Ibogaine List Archives – 2004-08

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 1, 2004 at 12:00:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 04:41 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Thanks for the line Howard.

Sean (who is hearing shamanistic ancient healing voices in his head.)

don’t let the voices in yer head git louder than the music in yer heart

_.dh

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: September 1, 2004 at 12:00:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There is ibogaine substitution therapy.  Want crack, snort some ibogaine
instead.  Just a line.

moohahahahahah!

talk about nasal burn!

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 11:39:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’re another person here who has gotten more weird as years have
passed 🙂 I love this place, Sara I want to do ibogaine with you! 🙂 🙂
🙂

.:vector:.

— sara119@xs4all.nl wrote:

God is a mystery of mastery.

kiss a koala of me,they look so funny.

sara

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UUSean, belief, …
Date: August 31, 2004 at 11:37:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Darth Vader on acid gives great advice 😉 He’s clean and that should be
impossible, the first step as near as I’ve figured out is become a
complete psycho right patrick 😉 which shouldn’t be a problem for
anyone on this list. step 2 is just believe. Great belief system! I
keep seeing it working here 🙂 why argue with success 🙂

.:vector:.

— UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Dark,

Yes, I have said before that I think that belief is key.  If I
believe
I cannot put down heroin and crack and lead a different life, then I
won’t.  I did not believe that I could go to NYC alone without
visiting
the crack spot. I was right.  Saturday night I was in NY alone, I
believed that I could would not look for crack…I did not look for
it.

I think that 12 step works that way for those for whom it works.
One
believes their higher power will keep them clean, and (S)he does.
Right now I believe that activism and this list will keep me off
crack,
and it does.

All of this change is post ibo.  I did believe in the ibogaine
too.
And the stories of those who had dosed before me.  The treatment
links
on the ibogaine.mindvox page were very helpful in my understanding of

recovery.  Patrick in particular concerning the importance of belief.

And the advise to be more cool.  I liked that a lot too, especially

when I feel like being an asshole. Of course sometimes I cannot
resist.  What is it the 12 steppers say, “progress not perfection.”
I
sure don’t want to get too close to perfect to fast.  I’m having too
much fun flawed.:)

UUsean

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 11:14:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think organizing is a wonderful idea.  Doing so without breeding dogma will be tricky.  I’m curious, what exactly would be the difference between a union and patient advocacy groups?
I think the boldest thing that could be done is to open a church right here in the US.  A real, certified and sincere church.  I think this is the most productive path, but I know little.
Who can deny iboga is a divine plant.
It is so great to hear about so much action.  ‘Tis Inspiring.

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: sara119@xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 11:07:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

Hi Jasen,

Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.

***> Dear Sara,I understand.

It isn’t about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it
you
are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.

***Fun sounds like it would be much better.:)When you say,” happy to be
alive”
is it really that bad of an experience?When the term ,”a lot of pain and
suffering”is used
is this physical or emotional pain.?
All these questions,..I know.I am just trying to understand.
I thank you for your time and thank God for the guidance.(I believe in
God,not religion)
Jasen (Aus)

It is the pain of letting go of emotinal pain,
when you love your parents so much and you see them getting old and needy,
you can feel the process of letting go,also when relations between people
isn’t working but still there is love which makes it harder to let go of
people , the understanding during the trip, makes it very emotional but
after it everything fall into a place when the trip is over.
so, it is just a spiritual experience.
those plants are not killers plants, if you get too much you vomit.
they “kill”only things we should let go.
they also show us how much love we have within to the people around us.

God is a mystery of mastery.

kiss a koala of me,they look so funny.

sara

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:45:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m still pondering ibogaine up the nose…I’m sure somebody somewhere tried it.  I had friends who would snort just about anything if you handed it to them.  We all know about ibogaine up the ass, but up the nose..very interesting.

PLEASE BE ADVISED: do not try ibo sniffing at home.  It just sounds really wrong somehow.:)
sc

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:41:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the line Howard.

Sean (who is hearing shamanistic ancient healing voices in his head.)

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:34:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/31/04 8:09:17 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

Well, I hear voices anyway.  Some are nice a gentle, healing.  Then there
are
the WHEN ARE YOU GONNA SCORE SOME GODDAMN CRACK voices.  I know they are
all
my voices though, so I think I will be OK.

There is ibogaine substitution therapy.  Want crack, snort some ibogaine
instead.  Just a line.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and USA
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:02:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

I think there are enough users/addicts in the NYC area to fill the ranks. When my therapist first encouraged me to get involved with addict unions, he said that while you all (us addicts) may be using (or were using) illegal drugs, we don’t deserve to be treated like shit.  We are human beings who use/used and or abuse/abused illegal, and sometimes legal drugs.

I agreed entirely.  I pointed out that harm reduction is mostly an effort of social workers and concerned friends of addicts, not addicts or users themselves often.
Unions would differ in that they (we) would be advocating for themselves.

BTW: the word addict is a tricky one isn’t it.  Drug user unions might be a better choice of words.  It would let individual users call themselves addicts if they like, and allow for those who feel that whole addict paradigm really doesn’t fir for them.  I wasn’t an addict until I went to NA.  Before that I was just a basehead.:)

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and USA
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:32:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean wrote >More reasons for addict unions in the US.<

Just spoke to a couple of friends about this very idea today- I wonder if
you’ve been speaking to the same people I have Sean? LOL.
Seriously, I think this is a much needed and brilliant idea- one that
really needs more support from we users/addicts. Because I think the users
who aren’t addicts should be included/involved in this as well.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and
USA

Hi Callie,

More reasons for addict unions in the US.  The current state of siege we
American addicts live under threatens very existence sometimes. As well as
out freedom to make medical decisions as you point out.  Why would a judge
ever refuse an addict meth as a term of probation.  Because the sinner must
suffer though state imposed abstinence, that’s why.  And if they can’t
handle  that, the sinner can go to church, I mean 12 step meetings.:)

Sean

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and USA
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:13:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

More reasons for addict unions in the US.  The current state of siege we American addicts live under threatens very existence sometimes. As well as out freedom to make medical decisions as you point out.  Why would a judge ever refuse an addict meth as a term of probation.  Because the sinner must suffer though state imposed abstinence, that’s why.  And if they can’t handle  that, the sinner can go to church, I mean 12 step meetings.:)

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:08:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Marc,

Congrats on finding that celebex and knowing that there other ways to relieve pain that a bag a dope, no matter what the voices in our head say.

Well, I hear voices anyway.  Some are nice a gentle, healing.  Then there are the WHEN ARE YOU GONNA SCORE SOME GODDAMN CRACK voices.  I know they are all my voices though, so I think I will be OK.

Crazy in Jersey,
Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:04:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

Hi Jasen,

Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.

***> Dear Sara,I understand.

It isn’t about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it you
are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.

***Fun sounds like it would be much better.:)When you say,” happy to be
alive”
is it really that bad of an experience?When the term ,”a lot of pain and
suffering”is used
is this physical or emotional pain.?
All these questions,..I know.I am just trying to understand.
I thank you for your time and thank God for the guidance.(I believe in
God,not religion)
Jasen (Aus)
Here is something I like to share with you, about the help of plant
medicinal.

Dear Friends,
It is not always easy to work with Ayahuasca. There is for example the
demand to make and test the Ayahuasca that you are going to use on
yourself,
before you give it to anyone else. This process carries certain risks. I
have been looking for all kinds of different Ayahuasca mixes to work with.
I
want one that is visual, but also one that is powerful enough to keep us
in
its grip, and allow for steady visions, as well as the therapeutic
processes, that seem to come only when the visual effects are accompanied
by
a ‘no escape’ sensation.

These therapeutic effects are sometimes so powerful that even a person
with
quite lot of experience must go through a lot of pain and suffering. I
have
had a few death/re-birth experiences during the years that I took
Ayahuasca,
but last nights session was one of the most powerful I ever experienced,
so
I would like to tell you a little bit about it.

The admixture I was using is a mix of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema) and
Banisteriopsis Caapi (Jagube). The latter was supplied by an online
supplier
for testing purposes only, and I was aware that it is an extract,
concentrated 10:1. The question is however what does this really mean? In
the Santo Daime churches there is a scale for expressing the strength of
Daime, ranging from Primeiro Degrau (first degree) then Doubrado (doubled)
and finally there is Mel (honey), the concentration of which is anyone’s
guess. How can such highly concentrated substances be tested, if not
simply
by taking some and praying that the dose is not too powerful?

Since my supplier had received the information that the Banisteriopsis
Caapi
10:1 mixture which came in the form of a dried powder meant that one gram
was a full dose, I began testing it (on my own) at half its strength. I
presumed that I would be able to feel the MAO action, as a shift in my
Serotonin level. Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) can be felt quite powerfully
after ingestion, and I presumed this would be true of the Caapi as well.
Indeed I did feel it some minutes after I ingested it, but I did not take
any DMT containing substance, and the effects went unnoticed after about
two
hours.

I decided to spend the Saturday at Sara’s house, and take a new dose there
with her. This time, I served myself a full dose of 1 gram (dissolved in
water) and drank a full does of Jurema a few minutes later. I gave Sara a
smaller dose, which was unnecessary I found out later, because she has had
much experience with Iboga, and that substance is much more powerful.
After
about half an hour the force of the Ayahuasca gripped me. I threw up, but
that did nothing to lessen the onslaught. It is hard to describe the
gripping force of the substance, but I felt as if my body and mind were
held
in a vice, a vice that was moving and flying through space and time. I was
unable to focus, and hardly able to sit still. I started to have my doubts
about the dosage, and to think that I had maybe made a mistake, perhaps
even
a lethal one. Sara on the other hand seemed fairly relaxed, lying on the
couch with a blanket over herself.

I decided that I would have to go all the way this time, even if it meant
dying, I wanted to lose it: just surrender to whatever it was that was
going
to happen. I started to say goodbye and thank all the people and spirits
that had been guiding me. Naturally there was a lot of sorrow, and I was
very grateful for Sara being there, and allowing me to express my
feelings.
I could not feel the end of the tunnel, but gradually as I resigned
myself,
the feelings of dread started to lift. Perhaps many years ago I would have
been unable to see that I had survived, but things have changed, and I
could
laugh again, still a little shaky but nonetheless a lot wiser.

I am so glad that I had that experience, and I know that such therapeutic
doses are what I wish to work with, but I have never allowed myself the
freedom to administer them myself, for the simple reason that I would
never
give someone something that I had not taken myself. Now I know what a high
dose I can administer, new possibilities open themselves, for those
friends
who wish to experience this for themselves, and have adequate guidance and
friendship and love around them while they are processing whatever comes
up,
such a dose is now available!

This session has allowed me to reconsider a number of things (including a
few personal matters as you may imagine) and one of the things I would
like
to try is to offer such healing works in small groups. There will be a
financial contribution to make, of around 85 -100 euros per session. The
way
I have arrived at this figure is by comparing the type of work going on at
the Santo Daime and other Ayahuasca groups. Therapeutic results reached
during such sessions normally occur only infrequently, the norm seems to
be
that one has to ask for a larger than normal dose, but in such large
groups
it is very hard to willingly take such large doses and allow the spirit of
the Ayahuasca to take over completely. Secondly, the substance itself
costs
quite a lot more to prepare than if it were made in large batches, such as
the Daime. Thirdly, any money left over after the costs of the substance
have been deducted, go towards the house where the session takes place, in
this case Sara’s home, which is a place where healing takes place, and
where
Iboga is used to help drug addicts free themselves. Sara tries to make
this
work affordable, but it is difficult for her to make ends meet, so I would
like to help her this way.

We can be contacted at the following e-mail adresses:

Daniel Nashiv Waterman : waterman.design@wxs.nl
Sara Glatt : sara119@xs4all.nl

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: Methadone and buprenorphine related deaths rare in Paris study.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 8:49:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:15 PM
Subject: Methadone and buprenorphine related deaths rare in Paris study.

A critical review of the causes of death among post-mortem toxicological
investigations: analysis of 34 buprenorphine-associated and 35
methadone-associated deaths. Pirnay S, Borron SW, Giudicelli CP,
Tourneau J, Baud FJ, Ricordel I. Addiction (2004) 99: 978–988

Dear Colleagues,

This adds to the modest amount of published research on the major French
‘experiment’ with buprenorphine, starting in 1996. To add another
variable, two years after the release of unrestricted buprenorphine
prescription, methadone treatment also became available, albeit in a
more structured manner.

This is a detailed report of 60 consecutive overdose deaths in Paris
over a 5 year period from 1997 in which buprenorphine (34), methadone
(35) or both (9) were found in the post-mortem toxicology. An exhaustive
investigation of each case classified the relative contribution (if any)
of the two drugs towards the death. Unfortunately as a retrospective
study, the authors were not able to determine the subjects’ treatment
status.

Despite buprenorphine being prescribed at a rate about 8 times that of
methadone in France, the numbers of deaths most likely attributable to
each drug were about the same (12 versus 14). In these deaths, as in
other reports, an average of about 4 other drugs (excluding nicotine)
was found, and in one case there were 13 additional drugs! Alcohol,
benzodiazepines and other opioids were the most common, sometimes in
very high concentrations. Heroin (morphine) was also found in toxic
levels in 5 buprenorphine cases and 6 methadone subjects. Other cases
either had clear alternative causes of death (eg. homicide, suicide,
burns, carbon monoxide, etc) or else the cause of death could not be
determined (12 cases).

In 1995 there were ~500 opioid overdose deaths in France. This annual
rate had reportedly dropped to 100 by 1999. During this period,
Australian overdose deaths increased relentlessly. Due to its restricted
status, methadone in France is generally reserved for the more difficult
cases. The authors state: “From the beginning, methadone appears to have
had the image in France of ‘a drug of last resort’ for the most
desperate cases”. Hence the higher per-patient death rates are probably
a combination of the drug’s higher toxicity as well as it being used in
higher risk circumstances clinically in France.

When compared, the figure of 60 deaths in a five year period is
reassuringly low. This is in stark contrast to 900 methadone overdose
deaths reported in New York City over a 9 year period (Bryant and
colleagues in last month’s Addiction). The difference is so great that
it would appear France is doing something right while America is doing
something wrong. Treatment access is doubtless a factor, and one can
only speculate about the contribution of so-called US zero tolerance or
‘harm maximization’ policies as being related to the marked differences
in outcomes in what is essentially the same social phenomenon in two
very large, sometimes very tough cities on opposite sides of the
Atlantic. New York’s Rockefeller laws, with long mandatory jail terms
for relatively minor drug offences, seem not to have had the desired
effect, yet it seems they are politically very hard to reverse. It is
good to know that the US has finally introduced buprenorphine treatment
but sad to learn that, like methadone, most of the people who need it
either cannot afford it or it is simply find that it is not available in
their neighbourhood.

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

Pirnay S, Borron SW, Giudicelli CP, Tourneau J, Baud FJ, Ricordel I. A
critical review of the causes of death among post-mortem toxicological
investigations: analysis of 34 buprenorphine-associated and 35
methadone-associated deaths. Addiction (2004) 99: 978–988
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm
For ‘opera reviews’ or ‘dependency briefings’ send email request.
Author of: “Addict in the Family” and
“Methadone in the Treatment of Narcotic Addiction”
http://www.csdp.org/addict/
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/byrne_contents_methadone2.cfm
Photo (ugly):
http://www.opiateaddictionrx.info/aboutus/aboutus06.html#

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] UUSean, belief, …
Date: August 31, 2004 at 8:42:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dark,

Yes, I have said before that I think that belief is key.  If I believe I cannot put down heroin and crack and lead a different life, then I won’t.  I did not believe that I could go to NYC alone without visiting the crack spot. I was right.  Saturday night I was in NY alone, I believed that I could would not look for crack…I did not look for it.

I think that 12 step works that way for those for whom it works.  One believes their higher power will keep them clean, and (S)he does.   Right now I believe that activism and this list will keep me off crack, and it does.

All of this change is post ibo.  I did believe in the ibogaine too.  And the stories of those who had dosed before me.  The treatment links on the ibogaine.mindvox page were very helpful in my understanding of recovery.  Patrick in particular concerning the importance of belief.

And the advise to be more cool.  I liked that a lot too, especially when I feel like being an asshole. Of course sometimes I cannot resist.  What is it the 12 steppers say, “progress not perfection.”  I sure don’t want to get too close to perfect to fast.  I’m having too much fun flawed.:)

UUsean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 7:11:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

fuckin amazin. My back feels totally better. And look at that I didn’t have to shoot dope.
;o) Thanx Callie. I have to agree. its as if I’m thrown a life preserver in some respect everyday.
Having the best time! -M.

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/31/2004 4:31:59 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
craziest thing… I came home after we kicked the cops out of Union Sq. (I’ll explain later) I opened a drawer to get some salt and a full bottle of Celebrex fell out. Its a 02 / 03 exp. but fuck it… better than nothing.

God works in mysterious ways!
I feel sure the Celebrex is fine! (expiration date)
Callie

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 6:47:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/31/2004 4:31:59 PM Central Daylight Time, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:
craziest thing… I came home after we kicked the cops out of Union Sq. (I’ll explain later) I opened a drawer to get some salt and a full bottle of Celebrex fell out. Its a 02 / 03 exp. but fuck it… better than nothing.

God works in mysterious ways!
I feel sure the Celebrex is fine! (expiration date)
Callie

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 5:57:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 11:31 AM, mcorcoran wrote:

Celebrex fell out. Its a 02 / 03 exp. but fuck it… better than nothing. I’ll let you know if it works.

often times expiration dates translate merely to:

The pharmaceutical companies want more of your money.

the meds are most likely still good.

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Celebrexa(sp??)
Date: August 31, 2004 at 5:33:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yea for celebrex!

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/31/2004 11:29:55 AM Central Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
There is a section on ‘Celexa’, and forgive me for my
ignorance, if it isn’t the same as Celebra(sp?)…

Celexa is an anti-depressant and Celebrex is an anti- inflammatory or NSAID (non steroidal anti- inflammatory drug)

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 5:31:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

craziest thing… I came home after we kicked the cops out of Union Sq. (I’ll explain later) I opened a drawer to get some salt and a full bottle of Celebrex fell out. Its a 02 / 03 exp. but fuck it… better than nothing. I’ll let you know if it works. And I’ll call you later and tell you about union sq.
Howard, Glad you got that phone call, and I didn’t suggest it. But I’m glad you guys will talk.
Randy, please let me know what happened with your search yesterday.
Everyone else – hope all is well. -m.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I’m so sorry Mark,
I have looked and looked, and do not remember what I did with it. Again,
if I do come across it I will give you every one of them, but for now, I do
not remember where they are. Tis a shame too, as I had boxes handed me the
first visit at my pain doc’s, you know, all the samples he’d been given by
the company. I mighta thrown them out as they did nothing at all for my
pain.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

This is the last time I’ll bother you but any luck finding the Celabrex ?

Preston Peet wrote:
>the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]

Dear Jasen,

I’m very near the U.K if you think AUSTRALIAN , 20 minutes from Amsterdam
airport, in the countryside’
It is hard to give a straight answer. Only one person asked his methadone
back because he was too afraid to quit.
The rest left the house clean. A treatment from a 100+ mg of methado! ne is
two weeks.
in those two weeks a person gets as many booster doses, ( dose a Iboga
will give a person energy and take the pain away)
As needed, also magic mushroom which relaxed the muscles and help to restore
sleep for some it gives new insight about their Iboga treatment, and
Cannabis which is one of my sacrament and proven
To be of a great benefit to many people during their two weeks stay.
Santa-Maria will potentate the Iboga which means that you don’t need to take
high doses of Iboga.
I have done about 150 treatments, some repeated treatments of people who
need more then one treatment.
The success of the treatment is a combination of things, What DH has
suggested , a support system post -Ibo is one of them, or
If a person has a job, school, relationship or simply just new passion for
life.

All the best,

Sara

Dear Sara,
Thankyou for the detailed answer,your treatment sounds wonderful.
I am a bit c! urious about the mushrooms with the Iboga,the idea of tripping
whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.

Have you found that after 2 weeks all withdrawal is gone with meth patients?

Smiles
Jasen (Aus)

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] OpiateAddictionRxENews; China, Scotland, Germany and USA
Date: August 31, 2004 at 4:40:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: mollifour@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

O P I A T E A D D I C T I O N R X,
August 2004 Ref:126

————————————————————————————–
Worldwide Highlights:
————————————————————————————–

USA: VA: WOMAN JAILED FOR LISTENING TO DOCTOR

Kimberly Bucklin sits in the Tazewell County jail, unfortunately
caught in the middle between a doctor who prescribed
methadone to help her break an OxyContin addiction, and a
judge who prohibited her from taking methadone when he
put her on probation.

The case presents a conflict between law enforcement and
the medical needs of recovering addicts. At a heariAugust
August 20 Judge Henry Vanover was asked to reconsider
his three-year prison sentence for Bucklin’s probation violation.
Dr. Robert G. Newman, testifying as an expert witness,
stated that methadone was an effective treatment that
when administered properly reduces criminality and allows
addicts to live normal lives. The case, was reopened at
the request of the American Civil Liberties Union and
drug treatment advocates. (Source: The Roanoke Times,
Laurence Hammack) For more information on this story:
http://www.opiateaddictionrx.info/whatsnew.asp?id=634

GERMANY: “COLLABORATION BETWEEN PHYSICIAN
AND PHARMACIST IN ‘SUBSTITUTION TREATMENT’

Since the early 90s Germany has been in the forefront of
treatment by generalist physicians of opiate addiction with
methadone and other agonist medications. There has also
been major reliance on community-based pharmacies.
The experience has been excellent, as reported in a 2002
paper (in German) which concluded: “*collaboration
between physicians, pharmacists and patients contributed
greatly to minimizing the risks associated with this form
of treatment and is fundamental to the achievement of
optimal results.” It goes on to state that “every modern
pharmacy should participate [in this treatment].” Source:
Pallenbach. Pharmazie in unsere Zeit. 31(1):90-95, 2002

SCOTLAND: COMMUNITY PHARMACIES AS PARTNER
IN PROVIDING OPIATE ADDICTION SERVICES

“…the bulk of substitute prescribing takes place in a primary
care setting with community pharmacies dispensing . . . ”
Over 8,800 patients receive methadone in that setting, 65%
ingesting it under direct supervision. Excerpts from the conclusions:
majority of (non-addiction treatment) customers were supportive
of community pharmacies offering methadone and/or needle
exchange services; many had “limited understanding of the
rationale for methadone.” The final observation by the authors:
“This research should encourage more pharmacies to offer
drug misuse services . . . ”  (Lawrie et al. Drug and Alc RJune
June 2004; vol. 23:195-202)

“METHADONE RELATED DEATHS”

Methadone deaths continue to make the news in the US
and elsewhere. Accordingly, reliable data to cast light on
what is actually transpiring are essential. One important
study published last year reports on “methadone in
drug-related deaths in the west of Scotland.” The conclusion:
“after 1996 deaths involving methadone have decreased
despite both an increasing number of people being
prescribed methadone and an overall increase in drug-related
deaths. . . . The argument that methadone is an unsafe
alternativetherapy for opiate addiction is not supported by the
results of this study.” Note that in this part of Scotlamnd the
overwhelming majority of patients receive methadone prescribed
by office-based generalist physicians, and administered
(commonly under direct supervision) by community pharmacies.
Ref.: Seymour et al. Addiction. 98:995-1002, 2003

CHINA:  GOVERNMENT SLOWLY INTRODUCES
METHADONE TREATMENT FOR OPIATE ADDICTION

With half of the estimated 1 million HIV infections in China
attributed to spread by intravenous drug use, and with
projections of HIV/AIDS reaching upwards of 10 million
people by 2010, the government has begun to change
its policies and practices.

After decades of ignoring addiction except through
attempts to crack down on supply, and by incarceration of
users in “camps,” Beijing officials are now urging local
governments to provide methadone treatment and
“harm reduction” methods such as needle exchange.
Eight methadone pilot programs have been launched
just this year in southern China, the center of the AIDS
problem. The programs are still small with each treating a
few hundred patients, but further expansion is anticipated.
Meanwhile, Hong Kong’s methadone program continues
to be considered a major success after almost 30 years of
continuous operation.

For the complete article by Shashank Bengali which
appeared in the Knight Ridders NewspapAugust
August 10, 2004, click below:
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9365186.htm

USA: ENDORSEMENT OF METHADONE
TREATMENT IN PRISON

Criminal Justice System agencies are generally
hostile towards methadone treatment, in jail or
anywhere else. Accordingly, it was gratifying to see a
ringing endorsement of methadone treatment in the prison
setting appear in a publication called Correction Professional
(vol 9, number 21, 16 Aug 04). The article quotes The
National Drug Court Institute: “80% of those who stick
with the [methadone] program reduce or eliminate
their criminal activity.”

USA – CONTINUING “METHADONE WOES” NOT
ATTRIBUTED TO ADDICTION TREATMENT PROGRAMS

Those battling local opposition to expansion of methadone
treatment services might consider an article of Dec. 29, 2003,
regarding Tazewell County in Western Virginia. The region
saw methadone-related deaths climb from 12 in 1999 to 62 in
2002, and roughly 70 in 2003. But the State’s medical examiner
for the district said “the circumstances . . . do not point toward
methadone clinics.” The chief of drug diversion for the State Police
agreed: “…methadone treatment clinics have played a minimal
role in methadone abuse in the region.” As for clinics becoming
magnets for drug crimes, Tazewell’s Deputy Police Chief “. . .
said his department has had a methadone clinic in its jurisdiction for
almost two years with little or no impact of drug abuse or
dealing.” Police in a neighboring city said that since its establishment
in 1997 they were called only once, “when a building security
alarm accidentally sounded.”.

———————————————–
LETTER TO THE EDITOR:
———————————————–
Al-Qaeda’s Poppy Profits
R.G.Newman, MD; Time Magazine,
Aug 30, 2004 Edition
http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101040830-686046,00.html

———————————————–
UPCOMING CONFERENCES:
———————————————–
Ethnicity & Addiction
16th International Congress on Addiction
September 8 – 10
Vienna, Austria
http://www.ethnicity-addiction.com

The Third International Conference on
Substitution Treatment and Rehabilitation
of Drug Addiction
September 28-30, 2004
Katowice, Poland
http://www.aids.gov.pl/arch_en/4415

American Association of Treatment of
Opioid Dependence
October 16-20, 2004
Orlando, Florida, USA

AATOD Homepage

VI European Conference
European Opiate Addiction Treatment Association
November 1-3, 2004
Paris, France
http://www.europad.org

Fifth National Harm Reduction Conference
November 11-14, 2004
New Orleans, Louisiana, USA
http://www.harmreduction.org/conf2004

———————————————–
Maureen O’Connor
Project Director, Web Site
International Center for the
Advancement of Addiction Treatment
http://www.OpiateAddictionRx.info
212-523-8398

———————————————–
Maureen O’Connor
Project Director, Web Site
International Center for the
Advancement of Addiction Treatment
http://www.OpiateAddictionRx.info
212-523-8398

———————————————–
Maureen O’Connor
Project Director, Web Site
International Center for the
Advancement of Addiction Treatment
http://www.OpiateAddictionRx.info
212-523-8398

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Celebrexa(sp??)
Date: August 31, 2004 at 4:37:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/31/2004 11:29:55 AM Central Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
There is a section on ‘Celexa’, and forgive me for my
ignorance, if it isn’t the same as Celebra(sp?)…

Celexa is an anti-depressant and Celebrex is an anti- inflammatory or NSAID (non steroidal anti- inflammatory drug)

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Celebrexa(sp??)
Date: August 31, 2004 at 2:16:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tuesday, August 31, 2004, at 08:06 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/31/04 11:30:04 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I found a website that might be of interest to you:

http://crazymeds.org/

There is a section on ‘Celexa’, and forgive me for my
ignorance, if it isn’t the same as Celebra(sp?)…

Julie

celebrex is an anti arthritis medication (you know, happy colorful images of older people celebrating with celebrex while jogging, swimming, golfing)

celexa is an anti-depressant in the SSRI class

_.dh

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Celebrexa(sp??)
Date: August 31, 2004 at 2:06:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/31/04 11:30:04 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I found a website that might be of interest to you:

http://crazymeds.org/

There is a section on ‘Celexa’, and forgive me for my
ignorance, if it isn’t the same as Celebra(sp?)…

Julie

Julie and all,

I have to get out of here but, just wanted to suggest any of your having to
check meds go to http://www.rxlist.com as they will give you technical
information on most rx drugs.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Celebrexa(sp??)
Date: August 31, 2004 at 12:25:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found a website that might be of interest to you:

http://crazymeds.org/

There is a section on ‘Celexa’, and forgive me for my
ignorance, if it isn’t the same as Celebra(sp?)…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] UUSean, belief, …
Date: August 31, 2004 at 12:03:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sean, yea we do have some things in common. In another post you mention your self as a sceptical mystic (or similar). I refer to myself as a athiest mystic. hmmm.

An interesting parallel between Ibogaine and 12 step (though a weak parallel) is that when Bill W. had his mystical experience where he saw the “light” in the hospital it was after doing a hallucingen in the hospital. In my harm reduction program it is emphasized that many of us don’t try to get clean because we don’t beleive we can. I think there is an element of truth in it.

I did LifeRing for several years. I got alot out of it which is one of the reasons this round of meth addiction is not a heavy as it got before. I feel a paradigm shift coming (and needed), one that I hope is facilitated by Ibo.

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 19:11:37 EDT

Hi Dark Matters,

Sounds like we have much in common.  My crack/heroin use broke up my seven
year “marriage” with my lover.  I too went the secular AA route (and
SMART,RR)etc, always ending up back with a crack stem in my mouth and a straw up my nose,
and alter needle in the arm.

Most programs require a belief that they can work.  You know, the “work if
you work em” kinda thing.  After ibogaine, I believe in myself.  I could not
make that statement my whole 20 years in NA.
Pax,
Sean

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx

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From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:25:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

my background:
I went to the jungle Amazonas to meet the Ayahuasca in 1994.
Later in 1996 i met S. Daime´s group.
I guess Daniel is a “fardado” or at least he´s close to Santo Daime´s group.
(Santo Daime means literally “Saint Give Me” :-))
www.santodaime.org
Don´t you have Chacruna, Rainha, Psycotria Viridis, available there?
There´s a reason to call it Rainha (Queen), and the fields where it grows
are called Reinados (kingdoms or should I say: queendoms).
Jurema, does not participate in Santo Daime´s brew. But you can make another
brew.
They (SD) use just Jagube (ayahuasca) and Rainha, to make all the Degraus,
Dobraus and Mel (mmmh!). Changing just, proportions and concentrations.
I understand that in Netherlands there are official Church Chapters of Santo
Daime.
The amount of Daime you take in a “trabajo”, depends of what kind of trabajo
is, and who is on command. You could be given even more that you can easily
“handle”, in a “trabalho de estrela” (star work) you´ll be given one (or
more) big copo (glass), of the brew, (i mean a BIG). But it is not (IT IS
NOT) a shamanic type of thing, it is a “trabajo de corriente”, closer than a
Kardecist kind of thing, so you don´t “react alone”, the brew will open
energetically you and your fellows and “something” like a circuit, an
egregor, is created, they´ll keep on singing/dancing (in an extremely neat &
ordered way).
So there´s no place to the “shamanic individual trip” (for the moment).
You ought to keep the “form” but if you deserve it, you´ll be grasp by “the
Force” and you´ll do your trip (your shamanic individual trip), and then
it´s OK, they enjoy and support you.
If your subttles body are mature you´ll go without faint, you´ll keep on
dancing and/or singing while you´re tripping, if not enough practised you´ll
just faint or fall to the floor, and you´ll do it from there.
You could make the brew a lot more visual or psychedellic adding Toé
(brugmansia or datura), but you´ll have something of your own creation, with
a different “toxycology” than Daime. You have to know in the community some
pregnant women may drink Daime (before, during and after
pregnancy/chilbirth), so close attention to toxicity.
Harmala may give a more “earthbound” sensation, but again you MUST diet a
few days, before and after, your body chemistry would be VERY altered
The firsts contacts with this force is difficult, hard to understand, you
have to overcome a lot of personal resistance. We are born in the
Instant-Quick society, and this is a process
¿why this people tell me what to do, and what not to do? In some moments, is
not the people is GAIA.
When you are “pegado” (= glued?), (being under the effects) you start to
“aparelhar” (i wont translate that), something like you “start to develope”
another “organs”, contact other dimensions, or something that is needed for
spiritual life, 6º sense, or… well, misteries of the Mestre (master).
Like in a physical trainning, you improve day after day, thru your
practise.<

I just want to point that a recreational trip, even with a IMAO mix,
is different than tripping with Daime, (not better not worse, just
different)

if you trip with Daime is not only because the”right dose”, is a sum of
things, and the result is always: if you tripped, you are “merecedor”. (you
are worth it) It´s Grace, a Blessing.
SD make the brew in an old fashion way, no machines involved, with constant
singing, males working with jagube, and women with rainha, they mix in the
end.
So when you drink it, you are drinking a sacrament wich has been made as a
sacrament, and I dare to guess that it would be brought by some fardado, “in
Hand” till the church.
I hope you don´t mind the mix between spanish & portugues.

Out of topic but interesting.
I love this list

germándc

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 8:25 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

Hi Jasen,

Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.

It isn’t about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it you
are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.

Here is something I like to share with you, about the help of plant
medicinal.

Dear Friends,
It is not always easy to work with Ayahuasca. There is for example the
demand to make and test the Ayahuasca that you are going to use on
yourself,
before you give it to anyone else. This process carries certain risks. I
have been looking for all kinds of different Ayahuasca mixes to work with.
I
want one that is visual, but also one that is powerful enough to keep us
in
its grip, and allow for steady visions, as well as the therapeutic
processes, that seem to come only when the visual effects are accompanied
by
a ‘no escape’ sensation.

These therapeutic effects are sometimes so powerful that even a person
with
quite lot of experience must go through a lot of pain and suffering. I
have
had a few death/re-birth experiences during the years that I took
Ayahuasca,
but last nights session was one of the most powerful I ever experienced,
so
I would like to tell you a little bit about it.

The admixture I was using is a mix of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema) and
Banisteriopsis Caapi (Jagube). The latter was supplied by an online
supplier
for testing purposes only, and I was aware that it is an extract,
concentrated 10:1. The question is however what does this really mean? In
the Santo Daime churches there is a scale for expressing the strength of
Daime, ranging from Primeiro Degrau (first degree) then Doubrado (doubled)
and finally there is Mel (honey), the concentration of which is anyone’s
guess. How can such highly concentrated substances be tested, if not
simply
by taking some and praying that the dose is not too powerful?

Since my supplier had received the information that the Banisteriopsis
Caapi
10:1 mixture which came in the form of a dried powder meant that one gram
was a full dose, I began testing it (on my own) at half its strength. I
presumed that I would be able to feel the MAO action, as a shift in my
Serotonin level. Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) can be felt quite powerfully
after ingestion, and I presumed this would be true of the Caapi as well.
Indeed I did feel it some minutes after I ingested it, but I did not take
any DMT containing substance, and the effects went unnoticed after about
two
hours.

I decided to spend the Saturday at Sara’s house, and take a new dose there
with her. This time, I served myself a full dose of 1 gram (dissolved in
water) and drank a full does of Jurema a few minutes later. I gave Sara a
smaller dose, which was unnecessary I found out later, because she has had
much experience with Iboga, and that substance is much more powerful.
After
about half an hour the force of the Ayahuasca gripped me. I threw up, but
that did nothing to lessen the onslaught. It is hard to describe the
gripping force of the substance, but I felt as if my body and mind were
held
in a vice, a vice that was moving and flying through space and time. I was
unable to focus, and hardly able to sit still. I started to have my doubts
about the dosage, and to think that I had maybe made a mistake, perhaps
even
a lethal one. Sara on the other hand seemed fairly relaxed, lying on the
couch with a blanket over herself.

I decided that I would have to go all the way this time, even if it meant
dying, I wanted to lose it: just surrender to whatever it was that was
going
to happen. I started to say goodbye and thank all the people and spirits
that had been guiding me. Naturally there was a lot of sorrow, and I was
very grateful for Sara being there, and allowing me to express my
feelings.
I could not feel the end of the tunnel, but gradually as I resigned
myself,
the feelings of dread started to lift. Perhaps many years ago I would have
been unable to see that I had survived, but things have changed, and I
could
laugh again, still a little shaky but nonetheless a lot wiser.

I am so glad that I had that experience, and I know that such therapeutic
doses are what I wish to work with, but I have never allowed myself the
freedom to administer them myself, for the simple reason that I would
never
give someone something that I had not taken myself. Now I know what a high
dose I can administer, new possibilities open themselves, for those
friends
who wish to experience this for themselves, and have adequate guidance and
friendship and love around them while they are processing whatever comes
up,
such a dose is now available!

This session has allowed me to reconsider a number of things (including a
few personal matters as you may imagine) and one of the things I would
like
to try is to offer such healing works in small groups. There will be a
financial contribution to make, of around 85 -100 euros per session. The
way
I have arrived at this figure is by comparing the type of work going on at
the Santo Daime and other Ayahuasca groups. Therapeutic results reached
during such sessions normally occur only infrequently, the norm seems to
be
that one has to ask for a larger than normal dose, but in such large
groups
it is very hard to willingly take such large doses and allow the spirit of
the Ayahuasca to take over completely. Secondly, the substance itself
costs
quite a lot more to prepare than if it were made in large batches, such as
the Daime. Thirdly, any money left over after the costs of the substance
have been deducted, go towards the house where the session takes place, in
this case Sara’s home, which is a place where healing takes place, and
where
Iboga is used to help drug addicts free themselves. Sara tries to make
this
work affordable, but it is difficult for her to make ends meet, so I would
like to help her this way.

We can be contacted at the following e-mail adresses:

Daniel Nashiv Waterman : waterman.design@wxs.nl
Sara Glatt : sara119@xs4all.nl

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 31 augustus 2004 8:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]

the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:21:32 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m so sorry Mark,
I have looked and looked, and do not remember what I did with it. Again,
if I do come across it I will give you every one of them, but for now, I do
not remember where they are. Tis a shame too, as I had boxes handed me the
first visit at my pain doc’s, you know, all the samples he’d been given by
the company. I mighta thrown them out as they did nothing at all for my
pain.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

This is the last time I’ll bother you but any luck finding the Celabrex ?

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]

Dear Jasen,

I’m very near the U.K if you think AUSTRALIAN , 20 minutes from Amsterdam
airport, in the countryside’
It is hard to give a straight answer. Only one person asked his methadone
back because he was too afraid to quit.
The rest left the house clean. A treatment from a 100+ mg of methado! ne is
two weeks.
in those two weeks a person gets as many booster doses, ( dose a Iboga
will give a person energy and take the pain away)
As needed, also magic mushroom which relaxed the muscles and help to restore
sleep for some it gives new insight about their Iboga treatment, and
Cannabis which is one of my sacrament and proven
To be of a great benefit to many people during their two weeks stay.
Santa-Maria will potentate the Iboga which means that you don’t need to take
high doses of Iboga.
I have done about 150 treatments, some repeated treatments of people who
need more then one treatment.
The success of the treatment is a combination of things, What DH has
suggested , a support system post -Ibo is one of them, or
If a person has a job, school, relationship or simply just new passion for
life.

All the best,

Sara

Dear Sara,
Thankyou for the detailed answer,your treatment sounds wonderful.
I am a bit c! urious about the mushrooms with the Iboga,the idea of tripping
whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.

Have you found that after 2 weeks all withdrawal is gone with meth patients?

Smiles
Jasen (Aus)

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Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:15:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Sara,
I know I’ve said this before, but a trip to your house seems like
something I’m really gonna have tp make someday or other. I gotta go get a
new passport first though, and oh, you know, scrape together some money and
the like, and living in Manhattan doesn’t exactly help me with that.
Peace and love and thanks kindly for posting this.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:25 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.

Hi Jasen,

Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.

It isn’t about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it you
are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.

Here is something I like to share with you, about the help of plant
medicinal.

Dear Friends,
It is not always easy to work with Ayahuasca. There is for example the
demand to make and test the Ayahuasca that you are going to use on
yourself,
before you give it to anyone else. This process carries certain risks. I
have been looking for all kinds of different Ayahuasca mixes to work with.
I
want one that is visual, but also one that is powerful enough to keep us
in
its grip, and allow for steady visions, as well as the therapeutic
processes, that seem to come only when the visual effects are accompanied
by
a ‘no escape’ sensation.

These therapeutic effects are sometimes so powerful that even a person
with
quite lot of experience must go through a lot of pain and suffering. I
have
had a few death/re-birth experiences during the years that I took
Ayahuasca,
but last nights session was one of the most powerful I ever experienced,
so
I would like to tell you a little bit about it.

The admixture I was using is a mix of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema) and
Banisteriopsis Caapi (Jagube). The latter was supplied by an online
supplier
for testing purposes only, and I was aware that it is an extract,
concentrated 10:1. The question is however what does this really mean? In
the Santo Daime churches there is a scale for expressing the strength of
Daime, ranging from Primeiro Degrau (first degree) then Doubrado (doubled)
and finally there is Mel (honey), the concentration of which is anyone’s
guess. How can such highly concentrated substances be tested, if not
simply
by taking some and praying that the dose is not too powerful?

Since my supplier had received the information that the Banisteriopsis
Caapi
10:1 mixture which came in the form of a dried powder meant that one gram
was a full dose, I began testing it (on my own) at half its strength. I
presumed that I would be able to feel the MAO action, as a shift in my
Serotonin level. Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) can be felt quite powerfully
after ingestion, and I presumed this would be true of the Caapi as well.
Indeed I did feel it some minutes after I ingested it, but I did not take
any DMT containing substance, and the effects went unnoticed after about
two
hours.

I decided to spend the Saturday at Sara’s house, and take a new dose there
with her. This time, I served myself a full dose of 1 gram (dissolved in
water) and drank a full does of Jurema a few minutes later. I gave Sara a
smaller dose, which was unnecessary I found out later, because she has had
much experience with Iboga, and that substance is much more powerful.
After
about half an hour the force of the Ayahuasca gripped me. I threw up, but
that did nothing to lessen the onslaught. It is hard to describe the
gripping force of the substance, but I felt as if my body and mind were
held
in a vice, a vice that was moving and flying through space and time. I was
unable to focus, and hardly able to sit still. I started to have my doubts
about the dosage, and to think that I had maybe made a mistake, perhaps
even
a lethal one. Sara on the other hand seemed fairly relaxed, lying on the
couch with a blanket over herself.

I decided that I would have to go all the way this time, even if it meant
dying, I wanted to lose it: just surrender to whatever it was that was
going
to happen. I started to say goodbye and thank all the people and spirits
that had been guiding me. Naturally there was a lot of sorrow, and I was
very grateful for Sara being there, and allowing me to express my
feelings.
I could not feel the end of the tunnel, but gradually as I resigned
myself,
the feelings of dread started to lift. Perhaps many years ago I would have
been unable to see that I had survived, but things have changed, and I
could
laugh again, still a little shaky but nonetheless a lot wiser.

I am so glad that I had that experience, and I know that such therapeutic
doses are what I wish to work with, but I have never allowed myself the
freedom to administer them myself, for the simple reason that I would
never
give someone something that I had not taken myself. Now I know what a high
dose I can administer, new possibilities open themselves, for those
friends
who wish to experience this for themselves, and have adequate guidance and
friendship and love around them while they are processing whatever comes
up,
such a dose is now available!

This session has allowed me to reconsider a number of things (including a
few personal matters as you may imagine) and one of the things I would
like
to try is to offer such healing works in small groups. There will be a
financial contribution to make, of around 85 -100 euros per session. The
way
I have arrived at this figure is by comparing the type of work going on at
the Santo Daime and other Ayahuasca groups. Therapeutic results reached
during such sessions normally occur only infrequently, the norm seems to
be
that one has to ask for a larger than normal dose, but in such large
groups
it is very hard to willingly take such large doses and allow the spirit of
the Ayahuasca to take over completely. Secondly, the substance itself
costs
quite a lot more to prepare than if it were made in large batches, such as
the Daime. Thirdly, any money left over after the costs of the substance
have been deducted, go towards the house where the session takes place, in
this case Sara’s home, which is a place where healing takes place, and
where
Iboga is used to help drug addicts free themselves. Sara tries to make
this
work affordable, but it is difficult for her to make ends meet, so I would
like to help her this way.

We can be contacted at the following e-mail adresses:

Daniel Nashiv Waterman : waterman.design@wxs.nl
Sara Glatt : sara119@xs4all.nl

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 31 augustus 2004 8:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]

the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:18:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are totally right-I hear SO much stuff about Meth or Subutex or whatever on the street and most of its bullshit!  Why is it addicts are so sure they know best?  I’ve just had a ‘discussion’ with someone about Subutex who just wouldn’t listen to anything I had to say.  I worry that I sound patronising or summat but he just would not listenm!  In the end I offered to SHOW him results/research/1st hand accounts on the Net but ofcourse he wasn’t interested. (It was over Subutex being addictive) I don’t think it would have mattered whatever I said-he had his opinion and was sticking to it!

And I agree-my drug problem was CAUSED by my problems with LIFE!  Getting rid of my H didn’t make my life better.  For a month or so I felt good cause I was clean but then you realise how nothing has changed!  Now I’m trying to find out what makes me happy and where I want MY life to go!

Lol Hannah 🙂
—– Original Message —–
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

You are correct Hannah. This is and has been one of the more popular ‘Urban’ and ‘Suburban’ myths. Though baby boomers will be the only true test subjects of long term use, as far as chemicals go, methadone (unfortunately or fortunately) is a relatively safe drug. I know people don’t want to hear this and certainly don’t wish to believe it, but based on the research (not opinions) almost all of the shit you hear about meth comes from addicts and most addicts are just not informed.

Also I wanted to tell Shelly something, you did not fuck up at all. There are a couple of thoughts about this: the one most cliche but very true is plain and simple, life often is 2 steps forward-one step back. You are still ahead of the game. But I don’t think you even went back. This is the reason I do not think one’s specific goal should be “getting off drugs”. It is a great notion, but you need to understand and learn what about you and your life allows you to perpetuate an attitude and behavior that is negative for you or just something you no longer wish to do. Doing drugs is rarely the only problem or situation in your life that needs work. Correct?

What happens often in therapy is the drug abuse is the goal, and they are able to arrest that behavior but most of the time other patterns will develop e.g. overeating, isolation, total inactivity (depression that manifests as not working, lying in bed all day etc.) and a million others! This is because both therapist and patient believe the symptom is the problem. There is no doubt that in a culture such as ours, abuse and addiction to drugs is a problem and causes problems. BUT!!! People who have no issues to deal with that are self destructive try grugs, even do them for a while but are always able to control it. Those of us with ‘issues’ or ‘problems’ allow ourselves to commit to self destruction, a hurtful existence and in general negative patterns and that is what we should be seeking as a goal in any treatment. Shelly, we set ourselves up for disappointment and feelings of ‘failure’ because a symptom manifested in our lives and we have been taught that the symptom is the problem.

Shelly, I hope you believe me because I promise you this is the truth. YOU did not fuck up and of course YOU are not a fuck up. You experienced a symptom of something within you that needs to be dealt with. That is all. Have a really great day!

Sincerely,

Julian

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 10:07:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow I have been wanting to do ayahausca ever since Ive read about it,& heres a cool way with powerful healing intent& the right setting too WOW!

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Jasen,

Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.

It isn’t about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it you
are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.

Here is something I like to share with you, about the help of plant
medicinal.

Dear Friends,
It is not always easy to work with Ayahuasca. There is for example the
demand to make and test the Ayahuasca that you are going to use on yourself,
before you give it to anyone else. This process carries certain risks. I
have been looking for all kinds of different Ayahuasca mixes to work with. I
want one that is visual, but also one that is powerful enough to keep us in
its grip, and allow for steady visions, as well as the therapeutic
processes, that seem to come only when the visual effects are accompanied by
a ‘no escape’ sensation.

These therapeutic effects are sometimes so powerful that even a person with
quite lot of experience must go through a lot of pain and suffering. I have
had a few death/re-birth experiences during the years that I took Ayahuasca,
but last nights session was one of the most powerful I ever experienced, so
I would like to tell you a little bit about it.

The admixture I was using is a mix of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema) and
Banisteriopsis Caapi (Jagube). The latter was supplied by an online supplier
for testing purposes only, and I was aware that it is an extract,
concentrated 10:1. The question is however what does this really mean? In
the Santo Daime churches there is a scale for expressing the strength of
Daime, ranging from Primeiro Degrau (first degree) then Doubrado (doubled)
and finally there is Mel (honey), the concentration of which is anyone’s
guess. How can such highly concentrated substances be tested, if not simply
by taking some and praying that the dose is not too powerful?

Since my supplier had received the information that the Banisteriopsis Caapi
10:1 mixture which came in the form of a dried powder meant that one gram
was a full dose, I began testing it (on my own) at half its strength. I
presumed that I would be able to feel the MAO action, as a shift in my
Serotonin level. Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) can be felt quite powerfully
after ingestion, and I presumed this would be true of the Caapi as well.
Indeed I did feel it some minutes after I ingested it, but I did not take
any DMT containing substance, and the effects went unnoticed after about two
hours.

I decided to spend the Saturday at Sara’s house, and take a new dose there
with her. This time, I served myself a full dose of 1 gram (dissolved in
water) and drank a full does of Jurema a few minutes later. I gave Sara a
smaller dose, which was unnecessary I found out later, because she has had
much experience with Iboga, and that substance is much more powerful. After
about half an hour the force of the Ayahuasca gripped me. I threw up, but
that did nothing to lessen the onslaught. It is hard to describe the
gripping force of the substance, but I felt as if my body and mind were held
in a vice, a vice that was moving and flying through space and time. I was
unable to focus, and hardly able to sit still. I started to have my doubts
about the dosage, and to think that I had maybe made a mistake, perhaps even
a lethal one. Sara on the other hand seemed fairly relaxed, lying on the
couch with a blanket over herself.

I decided that I would have to go all the way this time, even if it meant
dying, I wanted to lose it: just surrender to whatever it was that was going
to happen. I started to say goodbye and thank all the people and spirits
that had been guiding me. Naturally there was a lot of sorrow, and I was
very grateful for Sara being there, and allowing me to express my feelings.
I could not feel the end of the tunnel, but gradually as I resigned myself,
the feelings of dread started to lift. Perhaps many years ago I would have
been unable to see that I had survived, but things have changed, and I could
laugh again, still a little shaky but nonetheless a lot wiser.

I am so glad that I had that experience, and I know that such therapeutic
doses are what I wish to work with, but I have never allowed myself the
freedom to administer them myself, for the simple reason that I would never
give someone something that I had not taken myself. Now I know what a high
dose I can administer, new possibilities open themselves, for those friends
who wish to experience this for themselves, and have adequate guidance and
friendship and love around them while they are processing whatever comes up,
such a dose is now available!

This session has allowed me to reconsider a number of things (including a
few personal matters as you may imagine) and one of the things I would like
to try is to offer such healing works in small groups. There will be a
financial contribution to make, of around 85 -100 euros per session. The way
I have arrived at this figure is by comparing the type of work going on at
the Santo Daime and other Ayahuasca groups. Therapeutic results reached
during such sessions normally occur only infrequently, the norm seems to be
that one has to ask for a larger than normal dose, but in such large groups
it is very hard to willingly take such large doses and allow the spirit of
the Ayahuasca to take over completely. Secondly, the substance itself costs
quite a lot more to prepare than if it were made in large batches, such as
the Daime. Thirdly, any money left over after the costs of the substance
have been deducted, go towards the house where the session takes place, in
this case Sara’s home, which is a place where healing takes place, and where
Iboga is used to help drug addicts free themselves. Sara tries to make this
work affordable, but it is difficult for her to make ends meet, so I would
like to help her this way.

We can be contacted at the following e-mail adresses:

Daniel Nashiv Waterman : waterman.design@wxs.nl
Sara Glatt : sara119@xs4all.nl

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 31 augustus 2004 8:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]

>the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:59:58 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey List ,and thanks julian,I really like what you said,food for thought this am!

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
You are correct Hannah. This is and has been one of the more popular ‘Urban’ and ‘Suburban’ myths. Though baby boomers will be the only true test subjects of long term use, as far as chemicals go, methadone (unfortunately or fortunately) is a relatively safe drug. I know people don’t want to hear this and certainly don’t wish to believe it, but based on the research (not opinions) almost all of the shit you hear about meth comes from addicts and most addicts are just not informed.

Also I wanted to tell Shelly something, you did not fuck up at all. There are a couple of thoughts about this: the one most cliche but very true is plain and simple, life often is 2 steps forward-one step back. You are still ahead of the game. But I don’t think you even went back. This is the reason I do not think one’s specific goal should be “getting off drugs”. It is a great notion, but you need to understand and learn what about you and your life allows you to perpetuate an attitude and behavior that is negative for you or just something you no longer wish to do. Doing drugs is rarely the only problem or situation in your life that needs work. Correct?

What happens often in therapy is the drug abuse is the goal, and they are able to arrest that behavior but most of the time other patterns will develop e.g. overeating, isolation, total inactivity (depression that manifests as not working, lying in bed all day etc.) and a million others! This is because both therapist and patient believe the symptom is the problem. There is no doubt that in a culture such as ours, abuse and addiction to drugs is a problem and causes problems. BUT!!! People who have no issues to deal with that are self destructive try grugs, even do them for a while but are always able to control it. Those of us with ‘issues’ or ‘problems’ allow ourselves to commit to self destruction, a hurtful existence and in general negative patterns and that is what we should be seeking as a goal in any treatment. Shelly, we set ourselves up for disappointment and feelings of ‘failure’ because a symptom manifested in our lives and we have been taught that the symptom is the problem.

Shelly, I hope you believe me because I promise you this is the truth. YOU did not fuck up and of course YOU are not a fuck up. You experienced a symptom of something within you that needs to be dealt with. That is all. Have a really great day!

Sincerely,

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:31:11 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are correct Hannah. This is and has been one of the more popular ‘Urban’ and ‘Suburban’ myths. Though baby boomers will be the only true test subjects of long term use, as far as chemicals go, methadone (unfortunately or fortunately) is a relatively safe drug. I know people don’t want to hear this and certainly don’t wish to believe it, but based on the research (not opinions) almost all of the shit you hear about meth comes from addicts and most addicts are just not informed.

Also I wanted to tell Shelly something, you did not fuck up at all. There are a couple of thoughts about this: the one most cliche but very true is plain and simple, life often is 2 steps forward-one step back. You are still ahead of the game. But I don’t think you even went back. This is the reason I do not think one’s specific goal should be “getting off drugs”. It is a great notion, but you need to understand and learn what about you and your life allows you to perpetuate an attitude and behavior that is negative for you or just something you no longer wish to do. Doing drugs is rarely the only problem or situation in your life that needs work. Correct?

What happens often in therapy is the drug abuse is the goal, and they are able to arrest that behavior but most of the time other patterns will develop e.g. overeating, isolation, total inactivity (depression that manifests as not working, lying in bed all day etc.) and a million others! This is because both therapist and patient believe the symptom is the problem. There is no doubt that in a culture such as ours, abuse and addiction to drugs is a problem and causes problems. BUT!!! People who have no issues to deal with that are self destructive try grugs, even do them for a while but are always able to control it. Those of us with ‘issues’ or ‘problems’ allow ourselves to commit to self destruction, a hurtful existence and in general negative patterns and that is what we should be seeking as a goal in any treatment. Shelly, we set ourselves up for disappointment and feelings of ‘failure’ because a symptom manifested in our lives and we have been taught that the symptom is the problem.

Shelly, I hope you believe me because I promise you this is the truth. YOU did not fuck up and of course YOU are not a fuck up. You experienced a symptom of something within you that needs to be dealt with. That is all. Have a really great day!

Sincerely,

Julian

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 9:26:31 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is the last time I’ll bother you but any luck finding the Celabrex ?

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]

Dear Jasen,

I’m very near the U.K if you think AUSTRALIAN , 20 minutes from Amsterdam
airport, in the countryside’
It is hard to give a straight answer. Only one person asked his methadone
back because he was too afraid to quit.
The rest left the house clean. A treatment from a 100+ mg of methadone is
two weeks.
in those two weeks a person gets as many booster doses, ( dose a Iboga
will give a person energy and take the pain away)
As needed, also magic mushroom which relaxed the muscles and help to restore
sleep for some it gives new insight about their Iboga treatment, and
Cannabis which is one of my sacrament and proven
To be of a great benefit to many people during their two weeks stay.
Santa-Maria will potentate the Iboga which means that you don’t need to take
high doses of Iboga.
I have done about 150 treatments, some repeated treatments of people who
need more then one treatment.
The success of the treatment is a combination of things, What DH has
suggested , a support system post -Ibo is one of them, or
If a person has a job, school, relationship or simply just new passion for
life.

All the best,

Sara

Dear Sara,
Thankyou for the detailed answer,your treatment sounds wonderful.
I am a bit curious about the mushrooms with the Iboga,the idea of tripping
whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.

Have you found that after 2 weeks all withdrawal is gone with meth patients?

Smiles
Jasen (Aus)

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the not so big pill
Date: August 31, 2004 at 8:03:00 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/31/2004 12:13:08 AM Central Daylight Time, jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca writes:
Was it due to my methadone dose being so high that my bio-chem’s still aren’t up to par?
Jasen, Sorry you have a jaw ache. There is nothing anymore painful than a tooth extraction or ache.
I don’t remember the dose of Methadone you are on but as you know over 50mg blocks any ‘high’ or euphoria from opiates. This lasts a while after your last dose. It takes a while for your body to readjust to pre-methadone status.
I always find Ibuprofen or Vixx to help with dental pain. If you are on anticoagulants though you should not take anti inflammatory drugs as they act much like aspirin in thinning blood.
Hope you feel better today.
Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]the idea of tripping.
Date: August 31, 2004 at 7:25:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

Sometimes it is scary to think about tripping, but even without tripping
mushrooms in small amount can help you therapeutically.

It isn’t about fun, but about a rollercoaster, when you come out of it you
are happy to be alive. A short cut to transformation on many levels.

Here is something I like to share with you, about the help of plant
medicinal.

Dear Friends,
It is not always easy to work with Ayahuasca. There is for example the
demand to make and test the Ayahuasca that you are going to use on yourself,
before you give it to anyone else. This process carries certain risks. I
have been looking for all kinds of different Ayahuasca mixes to work with. I
want one that is visual, but also one that is powerful enough to keep us in
its grip, and allow for steady visions, as well as the therapeutic
processes, that seem to come only when the visual effects are accompanied by
a ‘no escape’ sensation.

These therapeutic effects are sometimes so powerful that even a person with
quite lot of experience must go through a lot of pain and suffering. I have
had a few death/re-birth experiences during the years that I took Ayahuasca,
but last nights session was one of the most powerful I ever experienced, so
I would like to tell you a little bit about it.

The admixture I was using is a mix of Mimosa Hostilis (Jurema) and
Banisteriopsis Caapi (Jagube). The latter was supplied by an online supplier
for testing purposes only, and I was aware that it is an extract,
concentrated 10:1. The question is however what does this really mean? In
the Santo Daime churches there is a scale for expressing the strength of
Daime, ranging from Primeiro Degrau (first degree) then Doubrado (doubled)
and finally there is Mel (honey), the concentration of which is anyone’s
guess. How can such highly concentrated substances be tested, if not simply
by taking some and praying that the dose is not too powerful?

Since my supplier had received the information that the Banisteriopsis Caapi
10:1 mixture which came in the form of a dried powder meant that one gram
was a full dose, I began testing it (on my own) at half its strength. I
presumed that I would be able to feel the MAO action, as a shift in my
Serotonin level. Peganum Harmala (Syrian Rue) can be felt quite powerfully
after ingestion, and I presumed this would be true of the Caapi as well.
Indeed I did feel it some minutes after I ingested it, but I did not take
any DMT containing substance, and the effects went unnoticed after about two
hours.

I decided to spend the Saturday at Sara’s house, and take a new dose there
with her. This time, I served myself a full dose of 1 gram (dissolved in
water) and drank a full does of Jurema a few minutes later. I gave Sara a
smaller dose, which was unnecessary I found out later, because she has had
much experience with Iboga, and that substance is much more powerful. After
about half an hour the force of the Ayahuasca gripped me. I threw up, but
that did nothing to lessen the onslaught. It is hard to describe the
gripping force of the substance, but I felt as if my body and mind were held
in a vice, a vice that was moving and flying through space and time. I was
unable to focus, and hardly able to sit still. I started to have my doubts
about the dosage, and to think that I had maybe made a mistake, perhaps even
a lethal one. Sara on the other hand seemed fairly relaxed, lying on the
couch with a blanket over herself.

I decided that I would have to go all the way this time, even if it meant
dying, I wanted to lose it: just surrender to whatever it was that was going
to happen. I started to say goodbye and thank all the people and spirits
that had been guiding me. Naturally there was a lot of sorrow, and I was
very grateful for Sara being there, and allowing me to express my feelings.
I could not feel the end of the tunnel, but gradually as I resigned myself,
the feelings of dread started to lift. Perhaps many years ago I would have
been unable to see that I had survived, but things have changed, and I could
laugh again, still a little shaky but nonetheless a lot wiser.

I am so glad that I had that experience, and I know that such therapeutic
doses are what I wish to work with, but I have never allowed myself the
freedom to administer them myself, for the simple reason that I would never
give someone something that I had not taken myself. Now I know what a high
dose I can administer, new possibilities open themselves, for those friends
who wish to experience this for themselves, and have adequate guidance and
friendship and love around them while they are processing whatever comes up,
such a dose is now available!

This session has allowed me to reconsider a number of things (including a
few personal matters as you may imagine) and one of the things I would like
to try is to offer such healing works in small groups. There will be a
financial contribution to make, of around 85 -100 euros per session. The way
I have arrived at this figure is by comparing the type of work going on at
the Santo Daime and other Ayahuasca groups. Therapeutic results reached
during such sessions normally occur only infrequently, the norm seems to be
that one has to ask for a larger than normal dose, but in such large groups
it is very hard to willingly take such large doses and allow the spirit of
the Ayahuasca to take over completely. Secondly, the substance itself costs
quite a lot more to prepare than if it were made in large batches, such as
the Daime. Thirdly, any money left over after the costs of the substance
have been deducted, go towards the house where the session takes place, in
this case Sara’s home, which is a place where healing takes place, and where
Iboga is used to help drug addicts free themselves. Sara tries to make this
work affordable, but it is difficult for her to make ends meet, so I would
like to help her this way.

We can be contacted at the following e-mail adresses:

Daniel Nashiv Waterman : waterman.design@wxs.nl
Sara Glatt : sara119@xs4all.nl

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 31 augustus 2004 8:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]

the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Re:
Date: August 31, 2004 at 2:50:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The LA CBS affiliate did very good and positive piece on ibo, perhaps mention it.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Re:
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:21:11 -0400

>Preston – I met the bureau cheif for CBS news at the park, if thats his
correct title, but something like that, anyway, I gave him my little Ibo
speech he loved it and wants to meet after the convention. interested?<

I’M DEFINITELY INTERESTED.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Re:

Hey all. So gald I don’t have a phone tonight. Really enjoying the quite.
Had to borrow money from a load shark toady but its all good. He’s a nice
load shark but it was still so weird. But screw it, I like doing whatever I
have to do to keep this amazing summer going..  What a day! I still have yet
to take that other 5 mg/kg . I figure if it aint broke dont fix it.
Preston – I met the bureau cheif for CBS news at the park, if thats his
correct title, but something like that, anyway, I gave him my little Ibo
speech he loved it and wants to meet after the convention. interested?
Thanks again Howard. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a
reasonable alternative. The more you can taper on the Meth, the better (but
you know that already).<

As I tried to say before, V and I are in total agreement with her continuing
to dool my script out to me. That way at those times when I think, “gosh, I
am hurting/pissed off/sad/happy/alive” come over me, I have a little help
with resisting the temptation to simply take extra pills.
I can always ransack the apartment looking for my script, but she’d then
know something was up, I’d have to admit I did it, and well, I don’t wanna.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

PS: Although Subox! one works well for some, there is still a problem with
the half-life, or how long it stays in your system. I only mention this in
case you’re thinking of giving it a try. However, I believe you can take
Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those facts, I
am not a practitioner. I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned
out to you may be a reasonable alternative. The more you can taper on the
Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling ! OK by taking
about 10 Ultram a day. All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad. Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie: I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit. I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok. Although I was mainly on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first
week, or actually from the Meth, I ! can’t be sure, but I suspect both
played
a part. However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition. Guess
what? I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday). I still think it’s a valid idea; just not
one we tend to follow through with. If you could handle some Hydrocodone or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

> Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> without spending a month in bed?<
>
> Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
> stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
> months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my
pain
> whatsoever
> But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
> (though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
> when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
> began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
> say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
> somewhat by substituting weak and p! athetic poppy tea for methadone- then
> anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
> kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
> sucked big time.
> And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really,
not
> just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
> I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
> enough strength to pick it up again.
> Peace and love all,
> Preston
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Ms Iboga”
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
>
>
> > Hi Callie,
> >
> > I’m 26. I have used opiates for about four years, and
> > all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
> > years before that. All I know, is that H was way
> > easier to kick than this sh*t. Sure, it was a bit
> > more painful, but so much shorter!
> >
> > Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> > without spending a month in bed? I don’t crave H
> > anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me. But I’ve
> > heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
> > addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
> > long in your body.
> >
> > I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
> > starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
> > the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
> > do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain ! names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 2:23:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.<

Oh my goodness, I had the exactly opposite reaction to yours when reading
Sara’s letter Jasen.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]

Dear Jasen,

I’m very near the U.K if you think AUSTRALIAN , 20 minutes from Amsterdam
airport, in the countryside’
It is hard to give a straight answer. Only one person asked his methadone
back because he was too afraid to quit.
The rest left the house clean. A treatment from a 100+ mg of methadone is
two weeks.
in those two weeks a person gets as many booster doses,  ( dose a Iboga
will give a person energy and take the pain away)
As needed, also magic mushroom which relaxed the muscles and help to restore
sleep for some it gives new insight about their Iboga treatment, and
Cannabis which is one of my sacrament and proven
To be of a great benefit to many people during their two weeks stay.
Santa-Maria will potentate the Iboga which means that you don’t need to take
high doses of Iboga.
I have done about 150 treatments, some repeated treatments of people who
need more then one treatment.
The success of the treatment is a combination of things, What DH has
suggested , a support system post -Ibo is one of them, or
If a person has a job, school, relationship or simply just new passion for
life.

All the best,

Sara

Dear Sara,
Thankyou for the detailed answer,your treatment sounds wonderful.
I am a bit curious about the mushrooms with the Iboga,the idea of tripping
whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.

Have you found that after 2 weeks all withdrawal is gone with meth patients?

Smiles
Jasen (Aus)

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 31, 2004 at 1:59:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:26 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]

Dear Jasen,

I知 very near the U.K if you think AUSTRALIAN , 20 minutes from Amsterdam airport, in the countryside’
It is hard to give a straight answer. Only one person asked his methadone back because he was too afraid to quit.
The rest left the house clean. A treatment from a 100+ mg of methadone is two weeks.
in those two weeks a person gets as many booster doses,  ( dose a Iboga will give a person energy and take the pain away)
As needed, also magic mushroom which relaxed the muscles and help to restore sleep for some it gives new insight about their Iboga treatment, and Cannabis which is one of my sacrament and proven
To be of a great benefit to many people during their two weeks stay. Santa-Maria will potentate the Iboga which means that you don稚 need to take high doses of Iboga.
I have done about 150 treatments, some repeated treatments of people who need more then one treatment.
The success of the treatment is a combination of things, What DH has suggested , a support system post 蜂bo is one of them, or
If a person has a job, school, relationship or simply just new passion for life.

All the best,

Sara

Dear Sara,
Thankyou for the detailed answer,your treatment sounds wonderful.
I am a bit curious about the mushrooms with the Iboga,the idea of tripping whilst hanging
out is not very appealing,however I am sure you have reason.

Have you found that after 2 weeks all withdrawal is gone with meth patients?

Smiles Jasen (Aus)

 

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] the not so big pill
Date: August 31, 2004 at 1:12:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

UFO dentists from planet anaesthesia came to visit, had to write them a hot check just for them to look at me.  I think they put me under and gang raped my jaw with and without their sadist dentist tools …then they give script of 30 Watson’s for pain, which is a fucking joke.

But these damn Vic’s for pain?, mahn they are a fucking joke.  One a day, who does that dose level work on really, cause it was a sugar pill when I took just one, eventually I took just under the acetaminophen limit and felt the pain dull a very little bit, obviously causing me to run out quickly, so now I take gin and xan, which sucks ass as a pain killer.
So if all my receptors and shit have been ‘re-set’ why is this the case?  Was it due to my methadone dose being so high that my bio-chem’s still aren’t up to par?
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 31, 2004 at 12:08:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi List!Hey even though In a nurse & work for money in the medical profession,Im into alternative medicine & about to graduate from acupuncture school.Ive learned about traditional chinese medicine,and drugs affect your kidneys very intensely in TCM,the kidneys rule the bones,also drugs hurt your kidneys which rule the WILL,interesting ,huh?Perhaps were just using the wrong paradigm to understand stuff?happy trailers-shell

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/30/2004 9:42:59 AM Central Daylight Time, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:
erm…everyone over here always says that Meth gets down into your bone
marrow and stays for ages but I think I read some research somewhere that
said that this is not true….

it isn’t anymore true than any other drug gets in your bones. Medications or any substances for that matter are transported in your blood. traces of meth could probably  be found in bone marrow but only because blood is in bone marrow.
Does that makes sense? It is hard to explain in simplistic terminology!
I know it feels like it gets in your bones! Your bones sure do ache without it! lol!
Callie

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Dana/Ibogaine in NY Times
Date: August 30, 2004 at 11:26:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So he gave me his email address said he could comment until he had more
facts and asked me to send him more info. I’m digging for it now and I’m
having a hard time finidng it but maybe I’ll send him to your site if your
open to it.
I found it very enjoyable. -M.<

LOL.
Hey Mark, this is brilliant. I am more than impressed, even though I don’t
like Alan Keys. This is really great going on your part. Great tactics too.
Peace and love,
Preston
(call me in the morning, it’s late now.)

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Dana/Ibogaine in NY Times

Oh Howard, you’ll find this funny. I’m on my way back from the UN Rally
( Dag Hammerskold Plaza ) and I bump into none other than Mr. Alan Keyes! I
told him I was a “republican for peace” and I have always been a big fan
since his days on Bill Maher (all bullshit of course) anyway then I ask him
if he knows anything about ibogaine. He said it sounded familar but refresh
his memory. Now all his people are listening to this whole thing in front of
the W hotel. I say how I was born in IL. and I know that inner cities in
Chicago are full of drugs and that the black commuinty has been affected
especailly hard and that what if they knew that there potential salvation
was is a natural substance grown only in Africa that is illegal only here
and another handful of counrties thast are full of drug compaines? Then
without him having a chance to respond I worked the republicn agenda a
little talking about tax dollars and all wasted money going to for medicaid
to send people in and out of detoxes at 10K a head and thats when it got
good! . I mean I had him! So he gave me his email address said he could
comment until he had more facts and asked me to send him more info. I’m
digging for it now and I’m having a hard time finidng it but maybe I’ll send
him to your site if your open to it.
I found it very enjoyable. -M.
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

NYTimes.com > New York Region

Anticapitalists, Marijuana Advocates Real Estate Barons?

By COLIN MOYNIHAN

Published: August 30, 2004

ver the decades the Yippies have become infamous as a counterculture group
known for colorful pranks and criticizing capitalism. Recently, though, the
group entered the world of high-stakes Manhattan real estate, buying the
East
Village building that has been its longtime headquarters for $1.2 million.
Advertisement

In 1973, a few members of the group – begun by Abbie Hoffman, known for
scattering dollar bills onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and
others
and officially called the Youth International Party – moved into the
three-story building at 9 Bleecker Street, near the Bowery. Over the years
their! monthly
rent rose to more than $8,000 from $675. In 2000 the building was sold, and
the Yippies faced eviction.
After months of negotiation, however, a deal was reached that will allow the
group, which first entered public consciousness during the Chicago Seven
political conspiracy trial following widespread disturbances during the 1968
Democratic convention, to hold onto its spiritual home.
A partnership formed with Yippie Holdings and an advocacy group called the
National AIDS Brigade paid the former owner, Harlan Berger, $100,000, said a
Yippie leader, Dana Beal, who has lived in the building since 1973. Mr.
Berger
offered a loan in the form of a mortgage, Mr. Beal added, which the Yippies
will
pay off at the rate of about $11,000 per month. The partnership will form a
nonprofit organization, Mr. Beal said, and turn the building into a Yippie
museum and an advocacy center to fight transmission of AIDS.
Mr. Beal said that since! the Yippies co-own the building, he planned to use
the property as equity to quickly get loans to pay off the $1.1 million owed
to
Mr. Berger. He said he also planned to use air rights to build an additional
story on the roof that could be sold or rented.
Mr. Berger did not return calls from this reporter, but a lawyer who
represented him in the transfer, Andrew Albstein, said the deed had been
turned over
to the Yippies.
For the two dozen or so veteran Yippies who are still in New York, as well
as
a handful of others scattered across the country, the building is far more
than a pile of bricks and mortar in a gentrifying district.
“Smoke-ins, rallies, protests,” Mr. Beal said, in a chair on the building’s
cluttered second floor. “This is where it all happened for us.”
Stacks of newspapers and books lined the loft-like room, including “My Life
in Garbology,” in which the Yippie A. J. Weberman described what he found
while
roo! ting through the trash of such diverse figures as Bob Dylan and the
former
F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover. Antiwar posters adorned the walls, and
several cats prowled the premises.
“This place is a temple of insurrection,” said Aron Kay, another longtime
Yippie.
There is plenty of history at No. 9, as the building is affectionately known
to visitors. It was there that newspapers like The Yipster Times, later
called
Overthrow, was published.
Demonstrations during national political conventions were planned there, as
were annual pot parades calling for the legalization of marijuana. A scarred
wooden door in the basement is a reminder of the day in 1981 that someone
set
off a bomb in front of the building.
Mr. Beal said he would also use the building as a base to advocate the
legalization of ibogaine, a derivative of an African shrub that he said has
the
ability to interrupt addiction to dangerous substances, like heroin.
An! d, of course, the Yippies being Yippies, the building has been abuzz
with
preparations for the Republican convention. In the past weeks, people have
gathered on the ground floor, where they painted signs to carry in protests
during
the convention.
“Yippies haven’t missed a convention since 1964,” Mr. Beal said. “And this
one is only a few blocks away.”

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: No link between expansion of methadone treatment and methadone related deaths. Addiction study finds.
Date: August 30, 2004 at 11:22:59 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 7:54 PM
Subject: No link between expansion of methadone treatment and methadone
related deaths. Addiction study finds.

Overdose deaths attributed to methadone and heroin in New York City,
1990-1998. Bryant WK, Galea S, Tracy M, Markham Piper T, Tardiff KJ,
Vlahov D. Addiction (2004) 99: 846-854 (July)

Dear Colleagues,

This comprehensive review of coroner’s records yields important
information on the relative harms of street heroin versus prescribed and
street methadone in a large city during a period of continued increases
in both ‘markets’. This group from the New York Academy of Medicine
quotes the origin of this study as suggestions that methadone was
‘killing more people than heroin’ (in the 1990s in England, where
supervised dosing was exceptional). Some even advised that opioid
maintenance treatment be reviewed or even withdrawn for this reason
(Newcombe, 1996).

From 1990-98 the number of patients in NYC on methadone maintenance
treatment (MMT) increased from 26,000 to 34,000 yet the number of deaths
in which methadone was a contributor varied between 85 and 145 each year
with no trend. Out of a total of 7451 overdose deaths reported during
the 9 year study period, only 121 (1.6%) deaths were due to methadone
alone. Another 900 (12%) were reported as due to methadone, in
combination with cocaine (40%), heroin (30%), alcohol (41%). There was
an overlap of 400 deaths in which both heroin and methadone contributed.

Heroin deaths increased from 300 to almost 700 per year in the first 4
years of the study period after which they levelled off and then dropped
to around 500 annually in the last 3 years. These were more likely to be
‘single drug’ overdoses of which there were around 900, comprising 20%
of all deaths attributed to heroin.

During most years of the study there were 3 to 6 times as many deaths
from heroin as from methadone with an upward trend for heroin and no
trend for methadone (p=0.16) from 1990 to 1998. Males accounted for 80%
of the deaths with an even split of white, black and Hispanic at 33% each.

Considering the 5 boroughs of New York City, (Manhattan, Queens,
Brooklyn, Bronx and Staten Island) this would appear to be up to 100
overdose deaths per million population annually overall. This compares
with Australian figures of between 20 and 40 for the same period, up to
20 in the UK and as low as 2 in some European countries such as Holland
and Switzerland. These figures seem to reflect the degree of ‘zero
tolerance’ policy implementation, with lower mortality rates being seen
with the introduction of harm reduction measures such as buprenorphine,
methadone, injecting rooms, needle services and heroin prescription
trials.

The authors report an ‘intriguing’ and unexplained finding that Staten
Island had a much lower rate of overdose death (2.4% of the total). They
recommend further study of how some areas, despite no shortage of drug
users, report much lower fatality rates. They speculate on the possible
effects of income levels and poverty by region.

The message from this study is that one can expand methadone treatment
in an urban setting AND permit take-away doses (nearly all NYC MMT
patients receive ‘Sunday bottles’) WITHOUT a corresponding increase in
overdose deaths from methadone. Indeed, there is probably a
corresponding reduction in the number of heroin overdoses, although this
is harder to measure with the long time frames involved here.

Bryant WK, Galea S, Tracy M, Markham Piper T, Tardiff KJ, Vlahov D.
Overdose deaths attributed to methadone and heroin in New York City,
1990-1998. Addiction (2004) 99: 846-854

comments by Andrew Byrne ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524 Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My grandfather Harry Gracie’s letters from 1924 trip to Mayo Clinic:
http://bpresent.com/harry/code/mayo.htm
For ‘opera reviews’ or ‘dependency briefings’ send email request.
Author of: “Addict in the Family” and
“Methadone in the Treatment of Narcotic Addiction”
http://www.csdp.org/addict/
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/byrne_contents_methadone2.cfm
Photo (ugly):
http://www.opiateaddictionrx.info/aboutus/aboutus06.html#

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] finished VALIS
Date: August 30, 2004 at 9:40:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list,

After all the talk about Valis on the mindvox. ibo site and the general Dick talk in the ibogaine story at cures not wars, I finally went and read Valis.  Very powerful book.
Funny, it has that just what I have been looking for feeling. As a mystical skeptic myself, I have always felt rather alone in this rare philosophical spot.  The idea of the two legged God is certainly one I can relate too.  All those qualities which are put on the transcendental God are reflected back to their origin.  Love, peace, wisdom, compassion…that’s what we can be..if only we believe.

Pax,
Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Dana/Ibogaine in NY Times
Date: August 30, 2004 at 7:41:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Marc,

You sly dog you! Passing yourself as a peace GOPer.  I guess they do exist, just haven’t met any.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [12-step-free] The Laws of the Pharmaceutical Industry
Date: August 30, 2004 at 7:29:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “cool guy” <cool_guy@sexmagnet.com>
Subject: [12-step-free] The Laws of the Pharmaceutical Industry
Date: August 30, 2004 at 1:32:35 PM EDT
To: “cool guy” <cool_guy@sexmagnet.com>
Reply-To: 12-step-free@yahoogroups.com

THE LAWS OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY




The corporate hierarchy flows like this: Oil, chemicals, 
pharmaceuticals — all three of which poison the human frame and 
pollute the environment. The interests of corporations and the 
interests of governments have merged. Government sets policies and 
passes laws forcing the world to accept the Big Three’s toxic arsenal 
into their bodies, into their air, into their water and into their 
food. Record numbers of people, animals and ecosystems are sickening 
and dying from over exposure to these known toxins, yet government 
refuses to amend its policies where oil, chemicals and 
pharmaceuticals are concerned. Following is a description of the 
principles guiding the Big Three’s murky light into our lives. It is 
paramount that people understand the relationship of poison producers 
and the governments enabling them. 

by Dr. Matthias Rath 

1. The pharmaceutical industry is an investment industry driven by 
the profits of its shareholders. Improving human health is not the 
driving force of this industry. 

2. The pharmaceutical investment industry was artificially created 
and strategically developed over an entire century by the same 
investment groups that control the global petrochemical and chemical 
industries. 

3. The huge profits of the pharmaceutical industry are based on the 
patenting of new drugs. These patents essentially allow drug 
manufacturers to arbitrarily define the profits for their products. 

4. The marketplace for the pharmaceutical industry is the human body -
- but only for as long as the body hosts diseases. Thus, maintaining 
and expanding diseases is a precondition for the growth of the 
pharmaceutical industry. 

5. A key strategy to accomplish this goal is the development of drugs 
that merely mask symptoms while avoiding the curing or elimination of 
diseases. This explains why most prescription drugs marketed today 
have no proven efficacy and merely target symptoms. 

6. To further expand their pharmaceutical market, the drug companies 
are continuously looking for new applications (indications) for the 
use of drugs they already market. For example, Bayer’s pain pill 
Aspirin is now taken by 50 million healthy U.S. citizens under the 
illusion it will prevent heart attacks. 

7. Another key strategy to expand pharmaceutical markets is to cause 
new diseases with drugs. While merely masking symptoms short term, 
most of the prescription drugs taken by millions of patients today 
cause a multitude of new diseases as a result of their known long-
term side effects. For example, all cholesterol-lowering drugs 
currently on the market are known to increase the risk of developing 
cancer — but only after the patient has been taking the drug for 
several years. 

8. The known deadly side effects of prescription drugs are the fourth 
leading cause of death in the industrialized world, surpassed only by 
the number of deaths from heart attacks, cancer and strokes (Journal 
of the American Medical Association, April 15, 1998). This fact is no 
surprise either, because drug patents are primarily issued for new 
synthetic molecules. All synthetic molecules need to be detoxified 
and eliminated from the body, a system that frequently fails and 
results in an epidemic of severe and deadly side effects. 

9. While the promotion and expansion of diseases increase the market 
of the pharmaceutical investment industry – prevention and root cause 
treatment of diseases decrease long-term profitability; therefore, 
they are avoided or even obstructed by this industry. 

10. Worst of all, the eradication of diseases is, by its very nature, 
incompatible with and diametrically opposed to the interests of the 
pharmaceutical investment industry. The eradication of diseases now 
considered as potential drug markets will destroy billions of 
investment dollars and eventually will eliminate this entire 
industry. 

11. Vitamins and other effective natural health therapies that 
optimize cellular metabolism threaten the pharmaceutical “business 
with disease” because they target the cellular cause of today’s most 
common diseases — and these natural substances cannot be patented. 

12. Throughout the more than one hundred year existence of the 
pharmaceutical industry, vitamins and other essential nutrients, with 
defined functions as cofactors in cellular metabolism, have been the 
fiercest competition and the greatest threat to the long-term success 
of the pharmaceutical investment business. 

13. Vitamins and other effective natural health therapies that 
effectively prevent diseases are incompatible with the very nature of 
the pharmaceutical “business with disease.” 

14. To protect the strategic development of its investment business 
against the threat from effective, natural and non-patentable 
therapies, the pharmaceutical industry has — over an entire century -
used the most unscrupulous methods, such as: 

(1) Withholding life-saving health information from millions of 
people. It is simply unacceptable that today so few know that the 
human body cannot produce vitamin C and lysine, two key molecules for 
connective tissue stability and disease prevention. 

(2) Discrediting natural health therapies. The most common way is 
through global PR campaigns organized by the Pharma-Cartel that 
spread lies about the alleged side effects of natural substances — 
molecules that have been used by Nature for millennia. 

(3) Banning by law the dissemination of information about natural 
health therapies. To that end, the pharmaceutical industry has placed 
its lobbyists in key political positions in key markets and leading 
drug export nations. 

15. The pharmaceutical “business with disease” is the largest 
deception and fraud business in human history. The product “health” 
promised by drug companies is not delivered to millions of patients. 
Instead, the “products” most often delivered are the opposite: new 
diseases and frequently, death. 

16. The survival of the pharmaceutical industry is dependent on the 
elimination by any means of effective natural health therapies. These 
natural and non-patentable therapies have become the treatment of 
choice for millions of people despite the combined economic, 
political and media opposition of the world’s largest investment 
industry. 

*** 

Dr. Matthias Rath is one of the world’s most ardent practioners of 
orthomolecular medicine (the use of high-potency supplements and 
nutritional therapy to correct bodily imbalances at the root of ill 
health). He has also been on the front lines of the world-wide effort 
to stop Codex Alimentarius — organized medicines’s attempt to use 
governments to regulate vitamins, herbs, botanicals and supplements 
so that a licensed physician will be required before people may 
obtain them for health purposes.

Peace,

“I can’t think of any greater harm to humanity than the kind that’s done by good people who embrace a bad cause. So perhaps the greatest mistake ever made is to not fully understand what you believe in.” Marilyn vos Savant
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: August 30, 2004 at 7:11:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Dark Matters,

Sounds like we have much in common.  My crack/heroin use broke up my seven year “marriage” with my lover.  I too went the secular AA route (and SMART,RR)etc, always ending up back with a crack stem in my mouth and a straw up my nose, and alter needle in the arm.

Most programs require a belief that they can work.  You know, the “work if you work em” kinda thing.  After ibogaine, I believe in myself.  I could not make that statement my whole 20 years in NA.
Pax,
Sean

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Dana/Ibogaine in NY Times
Date: August 30, 2004 at 6:07:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh Howard, you’ll find this funny. I’m on my way back from the UN Rally
( Dag Hammerskold Plaza ) and I bump into none other than Mr. Alan Keyes! I told him I was a “republican for peace” and I have always been a big fan since his days on Bill Maher (all bullshit of course) anyway then I ask him if he knows anything about ibogaine. He said it sounded familar but refresh his memory. Now all his people are listening to this whole thing in front of the W hotel. I say how I was born in IL. and I know that inner cities in Chicago are full of drugs and that the black commuinty has been affected especailly hard and that what if they knew that there potential salvation was is a natural substance grown only in Africa that is illegal only here and another handful of counrties thast are full of drug compaines? Then without him having a chance to respond I worked the republicn agenda a little talking about tax dollars and all wasted money going to for medicaid to send people in and out of detoxes at 10K a head and thats when it got good. I mean I had him! So he gave me his email address said he could comment until he had more facts and asked me to send him more info. I’m digging for it now and I’m having a hard time finidng it but maybe I’ll send him to your site if your open to it.
I found it very enjoyable. -M.
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

NYTimes.com > New York Region

Anticapitalists, Marijuana Advocates Real Estate Barons?

By COLIN MOYNIHAN

Published: August 30, 2004

ver the decades the Yippies have become infamous as a counterculture group
known for colorful pranks and criticizing capitalism. Recently, though, the
group entered the world of high-stakes Manhattan real estate, buying the East
Village building that has been its longtime headquarters for $1.2 million.
Advertisement

In 1973, a few members of the group – begun by Abbie Hoffman, known for
scattering dollar bills onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and others
and officially called the Youth International Party – moved into the
three-story building at 9 Bleecker Street, near the Bowery. Over the years their monthly
rent rose to more than $8,000 from $675. In 2000 the building was sold, and
the Yippies faced eviction.
After months of negotiation, however, a deal was reached that will allow the
group, which first entered public consciousness during the Chicago Seven
political conspiracy trial following widespread disturbances during the 1968
Democratic convention, to hold onto its spiritual home.
A partnership formed with Yippie Holdings and an advocacy group called the
National AIDS Brigade paid the former owner, Harlan Berger, $100,000, said a
Yippie leader, Dana Beal, who has lived in the building since 1973. Mr. Berger
offered a loan in the form of a mortgage, Mr. Beal added, which the Yippies will
pay off at the rate of about $11,000 per month. The partnership will form a
nonprofit organization, Mr. Beal said, and turn the building into a Yippie
museum and an advocacy center to fight transmission of AIDS.
Mr. Beal said that since the Yippies co-own the building, he planned to use
the property as equity to quickly get loans to pay off the $1.1 million owed to
Mr. Berger. He said he also planned to use air rights to build an additional
story on the roof that could be sold or rented.
Mr. Berger did not return calls from this reporter, but a lawyer who
represented him in the transfer, Andrew Albstein, said the deed had been turned over
to the Yippies.
For the two dozen or so veteran Yippies who are still in New York, as well as
a handful of others scattered across the country, the building is far more
than a pile of bricks and mortar in a gentrifying district.
“Smoke-ins, rallies, protests,” Mr. Beal said, in a chair on the building’s
cluttered second floor. “This is where it all happened for us.”
Stacks of newspapers and books lined the loft-like room, including “My Life
in Garbology,” in which the Yippie A. J. Weberman described what he found while
rooting through the trash of such diverse figures as Bob Dylan and the former
F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover. Antiwar posters adorned the walls, and
several cats prowled the premises.
“This place is a temple of insurrection,” said Aron Kay, another longtime
Yippie.
There is plenty of history at No. 9, as the building is affectionately known
to visitors. It was there that newspapers like The Yipster Times, later called
Overthrow, was published.
Demonstrations during national political conventions were planned there, as
were annual pot parades calling for the legalization of marijuana. A scarred
wooden door in the basement is a reminder of the day in 1981 that someone set
off a bomb in front of the building.
Mr. Beal said he would also use the building as a base to advocate the
legalization of ibogaine, a derivative of an African shrub that he said has the
ability to interrupt addiction to dangerous substances, like heroin.
And, of course, the Yippies being Yippies, the building has been abuzz with
preparations for the Republican convention. In the past weeks, people have
gathered on the ground floor, where they painted signs to carry in protests during
the convention.
“Yippies haven’t missed a convention since 1964,” Mr. Beal said. “And this
one is only a few blocks away.”

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Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Yippies purchase their spiritual home
Date: August 30, 2004 at 6:00:24 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just bought the NYTimes for the first time in years, and lo and behold, I
was there during the NYTimes visit to Dana’s, and I know that to be the case
’cause I’m in the photo (see attachment- I’m second from left, in profile,
if you can even make that out in this scanned newspaper photo) on page B3.
I spoke to Dana and a couple of guys outside 9 Bleeker today and these other
two guys, not Dana, were of the impression that we were smoking a joint in
this photo, but that is definitely not the case, because all the younger
folk in the room were so paranoid about the Times folk they refused to smoke
until the two Times men were gone.
LOL.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Yippies purchase their spiritual home

As I just noted on Jules’ Newsroom-L list,
I was at 9 Bleecker when the NYTimes reporter was there, and his photog
was
taking photos.
I’d been told (by someone who will remain unidentified- it was NOT the
reporter though) it was to be an article about ibogaine, but when I and
others showed up at the house, it turned out to be an article about Dana
Beal and the Yippies.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Yippies purchase their spiritual home

This is on topic only because they mention Dana’s work
on behalf of ibogaine at the end of this (I thought)
somewhat snarky piece.

Libby

excerpt–

Demonstrations during national political conventions
were planned there, as were annual pot parades calling
for the legalization of marijuana. A scarred wooden
door in the basement is a reminder of the day in 1981
that someone set off a bomb in front of the building.

Mr. Beal said he would also use the building as a base
to advocate the legalization of ibogaine, a derivative
of an African shrub that he said has the ability to
interrupt addiction to dangerous substances, like
heroin.

And, of course, the Yippies being Yippies, the
building has been abuzz with preparations for the
Republican convention. In the past weeks, people have
gathered on the ground floor, where they painted signs
to carry in protests during the convention.

“Yippies haven’t missed a convention since 1964,” Mr.
Beal said. “And this one is only a few blocks away.”

-end-

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

Guest blogger: Detroit News
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Dana/Ibogaine in NY Times
Date: August 30, 2004 at 5:57:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

wasn’t that supposed to be about me Howard? I thought ” this kid is the story”? Just kidding. Sorta. Thats great. Now wait unitl next weeks story. ;O)

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

NYTimes.com > New York Region

Anticapitalists, Marijuana Advocates Real Estate Barons?

By COLIN MOYNIHAN

Published: August 30, 2004

ver the decades the Yippies have become infamous as a counterculture group
known for colorful pranks and criticizing capitalism. Recently, though, the
group entered the world of high-stakes Manhattan real estate, buying the East
Village building that has been its longtime headquarters for $1.2 million.
Advertisement

In 1973, a few members of the group – begun by Abbie Hoffman, known for
scattering dollar bills onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and others
and officially called the Youth International Party – moved into the
three-story building at 9 Bleecker Street, near the Bowery. Over the years their monthly
rent rose to more than $8,000 from $675. In 2000 the building was sold, and
the Yippies faced eviction.
After months of negotiation, however, a deal was reached that will allow the
group, which first entered public consciousness during the Chicago Seven
political conspiracy trial following widespread disturbances during the 1968
Democratic convention, to hold onto its spiritual home.
A partnership formed with Yippie Holdings and an advocacy group called the
National AIDS Brigade paid the former owner, Harlan Berger, $100,000, said a
Yippie leader, Dana Beal, who has lived in the building since 1973. Mr. Berger
offered a loan in the form of a mortgage, Mr. Beal added, which the Yippies will
pay off at the rate of about $11,000 per month. The partnership will form a
nonprofit organization, Mr. Beal said, and turn the building into a Yippie
museum and an advocacy center to fight transmission of AIDS.
Mr. Beal said that since the Yippies co-own the building, he planned to use
the property as equity to quickly get loans to pay off the $1.1 million owed to
Mr. Berger. He said he also planned to use air rights to build an additional
story on the roof that could be sold or rented.
Mr. Berger did not return calls from this reporter, but a lawyer who
represented him in the transfer, Andrew Albstein, said the deed had been turned over
to the Yippies.
For the two dozen or so veteran Yippies who are still in New York, as well as
a handful of others scattered across the country, the building is far more
than a pile of bricks and mortar in a gentrifying district.
“Smoke-ins, rallies, protests,” Mr. Beal said, in a chair on the building’s
cluttered second floor. “This is where it all happened for us.”
Stacks of newspapers and books lined the loft-like room, including “My Life
in Garbology,” in which the Yippie A. J. Weberman described what he found while
rooting through the trash of such diverse figures as Bob Dylan and the former
F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover. Antiwar posters adorned the walls, and
several cats prowled the premises.
“This place is a temple of insurrection,” said Aron Kay, another longtime
Yippie.
There is plenty of history at No. 9, as the building is affectionately known
to visitors. It was there that newspapers like The Yipster Times, later called
Overthrow, was published.
Demonstrations during national political conventions were planned there, as
were annual pot parades calling for the legalization of marijuana. A scarred
wooden door in the basement is a reminder of the day in 1981 that someone set
off a bomb in front of the building.
Mr. Beal said he would also use the building as a base to advocate the
legalization of ibogaine, a derivative of an African shrub that he said has the
ability to interrupt addiction to dangerous substances, like heroin.
And, of course, the Yippies being Yippies, the building has been abuzz with
preparations for the Republican convention. In the past weeks, people have
gathered on the ground floor, where they painted signs to carry in protests during
the convention.
“Yippies haven’t missed a convention since 1964,” Mr. Beal said. “And this
one is only a few blocks away.”

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 3:21:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Callie-it does make sense (even to a simpleton like me! ;-))
Cheers,
lol Hannah x
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

In a message dated 8/30/2004 9:42:59 AM Central Daylight Time, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:
erm…everyone over here always says that Meth gets down into your bone
marrow and stays for ages but I think I read some research somewhere that
said that this is not true….

it isn’t anymore true than any other drug gets in your bones. Medications or any substances for that matter are transported in your blood. traces of meth could probably  be found in bone marrow but only because blood is in bone marrow.
Does that makes sense? It is hard to explain in simplistic terminology!
I know it feels like it gets in your bones! Your bones sure do ache without it! lol!
Callie

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thank you to everybody
Date: August 30, 2004 at 3:16:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,

BTW, I think you were right- I might have just been
making excuses to use some H again.  Posing my
questions to the list just put it all in perspective.

And also:  I agree with Jim- what you did for your
father was VERY nice, and I’m sure a lot of us would
consider doing exactly the same thing if our fathers
were in the same position as yours.  At 70, comfort
and happiness should be on the top of his lists of
priorities.  🙂

Once again, kudos and gracias,

Julie

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] thank you to everybody
Date: August 30, 2004 at 2:56:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, You are so welcome! Addicts are nice people until you mess with their drugs, then …..watch out! lol!
This list has some really intelligent folks and years and years of experience!
Welcome to the list Julie! You don’t have to have a problem to post! An interesting subject will get some food convos going! (By convos I  mean conversations!)
Peace, Callie

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Euphoria is a killer!
Date: August 30, 2004 at 2:24:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

What you did for your dad was very nice.  As a Lortab user I know that when you try to cut back there is a tremendos depression.  I have experienced it many times.  When you increase his dose it does not get him “high” as you know, it just gets him normal.  However, should you mention this to his doc I would be willing to bet that the doc will give him some SSRIs for the depression.  Strange, he went 70 years without SSRIs and now he needs it.  You did the right thing, your a sweetheart.

Best to you Callie

– JIM

CallieMimosa@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 8/29/2004 12:17:59 AM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
Does it boil down to wanting euphoria

I do miss that euphoria! That is the reason I loved opiates or love opiates so much!
My Dad had Prostate cancer that is responding well to treatment, really well. His bloodwork is all back in normal ranges and his treatments are over for now. His Doc cut out his Lortab 7.5’s. My Dad is a fucking wreck emotionally! I feel really bad for him. He only takes 3 or 4 a day and he is a mess without them.
Well, being the caretaking enabler I am, I have a friend who sells her script monthly so I bought it for my Dad.
When I went in he looked a mess. When I gave him that bottle of Lortabs he became so happy! Almost tearful!
He said he has been so depressed since he ran out. Said he hated everything. I feel so bad for him.
Well, I went over the next day and he was dressed his usual dapper way, his apartment was clean and he was cooking a big pot of white beans. All this change just over a few Lortab.
He said he felt better, had been to church and loved everybody again today! hahaha! I know it isn’t funny but my Dad is almost 70 years old and has cancer!
If giving him 90 Lortab a month will keep him this happy, I plan to buy that script for him every month.
I did talk to him and told him that Lortabs were essentially how I started out. Of course, this is hard for him to believe because all he remembers is the track marks and abscess I had that ‘showed’ him I was an addict.
I may be making a HUGE mistake. I do not want to turn my Dad into an addict but I can’t stand to see him the way he was without them.

Euphoria is addictive! That was my point to start out and I got off telling about Daddy but the euphoria is what has him hooked now!
Life is hard….isn’t it?
Callie
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] thank you to everybody
Date: August 30, 2004 at 2:25:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

Thank you sooo much for all the advice and tips you
have imparted to me.  Never before have I encountered
such a supportive and non-judgmental group of
ex/current addicts, users and afficianados(sp?).  I
value the information I receive here more than any
other list/group/support structure…

Keep on rockin’!

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] New website lists personal information about narcs, snitches.
Date: August 30, 2004 at 1:31:32 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 11:52 AM
Subject: [drugwar] New website lists personal information about narcs,
snitches.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Attorney Douglas Palaschak” <lawyerdude1989@yahoo.com>
To: <The_Lawyerdude@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:23 AM
Subject: [The_Lawyerdude] New website lists personal information about
narcs, snitches.

From:  Milo <shining@d…>
Date:  Sun Aug 29, 2004  11:01 pm

Henry Ayre <henri@alaska.net> wrote:
To:ParanoidTimes@yahoogroups.com
From: “Henry Ayre”
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:09:03 -0800
Subject: [ParanoidTimes] Cops smell rodent at ‘rat’-outing Web site

There is nothing more phoney than the “war on drugs.” For instance,
the CIA has been in the drug-running business for decades… big
time.  DEA officials “do it.” Politicians also. Large banks must
have the cash
flow from the drug trade to survive. But to make it appear real the
small fry must pay. Here is one man’s attempt to “level the playing
field” …

Cops smell rodent at ‘rat’-outing Web site
By Tom Farmer and Jennifer Rosinski, Boston Herald
Monday, August 23, 2004

A North Shore man’s Web site that encourages the posting of
informants’ identities and personal information about law
enforcement officers is drawing criticism from authorities in
Oklahoma.

The “Who’s A Rat” site (www.whosarat.com) was not put on the
Internet last week to endanger law officers or informants, said
founder Sean Bucci. Instead, it was posted to assist defense
attorneys and defendants with limited resources prepare for trial,
he said.

“It’s something that’s been needed for a long time. I’m trying to
level the playing field,” said Bucci, 31, who is fighting marijuana
dealing charges that landed him in jail for almost a year thanks to
a “heroin junkie and crack addict” snitch, whose stories led the DEA
to mount cameras on a pole in front of his house for nine months.

“From that I got a deep, deep hate for the system for the way they
handle informants. It’s sick. They take these big fish to catch
minnows,” said Bucci, a North Shore resident. “The site was designed
as just a tool to help people.”

But authorities in Oklahoma are among those questioning the site’s
accuracy and calling it irresponsible. Oklahoma City police Capt.
Jeffrey Becker says the
site could jeopardize undercover officers and informants.

The service, which is free, also offers listings for defense
attorneys. Bucci warns he has the right to edit or delete any
material that goes beyond free speech.

The site boasts it is the first of its kind and legal based on case
law Bucci has posted.

“Keep up the fight and never give in,” Bucci tells browsers.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [NEWSROOM-L] Yippies now Real Estate Moguls
Date: August 30, 2004 at 1:14:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@YAHOO.COM>
To: <NEWSROOM-L@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:37 AM
Subject: [NEWSROOM-L] Yippies now Real Estate Moguls

Of course they’re not but they did manage to buy the
building. Somewhat snarky tone to the piece I thought,
but still interesting to an old hippie.

Libby

Over the decades the Yippies have become infamous as a
counterculture group known for colorful pranks and
criticizing capitalism. Recently, though, the group
entered the world of high-stakes Manhattan real
estate, buying the East Village building that has been
its longtime headquarters for $1.2 million.

In 1973, a few members of the group – begun by Abbie
Hoffman, known for scattering dollar bills onto the
floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and others and
officially called the Youth International Party –
moved into the three-story building at 9 Bleecker
Street, near the Bowery. Over the years their monthly
rent rose to more than $8,000 from $675. In 2000 the
building was sold, and the Yippies faced eviction.

After months of negotiation, however, a deal was
reached that will allow the group, which first entered
public consciousness during the Chicago Seven
political conspiracy trial following widespread
disturbances during the 1968 Democratic convention, to
hold onto its spiritual home.

snip —

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

Guest blogger: Detroit News
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] treating addiction to drugs with drugs
Date: August 30, 2004 at 1:13:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Libby” <baystatebar@yahoo.com>
To: “drugwar” <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 8:14 AM
Subject: [drugwar] treating addiction to drugs with drugs

Here’s an article that rather fits into the recent
discussion on rehab. How unsurprising that ibogaine, a
natural substance is not mentioned but they do mention
expanding the use of these chemicals to eventually
“cure” cannabis addiction.

sigh,

Libby

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TREATING_ADDICTION?SITE=CALOS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

NEW YORK (AP) — Can Prozac help you kick cocaine? Can
Ritalin? How about a blood pressure pill or medicine
for muscle spasms? If you’re an alcoholic, could you
get help staying sober by taking an anti-nausea drug
used by cancer patients?

Scientists are exploring those questions right now. In
fact, in the field of addiction medicine, one of the
hottest sources of new drugs is … old drugs. Despite
years of research, there is no drug approved in the
United States for treating cocaine dependence. To find
such a treatment, the National Institute on Drug Abuse
is sponsoring human studies of 21 medicines already on
the market for something else. That’s about two-thirds
of all the potential cocaine drugs being tested in
people, says Frank Vocci, director of NIDA’s
pharmacotherapy division.

Over at the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and
Alcoholism, nearly all the potential alcoholism drugs
tested in people under institute sponsorship over the
past 10 years were previously approved for some other
use, says Raye Litten, co-leader of the institute’s
medications development team.

While the strategy is hardly new, “it’s been going on
maybe just a bit below the radar screen” for most of
the public, Vocci said.

It can certainly work. In 1997, for example, the
government approved a stop-smoking pill called Zyban,
which was in fact the older antidepressant Wellbutrin.

To be sure, experts haven’t given up on developing new
drugs. Most NIAAA-funded drug studies for alcoholism
that are in early stage testing – not yet tried on
people – are brand-new drugs, Litten said.

But the notion of examining current drugs for
addiction-breaking potential holds several advantages.
It’s a lot cheaper to get federal approval for a new
use of an old drug than to bring a completely new
medicine to market. And experience with an existing
drug gives an idea of its safety and dose range for
possible anti-addiction effects, Vocci said.
snip–

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/

Guest blogger: Detroit News
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/

email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibo and near death
Date: August 30, 2004 at 1:04:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

By the way I stopped being a vegetarian after being one for 27 years, after
the Iboga session.
I’m not a great meat eater but I’m more flexible, as long as it not a
factory food.<

Besides simply empathizing with the poor beasties, I find I cannot, or at
least do not at all want to eat processed food, as little as possible. Milk
is a bit processed, and cheese, but I don’t eat oatmeal suddenly (instant I
mean) and I don’t eat so much other stuff I ate before, you know, all the,
uh, oatmeal…and ice cream, and…ummmm, oatmeal.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:05 AM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo and near death

Many psycho-active plants give the experience of  Death/trauma.
It is part of the understanding that the plant teacher is trying to give
us.intence but
that will mostly give us more respect to life and living, the instinct of
staying alive is activated.
Then you like to share those values with other community member.  this
understanding other people can get only by having experienced the plant.
also not everyone who hears the sound like to listen to it. That is the
difference between the intensions & understanding of different people.
Some just like to try another drug and some feel that we are connected to
the plant teacher as a whole.

By the way I stopped being a vegetarian after being one for 27 years, after
the Iboga session.
I’m not a great meat eater but I’m more flexible, as long as it not a
factory food.

Sara

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what does ibogaine give us?
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:52:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
I’m forwarding this little note here to you all, as I’d again love
feedback- any thoughts in reply to the below messages? (The entire original
message is pasted below.)
Peace and love to all,
Preston
—–

Anne wrote >And after two and a half years – I wasn’t cured but I was more
articulate.
Then I took Ibogaine – which helped me to understand that I am indeed an
addict and always have been and might even stay one too.<

I think that’s entirely possible Anne.
As someone else told me recently, ibogaine does not give us what we
want, but rather, it gives us what we need. Perhaps, and I am a little loath
to write it, that is what you needed- to be at peace with the idea that you
are an addict and are supposed to using something or other that the The Man
has decreed illegal.
The whole, “this drug good, this drug bad” irks me to no end (btw,
thanks for the kind word the other Rickard L). Some of us were designed by
either nature or god (not sure really in my own mind which to be honest) to
be using some drug(s) and it is more of a sin to tell us we must stop using
or we’re going to really be screwed royally by The Man and his lackies for
our own good.
Perhaps ibogaine allowed you to rest easy with the idea that you are an
addict, and you are the only one who can really know this Anne.
Peace and love,
Preston
—–

Note I’m (Preston) responding to:

Thanks to Chuck Dederich – we now have brain police and that ilk running our
newest mind prisons – aka rehabs.  I spent two and a half years in Synanon –
they practiced mind control and got you hooked on screaming – oh yeah,
reality therapy where everybody gets in a room and plays rat pack as they
verbally cathart their guts out three times a week.

Dayflop, Phoenix Louse, all the way from catered meals at Betty Ford to
those eating donated garbage like hot dogs with purple coloring accidentally
added (that’s how we survived at Synanon) – they taught us how to go out and
procure goods from the community (beg).

And after two and a half years – I wasn’t cured but I was more articulate.
Then I took Ibogaine – which helped me to understand that I am indeed an
addict and always have been and might even stay one too.

LOLOL

Anne
http://www.eastvillagepoetry.com

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:16:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/30/2004 9:42:59 AM Central Daylight Time, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:
erm…everyone over here always says that Meth gets down into your bone
marrow and stays for ages but I think I read some research somewhere that
said that this is not true….

it isn’t anymore true than any other drug gets in your bones. Medications or any substances for that matter are transported in your blood. traces of meth could probably  be found in bone marrow but only because blood is in bone marrow.
Does that makes sense? It is hard to explain in simplistic terminology!
I know it feels like it gets in your bones! Your bones sure do ache without it! lol!
Callie

From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: August 30, 2004 at 11:52:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am definately impatient. I just came out of another relationship (gay) that went terribly south because of our use. I tend to like to fix things and though I realize this is a process I need to nurture I tend to want to push things along.

I’ve done alot around recovery in the past, have started and facilitied secular recovery groups for years but ended up feeling trapped in them. This time I’m trying to do things differently. I just got a new therapist. I read some of his books and really liked where he is coming from (Jungian/buddhist). He seems to be a combination of the archetypal and practical. I have lined up a friend to do body work with with me and am reaching out to non-using friends, all of whom are supportive.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 20:21:01 EDT

In a message dated 8/27/2004 4:03:05 PM Central Daylight Time,
darkmattersfo@hotmail.com writes:

want to  do it as soon as possible but the cost of going to Mexico is too
much for  me righ now. I thought about importing but that seems risky so I am

exploring my options right now.

I feel as you and want to be treated ASAP BUT……..I am on a high dose of
Methadone since 1998 and my funds are limited. I am slowly coming down on my
Methadone dose. I was decreasing 2mg every 2 weeks for 3 or 4 months but got
to  feeling grouchy and anxious so I have temporarily stopped. I am also
sticking  back at least 50 bucks a paycheck to hopefully pay for treatment in a
clinical  setting.
I would love to hurry and start my journey but it is impossible at this
time.. I am trying to control my “self will run riot” and sit tight and wait my
turn.
I am a believer that things happen as they should as long as I do the next
right thing and keep my ‘bright ideas’ or will out of it.
I hate the words Higher Power. I prefer God but it turns people off as soon
as I say it but God does a great job in my life if I stay out of it!
Share whatever you want about yourself. Do you have offspring, married,
single, occupation or not…..whatever you feel like makes you, you!
Peace, Callie

_________________________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Dana/Ibogaine in NY Times
Date: August 30, 2004 at 11:38:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

NYTimes.com > New York Region

Anticapitalists, Marijuana Advocates Real Estate Barons?

By COLIN MOYNIHAN

Published: August 30, 2004

ver the decades the Yippies have become infamous as a counterculture group
known for colorful pranks and criticizing capitalism. Recently, though, the
group entered the world of high-stakes Manhattan real estate, buying the East
Village building that has been its longtime headquarters for $1.2 million.
Advertisement

In 1973, a few members of the group – begun by Abbie Hoffman, known for
scattering dollar bills onto the floor of the New York Stock Exchange, and others
and officially called the Youth International Party – moved into the
three-story building at 9 Bleecker Street, near the Bowery. Over the years their monthly
rent rose to more than $8,000 from $675. In 2000 the building was sold, and
the Yippies faced eviction.
After months of negotiation, however, a deal was reached that will allow the
group, which first entered public consciousness during the Chicago Seven
political conspiracy trial following widespread disturbances during the 1968
Democratic convention, to hold onto its spiritual home.
A partnership formed with Yippie Holdings and an advocacy group called the
National AIDS Brigade paid the former owner, Harlan Berger, $100,000, said a
Yippie leader, Dana Beal, who has lived in the building since 1973. Mr. Berger
offered a loan in the form of a mortgage, Mr. Beal added, which the Yippies will
pay off at the rate of about $11,000 per month. The partnership will form a
nonprofit organization, Mr. Beal said, and turn the building into a Yippie
museum and an advocacy center to fight transmission of AIDS.
Mr. Beal said that since the Yippies co-own the building, he planned to use
the property as equity to quickly get loans to pay off the $1.1 million owed to
Mr. Berger. He said he also planned to use air rights to build an additional
story on the roof that could be sold or rented.
Mr. Berger did not return calls from this reporter, but a lawyer who
represented him in the transfer, Andrew Albstein, said the deed had been turned over
to the Yippies.
For the two dozen or so veteran Yippies who are still in New York, as well as
a handful of others scattered across the country, the building is far more
than a pile of bricks and mortar in a gentrifying district.
“Smoke-ins, rallies, protests,” Mr. Beal said, in a chair on the building’s
cluttered second floor. “This is where it all happened for us.”
Stacks of newspapers and books lined the loft-like room, including “My Life
in Garbology,” in which the Yippie A. J. Weberman described what he found while
rooting through the trash of such diverse figures as Bob Dylan and the former
F.B.I. director J. Edgar Hoover. Antiwar posters adorned the walls, and
several cats prowled the premises.
“This place is a temple of insurrection,” said Aron Kay, another longtime
Yippie.
There is plenty of history at No. 9, as the building is affectionately known
to visitors. It was there that newspapers like The Yipster Times, later called
Overthrow, was published.
Demonstrations during national political conventions were planned there, as
were annual pot parades calling for the legalization of marijuana. A scarred
wooden door in the basement is a reminder of the day in 1981 that someone set
off a bomb in front of the building.
Mr. Beal said he would also use the building as a base to advocate the
legalization of ibogaine, a derivative of an African shrub that he said has the
ability to interrupt addiction to dangerous substances, like heroin.
And, of course, the Yippies being Yippies, the building has been abuzz with
preparations for the Republican convention. In the past weeks, people have
gathered on the ground floor, where they painted signs to carry in protests during
the convention.
“Yippies haven’t missed a convention since 1964,” Mr. Beal said. “And this
one is only a few blocks away.”

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 10:46:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

erm…everyone over here always says that Meth gets down into your bone
marrow and stays for ages but I think I read some research somewhere that
said that this is not true….
—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:35 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:35:31 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I don’t understand???

As you know meth stays in your system,bones,ect for some time.If I didnot

take Meth for

say..2weeks,I would still be very sick(probably in the middle of it).

I am sure with your experience you have reason for saying this.Is it
because

of the ibogaine,

all you need to do is be off meth for two weeks?

Curious and with smiles >>

Jasen,

I am uncertain on the issue of methadone staying in your bones.  I have
never
seen a research paper to indicate such.  That of course does not mean that
it
is not so.  And I cannot say anything with certainty.  And possibly like
some
other patients you would require a booster or a second treatment.  Every
patient is different.  If ibogaine were a national institute on drug abuse
project
possibly we could have a few hundred patients who could be treated after
being on short acting narcotics following methadone for two or four weeks
for
comparison.  Medicine is an art as well as a science and requires careful
observation of the patient to determine their welfare and the effects of
the
medications with which they are treated.

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H- Charlie
Date: August 30, 2004 at 8:13:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Anybody who doles out the meds knowing what they are getting into has a complete heart of gold. Aint’ that right Mama.lol hahahahah     Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine]
Date: August 30, 2004 at 6:26:28 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jasen,

I’m very near the U.K if you think AUSTRALIAN , 20 minutes from Amsterdam airport, in the countryside’.
It is hard to give a straight answer. Only one person asked his methadone back because he was too afraid to quit.
The rest left the house clean. A treatment from a 100+ mg of methadone is two weeks.
in those two weeks a person gets as many booster doses,  ( dose a Iboga will give a person energy and take the pain away)
As needed, also magic mushroom which relaxed the muscles and help to restore sleep for some it gives new insight about their Iboga treatment, and Cannabis which is one of my sacrament and proven
To be of a great benefit to many people during their two weeks stay. Santa-Maria will potentate the Iboga which means that you don’t need to take high doses of Iboga.
I have done about 150 treatments, some repeated treatments of people who need more then one treatment.
The success of the treatment is a combination of things, What DH has suggested , a support system post –Ibo is one of them, or
If a person has a job, school, relationship or simply just new passion for life.

All the best,

Sara

Van: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Verzonden: maandag 30 augustus 2004 11:48
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine]

Dear Sara,
Are you the Sara that does treatment in the UK?
If so,how many meth’ patients have you done and in a nutshell,how was the success rate.

Your experiences are very much appreciated.
Thankyou,with smiles Jasen (Aus)
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo and near death

Many psycho-active plants give the experience of  Death/trauma.
It is part of the understanding that the plant teacher is trying to give us.intence but
that will mostly give us more respect to life and living, the instinct of staying alive is activated.
Then you like to share those values with other community member.  this understanding other people can get only by having experienced the plant.
also not everyone who hears the sound like to listen to it. That is the difference between the intensions & understanding of different people.
Some just like to try another drug and some feel that we are connected to the plant teacher as a whole.

By the way I stopped being a vegetarian after being one for 27 years, after the Iboga session.
I’m not a great meat eater but I’m more flexible, as long as it not a factory food.

Sara

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]
Date: August 30, 2004 at 5:48:01 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Sara,
Are you the Sara that does treatment in the UK?
If so,how many meth’ patients have you done and in a nutshell,how was the success rate.

Your experiences are very much appreciated.
Thankyou,with smiles Jasen (Aus)
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 7:05 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo and near death

Many psycho-active plants give the experience of  Death/trauma.
It is part of the understanding that the plant teacher is trying to give us.intence but
that will mostly give us more respect to life and living, the instinct of staying alive is activated.
Then you like to share those values with other community member.  this understanding other people can get only by having experienced the plant.
also not everyone who hears the sound like to listen to it. That is the difference between the intensions & understanding of different people.
Some just like to try another drug and some feel that we are connected to the plant teacher as a whole.

By the way I stopped being a vegetarian after being one for 27 years, after the Iboga session.
I知 not a great meat eater but I知 more flexible, as long as it not a factory food.

Sara

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] ibo and near death
Date: August 30, 2004 at 5:05:36 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Many psycho-active plants give the experience of  Death/trauma.
It is part of the understanding that the plant teacher is trying to give us.intence but
that will mostly give us more respect to life and living, the instinct of staying alive is activated.
Then you like to share those values with other community member.  this understanding other people can get only by having experienced the plant.
also not everyone who hears the sound like to listen to it. That is the difference between the intensions & understanding of different people.
Some just like to try another drug and some feel that we are connected to the plant teacher as a whole.

By the way I stopped being a vegetarian after being one for 27 years, after the Iboga session.
I’m not a great meat eater but I’m more flexible, as long as it not a factory food.

Sara

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] More on Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 4:55:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard,
not at all,please don’t be sorry.
I very much appreciate all your responces,and as you have detoxed
people before,and with all your knowledge of Ibogaine.I very much respect
your feedback.
With admiration and smiles Jasen (Aus)

Jasen,

Possibly I have been too rash to exclude whatever level of discomfort you
or
any other person may experience.  Sorry about that.

Howard

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 3:59:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Verzonden: maandag 30 augustus 2004 7:36
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:35:31 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I don’t understand???

As you know meth stays in your system,bones,ect for some time.If I didnot

take Meth for

say..2weeks,I would still be very sick(probably in the middle of it).

I am sure with your experience you have reason for saying this.Is it because

of the ibogaine,

all you need to do is be off meth for two weeks?

Curious and with smiles >>

Jasen,

I am uncertain on the issue of methadone staying in your bones.  I have
never
seen a research paper to indicate such.  That of course does not mean that
it
is not so.  And I cannot say anything with certainty.  And possibly like
some
other patients you would require a booster or a second treatment.  Every
patient is different.  If ibogaine were a national institute on drug abuse
project
possibly we could have a few hundred patients who could be treated after
being on short acting narcotics following methadone for two or four weeks
for
comparison.  Medicine is an art as well as a science and requires careful
observation of the patient to determine their welfare and the effects of the

medications with which they are treated.

Howard

Howard,

There is NO paper indicating that Methadone remains in the bone and bone
marrow , who is going to pay for such a paper? certainly not the one who
makes huge profit of Meth. Or the patients Organizations.
I observed patients who came here, most of them were on methadone
They All say it feels as the Meth. remains in the bone or even bone marrow,
nothing like a short working opiates. there is no mice/rat that took
methadone for 10 years or more.
The Dutch Drug authorities don’t care how much Meth. Or other drugs people
take as long as it’s being paid for and those who are sedated are not
causing any trouble on the streets. the authorities “think” that anyways
those kind of people like to be sedated.
I just heard on a TV program that 9 of the 10 decisions of authorities are
based on misinformation. a research that has been done in 20 different
countries.

sara

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] More on Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 2:59:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/30/04 12:36:40 AM, HSLotsof@aol.com writes:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:35:31 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I don’t understand???

As you know meth stays in your system,bones,ect for some time.If I did not
take Meth for say..2weeks,I would still be very sick(probably in the middle
of it).
I am sure with your experience you have reason for saying this.Is it because
of the ibogaine, all you need to do is be off meth for two weeks?

Curious and with smiles

Jasen,

I am uncertain on the issue of methadone staying in your bones.  I have
never seen a research paper to indicate such.  That of course does not mean
that
it is not so.  And I cannot say anything with certainty.  And possibly like
some other patients you would require a booster or a second treatment.  Every
patient is different.  If ibogaine were a national institute on drug abuse
project possibly we could have a few hundred patients who could be treated
after
being on short acting narcotics following methadone for two or four weeks
for comparison.  Medicine is an art as well as a science and requires careful
observation of the patient to determine their welfare and the effects of
the medications with which they are treated.

Howard

Jasen,

Possibly I have been too rash to exclude whatever level of discomfort you or
any other person may experience.  Sorry about that.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 1:35:49 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:35:31 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I don’t understand???

As you know meth stays in your system,bones,ect for some time.If I didnot

take Meth for

say..2weeks,I would still be very sick(probably in the middle of it).

I am sure with your experience you have reason for saying this.Is it because

of the ibogaine,

all you need to do is be off meth for two weeks?

Curious and with smiles >>

Jasen,

I am uncertain on the issue of methadone staying in your bones.  I have never
seen a research paper to indicate such.  That of course does not mean that it
is not so.  And I cannot say anything with certainty.  And possibly like some
other patients you would require a booster or a second treatment.  Every
patient is different.  If ibogaine were a national institute on drug abuse project
possibly we could have a few hundred patients who could be treated after
being on short acting narcotics following methadone for two or four weeks for
comparison.  Medicine is an art as well as a science and requires careful
observation of the patient to determine their welfare and the effects of the
medications with which they are treated.

Howard

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Schedule I
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:39:16 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello dear Howard,
I know this is probably a big ask,can I have a contact number so I can speak
to you in person?
Please.
Smiles Jasen (Aus)

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:35:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Dear Howard,
I don’t understand???
As you know meth stays in your system,bones,ect for some time.If I didnot
take Meth for
say..2weeks,I would still be very sick(probably in the middle of it).
I am sure with your experience you have reason for saying this.Is it because
of the ibogaine,
all you need to do is be off meth for two weeks?
Curious and with smiles
Jasen (Aus)

In a message dated 8/29/04 8:43:20 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< .if you found a docter that was prepared to supply you(Orally)with say

morphine or dilauded for three months, >>

If you are talking about substituting short acting opioids for methadone
prior to an ibogaine treatment, I think a week or two would at the most do
for
most people.

Howard

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From: “Valerie Dionne” <missvalstar@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question about thyroid and IBO – Doctor?
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:33:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is under my impressions that the therapy house does not accept clients with serious psychiatric illnesses such as schizophrenia but we all know that most people who have been addicts have been depressed at some point, and most people show signs of depression when seeking treatment (obviously something is wrong if it’s(lifestyle/patterns) not working anymore, right?)
Val 🙂

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question about thyroid and IBO – Doctor?
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:28:54 EDT

Where is a doctor when you need one to answer a question.  See below.
Anything I would tell you would be guess.

Howard

In a message dated 8/28/04 6:18:52 PM, trtye@gci.net writes:

>Howard, perhaps you can tell me (or anyone else) why ibogaine might be
>contraindicated for someone with a thyroid condition? What about Barrett’s
>Esophagus (bad case of G.E.R.D.)? What if these conditions have been
stabilized
>for some time with medications?
>
>
>
>For instance, Iboga Therapy House states in their FAQ that they will not
>treat anyone with …. [a long list of health conditions] … which include
>thyroid problems, gastrointestinal problems and psychiatric problems.
Wouldn’t
>that last one eliminate just about all of us?
>
>
>
>I know they have to protect themselves and I greatly respect what they
>do, but I am curious as to the medical reasons why you wouldn’t treat someone
>with hypothyroid (like me) or possibly acid reflux (Barrett’s esophagus
>- me too) and of course psychiatric problems (nothing interesting, just
>common old clinical depression).
>
>Thanks for answers and/or directions to someone who can answer. Good thoughts
>to all of you, Terrell

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_________________________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Schedule I
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:14:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just a reminder to this list.  Ibogaine is a schedule I substance in the
United States and carries criminal penalties for possession or sale or conspiracy
to sell or give away.  This is the internet.  You do not know who is on the
other end of your computer.

Howard

In a message dated 8/29/04 10:48:48 PM, UUSEAN@aol.com writes:

<< I think your concerns are grounded in reality.  I will not give out any
provider information on this list, or even let on that may have some.  I feel
that
private mail is the way to, and even then to be very careful.  The few off
list conversations I have had have been very respectful of this, which I
appreciate.

That said, I have taken chances here that I would take on no other list
because I feel that ibogaine is so vital for addict seeking relief from the
prison
of active heroin or dope addiction. I have given my phone number, and
continue
to help with what little info I have post NYC guerilla action.

But the feds, jail..these are realities.  And the Internet is always under
scrutiny from Big Brother Ashcroft and Company, who have absolutely no
compassion for our cause.  Look at the way they handle medical marijuana.

Bottom line: Your concerns are valid. IMO Keep all provider type questions
off line, and even then observe great caution.

Of course I’m just some junkie in Jersey that pretended to take ibo on a
Internet list to get attention.  Ibogaine?  Wouldn’t really know it if I
tripped
over it……:) >>

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for charlie and all
Date: August 30, 2004 at 12:14:02 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some junkie in NJ wrote >Of course I’m just some junkie in Jersey that
pretended to take ibo on a Internet list to get attention.  Ibogaine?
Wouldn’t really know it if I tripped over it……:)<

LOL, yeah, I hear you. Ibogaine? Wazat?
Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for charlie and all

Hi Preston,

I think your concerns are grounded in reality.  I will not give out any
provider information on this list, or even let on that may have some.  I
feel that private mail is the way to, and even then to be very careful.  The
few off list conversations I have had have been very respectful of this,
which I appreciate.

That said, I have taken chances here that I would take on no other list
because I feel that ibogaine is so vital for addict seeking relief from the
prison of active heroin or dope addiction. I have given my phone number, and
continue to help with what little info I have post NYC guerilla action.

But the feds, jail..these are realities.  And the Internet is always under
scrutiny from Big Brother Ashcroft and Company, who have absolutely no
compassion for our cause.  Look at the way they handle medical marijuana.

Bottom line: Your concerns are valid. IMO Keep all provider type questions
off line, and even then observe great caution.

Of course I’m just some junkie in Jersey that pretended to take ibo on a
Internet list to get attention.  Ibogaine?  Wouldn’t really know it if I
tripped over it……:)
Pax,
Sean

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:50:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Will keep in touch Preston man!  Holding good thoughts for your body parts…may they hold up in the Purple Rain.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] for charlie and all
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:47:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I think your concerns are grounded in reality.  I will not give out any provider information on this list, or even let on that may have some.  I feel that private mail is the way to, and even then to be very careful.  The few off list conversations I have had have been very respectful of this, which I appreciate.

That said, I have taken chances here that I would take on no other list because I feel that ibogaine is so vital for addict seeking relief from the prison of active heroin or dope addiction. I have given my phone number, and continue to help with what little info I have post NYC guerilla action.

But the feds, jail..these are realities.  And the Internet is always under scrutiny from Big Brother Ashcroft and Company, who have absolutely no compassion for our cause.  Look at the way they handle medical marijuana.

Bottom line: Your concerns are valid. IMO Keep all provider type questions off line, and even then observe great caution.

Of course I’m just some junkie in Jersey that pretended to take ibo on a Internet list to get attention.  Ibogaine?  Wouldn’t really know it if I tripped over it……:)
Pax,
Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:37:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jim
You are in Canada?
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

To Julie and Jason and Callie,

Jason gave some very good advice.  If I could give a suggestion, few doctors
will write a script for dilauded or methadone since both are schedule II and
you must be dying to get AND have a note from your parents.  Hey, a little
humor can sometimes help.  I can not possibly read all the mail on the
mindvox.  I mean like I got 127 just today.  However, if you have a vaild
reason to have something like Tylenol #4 or Lortab or perks, I  have found
it eaiser to detox from pills.  With dillies you are more likely to shoot
the drugs and they are very hard to get from the Doc and VERY expensive to
get off the street.  If your able to get a doctor to write for Lortab or
codeine I would say give that a try.  However, that is eaiser said than
done.  A word of caution, if you go to more than one doctor and get the same
narcotic drug the pharmacist may call the one or both of the doctors and
tell them that you going from doctor to d! octor looking for durgs.  In some
states like Florida it is against the law to do that.  It is called doctor
shopping.  Twice I had a pharmacist call the doctor and say I was doctor
shopping.  I even had a doctor call the other doctor.  Sometimes if you have
been in a car accident or have a reason for taking a large amount of pain
medication you may be better off trying a pain clinic.  However, some will
try their therapy rather than write for a large amount of narcotics.  Also,
you may want to check out subutex via Google.  You can get a list of doctors
that prescribe suboxone.  From what I hear it is eaiser than detoxing from
methadone.  There are not all that many options available.  Also, there is
such a thing as ultra rapid detox where they put you to sleep then inject
you with naltrexone.  I have heard good and bad about it.  Also, it is very
expensive, like a few grand  or more.  If you live in Cana! da where it is
legal you may ask on the forum who has it and how much.  I wish I could
recomend someone but I don’t know any sellers.  In the United States it is
illegal in any form.

Hope I helped somewhat, if you find a suplier who will ship to Canada please
let me know that way I may be of help to others as well as myself.  If you
do not, write me at jimhadey3 at yahoo.com.  I have heard of a person will
ship to a P.O. Box in Canada.  He works it by debiting your debit or charge
account in Eros.  I can not vouge for his honesty.  I therefore ask people
for feedback.  Also, it is a dangerous drug to take by yourself.  I am sure
you know that people can get sick and vomit and sometimes drowned in their
own vomit.  And I know several people who took it and did vomit.  I know how
hard it is to get off methadone.  Most everyone I know kicked methadone by
using H or some of the pills I mentioned earlier.

Best of luck to ya, I may have some more information later this week from a
person who went to a place called Eurthogardens (sp) or some place like
that.  The person said that they would get in touch with me and let me know
how things went.  However, not one person on this forum had a good thing to
say about Eurthogardens(sp), just a word to the wise.  It seems it is so
easy to get ripped off when dealing on the net.

Hope I helped, best of luck to ya,

– JIM

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Dear Julie,
I know exactly where you are comming from.
Yes methadone is a lot harder to come off,HOWEVER,the good thing about
methadone
is that it gives you the opportunity to get back to living a relativley
normal life,it keeps you away from the scene
and all it’s ugliness.I have considered what you are considering,..use for
say…three months and then by that time
the meth’would be out of my system,and then it would take only one week to
come off,rather than 6 weeks.
Believe me when I say I understand your logic,however, dear Julie,it doesn’t
work.The only way it might work
is….if you found a docter that was prepared to supply you(Orally)with say
morphine or dilauded for three months,
unfortunatley this is highly unlikley.Meth” gives us the opportunity to make
different friends that are conducive to
our recovery,get a jo! b and put things in place that will help us to stay
away from Heroin(I almost cringe when I write the whole word Heroin)
I think the “cringe”comes from the shame of knowing heroin.

Yes Julie,it is a very long and emotionaly painful journey reducing off the
Meth”. Untill you decide which way you will detox,I would stay on the done
and keep reducing very slowly. I know I know,it’s f….d,it’s so slow,and
the shame that goes with it is sometimes to much to bear,having to go and
pick up your dose,
the clinic and all the other negatives.Sometimes we feel so stuck that we
just cry and cry and cry.Tears flow down my face as I write “cry” I know
where your at.

Life is now,it’s happening right now,even while we are on this “medicine”We
have to stop thinking of what we are going to do when we get off the done,
when we get straight,and do them now,..right now. I know it is harder whilst
on the done, as the done gives us a false sense of security! and kills a lot
of our motivation,dampens our drive. As you know Julie,with each reduction
we get back a little more of ourselves,we look a little healthier,get a
little more motivated.
I have found that what you eat whilst reducing makes a massive
difference,yes “MASSIVE”,and drinking a lot of water.We have all heard this
before,
but you know what, it is so very powerfully true.

I suggest stay on the done for now,reduce very slowly, live life now and
start doing the things you dream of doing when you are off the done,and
then, when
you are ready, do the Ibogaine treatment.I have not done the treatment as
yet but plan to,I just don’t know where to go to do it,the Panamas sound
ideal
but the warranted expence puts it out of reach

I understand your frustration,your anguish and your sadness,you are not
alone there are many of us in the same boat,I myself sometimes find it
almost to much to bear and just feel like going hom! e to join my
mother,father and brother in heaven,I am sure the thought of going back home
has entered many of our minds.
We hang in there.Society cannot understand,which makes it harder,most
doctors don’t understand,it’s a sickness and because you are on the done,you
are getting better and you will be cured soon.Don’t be in a hurry,a mistake
I have made many times.If you come off done to quick it brings to much to
the surface to quickly.
Although at the time of being on a comfortable dose of done,the thought of
using and the scene almost disgusts us,and we think we know that there is no
way we will use again.If you come off to quick you have a very high risk of
using again.I would suggest 10% of your dose every three weeks,even this is
quick.

As you know when you have a reduction you normally feel it (a little)for
about 10 days,so to come down every two weeks IMO does not give your
emotions, mind and body enough of a rest between reductions.This is why I
say every three weeks,so you have a little rest in between.

May the angels of light guide you to freedom,health and all you choose
for you highest good.
With understanding and smiles Jasen (Aus) 🙂

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26. I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that. All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t. Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed? I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me. But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive! , but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:36:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

may come back Thursday night for a rally.<

Let us know, as that’s the day I think I may very well go out and add my
spirit to the mix- as that’s the day the marchers are actually going to
reach Madison Square Garden. I simply gotta be a part of that one.
Peace and love and I’d love to meet up for that Sean.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Howard?

Howard,

Thanks for the reminder about being kind and loving to oneself.  Fear really
can be a killer, and I agree that it is a great driver of addiction.  One
thing I have allowed myself is the right to smoke weed if I like.  I used to
demand total abstinence of myself, then when I smoked a doob or had a drink,
I failed, and was now had license to hit the glass stem with a fury.

My goal is no crack. Period.  I don’t like heroin alone enough I decided
that it calls to me like the crack. I have become involved with NJ Indy
media, I marched today, may come back Thursday night for a rally.  I am
going to work every day.

Yes, thanks for the reminder!

Pax,
Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Re:oops! [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:35:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

no stress Charlie,
I knew who you were directing your note to, but I sometimes feel like
piping up too.
;-)))
Peace and love to you and to all,
Preston
(I’m gonna go out dancing tonight, so please pray for my back and leg- I
going to Lotus- big swanky yuppie bar in Manhattan where V bartends – legal
drug dealing, I gotta love that- overrun with bridge and tunnelers and
hip-hoppers, neither being my prefered crowd, but so what? I gotta go Out!-
to the 20th anniversary party for Purple Rain- and I don’t even much like
Prince- LOL- but still, going out is a “new” thing again to me, and keeps me
distracted for stress and mess.)

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Re:oops! [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Preston,

I hope you didn’t think that paragraph was meant for you; I was giving
Julie
some input on her dilemma. I can tell you’re in a pretty squared away
situation …… if you try to mess up, you’ve got V there to kick the
wholly living shit out of you ; =  )
This is for you though: You sound like you have a great life, that’s just
going to get better … as long as you keep up the good work!
Peace and love back at you and all who matter to you,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a
reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on the Meth, the better
(but
you know that already).<

As I tried to say before, V and I are in total agreement with her
continuing
to dool my script out to me. That way at those times when I think,
“gosh,
I
am hurting/pissed off/sad/happy/alive” come over me, I have a little
help
with resisting the temptation to simply take extra pills.
I can always ransack the apartment looking for my script, but she’d
then
know something was up, I’d have to admit I did it, and well, I don’t
wanna.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

PS:  Although Suboxone works well for some, there is still a problem
with
the half-life, or how long it stays in your system.  I only mention this
in
case you’re thinking of giving it a try.  However, I believe you can
take
Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those
facts,
I
am not a practitioner.  I still think having MS Contin (Morphine)
portioned
out to you may be a reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on
the
Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
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—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by
taking
about 10 Ultram a day.  All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by
4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad.   Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known
then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie:  I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an
8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit.  I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but
was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok.  Although I was mainly
on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would
wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a
very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the
first
week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both
played
a part.  However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped
straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump
from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra
Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition.
Guess
what?  I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on
tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday).  I still think it’s a valid idea; just
not
one we tend to follow through with.  If you could handle some
Hydrocodone
or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d
be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
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—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?<

Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final
kicking
stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a
few
months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for
my
pain
whatsoever
But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while
kicking
(though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and
useless
when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in
mind
I
began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone-
then
anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot
while
kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in
2000
sucked big time.
And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything
really,
not
just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I
had
enough strength to pick it up again.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:33:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 8:43:20 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< .if you found a docter that was prepared to supply you(Orally)with say

morphine or dilauded for three months, >>

If you are talking about substituting short acting opioids for methadone
prior to an ibogaine treatment, I think a week or two would at the most do for
most people.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:29:50 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And as for the pot, I come form the harm reduction approach.  It sure is
better than if you had done H.  If it makes you wanna get dope more though,
I guess that could be an issue.<

I was also thinking about this tonight- Mark and all, please be careful of
the alcohol, which personally I feel will lead more to “relapse” than
anything else, certainly more readily than will pot.
My thoughts anyway.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)

Hi Marc,

Really glad you didn’t pick up.  And as for the pot, I come form the harm
reduction approach.  It sure is better than if you had done H.  If it makes
you wanna get dope more though, I guess that could be an issue.  But the
weed in of itself is not a slip in my book.

I find the going getting harder as the days go by myself.  Helping others
like you are is a proven way to stay clean.  I really think that is the path
I need to be on.

Anyway, did the big march in the city today.  Never could have done it if I
smoked crack the night before.  Retuning to my activism is really one of the
first gifts of having done ibo believe.  There is such a big world out there
beyond me.:)  When I was using crack it was only about me and the next
blast, and the dope to come down with.

Thanks,
Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:27:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the “cringe”comes from the shame of knowing heroin.<

Damn it Jason, no SHAME, none at all. Do Not Feel Ashamed because the
prohibitionist have turned you into a criminal for using dope. It isn’t a
“real” crime- although some of the things I myself have done to get dope in
the past were “real” crimes, (for which I sometimes still, even years later,
feel shame for) I myself feel no shame at all for my using dope- none.
Peace and love to all, (and that damn it Jason was emphatic, not angry or
yelling, promise.)
preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Dear Julie,
I know exactly where you are comming from.
Yes methadone is a lot harder to come off,HOWEVER,the good thing about
methadone
is that it gives you the opportunity to get back to living a relativley
normal life,it keeps you away from the scene
and all it’s ugliness.I have considered what you are considering,..use for
say…three months and then by that time
the meth’would be out of my system,and then it would take only one week to
come off,rather than 6 weeks.
Believe me when I say I understand your logic,however, dear Julie,it
doesn’t
work.The only way it might work
is….if you found a docter that was prepared to supply you(Orally)with
say
morphine or dilauded for three months,
unfortunatley this is highly unlikley.Meth” gives us the opportunity to
make
different friends that are conducive to
our recovery,get a job and put things in place that will help us to stay
away from Heroin(I almost cringe when I write the whole word Heroin)
I think the “cringe”comes from the shame of knowing heroin.

Yes Julie,it is a very long and emotionaly painful journey reducing off
the
Meth”. Untill you decide which way you will detox,I would stay on the done
and keep reducing very slowly. I know I know,it’s f….d,it’s so slow,and
the shame that goes with it is sometimes to much to bear,having to go and
pick up your dose,
the clinic and all the other negatives.Sometimes we feel so stuck that we
just cry and cry and cry.Tears flow down my face as I write “cry” I know
where your at.

Life is now,it’s happening right now,even while we are on this
“medicine”We
have to stop thinking of what we are going to do when we get off the done,
when we get straight,and do them now,..right now. I know it is harder
whilst
on the done, as the done gives us a false sense of security and kills a
lot
of our motivation,dampens our drive. As you know Julie,with each reduction
we get back a little more of ourselves,we look a little healthier,get a
little more motivated.
I have found that what you eat whilst reducing makes a massive
difference,yes “MASSIVE”,and drinking a lot of water.We have all heard
this
before,
but you know what, it is so very powerfully true.

I suggest stay on the done for now,reduce very slowly, live life now and
start doing the things you dream of doing when you are off the done,and
then, when
you are ready, do the Ibogaine treatment.I have not done the treatment as
yet but plan to,I just don’t know where to go to do it,the Panamas sound
ideal
but the warranted expence puts it out of reach

I understand your frustration,your anguish and your sadness,you are not
alone there are many of us in the same boat,I myself sometimes find it
almost to much to bear and just feel like going home to join my
mother,father and brother in heaven,I am sure the thought of going back
home
has entered many of our minds.
We hang in there.Society cannot understand,which makes it harder,most
doctors don’t understand,it’s a sickness and because you are on the
done,you
are getting better and you will be cured soon.Don’t be in a hurry,a
mistake
I have made many times.If you come off done to quick it brings to much to
the surface to quickly.
Although at the time of being on a comfortable dose of done,the thought of
using and the scene almost disgusts us,and we think we know that there is
no
way we will use again.If you come off to quick you have a very high risk
of
using again.I would suggest 10% of your dose every three weeks,even this
is
quick.

As you know when you have a reduction you normally feel it (a little)for
about 10 days,so to come down every two weeks IMO does not give your
emotions, mind and body enough of a rest between reductions.This is why I
say every three weeks,so you have a little rest in between.

May the angels of light guide you to freedom,health and all you choose
for you highest good.
With understanding and smiles Jasen (Aus) 🙂

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H- Charlie
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:24:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So, I don’t put him in that horrible position anymore!<

LOL, gosh golly this sounds familier, but I do have V in that position
still, willingly on both our parts. But there were plenty of times where we
were not getting along for one reason or other and her having control over
my meds wasn’t really too cool- for either of us. She withholding them
because of PMS, or me just being a weenie and saying, “darn it girl I want
MORE.”
Anyway, it works for us- but I speak only for my own situation. As one
provider told me pre-ibo, I wasn’t allowed to keep any opiates in the house
during the session because even if I gave it to my lover to hold, she
wouldn’t be able to resist handing me what I wanted after enough stress and
fighting, so we avoided it by getting all opiates outta the apartment prior
to ibo-session number one. Session two I had both scripts in the house, but
was in a VERY different head space by then, so no risks there.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H- Charlie

In a message dated 8/29/2004 7:56:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
My
boyfriend would be holding my meds, so no f*ck ups.

That has never worked for me! It only caused a few arguments, a couple of
fights and him telling me, as he throws all the meds to me, “Take all of
them….pppullleaaaassee, so you will shut the fuck up!” lol!
So, I don’t put him in that horrible position anymore!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:21:11 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston – I met the bureau cheif for CBS news at the park, if thats his
correct title, but something like that, anyway, I gave him my little Ibo
speech he loved it and wants to meet after the convention. interested?<

I’M DEFINITELY INTERESTED.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Re:

Hey all. So gald I don’t have a phone tonight. Really enjoying the quite.
Had to borrow money from a load shark toady but its all good. He’s a nice
load shark but it was still so weird. But screw it, I like doing whatever I
have to do to keep this amazing summer going..  What a day! I still have yet
to take that other 5 mg/kg . I figure if it aint broke dont fix it.
Preston – I met the bureau cheif for CBS news at the park, if thats his
correct title, but something like that, anyway, I gave him my little Ibo
speech he loved it and wants to meet after the convention. interested?
Thanks again Howard. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a
reasonable alternative. The more you can taper on the Meth, the better (but
you know that already).<

As I tried to say before, V and I are in total agreement with her continuing
to dool my script out to me. That way at those times when I think, “gosh, I
am hurting/pissed off/sad/happy/alive” come over me, I have a little help
with resisting the temptation to simply take extra pills.
I can always ransack the apartment looking for my script, but she’d then
know something was up, I’d have to admit I did it, and well, I don’t wanna.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

PS: Although Subox! one works well for some, there is still a problem with
the half-life, or how long it stays in your system. I only mention this in
case you’re thinking of giving it a try. However, I believe you can take
Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those facts, I
am not a practitioner. I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned
out to you may be a reasonable alternative. The more you can taper on the
Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling ! OK by taking
about 10 Ultram a day. All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad. Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie: I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit. I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok. Although I was mainly on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first
week, or actually from the Meth, I ! can’t be sure, but I suspect both
played
a part. However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition. Guess
what? I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday). I still think it’s a valid idea; just not
one we tend to follow through with. If you could handle some Hydrocodone or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?<

Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my
pain
whatsoever
But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
(though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
somewhat by substituting weak and p! athetic poppy tea for methadone- then
anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
sucked big time.
And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really,
not
just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
enough strength to pick it up again.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26. I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that. All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t. Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed? I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me. But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] for charlie and all
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:19:20 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, this is really mainly for those on the ibogaine list, but due to
having lots of folk on the DrugWar list with knowlege and opinions, I feel I
should post this to both lists:
To begin this, I need to make a point-
I discussed my nervousness and trepidation about ibogaine and law
enforcement today over brunch with V. I am very nervous about steering
people to ibogaine treatments in the US. She is of the opinion that by doing
what I’m doing now, publicizing and discussing it personally and in print,
I’m already doing a lot towards getting ibogaine into the public
conciousness.
I do not want to get hit with steering charges. I Hate the idea. That
said, as someone, I think Mark, pointed out yesterday, it MIGHT be selfish
for me NOT to steer people towards those who are doing treatments, as others
already took a major risk in steering me to the providers (bless their
pointy heads too). In part, I agree- in another Large part I don’t,
precisely for the reasons stated above, in that I’m being and will continue
to be very open about my own using it to kick my pain killer habit and to
realign myself. I will continue to be open about what I do forever. But I
hesitate to steer people and enter into conspiracy- as the prohibitionist
maniacs will definitely look at it as me doing if they do decide to come
after those doing treatments, and I’ve directed some undercover narc to
those supplying it.
But all that said, I’m going to take a risk here, and let Charlie know
that while I don’t yet have any contact number, there is apparently someone
already doing treatments in the Portland, Oregon area, who will be there for
another week and after a short break will be back there very soonly.
So, if and when I hear more, I may very well have some number or other
that you can contact for more info. But I am very scared to do this, I don’t
mind admitting. If I don’t, who will though? So torn and confused and
nervous and scared and all that prohibition inspired crap is coursing
through me right now. I don’t want to go to jail, even for a few hours. But
I do want others to hear about treatments and to get all the info they can
about ibogaine.
Anyway, I’m kinda just sorting out my thoughts here, in public, (hi
feds), and forgot to post this hint of info earlier today when I shoulda
done so. I apologize for being a nervous Nelly, and for not having more info
for you Charlie right away- but when I do I suppose I will post it- once.
After that, I’ll have to take it on a case by case basis. I’d prefer to meet
people face to face before giving out any specific info on treatments
(especially since I don’t really have any specific info, but might down the
road), but that ain’t possible through email- anyone can come here and claim
to be a junkie/addict and elicit VERY illegal info from any of the rest of
us- which makes me very, very not happy or secure feeling.
I would very much appreciate feedback on this.
Peace and love to all, even the blue meanies,
Preston

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:04:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To Julie and Jason and Callie,

Jason gave some very good advice.  If I could give a suggestion, few doctors will write a script for dilauded or methadone since both are schedule II and you must be dying to get AND have a note from your parents.  Hey, a little humor can sometimes help.  I can not possibly read all the mail on the mindvox.  I mean like I got 127 just today.  However, if you have a vaild reason to have something like Tylenol #4 or Lortab or perks, I  have found it eaiser to detox from pills.  With dillies you are more likely to shoot the drugs and they are very hard to get from the Doc and VERY expensive to get off the street.  If your able to get a doctor to write for Lortab or codeine I would say give that a try.  However, that is eaiser said than done.  A word of caution, if you go to more than one doctor and get the same narcotic drug the pharmacist may call the one or both of the doctors and tell them that you going from doctor to doctor looking for durgs.  In some states like Florida it is against the law to do that.  It is called doctor shopping.  Twice I had a pharmacist call the doctor and say I was doctor shopping.  I even had a doctor call the other doctor.  Sometimes if you have been in a car accident or have a reason for taking a large amount of pain medication you may be better off trying a pain clinic.  However, some will try their therapy rather than write for a large amount of narcotics.  Also, you may want to check out subutex via Google.  You can get a list of doctors that prescribe suboxone.  From what I hear it is eaiser than detoxing from methadone.  There are not all that many options available.  Also, there is such a thing as ultra rapid detox where they put you to sleep then inject you with naltrexone.  I have heard good and bad about it.  Also, it is very expensive, like a few grand  or more.  If you live in Canada where it is legal you may ask on the forum who has it and how much.  I wish I could recomend someone but I don’t know any sellers.  In the United States it is illegal in any form.

Hope I helped somewhat, if you find a suplier who will ship to Canada please let me know that way I may be of help to others as well as myself.  If you do not, write me at jimhadey3 at yahoo.com.  I have heard of a person will ship to a P.O. Box in Canada.  He works it by debiting your debit or charge account in Eros.  I can not vouge for his honesty.  I therefore ask people for feedback.  Also, it is a dangerous drug to take by yourself.  I am sure you know that people can get sick and vomit and sometimes drowned in their own vomit.  And I know several people who took it and did vomit.  I know how hard it is to get off methadone.  Most everyone I know kicked methadone by using H or some of the pills I mentioned earlier.

Best of luck to ya, I may have some more information later this week from a person who went to a place called Eurthogardens (sp) or some place like that.  The person said that they would get in touch with me and let me know how things went.  However, not one person on this forum had a good thing to say about Eurthogardens(sp), just a word to the wise.  It seems it is so easy to get ripped off when dealing on the net.

Hope I helped, best of luck to ya,

– JIM

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:

Dear Julie,
I know exactly where you are comming from.
Yes methadone is a lot harder to come off,HOWEVER,the good thing about
methadone
is that it gives you the opportunity to get back to living a relativley
normal life,it keeps you away from the scene
and all it’s ugliness.I have considered what you are considering,..use for
say…three months and then by that time
the meth’would be out of my system,and then it would take only one week to
come off,rather than 6 weeks.
Believe me when I say I understand your logic,however, dear Julie,it doesn’t
work.The only way it might work
is….if you found a docter that was prepared to supply you(Orally)with say
morphine or dilauded for three months,
unfortunatley this is highly unlikley.Meth” gives us the opportunity to make
different friends that are conducive to
our recovery,get a job and put things in place that will help us to stay
away from Heroin(I almost cringe when I write the whole word Heroin)
I think the “cringe”comes from the shame of knowing heroin.

Yes Julie,it is a very long and emotionaly painful journey reducing off the
Meth”. Untill you decide which way you will detox,I would stay on the done
and keep reducing very slowly. I know I know,it’s f….d,it’s so slow,and
the shame that goes with it is sometimes to much to bear,having to go and
pick up your dose,
the clinic and all the other negatives.Sometimes we feel so stuck that we
just cry and cry and cry.Tears flow down my face as I write “cry” I know
where your at.

Life is now,it’s happening right now,even while we are on this “medicine”We
have to stop thinking of what we are going to do when we get off the done,
when we get straight,and do them now,..right now. I know it is harder whilst
on the done, as the done gives us a false sense of security and kills a lot
of our motivation,dampens our drive. As you know Julie,with each reduction
we get back a little more of ourselves,we look a little healthier,get a
little more motivated.
I have found that what you eat whilst reducing makes a massive
difference,yes “MASSIVE”,and drinking a lot of water.We have all heard this
before,
but you know what, it is so very powerfully true.

I suggest stay on the done for now,reduce very slowly, live life now and
start doing the things you dream of doing when you are off the done,and
then, when
you are ready, do the Ibogaine treatment.I have not done the treatment as
yet but plan to,I just don’t know where to go to do it,the Panamas sound
ideal
but the warranted expence puts it out of reach

I understand your frustration,your anguish and your sadness,you are not
alone there are many of us in the same boat,I myself sometimes find it
almost to much to bear and just feel like going home to join my
mother,father and brother in heaven,I am sure the thought of going back home
has entered many of our minds.
We hang in there.Society cannot understand,which makes it harder,most
doctors don’t understand,it’s a sickness and because you are on the done,you
are getting better and you will be cured soon.Don’t be in a hurry,a mistake
I have made many times.If you come off done to quick it brings to much to
the surface to quickly.
Although at the time of being on a comfortable dose of done,the thought of
using and the scene almost disgusts us,and we think we know that there is no
way we will use again.If you come off to quick you have a very high risk of
using again.I would suggest 10% of your dose every three weeks,even this is
quick.

As you know when you have a reduction you normally feel it (a little)for
about 10 days,so to come down every two weeks IMO does not give your
emotions, mind and body enough of a rest between reductions.This is why I
say every three weeks,so you have a little rest in between.

May the angels of light guide you to freedom,health and all you choose
for you highest good.
With understanding and smiles Jasen (Aus) 🙂

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

> Hi Callie,
>
> I’m 26. I have used opiates for about four years, and
> all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
> years before that. All I know, is that H was way
> easier to kick than this sh*t. Sure, it was a bit
> more painful, but so much shorter!
>
> Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> without spending a month in bed? I don’t crave H
> anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me. But I’ve
> heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
> addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
> long in your body.
>
> I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
> starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
> the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
> do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.
>
> Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 10:48:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello list,
Can anyone please tell me how I change my log in name?
I don’t like the idea of having my real name on the list as it is an unusual
name.
Thankyou. Jasen(AUS)

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 10:20:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

Thanks for the reminder about being kind and loving to oneself.  Fear really can be a killer, and I agree that it is a great driver of addiction.  One thing I have allowed myself is the right to smoke weed if I like.  I used to demand total abstinence of myself, then when I smoked a doob or had a drink, I failed, and was now had license to hit the glass stem with a fury.

My goal is no crack. Period.  I don’t like heroin alone enough I decided that it calls to me like the crack. I have become involved with NJ Indy media, I marched today, may come back Thursday night for a rally.  I am going to work every day.

Yes, thanks for the reminder!

Pax,
Sean

From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Re:oops! [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 10:14:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

I hope you didn’t think that paragraph was meant for you; I was giving Julie
some input on her dilemma. I can tell you’re in a pretty squared away
situation …… if you try to mess up, you’ve got V there to kick the
wholly living shit out of you ; =  )
This is for you though: You sound like you have a great life, that’s just
going to get better … as long as you keep up the good work!
Peace and love back at you and all who matter to you,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a
reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on the Meth, the better
(but
you know that already).<

As I tried to say before, V and I are in total agreement with her
continuing
to dool my script out to me. That way at those times when I think, “gosh,
I
am hurting/pissed off/sad/happy/alive” come over me, I have a little help
with resisting the temptation to simply take extra pills.
I can always ransack the apartment looking for my script, but she’d
then
know something was up, I’d have to admit I did it, and well, I don’t
wanna.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

PS:  Although Suboxone works well for some, there is still a problem with
the half-life, or how long it stays in your system.  I only mention this
in
case you’re thinking of giving it a try.  However, I believe you can take
Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those facts,
I
am not a practitioner.  I still think having MS Contin (Morphine)
portioned
out to you may be a reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on the
Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by taking
about 10 Ultram a day.  All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad.   Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie:  I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an
8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit.  I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok.  Although I was mainly on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would
wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a
very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first
week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both
played
a part.  However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump
from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition.  Guess
what?  I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday).  I still think it’s a valid idea; just
not
one we tend to follow through with.  If you could handle some Hydrocodone
or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?<

Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final
kicking
stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a
few
months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my
pain
whatsoever
But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while
kicking
(though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and
useless
when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind
I
began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot
while
kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
sucked big time.
And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really,
not
just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
enough strength to pick it up again.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 10:04:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marc,

To be really honest I have had crack thoughts since one week after treatment.  The amazing difference is I don’t act on them.  I can think them through.  First time in twenty years that crack seems really unappealing to me.

So I agree that last night was a great turning point for you.  You thought about it, even had a plan, but you stopped yourself.  That is a great blessing isn’t it.  Not to be robotically controlled by the drug.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:59:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marc,

Really glad you didn’t pick up.  And as for the pot, I come form the harm reduction approach.  It sure is better than if you had done H.  If it makes you wanna get dope more though, I guess that could be an issue.  But the weed in of itself is not a slip in my book.

I find the going getting harder as the days go by myself.  Helping others like you are is a proven way to stay clean.  I really think that is the path I need to be on.

Anyway, did the big march in the city today.  Never could have done it if I smoked crack the night before.  Retuning to my activism is really one of the first gifts of having done ibo believe.  There is such a big world out there beyond me.:)  When I was using crack it was only about me and the next blast, and the dope to come down with.

Thanks,
Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Cock’s Liquors JULIE
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:53:26 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julie,
I also ran an importing business whilst on the done. I was importing products from Indonesia and into Australia.
At the time I was reducing very slowly and all was fine.I found when I ate well and drank a lot of water and excersised(walking) I was fine.
When I ate crap and didn’t excersise my mind was all blocked up and I couldn;t think straight.

Go for it girl.                                   Smiles Jasen (AUS)

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:50:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/2004 5:03:20 PM Central Daylight Time, dave@phantom.com writes:
> Not Oxy’s Mark, which I think (could be mistaken) are codeine based

Oxy’s contain oxycodone – which is a synthetic… not codeine.
oxycodone is what is in percodan.

there are quick release oxycodone tablets and there are time release
oxycontin tablets.

You are absolutely correct Dave!
You have to watch these online pharmacies also. They will sell what they call hydrocodone (Lortab, Vicodin) or oxycodone (Percocet, Oxycontin) and when you get it you realize it is Codeine, which you can buy otc now in cough syrup. It is nasty tasting cough syrup too!
In the 80’s when I would be totally out of dope and could feel those withdrawal pains on my heels, I would by Terpin Hydrate with codeine at neighborhood pharmacy. The thought of it now gives me the heebie, jeebies! UUUUGGGGHHHH!!
Callie

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:45:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Shelly,

It takes courage to share the good and the bad.  Hope you keep posting.

Sean

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:43:20 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julie,
I know exactly where you are comming from.
Yes methadone is a lot harder to come off,HOWEVER,the good thing about
methadone
is that it gives you the opportunity to get back to living a relativley
normal life,it keeps you away from the scene
and all it’s ugliness.I have considered what you are considering,..use for
say…three months and then by that time
the meth’would be out of my system,and then it would take only one week to
come off,rather than 6 weeks.
Believe me when I say I understand your logic,however, dear Julie,it doesn’t
work.The only way it might work
is….if you found a docter that was prepared to supply you(Orally)with say
morphine or dilauded for three months,
unfortunatley this is highly unlikley.Meth” gives us the opportunity to make
different friends that are conducive to
our recovery,get a job and put things in place that will help us to stay
away from Heroin(I almost cringe when I write the whole word Heroin)
I think the “cringe”comes from the shame of knowing heroin.

Yes Julie,it is a very long and emotionaly painful journey reducing off the
Meth”. Untill you decide which way you will detox,I would stay on the done
and keep reducing very slowly. I know I know,it’s f….d,it’s so slow,and
the shame that goes with it is sometimes to much to bear,having to go and
pick up your dose,
the clinic and all the other negatives.Sometimes we feel so stuck that we
just cry and cry and cry.Tears flow down my face as I write “cry” I know
where your at.

Life is now,it’s happening right now,even while we are on this “medicine”We
have to stop thinking of what we are going to do when we get off the done,
when we get straight,and do them now,..right now. I know it is harder whilst
on the done, as the done gives us a false sense of security and kills a lot
of our motivation,dampens our drive. As you know Julie,with each reduction
we get back a little more of ourselves,we look a little healthier,get a
little more motivated.
I have found that what you eat whilst reducing makes a massive
difference,yes “MASSIVE”,and drinking a lot of water.We have all heard this
before,
but you know what, it is so very powerfully true.

I suggest stay on the done for now,reduce very slowly, live life now and
start doing the things you dream of doing when you are off the done,and
then, when
you are ready, do the Ibogaine treatment.I have not done the treatment as
yet but plan to,I just don’t know where to go to do it,the Panamas sound
ideal
but the warranted expence puts it out of reach

I understand your frustration,your anguish and your sadness,you are not
alone there are many of us in the same boat,I myself sometimes find it
almost to much to bear and just feel like going home to join my
mother,father and brother in heaven,I am sure the thought of going back home
has entered many of our minds.
We hang in there.Society cannot understand,which makes it harder,most
doctors don’t understand,it’s a sickness and because you are on the done,you
are getting better and you will be cured soon.Don’t be in a hurry,a mistake
I have made many times.If you come off done to quick it brings to much to
the surface to quickly.
Although at the time of being on a comfortable dose of done,the thought of
using and the scene almost disgusts us,and we think we know that there is no
way we will use again.If you come off to quick you have a very high risk of
using again.I would suggest 10% of your dose every three weeks,even this is
quick.

As you know when you have a reduction you normally feel it (a little)for
about 10 days,so to come down every two weeks IMO does not give your
emotions, mind and body enough of a rest between reductions.This is why I
say every three weeks,so you have a little rest in between.

May the angels of light guide you to freedom,health and all you choose
for you highest good.
With understanding and smiles Jasen (Aus) 🙂

Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H- Charlie
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:39:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/2004 7:56:21 PM Central Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
My
boyfriend would be holding my meds, so no f*ck ups.

That has never worked for me! It only caused a few arguments, a couple of fights and him telling me, as he throws all the meds to me, “Take all of them….pppullleaaaassee, so you will shut the fuck up!” lol!
So, I don’t put him in that horrible position anymore!
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 9:21:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all. So gald I don’t have a phone tonight. Really enjoying the quite. Had to borrow money from a load shark toady but its all good. He’s a nice load shark but it was still so weird. But screw it, I like doing whatever I have to do to keep this amazing summer going..  What a day! I still have yet to take that other 5 mg/kg . I figure if it aint broke dont fix it. Preston – I met the bureau cheif for CBS news at the park, if thats his correct title, but something like that, anyway, I gave him my little Ibo speech he loved it and wants to meet after the convention. interested?
Thanks again Howard. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a
reasonable alternative. The more you can taper on the Meth, the better (but
you know that already).<

As I tried to say before, V and I are in total agreement with her continuing
to dool my script out to me. That way at those times when I think, “gosh, I
am hurting/pissed off/sad/happy/alive” come over me, I have a little help
with resisting the temptation to simply take extra pills.
I can always ransack the apartment looking for my script, but she’d then
know something was up, I’d have to admit I did it, and well, I don’t wanna.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

PS: Although Suboxone works well for some, there is still a problem with
the half-life, or how long it stays in your system. I only mention this in
case you’re thinking of giving it a try. However, I believe you can take
Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those facts, I
am not a practitioner. I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned
out to you may be a reasonable alternative. The more you can taper on the
Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by taking
about 10 Ultram a day. All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad. Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie: I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit. I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok. Although I was mainly on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first
week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both played
a part. However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition. Guess
what? I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday). I still think it’s a valid idea; just not
one we tend to follow through with. If you could handle some Hydrocodone or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

> Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> without spending a month in bed?<
>
> Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
> stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
> months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my
pain
> whatsoever
> But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
> (though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
> when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
> began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
> say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
> somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
> anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
> kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
> sucked big time.
> And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really,
not
> just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
> I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
> enough strength to pick it up again.
> Peace and love all,
> Preston
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Ms Iboga”
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
>
>
> > Hi Callie,
> >
> > I’m 26. I have used opiates for about four years, and
> > all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
> > years before that. All I know, is that H was way
> > easier to kick than this sh*t. Sure, it was a bit
> > more painful, but so much shorter!
> >
> > Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> > without spending a month in bed? I don’t crave H
> > anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me. But I’ve
> > heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
> > addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
> > long in your body.
> >
> > I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
> > starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
> > the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
> > do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
> >
> >
> >
>
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> >
>
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
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[%]
>
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>
>
>

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Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:57:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a
reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on the Meth, the better (but
you know that already).<

As I tried to say before, V and I are in total agreement with her continuing
to dool my script out to me. That way at those times when I think, “gosh, I
am hurting/pissed off/sad/happy/alive” come over me, I have a little help
with resisting the temptation to simply take extra pills.
I can always ransack the apartment looking for my script, but she’d then
know something was up, I’d have to admit I did it, and well, I don’t wanna.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 8:03 PM
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

PS:  Although Suboxone works well for some, there is still a problem with
the half-life, or how long it stays in your system.  I only mention this in
case you’re thinking of giving it a try.  However, I believe you can take
Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those facts, I
am not a practitioner.  I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned
out to you may be a reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on the
Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by taking
about 10 Ultram a day.  All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad.   Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie:  I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit.  I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok.  Although I was mainly on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first
week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both played
a part.  However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition.  Guess
what?  I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday).  I still think it’s a valid idea; just not
one we tend to follow through with.  If you could handle some Hydrocodone or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?<

Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my
pain
whatsoever
But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
(though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
sucked big time.
And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really,
not
just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
enough strength to pick it up again.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H- Charlie
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:55:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Charlie,

I think what you have given is very good advice.  I
know the temptation to use even a little extra of the
H would probably be very strong.  And in reality,
maybe I might just be making excuses subconsciously to
get my hands on a little of the sweet stuff- you know,
the final hurrah before the kick.

I was thinking of maybe doing the Thomas recipe, with
a 10 or 20mg morphine pill at night to get some sleep.
After about 2 weeks, I would do another Ibo detox,
and hopefully be able to successfully jump off.  My
boyfriend would be holding my meds, so no f*ck ups.

Thanks Charlie, for the great advice!  I love this
list…

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:52:54 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you could handle some Hydrocodone or Morphine, AND have someone who can
dole them out to you, I think you’d be much better served.<

Hate to say it, but I think the fact I’ve got V to help me probably has made
my drastic cutting and staying cut to way low levels has helped me a lot-
well, I don’t really hate to say it but I do hate to admit that I need help-
a common problem in me, in that I hate admitting I need anything especially
help with anything.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks
before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by taking
about 10 Ultram a day.  All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of
hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5
more weeks of feeling almost as bad.   Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then,
what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie:  I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 –
12, 80mg Oxy a day habit.  I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was
not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok.  Although I was mainly on
Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake
up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR
(Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a
little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very
rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first
week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both played
a part.  However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight
from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from
Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s
and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition.  Guess
what?  I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering
until Tuesday (at least Monday).  I still think it’s a valid idea; just not
one we tend to follow through with.  If you could handle some Hydrocodone or
Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be
much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?<

Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my
pain
whatsoever
But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
(though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t
honestly
say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
sucked big time.
And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really,
not
just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very
difficult-
I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
enough strength to pick it up again.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Sorry to disagree
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:33:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry, but that statement strikes me as a lot of male dominance directed
crap.  Women being more sensitive to ibogaine by exhibiting higher plasma
levels
if that is the case, does not ibogaine gender infuse.  That being said, I
would
not at all mind discussion in dispute of my position.<

Not being either a woman nor a provider, I can’t answer your question, such
as it is Howard. I myself didn’t feel any such masculine “energetic” from
ibogaine, but then, it was an interview and that’s the answer I got. I’d be
happy to discuss it further here, only I don’t really have an answer nor a
view on this topic really.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:11 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Sorry to disagree

I think the work being done by ibogaine providers is important but, am
compelled to respond to a quote from Preston’s interview.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

“FM- Yeah, women seem to be more susceptible to the masculine energetic of
this plant. ”

Sorry, but that statement strikes me as a lot of male dominance directed
crap.  Women being more sensitive to ibogaine by exhibiting higher plasma
levels
if that is the case, does not ibogaine gender infuse.  That being said, I
would
not at all mind discussion in dispute of my position.

Howard

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From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: PS: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:03:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

PS:  Although Suboxone works well for some, there is still a problem with the half-life, or how long it stays in your system.  I only mention this in case you’re thinking of giving it a try.  However, I believe you can take Ibogaine, five days after stopping the Sub, but please verify those facts, I am not a practitioner.  I still think having MS Contin (Morphine) portioned out to you may be a reasonable alternative.  The more you can taper on the Meth, the better (but you know that already).
Hang in there,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by taking about 10 Ultram a day.  All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5 more weeks of feeling almost as bad.   Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then, what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie:  I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 – 12, 80mg Oxy a day habit.  I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok.  Although I was mainly on Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR (Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both played a part.  However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition.  Guess what?  I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering until Tuesday (at least Monday).  I still think it’s a valid idea; just not one we tend to follow through with.  If you could handle some Hydrocodone or Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

> Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> without spending a month in bed?<
>
> Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
> stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
> months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my pain
> whatsoever
>     But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
> (though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
> when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
> began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t honestly
> say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
> somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
> anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
> kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
> sucked big time.
>     And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really, not
> just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very difficult-
> I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
> enough strength to pick it up again.
> Peace and love all,
> Preston
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
>
>
> > Hi Callie,
> >
> > I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
> > all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
> > years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
> > easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
> > more painful, but so much shorter!
> >
> > Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> > without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
> > anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
> > heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
> > addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
> > long in your body.
> >
> > I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
> > starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
> > the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
> > do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 7:36:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ROFL;
Very reminiscent of when I kicked a 50-60 Perkoset habit, about 6 weeks before I got out of college, and tried keeping myself feeling OK by taking about 10 Ultram a day.  All I did was drag it out from the week (apx) of hell, had I just gone “cold turkey”, into a week of hell, followed by 4-5 more weeks of feeling almost as bad.   Ahhhhh …. If I’d only known then, what I know now ….. well, you all know the story.

Julie:  I had similar thoughts a few months ago, when I jumped off of an 8 – 12, 80mg Oxy a day habit.  I even had a pharmacist agree with me, but was not able to give me anything without a Dr.’s ok.  Although I was mainly on Oxycontin, I had been taking Methadone at night for a while, so I would wake up feeling a little less dead.

Anyway, the thought (of a few of us) was to give me some Oxycodone IR (Instant Release), for a couple of weeks, so the Methadone would have a little time to leave my body, before switching to Suboxone, which was a very rough transition for me, whether from my Dr. under RX’ing me for the first week, or actually from the Meth, I can’t be sure, but I suspect both played a part.  However, I did not have it as rough as those that jumped straight from a full dose of Methadone to Suboxone.

The switching drugs is a great idea in theory, but I just made the jump from Oxycontin to Suboxone, just about a week ago and had a couple extra Oxy’s and some of the Oxy IR, so I could go through an easier transition.  Guess what?  I polished it all off, Sunday night, when I had planned on tapering until Tuesday (at least Monday).  I still think it’s a valid idea; just not one we tend to follow through with.  If you could handle some Hydrocodone or Morphine, AND have someone who can dole them out to you, I think you’d be much better served.
My best wishes are with you,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 8:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

> Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> without spending a month in bed?<
>
> Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
> stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
> months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my pain
> whatsoever
>     But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
> (though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
> when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
> began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t honestly
> say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
> somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
> anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
> kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
> sucked big time.
>     And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really, not
> just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very difficult-
> I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
> enough strength to pick it up again.
> Peace and love all,
> Preston
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
> To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
>
>
> > Hi Callie,
> >
> > I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
> > all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
> > years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
> > easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
> > more painful, but so much shorter!
> >
> > Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
> > without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
> > anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
> > heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
> > addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
> > long in your body.
> >
> > I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
> > starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
> > the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
> > do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.
> >
> > Julie
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush
> >
> >
> >
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
> >
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
> >
> >
>
>
>
>   /]=———————————————————————=[\
>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
>   \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 6:03:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Sunday, August 29, 2004, at 07:38 AM, Preston Peet wrote:

Not Oxy’s Mark, which I think (could be mistaken) are codeine based

Oxy’s contain oxycodone – which is a synthetic… not codeine. oxycodone is what is in percodan.

there are quick release oxycodone tablets and there are time release oxycontin tablets.

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 5:32:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Funny. I’ll be downtown later.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
you know what. as much as I LOVE the idea of 150,000 people going somewhere
the city said they can’t go, I do not need to add my spirit there. I don’t
want that energy right now- it’s just a little too much for me at this time.
Plus, that’s a lot of people and this is an island- I wouldn’t want to
be the one to put the balance off kilter and tip Manhattan over by being
that “one too many” person. V and I will stay here in LES to help maintain
Manhattan’s balance.
;-)))
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:33 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:

Preston, headin to the park with the other 150,000 or so people who are not
supposed to be there. Shit for that reason alone you’d think you’d jump on
the train. Enjoy your breakfast and I’ll call you later.

mcorcoran wrote:
Thanks Howard and I’ll say it again no one else got though and made me a
believer like you were able to. You played a bigger role than you’ll ever
know in saving me.
As for med school, I think I might have mentioned my dad was a doctor and I
watched medicine dishearten, depress, and eventually to some degree, kill my
dad. My experience has been that MOST doctors who go into medicine with the
intention of helping people and not make themselves and drug companies rich
very often become casualties to that kind of thing. My dad said on his death
bed that if he had it to do all over again he would have loved to have done
something like teach English Lit and would have never gone near medicine.
So who knows maybe in some cases the second generation does get it right but
to answer your question. I am too into helping people these days to ever
consider being a doctor. ;o)
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:40:55 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Thanks, that makes me feel really good that you would say that, but I do
not know nearly as much as you do when it comes this. I do however have as
pretty good sense when it comes to ibogaine and my body now but I’m still
very
confused sometimes when it comes to side affects of Ibogaine vs. residual
withdrawal… and weighing the positives and negatives… I still feel like
everything is an experiment.
Its strange, I feel like I have a much better sense of this kinda thing when
it comes to others than I do myself. Who knows. Maybe its better to keep it
as
simple as possible. If we are fortunate enough to have a booster then bite
the bullet and take the booster. >>

Love you Mark,

Life is an experiment. Let me know when you have the results?

Have fun. Too bad I’m not licensed to practice medicine. How about you.
Medical school a possibility? I think residual withdrawal and life are
indistinguishable.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 5:29:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They are now estimating that upwards of 500,000 people took to the street today in NYC to protest the bush administration and hopefully take there country back. Its a good day to be a New Yorker and an even better day to be an American and its been a long time since I’ve been able to say either of those things. The march ended in Union Sq. but everyone took to Central Park and they are all still arriving now.  I just overheard the police talking and they said that they were going to wait for the softball games to end because they have permits and then they are going to go in. Then a captain said no one moves until someone crosses the line but the first time they do “pounce”. Our tax dollars at work. But every media conglomerate from all over the world is there so I doubt they’ll be any pouncing going on with the rest of the world watching but it is the NYPD. It would be very worthwhile for any Manhattanite to head to the Great Lawn… really uplifting in a time in America when I wasn’t even sure if that kind of feeling was possible.
Preston and Dana you really should head up here.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 1:34:16 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Preston, headin to the park with the other 150,000 or so people who are
not supposed to be there. Shit for that reason alone you’d think you’d jump on
the train. Enjoy your breakfast and I’ll call you later. >>

Ah to be young again! Well, on the other hand I am uncertain how good an
idea that is. All things in their time. I will probably head to Silver Lake
Park on Staten Island for a walk around the reservoir…getting ready for a
stress test and want to be able to make it through the test.

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 5:21:31 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave and Howard and anyone else out there with significant clean
time…..how did you not use when all that old stuff showed back  up? >>

Fear of using and something to do.  A purpose to have.  A quest to follow.
Something to do and more something to do that gives a sense of accomplishment
and pleasure.

yes, activities to keep you focused, and a support network, someone who’s been there/done that and ain’t doin it no-more to confide in is a big plus.

I don’t like to say “I’m afraid of using”, fear sucks and I have found it a poor basis for inspiration.

finding a real feeling of love for life works better, in my opinion.

hobbies are great.

for me, post ibo i had to rely on NA meetings after “slipping” (—well, there wasn’t a banana peel, i planned it), but truth be told, in retrospect what really helped me was riding a bike. I would squirrely and jump on my bike and ride till the feeling passed (which was generally after about 30 minutes of pedaling when the endorphins were really flowing)… thus:: _.excercise and where I lived, wide open spaces of ~nature~.

counseling helped too, if you can find a cool/affordable counselor. Meetings are free, and well, if nothing else they bring about a network of people not using. The steps are pretty cool guidelines, I guess my “NA” view bolied the steps down to 2 basic things: Don’t be an asshole and do things differently… which is actualy just: “do things differently” because I had been such an asshole and everything I knew about dealing with life ended up as dope in my bloodstream… I had to become highly open to new ideas and ways of coping. After about 4-5 years I burned out on meetings and haven’t been in a long time. My path & the NA path stopped resonating so I moved on to ‘other stuff’ which works for me.

_.dh

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Sorry to disagree
Date: August 29, 2004 at 5:11:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think the work being done by ibogaine providers is important but, am
compelled to respond to a quote from Preston’s interview.

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

“FM- Yeah, women seem to be more susceptible to the masculine energetic of
this plant. ”

Sorry, but that statement strikes me as a lot of male dominance directed
crap.  Women being more sensitive to ibogaine by exhibiting higher plasma levels
if that is the case, does not ibogaine gender infuse.  That being said, I would
not at all mind discussion in dispute of my position.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 4:19:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you know what. as much as I LOVE the idea of 150,000 people going somewhere
the city said they can’t go, I do not need to add my spirit there. I don’t
want that energy right now- it’s just a little too much for me at this time.
Plus, that’s a lot of people and this is an island- I wouldn’t want to
be the one to put the balance off kilter and tip Manhattan over by being
that “one too many” person. V and I will stay here in LES to help maintain
Manhattan’s balance.
;-)))
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:33 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:

Preston, headin to the park with the other 150,000 or so people who are not
supposed to be there. Shit for that reason alone you’d think you’d jump on
the train. Enjoy your breakfast and I’ll call you later.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks Howard and I’ll say it again no one else got though and made me a
believer like you were able to. You played a bigger role than you’ll ever
know in saving me.
As for med school, I think I might have mentioned my dad was a doctor and I
watched medicine dishearten, depress, and eventually to some degree, kill my
dad.  My experience has been that MOST doctors who go into medicine with the
intention of helping people and not make themselves and drug companies rich
very often become casualties to that kind of thing. My dad said on his death
bed that if he had it to do all over again he would have loved to have done
something like teach English Lit and would have never gone near medicine.
So who knows maybe in some cases the second generation does get it right but
to answer your question. I am too into helping people these days to ever
consider being a doctor. ;o)
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:40:55 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Thanks, that makes me feel really good that you would say that, but I do
not know nearly as much as you do when it comes this. I do however have as
pretty good sense when it comes to ibogaine and my body now but I’m still
very
confused sometimes when it comes to side affects of Ibogaine vs. residual
withdrawal… and weighing the positives and negatives… I still feel like
everything is an experiment.
Its strange, I feel like I have a much better sense of this kinda thing when
it comes to others than I do myself. Who knows. Maybe its better to keep it
as
simple as possible. If we are fortunate enough to have a booster then bite
the bullet and take the booster. >>

Love you Mark,

Life is an experiment. Let me know when you have the results?

Have fun. Too bad I’m not licensed to practice medicine. How about you.
Medical school a possibility? I think residual withdrawal and life are
indistinguishable.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julie
Date: August 29, 2004 at 3:07:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,

I don’t think buprenorphine is legal in Canada, but
will definitely talk to my doctor on Wednesday…

Thanks for all the great advice.  You rock!!

Julie  🙂

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] antibacterial/well being – was Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat
Date: August 29, 2004 at 3:06:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

Yes, after feeling pretty weak and sh*tty for a couple
of weeks, I think my body is starting to readjust.  I
finally purged my body of the constant nagging
constipation that we opiate users know too well.

I am pretty happy about being able to reduce my meth
dosage too(35ml to 20ml); I just wanted to be free of
it completely.  I would definitely do Ibogaine again,
but this time in a proper therapeutic setting.

Hannah: I don’t think Buprenorphine is legal here in
Canada, but I will look into it.  Thanks for the tip!

Julie

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julie
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:50:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 1:41:20 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

<< If you want an easier method of detox than methadone maybe it’d be a good
idea to look into Buprenorphine (suboxone or Subutex) as I’ve heard that the
change over isn’t too bad and then you can do a quicker taper with that.  I
think it’d be better than going back to H anyway.  Google it!  Hope it helps! >>

Hey that is right Juliie and you are down to 20mg/day/methadone that is
considered a perfect crossover.  Your call.  Is buprenorphine as popular in canada
as it is in the states?

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] antibacterial/well being – was Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:47:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:58:59 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

<< I totally agree with you- after using Ibogaine about
2.5 weeks ago, I have not been able to eat ANY meat at
all.  Maybe the digestive enzymes aren’t being
produced, due to the Iboga.

I’m not complaining, though…I feel much lighter, and
my system really flushed itself out.  My skin also
looks better. >>

Dear Julie,

Ibogaine has been shown in scientific papers to act as an antibacterial.
I’ve seen people dosed in ibogaine have open infected wounds from IV injecting
heal very quickly.  Am I reading it into your messages or are you beginning to
feel better as you put some distance between you and the ibogaine
administration?

Howard

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julie
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:44:42 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you want an easier method of detox than methadone maybe it’d be a good idea to look into Buprenorphine (suboxone or Subutex) as I’ve heard that the change over isn’t too bad and then you can do a quicker taper with that.  I think it’d be better than going back to H anyway.  Google it!  Hope it helps!
lol Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 6:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Julie

Just reread my post and it comes across as smart ass and I do not want you to think I am being a smart ass.
I just really think you are messing up if you go back to heroin.
I have been an addict for 25 plus years, a full blown junkie addict for at least 25 of those years. It is experience talking. I really can’t see any reason for anyone to use heroin, especially if they have Methadone. You will be much better off slowly detoxing from Methadone. If you don’t  have time or money for slow detox you should probably try to be admitted to hospital or treatment for detox.
Heroin is bad news. Methadone was invented to get folks off heroin not the other way around.
There have been several posts discussing this the past few days. Go back and reread them if you can. If you have deleted them I will be happy to resend them to you.
I really hope you will change your mind and consider other options,
hugs to you!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:38:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 1:34:16 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Preston, headin to the park with the other 150,000 or so people who are
not supposed to be there. Shit for that reason alone you’d think you’d jump on
the train. Enjoy your breakfast and I’ll call you later.  >>

Ah to be young again!  Well, on the other hand I am uncertain how good an
idea that is.  All things in their time.  I will probably head to Silver Lake
Park on Staten Island for a walk around the reservoir…getting ready for a
stress test and want to be able to make it through the test.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:33:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, headin to the park with the other 150,000 or so people who are not supposed to be there. Shit for that reason alone you’d think you’d jump on the train. Enjoy your breakfast and I’ll call you later.

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks Howard and I’ll say it again no one else got though and made me a believer like you were able to. You played a bigger role than you’ll ever know in saving me.
As for med school, I think I might have mentioned my dad was a doctor and I watched medicine dishearten, depress, and eventually to some degree, kill my dad.  My experience has been that MOST doctors who go into medicine with the intention of helping people and not make themselves and drug companies rich very often become casualties to that kind of thing. My dad said on his death bed that if he had it to do all over again he would have loved to have done something like teach English Lit and would have never gone near medicine.
So who knows maybe in some cases the second generation does get it right but to answer your question. I am too into helping people these days to ever consider being a doctor. ;o)
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:40:55 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Thanks, that makes me feel really good that you would say that, but I do
not know nearly as much as you do when it comes this. I do however have as
pretty good sense when it comes to ibogaine and my body now but I’m still very
confused sometimes when it comes to side affects of Ibogaine vs. residual
withdrawal… and weighing the positives and negatives… I still feel like
everything is an experiment.
Its strange, I feel like I have a much better sense of this kinda thing when
it comes to others than I do myself. Who knows. Maybe its better to keep it as
simple as possible. If we are fortunate enough to have a booster then bite
the bullet and take the booster. >>

Love you Mark,

Life is an experiment. Let me know when you have the results?

Have fun. Too bad I’m not licensed to practice medicine. How about you.
Medical school a possibility? I think residual withdrawal and life are
indistinguishable.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:25:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard and I’ll say it again no one else got though and made me a believer like you were able to. You played a bigger role than you’ll ever know in saving me.
As for med school, I think I might have mentioned my dad was a doctor and I watched medicine dishearten, depress, and eventually to some degree, kill my dad.  My experience has been that MOST doctors who go into medicine with the intention of helping people and not make themselves and drug companies rich very often become casualties to that kind of thing. My dad said on his death bed that if he had it to do all over again he would have loved to have done something like teach English Lit and would have never gone near medicine.
So who knows maybe in some cases the second generation does get it right but to answer your question. I am too into helping people these days to ever consider being a doctor. ;o)
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:40:55 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Thanks, that makes me feel really good that you would say that, but I do
not know nearly as much as you do when it comes this. I do however have as
pretty good sense when it comes to ibogaine and my body now but I’m still very
confused sometimes when it comes to side affects of Ibogaine vs. residual
withdrawal… and weighing the positives and negatives… I still feel like
everything is an experiment.
Its strange, I feel like I have a much better sense of this kinda thing when
it comes to others than I do myself. Who knows. Maybe its better to keep it as
simple as possible. If we are fortunate enough to have a booster then bite
the bullet and take the booster. >>

Love you Mark,

Life is an experiment. Let me know when you have the results?

Have fun. Too bad I’m not licensed to practice medicine. How about you.
Medical school a possibility? I think residual withdrawal and life are
indistinguishable.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:12:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:40:55 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Thanks, that makes me feel really good that you would say that, but I do
not know nearly as much as you do when it comes this. I do however have as
pretty good sense when it comes to ibogaine and my body now but I’m still very
confused sometimes when it comes to side affects of Ibogaine vs. residual
withdrawal… and weighing the positives and negatives… I still feel like
everything is an experiment.
Its strange, I feel like I have a much better sense of this kinda thing when
it comes to others than I do myself. Who knows. Maybe its better to keep it as
simple as possible. If we are fortunate enough to have a booster then bite
the bullet and take the booster.  >>

Love you Mark,

Life is an experiment.  Let me know when you have the results?

Have fun.  Too bad I’m not licensed to practice medicine.  How about you.
Medical school a possibility?  I think residual withdrawal and life are
indistinguishable.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Euphoria is a killer!
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:10:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie,

On the contrary, I think what you did was very noble
and unselfish.  I can honestly say that if my dad was
in a similar situation, I would do exactly the same
for him.

Look how positively you effected his life in a manner
of 24 hours?  Sure, it is drug related, but in his
situation, certain provisions must be made…

Good luck,
Julie

_______________________________
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:10:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>A pain patient that was taking 500 60 mil Oxys every two weeks comes back
in to the pain management clinic a week later and needs a 1/4 or even less
of what he was taking before.<

Not Oxy’s Mark, which I think (could be mistaken) are codeine based- whereas
I was shooting about 400 dilaudids every 3 weeks and eating about 45
MS-Contins (morphine based- and at 60 milligrams not the 30 I’ve been
quoting I realized yesterday reading my bottle-silly me) during the same
time frame.
So in one regard you’re correct that it seems a pretty big huge
breakthrough to have so drastically reduced my intake.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine

Thats a tremendous opportunity. An approch that can’t be minimized or
written off. A pain patient that was taking 500 60 mil Oxys every two weeks
comes back in to the pain management clinic a week later and needs a 1/4 or
even less of what he was taking before. How can that be anything but a huge
medical breakthrough? Why is the medical field so uninformed when it comes
to something so profound? Wait, I think I know the answer to that one.

Preston Peet wrote:
>I think that one of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
groups. And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.<

Yeah, I agree, being a pain patient and all.
I can’t wait to hand my doc that cool book about ibogaine- both he and the
assistant doc were blown away, very obviously, that I was not only asking
for but basically demanding that my dose be lowered- and they were more than
happy to do so for me. They were very weirded out too I could tell, in that
I was admiting to having taken a very illegal drug they’d never heard of,
one that obviously works, at least for me anyway.
So it’s going to be a real treat to hand them that book about ibogaine.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine

>
> In a message dated 8/28/04 11:56:57 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
>
> >P.S. Howard, I have a question. I am sure you have thought about this
> >approach but the lack of incentive due to small profits from Ibogaine use
> >could be offset by it’s use with opiates in chronic pain management
cases.
> Of course
> >I am referring to pretty small amounts but if IBO undoes ‘addiction’ and
also
> >lowers one’s tolerance to opiates, couldn’t it be touted as a useful
> supplement
> >when administered with opiate medication? It would keep the patient’s
need
> >for increasing dosages to a minimum and would (could?)prevent addiction!
What
> >do you think?
>
> Julian,
>
> Ibogaine ability to potentiate opiate analgesia was one of the earliest
> discoveries in the modern ibogaine period. jurg Schneider, a Ciba
pharmacologist
> who went on to become the President of Dupont’s biochemicals division
made the
> discovery in the 1950s.
>
> Pharmaceutical companies do not want to develop molecules found in nature
and
> for whatever reason, they apparently don’t want to develop any of the
iboga
> alkaloids that may have a potential to effect drug dependence. If iboga
> alkaloids were out there to be used as an adjunct to pain management you
can bet
> your bottom dollar there would be off label uses galore. I think that one
of the
> area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
> treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
> groups. And that has to be don! e be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.
> On my part I will initiate contact with pain management organizations for
> political actions issues but, I’m simply not going to be among the front
line
> troops dosing patients: Been there, done that.
>
> For those of you who cannot get to the Harm Reduction Conference in New
> Orleans in November, I will have my presentation up on the Ibogaine
Dossier and I
> think that will give you some understanding of the historical precedents
that
> have already been established for movements of this kind: Those offering
> freedom rather than slavery and self determination rather than blind
obedience. You
> are so right Julian. The questions is how do we make it so.
>
> Howard
>
>
>
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:09:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Florida jail sucks. I got locked up in Palm Beach. Made Rikers look like cub med. Club med “on the keep” anyway.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>But who knows maybe I’m totally wrong and irresponsible but one thing is
for sure if someone didn’t take that risk neither of us would be where we
are.<

Fully agreed.
But I still hate prison/jail settings. Even straight I hate it. I’ve been
seriously assaulted in jail, (it wasn’t even prison, it was simply county
jail in Florida) so prison REALLY worries me.
Call whenever. We’re going out to breakfast soon, so….
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

Ever been through the system straight? I’m not sayin that it would be a fun
thing to do for three days but its gotta be a hell of a lot better than it
would have been. I say bring it on. let them arrest someone for responsibly
treating someone in NY or anywhere else. I’m hitting all of my old clinics
on a daily basis recruiting and each and everyone of those docs and
administrators not only know who I am but have my address and probably a lot
more. Shit I have an ID number that I keep forever and you punch that in and
I would think all my info comes up.
As long as you keep it as safe as possible and your not getting ridiculous
with the dosage that might be exactly what we need to bring this all to
light. I’m not volunteering or anything. But who knows maybe I’m totally
wrong and irresponsible but one thing is for sure if someone didn’t take
that risk neither of us would be where we are.
I’ll call you later. -M.

Preston Peet wrote:
Charlie wrote >Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an
Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.<

There are folk trying to make this a reality Charlie, but I’ve been a little
worried these past couple of day about it, due to my own personal fears of
prohibitionist maniacs. I have a real, hell, a Very Real Fear of going
through the Tombs (central cooking basically, only central booking has been
done away with here, so it’s now just the precinct house then the Tombs) and
on to Rikers Island wearing my typical choice in clothing, facing serious
drug charges- so I am slightly hesitant now to steer anyone towards those
doing treatments. At the same time, this is such an important issue, and
such an important possibility, that I’m almost of the attitude…almost?
That’s not quite ! right- I’m very much of the attitude that SOMEONE has to
do
it, and there aren’t a lot of others out there doing so now, so every voice
helps- so heck, I feel very torn and more than a bit nervous about what the
jackbooted thugs are thinking (and possibly doing) about the underground
Ibogaine treatments.
I hope this doesn’t come across as too negative, as I don’t mean it to-
I’m really simply voicing my fear here and sounding things out- feedback
always helps me think I find, and it helps me sort things out, make
decisions about my own thinking.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw”
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

> I sure hope I end up at a clinic (or similar), to find out if I would take
> the booster, as necessary.
> I went back on Suboxone this past Monday night, ! after taking my last
Oxy,
> late the night before. Feeling better now, but don’t really care much for
> the Suboxone, although it does work wonders for many people, maybe being
on
> such high doses of Oxy (20+, 80mg a day), with a little H and Coke mixed
in,
> is just too much for the Sub to take me all the way out of withdrawal. At
> least major relief comes after about half a week or so … but the fatigue
> seems to stay for ever.
> Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an Iboga/Ibogaine
> treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
> Preston, as well as everyone, thank you for helping keep the dream alive
for
> those of us who want to take the jump. I hope your lives continue to
> improve, as you help others to improve their lives as well.
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
> —————————————————
> www.pokerweb.com –
> —————————————————
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Preston Peet”
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
>
>
> > I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster
> until
> > I was ready to do so.
> > Peace and love,
> > Preston
> >
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: “Jasen Chamoun”
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
> >
> >
> > > So Preston,
> > > Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
> > > automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any
hanging
> > > out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
> > > —– Original Message —– With much
> > > appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
> > > From: “Preston Peet”
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
> > >
> > >
> > > > >or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
> > > > hanging out,
> > > > that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<
> > > >
> > > > This is precisely what I mean Jason.
> > > >
> > > > >***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
> > > > and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you starte! d
> > feeling
> > > > comfortable again<
> > > >
> > > > Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster,
and
> I
> > > > fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought
> until
> > > last
> > > > week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
> > > booster
> > > > but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
> > finally
> > > > calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read
> about
> > > > recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and
it
> > did
> > > > too, within about an hour I suppose.
> > > > peace and love,
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
&! gt; > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > [%]
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> [%]
> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [funny]
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:08:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just wrote a long response but my computer froze. Anyway yeah, we had a good talk and I obviously could tell 15 minutes into the convo that it was a little more than an Ibogaine lesson but at about 4:30 I went outside I think to wait for her and her friend BUT as usual these days, I went outside and looked up and the moon and became fascinated with the streetlights and the people and NY and I my legs just took me on my way. I gave her my number and email so I’m sure we’ll speak soon.
Remember we were talking about the whole, “My physical and mental well being coming first kind of a thing” well sometimes it happens without me even knowing it. I think subconsciously I needed to be alone and think about everything that led up to last night. All of yesterday. Anyway so as I walked something told me to take a cab but for obvious reasons I decided the train, however unbearable those freakin lights can be, was the smarter alternative. So I get on the 6 which pulled in like clockwork and I close my eyes next thing I know its 5:40 and I’m in scenic Hunts Point Bx. Got off at Longwood Ave pissed off and tired and had to switch back to Manhattan Bound and whaddda ya know as soon as I walk up the stairs its like the last open air dope spot open at 5:30 in the morning left in NY right off the corner. So I had a cigarette and watched the hand to hands for a while (can’t help that) and loved that the craving if you want to call it that just hours earlier was gone.  Then got back on the train and made it home at about 6:15.
Good times. Maybe I should have gone home with them after all.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Not a word Preston. ;o)<

word.
Peace and love,
and oh yeah, I’m dying to ask and I apologize for doing so so publicly, but
I’m gonna ask-
how’d it go last night? Did she go home with you?
;-)))
She was cute and cool it seemed, as was her friend. We were both (V and I)
so happy to see you chatting away with a cute smart activist hottie for at
least an hour last night (errr, this morning I mean) at that table in front
of the dj table.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Howard?

Okay hypothetically… I’m gonna take another 3mg.kg.
Not a word Preston. ;o)

mcorcoran wrote:
Fucking feelings!!! I’m fine though… I’m not gonna make a habit of testing
fate like I did last night but the way everything happened was probably just
what I needed. Maybe pushing this forward and making this happen for more
and more people who suffer is the only way I personally will stay clean long
term, who knows? I like that idea actually. BUT 40 odd days out the chills
and diarrhea and lack of energy can wear at you no matter how good your
state of mind might be. I guess the fundamental difference between Ibogaine
vs. any other detox I’ve done in the past is that if I was going through the
physical stuff the same way I still am now ( mild residuals) getting high
would be a no brainer but for whatever reason instead of “Make this go away
at all costs” its more like ” any day now this is all gonna end and I’m
going to feel 100%” NEVER have I had foresight like that before when it came
to my addiction or anything else f! or that matter.
I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days.
And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg
and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg
might put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to thi
s kinda thing, as always, I ask you.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do
you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt
with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep
me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in gen! eral issue, just remember you don’t have to
be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:58:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sandy,

I totally agree with you- after using Ibogaine about
2.5 weeks ago, I have not been able to eat ANY meat at
all.  Maybe the digestive enzymes aren’t being
produced, due to the Iboga.

I’m not complaining, though…I feel much lighter, and
my system really flushed itself out.  My skin also
looks better.

Weird, huh?

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: I hate not having a phone today!
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:42:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

don’t know if I’m up for a trip to Sheeps Meadow today Mark.
Give me a call soon though, as we are going out to eat breakfast (another
new trend as of late- going out in the “morning” to eat breakfast. I’m
loving eating- odd as that may sound coming from someone who really hates
eating usually).
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:28 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: I hate not having a phone today!

Hey Preston,  I forgot to ask you if you were going to haed over to the
Meadow this afternoon? From what I hear thats where everything is ending up
whether they like it or not. Should be fun but don’t forget your gas mask.
Seriously, if you feel like meeting over there let me know. As of now, I
think it’ll just be me and my sister, but that could change. Also I think
our friend from Bleecker St will be there. I’m home now so if you want we
can smoke at my house before.
I’m thinking I’ll head over around 3:00. Let me know. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,<

Shelly, as I was saying just last night to Mark,
By “slipping” you have NOT “thrown it all out” darn it. You have merely
“slipped,” you are not a loser, nor a bad person for having done so. We are
all addicts and drug abusers here (or so I think) or we used to be and still
could be at the drop of a hat. But one slip doesn’t make a “thrown away” nor
should you dwell on the guilt and shame. Bad Shelly, Bad!
Seriously, it’s ok to slip sometimes. Maybe you needed a reminder of why
you want to not be using. Perhaps you simply needed to have a night of
opiates, and your body took over to insure that. I do not know the reasons
why you really “slipped” but you’ve most certainly NOT thrown it all out.
That’s straight outta ! NA/AA, the idea that by making one mistake you are
no
longer “sober” that you’ve wasted all that clean time for nothing. Because
hell you still have how many months, 3 I think, clean? That’s amazing and
brilliant and not for nothing darn it!
You keep your chin up and PLEASE do not slip into the attitude of “oh
well, I fucked up, guess it’s for naught and I shouldn’t even continue to
try now” because it doesn’t have to be that way- you can realize that one
slip does not a bad person make, that you still have the choice of whether
you are going to do it again or not. It is YOUR choice.
Peace and love and best wishes for you,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.

Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for su! re what
happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I
could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had
called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling
more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can
always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for
sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i
have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step
approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in
deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my
own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice
&thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one sl!
ip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need
all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:41:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ha ha.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Not a word Preston. ;o)<

word.
Peace and love,
and oh yeah, I’m dying to ask and I apologize for doing so so publicly, but
I’m gonna ask-
how’d it go last night? Did she go home with you?
;-)))
She was cute and cool it seemed, as was her friend. We were both (V and I)
so happy to see you chatting away with a cute smart activist hottie for at
least an hour last night (errr, this morning I mean) at that table in front
of the dj table.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Howard?

Okay hypothetically… I’m gonna take another 3mg.kg.
Not a word Preston. ;o)

mcorcoran wrote:
Fucking feelings!!! I’m fine though… I’m not gonna make a habit of testing
fate like I did last night but the way everything happened was probably just
what I needed. Maybe pushing this forward and making this happen for more
and more people who suffer is the only way I personally will stay clean long
term, who knows? I like that idea actually. BUT 40 odd days out the chills
and diarrhea and lack of energy can wear at you no matter how good your
state of mind might be. I guess the fundamental difference between Ibogaine
vs. any other detox I’ve done in the past is that if I was going through the
physical stuff the same way I still am now ( mild residuals) getting high
would be a no brainer but for whatever reason instead of “Make this go away
at all costs” its more like ” any day now this is all gonna end and I’m
going to feel 100%” NEVER have I had foresight like that before when it came
to my addiction or anything else f! or that matter.
I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days.
And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg
and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg
might put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to thi
s kinda thing, as always, I ask you.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do
you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt
with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep
me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in gen! eral issue, just remember you don’t have to
be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:40:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks, that makes me feel really good that you would say that, but I do not know nearly as much as you do when it comes this. I do however have as pretty good sense when it comes to ibogaine and my body now but I’m still very confused sometimes when it comes to side affects of Ibogaine vs. residual withdrawal… and weighing the positives and negatives… I still feel like everything is an experiment.
Its strange, I feel like I have a much better sense of this kinda thing when it comes to others than I do myself. Who knows. Maybe its better to keep it as simple as possible. If we are fortunate enough to have a booster then bite the bullet and take the booster.
Okay then. -M.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:48:52 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days.
And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg
and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg might
put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to this kinda
thing, as always, I ask you. >>

Mark,

You know about as much as I do at this point. What is your concern about
another 5mg. You thought drops off and I have learned not to finish someone
else’s thoughts with my own.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:38:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A pain patient that was taking 500 60 mil Oxys every two weeks comes back
in to the pain management clinic a week later and needs a 1/4 or even less
of what he was taking before.<

Not Oxy’s Mark, which I think (could be mistaken) are codeine based- whereas
I was shooting about 400 dilaudids every 3 weeks and eating about 45
MS-Contins (morphine based- and at 60 milligrams not the 30 I’ve been
quoting I realized yesterday reading my bottle-silly me) during the same
time frame.
So in one regard you’re correct that it seems a pretty big huge
breakthrough to have so drastically reduced my intake.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine

Thats a tremendous opportunity. An approch that can’t be minimized or
written off. A pain patient that was taking 500 60 mil Oxys every two weeks
comes back in to the pain management clinic a week later and needs a 1/4 or
even less of what he was taking before. How can that be anything but a huge
medical breakthrough? Why is the medical field so uninformed when it comes
to something so profound? Wait, I think I know the answer to that one.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I think that one of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
groups. And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.<

Yeah, I agree, being a pain patient and all.
I can’t wait to hand my doc that cool book about ibogaine- both he and the
assistant doc were blown away, very obviously, that I was not only asking
for but basically demanding that my dose be lowered- and they were more than
happy to do so for me. They were very weirded out too I could tell, in that
I was admiting to having taken a very illegal drug they’d never heard of,
one that obviously works, at least for me anyway.
So it’s going to be a real treat to hand them that book about ibogaine.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:56:57 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

P.S. Howard, I have a question. I am sure you have thought about this
approach but the lack of incentive due to small profits from Ibogaine use
could be offset by it’s use with opiates in chronic pain management
cases.
Of course
I am referring to pretty small amounts but if IBO undoes ‘addiction’ and
also
lowers one’s tolerance to opiates, couldn’t it be touted as a useful
supplement
when administered with opiate medication? It would keep the patient’s
need
for increasing dosages to a minimum and would (could?)prevent addiction!
What
do you think?

Julian,

Ibogaine ability to potentiate opiate analgesia was one of the earliest
discoveries in the modern ibogaine period. jurg Schneider, a Ciba
pharmacologist
who went on to become the President of Dupont’s biochemicals division
made the
discovery in the 1950s.

Pharmaceutical companies do not want to develop molecules found in nature
and
for whatever reason, they apparently don’t want to develop any of the
iboga
alkaloids that may have a potential to effect drug dependence. If iboga
alkaloids were out there to be used as an adjunct to pain management you
can bet
your bottom dollar there would be off label uses galore. I think that one
of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
groups. And that has to be don! e be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.
On my part I will initiate contact with pain management organizations for
political actions issues but, I’m simply not going to be among the front
line
troops dosing patients: Been there, done that.

For those of you who cannot get to the Harm Reduction Conference in New
Orleans in November, I will have my presentation up on the Ibogaine
Dossier and I
think that will give you some understanding of the historical precedents
that
have already been established for movements of this kind: Those offering
freedom rather than slavery and self determination rather than blind
obedience. You
are so right Julian. The questions is how do we make it so.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:35:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you live in a constant state of fear of what will happen when the
ibogaine
wears off or if there is not another dose of ibogaine you are setting
yourself up to be frightened and fear drives addiction.  I am not saying
these are
not realities but, try to give yourselves a break. Don’t be so hard on your
selves.  Yea, yea I know it these are just words but, in the beginning there
was
the word. <

Beautiful Howard, thanks.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Howard?

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:38:29 AM, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey All,thanks for your encouragement,I needed that!Hey Howard what is
the
general concensus on boosters??When I talked to dmash last she was trying
to
devalop a patch to wear to ward off cravings,is ib used at intervals to
stay
sober using boosters?And if so am i a candidate after a slip?Or is there a
point after ibogaine where we just have to learn the hard way?Havnt seen
any info
online about us post noribogaine folks ,just curious-shell >>

There is no hard and fast to all of this.  And for some patients there is
little noribogaine in the picture at all. The best case scenario is that
at what
ever point, if you can you just figure it out and keep on trucking…well,
keep on trucking.

It is like you are all forecasting doom.  I don’t feel the ibogaine
anymore…fuck!!  OK..fuck!!  If there is a noribogaine patch…fine.  If
there is a
booster dose of ibogaine…fine but, if not…fine too.  I don’t mean to
be
harsh.  I just want you all to be a comfortable as possible.  Be good to
yourselves.  Be kind to yourselves.  It is OK to love yourselves.

If you live in a constant state of fear of what will happen when the
ibogaine
wears off or if there is not another dose of ibogaine you are setting
yourself up to be frightened and fear drives addiction.  I am not saying
these are
not realities but, try to give yourselves a break. Don’t be so hard on
your
selves.  Yea, yea I know it these are just words but, in the beginning
there was
the word.

The whole noribogaine patch and 18-mc development programs are very
discouraging.  It seems doctors with universities behind them can’t get a
drug
development program off the ground when a few uncredentialed iboganauts
could.  What
is the world coming to? What incompetence!

Howard

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:33:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But who knows maybe I’m totally wrong and irresponsible but one thing is
for sure if someone didn’t take that risk neither of us would be where we
are.<

Fully agreed.
But I still hate prison/jail settings. Even straight I hate it. I’ve been
seriously assaulted in jail, (it wasn’t even prison, it was simply county
jail in Florida) so prison REALLY worries me.
Call whenever. We’re going out to breakfast soon, so….
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

Ever been through the system straight? I’m not sayin that it would be a  fun
thing to do for three days but its gotta be a hell of a lot better than it
would have been.  I say bring it on. let them arrest someone for responsibly
treating someone in NY or anywhere else. I’m hitting all of my old clinics
on a daily basis recruiting and each and everyone of those docs and
administrators not only know who I am but have my address and probably a lot
more. Shit I have an ID number that I keep forever and you punch that in and
I would think all my info comes up.
As long as you keep it as safe as possible and your not getting ridiculous
with the dosage that might be exactly what we need to bring this all to
light. I’m not volunteering or anything. But who knows maybe I’m totally
wrong and irresponsible but one thing is for sure if someone didn’t take
that risk neither of us would be where we are.
I’ll call you later. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Charlie wrote >Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an
Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.<

There are folk trying to make this a reality Charlie, but I’ve been a little
worried these past couple of day about it, due to my own personal fears of
prohibitionist maniacs. I have a real, hell, a Very Real Fear of going
through the Tombs (central cooking basically, only central booking has been
done away with here, so it’s now just the precinct house then the Tombs) and
on to Rikers Island wearing my typical choice in clothing, facing serious
drug charges- so I am slightly hesitant now to steer anyone towards those
doing treatments. At the same time, this is such an important issue, and
such an important possibility, that I’m almost of the attitude…almost?
That’s not quite ! right- I’m very much of the attitude that SOMEONE has to
do
it, and there aren’t a lot of others out there doing so now, so every voice
helps- so heck, I feel very torn and more than a bit nervous about what the
jackbooted thugs are thinking (and possibly doing) about the underground
Ibogaine treatments.
I hope this doesn’t come across as too negative, as I don’t mean it to-
I’m really simply voicing my fear here and sounding things out- feedback
always helps me think I find, and it helps me sort things out, make
decisions about my own thinking.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw”
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

I sure hope I end up at a clinic (or similar), to find out if I would take
the booster, as necessary.
I went back on Suboxone this past Monday night, ! after taking my last
Oxy,
late the night before. Feeling better now, but don’t really care much for
the Suboxone, although it does work wonders for many people, maybe being
on
such high doses of Oxy (20+, 80mg a day), with a little H and Coke mixed
in,
is just too much for the Sub to take me all the way out of withdrawal. At
least major relief comes after about half a week or so … but the fatigue
seems to stay for ever.
Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
Preston, as well as everyone, thank you for helping keep the dream alive
for
those of us who want to take the jump. I hope your lives continue to
improve, as you help others to improve their lives as well.
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster
until
I was ready to do so.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun”
To:
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

So Preston,
Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any
hanging
out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
—– Original Message —– With much
appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: “Preston Peet”
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you starte! d
feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster,
and
I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought
until
last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read
about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and
it
did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

&! gt; > >

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: I hate not having a phone today!
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:28:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,  I forgot to ask you if you were going to haed over to the Meadow this afternoon? From what I hear thats where everything is ending up whether they like it or not. Should be fun but don’t forget your gas mask. Seriously, if you feel like meeting over there let me know. As of now, I think it’ll just be me and my sister, but that could change. Also I think our friend from Bleecker St will be there. I’m home now so if you want we can smoke at my house before.
I’m thinking I’ll head over around 3:00. Let me know. -M.
Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,<

Shelly, as I was saying just last night to Mark,
By “slipping” you have NOT “thrown it all out” darn it. You have merely
“slipped,” you are not a loser, nor a bad person for having done so. We are
all addicts and drug abusers here (or so I think) or we used to be and still
could be at the drop of a hat. But one slip doesn’t make a “thrown away” nor
should you dwell on the guilt and shame. Bad Shelly, Bad!
Seriously, it’s ok to slip sometimes. Maybe you needed a reminder of why
you want to not be using. Perhaps you simply needed to have a night of
opiates, and your body took over to insure that. I do not know the reasons
why you really “slipped” but you’ve most certainly NOT thrown it all out.
That’s straight outta NA/AA, the idea that by making one mistake you are no
longer “sober” that you’ve wasted all that clean time for nothing. Because
hell you still have how many months, 3 I think, clean? That’s amazing and
brilliant and not for nothing darn it!
You keep your chin up and PLEASE do not slip into the attitude of “oh
well, I fucked up, guess it’s for naught and I shouldn’t even continue to
try now” because it doesn’t have to be that way- you can realize that one
slip does not a bad person make, that you still have the choice of whether
you are going to do it again or not. It is YOUR choice.
Peace and love and best wishes for you,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.

Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what
happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I
could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had
called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling
more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can
always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for
sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i
have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step
approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in
deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my
own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice
&thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one sl!
ip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need
all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:28:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not a word Preston. ;o)<

word.
Peace and love,
and oh yeah, I’m dying to ask and I apologize for doing so so publicly, but
I’m gonna ask-
how’d it go last night? Did she go home with you?
;-)))
She was cute and cool it seemed, as was her friend. We were both (V and I)
so happy to see you chatting away with a cute smart activist hottie for at
least an hour last night (errr, this morning I mean) at that table in front
of the dj table.
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: mcorcoran
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Howard?

Okay hypothetically… I’m gonna take another 3mg.kg.
Not a word Preston. ;o)

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Fucking feelings!!! I’m fine though… I’m not gonna make a habit of testing
fate like I did last night but the way everything happened was probably just
what I needed. Maybe pushing this forward and making this happen for more
and more people who suffer is the only way I personally will stay clean long
term, who knows? I like that idea actually.  BUT 40 odd days out the chills
and diarrhea and lack of energy can wear at you no matter how good your
state of mind might be. I guess the fundamental difference between Ibogaine
vs. any other detox I’ve done in the past is that if I was going through the
physical stuff the same way I still am now ( mild residuals) getting high
would be a no brainer but for whatever reason instead of “Make this go away
at all costs” its more like ” any day now this is all gonna end and I’m
going to feel 100%” NEVER have I had foresight like that before when it came
to my addiction or anything else f! or that matter.
I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days.
And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg
and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg
might put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to thi
s kinda thing, as always, I ask you.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do
you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt
with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep
me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in gen! eral issue, just remember you don’t have to
be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

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From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:27:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shelly,

I very much agree with Preston that taking the 12 step, “well all that time is gone now” apporoach may not be the best.  The fact is, you have NOT used more then you have used for, did I hear correctly 3 months?  Don’t let that shame/guilt or whatever bring you down.  You are where you are now, not yesterday or whatever.  Just learn from it and let it go.  Know you aren’t alone.  And when I say that it isn’t as some slogan to put on a bumper sticker, Shelly, you really aren’t alone, for real yo!!

Sometimes, when I first stopped after iboga, I felt I had to be perfect because I felt like the iboga/ine salesman or spokesman or whatever (obviouslly an ego trip) and that prevented me from looking at some of the leftover stuff that I had to look at without iboga/ine.  Everyone is different though and I don’t want to project my experience as yours.  Find your own path.  And please Talk soon.

With Love to you and your family,
Jason

PS Julia, that isn’t me in the picts, as much as I would like for it to be :  )

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,<

Shelly, as I was saying just last night to Mark,
By “slipping” you have NOT “thrown it all out” darn it. You have merely
“slipped,” you are not a loser, nor a bad person for having done so. We are
all addicts and drug abusers here (or so I think) or we used to be and still
could be at the drop of a hat. But one slip doesn’t make a “thrown away” nor
should you dwell on the guilt and shame. Bad Shelly, Bad!
Seriously, it’s ok to slip sometimes. Maybe you needed a reminder of why
you want to not be using. Perhaps you simply needed to have a night of
opiates, and your body took over to insure that. I do not know the reasons
why you really “slipped” but you’ve most certainly NOT thrown it all out.
That’s straight outta NA/AA, the idea that by making one mistake you are no
longer “sober” that you’ve wasted all that clean time for nothing. Because
hell you still have how many months, 3 I think, clean? That’s amazing and
brilliant and not for nothing darn it!
You keep your chin up and PLEASE do not slip into the attitude of “oh
well, I fucked up, guess it’s for naught and I shouldn’t even continue to
try now” because it doesn’t have to be that way- you can realize that one
slip does not a bad person make, that you still have the choice of whether
you are going to do it again or not. It is YOUR choice.
Peace and love and best wishes for you,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.

Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what
happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I
could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had
called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling
more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can
always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for
sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i
have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step
approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in
deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my
own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice
&thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one sl!
ip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need
all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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l
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:25:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:14:28 PM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Thats a tremendous opportunity. An approch that can’t be minimized or
written off. A pain patient that was taking 500 60 mil Oxys every two weeks comes
back in to the pain management clinic a week later and needs a 1/4 or even
less of what he was taking before. How can that be anything but a huge medical
breakthrough? Why is the medical field so uninformed when it comes to something
so profound? Wait, I think I know the answer to that one.  >>

The medical field do not pharmaceuticals make.  At least not any more in this
country for the most part. That is an area of pharmaceutical development.
The doctors in this area provide experiments rather than practice medicine.
Which is fine.  All things in there place.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:19:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 12:03:15 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

<< I’m curious about this too. Does anyone here with more experience with

post-ibo folk have any info on this? Is it common for those who try ibo to

come out of it with this aversion to meat? Or is it more the focus on being

healthy and not putting poisons (damn this smokes) into my/our bodies?

Because in my case, I’ve stopped so much intake of animal products I’m

blowing V’s strictly Vegan and very happy mind. I don’t do meat at all now,

for the last 3 weeks or so, and my dairy intake has been drastically

reduced- V was just pointing out how long a half-gallon of milk is now

lasting as opposed to the quart to half-gallon a DAY I was going through

pre-ibo. I don’t do cold cereal anymore (at this point anyway) and other

dairy products are as noted drastically reduced. >>

Dietary changes are not uncommon.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:16:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,<

Shelly, as I was saying just last night to Mark,
By “slipping” you have NOT “thrown it all out” darn it. You have merely
“slipped,” you are not a loser, nor a bad person for having done so. We are
all addicts and drug abusers here (or so I think) or we used to be and still
could be at the drop of a hat. But one slip doesn’t make a “thrown away” nor
should you dwell on the guilt and shame. Bad Shelly, Bad!
Seriously, it’s ok to slip sometimes. Maybe you needed a reminder of why
you want to not be using. Perhaps you simply needed to have a night of
opiates, and your body took over to insure that. I do not know the reasons
why you really “slipped” but you’ve most certainly NOT thrown it all out.
That’s straight outta NA/AA, the idea that by making one mistake you are no
longer “sober” that you’ve wasted all that clean time for nothing. Because
hell you still have how many months, 3 I think, clean? That’s amazing and
brilliant and not for nothing darn it!
You keep your chin up and PLEASE do not slip into the attitude of “oh
well, I fucked up, guess it’s for naught and I shouldn’t even continue to
try now” because it doesn’t have to be that way- you can realize that one
slip does not a bad person make, that you still have the choice of whether
you are going to do it again or not. It is YOUR choice.
Peace and love and best wishes for you,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.

Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got
real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what
happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I
could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had
called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling
more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can
always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for
sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i
have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step
approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in
deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my
own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice
&thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one sl!
ip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need
all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:15:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:48:52 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<<  I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days.
And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg
and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg might
put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to this kinda
thing, as always, I ask you.  >>

Mark,

You know about as much as I do at this point.  What is your concern about
another 5mg.  You thought drops off and I have learned not to finish someone
else’s thoughts with my own.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:13:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thats a tremendous opportunity. An approch that can’t be minimized or written off. A pain patient that was taking 500 60 mil Oxys every two weeks comes back in to the pain management clinic a week later and needs a 1/4 or even less of what he was taking before. How can that be anything but a huge medical breakthrough? Why is the medical field so uninformed when it comes to something so profound? Wait, I think I know the answer to that one.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>I think that one of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
groups. And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.<

Yeah, I agree, being a pain patient and all.
I can’t wait to hand my doc that cool book about ibogaine- both he and the
assistant doc were blown away, very obviously, that I was not only asking
for but basically demanding that my dose be lowered- and they were more than
happy to do so for me. They were very weirded out too I could tell, in that
I was admiting to having taken a very illegal drug they’d never heard of,
one that obviously works, at least for me anyway.
So it’s going to be a real treat to hand them that book about ibogaine.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine

>
> In a message dated 8/28/04 11:56:57 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
>
> >P.S. Howard, I have a question. I am sure you have thought about this
> >approach but the lack of incentive due to small profits from Ibogaine use
> >could be offset by it’s use with opiates in chronic pain management
cases.
> Of course
> >I am referring to pretty small amounts but if IBO undoes ‘addiction’ and
also
> >lowers one’s tolerance to opiates, couldn’t it be touted as a useful
> supplement
> >when administered with opiate medication? It would keep the patient’s
need
> >for increasing dosages to a minimum and would (could?)prevent addiction!
What
> >do you think?
>
> Julian,
>
> Ibogaine ability to potentiate opiate analgesia was one of the earliest
> discoveries in the modern ibogaine period. jurg Schneider, a Ciba
pharmacologist
> who went on to become the President of Dupont’s biochemicals division
made the
> discovery in the 1950s.
>
> Pharmaceutical companies do not want to develop molecules found in nature
and
> for whatever reason, they apparently don’t want to develop any of the
iboga
> alkaloids that may have a potential to effect drug dependence. If iboga
> alkaloids were out there to be used as an adjunct to pain management you
can bet
> your bottom dollar there would be off label uses galore. I think that one
of the
> area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
> treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
> groups. And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.
> On my part I will initiate contact with pain management organizations for
> political actions issues but, I’m simply not going to be among the front
line
> troops dosing patients: Been there, done that.
>
> For those of you who cannot get to the Harm Reduction Conference in New
> Orleans in November, I will have my presentation up on the Ibogaine
Dossier and I
> think that will give you some understanding of the historical precedents
that
> have already been established for movements of this kind: Those offering
> freedom rather than slavery and self determination rather than blind
obedience. You
> are so right Julian. The questions is how do we make it so.
>
> Howard
>
>
>
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>
>

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:09:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:38:29 AM, skrupa20022002@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey All,thanks for your encouragement,I needed that!Hey Howard what is the
general concensus on boosters??When I talked to dmash last she was trying to
devalop a patch to wear to ward off cravings,is ib used at intervals to stay
sober using boosters?And if so am i a candidate after a slip?Or is there a
point after ibogaine where we just have to learn the hard way?Havnt seen any info
online about us post noribogaine folks ,just curious-shell >>

There is no hard and fast to all of this.  And for some patients there is
little noribogaine in the picture at all. The best case scenario is that at what
ever point, if you can you just figure it out and keep on trucking…well,
keep on trucking.

It is like you are all forecasting doom.  I don’t feel the ibogaine
anymore…fuck!!  OK..fuck!!  If there is a noribogaine patch…fine.  If there is a
booster dose of ibogaine…fine but, if not…fine too.  I don’t mean to be
harsh.  I just want you all to be a comfortable as possible.  Be good to
yourselves.  Be kind to yourselves.  It is OK to love yourselves.

If you live in a constant state of fear of what will happen when the ibogaine
wears off or if there is not another dose of ibogaine you are setting
yourself up to be frightened and fear drives addiction.  I am not saying these are
not realities but, try to give yourselves a break. Don’t be so hard on your
selves.  Yea, yea I know it these are just words but, in the beginning there was
the word.

The whole noribogaine patch and 18-mc development programs are very
discouraging.  It seems doctors with universities behind them can’t get a drug
development program off the ground when a few uncredentialed iboganauts could.  What
is the world coming to? What incompetence!

Howard

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Music on Gammalyte??
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:08:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Charlie wrote >you mentioned one of the biggest factors (but not
the only) that make me want to do my treatment at home.  I want my cats to
be with me to share in the experience with me, and for me to ask guidance
from if I get lost in my vision.  My cats are my favorite people.<

My main lapcat Bobbie came over and sprawled on top of me as soon as I began
to feel the first ibo dose. He got a little heavy pretty quickly so I had to
ask him to get off, but I appreciated having him and the other 9 around-
they’re some of my favorite people too. They were very well behaved during
my voyage, although I think V locked some of them in the back bedroom for
the first day due to their overexhuberant behavior All The Time.
;-))
I completely agree that the cats are not only aware that I’m tripping
(on other substances too when I am actually tripping) that they’re very
concious and react very visibly to whatever forces are unleashed while I’m
dosed. Shrooms, wow, they watch and following things all around the room
while I’m tripping, every single time.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Music on Gammalyte??

Hi Preston,
I hope your after-Ibo experience is still filled with much more joy and
energy, than the other side of the coin.  I hate to be redundant, but it
really has been uplifting, to read about your experience, as it happens.

I know a clinical setting is suggested by most people as the best
atmosphere
to do Ibo/Ibogaine, but you mentioned one of the biggest factors (but not
the only) that make me want to do my treatment at home.  I want my cats to
be with me to share in the experience with me, and for me to ask guidance
from if I get lost in my vision.  My cats are my favorite people.
May I wish much peace and love to you, and all,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Music on Gammalyte??

just turn off the monitor, that would shed too much light on the
subject… as it were.<

My lovely cats continued to “let the light in” so to speak by doing such
kind and generous actions as stepping on my keyboard or mouse and
setting
off the still-turned on monitor-cause we’re all such stoners we never
thought to actually turn it off, and by stepping on the blackout
curtains
we
hung in the windows and letting lazerbeams blast me in my closed by
extremely light-sensitive eyeballs.
I love my cats.
Peace and love to all,
Preston

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:05:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ever been through the system straight? I’m not sayin that it would be a  fun thing to do for three days but its gotta be a hell of a lot better than it would have been.  I say bring it on. let them arrest someone for responsibly treating someone in NY or anywhere else. I’m hitting all of my old clinics on a daily basis recruiting and each and everyone of those docs and administrators not only know who I am but have my address and probably a lot more. Shit I have an ID number that I keep forever and you punch that in and I would think all my info comes up.
As long as you keep it as safe as possible and your not getting ridiculous with the dosage that might be exactly what we need to bring this all to light. I’m not volunteering or anything. But who knows maybe I’m totally wrong and irresponsible but one thing is for sure if someone didn’t take that risk neither of us would be where we are.
I’ll call you later. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Charlie wrote >Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an
Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.<

There are folk trying to make this a reality Charlie, but I’ve been a little
worried these past couple of day about it, due to my own personal fears of
prohibitionist maniacs. I have a real, hell, a Very Real Fear of going
through the Tombs (central cooking basically, only central booking has been
done away with here, so it’s now just the precinct house then the Tombs) and
on to Rikers Island wearing my typical choice in clothing, facing serious
drug charges- so I am slightly hesitant now to steer anyone towards those
doing treatments. At the same time, this is such an important issue, and
such an important possibility, that I’m almost of the attitude…almost?
That’s not quite right- I’m very much of the attitude that SOMEONE has to do
it, and there aren’t a lot of others out there doing so now, so every voice
helps- so heck, I feel very torn and more than a bit nervous about what the
jackbooted thugs are thinking (and possibly doing) about the underground
Ibogaine treatments.
I hope this doesn’t come across as too negative, as I don’t mean it to-
I’m really simply voicing my fear here and sounding things out- feedback
always helps me think I find, and it helps me sort things out, make
decisions about my own thinking.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw”
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

> I sure hope I end up at a clinic (or similar), to find out if I would take
> the booster, as necessary.
> I went back on Suboxone this past Monday night, after taking my last Oxy,
> late the night before. Feeling better now, but don’t really care much for
> the Suboxone, although it does work wonders for many people, maybe being
on
> such high doses of Oxy (20+, 80mg a day), with a little H and Coke mixed
in,
> is just too much for the Sub to take me all the way out of withdrawal. At
> least major relief comes after about half a week or so … but the fatigue
> seems to stay for ever.
> Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an Iboga/Ibogaine
> treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
> Preston, as well as everyone, thank you for helping keep the dream alive
for
> those of us who want to take the jump. I hope your lives continue to
> improve, as you help others to improve their lives as well.
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
> —————————————————
> www.pokerweb.com –
> —————————————————
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Preston Peet”
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
>
>
> > I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster
> until
> > I was ready to do so.
> > Peace and love,
> > Preston
> >
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: “Jasen Chamoun”
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
> >
> >
> > > So Preston,
> > > Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
> > > automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any
hanging
> > > out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
> > > —– Original Message —– With much
> > > appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
> > > From: “Preston Peet”
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
> > >
> > >
> > > > >or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
> > > > hanging out,
> > > > that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<
> > > >
> > > > This is precisely what I mean Jason.
> > > >
> > > > >***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
> > > > and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started
> > feeling
> > > > comfortable again<
> > > >
> > > > Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster,
and
> I
> > > > fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought
> until
> > > last
> > > > week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
> > > booster
> > > > but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
> > finally
> > > > calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read
> about
> > > > recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and
it
> > did
> > > > too, within about an hour I suppose.
> > > > peace and love,
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > [%]
> > >
> >
>
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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>

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:05:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ever been through the system straight? I’m not sayin that it would be a  fun thing to do for three days but its gotta be a hell of a lot better than it would have been.  I say bring it on. let them arrest someone for responsibly treating someone in NY or anywhere else. I’m hitting all of my old clinics on a daily basis recruiting and each and everyone of those docs and administrators not only know who I am but have my address and probably a lot more. Shit I have an ID number that I keep forever and you punch that in and I would think all my info comes up.
As long as you keep it as safe as possible and your not getting ridiculous with the dosage that might be exactly what we need to bring this all to light. I’m not volunteering or anything. But who knows maybe I’m totally wrong and irresponsible but one thing is for sure if someone didn’t take that risk neither of us would be where we are.
I’ll call you later. -M.

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Charlie wrote >Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an
Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.<

There are folk trying to make this a reality Charlie, but I’ve been a little
worried these past couple of day about it, due to my own personal fears of
prohibitionist maniacs. I have a real, hell, a Very Real Fear of going
through the Tombs (central cooking basically, only central booking has been
done away with here, so it’s now just the precinct house then the Tombs) and
on to Rikers Island wearing my typical choice in clothing, facing serious
drug charges- so I am slightly hesitant now to steer anyone towards those
doing treatments. At the same time, this is such an important issue, and
such an important possibility, that I’m almost of the attitude…almost?
That’s not quite right- I’m very much of the attitude that SOMEONE has to do
it, and there aren’t a lot of others out there doing so now, so every voice
helps- so heck, I feel very torn and more than a bit nervous about what the
jackbooted thugs are thinking (and possibly doing) about the underground
Ibogaine treatments.
I hope this doesn’t come across as too negative, as I don’t mean it to-
I’m really simply voicing my fear here and sounding things out- feedback
always helps me think I find, and it helps me sort things out, make
decisions about my own thinking.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw”
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

> I sure hope I end up at a clinic (or similar), to find out if I would take
> the booster, as necessary.
> I went back on Suboxone this past Monday night, after taking my last Oxy,
> late the night before. Feeling better now, but don’t really care much for
> the Suboxone, although it does work wonders for many people, maybe being
on
> such high doses of Oxy (20+, 80mg a day), with a little H and Coke mixed
in,
> is just too much for the Sub to take me all the way out of withdrawal. At
> least major relief comes after about half a week or so … but the fatigue
> seems to stay for ever.
> Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an Iboga/Ibogaine
> treatment; and I will find one. Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
> Preston, as well as everyone, thank you for helping keep the dream alive
for
> those of us who want to take the jump. I hope your lives continue to
> improve, as you help others to improve their lives as well.
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>
> —————————————————
> www.pokerweb.com –
> —————————————————
> —– Original Message —–
> From: “Preston Peet”
> To:
> Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
>
>
> > I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster
> until
> > I was ready to do so.
> > Peace and love,
> > Preston
> >
> >
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: “Jasen Chamoun”
> > To:
> > Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
> >
> >
> > > So Preston,
> > > Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
> > > automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any
hanging
> > > out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
> > > —– Original Message —– With much
> > > appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
> > > From: “Preston Peet”
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
> > >
> > >
> > > > >or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
> > > > hanging out,
> > > > that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<
> > > >
> > > > This is precisely what I mean Jason.
> > > >
> > > > >***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
> > > > and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started
> > feeling
> > > > comfortable again<
> > > >
> > > > Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster,
and
> I
> > > > fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought
> until
> > > last
> > > > week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
> > > booster
> > > > but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
> > finally
> > > > calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read
> about
> > > > recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and
it
> > did
> > > > too, within about an hour I suppose.
> > > > peace and love,
> > > > Preston
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> >
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:02:55 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sandy wondered >I am wondering if most folks find meat less interesting
after ibogaine or is it just folks who sort of want to eat less of it, find
it easier to abstain.<

I’m curious about this too. Does anyone here with more experience with
post-ibo folk have any info on this? Is it common for those who try ibo to
come out of it with this aversion to meat? Or is it more the focus on being
healthy and not putting poisons (damn this smokes) into my/our bodies?
Because in my case, I’ve stopped so much intake of animal products I’m
blowing V’s strictly Vegan and very happy mind. I don’t do meat at all now,
for the last 3 weeks or so, and my dairy intake has been drastically
reduced- V was just pointing out how long a half-gallon of milk is now
lasting as opposed to the quart to half-gallon a DAY I was going through
pre-ibo. I don’t do cold cereal anymore (at this point anyway) and other
dairy products are as noted drastically reduced.
Peace and love,
Preston

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 2:33 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat

Hey Preston.  Your remark that you have an aversion to meat after ibogaine
interests me a lot, since I remember, even before my ibo trips meat would
interest me much less.  However, I wanted to become a vegetarian and found
iboga somehow made it easier.  I am wondering if most folks find meat less
interesting after ibogaine or is it just folks who sort of want to eat less
of it, find it easier to abstain.
It’s taken me years, but I am finally about 75% vegan, and feel much
“cleaner” in my body without animal products in it very much.  I still crave
meat but it comes and goes and if I do give in to it, I don’t seem to want
it again for quite a while and it sort of disgusts me after the first few
bites.
Just wondering?
Best,  Sandy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:57:51 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not yet Charlie, but I do believe there will be some folk out there quite
soon. I’ll try to find out and post info here.
Peace and love and yeah, the city has drastically changed in the last 3
years- “this is Disney Land darn it, how Dare you wanna Smoke/party/make
noise/dress weird/etc.” Egad!
But there are still plenty of freak here (ahem) and I love this place still.
Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief
discussion

Any ideas when this greater availability might be available in the Pacific
Northwest, USA?  I’ve spent time in NY and love “The City” with a passion,
but am not able to make a trip there right now.
I don’t know if I could emotionally handle the changes from three years ago,
anyway.
Charlie

—————————————————
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—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief
discussion

Hi Preston,

Just read you interview with FM.  It was cool learn more about him.  He
called constantly during my treatment, and made my parents feel as calm as
possible about what I was doing.

He is really a great guy, and I think that ongoing treatments in the US is a
great goal.
I wouln’d mind a second treatment myself in about six months.  Good to know
this may be possible.

Sean

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:55:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that one of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
groups.  And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.<

Yeah, I agree, being a pain patient and all.
I can’t wait to hand my doc that cool book about ibogaine- both he and the
assistant doc were blown away, very obviously, that I was not only asking
for but basically demanding that my dose be lowered- and they were more than
happy to do so for me. They were very weirded out too I could tell, in that
I was admiting to having taken a very illegal drug they’d never heard of,
one that obviously works, at least for me anyway.
So it’s going to be a real treat to hand them that book about ibogaine.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:56:57 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

P.S. Howard, I have a question. I am sure you have thought about this
approach but the lack of incentive due to small profits from Ibogaine use
could be offset by it’s use with opiates in chronic pain management
cases.
Of course
I am referring to pretty small amounts but if IBO undoes ‘addiction’ and
also
lowers one’s tolerance to opiates, couldn’t it be touted as a useful
supplement
when administered with opiate medication? It would keep the patient’s
need
for increasing dosages to a minimum and would (could?)prevent addiction!
What
do you think?

Julian,

Ibogaine ability to potentiate opiate analgesia was one of the earliest
discoveries in the modern ibogaine period.  jurg Schneider, a Ciba
pharmacologist
who went on to become the President of Dupont’s  biochemicals division
made the
discovery in the 1950s.

Pharmaceutical companies do not want to develop molecules found in nature
and
for whatever reason, they apparently don’t want to develop any of the
iboga
alkaloids that may have a potential to effect drug dependence.  If iboga
alkaloids were out there to be used as an adjunct to pain management you
can bet
your bottom dollar there would be off label uses galore.  I think that one
of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient
rights
groups.  And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management
patients.
On my part I will initiate contact with pain management organizations for
political actions issues but, I’m simply not going to be among the front
line
troops dosing patients:  Been there, done that.

For those of you who cannot get to the Harm Reduction Conference in New
Orleans in November, I will have my presentation up on the Ibogaine
Dossier and I
think that will give you some understanding of the historical precedents
that
have already been established for movements of this kind: Those offering
freedom rather than slavery and self determination rather than blind
obedience.  You
are so right Julian.  The questions is how do we make it so.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:55:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:29:50 AM, CallieMimosa@aol.com writes:

<< I am not Howard but I want to say something here.
I think that no plan in my past may be one of the reasons I relapsed each
time I went through treatment. I came out without a physical addiction,
feeling
pretty good, looking a helluva lot better but soon found myself with all that
old shit in my brain and nothing to do with it but use!
I hope someone does put the answer down here! I am going to be paying
attention.
Dave and Howard and anyone else out there with significant clean
time…..how did you not use when all that old stuff showed back  up? >>

Fear of using and something to do.  A purpose to have.  A quest to follow.
Something to do and more something to do that gives a sense of accomplishment
and pleasure.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:52:31 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Charlie wrote >Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an
Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one.  Sooner, rather than later, I hope.<

There are folk trying to make this a reality Charlie, but I’ve been a little
worried these past couple of day about it, due to my own personal fears of
prohibitionist maniacs. I have a real, hell, a Very Real Fear of going
through the Tombs (central cooking basically, only central booking has been
done away with here, so it’s now just the precinct house then the Tombs) and
on to Rikers Island wearing my typical choice in clothing, facing serious
drug charges- so I am slightly hesitant now to steer anyone towards those
doing treatments. At the same time, this is such an important issue, and
such an important possibility, that I’m almost of the attitude…almost?
That’s not quite right- I’m very much of the attitude that SOMEONE has to do
it, and there aren’t a lot of others out there doing so now, so every voice
helps- so heck, I feel very torn and more than a bit nervous about what the
jackbooted thugs are thinking (and possibly doing) about the underground
Ibogaine treatments.
I hope this doesn’t come across as too negative, as I don’t mean it to-
I’m really simply voicing my fear here and sounding things out- feedback
always helps me think I find, and it helps me sort things out, make
decisions about my own thinking.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

I sure hope I end up at a clinic (or similar), to find out if I would take
the booster, as necessary.
I went back on Suboxone this past Monday night, after taking my last Oxy,
late the night before. Feeling better now, but don’t really care much for
the Suboxone, although it does work wonders for many people, maybe being
on
such high doses of Oxy (20+, 80mg a day), with a little H and Coke mixed
in,
is just too much for the Sub to take me all the way out of withdrawal.  At
least major relief comes after about half a week or so … but the fatigue
seems to stay for ever.
Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one.  Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
Preston, as well as everyone, thank you for helping keep the dream alive
for
those of us who want to take the jump.  I hope your lives continue to
improve, as you help others to improve their lives as well.
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster
until
I was ready to do so.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

So Preston,
Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any
hanging
out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
—– Original Message —–                       With much
appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started
feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster,
and
I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought
until
last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read
about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and
it
did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:52:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Okay hypothetically… I’m gonna take another 3mg.kg.
Not a word Preston. ;o)

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
Fucking feelings!!! I’m fine though… I’m not gonna make a habit of testing fate like I did last night but the way everything happened was probably just what I needed. Maybe pushing this forward and making this happen for more and more people who suffer is the only way I personally will stay clean long term, who knows? I like that idea actually.  BUT 40 odd days out the chills and diarrhea and lack of energy can wear at you no matter how good your state of mind might be. I guess the fundamental difference between Ibogaine vs. any other detox I’ve done in the past is that if I was going through the physical stuff the same way I still am now ( mild residuals) getting high would be a no brainer but for whatever reason instead of “Make this go away at all costs” its more like ” any day now this is all gonna end and I’m going to feel 100%” NEVER have I had foresight like that before when it came to my addiction or anything else for that matter.
I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days. And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg might put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to this kinda thing, as always, I ask you.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in general issue, just remember you don’t have to be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:48:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fucking feelings!!! I’m fine though… I’m not gonna make a habit of testing fate like I did last night but the way everything happened was probably just what I needed. Maybe pushing this forward and making this happen for more and more people who suffer is the only way I personally will stay clean long term, who knows? I like that idea actually.  BUT 40 odd days out the chills and diarrhea and lack of energy can wear at you no matter how good your state of mind might be. I guess the fundamental difference between Ibogaine vs. any other detox I’ve done in the past is that if I was going through the physical stuff the same way I still am now ( mild residuals) getting high would be a no brainer but for whatever reason instead of “Make this go away at all costs” its more like ” any day now this is all gonna end and I’m going to feel 100%” NEVER have I had foresight like that before when it came to my addiction or anything else for that matter.
I just don’t want to abuse the process. This makes 3 sessions in 40 days. And my plan was to wait another 8 weeks or so and then do another 15 mg/kg and then wait at least a year or so but I’m concerned that another 5 mg/kg might put a…. I don’t know what to think which is why when it comes to this kinda thing, as always, I ask you.

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in general issue, just remember you don’t have to be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

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From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Euphoria is a killer!
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:43:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, my name is Brad, I’ve been slow to “jump-in”. About your father, it is not wrong, in my opinion. Our laws make it illegal and therefore very difficult and troublesome. No it is not wrong for letting anyone have the key to his brain. A question is will you be able to keep his habit, indefinately???  You will hate to be in a position where he needs them and you can not help. Certainly at 70 years old his continued good spirit is more important than whether or not he is taking 4 a day or 8 a day. The DEA has taken it upon themselves to intimidate the Medical profession to the point of fearing to give your father even a minimum of necessary pain medication. Yes Euphoria must be “eliminated”.bf

—–Original Message—–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com [mailto:CallieMimosa@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:25 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Euphoria is a killer!

In a message dated 8/29/2004 12:17:59 AM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
Does it boil down to wanting euphoria

I do miss that euphoria! That is the reason I loved opiates or love opiates so much!
My Dad had Prostate cancer that is responding well to treatment, really well. His bloodwork is all back in normal ranges and his treatments are over for now. His Doc cut out his Lortab 7.5’s. My Dad is a fucking wreck emotionally! I feel really bad for him. He only takes 3 or 4 a day and he is a mess without them.
Well, being the caretaking enabler I am, I have a friend who sells her script monthly so I bought it for my Dad.
When I went in he looked a mess. When I gave him that bottle of Lortabs he became so happy! Almost tearful!
He said he has been so depressed since he ran out. Said he hated everything. I feel so bad for him.
Well, I went over the next day and he was dressed his usual dapper way, his apartment was clean and he was cooking a big pot of white beans. All this change just over a few Lortab.
He said he felt better, had been to church and loved everybody again today! hahaha! I know it isn’t funny but my Dad is almost 70 years old and has cancer!
If giving him 90 Lortab a month will keep him this happy, I plan to buy that script for him every month.
I did talk to him and told him that Lortabs were essentially how I started out. Of course, this is hard for him to believe because all he remembers is the track marks and abscess I had that ‘showed’ him I was an addict.
I may be making a HUGE mistake. I do not want to turn my Dad into an addict but I can’t stand to see him the way he was without them.

Euphoria is addictive! That was my point to start out and I got off telling about Daddy but the euphoria is what has him hooked now!
Life is hard….isn’t it?
Callie

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:37:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey All,thanks for your encouragement,I needed that!Hey Howard what is the general concensus on boosters??When I talked to dmash last she was trying to devalop a patch to wear to ward off cravings,is ib used at intervals to stay sober using boosters?And if so am i a candidate after a slip?Or is there a point after ibogaine where we just have to learn the hard way?Havnt seen any info online about us post noribogaine folks ,just curious-shell

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in general issue, just remember you don’t have to be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I am not Howard but I want to say something here.
I think that no plan in my past may be one of the reasons I relapsed each time I went through treatment. I came out without a physical addiction, feeling pretty good, looking a helluva lot better but soon found myself with all that old shit in my brain and nothing to do with it but use!
I hope someone does put the answer down here! I am going to be paying attention.
Dave and Howard and anyone else out there with significant clean time…..how did you not use when all that old stuff showed back up?

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:28:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/04 11:14:48 AM, mcorcoran27@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a
very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost
40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do you
think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on
the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt with
everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep me
in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a
lot.
Any thoughts? >>

Of course I think 5mg/kg is appropriate in the appropriate circumstances. If
you are more fearful of addicition than you are fearful of life than that is
very good. On the fear in general issue, just remember you don’t have to be
frightened. Part of overcoming fear is knowing what you are frightened of.
Screaming is OK. Crying is OK. Doing good works is OK.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:25:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vancouver – Sandra 604-916-2311

San Diego / T.J. Mexico – Randy 619-225-8000

cw <chowlee@qwest.net> wrote:
Any ideas when this greater availability might be available in the Pacific Northwest, USA?  I’ve spent time in NY and love “The City” with a passion, but am not able to make a trip there right now.
I don’t know if I could emotionally handle the changes from three years ago, anyway.
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion

Hi Preston,

Just read you interview with FM.  It was cool learn more about him.  He called constantly during my treatment, and made my parents feel as calm as possible about what I was doing.

He is really a great guy, and I think that ongoing treatments in the US is a great goal.
I wouln’d mind a second treatment myself in about six months.  Good to know this may be possible.

Sean

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Euphoria is a killer!
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:24:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/29/2004 12:17:59 AM Central Daylight Time, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:
Does it boil down to wanting euphoria

I do miss that euphoria! That is the reason I loved opiates or love opiates so much!
My Dad had Prostate cancer that is responding well to treatment, really well. His bloodwork is all back in normal ranges and his treatments are over for now. His Doc cut out his Lortab 7.5’s. My Dad is a fucking wreck emotionally! I feel really bad for him. He only takes 3 or 4 a day and he is a mess without them.
Well, being the caretaking enabler I am, I have a friend who sells her script monthly so I bought it for my Dad.
When I went in he looked a mess. When I gave him that bottle of Lortabs he became so happy! Almost tearful!
He said he has been so depressed since he ran out. Said he hated everything. I feel so bad for him.
Well, I went over the next day and he was dressed his usual dapper way, his apartment was clean and he was cooking a big pot of white beans. All this change just over a few Lortab.
He said he felt better, had been to church and loved everybody again today! hahaha! I know it isn’t funny but my Dad is almost 70 years old and has cancer!
If giving him 90 Lortab a month will keep him this happy, I plan to buy that script for him every month.
I did talk to him and told him that Lortabs were essentially how I started out. Of course, this is hard for him to believe because all he remembers is the track marks and abscess I had that ‘showed’ him I was an addict.
I may be making a HUGE mistake. I do not want to turn my Dad into an addict but I can’t stand to see him the way he was without them.

Euphoria is addictive! That was my point to start out and I got off telling about Daddy but the euphoria is what has him hooked now!
Life is hard….isn’t it?
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash) Howard?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:14:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard, I have another hypothetical. Say there was a guy who was in a very similar situation to me, responded beautifully to the treatment, almost 40 days out, but now is dealing with a little noise in the head again. Do you think maybe a 5 mil per kilo might do some good? Look, I’m not saying I’m on the fence, or that I want to get high, because last night and how I dealt with everything was probably a very important step in my recovery and will keep me in a good space for some time but it scared me a little. Okay it scared me a lot.
Any thoughts?

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
hEY Dana, you out there?

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
The sheer fact that I’m actually free for the first time in years has been enough for me to stay clean since I got back to NY. Until yesterday. For whatever reason I woke up yesterday morning without that “so happy to be alive and free” feeling and as the day went on it got progressively worse. I was very tired all day, my mood was for shit, then my freakin cell phone goes out due to lack of payment because these past two months have cost me a small fortune and I don’t get paid until Monday at the earliest. so no phone till at least Tuesday, and that was the one thing keeping me close to everything thats going on here in NY.  Not to mention, it just sucks to have something shut off due to non payment, especially now.
So anyway, as the evening went on I smoked a little pot and all that did was make me feel more foggy and more isolated. Then I got home and I found myself saying these things in my head like “I’d love to do a bag right now” Which was very disconcerting because I haven’t had anything like that up to now. Anyway, I had plans to head back downtown but before I decided that I’d go uptown first,  just to make sure the dope was still in Harlem. Who knows why we do these things?  Then as I walked I started to think about everything thats happened over this past 5 or 6 weeks and how much I’ve changed, how much stronger I’ve become. So instead of letting my feet take me in the direction it has for years I made a left instead of a right and went to visit a friend of mine who was treated only 6 days ago  and IMMEDIATELY upon opening the door to there apartment the noise stopped and I knew exactly what I needed to be doing again. Seeing my friend whole again reminded me what a precious gift this really is. Then as soon as I got downstairs  I bumped into a guy I used to buy dope from and he told me he’d give me a ride wherever I was going, he had a freshly rolled blunt and since the choice was a loud and painfully bright train or a free ride and free pot I obliged. Then as I get into the car he starts asking me how I got off so much dope so fast and how I was able to make such a transformation in such a short period of time. I explained the process and he told me that his brother is doing 10 bags a day and wont go into a detox because he says they just don’t work for him. He says he’ll pay whatever it costs to make something happen because this guy is very close to losing his family. So I’m going to do what I have to do to make this happen. It was as if something or someone last night was guiding me, maybe not in the same way it was, this time it was not nearly as soft and gentle, but it was still teaching me, and throwing the perfect sized hurdles in front of me reminding me that I had a choice and showing me just what I needed as long as I allowed it to get through.  Anyway I guess what I’m trying to say is that we are addicts and we will in some respect have this “friend” for life. But a thought for me no longer has to turn into another self destructive act. We have a choice now and some days are gonna suck, just like they do for everyone else, but shooting dope isn’t going to make anything any better. Why can’t we remember this shit when we need it most?
Shelly as slip is just that, a slip, a mistake. You are still blessed with the ability to arrest it now while its still a choice. I’ll be keeping a good though for you. -M.

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice &thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one slip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:05:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hEY Dana, you out there?

mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com> wrote:
The sheer fact that I’m actually free for the first time in years has been enough for me to stay clean since I got back to NY. Until yesterday. For whatever reason I woke up yesterday morning without that “so happy to be alive and free” feeling and as the day went on it got progressively worse. I was very tired all day, my mood was for shit, then my freakin cell phone goes out due to lack of payment because these past two months have cost me a small fortune and I don’t get paid until Monday at the earliest. so no phone till at least Tuesday, and that was the one thing keeping me close to everything thats going on here in NY.  Not to mention, it just sucks to have something shut off due to non payment, especially now.
So anyway, as the evening went on I smoked a little pot and all that did was make me feel more foggy and more isolated. Then I got home and I found myself saying these things in my head like “I’d love to do a bag right now” Which was very disconcerting because I haven’t had anything like that up to now. Anyway, I had plans to head back downtown but before I decided that I’d go uptown first,  just to make sure the dope was still in Harlem. Who knows why we do these things?  Then as I walked I started to think about everything thats happened over this past 5 or 6 weeks and how much I’ve changed, how much stronger I’ve become. So instead of letting my feet take me in the direction it has for years I made a left instead of a right and went to visit a friend of mine who was treated only 6 days ago  and IMMEDIATELY upon opening the door to there apartment the noise stopped and I knew exactly what I needed to be doing again. Seeing my friend whole again reminded me what a precious gift this really is. Then as soon as I got downstairs  I bumped into a guy I used to buy dope from and he told me he’d give me a ride wherever I was going, he had a freshly rolled blunt and since the choice was a loud and painfully bright train or a free ride and free pot I obliged. Then as I get into the car he starts asking me how I got off so much dope so fast and how I was able to make such a transformation in such a short period of time. I explained the process and he told me that his brother is doing 10 bags a day and wont go into a detox because he says they just don’t work for him. He says he’ll pay whatever it costs to make something happen because this guy is very close to losing his family. So I’m going to do what I have to do to make this happen. It was as if something or someone last night was guiding me, maybe not in the same way it was, this time it was not nearly as soft and gentle, but it was still teaching me, and throwing the perfect sized hurdles in front of me reminding me that I had a choice and showing me just what I needed as long as I allowed it to get through.  Anyway I guess what I’m trying to say is that we are addicts and we will in some respect have this “friend” for life. But a thought for me no longer has to turn into another self destructive act. We have a choice now and some days are gonna suck, just like they do for everyone else, but shooting dope isn’t going to make anything any better. Why can’t we remember this shit when we need it most?
Shelly as slip is just that, a slip, a mistake. You are still blessed with the ability to arrest it now while its still a choice. I’ll be keeping a good though for you. -M.

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice &thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one slip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:05:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shelley, I agree with you. No need o beat yourself up for reacting in your ‘normal’ manner. I think it is great you recognized the problem so fast! If we didn’t make mistakes we would never learn. And staying clean has to be a learning process, it is not our normal behavior therefore we have to have a learning period.
I am happy you shared! Mark, Sean and Preston can now be alert as to what they might expect. Thanks for sharing!
Callie

From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re:Oops-i slipped!. (there is a bit of a crash)
Date: August 29, 2004 at 11:56:35 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The sheer fact that I’m actually free for the first time in years has been enough for me to stay clean since I got back to NY. Until yesterday. For whatever reason I woke up yesterday morning without that “so happy to be alive and free” feeling and as the day went on it got progressively worse. I was very tired all day, my mood was for shit, then my freakin cell phone goes out due to lack of payment because these past two months have cost me a small fortune and I don’t get paid until Monday at the earliest. so no phone till at least Tuesday, and that was the one thing keeping me close to everything thats going on here in NY.  Not to mention, it just sucks to have something shut off due to non payment, especially now.
So anyway, as the evening went on I smoked a little pot and all that did was make me feel more foggy and more isolated. Then I got home and I found myself saying these things in my head like “I’d love to do a bag right now” Which was very disconcerting because I haven’t had anything like that up to now. Anyway, I had plans to head back downtown but before I decided that I’d go uptown first,  just to make sure the dope was still in Harlem. Who knows why we do these things?  Then as I walked I started to think about everything thats happened over this past 5 or 6 weeks and how much I’ve changed, how much stronger I’ve become. So instead of letting my feet take me in the direction it has for years I made a left instead of a right and went to visit a friend of mine who was treated only 6 days ago  and IMMEDIATELY upon opening the door to there apartment the noise stopped and I knew exactly what I needed to be doing again. Seeing my friend whole again reminded me what a precious gift this really is. Then as soon as I got downstairs  I bumped into a guy I used to buy dope from and he told me he’d give me a ride wherever I was going, he had a freshly rolled blunt and since the choice was a loud and painfully bright train or a free ride and free pot I obliged. Then as I get into the car he starts asking me how I got off so much dope so fast and how I was able to make such a transformation in such a short period of time. I explained the process and he told me that his brother is doing 10 bags a day and wont go into a detox because he says they just don’t work for him. He says he’ll pay whatever it costs to make something happen because this guy is very close to losing his family. So I’m going to do what I have to do to make this happen. It was as if something or someone last night was guiding me, maybe not in the same way it was, this time it was not nearly as soft and gentle, but it was still teaching me, and throwing the perfect sized hurdles in front of me reminding me that I had a choice and showing me just what I needed as long as I allowed it to get through.  Anyway I guess what I’m trying to say is that we are addicts and we will in some respect have this “friend” for life. But a thought for me no longer has to turn into another self destructive act. We have a choice now and some days are gonna suck, just like they do for everyone else, but shooting dope isn’t going to make anything any better. Why can’t we remember this shit when we need it most?
Shelly as slip is just that, a slip, a mistake. You are still blessed with the ability to arrest it now while its still a choice. I’ll be keeping a good though for you. -M.

shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice &thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one slip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Oops-i slipped!.
Date: August 29, 2004 at 10:27:38 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey all,need to share that i slipped on wednesday,used about 24 hours,got real sick of that & threw it all out,wish i could say for sure what happened,really the first time i craved after doing ibogaine 3 months ago.I could tell the ibogaine was leaving ,well the noribogaine,that is.I had called the (guerilla) provider & asked for a booster,said i had been feeling more depressed,he suggested nutritional help,i didnt follow up on that.I can always tell when the iboga wears off by my moods,and i get diarrhea for sveral months after dosing,the diarrhea had stopped a couple of weeks ago.i have decided to interpret this event in a positive light,very anti 12 step approach,but if i use shame & oh whats wrong with me,ill only dig myself in deeper,so rather than run amock ,im gonna interpret this as,well im on my own now( in regards to nor ibogaine)gotta be alert for that addict voice &thanks for the knock on the door,my goal is to stay clean & i will!one slip does not an addict make.Kinda hard to write about this but guess we need all prspectives here,humbly shelley

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:02:46 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Charlie,

Letting off steam is much welcomes here.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 8:00:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julian,

Very well put.  Once having “kissed the face of God,” it can be very hard to honest about our motives again in this area.

Sean

From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Music on Gammalyte??
Date: August 29, 2004 at 5:11:45 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,
I hope your after-Ibo experience is still filled with much more joy and
energy, than the other side of the coin.  I hate to be redundant, but it
really has been uplifting, to read about your experience, as it happens.

I know a clinical setting is suggested by most people as the best atmosphere
to do Ibo/Ibogaine, but you mentioned one of the biggest factors (but not
the only) that make me want to do my treatment at home.  I want my cats to
be with me to share in the experience with me, and for me to ask guidance
from if I get lost in my vision.  My cats are my favorite people.
May I wish much peace and love to you, and all,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Music on Gammalyte??

just turn off the monitor, that would shed too much light on the
subject… as it were.<

My lovely cats continued to “let the light in” so to speak by doing such
kind and generous actions as stepping on my keyboard or mouse and setting
off the still-turned on monitor-cause we’re all such stoners we never
thought to actually turn it off, and by stepping on the blackout curtains
we
hung in the windows and letting lazerbeams blast me in my closed by
extremely light-sensitive eyeballs.
I love my cats.
Peace and love to all,
Preston

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine and Meat
Date: August 29, 2004 at 2:33:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston.  Your remark that you have an aversion to meat after ibogaine interests me a lot, since I remember, even before my ibo trips meat would interest me much less.  However, I wanted to become a vegetarian and found iboga somehow made it easier.  I am wondering if most folks find meat less interesting after ibogaine or is it just folks who sort of want to eat less of it, find it easier to abstain.
It’s taken me years, but I am finally about 75% vegan, and feel much “cleaner” in my body without animal products in it very much.  I still crave meat but it comes and goes and if I do give in to it, I don’t seem to want it again for quite a while and it sort of disgusts me after the first few bites.
Just wondering?
Best,  Sandy

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From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:46:52 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Since I was 18 (I’m 41 now), I have been to treatment for, and successfully recovered from being a hard core alcoholic (+misc experiments, pot, shrooms, etc), for 8 years anyway, started drinking again as well as being an obsessive crack smoker, and after a few years more of abuse, treatment, clean & sober for another 8 years.  That brings me up to the opiate abuse of the past 5-6 years, where I managed to stay clean, by using Suboxone, for 5 weeks, followed by relapse.
In the past 25 years, I’ve seriously tried quitting smoking (tobacco); I lasted four weeks when in my early 20’s, and a total of 13 days, about 5 years ago.  Despite the pain and hell of opiate withdrawal, I know I can kick opiates long term (5 days on Suboxone today), before I can say the same for smokes.
This is one of the major factors that encourage me about doing a serious Ibo treatment.  I know there’s no guarantee, but if I could quit either at this point, it would be miracle enough; to get my head “broken open” to the point where I could happily stay away from both, would mean more to me than I can express … but I’m sure many have a good idea anyway.
Thanks to all, for letting me blow off steam,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: Allison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 2:32 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…

I agree that its harder to quit smoking than using opiates but I figure if we are strong enough to do one than we are strong enough to do anything we want.  (the word being want).  Where there is a will there is a way.  Best wishes.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 28 August 2004 1:43:20 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…

I can’t remember what day  for me it is anymore so no more of that day 29 day 30 shit.  All I do know is this has been the longest time I’ve not been under the influence of dope in one form or another. I quit smoking on Tuesday and believe it or not I’m finding its harder to stop somking that it is for me to not shoot dope, a lot harder. But I think one of the gifts I got from my ibogaine experience was the ability to exert some kind of impulse control, something I could never do in the past, which has made it a million times easier. This feeling of not wanting to harm my body anymore is just so different than anything I’ve ever felt before. I see myself getting stronger and looking better everyday and the motivation I get from that is tremendous. So much more profound than the illusion of dope.  A REAL warmth.
Thanks. -M.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
IS EVERYBODY ON THIS LIST INSANE? OF COURSE AND QUITE PROUD OF IT!!
julian

Do you Yahoo!?
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From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:28:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Any ideas when this greater availability might be available in the Pacific Northwest, USA?  I’ve spent time in NY and love “The City” with a passion, but am not able to make a trip there right now.
I don’t know if I could emotionally handle the changes from three years ago, anyway.
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion

Hi Preston,

Just read you interview with FM.  It was cool learn more about him.  He called constantly during my treatment, and made my parents feel as calm as possible about what I was doing.

He is really a great guy, and I think that ongoing treatments in the US is a great goal.
I wouln’d mind a second treatment myself in about six months.  Good to know this may be possible.

Sean

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:16:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ms iboga. I am Julian and am currently on methadone. I think it is difficult to really advise you as to the best means to an end for you since it is an unknown. In other words, why are you so desperate to get off meth? I don’t mean the usual shit we all have to deal with re policy of clinics because most of the reasons people want out of meth exist with heroin but worse. I would like to ask you a question but need you to be extremely honest. Does it boil down to wanting euphoria? I just wrote a message about this because I’ve never met one person (yet) that complained too much about meth until the high, the buzz stopped. I won’t even talk about others. ME! Meth was God’s piss to me but as it began to work on my body as it is intended and the euphoria stopped, I was disappointed! As a matter of fact, I thought I should go to England because I could get dope or meth-my choice(at least it was back then, I don’t know if it is still this way).

I am just saying that it is very important for you to be honest with yourself about what your goal is. What your end is. Your means to that will probably answer itself at that point. If it is about missing euphoria, Man do I understand!! If it really is solely about getting off meth, then detox slowly with your clinic. Callie did ask some good questions. What is your history with drugs? How old are you and how long have you been using? What’s your dose?

One last note. There are other fast detoxes besides Ibogaine. I am not recommending them, just stating a fact that they exist. Essentially you are put to sleep and flooded with some antagonist like narcan et al. Your body goes into severe and instant withdrawal but you are in a deep sleep for this period. From the research I have done, it has a nominal success rate. Hey, let’s face it, this is one mother fucker of an illness, injury or choice! It can work but you really need to talk with Doctors about this. It is a desperate choice of detox.

So, think hard about what really is going on inside you. The answer is probably there as well.

Sincerely,
Julian

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:12:09 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:56:57 PM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

P.S. Howard, I have a question. I am sure you have thought about this
approach but the lack of incentive due to small profits from Ibogaine use
could be offset by it’s use with opiates in chronic pain management cases.
Of course
I am referring to pretty small amounts but if IBO undoes ‘addiction’ and also
lowers one’s tolerance to opiates, couldn’t it be touted as a useful
supplement
when administered with opiate medication? It would keep the patient’s need
for increasing dosages to a minimum and would (could?)prevent addiction! What
do you think?

Julian,

Ibogaine ability to potentiate opiate analgesia was one of the earliest
discoveries in the modern ibogaine period.  jurg Schneider, a Ciba pharmacologist
who went on to become the President of Dupont’s  biochemicals division made the
discovery in the 1950s.

Pharmaceutical companies do not want to develop molecules found in nature and
for whatever reason, they apparently don’t want to develop any of the iboga
alkaloids that may have a potential to effect drug dependence.  If iboga
alkaloids were out there to be used as an adjunct to pain management you can bet
your bottom dollar there would be off label uses galore.  I think that one of the
area the folks who are setting up the underground railroad for ibogaine
treatments have to consider is forming alliances with the pain patient rights
groups.  And that has to be done be getting ibogaine to pain management patients.
On my part I will initiate contact with pain management organizations for
political actions issues but, I’m simply not going to be among the front line
troops dosing patients:  Been there, done that.

For those of you who cannot get to the Harm Reduction Conference in New
Orleans in November, I will have my presentation up on the Ibogaine Dossier and I
think that will give you some understanding of the historical precedents that
have already been established for movements of this kind: Those offering
freedom rather than slavery and self determination rather than blind obedience.  You
are so right Julian.  The questions is how do we make it so.

Howard

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From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 29, 2004 at 1:07:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I sure hope I end up at a clinic (or similar), to find out if I would take
the booster, as necessary.
I went back on Suboxone this past Monday night, after taking my last Oxy,
late the night before. Feeling better now, but don’t really care much for
the Suboxone, although it does work wonders for many people, maybe being on
such high doses of Oxy (20+, 80mg a day), with a little H and Coke mixed in,
is just too much for the Sub to take me all the way out of withdrawal.  At
least major relief comes after about half a week or so … but the fatigue
seems to stay for ever.
Damn! I want an affordable, safe, reliable way to get an Iboga/Ibogaine
treatment; and I will find one.  Sooner, rather than later, I hope.
Preston, as well as everyone, thank you for helping keep the dream alive for
those of us who want to take the jump.  I hope your lives continue to
improve, as you help others to improve their lives as well.
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 2:50 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster
until
I was ready to do so.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

So Preston,
Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any hanging
out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
—– Original Message —–                       With much
appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started
feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster, and
I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought
until
last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read
about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and it
did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 29, 2004 at 12:55:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This physical/metaphysical doctrine about IBO is one of finest I have ever read re: all the substances I have been studying or researching as of late. I am impressed by the amount of data both scientific and anecdotal.

Thank You to all concerned,
Julian

P.S. Howard, I have a question. I am sure you have thought about this approach but the lack of incentive due to small profits from Ibogaine use could be offset by it’s use with opiates in chronic pain management cases. Of course I am referring to pretty small amounts but if IBO undoes ‘addiction’ and also lowers one’s tolerance to opiates, couldn’t it be touted as a useful supplement when administered with opiate medication? It would keep the patient’s need for increasing dosages to a minimum and would (could?)prevent addiction! What do you think?

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 11:24:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie asked >Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?<

Yes, but I began using poppy tea just a week or so into the final kicking
stage, when I finally stopped drinking my take-homes, then dilaudids a few
months down the road, after the poppy tea stopped doing anything for my pain
whatsoever
But, while I was not exactly locked into bed for a month while kicking
(though hell, it felt like at least a month that I was laid up and useless
when kicking- but it wasn’t, it was more like 2 weeks- but keep in mind I
began taking other opiates fairly soon into the kicking, so I can’t honestly
say I kicked completely at any point, though I do think I prolonged it
somewhat by substituting weak and pathetic poppy tea for methadone- then
anyway.) I did take lots of baths and such, and smoked a lot of pot while
kicking methadone. Kicking methadone even in the manner I did it in 2000
sucked big time.
And you are correct Julie in that kicking (kicking anything really, not
just methadone), and trying to actually do work and stuff is very difficult-
I completely stopped writing for a month or so at that time, until I had
enough strength to pick it up again.
Peace and love all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 11:12:04 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

CAllie wrote >I do not mean to hurt your feelings but it is really hard for
me to believe that someone who has any experience with heroin would get on
Methadone then go back on heroin to get off Methadone!!!  BAD, BAD, BAD
decision!! Heroin is illegal, street junk and you are just compounding your
problems if you go back to it.<

Except that heroin is MUCH easier to kick when one finally does decide to
kick, and much more pleasent in the body and brain. Also, and please
remember that I am speaking in my own case, I never did get “high” from
taking my methadone, not even at the over-a-hundred dosages I was on at one
point. Also, so long as one is not arrested, or does not buy bad dope, with
heroin one does not have to deal with power-trippin’ counselors and nurses
and such at the meth clinic, nor does one have to stand in li…well,
actually, I’ve been in many heroin lines, so never mind on that particular
point- and I certainly had to deal with power-trippin’ hoods who would treat
me like shit for buying their heroin. Weird.
Anyway, I’m not sure I agree with the “compounding problems” angle,
other than for the glaring point that the police are more likely to arrest
us for using illegal heroin than for using legal methadone.
Hmmmm.
This is a hard one for me to decide on, because I can totally relate to
the idea that meth is BAD BAD Bad and heroin really isn’t so BAd, BAD baD.
Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H

In a message dated 8/28/2004 11:46:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
I am just wondering: when I stop taking
methadone, but start taking another opiate, am I just
compounding my addiction?
Hell yes!! Julie, I really think the heroin is a BAD, BAD, BAD idea! Any way
you do it is a BAD, BAD, BAD idea!
How old are you Julie? How long have you been using? I do not mean to hurt
your feelings but it is really hard for me to believe that someone who has
any experience with heroin would get on Methadone then go back on heroin to
get off Methadone!!!  BAD, BAD, BAD decision!! Heroin is illegal, street
junk and you are just compounding your problems if you go back to it. Did
you do heroin before?
Sorry, but I will say it again…..BAD, BAD, BAD decision. Don’t do it!
Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Harlem reactions
Date: August 28, 2004 at 10:56:49 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
A little further update- apparently the response in Harlem to the recent
ibogaine influx has been a whole 180 degrees different than what Dana and
Howard experienced 10 years ago- there has beena  lot of interest shown with
lots of people both wanting to get involved from the treatment end of things
and to get treated themselves.
There’s not much more data at this point, other than for the fact that
so far as I know, this is going to happen not only in Harlem but all over
the country very soonly. Let’s hope anyway.
Peace and love to all,
Preston

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question about thyroid and IBO – Doctor?
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:28:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Where is a doctor when you need one to answer a question.  See below.
Anything I would tell you would be guess.

Howard

In a message dated 8/28/04 6:18:52 PM, trtye@gci.net writes:

Howard, perhaps you can tell me (or anyone else) why ibogaine might be
contraindicated for someone with a thyroid condition? What about Barrett’s
Esophagus (bad case of G.E.R.D.)? What if these conditions have been
stabilized
for some time with medications?

For instance, Iboga Therapy House states in their FAQ that they will not
treat anyone with …. [a long list of health conditions] … which include
thyroid problems, gastrointestinal problems and psychiatric problems.
Wouldn’t
that last one eliminate just about all of us?

I know they have to protect themselves and I greatly respect what they
do, but I am curious as to the medical reasons why you wouldn’t treat someone
with hypothyroid (like me) or possibly acid reflux (Barrett’s esophagus
– me too) and of course psychiatric problems (nothing interesting, just
common old clinical depression).

Thanks for answers and/or directions to someone who can answer. Good thoughts
to all of you, Terrell

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H- you guys are probably right
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:21:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Sean, and everyone else!  I appreciate your
responses greatly..

Julie

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From: trtye <trtye@gci.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Question about thyroid and IBO – Howard?
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:18:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard, perhaps you can tell me (or anyone else) why ibogaine might be contraindicated for someone with a thyroid condition? What about Barrett’s Esophagus (bad case of G.E.R.D.)? What if these conditions have been stabilized for some time with medications?

For instance, Iboga Therapy House states in their FAQ that they will not treat anyone with …. [a long list of health conditions] … which include thyroid problems, gastrointestinal problems and psychiatric problems. Wouldn’t that last one eliminate just about all of us?

I know they have to protect themselves and I greatly respect what they do, but I am curious as to the medical reasons why you wouldn’t treat someone with hypothyroid (like me) or possibly acid reflux (Barrett’s esophagus – me too) and of course psychiatric problems (nothing interesting, just common old clinical depression).
Thanks for answers and/or directions to someone who can answer. Good thoughts to all of you, Terrell
From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Cock’s Liquors
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:15:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jason,

Is that you in those pictures??  Looks like you’re
having fun….haha

You’re right, H probably isn’t the way to go, but Ibo
didn’t completely purge my meth addiction, like I
thought it would.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.  If that’s you in
the pictures, I gotta ask ya- HOW WAS IT?????

Julie

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Referral
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:07:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

where do u live?

Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
From: bmali@verizon.net

hi
do you have any suggestions / comments . i have so far found 5 other places . one is in canada which does not charge but traveling plus stay would make it about 1k . another is offshore near florida which will be under 2.5k . next is in mexico close to san diego and will be about 3.5k or so . even more expensive is in carribean run by a professor . plus ( long term ) here is the data will go in her research and to larger scientific community . last one is in amsterdam which use to cost 1k plus traveling . the way i am thinking is to convince this friend to start with a week long out-patient detox based on Buprenorphine . and follow up at least for a month with counseling and such . she if follows through may be more aware and be helped better with ibogaine . at least that is my reasoning . i still has to convince here , get here in right mental state and find he least expensive but good ibogaine program.
thanks again
badri
if you prefer i will call you . let me know what is good time for you.

On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:40 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

hi
i am wondering if you can help . i have a friend who is a heroin addict . she did methadone for a while and went back to heroin . upon research i came across ibogaine and dana’s name ( among others ) . i understand he is a sort of gate keeper to help . can you either forward my email to him or send me an email address . also helpful will be if you know of any similar help contact in DC / Baltimore area . i am by profession a biochemist and every thing i read makes sense to me to the extent it is worth  trial ( along with serious counseling help ).
thanks for your attention.
badri

Where are you located? It makes a difference as to what treatment facilities are closest to you. You can call me at 212-677-4899.

Dana/cnw

” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine
Very bad isn’t dead (“Things can get worse.”)-Haitian Proverbs
“A truth that’s told with bad intent

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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Referral
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:02:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: bmali@verizon.net

hi
do you have any suggestions / comments . i have so far found 5 other places . one is in canada which does not charge but traveling plus stay would make it about 1k . another is offshore near florida which will be under 2.5k . next is in mexico close to san diego and will be about 3.5k or so . even more expensive is in carribean run by a professor . plus ( long term ) here is the data will go in her research and to larger scientific community . last one is in amsterdam which use to cost 1k plus traveling . the way i am thinking is to convince this friend to start with a week long out-patient detox based on Buprenorphine . and follow up at least for a month with counseling and such . she if follows through may be more aware and be helped better with ibogaine . at least that is my reasoning . i still has to convince here , get here in right mental state and find he least expensive but good ibogaine program.
thanks again
badri
if you prefer i will call you . let me know what is good time for you.

On Aug 23, 2004, at 6:40 PM, Dana Beal wrote:

hi
i am wondering if you can help . i have a friend who is a heroin addict . she did methadone for a while and went back to heroin . upon research i came across ibogaine and dana’s name ( among others ) . i understand he is a sort of gate keeper to help . can you either forward my email to him or send me an email address . also helpful will be if you know of any similar help contact in DC / Baltimore area . i am by profession a biochemist and every thing i read makes sense to me to the extent it is worth  trial ( along with serious counseling help ).
thanks for your attention.
badri

Where are you located? It makes a difference as to what treatment facilities are closest to you. You can call me at 212-677-4899.

Dana/cnw

” lord , make me chaste , but not yet ” St.Augstine
Very bad isn’t dead (“Things can get worse.”)-Haitian Proverbs
“A truth that’s told with bad intent

From: Jason Bursey <jasonburseyiboga@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Cock’s Liquors
Date: August 28, 2004 at 6:56:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“…then we’re nothing but the nerds they say we are.”

Here’s some interesting links I’m sure you  have all seen before, but just in case I’m not the only one here still learning.

By the way, I would personally like to hear more from the different providers.  I, for one, am very interested in what they have learned.

http://ibogaine.org/horsley.html (treated through, Hattie)

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/2869/gabon.html (nice pics)

———————————————————————————————–
Regarding heroin vs. methadone.  This is only my opinion, but if heroin was legal in a clinic setting, I’d say go for it.  But it’s not, and so black market “gee, hope this isn’t a hot shot”, spend too much time scoring or attempting to score, etc.  Plus, at least for me, compulsion seems allot harder to keep in control with heroin rather then ‘done.  But you are right, heroin is a short acting and methadone a long acting.  So what.  Both can be kicked with ibo.  Especially if starting new business, why throw heroin into the mix?  And I am also curious, why stop Methadone Maint in the first place, do you have a warrant or something that means you must stop methadone this moment or else?  I’m curious why you don’t have the time to save for ibo treatment.  At least get your business footing on the ground first, let it find it’s legs first?  You would know better then me.  I think you know the right path, although, it may not be the easy one.  Or keep asking more peope, perhaps one will give you an answer you want them to give : )
Talk soon.
J

Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells
Date: August 28, 2004 at 5:26:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

O’Hearn injected rats with 100mg/kg of ibogaine and observed the damage to or death
of Purkinje cells in the brain.  Helen Molinari, a colleague of Glick found
that 40mg/kg of ibogaine caused no Purkinje cell injury and Xu and Ali out of
the FDA laboratory at the National Toxicological Research Center found that
there was no damage to Purkinje cells in the brains of rats at 25mg/kg ibogaine by
injection.

100 mg/kg is like 4X the highest dose (25mg/kg) for opiate interuption, and from what I understand a lot of providers are dosing more in the 22mg/kg range.

100mgs/kg would be quite a dose to ingest, and most likely toxic on many levels.

I feel sorry for those poor rats who suffer in the name of science.

a blessing for the ibogarodents!

_.dh

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard
Date: August 28, 2004 at 2:58:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/28/04 12:40:07 PM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

Which one is the best one for iboga treatment between H, Morphine and Met.

They are all good if you know what you are doing.  The best for any one
person is what they are used to working with.  Combinations of HCl, total alkaloid
extract and root bark are not unheard of.  Considering that different people
absorb and metabolize drugs differently, what can I tell you?  A shaman would
experiment with everything.  There is no one right answer.  There, see how I am
simplified your life.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 2:03:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:46:59 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

I have a quick question for you all- I am pretty
desperate to get off methadone, and am considering
weening myself with H( no shooting, just sniffing or
smoking).  I am just wondering: when I stop taking
methadone, but start taking another opiate, am I just
compounding my addiction?  When the meth starts to
break off from my receptors, will the H bond with it,
to make it last longer?

I am pretty ignorant about all this, and would
appreciate anyone’s input.  If this is a stupid
question, I apologize.

Do not go back to heroin use.  There are simply too many dangers involved.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 2:02:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie,

As has been discussed d here in the last few days actually, weaning off of meth with His a really bad idea.  Please don’t go that route!

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 28, 2004 at 2:00:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Julie,

The water warning was really important for me.  By being really hydrated going into it, I also did not feel the need for water until 12 hours into the trip.  Anything which would cause me to stir from my flat on the back position made me real queasy, so I was really grateful to Howard for the water advice.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:52:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Hannah,

Glad you feel at home on this list.  It really is very cool that we can say what we really feel here without jargon and fear of group shaming. BTW I was never on that list, but will check it out just to see what’s up with it.

Have a day,
Sean

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:39:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Howard,

Which one is the best one for iboga treatment between H, Morphine and Met.

(sory about annoying you by my questions)

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Julie
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:34:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

No offense taken- I appreciate your candor.  It is
important to be honest, especially in matters of
potential life and death.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:29:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Howard,

I don’t care what they are saying. I’m always behind the dice. Most
important thing is for me: practical benefits of Iboga and there is no doubt
that it’s working.

Those days I’m preparing for my next Iboga cure.

What is the “best” dose for Iboga cure. What if rootbark and pure Iboga.
Would you tell me that what is the suitable anti-emetic (against to nousea)
with Iboga.

Thank you

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:43:54 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

What is the story about Purkinje Cells and what is that mean “100mg/kg
Iboga cause degeneration  in Purkinje cells rats brain even a single use”
And would you tell me what is Purkinje Cell

Do a google.com search for Purkinje cell.  Marc Molliver and Elizabeth
O’Hearn injected rats with 100mg/kg of ibogaine and observed the damage to
or death
of Purkinje cells in the brain.  Helen Molinari, a colleague of Glick
found
that 40mg/kg of ibogaine caused no Purkinje cell injury and Xu and Ali out
of
the FDA laboratory at the National Toxicological Research Center found
that
there was no damage to Purkinje cells in the brains of rats at 25mg/kg
ibogaine by
injection.  Whether such Purkinje cell damage occurs in humans is unknown
and
if so, there is no determination as to whether the effect would be
significant or beneficial or detrimental to the subject.  Other
researchers have
indicated that alcohol use causes much greater damage and other
researchers still
that withdrawal causes greater damage.

So welcome to the ibogaine neurotoxicity crap shoot (throwing the dice and
seeing what happens).

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:25:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Great post and info! Thanks Howard (and google)

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:23:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Callie,

I’m 26.  I have used opiates for about four years, and
all kinds of drugs( mostly E, ac*d, GHB and grass) for
years before that.  All I know, is that H was way
easier to kick than this sh*t.  Sure, it was a bit
more painful, but so much shorter!

Has anyone been able to actually get off of methadone
without spending a month in bed?  I don’t crave H
anymore; in fact, it kind of repulses me.  But I’ve
heard that Ibo is way more effective for heroin
addiction than for methadone, as meth stays for SO
long in your body.

I know I might sound naive, but I am desperate- I am
starting my own business this fall, and can’t take all
the side effects of opiate withdrawal while trying to
do paperwork or interpersonal stuff.

Julie

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:16:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/28/2004 4:33:25 AM Central Daylight Time, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
Although I remember one night in Erie Pa. waiting in a blizzard for the dope man. I had to keep cleaning off the headlights so he could see me when he got there. I think I saw about a foot of snow fall waiting for that guy. He finally made it too.

hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!! That is so funny! We wouldn’t wait in that snow for an AA meeting or counseling appointment , huh? Hell, I wouldn’t even go to work in weather like that but I, like you would brave any weather for the dope man!! hahahahahaha! Insane? Yes, we are!
hugs to ya! Callie

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:14:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:43:54 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

What is the story about Purkinje Cells and what is that mean “100mg/kg
Iboga cause degeneration  in Purkinje cells rats brain even a single use”
And would you tell me what is Purkinje Cell

Do a google.com search for Purkinje cell.  Marc Molliver and Elizabeth
O’Hearn injected rats with 100mg/kg of ibogaine and observed the damage to
or death
of Purkinje cells in the brain.  Helen Molinari, a colleague of Glick
found
that 40mg/kg of ibogaine caused no Purkinje cell injury and Xu and Ali out
of
the FDA laboratory at the National Toxicological Research Center found
that
there was no damage to Purkinje cells in the brains of rats at 25mg/kg
ibogaine by
injection.  Whether such Purkinje cell damage occurs in humans is unknown
and
if so, there is no determination as to whether the effect would be
significant or beneficial or detrimental to the subject.  Other
researchers have
indicated that alcohol use causes much greater damage and other
researchers still
that withdrawal causes greater damage.

So welcome to the ibogaine neurotoxicity crap shoot (throwing the dice and
seeing what happens).

Howard

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Julie
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:10:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just reread my post and it comes across as smart ass and I do not want you to think I am being a smart ass.
I just really think you are messing up if you go back to heroin.
I have been an addict for 25 plus years, a full blown junkie addict for at least 25 of those years. It is experience talking. I really can’t see any reason for anyone to use heroin, especially if they have Methadone. You will be much better off slowly detoxing from Methadone. If you don’t  have time or money for slow detox you should probably try to be admitted to hospital or treatment for detox.
Heroin is bad news. Methadone was invented to get folks off heroin not the other way around.
There have been several posts discussing this the past few days. Go back and reread them if you can. If you have deleted them I will be happy to resend them to you.
I really hope you will change your mind and consider other options,
hugs to you!
Callie

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 1:02:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/28/2004 11:46:59 AM Central Daylight Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
I am just wondering: when I stop taking
methadone, but start taking another opiate, am I just
compounding my addiction?

Hell yes!! Julie, I really think the heroin is a BAD, BAD, BAD idea! Any way you do it is a BAD, BAD, BAD idea!
How old are you Julie? How long have you been using? I do not mean to hurt your feelings but it is really hard for me to believe that someone who has any experience with heroin would get on Methadone then go back on heroin to get off Methadone!!!  BAD, BAD, BAD decision!! Heroin is illegal, street junk and you are just compounding your problems if you go back to it. Did you do heroin before?
Sorry, but I will say it again…..BAD, BAD, BAD decision. Don’t do it!
Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells
Date: August 28, 2004 at 12:59:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/28/04 11:43:54 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

What is the story about Purkinje Cells and what is that mean “100mg/kg
Iboga cause degeneration  in Purkinje cells rats brain even a single use”
And would you tell me what is Purkinje Cell

Do a google.com search for Purkinje cell.  Marc Molliver and Elizabeth
O’Hearn injected rats with 100mg/kg of ibogaine and observed the damage to or death
of Purkinje cells in the brain.  Helen Molinari, a colleague of Glick found
that 40mg/kg of ibogaine caused no Purkinje cell injury and Xu and Ali out of
the FDA laboratory at the National Toxicological Research Center found that
there was no damage to Purkinje cells in the brains of rats at 25mg/kg ibogaine by
injection.  Whether such Purkinje cell damage occurs in humans is unknown and
if so, there is no determination as to whether the effect would be
significant or beneficial or detrimental to the subject.  Other researchers have
indicated that alcohol use causes much greater damage and other researchers still
that withdrawal causes greater damage.

So welcome to the ibogaine neurotoxicity crap shoot (throwing the dice and
seeing what happens).

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Weening from methadone with H
Date: August 28, 2004 at 12:46:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

I have a quick question for you all- I am pretty
desperate to get off methadone, and am considering
weening myself with H( no shooting, just sniffing or
smoking).  I am just wondering: when I stop taking
methadone, but start taking another opiate, am I just
compounding my addiction?  When the meth starts to
break off from my receptors, will the H bond with it,
to make it last longer?

I am pretty ignorant about all this, and would
appreciate anyone’s input.  If this is a stupid
question, I apologize.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] To Mr. Howard question about Purkinje Cells
Date: August 28, 2004 at 12:43:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Howard,
What is the story about Purkinje Cells and what is that mean “100mg/kg Iboga cause degeneration  in Purkinje cells rats brain even a single use” And would you tell me what is Purkinje Cell

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 28, 2004 at 12:26:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

No, I probably didn’t drink enough water- maybe that
was the problem.  I don’t have any history of
gastrointestinal disorder, unless you count all the
lovely junk-related stuff like flip-flopping between
constipation and the runs.

I managed to get my hands on 20gm of the rootbark
powder, but am a little timid to do it again for a
while.  I am a partial vegetarian-no red meat- but now
I don’t even crave chicken or fish.  I’ll just stick
to my berries and grains, thank you.  🙂

Thank you for your help, Howard,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] google on ibogaine
Date: August 28, 2004 at 11:01:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Searching for ibogaine on google.com one comes upon
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=190192

Log in | Google Answers Home
View Question
Ask a Question
Q: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga ( Answered ,   7 Comments )

Question
Subject: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: zulu500-ga
List Price: $40.00  Posted: 13 Apr 2003 23:08 PDT
Expires: 13 May 2003 23:08 PDT
Question ID: 190192
THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga

Hi,

Please tell me all (well a nice informed summary) that you know about
this wonder plant Ibogaine (and any others if you want)  🙂  where can
I get it, how do I use it and what
does it do??

Thanks!

Answer
Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
Answered By: cynthia-ga on 17 Apr 2003 16:33 PDT
Rated:
Researcher Disclaimer:

Make no mistake, Ibogaine is a dangerous psychedelic drug. Different
people of the same weight and height react differently to ingestion of
the same amount of this refined root bark. Although the drug is
approved for clinical trials as a “Rapid Opiate Detox Treatment” in
the United States, it is a Schedule 1 controlled hallucinogen with “no
known medical use.”

LEGAL STATUS
The US Department of Justice’s Search Page with “Ibogaine” entered:
RESULTS:
http://search.usdoj.gov/compass?scope=Ibogaine+&ui=sr&view-template=dojsimple&
page=1

Erowid’s page on the Legal Status of Ibogaine
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine_law.shtml
Note: International Laws:

…”Australia
Ibogaine may be illegal to possess & sell in Australia, but it does
not appear to be listed in the controlled substances lists (Search
Australian Law). Ibogaine is clearly illegal to import into Australia
without a license, it is “Schedule IV” in the import laws: AU Import
Regulations.

Belgium
Purified ibogaine is restricted. It is unclear whether the T. iboga
root powder is also restricted, but may be.

England
As of late 1998, the Home Office Drug Unit reported that Ibogaine is
not specifically listed in the Controlled Substances List in the UK.
The Medicines Control Agency (MCA) does not recognize Ibogaine as a
drug, but does not that it is credited with having hallucinogenic
properties. This apparently means that it is legal to buy or import
for personal use, but to sell it, administer it to others, or make it
available as a treament would likely be illegal without a
prescription.

Sweden
Unverified. We have heard that purified ibogaine is the equivalent of
a Schedule I drug in Sweden. It is unclear whether the plant T. iboga
is also restricted.

Switzerland
Purified ibogaine is restricted. It is unclear whether the T. iboga
root powder is also restricted, but may be…”

Reference:
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/
…”Ibogaine’s current legal status in the UK, and much of the rest of
the world, is that of an unlicensed, experimental medication, and it
not therefore an offence to possess the drug, though to act as a
distributor may be breaking the law. Ibogaine is a restricted
substance (possession is illegal) in some countries, including the US,
Switzerland, Sweden and Belgium…”
Under no circumstances is it advisable to take Ibogaine alone. Medical
supervision is a requirement. Of all the Ibogaine that is for sale on
the Internet, be cautioned that there are two major categories: weaker
and stronger: weaker being less refined and the stronger being nearly
pure Ibogaine. Even within those categories one could expect wide
deviations of strength.

Reference:
http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/psychedelic.html
…”Not all people have the capacity to metabolize ibogaine into
nor-ibogaine and they are not good candidates for this treatment. We
screen all patients with a blood test to see if this treatment will
work for them. Ibogaine works in 90% of patients and can be dangerous
for the other 10%, either causing toxicity due to high levels. This is
why it is very important to test this enzyme…”

It’s not unusual to be highly nauseated after ingesting Ibogaine. And,
with the correct dose, life as you knew it is forever changed. It is
an incredible mind-expanding experience. It’s ability to pull
repressed memories from your subconscious and present them before you,
eyes closed, as if you are watching a movie, might not be what you are
ready for. If you are not ready to confront your inner demons then
this drug is not for you. After you recall your repressed memories,
the next 12-20 hours of the experience is spent in relative silence
while your mind processes these newly recalled memories. It’s not an
experience you can alter or stop (short of thorazine) once it has
begun. It’s an awful lot to handle, and has been likened to two or
more years of intense psychotherapy, all in 36 hours.

If you are considering using Ibogaine, I recommend you go to one of
the treatment centers outside the United States that offers treatment
in a medical setting with trained professionals. Keep in mind most
people seek Ibogaine treatment for the rapid opiate detox, so any
pages I link to will have that theme. The centers will certainly be
familiar with the “other reasons” for taking Ibogaine and will be able
to accomodate those requests as well. The highest level of caution is
indicated in any endevour with Ibogaine.

Here is a warning from http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/index.htm:
…”There is an inherent level of risk with ibogaine treatment.
Several people are known to have died during treatment, and there may
in truth be many more, given that ibogaine is frequently administered
in surroundings where people may be reluctant to contact the
authorities in the event of something going wrong. Despite much
speculation, some of it from medical professionals, there is simply
nowhere near enough data to draw any realistic conclusions as to why
these deaths have occurred. Taking too much of the drug; using stepped
doses, (ie: half a gram followed by another later on); being
excessively thin; or suffering from liver or heart problems have all
been suggested as dangers. But the truth is – no-one really knows why
people sometimes die when taking ibogaine. No deaths have occurred in
clinical settings, as far as the writer is aware…”

End disclaimer.  *phew*

The University of Miami and the Syracuse University have both held
clinical trials in the past. Because of the nature of Ibogaine: a
one-time use drug, it’s difficult for advocates to find funding for
clinical trials. The big pharmacutical companies don’t want to finance
the refining of a drug that users will likely only take once.
Traditional treatment centers that advocate abstinance, and methadone
clinics, see Ibogaine as a threat to their methods and teachings. The
AA crowd doesn’t like it either.

Reference:

An Introduction to Ibogaine by: Nick Sandberg


…Ibogaine development has been beset with hold-ups for years. The
existing legal disputes may now be close to resolution, but ibogaine
still needs the participation of a pharmaceutical company for it to
make it to the mass market. The business of developing new medications
is solely in the hands of the private sector – the pharmaceutical
corporations – and the problems that drugs companies appear to have
with ibogaine are many.

Firstly, as a drug derived from a natural source, patent options are
more limited than they would be for a drug that can only be created in
the lab. Potentially, this greatly reduces the level of financial
return that the drug could provide, of serious concern considering the
degree of backing needed to bring a new drug to the market. Whilst, in
the West, there are governmental provisions in place to encourage
companies to develop drugs that could be socially useful, to date no
one seems interested in taking advantage of them for ibogaine.

Secondly, ibogaine is not a maintenance drug – it is not taken
repeatedly over a short period of time – and is usually administered
only once. As a general rule, medications developed by the drugs
companies, for whatever purpose, are maintenance drugs, for only
maintenance drugs allow sufficient financial return to justify the
necessary prior outlay on research and development.

Thirdly, industry insiders relate that there are public relations
concerns when developing medications for groups that are negatively
socially marginalized in the way drug addicts have become. Drug
companies, like most modern corporations, are acutely image-sensitive
and there are thus concerns that developing medications for addicts
could bring about a deterioration in their overall market value.

Finally, some believe that bringing an addiction medication of
ibogaine’s potential to the market may present “conflict of interest”
problems, of dubious moral worth, to other corporate bodies involved
with the sale of licensed recreational substances such as alcohol or
tobacco…”

Ibogaine is currently being studied in the United States and other
countries for it’s anti-addiction properties. After a single
treatment, heroin addicts report absolutely no withdrawl symptoms, and
more remarkably, no desire for heroin. This effect appears to last for
weeks to months. It’s thought to fill the same receptors in the brain
that heroin (and methadone) fill, but for a much longer time. In
short, it appears that Ibogaine “resets” the addiction clock back to a
pre-addiction state. When being used for it’s rapid opiate detox
properties, more than one treatment may be indicated, however the
treatments are spaced months or even years apart.

Here’s an ‘ad’ for Ibogaine Rapid 24 hour Detox:
http://www.relfe.com/ibogaine.html

The other, even more remarkable effect of Ibogaine is it’s
“dream-creating” properties. Although a user remains in their normal
ego-state and is able to think, talk, and answer questions about what
they are experiencing, an overlayment of the dream-state occurs.
Experiencing the recollection of your repressed memories is
accomplished without the usual uncomfortable feelings associated with
remembering traumatic events. It’s done as an observer, but still in
the first person.

Ibogaine is one of twelve alkaloids obtained from the root of the
plant Tabernanthe iboga found in West Africa. There is a picture of
the plant here:

Tabernanthe iboga – (plant source of ibogaine)
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/

…more pictures:
http://www.iboga.org/fr/ibkph_2.htm

It has been used for centuries by the Bwiti natives of West Africa in
‘coming of age’ rituals. The entire tribe participates during these
celebrations.

The Religion of Iboga …or the Bwiti of the Fangs
http://www.ibogaine.org/barabe.html
…”The initiation begins with a bath in a forest stream while the
cithara is heard. The candidates receive a handful of freshly picked
iboga roots, a set quantity chosen for each of them. They use small
baskets of woven rattan, the size of saucers, manufactured for this
purpose and tied together three by three. The young sometimes show a
certain reluctance to chew these roots, and they may be given the
contents of a gourd to drink, consisting of water in which the iboga
root has been macerated. The boy often vomits, but that is a good sign
because “you must vomit (everything) up to the first drop of milk”,
meaning that you must totally reject earthly life to accede to another
life. Very quickly, highly colored images appear, the initiates lose
consciousness of the outer world and fall into a deep sleep on a mat
laid out on the ground. The state of lethargy depends on the dose of
iboga ingested and may last 4 to 5 days during which time no food is
taken. The purpose of absorbing this “beverage of bitterness” is to be
able to see the beyond thanks to the hallucinogenic properties of
iboga, to communicate with God and the ancestors, and to die on this
earth in order to be reborn closer to God…..Iboga is the very source
of the bwiti religion, commonly called “religion of Eboga”. Iboga
gives knowledge of the beyond through the spiritual death, in advance
of its time, that it produces. By the visions that it brings about,
ritual mastication of iboga permits contact with ancestors and gods:
Mebeghe is the name of the divinity in the Fangs, a supreme being
without mother or father or spouse. It engenders the three divinities
by bursting the divine primordial egg…”

Clearly, the spiritual properties are what the Bwiti natives use Iboga
for. Ibogaine was “discovered” as an anti-addiction treatment (in the
US) by Howard Lotsof, who in the early 1960’s took some Ibogaine that
a friend gave him for fun.

Reference:
Ibogaine as a possible cure for drug addiction?
http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-224.HTML
…”In 1956 CIBA-Geigy (a major drug company) found Ibogaine
potentiates morphine analgesia, but did not pursue it. In the early
1960s, American Howard Lotsof, then a heroin addict himself, happened
to be offered a dose of ibogaine, with the promise that it would get
him really high. He had a remarkable time, seeing visions and being
taken back through his personal history, but what really amazed him
was that afterwards his desire for heroin had vanished – with no
withdrawal pains, and no effort of will…”

That begins the history of Ibogaine in the US. For more, I direct you
here:

IBOGAINE: A BRIEF HISTORY – INCLUDING RESEARCH CONDUCTED IN 1995 &
1996
http://www.ibogaine.org/ibo-hist.html

…and here:

An Introduction to Ibogaine

An Introduction to Ibogaine by: Nick Sandberg


…”Ibogaine is a psychedelic drug. A better description of the
effects of Ibogaine would be oneirophrenic or “dream creating”. To a
bystander it would appear that a person on ibogaine was simply lying
down in a state of partial sleep having dreams. Some patients report
their experience as if they were watching a movie of their life or
they were able to reorganize the file cabinets in their brains.
Ibogaine allows someone to see their true self and to re-experience
past events and repressed memories in a detached way without the
emotional pain often associated with these memories. Every person’s
experience is as unique as the individual; insights into the
unconscious might be a valuable foundation for a future without drugs.
Not everyone who ingests ibogaine has a vivid visual experience, in
fact only about 50% of patients experience visuals. Some people sleep
throughout the duration of the drug’s effects, and others experience
only series of rapid thoughts. It must be kept in mind that the
anti-addictive and withdrawal diminishing properties of ibogaine still
work on these patients. Ibogaine is non-addictive…”

The Ibogaine experience begins with this document:
How to safely use Ibogaine: http://www.ibogaine.org/ibofound.html

[…as a side note, I have seen a document on dosage and body-weight,
no time right now, but ask for a clarification and I’ll lovcate it for
you.]

….and here:
Manual for Ibogaine Therapy – Screening, Safety, Monitoring &
Aftercare – First Revision by Howard S. Lotsof & Boaz Wachtel
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html
Be sure to read the safety material, and specifically the exclusion
material.

EXPERIENCES ON IBOGAINE

I Begin Again
http://www.ibeginagain.org/experience.html
A web site with Ibogaine users experiences.

Reflections on an ibogaine experience
http://www.ibogaine.org/junkie.html

Tripping on iboga
http://www.salon.com/travel/feature/1999/11/03/iboga/
In Gabon, a disenchanted journalist embarks on a hallucinogenic tribal
rite.

IBOGAINE RESOURCES

An Online Book:

The Ibogaine Story
http://www.cures-not-wars.org/ibogaine/iboga.html

THE LATEST IBOGAINE DOSSIER
http://www.nettuno.it/electric-italy/ibogaine.htm

The Ibogaine Association
http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/contact.html
Contact page for a clinic that is 20 minutes from San Diego.

Ibogaine.org
http://www.ibogaine.org/
Home of The Ibogaine Dossier, where a lot of these links come from,
and a great starting point for more information.

Ibogaine Association
http://www.ibogaine-therapy.net/

Ibogaine Treatment
http://www.ibogaine.org/treatment.html

Some [Treatment] Considerations
http://www.ibogaine.org/considerations.html

Two Ibogaine MAILING LISTS:

Mindvox’s Ibogaine mailing list:
ibogaine-subscribe@mindvox.com

The Ibogaine Mailing List
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine
Sign up here.

CONTACT INFORMATION

Ibogaine – Resources for journalists (how to contact researchers)

Ibogaine – Resources for journalists


These are the folks that can direct you to the best (safest) treatment
resources available.

AVAILABILITY
http://ethnogarden.yage.net/ibogabark.htm
Sells iboga and iboga extracts, but does not ship to the US for legal
reasons. I can find more, however I doubt any ship to the US. You’ll
need a remailing service in one of the countries they DO ship to.
And… DON’T DO IT ALONE!!

OTHER COOL STUFF I RAN ACROSS

The Ibogaine Gallery
http://www.ibogaine.org/gallery.html
An art gallery of ibogaine inspired paintings and photographs has been
added

Ibogaine politics – political images in action
http://www.ibogaine.org/polgraph.html

The Dreaming

The Dreaming


This article was originally published in the UK newspaper “The
Independent on Sunday”, 28th March 1999)

Sacred African Plant found Effective in Treating Addiction
http://www.ibogaine.org/citysun.html
Brief non technical history

Conference on Ibogaine – New York University School of Medicine on
November 5 and 6, 1999.
http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/ibogaineconf/
The conference is over but, the web page remains an excellent source
of
information.

Thorough scientific review of all ibogaine research. Drs. Popik &
Skolnick,
Academic Press.
http://www.ibogaine.org/alkaloids.html

General Review of Ibogaine including history, chemistry, botany,
ethnography
http://www.Ibogaine.org/Bwiti1.html

Scientific review of Ibogaine
http://www.Ibogaine.org/review-dotf.html

Ibogaine Research Project
http://www.ibogaine-research.org/Ibogaine-Research-Project/Ibogaine.htm

Bwiti: an Ethnography of the Religious Imagination in Africa
http://www.Ibogaine.org/fernandez.html
Notice there’s a book for sale.

Erowid’s Ibogaine page
http://www.erowid.com/entheogens/ibogaine/ibogaine.shtml

MindVox
http://www.mindvox.com/
Very Cool site, kind of hard to locate the right pages (frames, I
can’t link you), but fun anyway.

Enter Search Term: IBOGAINE
http://www.mapinc.org/find

Ibogaine.net
http://www.ibogaine.net/

MISC:

http://ibogaine.lycaeum.org/

http://www.lycaeum.org (search page for psychedelics and select
ibogaine)

Enter IBOGAINE in the search box.
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/

Enter IBOGAINE in the search box:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Search&DB=PubMed

U.S. Patent Office – for patent searches.
http://www.uspto.gov/patft

European patent office – for patent searches
http://www.european-patent-office.org

………….be sure to tell me what I have missed that you’d like
more information on, I’d be more than happy to get more for you!

–Cynthia

Search Strategy: my bookmarks/favorites.

————————————————————————
Request for Answer Clarification by zulu500-ga on 17 Apr 2003 23:52 PDT

Hi,

yes please give me the link for the correct use per body weight
thanks!

————————————————————————
Clarification of Answer by cynthia-ga on 18 Apr 2003 11:20 PDT

zulu500,

Note the URL below, the information is from the archives of the
“calyx” Ibogaine mailing list, of which I subscribe. I linked you tro
the page to subscribe in my original answer.

Also, of EXTREME importance is this: the standard dose MUST be
adjusted for those that are NOT ADDICTED to opiates.

Information below is from here:
https://lists.calyx.nl/archives/ibogaine/2001-December/000059.html

Treatment Procedure:

Ibogaine treatment lasts anywhere from 24 to 38 hours with an after
treatment recovery of around 6 hours (usually spent asleep.) The
patient will need a place to lie down during treatment.

1. Ibogaine is administered in a 10 mg/kg dose and patient is
monitored for any allergic or otherwise adverse effects until approved
for treatment dose. EKG and heart/breath rates documented.

2. Treatment dose is administered of 20 mg/kg. All vital signs
documented. Wait for patient to enter visualization phase.

[note: this is for the highly refined Ibogaine]

3. Patient, in visualization phase, is counseled by psychiatrist and
drug treatment professional to root out causes of addictive or
self-destructive behavior and call them to the attention of the
patient to enhance and target visualization phase.

4. Monitor patient and document vital signs through the less
communicative peak and after peak phase of treatment.

5. After patient leaves the influence of Ibogaine, conduct post
treatment interview and debriefing.

6. Evaluate treatment and determine if withdrawal and cravings are
stopped, repeat Treatment Procedure in failed cases.

7. Monitor patient for two weeks minimum before release. Facilitate
after care placement and monthly evaluations.

At the same mailing list, this thread was started just a few days ago
(April 16th, 2003) – Please DO check the archives, there’s bound to be
more.

[IBOGAINE] Dosage
https://lists.calyx.nl/archives/ibogaine/2003-April/000638.html
…”— “R.J.” <cpinc@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
I have some root bark and am interested in taking a
dose that is both safe, and very beneficial. Can I
please get some information on this, as what I have
found so far seems to be inconsistent? Replies sent
directly to my email address are most appreciated…”

Dose for who? For what reason (addiction? for what
drug(s), how much/how long) age, sex, weight… You
can ballpark a “dose” at 25-30 or so gm if it is in
fact quality T. Iboga root bark in a healthy/average
man for a generic reason. That is VERY ROUGH and could
be too much or not enough even if you knew exactly how
strong (quality) it was. 5 gm of root bark (if that is
what it is and it is “quality” root bark) should be
about the same as 1gm of Indra extract, generally
producing a good buzz but not too trippy (usually),
the bulk of it lasting several hours but having effect
over days (maybe). If it is plain not-so-good
root-bark, it could take 3 times that, if it is just
root I don’t know, you tell me how much ibogaine is in
it and I will tell you how much you need. Another
method is to do increasing small amounts (using bark)
but it is not the same as a large one shot nix the
addiction dose. Point being there are a number of
methods for ibogaine administration, some fitting
peoples pocketbooks/abilities and the amount of effort
they can muster. Even small amounts of iboga will
“help” and be beneficial… if you going to give it to
someone kicking cold turkey, any real amount will
“help”. YOU may be ibo insensitive and require more,
you may be ultra-sensitive and require less, your
addiction might be a little stuborn (meth???) and
additional treatment might be required, most people
require more than 1 treatment eventually. Do you have
any medical conditions that require
consideration/adjustment to dosage, did you or are you
going to get the medical testing prior to having
treatment (basically a physical, EKG, blood chemistry
w/liver enzymes). Do you have a qualified sitter who
knows emergency procedures, the set/setting (place),
are going to follow protocol??? This goes a very long
way to having a trip that is “both safe, and very
beneficial”. FYI, there is an ibogaine “manual” on
ibogaine.org (http://ibogaine.org/manual.html). One of
the parts of the procedure is to determine your
response to ibogaine, a “test” dose is usually given.
This is because people have very different reactions
to ibogaine and in this case you don’t even know how
strong the iboga is (yet). You should also enquire
from the person/place you aquired the substance from
about how “good” it is.

There is a lot more to ibogaine treatment than just
taking ibogaine. There is something to the magic of
it, if done right it can be amazingly successful, if
done not so right it can be dangerous, quite
uncomfortable and you might just miss the magic. Best
thing IMO, is to have someone familiar with ibogaine
treat you, if not you should (IMO) go basically from
the start (with a guide/this list), about you and your
reason for wanting ibogaine and the ibo root bark
(???) that you have (you will have to figure out
exactly what it is/how strong it is, if it is… your
reasons for taking it (it ain’t just for
addicts/addictions), what you want to accomplish.
Small changes in procedures can have a profound impact
on the results. For instance, move around and you are
likely to get sick, maybe lose your dose, be very
uncomfortable – this has nothing to do with “dose”.
Having treatment away from home/family members and
with someone experienced with the administration of
ibogaine is better than being there with the bones in
the attic, buttons being pressed, distractions…
Eating (and what) after will have a big impact on how
you feel and recover, fruit, veggies, (REAL
FRUIT)juices, natural foods, taking
supplements/vitamins are great, not eating or eating
junk, will make recovery take longer and effect mood.
The more you do, the more you will get (it can be very
subtle things) – and it is far beyond just the “dose”.

FWIW, I could “dose” on a few mg’s of ibogaine hcl,
that quite “both safe, and very beneficial”, I could
do a hundred or so mg’s of HCL, maybe a gm of Indra
(or two) that is also “both safe and beneficial”, I
could do 5 times that and be “both safe and
beneficial”. Very different doses for very different
reasons (they overlap) which have had different
reactions/outcomes depending on when I did them and
how I did them (or know of people who did that).

Here is one experience with 15 gm of good root bark
(range is usually 2-6% ibogaine but also contains 14
or so other alkaloids that combine for the total
experience). Traditionally, a Bwiti mother would feed
the initiate enough ibogaine till they are there. The
initiate will be quite wobbled (aka knocked on their
ass), their legs pretty much give out. It becomes a
matter of taking enough till it is enough but let me
tell you, it gets harder and harder to swallow as it
sets in, it is way beyond taste.

http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/exp12.htm  …”

Then -this document goes into more detail:

An interview about Ibbogane treatment of addiction, with Eric Taub, by
James Kent
http://tinyurl.com/9tg0

…”How much is an active dose?

It depends on body weight, and on addiction, and the type of
initiatory psycho spiritual experience one wants, but the range is
quite large, from 6.5 mg per kg of body weight to 25 mg to overwhelm a
methadone or heroin habit.

So you are talking about many grams for a single dose?

Well, with body weight, we’re talking about approximately .5 g to 2 g
for addicts , and about 0.5 g to a gram for an initiatory experience.
Women need less because they are more open, so they need to take as
much to have an initiatory experience or to free themselves of a
cocaine habit, Cocaine doesn’t require the overwhelming physical
withdrawal. It’s just addressing mental craving which this does as
well because there is a metabolite which
is introduced when the ibogaine interacts with the biochemistry in the
brain, and receptors are filled up which have to do with craving in
addicts.

But it also fills the receptors of non addicts too, which I believe
has to do our ability to move into a less reactive state when dealing
with certain kinds of patterns, habitual patterns of relationships,
etc.

There is a biochemist I introduced the molecule to, and he said he
fell in love with it, and he compared it to ayahuasca except that
there is an is extra added component, an extra facet to the diamond,
to ibogaine, which I believe is that component which enables people to
retain the information they receive from the experience.

They are continually maintaining their identification with the witness
or with the adult that is reliving the unleashing of repressed
memories or this onslaught of pictorial gestalts and these archetypal
vignettes that energy during the 20 to 30 hours of experiencing a
session with ibogaine.

A third component, a metabolite, is then introduced into the system,
which washes out over a period of weeks and months. With other psycho
actives it seems the experience is over when the psychoactive is
thrown out of the system. With ibogaine, the ibogaine itself is thrown
out of the system faster than an aspirin, but it lingers and creates
these windows, three days, ten days, three months.

Very often I receive calls from people months later telling me, “I
finally got it, I finally understand what that was about, because I’ve
been experiencing more insight as a result of that restructuring of
definition of who I thought I was, and now all my intentions that I
came into the experience with have been worked through and now.”

I’ve even talked with people who have done many psychoactives and have
been very skeptical that anything can linger and create process over a
period of weeks and months who are emphatic about the fact that that
was the case with their experience over the continuing months after
taking ibogaine…”

Please read this next link in it’s entirety (lots of contact
information), although I have given an excerpt below:

Ibogaine: Anti-addictive drug illegal in US
http://www.free-market.net/forums/drugs0009/messages/692987812.html
…”The closest thing to an Ibogaine clinic in the US is an operation
run by Eric Taub. Mr. Taub takes people (from Florida) into
international waters for Ibogaine treatments. He has performed over
300 Ibogaine sessions, charges on a sliding-scale, and has medical
personnel assist with Ibogaine sessions for the addiction interruption
treatments (some who are not addicted use Ibogaine for “spiritual”
purposes). His website is “www.IBEGINAGAIN.org” and he can be emailed
at “IBEGINAGAIN@aol.com”. Emailing him and asking for his phone
number, or leaving yours, is his preferred means of communication. A
new clinic has recently opened in Mexico, reportedly run by an
American MD from Atlanta, which charges $5000/treatment—travel not
included. More information will be available on this clinic in the
future but early reports have had mixed reviews of both its
professionalism and success rate.

Other than that, there are few options for Americans. Some have
Ibogaine sent to friends in Canada or Mexico (there are several
European Ibogaine sources including the Indra Company at
“www.indra.dk” and Marko at “iboga@guest.arnes.si”) and then they
travel to Canada/Mexico for treatment. No European company will ship
to the US no matter how much money is offered or how many times one
asks. The Indra Company sells an Ibogaine extract that is
approximately one-fifth as potent as Ibogaine HCL. Thus, 5 grams of
Indra Ibogaine is equal to 1 gram of Ibogaine HCL. The Indra Ibogaine
is leftover stock from a Danish government experiment years ago–it is
said that the Indra Ibogaine provides a “smoother” trip than what one
gets from using the pure Ibogaine HCL. This is perhaps due to the fact
that the extract contains a full range of alkaloids from the
Tabernantha Iboga plant which some claim make the experience more
“complete.” However, opiate addicts seem to prefer the more potent
Ibogaine HCL due to its greater strength which increases the chances
that most (if not all) of the withdrawal symptoms will be absolved.
Because of the nausea that Ibogaine causes, it is wise to take an
anti-nauseate beforehand such as the OTC motion-sickness medicine
Dramamine, the herb ginger, or the prescription drugs Reglan and
Compazine. Special care should be used when taking Compazine as some
people have a bad reaction to it.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY ADVISED that you do not take Ibogaine alone—you
should also read all you can about it before ingesting it. You will
greatly regret taking it alone as you will find yourself basically
immobilized for approximately 48-72 hours—not to mention the dangers
of asphyxiation or the possibility (albeit remote) that you will need
someone to get medical help if needed…”

Ibogaine Research Update from the Newsletter of the Multidisciplinary
Association for Psychedelic Studies – MAPS – Volume 6 Number 2 Winter
1995-96
http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v06n2/06204ibo.html
Scroll down to: The Phase 1 Safety Study

…”The FDA-approved Phase 1 ibogaine safety study is proceeding very
cautiously. The therapeutic dose of ibogaine is in the range of 15 to
20 mg/kg, yet the FDA has only given permission for the researchers to
administer ibogaine to three subjects at the 1 mg/kg dose level and to
six subjects at each of the four following dose levels; 2 mg/kg, 4
mg/kg, 6 mg/kg, and 8 mg/kg. After the current 2 mg/kg dose level has
been administered to six subjects, the data must be analyzed and
submitted to an external committee for review. After evaluation of all
the available data to assess safety is completed and reviewed by a
team of experts, then the researchers may proceed to the next higher
dose. Once all the data has been gathered from the 1 mg/kg, 2 mg/kg, 4
mg/kg, 6 mg/kg, and 8 mg/kg dose levels, a more comprehensive review
will take place to determine if the research can proceed into the
testing of doses that will approach the therapeutic dose range. All of
these data will be presented to the FDA for the next evaluation prior
to protocol revision.

Only male subjects are being permitted to volunteer for this initial
safety study because of the reported deaths of two women that were
associated with, but perhaps not solely caused by, the administration
of ibogaine outside of hospital settings. While a matter of the utmost
concern, these deaths have not stopped all research with ibogaine
because their causes are uncertain, thousands of people have taken
ibogaine without incident, drug addiction itself is often fatal and
the available treatments for addiction have a relatively low success
rate. The acceptable level of risk for potentially fatal diseases such
as addiction and cancer is higher than that for treatments of diseases
with less severe consequences or more effective treatments. For
example, drugs used for the treatment of cancer can sometimes
themselves be fatal, a situation which occasionally does occur without
causing physicians to abandon the therapeutic uses of these
medications.

According to Howard Lotsof, President of NDA International, both
screening for possible ibogaine sensitivity and an antidote for
idiosyncratic toxicity will most likely be available within six
months. These developments will allow the treatment of female subjects
at full therapeutic doses outside of the United States in NDA’s
ongoing ibogaine treatment program in the Republic of Panama…”

…Once again, this is a subject I adore, if there’s anything else
you’d like me to provide more information and links to, I’d be more
than happy to assist. I wish there was some way we could stay in
touch, I will be very interested in what you decide to do and what
your experience is, but leaving contact information here is a no-no.
…Oh well.

–Cynthia

————————————————————————
Clarification of Answer by cynthia-ga on 23 Apr 2003 08:52 PDT

Hi again, I found this page and wanted to pass it along. If you don’t
mind, I’ll post other stuff here from time to time, to keep all my
Ibogaine links in one place…

Ibogaine Supply and Treatment Options (EXCELLENT PAGE)

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options


…”Information on this page is supplied for interest only. Many of
the facilities and suppliers are not government licensed. Persons
offering treatment may have no medical qualifications. Costs given are
approximate…”

zulu500-ga rated this answer:

Fantastic, quick and very solid research. Thanks very much!!! 🙂
Comments      Log in to add a comment
Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: cynthia-ga on 14 Apr 2003 11:29 PDT
Hi zulu500-ga,

I thought you’d never ask!  😉  –Seriously, thanks for the request
and the opportunity to present this incredible plant to you. Let me
take a day to organize all my links and write a synopsis of what
you’ll find at the links. I have one client that has requested a
clarification that I must get out ASAP, and you will be next…

Until then,
–Cynthia

Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: tehuti-ga on 14 Apr 2003 12:20 PDT
“Ibogaine’s current legal status in the UK, and much of the rest of
the world, is that of an unlicensed, experimental medication, and it
not therefore an offence to possess the drug, though to act as a
distributor may be breaking the law. Ibogaine is a restricted
substance (possession is illegal) in some countries, including the US,
Switzerland, Sweden and Belgium.”

“There is an inherent level of risk with ibogaine treatment. Four
people are known to have died in connection with taking ibogaine or
other iboga products, and there may in truth be many more, given that
ibogaine is frequently administered in surroundings where people may
be reluctant to contact the authorities in the event of something
going wrong.”

“Beware of listening excessively to the advice of just one individual
when deciding whether or not to take ibogaine. Because ibogaine’s
effects can be life-changing, it is common for someone who has had a
very positive experience to do their utmost to ‘spread the message’
about the drug, possibly allowing their enthusiasm to override the
considerable concerns about safety.

– If you are thinking of taking ibogaine for personal development and
haven’t yet been involved in proper therapy, (ie: therapy where
there’s an open or implicit admission by the individual of the
presence of emotional problems), be aware that this may be because
your mind is simply being attracted to a “quick fix” strategy that
avoids really dealing with the underlying issues. If this is the case,
ibogaine could well make things worse.”

Important information for those thinking of taking Ibogaine

Toxicol Sci 2000 Sep;57(1):95-101 Related Articles, Links

A dose-response study of ibogaine-induced neuropathology in the rat
cerebellum.
Xu Z, Chang LW, Slikker W Jr, Ali SF, Rountree RL, Scallet AC.
Department of Pathology, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences,
Little Rock, Arkansas 72205, USA.

Ibogaine (IBO) is an indole alkaloid from the West African shrub,
Tabernanthe iboga. It is structurally related to harmaline, and both
these compounds are rigid analogs of melatonin. IBO has both
psychoactive and stimulant properties. In single-blind trials with
humans, it ameliorated withdrawal symptoms and interrupted the
addiction process. However, IBO also produced neurodegeneration of
Purkinje cells and gliosis of Bergmann astrocytes in the cerebella of
rats given even a single dose
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids
=10966515&dopt=Abstract

Purkinje cells = “receive input from three brain cell fiber systems.
One single Purkinje cell, for example, can receive converging input
from over 200,000 other cells. Yet Purkinje cells are the sole output
from the cerebellar cortex…  Any information exiting the cerebellum
to the rest of the brain must go out from Purkinje cells…  Although
many inputs to the Purkinje cell are from excitatory neurons –cells
that fire chemical signals to other cells — the Purkinje itself is an
inhibitory neuron, meaning it selectively suppresses and limits
excitatory impulses. Purkinje cells receive a tremendous amount of
excitation through neurons from the spinal cord, cortex and other
areas. All of these competing “voices” contribute to such a high level
of background activity, the Purkinje cells are thought to sculpt or
compose this “noise” (by virtue of their inhibition) into coherent
“musical phrases” the rest of the brain can clearly understand.”
http://www.omnimag.com/live_science/purkwrld/index.html

Sooner you than me!

Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: pinkfreud-ga on 14 Apr 2003 12:30 PDT
I would urge extreme caution regarding ibogaine. As is the case with
many powerful hallucinogens, this is a drug whose use may result in am
experience of enlightenment, or may lead to nightmares beyond belief.
To use such a drug without professional guidance is the equivalent of
playing Russian roulette with your mind, body, and spirit.

In the late 1960s I lost a friend to ibogaine. Regardless of the rosy
tales of self-awareness and nirvana which some may recount, when I
think of ibogaine I will always remember my friend crouched in terror
on the floor, trying to scrape the skin off his face with his
fingernails and screaming “The candle’s flame will burn the world! The
candle’s flame will burn the world!”

Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: magnesium-ga on 14 Apr 2003 13:28 PDT
I thought that questions about illegal activities were not permitted here?

Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: cynthia-ga on 15 Apr 2003 16:16 PDT
hi!

Today was a nightmare (read: payroll), and I really want to give your
question the time it deserves, especially because Ibogaine is a
personal passion of mine. I didn’t get to the clarification today
either, might take a couple days to get yours complied.

Thanks for your patience,
–Cynthia

Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: cynthia-ga on 15 Apr 2003 16:22 PDT
Actually, there is no need to fear answering this question. Ibogaine
is approved for clinical trials in the United States, there are
several hospitals currently offering trials.

Frankly, I would wonder more about the legal status of DMT:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_law.shtml
That question was answered with no such admonishments. No clinical
trials at all. No medical use. Ibogaine is currently being researched
by several prominent Doctors and the medical use is well documented.

Subject: Re: Ibogaine THIS IS FOR cynthia-ga
From: pinkfreud-ga on 17 Apr 2003 16:45 PDT
Regarding the legal aspects of this question and answer, ibogaine is
classified as a Schedule 1 drug in the United States. This is the same
classification in which such drugs as heroin and LSD fall.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine_law.shtml

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [drugwar] Feds back down in medical pot case
Date: August 28, 2004 at 8:59:33 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

from the “Grower gets his shit back” article below >He called it a
bittersweet victory and complained that anti-drug personnel should spend
their resources and time pursuing cocaine and heroin traffickers. “They
would be better off going that route rather than going after little pot
growers like me,” May said.<

Sigh.
Even targeted pot heads don’t always get it, do they?
“Don’t bust/harrass me, bust those other bad folk- their drugs are Bad while
mine are Good, darn it. They deserve prison time, being shot to death by
prohibitionists and other general malaise and such, but little ol’ me and My
friends, we deserve to be left alone.”
Again, sigh.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: the_Lawyerdude@yahoogroups.com ; chaconstitutionalist ;
elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com ; Evolving_Thought@yahoogroups.com ;
RM-COUNSEL@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 1:52 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Feds back down in medical pot case

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3141163,00.html
Feds back down in medical pot case
Marijuana-growing supplies to be given back to Aurora man
By Hector Gutierrez, Rocky Mountain News
August 27, 2004
An Aurora man suffering from chronic pain won a major victory Thursday when
the federal government agreed to return all of his marijuana-growing
equipment.
The assistant U.S. attorney also told the lawyer for medical-marijuana user
Dana May that they will not prosecute May for any crime. But the pot that
the Drug Enforcement Administration and Aurora police seized from May’s
Aurora home will stay in the possession of federal authorities.
Supporters of medical marijuana said they believe it marks the first time
that the U.S. attorney has agreed to return growing equipment to someone who
has been cleared of wrongdoing.
“This case is precedent-setting and a very sympathetic case and just a
terrible example of the federal government not recognizing that this is
where the state of the law is going and where patients are going,” Allen St.
Pierre, executive director of the Washington, D.C.-based National
Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said.
May and his lawyer, Robert J. Corry Jr., will appear at a hearing this
morning in Arapahoe County District Court where they will tell the judge
that they will drop their civil lawsuit against the Aurora Police Department
demanding that it return May’s marijuana-producing equipment.
May, 45, said he had feared a long, drawn-out fight with the U.S. attorney’s
office and the DEA.
“I just about fell off my chair when my lawyer told me,” he said. “I thought
he was joking. He said, ‘We got a victory here,’ and ‘They’re going to give
you your stuff back.’ ”
After today’s hearing, May said he plans to notify the DEA that he will pick
up his equipment within 48 hours. Agents had confiscated 31 pieces of
equipment from May’s home, including transformers, water pumps, cloning
machines and exhaust fans that he used to grow marijuana.
He called it a bittersweet victory and complained that anti-drug personnel
should spend their resources and time pursuing cocaine and heroin
traffickers. “They would be better off going that route rather than going
after little pot growers like me,” May said.
May said he will try to resume growing marijuana as soon as possible at an
undisclosed location.
“I think this is a big step because with the DEA giving my equipment back
they know what I’m going to do with it, and it’s like they’re condoning it,”
he said. “There aren’t any options about what I’m going to do with it. I’m
not going to grow tomatoes.”
Jeffrey Dorschner, spokesman for the District of Colorado U.S. attorney,
said federal prosecutors decided not to pursue a civil forfeiture case
against May after concluding that his equipment had minimal value.
May’s doctor signed the legal forms required for May to grow and smoke pot
in 2002. May suffers from chronic pain in his legs and feet as a result of a
1995 accident.
—————————————————————————
Attachment: http://drugsense.org/temp/part3562.html

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:53:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Helloooo!

I feel like I must defend the ‘opiate detox’ website as I’ve been there a while and I’ve found real help and inspiration there in my darkest days!  Its just that its grown SO much in the last few months that its very different now-not so personal.  Every day theres new faces!  There used to be a new thread every so often and now there’s a whole page of new ones daily!  Its hard to keep track!  I have met some amazing people there who have really helped me and have made some good friends.  I spose its helping more and more people which can only be a good thing!  Its definately not got the same attitude as this ‘place’ but its there for a purpose (opiate detox) and has to keep alot of people happy-bit like NA?  Take what you need and leave the rest? That’s what I do.  At least Ibogaine is mentioned!  And there’s a couple of people (one of whoms you Shell ;-)) who have done it so theres info there if people are interested.  Hell…as long as they’re helping people!

But I agree, I feel much more at home here!  I didn’t feel like I could ever say “actually I quite like H” there or “if H hadn’t been there for me maybe I’d have killed myself so maybe its a good thing” and I felt sometimes that it was getting cliquey or bitchy.  Too judgemental sometimes.

Anyway, we’re here now so let’s enjoy…..

Me?  I’m on Subutex but have still been dabbling-the appeal of snowballs was too much for a while but now I’m back on best behaviour!  I’m very interested in Ibogaine but don’t know when I’ll have the cash.  I have no one around me who knows anything about it.  I’ve told people but its like a myth to them.  I wish I could do it and SHOW them all its power!  I’ve tried to get my boyf to read info on it but with bills to pay etc its not a priority for him.  Then again he always said he be willing to pay anything he could afford to see me free of this addiction….

Sorry I’m rambling again!
I’d just like to add that I’m thinking of you Preston, Marc and Sean-way to go, lead the way boys!  Sean I don’t spose you’re off that website too?  Anyway,thanks for letting us in on these amazing events, love to you all,

Hannah 🙂

—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hey CHarlie!Glad to run into you!Yeah,I was overjoyed to fing this site,didnt get much reception at opiate detox,now this site is another level!!!Hope to see you soon-shell

cw <chowlee@qwest.net> wrote:
Hi Loop, Shelley,
It’s great to run into both of you again; this is “Fluffy” from “Opiate Detox” site.  I haven’t been there for a while though.  I’ve been focusing on getting as much info on Ibogaine as I can find.
I just started the Suboxone again, a few days ago, so I’m too week to type much; it doesn’t do much for me, but it’s better than nothing.
My quest for Ibogaine/Iboga continues; Suboxone doesn’t have a good record with me ; = (
Take care,
Charlie

—————————————————
www.pokerweb.com –
—————————————————
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi Loop,glad to see you in another forum!Thanks for your response,I was asking for you I guess,Im not sure that part about AD’s,I know they treat ppl with dual dx with ibo,guess well hear more as time gose on-shell

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley!

I wondered if you were the same Shelley-I use the ‘opiate detox’ website too.  I was probably who you were referring to when you said about the ADs.  I was told by an experienced sitter:

“you would have to wean off the
antidepressants. You MUST NOT be on any medication when you take the
ibogaine. ”

And they also said this about Ibogaine and Subutex:

“Subutex has a half life of between 30 and 60 hours which means your best bet
is to switch from subutex to a shorter acting opiate four or five days
before taking the ibogaine. You mustn’t have any subutex after sixty hours
before treatment ie there has to be sixty hours between last hit of subutex
and ibogaine. Obviously you may feel the withdrawals which makes it safer to
quit subutex five days prior and switch to something else to stabilise. This
is also very important as subutex and ibogaine can be very dangerous.”

I just hope they don’t mind me posting this!  I just wanted to help-I find these confusing yet very important questions to ask!
LOL Hannah (Loop)
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi List,hey Ive been posting on a site called opiate detox talking about ibogaine(theyre all in favor of buprenex),one of the folks there was asking about bup detox with ibo,wouldnt that be just like any other opiate,i know its an anognist/antagonist or some such,also they were saying he had to be off his antidepressant,Ive never heard of that,any body know??????

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
I am now 52 my youngest daughter graduated from Hi School this spring, as you can see I had responsibilities and was surrounded with reasons to make it work, probably much different situation. Make no mistake I was a glutton to the end and still could be. I really wanted to have my youngest daughter have a good environment. I have known for some time that now is when my challenge will really begin, my children are grown and mostly on their own.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:42 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Thanks Brad. I too know that feeling of being on meth and feeling (almost) normal and actually I was thinking back last night on my life on methadone and remembered that when I got on my first program I needed to have a special letter from the state approving the treatment because I was only 16 so I’ve been struggling with this for as long as I can remember. That first period on meth was joke and I I just ended up shooting more dope and coke but the second time around maybe 4 years later for me was very different I was tired and I really wanted to stop and I do admit it did the trick for a while. I went back to school and got my shit together but as I look back on it now it was a lie and that (almost normal) feeling eventually brought me right back out because as we both know being on a meth program eventually makes you feel just about the furthest thing from normal especially if you’ve been able to put your life together in o ther areas. Well that was my experience anyway. Good luck and thank you again and be in touch any time.

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Congratulations “M”, I have followed your journey, waited for your “return” and am happy for you. It was 9 years ago next week, the last time I came out of a Rehab. and was drug free. All of your descriptions have reminded me of those feelings and thoughts, I never took it as serious as it is. The past 5 years MMT has stabilized my life and got me thinking I’m normal, we know better. You and Preston have given me new hope and probably, many others.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Well I think today makes 29 days since I had any dope or meth and it feels great. Its actually my birthday today, which I’ve always hated because it was more a reminder of anything else that I have been addicted for another year. (first did dope on the day after my birthday 12 years ago) But its a new day. I feel like life is just beginning again and life is getting a little better everyday and the only thing that could fuck that up now is by putting any kind of opiate back into my system. I am allergic, simple as that. Break out in detoxes and handcuffs and all that shit. Ya gotta admit some of the little NA slogans are right on.
I slept almost 9 hours last night which was amazing. Still have a few chills here and there and my bowel is still very loose. But it keeps getting a little better everyday and I feel myself getting stronger and stronger and looking better and better everyday.
I can’t tell you all what a difference its made to keep close to the movement and the treatments. I feel as long as I stay connected in that aspect and stay close to the spirit (if you like) I couldn’t imagine ever going backwards.
Good vibes to all and keeping good thought’s for everyone in the pool right now. -M.

jon grocott <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
Hi Jasen,
          the reason dialaudid is prescribed in this case is because of severe pain, most doctors don’t prescribe it for any other reason. It’s ironic though to use strong opiates to help get off methadone, I’ve thought about it myself before. ………. Jon.

>From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re:    Re: [ibogaine] I am the the god of cluck ! pt.2(Australia)

>Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:29:23 +1000

>

>

>   Dear list,

>   Wow,I can’t believe that docters are prescribing dialaudid,this is fantastic.I think it would be a good way to come off methadone.

>   By taking dil’ for say..,3 months,so by then the (most of) the done is out of your system,and comming off would be so much easier.(I am not telling you anything here that most of you wouldn’t already know.)

>   I wish docters over here were prepared to do that. I think the government and medical proffesion here is quite anal concerning addiction sickness.

>   Other than that,we have a pretty good system of government and good docters,it’s just a pity they’re not very open minded concerning addiction.Also a pity that big business,such as pharm’ companies are so mega money orientated.If only……

>

>   If I could transfer onto dialaudid for three months,..wow,..not to get off,but to help get off the done.Although feeling full never goes astray.

>   I would assume it would not be as stressing to the body to come off dialauded as it is the ‘done.

>   Of course no come down is easy,..ay.

>                                                         Jasen (Australia)

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Sean, Preston and Mark
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:28:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,  From what I know you are a really good person.  You can’t please everyone all of the time so have faith in yourself and listen to V.  Sounds like she knows you well & has your best interests at hear and failing all that say Bollocks to the ones who don’t like what you do.  Its your life and your the one who has to live in your skin, not them.  Best wishes  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 28 August 2004 2:31:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Sean, Preston and Mark

No,
Thank You Hattie.
But I want to say publicly that of the three of us here in NYC who’ve
recently taken ibogaine, Sean is most impressive to me, in that he’s older
and I imagine even more used to, or set, in his using patterns- so his
breaking them, while staying at his parents and doing it in his parents’
presense no less, impresses the hell outta me. He just seems to be moving
steadily forward, and I’m very much enjoying watching/reading about it, or
at least, he’s inspiring me even when I don’t pay that close of attention.
(I get selfish and pay a lot of attention to myself and my own issues and
troubles actually, which sometimes leaves me feeling guilty, which I think
is probably pretty silly but still- and it’s a major reason why I don’t want
to undergo group therapy, because I don’t always want to deal with other
people’s shit, although I am going today mainly because I want to meet Sean
face to face).
On a slightly related note- I’ve been noticing that I’m really feeling
very blue today, not so happy at all and actually very depressed. I’m not
sure why. I think it’s partly due to the reaction I had from someone towards
me yesterday, someone who in any other situation would have had my utmost
respect and props, and did have it until I got his attitude, (which to be
very honest coulda just been me being paranoid too, which leaves me feeling
even worse about it) – V pointed out to me this morning that she suspects
that because I want everyone to like me, or at least get along with me, and
do tend to usually get very positive feedback from people, that when I do
come across someone who either blows me off or disrespects me, or whatever
unpositive thing I feel/think they Might be doing/acting towards me really
affects me, me being a sensitive type and all.
She may have a good point- I’m not sure. I’m going to be very
disappointed in myself if this is really the case and that’s the cause of my
blue feelings. Then again, it may be better to actually have an explaination
for it, no matter how stupid or silly, rather than continue to think that
I’m feeling like shit for no reason at all.
So I guess the Golden Time is wearing off already, and now I’m dealing
with life on its own terms again- ick. (I do still get the occasional flash
of trails and gittery vision, as late as last night I was noticing ibo
effects, but they aren’t seemingly doing anything to my mood in a good, or
at least, happyfying way.)
Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 6:11 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Preston and Mark

> Preston and Mark,
>
> Been keeping up with your experiences and wanted to say that what you have
> done is totally brilliant and inspiring ……. and sharing your
experience
> provides a really valuable insight for all on the list. So big THANKS!
>
> Hattie
>
>
>
>
>
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>

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.

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal prosecution
Date: August 28, 2004 at 7:17:43 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I thought that was the Catholic religion.    Committing sins and then confessing and having it all absolved to repeat the process.  Or am I being cynical.  Pardon me if this upsets anyone, its just my personal opinion.  Allison  Other than that I always thought the whole idea of christian religion should be to be kind, caring and considerate to others.  Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.  That makes sense to me but not a lot of the other bullshit that gets touted.
Has anyone else out there read of the Church group in NZ protesting new govt legislation for rights for same sex couples.  They recently protested all wearing black t-shirts, arms raised as in a salute gesture, marching in step and brought a large amount of children with them all dressed the same and following the adults steps.  I found it all a bit scary & threatening.  And then people reckon drug addicts are a problem.  Perhaps they should look around a bit more at some of the other self called “good citizens” out there with all their prejudices.  Sorry, will step off my soap box now.

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 28 August 2004 10:18:21 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal prosecution

well,
You know of course that we white people (speaking for myself of course,
being pale peachish-tanned slightlybrown colored anyway) are supposed to be
Christians, you know, to believe in something rational and tangible- an old
guy with a beard sitting in final judgement, sending his son to die for all
the rest of us so we can sin then say “sorry, I’m bad please forgive” and go
on sinning. Yeah, that sounds rational. I can dig it.
All that silly “I’m at one with the whole entire cosmos” thing I feel
while on many psychedelics, nope, that’s not for we whitey types at all.
It’s too craaaaazy and all.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal
prosecution

> That is f*cking bullsh*t, those pricks- who do they
> think they are?
>
> GRRR
>
>
> re:
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
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>
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>
>

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.

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@call south.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…
Date: August 28, 2004 at 5:32:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree that its harder to quit smoking than using opiates but I figure if we are strong enough to do one than we are strong enough to do anything we want.  (the word being want).  Where there is a will there is a way.  Best wishes.   Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Saturday, 28 August 2004 1:43:20 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…

I can’t remember what day  for me it is anymore so no more of that day 29 day 30 shit.  All I do know is this has been the longest time I’ve not been under the influence of dope in one form or another. I quit smoking on Tuesday and believe it or not I’m finding its harder to stop somking that it is for me to not shoot dope, a lot harder. But I think one of the gifts I got from my ibogaine experience was the ability to exert some kind of impulse control, something I could never do in the past, which has made it a million times easier. This feeling of not wanting to harm my body anymore is just so different than anything I’ve ever felt before. I see myself getting stronger and looking better everyday and the motivation I get from that is tremendous. So much more profound than the illusion of dope.  A REAL warmth.
Thanks. -M.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
IS EVERYBODY ON THIS LIST INSANE? OF COURSE AND QUITE PROUD OF IT!!
julian

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: August 28, 2004 at 5:32:21 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Callie, You have once again very eloquently said what I needed to read this morning. I’m glad you have been in the rooms like me ’cause you can cut to the chase pretty quickly, and I understand just where you are coming from. When you were talking about self will run riot you hit me right on the head with it. I haven’t been to a meeting in about 6 months and my will has been driving me crazy. I, like you, have to wait my turn for the treatment because my family is footing the bill amongst other reasons and I “aint”a good one to wait. Although I remember one night in Erie Pa. waiting in a blizzard for the dope man. I had to keep cleaning off the headlights so he could see me when he got there. I think I saw about a foot of snow fall waiting for that guy. He finally made it too. But I digress. Thanx for your post and for being the fine southern lady that you are. Our time will come, and I’ve got a feeling its going to be monumental.        Randy

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
Date: August 28, 2004 at 2:45:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston,

Just read you interview with FM.  It was cool learn more about him.  He called constantly during my treatment, and made my parents feel as calm as possible about what I was doing.

He is really a great guy, and I think that ongoing treatments in the US is a great goal.
I wouln’d mind a second treatment myself in about six months.  Good to know this may be possible.

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Harlem operations
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:07:10 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

as noted Howard, my tape recorder was busted…errrr, I mean, broken, and so
I was writing out all answer long hand- which doesn’t lend itself well at
all to interviewing people when i want to delve further into responses. I
apologize profusely for not having more details in the interview and for not
being able to really answer your questions. I do not know how well they were
received up in Harlem, although do know Marcus Isreal was treated in an
apartment in Harlem.
I hope to further speak with FM in the future, but am unsure when that
occasion will be.
Sitting in mad NYC (currently overrun with terro…I mean, republicans
and lots of protestors too), sending
Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Harlem operations

Preston,

From your interview. http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

FM- My initial idea was to establish a base of operations in Harlem.

P- Why Harlem?

FM- To make ibogaine available to the descendents whose ancestors came
from
where this plant originates.

P- How do you advertise the treatments, since they’re highly illegal?

FM- We began by distributing approximately 150 brochures in front of
methadone clinics in Harlem.

P- When was that?

FM- Early July. That was the start.
**********

So is there any interest from the African American community? Have any
African Americans been treated with ibogaine for chemical dependence
during these
operations?  What are they saying and how do they feel about it?  Fifteen
or
twenty years ago Dana and I met with some people in Harlem and offered
free
treatments but, received no interest.  The answer we received was that it
would be
too easy that way.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 9:56:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 8:39:22 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

I have booked into the doc’s to get an EKG and blood test.I suppose this
is the first move.
Can one fly straight to Mexico,do they have an international airport?

Jasen,

Don’t go anywhere without contacting the people you are going to be treated
by.  You have to make arrangements in advance or certainly that is the best
advice I can give you.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Harlem operations
Date: August 27, 2004 at 9:49:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

From your interview. http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm

FM- My initial idea was to establish a base of operations in Harlem.

P- Why Harlem?

FM- To make ibogaine available to the descendents whose ancestors came from
where this plant originates.

P- How do you advertise the treatments, since they’re highly illegal?

FM- We began by distributing approximately 150 brochures in front of
methadone clinics in Harlem.

P- When was that?

FM- Early July. That was the start.
**********

So is there any interest from the African American community? Have any
African Americans been treated with ibogaine for chemical dependence during these
operations?  What are they saying and how do they feel about it?  Fifteen or
twenty years ago Dana and I met with some people in Harlem and offered free
treatments but, received no interest.  The answer we received was that it would be
too easy that way.

Howard

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 9:39:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard and list,
I am just so f’ing confused,I have read the sites and looked at the
providers world wide
and also have had feedback from people on the list(many thanks),however I
still don’t know wich way to turn.
Where to go to recieve this treatment,finding the best type of situation.I
have contacted the good doctor
in France and heard of others in the UK and of course all the providers on
the list of providers that was given to me
by Howard.I feel I would need a clinical situation.where ever I go I can
stay for as long as necessary.I am afraid to go
somewhere for only a few days or a week,in case this is not enough and I
have to go back.I can only go once
but I can stay in that country for 6 weeks if necessary.f……….k. I
really am so confused,and I must say a little scared.

To do the treatment in a hotel room does not sound like the best situatiuon
to me,but unfortunatley with our
governments being so pig headed concerning Ibogaine,in some places we have
to go underground,hence motel rooms.

I understand Sara does it at her home,which sounds like a more holistic
approach.In Mexico they have a clinic,this also sounds good,
the panamas,..well this sounds ideal,..but then of course, the cost of the
panamas makes it out of reach for most of us.

I have booked into the doc’s to get an EKG and blood test.I suppose this is
the first move.
Can one fly straight to Mexico,do they have an international airport?The
reason I ask is that because of a minor
drug charge(pot) 12 years ago,I might not be able to get a visa to get into
the states.

Frustrated. Jasen (Aus)

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

In a message dated 8/27/04 7:32:30 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

Do you still treat people yourself?
Thank you for your responces,and to all of you for your help and answers.
with smiles Jasen (Aus)

Not at this time.

Howard

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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Sean, Preston and Mark
Date: August 27, 2004 at 9:14:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Preston,

You and Marc posting has really helped me stay on the right path.  Thanks for being so honest about everything with the group.  Self honesty is key to self understanding, I believe.  And some courage.  And anyone who doses twice in the same month sure has balls IMO.:)

Pax,
Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 8:47:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Changes in diet are not uncommon after Ibogaine.  Follow your intuition
about
any future dosing.  Rest and regain your strength.  Did you stop eating meat
or were you a vegetarian before Ibogaine?<

I am finding I have a real aversion to meat nowadays. Granted I live with a
strict vegan, and I haven’t given up milk or other dairy products (although
I’ve only tried to eat one bowl of icecream only to toss it almost all out-
reminds me too much of pre-ibo and how that almost ALL I was eating, ice
cream I mean), but I have found my eating habits drastically altered. As
noted, I’m doing a lot more fruit, and eating more meals nowadays. I am
actually waiting for some vegan food to be delivered right now. I am
starving I feel like- and it used to be I was very, very good at ignoring
that “god I’m so hungry I’m gonna collapse if I don’t eat even some bread
crumbs soon” feeling and treating it like just another buzz. Now I find that
not only can I not do that so well, I don’t even want to.
In terms of sleep, I guess I’m sleeping about the same amounts post ibo
as I was pre-ibo (not counting the nodding off I was doing a lot of) but
find I do get out and about town as often as possible to really wear myself
out physically so I do fall asleep easily. And I think I must be gaining at
least a couple of pounds, although I’m still very thin and lean.
Peace and love,
Preston (and to those who went to that group meet today, I apologize for not
showing up- someone called me twice today to inform me that there weren’t
enough people to warrent a group meet this afternoon, so I decided to take a
nap, and then woke to find a note in front of me saying that there was going
to be a men and women’s group meeting after all, but I woke up at 4:28 and
the meet was to start at 4:30. Soooo, I missed it. Sorry Sean, I’m sure
we’ll meet each other next time or at least, sooner than later.)

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.

In a message dated 8/27/04 4:14:39 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Thanks for the responses.  I appreciate everyone’s
input. Being able to cut my dosage was great, but I
DID feel the drop- it was not painless.

I feel better now, but am still unable to eat or sleep
much.  And anything other than cereal, fruit and juice
is a complete anathema to my stomach.  I lost 7lb over
the course of 3 days.

I would be interested in trying Ibogaine again, but
not for a while.  I found it to be a little taxing on
my system.

Dear Julie,

Thanks for your responses.  A good many people find Ibogaine taxing.  I
was
curious as to two things.  1) Did you drink adequate amounts of water for
two
days prior to dosing with ibogaine (8 – 10 glasses a day) and 2) did you
have
any noticeable stomach problems, gastric distress prior to dosing with
Ibogaine?

Changes in diet are not uncommon after Ibogaine.  Follow your intuition
about
any future dosing.  Rest and regain your strength.  Did you stop eating
meat
or were you a vegetarian before Ibogaine?  Oh well, more questions than I
thought.  Have you gained any of the lost weight back?  Persons without
any
chemical dependence have their sleep cycles cut down for a month or so
after
Ibogaine.  Normal sleep patterns come back slowly. Are you taking
vitamins?  Setting
aside the issue that you did not stop methadone completely you seem quite
sensitive to ibogaine.  That is something you should consider if you do
try
Ibogaine again.

Take care

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 8:37:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 7:32:30 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

Do you still treat people yourself?
Thank you for your responces,and to all of you for your help and answers.
with smiles Jasen (Aus)

Not at this time.

Howard

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 8:32:23 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

***Dear Howard,
Do you still treat people yourself?
Thank you for your responces,and to all of you for your help and answers.
with smiles Jasen (Aus)

.  I have treated a number of
persons who claimed withdrawal but, after discussion and analysis
recognized they
were not experiencing withdrawal.

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: August 27, 2004 at 8:21:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/2004 4:03:05 PM Central Daylight Time, darkmattersfo@hotmail.com writes:
want to do it as soon as possible but the cost of going to Mexico is too
much for me righ now. I thought about importing but that seems risky so I am
exploring my options right now.

I feel as you and want to be treated ASAP BUT……..I am on a high dose of Methadone since 1998 and my funds are limited. I am slowly coming down on my Methadone dose. I was decreasing 2mg every 2 weeks for 3 or 4 months but got to feeling grouchy and anxious so I have temporarily stopped. I am also sticking back at least 50 bucks a paycheck to hopefully pay for treatment in a clinical setting.
I would love to hurry and start my journey but it is impossible at this time.. I am trying to control my “self will run riot” and sit tight and wait my turn.
I am a believer that things happen as they should as long as I do the next right thing and keep my ‘bright ideas’ or will out of it.
I hate the words Higher Power. I prefer God but it turns people off as soon as I say it but God does a great job in my life if I stay out of it!
Share whatever you want about yourself. Do you have offspring, married, single, occupation or not…..whatever you feel like makes you, you!
Peace, Callie

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 8:17:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 4:14:39 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Thanks for the responses.  I appreciate everyone’s
input. Being able to cut my dosage was great, but I
DID feel the drop- it was not painless.

I feel better now, but am still unable to eat or sleep
much.  And anything other than cereal, fruit and juice
is a complete anathema to my stomach.  I lost 7lb over
the course of 3 days.

I would be interested in trying Ibogaine again, but
not for a while.  I found it to be a little taxing on
my system.

Dear Julie,

Thanks for your responses.  A good many people find Ibogaine taxing.  I was
curious as to two things.  1) Did you drink adequate amounts of water for two
days prior to dosing with ibogaine (8 – 10 glasses a day) and 2) did you have
any noticeable stomach problems, gastric distress prior to dosing with Ibogaine?

Changes in diet are not uncommon after Ibogaine.  Follow your intuition about
any future dosing.  Rest and regain your strength.  Did you stop eating meat
or were you a vegetarian before Ibogaine?  Oh well, more questions than I
thought.  Have you gained any of the lost weight back?  Persons without any
chemical dependence have their sleep cycles cut down for a month or so after
Ibogaine.  Normal sleep patterns come back slowly. Are you taking vitamins?  Setting
aside the issue that you did not stop methadone completely you seem quite
sensitive to ibogaine.  That is something you should consider if you do try
Ibogaine again.

Take care

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal prosecution
Date: August 27, 2004 at 6:18:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

well,
You know of course that we white people (speaking for myself of course,
being pale peachish-tanned slightlybrown colored anyway) are supposed to be
Christians, you know, to believe in something rational and tangible- an old
guy with a beard sitting in final judgement, sending his son to die for all
the rest of us so we can sin then say “sorry, I’m bad please forgive” and go
on sinning. Yeah, that sounds rational. I can dig it.
All that silly “I’m at one with the whole entire cosmos” thing I feel
while on many psychedelics, nope, that’s not for we whitey types at all.
It’s too craaaaazy and all.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal
prosecution

That is f*cking bullsh*t, those pricks- who do they
think they are?

GRRR

re:

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 5:50:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think even a clinic could have convinced me to eat the booster until
I was ready to do so.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

So Preston,
Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any hanging
out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
—– Original Message —–                       With much
appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started
feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster, and I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought until
last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then
finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and it
did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Full text. Peyote case. Smokers won.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 5:44:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
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Subject: [drugwar] Full text. Peyote case. Smokers won.

FROM LAWYERDUDE:

5965

People v. Woody (1964)

61 Cal.2d 716 , 35 Cal Reporter 708

Indians may eat Peyote; I may eat LSD!

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In 1964, a monumental case concerning Indian religion occurred in
California. On April 28, 1962, a group of Navajos met in Needles to
perform a religious ceremony in which peyote was used. Peyote is a
drug derived from the buttons of the mescal cactus. The Indians were
arrested and tried for violating the law which prohibited
unauthorized possession of the drug. Judge Mathew 0. Tobriner of the
California Supreme Court issued the court’s decision, In responding
to a lower court’s verdict, Tobriner wrote, “The court ruled to deny
Indian use of peyote was a violation of their religious freedom. ‘We
preserve a greater value than an ancient tradition when we protect
the rights of the Indian who honestly practices an old
religion. . . .’ ” (35 CAL Reporter, 1964:708) At this point, public
consciousness began to recognize Indian religion and the value it
had to the Indian people.

People v. Woody (1964)

61 Cal.2d 716 , 35 Cal Reporter 708

Indians may eat Peyote; I may eat LSD!

[Crim. No. 7788. In Bank. Aug. 24, 1964.]

THE PEOPLE, Plaintiff and Respondent, v. JACK WOODY et al.,
Defendants and Appellants.

COUNSEL : Rufus W. Johnson for Defendants and Appellants. [61 Cal.2d
717]

Mitchel J. Ezer, A. L. Wirin and Fred Okrand as Amici Curiae on
behalf of Defendants and Appellants.

Stanley Mosk, Attorney General, William E. James, Assistant Attorney
General, and Jack K. Weber, Deputy Attorney General, for Plaintiff
and Respondent.

OPINION TOBRINER, J.

On April 28, 1962, a group of Navajos met in an Indian hogan in the
desert near Needles, California, to perform a religious ceremony
which included the use of peyote.police officers, who had observed
part of the ceremony, arrested defendants, who were among the
Indians present. Defendants were later convicted of violating
section 11500 of the Health and Safety Code, which prohibits the
unauthorized possession of peyote. We have concluded that since the
defendants used the peyote in a bona fide pursuit of a religious
faith, and since the practice does not frustrate a compelling
interest of the state, the application of the statute improperly
defeated the immunity of the First Amendment of the Constitution of
the United States.

When the police entered the hogan and charged the participants with
the use of peyote, one of the Indians handed the officers a gold-
colored portrait frame containing a photostatic copy of the articles
of incorporation of the Native American Church of the State of
California. The articles declared: “That we as a people place
explicit faith and hope and belief in the Almighty God and declare
full, competent, and everlasting faith in our Church things which
and by which we worship God. That we further pledge ourselves to
work for unity with the sacramental use of peyote and its religious
use.”

The state stipulated at trial that at the time of the arrest
defendants and the other Indians were performing a religious
ceremony which involved the use of peyote. Defendants pleaded not
guilty to the crime of illegal possession of narcotics, contending
that their possession of peyote was incident to the observance of
their faith and that the state could not constitutionally invoke the
statute against them without abridging their right to the free
exercise of their religion. The trial proceeded without a jury; the
court held defendants guilty and imposed suspended sentences.
Defendants’ defense, if any, must lie in their constitutional
objection. [1] We do not doubt that even though technically peyote
is an “hallucinogen” rather than a narcotic, the state, pursuant to
the police power, may proscribe its [61 Cal.2d 718] use. (Reetz v.
Michigan (1903) 188 U.S. 505 [23 S.Ct. 390, 47 L.Ed. 563]; Sandelin
v. Collins (1934) 1 Cal.2d 147 [33 P.2d 1009, 93 A.L.R. 956].) Only
if the application of the proscription improperly infringes upon the
immunity of the First Amendment can defendants prevail; their case
rests upon that amendment, which is operative upon the states by
means of the Fourteenth Amendment (Cantwell v. Connecticut (1940)
310 U.S. 296 [60 S.Ct. 900, 84 L.Ed. 1213, 128 A.L.R. 1352]). The
First Amendment reads “Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise
thereof. …” fn. 1

[2] Although the prohibition against infringement of religious
belief is absolute, the immunity afforded religious practices by the
First Amendment is not so rigid. (Sherbert v. Verner (1963) 374 U.S.
398, 403 [83 S.Ct. 1790, 10 L.Ed.2d 965]; In re Jenison (1963) 375
U.S. 14 [84 S.Ct. 63, 11 L.Ed.2d 39]; West Virginia State Board of
Education v. Barnette (1942) 319 U.S. 624 [63 S.Ct. 1178, 87 L.Ed.
1628, 147 A.L.R. 674]; Braunfeld v. Brown (1960) 366 U.S. 599 [81
S.Ct. 1144, 6 L.Ed.2d 563]; Cantwell v. Connecticut, supra, 310 U.S.
296; Reynolds v. United States (1878) 98 U.S. 145 [25 L.Ed. 244].)
But the state may abridge religious practices only upon a
demonstration that some compelling state interest outweighs the
defendants’ interests in religious freedom. (Sherbert v. Verner,
supra, 374 U.S. 398, 406; In re Jenison, supra, 375 U.S. 14;
Braunfeld v. Brown, supra, 366 U.S. 599, 613-614; Cantwell v.
Connecticut, supra, 310 U.S. 296, 311; West Virginia State Board of
Education v. Barnette, supra, 319 U.S. 624, 643-644.)

The Supreme Court of the United States recently in Sherbert v.
Verner, supra, restated the rule. In Sherbert a South Carolina
employer discharged appellant, a Seventh-day Adventist, because she
refused to work on Saturdays. Since her “conscientious scruples”
against Saturday work precluded her from obtaining other employment,
appellant applied for unemployment compensation benefits. The South
Carolina Employment Security Commission rejected appellant’s claim
[61 Cal.2d 719] upon the ground that she had “… failed, without
good cause … to accept available suitable work. …” The South
Carolina courts affirmed the commission’s ruling despite appellant’s
contention that application of the disqualifying provision of the
statute abridged her right to the free exercise of her religion.

The United States Supreme Court reversed, finding, first, that the
denial of compensation benefits clearly constituted a burden upon
the free exercise of appellant’s religion. The court then stated
that it must “… consider whether some compelling state interest
enforced in the eligibility provisions of the South Carolina statute
justifies the substantial infringement of appellant’s First
Amendment right. It is basic that no showing merely of a rational
relationship to some colorable state interest would suffice; in this
highly sensitive constitutional area, ‘[o]nly the gravest abuses,
endangering paramount interests, give occasion for permissible
limitation. [Citation.]’ ” (P. 406.)

Despite the plea by South Carolina that fraudulent religious
objections to Saturday work would dilute the state compensation fund
and interfere with employers’ scheduling of necessary Saturday work,
the court held that “no such abuse or danger has been advanced in
the present case” which would justify the abridgement of appellant’s
religious freedom.

The court in Sherbert thus utilized a twofold analysis which calls
for a determination of, first, whether the application of the
statute imposes any burden upon the free exercise of the defendant’s
religion, and second, if it does, whether some compelling state
interest justifies the infringement. fn. 2

[3a] The first step requires an exploration into the particulars of
this case to determine whether section 11500 of [61 Cal.2d 720] the
Health and Safety Code imposes any burden upon the free exercise of
defendants’ religion. An examination of the record as to the nature
of peyote and its role in the religion practiced by defendants as
members of the Native American Church of California compels the
conclusion that the statutory prohibition most seriously infringes
upon the observance of the religion.

The plant Lophophora williamsii, a small, spineless cactus, found in
the Rio Grande Valley of Texas and northern Mexico, produces peyote,
which grows in small buttons on the top of the cactus.peyote’s
principal constituent is mescaline. When taken internally by chewing
the buttons or drinking a derivative tea, peyote produces several
types of hallucinations, depending primarily upon the user. In most
subjects it causes extraordinary vision marked by bright and
kaleidoscopic colors, geometric patterns, or scenes involving humans
or animals. In others it engenders hallucinatory symptoms similar to
those produced in cases of schizophrenia, dementia praecox, or
paranoia. Beyond its hallucinatory effect, peyote renders for most
users a heightened sense of comprehension; it fosters a feeling of
friendliness toward other persons.

Peyote, as we shall see, plays a central role in the ceremony and
practice of the Native American Church, a religious organization of
Indians. Although the church claims no official prerequisites to
membership, no written membership rolls, and no recorded theology,
estimates of its membership range from 30,000 to 250,000, the wide
variance deriving from differing definitions of a “member.” As the
anthropologists have ascertained through conversations with members,
the theology of the church combines certain Christian teachings with
the belief that peyote embodies the Holy Spirit and that those who
partake of peyote enter into direct contact with God.

Peyotism discloses a long history. A reference to the religious use
of peyote in Mexico appears in Spanish historical sources as early
as 1560. Peyotism spread from Mexico to the United States and
Canada; American anthropologists describe it as well established in
this country during the latter part of the nineteenth century.
Today, Indians of many tribes practice Peyotism. Despite the absence
of recorded dogma, the several tribes follow surprisingly similar
ritual and theology; the practices of Navajo members in Arizona
practically parallel those of adherents in California, Montana,
Oklahoma, Wisconsin, and Saskatchewan.

The “meeting,” a ceremony marked by the sacramental use of peyote,
composes the cornerstone of the peyote religion. [61 Cal.2d 721] The
meeting convenes in an enclosure and continues from sundown Saturday
to sunrise Sunday. To give thanks for the past good fortune or find
guidance for future conduct, a member will “sponsor” a meeting and
supply to those who attend both the peyote and the next morning’s
breakfast. The “sponsor,” usually but not always the “leader,” takes
charge of the meeting; he decides the order of events and the amount
of peyote to be consumed. Although the individual leader exercises
an absolute control of the meeting, anthropologists report a
striking uniformity of its ritual.

A meeting connotes a solemn and special occasion. Whole families
attend together, although children and young women participate only
by their presence. Adherents don their finest clothing, usually
suits for men and fancy dresses for the women, but sometimes
ceremonial Indian costumes. At the meeting the members pray, sing,
and make ritual use of drum, fan, eagle bone, whistle, rattle and
prayer cigarette, the symbolic emblems of their faith. The central
event, of course, consists of the use of peyote in quantities
sufficient to produce an hallucinatory state.

At an early but fixed stage in the ritual the members pass around a
ceremonial bag of peyote buttons. Each adult may take four, the
customary number, or take none. The participants chew the buttons,
usually with some difficulty because of extreme bitterness; later,
at a set time in the ceremony any member may ask for more peyote;
occasionally a member may take as many as four more buttons. At
sunrise on Sunday the ritual ends; after a brief outdoor prayer, the
host and his family serve breakfast. Then the members depart. By
morning the effects of the peyote disappear; the users suffer no
aftereffects.

Although peyote serves as a sacramental symbol similar to bread and
wine in certain Christian churches, it is more than a
sacrament.peyote constitutes in itself an object of worship; prayers
are directed to it much as prayers are devoted to the Holy Ghost. On
the other hand, to use peyote for nonreligious purposes is
sacrilegious. Members of the church regard peyote also as
a “teacher” because it induces a feeling of brotherhood with other
members; indeed, it enables the participant to experience the Deity.
Finally, devotees treat peyote as a “protector.” Much as a Catholic
carries his medallion, an Indian G.I. often wears around his neck a
beautifully beaded pouch containing one large peyote button. fn. 3
[61 Cal.2d 722]

The record thus establishes that the application of the statutory
prohibition of the use of peyote results in a virtual inhibition of
the practice of defendants’ religion. To forbid the use of peyote is
to remove the theological heart of Peyotism. Having reached this
conclusion, we must undertake the second step in the analysis of the
constitutional issue: a determination of whether the state has
demonstrated that “compelling state interest” which necessitates an
abridgement of defendants’ First Amendment right. (Sherbert v.
Verner, supra, 374 U.S. 398, 406; see West Virginia State Board of
Education v. Barnette, supra, 319 U.S. 624, 643-644; National Assn.
for Advancement of Colored People v. Button, supra, 371 U.S. 415,
438; American Civil Liberties Union v. Board of Education, supra, 55
Cal.2d 167 , 178.)

The state asserts that the compelling reason for the prohibition of
Peyotism lies in its deleterious effects upon the Indian community,
and even more basically, in the infringement such practice would
place upon the enforcement of the narcotic laws because of the
difficulty of detecting fraudulent claims of an asserted religious
use of peyote. The prosecution further claims that the cases support
these positions. We set forth the reasons why we believe the
contentions to be unfounded.

The People urge that “the use of peyote by Indians in place of
medical care, the threat of indoctrination of small children,” and
the “possible correlation between the use of this drug and the
possible propensity to use some other more harmful drug” justify the
statutory prohibition. The record, however, does not support the
state’s chronicle of harmful consequences of the use of peyote.

The evidence indicates that the Indians do not in fact employ peyote
in place of proper medical care; and, as the Attorney General with
fair objectivity admits, “there was no evidence to suggest that
Indians who use peyote are more liable to become addicted to other
narcotics than non-peyote- using Indians.” Nor does the record
substantiate the state’s fear of the “indoctrination of small
children”; it shows that Indian children never, and Indian teenagers
rarely, use peyote. Finally, as the Attorney General likewise
admits, the opinion [61 Cal.2d 723] of scientists and other experts
is “that peyote … works no permanent deleterious injury to the
Indian. …” Indeed, as we have noted, these experts regard the
moral standards of members of the Native American Church as higher
than those of Indians outside the church.

The Attorney General also argues that since “peyote could be
regarded as a symbol, one that obstructs enlightenment and shackles
the Indian to primitive conditions” the responsibility rests with
the state to eliminate its use. We know of no doctrine that the
state, in its asserted omniscience, should undertake to deny to
defendants the observance of their religion in order to free them
from the suppositious “shackles” of their “unenlightened”
and “primitive condition.”

Turning to the state’s second contention, that the threat of
fraudulent assertions of religious immunity will render impossible
the effective enforcement of the narcotic laws, we note that South
Carolina in Sherbert v. Verner, supra, unsuccessfully urged to the
United States Supreme Court a substantially similar contention. It
argued that “a possibility that the filing of fraudulent claims by
unscrupulous claimants feigning religious objections to Saturday
work might … dilute the unemployment compensation fund … [and]
hinder the scheduling by employers of necessary Saturday work.” (374
U.S. at p. 407.) The Supreme Court held among its alternate grounds
for disposing of this contention, that “there is no proof whatever
to warrant such fears of malingering or deceit as those which the
respondents now advance.” (Id at p. 407.) Further, the court pointed
out that “even if the possibility of spurious claims did threaten to
dilute the fund and disrupt the scheduling of work, it would plainly
be incumbent upon the [state] to demonstrate that no alternative
forms of regulation would combat such abuses without infringing
First Amendment rights.” (Id at p. 407.) In the instant case, as in
Sherbert, the state produced no evidence that spurious claims of
religious immunity would in fact preclude effective administration
of the law or that other “forms of regulation” would not accomplish
the state’s objectives.

That other states have excepted from the narcotic laws the use of
peyote, and have not considered such exemption an impairment to
enforcement, weakens the prosecution’s forebodings. New Mexico in
1959, and Montana in 1957, amended their narcotics laws to provide
that the prohibition against narcotics “shall not apply to the
possession, sale or gift of peyote for religious sacramental
purposes by any bona fide [61 Cal.2d 724] religious organization
incorporated under the laws of the state.” fn. 4 Arizona has reached
a similar result by judicial decree. fn. 5

That the state’s showing of “compelling interest” cannot lie in
untested assertions that recognition of the religious immunity will
interfere with the enforcement of the state statute, finds
illustrated in the Minnesota litigation culminating in In re Jenison
(1963) 267 Minn. 136 [125 N.W.2d 588]. In the original Jenison case,
the Minnesota Supreme Court, prior to the decision in Sherbert v.
Verner, affirmed the criminal contempt conviction of a woman who
refused to serve on a jury because of religious objections. (In re
Jenison (1963) 265 Minn. 96 [120 N.W.2d 515].) The United States
Supreme Court reversed per curiam and remanded the case to the
Minnesota Supreme Court “for further consideration in light of
Sherbert v. Verner. …” (In re Jenison (1963) 375 U.S. 14 [84 S.Ct.
63, 11 L.Ed.2d 39].) Upon remand the state court reversed the
conviction, stating that “there has been an inadequate showing that
the state’s interest in obtaining competent jurors requires us to
override relator’s right to the free exercise of her religion.
Consequently we hold that until and unless further experience
indicates that the indiscriminate invoking of the First Amendment
poses a serious threat to the effective functioning of our jury
system, any person whose religious convictions prohibit compulsory
jury duty shall henceforth be exempt.” (Id at p. 589.)

We turn to the several cases cited by the Attorney General which
uphold statutes restricting religious practices. The People
principally rely upon Reynolds v. United States (1878) 98 U.S. 145
[25 L.Ed. 244], which ruled that Congress could constitutionally
apply to Mormons a prohibition against polygamy. The Mormon doctrine
of polygamy rested in alleged divine origin and imposed upon male
members, circumstances permitting, the observance of the practice
upon pain of eternal damnation.

The Supreme Court held that the history of the laws against polygamy
showed that the condemnation of the practice was a matter of the
gravest social importance. It found in polygamy [61 Cal.2d 725] the
seed of destruction of a democratic society. fn. 6 Viewing the
practice as highly injurious to its female adherents, the court
classed polygamy with such religious rites as sacrifice of human
beings and funeral immolation of widows.

Reynolds v. United States must be distinguished from the instant
case for two fundamental reasons. The test of constitutionality
calls for an examination of the degree of abridgment of religious
freedom involved in each case.polygamy, although a basic tenet in
the theology of Mormonism, is not essential to the practice of the
religion; peyote, on the other hand, is the sine qua non of
defendants’ faith. It is the sole means by which defendants are able
to experience their religion; without peyote defendants cannot
practice their faith. Second, the degree of danger to state
interests in Reynolds far exceeded that in the instant case. The
court in Reynolds considered polygamy as a serious threat to
democratic institutions and injurious to the morals and well-being
of its practitioners. As we have heretofore indicated, no such
compelling state interest supports the prohibition of the use of
peyote.

Similarly, Braunfeld v. Brown (1960) 366 U.S. 599 [81 S.Ct. 1144, 6
L.Ed.2d 563] cited by the People, upholding the Pennsylvania Sunday
Law against a free exercise objection by Sabbatarians, differs from
the present case. Braunfeld represents only an “incidental” fn. 7
infringement of religious freedom contrasted with “a strong state
interest in providing one uniform day of rest for all workers. That
secular objective could be achieved … only by declaring Sunday to
be that day of rest. Requiring exemptions for Sabbatarians, [61
Cal.2d 726] while theoretically possible, appeared to present an
administrative problem of such magnitude … that such a requirement
would have rendered the entire statutory scheme unworkable.”
(Sherbert v. Verner (1963) 374 U.S. 398, 408, 409 [83 S.Ct. 1790, 10
L.Ed.2d 965].) fn. 8

[4] Finally, we deal with the Attorney General’s argument that our
present conclusion requires an inquiry in each case into the bona
fides of a particular defendant’s beliefs, an inquiry which is both
difficult and “repugnant to the spirit of our law. …” Yet the
trier of fact need inquire only into the question of whether the
defendant’s belief in Peyotism is honest and in good faith. As the
court in United States v. Ballard (1944) 322 U.S. 78 [64 S.Ct. 882,
88 L.Ed. 1148], held, although judicial examination of the truth or
validity of religious beliefs is foreclosed by the First Amendment,
the courts of necessity must ask whether the claimant holds his
belief honestly and in good faith or whether he seeks to wear the
mantle of religious immunity merely as a cloak for illegal
activities.

In so doing, we impose no undue burden upon the trier of fact. We do
not doubt the capacity of judge and jury to distinguish between
those who would feign faith in an esoteric religion and those who
would honestly follow it. “Suffice it to say that trial courts will
have to determine in each instance, with whatever evidence is at
hand, whether or not the assertion of a belief which is protected by
the First Amendment is in fact a spurious claim.” (In re Jenison,
supra, 125 N.W.2d 588, 590; italics added.) Thus the court makes a
factual examination of the bona fides of the belief and does not
intrude into the religious issue at all; it does not determine the
nature of the belief but the nature of defendants’ adherence to it.

Courts reach such factual determinations in a host of related
circumstances. Thus the Universal Military Training and Service Act
(1948) 50 U.S.C.App., section 456(j), exempts from combat training
and service any person “who, by reason of religious training and
belief, is conscientiously opposed to participation in war in any
form.” (See, e.g., Rempel v. United States (10th Cir. 1955) 220 F.2d
949, 951; [61 Cal.2d 727] United States v. Hagaman (3rd Cir. 1954)
213 F.2d 86, 89; In re Jost (1953) 117 Cal.App.2d 379 , 387 [256
P.2d 71], revd. 347 U.S. 901 [74 S.Ct. 427, 98 L.Ed. 1061] [applying
conscientious objector provision in Internal Security Act of 1950, 8
U.S.C.Supp. IV, 735].) Significantly, title II, section 3, of the
National Prohibition Act (1919) 41 Stat. 308-309, exempted from
prohibition the use of wine for sacramental purposes.

In the instant case, of course, we encounter no problem as to the
bona fide nature of defendants’ assertion of the free exercise
clause. The state agrees, and the evidence amply demonstrates, that
defendants’ use of peyote was for a religious purpose. fn. 9

[3b] We have weighed the competing values represented in this case
on the symbolic scale of constitutionality. On the one side we have
placed the weight of freedom of religion as protected by the First
Amendment; on the other, the weight of the state’s “compelling
interest.” Since the use of peyote incorporates the essence of the
religious expression, the first weight is heavy. Yet the use of
peyote presents only slight danger to the state and to the
enforcement of its laws; the second weight is relatively light. The
scale tips in favor of the constitutional protection.

We know that some will urge that it is more important to subserve
the rigorous enforcement of the narcotic laws than to carve out of
them an exception for a few believers in a strange faith. They will
say that the exception may produce problems of enforcement and that
the dictate of the state must overcome the beliefs of a minority of
Indians. But the problems of enforcement here do not inherently
differ from those of other situations which call for the detection
of fraud. On the other hand, the right to free religious expression
embodies a precious heritage of our history. In a mass society,
which presses at every point toward conformity, the protection of a
self-expression, however unique, of the individual and the group
becomes ever more important. The varying currents of the subcultures
that flow into the mainstream of our national life give it depth and
beauty. We preserve a greater value than an ancient tradition when
we protect the rights of the Indians who honestly practiced an old
religion [61 Cal.2d 728] in using peyote one night at a meeting in a
desert hogan near Needles, California.

The judgment is reversed.

Gibson, C. J., Traynor, J., Schauer, J., Peters, J., and Peek, J.,
concurred.

McComb, J., dissented.

FN 1. Defendants also rely upon Cal. Const., art. I, section 4,
which provides: “The free exercise and enjoyment of religious
profession and worship, without discrimination or preference, shall
forever be guaranteed in this State; and no person shall be rendered
incompetent to be a witness or juror on account of his opinions on
matters of religious belief; but the liberty of conscience hereby
secured shall not be so construed as to excuse acts of
licentiousness, or justify practices inconsistent with the peace and
safety of this State.”

FN 2. The court’s requirement of a “compelling state interest”
echoes Justice Jackson’s statement in West Virginia State Board of
Education v. Barnette, supra, 319 U.S. 624, 639, that “The right of
a State to regulate, for example, a public utility may well
include … power to impose all of the restrictions which a
legislature may have a ‘rational basis’ for adopting. But freedoms
of speech and of press, of assembly, and of worship may not be
infringed on such slender grounds. They are susceptible of
restriction only to prevent grave and immediate danger to interests
which the state may lawfully protect.” (Italics added; see also
National Assn. for Advancement of Colored People v. Button (1963)
371 U.S. 415, 438 [83 S.Ct. 328, 9 L.Ed.2d 405]; American Civil
Liberties Union v. Board of Education (1961) 55 Cal.2d 167 , 178 [10
Cal.Rptr. 647, 359 P.2d 45, 94 A.L.R.2d 1259]; Wollam v. City of
Palm Springs (1963) 59 Cal.2d 276 , 286 [29 Cal.Rptr. 1, 379 P.2d
481].)

FN 3. Although Peyotism has not assumed a major role in American
Indian life, it has in some respects affected it. On the one hand,
no extant Indian nation recognizes it as its national religion; the
Navajo Tribal Code forbids the possession of peyote, the driving of
a car while under the influence of peyote, and the sale of peyote on
the reservation. On the other hand, however, most anthropological
authorities hold Peyotism to be a positive, rather than negative,
force in the lives of its adherents. Since the church forbids the
use of alcohol and has adopted many of the moral precepts of
Christianity, these authorities conclude that members observe higher
standards than nonmembers.

FN 4. New Mexico Statutes (1959) 54-5-16; Montana Statutes (1959)
94-35-23.

FN 5. In Arizona v. Attakai, Criminal No. 4098, Coconino County,
July 26, 1960; appeal by State dismissed by Arizona Supreme Court.
The Arizona court held that its narcotics statute could not
constitutionally be applied to members of the Native American
Church.

FN 6. The court declares: “Upon [marriage] society may be said to
be built, and out of its fruits spring social relations and social
obligations and duties, with which government is necessarily
required to deal. In fact, according as monogamous or polygamous
marriages are allowed, do we find the principles on which the
government of the people, to a greater or less extent,
rests.professor Lieber says, polygamy leads to the patriarchal
principle, and which, when applied to large communities, fetters the
people in stationary despotism, while that principle cannot long
exist in connection with monogamy. …” (Id at pp. 165-166.)

FN 7. The court stated: “… the statute at bar does not make
unlawful any religious practices of appellants; the Sunday law
simply regulates a secular activity and, as applied to appellants,
operates so as to make the practice of their religious beliefs more
expensive. Furthermore, the law’s effect does not inconvenience all
members of the Orthodox Jewish faith but only those who believe it
necessary to work on Sunday. And even these are not faced with as
serious a choice as forsaking their religious practices or
subjecting themselves to criminal prosecution.” (Id at p. 605;
italics added.)

FN 8. Such cases as Prince v. Massachusetts (1943) 321 U.S. 158
[64 S.Ct. 438, 88 L.Ed. 645] [child labor law applied to guardian of
a 9-year-old Jehovah’s Witness]; Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1904)
197 U.S. 11 [25 S.Ct. 358, 49 L.Ed.643] [compulsory vaccination
law]; and In re Ferguson (1961) 55 Cal.2d 663 [12 Cal.Rptr. 753, 361
P.2d 417] [lawful incarceration restricting religious observances]
must be distinguished from the present case upon similar grounds.

FN 9. We note that our determination that defendants are entitled
to religious exemption raises no issue under the establishment
clause of the First Amendment. (Sherbert v. Verner, supra, 374 U.S.
at p. 409.)

Return to Top

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 5:13:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard et al,

Thanks for the responses.  I appreciate everyone’s
input. Being able to cut my dosage was great, but I
DID feel the drop- it was not painless.

I feel better now, but am still unable to eat or sleep
much.  And anything other than cereal, fruit and juice
is a complete anathema to my stomach.  I lost 7lb over
the course of 3 days.

I would be interested in trying Ibogaine again, but
not for a while.  I found it to be a little taxing on
my system.

Julie

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete – You start. We finish.
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From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction part 2
Date: August 27, 2004 at 5:02:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Callie, et.al.

What would you like to know? My DOJ is speed. I have been struggling with it for over 7 years now. I have had periods of sobriety and have been very active in secular recovery but find myself going back to the stuff, usually because of relationship (or lack of one.)

I’ve been interested in ibo for several years and almost did it the last time I got clean but decided not to. I know one person personally who used it for heroin and another who used it for crack.

I want to do it as soon as possible but the cost of going to Mexico is too much for me righ now. I thought about importing but that seems risky so I am exploring my options right now.

From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction
Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 00:27:33 EDT

Hi Ryan! Good decision you have made to take the plunge!
Will you share more about yourself if you feel comfortable?
Look forward to getting to know you better!
Callie

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?/ or did it.
Date: August 27, 2004 at 3:50:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 12:10:56 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi.  I decided on 1000mg based on my weight- 15-20mg
per kg of weight.  I am 58 kilos, (roughly 125 lb),
5’7″, and 26yo.

I was able to lop a bit off my methadone dosage, from
35ml to about 20ml now, but I must honestly say, I
felt the drop, but only somewhat.

I was not able to sleep for approximately 48-50 hours
after ingesting Ibo, and even then it was one hour
naps here and there.  I should also mention I
continued to see trails for almost 3 full days.

I do not take sedatives, but I did smoke some weed to
promote sleep and appetite.  About the 1000mg- took
test dosage of 100-200mg; waited, then boosted with
about 500mg; vomited one hour later, but started to
‘trip’ on the Ibo, so waited; At around the 8 hour
mark, took remaining 300-400mg.  Everything was fine
until hour 14/15, when withdrawal symptoms started to
kick in.

I checked the Ibogaine therapy manual- I had all
symptoms except vomiting: muscle aches, yawning,
hot/cold flashes, restlessness, and a general sense of
malaise.  After about 10 hours of this, I took a sip
from my meth bottle(about 10mg??), and within 30
minutes these symptoms began to disappear.  I believe
that vomiting was my sole problem.

I don’t think Ethnogarden is too blame, I think my
stomach is to blame.  I talked to my pharmacist, and
he said that Ibogaine works much better with heroin
addiction interruption than meth- this is why I was
thinking about quitting methadone by chipping H, and
then getting off H with the Ibogaine.

First let me say that ibogaine did work.  Your dose of methadone is reduced
from 35mg/day to 20/mg/day.

There are a lot of theoretical approaches to ibogaine dosing. And ibogaine is
an experimental medication and so are its dosing regimens. Just look at all
the dosing variations among all the different ibogaine providers.  Possibly,
the dosing regimens will always be somewhat experimental as the patients coming
in for treatment are on different doses of different drugs and bring their own
pharmacodynamics to the treatment environment as well.  Given that many
patients are not locked into time constraints there is nothing to preclude moving
more slowly rather than more quickly.  For instance, a patient on 20mg/day of
methadone may take a 500mg dose of ibogaine to determine if the methadone dose
may then be reduced to 10mg/day.  A week or two later it would not seem
improbable to take a full therapeutic dose to stop methadone altogether.  It is too
bad that ibogaine is not available as an approved medication by providers who
are able to observe and treat their patients over time.  Observation of the
patient is the key to the practice of shamanism and western medicine.

The issue of the 14/15 hours withdrawal is an interesting one and should be
looked into and reported on by providers. Whether heroin or methadone generally
the first 12 hours are not a problem in any way.  Complaints do arise about
hour 16 but, usually not full blown withdrawal.  I have treated a number of
persons who claimed withdrawal but, after discussion and analysis recognized they
were not experiencing withdrawal. On the other hand if you are in withdrawal
you are in withdrawal.  On the issue of methadone doses, did your dose
normally hold you for a full 24 hours?

Setting the issues of doses of methadone aside, how do you feel?

I am also curious if anyone is using reglan (metoclopramide) as an
antinauseant and what effects are being seen?

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 3:23:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 10:24:38 AM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

So Preston,
Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any hanging
out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)

Just because you are in a clinical environment doesn’t mean you will
automatically be given boosters.  You might just as easily be sedated.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 27, 2004 at 3:22:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 10:12:05 AM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

Can someone please tell me what Suboxone is?

You know that saying about give a man a fish and you give him a meal.  Give
him a fishing pole and you feed him for live.  Well, do a google.com search for
suboxone.  The short of it is that suboxone is a trademarked form of
buprenorphine and naloxone.  The naloxone is added so that if you shoot the suboxone
you will go into immediate withdrawal.

Good luck

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4 questions
Date: August 27, 2004 at 3:01:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/27/04 6:51:32 AM, Sapphirestardus@aol.com writes:

HOWARD! You’re good! I got everyone wrong and here I thought I had such
a
high IQ! If you ever get more, please…….

Don’t worry Julian, I got every one wrong also.

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Welcome Back Steve
Date: August 27, 2004 at 1:22:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Steve, Its good to see your name popping up again. I missed your input while you were away. Lots of stuff has happened but I guess you can see that. Me, I’m still waiting for the final countdown.           Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal prosecution
Date: August 27, 2004 at 1:20:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is f*cking bullsh*t, those pricks- who do they
think they are?

GRRR

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail is new and improved – Check it out!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and St. Johns Wort
Date: August 27, 2004 at 1:13:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey “Yall”,(sometimes I can’t shake my southern roots), I was wondering if Sara or Howard or some other such knowledgeable people could tell me if I can take St. Johns Wort in place of Paxil while waiting for my treatment. I think it helped somewhat. Although I’d say becoming unsprung ought to help with any addicts mood more than anything.  Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 1:09:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

Hi.  I decided on 1000mg based on my weight- 15-20mg
per kg of weight.  I am 58 kilos, (roughly 125 lb),
5’7″, and 26yo.

I was able to lop a bit off my methadone dosage, from
35ml to about 20ml now, but I must honestly say, I
felt the drop, but only somewhat.

I was not able to sleep for approximately 48-50 hours
after ingesting Ibo, and even then it was one hour
naps here and there.  I should also mention I
continued to see trails for almost 3 full days.

I do not take sedatives, but I did smoke some weed to
promote sleep and appetite.  About the 1000mg- took
test dosage of 100-200mg; waited, then boosted with
about 500mg; vomited one hour later, but started to
‘trip’ on the Ibo, so waited; At around the 8 hour
mark, took remaining 300-400mg.  Everything was fine
until hour 14/15, when withdrawal symptoms started to
kick in.

I checked the Ibogaine therapy manual- I had all
symptoms except vomiting: muscle aches, yawning,
hot/cold flashes, restlessness, and a general sense of
malaise.  After about 10 hours of this, I took a sip
from my meth bottle(about 10mg??), and within 30
minutes these symptoms began to disappear.  I believe
that vomiting was my sole problem.

I don’t think Ethnogarden is too blame, I think my
stomach is to blame.  I talked to my pharmacist, and
he said that Ibogaine works much better with heroin
addiction interruption than meth- this is why I was
thinking about quitting methadone by chipping H, and
then getting off H with the Ibogaine.

Sorry to ramble,
J.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]ibogaine – why it didn’t work? Response to preston and apologies to sean
Date: August 27, 2004 at 11:39:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston
What dose did you take as a booster?
And exactly how many hours after first dose?

Just curious.

And apologies to Sean, I have only just started catching up on emails and
didn’t mean to leave anyone out.

And preston there are going to be blue days. Once you take away the familiar
crutch all the stuff underneath tends to want to resurface. This can happen
at varying speeds and intensity. But for my part I still have huge mood
swings when stuff creeps up on me. I kicked cocaine – five years ago. But
prior to that had struggled with anorexia for years so plenty of stuff in my
closet. Life isn’t all up and diving into the darkness is often part of the
recovery. Especially for those more drawn to altered states and shamanic
work.

Re V’s comment,
Being affected by others opinions and reactions is something most people can
relate to I am sure. If you are especially sensitive in this area this might
be something to look at.
I know that many people want everyone to like them. They are in many ways
seeking approval, having possibly never been given it at the crucial
point/age in their development. This makes their sense of self highly
dependent on others. Looking to others to validate self is not something to
be disappointed by – although the ego doesn’t like it, but rather something
to look at, assimilate if it resonates, and then work with. I speak from
personal experience in this matter as it something I had to work through
with my therapist at length! This may of course not be your issue and you
could just be having a blue day but you might want to notice if such
responses from people do tend to trigger you.

This is a huge topic, and as I don’t really know you and am not sure a) how
much I want to expose myself on the list or how much you want to.

Hattie

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster, and I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought until last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and it did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

Dear Preston,
I was hoping you could clear up a few queries for me please?

I too will swear to my grave, no matter what is said by anyone else, that
at
the 12 hour mark, when I first came to my senses again, I was in full on
withdrawals, and hating every freakin second of it- it was the worst
sensation, to come out of such beautiful visions into such hell, and it
took
all night to get me to take the first booster hit.

***When you say it took you all night to take your booster hit,do you mean
your original first dose, or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,

I hated the feeling, and
all I could think of was that the providers had not only my meds but all
the
others’ who’d been treated too.
I was pissed off and sick as a dog- but once I took the two boosters
and

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started feeling
comfortable again
With
thanks
and smiles Jasen(Aus)
went through another day’s tripping my brains out, I was fine and
finished
completely with the withdrawals. I also did NOT get sick and throw up,
which
as you note mighta had something to do with your results.
Peace and love, and best thoughts to you,
Preston

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 11:24:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So Preston,
Would you say,..had you been in a clinical environment where they just
automatically give you the boosters that there would not be any hanging
out.(assuming that this is what a clinic would do?)
—– Original Message —–                       With much
appreciation&smiles Jasen (Aus)
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2004 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster, and I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought until
last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the
booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and it did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 27, 2004 at 11:11:51 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello List,
Can someone please tell me what Suboxone is?
—– Original Message —–    Jasen
From: cw
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi Loop, Shelley,
It’s great to run into both of you again; this is “Fluffy” from “Opiate Detox” site.  I haven’t been there for a while though.  I’ve been focusing on getting as much info on Ibogaine as I can find.
I just started the Suboxone again, a few days ago, so I’m too week to type much; it doesn’t do much for me, but it’s better than nothing.
My quest for Ibogaine/Iboga continues; Suboxone doesn’t have a good record with me ; = (
Take care,
Charlie

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:59:57 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear J,I would have to agree with S and Howard.
Believe me I understand your logic,I have also considered this,
using heroin for three months to come off methadone.
All it will do is put you back into the scene for three months
and who knows what will happen there.We can throw in all types of logic
and believe me I have thought of many and I have allowed myself to
kid myself in ways like this many times.All I can say is any reason to start
using heroin again
regardless of all the logic and reasoning we can muster up and regardless of
how
so very genuine we might be,if it involves using again then it just never
seems to work.

Until you find another chance to try Ibogaine again or some other way to
come off
stick to the done and if you can,  abstain from using h.
With smiles
Jasen (Aus)

.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.
J

The last thing I would suggest you doing is getting involved with heroin.
Do
you not have enough problems?
Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:52:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,<

This is precisely what I mean Jason.

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started feeling
comfortable again<

Apparently V woke me on Sunday night to give me my first booster, and I
fought taking it until Monday morning, early sometime. (I thought until last
week that it’d been just a couple hours that I’d refused to take the booster
but it turned out to be all night.) I first took a Valium and then finally
calmed down enough to think about others’ reactions (that I’d read about
recently) and that if I took the booster supposedly it’d help- and it did
too, within about an hour I suppose.
peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

Dear Preston,
I was hoping you could clear up a few queries for me please?

I too will swear to my grave, no matter what is said by anyone else, that
at
the 12 hour mark, when I first came to my senses again, I was in full on
withdrawals, and hating every freakin second of it- it was the worst
sensation, to come out of such beautiful visions into such hell, and it
took
all night to get me to take the first booster hit.

***When you say it took you all night to take your booster hit,do you mean
your original first dose, or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,

I hated the feeling, and
all I could think of was that the providers had not only my meds but all
the
others’ who’d been treated too.
I was pissed off and sick as a dog- but once I took the two boosters
and

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started feeling
comfortable again
With
thanks
and smiles Jasen(Aus)
went through another day’s tripping my brains out, I was fine and
finished
completely with the withdrawals. I also did NOT get sick and throw up,
which
as you note mighta had something to do with your results.
Peace and love, and best thoughts to you,
Preston

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal prosecution
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:49:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s really hard not to give in to the hate that wells when I read shit like the following.
To think that these manical prosecutors can be so sure of themselves that they can tell these people they are not going to allow them to practice their religion even after the STATE Supreme Court ruled it legal is beyond disgusting and sick.
Thanks for posting this one Vig.
Peace and love to all, although I resist offering it to the prohibitionistic mind and body fuckers for at least this morning,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: the_Lawyerdude@yahoogroups.com ; chaconstitutionalist ; a political debate ; global humanity ; RM-COUNSEL@yahoogroups.com ; Evolving_Thought@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 12:36 PM
Subject: [drugwar] Church may be facing federal prosecution

Deputies seized nearly 17,500 peyote buttons in addition to the church’s
computers and records. Mooney and his wife were arrested the next month and
posted bond; the Utah chapter of the church has since declared bankruptcy.

http://www.heraldextra.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid
=32887&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

Church may be facing federal prosecution

DAILY HERALD
Caleb Warnock

A celebration of minority religious rights in Utah among members of the
Oklevueha EarthWalks Native American Church came to an abrupt end Thursday
when church leaders were told they may be facing federal prosecution.

Oklevueha founder James Warren “Flaming Eagle” Mooney received a letter on
Thursday from the U. S. Department of Justice informing him that the federal
government will not recognize a June ruling of the Utah Supreme Court that
the church can distribute peyote to non-American Indians.

“Although the Utah Supreme Court has recently ruled that you may sell or
otherwise distribute peyote under state law, that ruling does not control or
bind the federal government,” wrote U.S. Attorney Paul Warner and U.S.
Department of Justice Criminal Division Chief Richard N.W. Lambert in the
letter, a copy of which was obtained by the Daily Herald. “Please be advised
that this office is reviewing your conduct for consideration of seeking
federal charges.”

If federal charges are filed, Mooney said he would defend his case all the
way to the U.S. Supreme Court if necessary.

Mooney and his wife, Linda, founded the Utah chapter of the Oklevueha
EarthWalks Native American Church in 1997 in Benjamin, near Spanish Fork. In
October 2000, Utah County Sheriff’s deputies raided the church, saying
Mooney was illegally distributing peyote to non-American Indians.

Deputies seized nearly 17,500 peyote buttons in addition to the church’s
computers and records. Mooney and his wife were arrested the next month and
posted bond; the Utah chapter of the church has since declared bankruptcy.

In 2001, the Mooneys were charged with 10 first-degree felony counts of
operating a controlled substance criminal enterprise, and one count of
racketeering, a second-degree felony. The couple faced life in prison for
the charges. In June, the Utah Supreme Court ordered those charges
dismissed.

In an interview with the Daily Herald, Mooney said he believes Utah County
attorney Kay Bryson is encouraging the federal charges because his office
lost the Supreme Court case. Mooney has written a letter to U.S. Sen. Orrin
Hatch, R-Utah, asking for intervention.

“I feel and think this is Mr. Bryson’s last ditch effort to cover up his
inappropriate behaviors, raiding a legally, lawfully established church, and
for arresting three of its spiritual leaders,” said Mooney.

Speaking to the Daily Herald late Thursday, Bryson said he had “no response”
to Mooney’s comments about him.

“I can tell you that the Justice Department was unhappy with the decision
that came from our state Supreme Court, and that the contact between my
office and federal authorities was initiated by federal authorities,” he
said.

Mooney said if ward leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints were prosecuted in the same way for distributing the sacrament to
church members, there would be an outcry of religious persecution. Any
erosion of religious freedom threatens other churches, he said.

“I would like people to really understand what is at stake here,” he said.
“This puts all religions at risk.”

Mooney said he is confident that when the Justice Department reviews all the
facts of the case, no charges will be brought against him.

Melodie Rydalch, spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office, declined to
comment.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:38:42 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Preston,
I was hoping you could clear up a few queries for me please?

I too will swear to my grave, no matter what is said by anyone else, that
at
the 12 hour mark, when I first came to my senses again, I was in full on
withdrawals, and hating every freakin second of it- it was the worst
sensation, to come out of such beautiful visions into such hell, and it
took
all night to get me to take the first booster hit.

***When you say it took you all night to take your booster hit,do you mean
your original first dose, or do you mean after you awoke 12 hours later
hanging out,
that it took all night to talk you into taking the next dose?,

I hated the feeling, and
all I could think of was that the providers had not only my meds but all
the
others’ who’d been treated too.
I was pissed off and sick as a dog- but once I took the two boosters
and

***How long were you hanging out for before you took another dose?,
and once you took the next dose,how long was it before you started feeling
comfortable again
With thanks
and smiles Jasen(Aus)
went through another day’s tripping my brains out, I was fine and finished
completely with the withdrawals. I also did NOT get sick and throw up,
which
as you note mighta had something to do with your results.
Peace and love, and best thoughts to you,
Preston

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]Sean, Preston and Mark
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:31:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No,
Thank You Hattie.
But I want to say publicly that of the three of us here in NYC who’ve
recently taken ibogaine, Sean is most impressive to me, in that he’s older
and I imagine even more used to, or set, in his using patterns- so his
breaking them, while staying at his parents and doing it in his parents’
presense no less, impresses the hell outta me. He just seems to be moving
steadily forward, and I’m very much enjoying watching/reading about it, or
at least, he’s inspiring me even when I don’t pay that close of attention.
(I get selfish and pay a lot of attention to myself and my own issues and
troubles actually, which sometimes leaves me feeling guilty, which I think
is probably pretty silly but still- and it’s a major reason why I don’t want
to undergo group therapy, because I don’t always want to deal with other
people’s shit, although I am going today mainly because I want to meet Sean
face to face).
On a slightly related note- I’ve been noticing that I’m really feeling
very blue today, not so happy at all and actually very depressed. I’m not
sure why. I think it’s partly due to the reaction I had from someone towards
me yesterday, someone who in any other situation would have had my utmost
respect and props, and did have it until I got his attitude, (which to be
very honest coulda just been me being paranoid too, which leaves me feeling
even worse about it) – V pointed out to me this morning that she suspects
that because I want everyone to like me, or at least get along with me, and
do tend to usually get very positive feedback from people, that when I do
come across someone who either blows me off or disrespects me, or whatever
unpositive thing I feel/think they Might be doing/acting towards me really
affects me, me being a sensitive type and all.
She may have a good point- I’m not sure. I’m going to be very
disappointed in myself if this is really the case and that’s the cause of my
blue feelings. Then again, it may be better to actually have an explaination
for it, no matter how stupid or silly, rather than continue to think that
I’m feeling like shit for no reason at all.
So I guess the Golden Time is wearing off already, and now I’m dealing
with life on its own terms again- ick. (I do still get the occasional flash
of trails and gittery vision, as late as last night I was noticing ibo
effects, but they aren’t seemingly doing anything to my mood in a good, or
at least, happyfying way.)
Peace and love to all,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: “Hattie” <epoptica@freeuk.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 6:11 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Preston and Mark

Preston and Mark,

Been keeping up with your experiences and wanted to say that what you have
done is totally brilliant and inspiring ……. and sharing your
experience
provides a really valuable insight for all on the list.  So big THANKS!

Hattie

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From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 27, 2004 at 10:02:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey CHarlie!Glad to run into you!Yeah,I was overjoyed to fing this site,didnt get much reception at opiate detox,now this site is another level!!!Hope to see you soon-shell

cw <chowlee@qwest.net> wrote:
Hi Loop, Shelley,
It’s great to run into both of you again; this is “Fluffy” from “Opiate Detox” site.  I haven’t been there for a while though.  I’ve been focusing on getting as much info on Ibogaine as I can find.
I just started the Suboxone again, a few days ago, so I’m too week to type much; it doesn’t do much for me, but it’s better than nothing.
My quest for Ibogaine/Iboga continues; Suboxone doesn’t have a good record with me ; = (
Take care,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi Loop,glad to see you in another forum!Thanks for your response,I was asking for you I guess,Im not sure that part about AD’s,I know they treat ppl with dual dx with ibo,guess well hear more as time gose on-shell

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley!

I wondered if you were the same Shelley-I use the ‘opiate detox’ website too.  I was probably who you were referring to when you said about the ADs.  I was told by an experienced sitter:

“you would have to wean off the
antidepressants. You MUST NOT be on any medication when you take the
ibogaine. ”

And they also said this about Ibogaine and Subutex:

“Subutex has a half life of between 30 and 60 hours which means your best bet
is to switch from subutex to a shorter acting opiate four or five days
before taking the ibogaine. You mustn’t have any subutex after sixty hours
before treatment ie there has to be sixty hours between last hit of subutex
and ibogaine. Obviously you may feel the withdrawals which makes it safer to
quit subutex five days prior and switch to something else to stabilise. This
is also very important as subutex and ibogaine can be very dangerous.”

I just hope they don’t mind me posting this!  I just wanted to help-I find these confusing yet very important questions to ask!
LOL Hannah (Loop)
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi List,hey Ive been posting on a site called opiate detox talking about ibogaine(theyre all in favor of buprenex),one of the folks there was asking about bup detox with ibo,wouldnt that be just like any other opiate,i know its an anognist/antagonist or some such,also they were saying he had to be off his antidepressant,Ive never heard of that,any body know??????

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
I am now 52 my youngest daughter graduated from Hi School this spring, as you can see I had responsibilities and was surrounded with reasons to make it work, probably much different situation. Make no mistake I was a glutton to the end and still could be. I really wanted to have my youngest daughter have a good environment. I have known for some time that now is when my challenge will really begin, my children are grown and mostly on their own.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:42 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Thanks Brad. I too know that feeling of being on meth and feeling (almost) normal and actually I was thinking back last night on my life on methadone and remembered that when I got on my first program I needed to have a special letter from the state approving the treatment because I was only 16 so I’ve been struggling with this for as long as I can remember. That first period on meth was joke and I I just ended up shooting more dope and coke but the second time around maybe 4 years later for me was very different I was tired and I really wanted to stop and I do admit it did the trick for a while. I went back to school and got my shit together but as I look back on it now it was a lie and that (almost normal) feeling eventually brought me right back out because as we both know being on a meth program eventually makes you feel just about the furthest thing from normal especially if you’ve been able to put your life together in o ther areas. Well that was my experience anyway. Good luck and thank you again and be in touch any time.

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Congratulations “M”, I have followed your journey, waited for your “return” and am happy for you. It was 9 years ago next week, the last time I came out of a Rehab. and was drug free. All of your descriptions have reminded me of those feelings and thoughts, I never took it as serious as it is. The past 5 years MMT has stabilized my life and got me thinking I’m normal, we know better. You and Preston have given me new hope and probably, many others.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Well I think today makes 29 days since I had any dope or meth and it feels great. Its actually my birthday today, which I’ve always hated because it was more a reminder of anything else that I have been addicted for another year. (first did dope on the day after my birthday 12 years ago) But its a new day. I feel like life is just beginning again and life is getting a little better everyday and the only thing that could fuck that up now is by putting any kind of opiate back into my system. I am allergic, simple as that. Break out in detoxes and handcuffs and all that shit. Ya gotta admit some of the little NA slogans are right on.
I slept almost 9 hours last night which was amazing. Still have a few chills here and there and my bowel is still very loose. But it keeps getting a little better everyday and I feel myself getting stronger and stronger and looking better and better everyday.
I can’t tell you all what a difference its made to keep close to the movement and the treatments. I feel as long as I stay connected in that aspect and stay close to the spirit (if you like) I couldn’t imagine ever going backwards.
Good vibes to all and keeping good thought’s for everyone in the pool right now. -M.

jon grocott <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
Hi Jasen,
          the reason dialaudid is prescribed in this case is because of severe pain, most doctors don’t prescribe it for any other reason. It’s ironic though to use strong opiates to help get off methadone, I’ve thought about it myself before. ………. Jon.

>From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re:    Re: [ibogaine] I am the the god of cluck ! pt.2(Australia)

>Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:29:23 +1000

>

>

>   Dear list,

>   Wow,I can’t believe that docters are prescribing dialaudid,this is fantastic.I think it would be a good way to come off methadone.

>   By taking dil’ for say..,3 months,so by then the (most of) the done is out of your system,and comming off would be so much easier.(I am not telling you anything here that most of you wouldn’t already know.)

>   I wish docters over here were prepared to do that. I think the government and medical proffesion here is quite anal concerning addiction sickness.

>   Other than that,we have a pretty good system of government and good docters,it’s just a pity they’re not very open minded concerning addiction.Also a pity that big business,such as pharm’ companies are so mega money orientated.If only……

>

>   If I could transfer onto dialaudid for three months,..wow,..not to get off,but to help get off the done.Although feeling full never goes astray.

>   I would assume it would not be as stressing to the body to come off dialauded as it is the ‘done.

>   Of course no come down is easy,..ay.

>                                                         Jasen (Australia)

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From: mcorcoran <mcorcoran27@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: Hey all…
Date: August 27, 2004 at 9:43:12 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t remember what day  for me it is anymore so no more of that day 29 day 30 shit.  All I do know is this has been the longest time I’ve not been under the influence of dope in one form or another. I quit smoking on Tuesday and believe it or not I’m finding its harder to stop somking that it is for me to not shoot dope, a lot harder. But I think one of the gifts I got from my ibogaine experience was the ability to exert some kind of impulse control, something I could never do in the past, which has made it a million times easier. This feeling of not wanting to harm my body anymore is just so different than anything I’ve ever felt before. I see myself getting stronger and looking better everyday and the motivation I get from that is tremendous. So much more profound than the illusion of dope.  A REAL warmth.
Thanks. -M.

Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:
IS EVERYBODY ON THIS LIST INSANE? OF COURSE AND QUITE PROUD OF IT!!
julian

Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] the only part you missed vector
Date: August 27, 2004 at 8:03:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

IS EVERYBODY ON THIS LIST INSANE? OF COURSE AND QUITE PROUD OF IT!!
julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and change after
Date: August 27, 2004 at 7:58:26 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In reply to this, you are absolutely correct!! It is these individuals that made the decision to not dose me. They are far from irresponsible and I happen to have an immense amount of respect for what they are doing. As a matter of fact I have asked to help them in any way possible. It still doesn’t remove my hostility but their decision was a thought out one and a responsible one!

Julian

From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] 4 questions
Date: August 27, 2004 at 7:50:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HOWARD! You’re good! I got everyone wrong and here I thought I had such a high IQ! If you ever get more, please…….
Julian

From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 6:02:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi J,

How soon did you puke would be my first question. If it was in the first
couple of hours then you could well have lost a substantial amount.

However what you have experienced is not uncommon. During  my experience as
a facilitator I have seen or heard about what you have described (ie the
onset of withdrawals) several times and to be honest more often with women
than men.

Which is something I would like to start enquiring about on this list. How
many women using methadone have done ibogaine and how were their
experiences?? D0oes anyone else have anything to say about this?

Generally methadone does seem to be harder to detox than heroin with
ibogaine. Ibogaine will either completely eliminate or at least severely
reduce heroin withdrawal symptoms whereas with methadone it very rarely
completely eliminates them and more often than not when the ibogaine wears
off withdrawals kick in, although are usually severely reduced and last for
a far shorter time.

I am not recommending that you use heroin, rather that if you can, do
ibogaine with an experienced sitter who will be able to help ease the
withdrawals and help remedy the situation. There are  a number of different
ways of dealing with this situation if and when it arises and each
facilitator would probably give different advice.

Hattie

and >
I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later, the Ibo began to wear off
substantially, and all the too familiar withdrawal
symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I thought it was
psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and began to
meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I was in
almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

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From: Hattie <epoptica@freeuk.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Preston and Mark
Date: August 26, 2004 at 6:11:14 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston and Mark,

Been keeping up with your experiences and wanted to say that what you have
done is totally brilliant and inspiring ……. and sharing your experience
provides a really valuable insight for all on the list.  So big THANKS!

Hattie

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 2:35:19 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Roberta Lapiak <robertalapiak@hotmail.com> wrote:

I used the mindvox site, those lines at the top that were called a
cosmic 8 ball, everything it gave me is not positive. Maybe it knows
how I feel, I’m not sure I needed this much confirmation.

Maybe its psychic? 🙂

.:vector:.

Calling All Gods
“… There’s a New World Rising .. From the Shambles of the Old …”
” … I Wonder is This Work or Play? . I’m Never Really Sure … ”
It’s Just Like 6 Months of REM Sleep in 6 Hours!
” Power Corrupts . Absolute Power is Kinda Neat ”
I Will Not Fall
Aug 11 11:11:13 entropy mach: ttyscc0: receive error 2 (-902)
“Hate, if you want to hate.  If it keeps you safe.  If it makes you
brave.”
” . . . Effect Without a Cause … Subatomic Laws … Scientific Pause
. . . ”
Welcome to the MindVox Reform School for Wayward Supermodels
Hall of Souls
“. . . Ride the Spiral to The End . . .”
Rituals of the Reconstruction
I am The Future … How do You like What you See?
“The Wind of Time is Blowing Through Me … Planets are Moving Relative
to Me”
Reality Distortion Field
Felons & Revolutionaries
LSD 25 / BSD 4.4
Psychedelic Temple of The Apocalypse
“The Rusted Chains of Prison Moons are Shattered by the Sun.”
Yes, but, was I Mature Enough at last night’s Lesbian Masquerade?
“What a Long, Strange Trip it’s Been”
Are you High? That I Am … Watch me Fly, I’m Superman
Releasing Mankind from The Burden of Consciousness
. . . and Fools Shine on . . .
Use Once and Destroy
“May All Beings, Be Happy and Well”
In Philip K. Dick We Trust
POLICE LINE: DO NOT CROSS
Yippie!
[NOW = Won] / [Not Now = Wonton (Soup at WO Hops)]
Bringing the Universe: Peace, Harmony and Fucking Kill Them All
Welcome Friend, Go Away we Hate You
“I’m a GENIUS! I want to dispute sentence structure with SUSAN SONTAG!”
Are YOU a Psychoactive Substance…?

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From: Aktionman22@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] test
Date: August 27, 2004 at 2:26:14 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ignore me………….i’m the village idiot
p,l,&u
marcus

From: “cw” <chowlee@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 27, 2004 at 2:02:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Loop, Shelley,
It’s great to run into both of you again; this is “Fluffy” from “Opiate Detox” site.  I haven’t been there for a while though.  I’ve been focusing on getting as much info on Ibogaine as I can find.
I just started the Suboxone again, a few days ago, so I’m too week to type much; it doesn’t do much for me, but it’s better than nothing.
My quest for Ibogaine/Iboga continues; Suboxone doesn’t have a good record with me ; = (
Take care,
Charlie

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—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi Loop,glad to see you in another forum!Thanks for your response,I was asking for you I guess,Im not sure that part about AD’s,I know they treat ppl with dual dx with ibo,guess well hear more as time gose on-shell

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley!

I wondered if you were the same Shelley-I use the ‘opiate detox’ website too.  I was probably who you were referring to when you said about the ADs.  I was told by an experienced sitter:

“you would have to wean off the
antidepressants. You MUST NOT be on any medication when you take the
ibogaine. ”

And they also said this about Ibogaine and Subutex:

“Subutex has a half life of between 30 and 60 hours which means your best bet
is to switch from subutex to a shorter acting opiate four or five days
before taking the ibogaine. You mustn’t have any subutex after sixty hours
before treatment ie there has to be sixty hours between last hit of subutex
and ibogaine. Obviously you may feel the withdrawals which makes it safer to
quit subutex five days prior and switch to something else to stabilise. This
is also very important as subutex and ibogaine can be very dangerous.”

I just hope they don’t mind me posting this!  I just wanted to help-I find these confusing yet very important questions to ask!
LOL Hannah (Loop)
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi List,hey Ive been posting on a site called opiate detox talking about ibogaine(theyre all in favor of buprenex),one of the folks there was asking about bup detox with ibo,wouldnt that be just like any other opiate,i know its an anognist/antagonist or some such,also they were saying he had to be off his antidepressant,Ive never heard of that,any body know??????

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
I am now 52 my youngest daughter graduated from Hi School this spring, as you can see I had responsibilities and was surrounded with reasons to make it work, probably much different situation. Make no mistake I was a glutton to the end and still could be. I really wanted to have my youngest daughter have a good environment. I have known for some time that now is when my challenge will really begin, my children are grown and mostly on their own.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:42 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Thanks Brad. I too know that feeling of being on meth and feeling (almost) normal and actually I was thinking back last night on my life on methadone and remembered that when I got on my first program I needed to have a special letter from the state approving the treatment because I was only 16 so I’ve been struggling with this for as long as I can remember. That first period on meth was joke and I I just ended up shooting more dope and coke but the second time around maybe 4 years later for me was very different I was tired and I really wanted to stop and I do admit it did the trick for a while. I went back to school and got my shit together but as I look back on it now it was a lie and that (almost normal) feeling eventually brought me right back out because as we both know being on a meth program eventually makes you feel just about the furthest thing from normal especially if you’ve been able to put your life together in o ther areas. Well that was my experience anyway. Good luck and thank you again and be in touch any time.

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Congratulations “M”, I have followed your journey, waited for your “return” and am happy for you. It was 9 years ago next week, the last time I came out of a Rehab. and was drug free. All of your descriptions have reminded me of those feelings and thoughts, I never took it as serious as it is. The past 5 years MMT has stabilized my life and got me thinking I’m normal, we know better. You and Preston have given me new hope and probably, many others.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Well I think today makes 29 days since I had any dope or meth and it feels great. Its actually my birthday today, which I’ve always hated because it was more a reminder of anything else that I have been addicted for another year. (first did dope on the day after my birthday 12 years ago) But its a new day. I feel like life is just beginning again and life is getting a little better everyday and the only thing that could fuck that up now is by putting any kind of opiate back into my system. I am allergic, simple as that. Break out in detoxes and handcuffs and all that shit. Ya gotta admit some of the little NA slogans are right on.
I slept almost 9 hours last night which was amazing. Still have a few chills here and there and my bowel is still very loose. But it keeps getting a little better everyday and I feel myself getting stronger and stronger and looking better and better everyday.
I can’t tell you all what a difference its made to keep close to the movement and the treatments. I feel as long as I stay connected in that aspect and stay close to the spirit (if you like) I couldn’t imagine ever going backwards.
Good vibes to all and keeping good thought’s for everyone in the pool right now. -M.

jon grocott <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
Hi Jasen,
          the reason dialaudid is prescribed in this case is because of severe pain, most doctors don’t prescribe it for any other reason. It’s ironic though to use strong opiates to help get off methadone, I’ve thought about it myself before. ………. Jon.

>From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re:    Re: [ibogaine] I am the the god of cluck ! pt.2(Australia)

>Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:29:23 +1000

>

>

>   Dear list,

>   Wow,I can’t believe that docters are prescribing dialaudid,this is fantastic.I think it would be a good way to come off methadone.

>   By taking dil’ for say..,3 months,so by then the (most of) the done is out of your system,and comming off would be so much easier.(I am not telling you anything here that most of you wouldn’t already know.)

>   I wish docters over here were prepared to do that. I think the government and medical proffesion here is quite anal concerning addiction sickness.

>   Other than that,we have a pretty good system of government and good docters,it’s just a pity they’re not very open minded concerning addiction.Also a pity that big business,such as pharm’ companies are so mega money orientated.If only……

>

>   If I could transfer onto dialaudid for three months,..wow,..not to get off,but to help get off the done.Although feeling full never goes astray.

>   I would assume it would not be as stressing to the body to come off dialauded as it is the ‘done.

>   Of course no come down is easy,..ay.

>                                                         Jasen (Australia)

What type of MSN user are you? Take our quick quiz and find out! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Roberta Lapiak” <robertalapiak@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 27, 2004 at 1:39:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Could you please tell me if you were detoxed from methadone? Changing from methadone is a bad idea I think, I don’t think you are going to be able to taper down from it I’ve had that idea so many times but it has never worked out for me.

Did the ethnogarden work to detox you and then after this you need another dose? I am trying to understand what everyone is saying. Did you get past the sickness or were you in complete withdrawl? Are you on a lower dose now or did it stay at the same level?

Did anything change for the better is what I mean?

I used the mindvox site, those lines at the top that were called a cosmic 8 ball, everything it gave me is not positive. Maybe it knows how I feel, I’m not sure I needed this much confirmation.

MindVox: Last Exit For The Lost

“…Feeling like a Freak on a Leash / Feeling like I Have no Release…”
Slipping into Darkness
a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of I’m Dead & Incoherent Technologies, Inc.
“…Things have Never been so Swell / And I have Never Felt so Well…”
“Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid of that which is best in yourself.”
“Blank Stare . Disrepair . There’s a Big Black Hole . Gonna Eat Me Up . Someday”
When you’re tired of the Lesser of Two Evils: Cthulhu for President
“… .. . Think About . How many Times . I have Fallen . .. …”
Hooray Drugs!
“Sick of your religions … Full of shit opinions … So tired of waiting to die.”
” . Open up your Hate . and Let it Flow into Me . ”
Dopefiend Blues
War is Peace / Slavery is Freedom / Ignorance is Strength : Vote Bush!

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:35:40 -0700 (PDT)

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later(14/15 hour mark), the Ibo began to
wear off substantially, and all the too familiar
withdrawal symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I
thought it was psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and
began to meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I
was in almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

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From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction
Date: August 27, 2004 at 12:27:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ryan! Good decision you have made to take the plunge!
Will you share more about yourself if you feel comfortable?
Look forward to getting to know you better!
Callie

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Follow-up Treatment NYC
Date: August 27, 2004 at 12:22:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean,
That sounds good. I wasn’t sure what the situation was.
I do think that more sessions are inevitable and need to be provided for in some way. Maybe thats already been discussed. No need to respond on that.
Peace
Lee

UUSEAN@aol.com wrote:

Hi Lee,

I didn’t post this in response to another post today concerning post ibo, because I just posted info last night that there is in fact a post ibo support group forming in NYC….first meeting tomorrow.  None of us in New York were left high and dry. I am not implying you said we were, but I want to make the point clear.  Our providers connected us with someone well versed in ibogaine therapy.

Concerning aftercare though, I am really impressed that the ibo providers in NYC did not push any one paradigm on anybody.  They just suggested that an aftercare plan be in place.  I started therapy before I dosed, and am continuing that therapy now.
I have found that I have made a Quantum leap since dosing in therapy.  My therapist confirmed this tonight.

Speaking for myself, this NY area dude feels taken care of concerning post ibo. My real goal post ibo is to get out of small circles talking about staining clean..and instead living life large!  And helping the next junkie/crackhead/tweeker to be initiated:)

Pax,
sean

Sean

Iboga – The Root of Hope

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: <ap@feralhouse.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
Date: August 26, 2004 at 11:45:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston: I wanted to congratulate you on yr Iboga experience. Can you let me know what’s going on with High Times in a
direct email to ap@feralhouse.com?

Beast wishes,

Adam Parfrey

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:32 , ‘Preston Peet’ <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> sent:

HI all,
As noted in the forward to this interview, all my recording devices are
broken, so I had to write the answer out longhand during the interview,
which meant I didn’t get to go into the nitty gritty like I really wanted
to- hence this is a bit of a shallow interview overall- still, some of you
might be a little bit interested in the pithy replies I managed to scrawl
down legibly enough to transcribe tonight.
Peace and love to all,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm
NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004

images taken from Meyaya, at iboga.org

(image)
Gathering ibogaine at the source in Africa

On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower East Side, between my own
first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African root that has been
reported useful in the kicking of a variety of substance addictions and
self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers and private individuals,
I carried out the following interview. I met in Tompkins Square Park with
FM, who for the month of August was leading a band of guerilla ibogaine
treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of people with ibogaine for
myriad reasons.

Having been one of the lucky few who made contact with this group and was
initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was interested in hearing more
about the man who made this experience possible for me and many other New
York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 11:42:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/26/04 9:26:26 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Howard,

I waited  about 30 hours from the time of my last
methadone dosage.  I took 100-200mg test dosage,
waited 20 minutes, and then took about 500mg, which I
promptly threw up about an hour later.  I think that
was my problem- I didn’t stagger my doses enough, and
my body couldn’t take it.  I should also mention that
I had been fasting for 24 hours.

Positive Notes: I had fantastic visuals- better than
any other psychotropic substance I have ever touched.
Faces of African and Native American people whirled by
my mind’s eye, and a lot of interesting 3D effects:
cubes, Escher-type staircases.  VERY COOL.  I also
felt like I made peace with a few moments from my
past.  All in all, very therapeutic, while it lasted.

I would like to take Ibogaine again.  I DEFINITELY
noticed the withdrawal attenuating effects for the
first 14 hours.  I believe that under the right
circumstances, Ibogaine could be an incredible healing
power….

You don’t account for 1000mg that you indicated in your first post.  That
being said, how did you determine 1000mg was the dose for you?  And What dose of
methadone are you now taking?  Same? Less? More?  And why that amount?

How long was it before you were able to sleep?  Did you take a sedative?
What is your age?  What is your weight?

Exactly describe your withdrawal signs.  You can go to
http://ibogaine.org/manual.html#withdraw to check charts for objective and subjective opioid
withdrawal signs.

Thanks

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 11:42:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/26/04 5:03:33 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Hi J and everyone,

Personally I can’t say what went wrong,
When you do the session without an expert
It can go wrong, it can go wrong also with an expert
Only then you can talk about it , now it is hard to say
What went wrong. we don’t know if your ibogaine was
Exposed to day light or not, how you treat it before taking it.
How you treated yourself before taking it. I also can give you another
idea
of what I think and
The treatment providers who are experts will tell you same thing
Each person has another body tolerance to ibo.
You can’t know it by yourself, you think that one gram is enough
But it isn’t. you should have got more , in my opinion , when
The withdrawals started, 14 hours later. How much more ibogaine
It is hard to say, it is for an expert to say, a person who has
Experience with treatments.
The same amount of ibo. Could be just fine for someone else.
Ethnogarden, when they provide the ibogaine on the free market
then for sure some people will
have a negative experience and try to blame it on Ethnogarden ibo..
But then the people who have a good experience will not complain.

Better information could not be provided.  Unless one is there to observe it
is just not possible to tell what is happening and even then, not always.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
Date: August 26, 2004 at 11:32:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
As noted in the forward to this interview, all my recording devices are
broken, so I had to write the answer out longhand during the interview,
which meant I didn’t get to go into the nitty gritty like I really wanted
to- hence this is a bit of a shallow interview overall- still, some of you
might be a little bit interested in the pithy replies I managed to scrawl
down legibly enough to transcribe tonight.
Peace and love to all,
Preston

http://www.drugwar.com/ibonyc.shtm
NYC’s Guerilla Ibogaine Treatments- a brief discussion
by Preston Peet
for DrugWar.com
posted at DrugWar.com
August 26, 2004

images taken from Meyaya, at iboga.org

(image)
Gathering ibogaine at the source in Africa

On a gorgeous sunny afternoon in Manhattan’s Lower East Side, between my own
first and second sessions on ibogaine, an African root that has been
reported useful in the kicking of a variety of substance addictions and
self-abuse patterns in the West by many researchers and private individuals,
I carried out the following interview. I met in Tompkins Square Park with
FM, who for the month of August was leading a band of guerilla ibogaine
treatment facilitators, treating an assortment of people with ibogaine for
myriad reasons.

Having been one of the lucky few who made contact with this group and was
initiated and treated with ibogaine HCL, I was interested in hearing more
about the man who made this experience possible for me and many other New
York City addicts.
snip-
Read interview at above URL

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 9:33:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

I waited  about 30 hours from the time of my last
methadone dosage.  I took 100-200mg test dosage,
waited 20 minutes, and then took about 500mg, which I
promptly threw up about an hour later.  I think that
was my problem- I didn’t stagger my doses enough, and
my body couldn’t take it.  I should also mention that
I had been fasting for 24 hours.

Positive Notes: I had fantastic visuals- better than
any other psychotropic substance I have ever touched.
Faces of African and Native American people whirled by
my mind’s eye, and a lot of interesting 3D effects:
cubes, Escher-type staircases.  VERY COOL.  I also
felt like I made peace with a few moments from my
past.  All in all, very therapeutic, while it lasted.

I would like to take Ibogaine again.  I DEFINITELY
noticed the withdrawal attenuating effects for the
first 14 hours.  I believe that under the right
circumstances, Ibogaine could be an incredible healing
power….

Thanks Howard,
J.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail – 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick
Date: August 26, 2004 at 10:13:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey S,

I think supportive community is damned important.  That seems to happening here.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] (completely OT) Re: [ibogaine] spell check gone wild
Date: August 26, 2004 at 10:12:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL..I wanna be a white rapper…AC casino yo!:)

Pax out,
Sean

PS Preston, man, when your stoned you tend to double post.  Have you noticed this?
s

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 10:11:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

As one who ODd four times this year, I can testify to what you say.  My harm reduction was sniffing instead of banging….until I got to now where I don’t use the shit at all.

I have been to at least five funerals of friends who overdosed and died because they shot up after being detected.  Heroin is no fucking joke, as most of here know.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 9:55:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi J,

All experiences positive and not so positive are welcome here in my increasing less humble opinion.  Balance is really important.  Others have already addressed the specifics of your post.  Anway..welcome.

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Follow-up Treatment NYC
Date: August 26, 2004 at 9:49:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,

I didn’t post this in response to another post today concerning post ibo, because I just posted info last night that there is in fact a post ibo support group forming in NYC….first meeting tomorrow.  None of us in New York were left high and dry. I am not implying you said we were, but I want to make the point clear.  Our providers connected us with someone well versed in ibogaine therapy.

Concerning aftercare though, I am really impressed that the ibo providers in NYC did not push any one paradigm on anybody.  They just suggested that an aftercare plan be in place.  I started therapy before I dosed, and am continuing that therapy now.
I have found that I have made a Quantum leap since dosing in therapy.  My therapist confirmed this tonight.

Speaking for myself, this NY area dude feels taken care of concerning post ibo. My real goal post ibo is to get out of small circles talking about staining clean..and instead living life large!  And helping the next junkie/crackhead/tweeker to be initiated:)

Pax,
sean

Sean

From: UUSEAN@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction
Date: August 26, 2004 at 9:37:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Welcome Ryan!

Sean

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 9:12:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I do agree with Howard as far as the heroin goes. If you can continue your
Methadone, that is what I would do. I just don’t ever plan to do H again. I
have come so close to death by OD a couple of times I would be too
frightened to do it again. (unless I was real sick!!!) Seriously, I would
avoid heroin as long as I could.<

I just found out (while hanging around Tomkins Square Park on set all day
Monday doing nothing but watching and bumping into a mess of messed up
people I used to get high with almost a decade ago) Bobbie Bratts overdosed
last year- (a local junkie/punk rocker who was around for ever and did
prison time for killing a dope dealer who hit his girlfriend years and years
ago) he had wanted to get off his methadone for ages, and apparently finally
just stopped taking it. Sick, he copped a couple bags, shot them both and
went right the fuck out. This was a guy who could bang 8 bag at a clip
without blinking, no problem at all. But after having been on the meth for
so long, then putting himself into a drastically stressed, weakened state by
cold-kicking meth, his resistance was shot to hell to excuse a pun- or who
really knows why he died that time and not others? That’s another thing-
it’s impossible to know with street dope what it is going to take to kill.
It could be for so many different reasons too, not just because of purity or
steppedonedness conditions.
Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

In a message dated 8/26/2004 4:14:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
carlambarnes@yahoo.com writes:
Is there one person? Anyone?

Carla, you are correct. I know I remember one other person who was very
disappointed with the lack of results he got from Ethnogarden Ibogaine.
I have not done Ibogaine but what J describes sounds like he took a very
weak dose. He was experiencing euphoria and positivity and even able to eat.
The other recent accounts of Ibogaine do not describe those feelings until
after the visions and ataxia are over.
I would be willing to bet that it may very well be Ibogaine they are selling
but a very weakened maybe even ‘stepped on’ version.
I am sorry J. I know it must be very disappointing to get hyped up to only
be let down.
I do agree with Howard as far as the heroin goes. If you can continue your
Methadone, that is what I would do. I just don’t ever plan to do H again. I
have come so close to death by OD a couple of times I would be too
frightened to do it again. (unless I was real sick!!!) Seriously, I would
avoid heroin as long as I could.
Please keep us posted.
Peace, Callie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Oct. 11 thingy
Date: August 26, 2004 at 8:51:06 PM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI all,
I realized today that Oct. 11 is actually when I’m doing an interview or talk with Dean Becker on his Drug Truth Network radio show, to talk about ibogaine, Under the Influence, and the war on some drugs and users.
I mention this because now I don’t exactly know when that MAPS dance thingy is and I’d written that it was on Oct. 11- hence my explaining why that date was in my mind- I have to look again, or perhaps someone less stoned (on pot) could inform me of the actual dance/event date and save me the trouble of looking it up?
Peace and love all,
Preston
From: CallieMimosa@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 7:16:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/26/2004 4:14:12 PM Central Daylight Time, carlambarnes@yahoo.com writes:
Is there one person? Anyone?

Carla, you are correct. I know I remember one other person who was very disappointed with the lack of results he got from Ethnogarden Ibogaine.
I have not done Ibogaine but what J describes sounds like he took a very weak dose. He was experiencing euphoria and positivity and even able to eat. The other recent accounts of Ibogaine do not describe those feelings until after the visions and ataxia are over.
I would be willing to bet that it may very well be Ibogaine they are selling but a very weakened maybe even ‘stepped on’ version.
I am sorry J. I know it must be very disappointing to get hyped up to only be let down.
I do agree with Howard as far as the heroin goes. If you can continue your Methadone, that is what I would do. I just don’t ever plan to do H again. I have come so close to death by OD a couple of times I would be too frightened to do it again. (unless I was real sick!!!) Seriously, I would avoid heroin as long as I could.
Please keep us posted.
Peace, Callie

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 6:02:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi J and everyone,

Personally I can’t say what went wrong,
When you do the session without an expert
It can go wrong, it can go wrong also with an expert
Only then you can talk about it , now it is hard to say
What went wrong. we don’t know if your ibogaine was
Exposed to day light or not, how you treat it before taking it.
How you treated yourself before taking it. I also can give you another idea
of what I think and
The treatment providers who are experts will tell you same thing
Each person has another body tolerance to ibo.
You can’t know it by yourself, you think that one gram is enough
But it isn’t. you should have got more , in my opinion , when
The withdrawals started, 14 hours later. How much more ibogaine
It is hard to say, it is for an expert to say, a person who has
Experience with treatments.
The same amount of ibo. Could be just fine for someone else.
Ethnogarden, when they provide the ibogaine on the free market
then for sure some people will
have a negative experience and try to blame it on Ethnogarden ibo..
But then the people who have a good experience will not complain.

S.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: donderdag 26 augustus 2004 23:13
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

Besides all of what Howard wrote down, the other
problem could be ethnogarden. At least on time every 3
months there is someone on this list who uses their
ibogaine and isn’t happy with it. I think the last one
was Brooke the one who does Broken Saints.
http://www.brokensaints.com How are you doing Brooke?

Then someone else asked if there was ever even one
person on this list who had a good experience with
their ibogaine and nobody said anything. I know the
person jason who runs the site posted photos of
ibogaine plants here and was a nice guy but so far
there hasn’t been even one person here who used their
ibogaine and got good resuls.

Is there one person? Anyone?

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and
am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo
‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I
do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL
extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.
How
wrong I was….

About an hour later(14/15 hour mark), the Ibo began
to
wear off substantially, and all the too familiar
withdrawal symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I
thought it was psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes
and
began to meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I
was in almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening
myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to
talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

_______________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 5:46:28 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I too will swear to my grave, no matter what is said by anyone else, that at
the 12 hour mark, when I first came to my senses again, I was in full on
withdrawals, and hating every freakin second of it- it was the worst
sensation, to come out of such beautiful visions into such hell, and it took
all night to get me to take the first booster hit. I hated the feeling, and
all I could think of was that the providers had not only my meds but all the
others’ who’d been treated too.
I was pissed off and sick as a dog- but once I took the two boosters and
went through another day’s tripping my brains out, I was fine and finished
completely with the withdrawals. I also did NOT get sick and throw up, which
as you note mighta had something to do with your results.
Peace and love, and best thoughts to you,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?

In a message dated 8/26/04 3:15:59 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later, the Ibo began to wear off
substantially, and all the too familiar withdrawal
symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I thought it was
psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and began to
meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I was in
almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

The last thing I would suggest you doing is getting involved with heroin.
Do
you not have enough problems?

What dose of methadone are you taking now?

How long after your last dose of methadone did you take the ibogaine?

How soon after you took the ibogaine did you throw up?

Whether you throw up or not would not be an issue if you took the ibogaine
by
enema.  However, if you vacated your bowels after taking ibogaine by enama
the loss of the dose would come to the same thing.

Can you describe any other ibogaine effects you experienced?

Anyone else familiar with ethnogarden HCl?

Awaiting information and thanks.

Howard

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Introduction
Date: August 26, 2004 at 5:33:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Mark and welcome to here. My advice is to do
ibogaine 🙂

Carla B

— mark connors <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi All, I’m a new (tweaker) member of this list.
I’ve been considering
Ibogaine treatment for several years now and have
decided to take the plung.
Just thought I would introduce myself and welcome
any suggestions. Ryan C.

_______________________________
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick
Date: August 26, 2004 at 5:27:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Steven Anker <stevenanker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Second off, another Patrick trashing? For fucks sake
people! Gboy, what’s
the matter, your mom not hug you enough? Last I
checked, most people are a
combination of good and bad, and I believe that if
the good outweighs the
bad, as in Patrick’s case, then fuck it, I like ’em!
Yin and yang, good and
evil also supply the vital energy that powers the
universe. Some Bwiti dude
told me “evil is the fire of the engine.”

My other friend Patrick always says “There’s no such
thing as good and bad,
only dull and amusing… and you’re not dull.” This
is after me moaning
about what a bad and evil person I am after some
transgression of one sort
or the other.

Welcome back Steven 🙂 You said that in a really
great way 🙂 What it reminded me of are those tag
lines that top Mindvox which vector posted, Patrick
says it in a different way and says the same thing 🙂
Darth Vader on acid is really hot, the psycho parts
are yummy 🙂 Hi Patrick answer email once every 6
months at least? 😉 Give Vector his email already, I
agree with that, he did a lot with cut and paste and
was funny, he’s not being 18 anymore another 5 years
and he might even be interesting 😉

I don’t know how to quote a lot of messages all into
one like some of you do, so here was vector’s message,
I can only cut and paste 🙁

Love to everyone here

Carla B

From: vector620022002@yahoo.com
Subject: [ibogaine] mindvox cosmic 8ball
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Myresearch has proven that mindvox and cannabis go
great together, I
haven’t gone through the whole thing in a while 🙂 its
perfectly
insane.

so is ibogaine.mindvox.com except after looking at
everything here now it’s living… it is like it hasa
all this energy there that keeps
growing. its like entheogns meet the street, which is
what you write
patrick. the images and art gallery is amazing. thank
you. you and dave
should make it into a productor something, the cosmic
8ball 🙂

Here’s what the cosmic 8ball called MindVox, see
patrick I have started
capitilizing the v that shouldn’t be out of respect 😉
gave me tongiht.
how many of these are there they dont ever end
thousands more? yes I
know what isn’t in quotes are yours patrick and
(C)(TM) dont sue me I
am only putting your own words back to your site! 🙂

.:vector:.

cosmic 8ball tag lines for tonight

.. I Hate Grownups ..
“What Doesn’t Kill Me … Makes Me Stronger”
This is NOT the Summer of Love
‘Scuse me, gotta go … I have my Parole Officer
hanging on a Meathook
in the Basement
Say…  Is there Anything Interesting in your Mom’s
Medicine Cabinet?”
Saturated with over 100mg/kg of Ibogaine per Inode
Do you Have a Warrant?
The Heroin & Hallucinogens World Tour
” … All my Kings have Fallen Down / Broken Heroes
Feed the Ground …

“If, at first an idea is not absurd, there is no hope
for it.”
Now Featuring: Downloadable Opiate Plug-In!
Power Underneath Despair
Somebody Please Help Me … I’ve Lost All My Molecules
MindVox Transcendental Enlightenment Temple / Heroin
Maintenance Clinic
When All Else Fails: Try Crack!
” … I Hate to Bleed . But it Heals my Pain … ”
At War with The Whole Entire Universe
” … It’s been my Death since I was Born … ”
Welcome to: Tranquillity Acres, Therapeutic Community
Space Ghost is NOT a Beta Carboline
Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex
DSM-IV Simplified: (Please Select) [1] Completely
Fucking Crazy, or [2]
Full of Shit.
The Last Gathering of The Usual Suspects
I am your War Machine / I am your Ghetto Scene
Live at CBGB’s: Gweeds with Unicorn Rainbow & The
Trustafarians
[cDc] Information is Junk Mail / The Tedium is The
Message [cDc]
Basking within the Warm Glow of Celestial Love, Light,
and that Purple
Shit
[-] Total Information Awareness [-]
“.. .Into a Psychic War … I Tear my Soul Apart and
Eat it Some More.
..”
Your Enemies are Plotting Against You
So much Love, Light and Positive Energy, you’ll Vomit!
Peace… or Eternal War / Either One is Okay
Your Phones are Tapped
Post-human, Fully Deconstructed and Completely
Incoherent
Merry Apocalypse and a Happy Kali Yuga
The MindVox Celestial Omnibus is Now Boarding
.By Divine Right, Motherfucker.
Bwiti [INSIDE]
Live Long and Prosper / Fuck Off and Die
Now Includes: a Strange Fractal Quality that
Self-Organizes across All
Planes
We Love You and would never Plot to Kill You
“I’ve Found a Way to Steal the Sun from The Sky”
MindVox Bail Bonds . Providing Services Nationwide
[Hot City] ro0lz mahn . 125th & Lexington .
(3am/EST)”,
Welcome to Hunt’s Point Industrial Park! Featuring:
Coke, Dope & Ho’s
“Whomever Controls your Perception of Reality,
Controls You”
I want What i Want what I want What I Want what i want
whaT
It’s all Spiritual n’ Shit
To All The Drugs that I’ve Done: This One’s For You
Recent Scientific Studies Strongly Suggest that you’re
Totally Fucked
“Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively
maladjusted.”
” . . . I Adapt to The Unknown … Under Wandering
Stars I Roam . . . ”
“Actually, what I’d Really Like is a Little Toy
Spaceship”
Welcome to the First Church of MindVox / Escort Agency
Facts only Get in The Way of Things
Cytochrome P4502D6 Catalyzes the O-Demethylation of
0-Day old WareZ
Temple of Pain
“Life is What you Make It . And if you Make it Death,
Well Then you can
Rest your Soul”
[EXIT]
Welcome to: MindVox Theoretical Macromolecular
Modeling Bioinformatics
Group, Inc
“I’ve seen everything imaginable, pass before these
eyes.”
Mainlining God and Freebasing Spirit
I Love My Hate
“These Words I Write Keep Me from Total Madness”
Dear Mr. Fantasy … Fuck The Police State
Warning, Site Contains: Undead, Starving, Rabid,
Electrified Attack
Dogs on Speed wid Gatz
Straight Outta Detox
.I’m Sick Inside my Mind . Red Lights Flashing By .
Wires Crossed
Inside.
“.I don’t Wear a Mask . and I have No Regrets.”
The Dope Show
Suicide Kings & Trauma Queens
Why do you have to be Such a Bitch?
Love Kills
I’m Very Sorry … Have I Done an INCORRECT THING?
Now Includes: Flying UFO Stealth Blimps
“I’m focused on what I’m after … the key to the next
open chapter.”

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 5:13:17 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Besides all of what Howard wrote down, the other
problem could be ethnogarden. At least on time every 3
months there is someone on this list who uses their
ibogaine and isn’t happy with it. I think the last one
was Brooke the one who does Broken Saints.
http://www.brokensaints.com How are you doing Brooke?

Then someone else asked if there was ever even one
person on this list who had a good experience with
their ibogaine and nobody said anything. I know the
person jason who runs the site posted photos of
ibogaine plants here and was a nice guy but so far
there hasn’t been even one person here who used their
ibogaine and got good resuls.

Is there one person? Anyone?

Carla B

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and
am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo
‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I
do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL
extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.
How
wrong I was….

About an hour later(14/15 hour mark), the Ibo began
to
wear off substantially, and all the too familiar
withdrawal symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I
thought it was psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes
and
began to meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I
was in almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening
myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to
talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

_______________________________
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 3:35:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later(14/15 hour mark), the Ibo began to
wear off substantially, and all the too familiar
withdrawal symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I
thought it was psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and
began to meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I
was in almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush

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From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 4:32:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds like it may have been better to have done it in a clinic, methadone is tougher than smack. You probablly couldn’t afford? Can you do it under medical supervision? Was someone with you? In my little opinion vomiting isn’t bad. What they do in Gabon is feed it to you until you puke. Part of it, you know… They wait and see what you are seeing and then if you need more, more is fed. Until you puke again. HCL is very different from the bark though. Are you back on opiates? Plenty of ibo/methadone folk out there who have some sage advice. And no, very excellent that you posted with honesty, no rules broken.

Take care,
Steve.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:56:32 -0700 (PDT)

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later, the Ibo began to wear off
substantially, and all the too familiar withdrawal
symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I thought it was
psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and began to
meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I was in
almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

__________________________________________________
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 4:32:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/26/04 3:15:59 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later, the Ibo began to wear off
substantially, and all the too familiar withdrawal
symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I thought it was
psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and began to
meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I was in
almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

The last thing I would suggest you doing is getting involved with heroin.  Do
you not have enough problems?

What dose of methadone are you taking now?

How long after your last dose of methadone did you take the ibogaine?

How soon after you took the ibogaine did you throw up?

Whether you throw up or not would not be an issue if you took the ibogaine by
enema.  However, if you vacated your bowels after taking ibogaine by enama
the loss of the dose would come to the same thing.

Can you describe any other ibogaine effects you experienced?

Anyone else familiar with ethnogarden HCl?

Awaiting information and thanks.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Ibogaine- why didn’t it work?
Date: August 26, 2004 at 2:56:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

I am a new member, a recent Ibogaine inductee, and am
currently starting the second week of my Ibo ‘detox’.
I wish I had a more positive story to relay, but I do
not.  I hope I am not breaking any list etiquette by
posting this…

I detoxed from methadone(35mg) using 1gm HCL extract,
98%, from Ethnogarden, and for the first 13-14 hours
was convinced I was over opiates- no pain, lots and
lots of euphoria/positivity.  I was even able to eat
small amounts of Cheerios and drink apple juice.  How
wrong I was….

About an hour later, the Ibo began to wear off
substantially, and all the too familiar withdrawal
symptoms began to slowly creep in.  I thought it was
psychosomatic, so I closed my eyes and began to
meditate, but to no avail.  Within hours, I was in
almost full withdrawal.

I think my problem was that I puked part of my Ibo
dose WAY TOO SOON, and did not have another gram of
the HCL to boost me.  I am considering weening myself
from methadone by chipping with heroin, and then
detoxing from the heroin with Ibo.  Has anyone done
this?  Also, would administering the Ibo by enema
quell a bit of the nausea?

Thanks for the time to vent, list, and I hope to talk
to many more of you soon.

J.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [ibogaine] Follow-up Treatment NYC
Date: August 26, 2004 at 3:56:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi!
Follow-up Treatment NYC
I think an association of members who have been recently treated in NYC needs to form whereby they pool their resources.
I suggest that a fund be set up and each member contribute on a regular basis to build up a cash flow into the foreseeable future, as successful treatment can be ongoing for up to 6 years.
The combined cash flow will bring in a cheaper supply of Ibo-HCL to be administered when needed. Most members of the group should themselves be on call to assist another member in need of a treatment at a given time.
A system of credits can be set up depending on how many treatments one has had, quantity of ibogaine used and the amount of sessions one has given. They can be traded like the Kyoto agreement – maybe call it the Kyoto Group? If someone comes out in credit then at the end point some form of cash refund can be made as some may need less treatment and others more or they can simply sell on their credits to someone else coming in.
Another idea is to set up a program of 6 or 9 major sessions, structure the cost of the ibogaine and treat within the group. Swap treatments. An estimate of the total cost of the ibogaine needed can be made and the member pay in over a period of 2 or 3 years to cover the cost of the ibogaine only. If they need more sessions the price can be adjusted. However in my experience after 6 or 9 treatments, smaller or mini-sessions are in order and they require very little support and can be easily handled by the person themselves. For this they can pay the group for the cost of the ibogaine bought at a reduced price as it is bought in bulk.
Successful treatment is an investment but the costs are prohibitive to complete the program. To buy ibogaine for self administration costs about $200 for a session or $100 for a mini-session. It is only at that level that one can really be comfortable in an ongoing program of ibogaine therapy. Knowing how long it takes for healing, I balk at the idea that one should have to pay $1000 each time minimum. It sounds cheap but really it is expensive to those who need it. And it leaves a person after an initial release from the pain and addiction right back where they started if they cannot continue to be treated and are still not at a stage where they can really benefit from normal therapies.
Of course the group needs to be switched on to the process involved in the overall healing journey. I write a lot about that in my book. They need to be aware of the types of therapy, basically body orientated, that can help, along with the thought processes in their relationships – i.e. to get a grip on the destructive patterns – insight. If the sessions are ongoing they will teach the person to work through these things and give them all the insights they can handle.
Eventually healing arrives and a whole new destination in life has been reached but first a solid program needs to be in place that is not prohibitive. Otherwise I feel in a way its a bit cruel to give one session and leave the person in limbo.
Best to you all,
Lee

Iboga – The Root of Hope

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Introduction
Date: August 26, 2004 at 1:42:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi All, I’m a new (tweaker) member of this list. I’ve been considering Ibogaine treatment for several years now and have decided to take the plung. Just thought I would introduce myself and welcome any suggestions. Ryan C.

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick
Date: August 26, 2004 at 12:37:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 8/26/04 10:29:03 AM, stevenanker@hotmail.com writes:

Another thing, taking ibo multiple times isn’t necessarily the answer to
staying clean. Better post care is. Just an idea. What can we collectively
do to raise the rate of success? Here’s looking at you NYC…

Grow the community, increasing transient iboga energy.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [asa] Introducing the Mental Health Patients Union and the Hep-C Virus Patients Union!!!
Date: August 26, 2004 at 12:11:17 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh yeah,
Howard, with your advice ringing in my ears this morning, I first
went and hung out with Dana just after 8AM for an hour and a half and woke
his ass up, then walked up to HT at around 10 to say hello to friends and
such, then while walking home realized I had steered myself uncoinciously
but directly to and in the front door of the clinic where I first got my
liver checked out and had my post-biopsy discussion with liver doctors,
(turns out it was back in 1998-99). After meandering about this huge
building and wandering the halls  almost in a state of lostness, I found
first the liver clinic office, which gave me my records number, then the
office with the medical records, which is going to mail me mine- all
bloodwork/labs/any material that relates at all to my Hep C- hopefully by
Friday, so I should be able to see soon whether my numbers (at least those
in that panel I showed you) have dropped or not. I think they must have- but
then I am not completely sure. That thing I showed you did NOT show my white
blood cell count, did it? (I mean, does it?)
Thanks for the advice on stopping by there.
I’ve been finding myself thinking every day, “ok, what excuse can I come up
with to get outta this apartment and walk around doin’ stuff?” I walked from
Norfolk and Houston, where I live, to Dana’s, then HT at 28th and Park, then
home again by way of Union Square. That’s a lot of walking really,
especially with my back and leg troubles- then I’ve got a meeting with the
owner of the bar where I’m throwing the book release party and the bassist
of the headlining band (Joker 5 Speed is playing the party it looks like-
don’t yet know who else, but there should be at least one more I think) to
discuss logistics and sound stuff at 1:30 this afternoon, then a 3:30
appointment with Barbara Judd (whose office I visited yesterday thinking the
appointment was yesterday, but it wasn’t it was today- silly me), so I’m
getting out today too. It’s weird- I slept like a rock last night, going to
bed very early, before 11PM for sure, and got up when V got home from work
around 5AM. I did NOT ask her for any pain meds for the fist couple of
hours, then took one of each at around 8AM, or a little after.
So I’m spacing my meds out very responsibly, doing them at the point
where I simply have to have the relief- which is weird too as I’ve got to
then wait another hour pretty much to even get that relief- and it doesn’t
bother me to wait.
LOL!
So have a great day all, and wish everyone well here in the Apple while
the terrorists…errr, Republicans? Blue Meanies? Warmongers? Whatever they
are, wish the rest of us NY’ers well please.
Peace and love to everyone,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2004 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [asa] Introducing the Mental Health Patients
Union and the Hep-C Virus Patients Union!!!

Way to go Preston!!!

Howard

In a message dated 8/26/04 4:56:27 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

So I’ve subscribed to the Hep C and the Chronic Pain union lists- let’s
see what happens, if there is anyone else out there.
I pass on this note to both the ibo and drugwar lists, thinking that with
all these possible subscriptions, there must be someone or other who
might
also be interested in checking this stuff out.
Peace and love to all,

Preston

—– Original Message —–

From: “Stacey Swimme” <stacey@safeaccessnow.org>

To: <asa@lists.riseup.net>; <asa-sf@lists.riseup.net>;

<asa-la@lists.riseup.net>; <asa-sd@lists.riseup.net>;

<wimmj@lists.riseup.net>

Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:30 PM

Subject: [asa] Introducing the Mental Health Patients Union and the Hep-C

Virus Patients Union!!!

Dear ASA friends,

I am very pleased to announce the formation of two new Patients Unions:

The Mental Health Patients Union (MHPU) and the Hepatitis-C Virus

Patients Union (HCVPU)

Several people have expressed interest in a support group for both of

these conditions.

The MHPU and the HCVPU will join with other unions in a demonstration
on

October 5th to *demand that the Department of Health and Human Services

reschedule marijuana and end the war on patients forever!

*You’re invited to join us for the day of lobbying (10/4) and

demonstration (10/5) in DC even if you don’t want to join one of these

unions. If you are a patient or caregiver and you’d like to join a
union

specific to your condition, see below:

*

*To join the *Mental Health Patients Union, *send a blank email to

mmj4mh-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

To join the *Hepatitis-C Virus Patients Union,* send a blank email to

hcvpu-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

To join the *Elders Patients’ Union*, send a blank email to

seniors4mmj-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

<mailto:seniors4mmj@lists.riseup.net>

To join the *HIV/AIDS Survivors Union*, send a blank email to

hapu-subscribe@lists.riseup.net
<mailto:hapu-subscribe@lists.riseup.net>

To join the *Multiple Sclerosis Patients’ Union,* write to

gstorck@immly.org <mailto:gstorck@immly.org>

To join the *Cancer Patients’ Union*, send a blank email to

mmj4cancer-subscribe@lists.riseup.net
<mailto:mmj4cancer@lists.riseup.net>

To join the *Chronic Pain Patients’ Union*, send a blank email to

mmj4cp-subscribe@lists.riseup.net <mailto:mmj4cp@lists.riseup.net>

To start a union based on *any other condition,* contact Stacey Swimme,

_stacey_@safeaccessnow.org <mailto:info@safeaccessnow.org>, or calling

510-486-8083.

To see more about the HHS action, click on

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=1295

Hope to see y’all in Washington DC!

Stacey Swimme

Field Manager

Americans for Safe Access

1700 Shattuck Ave. #317

Berkeley, CA 94709

510-486-8083

www.safeaccessnow.org

Join the fight for medical marijuana rights!

To receive ASA alerts, email asa-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Steven Anker” <stevenanker@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Patrick
Date: August 26, 2004 at 11:28:05 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I have to split for a few weeks on a job, get off the list and when I get back yesterday lookie lookie! All sorts of shit has happened!

First off, I am pleased as punch that Preston, Sean and others have taken the plunge. Cool shit, eh? I’ve always had this strange and hopeful notion that the ibogaine list would have a few more posts from people (gulp) who have actually taken it. Congrats people. I was thinking of you Preston. Excellent that you have a group to chill with.

Second off, another Patrick trashing? For fucks sake people! Gboy, what’s the matter, your mom not hug you enough? Last I checked, most people are a combination of good and bad, and I believe that if the good outweighs the bad, as in Patrick’s case, then fuck it, I like ’em! Yin and yang, good and evil also supply the vital energy that powers the universe. Some Bwiti dude told me “evil is the fire of the engine.”

My other friend Patrick always says “There’s no such thing as good and bad, only dull and amusing… and you’re not dull.” This is after me moaning about what a bad and evil person I am after some transgression of one sort or the other.

My mon says “you can fight evil but not stupid.”

So fuck it.

Let’s move on to that higher dimension.

Another thing, taking ibo multiple times isn’t necessarily the answer to staying clean. Better post care is. Just an idea. What can we collectively do to raise the rate of success? Here’s looking at you NYC…

Best,
S.

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today – it’s FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Fw: [asa] Introducing the Mental Health Patients Union and the Hep-C Virus Patients Union!!!
Date: August 26, 2004 at 10:58:10 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Way to go Preston!!!

Howard

In a message dated 8/26/04 4:56:27 AM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

So I’ve subscribed to the Hep C and the Chronic Pain union lists- let’s
see what happens, if there is anyone else out there.
I pass on this note to both the ibo and drugwar lists, thinking that with
all these possible subscriptions, there must be someone or other who might
also be interested in checking this stuff out.
Peace and love to all,

Preston

—– Original Message —–

From: “Stacey Swimme” <stacey@safeaccessnow.org>

To: <asa@lists.riseup.net>; <asa-sf@lists.riseup.net>;

<asa-la@lists.riseup.net>; <asa-sd@lists.riseup.net>;

<wimmj@lists.riseup.net>

Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:30 PM

Subject: [asa] Introducing the Mental Health Patients Union and the Hep-C

Virus Patients Union!!!

Dear ASA friends,

I am very pleased to announce the formation of two new Patients Unions:

The Mental Health Patients Union (MHPU) and the Hepatitis-C Virus

Patients Union (HCVPU)

Several people have expressed interest in a support group for both of

these conditions.

The MHPU and the HCVPU will join with other unions in a demonstration
on

October 5th to *demand that the Department of Health and Human Services

reschedule marijuana and end the war on patients forever!

*You’re invited to join us for the day of lobbying (10/4) and

demonstration (10/5) in DC even if you don’t want to join one of these

unions. If you are a patient or caregiver and you’d like to join a union

specific to your condition, see below:

*

*To join the *Mental Health Patients Union, *send a blank email to

mmj4mh-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

To join the *Hepatitis-C Virus Patients Union,* send a blank email to

hcvpu-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

To join the *Elders Patients’ Union*, send a blank email to

seniors4mmj-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

<mailto:seniors4mmj@lists.riseup.net>

To join the *HIV/AIDS Survivors Union*, send a blank email to

hapu-subscribe@lists.riseup.net <mailto:hapu-subscribe@lists.riseup.net>

To join the *Multiple Sclerosis Patients’ Union,* write to

gstorck@immly.org <mailto:gstorck@immly.org>

To join the *Cancer Patients’ Union*, send a blank email to

mmj4cancer-subscribe@lists.riseup.net <mailto:mmj4cancer@lists.riseup.net>

To join the *Chronic Pain Patients’ Union*, send a blank email to

mmj4cp-subscribe@lists.riseup.net <mailto:mmj4cp@lists.riseup.net>

To start a union based on *any other condition,* contact Stacey Swimme,

_stacey_@safeaccessnow.org <mailto:info@safeaccessnow.org>, or calling

510-486-8083.

To see more about the HHS action, click on

http://www.safeaccessnow.org/article.php?id=1295

Hope to see y’all in Washington DC!

Stacey Swimme

Field Manager

Americans for Safe Access

1700 Shattuck Ave. #317

Berkeley, CA 94709

510-486-8083

www.safeaccessnow.org

Join the fight for medical marijuana rights!

To receive ASA alerts, email asa-subscribe@lists.riseup.net

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Day 29…
Date: August 26, 2004 at 10:15:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Loop,glad to see you in another forum!Thanks for your response,I was asking for you I guess,Im not sure that part about AD’s,I know they treat ppl with dual dx with ibo,guess well hear more as time gose on-shell

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi Shelley!

I wondered if you were the same Shelley-I use the ‘opiate detox’ website too.  I was probably who you were referring to when you said about the ADs.  I was told by an experienced sitter:

“you would have to wean off the
antidepressants. You MUST NOT be on any medication when you take the
ibogaine. ”

And they also said this about Ibogaine and Subutex:

“Subutex has a half life of between 30 and 60 hours which means your best bet
is to switch from subutex to a shorter acting opiate four or five days
before taking the ibogaine. You mustn’t have any subutex after sixty hours
before treatment ie there has to be sixty hours between last hit of subutex
and ibogaine. Obviously you may feel the withdrawals which makes it safer to
quit subutex five days prior and switch to something else to stabilise. This
is also very important as subutex and ibogaine can be very dangerous.”

I just hope they don’t mind me posting this!  I just wanted to help-I find these confusing yet very important questions to ask!
LOL Hannah (Loop)
—– Original Message —–
From: shelley krupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Hi List,hey Ive been posting on a site called opiate detox talking about ibogaine(theyre all in favor of buprenex),one of the folks there was asking about bup detox with ibo,wouldnt that be just like any other opiate,i know its an anognist/antagonist or some such,also they were saying he had to be off his antidepressant,Ive never heard of that,any body know??????

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
I am now 52 my youngest daughter graduated from Hi School this spring, as you can see I had responsibilities and was surrounded with reasons to make it work, probably much different situation. Make no mistake I was a glutton to the end and still could be. I really wanted to have my youngest daughter have a good environment. I have known for some time that now is when my challenge will really begin, my children are grown and mostly on their own.
bf
—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:42 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Thanks Brad. I too know that feeling of being on meth and feeling (almost) normal and actually I was thinking back last night on my life on methadone and remembered that when I got on my first program I needed to have a special letter from the state approving the treatment because I was only 16 so I’ve been struggling with this for as long as I can remember. That first period on meth was joke and I I just ended up shooting more dope and coke but the second time around maybe 4 years later for me was very different I was tired and I really wanted to stop and I do admit it did the trick for a while. I went back to school and got my shit together but as I look back on it now it was a lie and that (almost normal) feeling eventually brought me right back out because as we both know being on a meth program eventually makes you feel just about the furthest thing from normal especially if you’ve been able to put your life together in o ther areas. Well that was my experience anyway. Good luck and thank you again and be in touch any time.

Brad Fisher <brad.fisher@guaranty.com> wrote:
Congratulations “M”, I have followed your journey, waited for your “return” and am happy for you. It was 9 years ago next week, the last time I came out of a Rehab. and was drug free. All of your descriptions have reminded me of those feelings and thoughts, I never took it as serious as it is. The past 5 years MMT has stabilized my life and got me thinking I’m normal, we know better. You and Preston have given me new hope and probably, many others.
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: mcorcoran [mailto:mcorcoran27@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 9:08 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Day 29…

Well I think today makes 29 days since I had any dope or meth and it feels great. Its actually my birthday today, which I’ve always hated because it was more a reminder of anything else that I have been addicted for another year. (first did dope on the day after my birthday 12 years ago) But its a new day. I feel like life is just beginning again and life is getting a little better everyday and the only thing that could fuck that up now is by putting any kind of opiate back into my system. I am allergic, simple as that. Break out in detoxes and handcuffs and all that shit. Ya gotta admit some of the little NA slogans are right on.
I slept almost 9 hours last night which was amazing. Still have a few chills here and there and my bowel is still very loose. But it keeps getting a little better everyday and I feel myself getting stronger and stronger and looking better and better everyday.
I can’t tell you all what a difference its made to keep close to the movement and the treatments. I feel as long as I stay connected in that aspect and stay close to the spirit (if you like) I couldn’t imagine ever going backwards.
Good vibes to all and keeping good thought’s for everyone in the pool right now. -M.

jon grocott <sjonnygee@msn.com> wrote:
Hi Jasen,
          the reason dialaudid is prescribed in this case is because of severe pain, most doctors don’t prescribe it for any other reason. It’s ironic though to use strong opiates to help get off methadone, I’ve thought about it myself before. ………. Jon.

>From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re:    Re: [ibogaine] I am the the god of cluck ! pt.2(Australia)

>Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 18:29:23 +1000

>

>

>   Dear list,

>   Wow,I can’t believe that docters are prescribing dialaudid,this is fantastic.I think it would be a good way to come off methadone.

>   By taking dil’ for say..,3 months,so by then the (most of) the done is out of your system,and comming off would be so much easier.(I am not telling you anything here that most of you wouldn’t already know.)

>   I wish docters over here were prepared to do that. I think the government and medical proffesion here is quite anal concerning addiction sickness.

>   Other than that,we have a pretty good system of government and good docters,it’s just a pity they’re not very open minded concerning addiction.Also a pity that big business,such as pharm’ companies are so mega money orientated.If only……

>

>   If I could transfer onto dialaudid for three months,..wow,..not to get off,but to help get off the done.Although feeling full never goes astray.

>   I would assume it would not be as stressing to the body to come off dialauded as it is the ‘done.

>   Of course no come down is easy,..ay.

>                                                         Jasen (Australia)

What type of MSN user are you? Take our quick quiz and find out! /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

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Yahoo! Mail – 50x more storage than other providers!

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and change after
Date: August 26, 2004 at 8:40:34 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The following URL will take you to the website of Dr. Bennett Cecil, expert in the field of liver
diseases:  www.hepatitisdoctor.com

There is a lot of general information regarding Hep C along with the other hepatitis conditions so
a visit there will benefit most everybody – you’ll learn something.  He has a clinic in Louisville, Ky
and I am told he has another one in Detroit, Michigan. maybe somewhere in Pennsylvania also?

We have firsthand experience with this doctor and believe him to be the BEST (Randy and Ann).
On a couple of visits we discussed Ibogaine with him.  He was very interested; in fact, he gave us
a copy of Randy’s latest bloodwork.

Best wishes
ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: UUSEAN@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2004 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and change after

Hi Preston,

My provider warned me that sitters are under a lot of pressure.  This was four days after they dosed you.:)   As for the HepC treatment, have you looked into public HepC clinics.  They are often together with HIV clinics.

Sean

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] and change after
Date: August 26, 2004 at 7:36:27 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sean, I didn’t mean to imply that anyone was being anything but safe. From reading Prestons account and from what Marc or Mark,Marq ? I kid I swear to God said it seems these people are just what we need. I was talking about more in the future. Hopefully more and more people will have access to Ibogaine and we need to look out for one another. Uncle Salty sure won’t. It sure has been cool to watch the process and the progress you and some others have made. I hope there is another 20 groups of people ready to go around and spread the joy.   Randy

From: Ambeatty@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] NYC or London post ibo support
Date: August 26, 2004 at 7:10:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We qualify for citizenship in the UK because of family connections.
It might me difficult to get citizenship otnerwise, I think there is a stiff financial and/or work requirement.
Andy

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