindvox with drug addicts!” <

I don’t know about Vector, but I live across the street from an elementary school (where I also vote when there are elections), one with the oldest playground in Manhattan on it’s grounds, right across from and below my window (thrilling V to no end when spring/summer hit and there are hundreds of screaming children playing outside, letting off steam after being cooped up “studying” or what it is they’re doing these days in public schools)- and I go running through its halls stark naked, screaming not only “I know Patrick and I’m on Mindvox with drug addicts,” but also purely nonsensicle stuff too, like, “ARGGHHHJ@SA(TQW$JTAKLMSDRYJAE”$PTUOJ” and “OHILAKMLKNJDG(*YWEIUHT LSKMNDF GIUYWPE:OitHLKNG!!”
Boy, you should see the looks on those kids’ faces. Smiles all around, while teachers and security chase me through the halls with gun drawn and firing away madly, dropping innocent bystanders and young fresh faced students like flies. It’s usually a messy excursion into the public school system each and everytime I do so, usually alternating Wednesday and Fridays, depending upon whether or not there’s been a full moon the weekend immediately following, but hey, I’ve gotta get my thrills somewhere. I do wish they wouldn’t wax the floors so much though as it sticks to the bottoms of my bare feets, making me slip and slide when the children, who’ve been dropped by overeager security guards firing at all and sundry, get their blood everywher…oh, hold on a second, what am I saying? I’d NEVER run naked through the public school systems screaming nonsensicles and I love Patricks! I’d at LEAST wear SHOES!
Or something.
Is it obvious I’m tired and sore and not a little delerious this evening?
No?
Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet

Hi Vector  😉

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

without her. then there
have been the 1000 messages of infatuated patrick
groupies who go on
and on about him and the ones who call up where he
works and repost
hour long conversations with mash where she picks up
the phone and
gushes how he’s her son and what a genius he is.
Sounds like
dysfunctional weird people, not the devil.

What you
read in my message, which was one part answering a
simple question and
one part making a small amount of fun at Carla who
I’ve also been
talking to for years and should know it wasn’t meant
in a bad way,

I didn’t take it in a bad way, I’m not getting into a
catfight over it, I might have to kick you in the
balls vector 😉

Speaking of “infatuated Patrick groupies” and being
non-sexist, remember this. Do you run up and down the
halls in school telling girls “I know Patrick and I’m
on Mindvox with drug addicts!” Does it get you laid?
😉

Love

Carla B

Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick you’re in another book

Patrick, from my college bookstore 🙂

Hip: The History
by John Leland

Your quotes open one of his sections, you’ve got 9
or 10 pages, you,
Legion of Doom, secret service, how it connects to
the Yippies, ending
with you in Florida, heroin addiction and ibogaine.

Another fine job of tying it all together 🙂

Congrats, in his closing White Niggers, he’s got you
with Dylan, Mark
Twain and compares you to modern day Jesse James 🙂
Love you Patrick,
but I’m not typing in all those pages, I’m sure he
sent you a copy
anyway.

You’re a beautiful psycho 🙂

I’ll type one sentence for you 🙂 Give me email
already!

“The hip antihero gathers no moss. We think of
Dylan, Huck or Sal, or
Jesse James, or Lord Digital, as traveling through a
world with no
baggage. Reinventing themselves on the road.”

“What is missing from this story is what the
travelers bring back to us
when they arrive. Along with their own unique
epiphanies, the road
warriors also transport ideas and knowledge from one
place to another.
Their adventures, in turn, seduce other travelers
into motion.”

.:vector:.

The proper way to read this book is of course, from
the back. Checking
to see if your name is in the index. If it’s not in
there (and let’s
face it, what are the chances?) my apologies. For
some reason your hang
time at the Six Gallery, or Northsix in
Williamsburg, your matted coif
and ironic eyeglasses, your collection of final
vinyl and Burroughs
first-editions, has escaped everyone’s notice but
your own. Probably
the hip guy you knew in high school, or wish you
were, or the ghost you
passed at the needle exchange, didn’t make it into
this book either.
Cool is an elusive thing and sometimes must be its
own reward.

If you are in the index, another sort of apology is
in order. This is
not a conventional history, faithfully reporting the
experiences of
people who lived it. Instead, it is a history of
public perception,
which by its nature is sometimes awry. Its
distortions are part of what
makes hip.

If you think of Thelonious Monk or Miles Davis
onstage, or Rakim
writing rhymes in Long Island, Jay Z in the
Brooklyn,
you might think they
are thinking very cool thoughts, but it is their
imagination and the
actions that people who are seduced by it take, that
form hip’s course.
Hip is romanticism, not a catalog of facts.

Hip is about people who cause waves that ripple
through the big pond,
it is not a suggestion to follow in their footsteps
and become the next
Neal Cassady, freezing to death in a ditch in Mexico
after a
methamphetmine induced heart attack. Yet Neal
Cassady, along with Jim
Carroll and Bob Dylan, will always belong in hip’s
cannon.

In truth far too many of the celebrated figures in
these pages led
melancholy and difficult lives of isolation, mental
illness and drug
addiction. Interesting and romantic to read about,
but very tough on
those who live them.

In the words of Ice-T, don’t hate the player, hate
the game. As the
saying goes those who can, do. Those who can’t,
purchased this book.

This book takes the reader on a remarkable journey
from 17th century
plantations to 21st century Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
On route, we meet
America’s greatest hipsters- people who used
language and manipulated
the forces around them to transform society, from
Mark Twain to
Muhammed Ali, from Charlie Parker to Richard Hell.
Leland draws a
family tree linking the most influential cultural
movements across
generations, detailing not only how the unique
American experience
begat our cultural icons, but how, in turn, those
enlightened
individuals have shaped the world around them, our
world.

“Hip: A History” is sufficiently thorough and
analytical to read like a
textbook of American cultural history. But its much
more than that.
Leland’s narratives put us right in the middle of
some of the most
provocative scenes: minstrel shows, the beats,
bebops, early hip-hop
and grafetti art, to name a few. You may not always
agree with Leland
about what is hip; that’s part of the fun. But get
on board for this
trip across the racial, ethnic, geographic, economic
and cultural
divide that has brought us together and torn us
apart over the last 350
years and catch a glimpse of the artists who had
their fingers on the
pulse of their America. Its quite a ride.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 10, 2005 at 8:51:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Vector  😉

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

without her. then there
have been the 1000 messages of infatuated patrick
groupies who go on
and on about him and the ones who call up where he
works and repost
hour long conversations with mash where she picks up
the phone and
gushes how he’s her son and what a genius he is.
Sounds like
dysfunctional weird people, not the devil.

What you
read in my message, which was one part answering a
simple question and
one part making a small amount of fun at Carla who
I’ve also been
talking to for years and should know it wasn’t meant
in a bad way,

I didn’t take it in a bad way, I’m not getting into a
catfight over it, I might have to kick you in the
balls vector 😉

Speaking of “infatuated Patrick groupies” and being
non-sexist, remember this. Do you run up and down the
halls in school telling girls “I know Patrick and I’m
on Mindvox with drug addicts!” Does it get you laid?
😉

Love

Carla B

Re: [Ibogaine] Patrick you’re in another book

Patrick, from my college bookstore 🙂

Hip: The History
by John Leland

Your quotes open one of his sections, you’ve got 9
or 10 pages, you,
Legion of Doom, secret service, how it connects to
the Yippies, ending
with you in Florida, heroin addiction and ibogaine.

Another fine job of tying it all together 🙂

Congrats, in his closing White Niggers, he’s got you
with Dylan, Mark
Twain and compares you to modern day Jesse James 🙂
Love you Patrick,
but I’m not typing in all those pages, I’m sure he
sent you a copy
anyway.

You’re a beautiful psycho 🙂

I’ll type one sentence for you 🙂 Give me email
already!

“The hip antihero gathers no moss. We think of
Dylan, Huck or Sal, or
Jesse James, or Lord Digital, as traveling through a
world with no
baggage. Reinventing themselves on the road.”

“What is missing from this story is what the
travelers bring back to us
when they arrive. Along with their own unique
epiphanies, the road
warriors also transport ideas and knowledge from one
place to another.
Their adventures, in turn, seduce other travelers
into motion.”

.:vector:.

The proper way to read this book is of course, from
the back. Checking
to see if your name is in the index. If it’s not in
there (and let’s
face it, what are the chances?) my apologies. For
some reason your hang
time at the Six Gallery, or Northsix in
Williamsburg, your matted coif
and ironic eyeglasses, your collection of final
vinyl and Burroughs
first-editions, has escaped everyone’s notice but
your own. Probably
the hip guy you knew in high school, or wish you
were, or the ghost you
passed at the needle exchange, didn’t make it into
this book either.
Cool is an elusive thing and sometimes must be its
own reward.

If you are in the index, another sort of apology is
in order. This is
not a conventional history, faithfully reporting the
experiences of
people who lived it. Instead, it is a history of
public perception,
which by its nature is sometimes awry. Its
distortions are part of what
makes hip.

If you think of Thelonious Monk or Miles Davis
onstage, or Rakim
writing rhymes in Long Island, Jay Z in the
Brooklyn,
you might think they
are thinking very cool thoughts, but it is their
imagination and the
actions that people who are seduced by it take, that
form hip’s course.
Hip is romanticism, not a catalog of facts.

Hip is about people who cause waves that ripple
through the big pond,
it is not a suggestion to follow in their footsteps
and become the next
Neal Cassady, freezing to death in a ditch in Mexico
after a
methamphetmine induced heart attack. Yet Neal
Cassady, along with Jim
Carroll and Bob Dylan, will always belong in hip’s
cannon.

In truth far too many of the celebrated figures in
these pages led
melancholy and difficult lives of isolation, mental
illness and drug
addiction. Interesting and romantic to read about,
but very tough on
those who live them.

In the words of Ice-T, don’t hate the player, hate
the game. As the
saying goes those who can, do. Those who can’t,
purchased this book.

This book takes the reader on a remarkable journey
from 17th century
plantations to 21st century Williamsburg, Brooklyn.
On route, we meet
America’s greatest hipsters- people who used
language and manipulated
the forces around them to transform society, from
Mark Twain to
Muhammed Ali, from Charlie Parker to Richard Hell.
Leland draws a
family tree linking the most influential cultural
movements across
generations, detailing not only how the unique
American experience
begat our cultural icons, but how, in turn, those
enlightened
individuals have shaped the world around them, our
world.

“Hip: A History” is sufficiently thorough and
analytical to read like a
textbook of American cultural history. But its much
more than that.
Leland’s narratives put us right in the middle of
some of the most
provocative scenes: minstrel shows, the beats,
bebops, early hip-hop
and grafetti art, to name a few. You may not always
agree with Leland
about what is hip; that’s part of the fun. But get
on board for this
trip across the racial, ethnic, geographic, economic
and cultural
divide that has brought us together and torn us
apart over the last 350
years and catch a glimpse of the artists who had
their fingers on the
pulse of their America. Its quite a ride.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] listening-ekki
Date: March 10, 2005 at 7:46:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

how do they com up with
366?<

Come to think of it, I do believe that it was mentioned somewhere in the preceding chapter that range is more wide than exactly 366, but that 366 fits into the whole- or something. I’d have to go back over it and reread it. But I may, and I stress the word MAY, have some more questions for you on this topic in the next couple of weeks for an article I’m thinking of writing for this Lost Civilizations book I’m editing. I’m not sure I’ll need to, but it’s good to know you’re out there with this sort of knowlege. It’s funny how things work out sometimes.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening

now getting into mathematical mystery:). the excerpt has some mistakes
i think. if we invert the number of seconds a year has (about
3600*24*265.25) and multiply with 2^74 we get 136,10 Hz which is c#d as
you wrote and bluegreen but not 366 as it says in the book. (194,18
which is half of 388,36 Hz would be a day)  how do they com up with
366?
i know some people find the number 72 interesting but i´m not sure
why. i found its 2/3 of 108 which is a magical number in india,
representig 1vishnu, 0brahma, 8shiva or the three states of spiritual
experience i.e. oneness/unity, emptiness and multiplicity/infinity(8
when lying down), also 1^1*2^2*3^3 is 108 and so on.
i wonder what Archimedes Plutonium would say about this 😉
cheers ekki

Am 09.03.2005 um 16:26 schrieb Preston Peet:

i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.<

maybe u sing a didgeridoo?
I just read that their note for the Earth, the one they play to praise the Earth/earth itself, they play one tuned to a note that is just  over c#d, which apparently is, amazingly enough considering they must  have come up with it scores of thousands of years ago. This is what  the authors of “Civilization One” have to say on the subject (authored  by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler) in the Conclusions to the  chapter titled Music and Light:

——

Conclusions:

We found that the Megalithic numbers produced circles that combined  the mathematical ratios known pi and phi. Both and irrational numbers  yet they produced resuilts that are so close to being perect to be negligible. In our investigation we found that an American PhD student had discovered the existence of phi in [Alexander] Thom’s data back in the early 19702- a fact confirmed by the great man himself when he described the finding as ‘magical.’

The all-important numbers 366 and 360 are curiously linked by a combination of pi and phi because 360 divided by 5 gives a result of  72 and 366 divided by pi x phi also gives the resuilt of 72. This  suggests that the relationship between the two Megalithic numbers has  a fundamental resonance with these two very special rations.

When we turned to the subject of music we found that Megalithic mathematics produces its own structure. Sound is mormally measured in cycles per modern second, known as hertz. (Hz),  but we considered  using cycles per Megalithic Second, which we called Thoms (Th). A  frequency of 366 Th is the same as 366 Hz, which places our Megalithic  note just slightly above C sharp in modern concern tuning. This is  effectively thge ‘found of the Earth turning’ because the planet  reoatates at a rate of one Megalithic Yard per beat at the equator.

We found the indigenous Australians consider a didgeridoo with a note equal to 366 Th capable of creating sacred Earth music. Further investigation of other indigenous music also revealed Megalithic  rhythm and pitch corespondences. It appears that there is an  instinctive rtelationship between the rotating mass of the planet and  human music. It mayu indeed have been the ‘involuntary’ sense that the  mystic and mathematician Pythagoras came to call ‘the harmony of the  spheres.’

When we looked at human sight we found that the visible part of the electomagnetic spectrum forms an octave rather like music. What is  more, if we move exactly 40 octvaes up the frequency scale from a note  of 366 TH we got to blue light. While nearly all scientists believe  that light and sound and not connected, we tentatively feel that there  might be a resonance between the two that is picked up by human  perception.
—-

Personally, if there’s anything I’ve ever taken that put me in touch  with what I might consider an Earth spirit realm of some kind, I’d  have to say it was ibogaine (and mushrooms and mescaline too- but  ibogaine really, really put me into a state of utter weirdness full of  what I can only describes as many other places right here in my room  and head but not. Earth spirit realms, to get all mumbojumbo sounding.  The ibogaine root grows in earth, of the Earth itself, and so I tend  to subscribe to the personal notion that substances like ibogaine,  mushrooms, peyote, and all the other plant-based trippifiers really  could be the link, the key to allow us communications with the Earth  it/her/himself, the key that unlocks our minds to the language of the  planet we live on- and those who outlaw those substances are  embodiements of the literal dark force, the black evil destuctive side  of things, the ones who will pave over the Earth and cut us off from  all those modes of communication allowing us to actually commune  directly with the spirits of the planet and other spaces too all  around us.
Wow, I sound stoned, and I’m nott….really all that stoned. It’s  all residuals,,,that’s it, that’s the ticket.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is  often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening

Am 09.03.2005 um 03:14 schrieb Preston Peet:

Queens of the Stone Age have a song on their Desert Sessions record #5-6, called Teens of Thailand, which begins with a sound effect that  in headphones played loud literally sounds exactly like a huge hit of  iv cocaine.
The first few times I heard it it would take me by surprise and I’d  be hit with that feeling of “holy shit I know that sound…oh yeah,  and I know where from too.”

hi Preston, thanks for the hint and the writing was cool, too. i´m
sucking “teens” at the moment.
i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.
-ekki

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 10, 2005 at 6:56:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 6, 2005, at 6:23 PM, Jim Hadey wrote:

Hello Dana,

You wrote in your letter     >>and I can’t think of any way of getting him off meth other
than pointing a gun at his head and locking him in a meth-free closet
for six months —  <<<<

Not my letter.

Notice it started

From: roos@r3v.org

I  reposted it to get these folks help.

Dana/cnw

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] audio
Date: March 10, 2005 at 6:15:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for scientifically proving that ekki 🙂

.:vector:.

cocain + oxycotin and lsd+thc are surprisingly harmonic. no
accident
those drugs mix well 😉

— ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
hey vector
the program is reaktor, i plan to try it in csound,too
the frequencies are calculated from the six most prominent ir-peaks
found on a medical webpage. the relative amplitudes are not very
exact
i have to admit. there are a lot of sites on forensic research that
have interesting info on for example how to identify the ingredients
of
xtcpills by their ir-spectra.
i should use the uv values too, somehow.

ir peaks occur at certain wavelength. the frequency is calculated by

dividing lightspeed trough wavelength, then divided by 2^n which is
an
octavation to get it into the audible spectrum. the same principle is

used in the HClsongs using 56 peaks where other musical parameters
are
calculated like this,too.

hope to come up with more complex and %even% closer sonic
approximations. also i look for a high-end reverb program.

cocain + oxycotin and lsd+thc are surprisingly harmonic. no
accident
those drugs mix well 😉

ekki

__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 10, 2005 at 5:43:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Me? I posted what I thought was a light reply and gave out an email
address the poster asked for, which isn’t private since it’s posted on
Mindvox and linked.

I don’t know Kamlet at all and never heard of him until last year. I
don’t know Patrick but I’ve been on this list for 4 years now and even
if I don’t know what he does on his own time, all of this has to cost a
huge amount of money and time and all I’ve seen him do is put up with
shit very gracefully. Patrick is cool as fuck, all I’ve ever seen him
say about Kamlet is positive, I’m willing to accept that.

I don’t know Mash either, but I’ve seen 3,000 messages come through
here over the years and I know enough that saying negative things about
her doesn’t lead anywhere. I know what is said about her, then I know
that none of us would be here talking if it wasn’t for Patrick and he’s
made it real obvious that he wouldn’t be here without her. then there
have been the 1000 messages of infatuated patrick groupies who go on
and on about him and the ones who call up where he works and repost
hour long conversations with mash where she picks up the phone and
gushes how he’s her son and what a genius he is. Sounds like
dysfunctional weird people, not the devil. who else would be on this
list?

I don’t have any issues with anyone about money, charge $50,000 for a
detox if you can find people to pay that good for all of you. What you
read in my message, which was one part answering a simple question and
one part making a small amount of fun at Carla who I’ve also been
talking to for years and should know it wasn’t meant in a bad way, what
you got out of it wasn’t there. Maybe it’s you who are too sensitized
because you keep hearing all of those issues you brought up in your
message which mine didn’t have in it. I’m not a drug addict, I plan to
do ibogaine over the summer to see what it’s like but I don’t have any
trouble finding where I want to go and getting it for a lot less money,
mostly because I read this list which connects everybody, which goes
right back to I don’t have any problems with Patrick 🙂

.:vector:.

— MargoK2004@aol.com wrote:
Vector you seem to have some issues with Patrick, Dr Mash and Dr
Kamlet
in reguards to money. I know for a fact that Patrick does all he can
to
help many people and爐he same applies for Dr Kamlet and Dr Mash..
If someone in lucky enough to find a job they love and make money
doing
it is a great thing. Most people should be so lucky.
Both Dr Mash and Dr Kamlet have helped and treated people for free.
I
know many people who would not be alive to if not for them.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 10, 2005 at 5:13:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 10.03.2005 um 22:54 schrieb ekki:

now getting into mathematical mystery:). the excerpt has some mistakes i think. if we invert the number of seconds a year has (about 3600*24*265.25)

sorry 3600*24*365.25 of course

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 10, 2005 at 5:06:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector you seem to have some issues with Patrick, Dr Mash and Dr Kamlet in reguards to money. I know for a fact that Patrick does all he can to help many people and the same applies for Dr Kamlet and Dr Mash..
If someone in lucky enough to find a job they love and make money doing it is a great thing. Most people should be so lucky.
Both Dr Mash and Dr Kamlet have helped and treated people for free. I know many people who would not be alive to if not for them.

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 10, 2005 at 4:54:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

now getting into mathematical mystery:). the excerpt has some mistakes i think. if we invert the number of seconds a year has (about 3600*24*265.25) and multiply with 2^74 we get 136,10 Hz which is c#d as you wrote and bluegreen but not 366 as it says in the book. (194,18 which is half of 388,36 Hz would be a day)  how do they com up with 366?
i know some people find the number 72 interesting but i´m not sure why. i found its 2/3 of 108 which is a magical number in india, representig 1vishnu, 0brahma, 8shiva or the three states of spiritual experience i.e. oneness/unity, emptiness and multiplicity/infinity(8 when lying down), also 1^1*2^2*3^3 is 108 and so on.
i wonder what Archimedes Plutonium would say about this 😉
cheers ekki

Am 09.03.2005 um 16:26 schrieb Preston Peet:

i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.<

maybe u sing a didgeridoo?
I just read that their note for the Earth, the one they play to praise the Earth/earth itself, they play one tuned to a note that is just over c#d, which apparently is, amazingly enough considering they must have come up with it scores of thousands of years ago. This is what the authors of “Civilization One” have to say on the subject (authored by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler) in the Conclusions to the chapter titled Music and Light:

——

Conclusions:

We found that the Megalithic numbers produced circles that combined the mathematical ratios known pi and phi. Both and irrational numbers yet they produced resuilts that are so close to being perect to be negligible. In our investigation we found that an American PhD student had discovered the existence of phi in [Alexander] Thom’s data back in the early 19702- a fact confirmed by the great man himself when he described the finding as ‘magical.’

The all-important numbers 366 and 360 are curiously linked by a combination of pi and phi because 360 divided by 5 gives a result of 72 and 366 divided by pi x phi also gives the resuilt of 72. This suggests that the relationship between the two Megalithic numbers has a fundamental resonance with these two very special rations.

When we turned to the subject of music we found that Megalithic mathematics produces its own structure. Sound is mormally measured in cycles per modern second, known as hertz. (Hz),  but we considered using cycles per Megalithic Second, which we called Thoms (Th). A frequency of 366 Th is the same as 366 Hz, which places our Megalithic note just slightly above C sharp in modern concern tuning. This is effectively thge ‘found of the Earth turning’ because the planet reoatates at a rate of one Megalithic Yard per beat at the equator.

We found the indigenous Australians consider a didgeridoo with a note equal to 366 Th capable of creating sacred Earth music. Further investigation of other indigenous music also revealed Megalithic rhythm and pitch corespondences. It appears that there is an instinctive rtelationship between the rotating mass of the planet and human music. It mayu indeed have been the ‘involuntary’ sense that the mystic and mathematician Pythagoras came to call ‘the harmony of the spheres.’

When we looked at human sight we found that the visible part of the electomagnetic spectrum forms an octave rather like music. What is more, if we move exactly 40 octvaes up the frequency scale from a note of 366 TH we got to blue light. While nearly all scientists believe that light and sound and not connected, we tentatively feel that there might be a resonance between the two that is picked up by human perception.
—-

Personally, if there’s anything I’ve ever taken that put me in touch with what I might consider an Earth spirit realm of some kind, I’d have to say it was ibogaine (and mushrooms and mescaline too- but ibogaine really, really put me into a state of utter weirdness full of what I can only describes as many other places right here in my room and head but not. Earth spirit realms, to get all mumbojumbo sounding. The ibogaine root grows in earth, of the Earth itself, and so I tend to subscribe to the personal notion that substances like ibogaine, mushrooms, peyote, and all the other plant-based trippifiers really could be the link, the key to allow us communications with the Earth it/her/himself, the key that unlocks our minds to the language of the planet we live on- and those who outlaw those substances are embodiements of the literal dark force, the black evil destuctive side of things, the ones who will pave over the Earth and cut us off from all those modes of communication allowing us to actually commune directly with the spirits of the planet and other spaces too all around us.
Wow, I sound stoned, and I’m nott….really all that stoned. It’s all residuals,,,that’s it, that’s the ticket.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening

Am 09.03.2005 um 03:14 schrieb Preston Peet:

Queens of the Stone Age have a song on their Desert Sessions record #5-6, called Teens of Thailand, which begins with a sound effect that in headphones played loud literally sounds exactly like a huge hit of iv cocaine.
The first few times I heard it it would take me by surprise and I’d be hit with that feeling of “holy shit I know that sound…oh yeah, and I know where from too.”

hi Preston, thanks for the hint and the writing was cool, too. i´m
sucking “teens” at the moment.
i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.
-ekki

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 10, 2005 at 3:01:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 10.03.2005 um 15:13 schrieb Andrea Plementos:

Hey Jon/Ekki,

I will post(soon) some of the freakier stuff I did after actually ingesting Ibo.

that will be cool! thanks for close listening.

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] audio
Date: March 10, 2005 at 3:00:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey vector
the program is reaktor, i plan to try it in csound,too
the frequencies are calculated from the six most prominent ir-peaks found on a medical webpage. the relative amplitudes are not very exact i have to admit. there are a lot of sites on forensic research that have interesting info on for example how to identify the ingredients of xtcpills by their ir-spectra.
i should use the uv values too, somehow.

ir peaks occur at certain wavelength. the frequency is calculated by dividing lightspeed trough wavelength, then divided by 2^n which is an octavation to get it into the audible spectrum. the same principle is used in the HClsongs using 56 peaks where other musical parameters are calculated like this,too.

hope to come up with more complex and %even% closer sonic approximations. also i look for a high-end reverb program.

cocain + oxycotin and lsd+thc are surprisingly harmonic. no accident those drugs mix well 😉

ekki

Am 10.03.2005 um 00:56 schrieb Vector Vector:

Ekki what exactly are you using to make these sounds?

.:vector:.

— ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
a few drugsounds including ibogaine(improved)
www.ekkijdfg.de

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: NGOs kicked out of HIV & drug ‘abuse’ session at CND
Date: March 10, 2005 at 11:44:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>, “andria efthimiou” <andria3a@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If Gary Webb, writer of “Dark Alliance” had not exposed the complicity of CIA agents in the distribution of cocaine and heroin around the planet, I might be able to bear it.<

Believe or not Andria and all, he, (Gary Webb) was not the only one, nor even the first one to expose the CIA and US government (and others) of complicity in the global drug trade- one of the foremost, and still breathing and teaching, is Alfred McCoy, who wrote The Politics of Heroin- CIA Conmplicity in the Global Drug Trade, which first came out in 1972, and has been expanded to include Afghanistan and Central/South America since then (since it was first about Vietnam and SouthEast Asia mainly). There’s also Heinrick Kruger’s The Great Heroin Coup, and a few more that slip my mind at the moment.
Please visit:

US Government Drug Running Capers (my first ever dossier for disinfo.com, chock full of links to more info about US gov and CIA/millitary drug trafficking involvements and connections)

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id182/pg1/

and

Inside the Octopus

http://www.hightimes.com/ht/news/content.php?bid=208&aid=3

and

US, Kosovo and Criminal Drug Cartels

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id201/pg1/

and
How the People Seldom Catch Intelligence-
(or… How to Be a Successful Drug Dealer)

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0207/S00202.htm

and

heck, this could go on a while….

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: andria efthimiou
To: Eurodrug@encod.org ; DPFUsers@drugsense.org
Cc: UKHRA-discussion@yahoogroups.com ; PSmith@drcnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 10:41 AM
Subject: NGOs kicked out of HIV & drug ‘abuse’ session at CND

Dear Friends,

I’m scared.

The following may read stupid, particularly if you work in the trenches of the drug war, fighting for drug treatment and AIDS/Hepatis treatments to dying drug-users. It is. It may also turn out to be more dead bodies for no good reason..

This morning, the ONDCP “hangman”as described by TNI’s Martin Jelsma, – Dave Murray of the ONDCP – raised the issue of the status of NGOs at a session of the ad hoc committee of the whole; that is are we there as participants or observers. After another wasted hour, this afternoon, the Nigerian chair, a playful man, in subdued voice said that “NGOs with ECOSOC status could watch from the back unless one nation State objected” Murray looks over at us and intimates to the chair: “if there are rules on this, I do not have to make a direct rejection statement.” A Dutch govt. delegate raised a point of order but in fact she said that the secretariat had confirmed that we do not have observer status in that meeting.”

Most of the nation states delegates there were in support of us staying, who spoke (five) but Murray and his blonde female sidekick, clearly had a problem with us being there and did what U.S. government folk are becoming world-famous for doing – bullying the least powerful. We left with rage and dignity.

The issues in question there are of paramount importance to the health and security of injection drugs-users and their significant others, but as the last 25 yrs of history has showed us, not to U.S. govt. officials, whose obssession remains with whether we are drug dependent, or not. Many of you will not need to be reminded of what the outcomes of their policies are…shamefully, of one of the most affluent nations of the world, they have 25% of IDUs infected with HIV disease. Their prisons fill up with other non-violent prisoners and many of them are used as cheap labour for the major multi-nationals. Some say it’s a deliberate strategy that keeps this population disenfranchised and in the end under somebody’s control.

If Gary Webb, writer of “Dark Alliance” had not exposed the complicity of CIA agents in the distribution of cocaine and heroin around the planet, I might be able to bear it.

As it is, I cannot. WHY do we let ourselves be so easily bullied?

Andria Efthimiou-Mordaunt
www.usersvoice.org.uk

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Marijuana Users In Treatment: Unraveling the Federal Spin
Date: March 10, 2005 at 11:26:45 AM EST
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.drugwar.com/mcvaymjtreatment.shtm

Marijuana Users In Treatment: Unraveling the Federal Spin
By Doug McVay
Common Sense for Drug Policy
For DrugWar.com
March 9, 2005
The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) in March 2005 released a report on the number of marijuana users referred to drug treatment from 1992 through 2002. According to SAMHSA, “Admission rates for primary marijuana increased nationally by 162 percent between 1992 and 2002.” SAMHSA estimated that “[T]he number of marijuana admissions per year more than tripled in this time period. In the same period, the proportion of marijuana admissions increased from 6 percent of all admissions to 15 percent of all admissions.”
Some officials have spun these numbers to try and show that marijuana is a serious drug threat. Unraveling their spin reveals the less-than-earth-shattering reality behind the figures.
snip-
For more of Doug McVay’s report and links to futher info, please visit the above URL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Andrea Plementos <aplementos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 10, 2005 at 9:13:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jon/Ekki,

I will post(soon) some of the freakier stuff I did after actually ingesting Ibo.  The soundbytes on the site are used as therapeutical adjunct to ibo experience- that is, they are harmonically, melodically and structurally sound, and not as interesting and abstract as your pieces.  I tried using more abstract, ambient waveforms/sounds, but a few of my Ibonauts had what I guess you would call ‘bad trips’.

Andrea
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business – Try our new resources site!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 10, 2005 at 6:15:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/8/05 11:03:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ekki writes:

<< i felt my aural sensibility was destroyed by drugs and it
is getting better since ibogaine.

Ekki, you brought back an Ibo memory, thanx, after Ibo sounds brought me to
tears sometimes and every time I would try and sing certain songs I would just
bust out crying at the beauty of music. I listend to Filter 4 hours after
taking Ibogaine on the last day of my treatment and the sound was incredible. Nice
shot was the name of the song that sounded so cool. It had a slap back delay
going and the delay was hitting my ears before the note was actually played,
it twisted my head pretty good. God that sounded incredible.            Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Buprenorphine articles: skipping days; HIV prevention; diversion.
Date: March 9, 2005 at 10:29:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ‘Andrew Byrne’
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:37 PM
Subject: Buprenorphine articles: skipping days; HIV prevention; diversion.

Excepts from my summaries on three papers of interest (more complete summaries on request).
# Daily versus second (or even third) daily buprenorphine dosing. (Citations see below)
# HIV prevention using methadone and buprenorphine around the world.
# Diversion of bup in Melbourne despite no ‘take-homes’ permitted: less in other states.
Dear Colleagues,
There has been a plethora of scientific information published on buprenorphine in recent months. While most of it confirms what was already known, some is new and deserves examination.
# In contrast to others’ experience, veteran researcher Bickel and colleagues report no differences between twice, thrice or seven day attendance for buprenorphine. Their 24 week randomised trial examines urine toxicology, retention and behavioural/health outcomes, all of which were comparable between the three groups attending 2, 3 or 7 times per week. These results may be been affected by Vermont being a ‘dry’ state having no community methadone nor buprenorphine at that time. In addition, this trial used liquid buprenorphine which may have double the bio-availability of the sublingual tablets. Some patients (the twice weekly sample, n = 45) received triple and even quadruple the mean daily dose which would have been challenging using tablets.
It is hard to reconcile this type of research supporting less than daily dosing ‘across-the-board’ when in clinical practice less than half our patients seem able to cope with such arrangements, despite the obvious benefits for them as well as dispensing staff. The latter is consistent with knowledge that buprenorphine’s half life is highly variable and may be as short as 9 hours in some subjects. [ref on request]
# The authors of a review on ‘decreasing international HIV transmission’ remind us that both methadone and buprenorphine have now been recognised as valuable agents for opiate addiction, although the latter has ‘lagged’ until recent years. They write that buprenorphine is now approved in 35 countries and marketed in 27 of them. Only in the USA the drug is used as a combination product with naloxone. To date we are told that nearly 2500 physicians have been licensed to prescribe it for addiction in an unsupervised manner from regular pharmacies. As in the case of France in 1995, such use of buprenorphine is a rather novel, even ‘experimental’. In spite of this widespread use in clinical practice, there is still a dearth of good research reports on this means of treatment (I may stand corrected).
For some reason the authors do not mention the major proven place of needle services. In a lengthy article on HIV prevention using pharmacotherapies one would think that the issue of treatment ‘failures’ might be better addressed. Research quoted here shows that maintenance treatment is very effective, but it does not result in a complete cessation in injecting behaviour in all entrants to treatment. Those who continue to inject and place themselves and others at risk are still our responsibility as clinicians. Thus injecting practices are a crucial issue in early treatment, including education and the supply of clean needles. It is extraordinary that these experienced American authors seem constrained from addressing this highly successful public health strategy which is now used in virtually every other western country. A normal discussion of starting insulin treatment for diabetes would always mention diet and exercise. The New York Times addressed this in an editorial recently “Washington’s antipathy toward needle exchanges is a triumph of ideology over science, logic and compassion” (27 Feb 05).
# From a sample of 156 current injectors from 5 needle supply services in Melbourne in 2002 we are told that 33% report injecting buprenorphine in a 6 month period. Comparable figures for other Australian states were all less than 5%. The Sydney injecting centre has had ‘hardly any’ buprenorphine injecting despite over 220,000 attendances.
Compared with others attending the needle service, buprenorphine injectors were more likely to be poly drug users, to be in treatment, to be unemployed and to have a prison history.
While the regulation of maintenance treatments in some respects is comparable in the different states, Victoria had a faster uptake of buprenorphine in a context where methadone treatment is extremely tightly controlled. At the time of the questionnaire the drug had only been approved for about a year and there had been a massive ‘roll-out’ in Victoria where up to 3000 patients were already in treatment. Very few take-home doses are permitted – usually 3 per month – and these are often diluted in large bottles. Most patients receive doses in community pharmacies and most areas have no early opening clinics. Apart from the limited dosing hours, other possible reasons for the existence of this consumer driven “grey” market in Victoria might be inadequate dose levels, travelling or financial difficulties.
# More complete summaries available for these three items on request.
Comments by Andrew Byrne ..
Citations:
Sullivan LE, Metzger DS, Fudala PJ, Fiellin DA. Decreasing international HIV transmission: the role of expanding access to opioid agonist therapies for injection drug users. Addiction (2005) 100;2:150-158
Marsch LA, Bickel WK, Badgerb GJ, Jacobs EA. Buprenorphine treatment for opioid dependence: the relative efficacy of daily, twice and thrice weekly dosing. Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2005) 77;2:195-204
Jenkinson RA, Clark NC, Fry CL, Dobbin M. Buprenorphine diversion and injection in Melbourne, Australia: an emerging issue? Addiction (2005) 100;2:197-205
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (Syd) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Author of: “Addict in the Family” http://www.csdp.org/addict/

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 9, 2005 at 8:37:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

great, thanx for the samples =)

i’ll sart working on some tracks in the next couple days and post em to
the list.

Ekki and Jon

I truly enjoyed your pieces.  Ekki, I like the fact
that portions of the Ibo samples sound like a digital
gamelan type of instrument, especially Rendrefou(sorry
if I misspelled this) and Nice and Slow.  I love the
idea of the sonification of the Ibogaine molecule, it
is truly ingenious.  Nice and Slow was particularly
hypnotic.

If you are at all interested, there are several
soundbytes of my Ibo pieces online.  They are only
segments of the piece, but they will give you an idea
of what I am doing.  Check them out at your leisure:

http://www.ibogatherapy.org/SoundBytes/default.aspx

There are still a few bugs on the site and it is not
quite finished yet. Windows Media Player seems to
allow only one download per visit, but I hope to have
this fixed shortly.

Regards,
Andrea

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 7:28:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I used meth casually for 15 years, and heavily for 5, and never saw anything
that remotely looked like methamphetamine psychosis. I would venture to say
that the vast majority of meth users don’t experience meth as causing
psychosis.

Now, to add a caveat, I didn’t shoot and rarely smoked it. But, I had access
to as much of it as I wanted, and I could take it untill exhaustion forced
me to stop. Those I knew who did shoot it didn’t display anything I would
call MAP.

The point I am trying to make is that most users, for example Dana’s fellow,
don’t experience it as some awful thing that is driving them crazy. If you
talk to a user like that, they are going to dismiss you as a drug propaganda
fool.

If you want to get an average user to stop you have to appeal to other
motivations. Steady use will cause health problems, such as losing teeth
(you can appeal to people’s vanity) and, from what I’ve seen, rheumatoid
arthritis. Try talking straight to the user about the real, average health
risks, and ask them to stay away from their source.

Since there is no withdrawal, getting off is easy, once the person has
decided that they are done with it. And, as far as I can see, casual
occasional use has very little negative side effects.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] audio
Date: March 9, 2005 at 6:56:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki what exactly are you using to make these sounds?

.:vector:.

— ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
a few drugsounds including ibogaine(improved)
www.ekkijdfg.de

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 9, 2005 at 6:51:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla here’s your cue to buy 20 copies of Ibogaine Rite of Passage,
patrick is in it 😉

I think Patrick answers his email once every 6 months, but if you want
to buy a ibogaine detox from his mom Dr. Mash, I’m sure she’ll put you
right through to him and include a hour of Patrick for a small
additional charge 🙂

Kamlet is listed on the people page of Mindvox:

http://www.drkamlet.yourmd.com

kamletmd@aol.com

.:vector:.

— Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com> wrote:
I have some questions I wanted to ask about the science talk on
ibogaine low dose and especially maintenance when using opiates at
the
same time. I’ve never heard of this before and was very interested in
both your talks, most of the best information for me was Kroupa and
Kamlet cross talking to each other on the first day’s panel, but
neither one of you followed it up the next day, you announced the
Miami clinical trials restarting and Kamlet gave a great safety talk
but on the first day the ibogaine movie started and on the second day
neither one of you stuck around.

I wanted most of all to know if you Patrick or Jeffrey, had written
copies of what you were saying, you (to patrick) mentioned you had
done one paper. You didn’t mention this at all in the ibogaine film
and I am very curious about the ibogaine maintenance, I have never
heard of this or seen anything like it published anywhere online.

I have tried email to
digital@ibogaine-research.org
digital@phantom.com
and no replies and I do not have email for Jeffrey Kamlet.
Mindvox is your site isn’t it?

Thank you. I enjoyed the conference very much it was a beautiful
place
and it did feel a lot like walking into a Doors movie as Rachel said
(no offense, I’m sure you’re sick of the Jim Morrison bit, but that
is
so you). Scratch that, the Doors movie played backwards starting with
the heroin train wreck and going past it! I really liked the whole
show but I loved the dope fiend science panel with you, Jeffrey and
Howard. Tremendous show to all of you!

KV

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Krista Vaughan <krista.vaughan@gmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] for Kroupa and Kamlet
Date: March 9, 2005 at 6:35:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have some questions I wanted to ask about the science talk on
ibogaine low dose and especially maintenance when using opiates at the
same time. I’ve never heard of this before and was very interested in
both your talks, most of the best information for me was Kroupa and
Kamlet cross talking to each other on the first day’s panel, but
neither one of you followed it up the next day, you announced the
Miami clinical trials restarting and Kamlet gave a great safety talk
but on the first day the ibogaine movie started and on the second day
neither one of you stuck around.

I wanted most of all to know if you Patrick or Jeffrey, had written
copies of what you were saying, you (to patrick) mentioned you had
done one paper. You didn’t mention this at all in the ibogaine film
and I am very curious about the ibogaine maintenance, I have never
heard of this or seen anything like it published anywhere online.

I have tried email to
digital@ibogaine-research.org
digital@phantom.com
and no replies and I do not have email for Jeffrey Kamlet.
Mindvox is your site isn’t it?

Thank you. I enjoyed the conference very much it was a beautiful place
and it did feel a lot like walking into a Doors movie as Rachel said
(no offense, I’m sure you’re sick of the Jim Morrison bit, but that is
so you). Scratch that, the Doors movie played backwards starting with
the heroin train wreck and going past it! I really liked the whole
show but I loved the dope fiend science panel with you, Jeffrey and
Howard. Tremendous show to all of you!

KV

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From: Andrea Plementos <aplementos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 9, 2005 at 2:37:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ekki and Jon

I truly enjoyed your pieces.  Ekki, I like the fact
that portions of the Ibo samples sound like a digital
gamelan type of instrument, especially Rendrefou(sorry
if I misspelled this) and Nice and Slow.  I love the
idea of the sonification of the Ibogaine molecule, it
is truly ingenious.  Nice and Slow was particularly
hypnotic.

If you are at all interested, there are several
soundbytes of my Ibo pieces online.  They are only
segments of the piece, but they will give you an idea
of what I am doing.  Check them out at your leisure:

http://www.ibogatherapy.org/SoundBytes/default.aspx

There are still a few bugs on the site and it is not
quite finished yet. Windows Media Player seems to
allow only one download per visit, but I hope to have
this fixed shortly.

Regards,
Andrea

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] UK troops on lsd video
Date: March 9, 2005 at 1:15:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yeah, that was very funny…maybe all GW and DC really
need is a big, big swig of cosmic koolaid…

i can dream, can’t i?

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] UK troops on lsd video
Date: March 9, 2005 at 1:10:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

relapsed into laughter; now that’s a slip to slide with.  thanks for that!

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] UK troops on lsd video
Date: March 9, 2005 at 12:46:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

An address for a really great video clip showing British soldiers on LSD was
posted to the maps forum.

Cheers.

Howard

http://hes.iki.fi/video/LSD_Being_Tested_on_Brtish_Troops.mpg

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 9, 2005 at 10:26:12 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.<

maybe u sing a didgeridoo?
I just read that their note for the Earth, the one they play to praise the Earth/earth itself, they play one tuned to a note that is just over c#d, which apparently is, amazingly enough considering they must have come up with it scores of thousands of years ago. This is what the authors of “Civilization One” have to say on the subject (authored by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler) in the Conclusions to the chapter titled Music and Light:

——

Conclusions:

We found that the Megalithic numbers produced circles that combined the mathematical ratios known pi and phi. Both and irrational numbers yet they produced resuilts that are so close to being perect to be negligible. In our investigation we found that an American PhD student had discovered the existence of phi in [Alexander] Thom’s data back in the early 19702- a fact confirmed by the great man himself when he described the finding as ‘magical.’

The all-important numbers 366 and 360 are curiously linked by a combination of pi and phi because 360 divided by 5 gives a result of 72 and 366 divided by pi x phi also gives the resuilt of 72. This suggests that the relationship between the two Megalithic numbers has a fundamental resonance with these two very special rations.

When we turned to the subject of music we found that Megalithic mathematics produces its own structure. Sound is mormally measured in cycles per modern second, known as hertz. (Hz),  but we considered using cycles per Megalithic Second, which we called Thoms (Th). A frequency of 366 Th is the same as 366 Hz, which places our Megalithic note just slightly above C sharp in modern concern tuning. This is effectively thge ‘found of the Earth turning’ because the planet reoatates at a rate of one Megalithic Yard per beat at the equator.

We found the indigenous Australians consider a didgeridoo with a note equal to 366 Th capable of creating sacred Earth music. Further investigation of other indigenous music also revealed Megalithic rhythm and pitch corespondences. It appears that there is an instinctive rtelationship between the rotating mass of the planet and human music. It mayu indeed have been the ‘involuntary’ sense that the mystic and mathematician Pythagoras came to call ‘the harmony of the spheres.’

When we looked at human sight we found that the visible part of the electomagnetic spectrum forms an octave rather like music. What is more, if we move exactly 40 octvaes up the frequency scale from a note of 366 TH we got to blue light. While nearly all scientists believe that light and sound and not connected, we tentatively feel that there might be a resonance between the two that is picked up by human perception.
—-

Personally, if there’s anything I’ve ever taken that put me in touch with what I might consider an Earth spirit realm of some kind, I’d have to say it was ibogaine (and mushrooms and mescaline too- but ibogaine really, really put me into a state of utter weirdness full of what I can only describes as many other places right here in my room and head but not. Earth spirit realms, to get all mumbojumbo sounding. The ibogaine root grows in earth, of the Earth itself, and so I tend to subscribe to the personal notion that substances like ibogaine, mushrooms, peyote, and all the other plant-based trippifiers really could be the link, the key to allow us communications with the Earth it/her/himself, the key that unlocks our minds to the language of the planet we live on- and those who outlaw those substances are embodiements of the literal dark force, the black evil destuctive side of things, the ones who will pave over the Earth and cut us off from all those modes of communication allowing us to actually commune directly with the spirits of the planet and other spaces too all around us.
Wow, I sound stoned, and I’m nott….really all that stoned. It’s all residuals,,,that’s it, that’s the ticket.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening

Am 09.03.2005 um 03:14 schrieb Preston Peet:

Queens of the Stone Age have a song on their Desert Sessions record #5-6, called Teens of Thailand, which begins with a sound effect that in headphones played loud literally sounds exactly like a huge hit of iv cocaine.
The first few times I heard it it would take me by surprise and I’d be hit with that feeling of “holy shit I know that sound…oh yeah, and I know where from too.”

hi Preston, thanks for the hint and the writing was cool, too. i´m
sucking “teens” at the moment.
i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people
hear on ibogaine.
-ekki

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT!) Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 9:47:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I mistakenly and with careless speed scribbled >I didn’t post it for it’s “usefulness” Bill, and I’m not sure why you feel “these stories” should have to be useful at all.< I hate doing that and am extremely embarrassed that I put an apostrophe in “it’s” when it obviously should read “its”- please fogive my humiliating and incredibly gauche usage of that apostrophe. It will NOT happen again.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Bill Eichman wrote >A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.<

Another big LOL!
Bill, you’re new here, right? This list is chock full of folk who insist that some drugs are just evil, and should never be used by anyone ever and that ibogaine is needed to get those people to stop what they’re doing right now because without it their lives are worth little to nothing at all- and with others who are exactly the opposite. What ties us all in together is our interest in ibogaine for whatever reason, or so I myself think about this list and its subscribers and participants.
Just as with any group of people, the differences of opinion here range widely and erratically all across the board, with some of us, like me, insisting that drugs aren’t the real problem, that prohibition is, and others insisting that there isn’t anything good about any drugs at all (except of course ibogaine and sometimes marijuana and even that’s debatable), and others who fall anywhere in between these extremes.

Bill also asked and noted >How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?
What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation.<

You are totally and completely correct to point this out- I mean, take into consideration the number of US figher pilots who use methamphetamines on a daily basis and yet, no troubles whatsoever, and they’re even using the stuff to do their jobs BETTER- imagine that, meth makes it easier to do one’s job. Huh. Of course, after long hours of flying about in a big fast warmachine with little sleep, sometimes accidents do happen, as was the case in Afghanistan a couple years back when some US pilots bombed the shit out of some Canadian troops on the ground while under the influence of both methamphetamines AND lack of sleep. Apparently anyway.
It behooves us all to remember that despite many of our own horrific experiences while abusing hard drugs, and the many stories we have most of us heard and seen lived out by ourselves and by others, not everyone puts themselves through such hell and many if not most people use their drugs both hard and soft, legal and not-so-legal, rationally and with total control, always. Weird how that works, but it’s the reality of things as near as I can tell from my well researched position here.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia,<

Personally? I don’t drink and haven’t in some 20 years or so and wasn’t when this story I posted about the cocaine-influenced hallucinating took place- having been drunk in these last 20 years about, oh, twice, maybe three times total. Yes, there were other drugs involved (heroin in this particular case) but as you yourself noted about lack of sleeping’s effects on folk, an extreme lack of sleep often played a part in my overall experiences, as I was running the streets and staying awake up to five days in a row, over and over and over again, running and shooting and running and shooting until I couldn’t possibly stay awake and score and scam any more money no matter how much cocaine I shot and would finally collapse. But I’m certainly NOT schizophrenic, except under the influence of LOTS of cocaine- and even then I wouldn’t call myself schizophrenic, only manic and somewhat insane- and this is JUST ME I’m talking about.

and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.<

I didn’t post it for it’s “usefulness” Bill, and I’m not sure why you feel “these stories” should have to be useful at all. I posted it as an entertaining misadventure tale I thought other people experienced with many other illegal drugs might enjoy reading and learning about ONE PERSON’S EXPERIENCES- mine.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years, and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you start out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going to
know you are full of shit.

It’s not likely to help Dana’s aquaintance stop using.

A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.

just for the record…methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations and
other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions as
a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)

while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don’t experience
such effects, it isn’t just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them);

How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?

What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When patients
got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
doses didn’t cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also occuring.

My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more authoritative
studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don’t know
of them.

I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw others
display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
heavily with much sleep deprivation.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 9:34:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

to add another crystal anecdote:

friend of mine thought that he was attacked by vampires. he came to my flat and painted black crosses with a magic marker on my door and windows. he brought lots of garlic with him, nevertheless we ordered pizza with garlic. when we ate he sensed some danger so we arranged the pizza slices into a cross which seemed to help. for him this was not funny. ha also had the idea that these vampires were invisible and entered his flat through the electric sockets at the wall and then went right into his brain. he thought he needed to do more crystal to be strong enough to fight them. he later went into treatment and felt ashamed of his vampire trip and focussed more on conspiration theories. his motto is: paranoia is always warranted!
even if this was funny to watch, it was hell for him.
-ekki

Am 09.03.2005 um 14:46 schrieb Ms Iboga:

I would also agree that sleep deprivation probably
plays a big part in the whole psychosis trip.  God
knows, after 3 or 4 days partying(MDMA, ketamine,
weed, dex- I was 19, OK!), I had a pseudo-iboga
experience, except I didn’t have to close my eyes- the
visions were ‘projected’ onto a wall, and I could
interact with them and change them at will.

BUT, my ex had a schizo break after using it at a
rave, only once.  He hadn’t been up for days. Maybe
his neurochemistry/ego was too fragile for a strong
stimulant, or maybe he used some dirty shit, who
knows?

Not only did he shave off his hair/eyebrows, he also
stopped traffic at a busy intersection during
rush-hour, hopped in one of the cars, and told the
driver to drive quickly, cuz the tv cameras/secret
film crew were trying to get each of his moments on
camera, and he didn’t like that.  He ended up in a
psych hospital, and hasn’t been the same ever since.

Of course, this is just an anecdote, and I guess that
doesn’t mean too much.  If someone can use crystal
regularly, with no side effects, more power to them.
I just haven’t seen it happen very often.

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 9, 2005 at 9:24:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hallo jon,
i really enjoyed them!

now randy could write the rocknroll hymn of ibogaine.
!!Hey Randy, how about that? we pussies sit and wait 😉

love
-ekki

Am 09.03.2005 um 03:03 schrieb jon:

preliminary spectral ibotronic songs:
http://www.ekkijdfg.de/IBOHClsound.html

ekki,

thanks very much for the samples =)

i made a couple songs out of em too…

and

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 9, 2005 at 9:10:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 09.03.2005 um 03:14 schrieb Preston Peet:

Queens of the Stone Age have a song on their Desert Sessions record #5-6, called Teens of Thailand, which begins with a sound effect that in headphones played loud literally sounds exactly like a huge hit of iv cocaine.
The first few times I heard it it would take me by surprise and I’d be hit with that feeling of “holy shit I know that sound…oh yeah, and I know where from too.”

hi Preston, thanks for the hint and the writing was cool, too. i´m sucking “teens” at the moment.
i wonder if this could be done for the humming noise a lot of people hear on ibogaine.
-ekki

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 8:46:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would also agree that sleep deprivation probably
plays a big part in the whole psychosis trip.  God
knows, after 3 or 4 days partying(MDMA, ketamine,
weed, dex- I was 19, OK!), I had a pseudo-iboga
experience, except I didn’t have to close my eyes- the
visions were ‘projected’ onto a wall, and I could
interact with them and change them at will.

BUT, my ex had a schizo break after using it at a
rave, only once.  He hadn’t been up for days. Maybe
his neurochemistry/ego was too fragile for a strong
stimulant, or maybe he used some dirty shit, who
knows?

Not only did he shave off his hair/eyebrows, he also
stopped traffic at a busy intersection during
rush-hour, hopped in one of the cars, and told the
driver to drive quickly, cuz the tv cameras/secret
film crew were trying to get each of his moments on
camera, and he didn’t like that.  He ended up in a
psych hospital, and hasn’t been the same ever since.

Of course, this is just an anecdote, and I guess that
doesn’t mean too much.  If someone can use crystal
regularly, with no side effects, more power to them.
I just haven’t seen it happen very often.

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 6:02:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector wrote >I’m not in recovery and I’ve never been a addict, but I notice that
most people go through phases and have different opinions from month to
month depending on how they’re personally feeling.<

That’s very astute an observation Vector, as I myself am guilty of said phases and changing opinions, at least to some degree.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

If anything the more abstinence-everything members of this list get
upset that the list doesn’t demonize drugs enough 😉

You got replies from who read what you wrote on that day and decided to
reply. Try it again next week or on Friday and you will probably get 10
other people to reply who say something different 🙂

I’m not in recovery and I’ve never been a addict, but I notice that
most people go through phases and have different opinions from month to
month depending on how they’re personally feeling.

.:vector:.

— Bill Eichman <bille@penn.com> wrote:
The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical
probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a

family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than
blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty
years,
and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you
start out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are
going to
know you are full of shit.

It’s not likely to help Dana’s aquaintance stop using.

A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual
about
demonizing any chemical.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 5:59:12 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill Eichman wrote >A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.<

Another big LOL!
Bill, you’re new here, right? This list is chock full of folk who insist that some drugs are just evil, and should never be used by anyone ever and that ibogaine is needed to get those people to stop what they’re doing right now because without it their lives are worth little to nothing at all- and with others who are exactly the opposite. What ties us all in together is our interest in ibogaine for whatever reason, or so I myself think about this list and its subscribers and participants.
Just as with any group of people, the differences of opinion here range widely and erratically all across the board, with some of us, like me, insisting that drugs aren’t the real problem, that prohibition is, and others insisting that there isn’t anything good about any drugs at all (except of course ibogaine and sometimes marijuana and even that’s debatable), and others who fall anywhere in between these extremes.

Bill also asked and noted >How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?
What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation.<

You are totally and completely correct to point this out- I mean, take into consideration the number of US figher pilots who use methamphetamines on a daily basis and yet, no troubles whatsoever, and they’re even using the stuff to do their jobs BETTER- imagine that, meth makes it easier to do one’s job. Huh. Of course, after long hours of flying about in a big fast warmachine with little sleep, sometimes accidents do happen, as was the case in Afghanistan a couple years back when some US pilots bombed the shit out of some Canadian troops on the ground while under the influence of both methamphetamines AND lack of sleep. Apparently anyway.
It behooves us all to remember that despite many of our own horrific experiences while abusing hard drugs, and the many stories we have most of us heard and seen lived out by ourselves and by others, not everyone puts themselves through such hell and many if not most people use their drugs both hard and soft, legal and not-so-legal, rationally and with total control, always. Weird how that works, but it’s the reality of things as near as I can tell from my well researched position here.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia,<

Personally? I don’t drink and haven’t in some 20 years or so and wasn’t when this story I posted about the cocaine-influenced hallucinating took place- having been drunk in these last 20 years about, oh, twice, maybe three times total. Yes, there were other drugs involved (heroin in this particular case) but as you yourself noted about lack of sleeping’s effects on folk, an extreme lack of sleep often played a part in my overall experiences, as I was running the streets and staying awake up to five days in a row, over and over and over again, running and shooting and running and shooting until I couldn’t possibly stay awake and score and scam any more money no matter how much cocaine I shot and would finally collapse. But I’m certainly NOT schizophrenic, except under the influence of LOTS of cocaine- and even then I wouldn’t call myself schizophrenic, only manic and somewhat insane- and this is JUST ME I’m talking about.

and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.<

I didn’t post it for it’s “usefulness” Bill, and I’m not sure why you feel “these stories” should have to be useful at all. I posted it as an entertaining misadventure tale I thought other people experienced with many other illegal drugs might enjoy reading and learning about ONE PERSON’S EXPERIENCES- mine.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years, and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you start out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going to
know you are full of shit.

It’s not likely to help Dana’s aquaintance stop using.

A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.

just for the record…methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations and
other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions as
a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)

while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don’t experience
such effects, it isn’t just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them);

How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?

What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When patients
got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
doses didn’t cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also occuring.

My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more authoritative
studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don’t know
of them.

I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw others
display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
heavily with much sleep deprivation.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 5:57:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a
family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than
blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

oh, i certainly agree with that; and i didn’t mean to sound as if i was
demonising meth. however, some drugs present the user with more risks than
others, and meth is one of the riskier drugs out there. while demonising a
drug doesn’t help anyone, neither does down-playing its dangers.

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years,
and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you start
out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going
to
know you are full of shit.

again, i didn’t mean to make meth out as a “monstrous thing”, but it can
definately be a dangerous thing. as i said in my original post, the
majority of meth users won’t experience psychosis; but it is a real risk
of meth use that can be profoundly problematic for people who do
experience it.

and while the percentage of meth users who experience psychosis is a
minority, it is well documented that chronic meth use can cause
debilitating neurocognitive deficits (such as memory loss and attentional
problems) in many chronic users.

i’m all for people making their own choices as to what they put in their
bodies, but i also believe people should be able to make informed choices;
they should be aware of what could conceivably happen if they choose to
use a given drug. as i said in my presentation at the conference recently,
it’s very unfortunate that the government uses scare tacticts to try to
persuade people from taking drugs, because when a drug does really have
some scary effects, like meth, people tend not to believe it.

How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information,
and
not just more drug propaganda?

What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme
dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended
up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When
patients
got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
doses didn’t cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also
occuring.

My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more authoritative
studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don’t know
of them.

a quick search on pubmed for “methamphetamine psychosis” turned up 185
references. for example, here’s two neuroimaging studies:

Iyo M, Sekine Y, Mori N. (2004). Neuromechanism of developing
methamphetamine psychosis: a neuroimaging study. Ann N Y Acad Sci, 288-95.

The long-term use of methamphetamine (MAP) induces a psychotic state,
called MAP psychosis. To understand the neuromechanisms of the persistent
psychosis, we used SPECT, MR spectroscopy (MRS), and PET on the MAP users.
The SPECT study showed a high incidence of multiple patchy deficits in
cerebral blood flow among the users. The MRS study MAP users showed a
significantly reduced ratio of creatine plus phosphocreatine (Cr +
PCr)/choline-containing compounds (Cho) in the brain compared with the
healthy control subjects. In addition, the reduction in the ratio of Cr +
PCr/Cho was significantly correlated with the duration of MAP use and with
the severity of residual psychiatric symptoms. PET revealed no significant
differences between the ex-users of MAP and the healthy controls in the
density of striatal dopamine D2 receptors. On the other hand, the density
of dopamine transporter in the nucleus accumbens and caudate/putamen in
the MAP users was significantly less compared with the controls. This
reduction was significantly correlated with the length of use and severity
of psychotic symptoms. These findings suggest that long-term use of MAP
causes abnormal cerebral blood flow patterns, reduction of brain dopamine
transporter density, and metabolite alteration, which may be closely
related to a susceptibility to MAP psychosis.

Sekine Y, Minabe Y, Ouchi Y, Takei N, Iyo M, Nakamura K, Suzuki K, Tsukada
H, Okada H, Yoshikawa E, Futatsubashi M, Mori N. (2003). Association of
dopamine transporter loss in the orbitofrontal and dorsolateral prefrontal
cortices with methamphetamine-related psychiatric symptoms. Am J
Psychiatry, 160, 1699-701.

The authors examined dopamine transporter density in the orbitofrontal
cortex, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, and amygdala in methamphetamine
users and assessed the relationship of these measures to the subjects’
clinical characteristics. METHOD: Positron emission tomography with
[(11)C]WIN 35,428 was used to examine the regions of interest in 11
methamphetamine users and nine healthy comparison subjects. Psychiatric
symptoms were evaluated with the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale. RESULTS:
Dopamine transporter density in the three regions studied was
significantly lower in the methamphetamine users than in the comparison
subjects. The lower dopamine transporter density in the orbitofrontal and
dorsolateral prefrontal cortex was significantly correlated with the
duration of methamphetamine use and the severity of psychiatric symptoms.
CONCLUSIONS: Chronic methamphetamine use may cause dopamine transporter
reduction in the orbitofrontal cortex, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, and
amygdala in the brain. Psychiatric symptoms in methamphetamine users may
be attributable to the decrease in dopamine transporter density in the
orbitofrontal cortex and the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.

I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw
others
display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
heavily with much sleep deprivation.

I’m happy to hear that you didn’t suffer from some of meth’s more severe
effects, but many meth users are not so lucky.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but
(1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is
concerned.

Researchers have been studying meth’s effects for decades now, and while
it is possible that they have missed some confounding variables that could
contribute to things like psychosis, it’s pretty unlikely. Schizophrenia
is pretty easy to spot, and besides that, methamphetamine psychosis
differs from schizophrenic psychosis in a number of fundamental ways. It’s
also unlikely that other drugs are responsible; stimulant-related
psychosis is pretty distinct from the psychosis that can result from
psychedelics or dissociative anaesthetics.

Frankly, I don’t understand how you could perceive such information as
useless. People should be aware of the risks they are taking when they
choose to ingest a given substance. Heroin users should be aware that
there is a very real risk of death by respiratory depression if they take
too much, even though the majority of heroin users don’t die. Likewise,
methapmhetamine users should be aware of the possibility of experiencing
hallucinations and delusions, and probably more importantly, that they
could end up causing themselves signficant brain damage, even if there’s a
substantial number of meth users who don’t suffer these effects.

To use an analogy.. most people who ride in automobiles don’t end up dying
in car crashes, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to go riding around
without a seat belt.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 5:40:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Todd wrote in friendly and encouraging fashion >Please find the time/energy/motivation to develope it.
When you do ……email me.<

Time? Energy? Motivation? LOL! Todd, it’s published in a book called Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, which is on bookshelves since October 2004 in six countires, in stores like Virgin Megastore, Barnes and Nobels, Marshall’s, Borders, Amazon, etc, etc, and everywhere else fine books are sold too I think. See:

http://www.disinfo.com/site/displayarticle6040.html

My time, energy and motivation are currently directed at other projects though, like finishing the compiling and editing of my second book (Underground- the Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History- due out Sept. 2005) as well as a bit of acting work- and what do you know? I use legal opiates in large amounts every single day while simultaneously contending with excruciating pain issues- yet were I to be doing the same or even much lesser amounts of heroin (very little different than what I’m using now, except for that pesky legal issue thing), I’d be a criminal in need, according to some prohibitionist maniacs and other small minded and prejudiced folk, of jailing and ostracizing and being called names and looked down upon and thought boring and out of touch with life and stuff, and considered less than human to many, including some here.
But come to think of it, I do need to find time and motivation to finish “developing” the story, because as previously noted here, I’m in the middle of putting the entire book (Something in the Way, for which that story was originally written and is still a part of) back into first-person format, as this story is in, and want to further flesh out the whole manuscript, so Todd, you are correct I realize- I DO need to find yet more time, energy and motivation to finish the darn thing and get it published. Thanks for the encouragement and nudge.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Todd Morgan” <sovntm@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:17 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Veeerry compelling story!

Please find the time/energy/motivation to develope it.
When you do ……email me.

Thanks,
Todd

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>It was frightening to see him shaving off his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…<

I’ve never ever been able to quite believe that the
cocaine bugs I suffered
with during the last year of my using IV cocaine on
a regular basis were
really not real (as you’ll see in the following
excerpt and editor’s note
following my message here). Knowing how many
parasites we human beings have
really and truely living on our bodies, my theory
was always, well, I know
how hard I freak out when shooting most if not all
of a $20 bag of cocaine-
so imagine how hard it must hit those teeny tiny
parasites who lives on my
blood and cellular detritus. When tweaking out, my
nerves were super
sensitized, so could it be that I really was feeling
and even catching the
barest of glimpses of real, honest to goodness bugs,
bugs that other
couldn’t or WOULDN’T see due to putting my, or your
ex’s, bug trip down to
our drug abuse hallucinations instead of actual
results of using the drugs
and feeling the results in the parasites living on
ours and everyone’s
bodies.
Just a theory of course. I could of course
really have just been
imaginging those bugs, but darn it, I still just
don’t know.
;-))

The following excerpt is from a story I published in
Under the Influence-
the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, taken from my own
book Something in the
Way, the still as yet unpublished book that is going
to be a best seller and
make me millions…of something, probably hate mail
from prohibitionist
maniacs.

—–

Appendix A-

[TITLE] Haircut:
Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life

[BYLINE] By Preston Peet

—–

[INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book
full of hard journalism
and social commentary. With what you glean from this
book is it hoped that
you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda
driving the War on Some
Drugs and Users and vote for those representatives
who will end the War. Now
it’s time to take a look at the War from a more
personal viewpoint.

The following story is from an unpublished
manuscript of mine titled
Something in the Way, relating my own experiences
strung out on illegal
street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a
junkie living on the streets
under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting
myself as far from my
emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of
hard drugs for years, I’d
first been introduced to opiates during extensive
medical procedures after a
serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to
explain the reasons for
getting high to police and prohibitionists though,
because they did not want
to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While
the way I used to get
high was much of the time extremely
self-destructive, things usually just
got worse once the police got involved.

In this particular story, the police were trying to
do what they thought was
the right thing, but for me it was not the right
thing, it merely gave me
something else to feel guilty over and stress about
when it did not work
out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and
users in this country does
not differentiate between individual users and their
circumstances. A
treatment modality that works well for one person
might and often does only
make matters worse for the next. For that matter,
not everyone who uses or
even abuses drugs is best served by stopping
altogether, which is the
rationale behind long-term methadone maintenance for
instance. It’s time to
stop chasing after the people who find whatever it
is they need in currently
illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to
reduce what harms can and do
sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user
and to society at large.
In the end, without prohibition the following story
simply wouldn’t happen.

On another note, there is some debate about the
reality of the “coke bugs”
mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers
insisting, even years
after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs
were and are real, that
they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself
reserve judgment,
preferring these days to verbally debate the issue
rather than conduct any
more experiments.

Snip-

“Jump in, kid,” says the cop on the passenger side.
Slamming the door shut
behind me, the cop jumps back in, and we begin to
roll. I speak up.
“Excuse me. Do you guys mind if we stop at a
bathroom somewhere so I can,
uh, have a seat for a few minutes before we get
there?” The two cops glance
at one another for a second, then the driver
suggests a park toilet, since
we’re still inside the 72nd Street entrance. The
other cop agrees, so we
drive over to the Sheep’s Meadow toilets. Pulling to
a stop outside the
restroom, the cop opens the side door again. As I
climb out, the cop stops
me.
“Listen. If you’ve got anything, oh, I don’t know,
that you shouldn’t have,
anything illegal, you should dump it here, OK? I
don’t want to have to
arrest you if they find something at the program,
and they will search your
stuff, very thoroughly.” I stare at him for a
moment, then smile.
“Alright. You got it.” I walk into the bathroom.
As with most park toilets anywhere in the world,
these are disgusting. It’s
hard to spend any time in here at all because of the
stench, but I have a
mission. I have to get rid of my drugs. I’m going
clean, and don’t want to
do it in jail. Besides, I don’t want to waste the
stuff I have, and this
will probably be my last chance to inject anything
into myself. I enter one
of the two stalls, hanging my overcoat over the
stall door. I quickly dig
from my pocket the cellophane, taken from a Marlboro
pack, inside of which
are a couple packets of both coke and dope, keeping
dry. I set a cooker on
the toilet paper dispenser, a silver rectangular box
screwed onto the wall
of the stall like a night table, a perfect platform
for preparing my poison.
Opening the one new packet of coke, I dump the whole
thing into the cooker,
a fifteen-dollar bag, then wad up the yellow paper
without licking it and
toss it in the toilet. Some people like that taste,
but not me, having grown
tired over the years of that taste and numbness in
my mouth. Only on the
back of my sinuses after a shot, when I can more
smell it in my head than
taste it on my tongue do I like the taste at all. I
fold up the other,
partially filled packet of cocaine, containing only
a tiny bit, deciding to
smuggle it into the facility with me. It’s the same
with the dope. I save a
little in the bottom of the bag I dump in the cooker
with the coke, and fold
up two packets of dope remnants for later. It’s a
risk, but getting sick is
no fucking joke. To me it’s worth it to try. I take
one of the least used
rigs I’ve got, draw up a little water from a small
plastic bottle I carry,

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 12:32:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If anything the more abstinence-everything members of this list get
upset that the list doesn’t demonize drugs enough 😉

You got replies from who read what you wrote on that day and decided to
reply. Try it again next week or on Friday and you will probably get 10
other people to reply who say something different 🙂

I’m not in recovery and I’ve never been a addict, but I notice that
most people go through phases and have different opinions from month to
month depending on how they’re personally feeling.

.:vector:.

— Bill Eichman <bille@penn.com> wrote:
The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical
probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a

family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than
blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty
years,
and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you
start out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are
going to
know you are full of shit.

It’s not likely to help Dana’s aquaintance stop using.

A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual
about
demonizing any chemical.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 12:23:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The primary point I want to make is that demonizing a chemical probably
helps no-one. (It might help the internal psychological dynamic of a family
trying to cope with addiction, to demonize the chemical rather than blaming
the individual, but that’s another topic.)

There have been tens of millions of meth users in the past fifty years, and
most do not experience ‘demonic’ effects from the drug. So, if you start out
by insisting that the drug is this monstrous thing, most users are going to
know you are full of shit.

It’s not likely to help Dana’s aquaintance stop using.

A secondary point is that I’m surprized that this list is so casual about
demonizing any chemical.

just for the record…methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations and
other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions as
a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)

while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don’t experience
such effects, it isn’t just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them);

How do you know this? How certain are you that this is real information, and
not just more drug propaganda?

What you are saying may be true- but… When I studied the question, which
was some years ago, this was just a theory, supported only by extreme dosage
studies on rat and monkey brains. The clinical evidence, that is, evidence
collected from physicians who were overseeing cases so extreme they ended up
in the hospital, placed primary evidence on sleep deprivation. When patients
got recuperative sleep, symptoms stopped, and the reports were that high
doses didn’t cause delerium unless the sleep deprivation was also occuring.

My sources for this info were from links gathered from alt.drugs posting,
and are some number of years old. Maybe there have been more authoritative
studies confirming the dopamine theory you mention, but if so I don’t know
of them.

I do know that I never experienced such hallucinations, and never saw others
display anything more than fairly mild delerium, usually after drinking
heavily with much sleep deprivation.

These other stories of paranoid hallucinations are terrible stories, but (1)
there may be much information left out about other drugs and alcohol, and
perhaps native schizophrenia, and (2) I don’t see how these stories are
useful as far as dealing with most peoples use of the chemical is concerned.

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From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 9, 2005 at 12:17:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Veeerry compelling story!

Please find the time/energy/motivation to develope it.
When you do ……email me.

Thanks,
Todd

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

It was frightening to see him shaving off his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…<

I’ve never ever been able to quite believe that the
cocaine bugs I suffered
with during the last year of my using IV cocaine on
a regular basis were
really not real (as you’ll see in the following
excerpt and editor’s note
following my message here). Knowing how many
parasites we human beings have
really and truely living on our bodies, my theory
was always, well, I know
how hard I freak out when shooting most if not all
of a $20 bag of cocaine-
so imagine how hard it must hit those teeny tiny
parasites who lives on my
blood and cellular detritus. When tweaking out, my
nerves were super
sensitized, so could it be that I really was feeling
and even catching the
barest of glimpses of real, honest to goodness bugs,
bugs that other
couldn’t or WOULDN’T see due to putting my, or your
ex’s, bug trip down to
our drug abuse hallucinations instead of actual
results of using the drugs
and feeling the results in the parasites living on
ours and everyone’s
bodies.
Just a theory of course. I could of course
really have just been
imaginging those bugs, but darn it, I still just
don’t know.
;-))

The following excerpt is from a story I published in
Under the Influence-
the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, taken from my own
book Something in the
Way, the still as yet unpublished book that is going
to be a best seller and
make me millions…of something, probably hate mail
from prohibitionist
maniacs.

—–

Appendix A-

[TITLE] Haircut:
Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life

[BYLINE] By Preston Peet

—–

[INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book
full of hard journalism
and social commentary. With what you glean from this
book is it hoped that
you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda
driving the War on Some
Drugs and Users and vote for those representatives
who will end the War. Now
it’s time to take a look at the War from a more
personal viewpoint.

The following story is from an unpublished
manuscript of mine titled
Something in the Way, relating my own experiences
strung out on illegal
street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a
junkie living on the streets
under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting
myself as far from my
emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of
hard drugs for years, I’d
first been introduced to opiates during extensive
medical procedures after a
serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to
explain the reasons for
getting high to police and prohibitionists though,
because they did not want
to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While
the way I used to get
high was much of the time extremely
self-destructive, things usually just
got worse once the police got involved.

In this particular story, the police were trying to
do what they thought was
the right thing, but for me it was not the right
thing, it merely gave me
something else to feel guilty over and stress about
when it did not work
out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and
users in this country does
not differentiate between individual users and their
circumstances. A
treatment modality that works well for one person
might and often does only
make matters worse for the next. For that matter,
not everyone who uses or
even abuses drugs is best served by stopping
altogether, which is the
rationale behind long-term methadone maintenance for
instance. It’s time to
stop chasing after the people who find whatever it
is they need in currently
illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to
reduce what harms can and do
sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user
and to society at large.
In the end, without prohibition the following story
simply wouldn’t happen.

On another note, there is some debate about the
reality of the “coke bugs”
mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers
insisting, even years
after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs
were and are real, that
they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself
reserve judgment,
preferring these days to verbally debate the issue
rather than conduct any
more experiments.

Snip-

“Jump in, kid,” says the cop on the passenger side.
Slamming the door shut
behind me, the cop jumps back in, and we begin to
roll. I speak up.
“Excuse me. Do you guys mind if we stop at a
bathroom somewhere so I can,
uh, have a seat for a few minutes before we get
there?” The two cops glance
at one another for a second, then the driver
suggests a park toilet, since
we’re still inside the 72nd Street entrance. The
other cop agrees, so we
drive over to the Sheep’s Meadow toilets. Pulling to
a stop outside the
restroom, the cop opens the side door again. As I
climb out, the cop stops
me.
“Listen. If you’ve got anything, oh, I don’t know,
that you shouldn’t have,
anything illegal, you should dump it here, OK? I
don’t want to have to
arrest you if they find something at the program,
and they will search your
stuff, very thoroughly.” I stare at him for a
moment, then smile.
“Alright. You got it.” I walk into the bathroom.
As with most park toilets anywhere in the world,
these are disgusting. It’s
hard to spend any time in here at all because of the
stench, but I have a
mission. I have to get rid of my drugs. I’m going
clean, and don’t want to
do it in jail. Besides, I don’t want to waste the
stuff I have, and this
will probably be my last chance to inject anything
into myself. I enter one
of the two stalls, hanging my overcoat over the
stall door. I quickly dig
from my pocket the cellophane, taken from a Marlboro
pack, inside of which
are a couple packets of both coke and dope, keeping
dry. I set a cooker on
the toilet paper dispenser, a silver rectangular box
screwed onto the wall
of the stall like a night table, a perfect platform
for preparing my poison.
Opening the one new packet of coke, I dump the whole
thing into the cooker,
a fifteen-dollar bag, then wad up the yellow paper
without licking it and
toss it in the toilet. Some people like that taste,
but not me, having grown
tired over the years of that taste and numbness in
my mouth. Only on the
back of my sinuses after a shot, when I can more
smell it in my head than
taste it on my tongue do I like the taste at all. I
fold up the other,
partially filled packet of cocaine, containing only
a tiny bit, deciding to
smuggle it into the facility with me. It’s the same
with the dope. I save a
little in the bottom of the bag I dump in the cooker
with the coke, and fold
up two packets of dope remnants for later. It’s a
risk, but getting sick is
no fucking joke. To me it’s worth it to try. I take
one of the least used
rigs I’ve got, draw up a little water from a small
plastic bottle I carry,

=== message truncated ===

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] .
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:45:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:22:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

🙂 Thanks 🙂

— jon <jfreed1@umbc.edu> wrote:

preliminary spectral ibotronic songs:
http://www.ekkijdfg.de/IBOHClsound.html

ekki,

thanks very much for the samples =)

i made a couple songs out of em too…

and

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:21:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love paranoid stories 🙂  It’s just a way.
Just another way of seeing, that’s all, each way has
pro’s and con’s.  I guess some ‘defense mechs’ cannot
be consiouslly realized, that’s ok.
Shaving Everything, (everything) before Ibogaine
journey sounds like a resonable idea to me.  What!!?
that’s crazy.  I’ve read the big book cover to cover
many times and I didn’t see nuddin ’bout dat.
Yeah, well, you know,  it Grow back New.

I do have to agree, cold medicine concentrait is
VERY overrated.  And tweakers get old quick, they are
like crackHeadz, but at least crackHeadz know they are
crackHeadz.  Tweakers think they are more on par with
Herb LOL.  It’s like a gay hillbilly thing.
NA’s mostly tweakers I think.  The boy/girl peeps
mostly just move on.
I’m ok hanging with tweakers for a little while, I
give them a few benzo’s to calm them down a bit if I’m
there for more then an hour.
Met this tweaker chick back in day (tweakers were
easy money to a desperate heroin junkie), she like
used to peel batteries and shoot ’em if she couldn’t
score the more traditional recipie.  Looking back on
it now, I’m glad I got some form of payment for
listening to her go on and on about absolutely nothing
of interest.  Like I seem to be doing at this very
moment.

<cut to Matrix scene where he wakes up and sees the
endless human batteries in both directions>

<sound of toilet flushing>

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Jasen,

What you have described sounds like what happened to
my ex…It was frightening to see him shaving off
his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…

Crystal methamphetamine: WORST DRUG EVER….

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:14:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what coke iv does to your ear is just amazing. as if you enter a
cathedral. all the sounds seem to have a golden reverb. with synthetic
coke its more as if everything is send through resonant digital
filters. with freebase you have the feeling you can hear every sound no
matter how quiet around 3 kilometers. some people suffering
shizophrenia have very fine ears, too.<

Queens of the Stone Age have a song on their Desert Sessions record #5-6, called Teens of Thailand, which begins with a sound effect that in headphones played loud literally sounds exactly like a huge hit of iv cocaine.
The first few times I heard it it would take me by surprise and I’d be hit with that feeling of “holy shit I know that sound…oh yeah, and I know where from too.”

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] listening

Am 08.03.2005 um 22:02 schrieb Preston Peet:

Before I can even get the needle out of my arm, I feel the rush of the shot. It slams into my head and heart, the pounding of my pulse quickly filling my ears with an overwhelming crescendo of sound.

what coke iv does to your ear is just amazing. as if you enter a cathedral. all the sounds seem to have a golden reverb. with synthetic coke its more as if everything is send through resonant digital filters. with freebase you have the feeling you can hear every sound no matter how quiet around 3 kilometers. some people suffering shizophrenia have very fine ears, too.
any form of amphetamines does wonders for listening to music. djs and producers like it to make sound throughout the whole night (and the following day). the lack of sleep itself is great for increasing hearing abilities, too.

in the long run i felt my aural sensibility was destroyed by drugs and it is getting better since ibogaine.

preliminary spectral ibotronic songs:
http://www.ekkijdfg.de/IBOHClsound.html

l8r
ekki

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:06:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen wrote >My brother would run into my place holding his heart
saying, “help me, they are beaming me with there electric beams”, with a
look of shock and pain on his face,I would run out with him and say
where?where? and he would
say over there, there was not ever anyone there. I would walk with him to
where these people were supposed to be and as we would get there he would
have a puzzled look on his face then say there really good at hiding, that
they wanted me to think he was mad. I knew he wasn’t mad, however I could
see he was most definitely hallucinating.<

I apologize for seemingly always having a story to match so many stories posted here, but for some reason I do seem to often have one or more to go along with something posted here, as in the following:

http://www.drugwar.com/pcentral_park_schizo.shtm

Central Park Schizo
(excerpted chapter from Something in the Way by Preston Peet)

snip-

So he builds his habit up nice and huge, way out of proportion to any sort of sane, manageable level. Spending nearly every penny on cocaine and heroin, trying to kill all feelings of being human, all the guilt and loneliness, takes a toll on him in ways he never expected. Thomas has, since living in the park, gotten high with a number of really fucked-up people, who when they shoot their drugs instantly begin to act nuts, doing things like stripping and ripping off all their clothes, or if indoors, they might lock the door, then shove all the furniture in the room over in front of the door to keep out the monsters, or the devil, or whatever it is they fear. Each time this has happened, Thomas takes it in stride, realizing this is not right, but never considering that he too will one day have to face the same kinds of demons. He has ingested every kind of hallucinatory drug he could get his hands on at one time or another throughout his career, acid, mushrooms, mescaline, and more. He thinks he knows what tripping and hallucinating are all about. But he has no idea until he experiences what becomes normal operating procedure: Cocaine Psychosis.

He takes his drugs one beautiful, bright, sunny Summer day to an old, dry fountain not far from Strawberry Field and Sheep’s Meadow, but still enough out of the way to feel somewhat safe getting high. Taking a seat at the far side of the fountain on a wall at the bottom of a kudzu covered hill, he takes out his paraphernalia, all the tools he needs to get off, and sets to work doing just that. He is a professional, able to get everything done very quickly and surreptitiously, loving nothing more than the kick of getting high out in the open, so blatantly no one ever notices. At least so far. He continuously looks around scoping out the area, noticing 2 or 3 people sitting together off to the right a few hundred feet away under a small tree on the grass, but spots no one else.

He has the needle in his arm quickly, but right as he is shoving in the plunder, pushing the generous speedball into his vein, he distinctly hears a voice from the top of the hill behind him, behind the bushes at the top.

(image)
old, dry fountain

“Ok boys, lets get ‘im!” Then comes the sounds of many running feet as though a squad of the undercover cops that patrol the park are coming to arrest him.

“Holy shit!” Thomas exclaims out loud as he panics. The drugs are causing his senses to go completely haywire, combined with the terror he’s experiencing. His hearing is gone now, his pounding, racing heartbeat filling his ears with the sound of how he imagines a strobe light would sound if it made sound rather than light. Leaping to his feet, Thomas chucks the works and drugs still in his hand back behind him into the kudzu, then turns and walks steadily away towards the fountain, forcing himself to keep a slow pace, not wanting the cops to have any excuse to tackle him, or think he knows they are coming for him at all. The old “don’t look at them and maybe they will go away” trick actually works, much to his consternation.

Reaching the edge of the dry fountain, he glances behind him to see how close they are to him, but is staggered to find no one there. No running cops, and no sounds of cops. When he looks to see if others are noticing anything strange, not even the people he’d seen under the little tree out in the grass are there now. Maybe they’d seen him leap to his feet, and deciding they wanted nothing to do with him split, or maybe they weren’t even there to begin with. But that can’t be. He saw them before he shot up. Still dealing with the initial rush of the shot, thinking is difficult, but he has trouble believing he hallucinated that voice, or those footsteps. Looking around wildly, he thinks he spots one of the picnickers from before, apparently hiding from him behind another skinny little tree like the first one they were under. Coke can really screw up his vision, making everything blurry, hard for him to focus, and the sun helps keep the figure hidden in shadow. But whoever it is, Thomas can tell they are watching him, and he hears creepy laughter.

“Are they laughing at me?” he wonders. He has to find out.

Before he reaches the tree, the person is no longer there, having managed to make it over to a large clump of bushes without Thomas seeing. Thomas begins catching glimpses of two or three different people in the bushes, though again only as silhouettes and shadows. Thinking perhaps they are trying to draw him closer to the bushes so they can grab him and beat him up, he begins to address the shadows.

“Who’s there?” he asks, but gets no answer other than quiet rustling, and that weird laughter. He tries again, in a firmer voice. “Quit playing games with me, and come on out!” There’s still no answer, so Thomas looks around for help. He tries to stop one guy walking by on the footpath, but the guy keeps moving, giving him a wide berth. Then a young couple comes up the path. Thomas stops them by stepping out in front of them.

“Excuse me, can you tell me if you see anyone in these bushes?” As he says it, he can hear himself and how bizarre he sounds, so he instantly attempts to come up with a rational explanation for his question to try and ease their obvious anxiety. “See, I was smoking a big joint with some friends, for the first time in a long time, and they’ve run off, and now they’re fucking with me, and I….” They run off before he can finish babbling at them. Thomas looks down at his arm, which the girl had been staring at, and finds that in his blind panic he’d forgotten to clean off the blood that has since run freely down his arm in long, red rivulets from his elbow to his wrist. Pulling down his sleeve, he is overcome with paranoia, thinking maybe that nice young couple will run find a cop, that the police must now be definitely moving in on him, right at this moment.

After finally gathering the nerve to run past the clump of bushes where the snickering shadows may or may not be hunkered waiting to pounce, Thomas heads towards Sheep’s Meadow, seeing undercover police literally everywhere, circling, talking into their collars on their secret radios, making special police hand signals to one another, getting ready to snatch and arrest him. He wanders for a few more minutes in sheer terror, until he runs into Jay, one of the guys who’d first brought him to Strawberry Fields. Jay recognizes what’s happening as soon as Thomas starts pointing out joggers all the way on the other side of Sheep’s Meadow.

(image)
Sheep’s Meadow

“Look Jay, there, those joggers, they’re COPS!” Trying not to laugh, Jay stays with Thomas, reassuring him every time he begins to loose control and wants to run in fear, walking him out of the park to 5th Avenue, alongside the East side of Central Park. Jay then sits with Thomas until the fear passes, and the craziness goes away.

Thomas had been completely, unabashedly terrified, like never before in his entire life. If Jay had not come along when he did, there’s no telling what would have happened to him. Everything he’d seen and heard seemed 100 percent real to him. He could tell he was hallucinating, but hadn’t been able to stop nor deal with it as if they were merely trippy visions. As horrifying as the experience is, as soon as he is able to see straight, and not see cops everywhere, Thomas offers to share the rest of the drugs he didn’t throw away into the kudzu with Jay, who gladly accepts. They get up and walk back into the park to Strawberry Fields, where they know they can get high in peace.

——

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Hello Bill,

As I am sure you are aware addiction is not just about physically withdrawing, actually this is the easiest part for me. Meth/speed users can and do most definitely get ultra paranoid and have hallucinations. Your case is obviously different. I have known quite a few including family.What can also be addicting is
the sex,..as I am sure you are aware,..as also with good coke.I have also known people that don’t hallucinate.

My brother was a very sane person,..and is getting his sanity back slowly,..it has been a year,..he used large amounts. I also knew a guy,..my ex girlfriends brother who used large amounts of speed and crystal and he would also flip out. My brother would run into my place holding his heart saying, “help me, they are beaming me with there electric beams”, with a look of shock and pain on his face,I would run out with him and say where?where? and he would
say over there, there was not ever anyone there. I would walk with him to where these people were supposed to be and as we would get there he would have a puzzled look on his face then say there really good at hiding, that they wanted me to think he was mad. I knew he wasn’t mad, however I could see he was most definitely hallucinating.

Good to here that you got away from it,..considering this is what you wanted.

with love,
Jasen.

—- Original Message —– From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:47 AM
Subject: re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I’m pretty surprised to see an addiction list that usually doesn’t have that
bad of info about opiates spreading such misinformation about
methamphetamine.

Like most opiate and cocaine users, most meth users don’t hallucinate or
become instant raving psychotic criminals. Meth isn’t physically addictive,
unlike alcohol, tobacco, opiates, barbituates, xanax and related chemicals.
It is very strongly psychologically habit forming, but a person can stop
taking it with no side effects beyond exhaustion (if they haven’t been
sleeping) and anhedonia (common to all stmulants).

People hallucinate when they have been taking so much meth that they don’t
sleep for days on end- the hallucinations probably come from sleep
deprivation, (which has been proven to cause delerium and hallucinations)
there is no good evidence that the hallucinations come from the chemical.

Meth is the demonic drug du jour of the media right now- which should make
any reasonable person suspicious of the media claims.

Can it be a huge problem for some people? Abso-fucking-lutely! Does it
destroy your teeth with regular use? Yes, it does. Am I glad I don’t use it
anymore? Yes, I am. Was it hard to get off? No, not really, once I stopped
using, other than a psychological wistfullness for the feeling, there was no
other craving.

Anyway, most of what has been said here is distorted, when it isn’t complete
nonsense.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:03:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

preliminary spectral ibotronic songs:
http://www.ekkijdfg.de/IBOHClsound.html

ekki,

thanks very much for the samples =)

i made a couple songs out of em too…

and

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 8, 2005 at 7:47:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Shell,

I used Kava Kava, Mexican Valerian , passionflower and Fibroplex plus by Metagenics which is a magnesium formula. One biggie was exercise, I didn’t want to exercise, believe me, I did not have the energy. The Fibroplex plus also helps big time with anxiety.

It is good to hear you say, “things are good for me now”.  5htp converts to melatonin .Also take b6 Zinc and a b complex, take the b’s in the morning and afternoon not at night. This is part of what I did. I would also have a smoke before bed (joint). Go girl.  🙂

love,
Jasen.

From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 12:51 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo

Hey All ,so glad to see so many keeping clean, things are good for me now! But I’m gonna grill yall for any tips you might have about the post ibo insomnia, I’m trying 5htp,b12,melatonin,an herbal blend for sleep ,chinese herbs,acupuncture, any one know anything else?love shell

 

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 7:26:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jon,

This has been exactly my experience, and what I have seen.
—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 9:29 AM
Subject: re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

just for the record…methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations and
other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions as
a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)

while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don’t experience
such effects, it isn’t just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them); meth itself can
cause them in sufficient doses, and/or when used chronically. meth
withdrawal can also result in psychotic symptoms, due to the
down-regulation of dopamine receptors following chronic exposure to meth.

meth is also considerably more toxic than many other drugs of abuse, and
is one of the most damaging recreational drugs to the brain. there is some
evidence now that meth-induced brain damage can repair itself somewhat
following prolonged abstinence; but even after being off meth for a long
time, ex-chronic meth users show more neurocognitive impairment than users
of most other drugs.

and while i’d agree that the media is overly hyping meth-related problems
at the moment, it is true that meth users (as well as cocaine users to a
somewhat lesser degree) tend to exhibit more “dangerous” behaviours than
opiate users, and more frequently get into trouble with the law.
presumably this is because of the strong behavioural disinhibiting effect
of meth, which can often lead to increased aggression and violence, as
well as increased risky sexual behaviours. cocaine has a similar effect,
but it doesn’t last as long.

anyhow, i’m glad to hear you got off it ok =)

I’m pretty surprised to see an addiction list that usually doesn’t have
that
bad of info about opiates spreading such misinformation about
methamphetamine.

Like most opiate and cocaine users, most meth users don’t hallucinate or
become instant raving psychotic criminals. Meth isn’t physically
addictive,
unlike alcohol, tobacco, opiates, barbituates, xanax and related
chemicals.
It is very strongly psychologically habit forming, but a person can stop
taking it with no side effects beyond exhaustion (if they haven’t been
sleeping) and anhedonia (common to all stmulants).

People hallucinate when they have been taking so much meth that they don’t
sleep for days on end- the hallucinations probably come from sleep
deprivation, (which has been proven to cause delerium and hallucinations)
there is no good evidence that the hallucinations come from the chemical.

Meth is the demonic drug du jour of the media right now- which should make
any reasonable person suspicious of the media claims.

Can it be a huge problem for some people? Abso-fucking-lutely! Does it
destroy your teeth with regular use? Yes, it does. Am I glad I don’t use
it
anymore? Yes, I am. Was it hard to get off? No, not really, once I stopped
using, other than a psychological wistfullness for the feeling, there was
no
other craving.

Anyway, most of what has been said here is distorted, when it isn’t
complete
nonsense.

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] listening
Date: March 8, 2005 at 7:23:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 08.03.2005 um 22:02 schrieb Preston Peet:

Before I can even get the needle out of my arm, I feel the rush of the shot. It slams into my head and heart, the pounding of my pulse quickly filling my ears with an overwhelming crescendo of sound.

what coke iv does to your ear is just amazing. as if you enter a cathedral. all the sounds seem to have a golden reverb. with synthetic coke its more as if everything is send through resonant digital filters. with freebase you have the feeling you can hear every sound no matter how quiet around 3 kilometers. some people suffering shizophrenia have very fine ears, too.
any form of amphetamines does wonders for listening to music. djs and producers like it to make sound throughout the whole night (and the following day). the lack of sleep itself is great for increasing hearing abilities, too.

in the long run i felt my aural sensibility was destroyed by drugs and it is getting better since ibogaine.

preliminary spectral ibotronic songs:
http://www.ekkijdfg.de/IBOHClsound.html

l8r
ekki

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 7:23:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Bill,

As I am sure you are aware addiction is not just about physically withdrawing, actually this is the easiest part for me. Meth/speed users can and do most definitely get ultra paranoid and have hallucinations.  Your case is obviously different. I have known quite a few including family.What can also be addicting is
the sex,..as I am sure you are aware,..as also with good coke.I have also known people that don’t hallucinate.

My brother was a very sane person,..and is getting his sanity back slowly,..it has been a year,..he used large amounts. I also knew a guy,..my ex girlfriends brother who used large amounts of speed and crystal and he would also flip out. My brother would run into my place holding his heart saying, “help me, they are beaming me with there electric beams”, with a look of shock and pain on his face,I would run out with him and say where?where? and he would
say over there, there was not ever anyone there. I would walk with him to where these people were supposed to be and as we would get there he would have a puzzled look on his face then say there really good at hiding, that they wanted me to think he was mad. I knew he wasn’t mad, however I could see he was most definitely hallucinating.

Good to here that you got away from it,..considering this is what you wanted.

with love,
Jasen.

—- Original Message —– From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:47 AM
Subject: re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I’m pretty surprised to see an addiction list that usually doesn’t have that
bad of info about opiates spreading such misinformation about
methamphetamine.

Like most opiate and cocaine users, most meth users don’t hallucinate or
become instant raving psychotic criminals. Meth isn’t physically addictive,
unlike alcohol, tobacco, opiates, barbituates, xanax and related chemicals.
It is very strongly psychologically habit forming, but a person can stop
taking it with no side effects beyond exhaustion (if they haven’t been
sleeping) and anhedonia (common to all stmulants).

People hallucinate when they have been taking so much meth that they don’t
sleep for days on end- the hallucinations probably come from sleep
deprivation, (which has been proven to cause delerium and hallucinations)
there is no good evidence that the hallucinations come from the chemical.

Meth is the demonic drug du jour of the media right now- which should make
any reasonable person suspicious of the media claims.

Can it be a huge problem for some people? Abso-fucking-lutely! Does it
destroy your teeth with regular use? Yes, it does. Am I glad I don’t use it
anymore? Yes, I am. Was it hard to get off? No, not really, once I stopped
using, other than a psychological wistfullness for the feeling, there was no
other craving.

Anyway, most of what has been said here is distorted, when it isn’t complete
nonsense.

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 6:29:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

just for the record…methamphetamine can indeed induce hallucinations and
other psychotic symptoms (paranoia, delusions, etc) due to its actions as
a powerful dopamine agonist. (remember, anti-psychotic drugs basically
work by doing the opposite of what meth does.)

while it is probably true that the majority of meth users don’t experience
such effects, it isn’t just the lack of sleep that causes the psychotic
symptoms (though that almost certainly aggravates them); meth itself can
cause them in sufficient doses, and/or when used chronically. meth
withdrawal can also result in psychotic symptoms, due to the
down-regulation of dopamine receptors following chronic exposure to meth.

meth is also considerably more toxic than many other drugs of abuse, and
is one of the most damaging recreational drugs to the brain. there is some
evidence now that meth-induced brain damage can repair itself somewhat
following prolonged abstinence; but even after being off meth for a long
time, ex-chronic meth users show more neurocognitive impairment than users
of most other drugs.

and while i’d agree that the media is overly hyping meth-related problems
at the moment, it is true that meth users (as well as cocaine users to a
somewhat lesser degree) tend to exhibit more “dangerous” behaviours than
opiate users, and more frequently get into trouble with the law.
presumably this is because of the strong behavioural disinhibiting effect
of meth, which can often lead to increased aggression and violence, as
well as increased risky sexual behaviours. cocaine has a similar effect,
but it doesn’t last as long.

anyhow, i’m glad to hear you got off it ok =)

I’m pretty surprised to see an addiction list that usually doesn’t have
that
bad of info about opiates spreading such misinformation about
methamphetamine.

Like most opiate and cocaine users, most meth users don’t hallucinate or
become instant raving psychotic criminals. Meth isn’t physically
addictive,
unlike alcohol, tobacco, opiates, barbituates, xanax and related
chemicals.
It is very strongly psychologically habit forming, but a person can stop
taking it with no side effects beyond exhaustion (if they haven’t been
sleeping) and anhedonia (common to all stmulants).

People hallucinate when they have been taking so much meth that they don’t
sleep for days on end- the hallucinations probably come from sleep
deprivation, (which has been proven to cause delerium and hallucinations)
there is no good evidence that the hallucinations come from the chemical.

Meth is the demonic drug du jour of the media right now- which should make
any reasonable person suspicious of the media claims.

Can it be a huge problem for some people? Abso-fucking-lutely! Does it
destroy your teeth with regular use? Yes, it does. Am I glad I don’t use
it
anymore? Yes, I am. Was it hard to get off? No, not really, once I stopped
using, other than a psychological wistfullness for the feeling, there was
no
other craving.

Anyway, most of what has been said here is distorted, when it isn’t
complete
nonsense.

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From: “Michelle” <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 6:21:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People hallucinate when they have been taking so much meth that they
don’t
sleep for days on end- the hallucinations probably come from sleep
deprivation, (which has been proven to cause delerium and
hallucinations)
there is no good evidence that the hallucinations come from the
chemical.

It’s funny, of the first 28 days since WD, I slept on a total of 8
nights. I didn’t come close to hallucinating, but I was experiencing a
lot of anxiety.
Of course, I was never up for more than 3 days.

michelle

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From: “Bill Eichman” <bille@penn.com>
Subject: re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 5:47:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m pretty surprised to see an addiction list that usually doesn’t have that
bad of info about opiates spreading such misinformation about
methamphetamine.

Like most opiate and cocaine users, most meth users don’t hallucinate or
become instant raving psychotic criminals. Meth isn’t physically addictive,
unlike alcohol, tobacco, opiates, barbituates, xanax and related chemicals.
It is very strongly psychologically habit forming, but a person can stop
taking it with no side effects beyond exhaustion (if they haven’t been
sleeping) and anhedonia (common to all stmulants).

People hallucinate when they have been taking so much meth that they don’t
sleep for days on end- the hallucinations probably come from sleep
deprivation, (which has been proven to cause delerium and hallucinations)
there is no good evidence that the hallucinations come from the chemical.

Meth is the demonic drug du jour of the media right now- which should make
any reasonable person suspicious of the media claims.

Can it be a huge problem for some people? Abso-fucking-lutely! Does it
destroy your teeth with regular use? Yes, it does. Am I glad I don’t use it
anymore? Yes, I am. Was it hard to get off? No, not really, once I stopped
using, other than a psychological wistfullness for the feeling, there was no
other craving.

Anyway, most of what has been said here is distorted, when it isn’t complete
nonsense.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 4:02:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was frightening to see him shaving off his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…<

I’ve never ever been able to quite believe that the cocaine bugs I suffered with during the last year of my using IV cocaine on a regular basis were really not real (as you’ll see in the following excerpt and editor’s note following my message here). Knowing how many parasites we human beings have really and truely living on our bodies, my theory was always, well, I know how hard I freak out when shooting most if not all of a $20 bag of cocaine- so imagine how hard it must hit those teeny tiny parasites who lives on my blood and cellular detritus. When tweaking out, my nerves were super sensitized, so could it be that I really was feeling and even catching the barest of glimpses of real, honest to goodness bugs, bugs that other couldn’t or WOULDN’T see due to putting my, or your ex’s, bug trip down to our drug abuse hallucinations instead of actual results of using the drugs and feeling the results in the parasites living on ours and everyone’s bodies.
Just a theory of course. I could of course really have just been imaginging those bugs, but darn it, I still just don’t know.
;-))

The following excerpt is from a story I published in Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs, taken from my own book Something in the Way, the still as yet unpublished book that is going to be a best seller and make me millions…of something, probably hate mail from prohibitionist maniacs.

—–

Appendix A-

[TITLE] Haircut:
Trippin’ Through a Day in the Life

[BYLINE] By Preston Peet

—–

[INTRO] Editor’s note- Under the Influence is a book full of hard journalism and social commentary. With what you glean from this book is it hoped that you will be able to see past the lies and propaganda driving the War on Some Drugs and Users and vote for those representatives who will end the War. Now it’s time to take a look at the War from a more personal viewpoint.

The following story is from an unpublished manuscript of mine titled Something in the Way, relating my own experiences strung out on illegal street drugs, trying to make it day to day as a junkie living on the streets under prohibition policies. Dedicated to getting myself as far from my emotions and chronic pain as possible using lots of hard drugs for years, I’d first been introduced to opiates during extensive medical procedures after a serious car accident in my teens. It never helped to explain the reasons for getting high to police and prohibitionists though, because they did not want to know. To them, all illicit drug use is bad. While the way I used to get high was much of the time extremely self-destructive, things usually just got worse once the police got involved.

In this particular story, the police were trying to do what they thought was the right thing, but for me it was not the right thing, it merely gave me something else to feel guilty over and stress about when it did not work out. The way we treat most illicit drug use and users in this country does not differentiate between individual users and their circumstances. A treatment modality that works well for one person might and often does only make matters worse for the next. For that matter, not everyone who uses or even abuses drugs is best served by stopping altogether, which is the rationale behind long-term methadone maintenance for instance. It’s time to stop chasing after the people who find whatever it is they need in currently illicit drugs, and to start thinking of ways to reduce what harms can and do sometimes accrue from drug abuse to both the user and to society at large. In the end, without prohibition the following story simply wouldn’t happen.

On another note, there is some debate about the reality of the “coke bugs” mentioned in this story, with some cocaine abusers insisting, even years after stopping their use of cocaine, that the bugs were and are real, that they really aren’t hallucinations at all. I myself reserve judgment, preferring these days to verbally debate the issue rather than conduct any more experiments.

Snip-

“Jump in, kid,” says the cop on the passenger side. Slamming the door shut behind me, the cop jumps back in, and we begin to roll. I speak up.
“Excuse me. Do you guys mind if we stop at a bathroom somewhere so I can, uh, have a seat for a few minutes before we get there?” The two cops glance at one another for a second, then the driver suggests a park toilet, since we’re still inside the 72nd Street entrance. The other cop agrees, so we drive over to the Sheep’s Meadow toilets. Pulling to a stop outside the restroom, the cop opens the side door again. As I climb out, the cop stops me.
“Listen. If you’ve got anything, oh, I don’t know, that you shouldn’t have, anything illegal, you should dump it here, OK? I don’t want to have to arrest you if they find something at the program, and they will search your stuff, very thoroughly.” I stare at him for a moment, then smile.
“Alright. You got it.” I walk into the bathroom.
As with most park toilets anywhere in the world, these are disgusting. It’s hard to spend any time in here at all because of the stench, but I have a mission. I have to get rid of my drugs. I’m going clean, and don’t want to do it in jail. Besides, I don’t want to waste the stuff I have, and this will probably be my last chance to inject anything into myself. I enter one of the two stalls, hanging my overcoat over the stall door. I quickly dig from my pocket the cellophane, taken from a Marlboro pack, inside of which are a couple packets of both coke and dope, keeping dry. I set a cooker on the toilet paper dispenser, a silver rectangular box screwed onto the wall of the stall like a night table, a perfect platform for preparing my poison. Opening the one new packet of coke, I dump the whole thing into the cooker, a fifteen-dollar bag, then wad up the yellow paper without licking it and toss it in the toilet. Some people like that taste, but not me, having grown tired over the years of that taste and numbness in my mouth. Only on the back of my sinuses after a shot, when I can more smell it in my head than taste it on my tongue do I like the taste at all. I fold up the other, partially filled packet of cocaine, containing only a tiny bit, deciding to smuggle it into the facility with me. It’s the same with the dope. I save a little in the bottom of the bag I dump in the cooker with the coke, and fold up two packets of dope remnants for later. It’s a risk, but getting sick is no fucking joke. To me it’s worth it to try. I take one of the least used rigs I’ve got, draw up a little water from a small plastic bottle I carry, then squirt forty mills of water onto the brown and white powders sitting in the cooker. Already very high, I usually wouldn’t be doing more so soon after the last shot, certainly not this much at one go. I hope the dope will help cut the effects of the coke and keep my heart from exploding. My hands move by rote, having performed this ritual hundreds of times before. Quickly tying off, I tap for a vein in my left wrist, getting one to stand out right away. I hit it fast, and once the rig is red with blood, quickly push the whole shot into my vein.
Before I can even get the needle out of my arm, I feel the rush of the shot. It slams into my head and heart, the pounding of my pulse quickly filling my ears with an overwhelming crescendo of sound. My skin is suddenly crawling with what feels like hundreds, thousands, of nearly microscopic bugs, beginning at the corners of my mouth and nostrils and spreading, along with the drugs now in my system, right down to my toes. My fingertips come alive, and I lift them up to my face, trying to make out the little critters, but they’re too small. I don’t remember sitting down, but now I’m perched on the edge of the disgusting toilet. God only knows what kind of creatures are living in and on the grimy bowl. This thought only increases my consternation. I can literally feel the invasion of tiny monsters, swarming all over me, itching and tickling and biting.
“Hey! You almost done in there? We gotta be going, man! Hurry up now.” One of the cops’ voices cuts into my hallucinations, but does nothing to diminish the effects of the drugs. Close to panic, I’m sure the cops are going to notice all the bugs, how could they not? They must be visible on my face, it feels like there’re so many, even if I’m having trouble making them out. I can see what might be some teeny mite-type bugs under my fingernails, and can feel them in my boots as well. My hands fly around my body and face, trying to catch and kill the bugs, but they’re to small to see, much less catch. I think I feel them crunch like fleas between my nails a couple of times, but I’m really not sure, because when I move my fingernails apart, I still can’t see anything, no bug guts, nothing. This has very recently started happening every time I do a shot of coke. Maybe they normally live under my skin, feeding on my blood, then when I shoot up, the bugs try to escape from the coke, or it gets them high too, and they all run to the surface of my skin in their own cocaine-induced frenzy. Thinking what shooting coke does to me, it doesn’t seem that far-fetched. Cocaine directly into my veins hits me like a freight train, and I’m a thousand times larger than these bugs. Must be like an atomic blast to a creature this small.
I’m stuck in the toilet stall, thinking and feeling bugs. This is one of the reasons I hate using a public toilet. This always happens to me when I do. I get off, then wind up stuck in the stall, or locked in the whole bathroom if it’s a small restaurant. I’ll spend up to an hour in there, looking around on the floor to make sure I haven’t dropped anything, or looking for anything some other druggie might have stashed or dropped getting high like I’m doing. Or as has been happening more and more lately, I’m attacked by these coke bugs that ravish me, causing me to pick at my skin and fingers until they’re raw and bloody. Almost inevitably, someone will eventually come and begin banging on the door, yelling, “Come out of there you! We’re going to call the Police!”
There is a small voice of rationality somewhere in my mind, that I can hear trying to talk to me, telling me it’s the drugs, that I’m experiencing classic symptoms of cocaine psychosis, but all I can do is hear, and continue suffering out the trip. This time I’m running a bigger risk than usual, what with the cops themselves waiting for me right outside, so I struggle to get a grip. Somehow I manage to put everything away, and get my coat on. Skin going haywire underneath my coat, I pick up my bag and stumble outside. The cops are chatting up the young lady working the concession-stand around the corner from the toilets as they wait for me. I put my stuff into the van, and climb in.
“It’s about time.” The driver says, after the cops finish their conversation and get back in the van. Trying not to look him in the eye, I mumble, “Sorry,” as they begin to drive.
Sitting behind them, I’m trying to discretely pick at the few reachable bugs I can still feel crawling frantically around, while simultaneously rummaging aimlessly through my bag, not looking for anything in particular. It’s just another manifestation of the psychosis. Anytime one sees a street person sitting on the sidewalk somewhere digging maniacally through their belongings, rest assured that they are most probably tweaking. Tweaking is precisely what I’m doing now while voluntarily riding inside a police van. I begin to get paranoid, wondering what the police might be thinking. To anyone with the scantest experience with fucked-up people it should be blatantly obvious I’m completely off my face, and these two are cops with experience with fucked-up street people. They’ve gotta know I’m high. I lean forward, towards the cop riding shotgun, and begin babbling at him, trying to sooth his nerves.
“Do you like being a cop? Is this assignment something you chose, or was it given you as an order, to do this Outreach stuff?” I’m genuinely curious even if I am rambling. Rarely, if ever, have I an opportunity to talk to a cop as one human being to another. Usually any conversation with police is a question and answer session while I’m getting harassed or booked. I’m obviously wasted, having a lot of trouble coordinating my bag search and questioning, all the while trying to avoid eye contact. My pupils grow unbelievably huge when I’m on coke, and any cops worth their salt are going to be right on top of my condition.
Gradually the armies of coke mites recede, abandoning my skin, and I’m once again able to believe they were hallucinations and nothing more. Each time, just before booting, I tell myself there are no goddamned bugs, but once the coke hits me, I’m convinced they’re real, and nothing can convince me otherwise until the cocaine wears off once more.
Now the heroin begins to assert itself, bringing me rapidly down to a manageable level, but this has the alternate effect on my pupils, shrinking them to mere pin pricks, my eyes glazing over. With the light hazel color of my eyes, it’s immediately obvious I’m doped to the gills.
The two cops glance over at one another a number of times during the drive when I utter one especially off the wall comment or other. Rush hour, the drive takes a good while, which gives me time to come down quite a bit, so much so that by the time we reach the Project Renewal building, a former YMCA on Third Street, I’m close to nodding, a total porpoise head. The officers help me out of the van, lead me up the stairs and in through the front doors. Inside the building we approach a sign-in desk.
“This is the young man we called about,” the cop next to me says. “He’d like to enter the program here and go straight.” The cops step back, giving the guy behind the desk a clear view of me for the first time. He stands and walks around the desk, giving me a blatant once over.
Snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Jasen,

What you have described sounds like what happened to
my ex…It was frightening to see him shaving off his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…

Crystal methamphetamine: WORST DRUG EVER….

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet
Date: March 8, 2005 at 3:48:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

nope, never saw morphine but I love the song Sister Morphine, of course.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet

Yea great, now your gonna tell me you saw Morphine too. 2 string slide bass. I love Janes Addiction.     Randy

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT exorcism news scond edition
Date: March 8, 2005 at 10:42:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You wrote :
Hey Peeps,

I deleted that exorcist article by accident. can someone please forward
me the citation?
thanks,
K

### Hi !!
I put here some exerpts  of his previous book on the subject :
“PEOPLE OF THE LIE”
You will be surprised to know who are the real “people of the lie “. He give
in his book the esample of a nice couple, very respectable who gave to their
second child  for his birthday the gun that is own brother used few weeks
before to kill himself. This couple could not see what was wrong in the
picture.After all they where loving, caring parents…………..

<SNIP>” The central defect of ‘the evil’ is not the sin but the refusal to
acknowledge it. More often than not these people will be looked at as solid
citizens. How can that be? How can they be evil and not designated as
criminals? The key word is designated. They are criminals in that they
commit crimes against life and liveliness…their crimes are so subtle and
covert that they cannot clearly be designated as crimes. The theme of hiding
and covertness will occur again and again throughout the rest of this book.
It is the basis for the title People of the Lie.
Evil deeds do not make an evil person. Otherwise we would all be evil. If
evil people cannot be defined by the illegality of their deeds or the
magnitude of their sins, then how are we to define them? The answer is by
the consistency of their sins. While usually subtle, their destructiveness
is remarkably consistent. This is because those who have crossed over the
line are characterized by their absolute refusal to tolerate the sense of
their own sinfulness.

The poor in spirit do not commit evil. Evil is not committed by people who
feel uncertain about their righteousness, who question their own motives,
who worry about betraying themselves. The evil of this world is committed by
the spiritual fat cats, by the Pharisee’s of our own day, the self-righteous
who think they are without sin because they are unwilling to suffer the
discomfort of significant self-examination. It is out of their failure to
put themselves on trial that their evil arises. They are, in my experience
remarkably greedy people.

A predominant characteristic of the behavior that I call evil is
scapegoating. Because in their hearts they consider themselves above
reproach, they must lash out at anyone who does reproach them. They
sacrifice others to preserve their self-image of perfection.

Utterly dedicated to preserving their self-image of perfection, they are
unceasingly engaged in the effort to maintain the appearance of moral
purity. They are acutely sensitive to social norms and what others might
think of them. They seem to live lives that are above reproach. The words
image, appearance and outwardly are crucial to understanding the morality of
‘the evil’. While they lack any motivation to be good, they intensely desire
to appear good. Their goodness is all on a level of pretense. It is in
effect a lie. Actually the lie is designed not so much to deceive others as
to deceive themselves. We lie only when we are attempting to cover up
something we know to be illicit. At one and the same time ‘the evil’ are
aware of their evil and desperately trying to avoid the awareness. We become
evil by attempting to hide from ourselves. The wickedness of ‘the evil’ is
not committed directly, but indirectly as a part of this cover-up process.
Evil originates not in the absence of guilt but in the effort to escape it.

It often happens then that ‘the evil’ may be recognized by its very
disguise. Because they are such experts at disguise, it is seldom possible
to pinpoint the maliciousness of ‘the evil’. The disguise is usually
impenetrable.

They are not pain avoiders or lazy people in general. To the contrary, they
are likely to exert themselves more than most in their continuing effort to
obtain and maintain an image of respectability. They may willingly, even
eagerly, undergo great hardships in their search for status. It is only one
particular pain they cannot tolerate: the pain of their own conscience, the
pain of realization of their own sinfulness and imperfection.

They are men and women of obviously strong will, determined to have their
own way. There is a remarkable power in the manner in which they attempt to
control others.

Those who are evil are masters of disguise; they are not apt to wittingly
disclose their true colors – either to others or to themselves. It is not
without reason that the serpent is renowned for his subtlety. We therefore
cannot pass judgment on a person for a single act. Instead judgment must be
made on the basis of a whole pattern of acts as well as their manner and
style.

Think of the psychic energy required for the continued maintenance of the
pretense so characteristic of ‘the evil’! They perhaps direct at least as
much energy into their devious rationalizations and destructive
compensations as the healthies do into loving behavior. Why? What possesses
them, drives them? Basically, it is fear. They are terrified that the
pretense will break down and they will be exposed to the world and to
themselves.

Evil people would be distinguished by these traits: 1.) Consistent
destructive, scapegoating behavior, which may often be quite subtle. 2.)
Excessive, albeit usually covert, intolerance to criticism and other forms
of narcissistic injury. 3.) Pronounced concern with a public image and
self-image of respectability, contributing to a stability of lifestyle but
also to pretentiousness and denial of hateful feelings or vengeful motives.
4.) Intellectual deviousness, with an increased likelihood of a mild
schizophrenic-like disturbance of thinking at times of stress.<SNIP>

—————————————————————————-
———————————

GLIMPSE OF THE DEVIL

Psychiatrist’s Personal Accounts of Possession, Exorcism, and Redemption

by M. Scott Peck PHD

The legendary bestselling author and renowned psychiatrist M. Scott Peck,
whose books have sold over 14 million copies, reveals the amazing true story
of his work as an exorcist — kept secret for more than twenty-five years —
in two profoundly human stories of satanic possession.

In the tradition of his million-copy bestseller People of the Lie: The Hope
for Healing Human Evil, Scott Peck’s new book offers the first complete
account of exorcism and possession by a modern psychiatrist in this
extraordinary personal narrative of his efforts to heal patients suffering
from demonic and satanic possession.

For the first time, Dr. Peck discusses his experience in conducting
exorcisms, sharing the spellbinding details of his two major cases: one a
moving testament to his healing abilities, and the other a perilous and
ultimately unsuccessful struggle against darkness and evil.
Twenty-seven-year-old Jersey was of average intelligence; a caring and
devoted wife and mother to her husband and two young daughters, she had no
history of mental illness. Beccah, in her mid-forties and with a superior
intellect, had suffered from profound depression throughout her life,
choosing to remain in an abusive relationship with her husband, one
dominated by distrust and greed.

Until the day Dr. Peck first met the young woman called Jersey, he did not
believe in the devil. In fact, as a mature, highly experienced psychiatrist,
he expected that this case would resolve his ongoing effort to prove to
himself, as scientifically as possible, that there were absolutely no
grounds for such beliefs. Yet what he discovered could not be explained away
simply as madness or by any standard clinical diagnosis. Through a series of
unanticipated events, Dr. Peck found himself thrust into the role of
exorcist, and his desire to treat and help Jersey led him down a path of
blurred boundaries between science and religion. Once there, he came
face-to-face with deeply entrenched evil and ultimately witnessed the
overwhelming healing power of love.

In Glimpses of the Devil, Dr. Peck’s celebrated gift for integrating
psychiatry and religion is demonstrated yet again as he recounts his journey
from skepticism to eventual acknowledgment of the reality of an evil spirit,
even at the risk of being shunned by the medical establishment. In the
process, he also finds himself compelled to confront the larger paradox of
free will, of a commitment to goodness versus enslavement to the forms of
evil, and the monumental clash of forces that endangers both sanity and the
soul.

Glimpses of the Devil is unquestionably among Scott Peck’s most powerful,
scrupulously written, and important books in many years. At once deeply
sensitive and intensely chilling, it takes a clear-eyed look at one of the
most mysterious and misunderstood areas of human experience.

<SNIP>
Love and peace
Francis

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 10:34:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t you know it’s politically incorrect to differentiate between drugs?

Just kidding.

Dana/cnw

On Mar 8, 2005, at 9:55 AM, Ms Iboga wrote:

Hey shelley,

Are they still stealing farmer’s fertilizer/materials
down there?  I heard about it on the news awhile back.
A few dudes had gotten busted trying to lift some of
the materials they needed for their labs.

There have been cases of labs blowing up here too.
Usually the labs are located in trailers, so if you
can imagine a charge of dynamite exploding inside a
tin can, you probably have a pretty good idea of what
it would look like.

I repeat: Crystal Meth…WORST DRUG EVER…

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:55:08 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey shelley,

Are they still stealing farmer’s fertilizer/materials
down there?  I heard about it on the news awhile back.
A few dudes had gotten busted trying to lift some of
the materials they needed for their labs.

There have been cases of labs blowing up here too.
Usually the labs are located in trailers, so if you
can imagine a charge of dynamite exploding inside a
tin can, you probably have a pretty good idea of what
it would look like.

I repeat: Crystal Meth…WORST DRUG EVER…

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT exorcism news
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:50:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector,

That was fucking hilarious…thx, dude…

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:48:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey kids ,I live here in oklahoma, meth lab capital ,we call it ghetto cocaine , an ol pal of mine had a lab ,the phosphorous blew up in his face & he is covered with permanent white spots all over him from the burns, so many police hve been harmed by labs all over the place here, its the sudafed type of part of inhalers that is the part they use, think the phosphorous can even come form match heads , apparently not that difficult. I had that anhedonia back in my early cocaine recovery days in the 80’s ,but it passed in about 6 months, any long term stimulant abuse does that, sucks your brain chemistry dry ,but it does repair eventually.When I lived in hawaii they call ice batu & its a huge problem there too,violence abounds,enuf-love shell

Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
zoloft brain zaps suck egg.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 8, 2005 at 9:47:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen,

What you have described sounds like what happened to
my ex…It was frightening to see him shaving off his
eyebrows in order to get the ‘bugs out’…

Crystal methamphetamine: WORST DRUG EVER….

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet
Date: March 8, 2005 at 6:34:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yea great, now your gonna tell me you saw Morphine too. 2 string slide bass. I love Janes Addiction.     Randy

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT exorcism news
Date: March 7, 2005 at 11:11:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:
I wonder – was he able to get any pictures?

http://www.starterupsteve.com/swf/exorcist_bunnies.html

(Thanks to some of the people on this list :))

.:vector:.

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT exorcism news
Date: March 7, 2005 at 11:10:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Peeps,

I deleted that exorcist article by accident. can someone please forward me the citation?
thanks,
K

On Mar 7, 2005, at 8:01 PM, Eye of the Bhogi wrote:

I wonder – was he able to get any pictures?

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UTRAM BIBIS: AQUAM AN UNDAM?
which are you drinking: the water or the wave?

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT exorcism news
Date: March 7, 2005 at 11:01:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder – was he able to get any pictures?

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 10:59:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

zoloft brain zaps suck egg.

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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 9:54:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jasen and lovely ibogainers,

Thanks for the insights. They were very helpful! It makes me wonder, again, what it is that pushes us into these places , at once so pleasurable and so self-destructive. My ex-junkie ex-speedfreak recently ex-boyfriend talked constantly about a hole in his soul or in his heart that the junk or other substance, or a crush on some new girl was supposed to fill. He was really attracted to my bright light, but then refused to love me and let me love him fully–as if he either couldn’t or was too afraid to let himself. He talked about how love is all just pain and disappointment, a trick, a trap. Now he is trying to get off Zoloft and is drinking 3 bottles of red wine a day just to keep himself jolly and hold the brainzaps at bay. He is so spiritually gifted, but I feel that he hasn’t yet decided to choose the light, and that his substance abuse is as much about numbing pain as it is a seductive dance with the devil.  Perhaps literally.

I have another friend, a very sensitive soul, who started on a speed binge at age 18 and has just (sort of) ended now that he is 28. He has been homeless, and often pants-less and is now toothless, but he still maintains his love of the drug.  He talked of the mystical insights that one can have when one has built up enough tolerance to be able to take large amounts at a time. But he has utterly destroyed his body–and his ability to be on this planet comfortably. His journey seems more about loss than about love.

Perhaps it the job of  Ibogaine to tell the body the truth of spirit? That this body and this planet are not profane, are not keeping us from the spiritual insights and release from pain that we crave, but instead are vehicles for developing stronger spirits that enable us to go farther once we leave this body and this planet behind? Can Ibogaine gives us the strength to mend broken hearts, broken not by drugs, but simply by life (sexual abuse, neglect, etc), do you think?

love,
K

On Mar 7, 2005, at 6:08 PM, Jasen Chamoun wrote:

Hey K,

The long term use of any type of speed I have observed (brother) is paranoia,
seeing things that other people cannot see. My brother thought that people were
trying to kill him,..including seeing police cars and fire engines trying to run him
of the road in broad daylight(wasn’t happening).

My brother is normally a very sain man, a realist you could say. He would drive
past my place and call me,..he would say, “look in the tree outside your window
there is a cable car in the tree with Mormans in it, they are watching you”.He thought
the mormans also were trying to kill him.

He started carrying mirrors with him as he thought that people where beaming him
with lasers and hurting his heart,..he would sit there with the mirrors looking behind him
all the time, trying to deflect the “electric beams”.

He would ring me in the middle of the night absolutley terrified saying,”there is about
fifty ninja’s on my roof, they want to kill me,I would go there and of course there was not
ever anything there, he could not be told, he truly believed it.

This was after about 2 years of speed /ice use, the last year he used heavely and this is
when the hallucinations got really bad.

He has not used speed for almost a year now and is almost back to normal. His thyroid
gland is still not quite right as are a few other things, he is healing though, getting better.
He still thinks that people like the mormans want to kill him, he just does not see them
as much now.

I believe Ibogaine can help as it seems to deal with some of the underlying issues of why
the drug use is necessary. Eg; My oldest brother started using speed heavily after my other
brother was murdered whilst working,..my older brother did not want to be here any more
neither did I, we found it hard to handle. When I took Iboga I saw my brother, the one that
was killed and he was fine,…more than fine,…he spoke to me with his eyes and liqued light
it was beautiful, my heart was refilled with the love that I lost when I lost him. In this way
at least,..I think Iboga’ can help. It will heal most of the hurt,..give you understanding, it
made life lighter for me.

I hope this helps.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: “kiersten johnson” <kiers10@mac.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Hi folks,

New to the list. I’m wondering if you have noticed certain subtle but long-term effects of meth use: most particularly  the lack of empathy, and the inability to sort of “get with” one’s own emotions as well. If you have witnessed this in yourself or others, is it possible to get these abilities back? Will Ibogain help with that?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot-music-nin-chicago-may06
Date: March 7, 2005 at 9:44:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

anyone on the list going? im there.
sold out now tho
sooo….
your SOL unless you wanna scalp a ticket for 100+

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet
Date: March 7, 2005 at 9:36:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

almost as good as a Jesus Lizard show, but not as good as a Butthole Surfers or Jane’s Addiction show (see:

OOPS

;-))

I meant to write, see:

http://www.drugwar.com/pshroomshows.shtm

A Simple Experiment Goes Well
Butthole Surfers are a better Shroom Band than Jane’s Addiction

By Preston Peet (Originally published in the New York Waste, Nov. 2001)

I was reading Melbomene Whitehead’s Subderma column in the October issue of the New York Waste one lazy Thursday afternoon, enthralled with her vivid account of patriotic bra shopping, when I came to her declaration of the unsuitability of wearing a certain bra to the upcoming Butthole Surfers’ concert.

I immediately threw down the Waste as I leapt to my feet.

“V,” I exclaimed, “Butthole Surfers are playing next week, and I’m going to get tickets right now.”
And I did.

Upon waking the next morning, what should I find on my computer keyboard but a confirmation note saying that 2 Jane’s Addiction tickets were in the process of heading our way.

Jane’s Addiction tickets? What?

Sure enough, seems that while at work V heard about a Jane’s Addiction show at Madison Square Garden the very next Monday, October 15th, just a weekend away, and managed to hook us tickets.
Holy shit, two of my all time favorite bands, (among an uncountable multitude really), and they were playing the same week, and we were going to see them both.

In the interests of science, I decided to undertake a seriously controlled experiment, to see which band was a better show to see on shrooms.

snip-

Quite a bit more at the above url, along with a number of imbedded hyperlinks. It’s an older article now, but the research for said article is still remembered fondly by the author.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Preston Peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet

Ahh, the good Reverend. I saw him play along with the Dwarves when I lived in Amsterdam. I was asked to go to the show by a girl in this little goth bar where I used to go and drink hot chocolate and shoot dope (on-topic tie-in) in the bathroom of during breaks from busking in the wind and snow outside. She said, “wanna go to a show with me?” and I said, “maybe, when it is, and who is it?” and she said, “the Dwarves and Reverend Horton Heat, and it starts in ten minutes over at the Melkweg,” and I said, “what in the heck are we waiting for?”
What an awesome show that was. Almost, and I say that with fondness, almost as good as a Jesus Lizard show, but not as good as a Butthole Surfers or Jane’s Addiction show (see:

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet

Rach, it’s a song by the Reverend Horton Heet. It was way cool, kinda like Chris Issac on a whole lot of acid. The video for wiggle stick had people in what looked like a southern church dancing around with snakes and shit. I loved it, but I aint rite. Tell Jeff that he’s the man. I bet going back to work helps him.              Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 9:08:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey K,

The long term use of any type of speed I have observed (brother) is paranoia,
seeing things that other people cannot see. My brother thought that people were
trying to kill him,..including seeing police cars and fire engines trying to run him
of the road in broad daylight(wasn’t happening).

My brother is normally a very sain man, a realist you could say. He would drive
past my place and call me,..he would say, “look in the tree outside your window
there is a cable car in the tree with Mormans in it, they are watching you”.He thought
the mormans also were trying to kill him.

He started carrying mirrors with him as he thought that people where beaming him
with lasers and hurting his heart,..he would sit there with the mirrors looking behind him
all the time, trying to deflect the “electric beams”.

He would ring me in the middle of the night absolutley terrified saying,”there is about
fifty ninja’s on my roof, they want to kill me,I would go there and of course there was not
ever anything there, he could not be told, he truly believed it.

This was after about 2 years of speed /ice use, the last year he used heavely and this is
when the hallucinations got really bad.

He has not used speed for almost a year now and is almost back to normal. His thyroid
gland is still not quite right as are a few other things, he is healing though, getting better.
He still thinks that people like the mormans want to kill him, he just does not see them
as much now.

I believe Ibogaine can help as it seems to deal with some of the underlying issues of why
the drug use is necessary. Eg; My oldest brother started using speed heavily after my other
brother was murdered whilst working,..my older brother did not want to be here any more
neither did I, we found it hard to handle. When I took Iboga I saw my brother, the one that
was killed and he was fine,…more than fine,…he spoke to me with his eyes and liqued light
it was beautiful, my heart was refilled with the love that I lost when I lost him. In this way
at least,..I think Iboga’ can help. It will heal most of the hurt,..give you understanding, it
made life lighter for me.

I hope this helps.

love,
Jasen.

—– Original Message —– From: “kiersten johnson” <kiers10@mac.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:41 AM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Hi folks,

New to the list. I’m wondering if you have noticed certain subtle but long-term effects of meth use: most particularly  the lack of empathy, and the inability to sort of “get with” one’s own emotions as well. If you have witnessed this in yourself or others, is it possible to get these abilities back? Will Ibogain help with that?

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 8:33:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Angel,

Crystal meth here in Australia is also known as “ice”, it can be smoked, snorted or injected. If injected for to long it can “fry the brain”(apparently).

To me crystal meth is just high qaulity speed. It looks like rock salt. It is fantastic for sex,as is normal speed. Most people I have known enjoy meth
or speed mainly for the hightened sexual pleasure. It takes about 2 to 3 days of to get the ahrrrrg feeling out of your system, to me the come down is not
worth the high.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

HI

This is probably a really dumb question what is meth crystal?? I thought I had heard of every drug shit I thought I had tried them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 7, 2005 at 8:08:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Angel,

I am right there when you are talking to me,..a part of my spirit. I am pretty well, just a little confused as to where to go from here.
I am thinking of moving,.I used to live by myself, my sister and her husband have moved in for a while,..until I can find them an
appropriate place(Chinese metaphysics) Feng Shui.

I don’t have a girlfriend,..sniff sniff,..   :), I used to about 3 years ago and it was very tough, should be easier now I am not on methadone.
I have a few good friends that are girls,..and some friends that are girls on the list,..ay girl friend.

How are you doing Donna?How is your son?

I enjoy getting emails off you, we should talk more. You do know that you can talk about absolutely anything with me ay Angel.

Talk soon matey,
love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 8:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN

Hi Jasen

Always talking to you how are you??? are you moving, or thinking of it???  Hows your  girlfriend???
Love Donna

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet
Date: March 7, 2005 at 6:46:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahh, the good Reverend. I saw him play along with the Dwarves when I lived in Amsterdam. I was asked to go to the show by a girl in this little goth bar where I used to go and drink hot chocolate and shoot dope (on-topic tie-in) in the bathroom of during breaks from busking in the wind and snow outside. She said, “wanna go to a show with me?” and I said, “maybe, when it is, and who is it?” and she said, “the Dwarves and Reverend Horton Heat, and it starts in ten minutes over at the Melkweg,” and I said, “what in the heck are we waiting for?”
What an awesome show that was. Almost, and I say that with fondness, almost as good as a Jesus Lizard show, but not as good as a Butthole Surfers or Jane’s Addiction show (see:

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet

Rach, it’s a song by the Reverend Horton Heet. It was way cool, kinda like Chris Issac on a whole lot of acid. The video for wiggle stick had people in what looked like a southern church dancing around with snakes and shit. I loved it, but I aint rite. Tell Jeff that he’s the man. I bet going back to work helps him.              Randy

From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 4:53:26 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

One good reason not to follow other people’s recipes:

<…>
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: drugwar@mindvox.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Preston, I know what your talking about. They used to make crank with Vick’s inhalers somehow. It took some sulfuric acid too, but sulfuric isn’t that hard to get if you call it battery acid. I don’t know the whole process, but I remember people making it that way. You still needed ephedrine too.             Randy
<…>

I’ve got this Boxcar of bananas I’ve been trying
to offload since the sixties… any takers?

L


Zero Surprises: No virus found in this outgoing message // lcm
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 – Release Date: 3/4/2005

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From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 4:48:34 PM EST
To: “DrugWar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Advertisement:
The Free Mexican Air Force Is Hiring Now.
See attached mp3 (self-ripped and virus scanned)
~~~~

—– Original Message —–
From: Preston Peet
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Your “friend” could be next.<

She was a friend without quotations Leigh, but it’s been a long time since I
last saw her, over 13 years now, so you could be right, I just don’t know.
She had some awesome tattoo work and a love of shooting speed- she’d been a
junkie apparently in New Orleans for a while before moving to Atlanta and
picking up that nifty yet skeevy create-yer-own-speed habit. I hope she got
her head together instead though Leigh. I tend to be more of the attitude
that yeah, some drugs are gross and the users thereof are not fun to hang
out with all that often, but that’s their business and I won’t look down on
them- I’ll simply avoid them to the best of my ability, like I do with many
(very very very many) people who drink alcohol. To me, that can be one of
the ugliest “hey that person is really royally fucked up” states I know of.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

~~~

Alcohol is on my shitlist too… for a lot of reasons.

I’ve always divided psychotropic substances into two basic categories:

I define the categories as:
Substances that free the mind
…and ones that control it.

One arbiter I use is whether the substance affects all users the same way.
True psychedelics (real L shrooms peyote…) surely don’t, and weed doesn’t either.

Compare that to Heroin, Speed, and Alcohol’s effect on people.
(in a “normal” population… no hyperactives, or epileptics et al)

You might want to note that Marinol *does* affect everyone in a similar way, so
I suspect the effects of chemical and prescription compounds that don’t include
ALL of the active constituents (and not just the psychoactive ones, either) of the
original source is partially to blame.

Standardized drug, Standardized “Head Space”.

But like I said, Wyamine is nasty shit…  it’s right in there with glue sniffing.

But “nasty” is a “selling point” for middleclass punks that can afford the rehab and
have never excelled at anything besides impressing people with their ability to
self-destruct and act out.

It’s not an anti-social issue… although crank will *not* make you the “life of the party” in
the long run, and it’s not about “…some drugs are gross and the users thereof are not
fun to hang out…”, as a bad thing…

That is what it is ALL ABOUT, that is the intended outcome… “culturally”.

That’s the basic bullshit attitude: I’m bad… I’m badder than you…  I’m so bad
you shouldn’t hang out with me unless you want to be bad too… and if the other
person ignores it and hangs out anyway…

…the “addict” thinks it’s love. But it isn’t. And then back to step one… I’m bad…

Not hip culture… death culture… Middle class death culture.

The whole “hard drug scene” is a like that… no matter the drug.

It bores me, the people are shallow and callow.

Friend is ALWAYS in “quotes”.

I guess for some people “early check-out” and being bad is a simple way to get
love and attention… But it ain’t love, and you don’t get the attention because
when you are dead you’ll never know if anyone cared at all.

It might work for some folks, but I already have too many dead “friends” thanks.

Leigh

http://www.geocities.com/leighcmeyers
http://www.furl.net/members/leigh_m/rss.xml

Zero Surprises: No virus found in this outgoing message // lcm
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 – Release Date: 3/4/2005

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] OT Reverend Horton Heet
Date: March 7, 2005 at 4:40:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rach, it’s a song by the Reverend Horton Heet. It was way cool, kinda like Chris Issac on a whole lot of acid. The video for wiggle stick had people in what looked like a southern church dancing around with snakes and shit. I loved it, but I aint rite. Tell Jeff that he’s the man. I bet going back to work helps him.              Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 3:44:19 PM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I know what your talking about. They used to make crank with Vick’s inhalers somehow. It took some sulfuric acid too, but sulfuric isn’t that hard to get if you call it battery acid. I don’t know the whole process, but I remember people making it that way. You still needed ephedrine too.             Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 3:28:49 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Your “friend” could be next.<

She was a friend without quotations Leigh, but it’s been a long time since I last saw her, over 13 years now, so you could be right, I just don’t know. She had some awesome tattoo work and a love of shooting speed- she’d been a junkie apparently in New Orleans for a while before moving to Atlanta and picking up that nifty yet skeevy create-yer-own-speed habit. I hope she got her head together instead though Leigh. I tend to be more of the attitude that yeah, some drugs are gross and the users thereof are not fun to hang out with all that often, but that’s their business and I won’t look down on them- I’ll simply avoid them to the best of my ability, like I do with many (very very very many) people who drink alcohol. To me, that can be one of the ugliest “hey that person is really royally fucked up” states I know of.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Wyeth Labs…Wyamine…. inhalers… By script only nowdays.

Crackem open… cookem up.

Right in there with glue sniffing and paint huffing.

I knew people that liked that sorta shit… they’re all dead now.

Your “friend” could be next.

But they probably don’t care much for life anyway.

—– Original Message —– From: Preston Peet
To: drugwar@mindvox.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Hi all,
I’m cross posting this because I have a question that someone on either
list might be able to answer.

Michelle P wrote on the ibogaine list >It’s risky to make–the chemicals are
volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly
with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.<

Are there more than one way to make crystal meth? Because I have heard this
before, and yet…
I remember when living in Atlanta, when first scoring a heroin
connection (see: http://www.drugwar.com/pcalmstorm.shtm for more on my
Atlanta scoring and a pretty drawing too, my first heroin scored and used in
the US actually) that the roommate of the girl who was getting us our dope
was cooking up methamphetamines in the bathroom sink, using some kind of
cold inhaler, the name of which I can never remember- something like
benedryl but that is not the actual name, just something similar to that, I
think.
But the point I’m trying to make is that it didn’t sound complicated nor
“volitile” in any way other than when the roommate would miss her shots and
fuck up her hands trying to shoot that nasty stuff into the tinniest veins
she had apparently. But no “volitile” chemicals were being mixed, though I
do not know the exact method she was using to extract the speed from the OTC
medication.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Michelle Palmer” <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
To: “Ajtcservice@aol.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice,
usually
snorted, an upper like cocaine.

This is correct, but there is more to meth. It is often found in rural
areas, due to it’s home-brewed nature. It’s risky to make–the chemicals
are volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite
thoroughly with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.

It can also be an absolute bitch to get off of, judging from the people I
have watched come off it. It can be done, it’s just hard because the
individuals sense of reality gets a little psychotic.

peace,
Michelle

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 3:21:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 07.03.2005 um 21:04 schrieb Preston Peet:

The meth/amph is almost an epidemic among gay man in the west.<

V says it’s a huge problem amongst gay men here in NYC too, as does Dana.

in berlin, too.

i saw peoples lifes destroyed by it and one guy literally dropped dead after doing a big line.
personally i have some good memories, though, like 3 days non-stop sex. hey, it works for heteros, too!
that was 6-7 years ago. AND i will never do it again.

btw i think its very pure, especially compared to “normal” speed which is usually diluted since people like to do big lines. i can only speak for the german scene.

peace & love
ekki

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 3:04:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The meth/amph is almost an epidemic among gay man in the west.<

V says it’s a huge problem amongst gay men here in NYC too, as does Dana.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “boaz” <wachtel@shani.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I have a friend who was a meth/amph ivdu and was treated by me with
Ibogaine. Even though he was in denial that it did any good for him the
results speak for themselves – he was able to graduate from medical school
(after one year break in the middle when he started to inject in SF)and to
receive his MD and quit his heavy use.
The meth/amph is almost an epidemic among gay man in the west. It is now
common in rural areas in the US. It is a hard addiction to get rid off and I
recommend more then one treatment. During our treatments of people who were
using the upper family (coke, crack etc) it was noticed that they recovered
quicker then people who were addicted to the downers family, had less nausea
and where less likely to give Ibogaine credit for their recovery. These are
just observations from a few treatments and it is not a scientific study.
I would ask the guy on the meth to be screened thoroughly, especially the
hart, because uppers fuck up the heart.

Good luck

Boaz wachtel

He is now an HIV activist and

—–Original Message—–
From: Michelle Palmer [mailto:mpalmer7@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:58 PM
To: Ajtcservice@aol.com
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice,
usually
snorted, an upper like cocaine.

This is correct, but there is more to meth. It is often found in rural
areas, due to it’s home-brewed nature. It’s risky to make–the chemicals are
volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly
with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.

It can also be an absolute bitch to get off of, judging from the people I
have watched come off it. It can be done, it’s just hard because the
individuals sense of reality gets a little psychotic.

peace,
Michelle

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From: kiersten johnson <kiers10@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 2:41:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi folks,

New to the list. I’m wondering if you have noticed certain subtle but long-term effects of meth use: most particularly  the lack of empathy, and the inability to sort of “get with” one’s own emotions as well. If you have witnessed this in yourself or others, is it possible to get these abilities back? Will Ibogain help with that?

cheers,

K
On Mar 7, 2005, at 11:31 AM, Eye of the Bhogi wrote:

imnsho, speed kills.  it fucks up the babies of pregnant women, and
fries peeps brains, and messes you up but good.  but bad.  scary bad.
in minneapolis a few years back or five or six, some idiot blew up
everybody’s studio spaces above Lake and Lyndale with his damn
bathtub.  kids get burned and poiosoned all the time too.  Its not
good.  Its not glamorizable.  feeling like i got a wiggle stick today.
randy, wtf does that mean you crazy man?  love from fresh meadows,
rachy

ps jeff hauled his detoxed rehabilitated body outta bed **early** this
morning and returned to work, four months after his last swig at the
clinic.  i’m really proud of him.

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If you are squeamish: don’t prod the beach rubble.

–Sappho

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 7, 2005 at 2:35:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Clean-shmean.  Recovery sucks.  love from Pomonok, rachel

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 2:31:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

imnsho, speed kills.  it fucks up the babies of pregnant women, and
fries peeps brains, and messes you up but good.  but bad.  scary bad.
in minneapolis a few years back or five or six, some idiot blew up
everybody’s studio spaces above Lake and Lyndale with his damn
bathtub.  kids get burned and poiosoned all the time too.  Its not
good.  Its not glamorizable.  feeling like i got a wiggle stick today.
randy, wtf does that mean you crazy man?  love from fresh meadows,
rachy

ps jeff hauled his detoxed rehabilitated body outta bed **early** this
morning and returned to work, four months after his last swig at the
clinic.  i’m really proud of him.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 7, 2005 at 2:29:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

About keeping clean……

Now on the subject of keeping clean : I have a friend of mine who
use to smashed himself with pure Vodka the cheapest one , then he quit
drinking hard liquor and NOW  drink ONLY  beer, a LOT of beer. . Sometimes,
he will ask a good friend to prepare for him a Gin Fizz with a lot of lemon
juice for the Vitamin C ( his friend use to work in an  health store in
Zimbabwe.)

You know what, I think actualy that this guy is a genious. He found a way
to fight back his addiction. I heard that he is in the process of publishing
a book :  How to fight the booze and avoid relapse, one day at the time. His
principle is that you relapse only if you quit. Make sens, non ?/!

Recently he asked me a pertinent question: “if I go to the crapper, shoot
junk with a spike and smoke some  shit or trash myself and then get wasted .
if I am not drinking any alcohol AT ALL  who can said I am not clean .  ?/

-Not me , for sure. Put back the gun : the roach are gone and you just shoot
yourself in the foot . I told him

Peace and love
Francis

— On Thu 03/03, Steven Anker < stevenanker@hotmail.com > wrote:
From: Steven Anker [mailto: stevenanker@hotmail.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:56:07 -0800
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN

<br>><br>>
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean/KeepingClean.html<br>><br>> Steven!
You’ve woken up again!  Duz this mean it will soon contain  <br>> EVEN MORE
timeless wisdom and Inspirational ThotZ?<br>><br>> Just checking.<br>><br>>
Patrick<br><br>Not from me, but there has to be someone out there who has
learned a  <br>thing or two and would like to share. The idea was that it
keeps  <br>getting improved, unlike the big book which kind of sits like a
sacred  <br>text. Here’s one: If pulled over by cops and asked “whatcha
eating?”  <br>Answer: “Some cake my saintly mother baked.”<br><br>Is there
anyone out there who feels like making a little “So, you want  <br>to take
ibo” bit that you could put on your site? I’ll write a blurb if  <br>you get
your knees dirty Patrick.<br><br>Randy, glad it’s helped a bit. You might
want to check SMART recovery  <br>on-line www.smartrecovery.org/ it might
give you a few helpful ideas,  <br>there may even be a meeting close by.
It’s great that you are doing  <br>work to keep the dark master at bay.
Patrick once wrote that the basis  <br>of AA is very old: loss of ego and
service to others and that is good.  <br>You are doing your part!
Congrats.<br><br>Matt, check out both the keeping clean and the smart stuff.
Eat right,  <br>excercise, avoid triggers, find some activities other than
smack – sex  <br>is a good one (alone or with others) – and you should be
fine. The more  <br>proactive you are about it, the better. Remember that
cravings are like  <br>waves, they come, they go. If you feel it coming on,
do something to  <br>keep busy until it goes away. Going by the coping part
of town for old  <br>memories is a bad activity though.<br><br>Hannah, you
are in my thoughts and whatever vauge and confused version  <br>of prayer I
do. I really hope you come through this.<br><br>Ekki, my mom is German and
“Ekki” was a nickname for me. Congrats on 12  <br>weeks, don’t get lazy.
It’s so easy to think “Well just one taste won’t  <br>hurt anyone. I’m doing
so well… just one go for old times sake…”  <br>For me at least, that one
taste never stayed at one.<br><br>Francis, something to think about
addiction. As a species we are  <br>hard-wired for it. We are all hard-wired
to be addicted to sex, food,  <br>and companionship. That helps humans
spread like rats and weeds. It’s  <br>just that some of us are addicted to
some other things and have trouble  <br>stopping. It’s not
‘bad.'<br><br>Steve.<br><br><br><br><br>

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: “Leigh Meyers” <leighcmeyers@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 1:33:56 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Wyeth Labs…Wyamine…. inhalers… By script only nowdays.

Crackem open… cookem up.

Right in there with glue sniffing and paint huffing.

I knew people that liked that sorta shit… they’re all dead now.

Your “friend” could be next.

But they probably don’t care much for life anyway.

—– Original Message —–
From: Preston Peet
To: drugwar@mindvox.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 10:21 AM
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

Hi all,
I’m cross posting this because I have a question that someone on either
list might be able to answer.

Michelle P wrote on the ibogaine list >It’s risky to make–the chemicals are
volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly
with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.<

Are there more than one way to make crystal meth? Because I have heard this
before, and yet…
I remember when living in Atlanta, when first scoring a heroin
connection (see: http://www.drugwar.com/pcalmstorm.shtm for more on my
Atlanta scoring and a pretty drawing too, my first heroin scored and used in
the US actually) that the roommate of the girl who was getting us our dope
was cooking up methamphetamines in the bathroom sink, using some kind of
cold inhaler, the name of which I can never remember- something like
benedryl but that is not the actual name, just something similar to that, I
think.
But the point I’m trying to make is that it didn’t sound complicated nor
“volitile” in any way other than when the roommate would miss her shots and
fuck up her hands trying to shoot that nasty stuff into the tinniest veins
she had apparently. But no “volitile” chemicals were being mixed, though I
do not know the exact method she was using to extract the speed from the OTC
medication.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Michelle Palmer” <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
To: “Ajtcservice@aol.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice,
usually
snorted, an upper like cocaine.

This is correct, but there is more to meth. It is often found in rural
areas, due to it’s home-brewed nature. It’s risky to make–the chemicals
are volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite
thoroughly with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.

It can also be an absolute bitch to get off of, judging from the people I
have watched come off it. It can be done, it’s just hard because the
individuals sense of reality gets a little psychotic.

peace,
Michelle

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Zero Surprises: No virus found in this outgoing message // lcm
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 – Release Date: 3/4/2005

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 1:21:11 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’m cross posting this because I have a question that someone on either list might be able to answer.

Michelle P wrote on the ibogaine list >It’s risky to make–the chemicals are volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.<

Are there more than one way to make crystal meth? Because I have heard this before, and yet…
I remember when living in Atlanta, when first scoring a heroin connection (see: http://www.drugwar.com/pcalmstorm.shtm for more on my Atlanta scoring and a pretty drawing too, my first heroin scored and used in the US actually) that the roommate of the girl who was getting us our dope was cooking up methamphetamines in the bathroom sink, using some kind of cold inhaler, the name of which I can never remember- something like benedryl but that is not the actual name, just something similar to that, I think.
But the point I’m trying to make is that it didn’t sound complicated nor “volitile” in any way other than when the roommate would miss her shots and fuck up her hands trying to shoot that nasty stuff into the tinniest veins she had apparently. But no “volitile” chemicals were being mixed, though I do not know the exact method she was using to extract the speed from the OTC medication.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Michelle Palmer” <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
To: “Ajtcservice@aol.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice, usually
snorted, an upper like cocaine.

This is correct, but there is more to meth. It is often found in rural areas, due to it’s home-brewed nature. It’s risky to make–the chemicals are volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.

It can also be an absolute bitch to get off of, judging from the people I have watched come off it. It can be done, it’s just hard because the individuals sense of reality gets a little psychotic.

peace,
Michelle

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Bush gets it right? Say goodbye to DARE and anti-drug programs.
Date: March 7, 2005 at 1:04:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is a little like Matt Drudge, mr. ultra conservative Republican
putting the Deborah and Patrick ibogaine show on the front page of his
site last year 🙂

This is from DEA Watch (a pro-DEA organization run by former DEA
agents), their reply to the longer snippet I’m posting after it.

http://members.aol.com/deawatch/daily.htm

“I, for one, am glad that the truth is finally out. Now perhaps some of
the Bushies in this office will come to their senses and realize that
DEA’s decline since Bush came to office was by the design and intent of
a habitual drug user lashing back.”

We can hope 🙂

.:vector:.

This is from a Drug Policy Alliance press release

http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/021705budget.cfm

Money Talks: A New Direction in the War on Drugs?

President Bush’s proposed 2006 federal budget is out and it has some
interesting implications for the drug war. For starters, Bush wants to
eliminate more than a billon dollars in federal law-enforcement grants
to the states, including the problematic Byrne grant program. These
grants subsidized the largest prison expansion in American history.
Without them, it’s doubtful that states could afford to continue to
pursue draconian “lock ‘em up” approaches to drugs.

Bush also wants to completely eliminate the federal Safe and Drug Free
Schools Program, which among other things helps states fund DARE and
other over-the-top anti-drug programs. He is also recommending level
funding for the government’s anti-drug media campaign, which adjusted
for inflation would mean essentially a slight cut to the program. At
the same time Bush is cutting these programs, he is trying to double –
and in some cases triple – the amount of money going to drug treatment
programs, most notably his novel Access to Recovery program which gives
vouchers to people needing access to drug treatment.

–snip

__________________________________________________
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From: “boaz” <wachtel@shani.net>
Subject: RE: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 10:43:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a friend who was a meth/amph ivdu and was treated by me with
Ibogaine. Even though he was in denial that it did any good for him the
results speak for themselves – he was able to graduate from medical school
(after one year break in the middle when he started to inject in SF)and to
receive his MD and quit his heavy use.
The meth/amph is almost an epidemic among gay man in the west. It is now
common in rural areas in the US. It is a hard addiction to get rid off and I
recommend more then one treatment. During our treatments of people who were
using the upper family (coke, crack etc) it was noticed that they recovered
quicker then people who were addicted to the downers family, had less nausea
and where less likely to give Ibogaine credit for their recovery. These are
just observations from a few treatments and it is not a scientific study.
I would ask the guy on the meth to be screened thoroughly, especially the
hart, because uppers fuck up the heart.

Good luck

Boaz wachtel

He is now an HIV activist and

—–Original Message—–
From: Michelle Palmer [mailto:mpalmer7@austin.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:58 PM
To: Ajtcservice@aol.com
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice,
usually
snorted, an upper like cocaine.

This is correct, but there is more to meth. It is often found in rural
areas, due to it’s home-brewed nature. It’s risky to make–the chemicals are
volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly
with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.

It can also be an absolute bitch to get off of, judging from the people I
have watched come off it. It can be done, it’s just hard because the
individuals sense of reality gets a little psychotic.

peace,
Michelle

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From: “Fakeplacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Julie / Ayahuascha / Sleep…
Date: March 7, 2005 at 9:52:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julie
I have very good friend (also he helped my Iboga administration) He prepared my Ayahuascha mix; so I have no idea; horw to prepare or wich one is better. But I can give you his mail address and I’m sure he can help you. Also he can ensure you right mixed Ayahuascha. You can trust to him.
You better use ayahuascha beacuse; It’s very wild and different thing. You have to test it. My friend Daniel spent two years in Brazil Rain Forest with Ayahuascha.
I told you before would you tell me that can I send you mails off the list. I want to do this.
I always smoke pot (every day) but it doesn’t helped me.
I have very very lovely girlfriend (I suppose I’ll mary with her) As I said you before; after Iboga my life has changed to the very happy way. Everyday I wake up happy; and sleeping issue is not a big deal for me now.

Daniels e-mail: waterman.design@wxs.nl

He is also friend of Sara from Holland

Best Regards

M

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Julie / There?

Hey there,

So glad to hear you’re still around.  I sent you an
email a while back, and never heard anything.

My sleeping patterns are still a bit screwed up, and
it’s almost 5 months.  I wake up a few times per
night, regardless of my diet, exercise levels,
etc…etc…etc…  My doc says it takes AT LEAST 5-6
months to recover from methadone, but you were on the
(H)orse, weren’t you?

Maybe 5-6 hours is all you need, but you said you feel
tired, right?  Have you tried melatonin, or smoking
pot?  Pot helps a bit, but I’m wondering if (in the
long run) it’s screwing up the sleeping patterns
more…?

I wanted to ask you about your ayahuasca experience
too..  I want to try it when the weather gets better,
but there are so many different recipes, I’m not sure
which one to choose.  Did you use Syrian Rue, or not?

BTW, M., you sound amazing!!  I’m so happy for you..

love Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 8:05:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh thanks, I have never heard of it before.

From: Michelle Palmer <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 7:57:58 AM EST
To: “Ajtcservice@aol.com” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice, usually
snorted, an upper like cocaine.

This is correct, but there is more to meth. It is often found in rural areas, due to it’s home-brewed nature. It’s risky to make–the chemicals are volatile–and it screws with the users sense of reality quite thoroughly with prolonged use. Fairly certain it’s injectable.

It can also be an absolute bitch to get off of, judging from the people I have watched come off it. It can be done, it’s just hard because the individuals sense of reality gets a little psychotic.

peace,
Michelle

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From: Ajtcservice@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 7:27:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe it is a form of meth-amphetamine.  It is man-made like Ice, usually snorted, an upper like cocaine.

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 7, 2005 at 5:44:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI

This is probably a really dumb question what is meth crystal?? I thought I had heard of every drug shit I thought I had tried them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 7, 2005 at 5:43:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen

Always talking to you how are you??? are you moving, or thinking of it???  Hows your  girlfriend???
Love Donna

From: Ajtcservice@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Response
Date: March 7, 2005 at 2:14:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cathy,

My story is very similar to yours and I live in Atlanta, GA.  Have you received any encouraging information?  Best Wishes and I too will pass any useful information on to you.

Annie

From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new Erowid Ibo experience
Date: March 7, 2005 at 12:44:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp_submit.cgi

Submit an Experience Report

We are looking for well written reports that could
help others who find themselves in similar situations.
In addition to trip reports, we’re looking for
experiences with other forms of mind-altering
activities such as yoga, meditation, and substance
preparations.

We are specifically looking for reports that describe
more than just a list of activities that you engaged
in…we are looking for descriptions of mindset,
physicial and mental effects of a substance,
intentions, insights, problems, etc. If this is a
description of an experience with a psychoactive plant
or chemical, we are more likely to use it if it
includes the following type of information:

* Description of Mindset & Setting
* Details of any preparations made for the
experience
* Dosage & Timing Information
* Notes on prescription or over-the-counter
medications, herbs or supplements you were taking at
the time of the experience.
* Something more than a description of how fucked
up you were or what cool patterns you saw.

Not all reports are approved and displayed. Each
report eventually goes through a review process to
select for readability and usefulness. We receive more
than two dozen submissions a day and the average
report takes more than six months to be reviewed. Some
reports are read more quickly, and some reports even
older than that are still awaiting review. Please be
patient. We are beta-testing a new system to improve
the speed of review (Dec 2004).

Suggested Title :
*
If you are a
registered author,
click here
Name / Pseudonym :
*
Substance(s) :
*
Dose :

Body Weight :

Gender :

Year of Experience :

Report :

Email :

* Required Fields

Copyrights: By submitting this experience report to
Erowid you are granting permission for the report to
be used on Erowid.org, in promotional literature, and
in both electronic & print publications of Erowid’s
choosing. Changes may be made to clarify the text,
remove identifying details, correct errors, or
implement other editorial decisions. Whenever reports
are used, credit will be given to the author.

Please consider carefully before submitting this
Experience Report. If selected, all information will
be publicly displayed.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 3/6/05 11:35:15 AM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Posted Feb. 16, 2005

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=39692

Beautufully told.

Howard

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT exorcism news
Date: March 6, 2005 at 9:45:31 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just released :
<SNIP>
Glimpses of the devil
Psychiatrist’s Personal Accounts of Possession, Exorcism, and Redemption

by M. Scott Peck PHD

The legendary bestselling author and renowned psychiatrist M. Scott Peck,
whose books have sold over 14 million copies, reveals the amazing true story
of his work as an exorcist — kept secret for more than twenty-five years —
in two profoundly human stories of satanic possession.

In the tradition of his million-copy bestseller People of the Lie: The Hope
for Healing Human Evil, Scott Peck’s new book offers the first complete
account of exorcism and possession by a modern psychiatrist in this
extraordinary personal narrative of his efforts to heal patients suffering
from demonic and satanic possession.

For the first time, Dr. Peck discusses his experience in conducting
exorcisms, sharing the spellbinding details of his two major cases: one a
moving testament to his healing abilities, and the other a perilous and
ultimately unsuccessful struggle against darkness and evil.
Twenty-seven-year-old Jersey was of average intelligence; a caring and
devoted wife and mother to her husband and two young daughters, she had no
history of mental illness. Beccah, in her mid-forties and with a superior
intellect, had suffered from profound depression throughout her life,
choosing to remain in an abusive relationship with her husband, one
dominated by distrust and greed.

Until the day Dr. Peck first met the young woman called Jersey, he did not
believe in the devil. In fact, as a mature, highly experienced psychiatrist,
he expected that this case would resolve his ongoing effort to prove to
himself, as scientifically as possible, that there were absolutely no
grounds for such beliefs. Yet what he discovered could not be explained away
simply as madness or by any standard clinical diagnosis. Through a series of
unanticipated events, Dr. Peck found himself thrust into the role of
exorcist, and his desire to treat and help Jersey led him down a path of
blurred boundaries between science and religion. Once there, he came
face-to-face with deeply entrenched evil and ultimately witnessed the
overwhelming healing power of love.

In Glimpses of the Devil, Dr. Peck’s celebrated gift for integrating
psychiatry and religion is demonstrated yet again as he recounts his journey
from skepticism to eventual acknowledgment of the reality of an evil spirit,
even at the risk of being shunned by the medical establishment. In the
process, he also finds himself compelled to confront the larger paradox of
free will, of a commitment to goodness versus enslavement to the forms of
evil, and the monumental clash of forces that endangers both sanity and the
soul.

Glimpses of the Devil is unquestionably among Scott Peck’s most powerful,
scrupulously written, and important books in many years. At once deeply
sensitive and intensely chilling, it takes a clear-eyed look at one of the
most mysterious and misunderstood areas of human experience.

<SNIP>
Love and peace
Francis

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From: “Kay Lee” <kaylee1@charter.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] TIRED OF THE DOUBLE STANDARD OF (IN)JUSTICE?
Date: March 6, 2005 at 9:00:13 PM EST
To: “MTWT Agrees with Petition” <kaylee1@charter.net>
Cc: “Drugwar Ibogaine List” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Petition for Harsh Sentencing of Guards and Cops
http://www.petitiononline.com/ohmtwt05/petition.html

We all agree that there are many professional Officers in law enforcement and the prisons, but we also realize that there are cops and guards who are so unprofessional as to be criminal.  Trouble is, they seldom are faced with the same punishment the rest of us suffer. The double standard is disgustingly obvious.

Laws are supposed to be written for the protection of ordinary citizens, yet every law produced lately gives growing protection to those who we pay to serve us. Why, if they are all doing their jobs properly, do they need protection from the people who pay them?

We’ve watched repeatedly as guilty guards and cops are exhonerated or slapped on the wrist and sent back in to do it again. Urge officials to get it right – The laws MUST be applied equally to those we put in public service. There should be millions of people signing this petition.  Kay Lee

To:  Goverment Officals
We the citizens of this country are tired of the prison guards doing a crime and not getting punished for it. They get put back into the system to continue their criminal behavior. We want tough sentencing for these CO’s and Cops that patrol our streets. We want them to recieve the maximum. They have authority and they misuse it to hurt others, so this needs to be addressd and serious changes need to be made. If you agree with harsh punishment for these offenders and do not want them back into system at all, please sign this petition. We will be sending this to Governors and Prison Directors and Senators.
Sincerely,
The Undersigned
http://www.petitiononline.com/ohmtwt05/petition.html
Petition Sponsored by
Ohio Making The Walls Transparent
http://www.angelfire.com/oh5/mtwt/
Surviving The System

Home

Shared by Kay Lee
kaylee1@charter.net
2683 Rockcliff Rd. SE
Atlanta, GA 30316
404-212-0690
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Making The Walls Transparent Prison Workers
http://www.angel fire.com/fl4/prison/guard.html
You will have to take the space out
of ‘angelfire’ for this link to work.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
“Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”- Malcolm X

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 6, 2005 at 6:23:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Dana,

You wrote in your letter     >>and I can’t think of any way of getting him off meth other
than pointing a gun at his head and locking him in a meth-free closet
for six months —  <<<<

Of course you can’t get him off meth or anything else.  HE is the one who must want to get off.  You may be able to help but it must be HIS decision.  Sometimes it must hurt enough where the person screams “That’s enough, I can’t take it anymore, I quit.”  Then they either quit or seek help in quitting.  From what I have read treatment centers, AA/NA, and methadone clinics all have about a 10% success rate.  That makes me believe that it doesn’t matter where you go or what you do – it is how bad you want to get off and how sick and loaded with problems you are.  When you really can’t take it anymore and life ain’t worth living you look for help.

He sounds like he has one foot in the grave and the other kicking the jailhouse door.  Often it is just a matter of time before luck runs out and ya get robbed or busted or shot or whatever.  He may of suffered unjustices, many of us had bad breaks, but we must sooner or later quit playing the part of the victum and stop using that as an excuse.  Provide him with moral support or help him any way you can but don’t be an enabler.

Best wish to ya,

– Jim

Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com> wrote:
From: roos@r3v.org

To make a long story short: I have two friends (a man and a woman, who
have been a couple for about 8 months) in the Bay Area (Stanford / Palo
Alto to be exact) who have gotten into a fucked-up sideways situation
centered around crystal meth. The man in about 35 years old, pretty
thoroughly addicted, and making really dumb decisions because of it….
the woman is about 21, loves him desperately, does meth with him, is
able to avoid it when not around him but returns when around him.

They have no money, but have friends who would help them if they
stopped wrapping their lips around the ol’ crystal pistol. Which is
mostly his issue, in that if he quit I believe she would too.

Questions:

1) I have not, as of yet, been able to find much literature or even
chatter relating to ibogaine use for crystal meth. I have a hunch it
would be fabulous, since so much of crystal meth addiction revolves
around a restricted reality tunnel and lack of physical empathy for
others (unless high.) Can you provide me with any links dealing with
ibogaine and crystal meth specifically?

2) Being in the tweek world, my friends tend to change their minds
quickly. If I can convince them to try Ibogaine, the deal has to be
closed ASAP. What is the closest, cheapest, soonest place they could
get ibogaine treatment? Is the free clinic in Vancouver still open?
If so, what would be the risks in crossing the Canadian border (they
could get a ride, but the man has some legal issues (posession
conviction) and is possibly in trouble with his parole officer.) Might
there be some sort of underground clinic in San Fran, or anywhere on
the West Coast, and if so how might I go about finding it and proving
that I’m not some sort of narc? I have friends in various San Fran
circles who can vouch for my integrity (at least when it comes to not
narc-ing on people!)

3) Would you recommend the ibogaine treatment for the woman, who is
probably a less-than-fully-addicted person? I’m saying is an ibogaine
trip generally produce enough insights for someone who is not
necessarily a “hopeless addict” but still has definite life issues that
need to be dealt with (combine with some excessive substance use
problems, and levels of denial that make verbal broaching of these
subjects difficult.)

I am researching these issues myself but am wondering if your group can
provide assistance.

Longer story, if you’re interested:

In various ways I helped get them into the situation, rode along for a
couple of oft-fun yet thoroughly twisted months, then bugged out in
order to gain perspective. I retreated to my folks’ pad in Minnesota,
where I am working on my own life, generally working on my own
neuroses, addictions, and compulsions, but constantly nagged by guilt
about my friends.

You see… for a few short weeks it really felt like we were building
something. We did many noble, beautiful, and virtuous things, and
suffered genuine injustices, at the hands of everyone from cops to
trust-a-farians to art fags to three hundred pound Tongans with tire
irons… my greatest regret, besides helping to cause the mess, is
that Hunter S Thomson died before he could read about it.

Some of the energy was real, but the meth was too disorientating, the
underworld too interesting, and the law too, uhh…. My center did
not hold, and I had to abandon them and they currently seem helpless to
deal with the meth situation: the man seems to be truly dependant on
meth, and the woman enters that world whenever she is with him (but
seems to have no problems avoiding meth when she is away) Currently her
choices seem to be (i) give up on this guy, or, (ii) stay with him in
his meth world, getting addicted with him. She genuinely loves guy,
and is sympathetic to his problems because he genuinely was victimized,
fucked over, and scapegoated along the way.

He doesn’t have the energy to fix his life, she doesn’t have the energy
to make him be responsible for fixing his life, she can’t stand the
thought of leaving him, her mother can’t stop calling me, the stress
and guilt from all this (and my part in enabling it) is a huge drag on
my life, and I can’t think of any way of getting him off meth other
than pointing a gun at his head and locking him in a meth-free closet
for six months — which is probably what some cop will do if he doesn’t
‘get his act together’ soon. He’s been railroaded into high-cost,
low-result rehab before (previous coke problems, not sure if he was
genuinely addicted or not at that time) and absolutely refuses to do so
again (as a borderline genius and psychonaut, he doesn’t exactly like
the institutional mindset.)

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Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 6, 2005 at 5:37:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are you talking to me?

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ajtcservice@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 9:36 PM
Subject: Spam Alert: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN

Please contact me privately

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,
Date: March 6, 2005 at 4:33:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear J. et al,

Staying clean…hmmm.  I don’t think I have all the
answers yet…BUT, I haven’t touched dope for almost 5
months, so I must be doing something right.

About two weeks ago, I had a minor crisis- I was so
grumpy, irritated and exasperated that I was on the
verge of copping.  Seeing as though I cut myself off
from all my dope-fiend friends, ‘copping’ would have
entailed making a trip to Kensington Market, trying to
find the glassy-eyed punk-type dude that would
PROBABLY have some smack, or at least a solid
connection.

I hopped on the streetcar, got about half way there,
and then started to remember exactly how it felt to
withdraw from dope/methadone.  I hopped off the
streetcar, called my boyfriend(a true saint) and told
him everything.  He talked me down, and I ended up
going home and smoking a big blunt.

Here is a list of things that have helped me stay
clean:

– remembering my experience with detoxification, how
shitty I felt, how awful it truly was
– looking at my bank statement.  I know it sounds like
a capitalist pig, but having more disposable income is
really fucking cool!
– keeping busy.  This is so important.  One of my
biggest triggers is boredom/apathy.
– Marijuana, in sometimes copious amounts.  Nuff
said..
– Physical activity- a great high.  Sex, workout,
anything, even a brisk winter walk.
– ‘Creative Art Therapy- paint a picture, do a
drawing, live some, mutha fucka!!
– Chatting on this list.  This has helped me soooooo
much.
– help someone.  By deflecting attention away from
yourself, you can get over your own little problems.
– Read a book.  Screw TV.

love Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new Erowid Ibo experience
Date: March 6, 2005 at 3:05:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/6/05 11:35:15 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Posted Feb. 16, 2005

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=39692

Beautufully told.

Howard

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,
Date: March 6, 2005 at 1:50:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Keeping clean ?/!
I will vote for the  list of Steve posted on Mindvox.

I will add the famous three M discovered by an anonymous scholar  :








Meditation,  Meetings and  Masturbation  LOL
_



and trying to don’t get involve romanticly in the first year.. 😉

God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “knowone knowwhere” <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,

Re: keeping clean, I have nothing to do with it but
as a Reader I would like to hear what EVERYONE has to
say, especially YOU dear reader.

“Put Something With Something And Make Something.”
-the D.O.C.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,
Date: March 6, 2005 at 12:57:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt,

Thanx for sending that…I really enjoyed it…very
real, very true..

love Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new Erowid Ibo experience
Date: March 6, 2005 at 12:54:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Shelley,

Thanx, sweetie…BUT, I regret to tell you that it
wasn’t my experience.  I was just reading up on
Ibogaine some more, and I came across this new post.

It moved me also…

Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,
Date: March 6, 2005 at 12:51:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Matt ,I had the spoon thing for a coupla years too, I could see where they had been bent -ewww!,yesterday I had on a piece of clothing I hadnt worn & found a lortab,it did take me a few minutes to think it over , then naaaah ,know what a little chippin brings , and threw it out onto the parking lot. Thanks for your post -shell

matthew zielinski <mattzielinski@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi
I liked the response Patrick gave on how he stays clean at the mindvox–by not sticking a needle in his arm—thats really funny but so true…..im staying clean by lstng to good music ie DEad can dance-reading good books—ie anything to do with the occult and literature esp Gothic/romantic and expanding my therious i have been privlidged to get through ibogaine..not going out much because lack of enrgy and too manyfucken trigers…its hard enough to walk into a kitchen and see a spoon HEH…Here is something i wrote on friday about staying clean if anybody s intersted

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T., Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 16:30:21 +0000 (GMT) Re: keeping clean, I have nothing to do with it but as a Reader I would like to hear what EVERYONE has to say, especially YOU dear reader. “Put Something With Something And Make Something.” -the D.O.C. http://www.gotwavs.com/0056218974/MP3S/TV_Shows/Three_Stooges/calngdocs.mp3 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*

> ATTACHMENT part 2 application/msword name=Staying clean after a succesfull enlightening ibogaine session.doc

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] new Erowid Ibo experience
Date: March 6, 2005 at 12:46:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Ms I boga, I just read your experience & it mad me cry with joy at the familiarity & gratitude that we have had the opportunity to experience the ibogaine journey, just think of all the elements of synchronicity taht come together for all this to have happened ,wow!-love shell

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Posted Feb. 16, 2005

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=39692

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,
Date: March 6, 2005 at 12:45:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
I liked the response Patrick gave on how he stays clean at the mindvox–by not sticking a needle in his arm—thats really funny but so true…..im staying clean by lstng to good music ie DEad can dance-reading good books—ie anything to do with the occult and literature esp Gothic/romantic and expanding my therious i have been privlidged to get through ibogaine..not going out much because lack of enrgy and too manyfucken trigers…its hard enough to walk into a kitchen and see a spoon HEH…Here is something i wrote on friday about staying clean if anybody s intersted

Warmest Regards

Matt

—-Original Message Follows—- From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T., Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 16:30:21 +0000 (GMT) Re: keeping clean, I have nothing to do with it but as a Reader I would like to hear what EVERYONE has to say, especially YOU dear reader. “Put Something With Something And Make Something.” -the D.O.C. http://www.gotwavs.com/0056218974/MP3S/TV_Shows/Three_Stooges/calngdocs.mp3 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Powerful parental controls improve your peace of mind with MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE*
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] new Erowid Ibo experience
Date: March 6, 2005 at 11:34:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Posted Feb. 16, 2005

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=39692

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Randy, Julie, Jasen, Ekki, Matt, FakeP, Eric T.,
Date: March 6, 2005 at 11:30:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Re: keeping clean, I have nothing to do with it but
as a Reader I would like to hear what EVERYONE has to
say, especially YOU dear reader.

“Put Something With Something And Make Something.”
-the D.O.C.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 6, 2005 at 11:10:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard.  You wouldn’t happen to know the
address for the Ft.Worth Narc Farm would you?
cheers,
Jason

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
It wouldn’t fit into aol’s text box so here is the
history of the federal
narcotics hospital at lexington on the UNDOC page
(attached).  ooops their goes
mindvox….i hope not.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/bulletin/bulletin_1962-01-01_3_page003.html

Howard

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Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Flows like Water~benjamin hoff
Date: March 6, 2005 at 10:50:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<“Good Morning house Plants…yeeess it’s Wake Up
time”>

“What could it be?” he mumbled.  “Flows like
Water…”

Using Wu Wei, you go by circumstances and listen to
your own intuition.  “This isn’t the best time to do
this.  I’d better go THAT way.”  Like that.  When you
do that sort of thing, people may say you have a Sixth
Sense or something.  All it really is, though, is
being Sensitive to Circumstances.  that’s just
Natural.  It’s only strange when you don’t listen.

“A Stream?” asked Pooh.
“What?”
“The answer.  A Stream flows like Water, reflects
like a mirror–”

“All right–to solve the Riddle, you need to let
your mind Flow along and Reflect what it sees.  Then
it can respond with the answers.  Get it?”
“No,” said Pooh.
“Oh, well.”
“Let me see–Flows like Water…,” muttered Pooh.

The Wu Wei principle underlying T’ai Chi Ch’uan can
be understood by striking at a piece of cork floatin
in Water.  The harder you hit it, the more it yields;
the  harder it bounces back.  Without expending
energy, the cork can easily wear you out.  So, Wu Wei
overcomes force by neutralizing it’s power, rather
than by adding to the conflict.  with other
approaches, you may fight Fire with Fire, but with Wu
Wei, you fight Fire with Water.

“I know,” said Pooh.  “A piece of cork!”
“What about it?”
“Responds like an echo!” he said triumphantly.
“But it doesn’t Flow like Water or Reflect like a
Mirror,” I said.
“Oh,” said Pooh.  That’s right.”

“All right, I give up.  What’s black and white and
red all over?”
“A sunburned penguin.”
“Pooh, that’s stupid.”
“Better then yours,” he said.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Ajtcservice@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 6, 2005 at 6:36:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please contact me privately

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 6, 2005 at 5:18:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It wouldn’t fit into aol’s text box so here is the history of the federal
narcotics hospital at lexington on the UNDOC page (attached).  ooops their goes
mindvox….i hope not.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/bulletin/bulletin_1962-01-01_3_page003.html

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 5, 2005 at 10:49:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi !
Just a word of caution if you have low blood pressure
Mulumbutu as extract  is good also  in a  hot bath..
http://www.plantaservas.hpg.ig.com.br/arquivos/ervas/mulungu.htm

Peace and love
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo

In a message dated 3/5/05 9:33:16 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< The most effective herbal I’ve found is mulungu:

http://www.rain-tree.com/mulungu.htm

“From The Healing Power of Rainforest Herbs: In both North and
South American herbal medicine systems mulungu is considered to be
an excellent sedative to calm agitation and nervous coughs and to
treat other nervous system problems including insomnia and anxiety.
… Two studies also indicate that it might be useful as an anti-
nicotine drug, as it demonstrated actions as a competitive
antagonist and to block nicotine receptors. Interestingly, both of
these studies were published by major (and competing)
pharmaceutical companies!”

rain-tree.com is a great resource of information as well as a
supplier. A 1-lb package for $19 lasts a long, long time. >>

Thanks slowone@hush.ai

Here are some citations from pubmed. Search term, Erythrina mulungu
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed

Looks like an interesting plant.

Howard

J Pharm Pharmacol. 2004 Mar;56(3):389-93.

Central activity of hydroalcoholic extracts from Erythrina velutina and
Erythrina mulungu in mice.
Vasconcelos SM, Macedo DS, de Melo CT, Paiva Monteiro A, Rodrigues AC,
Silveira ER, Cunha GM, Sousa FC, Viana GS.
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Federal University of Ceara, Rua
Cel. Nunes de Melo 1127, CEP 60431-270, Fortaleza, Brazil.
claussil@bol.com.br
This work studied the central behavioural effects of hydroalcoholic extracts
from the stem bark of Erythrina velutina and Erythrina mulungu on the
elevated
plus maze, open field, and rota rod tests in mice. These medicinal plants
belong to the Fabaceae family and are popularly used in Brazil for their
effects
on the central nervous system. Single doses of the extracts were
administered
orally (200, 400 or 800 mg kg(-1)) or intraperitoneally (200 or 400 mg
kg(-1))
to female mice. A reduction of the locomotor activity was observed in the
open field test with both hydroalcoholic extracts after intraperitoneal
treatment
with all doses, but only with the highest dose after oral administration. In
addition, oral and intraperitoneal administration of the extracts decreased
the incidence of rearing and grooming. Decreases in the number of entries in
the
open (NEOA) and closed (NECA) arms of the elevated plus maze were observed
after the administration of the highest dose (800 mg kg(-1), p.o.) of both
hydroalcoholic extracts, and this effect may be due to the decrease in
locomotor
activity. These hydroalcoholic extracts failed to affect the motor
coordination
in the rota rod test. In conclusion, we showed that the hydroalcoholic
extracts of E. velutina and E. mulungu have depressant effects on the
central nervous
system, which, at least partially, corroborates the popular use of these
species as tranquilizers in Brazilian popular medicine.

Effects of chronic treatment with a water-alcohol extract from Erythrina
mulungu on anxiety-related responses in rats.
Onusic GM, Nogueira RL, Pereira AM, Flausino Junior OA, Viana Mde B.
Laboratory of Psychopharmacology, FFCLRP, University of Sao Paulo, Sao
Paulo,
Brazil.
We investigated the effects of chronic oral treatment with a water-alcohol
extract from the inflorescence of Erythrina mulungu
(Leguminosae-Papilionaceae)
(EM, 50, 100, 200 mg/kg) in rats submitted to different anxiety models: the
elevated T-maze (ETM, for inhibitory avoidance and escape measurements), the
light/dark transition, and the cat odor test. These models were selected for
their capacity to elicit specific subtypes of anxiety disorders as
recognized in
clinical practice. Treatment with EM impaired inhibitory avoidance latencies
in
a way similar to the reference drug, diazepam (DZP). Additionally, both EM
and DZP increased the number of transitions and the time spent in the
lighted
compartment of the light/dark transition model. Furthermore, neither EM nor
DZP
altered behavioral responses of rats to a cloth impregnated with cat odor.
In
contrast to DZP, however, EM also altered ETM one-way escape. These results
were not due to motor alterations since no significant effects were detected
in
the number of crossings or rearings in the arena. The present observations
suggest that chronic EM exerts anxiolytic-like effects in defensive
behaviors
related to generalized anxiety and panic disorder. Although alkaloids appear
to
be one of the main constituents of EM, the possible mechanisms through which
the extract exerts its anxiolytic action should be further investigated.

Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Jul;26(7):946-9. Related Articles, Links

Antinociceptive activities of the hydroalcoholic extracts from Erythrina
velutina and Erythrina mulungu in mice.
Vasconcelos SM, Reboucas Oliveira G, Mohana de Carvalho M, Rodrigues AC,
Rocha Silveira E, Maria Franca Fonteles M, Florenco Sousa FC, Barros Viana
GS.
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Federal University of Ceara,
Brazil.
This work studied the antinociceptive effects of the hydroalcoholic extracts
(HAEs) from Erythrina velutina (Ev) and Erythrina mulungu (Em) in three
experimental models of nociception in mice. The extract was administered
intraperitoneally to female mice at the doses of 200 and 400 mg/kg.
Inhibitions of
abdominal contractions were observed with the doses of 200 (88.6%; 86.8%)
and 400
(95.5%; 83.5%) mg/kg of E. velutina and E. mulungu, respectively, as
compared to
controls. E. velutina and E. mulungu, at both doses, reduced the nociception
produced by formalin in the 1st and 2nd phases and this effect was not
reversed by the pretreatment with naloxone. In the hot plate test an
increase of the
reaction time was observed only at 60 (Ev=18.0+/-2.2; Em=20.8+/-2.52) and 90
min (Ev=20.4+/-1.71; Em=23.7+/-2.32) after the treatment with E. velutina
and
E. mulungu at the dose of 400 mg/kg as compared to controls
(T60=11.1+/-0.74;
T90=11.9+/-0.86). This effect was not reversed

Braz J Med Biol Res. 2002 Apr;35(4):473-7.  Related Articles, Links

Effect of acute treatment with a water-alcohol extract of Erythrina mulungu
on anxiety-related responses in rats.
Onusic GM, Nogueira RL, Pereira AM, Viana MB.
Laboratorio de Psicofarmacologia, Faculdade de Filosofia, Ciencias e Letras
de Ribeirao Preto, Universidade de Sao Paulo, Ribeirao Preto, SP, Brasil.
We investigated the effect of acute oral treatment with a water-alcohol
extract of the inflorescence of Erythrina mulungu (EM,
Leguminosae-Papilionaceae)
(100, 200 and 400 mg/kg) on rats submitted to different anxiety models: the
elevated T-maze (for inhibitory avoidance and escape measurements), the
light/dark transition, and the cat odor test. These models were selected for
their
presumed capacity to demonstrate specific subtypes of anxiety disorders as
recognized in clinical practice. Treatment with 200 mg/kg EM impaired
avoidance
latencies (avoidance 1 – 200 mg/kg EM: 18 +/- 7 s, control group: 40 +/- 9
s;
avoidance 2 – 200 mg/kg EM: 15 +/- 4 s, control group: 110.33 +/- 38 s) in a
way
similar to the reference drug diazepam (avoidance 1: 3 +/- 0.79 s; avoidance
2:
3 +/- 0.76 s), without altering escape. Additionally, the same treatments
increased the number of transitions (200 mg/kg EM: 6.33 +/- 0.90, diazepam:
10 +/-
1.54, control group: 2.78 +/- 0.60) between the two compartments and the
time
spent in the lighted compartment in the light/dark transition model (200
mg/kg EM: 39 +/- 7 s; diazepam: 61 +/- 9 s; control group: 14 +/- 4 s). The
dose
of 400 mg/kg EM also increased this last measurement (38 +/- 8 s). These
results were not due to motor alterations since no significant effects were
detected
in the number of crossings or rearings in the arena. Furthermore, neither EM
nor diazepam altered the behavioral responses of rats to a cloth impregnated
with cat odor. These observations suggest that EM exerts anxiolytic-like
effects on a specific subset of defensive behaviors, particularly those that
have
been shown to be sensitive to low doses of benzodiazepines.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 5, 2005 at 10:14:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/5/05 9:33:16 PM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

<< The most effective herbal I’ve found is mulungu:

http://www.rain-tree.com/mulungu.htm

“From The Healing Power of Rainforest Herbs: In both North and
South American herbal medicine systems mulungu is considered to be
an excellent sedative to calm agitation and nervous coughs and to
treat other nervous system problems including insomnia and anxiety.
… Two studies also indicate that it might be useful as an anti-
nicotine drug, as it demonstrated actions as a competitive
antagonist and to block nicotine receptors. Interestingly, both of
these studies were published by major (and competing)
pharmaceutical companies!”

rain-tree.com is a great resource of information as well as a
supplier. A 1-lb package for $19 lasts a long, long time. >>

Thanks slowone@hush.ai

Here are some citations from pubmed. Search term, Erythrina mulungu
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=PubMed

Looks like an interesting plant.

Howard

J Pharm Pharmacol. 2004 Mar;56(3):389-93.

Central activity of hydroalcoholic extracts from Erythrina velutina and
Erythrina mulungu in mice.
Vasconcelos SM, Macedo DS, de Melo CT, Paiva Monteiro A, Rodrigues AC,
Silveira ER, Cunha GM, Sousa FC, Viana GS.
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Federal University of Ceara, Rua
Cel. Nunes de Melo 1127, CEP 60431-270, Fortaleza, Brazil. claussil@bol.com.br
This work studied the central behavioural effects of hydroalcoholic extracts
from the stem bark of Erythrina velutina and Erythrina mulungu on the elevated
plus maze, open field, and rota rod tests in mice. These medicinal plants
belong to the Fabaceae family and are popularly used in Brazil for their effects
on the central nervous system. Single doses of the extracts were administered
orally (200, 400 or 800 mg kg(-1)) or intraperitoneally (200 or 400 mg kg(-1))
to female mice. A reduction of the locomotor activity was observed in the
open field test with both hydroalcoholic extracts after intraperitoneal treatment
with all doses, but only with the highest dose after oral administration. In
addition, oral and intraperitoneal administration of the extracts decreased
the incidence of rearing and grooming. Decreases in the number of entries in the
open (NEOA) and closed (NECA) arms of the elevated plus maze were observed
after the administration of the highest dose (800 mg kg(-1), p.o.) of both
hydroalcoholic extracts, and this effect may be due to the decrease in locomotor
activity. These hydroalcoholic extracts failed to affect the motor coordination
in the rota rod test. In conclusion, we showed that the hydroalcoholic
extracts of E. velutina and E. mulungu have depressant effects on the central nervous
system, which, at least partially, corroborates the popular use of these
species as tranquilizers in Brazilian popular medicine.

Effects of chronic treatment with a water-alcohol extract from Erythrina
mulungu on anxiety-related responses in rats.
Onusic GM, Nogueira RL, Pereira AM, Flausino Junior OA, Viana Mde B.
Laboratory of Psychopharmacology, FFCLRP, University of Sao Paulo, Sao Paulo,
Brazil.
We investigated the effects of chronic oral treatment with a water-alcohol
extract from the inflorescence of Erythrina mulungu (Leguminosae-Papilionaceae)
(EM, 50, 100, 200 mg/kg) in rats submitted to different anxiety models: the
elevated T-maze (ETM, for inhibitory avoidance and escape measurements), the
light/dark transition, and the cat odor test. These models were selected for
their capacity to elicit specific subtypes of anxiety disorders as recognized in
clinical practice. Treatment with EM impaired inhibitory avoidance latencies in
a way similar to the reference drug, diazepam (DZP). Additionally, both EM
and DZP increased the number of transitions and the time spent in the lighted
compartment of the light/dark transition model. Furthermore, neither EM nor DZP
altered behavioral responses of rats to a cloth impregnated with cat odor. In
contrast to DZP, however, EM also altered ETM one-way escape. These results
were not due to motor alterations since no significant effects were detected in
the number of crossings or rearings in the arena. The present observations
suggest that chronic EM exerts anxiolytic-like effects in defensive behaviors
related to generalized anxiety and panic disorder. Although alkaloids appear to
be one of the main constituents of EM, the possible mechanisms through which
the extract exerts its anxiolytic action should be further investigated.

Biol Pharm Bull. 2003 Jul;26(7):946-9. Related Articles, Links

Antinociceptive activities of the hydroalcoholic extracts from Erythrina
velutina and Erythrina mulungu in mice.
Vasconcelos SM, Reboucas Oliveira G, Mohana de Carvalho M, Rodrigues AC,
Rocha Silveira E, Maria Franca Fonteles M, Florenco Sousa FC, Barros Viana GS.
Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, Federal University of Ceara,
Brazil.
This work studied the antinociceptive effects of the hydroalcoholic extracts
(HAEs) from Erythrina velutina (Ev) and Erythrina mulungu (Em) in three
experimental models of nociception in mice. The extract was administered
intraperitoneally to female mice at the doses of 200 and 400 mg/kg. Inhibitions of
abdominal contractions were observed with the doses of 200 (88.6%; 86.8%) and 400
(95.5%; 83.5%) mg/kg of E. velutina and E. mulungu, respectively, as compared to
controls. E. velutina and E. mulungu, at both doses, reduced the nociception
produced by formalin in the 1st and 2nd phases and this effect was not
reversed by the pretreatment with naloxone. In the hot plate test an increase of the
reaction time was observed only at 60 (Ev=18.0+/-2.2; Em=20.8+/-2.52) and 90
min (Ev=20.4+/-1.71; Em=23.7+/-2.32) after the treatment with E. velutina and
E. mulungu at the dose of 400 mg/kg as compared to controls (T60=11.1+/-0.74;
T90=11.9+/-0.86). This effect was not reversed

Braz J Med Biol Res. 2002 Apr;35(4):473-7.  Related Articles, Links

Effect of acute treatment with a water-alcohol extract of Erythrina mulungu
on anxiety-related responses in rats.
Onusic GM, Nogueira RL, Pereira AM, Viana MB.
Laboratorio de Psicofarmacologia, Faculdade de Filosofia, Ciencias e Letras
de Ribeirao Preto, Universidade de Sao Paulo, Ribeirao Preto, SP, Brasil.
We investigated the effect of acute oral treatment with a water-alcohol
extract of the inflorescence of Erythrina mulungu (EM, Leguminosae-Papilionaceae)
(100, 200 and 400 mg/kg) on rats submitted to different anxiety models: the
elevated T-maze (for inhibitory avoidance and escape measurements), the
light/dark transition, and the cat odor test. These models were selected for their
presumed capacity to demonstrate specific subtypes of anxiety disorders as
recognized in clinical practice. Treatment with 200 mg/kg EM impaired avoidance
latencies (avoidance 1 – 200 mg/kg EM: 18 +/- 7 s, control group: 40 +/- 9 s;
avoidance 2 – 200 mg/kg EM: 15 +/- 4 s, control group: 110.33 +/- 38 s) in a way
similar to the reference drug diazepam (avoidance 1: 3 +/- 0.79 s; avoidance 2:
3 +/- 0.76 s), without altering escape. Additionally, the same treatments
increased the number of transitions (200 mg/kg EM: 6.33 +/- 0.90, diazepam: 10 +/-
1.54, control group: 2.78 +/- 0.60) between the two compartments and the time
spent in the lighted compartment in the light/dark transition model (200
mg/kg EM: 39 +/- 7 s; diazepam: 61 +/- 9 s; control group: 14 +/- 4 s). The dose
of 400 mg/kg EM also increased this last measurement (38 +/- 8 s). These
results were not due to motor alterations since no significant effects were detected
in the number of crossings or rearings in the arena. Furthermore, neither EM
nor diazepam altered the behavioral responses of rats to a cloth impregnated
with cat odor. These observations suggest that EM exerts anxiolytic-like
effects on a specific subset of defensive behaviors, particularly those that have
been shown to be sensitive to low doses of benzodiazepines.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 5, 2005 at 9:32:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The most effective herbal I’ve found is mulungu:

http://www.rain-tree.com/mulungu.htm

“From The Healing Power of Rainforest Herbs: In both North and
South American herbal medicine systems mulungu is considered to be
an excellent sedative to calm agitation and nervous coughs and to
treat other nervous system problems including insomnia and anxiety.
… Two studies also indicate that it might be useful as an anti-
nicotine drug, as it demonstrated actions as a competitive
antagonist and to block nicotine receptors. Interestingly, both of
these studies were published by major (and competing)
pharmaceutical companies!”

rain-tree.com is a great resource of information as well as a
supplier. A 1-lb package for $19 lasts a long, long time.

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 06:51:02 -0800 shelley krupa
<skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey All ,so glad to see so many keeping clean, things are good for

me now! But I’m gonna grill yall for any tips you might have about

the post ibo insomnia, I’m trying 5htp,b12,melatonin,an herbal
blend for sleep ,chinese herbs,acupuncture, any one know anything
else?love shell

Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com> wrote:Sure Randy ….. knock
yourself out.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Todd, I hope you don’t mind but I want to send your
post about your Ibogaine
experience to a friend of mine who directs a
methadone clinic in the South.
I’m compiling data and accounts of treatment for
him. This guy is an exception
to most people in a position of authority at the
clinics in the US. He wants
what is best for the addict. After all, that’s what
methadone was supposed to be
about in the first place. Life Rocks, turn it up.
Randy

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Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Captain Kirk.
Date: March 5, 2005 at 6:57:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Captain,

Good to hear from you. I kept getting messages that your mailbox was full.
I was a little concerned.

What I meant by “Not a provider but a carer” is, I cannot provide the Iboga,
however if someone had there own, and needed a carer for free, I would be
willing to be their sitter at my place or their’s in Brisbane.

I would like to go to Gabon sometime in the next year or two, just waiting
for my finances to get back up there. I am still recovering financially from
all the shit that went down after getting home.

I would dearly love to be a provider over this way, however it would have to be
underground. I would be prepared to risk getting busted to help others as I
have been helped. Like all the good folk already underground risking there
ass’s to help those in need. POWER TO ALL OF THEM.

At the moment I do not have the experience neccesary.

Hey Capt’ how about beaming me over for a visit.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen….

Hi there,
Been working hard, no energy for internet, and omg coupla hundred Ibogaine emails alone ,…
Is there much of a difference between providing and caring? I guess a provider may provide the ibogaine, but then what they do is care aint it?
Ok, Jasen the Caring.
Hehheh
Kiss hugs
Kirk
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Sunday, 20 February 2005 12:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Hey Captain,

Not a provider,..just a carer.

love,
Jasen.  Woooooo. 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Hey, how bout a free trip to NZ at some stage???
Serious! There’s some cheap fares about!
Wooooo Jasen the Provider!!! For South Pacific? Hehheh
Good on ya for offering
Kirk dah Kiwi
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Monday, 14 February 2005 5:03 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Dear Shell,

Go shelly baby,I will light a candle for you.
Make sure someone is with you,..hey.

If anyone in Queensland Australia needs a sitter
contact me, I will help and sit with you,be there
for you and nurse you.

Thankyou Sara, I will call soon.

Go Shelly baby!     Yeah!
love,
Jasen 😉
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:05 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Hey list! Everythings set for my session on feb 19th!! !Ive never done it in a hotel setting, only a clinic & at an angels home. Any suggestions? Ive set up music,earplugs,face mask for room darkening.Also got my sound machine with lots of flowing water options,and essential oil aromatherapy too.Doing an adjoining room at my providers request.Kinda weird that Ive never met the sitter,but he’s experienced I hear &” real sweet”.Vibes in hotels can be real weird sometimes.You’d think at trip # four I’d be confident,guess my ego is trying to hold on to some control,HA! I’m wanting support from you folks,please. I have total confidence in this provider,the rest is up to the iboga gods.Got two weeks off work to recoup & integrate back slowly without the pressure of my work persona. I’ll keep yall posted ,love shell

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 – Release Date: 02/03/2005

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 – Release Date: 02/03/2005

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 – Release Date: 02/03/2005

–
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.302 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 – Release Date: 02/03/2005

From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 5, 2005 at 4:29:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A lot of high quality cannabis or cannabis food, helps me sleep.  I’ll have been clean a year at the end of March and I still don’t sleep great.  With Cannabis I can sleep about 5-6 hours a night.  After a mushrooms trip I can sleep well, though.  Had the most sleep at once since I took Ibogaine, after eating mushrooms the other night.  Could be just me, though…
CE

ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> wrote:
hi shelly, good to hear you are clean, too.

Am 05.03.2005 um 15:51 schrieb shelley krupa:

> Hey All ,so glad to see so many keeping clean, things are good for me
> now! But I’m gonna grill yall for any tips you might have about the
> post ibo insomnia, I’m trying 5htp,b12,melatonin,an herbal blend for
> sleep ,chinese herbs,acupuncture, any one know anything else?love
> shell

an antihistamine. i donīt know how the pills are called where you live,
but in germany the substance is called “Doxylaminsuccinat”, available
without recipe and very cheap. i cannot recommend it without saying
that some people donīt like them. i used them the 3rd week post-ibo
with good results. together with melatonin i got sound sleep and
colourful dreams. low dosage is important (20-60mg), otherwise you can
get reversed effects and a hangover the next day.

if you have taken ibo four times you have much more experience than
myself, but since you asked: sauna, long walks and getting up very
early in the morning was helpful.

btw, did you have a full-blown journey everytime you did ibo? i heard
this major experience cannot be repeated very often.

funny: in all those withdrawals i longed for sleep and couldnīt but now
i sleep very well and donīt appreciate it because now there is so much
to do.

good luck
ekki

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Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 5, 2005 at 4:18:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah

Thinking of you babes, be strong keep your chin up

Love Donnaxxxxxxxxxxx

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 5, 2005 at 2:57:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi shelly, good to hear you are clean, too.

Am 05.03.2005 um 15:51 schrieb shelley krupa:

Hey All ,so glad to see so many keeping clean, things are good for me now! But I’m gonna grill yall for any tips you might have about the post ibo insomnia, I’m trying 5htp,b12,melatonin,an herbal blend for sleep ,chinese herbs,acupuncture, any one know anything else?love shell

an antihistamine. i don´t know how the pills are called where you live, but in germany the substance is called “Doxylaminsuccinat”, available without recipe and very cheap. i cannot recommend it without saying that some people don´t like them. i used them the 3rd week post-ibo with good results. together with melatonin i got sound sleep and colourful dreams. low dosage is important (20-60mg), otherwise you can get reversed effects and a hangover the next day.

if you have taken ibo four times you have much more experience than myself, but since you asked: sauna, long walks and getting up very early in the morning was helpful.

btw, did you have a full-blown journey everytime you did ibo? i heard this major experience cannot be repeated very often.

funny: in all those withdrawals i longed for sleep and couldn´t but now i sleep very well and don´t appreciate it because now there is so much to do.

good luck
ekki

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From: Michelle Palmer <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re[2]: [Ibogaine] Michelle
Date: March 5, 2005 at 1:35:19 PM EST
To: Hannah Clay <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Michelle,

I’m sending all my love and positive energy your way.  You sound like an
amazing woman and I really think you can do this.  Just one step at a
time…. 😉

Hannah xxx

Hannah,

Thanks, that means a lot. My thoughts have been with you lately, as well. One thing I’ve learned from all the dying is that everything is very temporary. I find it helps to remember that on bad days-it helps me wait it out. Trust me though, despite my kids’ amazement, there is nothing amazing about what I’m doing. I knew it was about to kill me- I was hitting the threshold of CNS depression, lots of pneumonia- and I’m not so secure in my beliefs that I’m ready for that 😉

Peace,
Michelle

“I was in heaven, I was in hell. Believe in neither, fear them as well.”
Modest Mouse
‘Doin’ the Cockroach’

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From: <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Web page referral: snopes.com
Date: March 5, 2005 at 12:55:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought this entry from the Urban Legends Reference Pages
at snopes.com might interest you:

http://www.snopes.com/computer/virus/card.asp

The virus is a hoax!

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Michelle
Date: March 5, 2005 at 12:39:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Michelle,

I’m sending all my love and positive energy your way.  You sound like an
amazing woman and I really think you can do this.  Just one step at a
time…. 😉

Hannah xxx

—– Original Message —–
From: “Michelle” <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help

—–Original Message—–
From: NewCathy40@aol.com [mailto:NewCathy40@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 9:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help

Hello,

I am a fourty year old woman and I have been dealing with a serious
addiction
to pain medications for 15 years. I have gone through several detox
programs
which were somewhat helpful but didn’t stop my addictions. I have had
several
relapses and just cannot kick the habit. I just don’t know how much
longer
I can
take it. I have lost a 13 year old daughter in a car accident at a
time I
was
clean. It took three months of fighting before I gave up and relapsed.
Since then
my struggle with drugs has been my major focus in life. I cannot hold
a
job
anymore, I don’t really have a life.

<snip>
[mp]
Cathy,

I’m 41, and I was using hydrocodone (10/325) & soma, every 1.5-2 hours
for the last 3 years of this 9 year run. I’m hanging out here because I
have issues with spirituality, so I’m keeping my options open in case I
fuck up again.

I started WD 31 days ago. By day 5 I was 15 pounds lighter, and bloody
miserable. Pain killers can be tough. It didn’t take me long to realize
I couldn’t do this shit alone. Last April my husband OD’d on methadone,
and two weeks ago my step-dad died of Cancer. Everybody else in my
family is already dead except my girls, but you can’t talk to kids about
wishing you could go play in traffic.

Rehab has never done a thing for me. I’m way too accomplished at BS’ing
medical personnel. I ace psych evaluations when I’m suicidal.

I tried the AA thing once before, but I couldn’t do it then. This time I
decided I would just drag my ass to meetings whether I wanted to or not.
I went to NA this time. For the last 2 weeks I’ve gone and listened.
Talking is pretty impossible with the panic running, but I sat in a
corner and listened.

3 days ago, I realized I didn’t think my god was quite as big an asshole
as I thought. It’s still touch and go, and grief just makes it fucking
hard, but a lot of loud music, other people who have survived being
clean, and reminding myself that it’s been 28 years since I’ve been this
awake – so, yeah, it’s gonna be really uncomfortable – has helped.

I guess what I’m saying is there might be something that would help that
you thought you’ve tried, but maybe didn’t give a chance because it hurt
too much. It doesn’t matter what it is, as long as it doesn’t kill you.
It is especially hard to give something a chance when being clean just
makes you want to die. But, to borrow a very tired cliché, this too
shall pass.

Peace,
Michelle

p.s.
even crushing despair has a limited shelf-life.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey Julie / There?
Date: March 5, 2005 at 11:05:31 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey there,

So glad to hear you’re still around.  I sent you an
email a while back, and never heard anything.

My sleeping patterns are still a bit screwed up, and
it’s almost 5 months.  I wake up a few times per
night, regardless of my diet, exercise levels,
etc…etc…etc…  My doc says it takes AT LEAST 5-6
months to recover from methadone, but you were on the
(H)orse, weren’t you?

Maybe 5-6 hours is all you need, but you said you feel
tired, right?  Have you tried melatonin, or smoking
pot?  Pot helps a bit, but I’m wondering if (in the
long run) it’s screwing up the sleeping patterns
more…?

I wanted to ask you about your ayahuasca experience
too..  I want to try it when the weather gets better,
but there are so many different recipes, I’m not sure
which one to choose.  Did you use Syrian Rue, or not?

BTW, M., you sound amazing!!  I’m so happy for you..

love Julie

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] two weeks post ibo
Date: March 5, 2005 at 9:51:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey All ,so glad to see so many keeping clean, things are good for me now! But I’m gonna grill yall for any tips you might have about the post ibo insomnia, I’m trying 5htp,b12,melatonin,an herbal blend for sleep ,chinese herbs,acupuncture, any one know anything else?love shell

Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sure Randy ….. knock yourself out.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

> Todd, I hope you don’t mind but I want to send your
> post about your Ibogaine
> experience to a friend of mine who directs a
> methadone clinic in the South.
> I’m compiling data and accounts of treatment for
> him. This guy is an exception
> to most people in a position of authority at the
> clinics in the US. He wants
> what is best for the addict. After all, that’s what
> methadone was supposed to be
> about in the first place. Life Rocks, turn it up.
> Randy
>

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [Ibogaine] WORST VIRUS EVER —CNN ANNOUNCED
Date: March 5, 2005 at 7:52:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

: 

WORST VIRUS EVER —CNN ANNOUNCED 

PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERYONE ON YOUR CONTACT LIST!!! 


A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by Microsoft 
as the most destructive ever. This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon 
by McAfee and no vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys 
Sector Zero from the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning 
are stored. 

This virus acts in the following manner: 
It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title: 
”A Card for You”. 


As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened the computer freezes so that 
the user has to reboot. When the ctrl+alt+del keys or the reset button are 
pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus permanently destroying the 
hard disk. Yesterday in just a few hours this virus caused panic in New 
York, according to news broadcast by CNN. 


This alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself. 
So don’t open any mails with subject: “A Virtual Card for You.” As soon as 
you get the mail, delete it! Even if you know the sender !!! 


Please pass this mail to all of your friends. 

Forward this to everyone in your address book. I’m sure most people, like 
myself, would rather receive this notice 25 times than not at all. 



and this one came from a friend in Australia……. 

VERY IMPORTANT WARNING. 
>———————————————————————- – 
> Please be extremely careful especially if using internet mail such as 
> Yahoo, Hotmail, AOL and so on. This information arrived this morning from 
> Microsoft and Norton. Please send it to everybody you know who accesses 
> the Internet. You may receive an apparently harmless email with a Power 
> Point 
> presentation “Life is beautiful. pps”. If you receive it DO NOT OPEN THE 
> FILE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, and delete it immediately. if you open this 
> file, a message will appear on your screen saying: “It is too late now, 
> your life is no longer beautiful”, subsequently you will LOSE EVERYTHING 
> IN YOUR PC and the person who sent it to you gain access to your name, 
> e-mail and password. This is a new virus which started to circulate on 
> Saturday afternoon. WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO STOP THIS VIRUS. 
> AOL has already confirmed the severity, and the antivirus Software’s are 
> not capable of destroying it. The virus has been created by a hacker who 
> calls himself “life owner”. PLEASE MAKE A COPY OF THIS EMAIL TO ALL YOUR 
> FRIENDS and PASS IT ON IMMEDIATELY PLEASE.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Ibogaine Solo or in group ?
Date: March 5, 2005 at 6:09:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/4/2005 10:36:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Steven writes:
It would be silly to
duplicate the ceremony exactly. These traditions should be incorporated in a
home grown way
I got it. There is a religious movement down home (I think they’re Pentecostal) that handles snakes, drinks poison, and speaks in tongues to prove their faith. We replace the rat poison with Iboga, (might taste worse), replace the copper heads and rattlesnakes with Gabon vipers, and then we might be able to understand what the fuck they are mumbling about. They already dance and move about when they are in these trances, and everybody knows that we all screw our cousins down south, so it kind of goes along with the Bwiti recommendation about sex and dancing post Iboga. It’s evolution waiting to happen.   Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 5, 2005 at 5:32:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt, I’m not preachin’ to anybody. I guess what I’m doing is wasting my fucking time until I can do what I want to do. I’ll try and refrain from boring you intellectual types with repetitive rants about Ibogaine. I’ll try and stick to whacked out diversions from reality for everyone’s entertainment from now on. But just remember, as the Reverend Horton Heet say’s……………………………… I  GOTTA  WIGGLE STICK MOMMA…………….aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa what the fuck.             Randy

From: Mustafa İzgi <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hey Julie / There?
Date: March 5, 2005 at 3:17:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,
How are you? I’m very well; feel great. But I can’t sleep normaly yet. So I feel tired that’s because I couldn’t be avaible to sleep more than 5-6 hours at night.

Ibogain has changed my personality to the different way. I have very big joy of life. Every day every hour; I feel hapy. This is not the way I used to. Maybe Serotonin levels rised? I don’t know…

What about you?

Best Regards
M

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Ibogaine Solo or in group ?
Date: March 4, 2005 at 10:27:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI Steve !!
You wrote :

It would be silly to
duplicate the ceremony exactly. These traditions should be incorporated in a
home grown way.  I think it would be great if one of the providers learned
to be a Nganga in Gabon, or if people got together and brought a Nganga over
here. I have some great contacts if anyone needs them. Whatever you do, do
not believe Daniel Pinchbeck’s account. He made many mistakes and I say that
as a friend.

## Actualy , it’s a place in the south  of France ( in a castle, s’il vous
plait !) where they do the Bwiti ceremony withNganga, musiciens and the all
ritual last two days. You probably know about it. What I found interesting
is that they give Ibogaine to a whole group in the same time. Some are there
for psycological issues, anothers for a spiritual research, another are just
curious and anothers for alcohol or drug addictions .

Personaly I like the idea but I don’t know exactly why 🙂 Probably because
inconsciously I would have less fears in a group ?

What do you think ?/!
Love and peace
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 5:05 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN

I’m saying I like it, but one thing. You know the name “Keeping Clean” is
a
little obnoxious and disrespectful to people who aren’t clean. I love
this
whole place because it’s not judgmental. The contents of Keeping Clean
aren’t judgmental either, but the title of that whole section on Mindvox
and the title of the Keeping Clean article does dis people aren’t clean.

I’m mentioning it because I don’t feel disrespect from any part of what’s
here, but I think that title disrespects people who are still using
drugs.

Gosh Cheryl, I’m sorry. No disrespect was intended to anyone with the
title.
It was meant to help people who want to stay clean. I have absolutely no
problem with anyone who wants to do drugs. God bless. Get Patrick to
change
it, I don’t care. I used it for a very silly reason. I made a short film
17
years ago titled “Keeping Clean.” Sounded catchy and was sentimental on my
part. I didn’t like the name “After Ibogaine” which was also considered.
What? We only help people who have taken ibo? That’s not nice. What would
you like it called?

Maybe make a part that’s how to do drugs with the least amount of harm,
how
to get by and even benefit from them. Ummm… Preston? I can give tips.
Dope
helped me plenty. I am glad I am off of it, though. Nearly 20 years was
plenty for me. My wife likes me better as well. There are some very caring
healers out there on this list who can make it better. Make it better
then.
There has to be something better than a new title to put in there. Jeez. I
took advice from all over, half of it was written by people who haven’t
taken ibo. Post ideas you want added and I’ll save them and pass them on
to
PK.

Randy, the Bwiti know addiction, there is heroin there. They know what
they
are doing in using the root as medicine. Addiction is just one small part
of
it. It’s sacred dude! Let me know if SMART helps you at all. You are
probably in good hands with NA, seems good for you. You may learn a few
tools. Like anything it’s not for everyone.

Because I need a hobby: Some thoughts to share from a conversation with
Matt
off site, he asked a bunch of questions.

No, I don’t think ibo is for everyone. Think about it this way. Bwiti is a
religion. Is Christianity for everyone? Muslim, Hindu, Sufi, Buddhist,
Scientology for everyone?

My other sense is that providers/people would benefit if the traditional
knowledge of ibo were incorporated into treatment here. It would be silly
to
duplicate the ceremony exactly. These traditions should be incorporated in
a
home grown way.  I think it would be great if one of the providers learned
to be a Nganga in Gabon, or if people got together and brought a Nganga
over
here. I have some great contacts if anyone needs them. Whatever you do, do
not believe Daniel Pinchbeck’s account. He made many mistakes and I say
that
as a friend.

Trust me: The Bwiti Know What The Fuck They Are Doing With The Root. When
to
sit, drink, etc… Why not learn from them?

Zealousness for anything can be scary to me. A little more with iboga when
I
realize that we don’t really know the root and it is incredibly powerful,
mysterious and sacred. And for some very dangerous. One thing the Bwiti
told
me in a rather stern voice during the initiation was “God did not make
iboga
for a bunch of rich junkies in the West to kick!”. It’s part of it, it’s a
trick to get us over there. Another question I had for the Bwiti was “OK,
if
this is a consciousness guiding humanity why are these people so poor?
Couldn’t god show them a better way to eke out a living?” I loved the
answer: “God is equal part scientist and artist, not an accountant.”

Anyone who feels that ibo will help everyone: People must choose it for
themselves. They will find it. It’s OK to teach, not to know what
another’s
path is. Maybe even wait a year or two before telling anyone about how
great
it is. In Gabon, the Bwiti were the absolutely least preaching and trying
to
convert of any religion I’ve ever come accross. I grew up Buddhist which
is
pretty non-preachy. They will not even really talk to you about it unless
you are Bwiti. One of the universal rules is to not share the
initiation/visions with non-Bwiti. I think this is more for the
non-initiate
not to have expectations. That said one of the things I think is great
about
the list is people sharing there visions with others who have been there.
It’s helpful.

The other firm rule with the Bwiti is you share what you are seeing with
everyone in the temple while it’s happening. The guidance they provide
offers all the difference in the world. Everysingle person around you has
been there. It’s completely different than lying on a bed alone with a
bucket next to you. Seems like the religious way is the best and only way
to
get it legal in the US. UDV anyone? Any Bronfman heirs wanting to start a
Bwiti sect in the US?

Obviously we need to help everyone who needs help, regardless of whether
they want to do ibo or not. We are all different and what we need and what
works for us is different.

Rachael: Always felt the same about Bush. I’ve had a long standing fantasy
with the party-girl Bush twins and ibo and being able to say to the Pres
“May I call you dad?”

May we all hope that Dana learns from his arrest. Getting arrested helped
Martha’s stock triple. Getting arrested helped me as well, though I didn’t
think so at the time.

You guys who are just starting out can really help each other out get
through this tough time. It gets much easier with some time. Ask me,
Patrick
or Carla or any of the others.

Let’s all light a candle for Dr. Stan Glick who just may be getting
funding
for tests with 18-mc which I believe to have amazing potential in helping
addicts.

Peace out and sorry for rambling on and for sure repeating myself. It was
for the new guys.

Have a great weekend everyone,

Steve.

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From: MargoK2004@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 4, 2005 at 9:50:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/4/2005 1:53:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:
>All we need is 670mgr of Ibogaine for a start to a life changing experience.
>We are not looking for a miracle, just for some help. I am willing to do all
>the necessary work after that to reach my goals ie: a “normal” drug free
life.

I have no ability to help you except to ask how you determined a dose of
670mg of ibogaine.  Just curious?

Howard
Good question Howard………………………

From: Clean Water <clean_wtr@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Kahlil Gibran: Pleasure
Date: March 4, 2005 at 9:08:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pleasure is a freedom-song,

But it is not freedom.

It is the blossoming of your desires,

But it is not their fruit.

It is a depth calling unto a height,

But it is not the deep nor the high.

It is the caged taking wing,

But it is not space encompassed.

Ay, in very truth, pleasure is a freedom song.

And I fain would have you sing it with

fullness of heart; yet I would not have you

lose your hearts in the singing.

Some of your youth seek pleasure as if it

were all, and they are judged and rebuked.

I would not judge nor rebuke them.  I

would have them seek.

For they shall find pleasure, but not her

alone;

Seven are her sisters, and the least of them

is more beautiful than pleasure.

Have you not heard of the man who was

digging in the Earth for Roots and found a

treasure?

And some of your elders remember

pleasures with regret like wrongs

committed during drunkenness.

But regret is the beclouding of the mind

and not its chastisement.

They should remember their pleasures with

gratitude, as they would the harvest of a

summer.

Yet if it comforts them to regret, let them

be comforted.

And there are among you those who are

neither young to seek nor old to remember;

And in their fear of seeking and remembering

they shun all pleasures, lest they

neglect the spirit or offend against it.

But even in their foregoing is their

pleasure.

And thus they too find a treasure though

they dig for roots with quivering hands.

But tell me, who is he that can offend the

Spirit?

Shall the nightingale offend the stillness of

the night, or the firefly the stars?

And shall your flame or your smoke

burden the Wind?

Think you the Spirit is a still Pool which

you can trouble with a staff?

Oftentimes in denying yourself pleasure

you do but store the desire in the recesses

of your being.

Who knows but that which seems omitted

today, waits for tomorrow?

Even your body knows its heritage and

its rightful need and will not be deceived.

And your body is the harp of your soul,

And it is yours to bring forth sweet

music from it or confused sounds.

And now you ask in your heart, “How

shall we distinguish that wich is good in

pleasure from that which is not good?”

Go to your fields and your gardens, and

you shall learn that it is the pleasure of

the bee to gather honey of the flower,

But it is also the pleasure of the flower

to yield its honey to the bee.

For to the bee a flower is a Fountain of

Life,

And to the flower a bee is a messenger of

Love,

And to both, bee and flower, the giving

and receiving of pleasure is a need and

an ecstasy.

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen….
Date: March 4, 2005 at 8:41:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,
Been working hard, no energy for internet, and omg coupla hundred Ibogaine emails alone ,…
Is there much of a difference between providing and caring? I guess a provider may provide the ibogaine, but then what they do is care aint it?
Ok, Jasen the Caring.
Hehheh
Kiss hugs
Kirk
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Sunday, 20 February 2005 12:35 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Hey Captain,

Not a provider,..just a carer.

love,
Jasen.  Woooooo. 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Hey, how bout a free trip to NZ at some stage???
Serious! There’s some cheap fares about!
Wooooo Jasen the Provider!!! For South Pacific? Hehheh
Good on ya for offering
Kirk dah Kiwi
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Monday, 14 February 2005 5:03 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Dear Shell,

Go shelly baby,I will light a candle for you.
Make sure someone is with you,..hey.

If anyone in Queensland Australia needs a sitter
contact me, I will help and sit with you,be there
for you and nurse you.

Thankyou Sara, I will call soon.

Go Shelly baby!     Yeah!
love,
Jasen 😉
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 5:05 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] here I go again!

Hey list! Everythings set for my session on feb 19th!! !Ive never done it in a hotel setting, only a clinic & at an angels home. Any suggestions? Ive set up music,earplugs,face mask for room darkening.Also got my sound machine with lots of flowing water options,and essential oil aromatherapy too.Doing an adjoining room at my providers request.Kinda weird that Ive never met the sitter,but he’s experienced I hear &” real sweet”.Vibes in hotels can be real weird sometimes.You’d think at trip # four I’d be confident,guess my ego is trying to hold on to some control,HA! I’m wanting support from you folks,please. I have total confidence in this provider,the rest is up to the iboga gods.Got two weeks off work to recoup & integrate back slowly without the pressure of my work persona. I’ll keep yall posted ,love shell

–
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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] crystal meth query
Date: March 4, 2005 at 8:09:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: roos@r3v.org

To make a long story short: I have two friends (a man and a woman, who have been a couple for about 8 months) in the Bay Area (Stanford / Palo Alto to be exact) who have gotten into a fucked-up sideways situation centered around crystal meth.  The man in about 35 years old, pretty thoroughly addicted, and making really dumb decisions because of it…. the woman is about 21, loves him desperately, does meth with him, is able to avoid it when not around him but returns when around him.

They have no money, but have friends who would help them if they stopped wrapping their lips around the ol’ crystal pistol.  Which is mostly his issue, in that if he quit I believe she would too.

Questions:

1) I have not, as of yet, been able to find much literature or even chatter relating to ibogaine use for crystal meth.  I have a hunch it would be fabulous, since so much of crystal meth addiction revolves around a restricted reality tunnel and lack of physical empathy for others (unless high.)  Can you provide me with any links dealing with ibogaine and crystal meth specifically?

2) Being in the tweek world, my friends tend to change their minds quickly.  If I can convince them to try Ibogaine, the deal has to be closed ASAP.  What is the closest, cheapest, soonest place they could get ibogaine treatment?  Is the free clinic in Vancouver still open?  If so, what would be the risks in crossing the Canadian border (they could get a ride, but the man has some legal issues (posession conviction) and is possibly in trouble with his parole officer.)  Might there be some sort of underground clinic in San Fran, or anywhere on the West Coast, and if so how might I go about finding it and proving that I’m not some sort of narc?  I have friends in various San Fran circles who can vouch for my integrity (at least when it comes to not narc-ing on people!)

3) Would you recommend the ibogaine treatment for the woman, who is probably a less-than-fully-addicted person?  I’m saying is an ibogaine trip generally produce enough insights for someone who is not necessarily a “hopeless addict” but still has definite life issues that need to be dealt with (combine with some excessive substance use problems, and levels of denial that make verbal broaching of these subjects difficult.)

I am researching these issues myself but am wondering if your group can provide assistance.

Longer story, if you’re interested:

In various ways I helped get them into the situation, rode along for a couple of oft-fun yet thoroughly twisted months, then bugged out in order to gain perspective.  I retreated to my folks’ pad in Minnesota, where I am working on my own life, generally working on my own neuroses, addictions,  and compulsions,  but constantly nagged by guilt about my friends.

You see… for a few short weeks it really felt like we were building something.   We did many noble, beautiful, and virtuous things, and suffered genuine injustices, at the hands of everyone from cops to trust-a-farians to art fags to three hundred pound Tongans with tire irons… my greatest regret, besides helping to cause  the mess, is that Hunter S Thomson died before he could read about it.

Some of the energy was real, but the meth was too disorientating, the underworld too interesting, and the law too, uhh….   My center did not hold, and I had to abandon them and they currently seem helpless to deal with the meth situation: the man seems to be truly dependant on meth, and the woman enters that world whenever she is with him (but seems to have no problems avoiding meth when she is away) Currently her choices seem to be (i) give up on this guy, or, (ii) stay with him in his meth world, getting addicted with him.  She genuinely loves guy, and is sympathetic to his problems because he genuinely was victimized, fucked over, and scapegoated along the way.

He doesn’t have the energy to fix his life, she doesn’t have the energy to make him be responsible for fixing his life, she can’t stand the thought of leaving him, her mother can’t stop calling me, the stress and guilt from all this (and my part in enabling it)  is a huge drag on my life, and I can’t think of any way of getting him off meth other than pointing a gun at his head and locking him in a meth-free closet for six months — which is probably what some cop will do if he doesn’t ‘get his act together’ soon.  He’s been railroaded into high-cost, low-result rehab before (previous coke problems, not sure if he was genuinely addicted or not at that time) and absolutely refuses to do so again (as a borderline genius and psychonaut, he doesn’t exactly like the institutional mindset.)

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] audio
Date: March 4, 2005 at 7:12:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a few drugsounds including ibogaine(improved)
www.ekkijdfg.de

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 4, 2005 at 7:12:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy
I cant believe you guys pay 100 for n 80 here in toronto you can get them for 10can..anyway i agree with you that we need to help anyone and everyone yet i have to agree with Steve also in that maybe a longer time of sobireity is needed when preaching the benefits of ibogaine—not talking about the initial interuption action and thw wonderful enlightining visions—but the longer lasting effects—yet that said it doesnt stop me in talking to everyone i know MIGHT benefit from it–from junkies to spirtual seekers……
Peace
Matt Z

 

—-Original Message Follows—- From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2005 18:21:35 EST You guys are right. Now that you all have put things in such a clear perspective I think I’ll just shut up and learn from the greats here. I’ll keep my information to myself and let all those junkies paying a hundred bucks for an 80 just go on killing each other. Who cares about a bunch of poor country boys, Us Elite mother fuckers can sit back and let them all just cut out the bad DNA from mankind. Maybe in a year or two the ones that are left will have stronger survival skills and will make a stronger better junky. NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA…….. I’m gonna say this one more time. I PURPOSELY WRITE SO THAT PEOPLE WHO DON’T HAVE THEIR HEAD UP THEIR A…… UUU HEAD IN THE CLOUDS CAN AT LEAST UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE. NOT EVERYONE IS ABLE TO COMPREHEND THE SPIRITUAL ASPECTS OF ANYTHING WHEN TOTING AROUND AN ADDICTION THE SIZE OF FUCKIN’ TEXAS. HAS IT BEEN SO LONG THAT YOU CAN’T REMEMBER THAT? I tried to be cool and get along. Fuck that. I aint lettin’ anybody die without trying to do something. All you pussies can sit and watch. Randy

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Marcus <aktionman@phantom.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 4, 2005 at 6:41:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On 3/4/2005, “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Maybe make a part that’s how to do drugs with the least amount of harm, how
to get by and even benefit from them. Ummm… Preston? I can give tips. Dope
helped me plenty. I am glad I am off of it, though. Nearly 20 years was
plenty for me. My wife likes me better as well. There are some very caring
healers out there on this list who can make it better. Make it better then.
There has to be something better than a new title to put in there. Jeez. I
took advice from all over, half of it was written by people who haven’t
taken ibo. Post ideas you want added and I’ll save them and pass them on to
PK.

hey stever……
i think u got it in that paragraff……..” make it better”!

p,l,&u
marcus

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 4, 2005 at 6:21:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You guys are right. Now that you all have put things in such a clear perspective I think I’ll just shut up and learn from the greats here. I’ll keep my information to myself and let all those junkies paying a hundred bucks for an 80 just go on killing each other. Who cares about a bunch of poor country boys, Us Elite mother fuckers can sit back and let them all just cut out the bad DNA from mankind. Maybe in a year or two the ones that are left will have stronger survival skills and will make a stronger better junky. NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA…….. I’m gonna say this one more time. I PURPOSELY WRITE SO THAT PEOPLE WHO DON’T HAVE THEIR HEAD UP THEIR A…… UUU HEAD IN THE CLOUDS CAN AT LEAST UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON HERE. NOT EVERYONE IS ABLE TO COMPREHEND THE SPIRITUAL ASPECTS OF ANYTHING WHEN TOTING AROUND AN ADDICTION THE SIZE OF FUCKIN’ TEXAS. HAS IT BEEN SO LONG THAT YOU CAN’T REMEMBER THAT? I tried to be cool and get along. Fuck that. I aint lettin’ anybody die without trying to do something. All you pussies can sit and watch.         Randy

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN/shareware input needed
Date: March 4, 2005 at 5:17:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

took advice from all over, half of it was written by
people who haven’t
taken ibo. Post ideas you want added and I’ll save
them and pass them on

Thoughts on Improving your Life after Ibogaine
[Version: 0.3.2] / [03/03/05]

“different versions of the same answers appear.” –P.K.

Chatting with: L.Digital (edit by 4n0m4ly)

What did I find the 10,001st time?

“Myself”?

Well, the honest answer is: I don’t know.

Some people create a Patrick paradigm where
headspace spins ’round and ’round in little circles
and refuses to go away. No? You bet!

Others fill up their mind with all the negative
consequences of bangin’ dope; and then play pretend,
or hide and seek … “I never really liked heroin, it
was awful, degrading and terrible!”

I don’t do that.

I love heroin. Period.

Not past-tense.

I cop it, dump it into a cooker, and bang it up. Not
sticking a syringe in my arm has a 0% success rate.

I’m gonna bang dope I’ve been craving
Heroin utterly fucking rocks
Cravings from recovering for 35 years now.
I do 45 bags, turn it into walking on Water for 4
years
Except … the problem is … none of this is about
what anyone else sees or knows.
As much as I can do anything and
everything that people say is impossible
around narcotic analgesics, Drugs are just molecules.
Heroin … that’s magic.

I cop a bag of dope, bang up, enjoy it, and then get
back to my life.  So naturally I have a tremendous
amount of strength right now.

“You don’t know me. I don’t dump my shit all over
the
list. I am fucked up n’ shit, I have IssueS; my iSSUEs
have iSsUeS.”  says Dr.<Shrug>

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
A lot of shit, work, luck, and karma happens. As much
as
possible I get the fuck out of the way, and let
whatever process is unfolding, take place.
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

*****my problems no longer revolve around
doing — or not doing — drugZ.*****

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Yet Another Super-Exciting STUDY..

In that study was me.

What does it all mean?

It means: people make CHOICES. People are human
beings, NOT the summation of their symptomology <–
repeat as often as necessary.
It means: people make CHOICES. People are human
beings, NOT the summation of their symptomology <–
repeat as often as necessary.

There is a lot of Work and Struggle behind All.

We are all … complete fucking disasters.

`Tremendous resonance with my life’s experience and
belief systems.

“Great Spirits have always encountered violent
opposition from mediocre
minds.”
–Albert Einstein

“I have not failed; I have just found ten thousand
ways that won’t work.”
–Thomas Edison

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

I never caught an imaginary disease; I’m not sober one
day at a time;
I am not stuck in some
endless battle.

I went to war, and I won. What’re the fucking odds …

the world is rearranged.

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

Structure is going to disintegrate and go down the
toilet.  It’s a very time consuming process.

I simply do not know.

CONDUCT RESEARCH

I just can’t work up the self-hate anymore.

Onwards to BRanD NeW M1stak3s!

What do you do?

I communicate with Spirit(s).

As often as I can manage to do so; I go Home.

It’s the difference between intellectually
understanding that everything is just an
endlessly-interlocking series of illusions, and games
within games … and KNOWING it.

Everything IS no more, nor less, than a play of
consciousness.

The universe is not holding its breath anxiously.

Everything just IS.

“No, but wait, you obviously just don’t understand! I
want to be clean … I just, don’t wanna have to do
anything… Ever. At all…”

Bummer, it doesn’t work like that.

There are many different roads to follow. Some are
brightly-lit superhighways, others are offbeat paths
in the woods, and once inna while when you’ve left the
superhighway, wandered around through the woods,
gotten lost somewhere, and find yourself walking
around in circles in the middle of a swamp … a piece
from a passing UFO falls out of the sky, and slams
into your head <ClunK!> AhA! THAT’S IT!!!!!! Pret+y
col0rZ, l1ghtS, eyes, CyCloneS! Woooo HoooooO!!!

YeahYeahYeahYEAHYEAHYEAH!

Different (enter noun) have resonance for different
(enter noun), in different ways; but oddly enough, all
of them lead to (enter noun).

On [Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 12:12:23PM -0500],
[HSLotsof@aol.com] wrote:

| http://www.ibogaine.net
| http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/
| http://www.ibogatherapyhouse.org
| http://www.ibeginagain.org
| http://www.ibogainetreatment.com/
|
http://www.canna-lympics.org/projects/pages/addiction.htm

Laters,

Patrick

p.s., Please single me out and dump it into the list
as often as possible. I know my response-time to email
sucks, but I have 5 secretaries, and I can answer all
of it. There are only one of you, and many of me.

If you have a question in general, just ask it.
Someone with something worthwhile to say, always
arrives.

<Flipping through Manners 101 …>

How dare you say none of my friends have any couth you
fuckhead. Your problem is that an inordinately high
percentage of castrated males are British at birth,
and live their whole entire existence dealing with
chronically deficient testosterone levels.

Dave … say something sensitive and enlightened.

–Patrick

uhm…

/1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
If you “relapse/slip/use/stumble/get
loaded/fuckup/freakout/fall” -pick yourself back up
ASAP, dust yourself off and move on. Avoid getting
mired down in guilt, shame, remorse or pity. These are
fear-based stumbling blocks and will keep you down.

In staying clean, fear is the enemy.

Avoid letting other peoples/groups
opinions/dogmas/judgements weigh you down.

Remember, when you get clean, that monkey on your back
(or 900 pound gorilla, or whatever) doesn’t go away.
It climbs up into your head.

One of the keys to staying clean is not allowing that
monkey in your head to get louder than the music in
your heart.
11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
_.dave

–>.

A microscopic d0t expands in all directions.  The
particular expanding d0t next to you is tearing a hole
in space-time.  From the hole a Axolotl appears and in
a smooth
Barry White voice says:

Dogma is not required.
But if Dogma is your thing, then try:

http://capwiz.com/norml2/dbq/officials/agencies/?id=4185&dir=norml2&command=depresult&submit.x=7&submit.y=12

Select “Compose your own message”.
Cut and Paste your 4th Step/Life Story/Ibogaine
Report into the message.
The more people you send this to
the more bonus points you get.

http://capwiz.com/norml2/dbq/officials/directory/directory.dbq?command=congdir

Look up where you live and find your Congressional
Peeps.
THEY are your Sponsor, or more accurately, their
auto-respond software is your Sponsor.  So if you have
a bad day, contact them as often as you can, by phone
or in person if possible.

Congressional staff have a fetish for singing Ibogaine
telegrams.

then…
Create an Ibogaine product.
Place your Ibogaine product advertisement on forehead
then
Convince others that wearing your Ibogaine Product
advertisement on their forehead is Cool and all their
friends should do it too.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4161413.stm

then…

Donate your Body. (include 4th Step/Life
Story/Ibogaine Report with donation)
http://www.bodyworlds.co.uk/en/pages/koerperspende.asp

Of course you can bypass the previous steps and go
right to the most important step–>Forgive Yourself.

[* *]
(_)
Space_koko

Post Script :   If your dealer really cared, they
would deliver free dope to you without having to ask,
if they don’t do this, they don’t really Love you and
it’s time to move on or get a prescription that isn’t
perishable.

Take two minutes and meditate on where you want your
life to be in 2 years, five years, and ten years.

–Tom

Cherry pick what’s right for you. We are all
individuals:

Go camping or a take little vacation, get away from
your scene and away from the drugs.

Exercise and build endorphins back up in the brain.
Regain your health, Yoga, swimming, mountain climbing,
soccer, baseball, what ever!

Eat right, proper nutrition. All that money saved on
dope can go to good
food. Avoid sugar.

Avoid triggers and people taking drugs. Forget your
dealer’s number.

Have a plan in place if you feel the craving coming
on, go to a movie, hang with good friends, or go for a
walk in the park.

Go to a shopping mall, bookstore or a coffee house.
Get out.

One on one therapy to address personal issues, the
root of addiction.

Good sleep is important.

AA/NA, & SMART recovery help many. Try them out. The
SMART recovery book is very helpful. It’s good to have
the support of others who have been through the pain
of addiction.

Help other addicts.

Build a support network of friends and family, people
you can call for help.

Rebuild relations.

Sweating all that shit out of your system in a sauna
can help.

Do some fun things. Find a new hobby. Stamp
collecting, butterflies, or psychedellics.

Be glad your not a hatian refugee. And if you are a
hatian refugee there are always Iragi’s.

Live a life of love. At least as much as hate.

Quit smoking (is it too much to do all at once?)

Be busy, get a job, work.

Learn self-compassion.

If you must, smoke weed, hey it’s better than crack.
Remember stoners can be very dull.

Try and have a mind/body/spirit balance.

Masturbate instead of using drugs. Watch TV.

Make a better life for yourself.

Get a puppy.

Reconnect with lost friends. Rebuild relations.

Be good (as opposed to an asshole).

Do something nice for someone else. Build better
karma.

Have fun. Be skeptical Never do anything by the book
If you do relapse, Big fucking deal, don’t do it
again.

Go to Mexico and watch a bullfight. On acid.

Have a pot-luck dinner with friends. Eat escargo.

Get out of your head. Less ego.

Be more cool.

–Steven

I learned this acronym from an excellent doctor who
had worked at the Haight-Ashbury free clinic. Go
through these steps whenever you are:
[H]ungry
[A]ngry
[L]onely
[T]ired

(HALT = the precursors to wanting to use)
[T]alking (give someone a call)
[E]xercise
[M]editation or Massage
[P]rayer
[S]afe sex and showers

(TEMPS = the solutions)

Re: AA and NA, remember you don’t have to “do it all”
in spite of what they might say in meetings. The most
important aspect of 12 steps is the community or
fellowship. If you hear something that bugs you, try
to practice patience and just let it go. Two aphorisms
from 12 steps I’ve taken to heart are “take what you
need, leave the rest” and “look for the similarities,
not the differences.”

–Denise

I would add breathwork, holotropic or rebirthing. Its
a really powerful tool for releasing deep seated
emotional issues and conflicts. For those that don’t
do so well on talking therapy it is particularly
helpful.

Deep tissue bodywork is also an excellent way of
releasing those psychospiritual issues that have
become lodged in the physical realm. Something like
rolfing, hellerwork or feldenkrais for example.

The Bwiti recommend getting physical post iboga
experience. Indeed with a community an
anthropologist/ethnobotanist friend of mine stayed,
they strongly recommended sex straight after the
experience, indeed even offering him a woman. This
makes sense when you think about the metaphysical
impact of an experience such as ibogaine. One of the
best ways to ground it and integrate it into the body
is by getting physical afterwards. So this could be
done through breathwork, bodywork, sex, exercise,
movement therapy, dance etc.

But this is the direction I would go. I have written
more about this in the article I wrote that I think is
in the appendix of the manual. There is a paragraph on
the post ibogaine experience.

Hope this helps a little.

–Hattie

The tough part isn’t getting clean, it’s staying
clean.

–Jerry

Quitting smoking during “recovery”, is like most
things, it will be good for some (kiddies in
particular as a group) and not for others. Some people
get that one “white chip” and from what I have seen,
that is a minority, even with ibo most people deep in
addiction with multiple substances/behaviors do not
give up all at once. Absolutely quitting smoking is a
good thing, elevating, one less drug (addiction) and
the further you go, the further you are. So, yeah,
great thing to do and I like the idea surviving drug
addiction and not dying/having health issues from
smoking. Nicotine is the only “drug” that I sometimes
still get a craving for, it is far harder in many ways
than quitting drugs and not a priority. I think it
also helped me deal with taking pain meds, if I can
quit smoking cigarettes I can quit anything. There was
a particular moment after I stopped smoking, the
silence, for the first time in my adult life I wasn’t
stuffing something in my body (or someone elses) to
get rid of the discomfort of living in my skin.

So initially maybe or maybe not, IMO, for most, no
(cept the kiddies), it depends on the person.. Long
term sure quitting smoking going to help most people.

–Brett

“Addiction is such a big part of my life that I can’t
imagine life without it.”

I can’t imagine my life with it.

“I wonder what I would do if I was successful after
Ibogaine treatment.”

Be free to do something else.

“What would fill HUGE void that would be left if
addiction was removed from my life?!!”

You will have to figure that one out. What do you
like? Do you know what you like? The thing is to DO
STUFF. I can tell you things I do/did and in general a
basket of things to start doing. Addiction is body,
mind and spirit, to recover you gotta get rid of the
old/bad shit and do new shit, hopefully good stuff but
not always. You could have a nice sexual addiction, it
is quite popular once the drugs are gone, we still
have no self control, few coping skills. Anyway, that
is a fun addiction to do while. There is
work-a-holicism, once I went fishing… thing is to
eventually grow past that and become
rounder/broader.Yoga was one, now starting some
Pilates (good for injuries), Orchids, reloading and
shooting (a different form of playing with fire),
gardening, a bunch of spiritual, self-help and some
“recovery” stuff. I take on projects like painting the
house, car repair, built a new countertop for the
kitchen, laid tiles, I love to cook, learned how to
bake bread… DO STUFF, get out, learn how to have fun
without sticking something in your body to do so.

“Would I use from sheer boredom?”

If you sit there waiting for life to happen it is
EXTREMELY likely that is exactly what you will do
(“use”). You have to go out and “get a life” that does
not include the use of drugs as your primary
recreation (go smoke something if you need to…).
Even if you do use SO WHAT? That is the nature of
addiction, so long as you get that “I JUST USED, I AM
A WORTHLESS POS, I CAN’T , I RELAPSED, IT IS OVER, so
may as well be an addict…” out of your head, brush
yourself off and have continue on, maybe a lesson
learned. The thing with ibogaine is it changes the
rules a bit. Generally “as a rule” for the peope try
to recover, time and time again, once they go out,
they are “off to the races”, with ibogaine it isn’t
like that so much, less so with additional treatments.
If I did”relapse” a dose of ibo will toss me back
across the river if needed, I know that, Patrick knows
that, Dave knows that… In the worst relapse
imaginable, I will always know that my choice, one
dose and I can stop it at any time – 100% certain,
100% of the time, no doubts. Try imaging that power
over yourself instead of the multiple choices of “what
if” this, that or the other thing negative.

Ibogaine also does this born again thing, like
smelling the flowers for the first time, colors are
brighter the air is fresher, life is more interesting.
I don’t know if it will hit you all at once or as is
more typical, a couple tries. The “what if” awfulizing
is far from reality. “What if?” you were clean, what
if you were happy, what if you had all this extra time
and money to do other things, think of the
possibilities in a positive sense – you are getting
your life back vs life as you know it is going to end.
It is a rough thing to give up your friend, your
lover, your enemy, the one that is always there for
you, that which defines you…

“Would life be dull and uninteresting without
opiates?”

Absolutely NOT! Maybe not at first, maybe in fits and
starts, maybe after a couple doses… in time.

Are you saying you are leading an exciting life going
to the methadone clinic? I mean yeah, I guess drugs
were fun once, I guess you could say it is even
exciting (like when I wanted to get high and had to
find the money) but you don’t sound like you are
having a good time of it.

I just had an argument with my pain management doctor,
he wants me on more drugs (ie I cancelled a signed
script for 120 oxy’s and just told him no on another
120 I suppose). I want the clarity, the crispness, the
fullest sensations and experiences that life has to
offer. This means what use to swim around in my head
((sometimes kicking and screaming), does not any
longer. I just not interested, it is backwards from
the way it use to be.

“Fear of the unknown is a huge obstacle I would have
to overcome before I would even attempt Ibogaine
treatment.”

I understand, fear keeps people from many unknowns.
Eventually, you will let go, I can tell cause you
wouldn’t be here otherwise. It is just a matter of
sooner or later, it is up to you when Sometime when
the pain of the pain gets more than the fear of the
pain, then you take another step. Maybe it has to get
older for you, a few more years on the meth, maybe you
are not ready to, I don’t know. I know that I look
back and wish I did ibo 20-30 years ago. The nutshell
version is the Golden Chalis is being handed to you
and you are afraid to drink of it, yes I understand.

“Do those of you that have been treated with Ibogaine
understand what I am trying to say?”

Yes, been there, done that I think for most of us.

“Are these thoughts and questions legitimate?”

Yes and it part of the process for you to come to an
understanding, and of course get through it. At some
point you actually have to do something (that is the
trick). The fact that you SEE it, you are here, you
are asking the questions (questioning yourself) is
great, you are a lot further along than a lot of folks
(clean or not) – you see you need change, you see you
have fear, you are working through it – most don’t.

“Could I or would I have a chance to stay drug free?”

You have more than a chance, you have a choice. The
“choice” part is a lot clearer after some ibo, after
seeing the other side of the river./having most if not
all the physical addiction and compulsion lifted…
Know you can, cause you can. Ibogaine does change the
rules a bit, call it cheating, an easier softer way,
call it replacing one drug for another – call it what
you will I call it divine intervention by choice. All
you have to do is make that choice, you will when you
are ready.

–Callie and Brett

Two books I’ve found very useful for aftercare
suggestions:

Mindful Recovery: a spiritual path to healing from
addiction by Thomas Bien and Beverly Bien published by
Wiley books

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471442615.html

-for those with a spiritual outlook, a buddhist
approach

Recovery Options: The complete guide by Joseph
Volpicelli MD, PH.D and Maia Slavavitz also published
by Wiley books

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-047134575X.html

-it even includes a small chapter on Ibo, though it
doesn’t say much, perhaps a better description could
be sent to the authors?

more later…cheers.

–Sandra

Got your list of helpful hints. My
suggestions/questions which are really extensions of
your own thoughts are:

As far as staying away from “using” friends, this is
vital. You have to leave the old way of life
completely and create a new “family”. Not doing that
just puts you into a slippery situation that makes it
too easy to go back to the old way of doing things. As
you suggest, AA/NA meetings are good for working one’s
way through the often tortuous beginnings of sober
life. They can also offer new sober friends and new
sober connections. As an addendum to leaving old
friends behind — get rid of ANYTHING that’s in your
house that has any specific connections or
connotations with the “old” life. For instance, an
alcoholic should get rid of the glasses used when he
or she drank. Obviously works go, pipes go, bongs that
might have a place in one’s heart (“I really just like
the way it looks”) go. The chair one used to slip into
when using goes. Whatever it takes.

Therapy is a great idea — got to work through the
stuff that helped get you into this mess in the first
place. My caution: make sure you find a therapist who
is fully conversant with addiction. It won’t help that
much talking to someone who hasn’t got a clue.

Quitting smoking on top of quitting drugs is a bad
idea! At least in the beginning. The plate is already
full to overflowing and trying to take on yet another
addiction is just setting yourself up for failure.
Slipping back into one often triggers a slide
backwards with the other.

As to exercise, I might add something terrifically
strenuous — chopping wood, lifting weights, dueling
with a heavy bag. Not only takes your mind off things
but it can also help channel the frustration and anger
that can accompany new sobriety.

Learn about addiction — the nuances, the reason the
brain finds its answers in drugs or alcohol. It can
help with the self awareness that can lead to the self
forgiveness you spoke of that is so necessary to
success.

Remember that slips are often an almost inevitable
occurrence before success. This is not to say that the
addict should say “Oh, I have permission to use
because I am expected to fall off the wagon.” My point
is that close to 3/4 of all addicts (no matter what
the substance) fail the first time around and the
self-loathing that can accompany that can get in the
way of trying again. This is where a sponsor from
AA/NA or a person thoroughly familiar with addiction
can intercept the one struggling and give
encouragement and explanations for what’s going on and
the help to regain focus to try again.

Stay away from slippery places. Not only drop the old
friends, drop any place even remotely close to where
the dealer might live; where the old friends live;
where one might have gone to hang when high. That goes
too. New apartment needed? Do that too.

Simply doing a “geographic” and moving to a new
town/state won’t do it. The problems follow you there
too. If a move is necessary, fine. But search out the
meetings available there. Find a new sponsor. find a
new, non-using group of friends there. A new
therapist. You can’t do it without the support network
being rebuilt.

If I think of anything else, I’ll get in touch. Hope
all is well and that the newly free friends find you
there as a resource. If they happen to run into a
snag, get in touch again with anyone who might have a
fresh perspective but I think you are on the right
track and they are terribly lucky to have you in their
lives.

–Lisa

Readings

If for an instant God were to forget that I am a rag
doll and gifted me with a piece of life, possibly I
wouldn’t say all that I think, but rather I would
think of all that I say. I would value things, not for
their worth but for what they mean. I would sleep
little, dream more, understanding that for each minute
we close our eyes we lose sixty seconds of light.

I would walk when others hold back, I would wake when
others sleep. I would listen when others talk, and how
I would enjoy a good chocolate ice cream! If God were
to give me a piece of life, I would dress simply,
throw myself face first into the sun, baring not only
my body but my soul. My God if I had a heart, I would
write my hate on ice, and wait for the sun to show.
Over the stars I would paint with a Van Gogh dream a
Benedetti poem and a Serrat song would be the serenade
I’d offer to the moon. With my tears I would water
roses, to feel the pain of their thorns, and the red
kiss of their petals

.

My god, if I had a piece of life

I wouldn’t let a
single day pass without telling the people I love that
I love them. I would convince each woman and each man
that they are my favorites, and I would live in love
with love. I would show men how very wrong they are to
think that they cease to be in love when they grow
old, not knowing that they grow old when they cease to
be in love! To a child I shall give wings, but I shall
let him learn to fly on his own. I would teach the old
that death does not come with old age, but with
forgetting. So much have I learned from you, oh men
..

I have learned that everyone wants to live on the peak
of the mountain, without knowing that the real
happiness is in how it is scaled. I have learned that
when a newborn child squeezes for the first time with
his tiny fist his fathers finger, he has him trapped
forever. I have learned that a man has a right to look
down on another only when he has to help the other get
to his feet. From you I have learned so many things,
but in truth they won’t be of much use, for when I
keep them in this suitcase, unhappily shall I be
dying.

–Gabriel Garcia Marquez

Must I Wait All My Life; or, The Misery Song
(Uncouth-and-not Anthem of the Particular and General
Unconscious)
Must I wait all my life for a certain thing to happen?
Must I spend all my days just in dozin’, just in
nappin’?
Isn’t there to be a fire? Won’t some color come?
Am I blind? have I no luck? am I just plain dumb?
Must I wait all my life for a certain person’s comin’?
Will I die, my life gone, and still a love tune
hummin’?
Is my life to be empty? Won’t some real love come in
it?
Is my life just to be one grey minute after minute?
God, I could scream. God, I could tear myself to
pieces-
I’m the boredest human of the whole damn human
species.
I could bite, I could cry, I am hell tired of waitin’-
When the Lord made me he did some bum creatin’.
I listen for a sound but all I do is listen;
What other people get it always seems I’m missin’.
I’m in a deep unhappy ditch, I’m as miserable as sin.
Must I wait all my life for life just to begin?

.
I do narcotic analgesics and use them as directed
<Giggle> …

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 4, 2005 at 5:05:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m saying I like it, but one thing. You know the name “Keeping Clean” is a little obnoxious and disrespectful to people who aren’t clean. I love this whole place because it’s not judgmental. The contents of Keeping Clean aren’t judgmental either, but the title of that whole section on Mindvox and the title of the Keeping Clean article does dis people aren’t clean.

I’m mentioning it because I don’t feel disrespect from any part of what’s here, but I think that title disrespects people who are still using drugs.

Gosh Cheryl, I’m sorry. No disrespect was intended to anyone with the title. It was meant to help people who want to stay clean. I have absolutely no problem with anyone who wants to do drugs. God bless. Get Patrick to change it, I don’t care. I used it for a very silly reason. I made a short film 17 years ago titled “Keeping Clean.” Sounded catchy and was sentimental on my part. I didn’t like the name “After Ibogaine” which was also considered. What? We only help people who have taken ibo? That’s not nice. What would you like it called?

Maybe make a part that’s how to do drugs with the least amount of harm, how to get by and even benefit from them. Ummm… Preston? I can give tips. Dope helped me plenty. I am glad I am off of it, though. Nearly 20 years was plenty for me. My wife likes me better as well. There are some very caring healers out there on this list who can make it better. Make it better then. There has to be something better than a new title to put in there. Jeez. I took advice from all over, half of it was written by people who haven’t taken ibo. Post ideas you want added and I’ll save them and pass them on to PK.

Randy, the Bwiti know addiction, there is heroin there. They know what they are doing in using the root as medicine. Addiction is just one small part of it. It’s sacred dude! Let me know if SMART helps you at all. You are probably in good hands with NA, seems good for you. You may learn a few tools. Like anything it’s not for everyone.

Because I need a hobby: Some thoughts to share from a conversation with Matt off site, he asked a bunch of questions.

No, I don’t think ibo is for everyone. Think about it this way. Bwiti is a religion. Is Christianity for everyone? Muslim, Hindu, Sufi, Buddhist, Scientology for everyone?

My other sense is that providers/people would benefit if the traditional knowledge of ibo were incorporated into treatment here. It would be silly to duplicate the ceremony exactly. These traditions should be incorporated in a home grown way.  I think it would be great if one of the providers learned to be a Nganga in Gabon, or if people got together and brought a Nganga over here. I have some great contacts if anyone needs them. Whatever you do, do not believe Daniel Pinchbeck’s account. He made many mistakes and I say that as a friend.

Trust me: The Bwiti Know What The Fuck They Are Doing With The Root. When to sit, drink, etc… Why not learn from them?

Zealousness for anything can be scary to me. A little more with iboga when I realize that we don’t really know the root and it is incredibly powerful, mysterious and sacred. And for some very dangerous. One thing the Bwiti told me in a rather stern voice during the initiation was “God did not make iboga for a bunch of rich junkies in the West to kick!”. It’s part of it, it’s a trick to get us over there. Another question I had for the Bwiti was “OK, if this is a consciousness guiding humanity why are these people so poor? Couldn’t god show them a better way to eke out a living?” I loved the answer: “God is equal part scientist and artist, not an accountant.”

Anyone who feels that ibo will help everyone: People must choose it for themselves. They will find it. It’s OK to teach, not to know what another’s path is. Maybe even wait a year or two before telling anyone about how great it is. In Gabon, the Bwiti were the absolutely least preaching and trying to convert of any religion I’ve ever come accross. I grew up Buddhist which is pretty non-preachy. They will not even really talk to you about it unless you are Bwiti. One of the universal rules is to not share the initiation/visions with non-Bwiti. I think this is more for the non-initiate not to have expectations. That said one of the things I think is great about the list is people sharing there visions with others who have been there. It’s helpful.

The other firm rule with the Bwiti is you share what you are seeing with everyone in the temple while it’s happening. The guidance they provide offers all the difference in the world. Everysingle person around you has been there. It’s completely different than lying on a bed alone with a bucket next to you. Seems like the religious way is the best and only way to get it legal in the US. UDV anyone? Any Bronfman heirs wanting to start a Bwiti sect in the US?

Obviously we need to help everyone who needs help, regardless of whether they want to do ibo or not. We are all different and what we need and what works for us is different.

Rachael: Always felt the same about Bush. I’ve had a long standing fantasy with the party-girl Bush twins and ibo and being able to say to the Pres “May I call you dad?”

May we all hope that Dana learns from his arrest. Getting arrested helped Martha’s stock triple. Getting arrested helped me as well, though I didn’t think so at the time.

You guys who are just starting out can really help each other out get through this tough time. It gets much easier with some time. Ask me, Patrick or Carla or any of the others.

Let’s all light a candle for Dr. Stan Glick who just may be getting funding for tests with 18-mc which I believe to have amazing potential in helping addicts.

Peace out and sorry for rambling on and for sure repeating myself. It was for the new guys.

Have a great weekend everyone,

Steve.

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 4, 2005 at 5:02:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com> wrote:

—> Whoever wrote the four steps to better karma,
best
—> advice I’ve read in a
—> long time.

For Real.

sometimes after. It’s more of a cleaning in a river
and being washed (the
tribe I was with at least) with some amazing plants

“Acting in mysterious ways” says god in a
press conference after the
tsunami.

Just for sec consider that we may never know God, as
my dog will never
really know what I know of the world or the beauty
of Bethoven.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 4, 2005 at 4:53:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s Hot.
-sk
— Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
I’m near Nottingham in the East-Midlands ina town
called Lincoln.  Weird but
recently I’ve been making sure I do alot of
medititation, yoga, walking, and
when sex is unavailable 😉 masterbating!  It’s all
good.  I try to keep an
objective perspective on my life.  I will check out
the staying clean bit
though I’ve a tonne of uni work to do and people to
look after.  A close
friend died last night-he’s all I can think of right
now.  I still can’t
believe it true.

Thnks everyone for your continued support,
Hannah xxx
—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hey Hannah,

Give yourself a hug. Julie and Jim et al. are
giving you love, as am I.
You
know yourself, look into yourself and figure out
what you need.
Meditating,
yoga, masturbating, a walk in the park, whatever,
get out of your head to
look into yourself. My 2 cents: I don’t know about
the drugs you are on,
but
yam yam is yam yam. Only you can do it and if you
want it, it’s not that
hard. We are a strong species, and women in
particular are tough. Ever
heard
of childbirth? My added suggestions: get out of
your head: exercise,
movie,
sex, something… fun. If there is a loved one or
family you can go clean
up
at, find a couch, be honest ask for help. Find a
way that works and is
honest for you. Find a buddy, say Julie. You know
something? Most often if
you ask for help, people will help. Have some joy.
Go on line and check
out
this on mind-vox, see what helps and then if
you’ve cleaned up add your
own
thoughts. It was ment to be an evoling document,
Julie, Jim, Carla,
others,
add your wisdom. Carla, let Patrick finish his
book. He’ll be just as cute
when it’s finished.

Hanna, find a path of goodness and joy… why not?
The best lessons of AA
are loss of ego and service to others. Sounds like
you are in England no?

Take care,
Steve.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:04:57 -0800 (PST)

Hi Hanna,

I really hate to say it but I believe you got it
pretty bad.  You dealer
played you with the freebies, of course who could
resist.  He spends $100
or less then gets you hooked – to me that is
sick.

I am not sure where you live but if you call you
county mental health
clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of
some kind, it should not
take
two years.  It reminds me one time I called some
detox place and they
said
it would be 8 months to a year and I said never
mind I’ll either be dead
or
in jail by then.

You relasped, it happened to us all one time or
another, everyone on this
forum has relasped so there really is no reason
to put all those quarters
in the ass-kicking machine.  We have all been
there.  I would say try
calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation
Army and Suicide Prevention
Center, or United Way.  Being on disability I
sometimes need help and I
call the phone numbers and some are disconnected,
others you leave a
message and they never call back, others have a
waiting list, etc.  Also,
call some churches maybe a good minister or
priest could help, you may be
surprised.  Some have consoled before and I know
some who used to go to
jails and prisons.  After all you really have
nothing to lose.  Remember
we
are body, mind and spirit and we try and have
them all working in
harmony.
Yes, much eaiser said then done.  I really
believe if you call enough
places you will find someone.  Damn, I sound like
a salesman.  Don’t stop
trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it
gives you an incentive, they call it hitting
rock bottom.  I am not a
lover of NA but some of the things they say are
true, you must change
your
friends and places you go.  I am sure you have
heard that before too.  I
wish there was more I could do, but if you call
the places I mentioned
and
the county health center you may have a better
chance of finding someone
who can help.  Find an hour, relax, get out the
phone book and make as
many
calls as it takes.  If they can not help you ask
them if they know
anyplace
that can before you hang up.

The bad part about it is you got to take the
drugs two weeks or longer
before they help, then if you don’t like them it
is back to another pill.
As I said before they did not help me and made
things worse.  I am not
depressed because of a lack of serintonin or
other brain chemicals.  Of
course that does not mean the drugs will not help
you.  Just be aware of
your thoughts and if you think of suicide or
other bad thoughts call
someone, even if it is the fire department which
is the same as the cops.
But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be
sure you house is clean
and
don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.”
Say hell yes I mind, I
have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with
you?  Those SSRI drugs
can be very powerful and when you start taking
them the risk of suicide
goes up.

I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up
change you phone number
and avoid your dealer.  Feel free to write to me
if you want off line
jimhadey3@yahoo.com .  Sometimes just having a
friend to talk to can
help.
Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is
important and a well
balanced diet can not be beat.  I know you don’t
feel like eating
sometimes
but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar
and thus your moods and
emotions.  Try the calls and let me know what
happens.

Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy
coming you way:) ,

– JIM

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just
hearing kind words from

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] …Bait that ‘kick Habit’ man Solar Flare
Date: March 4, 2005 at 4:38:55 PM EST
To: 4n0m4ly@fda.gov, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com


Kick That Habit Man
[
http://www.xenutv.com/cults/mindcontrol.htm
can’t rape the willing.

-S.k0k0

&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;)
&#1605;&#1581;&#1576;&#1607;,
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&#24215;&#21729;, &#1608;&#1604;&#1608;&#1593;,
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&#1605;&#1608;&#1590;&#1608;&#1593;&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;)
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&#1607;&#1584;&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;&#967;&#940;&#959;&#962;,
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&#945;&#960;&#959;&#948;&#953;&#961;&#947;&#940;&#957;&#969;&#21806;&#963;&#951;)&#1075;&#1080;&#1073;&#1082;&#1080;&#1081;
&#1096;&#1085;&#1091;&#1088;
&#1601;&#1608;&#1590;&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;&#1093;&#1072;&#1086;&#21209;&#1089;)
&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;
&#8238;&#1492;&#1513;&#1508;&#1497;&#1506;,
&#1492;&#1513;&#1514;&#1502;&#1513;
&#1489;&#1502;&#1497;&#1493;&#26354;&#1502;&#1504;&#1493;&#1514;
&#1489;(&#1499;&#1500;&#1497;,
&#1495;&#1493;&#1502;&#1512;rekken ),
&#1504;&#1497;&#1510;&#1500;/&#1492;&#1508;&#1506;&#1497;&#1500;/&#1492;&#1513;&#1514;&#1502;&#1513;
&#1500;&#1510;&#1512;&#1499;&#1497;&#1493;,
&#1494;&#1497;&#1497;&#1507;,
&#1489;&#1491;&#26989;&#1511; (&#1495;&#1500;)fléchir
&#1571;&#1604;&#1576;&#1575;&#1574;&#1601;&#1608;&#1590;,
&#1610;&#1604;&#1575;&#1591;&#22823;&#28151;&#959;&#20081;,
&#28961;&#24207;&#1601;, &#1610;&#1585;&#1576;&#1578;
&#1571;&#1604;&#1582;,
&#1610;&#1608;&#1604;&#1593;,&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;)
&#1601;&#1608;&#1590; &#1610;&#1588;&#1594;&#1601;
(&#1593;&#1583;&#1583;)&#1093;&#1072;&#1086;&#1089;
&#1589;&#1601;&#8207;(&#1575;&#1604;&#1575;&#1587;&#1605;&#8238;&#1514;&#1493;&#31209;&#1492;&#1493;
&#1493;&#1489;&#1493;&#1492;)
&#1601;&#1608;&#1590;&#1585;,&#25512;&#21729;,
&#21729;, &#30007;&#24215;&#21729;,
&#30007;&#36008;&#21729; &#1604;&#1575;
&#1588;&#1609;&#1569;

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 4, 2005 at 3:23:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t read this before right now. It’s really good. Thanks guys.

All of Mindvox is the weird combination of being crazy and dark and not full of shit and real at the same time, then all these positive thoughts and articles and art are in the middle of the insanity.

I’m saying I like it, but one thing. You know the name “Keeping Clean” is a little obnoxious and disrespectful to people who aren’t clean. I love this whole place because it’s not judgmental. The contents of Keeping Clean aren’t judgmental either, but the title of that whole section on Mindvox and the title of the Keeping Clean article does dis people aren’t clean.

I’m mentioning it because I don’t feel disrespect from any part of what’s here, but I think that title disrespects people who are still using drugs.

— On Thu 03/03, Steven Anker < stevenanker@hotmail.com > wrote:
From: Steven Anker [mailto: stevenanker@hotmail.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:56:07 -0800
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN

<br>><br>> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean/KeepingClean.html<br>><br>> Steven!  You’ve woken up again!  Duz this mean it will soon contain  <br>> EVEN MORE timeless wisdom and Inspirational ThotZ?<br>><br>> Just checking.<br>><br>> Patrick<br><br>Not from me, but there has to be someone out there who has learned a  <br>thing or two and would like to share. The idea was that it keeps  <br>getting improved, unlike the big book which kind of sits like a sacred  <br>text. Here’s one: If pulled over by cops and asked “whatcha eating?”  <br>Answer: “Some cake my saintly mother baked.”<br><br>Is there anyone out there who feels like making a little “So, you want  <br>to take ibo” bit that you could put on your site? I’ll write a blurb if  <br>you get your knees dirty Patrick.<br><br>Randy, glad it’s helped a bit. You might want to check SMART recovery  <br>on-line www.smartrecovery.org/ it might give you a few helpful ideas,  <br>there may even be a meeting close by. It’s great that you are doing  <br>work to keep the dark master at bay. Patrick once wrote that the basis  <br>of AA is very old: loss of ego and service to others and that is good.  <br>You are doing your part! Congrats.<br><br>Matt, check out both the keeping clean and the smart stuff. Eat right,  <br>excercise, avoid triggers, find some activities other than smack – sex  <br>is a good one (alone or with others) – and you should be fine. The more  <br>proactive you are about it, the better. Remember that cravings are like  <br>waves, they come, they go. If you feel it coming on, do something to  <br>keep busy until it goes away. Going by the coping part of town for old  <br>memories is a bad activity though.<br><br>Hannah, you are in my thoughts and whatever vauge and confused version  <br>of prayer I do. I really hope you come through this.<br><br>Ekki, my mom is German and “Ekki” was a nickname for me. Congrats on 12  <br>weeks, don’t get lazy. It’s so easy to think “Well just one taste won’t  <br>hurt anyone. I’m doing so well… just one go for old times sake…”  <br>For me at least, that one taste never stayed at one.<br><br>Francis, something to think about addiction. As a species we are  <br>hard-wired for it. We are all hard-wired to be addicted to sex, food,  <br>and companionship. That helps humans spread like rats and weeds. It’s  <br>just that some of us are addicted to some other things and have trouble  <br>stopping. It’s not ‘bad.'<br><br>Steve.<br><br><br><br><br>

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 4, 2005 at 3:21:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sure Randy ….. knock yourself out.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Todd, I hope you don’t mind but I want to send your
post about your Ibogaine
experience to a friend of mine who directs a
methadone clinic in the South.
I’m compiling data and accounts of treatment for
him. This guy is an exception
to most people in a position of authority at the
clinics in the US. He wants
what is best for the addict. After all, that’s what
methadone was supposed to be
about in the first place. Life Rocks, turn it up.
Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 4, 2005 at 2:49:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/3/2005 1:09:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:
Randy, glad it’s helped a bit. You might want to check SMART recovery
on-line www.smartrecovery.org/ it might give you a few helpful ideas, there
may even be a meeting close by. It’s great that you are doing work to keep
the dark master at bay. Patrick once wrote that the basis of AA is very old:
loss of ego and service to others and that is good. You are doing your part!
Congrats
Steve,      AA is an old way of looking at things, that’s very true. Some of it applies to this day, and it was written in the 30’s. Some of it doesn’t. I take what I need and let the rest roll on by. We’ve evolved some since it was written. We have Ibogaine now, and that changes a lot of things. I feel the same way about the Bwiti, I respect them for what they are doing and for what they gave us,(I want to check them out), but they ain’t making little piles of Heroin out of big piles of opium. We’ve evolved, we need Ibogaine Hcl, and we need to know how to use it. Thanx for the link to smart recovery. I’ll check it out.                 Randy

From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!
Date: March 4, 2005 at 2:15:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe Dana has written “a letter from the Dine jail” and it will come
out in a best-selling book from a major publishing house to energize
the new generation of People resisting the cage.  Heck, he can join
forces with that Marthat Stewart maven, who seems to have a new fire
in her belly for carceral reform, to civil righteousize our current
popular dilemma of order vs “freedom.”

Forgive my optimism – I’m that utopian kind who thinks maybe the Bush’
family own brushes with overpartying, I mean addiciton, could mean
good things for the serious scientific search for tangible allies
(eboga) in that healing trajectory.   lovingly, rachel

NEW MEXICO Dana Beal, a founding member of
the 1960’s group the Youth International Party, or Yippies, has been
arrested in Tohatchi, N.M., on the Navajo Indian reservation. The
Navajo police said Mr. Beal and a companion were stopped Friday for
speeding and that Mr. Beal, a passenger, was observed eating what Mr.
Beal said was marijuana. A Manhattan resident and organizer of
pro-marijuana marches, Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence. He was released Saturday after pleading not guilty and
posting a $5,000 cash bond.Joseph Kolb (NYT)

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 4, 2005 at 1:59:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Michelle, sorry to hear of your losses, and Hannah, yours too.

It’s these constant punctuatons of death that contribute to my sense
that more urgency might be exerted in making this curative  readily
available to those in need.

Is that green screen you’re being filmed against, Preston, in the
life-sustaining shade of the compassionate, overflowing with love
Heart chakra?

Wondering about time and the linear experiences of birth-life-death in flushing,
rachel

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From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes
Date: March 4, 2005 at 12:34:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go Preston! I back you 100%!
Susan  :o))

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 7:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes

Susan wrote >Thanks for sharing your day.Keep up the good work!<

Thanks Susan,
Don’t know how long you’ve been here, but just to say, I decided a
long
time ago that whether I’m even totally “clean” or never clean at all, I
will
always promote the idea that junkies and all other legal and illegal drug
users NEVER deserve out descrimination. If they are committing real
violent
crimes to support their habit they should be prosecuted FOR THE VIOLENCE
and
offered help with the drug if they do desire- but otherwise to just think
of
us drug users as inherently bad, lazy and uninspired is so wrong and evil
it’s my life’s work to prove that crap wrong.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes

Hey Preston,
I am fairly new here but I really enjoy reading your stories and now you
are
“acting”; I think you will do just great!
Thanks for sharing your day.Keep up the good work!
Susan

“Somewhere the Sky touches the Earth, and the name of that place is the
End.” – African saying.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:53 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes

Hi all,
So apparently there are going to be 600,000 junkie Prestons on the
screen in this tv show, all of us asking “hey buddy, can you help me
out?”
LOL, boy oh boy did they mess me up, turned me into the dirtiest
scummiest
lookin’ junkie they possibly could, a 1970 NY junkie apparently, as the
show
is about the cops who busted the French Connection, waaaay back in,
let’s
see, ummm, 1970. It actually looks very interesting, and not only
’cause
I’m
on it. They spent all day shooting me and the cop I’m hitting up for
money
from all sorts of angles and positions, as he apparently goes into this
dream sequence of sorts, and starts thinking about how many junkies 5
pounds
of pure heroin could get high, which is how much apparently he and his
partner are trying to find and confiscate. So they put me here and
there
and
on this roof edge (balancing on the ice and snow freakin’ climbing
around
the sides of this building and parking garage), and in front of a green
screen, because they’re gonna first double my image, then quadruple,
then
make it ten, then 600, then thousands, until it reaches an apparent
600,000
junkies, all being ME- LOL!

After hair and make up, I stolled over to Battery Park to visit craft
services, the table where they put all the snacks and coffee for the
actors
and crew, and immediately the woman guarding craft services accosted
me:
“Can I help you” said her voice and her eyes added “you scumbag junkie
you.”
And the set’s NYPD lackies approached and began hovering around behind
me
making sure everything was ok, ready to step in at a moment’s notice to
arrest the scummy dirty junkie raiding the craft services table. I only
stayed in charactor for a second or two, then grinned and let them and
the
girl in on the “secret.” But it felt really weird walking around down
town
like that, with a cold sore on my lip and other bloody spots all over
my
face and dirty and filthy- all make up of course- but even I was having
trouble serving myself food during lunch, because my hands looked so
filthy,
but it was only makeup. But it was so like real-life of not so long
ago,
I
almost couldn’t stand it, not because it was uncomfortable but more
because
I simply am having trouble believing I’m getting paid (and flown out to
LA
sometime this month for a few more days of shooting- film shooting, not
shooting shooting for those still thinking in that mode) to pretend to
be
a
former version of…me!
Life is just so weird sometimes.
Ok all, sorry to take a few minutes of your day to tell you about
my
day
yesterday, but I wanted to share, and again remind us all that even
junkies
are good for something. Right Nick?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Michelle” <mpalmer7@austin.rr.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 4, 2005 at 10:44:17 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: NewCathy40@aol.com [mailto:NewCathy40@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 9:58 PM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help

Hello,

I am a fourty year old woman and I have been dealing with a serious
addiction
to pain medications for 15 years. I have gone through several detox
programs
which were somewhat helpful but didn’t stop my addictions. I have had
several
relapses and just cannot kick the habit. I just don’t know how much
longer
I can
take it. I have lost a 13 year old daughter in a car accident at a
time I
was
clean. It took three months of fighting before I gave up and relapsed.
Since then
my struggle with drugs has been my major focus in life. I cannot hold
a
job
anymore, I don’t really have a life.

<snip>
[mp]
Cathy,

I’m 41, and I was using hydrocodone (10/325) & soma, every 1.5-2 hours
for the last 3 years of this 9 year run. I’m hanging out here because I
have issues with spirituality, so I’m keeping my options open in case I
fuck up again.

I started WD 31 days ago. By day 5 I was 15 pounds lighter, and bloody
miserable. Pain killers can be tough. It didn’t take me long to realize
I couldn’t do this shit alone. Last April my husband OD’d on methadone,
and two weeks ago my step-dad died of Cancer. Everybody else in my
family is already dead except my girls, but you can’t talk to kids about
wishing you could go play in traffic.

Rehab has never done a thing for me. I’m way too accomplished at BS’ing
medical personnel. I ace psych evaluations when I’m suicidal.

I tried the AA thing once before, but I couldn’t do it then. This time I
decided I would just drag my ass to meetings whether I wanted to or not.
I went to NA this time. For the last 2 weeks I’ve gone and listened.
Talking is pretty impossible with the panic running, but I sat in a
corner and listened.

3 days ago, I realized I didn’t think my god was quite as big an asshole
as I thought. It’s still touch and go, and grief just makes it fucking
hard, but a lot of loud music, other people who have survived being
clean, and reminding myself that it’s been 28 years since I’ve been this
awake – so, yeah, it’s gonna be really uncomfortable – has helped.

I guess what I’m saying is there might be something that would help that
you thought you’ve tried, but maybe didn’t give a chance because it hurt
too much. It doesn’t matter what it is, as long as it doesn’t kill you.
It is especially hard to give something a chance when being clean just
makes you want to die. But, to borrow a very tired cliché, this too
shall pass.

Peace,
Michelle

p.s.
even crushing despair has a limited shelf-life.

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 4, 2005 at 8:45:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cathy,

Be careful and as Rachael said it’s no magic bullet. Excellent advice Rachael. Howard has good information on his site ibogaine.org which can help you. There are several providers around and look into that a bit more before thinking it is not a possibility. They want to help and will do so. We can get you a list if you need it. If there is anyway to get the money, do so. Some places are cheaper than others, figure in your airfare costs and make sure it is the impossibility you think it is. How much does your drug use cost now? You are better off doing it with people who have done it and people who are experienced with it. I’ve noticed that people who pay for it tend to do better.

I’ve heard of treatments in America but for obvious reasons it is underground so I can’t help you there, I know nothing about it. It’s not sold on the street as you have figured out. Do you have friends in countries where it is legal who could order it and send it on? Maybe get a mailbox in Canada and have it forwarded. In the eyes of the law, they will not be happy with you if they catch on.

How else have you tried to quit? Why do you think this will work better than other methods? Don’t think this is the only thing that can help you. What if you can’t get any? What if it doesn’t work in a lasting way? What if your visions are a bloody mess or none at all? That shouldn’t mean you are subjected to a life of addiction and misery. Many people your age simply stop and grow out of it, have faith in your own power. You are not as weak and powerless as some drug experts will tell you. Look up the work of Stanton Peele or SMART recovery if you are looking for an alternative to AA. Troll around the mind-vox site and there will be some tips that help everyone, not just ibo-heads.

We are rooting for you,
Steve.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes
Date: March 4, 2005 at 7:20:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Susan wrote >Thanks for sharing your day.Keep up the good work!<

Thanks Susan,
Don’t know how long you’ve been here, but just to say, I decided a long time ago that whether I’m even totally “clean” or never clean at all, I will always promote the idea that junkies and all other legal and illegal drug users NEVER deserve out descrimination. If they are committing real violent crimes to support their habit they should be prosecuted FOR THE VIOLENCE and offered help with the drug if they do desire- but otherwise to just think of us drug users as inherently bad, lazy and uninspired is so wrong and evil it’s my life’s work to prove that crap wrong.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes

Hey Preston,
I am fairly new here but I really enjoy reading your stories and now you are
“acting”; I think you will do just great!
Thanks for sharing your day.Keep up the good work!
Susan

“Somewhere the Sky touches the Earth, and the name of that place is the
End.” – African saying.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:53 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes

Hi all,
So apparently there are going to be 600,000 junkie Prestons on the
screen in this tv show, all of us asking “hey buddy, can you help me out?”
LOL, boy oh boy did they mess me up, turned me into the dirtiest scummiest
lookin’ junkie they possibly could, a 1970 NY junkie apparently, as the
show
is about the cops who busted the French Connection, waaaay back in, let’s
see, ummm, 1970. It actually looks very interesting, and not only ’cause
I’m
on it. They spent all day shooting me and the cop I’m hitting up for money
from all sorts of angles and positions, as he apparently goes into this
dream sequence of sorts, and starts thinking about how many junkies 5
pounds
of pure heroin could get high, which is how much apparently he and his
partner are trying to find and confiscate. So they put me here and there
and
on this roof edge (balancing on the ice and snow freakin’ climbing around
the sides of this building and parking garage), and in front of a green
screen, because they’re gonna first double my image, then quadruple, then
make it ten, then 600, then thousands, until it reaches an apparent
600,000
junkies, all being ME- LOL!

After hair and make up, I stolled over to Battery Park to visit craft
services, the table where they put all the snacks and coffee for the
actors
and crew, and immediately the woman guarding craft services accosted me:
“Can I help you” said her voice and her eyes added “you scumbag junkie
you.”
And the set’s NYPD lackies approached and began hovering around behind me
making sure everything was ok, ready to step in at a moment’s notice to
arrest the scummy dirty junkie raiding the craft services table. I only
stayed in charactor for a second or two, then grinned and let them and the
girl in on the “secret.” But it felt really weird walking around down town
like that, with a cold sore on my lip and other bloody spots all over my
face and dirty and filthy- all make up of course- but even I was having
trouble serving myself food during lunch, because my hands looked so
filthy,
but it was only makeup. But it was so like real-life of not so long ago, I
almost couldn’t stand it, not because it was uncomfortable but more
because
I simply am having trouble believing I’m getting paid (and flown out to LA
sometime this month for a few more days of shooting- film shooting, not
shooting shooting for those still thinking in that mode) to pretend to be
a
former version of…me!
Life is just so weird sometimes.
Ok all, sorry to take a few minutes of your day to tell you about my
day
yesterday, but I wanted to share, and again remind us all that even
junkies
are good for something. Right Nick?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 4, 2005 at 1:52:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/3/05 10:58:56 PM, NewCathy40@aol.com writes:

All we need is 670mgr of Ibogaine for a start to a life changing experience.
We are not looking for a miracle, just for some help. I am willing to do all
the necessary work after that to reach my goals ie: a “normal” drug free
life.

I have no ability to help you except to ask how you determined a dose of
670mg of ibogaine.  Just curious?

Howard

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From: Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 3, 2005 at 11:57:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cathy,

Can you be more specific about the pain medications you need to detox from?

A few comments spoken from the perspective of a spouse of a recently
sprung 45 yr old soul.  Ibogaine is a wonderful “addiction
interrupter,” but it leaves some work for “the addict” to do herself.
And it is no magic bullet – the older you are, the longer the recovery
seems to take.  Some things are “harder” to come off of, it seems, and
that’s why Sara’s set up is so cool.  You go there and she is there
for you for the long haul.  And you get out of your immediate
environment, which is a big plus it seems (anecdotally) for the longer
term trajectory.  Treatment gives you a window of relatively pain-free
kicking (detoxification), and with luck or grace or the Bwiti’s
inclination some visions or spirtual insights into the nature of the
pain being “medicated.”  And then you have to get back on your
metaphorical feet and start walking the good road again, taking
advantage if possible of the opportunity to get into therapy,
energetic body work, acupuncture, group support, and whatever else it
takes to stay clean.

I think you’re in the right place.

Sending love and light, rachel

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From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 3, 2005 at 11:13:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

I am a fourty year old woman and I have been dealing with a serious
addiction
to pain medications for 15 years. I have gone through several detox
programs
which were somewhat helpful but didn’t stop my addictions. I have had
several
relapses and just cannot kick the habit. I just don’t know how much longer
I can
take it. I have lost a 13 year old daughter in a car accident at a time I
was
clean. It took three months of fighting before I gave up and relapsed.
Since then
my struggle with drugs has been my major focus in life. I cannot hold a
job
anymore, I don’t really have a life.

I have been in a relationship for the last 2 years and this is also in
danger
because of my drug problem. My significant other has been very supportive
and
helping but this is not gonna last much longer if I don’t change my life.

We have recently become aware of iboga and Ibogaine. It seems to be
perhaps one
of the answer to my problem. We live in Atlanta GA. We have intensly
investigated
on this issue and learned as much as we could about it.

We feel that we are at the stage where we could put together a session
here at
home. We have met with people who have a certain knowledge of this
product. We
have done all the pre-session medical testing and we could line-up medical
supervision if necessary.

All we need is 670mgr of Ibogaine for a start to a life changing
experience. We
are not looking for a miracle, just for some help. I am willing to do all
the
necessary work after that to reach my goals ie: a “normal” drug free life.

We have read through our research about all the different abroad clinics
available (panama, dr. mash island, the boat off the florida waters,
Canada
etc…)all requiering a subsential amount of cash. And this is my
problem…Is
this a treatment for rich addicts only??
I just don’t want to believe that. I have no cash and I need help.

We have a car and can drive to pick up this most needed medication but we
don’t
know where to go. Atlanta so far seems dry or we just haven’t met with the
right
people yet. My boyfriend is a restaurant manager and I am unemployed. We
are not
working with any government agencies or law inforcement agencies.

We are just trying to save my life.

Please help us,

Cathy and Patrick.
cell 404 936 3693

newcathy40@aol.com

Cathy,

I’m not in The U.S, that makes it impossible for me to come and help you
where you are at.

I provide this treatment where it is legal,in The netherlands. at my home.

thanks,

Sara

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From: NewCathy40@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 3, 2005 at 11:03:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: NewCathy40
Subject: Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 3, 2005 at 10:58:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

I am a fourty year old woman and I have been dealing with a serious addiction
to pain medications for 15 years. I have gone through several detox programs
which were somewhat helpful but didn’t stop my addictions. I have had several
relapses and just cannot kick the habit. I just don’t know how much longer I can
take it. I have lost a 13 year old daughter in a car accident at a time I was
clean. It took three months of fighting before I gave up and relapsed. Since then
my struggle with drugs has been my major focus in life. I cannot hold a job
anymore, I don’t really have a life.

I have been in a relationship for the last 2 years and this is also in danger
because of my drug problem. My significant other has been very supportive and
helping but this is not gonna last much longer if I don’t change my life.

We have recently become aware of iboga and Ibogaine. It seems to be perhaps one
of the answer to my problem. We live in Atlanta GA. We have intensly investigated
on this issue and learned as much as we could about it.

We feel that we are at the stage where we could put together a session here at
home. We have met with people who have a certain knowledge of this product. We
have done all the pre-session medical testing and we could line-up medical
supervision if necessary.

All we need is 670mgr of Ibogaine for a start to a life changing experience. We
are not looking for a miracle, just for some help. I am willing to do all the
necessary work after that to reach my goals ie: a “normal” drug free life.

We have read through our research about all the different abroad clinics
available (panama, dr. mash island, the boat off the florida waters, Canada
etc…)all requiering a subsential amount of cash. And this is my problem…Is
this a treatment for rich addicts only??
I just don’t want to believe that. I have no cash and I need help.

We have a car and can drive to pick up this most needed medication but we don’t
know where to go. Atlanta so far seems dry or we just haven’t met with the right
people yet. My boyfriend is a restaurant manager and I am unemployed. We are not
working with any government agencies or law inforcement agencies.

We are just trying to save my life.

Please help us,

Cathy and Patrick.
cell 404 936 3693

newcathy40@aol.com

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From: NewCathy40@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Att: Sara or anyone else who can help
Date: March 3, 2005 at 10:58:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello,

I am a fourty year old woman and I have been dealing with a serious addiction
to pain medications for 15 years. I have gone through several detox programs
which were somewhat helpful but didn’t stop my addictions. I have had several
relapses and just cannot kick the habit. I just don’t know how much longer I can
take it. I have lost a 13 year old daughter in a car accident at a time I was
clean. It took three months of fighting before I gave up and relapsed. Since then
my struggle with drugs has been my major focus in life. I cannot hold a job
anymore, I don’t really have a life.

I have been in a relationship for the last 2 years and this is also in danger
because of my drug problem. My significant other has been very supportive and
helping but this is not gonna last much longer if I don’t change my life.

We have recently become aware of iboga and Ibogaine. It seems to be perhaps one
of the answer to my problem. We live in Atlanta GA. We have intensly investigated
on this issue and learned as much as we could about it.

We feel that we are at the stage where we could put together a session here at
home. We have met with people who have a certain knowledge of this product. We
have done all the pre-session medical testing and we could line-up medical
supervision if necessary.

All we need is 670mgr of Ibogaine for a start to a life changing experience. We
are not looking for a miracle, just for some help. I am willing to do all the
necessary work after that to reach my goals ie: a “normal” drug free life.

We have read through our research about all the different abroad clinics
available (panama, dr. mash island, the boat off the florida waters, Canada
etc…)all requiering a subsential amount of cash. And this is my problem…Is
this a treatment for rich addicts only??
I just don’t want to believe that. I have no cash and I need help.

We have a car and can drive to pick up this most needed medication but we don’t
know where to go. Atlanta so far seems dry or we just haven’t met with the right
people yet. My boyfriend is a restaurant manager and I am unemployed. We are not
working with any government agencies or law inforcement agencies.

We are just trying to save my life.

Please help us,

Cathy and Patrick.
cell 404 936 3693

newcathy40@aol.com

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]OT confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 6:31:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fast note 🙂 about  confession .PG13  Don’t shoot the messenger!!

Let us rid ourselves of evil doings.
Let every person ask pardon of the Great Light (Asis),
The molder of us all,
Who has given us this land to inhabit, and to multiply in.

African Traditional Religions.  Kipsigis Poem (Kenya)

If I have not so thought, so spoken, so acted,
Then do I repent for the sin,
Do I repent by my thought, word, and deed.
Do I repent with all my heart and conscience.

Zoroastrianism.  Patet 6

Truly, God loves those who repent, and He loves those who cleanse them-
selves.

Islam.  Qur’an 2.222

Great is repentance; it turns premeditated sins into incentives for right
conduct.

Judaism.  Talmud, Yoma 86b

Concern over remorse and humiliation depends on the borderline.  The urge
to blamelessness depends on remorse.

Confucianism.  I Ching, Great Commentary 1.3.4

If one hides the evil, it adds and grows.  If one bares it and repents,
the sin dies out.  Therefore all Buddhas say that the wise do not hide
sin.

Buddhism.  Mahaparinirvana Sutra

Let us rid ourselves of evil doings.
Let every person ask pardon of the Great Light (Asis),
The molder of us all,
Who has given us this land to inhabit, and to multiply in.

Whosoever looks upon his wrongdoing as wrongdoing, makes amends by con-
fessing it as such, and abstains from it in the future, will progress
according to the Law.

Buddhism.  Digha Nikaya, Samanaphala Sutta
Sin disappears with repentance.
Does not darkness vanish simultaneously with exposure to light?
Those who do not repent, retain their sins.
Is it not true that unexposed darkness remains darkness?
Confession may be made in secret, or you may write a letter to a leader of
the teachings.
Seicho-no-Ie.  Holy Sutra for Spiritual Healing

If a man finds that he has made a mistake, then he must not be afraid of
admitting the fact and amending his ways.

Confucianism.  Analects 1.8.iv.

“I must confess, ascetic who suffers with equanimity, for lack of
respect and day-to-day transgressions of the mind, speech, or body;
through anger, pride, deceit, or greed; false behavior and neglect of the
Teaching; and whatever offense I have committed I here confess, repudiate
and repent of it and set aside my past deeds.”

Jainism.  Vandana Formula

O Lord, dear Lord, our deeds weighed in the balance
Would get us no place in Thy court!
Forgive us and make us one with Thyself
Through the grace of the Guru.
If the Lord God can be attained to,
Then all evil is destroyed.

Sikhism.  Adi Granth, Shalok Vadhik, M.3, p. 1416

The grace of the Lord of heaven and earth is infinite and boundless; He
has endowed you with the Beautiful Gift, called the Spirit of Repentance,
with which to light up and purify yourself from sin.

Omoto Kyo.  Michi-no-Shiori ( Japan )

Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  Book of
Mormon, Alma 34.33-35

I have more but I don’t want to bore you

Peace and love
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

Hi
quck note–christians recieved the act of confesion from the Egyptians along with their ideology which alas has been perverted into one big joke

Warmest Regards>>>>>>>ONE LOVE>>>>>>>>>
MATT

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:31:57 -0500 Hi Ekki !! you wrote : i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i feel better after confessing! ##It’ s like when yo are crossing the atlantic in the sailboat. The wind blow almost fom the back but you have to make small adjustment if you don’t want to find yourself lost on the coast of Africa :-)) —– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession howard, thanks for being curious. i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i feel better after confessing! about my ibogaine experience: before i was at an all time low in my life, having tried all kind of withdrawals and exchanging my junkaddiction into a disasterous diazpam and vodka habit. btw i´m 30 years old. at the beginning i was drawn into landscapes of sadness and death, colors: brown, dark purple, black (the realms of addiction?). then any thoughts coming up were uttered by different characters, i felt leaving my self and my body. unearthly beings with scornful laughter (welcoming me?), rotating black masks and faces, elder tribesmen, sunflowers, a smiling girl and a lot more stuff, most impressive: a big rotating sun, nurishing all life, infinite energy. i didn´t know much about ibo at that time and ODed 5 days later on c&h&pills, lips turning blue, stopping to breath, pulse 190, hospital, i think i already wrote this anyway a few days later i woke up in the morning my body was like made up of light, there was this sun shining everywhere inside an outside myself, everything alife and i feel reborn ever since. i feel lucky to still be alife. cheers ekki Am 03.03.2005 um 13:31 schrieb HSLotsof@aol.com: > > In a message dated 3/3/05 2:58:55 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes: > >> iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any >> confession. > > Hi Ekki, > > What was your ibogaine experience like? Maybe you were running on > autoconfession. Maybe not! > > Howard, the curious one. > > > > /]=——————————————————————– > -=[\ > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > > \]=——————————————————————– > -=[/ > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 6:28:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi francis
thanks for sharing this hitman-story.
so most people think they carry around dark secrets or actually do so. you are taking away my naivity!
greetings
ekki

Am 03.03.2005 um 18:21 schrieb The Garden:

Hi Ekki !!
Confession is not specialy a christian concept. They use it in Africa, at
least in some tribes. Some American Indian use it too.I will do a research
but I bet I will found this in another religion. What about psicology,
could we consider this a confession ?

You wrote :
do people walk
around carying dark secrets with them?

## Infortunately most of people carry dark secrets, or at least they
consider theirs own secrets :dark. To their surprise most of the time, they
are’nt so dark after all :-)). Some had realy dark secrets.

Few days ago I had a friend of mine who for the first time in his life open
himself to another human being and was abble to look at his past with a
clear, fearless look at himself.and his actions. The recipient of his trust,
was me , his friend or confident.

The ” confession ” lasted several hours. tense, exausting time. What he
tiold me was very heavy stuff, for him and for me. This man grow up within
the Hell’s kitchen Irish mob, is cousin was Joe ” Mad dog” the hit man of
the Italian Mafia.Madness was running the place. After his “confession ” we
both agree that we will never talk about this anymore.

You know what he told me :- “this was not me”. – “This was not me running
with two 9 mn and shooting people”. I believe him, it was not him…. His
addiction was nothing romantic, he use to sell dope and rob drugstore
because the money was there. One day he tried crack against the rules of his
peers and he just  said: “I fell in love ” and he fell in love with the dope
….. And the dope never left him……. That cost him 10 years in jail ,
his first wife that he use to beat, a beautiful daughter that hate him. A
second wife and two kids that barely knows theirs father.

Now,why , on earth a man like him have to tell somebody his darks secrets?/!
You already  figure it  out : because he want to change and never be again
what he use to be. He want to drop his bags of dirty landry that he carried
for 25 years…. Because he is tired of being tired….Because a man can
change at any time. Because grown man can cry too..

Love and peace
Francis

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] pacemaker for the brain
Date: March 3, 2005 at 6:14:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

what black box?
Am 03.03.2005 um 02:26 schrieb Jasen Chamoun:

Are you talking about the black box?
—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 4:34 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] pacemaker for the brain

does anyone know about those stereotaxy pace-makers for the brain that can be used for treating parkinson, alzheimer, depression, anxiety, compulsive disordes etc.? ibogaine seems to help with those diseases, too.

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From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes
Date: March 3, 2005 at 5:47:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,
I am fairly new here but I really enjoy reading your stories and now you are
“acting”; I think you will do just great!
Thanks for sharing your day.Keep up the good work!
Susan

“Somewhere the Sky touches the Earth, and the name of that place is the
End.” – African saying.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:53 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes

Hi all,
So apparently there are going to be 600,000 junkie Prestons on the
screen in this tv show, all of us asking “hey buddy, can you help me out?”
LOL, boy oh boy did they mess me up, turned me into the dirtiest scummiest
lookin’ junkie they possibly could, a 1970 NY junkie apparently, as the
show
is about the cops who busted the French Connection, waaaay back in, let’s
see, ummm, 1970. It actually looks very interesting, and not only ’cause
I’m
on it. They spent all day shooting me and the cop I’m hitting up for money
from all sorts of angles and positions, as he apparently goes into this
dream sequence of sorts, and starts thinking about how many junkies 5
pounds
of pure heroin could get high, which is how much apparently he and his
partner are trying to find and confiscate. So they put me here and there
and
on this roof edge (balancing on the ice and snow freakin’ climbing around
the sides of this building and parking garage), and in front of a green
screen, because they’re gonna first double my image, then quadruple, then
make it ten, then 600, then thousands, until it reaches an apparent
600,000
junkies, all being ME- LOL!

After hair and make up, I stolled over to Battery Park to visit craft
services, the table where they put all the snacks and coffee for the
actors
and crew, and immediately the woman guarding craft services accosted me:
“Can I help you” said her voice and her eyes added “you scumbag junkie
you.”
And the set’s NYPD lackies approached and began hovering around behind me
making sure everything was ok, ready to step in at a moment’s notice to
arrest the scummy dirty junkie raiding the craft services table. I only
stayed in charactor for a second or two, then grinned and let them and the
girl in on the “secret.” But it felt really weird walking around down town
like that, with a cold sore on my lip and other bloody spots all over my
face and dirty and filthy- all make up of course- but even I was having
trouble serving myself food during lunch, because my hands looked so
filthy,
but it was only makeup. But it was so like real-life of not so long ago, I
almost couldn’t stand it, not because it was uncomfortable but more
because
I simply am having trouble believing I’m getting paid (and flown out to LA
sometime this month for a few more days of shooting- film shooting, not
shooting shooting for those still thinking in that mode) to pretend to be
a
former version of…me!
Life is just so weird sometimes.
Ok all, sorry to take a few minutes of your day to tell you about my
day
yesterday, but I wanted to share, and again remind us all that even
junkies
are good for something. Right Nick?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations,
Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 4:01:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
quck note–christians recieved the act of confesion from the Egyptians along with their ideology which alas has been perverted into one big joke

Warmest Regards>>>>>>>ONE LOVE>>>>>>>>>
MATT

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:31:57 -0500 Hi Ekki !! you wrote : i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i feel better after confessing! ##It’ s like when yo are crossing the atlantic in the sailboat. The wind blow almost fom the back but you have to make small adjustment if you don’t want to find yourself lost on the coast of Africa :-)) —– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession howard, thanks for being curious. i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i feel better after confessing! about my ibogaine experience: before i was at an all time low in my life, having tried all kind of withdrawals and exchanging my junkaddiction into a disasterous diazpam and vodka habit. btw iīm 30 years old. at the beginning i was drawn into landscapes of sadness and death, colors: brown, dark purple, black (the realms of addiction?). then any thoughts coming up were uttered by different characters, i felt leaving my self and my body. unearthly beings with scornful laughter (welcoming me?), rotating black masks and faces, elder tribesmen, sunflowers, a smiling girl and a lot more stuff, most impressive: a big rotating sun, nurishing all life, infinite energy. i didnīt know much about ibo at that time and ODed 5 days later on c&h&pills, lips turning blue, stopping to breath, pulse 190, hospital, i think i already wrote this anyway a few days later i woke up in the morning my body was like made up of light, there was this sun shining everywhere inside an outside myself, everything alife and i feel reborn ever since. i feel lucky to still be alife. cheers ekki Am 03.03.2005 um 13:31 schrieb HSLotsof@aol.com: > > In a message dated 3/3/05 2:58:55 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes: > >> iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any >> confession. > > Hi Ekki, > > What was your ibogaine experience like? Maybe you were running on > autoconfession. Maybe not! > > Howard, the curious one. > > > > /]=——————————————————————– > -=[\ > [%] Ibogaine List Commands: > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] > > \]=——————————————————————– > -=[/ > > /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

Help protect your PC with Virus Guard from MSN Premium: Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 3, 2005 at 2:26:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Thanks again Jim, I’m very lucky to have such an amazing set of friends, both online and offline!  I’ve gone through all the proper mental health routes and basically 2yrs is the waiting list-I guess they’d push me up it if I tried to kill myself or summat but that’s just too much trouble! 😉  I have got in touch with a local voluntary counselling service who accepts any donations you can afford and so I am getting help.  My psychiatric nurse had a go at my treatment clinic too for lack of support so now I have my own support worker who I see for the first time next week.  So don’t worry babe-I’m doing my homework although I still reckon my friends help me muchmore.

My ex boyfriend/best friend Dan was at mine this morning and got a call saying our friend (his closest friend) was found dead this morning.  He only called us last night-they think we were the last people to talk to him.  He was so happy, his life was just getting sorted n just like that he’s gone.  We’re both in shock.  He was just talking about coming for lunch next week…  He used to be into brown but stopped n was doing really well.  As far as we know he was just taking the odd valium to help him sleep n smoking weed.  Then he was found dead, he just never woke up this morning!  There will be an autopsy and then the funeral next thursday.  I can’t believe this is happening!#

So I’m trying to look after Dan and my friend Lisa and I’ve got 2 uni assignments due in next week and the week after!  I’ll try get them deferred.  So basically I haven’t time to worry about myself.  As I said, I’m still in shock.

Thanks anyway and I’ll definitely email you if I need to talk.  I’ll let you know how things go.  I know I mustn’t beat myself up for relapsing cuz that’s another excuse to go back to using.  But I’m taking each day as it comes this week.

Love to everyone anyway.

Jess was a lovely sweet and gentle guy.  I want people to know this so he hasn’t just disappeared.  He would always fight for the underdog whtever the cost to himself.  He was also a really fun person to be around, he always cheered you up.  I have soem amazing memories of him though several including illegal activities! 😉  He got into the brown and the white and every other drug and spent alot of time inside but he was never violent or lost his sense of humour or compassion.  He just picked some wrong paths through life.  Its just so sad that he finally had it together-he was so happy last night, n now he’s gone…  I hope he’s found peace.  Hmmm, that’d bore him…I just hope he’s happy.  Please think of him tonight people.

Hannah xxx

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hi Hanna,

I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad.  You dealer played you with the freebies, of course who could resist.  He spends $100 or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick.

I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not take two years.  It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they said it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead or in jail by then.

You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters in the ass-kicking machine.  We have all been there.  I would say try calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention Center, or United Way.  Being on disability I sometimes need help and I call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc.  Also, call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be surprised.  Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to jails and prisons.  After all you really have nothing to lose.  Remember we are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in harmony.  Yes, much eaiser said then done.  I really believe if you call enough places you will find someone.  Damn, I sound like a salesman.  Don’t stop trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom.  I am not a lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change your friends and places you go.  I am sure you have heard that before too.  I wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned and the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone who can help.  Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as many calls as it takes.  If they can not help you ask them if they know anyplace that can before you hang up.

The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill.  As I said before they did not help me and made things worse.  I am not depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals.  Of course that does not mean the drugs will not help you.  Just be aware of your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops.  But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean and don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.”  Say hell yes I mind, I have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you?  Those SSRI drugs can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide goes up.

I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number and avoid your dealer.  Feel free to write to me if you want off line jimhadey3@yahoo.com .  Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can help.  Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well balanced diet can not be beat.  I know you don’t feel like eating sometimes but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and emotions.  Try the calls and let me know what happens.

Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) ,

– JIM
Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up!  My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time!  I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week.  I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex!  And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started.  No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?!

I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone.  I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped.  He thinks I just need a good nights sleep.  They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning!  But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great.  Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?!

BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs!

I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate!  I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food.  Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin.  I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general.  If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve!  And its cheap!

Thanks for caring and I do listen!
Love Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.
I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!
Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…
Julie
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 3, 2005 at 2:17:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m near Nottingham in the East-Midlands ina town called Lincoln.  Weird but
recently I’ve been making sure I do alot of medititation, yoga, walking, and
when sex is unavailable 😉 masterbating!  It’s all good.  I try to keep an
objective perspective on my life.  I will check out the staying clean bit
though I’ve a tonne of uni work to do and people to look after.  A close
friend died last night-he’s all I can think of right now.  I still can’t
believe it true.

Thnks everyone for your continued support,
Hannah xxx
—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hey Hannah,

Give yourself a hug. Julie and Jim et al. are giving you love, as am I.
You
know yourself, look into yourself and figure out what you need.
Meditating,
yoga, masturbating, a walk in the park, whatever, get out of your head to
look into yourself. My 2 cents: I don’t know about the drugs you are on,
but
yam yam is yam yam. Only you can do it and if you want it, it’s not that
hard. We are a strong species, and women in particular are tough. Ever
heard
of childbirth? My added suggestions: get out of your head: exercise,
movie,
sex, something… fun. If there is a loved one or family you can go clean
up
at, find a couch, be honest ask for help. Find a way that works and is
honest for you. Find a buddy, say Julie. You know something? Most often if
you ask for help, people will help. Have some joy. Go on line and check
out
this on mind-vox, see what helps and then if you’ve cleaned up add your
own
thoughts. It was ment to be an evoling document, Julie, Jim, Carla,
others,
add your wisdom. Carla, let Patrick finish his book. He’ll be just as cute
when it’s finished.

Hanna, find a path of goodness and joy… why not? The best lessons of AA
are loss of ego and service to others. Sounds like you are in England no?

Take care,
Steve.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:04:57 -0800 (PST)

Hi Hanna,

I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad.  You dealer
played you with the freebies, of course who could resist.  He spends $100
or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick.

I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health
clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not
take
two years.  It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they
said
it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead
or
in jail by then.

You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this
forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters
in the ass-kicking machine.  We have all been there.  I would say try
calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention
Center, or United Way.  Being on disability I sometimes need help and I
call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a
message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc.  Also,
call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be
surprised.  Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to
jails and prisons.  After all you really have nothing to lose.  Remember
we
are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in
harmony.
Yes, much eaiser said then done.  I really believe if you call enough
places you will find someone.  Damn, I sound like a salesman.  Don’t stop
trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it
gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom.  I am not a
lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change
your
friends and places you go.  I am sure you have heard that before too.  I
wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned
and
the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone
who can help.  Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as
many
calls as it takes.  If they can not help you ask them if they know
anyplace
that can before you hang up.

The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer
before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill.
As I said before they did not help me and made things worse.  I am not
depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals.  Of
course that does not mean the drugs will not help you.  Just be aware of
your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call
someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops.
But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean
and
don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.”  Say hell yes I mind, I
have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you?  Those SSRI drugs
can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide
goes up.

I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number
and avoid your dealer.  Feel free to write to me if you want off line
jimhadey3@yahoo.com .  Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can
help.
Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well
balanced diet can not be beat.  I know you don’t feel like eating
sometimes
but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and
emotions.  Try the calls and let me know what happens.

Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) ,

– JIM

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just hearing kind words from
people cheers me up!  My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as
little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all
the time!  I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just
been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week.
I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it
makes
my heart bleed more over my own Ex!  And I was clean but then my dealer
started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my
financial
problems started.  No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does
that stop me?!

I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone.  I’m to see him in a couple of
weeks to see if that’s helped.  He thinks I just need a good nights
sleep.
They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then
I
wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning!  But I don’t feel
groggy
and that’s great.  Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a
natural timetable?!

BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs!

I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate!  I’ve lost a
stone
cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food.  Friends
are
starting to say I look unhealthily thin.  I do keep thinking about my
blood
sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg
(I
eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general.  If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d
probably starve!  And its cheap!

Thanks for caring and I do listen!
Love Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a
woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think
opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re
talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.

I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY
helped
me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s
recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies,
brown/wild
rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I
couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as
does
organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.
There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it-
oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!

Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 3, 2005 at 2:12:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Matt.  I haven’t used Ibogaine yet simply because I really don’t have the money.  Evwery day’s a battle just to keep a roof over me and my dog’s head.  And believe me, he eats a hell of a lot better than I do! 😉

I have tried Valerian root but didn’t seem to notice it-maybe I’m too used to Valium and don’t feel anything less subtle.  I thought I’d try Bach Flower Remedy as I’ve heard lots of good things about that.  Really I want to do the Ibogaine but I know it’ll happen when I’m ready.

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hi
I realize when you are strung out diets/doctors/thearpist usualy if not always mean jack shit …i know before i got clean  the above mentioned things were just an excue to use more because they never worked……juding that youa re on the list u must have taken eboga —try it again >?maybe this time you get a biger picture of life>? you know that im finally clean im using alot of homeopathic remedies and i swear they are working—–antying ranging from stress/anxiety/insomnia/energy —i get a huge benefit from them—u might want to think about it in the future– just know it takes TIME AND MONEY–hope you find your way
Warmest Regards>>>>>>>ONE LOVE>>>>>>>>>
MATT

—-Original Message Follows—- From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:04:57 -0800 (PST) Hi Hanna, I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad. You dealer played you with the freebies, of course who could resist. He spends $100 or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick. I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not take two years. It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they said it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead or in jail by then. You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters in the ass-kicking machine. We have all been there. I would say try calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention Center, or United Way. Being on disability I sometimes need help and I call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc. Also, call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be surprised. Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to jails and prisons. After all you really have nothing to lose. Remember we are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in harmony. Yes, much eaiser said then done. I really believe if you call enough places you will find someone. Damn, I sound like a salesman. Don’t stop trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom. I am not a lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change your friends and places you go. I am sure you have heard that before too. I wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned and the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone who can help. Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as many calls as it takes. If they can not help you ask them if they know anyplace that can before you hang up. The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill. As I said before they did not help me and made things worse. I am not depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals. Of course that does not mean the drugs will not help you. Just be aware of your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops. But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean and don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.” Say hell yes I mind, I have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you? Those SSRI drugs can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide goes up. I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number and avoid your dealer. Feel free to write to me if you want off line jimhadey3@yahoo.com . Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can help. Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well balanced diet can not be beat. I know you don’t feel like eating sometimes but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and emotions. Try the calls and let me know what happens. Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) , – JIM Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote: Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies. Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up! My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time! I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week. I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex! And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started. No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?! I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone. I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped. He thinks I just need a good nights sleep. They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning! But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great. Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?! BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs! I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate! I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food. Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin. I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general. If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve! And its cheap! Thanks for caring and I do listen! Love Hannah x —– Original Message —– From: Ms Iboga To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam Hannah, Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to. I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty. If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang. I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress. Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices. For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba. There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it! Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe… Julie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ——————————— Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

Enjoy 25MB of inbox storage and 10MB per file attachment with MSN Premium. Join now and get the first two months FREE* /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 3, 2005 at 2:08:53 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks again Jim, I’m very lucky to have such an amazing set of friends, both online and offline!  I’ve gone through all the proper mental health routes and basically 2yrs is the waiting list-I guess they’d push me up it if I tried to kill myself or summat but that’s just too much trouble! 😉  I have got in touch with a local voluntary counselling service who accepts any donations you can afford and so I am getting help.  My psychiatric nurse had a go at my treatment clinic too for lack of support so now I have my own support worker who I see for the first time next week.  So don’t worry babe-I’m doing my homework although I still reckon my friends help me muchmore.

My ex/best friend Dan was at mine this morning and got a call saying our friend (his closest friend) was found dead this morning.  He only called us last night-they think we were the last people to talk to him.  He was so happy, his life was just getting sorted n just like that he’s gone.  We’re both in shock.  He was just talking about coming for lunch next week…  He used to be into brown but stopped n was doing really well.  As far as we know he was just taking the odd valium to help him sleep n smoking weed.  Then he was found dead, he just never woke up this morning!  There will be an autopsy and then the funeral next thursday.  I can’t believe this is happening!#

So I’m trying to look after Dan and my friend Lisa and I’ve got 2 uni assignments due in next week and the week after!  I’ll try get them deferred.  So basically I haven’t time to worry about myself.  As I said, I’m still in shock.

Thanks anyway and I’ll definitely email you if I need to talk.  I’ll let you know how things go.  I know I mustn’t beat myself up for relapsing cuz that’s another excuse to go back to using.  But I’m taking each day as it comes this week.

Love to everyone anyway.

Jess was a lovely sweet and gentle guy.  I want people to know this so he hasn’t just disappeared.  He would always fight for the underdog whtever the cost to himself.  He was also a really fun person to be around, he always cheered you up.  I have soem amazing memories of him though several including illegal activities! 😉  He got into the brown and the white and every other drug and spent alot of time inside but he was never violent or lost his sense of humour or compassion.  He just picked some wrong paths through life.  Its just so sad that he finally had it together-he was so happy last night, n now he’s gone…  I hope he’s found peace.  Hmmm, that’d bore him…I just hope he’s happy.  Please think of him tonight people.

Hannah xxx

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hi Hanna,

I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad.  You dealer played you with the freebies, of course who could resist.  He spends $100 or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick.

I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not take two years.  It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they said it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead or in jail by then.

You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters in the ass-kicking machine.  We have all been there.  I would say try calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention Center, or United Way.  Being on disability I sometimes need help and I call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc.  Also, call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be surprised.  Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to jails and prisons.  After all you really have nothing to lose.  Remember we are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in harmony.  Yes, much eaiser said then done.  I really believe if you call enough places you will find someone.  Damn, I sound like a salesman.  Don’t stop trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom.  I am not a lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change your friends and places you go.  I am sure you have heard that before too.  I wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned and the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone who can help.  Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as many calls as it takes.  If they can not help you ask them if they know anyplace that can before you hang up.

The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill.  As I said before they did not help me and made things worse.  I am not depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals.  Of course that does not mean the drugs will not help you.  Just be aware of your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops.  But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean and don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.”  Say hell yes I mind, I have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you?  Those SSRI drugs can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide goes up.

I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number and avoid your dealer.  Feel free to write to me if you want off line jimhadey3@yahoo.com .  Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can help.  Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well balanced diet can not be beat.  I know you don’t feel like eating sometimes but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and emotions.  Try the calls and let me know what happens.

Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) ,

– JIM
Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up!  My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time!  I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week.  I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex!  And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started.  No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?!

I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone.  I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped.  He thinks I just need a good nights sleep.  They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning!  But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great.  Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?!

BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs!

I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate!  I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food.  Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin.  I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general.  If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve!  And its cheap!

Thanks for caring and I do listen!
Love Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.
I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!
Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…
Julie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 3, 2005 at 1:45:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You wrote :
Steve you wrote : It’s not ‘bad.’

## Why not ?/!
Yam Yam is Yam Yam  and Yam Yam do things to you, to your family and to the
countries who produce Yam Yam.
Then man who have nothing to do with Yam Yam suffer and died for the Yam Yam
God  Then people who sellYam Yam use it as a tool to keeps the masses
enslaved. Is that bad ?/! You never don’t know ?/!

Did I make sens……. not much….    🙂
Talking about Yam. Here a good recipe straight  from Africa . Buy some Yam
( the real one, the food )  Boiled until tender and serve with condensed
milk> You get a lot of Serotonine out of it. :-))

—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean/KeepingClean.html

Steven!  You’ve woken up again!  Duz this mean it will soon contain EVEN
MORE timeless wisdom and Inspirational ThotZ?

Just checking.

Patrick

Not from me, but there has to be someone out there who has learned a thing
or two and would like to share. The idea was that it keeps getting
improved,
unlike the big book which kind of sits like a sacred text. Here’s one: If
pulled over by cops and asked “whatcha eating?” Answer: “Some cake my
saintly mother baked.”

Is there anyone out there who feels like making a little “So, you want to
take ibo” bit that you could put on your site? I’ll write a blurb if you
get
your knees dirty Patrick.

Randy, glad it’s helped a bit. You might want to check SMART recovery
on-line www.smartrecovery.org/ it might give you a few helpful ideas,
there
may even be a meeting close by. It’s great that you are doing work to keep
the dark master at bay. Patrick once wrote that the basis of AA is very
old:
loss of ego and service to others and that is good. You are doing your
part!
Congrats.

Matt, check out both the keeping clean and the smart stuff. Eat right,
excercise, avoid triggers, find some activities other than smack – sex is
a
good one (alone or with others) – and you should be fine. The more
proactive
you are about it, the better. Remember that cravings are like waves, they
come, they go. If you feel it coming on, do something to keep busy until
it
goes away. Going by the coping part of town for old memories is a bad
activity though.

Hannah, you are in my thoughts and whatever vauge and confused version of
prayer I do. I really hope you come through this.

Ekki, my mom is German and “Ekki” was a nickname for me. Congrats on 12
weeks, don’t get lazy. It’s so easy to think “Well just one taste won’t
hurt
anyone. I’m doing so well… just one go for old times sake…” For me at
least, that one taste never stayed at one.

Francis, something to think about addiction. As a species we are
hard-wired
for it. We are all hard-wired to be addicted to sex, food, and
companionship. That helps humans spread like rats and weeds. It’s just
that
some of us are addicted to some other things and have trouble stopping.
It’s
not ‘bad.’

Steve.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 3, 2005 at 12:56:07 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean/KeepingClean.html

Steven!  You’ve woken up again!  Duz this mean it will soon contain EVEN MORE timeless wisdom and Inspirational ThotZ?

Just checking.

Patrick

Not from me, but there has to be someone out there who has learned a thing or two and would like to share. The idea was that it keeps getting improved, unlike the big book which kind of sits like a sacred text. Here’s one: If pulled over by cops and asked “whatcha eating?” Answer: “Some cake my saintly mother baked.”

Is there anyone out there who feels like making a little “So, you want to take ibo” bit that you could put on your site? I’ll write a blurb if you get your knees dirty Patrick.

Randy, glad it’s helped a bit. You might want to check SMART recovery on-line www.smartrecovery.org/ it might give you a few helpful ideas, there may even be a meeting close by. It’s great that you are doing work to keep the dark master at bay. Patrick once wrote that the basis of AA is very old: loss of ego and service to others and that is good. You are doing your part! Congrats.

Matt, check out both the keeping clean and the smart stuff. Eat right, excercise, avoid triggers, find some activities other than smack – sex is a good one (alone or with others) – and you should be fine. The more proactive you are about it, the better. Remember that cravings are like waves, they come, they go. If you feel it coming on, do something to keep busy until it goes away. Going by the coping part of town for old memories is a bad activity though.

Hannah, you are in my thoughts and whatever vauge and confused version of prayer I do. I really hope you come through this.

Ekki, my mom is German and “Ekki” was a nickname for me. Congrats on 12 weeks, don’t get lazy. It’s so easy to think “Well just one taste won’t hurt anyone. I’m doing so well… just one go for old times sake…” For me at least, that one taste never stayed at one.

Francis, something to think about addiction. As a species we are hard-wired for it. We are all hard-wired to be addicted to sex, food, and companionship. That helps humans spread like rats and weeds. It’s just that some of us are addicted to some other things and have trouble stopping. It’s not ‘bad.’

Steve.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] 600,000 junkie mes
Date: March 3, 2005 at 12:53:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
So apparently there are going to be 600,000 junkie Prestons on the screen in this tv show, all of us asking “hey buddy, can you help me out?” LOL, boy oh boy did they mess me up, turned me into the dirtiest scummiest lookin’ junkie they possibly could, a 1970 NY junkie apparently, as the show is about the cops who busted the French Connection, waaaay back in, let’s see, ummm, 1970. It actually looks very interesting, and not only ’cause I’m on it. They spent all day shooting me and the cop I’m hitting up for money from all sorts of angles and positions, as he apparently goes into this dream sequence of sorts, and starts thinking about how many junkies 5 pounds of pure heroin could get high, which is how much apparently he and his partner are trying to find and confiscate. So they put me here and there and on this roof edge (balancing on the ice and snow freakin’ climbing around the sides of this building and parking garage), and in front of a green screen, because they’re gonna first double my image, then quadruple, then make it ten, then 600, then thousands, until it reaches an apparent 600,000 junkies, all being ME- LOL!

After hair and make up, I stolled over to Battery Park to visit craft services, the table where they put all the snacks and coffee for the actors and crew, and immediately the woman guarding craft services accosted me: “Can I help you” said her voice and her eyes added “you scumbag junkie you.” And the set’s NYPD lackies approached and began hovering around behind me making sure everything was ok, ready to step in at a moment’s notice to arrest the scummy dirty junkie raiding the craft services table. I only stayed in charactor for a second or two, then grinned and let them and the girl in on the “secret.” But it felt really weird walking around down town like that, with a cold sore on my lip and other bloody spots all over my face and dirty and filthy- all make up of course- but even I was having trouble serving myself food during lunch, because my hands looked so filthy, but it was only makeup. But it was so like real-life of not so long ago, I almost couldn’t stand it, not because it was uncomfortable but more because I simply am having trouble believing I’m getting paid (and flown out to LA sometime this month for a few more days of shooting- film shooting, not shooting shooting for those still thinking in that mode) to pretend to be a former version of…me!
Life is just so weird sometimes.
Ok all, sorry to take a few minutes of your day to tell you about my day yesterday, but I wanted to share, and again remind us all that even junkies are good for something. Right Nick?
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 12:31:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki !!
you wrote :
i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since
it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i
feel better after confessing!

##It’ s like when yo are crossing the atlantic in the sailboat. The wind
blow almost fom the back but you have to make small adjustment if you don’t
want to find yourself lost on the coast of Africa :-))

—– Original Message —–
From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

howard, thanks for being curious.

i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since
it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i
feel better after confessing!

about my ibogaine experience:
before i was at an all time low in my life, having tried all kind of
withdrawals and exchanging my junkaddiction into a disasterous diazpam
and vodka habit. btw i´m 30 years old.
at the beginning i was drawn into landscapes of sadness and death,
colors: brown, dark purple, black (the realms of addiction?). then any
thoughts coming up were uttered by different characters, i felt leaving
my self and my body. unearthly beings with scornful laughter (welcoming
me?), rotating black masks and faces, elder tribesmen, sunflowers, a
smiling girl and a lot more stuff, most impressive: a big rotating sun,
nurishing all life, infinite energy.
i didn´t know much about ibo at that time and ODed 5 days later on
c&h&pills, lips turning blue, stopping to breath, pulse 190, hospital,
i think i already wrote this anyway a few days later i woke up in the
morning my body was like made up of light, there was this sun shining
everywhere inside an outside myself, everything alife and i feel reborn
ever since. i feel lucky to still be alife.

cheers
ekki

Am 03.03.2005 um 13:31 schrieb HSLotsof@aol.com:

In a message dated 3/3/05 2:58:55 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any
confession.

Hi Ekki,

What was your ibogaine experience like?  Maybe you were running on
autoconfession.  Maybe not!

Howard, the curious one.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 12:21:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ekki !!
Confession is not specialy a christian concept. They use it in Africa, at
least in some tribes. Some American Indian use it too.I will do a research
but I bet I will found this in another religion. What about psicology,
could we consider this a confession ?

You wrote :
do people walk
around carying dark secrets with them?

## Infortunately most of people carry dark secrets, or at least they
consider theirs own secrets :dark. To their surprise most of the time, they
are’nt so dark after all :-)). Some had realy dark secrets.

Few days ago I had a friend of mine who for the first time in his life open
himself to another human being and was abble to look at his past with a
clear, fearless look at himself.and his actions. The recipient of his trust,
was me , his friend or confident.

The ” confession ” lasted several hours. tense, exausting time. What he
tiold me was very heavy stuff, for him and for me. This man grow up within
the Hell’s kitchen Irish mob, is cousin was Joe ” Mad dog” the hit man of
the Italian Mafia.Madness was running the place. After his “confession ” we
both agree that we will never talk about this anymore.

You know what he told me :- “this was not me”. – “This was not me running
with two 9 mn and shooting people”. I believe him, it was not him…. His
addiction was nothing romantic, he use to sell dope and rob drugstore
because the money was there. One day he tried crack against the rules of his
peers and he just  said: “I fell in love ” and he fell in love with the dope
….. And the dope never left him……. That cost him 10 years in jail ,
his first wife that he use to beat, a beautiful daughter that hate him. A
second wife and two kids that barely knows theirs father.

Now,why , on earth a man like him have to tell somebody his darks secrets?/!
You already  figure it  out : because he want to change and never be again
what he use to be. He want to drop his bags of dirty landry that he carried
for 25 years…. Because he is tired of being tired….Because a man can
change at any time. Because grown man can cry too..

Love and peace
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

hi francis
what i don´t get is what there really is to confess? do people walk
around carying dark secrets with them?
personally i don´t eat small children and i don´t like to be pushed by
NA or the church or whoever to confess anything.
i know i created some bad karma (by writing foolish emails, not smiling
at my neighbour, doing to much drugs) and its no big deal admitting it,
so what?
also i wouldn´t agree that this concept is originally christian. where
does it come from?
having bread&wine as holy communion is enough.
focusing on my own wrongdoings doesn´t help anybody.

iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any
confession.

that were my thoughts,
peace
ekki

Am 03.03.2005 um 02:49 schrieb The Garden:

Hi Steve !!
I realy like your last few E-Mail.
You are right about all the “ALL BWITI “. This is a generalisation
from the
writer who wrote the article , in fact I put the link to the page
where I
found it.

Some time I take some short cut and this is due in part of my lack of
abilities to convoy an idea, something that can be so difficult to
explain
like faith, God, redemption.When , I have made my first confession, I
was
not really seeking for a redemption. I always had this firm belief
that God
is perfect so absolutely just, so he knows from where I was coming
from.
I’ve done it, because they told me to do it ( they: people in NA/AA)
and I
continue to do it on a regular base because it make me feel better. It
make
me think of the gap beetwen who I want to be and who I am exactly ..

Words are so useless when we try to express a spiritual concept !! Dam
it !!
Let take an easample; The computer. Regularly I have to clean my
cache, get
rid of the coockies, clean the Temporary folder, get read of virus,
trojan
horses. Check , scan the hardrive and run a program who will get rid
of the
corrupted segment. That exactly what confession is for me and my soul
. I
run better,smoother, and I just feel better. Don’t ask me why !! I
realt
don’t know; like the computer don’t know either  🙂

A definition of addiction ? I am looking for one 🙂 The best one will
come
from an addict or an alcoholic.

“Something or someone that you loved very much, but betrayed you, then
tried
to destroy you mentaly, physicly ,spritualy and forced you to continue
the
hatefull  relation against your will for the sake of the  good old
time  .”

This will be my definition, but in a good english.:-)
What is your definition ?
Love and Peace
Francis

In the message AA/NA they speak about wrongs . The wrongs we’ ve done.I
don’t know about you but I have done a lot of ” wrongs ” and I still
do ;-))
, It ‘s part of my condition, I guess  ;-((
—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

Matt & Francis,

I agree with Matt about confession and most everything he wrote.
Francis,
beware of the statement “ALL BWITI make you confess your sins” which
is
like
saying “All Christians… take communion” or “All monothesitic faiths
make
you confess your sins” or “all men are scum” or “all black people are
lazy.”There many various tribes and sects, not just Fang and they all
shit
talk each other. There is a clensing in most, not all, sometimes
before,
sometimes after. It’s more of a cleaning in a river and being washed
(the
tribe I was with at least) with some amazing plants that I could
swear had
dmt in it. The problem I had with the AA notion of seeking redemption
for
my
sins is that I really didn’t feel like it had anything to do with my
drug
use. Sure I’ve sinned, but no more than anyone else and I never saw
what
it
had to do with my heroin hobby. It was not my sins which made me do
too
many
drugs. “Acting in mysterious ways” says god in a press conference
after
the
tsunami.

Just for sec consider that we may never know God, as my dog will never
really know what I know of the world or the beauty of Bethoven.
That’s the
fun part. I’m fine with never knowing. It’s beyond us. Ibo can be a
way to
see more than you do on your average Tuesday, it struck me as a bit
of a
trickster and still a search for the unknowable. I didn’t get the
feeling
that it was direct truth from god. For me at least it was a bit of
snarky
and messing around sort of thing.

I’m looking for a good definition of addiction for you Francis.

Whoever wrote the four steps to better karma, best advice I’ve read
in a
long time.

To the people thinking of crack ibo, seems very very scary to me. One
of
the
stupidest things I ever did was smoke dmt on loads of ibo. Very very
bad
idea. Not the same I know, but the idea of crack ibo seems very
dangerous.
Be very careful if anyone tries it.

Peace out all,
Steve

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From: Andrea Plementos <aplementos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 3, 2005 at 10:37:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Todd,

Thank you for the kind words.  You are the epitome of
an Ibogaine ‘success story’, and it was wonderful to
be able to extend to you a helping hand.

Please give me a call soon.  Take care, and have a
great day!

Much love,

Andrea

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 3, 2005 at 8:43:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well Steven, I checked out the keeping clean link on the homepage, AGAIN, and read something new. I guess I don’t go there enough ’cause I missed what Patrick put on there last year sometime, or put on there yesterday and dated it last year, or maybe I’m just hallucinating and just imagined I read it. Whatever. He wrote something that hit me right between the eyes. (He does that a lot.) Anyway, he was talking about going from drowning to walking on water, and in a twisted kind of way I can relate to that. Using force of will and intellect to get where you want to go was very foreign to me for a very long time. I was a walking knee jerk reaction to life before Ibogaine. I never put much thought into anything but copping dope and trying to keep from nodding out at work, or at a gig, in my dinner, or at the fuckin’ wheel. I can think now. Hell, I could even manipulate better if I wanted to. I’ve been getting up and reading the list, drinkin’ coffee, and generally getting on with my life without realizing that I have made some changes. I’ve burnt up the Internet and the phone line talking to my friend and counselor about helping other people without thinking about the fact that I am helping myself. In retrospect, I see that I have done a lot of things to help myself. At first I fought tooth and nail against any aftercare. I didn’t think that I needed any help. I thought that I had all the information that I needed. Well, maybe I did, but I hadn’t given myself the time, or the peace of mind, to put it all into context. Listening at meetings, and talking to my therapist seemed like a waste of time. It wasn’t. I read a book called the 4 Agreements that I didn’t want to read, and it helped in a big way. Why am I so hard headed? Oh yea, I’m a junky. You gotta be hard headed to do what I did. And that reminds me of something I read about addiction. A definition of addiction…….or insanity, your choice……Doing everything you can, and in the face of adversity, to keep your addiction going, knowing that it is the single biggest threat to your life. Or something like that. Thanx all, for letting me rant.         Randy

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 8:15:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

howard, thanks for being curious.

i have to confess i felt not good after posting the last message since it was in kind of an attacking style i want to omit in future. now i feel better after confessing!

about my ibogaine experience:
before i was at an all time low in my life, having tried all kind of withdrawals and exchanging my junkaddiction into a disasterous diazpam and vodka habit. btw i´m 30 years old.
at the beginning i was drawn into landscapes of sadness and death, colors: brown, dark purple, black (the realms of addiction?). then any thoughts coming up were uttered by different characters, i felt leaving my self and my body. unearthly beings with scornful laughter (welcoming me?), rotating black masks and faces, elder tribesmen, sunflowers, a smiling girl and a lot more stuff, most impressive: a big rotating sun, nurishing all life, infinite energy.
i didn´t know much about ibo at that time and ODed 5 days later on c&h&pills, lips turning blue, stopping to breath, pulse 190, hospital, i think i already wrote this anyway a few days later i woke up in the morning my body was like made up of light, there was this sun shining everywhere inside an outside myself, everything alife and i feel reborn ever since. i feel lucky to still be alife.

cheers
ekki

Am 03.03.2005 um 13:31 schrieb HSLotsof@aol.com:

In a message dated 3/3/05 2:58:55 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any
confession.

Hi Ekki,

What was your ibogaine experience like?  Maybe you were running on
autoconfession.  Maybe not!

Howard, the curious one.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 7:31:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 3/3/05 2:58:55 AM, ekkijdfg@gmx.de writes:

iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any
confession.

Hi Ekki,

What was your ibogaine experience like?  Maybe you were running on
autoconfession.  Maybe not!

Howard, the curious one.

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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine freebase
Date: March 3, 2005 at 2:50:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was how to turn the HCl into freebase, I guess you don’t need a high PH either, so probably near neutral the ibogaine becomes freebase.  I’d still go for an 8-9 myself but whatever…  As for the effects, I dunno, but you can vaporize the freebase of many drugs for inhalation.  That is how I “smoke” DMT…  You can smoke freebase cocaine this way, etc…  May be dangerous for Iboga, but I have no clue…  Guess some crazy mofo will have to give it a try and see…

es <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi CE, most of what you’ve said went way over my head
but the question I have about ibogaine freebase
instead of HCL is what would be the advantage of using
ibogaine like this?

Has anyone on this list ever done it?

Carla B

— Crooked Eye wrote:

> To make HCl into freebase, you dissolve it in water,
> basify the solution, then add a non-polar solvent,
> agitate, let it settle, then seperate and evaporate
> the non-polar solvent. Repeat the non-polar solvent
> mix two more times to make sure you get it all. It
> is very simple, as for how you can use the freebase
> and what effects may be different, I don’t know, I
> haven’t tried it… For an idea of which solvent to
> use, check extraction guides, because they probably
> use one that iboga is very soluble in, I don’t know
> right off hand which would be best, but I imagine
> ether, naphtha, or any aromatic solvent should work.
> Use lye or sodium hydroxide to basify, I imagine a
> ph of 11 would be strong enough to turn it to
> freebase but I don’t know the exact ph at which the
> reaction takes place, so 11 should be safe….
> CE
>
> nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:
> any feedback on this question yet?
>
> > pure curiosity:
> > is there a recipe of how to make freebase out of
> HCl? its easy to do
> > with cocaine HCl . does ibogaine behaves similar ?
> can freebase be
> > absorbed by the body as well as HCl, since its
> probably not water
> > soluble? please donīt get upset anyone, i wonīt
> try to smoke it and i
> > donīt plan to flood the ghettos with crack
> ibogaine (LOL). its trivial
> > pursuit only. -ekki
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
> ———————————
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 3, 2005 at 2:49:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi francis
what i don´t get is what there really is to confess? do people walk around carying dark secrets with them?
personally i don´t eat small children and i don´t like to be pushed by NA or the church or whoever to confess anything.
i know i created some bad karma (by writing foolish emails, not smiling at my neighbour, doing to much drugs) and its no big deal admitting it, so what?
also i wouldn´t agree that this concept is originally christian. where does it come from?
having bread&wine as holy communion is enough.
focusing on my own wrongdoings doesn´t help anybody.

iboga has worked for me, at least until now, 12 weeks, without any confession.

that were my thoughts,
peace
ekki

Am 03.03.2005 um 02:49 schrieb The Garden:

Hi Steve !!
I realy like your last few E-Mail.
You are right about all the “ALL BWITI “. This is a generalisation from the
writer who wrote the article , in fact I put the link to the page where I
found it.

Some time I take some short cut and this is due in part of my lack of
abilities to convoy an idea, something that can be so difficult to explain
like faith, God, redemption.When , I have made my first confession, I was
not really seeking for a redemption. I always had this firm belief that God
is perfect so absolutely just, so he knows from where I was coming from.
I’ve done it, because they told me to do it ( they: people in NA/AA) and I
continue to do it on a regular base because it make me feel better. It make
me think of the gap beetwen who I want to be and who I am exactly ..

Words are so useless when we try to express a spiritual concept !! Dam it !!
Let take an easample; The computer. Regularly I have to clean my cache, get
rid of the coockies, clean the Temporary folder, get read of virus, trojan
horses. Check , scan the hardrive and run a program who will get rid of the
corrupted segment. That exactly what confession is for me and my soul . I
run better,smoother, and I just feel better. Don’t ask me why !! I realt
don’t know; like the computer don’t know either  🙂

A definition of addiction ? I am looking for one 🙂 The best one will come
from an addict or an alcoholic.

“Something or someone that you loved very much, but betrayed you, then tried
to destroy you mentaly, physicly ,spritualy and forced you to continue the
hatefull  relation against your will for the sake of the  good old time  .”

This will be my definition, but in a good english.:-)
What is your definition ?
Love and Peace
Francis

In the message AA/NA they speak about wrongs . The wrongs we’ ve done.I
don’t know about you but I have done a lot of ” wrongs ” and I still do ;-))
, It ‘s part of my condition, I guess  ;-((
—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

Matt & Francis,

I agree with Matt about confession and most everything he wrote. Francis,
beware of the statement “ALL BWITI make you confess your sins” which is
like
saying “All Christians… take communion” or “All monothesitic faiths make
you confess your sins” or “all men are scum” or “all black people are
lazy.”There many various tribes and sects, not just Fang and they all shit
talk each other. There is a clensing in most, not all, sometimes before,
sometimes after. It’s more of a cleaning in a river and being washed (the
tribe I was with at least) with some amazing plants that I could swear had
dmt in it. The problem I had with the AA notion of seeking redemption for
my
sins is that I really didn’t feel like it had anything to do with my drug
use. Sure I’ve sinned, but no more than anyone else and I never saw what
it
had to do with my heroin hobby. It was not my sins which made me do too
many
drugs. “Acting in mysterious ways” says god in a press conference after
the
tsunami.

Just for sec consider that we may never know God, as my dog will never
really know what I know of the world or the beauty of Bethoven. That’s the
fun part. I’m fine with never knowing. It’s beyond us. Ibo can be a way to
see more than you do on your average Tuesday, it struck me as a bit of a
trickster and still a search for the unknowable. I didn’t get the feeling
that it was direct truth from god. For me at least it was a bit of snarky
and messing around sort of thing.

I’m looking for a good definition of addiction for you Francis.

Whoever wrote the four steps to better karma, best advice I’ve read in a
long time.

To the people thinking of crack ibo, seems very very scary to me. One of
the
stupidest things I ever did was smoke dmt on loads of ibo. Very very bad
idea. Not the same I know, but the idea of crack ibo seems very dangerous.
Be very careful if anyone tries it.

Peace out all,
Steve

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] KeEp1nG Cl3aN
Date: March 3, 2005 at 1:58:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Mar 3, 2005, at 1:52 AM, Steven Anker wrote:

Hey Hannah,

Somewhere on the mind vox site is a part called keeping clean, that is what I was talking about when I said check this out.

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/KeepingClean/KeepingClean.html

Steven!  You’ve woken up again!  Duz this mean it will soon contain EVEN MORE timeless wisdom and Inspirational ThotZ?

Just checking.

Patrick

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ahum
Date: March 3, 2005 at 1:54:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Gabon totally fucking rox — I just felt that needed to be said — the concept I mean.  I haven’t gone there yet, but God told me to.  Eventually, I will.

Perhaps, I will regret this.  Laying in dirt and being eaten by insects, or hangin’ inna air-conditioned room where I cOntRol AlL ThingS.  Hum … tough choice.

Thank you, that wuz all.

Patrick

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 3, 2005 at 1:52:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Hannah,

Somewhere on the mind vox site is a part called keeping clean, that is what I was talking about when I said check this out.

Steve

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 3, 2005 at 1:35:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Hannah,

Give yourself a hug. Julie and Jim et al. are giving you love, as am I. You know yourself, look into yourself and figure out what you need. Meditating, yoga, masturbating, a walk in the park, whatever, get out of your head to look into yourself. My 2 cents: I don’t know about the drugs you are on, but yam yam is yam yam. Only you can do it and if you want it, it’s not that hard. We are a strong species, and women in particular are tough. Ever heard of childbirth? My added suggestions: get out of your head: exercise, movie, sex, something… fun. If there is a loved one or family you can go clean up at, find a couch, be honest ask for help. Find a way that works and is honest for you. Find a buddy, say Julie. You know something? Most often if you ask for help, people will help. Have some joy. Go on line and check out this on mind-vox, see what helps and then if you’ve cleaned up add your own thoughts. It was ment to be an evoling document, Julie, Jim, Carla, others, add your wisdom. Carla, let Patrick finish his book. He’ll be just as cute when it’s finished.

Hanna, find a path of goodness and joy… why not? The best lessons of AA are loss of ego and service to others. Sounds like you are in England no?

Take care,
Steve.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:04:57 -0800 (PST)

Hi Hanna,

I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad.  You dealer played you with the freebies, of course who could resist.  He spends $100 or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick.

I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not take two years.  It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they said it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead or in jail by then.

You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters in the ass-kicking machine.  We have all been there.  I would say try calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention Center, or United Way.  Being on disability I sometimes need help and I call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc.  Also, call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be surprised.  Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to jails and prisons.  After all you really have nothing to lose.  Remember we are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in harmony.  Yes, much eaiser said then done.  I really believe if you call enough places you will find someone.  Damn, I sound like a salesman.  Don’t stop trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it
gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom.  I am not a lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change your friends and places you go.  I am sure you have heard that before too.  I wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned and the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone who can help.  Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as many calls as it takes.  If they can not help you ask them if they know anyplace that can before you hang up.

The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill.  As I said before they did not help me and made things worse.  I am not depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals.  Of course that does not mean the drugs will not help you.  Just be aware of your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops.  But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean and don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.”  Say hell yes I mind, I have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you?  Those SSRI drugs can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide goes up.

I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number and avoid your dealer.  Feel free to write to me if you want off line jimhadey3@yahoo.com .  Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can help.  Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well balanced diet can not be beat.  I know you don’t feel like eating sometimes but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and emotions.  Try the calls and let me know what happens.

Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) ,

– JIM

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up!  My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time!  I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week.  I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex!  And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started.  No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?!

I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone.  I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped.  He thinks I just need a good nights sleep.  They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning!  But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great.  Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?!

BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs!

I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate!  I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food.  Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin.  I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general.  If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve!  And its cheap!

Thanks for caring and I do listen!
Love Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.

I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!

Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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———————————
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 2, 2005 at 8:49:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Steve !!
I realy like your last few E-Mail.
You are right about all the “ALL BWITI “. This is a generalisation from the
writer who wrote the article , in fact I put the link to the page where I
found it.

Some time I take some short cut and this is due in part of my lack of
abilities to convoy an idea, something that can be so difficult to explain
like faith, God, redemption.When , I have made my first confession, I was
not really seeking for a redemption. I always had this firm belief that God
is perfect so absolutely just, so he knows from where I was coming from.
I’ve done it, because they told me to do it ( they: people in NA/AA) and I
continue to do it on a regular base because it make me feel better. It make
me think of the gap beetwen who I want to be and who I am exactly ..

Words are so useless when we try to express a spiritual concept !! Dam it !!
Let take an easample; The computer. Regularly I have to clean my cache, get
rid of the coockies, clean the Temporary folder, get read of virus, trojan
horses. Check , scan the hardrive and run a program who will get rid of the
corrupted segment. That exactly what confession is for me and my soul . I
run better,smoother, and I just feel better. Don’t ask me why !! I realt
don’t know; like the computer don’t know either  🙂

A definition of addiction ? I am looking for one 🙂 The best one will come
from an addict or an alcoholic.

“Something or someone that you loved very much, but betrayed you, then tried
to destroy you mentaly, physicly ,spritualy and forced you to continue the
hatefull  relation against your will for the sake of the  good old time  .”

This will be my definition, but in a good english.:-)
What is your definition ?
Love and Peace
Francis

In the message AA/NA they speak about wrongs . The wrongs we’ ve done.I
don’t know about you but I have done a lot of ” wrongs ” and I still do ;-))
, It ‘s part of my condition, I guess  ;-((
—– Original Message —–
From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

Matt & Francis,

I agree with Matt about confession and most everything he wrote. Francis,
beware of the statement “ALL BWITI make you confess your sins” which is
like
saying “All Christians… take communion” or “All monothesitic faiths make
you confess your sins” or “all men are scum” or “all black people are
lazy.”There many various tribes and sects, not just Fang and they all shit
talk each other. There is a clensing in most, not all, sometimes before,
sometimes after. It’s more of a cleaning in a river and being washed (the
tribe I was with at least) with some amazing plants that I could swear had
dmt in it. The problem I had with the AA notion of seeking redemption for
my
sins is that I really didn’t feel like it had anything to do with my drug
use. Sure I’ve sinned, but no more than anyone else and I never saw what
it
had to do with my heroin hobby. It was not my sins which made me do too
many
drugs. “Acting in mysterious ways” says god in a press conference after
the
tsunami.

Just for sec consider that we may never know God, as my dog will never
really know what I know of the world or the beauty of Bethoven. That’s the
fun part. I’m fine with never knowing. It’s beyond us. Ibo can be a way to
see more than you do on your average Tuesday, it struck me as a bit of a
trickster and still a search for the unknowable. I didn’t get the feeling
that it was direct truth from god. For me at least it was a bit of snarky
and messing around sort of thing.

I’m looking for a good definition of addiction for you Francis.

Whoever wrote the four steps to better karma, best advice I’ve read in a
long time.

To the people thinking of crack ibo, seems very very scary to me. One of
the
stupidest things I ever did was smoke dmt on loads of ibo. Very very bad
idea. Not the same I know, but the idea of crack ibo seems very dangerous.
Be very careful if anyone tries it.

Peace out all,
Steve

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] pacemaker for the brain
Date: March 2, 2005 at 8:26:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Are you talking about the black box?
—– Original Message —– From: “ekki” <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 4:34 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] pacemaker for the brain

does anyone know about those stereotaxy pace-makers for the brain that can be used for treating parkinson, alzheimer, depression, anxiety, compulsive disordes etc.? ibogaine seems to help with those diseases, too.

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From: bm <bmali1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] State Regulation and Control of Psychoactive Substances: The Vision
Date: March 2, 2005 at 7:49:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

this from the blog DrugWarRant
http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/2005/03/02.html
Big News! King County Bar Association tells Washington
State to defy Feds and Completely Revolutionize Drug
Policy

Thanks to Blog Relead, and an article in The Stranger.

The King County Bar Association (KCBA), Seattle
Washington, has approved a sweeping, comprehensive,
and (frankly) amazing Drug Policy Resolution that will
be released tomorrow.

They are calling upon the State of Washington to take
over the regulation and dispensation of drugs
currently under federal prohibition, and have prepared
states’ rights constitutional arguments in preparation
for the inevitable show-down with the feds.

This comprehensive work includes a full detailed
history of drug prohibition, an analysis of models in
other countries and a section called “States’ Rights:
Toward a Federalist Drug Policy.” (Which includes a
fascinating argument that Washington, by acting as a
market participant in drugs by controlling their sale
could exempt themselves from interstate commerce
regulation.)

Just from the brief reading I’ve done of the entire
collection of documents, this may be the most
important drug policy reform document in recent years.

I am so impressed with the opening vision statement,
that I’m going to re-print it in its entirety here:

State Regulation and Control of Psychoactive
Substances: The Vision

The King County Bar Association supports a public
health approach to the chronic societal problem of
substance abuse, stressing the need to shift resources
into research, education, prevention and treatment as
an alternative to the continued use of criminal
sanctions, to achieve the objectives of:
reducing crime and public disorder;

improving public health;

protecting children better; and

using scarce public resources more wisely.

By any measure, current drug control policies have
failed to achieve those objectives.

As a result of years of intensive study, the King
County Bar Association recommends the establishment of
a state- level system of regulatory control over those
psychoactive substances that are currently produced
and distributed exclusively in illegal markets. The
main purposes of this state-level regulatory system
are:
to render the illegal markets for psychoactive
substances unprofitable, thereby eliminating the
incentives for criminal enterprises to engage in the
violent, illegal drug trade;

to reduce access by young persons to psychoactive
drugs and to provide them better education and
prevention services; and

to open new gateways to treatment, finding the
hard-to-reach population of addicted persons who
consume the bulk volume of drugs, drying up black
market demand for those drugs and thereby reducing
public disorder, economic crimes related to addiction,
transmission of disease, accidental death, quantities
of drugs consumed, initiation of use by young persons
and drug addiction itself, as well as criminal
justice, public health and social welfare costs.

The King County Bar Association and its coalition
partners are not currently proposing specific
legislation and do not presume to set forth every
detail of a state-level regulatory system for
controlling psychoactive substances. Rather, the
coalition is calling on the Washington State
Legislature to authorize a special consultative body
of experts in pharmacology, medicine, public health,
education, law and law enforcement, as well as public
officials and civic leaders, to provide specific
recommendations for legislative action to establish
such a state-level system of regulatory control.

The politically-charged term “legalization” is
insufficient to describe how the state might control
those psychoactive substances that are now exclusively
produced and distributed through illegal markets. The
concept of strict regulation and control of
psychoactive drugs is a more accurate and useful
description of this proposal and must be carefully
distinguished from the idea of commercialization of
such drugs.

The King County Bar Association’s vision for a system
of effective drug control contemplates differing
degrees of control for each substance, depending on
the known potential for harm. It is likely that only
registered addicts would have access to the more
addictive drugs such as heroin, and only through
state-licensed or state-controlled medical treatment
facilities as part of addiction treatment regimes
aimed at reducing the quantity of use and eventually
the elimination of use — an approach now proven
effective in Europe.

The vast bulk of “hard” drugs are consumed by a
relatively small number of addicted users. Certifying
and registering as many of those users as possible and
bringing them into state-controlled medical treatment
facilities would, therefore, dry up the black market
in each local area. Other potential users who might
want to experiment with such substances would have to
obtain them from the “gray” market, which currently
exists for other pharmaceuticals and is easier to
control (although a growing problem in the U.S.)

Cannabis might be regulated in the same manner as
distilled spirits, with controlled availability from
licensed producers to adults through facilities
operated by the state and a prohibition on
advertising. Separate, state-regulated medical
cooperatives would provide cannabis to patients at low
cost. As an alternative, a state-supervised system of
home production (not dissimilar to home brewing) and
non-commercial exchanges might satisfy the demand for
cannabis, thereby reducing the potential harm from
excessive availability and making state-controlled
outlets unnecessary.

Young persons would continue to be prohibited from
possessing or using psychoactive substances because
their relatively limited ability to make informed
judgments renders them especially vulnerable to the
adverse effects of drug use and preventing or delaying
such use would allow for the development of social
competence and resilience to risk. State sanctions for
drug use by young people would not be criminal,
however, but rehabilitative and restorative and based
in the community and the family.

Pricing structures for state-controlled substances
could easily undercut black market prices and in many
cases the substances would be provided free of charge
or at very low cost (along a sliding scale) to
registered addicts at the state-controlled medical
treatment facilities. Any revenue to the state would
support the administration of the regulatory framework
and would maximize funding for prevention, treatment,
research and education, while maintaining price levels
low enough to render any illegal markets unprofitable
but high enough to deter consumption, especially by
young persons.

Most psychoactive substances currently produced and
distributed exclusively in illegal markets would
become less available than they are today and
certainly less available than alcohol, especially to
young persons. Cannabis might become more available to
adults, but compelling research from many countries
indicates that cannabis availability brings about a
“substitution effect,” which dampens the use of
alcohol and tobacco, as well as of other, more
dangerous drugs.

Where pure and safe forms of “hard” drugs would be
available to addicts through prescribed maintenance
regimes aimed at reducing harm, drug use and drug
addiction, the medical nature of this approach would
likely discourage many new users of such drugs when
they are perceived as medicine for sick people more
than as a way to have fun.

The prescription drug maintenance programs in Europe
and Canada should serve as a guide, where hard-core
drug addicts are brought indoors into medically-
supervised facilities and stabilized with controlled
doses that are free of charge. These programs have
brought about very promising outcomes:
reductions in overdose deaths;

reductions in the transmission of disease;

reductions in economic crimes related to addiction;

reductions in levels of public disorder;

reductions in the quantity of drugs used;

elimination of drug habits altogether for 20% of
participants;

stabilization of the health of participants;

increased employment rates of participants;

law enforcement support; and

a changed culture where addictive drugs like heroin
lose their cachet and are considered more like
medication for sick people, resulting in declining
rates of first-time use of such drugs.

Without such programs in the United States, this
hard-to-reach addict population now continues to
stimulate the illegal market, to contribute to public
disorder, to spread disease and to suffer overdoses
without any reduction in drug use and certainly no
abstinence. These are just some of the devastating
effects of the current approach of drug prohibition
and criminalization, which is draining state and local
coffers through ever-rising criminal justice costs.

The King County Bar Association proposal would not
only pay for itself, but would provide the state with
additional funds for effective education about the
dangers of psychoactive drugs and for medical
treatment for those harmed by drug use. Recent
research in Washington State has shown how generous
investments in prevention and treatment yield
significant savings from avoided costs in medical
care, social welfare and criminal justice. The current
proposal would allow for enhanced prevention and
treatment to be financed from massive savings that
would arise from reduced use of the criminal justice
system.

[emphasis original]

Wow!

This is truly amazing stuff. The research is solid.
The conclusions are correct. The proposal is sensible
and workable, and if ever allowed to actually happen
would manifestly prove the lie that has been our
national drug policy. If this gets any kind of legs,
the federal government will go nuclear.

=====
” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine of Hippo
Very bad isn’t dead (“Things can get worse.”)–Haitian Proverbs
“A truth that’s told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.” William Blake.

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 2, 2005 at 7:42:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
I realize when you are strung out diets/doctors/thearpist usualy if not always mean jack shit …i know before i got clean  the above mentioned things were just an excue to use more because they never worked……juding that youa re on the list u must have taken eboga —try it again >?maybe this time you get a biger picture of life>? you know that im finally clean im using alot of homeopathic remedies and i swear they are working—–antying ranging from stress/anxiety/insomnia/energy —i get a huge benefit from them—u might want to think about it in the future– just know it takes TIME AND MONEY–hope you find your way
Warmest Regards>>>>>>>ONE LOVE>>>>>>>>>
MATT

—-Original Message Follows—- From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 15:04:57 -0800 (PST) Hi Hanna, I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad. You dealer played you with the freebies, of course who could resist. He spends $100 or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick. I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not take two years. It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they said it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead or in jail by then. You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters in the ass-kicking machine. We have all been there. I would say try calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention Center, or United Way. Being on disability I sometimes need help and I call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc. Also, call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be surprised. Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to jails and prisons. After all you really have nothing to lose. Remember we are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in harmony. Yes, much eaiser said then done. I really believe if you call enough places you will find someone. Damn, I sound like a salesman. Don’t stop trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom. I am not a lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change your friends and places you go. I am sure you have heard that before too. I wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned and the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone who can help. Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as many calls as it takes. If they can not help you ask them if they know anyplace that can before you hang up. The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill. As I said before they did not help me and made things worse. I am not depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals. Of course that does not mean the drugs will not help you. Just be aware of your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops. But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean and don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.” Say hell yes I mind, I have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you? Those SSRI drugs can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide goes up. I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number and avoid your dealer. Feel free to write to me if you want off line jimhadey3@yahoo.com . Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can help. Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well balanced diet can not be beat. I know you don’t feel like eating sometimes but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and emotions. Try the calls and let me know what happens. Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) , – JIM Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote: Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies. Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up! My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time! I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week. I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex! And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started. No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?! I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone. I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped. He thinks I just need a good nights sleep. They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning! But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great. Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?! BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs! I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate! I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food. Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin. I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general. If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve! And its cheap! Thanks for caring and I do listen! Love Hannah x —– Original Message —– From: Ms Iboga To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam Hannah, Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to. I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty. If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang. I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress. Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices. For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba. There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it! Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe… Julie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ——————————— Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

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From: bm <bmali1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine freebase
Date: March 2, 2005 at 7:27:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi
all you need is to neutralise HCl . pH 11 is
unnecessary . it will help if you can get a pH strip .
remember sodium hydroxide is a strong base and pH will
jump once you are past 3-4 or so . have a bit of
acetic acid and ammonia handy if you want to avoid
extreme pH .
any solvent which has some polar character and is
water immiscible ( as you need to seperate ) will do .
for example hexane ( which is completely non-polar )
will make a poor solvent for this alkaloid . i am
afraid i do not know the commercial / street names .
what ever solvent was used in the preparation of the
crude extract will do .
another thing . if you can live with residual common
salt ( NaCl ) which is the product of neutralization
of HCl . then get a good quality filter paper and
simply seperate the precipitate from the liquid . the
compound is very poorly ( but NOT TOTALLY INSOLUBLE in
water ) soluble so your loses will be minimal if your
volume is  reasonable  .

=====
” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine of Hippo
Very bad isn’t dead (“Things can get worse.”)–Haitian Proverbs
“A truth that’s told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.” William Blake.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 2, 2005 at 6:32:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Todd, I hope you don’t mind but I want to send your post about your Ibogaine experience to a friend of mine who directs a methadone clinic in the South. I’m compiling data and accounts of treatment for him. This guy is an exception to most people in a position of authority at the clinics in the US. He wants what is best for the addict. After all, that’s what methadone was supposed to be about in the first place. Life Rocks, turn it up.    Randy

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 2, 2005 at 6:04:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hanna,

I really hate to say it but I believe you got it pretty bad.  You dealer played you with the freebies, of course who could resist.  He spends $100 or less then gets you hooked – to me that is sick.

I am not sure where you live but if you call you county mental health clinic and asked for a therapist or shrink of some kind, it should not take two years.  It reminds me one time I called some detox place and they said it would be 8 months to a year and I said never mind I’ll either be dead or in jail by then.

You relasped, it happened to us all one time or another, everyone on this forum has relasped so there really is no reason to put all those quarters in the ass-kicking machine.  We have all been there.  I would say try calliing places like the Red Cross, Salvation Army and Suicide Prevention Center, or United Way.  Being on disability I sometimes need help and I call the phone numbers and some are disconnected, others you leave a message and they never call back, others have a waiting list, etc.  Also, call some churches maybe a good minister or priest could help, you may be surprised.  Some have consoled before and I know some who used to go to jails and prisons.  After all you really have nothing to lose.  Remember we are body, mind and spirit and we try and have them all working in harmony.  Yes, much eaiser said then done.  I really believe if you call enough places you will find someone.  Damn, I sound like a salesman.  Don’t stop trying, sometimes you have to hurt so bad it gives you an incentive, they call it hitting rock bottom.  I am not a lover of NA but some of the things they say are true, you must change your friends and places you go.  I am sure you have heard that before too.  I wish there was more I could do, but if you call the places I mentioned and the county health center you may have a better chance of finding someone who can help.  Find an hour, relax, get out the phone book and make as many calls as it takes.  If they can not help you ask them if they know anyplace that can before you hang up.

The bad part about it is you got to take the drugs two weeks or longer before they help, then if you don’t like them it is back to another pill.  As I said before they did not help me and made things worse.  I am not depressed because of a lack of serintonin or other brain chemicals.  Of course that does not mean the drugs will not help you.  Just be aware of your thoughts and if you think of suicide or other bad thoughts call someone, even if it is the fire department which is the same as the cops.  But if they take you in it is withdrawal and be sure you house is clean and don’t fall for the “mind if I look around bit.”  Say hell yes I mind, I have enough problems, what the hell is wrong with you?  Those SSRI drugs can be very powerful and when you start taking them the risk of suicide goes up.

I know it is a tough situation, when you clean up change you phone number and avoid your dealer.  Feel free to write to me if you want off line jimhadey3@yahoo.com .  Sometimes just having a friend to talk to can help.  Julie is right about eating right, nutrition is important and a well balanced diet can not be beat.  I know you don’t feel like eating sometimes but you may be playing havoc with you blood sugar and thus your moods and emotions.  Try the calls and let me know what happens.

Keeping you in my prayers – Positive energy coming you way:) ,

– JIM
Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up!  My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time!  I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week.  I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex!  And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started.  No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?!

I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone.  I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped.  He thinks I just need a good nights sleep.  They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning!  But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great.  Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?!

BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs!

I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate!  I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food.  Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin.  I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general.  If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve!  And its cheap!

Thanks for caring and I do listen!
Love Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.
I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!
Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…
Julie
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From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Life after Ibogaine-report
Date: March 2, 2005 at 5:22:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Did you all read the report>? I think the results are very poromising.  Even the people who began using immediatly showed signs of psyhcological improvemtn.  im wondering How long have you all been clean >?(hard drugs excluding thc/alchohol)
Warmest Regards>>>>>>>ONE LOVE>>>>>>>>>
MATT

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 2, 2005 at 5:17:14 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Matt & Francis,

I agree with Matt about confession and most everything he wrote. Francis, beware of the statement “ALL BWITI make you confess your sins” which is like saying “All Christians… take communion” or “All monothesitic faiths make you confess your sins” or “all men are scum” or “all black people are lazy.”There many various tribes and sects, not just Fang and they all shit talk each other. There is a clensing in most, not all, sometimes before, sometimes after. It’s more of a cleaning in a river and being washed (the tribe I was with at least) with some amazing plants that I could swear had dmt in it. The problem I had with the AA notion of seeking redemption for my sins is that I really didn’t feel like it had anything to do with my drug use. Sure I’ve sinned, but no more than anyone else and I never saw what it had to do with my heroin hobby. It was not my sins which made me do too many drugs. “Acting in mysterious ways” says god in a press conference after the tsunami.

Just for sec consider that we may never know God, as my dog will never really know what I know of the world or the beauty of Bethoven. That’s the fun part. I’m fine with never knowing. It’s beyond us. Ibo can be a way to see more than you do on your average Tuesday, it struck me as a bit of a trickster and still a search for the unknowable. I didn’t get the feeling that it was direct truth from god. For me at least it was a bit of snarky and messing around sort of thing.

I’m looking for a good definition of addiction for you Francis.

Whoever wrote the four steps to better karma, best advice I’ve read in a long time.

To the people thinking of crack ibo, seems very very scary to me. One of the stupidest things I ever did was smoke dmt on loads of ibo. Very very bad idea. Not the same I know, but the idea of crack ibo seems very dangerous. Be very careful if anyone tries it.

Peace out all,
Steve

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From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 2, 2005 at 5:13:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Juile,

I had a rather atypical post ibo sequence.

I slept like a grizzly (8 hours +) for the first
month….. then that gradually tapered off to my
normal six.  My appetite was great.  And then mixed
with a exercise and a new nutrition program I was good
as new.

It’s only now been about 11 weeks for me.

Ibo was amazing for almost completely eliminating the
WD’s for me.  But I was only on Hydro’s, lot’s of them
though (maybe 140mg’s per day)   but I don’t really
feel as though I can compare myself to others with
what have been described as much harsher addictions.
I suppose in the grand scheme of things I had a fairly
light form of opiate dependence.

Though ibo was a terrifying experience.  No happy
dancing ibo warriors or soothing trippy space images
for me…no sirreee.  It was pure hell and effing
scary as f**k …as I saw every possible image that
was designed to scare the shit outta me.  My worst
fears and most terrifying thoughts played out over the
course of 8 hours.

But I realized later (as soon as the next day) that
this was exactly as my brain had intended it to be.
I realized that my brain was performing an act of
self-preservation on me/us/itself by showing me these
god-awful images in
incredibly-fast-repetitive-Marix-like fashion that
would soon be me if I didn’t change my lifestyle.

I’m still haunted by what I saw….but I realize that
my brain (still odd to talk about the brain in the 3rd
person) had to show me these things in order for me to
straighten up.

Freaky…..but very necessary.  And it worked.  And
I’m thankful.

Makes sense though because I’m a rather highly
functioning successful person…so my brain really had
to slap me around some for me to get the message. 🙂

All my love and best wishes to you,
Todd

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

OK, cool….

I’m glad to hear you’re doing so well…how are you
feeling these days?

Feel free to send me a mail(on or offlist) whenever
you like…   ms_iboga@yahoo.com

love J.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT: Star Wars Episode III pictures- WARNING: HEAVY SPOILERS
Date: March 2, 2005 at 5:05:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

whoops, sorry about that

http://right-thoughts.us/library/starwars3/

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: Star Wars Episode III pictures- WARNING: HEAVY SPOILERS
Date: March 2, 2005 at 4:22:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Star Wars fans,

There must be some of you on this list…Here are some
awesome pics of the upcoming Episode III.

WARNING: HEAVY SPOILERS!

J.

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:54:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, cool….

I’m glad to hear you’re doing so well…how are you
feeling these days?

Feel free to send me a mail(on or offlist) whenever
you like…   ms_iboga@yahoo.com

love J.

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From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:39:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julia,

I did.  I’ll wait patiently.

Andrea and ibo was a life saver for me…. or at least
I was able to get back on my natural path.

I’m not going anywhere.

I would love to speak to you too.

Love,
Todd

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Todd,

I think you have to send an email to
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

It might take a bit before you are unsubscribed…

Todd, Andrea’s website is almost up…please don’t
run
away…I want to talk to you more…

Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dear Todd
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:30:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Todd,

I think you have to send an email to
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com

It might take a bit before you are unsubscribed…

Todd, Andrea’s website is almost up…please don’t run
away…I want to talk to you more…

Julie

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Bwiti. indians, catholic and confession
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:18:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Matt !!
Thanks for your E-mail :- )
Confession is not realy and only a christian concept as you know and outline referring to the huitchol.

In my humble opinion, and I can talk only of my experience : confession was a turning point of my recovery and I means confession to another human being. This a very humbling experience, not realy easy 🙂 He took me years before I decided myself to do it !!
I understand that we make wrong choices in our life mostly by ignorance or not knowing a better way to act. But the fact that we have to recognize out loud or mistakes,  is very powerful.
When you are done, such a weight is lifted from your shoulder that actualy you gain few inches in height. I swear :-))

Just try it ;-))

I agree with you : you don’t have to see a priest, you can go to see a lawyer too or a doctor  🙂 anyone that you can trust or  that is under oath.
I agree with you : God do not punish us. He Is perfect and perfectly good and just.

We punish ouselves  already by living in separation from :  him / her, who ever is this pure form of Love and understanding.

About confession : a  strange fact : when an exorcist had to do an intervention, he had to do a full confession before he start the exorcism . If  not. the possessed persone or more exactly the entitie who possessed the patient could use the  knowledge of his sins against the priest.
Another strange fact, when a scholar had to consult some very rare books in the library of the Vatican on the list of
” the cursed books ” they had to go throught a full  confession, a mass before and after the  reading….

A great exorcism is only one of the three forms of exorcism. The first one is the baptism, the second is a simple confession.
This is only in the frame of the  beliefs of the catholic church and I wrote about this just as an illustration on the subject of confession, as a curiositie for the reader.
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession

Hi
Confession is fucken oldchool.  From Anceint egypt to christianity etc  the huichol (sp) indians  also confess before ingesting peyote——
i think it makes sense to a certain point—not in the christian sense where u have to see a priest -confess-only to go back out and do it agian—i think that confesing before taking a sacred comunion eases the pressure on the psyche not to have a bad experience…but the only person i would confess is to my self—-it was i who have erred and it is up to me to learn from these mistakes therefore the confessions becomes a questioning and evalution your past errors– i would  never ever confess to atone for my sins etc —–you cannot atone for anything when 1 you alsays learnin/evolving 2. when you realize that life places you in certain conditions where veracity/morals only become topics of great philosphies..The whole concepts of sin and God in the Christian sense have put so many manacles on peoples hadns that people still believe “God” has a face–is responsible for you—will punish/reward you—-etc  …..I saw “God” when i took Eboga —a boundless pulsating positve energy of LOVE—it was emanating so much Love/light/hapiness/ that i realize only now that we as human beings create “God” “devil” by our actions/emotions/feelings/energy/thoughts…etc….Also i always respected the Romantic writers in their conception of “god” where they say its a supernatural being but rather a creative spirit reasding in beuty/nature

Warmest Regards
MATT

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:52:21 -0500 Hi List!! Was reading some stuff on Ibogaine and I found something on the Bwiti credo. Is fascinating for me to find out that they believe thet a full confession is necessary before using Ibogaine : ” In all Bwiti sects, initiation is considered to be a direct contact between man and the Divine and this is triggered by the ingestion of iboga root in large quantities: 50-100 times the quantity used during the ordinary collective ngozé. The person to be initiated must ingest it in repeated small doses within a 8-14 hour time-span. The ingestion of the hallucinogen is preceded by a ritual offering to the forest and to its trees, and also by a confession pronounced before the presiding officiants. The confession concerns the entire past of the individual. According to the Fang people, sins of an antisocial nature are by far the worst. In the event of non-confession of sins, it is thought that the effect of iboga can trigger a “bad trip” with unpredictable consequences, leading to madness or – should the concealed sin be homicide – even to the death of the person being initiated. There is only one confession and it is made once in a lifetime, during the first part of the initiation.” Same principles of AA / NA Where they believe that you cant have a full recovery if you don’t unload the weight of sins ?/! This text is a http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16779 God bless Francis —– Original Message —– From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house Summer house is known as ‘GET OFF HOUSE” tHE DOCTOR IS NEBER THERE ABD THEY ARE ALL ABOUT THE $. Lets barage them with e-mails. How dare they trash Ibo when they used to refer patients to Eric taub. Fuck them

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Todd Morgan <sovntm@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Please unsubscribe me from this list
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:12:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m glad it(the stuffed puppy) work it for you.  I
would just like to eliminate the 50 or so “bulk”
emails per day for me….that would help me through
the “hard times.” 🙂

Kidding of course.

I was never hooked for years on the “horse” or the
“done,” …it was hydro for me after an injruy.

But your “Benzo” thing sounded kinda touch and go for
a while.

Best of luck to you.

P.S. even though I’ve unsuscribed via Mindvox….I’m
still on this list….go figure.

— Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

i used an old, well worn stuffed puppy to help me
thru the hard times…ron

—– Original Message —–
From: “Todd Morgan” <sovntm@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:04 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Please unsubscribe me from this
list

I’ve looked for an automated routine on
ibogaine.org
to unsubscribe from this list but to no avail…..

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine freebase
Date: March 2, 2005 at 2:42:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi CE, most of what you’ve said went way over my head
but the question I have about ibogaine freebase
instead of HCL is what would be the advantage of using
ibogaine like this?

Has anyone on this list ever done it?

Carla B

— Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com> wrote:

To make HCl into freebase, you dissolve it in water,
basify the solution, then add a non-polar solvent,
agitate, let it settle, then seperate and evaporate
the non-polar solvent.  Repeat the non-polar solvent
mix two more times to make sure you get it all.  It
is very simple, as for how you can use the freebase
and what effects may be different, I don’t know, I
haven’t tried it…  For an idea of which solvent to
use, check extraction guides, because they probably
use one that iboga is very soluble in, I don’t know
right off hand which would be best, but I imagine
ether, naphtha, or any aromatic solvent should work.
Use lye or sodium hydroxide to basify, I imagine a
ph of 11 would be strong enough to turn it to
freebase but I don’t know the exact ph at which the
reaction takes place, so 11 should be safe….
CE

nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:
any feedback on this question yet?

pure curiosity:
is there a recipe of how to make freebase out of
HCl? its easy to do
with cocaine HCl . does ibogaine behaves similar ?
can freebase be
absorbed by the body as well as HCl, since its
probably not water
soluble? please donīt get upset anyone, i wonīt
try to smoke it and i
donīt plan to flood the ghettos with crack
ibogaine (LOL). its trivial
pursuit only. -ekki

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Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: Crooked Eye <iboganaut420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine freebase
Date: March 2, 2005 at 2:37:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To make HCl into freebase, you dissolve it in water, basify the solution, then add a non-polar solvent, agitate, let it settle, then seperate and evaporate the non-polar solvent.  Repeat the non-polar solvent mix two more times to make sure you get it all.  It is very simple, as for how you can use the freebase and what effects may be different, I don’t know, I haven’t tried it…  For an idea of which solvent to use, check extraction guides, because they probably use one that iboga is very soluble in, I don’t know right off hand which would be best, but I imagine ether, naphtha, or any aromatic solvent should work.  Use lye or sodium hydroxide to basify, I imagine a ph of 11 would be strong enough to turn it to freebase but I don’t know the exact ph at which the reaction takes place, so 11 should be safe….
CE

nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:
any feedback on this question yet?

> pure curiosity:
> is there a recipe of how to make freebase out of HCl? its easy to do
> with cocaine HCl . does ibogaine behaves similar ? can freebase be
> absorbed by the body as well as HCl, since its probably not water
> soluble? please donīt get upset anyone, i wonīt try to smoke it and i
> donīt plan to flood the ghettos with crack ibogaine (LOL). its trivial
> pursuit only. -ekki
>
>
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>
>

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Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] enlightenment some body ?
Date: March 2, 2005 at 2:34:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mali, if this was to me, thanks for your opinion
😉 I’ve also found that what you said does apply to
most men 🙂 If all you can create is crap, maybe you
need to do some work on you.

“All men are created equal, but some are more equal
than others” George Orwell.

Love

Carla B

— bm <bmali1@yahoo.com> wrote:

wonders of delete function as per carla . Carla we
are
not worthy of these periodic enlightening
highschoolish girlie love letters (  when all we men
can create is this crap ) . 🙂

=====
” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine
of Hippo
Very bad isn’t dead (“Things can get
worse.”)–Haitian Proverbs
“A truth that’s told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.” William Blake.

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

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__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Depression symptoms in new patients on methadone and bupre…
Date: March 2, 2005 at 2:06:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just to clarilfy:

Suboxone does contain Naloxone but only to stop people injecting it

“Suboxone eliminates the danger of abuse of the opioid component of the medication: administered sublingually, only the buprenorphine is absorbed, but if the patient attempts to inject Suboxone, the opioid antagonist blocks the effect of the buprenorphine.”
—– Original Message —–
From: pigchips
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Depression symptoms in new patients on methadone and bupre…

You can get pure Buprenex:
Suboxone (buprenorphine hydrochloride) is an opiate currently being marketed in the United States for the treatment of opiate addiction.  Similar to opiates such as Methadone, Suboxone are designed as a replacement for injected and snorted opiates such as heroin.  Buprenorphine, a derivative of thebaine, provides pain relief and also produces a narcotic high.
Then there’s Subutex which is a combination of buprenorphine with naloxone, an opiate antagonist, in order to prevent any high or euphoric feeling.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 7:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Depression symptoms in new patients on methadone and bupre…

Something caught my eye in this report. They mention the average dose as being around 48 mgs. or so for Methadone, and 9mg.s for bup. Just what dose is average? Doesn’t it depend on the individual? I know for me, my average dose was as much as I could get, but I was normally at 60 mgs. the last time, and it seemed to hold me if I was prudent. I guess what I’m trying to ask is just where does the dose end? I know at one time in the early 90’s I could take 300 mgs. and go to work, yet 80 mgs. held me. Where does the therapeutic dose end and the con begin? As for bup. maybe I’m just a junkie at heart but I wish they would leave out the naltrexone. It makes me cringe to think that an addict has to take that shit.    Randy

From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: [Ibogaine] pacemaker for the brain
Date: March 2, 2005 at 1:34:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

does anyone know about those stereotaxy pace-makers for the brain that can be used for treating parkinson, alzheimer, depression, anxiety, compulsive disordes etc.? ibogaine seems to help with those diseases, too.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)
Date: March 2, 2005 at 1:09:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Ron 🙂 How are you ?
I read on the Kratom Group on yahho that in New zealand they where doing
some research to help for withdraw and craving. That was few years ago, and
I don’t know if they had any result. It’s like Heantos in Vietnam that was
supposed to be the magical bullet for opium addiction. I can’t find any
recent  news about it .

Peave and love

Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)

i tried it once, in the 60’s.  i recall thinking at the time, what a waste
of time. perhaps someone else  has had a more meaningful experience  to
share with the list. mine was real sleeper and i would never waste time
doing it again. just one man’s experience, nothing more. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)

Does anyone know where to get kratom at a good price …. It seems
almost
or more expensive as heroin when all it is is leafs from a tree

the cheapest i’ve found is at iamshaman.com, $8.99 for an ounce. that’s
enough for about 2 regular doses. i’d advise against the resin extract;
it
never did anything for me. haven’t tried the “premium powder” yet.

j0n

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From: bm <bmali1@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] enlightenment some body ?
Date: March 2, 2005 at 12:01:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wonders of delete function as per carla . Carla we are
not worthy of these periodic enlightening
highschoolish girlie love letters (  when all we men
can create is this crap ) . 🙂

=====
” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine of Hippo
Very bad isn’t dead (“Things can get worse.”)–Haitian Proverbs
“A truth that’s told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent.” William Blake.

__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!’s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “matthew zielinski” <mattzielinski@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 2, 2005 at 11:42:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
Confession is fucken oldchool.  From Anceint egypt to christianity etc  the huichol (sp) indians  also confess before ingesting peyote——
i think it makes sense to a certain point—not in the christian sense where u have to see a priest -confess-only to go back out and do it agian—i think that confesing before taking a sacred comunion eases the pressure on the psyche not to have a bad experience…but the only person i would confess is to my self—-it was i who have erred and it is up to me to learn from these mistakes therefore the confessions becomes a questioning and evalution your past errors– i would  never ever confess to atone for my sins etc —–you cannot atone for anything when 1 you alsays learnin/evolving 2. when you realize that life places you in certain conditions where veracity/morals only become topics of great philosphies..The whole concepts of sin and God in the Christian sense have put so many manacles on peoples hadns that people still believe “God” has a face–is responsible for you—will punish/reward you—-etc  …..I saw “God” when i took Eboga —a boundless pulsating positve energy of LOVE—it was emanating so much Love/light/hapiness/ that i realize only now that we as human beings create “God” “devil” by our actions/emotions/feelings/energy/thoughts…etc….Also i always respected the Romantic writers in their conception of “god” where they say its a supernatural being but rather a creative spirit reasding in beuty/nature

Warmest Regards
MATT

—-Original Message Follows—- From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 22:52:21 -0500 Hi List!! Was reading some stuff on Ibogaine and I found something on the Bwiti credo. Is fascinating for me to find out that they believe thet a full confession is necessary before using Ibogaine : ” In all Bwiti sects, initiation is considered to be a direct contact between man and the Divine and this is triggered by the ingestion of iboga root in large quantities: 50-100 times the quantity used during the ordinary collective ngozé. The person to be initiated must ingest it in repeated small doses within a 8-14 hour time-span. The ingestion of the hallucinogen is preceded by a ritual offering to the forest and to its trees, and also by a confession pronounced before the presiding officiants. The confession concerns the entire past of the individual. According to the Fang people, sins of an antisocial nature are by far the worst. In the event of non-confession of sins, it is thought that the effect of iboga can trigger a “bad trip” with unpredictable consequences, leading to madness or – should the concealed sin be homicide – even to the death of the person being initiated. There is only one confession and it is made once in a lifetime, during the first part of the initiation.” Same principles of AA / NA Where they believe that you cant have a full recovery if you don’t unload the weight of sins ?/! This text is a http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16779 God bless Francis —– Original Message —– From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com To: ibogaine@mindvox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house Summer house is known as ‘GET OFF HOUSE” tHE DOCTOR IS NEBER THERE ABD THEY ARE ALL ABOUT THE $. Lets barage them with e-mails. How dare they trash Ibo when they used to refer patients to Eric taub. Fuck them

Don’t just Search. Find! The new MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy. /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 2, 2005 at 11:28:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyou Julie, and Jim, for your replies.  Just hearing kind words from people cheers me up!  My friend gives me valium and I try to use it as little as possible and I can see how easy it would be just to take it all the time!  I’ve just got tonnes of financial stress and my friend’s just been dumped from a 9yr relationship so is staying here most of each week.  I know its awful for her but I do get sick of hearing it sometimes-it makes my heart bleed more over my own Ex!  And I was clean but then my dealer started giving me freebies and laying me on large amounts-how my financial problems started.  No wonder I’m anxious doing brown and white but does that stop me?!

I saw my Doc and he’s put me on Zopiclone.  I’m to see him in a couple of weeks to see if that’s helped.  He thinks I just need a good nights sleep.  They’re mad, I fall asleep n can’t be woken up and I don’t dream and then I wake bolt upright at some odd hour of the morning!  But I don’t feel groggy and that’s great.  Will I only live on a drugs timetable rather than a natural timetable?!

BTW Jim I’m on the waiting list for a Psychotherapist but its 2yrs!

I’m trying to eat well but I just keep eating chocolate!  I’ve lost a stone cuz I can’t be bothered to cook and aren’t interested in food.  Friends are starting to say I look unhealthily thin.  I do keep thinking about my blood sugar after what you’ve said but I just don’t have a desire for much veg (I eat alot of Veg soup) or food in general.  If I didn’t eat chocolate I’d probably starve!  And its cheap!

Thanks for caring and I do listen!
Love Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 5:31 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.
I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!
Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…
Julie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)
Date: March 2, 2005 at 10:41:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i tried it once, in the 60’s.  i recall thinking at the time, what a waste of time. perhaps someone else  has had a more meaningful experience  to share with the list. mine was real sleeper and i would never waste time doing it again. just one man’s experience, nothing more. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)

Does anyone know where to get kratom at a good price …. It seems almost
or more expensive as heroin when all it is is leafs from a tree

the cheapest i’ve found is at iamshaman.com, $8.99 for an ounce. that’s
enough for about 2 regular doses. i’d advise against the resin extract; it
never did anything for me. haven’t tried the “premium powder” yet.

j0n

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATT:Preston (The Return)
Date: March 2, 2005 at 6:57:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.<

I’m happy to report this story is actually published in a book, Paul Krassner’s Toad Slime to Ecstasy, a collection of drug stories by a huge selection of contributors. Mine is the “heroin” entry.
A real honor for me it is to say this, that Paul Krassner thought enough of the story to write and ask me if he could reprint it after I posted it to some list or other he and I were both subscribed to but which I hadn’t known until he wrote to ask.
That was super cool and made my day that day.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATT:Preston (The Return)

>We are waiting for part two to your story: The Return
An excellent story.
Have you part two? Would love to read it.<

These are third person versions of the same story (manuscript/book) for which The Return is written, Something in the Way. I’m currently putting it all back into first person format, but for now, these are online and you can read them at your leasure. Thanks for the positive feedback Susan, it’s always nice to see someone is enjoying the results of my work.

http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm

Something in the Way- selected chapters
from the unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

—–
Enjoy.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:00 AM
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] ATT:Preston (The Return)

Hello Preston,
We are waiting for part two to your story: The Return
An excellent story.
Have you part two? Would love to read it.
Susan :o)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

Hey Preston,

Mate,..you are a very good story teller.
I felt I was there.

Looking forward to part two.

love,
Jasen.

>
>
>>BTW Can you point me to a good description of heroin withdrawal?<
>
> current chapt. 6 of Somthing in the Way, by Preston Peet
> (I think I Posted this not too long ago here, so some may have already
> read this, but it’s got some fairly descriptive sections dealing with
> withdrawals. Hope it’s what you were interested in Lee.)
>
> The Return
>
> I am not feeling well. As a matter of fact, having been in the air for
> just over nine hours now, it’s been more than twelve since I did my > last
> shot, so I’m getting incredibly sick. I’m still able to operate and
appear
> outwardly normal, but I can tell already that this time the > withdrawals
> are going to be unlike any I’ve gone through yet in my career as a
> strung-out junky and hard core drug abuser.
>
> I’d finished the last of my dope on the tube out to Heathrow airport > in
> London, confident that I’d be able to handle the sickness I knew would
be
> arriving sooner than later. When making my decision to return to the > US
to
> be with my girlfiend, I’d promised her I’d forgo the drugs, the > shooting
> and smoking of hard narcotics. My journey was going to end I was not
sure
> where yet, because the night before on the phone, my girlfiend had
> mentioned going back to school and having to find a place on campus to
> live, miles away from NYC itself. Not the easiest place to score those
> drugs I prefer, she’s made sure to tell me, so I’ve been figuring this
> will only make it easier for me to kick. I’d made to sure to get ahold
of
> at least a score of Valium 10s, which I’m hoping will help soothe the
> pains of miseries of dope sickness, and perhaps ease the worst of the
> withdrawals.
>
> Now the plane has landed in Newark, New Jersey, back in my own country
> after a two year hiatus. I get off the plane and collect my bags. In > my
> shoulder bag, I’m carrying a cassette tape inside of which I’ve filled
> with hashish, good, black soft hash. I’d unscrewed the two halves of > the
> cassette, placed the hash inside, then screwing it shut, gluing a > piece
of
> the cassette tape across the bottom of the cassette to make it appear > to
> be a whole, complete tape. I’ve used this method for carrying hashish
> across many borders over the years, and this time is yet another
> successful smuggling attempt. I’m glad too, as I’m going to need the
hash
> in addition to the Valiums, to medicate myself.
>
> As I pick up my bags, I see a cop come around the corner leading a > drug
> dog, a small beagle, which completely ignores me and my bag. At the
> Customs desk itself, I breeze right through into the land of my birth,
> receiving nothing but friendly greetings and welcomes from the Customs
> officials. This is a first for me, more used to getting at least a > once
> over search if not the complete “strip naked while we throw out all > your
> luggage onto the counter” type searches.
>
> I pass into the main hall of the airport, searching everywhere for my
> girlfiend, eventually spotting her braids bobbing along at most > people’s
> waist level. At four feet, eleven inches tall, she is a tiny but fiery
> woman, with long brown curly hair she wears in dread-like braids. We > hug
> and kiss hello, but something is off. I’m not sure what it is, but
there’s
> a feeling, an energy or vibe coming off her that has me feeling > nervous.
> Rapidly descending into the blackness and depression of full-on dope
> withdrawals, I decide this is what I’m feeling and this alone, so try > to
> put it out of my mind.
>
> Taking the smaller of my two bags, she leads me through the crowded
> airport to catch a bus into the city. I take a deep breath.
>
> “Holy shit, it’s cold!” Beginning of February, the North East US is
> experiencing the coldest Winter in something like 90 years, and I’ve
> landed right smack dab in the middle of it, without any much needed
> heroin. I dig another sweater out of a bag.
>
> We take the bus to Grand Central Station in the middle of Manhattan. > I’m
> beginning to have trouble even moving, the withdrawals leaving me
feeling
> drained, weak, and particularly susceptible to the cold. I get shivers
and
> chills if dope sick even in front of a fireplace, so now I’m feeling > the
> cold down to my bones, and I’m growing ever more miserable. My > girlfiend
> leads me into a diner next door to the station.
>
> “Wait here, I’m going to make a phone call, check the schedule and buy
us
> tickets,” she says, then runs off, leaving me there with just enough
cash
> for a cup of coffee, which I don’t really want. I wait there for > nearly
an
> hour, a foreshadowing of things to come. I get worried eventually,
having
> heard so many stories about how dangerous and violent NYC is, about > all
> the freaks and madmen who make the city their home, who’d all love to
get
> their hands on such a petite beauty as my girlfiend. She finally makes > a
> reappearance.
>
> “I got our tickets, but before we get on the train to White Plains, we
> gotta talk,” she tells me.
>
> “Train tickets? You mean we gotta take another train?”
>
> “And a bus,” she tells me. “Are you listening to me? This is > important.
I
> need to say something to you.”
>
> “Oh great, fucking perfect, here it comes, whatever it is,” I think to
> myself, trying to brace for whatever bad news is coming.
>
> “I have gone ahead and reenrolled in school, so I won’t be going with
you
> to San Francisco,” she says, very business like and cold. “I want you > to
> go on without me. I need to concentrate on my studies and just can’t
> handle you being around to distract me.” She looks away for a moment,
then
> continues. “I almost did a ‘runner’ on you just now, when I went to > get
> the tickets, but decided I do still want to spend some time with you, > at
> least a week or so, before you take off.”
>
> I sit there starting at her without comment for a good few minutes. I > do
> not want to risk opening my mouth and letting her have it right there > in
> the diner. I feel like I might explode and want to keep control, give
> myself a little time to think and catch my breath before responding.
She’d
> mentioned the reenrolling thing on the phone, but that I should still
come
> back to the US and NY, that she missed me and couldn’t wait to see me.
> Now, a little less than 24 hours later, me sick and only wanting to > lie
> down and sleep, or better yet get straight, this is not the best time > or
> place to tell me these details. I feel like she could have said
something
> before I boarded a flight and left my entire life for the previous > year
> behind. At least in London I’d been making decent money, had a > fantastic
> heroin connection, and a roof over my head. Now I have nothing and am
> utterly dependent on this woman for now as I have nothing and have
nowhere
> to get out of the cold but with her.
>
> Suddenly it seems as though she take note for the first time that I am
not
> feeling so well, and jumps to her feet.
>
> “Come on, let’s go catch the train. We’ve got a ways to go yet before > we
> reach the campus.” She snatches up the little bag again and leads the
way
> to the train which will take us to White Plains, where we will catch > yet
> another bus for another 45 minutes ride to Purchase. I’m having > trouble
> focusing on anything, much less sitting upright and being civil. I
> surprise myself by resisting mentioning my desire in the diner, my
> absolute need to cop a bag while we were still in the city, and once
> again, as with my decision not to ask Paul before leaving London, I > soon
> regret my decision to skip the attempt at getting more dope in me. > I’ve
> completely uprooted myself from familiar surroundings, flung myself > into
a
> massive change, determined to make it as difficult as possible for
myself
> it seems.
>
> Outside the train, signs of how cold it is are everywhere. Huge chunks
of
> ice float in the Hudson river, just visible in the moonlight as the
train
> thunders over a bridge, and snow is piled in towering drifts in all
> directions. It was cold in London, but nothing like this. This has to > be
> the coldest I’ve ever been in my entire short life. I’m sitting inside > a
> warm train, bundled into almost every bit of extra clothing I can pull
out
> of my bags, but each time the doors open at a stop, an Arctic blast of
> freezing cold air hits me in my seat. Gazing out the window, all I can
> make out is white, broken occasionally by glittering, pointy ice > sickles
> hanging from every tree, reflecting the lights from the train in
> prismatic, chaotic colors as the train speeds past.
>
> Pulling into White Plains forty minutes later, I’m seriously ailing. > I’m
> not getting sick anymore, I am sick. My girlfiend leads the way to the
bus
> stop, to undertake the forty-five minute bus ride out to SUNY Purchase
> campus. I’m huddled into myself, trying to no avail to get warm. I’m
> freezing inside my bones, and can’t ever remember not being cold. At > the
> same time I’m freezing, I’m sweating profusely, which is freezing to > my
> skin underneath my layered clothing, further torturing me. The bus
finally
> arrives and I climb aboard, thankful to finally be out of the wind.
>
> Shaking hard but doing a fair job of hiding it in the dark of the bus, > I
> shiver under my large wool military coat. I’ve already eaten four of > the
> 12 or so Valium I have, the ones that are supposed to help me get
through
> the worst of the withdrawals. At the rate I’m going through them, I’m
not
> going to have any left by the time I reach the worst of it, if I’m not
> already there, which I sadly, and correctly it later turns out, > suspect
is
> the case. The bus ride feeling twice as long as it really is, we
> eventually reach the campus. I can’t see much except trees, and a > whole
> lot of snow when we disembark, but my girlfiend leads the way into the
> dark and I follow meekly behind. Slipping and sliding along the
ice-coated
> walkway, I can barely keep my feet I’m shaking so hard on the icy
surface.
> I just keeping repeating, mantra-like, “I can make it, I can make it,”
to
> myself as we creep along.
>
> The pathway winds out of the trees into a complex of apartment
buildings.
> My girlfiend turns right at the third building and we climb the stairs
up
> to the second floor, where she knocks on one of the two upper floor
> apartments’ doors, then enters with me close behind, anxious to get in
out
> of the cold.
>
> While on the bus, she had explained to me that she has yet to find
campus
> housing, as she’d enrolled after the semester had already begun, > almost
> two weeks late. She’d had to ask a couple of old acquaintances from > her
> first couple of years at Purchase if she and I may crash for a few > days,
> until we find more permanent housing. The longest resident of the
> apartment, a big guy named Bob, studying criminal justice and aspiring
to
> be a cop, gave his ok until something else comes up. Not having met me
> when he made this decision, it’s obvious he’s having immediate second
> thoughts when laying eyes upon me.
>
> I’m emmatiatedly thin, my face gaunt and drawn from my hard living and
my
> withdrawals. I’ve been living less than a step off the streets, my
clothes
> are a uniform color of gray, and I no doubt stand out in this brightly
> lit, student-filled apartment. There’re a couple of young guys sitting
at
> a table on the far side of the small room, and another couple of guys
> sprawled on the sofa watching tv. Everyone there except me is clean,
fresh
> faced and healthy. I’m introduced to everyone and miss most of the
names,
> then we sit next to the front door on the end of the sofa, so again, > as
on
> the train I’m hit with a blast of freezing Winter air each time the > door
> to the apartment next to me opens and some student comes in or out. > Now
> I’m not wearing my coat though, making it even worse.
>
> By now I am utterly miserable, yet unable to give in and drop to the
floor
> in a heap of quivering shaking flesh. I must grin and bear it for now,
> though I am sure my misery is blatantly obvious to everyone present. I
> make an attempt to hang out to relax, to ignore the nausea and shakes.
The
> two guys sitting next to me make banal small talk that I’m totally
> uninterested in hearing. Bored and sick out of my mind, I pull out the
> hash-filled cassette and ask Bob if he’s got a screwdriver.
>
> I figure there’s no better way to break the ice with college students
than
> by breaking out and smoking hashish with them. All are appreciative > and
> impressed by the taste of, and high from, the hash. After a couple of
> joints, rolled the European way, mixing hash with tobacco, everyone
> relaxes, except me. Even Bob begins to thaw a bit towards me, but I > can
> see in his eyes and demeanor he still has reservations about me.
>
> It’s not much longer before I cannot take anymore socializing. “I’ve > got
> to lay down Bob. Where are we sleeping, please?”
>
> “Hey, no problem,” Bob says as he climbs to his feet. “Help me pull
this.”
> He takes hold of one end of the sofa, chasing those sitting there off
for
> a moment, and he and I pull it away from the wall a few feet. He grabs > a
> mattress leaning against the wall and drops it to the floor behind the
> sofa, right there in the living room where everyone is still making no
> signs to leave. “I hope you don’t mind the lights on,” says Bob with > an
> evil little grin.
> He has no idea that this is still luxury living to me.
>
> Unfortunately, there is steady traffic in and out of the apartment for
> hours, which keeps the Arctic air on me. I’m so sick now that each > move
I
> make makes me want to throw up. My skin is alternately on fire and
> freezing cold, and I can’t stop sweating, soaking the sheet beneath > me.
> The Valiums I’ve so far taken aren’t helping me sleep at all. I can > hear
> snatches of conversations as I drift in and out of lucidity, both from
the
> students and from Oliver Stone’s film, “The Doors,” now playing on the
tv.
> I distinctly hear Jim Morrison tell Pamela to get out and to not > forget
> her heroin. “I won’t” I mumble in my delirium, right there in the film
> with the characters and their drugs.
>
> I lie there for I don’t know how many hours, drifting in my state of
hell.
> Then I’m jerked to full awareness by my girlfiend shaking me.
>
> “Come on, get up, we gotta get out of here,” she says. “Bob needs the
> apartment, ’cause a bunch of people are coming over to study and he
can’t
> have someone tossing and turning and mumbling the whole time behind > his
> sofa. It’s distracting.”
>
> So the room’s been privy to my suffering. I don’t care. I’m feeling > like
> shit, and don’t care less what Bob nor his friends think of me now. > But
> I’ve no choice in the matter, I have to go with her out of the
apartment.
> Before we leave, I have to race to the toilet because my bowels are
loose
> and I have the runs, one of the worst parts of kicking heroin for me.
>
> My girlfiend leads the way through the night, across campus over an
> unending sheet of ice and snow. I just want to lie down, right here in
the
> snow and go nowhere, but I manage to keep to my feet, trudging
grudgingly
> along behind her. It’s snowing hard, making the going a total Eskimo
Hell
> even more slippery than it was earlier, but we eventually arrive at a
> garage-like building, climbing up a narrow metal staircase and > entering
> through what looks like the back door.
>
> We’re now in the cafeteria building, which at night houses the student
> bar, where my girlfiend introduces me to the red haired, heavily
tattooed
> bartender, Mike. I proceed to ask Mike for a pitcher, for myself. I > take
> it to a table where I sit by myself the rest of the long evening,
popping
> one Valium after another until they are all gone, drinking them down
with
> pitcher after pitcher, finishing off four of them almost entirely by
> myself in the three hours we are there at the bar. I’m trying
desperately
> to escape the withdrawals, but it’s no good. I cannot get away from
> myself, so now I’m blind drunk and still completely sick too. We > finally
> leave, thinking it must be late enough that the study session has > ended.
>
> Outside on the ice again I fall repeatedly, my girlfiend bitching and
> snapping at me the entire way. I haven’t stopping thinking all night
what
> an incredibly stupid idea this was, to come back here to the US. My
> girlfiend is acting like a total stranger, completely different from > the
> girl I’d known in London. There she’d been a friendly, compassionate
young
> woman, not this evil troll she’s been since my return. She knows what
I’m
> going through right now, that I’m kicking a very serious,
> over-a-gram-a-day-of-good-heroin habit, because she’d been with me the
> previous six months and gone right through it with me, though not > doing
> nearly the amounts I’ve been doing. She hadn’t done enough for long
enough
> to catch more than a mild chippy, but she’s lived close enough to not
only
> me but many other addicts as well, close enough to know what > withdrawals
> are and how bad they can be. She’s even seen me go through it before > in
> London, though I had a bottle of methadone there to help me get > through
> the bad parts. Now she’s acting like she had no idea that was part of
the
> bargain, that by my coming here I was definitely putting myself
knowingly
> into a situation where I was without question having to go through
kicking
> a heavy dope habit and it was to be with her I was doing it.
>
> Back at Bob’s I drop to the mattress, grateful for the respite from > the
> troll. Sleep will be a blessed relief. With all the Valiums and the
beer,
> I expect to fall asleep no matter how sick I am. For normal people > this
> would be the case, but I’m far from normal when it comes to drugs and
> tolerances to those drugs. All I seem to have accomplished with all > the
> pills and alcohol is to remove my ability to focus my eyes and to give
> myself the spins, on top of being in withdrawals. When I finally do > pass
> out, it’s lightly, fitfully, and nowhere near as deep a sleep as I > need.
>
> I go in and out of dreams, strange and terrible dreams, vision of
shooting
> up, or trying to shoot up but not finding my vein no matter how many
time
> I stick myself, missing the vein when I finally give up and push in > the
> plunger. In one I’ve got the money but can’t find the dealer, then I’m
> running from the person I robbed for the money. Then I’m dreaming I’m > in
> London, back in the squat. In my dream I get up to relieve myself, > using
> one of the old glass milk bottles I keep by the door for just this
> purpose, so I don’t have to go downstairs through the cold building to
the
> only toilet a floor below. There’s something distinctly wrong, but
peeing
> is such a relief I don’t think about it, I just go.
>
> “Hey man, Yo! Get the Fuck Up!”
>
> I bolt upright out of sleep and into a real nightmare. My body feels
like
> it’s going haywire, my muscles jumping and twitching, on fire and
hurting.
> To top if off I’m soaking wet with sweat, and my girlfiend is > shrieking
at
> me.
>
> “You tried to piss in a coke bottle and peed all over the living room
> carpet by the front door, you ass!” She’s beside herself with anger,
> because Bob had come back to one of the back rooms to tell her what > was
> happening. Apparently, I’d suddenly risen to my knees behind the sofa
and,
> paying no attention to Bob and the other people still awake and > studying
> in the room, had grabbed a bottle and begun to pee, all over the > floor,
my
> hands and the wall and door. Then I’d laid back down behind the sofa.
>
> I’d thought that dream was a little too real. Now I’m embarrassed on > top
> of everything else. So much for worrying about my reputation. I don’t
know
> what to do, so I just stand there, until my girlfiend pushes me to the
> restroom and throws some clothes at me.
>
> “Get changed, and I’ll clean up,” she tell me as she slams the door in
my
> face. After I change, I go back out to the living room where Bob and > my
> girlfiend are now the only ones in the room.
>
> “I’m sorry, jetlag you know,” I try to explain, but Bob just waves me
off.
>
> “Don’t worry about it,” he grunts at me.
>
> I lay back down on the now clean mattress, and with my legs and arms
> pulled up under my body to keep the muscles from kicking, I finally > fall
> back into a restless sleep. In the morning no one says anything to me > so
I
> stay under the blankets, shivering and shaking and trying not to moan
out
> loud, delirious but in enough control to manage remaining quiet while
> feeling like hell. The day slowly turns into night then back into day.
As
> soon as it is light out, I wake my girlfiend and tell her to give me > the
> 50 pound note I’d given her in London to bring with her to the States
for
> me. She doesn’t want to, arguing with me for a while but I prevail,
> telling her I’m only going to go to White Plains and exchange it into
> dollars. After she leaves for the first class of the day, I ask around
the
> apartment for directions, asking where to go in NYC to buy weed.
>
> “I can get you excellent pot here,” Bob tells me. “Why go all the way > to
> the city when you can get it here?” He’s giving me a funny look.
>
> “I’ve never been to NYC before,” I tell him. “I want to do this for > the
> adventure.” It sounds kind of lame when I say it, but do I really care
> what this fat cop-wannabe thinks? No, I don’t. The real reason I want > to
> know where to buy pot is because I think the people selling pot on the
> streets more likely than not know where I can score some heroin. One > of
> the benefits of prohibition is the mingling of drugs, harmless pot > sold
> alongside hardcore powders.
>
> “Washington Square Park is where the pot is. Go there and ask around,
> someone will know someone who has it. You’ll know who to ask, you’ll
see.”
>
> “Thanks,” I say as I go out the door. I catch the bus to White Plains
and
> exchange the money, then take a train to Manhattan. At Grand Central
> Station I ask how to get downtown to somewhere near Washington Square,
and
> end up exiting the subway at Astor Place. I ask for directions, then
head
> towards the park, until I spot an older black guy, sitting in the > garden
> of an apartment building smoking what looks exactly like a joint.
>
> “Hey, excuse me.” I walk right up to the guy. “I’m not a cop. I am
really
> dope sick. I just got here from London and need to buy some heroin.
Where
> do I get it? Washington Square?” I figure if anyone knows it’s going > to
be
> this obviously homeless guy, sitting here smoking pot with a bunch of
bags
> strewn around him.
>
> “No way man, avoid that park like the plague,” he barks. “Those boys
will
> rip you off in a second. Head over to Alphabet City man, Aves. C and > D,
> and Fourth Street. Not this neighborhood. Head East,” The old man
points,
> “into the Lower East Side.”
>
> Thanking him I head the direction he pointed, taking Broadway to > Fourth
> Street, then take a left towards the East Side. It’s one of the > coldest
> Winters NYC had experienced in a hundred years. I’ve heard students at
> Purchase say this more than once and believe it. The sidewalks are
almost
> completely iced over. There are snow banks along each side of Fourth
St.,
> under which I can just make out the occasional tire or bumper. I hold > my
> coat closed with my arms folded across my chest, my eyes looking down > as
I
> slither my way East. Each block seems a mile long, the ice and
continuing
> withdrawals sapping what little strength I have left. I force myself > to
go
> on. Reaching Ave B. I turn right, and begin spotting signs that lead > me
to
> think I must be getting close. Dilapidated buildings and shady
characters
> began to take precedence, no more nice, well kept buildings and
sidewalks
> here. At the Corner of Second St and Ave. B I spot two guys across the
> street, leaning against the wall drinking beer, one black guy and a
> Hispanic cat. Taking a deep breath, I cross over.
>
> “Hey, excuse me,” I start again. “I’m not a cop, but I am really very
dope
> sick. I just got here from London and need to cop a bag of gear. Do > you
> know anywhere? Someone else directed me this far, but now I need a
little
> help. I know this is forward, but I don’t know anyone so I have to > ask.”
>
> The Hispanic guy looks at me like I’m crazy then turns and walks away
> without a word. The black guy stays.
>
> “How ‘about some Silver Bullet?” he asks.
>
> “What?” I think it’s some kind of threat at first, some kind of NYC
slang
> I’ve never heard before.
>
> “Dope m’man, it’s a brand name. Come on. This way.”
>
> I follow him further south along Ave. B, then Clinton, what Ave. B
becomes
> after crossing south of Houston. Almost everyone passing on the walk > is
> speaking Spanish. We walk another three blocks, until my guide points > up
a
> single flight of stairs to a landing where stands a young man wearing > a
> ski mask and bulky jacket. I check out the mask, then turn back to my
> guide, but the guy is already walking away, not waiting for a thank > you
or
> a goodbye. I turn back to the figure at the top of the step.
>
> “How many?” the kid asks.
>
> “Just one,” I tell him, holding out my only $10 bill. Taking the > plastic
> rectangle offered, I have no way of knowing if this is real or not. I
have
> to trust that it is, that I haven’t been ripped off. Now to find a
needle.
> I only have a few more dollars and my return ticket to Purchase. Fifty
> pound didn’t convert to that many dollars, just enough to get me to > the
> city and back and to buy one $10 bag. I walk back over to Houston St.,
> searching for anyone who might know where I can buy a rig. The first
> person I ask laughs at me.
>
> “Why would you buy one when you can go around the corner to the > Exchange
> and get one for free?” he asks. “Ave C. and 4th St.” he tells me,
pointing
> up the street behind me. I’m feeling like I’ve already walked miles,
much
> further than I ever would while feeling healthy, much less while as > sick
> as I am now. There’s no alternative but to continue on, so I do,
slogging
> through the cold and wind. I reach Ave. C and turn left, heading North
> again, looking for a place that looks like a needle exchange. Back in
> Amsterdam the Exchange I’d used was mainly a hole in a door through
which
> I’d hand my used sets and receive new ones. In Atlanta, where I was
living
> before heading to the Nederlands, I’d simply walk into a particular
> pharmacy and buy a 10-pack of 1cc Insulin syringes. I didn’t know > needle
> exchanges even existed in the US. I eventually see a spot, a > storefront
> from which issue a steady stream of lowlife types, so I figure,
correctly
> as it turns out, that it must be the place.
>
> Just inside the door to the left is a table under which sits a huge > tub,
> into which clients drop their used rigs before claiming new ones from
the
> volunteer behind the tub. Further down the line sit plastic baggies
filled
> with all the accoutrements need to prepare a shot-plastic bags with
> cookers, cotton, alcohol and bleach-as well as literature about how to
> protect oneself from disease and bad drugs.
>
> “Ever been here before?” A voice stops me as I make a move towards the
> table. “You gotta sign in first.” All I want to do it get my needle > and
go
> get straight, but I keep my cool. It can’t take that long. “It’ll only
> take a moment to register,” says the man speaking to me from behind
> another table to the right of entering the door.
>
> “Let’s get it over with. I’m sick as a dog and have to get straight as
> soon as I can,” I tell the guy. My stomach is churning. This is often
the
> very worst time for any heroin addict, the time between scoring and
> actually getting my drugs inside me, especially since I shoot most of > my
> drugs, I rarely smoke or sniff them any more. I’m hunched over,
clutching
> my abdomen tightly, trying to get warm and not shit my pants. The guy
> takes my details, prints and laminates an Exchange card that is > supposed
> to protect me from arrest for possession of a hypodermic instrument. I
ask
> him about the local dope, whether I need lemon juice or not to melt > down
> my heroin.
>
> “No, no lemon juice, but listen, be extra careful pushing the shot in,
> because some of the dope around here is very strong,” he tells me as > he
> hands me my brand new needle exchange card.
>
> “Thank God,” I think to myself. “I hope to hell the dope’s incredibly
> fucking strong, you moron.” I leave the Exchange, skating West, > sliding
> along the icy sidewalk as fast as I can go, looking for a bar or
> restaurant, anywhere I can go to get in out of the public eye and
finally
> get straight. I still haven’t found a good place when I reach Ave. A.
> There I spot a likely looking little bar called Psycho Mongo, a
veritable
> hole in the wall. Going in I order a soda and ask where the toilet is. > I
> have just enough cash for a drink, then go to the restroom.
>
> Closing the door, I find the toilet is lit with a black light, > something
I
> discover later a lot of the bars do to discourage just this sort of
> activity. It doesn’t stop or even slow me down. I tear open the > plastic
> packet, pulling out the wax envelope inside, which I in turn tear open
as
> well. I’m shaking so hard I almost spill it everywhere when trying to
pour
> out the contents into my cooker, but luckily manage ok. I look at the
> heroin in the bottom of the cooker, but in this light I can’t make out
> what color it is, or even how much there is. It sure doesn’t look like
> much. I’m used to doing quarter gram shots at a time, and this is
> definitely a lot less than that, not more than a tenth of a gram at
most.
> I don’t care, so long as it’s real. I dab my finger at the edge of the
> small pile of drugs, putting it to the tip of my tongue to taste. The
> bitter taste tells me right away that it is real, though how cut with
> filler I can’t tell from just tasting. It doesn’t matter at this > point.
I
> quickly mix in the water and heat it with my lighter. One thing that
makes
> this easier than in London is that I don’t need lemon juice, the dope
> melts into the water without it, just like the guy back at the > Exchange
> explained it to me. I drop a small piece of rolled up cotton into the
> mixture, draw it up into my rig, then take my left arm out of my > jacket
> and sweater sleeves. Using the now empty sweater sleeve to tie off > just
> above my elbow, I feel for the vein in the dark, placing the tip of > the
> needle to the place I can feel with my fingertip. A quick jab, a > slight
> pull on the plunger to get blood into the rig, to be sure I’ve hit ok,
> then I shove it in as fast as I can push. Loosening the sweater > quickly,
> to avoid blowing my vein, I sit down on the toilet and heave a sigh of
> relief.
>
> I can feel it coursing through my body, the heroin unclenching and
> untwisting the knots in my muscles. The rush stops short of what I’d
> really like, but that’s to be expected. My drugs are seldom as strong > as
I
> really would like them to be. I rarely get what I want out of my > drugs,
> just like out of the rest of my life. If I put as much energy into
living
> as I do into my drugging, I could probably accomplish something.
>
> I shake of these melancholy feelings, happy to finally be straight. I
> don’t think about later, because that’ll just depress me again. I’m > not
as
> fucked up as I’d like, but I’m no longer feeling sick, at least until
> tomorrow but that’s just some other time, to quote Lou Reed.
>
> When I return to Purchase, I still feeling good. I hope my pupils > aren’t
> too noticeably pinned. I know my eyes are a dead giveaway to anyone > who
> knows me or about dope at all, so therefore try to avoid eye contact > for
> the rest of the evening. I hang out making small talk with various
> students in the living room, until it’s just me, Bob and my girlfiend
> left. Bob keeps watching me with a glint in his eye, obviously > wondering
> about something. While discussing my adventures that day in the city, > I
> mention having seen some really far out sculptures while walking up > Ave
B.
> in Alphabet City, Bob’s face registers a thought that he doesn’t > express
> aloud. He just nods to himself as though I’ve confirmed something to
him.
> I’m not even really sure I see the nod it passes so fast.
>
> Before retiring for the night, I grab the paper bag in which I’m
carrying
> all my rigs and equipment, going into the bathroom to finish the tiny
> amount of dope I have left in the bag. Then I go to bed.
>
> The next day I go back into White Plains with my girlfiend, who is mad
> that I went into the city and bought dope, more mad that I didn’t > share
> any with her. I’ll never please this woman I think. I’m able to move
> around today without wanting to throw up the whole time, but I’m still
> quite ill. Still unable to get any sleep at night, I toss and turn, > the
> kicking feeling worst when lying down. The girlfiend has taken to
kicking
> and hitting me throughout the night, telling me to “keep the fuck > still”
> and other loving niceties. I’m tired and cranky and would rather
remained
> lying on the floor at least one more day on campus before venturing > out
on
> another adventure.
>
> We aimlessly wander around downtown White Plains for a while, making a
> half-hearted attempt to find some dope to no avail. Giving up finally,
we
> board the bus back to Purchase. We get in to Bob’s right away, just
> beating a new snow storm.
>
> A few minutes after entering, Bob comes out of his bedroom and asks > the
> girlfiend to come talk with him in his room, alone, right away. I sit
down
> on the mattress behind the sofa as she walks off with Bob to the back > of
> the apartment. Lifting my duffle bag, I notice it’s open, and I could
> swear I’d closed it before we left, sure of it because the paper bag
> containing my rigs is in there. I’m suddenly sure what Bob is talking > to
> the girlfiend about. I don’t want to believe it, but my stomach
> immediately drops. I know exactly what Bob thinks of heroin and those
who
> use it, particularly “shooters” as Bob had referred to another old
> acquaintance of his and my girlfiend. If this is what the problem is
> though, why is Bob discussing it with my girlfiend and not me?
>
> “This is not good,” I think as I change my clothes. The minutes drag > by
> and still no girlfiend. I am about to go knock on the door and ask
what’s
> up when she finally appears, her face drawn and tight, red with anger.
>
> “Come on, we’ve gotta go talk somewhere,” she barks as she grabs her > own
> jacket and heads out the door. “Grab your fucking jacket and let’s > go!”
>
> Embarrassed now, and still not entirely sure of what’s happening, I do
as
> she says, following her out into the snow storm currently dropping
another
> foot of snow on the campus.
>
> “Bob doesn’t want you staying in the apartment any more,” she tells me
as
> we work out way through the wind. “He says that if I want to I can > stay,
> but you have to go, now, tonight.” She’s angry, and I’m glad to see > she
> angrier at Bob than at me. “I told him you were kicking, and had come
here
> expressly to do so, but he doesn’t care. He says that when moving our
> stuff around while cleaning up the apartment today, that paper bag > with
> you rigs fell out on the floor. So they took a look inside it, and now
he
> wants you gone. He doesn’t care that you’re quitting and doesn’t > believe
> it anyway. He says he saw you going into the bathroom with the bag > last
> night. Why, if you’re quitting, did you do that, he asked me. So you
have
> to go tonight.”
>
> The wind is brutal, blowing the snow directly at them from all
directions,
> making us both extremely uncomfortable and very aware of the immediate
> problem at hand. Where am I going to sleep tonight? And the next > night,
> and the night after? I don’t know anyone on campus except my > girlfiend,
> other than for those I’ve met at Bob’s. I have already garnered that
> reputation I’ve been so concerned about up to now.
>
> “Let’s go to the library,” she says, grabbing my hand. She leads and I
> follow, lost in thought, once more trying to not panic and get angry > at
> things I cannot control, nor change now.
>
> This wasn’t how I’d envisioned my return to the US. I’d more imagined
that
> I’d meet up with my girlfiend, stay wherever it was that she’d have
found
> for us in the four days she’d had prior to my own return, and that I’d
lay
> up in bed kicking in peace and quiet before having to tackle any of
life’s
> other complications. But my best laid plans are often for naught.
Somehow
> I’m now facing sleeping out in the cold and snow, only my third night
back
> in the States. I have no money, no friends, no place to crash. “What > in
> the hell am I doing back here?” I wonder silently. It’s difficult not > to
> give in to major regrets. If I could turn around and go back to London
I’d
> do it in a heartbeat. I’d tuck my tail between my legs and take off
> running, admitting defeat. I’ve got nowhere to run though, nowhere to > go
> to get away from my troubles, to escape, so I have to tough it out. I
feel
> damned.
>
> We continue toward the library, walking into the wind the entire way, > my
> tears of frustration mingling with those torn from my eyes by the > wind.
We
> find the library open and almost deserted. Who would bother heading > out
in
> this weather anyway? We make our way downstairs, to a long row of
> closet-like cubicles, where we can find a bit of privacy. My girlfiend
> steps into one, throws all her stuff on the floor within, then tells > me
to
> wait there for a minute. I ease myself onto the floor and cover up > with
my
> jacket. I can’t believe this is happening to me.
>
> I’m almost asleep when she returns, carrying an armload of oversized
> atlases, encyclopedias, and other large books, which she stacks up in
> front of the cubicle window.
>
> “I used to come sleep in here my first year at Purchase,” she tells > me,
> “to get away from everyone, to kind of hide out and get my bearings. > We
> should be ok here until closing time at least.”
>
> “Great. Then what?” I wonder to myself, but don’t voice my concerns.
> There’s no reason to piss her off at this point. But am I supposed to
live
> in the library? “Phantom of the Library” passes through my mind, and I
> giggle out loud. I picture myself lurking about the library shelves,
> hiding from staff and students, stealing bag lunches and such, and
really
> start to laugh out loud. She turns to me with a “shh” but I can’t help
> myself and keep laughing. The ridiculousness of my situation has me in
> hysterics. She starts to laugh along with me, not knowing what she’s
> laughing about but enjoying the release of tension none the less. We > sit
> there on the floor, laughing together until we’re almost weeping.
>
> Once we regain control, we curl up together in the corner under the > desk
> inside the cubicle, trying to be as quiet as possible, although that’s
> probably useless considering the laughter we’ve been doing the past > few
> minutes. As I try to lie still, my muscles once again begin to kick, > and
I
> start rolling around, unable to keep still for more than a couple of
> seconds. This drives my girlfiend crazy, right back into her “ultra
bitch”
> state.
>
> “Keep the fuck still!” She orders, punching me a couple of times to > let
me
> know she means it. I loose my temper in return, telling her to “leave
off
> and shut the fuck up.” Pissed off and hateful, we both eventually pass
> out.
>
> Hours later, she shakes me awake. “Get your stuff, we gotta get out of
> here.” There’s no one else in the library now other than the librarian
at
> the front desk, who gives us the eye as we exit the building. She > walks
us
> over to the computer building, where we find an open classroom. She
tells
> me to sleep in here for the rest of the night, and tomorrow we’ll come
up
> with something else.
>
> “Wait a minute,” I say. “Why am I putting myself through this? This is
> crazy. I’m out of here tomorrow.”
>
> “What do you mean, you’re ‘outta here’?” she asks, suddenly quiet.
>
> “I mean, I’m out of here. We were supposed to be going to California
> together, remember? Well, I’m sick of this shit here. I’m going, first
> thing tomorrow.” I’m adamant. I don’t care if it is the middle of
Winter,
> I can’t take this hell I’ve landed in. I’ve been told many time by > many
> different folk that San Francisco is my Mecca, that I’d thoroughly > enjoy
> that city and would fit right in.
>
> “Are you nuts?” She asks. “How are you going to get there?”
>
> “I’ll hitchhike. What do you care anyway?” I glare at her. She’s the
> reason I’m here having all these problems, I think to myself,
conveniently
> forgetting it was my decision to come back to the States, that no one,
not
> even my girlfiend, put a gun to my head and forced me to undertake > this
> misadventure.
>
> “It’s the middle of Winter and you’re sick,” she says. “Besides, I > don’t
> want you to leave yet, I love you. Wait until Spring at least, when > the
> weather is nicer. Then go.”
>
> I can’t believe I’ve just heard this correctly. I stand there > speechless
> for a minute or two, staring at her with my mouth ajar. Then I let my
> shoulders slump and shake my head.
>
> “Get out of here,” I tell her. “I’ll see you in the morning, right?”
>
> “Yeah, sure. Don’t do anything stupid, like leave campus without > telling
> me, ok?”
>
> “Sure,” I answer. I turn my back as she leaves, then lie down on the
floor
> under yet another desk, hopefully out of view of anyone or any guards
> passing in the hallway outside the classroom. There’s an entire > security
> force of guards that patrol the campus, but if any pass that night I’m
> totally unaware of them.
>
> I wake early the next morning when the lights suddenly go on. Someone
> enters the room with a cacophony of clattering and clanking. Rolling
over,
> I climb to my feet to confront a wide-eyed and very surprised janitor.
>
> “Hi there and good morning,” I tell him before bending back down to > grab
> my stuff, then head out the door.
>
> The dope sickness still has not passed, though I am getting stronger > and
a
> wee bit better. Still, I’m miserable and depressed. There has to be > some
> way to get some relief. My mind is focused entirely on this thought. > My
> girlfiend has some class very early this morning, so I won’t see her > for
a
> couple more hours. I don’t know why she didn’t wake me before going to
> class. Even with all the anger and the hitting, she’s the only friend > I
> have right now. We’ve been in a relationship for just over six months > at
> this point. To my perspective, we’ve got some history to our
relationship,
> so I’m loath to give up just like that.
>
> I’m not stopping to wonder about it. I have come up with a plan, and > I’m
> glad she is in class because I don’t think she’d like this one. I walk
to
> the campus store. It’s mostly empty of students, and the clerk is busy
> reading a magazine when I enter. She says, “Good morning” when I enter
and
> then ignores me, burying her face back in the glossy pages of the
fashion
> rag she’s reading. I’m not sure if they’re going to have what I’m
looking
> for, but sure enough, at the very back of the store, in one of the > only
> places out of the clerk’s line of sight, there sits all the cold
> medicines. Without checking to be sure no one is watching, I reach > out,
> grab a box of Nyquil Cold Medicine capsules, put it in my jacket > pocket,
> then go to the counter and order a cup of coffee. I can afford that,
even
> if I have to steal the cold medicine.
>
> Nyquil has something or other in it that helps people sleep, so I > figure
> that perhaps it’ll help me my body’s muscles settle down somewhat. I > go
> back to the still deserted library to find a quiet spot to carry out > my
> plan. Going downstairs, I enter the bathroom and lock myself into a > stal
l.
> I take out my paper bag containing all my works and equipment, then > open
> up the box of Nyquil. Laying everything out on the lid of the toilet, > I
> then open the box, ripping a couple of the green gel caps inside from
> their wrapping. They feel so soft and fragile when I squeeze them
between
> thumb and forefinger, but when I try to break one open, the outer > shell
> doesn’t do anything other than bend inwards without breaking. “Great,
now
> what?” I think to myself in frustration. I’ve got my mind set on doing
> this and am not about to just give up. I root around in my duffle bag
for
> a moment until I find a razor blade. Holding one of the gel caps > steady
> between my fingers on the toilet seat lid and proceed to try and cut > it
> open. It seems for a moment this too won’t work, but then it gives. > The
> blade cuts almost all the way through the gel cap, causing me to > almost
> loose the contents all over the lid of the toilet, but I save it.
Picking
> up both halves, I pour the contents into my cooker, the repeat the
process
> with a couple more gel caps. I then add about ten mils of water to the
goo
> in my cooker. Then I heat it, stirring with the back of my rig, > heating
> and reheating and adding teeny amounts of water, trying to dilute the
gook
> in the cooker. I finally decide it’s as ready as it’s ever going to > be,
> then drop a small piece of cotton into the mix. Taking a set, I draw > the
> pink, gooey muck up into my rig. It takes a long time, and I look at > the
> end results a bit dubiously. It resembles nothing so much as hair gel
now,
> and I hesitate.
>
> “What the hell, it’s already in my set.” I think to myself, then tie
off.
> I find the vein quickly and boot it in. After untying and sitting > back,
my
> ears begin to ring a bit and my chest has a localized ache right about
> where I figure my heart must be, dead center of my chest. I don’t feel
> much of anything beyond this slight discomfort. This isn’t working as
I’d
> hoped, so I forego a second try. I eat two of the gel caps instead of
> banging them, thinking that since I have them I may as well, that
perhaps
> they’ll work better orally as they’re meant to be taken. I start to > get
> jittery, then realize way too late that the Nyquil has pseudoephedrine
in
> it, which is only increasing the sensations of kicking instead of > muting
> them. Shit, yet another mistake on my part.
>
> I walk out of the library into a crisp, bright Winter morning and sit > on
a
> bench in the cold, holding my head in my gloved hands, hoping the cold
air
> will nullify my discomfort but it’s no good. I spend the morning in > and
> out of the restroom throwing up, generally miserable and hating myself
and
> my life.
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ATT:Preston (The Return)
Date: March 2, 2005 at 6:35:14 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We are waiting for part two to your story: The Return
An excellent story.
Have you part two? Would love to read it.<

These are third person versions of the same story (manuscript/book) for which The Return is written, Something in the Way. I’m currently putting it all back into first person format, but for now, these are online and you can read them at your leasure. Thanks for the positive feedback Susan, it’s always nice to see someone is enjoying the results of my work.

http://www.drugwar.com/somethingintheway.shtm

Something in the Way- selected chapters
from the unpublished novel by Preston Peet about one rebel junky living life on the farthest edges on city streets both sides of the Atlantic, strung out and struggling day to day to survive and supply his ever increase habit.

Central Park Schizo
In which Thoms makes the move to Central Park, learning the ropes while sustaining his career as street bound junky, living in the park and sinking into the darker realms of cocaine abuse.

Winter Hole
In which the heroic New York City Fire Department comes crashing into Thomas’ safe haven and saves him from discovery by forces of the law.

Narcan- Bringing the Dead Back to Life
In which a friend overdoses on the floor on a local resturant but is revived.

Jocko
In which Thomas sells fake drugs to the wrong guy.

Out of Action
Thomas checks into the hospital in serious risk of losing his arm.

Spit on the Floor- thankful and lucky to be alive
Thomas fades away, then fades back in again.

Outburst- a New Years Tale
Thomas burns some bridges in Rotterdam.

—–
Enjoy.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:00 AM
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] ATT:Preston (The Return)

Hello Preston,
We are waiting for part two to your story: The Return
An excellent story.
Have you part two? Would love to read it.
Susan :o)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

Hey Preston,

Mate,..you are a very good story teller.
I felt I was there.

Looking forward to part two.

love,
Jasen.

>
>
>>BTW Can you point me to a good description of heroin withdrawal?<
>
> current chapt. 6 of Somthing in the Way, by Preston Peet
> (I think I Posted this not too long ago here, so some may have already
> read this, but it’s got some fairly descriptive sections dealing with
> withdrawals. Hope it’s what you were interested in Lee.)
>
> The Return
>
> I am not feeling well. As a matter of fact, having been in the air for
> just over nine hours now, it’s been more than twelve since I did my > last
> shot, so I’m getting incredibly sick. I’m still able to operate and
appear
> outwardly normal, but I can tell already that this time the withdrawals
> are going to be unlike any I’ve gone through yet in my career as a
> strung-out junky and hard core drug abuser.
>
> I’d finished the last of my dope on the tube out to Heathrow airport in
> London, confident that I’d be able to handle the sickness I knew would
be
> arriving sooner than later. When making my decision to return to the US
to
> be with my girlfiend, I’d promised her I’d forgo the drugs, the > shooting
> and smoking of hard narcotics. My journey was going to end I was not
sure
> where yet, because the night before on the phone, my girlfiend had
> mentioned going back to school and having to find a place on campus to
> live, miles away from NYC itself. Not the easiest place to score those
> drugs I prefer, she’s made sure to tell me, so I’ve been figuring this
> will only make it easier for me to kick. I’d made to sure to get ahold
of
> at least a score of Valium 10s, which I’m hoping will help soothe the
> pains of miseries of dope sickness, and perhaps ease the worst of the
> withdrawals.
>
> Now the plane has landed in Newark, New Jersey, back in my own country
> after a two year hiatus. I get off the plane and collect my bags. In my
> shoulder bag, I’m carrying a cassette tape inside of which I’ve filled
> with hashish, good, black soft hash. I’d unscrewed the two halves of > the
> cassette, placed the hash inside, then screwing it shut, gluing a piece
of
> the cassette tape across the bottom of the cassette to make it appear > to
> be a whole, complete tape. I’ve used this method for carrying hashish
> across many borders over the years, and this time is yet another
> successful smuggling attempt. I’m glad too, as I’m going to need the
hash
> in addition to the Valiums, to medicate myself.
>
> As I pick up my bags, I see a cop come around the corner leading a drug
> dog, a small beagle, which completely ignores me and my bag. At the
> Customs desk itself, I breeze right through into the land of my birth,
> receiving nothing but friendly greetings and welcomes from the Customs
> officials. This is a first for me, more used to getting at least a once
> over search if not the complete “strip naked while we throw out all > your
> luggage onto the counter” type searches.
>
> I pass into the main hall of the airport, searching everywhere for my
> girlfiend, eventually spotting her braids bobbing along at most > people’s
> waist level. At four feet, eleven inches tall, she is a tiny but fiery
> woman, with long brown curly hair she wears in dread-like braids. We > hug
> and kiss hello, but something is off. I’m not sure what it is, but
there’s
> a feeling, an energy or vibe coming off her that has me feeling > nervous.
> Rapidly descending into the blackness and depression of full-on dope
> withdrawals, I decide this is what I’m feeling and this alone, so try > to
> put it out of my mind.
>
> Taking the smaller of my two bags, she leads me through the crowded
> airport to catch a bus into the city. I take a deep breath.
>
> “Holy shit, it’s cold!” Beginning of February, the North East US is
> experiencing the coldest Winter in something like 90 years, and I’ve
> landed right smack dab in the middle of it, without any much needed
> heroin. I dig another sweater out of a bag.
>
> We take the bus to Grand Central Station in the middle of Manhattan. > I’m
> beginning to have trouble even moving, the withdrawals leaving me
feeling
> drained, weak, and particularly susceptible to the cold. I get shivers
and
> chills if dope sick even in front of a fireplace, so now I’m feeling > the
> cold down to my bones, and I’m growing ever more miserable. My > girlfiend
> leads me into a diner next door to the station.
>
> “Wait here, I’m going to make a phone call, check the schedule and buy
us
> tickets,” she says, then runs off, leaving me there with just enough
cash
> for a cup of coffee, which I don’t really want. I wait there for nearly
an
> hour, a foreshadowing of things to come. I get worried eventually,
having
> heard so many stories about how dangerous and violent NYC is, about all
> the freaks and madmen who make the city their home, who’d all love to
get
> their hands on such a petite beauty as my girlfiend. She finally makes > a
> reappearance.
>
> “I got our tickets, but before we get on the train to White Plains, we
> gotta talk,” she tells me.
>
> “Train tickets? You mean we gotta take another train?”
>
> “And a bus,” she tells me. “Are you listening to me? This is important.
I
> need to say something to you.”
>
> “Oh great, fucking perfect, here it comes, whatever it is,” I think to
> myself, trying to brace for whatever bad news is coming.
>
> “I have gone ahead and reenrolled in school, so I won’t be going with
you
> to San Francisco,” she says, very business like and cold. “I want you > to
> go on without me. I need to concentrate on my studies and just can’t
> handle you being around to distract me.” She looks away for a moment,
then
> continues. “I almost did a ‘runner’ on you just now, when I went to get
> the tickets, but decided I do still want to spend some time with you, > at
> least a week or so, before you take off.”
>
> I sit there starting at her without comment for a good few minutes. I > do
> not want to risk opening my mouth and letting her have it right there > in
> the diner. I feel like I might explode and want to keep control, give
> myself a little time to think and catch my breath before responding.
She’d
> mentioned the reenrolling thing on the phone, but that I should still
come
> back to the US and NY, that she missed me and couldn’t wait to see me.
> Now, a little less than 24 hours later, me sick and only wanting to lie
> down and sleep, or better yet get straight, this is not the best time > or
> place to tell me these details. I feel like she could have said
something
> before I boarded a flight and left my entire life for the previous year
> behind. At least in London I’d been making decent money, had a > fantastic
> heroin connection, and a roof over my head. Now I have nothing and am
> utterly dependent on this woman for now as I have nothing and have
nowhere
> to get out of the cold but with her.
>
> Suddenly it seems as though she take note for the first time that I am
not
> feeling so well, and jumps to her feet.
>
> “Come on, let’s go catch the train. We’ve got a ways to go yet before > we
> reach the campus.” She snatches up the little bag again and leads the
way
> to the train which will take us to White Plains, where we will catch > yet
> another bus for another 45 minutes ride to Purchase. I’m having trouble
> focusing on anything, much less sitting upright and being civil. I
> surprise myself by resisting mentioning my desire in the diner, my
> absolute need to cop a bag while we were still in the city, and once
> again, as with my decision not to ask Paul before leaving London, I > soon
> regret my decision to skip the attempt at getting more dope in me. I’ve
> completely uprooted myself from familiar surroundings, flung myself > into
a
> massive change, determined to make it as difficult as possible for
myself
> it seems.
>
> Outside the train, signs of how cold it is are everywhere. Huge chunks
of
> ice float in the Hudson river, just visible in the moonlight as the
train
> thunders over a bridge, and snow is piled in towering drifts in all
> directions. It was cold in London, but nothing like this. This has to > be
> the coldest I’ve ever been in my entire short life. I’m sitting inside > a
> warm train, bundled into almost every bit of extra clothing I can pull
out
> of my bags, but each time the doors open at a stop, an Arctic blast of
> freezing cold air hits me in my seat. Gazing out the window, all I can
> make out is white, broken occasionally by glittering, pointy ice > sickles
> hanging from every tree, reflecting the lights from the train in
> prismatic, chaotic colors as the train speeds past.
>
> Pulling into White Plains forty minutes later, I’m seriously ailing. > I’m
> not getting sick anymore, I am sick. My girlfiend leads the way to the
bus
> stop, to undertake the forty-five minute bus ride out to SUNY Purchase
> campus. I’m huddled into myself, trying to no avail to get warm. I’m
> freezing inside my bones, and can’t ever remember not being cold. At > the
> same time I’m freezing, I’m sweating profusely, which is freezing to my
> skin underneath my layered clothing, further torturing me. The bus
finally
> arrives and I climb aboard, thankful to finally be out of the wind.
>
> Shaking hard but doing a fair job of hiding it in the dark of the bus, > I
> shiver under my large wool military coat. I’ve already eaten four of > the
> 12 or so Valium I have, the ones that are supposed to help me get
through
> the worst of the withdrawals. At the rate I’m going through them, I’m
not
> going to have any left by the time I reach the worst of it, if I’m not
> already there, which I sadly, and correctly it later turns out, suspect
is
> the case. The bus ride feeling twice as long as it really is, we
> eventually reach the campus. I can’t see much except trees, and a whole
> lot of snow when we disembark, but my girlfiend leads the way into the
> dark and I follow meekly behind. Slipping and sliding along the
ice-coated
> walkway, I can barely keep my feet I’m shaking so hard on the icy
surface.
> I just keeping repeating, mantra-like, “I can make it, I can make it,”
to
> myself as we creep along.
>
> The pathway winds out of the trees into a complex of apartment
buildings.
> My girlfiend turns right at the third building and we climb the stairs
up
> to the second floor, where she knocks on one of the two upper floor
> apartments’ doors, then enters with me close behind, anxious to get in
out
> of the cold.
>
> While on the bus, she had explained to me that she has yet to find
campus
> housing, as she’d enrolled after the semester had already begun, almost
> two weeks late. She’d had to ask a couple of old acquaintances from her
> first couple of years at Purchase if she and I may crash for a few > days,
> until we find more permanent housing. The longest resident of the
> apartment, a big guy named Bob, studying criminal justice and aspiring
to
> be a cop, gave his ok until something else comes up. Not having met me
> when he made this decision, it’s obvious he’s having immediate second
> thoughts when laying eyes upon me.
>
> I’m emmatiatedly thin, my face gaunt and drawn from my hard living and
my
> withdrawals. I’ve been living less than a step off the streets, my
clothes
> are a uniform color of gray, and I no doubt stand out in this brightly
> lit, student-filled apartment. There’re a couple of young guys sitting
at
> a table on the far side of the small room, and another couple of guys
> sprawled on the sofa watching tv. Everyone there except me is clean,
fresh
> faced and healthy. I’m introduced to everyone and miss most of the
names,
> then we sit next to the front door on the end of the sofa, so again, as
on
> the train I’m hit with a blast of freezing Winter air each time the > door
> to the apartment next to me opens and some student comes in or out. Now
> I’m not wearing my coat though, making it even worse.
>
> By now I am utterly miserable, yet unable to give in and drop to the
floor
> in a heap of quivering shaking flesh. I must grin and bear it for now,
> though I am sure my misery is blatantly obvious to everyone present. I
> make an attempt to hang out to relax, to ignore the nausea and shakes.
The
> two guys sitting next to me make banal small talk that I’m totally
> uninterested in hearing. Bored and sick out of my mind, I pull out the
> hash-filled cassette and ask Bob if he’s got a screwdriver.
>
> I figure there’s no better way to break the ice with college students
than
> by breaking out and smoking hashish with them. All are appreciative and
> impressed by the taste of, and high from, the hash. After a couple of
> joints, rolled the European way, mixing hash with tobacco, everyone
> relaxes, except me. Even Bob begins to thaw a bit towards me, but I can
> see in his eyes and demeanor he still has reservations about me.
>
> It’s not much longer before I cannot take anymore socializing. “I’ve > got
> to lay down Bob. Where are we sleeping, please?”
>
> “Hey, no problem,” Bob says as he climbs to his feet. “Help me pull
this.”
> He takes hold of one end of the sofa, chasing those sitting there off
for
> a moment, and he and I pull it away from the wall a few feet. He grabs > a
> mattress leaning against the wall and drops it to the floor behind the
> sofa, right there in the living room where everyone is still making no
> signs to leave. “I hope you don’t mind the lights on,” says Bob with an
> evil little grin.
> He has no idea that this is still luxury living to me.
>
> Unfortunately, there is steady traffic in and out of the apartment for
> hours, which keeps the Arctic air on me. I’m so sick now that each move
I
> make makes me want to throw up. My skin is alternately on fire and
> freezing cold, and I can’t stop sweating, soaking the sheet beneath me.
> The Valiums I’ve so far taken aren’t helping me sleep at all. I can > hear
> snatches of conversations as I drift in and out of lucidity, both from
the
> students and from Oliver Stone’s film, “The Doors,” now playing on the
tv.
> I distinctly hear Jim Morrison tell Pamela to get out and to not forget
> her heroin. “I won’t” I mumble in my delirium, right there in the film
> with the characters and their drugs.
>
> I lie there for I don’t know how many hours, drifting in my state of
hell.
> Then I’m jerked to full awareness by my girlfiend shaking me.
>
> “Come on, get up, we gotta get out of here,” she says. “Bob needs the
> apartment, ’cause a bunch of people are coming over to study and he
can’t
> have someone tossing and turning and mumbling the whole time behind his
> sofa. It’s distracting.”
>
> So the room’s been privy to my suffering. I don’t care. I’m feeling > like
> shit, and don’t care less what Bob nor his friends think of me now. But
> I’ve no choice in the matter, I have to go with her out of the
apartment.
> Before we leave, I have to race to the toilet because my bowels are
loose
> and I have the runs, one of the worst parts of kicking heroin for me.
>
> My girlfiend leads the way through the night, across campus over an
> unending sheet of ice and snow. I just want to lie down, right here in
the
> snow and go nowhere, but I manage to keep to my feet, trudging
grudgingly
> along behind her. It’s snowing hard, making the going a total Eskimo
Hell
> even more slippery than it was earlier, but we eventually arrive at a
> garage-like building, climbing up a narrow metal staircase and entering
> through what looks like the back door.
>
> We’re now in the cafeteria building, which at night houses the student
> bar, where my girlfiend introduces me to the red haired, heavily
tattooed
> bartender, Mike. I proceed to ask Mike for a pitcher, for myself. I > take
> it to a table where I sit by myself the rest of the long evening,
popping
> one Valium after another until they are all gone, drinking them down
with
> pitcher after pitcher, finishing off four of them almost entirely by
> myself in the three hours we are there at the bar. I’m trying
desperately
> to escape the withdrawals, but it’s no good. I cannot get away from
> myself, so now I’m blind drunk and still completely sick too. We > finally
> leave, thinking it must be late enough that the study session has > ended.
>
> Outside on the ice again I fall repeatedly, my girlfiend bitching and
> snapping at me the entire way. I haven’t stopping thinking all night
what
> an incredibly stupid idea this was, to come back here to the US. My
> girlfiend is acting like a total stranger, completely different from > the
> girl I’d known in London. There she’d been a friendly, compassionate
young
> woman, not this evil troll she’s been since my return. She knows what
I’m
> going through right now, that I’m kicking a very serious,
> over-a-gram-a-day-of-good-heroin habit, because she’d been with me the
> previous six months and gone right through it with me, though not doing
> nearly the amounts I’ve been doing. She hadn’t done enough for long
enough
> to catch more than a mild chippy, but she’s lived close enough to not
only
> me but many other addicts as well, close enough to know what > withdrawals
> are and how bad they can be. She’s even seen me go through it before in
> London, though I had a bottle of methadone there to help me get through
> the bad parts. Now she’s acting like she had no idea that was part of
the
> bargain, that by my coming here I was definitely putting myself
knowingly
> into a situation where I was without question having to go through
kicking
> a heavy dope habit and it was to be with her I was doing it.
>
> Back at Bob’s I drop to the mattress, grateful for the respite from the
> troll. Sleep will be a blessed relief. With all the Valiums and the
beer,
> I expect to fall asleep no matter how sick I am. For normal people this
> would be the case, but I’m far from normal when it comes to drugs and
> tolerances to those drugs. All I seem to have accomplished with all the
> pills and alcohol is to remove my ability to focus my eyes and to give
> myself the spins, on top of being in withdrawals. When I finally do > pass
> out, it’s lightly, fitfully, and nowhere near as deep a sleep as I > need.
>
> I go in and out of dreams, strange and terrible dreams, vision of
shooting
> up, or trying to shoot up but not finding my vein no matter how many
time
> I stick myself, missing the vein when I finally give up and push in the
> plunger. In one I’ve got the money but can’t find the dealer, then I’m
> running from the person I robbed for the money. Then I’m dreaming I’m > in
> London, back in the squat. In my dream I get up to relieve myself, > using
> one of the old glass milk bottles I keep by the door for just this
> purpose, so I don’t have to go downstairs through the cold building to
the
> only toilet a floor below. There’s something distinctly wrong, but
peeing
> is such a relief I don’t think about it, I just go.
>
> “Hey man, Yo! Get the Fuck Up!”
>
> I bolt upright out of sleep and into a real nightmare. My body feels
like
> it’s going haywire, my muscles jumping and twitching, on fire and
hurting.
> To top if off I’m soaking wet with sweat, and my girlfiend is shrieking
at
> me.
>
> “You tried to piss in a coke bottle and peed all over the living room
> carpet by the front door, you ass!” She’s beside herself with anger,
> because Bob had come back to one of the back rooms to tell her what was
> happening. Apparently, I’d suddenly risen to my knees behind the sofa
and,
> paying no attention to Bob and the other people still awake and > studying
> in the room, had grabbed a bottle and begun to pee, all over the floor,
my
> hands and the wall and door. Then I’d laid back down behind the sofa.
>
> I’d thought that dream was a little too real. Now I’m embarrassed on > top
> of everything else. So much for worrying about my reputation. I don’t
know
> what to do, so I just stand there, until my girlfiend pushes me to the
> restroom and throws some clothes at me.
>
> “Get changed, and I’ll clean up,” she tell me as she slams the door in
my
> face. After I change, I go back out to the living room where Bob and my
> girlfiend are now the only ones in the room.
>
> “I’m sorry, jetlag you know,” I try to explain, but Bob just waves me
off.
>
> “Don’t worry about it,” he grunts at me.
>
> I lay back down on the now clean mattress, and with my legs and arms
> pulled up under my body to keep the muscles from kicking, I finally > fall
> back into a restless sleep. In the morning no one says anything to me > so
I
> stay under the blankets, shivering and shaking and trying not to moan
out
> loud, delirious but in enough control to manage remaining quiet while
> feeling like hell. The day slowly turns into night then back into day.
As
> soon as it is light out, I wake my girlfiend and tell her to give me > the
> 50 pound note I’d given her in London to bring with her to the States
for
> me. She doesn’t want to, arguing with me for a while but I prevail,
> telling her I’m only going to go to White Plains and exchange it into
> dollars. After she leaves for the first class of the day, I ask around
the
> apartment for directions, asking where to go in NYC to buy weed.
>
> “I can get you excellent pot here,” Bob tells me. “Why go all the way > to
> the city when you can get it here?” He’s giving me a funny look.
>
> “I’ve never been to NYC before,” I tell him. “I want to do this for the
> adventure.” It sounds kind of lame when I say it, but do I really care
> what this fat cop-wannabe thinks? No, I don’t. The real reason I want > to
> know where to buy pot is because I think the people selling pot on the
> streets more likely than not know where I can score some heroin. One of
> the benefits of prohibition is the mingling of drugs, harmless pot sold
> alongside hardcore powders.
>
> “Washington Square Park is where the pot is. Go there and ask around,
> someone will know someone who has it. You’ll know who to ask, you’ll
see.”
>
> “Thanks,” I say as I go out the door. I catch the bus to White Plains
and
> exchange the money, then take a train to Manhattan. At Grand Central
> Station I ask how to get downtown to somewhere near Washington Square,
and
> end up exiting the subway at Astor Place. I ask for directions, then
head
> towards the park, until I spot an older black guy, sitting in the > garden
> of an apartment building smoking what looks exactly like a joint.
>
> “Hey, excuse me.” I walk right up to the guy. “I’m not a cop. I am
really
> dope sick. I just got here from London and need to buy some heroin.
Where
> do I get it? Washington Square?” I figure if anyone knows it’s going to
be
> this obviously homeless guy, sitting here smoking pot with a bunch of
bags
> strewn around him.
>
> “No way man, avoid that park like the plague,” he barks. “Those boys
will
> rip you off in a second. Head over to Alphabet City man, Aves. C and D,
> and Fourth Street. Not this neighborhood. Head East,” The old man
points,
> “into the Lower East Side.”
>
> Thanking him I head the direction he pointed, taking Broadway to Fourth
> Street, then take a left towards the East Side. It’s one of the coldest
> Winters NYC had experienced in a hundred years. I’ve heard students at
> Purchase say this more than once and believe it. The sidewalks are
almost
> completely iced over. There are snow banks along each side of Fourth
St.,
> under which I can just make out the occasional tire or bumper. I hold > my
> coat closed with my arms folded across my chest, my eyes looking down > as
I
> slither my way East. Each block seems a mile long, the ice and
continuing
> withdrawals sapping what little strength I have left. I force myself to
go
> on. Reaching Ave B. I turn right, and begin spotting signs that lead me
to
> think I must be getting close. Dilapidated buildings and shady
characters
> began to take precedence, no more nice, well kept buildings and
sidewalks
> here. At the Corner of Second St and Ave. B I spot two guys across the
> street, leaning against the wall drinking beer, one black guy and a
> Hispanic cat. Taking a deep breath, I cross over.
>
> “Hey, excuse me,” I start again. “I’m not a cop, but I am really very
dope
> sick. I just got here from London and need to cop a bag of gear. Do you
> know anywhere? Someone else directed me this far, but now I need a
little
> help. I know this is forward, but I don’t know anyone so I have to > ask.”
>
> The Hispanic guy looks at me like I’m crazy then turns and walks away
> without a word. The black guy stays.
>
> “How ‘about some Silver Bullet?” he asks.
>
> “What?” I think it’s some kind of threat at first, some kind of NYC
slang
> I’ve never heard before.
>
> “Dope m’man, it’s a brand name. Come on. This way.”
>
> I follow him further south along Ave. B, then Clinton, what Ave. B
becomes
> after crossing south of Houston. Almost everyone passing on the walk is
> speaking Spanish. We walk another three blocks, until my guide points > up
a
> single flight of stairs to a landing where stands a young man wearing a
> ski mask and bulky jacket. I check out the mask, then turn back to my
> guide, but the guy is already walking away, not waiting for a thank you
or
> a goodbye. I turn back to the figure at the top of the step.
>
> “How many?” the kid asks.
>
> “Just one,” I tell him, holding out my only $10 bill. Taking the > plastic
> rectangle offered, I have no way of knowing if this is real or not. I
have
> to trust that it is, that I haven’t been ripped off. Now to find a
needle.
> I only have a few more dollars and my return ticket to Purchase. Fifty
> pound didn’t convert to that many dollars, just enough to get me to the
> city and back and to buy one $10 bag. I walk back over to Houston St.,
> searching for anyone who might know where I can buy a rig. The first
> person I ask laughs at me.
>
> “Why would you buy one when you can go around the corner to the > Exchange
> and get one for free?” he asks. “Ave C. and 4th St.” he tells me,
pointing
> up the street behind me. I’m feeling like I’ve already walked miles,
much
> further than I ever would while feeling healthy, much less while as > sick
> as I am now. There’s no alternative but to continue on, so I do,
slogging
> through the cold and wind. I reach Ave. C and turn left, heading North
> again, looking for a place that looks like a needle exchange. Back in
> Amsterdam the Exchange I’d used was mainly a hole in a door through
which
> I’d hand my used sets and receive new ones. In Atlanta, where I was
living
> before heading to the Nederlands, I’d simply walk into a particular
> pharmacy and buy a 10-pack of 1cc Insulin syringes. I didn’t know > needle
> exchanges even existed in the US. I eventually see a spot, a storefront
> from which issue a steady stream of lowlife types, so I figure,
correctly
> as it turns out, that it must be the place.
>
> Just inside the door to the left is a table under which sits a huge > tub,
> into which clients drop their used rigs before claiming new ones from
the
> volunteer behind the tub. Further down the line sit plastic baggies
filled
> with all the accoutrements need to prepare a shot-plastic bags with
> cookers, cotton, alcohol and bleach-as well as literature about how to
> protect oneself from disease and bad drugs.
>
> “Ever been here before?” A voice stops me as I make a move towards the
> table. “You gotta sign in first.” All I want to do it get my needle and
go
> get straight, but I keep my cool. It can’t take that long. “It’ll only
> take a moment to register,” says the man speaking to me from behind
> another table to the right of entering the door.
>
> “Let’s get it over with. I’m sick as a dog and have to get straight as
> soon as I can,” I tell the guy. My stomach is churning. This is often
the
> very worst time for any heroin addict, the time between scoring and
> actually getting my drugs inside me, especially since I shoot most of > my
> drugs, I rarely smoke or sniff them any more. I’m hunched over,
clutching
> my abdomen tightly, trying to get warm and not shit my pants. The guy
> takes my details, prints and laminates an Exchange card that is > supposed
> to protect me from arrest for possession of a hypodermic instrument. I
ask
> him about the local dope, whether I need lemon juice or not to melt > down
> my heroin.
>
> “No, no lemon juice, but listen, be extra careful pushing the shot in,
> because some of the dope around here is very strong,” he tells me as he
> hands me my brand new needle exchange card.
>
> “Thank God,” I think to myself. “I hope to hell the dope’s incredibly
> fucking strong, you moron.” I leave the Exchange, skating West, sliding
> along the icy sidewalk as fast as I can go, looking for a bar or
> restaurant, anywhere I can go to get in out of the public eye and
finally
> get straight. I still haven’t found a good place when I reach Ave. A.
> There I spot a likely looking little bar called Psycho Mongo, a
veritable
> hole in the wall. Going in I order a soda and ask where the toilet is. > I
> have just enough cash for a drink, then go to the restroom.
>
> Closing the door, I find the toilet is lit with a black light, > something
I
> discover later a lot of the bars do to discourage just this sort of
> activity. It doesn’t stop or even slow me down. I tear open the plastic
> packet, pulling out the wax envelope inside, which I in turn tear open
as
> well. I’m shaking so hard I almost spill it everywhere when trying to
pour
> out the contents into my cooker, but luckily manage ok. I look at the
> heroin in the bottom of the cooker, but in this light I can’t make out
> what color it is, or even how much there is. It sure doesn’t look like
> much. I’m used to doing quarter gram shots at a time, and this is
> definitely a lot less than that, not more than a tenth of a gram at
most.
> I don’t care, so long as it’s real. I dab my finger at the edge of the
> small pile of drugs, putting it to the tip of my tongue to taste. The
> bitter taste tells me right away that it is real, though how cut with
> filler I can’t tell from just tasting. It doesn’t matter at this point.
I
> quickly mix in the water and heat it with my lighter. One thing that
makes
> this easier than in London is that I don’t need lemon juice, the dope
> melts into the water without it, just like the guy back at the Exchange
> explained it to me. I drop a small piece of rolled up cotton into the
> mixture, draw it up into my rig, then take my left arm out of my jacket
> and sweater sleeves. Using the now empty sweater sleeve to tie off just
> above my elbow, I feel for the vein in the dark, placing the tip of the
> needle to the place I can feel with my fingertip. A quick jab, a slight
> pull on the plunger to get blood into the rig, to be sure I’ve hit ok,
> then I shove it in as fast as I can push. Loosening the sweater > quickly,
> to avoid blowing my vein, I sit down on the toilet and heave a sigh of
> relief.
>
> I can feel it coursing through my body, the heroin unclenching and
> untwisting the knots in my muscles. The rush stops short of what I’d
> really like, but that’s to be expected. My drugs are seldom as strong > as
I
> really would like them to be. I rarely get what I want out of my drugs,
> just like out of the rest of my life. If I put as much energy into
living
> as I do into my drugging, I could probably accomplish something.
>
> I shake of these melancholy feelings, happy to finally be straight. I
> don’t think about later, because that’ll just depress me again. I’m not
as
> fucked up as I’d like, but I’m no longer feeling sick, at least until
> tomorrow but that’s just some other time, to quote Lou Reed.
>
> When I return to Purchase, I still feeling good. I hope my pupils > aren’t
> too noticeably pinned. I know my eyes are a dead giveaway to anyone who
> knows me or about dope at all, so therefore try to avoid eye contact > for
> the rest of the evening. I hang out making small talk with various
> students in the living room, until it’s just me, Bob and my girlfiend
> left. Bob keeps watching me with a glint in his eye, obviously > wondering
> about something. While discussing my adventures that day in the city, I
> mention having seen some really far out sculptures while walking up Ave
B.
> in Alphabet City, Bob’s face registers a thought that he doesn’t > express
> aloud. He just nods to himself as though I’ve confirmed something to
him.
> I’m not even really sure I see the nod it passes so fast.
>
> Before retiring for the night, I grab the paper bag in which I’m
carrying
> all my rigs and equipment, going into the bathroom to finish the tiny
> amount of dope I have left in the bag. Then I go to bed.
>
> The next day I go back into White Plains with my girlfiend, who is mad
> that I went into the city and bought dope, more mad that I didn’t share
> any with her. I’ll never please this woman I think. I’m able to move
> around today without wanting to throw up the whole time, but I’m still
> quite ill. Still unable to get any sleep at night, I toss and turn, the
> kicking feeling worst when lying down. The girlfiend has taken to
kicking
> and hitting me throughout the night, telling me to “keep the fuck > still”
> and other loving niceties. I’m tired and cranky and would rather
remained
> lying on the floor at least one more day on campus before venturing out
on
> another adventure.
>
> We aimlessly wander around downtown White Plains for a while, making a
> half-hearted attempt to find some dope to no avail. Giving up finally,
we
> board the bus back to Purchase. We get in to Bob’s right away, just
> beating a new snow storm.
>
> A few minutes after entering, Bob comes out of his bedroom and asks the
> girlfiend to come talk with him in his room, alone, right away. I sit
down
> on the mattress behind the sofa as she walks off with Bob to the back > of
> the apartment. Lifting my duffle bag, I notice it’s open, and I could
> swear I’d closed it before we left, sure of it because the paper bag
> containing my rigs is in there. I’m suddenly sure what Bob is talking > to
> the girlfiend about. I don’t want to believe it, but my stomach
> immediately drops. I know exactly what Bob thinks of heroin and those
who
> use it, particularly “shooters” as Bob had referred to another old
> acquaintance of his and my girlfiend. If this is what the problem is
> though, why is Bob discussing it with my girlfiend and not me?
>
> “This is not good,” I think as I change my clothes. The minutes drag by
> and still no girlfiend. I am about to go knock on the door and ask
what’s
> up when she finally appears, her face drawn and tight, red with anger.
>
> “Come on, we’ve gotta go talk somewhere,” she barks as she grabs her > own
> jacket and heads out the door. “Grab your fucking jacket and let’s go!”
>
> Embarrassed now, and still not entirely sure of what’s happening, I do
as
> she says, following her out into the snow storm currently dropping
another
> foot of snow on the campus.
>
> “Bob doesn’t want you staying in the apartment any more,” she tells me
as
> we work out way through the wind. “He says that if I want to I can > stay,
> but you have to go, now, tonight.” She’s angry, and I’m glad to see she
> angrier at Bob than at me. “I told him you were kicking, and had come
here
> expressly to do so, but he doesn’t care. He says that when moving our
> stuff around while cleaning up the apartment today, that paper bag with
> you rigs fell out on the floor. So they took a look inside it, and now
he
> wants you gone. He doesn’t care that you’re quitting and doesn’t > believe
> it anyway. He says he saw you going into the bathroom with the bag last
> night. Why, if you’re quitting, did you do that, he asked me. So you
have
> to go tonight.”
>
> The wind is brutal, blowing the snow directly at them from all
directions,
> making us both extremely uncomfortable and very aware of the immediate
> problem at hand. Where am I going to sleep tonight? And the next night,
> and the night after? I don’t know anyone on campus except my girlfiend,
> other than for those I’ve met at Bob’s. I have already garnered that
> reputation I’ve been so concerned about up to now.
>
> “Let’s go to the library,” she says, grabbing my hand. She leads and I
> follow, lost in thought, once more trying to not panic and get angry at
> things I cannot control, nor change now.
>
> This wasn’t how I’d envisioned my return to the US. I’d more imagined
that
> I’d meet up with my girlfiend, stay wherever it was that she’d have
found
> for us in the four days she’d had prior to my own return, and that I’d
lay
> up in bed kicking in peace and quiet before having to tackle any of
life’s
> other complications. But my best laid plans are often for naught.
Somehow
> I’m now facing sleeping out in the cold and snow, only my third night
back
> in the States. I have no money, no friends, no place to crash. “What in
> the hell am I doing back here?” I wonder silently. It’s difficult not > to
> give in to major regrets. If I could turn around and go back to London
I’d
> do it in a heartbeat. I’d tuck my tail between my legs and take off
> running, admitting defeat. I’ve got nowhere to run though, nowhere to > go
> to get away from my troubles, to escape, so I have to tough it out. I
feel
> damned.
>
> We continue toward the library, walking into the wind the entire way, > my
> tears of frustration mingling with those torn from my eyes by the wind.
We
> find the library open and almost deserted. Who would bother heading out
in
> this weather anyway? We make our way downstairs, to a long row of
> closet-like cubicles, where we can find a bit of privacy. My girlfiend
> steps into one, throws all her stuff on the floor within, then tells me
to
> wait there for a minute. I ease myself onto the floor and cover up with
my
> jacket. I can’t believe this is happening to me.
>
> I’m almost asleep when she returns, carrying an armload of oversized
> atlases, encyclopedias, and other large books, which she stacks up in
> front of the cubicle window.
>
> “I used to come sleep in here my first year at Purchase,” she tells me,
> “to get away from everyone, to kind of hide out and get my bearings. We
> should be ok here until closing time at least.”
>
> “Great. Then what?” I wonder to myself, but don’t voice my concerns.
> There’s no reason to piss her off at this point. But am I supposed to
live
> in the library? “Phantom of the Library” passes through my mind, and I
> giggle out loud. I picture myself lurking about the library shelves,
> hiding from staff and students, stealing bag lunches and such, and
really
> start to laugh out loud. She turns to me with a “shh” but I can’t help
> myself and keep laughing. The ridiculousness of my situation has me in
> hysterics. She starts to laugh along with me, not knowing what she’s
> laughing about but enjoying the release of tension none the less. We > sit
> there on the floor, laughing together until we’re almost weeping.
>
> Once we regain control, we curl up together in the corner under the > desk
> inside the cubicle, trying to be as quiet as possible, although that’s
> probably useless considering the laughter we’ve been doing the past few
> minutes. As I try to lie still, my muscles once again begin to kick, > and
I
> start rolling around, unable to keep still for more than a couple of
> seconds. This drives my girlfiend crazy, right back into her “ultra
bitch”
> state.
>
> “Keep the fuck still!” She orders, punching me a couple of times to let
me
> know she means it. I loose my temper in return, telling her to “leave
off
> and shut the fuck up.” Pissed off and hateful, we both eventually pass
> out.
>
> Hours later, she shakes me awake. “Get your stuff, we gotta get out of
> here.” There’s no one else in the library now other than the librarian
at
> the front desk, who gives us the eye as we exit the building. She walks
us
> over to the computer building, where we find an open classroom. She
tells
> me to sleep in here for the rest of the night, and tomorrow we’ll come
up
> with something else.
>
> “Wait a minute,” I say. “Why am I putting myself through this? This is
> crazy. I’m out of here tomorrow.”
>
> “What do you mean, you’re ‘outta here’?” she asks, suddenly quiet.
>
> “I mean, I’m out of here. We were supposed to be going to California
> together, remember? Well, I’m sick of this shit here. I’m going, first
> thing tomorrow.” I’m adamant. I don’t care if it is the middle of
Winter,
> I can’t take this hell I’ve landed in. I’ve been told many time by many
> different folk that San Francisco is my Mecca, that I’d thoroughly > enjoy
> that city and would fit right in.
>
> “Are you nuts?” She asks. “How are you going to get there?”
>
> “I’ll hitchhike. What do you care anyway?” I glare at her. She’s the
> reason I’m here having all these problems, I think to myself,
conveniently
> forgetting it was my decision to come back to the States, that no one,
not
> even my girlfiend, put a gun to my head and forced me to undertake this
> misadventure.
>
> “It’s the middle of Winter and you’re sick,” she says. “Besides, I > don’t
> want you to leave yet, I love you. Wait until Spring at least, when the
> weather is nicer. Then go.”
>
> I can’t believe I’ve just heard this correctly. I stand there > speechless
> for a minute or two, staring at her with my mouth ajar. Then I let my
> shoulders slump and shake my head.
>
> “Get out of here,” I tell her. “I’ll see you in the morning, right?”
>
> “Yeah, sure. Don’t do anything stupid, like leave campus without > telling
> me, ok?”
>
> “Sure,” I answer. I turn my back as she leaves, then lie down on the
floor
> under yet another desk, hopefully out of view of anyone or any guards
> passing in the hallway outside the classroom. There’s an entire > security
> force of guards that patrol the campus, but if any pass that night I’m
> totally unaware of them.
>
> I wake early the next morning when the lights suddenly go on. Someone
> enters the room with a cacophony of clattering and clanking. Rolling
over,
> I climb to my feet to confront a wide-eyed and very surprised janitor.
>
> “Hi there and good morning,” I tell him before bending back down to > grab
> my stuff, then head out the door.
>
> The dope sickness still has not passed, though I am getting stronger > and
a
> wee bit better. Still, I’m miserable and depressed. There has to be > some
> way to get some relief. My mind is focused entirely on this thought. My
> girlfiend has some class very early this morning, so I won’t see her > for
a
> couple more hours. I don’t know why she didn’t wake me before going to
> class. Even with all the anger and the hitting, she’s the only friend I
> have right now. We’ve been in a relationship for just over six months > at
> this point. To my perspective, we’ve got some history to our
relationship,
> so I’m loath to give up just like that.
>
> I’m not stopping to wonder about it. I have come up with a plan, and > I’m
> glad she is in class because I don’t think she’d like this one. I walk
to
> the campus store. It’s mostly empty of students, and the clerk is busy
> reading a magazine when I enter. She says, “Good morning” when I enter
and
> then ignores me, burying her face back in the glossy pages of the
fashion
> rag she’s reading. I’m not sure if they’re going to have what I’m
looking
> for, but sure enough, at the very back of the store, in one of the only
> places out of the clerk’s line of sight, there sits all the cold
> medicines. Without checking to be sure no one is watching, I reach out,
> grab a box of Nyquil Cold Medicine capsules, put it in my jacket > pocket,
> then go to the counter and order a cup of coffee. I can afford that,
even
> if I have to steal the cold medicine.
>
> Nyquil has something or other in it that helps people sleep, so I > figure
> that perhaps it’ll help me my body’s muscles settle down somewhat. I go
> back to the still deserted library to find a quiet spot to carry out my
> plan. Going downstairs, I enter the bathroom and lock myself into a > stal
l.
> I take out my paper bag containing all my works and equipment, then > open
> up the box of Nyquil. Laying everything out on the lid of the toilet, I
> then open the box, ripping a couple of the green gel caps inside from
> their wrapping. They feel so soft and fragile when I squeeze them
between
> thumb and forefinger, but when I try to break one open, the outer shell
> doesn’t do anything other than bend inwards without breaking. “Great,
now
> what?” I think to myself in frustration. I’ve got my mind set on doing
> this and am not about to just give up. I root around in my duffle bag
for
> a moment until I find a razor blade. Holding one of the gel caps steady
> between my fingers on the toilet seat lid and proceed to try and cut it
> open. It seems for a moment this too won’t work, but then it gives. The
> blade cuts almost all the way through the gel cap, causing me to almost
> loose the contents all over the lid of the toilet, but I save it.
Picking
> up both halves, I pour the contents into my cooker, the repeat the
process
> with a couple more gel caps. I then add about ten mils of water to the
goo
> in my cooker. Then I heat it, stirring with the back of my rig, heating
> and reheating and adding teeny amounts of water, trying to dilute the
gook
> in the cooker. I finally decide it’s as ready as it’s ever going to be,
> then drop a small piece of cotton into the mix. Taking a set, I draw > the
> pink, gooey muck up into my rig. It takes a long time, and I look at > the
> end results a bit dubiously. It resembles nothing so much as hair gel
now,
> and I hesitate.
>
> “What the hell, it’s already in my set.” I think to myself, then tie
off.
> I find the vein quickly and boot it in. After untying and sitting back,
my
> ears begin to ring a bit and my chest has a localized ache right about
> where I figure my heart must be, dead center of my chest. I don’t feel
> much of anything beyond this slight discomfort. This isn’t working as
I’d
> hoped, so I forego a second try. I eat two of the gel caps instead of
> banging them, thinking that since I have them I may as well, that
perhaps
> they’ll work better orally as they’re meant to be taken. I start to get
> jittery, then realize way too late that the Nyquil has pseudoephedrine
in
> it, which is only increasing the sensations of kicking instead of > muting
> them. Shit, yet another mistake on my part.
>
> I walk out of the library into a crisp, bright Winter morning and sit > on
a
> bench in the cold, holding my head in my gloved hands, hoping the cold
air
> will nullify my discomfort but it’s no good. I spend the morning in and
> out of the restroom throwing up, generally miserable and hating myself
and
> my life.
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston Peet
>

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Did you get the gig?
Date: March 2, 2005 at 6:18:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“The story” the one you last wrote on the list about flying from one
country to the next,..hanging out when getting there,..being met by
a girlfriend who was studying,…you know,…pissing in the bottle and
missing.<

There’re a few more installments online at DrugWar.com Jasen, if you click the Preston Peet link at the top of the homepage, then scroll down the page to where it reads “Something in the Way,” the title of the manuscript which that story is one small part. So while it’s not “part 2” of that particular story, you can read other “parts” of the same story there for now. When I do finally publish the darn thing, I’ll be sure to let you know.
😉

The cursed thread was a title I started seeing on emails and wondered what it was about. I hadn’t a clue but was curious, that’s all.
Glad you are still hanging out posting Jasen, as there have been many who do ibogaine, stick around for a while glowing a lot, then disappear, and it’s a bit discouraging at times, or at least I let it discourage me a bit. So you are encouraging in other words.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Did you get the gig?

Gee mate,

Now I’m confused,..what do you mean by the”f*ck the past thread”
The only thread I can think of is when I wrote about certain drama’s
that happen in ones life and that we all have these drama’s and hurts.

Drama is relative,..so is hurt,..to me. (Is that the thread you are talking
about.)

“The story” the one you last wrote on the list about flying from one
country to the next,..hanging out when getting there,..being met by
a girlfriend who was studying,…you know,…pissing in the bottle and
missing.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

>Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.<

Which one Jasen?
Sorry, please excuse my seeming confusion- I get that way sometimes.

And on a completely unrelated note (I think), what started the “f%#* your past” thread please? I think I missed something that coulda been somewhat interesting.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

Hello Preston,

My fingers are crossed at the moment,..it makes it hard to type.
Good luck matey. Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.

love to you and V,
Jasen.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ot: congrats to Preston
Date: March 2, 2005 at 5:58:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

WAIT! I’ve read what you’re on. Wouldn’t you have  trouble getting it up?<

Um, lol?
It’s not the “getting it up” that’s an issue dear Steven, it’s the length of time it takes to “finish the job” one might say were one to get a bit personal if you will- which would mean it would probably be a fairly long blow job, complicated by the fact it would be you blowing, a guy, which isn’t the direction I lean particularly, no offense of course, which would lead to the aforementioned problem of “getting it up,” which wouldn’t normally be an issue but in your case might very well enter into the picture. But on opiates, for me anyway, it’s not (currently anyway- because while taking loads of heroin and spending all my time and energy chasing the stuff, yes indeed, “getting it up” was an issue) really a problem, though I did notice an increase in “drive” immediately following (here comes the “ontopic” tie-in) the first ibogaine session- not the second but definitely after the first.

I’ll teach you yoga, feed you a few steaks and get you tanned up.<

As Meatloaf once said, “two out of three ain’t bad.”
;-))
I could use some yoga and tanning. I’ll pass on the streaks though, thanks.

Of course I don’t know what happened,
but I held you in such high journalistic regard before this.<

It’s known as “not blowing a source” Steven- and yes, friendship did enter into the picture. I will leave it at this, in hopes you are ribbing me in entirely “tongue in cheek” fashion.

Perhaps a job for you in the White House press
corps.<

Not if I have to wear a tie.

“Mr. President, how do you do it, you look great!” Come on, this is
comedy?! This is Hunter! Why no possession? He ate it. Now in NM possession
for under an oz is a petty misdemeanor, a ticket. So his big crime was
eating it. Comedy is often not pretty.<

But it sure if funny though. And yes, as I wrote someone offlist last night, I do want to hear Dana’s side of the story because I cannot for the life of me figure out WHY he was EATING the pot, getting rid of the evidence, then TELLING THE COPS what he was eating! What in the heck?!@?

Peace and for once I’ll be getting some real love from you Preston,<

I suppose that depends upon what your definition of “real” and “getting” are.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot: congrats to Preston

Preston,

Congratulations! Really ? You? Playing a junkie?

Casting for type  as we say.

It would be a pleasure, no an honor, to suck your dick when you come to LA. WAIT! I’ve read what you’re on. Wouldn’t you have  trouble getting it up? Well, an honor none the less.

I’ll teach you yoga, feed you a few steaks and get you tanned up. You will feel and look great. Unfortunately the producers hate the new you, you loose everything and become another bum on the street with failed acting dreams. Show-biz, babe.

Glad to know that you are such a shill for the man that you would surpress such a story as Dana involve in a high-speed police chase in NM with a crazed Indian at the wheel. Perhaps a job for you in the White House press corps. “Mr. President, how do you do it, you look great!” Come on, this is comedy?! This is Hunter! Why no possession? He ate it. Now in NM possession for under an oz is a petty misdemeanor, a ticket. So his big crime was eating it. Comedy is often not pretty. Of course I don’t know what happened, but I held you in such high journalistic regard before this.

An old dope-fiend buddy wrote me this about Hunter:

Of course, what fool with a whit of creative talent and a taste for talent-obscuring intoxicants doesn’t mourn the loss of HST?  He gave us all the excuse we needed to get as fucked up as possible in hopes that the answers were on the other side of that tunnel, and if not, at least we’d enjoy the spelunking. Remember – everything HST did from about 1983 til about 1999 sucked.  And now look, he’s getting the Ronald Reagan”greatest man in history” treatment.

Peace and for once I’ll be getting some real love from you Preston,
Steve.

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] spitn truthf
Date: March 2, 2005 at 4:09:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

JONES COMIN DOWN

day breaks
got the shakes
nose running .. . joint drippin .. . mind slippin body aches

_got an attitude_

/// glad i aint there any more.

n$

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:52:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

tampering with evidence is a felony? even if its mj?

i did not know that

n$

Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence.<

But not for possession? Weird.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!

.:vector:.

YIPPIE FOUNDER ARRESTED IN NEW MEXICO Dana Beal, a founding member of
the 1960’s group the Youth International Party, or Yippies, has been
arrested in Tohatchi, N.M., on the Navajo Indian reservation. The
Navajo police said Mr. Beal and a companion were stopped Friday for
speeding and that Mr. Beal, a passenger, was observed eating what Mr.
Beal said was marijuana. A Manhattan resident and organizer of
pro-marijuana marches, Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence. He was released Saturday after pleading not guilty and
posting a $5,000 cash bond.Joseph Kolb (NYT)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports – Sign up for Fantasy Baseball.
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine freebase
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:19:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

any feedback on this question yet?

pure curiosity:
is there a recipe of how to make freebase out of HCl? its easy to do
with cocaine HCl . does ibogaine behaves similar ? can freebase be
absorbed by the body as well as HCl, since its probably not water
soluble? please don´t get upset anyone, i won´t try to smoke it and i
don´t plan to flood the ghettos with crack ibogaine (LOL). its trivial
pursuit only. -ekki

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From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:03:14 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was called: The Return
I also am still looking forward to the read!
Susan

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.<

Which one Jasen?
Sorry, please excuse my seeming confusion- I get that way sometimes.

And on a completely unrelated note (I think), what started the “f%#* your
past” thread please? I think I missed something that coulda been somewhat
interesting.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

Hello Preston,

My fingers are crossed at the moment,..it makes it hard to type.
Good luck matey. Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.

love to you
and V,
Jasen.

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From: “suzanne corey” <pugsofcherryvalley@msn.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] ATT:Preston (The Return)
Date: March 2, 2005 at 3:00:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,
We are waiting for part two to your story: The Return
An excellent story.
Have you part two? Would love to read it.
Susan :o)

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Drug Addiction & Sexual Abuse

Hey Preston,

Mate,..you are a very good story teller.
I felt I was there.

Looking forward to part two.

love,
Jasen.

BTW Can you point me to a good description of heroin withdrawal?<

current chapt. 6 of Somthing in the Way, by Preston Peet
(I think I Posted this not too long ago here, so some may have already
read this, but it’s got some fairly descriptive sections dealing with
withdrawals. Hope it’s what you were interested in Lee.)

The Return

I am not feeling well. As a matter of fact, having been in the air for
just over nine hours now, it’s been more than twelve since I did my last
shot, so I’m getting incredibly sick. I’m still able to operate and
appear
outwardly normal, but I can tell already that this time the withdrawals
are going to be unlike any I’ve gone through yet in my career as a
strung-out junky and hard core drug abuser.

I’d finished the last of my dope on the tube out to Heathrow airport in
London, confident that I’d be able to handle the sickness I knew would
be
arriving sooner than later. When making my decision to return to the US
to
be with my girlfiend, I’d promised her I’d forgo the drugs, the shooting
and smoking of hard narcotics. My journey was going to end I was not
sure
where yet, because the night before on the phone, my girlfiend had
mentioned going back to school and having to find a place on campus to
live, miles away from NYC itself. Not the easiest place to score those
drugs I prefer, she’s made sure to tell me, so I’ve been figuring this
will only make it easier for me to kick. I’d made to sure to get ahold
of
at least a score of Valium 10s, which I’m hoping will help soothe the
pains of miseries of dope sickness, and perhaps ease the worst of the
withdrawals.

Now the plane has landed in Newark, New Jersey, back in my own country
after a two year hiatus. I get off the plane and collect my bags. In my
shoulder bag, I’m carrying a cassette tape inside of which I’ve filled
with hashish, good, black soft hash. I’d unscrewed the two halves of the
cassette, placed the hash inside, then screwing it shut, gluing a piece
of
the cassette tape across the bottom of the cassette to make it appear to
be a whole, complete tape. I’ve used this method for carrying hashish
across many borders over the years, and this time is yet another
successful smuggling attempt. I’m glad too, as I’m going to need the
hash
in addition to the Valiums, to medicate myself.

As I pick up my bags, I see a cop come around the corner leading a drug
dog, a small beagle, which completely ignores me and my bag. At the
Customs desk itself, I breeze right through into the land of my birth,
receiving nothing but friendly greetings and welcomes from the Customs
officials. This is a first for me, more used to getting at least a once
over search if not the complete “strip naked while we throw out all your
luggage onto the counter” type searches.

I pass into the main hall of the airport, searching everywhere for my
girlfiend, eventually spotting her braids bobbing along at most people’s
waist level. At four feet, eleven inches tall, she is a tiny but fiery
woman, with long brown curly hair she wears in dread-like braids. We hug
and kiss hello, but something is off. I’m not sure what it is, but
there’s
a feeling, an energy or vibe coming off her that has me feeling nervous.
Rapidly descending into the blackness and depression of full-on dope
withdrawals, I decide this is what I’m feeling and this alone, so try to
put it out of my mind.

Taking the smaller of my two bags, she leads me through the crowded
airport to catch a bus into the city. I take a deep breath.

“Holy shit, it’s cold!” Beginning of February, the North East US is
experiencing the coldest Winter in something like 90 years, and I’ve
landed right smack dab in the middle of it, without any much needed
heroin. I dig another sweater out of a bag.

We take the bus to Grand Central Station in the middle of Manhattan. I’m
beginning to have trouble even moving, the withdrawals leaving me
feeling
drained, weak, and particularly susceptible to the cold. I get shivers
and
chills if dope sick even in front of a fireplace, so now I’m feeling the
cold down to my bones, and I’m growing ever more miserable. My girlfiend
leads me into a diner next door to the station.

“Wait here, I’m going to make a phone call, check the schedule and buy
us
tickets,” she says, then runs off, leaving me there with just enough
cash
for a cup of coffee, which I don’t really want. I wait there for nearly
an
hour, a foreshadowing of things to come. I get worried eventually,
having
heard so many stories about how dangerous and violent NYC is, about all
the freaks and madmen who make the city their home, who’d all love to
get
their hands on such a petite beauty as my girlfiend. She finally makes a
reappearance.

“I got our tickets, but before we get on the train to White Plains, we
gotta talk,” she tells me.

“Train tickets? You mean we gotta take another train?”

“And a bus,” she tells me. “Are you listening to me? This is important.
I
need to say something to you.”

“Oh great, fucking perfect, here it comes, whatever it is,” I think to
myself, trying to brace for whatever bad news is coming.

“I have gone ahead and reenrolled in school, so I won’t be going with
you
to San Francisco,” she says, very business like and cold. “I want you to
go on without me. I need to concentrate on my studies and just can’t
handle you being around to distract me.” She looks away for a moment,
then
continues. “I almost did a ‘runner’ on you just now, when I went to get
the tickets, but decided I do still want to spend some time with you, at
least a week or so, before you take off.”

I sit there starting at her without comment for a good few minutes. I do
not want to risk opening my mouth and letting her have it right there in
the diner. I feel like I might explode and want to keep control, give
myself a little time to think and catch my breath before responding.
She’d
mentioned the reenrolling thing on the phone, but that I should still
come
back to the US and NY, that she missed me and couldn’t wait to see me.
Now, a little less than 24 hours later, me sick and only wanting to lie
down and sleep, or better yet get straight, this is not the best time or
place to tell me these details. I feel like she could have said
something
before I boarded a flight and left my entire life for the previous year
behind. At least in London I’d been making decent money, had a fantastic
heroin connection, and a roof over my head. Now I have nothing and am
utterly dependent on this woman for now as I have nothing and have
nowhere
to get out of the cold but with her.

Suddenly it seems as though she take note for the first time that I am
not
feeling so well, and jumps to her feet.

“Come on, let’s go catch the train. We’ve got a ways to go yet before we
reach the campus.” She snatches up the little bag again and leads the
way
to the train which will take us to White Plains, where we will catch yet
another bus for another 45 minutes ride to Purchase. I’m having trouble
focusing on anything, much less sitting upright and being civil. I
surprise myself by resisting mentioning my desire in the diner, my
absolute need to cop a bag while we were still in the city, and once
again, as with my decision not to ask Paul before leaving London, I soon
regret my decision to skip the attempt at getting more dope in me. I’ve
completely uprooted myself from familiar surroundings, flung myself into
a
massive change, determined to make it as difficult as possible for
myself
it seems.

Outside the train, signs of how cold it is are everywhere. Huge chunks
of
ice float in the Hudson river, just visible in the moonlight as the
train
thunders over a bridge, and snow is piled in towering drifts in all
directions. It was cold in London, but nothing like this. This has to be
the coldest I’ve ever been in my entire short life. I’m sitting inside a
warm train, bundled into almost every bit of extra clothing I can pull
out
of my bags, but each time the doors open at a stop, an Arctic blast of
freezing cold air hits me in my seat. Gazing out the window, all I can
make out is white, broken occasionally by glittering, pointy ice sickles
hanging from every tree, reflecting the lights from the train in
prismatic, chaotic colors as the train speeds past.

Pulling into White Plains forty minutes later, I’m seriously ailing. I’m
not getting sick anymore, I am sick. My girlfiend leads the way to the
bus
stop, to undertake the forty-five minute bus ride out to SUNY Purchase
campus. I’m huddled into myself, trying to no avail to get warm. I’m
freezing inside my bones, and can’t ever remember not being cold. At the
same time I’m freezing, I’m sweating profusely, which is freezing to my
skin underneath my layered clothing, further torturing me. The bus
finally
arrives and I climb aboard, thankful to finally be out of the wind.

Shaking hard but doing a fair job of hiding it in the dark of the bus, I
shiver under my large wool military coat. I’ve already eaten four of the
12 or so Valium I have, the ones that are supposed to help me get
through
the worst of the withdrawals. At the rate I’m going through them, I’m
not
going to have any left by the time I reach the worst of it, if I’m not
already there, which I sadly, and correctly it later turns out, suspect
is
the case. The bus ride feeling twice as long as it really is, we
eventually reach the campus. I can’t see much except trees, and a whole
lot of snow when we disembark, but my girlfiend leads the way into the
dark and I follow meekly behind. Slipping and sliding along the
ice-coated
walkway, I can barely keep my feet I’m shaking so hard on the icy
surface.
I just keeping repeating, mantra-like, “I can make it, I can make it,”
to
myself as we creep along.

The pathway winds out of the trees into a complex of apartment
buildings.
My girlfiend turns right at the third building and we climb the stairs
up
to the second floor, where she knocks on one of the two upper floor
apartments’ doors, then enters with me close behind, anxious to get in
out
of the cold.

While on the bus, she had explained to me that she has yet to find
campus
housing, as she’d enrolled after the semester had already begun, almost
two weeks late. She’d had to ask a couple of old acquaintances from her
first couple of years at Purchase if she and I may crash for a few days,
until we find more permanent housing. The longest resident of the
apartment, a big guy named Bob, studying criminal justice and aspiring
to
be a cop, gave his ok until something else comes up. Not having met me
when he made this decision, it’s obvious he’s having immediate second
thoughts when laying eyes upon me.

I’m emmatiatedly thin, my face gaunt and drawn from my hard living and
my
withdrawals. I’ve been living less than a step off the streets, my
clothes
are a uniform color of gray, and I no doubt stand out in this brightly
lit, student-filled apartment. There’re a couple of young guys sitting
at
a table on the far side of the small room, and another couple of guys
sprawled on the sofa watching tv. Everyone there except me is clean,
fresh
faced and healthy. I’m introduced to everyone and miss most of the
names,
then we sit next to the front door on the end of the sofa, so again, as
on
the train I’m hit with a blast of freezing Winter air each time the door
to the apartment next to me opens and some student comes in or out. Now
I’m not wearing my coat though, making it even worse.

By now I am utterly miserable, yet unable to give in and drop to the
floor
in a heap of quivering shaking flesh. I must grin and bear it for now,
though I am sure my misery is blatantly obvious to everyone present. I
make an attempt to hang out to relax, to ignore the nausea and shakes.
The
two guys sitting next to me make banal small talk that I’m totally
uninterested in hearing. Bored and sick out of my mind, I pull out the
hash-filled cassette and ask Bob if he’s got a screwdriver.

I figure there’s no better way to break the ice with college students
than
by breaking out and smoking hashish with them. All are appreciative and
impressed by the taste of, and high from, the hash. After a couple of
joints, rolled the European way, mixing hash with tobacco, everyone
relaxes, except me. Even Bob begins to thaw a bit towards me, but I can
see in his eyes and demeanor he still has reservations about me.

It’s not much longer before I cannot take anymore socializing. “I’ve got
to lay down Bob. Where are we sleeping, please?”

“Hey, no problem,” Bob says as he climbs to his feet. “Help me pull
this.”
He takes hold of one end of the sofa, chasing those sitting there off
for
a moment, and he and I pull it away from the wall a few feet. He grabs a
mattress leaning against the wall and drops it to the floor behind the
sofa, right there in the living room where everyone is still making no
signs to leave. “I hope you don’t mind the lights on,” says Bob with an
evil little grin.
He has no idea that this is still luxury living to me.

Unfortunately, there is steady traffic in and out of the apartment for
hours, which keeps the Arctic air on me. I’m so sick now that each move
I
make makes me want to throw up. My skin is alternately on fire and
freezing cold, and I can’t stop sweating, soaking the sheet beneath me.
The Valiums I’ve so far taken aren’t helping me sleep at all. I can hear
snatches of conversations as I drift in and out of lucidity, both from
the
students and from Oliver Stone’s film, “The Doors,” now playing on the
tv.
I distinctly hear Jim Morrison tell Pamela to get out and to not forget
her heroin. “I won’t” I mumble in my delirium, right there in the film
with the characters and their drugs.

I lie there for I don’t know how many hours, drifting in my state of
hell.
Then I’m jerked to full awareness by my girlfiend shaking me.

“Come on, get up, we gotta get out of here,” she says. “Bob needs the
apartment, ’cause a bunch of people are coming over to study and he
can’t
have someone tossing and turning and mumbling the whole time behind his
sofa. It’s distracting.”

So the room’s been privy to my suffering. I don’t care. I’m feeling like
shit, and don’t care less what Bob nor his friends think of me now. But
I’ve no choice in the matter, I have to go with her out of the
apartment.
Before we leave, I have to race to the toilet because my bowels are
loose
and I have the runs, one of the worst parts of kicking heroin for me.

My girlfiend leads the way through the night, across campus over an
unending sheet of ice and snow. I just want to lie down, right here in
the
snow and go nowhere, but I manage to keep to my feet, trudging
grudgingly
along behind her. It’s snowing hard, making the going a total Eskimo
Hell
even more slippery than it was earlier, but we eventually arrive at a
garage-like building, climbing up a narrow metal staircase and entering
through what looks like the back door.

We’re now in the cafeteria building, which at night houses the student
bar, where my girlfiend introduces me to the red haired, heavily
tattooed
bartender, Mike. I proceed to ask Mike for a pitcher, for myself. I take
it to a table where I sit by myself the rest of the long evening,
popping
one Valium after another until they are all gone, drinking them down
with
pitcher after pitcher, finishing off four of them almost entirely by
myself in the three hours we are there at the bar. I’m trying
desperately
to escape the withdrawals, but it’s no good. I cannot get away from
myself, so now I’m blind drunk and still completely sick too. We finally
leave, thinking it must be late enough that the study session has ended.

Outside on the ice again I fall repeatedly, my girlfiend bitching and
snapping at me the entire way. I haven’t stopping thinking all night
what
an incredibly stupid idea this was, to come back here to the US. My
girlfiend is acting like a total stranger, completely different from the
girl I’d known in London. There she’d been a friendly, compassionate
young
woman, not this evil troll she’s been since my return. She knows what
I’m
going through right now, that I’m kicking a very serious,
over-a-gram-a-day-of-good-heroin habit, because she’d been with me the
previous six months and gone right through it with me, though not doing
nearly the amounts I’ve been doing. She hadn’t done enough for long
enough
to catch more than a mild chippy, but she’s lived close enough to not
only
me but many other addicts as well, close enough to know what withdrawals
are and how bad they can be. She’s even seen me go through it before in
London, though I had a bottle of methadone there to help me get through
the bad parts. Now she’s acting like she had no idea that was part of
the
bargain, that by my coming here I was definitely putting myself
knowingly
into a situation where I was without question having to go through
kicking
a heavy dope habit and it was to be with her I was doing it.

Back at Bob’s I drop to the mattress, grateful for the respite from the
troll. Sleep will be a blessed relief. With all the Valiums and the
beer,
I expect to fall asleep no matter how sick I am. For normal people this
would be the case, but I’m far from normal when it comes to drugs and
tolerances to those drugs. All I seem to have accomplished with all the
pills and alcohol is to remove my ability to focus my eyes and to give
myself the spins, on top of being in withdrawals. When I finally do pass
out, it’s lightly, fitfully, and nowhere near as deep a sleep as I need.

I go in and out of dreams, strange and terrible dreams, vision of
shooting
up, or trying to shoot up but not finding my vein no matter how many
time
I stick myself, missing the vein when I finally give up and push in the
plunger. In one I’ve got the money but can’t find the dealer, then I’m
running from the person I robbed for the money. Then I’m dreaming I’m in
London, back in the squat. In my dream I get up to relieve myself, using
one of the old glass milk bottles I keep by the door for just this
purpose, so I don’t have to go downstairs through the cold building to
the
only toilet a floor below. There’s something distinctly wrong, but
peeing
is such a relief I don’t think about it, I just go.

“Hey man, Yo! Get the Fuck Up!”

I bolt upright out of sleep and into a real nightmare. My body feels
like
it’s going haywire, my muscles jumping and twitching, on fire and
hurting.
To top if off I’m soaking wet with sweat, and my girlfiend is shrieking
at
me.

“You tried to piss in a coke bottle and peed all over the living room
carpet by the front door, you ass!” She’s beside herself with anger,
because Bob had come back to one of the back rooms to tell her what was
happening. Apparently, I’d suddenly risen to my knees behind the sofa
and,
paying no attention to Bob and the other people still awake and studying
in the room, had grabbed a bottle and begun to pee, all over the floor,
my
hands and the wall and door. Then I’d laid back down behind the sofa.

I’d thought that dream was a little too real. Now I’m embarrassed on top
of everything else. So much for worrying about my reputation. I don’t
know
what to do, so I just stand there, until my girlfiend pushes me to the
restroom and throws some clothes at me.

“Get changed, and I’ll clean up,” she tell me as she slams the door in
my
face. After I change, I go back out to the living room where Bob and my
girlfiend are now the only ones in the room.

“I’m sorry, jetlag you know,” I try to explain, but Bob just waves me
off.

“Don’t worry about it,” he grunts at me.

I lay back down on the now clean mattress, and with my legs and arms
pulled up under my body to keep the muscles from kicking, I finally fall
back into a restless sleep. In the morning no one says anything to me so
I
stay under the blankets, shivering and shaking and trying not to moan
out
loud, delirious but in enough control to manage remaining quiet while
feeling like hell. The day slowly turns into night then back into day.
As
soon as it is light out, I wake my girlfiend and tell her to give me the
50 pound note I’d given her in London to bring with her to the States
for
me. She doesn’t want to, arguing with me for a while but I prevail,
telling her I’m only going to go to White Plains and exchange it into
dollars. After she leaves for the first class of the day, I ask around
the
apartment for directions, asking where to go in NYC to buy weed.

“I can get you excellent pot here,” Bob tells me. “Why go all the way to
the city when you can get it here?” He’s giving me a funny look.

“I’ve never been to NYC before,” I tell him. “I want to do this for the
adventure.” It sounds kind of lame when I say it, but do I really care
what this fat cop-wannabe thinks? No, I don’t. The real reason I want to
know where to buy pot is because I think the people selling pot on the
streets more likely than not know where I can score some heroin. One of
the benefits of prohibition is the mingling of drugs, harmless pot sold
alongside hardcore powders.

“Washington Square Park is where the pot is. Go there and ask around,
someone will know someone who has it. You’ll know who to ask, you’ll
see.”

“Thanks,” I say as I go out the door. I catch the bus to White Plains
and
exchange the money, then take a train to Manhattan. At Grand Central
Station I ask how to get downtown to somewhere near Washington Square,
and
end up exiting the subway at Astor Place. I ask for directions, then
head
towards the park, until I spot an older black guy, sitting in the garden
of an apartment building smoking what looks exactly like a joint.

“Hey, excuse me.” I walk right up to the guy. “I’m not a cop. I am
really
dope sick. I just got here from London and need to buy some heroin.
Where
do I get it? Washington Square?” I figure if anyone knows it’s going to
be
this obviously homeless guy, sitting here smoking pot with a bunch of
bags
strewn around him.

“No way man, avoid that park like the plague,” he barks. “Those boys
will
rip you off in a second. Head over to Alphabet City man, Aves. C and D,
and Fourth Street. Not this neighborhood. Head East,” The old man
points,
“into the Lower East Side.”

Thanking him I head the direction he pointed, taking Broadway to Fourth
Street, then take a left towards the East Side. It’s one of the coldest
Winters NYC had experienced in a hundred years. I’ve heard students at
Purchase say this more than once and believe it. The sidewalks are
almost
completely iced over. There are snow banks along each side of Fourth
St.,
under which I can just make out the occasional tire or bumper. I hold my
coat closed with my arms folded across my chest, my eyes looking down as
I
slither my way East. Each block seems a mile long, the ice and
continuing
withdrawals sapping what little strength I have left. I force myself to
go
on. Reaching Ave B. I turn right, and begin spotting signs that lead me
to
think I must be getting close. Dilapidated buildings and shady
characters
began to take precedence, no more nice, well kept buildings and
sidewalks
here. At the Corner of Second St and Ave. B I spot two guys across the
street, leaning against the wall drinking beer, one black guy and a
Hispanic cat. Taking a deep breath, I cross over.

“Hey, excuse me,” I start again. “I’m not a cop, but I am really very
dope
sick. I just got here from London and need to cop a bag of gear. Do you
know anywhere? Someone else directed me this far, but now I need a
little
help. I know this is forward, but I don’t know anyone so I have to ask.”

The Hispanic guy looks at me like I’m crazy then turns and walks away
without a word. The black guy stays.

“How ‘about some Silver Bullet?” he asks.

“What?” I think it’s some kind of threat at first, some kind of NYC
slang
I’ve never heard before.

“Dope m’man, it’s a brand name. Come on. This way.”

I follow him further south along Ave. B, then Clinton, what Ave. B
becomes
after crossing south of Houston. Almost everyone passing on the walk is
speaking Spanish. We walk another three blocks, until my guide points up
a
single flight of stairs to a landing where stands a young man wearing a
ski mask and bulky jacket. I check out the mask, then turn back to my
guide, but the guy is already walking away, not waiting for a thank you
or
a goodbye. I turn back to the figure at the top of the step.

“How many?” the kid asks.

“Just one,” I tell him, holding out my only $10 bill. Taking the plastic
rectangle offered, I have no way of knowing if this is real or not. I
have
to trust that it is, that I haven’t been ripped off. Now to find a
needle.
I only have a few more dollars and my return ticket to Purchase. Fifty
pound didn’t convert to that many dollars, just enough to get me to the
city and back and to buy one $10 bag. I walk back over to Houston St.,
searching for anyone who might know where I can buy a rig. The first
person I ask laughs at me.

“Why would you buy one when you can go around the corner to the Exchange
and get one for free?” he asks. “Ave C. and 4th St.” he tells me,
pointing
up the street behind me. I’m feeling like I’ve already walked miles,
much
further than I ever would while feeling healthy, much less while as sick
as I am now. There’s no alternative but to continue on, so I do,
slogging
through the cold and wind. I reach Ave. C and turn left, heading North
again, looking for a place that looks like a needle exchange. Back in
Amsterdam the Exchange I’d used was mainly a hole in a door through
which
I’d hand my used sets and receive new ones. In Atlanta, where I was
living
before heading to the Nederlands, I’d simply walk into a particular
pharmacy and buy a 10-pack of 1cc Insulin syringes. I didn’t know needle
exchanges even existed in the US. I eventually see a spot, a storefront
from which issue a steady stream of lowlife types, so I figure,
correctly
as it turns out, that it must be the place.

Just inside the door to the left is a table under which sits a huge tub,
into which clients drop their used rigs before claiming new ones from
the
volunteer behind the tub. Further down the line sit plastic baggies
filled
with all the accoutrements need to prepare a shot-plastic bags with
cookers, cotton, alcohol and bleach-as well as literature about how to
protect oneself from disease and bad drugs.

“Ever been here before?” A voice stops me as I make a move towards the
table. “You gotta sign in first.” All I want to do it get my needle and
go
get straight, but I keep my cool. It can’t take that long. “It’ll only
take a moment to register,” says the man speaking to me from behind
another table to the right of entering the door.

“Let’s get it over with. I’m sick as a dog and have to get straight as
soon as I can,” I tell the guy. My stomach is churning. This is often
the
very worst time for any heroin addict, the time between scoring and
actually getting my drugs inside me, especially since I shoot most of my
drugs, I rarely smoke or sniff them any more. I’m hunched over,
clutching
my abdomen tightly, trying to get warm and not shit my pants. The guy
takes my details, prints and laminates an Exchange card that is supposed
to protect me from arrest for possession of a hypodermic instrument. I
ask
him about the local dope, whether I need lemon juice or not to melt down
my heroin.

“No, no lemon juice, but listen, be extra careful pushing the shot in,
because some of the dope around here is very strong,” he tells me as he
hands me my brand new needle exchange card.

“Thank God,” I think to myself. “I hope to hell the dope’s incredibly
fucking strong, you moron.” I leave the Exchange, skating West, sliding
along the icy sidewalk as fast as I can go, looking for a bar or
restaurant, anywhere I can go to get in out of the public eye and
finally
get straight. I still haven’t found a good place when I reach Ave. A.
There I spot a likely looking little bar called Psycho Mongo, a
veritable
hole in the wall. Going in I order a soda and ask where the toilet is. I
have just enough cash for a drink, then go to the restroom.

Closing the door, I find the toilet is lit with a black light, something
I
discover later a lot of the bars do to discourage just this sort of
activity. It doesn’t stop or even slow me down. I tear open the plastic
packet, pulling out the wax envelope inside, which I in turn tear open
as
well. I’m shaking so hard I almost spill it everywhere when trying to
pour
out the contents into my cooker, but luckily manage ok. I look at the
heroin in the bottom of the cooker, but in this light I can’t make out
what color it is, or even how much there is. It sure doesn’t look like
much. I’m used to doing quarter gram shots at a time, and this is
definitely a lot less than that, not more than a tenth of a gram at
most.
I don’t care, so long as it’s real. I dab my finger at the edge of the
small pile of drugs, putting it to the tip of my tongue to taste. The
bitter taste tells me right away that it is real, though how cut with
filler I can’t tell from just tasting. It doesn’t matter at this point.
I
quickly mix in the water and heat it with my lighter. One thing that
makes
this easier than in London is that I don’t need lemon juice, the dope
melts into the water without it, just like the guy back at the Exchange
explained it to me. I drop a small piece of rolled up cotton into the
mixture, draw it up into my rig, then take my left arm out of my jacket
and sweater sleeves. Using the now empty sweater sleeve to tie off just
above my elbow, I feel for the vein in the dark, placing the tip of the
needle to the place I can feel with my fingertip. A quick jab, a slight
pull on the plunger to get blood into the rig, to be sure I’ve hit ok,
then I shove it in as fast as I can push. Loosening the sweater quickly,
to avoid blowing my vein, I sit down on the toilet and heave a sigh of
relief.

I can feel it coursing through my body, the heroin unclenching and
untwisting the knots in my muscles. The rush stops short of what I’d
really like, but that’s to be expected. My drugs are seldom as strong as
I
really would like them to be. I rarely get what I want out of my drugs,
just like out of the rest of my life. If I put as much energy into
living
as I do into my drugging, I could probably accomplish something.

I shake of these melancholy feelings, happy to finally be straight. I
don’t think about later, because that’ll just depress me again. I’m not
as
fucked up as I’d like, but I’m no longer feeling sick, at least until
tomorrow but that’s just some other time, to quote Lou Reed.

When I return to Purchase, I still feeling good. I hope my pupils aren’t
too noticeably pinned. I know my eyes are a dead giveaway to anyone who
knows me or about dope at all, so therefore try to avoid eye contact for
the rest of the evening. I hang out making small talk with various
students in the living room, until it’s just me, Bob and my girlfiend
left. Bob keeps watching me with a glint in his eye, obviously wondering
about something. While discussing my adventures that day in the city, I
mention having seen some really far out sculptures while walking up Ave
B.
in Alphabet City, Bob’s face registers a thought that he doesn’t express
aloud. He just nods to himself as though I’ve confirmed something to
him.
I’m not even really sure I see the nod it passes so fast.

Before retiring for the night, I grab the paper bag in which I’m
carrying
all my rigs and equipment, going into the bathroom to finish the tiny
amount of dope I have left in the bag. Then I go to bed.

The next day I go back into White Plains with my girlfiend, who is mad
that I went into the city and bought dope, more mad that I didn’t share
any with her. I’ll never please this woman I think. I’m able to move
around today without wanting to throw up the whole time, but I’m still
quite ill. Still unable to get any sleep at night, I toss and turn, the
kicking feeling worst when lying down. The girlfiend has taken to
kicking
and hitting me throughout the night, telling me to “keep the fuck still”
and other loving niceties. I’m tired and cranky and would rather
remained
lying on the floor at least one more day on campus before venturing out
on
another adventure.

We aimlessly wander around downtown White Plains for a while, making a
half-hearted attempt to find some dope to no avail. Giving up finally,
we
board the bus back to Purchase. We get in to Bob’s right away, just
beating a new snow storm.

A few minutes after entering, Bob comes out of his bedroom and asks the
girlfiend to come talk with him in his room, alone, right away. I sit
down
on the mattress behind the sofa as she walks off with Bob to the back of
the apartment. Lifting my duffle bag, I notice it’s open, and I could
swear I’d closed it before we left, sure of it because the paper bag
containing my rigs is in there. I’m suddenly sure what Bob is talking to
the girlfiend about. I don’t want to believe it, but my stomach
immediately drops. I know exactly what Bob thinks of heroin and those
who
use it, particularly “shooters” as Bob had referred to another old
acquaintance of his and my girlfiend. If this is what the problem is
though, why is Bob discussing it with my girlfiend and not me?

“This is not good,” I think as I change my clothes. The minutes drag by
and still no girlfiend. I am about to go knock on the door and ask
what’s
up when she finally appears, her face drawn and tight, red with anger.

“Come on, we’ve gotta go talk somewhere,” she barks as she grabs her own
jacket and heads out the door. “Grab your fucking jacket and let’s go!”

Embarrassed now, and still not entirely sure of what’s happening, I do
as
she says, following her out into the snow storm currently dropping
another
foot of snow on the campus.

“Bob doesn’t want you staying in the apartment any more,” she tells me
as
we work out way through the wind. “He says that if I want to I can stay,
but you have to go, now, tonight.” She’s angry, and I’m glad to see she
angrier at Bob than at me. “I told him you were kicking, and had come
here
expressly to do so, but he doesn’t care. He says that when moving our
stuff around while cleaning up the apartment today, that paper bag with
you rigs fell out on the floor. So they took a look inside it, and now
he
wants you gone. He doesn’t care that you’re quitting and doesn’t believe
it anyway. He says he saw you going into the bathroom with the bag last
night. Why, if you’re quitting, did you do that, he asked me. So you
have
to go tonight.”

The wind is brutal, blowing the snow directly at them from all
directions,
making us both extremely uncomfortable and very aware of the immediate
problem at hand. Where am I going to sleep tonight? And the next night,
and the night after? I don’t know anyone on campus except my girlfiend,
other than for those I’ve met at Bob’s. I have already garnered that
reputation I’ve been so concerned about up to now.

“Let’s go to the library,” she says, grabbing my hand. She leads and I
follow, lost in thought, once more trying to not panic and get angry at
things I cannot control, nor change now.

This wasn’t how I’d envisioned my return to the US. I’d more imagined
that
I’d meet up with my girlfiend, stay wherever it was that she’d have
found
for us in the four days she’d had prior to my own return, and that I’d
lay
up in bed kicking in peace and quiet before having to tackle any of
life’s
other complications. But my best laid plans are often for naught.
Somehow
I’m now facing sleeping out in the cold and snow, only my third night
back
in the States. I have no money, no friends, no place to crash. “What in
the hell am I doing back here?” I wonder silently. It’s difficult not to
give in to major regrets. If I could turn around and go back to London
I’d
do it in a heartbeat. I’d tuck my tail between my legs and take off
running, admitting defeat. I’ve got nowhere to run though, nowhere to go
to get away from my troubles, to escape, so I have to tough it out. I
feel
damned.

We continue toward the library, walking into the wind the entire way, my
tears of frustration mingling with those torn from my eyes by the wind.
We
find the library open and almost deserted. Who would bother heading out
in
this weather anyway? We make our way downstairs, to a long row of
closet-like cubicles, where we can find a bit of privacy. My girlfiend
steps into one, throws all her stuff on the floor within, then tells me
to
wait there for a minute. I ease myself onto the floor and cover up with
my
jacket. I can’t believe this is happening to me.

I’m almost asleep when she returns, carrying an armload of oversized
atlases, encyclopedias, and other large books, which she stacks up in
front of the cubicle window.

“I used to come sleep in here my first year at Purchase,” she tells me,
“to get away from everyone, to kind of hide out and get my bearings. We
should be ok here until closing time at least.”

“Great. Then what?” I wonder to myself, but don’t voice my concerns.
There’s no reason to piss her off at this point. But am I supposed to
live
in the library? “Phantom of the Library” passes through my mind, and I
giggle out loud. I picture myself lurking about the library shelves,
hiding from staff and students, stealing bag lunches and such, and
really
start to laugh out loud. She turns to me with a “shh” but I can’t help
myself and keep laughing. The ridiculousness of my situation has me in
hysterics. She starts to laugh along with me, not knowing what she’s
laughing about but enjoying the release of tension none the less. We sit
there on the floor, laughing together until we’re almost weeping.

Once we regain control, we curl up together in the corner under the desk
inside the cubicle, trying to be as quiet as possible, although that’s
probably useless considering the laughter we’ve been doing the past few
minutes. As I try to lie still, my muscles once again begin to kick, and
I
start rolling around, unable to keep still for more than a couple of
seconds. This drives my girlfiend crazy, right back into her “ultra
bitch”
state.

“Keep the fuck still!” She orders, punching me a couple of times to let
me
know she means it. I loose my temper in return, telling her to “leave
off
and shut the fuck up.” Pissed off and hateful, we both eventually pass
out.

Hours later, she shakes me awake. “Get your stuff, we gotta get out of
here.” There’s no one else in the library now other than the librarian
at
the front desk, who gives us the eye as we exit the building. She walks
us
over to the computer building, where we find an open classroom. She
tells
me to sleep in here for the rest of the night, and tomorrow we’ll come
up
with something else.

“Wait a minute,” I say. “Why am I putting myself through this? This is
crazy. I’m out of here tomorrow.”

“What do you mean, you’re ‘outta here’?” she asks, suddenly quiet.

“I mean, I’m out of here. We were supposed to be going to California
together, remember? Well, I’m sick of this shit here. I’m going, first
thing tomorrow.” I’m adamant. I don’t care if it is the middle of
Winter,
I can’t take this hell I’ve landed in. I’ve been told many time by many
different folk that San Francisco is my Mecca, that I’d thoroughly enjoy
that city and would fit right in.

“Are you nuts?” She asks. “How are you going to get there?”

“I’ll hitchhike. What do you care anyway?” I glare at her. She’s the
reason I’m here having all these problems, I think to myself,
conveniently
forgetting it was my decision to come back to the States, that no one,
not
even my girlfiend, put a gun to my head and forced me to undertake this
misadventure.

“It’s the middle of Winter and you’re sick,” she says. “Besides, I don’t
want you to leave yet, I love you. Wait until Spring at least, when the
weather is nicer. Then go.”

I can’t believe I’ve just heard this correctly. I stand there speechless
for a minute or two, staring at her with my mouth ajar. Then I let my
shoulders slump and shake my head.

“Get out of here,” I tell her. “I’ll see you in the morning, right?”

“Yeah, sure. Don’t do anything stupid, like leave campus without telling
me, ok?”

“Sure,” I answer. I turn my back as she leaves, then lie down on the
floor
under yet another desk, hopefully out of view of anyone or any guards
passing in the hallway outside the classroom. There’s an entire security
force of guards that patrol the campus, but if any pass that night I’m
totally unaware of them.

I wake early the next morning when the lights suddenly go on. Someone
enters the room with a cacophony of clattering and clanking. Rolling
over,
I climb to my feet to confront a wide-eyed and very surprised janitor.

“Hi there and good morning,” I tell him before bending back down to grab
my stuff, then head out the door.

The dope sickness still has not passed, though I am getting stronger and
a
wee bit better. Still, I’m miserable and depressed. There has to be some
way to get some relief. My mind is focused entirely on this thought. My
girlfiend has some class very early this morning, so I won’t see her for
a
couple more hours. I don’t know why she didn’t wake me before going to
class. Even with all the anger and the hitting, she’s the only friend I
have right now. We’ve been in a relationship for just over six months at
this point. To my perspective, we’ve got some history to our
relationship,
so I’m loath to give up just like that.

I’m not stopping to wonder about it. I have come up with a plan, and I’m
glad she is in class because I don’t think she’d like this one. I walk
to
the campus store. It’s mostly empty of students, and the clerk is busy
reading a magazine when I enter. She says, “Good morning” when I enter
and
then ignores me, burying her face back in the glossy pages of the
fashion
rag she’s reading. I’m not sure if they’re going to have what I’m
looking
for, but sure enough, at the very back of the store, in one of the only
places out of the clerk’s line of sight, there sits all the cold
medicines. Without checking to be sure no one is watching, I reach out,
grab a box of Nyquil Cold Medicine capsules, put it in my jacket pocket,
then go to the counter and order a cup of coffee. I can afford that,
even
if I have to steal the cold medicine.

Nyquil has something or other in it that helps people sleep, so I figure
that perhaps it’ll help me my body’s muscles settle down somewhat. I go
back to the still deserted library to find a quiet spot to carry out my
plan. Going downstairs, I enter the bathroom and lock myself into a stal
l.
I take out my paper bag containing all my works and equipment, then open
up the box of Nyquil. Laying everything out on the lid of the toilet, I
then open the box, ripping a couple of the green gel caps inside from
their wrapping. They feel so soft and fragile when I squeeze them
between
thumb and forefinger, but when I try to break one open, the outer shell
doesn’t do anything other than bend inwards without breaking. “Great,
now
what?” I think to myself in frustration. I’ve got my mind set on doing
this and am not about to just give up. I root around in my duffle bag
for
a moment until I find a razor blade. Holding one of the gel caps steady
between my fingers on the toilet seat lid and proceed to try and cut it
open. It seems for a moment this too won’t work, but then it gives. The
blade cuts almost all the way through the gel cap, causing me to almost
loose the contents all over the lid of the toilet, but I save it.
Picking
up both halves, I pour the contents into my cooker, the repeat the
process
with a couple more gel caps. I then add about ten mils of water to the
goo
in my cooker. Then I heat it, stirring with the back of my rig, heating
and reheating and adding teeny amounts of water, trying to dilute the
gook
in the cooker. I finally decide it’s as ready as it’s ever going to be,
then drop a small piece of cotton into the mix. Taking a set, I draw the
pink, gooey muck up into my rig. It takes a long time, and I look at the
end results a bit dubiously. It resembles nothing so much as hair gel
now,
and I hesitate.

“What the hell, it’s already in my set.” I think to myself, then tie
off.
I find the vein quickly and boot it in. After untying and sitting back,
my
ears begin to ring a bit and my chest has a localized ache right about
where I figure my heart must be, dead center of my chest. I don’t feel
much of anything beyond this slight discomfort. This isn’t working as
I’d
hoped, so I forego a second try. I eat two of the gel caps instead of
banging them, thinking that since I have them I may as well, that
perhaps
they’ll work better orally as they’re meant to be taken. I start to get
jittery, then realize way too late that the Nyquil has pseudoephedrine
in
it, which is only increasing the sensations of kicking instead of muting
them. Shit, yet another mistake on my part.

I walk out of the library into a crisp, bright Winter morning and sit on
a
bench in the cold, holding my head in my gloved hands, hoping the cold
air
will nullify my discomfort but it’s no good. I spend the morning in and
out of the restroom throwing up, generally miserable and hating myself
and
my life.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 2, 2005 at 12:26:38 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,

Can I come for dinner.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ms Iboga
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:31 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.
I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!
Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…
Julie
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Please unsubscribe me from this list
Date: March 2, 2005 at 12:24:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i used an old, well worn stuffed puppy to help me thru the hard times…ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Todd Morgan” <sovntm@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:04 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Please unsubscribe me from this list

I’ve looked for an automated routine on ibogaine.org
to unsubscribe from this list but to no avail…..

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Did you get the gig?
Date: March 2, 2005 at 12:25:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Gee mate,

Now I’m confused,..what do you mean by the”f*ck the past thread”
The only thread I can think of is when I wrote about certain drama’s
that happen in ones life and that we all have these drama’s and hurts.

Drama is relative,..so is hurt,..to me. (Is that the thread you are talking
about.)

“The story” the one you last wrote on the list about flying from one
country to the next,..hanging out when getting there,..being met by
a girlfriend who was studying,…you know,…pissing in the bottle and
missing.

love,
Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

>Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.<

Which one Jasen?
Sorry, please excuse my seeming confusion- I get that way sometimes.

And on a completely unrelated note (I think), what started the “f%#* your past” thread please? I think I missed something that coulda been somewhat interesting.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

Hello Preston,

My fingers are crossed at the moment,..it makes it hard to type.
Good luck matey. Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.

love to you and V,
Jasen.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)
Date: March 1, 2005 at 11:46:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Adam!!
I found tonight this:

http://www.salvialight.com/new/kratom.htm

<SNIP>”Kratom or Mambog is an extract that is produced from the MItragyna speciaosa tree that grows 6-9 feet in height and in excess of 40 feet in the right climates.
Found in Northeast Asia one can estimate the climate needed for this tree to thrive.
Thailand to New Guinea is the most common range.
The green oval leaves that the tree produces are prized for the paradoxical experience produced when the leaves are chewed, smoked or taken in the extract form. I find the plant most interesting due to the curative qualities that have been reported for addictions to opium.
As early as the 19th century the use of Kratom as a curative for opium addiction was reported being used. Said to satisfy the craving while alleviating the curbing the withdrawals.”<SNIP>

If you use to tapper H . Could you keep me informed ?
Love and Peace
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: Adam
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)

Does anyone know where to get kratom at a good price …. It seems almost or more expensive as heroin when all it is is leafs from a tree

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Dear list.
I have done last night some research on Kratom. Did anyone know what protocol is  in using this plant for heroine withdraw ?

Here what I found on another group
———————————————
“Kratom has historically been used by Buddhist monks in Thailand to
ease the withdrawal pangs of opium addicts. This is evidence that
kratom can at least partially substitute for opiates. What is important
clinically is that kratom can reportedly be substituted for opiates in
order to relieve opiate withdrawal (both physical symptoms and
craving), and then the dose of kratom itelf can be tapered without
severe withdrawal being experienced (mild withdrawal symptoms will
still be present though).
——————————-
PART ONE FROM A THREAD

:If kratom is
substituted for opiates by someone who is already opiate dependent, the
kratom will have to be reduced carefully to avoid reemergence of
troubling opiate withdrawal symptoms.

The physical withdrawal symptoms are similar to those of opiates,
but VERY MUCH milder. Nothing that some aspirin couldn’t take care
of. These symptoms include:
1. aching joints
2. slightly runny nose
3. mild nervousness
4. listlessness, lack of energy
I was pretty much back to normal in 24 hours. On a scale of 0 to 10,
with 10 as opium withdrawal, kratom “withdrawal” would be about
0.00001.
———————————-
PART TWO FROM A THREAD
Kratom is I think be a much more suitable ally
than opiates because:
1. there is MUCH less risk of addiction
2. (in the US) kratom is legal,
3. there is much less danger of overdosage using kratom than using
opiates. Fatal overdose so far as I know has not been reported with
kratom, although it certainly can occur with opiates.
4. it may be actually be easier to achieve a visionary state of
consciousness with kratom than is the case with opiates. I have the
impression that – perhaps because of the vague structural resemblance
of kratom alkaloids to ibogaine – they may be intrinsically more
visionary than the opiate alkaloids are.
PART THREE FROM A THREAD
My (continuing) use of both kratom and opiates bears out your
hypothesis. I have a health condition that allows me access to a
limited but periodic supply of opiates; on some weekends, I’ll take
both substances and compare effects. Kratom appears to have much more
visionary potential than opiates, especially with regard to
hypnagogic visions. The main advantage of the latter over the former
is the sheer unconditional comfort and bliss of the opiate experience
–and opiate visions, which do occur, though infrequently. Some of
that comfort/bliss can be approximated with medium-dose kratom, but
with increasing dosage, side-effects seriously interfere with one’s
enjoyment. On the positive side, the side effects might actually be a
blessing in disguise as they discourage heavy use and overdoses, the
kind of abuse that’s made opiates notorious.

God bless
Francis

PS. For dosage, quality and source, I have all the information.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeanine
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT)

I Need To Find An Effective Prescription That I Can Get Without A Doctor’s Consent To Get Off Of Heroin. Any Suggestions? This Is Serious! I’m Tired OF Battling This Disease & Depending On Heroin To Function. I Am In The Hole Financially & I Just Want To Get A Prescription To Deal With The Withdrawals & Cravings. Heroin Has Destroyed My Life. Where Can I Get A Prescription? Please Help Me. PLEASE!!

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT)

Matt:
Thanks for the thoughts in my situation.  I have never considered  the  options you present.  I would have to consult with the healer i referred to in my rant as this individual
is someone i respect and the only person w/ the balls on the list to step forward and offer to help  me  w/o bleeding me dry. Can i contact you off list or you contact me?  Again,  thank you very much as you have given me more insight into safeways to extricate myself from my fix…yeah, it’s all mine , although this benzo thing wasn’t presented  with the ending
i was hoping for.  Shame on me for not doing my homework.  Wishing you a peaceful path with my thanks, ron                                                                                                                                                                     &nbs p;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             &n bsp;
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT)

Hey man…I feel your pain…been there…..Have you considered cominig to Canada maybe renting a motel ordering Ibogaine from a chemical house here which would ship in less than a week?  Or maybe try contacting Iboga Therapy house ….its not free anymore its 1500$can i think….but thats better than spending 10000$…if i could help you with anything let me know …Im in Toronto..

Best Regards
—–Peace & Love—-
–Matt—

>From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT) >Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:29:06 -0600 > >not having done the ibo thing and wondering how in the hell i could afford 10 large for a session, i”m probably not qualified to speak on the list. hence i’ve reduced myself to lurking and reading the posts and making infrequent sarcastic statements because i’m jealous of the fact i’ve worked myself into a cross addicted state that precludes me from doing ibo now. benzos >seem to be the primary stumbling block although i’m slowly working it down thanks to the help of a person on the list that intervened to help me for no other reason than, at least i can see, to help me heal. benzos at mega doses for long periods of time really set the stage for a crash landing that seems unparallel when compared to all the other detoxes i have endured over the last forty years. they were always the last drug to go after doing a store in the 70’s when all the good stuff was used up. i fell into them a few yrs. back trying to beat an oxy habit that came from surgery. i “slipped” “relapsed” had a planned session or what ever but used after being chemically free for over a decade. no alcohol, no herb no no nuthin’ and i never thought about it, sobriety became a given and i did nothing to preserve it. > >this time around i have put everything i was blessed with achieving on the line and may lose it all before it’s over, only time will tell. my history is this: my drug of choice was whatever i could get my hands on at any given time. if i had bucks and a good H connection, i was a junkie. no H then pharmaceuticals, demerol, talwin, codeine, meth, methadone, maintenance, reduction. airplane glue, nose inhalers, paregoric(sic), antihistamines in the joint and of course always with a splash of alcohol. morning glory seeds, nutmeg, canned heat, gi gin, every freaking thing i could do. it was a fulltime job and eventually i reached a point where i could not get “right” from any drug out there because of my tolerances. when i chose to use again or slipped(oops!) i went back to that state immediately. > >now some folks on the list romanticize their use but i can’t do that. this stuff stripped me of every shred of dignity i possessed and took everything i ever had from me…women, jobs, family, money, friends…you name it, i lost it. i always carried a piece b/c someone was always looking for my ass and also b/c i never knew when it was going to get so bad i would have blow my brains out. i often struggled with pawning my gun so i could score b/c i couldn’t be sure when i would get the cash back in case i had to waste myself. > >i remember walking into the free community treatment house and getting turned away because i was known to be a bad influence on group therapy. i also remember being put into a jail cell after a big county wide sting, jonesing to the gills, only to realize that all 13 other inmates in there were dudes i had ripped off. i mastered verbal judo then. > >i can remember hooking up with younger guys so they could bring people around that were looking to score so i could rob them because i could not show my face on the streets of atlanta without getting shot. then once we scored the young guys would want to “get down and party” and i would say we didn’t have time because we had to get ready to go score again. the thing i liked best about cocaine was that after getting off, you were on auto pilot and had to score again, so no decisions to be made.as it was already made for me. > >point of this rant is this: i think anyone can get a jones on these opiates if they take them long enough, but then there’s losers like me who have a screw loose and just keep moving down a flight about the time i think i can’t sink any lower. today’s basement is tomorrow’s penthouse. wasn’t anything glamorous about my lifestyle and pimping my old lady and stealing from my parents. i suppose i was making choices but it didn’t feel like it at the time. and one thing’s indelibly imprinted in my brain, once i get a taste of anything, i’m going to get some more at whatever the cost. my life was and still is a cesspool and i pray i can slither out before someone takes me out. in my travels, i found out one other thing, if you have any doubts about your state of addiction or disease, just keep using, the answer will come. i consider it a pleasure to be allowed to follow your accounts and wish all a peaceful path, ron > >

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Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] paging mr. morrison. You alive patrick?
Date: March 1, 2005 at 11:42:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO, speaking of Mr. Morrison, I mean Kroupa 😉
Patrick, are you alive?

Not that you ever answer email but you vanished before
NY too and haven’t said anything here in weeks. You ok
or in jail or dead?

Only checking 😉

If you are dead I’m going to feel a lot of guilt for
writing this but somehow I doubt it, you have too many
lives.

Carla B

— Eye of the Bhogi <freedomroot@gmail.com> wrote:

At 09:51 -0800 24-02-2005, Steven Anker wrote:

“ibogaine is a bunch of crazy white guys.” True. I
wish more of
these crazy white guys would go to Gabon and hang
with the Bwiti.

Please don’t!
pc

The forum *was* very male-ish, at the risk of
sounding genderist.
Pissing contests?  Male bonding in the wilderness,
like that scene in
The Doors movie… we’re a tribe, a tribe of
warriors… uh, oh, wait,
wait a second… fire in the sky, planes burning
ozone, privileged
folks mobilizing their resources to extract the
indigenous capital, I
mean cultural property, I mean spiritual beings, but
that’s not
politicized.  Oh no.  Not political at all.

Gesturing towards unity and trying to find the
discipline to write
about earth gifts and the Mother.
love from fresh meadows, rachel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Cheryl” <cherylca@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] ot: congrats to Preston
Date: March 1, 2005 at 11:10:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didn’t understand this either unless there’s more to the story which there proabbly is. In most states having some pot means they write you a ticket unless you act up, eating the pot turned it into a felony.

— On Tue 03/01, Steven Anker < stevenanker@hotmail.com > wrote:
From: Steven Anker [mailto: stevenanker@hotmail.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:51:25 -0800
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot: congrats to Preston

Glad to know that you are such a shill for the man that you would  <br>surpress such a story as Dana involve in a high-speed police chase in  <br>NM with a crazed Indian at the wheel. Perhaps a job for you in the  <br>White House press corps. “Mr. President, how do you do it, you look  <br>great!” Come on, this is comedy?! This is Hunter! Why no possession? He  <br>ate it. Now in NM possession for under an oz is a petty misdemeanor, a  <br>ticket. So his big crime was eating it. Comedy is often not pretty. Of  <br>course I don’t know what happened, but I held you in such high  <br>journalistic regard before this.

_______________________________________________
No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Bwiti and confession
Date: March 1, 2005 at 10:52:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi List!!
Was reading some stuff on Ibogaine and I found something on the Bwiti credo.
Is  fascinating for me to find out that they believe thet a full confession is necessary before using Ibogaine :

In all Bwiti sects, initiation is considered to be a direct contact between man and the Divine and this is triggered by the ingestion of iboga root in large quantities: 50-100 times the quantity used during the ordinary collective ngozé. The person to be initiated must ingest it in repeated small doses within a 8-14 hour time-span. The ingestion of the hallucinogen is preceded by a ritual offering to the forest and to its trees, and also by a confession pronounced before the presiding officiants. The confession concerns the entire past of the individual. According to the Fang people, sins of an antisocial nature are by far the worst. In the event of non-confession of sins, it is thought that the effect of iboga can trigger a “bad trip” with unpredictable consequences, leading to madness or – should the concealed sin be homicide – even to the death of the person being initiated. There is only one confession and it is made once in a lifetime, during the first part of the initiation.”

Same principles of AA / NA   Where they believe that you cant have a full recovery if you don’t unload the weight of sins ?/!

This text is a http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16779

God bless
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house

Summer house is known as ‘GET OFF HOUSE” tHE DOCTOR IS NEBER THERE ABD THEY ARE ALL ABOUT THE $.

Lets barage them with e-mails. How dare they trash Ibo when they used to refer patients to Eric taub. Fuck them

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ot: congrats to Preston
Date: March 1, 2005 at 10:51:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

Congratulations! Really ? You? Playing a junkie?

Casting for type  as we say.

It would be a pleasure, no an honor, to suck your dick when you come to LA. WAIT! I’ve read what you’re on. Wouldn’t you have  trouble getting it up? Well, an honor none the less.

I’ll teach you yoga, feed you a few steaks and get you tanned up. You will feel and look great. Unfortunately the producers hate the new you, you loose everything and become another bum on the street with failed acting  dreams. Show-biz, babe.

Glad to know that you are such a shill for the man that you would surpress such a story as Dana involve in a high-speed police chase in NM with a crazed Indian at the wheel. Perhaps a job for you in the White House press corps. “Mr. President, how do you do it, you look great!” Come on, this is comedy?! This is Hunter! Why no possession? He ate it. Now in NM possession for under an oz is a petty misdemeanor, a ticket. So his big crime was eating it. Comedy is often not pretty. Of course I don’t know what happened, but I held you in such high journalistic regard before this.

An old dope-fiend buddy wrote me this about Hunter:

Of course, what fool with a whit of creative talent and a taste for talent-obscuring intoxicants doesn’t mourn the loss of HST?  He gave us all the excuse we needed to get as fucked up as possible in hopes that the answers were on the other side of that tunnel, and if not, at least we’d enjoy the spelunking. Remember – everything HST did from about 1983 til about 1999 sucked.  And now look, he’s getting the Ronald Reagan”greatest man in history” treatment.

Peace and for once I’ll be getting some real love from you Preston,
Steve.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [Ibogaine
Date: March 1, 2005 at 10:11:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy,…maaaaate,

All those blow jobs will leave you with no energy.

love ya mate.
Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanks for Steve’s thoughts for pc

In a message dated 2/28/2005 2:13:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:
Hey, you lighten up Butthead. If blowing you is what it takes to be friends,
then next time you are out West, please give a call, as that is what  us
West Coast boys do to be polite. Joking. Ahhh, come on, I never make you
smile or laugh? Buddy? I’ll never pick on you again. I’m sorry. And hey,
being the fly in the soup isn’t fun for the fly. I’ll stop writing if it
does harm, not good. We all want the same thing
Steve, yea you make me laugh, a lot of times. I much prefer it that way. I had a bad day yesterday, and I guess I was too sensitive. I’ll cop to being excitable, it makes me who I am. It’s hard to judge people’s intentions when you can’t see their face when they talk. You were the first person to welcome me to the list. I should have remembered that. If what you said hadn’t hit so close to home, I wouldn’t have gotten pissed, and I reflected all day about it. I try and be as honest as I can, it keeps things real for me, but it leaves me wide open for misinterpretation. I don’t mean to romanticize hard drug use, hell, it almost killed me, but it’s what I know. I guess when I talk in such a manner I’m really trying to tell myself I’m not such a fuckup for doing all that dope. Damn, life can be deep can’t it? I’m growing, thanx for helping me to do so.              Randy

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mexico, summer house
Date: March 1, 2005 at 9:36:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Summer house is known as ‘GET OFF HOUSE” tHE DOCTOR IS NEBER THERE ABD THEY ARE ALL ABOUT THE $.

Lets barage them with e-mails. How dare they trash Ibo when they used to refer patients to Eric taub. Fuck them

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!
Date: March 1, 2005 at 5:18:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence.<

But not for possession? Weird.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!

.:vector:.

YIPPIE FOUNDER ARRESTED IN NEW MEXICO Dana Beal, a founding member of
the 1960’s group the Youth International Party, or Yippies, has been
arrested in Tohatchi, N.M., on the Navajo Indian reservation. The
Navajo police said Mr. Beal and a companion were stopped Friday for
speeding and that Mr. Beal, a passenger, was observed eating what Mr.
Beal said was marijuana. A Manhattan resident and organizer of
pro-marijuana marches, Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence. He was released Saturday after pleading not guilty and
posting a $5,000 cash bond.Joseph Kolb (NYT)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports – Sign up for Fantasy Baseball.
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (way ot) Re: [Ibogaine] junkies on film
Date: March 1, 2005 at 5:12:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Go see Steve and take him up on his offer to me when you go to LA. LOL<

I hadn’t even thought of that- maybe I will come to think of it.
Steven? You could blow me AND give me yoga lessons.
;-))
I’m sorry, this is so way off topic, but hey, it’s been one of those very, very strange days.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junkies on film

Preston, that’s so great to hear man, I was hoping for ya. Go see Steve and take him up on his offer to me when you go to LA. LOL  Way cool my brutha. Maybe the travel will get your mind off of pain for a little while. Go have fun.   Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!
Date: March 1, 2005 at 5:09:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sometimes friendship comes before the scoop.
It’s tough sitting on a story like this, knowing I could get it published but not really wanting to due to Dana being a friend and having had someone close to him ask me to please sit on the story.
But it’s out now, and I hope everyone thinks good strong thoughts for our friend Dana.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!

.:vector:.

YIPPIE FOUNDER ARRESTED IN NEW MEXICO Dana Beal, a founding member of
the 1960’s group the Youth International Party, or Yippies, has been
arrested in Tohatchi, N.M., on the Navajo Indian reservation. The
Navajo police said Mr. Beal and a companion were stopped Friday for
speeding and that Mr. Beal, a passenger, was observed eating what Mr.
Beal said was marijuana. A Manhattan resident and organizer of
pro-marijuana marches, Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence. He was released Saturday after pleading not guilty and
posting a $5,000 cash bond.Joseph Kolb (NYT)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports – Sign up for Fantasy Baseball.
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Dana! Dana! Dana!
Date: March 1, 2005 at 3:35:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

.:vector:.

YIPPIE FOUNDER ARRESTED IN NEW MEXICO Dana Beal, a founding member of
the 1960’s group the Youth International Party, or Yippies, has been
arrested in Tohatchi, N.M., on the Navajo Indian reservation. The
Navajo police said Mr. Beal and a companion were stopped Friday for
speeding and that Mr. Beal, a passenger, was observed eating what Mr.
Beal said was marijuana. A Manhattan resident and organizer of
pro-marijuana marches, Mr. Beal was charged with felony tampering with
evidence. He was released Saturday after pleading not guilty and
posting a $5,000 cash bond.Joseph Kolb (NYT)

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports – Sign up for Fantasy Baseball.
http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] junkies on film
Date: March 1, 2005 at 3:25:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, that’s so great to hear man, I was hoping for ya. Go see Steve and take him up on his offer to me when you go to LA. LOL  Way cool my brutha. Maybe the travel will get your mind off of pain for a little while. Go have fun.   Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] junkies on film
Date: March 1, 2005 at 3:10:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
So everyone, I was SURE I’d blown the audition this morning, but apparently not, as I just got the call that I not only booked a day of shooting tomorrow, but also 2 or 3 or 4 MORE days of shooting out in LA too sometime this month- which is doubly cool as I’ve never been to LA.
Should be interesting too, as I’ve not made long distance travel in quite some time and I’m hurting a LOT lately.
So, again, thanks everyone. I appreciate the thoughts and words passed my way on and off list.
OK, back to the War and the suckiness of prohibition- and keep in mind that there is also a
BRIGHT SIDE TO DRUG USE.
LOL!!!!!

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Editor “Undergound- The Disinformation Guide to Ancient Civilizations, Astonishing Archeology and Hidden History” (due out Sept. 2005)
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.
Date: March 1, 2005 at 1:39:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think ekki did in response to all the very long
messianic messages about analyzing your past forever
😉

I press delete a lot and don’t worry about it. Sara I
hope you do the same thing, I’d much rather have a few
words from you then 300 screen fulls of arguments
about ‘spirituality’ and drug addiction 😉

Carla B

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.<

Which one Jasen?
Sorry, please excuse my seeming confusion- I get
that way sometimes.

And on a completely unrelated note (I think), what
started the “f%#* your
past” thread please? I think I missed something that
coulda been somewhat
interesting.

Peace and love,
Preston

__________________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hannah- valium/diazepam
Date: March 1, 2005 at 12:31:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,

Sweetie, PLEASE don’t use valium more than you have to.  I have seen a woman try to come off those things, and it wasn’t pretty.  If you think opiates are hard to detox from, benzos are a veritable nightmare- we’re talking seizures, blackouts and the whole she-bang.
I know it sounds cliche, but having a well-balanced diet has REALLY helped me with anxiety and stress.  Just last night, and upon my provider’s recommendation, I made Chicken Jambalaya, with tons of veggies, brown/wild rice and yummy spices.  For hours after we ate it, my boyfriend and I couldn’t stop giggling and flirting…it felt like a natural high, as does organic dark chocolate, Chai tea, and fruit smoothies with gingko biloba.  There is a great organic chocolate bar with small pieces of ginger in it- oh my god, girl, you gotta try it!
Please email me offlist if you ever wanna chat..thinking of you, babe…
Julie
__________________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.
Date: March 1, 2005 at 12:26:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.<

Which one Jasen?
Sorry, please excuse my seeming confusion- I get that way sometimes.

And on a completely unrelated note (I think), what started the “f%#* your past” thread please? I think I missed something that coulda been somewhat interesting.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.

Hello Preston,

My fingers are crossed at the moment,..it makes it hard to type.
Good luck matey. Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.

love to you and V,
Jasen.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Effexor-Schmoolyboy
Date: March 1, 2005 at 11:53:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hanna,

I tried effexor and was hallucinating and having bad nightmares within a week.  None of the psycotropic (sp) drugs worked for me and I have tried about 10 going back 30 years or so.  What they often do is try one drug and if it does not work try another.  The Columbine high school kids were on SSRIs, the mother in Texas who drowned her kid was on several SSRIs, it can be a dangerous drug.  If you go to rense.com and go to the bottom of the home page they have a search engine where you can look up some of the side effects.  Also, I was using a fraction of what a normal dose would be.  They never mention it but it can be hard getting off, in other words it can be habit forming.  I doubt if you doc will give you valium.  I think valium is much better, but docs do not like to give it out, they will give you SSRIs by the handful but something like valium that has been around for many many years they won’t give it to you.  I really don’t know what to say but thoughts of suicide often come to mind when first taken (it did for me).  England banned all SSRIs for those under 18 yrs old except for Prozac.  I can only say tell your doc what is going on and maybe change docs if necessary and maybe you could get by on something like St Johns Wart which is a herb and mild SSRI.  Sometimes they use anticonvulsant drugs for depression.  It is called off shelf use.  Which means while it is not made for depression, once is it legal they can use it for that purpose.  For me they did not really help the depression much but there were little if any side effects.  Maybe you could seek the docs opinion on something like this.

I wish you the best, one more thing.  A shrink usually talks to you for 15 minutes then offers a SSRI pill while a therapist will listen to your problems and maybe offer solutions that you may not thought of and you may be able to live without the SSRI’s.  If you have strange thoughts of harming yourself or others do not take them lightly, say something.  I know a guy, a Vietnam Vet who was getting a shopping bag full of drugs from the VA and he ended it all.  That’s why many vets avoid the VA hospitals.

I’ll say a prayer for you and try and send positive and healing energy your way,

– JIM

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
I’m on 150mg of Effexor XL per day.  I’m interested in what you said about it increasing anxiety as I suffer from that aswell as depression.  Sounds like Effexor may not be helping?  I’ve been on it probably a year and can’t say I’ve noticed much difference except that I can’t cope physically or emotionally if I miss more than one days worth.  I was going to ask my Doc if he would give me valium as I get so anxious and cry all the time and can’t cope with seeing people, even close friends, even though the isolation then makes my depression worse!  I used to be on Prozac and that made my anxiety worse.  I’ve used Cipramil too but didn’t notice much difference.  My ex says I should just stop them all together and sort my head out straight but he doesn’t know how scary depression can be.  Any info would be appreciated!

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] 5-HTP

effexor increases serotonin initially and after 2 weeks also increase epinephrine thus increasing anxiety

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)
Date: March 1, 2005 at 9:50:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know where to get kratom at a good price …. It seems almost
or more expensive as heroin when all it is is leafs from a tree

the cheapest i’ve found is at iamshaman.com, $8.99 for an ounce. that’s
enough for about 2 regular doses. i’d advise against the resin extract; it
never did anything for me. haven’t tried the “premium powder” yet.

j0n

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From: Adam <keysers420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Kratom an Ally for opiate withdraw? .(OT)
Date: March 1, 2005 at 6:31:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know where to get kratom at a good price …. It seems almost or more expensive as heroin when all it is is leafs from a tree

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Dear list.
I have done last night some research on Kratom. Did anyone know what protocol is  in using this plant for heroine withdraw ?

Here what I found on another group
———————————————
“Kratom has historically been used by Buddhist monks in Thailand to
ease the withdrawal pangs of opium addicts. This is evidence that
kratom can at least partially substitute for opiates. What is important
clinically is that kratom can reportedly be substituted for opiates in
order to relieve opiate withdrawal (both physical symptoms and
craving), and then the dose of kratom itelf can be tapered without
severe withdrawal being experienced (mild withdrawal symptoms will
still be present though).
——————————-
PART ONE FROM A THREAD

:If kratom is
substituted for opiates by someone who is already opiate dependent, the
kratom will have to be reduced carefully to avoid reemergence of
troubling opiate withdrawal symptoms.

The physical withdrawal symptoms are similar to those of opiates,
but VERY MUCH milder. Nothing that some aspirin couldn’t take care
of. These symptoms include:
1. aching joints
2. slightly runny nose
3. mild nervousness
4. listlessness, lack of energy
I was pretty much back to normal in 24 hours. On a scale of 0 to 10,
with 10 as opium withdrawal, kratom “withdrawal” would be about
0.00001.
———————————-
PART TWO FROM A THREAD
Kratom is I think be a much more suitable ally
than opiates because:
1. there is MUCH less risk of addiction
2. (in the US) kratom is legal,
3. there is much less danger of overdosage using kratom than using
opiates. Fatal overdose so far as I know has not been reported with
kratom, although it certainly can occur with opiates.
4. it may be actually be easier to achieve a visionary state of
consciousness with kratom than is the case with opiates. I have the
impression that – perhaps because of the vague structural resemblance
of kratom alkaloids to ibogaine – they may be intrinsically more
visionary than the opiate alkaloids are.
PART THREE FROM A THREAD
My (continuing) use of both kratom and opiates bears out your
hypothesis. I have a health condition that allows me access to a
limited but periodic supply of opiates; on some weekends, I’ll take
both substances and compare effects. Kratom appears to have much more
visionary potential than opiates, especially with regard to
hypnagogic visions. The main advantage of the latter over the former
is the sheer unconditional comfort and bliss of the opiate experience
–and opiate visions, which do occur, though infrequently. Some of
that comfort/bliss can be approximated with medium-dose kratom, but
with increasing dosage, side-effects seriously interfere with one’s
enjoyment. On the positive side, the side effects might actually be a
blessing in disguise as they discourage heavy use and overdoses, the
kind of abuse that’s made opiates notorious.

God bless
Francis

PS. For dosage, quality and source, I have all the information.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jeanine
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT)

I Need To Find An Effective Prescription That I Can Get Without A Doctor’s Consent To Get Off Of Heroin. Any Suggestions? This Is Serious! I’m Tired OF Battling This Disease & Depending On Heroin To Function. I Am In The Hole Financially & I Just Want To Get A Prescription To Deal With The Withdrawals & Cravings. Heroin Has Destroyed My Life. Where Can I Get A Prescription? Please Help Me. PLEASE!!

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT)

Matt:
Thanks for the thoughts in my situation.  I have never considered  the  options you present.  I would have to consult with the healer i referred to in my rant as this individual
is someone i respect and the only person w/ the balls on the list to step forward and offer to help  me  w/o bleeding me dry. Can i contact you off list or you contact me?  Again,  thank you very much as you have given me more insight into safeways to extricate myself from my fix…yeah, it’s all mine , although this benzo thing wasn’t presented  with the ending
i was hoping for.  Shame on me for not doing my homework.  Wishing you a peaceful path with my thanks, ron                                                                                                                                                                     &nbs p;                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             &n bsp;
—– Original Message —–
From: matthew zielinski
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT)

Hey man…I feel your pain…been there…..Have you considered cominig to Canada maybe renting a motel ordering Ibogaine from a chemical house here which would ship in less than a week?  Or maybe try contacting Iboga Therapy house ….its not free anymore its 1500$can i think….but thats better than spending 10000$…if i could help you with anything let me know …Im in Toronto..

Best Regards
—–Peace & Love—-
–Matt—

>From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net> >Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com >To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com> >Subject: [Ibogaine] addict, junkie, alkie, jerk, spineless weak willed , punk, whatever..(OT) >Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:29:06 -0600 > >not having done the ibo thing and wondering how in the hell i could afford 10 large for a session, i”m probably not qualified to speak on the list. hence i’ve reduced myself to lurking and reading the posts and making infrequent sarcastic statements because i’m jealous of the fact i’ve worked myself into a cross addicted state that precludes me from doing ibo now. benzos >seem to be the primary stumbling block although i’m slowly working it down thanks to the help of a person on the list that intervened to help me for no other reason than, at least i can see, to help me heal. benzos at mega doses for long periods of time really set the stage for a crash landing that seems unparallel when compared to all the other detoxes i have endured over the last forty years. they were always the last drug to go after doing a store in the 70’s when all the good stuff was used up. i fell into them a few yrs. back trying to beat an oxy habit that came from surgery. i “slipped” “relapsed” had a planned session or what ever but used after being chemically free for over a decade. no alcohol, no herb no no nuthin’ and i never thought about it, sobriety became a given and i did nothing to preserve it. > >this time around i have put everything i was blessed with achieving on the line and may lose it all before it’s over, only time will tell. my history is this: my drug of choice was whatever i could get my hands on at any given time. if i had bucks and a good H connection, i was a junkie. no H then pharmaceuticals, demerol, talwin, codeine, meth, methadone, maintenance, reduction. airplane glue, nose inhalers, paregoric(sic), antihistamines in the joint and of course always with a splash of alcohol. morning glory seeds, nutmeg, canned heat, gi gin, every freaking thing i could do. it was a fulltime job and eventually i reached a point where i could not get “right” from any drug out there because of my tolerances. when i chose to use again or slipped(oops!) i went back to that state immediately. > >now some folks on the list romanticize their use but i can’t do that. this stuff stripped me of every shred of dignity i possessed and took everything i ever had from me…women, jobs, family, money, friends…you name it, i lost it. i always carried a piece b/c someone was always looking for my ass and also b/c i never knew when it was going to get so bad i would have blow my brains out. i often struggled with pawning my gun so i could score b/c i couldn’t be sure when i would get the cash back in case i had to waste myself. > >i remember walking into the free community treatment house and getting turned away because i was known to be a bad influence on group therapy. i also remember being put into a jail cell after a big county wide sting, jonesing to the gills, only to realize that all 13 other inmates in there were dudes i had ripped off. i mastered verbal judo then. > >i can remember hooking up with younger guys so they could bring people around that were looking to score so i could rob them because i could not show my face on the streets of atlanta without getting shot. then once we scored the young guys would want to “get down and party” and i would say we didn’t have time because we had to get ready to go score again. the thing i liked best about cocaine was that after getting off, you were on auto pilot and had to score again, so no decisions to be made.as it was already made for me. > >point of this rant is this: i think anyone can get a jones on these opiates if they take them long enough, but then there’s losers like me who have a screw loose and just keep moving down a flight about the time i think i can’t sink any lower. today’s basement is tomorrow’s penthouse. wasn’t anything glamorous about my lifestyle and pimping my old lady and stealing from my parents. i suppose i was making choices but it didn’t feel like it at the time. and one thing’s indelibly imprinted in my brain, once i get a taste of anything, i’m going to get some more at whatever the cost. my life was and still is a cesspool and i pray i can slither out before someone takes me out. in my travels, i found out one other thing, if you have any doubts about your state of addiction or disease, just keep using, the answer will come. i consider it a pleasure to be allowed to follow your accounts and wish all a peaceful path, ron > >

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: RE: Thoughts for pc
Date: March 1, 2005 at 5:04:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara
Hope you are well, it would be a great loss if you were to leave the list, I think you help people a great deal with your advice and input and if only there were more people like you the world would be a much kinder more undersatanding, the next time I am in Holland I hope to come and see you if that is still ok with you.

With love
Donna xx

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Thanks for Steve’s thoughts for pc
Date: March 1, 2005 at 4:58:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 2/28/2005 2:13:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:
Hey, you lighten up Butthead. If blowing you is what it takes to be friends,
then next time you are out West, please give a call, as that is what  us
West Coast boys do to be polite. Joking. Ahhh, come on, I never make you
smile or laugh? Buddy? I’ll never pick on you again. I’m sorry. And hey,
being the fly in the soup isn’t fun for the fly. I’ll stop writing if it
does harm, not good. We all want the same thing
Steve, yea you make me laugh, a lot of times. I much prefer it that way. I had a bad day yesterday, and I guess I was too sensitive. I’ll cop to being excitable, it makes me who I am. It’s hard to judge people’s intentions when you can’t see their face when they talk. You were the first person to welcome me to the list. I should have remembered that. If what you said hadn’t hit so close to home, I wouldn’t have gotten pissed, and I reflected all day about it. I try and be as honest as I can, it keeps things real for me, but it leaves me wide open for misinterpretation. I don’t mean to romanticize hard drug use, hell, it almost killed me, but it’s what I know. I guess when I talk in such a manner I’m really trying to tell myself I’m not such a fuckup for doing all that dope. Damn, life can be deep can’t it? I’m growing, thanx for helping me to do so.              Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FW: RE: Thoughts for pc/Sara
Date: March 1, 2005 at 4:44:12 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Ekki,

all that attack defense mechanism isn’t in my liking at this moment of my
life, when the world around isn’t promising much brighter future to most
Brothers and sisters humans.
I like to keep it simple when there are so many complications.

So, I stay for a while and see, I know I have a delete button here,
You know how powerful the mind is and what people radiate is powerful too.
All those babbling are not meaningless but making more complications.

Personally , I try to prevent making a complex situation more complex,
I rather as I said, keep it simple. That were my thoughts.

Wishing you all the best,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: ekki [mailto:ekkijdfg@gmx.de]
Verzonden: dinsdag 1 maart 2005 10:01
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: RE: Thoughts for pc/Sara

Am 28.02.2005 um 21:00 schrieb Sara Glatt:

It isn’t surprising to me that Peter C. left this list,
I’m thinking about it myself.

Sara

Sara, please don´t! please stay!

the comments you gave about treating my friend have me helped a lot and
i´m sure you help others with your contributions, too.

as you know mailing lists have a character similar to spoken
communication, not everything uttered should be put on golden scales
and most stuff is not that relevant. its just people babbling.

on a technical level there are a lot of timesaving ways how to deal
with maillinglists so that you don´t have to read everything and can
pick only whats interesting for you.

in case you have a slow internet-connection: i promise not to upload
1MB of soundfiles anymore and instead will use links in future.

fondest regards
ekki

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] f%#* your past
Date: March 1, 2005 at 4:04:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 01.03.2005 um 07:37 schrieb <slowone@hush.ai>:

The mind is the past. I think, therefore I was.

i always wondered where descartes erred, but this explains it.

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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FW: RE: Thoughts for pc/Sara
Date: March 1, 2005 at 4:01:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 28.02.2005 um 21:00 schrieb Sara Glatt:

It isn’t surprising to me that Peter C. left this list,
I’m thinking about it myself.

Sara

Sara, please don´t! please stay!

the comments you gave about treating my friend have me helped a lot and i´m sure you help others with your contributions, too.

as you know mailing lists have a character similar to spoken communication, not everything uttered should be put on golden scales and most stuff is not that relevant. its just people babbling.

on a technical level there are a lot of timesaving ways how to deal with maillinglists so that you don´t have to read everything and can pick only whats interesting for you.

in case you have a slow internet-connection: i promise not to upload 1MB of soundfiles anymore and instead will use links in future.

fondest regards
ekki

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] f%#* your past
Date: March 1, 2005 at 3:12:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

After reading all the email here which is 20 screens
long and full of smart people who will never agree on
anything.

I really enjoyed this 🙂

Thank you Vigilius

Carla B

— Vigilius Haufniensis
<thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Karma Repair Kit:
Items 1-4
by Richard Brautigan

1. Get enough food to eat,
and eat it.
2. Find a place to sleep where it is quiet,
and sleep there.

3. Reduce intellectual and emotional noise
until you arrive at the silence of yourself,
and listen to it.

4.

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__________________________________
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From: ekki <ekkijdfg@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] f%#* your past
Date: March 1, 2005 at 3:03:18 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Am 01.03.2005 um 10:03 schrieb Vigilius Haufniensis:

Karma Repair Kit:
Items 1-4
by Richard Brautigan

1. Get enough food to eat,
and eat it.
2. Find a place to sleep where it is quiet,
and sleep there.

3. Reduce intellectual and emotional noise
until you arrive at the silence of yourself,
and listen to it.

4.

point 4 is nice!
why do they all have to shoot themselves?

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] f%#* your past
Date: March 1, 2005 at 4:03:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Karma Repair Kit:
Items 1-4
by Richard Brautigan

1. Get enough food to eat,
and eat it.
2. Find a place to sleep where it is quiet,
and sleep there.

3. Reduce intellectual and emotional noise
until you arrive at the silence of yourself,
and listen to it.

4.

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Second omnibus reply to P. Cohen & the List
Date: March 1, 2005 at 1:38:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder if Peter venerates anything.

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:38:11 -0800 Peter Cohen <cohen.cedro@uva.nl>
wrote:
Okay. I agree. Most are no fools, but this
veneration of a drug ( by at least some of them)
is quite pathetic sometimes.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] f%#* your past
Date: March 1, 2005 at 1:37:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The mind is the past. I think, therefore I was.

the mind digests past by itself, you donīt have to do anything for

it.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <jasenhappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] legs crossed too.
Date: March 1, 2005 at 1:03:17 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Preston,

My fingers are crossed at the moment,..it makes it hard to type.
Good luck matey. Hey,..still waiting for part two of that story.

love to you and V,
Jasen.

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