Ibogaine List Archives – 2004.12-2

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah AND JASEN AND KIRSTY
Date: December 16, 2004 at 11:59:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/16/04 11:36:52 PM, rwd3@cox.net writes:

<<  NO PITY PARTY, YOU GUYS WANTED TO BE REMINDED OF HOW IT IS?

THAT’S HOW IT IS AT MY AGE. IT HAS LEFT ME SPIRITUALLY BANKRUPT AND SOULESS.
THERE YOU GO. ONE NEAT PACKAGE AND A TICKING TIME BOMB.

WISH YOU GUYS ALL THE BEST, I’M BEAT AND IT D/N TAKE LONG AFTER 15 YRS. OF
BEING STRAIGHT AND USING AGAIN.  NO MORE NEGATIVE ENERGY FROM ME. REJOICE IN
YOUR GIFT. I’M KILLING MYSELF, END OF STORY.  IF YOU ARE STRAIGHT AND HAVE
DOUBTS, GO PICK UP AGAIN. BLESSINGS TO ALL, RON >>

So why do you think people take ibogaine?  For all of the reasons you give.
But, I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions.

Howard

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah AND JASEN AND KIRSTY
Date: December 16, 2004 at 10:35:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

jasen:
at 54 drugs have destroyed my life and may take a career i’ve spent most of my adult life working towards.  there are no drugs i can get high on anymore, tolerances built up over yrs.  they aren’t an option yet i’m dependent upon them to just function.  nothing romantic in “war stories”, just pain and misery to me and those that love me. they suck and i’m very close to bottoming out.  problem is, bottom at my age means no second chances, losing all i’ve worked for. if i had the bucks i’d go the ibo although i d/n think it’s indicated for benzos.  i’m sure given my history, i’d benefit. of course there’s the destruction of my underinsured house after the hurricane. everyday stuff for normal folks to deal with when not worrying about a habit
drugs have stripped me of all dignity, taken me places i never wanted to go. they have made me a liability when i was once an asset to my community.  i have no one to fall back on for help, the wolf is at the door  NO PITY PARTY, YOU GUYS WANTED TO BE REMINDED OF HOW IT IS?
THAT’S HOW IT IS AT MY AGE. IT HAS LEFT ME SPIRITUALLY BANKRUPT AND SOULESS.  THERE YOU GO. ONE NEAT PACKAGE AND A TICKING TIME BOMB.
WISH YOU GUYS ALL THE BEST, I’M BEAT AND IT D/N TAKE LONG AFTER 15 YRS. OF BEING STRAIGHT AND USING AGAIN.  NO MORE NEGATIVE ENERGY FROM ME. REJOICE IN YOUR GIFT. I’M KILLING MYSELF, END OF STORY.  IF YOU ARE STRAIGHT AND HAVE DOUBTS, GO PICK UP AGAIN. BLESSINGS TO ALL, RON
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hey Ron,
I would have to agree with others on the list.
Stay and tell.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.jim
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:52:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m down monday.  he must be a remarkable man. i will take the leap of faith. so going , afraid he c/n help or may change mind, but going just the same. thanks for the advice, it is taken in which the spirit it was given. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron,

Ron, we all like you, we all have our problems, we understand.  Schmoolyboy was nice enough to lead you to a doc who said he would help – GO.  It’s a no brainer.  The doc said he would help you.  You don’t have to walk into his office cold and wondering if he is one of those asshole docs who do not like addicts.  You don’t have to worry about him judging you, taking your money and saying sorry can’t help you.  I mean no disrespect but it really doesn’t get any better than a doc knowing in advance that you need “that” kind of help and offering to help you.  Santa can’t help you, the doc can.  Now, you got the name, address and phone number of a doc that said he would help you.  Run to the phone and set up an appointment -today.  Us on the forum can listen but can only help so much, you got to at least make an appointment.  Do you know how many people would jump at a chance like this?  Take some action – NOW!!!  Please do not take this as disrespect, just think about it.  What more do you want?  What more can anyone do?  It’s your turn, Ron – MOVE.  Before it’s too late.
Good luck to you Ron,  see the doc before Christmas and before he changes his mind.
It’s up to you now,
– JIM

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:47:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the well wishes and back to you my unseen friend.  wishing you your peaceful path, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hey Ron,
I would have to agree with others on the list.
Stay and tell.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:43:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you’re right, i have to do it or die. thank you for well wishes. i hope you achieve  your worthy goals. peace and a path to it, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Keep us posted Ron, we’re all rooting for you!  I hope you enjoy Christmas and the New Year, good luck with everything.  You know you can do it-you have to!

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:14:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,
Your comment ,’it sure sounds like you are Ibogainized’
cracked me up,thanks for the laugh.

Yes Iboga/Ibogaine will bring more peace and health to the world.
It is bringing more peace and health to the world.

It is a baptising in action.

I also had a compulsive obsessive disorder that I did not realise.
For example,I would have to be constantly entertained if not then nicely stoned and away.
I would get videos almost every night,nodding in front of the movie,sometimes only getting to see half of it,
or nod off through the whole thing.If I got a litre of ice-cream I would have to eat the lot.

I would see every movie at the cinemas,even down to the boring ones on the chance they were entertaining.
Anything I liked I had to have lots and lots of it, hi Howard. Gee, now I’m making myself laugh.

Ohhh,this music is wonderful,I keep getting these wonderful goosebumps with some of the tunes.
I am listening to music as I write. I am always listening to music.

It is like the Iboga ripped out most of the pain and blockages,the type of pain we all experience in life.
I now have no emotional reason to use heroin,…maybe physical a little,but that I can handle especially when the Iboga/Ibogaine
takes away at least 85% of the physical as well.

You see I know this will pass,the physical,so I can handle it.I don’t like it but I can handle it.
I like where I am at though,no,…LOVE where I am at.The word love seems to vibrate to the same frequency as the Iboga.

Vibrations ,it’s all vibrations.Life is a vibration between good and bad, hot and cold the ying and the yang,
if the opposite did not exist then life could not.What would the good vibrate off. It needs to bounce back.
Don’t know where that came from.My hands are talking.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah

In a message dated 12/16/04 6:28:02 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I laid on the grass this morning to absorb some sun,normally I would get
bitten by an ant,or bugged by bees and a fly or two,

not this time it was like the grass was leaning towards me wanting to get
close,not one ant bite,it was like they were happy I was there.

The bees would come over gently like they were saying h

>>

Hi Jasen,

It sure sounds like you are ibogainized.  Ibogaine could bring peace and
health to the world or at least a lot more of it.  Anyway carrying on with good
energy for the holidays and new year.  Be well.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 7:43:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/16/04 6:28:02 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I laid on the grass this morning to absorb some sun,normally I would get
bitten by an ant,or bugged by bees and a fly or two,

not this time it was like the grass was leaning towards me wanting to get
close,not one ant bite,it was like they were happy I was there.

The bees would come over gently like they were saying h

Hi Jasen,

It sure sounds like you are ibogainized.  Ibogaine could bring peace and
health to the world or at least a lot more of it.  Anyway carrying on with good
energy for the holidays and new year.  Be well.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]re:cigs Julie
Date: December 16, 2004 at 7:10:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

It’s great to hear from you!  You sound so positive,
so refreshed, so…REBORN.

Before my 2nd Ibo treatment, I was socially smoking
tobacco.  I have never been addicted, per se, but WOW-
cigarettes do work well with alcohol, which in turn
works well with opiates, which work well with…you
know the score.

Post-Ibo I find cigarettes truly repelling.  The smell
alone causes me to cringe, I can only imagine what the
taste would do….Here in Toronto, it is now illegal
to smoke in bars and restaurants, which sucks for the
smokers but ROCKS for the rest of us!

My boyfriend is just over 2 months out, but he still
gets cravings quite frequently- usually triggered by a
nice tasty meal, or a nice, tasty[fill in blank].
He’s starting to unlearn the chemical conditioning
patterns his body/mind have accumulated over 10 years
of regular nicotine consumption.  I feel for him.  In
many ways, I would say nicotine is somewhat harder to
kick than dope- I mean, nicotine is so damn in your
face AND it’s legal.  Nicotine is a very pervasive
substance.  Toronto is going to pass a bylaw that
prohibits the prominent display of cigs in any kind of
commercial  setting- in other words, they must be kept
under the counter at all times, and NOT in anyone’s
visual range.

It’s great to chat with you again.  Keep the positive
vibes coming,

Julie
ms_iboga@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Trip over?
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:08:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My friend is just about to return to Cambridge police station for Bail. He
was ‘caught’ with a few fresh, unprepared mushrooms he had picked-they were
taken off him and he had to spend the night in the cells.  He still doesn’t
know what or if they’re considering charging him with!

Its just madness!
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:00 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Trip over?

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Trip over?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,1373088,00.html

Trip over?

Magic mushrooms have never been more popular. More than 400 apparently
legal
‘shroom’ shops have sprung up in the past two years, and growing kits have
become a must-have Christmas present. So why has the government suddenly
turned tough on sellers? Stephen Moss investigates

Tuesday December 14, 2004
The Guardian

Six months ago, when the NME described 2004 as “the third summer of love”,
it put the benign mood down to one thing – the return of magic mushrooms.
The drug idolised by cult author and psychologist Timothy Leary in the
1960s – he said that his first experience of mushrooms in Mexico in 1960
taught him more than all his years of study – was back. According to the
NME, which produced a “top tips for top trips” guide, mushrooms were a
safe
alternative to ecstasy, and what’s more – they were legal. It was time to
“turn on, tune in, drop out” all over again.
Except that nobody told the Home Office and the police, which have now
declared war on magic mushrooms. In Gloucester, two local men have been
charged with supplying a class A drug by selling them. It promises to be
the
start of a long and complicated legal battle to determine the status of
Britain’s latest drug of choice. Other cases are pending in Birmingham and
Canterbury – cases which the Home Office hopes will establish once and for
all whether magic mushrooms are innocent, hippy-dippy playthings, or a
menace to be stamped on.
The nation’s mushroom sellers are confused. Two years ago, a more
easy-going
Home Office sent out a letter advising them that “the growing of psilocybe
mushrooms” and their “gathering and possession” did not contravene the
Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. It was not illegal, the letter went on, to sell
or
give away a growing kit, or to sell or give away a freshly picked
mushroom,
“provided that it has not been prepared in any way”. Recipients of the
letter took it as a green light to sell fresh mushrooms, and there are now
an estimated 400 “shroom” shops in the UK.
This distinction – between a fresh mushroom and one that has been
“prepared” – is crucial. It is not an offence to possess or consume a
mushroom, because it occurs naturally, but a psilocybe mushroom contains
the
hallucinogen psilocin and its byproduct psilocybin, both of which are
deemed
to be class A drugs under the 1971 Act. Any “preparation” or any attempt
to
turn the mushroom into a “product” (the Gloucester case and others like it
may hinge on the definition of those words) could constitute the supply of
a
class A drug. Maximum sentence: life imprisonment.
The Home Office has now, in effect, disowned the original softly-softly
guidance note. “The Home Office judges that a mushroom that has been
cultivated, transported to the marketplace, packaged, weighed and labelled
constitutes a product,” reads the latest guidelines. Applied literally,
this
would appear to rule out all trade in magic mushrooms, which at present
are
being cultivated, transported, weighed and sold openly in shops and on
market stalls all over the country. Even grow-kits, which allow you to
grow
your own mushrooms, appear to be ruled out under the Home Office advice –
a
grow-kit, by definition, means cultivation. The tougher guidelines have
led
to a rash of arrests across the country, and to cases that will determine
whether the nascent industry has a future
One retailer caught in the police crackdown was Andy Burgess, who runs the
Headz “alternative gift shop” in Folkestone. Burgess, a former builder, is
61 and admits to being “the oldest swinger in town”. His shop, with its
blue
and purple frontage, is an exotic exception to the drabness of the rest of
the town. It smells of incense, has a large reclining Buddha in the window
and is plastered with leaflets for psychic fayres, spiritual healing and
medieval fencing. Strangely, there is also an advertisement for a model
railway exhibition.
In late September, Burgess had a visit from the local police – and they
hadn’t come for the Indian head massage. “When I arrived here in the
morning, there were two police vans outside my door,” he recalls. “I said
to
a policeman, ‘Do you want to speak to me?’ He said, ‘I’m afraid so.’ There
were at least eight policemen – they were like a Swat team.
“I said, ‘What do you want?’ He said, ‘I want your mushrooms. Where are
they?’ They ended up taking my fridge, all my invoices, all my
paraphernalia
regarding mushroom selling.”
Burgess was arrested on suspicion of supplying a class A drug and spent
the
rest of the day in the cells. He was interviewed, then bailed, but a few
days later he was told that the case had been dropped. No explanation or
apology was offered. “I can’t understand it,” he says. “I can’t understand
why they’re hassling people.” He also sells a range of replica firearms in
his shop, but these do not seem to have excited the interest of the
police.
Burgess has been selling magic mushrooms for seven or eight months to a
wide
range of aficionados: “I get teachers, even policemen coming in to buy
them,” he says. “Most people don’t buy them in large quantities; they buy
a
small amount and share them with their friends to have a giggle. I sell
them
in 30g bags, which is the maximum dose for any one person, but if you do
half of it you just get a giggle. Things may look a bit surreal, but
that’s
as far as it goes. It’s quite harmless.”
Not everyone agrees. “Magic mushrooms are potentially dangerous,” insists
Professor John Henry, an expert in toxicology at Imperial College and St
Mary’s Hospital, London. “They clearly cause hallucinations. The
hallucinations are usually short term, but there is a danger of
flashbacks.”
Professor Henry says mushrooms have contributed to several deaths, with
people suffering hallucinations being killed in accidents. “I advise
people
never to take magic mushrooms as a form of escape. I tell them your
hang-ups
will always chase you. Experienced users might just feel a bit trippy, but
naive users may feel sick, spacy, quite ill. It is also frightening if
they
are fed to you without you knowing. That can be very scary.”
Mushroom sellers, unsurprisingly, refuse to accept that mushrooms can do
long-term damage. Psyche Deli, one of the biggest companies in the
industry,
was started by three people who enjoyed taking mushrooms and decided to
turn
their hobby into a business. They quote a Dutch scientific report that
claims mushrooms are safe. “We never set out to do anything illegal,” says
co-founder Paul Galbraith. “We asked all the requisite authorities what we
were able to do, and it looks like many other traders did the same. Over
the
past two years, although nothing has actually changed in the law, the Home
Office’s interpretation appears to have changed.” Chris Territt, also from
Psyche Deli, argues that it may be the increased size and organisation of
the business – the Home Office is especially exercised by the growing
volume
of imports, mainly from Holland – that has triggered the clampdown.
“The law on magic mushrooms is madness,” says Paul Flynn, Labour MP for
Newport West. “It seems to have been written by somebody who was on a
hallucinogenic drug.” In May, Flynn wrote to Home Office minister Caroline
Flint asking for clarification. Her reply – that the very act of selling
them constitutes “preparation” – showed how far the Home Office had moved
away from its original view that “preparation” meant a change in the
physical nature of the mushroom, turning it into a tea, a paste or a
powder,
for example, to make the effect of the psilocin more concentrated.
The change of heart does not, however, appear to have penetrated the
Metropolitan police, which has so far taken no action in London, where
magic
mushrooms are sold openly in street markets. When I visited a stall in
Portobello Road, business was fairly brisk, with family groups clustered
round the stall choosing from among the mushroom varieties – Mexican,
Colombian, Hawaiian, Thai. Christmas is a busy time, apparently, with
grow-kits rivalling iPods as the must-have present last year.
Flynn is scathing about the government’s handling of the issue. “It’s
crazy:
if you pick them, that’s legal; if you keep them overnight, that’s illegal
because they dry out. The effect of magic mushrooms is minor compared with
other drugs. There is a market for them and it would be better to allow it
to operate. There are plenty of medicinal drugs that cause far more damage
than magic mushrooms. But there are no signs of any intelligence in drug
policy from the government. When they say the word ‘drugs’, you can be
sure
that the word ‘tough’ won’t be far behind.”
Even Professor Henry, while backing a ban on their cultivation, believes
the
law has become hopelessly confused. “They’re not a food – VAT has to be
paid
on them – so what are they? They’re in some other category, but nobody
seems
to know what.”
The VAT issue is vexing to mushroom retailers. In February, one wrote to
Customs and Excise to ask whether he should be charging VAT. It replied
that
he should and was then embarrassed when the retailer made the letter
public.
It appeared that it was levying a tax on a “product” which the Home Office
wanted to ban. Joined-up government it wasn’t.
“We did state that fresh mushrooms were subject to VAT,” says Customs and
Excise spokesman Paul Matthews, “but we are also aware of the Home Office
view that their packaging for sale is illegal. We are really waiting for
case law on this.” Mushroom retailers argue that if VAT is being levied,
the
product per se cannot be illegal; it seems this is not the case. “Just
because something is illegal doesn’t mean that it can’t be taxed,” says
Matthews.
Proponents of magic mushrooms are frustrated at what they see as the Home
Office’s reluctance to consider changing the law, and are critical of a
policy that appears to be based on nudging the police and the courts to
establish precedent. “If someone was going to make policy on this, then
there would at least be a debate,” says Territt, “but currently there is
no
debate. The crown prosecution service is not a relevant authority to be
making health and safety and drugs policy.”

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: Jasen,ZOE&TOM
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:05:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,
How is Zoe and Tom.
Are they ok,has Zoe taken her dose yet.
send them my love.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: sarah
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: Jasen,

If you have any questions just email me … Kind Regards
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Jasen,

Greetings from Jason and me, all is well around here, nothing unexpected until now.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]re:cigs Julie
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:01:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
I am having a hard time with the tobacco
as well. I have not smoked tobacco now for 25 days or so.
I think it is the boredom for me ,Whilst waiting to feel better.

Every now and again I look for my tobacco out of habit,
then realise I don’t smoke.

For me it is not craving but more the habit of killing time and doing something with my hands and mouth.

I hope your boyfreind is doing well.

So girl,….How have you been?,you have been quiter than usual.
Love Jasen.

Preston,
My boyfriend just quit smoking with Zyban, and a lot
of willpower…It’s been 5 weeks, and he’s still
having cravings.  God, do they ever go away???
I wish you the best of luck in your journey.
luv Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 5:28:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Deborah,
I used to have a friend at school called Deborah,she was beautiful,I miss her.
Another christmas baby,you are a capricorn like me.

In chinese astrology I am the Serpent.Born 25 12 65.

Great choice to see Sara,somehow Sara just seems to tune into your needs,she is lovley.
I am sure their are other providers that are also lovley, kind, giving and just want to help.

The Euro is quite powerful as you know. For 100 Australian you get 60 euro(approx).
Magic mushrooms are about 14 euro,a rolled joint in a coffe shop is 3 to 5 euro.
Thats about all I bought. Of course,..all strictly medicinal.

I laid on the grass this morning to absorb some sun,normally I would get bitten by an ant,or bugged by bees and a fly or two,
not this time it was like the grass was leaning towards me wanting to get close,not one ant bite,it was like they were happy I was there.
The bees would come over gently like they were saying h

I live in Brisbane Queensland.I grew up in Sydney came to Brisbane 17 years ago to get away from the gear and of course
found it up here.

I am to high on being opiate free to come down,you cannot bring me down unless I choose to be down,life is to bright at the moment.
Please write whatever you want,it’s all good.

I recieve healing from everyone on the list through their postings,regardlewss of the content,it is life we are living.
I like the all of it.
love Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Deborah Vincent
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.

Dear Jasen,
It’s So great to hear your strong true voice.. So great for you to be free!! I’m So happy for you and positively green with envy! Oh!!! To have a choice! To be able to travel on the spur of the moment! Sheer bliss surely! The liquid handcuffs are really dragging me down, destroying my teeth , stomach and sleep patterns!! I’m so over the whole thing! The great conspiracy! But hopefully by march I’ll be in your place – I’m hoping to be able to visit Sara in Feb. Can you tell me what the exchange rate is- Aust$ to Euro?
I’m living in Melbourne.. Dear downtown St.Kilda.  Where in Aust. are you Jasen?  When you’re totally better I’d love to have a chat about the whole eboga trip! I’m pretty much in the same boat that you’d been rowing…
Smoking fags at 9. Tripping & smoking grass at 12 when my folks split. Addicted to heroin on and off since 15 when I bailed out of school and home. Then as an adult, cocaine for 5 years instead of hammer… Totally Clean for 2 x 3 yr periods …I used to have awesome self restraint.. I could just quit! I resisted going on the methadone programme forever – then broke down and gave in in 2001 when my body Really decided it didn’t want to hang out any more… I’d get admitted to hospital every time I try these days. 47 on Christmas day and so depressed.
But I don’t want to bring you down.. I wanted to say Bravo Jasen!! Be Strong and Well and Victorious!!! and Merry Christmas!!! Happy New Year – The first day of the first year of your new adult life! Make every minute count!
Love Deborah

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] US CA: Outbreak!
Date: December 16, 2004 at 4:03:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: “Tim Meehan” <fc697@ncf.ca>
To: <cmap@mapinc.org>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <editor@mapinc.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] US CA: Outbreak!

Source: East Bay Express (CA)
Contact: letters@eastbayexpress.com
Website: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/
Feedback: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/feedback/
Address: 1335 Stanford Ave., Emeryville, CA 94608
Fax: (510) 601-0217
Copyright: 2004 New Times
Pubdate: Dec 15, 2004
Author: K.L. Capozza

Webpage: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2004-12-15/cityside.html

Outbreak!

A rare heroin-related disease strikes the Bay Area

On November 29, the first of several disoriented, apparently drowsy people
wandered into Bay Area county hospitals with slurred speech, drooping eyelids,
and difficulty swallowing. By December 2, at least three patients were paralyzed
above the waist and required mechanical ventilation.

The mysterious, rapidly progressing illness turned out to be wound botulism — a
rare disease caused by a toxin in C. botulinum bacteria. Alameda and San
Francisco county public health officials immediately notified the California
Department of Health Services of the outbreak, which later alerted the federal
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Like most recent victims of wound botulism, these six patients have one
characteristic in common: They are all black-tar heroin users who contracted the
toxin-releasing bacteria from a dirty drug batch.

Botulism cases always raise alarm because C. botulinum is not only a
bioterrorism agent but a particularly nasty bug. Exposed victims experience
rapid descending paralysis, or gradual loss of muscle control beginning with the
smaller muscles in the head and moving downward.

By the time three of the six patients — one of whom is an Alameda County
resident — made it to San Francisco General Hospital, they were in critical
condition. In the coming weeks — or even months — they will need
around-the-clock intensive care while an antitoxin slowly unbinds neurotoxin
from their muscles. All told, the outbreak could cost taxpayers hundreds of
thousands of dollars.

Wound botulism is a primarily Californian disease. The state has 75 percent of
the cases in the United States, which in turn has 90 percent of the cases
reported across the globe. The illness was virtually unheard of prior to 1988,
but since then California has seen a twenty-fold increase in infections. Experts
at the California Department of Health Services believe the recent surge in
cases can be explained by two related developments in the heroin-using
community: the increase in popularity of black-tar heroin from Mexico, and the
practice of “skin popping,” or injecting heroin into soft tissue rather than
veins. Repeated injections cause abscesses to form, creating a favorable climate
for neurotoxin-producing bacteria like C. botulinum.

Last month’s deluge of botulism infections likely represents only a fraction of
the cases that the state’s hospitals can expect to see in 2005. On average, 22
cases emerge each year and cost an estimated $4.5 million in health-care
expenses. Public health officials would like to find a way to stem the trend,
but because heroin users are hard to reach and because their habit is illegal,
prevention efforts have been largely ineffectual.

“Not using isn’t always a reasonable option to these individuals, and once they
have wound botulism, you can’t do much about it,” says Dr. Erica Pan, head of
San Francisco’s Bioterrorism and Infectious Disease Emergencies Unit. “It’s
frustrating from a public health perspective.”

Yet there is evidence that one approach could drastically cut wound botulism
cases and a host of other negative effects associated with heroin use, including
crime, homelessness, and HIV and hepatitis C infection: Controlling addicts’
heroin supply. Under this strategy, public agencies would buy “clean” heroin and
offer it to addicts in regulated, prescribed doses so they don’t have to rely on
an unsafe street product.

While many people are uneasy about the prospect of local government getting into
the business of dispensing heroin, there is growing support for the idea —
especially abroad. The Netherlands and Switzerland have already tested
prescription-heroin treatment programs and seen impressive results. A five-year
study of Switzerland’s program — which has existed since 1992 — found crime
had dropped by 60 percent and unemployment by 50 percent. Significant public
funds were saved thanks to a reduction in legal costs, imprisonment, and disease
treatment after the program commenced.

This remarkable success inspired Canada to fund its own prescription-heroin
pilot study, which will begin early next year. But here in the United States,
support for the idea has been tepid at best. Critics of the approach —
including drug czar John Walters — say it encourages drug dependence and robs
addicts of the opportunity to kick their habit.

Ideology aside, the Swiss and Dutch experiments do show that it’s simply more
cost-effective to regulate heroin use than to punish it. “The cost of providing
heroin treatment is truly pennies on the dollar compared to the alternative,”
says Daniel Abrahamson, the Oakland-based director of legal affairs for the Drug
Policy Alliance. More important, he argues, prescription-heroin programs help
intractable addicts return to normal, productive lives and, in some cases, to
eventually give up the drug altogether.

“When you prescribe pure, known levels of heroin to individuals, you enable them
to not spend every waking moment of their life figuring out how to get their
next hit — it frees up time to figure out how to get well,” he says.

That currently isn’t an option for the six patients who contracted wound
botulism last month. As they recover in the coming weeks, they will be
discharged and, as statistics overwhelmingly suggest, will likely return to
their old habits. They may even contract wound botulism a second or third time,
as some addicts have in the past.

“The question is really: ‘This problem exists, so what do you do?'” Abrahamson
argues. “One option is to look at the very strong medical and scientific
research that heroin maintenance reduces disease, crime, and the suffering of
addictive people.”

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Trip over?
Date: December 16, 2004 at 4:00:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Trip over?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,1373088,00.html

Trip over?

Magic mushrooms have never been more popular. More than 400 apparently legal ‘shroom’ shops have sprung up in the past two years, and growing kits have become a must-have Christmas present. So why has the government suddenly turned tough on sellers? Stephen Moss investigates

Tuesday December 14, 2004
The Guardian

Six months ago, when the NME described 2004 as “the third summer of love”, it put the benign mood down to one thing – the return of magic mushrooms. The drug idolised by cult author and psychologist Timothy Leary in the 1960s – he said that his first experience of mushrooms in Mexico in 1960 taught him more than all his years of study – was back. According to the NME, which produced a “top tips for top trips” guide, mushrooms were a safe alternative to ecstasy, and what’s more – they were legal. It was time to “turn on, tune in, drop out” all over again.
Except that nobody told the Home Office and the police, which have now declared war on magic mushrooms. In Gloucester, two local men have been charged with supplying a class A drug by selling them. It promises to be the start of a long and complicated legal battle to determine the status of Britain’s latest drug of choice. Other cases are pending in Birmingham and Canterbury – cases which the Home Office hopes will establish once and for all whether magic mushrooms are innocent, hippy-dippy playthings, or a menace to be stamped on.
The nation’s mushroom sellers are confused. Two years ago, a more easy-going Home Office sent out a letter advising them that “the growing of psilocybe mushrooms” and their “gathering and possession” did not contravene the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. It was not illegal, the letter went on, to sell or give away a growing kit, or to sell or give away a freshly picked mushroom, “provided that it has not been prepared in any way”. Recipients of the letter took it as a green light to sell fresh mushrooms, and there are now an estimated 400 “shroom” shops in the UK.
This distinction – between a fresh mushroom and one that has been “prepared” – is crucial. It is not an offence to possess or consume a mushroom, because it occurs naturally, but a psilocybe mushroom contains the hallucinogen psilocin and its byproduct psilocybin, both of which are deemed to be class A drugs under the 1971 Act. Any “preparation” or any attempt to turn the mushroom into a “product” (the Gloucester case and others like it may hinge on the definition of those words) could constitute the supply of a class A drug. Maximum sentence: life imprisonment.
The Home Office has now, in effect, disowned the original softly-softly guidance note. “The Home Office judges that a mushroom that has been cultivated, transported to the marketplace, packaged, weighed and labelled constitutes a product,” reads the latest guidelines. Applied literally, this would appear to rule out all trade in magic mushrooms, which at present are being cultivated, transported, weighed and sold openly in shops and on market stalls all over the country. Even grow-kits, which allow you to grow your own mushrooms, appear to be ruled out under the Home Office advice – a grow-kit, by definition, means cultivation. The tougher guidelines have led to a rash of arrests across the country, and to cases that will determine whether the nascent industry has a future
One retailer caught in the police crackdown was Andy Burgess, who runs the Headz “alternative gift shop” in Folkestone. Burgess, a former builder, is 61 and admits to being “the oldest swinger in town”. His shop, with its blue and purple frontage, is an exotic exception to the drabness of the rest of the town. It smells of incense, has a large reclining Buddha in the window and is plastered with leaflets for psychic fayres, spiritual healing and medieval fencing. Strangely, there is also an advertisement for a model railway exhibition.
In late September, Burgess had a visit from the local police – and they hadn’t come for the Indian head massage. “When I arrived here in the morning, there were two police vans outside my door,” he recalls. “I said to a policeman, ‘Do you want to speak to me?’ He said, ‘I’m afraid so.’ There were at least eight policemen – they were like a Swat team.
“I said, ‘What do you want?’ He said, ‘I want your mushrooms. Where are they?’ They ended up taking my fridge, all my invoices, all my paraphernalia regarding mushroom selling.”
Burgess was arrested on suspicion of supplying a class A drug and spent the rest of the day in the cells. He was interviewed, then bailed, but a few days later he was told that the case had been dropped. No explanation or apology was offered. “I can’t understand it,” he says. “I can’t understand why they’re hassling people.” He also sells a range of replica firearms in his shop, but these do not seem to have excited the interest of the police.
Burgess has been selling magic mushrooms for seven or eight months to a wide range of aficionados: “I get teachers, even policemen coming in to buy them,” he says. “Most people don’t buy them in large quantities; they buy a small amount and share them with their friends to have a giggle. I sell them in 30g bags, which is the maximum dose for any one person, but if you do half of it you just get a giggle. Things may look a bit surreal, but that’s as far as it goes. It’s quite harmless.”
Not everyone agrees. “Magic mushrooms are potentially dangerous,” insists Professor John Henry, an expert in toxicology at Imperial College and St Mary’s Hospital, London. “They clearly cause hallucinations. The hallucinations are usually short term, but there is a danger of flashbacks.” Professor Henry says mushrooms have contributed to several deaths, with people suffering hallucinations being killed in accidents. “I advise people never to take magic mushrooms as a form of escape. I tell them your hang-ups will always chase you. Experienced users might just feel a bit trippy, but naive users may feel sick, spacy, quite ill. It is also frightening if they are fed to you without you knowing. That can be very scary.”
Mushroom sellers, unsurprisingly, refuse to accept that mushrooms can do long-term damage. Psyche Deli, one of the biggest companies in the industry, was started by three people who enjoyed taking mushrooms and decided to turn their hobby into a business. They quote a Dutch scientific report that claims mushrooms are safe. “We never set out to do anything illegal,” says co-founder Paul Galbraith. “We asked all the requisite authorities what we were able to do, and it looks like many other traders did the same. Over the past two years, although nothing has actually changed in the law, the Home Office’s interpretation appears to have changed.” Chris Territt, also from Psyche Deli, argues that it may be the increased size and organisation of the business – the Home Office is especially exercised by the growing volume of imports, mainly from Holland – that has triggered the clampdown.
“The law on magic mushrooms is madness,” says Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West. “It seems to have been written by somebody who was on a hallucinogenic drug.” In May, Flynn wrote to Home Office minister Caroline Flint asking for clarification. Her reply – that the very act of selling them constitutes “preparation” – showed how far the Home Office had moved away from its original view that “preparation” meant a change in the physical nature of the mushroom, turning it into a tea, a paste or a powder, for example, to make the effect of the psilocin more concentrated.
The change of heart does not, however, appear to have penetrated the Metropolitan police, which has so far taken no action in London, where magic mushrooms are sold openly in street markets. When I visited a stall in Portobello Road, business was fairly brisk, with family groups clustered round the stall choosing from among the mushroom varieties – Mexican, Colombian, Hawaiian, Thai. Christmas is a busy time, apparently, with grow-kits rivalling iPods as the must-have present last year.
Flynn is scathing about the government’s handling of the issue. “It’s crazy: if you pick them, that’s legal; if you keep them overnight, that’s illegal because they dry out. The effect of magic mushrooms is minor compared with other drugs. There is a market for them and it would be better to allow it to operate. There are plenty of medicinal drugs that cause far more damage than magic mushrooms. But there are no signs of any intelligence in drug policy from the government. When they say the word ‘drugs’, you can be sure that the word ‘tough’ won’t be far behind.”
Even Professor Henry, while backing a ban on their cultivation, believes the law has become hopelessly confused. “They’re not a food – VAT has to be paid on them – so what are they? They’re in some other category, but nobody seems to know what.”
The VAT issue is vexing to mushroom retailers. In February, one wrote to Customs and Excise to ask whether he should be charging VAT. It replied that he should and was then embarrassed when the retailer made the letter public. It appeared that it was levying a tax on a “product” which the Home Office wanted to ban. Joined-up government it wasn’t.
“We did state that fresh mushrooms were subject to VAT,” says Customs and Excise spokesman Paul Matthews, “but we are also aware of the Home Office view that their packaging for sale is illegal. We are really waiting for case law on this.” Mushroom retailers argue that if VAT is being levied, the product per se cannot be illegal; it seems this is not the case. “Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean that it can’t be taxed,” says Matthews.
Proponents of magic mushrooms are frustrated at what they see as the Home Office’s reluctance to consider changing the law, and are critical of a policy that appears to be based on nudging the police and the courts to establish precedent. “If someone was going to make policy on this, then there would at least be a debate,” says Territt, “but currently there is no debate. The crown prosecution service is not a relevant authority to be making health and safety and drugs policy.”

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen TV
Date: December 16, 2004 at 3:13:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Francis,
I feel I am still opened up and whatever I let in will be hard to let go off later.
I was given the feeling that I must be very careful what I do over these months,
that everything is magnified now.

I did not turn the tv on for 3 days.Normally I would sit infront of the tv at 6,
watch the simpsons,then keep watching untill 11 or 12,most of the time I would nod off
watching tv,smoking pot to bring on the Methadone.

I am not,not wathcing tv because I think it is bad,I simply do not have the desire.
Now I feel the radiation from the tv,it gives me an uneasy feeling around the temples.
I watched a comedy last night,that was good,I laughed and laughed,my laugh still sounds exhausting.

I feel I let in to much crap from the tv which infllunces me in many different ways.

By the way your english is as good as everyone else as far as email goes.

The last time I listened to Pink Floyd was over 20 years ago. Now I cannot stop listening to
Division Bell by pinkfloyd. Listen to the words,it is uncanny,as if they had the same problem
and tried Eboga/Ibogaine then wrote about it.

From morning to night I stayed out of sight ,I didn’t recognise what I had become,no more than a lie  I barley survived
in a word over run,my skin is cold to the human touch,I murmered about all silenced and out I dont even hear when I think aloud,extinguished by light I turn on the night.

I am creeping back to life my nervous system all array I am wearing the inside out
Look at him now .his paler now, ….but he is comming around,he is starting to choke,..so long since he spoke,can see through the clouds that covered me.
just give it time.  I will stop here,.it goes on.

It gives me goose bumps,the nice kind.Ahhhh,the life is charging in side of me,it is loud.

When I say I miss female company,I mean the flirting the holding the nurturing,laying beside each other,being intimate.
I have to be careful as I feel my heart is still very open,and I could fall in love to easily,mistaking the company and intimacy for love.
I will be patient.First thing first,become stronger,fitter,lighter.
with love Jasen.
Hi Jasen !
I am collecting  all your E-mail religiously, It’s amazing to see
how fast you are changing for the better.
It’s the first time I can follow a recovery with Ibogaine. I am so happy for
you !! English is not my language so I lack vocabulary to express how
astonished I am seing the miracle you  went throught. This an amazing grace
🙂

I have a question for you related to adversion to TV. I’ve read
several time in this list that Ibogaine change your perception or taste
regarding TV. I have a complete hatred of TV with maybee two exeption FSTV
and World link. Actualy I have been totaly TV free for nine month.
What change in your perception of TV, now. Your aversion is about
the content or the way they present it, moving the camera  seventy time in
one minute. ? Volume going up down , non stop ?Or both ?
Good bless
Francis

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 2:59:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron,

Ron, we all like you, we all have our problems, we understand.  Schmoolyboy was nice enough to lead you to a doc who said he would help – GO.  It’s a no brainer.  The doc said he would help you.  You don’t have to walk into his office cold and wondering if he is one of those asshole docs who do not like addicts.  You don’t have to worry about him judging you, taking your money and saying sorry can’t help you.  I mean no disrespect but it really doesn’t get any better than a doc knowing in advance that you need “that” kind of help and offering to help you.  Santa can’t help you, the doc can.  Now, you got the name, address and phone number of a doc that said he would help you.  Run to the phone and set up an appointment -today.  Us on the forum can listen but can only help so much, you got to at least make an appointment.  Do you know how many people would jump at a chance like this?  Take some action – NOW!!!  Please do not take this as disrespect, just think about it.  What more do you want?  What more can anyone do?  It’s your turn, Ron – MOVE.  Before it’s too late.
Good luck to you Ron,  see the doc before Christmas and before he changes his mind.
It’s up to you now,
– JIM

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Ibogaine] FWD – 燙OLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 16, 2004 at 2:31:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everybody,

Ya know, I would like to ask a senator or representative why is pot not legalized, just to hear their answer.  What do you think they would say?  If they are going to fine you or put you in jail for using it they should have a good answer.  America has the most people in jail per capita than any other country including China, Russia, Cuba, etc.  Half are for non violent drug offences.  Quick, think of a way America could save millions of dollars.

– JIM

Best to ya,

– JIM
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I want to ride on the peace train with Jeff. Who else is going? But wait ………………..who’s going to stay here and fight the idiocy of the drug war? Preston, you and Howard stay here and kick their ass, the rest of us will run to Canada. I sadly joke about this shit but it kills me. I just don’t get the logic. Drink all the booze you want and here take this methadone and be hooked for the rest of your life but don’t you smoke any herb cause it will kill you.*&^+_)(*&^%$#@#@! Fuck ’em and feed ’em beans. I will not back down from these assholes.                                 Randy

> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:54:58 -0500
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA

man it is mind boggling how narrow minded these cats are! But we know that from their ibogaine track record…
i am getting out a here asap!
Jeff
Who now can get out …

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Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 18-MC anti HIV
Date: December 16, 2004 at 2:02:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Planta Med. 2004 Sep;70(9):808-12.

Anti-HIV-1 activity of the Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine.

Silva EM, Cirne-Santos CC, Frugulhetti IC, Galvao-Castro B, Saraiva EM,
Kuehne ME, Bou-Habib DC.
Laboratorio Avancado de Saude Publica, Centro de Pesquisas Goncalo Moniz,
Salvador, BA, Brazil.

The Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine (18-MC) exhibits in vitro
leishmanicidal and in vivo anti-addiction properties. In this paper, we
describe that 18-MC inhibits HIV-1 infection in human peripheral blood mononuclear
cells (PBMCs) and monocyte-derived macrophages. We found that 18-MC inhibits
the replication of primary isolates of HIV-1 in a dose-dependent manner,
regardless of the preferential chemokine receptor usage of the isolates, at
non-cell-toxic concentrations. The antiretroviral activity of 18-MC resulted in EC (50)
values of 22.5 +/- 4.7 microM and 23 +/- 4.5 microM for R5 and X4 isolates,
respectively, in PBMCs, and a therapeutic index (TI) of 14.5. Similar findings
were observed for inhibition of HIV-1 replication in macrophages: EC (50)
equal to 12.8 +/- 5 microM and 9.5 +/- 3 microM for an R5 virus after 14 and 21
days of infection, respectively, with TI equal to 25.6 and 34.5. 18-MC
moderately inhibits the HIV-1 enzyme reverse transcriptase (IC (50) = 69.4 microM),
which at least partially explains its antiretroviral activity.

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 1:19:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Keep us posted Ron, we’re all rooting for you!  I hope you enjoy Christmas and the New Year, good luck with everything.  You know you can do it-you have to!

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 11:58:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/16/04 11:31:34 AM, AbbotAngel@aol.com writes:

<<
In a message dated 16/12/2004 14:15:18 GMT Standard Time,  think@francomm.com
writes:

<http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html>

Howard

cant get through to this address is it right
Love donna

Try this without ther < >
http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html

Howard

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 11:20:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 16/12/2004 14:15:18 GMT Standard Time, think@francomm.com writes:
<http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html>

Howard

cant get through to this address is it right

Love donna

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen TV
Date: December 16, 2004 at 10:43:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen !
I am collecting  all your E-mail religiously, It’s amazing to see
how fast you are changing for the better.
It’s the first time I can follow a recovery with Ibogaine. I am so happy for
you !! English is not my language so I lack vocabulary to express how
astonished I am seing the miracle you  went throught. This an amazing grace
🙂

I have a question for you related to adversion to TV. I’ve read
several time in this list that Ibogaine change your perception or taste
regarding TV. I have a complete hatred of TV with maybee two exeption FSTV
and World link. Actualy I have been totaly TV free for nine month.
What change in your perception of TV, now. Your aversion is about
the content or the way they present it, moving the camera  seventy time in
one minute. ? Volume going up down , non stop ?Or both ?
Good bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen

Hi Jasen,
It’s good to know you’re up and about.  Just to let you know, yes,
when
I read your emails if I’m not cracking up there is an ear to ear grin.
You
vibe so high. You always did but now it’s like off the charts. You must
leave trails of warm fuzzies wherever you go.
I had a pretty solid month of different degrees of fatigue.  Then for
the next two months went back to work at half time with 2 hour naps during
mid day.  I  am still not working as I was pre-ibogaine, however then I
was
driven by madness to get the money for obvious reasons.  I so far am not
placing such high value in my labor for $ vs. taking it a little easy and
having peace of mind.
I get that you realize the benefit of eating healthy to heal and I’ve
recall you mention massage, which is detoxing as well as beneficial.  I
found the ibogaine sent me into this healing(physical as well) cleansing,
detoxing  state of ongoing morph. I was physically ultra sensitive to
everything.  What helped me was to do protocols that help support your
body
and mind.  I did chiro and energy work every week as well as colonics
every
week.  I have heard accupuncture mentioned here and would have attempted
it
if not for legistical and financial reasons at the time.  It’s all good.
Use
your instincts and intuition.  Breathing, meditating, yoga, stretching,
visualizing what you intend for yourself and the help and  support you are
thankful to have at your beck and call all work in healing.
I also had an aversion to tv.  The first month not even 5 hours total
tv.  And music day and night.  I had my sleep cd’s.  Still use them
sometimes as my sleep is still erratic after 5 months.  Current sleep
issues
can be from some other source than ibogaine backlash.  I’m still listening
to tons of music. Music is like a legal drug.  It’s so motivating and
soothing and soulful.  I’m also noticing the tv and other stuff will try
to
or creep slowly back in. That’s why these next couple of months are like
gold to do what you can.  I am still feeling completely resistant to
slipping back to drugs, however It’s the behavior that got(kept) me there
that I have to work on and be sure not to hook into someother destructive
pastime.
On the relationship front, just a quick thought, I notice in myself
and
others than there is this emotional stifling from drug use.  So there are
parts of you that are still 15 when you started.  I also would not have
any
relationships the last 10 years of drug use. Just go slow. Friends are
good,
sex is good if that’s what you want, just take a few good long breaths
before you dive in with your young heart before you have a sense of who
you
are, what your needs are and what you have to bring into a relationship.
I love your enthusiasm, your sense of worldliness and innocence all
at
the same time.
I wish for you the healing and happiness you deserve and the
grounding
energy to realize your foes and adversities are there to teach you not to
defeat you. Ding ding .
Much love,
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee

Hey Martee,
You are so beautiful,your email lifts me,as do
your emails to others.You have given so much on this list.

I am drug free,well……,Cannabis now and again,but hey.

I am not lonley,just don’t have to much energy for visitors,
time to get a girlfriend I think.

Been single long enough.
I vowed I would not have another relationship untill
I was drug free.Otherwise to to painfull.

The angels say ,”Hi Martee”.
You know what I never realised just how much of a funny guy I am,
I am rediscovering my self,are you laughing yet?
I crack myself up.

Since being back home the tv has stayed off,3 days no tv. WOW

Just music music music
How long were you to fatigued to be bored for?

I am glad you are in my corner,the water and cotton buds really help.
Ding Ding.O.K I am back out there and my opponent is about to be knocked
out
have to work him a little more.
with love,Jasen,can’t
help
smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Jasen,
I understand the fatigue part.  I was too fatigued to be bored.  I
also found a lot of what I went through during my session didn’t come
to
the surface and make sense until something, usually very obscure, or
someones action, inuendo or verbalizations clicked something in my
memory(brain or mind?) that made me understand the significance of some
of
my visions.  It was also about being alone with someone(self) that
you’re
not sure of what is your motivation, likes, dislikes, reactions to
things
now that it’s not thru a drug veil.  Note the difference between being
alone and lonely, or solace and isolation, or time to reflect and
boredom.
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Haven’t you noticed, suddenley we’re light and breezy,
Because of all the beautiful and new things I’m learning about you
day
by day!
I know this is Korny as hell but it just came out.  I never was a hugh
fan
of showtunes.  Where ever inspiration and acknowledgment comes, hey
it’s
all good!
Truth be told, I feel like the noribogaine has left my brain.
Elvis
has left the building!!  I have had some lower dips than the past few
months but am still doing ok.  I guess this is the reality part.  My
advice to you would be to do whatever work on yourself spiritually,
emotionally, physically (to stay balanced) so you can stay healthy.  I
am
looking forward to starting an already long standing established
Ibogaine
therapy group on Thursday.  I’ll be the new kid on the block.
Jasen, I feel you are an intelligent, kind, open minded, receptive
young man and I’m in your corner along with so many others and all your
angels.
Sending healing energy
and love your way,
Martee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:14:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:58 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure

For those of you who were not able to attend the Ibogaine Roundtable during
the 5th National Harm Reduction conference, we now have a beta version of the
Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure that was presented during the Roundtable in New
Orleans, available at http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html

It is a beta version as the final version will be incorporated in a more
detailed Harm Reduction Conference Report that will hopefully be up in a week or
so.

In the meantime enjoy <http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html> and please
let me know your feelings on the content and if you discover any technical
errors.

Enjoy

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:33:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,
It’s good to know you’re up and about.  Just to let you know, yes, when I read your emails if I’m not cracking up there is an ear to ear grin.  You vibe so high. You always did but now it’s like off the charts. You must leave trails of warm fuzzies wherever you go.
I had a pretty solid month of different degrees of fatigue.  Then for the next two months went back to work at half time with 2 hour naps during mid day.  I  am still not working as I was pre-ibogaine, however then I was driven by madness to get the money for obvious reasons.  I so far am not placing such high value in my labor for $ vs. taking it a little easy and having peace of mind.
I get that you realize the benefit of eating healthy to heal and I’ve recall you mention massage, which is detoxing as well as beneficial.  I found the ibogaine sent me into this healing(physical as well) cleansing, detoxing  state of ongoing morph. I was physically ultra sensitive to everything.  What helped me was to do protocols that help support your body and mind.  I did chiro and energy work every week as well as colonics every week.  I have heard accupuncture mentioned here and would have attempted it if not for legistical and financial reasons at the time.  It’s all good. Use your instincts and intuition.  Breathing, meditating, yoga, stretching, visualizing what you intend for yourself and the help and  support you are thankful to have at your beck and call all work in healing.
I also had an aversion to tv.  The first month not even 5 hours total tv.  And music day and night.  I had my sleep cd’s.  Still use them sometimes as my sleep is still erratic after 5 months.  Current sleep issues can be from some other source than ibogaine backlash.  I’m still listening to tons of music. Music is like a legal drug.  It’s so motivating and soothing and soulful.  I’m also noticing the tv and other stuff will try to or creep slowly back in. That’s why these next couple of months are like gold to do what you can.  I am still feeling completely resistant to slipping back to drugs, however It’s the behavior that got(kept) me there that I have to work on and be sure not to hook into someother destructive pastime.
On the relationship front, just a quick thought, I notice in myself and others than there is this emotional stifling from drug use.  So there are parts of you that are still 15 when you started.  I also would not have any relationships the last 10 years of drug use. Just go slow. Friends are good, sex is good if that’s what you want, just take a few good long breaths before you dive in with your young heart before you have a sense of who you are, what your needs are and what you have to bring into a relationship.
I love your enthusiasm, your sense of worldliness and innocence all at the same time.
I wish for you the healing and happiness you deserve and the grounding energy to realize your foes and adversities are there to teach you not to defeat you. Ding ding .
Much love,
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee

Hey Martee,
You are so beautiful,your email lifts me,as do
your emails to others.You have given so much on this list.

I am drug free,well……,Cannabis now and again,but hey.

I am not lonley,just don’t have to much energy for visitors,
time to get a girlfriend I think.

Been single long enough.
I vowed I would not have another relationship untill
I was drug free.Otherwise to to painfull.

The angels say ,”Hi Martee”.
You know what I never realised just how much of a funny guy I am,
I am rediscovering my self,are you laughing yet?
I crack myself up.

Since being back home the tv has stayed off,3 days no tv. WOW

Just music music music
How long were you to fatigued to be bored for?

I am glad you are in my corner,the water and cotton buds really help.
Ding Ding.O.K I am back out there and my opponent is about to be knocked out
have to work him a little more.
with love,Jasen,can’t help smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Jasen,
I understand the fatigue part.  I was too fatigued to be bored.  I
also found a lot of what I went through during my session didn’t come to
the surface and make sense until something, usually very obscure, or
someones action, inuendo or verbalizations clicked something in my
memory(brain or mind?) that made me understand the significance of some of
my visions.  It was also about being alone with someone(self) that you’re
not sure of what is your motivation, likes, dislikes, reactions to things
now that it’s not thru a drug veil.  Note the difference between being
alone and lonely, or solace and isolation, or time to reflect and boredom.
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Haven’t you noticed, suddenley we’re light and breezy,
Because of all the beautiful and new things I’m learning about you day
by day!
I know this is Korny as hell but it just came out.  I never was a hugh fan
of showtunes.  Where ever inspiration and acknowledgment comes, hey it’s
all good!
Truth be told, I feel like the noribogaine has left my brain. Elvis
has left the building!!  I have had some lower dips than the past few
months but am still doing ok.  I guess this is the reality part.  My
advice to you would be to do whatever work on yourself spiritually,
emotionally, physically (to stay balanced) so you can stay healthy.  I am
looking forward to starting an already long standing established Ibogaine
therapy group on Thursday.  I’ll be the new kid on the block.
Jasen, I feel you are an intelligent, kind, open minded, receptive
young man and I’m in your corner along with so many others and all your
angels.
Sending healing energy
and love your way,
Martee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] {ot} Shameless Self Publicity
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:18:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

A little bit of shameless self publicity with an altruistic twist!

For those of you interested in obtaining a paperback version of the book Amazing Grace, the cheapest price can be had here at $14.50, 5$ off the Amazon price!

www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=20623

Seasons Greetings

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] excerpt is available
Date: December 16, 2004 at 4:37:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.maps.org/avarchive/

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 1:33:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,
I would have to agree with others on the list.
Stay and tell.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee
Date: December 16, 2004 at 1:27:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Martee,
You are so beautiful,your email lifts me,as do
your emails to others.You have given so much on this list.

I am drug free,well……,Cannabis now and again,but hey.

I am not lonley,just don’t have to much energy for visitors,
time to get a girlfriend I think.

Been single long enough.
I vowed I would not have another relationship untill
I was drug free.Otherwise to to painfull.

The angels say ,”Hi Martee”.
You know what I never realised just how much of a funny guy I am,
I am rediscovering my self,are you laughing yet?
I crack myself up.

Since being back home the tv has stayed off,3 days no tv. WOW

Just music music music
How long were you to fatigued to be bored for?

I am glad you are in my corner,the water and cotton buds really help.
Ding Ding.O.K I am back out there and my opponent is about to be knocked out
have to work him a little more.
with love,Jasen,can’t help smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Jasen,
I understand the fatigue part.  I was too fatigued to be bored.  I
also found a lot of what I went through during my session didn’t come to
the surface and make sense until something, usually very obscure, or
someones action, inuendo or verbalizations clicked something in my
memory(brain or mind?) that made me understand the significance of some of
my visions.  It was also about being alone with someone(self) that you’re
not sure of what is your motivation, likes, dislikes, reactions to things
now that it’s not thru a drug veil.  Note the difference between being
alone and lonely, or solace and isolation, or time to reflect and boredom.
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Haven’t you noticed, suddenley we’re light and breezy,
Because of all the beautiful and new things I’m learning about you day
by day!
I know this is Korny as hell but it just came out.  I never was a hugh fan
of showtunes.  Where ever inspiration and acknowledgment comes, hey it’s
all good!
Truth be told, I feel like the noribogaine has left my brain. Elvis
has left the building!!  I have had some lower dips than the past few
months but am still doing ok.  I guess this is the reality part.  My
advice to you would be to do whatever work on yourself spiritually,
emotionally, physically (to stay balanced) so you can stay healthy.  I am
looking forward to starting an already long standing established Ibogaine
therapy group on Thursday.  I’ll be the new kid on the block.
Jasen, I feel you are an intelligent, kind, open minded, receptive
young man and I’m in your corner along with so many others and all your
angels.
Sending healing energy
and love your way,
Martee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 12:58:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those of you who were not able to attend the Ibogaine Roundtable during
the 5th National Harm Reduction conference, we now have a beta version of the
Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure that was presented during the Roundtable in New
Orleans, available at http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html

It is a beta version as the final version will be incorporated in a more
detailed Harm Reduction Conference Report that will hopefully be up in a week or
so.

In the meantime enjoy <http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html> and please
let me know your feelings on the content and if you discover any technical
errors.

Enjoy

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 12:32:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Memorial Service for Gary Webb
Date: December 15, 2004 at 11:23:46 PM EST
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: “From The Wilderness Email Alert List” <subscribers@fromthewilderness.com>
To: <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:13 PM
Subject: Memorial Service for Gary Webb

FTW’s Newest Feature Story

——————————————————————————–
** Memorial Service for Gary Webb **
Doubletree Hotel in Sacramento
Garden Terrace Room
December 18th at 2:00 p.m.
2001 Point West Way (map)
(Ph) 916-929-8855

More at: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/index.html


You received this message because you are a
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 10:59:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: December 15, 2004 at 7:40:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You passed, I’ll give you an A this time but next time try to give more
details in your narrative 😉

.:vector:.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Test   TeSt         tEsT      teSt          my messeges are coming
back
not sent

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:46:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Test   TeSt         tEsT      teSt          my messeges are coming back not sent

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:42:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I want to ride on the peace train with Jeff. Who else is going? But wait ………………..who’s going to stay here and fight the idiocy of the drug war? Preston, you and Howard stay here and kick their ass, the rest of us will run to Canada. I sadly joke about this shit but it kills me. I just don’t get the logic. Drink all the booze you want and here take this methadone and be hooked for the rest of your life but don’t you smoke any herb cause it will kill you.*&^+_)(*&^%$#@#@! Fuck ’em and feed ’em beans. I will not back down from these assholes.                                 Randy
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:54:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man it is mind boggling how narrow minded these cats are! But we know that from their ibogaine track record…
i am getting out a here  asap!
Jeff
Who now can get out …

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:54:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man it is mind boggling how narrow minded these cats are! But we know that from their ibogaine track record…
i am getting out a here  asap!
Jeff
Who now can get out …

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:42:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does sound like withdrawal symptoms, but maybe a trip to an osteopath or
Reiki practitioner wouldn’t be a bad idea?  Perhaps some realignment of
spine or chakra system?  Fine tuning, so to speak…
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com [mailto:Jeffgd1@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 8:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen
my back and pelvis aches but i do not think it is a problem for a dr i
think it is the paying the piper so to speak of ten years on the methadone.
i get these strange waves of painful energy flowing up my spine ….is that
what you are experiencing? I am about a week ahead of you and it is still
not great but way way way better than a week and a half ago.
great hearing from you
jeff

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD – COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:41:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Tue, 14 Dec 2004
Source: New York Times (NY)
Copyright: 2004 The New York Times Company
Contact: letters@nytimes.com
Website: http://www.nytimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/298
Author: Donald G. McNeil, Jr.
Please: See ‘The UMass Amherst MMJ Production Facility Project’ for a
detailed background and timeline along with links to all the documents
involved at http://www.maps.org/mmj/mmjfacility.html
Cited: University of Massachusetts-Amherst
http://www.umass.edu/plsoils/index.html
Cited: Drug Enforcement Administration http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov
Cited: Marijuana Policy Project http://www.mpp.org
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA

A longstanding request to grow marijuana at the University of Massachusetts
so it can be tested for medical uses has been turned down by the Drug
Enforcement Administration.

The decision was faxed to the university on Friday and made public
yesterday by the Marijuana Policy Project, an independent group that favors
legalization of marijuana, particularly for medical uses.

A spokeswoman for the D.E.A. said the agency would have no comment beyond
its order, which gave the university 30 days to appeal.

The dispute is over marijuana in its smoked or vaporized form. Capsules of
THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, one of the plant’s active ingredients, can be
prescribed in many states for cancer and AIDS patients suffering nausea and
appetite loss. But proponents of medical marijuana argue that the inhaled
form is more effective and contains more than 50 active ingredients that
the capsules do not.

In its order, the drug agency said the lone government-licensed marijuana
farm, operated by the University of Mississippi, grew enough for
researchers. It said that 18 medical studies using the drug had been
approved since 2000. But Dr. Lyle E. Craker, the professor of plant biology
at the University of Massachusetts who applied for the license three years
ago, said researchers complained that the government’s marijuana was weak
and that it was hard to get permission to use it.

“We wanted to have a source independent from the government and with a
known potency so doctors can run clinical trials,” he said. Researchers
would still need D.E.A. permission to work with the drug.

In its order, the agency said that after contacting researchers, it
determined that the Mississippi crop was of “sufficient quantity and
quality” to meet the researchers’ needs.

Advocates of medical marijuana complained that the D.E.A. had prejudged the
results of clinical trials of smoked or vaporized marijuana before they
could even be conducted.

The agency’s order said smoking “ultimately cannot be the permitted
delivery system for any potential marijuana medication due to the
deleterious effects and the difficulty in monitoring the efficaciousness.”

In 10 states, including California, patients with a doctor’s recommendation
may smoke marijuana without fear of state prosecution. The federal
government opposes those protections and has arrested users.

—————-
MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association
for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).
To [un]subscribe, email the message text,
[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org
List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum
Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo
Date: December 15, 2004 at 4:22:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Funny as hell finding about the doc and demerol.  As far as tooth pain, go to a drug store or maybe health food store and get clove oil.  A bottle is about 1/2 oz and cost about a dollar.  Don’t discount this.  I am not saying it works as good as in the movie Marathon Man but it is much better than orajel and stuff like that.

I have had Talwin but never been hooked on it.  Do not use Talwin with narcotics like opiates because it acts as a week antaginst.  Do a Google search on Talwin or check out the PDR and it will tell you something like it is about 5% of the antaganist as naltrexon or something like that, I haven’t looked it up in years.  Other than that you have the same problem as a lot of us on the forum – a addict who needs pain meds.  As you know most docs don’t like addicts and will not write for pain meds.  Ask your dentist if there is anything they can give you for pain and that you had trouble with narcotics in the past.  There are a couple of pain meds that can help but as one doc said to me anything strong for pain is addictive.  One that comes to mind is Torradol (sp) the other is Ultram.  I have never taken these so don’t know how they work.  BTW I have read a horror story about a person taking metadone then going to a hospital and getting Standol – Don’t do it – you will go through hell.  If your clean you can take Standol, it is pretty powerful but then again addictive.

Best to ya,

– JIM

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
You make me laugh Randy.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 4:05:45 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is not uncommon for people
coming off of long term narcotic use to find that the narcotics have masked a
physical condition that needs attention.<

as I can vouch for this, I’ll say, yer right Howard, too true.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hi Jasen,

Why don’t you have a doctor look at your back.  Maybe it is nothing to do
with withdrawal at all but, some medical disorder.  It is not uncommon for people
coming off of long term narcotic use to find that the narcotics have masked a
physical condition that needs attention.

Howard

In a message dated 12/15/04 1:52:01 AM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< Hey Jeff,

Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me
too.

Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really
p.ssing me off.

But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am
only talking up to 15%

withdrawals.

I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to
come off  Methadone.

The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken
daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at
a physical level,your soul can

feel tortured wanting to jump out of your
body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.

I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.

With love,Jasen smiling. >>

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:39:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I remember experiencing similar issues, for me it was a lot of getting used to being back in my body.

I’d been ignoring aches and pains by the distraction of opiates, and had been over-compensating usage of certain muscles and I was a mess, physically. chiropractic and massage helped, then again the main reason i got strung out in the first place is because i broke my back, and never really focused much on physical therapy so I had  to re-train all of the muscles in my back. still ain’t quite right and I battle on and off chronic pain to this day.

Stay The Course!

_.dh

On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 09:08 AM, Jeffgd1@aol.com wrote:

Jasen
my back and pelvis aches but i do not think it is a problem for a dr i think it is the paying the piper so to speak of ten years on the methadone.
i get these strange waves of painful energy flowing up my spine ….is that what you are experiencing? I am about a week ahead of you and it is still not great but way way way better than a week and a half ago.
great hearing from you
jeff

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:08:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen
my back and pelvis aches but i do not think it is a problem for a dr i think it is the paying the piper so to speak of ten years on the methadone.
i get these strange waves of painful energy flowing up my spine ….is that what you are experiencing? I am about a week ahead of you and it is still not great but way way way better than a week and a half ago.
great hearing from you
jeff

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:24:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

Why don’t you have a doctor look at your back.  Maybe it is nothing to do
with withdrawal at all but, some medical disorder.  It is not uncommon for people
coming off of long term narcotic use to find that the narcotics have masked a
physical condition that needs attention.

Howard

In a message dated 12/15/04 1:52:01 AM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< Hey Jeff,

Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me
too.

Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really
p.ssing me off.

But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am
only talking up to 15%

withdrawals.

I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to
come off  Methadone.

The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken
daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at
a physical level,your soul can

feel tortured wanting to jump out of your
body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.

I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.

With love,Jasen smiling. >>

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:07:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 15, 2004 at 10:35:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI Allisson

Thanks for getting back to me I know that getting down to a low level of meth is so hard, well done you are clean now and how was your sleeping after the meth?  I would really like to try the ibogaine but it sounds really trippy which is really scary to me.  I think i’ll do the sub again i’ll keep you posted

love donnaxx

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:53:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:26:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx Jasen. If we all pay attention and get a good grade we might be able to come up with something that helps and pass it on.             Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:22:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,
YES FIBROPLEX PLUS,It is a Magnesium compound,with many other minerals,it is sold by Metagenics.
It supplies building blocks for energy production,and seems to ground you a little,relaxes you as magnesium can do.

As you know Randy,when people are in withdrawal,unless what they take takes away all the pain they don’t think it works.
Also Kava Kava and passionflower,it works,helps and the body loves it.
Love ya mate,
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home

Jasen, can you be more specific about this fibroplex? Does this really help the anxiety after Methadone withdrawal treated with Ibogaine? I’m trying to compile information and data to help, esp. with methadone it being so difficult to treat. I am living in your afterglow and it ROCKS. Your beautiful dude, keep it up.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:13:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Ann,
I think you are right about the medicine man/woman.
It is a long haul,but the load is light in comparison to the truck pulling it.

Insomnia,I can’t sleep at the moment,it is past midnight here in the
land of OZ. I do get 5 to 6 hours a day though,nowdays.Oh,I just realised
who you are,you are Randy’s mum. Super Mum,I am in awe at the unconditional
love you have for your son,your love for your son also helped me.

You are great.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ann B. Mullikin
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Greetings and Salutations, Jasen.   Slow but sure you are getting there.  A long haul for you and Randy too
but you are getting there and that’s the most important thing.  I remember how Randy complained about
the insomnia and I was a witness to it.  I’m glad I was because I can give witness to this remarkable
happening.  If there are parents who would talk to me about what took place I will be happy to volunteer.

We all know how Howard came to experience this phenomena but wonder how the pygmies discovered
it?  Must have been a medicine man/woman in the tribe?

Regards,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:03:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, can you be more specific about this fibroplex? Does this really help the anxiety after Methadone withdrawal treated with Ibogaine? I’m trying to compile information and data to help, esp. with methadone it being so difficult to treat. I am living in your afterglow and it ROCKS. Your beautiful dude, keep it up.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:01:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
Yes,I do feel amazing,I am amazing,…Julie.
It is beautiful, magical,the birds in the trees, they are singing so happily,
joyfully,…playfully watching me.

I am getting stronger,becoming better,”we can rebuild him,we have the technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished rebuilding me. …….:)
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Julie,
Nice to hear from you.
Day 21,feeling (was feeling very anxious) as I ran out of fibroplex
Which is a magnesium compound (basically).
Sister sent some got it today,now tolerable.

Legs still not firmly grounded,still feel as if the marrow in my legs is
Not there,hollow feeling.But slowly filling. Restless and home sick.
I am feeling a lot better though I must say.

Tommorow I go to Amsterdam city and I will stay there for 4 days until the
12th then yee ha HOME.Mmmmm I suppose it is my last night here.

Sara is great,it is as if I was doing this at mums place.You are looked
after quite well,and she knows how to dose. I tell you,The cannabis tea,
Cookies and mushrooms helped more than I would have ever thought. helped
tremendously.I was quite unsettled about tripping whilst hangingout,but it
isn’t really tripping,its mushrooms as they were created.

All legal here in Amsterdam,people are allowed to use cannabis for pain
relief or fun.You can legally buy mushrooms in a coffee shop.

I tell you what, I miss company,looking forward to chatting with the girls
and guys in these coffee shops,do you know they even have a hash museum.

How are you feeling now Julie? How many days has it been?
How are you feeling Randy and how many days,where’s sean gone?

Still a bit spacy in the head energy slowly building.If I get to bored and
anxious I just drink some cannabis tea,…….ahh, allright,smoke a joint
and listen to U2,pinkfloyd,and ELO,wish I had brought more cd’s.

Lower back still achey,restless.My mind is becoming clearer.I do feel like a
ciggy now and again,though I am a strong person,I just say,’no
thanks”.Well,…
Not quite that easy.

Oh,yea,I got fire burning in me again,and it feels great.It’s like,….WOW.
A lot of exhausted crying,but really good stuff. I now know for sure,my
brother is ok.It’s almost like I spoke to him but I canot remember what was
said,it was like he was really happy with me lots of love pouring from
him,smiling,just beautiful. We were also the best of mates,confidants.
I was also shown some parts of my life where something hurt me without me
consciously knowing.Then I would cry the blockage out.

WOW we are sensitive beings.

I got spunk in my veins again,like I did at 15 (almost).
I re read the last sentence and think,wow you were just a baby a kid.
Now that kid is free,and I can do anything.

With love Jasen,….smiling.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 17:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:01:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Greetings and Salutations, Jasen.   Slow but sure you are getting there.  A long haul for you and Randy too
but you are getting there and that’s the most important thing.  I remember how Randy complained about
the insomnia and I was a witness to it.  I’m glad I was because I can give witness to this remarkable
happening.  If there are parents who would talk to me about what took place I will be happy to volunteer.

We all know how Howard came to experience this phenomena but wonder how the pygmies discovered
it?  Must have been a medicine man/woman in the tribe?

Regards,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:01:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Huh Huh Huh,good one,I
used to dream of doing so when I was a child.
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “Germán DC” <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home

Jasen,

please don´t end up working for Oscar Goldman.

love from the south.
BRAVO !!!!
gdc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 3:01 AM

-“we can rebuild him,we have the
technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished
rebuilding me. …….:)

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From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 8:52:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen,

please don´t end up working for Oscar Goldman.

love from the south.
BRAVO !!!!
gdc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 3:01 AM

-“we can rebuild him,we have the
technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished
rebuilding me. …….:)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 15, 2004 at 7:56:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jasen,
It’s So great to hear your strong true voice.. So great for you to be free!! I’m So happy for you and positively green with envy! Oh!!! To have a choice! To be able to travel on the spur of the moment! Sheer bliss surely! The liquid handcuffs are really dragging me down, destroying my teeth , stomach and sleep patterns!! I’m so over the whole thing! The great conspiracy! But hopefully by march I’ll be in your place – I’m hoping to be able to visit Sara in Feb. Can you tell me what the exchange rate is- Aust$ to Euro?
I’m living in Melbourne.. Dear downtown St.Kilda.  Where in Aust. are you Jasen?  When you’re totally better I’d love to have a chat about the whole eboga trip! I’m pretty much in the same boat that you’d been rowing…
Smoking fags at 9. Tripping & smoking grass at 12 when my folks split. Addicted to heroin on and off since 15 when I bailed out of school and home. Then as an adult, cocaine for 5 years instead of hammer… Totally Clean for 2 x 3 yr periods …I used to have awesome self restraint.. I could just quit! I resisted going on the methadone programme forever – then broke down and gave in in 2001 when my body Really decided it didn’t want to hang out any more… I’d get admitted to hospital every time I try these days. 47 on Christmas day and so depressed.
But I don’t want to bring you down.. I wanted to say Bravo Jasen!! Be Strong and Well and Victorious!!! and Merry Christmas!!! Happy New Year – The first day of the first year of your new adult life! Make every minute count!
Love Deborah

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:37:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara,
Ok. But it might be reassuring for those on Benzos to hear of others taking treatment successfully for the same dose levels of addiction that they have?
Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Dear Lee,

It is possible, but what’s the point? Each one of them has a different constitution which means  each one will react different to the same dosage.
Your reaction to the extract is totally different then other people, your constitution, issues and motivation of using Iboga/ ibogaine are also different then anybody else is, that is why there is no one shoe that fits all. And that’s why I try to work in tune with the initiate needs physically and mentally.
No matter what the amount they have been on before and how long they have been using.what I look at  is NOW! What would be helpful now.

Sara
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: woensdag 15 december 2004 11:51
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Sara,

I remember Ron asking about the level of addiction they had.

Is it possible to get some kind of measure of benzo use (+whatever else) with body weight, along with the dose lowels of extract taken?

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:14:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee,

It is possible, but what’s the point? Each one of them has a different constitution which means  each one will react different to the same dosage.
Your reaction to the extract is totally different then other people, your constitution, issues and motivation of using Iboga/ ibogaine are also different then anybody else is, that is why there is no one shoe that fits all. And that’s why I try to work in tune with the initiate needs physically and mentally.
No matter what the amount they have been on before and how long they have been using.what I look at  is NOW! What would be helpful now.

Sara
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: woensdag 15 december 2004 11:51
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Sara,

I remember Ron asking about the level of addiction they had.

Is it possible to get some kind of measure of benzo use (+whatever else) with body weight, along with the dose lowels of extract taken?

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:50:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara,

I remember Ron asking about the level of addiction they had.

Is it possible to get some kind of measure of benzo use (+whatever else) with body weight, along with the dose lowels of extract taken?

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen.
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:48:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen.
What you wrote is very beautiful.
I read your other post and agree pretty much with a lot of what you say.
There are differences with the extract, certainly in the beginning. The reason I stopped using it was to do with repeated use. I felt that the body builds up a resistance to the composition far quicker than it does to the ibogaine and thus reduces the effectiveness of the session. However I hope one day I may have the chance of taking eboga in Africa as i would like very much to return to the natural african setting to celebrate the sacrament with brothers. A kind of celebration of reaching the end of my path sometime soon.
Your are a good person Jasen and people like you make the world a better place.
Stay clean for God’s sake and your own.
Theres are a lot you can offer to many who are in dire need.
Love & Light,
Lee

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
There was this one other thing,after ingesting the 5 grams of Eboga,I saw
myself spread eagled
on a round medalion,like an 8 foot in diameter coin. One side of the coin
was jet black and the other a brilliant white.

I was strapped to it,the medalion spun into the air with me on it and then
the black side was ripped out of the medallin
and fell into a black abyss,(no fire or brimstone) :).When the black
detached from the white it felt as if I was falling into the
abyss whilst at the same time knowing I was still on the medallion strapped
to the brilliant diamond white,then the white
medallion with me on it spun up again up up, into all brightness and I was
enveloped in love,turn and face the light you have nothing to fear,
I felt as if I had champagne bubbles going shring shring through out my
body,in a straight line comming up from my stomach
and seperating into two at my shoulders then releasing through my
shoulders,it was a feeling of pure exstacy,pure love
and acceptance,with the knowing that you can not die and nothing is seperate
from me.I feel I was smeltered.

It was my experience of what happens when the body dies,you cannot die,you
vibrate into unother frequency,and leave your carrige behind.
Like what happens in reverse on earth with many incects, serpents,crabs,they
shed there skin,they are not thier skin. Inside out.

I connected with my brother,he was so beautiful,smiling and gleaming,living
in another freqency/dimension whatnot,telling me you cannot die,
and to live fully this is the way to honor his name(this was my wish)His
gleaming face was telling me everything is fine,do not be sad.
life with no end.we are seperate from nothing.I live within you,I feel him
strongly now.

with love Jasen.
>
> I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if
> they
> are too personal and that is not rare at all.
>
> Howard

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen.
Date: December 15, 2004 at 4:01:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There was this one other thing,after ingesting the 5 grams of Eboga,I saw myself spread eagled
on a round medalion,like an 8 foot in diameter coin. One side of the coin was jet black and the other a brilliant white.

I was strapped to it,the medalion spun into the air with me on it and then the black side was ripped out of the medallin
and fell into a black abyss,(no fire or brimstone)  :).When the black detached from the white it felt as if I was falling into the
abyss whilst at the same time knowing I was still on the medallion strapped to the brilliant diamond white,then the white
medallion with me on it spun up again up up, into all brightness and I was enveloped in love,turn and face the light you have nothing to fear,
I felt as if I had champagne bubbles going shring shring through out my body,in a straight line comming up from my stomach
and seperating into two at my shoulders then releasing through my shoulders,it was a feeling of pure exstacy,pure love
and acceptance,with the knowing that you can not die and nothing is seperate from me.I feel I was smeltered.

It was my experience of what happens when the body dies,you cannot die,you vibrate into unother frequency,and leave your carrige behind.
Like what happens in reverse on earth with many incects, serpents,crabs,they shed there skin,they are not thier skin. Inside out.

I connected with my brother,he was so beautiful,smiling and gleaming,living in another freqency/dimension whatnot,telling me you cannot die,
and to live fully this is the way to honor his name(this was my wish)His gleaming face was telling me everything is fine,do not be sad.
life with no end.we are seperate from nothing.I live within you,I feel him strongly now.

with love Jasen.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 3:54:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah… My heart goes out to you.  It can be so hard.  I reckon a lot of the depression and feelings is down to withdrawals.  I think your about my daughters age and just wish I could tuck you up and make you feel better.  Try & think that there is a whole world out there, lots of different things, opportunities and experiences ahead.  Sometimes I think we all need to try a few times before it finally sinks through to our brain that we really don’t want to live like this anymore.  Don’t keep trying to be strong.  If you have a boyfriend or friends that want to help hold your hand out and say yes I need help.  Theres no shame in that and it might help you get stronger in the process.   Take care, Thinking of you & will keep following your posts to see how things go.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 5:55:42 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your wonderful notes-each one helped me in a different way.  You are all wonderful people and I’m very lucky to have you.  I am trying to just function but its not really happening.

I don’t know what to think of anything-I keep telling myself that I have to not let this get me down and I have to grab my opportunities else it’ll always be the same..  But I’m just so unhappy.  He came over last night and we rowed-I was just hurting so bad and he said some bad stuff and now I feel even worse.  On one hand I want to be really nice to him and look like I’m coping but on the other I feel so raw and hurt and desperate.  I’m starting to think I was blind all along.

I guess it will get easier and I am trying.  I see a psychiatrist next week but I saw him once before n he was crap.

Half the time I can’t stop shaking and all I can think is I need a hit cuz I daren’t think of anything else.  I’m scared I’m having a nervous breakdown.  I’m trying to like me but its hard when I hate myself for driving him away somehow.  I cry and can’t eat.

Hell either it’ll get better or it’ll finish me off!  I don’t want H but its all ive got right now.  I’m scoring for this lass else I wouldn’t be doing it at all cuz i can’t afford it myself.

I gave my dog Shiva lots of love today.  Thanks again everyone,  gee now I’m crying again.  I will write again when its something productive.

I hate myself cuz I hate depressed people who whine and that’s exactly what I am.

My dealer just rang so I’ve gotta sort this lass out.  Dunno why I bother-the gears so crap I don’t feel it anyway-the madness of it all!

Lots of love to you all,
I think I’m turning hysterical; 😉

Hannah xxx

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 15, 2004 at 3:44:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No I didn’t use ibogaine because I didn’t really know too much about it back then.  Have been clean for 2 yrs this last time and a couple of yrs a while ago.  Seemed to have bounced around a lot back & forth but am feeling good now and the thought of using almost makes me start coughing up in advance if u know what I mean.  Did a bit of methadone,a lot of pills and a lot of sleeping.  The last few mgs of Methadone were the hardest by far.  Seemed to take ages and hurt lots even though it was down to such a small amount.  Feel like I’ve learned heaps from reading here but still don’t know of anyone in NZ that knows much about ibogaine.  Closest is Jason from Australia who has just been treated by Sarah in Holland and seems to be doing well.   Keep reading all the info.  There are so many people on this site with good advice and that are so well informed.    Best wishes.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 2:05:36 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Allison

Thank you for that last message at least i know there is hope for me and my partner as before i read your message i thought it would never work one off one on, You have done really well i so envy you but watch this space I WILL DO IT !!!  did you use ibogaine????

Love donnax

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Howard!!!!!!!!
Date: December 15, 2004 at 3:11:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,
Religious epiphany,no,.I don’t believe in religion, though I know what you mean. If I had to have a religion as such, it would be KINDNESS.
Science fiction,…Mmmm,well I suppose thats future science,I believe we will one day do what Captain Kirk did
and Star Trek does.

Checked out Amsterdam,would like to do it again when strong and healthy,like I am becoming.
I know if I posted some of my visions it could cause much disruption,some are political and almost to
powerful to believe.Maybe it is just my imagination.

I am still open,I have to be carefull what I let in,this is how I feel,I
think two more weeks and I will be jogging.
Ground controll to Major Tom.
With love,Jasen smiling.

Le 30/11/04 21:13, « HSLotsof@aol.com » <HSLotsof@aol.com> a écrit :

We have known each other before
Julie,I say this with the utmost respect,I feel I know
Randy,Sean,Howard,Martee,preston and wife and others on this list it’s
quite
odd.
Will talk soon Smiles Jasen.

Well Jasen,

We could all say we have been waiting for you. Now is this a religious
epiphany or just a science fiction scenario?  mmmmmm?

Have you checked out Amsterdam as Dave suggested?  One of the art museums
could be a really interesting tour.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if
they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:32:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen

There’s a Museum of Tropical Art or some such that is pretty
amazing, lots of interesting cultural stuff. Plus the Van Gough is
stunning – and small enough to handle if you’re low on energy.

Hey slowone@hush,
Thanks for the email,I got to go to a few places in Amsterdam.
however not as much as I would have liked,the energy level was very very low.

I like art and Van Gough I am pissed that I missed him.
Hey, hows this ,in the red light district the girls are behind windows,so the guys window shop.
Too confronting at the time for me. Maybe when I am a lot older,if I am single that is.

The coffee shops were easy,went to Amsterdam with
Zoe,a girl that I met at Sara’s,she came with her boyfriend Tom,we stayed the night at Amsterdam
as brother and sister type of thing,was great,I feel a conection with them both,strong,we got on great.
Holland is beautiful and so is Sara.
With love, Jasen smiling.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen. 🙂
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:07:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
I ate, drank,and smoked  a lot of  the fruit,
it really helped.I ate some for you too,and smoked a joint for you in
one of the dozen or so coffee shops I visited,it was super skunk
naturally grown,no chemical.You really enjoyed it. 🙂

I am better,my mental strength is getting much better,
body still crying now and then, but not too much.
Guess what ,…I  CAN HANDLE IT. WOO YOO.

I am home,I have not turned the tv on once,I used to watch
hours a night,now I am only interested in music.

I have not fully awakened yet,65 to 70 %.

My understanding is bliss,
My heart was filled with honey,it overflows
it  is wonderful. I wish you and Randy and others were in Australia
so we could go for a coffee now and again,I feel somehow we will meet.

I find I am listening to music I loved when I was 15 and under,
Led zepplin,ELO,Gerry Rafferty,the cars,police,U2.Pink Floyd and supertramp.

Wow,these guys,some of them either tried Eboga,or did a lot of tripping whilst composing some
of their songs,it is like some of the songs were talking to me,Wow what a great guitar solo,”buying a stair way to heaven” Led Zepplin.
I was tempted twice on the first day back,however the choice is easier now,I made my choice,”F.ck off.But
in a nice way,my body wants it my mind does not need it,the Eboga took a lot of the pain away,it cleared my
emotional blockages,healed my hurt,which we all have. I AM BEING HEALED and it is glorious.

Love ya girl.
With love,Jasen Smiling.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:02 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen

You sound so much better, Jasen…glad to hear it.  I
was thinking of you recently, wondering how it was
going for you.

Are you planning to travel at all?  How are the
Netherlands?  I’m so jealous you’re there right now,
and I hope you’ll test the fruits of the Cannabis Cup
for me.

love Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:40:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen

There’s a Museum of Tropical Art or some such that is pretty amazing, lots of interesting cultural stuff. Plus the Van Gough is stunning – and small enough to handle if you’re low on energy.
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:02:30 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
You sound so much better, Jasen…glad to hear it.  I
was thinking of you recently, wondering how it was
going for you.

Are you planning to travel at all?  How are the
Netherlands?  I’m so jealous you’re there right now,
and I hope you’ll test the fruits of the Cannabis Cup
for me.

love Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:36:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mate,for some reason Randy,I cannot imagine you comming accross as preaching,YOU ARE DOING.
I love ya mate.
—– Original Message —–                                   with love, Jasen smiling.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)

Jasen, have you looked at the staying clean link on the Mindvox page? There is some good advice there. I know for me that after 2 months I still feel rewired. The world hasn’t changed but what is in my head has. I intend to make it stay that way. Counseling, 12 step meetings, and being on this list daily keep me in the mix. Plus I never read this list without at least once laughing. It used to make me cry. Really. I really don’t mean to preach, I just want to see you get where you are going and be happy. I sure am.       Randy

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:34:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,
Yeh you are right about the methadone.  It doesn’t seem to matter how low you get, it’s still a nightmare to come off. Heard of a guy who got down to 2 mg a day, and still had trouble!!  Was a huge decision to go back on it, but it’s for the best just now…..all part of the journey.
Kirsty
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 7:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:34:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Lee,
Yes I am a winner,the love and support on this list is amazing,..healing,it is love.
Thankyou,I am experiencing a lot of changes,I am starting to know who you are.
With love Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)

And I know everyone is happy for you. You are doing well post ibo. Looks like you are on a winner. A lot of changes coming through in your posts. Congratulations. Lee

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:26:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:06:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,
I whole heartedly agree with Randy.
With love ,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

thank you. you guys are great! ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron I must repeat myself. If Sara says she can help you I would bet my grandfathers sax that she can. And that sax is the only thing except for my family I didn’t lose in my addiction. None of this is cut and dry. We all took a leap of faith. I’ve had major colon surgery that I didn’t talk about because I was afraid they wouldn’t treat me. I wanted to be clean so I took a leap of faith. My mother held her breath for 2 days while I tripped. It never entered my mind while I was in the holodeck. Ibogaine is a gift from GOD and Mother Nature. They know what to do better than we do. Hang tough dude.         Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey n
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:03:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey N,
I am keeping it up,and it’s rock fu.king solid,
It’s aaaall good.
WOO YOO. With love Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

I can’t believe I am not smoking.No methadone,No
heroin
or cocaine. Nhaata.

WOW.
With love Jasen.

rock.  fucking solid brother.  keep that shit up man.

fukn a
n

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:01:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
Yes,I do feel amazing,I am amazing,…Julie.
It is beautiful, magical,the birds in the trees, they are singing so happily,
joyfully,…playfully watching me.

I am getting stronger,becoming better,”we can rebuild him,we have the technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished rebuilding me. …….:)
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Julie,
Nice to hear from you.
Day 21,feeling (was feeling very anxious) as I ran out of fibroplex
Which is a magnesium compound (basically).
Sister sent some got it today,now tolerable.

Legs still not firmly grounded,still feel as if the marrow in my legs is
Not there,hollow feeling.But slowly filling. Restless and home sick.
I am feeling a lot better though I must say.

Tommorow I go to Amsterdam city and I will stay there for 4 days until the
12th then yee ha HOME.Mmmmm I suppose it is my last night here.

Sara is great,it is as if I was doing this at mums place.You are looked
after quite well,and she knows how to dose. I tell you,The cannabis tea,
Cookies and mushrooms helped more than I would have ever thought. helped
tremendously.I was quite unsettled about tripping whilst hangingout,but it
isn’t really tripping,its mushrooms as they were created.

All legal here in Amsterdam,people are allowed to use cannabis for pain
relief or fun.You can legally buy mushrooms in a coffee shop.

I tell you what, I miss company,looking forward to chatting with the girls
and guys in these coffee shops,do you know they even have a hash museum.

How are you feeling now Julie? How many days has it been?
How are you feeling Randy and how many days,where’s sean gone?

Still a bit spacy in the head energy slowly building.If I get to bored and
anxious I just drink some cannabis tea,…….ahh, allright,smoke a joint
and listen to U2,pinkfloyd,and ELO,wish I had brought more cd’s.

Lower back still achey,restless.My mind is becoming clearer.I do feel like a
ciggy now and again,though I am a strong person,I just say,’no
thanks”.Well,…
Not quite that easy.

Oh,yea,I got fire burning in me again,and it feels great.It’s like,….WOW.
A lot of exhausted crying,but really good stuff. I now know for sure,my
brother is ok.It’s almost like I spoke to him but I canot remember what was
said,it was like he was really happy with me lots of love pouring from
him,smiling,just beautiful. We were also the best of mates,confidants.
I was also shown some parts of my life where something hurt me without me
consciously knowing.Then I would cry the blockage out.

WOW we are sensitive beings.

I got spunk in my veins again,like I did at 15 (almost).
I re read the last sentence and think,wow you were just a baby a kid.
Now that kid is free,and I can do anything.

With love Jasen,….smiling.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 17:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo
Date: December 15, 2004 at 12:25:44 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You make me laugh Randy.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 15, 2004 at 12:12:38 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,
Do you think we should turn the volume up do you mate?
Listening to supertramp,a little uncomfortable now and again,
but I am so high on life and the feeling of freedom,that I can handle
the back pain,stretchy feeling,restlessness and boredom.

I realised why I get bored,because I simply don’t have the energy to do anything..
Huh,I am so happy,anyone thinking of doing it,just do it. I was really scared
and I don’t scare easy,actually I was terrified,untill I took it,then realised, it was beautiful.
With love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:53 AM
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston

I’m too fried for this. YEAAAAAAAAAA      I tried it again, I hope it works. I used to read it all the time when I was in the Catskills at my Mamma’s. The computer and these lists have saved me time and again. Entertained me too. Life ROCKS. Lets make it louder.    Randy

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 9:46:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Hannah,
Gee girl, been having a tough time the last month.

You are carrying on like every one else would. If I was you,with the same situation,the same upbringing
had the same events,I would be doing what you are doing and feeling what you are feeling,you are no different.

You are gorgeous,you just can’t see it at the moment,most of us can.

Breaking up is very hard I know I have been through a few.Broken hearted thinking I would not recover only
to find a deeper love later and again and again.

Christmas eve baby,I too was born on Christmas,and my family used to celebrate it Christmas eve.
Hey Hannah,…guess what,we know what your like and we love you,I know there is more than me.

People that have not used,well,..most anyway do not and cannot understand,they think it is simply a choice.
I went out with a girl that I thought was just it,she was straight,I was on done,well…..when I say straight,she would have no
problem polishing off a bottle or two of wine every day for a month or two.Anyway,she pushed me hard to come  off methadone,
as if I wasn’t already trying,so I tried faster.

At the time I met her I was great,had stopped using and was reducing off methadone,I looked good and was getting fit and trim.
Well,…that soon tumbled.The pressure to come off was intense,I wasn’t only doing it for me now but for her.This put a lot of pressure on me.
We were also running a business at the time.I could see that she was disappointed in me for not going faster,so I would,then I broke
and used,then used a little more and kept doing this for a few weeks until she noticed something up.

She put it to me and said,”are you using”? I told her the truth,but….some people cannot handle the truth,she reacted,dramatically,
getting very depressed,she just was unable to understand I now understand that.We got through that one.When we first met she did not
know I was on methadone or had used,she was head over heals and so was I.After a couple of months of disappearing in the mornings
(to get my dose) she got suspicious,she asked me and I had to tell her whole attitude changed.I said to her,”you have known me for two months
and loved me,I am the same man and will only get better.

She couldn’t get passed that I was on the methadone,it shocked her.Anyway we stayed together for 15 months and broke up,she gave me an ultimatum
and we split. Very painful,but,…I realise now it was a very unhealthy relationship for me.Someone that has not experienced chemical addiction has
no way of knowing how powerful it is.

You do know of course,when you are ready,you are only an hour or two flight from Sara’s
I am starting to ache,have to go finish later.
Remember,you are beautiful.

With love, Jasen.

From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen.Hey Lee.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:26:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee,

I was not referring to anyone in particular.
After reading my own post of some days ago,I thought to myself, If I had done Ibogaine and read
my post I would think ,”That is pretty arrogant”

I got a very strong message and simply wrote what was given to me by ………
I knew that I would upset some people.As if I had taken Ibogaine and heard someone say,
“You have to take Iboga to heal completely”,I would think,…You arrogant pri.k. I added a spark,..a thought,
a maybe possibility.

Is there an energy we cannot measure yet?,..a future science?,do we know all there is to know?,have
we reached the panicle of science?,…of course not,this is not possible,there is always more to
learn, more to do,we can never finish knowing,exploring,what else have the other alkaloids to offer,
that we cannot,or have not measured yet,or simply have not yet reached.

If it were not for Ibogaine,I would still be on Methadone and else.It was because of Ibogaine I found Sara.
I just simply prefer the whole. I have the upmost respect for science and what it has given us.

I would be happier if natural science was given more credit,however it is not profitable or as profitable
for the pharmaceutical companies and I believe it is because of this that natural science has been dampened,
it is not sparking like todays science,it has been dampened by the dollar. Don’t get me wrong,I love money
and science.

Because science cannot prove something does not mean it does not exist.

If it were not for science, Howard Lotsof could not have brought this cure to the world in realisation,as he could
not have been given the powder.If I understand correctly.

If it were not for science,Martiez could not have given us the extract.

If it were not for science Patrick would not have given the world this invaluable list.
If it were not for Ibogaine many people on this list would still be under the chains of addiction.

Ibogaine is  and was a necessary part of this healing,I am simply saying,there is much more we simply
cannot know yet.

If I could not have taken Iboga,I would have taken Ibogaine.However I was unsighted with, they both take you to,
tune you into, a higher consciousness,however with the whole plant you are more protected by what comes in ,what influences you
what you get,what you see and what happens.

It is like the medicine man is there to heal you by himself without the tribe with Ibogaine,with Iboga,the medicine man has more
help and is more able to protect you.Give you the whole treatment.

Thankyou for your email with your thoughts.Please understand where I am coming from.

With love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen

Hi Jasen,

I am not sure who you are refering to when you say you may have put some noses out of joint?

The only post I remember where you were emphatic is your belief in the full alkaloid use of eboga. I did not respond as I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. But that does not mean I agree with all opinions posted.

I once held the same opinion on the extract but now look on the full alkaloid dose as something one can do if they chose but not necessarily the best option. However, in time I would like to see the other alkaloids properly evaluated.

I made no comment at the time on your post as I myself have taken the extract on at least 3 occasions and had the same view initially. But my views have now changed for various reasons.

1. After 6 years of continual and intense use with the HCL not once has this been indicated to me by my guides i.e. that one should use the extract. Yet, they push me on to make eboga better known and ultimately better available.
2. The HCl is easier to distribute and calibrate for what I am trying to do.
3. I have journeyed deeply with eboga in the HCL form and have dealt with a mountain of issues which perhaps some can only imagine.
4. After the second use of the extract I found it less reliable in its action.
5. The spirit of eboga is not the actual chemicals themselves. They simply open the body to its presence. The spirit of eboga has been very much present in my sessions and very powerfully too. It didn’t half appear or half heal. It fully appeared and it fully healed – thanks Eboga!
6. The other alkaloids are interesting to study in what they may have to offer in terms of making the experience less intense initially (perhaps also added features or a difference in style) but at a later stage in use of the HCL I have noted practically every kind of curative experience possible as well as the smooth effects I encountered in my first use of the eboga extract.
7. The idea that one must hold to the whole plant is a purist idea which pays more respect to the chemicals in the plant than it does to the spirit of eboga which functions perfectly well and more predicatably imo. It also smacks of a reactionary view on science. I am also a scientist and see no contradiction between my respect for science and my spirituality.
8. In order for eboga to be accepted in the world community it needs to be rigorously tested. HCL has been but the extract not. As Howard pointed out there is one cause of death in the UK from a male some time after taking the extract and it has never been explained. The point is there are no studies on the extract and no scientific knowledge forthcoming from the person who appears to be the source of its origin.
9. While I feel ok to recommend people to work with Sara and the extract (given that their other options are somewhat bleak) I do have some concerns for private use and its use in general due to the lack of scientific scrutiny of its full contents and their effects.
10. I am happy for your success but don’t let that make you prejudiced against what you have not used and has worked powerfully. That is why I keep my reservations on the extract low key.

Frankly if the spirit of eboga came through eating a Kellogs cardboard box (without any physical side effects – more nourishing btw than the contents), I would do it and I don’t think the spirit of eboga would give a shit(e) either – full respect to the eboga spirit intended -amen.

Those are just a few thoughts on the subject. For me the issue is not about the extract or the HCL. The issue is the intention to succeed and to follow through with the work, as well as the connection one makes with the eboga spirt in whose debt I will always remain and whose healing powers I will do my best to document and pass on.

The politicisation of eboga is a bad idea. Let’s stick with the healing and the spirituality.

So to use your own words and with the utmost of respect: If this post puts peoples noses out of joint, deal with it.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 2:18:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah, my experience is that the more you can sit with the bad
feelings, the more you will find that you can understand them and
take them in stride. It may only be a little bit here and there at
first, but so far this has been the only way out for me (of a
different trap than addiction). It helps to have people to lean on,
like a therapist or friends. They will reflect back to you what a
special, articulate person you are even if you may feel the
opposite. And deep within you is a healing force that you can draw
on to fight the good fight.

Maybe herbs can be useful to calm down without deadening your
feelings so much?

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:59:56 -0800 Hannah Clay
<hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your wonderful notes-each one helped me in a
different way.  You are all wonderful people and I’m very lucky to

have you.  I am trying to just function but its not really
happening.

I don’t know what to think of anything-I keep telling myself that
I have to not let this get me down and I have to grab my
opportunities else it’ll always be the same..  But I’m just so
unhappy.  He came over last night and we rowed-I was just hurting
so bad and he said some bad stuff and now I feel even worse.  On
one hand I want to be really nice to him and look like I’m coping
but on the other I feel so raw and hurt and desperate.  I’m
starting to think I was blind all along.

I guess it will get easier and I am trying.  I see a psychiatrist
next week but I saw him once before n he was crap.

Half the time I can’t stop shaking and all I can think is I need a

hit cuz I daren’t think of anything else.  I’m scared I’m having a

nervous breakdown.  I’m trying to like me but its hard when I hate

myself for driving him away somehow.  I cry and can’t eat.

Hell either it’ll get better or it’ll finish me off!  I don’t want

H but its all ive got right now.  I’m scoring for this lass else I

wouldn’t be doing it at all cuz i can’t afford it myself.

I gave my dog Shiva lots of love today.  Thanks again everyone,
gee now I’m crying again.  I will write again when its something
productive.

I hate myself cuz I hate depressed people who whine and that’s
exactly what I am.

My dealer just rang so I’ve gotta sort this lass out.  Dunno why I

bother-the gears so crap I don’t feel it anyway-the madness of it
all!

Lots of love to you all,
I think I’m turning hysterical; 😉

Hannah xxx

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Beautiful Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:45:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry you’re blue, dear heart. Broken hearts suck.
Reading your post helped remind me of a whole slew of
them, and how desperate it all seems while you are in
the throes of it.  No need to feel bad about feeling
bad – it’s a loss and natural to have a grieving
process for that.  Everyone says time heals for a
reason, but of course that’s little consolation in the
midst of it.  How about blasting your favorite
inspiring “love yourself” song over the stereo —
very, very loud, and repeat as necessary? Two that
come to mind are Gloria Gaynor, “I will Survive” or
Desiree’s “You Gotta Be.”

Hippie hugs of happy hope, Rachel the name changed

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:25:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi hannah

Cant you go to the docs and get something to take the edge off??

love donnax

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:17:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Run Drugs Out of Town Run <rundrugsoutoftownrun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] spiders on drugs- w/photos
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:14:31 PM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Great pictures!  The one that amazed me most was probably the most disorganized web of all done under the influence of caffeine.

Those who worry most about kids and drugs don’t think twice about a super sized Coke. . . .

Bill

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
They seem to do best on peyote/mescaline than on any of the other drugs
given them and worst on caffine and chloral hydrat, if the photos at this
site are any indication. This is interesting to me, considering the last
line of this excerpt below, concerning “most toxic chemicals” and such.
Peace,
Preston
—–

http://www.missblackwidow.com/drugs.html

Results of experiments with Spiders and Drugs
Scientists at the United States National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA) have turned their attention from the mysteries of the
cosmos to a more esoteric area of research: what happens when you get a
spider stoned.
Their experiments have shown that common house spiders spin their webs in
different ways according to the psychotropic drug they have been given.
Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at spinning webs but appeared to
lose concentration about half-way through. Those on Benzedrine – “speed” –
spin their webs “with great gusto, but apparently without much planning
leaving large holes”, according to New Scientist magazine.
Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed by Britons in soft drinks,
tea and coffee, makes spiders incapable of spinning anything better than a
few threads strung together at random. On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of
sleeping pills, spiders “drop off before they even get started”.
Nasa scientists believe the research demonstrates that web-spinning spiders
can be used to test drugs because the more toxic the chemical, the more
deformed was the web.
snip-

more text and photos at above URL

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Dr. Bill Gallagher, DC
Executive Director
Run Drugs Out of Town Run, Inc.
PO Box 25152
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
480-513-3909
http://rundrugsoutoftownrun.org

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 14, 2004 at 12:19:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction
Date: December 14, 2004 at 12:07:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee,

the same thing  can happen with computer addiction also with TV addiction .
pot will no kill your brother unless he doesn’t know what he is doing.

People are looking for comfort in all kinds of ways. pot is one of them.
The need of  comfort can be addictive even when the substance used isn’t.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: m.finman [mailto:mafinman@optonline.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 14 december 2004 16:11
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Hi sara,
Maybe pot is technically not addictive, however the same emotional
mental stuff that drive one with addictive issues, if pot is their drug of
choice, they’re doing the same dance as junkies and such.  I’ve seen it in
my brother.
martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

You heal people with your raw honesty Preston.
Both you and Sara are healing people.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Sorry about that Preston,

“plus is safer and less addictive”.that why…

It is not less addictive but non- addictive.
It is proven not to be addictive.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 15:30
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

I’m not sure who you are responding to Sara, and I think that once again
that language barrier thing has confused the message I wrote.
My described turmoil hasn’t anything to do with my or anyone else’s
cannabis use. My initial problem in this note was with my use and
addiction
to cigarettes, then I moved on to my serious, severe current, reoccuring
issue with banging my drugs again, not to be too open about it on a
public
list or anything.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

“What is happening is that the government is using a
condition they created out of thin air, non-existent,
called “addiction”, to justify its fascistic
prohibitionist actions to the world in an attempt to
demonize and stigmatise cannabis consumers.  Ask your
neighborhood fascist what the “symptoms” of addiction
are.  He either won’t be able to tell you, or he’ll
tell you some nonesense which is a blow by blow
repetition of prohibitionist propaganda statements
found on their advertising.  This is to scare ignorant
non-consumers of cannabis into supporting the
fascistic and illegal crushing of democratic rights of
cannabis consumers.
You know damned well that not using cannabis has
no “withdrawal” symptoms.  Its no different from
stopping the consumption of ice cream, or broccoli, or
any other food, except you are not getting a buzz,
which people who DO know about cannabis know full well
is just harmless fun, and hurts nobody.
So stop playing the innocent.  Those folks you
complain about are trying to murder and torture you
for purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with
your health, safety, welfare, or anyone else’s.  Quit
playing their game, and get on with the reality of
cannabis consumption and the law.  We are all being
preyed on by evil fascist murderers, and we need to
start defending ourselves.”

From my friend…

Greetings crookedeye,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 4:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

Thanks for the suggestion, but being a fond lover of smoking herb with
or
without cigarettes, and having actually tried that before to no avail,
I’m
afraid that ain’t gonna cut it either.
I’ve also tried substuting clove cigs for tobacco, but that really,
really
didn’t cut it either.
It’s been quite some time I’ve been discussing this here, and it sounds
the
same as always, like I’m a weak ass git who can’t find self-control.
Sorry, I’m feeling a bit off-balance and angry at myself for this and
that reason. I can’t seem to find it in myself to open up much about it
(having tried a number of time to do so here but ending up deleting the
message before hitting send), finding myself embarrassed and hateful and
sad, but this is about as far as I feel like taking it publicly. Suffice
it
to say, I’m going to take ibogaine again at some point, as I believe
I’ve
recently noted, but wonder- will this, as with every other freakin’
fucking
“treatment” I’ve ever tried turn into one of these stupid, “oh well,
nuther
failed effort” things? Am I weak? Or am I simply supposed to be taking
my
drugs in the most effective manner possible and should just tell the
rest
of

the world to fuck the hell off? I mean, I seem to be doing fairly well
for
the most part, other than for this irritating, complicating love of drug
effects, foreign molecules, and other socially unacceptable things and
behaviors. And even with those I’m doing fairly well, besides having to
deal

with the complications of trying to do my substances in the way I find
most
effective without feeling too guilty and fucked up about it- and worst
of
all, finding myself hiding it from the people I care most about in the
entire world because, well, most of you (with some possible exceptions
who
will remain unnamed by me for now) understand what I’m talking about and
where I’m coming from.
Anyway, love to you all.
(How can life suck so bad at the same time things are going so fucking
well?)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

I found that when I get the urge to smoke a cig, I just fire up some
ganja
instead and it relieves the urge, plus is safer and less addictive,
physically.  I only want a cigarette when I don’t have herb to smoke.
Maybe herb could help…

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:58:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,

So far, I have agreed with what everyone has said on
the list RE: your situation…Please take care of
yourself…email me offlist if you want to chat..

love Julie

__________________________________
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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:59:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your wonderful notes-each one helped me in a different way.  You are all wonderful people and I’m very lucky to have you.  I am trying to just function but its not really happening.

I don’t know what to think of anything-I keep telling myself that I have to not let this get me down and I have to grab my opportunities else it’ll always be the same..  But I’m just so unhappy.  He came over last night and we rowed-I was just hurting so bad and he said some bad stuff and now I feel even worse.  On one hand I want to be really nice to him and look like I’m coping but on the other I feel so raw and hurt and desperate.  I’m starting to think I was blind all along.

I guess it will get easier and I am trying.  I see a psychiatrist next week but I saw him once before n he was crap.

Half the time I can’t stop shaking and all I can think is I need a hit cuz I daren’t think of anything else.  I’m scared I’m having a nervous breakdown.  I’m trying to like me but its hard when I hate myself for driving him away somehow.  I cry and can’t eat.

Hell either it’ll get better or it’ll finish me off!  I don’t want H but its all ive got right now.  I’m scoring for this lass else I wouldn’t be doing it at all cuz i can’t afford it myself.

I gave my dog Shiva lots of love today.  Thanks again everyone,  gee now I’m crying again.  I will write again when its something productive.

I hate myself cuz I hate depressed people who whine and that’s exactly what I am.

My dealer just rang so I’ve gotta sort this lass out.  Dunno why I bother-the gears so crap I don’t feel it anyway-the madness of it all!

Lots of love to you all,
I think I’m turning hysterical; 😉

Hannah xxx

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:16:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

I realised you were contributing your thoughts there. I just wanted to add my tuppence worth to clarify on my earlier post.
I knew there were some differences in batch but wasn’t sure what they were.
Its something I am going to start paying close attention to.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Lee,

My message was not directed towards anyone in particular but, as the issue of
iboga/ibogaine comes up now and again I just thought I would provide my
personal comment. The important thing is to know the substance you are using. And
it goes further than the substance and must include the exact batch as there
may be differences from manufacturing to manufacturing of either HCl or total
alkaloids or root bark.

Howard

In a message dated 12/14/04 10:05:22 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

>I agree completely Howard.

>My only reason for posting was to highlight a number of issues and to leave
>the question open. I feel uneasy about the romantising of one form over
>another until enough evidence is available in the manner you mention and
>if possible scientifically also. A number of posts have come through somewhat
>prejudiced to the HCl form and that is in part why I posted.
>
>
>
>I also am concerned that some may simply look on the HCL form as being
>overly scientific when it has a lot of advantages in gaining acceptance
>as well as being highly effective.
>
>
>
>I have a lot of respect for Sara’s work. I don’t have the ongoing experience
>she has with the extract and by all accounts she is highly successful in
>the manner she uses it.
>
>
>
>I remain open to learning more.
>
>
>
>Lee
>
>
>
>
>
>HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
>
>
>
>>Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that
>this
>
>>
>
>>shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what
>
>>makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think
>that
>
>the
>
>>loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do
>
>
>both and
>
>>make up my own mind. Randy
>
>
>
>All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value. You have to be familiar with
>
>
>whatever substance you use. If you are serious about learning of these
>
>
>substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses
>and at the
>
>same doses on multiple occasions. That gives you personal knowledge. If
>you
>
>want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge
>of
>
>iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.
>
>
>
>Howard
>
>

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] spiders on drugs- w/photos
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:00:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They seem to do best on peyote/mescaline than on any of the other drugs given them and worst on caffine and chloral hydrat, if the photos at this site are any indication. This is interesting to me, considering the last line of this excerpt below, concerning “most toxic chemicals” and such.
Peace,
Preston
—–

http://www.missblackwidow.com/drugs.html

Results of experiments with Spiders and Drugs
Scientists at the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) have turned their attention from the mysteries of the cosmos to a more esoteric area of research: what happens when you get a spider stoned.
Their experiments have shown that common house spiders spin their webs in different ways according to the psychotropic drug they have been given. Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at spinning webs but appeared to lose concentration about half-way through. Those on Benzedrine – “speed” – spin their webs “with great gusto, but apparently without much planning leaving large holes”, according to New Scientist magazine.
Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed by Britons in soft drinks, tea and coffee, makes spiders incapable of spinning anything better than a few threads strung together at random. On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of sleeping pills, spiders “drop off before they even get started”.
Nasa scientists believe the research demonstrates that web-spinning spiders can be used to test drugs because the more toxic the chemical, the more deformed was the web.
snip-

more text and photos at above URL

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Structures of Psychedelic Experience, i.e. the N.A.C.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:54:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I also don’t think I’d  personally enjoy the
regimentation imposed by someone else on my trip, even

in a church setting, although I would like to try
participating in one of these services someday. That
would be interesting but for now I don’t think
I’d want to join any church no matter what their
sacrament- but never say never, right?

I didn’t think anyone was dissing native people.  I
thought the nuances to what limited legal standing the
N.A.C. has in the U.S. were being lost in the “they
should know better” assessment.

They institutionalized “the” church to adapt to the
requirements of colonial bureacracies of
eurocapitalist state formation.  And it is very much a
syncretic relgion – melding missionized beliefs with
both ancient tribal spirituality and refigured Peyote
suggestions appropriate to the new situation (I think
akin to how Lee talks about his Eboga guides
directions to his work.) But the ritualization and
structure of a meeting are what helps integrates the
experience of the Peyote eater into the larger
community.  See, for example, Stewart Brand’s
description in The Psychedelic Review No. 9 (1967)
which you can find in The Archives by scrolling down
from this link:

http://www.maps.org/psychedelicreview/

I’ve been thinking about this comparison between Iboga
and Peyote a lot, because I have friends who have been
cured of alcoholism by membership in the Church.  And
others who have relapsed despite being members of
“high” standing.  Its the analogy I use frequently in
trying to describe what is going on in Ibogaine world
to friends and family concerned about Jeff’s recovery
(and my sanity).  Perhaps that is overthinking, or
unnecessary rationalization, but it works for my
Being.

As for subtlety, I’m just trying to be clear that
there is a lot (a lot a lot!) of diversity of opinon
about who or what should benefit from the specific
path of legal protection won by that Church.  I think
the caution comes because of half-hearted efforts by
some psychedelic warriors to “glom onto” (by which I
mean piggyback and I wish I knew where the heck I got
the word “glom” into my vocabulary from!) precariously
protected Native rights that felt (and feels) to some
Native people as a form of spiritual colonialism.

Plenty of folks have far more tolerance for inclusive
communion than the party which joined the opposition
in this specific case. But the fact that some don’t
has legitimate and historically formed reasoning to be
found in the trails of broken treaties.

I sense there are some considerations to be made on
this power inequality when it comes to all tribal
survivance of Plant Medicines and Spirit in the modern
situation.  If that’s political, well, welcome to my
jungle.

love, Rachel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:47:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,

My message was not directed towards anyone in particular but, as the issue of
iboga/ibogaine comes up now and again I just thought I would provide my
personal comment.  The important thing is to know the substance you are using.  And
it goes further than the substance and must include the exact batch as there
may be differences from manufacturing to manufacturing of either HCl or total
alkaloids or root bark.

Howard

In a message dated 12/14/04 10:05:22 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

I agree completely Howard.

My only reason for posting was to highlight a number of issues and to leave
the question open. I feel uneasy about the romantising of one form over
another until enough evidence is available in the manner you mention and
if possible scientifically also. A number of posts have come through somewhat
prejudiced to the HCl form and that is in part why I posted.

I also am concerned that some may simply look on the HCL form as being
overly scientific when it has a lot of advantages in gaining acceptance
as well as being highly effective.

I have a lot of respect for Sara’s work. I don’t have the ongoing experience
she has with the extract and by all accounts she is highly successful in
the manner she uses it.

I remain open to learning more.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that
this

shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what

makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think
that

the

loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do

both and

make up my own mind. Randy

All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value. You have to be familiar with

whatever substance you use. If you are serious about learning of these

substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses
and at the

same doses on multiple occasions. That gives you personal knowledge. If
you

want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge
of

iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.

Howard

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:11:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi sara,
Maybe pot is technically not addictive, however the same emotional mental stuff that drive one with addictive issues, if pot is their drug of choice, they’re doing the same dance as junkies and such.  I’ve seen it in my brother.
martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

You heal people with your raw honesty Preston.
Both you and Sara are healing people.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Sorry about that Preston,

“plus is safer and less addictive”.that why…

It is not less addictive but non- addictive.
It is proven not to be addictive.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 15:30
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

I’m not sure who you are responding to Sara, and I think that once again
that language barrier thing has confused the message I wrote.
My described turmoil hasn’t anything to do with my or anyone else’s
cannabis use. My initial problem in this note was with my use and addiction
to cigarettes, then I moved on to my serious, severe current, reoccuring
issue with banging my drugs again, not to be too open about it on a public
list or anything.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

“What is happening is that the government is using a
condition they created out of thin air, non-existent,
called “addiction”, to justify its fascistic
prohibitionist actions to the world in an attempt to
demonize and stigmatise cannabis consumers.  Ask your
neighborhood fascist what the “symptoms” of addiction
are.  He either won’t be able to tell you, or he’ll
tell you some nonesense which is a blow by blow
repetition of prohibitionist propaganda statements
found on their advertising.  This is to scare ignorant
non-consumers of cannabis into supporting the
fascistic and illegal crushing of democratic rights of
cannabis consumers.
You know damned well that not using cannabis has
no “withdrawal” symptoms.  Its no different from
stopping the consumption of ice cream, or broccoli, or
any other food, except you are not getting a buzz,
which people who DO know about cannabis know full well
is just harmless fun, and hurts nobody.
So stop playing the innocent.  Those folks you
complain about are trying to murder and torture you
for purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with
your health, safety, welfare, or anyone else’s.  Quit
playing their game, and get on with the reality of
cannabis consumption and the law.  We are all being
preyed on by evil fascist murderers, and we need to
start defending ourselves.”

From my friend…

Greetings crookedeye,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 4:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

Thanks for the suggestion, but being a fond lover of smoking herb with or
without cigarettes, and having actually tried that before to no avail, I’m
afraid that ain’t gonna cut it either.
I’ve also tried substuting clove cigs for tobacco, but that really, really
didn’t cut it either.
It’s been quite some time I’ve been discussing this here, and it sounds
the
same as always, like I’m a weak ass git who can’t find self-control.
Sorry, I’m feeling a bit off-balance and angry at myself for this and
that reason. I can’t seem to find it in myself to open up much about it
(having tried a number of time to do so here but ending up deleting the
message before hitting send), finding myself embarrassed and hateful and
sad, but this is about as far as I feel like taking it publicly. Suffice
it
to say, I’m going to take ibogaine again at some point, as I believe I’ve
recently noted, but wonder- will this, as with every other freakin’
fucking
“treatment” I’ve ever tried turn into one of these stupid, “oh well,
nuther
failed effort” things? Am I weak? Or am I simply supposed to be taking my
drugs in the most effective manner possible and should just tell the rest
of

the world to fuck the hell off? I mean, I seem to be doing fairly well for
the most part, other than for this irritating, complicating love of drug
effects, foreign molecules, and other socially unacceptable things and
behaviors. And even with those I’m doing fairly well, besides having to
deal

with the complications of trying to do my substances in the way I find
most
effective without feeling too guilty and fucked up about it- and worst of
all, finding myself hiding it from the people I care most about in the
entire world because, well, most of you (with some possible exceptions who
will remain unnamed by me for now) understand what I’m talking about and
where I’m coming from.
Anyway, love to you all.
(How can life suck so bad at the same time things are going so fucking
well?)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

I found that when I get the urge to smoke a cig, I just fire up some ganja
instead and it relieves the urge, plus is safer and less addictive,
physically.  I only want a cigarette when I don’t have herb to smoke.
Maybe herb could help…

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:04:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree completely Howard.

My only reason for posting was to highlight a number of issues and to leave the question open. I feel uneasy about the romantising of one form over another until enough evidence is available in the manner you mention and if possible scientifically also. A number of posts have come through somewhat prejudiced to the HCl form and that is in part why I posted.

I also am concerned that some may simply look on the HCL form as being overly scientific when it has a lot of advantages in gaining acceptance as well as being highly effective.

I have a lot of respect for Sara’s work. I don’t have the ongoing experience she has with the extract and by all accounts she is highly successful in the manner she uses it.

I remain open to learning more.

Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

>Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that this
>
>shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what
>makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think that
the
>loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do
both and
>make up my own mind. Randy

All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value. You have to be familiar with
whatever substance you use. If you are serious about learning of these
substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses and at the
same doses on multiple occasions. That gives you personal knowledge. If you
want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge of
iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.

Howard

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 9:40:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that this

shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what
makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think that
the
loving  treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do
both and
make up my own mind.                Randy

All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value.  You have to be familiar with
whatever substance you use.  If you are serious about learning of these
substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses and at the
same doses on multiple occasions.  That gives you personal knowledge.  If you
want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge of
iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (kinda ot) Re: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church
Date: December 14, 2004 at 9:17:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy wrote >Rachel, now you have done it. You went and talked about Native Americans rights. I think they have been persecuted worse than any other country or group of people the US has ever come in contact with.<

I’ve already deleted Rachel’s note by accident, so I don’t remember what she said completely, but I hope it’s understood I’m not ragging on Native Americans because they’re Native Americans, I’m ragging on anyone at all who engages in prejudice no matter what they use to justify it.
WIth this in mind, for those who’d like some more info on what’s been done to the Native residents of this land, here’s an older essay I published at disinfo.com. This is followed by a whole bunch of links at this URL.
Enjoy.
Peace and love,
Preston
—–

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id257/pg1/

the first native americans are still here
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@nyc.rr.com) – October 18, 2000

In the United States of America there are people who are not often mentioned when the press talks of genocide. These people were not mentioned when the Kosovar Albanians were being expelled from their homes by Serbs, and by NATO bombs. When the pundits speak of the treatment of civilian Chechens by Russian military forces, these people are never remembered. Who remembers the American Natives, the indigenous people of North America, who now make up one percent of the US population? If the US violates its own internal treaties, what does this say to the rest of the world?
The destruction of the indigenous peoples on these shores was near total. For those few that remained, life became a struggle merely to survive. Gambling and Oil have helped some tribes ‘cash in’ on being Indian, but what about the rest? According to information at ‘Treaty Productions’ Homepage, as of 1998, 335 000 Native Americans were homeless, (29 percent), 678 500 lived in substandard housing, (59 percent), 793 500 live in severe over-crowding, (69 percent). Some 371 treaties were signed between the US, and the Native American nations. Not only has the US violated every single one of these treaties, but they continue to violate them to this day!
According to the article ‘Covert War Against the Native Americans’ by Ward Churchill, “60 percent of all known US uranium reserves lie under Native American Reservation lands, and another 10 to 15 percent lie under contested treaty areas.” Nearly one third of all minable coal reserves lie under Native American reservations, jumping up to 50 percent if the contested treaty areas are included in the figures. 15 percent of the US reserves of natural gas lies under the reservations, and another 15 percent lies under the disputed treaty lands, and the same goes for oil. This is an intolerable situation for the US government. Therefore it has taken to continuing its long clandestine war against the American indigenous peoples.
Independent researcher Candy Hamilton compiled evidence, Churchill reports, that since the Wounded Knee event in 1973, on the Lakota Sioux reservation at least 342 ‘American Indian Movement’ (AIM) members and supporters have been assassinated by death squads aligned with and supported by the FBI. COINTELPRO operations were carried out against AIM, and other Native American movements, creating rifts among the Native activists, locking up or killing those who could not be shut up.
Dan Russell, in his incredible book ‘Drug War’ writes of how Native Americans were spoken of in terms of Americanization, “as though they had actually just come from India.” Russell recounts how Captain John Gregory Bourke, the US Cavalry officer who once forced the surrender of Geronimo, and who fought against Crazy Horse’s Sioux, and the Northern Cheyenne, wrote, “to improve the condition of the Indians as tribes is simply an impossibility . . .They must first be crushed by the overwhelming forces of the Government, whose civilizing influences can then hope to find a free, perhaps fruitful field of labor among the new generations, treated as individuals, but never as tribes.”
The attitude of treating Native Americans as sub-human, even having genocide preached and practiced upon them, has been exhibited by the least likely people, including even L. Frank Baum, author of ‘The Wonderful Wizard of Oz’. Baum twice demanded the complete extermination of the Sioux Nations in editorials he wrote in his newspaper in Aberdeen, South Dakota, between 1888, and 1891.
Take a minute the next time a politician promotes some ‘socially conscious’ program to help refugees across the sea. Think about who were here on these shores, and still remains, hidden behind disinformation, myths, and the reservation fences.
Lotsa links follow at the above URL just for a reminder.

—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church

Rachel, now you have done it. You went and talked about Native Americans rights. I think they have been persecuted worse than any other country or group of people the US has ever come in contact with.                Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:13:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel, now you have done it. You went and talked about Native Americans rights. I think they have been persecuted worse than any other country or group of people the US has ever come in contact with.                Randy

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:08:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi jasen

Well done to you I think its fantastic you can achieve what ever you want

Love donnax

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:04:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Allison

Thank you for that last message at least i know there is hope for me and my partner as before i read your message i thought it would never work one off one on, You have done really well i so envy you but watch this space I WILL DO IT !!!  did you use ibogaine????

Love donnax

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:04:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that this shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think that the loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do both and make up my own mind.                Randy
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 6:55:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

I am not sure who you are refering to when you say you may have put some noses out of joint?

The only post I remember where you were emphatic is your belief in the full alkaloid use of eboga. I did not respond as I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. But that does not mean I agree with all opinions posted.

I once held the same opinion on the extract but now look on the full alkaloid dose as something one can do if they chose but not necessarily the best option. However, in time I would like to see the other alkaloids properly evaluated.

I made no comment at the time on your post as I myself have taken the extract on at least 3 occasions and had the same view initially. But my views have now changed for various reasons.

1. After 6 years of continual and intense use with the HCL not once has this been indicated to me by my guides i.e. that one should use the extract. Yet, they push me on to make eboga better known and ultimately better available.
2. The HCl is easier to distribute and calibrate for what I am trying to do.
3. I have journeyed deeply with eboga in the HCL form and have dealt with a mountain of issues which perhaps some can only imagine.
4. After the second use of the extract I found it less reliable in its action.
5. The spirit of eboga is not the actual chemicals themselves. They simply open the body to its presence. The spirit of eboga has been very much present in my sessions and very powerfully too. It didn’t half appear or half heal. It fully appeared and it fully healed – thanks Eboga!
6. The other alkaloids are interesting to study in what they may have to offer in terms of making the experience less intense initially (perhaps also added features or a difference in style) but at a later stage in use of the HCL I have noted practically every kind of curative experience possible as well as the smooth effects I encountered in my first use of the eboga extract.
7. The idea that one must hold to the whole plant is a purist idea which pays more respect to the chemicals in the plant than it does to the spirit of eboga which functions perfectly well and more predicatably imo. It also smacks of a reactionary view on science. I am also a scientist and see no contradiction between my respect for science and my spirituality.
8. In order for eboga to be accepted in the world community it needs to be rigorously tested. HCL has been but the extract not. As Howard pointed out there is one cause of death in the UK from a male some time after taking the extract and it has never been explained. The point is there are no studies on the extract and no scientific knowledge forthcoming from the person who appears to be the source of its origin.
9. While I feel ok to recommend people to work with Sara and the extract (given that their other options are somewhat bleak) I do have some concerns for private use and its use in general due to the lack of scientific scrutiny of its full contents and their effects.
10. I am happy for your success but don’t let that make you prejudiced against what you have not used and has worked powerfully. That is why I keep my reservations on the extract low key.

Frankly if the spirit of eboga came through eating a Kellogs cardboard box (without any physical side effects – more nourishing btw than the contents), I would do it and I don’t think the spirit of eboga would give a shit(e) either – full respect to the eboga spirit intended -amen.

Those are just a few thoughts on the subject. For me the issue is not about the extract or the HCL. The issue is the intention to succeed and to follow through with the work, as well as the connection one makes with the eboga spirt in whose debt I will always remain and whose healing powers I will do my best to document and pass on.

The politicisation of eboga is a bad idea. Let’s stick with the healing and the spirituality.

So to use your own words and with the utmost of respect: If this post puts peoples noses out of joint, deal with it.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:58:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah

My heart goes out to you this is exactly what happened to me last xmas, Randy is right you need to look after yourself gear is not the answer it will just block it all out but then it comes back even worse

take care of you

Donna

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:40:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen it is so good to see your post. I know exactly how you feel. Ibogaine is miracle medicine and the world must know about it and it’s up to us to let them know. I personally would do about anything (short of hurting someone) to get this done. Man, when you said that about the opium den I was right there with you, I could smell it. Well, maybe it was the White Willow wafting about the room, but I could smell something. I’m still sick but I know that now. (HeHe) Better sick or sick better or whatever, all I know is I am way cool with where I am and where I am going and I owe it to the underground and Ibogaine.(and Patrick and Dave and Howard and Frank and Sara and Mamma and Preston and Marc and Steve Anker and Sean and I want to thank the Academy for this Grammy,…..errr sorry)   It just struck me that I could REALLY live my life without being addicted if I so choose. I so choose. Good to see you back.                  Randy

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:07:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,

I am sorry to hear of your situation. It sucks deeply.

The path to health and happiness is at times a deeply demanding one filled with a lot of sadness and lonliness. I am sorry that it has come now for you at this time.

Its definitely a wake up call.

You know what steps you need to take. My best advice to you is this: Begin to take them now before you have an even deeper crises. Don’t let a sudden let up (ie a period of calm) allow you to fall back on your old ways.

I will be thinking of you and sending some energy your way.

Love & Light

Lee

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:02:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah, my heart goes out to you because you sound a lot like me, but I have to ask the obvious. Do you think that you having your ex being there had anything to do with your boyfriend leaving? It’s hard for guys to admit that another guy is a threat to them. I think that most of us here just want you to get well no matter what. I wish you would start thinking like that. You can’t protect anyone else (except your dog) until you have protected yourself and how can you care for someone else when you don’t care for yourself? I know how your dog feels, I can’t stand to see a girl cry either. Hell, I can’t stand to see anyone cry. My cat Grady was so in tune to my emotions it was uncanny, I still grieve for him 10 years later. He got me through one of the toughest times in my life. His purring soothed my soul and I think he knew it. He sure did it all the time. Now I’m crying. Keep your chin up and keep posting and we’ll get through the holidays.             Randy       PS It sure seems like a good time to think about Ibogaine. Can you handle it?
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:14:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 6:55:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

I am not sure who you are refering to when you say you may have put some noses out of joint?

The only post I remember where you were emphatic is your belief in the full alkaloid use of eboga. I did not respond as I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. But that does not mean I agree with all opinions posted.

I once held the same opinion on the extract but now look on the full alkaloid dose as something one can do if they chose but not necessarily the best option. However, in time I would like to see the other alkaloids properly evaluated.

I made no comment at the time on your post as I myself have taken the extract on at least 3 occasions and had the same view initially. But my views have now changed for various reasons.

1. After 6 years of continual and intense use with the HCL not once has this been indicated to me by my guides i.e. that one should use the extract. Yet, they push me on to make eboga better known and ultimately better available.
2. The HCl is easier to distribute and calibrate for what I am trying to do.
3. I have journeyed deeply with eboga in the HCL form and have dealt with a mountain of issues which perhaps some can only imagine.
4. After the second use of the extract I found it less reliable in its action.
5. The spirit of eboga is not the actual chemicals themselves. They simply open the body to its presence. The spirit of eboga has been very much present in my sessions and very powerfully too. It didn’t half appear or half heal. It fully appeared and it fully healed – thanks Eboga!
6. The other alkaloids are interesting to study in what they may have to offer in terms of making the experience less intense initially (perhaps also added features or a difference in style) but at a later stage in use of the HCL I have noted practically every kind of curative experience possible as well as the smooth effects I encountered in my first use of the eboga extract.
7. The idea that one must hold to the whole plant is a purist idea which pays more respect to the chemicals in the plant than it does to the spirit of eboga which functions perfectly well and more predicatably imo. It also smacks of a reactionary view on science. I am also a scientist and see no contradiction between my respect for science and my spirituality.
8. In order for eboga to be accepted in the world community it needs to be rigorously tested. HCL has been but the extract not. As Howard pointed out there is one cause of death in the UK from a male some time after taking the extract and it has never been explained. The point is there are no studies on the extract and no scientific knowledge forthcoming from the person who appears to be the source of its origin.
9. While I feel ok to recommend people to work with Sara and the extract (given that their other options are somewhat bleak) I do have some concerns for private use and its use in general due to the lack of scientific scrutiny of its full contents and their effects.
10. I am happy for your success but don’t let that make you prejudiced against what you have not used and has worked powerfully. That is why I keep my reservations on the extract low key.

Frankly if the spirit of eboga came through eating a Kellogs cardboard box (without any physical side effects – more nourishing btw than the contents), I would do it and I don’t think the spirit of eboga would give a shit(e) either – full respect to the eboga spirit intended -amen.

Those are just a few thoughts on the subject. For me the issue is not about the extract or the HCL. The issue is the intention to succeed and to follow through with the work, as well as the connection one makes with the eboga spirt in whose debt I will always remain and whose healing powers I will do my best to document and pass on.

The politicisation of eboga is a bad idea. Let’s stick with the healing and the spirituality.

So to use your own words and with the utmost of respect: If this post puts peoples noses out of joint, deal with it.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 14, 2004 at 5:31:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t give up too easily.  My partner and I had such a co-dependant relationship with using.  We blamed each other, life was shit, we ended up splitting up for 2 yrs but ended up back together and have finally sorted a lot of things out after 18 odd yrs of ups and downs.  A lot of downs and a few ups at the end.  He is on methadone maintenance at 85 a day and I haven’t had any methadone or used for the last couple of years which is a real achievement.  I can’t speak for anyone else but I just knew I had to take myself out of the whole circle of friends and everything else to survive cos otherwise I was just making myself sicker and sicker.  I had a really good friend that my daughter and I stayed with and for a while she cooked and helped me out and I’ve never forgotten that.  I know that if someone else needed it I would be glad to be able to do it for them as well.  Am sure other people have told you this but you have to look after yourself first and get some strength and then look forward.  Lots of best wishes and good luck.  Allison
PS:  Message for Kirsty in NZ if you are reading this.  I’ve been reading your mail.  I live in Wanaka and if you want to write to me on list I’ll be checking the mail or if theres anything I can do for you living sort of roundabouts you could always contact me at paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz.  . .

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 1:40:53 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 4:37:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

Hello dear list,
I am home..,sitting at my computer,listening to the cars(the band)
a candle burns beside me,it’s daylight,I don’t know why I just lit my second candle.
Cooking  organic  spelt spagetti,organic lamb mince with a organic sauce.Mmmm.

Join me.

Not much energy,but felt like I had to cook,….wholesome.
Day 28,residual withdrawel  0 to 12%  up and down .However I am on top of the world,I can achieve whatever I choose.
Remeber though,I was on methadone for 23 years,with maybe 5 year break as was using heroin,a lot of heroin,
I was first put on the program at age 15(Methadone program)Dealing heroin with a big habit at 15, first injecting at 14.
Thats why I am still not the best physically,if you do this from heroin,morphine,preferably opium ect,it will
be easier.Or if you have only been on the Methadone for a short while,Hey,..Even if you have been on the Methadone
for 20 30 or 40 years,it can be done. Look at Randy and I,and others,..20 years plus,We are doing it.We are….Awakening

I suggest you do a similar thing as Julie did,try to substitute Methadone for a shorter acting opiate,not antaganist,
just morphine,heroin,or ect.

I was going to go to an opium den in China and spend a month to 6 weeks smoking opium untill the bulk of the Methadone
was out of my system,then go to Sara’s. To much time away for me at the time.

In my previous postings I said some things that I felt I had to say,knowing full well ,that I would be putting noses out of joint,
this is not my intention, nor was it .I come from love,if you recoil at that,…ask yourself why.

The freedom I feel is glorious,even though I am still a little sick,it is a very different energy,I am simply unwell getting better.

I am free of ALL addiction,do you know how powerfull that is,…of course you do.

I was addicted to Methadone,Heroin,occasional cocaine use,nicotine(I have been buying ciggarettes since grade 5 (age 11).

I got into everything early as I was the youngest of 4 and wanted to be cool,…in the cool scene,you don’t realise
untill much later just how UNcool it is. Anyway,..Methadone ,nicotine,sugar(a biggie for me),heroin and occasional cocaine.
ALL GONE. I still cannot grip the enormitiy of this.In less than 30 days.

I feel as if it will take me 40 days and nights,tempted by the devil ,so to say.
I say devil as in ,”A thing that is not working for you or for your highest good.”

Back starting to ache a bit,still feeling a bit Argghhh,but hey, what do you expect?

Thankyou so much,so so much to everyones support and love,it really does make a difference.Understanding,we all want to be understood.
I will reply to every email.
I have 2300 emails and more to look at,not personal emails,..list emails mainly,and my work.

Listening to the “police singing ‘ “Roxanne”,brings back memories,releasing emotions. I had a girlfriend who’s name was Roxanne,when I was 15,she was a working girl,divorced with 2 children,her husband had the children,we went out for 2 and a half years,she was 27. She overdosed when I was 18,we were not together at the time.We had split approx a year previously.

I am blessed to have a sister who is a naturopath and a very good one at that.

I have so much to tell,but not the mental energy to do so,emails getting a bit long anyway.

Will continue to write on the chance it helps others.
Iboga/Ibogaine is the baptising. Personally I would take the whole 20 alkaloids in Iboga,If Iboga was not there I would take Ibogaine.

My soul is starting to SHINE through my eyes,it’;s life.
With love  Smiles Jasen.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 2:02:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

In a message dated 11/27/04 6:03:11 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Just fuc ing boring.

Hi Jasen,

I can share some thoughts that is all.  What is boring.  Go to the center of
boring and tell us what it is.  Then tell us what is not boring?  I might be
able to answer these questions but then they would be my answers.

Howard

***What more can I ask,Howard ,I feel you are a man among men,
There is much greatness on this list,it’s igniting,with love.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: RE: [Ibogaine] Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:52:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Cap,
Most definatley opium(raw).If possible.
I said heroin is natural in a recent posting,I should have
said Opium. As mother earth intended it.
I will write more when more mental energy.
With love Jasen(by the way ,…really big smiles now days,I,m so excited.
Do it.
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 10:20 PM
Subject: Spam Alert: RE: [Ibogaine] Jasen at Sara’s

I’m wondering then about switching to poppy seed a week or two before Iboga…..although that still leaves the question of pesticides. Cannot get heroin here, the most pure form would be opium from the plant itself…..but we turn that with AA……..
What would you others think would be the most natural substance to use before the Iboga experience?
(minus the 24-48 hour without)
Thanks!
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Sent: Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:40 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen at Sara’s

Hey guys,
I am still very exausted,it is day 12.
I now understand why when this Eboga is done,people don’t write much. They simply don’t have the energy.
Eboga seems to fine tune the body,to allow the body to vibrate to the same frequency as the Natural medicine,
Being Eboga.

I have been reborn,I am now all man. The eboga saves lost souls(addicted bodies) whethter the addiction is smoking,alchohol,
Drugs. Julie I miss you, we have a heartfelt connection.

Preston,for some reason,I am missing you and your misses,also Sean,and Randy.

I am so spritualy exausted.

I suggest to any one that can to go from heroin to eboga. Methadone is to much on the body,
It causes blockages in energy which in return makes you sick,Methadone is NOT natural. Heroin is.
To save the tortured souls,our souls,we need to put people on a heroin program then to eboga.

This has been 23 years for me,since I was 15,I am now 38.

Please write to me forward Sara ‘s email (TO JASEN).

I am so fuc ing bored. Julie write to me I need company,address to Sara’s.

Eboga causes you to withdraw on four plains(on four frequencies that tunes into our god self.
God save the world.

The relevations have become,rise up and claim whats yours.

You are puuuuure love you are of god.
Smiling still,Jasen.

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:45:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok cool, can someone fast post (airmail) Sara over here right away please??
Oh, and she must come cheap!! Lol
Ahhhhhh well, maybe I’ll win the lottery in the next few months ay?  (Shit,
I guess I’d better play it first lol)
U go Jasen~!
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 7:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

It is very reliable with Sara.
Sara seems to be in tune with the Iboga and the patient.
If you put your trust in Sara you will succeed…..
—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Howard,
Is the Indra product reliable? Otherwise, where would one find the HCL?
Thanking you…

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2004 3:58 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

For list information, Jasen is talking about doses of ibogaine extract
somewhat similar to the indra product and not ibogaine HCl.  It also
appears
to me
that Sara is the only provider who approaches the use of iboga/ibogaine
with
no
set time limitations to patient care on a continuous dose regimen basis.
Those of you who provide ibogaine know who overwhelming the time issue can
be.
It is too bad that some government will not provide a medical facility and
support so ibogaine providers from around the world could demonstrate
their
particular techniques and dose regimens for comparative evaluation and
mutual
education.

Howard

In a message dated 11/22/04 4:16:55 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Dear group.
Hey Guys,

I am here at Sara’s place and it is day 8.

Wonderful experience.To think that I actually almost turned back and went
home.
When I first came over(across the other side of the WORLD),I started to
panic,..Sh t,
This is it”,,I DON’T KNOW IF I can do this.

But Sara was wonderful,I was put at ease,took the Iboga,first dose 1 gram.
A couple of hours later,another 1.8,then a little after that ,say,..2 to
3
hours later
5 grams.Then it really booted in.

I felt as if I was being wobbled, like I had 7 or 8 tribes men, either
side
of me,holding me on a rug,
,they were standing and the rug was a few feet of the floor and they were
wobbling me.

Vibrated,..as if my cells were vibrating with the melody of the
wobbling,roking,uhmmmm  uhmmmmm.

No vomiting. No nausea,…

Risdules,yes  but I tell you ,..NO ORBLEM.up to 15%,but it was not the
same
sick energy,

It seems to flow,up down,up down,relaxed

EGO,is not a,dirty word.
Ego is not dirty   dirty word.

WoW you really have to let it Go.
I tell you what?my ego was very strong.

I feel mentally exhausted.

I will right again. Saras cooking breakfeast for me,
Downstairsgo
um, Gotta go.

Smiles Jasen         🙂

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:28:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is very reliable with Sara.
Sara seems to be in tune with the Iboga and the patient.
If you put your trust in Sara you will succeed…..
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Howard,
Is the Indra product reliable? Otherwise, where would one find the HCL?
Thanking you…

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2004 3:58 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

For list information, Jasen is talking about doses of ibogaine extract
somewhat similar to the indra product and not ibogaine HCl.  It also appears
to me
that Sara is the only provider who approaches the use of iboga/ibogaine with
no
set time limitations to patient care on a continuous dose regimen basis.
Those of you who provide ibogaine know who overwhelming the time issue can
be.
It is too bad that some government will not provide a medical facility and
support so ibogaine providers from around the world could demonstrate their
particular techniques and dose regimens for comparative evaluation and
mutual
education.

Howard

In a message dated 11/22/04 4:16:55 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Dear group.
Hey Guys,

I am here at Sara’s place and it is day 8.

Wonderful experience.To think that I actually almost turned back and went
home.
When I first came over(across the other side of the WORLD),I started to
panic,..Sh t,
This is it”,,I DON’T KNOW IF I can do this.

But Sara was wonderful,I was put at ease,took the Iboga,first dose 1 gram.
A couple of hours later,another 1.8,then a little after that ,say,..2 to
3
hours later
5 grams.Then it really booted in.

I felt as if I was being wobbled, like I had 7 or 8 tribes men, either
side
of me,holding me on a rug,
,they were standing and the rug was a few feet of the floor and they were
wobbling me.

Vibrated,..as if my cells were vibrating with the melody of the
wobbling,roking,uhmmmm  uhmmmmm.

No vomiting. No nausea,…

Risdules,yes  but I tell you ,..NO ORBLEM.up to 15%,but it was not the
same
sick energy,

It seems to flow,up down,up down,relaxed

EGO,is not a,dirty word.
Ego is not dirty   dirty word.

WoW you really have to let it Go.
I tell you what?my ego was very strong.

I feel mentally exhausted.

I will right again. Saras cooking breakfeast for me,
Downstairsgo
um, Gotta go.

Smiles Jasen         🙂

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:23:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

already absorbed.
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

love your way Jasen.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:16 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Dear group.
Hey Guys,

I am here at Sara’s place and it is day 8.

Wonderful experience.To think that I actually almost turned back and went home.
When I first came over(across the other side of the WORLD),I started to panic,..Sh t,
This is it”,,I DON’T KNOW IF I can do this.

But Sara was wonderful,I was put at ease,took the Iboga,first dose 1 gram.
A couple of hours later,another 1.8,then a little after that ,say,..2 to 3 hours later
5 grams.Then it really booted in.

I felt as if I was being wobbled, like I had 7 or 8 tribes men, either side of me,holding me on a rug,
,they were standing and the rug was a few feet of the floor and they were wobbling me.

Vibrated,..as if my cells were vibrating with the melody of the wobbling,roking,uhmmmm  uhmmmmm.

No vomiting. No nausea,…

Risdules,yes  but I tell you ,..NO ORBLEM.up to 15%,but it was not the same sick energy,

It seems to flow,up down,up down,relaxed

EGO,is not a,dirty word.
Ego is not dirty   dirty word.

WoW you really have to let it Go.
I tell you what?my ego was very strong.

I feel mentally exhausted.

I will right again. Saras cooking breakfeast for me,
Downstairsgo
um, Gotta go.

Smiles Jasen         J

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:10:47 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You heal people with your raw honesty Preston.
Both you and Sara are healing people.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Sorry about that Preston,

“plus is safer and less addictive”.that why…

It is not less addictive but non- addictive.
It is proven not to be addictive.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 15:30
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

I’m not sure who you are responding to Sara, and I think that once again
that language barrier thing has confused the message I wrote.
My described turmoil hasn’t anything to do with my or anyone else’s
cannabis use. My initial problem in this note was with my use and addiction
to cigarettes, then I moved on to my serious, severe current, reoccuring
issue with banging my drugs again, not to be too open about it on a public
list or anything.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

“What is happening is that the government is using a
condition they created out of thin air, non-existent,
called “addiction”, to justify its fascistic
prohibitionist actions to the world in an attempt to
demonize and stigmatise cannabis consumers.  Ask your
neighborhood fascist what the “symptoms” of addiction
are.  He either won’t be able to tell you, or he’ll
tell you some nonesense which is a blow by blow
repetition of prohibitionist propaganda statements
found on their advertising.  This is to scare ignorant
non-consumers of cannabis into supporting the
fascistic and illegal crushing of democratic rights of
cannabis consumers.
You know damned well that not using cannabis has
no “withdrawal” symptoms.  Its no different from
stopping the consumption of ice cream, or broccoli, or
any other food, except you are not getting a buzz,
which people who DO know about cannabis know full well
is just harmless fun, and hurts nobody.
So stop playing the innocent.  Those folks you
complain about are trying to murder and torture you
for purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with
your health, safety, welfare, or anyone else’s.  Quit
playing their game, and get on with the reality of
cannabis consumption and the law.  We are all being
preyed on by evil fascist murderers, and we need to
start defending ourselves.”

From my friend…

Greetings crookedeye,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 4:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

Thanks for the suggestion, but being a fond lover of smoking herb with or
without cigarettes, and having actually tried that before to no avail, I’m
afraid that ain’t gonna cut it either.
I’ve also tried substuting clove cigs for tobacco, but that really, really
didn’t cut it either.
It’s been quite some time I’ve been discussing this here, and it sounds
the
same as always, like I’m a weak ass git who can’t find self-control.
Sorry, I’m feeling a bit off-balance and angry at myself for this and
that reason. I can’t seem to find it in myself to open up much about it
(having tried a number of time to do so here but ending up deleting the
message before hitting send), finding myself embarrassed and hateful and
sad, but this is about as far as I feel like taking it publicly. Suffice
it
to say, I’m going to take ibogaine again at some point, as I believe I’ve
recently noted, but wonder- will this, as with every other freakin’
fucking
“treatment” I’ve ever tried turn into one of these stupid, “oh well,
nuther
failed effort” things? Am I weak? Or am I simply supposed to be taking my
drugs in the most effective manner possible and should just tell the rest
of

the world to fuck the hell off? I mean, I seem to be doing fairly well for
the most part, other than for this irritating, complicating love of drug
effects, foreign molecules, and other socially unacceptable things and
behaviors. And even with those I’m doing fairly well, besides having to
deal

with the complications of trying to do my substances in the way I find
most
effective without feeling too guilty and fucked up about it- and worst of
all, finding myself hiding it from the people I care most about in the
entire world because, well, most of you (with some possible exceptions who
will remain unnamed by me for now) understand what I’m talking about and
where I’m coming from.
Anyway, love to you all.
(How can life suck so bad at the same time things are going so fucking
well?)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

I found that when I get the urge to smoke a cig, I just fire up some ganja
instead and it relieves the urge, plus is safer and less addictive,
physically.  I only want a cigarette when I don’t have herb to smoke.
Maybe herb could help…

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:06:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I haven’t been here long, but most on this list seem
supportive…sometimes strangers are the best ones to let it all out to.  I
hope we or someone can help you put it all in perspective.  When it’s all in
your own head, it seems impossible.  When you let it out and get feedback,
it doesn’t fix everything, but it doesn’t seem near as bad.
Hang in there, or go get some prof help if you can. I don’t know what you
have over there…….I guess I’ve been lucky with the drug counsellor I
got, she’s into a lot of things I am, herbal, spiritual etc so we get on
great.  I still don’t like myself much, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it
was a couple of months ago.
With much love
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 6:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s

Hi Hannah,

Well, at least you have the list to write to and a dog to keep you centered.

There are some people who don’t have a list or a dog. I’m just not in a
talkative mood now but, I am certain some of the list will give you a boost.

Warmest regards for the holidays and the new year.  Sometimes things happen
for the
best.  Don’t let it get you down.

Howard

In a message dated 12/13/04 11:09:49 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am
I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?
A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t
play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.
So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the
thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.
Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these
situations.
Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.
He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be
single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last
week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one
week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that
he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t
believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks
and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want
people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just
wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone
(and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)
He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose
toegther
where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust
come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never
realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make
it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally
differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such
an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see
anyone,
I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home
to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.
But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this
was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying
to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing
I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll
help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I
can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.
I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in
myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him
back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling
it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.
Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs
feeding
and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves
the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.
I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though
i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m
so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but
stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But
as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone
instead
of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be
a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out
my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta
buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you
go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse
for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking
risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me
thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear
now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s
only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such
shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.
I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he
was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved
me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say
something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.
I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.
I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love
to everyone, Hannah x

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 12:27:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Well, at least you have the list to write to and a dog to keep you centered.
There are some people who don’t have a list or a dog. I’m just not in a
talkative mood now but, I am certain some of the list will give you a boost.
Warmest regards for the holidays and the new year.  Sometimes things happen for the
best.  Don’t let it get you down.

Howard

In a message dated 12/13/04 11:09:49 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am
I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?
A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t
play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.
So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the
thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.
Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.
Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.
He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be
single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last
week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one
week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that
he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t
believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks
and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want
people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just
wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone
(and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)
He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther
where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust
come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never
realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make
it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally
differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such
an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone,
I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home
to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.
But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this
was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying
to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing
I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll
help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I
can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.
I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in
myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him
back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling
it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.
Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding
and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves
the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.
I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though
i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m
so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but
stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But
as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead
of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be
a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out
my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta
buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you
go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse
for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking
risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me
thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear
now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s
only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such
shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.
I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he
was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved
me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say
something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.
I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.
I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love
to everyone, Hannah x

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:30:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,

It is good that you are sharing your feelings with others, even the
virtual folk on this list. Lots of people here are rooting for you.

It sounds like your use of heroin helped you miss the signs of your
new ex’s unhappiness with the relationship, and that sheltering
your addicted previous ex provided a reason for you to keep using.
My suggestion is that your ‘helping’ your previous ex only helps
both of you to remain stuck, and that now would be a good time to
separate from him as well.

Also, just because your new ex needs to leave doesn’t mean that his
love was a lie. It sounds like he is just taking care of himself.
People must take care of themselves first, if they want their love
to be strong and healthy enough to build real lives upon.

Lots of warm wishes to you this season and always. Eat well! If the
season seems too lonely, maybe some volunteer work could take you
out of yourself? Give your dog a pet for me.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:14:02 -0800 Hannah Clay
<hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even
smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers
thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I
don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting
drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink
vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want
right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?
Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.
Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before
yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me
Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t
want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on
though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get
myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see
me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he
up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks
and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t

want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see
me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I
don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m

just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m
stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds
me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and
it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never
realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to
make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see
it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him
happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my
bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had

to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk

my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was
gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening
for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get

away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only
thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says
he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m
skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make
himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than
ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped

up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I
just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him
handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try

to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with

my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he
hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the
other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets
so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t

seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go
out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left

but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself
sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I
need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger
from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m
already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see
this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know
I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to
help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and
ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall
asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even

worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I
feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?

That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared
I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I
just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How
pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there
and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I
thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me
going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like
but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he
could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to

say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List
in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t

pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear
Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:06:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, we think alike!!  Must watch the same movies!
But I’ve seen cover ups in my time, so I know it happens.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 3:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

it smells horribly of – and i hate to use the term – a conspiracy.

multiple wounds… well, i suppose w/buckshot there would be multiple
wounds, but if yer shootin yerself you’re so damn close to the barrel
it would look like one big [messy] wound.

shooting yourself 2X in the head with a shotgun, well thats a pretty
amazing feat, cause it ain’t easy shootin yerself with a long barreled
gun. not that i have personel experience, i’ve just seen way too many
movies.

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 03:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

I didn’t write that “shot in the head twice,” Craig Roberts did. I
only drew attention to his and others’ suspicions, (mine included) and
feel that multiple “wounds” is weird, as is a note telling visitors to
call 911 and an abumlance might be needed. If he was killing himself,
why need an ambulance? Someone elsewhere pointed out that’s another
weird thing, and seems awfully staged.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

/
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Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:03:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it smells horribly of – and i hate to use the term – a conspiracy.

multiple wounds… well, i suppose w/buckshot there would be multiple wounds, but if yer shootin yerself you’re so damn close to the barrel it would look like one big [messy] wound.

shooting yourself 2X in the head with a shotgun, well thats a pretty amazing feat, cause it ain’t easy shootin yerself with a long barreled gun. not that i have personel experience, i’ve just seen way too many movies.

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 03:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

I didn’t write that “shot in the head twice,” Craig Roberts did. I only drew attention to his and others’ suspicions, (mine included) and feel that multiple “wounds” is weird, as is a note telling visitors to call 911 and an abumlance might be needed. If he was killing himself, why need an ambulance? Someone elsewhere pointed out that’s another weird thing, and seems awfully staged.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 8:53:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didn’t write that “shot in the head twice,” Craig Roberts did. I only drew attention to his and others’ suspicions, (mine included) and feel that multiple “wounds” is weird, as is a note telling visitors to call 911 and an abumlance might be needed. If he was killing himself, why need an ambulance? Someone elsewhere pointed out that’s another weird thing, and seems awfully staged.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 8:19:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:39:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah, I feel for you.
I’m thinking of you, though I’m sure that can’t help much right now, but it’s true.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single. He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was. He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half. I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title. I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] review of UTI- first one
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:34:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Feel free to forward this if you’d like.
Figures the Canadians would be first on this. Where are my countryfolk? (With the exception of one reader review – thanks Gary btw- on Amazon, they’re not all that eager to write glowing, or not so glowing, reviews for publication, yet.)
😉

http://www.counterbias.com/br011.html

snip-

“This book contains too many reasons for drug legalization and medicalization to list. It has reminded me of the almost lost knowledge of that split second in eternity, all those years ago, that momentarily renewed my hope that life could be something other than just the war torn battlefield it is.”

more at above URL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:25:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My mind went on paranoid as soon as I heard about Gary Webb. He was what freedom was all about. Guys like him kept the suits somewhat on their toes and sooner or later something happens. Be it pressure from above or self imposed, something happens. He is irreplaceable to the cause and will be sadly missed.             Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:07:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Richard Metzger
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:35 PM
Subject: Fwd: Peter Dale Scott

Begin forwarded message:

From: Robert Anton Wilson
Subject: Fwd: Peter Dale Scott

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jesse Walker Date: December 13, 2004 10:04:05 AM PST
To: Subject: Peter Dale Scott

Peter Dale Scott on Webb’s death:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1709370_comment.php#1709462

Begin forwarded message:
From: markoff chan Date: December 12, 2004 10:43:04 PM PST
To: Subject: Re: Another convenient suicide
Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.
Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative
journalist whose star-crossed
career was capped with a controversial newspaper
series linking the
CIA
to the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles,
died Friday of
self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael
home Friday morning of
gunshot wounds to the head, the Sacramento County
Coroner’s Office
said
Saturday.
He left a note, but officials would not disclose
its contents.
The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at (916)
321-1091 or
sstanton@sacbee.com
— JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764 77501-Cancun Q. Roo
Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com/portfolio
Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/blog
NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft,
Inc.
http://www.lsoft.com
olga666@rattlebrain.com
http://www.frogboy.freeuk.com/illuminatus.html
http://www.gunsanddope.com/
http://www.rawilson.com/
http://www.maybelogic.com/
http://www.maybelogic.org/
http://raw23.home.comcast.net/
http://www.alphane.com/raw.htm
http://www.deoxy.org/learyraw.htm
a midi pommes bleues
“I” am also a “You.”
–Alan Watts
NON ILLUMINATI CARBORUNDUM
=====
“You should view the world as a conspiracy run by a very closely-knit
group of nearly omnipotent people, and you should think of those people
as yourself and your friends.” –Robert Anton Wilson
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a midi pommes bleues
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NON ILLUMINATI CARBORUNDUM

olga666@rattlebrain.com
http://www.frogboy.freeuk.com/illuminatus.html
http://www.gunsanddope.com/
http://www.rawilson.com/
http://www.maybelogic.com/
http://www.maybelogic.org/
http://raw23.home.comcast.net/
http://www.alphane.com/raw.htm
http://www.deoxy.org/learyraw.htm
a midi pommes bleues

“I” am also a “You.”
–Alan Watts

NON ILLUMINATI CARBORUNDUM

Richard Metzger
The Disinformation Company Ltd.
207 West 25th St. 4th floor
New York, NY 10001
212 691 1605
http://www.disinfo.com

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.capt. kirk
Date: December 13, 2004 at 6:31:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron can take onr day out of his life to see a doc and get started on his “slow taper”. months have gone b y and situation unchanged.

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] out of topic War ?/!
Date: December 13, 2004 at 6:17:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list !

I have a feeling of ” deja vu”

An interview :

“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”
— Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 13, 2004 at 5:52:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FP,

Yep, addiction is hell.  And I understand EXACTLY what you say and mean.  I told a friend of mine don’t take Ibo for the fun of it, it kind of kicks your ass.  The visions are the most bizzar of anything.  For me the hard part was the restlessness and trouble sleeping.  But I know of nothing better.  It seemed for me I could stay clean for maybe 4 days then the cravings would come on and it was over, I would give in to them.  30 days is pretty good, just keep away from people who would tempt you to use and you got the best chance that you have had in years.

I am wishing you all the luck, have a nice holliday good friend.

– JIM

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Jim,
I’m still clean and yes It’s hard to stay clean. But addiction is (as you said) hell I’m not 100 % yet but day by day I’m going better. Iboga realy strange kind of thing that wich is made me ready for quite addiction. I’m clean for almost one month and most important thing is I have no desire to oppiates. I suppose Iboga still acting on me in spite of so many times passed after I took Iboga. This is so weird for me. I tried quite addiction for many before Iboga for times but Oppiates was always in my brain, in my soul. But this time Iboga changed everything. Yes Iboga treatment is not a piece of cake. It’s very hard but I think there is no other way for me.

Wormest Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:08 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand

HI FP,

I am glad to hear you doing good, I don’t have that much time or energy for the forum, I got over 500 letters to read and I can’t read them all.  Don’t worry about your language skills, you come from another country and might not be the greatest writer using English.  But, we are not judging you on your English or spelling.  In fact I think most people on this forum do not judge people at all.  We understand what you are saying, your ideas and point of view or where your’re coming from which is far more important than how you spelled a word or if you used an incorrect word.

I said a few prayers for you asking that you get what you want and that the ibo would work.  Yes, addiction is a hell of a problem, I hope that you can stay clean.  Write me when you get a chance and let me know how your doing.  It is always nice to hear from you.

As always I wish you the best and hope you have a nice Christmas and New Years.

– JIM

__________________________________________________
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 13, 2004 at 3:37:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:45:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of our (well, Jeff’s) treatment angels has one of
my best books on this topic out in the ethers.  But
I’ll add a nuance to what you seem upset about,
Preston.

There are several different branches of the Native
American Church, and I believe their extremely hard
won legal standing relies on sovereignity rights —
like civil (citizenship) rights but that predate the
existence of the U.S. state, and are sovereign to the
indigenous peoples — rather than free expression of
religion.  Its an importantly subtle distinction.

The N.A.C. — which is only a certain branch of the
larger practice of Peyote Religion — has opposed lots
of “piggyback” organizations, and I think the
peyoteros started having serious problems in the later
60s when “a bunch of hippies” started showing up in
the Texas desert, “ruining” certain ancient fields and
drawing legal attention to the racialization issues
around defining some folks as “native” blooded and
thus legally protected, compared to others.  Its
tricky, controversial subject in Indian Country, as
the spread of Peyote out of the Sonora into the plains
and mountains further Norte travelled along with some
of the same forces of adapting to colonization.  I
perceive a lot of ethnological similarities in the
spread of the Bwiti sects.

This is what’s so complicated about the border.  The
indios of Mexico and southward from La Frontera are,
obviously, also Native Peoples’ with indigenous claims
to their culture.  But its not recognized by the U.S.
government.

Whose “Homeland” is this place, anyway?

– rachel

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:40:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:14:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m surprised this didn’t “happen” sooner.

a loss for sure.

On Sunday, December 12, 2004, at 06:33 PM, Capt Kirk wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

Are they sure he didn’t get too close to something?  I’m into conspiracy
theories!!
Sad to lose these kind of people.
Well, sad to lose anyone really… specially taking their own life
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 11:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on the

forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like
saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most
inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own
picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a
candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,” Dresslar
said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the
allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:14:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re: comments about Webb FROM Cele, not BY Cele
Date: December 13, 2004 at 1:49:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh great, I just heard from Cele, and he did NOT write the message about Gary Webb’s death I just posted, although he sent it to me saying “please post.” Silly me, I though he’d written it since he was asking me to post it.
He thinks it was Mike Ruppert but is unsure. It’s kinda weird, I know, sending out messages when we don’t know who actually wrote them and urging people to post them (not everyone understands that writing it a product of work and therefore people want credit for said work, not to mention that whole “it’s not mine, it’s someone else’s” thing). So, I apologize for posting it and giving Cele credit for writing it, and if anyone can tell me if it was Ruppert or if not who did write it I’d be very happy. Thanks.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

original note excerpt >Gary Webb, Pulitzer Prize winner, died this weekend in what was pretty clearly a suicide. Even if he pulled the trigger of the shotgun that killed him, he was still a victim punished unjustly for his pursuit of the truth.

It is clear that anyone who has dared to speak out about the CIA and the drug traffic has risked losing his job. In like fashion Celerino Castillo was eased out of DEA, and Robert Parry lost his job at AP. When Gary was absurdly abused by a pack of attack dogs at the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post, Gary’s editors at the San Jose Mercury-Tribune failed to stand by him; and in the end virtually they forced him off the paper by reassigning him to a trivial suburban post.<

Was this by Ruppert, or who? Anyone know?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Celerino Castillo on Gary Webb
Date: December 13, 2004 at 1:13:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Celerino Castillo sent me the following this morning. For those unaware, Castillo was the lead (and only) DEA agent on the ground in El Salvador during the Contra supply efforts in the 80s that were happening all around the region and neighboring countries, including at the Illogango airbase (see my oft posted here article at: http://www.drugwar.com/pcatchintel.shtm, or my article about Oliver North Still in Denial in Under the Influence for that matter for much more on this topic), where Felix Rodriguez and Oliver North and others too were busy supplying the Contras and helping run tons of drugs and weaponry and commit murder and steal and lie and cheat and start wars and other neato endevours. Castillo reported the ongoings on at Illopango to his superiors as well as to George Bush I himself, only to be shoved out of the way and charged with misdeeds and such. Such is the way often for those who step on big people’s toes. Big people don’t like that very much at all and often make life hell for those who do step on their toes, like Webb and Castillo here, among others.
Peace and love,
Preston
—–
Comments by Celerino Castillo

Gary Webb, Pulitzer Prize winner, died this weekend in what was pretty clearly a suicide. Even if he pulled the trigger of the shotgun that killed him, he was still a victim punished unjustly for his pursuit of the truth.

It is clear that anyone who has dared to speak out about the CIA and the drug traffic has risked losing his job. In like fashion Celerino Castillo was eased out of DEA, and Robert Parry lost his job at AP. When Gary was absurdly abused by a pack of attack dogs at the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post, Gary’s editors at the San Jose Mercury-Tribune failed to stand by him; and in the end virtually they forced him off the paper by reassigning him to a trivial suburban post.

The guilty consciences of the major newspapers is reflected now in the demeaning obituaries they have written about him. Gary’s treatment of the CIA-drug story was not flawless; no one’s is or can be. But he deserved far better than he got; and it is the other journalists who attacked him who should now hang their heads in shame.

It is difficult to be the victim of injustice, and not become obsessed by it. As someone else has observed of this tragedy, it is important that we resist the changes imposed on us by the world, by responding instead to the truth that is within us.

For those of us who have had the luck to survive in this struggle while others have died, some of them murdered, our response must be to carry on.
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 1:09:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI NICK

Thank you for sending me that info about treatment using ibogaine, i will do some research for myself and keep you posted.

once again thanks

donna

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 12:39:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

slowone wrote >I understand from what I’ve seen on the net that the Native
American Church opposed extension of the principle that covers
their use of peyote to this case, and that both the UDV and the
U.S. government view the UDV case as unrelated to the religious use
of ayahuasca by Santo Daime (another Brasilian church).<

If true, how sad. (Good point on the temporary status of the stay though, as noted in your note below, thanks for pointing that out.)Descrimination continues even amongst the supposedly openminded and free spirited. Why is it we do things like this to one another? This is the most basic root of the war on some drugs and users to get right down to it and after profits and power issues are considered. The whole “those people are different and taking substances that I don’t understand/want/know/ and I’m afraid of them and their stuff and their state of mind, since I haven’t experienced it and don’t want to because it’s foreign/unknown/different/strange and etc, etc, blahbiddy blahbiddy blah” even extends to some of us who should know better, but apparently don’t.     Is it possible the Native Amerian users of peyote feel that linking the ayahusaca case to the precedent set by their own case might bring unwanted attention on them, and possibly risk their legal status? I hope that’s the case because otherwise I’m going to be really depressed to find out this is true and they oppose using their case as precedent in the ayahusca case. What could the possible reason be for UDV to descriminate against Santo Damie besides sheer prejudice?
Is it possible the Native American users of peyote feel that linking the ayahuasca case to the precedent set by their own case might bring unwanted attention on them, and possibly risk their legal status? I hope that’s the case because otherwise I’m going to be really depressed to find out this is true and they oppose using their case as precedent in the ayahuasca case.
And even if it is just for one church in Arizona, if they win I would imagine that others could then use the case to argue their own religious use ayahuasca, even though they’ll probably have to go through the court system to do so, i.e. have to get themselves arrested first, even if the Arizona church does get to continue using their sacrament after this brief stay order by the SCOTUS. If one church can use it, others can also, after of course “proving” their religious use is “legitimate,” and controlled use in a safe setting isn’t always a bad thing I would think- I’m not too into the idea of taking psychedelics in lab settings for tests and such, as that I imagine could turn into a horrific nightmare of a trip to someone of my mindframe, not enjoying medical settings at all. I also don’t think I’d personally enjoy the regimentation imposed by someone else on my trip, even in a church setting, although I would like to try participating in one of these services someday. That would be interesting but for now I don’t think I’d want to join any church no matter what their sacrament- but never say never, right?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

This story (as quoted) is misleading – the supreme court only
allowed use of the tea during the time they decide the case, i.e.
they only put aside the stay that Breyer had put in place. In any
case, this case is about religious use in controlled circumstances
by one church.

I understand from what I’ve seen on the net that the Native
American Church opposed extension of the principle that covers
their use of peyote to this case, and that both the UDV and the
U.S. government view the UDV case as unrelated to the religious use
of ayahuasca by Santo Daime (another Brasilian church).

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:03:48 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.<

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10387740.htm

Allows N.M. Church to Use Tea
MARY PEREA

Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that a New

Mexico
church has the right to use a hallucinogenic tea in its services,
rejecting
a government argument that the tea is illegal and potentially
dangerous.
The ruling brings to a close a long-running legal fight between
federal
officials and the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente
Uniao do
Vegetal over the church’s use of hoasca tea, brewed from plants
found in the
Amazon River Basin.
The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of
the tea in
a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church’s U.S. president,
Jeffrey
Bronfman. Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the
tea and the
church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S.

Circuit
Court of Appeals in Denver.
The government took the case to the Supreme Court, where Justice
Stephen
Breyer last week granted a temporary stay to give both sides time
to file
more arguments. The full court lifted the stay Friday and ruled in

favor of
the church.
“They’re delighted,” attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church
members she
represented. “They’re so thrilled that they can celebrate
Christmas for the
first time since 1998.”
Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately
return calls
seeking comment.
snip-
I think this just came through here the other day actually, but
I’m
reposting it for your elucidation.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are
saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do
you know if
it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health
food store
or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the
reply to
stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is
hard
sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus
and
sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you
don’t have
the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a
brief
description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:46:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Donna,

I have been taking ibogaine & eboga for the past 6 years and have used it intensively for dealing with childhood abuse as opposed to drug addiction. The list is full of people who have either taken it for addiction or are in recovery. I am sure any number will be happy to give you their opinion in this regard.

I work with eboga/ibogaine from a pychological/spiritual viewpoint for healing the person on all levels. You can check out my site which deals with my work: www.my-eboga.com, if you wish.

I have also wrote a book after 6 years use of ibogaine and you can read some chapters & reviews on this link www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html. You might find this particular link useful to read:

www.my-eboga.com/forelee.html

If you have any questions after reading here please feel free to post.

I should point out that my view encompasses the relationship of the ego to the soul and the emotional body and works from the premise that spirit entities are working through eboga to help us – as that is my direct experience.

What I write is a reality for me and it works.

The proof of the pudding ….

Love & Light

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hey Donna,

I’m also in the UK, Dorset, and run a website on ibogaine. There are at least a couple of people in the UK that you can check out for getting treatment off. Both are listed at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm , they’re Hattie and Ward. It’s good to read the max about the drug before taking it to be sure that you understand what it is and what it does and does not offer. If you want to chat privately I can mail you my mobile number, no problem. Let me know.

All the best

Nick Sandberg   www.ibogaine.co.uk
—–Original Message—–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]
Sent: 13 December 2004 12:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NA tribes and serotonine
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:17:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why NA and AA  builder of serotonine ?
From  a study of Gogek, E, B ” the dry drunk syndrome” Subtype of depression .
American Journal of Psychiatry,151 ( 1994 ) 947 – 48.

I could’t read rhe entire research available at the PubMed site  but basicly, here you have a short version from
Ronal Ruden MD PHD in his book ” the craving brain”

Attending AA can raise serotonine. As Gogek describes, the lay term ” dry drunk ” refers to the dysphoria expreienced by an individual who has stopped drinking. the symptoms reported include feeling deeply depressed, feeling very tired, agitated phisical activity, poor concentration, hopelessness and thought of suicide. Involvment in AA appaered to allievate many of theses symptoms.

we have described this dysphoria as low- dopamine low-serotonine landscape. The ability to raise serotonine by arttendance to AA maybee similar to the effect of the drug Prozac have on the tonic dopamine landscape. Like prozac, alcoholics anonymous must be abble to raise both dopamine and serotonin to explain the observed effect

SNIP>snip<
IMHO This will explains maybee why  the old timers keep saying :
Go to meeting .
30*30 . stick with the winner. Meeting makers make it.


Being a member of AA or NA accomplishes this. When a pattern stimulates the craving for alcohol ( or drugs ), the nucleus accubens releases dopamine. Thoses who have ” worked the program can produced a conditioned response to the craving.
AA (NA) uses the primal surival system to raise serotonin. It is throught the feeling of fellowship ( herd ) and safety ( wich is why is anonymous ) that this is accomplished ”
Page91 the craving brain

I have no personal interest in promoting AA or AA but seriously ,why,  from the Idea of two drunks we have actualy more than 150 000 club house ( only for AA ) not counting Overeaters, gamblers and NA  covering all the world ? This  was achieved in 60 years !!

God Bless
Francis

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:06:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: jimhadey3@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

Ayahuasca is the name of a vine that grows in the Amazon, and also
of a brew made with it and a DMT-containing plant (Psychotria
viridis).
The vine contains harmala alkaloids, which allow the DMT to pass
into the blood and thence to the brain, which also has its own
natural supply of DMT. Additionally, since the harmala alkaloids
are reversible monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), they have a
mild antidepressant effect, and the vine alone is considered a
teacher.

There are other sources of harmala alkaloids and DMT, for example
the European-origin Peganum harmala seed and Mimosa hostilis
rootbark. Such analogs are sometimes referred to as synthahuasca
and the practitioners as analogueros, after ‘ayahuasceros’. The
vine is generally considered a deeper teacher than P. harmala, but
requires some work to extract and is more expensive. Overall I
consider it a gentler cousin of iboga, the most similar to it of
the entheogens.

All the ingredients are available online. The MAOIs are legal in
the US, while DMT-containing are not. So far there have been two
publicity-receiving cases brought against alleged importers of DMT-
containing plants.

Here is a link where you can find out more, also see the material
at erowid.

http://www.yage.net/ayahuasca/

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:20:42 -0800 Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do
you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it,
from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the
reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For

it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the
hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the
letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.

Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to
take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view

to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t

know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough

good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate
Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 10:45:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This story (as quoted) is misleading – the supreme court only
allowed use of the tea during the time they decide the case, i.e.
they only put aside the stay that Breyer had put in place. In any
case, this case is about religious use in controlled circumstances
by one church.

I understand from what I’ve seen on the net that the Native
American Church opposed extension of the principle that covers
their use of peyote to this case, and that both the UDV and the
U.S. government view the UDV case as unrelated to the religious use
of ayahuasca by Santo Daime (another Brasilian church).

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:03:48 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.<

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10387740.htm

Allows N.M. Church to Use Tea
MARY PEREA

Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that a New

Mexico
church has the right to use a hallucinogenic tea in its services,
rejecting
a government argument that the tea is illegal and potentially
dangerous.
The ruling brings to a close a long-running legal fight between
federal
officials and the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente
Uniao do
Vegetal over the church’s use of hoasca tea, brewed from plants
found in the
Amazon River Basin.
The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of
the tea in
a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church’s U.S. president,
Jeffrey
Bronfman. Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the
tea and the
church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S.

Circuit
Court of Appeals in Denver.
The government took the case to the Supreme Court, where Justice
Stephen
Breyer last week granted a temporary stay to give both sides time
to file
more arguments. The full court lifted the stay Friday and ruled in

favor of
the church.
“They’re delighted,” attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church
members she
represented. “They’re so thrilled that they can celebrate
Christmas for the
first time since 1998.”
Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately
return calls
seeking comment.
snip-
I think this just came through here the other day actually, but
I’m
reposting it for your elucidation.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are
saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do
you know if
it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health
food store
or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the
reply to
stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is
hard
sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus
and
sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you
don’t have
the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a
brief
description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:42:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Donna,

I’m also in the UK, Dorset, and run a website on ibogaine. There are at least a couple of people in the UK that you can check out for getting treatment off. Both are listed at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm , they’re Hattie and Ward. It’s good to read the max about the drug before taking it to be sure that you understand what it is and what it does and does not offer. If you want to chat privately I can mail you my mobile number, no problem. Let me know.

All the best

Nick Sandberg   www.ibogaine.co.uk
—–Original Message—–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]
Sent: 13 December 2004 12:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.capt. kirk
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:28:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it’s been a gut wrenching dilemma.  i’m standing down for a time on the list.  it’s not about me and i’ve wasted a lot of peoples’ positive energy whining. i hope to one day celebrate and contribute something meaningful. thanks
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:26:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You said:
yes Iboga treatment is not a piece of cake. It’s very hard but I think there is no other way for me.

Wormest Regards
FakePlacebo
I reply
yes yes yes it is a long road i am 5weeks out form a ten year methadone habit (80 then down to 50 mgs) and it has been a slow road I wasn’t prepared for really how raw I was going to be post treatment but as bad as i felt it wasn’t in the same league (almost) as true kicking ass withdrawals I went in three days from addicted to not i am still amazed
everyday is not better BUT every FEW days are better and that is what i hold onto. This past week has shown some real improvement i even cut out most of my many baths i have been taking  they do help relieve some of the bone ache.
I am seeing a psych on Tuesday and for the first time it feels like the thing for me I have  always been averse to it.
i have giving up my movie( cable TV habit . I don’t feel like anything on TV can mean much . I have replaced it with a great passin for musical appreciation Tho Rachel is getting tired of my repitoir!
Things have been good the full on ibo rush i was experiencing is subsiding and i am very much looking forward to another visit to the jungle.But my brain is still zoom zooming at times which i dig big time! i am hoping my next treatment will be more insightful.
I have been phoning folks as well which is something i never do. i feel somehow more connected to people now and something else some ancient thing mmmmm…
so thats it  i wanted to check in  and say hi and thankyou to everyone who sent good wishes and anyone else.
Freak Freely!
Jeff

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 8:03:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.<

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10387740.htm

Allows N.M. Church to Use Tea
MARY PEREA

Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that a New Mexico church has the right to use a hallucinogenic tea in its services, rejecting a government argument that the tea is illegal and potentially dangerous.
The ruling brings to a close a long-running legal fight between federal officials and the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal over the church’s use of hoasca tea, brewed from plants found in the Amazon River Basin.
The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of the tea in a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church’s U.S. president, Jeffrey Bronfman. Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the tea and the church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.
The government took the case to the Supreme Court, where Justice Stephen Breyer last week granted a temporary stay to give both sides time to file more arguments. The full court lifted the stay Friday and ruled in favor of the church.
“They’re delighted,” attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church members she represented. “They’re so thrilled that they can celebrate Christmas for the first time since 1998.”
Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately return calls seeking comment.
snip-
I think this just came through here the other day actually, but I’m reposting it for your elucidation.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:40:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 13, 2004 at 6:34:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jim,
I’m still clean and yes It’s hard to stay clean. But addiction is (as you said) hell I’m not 100 % yet but day by day I’m going better. Iboga realy strange kind of thing that wich is made me ready for quite addiction. I’m clean for almost one month and most important thing is I have no desire to oppiates. I suppose Iboga still acting on me in spite of so many times passed after I took Iboga. This is so weird for me. I tried quite addiction for many before Iboga for times but Oppiates was always in my brain, in my soul. But this time Iboga changed everything. Yes Iboga treatment is not a piece of cake. It’s very hard but I think there is no other way for me.

Wormest Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:08 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand

HI FP,

I am glad to hear you doing good, I don’t have that much time or energy for the forum, I got over 500 letters to read and I can’t read them all.  Don’t worry about your language skills, you come from another country and might not be the greatest writer using English.  But, we are not judging you on your English or spelling.  In fact I think most people on this forum do not judge people at all.  We understand what you are saying, your ideas and point of view or where your’re coming from which is far more important than how you spelled a word or if you used an incorrect word.

I said a few prayers for you asking that you get what you want and that the ibo would work.  Yes, addiction is a hell of a problem, I hope that you can stay clean.  Write me when you get a chance and let me know how your doing.  It is always nice to hear from you.

As always I wish you the best and hope you have a nice Christmas and New Years.

– JIM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 5:49:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Donna,

If you are refering to Ron he has not gone through treatment yet.

Also, there is another very competent and knowledgeable provider names Karl Naeher based near Paris I believe. He has a web site called www.ibogainetreatment.com and is more than capable of helping you. He is also a chiropractor, rolfer, acupunturist … and complements his treatment with these modalities.

It does work but I strongly advise you consider whether its possible to stay off with a partner who is not willing to stay off (?) as the basic problems which led you to Heroin will act to lead you back within 3 months unless you are on top of the situation with follow up work.

Good luck.

Lee

AbbotAngel@aol.com wrote:
Hi did the treatment not help you at all???? I was researching ibogaine to use as treatment for heroin addiction.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 13, 2004 at 5:12:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi did the treatment not help you at all???? I was researching ibogaine to use as treatment for heroin addiction.

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] having a Ibo provider….
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

Lovely thought, but not always possible.  I will be trying in the next few months to find someone, but if that’s not possible, I;m going to have to find the person who’s going to work with me on doing this safely and properly.
Oh to have trained Egoba’s in every city!!! (Did I say Egoba? LOL)
Kirk J
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 8:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

Donna, self-administering ibogaine is NOT a good idea.

You should really really really [REALLY] have someone present who is experienced in these matters.

_.dh
You don’t have to do this by yourself.  Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:05:42 AM Pacific/Honolulu
To: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: ibogaine


Hi
 
I have recently been researching ibogaine to self administer for heroin addiction would you have any info that could help i would be really grateful
 
 
donna



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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

Are they sure he didn’t get too close to something?  I’m into conspiracy
theories!!
Sad to lose these kind of people.
Well, sad to lose anyone really… specially taking their own life
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 11:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on the

forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like
saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most
inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own
picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a
candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,” Dresslar
said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the
allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] getting clean with a partner still using… donna…
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

Hi Donna.
I don’t want to stick my nose in here, but I have to say it’s pretty much impossible to give up the drugs if your partner isn’t going to.  Took me several successful (at the time) detoxs to learn this.  I had to leave him.  It was NOT easy… specially with my daughter, who had grown to love him.  HARD HARD!!
Anyway, you’ll do what you’ll do…. But  you will need to consider this.   Does he want to get clean too>
Kirk
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 8:46 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a bit about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came off using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia to watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!  got back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found out and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately dont wat to be.

donna

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] reason for bad teeth….
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Sunday, 12 December 2004 4:10 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

There;s a number of reasons for bad teeth, I have a sis a year older than me, perfect teeth, 40 and no fillings. Me, gaps everywhere, fillings galore and in the process of fixing em up best we can.  Also, enamel worn off on front teeth.
Possible reason for my teeth is having a virus around age 4 while my second teeth were developing, and apparently any kind of virus at that age can have a detrimental effect on second teeth.
Wouldn’t it be great to suss out shark DNA?  They have numerous sets of teeth during their lifetime.
Two just aint enough anymore.
Here’s to gappy becoming fashionable!~
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2004 11:21 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:39:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He was a great man and a great teacher.Amazing. I just talked with my son in
BU about him
God Bless

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on
the
forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like
saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most
inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own
picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read
this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a
candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,”
Dresslar
said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the
allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NA AA serotonine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:23:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why NA and AA  builder of serotonine ?
From  a study of Gogek, E, B ” the dry drunk syndrome” Subtype of depression .
American Journal of Psychiatry,151 ( 1994 ) 947 – 48.

I could’t read rhe entire research available at the PubMed site  but basicly, here you have a short version from
Ronal Ruden MD PHD in his book ” the craving brain”

Attending AA can raise serotonine. As Gogek describes, the lay term ” dry drunk ” refers to the dysphoria expreienced by an individual who has stopped drinking. the symptoms reported include feeling deeply depressed, feeling very tired, agitated phisical activity, poor concentration, hopelessness and thought of suicide. Involvment in AA appaered to allievate many of theses symptoms.

we have described this dysphoria as low- dopamine low-serotonine landscape. The ability to raise serotonine by arttendance to AA maybee similar to the effect of the drug Prozac have on the tonic dopamine landscape. Like prozac, alcoholics anonymous must be abble to raise both dopamine and serotonin to explain the observed effect

SNIP>snip<
IMHO This will explains maybee why  the old timers keep saying :
Go to meeting .
30*30 . stick with the winner. Meeting makers make it.


Being a member of AA or NA accomplishes this. When a pattern stimulates the craving for alcohol ( or drugs ), the nucleus accubens releases dopamine. Thoses who have ” worked the program can produced a conditioned response to the craving.
AA (NA) uses the primal surival system to raise serotonin. It is throught the feeling of fellowship ( herd ) and safety ( wich is why is anonymous ) that this is accomplished ”
Page91 the craving brain

I have no personal interest in promoting AA or AA but seriously why from the Idea of two drunks we have actualy more than 150 000 club house ( only for AA ) not counting Overeaters, gamblers and NA  covering all the world ? This  was achieved in 60 years !!
I didn’t realy to write the next sntence. I am afraid I will start a flame. Please dont shoot the messager !! But  anyway, can’t be bad comes from the heart and I my curious ::

Here you go :

I am sure some  of you are thinking : why can’t we do the same thing with Ibogaine ?/! And help more than 200 millions of people our are stuck in addiction ? What’ s stop us ? If it’s work it’s work !!
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
> But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
>Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
>of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
>it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

>One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
>stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
>think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:06:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/12/04 2:53:09 PM, AbbotAngel@aol.com writes:

<< I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a  bit
about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came
off
using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although
my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to

low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia
to  watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non
exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!
got
back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found
out
and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately
dont wat to be. >>

Check out http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:01:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kamlet can be reached at kamletmd@aol.com . he is pres. elect of Florida society of addictionmedicine and has given Ibo to many hundreds with and without Mash. That is where I found his info and heard him lecture in California

He knows his stuff and lectures all over the place. He ran an ER for 10 rears and can handle what ever problems might come up besides being a addictionologist and an over 10 year clean junkie.

He is an independant. although he works with Mash. Mash is Mash and Kamlet is Kamlet.

I respect Mash as I respect Sara and Howard and Millendi and all those who try to help.

Would it not be great if they all would work together. Medical science ego’s must be huge/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:57:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/12/04 2:52:49 PM, AbbotAngel@aol.com writes:

<< HI thanks for getting back to me could i have someone i know there to help

me through it? its just so far from what i have read i dont think i would
like
to go through that in a unfamiliar place with someone i dont know. >>

It is best to go through it with someone who know’s both ibogaine and how it
works with heroin dependence.

Howard

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:54:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:46:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 12, 2004 at 8:08:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI FP,

I am glad to hear you doing good, I don’t have that much time or energy for the forum, I got over 500 letters to read and I can’t read them all.  Don’t worry about your language skills, you come from another country and might not be the greatest writer using English.  But, we are not judging you on your English or spelling.  In fact I think most people on this forum do not judge people at all.  We understand what you are saying, your ideas and point of view or where your’re coming from which is far more important than how you spelled a word or if you used an incorrect word.

I said a few prayers for you asking that you get what you want and that the ibo would work.  Yes, addiction is a hell of a problem, I hope that you can stay clean.  Write me when you get a chance and let me know how your doing.  It is always nice to hear from you.

As always I wish you the best and hope you have a nice Christmas and New Years.

– JIM

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 12, 2004 at 7:20:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
> But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
>Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
>of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
>it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

>One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
>stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
>think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 5:17:20 PM EST
To: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>, “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

ok, it’s 5:15 now and still no sign of a subscribe request.
Let’s ask Patrick and see if he knows why it’s not coming to me. I get new requests all the time but haven’t yet seen yours.
Hope you are well the both of you. Gary Webb is dead, how suck ass is that?

Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:53 PM
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston

I’m too fried for this. YEAAAAAAAAAA      I tried it again, I hope it works. I used to read it all the time when I was in the Catskills at my Mamma’s. The computer and these lists have saved me time and again. Entertained me too. Life ROCKS. Lets make it louder.    Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 12, 2004 at 5:00:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on the forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,” Dresslar said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:41:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie

Thank you so much and well done it bloody fantastic that you are clean and such an achievement!!! you should be really proud, I will contact sara in holland and keep you posted.

donna

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:23:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna,

Welcome to the list…Yes, Ibo IS a spiritual
experience- nearly everyone who has done it will say
the same thing.

Like Dave and Randy said, I would also advise against
self-treatment with Ibogaine.  I did that once, and
ended up very sick, right back on methadone, and short
a few bucks…

Second time around, I had an experienced provider, the
proper environment, and PRESTO- everything just fell
into place!  I have now been clean of all opiates for
over 2 months, which is a personal record…In short,
I feel fucking fantastic(pardon the French)!!!   🙂

Because you are so close, I would recommend that you
go to see Sara in Holland…She has received glowing
reviews, and sound likes a kind, special person…She
posts here often- drop her a note, and I’m sure she’ll
respond soon…

Cheers from Toronto,

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:28:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna,

Look out for Hattie Wells-she’s in London I think.  She’ll have a contact email address somewhere.  Else there’s Sara Glatt in the Netherlands if you can travel-her place sounds like the most perfect way to go about it.  Hope you find what you’re looking for!  I’m in the UK but haven’t done Ibo…yet!  Trying to do the Subutex thing myself at the moment.

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a bit about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came off using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia to watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!  got back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found out and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately dont wat to be.

donna

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:18:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’ll see. Hahahahahahahahahahahah It is hard to describe, but I don’t think it has to be connected to God. It is very individual.

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:05:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why is the ibogaine conected to god? did it have a religious affect on you?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:03:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, I think there are providers in England. I know there is a very nice lady who does it in her home in Holland. I hadn’t met my provider till the day I did it. I was scared too, but it turned out to be the most beautiful experience I ever had while tripping. That is one of the reasons you need some experience there with you. Medically and spiritually the Ibo providers are way ahead of the rest of the recovery world. Your in the right place. Keep it up.   Randy

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:51:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI thanks for getting back to me could i have someone i know there to help me through it? its just so far from what i have read i dont think i would like to go through that in a unfamiliar place with someone i dont know.

donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:45:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a bit about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came off using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia to watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!  got back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found out and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately dont wat to be.

donna

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:25:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, self-administering ibogaine is NOT a good idea.

You should really really really [REALLY] have someone present who is experienced in these matters.

_.dh

You don’t have to do this by yourself.  Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004  9:05:42 AM Pacific/Honolulu
To: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: ibogaine

Hi

I have recently been researching ibogaine to self administer for heroin addiction would you have any info that could help i would be really grateful

donna

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:13:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, where are you located? Approximately, don’t give up your address or anything. What country and what city is it close to. You don’t have to do this by yourself.  Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:05:42 PM EST
To: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Hi

I have recently been researching ibogaine to self administer for heroin addiction would you have any info that could help i would be really grateful

donna

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:10:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, you came to the right place. Ibogaine works like nothing else, esp. for Heroin. Be specific, ask a lot of questions and find the magic. All the providers have a link on the web page and most of them post here. Welcome to the list and please stay long enough to get the help you need.          “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow”………George Clinton    Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 1:59:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi

I have recently been logging on to the ibogaine site and trying to research the drug a bit more.  Do you have any info about heroin addicts using this drug if you have i would be really grateful if you could email me.

thank you

donna

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 1:59:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi

I have recently been logging on to the ibogaine site and trying to research the drug a bit more.  Do you have any info about heroin addicts using this drug if you have i would be really grateful if you could email me.

thank you

donna

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 1:53:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m too fried for this. YEAAAAAAAAAA      I tried it again, I hope it works. I used to read it all the time when I was in the Catskills at my Mamma’s. The computer and these lists have saved me time and again. Entertained me too. Life ROCKS. Lets make it louder.    Randy
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:52:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,
Try it again. Send an email, To Subscribe, at this email address:

drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com

It should then come to me asking for me the moderator to verify that I want your raggidy ass…errr, no, that’s not what I mean, I mean, to ask me if I really want the person sending the request to really be subscribed, or if it’s actually some sort of rock n’ roll playin’ maniac, out for a wild tim…darn it, there I go again. I mean, or if it’s some sort of spam letter or generator asking me to be subscribed.
;-))
So try it please, and let’s see what happens- again.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston

Preston, I feel like an idiot. I’ve tried about 5 times to sign up for the DrugWar list and can’t ever get it done. How do I send my address to it? Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:52:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,
Try it again. Send an email, To Subscribe, at this email address:

drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com

It should then come to me asking for me the moderator to verify that I want your raggidy ass…errr, no, that’s not what I mean, I mean, to ask me if I really want the person sending the request to really be subscribed, or if it’s actually some sort of rock n’ roll playin’ maniac, out for a wild tim…darn it, there I go again. I mean, or if it’s some sort of spam letter or generator asking me to be subscribed.
;-))
So try it please, and let’s see what happens- again.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston

Preston, I feel like an idiot. I’ve tried about 5 times to sign up for the DrugWar list and can’t ever get it done. How do I send my address to it? Randy

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Anger The Healing Emotion / Mini Sessions / The Shadow & A Note for Carla 🙂
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:00:27 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: Eboga Elistas <eboga@elistas.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This point (Anger The Healing Emotion) ties right into my own personal experiences right now. I can very much agree with this as anger unexpressed is like a ball of fire that lives down deep inside us and interferes with the choices we make from day to day as we seek to avoid it or act it out, i.e. it controls us. Worse still. Some use it in a malicious, sick fashion such as coming on this list and fucking with others for the sake of amusement. Fortunately that has not been my experience here. Yet, the most vulnerable to this kind of abuse are those who probably cannot face their own anger leading to a form of sado-masochism born of co-dependency in the worse case scenario.

Myself, I am now encountering a great deal of my Shadow and know I have to connect with all the anger I have not expressed re: the abuse I went through as a child, in order to not colour my experiences in day to day life further with this unreleased anger. Example. We can avoid someone who has hurt us because of the feeling of anger it engenders. Yet the real present anger can be insignificant but leads to losing someone in our present life because of it, i.e. the person we avoid and are angry towards.

Eboga works in mysterious ways and I am going to tell you a personal story of how in this case it is working for me. It’s a long post so move to the next post if its not your thing – it does have a bit of gossip though 🙂

Recently I gave mini sessions to 2 friends of mine – one I knew well, the other for a short time. Beforehand I had a lot of ideas of setting up a center on a charitable basis to administer eboga. After this experience I decided very much against the idea. I made some elementary mistakes and I learned my lessons bitterly. I accept that with regret – lack of foresight. Yet the sessions were very successful in the round – as much for me as for those undergoing them – both expressed deep gratitude immediately after.

However, I was later royally screwed over by the one I knew for a short time who publicised very subjective and personal material about my relationship to a (girl) friend of mine with whom he was having a relationship with at the time, as well as elementary mistakes I made in the session itself (not the kind of publicity I was seeking having just published my first work on eboga). His experiences in the session brought up a lot of emotions for him that got mixed with present day events. BTW I paid for most of the eboga and charged nothing for the sessions as I do not charge for any eboga work I do – except the eboga itself. I don’t do a lot of sessions as I seek to work with people I feel I should work with and can trust. Still early days.

I learned many lessons here and the first was self protection and the difference between compassion for someone and letting them screw you over based on the pretext that they are simply expressing themselves freely and that all healed people should be able to accept that. Sorry, not when it crosses the boundaries. I also learned its important to chose candidates carefully for this kind of work. I also think this particular kind of work (mini sessions) should be done on a one to one basis. The individual needs special attention and sometimes guidance at this dose level. I don’t rule out group work but at this stage I am not at all keen on the idea unless I am working alone in small numbers with backup close at hand but out of the way. It also helps that the person having the session is reasonably mature in understanding the meaning of projection and to be able to distinguish between the past and the present and not to seek relief in present day projections – after counselling is advised. Having said that projection is a very powerful force which can tax the most discerning minds. I also learned about my own responsibilities. To know them is one thing. To enact them is another as sometimes we can get caught out by events – hence working alone for me is preferable. In this case I was with someone who was a helper/observer who had no experience in this area and proved to be a small but significant distraction to me & because of her connection to the person undergoing the mini-session a distraction there also. (Yet, it all worked itself out beautifully – thanks Eboga!) I imagine I will go on to learn much more. Which is why I veer now towards the idea of experienced initiated friends helping trusted friends for this kind of work. (Major sessions are a completely different kettle of fish). I hope to establish some form of network to do this work on a charitable basis.

I was absolutely livid about the material published. My anger towards the sessions failings and my own failings (which I accept) I could deal with and did in fact resolve within myself. But this was a malicious step across the line and that was not acceptable. Had I listened solely to my mind which is my normal style when avoiding anger, I would have swallowed the bullshit and passed it over blaming my own shortcomings in the process (co-dependency). But as I have been encountering my Shadow recently it has shown me I am not dealing properly with my anger and so in this case the feeling was so strong, I felt like I was levitating on air. I decided to brush aside my rationalisations and accept the power that was in me. My rational mind could begin to rationalise it away but my whole self just moved with a force of certainly (not normal anger as such) I could not avoid and I confronted this individual – highly unusual for me as I tend to run away from such confrontations. I told him what he did was completely egocentric and lacking in consideration (not to mention it being a selfish payback) and to stay out of my life completely. Do I regret doing that? No. Do I think it makes me a less loving person? No. Do I think it was good for him? Probably. Do I hope he moves on in himself? Yes, most certainly. Do I want to fill my being with peace and love? Yes, please! But love begins with Self and Self protection is a basic aspect of Self-Love.

Sometimes we have to trust our own inner force that emerges and fills us with a sense of outrage. Its an outrage that doesn’t seek to destroy but to protect & to affirm the beauty and the wholeness of ones own Self and most importantly the dignity of Life: my life, your life, all life.

I will just add a note for Carla. I like your spunk even if sometimes I may not agree with everything you say 🙂 But I do think it is important for me to learn how to improve on presentation and delivery. Hitting the right balance between ego and soul is an art and one I find myself struggling with and learning on this list. Obviously, there is something in what you say and I know I have much to learn as I move from my old life to my new one – like a baby learns to walk. Yet, nobody is perfect as my post here testifies.

BTW thank you to the guy who screwed me over. Eboga worked through you and once more helped me to move on. Thanks a million!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 7:42:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I feel like an idiot. I’ve tried about 5 times to sign up for the DrugWar list and can’t ever get it done. How do I send my address to it?            Randy

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 12, 2004 at 4:19:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, those neuro sounds are really very interesting – I don’t want to dumb things down too much but I put them through wavelite/reason and I’m using them as percussion on some song files ,truly organic music – thanks a lot…………….sjonny

>In a message dated 12/11/04 3:39:44 PM, kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk writes:

>

><< http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html

>

>

>http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/son.html >>

>

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Out of topic survivors stories
Date: December 11, 2004 at 11:36:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some fascinating real  stories of survivors, hurricane, sinking boat, fire
etc..

http://www.thrivenet.com/articles/oprahsty.html

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —–
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–

From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New
Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

——————————————————————

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even
more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members
of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

——————————————————————-

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo!
Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

——————————————————————-

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

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[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 11, 2004 at 9:54:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/11/04 3:39:44 PM, kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/son.html >>

Great pages.  Loved the sounds on son.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light -ron to martee (OT)
Date: December 11, 2004 at 7:02:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the suggestion, it’s a good one.  might cut down on the whine time. no need qualify positive suggestions w/ respectfully and the like, although i appreciate the bedside manner.  trying to get that positive mindset that i’ve dodged all these yrs.  seems to run on one side of the family and i’ve chomped onto it. noone likes to hear it and the ears or eyes it falls on could be alot worse off than my sitch. peace, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

ron,
Last night on abc primetime(i believe) they did a piece on youths committing suicide after ingesting paxil and zoloft.  The dr. expert who exposed the drug co’s lack of serious testing and renaming withdrawl, discontinuance something(i forgetand representing these families is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.  He is also involved with this lawsuit. He has a book called the antidepresant handbook. This one girl stopped in three months total, by cutting pills and then  liquifying them and using a dropper.  I do not personally know this guys reputation or protocol.  I googled his name and it came right up.  Maybe there’s something there to help you feel more comfortable with how you are going about helping yourself.  I am unfarmiliar with any pills other than the ones from the 60’s your basic ups and downers. After that I had no desire to mix pills with my methedone even though everyone else was.  So even though the pills discussed here may not be the ones you are on, i’m thinking there may be some info to assist you in your quest to help yourself. I know i just repeated myself but there’s a reason for that.
It also sounds like your fear is also of what is to come or pass.  And again if you are able to maintain for this minute, this hour, this day (which I believe you do) then your fear is an illusion and a hinderance to your mental, emotional, physical and spiritual state.  You need a plan that be it slow progress is still progress and be at peace with what you are doing (going in the right direction). Functioning from a more calm centered place.   I only have one more thing to say for now.  Sara Sara SaraSaraSAraSaRASARA.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 11, 2004 at 3:38:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If anyone has any more links to start out with please
let me know,

“you know…for kids”
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/son.html

___________________________________________________________
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 11, 2004 at 2:55:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis,

Thank you for showing your appreciation.
I have never been an addict but I have made myself an addict to
Tobacco then took Iboga and felt how easy it was for me to quit.
That means for me a lot. One of the reason for me to provide an Iboga
session is because I use Iboga each year and also many time small
Doses to stay awaken. A very small dose keeps me in “that” Iboga state
Of mind. It felt magical, fear of the magical and letting go of that fear.
The people who experienced it know what I’m talking about and for many
It would be just the reason not to do it.

Be well,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 18:09
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

Hi Sarah !!
That the way I see my God too, like you said :
“everything everywhere all
the time, it is endless.”

No wonder you are doing such a wonderful job with Ibogaine, is that a
mission
or you where youself addicted and found your way out troughr Ibo ?
God bless you
Francis

You wrote :

In my opinion. Because of the teachings I had, God= everything everywhere
al
the time, it is endless.
The ego, is some how your teacher, the drive to get some where.
Forgiveness will open the way to new experience in life.
Life is a system, the ego can teach us how to live in a system
But also against the system, other species live with the system.
The system is taking care that we can stay alive.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 2:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 11, 2004 at 12:09:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sarah !!
That the way I see my God too, like you said :
“everything everywhere all
the time, it is endless.”

No wonder you are doing such a wonderful job with Ibogaine, is that a
mission
or you where youself addicted and found your way out troughr Ibo ?
God bless you
Francis

You wrote :

In my opinion. Because of the teachings I had, God= everything everywhere
al
the time, it is endless.
The ego, is some how your teacher, the drive to get some where.
Forgiveness will open the way to new experience in life.
Life is a system, the ego can teach us how to live in a system
But also against the system, other species live with the system.
The system is taking care that we can stay alive.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 2:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] zoom zoom zoom – mercury(OT)
Date: December 11, 2004 at 11:06:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

never mentioned  that as a reason. as i recall, they were expanding and all going to fall out soon.  (they’ll all probably fall out 2-night).  he had a fledgling practice, beautiful hygienist and had just started his first strip mall as an outside investment. or maybe he d/n think i knew enough to explain things thoroughly. like i couldn’t understand dental speak. ron  he soon moved to another spot, the hygienist married a beach developer, the mall was built, filled and now sits in a rundown neighborhood surrounded by convenience stores with several empty shop  in it. i d/n think the dentist lives near by but could be wrong.—– Original Message —–
From: Rachel Radhakrishna
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:09 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] zoom zoom zoom – mercury

Ron, did the Dentist want to change your fillings because they were mercury amalgam?
I was a sugar addict from before the age of five, and given my genetics, my natural teeth didn’t hold up too well under that.  They did worse when I got braces.  So I have jaws full of toxic metals, and wonder sometimes if they are contributing to my general brain fog.
Because, ya know, why blame it on The Drugs?  😉

__________________________________________________
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee from ron
Date: December 11, 2004 at 9:45:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,
Sounds like tapering in your state is maybe not going to help as you are not in a good place mentally to get on with it.
Out of curiosity. Why wont you take the plunge and go to Sara and use Howards pointers?
When you get there you can still bail out.
Maybe ask for a sign when you take the time to communicate with your inner source?
Just a thought.
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzos have zapped the dreams. wouldn’t know rem sleep if it bit me. my father has congestive heart failure, under hospice, on oxygen generator and stays at home.  he’s dying before my eyes.  i’ve squared with him but need to stay close for my mom.  she’s got the faith, positive gene pool and cannot understand addicts.  the old man was one, got sober for yrs. , relapsed, like me.  she’s angry. now i’m not on the pity party, just responding to a question.
i want to be sttrong for her but find i’m dragging her down. also,  being the only kid w/ no partner now  has me feeling  preorphan.    the stressfull job keeps pushing me and the ball keeps spinning.  i suspect i’ll take the death hard, but i ain’t getting sober like i should.  the FEAR  you perceptively point out has me paralyzed.  don’t know how fast to taper, can’t hold a taper when i get ultra stressed, soone ror later all sources will dry up and i’ll be in jail or on the streets.  that’s old at 54.  no fun in my life, very lethargic.  i once helped people , now my clients are praying for me.  never could keep up a journal.  you are very thoughtful to have asked me these things and i thank you for it. i don’t think i’m doing as well as i appear.  i think i’m hanging by a straw. my parents were happiest when i was straight, i was functional and helpful.  i just get by now.  my fault. i know today’s bottom can be tomorrow’s penthouse and i don;t wanna go there. breaking that pill has me trembling and will render me sleepless.   thanks for the encouragement. ron i’ll miss my father as many others on the list miss their lost loved ones.—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Ron,

I am very proud of you man. Sounds like you are stepping forward. You dont sound too twisted to me. Just under the influence of a lot of fear. I think your mindset is pretty good right now and in the right direction.
Do you mind if I ask what timescale do you expect for your father? Or is it open ended?
My father passed away and frequently joins me in my sessions. He seems very pleased at my progress as I am sure your father too will be when he decides to go to the other side. I still think of my father most days and he passed on a few years before I started eboga about 6 years ago. Truth is I still feel him as being alive in some way. In many ways I know him better now that I ever did. I have been given a lot of insight. I feel a lot of love for him.
Sometimes we can only do one thing at a time but at least you are now doing something.
That idea that came up using the sandpaper sounds like a good one. Breaking a pill in half sounds groundbreaking.
Hang in there and keep going forward.
Carrying the prayer around with you is (imo) a beautiful & enriching thing to do.

Love & Light,
Lee

PS What is your dreamlife like these days? Do you remember them? Have you considered journalling? I get a lot of info & sometimes clear guidance from my dreams.

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ego
Date: December 11, 2004 at 5:34:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Help I’m a rock.      Help I’m a rock.      But I’d rather be a cop.        Help I’m a cop.       Help I’m a cop.     But I’d rather be the Mayor…………….. Frank Zappa.            Help I’m an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.          But I’d rather be totally grounded and at one with the cosmos. Does this mean I need another session? (I hope so)           Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo
Date: December 11, 2004 at 5:21:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 11, 2004 at 4:49:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my opinion. Because of the teachings I had, God= everything everywhere al
the time, it is endless.
The ego, is some how your teacher, the drive to get some where.
Forgiveness will open the way to new experience in life.
Life is a system, the ego can teach us how to live in a system
But also against the system, other species live with the system.
The system is taking care that we can stay alive.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 2:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] zoom zoom zoom – mercury
Date: December 11, 2004 at 12:09:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, did the Dentist want to change your fillings because they were mercury amalgam?
I was a sugar addict from before the age of five, and given my genetics, my natural teeth didn’t hold up too well under that.  They did worse when I got braces.  So I have jaws full of toxic metals, and wonder sometimes if they are contributing to my general brain fog.
Because, ya know, why blame it on The Drugs?  😉

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:48:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kamlet is the attending physician (doctor in charge) for deborah mash’s
ibogaine therapies on st kitts. Mallendi is a gabonese nganga who has treated over
three hundred persons with iboga and has been popularizing its use in france
and I am the discoverer of ibogaine’s antiaddictive effects.
http://www.ibogaine.org/4499096.html

Sara Glatt is the key iboga/ibogaine provider in the Netherlands.  Eric Taub
has probably treated close to 700 people with ibogaine in various locations.

Begin Again

Howard

In a message dated 12/10/04 9:34:53 PM, rwd3@cox.net writes:

<< these guys all treat folks or are they just sages? curious. don’t know all

the players or their roles.. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:30 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

In a message dated 12/10/04 10:54:32 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Actually written by ron I think.

thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know

there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using

previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus

decreasing

dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant

step.

Anyway, there is nothing to be afraid of.  And bottom line if you really

have

an adverse reaction to coming off benzodiazepines you can take a small

amount

after/during iboga/ibogaine and then get treated again.  Sara is an expert

at

these matters.  That being said I assume no liability for any of your

actions

or hers.  Where is my modern hospital?  I would have kamlet, taub, glatt,

mallendi on staff among others.  You have identified your biggest problem.

It is

fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator of fear I know.

What

will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not afraid?

Kamlet

should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work togther.

Then

they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi iboga center.

Sorry

just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:26:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for thinking of me. sara and i are in communication, but one of the list’s scholars  frightened me about ibo and benzo.  it was a receptor thing. i know nothing at this point. peace, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

ron,
Last night on abc primetime(i believe) they did a piece on youths committing suicide after ingesting paxil and zoloft.  The dr. expert who exposed the drug co’s lack of serious testing and renaming withdrawl, discontinuance something(i forgetand representing these families is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.  He is also involved with this lawsuit. He has a book called the antidepresant handbook. This one girl stopped in three months total, by cutting pills and then  liquifying them and using a dropper.  I do not personally know this guys reputation or protocol.  I googled his name and it came right up.  Maybe there’s something there to help you feel more comfortable with how you are going about helping yourself.  I am unfarmiliar with any pills other than the ones from the 60’s your basic ups and downers. After that I had no desire to mix pills with my methedone even though everyone else was.  So even though the pills discussed here may not be the ones you are on, i’m thinking there may be some info to assist you in your quest to help yourself. I know i just repeated myself but there’s a reason for that.
It also sounds like your fear is also of what is to come or pass.  And again if you are able to maintain for this minute, this hour, this day (which I believe you do) then your fear is an illusion and a hinderance to your mental, emotional, physical and spiritual state.  You need a plan that be it slow progress is still progress and be at peace with what you are doing (going in the right direction). Functioning from a more calm centered place.   I only have one more thing to say for now.  Sara Sara SaraSaraSAraSaRASARA.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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——————————————————————

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——————————————————————-

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——————————————————————-

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:18:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i hate to ask for professional advice. one member offered professioanl help and i didn’t seize the moment. too my regret.  haven’t heard from him in about a month.  i’ll just put myself out here and if a good samaritan helps me with my cosmic makeover, i’ll figure i’m where i’m supposed to be.  not asking for a freebie, got a few bucks. my nos. scare most docs and they want to lock me up.  i found what i think is a good taper plan by a prof in the uk but no one in my world will buy it. benzo forums all stress avoiding  traditional rehab, 2 week detox..i tend to believe them, but what do i know? just treading water, hopefully will get to shore and recapture my spirit, ron –
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

That thought went through my mind also ie reduction in relation to dosage, but I dont consider myself competent enough to comment on how much one should reduce by.

Ron, have you sought advice on the level you can reduce by? Maybe Dr Tom can advise you there?

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis wrote:
>… as for today i have broken a pill in
>half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
>a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

>… my mind set is this, break the physcial
>addiction and i will be free. the chemicals keep me from the
>power. help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

>don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

> —– Original Message —–
> From: Lee Albert
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

>would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
>is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
>Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.
>
>
>
> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
> He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
> He leadeth me beside the still waters.
> He restoreth my soul:
> he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

>
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
>enemies:
> Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
> Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
>life:
> and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
>
> Psalms 23:1-6
>
> I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
>was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
>other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
>violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
>help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
>by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
>SHINING in your face.
>
> When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
>were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

>top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

>cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

> not to mention the cure.
>
> You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
>get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
>live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
>higher power and it came through for me.
>
> You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
>entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

>in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
>the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

>refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
>is waiting for you.
>
> How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
>faith?
>
> The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
>works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
>
> Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

>experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
>they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

>is the key to success.
>
> I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
>talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

>So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
>got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
>with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
>Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
>will kill you.
>
> God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
>expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
>of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
>
> Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

>a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
>repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
>news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

>Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
>(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
>everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

>you.
>
> You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
>that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
>the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
>death.” with this:
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Blessings & Light
>
> Lee
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
>kind. i will ask. what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

>been in and what was it? were there problems? i think ibo would

>kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

>death
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Sara Glatt
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
>
>
> In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

>any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

>different addiction combination,
>
> Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
>of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
>symptoms.
>
> I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
>talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
>little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
>
> You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
>your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

>do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
>of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
>nights, by that time you can
>
> Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
>session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
>
> That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping. It

>isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
>massages, hot bath.
>
> I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
>done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
>or funds for such research,
>
> Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
>to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
>fun research is that?
>
> I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
>during detox. that what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
>everyone, it was just an option
>
> If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
>like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

>over dosed or under dosed or seizures.
>
>
>
> And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>——-
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> hi sara:
>
> can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
>you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
>benzos alone? scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

>) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

>see it as dangerous or simply difficult? it is beyond my realm
>of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
>
> LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
>far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
>offered advice and help.also apologies to others i may have
>offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
>bashing and the like.
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Sara Glatt
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
>
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Hi , I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
>Cannabis.
>
> Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
>and the mood.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—–
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
>occasioanlly benzoa. I can’t speak for her. Ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

>in your situation & how she did it?
>
> Sara – can you comment?
>
>
>
> There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

>a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
>them.
>
>
>
> Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?
>
>
>
> Albert
>
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
>has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
>with the ibo receptors, hence no go. i am trying to taper with
>the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
>few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
>proven to work. it is a long, arduous journey
>
> and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
>that may have fallen thru. a wise man told me in no uncertain
>terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
>credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
>this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement. i think

>i’m screwed, by my own hand. i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
>life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
>life. docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

>afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
>helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

>i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
>not on the list. it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
>father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
>can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
>ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
>forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
>i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
>over a year, the clock is ticking. i have a unique story, but
>it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest i think sara

>is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
>could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?(0t)
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
> I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
>you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

>clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
>most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
>something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
>likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
>inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
>have a connection to it by being here.
>
> BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
>to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

>options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
>your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
>
> Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
>couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
>
> Love & Light
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
>different countries. i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
>time under my belt. took some opiates after minor surgery,
>(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
>strung out for a short time. i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
>and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos. never had taken them in the
>old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
>withdrawals from them can be. just never read up on it and never
>knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
>up and the same old pattern set in so i started reading about
>these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
>and can lead to seizures. i read more and found out this stuff
>had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
>hell out of me. it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
>taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
>worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
>centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks. this appeared
>contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
>like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
>forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
>should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center. i then went
>to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me to put me on a
>slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
>seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
>considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation. i have spent the

>last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
>i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
>but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
>have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

>looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take
>anything else. my problem really started when i got away from 12
>step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

>i now have much to lose and am terrified. withdrawals from meth
>and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
>careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
>mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
>issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
>little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
>whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

>i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
>corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
>long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
>ventured i did not have a problem. one that he hasn’t bumped into

>yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
>will. ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
>from a lame student. i never thought i’d be fighting this war
>again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
>addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
>older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
>
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> A question:
>
>
>
> These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
>i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
>hardest and most deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>————————————————————–
>
> Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New
>Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even
>more fun!
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members
>of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—
>
> Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo!
>Messenger
>
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
>media available here:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee from ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:03:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

benzos have zapped the dreams. wouldn’t know rem sleep if it bit me. my father has congestive heart failure, under hospice, on oxygen generator and stays at home.  he’s dying before my eyes.  i’ve squared with him but need to stay close for my mom.  she’s got the faith, positive gene pool and cannot understand addicts.  the old man was one, got sober for yrs. , relapsed, like me.  she’s angry. now i’m not on the pity party, just responding to a question.
i want to be sttrong for her but find i’m dragging her down. also,  being the only kid w/ no partner now  has me feeling  preorphan.    the stressfull job keeps pushing me and the ball keeps spinning.  i suspect i’ll take the death hard, but i ain’t getting sober like i should.  the FEAR  you perceptively point out has me paralyzed.  don’t know how fast to taper, can’t hold a taper when i get ultra stressed, soone ror later all sources will dry up and i’ll be in jail or on the streets.  that’s old at 54.  no fun in my life, very lethargic.  i once helped people , now my clients are praying for me.  never could keep up a journal.  you are very thoughtful to have asked me these things and i thank you for it. i don’t think i’m doing as well as i appear.  i think i’m hanging by a straw. my parents were happiest when i was straight, i was functional and helpful.  i just get by now.  my fault. i know today’s bottom can be tomorrow’s penthouse and i don;t wanna go there. breaking that pill has me trembling and will render me sleepless.   thanks for the encouragement. ron i’ll miss my father as many others on the list miss their lost loved ones.—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Ron,

I am very proud of you man. Sounds like you are stepping forward. You dont sound too twisted to me. Just under the influence of a lot of fear. I think your mindset is pretty good right now and in the right direction.
Do you mind if I ask what timescale do you expect for your father? Or is it open ended?
My father passed away and frequently joins me in my sessions. He seems very pleased at my progress as I am sure your father too will be when he decides to go to the other side. I still think of my father most days and he passed on a few years before I started eboga about 6 years ago. Truth is I still feel him as being alive in some way. In many ways I know him better now that I ever did. I have been given a lot of insight. I feel a lot of love for him.
Sometimes we can only do one thing at a time but at least you are now doing something.
That idea that came up using the sandpaper sounds like a good one. Breaking a pill in half sounds groundbreaking.
Hang in there and keep going forward.
Carrying the prayer around with you is (imo) a beautiful & enriching thing to do.

Love & Light,
Lee

PS What is your dreamlife like these days? Do you remember them? Have you considered journalling? I get a lot of info & sometimes clear guidance from my dreams.

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:00:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:34:07 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
these guys all treat folks or are they just sages? curious. don’t
know all the players or their roles.. ron

I would have kamlet,

Kamlet, Kamlet, where art thou Kamlet?
Works for Mash part-time at St. Kitts, I believe.

taub,

Taub, Taub, banana-rana mau Taub?

Begin Again

glatt,

Glatt ta see me?
usually referred to as Sara

mallendi

Bwiti nganga, see google.

You have identified your biggest problem.
It is fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator
of fear I know.

This is why it could be useful even if it doesn’t kick the benzos
on its own. Aftercare is still advised.

What
will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not
afraid?
Kamlet
should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work
togther.
Then
they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi
iboga center.
Sorry
just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 9:34:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

these guys all treat folks or are they just sages? curious. don’t know all the players or their roles.. ron
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

In a message dated 12/10/04 10:54:32 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Actually written by ron I think.

thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know
there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using
previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing
dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant
step.

Anyway, there is nothing to be afraid of.  And bottom line if you really have
an adverse reaction to coming off benzodiazepines you can take a small amount
after/during iboga/ibogaine and then get treated again.  Sara is an expert at
these matters.  That being said I assume no liability for any of your actions
or hers.  Where is my modern hospital?  I would have kamlet, taub, glatt,
mallendi on staff among others.  You have identified your biggest problem. It is
fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator of fear I know. What
will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not afraid? Kamlet
should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work togther. Then
they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi iboga center. Sorry
just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:55:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

Generally I like to think of humans as biological creatures, and of
all metaphysical experiences as psychological phenomena that tell
us primarily about the beings experiencing them.

Puppet Song
By Robin Williamson

Now you may have observed if you walk into a wall
you get a certain sensation of reality
when you take a look through your memory book
you may perceive a certain rhythmic regularity
the crazy things your mind gets up to when you’re away
throwing clouds of rain over brightest day

there was once a little man
he worked all day and slept all night
he looked at the sun
it didn’t seem bright, it didn’t seen right
he wondered did the world go rolling along on its own
or did some spirit move it with a black cat bone
and he set out to find the causes behind
the events in the world
and the seasons of the mind

so he asked his wife about it, and his wife said yes
come back and see me if it’s time to know less
you do too much aquestioning of the world at large
everybody knows the politician’s in charge

so he went to the Kinghouse just the next day
to see that politician with his hair dyed grey
jump down turn around blow you up or kiss the ground
trying to be the president of the land so gay
he had false pretendies, I had to love his style
bound to make some havoc with that violin smile
hey, Salvador Dali, make a walking talking something
you paint some freaky pictures, make a likeness of that man
muchos dollars if you can

so the little man asked the politician who makes the plan
who makes the plan, what happens to me
and who has the key

now you are asking me who makes the scene
his highness King Gold and Madam Silver his queen
they keep it all arustling with the dollars and pounds
and everyone knows that money makes the world go round

so the little man asked King Gold and Madam Silver
come tell me what you can
and King Gold said, lifting his golden voice from his golden bed

now money is something, it’s a basic flow
and me I am the archetype of jewels and dough
I do a lot of talking both slow and fast
but me make decisions, no of course it’s the past
for the past is something, we all have some
and universal history is a bundle of fun
now I’m getting sleepy, starting to nod
if you want to check the picture, want to check the picture
want to check it, check it with God

so the little man climbed up on a rickety ladder, to the heavenly
lands
and he shed a tear, ‘it’s all so queer and it doesn’t seem clear’

now God was sitting easy in a heavenly chair
breathing deep and lazy on the heavenly air
the little man got near him just to get right from wrong
said ‘God are you responsible for all that goes on’
God looked up from having a heavenly think
he gave that little questioner a heavenly wink, saying

‘men have coloured me with the colours of their minds
so I find
they used me as an excuse for all kinds of goofs
and for crimes of all kinds
all your so hard facts painted thinly on the void
why were you not more pleasantly employed
anything you want to do, I’m happy if you make it go right
and it’s true if it makes you happy you know it makes the
world more bright
and you shall have liberty
it always was yours anyway
you’re one of my kind, you’re an infinite mind
you make each new day
there’s nothing more I can say’

(sample at:
http://songs2.allofmp3.com/mcatalog.shtml?group=13857&album=1&albref
=7

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:30:21 -0800 The Garden
<GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
This absolutly personal  and dedicate to someone in the list
Sometimes people are afraid to let go their Ego and to surrender
to God.
They are afraid that God will reject them or will ask them to do
more than
they can do.
First God never ask you to do  more than you can do.
To be a Saint “martyr” or a Saint ” victim ” is not for everyone.

Second God is perfectly merciful because is perfect.
You can read the life of any Saint and you will find that they ALL

believe
in a
Good  Loving God always ready to forgive.at anytime, no matter
who you are
and what you’ve done.

A lot of people have a complete rejection of  the notion of God
and his
mercy.
They just have to monitor the way they think during the day and
they will
find why they reject God.

Now you have people who feel that maybee it’s something : an
higher power,
something….
They are ready to change but they are afraid to do the change.
They  feel they are stuck in something dirty, who stop them from
moving.
Each time they try to move it’s painful. The dirt like a glue,
bringing
them back.
They don’t realize that the dirty glue is already dry and
breakable.
Only bad memories of things that they had done
and most of the time was done to them when they where still
innocent and did
no right from wrong.
They can walk free now, and let go the remorse.
They will have to change some people around them
of bad influence. They will not, at the begining make big change
in their
life
but a lot of small one adapting to the flow and  to their new
beliefs
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “santaz A(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

___________________________________________________________________

___
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:31:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 10 December 2004 17:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN

Hi Nick !!
Always a pleasure .
You wrote :

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control,
* Exactly, that the point. If I know, that my brain can perform
in a better
way, I will try to take over the control of my mind and not let
my instinct
or my craving brain run the show.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy
* been there, done it , been there and guess what  no much
positive  result.
Stopped my experiment and research .

Fair enough.

You wrote :
You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

* “You are your Ego and if I uderstood you from previous E-mail : You are
God. ”

Yeah, it’s true, man. You are simultaneously the Ego – Little Me – and the
thing that Little Me concieves of as God. There’s a two-way traffic – Little
Me, the Ego, seeking Truth/Oneness/God/whatever; and the already
transcendent Truth/Oneness/God/whatever seeking to be totally the Ego. Shit,
I would never have believed that one, but that is what I saw when my head
was broken open. When I first took a big dose of iboga I spent five plus
hours fully conscious of the reality that I was never gonna die. I mean, I
was raving, practically foaming at the mouth in amazement at being
confronted with this as an actual physical reality. I saw a guy called
Bernie Prior a few months back and he talked about when he first realized he
was gonna live forever. He laughed for hours on end. Drove from London to
Bristol and couldn’t stop the whole way. You can’t stop, man. And it’s true.
For sure, it’s quite a journey trying to point this out to people. They
freak. Thirty, forty years of God playing at being mortal goes in deep.
Doesn’t move just like that.

Look in to the gaps, man. Look into the gaps between the mind assessing the
idea that You might be God and it dumping the idea. See the chain of
protective thoughts. If you want to. Otherwise I think you’re great anyway.

with love

Nick

You are absolutely right , being a God, you can’t surrender your Ego, it
will be disastrous. Now if you are only a man, you can do what
ever you want
with it. Clean it, downsize it, expande it till it blows , change it, play
with it, beat it or give it away to charity.Give it away to your
girl friend
or boyfriend. Give it away to an Higher power, sell it for power
, money or
for sex. It’s your Ego after all.!!

– ….It a new age nonsense
* (IMO)not realy new, been done for thousand of years by believers in the
Tao, Buddha Vishnou, Krisna and so non and so on… It could be a
non sense
but as you know I believe in absurd..

-You wrote
– You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control.
* you absolutely right. You now I have a craving brain and strong instinct
so if I dont control my stupid mind I will eat t two pounds of fine
chocolate  that my mother send me, open a six pack an go hunting
for a nice
tourist ass. That my Cave man brain talking: I am to instinctive
for myself
and for people around me .
So now,   cave man no fool, knows tools and know better.

You wrote :
Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to
create, seeking
to express.
* I agree, that the point,. Sometimes you need a good change of life, or
change an entire beliefs system, or some values , or to get some
new  tools.

-Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion.
* I am not so sure about the expansion That your belief and I  absolutly
respect it…  I don’t grasp the concept of body.
Are you refering body mind and soul ? Expansion is another concept a bit
abstract for me now.

You wrote :
Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the
unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it.

*You are right one more time. I was reading the life of Padre Pio
and Saint
Francis. It’s amazing how much they have to fight their own
instinct, (will,
human craving brain). To surrender on a daily base to their God.
Trust me they have very good reason to get very pissed , specialy at their
own church.

Warriors, warriors we call ourselves.
We fight for splendid virtue,
for sublime wisdom,
therefore we call ourselves warrior.
Aunguttara Nikaya

You wrote :
That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy.
* Who said so ? Maybee they are in the ” new age bullshit” because they
where very unhealthy to start with ?/!.

Nick, you wrote :
They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

* Looking at the way people choose to govern themselve, their familly  and
their country
I realy believe that they actualy enjoy  and appreciate a lot
the need for
unconsciousness an imbalance but they still are far from greatest
awareness.
God Bless
Francis

– To surrender your will to a loving higher power.
Then you don’t have  to fight anymore : encrease level of
Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– Accept to be powerless on about everything 🙂
boyfriend, boss, familly member….
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class,
ceramics
class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe.
Less fears,
feeling of ” to be part of ” to be useful encrease level of  Serotonin
and
decrease Dopamine

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control, trying to make a balance in
something which
seeks to go out of balance for a while. You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy. You can’t surrender “your Ego to
some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why
the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to
create, seeking
to express. Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion. It’s not often asking to be balanced by mental activity and
fiddling about with its systems. Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the
unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it. That’s
why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of
unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

with love

Nick

– to get rid of the burdain of self guilt and self pity: confessions,
spiritual cleansing, inventory, amends.
encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
– humility
Getting read of the EGO . You don’t have to prove anything, to
argue, to
fight …encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
-Patience
Same here,
– Simplicity
If you   live in simplicity. You are killing the desire to
accumulate: less
dopamine and energy spent in the
” rat race ” Fewers enemies….more control on your life, more time
available to enjoy
– To live in the present. encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease
Dopamine. No more worries and repents .

– Doct ignorance : I know that I don’t know shit 🙂 so even this list
is
maybee wrong, maybee not.?/!
-meditation
-prayer
-comtemplation
– relaxation
– music ( relaxing)
-warm bath
– Special breathing
-biofeedback
-auto hypnosis
-hypnosis
-acupuncture
-massage
– Food ( absolutly natural avoid carbs and sugar )
– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of  tryptophan.
Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of endorphine. No more over
stimulation
– Mantra
– Taking care of a persone, animal or garden.
– sex
In general, avoid any form  of unecessary stress
I am serious 😉 you can teach your brain how to balance
dopamine  with
serotonin and build a new ” landscape ”
Everything in this list  is working in  rebalancing chemical
deficiencies
God Bless
Francis


—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of
your
drug abuse

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:10:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Schmooly, do you have any comment on gabapentin in benzo w/d?

http://www.cpa-
apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/April/Letters3.asp

“…Due to her instability and continued benzodiazepine use, she
was declined entry into residential addiction treatment. She
refused carbemazepine because of potential side effects. She
instead started on 200 mg of gabapentin 3 times daily. Initially as
her symptoms of anxiety, tremor, and affective lability rapidly
decreased, she described gabapentin as <93>feeling like
alprazolam.<94>
Clonazepam was then tapered off. Within 3 weeks of admission, she
was benzodiazepine-free. The subjective, alprazolam-like effect
faded, but anxious symptoms remained controlled, with little
craving for benzodiazepines or other substances, including
cigarettes. She denied any adverse effects from the medication,
except for short-term sedation. The total daily dose of gabapentin
remained low (600 mg daily). Off benzodiazepines, her mental state
improved, allowing discharge from hospital and commencement of
outpatient addiction treatment. Two months later, she remained
abstinent.”

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:08:33 -0800 Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
I an sure if kamlet and mollendi had millions they would give it.
You know
that those who work this field don’t get rich. They just work
hard. When you
find someone with millions to open the k and m Ibo hospital, let
me know. I will
send all my friend and Ron too.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NiX tr|b3s
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:12:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but this “positive tribes” stuff is bullshit to me…..
<snip>
…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with everything. Can’t just let you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse, whatever happens. Has to be going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I hate that shit.

I’d rather be headed in a positive direction than a negative one, probably because I’ve spent most of my life going in a negative direction – and it was fucking miserable. It was a great learning experience, but today I do believe in bettering myself and making life bearable to those around me, which is a ‘positive’ thing. Choosing to surround myself with like minded people seems a logical choice, eh?

‘just for today’… I’m all for a positive tribe.

but in the end, negative or positive it is all just god experiencing itself thru us.

can’t have won without the ‘udder’.

om mani padme hum (or something like that)

_.dh

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:08:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I an sure if kamlet and mollendi had millions they would give it. You know that those who work this field don’t get rich. They just work hard. When you find someone with millions to open the k and m Ibo hospital, let me know. I will send all my friend and Ron too.

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:00:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick !!

You wrote :

. All
my life I was immersed in Jesus – school, parents, the whole trip. Who
wouldn’t want to act it out? It’s fucking great!

*Same here, man. Seven years in catholic boarding school  can  keep you away
from spirituality for a long time.

But it just bores the living shit out of me when people try to make some
kind of religion out of this stuff.

* I dind’ t mean it 🙁

Like positivity is some kind of panacea.
*……..Well I thought so.. 🙁

You can’t go on sugar-coating shit forever. People won’t swallow it and at
some point you have to expose yourself more.

That’s all I’m saying.

* Me too…That all I’m saying  🙂
It’s a huge difference between spirituality and religion and at some point I
have too , to expose myself more.

Nick , we are different but we complete each other 🙂 We should put a show
togheter 🙂

God bless
Francis

Hi Nick, I know you or your writing at least for years
here 🙂 so I have a much less angry response then I’d
have to someone else, because when you say something
in your face or high handed you stop in a few messages
or I think I at least believe I know you’re coming
from a positive place, sorry I didn’t mean to use the
word positive 😉

Why on earth would you tell anyone who has finally
made such huge progress forward that everything
they’re doing doesn’t matter? I’m sure you can argue
philosophy or meaning of life or whatnot and justify
all that, but then why does it even matter if you’re
on drugs in the first place, it doesn’t to anyone
except for yourself or your family does it. It isn’t
like I get the idea “god” cares or has some objection
to it.

You and Lee both have this same habit of coming on
like god above or below or in the mirror or anywhere
you want to see “god” let me rephrase that 😉 you
have this habit of coming on like you know everything
everyone has ever gone through and have all the
answers, then the next message you’ll reply that you
don’t really have any of the answers and I’m not even
knocking that because it’s like this entire group of
you two, Patrick, ibogaine project with Francis, a
whole lot of people who are saying the same thing in
different ways.

To give Lee a huge amount of respect, when you first
got here Lee you were totally full of yourself 😉 but
when people said that, instead of arguing with them
you thought about it and stopped 🙂 That made me
listen to what you might say a lot more and thanks for
that Lee because I enjoy your messages very much, you
changed your tone a lot  🙂

Nick, you and Lee are usually coming more from this
messiah tone, I think maybe it’s that neither one of
you has ever been a drug addict and yes I know this is
where you explain how we all have pain and you’re
fighting with cigarettes or whatnot 😉 but Lee
usually says things that are kind to people, while you
take something that Randy finds useful and knock it
all down. Why say that Nick?

Hi Carla,

Hey, what am i knocking down? I said all this pseudo-positivity stuff I
find
a drag, that’s all. And what’s wrong with being the Messiah? I am the
fucking Messiah! What’s wrong with that? It’s a great trip being Jesus.
All
my life I was immersed in Jesus – school, parents, the whole trip. Who
wouldn’t want to act it out? It’s fucking great!

I’m having such a strong reaction because what Randy
said is nearly exactly what I found usefl when I
finally got off heroin and methadone and stayed off.
Positive tribes! This place was the one place I ever
found that was useful to me and not judgmental and I
could talk to people who went through the same things
I did or were going through them and not be judged and
then my other positive tribes were mostly getting away
from drug addicts and going to yoga, taking classes at
school, being away from people who talk about drugs
all day and think about them. I needed all of this and
think I still do and yes sometime I did need to go to
a 12 step meeting to at least remind myself that maybe
I didn’t, because it wasn’t helping me, but at the
same time it did help me to at least sit there for a
hour and remind myself, most of all I needed a place
where I felt safe and not like I would be judged and
felt that people did really understand and care which
I found here.

Why would you possibly tell someone who has made so
much progress that everything they are doing is wrong,
that’s what I needed to say. Maybe it’s wrong for you,
right now and perfect for him. Maybe it will be right
for you tomorrow.

Look Carla, if I’ve upset you I apologize. For sure it’s totally great to
be
able to replace life-affirming behaviour for life-hating and it’s kept
many
people alive. If you need it then take it for you, I do the same when I
need
it. But it just bores the living shit out of me when people try to make
some
kind of religion out of this stuff. Like positivity is some kind of
panacea.
You can’t go on sugar-coating shit forever. People won’t swallow it and at
some point you have to expose yourself more. That’s all I’m saying.

love

Nick

Love to all
Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
[mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer
of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I
think being part of a tribe
ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga
or sex or music or what
ever soothes your soul is important too. Being
intelligent beings we tend to
pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do
and what does it matter?
Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to
meetings and therapy
and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT
every chance I get and
try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit.
I can’t allow myself to
obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry.
There may be something
to these levels for some people, I just know that
for me, after Ibogaine,
all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of
it. I like your twist
on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but
this “positive tribes”
stuff is bullshit to me…..
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA ,
churches, yoga class,
ceramics

class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list

our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ”
herd” or tribe.

…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with
everything. Can’t just let
you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse,
whatever happens. Has to be
going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I
hate that shit.

with love

Nick

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron(OT)
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:00:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, I don’t want to sound too harsh to you but you are starting to sound like a broken record. I am sure you will write the group with some apologetic diatrab.

caring professional have contacted you. Several of them . They have offered you  help. Some for free. Exactly what you have asked for. There are many good knowledgeable people who have offered you help on this list.

The question is then…

Why are you still singing “oh poor me ” instead of driving a few hours and getting started on the slow slow slow taper you want so badly?

Talk is cheap. If nothing changes, guess what … nothing will change. Act now. People die while waiting for a miracle to happen. If you pray to god to help you dig a hole, you had better bring a shovel.

Help has been offered. Now go and get it or be still.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care- On Violence & Fight Club
Date: December 10, 2004 at 5:34:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

For me, I don’t know think violence is necessary but
it’s very important
that one can feel its usual precursor – anger.
Anger’s the natural reaction
to some form of invasion and if it’s felt in the
body then you’ll feel more
whole. In bioenergetics anger is called the “healing
emotion.” It doesn’t
have to lead to violence. You can put anger out
without hitting people.

* Nick, I agree completely.  In fact, one of my
favourite ways to get anger/violence out of my system
is to get off my duff and dance all night.

– how can you really know yourself unless you’ve
been
in a fight?

Yeah, but you could say this about anything. It’s
just glamourizing
violence, which is attractive to me but I try to
move on from it.

* I would have to disagree…I don’t think Fight Club
glamourized violence at all.  I think the main point
was that human beings are repressing certain parts of
their nature.  This unhealthy repression can lead to
all manners of illness, both physical and mental.

I’d say capitalism is pretty close to
hunter-gatherer.

Huh?  I don’t see the similarity at
all….Hunter-gatherers were about community, shared
experiences, and survival of the clan- in essence, it
is a doctrine of inclusion; capitalism is about the
prosperity of the individual(or several individuals at
the top of the pyramid) , and usually at the expense
of the less fortunate- it is a doctrine of exclusion.

Julie

In the words of Tyler Durden: ” Man, I see in
fight
club the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever
lived.
I see all this potential, and I see squandering.
God
damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting
tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has
us
chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so
we
can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle
children
of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no
Great
War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a
spiritual
war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve
all
been raised on television to believe that one day
we’d
all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock
stars.
But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact.
And
we’re very, very pissed off. ”

__________________________________
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Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] they want to dull their senses? What nerve!
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:42:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

See what I’m talking about in KY? There is a huge problem down there. Coal mines and growing dope are all they have. AND an 80 mg. oxy goes for up to 100 dollars. The only methadone clinics are in Lexington and Louisville. More than a hundred miles from most of those places where the economy is severely busted. What are these people supposed to do? The waiting list for the only good clinic in Lexington is 2 years just to get in to see them. IBOGAINE   IBOGAINE    IBOGAINE           Randy

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:33:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
I believe I completly get your don’t lobotomize me with all your happy(only) horseshit stance.  However, for many currently here, I don’t know that balance is really the right word because they may be seeking something that can help keep them from slipping back into the worst downward spiral of a pit that drags them to a point of despair and destruction of self & others that maybe the likes have never been paralelled before. Is a yoga class or NA/AA group “balance” for all that? No way possible, but it it’s what keeps some from the pit…so be it. You also have to remember these people are physically & emotionally coming from a starting point of wore down, drained, not much left. This is much different than being addicted to a legal, available, inexpensive, socially tolerable thing as cigarettes.  But I do feel for your ordeal and possible pain.
People get what they need to get when they need to get it.  I understand out of all unpleasantness comes the chance for change and growth. For right now I’d rather pick daisies! For them that don’t like it.. well let me bend over and get this daisy.
On the supplementation I agree that there is a point of excess.  I also don’t care for the idea of taking any of the amino acids individually for any length of time.  I was taking the l-theanine for 4 days.  I got mild nose bleeding and my chiro said it was wacking out half my organs.  I stopped.  I know what I need is to get my endorphines going again.  I got my treadmill today.  I have been doing my cacoa and protein,carb fat drink which has got my seratonin much better.   I believe our food is our medicine, However, first your absorption has to be up to par and then there has to be nutrients and enzymes left in the (even healthy) foods we’re sold. That’s how it is(not) in the U.S. anyway. Eating healthy and being healthy is not common knowledge.  Unless one has ventured out to educate oneself this info is lacking in most.
I also think the addicted brain also has that compulsive component to it.  So if someone is being offered( the idea of )the magic elixir to make things right, many will go for it.  I think most of all we are looking for continued hope.
Julie, you have been writing some really good stuff.
Lee, I wanted to thank you for the book. I hold that psalm in very high regard.  It pretty much says it all.  Will pose other ?’s to you in the future.
Nick I don’t really know you or even have a good sense of you but I close with high regard and respect for you.                  Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 15:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of
SEROTONIN

> I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense.

I’m sure Francis and a few others might disagree.

> You have to allow the imbalance,
> allow yourself to get crazy.

Does this also apply to schizophrenics??  Or manic
depressives?

Hi Julie, the point is I’m not trying to create an all-encompassing belief
system, that is the prerogative of the fear-dominated mind. For sure,
containment can seem useful within the context of therapy. But who’s to say
what a schizophrenic really is, it’s just a label, and who’s to say what
this schizophrenic “needs.” To mood stabilize a schizophrenic with drugs and
then slowly reintegrate the shadow aspects of the ego in a controlled
therapeutic setting might be a strategy that makes sense…but, really, who
the fuck actually knows? Actually no-one.

> You can’t surrender your Ego to some higher
> power.You are your Ego. It’s just new age
> nonsense.

I too believe in the adage :”If you want to see God,
take a look in the mirror.”

Take a look into the unknown, more like. Take a look towards the North,
symbolic direction of chaos and the unknown.

“Good weather cometh from the North” – Job 37:22

with love

Nick

> You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by
> fiddling about with what you
> eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying
> to keep it all in
> control. Trying to decide how things should be.
> Better to check out why the
> levels are moving around, what the imbalance is
> seeking to create, seeking
> to express.

Sometimes levels will move around due to certain
predicatable behaviour patterns- diet, excessive drug
use, sleeping patterns, etc…  Do you really think
this is the mind seeking “chaos”?  More like the body
reacting to all the shit you’re doing to it…

> That’s why people
> who are into all the new age bullshit about
> balancing things are usually so
> unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need
> of unconsciousness for
> chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater
> awareness.

I agree…BUT, I don’t see any need to bash someone’s
personal belief system, especially if that belief
system is the ONE thing that might get them through
the day.  I don’t consider myself “New Agey”, but I
certainly wouldn’t emphatically dismiss everything
Francis has said.  Allowing your mind to have free
reign, especially during periods of stress or
unhappiness, might result in injury or harm to your
body.  I believe in exercising periodic self-control-
the chaos (which I also embrace) will naturally come
in waves throughout your life.  Life is a bit of a
pendulum, swinging through the darkness and the light-
both of which are NATURAL, and not to be feared.

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:30:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?language=english&type=&article_id=218392092

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392428
— Vigilius Haufniensis
<thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Online Neuroscience Tutorial
How does cocaine work? How about THC?
Amphetamines? X? Ketamine? How does Alzheimer’s
cause memory loss? Why do people with Parkinson’s
get the shakes?
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/10/22/05038/833
Membrane potentials, action potentials, and neurons
(Science)

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/12/6/145350/399
Second in a series : How neurons transmit
information (Science)

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=clear.gif

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:30:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This absolutly personal  and dedicate to someone in the list
Sometimes people are afraid to let go their Ego and to surrender to God.
They are afraid that God will reject them or will ask them to do more than
they can do.
First God never ask you to do  more than you can do.
To be a Saint “martyr” or a Saint ” victim ” is not for everyone.

Second God is perfectly merciful because is perfect.
You can read the life of any Saint and you will find that they ALL believe
in a
Good  Loving God always ready to forgive.at anytime, no matter who you are
and what you’ve done.

A lot of people have a complete rejection of  the notion of God and his
mercy.
They just have to monitor the way they think during the day and they will
find why they reject God.

Now you have people who feel that maybee it’s something : an higher power,
something….
They are ready to change but they are afraid to do the change.
They  feel they are stuck in something dirty, who stop them from moving.
Each time they try to move it’s painful. The dirt like a glue, bringing
them back.
They don’t realize that the dirty glue is already dry and breakable.
Only bad memories of things that they had done
and most of the time was done to them when they where still innocent and did
no right from wrong.
They can walk free now, and let go the remorse.
They will have to change some people around them
of bad influence. They will not, at the begining make big change in their
life
but a lot of small one adapting to the flow and  to their new beliefs
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “santaz A(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:21:28 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com>, <PhilPsych@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Online Neuroscience Tutorial
How does cocaine work? How about THC? Amphetamines? X? Ketamine? How does Alzheimer’s cause memory loss? Why do people with Parkinson’s get the shakes?
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/10/22/05038/833
Membrane potentials, action potentials, and neurons (Science)

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/12/6/145350/399
Second in a series : How neurons transmit information (Science)

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:12:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like that one – don’t they go together though i.e. the ego complementing the soul?

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Easing God Out

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

>
> > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibogaine
>
>
>
>
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>
>

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick
Date: December 10, 2004 at 3:48:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 16:59
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick

Hi Nick, I know you or your writing at least for years
here 🙂 so I have a much less angry response then I’d
have to someone else, because when you say something
in your face or high handed you stop in a few messages
or I think I at least believe I know you’re coming
from a positive place, sorry I didn’t mean to use the
word positive 😉

Why on earth would you tell anyone who has finally
made such huge progress forward that everything
they’re doing doesn’t matter? I’m sure you can argue
philosophy or meaning of life or whatnot and justify
all that, but then why does it even matter if you’re
on drugs in the first place, it doesn’t to anyone
except for yourself or your family does it. It isn’t
like I get the idea “god” cares or has some objection
to it.

You and Lee both have this same habit of coming on
like god above or below or in the mirror or anywhere
you want to see “god” let me rephrase that 😉 you
have this habit of coming on like you know everything
everyone has ever gone through and have all the
answers, then the next message you’ll reply that you
don’t really have any of the answers and I’m not even
knocking that because it’s like this entire group of
you two, Patrick, ibogaine project with Francis, a
whole lot of people who are saying the same thing in
different ways.

To give Lee a huge amount of respect, when you first
got here Lee you were totally full of yourself 😉 but
when people said that, instead of arguing with them
you thought about it and stopped 🙂 That made me
listen to what you might say a lot more and thanks for
that Lee because I enjoy your messages very much, you
changed your tone a lot  🙂

Nick, you and Lee are usually coming more from this
messiah tone, I think maybe it’s that neither one of
you has ever been a drug addict and yes I know this is
where you explain how we all have pain and you’re
fighting with cigarettes or whatnot 😉 but Lee
usually says things that are kind to people, while you
take something that Randy finds useful and knock it
all down. Why say that Nick?

Hi Carla,

Hey, what am i knocking down? I said all this pseudo-positivity stuff I find
a drag, that’s all. And what’s wrong with being the Messiah? I am the
fucking Messiah! What’s wrong with that? It’s a great trip being Jesus. All
my life I was immersed in Jesus – school, parents, the whole trip. Who
wouldn’t want to act it out? It’s fucking great!

I’m having such a strong reaction because what Randy
said is nearly exactly what I found usefl when I
finally got off heroin and methadone and stayed off.
Positive tribes! This place was the one place I ever
found that was useful to me and not judgmental and I
could talk to people who went through the same things
I did or were going through them and not be judged and
then my other positive tribes were mostly getting away
from drug addicts and going to yoga, taking classes at
school, being away from people who talk about drugs
all day and think about them. I needed all of this and
think I still do and yes sometime I did need to go to
a 12 step meeting to at least remind myself that maybe
I didn’t, because it wasn’t helping me, but at the
same time it did help me to at least sit there for a
hour and remind myself, most of all I needed a place
where I felt safe and not like I would be judged and
felt that people did really understand and care which
I found here.

Why would you possibly tell someone who has made so
much progress that everything they are doing is wrong,
that’s what I needed to say. Maybe it’s wrong for you,
right now and perfect for him. Maybe it will be right
for you tomorrow.

Look Carla, if I’ve upset you I apologize. For sure it’s totally great to be
able to replace life-affirming behaviour for life-hating and it’s kept many
people alive. If you need it then take it for you, I do the same when I need
it. But it just bores the living shit out of me when people try to make some
kind of religion out of this stuff. Like positivity is some kind of panacea.
You can’t go on sugar-coating shit forever. People won’t swallow it and at
some point you have to expose yourself more. That’s all I’m saying.

love

Nick

Love to all
Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
[mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer
of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I
think being part of a tribe
ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga
or sex or music or what
ever soothes your soul is important too. Being
intelligent beings we tend to
pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do
and what does it matter?
Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to
meetings and therapy
and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT
every chance I get and
try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit.
I can’t allow myself to
obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry.
There may be something
to these levels for some people, I just know that
for me, after Ibogaine,
all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of
it. I like your twist
on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but
this “positive tribes”
stuff is bullshit to me…..
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA ,
churches, yoga class,
ceramics

class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list

our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ”
herd” or tribe.

…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with
everything. Can’t just let
you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse,
whatever happens. Has to be
going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I
hate that shit.

with love

Nick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 3:31:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Easing God Out

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibogaine

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From: “santaz A\(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (d-finG e-Goo)
Date: December 10, 2004 at 3:21:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

non-ego

<psychology> The union of being and relation as
distinguished from, and contrasted with, the ego. See
Ego.

ego

Origin: L, I] The conscious and permanent subject of
all psychical experiences, whether held to be directly
known or the product of reflective thought; opposed to
non-ego.

Source: Websters Dictionary

(01 Mar 1998)

http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?H+reflex

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 2:44:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibogaine

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From: “santaz A\(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 2:40:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 12:25:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick !!
Always a pleasure .
You wrote :

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control,
* Exactly, that the point. If I know, that my brain can perform in a better
way, I will try to take over the control of my mind and not let my instinct
or my craving brain run the show.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy
* been there, done it , been there and guess what  no much positive  result.
Stopped my experiment and research .

You wrote :
You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

* “You are your Ego and if I uderstood you from previous E-mail : You are
God. ”
You are absolutely right , being a God, you can’t surrender your Ego, it
will be disastrous. Now if you are only a man, you can do what ever you want
with it. Clean it, downsize it, expande it till it blows , change it, play
with it, beat it or give it away to charity.Give it away to your girl friend
or boyfriend. Give it away to an Higher power, sell it for power , money or
for sex. It’s your Ego after all.!!

– ….It a new age nonsense
* (IMO)not realy new, been done for thousand of years by believers in the
Tao, Buddha Vishnou, Krisna and so non and so on… It could be a non sense
but as you know I believe in absurd..

-You wrote
– You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control.
* you absolutely right. You now I have a craving brain and strong instinct
so if I dont control my stupid mind I will eat t two pounds of fine
chocolate  that my mother send me, open a six pack an go hunting for a nice
tourist ass. That my Cave man brain talking: I am to instinctive for myself
and for people around me .
So now,   cave man no fool, knows tools and know better.

You wrote :
Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to create, seeking
to express.
* I agree, that the point,. Sometimes you need a good change of life, or
change an entire beliefs system, or some values , or to get some new  tools.

-Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion.
* I am not so sure about the expansion That your belief and I  absolutly
respect it…  I don’t grasp the concept of body.
Are you refering body mind and soul ? Expansion is another concept a bit
abstract for me now.

You wrote :
Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it.

*You are right one more time. I was reading the life of Padre Pio and Saint
Francis. It’s amazing how much they have to fight their own instinct, (will,
human craving brain). To surrender on a daily base to their God.
Trust me they have very good reason to get very pissed , specialy at their
own church.

Warriors, warriors we call ourselves.
We fight for splendid virtue,
for sublime wisdom,
therefore we call ourselves warrior.
Aunguttara Nikaya

You wrote :
That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy.
* Who said so ? Maybee they are in the ” new age bullshit” because they
where very unhealthy to start with ?/!.

Nick, you wrote :
They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

* Looking at the way people choose to govern themselve, their familly  and
their country
I realy believe that they actualy enjoy  and appreciate a lot the need for
unconsciousness an imbalance but they still are far from greatest awareness.
God Bless
Francis

– To surrender your will to a loving higher power.
Then you don’t have  to fight anymore : encrease level of
Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– Accept to be powerless on about everything 🙂
boyfriend, boss, familly member….
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class,
ceramics
class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe.
Less fears,
feeling of ” to be part of ” to be useful encrease level of  Serotonin
and
decrease Dopamine

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control, trying to make a balance in something which
seeks to go out of balance for a while. You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy. You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why
the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to create, seeking
to express. Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion. It’s not often asking to be balanced by mental activity and
fiddling about with its systems. Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it. That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

with love

Nick

– to get rid of the burdain of self guilt and self pity: confessions,
spiritual cleansing, inventory, amends.
encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
– humility
Getting read of the EGO . You don’t have to prove anything, to
argue, to
fight …encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
-Patience
Same here,
– Simplicity
If you   live in simplicity. You are killing the desire to
accumulate: less
dopamine and energy spent in the
” rat race ” Fewers enemies….more control on your life, more time
available to enjoy
– To live in the present. encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease
Dopamine. No more worries and repents .

– Doct ignorance : I know that I don’t know shit 🙂 so even this list
is
maybee wrong, maybee not.?/!
-meditation
-prayer
-comtemplation
– relaxation
– music ( relaxing)
-warm bath
– Special breathing
-biofeedback
-auto hypnosis
-hypnosis
-acupuncture
-massage
– Food ( absolutly natural avoid carbs and sugar )
– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of  tryptophan.
Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of endorphine. No more over
stimulation
– Mantra
– Taking care of a persone, animal or garden.
– sex
In general, avoid any form  of unecessary stress
I am serious 😉 you can teach your brain how to balance dopamine  with
serotonin and build a new ” landscape ”
Everything in this list  is working in  rebalancing chemical
deficiencies
God Bless
Francis


—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of
your
drug abuse

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 12:18:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ron,
Last night on abc primetime(i believe) they did a piece on youths committing suicide after ingesting paxil and zoloft.  The dr. expert who exposed the drug co’s lack of serious testing and renaming withdrawl, discontinuance something(i forgetand representing these families is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.  He is also involved with this lawsuit. He has a book called the antidepresant handbook. This one girl stopped in three months total, by cutting pills and then  liquifying them and using a dropper.  I do not personally know this guys reputation or protocol.  I googled his name and it came right up.  Maybe there’s something there to help you feel more comfortable with how you are going about helping yourself.  I am unfarmiliar with any pills other than the ones from the 60’s your basic ups and downers. After that I had no desire to mix pills with my methedone even though everyone else was.  So even though the pills discussed here may not be the ones you are on, i’m thinking there may be some info to assist you in your quest to help yourself. I know i just repeated myself but there’s a reason for that.
It also sounds like your fear is also of what is to come or pass.  And again if you are able to maintain for this minute, this hour, this day (which I believe you do) then your fear is an illusion and a hinderance to your mental, emotional, physical and spiritual state.  You need a plan that be it slow progress is still progress and be at peace with what you are doing (going in the right direction). Functioning from a more calm centered place.   I only have one more thing to say for now.  Sara Sara SaraSaraSAraSaRASARA.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick
Date: December 10, 2004 at 11:59:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick, I know you or your writing at least for years
here 🙂 so I have a much less angry response then I’d
have to someone else, because when you say something
in your face or high handed you stop in a few messages
or I think I at least believe I know you’re coming
from a positive place, sorry I didn’t mean to use the
word positive 😉

Why on earth would you tell anyone who has finally
made such huge progress forward that everything
they’re doing doesn’t matter? I’m sure you can argue
philosophy or meaning of life or whatnot and justify
all that, but then why does it even matter if you’re
on drugs in the first place, it doesn’t to anyone
except for yourself or your family does it. It isn’t
like I get the idea “god” cares or has some objection
to it.

You and Lee both have this same habit of coming on
like god above or below or in the mirror or anywhere
you want to see “god” let me rephrase that 😉 you
have this habit of coming on like you know everything
everyone has ever gone through and have all the
answers, then the next message you’ll reply that you
don’t really have any of the answers and I’m not even
knocking that because it’s like this entire group of
you two, Patrick, ibogaine project with Francis, a
whole lot of people who are saying the same thing in
different ways.

To give Lee a huge amount of respect, when you first
got here Lee you were totally full of yourself 😉 but
when people said that, instead of arguing with them
you thought about it and stopped 🙂 That made me
listen to what you might say a lot more and thanks for
that Lee because I enjoy your messages very much, you
changed your tone a lot  🙂

Nick, you and Lee are usually coming more from this
messiah tone, I think maybe it’s that neither one of
you has ever been a drug addict and yes I know this is
where you explain how we all have pain and you’re
fighting with cigarettes or whatnot 😉 but Lee
usually says things that are kind to people, while you
take something that Randy finds useful and knock it
all down. Why say that Nick?

I’m having such a strong reaction because what Randy
said is nearly exactly what I found usefl when I
finally got off heroin and methadone and stayed off.
Positive tribes! This place was the one place I ever
found that was useful to me and not judgmental and I
could talk to people who went through the same things
I did or were going through them and not be judged and
then my other positive tribes were mostly getting away
from drug addicts and going to yoga, taking classes at
school, being away from people who talk about drugs
all day and think about them. I needed all of this and
think I still do and yes sometime I did need to go to
a 12 step meeting to at least remind myself that maybe
I didn’t, because it wasn’t helping me, but at the
same time it did help me to at least sit there for a
hour and remind myself, most of all I needed a place
where I felt safe and not like I would be judged and
felt that people did really understand and care which
I found here.

Why would you possibly tell someone who has made so
much progress that everything they are doing is wrong,
that’s what I needed to say. Maybe it’s wrong for you,
right now and perfect for him. Maybe it will be right
for you tomorrow.

Love to all
Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
[mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer
of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I
think being part of a tribe
ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga
or sex or music or what
ever soothes your soul is important too. Being
intelligent beings we tend to
pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do
and what does it matter?
Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to
meetings and therapy
and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT
every chance I get and
try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit.
I can’t allow myself to
obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry.
There may be something
to these levels for some people, I just know that
for me, after Ibogaine,
all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of
it. I like your twist
on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but
this “positive tribes”
stuff is bullshit to me…..
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA ,
churches, yoga class,
ceramics

class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list

our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ”
herd” or tribe.

…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with
everything. Can’t just let
you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse,
whatever happens. Has to be
going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I
hate that shit.

with love

Nick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 11:30:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/10/04 10:54:32 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Actually written by ron I think.

thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know
there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using
previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing
dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant
step.

Anyway, there is nothing to be afraid of.  And bottom line if you really have
an adverse reaction to coming off benzodiazepines you can take a small amount
after/during iboga/ibogaine and then get treated again.  Sara is an expert at
these matters.  That being said I assume no liability for any of your actions
or hers.  Where is my modern hospital?  I would have kamlet, taub, glatt,
mallendi on staff among others.  You have identified your biggest problem.  It is
fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator of fear I know.  What
will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not afraid?  Kamlet
should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work togther.  Then
they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi iboga center. Sorry
just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 11:21:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 15:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of
SEROTONIN

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense.

I’m sure Francis and a few others might disagree.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy.

Does this also apply to schizophrenics??  Or manic
depressives?

Hi Julie, the point is I’m not trying to create an all-encompassing belief
system, that is the prerogative of the fear-dominated mind. For sure,
containment can seem useful within the context of therapy. But who’s to say
what a schizophrenic really is, it’s just a label, and who’s to say what
this schizophrenic “needs.” To mood stabilize a schizophrenic with drugs and
then slowly reintegrate the shadow aspects of the ego in a controlled
therapeutic setting might be a strategy that makes sense…but, really, who
the fuck actually knows? Actually no-one.

You can’t surrender your Ego to some higher
power.You are your Ego. It’s just new age
nonsense.

I too believe in the adage :”If you want to see God,
take a look in the mirror.”

Take a look into the unknown, more like. Take a look towards the North,
symbolic direction of chaos and the unknown.

“Good weather cometh from the North” – Job 37:22

with love

Nick

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by
fiddling about with what you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying
to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be.
Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is
seeking to create, seeking
to express.

Sometimes levels will move around due to certain
predicatable behaviour patterns- diet, excessive drug
use, sleeping patterns, etc…  Do you really think
this is the mind seeking “chaos”?  More like the body
reacting to all the shit you’re doing to it…

That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about
balancing things are usually so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need
of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater
awareness.

I agree…BUT, I don’t see any need to bash someone’s
personal belief system, especially if that belief
system is the ONE thing that might get them through
the day.  I don’t consider myself “New Agey”, but I
certainly wouldn’t emphatically dismiss everything
Francis has said.  Allowing your mind to have free
reign, especially during periods of stress or
unhappiness, might result in injury or harm to your
body.  I believe in exercising periodic self-control-
the chaos (which I also embrace) will naturally come
in waves throughout your life.  Life is a bit of a
pendulum, swinging through the darkness and the light-
both of which are NATURAL, and not to be feared.

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:56:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That thought went through my mind also ie reduction in relation to dosage, but I dont consider myself competent enough to comment on how much one should reduce by.

Ron, have you sought advice on the level you can reduce by? Maybe Dr Tom can advise you there?

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis wrote:
>… as for today i have broken a pill in
>half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
>a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

>… my mind set is this, break the physcial
>addiction and i will be free. the chemicals keep me from the
>power. help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

>don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

> —– Original Message —–
> From: Lee Albert
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

>would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
>is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
>Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.
>
>
>
> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
> He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
> He leadeth me beside the still waters.
> He restoreth my soul:
> he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

>
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
>enemies:
> Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
> Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
>life:
> and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
>
> Psalms 23:1-6
>
> I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
>was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
>other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
>violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
>help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
>by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
>SHINING in your face.
>
> When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
>were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

>top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

>cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

> not to mention the cure.
>
> You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
>get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
>live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
>higher power and it came through for me.
>
> You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
>entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

>in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
>the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

>refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
>is waiting for you.
>
> How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
>faith?
>
> The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
>works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
>
> Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

>experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
>they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

>is the key to success.
>
> I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
>talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

>So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
>got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
>with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
>Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
>will kill you.
>
> God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
>expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
>of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
>
> Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

>a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
>repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
>news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

>Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
>(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
>everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

>you.
>
> You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
>that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
>the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
>death.” with this:
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Blessings & Light
>
> Lee
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
>kind. i will ask. what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

>been in and what was it? were there problems? i think ibo would

>kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

>death
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Sara Glatt
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
>
>
> In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

>any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

>different addiction combination,
>
> Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
>of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
>symptoms.
>
> I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
>talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
>little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
>
> You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
>your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

>do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
>of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
>nights, by that time you can
>
> Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
>session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
>
> That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping. It

>isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
>massages, hot bath.
>
> I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
>done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
>or funds for such research,
>
> Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
>to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
>fun research is that?
>
> I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
>during detox. that what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
>everyone, it was just an option
>
> If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
>like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

>over dosed or under dosed or seizures.
>
>
>
> And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>——-
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> hi sara:
>
> can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
>you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
>benzos alone? scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

>) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

>see it as dangerous or simply difficult? it is beyond my realm
>of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
>
> LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
>far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
>offered advice and help.also apologies to others i may have
>offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
>bashing and the like.
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Sara Glatt
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
>
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Hi , I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
>Cannabis.
>
> Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
>and the mood.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—–
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
>occasioanlly benzoa. I can’t speak for her. Ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

>in your situation & how she did it?
>
> Sara – can you comment?
>
>
>
> There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

>a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
>them.
>
>
>
> Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?
>
>
>
> Albert
>
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
>has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
>with the ibo receptors, hence no go. i am trying to taper with
>the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
>few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
>proven to work. it is a long, arduous journey
>
> and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
>that may have fallen thru. a wise man told me in no uncertain
>terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
>credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
>this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement. i think

>i’m screwed, by my own hand. i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
>life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
>life. docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

>afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
>helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

>i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
>not on the list. it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
>father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
>can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
>ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
>forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
>i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
>over a year, the clock is ticking. i have a unique story, but
>it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest i think sara

>is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
>could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?(0t)
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
> I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
>you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

>clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
>most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
>something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
>likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
>inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
>have a connection to it by being here.
>
> BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
>to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

>options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
>your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
>
> Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
>couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
>
> Love & Light
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
>different countries. i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
>time under my belt. took some opiates after minor surgery,
>(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
>strung out for a short time. i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
>and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos. never had taken them in the
>old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
>withdrawals from them can be. just never read up on it and never
>knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
>up and the same old pattern set in so i started reading about
>these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
>and can lead to seizures. i read more and found out this stuff
>had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
>hell out of me. it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
>taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
>worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
>centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks. this appeared
>contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
>like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
>forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
>should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center. i then went
>to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me to put me on a
>slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
>seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
>considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation. i have spent the

>last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
>i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
>but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
>have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

>looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take
>anything else. my problem really started when i got away from 12
>step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

>i now have much to lose and am terrified. withdrawals from meth
>and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
>careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
>mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
>issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
>little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
>whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

>i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
>corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
>long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
>ventured i did not have a problem. one that he hasn’t bumped into

>yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
>will. ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
>from a lame student. i never thought i’d be fighting this war
>again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
>addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
>older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
>
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> A question:
>
>
>
> These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
>i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
>hardest and most deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>————————————————————–
>
> Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New
>Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even
>more fun!
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members
>of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—
>
> Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo!
>Messenger
>
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
>media available here:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:53:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

I am very proud of you man. Sounds like you are stepping forward. You dont sound too twisted to me. Just under the influence of a lot of fear. I think your mindset is pretty good right now and in the right direction.
Do you mind if I ask what timescale do you expect for your father? Or is it open ended?
My father passed away and frequently joins me in my sessions. He seems very pleased at my progress as I am sure your father too will be when he decides to go to the other side. I still think of my father most days and he passed on a few years before I started eboga about 6 years ago. Truth is I still feel him as being alive in some way. In many ways I know him better now that I ever did. I have been given a lot of insight. I feel a lot of love for him.
Sometimes we can only do one thing at a time but at least you are now doing something.
That idea that came up using the sandpaper sounds like a good one. Breaking a pill in half sounds groundbreaking.
Hang in there and keep going forward.
Carrying the prayer around with you is (imo) a beautiful & enriching thing to do.

Love & Light,
Lee

PS What is your dreamlife like these days? Do you remember them? Have you considered journalling? I get a lot of info & sometimes clear guidance from my dreams.

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:44:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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——————————————————————

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——————————————————————-

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
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——————————————————————-

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:40:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–

From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] they want to dull their senses? What nerve!
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:08:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

God, if I worked in a coal mine, I’m pretty sure I
would be chemically altered 24-7.  I have a
suggestion: let’s let Roger Alford assume the life of
a coal miner for one year, and then see how steadily
he can still ride his High Horse.

” Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his
moccassins…”

What an asshole…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:05:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense.

I’m sure Francis and a few others might disagree.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy.

Does this also apply to schizophrenics??  Or manic
depressives?

You can’t surrender your Ego to some higher
power.You are your Ego. It’s just new age
nonsense.

I too believe in the adage :”If you want to see God,
take a look in the mirror.”

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by
fiddling about with what you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying
to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be.
Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is
seeking to create, seeking
to express.

Sometimes levels will move around due to certain
predicatable behaviour patterns- diet, excessive drug
use, sleeping patterns, etc…  Do you really think
this is the mind seeking “chaos”?  More like the body
reacting to all the shit you’re doing to it…

That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about
balancing things are usually so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need
of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater
awareness.

I agree…BUT, I don’t see any need to bash someone’s
personal belief system, especially if that belief
system is the ONE thing that might get them through
the day.  I don’t consider myself “New Agey”, but I
certainly wouldn’t emphatically dismiss everything
Francis has said.  Allowing your mind to have free
reign, especially during periods of stress or
unhappiness, might result in injury or harm to your
body.  I believe in exercising periodic self-control-
the chaos (which I also embrace) will naturally come
in waves throughout your life.  Life is a bit of a
pendulum, swinging through the darkness and the light-
both of which are NATURAL, and not to be feared.

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] they want to dull their senses? What nerve!
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:01:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/state/10369617.htm
Coal industry trying to get a grip on drug abuse in mines

ROGER ALFORD

Associated Press

HAZARD, Ky. – Danny Osborne Jr. knows firsthand that drug abuse is a problem among coal miners in central Appalachia.
The West Virginia man, speaking at a meeting of coal industry representatives on Wednesday, said he abused OxyContin for years while working in mines in central Appalachia.
“When you’re on it, you don’t really think you’re impaired,” he said. “You go to work to make money so you can buy more.”
David Dye, acting director of the U.S. Mine Safety and Health Administration, said evidence suggests that drug abuse has become a serious safety issue in coal mines, but he said no one knows at this point how widespread the problem is.
snip-

They’ve got to be kidding, right? I mean, I can’t (and don’t really want to either for that matter) get through life without some sort of chemical “crutch” or psychic alteration(s) and I’ve never been in a freakin’ mine, much less worked in one. I can’t believe the prohibitionist maniacs, they completely blow my mind. Much more than any drugs use ever could, ever. Don’t get me wrong, I understand safety issues and all, but still, put me on an assembly-line like mining operation, I’m gonna want to get stoned.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 9:28:22 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 9:09:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I think being part of a tribe ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga or sex or music or what ever soothes your soul is important too. Being intelligent beings we tend to pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do and what does it matter? Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to meetings and therapy and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT every chance I get and try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit. I can’t allow myself to obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry. There may be something to these levels for some people, I just know that for me, after Ibogaine, all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of it. I like your twist on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but this “positive tribes” stuff is bullshit to me…..
> – to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class, ceramics
> class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
> our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe.
…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with everything. Can’t just let you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse, whatever happens. Has to be going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I hate that shit.

with love

Nick

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:24:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I think being part of a tribe ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga or sex or music or what ever soothes your soul is important too. Being intelligent beings we tend to pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do and what does it matter? Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to meetings and therapy and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT every chance I get and try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit. I can’t allow myself to obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry. There may be something to these levels for some people, I just know that for me, after Ibogaine, all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of it. I like your twist on things.            Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 7:45:17 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 08 December 2004 19:51
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN

De nada
So now you know 🙂
My two cents….

I have a serotonin deficiency too so I have a small list of tools
in my bag

– To surrender your will to a loving higher power.
Then you don’t have  to fight anymore : encrease level of
Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– Accept to be powerless on about everything 🙂
boyfriend, boss, familly member….
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class, ceramics
class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe.
Less fears,
feeling of ” to be part of ” to be useful encrease level of  Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control, trying to make a balance in something which
seeks to go out of balance for a while. You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy. You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to create, seeking
to express. Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion. It’s not often asking to be balanced by mental activity and
fiddling about with its systems. Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it. That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

with love

Nick

– to get rid of the burdain of self guilt and self pity: confessions,
spiritual cleansing, inventory, amends.
encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
– humility
Getting read of the EGO . You don’t have to prove anything, to
argue, to
fight …encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
-Patience
Same here,
– Simplicity
If you   live in simplicity. You are killing the desire to
accumulate: less
dopamine and energy spent in the
” rat race ” Fewers enemies….more control on your life, more time
available to enjoy
– To live in the present. encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease
Dopamine. No more worries and repents .

– Doct ignorance : I know that I don’t know shit 🙂 so even this list is
maybee wrong, maybee not.?/!
-meditation
-prayer
-comtemplation
– relaxation
– music ( relaxing)
-warm bath
– Special breathing
-biofeedback
-auto hypnosis
-hypnosis
-acupuncture
-massage
– Food ( absolutly natural avoid carbs and sugar )
– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of  tryptophan.
Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of endorphine. No more over
stimulation
– Mantra
– Taking care of a persone, animal or garden.
– sex
In general, avoid any form  of unecessary stress
I am serious 😉 you can teach your brain how to balance dopamine  with
serotonin and build a new ” landscape ”
Everything in this list  is working in  rebalancing chemical deficiencies
God Bless
Francis


—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of your
drug abuse

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 5:20:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 10, 2004 at 1:25:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

(cheeky bluddy delivery dude!! Get him sacked!)<

weeeelllll, isn’t tampering with and/or stealing mail a federal offense? I feel kinda bad for him, over a stupid videogame and the company is definitely having their people investigate with DHL, the company that originally shipped the two copies that vanished.
But wow what an amazing game, and no, no headphones on my x-box, at least not that I’ve yet found anyway, no outlet for anyway, which is weird come to think of it since I know the online feature, which I don’t yet have but want to christmas, hint, hint everybody, comes with a headset to talk to other players online, so there must be an outlet for them somewhere, right? Maybe I should take another look, eh?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

Wow, you lucky lucky Man!!  Yeh got the same problem with my computer, cept
for Doom 3 and probly Half Life and the new ones won’t play either.  Got to
get my computer freak friend onto it!!! I’m nearly done with Doom 2 setting
2!!!
Yes, I think I’d be rather irked to be awoken by rapid gunfire/rocket
launcher etc if I was trying to sleep!!!  Got head phones?? Heh
Kirsty
(cheeky bluddy delivery dude!! Get him sacked!)

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 2:49 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

the company sent me a copy of the game (Doom2) to review but my computer
doesn’t have the right card to play it. darn it. (I want to play HalfLife2
too, but again I don’t have the right graphics equipment, though my conputer

is big enoug, I think, to play the new games. I have an x-box, so can’t
justify investing in graphics cards and such for the PC too) and I didn’t
get much on trading it in either as it was a PC game so it wasn’t worth as
much in trade- and it’s the most expensive game out there right now, no?
But I did get Call of Duty delivered from the company this morning at 8AM,
due to the last two they sent me “disappearing” en route to HT office. You
should see the “signature” that “some people” think the delivery guy signed
on the package(s- two disappeared over the last couple weeks)- it’s a
straight line. It’s hilarious, and so obviously bullshit. No one signs like
that at the office, and no one signs the name the delivery guy wrote on the
reciept form, though it is a “real” name of someone at the office- just one
never used but one that the delivery guy actually knows about. So the game
company sent me a copy at home and I can’t wait to play it. But I have to
work first, or I feel guilty about playing videogames. Also V sleeps late
due to working late, so I can’t play in the morning hours anyway. Typing and

watching C-Span is bad enough, I don’t want to innundate her dream world
with the sounds of ultra-realistic WWII combat.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

Heh, I have to comment on the “inner thug” thing you wrote, tom….I’ve
been
playing the pc game “Doom 2”  and it’s so typically male……there’s
ammunition EVERYWHERE, more than you can use, but health??  Where dat be??
Heh
Does that sum most males up?
Kirsty
In jest.


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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (still ot but cheerful) Re: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not
Date: December 10, 2004 at 1:01:24 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh, I meant Doom 3, I had doom 2 a while ago- that’s old, right? Yeah, I like that one too.
Sorry, I”m a stoner and get my games confused sometimes.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Doom 2 is pretty good, I’m on my second time around on the harder setting….wow like another game entirely!  I bought Doom 3 but stoopid computer doesn’t have a gutsey enuff graphics card to cope with it. Looks awesome too.   Going to have to upgrade.
My most recent ex was quite violent when I met him, and it had a lot to do with street code too.  I think I taught him a lot while we were together….and he quit fighting, was quite calm etc, but still attracted violence to him.  There is a theory that it’s seen by others in our aura, and until we have dealt with reasons etc totally we’ll continue to attract it.
He’s doing great now btw, still addicted to opiates as am I, but he’ll deal with that in his own way. He probly couldn’t do Ibogaine because of his liver, but he’ll work it out I’m sure.
Sounds like you’ve come along way, that’s to be proud of for sure!
Get that Doom 2!!
Kirsty
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 12:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Kirsty, Doom is one of my favorites. I haven’t played Doom 2 yet. You never have enough ammo. Never, no matter what. How’s that for aggressive? Aggression is something I have to work on post Ibogaine. Violence and aggression are two different things. Aggression can lead to violence but that is a conscience decision for an individual. When I get aggressive it scares people because of my past but I am not in the least bit violent anymore. I fought in the past because I was living the street code and if I didn’t, esp. where I come from, I would have been plowed over so to speak. I’m not proud of that. It seems very Neanderthal looking back at it. I think Ibogaine and the process that I am going through has changed even that. I am so much more at peace now that I can ascertain the difference between violence and aggression. This stuff continues to amaze me.               Randy

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron(OT)
Date: December 10, 2004 at 12:03:06 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi kirsty:
a number of years ago, i was testing to try to get into the  professional school to become what i always wanted to be .  i was motivated and thought i could help people if i achieved my goal.  during the test,  i ran in to a group of test takers who were taking every one available , each trying to make high scores so they could go into the most lucrative profession that would ultimately be available to them..  they were not responding to a “calling” or trying to fill a life’s dream nor did they appear to have any altruistic motive for their ultimate decision, just looking for where they could make the most bucks, med school, vet school, dental school, law school, or whatever their scores and gpas would allow them to pursue.  i was 35,  most were in their 20’s.  i guess we all want to have good jobs and make comfortable livings but this mindset caught me by surprise.
in otherwords,  i was niave to all of this.  later in professional school, i ran into some of these same characters who were only there because they could not meet the qualifications to go elsewhere.  not all, but alot of them.  i am not saying their motivations were wrong,   but again, this mindset took me by surprise.  no one spoke of helping others, they all spoke of  money to be made .  i have since learned these same types have landed in all fields, including mine.  some have changed their ways and have gone on to help others and others just do enough to get by, never chancing anything or thinking outside the box. it seems like many docs in my little town fall in this latter categorie as do many in my profession.  i find the mindvox list invigorating b/c there are folks like dr. tom  and others unnamed  that are willing to try new things, push the envelope and listen to  and help pitiful guys like me who have pushed themselves to the brink of self destruction. godbless them, i wish there was another list of innovative physicians so i could seek them out.  unfortuantely, it seems there are regulations, laws, etc. that force them to remain anonymous unless you have the good fortune of bumping into one.  it’s not just medicine,  but that seems to be the focal point in this forum b/c we’re talking drugs.  i once went to a dentist who had me convinced all my fillings needed to come out and be replaced.  that was 20 yrs. ago , i d/n do what he suggested, went to my old dentist who told me all looked fine to him.  oh, one final point , when i refer to good docs, i d/n mean ones that do for me what i want them to do.  i’m not trained, have not gone thru the rigors of of med school and worked sleepless days like them or studied the works they have,  i’d  just like to find an open minded one,  that recognizes i have done somework to help myself , know my body and am not as dumb as my actions indicate . i’m working hard, or at least it feels like it by my discomfort, to over come this “problem” i have.   i’m not strong enough to do it alone and need medical assistance.  shame i came onto the list in the state i was in  doing the poor me game>   wish i could take that back, but it genreated some goood eye openers hurled at me.  good  luck in your search, apologies to the list for the diatribe,  hope the (OT)  tipped everyone off to delete this before wasting their time reading it. ron To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:18 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron

novel idea, might be worth a try, thanks jim and list for letting me hang around, ron.i was wrong to bad rap docs, there’s some good ones out there, just not in my town for my problem

Your town too huh? I’ve been trying to find a good doc for years and years…very very hard. Sure there are some good ones out there, but too few and far between.
I look forward to the era of enlightened doctors everywhere, and less of the God-ego types!
Kirsty

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not(OT) from ron
Date: December 9, 2004 at 11:10:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for letting me stay list

Ron, you are in no danger of being thrown off, so enjoy.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:41:07 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
hands are for holding and caressing, can’t take words back.
when i’m angry i feel bad whether i’m right or wrong so i try not
to get angry. ticked, but not gut churners. shame i can’t shake
benzos as easily.  thanks for letting me stay list, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Doom 2 is pretty good, I&#146;m on my second time around on the
harder setting&#133;.wow like another game entirely!  I bought Doom 3
but stoopid computer doesn&#146;t have a gutsey enuff graphics card to
cope with it. Looks awesome too.   Going to have to upgrade.

My most recent ex was quite violent when I met him, and it had a

lot to do with street code too.  I think I taught him a lot while
we were together&#133;.and he quit fighting, was quite calm etc, but
still attracted violence to him.  There is a theory that it&#146;s seen

by others in our aura, and until we have dealt with reasons etc
totally we&#146;ll continue to attract it.

He&#146;s doing great now btw, still addicted to opiates as am I, but

he&#146;ll deal with that in his own way. He probly couldn&#146;t do
Ibogaine because of his liver, but he&#146;ll work it out I&#146;m sure.

Sounds like you&#146;ve come along way, that&#146;s to be proud of for
sure!

Get that Doom 2!!

Kirsty

——————————————————————-

———–

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 12:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Kirsty, Doom is one of my favorites. I haven’t played Doom 2
yet. You never have enough ammo. Never, no matter what. How’s that

for aggressive? Aggression is something I have to work on post
Ibogaine. Violence and aggression are two different things.
Aggression can lead to violence but that is a conscience decision
for an individual. When I get aggressive it scares people because
of my past but I am not in the least bit violent anymore. I fought

in the past because I was living the street code and if I didn’t,
esp. where I come from, I would have been plowed over so to speak.

I’m not proud of that. It seems very Neanderthal looking back at
it. I think Ibogaine and the process that I am going through has
changed even that. I am so much more at peace now that I can
ascertain the difference between violence and aggression. This
stuff continues to amaze me.               Randy


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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 9, 2004 at 10:21:34 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not(OT) from ron
Date: December 9, 2004 at 9:41:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hands are for holding and caressing, can’t take words back.
when i’m angry i feel bad whether i’m right or wrong so i try not to get angry. ticked, but not gut churners. shame i can’t shake benzos as easily.  thanks for letting me stay list, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 5:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Doom 2 is pretty good, I’m on my second time around on the harder setting….wow like another game entirely!  I bought Doom 3 but stoopid computer doesn’t have a gutsey enuff graphics card to cope with it. Looks awesome too.   Going to have to upgrade.
My most recent ex was quite violent when I met him, and it had a lot to do with street code too.  I think I taught him a lot while we were together….and he quit fighting, was quite calm etc, but still attracted violence to him.  There is a theory that it’s seen by others in our aura, and until we have dealt with reasons etc totally we’ll continue to attract it.
He’s doing great now btw, still addicted to opiates as am I, but he’ll deal with that in his own way. He probly couldn’t do Ibogaine because of his liver, but he’ll work it out I’m sure.
Sounds like you’ve come along way, that’s to be proud of for sure!
Get that Doom 2!!
Kirsty
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 12:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Kirsty, Doom is one of my favorites. I haven’t played Doom 2 yet. You never have enough ammo. Never, no matter what. How’s that for aggressive? Aggression is something I have to work on post Ibogaine. Violence and aggression are two different things. Aggression can lead to violence but that is a conscience decision for an individual. When I get aggressive it scares people because of my past but I am not in the least bit violent anymore. I fought in the past because I was living the street code and if I didn’t, esp. where I come from, I would have been plowed over so to speak. I’m not proud of that. It seems very Neanderthal looking back at it. I think Ibogaine and the process that I am going through has changed even that. I am so much more at peace now that I can ascertain the difference between violence and aggression. This stuff continues to amaze me.               Randy

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 9, 2004 at 6:15:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, you lucky lucky Man!!  Yeh got the same problem with my computer, cept
for Doom 3 and probly Half Life and the new ones won’t play either.  Got to
get my computer freak friend onto it!!! I’m nearly done with Doom 2 setting
2!!!
Yes, I think I’d be rather irked to be awoken by rapid gunfire/rocket
launcher etc if I was trying to sleep!!!  Got head phones?? Heh
Kirsty
(cheeky bluddy delivery dude!! Get him sacked!)

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 2:49 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

the company sent me a copy of the game (Doom2) to review but my computer
doesn’t have the right card to play it. darn it. (I want to play HalfLife2
too, but again I don’t have the right graphics equipment, though my conputer

is big enoug, I think, to play the new games. I have an x-box, so can’t
justify investing in graphics cards and such for the PC too) and I didn’t
get much on trading it in either as it was a PC game so it wasn’t worth as
much in trade- and it’s the most expensive game out there right now, no?
But I did get Call of Duty delivered from the company this morning at 8AM,
due to the last two they sent me “disappearing” en route to HT office. You
should see the “signature” that “some people” think the delivery guy signed
on the package(s- two disappeared over the last couple weeks)- it’s a
straight line. It’s hilarious, and so obviously bullshit. No one signs like
that at the office, and no one signs the name the delivery guy wrote on the
reciept form, though it is a “real” name of someone at the office- just one
never used but one that the delivery guy actually knows about. So the game
company sent me a copy at home and I can’t wait to play it. But I have to
work first, or I feel guilty about playing videogames. Also V sleeps late
due to working late, so I can’t play in the morning hours anyway. Typing and

watching C-Span is bad enough, I don’t want to innundate her dream world
with the sounds of ultra-realistic WWII combat.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

Heh, I have to comment on the “inner thug” thing you wrote, tom….I’ve
been
playing the pc game “Doom 2”  and it’s so typically male……there’s
ammunition EVERYWHERE, more than you can use, but health??  Where dat be??
Heh
Does that sum most males up?
Kirsty
In jest.


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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not
Date: December 9, 2004 at 6:12:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Doom 2 is pretty good, I’m on my second time around on the harder setting….wow like another game entirely!  I bought Doom 3 but stoopid computer doesn’t have a gutsey enuff graphics card to cope with it. Looks awesome too.   Going to have to upgrade.
My most recent ex was quite violent when I met him, and it had a lot to do with street code too.  I think I taught him a lot while we were together….and he quit fighting, was quite calm etc, but still attracted violence to him.  There is a theory that it’s seen by others in our aura, and until we have dealt with reasons etc totally we’ll continue to attract it.
He’s doing great now btw, still addicted to opiates as am I, but he’ll deal with that in his own way. He probly couldn’t do Ibogaine because of his liver, but he’ll work it out I’m sure.
Sounds like you’ve come along way, that’s to be proud of for sure!
Get that Doom 2!!
Kirsty
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, 10 December 2004 12:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not

Kirsty, Doom is one of my favorites. I haven’t played Doom 2 yet. You never have enough ammo. Never, no matter what. How’s that for aggressive? Aggression is something I have to work on post Ibogaine. Violence and aggression are two different things. Aggression can lead to violence but that is a conscience decision for an individual. When I get aggressive it scares people because of my past but I am not in the least bit violent anymore. I fought in the past because I was living the street code and if I didn’t, esp. where I come from, I would have been plowed over so to speak. I’m not proud of that. It seems very Neanderthal looking back at it. I think Ibogaine and the process that I am going through has changed even that. I am so much more at peace now that I can ascertain the difference between violence and aggression. This stuff continues to amaze me.               Randy

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Origins of Eboga – Any dates??
Date: December 9, 2004 at 4:11:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jasen.
I am trying to back date with the pygmies and I guess thats probably near impossible as I imagine theirs is an oral tradition. I get the best i can hope for is some pygmy elder saying that in their tradition it dates back to …..
Glad to hear you are doing well.
Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Lee,
The Bwiti have used it for about 4 hundred years.
Smiles Jasen.
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: woensdaThe g 8 december 2004 17:57
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Origins of Eboga – Any dates??

Hi list,

I am trying (weakly) to ascertain the earliest known use of eboga among the pygmies.

Does anyone have any insight on this i.e. knowledge of any good documentation on the subject.

Answers much appreciated.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Origins of Eboga – Any dates??
Date: December 9, 2004 at 1:18:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,
The Bwiti have used it for about 4 hundred years.
Smiles Jasen.
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: woensdaThe g 8 december 2004 17:57
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] Origins of Eboga – Any dates??

Hi list,

I am trying (weakly) to ascertain the earliest known use of eboga among the pygmies.

Does anyone have any insight on this i.e. knowledge of any good documentation on the subject.

Answers much appreciated.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 9, 2004 at 1:06:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You need headphones Preston,………. headphones and a new graphics card – try and ‘charm’ someone to give them to you  – I have faith ,
all the best Sjonnygee…….

>From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

>Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:48:47 -0500

>

>the company sent me a copy of the game (Doom2) to review but my

>computer doesn’t have the right card to play it. darn it. (I want to

>play HalfLife2 too, but again I don’t have the right graphics

>equipment, though my conputer is big enoug, I think, to play the new

>games. I have an x-box, so can’t justify investing in graphics cards

>and such for the PC too) and I didn’t get much on trading it in

>either as it was a PC game so it wasn’t worth as much in trade- and

>it’s the most expensive game out there right now, no?

>But I did get Call of Duty delivered from the company this morning

>at 8AM, due to the last two they sent me “disappearing” en route to

>HT office. You should see the “signature” that “some people” think

>the delivery guy signed on the package(s- two disappeared over the

>last couple weeks)- it’s a straight line. It’s hilarious, and so

>obviously bullshit. No one signs like that at the office, and no one

>signs the name the delivery guy wrote on the reciept form, though it

>is a “real” name of someone at the office- just one never used but

>one that the delivery guy actually knows about. So the game company

>sent me a copy at home and I can’t wait to play it. But I have to

>work first, or I feel guilty about playing videogames. Also V sleeps

>late due to working late, so I can’t play in the morning hours

>anyway. Typing and watching C-Span is bad enough, I don’t want to

>innundate her dream world with the sounds of ultra-realistic WWII

>combat.

>

>

>Peace and love,

>Preston Peet

>

>”Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

>often mistaken for madness”

>Richard Davenport-Hines

>

>ptpeet@nyc.rr.com

>Editor http://www.drugwar.com

>Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”

>Cont. High Times mag/.com

>Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com

>Columnist New York Waste

>Etc.

>

>

>—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk”

><captkirk@free.net.nz>

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:08 PM

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

>

>

>>Heh, I have to comment on the “inner thug” thing you wrote,

>>tom….I’ve been

>>playing the pc game “Doom 2”  and it’s so typically

>>male……there’s

>>ammunition EVERYWHERE, more than you can use, but health??  Where

>>dat be??

>>Heh

>>Does that sum most males up?

>>Kirsty

>>In jest.

>>

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>>

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>

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]addiction & nutrition
Date: December 9, 2004 at 11:57:20 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A one step program to get your rat addicted :

A number of studies have been carried out in rats to look at processed foods and addiction. Dr. Ann Kelley, professor of neuroscience at Wisconsin University, together with Matthew Will, has been studying rats and diet for a number of years. One study found that a high-fat diet appears to alter the brain biochemistry in a similar way to drugs such as morphine. They say this is due to the release of opioids – chemicals in the brain – that reduce the feeling of being full.

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/health_news/190703addic.html

Is junk food addictive ?/ !

see this advice:
From the American fancy  mouse and rat association
A Kid’s Guide To Basic Pet Rat & Mouse Care
Junk food is a no no! Rats and mice can get sick from eating junk food even though they love the taste. Never let your critter eat candy, cookies, chips, soda, gum, chocolate, or cheese. If it’s not good for you, it’s not good for your pet.
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
F

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 9, 2004 at 10:58:06 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and i thought i’d aced driver’s ed. no doubt my self esteem is tied into this relapse or whatever it’s called.  seems like hell to me and i didn’t pick a good time to visit.  i am overwhelmed that members of the list take time to figure out what’s up with me, even though i’m beating that same drum again and again.  if i  get well, maybe i can return the favor.  i long to feel god’s protective prescence in my life. or whatever  it’s called. thanks to all. dr. t… what’s this treatment manual? ron
—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <RonDavis[rwd3@cox.net]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

Ron:

I don’t want you to “punch out”, Ron, and everytime I box the ears off
someone, that catgut stitching is really messy and the screams drive away
my new patients.  The boxing analogy does work here because if you got
into a boxing workout, you would enjoy the self esteem repair and
anti-depression that would follow. The punching and blocking impacts (head
shots unacceptable) would help clear your mind of inner conversations with
ghosts and self torment. Use these combat workouts for slow and steady
progress into a better fitness level even while you use the benzos, and
watch your fears and stress levels melt right down. Sort of like, get in
touch with your “inner-thug”! For whatever reason, men are just wired for
a rough and violent daily world, both giving it out and getting it back.
Damn few shrinks get that. Even fewer pharmacists. Put aging men at a
desk, on the bench or in some bed, and watch the predictable psychological
decline into depression and early death.

The self tests posted by Francis are interesting. How do you rate on
those? I’ll contribute some prescription ideas for those, when I get a
chance, and other providers have ideas to add as well.  I hope Frank can
correlate these and then the suggestions can make their way into Howard’s
great treatment manual.

Meanwhile, back to Ron…. you sound really worried about what other
people think of you, and convinced that you are a bad, or not very good
guy. That misunderstanding of who you are isn’t a drug or nutrient
problem,except indirectly, it’s a spiritual and philosophical challenge.
Talk to the man in the mirror and convince him that he is a piece of God,
deserving the comfort and health of any of God’s blessing. What others
think of you is just none of your business. It takes most of us many
decades to unlearn the crap teaching us the opposite of this, and most
never do.

The rest of us are usually caught in our own hustle, so how could our
opinions of you be even partly well-informed? I’m not alone in noticing
that the focus on your inner light and power is where the rubber meets the
road in this journey toward awareness. Bwiti puts you into more intimate
and honest contact with your immortal Self than you have ever been. The
mindvox list folks will gladly help and inspire you, but you’re driving
the bus, man. Nice scenery along here, innit?

Dr. Tom

easy to box the ears off a neophyte.  i suspect  beneveolence as i perceive
a healer. good timingbespoke, but he may want me out say the word tom and
i’ll punch out, ron

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 9, 2004 at 10:45:40 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

strange how i glossed over that benzo warning.  i’m as dumb as i thought i was, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

i’m losing now, it can’t hurt. thanks for your concern , ron
—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

Hi.  I certainly fit this GABA deficient profile as well – and I have no doubt that opiates help me control some of this.  But when I was “clean” for a couple of years, I had excellent results from zoloft – 50 mgs in the morning, and one klonopin at night.  Before starting that regimen I could hardly drive or go to work.  It really amazed me how much the zoloft helped.  Of course getting off zoloft for me is as tough as the benzos.  (Who says SSRI’s aren’t addictive – what a joke.)
To Ron – I only take a small amount of klonopin, but I am still very much aware of how hard reducing the dose is, so I sympathize.  I had heard over and over that benzos were always going to be the hardest to get off of, and I read on the net about one person who said they would take just one pill and brush it across a piece of sandpaper.  Each week they would increase the “brush” so that the next week it was two brushes, etc.  That’s what I’ve been doing, more or less, as I want to be free of these prescription meds myself.
Best wishes to all..                                                                                                       Sandy

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for  GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Tue,  7 Dec 2004 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>

>

>

>This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&amp;sc=I100322I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas? —

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 9, 2004 at 10:37:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Martee:
thanks for taking the time to write me.  unfortunately, i can’t blame this one on my diet as i eat well. i am a diet freak.  problem is this corner i’m in and how i got here again and can i get out in one piece without causing anyone else to suffer. anyone who takes the time to throw something my way is not perceived by me as preaching or harping.  i appreciate them taking the time to respond. thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: m.finman
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 4:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

Hi Ron,
Just to reiterate, I think the brushing pills on sandpaper thing is one of the most brilliant ways of reducing meds I have ever heard.  If it was me who got this info, I’d be doing a jig and thanking God for sending this tool my way.  I believe you need to fine tune your perception to help your mindset.  Instead of i’m losing, how about, for right now (this minute, hour second) I am maintaining.  Instead of it can’t hurt, how about this could really help(work) things move along.  Oh yeh oh yeh oh yeh(insert jig).   Not to take light of your situation but are you eating anywhere near properly or are you living on your average junky american void of nutrients and enzymes diet.  If you don’t feed your body you don’t feed your brain and it’s difficult to think straight or emotionally maintain.  I notice how your moods vacilate (not that you don’t have  more than enough reasons) and wonder if it is somehow made worse by lack of good food.  For me personally I can go from total calm to can’t concentrate or process to wanting to get knife twisting nasty on someone.  Since by nature I am not a violent person I would turn that energy inward and become depressed or self destructive.   It took me a long time to realize the part food played in my sanity.
If you don’t “get” this.  Just put it away for a rainy day and when the time is right it may hit you.
I’m not harping, not preaching, I’m just saying!
Respectfully,
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

i’m losing now, it can’t hurt. thanks for your concern , ron
—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

Hi.  I certainly fit this GABA deficient profile as well – and I have no doubt that opiates help me control some of this.  But when I was “clean” for a couple of years, I had excellent results from zoloft – 50 mgs in the morning, and one klonopin at night.  Before starting that regimen I could hardly drive or go to work.  It really amazed me how much the zoloft helped.  Of course getting off zoloft for me is as tough as the benzos.  (Who says SSRI’s aren’t addictive – what a joke.)
To Ron – I only take a small amount of klonopin, but I am still very much aware of how hard reducing the dose is, so I sympathize.  I had heard over and over that benzos were always going to be the hardest to get off of, and I read on the net about one person who said they would take just one pill and brush it across a piece of sandpaper.  Each week they would increase the “brush” so that the next week it was two brushes, etc.  That’s what I’ve been doing, more or less, as I want to be free of these prescription meds myself.
Best wishes to all..                                                                                                       Sandy

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for  GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Tue,  7 Dec 2004 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>

>

>

>This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&amp;sc=I100322I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas? —

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) doom2 was- Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 9, 2004 at 8:48:47 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the company sent me a copy of the game (Doom2) to review but my computer doesn’t have the right card to play it. darn it. (I want to play HalfLife2 too, but again I don’t have the right graphics equipment, though my conputer is big enoug, I think, to play the new games. I have an x-box, so can’t justify investing in graphics cards and such for the PC too) and I didn’t get much on trading it in either as it was a PC game so it wasn’t worth as much in trade- and it’s the most expensive game out there right now, no?
But I did get Call of Duty delivered from the company this morning at 8AM, due to the last two they sent me “disappearing” en route to HT office. You should see the “signature” that “some people” think the delivery guy signed on the package(s- two disappeared over the last couple weeks)- it’s a straight line. It’s hilarious, and so obviously bullshit. No one signs like that at the office, and no one signs the name the delivery guy wrote on the reciept form, though it is a “real” name of someone at the office- just one never used but one that the delivery guy actually knows about. So the game company sent me a copy at home and I can’t wait to play it. But I have to work first, or I feel guilty about playing videogames. Also V sleeps late due to working late, so I can’t play in the morning hours anyway. Typing and watching C-Span is bad enough, I don’t want to innundate her dream world with the sounds of ultra-realistic WWII combat.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

Heh, I have to comment on the “inner thug” thing you wrote, tom….I’ve been
playing the pc game “Doom 2”  and it’s so typically male……there’s
ammunition EVERYWHERE, more than you can use, but health??  Where dat be??
Heh
Does that sum most males up?
Kirsty
In jest.


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Deborah self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of yourdrug abuse
Date: December 9, 2004 at 7:51:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Jon!

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From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Deborah self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of yourdrug abuse
Date: December 9, 2004 at 6:09:17 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Francis..
Dr. Tom, are you online?
Best wishes,
deborah

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:off topic but……..maybe not
Date: December 9, 2004 at 5:59:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kirsty, Doom is one of my favorites. I haven’t played Doom 2 yet. You never have enough ammo. Never, no matter what. How’s that for aggressive? Aggression is something I have to work on post Ibogaine. Violence and aggression are two different things. Aggression can lead to violence but that is a conscience decision for an individual. When I get aggressive it scares people because of my past but I am not in the least bit violent anymore. I fought in the past because I was living the street code and if I didn’t, esp. where I come from, I would have been plowed over so to speak. I’m not proud of that. It seems very Neanderthal looking back at it. I think Ibogaine and the process that I am going through has changed even that. I am so much more at peace now that I can ascertain the difference between violence and aggression. This stuff continues to amaze me.               Randy

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 9, 2004 at 5:11:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron,
Just to reiterate, I think the brushing pills on sandpaper thing is one of the most brilliant ways of reducing meds I have ever heard.  If it was me who got this info, I’d be doing a jig and thanking God for sending this tool my way.  I believe you need to fine tune your perception to help your mindset.  Instead of i’m losing, how about, for right now (this minute, hour second) I am maintaining.  Instead of it can’t hurt, how about this could really help(work) things move along.  Oh yeh oh yeh oh yeh(insert jig).   Not to take light of your situation but are you eating anywhere near properly or are you living on your average junky american void of nutrients and enzymes diet.  If you don’t feed your body you don’t feed your brain and it’s difficult to think straight or emotionally maintain.  I notice how your moods vacilate (not that you don’t have  more than enough reasons) and wonder if it is somehow made worse by lack of good food.  For me personally I can go from total calm to can’t concentrate or process to wanting to get knife twisting nasty on someone.  Since by nature I am not a violent person I would turn that energy inward and become depressed or self destructive.   It took me a long time to realize the part food played in my sanity.
If you don’t “get” this.  Just put it away for a rainy day and when the time is right it may hit you.
I’m not harping, not preaching, I’m just saying!
Respectfully,
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

i’m losing now, it can’t hurt. thanks for your concern , ron
—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

Hi.  I certainly fit this GABA deficient profile as well – and I have no doubt that opiates help me control some of this.  But when I was “clean” for a couple of years, I had excellent results from zoloft – 50 mgs in the morning, and one klonopin at night.  Before starting that regimen I could hardly drive or go to work.  It really amazed me how much the zoloft helped.  Of course getting off zoloft for me is as tough as the benzos.  (Who says SSRI’s aren’t addictive – what a joke.)
To Ron – I only take a small amount of klonopin, but I am still very much aware of how hard reducing the dose is, so I sympathize.  I had heard over and over that benzos were always going to be the hardest to get off of, and I read on the net about one person who said they would take just one pill and brush it across a piece of sandpaper.  Each week they would increase the “brush” so that the next week it was two brushes, etc.  That’s what I’ve been doing, more or less, as I want to be free of these prescription meds myself.
Best wishes to all..                                                                                                       Sandy

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for  GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Tue,  7 Dec 2004 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>

>

>

>This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&amp;sc=I100322I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas? —

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] -ot-
Date: December 9, 2004 at 4:26:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

rotten.com has arrived! Or Iguess has been here and outed itself? 🙂
Crack problem? 🙂

Patrick you have the nicest friends 🙂 You should dose all of rotten 🙂
🙂 🙂

.:vector:.

— Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Re-Elect Bush/Cheney 08 Or Else <reelectbushcheney2008@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] -ot-
Date: December 9, 2004 at 2:19:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron
Date: December 9, 2004 at 2:18:14 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

novel idea, might be worth a try, thanks jim and list for letting me hang around, ron.i was wrong to bad rap docs, there’s some good ones out there, just not in my town for my problem

Your town too huh? I’ve been trying to find a good doc for years and years…very very hard. Sure there are some good ones out there, but too few and far between.
I look forward to the era of enlightened doctors everywhere, and less of the God-ego types!
Kirsty

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron
Date: December 8, 2004 at 11:00:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

novel idea, might be worth a try, thanks jim and list for letting me hang around, ron.i was wrong to bad rap docs, there’s some good ones out there, just not in my town for my problem
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron

Hi Ron,

I don’t know how you would feel about this but you may want to give it a try.  Go to a doc and tell him that you had two seziures and want to know what the hell to do.  When he ask if you taking any drugs tell him yea Xanax.  Let him tell you that might be causeing the seziures and maybe he may taper you off.  Docs are all different, you may run into a good one who cares and will taper you off.  If you have insurance go doctor shopping sooner or later you will find one who cares.  Just a suggestion, hope I helped

Best of Luck,

– JIM

knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Try finding Florida’s Complaint form, I have found
that most doctors want to avoid the paperwork.
Conversation goes like this:
doc, I’d like to taper off my xanexanexSorry can’t do
that.

I’m not a doctor but can’t you like have seizers and
stuff if not tapered off?
*Yes. but you are asking for a controlled substance.

Hypothetically speaking, is their a complaint process
because no offense but your dicidecisionms
inhuinhumaned where do I go for this process.
*(the doc I saw said): DEA DEAl-lolck mate)

So your telling me that thietheir’t a state agency
that overoversee’s prescription writing practices of
doctors?
*well uhh.uhh
etc…
——
If that doesn’t work, some craccrackheadkie could find
some for you. BenzBenzo’s a bitch to kick mahnmahn
hope you can find a way to taper. I don’t think you
have to suffer unless you feel you have to. Good
luck.

— Ron Davis wrote:
> as an aside, no help from any local
addiaddictionologistfor benzbenzosd’smd’sten 25
seconds, then set up a
> treatment protocol. they follow the book.
i’mi’mscrewed on the benzbenzoser. must suffer,
we’ewe’er
> people you know. i’vei’veen them the lancet,
> ashtashtonu name it, it’s thiethierway or the
> highway. ronron>
>

___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 10:55:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m losing now, it can’t hurt. thanks for your concern , ron
—– Original Message —–
From: booker w
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

Hi.  I certainly fit this GABA deficient profile as well – and I have no doubt that opiates help me control some of this.  But when I was “clean” for a couple of years, I had excellent results from zoloft – 50 mgs in the morning, and one klonopin at night.  Before starting that regimen I could hardly drive or go to work.  It really amazed me how much the zoloft helped.  Of course getting off zoloft for me is as tough as the benzos.  (Who says SSRI’s aren’t addictive – what a joke.)
To Ron – I only take a small amount of klonopin, but I am still very much aware of how hard reducing the dose is, so I sympathize.  I had heard over and over that benzos were always going to be the hardest to get off of, and I read on the net about one person who said they would take just one pill and brush it across a piece of sandpaper.  Each week they would increase the “brush” so that the next week it was two brushes, etc.  That’s what I’ve been doing, more or less, as I want to be free of these prescription meds myself.
Best wishes to all..                                                                                                       Sandy

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for  GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Tue,  7 Dec 2004 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>

>

>

>This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&amp;sc=I100322I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas? —

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 8, 2004 at 9:08:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, I have to comment on the “inner thug” thing you wrote, tom….I’ve been
playing the pc game “Doom 2”  and it’s so typically male……there’s
ammunition EVERYWHERE, more than you can use, but health??  Where dat be??
Heh
Does that sum most males up?
Kirsty
In jest.


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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 8, 2004 at 6:26:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick !1
I respect you idea

How do you ever know anything? The deeper you look into yourself, the less
you know. The mind builds castles onto thin air, assumptions upon
assumptions. What to do!?

In fact, I never found realy much within myself, only a feeling of ” deja vu
” in few circomstances.
I have some premonitions too sometimes. So I started to believe something
else was within me  and out there.Then I started to search everywhere.
While I was searching I never realy had peace. It took the despair of
addiction and a spiritual awakening to get an
understanding and a sens of purpose in my life. Addiction teach me pain,
humiliation, sadeness, despair, tolerance, understanding. And that was good.
I am not searching anymore . My faith is clear and strong.I just have now
to live in harmony with my beliefs and this is a daily game, sometimes I
missed my goal sometimes not.
God Bless
Francis

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 8, 2004 at 11:12:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

doc, haven’t had a chance to assimilate Francis’ deal, appreciate your advice and box away when needed.  i’m here for help and glad  the list let me stay. actually i’m a cat 5 cyclist but benzos  screw with my goals and workouts and frequency. all help appreciated. thanks, ron
—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <RonDavis[rwd3@cox.net]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:16 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care

Ron:

I don’t want you to “punch out”, Ron, and everytime I box the ears off
someone, that catgut stitching is really messy and the screams drive away
my new patients.  The boxing analogy does work here because if you got
into a boxing workout, you would enjoy the self esteem repair and
anti-depression that would follow. The punching and blocking impacts (head
shots unacceptable) would help clear your mind of inner conversations with
ghosts and self torment. Use these combat workouts for slow and steady
progress into a better fitness level even while you use the benzos, and
watch your fears and stress levels melt right down. Sort of like, get in
touch with your “inner-thug”! For whatever reason, men are just wired for
a rough and violent daily world, both giving it out and getting it back.
Damn few shrinks get that. Even fewer pharmacists. Put aging men at a
desk, on the bench or in some bed, and watch the predictable psychological
decline into depression and early death.

The self tests posted by Francis are interesting. How do you rate on
those? I’ll contribute some prescription ideas for those, when I get a
chance, and other providers have ideas to add as well.  I hope Frank can
correlate these and then the suggestions can make their way into Howard’s
great treatment manual.

Meanwhile, back to Ron…. you sound really worried about what other
people think of you, and convinced that you are a bad, or not very good
guy. That misunderstanding of who you are isn’t a drug or nutrient
problem,except indirectly, it’s a spiritual and philosophical challenge.
Talk to the man in the mirror and convince him that he is a piece of God,
deserving the comfort and health of any of God’s blessing. What others
think of you is just none of your business. It takes most of us many
decades to unlearn the crap teaching us the opposite of this, and most
never do.

The rest of us are usually caught in our own hustle, so how could our
opinions of you be even partly well-informed? I’m not alone in noticing
that the focus on your inner light and power is where the rubber meets the
road in this journey toward awareness. Bwiti puts you into more intimate
and honest contact with your immortal Self than you have ever been. The
mindvox list folks will gladly help and inspire you, but you’re driving
the bus, man. Nice scenery along here, innit?

Dr. Tom

easy to box the ears off a neophyte.  i suspect  beneveolence as i perceive
a healer. good timingbespoke, but he may want me out say the word tom and
i’ll punch out, ron

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: remove from mailing list
Date: December 8, 2004 at 9:17:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Fosterwash, I think you’re doing it wrong…you have to go to the actual mindvox website, find this group and take yourself off.
Good luck, and goodbye
Kirsty
From: Fosterwash14@aol.com [mailto:Fosterwash14@aol.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 9 December 2004 9:57 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: remove from mailing list

please remove me from mailing list
thank you
rof

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Test for Gaba , serotonine and Endorphine deficiencies at the root of addiction
Date: December 8, 2004 at 5:26:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SELF TEST FOR CATHECOLAMINE DEFICIENCY

> Second part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing
self TEST for catecholamine deficienciy as root of your drug abuse

– Is either cocaine or amphetanine your drug of choice? if yes 5 points.
………………

– Do you smoke cigarettes, or use nicotine in another form, such as
smokeless tobacco ?
if one pack a day or less one point. If 2 pack a day, 2 points,. If three or
more pack a day, 3 points.  ………….

– If you have used marijuana, doesit excite you or have a “speedy” effect on
you ? If yes 2 points

-Is there history of mania in your family ? If yes 2 points

-Is ther a history of depression in your family ? If yes 2 points

-Do you often experience tiredness, loss of energy, or an inability to feel
pleasure ? If yes, 3 points

-Are you thrill- seeker or risk taker ? If, yes 3 points

– Do you respond positively to tricyclic anti depressant drugs, such as
tofranil, blavil, endep, or pamelor ?
If yes, 5 points

-Do you respond positively to prescription drugs like : ritalin, cylere,
adderall, or methamphetamine ?
If yes, 5 points

TOTAL
Total of 11 to 14 points , you are probably catecholamine deficient.
Total of 15 or more, you are very probably catecholamine deficient

> If you have scored either probable or very probable, the essential
nutrients
> you should take to corrected this deficiency are listed below. Take them
as
> soon is possible. This should reduce or eliminate your substance urges and
> others symptoms in 24 to seventy-two hours

ESSENTAL NUTRIENTS
TYROSINE up to 1.500 mg 3 timesdaily, 1 hour before meals
L-GLUTAMINE  up to 1.000 mg 3 time daily, 1 hour before meals.
B-COMPLEX VITAMINE CAPSULE  at least one capsule 3 times daily with tyrosine
and glutamine
VITAMINEC  at least 500mg 3 times a day

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
> MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
> Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
> tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
> Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
> Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
> 1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
> NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney
disease,
> you should consult your doctor
> before taking supplements.
———————————————————————————————————————-

GABA

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe
for both deficiencie

Is GABA deficiencie at the Root problem of your substance abuse problem?

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number of
points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

– Are sedatives or ” downer your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points
………………

– Is alcohol your drug of choice ? if yes, 2 points
……………..

– Does alcohol relax you or help you sleep ?If yes 4 points
………………

– Have you ever obtained relief from symtoms of anxiety by taking
prescriptions drugs such as Ativan, Klonopin, Valium, or xanaz, or by taking
sedatives? If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you often have symptoms such as irritability, or dizziness when you go
four hours or more  without food ?
If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you have a history of panic attacks or severe anxiety ? If yes, 3points
………………

-Do you have a tendency to be thin or underwait? If yes, 2 points
………………

-Do you have a problem sleeping, specialy falling asleep ? If yes 2 points
……………….

-Do you have sugar cravings? If yes 2 points
……………..

– Is there a history of anxiety or panic disorder in your family ? If yes, 2
points
……………..

TOTAL                   ………………
Total of 11 to 14 points. You ar probably GABA-deficient.
Total  of 15 or more points.You are very probably GABA-deficient

If you have scored either probable or very probable, the essential nutrients
you should take to corrected this deficiency are listed below. Take them as
soon is possible. This should reduce or eliminate your substance urges and
others symptoms in 24 to seventy-two hours

ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS FOR GABA DEFICIENCY
Take the following primary nutrients if you are GABA deficient.
L-GLUTAMINE Up to 3000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner
and bedtime
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
L-THAURINE    Up to 1 000 mg witch dose of glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE          1 capsule with each dose of glutamine ,
during a meal

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg; molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

————————————————————————————–
Is ENDORPHINE  deficiency at the Root problem of your substance abuse
problem?

FOURTH  part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe for both deficiencie

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number
of points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

– Is Heroine, Darvon, codeine, methadone or other opiates your drugs of
choice? if yes, 5 points  ………….

– Have you ever had difficulty stopping the use of painkilling drugs auch as
codeine, darvon, methadone, or other opioids?
If yes ,3 points  …………..

-Do you use drugs or alcohol to carve out a respite or ” time out ” from a
very busy , active life ? If yes,4 points   …………

– Do you have a history of being overly responsible or time urgent, or
going from crisis to crisis in your life ?
if yes, 2 points……….

– Are you trouble by chronic pain, such as back pain or headaches ? If yes,
2 points…………

-Do you have difficulty enjoying pleasurable experiences much of the time
( and not just when you are feeling down) ?
If yes, 2 points ………

-Do you have low pain tolerance ? If yes 2 points……….

> TOTAL ………….
> From 8 to11 points : endorphine deficient
> From 11and up : seriously deficient
>
ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS
DL PHENYLALANINE (DLPA) up to 2.000 mg, 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
NOTE: if you are taking anti-depressant medication, you
should consult your doctor.
L-LEUCINE up to 2.000 mg, 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
L-METHIONINE up to 500mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
L-GLUTAMINE  500mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of 5htp or tryptophan,
during a meal
>
> > MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
> > Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take
enought
> > tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1
000mg;
> > Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
> > Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
> > 1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
> > NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney
> disease,
> > you should consult your doctor
> > before taking supplements.
—————————————————————————————
Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
> > your addiction now

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] test serotonine deficient ??
Date: December 8, 2004 at 5:08:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For the list

Is SEROTONIN deficiency at the Root problem of your substance abuse
problem?

> THIRD part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing
>
> If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of
> the nutrients that is prescribe for both deficiencie
>
>
> If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number
of points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

– Is alcohol your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points  ………….

– If you have smoked Marijuana, does it have a relaxing effect on you ? if
yes,2 points  …………..

-Have you ever obtained relief from depression by taking prozac, paxil, or
zoloft? If yes,5 points   …………

– Have you ever gotten relief from your symptoms by taking 5 HTP or the
amino acid tryptophan? if yes, 5 points……….

– Does eating hight sugar foods or processed carbohydrates relax you or
relieve your anxiety or both ? If yes, 2 points

-Do you often have the sens that you are ” out of sync ” or not attuned to
what’s going on around you? If yes, 2 points ………

-Do you have a history of anxious depression- that is , of feeling nervous
and irritable when you are “down”
If yes2 points

-Do you have a regular pattern odf unexplained rage or a history ofexplosive
or assaultive  behavior ? if yes 3 points  ……..

– Do you have an history of sleep problems, especially waking up early and
not being abble to go back to sleep ?
If yes,2 points………..

Is there a history of depression in your family ? If yes 2 points……..

Do you have often experience symptoms of gastrointestinal distress,
including gas, bloating, loose stools, constipation or abdominal disconfort
?Ifeyes 3 points…………

TOTAL ………….
From 11 to 14 points : serotonin deficient
From 14 and up : seriously deficient

ESSENTIAL
NUTRIENTS
5HTP        up to300mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfeast, dinner and
bedtime

L-GLUTAMINE Up to 1000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner
and bedtime
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of 5htp or tryptophan,
during a meal

> MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
> Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
> tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
> Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
> Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
> 1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
> NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney
disease,
> you should consult your doctor
> before taking supplements.
>
> Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
> your addiction now”
>
> I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.
>
> 🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
> God Bless
> Francis
>
>
>
>
> \
> > >> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > >> [%]
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
>
\]=———————————————————————=[/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
/]=———————————————————————=[\
> > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:
> http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> > > [%]
—– Original Message —–
From: donny snuffaluffagus
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:53 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Francis, may i ask a favor??

would you mind re-posting the 1st 2 self tests? I got 3 and 4 and found them very interesting. Being on anti-depressants + anti-anxiety meds, I would like to complete the whole series of tests.  I’d love to come off those meds and still feel at least as centered as I do now. I’d very much apreciate it. You can re-post or send to me directly at loudon420@hotmail.com . Thankers SOOOO Much…. *loudon*

>From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:36:41 -0500

>

>For the list

>

>  Is SEROTONIN deficiency at the Root problem of your substance abuse

>problem?

>

>

>

> > THIRD part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

> >

> > If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of

> > the nutrients that is prescribe for both deficiencie

> >

> >

> > If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number

>of points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

>

>- Is alcohol your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points  ………….

>

>- If you have smoked Marijuana, does it have a relaxing effect on you ? if

>yes,2 points  …………..

>

>-Have you ever obtained relief from depression by taking prozac, paxil, or

>zoloft? If yes,5 points   …………

>

>- Have you ever gotten relief from your symptoms by taking 5 HTP or the

>amino acid tryptophan? if yes, 5 points……….

>

>- Does eating hight sugar foods or processed carbohydrates relax you or

>relieve your anxiety or both ? If yes, 2 points

>

>-Do you often have the sens that you are ” out of sync ” or not attuned to

>what’s going on around you? If yes, 2 points ………

>

>-Do you have a history of anxious depression- that is , of feeling nervous

>and irritable when you are “down”

>If yes2 points

>

>-Do you have a regular pattern odf unexplained rage or a history ofexplosive

>or assaultive  behavior ? if yes 3 points  ……..

>

>- Do you have an history of sleep problems, especially waking up early and

>not being abble to go back to sleep ?

>If yes,2 points………..

>

>Is there a history of depression in your family ? If yes 2 points……..

>

>Do you have often experience symptoms of gastrointestinal distress,

>including gas, bloating, loose stools, constipation or abdominal disconfort

>?Ifeyes 3 points…………

>

>

>TOTAL ………….

>From 11 to 14 points : serotonin deficient

>From 14 and up : seriously deficient

>

>                                                           ESSENTIAL

>NUTRIENTS

>5HTP        up to300mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfeast, dinner and

>bedtime

>

>L-GLUTAMINE Up to 1000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner

>and bedtime

>Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you

>should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine

>B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of 5htp or tryptophan,

>during a meal

>

> > MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT

> > Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought

> > tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;

> > Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;

> > Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;

> > 1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.

> > NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney

>disease,

> > you should consult your doctor

> > before taking supplements.

> >

> > Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End

> > your addiction now”

> >

> > I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

> >

> > 🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!

> > God Bless

> > Francis

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > \

> > > >> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > > >> [%]

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > > > [%]

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > —

> > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.

> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > > > Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 – Release Date: 11/30/2004

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > —

> > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > > > Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 – Release Date: 11/30/2004

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > > > [%]

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > [%]

> > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

>[%]

> >

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> >

> >

>

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

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From: Fosterwash14@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: remove from mailing list
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:57:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from mailing list
thank you
rof

From: “donny snuffaluffagus” <loudon420@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Francis, may i ask a favor??
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:53:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

would you mind re-posting the 1st 2 self tests? I got 3 and 4 and found them very interesting. Being on anti-depressants + anti-anxiety meds, I would like to complete the whole series of tests.  I’d love to come off those meds and still feel at least as centered as I do now. I’d very much apreciate it. You can re-post or send to me directly at loudon420@hotmail.com . Thankers SOOOO Much…. *loudon*

>From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:36:41 -0500

>

>For the list

>

>  Is SEROTONIN deficiency at the Root problem of your substance abuse

>problem?

>

>

>

> > THIRD part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

> >

> > If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of

> > the nutrients that is prescribe for both deficiencie

> >

> >

> > If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number

>of points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

>

>- Is alcohol your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points  ………….

>

>- If you have smoked Marijuana, does it have a relaxing effect on you ? if

>yes,2 points  …………..

>

>-Have you ever obtained relief from depression by taking prozac, paxil, or

>zoloft? If yes,5 points   …………

>

>- Have you ever gotten relief from your symptoms by taking 5 HTP or the

>amino acid tryptophan? if yes, 5 points……….

>

>- Does eating hight sugar foods or processed carbohydrates relax you or

>relieve your anxiety or both ? If yes, 2 points

>

>-Do you often have the sens that you are ” out of sync ” or not attuned to

>what’s going on around you? If yes, 2 points ………

>

>-Do you have a history of anxious depression- that is , of feeling nervous

>and irritable when you are “down”

>If yes2 points

>

>-Do you have a regular pattern odf unexplained rage or a history ofexplosive

>or assaultive  behavior ? if yes 3 points  ……..

>

>- Do you have an history of sleep problems, especially waking up early and

>not being abble to go back to sleep ?

>If yes,2 points………..

>

>Is there a history of depression in your family ? If yes 2 points……..

>

>Do you have often experience symptoms of gastrointestinal distress,

>including gas, bloating, loose stools, constipation or abdominal disconfort

>?Ifeyes 3 points…………

>

>

>TOTAL ………….

>From 11 to 14 points : serotonin deficient

>From 14 and up : seriously deficient

>

>                                                           ESSENTIAL

>NUTRIENTS

>5HTP        up to300mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfeast, dinner and

>bedtime

>

>L-GLUTAMINE Up to 1000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner

>and bedtime

>Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you

>should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine

>B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of 5htp or tryptophan,

>during a meal

>

> > MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT

> > Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought

> > tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;

> > Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;

> > Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;

> > 1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.

> > NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney

>disease,

> > you should consult your doctor

> > before taking supplements.

> >

> > Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End

> > your addiction now”

> >

> > I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

> >

> > 🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!

> > God Bless

> > Francis

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > \

> > > >> [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > > >> [%]

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > > > [%]

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > —

> > > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.

> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > > > Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 – Release Date: 11/30/2004

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > —

> > > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

> > > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

> > > > Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 – Release Date: 11/30/2004

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> > > > [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

> > http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > > > [%]

> > > >

> > > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> > >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands:

>http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

> > [%]

> > >

> >

>\]=———————————————————————=[/

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>/]=———————————————————————=[\

> >  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

>[%]

> >

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> >

> >

>

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN – bustin’ TVs
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:51:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of
tryptophan. Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of
endorphine. No more over
stimulation

I like this one in particular.  Anyone remember that
song by Disposable Heroes of Hip-Hoprisy..”Television
is the Drug of the Nation”

love it…cuz it’s true…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Fosterwash14@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Remove from mailing list
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:50:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from mailing list
thankyou
rof

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care- On Violence & Fight Club
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:46:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For whatever reason,
men are just wired for
a rough and violent daily world, both giving it out
and getting it back.
Damn few shrinks get that. Even fewer pharmacists.

I would almost venture to say that violence is a
NECESSARY emotion(right word??) for men, and for women
also.  Violence is an integral part of the human
experience.  Nature herself can be very violent.
Without a proper and healthy outlet, violent
tendencies/urges can overtake your body, and all
manners of illness can ensue.  Men are more apt to
take out violent urges physically, while women do it
emotionally/verbally; of course, there are exceptions
to every rule.

Remember Fight Club?  Besides being Anarchy 101 and
paraphrasing some of the writings of Hakim Bey, I
think some of the points the film tried to make were
quite profound:
– how can you really know yourself unless you’ve been
in a fight?
– the culture of consumerism and capitalism is quite
contrary to the genetic memory of being
hunter/gatherers.

In the words of Tyler Durden: ” Man, I see in fight
club the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever lived.
I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God
damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting
tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us
chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we
can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle children
of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great
War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a spiritual
war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve all
been raised on television to believe that one day we’d
all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars.
But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact. And
we’re very, very pissed off. ”

Julie PS. Instead of a war between the US and Iraq,
how about putting George W and Osama into a battle
royale cage together, and letting them duke it out,
man to man(“two men enter, one man leaves”)?  They are
taking the cowardly path, by having their countrymen
fight their battles for them.  They should both be
ashamed of themselves.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Fosterwash14@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Please Remove me fom your mailing list
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:38:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would appreciate if you remove me from your mailing list
thank you
rof

From: Fosterwash14@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:Please remove me from your mailing list
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:31:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would appreciate being removed from your mailing list
thanj you rof

From: Fosterwash14@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Please remove me from your e-mail list
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:29:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi
I would really appreciate if you move me from your mailing list
I no longer need the info
thankyou rof

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:28:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

De nada
So now you know 🙂
My two cents….

I have a serotonin deficiency too so I have a small list of tools in my
bag

hey, when you get a chance, could you post the serotonin deficiency test
again? i seem to have to deleted it…  or you can just email it me
directly.

i’m reasonably sure i’m serotonin deficient, but  i’d be interested to see
what the test says

thanx =)

j0n

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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Deborah self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of yourdrug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:25:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does anyone know what Molybdenum is?

molybednum’s a mineral. you can find it at your friendly neighbourhood
vitamin    store =)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:22:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi.  I certainly fit this GABA deficient profile as well – and I have no doubt that opiates help me control some of this.  But when I was “clean” for a couple of years, I had excellent results from zoloft – 50 mgs in the morning, and one klonopin at night.  Before starting that regimen I could hardly drive or go to work.  It really amazed me how much the zoloft helped.  Of course getting off zoloft for me is as tough as the benzos.  (Who says SSRI’s aren’t addictive – what a joke.)
To Ron – I only take a small amount of klonopin, but I am still very much aware of how hard reducing the dose is, so I sympathize.  I had heard over and over that benzos were always going to be the hardest to get off of, and I read on the net about one person who said they would take just one pill and brush it across a piece of sandpaper.  Each week they would increase the “brush” so that the next week it was two brushes, etc.  That’s what I’ve been doing, more or less, as I want to be free of these prescription meds myself.
Best wishes to all..                                                                                                       Sandy

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for  GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Tue,  7 Dec 2004 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>

>

>

>This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&amp;sc=I100322I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas? —

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] America’s Love Affair with Bush
Date: December 8, 2004 at 3:18:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

seldom do i reply to things like this but that was borderline ridiculous

:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/47694053.html

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: “booker w” <swbooker@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 2:52:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

H.

>From: “” <thethird@myway.com>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for  GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

>Date: Tue,  7 Dec 2004 17:22:39 -0500 (EST)

>

>

>

>

>

>This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&amp;sc=I100322I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas? —

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care
Date: December 8, 2004 at 2:16:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <RonDavis[rwd3@cox.net]>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron:

I don’t want you to “punch out”, Ron, and everytime I box the ears off
someone, that catgut stitching is really messy and the screams drive away
my new patients.  The boxing analogy does work here because if you got
into a boxing workout, you would enjoy the self esteem repair and
anti-depression that would follow. The punching and blocking impacts (head
shots unacceptable) would help clear your mind of inner conversations with
ghosts and self torment. Use these combat workouts for slow and steady
progress into a better fitness level even while you use the benzos, and
watch your fears and stress levels melt right down. Sort of like, get in
touch with your “inner-thug”! For whatever reason, men are just wired for
a rough and violent daily world, both giving it out and getting it back.
Damn few shrinks get that. Even fewer pharmacists. Put aging men at a
desk, on the bench or in some bed, and watch the predictable psychological
decline into depression and early death.

The self tests posted by Francis are interesting. How do you rate on
those? I’ll contribute some prescription ideas for those, when I get a
chance, and other providers have ideas to add as well.  I hope Frank can
correlate these and then the suggestions can make their way into Howard’s
great treatment manual.

Meanwhile, back to Ron…. you sound really worried about what other
people think of you, and convinced that you are a bad, or not very good
guy. That misunderstanding of who you are isn’t a drug or nutrient
problem,except indirectly, it’s a spiritual and philosophical challenge.
Talk to the man in the mirror and convince him that he is a piece of God,
deserving the comfort and health of any of God’s blessing. What others
think of you is just none of your business. It takes most of us many
decades to unlearn the crap teaching us the opposite of this, and most
never do.

The rest of us are usually caught in our own hustle, so how could our
opinions of you be even partly well-informed? I’m not alone in noticing
that the focus on your inner light and power is where the rubber meets the
road in this journey toward awareness. Bwiti puts you into more intimate
and honest contact with your immortal Self than you have ever been. The
mindvox list folks will gladly help and inspire you, but you’re driving
the bus, man. Nice scenery along here, innit?

Dr. Tom

easy to box the ears off a neophyte.  i suspect  beneveolence as i perceive
a healer. good timingbespoke, but he may want me out say the word tom and
i’ll punch out, ron

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 8, 2004 at 2:50:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

De nada
So now you know 🙂
My two cents….

I have a serotonin deficiency too so I have a small list of tools in my bag

– To surrender your will to a loving higher power.
Then you don’t have  to fight anymore : encrease level of  Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– Accept to be powerless on about everything 🙂
boyfriend, boss, familly member….
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class, ceramics
class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe. Less fears,
feeling of ” to be part of ” to be useful encrease level of  Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– to get rid of the burdain of self guilt and self pity: confessions,
spiritual cleansing, inventory, amends.
encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
– humility
Getting read of the EGO . You don’t have to prove anything, to argue, to
fight …encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
-Patience
Same here,
– Simplicity
If you   live in simplicity. You are killing the desire to accumulate: less
dopamine and energy spent in the
” rat race ” Fewers enemies….more control on your life, more time
available to enjoy
– To live in the present. encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease
Dopamine. No more worries and repents .

– Doct ignorance : I know that I don’t know shit 🙂 so even this list is
maybee wrong, maybee not.?/!
-meditation
-prayer
-comtemplation
– relaxation
– music ( relaxing)
-warm bath
– Special breathing
-biofeedback
-auto hypnosis
-hypnosis
-acupuncture
-massage
– Food ( absolutly natural avoid carbs and sugar )
– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of  tryptophan. Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of endorphine. No more over
stimulation
– Mantra
– Taking care of a persone, animal or garden.
– sex
In general, avoid any form  of unecessary stress
I am serious 😉 you can teach your brain how to balance dopamine  with
serotonin and build a new ” landscape ”
Everything in this list  is working in  rebalancing chemical deficiencies
God Bless
Francis


—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of your
drug abuse

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for endorphin deficiency as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 1:29:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For the list

Is ENDORPHINE  deficiency at the Root problem of your substance abuse
problem?

FOURTH  part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe for both deficiencie

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number
of points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

– Is Heroine, Darvon, codeine, methadone or other opiates your drugs of
choice? if yes, 5 points  ………….

– Have you ever had difficulty stopping the use of painkilling drugs auch as
codeine, darvon, methadone, or other opioids?
If yes ,3 points  …………..

-Do you use drugs or alcohol to carve out a respite or ” time out ” from a
very busy , active life ? If yes,4 points   …………

– Do you have a history of being overly responsible or time urgent, or
going from crisis to crisis in your life ?
if yes, 2 points……….

– Are you trouble by chronic pain, such as back pain or headaches ? If yes,
2 points…………

-Do you have difficulty enjoying pleasurable experiences much of the time
( and not just when you are feeling down) ?
If yes, 2 points ………

-Do you have low pain tolerance ? If yes 2 points……….

TOTAL ………….
From 8 to11 points : endorphine deficient
From 11and up : seriously deficient

ESSENTIAL
NUTRIENTS
DL PHENYLALANINE (DLPA) up to 2.000 mg, 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
NOTE: if you are taking anti-depressant medication, you
should consult your doctor.
L-LEUCINE up to 2.000 mg, 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
L-METHIONINE up to 500mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
L-GLUTAMINE  500mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before meals
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of 5htp or tryptophan,
during a meal

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take
enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1
000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney
disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
your addiction now”

I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
God Bless
Francis

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 1:05:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 12:36:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For the list

Is SEROTONIN deficiency at the Root problem of your substance abuse
problem?

THIRD part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe for both deficiencie

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number
of points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

– Is alcohol your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points  ………….

– If you have smoked Marijuana, does it have a relaxing effect on you ? if
yes,2 points  …………..

-Have you ever obtained relief from depression by taking prozac, paxil, or
zoloft? If yes,5 points   …………

– Have you ever gotten relief from your symptoms by taking 5 HTP or the
amino acid tryptophan? if yes, 5 points……….

– Does eating hight sugar foods or processed carbohydrates relax you or
relieve your anxiety or both ? If yes, 2 points

-Do you often have the sens that you are ” out of sync ” or not attuned to
what’s going on around you? If yes, 2 points ………

-Do you have a history of anxious depression- that is , of feeling nervous
and irritable when you are “down”
If yes2 points

-Do you have a regular pattern odf unexplained rage or a history ofexplosive
or assaultive  behavior ? if yes 3 points  ……..

– Do you have an history of sleep problems, especially waking up early and
not being abble to go back to sleep ?
If yes,2 points………..

Is there a history of depression in your family ? If yes 2 points……..

Do you have often experience symptoms of gastrointestinal distress,
including gas, bloating, loose stools, constipation or abdominal disconfort
?Ifeyes 3 points…………

TOTAL ………….
From 11 to 14 points : serotonin deficient
From 14 and up : seriously deficient

ESSENTIAL
NUTRIENTS
5HTP        up to300mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfeast, dinner and
bedtime

L-GLUTAMINE Up to 1000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner
and bedtime
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of 5htp or tryptophan,
during a meal

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney
disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
your addiction now”

I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
God Bless
Francis

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Origins of Eboga – Any dates??
Date: December 8, 2004 at 11:56:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

I am trying (weakly) to ascertain the earliest known use of eboga among the pygmies.

Does anyone have any insight on this i.e. knowledge of any good documentation on the subject.

Answers much appreciated.

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Deborah self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of yourdrug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 10:31:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Deborah !!
Infortunately I can’t answer your question . I think Dr.Tom will know the
answer. I took the information on a book by DR. Charles Gant on addiction.

God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Deborah Vincent” <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of yourdrug
abuse

Hi Francis,
Thanks for this!!! Most interesting!! One query.. Is there something
missing
between Selenium and Molybdenum? 60 mcg of what?
Does anyone know what Molybdenum is?
Cheers,
deborah

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] test for dopamine and serotonin deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 10:27:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ji Julie !  🙂
I will post the test for serotonin today
I have another test for endorphin/enkephalin-deficient abuser that I will
try to post today.

God bless
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug
abuse

Francis,

Are there any self-tests for dopamine and serotonin
deficiencies?  I’ve begun to suspect that- due to my
drug choices- I might be overabundant in dopamine, but
deficient in serotonin…

Thanks, Francis,

Julie 🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 9:49:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Francis,

Are there any self-tests for dopamine and serotonin
deficiencies?  I’ve begun to suspect that- due to my
drug choices- I might be overabundant in dopamine, but
deficient in serotonin…

Thanks, Francis,

Julie 🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.
Date: December 8, 2004 at 8:37:32 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And Andrew replies (below).
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Andrew Byrne” <ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au>
To: “‘Preston Peet'” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 5:35 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.

Oh yes, LAAM has been curtailed by US and European drug companies.  Great
pity.  I wrote that towards the end but nobody reads THAT far in these
pressurized days!  It will reappear sometime, somewhere … when rationality
rules, not the almighty (US) dollar.

Cheers,

Andrew B ..

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Terrible THC/endocannabinoid article, BMJ bogus crap
Date: December 8, 2004 at 8:29:27 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The British Medical Journal was, at one time, free to read online.
Guess that status has changed by now?  Again, good for you
and Howard for putting out this and all other info. you encounter.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Terrible THC/endocannabinoid article, BMJ bogus crap

Dear Howard and list,

God, that BMJ article really pissed me off!  I was
almost expecting to see “Funded by the joint efforts
of the DEA, the NIDA, and the Christian Women’s
Temperance Movement.”

It really amused me to read the first sentence under
the “Discussion” heading.  And I quote, “Exposure to
cannabis during adolescence and young adulthood
increases the risk of psychosis later in life.”  This
is discussion?  More like “Sweeping, Emphatically
Biased Statements.”  Totally unquantifiable
garbage….

This golden verbage is followed by a seemingly
contradictory set of statements on page 4: “It is
generally accepted[by whom: the group of 5, maybe 10,
scientists who published this article?] that cannabis
use is strongly associated with psychosis…We do not
know whether the association is causal or whether
those with a predisposition for psychosis are
particularly at risk.”   Um, idiots, if you don’t
really know the answer to this questions, why did you
open this article with the emphatic statement quoted
in the previous paragraph?

Hmm…maybe I should become a researcher, so I can
talk out of my ass, and many people will accept these
verbal nuggets of impacted feces as THE TRUTH.  I’m
sorry, but  this study is complete and utter anti-drug
bogus.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Excellent THC/endocannabinoid article, Scientific American, Dec. issue
Date: December 8, 2004 at 8:23:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You are doing a great job of searching the literature for us.  Thanks
a lot and keep it up!!  The more facts we have, the more we are
able to educate the world.  Don’t you just hate the “glazed eyed” look
some people give you when you try to have a discussion with them?
Like you are speaking in tongues to them 🙂

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Excellent THC/endocannabinoid article, Scientific American, Dec. issue

Dear list,

Just wanted to let you know that the December issue of
Scientific American has an excellent article on
THC/endocannabinoids, and their application in
medicine and healing.

Sara, I believe it might explain why pot prevents
seizures.  I would recommend this read to everyone,
med folks and lay people alike…

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=0008F53F-80F7-119B-80F783414B7F0000

love Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 8, 2004 at 5:16:08 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis,
Thanks for this!!! Most interesting!! One query.. Is there something missing
between Selenium and Molybdenum? 60 mcg of what?
Does anyone know what Molybdenum is?
Cheers,
deborah

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for tom
Date: December 8, 2004 at 1:21:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i need a good slap periodically, so no harm taken. you are obviously much wiser in this area than i and it’s apparent. need all the help i can get or will lose my livelihood and what’s left of my soon to be one person family. carte blanche on the slaps, if intended and needed. am i off base on this uk ashton benzo taper?  trouble lurks and i find it.   i think i paid dues in spades and fell back into the pit.  my bad. you are very gracious to follow up and i appreciate it. thank you. seizures scare me, i d/n want to kill someone or do the chicken in ct. pd’s are much maligned as it is. i’m losing it, no control and scared to death. geeze, more pity. oh, by the by, i d/n vote for the bugger either as he turns our world upside down. glad i saw the good days sober  or what was left of them. this holistic approach to wellness is contra to the way  i was taught to think.i am graced w/ the ability to see both sides of issues, albeit,, hesitant to  take a stand. so…. i stand here, soulless grasping at straws and feeding the machine i, too, despise.. ron, wishing you my peaceful path
—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:50 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Ron and Frank,

Here’s a link to a very comprehensive rehab site online that you can study
and network with, if you like…

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/

I can’t see a “hostile chord” in my post, Ron.  I agree with Kirsty that
your being real is appreciated by me as a virtue. Martee’s advice to slow
down and work these suggestions from a center is profound. Maybe my
hostility toward the terrible political and economic realities we face in
the world today, whether addicted or not, just rode across these electrons
and felt like it was aimed at you. Au contraire…by being a mindvoxvegian
you are on my “A” list.

I notice that with all your authentic pain and fear, you always support
and appreciate others who share their own problems with us. I would just
hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private spaces and into
the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible tool for the
human spirit. I confess to being hostile toward all threats to my spirit,
be they in my own mind, or some lizard multi-national’s board room. Don’t
let it bother you, I just use the anger like a coach’s whistle.

Peace and Justice.

Dr. Tom

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 8, 2004 at 1:00:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Welcome to Jerks-R-US!!
Just remember to make it a clean and jerk
And don’t ever be short of jerky.
Lots of love from Aunty Kirky
(I know, that was really bad but it’s been a shit day, I’m feeling really
sorry for myself, so nyah nyah my turn ron lol)

—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 5:21 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

friends are great, i’m a jerk, thanks.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

Like I said, I know where you’re at… and unless we vent, fume, mutter,
froth at the bit etc, how are we going to get the advice and support we
need?  You don’t have my sympathy, you have my compassion, and if wanted,
my
friendship :o)
Kirk


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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.
Date: December 8, 2004 at 12:37:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Howard, I’ve fowarded your comment to Andrew Byrne.

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.

Sorry to inform you all but the manufacturer of LAAM in the US withdrew the
drug from the market to cardiac related fatalities. Prolonged QT interval.

Howard

In a message dated 12/7/04 11:33:46 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

—– Original Message —–
From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.

Evaluation of levo-alpha-acetylmethdol (LAAM) as an alternative treatment
for methadone maintenance patients who regularly experience withdrawal:
a pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic analysis. Newcombe DA, Bochnera F,
White JM, Somogyi AA.  Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2004) 76; 1: 63-72

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.
Date: December 8, 2004 at 12:05:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry to inform you all but the manufacturer of LAAM in the US withdrew the
drug from the market to cardiac related fatalities. Prolonged QT interval.

Howard

In a message dated 12/7/04 11:33:46 PM, ptpeet@nyc.rr.com writes:

—– Original Message —–

From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.

Evaluation of levo-alpha-acetylmethdol (LAAM) as an alternative treatment
for methadone maintenance patients who regularly experience withdrawal:
a pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic analysis. Newcombe DA, Bochnera F,
White JM, Somogyi AA.  Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2004) 76; 1: 63-72

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank
Date: December 7, 2004 at 11:30:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

easy to box the ears off a neophyte.  i suspect  beneveolence as i perceive a healer. good timingbespoke, but he may want me out say the word tom and i’ll punch out, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Wow, I can hear orchestral music to that sentence!!!!  Well spoke.
KD

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 12:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Dr.Tom wrote:

“I would just hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private
spaces and into the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible
tool for the human spirit.”

I’m hoping with you,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: tomo7@starband.net [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 20:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Ron and Frank,

Here’s a link to a very comprehensive rehab site online that you can study
and network with, if you like…

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/

I can’t see a “hostile chord” in my post, Ron.  I agree with Kirsty that
your being real is appreciated by me as a virtue. Martee’s advice to slow
down and work these suggestions from a center is profound. Maybe my
hostility toward the terrible political and economic realities we face in
the world today, whether addicted or not, just rode across these electrons
and felt like it was aimed at you. Au contraire…by being a mindvoxvegian
you are on my “A” list.

I notice that with all your authentic pain and fear, you always support
and appreciate others who share their own problems with us. I would just
hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private spaces and into
the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible tool for the
human spirit. I confess to being hostile toward all threats to my spirit,
be they in my own mind, or some lizard multi-national’s board room. Don’t
let it bother you, I just use the anger like a coach’s whistle.

Peace and Justice.

Dr. Tom

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] from another list
Date: December 7, 2004 at 11:23:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This was posted to Addict-L and I thought it to be generally interesting and
am passing it on. It is not provided with any specific intent or in response
to any specific post on this list.

Howard

n a message dated 12/7/04 10:27:58 AM, fred_etoh@YAHOO.COM writes:

I’m not surprised your experience is different. You only see a select group
of folks (those who end up in treatment, perhaps), while the research has
studied larger more diverse groups. You are a “victim” of what I call the
“clinician’s fallacy”–which is due to having only a limited personal sample
to draw upon (we are all victims of this fallacy to some extent–that’s
why looking at the research that others do is do important–it gets us
free [somewhat] of our own limited perspective!).

One of the issues raised in the review article I referred to is that there
are virtually no studies in which the violent individuals had only a single
drug in their bodies–other than the studies on alcohol, which has clearly
been linked to violent and aggressive behavior, even in the laboratory.
I suspect that, if your clinical experience is like mine, the same problem
holds–it is virtually impossible to know for sure what substances a given
individual has taken, in what “actual” (as opposed to adulterated street
level) quanitity they took, and whether what they thought they took was
actual what they took.

This is one area where good research is difficult (the baserate of violent
behavior, even among users of drugs thought to cause violence) is relatively
low, much of the documented violence occurs in police situations where
interpersonal confrontation is often initiated by the police, and there
is virtually no jurisdiction I know of that does reliable, thorough testing
for which drugs are present, in every single case. We also don’t see any
of the users who do not come to police/treatment provider attention.

So, while clinical experience may suggest one perspective, so far that
perspective (which is based largely on the inadequate data sources I’ve
just noted) has not been well supported by research.

An analogous situation, BTW, is the notion of “progression” among substance
users from use to abuse to dependence. That idea has not held up well either
when studied in well designed fashion. However, when we look at clinical
populations alone, that is what we seem to see!

Fred

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 7, 2004 at 11:21:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

friends are great, i’m a jerk, thanks.
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

Like I said, I know where you’re at… and unless we vent, fume, mutter,
froth at the bit etc, how are we going to get the advice and support we
need?  You don’t have my sympathy, you have my compassion, and if wanted, my
friendship :o)
Kirk


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.
Date: December 7, 2004 at 10:58:12 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Andrew Byrne
To: ajbyrne@ozemail.com.au
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:46 PM
Subject: Alternatives to methadone show improvements always possible.

Evaluation of levo-alpha-acetylmethdol (LAAM) as an alternative treatment for methadone maintenance patients who regularly experience withdrawal: a pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic analysis. Newcombe DA, Bochnera F, White JM, Somogyi AA.  Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2004) 76; 1: 63-72

Dear Colleagues,

The Adelaide University Department of Experimental Pharmacology continues to impress with detailed scientific work which contains practical lessons for clinical practice.

In this study 16 volunteer methadone patients were transferred to LAAM (L-acetyl methadol, a chemical cousin of methadone, no longer in clinical use) for 3 months and then returned to methadone.  While half the patients were chosen as stable or ‘holders’, the rest ‘non-holders’ based on ‘self report’, presumably of illicit drug use and/or withdrawal symptoms.  The non-holders had a mean methadone dose of 83mg daily, the ‘holders’ 73mg, at the start of the study (an Adelaide study reported 63mg in 1996).  Doses after the study were only very slightly higher with adjustments as clinically indicated during the 6 month period.

It is a disadvantage of pure experimental pharmacology studies using clinical subjects in treatment that one cannot easily determine whether treatment given was consistent with current guidelines (eg. Strang’s UK ‘orange’ guidelines).  It is unlikely that a dose of 30mg in a ‘non-holder’ would be based on such prescribing guidelines which recommend about 60mg as a minimum effective dose to abolish withdrawals in most patients.  Yet one such patient was included in this trial.

The researchers performed numerous clinical measures including pupils size, respiration rates, blood levels over 24 hours, but the most important findings were patient self report of satisfaction with the treatment (described here as ‘holders’).

Even with a randomised protocol it may not be possible to know if the improvements reported are due to the LAAM or the actual experimental “fuss” involved.  But it does demonstrate that ‘non-holders’ can become ‘holders’ if alternative doses, drugs and/or other therapeutic interventions are considered in the therapeutic milieu.  This same benefit can be seen with alternative prescribing in diverse branches of medicine such as arthritis, migraine and diabetes where sometimes a change in medication can lead to improvements for unknown and unpredictable reasons.  The ‘placebo effect’ is probably responsible for some such reported benefits, yet actual differences must play a role as well.

Vincent P. Dole, who first devised methadone maintenance treatment, often reminds us that methadone is just another prescribed drug for a medical condition.  When given in sufficient doses with adequate supervision and psychosocial supports, the results should be predictable and gratifying for both doctor and patient.  But a proportion cannot or will not take methadone so, without an alternative, they drop out of ‘mono-therapy’.

It would be interesting to know how these researchers would approach a similar study, using 2 parallel groups of diabetics who were ‘stable’ and ‘unstable’ with regards to sugar levels.  Often ‘real world’ clinical medicine is simpler than all of this science and utilises two principles: (1) patient choice and (2) trial and error (doctor’s choice) … starting with the safest, cheapest or most popular drug, eg methadone and then only reverting to LAAM, buprenorphine, long acting morphine, naltrexone, etc in those who do not respond to the traditional drug in ‘full’ or adequate doses.  And such simple measures, with adequate psychosocial supports, very often yield excellent results with up to 95% of subjects reportedly able to cease injecting behaviours, according to Dole.

While not directly related to this study, it is regrettable that LAAM, being a second day administered drug, was over-used in the United States for the convenience of clinics rather than for genuine clinical indications.  The withdrawal of Vioxx for arthritis has some similarities (see also this week’s JAMA for discussions of post marketing surveillance http://jama.ama-assn.org/).  Both Vioxx and LAAM were found to have a very rare but potentially serious side effect (on heart conduction regards LAAM) and both are now completely withdrawn from the market in most countries. This was probably done to protect drug companies from legal liabilities without an independent examination of the risks and benefits in clinical uses.  The drugs would probably still be indicated as valuable ‘second-line’ agents where methadone or other first line agents were found to be ineffective or to have unacceptable side effects.  Even thalidomide has some limited uses despite its disadvantages.  In most cases LAAM would be much safer than injected street heroin!

Comments by Andrew Byrne ..

Newcombe DA, Bochnera F, White JM, Somogyi AA.  Evaluation of levo-alpha-acetylmethdol (LAAM) as an alternative treatment for methadone maintenance patients who regularly experience withdrawal: a pharmacokinetic and pharmacodynamic analysis. Drug and Alcohol Dependence (2004) 76; 1: 63-72

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dr Andrew Byrne MB BS (SYD) FAChAM (RACP)
Dependency Medicine,
75 Redfern Street, Redfern,
New South Wales, 2016, Australia
Email – ajbyrneATozemail.com.au
Tel (61 – 2) 9319 5524  Fax 9318 0631
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] scarfing down the medicine
Date: December 7, 2004 at 9:38:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, wow.

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:30:59 -0800 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
scarfing down the medicine

and laying on my side

212 brown capsules churning with the tide

nervous as a pigeon

smaller than a flea

i struggle with my ego and if it’s really me

a great green forest

pouring out my throat

styrofoam and rubbers

floating in my moat

broken teeth and spoken dreams splatter on the floor

i heave and gag and spew my soul until there is no more

shuddering from the glick i curl into a ball

the clouds so thick and dark and deep i cannot see at all

a great tree erupts and splits my head in two

in a moment carved in time that was really meant for you

not dead from the winter

but big and green and bright

sharing secret codes of wisdom and riddles out of sight

a noise spins my head

i turn around to see

a great fanged beetle pushing a grinning skull at me

cobwebs in her mouth and

the planets in her eye

satellites and moon beams

just floating right on by

pyramids of ancients and crows pecking at my face

i feel so at home in this deep forgotten space

a familiar face etched in stone slowly drifting by

cracks, crumbles and disappears before i wonder why

a splintered boardwalk plank

beaten by the feet

of a thousand sea sick sailors marching to the beat

of a hurdy gurdy jingle

crackling thru the air

boiled in wax and hung to dry

as if they really didn’t care

my soul writhes in hunger

the room begins to spin

i’m trembling from so far away and so deep within

my throat starts to burn

and my eyes begin to tear

of what i came to look and see and what i did not hear

but mostly from the knowledge that my life is based on fear

Š[copyright]2004 Dave Hunter

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] scarfing down the medicine
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:43:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very cool, Dave, very cool….

— D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:

scarfing down the medicine

and laying on my side

212 brown capsules churning with the tide

nervous as a pigeon

smaller than a flea

i struggle with my ego and if it’s really me

a great green forest

pouring out my throat

styrofoam and rubbers

floating in my moat

broken teeth and spoken dreams splatter on the floor

i heave and gag and spew my soul until there is no
more

shuddering from the glick i curl into a ball

the clouds so thick and dark and deep i cannot see
at all

a great tree erupts and splits my head in two

in a moment carved in time that was really meant for
you

not dead from the winter

but big and green and bright

sharing secret codes of wisdom and riddles out of
sight

a noise spins my head

i turn around to see

a great fanged beetle pushing a grinning skull at me

cobwebs in her mouth and

the planets in her eye

satellites and moon beams

just floating right on by

pyramids of ancients and crows pecking at my face

i feel so at home in this deep forgotten space

a familiar face etched in stone slowly drifting by

cracks, crumbles and disappears before i wonder why

a splintered boardwalk plank

beaten by the feet

of a thousand sea sick sailors marching to the beat

of a hurdy gurdy jingle

crackling thru the air

boiled in wax and hung to dry

as if they really didn’t care

my soul writhes in hunger

the room begins to spin

i’m trembling from so far away and so deep within

my throat starts to burn

and my eyes begin to tear

of what i came to look and see and what i did not
hear

but mostly from the knowledge that my life is based
on fear

Š[copyright]2004 Dave Hunter

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] FW: Your Kids will want to stay clean with SpongeBob!
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:43:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well folks, here it is, the way to keep your kids off drugs and clean!!! I mean, geez, look at those characters, they look wayyy trashed!!
Sorry, I’m trying to keep myself up cos a lot of down stuff is happening and I don’t want to go there.
So, wanted to share a laugh.
From: Holiday Gifts [mailto:zspmtpwianf@tvecleh.reloner.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 2:31 p.m.
To: captkirk@free.net.nz
Subject: Your Kids will want to stay clean with SpongeBob
This promotion is sponsored brought to you by Way Beyond Communications,LLC. If you no longer wish to receive Way Beyond Communications,LLC emails, click here or
Print a copy of this email and send it along with your letter to: Way Beyond Communications,LLC | 2901 Clint Moore Rd.#127 | Boca Raton, FL 33496, USA

Remove yourself from this recurring list by:

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] scarfing down the medicine
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:28:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave, that is awesome. Good thing you copy wrote that. Ibogaine ROCKS. It surely opens the head doesn’t it?                     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:18:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, I feel pretty good. It’s been almost 10 weeks. Over 2 months anyway. At this point I feel pretty normal, whatever that is with cravings to speak of. You are an inspiration to me. Keep this thing going dude. Maybe Sean will see his name and talk to us. Take advantage of being in Amsterdam for me will ya? I have to see those coffee shops sometime. Keep in touch with us when you can and for sure get hold of us when you get back.        Randy

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:13:36 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi !!
Happy to help, Charles Gant claims an 80% success rate confirmed by an outcome study realized by New standard. Inc an independent research group that assesses drug and alcohol recovery. But later you have to follow a protocol of maintenace with a lot of vitamis and mineral. Keep me informed.I would like to keep track of the results.
I had two deficiencies GABA and serotine. After dinner I will post the last two test .
Good luck !!
God bless
Francis

You wrote :

This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&sc=I100322
I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas?

— On Tue 12/07, The Garden < GardenRestaurant@comcast.net > wrote:

From: The Garden [mailto: GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:53:56 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

First part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe
for both deficiencie

Is GABA deficiencie at the Root problem of your substance abuse problem?

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number of
points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is : “no”

– Are sedatives or ” downer your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points
………………

– Is alcohol your drug of choice ? if yes, 2 points
……………..

– Does alcohol relax you or help you sleep ?If yes 4 points
………………

– Have you ever obtained relief from symtoms of anxiety by taking
prescriptions drugs such as Ativan, Klonopin, Valium, or xanaz, or by taking
sedatives? If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you often have symptoms such as irritability, or dizziness when you go
four hours or more without food ?
If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you have a history of panic attacks or severe anxiety ? If yes, 3points
………………

-Do you have a tendency to be thin or underwait? If yes, 2 points
………………

-Do you have a problem sleeping, specialy falling asleep ? If yes 2 points
……………….

-Do you have sugar cravings? If yes 2 points
……………..

– Is there a history of anxiety or panic disorder in your family ? If yes, 2
points
……………..

TOTAL ………………
Total of 11 to 14 points. You ar probably GABA-deficient.
Total of 15 or more points.You are very probably GABA-deficient

If you have scored either probable or very probable, the essential nutrients
you should take to corrected this deficiency are listed below. Take them as
soon is possible. This should reduce or eliminate your substance urges and
others symptoms in 24 to seventy-two hours

ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS FOR GABA DEFICIENCY
Take the following primary nutrients if you are GABA deficient.
L-GLUTAMINE Up to 3000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner
and bedtime
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
L-THAURINE Up to 1 000 mg witch dose of glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of glutamine ,
during a meal

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg; iron 20 mg; zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg; molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
your addiction now”

I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

🙂 I know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
God Bless
Francis

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Terrible THC/endocannabinoid article, BMJ bogus crap
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:06:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I smoked cannabis as a youth (*twitch, gibber*) and at the age of 38 going
on 39 ((dribble drool snarrllll, gnash gnash*) I have found no (who dat?
I’ll keel ya, I will I’ll keel ya ifffin ya don’t get outta my HEADDDDD)
adverse affects (woof woof mooooooo) whatsoever.
Yours forever sanely
Kirsty Dawn.

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 1:58 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Terrible THC/endocannabinoid article, BMJ bogus crap

Dear Howard and list,

God, that BMJ article really pissed me off!  I was
almost expecting to see “Funded by the joint efforts
of the DEA, the NIDA, and the Christian Women’s
Temperance Movement.”

It really amused me to read the first sentence under
the “Discussion” heading.  And I quote, “Exposure to
cannabis during adolescence and young adulthood
increases the risk of psychosis later in life.”  This
is discussion?  More like “Sweeping, Emphatically
Biased Statements.”  Totally unquantifiable
garbage….

This golden verbage is followed by a seemingly
contradictory set of statements on page 4: “It is
generally accepted[by whom: the group of 5, maybe 10,
scientists who published this article?] that cannabis
use is strongly associated with psychosis…We do not
know whether the association is causal or whether
those with a predisposition for psychosis are
particularly at risk.”   Um, idiots, if you don’t
really know the answer to this questions, why did you
open this article with the emphatic statement quoted
in the previous paragraph?

Hmm…maybe I should become a researcher, so I can
talk out of my ass, and many people will accept these
verbal nuggets of impacted feces as THE TRUTH.  I’m
sorry, but  this study is complete and utter anti-drug
bogus.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Terrible THC/endocannabinoid article, BMJ bogus crap
Date: December 7, 2004 at 7:58:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Howard and list,

God, that BMJ article really pissed me off!  I was
almost expecting to see “Funded by the joint efforts
of the DEA, the NIDA, and the Christian Women’s
Temperance Movement.”

It really amused me to read the first sentence under
the “Discussion” heading.  And I quote, “Exposure to
cannabis during adolescence and young adulthood
increases the risk of psychosis later in life.”  This
is discussion?  More like “Sweeping, Emphatically
Biased Statements.”  Totally unquantifiable
garbage….

This golden verbage is followed by a seemingly
contradictory set of statements on page 4: “It is
generally accepted[by whom: the group of 5, maybe 10,
scientists who published this article?] that cannabis
use is strongly associated with psychosis…We do not
know whether the association is causal or whether
those with a predisposition for psychosis are
particularly at risk.”   Um, idiots, if you don’t
really know the answer to this questions, why did you
open this article with the emphatic statement quoted
in the previous paragraph?

Hmm…maybe I should become a researcher, so I can
talk out of my ass, and many people will accept these
verbal nuggets of impacted feces as THE TRUTH.  I’m
sorry, but  this study is complete and utter anti-drug
bogus.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] scarfing down the medicine
Date: December 7, 2004 at 7:27:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Another wow, that one should be put to music.
Thanks for sharing that
KD

—–Original Message—–
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 12:31 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] scarfing down the medicine

scarfing down the medicine

and laying on my side

212 brown capsules churning with the tide

nervous as a pigeon

smaller than a flea

i struggle with my ego and if it’s really me

a great green forest

pouring out my throat

styrofoam and rubbers

floating in my moat

broken teeth and spoken dreams splatter on the floor

i heave and gag and spew my soul until there is no more

shuddering from the glick i curl into a ball

the clouds so thick and dark and deep i cannot see at all

a great tree erupts and splits my head in two

in a moment carved in time that was really meant for you

not dead from the winter

but big and green and bright

sharing secret codes of wisdom and riddles out of sight

a noise spins my head

i turn around to see

a great fanged beetle pushing a grinning skull at me

cobwebs in her mouth and

the planets in her eye

satellites and moon beams

just floating right on by

pyramids of ancients and crows pecking at my face

i feel so at home in this deep forgotten space

a familiar face etched in stone slowly drifting by

cracks, crumbles and disappears before i wonder why

a splintered boardwalk plank

beaten by the feet

of a thousand sea sick sailors marching to the beat

of a hurdy gurdy jingle

crackling thru the air

boiled in wax and hung to dry

as if they really didn’t care

my soul writhes in hunger

the room begins to spin

i’m trembling from so far away and so deep within

my throat starts to burn

and my eyes begin to tear

of what i came to look and see and what i did not hear

but mostly from the knowledge that my life is based on fear

©[copyright]2004 Dave Hunter

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank
Date: December 7, 2004 at 7:25:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, I can hear orchestral music to that sentence!!!!  Well spoke.
KD

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 12:18 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Dr.Tom wrote:

“I would just hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private
spaces and into the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible
tool for the human spirit.”

I’m hoping with you,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: tomo7@starband.net [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 20:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Ron and Frank,

Here’s a link to a very comprehensive rehab site online that you can study
and network with, if you like…

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/

I can’t see a “hostile chord” in my post, Ron.  I agree with Kirsty that
your being real is appreciated by me as a virtue. Martee’s advice to slow
down and work these suggestions from a center is profound. Maybe my
hostility toward the terrible political and economic realities we face in
the world today, whether addicted or not, just rode across these electrons
and felt like it was aimed at you. Au contraire…by being a mindvoxvegian
you are on my “A” list.

I notice that with all your authentic pain and fear, you always support
and appreciate others who share their own problems with us. I would just
hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private spaces and into
the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible tool for the
human spirit. I confess to being hostile toward all threats to my spirit,
be they in my own mind, or some lizard multi-national’s board room. Don’t
let it bother you, I just use the anger like a coach’s whistle.

Peace and Justice.

Dr. Tom

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank
Date: December 7, 2004 at 6:57:22 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That is also my vision and one which I believe has begun.
Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Dr.Tom wrote:

“I would just hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private
spaces and into the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible
tool for the human spirit.”

I’m hoping with you,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: tomo7@starband.net [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 20:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Ron and Frank,

Here’s a link to a very comprehensive rehab site online that you can study
and network with, if you like…

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/

I can’t see a “hostile chord” in my post, Ron. I agree with Kirsty that
your being real is appreciated by me as a virtue. Martee’s advice to slow
down and work these suggestions from a center is profound. Maybe my
hostility toward the terrible political and economic realities we face in
the world today, whether addicted or not, just rode across these electrons
and felt like it was aimed at you. Au contraire…by being a mindvoxvegian
you are on my “A” list.

I notice that with all your authentic pain and fear, you always support
and appreciate others who share their own problems with us. I would just
hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private spaces and into
the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible tool for the
human spirit. I confess to being hostile toward all threats to my spirit,
be they in my own mind, or some lizard multi-national’s board room. Don’t
let it bother you, I just use the anger like a coach’s whistle.

Peace and Justice.

Dr. Tom

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] scarfing down the medicine
Date: December 7, 2004 at 6:30:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

scarfing down the medicine

and laying on my side

212 brown capsules churning with the tide

nervous as a pigeon

smaller than a flea

i struggle with my ego and if it’s really me

a great green forest

pouring out my throat

styrofoam and rubbers

floating in my moat

broken teeth and spoken dreams splatter on the floor

i heave and gag and spew my soul until there is no more

shuddering from the glick i curl into a ball

the clouds so thick and dark and deep i cannot see at all

a great tree erupts and splits my head in two

in a moment carved in time that was really meant for you

not dead from the winter

but big and green and bright

sharing secret codes of wisdom and riddles out of sight

a noise spins my head

i turn around to see

a great fanged beetle pushing a grinning skull at me

cobwebs in her mouth and

the planets in her eye

satellites and moon beams

just floating right on by

pyramids of ancients and crows pecking at my face

i feel so at home in this deep forgotten space

a familiar face etched in stone slowly drifting by

cracks, crumbles and disappears before i wonder why

a splintered boardwalk plank

beaten by the feet

of a thousand sea sick sailors marching to the beat

of a hurdy gurdy jingle

crackling thru the air

boiled in wax and hung to dry

as if they really didn’t care

my soul writhes in hunger

the room begins to spin

i’m trembling from so far away and so deep within

my throat starts to burn

and my eyes begin to tear

of what i came to look and see and what i did not hear

but mostly from the knowledge that my life is based on fear

©[copyright]2004 Dave Hunter

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank
Date: December 7, 2004 at 6:18:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dr.Tom wrote:

“I would just hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private
spaces and into the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible
tool for the human spirit.”

I’m hoping with you,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: tomo7@starband.net [mailto:tomo7@starband.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 20:50
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank

Ron and Frank,

Here’s a link to a very comprehensive rehab site online that you can study
and network with, if you like…

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/

I can’t see a “hostile chord” in my post, Ron.  I agree with Kirsty that
your being real is appreciated by me as a virtue. Martee’s advice to slow
down and work these suggestions from a center is profound. Maybe my
hostility toward the terrible political and economic realities we face in
the world today, whether addicted or not, just rode across these electrons
and felt like it was aimed at you. Au contraire…by being a mindvoxvegian
you are on my “A” list.

I notice that with all your authentic pain and fear, you always support
and appreciate others who share their own problems with us. I would just
hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private spaces and into
the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible tool for the
human spirit. I confess to being hostile toward all threats to my spirit,
be they in my own mind, or some lizard multi-national’s board room. Don’t
let it bother you, I just use the anger like a coach’s whistle.

Peace and Justice.

Dr. Tom

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: [Ibogaine] America’s Love Affair with Bush
Date: December 7, 2004 at 6:04:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/nyc/47694053.html

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Reforming NY’s Rockefeller Drug Laws – Congrats Dana???
Date: December 7, 2004 at 5:42:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

See NYT article below.  Still looks harsh.. but
congrats Dana and compadres!!!

Love and Light
(and Chappy Channukah!)

Rachel’n’Jeff

Tentative Deal Is Reached on Easing N.Y. Drug
Sentences

December 7, 2004
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

ALBANY, N.Y. — Negotiators reached a tentative deal
Tuesday to ease some of the harshest mandatory prison
sentences under the state drug statutes that carry
formerGov. Nelson Rockefeller’s name. The Legislature
wanted to approve the agreement as early as Tuesday
afternoon.

Among the reforms would be to change the current
15-years-to-life maximum sentence under the harshest
of the drug statutes to a determinate sentence of
eight years. That would make offenders eligible for
release in less than seven years.

The proposal would also eliminate the maximum term of
life for the most serious offenses. The common
sentence of three years to life for many offenders
would become a determinate sentence of three years,
making offenders eligible for release in just over 2.5
years.

The roughly 400 inmates serving time under the
harshest
Rockefeller drug sentences — either 15-years-to-life
or 25-years-to-life — would be allowed to ask their
sentencing courts to reduce their prison time in line
with the new sentencing guidelines.

The agreement would also make nonviolent drug
offenders
eligible sooner for treatment programs and double the
amounts, by weight, of heroin and other controlled
substances that defendants have to be caught with to
qualify for the harshest of charges against
defendants.

Two longtime goals of drug law reformers — giving
near-total sentencing discretion to judges and
allowing
some offenders to avoid prison entirely in favor of
treatment — are not included in the agreement.

“We believe this is half a step in the right
direction,” said Michael Blain, director of public
policy for the Drug Policy Alliance. “We believe that
given some current changes in the political climate in
Albany, people are beginning to rethink bad drug
policy.”

State Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno said his
Republican members would discuss the agreement among
themselves Tuesday and that they expected to bring it
to the floor for an immediate vote if they get the
needed “message of necessity” from Gov. George Pataki.
Pataki’s office was involved in the negotiations on
the measure.

Majority Republicans in the Senate have resisted
sweeping changes to the drug statutes, especially ones
that would weaken the role of district attorneys in
determining which drug offenders should be given
treatment.

Critics of the mandatory drug laws say they’ve caused
too many low-level offenders and addicts to spend too
much time in state prison. They also say minority
offenders are disproportionately sent to prison under
the statutes.

Rockefeller, a Republican, pushed for the maximum-life
sentences and other harsh punishments for drug
offenders during an era when inner cities in the state
were being inundated by heroin addiction. Conservative
legislators also complained at the time that liberal
judges, primarily in New York City, were letting
serious drug offenders off with light sentences.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 7, 2004 at 5:22:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This test is very interesting (Thank you Francis), and if it is true, then I have the GABA deficiency from hell. Panic attacks, klonipin prescriptions, history of anxiety disorders in family, shaky without food, on the thin side, etc….. I found this article Taking Aim at Anxiety from ‘Scientific America’. Here is the link:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000DE9A1-D85C-1C63-B882809EC588ED9F&sc=I100322
I know there were some other GABA links sent to the list and I apologize if someone already sent this. The test with the mice will hopefully lead to drugs that target the main anxiety receptor alpha-2 GABA, and won’t make people so drowsy. Before I used opiates to combat my panic problems I took klonipin, but because most of the attacks were in school, I would rather just not go to class, because if I took the klonipin then I’d come close to sleeping through class, and if I didn’t I’d come close to fleeing the room if I had a panic attack. Maybe if they come out with something better, I can use it to help with the panic attacks I’ll get when I come off suboxone. It’s the main reason I’m still on it. It’s better than being on smack (Thank You Ibogaine), but I’d still like to be totally opiate free. Anybody else think that GABA problems were part of the cause of their opiate addiction? Anybody taking anything to remedy the situation, and if so, what are you taking, how long, notice any results? I saw that B vitamins are recommended to counter the problem, but I have noticed that whenever I take B I end up haing anxiety attacks. Any ideas?

— On Tue 12/07, The Garden < GardenRestaurant@comcast.net > wrote:

From: The Garden [mailto: GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 11:53:56 -0500
Subject: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse

First part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe
for both deficiencie

Is GABA deficiencie at the Root problem of your substance abuse problem?

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number of
points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is : “no”

– Are sedatives or ” downer your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points
………………

– Is alcohol your drug of choice ? if yes, 2 points
……………..

– Does alcohol relax you or help you sleep ?If yes 4 points
………………

– Have you ever obtained relief from symtoms of anxiety by taking
prescriptions drugs such as Ativan, Klonopin, Valium, or xanaz, or by taking
sedatives? If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you often have symptoms such as irritability, or dizziness when you go
four hours or more without food ?
If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you have a history of panic attacks or severe anxiety ? If yes, 3points
………………

-Do you have a tendency to be thin or underwait? If yes, 2 points
………………

-Do you have a problem sleeping, specialy falling asleep ? If yes 2 points
……………….

-Do you have sugar cravings? If yes 2 points
……………..

– Is there a history of anxiety or panic disorder in your family ? If yes, 2
points
……………..

TOTAL ………………
Total of 11 to 14 points. You ar probably GABA-deficient.
Total of 15 or more points.You are very probably GABA-deficient

If you have scored either probable or very probable, the essential nutrients
you should take to corrected this deficiency are listed below. Take them as
soon is possible. This should reduce or eliminate your substance urges and
others symptoms in 24 to seventy-two hours

ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS FOR GABA DEFICIENCY
Take the following primary nutrients if you are GABA deficient.
L-GLUTAMINE Up to 3000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner
and bedtime
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
L-THAURINE Up to 1 000 mg witch dose of glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE 1 capsule with each dose of glutamine ,
during a meal

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg; iron 20 mg; zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg; molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
your addiction now”

I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

🙂 I know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
God Bless
Francis

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No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 7, 2004 at 4:58:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Cheers heaps for that…does this mean we need MORE ibo?? Egads hope not! ON
a budget here!
The first time I tried it (crude form) I had to try and ingest about 130
capsules! This took a while,and got most of em down before I threw up. This
lasted a couple of days….both ends…..but I don’t ever remember
withdrawal symptoms! Sick as a … really sick thing.. but not ONE
withdrawal symptom.  Thus my eagerness to try again with more pure stuff.
I think with that last experience I was just having a good clean out).
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 8 December 2004 4:37 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….

Kirsty,

I have a super fast metabolism also, and YES, I
believe it does play a part in the Ibo process.  The
first time I dosed, I ripped through the Ibo so fast
that at the 14-16 hour mark I started getting some
withdrawal symptoms.

What worked for me-the second time- was to stagger my
doses in 200mg increments- that is, ingest 200mg, wait
one hour, ingest another, wait as long as necessary,
repeat until full therapeutic dose is consumed.  The
first time ( I treated myself), I ingested about
700-800mg all at once, and promptly threw up about 50
minutes later.

You gotta work with your body…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 7, 2004 at 4:43:45 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Like I said, I know where you’re at… and unless we vent, fume, mutter,
froth at the bit etc, how are we going to get the advice and support we
need?  You don’t have my sympathy, you have my compassion, and if wanted, my
friendship :o)
Kirk


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 7, 2004 at 4:01:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen
I have followed your journey with much interest, I am happy for you and your
accomplishment. A new life!!!!!! I have spoke(on-line) briefly with Sara
also so have been interested in your reports and experiance. I am
contemplating making the journey off of 600+ mg Meth. for the past several
years. As you can imagine I have received much interesting input/advice
regarding this journey. Fortunately, qualified providers, I believe, are
interested in helping/working with me. Sara has expressed an interest in
exploring the idea. I have come off H many times, a variety of ways, never
Meth. I perked-up at your comment “I got fire burning in me again” that is
an incredibly exciting space to be, and you’ve earned it!!!
bf

—–Original Message—–
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:29 AM
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Julie,
Nice to hear from you.
Day 21,feeling (was feeling very anxious) as I ran out of fibroplex
Which is a magnesium compound (basically).
Sister sent some got it today,now tolerable.

Legs still not firmly grounded,still feel as if the marrow in my legs is
Not there,hollow feeling.But slowly filling. Restless and home sick.
I am feeling a lot better though I must say.

Tommorow I go to Amsterdam city and I will stay there for 4 days until the
12th then yee ha HOME.Mmmmm I suppose it is my last night here.

Sara is great,it is as if I was doing this at mums place.You are looked
after quite well,and she knows how to dose. I tell you,The cannabis tea,
Cookies and mushrooms helped more than I would have ever thought. helped
tremendously.I was quite unsettled about tripping whilst hangingout,but it
isn’t really tripping,its mushrooms as they were created.

All legal here in Amsterdam,people are allowed to use cannabis for pain
relief or fun.You can legally buy mushrooms in a coffee shop.

I tell you what, I miss company,looking forward to chatting with the girls
and guys in these coffee shops,do you know they even have a hash museum.

How are you feeling now Julie? How many days has it been?
How are you feeling Randy and how many days,where’s sean gone?

Still a bit spacy in the head energy slowly building.If I get to bored and
anxious I just drink some cannabis tea,…….ahh, allright,smoke a joint
and listen to U2,pinkfloyd,and ELO,wish I had brought more cd’s.

Lower back still achey,restless.My mind is becoming clearer.I do feel like a
ciggy now and again,though I am a strong person,I just say,’no
thanks”.Well,…
Not quite that easy.

Oh,yea,I got fire burning in me again,and it feels great.It’s like,….WOW.
A lot of exhausted crying,but really good stuff. I now know for sure,my
brother is ok.It’s almost like I spoke to him but I canot remember what was
said,it was like he was really happy with me lots of love pouring from
him,smiling,just beautiful. We were also the best of mates,confidants.
I was also shown some parts of my life where something hurt me without me
consciously knowing.Then I would cry the blockage out.

WOW we are sensitive beings.

I got spunk in my veins again,like I did at 15 (almost).
I re read the last sentence and think,wow you were just a baby a kid.
Now that kid is free,and I can do anything.

With love Jasen,….smiling.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 17:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 7, 2004 at 3:56:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, I’m not sure what you see as freaky – did you understand that
a woman did a 3-week benzo detox under medical supervision using a
mild drug in relatively low dose? Have you considered contacting
the doctors who did it?

thank you for the info. freaky stuff. ron
—– Original Message —–
Since GABA has been coming up in the discussion of benzos, I
wonder
if gabapentin (Neurontin) could be of any use in a benzo detox.
Here’s one case where it helped:

http://www.cpa-
apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/April/Letters3.asp

…Within 3 weeks of admission, she
was benzodiazepine-free.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Excellent THC/endocannabinoid article, Scientific American, Dec. issue
Date: December 7, 2004 at 3:38:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/7/04 10:32:36 AM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Dear list,

Just wanted to let you know that the December issue of
Scientific American has an excellent article on
THC/endocannabinoids, and their application in
medicine and healing.

Sara, I believe it might explain why pot prevents
seizures.  I would recommend this read to everyone,
med folks and lay people alike…

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=0008F53F-80F7
-119B-80F783414B7F0000

love Julie

Julia and list,

I think it is still available as a free pdf file so take a look at a paper
providing an opposing viewpoint and one I find difficult to accept.

Prospective cohort study of cannabis use, predisposition for psychosis, and
psychotic symptoms in young people
Cécile Henquet, Lydia Krabbendam, Janneke Spauwen, Charles Kaplan, Roselind
Lieb, Hans-Ulrich Wittchen, Jim van Os
BMJ, doi:10.1136/bmj.38267.664086.63 (published 1 December 2004)

Go to http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/onlinefirst_date.shtml

Then scroll down till you get to the article.

Howard

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From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak/aftercare for Frank
Date: December 7, 2004 at 2:50:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron and Frank,

Here’s a link to a very comprehensive rehab site online that you can study
and network with, if you like…

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/

I can’t see a “hostile chord” in my post, Ron.  I agree with Kirsty that
your being real is appreciated by me as a virtue. Martee’s advice to slow
down and work these suggestions from a center is profound. Maybe my
hostility toward the terrible political and economic realities we face in
the world today, whether addicted or not, just rode across these electrons
and felt like it was aimed at you. Au contraire…by being a mindvoxvegian
you are on my “A” list.

I notice that with all your authentic pain and fear, you always support
and appreciate others who share their own problems with us. I would just
hope to nudge us all into taking Ibo out from our private spaces and into
the larger mass of humanity where it will be an incredible tool for the
human spirit. I confess to being hostile toward all threats to my spirit,
be they in my own mind, or some lizard multi-national’s board room. Don’t
let it bother you, I just use the anger like a coach’s whistle.

Peace and Justice.

Dr. Tom

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] why all these viruses?????????
Date: December 7, 2004 at 2:40:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All my email is full of them from all directions since yesterday.
Another virus that looks like it has infected half the windows users on
the internet. I don’t use windows either 😉 Linux here, changing over
to Apple after Christmas 🙂

.:vector:.

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi list,

I have been getting emails(private AND forum) with
attachments that are loaded with the Beagle virus.
Everyone: listen to Patrick; don’t open these
attachments, unless you scan them first…

Heads up,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] why all these viruses?????????
Date: December 7, 2004 at 2:14:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list,

I have been getting emails(private AND forum) with
attachments that are loaded with the Beagle virus.
Everyone: listen to Patrick; don’t open these
attachments, unless you scan them first…

Heads up,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 7, 2004 at 1:29:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
Nice to hear from you.
Day 21,feeling (was feeling very anxious) as I ran out of fibroplex
Which is a magnesium compound (basically).
Sister sent some got it today,now tolerable.

Legs still not firmly grounded,still feel as if the marrow in my legs is
Not there,hollow feeling.But slowly filling. Restless and home sick.
I am feeling a lot better though I must say.

Tommorow I go to Amsterdam city and I will stay there for 4 days until the
12th then yee ha HOME.Mmmmm I suppose it is my last night here.

Sara is great,it is as if I was doing this at mums place.You are looked
after quite well,and she knows how to dose. I tell you,The cannabis tea,
Cookies and mushrooms helped more than I would have ever thought. helped
tremendously.I was quite unsettled about tripping whilst hangingout,but it
isn’t really tripping,its mushrooms as they were created.

All legal here in Amsterdam,people are allowed to use cannabis for pain
relief or fun.You can legally buy mushrooms in a coffee shop.

I tell you what, I miss company,looking forward to chatting with the girls
and guys in these coffee shops,do you know they even have a hash museum.

How are you feeling now Julie? How many days has it been?
How are you feeling Randy and how many days,where’s sean gone?

Still a bit spacy in the head energy slowly building.If I get to bored and
anxious I just drink some cannabis tea,…….ahh, allright,smoke a joint
and listen to U2,pinkfloyd,and ELO,wish I had brought more cd’s.

Lower back still achey,restless.My mind is becoming clearer.I do feel like a
ciggy now and again,though I am a strong person,I just say,’no
thanks”.Well,…
Not quite that easy.

Oh,yea,I got fire burning in me again,and it feels great.It’s like,….WOW.
A lot of exhausted crying,but really good stuff. I now know for sure,my
brother is ok.It’s almost like I spoke to him but I canot remember what was
said,it was like he was really happy with me lots of love pouring from
him,smiling,just beautiful. We were also the best of mates,confidants.
I was also shown some parts of my life where something hurt me without me
consciously knowing.Then I would cry the blockage out.

WOW we are sensitive beings.

I got spunk in my veins again,like I did at 15 (almost).
I re read the last sentence and think,wow you were just a baby a kid.
Now that kid is free,and I can do anything.

With love Jasen,….smiling.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 17:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “CallieMimosa” <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:
Date: December 7, 2004 at 1:09:39 PM EST
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>fotogalary and Music

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST catecholamine deficiency as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 7, 2004 at 1:07:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

SELF TEST FOR CATHECOLAMINE DEFICIENCY

Second part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing
self TEST for catecholamine deficienciy as root of your drug abuse

– Is either cocaine or amphetanine your drug of choice? if yes 5 points.
………………

– Do you smoke cigarettes, or use nicotine in another form, such as
smokeless tobacco ?
if one pack a day or less one point. If 2 pack a day, 2 points,. If three or
more pack a day, 3 points.  ………….

– If you have used marijuana, doesit excite you or have a “speedy” effect on
you ? If yes 2 points

-Is there history of mania in your family ? If yes 2 points

-Is ther a history of depression in your family ? If yes 2 points

-Do you often experience tiredness, loss of energy, or an inability to feel
pleasure ? If yes, 3 points

-Are you thrill- seeker or risk taker ? If, yes 3 points

– Do you respond positively to tricyclic anti depressant drugs, such as
tofranil, blavil, endep, or pamelor ?
If yes, 5 points

-Do you respond positively to prescription drugs like : ritalin, cylere,
adderall, or methamphetamine ?
If yes, 5 points

TOTAL
Total of 11 to 14 points , you are probably catecholamine deficient.
Total of 15 or more, you are very probably catecholamine deficient

If you have scored either probable or very probable, the essential
nutrients
you should take to corrected this deficiency are listed below. Take them
as
soon is possible. This should reduce or eliminate your substance urges and
others symptoms in 24 to seventy-two hours

ESSENTAL NUTRIENTS
TYROSINE up to 1.500 mg 3 timesdaily, 1 hour before meals
L-GLUTAMINE  up to 1.000 mg 3 time daily, 1 hour before meals.
B-COMPLEX VITAMINE CAPSULE  at least one capsule 3 times daily with tyrosine
and glutamine
VITAMINEC  at least 500mg 3 times a day

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney
disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
your addiction now”

I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
God Bless
Francis

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] self TEST for GABA deficiencie as root of your drug abuse
Date: December 7, 2004 at 11:53:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First part of four test on Biochemical rebalancing

If you find a double deficiencie DO NOT DOUBLE  the amounts of any one of
the nutrients that is prescribe
for both deficiencie

Is GABA deficiencie at the Root problem of your substance abuse problem?

If your answer is yes to any of the following questions, enter the number of
points indicated in the blank space. Enter 0 if your answer is :  “no”

– Are sedatives or ” downer your drug of choice? if yes, 3 points
………………

– Is alcohol your drug of choice ? if yes, 2 points
……………..

– Does alcohol relax you or help you sleep ?If yes 4 points
………………

– Have you ever obtained relief from symtoms of anxiety by taking
prescriptions drugs such as Ativan, Klonopin, Valium, or xanaz, or by taking
sedatives? If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you often have symptoms such as irritability, or dizziness when you go
four hours or more  without food ?
If yes, 5 points
……………..

-Do you have a history of panic attacks or severe anxiety ? If yes, 3points
………………

-Do you have a tendency to be thin or underwait? If yes, 2 points
………………

-Do you have a problem sleeping, specialy falling asleep ? If yes 2 points
……………….

-Do you have sugar cravings? If yes 2 points
……………..

– Is there a history of anxiety or panic disorder in your family ? If yes, 2
points
……………..

TOTAL                   ………………
Total of 11 to 14 points. You ar probably GABA-deficient.
Total  of 15 or more points.You are very probably GABA-deficient

If you have scored either probable or very probable, the essential nutrients
you should take to corrected this deficiency are listed below. Take them as
soon is possible. This should reduce or eliminate your substance urges and
others symptoms in 24 to seventy-two hours

ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS FOR GABA DEFICIENCY
Take the following primary nutrients if you are GABA deficient.
L-GLUTAMINE Up to 3000mg 3 times daily, 1 hour before breakfast and dinner
and bedtime
Note : if you have cirhosis of the liver, or severe liver disease, you
should consult your doctor before taking Glutamine
L-THAURINE    Up to 1 000 mg witch dose of glutamine
B-COMPLEX VITAMINCAPSULE          1 capsule with each dose of glutamine ,
during a meal

MULTIMINERAL SUPPLEMENT
Make sure your mineral supplement contains the following, and take enought
tablets each days to roughtly equal the following dosage: Calcium 1 000mg;
Magesium, 300 mg; Potassium, 100 mg;    iron 20 mg;   zinc, 20 mg;
Manganese,6 ; copper, 1 mg;
1mg chromium; 400 mg selenium; 60 mcg;    molybdenum, 50mcg.
NOTE If you are receiving dialysis treatments or have sever kidney disease,
you should consult your doctor
before taking supplements.

Copyrights Charles Gant, MD, PHD and  Greg Lewis PHD From the book ” End
your addiction now”

I took the liberty to copy this test for the List.

🙂 I  know this is not right, but how could this be wrong ?/!
God Bless
Francis

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 7, 2004 at 11:27:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 7, 2004 at 10:55:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can’t believe I am not smoking.No methadone,No
heroin
or cocaine. Nhaata.

WOW.
With love Jasen.

rock.  fucking solid brother.  keep that shit up man.

fukn a
n

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 7, 2004 at 10:36:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kirsty,

I have a super fast metabolism also, and YES, I
believe it does play a part in the Ibo process.  The
first time I dosed, I ripped through the Ibo so fast
that at the 14-16 hour mark I started getting some
withdrawal symptoms.

What worked for me-the second time- was to stagger my
doses in 200mg increments- that is, ingest 200mg, wait
one hour, ingest another, wait as long as necessary,
repeat until full therapeutic dose is consumed.  The
first time ( I treated myself), I ingested about
700-800mg all at once, and promptly threw up about 50
minutes later.

You gotta work with your body…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Excellent THC/endocannabinoid article, Scientific American, Dec. issue
Date: December 7, 2004 at 10:30:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

Just wanted to let you know that the December issue of
Scientific American has an excellent article on
THC/endocannabinoids, and their application in
medicine and healing.

Sara, I believe it might explain why pot prevents
seizures.  I would recommend this read to everyone,
med folks and lay people alike…

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=0008F53F-80F7-119B-80F783414B7F0000

love Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:45:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m surprised by the encouragement despite my roll in self pity. thanks, ron, to be free again will take a lot of work
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:45 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

Ron, I have a fair idea where you are in your head….I’ve been there, so
don’t apologise, and people get offended if they chose to.
Keep being real, that’s why I like ya!~
Kirsty Dawn

—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 7:45 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

sorry for the pity , misery tenure of my earlier emails. never my intentions

to slow anyone’s recovery or offend. many of you guys have more knowledge of

this stuff than i do. the well timed slap was very informative. hey, all i
have is questions, no answers, sorry to have included the personal profile
in posing them. thanks for your time in responding. didn’t mean to strike
such a hostile chord from  someone who is obviously a healer. wishing you
the continued peaceful path you’re on, ron
—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

Ron, and the list:

Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research.  Learn a little too
much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs.  Just the way it
is in these New Dark Ages.

Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it.  I
hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
might still be alive to benefit.

Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list.  You can
google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
on the science behind them. When you get to what makes sense and you want
to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
we can all learn from you.

Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
herbal tonics spin out from here..).

Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
trials by hustling to pay for each fix.

As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.

That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell.  There are
many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
opinion.

So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
a while.  –Dr. Tom

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 7, 2004 at 8:43:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you. you guys are great! ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron I must repeat myself. If Sara says she can help you I would bet my grandfathers sax that she can. And that sax is the only thing except for my family I didn’t lose in my addiction. None of this is cut and dry. We all took a leap of faith. I’ve had major colon surgery that I didn’t talk about because I was afraid they wouldn’t treat me. I wanted to be clean so I took a leap of faith. My mother held her breath for 2 days while I tripped. It never entered my mind while I was in the holodeck. Ibogaine is a gift from GOD and Mother Nature. They know what to do better than we do. Hang tough dude.         Randy

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 7, 2004 at 7:21:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: timeless [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 06 December 2004 17:47
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction

Hi Nick !

You wrote :
I don’t argue there are different types of demon, whatever.
Just pointing
out that in actuality they are all You! All just facets of Yourself. The
discriminatory function of mind that allows us to say this thing is
different from that itself proceeds from one core assumption – that You
are
this body, these feelings, this mind. This is also fine but it
is only one
aspect of who you are – it is who you are as an ego, as a
relative entity
surrounded by other relative entities.

If you take a big dose of iboga, as during Bwiti initiation, the
stranglehold of ego-consciousness can be broken for a while and
the mind’s
partitioning is cut through. They called it “breaking open the head.”

*Who are they ?

Hi Francis,

“They” are the Bwiti, an African religious group who use iboga. Long may
they continue!

In
this space you are joined to the universal mind. You experience the
un-barrieredness of life, just flowing where it will. And you are aware
that
it is all You.

* How do you know it is all you ? How the observer could be the subject of
his observation ?

It is paradoxical to the mind, yes! It’s non-dual consciousness, nothing
looks different but subject-object distinction doesn’t arise. Nothing to do!

From this perspective and from the memory of this experience
you can see that it matters not what something looks like for what it
fundamentally IS is You. Big demons, little demons, ones with
pointy teeth
or big scary hebrew names, it just doesn’t matter because they are all
You.
They are all what you are giving yourself to grow as an ego.

* How can I give me something myself that I dont know ?

Because in the experience of ego consciousness there are different layers of
selfhood. There’s a You wanting stuff, there’s a You teaching You, there’s a
You avoiding You, etc. We constantly open ourselves up to new opportunities
for self-discovery in our behaviour, especially around choice of partner –
who we fancy, who we avoid, who we end up with, etc. Behind this behaviour
are the teaching aspects of our psyche, some trying to draw us deeper into
self-knowledge, some trying to lead us away.

So…to try and cast them out is merely the discriminatory function of
mind
operating from an unenlightened,

* Who said unenlightened ? How do I know when I am enligthed or not. Who
said so ?

I don’t know about enlightenment, I just mean not-so-aware. It’s like, it’s
fine to cast away demons but you can also look deeper. How do you know what
is good or bad? Who is deciding?

fear-based perspective.

* Who said so ?  You can cast entities out of yourself or from
somebody else
out of compassion or love.For the entitie or yourself.

Fair enough.

And for sure it
will go on. But, once the stranglehold of ego-consciousness is
broken for
a
while

* How do you  know the exact moment that our ego-consciousness is broken.
Who tell you is broken and that is not a mere effect of  your
allucination ?

How do you ever know anything? The deeper you look into yourself, the less
you know. The mind builds castles onto thin air, assumptions upon
assumptions. What to do!?

then the sheer folly of trying to cast anything out of anywhere will
be so apparent that the fear will dissipate and what we are
afraid of can
be
looked at more closely.

* I try to believe in what’s work and that a deliberate choice . If my
belief is not working I change it.

Esample :If you come to see me and have a  recurent nightmare, phobia or
pain. I will try to find a way to go the roots of it. Generaly I use Time
line Therapie or I will go further with in time with a Past Life
Therapie.
Then we find the event and change the modalities of it. You come back and
the nightmare, phobia or pain are gone. That’s work, I don’t know exactly
why and who but I was looking for a result and I had it. That enought for
me.
I always ask if it’s something or someone his there  in the (client –
friend – patient ) that would like to tell me something.If
someone answer me
I will work with the entitie with the same approach: gentle, patient and
compassionate but firm and will help the entitie to go to the Light. The
client – friend – patient will feel and incredible release,
sometimes even a
bit of sadeness ( they’ve been toghether for many years ) and the symptoms
will disappears. Generally what I found are lost soul too frightened to
leave this dimension.
I can’t change my belief system on entities or demons .
Why ? this will condemn me to denie thousand of years of knowledge
accumulated by the human familly all over the planet.  Second I
will have to
give up a precious tool in helping others.Believe me , I am a reluctant
practitioner when it comes to this type of work 🙂 because I am by nature
not very courageous but I have a strong faith and believe in the power of
compassion in our life.
God Bless
Francis

Fair enough. If you like your work I think it’s great.

All a demon is, at the end of the day, is a reaction to the possibility of
greater freedom. A chance for more openness presents itself and there is
naturally a two-sided reaction – a Yes, go for it, and a No, too scary! The
No takes form in the mind and eventually becomes the demon. At the heart of
any demon is just the fear of coming closer, more intimate.

with love

Nick

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 7, 2004 at 5:22:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron I must repeat myself. If Sara says she can help you I would bet my grandfathers sax that she can. And that sax is the only thing except for my family I didn’t lose in my addiction. None of this is cut and dry. We all took a leap of faith. I’ve had major colon surgery that I didn’t talk about because I was afraid they wouldn’t treat me. I wanted to be clean so I took a leap of faith. My mother held her breath for 2 days while I tripped. It never entered my mind while I was in the holodeck. Ibogaine is a gift from GOD and Mother Nature. They know what to do better than we do. Hang tough dude.         Randy

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] slightly OT :: Miami medical school gets $100 million
Date: December 7, 2004 at 4:40:07 AM EST
To: sacrament@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

attn: mash / p$ – PUT IT TWARDS Ib0!@#

++++

Miami medical school gets $100 million

Monday, December 6, 2004 Posted: 10:26 PM EST (0326 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (AP) — The University of Miami School of Medicine
announced its largest donation ever Monday: $100 million from the family
of a construction magnate who died in 2002.

University President Donna Shalala said the medical school has been
renamed the Leonard M. Miller School of Medicine in his honor.

“This generous gift will lead us into a new era of scientific discovery
and medical breakthroughs that will benefit our South Florida community
and beyond,” said Dean Colson, chairman of the University of Miami Board
of Trustees.

Miller, a native of New Bedford, Massachusetts, moved to Miami and started
a construction company with a $10,000 investment in 1954. That company
became Lennar Corp., now a Fortune 500 company with $8.9 billion in 2003
sales.

Miller served on the university’s board of trustees for 20 years. He was
treated by the medical school’s doctors at Jackson Memorial Hospital for
liver cancer before he died.

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 7, 2004 at 3:51:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oh, really….. is metabolism a factor in taking Ibogaine? Mine is pretty rapid (to say the least, either that or chocolate isn’t fattening lol wouldn’t that be great???? Just finished off the 10 kg block tonight).
Would be interested on thoughts on metabolism….if it’s been said or written scuse me I get lazy
Kirk
From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com [mailto:ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 12:01 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….

Hi,
     Well, as my granddad on my mom’s side used to say, ” can ya mash (excuse the synchronicity ) patatoes!
     Imagine receiving a treatment for $10,500 by the official authority on the process, and being convinced you were significantly underdosed, coming home still very, very dope sick.  Then less than a few weeks later traveling clear across the U.S. to receive another session with the underground in N.Y.C. for a small fraction of the initial cost.  We live in a strange world.
     Anyway, i’ve been on the phone( my largest monthly expense ) with the contingency of ibo angels in The City and word has it Beatrise is doing very well.  She does have a fast metabolism and at least to some degree this could account for her initial experience because she is burning through a lot of ibogaine both quickly and as far as we could see, comfortably. 
      I think she is doing great so far.  She will speak for herself i would guess in a couple of days, perhaps even sooner.
                                                                                                                                  f.
OK, guys, my guide is here. I’m getting ready to get administered to at 12 
pm EST. In 45 minutes. Pretty sick now. Very anxious, nervous. This is my 
second time, as some of you may know. The first was last month and was a 
screw up. I’ll post all about it and this time when I’m through here. Could be 
days, but hopefully not too long! Whatever your beliefs, please say a quick 
prayer for me! I need this part of my life to be through, I’m so sick and tired 
of being sick and tired. Could use all the help I can get. Keep me in mind, 
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice




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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 7, 2004 at 3:45:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, I have a fair idea where you are in your head….I’ve been there, so
don’t apologise, and people get offended if they chose to.
Keep being real, that’s why I like ya!~
Kirsty Dawn

—–Original Message—–
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 2004 7:45 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

sorry for the pity , misery tenure of my earlier emails. never my intentions

to slow anyone’s recovery or offend. many of you guys have more knowledge of

this stuff than i do. the well timed slap was very informative. hey, all i
have is questions, no answers, sorry to have included the personal profile
in posing them. thanks for your time in responding. didn’t mean to strike
such a hostile chord from  someone who is obviously a healer. wishing you
the continued peaceful path you’re on, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

Ron, and the list:

Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research.  Learn a little too
much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs.  Just the way it
is in these New Dark Ages.

Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it.  I
hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
might still be alive to benefit.

Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list.  You can
google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
on the science behind them. When you get to what makes sense and you want
to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
we can all learn from you.

Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
herbal tonics spin out from here..).

Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
trials by hustling to pay for each fix.

As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.

That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell.  There are
many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
opinion.

So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
a while.  –Dr. Tom

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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours
Date: December 7, 2004 at 3:18:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I gather since I am receiving messages I must be able to send as well. But that does not seem to be the case. I read your message but it still doesn’t really explain what the problem is or was. Please enlighten me.

Thank you,

Julian Robinson

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours
Date: December 7, 2004 at 3:01:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No route to host means you sent that during the 6 hours or so when they
changed something on the servers and the list was offline friday night.

.:vector:.

— Sapphirestardus@aol.com wrote:

This is the other letter that was returned?
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com>
Date: December 3, 2004 10:50:40 PM EST
To: <Sapphirestardus@aol.com>
Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours

The original message was received at Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:43:00 -0500
(EST)
from imo-d22.mail.aol.com [172.18.157.196]

*** ATTENTION ***

Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with

its
delivery.  The address which was undeliverable is listed in the
section
labeled: “—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors
—–“.

The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the
section
labeled: “—– Transcript of Session Follows —–“.

The line beginning with “<<<” describes the specific reason your
e-mail
could
not be delivered.  The next line contains a second error message
which
is a
general translation for other e-mail servers.

Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail
administrator or Postmaster at that destination.

–AOL Postmaster

—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —–
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—– Transcript of session follows —–
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>… Deferred: No route to host
Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
Message will be deleted from queue
Final-Recipient: RFC822; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Remote-MTA: DNS; mindvox.com
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:50:40 -0500 (EST)
Received: from  imo-d22.mx.aol.com (imo-d22.mail.aol.com
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for <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:16:39 -0500
(EST)
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Message-ID: <1f7.2f538ea.2ee25be7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:16:39 EST
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
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__________________________________
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours
Date: December 7, 2004 at 2:47:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is the other letter that was returned?
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com>
Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours
Date: December 3, 2004 at 10:50:40 PM EST
To: <Sapphirestardus@aol.com>

The original message was received at Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:43:00 -0500 (EST)
from imo-d22.mail.aol.com [172.18.157.196]

*** ATTENTION ***

Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its
delivery.  The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section
labeled: “—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —–“.

The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section
labeled: “—– Transcript of Session Follows —–“.

The line beginning with “<<<” describes the specific reason your e-mail could
not be delivered.  The next line contains a second error message which is a
general translation for other e-mail servers.

Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail
administrator or Postmaster at that destination.

–AOL Postmaster

—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —–
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>

—– Transcript of session follows —–
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>… Deferred: No route to host
Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
Message will be deleted from queue
Final-Recipient: RFC822; ibogaine@mindvox.com
Action: failed
Status: 4.4.7
Remote-MTA: DNS; mindvox.com
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:50:40 -0500 (EST)
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for <ibogaine@mindvox.com>; Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:16:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Message-ID: <1f7.2f538ea.2ee25be7@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:16:39 EST
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=”part1_1f7.2f538ea.2ee25be7_boundary”
X-Mailer: 6.0 sub 10578
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours
Date: December 7, 2004 at 2:47:00 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This was returned to me though I do not know why. Also the next one to follow was also returned?
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@aol.com>
Subject: Returned mail: Cannot send message within 3 hours
Date: December 3, 2004 at 10:39:51 PM EST
To: <Sapphirestardus@aol.com>

The original message was received at Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:35:10 -0500 (EST)
from imo-m21.mail.aol.com [172.20.107.67]

*** ATTENTION ***

Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its
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The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section
labeled: “—– Transcript of Session Follows —–“.

The line beginning with “<<<” describes the specific reason your e-mail could
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general translation for other e-mail servers.

Please direct further questions regarding this message to the e-mail
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–AOL Postmaster

—– The following addresses had permanent fatal errors —–
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—– Transcript of session follows —–
<ibogaine@mindvox.com>… Deferred: Connection timed out with mindvox.com.
Message could not be delivered for 3 hours
Message will be deleted from queue
Final-Recipient: RFC822; ibogaine@mindvox.com
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From: Sapphirestardus@aol.com
Message-ID: <42.5db44a61.2ee25a11@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 19:08:49 EST
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your maili…
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: sub
Date: December 7, 2004 at 1:09:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i owe you and other docs on the list apologies. you guys are smart and healers and i was wrong to lump all together. like in my profession.  i’ve been enlightened. thanks,if accepted or read. no sleepum benzo cut. ron  the bad guys here aren’t the bad guys wherever you and others are located.
—– Original Message —–
From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: sub

Ron, All these weeks you where crying about Benzo’s and if Ibo works for benzo’s. You never mentioned the Bup. Whaz up with dat

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [DON’T OPEN] Attachments in Messages
Date: December 7, 2004 at 12:36:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Realizing that a lotta people now here, aren’t too familiar with viruses and other crap.

If you are using Windoze, and do not have a virus checker running on your computer; well, you’re pretty much doOmed and should really think about obtaining one.

Just in case anybody is not yet aware of this: it is an extremely poor idea to click on attachments that arrive in random messages — either through the list itself; forged with various email address headers, or <gasp> sent by “me.”

If “I” have sent you email, well … probably, I didn’t.  I never send anything except plain-text.  I don’t use rtf, or html in my email, and the only machines I own are running unix.

Someone, somewhere, is infected with something … and it’s mass mailing crap out of their addressbook.  In this case, reading the headers, it’s coming out of adelphia.net:

from 69-168-104-227.sbtnvt.adelphia.net (HELO kat.net) (69.168.104.227)

Laters,

Patrick

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From: “CallieMimosa” <CallieMimosa@aol.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re:
Date: December 7, 2004 at 12:06:57 AM EST
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>The snake

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Cleansing body and craving brain
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:34:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “timeless” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Cleansing body and craving brain

I just started the protocol of Ronald A. Ruden author of ” the craving brain

Been three days on it . Still drinking coffe and smoking cigarettes.
This is a protocol that he posted on Internet with the title ” Natural
Healing of obessive Compulsive Disorder ”  a lot of Theanine. Gaba.
Phosadyllic ( soy lecithin)Magnesium taurate and Seromel 5htp. Should fix my
craving brain !!

His theory is that we have to balance dopamine and serotonine to be free
from craving.

I going  the beach me and my “craving brain”  to read  another book :
“End your addiction Now by Charles Gant . The proven nutritional supplement
program that can set you free. ” This will be plan B .
Do you have some feedback on personal experience on nutritional supplement
to win the war on addictions ? Maybee a plan C ?
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 1:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

Ron, and the list:

Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research.  Learn a little too
much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs.  Just the way it
is in these New Dark Ages.

Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it.  I
hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
might still be alive to benefit.

Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list.  You can
google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
on the science behind them. When you get to what makes sense and you want
to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
we can all learn from you.

Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
herbal tonics spin out from here..).

Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
trials by hustling to pay for each fix.

As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.

That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell.  There are
many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
opinion.

So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
a while.  –Dr. Tom

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:31:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you for the info. freaky stuff. ron
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

Since GABA has been coming up in the discussion of benzos, I wonder
if gabapentin (Neurontin) could be of any use in a benzo detox.
Here’s one case where it helped:

http://www.cpa-
apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/April/Letters3.asp

“…Due to her instability and continued benzodiazepine use, she
was declined entry into residential addiction treatment. She
refused carbemazepine because of potential side effects. She
instead started on 200 mg of gabapentin 3 times daily. Initially as
her symptoms of anxiety, tremor, and affective lability rapidly
decreased, she described gabapentin as “feeling like alprazolam.”
Clonazepam was then tapered off. Within 3 weeks of admission, she
was benzodiazepine-free. The subjective, alprazolam-like effect
faded, but anxious symptoms remained controlled, with little
craving for benzodiazepines or other substances, including
cigarettes. She denied any adverse effects from the medication,
except for short-term sedation. The total daily dose of gabapentin
remained low (600 mg daily). Off benzodiazepines, her mental state
improved, allowing discharge from hospital and commencement of
outpatient addiction treatment. Two months later, she remained
abstinent.”

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:28:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you sara, you and many others on the list are kind healers, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:25:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you very much, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: m.finman
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,
Have you ever been working one of your cases or been in a court session where you instinctively or intuitively knew the move the other side was going to do and already had your countermove.  Where you had this confidence that you had this understanding of everything that was happening and about to happen and it played out for you.  It’s a skill people get no matter what their field.  I think you have that ability in your field, I get you are really good at what you do and because there is so much intelectual and technical and legal stuff to prepare yourself with that seems how your brain works. In a field where there are no definite precedents and when you work with people and their health needs and  in a situation that has a definite spiritual base you sharpen your instinct, skill, ability to intuit or read the situation on a one to one basis.  I don’t personally know Sara other than what I’ve read on this list for the past 3 mos. but my instincts told me about 6 weeks ago (or longer) when she was brought up as a possibility for you that it felt right.  As does the weaning thing you are doing.  Have a little faith that you can sense how slow you need to go to bring one down while replacing with the other.  Your body and your mind will tell you just get rid of the fear and doubt (which truthfully I see waning as did your original degree of fear and anger in the beginning)
I’ve read some excellent suggestions from dr.tom and schmoolyboy for you.  I know how nice it would be for someone to say this is the protocol and it’s guaranteed and I am not in your shoes to tell you how you should feel, but I think you’ve been given a lot to consider.   I think you should stay on the list.  It has been good to see your progress.  My advice to you would be to mentally slow down when you read some of the stuff offered you on the list.  I feel you are not really absorbing and considering a lot of it at the time it is offered and that takes you in repeated circles.  You don’t need your court brain here where you need a quick and effective counter.   Just to let you know I have been on the theanine for 4 days now and I am sleeping better and my cigarette cravings have gone from cravings to behaviorally wanting one.  I was not able to take the l-theanine right after my session. My sister gave me one as she takes it to sleep and it made me feel like I just did a shot of coke.   Hated hated hated it.   4 months later it’s hitting me a whole different way.  I hope, I pray you can realize what you are seeking.  You are so deserving of that kind of peace in your life.
With so much respect,
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron

Sara has just described how she works. Spiritually.

What you are forgetting is that eboga is a spiritual process also. If Sara has treated people and has confidance in herself then I would say of the two choices you have there is no doubt.

On the one hand you have all kinds of conflicting research. On the other a treatment that has a success rate. On top of all this you have a spiritual realm working with you, the Eboga realm.

If I had to chose I know what it would be. That which has the edge and I cant think of a bigger edge than this: the eboga spirit.

Of course the middle ground is research what you can and use it as part of the treatment.

Love & Light

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:18:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

lee: your are a compassionate man and i thank you. fear is debilitating, self pity  is self centered. heck, it’s all self centered. fear and anger the worst
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)

Ron,

Its interesting the way something can be read differently by others.

What I read in Dr Tom’s email was a lot of compassion and heartache for your situation.

You have 2 options imo. Either you follow Dr Tom’s advice and use this list creatively as well as use your own online abilities or else you go down the tubes.

I am sure you know this quote:

Tow roads diverged in a woods,
And I, I took the road least traveled by.
And it has made all the difference.

If you decide to put the functioning half of your brain into action and follow Dr Toms advice here:

When you get to what makes sense and you want
> to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
> treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
> your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
> we can all learn from you.
for me, a no nothing, i view it as a teaching,learning experience . i’m sorry to have created this mess, you guys were rocking.  i don’t know how to read it.  take a consensus, i draw the short straw, i’ll bail, no hard feelings. man, this ain’t fun and i may have messed it up for others. that is troubling. ron
you can make a contribution that not only will save your life but also possibly the lives of others on this list as your posts will be read and saved on this important subject for others coming after you.
Make a difference. Make a contribution. Have courage and fight for yourself. Take a risk…….

or you can always top yourself and leave behind a big mess for someone else to clear up –  I guess thats the easier road?        my dad’s dying, first time around for me for family member.i guess i get the hash mark sometime. smarter people here than me. boot me if you want, i’ll understand

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
sorry for the pity , misery tenure of my earlier emails. never my intentions
to slow anyone’s recovery or offend. many of you guys have more knowledge of
this stuff than i do. the well timed slap was very informative. hey, all i
have is questions, no answers, sorry to have included the personal profile
in posing them. thanks for your time in responding. didn’t mean to strike
such a hostile chord from someone who is obviously a healer. wishing you
the continued peaceful path you’re on, ron
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

> Ron, and the list:
>
> Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
> your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
> are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
> We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
> Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
> paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
> First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research. Learn a little too
> much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
> is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
> of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
> prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
> the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs. Just the way it
> is in these New Dark Ages.
>
> Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
> your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
> a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
> After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
> educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it. I
> hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
> might still be alive to benefit.
>
> Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
> inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list. You can
> google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
> on the science behind them.When you get to what makes sense and you want
> to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
> treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
> your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
> we can all learn from you.
>
> Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
> Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
> Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
> herbal tonics spin out from here..).
>
> Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
> on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
> Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
> a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
> known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
> populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
> however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
> trials by hustling to pay for each fix.
>
> As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
> But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
> can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
> of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
> ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
> alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
> for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.
>
> That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell. There are
> many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
> their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
> awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
> for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
> opinion.
>
> So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
> a while. –Dr. Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 10:36:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kind words from a kind man, thank you
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron
have faith in Sara youhave said if she could help youwould be there well she can i have no doubt that she would not hurt you only help go for it we all are rooting for you
there isnt a hard copy plan to fo;llow go with the flow you have doneso thusfar and it has brought to here where you have answers
take the leap
freak free
Jeff

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 10:24:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,
Have you ever been working one of your cases or been in a court session where you instinctively or intuitively knew the move the other side was going to do and already had your countermove.  Where you had this confidence that you had this understanding of everything that was happening and about to happen and it played out for you.  It’s a skill people get no matter what their field.  I think you have that ability in your field, I get you are really good at what you do and because there is so much intelectual and technical and legal stuff to prepare yourself with that seems how your brain works. In a field where there are no definite precedents and when you work with people and their health needs and  in a situation that has a definite spiritual base you sharpen your instinct, skill, ability to intuit or read the situation on a one to one basis.  I don’t personally know Sara other than what I’ve read on this list for the past 3 mos. but my instincts told me about 6 weeks ago (or longer) when she was brought up as a possibility for you that it felt right.  As does the weaning thing you are doing.  Have a little faith that you can sense how slow you need to go to bring one down while replacing with the other.  Your body and your mind will tell you just get rid of the fear and doubt (which truthfully I see waning as did your original degree of fear and anger in the beginning)
I’ve read some excellent suggestions from dr.tom and schmoolyboy for you.  I know how nice it would be for someone to say this is the protocol and it’s guaranteed and I am not in your shoes to tell you how you should feel, but I think you’ve been given a lot to consider.   I think you should stay on the list.  It has been good to see your progress.  My advice to you would be to mentally slow down when you read some of the stuff offered you on the list.  I feel you are not really absorbing and considering a lot of it at the time it is offered and that takes you in repeated circles.  You don’t need your court brain here where you need a quick and effective counter.   Just to let you know I have been on the theanine for 4 days now and I am sleeping better and my cigarette cravings have gone from cravings to behaviorally wanting one.  I was not able to take the l-theanine right after my session. My sister gave me one as she takes it to sleep and it made me feel like I just did a shot of coke.   Hated hated hated it.   4 months later it’s hitting me a whole different way.  I hope, I pray you can realize what you are seeking.  You are so deserving of that kind of peace in your life.
With so much respect,
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 7:30 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron

Sara has just described how she works. Spiritually.

What you are forgetting is that eboga is a spiritual process also. If Sara has treated people and has confidance in herself then I would say of the two choices you have there is no doubt.

On the one hand you have all kinds of conflicting research. On the other a treatment that has a success rate. On top of all this you have a spiritual realm working with you, the Eboga realm.

If I had to chose I know what it would be. That which has the edge and I cant think of a bigger edge than this: the eboga spirit.

Of course the middle ground is research what you can and use it as part of the treatment.

Love & Light

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:30:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dearest Beatrice,
Good luck, I’m praying it will work for you!!
Love Deborah

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 8:59:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee and Sara,

You guys are just blowing me away (That is 1960s jargon for really positive
and fantastic).

Howard

In a message dated 12/6/04 7:31:48 PM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Hi Ron

Sara has just described how she works. Spiritually.

What you are forgetting is that eboga is a spiritual process also. If Sara
has treated people and has confidance in herself then I would say of the
two choices you have there is no doubt.

On the one hand you have all kinds of conflicting research. On the other
a treatment that has a success rate. On top of all this you have a spiritual
realm working with you, the Eboga realm.

If I had to chose I know what it would be. That which has the edge and
I cant think of a bigger edge than this: the eboga spirit.

Of course the middle ground is research what you can and use it as part
of the treatment.

Love & Light

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}.shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui)
}

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research.
The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction
combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication
at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them
and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or
valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose
to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small
dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle
and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t
have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package
deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
=
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I
have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such
research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick,
knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.
that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it
a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under
dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 6, 2004 at 8:49:23 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jasen,
I havn’t posted before, I’ve just been reading but I wanted to tell you that
it’s so great to read of your transition back into life! I am so proud of
you!!! I am still where you were… And we all know just how hard it is!!
You are an inspiration for me!
Luck and love,
Deborah

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 8:22:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron
have faith in Sara youhave said if she could help youwould be there well she can i have no doubt that she would not hurt you only help go for it we all are rooting for you
there isnt a hard copy plan to fo;llow go with the flow you have doneso thusfar and it has brought to here where you have answers
take the leap
freak free
Jeff

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 7:30:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron

Sara has just described how she works. Spiritually.

What you are forgetting is that eboga is a spiritual process also. If Sara has treated people and has confidance in herself then I would say of the two choices you have there is no doubt.

On the one hand you have all kinds of conflicting research. On the other a treatment that has a success rate. On top of all this you have a spiritual realm working with you, the Eboga realm.

If I had to chose I know what it would be. That which has the edge and I cant think of a bigger edge than this: the eboga spirit.

Of course the middle ground is research what you can and use it as part of the treatment.

Love & Light

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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http://www.my-eboga.com

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 6:39:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Go Beatrice!  Go Beatrice!  Go Beatrice!!!
Do we get to meet you before you go?
(p.s. Jeff apologizes for his non-spellchecked message previously)
Love, Rachel and Jeffy
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [DrugWar] Re: [Ibogaine] (photo) at Virgin MegaStore, Manhattan
Date: December 6, 2004 at 5:40:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

It is “pretty much” a national release Randy, and I’d be glad to sign a book for you when you are in the city.
Drop me a note telling me when you plan on being here, whenever that may be, and we’ll hook up, brother.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (photo) at Virgin MegaStore, Manhattan

Preston, you should be proud. I have to have a copy of that book. I’ll tell you if it is in Erie tomorrow. It is pretty much a national release isn’t it? A signed copy of that would be something to treasure. Hook a brother up won’t che? I’ll bring the book and my son to NYC soon. Somehow. Randy

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 5:39:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Since GABA has been coming up in the discussion of benzos, I wonder
if gabapentin (Neurontin) could be of any use in a benzo detox.
Here’s one case where it helped:

http://www.cpa-
apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/April/Letters3.asp

“…Due to her instability and continued benzodiazepine use, she
was declined entry into residential addiction treatment. She
refused carbemazepine because of potential side effects. She
instead started on 200 mg of gabapentin 3 times daily. Initially as
her symptoms of anxiety, tremor, and affective lability rapidly
decreased, she described gabapentin as “feeling like alprazolam.”
Clonazepam was then tapered off. Within 3 weeks of admission, she
was benzodiazepine-free. The subjective, alprazolam-like effect
faded, but anxious symptoms remained controlled, with little
craving for benzodiazepines or other substances, including
cigarettes. She denied any adverse effects from the medication,
except for short-term sedation. The total daily dose of gabapentin
remained low (600 mg daily). Off benzodiazepines, her mental state
improved, allowing discharge from hospital and commencement of
outpatient addiction treatment. Two months later, she remained
abstinent.”

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From: ibogaine@ibogaineproject.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 6:01:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
Well, as my granddad on my mom’s side used to say, ” can ya mash (excuse the synchronicity ) patatoes!
Imagine receiving a treatment for $10,500 by the official authority on the process, and being convinced you were significantly underdosed, coming home still very, very dope sick.  Then less than a few weeks later traveling clear across the U.S. to receive another session with the underground in N.Y.C. for a small fraction of the initial cost.  We live in a strange world.
Anyway, i’ve been on the phone( my largest monthly expense ) with the contingency of ibo angels in The City and word has it Beatrise is doing very well.  She does have a fast metabolism and at least to some degree this could account for her initial experience because she is burning through a lot of ibogaine both quickly and as far as we could see, comfortably.
I think she is doing great so far.  She will speak for herself i would guess in a couple of days, perhaps even sooner.
f.

OK, guys, my guide is here. I’m getting ready to get administered to at 12
pm EST. In 45 minutes. Pretty sick now. Very anxious, nervous. This is my
second time, as some of you may know. The first was last month and was a
screw up. I’ll post all about it and this time when I’m through here. Could be
days, but hopefully not too long! Whatever your beliefs, please say a quick
prayer for me! I need this part of my life to be through, I’m so sick and tired
of being sick and tired. Could use all the help I can get. Keep me in mind,
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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Msg sent via @Mail v4 – http://atmail.com/ /]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 5:11:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (photo) at Virgin MegaStore, Manhattan
Date: December 6, 2004 at 5:07:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, you should be proud. I have to have a copy of that book. I’ll tell you if it is in Erie tomorrow. It is pretty much a national release isn’t it? A signed copy of that would be something to treasure. Hook a brother up won’t che? I’ll bring the book and my son to NYC soon. Somehow.                       Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 4:56:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beatrice, I know this will be late but just know that I send all the good vibes I can muster your way. I look forward to your descriptions to take us back. Ibogaine is a miracle medicine.               Randy

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] If you cannot read this message please reply to it
Date: December 6, 2004 at 4:17:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I realize that some people on yahoo are experiencing problems receiving the various lists.  In nearly all instances this means you have spam filtering turned up to [Paranoid] mode, and you will be able to find all the messages in your BULK folder.

If you have actually become unsubscribed from any given list, then sign back on and that SHOULD be the end of most problems.

Hotmail has perpetual problems with total overload, slow SMTP connects, and in general; suffers from being a pile of shit.  I would suggest using something OTHER THAN Hotmail.  On the flipside, there seem to be a large number of people who have PAID Hotmail accounts, that do not experience any of these issues.  <What’re the odds?!?!?#@!?!>

Yahoo experiences NONE of these problems directly.  What HAS changed in the last 2 months or so, is their new spam filtering has gone from alpha, into beta, and it’s now part of your email service whether you asked for it or not.

To wit, this thing here has been added to all the headers:

Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys

It doesn’t seem to be working, uhm, perfectly … <giggle> quite yet…

In short: our netblock is not open-relay, it does not transmit “spam,” but it sure duz send out a coupla hundred thousand pieces of email each day.

What yahoo THINKS it is doing, what is actually happening, and how all of this affects YOUR email account, appears to be somewhat random and up in the air at this exact time.

Yahoo IS aware that @mindvox.com sends out a lot of email to their subscribers, and they are not blocking it.  BUT at random times, some accounts seem to suffer from a Disturbance in The Force.  Go figure.

In January we will be throwing Yet Another Server into our rack, and the full content of all lists will be available in a searchable web-interface, which is relatively idiot-proof; I meant to say: user-friendly.

Thank youz,

Patrick

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 3:17:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

Its interesting the way something can be read differently by others.

What I read in Dr Tom’s email was a lot of compassion and heartache for your situation.

You have 2 options imo. Either you follow Dr Tom’s advice and use this list creatively as well as use your own online abilities or else you go down the tubes.

I am sure you know this quote:

Tow roads diverged in a woods,
And I, I took the road least traveled by.
And it has made all the difference.

If you decide to put the functioning half of your brain into action and follow Dr Toms advice here:

When you get to what makes sense and you want
> to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
> treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
> your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
> we can all learn from you.

you can make a contribution that not only will save your life but also possibly the lives of others on this list as your posts will be read and saved on this important subject for others coming after you. Make a difference. Make a contribution. Have courage and fight for yourself. Take a risk…….

or you can always top yourself and leave behind a big mess for someone else to clear up –  I guess thats the easier road?

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
sorry for the pity , misery tenure of my earlier emails. never my intentions
to slow anyone’s recovery or offend. many of you guys have more knowledge of
this stuff than i do. the well timed slap was very informative. hey, all i
have is questions, no answers, sorry to have included the personal profile
in posing them. thanks for your time in responding. didn’t mean to strike
such a hostile chord from someone who is obviously a healer. wishing you
the continued peaceful path you’re on, ron
—– Original Message —–
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

> Ron, and the list:
>
> Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
> your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
> are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
> We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
> Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
> paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
> First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research. Learn a little too
> much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
> is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
> of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
> prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
> the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs. Just the way it
> is in these New Dark Ages.
>
> Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
> your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
> a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
> After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
> educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it. I
> hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
> might still be alive to benefit.
>
> Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
> inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list. You can
> google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
> on the science behind them.When you get to what makes sense and you want
> to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
> treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
> your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
> we can all learn from you.
>
> Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
> Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
> Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
> herbal tonics spin out from here..).
>
> Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
> on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
> Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
> a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
> known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
> populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
> however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
> trials by hustling to pay for each fix.
>
> As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
> But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
> can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
> of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
> ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
> alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
> for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.
>
> That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell. There are
> many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
> their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
> awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
> for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
> opinion.
>
> So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
> a while. –Dr. Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[\
> [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
> [%]
>
> \]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>
>

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:41:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron ,
You are educated enough to do something about your benzo problem;
do you want to do something about it,
or just chat a little while?
there´s no much else to say.

Try to keep your mind at bay, there´ll be always hesitation, let that be  aside for a moment. Benzos avoid the tought process to “die and born”, the stuff is there and always be, as long as you think in the same way. Go forward, faster than your thought are your intuitions and emotions. But once you “felt it” there´s already the thought like a shadow chasing its prey, given opinions of….. stop that mind, stay in your heart, moment by moment, otherwise you won´t be able to transform yourself in what you really are; and you finally become the shadow of what we are as souls, this is: you may become just a mind, a tought process, unaware, automatic, just reacting to things.

-heart is never confused-
(sometimes mind is not agree)

don´t think about it.
take care.

gdc

—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 3:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

thank you for your compassionate response.  never my intentions to evoke controversy in a harmonious community.
i got here alone, with grace, maybe some of you guys will continue to educate me.  i obviously have much to learn.  thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

If you go off the list I will be really pissed. This list is here to help people like you in the shits. There has to be some way the people on this list can help you more. If not I will be very surprised and saddened.

Sara says she can do it and by the sounds of it you have not given her much attention in looking into your problem. Why dont you talk with her off list a little. Maybe even get on the phone. You have nothing to lose. Its another step forward. I imagine you are afraid of getting a fucked up treatment. But that is your fear talking.

I am not an expert in this but I do have a lot of time and respect for Sara.

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “timeless” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Cleansing body and craving brain
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:39:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just started the protocol of Ronald A. Ruden author of ” the craving brain

Been three days on it . Still drinking coffe and smoking cigarettes.
This is a protocol that he posted on Internet with the title ” Natural
Healing of obessive Compulsive Disorder ”  a lot of Theanine. Gaba.
Phosadyllic ( soy lecithin)Magnesium taurate and Seromel 5htp. Should fix my
craving brain !!

His theory is that we have to balance dopamine and serotonine to be free
from craving.

I going  the beach me and my “craving brain”  to read  another book :
“End your addiction Now by Charles Gant . The proven nutritional supplement
program that can set you free. ” This will be plan B .
Do you have some feedback on personal experience on nutritional supplement
to win the war on addictions ? Maybee a plan C ?
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 1:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

Ron, and the list:

Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research.  Learn a little too
much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs.  Just the way it
is in these New Dark Ages.

Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it.  I
hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
might still be alive to benefit.

Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list.  You can
google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
on the science behind them. When you get to what makes sense and you want
to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
we can all learn from you.

Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
herbal tonics spin out from here..).

Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
trials by hustling to pay for each fix.

As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.

That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell.  There are
many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
opinion.

So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
a while.  –Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (photo) at Virgin MegaStore, Manhattan
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:03:19 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Check out this phone photo of this book.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From:
To: ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:55 PM

 

This message was sent from a T-Mobile wireless phone.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:48:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you for your compassionate response.  never my intentions to evoke controversy in a harmonious community.
i got here alone, with grace, maybe some of you guys will continue to educate me.  i obviously have much to learn.  thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

If you go off the list I will be really pissed. This list is here to help people like you in the shits. There has to be some way the people on this list can help you more. If not I will be very surprised and saddened.

Sara says she can do it and by the sounds of it you have not given her much attention in looking into your problem. Why dont you talk with her off list a little. Maybe even get on the phone. You have nothing to lose. Its another step forward. I imagine you are afraid of getting a fucked up treatment. But that is your fear talking.

I am not an expert in this but I do have a lot of time and respect for Sara.

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak(Dr. Tom)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:44:42 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry for the pity , misery tenure of my earlier emails. never my intentions to slow anyone’s recovery or offend. many of you guys have more knowledge of this stuff than i do. the well timed slap was very informative. hey, all i have is questions, no answers, sorry to have included the personal profile in posing them. thanks for your time in responding. didn’t mean to strike such a hostile chord from  someone who is obviously a healer. wishing you the continued peaceful path you’re on, ron
—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak

Ron, and the list:

Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research.  Learn a little too
much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs.  Just the way it
is in these New Dark Ages.

Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it.  I
hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
might still be alive to benefit.

Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list.  You can
google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
on the science behind them. When you get to what makes sense and you want
to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
we can all learn from you.

Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
herbal tonics spin out from here..).

Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
trials by hustling to pay for each fix.

As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.

That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell.  There are
many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
opinion.

So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
a while.  –Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:23:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,
There is no need to apologize for an email that actually seeks to do something positive for you. Your soul is crying out. Keep up off your ass now and dont let those thought demons stop you in your tracks!
Keep the ball moving.
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:15:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: <tomo7@starband.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] benzo jailbreak
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:12:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, and the list:

Breaking out of the freaky corner of an addiction to benzos will stretch
your will power and courage, Ron. The inhibitory neurotransmitters that
are affected by benzos are only barely understood by modern neuroscience.
We can identify them and have named a few of the major ones, like GABA,
Serotonin, and Dopamine, but the best scientists working for the best
paying drug companies are keeping the most effective research secret.
First tier of spook science is bio-weapon research.  Learn a little too
much of that world and your life expectancy gets real brief. Second tier
is proprietary for the company product development. Several hectare chunks
of the rainforest are presently leased to drug companies so they can
prevent ancient natural medicines from becoming understood and taught to
the plebes before patents get nailed down for new drugs.  Just the way it
is in these New Dark Ages.

Ibogaine is your best bet for building your will and courage by rebuilding
your emotional body, bringing you in to your power as a free man. You want
a nailed down biochem tutorial on how it does that? Good freaking luck!
After a decade in the hard sciences and trying to pay your way through the
educational grind, you might learn enough to teach us all about it.  I
hope you stay on the list until then. Some of the more hard core addicts
might still be alive to benefit.

Cheap natural medicines that seem to gently encourage a balance of those
inhibitory neurotransmitters are in the following word list.  You can
google these and then deepen your dive into Pub Med for medical abstracts
on the science behind them. When you get to what makes sense and you want
to use some of them to help set up your jailbreak, shoot us all a
treatment plan and entertain comments. After a synthesis of these, make
your move and share your results with the list and the provider sites so
we can all learn from you.

Read up and understand these medicines: Theanine, Iodine, Idebenone,
Bacopa, Gotu Kola, Kava Kava, Scullcap, The Master Cleanse, by Burroughs,
Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Glycine, and Rhodiola(several related adaptogen,
herbal tonics spin out from here..).

Sara’s perspective on the dangerous addictions of pharmaceuticals is right
on, and the conspiracy reality behind the Drug War articulated in works of
Dana Beale and Preston among many others is also exactly to the point. As
a drug addict in the 21st century, you are the most affordable lab rat
known to Science, next to prisoners and unaware pre-technical civilian
populations. Those populations don’t write and communicate as well,
however, and they don’t actually pay the drug cartels for their clinical
trials by hustling to pay for each fix.

As for the tone of your many posts, yeah, they sound pretty desperate.
But anyone who has been in those dark neighborhoods of fear and pain sure
can identify the place you’re coming from. Throw some energy into learning
of these safe natural medicines. Listen to Dr. Schmooleyboy’s clinical
ideas for lowering the benzos at the same time you increase the
alternatives. Then, if you decide that an emotional-psychic makeover is up
for you, make an ibogaine session or several happen.

That psycho-spiritual tool is Ibogaine, as far as I can tell.  There are
many sister entheogens with wonderful insights and growth in reach through
their intelligent use, great spiritual and meditational systems of
awareness training all around, and more, but the Eye is the “heavy lifter”
for the human spirit here and now, in my sometimes humble personal
opinion.

So good luck and firm intentions for you, Ron. Misery just gets old after
a while.  –Dr. Tom

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 12:55:50 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

If you go off the list I will be really pissed. This list is here to help people like you in the shits. There has to be some way the people on this list can help you more. If not I will be very surprised and saddened.

Sara says she can do it and by the sounds of it you have not given her much attention in looking into your problem. Why dont you talk with her off list a little. Maybe even get on the phone. You have nothing to lose. Its another step forward. I imagine you are afraid of getting a fucked up treatment. But that is your fear talking.

I am not an expert in this but I do have a lot of time and respect for Sara.

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “timeless” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 6, 2004 at 12:46:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick !

You wrote :
I don’t argue there are different types of demon, whatever. Just pointing
out that in actuality they are all You! All just facets of Yourself. The
discriminatory function of mind that allows us to say this thing is
different from that itself proceeds from one core assumption – that You
are
this body, these feelings, this mind. This is also fine but it is only one
aspect of who you are – it is who you are as an ego, as a relative entity
surrounded by other relative entities.

If you take a big dose of iboga, as during Bwiti initiation, the
stranglehold of ego-consciousness can be broken for a while and the mind’s
partitioning is cut through. They called it “breaking open the head.”

*Who are they ?

In
this space you are joined to the universal mind. You experience the
un-barrieredness of life, just flowing where it will. And you are aware
that
it is all You.

* How do you know it is all you ? How the observer could be the subject of
his observation ?

From this perspective and from the memory of this experience
you can see that it matters not what something looks like for what it
fundamentally IS is You. Big demons, little demons, ones with pointy teeth
or big scary hebrew names, it just doesn’t matter because they are all
You.
They are all what you are giving yourself to grow as an ego.

* How can I give me something myself that I dont know ?

So…to try and cast them out is merely the discriminatory function of
mind
operating from an unenlightened,

* Who said unenlightened ? How do I know when I am enligthed or not. Who
said so ?

fear-based perspective.

* Who said so ?  You can cast entities out of yourself or from somebody else
out of compassion or love.For the entitie or yourself.

And for sure it
will go on. But, once the stranglehold of ego-consciousness is broken for
a
while

* How do you  know the exact moment that our ego-consciousness is broken.
Who tell you is broken and that is not a mere effect of  your allucination ?

then the sheer folly of trying to cast anything out of anywhere will
be so apparent that the fear will dissipate and what we are afraid of can
be
looked at more closely.

* I try to believe in what’s work and that a deliberate choice . If my
belief is not working I change it.

Esample :If you come to see me and have a  recurent nightmare, phobia or
pain. I will try to find a way to go the roots of it. Generaly I use Time
line Therapie or I will go further with in time with a Past Life  Therapie.
Then we find the event and change the modalities of it. You come back and
the nightmare, phobia or pain are gone. That’s work, I don’t know exactly
why and who but I was looking for a result and I had it. That enought for
me.
I always ask if it’s something or someone his there  in the (client –
friend – patient ) that would like to tell me something.If someone answer me
I will work with the entitie with the same approach: gentle, patient and
compassionate but firm and will help the entitie to go to the Light. The
client – friend – patient will feel and incredible release, sometimes even a
bit of sadeness ( they’ve been toghether for many years ) and the symptoms
will disappears. Generally what I found are lost soul too frightened to
leave this dimension.
I can’t change my belief system on entities or demons .
Why ? this will condemn me to denie thousand of years of knowledge
accumulated by the human familly all over the planet.  Second I will have to
give up a precious tool in helping others.Believe me , I am a reluctant
practitioner when it comes to this type of work 🙂 because I am by nature
not very courageous but I have a strong faith and believe in the power of
compassion in our life.
God Bless
Francis

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 12:11:44 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:29:53 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i don’t know you, but i know fear, wd’s and the rest. i do not know the ibo experience, but know the hope to be well and the rest of which you speak. prayer with you, be safe and get well. rwd
—– Original Message —– From: “Beatrice Blue” <beatriceblue@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 10:19 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….

OK, guys, my guide is here.  I’m getting ready to get administered to at 12
pm EST.  In 45 minutes.  Pretty sick now.  Very anxious, nervous.  This is my
second time, as some of you may know.  The first was last month and was a
screw up.  I’ll post all about it and this time when I’m through here. Could be
days, but hopefully not too long!  Whatever your beliefs, please say a quick
prayer for me!  I need this part of my life to be through, I’m so sick and tired
of being sick and tired.  Could use all the help I can get.  Keep me in mind,
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 6, 2004 at 11:19:55 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:54:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) –
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:51:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Albert:
Thanks for your interest and concern.  I do not wish to break any laws.  In response to your question” do you know what to do if you get the right drugs?” Only from a lay perspective and that is , from my readings and limited knowledge,  gradually reduce the one i’m taking,  slowly substitute the longer lasting one and continue reducing.  The problem is the lower the dose, each cut takes on a new significance as it represents a larger portion  of one’s total intake.  I do not have the experise to know to when and how much to  cross over on the substitute drug and how much to cut at different junctures.  Also, being a lay person, i admittedly am not up to speed on the latest studies and advances in this field.  I’m not qualified to supervise myself over a long haul and seek assistance.As i stated before, my best efforts got me here in this jam so I lack the knowledge to cure myself.  I know I must continue to reduce dosage and stay active in the 12 step commmunity.  I can only hope I do not make a fatal mistake, end up in a seizure hurting myself or others. It’s long road even if perfectly followed and uncomfortable. I also do not know what factor my age will play in this. I did not join the list to subvert it to another cause but  to learn if the treatment you guys are taking  may work for me. My life bites now, my posts reek of self pity and i do not want to lose everything i , with the help
of so many others, achieved during my straight (sober) years. I hope this info proves useful to others so they may avoid the pitfall i took.  Ain’t no easy way out. should i bail from the list?  Hate to dilute it’s purpose and the good work it does. Peace, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) –
Le 6/12/04 12:38, «?Lee Albert?» <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit?:
Thanks lee
Click on this link for the unsubscriber command:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html <http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html>

Adios

“laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr> wrote:
Le 6/12/04 12:20, «?Lee Albert?» <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit?:

Hi everybody,

Can anyone tel me how to get out of the mailing list, it jams by mailbox, thanks

L

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but maybe not so knowledgable in this area. if i thought she could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29276/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/bulldog/index.html>  to make your dream a reality.

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21626/*http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com> – all new features – even more fun!

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Win a castle <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=28672/*http://www.yahoo.co.uk/popularity> for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29276/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/bulldog/index.html>  to make your dream a reality.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] The decline of Marc Emery’s cannabis culture
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:15:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oops, hadn’t realized this had already come to ibogaine@mindvox, so please, disregard my posting it too.
My bad.

I’m trying to figure out what’s going on now vector, but I probably won’t get much more info than this, unless Marc wants to post something from his position, which I’d like to see and hear him do actually.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] The decline of Marc Emery’s cannabis culture

There are too many messages to follow. Preston what happened with all
of this? I know activists were mad at Marc when he pled guilty, then
since he got out of prison from the looks of the lawyers and others
posting to drugwar that he is going down in flames?

.:vector:.

— Tim Meehan <fc697@ncf.ca> wrote:

Here’s the story behind this:

Marc Emery is trying to take credit for work he didn’t do. He has a
long history
of that. He likes to tell people that he gives “millions of dollars a

year in
activism” but I’d put that figure closer to tens of thousands, and
above all,
expects droit de seigneur (no, I’m serious) for most attractive
acceptees.

We’ve been biting our tongues for years, however now he’s gone too
far,
and
pissed off most of the serious activist community in Canada. The only

people
still supporting him are his employees and others who depend on him
for
their
income — and they are now attacking NORML Canada.

Sadly, one of their pit bulls just libeled myself — and by extension

two of the
biggest lawyers in Canada.  Not a smart move.

Also, don’t expect pot-tv.net or cannabisculture.com to last much
longer —
they’ve already started to shut down different projects, they’re
reneging on
salaries and reimbursement, and they’ve alienated most of their
allies.

Part of this is because they are creeping into irrelevance and they
know it.
Cannabis activism is moving into the hallways of Parliament, and away

from the
smoky back rooms of Vancouver.

If you are owed money from EmeryCo I would suggest collecting it now

(or trying
to) before it’s too late.

-Tim

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT-2) Fw: [DrugWar] The decline of Marc Emery’s cannabis culture
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:12:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

and here we hear about the ibogaine-connected person I mentioned in the last post.
I have no first-hand knowlege of these occurances and happenings, I only forward them because I know the people involved either by name or personally.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Tim Meehan” <fc697@ncf.ca>
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:04 AM
Subject: [DrugWar] The decline of Marc Emery’s cannabis culture

Here’s the story behind this:

Marc Emery is trying to take credit for work he didn’t do. He has a long history
of that. He likes to tell people that he gives “millions of dollars a year in
activism” but I’d put that figure closer to tens of thousands, and above all,
expects droit de seigneur (no, I’m serious) for most attractive acceptees.

We’ve been biting our tongues for years, however now he’s gone too far, and
pissed off most of the serious activist community in Canada. The only people
still supporting him are his employees and others who depend on him for their
income — and they are now attacking NORML Canada.

Sadly, one of their pit bulls just libeled myself — and by extension two of the
biggest lawyers in Canada.  Not a smart move.

Also, don’t expect pot-tv.net or cannabisculture.com to last much longer —
they’ve already started to shut down different projects, they’re reneging on
salaries and reimbursement, and they’ve alienated most of their allies.

Part of this is because they are creeping into irrelevance and they know it.
Cannabis activism is moving into the hallways of Parliament, and away from the
smoky back rooms of Vancouver.

If you are owed money from EmeryCo I would suggest collecting it now (or trying
to) before it’s too late.

-Tim

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT-1) Fw: [DrugWar] Invitation to withdraw libellous statements (fwd)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:11:02 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
This is interesting, for those who know the participants. And the next email has something about someone some of us know from the ibogaine area, so I’m forwarding these even though they may seem off topic. Just for the interesting little flaming going on.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Tim Meehan” <fc697@ncf.ca>
To: <ccc-members@yahoogroups.com>; <cmap@mapinc.org>; <ndpot@drugsense.org>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 11:20 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Invitation to withdraw libellous statements (fwd)

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

December 5, 2004

Mr. Christopher Patrick Bennett (aka Christopher Patrick Bennet)
Manager, POT-TV.NET
307 West Hastings St.
Vancouver, BC
V6B 1H6

Dear Mr. Bennett.

Following up to your private email, where you asserted “Sorry Buddy but your
name is Mud” [sic], you notified me that the following libellous statement about
Cannasat Pharmaceuticals, The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana
Laws in Canada, Professor Alan N. Young, and myself, to wit:

“It has just been revealed that not only is Alan Young on both the NORML Canada
Board of Directors and involved with Canaasat, but now also Tim Meehan, the
Secretary of NORML Canada. Tim has made it clear NORML Canada has a new major
source of funding, what is unclear, considering NORML Canada does not want to
make its funding public, is if this is Cannasat money.”

appears here:
http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=current&Number=1001209&Main=922451#Post1001209

As, in fact, I am not on the Board of Directors of Cannasat Pharmaceuticals, as
you have falsely stated, I would invite you to withdraw these comments
immediately, or face possible legal action against yourself and your employer.

Govern yourself accordingly.

-Tim Meehan
Secretary and Director of Communications
The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws in Canada
593-C Bank Street
Ottawa, ON K1S 3T4
(613) 230-1937

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:10:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 05 December 2004 21:18
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction

Hi Nick !

Thank you for your E-Mail. Obviously we have a different opinion
on demon ,
🙂 I enjoy the topic even if I am not an Excorcist
I think in my humble opinion that you have different types of Dai-mon or
lost soul or nature  spirit  etc..

Hey Francis,

I don’t argue there are different types of demon, whatever. Just pointing
out that in actuality they are all You! All just facets of Yourself. The
discriminatory function of mind that allows us to say this thing is
different from that itself proceeds from one core assumption – that You are
this body, these feelings, this mind. This is also fine but it is only one
aspect of who you are – it is who you are as an ego, as a relative entity
surrounded by other relative entities.

If you take a big dose of iboga, as during Bwiti initiation, the
stranglehold of ego-consciousness can be broken for a while and the mind’s
partitioning is cut through. They called it “breaking open the head.” In
this space you are joined to the universal mind. You experience the
un-barrieredness of life, just flowing where it will. And you are aware that
it is all You. From this perspective and from the memory of this experience
you can see that it matters not what something looks like for what it
fundamentally IS is You. Big demons, little demons, ones with pointy teeth
or big scary hebrew names, it just doesn’t matter because they are all You.
They are all what you are giving yourself to grow as an ego.

So…to try and cast them out is merely the discriminatory function of mind
operating from an unenlightened, fear-based perspective. And for sure it
will go on. But, once the stranglehold of ego-consciousness is broken for a
while then the sheer folly of trying to cast anything out of anywhere will
be so apparent that the fear will dissipate and what we are afraid of can be
looked at more closely.

For esample :
Robert Louis Stevenson credited ” is little people, or brownies” as he
called them for is litterary output. I think they where nice,
begnin little
creature.
Socrate’ s daimon had been interpreted as his higher self, unconscious …
and at this end was a moralist Dai-mon never an evil being
In the case of  Pearl Curran  writting books after books ain a perfect
medieval style we have the collaboration of a begnin entitie.I
love the case
of Rosemary Brown and her relation with the soul of Frantz Liszt .
But you have anothers demons like in the mass possession of loudun
http://www.nd.edu/~dharley/witchcraft/Loudun.html

and I’ve seen very scary possession in Africa quite similar to the one of
Loudin
You wrote :

You wrote :
And for sure the route of “casting out demons” will
be tried and tested.

It been done as far as we know everyday, everywhere for more than 4 000
years.

Yes, and it will go on until there is the realization of who we actually
are. Then it will stop because there will be no more choice to believe there
is anywhere else but You. I was hanging out with a Balinese guy called Ratu
Bagus recently (www.ratubagus.org.uk), helping on one of his retreats. He’s
a Qi Gong master who was brought up with martial arts, Kung Fu and that. He
said that at some point he realized it was pointless to teach Kung Fu
anymore, despite being a great master, as there wasn’t actually anybody for
anyone to fight! He had realized who he was and in so doing had realized
that there weren’t actually any enemies! Same thing with demons, we go on
trying to cast them out until we realize who we actually are. Then it’s
pointless!

You are God and
there’s only You in the universe

This is an existential truth remembered by those who have experienced it.
There’s also the relative truth of being an ego and wanting nice things
which we all have. Both are equally valid, it’s just that some are more
aware of the former than others. It doesn’t matter.

with love

Nick

– I disagree
In near death experience with DMT some trip where very different that the
one you describe include rape and torture by evil entities
Anyway we could go on and on on this subject for days 🙂 With no much
result for both of us, I am afraid. I believe what I believe
because I have
seen possession and I was victim of one for years.

Not so long ago a kid in Miami had a gun in his hand and show it
to his best
friend in a car. Suddently he had the compulsion to pull the
triger and shot
his best friend in the head…. Dead.
Why diid you kill your best friend ? I dont know …
Another kid shoot his  teacher . Why ? he didn’t know.
Just by reading the life of serial killers you can discover a pattern, the
dot beetween the killings.
By reading the life of the Saints you will discover a pattern, the dot
beetween the blessings
God Bless you.

Hey Francis, man….you cannot cast out demons! For the simple
reason that
there’s nowhere for them to go. There’s no outside. If you take
drugs like
ibogaine or ayahuasca for a while you will become familiar with watching
the
creation of the universe, the Big Bang, it’s amazing. Many users will
report
this. It happens because when the artificial fencing of the mind is
removed
by the drug, one is joined back into the Great Mind, the mind
of God. You
see the Big Bang because you watched it before, you see the universe
unfold
because it’s your memory. You were there when it happened. You
are God and
there’s only You in the universe. Of course, back in regular day-to-day
ego
consciousness, it seems like you’re just this little body with these
feelings and stuff, but now you also know the other side of the
story. The
demons are just parts of you trying to help you grow. The universe grows
you
like a little plant, watering you with demons on a regular
basis, testing
the ego with plights and problems to allow it to grow. For sure
they seem
like demons for a while. And for sure the route of “casting out demons”
will
be tried and tested. And, you can do all the chanting, charming and
healing
you like, but at some point, in some lifetime, you’re gonna start to ask
“What is it really like to be possessed by demons totally? What
is it like
to let them in?” And at that point you’re going to expand. And when you
expand you can carry around a whole pack of demons and use
their energy to
do what you will.

I mean, if you’re talking about doing ritual magic and stuff to actually
conjure up demons then you’re kind of jumping in at the deep end. But if
demons are just coming at you, then you can also look at what they’re
with,
not just reach for Solomon and his book of spells. He never existed in
real
life, anyway. Like most of the Bible, it’s just allegory.

with love

Nick

You wrote:..
When they try and possess you it’s
just because they love you and want you to grow.
The fear is just the
reaction of mind. Having created an image of who you are it tries to
defend
this image and doesn’t want a load of demons coming in and
messing it up.
The way out is to throw your arms open wide and say Yes to
the demons!
Solomon doesn’t really cast out the demons he just allows them to be
integrated into the mind’s concept of who you are. Demons are great!

The concept of “Solomon sinning” is just the allowing the
real You to
pretend you’re just this little thing, sometimes known as “the
Fall”, it’s
just a little game really.

with love

Nick

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 9:07:25 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

best of luck and wishese Beatrice, thinking well of you here.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Beatrice Blue” <beatriceblue@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 11:19 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….

OK, guys, my guide is here.  I’m getting ready to get administered to at 12
pm EST.  In 45 minutes.  Pretty sick now.  Very anxious, nervous.  This is my
second time, as some of you may know.  The first was last month and was a
screw up.  I’ll post all about it and this time when I’m through here. Could be
days, but hopefully not too long!  Whatever your beliefs, please say a quick
prayer for me!  I need this part of my life to be through, I’m so sick and tired
of being sick and tired.  Could use all the help I can get.  Keep me in mind,
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

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From: Fosterwash14@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: removal from list
Date: December 6, 2004 at 8:06:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

please remove me from ibogaine list
no longer need list
thank you
rf

From: “laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) – Unsubscribe Command for laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr
Date: December 6, 2004 at 7:42:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Le 6/12/04 12:38, «?Lee Albert?» <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit?:
Thanks lee
Click on this link for the unsubscriber command:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html <http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html>

Adios

“laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr> wrote:
Le 6/12/04 12:20, «?Lee Albert?» <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit?:

Hi everybody,

Can anyone tel me how to get out of the mailing list, it jams by mailbox, thanks

L

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) – Unsubscribe Command for laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr
Date: December 6, 2004 at 6:38:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Click on this link for the unsubscriber command:

http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html

Adios

“laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr> wrote:
Le 6/12/04 12:20, «?Lee Albert?» <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit?:

Hi everybody,

Can anyone tel me how to get out of the mailing list, it jams by mailbox, thanks

L

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29276/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/bulldog/index.html>  to make your dream a reality.

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21626/*http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com> – all new features – even more fun!

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Win a castle <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=28672/*http://www.yahoo.co.uk/popularity> for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From: “laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 7:31:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Le 6/12/04 12:20, «?Lee Albert?» <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> a écrit?:

Hi everybody,

Can anyone tel me how to get out of the mailing list, it jams by mailbox, thanks

L

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert <mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=29276/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/bulldog/index.html>  to make your dream a reality.

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21626/*http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com> – all new features – even more fun!

<http://www.my-eboga.com/> http://www.my-eboga.com <http://www.my-eboga.com/>

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html <http://www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html>
Win a castle <http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=28672/*http://www.yahoo.co.uk/popularity> for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 6, 2004 at 6:21:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)
Date: December 6, 2004 at 6:20:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 6, 2004 at 5:06:34 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi guys,
Thankyou for all your kind words,bless you all.
I am day 20,
Well,…I got here on the 15th of November,took first dose on the 16th,
So  I suppose 17th is the first day,day 1.., 20 daysnow.,Mmmm,feeling better,
however expected to be feeling better than this by now. I am still weary,emotionally,physically and the all.

I have to remember though that I was on ‘Done for 23 years.1 Day for each year would be nice.

The cannabis tea and cookies have helped tremendously,like a medicine.

I ate some of natures pretty mushrooms and that seemed to clear the cobwebs,
like a broom behind the Eboga sweeping up the cobwebs left after the Eboga blast clean.

Sara is right about the mushrooms and the cannabis,as medicine,as nature intended,when needed.

Mental energy getting better,…word to thought sparking again ,so easier to type.
As if reborn,at the fetal stage,having to re learn how to walk,talk,choose who I want to be, to experience being all that I can be.
A true knowingness of the ability to achieve beyond my wildest dreams.I now truly know who I am .

I have honey in my heart,the honeypot is almost over flowing,heaven is very generous.
A supraconcious knowing of being one with nature and all of life,the ying and the yang,
Life,….no beginning and no end,the alfa and the omega,the here the there and the in between

Life with No end.A spiral.
.

I am abroad until the 12th of December.Only 6 more days I can go home,Wow ,…so looking forward to home,
I am sooooo home sick. This boredom drives me crazy.I think no matter where you do this you will feel really bored.

Boredom must be a process,maybe it is necessary not to be busy,I don’t know,I just find it hard to handle.
I can feel my whole body,my legs are still not totally grounded,my lower and middle back still crying for their
Dose like babies crying for their milk. Wanting to stretch out of my skin still.Hey,…it’s necessary, I think.

I am free,this is a small sacrifice,I am so excited about life now.

Keep thinking, want to go home to my surroundings, might go home sooner. Miss my  friends. I know though that I should stay
And I will.
Will stay in Amsterdam for 4 nights.That should be entertaining.

I had a problem of always needing to be entertained,unless I was warmly nodding. I needed to consume.
I now know I was only half living.I could not have admitted that before.

I quit the habit of Methadone,and I also quit smoking,smoked sinced 10,buying them at 12 . Thought I was so cool,
What a d ck. Huh huh.I can’t believe I am not smoking.No methadone,No heroin or cocaine. Nhaata.

WOW.
With love Jasen.

Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2004 6:38
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free

Thank you Francis,

God bless you  too,

All the best,

Jasen and Sara.

Van: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2004 1:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] I am free free

Man , I am so happy for you !!

I have been collecting all your E_mail and Sarah’s ones throught your Journey

It’s beautiful !!
God bless you and Sara
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

In a message dated 12/4/04 3:01:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Wow,the feeling of being off the Doné’ is wonderfully freeing.
I am Free
I am Free
I am Free
And it is wonderful!


                           With love Jasen 🙂
Jasen Jeff here in NYC i am 29 days out of my last dose of methadone and yes yes yes it is aslow crawl back to full strength i am stuck at about 65% of me right now and although not everyday is better every few days sure are
i have been getting about 4-5 hours a night of decnt sleep then i pretend for a while before getting up
Great to have followed your long long journey I hope to do the same sometime…
tell Sara hello from Jeff and Rachel
hang tough brtother
Jeff

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:23:19 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

GO BEATRICE!!!!  BIG SQUISHY HUGS LOVE LIGHT AND CHOCOLATE (FOR WHEN YOU’RE
FEELING BETTER)
I LOOK FORWARD TO YOU BEING ANOTHER SUCCESS STORY FOR ME TO ADD TO MY
COLLECTION FOR WHEN MY TIME COMES.
ALL THE BEST DARLIN’
BE WITH ANGELS
KIRSTY DAWN

—–Original Message—–
From: Beatrice Blue [mailto:beatriceblue@cox.net]
Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 5:19 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….

OK, guys, my guide is here.  I’m getting ready to get administered to at 12
pm EST.  In 45 minutes.  Pretty sick now.  Very anxious, nervous.  This is
my
second time, as some of you may know.  The first was last month and was a
screw up.  I’ll post all about it and this time when I’m through here.
Could be
days, but hopefully not too long!  Whatever your beliefs, please say a quick

prayer for me!  I need this part of my life to be through, I’m so sick and
tired
of being sick and tired.  Could use all the help I can get.  Keep me in
mind,
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Quotable Quotes
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:18:03 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

People need to leave the states and have a good look in from the outside
(not you lot of course). It’s amazing how seeing things from a different
perspective changes things a lot.
Yes, I am going to follow my words! I want to leave this country asap to
look back and see what the rest of the world sees!!! But from what I gather,
it’s a bit rose-tinted….

—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector [mailto:vector620022002@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 10:56 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Quotable Quotes

Lee that quote sums up how I feel and I’m an American. Who vocted for
this guy and what’s happening to us?

You are going to start Faith back up you know that of course Lee 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Dear List,

Sorry for getting anyones back up with this but it really struck me
as
scary:

Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not
vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s
in
the White House because God put him there for a time such as this: Lt
Gen William Boykin, speaking of G. W. Bush, New York Times, 17
October
2003

God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and
unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany.
Hermann
Goering, speaking of Hitler

Taken from: Information Clearing House.
An alternative independent non-commercial source for news,
information
and insight.
PLEASE  ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO SUBSCRIBE
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/subscribe.htm
There is no point I guess in trying to convert anyone. As a wise
friend
of mine once said, an opinion changed by force is no change at all.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media
available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bl!p
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:15:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, are ya going Dotty on us?
Kirk
Sorry couldn’t resist

—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@wiretap.com]
Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 10:17 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] bl!p

Dot –> .

Patrick

MindVox Transcendental Enlightenment Temple / Heroin Maintenance Clinic

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 6, 2004 at 2:15:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Shite yeh, we Kiwi’s say it all the time, next to Bugger off course….
And actually, I always thought it came from the Irish. Ever see the
commitments??  Shite and fek I got from that!!!
As in , fek dah lotta yah, this is a load of ole shite!!
KIrk

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 10:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

Come on, only Geordies say “shite.” Cockneys say
“shit” like everyone else.

Actually, I have heard people from all over the UK use
this term, and also Aussies and a few Kiwis…a group
of dudes from Ireland I met while travelling also use
this word.  It’s usage seems to be euphemistic and
jocular.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:20:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’re in my thoughts and prayers. Hope you do well
and want to hear more from you as soon as you come
back! 🙂

Carla B

— Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net> wrote:

OK, guys, my guide is here.  I’m getting ready to
get administered to at 12
pm EST.  In 45 minutes.  Pretty sick now.  Very
anxious, nervous.  This is my
second time, as some of you may know.  The first was
last month and was a
screw up.  I’ll post all about it and this time when
I’m through here.  Could be
days, but hopefully not too long!  Whatever your
beliefs, please say a quick
prayer for me!  I need this part of my life to be
through, I’m so sick and tired
of being sick and tired.  Could use all the help I
can get.  Keep me in mind,
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] The decline of Marc Emery’s cannabis culture
Date: December 6, 2004 at 1:19:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector could you please leave all of it on Drugwar, I
for one am just as happy not to have every episode of
the pot wars in the middle of the ibogaine list! 😉

Thank you!
Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

There are too many messages to follow. Preston what
happened with all
of this? I know activists were mad at Marc when he
pled guilty, then
since he got out of prison from the looks of the
lawyers and others
posting to drugwar that he is going down in flames?

.:vector:.

— Tim Meehan <fc697@ncf.ca> wrote:

Here’s the story behind this:

Marc Emery is trying to take credit for work he
didn’t do. He has a
long history
of that. He likes to tell people that he gives
“millions of dollars a

year in
activism” but I’d put that figure closer to tens
of thousands, and
above all,
expects droit de seigneur (no, I’m serious) for
most attractive
acceptees.

We’ve been biting our tongues for years, however
now he’s gone too
far,
and
pissed off most of the serious activist community
in Canada. The only

people
still supporting him are his employees and others
who depend on him
for
their
income — and they are now attacking NORML Canada.

Sadly, one of their pit bulls just libeled myself
— and by extension

two of the
biggest lawyers in Canada.  Not a smart move.

Also, don’t expect pot-tv.net or
cannabisculture.com to last much
longer —
they’ve already started to shut down different
projects, they’re
reneging on
salaries and reimbursement, and they’ve alienated
most of their
allies.

Part of this is because they are creeping into
irrelevance and they
know it.
Cannabis activism is moving into the hallways of
Parliament, and away

from the
smoky back rooms of Vancouver.

If you are owed money from EmeryCo I would suggest
collecting it now

(or trying
to) before it’s too late.

-Tim

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn
more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] The decline of Marc Emery’s cannabis culture
Date: December 6, 2004 at 12:12:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There are too many messages to follow. Preston what happened with all
of this? I know activists were mad at Marc when he pled guilty, then
since he got out of prison from the looks of the lawyers and others
posting to drugwar that he is going down in flames?

.:vector:.

— Tim Meehan <fc697@ncf.ca> wrote:

Here’s the story behind this:

Marc Emery is trying to take credit for work he didn’t do. He has a
long history
of that. He likes to tell people that he gives “millions of dollars a

year in
activism” but I’d put that figure closer to tens of thousands, and
above all,
expects droit de seigneur (no, I’m serious) for most attractive
acceptees.

We’ve been biting our tongues for years, however now he’s gone too
far,
and
pissed off most of the serious activist community in Canada. The only

people
still supporting him are his employees and others who depend on him
for
their
income — and they are now attacking NORML Canada.

Sadly, one of their pit bulls just libeled myself — and by extension

two of the
biggest lawyers in Canada.  Not a smart move.

Also, don’t expect pot-tv.net or cannabisculture.com to last much
longer —
they’ve already started to shut down different projects, they’re
reneging on
salaries and reimbursement, and they’ve alienated most of their
allies.

Part of this is because they are creeping into irrelevance and they
know it.
Cannabis activism is moving into the hallways of Parliament, and away

from the
smoky back rooms of Vancouver.

If you are owed money from EmeryCo I would suggest collecting it now

(or trying
to) before it’s too late.

-Tim

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Getting ready to go now….
Date: December 5, 2004 at 11:19:09 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, guys, my guide is here.  I’m getting ready to get administered to at 12
pm EST.  In 45 minutes.  Pretty sick now.  Very anxious, nervous.  This is my
second time, as some of you may know.  The first was last month and was a
screw up.  I’ll post all about it and this time when I’m through here.  Could be
days, but hopefully not too long!  Whatever your beliefs, please say a quick
prayer for me!  I need this part of my life to be through, I’m so sick and tired
of being sick and tired.  Could use all the help I can get.  Keep me in mind,
please.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: Sirius, Biafra, Harvey, Rossetto, Fraser
Date: December 5, 2004 at 10:18:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, apocalypsenow@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bl1p –>

Begin forwarded message:

From: “R.U. Sirius” <rusirius@well.com>
Date: December 3, 2004 5:44:42 PM EST
To: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Sirius, Biafra, Harvey, Rossetto, Fraser

Please Pass It On

Commonwealth Club, San Francisco, CA

December 14, 2004

Rebels and Visionaries, the Impact of Counterculture – Panel Discussion

Moderator: Laura Fraser
Panelists: RU Sirius, Larry Harvey (Burning Man), Jello Biafra (Dead Kennedys, Alternative Tentacles), Louis Rossetto (Co-Founder, Editor-in-Chief & CEO, Wired Magazine and Wired Digital)

6:30PM
595 Market St
San Francisco, CA
$12 for Members, $20 for non-Members, $7 for Students (w/ID, call 415/597-6705 to reserve student tickets)

Please Pass It On

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)
Date: December 5, 2004 at 9:07:47 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , acccording to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to suppport his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s uraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?
Date: December 5, 2004 at 6:51:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Benzos are prescription drugs, primarily for anxiety and insomnia, and to
control seizures. They can actually be pretty useful when used carefully.

“Puts hand up and vouches for this with big grin”
(And many apologies to those with habits, I don’t mean to be cruel..)
—
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 – Release Date: 11/30/2004

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies
Date: December 5, 2004 at 6:48:22 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Send me a root  by crikey I’ll givvitah go mate!!
Hemp and it’s family members grow something wicked down here mate!  Anyone can grow it! Shame they’d get locked up for doing so although I have heard that some farmers do grow it as a cash crop AND declare it to the IRD.
Cheeky I luv it!!
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 1:10 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies

I want to move to New Zealand. My Grandfather grew hemp on the family farm, I bet some of it rubbed off on me. I think I could make it grow down under.HeHe Wonder if you could propagate Tabernathe Iboga there?              Randy

—
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 5, 2004 at 4:18:24 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick !

Thank you for your E-Mail. Obviously we have a different opinion on demon ,
🙂 I enjoy the topic even if I am not an Excorcist
I think in my humble opinion that you have different types of Dai-mon or
lost soul or nature  spirit  etc..

For esample :
Robert Louis Stevenson credited ” is little people, or brownies” as he
called them for is litterary output. I think they where nice, begnin little
creature.
Socrate’ s daimon had been interpreted as his higher self, unconscious …
and at this end was a moralist Dai-mon never an evil being
In the case of  Pearl Curran  writting books after books ain a perfect
medieval style we have the collaboration of a begnin entitie.I love the case
of Rosemary Brown and her relation with the soul of Frantz Liszt .
But you have anothers demons like in the mass possession of loudun
http://www.nd.edu/~dharley/witchcraft/Loudun.html

and I’ve seen very scary possession in Africa quite similar to the one of
Loudin
You wrote :

You wrote :
And for sure the route of “casting out demons” will
be tried and tested.

It been done as far as we know everyday, everywhere for more than 4 000
years.

You are God and
there’s only You in the universe

– I disagree
In near death experience with DMT some trip where very different that the
one you describe include rape and torture by evil entities
Anyway we could go on and on on this subject for days 🙂 With no much
result for both of us, I am afraid. I believe what I believe because I have
seen possession and I was victim of one for years.

Not so long ago a kid in Miami had a gun in his hand and show it to his best
friend in a car. Suddently he had the compulsion to pull the triger and shot
his best friend in the head…. Dead.
Why diid you kill your best friend ? I dont know …
Another kid shoot his  teacher . Why ? he didn’t know.
Just by reading the life of serial killers you can discover a pattern, the
dot beetween the killings.
By reading the life of the Saints you will discover a pattern, the dot
beetween the blessings
God Bless you.

Hey Francis, man….you cannot cast out demons! For the simple reason that
there’s nowhere for them to go. There’s no outside. If you take drugs like
ibogaine or ayahuasca for a while you will become familiar with watching
the
creation of the universe, the Big Bang, it’s amazing. Many users will
report
this. It happens because when the artificial fencing of the mind is
removed
by the drug, one is joined back into the Great Mind, the mind of God. You
see the Big Bang because you watched it before, you see the universe
unfold
because it’s your memory. You were there when it happened. You are God and
there’s only You in the universe. Of course, back in regular day-to-day
ego
consciousness, it seems like you’re just this little body with these
feelings and stuff, but now you also know the other side of the story. The
demons are just parts of you trying to help you grow. The universe grows
you
like a little plant, watering you with demons on a regular basis, testing
the ego with plights and problems to allow it to grow. For sure they seem
like demons for a while. And for sure the route of “casting out demons”
will
be tried and tested. And, you can do all the chanting, charming and
healing
you like, but at some point, in some lifetime, you’re gonna start to ask
“What is it really like to be possessed by demons totally? What is it like
to let them in?” And at that point you’re going to expand. And when you
expand you can carry around a whole pack of demons and use their energy to
do what you will.

I mean, if you’re talking about doing ritual magic and stuff to actually
conjure up demons then you’re kind of jumping in at the deep end. But if
demons are just coming at you, then you can also look at what they’re
with,
not just reach for Solomon and his book of spells. He never existed in
real
life, anyway. Like most of the Bible, it’s just allegory.

with love

Nick

You wrote:..
When they try and possess you it’s
just because they love you and want you to grow.
The fear is just the
reaction of mind. Having created an image of who you are it tries to
defend
this image and doesn’t want a load of demons coming in and
messing it up.
The way out is to throw your arms open wide and say Yes to the demons!
Solomon doesn’t really cast out the demons he just allows them to be
integrated into the mind’s concept of who you are. Demons are great!

The concept of “Solomon sinning” is just the allowing the real You to
pretend you’re just this little thing, sometimes known as “the
Fall”, it’s
just a little game really.

with love

Nick

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)
Date: December 5, 2004 at 3:30:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 5, 2004 at 2:50:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 05 December 2004 17:29
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction

Hi Nick !
Thank you for your E-mail
Here is my two cents:
Solomon come from the hebrew world for Peace , appropriate because during
his reign Israel did enjoy relatively hight security. Nathan use
to call him
Jedidiah  meaning  “Love by the Lord”

You wrote
Solomon =

Sol – Sun (latin)
Om – God (sanskrit)
On – God (egyptian)

Solomon is an Old Testament magic word compounded from other languages.
Solomon is just a symbol for the real You. The demons are there to grow
you,
they are the most direct form of growth.

I disagree :
‘Many spirits and demons did Solomon vanquish’ (Exod. R xxx. 16), although
the power deserted him later in life because, as it is said,
‘Until Solomon
sinned he ruled over the demons’ (Pesikta 45b).’

Another citation, this time from the Jewish Historian Josephus ;

‘God also enabled him to learn the art which expels demons,
which is useful
and works cures for men. He composed charms also by which diseases are
alleviated. And he left behind him forms of exorcisms, by which
people drive
away demons so that they never return, and this method of cure is of very
great value unto this day; for I have seen a certain man of my
own country,
whose name was Eleazar, curing people possessed by demons in the
presence of
Vespasian and his sons and captains and the whole of his soldiers. The
manner of the cure was as follows; he put a ring that had under
its seal one
of those sorts of roots mentioned by Solomon to the nostrils of the
demoniac, and then drew the demon out through his nostrils as he smelt it;
and when the man fell down immediately, he adjured the demon to
return into
him no more, still making mention of Solomon, and reciting the incantation
which he had composed’ (Antiq. viii, ii5).”

Nick go to :
http://religion.rutgers.edu/iho/exorcism.html

Sorry for the BOLD letters I copy and paste from another document.
God Bless you
Francis

Hey Francis, man….you cannot cast out demons! For the simple reason that
there’s nowhere for them to go. There’s no outside. If you take drugs like
ibogaine or ayahuasca for a while you will become familiar with watching the
creation of the universe, the Big Bang, it’s amazing. Many users will report
this. It happens because when the artificial fencing of the mind is removed
by the drug, one is joined back into the Great Mind, the mind of God. You
see the Big Bang because you watched it before, you see the universe unfold
because it’s your memory. You were there when it happened. You are God and
there’s only You in the universe. Of course, back in regular day-to-day ego
consciousness, it seems like you’re just this little body with these
feelings and stuff, but now you also know the other side of the story. The
demons are just parts of you trying to help you grow. The universe grows you
like a little plant, watering you with demons on a regular basis, testing
the ego with plights and problems to allow it to grow. For sure they seem
like demons for a while. And for sure the route of “casting out demons” will
be tried and tested. And, you can do all the chanting, charming and healing
you like, but at some point, in some lifetime, you’re gonna start to ask
“What is it really like to be possessed by demons totally? What is it like
to let them in?” And at that point you’re going to expand. And when you
expand you can carry around a whole pack of demons and use their energy to
do what you will.

I mean, if you’re talking about doing ritual magic and stuff to actually
conjure up demons then you’re kind of jumping in at the deep end. But if
demons are just coming at you, then you can also look at what they’re with,
not just reach for Solomon and his book of spells. He never existed in real
life, anyway. Like most of the Bible, it’s just allegory.

with love

Nick

You wrote:..
When they try and possess you it’s
just because they love you and want you to grow.
The fear is just the
reaction of mind. Having created an image of who you are it tries to
defend
this image and doesn’t want a load of demons coming in and
messing it up.
The way out is to throw your arms open wide and say Yes to the demons!
Solomon doesn’t really cast out the demons he just allows them to be
integrated into the mind’s concept of who you are. Demons are great!

The concept of “Solomon sinning” is just the allowing the real You to
pretend you’re just this little thing, sometimes known as “the
Fall”, it’s
just a little game really.

with love

Nick

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From: “jon” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?
Date: December 5, 2004 at 2:36:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been
sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly
addiction?

Benzos are prescription drugs, primarily for anxiety and insomnia, and to
control seizures. They can actually be pretty useful when used carefully.

While benzo addiction can be quite ugly, the hardest and most deadly
addiction is tobacco, no contest. Tobacco kills hundreds of thousands more
Americans than ALL other drugs combined, including alcohol. It also has
the highest rate of addiction of any substance, legal or illegal.

…he says as he lights a cig….

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)
Date: December 5, 2004 at 2:26:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] For Nick out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 5, 2004 at 12:28:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick !
Thank you for your E-mail
Here is my two cents:
Solomon come from the hebrew world for Peace , appropriate because during
his reign Israel did enjoy relatively hight security. Nathan use to call him
Jedidiah  meaning  “Love by the Lord”

You wrote
Solomon =

Sol – Sun (latin)
Om – God (sanskrit)
On – God (egyptian)

Solomon is an Old Testament magic word compounded from other languages.
Solomon is just a symbol for the real You. The demons are there to grow
you,
they are the most direct form of growth.

I disagree :
‘Many spirits and demons did Solomon vanquish’ (Exod. R xxx. 16), although
the power deserted him later in life because, as it is said, ‘Until Solomon
sinned he ruled over the demons’ (Pesikta 45b).’

Another citation, this time from the Jewish Historian Josephus ;

‘God also enabled him to learn the art which expels demons, which is useful
and works cures for men. He composed charms also by which diseases are
alleviated. And he left behind him forms of exorcisms, by which people drive
away demons so that they never return, and this method of cure is of very
great value unto this day; for I have seen a certain man of my own country,
whose name was Eleazar, curing people possessed by demons in the presence of
Vespasian and his sons and captains and the whole of his soldiers. The
manner of the cure was as follows; he put a ring that had under its seal one
of those sorts of roots mentioned by Solomon to the nostrils of the
demoniac, and then drew the demon out through his nostrils as he smelt it;
and when the man fell down immediately, he adjured the demon to return into
him no more, still making mention of Solomon, and reciting the incantation
which he had composed’ (Antiq. viii, ii5).”

Nick go to :
http://religion.rutgers.edu/iho/exorcism.html

Sorry for the BOLD letters I copy and paste from another document.
God Bless you
Francis

You wrote:..
When they try and possess you it’s
just because they love you and want you to grow.
The fear is just the
reaction of mind. Having created an image of who you are it tries to
defend
this image and doesn’t want a load of demons coming in and messing it up.
The way out is to throw your arms open wide and say Yes to the demons!
Solomon doesn’t really cast out the demons he just allows them to be
integrated into the mind’s concept of who you are. Demons are great!

The concept of “Solomon sinning” is just the allowing the real You to
pretend you’re just this little thing, sometimes known as “the Fall”, it’s
just a little game really.

with love

Nick

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?
Date: December 5, 2004 at 10:27:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

benzo equal valium xanax and the like

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Quotable Quotes
Date: December 5, 2004 at 10:09:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector!

You know very well I would not intentionally start up an online exchange of heat even if it helps to keep my heart warm reading it. I guess there is some perverse pleasure in watching others go off. No disrepect but I laughed my self silly when I read the line on the post that said: To the bitch called …. (No disrepect to her intended on my part.)

The day the results came through I refused to read anything in the papers. I didnt look at TV (Dont watch much of it at all. I think its pure shite.) I kept the newsletters in my inbox unopened. My mind was unable to digest a lot of palp from respectable papers about Bush’s intentions for the second term. I actually felt close to depression for about a week. Eventually I tried to pretend there was no election and nothing had changed. Then I began to see the bright side of it. I wont need to buy any comics as there is a big clown on the tv every night.

Dont know what comics you have over there. Mine were all British (I am Irish and very glad of it as I love Ireland to pieces)  – learned bits of German from them as the Brits always killed the hun. Actung. Who goes there? Siek heil! (Now is that German or … ?) Other words too as they fell into their trenches from the shot of a single bullet. What economy! (Not good for a highly productive arms industry.) Nowadays you have rounds and rounds. Imagine how that fucks up your mind? Incredible.

What I liked about the comics was how you had characters for everything. A bit like the American cabinet.

Sorry, but I have been holding this back for too long. I may have a mission to turn the world onto love and peace through copious amounts of eboga and to build a chapel (temple?) one day (not my idea – I am not pro religion, sorry. Maybe its a necessary evil.) but I didn’t sign anything that said I have to keep my mouth shut about shite, shit or merde. In fact the more eboga one experiences the less fear there is to pretend there is no shite, shit or merde as its so absolutely fucking obvious.

I guess its about discretion in the end.

Love & Peace particularly to those whose lives have been irreparably traumatised and brutalised and utterly abused by the shampagne cadillac class….Sorry, can I get you a drink? Oh, no! Forgive me. I am just a piece of shit or was that shite????

Lee

Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lee that quote sums up how I feel and I’m an American. Who vocted for
this guy and what’s happening to us?

You are going to start Faith back up you know that of course Lee 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert wrote:

> Dear List,
>
> Sorry for getting anyones back up with this but it really struck me
> as
> scary:
>
> Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not
> vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s
> in
> the White House because God put him there for a time such as this: Lt
> Gen William Boykin, speaking of G. W. Bush, New York Times, 17
> October
> 2003
>
> God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and
> unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany.
> Hermann
> Goering, speaking of Hitler
>
> Taken from: Information Clearing House.
> An alternative independent non-commercial source for news,
> information
> and insight.
> PLEASE  ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO SUBSCRIBE
> http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/subscribe.htm
> There is no point I guess in trying to convert anyone. As a wise
> friend
> of mine once said, an opinion changed by force is no change at all.
>
> Love & Light
>
> Lee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media
> available here:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!
>

__________________________________
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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?
Date: December 5, 2004 at 9:39:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)
Date: December 5, 2004 at 9:36:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And I know everyone is happy for you. You are doing well post ibo. Looks like you are on a winner. A lot of changes coming through in your posts. Congratulations. Lee

BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
Jasen, have you looked at the staying clean link on the Mindvox page? There is some good advice there. I know for me that after 2 months I still feel rewired. The world hasn’t changed but what is in my head has. I intend to make it stay that way. Counseling, 12 step meetings, and being on this list daily keep me in the mix. Plus I never read this list without at least once laughing. It used to make me cry. Really. I really don’t mean to preach, I just want to see you get where you are going and be happy. I sure am.       Randy

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine meet
Date: December 5, 2004 at 7:57:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron asks “when did junkies afford computers”? I remember the old days too. The junkies that I knew where all pretty smart. Everybody had some kind of intricate scam going to keep feeding their addiction. Beating alarms or busting scripts or whatever. Computers are taught in school now and any junkie who can keep scoring could channel that energy into staying clean, and using a computer to do so makes sense. I’d like to see everyone who does Ibogaine get access to a computer somehow. Or at least be able to get on the list and access it daily.               Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)
Date: December 5, 2004 at 7:33:09 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, have you looked at the staying clean link on the Mindvox page? There is some good advice there. I know for me that after 2 months I still feel rewired. The world hasn’t changed but what is in my head has. I intend to make it stay that way. Counseling, 12 step meetings, and being on this list daily keep me in the mix. Plus I never read this list without at least once laughing. It used to make me cry. Really. I really don’t mean to preach, I just want to see you get where you are going and be happy. I sure am.       Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies
Date: December 5, 2004 at 7:10:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I want to move to New Zealand. My Grandfather grew hemp on the family farm, I bet some of it rubbed off on me. I think I could make it grow down under.HeHe Wonder if you could propagate Tabernathe Iboga there?              Randy

From: Mauro Solorzano <msolorza@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I’ll take the blue pill
Date: December 5, 2004 at 5:49:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey man what’s a benzo?

-M
zoom zoom into the Valiant trough of red wine and benzos and a holiday party with friends all of a sudden fessing up pharmy tales of oxycontins and ultracets and pain and pain and pain.  “eye” never knew how much was around me, until we broke our silence, and now there is this whole other level of support that, well, maybe can’t quite comprehend all aspects of the revisions in the story jeff used to tell.  but are there for us in a different, deeper, intense way.

we really missed the downtime of the list last night – thought maybe the entities or beings or whatever had gotten into the mix.

martee – what do you take for gallbladder/liver stuff besides cutting out the fat and taking milk thistle?

love, rachel

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 5, 2004 at 4:59:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did the same in London, once staying off H for a few weeks even, but as Hannah, I always went back.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…

Yes I detoxed off H physically using methadone several times over the years.
I’d just use it for 4 or 5 days.  It wasn’t long enough to get a habit but
did get me through most of my H wd’s-pretty cool.

But…it didn’t do anything for me psychologically and I’d always relapse
soon afterwards-else I wouldn’t be here!

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…

Beatrice,
I think you may indeed have unknowingly done the best thing for
yourself all the way around.  Where many of us, myself included, were
recommended to switch off methedone and back on H prior, I believe with
only
a few days of meth you can actually get past the h withdrawl for the most
part and not yet be really addicted to methedone yet.  What I used to do
to
kick (100’s of times it worked physically but never mentally) was 3 days
of
Methedone, and then stop.  In 3 days the H withdrawl was done and there
was
still an accumulation of Meth in the body to take you through another day
or
two without any withdrawl from either.  I believe the 28 day methedone
detox
protocol is to addict you to it not get you off anything.  Sounds like one
of the biggest scams perpetuated on the public by the drug companys, other
than the cholesterol scam they have going now.  Stopping at 5mgs of
methedone still leaves you with a whole lot of pain.
Beatrice, you have my prayers, support and blessings.  I
wish
all your intentions come to be.                 Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Beatrice Blue” <beatriceblue@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or
otherwise…

> Thank you so much, Howard!  From what I’ve heard, I value your opinion.
I
> guess I’ll just have to try my best and suffer through it, I suppose.
>
> Martee & Ms. Iboga, also thank you!  I have spoken to my providers that
> I’ll
> be working with this weekend, who also say no, so I have given up the
> Naltrexone idea completely.  From what all involved say, I should not
> experience even a tenth of what I did the first time.  And from the
sounds
> of it, what I will experience I’ll be able to handle.  I was a heroin
> addict
> for goodness sake, so lack of energy at least won’t be new.  After all,
I
> made a career out of my habit, I can’t expect overnight miracles.  And
I’m
> willing to do the necessary work.  Hopefully some of you will be there
for
> me if, and when, I need you when I return, and I hope I’ll be able to > do
> the
> same for some of you in the future.
>
> I’ll tell all of you all about my first experience (and my second!) > when
I
> return, but I’ll leave you with this about my first time around: I was
> indeed told to go on Methadone before my treatment, and actually didn’t
do
> it immediately when told to weeks beforehand.  Instead I waited until a
> few
> days beforehand and during travel.  I was told they didn’t feel
> comfortable
> with me being on something illegal, even though I kept asking which
would
> be
> better on mind and body regardless of legality.  Eventually I was told
> there
> would be no difference.  I received no boosters at all, even though I
> asked
> for some more.  I was given the same initial dosage as everyone else in
my
> group, no matter what our habits were, our sex, or our weight.  Almost
the
> entire group felt very mislead about several things about the program.
My
> ‘providers’ were very well respected and have been mentioned > extensively
> on
> this list.  Enough said.  I’m sure you all know who by now, but for
those
> of
> you who may not have guessed, read my experience diary when I return
after
> the 15th, if you’re interested.  I’ll definitely post it!
>
> Take care, and no matter your beliefs, please pray for me Sunday… I
need
> all the help I can get!!!!
> Beatrice
>
> BTW, I don’t know if this matters or not, but I’m a smoker.  I don’t
shoot
> or sniff, I smoke, and for 8-10 years I always have.
>
> On 12/2/04 2:40 PM, “HSLotsof@aol.com” <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> In a message dated 12/2/04 1:59:29 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:
>>
>> << Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share >> with
>> those
>>
>> of you that are interested both my first experience and then this
second.
>>
>> My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after >> 5-7
>>
>> days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my
>> body
>>
>> out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors >> help,
>> and
>>
>> after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5
hours
>> the
>>
>> most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I
could
>>
>> sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! >>
>>
>> If you are feeling bad naltrexone will make you feel worse.  I would >> be
>> very
>> skeptical about doing naltrexone less then 14 days post ibogaine.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>>
>>
>>
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 5, 2004 at 4:31:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 04 December 2004 01:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Hi Martee !

I ve seen the documentary on Salem too. But in my case it was possession
infortunately. Think about why should we  discard the idea of entities
possession ?

“An exceptional knowledge of such incantations for the overcoming
of demons
was attributed to King Solomon. ‘Many spirits and demons did Solomon
vanquish’ (Exod. R xxx. 16), although the power deserted him later in life
because, as it is said, ‘Until Solomon sinned he ruled over the demons’
(Pesikta 45b).'”

Solomon =

Sol – Sun (latin)
Om – God (sanskrit)
On – God (egyptian)

Solomon is an Old Testament magic word compounded from other languages.
Solomon is just a symbol for the real You. The demons are there to grow you,
they are the most direct form of growth. When they try and possess you it’s
just because they love you and want you to grow. The fear is just the
reaction of mind. Having created an image of who you are it tries to defend
this image and doesn’t want a load of demons coming in and messing it up.
The way out is to throw your arms open wide and say Yes to the demons!
Solomon doesn’t really cast out the demons he just allows them to be
integrated into the mind’s concept of who you are. Demons are great!

The concept of “Solomon sinning” is just the allowing the real You to
pretend you’re just this little thing, sometimes known as “the Fall”, it’s
just a little game really.

with love

Nick

The  Talmud too is full of references to exorcisme.
In the East :
The mother of Buddha : Mahamaya o maya was an exorcist.In the
Grec mythology
Maia was the grandmother of Magic.
In the  Veda you will find the Atharva veda  with several charm, hymn for
cures and depossession.
In the teaching of Zarathustra Ahriman is thougth to be the first
personification of the ” devil ”
In the Taoist I-Ching you will find references to demon too. I grow up in
Africa and I’ve seen real bad possession and I never found one tribe who
will deny the existence of evil. Same win South America with the
” Limpia ”
from The Santeria.Voddoo for the Caribe. Cuban Santeros and on and on..
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Francis,
I would like to think it is more accepting of a positive
power that
would be responsible for that kind of a change.  Not to doubt what you
have
seen and experienced, but I have a hard time totally excepting the
possession thing. Is it possible there can be a physical concrete reason
for
these things.  I saw a documentary years ago on PBS that detected during
the
time of the Salem witch hunts and trials the grains(I believe they were
rye)
had been molded and infested with fungus.  Ingesting certain types of
these
things can affect the brain and behavior.  I’ve seen how very many of my
clients have candida(fungus) systemically in their system and beside a
host
of physical issues it also leads to mind fog and depression.
Although truth be told I do have my own black ashen snake leaving my
body during my session that my host (very inutitive & somewhat psychic
abilities) saw and the demon energy that remained after I left that he
sent
down the hall to the drug dealers house story!
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
legion… ” 🙂

“I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.

Julie (unintentional Bible scholar)  🙂

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I’ll take the blue pill
Date: December 5, 2004 at 1:59:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

zoom zoom into the Valiant trough of red wine and benzos and a holiday party with friends all of a sudden fessing up pharmy tales of oxycontins and ultracets and pain and pain and pain.  “eye” never knew how much was around me, until we broke our silence, and now there is this whole other level of support that, well, maybe can’t quite comprehend all aspects of the revisions in the story jeff used to tell.  but are there for us in a different, deeper, intense way.

we really missed the downtime of the list last night – thought maybe the entities or beings or whatever had gotten into the mix.

martee – what do you take for gallbladder/liver stuff besides cutting out the fat and taking milk thistle?

love, rachel

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free
Date: December 5, 2004 at 12:38:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Francis,

God bless you  too,

All the best,

Jasen and Sara.

Van: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net] 
Verzonden: zondag 5 december 2004 1:23
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] I am free free

Man , I am so happy for you !!

I have been collecting all your E_mail and Sarah’s ones throught your Journey

It’s beautiful !!
God bless you and Sara
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

In a message dated 12/4/04 3:01:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Wow,the feeling of being off the Doné’ is wonderfully freeing.
I am Free
I am Free
I am Free
And it is wonderful!


                           With love Jasen 🙂
Jasen Jeff here in NYC i am 29 days out of my last dose of methadone and yes yes yes it is aslow crawl back to full strength i am stuck at about 65% of me right now and although not everyday is better every few days sure are
i have been getting about 4-5 hours a night of decnt sleep then i pretend for a while before getting up
Great to have followed your long long journey I hope to do the same sometime…
tell Sara hello from Jeff and Rachel
hang tough brtother
Jeff

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams
Date: December 5, 2004 at 12:04:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Collective conscience, yep. It also has to do with the development of the relationship between plant spirit and human spirit. What I sensed from Iboga is that Humans have been ingesting it for centuries and centuries and a vast amount of experience has developed between plant and man over the years… the incremental building of the holodeck if you will. its like the root of knowledge, its database expanding exponentially with each interaction.  Also of course Ayahuasca, Psilocibin, et al – McKenna talked about this stuff, psychedelics playing a vital role in the development of man; socially, mentally,  linguisticly [sic] and spiritually on a collective-conscience level.

another description is that it opens the portal to higher self via the astral self.

_.dh

On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 02:56 PM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Hey list, I was wondering about this dream thing the other day. I’ve observed that there are a whole lot of parallels in the Ibogaine experience. I think everyone sees something purple and some kind of vision of the world around us. Does this have something to do with collective conciseness and collective knowledge, i.e. every generation gets more intelligent than the last because of the collective knowledge of the world is embedded in their brain and it changes them genetically? Or is Patrick secretly guiding our visions because he put a spell on us through his computer? (jOKe, insert canned laugh here) I can’t imagine not being able to dream. That would mean that I would never have had a wet dream. That would suck. I had the most beautimus one pre Ibogaine where………… better not go there.        Randy

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 4, 2004 at 11:56:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t worry Hannah, I mean for feks sake, if the Shite don’t get ya, the
She-ites may.
Did I get that right? Are the she-ites the ones we’re all  meant to be mad
at or summink. I’m jest a backward country gal here….
We had a band here called Shihad.  Had to change their name.
Anyway,
Must away get them thar coos in the shed.
Farmer Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Hannah Clay [mailto:hannah.clay@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 2:45 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional
rudeness

Crap!  😉  I never knew this!  I use it all the time, I’ll be more careful
now.  Thanks for the heads-up.  (And sorry for the bad joke but sometimes I
can’t help myself….

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.<

I too got a friendly note not so long ago calling my attention to this
when
I too wrote “shite” and I thought I’d explained to my friend that it was
in
no way a reference to their religion or ethnicity or them in any way at
all
whatsoever, that it was an extremely common way to say “shit” in Great
Britain. I guess I didn’t make it clear enough if they are still feeling
uncomfortable with that word.
Shite honestly and to goodnessly hasn’t a single thing to do with
Shiites, promise. It never has and never will unless someone is
misspelling
Shiite in their writing but then I imagine it would be pretty obvious that
something wasn’t right, right?
So please, to that person who feels uncomfortable when seeing the word
“shite,” relax, everything is ok, it’s not ever directed at you and your
religious views at all, certainly not in my own case and I imagine never
when shite is used in place of shit- it’s a slang word that isn’t in any
way
related to religion- unless of course one holds a dim view of religions in
general, then it may be used as an adjective I suppose, but …etc.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

Dear list,

I just realized that some of the words I use may be
taken unintentionally.  I am, in no way, racist or
exclusionary, just misinformed.

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.

Please excuse my ignorance…I’m still figuring things
out…

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies
Date: December 4, 2004 at 11:54:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kiwi (NZ) Govt has come to it’s senses and is currently growing Hemp.
Yayyy Kiwis!
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 2:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies

Don’t get me started about hemp. I’m from KY and hemp would save the farmers down there. It is just too logical for the gov. to allow not to mention what it would do for the environment.     Randy

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams
Date: December 4, 2004 at 11:53:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks Randy, for your sensibility in this delicate matter.  I would have hunted you down to punish you for the nightmares otherwise………..
Good on  ya mate!
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Sunday, 5 December 2004 1:56 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams

Hey list, I was wondering about this dream thing the other day. I’ve observed that there are a whole lot of parallels in the Ibogaine experience. I think everyone sees something purple and some kind of vision of the world around us. Does this have something to do with collective conciseness and collective knowledge, i.e. every generation gets more intelligent than the last because of the collective knowledge of the world is embedded in their brain and it changes them genetically? Or is Patrick secretly guiding our visions because he put a spell on us through his computer? (jOKe, insert canned laugh here) I can’t imagine not being able to dream. That would mean that I would never have had a wet dream. That would suck. I had the most beautimus one pre Ibogaine where………… better not go there.        Randy

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine meet
Date: December 4, 2004 at 9:16:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’ve got to to.work. hey, when did junkies afford computers in the old days.  a computer and scoreing. new breed. upscale, ron ,i had a toaster the connection d/n want. bush baby junkies?

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 4, 2004 at 9:13:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes I detoxed off H physically using methadone several times over the years.
I’d just use it for 4 or 5 days.  It wasn’t long enough to get a habit but
did get me through most of my H wd’s-pretty cool.

But…it didn’t do anything for me psychologically and I’d always relapse
soon afterwards-else I wouldn’t be here!

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…

Beatrice,
I think you may indeed have unknowingly done the best thing for
yourself all the way around.  Where many of us, myself included, were
recommended to switch off methedone and back on H prior, I believe with
only
a few days of meth you can actually get past the h withdrawl for the most
part and not yet be really addicted to methedone yet.  What I used to do
to
kick (100’s of times it worked physically but never mentally) was 3 days
of
Methedone, and then stop.  In 3 days the H withdrawl was done and there
was
still an accumulation of Meth in the body to take you through another day
or
two without any withdrawl from either.  I believe the 28 day methedone
detox
protocol is to addict you to it not get you off anything.  Sounds like one
of the biggest scams perpetuated on the public by the drug companys, other
than the cholesterol scam they have going now.  Stopping at 5mgs of
methedone still leaves you with a whole lot of pain.
Beatrice, you have my prayers, support and blessings.  I
wish
all your intentions come to be.                 Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Beatrice Blue” <beatriceblue@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or
otherwise…

Thank you so much, Howard!  From what I’ve heard, I value your opinion.
I
guess I’ll just have to try my best and suffer through it, I suppose.

Martee & Ms. Iboga, also thank you!  I have spoken to my providers that
I’ll
be working with this weekend, who also say no, so I have given up the
Naltrexone idea completely.  From what all involved say, I should not
experience even a tenth of what I did the first time.  And from the
sounds
of it, what I will experience I’ll be able to handle.  I was a heroin
addict
for goodness sake, so lack of energy at least won’t be new.  After all,
I
made a career out of my habit, I can’t expect overnight miracles.  And
I’m
willing to do the necessary work.  Hopefully some of you will be there
for
me if, and when, I need you when I return, and I hope I’ll be able to do
the
same for some of you in the future.

I’ll tell all of you all about my first experience (and my second!) when
I
return, but I’ll leave you with this about my first time around: I was
indeed told to go on Methadone before my treatment, and actually didn’t
do
it immediately when told to weeks beforehand.  Instead I waited until a
few
days beforehand and during travel.  I was told they didn’t feel
comfortable
with me being on something illegal, even though I kept asking which
would
be
better on mind and body regardless of legality.  Eventually I was told
there
would be no difference.  I received no boosters at all, even though I
asked
for some more.  I was given the same initial dosage as everyone else in
my
group, no matter what our habits were, our sex, or our weight.  Almost
the
entire group felt very mislead about several things about the program.
My
‘providers’ were very well respected and have been mentioned extensively
on
this list.  Enough said.  I’m sure you all know who by now, but for
those
of
you who may not have guessed, read my experience diary when I return
after
the 15th, if you’re interested.  I’ll definitely post it!

Take care, and no matter your beliefs, please pray for me Sunday… I
need
all the help I can get!!!!
Beatrice

BTW, I don’t know if this matters or not, but I’m a smoker.  I don’t
shoot
or sniff, I smoke, and for 8-10 years I always have.

On 12/2/04 2:40 PM, “HSLotsof@aol.com” <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 12/2/04 1:59:29 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

<< Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with
those

of you that are interested both my first experience and then this
second.

My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7

days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my
body

out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help,
and

after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5
hours
the

most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I
could

sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! >>

If you are feeling bad naltrexone will make you feel worse.  I would be
very
skeptical about doing naltrexone less then 14 days post ibogaine.

Howard

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Test
Date: December 4, 2004 at 8:51:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you’re tested on my end. like cb’s in the 70’s.ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Test

Test        tEst                   Check         Crack              cruckst

From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 4, 2004 at 8:45:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Crap!  😉  I never knew this!  I use it all the time, I’ll be more careful
now.  Thanks for the heads-up.  (And sorry for the bad joke but sometimes I
can’t help myself….

Love Hannah

—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 6:34 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.<

I too got a friendly note not so long ago calling my attention to this
when
I too wrote “shite” and I thought I’d explained to my friend that it was
in
no way a reference to their religion or ethnicity or them in any way at
all
whatsoever, that it was an extremely common way to say “shit” in Great
Britain. I guess I didn’t make it clear enough if they are still feeling
uncomfortable with that word.
Shite honestly and to goodnessly hasn’t a single thing to do with
Shiites, promise. It never has and never will unless someone is
misspelling
Shiite in their writing but then I imagine it would be pretty obvious that
something wasn’t right, right?
So please, to that person who feels uncomfortable when seeing the word
“shite,” relax, everything is ok, it’s not ever directed at you and your
religious views at all, certainly not in my own case and I imagine never
when shite is used in place of shit- it’s a slang word that isn’t in any
way
related to religion- unless of course one holds a dim view of religions in
general, then it may be used as an adjective I suppose, but …etc.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

Dear list,

I just realized that some of the words I use may be
taken unintentionally.  I am, in no way, racist or
exclusionary, just misinformed.

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.

Please excuse my ignorance…I’m still figuring things
out…

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies
Date: December 4, 2004 at 8:00:19 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t get me started about hemp. I’m from KY and hemp would save the farmers down there. It is just too logical for the gov. to allow not to mention what it would do for the environment.     Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams
Date: December 4, 2004 at 7:56:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey list, I was wondering about this dream thing the other day. I’ve observed that there are a whole lot of parallels in the Ibogaine experience. I think everyone sees something purple and some kind of vision of the world around us. Does this have something to do with collective conciseness and collective knowledge, i.e. every generation gets more intelligent than the last because of the collective knowledge of the world is embedded in their brain and it changes them genetically? Or is Patrick secretly guiding our visions because he put a spell on us through his computer? (jOKe, insert canned laugh here) I can’t imagine not being able to dream. That would mean that I would never have had a wet dream. That would suck. I had the most beautimus one pre Ibogaine where………… better not go there.        Randy

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies
Date: December 4, 2004 at 7:43:01 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This president should read : ” the war of the Jews” writted by Josephus  (
AD 66-73 )

same shite or shit ?/!
war beetween the syrians, the Egyptians, the jews, and so on… and so
on….
.
Nothing new under the sun

To bad he never had time to read  as he said.
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies

George Bush is an arrogant little fuck, ain’t he?

Without control of the middle east oil fields, the US economy would
crumble. We have the technology to develop sustainable energy on a
global scale, but now that the politicians and lobbyists [for the
fossil fuel giants] are one and the same… it looks bleak indeed. We
could be leaders of a bright and beautiful future of sustainability but
instead the reptillian brain dominates. I feel sad for what my daughter
will face.

Hemp alone could solve many of our problems, from deforestation
(sustainable pulp/fiber products) to biodiesel, and of course for
medicinal purposes. :^)

one of my iboga visions was a gigantic syringe extracting tar from the
earth, and then being injected back into the multitudes.

I just realized now it wasn’t tar (heroin) at all, but oil.

we are seriously thinking of going off-grid, or as much as possible,
for I realize I too, am an oil junkie.

Harm Reduction for the planet!

Time to put the solar panels back on the white house [and our own
houses]!

another thought… the oil giants should be funding this horrible war,
not us tax payers!

meanwhile…

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/——–> it’s a beautiful day out
here in the pacific.

_.DH

On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 11:24 AM, <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

A man who just partied when he had a chance to go to war is buying
generations of grief for countless others, believing that God is
telling him what to do and unable to consider other viewpoints.

Coincidentally it serves the business interests of his class for
the US to destroy the society of the country with the second-
biggest supply of oil on earth, just when humanity is halfway
through the earth’s total oil supply and demand will be exceeding
what is available from here on (so the value of all oil will be
increasing over the life of this reservoir).

Odd that the 9/11 folks came from Saudi Arabia, which has the
biggest oil supply, and that the Bush family has long ties to the
Saudis, who for example financed the current president’s early
failed business.

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] bl!p
Date: December 4, 2004 at 7:22:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Dec 4, 2004, at 4:32 PM, Sara Glatt wrote:

Patrick , are you okay there?

Sara

Hullo Sara, and yes, very much so.  Thanks for askin’ though!

And yeah, that wuz just a TesT to make sure everything was working.

z00m,

Patrick

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I am free free
Date: December 4, 2004 at 7:22:33 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Man , I am so happy for you !!

I have been collecting all your E_mail and Sarah’s ones throught your Journey

It’s beautiful !!
God bless you and Sara
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

In a message dated 12/4/04 3:01:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Wow,the feeling of being off the Doné’ is wonderfully freeing.
I am Free
I am Free
I am Free
And it is wonderful!

With love Jasen 🙂
Jasen Jeff here in NYC i am 29 days out of my last dose of methadone and yes yes yes it is aslow crawl back to full strength i am stuck at about 65% of me right now and although not everyday is better every few days sure are
i have been getting about 4-5 hours a night of decnt sleep then i pretend for a while before getting up
Great to have followed your long long journey I hope to do the same sometime…
tell Sara hello from Jeff and Rachel
hang tough brtother
Jeff

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] ibogaine meet
Date: December 4, 2004 at 7:10:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve been looking for a reason to go to NYC. I’d do it.        Randy

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Quotable Quotes
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:55:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Lee that quote sums up how I feel and I’m an American. Who vocted for
this guy and what’s happening to us?

You are going to start Faith back up you know that of course Lee 😉

.:vector:.

— Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

Dear List,

Sorry for getting anyones back up with this but it really struck me
as
scary:

Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not
vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s
in
the White House because God put him there for a time such as this: Lt
Gen William Boykin, speaking of G. W. Bush, New York Times, 17
October
2003

God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and
unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany.
Hermann
Goering, speaking of Hitler

Taken from: Information Clearing House.
An alternative independent non-commercial source for news,
information
and insight.
PLEASE  ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO SUBSCRIBE
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/subscribe.htm
There is no point I guess in trying to convert anyone. As a wise
friend
of mine once said, an opinion changed by force is no change at all.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media
available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bl!p
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:50:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think he’s testing the lists that’s the only time I ever see him post
from wiretap, Mindvox and the 50 web sites hanging on it all were
offline last night. Had a fun night changing everything again guys? 🙂

Or maybe he’s gone crazier Sara and you should dose Patrick another 25
times 😉 See if you can make him levitate for real 🙂

Patrick, love you dog whenever this place goes away for even a few
hours it reminds me how much I take for granted. Thank you for real 🙂

Give me an email account already! I’ve been asking for 4 years, even
Dana Beal has o phantom.com account! Please?

.:vector:.

— Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:

Patrick , are you okay there?

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@wiretap.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 22:17
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] bl!p

Dot –> .

Patrick

MindVox Transcendental Enlightenment Temple / Heroin Maintenance
Clinic

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] FakePlacebo, Ayahuasca & Drug Addiction
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:50:43 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

YES!
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 15:57
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] FakePlacebo, Ayahuasca & Drug Addiction

Dear FakePlacebo,

I read in another post that ayahuasca was the reason why someone relapsed onto their drug habit after undergoing an inbogaine treatment.

Can recovering addicts take it or not?

Anyone have a firm answer on that?

Thanks

Lee

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
> But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I 
tried it and
>Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view 
to meaning
>of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t 
know if
>it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca 
in?

>One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of 
mind state to
>stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough 
good I
>think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than 
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than 
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to 
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini 
reflects this.





Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:46:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would like to know how much of the stuff I saw was regurgitated up from things I’ve seen before or if any of it was introduced from a source outside my brain (impossible most people would say, but who the hell knows?)<

What with all the movies and other things I’ve been seeing lately that remind me vividly of my own ibo visions, I have been wondering the same thing as of late. Thanks for atriculating this on-list. It’s very hard to know exactly how much of what I saw was brought up and influenced by stuff I see in my day to day life, whether boobtube, film, the streets, etc. Because it’s for sure that even stuff I’m reading is now making me go, “hey, that’s exactly like my ibo ‘dream’,” again and again.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: thethird@myway.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 4:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams

I just listened to an old (not sure the exact date) Art Bell Coast to Coast with Terence McKenna and he stated that 1 out of 20 people who were given DMT in a test situation did not respond at all. He brought this up after Art asked him what he thought about people who swear they don’t dream. I believe the accepted answer to whether or not everyone dreams is that everyone has to dream, but some don’t remember it. But Mr. McKenna said he wasn’t sure about that and brought up the 1 out of 20 who don’t respond to DMT, and said something akin to dreaming being something that mammals evolved into having the capability for and that some people just don’t have that capability. Is this possible? Is it possible that some people experience the parts of REM that keep their brain healthy without any of the visuals/feelings of dreams? Also, I remember hearing that there are some people who don’t see visuals on Ibogaine, but after taking it I can’t comprehend that. The visuals were s! o intense that I can’t imagine being immune to them. Maybe the reason that some people don’t see visions during Ibogaine sessions is the same reason a few people don’t see anything on DMT, and possibly it is tied to the part of the brain that experiences dreams during sleep. How much do we really know about dreams? It’s a pretty fascinating subject don’t you think? Any dream experts out there who can clue me in? I always figured that the reason I couldn’t sleep after Ibogaine is that my brain was all dreamed out and needed a break, or that I had gotten so much of whatever it is that we get from dreaming, that I just didn’t need it for awhile. Also, and please don’t think I’m a jerk for asking this, but do any of you know of any people who are blind and have also taken Ibogaine? If it is just their eyes that are damaged and not the part of the brain that receives visions then wouldn’t they still see colors or other things? I think it would be interesting to know the descript! ion of what they saw. I would like to know how much of the stuff I saw was regurgitated up from things I’ve seen before or if any of it was introduced from a source outside my brain (impossible most people would say, but who the hell knows?)

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:43:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.ibogaine.org/initiate.html

i suppose i’d also look a little spooked if some one used a flash camera on me in the middle of my “trip”.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Oil Junkies
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:41:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

George Bush is an arrogant little fuck, ain’t he?

Without control of the middle east oil fields, the US economy would crumble. We have the technology to develop sustainable energy on a global scale, but now that the politicians and lobbyists [for the fossil fuel giants] are one and the same… it looks bleak indeed. We could be leaders of a bright and beautiful future of sustainability but instead the reptillian brain dominates. I feel sad for what my daughter will face.

Hemp alone could solve many of our problems, from deforestation (sustainable pulp/fiber products) to biodiesel, and of course for medicinal purposes. :^)

one of my iboga visions was a gigantic syringe extracting tar from the earth, and then being injected back into the multitudes.

I just realized now it wasn’t tar (heroin) at all, but oil.

we are seriously thinking of going off-grid, or as much as possible, for I realize I too, am an oil junkie.

Harm Reduction for the planet!

Time to put the solar panels back on the white house [and our own houses]!

another thought… the oil giants should be funding this horrible war, not us tax payers!

meanwhile…

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/——–> it’s a beautiful day out here in the pacific.

_.DH

On Saturday, December 4, 2004, at 11:24 AM, <slowone@hush.ai> wrote:

A man who just partied when he had a chance to go to war is buying
generations of grief for countless others, believing that God is
telling him what to do and unable to consider other viewpoints.

Coincidentally it serves the business interests of his class for
the US to destroy the society of the country with the second-
biggest supply of oil on earth, just when humanity is halfway
through the earth’s total oil supply and demand will be exceeding
what is available from here on (so the value of all oil will be
increasing over the life of this reservoir).

Odd that the 9/11 folks came from Saudi Arabia, which has the
biggest oil supply, and that the Bush family has long ties to the
Saudis, who for example financed the current president’s early
failed business.

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] bl!p
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:32:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick , are you okay there?

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Patrick K. Kroupa [mailto:digital@wiretap.com]
Verzonden: zaterdag 4 december 2004 22:17
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: [Ibogaine] bl!p

Dot –> .

Patrick

MindVox Transcendental Enlightenment Temple / Heroin Maintenance Clinic

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Quotable Quotes
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:24:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A man who just partied when he had a chance to go to war is buying
generations of grief for countless others, believing that God is
telling him what to do and unable to consider other viewpoints.

Coincidentally it serves the business interests of his class for
the US to destroy the society of the country with the second-
biggest supply of oil on earth, just when humanity is halfway
through the earth’s total oil supply and demand will be exceeding
what is available from here on (so the value of all oil will be
increasing over the life of this reservoir).

Odd that the 9/11 folks came from Saudi Arabia, which has the
biggest oil supply, and that the Bush family has long ties to the
Saudis, who for example financed the current president’s early
failed business.

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 06:44:44 -0800 Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Dear List,

Sorry for getting anyones back up with this but it really struck
me as scary:

Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did
not
vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that
he’s in
the White House because God put him there for a time such as this:

Lt
Gen William Boykin, speaking of G. W. Bush, New York Times, 17
October
2003

God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and
unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany.
Hermann
Goering, speaking of Hitler

Taken from: Information Clearing House.
An alternative independent non-commercial source for news,
information and insight.
PLEASE  ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO SUBSCRIBE
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/subscribe.htm

There is no point I guess in trying to convert anyone. As a wise
friend of mine once said, an opinion changed by force is no change

at all.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

———————————
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bl1p
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:16:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

. <– doT

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@wiretap.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] bl!p
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:16:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dot –> .

Patrick

MindVox Transcendental Enlightenment Temple / Heroin Maintenance Clinic

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:11:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s a Museum of Tropical Art or some such that is pretty
amazing, lots of interesting cultural stuff. Plus the Van Gough is
stunning – and small enough to handle if you’re low on energy.

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:02:30 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
wrote:
You sound so much better, Jasen…glad to hear it.  I
was thinking of you recently, wondering how it was
going for you.

Are you planning to travel at all?  How are the
Netherlands?  I’m so jealous you’re there right now,
and I hope you’ll test the fruits of the Cannabis Cup
for me.

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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——-=[/

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:02:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You sound so much better, Jasen…glad to hear it.  I
was thinking of you recently, wondering how it was
going for you.

Are you planning to travel at all?  How are the
Netherlands?  I’m so jealous you’re there right now,
and I hope you’ll test the fruits of the Cannabis Cup
for me.

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:00:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Come on, only Geordies say “shite.” Cockneys say
“shit” like everyone else.

Actually, I have heard people from all over the UK use
this term, and also Aussies and a few Kiwis…a group
of dudes from Ireland I met while travelling also use
this word.  It’s usage seems to be euphemistic and
jocular.

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 4, 2004 at 3:45:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/4/04 3:01:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:
Wow,the feeling of being off the Doné’ is wonderfully freeing.
I am Free
I am Free
I am Free
And it is wonderful!

With love Jasen 🙂
Jasen Jeff here in NYC i am 29 days out of my last dose of methadone and yes yes yes it is aslow crawl back to full strength i am stuck at about 65% of me right now and although not everyday is better every few days sure are
i have been getting about 4-5 hours a night of decnt sleep then i pretend for a while before getting up
Great to have followed your long long journey I hope to do the same sometime…
tell Sara hello from Jeff and Rachel
hang tough brtother
Jeff

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] [Off Topic] Quotable Quotes
Date: December 4, 2004 at 9:44:44 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

Sorry for getting anyones back up with this but it really struck me as scary:

Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not
vote for him. Why is he there? And I tell you this morning that he’s in
the White House because God put him there for a time such as this: Lt
Gen William Boykin, speaking of G. W. Bush, New York Times, 17 October
2003

God gave the savior to the German people. We have faith, deep and
unshakeable faith, that he was sent to us by God to save Germany. Hermann
Goering, speaking of Hitler

Taken from: Information Clearing House.
An alternative independent non-commercial source for news, information and insight.
PLEASE  ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO SUBSCRIBE
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/subscribe.htm
There is no point I guess in trying to convert anyone. As a wise friend of mine once said, an opinion changed by force is no change at all.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 4, 2004 at 12:49:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

About post-ibogaine and sleep generally, something I’ve observed is that
sleep deprivation will replicate some of ibogaine’s “de-traumatizing”
effects. If you’re familiar with the history of addiction treatment you may
know about Synanon, Phoenix House and similar concepts that would frequently
use a program designed to keep recovering addicts up all night to allow
trauma to surface. The sessions were known as “marathons” and they would
usually go on for days or even weeks! These days the benefits of sleep
deprivation (often coupled with some body movement exercises) in therapy are
pretty well recognized, I’d say. When you don’t get that nice layer of sleep
to cover over feelings up they come. Some people will even tell you that the
body actually doesn’t need any sleep at all, it’s just the mind trying to
keep feeling stable and in control.

From a more ethnic viewpoint, during the three “nights of Ngoze” that
comprise one of the Bwiti initiation rituals practiced in the Cameroun you
can expect bugger all sleep for sure. They dance all night and chill out all
day, though not if you’re actually an initiate, when you usually can’t move
very much for all the iboga consumed.

Yes, like slowone is saying below, that you get pissed off and irritable
after ibogaine because of the lack of sleep is for sure showing you that
there’s still a lot of feelings waiting to come out. Of course you can try
and anaesthetize yourself with valerian or St John’s Wort or you can make
more use of the space and look at it.

with love

Nick

—–Original Message—–
From: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Sent: 02 December 2004 16:23
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

5-HTP (a seratonin precursor) and melatonin have been recommended
for sleep post-ibo. Also herbs like chamomile, valerian, and
others.

If you can do something like yoga, it may help with sleep and
irritability. Therapy is always recommended, since emotional issues
are brought out by ibogaine, and these can manifest as a variety of
discomforts. It may sound odd, but sometimes people can get
feelings out (and some relief) by screaming into a pillow – perhaps
to ask the eboga spirit for more help or to call on one’s
ancestors. Or just to complain 🙂

The main thing is to explore as much emotional discomfort as one
can without getting overwhelmed. As the new territory becomes
familiar, a new richness comes into one’s life to replace old
emotional habits. I find it to be very slow but rewarding work.
Sometimes discomfort seems to be designed expressly to avoid having
good feelings that were not reliably obtainable in childhood, other
times it might be anger turned inward.

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:28:49 -0800 FakePlacebo
<fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Julie,

Totaly agreed with you. I feel almost same way with you. What a
coinidence I
hate all kind of religion dogma but here in Turkey Muslim
propoganda comes
to my office by the some fool and ignorant “friends”. After Iboga
I said to
them fuck off….I become very rude one.

I’m not filtering and depressing my feelings anymore. But there is

something
different then you I did not experienced weakness as you did.
After 8 days I
started to feel that I can go to work. 11. days started to work.
But there
is still little pains on my muscles. Insomnia still affects me
very bad way.
I’m watching billions of movie, cable and satelite Tv, DVD etc…
every
night I’m awake untill 4:00 AM. I’m using some benzodiazepin pills

for
sleeping it works but next day I feel like a fool. This kind of
drugs lasts
for hours. Sometimes joint could make me avaible for sleepin but
sometimes.

I have to find a way to sleep because this Insomnia issue drive me

crazy.
Last to days I slept totaly 2,5 hours at all.
Please keep on write to me because I need to know that I’m not the

only one
to feel like as I’m real.

Thank you for what you shared with me
Bets Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie)

Hi FP,

Hi, How are you?  In short, I feel great.  Still
haven’t touched any opiates, and have no real desire
to do so.  However, I believe that is due only in part
to the noribogaine that may or may not be floating
around my system- I really wanted to quit.  My
body/mind was tired, dare I say DISGUSTED, by the
whole scene, and I believe this realization is making
opiate abstinence quite easy right now.

I had energy/fatigue problems for the first 2-3 weeks,
but my body has since normalized, and I feel pretty
good overall.  Sleep issues are a whole different
story altogether- I STILL have sleep disturbances.  My
doc told me it can take months to normalize (something
about opiates acting on the area of the brain that
regulates sleep.

In terms of personality changes, I feel a lot more,
um, RAW- nothing is filtered out anymore.  Every
beautiful situation, every annoying and ugly one- I
embrace each and every moment with the naivete of a 5
year old.

I would say I also stick up for myself more now,
without the aid of rose-tinted, opiated glasses.  I
have an aunt who used to send me the most ridiculous,
right-wing, Christian fundamentalist propaganda,
almost on a daily basis.  It annoyed the fuck out of
me.  Well, needless to say, I critically ‘dissected’
the last piece of clap-trap, and LO AND BEHOLD: no
more Christian, exclusionist dogma forwarded to my
Inbox.

As with other methods of detox, TIME is the only way
to truly recover…don’t worry, Fake Placebo: if your
TIME hasn’t come yet, it will soon…

cheers,
Julie

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 4, 2004 at 7:45:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok I admit that this is interesting. Thank you for
posting that link, I’m having a good time drinking
coffee and looking at the paintings. I myself have a
hard time trying to accept all of the negative is me
and want to push it off as something else that maybe I
can get rid of. I do however to be honest have the
feeling that you and Patrick are right. Any art I look
at which is how do I say it real, always has what you
mention. Not sure what all to say but I’m thinking
about all of this, so thank you for that.

Carla B

— Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar> wrote:

http://www.pabloamaringo.com/

paintings of ayahuasca sessions.

[there is a pot at the bottom of many of the
paintings,
this is the pot with the brew. The guy whoŽs in all
the paintings (sometimes more than once) is P.
Amaringo.]
dark and light, dancing above.
Coexistence, seems the only way to acceptation.

gdc.

—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:16 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities
& addiction

Please discard if not interested

“The refusal of modern ” enlightenment ” to treat
” possession as a hypotesis to be spoken of as even
posssible, in spite of the massive human tradition
based on concrete experience in it’s favor, has
always seemed to me a curious example of fashion in
thing scientific.
That the demon-theory will have its inning again
is to my mind absolutely certain.
One has to be ” scientific” indeed to be blind
and ignorant enought to suspect no such possibility

William James considered by
many as the father of American Psycology

For the one willing to investigate a little bit
further, you could start with:

Healing States
A Journey Into The World Of Spiritual Healing and
Shamanism
by Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. and Stanley Krippner,
Ph.D
http://www.thefourwinds.com/Articles/bkEx_HS.html

The life and studies of Dr.Wickland
http://www.harvestfields.ca/ebook/01/063/00.htm

Ibogaine could be a door to another dimension.
It’s interesting to find that the bwiti religion has
12 different branch
one is Ombwiri a society reserved only to women
using Iboga and spirits helpers in public healing
and spirit removal.The worst one is Bwiti N’Dea
sect of sorcerer using human sacrifices and
cannibalism for the obtention of supernatural
powers.

God bless
francis

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee
Date: December 4, 2004 at 5:39:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Martee

What I observed with myself is how these entities would continously circle my body looking for points of weakness to exploit. Once my psyche in anyway went negative or vulnerable from the effect of a particular issue, they would slip and slid into my head and various parts of my body as if seeking with all their will to undermine my state of mind at any point.

Towards the end I saw them stand around me and slowly they reduce in number until the last one simply melted away. I became pretty much impervious to them.

I guess they gave up their mission to destroy mankind?

I imagine they enjoy TV!

Lee

“m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net> wrote:
Julie,
I agree on both of your messages, however I believe you missed my point.
Re: what you just stated, and I may have said this before, But I believe
it is completly possible for your average person (especially in american
society or maybe it is wherever big business dominates) to live their entire
life without ever having an ORIGINAl thought or want because they are so
influenced by the media, advertising, fads, keeping up with the jones and
trying to maintain or one up others by having and doing what they think puts
their status up. It’s all STUFF ! Having, being , aquiring, mostly showing
off their stuff!
I personally involve myself as little as possible with this “type” and
when I have to the subject is never their stuff. Now I believe this is a
type of possession!!!!
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee

> Dear Martee,
>
> I also want to clarify another point- I am in no way
> categorizing or lumping all women together…maybe
> it’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(and
> boys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousy
> rather than love, compassion and understanding. It
> doesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fed
> intellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainment
> industry and other dubious individuals, who are
> primarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthy
> lucre.
>
> No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong and
> insightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…
>
> Julie
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Trioculus- Dave
Date: December 3, 2004 at 7:41:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, Trioculus is not my creation…it was sent to me
by a friend, who received it after unsubscribing from
a Yahoo group (forget which one).

he’s a eerie little imp, isn’t he?

J.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 8:23:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee !

I ve seen the documentary on Salem too. But in my case it was possession
infortunately. Think about why should we  discard the idea of entities
possession ?

“An exceptional knowledge of such incantations for the overcoming of demons
was attributed to King Solomon. ‘Many spirits and demons did Solomon
vanquish’ (Exod. R xxx. 16), although the power deserted him later in life
because, as it is said, ‘Until Solomon sinned he ruled over the demons’
(Pesikta 45b).'”

The  Talmud too is full of references to exorcisme.
In the East :
The mother of Buddha : Mahamaya o maya was an exorcist.In the Grec mythology
Maia was the grandmother of Magic.
In the  Veda you will find the Atharva veda  with several charm, hymn for
cures and depossession.
In the teaching of Zarathustra Ahriman is thougth to be the first
personification of the ” devil ”
In the Taoist I-Ching you will find references to demon too. I grow up in
Africa and I’ve seen real bad possession and I never found one tribe who
will deny the existence of evil. Same win South America with the ” Limpia ”
from The Santeria.Voddoo for the Caribe. Cuban Santeros and on and on..
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Francis,
I would like to think it is more accepting of a positive power that
would be responsible for that kind of a change.  Not to doubt what you
have
seen and experienced, but I have a hard time totally excepting the
possession thing. Is it possible there can be a physical concrete reason
for
these things.  I saw a documentary years ago on PBS that detected during
the
time of the Salem witch hunts and trials the grains(I believe they were
rye)
had been molded and infested with fungus.  Ingesting certain types of
these
things can affect the brain and behavior.  I’ve seen how very many of my
clients have candida(fungus) systemically in their system and beside a
host
of physical issues it also leads to mind fog and depression.
Although truth be told I do have my own black ashen snake leaving my
body during my session that my host (very inutitive & somewhat psychic
abilities) saw and the demon energy that remained after I left that he
sent
down the hall to the drug dealers house story!
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
legion… ” 🙂

“I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.

Julie (unintentional Bible scholar)  🙂

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From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] McKenna and those who don’t see dreams
Date: December 3, 2004 at 4:58:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just listened to an old (not sure the exact date) Art Bell Coast to Coast with Terence McKenna and he stated that 1 out of 20 people who were given DMT in a test situation did not respond at all. He brought this up after Art asked him what he thought about people who swear they don’t dream. I believe the accepted answer to whether or not everyone dreams is that everyone has to dream, but some don’t remember it. But Mr. McKenna said he wasn’t sure about that and brought up the 1 out of 20 who don’t respond to DMT, and said something akin to dreaming being something that mammals evolved into having the capability for and that some people just don’t have that capability. Is this possible? Is it possible that some people experience the parts of REM that keep their brain healthy without any of the visuals/feelings of dreams? Also, I remember hearing that there are some people who don’t see visuals on Ibogaine, but after taking it I can’t comprehend that. The visuals were so intense that I can’t imagine being immune to them. Maybe the reason that some people don’t see visions during Ibogaine sessions is the same reason a few people don’t see anything on DMT, and possibly it is tied to the part of the brain that experiences dreams during sleep. How much do we really know about dreams? It’s a pretty fascinating subject don’t you think? Any dream experts out there who can clue me in? I always figured that the reason I couldn’t sleep after Ibogaine is that my brain was all dreamed out and needed a break, or that I had gotten so much of whatever it is that we get from dreaming, that I just didn’t need it for awhile. Also, and please don’t think I’m a jerk for asking this, but do any of you know of any people who are blind and have also taken Ibogaine? If it is just their eyes that are damaged and not the part of the brain that receives visions then wouldn’t they still see colors or other things? I think it would be interesting to know the description of what they saw. I would like to know how much of the stuff I saw was regurgitated up from things I’ve seen before or if any of it was introduced from a source outside my brain (impossible most people would say, but who the hell knows?)

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] ibogaine meet
Date: December 3, 2004 at 5:05:26 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just curious how many would be willing to meet up and talk about ibogaine. I think I read some other email where they talked about getting together in NYC and thought it would be cool to have an ibo meeting. I agree and wondered if anybody else thought the same thing. It’s always nice to meet others who are on the same wave-length. Just a thought.

No banners. No pop-ups. No kidding.
Make My Way your home on the Web – http://www.myway.com

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list
Date: December 4, 2004 at 12:07:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.ibogaine.org/initiate.html

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:02:02 -0800 D H <dave@phantom.com> wrote:
take some Ibogaine, you will achieve this.

On Friday, December 3, 2004, at 07:27 AM, Ms Iboga wrote:

LOL, OK here goes: “I wish to transcend my physical
body, and soar through the universe in astral form.”

Hello??  Hello, God…can you hear me????

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From: “Brad Fisher” <brad.fisher@guaranty.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 3, 2004 at 6:11:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beatrice, I too have had very similiar experiances with Naltreaxone, be very careful.
bf
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FakePlacebo, Ayahuasca & Drug Addiction
Date: December 4, 2004 at 9:56:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear FakePlacebo,

I read in another post that ayahuasca was the reason why someone relapsed onto their drug habit after undergoing an inbogaine treatment.

Can recovering addicts take it or not?

Anyone have a firm answer on that?

Thanks

Lee

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
> But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
>Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
>of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
>it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

>One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
>stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
>think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 4, 2004 at 12:56:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 02 December 2004 16:57
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

Dear list,

I just realized that some of the words I use may be
taken unintentionally.  I am, in no way, racist or
exclusionary, just misinformed.

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.

Come on, only Geordies say “shite.” Cockneys say “shit” like everyone else.
Nick

Please excuse my ignorance…I’m still figuring things
out…

cheers,
Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie
Date: December 4, 2004 at 11:01:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

I noticed it first in high school, but university is
where I got the first real taste of it.  I’m 27 now,
and the general trend persists.  I believe it might be
the way some women get violence out of their systems:
because many girls might not resort to punching
someone in the head, they instead punch for the
soul…Words/comments can be devastating to someone
who is a bit insecure, self-conscious.

I have managed to regulate the amount of negativity I
experience by carefully selecting who I spend my time
with.  I used to spend my time in a variety of social
scenes, but got tired of the psychic/emotional
vampires (men AND women) who would try to drain me or
smash my ego to shreds.  Soulless nightclubs and other
such venues are a killer- people behaving badly with
alcohol thrown into the mix; it’s a recipe for
disaster(for me, at least).

Negative behaviour, as well as stupidity, are
perpetuated by the media and the entertainment
industries.  Problem is, many people don’t have the
skills to critically dissect the information they are
being inundated by, and take what they see on TV or
film or videos as the God-given truth…

It’s frightening, isn’t it….???

Julie

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To German DC
Date: December 4, 2004 at 12:43:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear German DC,
Thanks for this. Many of the paintings are very interesting. I still curious about healing with water; but there is no source on net in my language.

Best Regards
FakePLaceo
—– Original Message —–
From: Germán DC
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction

http://www.pabloamaringo.com/

paintings of ayahuasca sessions.

[there is a pot at the bottom of many of the paintings,
this is the pot with the brew. The guy who´s in all the paintings (sometimes more than once) is P. Amaringo.]
dark and light, dancing above.
Coexistence, seems the only way to acceptation.
gdc.

—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:16 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction

Please discard if not interested

“The refusal of modern ” enlightenment ” to treat ” possession as a hypotesis to be spoken of as even posssible, in spite of the massive human tradition based on concrete experience in it’s favor, has always seemed to me a curious example of fashion in thing scientific.
That the demon-theory will have its inning again is to my mind absolutely certain.
One has to be ” scientific” indeed to be blind and ignorant enought to suspect no such possibility ”
William James considered by many as the father of American Psycology

For the one willing to investigate a little bit further, you could start with:

Healing States
A Journey Into The World Of Spiritual Healing and Shamanism
by Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. and Stanley Krippner, Ph.D
http://www.thefourwinds.com/Articles/bkEx_HS.html

The life and studies of Dr.Wickland
http://www.harvestfields.ca/ebook/01/063/00.htm

Ibogaine could be a door to another dimension. It’s interesting to find that the bwiti religion has 12 different branch
one is Ombwiri a society reserved only to women using Iboga and spirits helpers in public healing and spirit removal.The worst one is Bwiti N’Dea  sect of sorcerer using human sacrifices and cannibalism for the obtention of supernatural powers.

God bless
francis

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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: “mark connors” <darkmattersfo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OFF TOPIC dark entities & addiction- Julie
Date: December 4, 2004 at 9:33:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What about the catty trait in gay men. As a gay man, i’m very catty. Perhpas cattines is a coping mechanism in a testosteron (sp?) dominated world.

Men do let jealous feelings rule them, both gay and straight. Perhaps the expression is different, but consider the many murders done by jealous husbands and boyfriends.

Vanity, greed, etc. have been with us as a species for a long time. I think they are socially induced and not a personal fault per se.

From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie
Date: Fri,  3 Dec 2004 15:29:49 -0500 (EST)

hey Julie,,Do you think that this catty trait in women is genetic at all. I just know that I never noticed it in women until I started getting older. I know young girls can be vicious to each other and get jealous of each other but it seems worse when they get older, so it seems more of a learned behavior. Maybe it’s because they see how society treats women who are better looking (men pay more attention to them, etc..). I also don’t understand why men aren’t as bad when they talk to other men. They of course have jealous feelings but they don’t seem to let them rule how they act. It is so rare to find a good female friend because even some of the most beautiful and secure women let the conniving jealous side of them come out when they feel threatened by other women. It’d be nice to know how to keep our daughters from becoming like that. — On Fri 12/03, Ms Iboga &lt; ms_iboga@yahoo.com &gt; wrote:From: Ms Iboga [mailto: ms_iboga@yahoo.com]To: ibogaine@mindvox.comDate: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:01:46 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities &amp; addiction- MarteeDear Martee,I also want to clarify another point- I am in no waycategorizing or lumping all women together…maybeit’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(andboys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousyrather than love, compassion and understanding. Itdoesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fedintellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainmentindustry and other dubious individuals, who areprimarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthylucre.No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong andinsightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…Julie__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com /]=———————————————————————=[[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]]=———————————————————————=[/

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 4, 2004 at 9:56:41 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,Hey guys,

Ahhhh,well this is day,….18,   gee,… took a while to work that out.
Still mentally exausted,though better.Actually still exhausted all round,
But a bit better every day.Music is great,I too,am rediscovering music.
My body is slowly coming back to life.

Considering the gift of awareness and now being off the Done’
The lack of energy is nothing in comparison,even though it is a big deal.
Comparing to what I am receiving these residuals are nothing.

Half my soul was out of my body and half inside whilst on the
done,everything was harder whilst on the Done’going against the grain.
Now I feel like the other half of my soul wants to move back in,now that
My body is clean(my temple),I will have my whole soul back. I feel like
I am now twice as capable as before,……and I’m excited,hey beautiful
world are you prepared for Jasen.

Things seem so clear and easy now. So much more is possible,I can still be
and do whatever my heart desires,the things I can now accomplish seem so
simple to attain.Just a matter of thought ,word and action.It’s almost
systematic,actually that is exactly what it is.The system is now simple
I am being tuned in.

A lot of emotional blockages being released. Exausted crying,good stuff.
When I cry,it is a tired deep cry,old bottled up emotions being slowly
released like steam from a pressure cooker.Feels good afterwards.

Getting massages,have had 4 so far,Magic,….the guy is sooooo good,normally
I would prefer a female but in this case the guy was like Jesus himself
massing me and healing me,best ever in my life,and I have been massaged
hundreds if not thousands of times,he is the best.

Still feel light headed,not so much as before however still there.A little
Dissiness still. Feels like I have been taking clonadine or another type of
Medication that lowers your bloodpressure. I feel though that this low blood
pressure is a part of the healing and if we take medication to offset it
,well then we Might be offsetting the value of the low blood pressure.
Just a thought.

I tell you what the Cannabis really helps,especially as a tea,helps with
sleep and lack of sleep is probably the worst part.

I felt as thogh I did not sleep for the first 7 days,I must of a little here
and there,though no memeory of it,after taking mushrooms,|got my first good
sleep,they seemed to  release blocked energy in my brain.

Sleep is still difficult though easier every day.

I am not a triper,well I did a bit when I was 14 and 15. I tell you though,
Taking natural mushrooms on two accasions helped greatly,I would not ever
have thought so,however Sara is right mushrooms help.I suppose anything in
moderation.

This email is taxing,energy wise,but I’m so bored I have to type,so much
effort to do anything,typing half the pace,Mmmmmm.

Wow,the feeling of being off the Doné’ is wonderfully freeing.
I am Free
I am Free
I am Free
And it is wonderful!

With love Jasen 🙂

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 3 december 2004 15:07
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Speaking of dark entities,

I believe Trioculus(see below) inhabited my body,
spurning me on to commit heinous acts of hedonism,
sexual worship and whatnot…

I’m just joking, but seriously: check out this
demon…(s)he’s the personification of, well, UGLY…

Julie  🙂

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Mr. Lee
Date: December 4, 2004 at 8:26:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Martee,
When I say language; I mean not only words. Pictures also words beacuse picture or image of an apple; is not an apple. Endeed. It’s picture or image of an apple. Human world is world of symbols. Look around of you; you will see billions of symbol. Human is a kind of animal that symbolize everything. This is our nature. When you see a mountain in your dream; is it a real mountain? No It’s image of mountain.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: m.finman
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Mr. Lee

FP,
I believe without language one could think in pictures and emotions and maybe we would then be able to cultivate an ability (that I think we all possess) to communicate on a more empathic, psycic level.  Animals do it and we’re supposed to be more than animals.  You ever see a pack of lions strategize a hunt.  It has more detail than a football play!  Just a thought.  I saw it on a star trek episode so it must be true.                        Much love,
Martee
ps. so glad you are coming along ok.
—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Mr. Lee

Dear Mr. Lee,
Thank you for your valuable coments on what I’m saying. But there is two important thing;

1- I’m talking about naturel languages and upper languages; if there is no language exist in world; no one can think; You can imagine about it; without language could you cominicate or even think. Language and thinking is very close; you can not seperate. Some concepts (when I say language; I mean everything dreams; our bodies cominication with itself etc..) of mankind are comes from nature of mankind. You know without learning; that’s means “the idols of self knowledge” is this. This is what I’m saying.

2-I have no good skill on English.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Julie about Jung and etc… & Mysticism

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept. <<
FakePlacebo,
That last sentence speaks volumes.
I think there is a kind of anti-intellectual spiritualism which dismisses the differentiation of the spiritual world into parts based on the correct notion that all is everything and that one should somehow seek to be all at once and not differentiate. Hence why bother with the parts?
I am not trying to hit out at anyone here but I am trying to caution against a kind of witch hunt mentality which excludes the proper understanding of levels of existance outside the normal, i.e., the paranormal or the mystical, which can help greatly on the healing journey.
Who can say that there is not a divine plan, a purpose to our being that leads to soul growth (through many lives) which eventually leads to Cosmic consciousness of what is contained within the Cosmos & beyond?
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
Part of my healing journey was to have the humility to give up the notion that my “individual” psychological / spiritual problems should not be viewed individually – that I should see everything as a whole (a kind of Krisnamurti period) – of course they are all connected like the particle and the wave… In that state I lived in torture and ongoing confusion and a sense of shame or guilt or something if I tried to think otherwise. By making things exist i found my freedom to resolve them through eboga and to expand my inner experience of self into areas that before where “possessed.”
Who is to say that there are not many levels of existence, each with its own awareness and set of entities?
Who is to say that souls which have chosen the dark side do not leave this world and inhabit a world of seperation and loveless existence and in turn prey on the positive energy of souls which are living in earthly bodies. In the same way as they sucked the life out of their fellow man during there own mortal existence.
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
I came to my ideas of entities as I witnessed them feeding off my own energy during a healing eboga session. It certainly helped my ego to understand a lot and to proceed in my own healing. Useful, I thought at the time, given that (for me) my ego, calmed through understanding (for one thing), plays a role in my sense of wellbeing which then allows my soul to peacefully exist.
I suppose some say the ego is not to be taken seriously. I have yet to find a way to exist without it ……… mmmmhm
Lee
FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear July,

Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.

One other importand issue about Jung; he prepared ability of understand
“Morphology Of Legend”

We can divade to our age two part; before Jung and after Jung.

I’m clean since 14th. of november. It sounds me like years but actualy it’s
very short time to recover. I know that I will feel better by the time.

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

Your thinking is very Importand for me, because two of us passing in same
kind of procedure and there is so many similarity.

Thank You
Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

> Hi FP,
>
> Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
> Jung? I think you would really like it. He writes
> about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
> God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
> Here’s a link to a portion of the text:
>
> http://www.near-death.com/jung.html
>
> FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
> the minimum time to replace methadone with short
> acting opiates. Like I’ve said many times, at the 25
> day point, my urine was still testing positive for
> methadone. I don’t believe there is any way to feel
> %100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
> the receptors and flushing out of the body.
>
> Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting time’…instead
> praise yourself that you didn’t extend your addiction
> to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is more
> common than you might expect. Praise yourself for the
> courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.
>
> How long have you been clean now?
>
> Julie
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Test
Date: December 4, 2004 at 12:21:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Test        tEst                   Check         Crack              cruckst

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie
Date: December 4, 2004 at 4:49:00 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, speaking from experience, the way I behave around certain women’s bf’s (usually the ones the look like they could pull my head off… lol the woman that is) is very careful, cos when I was younger a woman attacked me ( I was sitting in my bros car blissed out on pot and listening to music) she ripped the car door open and started pounding me, finally got it out of her that I’d beeen hitting on her man, who it turns out I didn’t even know,  let alone  had spoken to!!  Paranoid around certain women now? You betcha@!!! Shame that, I have trouble being myself. All because of viciously jealous women.
And ya wanna hear the irony? Turns out this creep she was seeing (also father to kids) got pissed off with her so he killed her kids kittens and nailed em to the wall and took off.
Sorry, that wasn’t too uplifting was it???
I got two purdy cats!
And I won 10 KG of chocolate??
Does that balance it out?
Kirk
From: thethird@myway.com [mailto:thethird@myway.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 4 December 2004 9:30 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie

hey Julie,,
Do you think that this catty trait in women is genetic at all. I just know that I never noticed it in women until I started getting older. I know young girls can be vicious to each other and get jealous of each other but it seems worse when they get older, so it seems more of a learned behavior. Maybe it’s because they see how society treats women who are better looking (men pay more attention to them, etc..). I also don’t understand why men aren’t as bad when they talk to other men. They of course have jealous feelings but they don’t seem to let them rule how they act. It is so rare to find a good female friend because even some of the most beautiful and secure women let the conniving jealous side of them come out when they feel threatened by other women. It’d be nice to know how to keep our daughters from becoming like that. 



— On Fri 12/03, Ms Iboga < ms_iboga@yahoo.com > wrote:
From: Ms Iboga [mailto: ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:01:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee

Dear Martee,

I also want to clarify another point- I am in no way
categorizing or lumping all women together…maybe
it’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(and
boys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousy
rather than love, compassion and understanding. It
doesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fed
intellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainment
industry and other dubious individuals, who are
primarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthy
lucre.

No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong and
insightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…

Julie




__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Meet the a! ll-new My Yahoo! – Try it today! 
http://my.yahoo.com 




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From: “” <thethird@myway.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Julie
Date: December 3, 2004 at 3:29:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey Julie,,
Do you think that this catty trait in women is genetic at all. I just know that I never noticed it in women until I started getting older. I know young girls can be vicious to each other and get jealous of each other but it seems worse when they get older, so it seems more of a learned behavior. Maybe it’s because they see how society treats women who are better looking (men pay more attention to them, etc..). I also don’t understand why men aren’t as bad when they talk to other men. They of course have jealous feelings but they don’t seem to let them rule how they act. It is so rare to find a good female friend because even some of the most beautiful and secure women let the conniving jealous side of them come out when they feel threatened by other women. It’d be nice to know how to keep our daughters from becoming like that.

— On Fri 12/03, Ms Iboga < ms_iboga@yahoo.com > wrote:

From: Ms Iboga [mailto: ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:01:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee

Dear Martee,

I also want to clarify another point- I am in no way
categorizing or lumping all women together…maybe
it’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(and
boys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousy
rather than love, compassion and understanding. It
doesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fed
intellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainment
industry and other dubious individuals, who are
primarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthy
lucre.

No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong and
insightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addictionDH
Date: December 3, 2004 at 3:17:45 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the info and the site.  I quickly browsed it and will return later.  Will  check out the colosan, although I have many protocols already,but with the survival mode the candida has you can never know too much.  I wouldn’t doubt 80%  may be a conservative estimate.  I’m suprised when someone doesn’t have it!
As always, I appreciate your perspective on things.  Good  call re: TV.
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

On Friday, December 3, 2004, at 09:09 AM, m.finman wrote:

Francis,
I would like to think it is more accepting of a positive power that would be responsible for that kind of a change.  Not to doubt what you have seen and experienced, but I have a hard time totally excepting the possession thing. Is it possible there can be a physical concrete reason for these things.  I saw a documentary years ago on PBS that detected during the time of the Salem witch hunts and trials the grains(I believe they were rye) had been molded and infested with fungus.  Ingesting certain types of these things can affect the brain and behavior.

I believe you are referring to ergot. (see also: http://www.borndigital.com/ergot.htm)

I’ve seen how very many of my clients have candida(fungus) systemically in their system and beside a host of physical issues it also leads to mind fog and depression.

From what I understand the “brain fog” comes from the waste products of candida, which is also known to cause cancer, and has a symbiotic relationship with parasites (such as the fluke) whose waste products are also toxic to the human body. A good product to help clear candida from the digestional track is Colosan, which oxygenates the digestive track, killing both parasites and candida. It is also effective against [opiate induced] constipation.

But Candida is very difficult to get rid of. an estimated 80% of the population has candida.

Although truth be told I do have my own black ashen snake leaving my body during my session that my host (very inutitive & somewhat psychic abilities) saw and the demon energy that remained after I left that he sent down the hall to the drug dealers house story!            Martee

Black snakes seem to be a common entity, I’ve heard other people speak of them as well.

Good, evil, the entire universe encapsulated within us etc… There are things that exist but cannot be rationalized or analyzed by science or logic. There are vibrations below and above our plane of existence that are teeming with beings who are attracted to our physical & astral bodies. If the human mind could constantly perceive these things we would certainly be overwhelmed and driven to insanity. Kind of like if we were to constantly hear our blood rushing through our veins. I’ve gone from sceptic to acceptor, with the help no small amount of eye opening psychedelics. Like I cannot prove my ibogaine experience and the visions I had, but have them I did, regardless of who believes what I report.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee
Date: December 3, 2004 at 2:50:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

KILL YOUR TELEVISION.

(IT IS KILLING YOU)

On Friday, December 3, 2004, at 09:29 AM, m.finman wrote:

Julie,
I agree on both of your messages, however I believe you missed my point.
Re: what you just stated, and I may have said this before, But I believe it is completly possible for your average person (especially in american society or maybe it is wherever big business dominates) to live their entire life without ever having an ORIGINAl thought or want because they are so influenced by the media, advertising, fads, keeping up with the jones and trying to maintain or one up others by having and doing what they think puts their status up. It’s all STUFF ! Having, being , aquiring, mostly showing off their stuff!
I personally involve myself as little as possible with this “type” and when I have to the subject is never their stuff.  Now I believe this is a type of possession!!!!
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee

Dear Martee,

I also want to clarify another point- I am in no way
categorizing or lumping all women together…maybe
it’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(and
boys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousy
rather than love, compassion and understanding.  It
doesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fed
intellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainment
industry and other dubious individuals, who are
primarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthy
lucre.

No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong and
insightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 2:49:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Friday, December 3, 2004, at 09:09 AM, m.finman wrote:

Francis,
I would like to think it is more accepting of a positive power that would be responsible for that kind of a change.  Not to doubt what you have seen and experienced, but I have a hard time totally excepting the possession thing. Is it possible there can be a physical concrete reason for these things.  I saw a documentary years ago on PBS that detected during the time of the Salem witch hunts and trials the grains(I believe they were rye) had been molded and infested with fungus.  Ingesting certain types of these things can affect the brain and behavior.

I believe you are referring to ergot. (see also: http://www.borndigital.com/ergot.htm)

I’ve seen how very many of my clients have candida(fungus) systemically in their system and beside a host of physical issues it also leads to mind fog and depression.

From what I understand the “brain fog” comes from the waste products of candida, which is also known to cause cancer, and has a symbiotic relationship with parasites (such as the fluke) whose waste products are also toxic to the human body. A good product to help clear candida from the digestional track is Colosan, which oxygenates the digestive track, killing both parasites and candida. It is also effective against [opiate induced] constipation.

But Candida is very difficult to get rid of. an estimated 80% of the population has candida.

Although truth be told I do have my own black ashen snake leaving my body during my session that my host (very inutitive & somewhat psychic abilities) saw and the demon energy that remained after I left that he sent down the hall to the drug dealers house story!                        Martee

Black snakes seem to be a common entity, I’ve heard other people speak of them as well.

Good, evil, the entire universe encapsulated within us etc… There are things that exist but cannot be rationalized or analyzed by science or logic. There are vibrations below and above our plane of existence that are teeming with beings who are attracted to our physical & astral bodies. If the human mind could constantly perceive these things we would certainly be overwhelmed and driven to insanity. Kind of like if we were to constantly hear our blood rushing through our veins. I’ve gone from sceptic to acceptor, with the help no small amount of eye opening psychedelics. Like I cannot prove my ibogaine experience and the visions I had, but have them I did, regardless of who believes what I report.

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee
Date: December 3, 2004 at 2:29:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,
I agree on both of your messages, however I believe you missed my point.
Re: what you just stated, and I may have said this before, But I believe it is completly possible for your average person (especially in american society or maybe it is wherever big business dominates) to live their entire life without ever having an ORIGINAl thought or want because they are so influenced by the media, advertising, fads, keeping up with the jones and trying to maintain or one up others by having and doing what they think puts their status up. It’s all STUFF ! Having, being , aquiring, mostly showing off their stuff!
I personally involve myself as little as possible with this “type” and when I have to the subject is never their stuff.  Now I believe this is a type of possession!!!!
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee

Dear Martee,

I also want to clarify another point- I am in no way
categorizing or lumping all women together…maybe
it’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(and
boys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousy
rather than love, compassion and understanding.  It
doesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fed
intellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainment
industry and other dubious individuals, who are
primarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthy
lucre.

No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong and
insightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 2:09:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Francis,
I would like to think it is more accepting of a positive power that would be responsible for that kind of a change.  Not to doubt what you have seen and experienced, but I have a hard time totally excepting the possession thing. Is it possible there can be a physical concrete reason for these things.  I saw a documentary years ago on PBS that detected during the time of the Salem witch hunts and trials the grains(I believe they were rye) had been molded and infested with fungus.  Ingesting certain types of these things can affect the brain and behavior.  I’ve seen how very many of my clients have candida(fungus) systemically in their system and beside a host of physical issues it also leads to mind fog and depression.
Although truth be told I do have my own black ashen snake leaving my body during my session that my host (very inutitive & somewhat psychic abilities) saw and the demon energy that remained after I left that he sent down the hall to the drug dealers house story!                        Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

> So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
> legion… ” 🙂

“I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.

Julie (unintentional Bible scholar)  🙂

__________________________________________________
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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Mr. Lee
Date: December 3, 2004 at 1:58:12 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

FP,
I believe without language one could think in pictures and emotions and maybe we would then be able to cultivate an ability (that I think we all possess) to communicate on a more empathic, psycic level.  Animals do it and we’re supposed to be more than animals.  You ever see a pack of lions strategize a hunt.  It has more detail than a football play!  Just a thought.  I saw it on a star trek episode so it must be true.                        Much love,
Martee
ps. so glad you are coming along ok.
—– Original Message —–
From: FakePlacebo
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Mr. Lee

Dear Mr. Lee,
Thank you for your valuable coments on what I’m saying. But there is two important thing;

1- I’m talking about naturel languages and upper languages; if there is no language exist in world; no one can think; You can imagine about it; without language could you cominicate or even think. Language and thinking is very close; you can not seperate. Some concepts (when I say language; I mean everything dreams; our bodies cominication with itself etc..) of mankind are comes from nature of mankind. You know without learning; that’s means “the idols of self knowledge” is this. This is what I’m saying.

2-I have no good skill on English.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Julie about Jung and etc… & Mysticism

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept. <<
FakePlacebo,
That last sentence speaks volumes.
I think there is a kind of anti-intellectual spiritualism which dismisses the differentiation of the spiritual world into parts based on the correct notion that all is everything and that one should somehow seek to be all at once and not differentiate. Hence why bother with the parts?
I am not trying to hit out at anyone here but I am trying to caution against a kind of witch hunt mentality which excludes the proper understanding of levels of existance outside the normal, i.e., the paranormal or the mystical, which can help greatly on the healing journey.
Who can say that there is not a divine plan, a purpose to our being that leads to soul growth (through many lives) which eventually leads to Cosmic consciousness of what is contained within the Cosmos & beyond?
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
Part of my healing journey was to have the humility to give up the notion that my “individual” psychological / spiritual problems should not be viewed individually – that I should see everything as a whole (a kind of Krisnamurti period) – of course they are all connected like the particle and the wave… In that state I lived in torture and ongoing confusion and a sense of shame or guilt or something if I tried to think otherwise. By making things exist i found my freedom to resolve them through eboga and to expand my inner experience of self into areas that before where “possessed.”
Who is to say that there are not many levels of existence, each with its own awareness and set of entities?
Who is to say that souls which have chosen the dark side do not leave this world and inhabit a world of seperation and loveless existence and in turn prey on the positive energy of souls which are living in earthly bodies. In the same way as they sucked the life out of their fellow man during there own mortal existence.
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
I came to my ideas of entities as I witnessed them feeding off my own energy during a healing eboga session. It certainly helped my ego to understand a lot and to proceed in my own healing. Useful, I thought at the time, given that (for me) my ego, calmed through understanding (for one thing), plays a role in my sense of wellbeing which then allows my soul to peacefully exist.
I suppose some say the ego is not to be taken seriously. I have yet to find a way to exist without it ……… mmmmhm
Lee
FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear July,

Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.

One other importand issue about Jung; he prepared ability of understand
“Morphology Of Legend”

We can divade to our age two part; before Jung and after Jung.

I’m clean since 14th. of november. It sounds me like years but actualy it’s
very short time to recover. I know that I will feel better by the time.

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

Your thinking is very Importand for me, because two of us passing in same
kind of procedure and there is so many similarity.

Thank You
Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

> Hi FP,
>
> Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
> Jung? I think you would really like it. He writes
> about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
> God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
> Here’s a link to a portion of the text:
>
> http://www.near-death.com/jung.html
>
> FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
> the minimum time to replace methadone with short
> acting opiates. Like I’ve said many times, at the 25
> day point, my urine was still testing positive for
> methadone. I don’t believe there is any way to feel
> %100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
> the receptors and flushing out of the body.
>
> Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting time’…instead
> praise yourself that you didn’t extend your addiction
> to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is more
> common than you might expect. Praise yourself for the
> courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.
>
> How long have you been clean now?
>
> Julie
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Martee
Date: December 3, 2004 at 1:01:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Martee,

I also want to clarify another point- I am in no way
categorizing or lumping all women together…maybe
it’s just my generation, but it seems many girls(and
boys) are motivated by greed, vanity and jealousy
rather than love, compassion and understanding.  It
doesn’t help when they are constantly spoon-fed
intellectual pablum by the media, music/entertainment
industry and other dubious individuals, who are
primarily interested and motivated by hoarding filthy
lucre.

No offense meant…you are an amazing, strong and
insightful woman, and I feel honoured to know you…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! – Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list
Date: December 3, 2004 at 1:02:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

take some Ibogaine, you will achieve this.

On Friday, December 3, 2004, at 07:27 AM, Ms Iboga wrote:

LOL, OK here goes: “I wish to transcend my physical
body, and soar through the universe in astral form.”

Hello??  Hello, God…can you hear me????

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:59:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie, is that your art? wether or not, pretty cool.
_.dh

On Friday, December 3, 2004, at 04:06 AM, Ms Iboga wrote:

Speaking of dark entities,

I believe Trioculus(see below) inhabited my body,
spurning me on to commit heinous acts of hedonism,
sexual worship and whatnot…

I’m just joking, but seriously: check out this
demon…(s)he’s the personification of, well, UGLY…

Julie  🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail<Trioculus.jpg>
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Julie Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:56:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe try tour 1 on this page for more info?
http://www.ibogaine.org/tours.html
Lee

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

L’ibogaïne en psychothérapie et dans la lutte contre les pharmacodépendances
aux stupéfiants

Robert GOUTAREL, Directeur de Recherche Honoraire au C.N.R.S.;
Otto GOLLNHOFER et Roger SILLANS, ethnologues, C.N.R.S.
(France, Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique)

http://www.iboga.org/fr/goutarel/bwtfgg.htm

Infortunately the study is in french and I don’t know more about it. Maybee
you can find a translation on Internet

God bless you
Francis

You wrote :
>
> Oh…My…God…Please post more about this…
>
> Julie
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: Thank you Francis- Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:52:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thank you very much, Francis…you have a great day
now, OK…..

love Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] To Julie Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:46:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

L’ibogaïne en psychothérapie et dans la lutte contre les pharmacodépendances
aux stupéfiants

Robert GOUTAREL, Directeur de Recherche Honoraire au C.N.R.S.;
Otto GOLLNHOFER et Roger SILLANS, ethnologues, C.N.R.S.
(France, Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique)

http://www.iboga.org/fr/goutarel/bwtfgg.htm

Infortunately the study is in french and I don’t know more about it. Maybee
you can find a translation on Internet

God bless you
Francis

You wrote :

Oh…My…God…Please post more about this…

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:45:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.pabloamaringo.com/

paintings of ayahuasca sessions.

[there is a pot at the bottom of many of the paintings,
this is the pot with the brew. The guy who´s in all the paintings (sometimes more than once) is P. Amaringo.]
dark and light, dancing above.
Coexistence, seems the only way to acceptation.
gdc.

—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:16 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction

Please discard if not interested

“The refusal of modern ” enlightenment ” to treat ” possession as a hypotesis to be spoken of as even posssible, in spite of the massive human tradition based on concrete experience in it’s favor, has always seemed to me a curious example of fashion in thing scientific.
That the demon-theory will have its inning again is to my mind absolutely certain.
One has to be ” scientific” indeed to be blind and ignorant enought to suspect no such possibility ”
William James considered by many as the father of American Psycology

For the one willing to investigate a little bit further, you could start with:

Healing States
A Journey Into The World Of Spiritual Healing and Shamanism
by Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. and Stanley Krippner, Ph.D
http://www.thefourwinds.com/Articles/bkEx_HS.html

The life and studies of Dr.Wickland
http://www.harvestfields.ca/ebook/01/063/00.htm

Ibogaine could be a door to another dimension. It’s interesting to find that the bwiti religion has 12 different branch
one is Ombwiri a society reserved only to women using Iboga and spirits helpers in public healing and spirit removal.The worst one is Bwiti N’Dea  sect of sorcerer using human sacrifices and cannibalism for the obtention of supernatural powers.

God bless
francis

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:38:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Frances,
Thanks for the info and posting those web site references.
God bless you too.
Lee

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Hi Lee
in a book :
An exorcist more stories by Father Amorth ( is the great Exorcist of the Vatican )
Another book : healing lost soul by William J.Baldwin Phd
He claims 30% of the miracles where depossession
God Bless

you wrote :
As a matter of interest where did you get that piece of info from?
Thanks,
Lee

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

>
> — The Garden wrote:
>
> > So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
> > legion… ” 🙂
>
> “I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
> madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
> by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
> of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
> cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.
>
> Julie (unintentional Bible scholar) 🙂
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:33:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ibogaine could be a door to another dimension.

I agree emphatically….

It’sinteresting to find that the bwiti religion has 12
different branch: one is Ombwiri a society reserved
only to women
using Iboga and spirits helpers in public healing
and spirit removal.The worst one is Bwiti N’Dea
sect of sorcerer using human sacrifices and
cannibalism for the obtention of supernatural
powers.

Oh…My…God…Please post more about this…

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:32:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee
in a book :
An exorcist more stories by Father Amorth ( is the great Exorcist of the Vatican )
Another book : healing lost soul by William J.Baldwin Phd
He claims 30% of the miracles where depossession
God Bless

you wrote :
As a matter of interest where did you get that piece of info from?
Thanks,
Lee

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

>
> — The Garden wrote:
>
> > So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
> > legion… ” 🙂
>
> “I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
> madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
> by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
> of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
> cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.
>
> Julie (unintentional Bible scholar) 🙂
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:27:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, OK here goes: “I wish to transcend my physical
body, and soar through the universe in astral form.”

Hello??  Hello, God…can you hear me????

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Patrick
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:25:30 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Martee,

It has been my experience that many women are
socialized to compete with each other on a
physical/sexual( and possibly materialistic), rather
than intellectual level.  I find this tremendously
unfortunate, and thus I connect more with women who
are not passive, indecisive, catty and self-involved-
not that all men are this way, cuz they sure as hell
aren’t.  And BTW, I believe the girls on this list do
not tend to display these unattractive qualities.

I just think there are more important things in life
than who is the prettiest, who has the most gold
jewellery, who has the best body…things we are
taught by popular culture to value…it makes me truly
sick to reflect on it..

Julie

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:19:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
Francis,
As a matter of interest where did you get that piece of info from?
Thanks,
Lee

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

>
> — The Garden wrote:
>
> > So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
> > legion… ” 🙂
>
> “I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
> madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
> by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
> of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
> cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.
>
> Julie (unintentional Bible scholar) 🙂
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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>

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Way out of topic dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:16:14 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please discard if not interested

“The refusal of modern ” enlightenment ” to treat ” possession as a hypotesis to be spoken of as even posssible, in spite of the massive human tradition based on concrete experience in it’s favor, has always seemed to me a curious example of fashion in thing scientific.
That the demon-theory will have its inning again is to my mind absolutely certain.
One has to be ” scientific” indeed to be blind and ignorant enought to suspect no such possibility ”
William James considered by many as the father of American Psycology

For the one willing to investigate a little bit further, you could start with:

Healing States
A Journey Into The World Of Spiritual Healing and Shamanism
by Alberto Villoldo, Ph.D. and Stanley Krippner, Ph.D
http://www.thefourwinds.com/Articles/bkEx_HS.html

The life and studies of Dr.Wickland
http://www.harvestfields.ca/ebook/01/063/00.htm

Ibogaine could be a door to another dimension. It’s interesting to find that the bwiti religion has 12 different branch
one is Ombwiri a society reserved only to women using Iboga and spirits helpers in public healing and spirit removal.The worst one is Bwiti N’Dea  sect of sorcerer using human sacrifices and cannibalism for the obtention of supernatural powers.

God bless
francis

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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Subtle Beings & Affliction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 11:47:37 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Om Lokah Samistha Sukino Bhavantu (May all Beings in all the Worlds be Happy)
Uh, no, I was not joking, but let me clarify.  I personally didn’t think “I” exorcised anything.  Or cast anything out.  They just didn’t want to be there anymore.

It felt like they were present in the absence of attention.  Or a deficit of protection.  So possibly the renewal of his life force with the alliance of mine changed the pattern of “shields.”

I was just trying to share a visual experience I had of the departure of these particular parasitical seeming energies.  But lets call them subtle beings instead of dark entitites then, if that works better on the inclusive model of holistic “all good”.

The question seems to be whether the integrity of your personal patch of earth, the turf staked out as your soul’s container, has some boundaries to be respected.  You’d take flagyl if you got a case of the flukes or amoebas, right?  Or diflucan if the yeasties took over and cheesed up your mouth or your cootchie, eh?

So, Beatrice, maybe you want to put some aura-cleansing materials in your suiticase, which as far as I know are still legal.  Burning sage or other sweet herbs during the treatment to keep the good spirits happy and vampiric ones at a safe distance?  A sea salt and coconut milk bath to clear your physical field after the treatment?  I guess incense is not clinically indicated, but “it can’t hurt” can it?

lots of love,
Rachel
(who infinitely prefers seeing rainbows in his hair than black dragonbats flying off his back, and is looking forward to hearing the Voices in the Head one of these days down the line)
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 3, 2004 at 11:25:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 11:16:22 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Julie :-).
50% of Jesus miracles are related to the casting out demons
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
legion… ” 🙂

“I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.

Julie (unintentional Bible scholar)  🙂

__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list
Date: December 3, 2004 at 11:15:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I love when people post their desires here on-list, it makes me feel like part of the family.
Plus, it makes me laugh a lot too, when it’s something like, “I wanna get off this here list” and then, immediately below that stated wish, there’s this handy link where they could actually get off this here list. But perhaps it’s just the fact they’ve stated the wish that helps them feel better or more accomplished?
“I wish I had a million dollars.”
Let’s see what happens. Any “I wanna million dollars” Commands listed here anywhere?
“I would like to be removed.” Did someone else subscribe you? Why would you need someone else to unsubscribe you? Lack of personal responsibility and effort these days darn it, a symptom of our sick apathetic society…errr, hold on, I’m appearing a real heavy here, but really, I’m honestly trying to be light hearted, so take it lightheartedly please.
;-))
(then check out the handy ibogaine list commands link just below your incredibly short wish list.)

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:06 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list

I would like to be removed from your mailing list since i receive about 30
mails a day . Something i did nor intend at all

Thanks in advance

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Patrick
Date: December 3, 2004 at 10:45:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,
I don’t get why one would catagorize strength, confidence and independence as masculine traits.  I personally believe that sooo many personal and relationship problems exist because women are supposed to exhibit certain traits ( oh you’re so cute when you get angry! ) and men others.  I can’t tell you how many men and boys I have encountered who display only two emotions, angry and not angry!!
I believe you know all this, but it goes to show how much stuff is so engrained in our way of thinking that even someone with your intelligence and rational way of thinking can perpetuate such stuff.  Hey I find myself doing the same thing in other areas.  The thing is to shorten the time lapse between saying(thinking) it and realizing what brainwash it all is.
Again, Julie this is in no way a put down.  I have the utmost respect for you.  Just an observation I couldn’t let pass.  Must be those 10 years of assault prevention workshops.                          Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Patrick

The only magic that takes place is, basically, I
siddown in the same
room and exist.  The end.  They calm down.  With men
it’s more variable
(for me), and the responses vary.  With men I
usually have to do
something, say something, be someone.  Just Existing
is often not
enough with do0dz (once again, in MY case, working
with men).

Your statement almost seems to support the existence
of some kind of treatment provider sexual
dynamic…you are talking about Ibo treatment, right?
Are just sexual dynamics in general?

It’s weird, Patrick, but I generally feel the same
way- I find it easier to feel ‘at EEZZEE’ with guys
rather than girls.  With many gals, I feel there is
too much posturing or fronting going on to really make
a connection.  Too much subconscious
COMPETITION…There are odd exceptions, for example
most of my girlfriends are strong, independent woman,
dare I say, almost MASCULINE, with masculine
tendencies and passions buzzing around their
head(don’t read ‘lesbian’- these gals adore the Big
Bamboo).

I’m interested to hear other stories from Ibo
providers of both sexes…Was there a correlation
between success(or failure) rate and sexual dynamic?
Or is this complete hogwash?

Julie

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Mr. Lee
Date: December 3, 2004 at 10:33:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Mr. Lee,
Thank you for your valuable coments on what I’m saying. But there is two important thing;

1- I’m talking about naturel languages and upper languages; if there is no language exist in world; no one can think; You can imagine about it; without language could you cominicate or even think. Language and thinking is very close; you can not seperate. Some concepts (when I say language; I mean everything dreams; our bodies cominication with itself etc..) of mankind are comes from nature of mankind. You know without learning; that’s means “the idols of self knowledge” is this. This is what I’m saying.

2-I have no good skill on English.

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 2:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Julie about Jung and etc… & Mysticism

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept. <<
FakePlacebo,
That last sentence speaks volumes.
I think there is a kind of anti-intellectual spiritualism which dismisses the differentiation of the spiritual world into parts based on the correct notion that all is everything and that one should somehow seek to be all at once and not differentiate. Hence why bother with the parts?
I am not trying to hit out at anyone here but I am trying to caution against a kind of witch hunt mentality which excludes the proper understanding of levels of existance outside the normal, i.e., the paranormal or the mystical, which can help greatly on the healing journey.
Who can say that there is not a divine plan, a purpose to our being that leads to soul growth (through many lives) which eventually leads to Cosmic consciousness of what is contained within the Cosmos & beyond?
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
Part of my healing journey was to have the humility to give up the notion that my “individual” psychological / spiritual problems should not be viewed individually – that I should see everything as a whole (a kind of Krisnamurti period) – of course they are all connected like the particle and the wave… In that state I lived in torture and ongoing confusion and a sense of shame or guilt or something if I tried to think otherwise. By making things exist i found my freedom to resolve them through eboga and to expand my inner experience of self into areas that before where “possessed.”
Who is to say that there are not many levels of existence, each with its own awareness and set of entities?
Who is to say that souls which have chosen the dark side do not leave this world and inhabit a world of seperation and loveless existence and in turn prey on the positive energy of souls which are living in earthly bodies. In the same way as they sucked the life out of their fellow man during there own mortal existence.
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
I came to my ideas of entities as I witnessed them feeding off my own energy during a healing eboga session. It certainly helped my ego to understand a lot and to proceed in my own healing. Useful, I thought at the time, given that (for me) my ego, calmed through understanding (for one thing), plays a role in my sense of wellbeing which then allows my soul to peacefully exist.
I suppose some say the ego is not to be taken seriously. I have yet to find a way to exist without it ……… mmmmhm
Lee
FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear July,

Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.

One other importand issue about Jung; he prepared ability of understand
“Morphology Of Legend”

We can divade to our age two part; before Jung and after Jung.

I’m clean since 14th. of november. It sounds me like years but actualy it’s
very short time to recover. I know that I will feel better by the time.

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

Your thinking is very Importand for me, because two of us passing in same
kind of procedure and there is so many similarity.

Thank You
Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

> Hi FP,
>
> Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
> Jung? I think you would really like it. He writes
> about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
> God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
> Here’s a link to a portion of the text:
>
> http://www.near-death.com/jung.html
>
> FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
> the minimum time to replace methadone with short
> acting opiates. Like I’ve said many times, at the 25
> day point, my urine was still testing positive for
> methadone. I don’t believe there is any way to feel
> %100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
> the receptors and flushing out of the body.
>
> Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting time’…instead
> praise yourself that you didn’t extend your addiction
> to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is more
> common than you might expect. Praise yourself for the
> courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.
>
> How long have you been clean now?
>
> Julie
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 3, 2004 at 10:26:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beatrice,
I think you may indeed have unknowingly done the best thing for yourself all the way around.  Where many of us, myself included, were recommended to switch off methedone and back on H prior, I believe with only a few days of meth you can actually get past the h withdrawl for the most part and not yet be really addicted to methedone yet.  What I used to do to kick (100’s of times it worked physically but never mentally) was 3 days of Methedone, and then stop.  In 3 days the H withdrawl was done and there was still an accumulation of Meth in the body to take you through another day or two without any withdrawl from either.  I believe the 28 day methedone detox protocol is to addict you to it not get you off anything.  Sounds like one of the biggest scams perpetuated on the public by the drug companys, other than the cholesterol scam they have going now.  Stopping at 5mgs of methedone still leaves you with a whole lot of pain.
Beatrice, you have my prayers, support and blessings.  I wish all your intentions come to be.                 Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Beatrice Blue” <beatriceblue@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…

Thank you so much, Howard!  From what I’ve heard, I value your opinion.  I
guess I’ll just have to try my best and suffer through it, I suppose.

Martee & Ms. Iboga, also thank you!  I have spoken to my providers that I’ll
be working with this weekend, who also say no, so I have given up the
Naltrexone idea completely.  From what all involved say, I should not
experience even a tenth of what I did the first time.  And from the sounds
of it, what I will experience I’ll be able to handle.  I was a heroin addict
for goodness sake, so lack of energy at least won’t be new.  After all, I
made a career out of my habit, I can’t expect overnight miracles.  And I’m
willing to do the necessary work.  Hopefully some of you will be there for
me if, and when, I need you when I return, and I hope I’ll be able to do the
same for some of you in the future.

I’ll tell all of you all about my first experience (and my second!) when I
return, but I’ll leave you with this about my first time around: I was
indeed told to go on Methadone before my treatment, and actually didn’t do
it immediately when told to weeks beforehand.  Instead I waited until a few
days beforehand and during travel.  I was told they didn’t feel comfortable
with me being on something illegal, even though I kept asking which would be
better on mind and body regardless of legality.  Eventually I was told there
would be no difference.  I received no boosters at all, even though I asked
for some more.  I was given the same initial dosage as everyone else in my
group, no matter what our habits were, our sex, or our weight.  Almost the
entire group felt very mislead about several things about the program.  My
‘providers’ were very well respected and have been mentioned extensively on
this list.  Enough said.  I’m sure you all know who by now, but for those of
you who may not have guessed, read my experience diary when I return after
the 15th, if you’re interested.  I’ll definitely post it!

Take care, and no matter your beliefs, please pray for me Sunday… I need
all the help I can get!!!!
Beatrice

BTW, I don’t know if this matters or not, but I’m a smoker.  I don’t shoot
or sniff, I smoke, and for 8-10 years I always have.

On 12/2/04 2:40 PM, “HSLotsof@aol.com” <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 12/2/04 1:59:29 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

<< Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those

of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.

My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7

days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body

out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and

after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the

most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could

sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! >>

If you are feeling bad naltrexone will make you feel worse.  I would be very
skeptical about doing naltrexone less then 14 days post ibogaine.

Howard

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 10:18:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie, I definitely hit save on that demon. You know a lot of the women addicts that I know say the same thing about getting along with guys better than girls. Hmmmm I’d rather hang out with girls than guys. LOL I think we have something here.        Randy

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 9:22:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually looks like someone I saw on the street the other day. I’d say, “give up the smokes mate. They are ruining your complexion!” The sexual worship bit …mmmmhm… not all bad.

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Speaking of dark entities,

I believe Trioculus(see below) inhabited my body,
spurning me on to commit heinous acts of hedonism,
sexual worship and whatnot…

I’m just joking, but seriously: check out this
demon…(s)he’s the personification of, well, UGLY…

Julie 🙂

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> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/jpeg name=Trioculus.jpg

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 9:06:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Speaking of dark entities,

I believe Trioculus(see below) inhabited my body,
spurning me on to commit heinous acts of hedonism,
sexual worship and whatnot…

I’m just joking, but seriously: check out this
demon…(s)he’s the personification of, well, UGLY…

Julie  🙂

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 8:40:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am
legion… ” 🙂

“I am legion”, comes from the Bible…Jesus finds a
madman(read: possessed by a LEGION of demons) residing
by some cliffs, and casts out these demons into a herd
of swine, who then rush, maddened, to the edge of the
cliff, and plunge themselves over into the ‘abyss’.

Julie (unintentional Bible scholar)  🙂

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction- Patrick
Date: December 3, 2004 at 8:36:57 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only magic that takes place is, basically, I
siddown in the same
room and exist.  The end.  They calm down.  With men
it’s more variable
(for me), and the responses vary.  With men I
usually have to do
something, say something, be someone.  Just Existing
is often not
enough with do0dz (once again, in MY case, working
with men).

Your statement almost seems to support the existence
of some kind of treatment provider sexual
dynamic…you are talking about Ibo treatment, right?
Are just sexual dynamics in general?

It’s weird, Patrick, but I generally feel the same
way- I find it easier to feel ‘at EEZZEE’ with guys
rather than girls.  With many gals, I feel there is
too much posturing or fronting going on to really make
a connection.  Too much subconscious
COMPETITION…There are odd exceptions, for example
most of my girlfriends are strong, independent woman,
dare I say, almost MASCULINE, with masculine
tendencies and passions buzzing around their
head(don’t read ‘lesbian’- these gals adore the Big
Bamboo).

I’m interested to hear other stories from Ibo
providers of both sexes…Was there a correlation
between success(or failure) rate and sexual dynamic?
Or is this complete hogwash?

Julie

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 3, 2004 at 7:38:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds like you are doing a lot of work on yourself.
I can resonate with what you are saying here.
I imagine you have noted big changes in your life.
Lee

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
5-HTP (a seratonin precursor) and melatonin have been recommended
for sleep post-ibo. Also herbs like chamomile, valerian, and
others.

If you can do something like yoga, it may help with sleep and
irritability. Therapy is always recommended, since emotional issues
are brought out by ibogaine, and these can manifest as a variety of
discomforts. It may sound odd, but sometimes people can get
feelings out (and some relief) by screaming into a pillow – perhaps
to ask the eboga spirit for more help or to call on one’s
ancestors. Or just to complain 🙂

The main thing is to explore as much emotional discomfort as one
can without getting overwhelmed. As the new territory becomes
familiar, a new richness comes into one’s life to replace old
emotional habits. I find it to be very slow but rewarding work.
Sometimes discomfort seems to be designed expressly to avoid having
good feelings that were not reliably obtainable in childhood, other
times it might be anger turned inward.

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:28:49 -0800 FakePlacebo
wrote:
>Dear Julie,
>
>Totaly agreed with you. I feel almost same way with you. What a
>coinidence I
>hate all kind of religion dogma but here in Turkey Muslim
>propoganda comes
>to my office by the some fool and ignorant “friends”. After Iboga
>I said to
>them fuck off….I become very rude one.
>
>I’m not filtering and depressing my feelings anymore. But there is

>something
>different then you I did not experienced weakness as you did.
>After 8 days I
>started to feel that I can go to work. 11. days started to work.
>But there
>is still little pains on my muscles. Insomnia still affects me
>very bad way.
>I’m watching billions of movie, cable and satelite Tv, DVD etc…
>every
>night I’m awake untill 4:00 AM. I’m using some benzodiazepin pills

>for
>sleeping it works but next day I feel like a fool. This kind of
>drugs lasts
>for hours. Sometimes joint could make me avaible for sleepin but
>sometimes.
>
>I have to find a way to sleep because this Insomnia issue drive me

>crazy.
>Last to days I slept totaly 2,5 hours at all.
>Please keep on write to me because I need to know that I’m not the

>only one
>to feel like as I’m real.
>
>Thank you for what you shared with me
>Bets Regards
>FakePlacebo
>
>
>
>
>—– Original Message —–
>From: “Ms Iboga”
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie)
>
>
>> Hi FP,
>>
>> Hi, How are you? In short, I feel great. Still
>> haven’t touched any opiates, and have no real desire
>> to do so. However, I believe that is due only in part
>> to the noribogaine that may or may not be floating
>> around my system- I really wanted to quit. My
>> body/mind was tired, dare I say DISGUSTED, by the
>> whole scene, and I believe this realization is making
>> opiate abstinence quite easy right now.
>>
>> I had energy/fatigue problems for the first 2-3 weeks,
>> but my body has since normalized, and I feel pretty
>> good overall. Sleep issues are a whole different
>> story altogether- I STILL have sleep disturbances. My
>> doc told me it can take months to normalize (something
>> about opiates acting on the area of the brain that
>> regulates sleep.
>>
>> In terms of personality changes, I feel a lot more,
>> um, RAW- nothing is filtered out anymore. Every
>> beautiful situation, every annoying and ugly one- I
>> embrace each and every moment with the naivete of a 5
>> year old.
>>
>> I would say I also stick up for myself more now,
>> without the aid of rose-tinted, opiated glasses. I
>> have an aunt who used to send me the most ridiculous,
>> right-wing, Christian fundamentalist propaganda,
>> almost on a daily basis. It annoyed the fuck out of
>> me. Well, needless to say, I critically ‘dissected’
>> the last piece of clap-trap, and LO AND BEHOLD: no
>> more Christian, exclusionist dogma forwarded to my
>> Inbox.
>>
>> As with other methods of detox, TIME is the only way
>> to truly recover…don’t worry, Fake Placebo: if your
>> TIME hasn’t come yet, it will soon…
>>
>> cheers,
>> Julie
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Do You Yahoo!?
>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>
>>
>>
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] [OT] To Julie about Jung and etc… & Mysticism
Date: December 3, 2004 at 7:34:13 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept. <<
FakePlacebo,
That last sentence speaks volumes.
I think there is a kind of anti-intellectual spiritualism which dismisses the differentiation of the spiritual world into parts based on the correct notion that all is everything and that one should somehow seek to be all at once and not differentiate. Hence why bother with the parts?
I am not trying to hit out at anyone here but I am trying to caution against a kind of witch hunt mentality which excludes the proper understanding of levels of existance outside the normal, i.e., the paranormal or the mystical, which can help greatly on the healing journey.
Who can say that there is not a divine plan, a purpose to our being that leads to soul growth (through many lives) which eventually leads to Cosmic consciousness of what is contained within the Cosmos & beyond?
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
Part of my healing journey was to have the humility to give up the notion that my “individual” psychological / spiritual problems should not be viewed individually – that I should see everything as a whole (a kind of Krisnamurti period) – of course they are all connected like the particle and the wave… In that state I lived in torture and ongoing confusion and a sense of shame or guilt or something if I tried to think otherwise. By making things exist i found my freedom to resolve them through eboga and to expand my inner experience of self into areas that before where “possessed.”
Who is to say that there are not many levels of existence, each with its own awareness and set of entities?
Who is to say that souls which have chosen the dark side do not leave this world and inhabit a world of seperation and loveless existence and in turn prey on the positive energy of souls which are living in earthly bodies. In the same way as they sucked the life out of their fellow man during there own mortal existence.
In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.
I came to my ideas of entities as I witnessed them feeding off my own energy during a healing eboga session. It certainly helped my ego to understand a lot and to proceed in my own healing. Useful, I thought at the time, given that (for me) my ego, calmed through understanding (for one thing), plays a role in my sense of wellbeing which then allows my soul to peacefully exist.
I suppose some say the ego is not to be taken seriously. I have yet to find a way to exist without it ……… mmmmhm
Lee
FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear July,

Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.

One other importand issue about Jung; he prepared ability of understand
“Morphology Of Legend”

We can divade to our age two part; before Jung and after Jung.

I’m clean since 14th. of november. It sounds me like years but actualy it’s
very short time to recover. I know that I will feel better by the time.

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

Your thinking is very Importand for me, because two of us passing in same
kind of procedure and there is so many similarity.

Thank You
Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga”
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

> Hi FP,
>
> Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
> Jung? I think you would really like it. He writes
> about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
> God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
> Here’s a link to a portion of the text:
>
> http://www.near-death.com/jung.html
>
> FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
> the minimum time to replace methadone with short
> acting opiates. Like I’ve said many times, at the 25
> day point, my urine was still testing positive for
> methadone. I don’t believe there is any way to feel
> %100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
> the receptors and flushing out of the body.
>
> Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting time’…instead
> praise yourself that you didn’t extend your addiction
> to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is more
> common than you might expect. Praise yourself for the
> courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.
>
> How long have you been clean now?
>
> Julie
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Julie about Jung and etc…
Date: December 3, 2004 at 5:45:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear July,

Jung is one of my Idols. I read every source that I can found in my mother
language. I read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections” for few times and yes most
interesting. “The Idols Self knowledge” concept for me is the very importand
to make unsaid to said. In a language; concepts make the things exist.
Unconscious makes itself known with a concept.

One other importand issue about Jung; he prepared ability of understand
“Morphology Of Legend”

We can divade to our age two part; before Jung and after Jung.

I’m clean since 14th. of november. It sounds me like years but actualy it’s
very short time to recover. I know that I will feel better by the time.

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

Your thinking is very Importand for me, because two of us passing in same
kind of procedure and there is so many similarity.

Thank You
Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Hi FP,

Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
Jung?  I think you would really like it.  He writes
about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
Here’s a link to a portion of the text:

http://www.near-death.com/jung.html

FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
the minimum time to replace methadone with short
acting opiates.  Like I’ve said many times, at the 25
day point, my urine was still testing positive for
methadone.  I don’t believe there is any way to feel
%100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
the receptors and flushing out of the body.

Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting time’…instead
praise yourself that you didn’t extend your addiction
to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is more
common than you might expect.  Praise yourself for the
courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.

How long have you been clean now?

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: “roxieseattle” <roxieseattle@comcast.net>
Subject: Fw: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] deep breath
Date: December 3, 2004 at 4:34:36 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

sorry: like i said, i’m a new member, and i screwed up the names/identities
of the not-guilty….i meant paula, not rachel.  roxie
—– Original Message —–
From: “roxieseattle” <roxieseattle@comcast.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] deep breath

hi pp: i’m a new listerenr(lurker?) on this site. i’ve not checked back in
since thanksgiving and found myself moved fairly early on in my
chronological review of postings to say that i LOVED the william
burrough’s
poem, and i think everyone made too big a deal about rachel’s post (it was
quite obviously a pissy: #speak no evil to me, cause i’m way too close to
the black whole of depression and i need to vent a little rage in order to
rise above it); but i also loved your reply.

roxie
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] deep breath

Thanks Rachel,
Yes, I did miss her (the friendly and supportive Paula) introducing
herself to the list here.
I didn’t miss her extra-unfriendly and unsupportive note of
yesterday
though, and as I had apparently missed her previous post(s) I did think
her
a lurker (but now see she’s a drinker, and from my own personal
experience
find many -not all- drinkers the least friendly people I know, at least
when
they are “problem” drinkers, so perhaps I can put her oh-so friendly and
supportive response to my Burroughs note down to that). Thanks kindly
for
setting me straight.
I wasn’t on a “tear” nor have I been on a “tear” in quite some time.
My
use patterns don’t involve “tears” (well, depending on how one
prounounces
that word, as I do at time, more often than I care to, experience
awfully
wet tears) or at the least haven’t involved “tears” as I myself would
use
the term for almost 8 years now. I may very well have been “oblivious”
but
when dealing with hundreds of emails every single day (no exaggeration
whatsoever), seeing as my “job” entails my being online all day every
day
reading emails and other stuff too, I do occasionally miss a missive
here
and there, so I apologize to you and to Paula for mislabling her a
“lurker.”
How about “new subscriber” or “new member of the ibogaine list” or “just
arrived recently to this list and doesn’t know me or many people here at
all
so far as I know so attacking me for posting a fairly normal, regular,
uncontroversial note considering the usual fare here is unusual and took
me
aback.” Does that fit better Rachel?
I also sincerely wish Paula luck and good vibes in her travails with
that nurse putting off her ibogaine treatment. But now I’m really
confused-
was Paula giving us a happy tale, or what? I mean, was her report about
the
ibogaine postponement somehow a happy, positive note, along with that
“depressing” 12-step relapse meeting mention?
I understand that people, myself included, can sometimes fly off the
handle and write really mean notes to strangers online, it being very
easy
for some to do so what with the anonymity inherent in emailing others
(and
for others who are simply mean people at heart), but I didn’t appreciate
her
little missive to me at all, and found myself really hurt by the
surprising
attack on me from someone I still consider a stranger. Why I let it hurt
me
so much I don’t know- perhaps I was simply tired and sore and in pain
and
not at my best.
And now I feel really bad, in that I’ve now searched and found other
notes from Paula (a grand total of 4), and am very surprised and more
hurt,
in that she posted that really cool (and totally off-topic note- two out
of
4 posts are off topic? LOL! That’s helpful in my own quest for a better
life
and happier times) note the other day about the Nuclear Kittens needing
homes, the note I sent out to family and friends and fellow cat lovers
all
over the world (having 9 of the little rescued beasties sharing our
teeny
LES apartment here- so yes, that post was certainly helpful in my own
personal quest towards happiness and joy), and laughed very hard at when
first seeing. I had a real soft spot for the person that sent that,
automatically feeling real kinship towards anyone who posts positive or
funny notes about cats, but not knowing it was Paula who has done so, it
didn’t color my reaction to her nasty note of yesterday, and now that I
know
it’s the same person, I’m really bummed out that someone I actually had
been
thinking loving, friendly thoughts towards until yesterday has now
totally
changed the impression I had of her, with just . Out of the four notes
she’s
so far posted that I can find in my box, one was a gripe about how
miserable
she is, one was an attack note towards me, one was that very funny and
appreciated kittens note previously mentioned, and now the “what the
bleep”
advert in which she makes some crack about brain cells. So as near as I
can
tell, to Paula it’s Paula who is important and the rest (well, that’s
not
really true, it’s so far just me as near as I can tell) who have the
gall
to
post something not so positive can take a hike, or something. I think it
very funny that two of her four notes to the ibogaine list so far
posted,
replying directly to my own posts, have contained cracks about thinking
(one
directly and one obliquely) at me, a guy who uses his braincells for a
living. What is up with that?
I’m not that impressed at all.
But I do still wish her, very sincerely as hard as it might be for
me
to
do so at the moment as irritated as I’ve let myself get over her notes
and
attitude towards me personally, positive thoughts, best of luck in
kicking
that alcohol habit, finding a room or help that won’t bum her out and
will
give her the positive vibes she apparantly desperately needs, and
genuine
love of the most friendly sort. Why she felt (and apparently still
feels)
the need to attack me personally perhaps she’ll say, but it appears she
isn’t going to, but rather will make more cracks and snips at me instead
of
writing, “hey, you know what, I was feeling irritable so I lashed out
and
I
apologize Preston,” or something along those lines. Instead she’s
changing
the subject with a totally off-topic advertisment and continuing in her
unfriendly tone towards me.
Ahh, why am I bothering wasting my time and energy with this? Why do
I
care what Paula thinks? I don’t actually, at least not much, but don’t
enjoy
meaness or hatred or anger either, so would like to resolve this little
disagreement and move on.
BTW, how is Jeff doing? I have been and still am sending him strong
thoughts and vibes, knowing how hard his current situation can be and
feeling for him all the way. He is to be commended and honored for
taking
this step and deserves all the kudos he can take for having done this.
That
goes for you as well Rachel, in that anyone who stands by their loved
one
through thick and thin, despite what we’re told we’re to feel about
druggies
and addicts by the mainstream prohibitionist types, is honorable and
beautiful and has my respect.

Peace and love to all,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rachel Radhakrishna” <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:31 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] deep breath

Paula is not a lurker.  Maybe you were on a tear and
oblivous when she introduced us to her dilemma out in
western Canada and the nurse who keeps putting off her
ibo treatment, or the depressing 12-step group of
relapsers.  But she is not coming out of nowhere.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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From: “roxieseattle” <roxieseattle@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] deep breath
Date: December 3, 2004 at 4:28:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi pp: i’m a new listerenr(lurker?) on this site. i’ve not checked back in
since thanksgiving and found myself moved fairly early on in my
chronological review of postings to say that i LOVED the william burrough’s
poem, and i think everyone made too big a deal about rachel’s post (it was
quite obviously a pissy: #speak no evil to me, cause i’m way too close to
the black whole of depression and i need to vent a little rage in order to
rise above it); but i also loved your reply.

roxie
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 7:56 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] deep breath

Thanks Rachel,
Yes, I did miss her (the friendly and supportive Paula) introducing
herself to the list here.
I didn’t miss her extra-unfriendly and unsupportive note of yesterday
though, and as I had apparently missed her previous post(s) I did think
her
a lurker (but now see she’s a drinker, and from my own personal experience
find many -not all- drinkers the least friendly people I know, at least
when
they are “problem” drinkers, so perhaps I can put her oh-so friendly and
supportive response to my Burroughs note down to that). Thanks kindly for
setting me straight.
I wasn’t on a “tear” nor have I been on a “tear” in quite some time.
My
use patterns don’t involve “tears” (well, depending on how one prounounces
that word, as I do at time, more often than I care to, experience awfully
wet tears) or at the least haven’t involved “tears” as I myself would use
the term for almost 8 years now. I may very well have been “oblivious” but
when dealing with hundreds of emails every single day (no exaggeration
whatsoever), seeing as my “job” entails my being online all day every day
reading emails and other stuff too, I do occasionally miss a missive here
and there, so I apologize to you and to Paula for mislabling her a
“lurker.”
How about “new subscriber” or “new member of the ibogaine list” or “just
arrived recently to this list and doesn’t know me or many people here at
all
so far as I know so attacking me for posting a fairly normal, regular,
uncontroversial note considering the usual fare here is unusual and took
me
aback.” Does that fit better Rachel?
I also sincerely wish Paula luck and good vibes in her travails with
that nurse putting off her ibogaine treatment. But now I’m really
confused-
was Paula giving us a happy tale, or what? I mean, was her report about
the
ibogaine postponement somehow a happy, positive note, along with that
“depressing” 12-step relapse meeting mention?
I understand that people, myself included, can sometimes fly off the
handle and write really mean notes to strangers online, it being very easy
for some to do so what with the anonymity inherent in emailing others (and
for others who are simply mean people at heart), but I didn’t appreciate
her
little missive to me at all, and found myself really hurt by the
surprising
attack on me from someone I still consider a stranger. Why I let it hurt
me
so much I don’t know- perhaps I was simply tired and sore and in pain and
not at my best.
And now I feel really bad, in that I’ve now searched and found other
notes from Paula (a grand total of 4), and am very surprised and more
hurt,
in that she posted that really cool (and totally off-topic note- two out
of
4 posts are off topic? LOL! That’s helpful in my own quest for a better
life
and happier times) note the other day about the Nuclear Kittens needing
homes, the note I sent out to family and friends and fellow cat lovers all
over the world (having 9 of the little rescued beasties sharing our teeny
LES apartment here- so yes, that post was certainly helpful in my own
personal quest towards happiness and joy), and laughed very hard at when
first seeing. I had a real soft spot for the person that sent that,
automatically feeling real kinship towards anyone who posts positive or
funny notes about cats, but not knowing it was Paula who has done so, it
didn’t color my reaction to her nasty note of yesterday, and now that I
know
it’s the same person, I’m really bummed out that someone I actually had
been
thinking loving, friendly thoughts towards until yesterday has now totally
changed the impression I had of her, with just . Out of the four notes
she’s
so far posted that I can find in my box, one was a gripe about how
miserable
she is, one was an attack note towards me, one was that very funny and
appreciated kittens note previously mentioned, and now the “what the
bleep”
advert in which she makes some crack about brain cells. So as near as I
can
tell, to Paula it’s Paula who is important and the rest (well, that’s not
really true, it’s so far just me as near as I can tell) who have the gall
to
post something not so positive can take a hike, or something. I think it
very funny that two of her four notes to the ibogaine list so far posted,
replying directly to my own posts, have contained cracks about thinking
(one
directly and one obliquely) at me, a guy who uses his braincells for a
living. What is up with that?
I’m not that impressed at all.
But I do still wish her, very sincerely as hard as it might be for me
to
do so at the moment as irritated as I’ve let myself get over her notes and
attitude towards me personally, positive thoughts, best of luck in kicking
that alcohol habit, finding a room or help that won’t bum her out and will
give her the positive vibes she apparantly desperately needs, and genuine
love of the most friendly sort. Why she felt (and apparently still feels)
the need to attack me personally perhaps she’ll say, but it appears she
isn’t going to, but rather will make more cracks and snips at me instead
of
writing, “hey, you know what, I was feeling irritable so I lashed out and
I
apologize Preston,” or something along those lines. Instead she’s changing
the subject with a totally off-topic advertisment and continuing in her
unfriendly tone towards me.
Ahh, why am I bothering wasting my time and energy with this? Why do I
care what Paula thinks? I don’t actually, at least not much, but don’t
enjoy
meaness or hatred or anger either, so would like to resolve this little
disagreement and move on.
BTW, how is Jeff doing? I have been and still am sending him strong
thoughts and vibes, knowing how hard his current situation can be and
feeling for him all the way. He is to be commended and honored for taking
this step and deserves all the kudos he can take for having done this.
That
goes for you as well Rachel, in that anyone who stands by their loved one
through thick and thin, despite what we’re told we’re to feel about
druggies
and addicts by the mainstream prohibitionist types, is honorable and
beautiful and has my respect.

Peace and love to all,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rachel Radhakrishna” <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:31 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] deep breath

Paula is not a lurker.  Maybe you were on a tear and
oblivous when she introduced us to her dilemma out in
western Canada and the nurse who keeps putting off her
ibo treatment, or the depressing 12-step group of
relapsers.  But she is not coming out of nowhere.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr>
Subject: [Ibogaine] I would like to be removed from your mailing list
Date: December 3, 2004 at 5:06:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would like to be removed from your mailing list since i receive about 30
mails a day . Something i did nor intend at all

Thanks in advance

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 3, 2004 at 1:33:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you so much, Howard!  From what I’ve heard, I value your opinion.  I
guess I’ll just have to try my best and suffer through it, I suppose.

Martee & Ms. Iboga, also thank you!  I have spoken to my providers that I’ll
be working with this weekend, who also say no, so I have given up the
Naltrexone idea completely.  From what all involved say, I should not
experience even a tenth of what I did the first time.  And from the sounds
of it, what I will experience I’ll be able to handle.  I was a heroin addict
for goodness sake, so lack of energy at least won’t be new.  After all, I
made a career out of my habit, I can’t expect overnight miracles.  And I’m
willing to do the necessary work.  Hopefully some of you will be there for
me if, and when, I need you when I return, and I hope I’ll be able to do the
same for some of you in the future.

I’ll tell all of you all about my first experience (and my second!) when I
return, but I’ll leave you with this about my first time around: I was
indeed told to go on Methadone before my treatment, and actually didn’t do
it immediately when told to weeks beforehand.  Instead I waited until a few
days beforehand and during travel.  I was told they didn’t feel comfortable
with me being on something illegal, even though I kept asking which would be
better on mind and body regardless of legality.  Eventually I was told there
would be no difference.  I received no boosters at all, even though I asked
for some more.  I was given the same initial dosage as everyone else in my
group, no matter what our habits were, our sex, or our weight.  Almost the
entire group felt very mislead about several things about the program.  My
‘providers’ were very well respected and have been mentioned extensively on
this list.  Enough said.  I’m sure you all know who by now, but for those of
you who may not have guessed, read my experience diary when I return after
the 15th, if you’re interested.  I’ll definitely post it!

Take care, and no matter your beliefs, please pray for me Sunday… I need
all the help I can get!!!!
Beatrice

BTW, I don’t know if this matters or not, but I’m a smoker.  I don’t shoot
or sniff, I smoke, and for 8-10 years I always have.

On 12/2/04 2:40 PM, “HSLotsof@aol.com” <HSLotsof@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 12/2/04 1:59:29 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

<< Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those

of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.

My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7

days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body

out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and

after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the

most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could

sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! >>

If you are feeling bad naltrexone will make you feel worse.  I would be very
skeptical about doing naltrexone less then 14 days post ibogaine.

Howard

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 1:02:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

And hurry up, I want to buy a Cadillac eldorado and explete (Hehheh oops) the planets resources a helluva lot faster.
Oh gawd, give me some Rivitrals and off I go blah blah blah.
Sorry!!!!!
Luff n hugz n chocolate
Kirk
PS I think I was trying to say “Deplete”. And not explete as earlier typod. Pleae forgive any errors, as I am new to this Pasteurised business.
Fanks peeps
Kirk

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:57:09 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The newer people talking about demonic possession I am wondering if
you’re serious? The excorist rundown is that your opinion on drug
addiction or demons? No disrespect to you I’m only wondering if you are
kidding. I will take a guess that the answer is no, you’re not kidding
🙂

Hey there, I wasn’t joking, but then again I wasn’t talking demonic possession.  Like the sixth sense movie “I feel dead people”. Hmm, didn’t mean that to sound perverse! Lol
To my understanding (I omit the word “believe”…see the word “lie” in the word believe, that means to believe something you have to lie to youself until you do! Lol)
Ah, where wuzz eye?  Ok, to my understanding, we die, our energy buggers off outta the physical and goes wherever.  Not always to where it’s meant to go.  Sometimes hangs around planet earth and us living hooman beans.  Some don’t think that a “lost soul” can affect our auras or moods etc, but, and I guess it’s all debatable as to the validity of my experience, but I know what happened to me, and the knowledge the healer had of the situation was limited, but accurate, and even though I didn’t know what to expect, the results were excellent.
But, I’,m not trying to convince anyone, just to clarify that I wasn’t talking demons, just the lost and confused dead peoples.
I am in fact ONPR, Of No Particular Religion.  Some are more fascinating than others, some are just hilarious and others are simply evil.  So ya wanna join my ONPR group??? Please send donations of $1,000 or more to Pasterized captain kirk @ c/o New Zealand and the ONPR Missionary of Otago.
And hurry up, I want to buy a Cadillac eldorado and explete the planets resources a helluva lot faster.
Oh gawd, give me some Rivitrals and off I go blah blah blah.
Sorry!!!!!
Luff n hugz n chocolate
Kirk

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:37:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sounds like your providers are not really experienced in what they were attempting to do.  It sounds like you had the beginning of a session(which seems took too long to get under way) and I also experienced withdrawl after initial trip of 4 hours.  That’s what boosters and xtra days are for.  There is a difference between the aftermath of an ibogaine session where you have fatigue, a few chills, sneezes and insomnia(on a scale of 1-100 of withdrawl pain I’d say 5-10 at most) and an incomplete session, which sounds like what you had.  Also it’s possible to mistake the afteraffects of the ibogaine as slight withdrawl.   If you have no energy for weeks, so what. In comparison to screwing up the rest of your life and all the past damage done, what’s a week or 2 or 3 of rest compared to your salvation? My instincts shout out a big NO to the naltrexone.  I don’t think any drugs that screw with the brain that you just rinsed clean and given a new beginning to can benefit from that crap!  I also for the life of me(unless I misunderstand) can’t imagine why someone would tell you to go from heroin to methedone before your session.  Do you know that old remark about getting your knowhow from a crackerjack box?  Just my opinion.
Hope you find your way.  This can be an the experience of a lifetime if you just do a little more research and don’t let your fears dupe you into doing something destructive.
Martee

—– Original Message —–
From: Beatrice Blue
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…

Thank you, Preston, for any feedback at all.

When I quit cold turkey, I did it for both my mother and my boyfriend.  Not myself.  Which was a bad move because, every time I’ve tried to quit on my own afterwards, I knew what to expect and how bad it would be.  Should’ve just waited until I was ready.  I知 more than ready now.  Doing it for me now.  Have taken lots of steps to give me the best possible chances.  Prepared for this for the last year or more.  But I’m really not good with pain, and I want my chances to be as good as possible, even if it means going through a few hours of excruciating pain with the Naltrexone.  When I had finished my last Ibogaine trip, I had been extremely sick for 4 days prior (my ‘provider’ detoxed me greatly, to the point of convulsions) and then after not getting enough, I was in pain again for 4 or 5 days afterwards before I gave up.  It was so bad it was almost as if I hadn’t done the Ibogaine at all.  No feelings as reported by others.  In those 9 days, I had maybe 4 hours of comfort while I was peaking, then I could actually feel the Ibogaine subside and the sickness coming back.  Then my legs started again shortly thereafter.  If I am again going to be even close to that bad, I don稚 know if I can make it.  I have many clean, loving people around me that will be there to watch over and protect me, but for weeks???  I am just looking for options.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

On 12/2/04 11:26 AM, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…>My question is if I am
> still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7 days, can I use Naltrexone
> (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body out???  A few years ago I
> quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and after 3 days clean, he
> gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the most horrible
> imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could sleep, I felt
> wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! <
>
> But Beatrice, you eventually went back to using apparently, so why torture
> yourself with Naltrexone? Why not just give your body a few more days or
> even weeks to flush itself out? You may, come to think of it, suffer for a
> shorter period of time, which I guess now that I think about it is probably
> what you’re after, but it will sure suck, if I imagine correctly and your
> own description holds water, and I see no reason to think it doesn’t.
>   I can’t actually answer your question, so I apologize for hitting you
> with another question as a responce, but I’m curious.
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Beatrice Blue
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:58 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
>
>
> Wonder if I’m doing this correctly, but here goes.  Been a member for
> awhile, but haven’t posted before.
>
> Anyway, I went through one Ibogaine session some time ago.  Very
> unsuccessful.  According to others, some here, some elsewhere, I was
> drastically under dosed.  Going in again in a few days.  REALLY want this to
> be successful this time.  Habit includes heroin and a past Methadone run,
> which ended over a month ago now.  Only used it two days then.  Was on
> heroin only for two months before, and before that Methadone only used once
> a week for 6-10 months (ended three months ago).  Knew Methadone was real
> bad, so had changed back to strictly heroin in preparation for Ibogaine, but
> provider told me to go back to Methadone, which is the cause of the 2 day
> usage.
>
> Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those
> of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.
> My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7
> days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body
> out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and
> after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the
> most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could
> sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT!
>
> That’s for any advice…
> Beatrice
>
>
>
> /]=———————————————————————=[¥
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> ¥]=———————————————————————=[/
>
>

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:24:38 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that like with a lot of what patrick says its a joke that isn’t
a joke… I haven’t done nearly enough drugs to understand all of it 😉
Except he is legion, or was legion.

http://www.nndb.com/people/552/000025477/
http://www.textfiles.com/bbs/MINDVOX/

Patrick is like Dr. Seuss on acid, darth vader on acid, what happens if
you pushed william burroughs into a pool of acid, a lot of quotes about
him that include the word acid. Patrick’s brain is floating in lsd.
Call me sick but I know what he’s talking about some of the time. I
know what Dave Hunter is talking about some of the time.

The newer people talking about demonic possession I am wondering if
you’re serious? The excorist rundown is that your opinion on drug
addiction or demons? No disrespect to you I’m only wondering if you are
kidding. I will take a guess that the answer is no, you’re not kidding
🙂

.:vector:.

— The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:

So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am legion… ” 🙂

Father John J. Nicola could you tell you more about this true story:
he
was
the advisor for the movie.

The true story began in January 1949 and involved a 13-year-old boy
named
Robbie who lived with his parents and grandmother in Mt. Rainier,
Maryland.
Robbie was very close to his aunt who visited the family frequently
from St.
Louis, Missouri. She was a medium and attempted to communicate with
the
spirit world. Not only did she spark Robbie’s interest in this
practice, she
also taught him how to use the Ouija board and so on and so on…
…The
house was destroyed to the ground later.

Anyway,  Patrick it’s all matter of beliefs. 30 % of the Bishop in
the
catholic church don’t believe in possession.
You are not the only one. You have people who believe even that  they

are
God. What ever float your boat.
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

It’s all-good, I am legion.

Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid of that which
is
best in yourself; no, wait, nevermind, Nietzsche already said that,
d’oh!

Good, evil, right, wrong, this ‘n that, are all abstractions and
points
of view.  I go dark, I resonate with light, spin, spin, spin,
nonduality, Purple Shit; all are one, one is all, I am that.
Everything all at once.

Life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of mirrors, warped
reflections, and distorted projections.

Heaven, Hell, good, bad, right, wrong, love, hate, it’s not out
there,
it’s in here.  It’s ALL YOU, because you’re just that important.
You’re a walking universe

“Fighting” what is just a part of you, never worked out for me;
your
milage may vary.  Acceptance, integration, freedom, liberation,
Godhead.

I love my hate,

Patrick

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__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

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From: “Lorenzo” <lorenzo-aguila@excite.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 3, 2004 at 12:08:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you this was very beautiful. For a madman you have a lot of wisdom 🙂 Even if you never answer email 🙁

Cheers
Lorenzo

— On Thu 12/02, Patrick K.Kroupa < digital@phantom.com > wrote:

It’s all-good, I am legion.

Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid of that which is best in yourself; no, wait, nevermind, Nietzsche already said that, d’oh!

Good, evil, right, wrong, this ‘n that, are all abstractions and points  of view.  I go dark, I resonate with light, spin, spin, spin,  nonduality, Purple Shit; all are one, one is all, I am that.   Everything all at once.  Life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of mirrors, warped  reflections, and distorted projections.  Heaven, Hell, good, bad, right, wrong, love, hate, it’s not out there,  it’s in here.  It’s ALL YOU, because you’re just that important.   You’re a walking universe “Fighting” what is just a part of you, never worked out for me; your milage may vary.  Acceptance, integration, freedom, liberation, Godhead.

I love my hate,

Patrick

_______________________________________________
Join Excite! – http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:50:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So you’ve seen the movie the Exorcist : ” I am legion… ” 🙂

Father John J. Nicola could you tell you more about this true story: he was
the advisor for the movie.

The true story began in January 1949 and involved a 13-year-old boy named
Robbie who lived with his parents and grandmother in Mt. Rainier, Maryland.
Robbie was very close to his aunt who visited the family frequently from St.
Louis, Missouri. She was a medium and attempted to communicate with the
spirit world. Not only did she spark Robbie’s interest in this practice, she
also taught him how to use the Ouija board and so on and so on… …The
house was destroyed to the ground later.

Anyway,  Patrick it’s all matter of beliefs. 30 % of the Bishop in the
catholic church don’t believe in possession.
You are not the only one. You have people who believe even that  they are
God. What ever float your boat.
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

It’s all-good, I am legion.

Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid of that which is
best in yourself; no, wait, nevermind, Nietzsche already said that,
d’oh!

Good, evil, right, wrong, this ‘n that, are all abstractions and points
of view.  I go dark, I resonate with light, spin, spin, spin,
nonduality, Purple Shit; all are one, one is all, I am that.
Everything all at once.

Life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of mirrors, warped
reflections, and distorted projections.

Heaven, Hell, good, bad, right, wrong, love, hate, it’s not out there,
it’s in here.  It’s ALL YOU, because you’re just that important.
You’re a walking universe

“Fighting” what is just a part of you, never worked out for me; your
milage may vary.  Acceptance, integration, freedom, liberation,
Godhead.

I love my hate,

Patrick

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:02:12 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“I”, for I am.
“B” for Belonging.
“O” for Olympics.
“G” for Generation.
“A” for Admiration.
“I” for Illusion.
“N” for Nobility.
“E” Everlasting.

Pay attention to the logic at hand and joy over the contemplation.

“I” am a self-sustaining species who “BELONGS” to the glory of the self: “OLIMPICS” of the soul, for the “GENERATION” of emulation, rather than imitation; to admire by way of bliss; with no self-doubt as in “ILLUSION” of mind, by way of God who stands for “NOBILITY”: the “EVERLASTING” soul, like the Idol of two-thousand years and counting.

Who is out there to furfill the puzzle?
Raphael ” The philosopher ”

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Patrick from ron(OT)
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:49:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <digital@phantom.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i see and hear things others don’t. problem?  want my vitae?  probably not since that involves me and not you, but thanks for the help which is what i was seeking when i  landed  here in the first place and apologies for the personal note. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Patrick from ron(OT)

On Dec 2, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Ron Davis wrote:

.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:11:14 -0600
Patrick: Thanks for the helpful advice. Tried clicking heels, didn’t work nor did your other down home remedies. not really looking for TwicE tHe FuN, and double the joy nor argument. As you have so insightfully discovered in light of my admissions(or on your own), i’m not the sharpest tack in the box.to answer your question: ” Why am i signed up for the list and digest, simultaneously–like all at once for instance….” probably the same reason that got me here in the first place..

Makes perfect nonSense to me.  Ron, since you seem to be reading and writing to the list with no particular problem, and cannot get the digests open, I’ve just removed you from the digest list.  There’s nuthin’ in ’em, ‘cept what you’re reading and replying to, right here, right now…

Patrick

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From: Cvolchkovaa@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] removeme
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:47:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

removemefromlist

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Patrick from ron(OT)
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:25:53 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Dec 2, 2004, at 3:12 PM, Ron Davis wrote:

.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:11:14 -0600
Patrick: Thanks for the helpful advice. Tried clicking heels, didn’t work nor did your other down home remedies. not really looking for TwicE tHe FuN, and double the joy nor argument. As you have so insightfully discovered in light of my admissions(or on your own), i’m not the sharpest tack in the box.to answer your question: ” Why am i signed up for the list and digest, simultaneously–like all at once for instance….” probably the same reason that got me here in the first place..

Makes perfect nonSense to me.  Ron, since you seem to be reading and writing to the list with no particular problem, and cannot get the digests open, I’ve just removed you from the digest list.  There’s nuthin’ in ’em, ‘cept what you’re reading and replying to, right here, right now…

Patrick

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From: Dana Beal <dana@phantom.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Federal 10th Circuit Upholds Ayahuasca
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:28:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To all our relations.
Greetings in the name of the most high, Jah Rastafari, ever faithful, ever sure, Jah Rastafari.
One Love Brethren.

Well Brethren this has been an exciting week.  We learned of the UDV Church victory at the Federal 10th Circuit Court of Appeals en banc on a 10 to 3 vote.  Now we learn below that the Ashcroft has appealed that government loss to the Supreme Court.  Should the Supreme’s pick it up, and uphold it, that will hold for the entire nation.

A word of caution here.  The UDV Case is primarily about the status of the church to demand a preliminary injunction against the government prior to a final trial on the issues of whether or not the Schedule I drug DMT can be prohibited for church use.

It will be relatively easy for the Supremes to take this up and turn it down on the simple proposition that the government should not be injuncted against without a full trial on the issues of the dangers of the DMT.  That will put the church back at trial on the issues before they can obtain relief.  This could set back the church for another couple of years without effecting the final church victory at all.  So, be cautious about this victory – it is a lawyers victory at this point and can easily be turned asunder.

But inspite of all that, first we have the transcript of the Supreme Court oral arguments on the Raich case.  What a find.  We won’t have to speculate anymore about what the judges said, here it is word for word.

Enjoy Brethren, for Victory is ours as we stand on the Rock of Truth in Jah’s light.

One Love  revtombrown

PS thanks to Rev. David Jacks of Northern Lights Church for these citations.

_____________________________________________________________

Angel Raich vs. Ashcroft Supreme Court oral argument transcript.

http://lsolum.blogspot.com/archives/2004_11_01_lsolum_archive.html#110176

Dean Becker
281-752-9198
KPFT, Pacifica Radio
419  Lovett Blvd.
Houston, Tx. 77006
________________________________________________________________________

Supreme Court urged to block hallucinogenic tea in church
Tea from the Amazon at center of dispute
Wednesday, December 1, 2004 Posted: 5:22 PM EST (2222 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Bush administration asked the Supreme Court on Wednesday to stop a New Mexico church from using hallucinogenic tea while the government appeals a decision backing the church.

The government has been in a long-running legal fight with the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal over hoasca tea, brewed from plants found in the Amazon River Basin.

The church won a preliminary injunction in a lower court, and justices were asked to intervene.

“Compliance with the injunction would force the United States to go into violation of an international treaty designed to prevent drug trafficking worldwide, which could have both short- and long-term foreign relations costs and could impair the policing of transnational drug trafficking involving the most dangerous controlled substances,” acting Solicitor General Paul Clement wrote in a court filing.

The 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, Colorado, has found that the church probably has a religious-freedom right to use the tea.

The church’s leader had sued after federal agents raided his office in Santa Fe in 1999 and seized 30 gallons of hoasca tea. The tea contains DMT, a controlled substance.

The Bush administration already has one drug appeal at the Supreme Court. Justices heard arguments earlier this week in that case, which asks whether the federal government can prosecute patients who smoke marijuana on doctors’ orders and in states that have medical marijuana laws.

The case is Ashcroft v. O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal, A-469.

__________________________________________________________________________

Federal 10th Circuit Court of Appeals
En Banc Upholds Religious Hoasca Use
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/363/udv.shtml

A New Mexico-based branch of a Brazilian church that uses an Amazonian psychedelic in its ceremonies has for the third time fended off the federal government’s attempt to ban the practice in the United States. In a November 10 ruling, the full US 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver affirmed a ruling by a three-judge panel of the same court last year upholding a US district court decision granting a preliminary injunction barring the government from interfering in the religious use of the drug.

The ruling came in a case that originated in 1999, when US Customs agents raided the US headquarters of the Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal (UDV — Union of the Vegetable) in Santa Fe and seized 30 gallons of hoasca, a tea brewed from two plants found only in the Amazon. The government argued that because the preparation contained naturally occurring traces of the powerful psychedelic DMT ( a Schedule I drug like LSD ). Hoasca is a drug regulated by the Controlled Substances Act.

Customs picked on the wrong people. The US branch of the UDV is headed by Jeffrey Bronfman, heir to the Seagram’s whiskey fortune, who promptly sued for relief, claiming violations of the First Amendment and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Every court that has heard the case has now agreed that, like peyote use in the Native American Church, the sacramental use of hoasca by the UDV is protected by the act.

Under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, the government must show a compelling interest in interfering with a religious practice. In the case of substances used for religious purposes, the government must also show that the practice is risky to the health of participants and that it would lead to substantial leakage of the drug use into non-protected groups (i.e. just regular people). As US District Court Judge James Parker found in his initial ruling in favor of the UDV, “the Government has not shown that applying the [Controlled Substance Act’s]  prohibition on DMT to the UDV’s use of hoasca furthers a compelling interest. This Court cannot find, based on the evidence presented by the parties, that the government has proven that hoasca poses a serious health risk to members of the UDV who drink the tea in a ceremonial setting. Further, the Government has not shown that permitting members of the UDV to consume hoasca would lead to significant diversion of the substance to non-religious use.”

In its decision last week, the 10th Circuit reaffirmed that finding and upheld the issuance of a preliminary injunction barring the federal government from interfering. While this ruling merely affirms the two previous rulings, there is a significant difference: Now, the UDV will actually be able to start doing its hoasca ceremonies again. According to an e-mail from Bronfman to supporters, that could happen as soon as Thanksgiving.

“The District Court’s order requires the DEA register our church as a legal importer and distributor of our sacrament, before we begin holding our ceremonies. Up until now they have not done this pending the outcome of their appeal,” wrote Bronfman. “Although it is still possible that the Solicitor General and the Justice Department may now ask the United States Supreme Court to rehear their case, that is the last recourse they have left. We are hopeful now that three different courts have all reviewed the evidence and testimony (and all have reached the same conclusion in our favor) that the Supreme Court will allow this preliminary ruling to stand.”

Read, forward and print the US 10th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling at:

http://pacer.ca10.uscourts.gov/pdf/02-2323.pdf

From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:17:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Dec 2, 2004, at 9:52 PM, Carla Barnes wrote:

That was beautiful you dickhead 😉 Why don’t you
write more often? You and Hattie both ignore your
email, you’re both doing whatever your doing together
😉

Everybody is highly busy at the moment.  Sum cool new shit will be published in the near future.

Can you at least answer the dosing about women? I know

Not really, there are way too many variables.  A <given person> who is female, is hard to deal with and freaks out when doing ibogaine.  They are sprung prior to dosing.  They are given the same dose of HCl.  Same person, same dose-range, same habit (plus or minus a few bags/dils).

They’re “hard to deal with.” … I have … no problems with chicks.  The only magic that takes place is, basically, I siddown in the same room and exist.  The end.  They calm down.  With men it’s more variable (for me), and the responses vary.  With men I usually have to do something, say something, be someone.  Just Existing is often not enough with do0dz (once again, in MY case, working with men).

Mash is mom, but come on patrick you have all the
answers and only reply to one message out of 1000 if
that?

Deborah’s data does not belong to me, it belongs to her.  Prior to working with any materials in the course of my employment, I signed so many nondisclosures my wrist hurt for a week.  I do not own the data in question.  It’s Deborah’s data.  If her publishing schedule is not to your liking, I suggest sending her some email or calling her up; I’m sure she’ll be highly receptive to hearing from you and immediately adjust her life to begin doing whatever it is that you feel she should be doing; right away, if not sooner.

Write more, I miss darth vader on acid 😉

I’m writing a lot more, just not, to lists.  I iz very busy at the moment.

Patrick

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 9:52:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That was beautiful you dickhead 😉 Why don’t you
write more often? You and Hattie both ignore your
email, you’re both doing whatever your doing together
😉

Can you at least answer the dosing about women? I know
Mash is mom, but come on patrick you have all the
answers and only reply to one message out of 1000 if
that?

Write more, I miss darth vader on acid 😉

Love to all, not sure about loving my hate I’d like to
get rid of it!

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

It’s all-good, I am legion.

Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid
of that which is
best in yourself; no, wait, nevermind, Nietzsche
already said that,
d’oh!

Good, evil, right, wrong, this ‘n that, are all
abstractions and points
of view.  I go dark, I resonate with light, spin,
spin, spin,
nonduality, Purple Shit; all are one, one is all, I
am that.
Everything all at once.

Life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of
mirrors, warped
reflections, and distorted projections.

Heaven, Hell, good, bad, right, wrong, love, hate,
it’s not out there,
it’s in here.  It’s ALL YOU, because you’re just
that important.
You’re a walking universe

“Fighting” what is just a part of you, never worked
out for me; your
milage may vary.  Acceptance, integration, freedom,
liberation,
Godhead.

I love my hate,

Patrick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 9:39:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s all-good, I am legion.

Be careful when casting out demons, lest you get rid of that which is best in yourself; no, wait, nevermind, Nietzsche already said that, d’oh!

Good, evil, right, wrong, this ‘n that, are all abstractions and points of view.  I go dark, I resonate with light, spin, spin, spin, nonduality, Purple Shit; all are one, one is all, I am that.  Everything all at once.

Life’s just like a funhouse; an endless series of mirrors, warped reflections, and distorted projections.

Heaven, Hell, good, bad, right, wrong, love, hate, it’s not out there, it’s in here.  It’s ALL YOU, because you’re just that important.  You’re a walking universe

“Fighting” what is just a part of you, never worked out for me; your milage may vary.  Acceptance, integration, freedom, liberation, Godhead.

I love my hate,

Patrick

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 8:59:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My two cents ..

I have been posseded for years by an entitie, a black old man that I collected in the French West Indies. I was coming out off a seven days fasting and I made the mistake to get drunk two days later . I took his disease and suffer from tachicardia for two years. Unfortunately the old man was a drunk and I had to fight this too, for years.  ( 15 )
I will go on an irresistible binge for two days every, six month, then every two or three months, then every month at this end every weeks. Notice that I don’t even like the taste of alcoohol. The fun part of it is that I am a white caucasian, and I had to drink only in black clubs. I used to play domino or poker with the old black and get trashed, with them lisening to some good soul music. I have been in very weird places … 🙂
After a spiritual awakening my addiction left me.

I have read about everything on the subject of possession and actualy I help some people in the removal of  disturbing entities.I have not much simpathy for spirits, ghosts, evil, or lost-souls that, rob people of their freedom and free-will.
Let me give you an example:
I just took a guy, an alcholic and crack two days ago. That was the fastest spiritual awakening I ever witness. He came to see me three days ago, pretty mean and strong always fighting in the street: even in NA and AA they where reluctant to deal with him.
I was a little scare but I knew that it was just a bad spirit. ( I called him the black-wolf) is scarest that I was so I gave him few box and ask him to come the day after.
I had a small book on Sainte Philomena’s life: the most incredible miracle worker of the church ( she started to do miracles 1 7000 after her death when they found her body in Roman’s catacumbs).
To make the story short the man who wrote the book is a Franscisan Friar named Sullivan. The crack addict name was Sullivan. I saw it at a sign and gave him the small book. I  explain to him about my concept of black wolf, white wolf; is hard to say to somebody your are possessed.
Yesterday He was another man and had cried and repent, all night He quit everything cold turkey with not  much withdraw. His wife is fliyng to pick him up. I invited him for dinner tonight and I am expecting him. The entitie ( black wolf ) run out after the reading of the life of Phylomena or understood something about is role in destroying Sullivan’ s life   Be aware, this is real…

God Bless
Francis
—– Original Message —–
From: Rachel Radhakrishna
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

I found this description of yours, Lee, quite interesting.  (And maybe you too Julie?) Because the weekend Jeff and I fell in love we had ingested a variety of entheogens, and I had a visual  experience of being part of his purification process.

As I held him he started feeling a lot of energy in his spine, like kundalini energy or something.  So I started moving my hands upwards along his back, then shaking them out from where I felt his heart center to release the vibes.  Little black-winged “entities” seemed to fly off.  Like mini-dragons with batwings.  So I tried it again, and there were even more, fluttering away.  It was as if love, and its light, could dislodge them from their perch.

I was, at that point, somewhat horrified by the sheer numbers of times he had punctured his skin — the tatoos of grief written on his body — and so may have been imaginatively primed to correlate them to his drug use.  But I think someone told me that we create holes or vulnerabilities in our aura through certain behaviors, and it certainly felt as if these “things” had taken advantage of such opportunities in his case.

Writing about all this makes me want to go burn some incense and try to clear my own energy field a bit.  We had a nice walk in the park and saw a blue jay, two loons, lots of doves and gulls, and my favorite, another hawk.  Jeff took only one bath today, which seems like a record, and says he’s feeling 65-70% of his usual self.

Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I think that anyone using ibogaine to kick a habit will initially by and large have less of a spiritual experience as the energy is fighting to clear out the addiction energy on a physical & most likely spiritual level. Perhaps addiction in some respects is also a housing of dark entities in ones soul, a kind of parasitic union where dark entities or demons cling to the vulnerability created by the addiction & work to maintain it by sucking out all the good it can?

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 8:46:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK Dave now you got me wanting to go for my spiritual journey now. I know I need to wait and finish what I started first though. Reading your description took me right back to my session. I enjoyed the hallucinations in a big way. I have to be honest. But I didn’t get into the insomnia and the like. Did you have problems like that after your first treatment?  Randy

yep. I was only getting between 2-3 hours sleep for like the first 3 weeks or so. By the time I landed back stateside I was getting 3-5 hours of sleep, it took me like 5-6 weeks B4 i got a solid 6 hours/night

I was EXTREMELY exhausted. I segued from 40mgs methadone >> Ibogaine after 12-16 hours (on top of jet lag and general un-wellness), and ralphed half that 1st dose up after 2 hours (as determined by the resident chemist by extracting 740mgs ibo base from my retch), and had to dose again 5-6 days later, the folks providing for me weren’t hip to boosters at that point, or it didn’t happen or something like that. The first dose was pretty rough, the second one was the ONE. Complete removal from the time-space continuum, and a delight for the visuals (I peaked for 18 hours), but fucking grueling none-the-less. It was in this second dose that I experienced the exorcism, among other things.

The wild thing is tho even at 12mgs/kg total ingested for the 1st dose, I resisted any methadone during the 5-6 day wait, and I had like a 3 week supply w/me. Which is pretty amazing, as shitty as i felt. there’s a photo floating around of me dumping those ‘liquid cuffs’ into the toilet after #2.

small amounts of GHB helped between #1 & #2, but i was very careful w/that stuff.

_.dh

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 8:17:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK Dave now you got me wanting to go for my spiritual journey now. I know I need to wait and finish what I started first though. Reading your description took me right back to my session. I enjoyed the hallucinations in a big way. I have to be honest. But I didn’t get into the insomnia and the like. Did you have problems like that after your first treatment?  Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Crystal Meth addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 7:55:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you Howard that gives me something to go by. At this point I have people aking about it and I would like to be as informed as I can. I’m going to recommend anyone with meth to take a good multi vitamin anyway. Best case scenario would be a nutritionist to work with them.                     Randy

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 2, 2004 at 7:13:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,

Hey, it was a spelling or keyboard error, we have all made them.  I doubt if anyone will hold you responsible for being disrespectful.  You have come a long way in a short time, you have seemed to put your life back together.  I am sure that you have the love and respect of the list.

Glad to see your doing GREAT
– JIM

Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear list,

I just realized that some of the words I use may be
taken unintentionally. I am, in no way, racist or
exclusionary, just misinformed.

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’. A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.

Please excuse my ignorance…I’m still figuring things
out…

cheers,
Julie

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Mayan calendar
Date: December 2, 2004 at 6:46:16 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thought this was interesting:-
“People will have the opportunity to start waking up this year because
on December 4, 2004, we move into the 4th day in the Mayan calendar.
This is the year of transformation of consciousness.  This does not
mean that everyone will suddenly be transformed into great light
Beings, although it does mean that many people will finally wake up.”

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] spare soul mate anyone??
Date: December 2, 2004 at 6:43:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Sniff” anyone gottah spare soul mate, I’d be muchas grassyass fanks heaps.
Kirk

Wow, reading that gave me shivers…what a beautiful
experience!

I’m so glad Jeff is doing better- I’m sure he knows
how lucky he is to have you in his life.  I’m not sure
I could have ever gotten off drugs without the help of
my soulmate, my angel, my R.

lots of love,
Julie

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 6:42:17 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wow, sounds like several experiences I have had.  I have a friend luckily who has the ability to “move” these  souls on……and in one instance she stated he was attracted to my “ifestyle”(of which my friend was unaware). I spent 3-4 weeks going out of my skull, mood swings, yelling at the air (or to “whatever” was with me) crying heaps. After my friend moved him on, I felt like a huge weight had been lifted and was bouncing off the walls.  Definitely not psychological.  When I started practising Reiki (using as well) I was constantly “harassed” in my sleep, lifted, turned, half awake and up at the ceiling ( I could hear the usual sounds outside and my partners breathing etc).  Got some friends in to do a “cleansing” of the house.  Was told they were attracted to the light we were creating thru the healing work and also lifestyle (ie drugs).
Well, just thought you might be interested in my experiences.  I’m still a skeptic, btw, I have to experience these things first! Healthy skepticism’ a must with this stuff.
Thanks for that DH
Kirk
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com] 
Sent: Friday, 3 December 2004 11:38 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction

a kind of parasitic union where dark entities or demons cling to the vulnerability created by the addiction & work to maintain it by sucking out all the good it can?
I experienced an exorcism of sorts during my ibogaine experience in 98 (represented as a heroin seductress, begging for a fix – me sending “her” away 2-3X). there are all sorts of vibrational entities that have the ability to attach to us, addiction or not. Usually they are invited in, on one level of consciousness or another. Drugs definitely open up channels for these creatures to enter, the energy of the drug (or plant, more to the point) often matching the energy of the entity(s) (the poppy spirit being dark = dark side “creatures”) – Bat Wings, claws and tentacles for sure.

With Iboga being the opposite end of the spectrum, it’s a no brainer that it works so well in dislodging (or at least interrupting) the dark stuff.

opiate = numb

iboga = aware

one of the resounding themes of my three most intense experiences was about the balance between these two forces, the light and the dark. Quite magnificently displayed in graphical representation. Kind of like a epic psychedelic Star Wars trilogy of sorts. With lots of liquid reflective melty stuff and dna geometry splattered all over everything. And how the dark stuff recedes in the “Light”.

_.dh
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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] to Jeff
Date: December 2, 2004 at 6:05:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 9:49:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:
Jeff,

It’s great to hear your voice on the forum…Welcome
back, and enjoy the rebirth…

Julie
Julie
Thanks for the kind words and wishes. You’re abeautiful part of this list and I am looking forward to hooking youand Rachel up as I feel a very strong feeling that youtwo would become fast friends.
She is truly my angel I look at her with new eyes now and see her inner beauty (and outer) more than ever I only wish she could see herself through my eyes.
again thanks good to be getting back
Freak Freely!
Jeff

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:47:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel,

Wow, reading that gave me shivers…what a beautiful
experience!

I’m so glad Jeff is doing better- I’m sure he knows
how lucky he is to have you in his life.  I’m not sure
I could have ever gotten off drugs without the help of
my soulmate, my angel, my R.

lots of love,
Julie

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:40:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 1:59:29 PM, beatriceblue@cox.net writes:

<< Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those

of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.

My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7

days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body

out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and

after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the

most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could

sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! >>

If you are feeling bad naltrexone will make you feel worse.  I would be very
skeptical about doing naltrexone less then 14 days post ibogaine.

Howard

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:37:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

a kind of parasitic union where dark entities or demons cling to the vulnerability created by the addiction & work to maintain it by sucking out all the good it can?

I experienced an exorcism of sorts during my ibogaine experience in 98 (represented as a heroin seductress, begging for a fix – me sending “her” away 2-3X). there are all sorts of vibrational entities that have the ability to attach to us, addiction or not. Usually they are invited in, on one level of consciousness or another. Drugs definitely open up channels for these creatures to enter, the energy of the drug (or plant, more to the point) often matching the energy of the entity(s) (the poppy spirit being dark = dark side “creatures”) – Bat Wings, claws and tentacles for sure.

With Iboga being the opposite end of the spectrum, it’s a no brainer that it works so well in dislodging (or at least interrupting) the dark stuff.

opiate = numb

iboga = aware

one of the resounding themes of my three most intense experiences was about the balance between these two forces, the light and the dark. Quite magnificently displayed in graphical representation. Kind of like a epic psychedelic Star Wars trilogy of sorts. With lots of liquid reflective melty stuff and dna geometry splattered all over everything. And how the dark stuff recedes in the “Light”.

_.dh

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Sexual dynamics-warning: long!!
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:30:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee, et al,

Well, in Hattie’s experience, the women were less
affected by the Ibogaine, and she postulated that this
might have something to do with the fact that she is a
woman.  I was just wondering if there was an
unconscious sexual dynamic thing going on
there…perhaps there isn’t.

I’m trying to remember what culture it is that the
common method of training spiritual initiates is
always man teaching woman, and woman teaching man…I
definitely view Ibo as a spiritual experience.
However, my Ibo provider was a woman, and I felt
connected to her.  But, I would venture to say that
she is atypical of many women I have encountered, as
are the lovely ladies I have spoken with on this list.

From a feminist perspective, many women in our North
American-dominated culture were( and still are)
socialized to be competitive with each other, rather
than supportive.  More often than not, this
competitiveness manifests itself in the
sexual/physical realm, rather than the
intellectual(this IS changing somewhat, in my
opinion), which I find quite unfortunate.  In my high
school, the girls who developed more rapidly were
often the targets of other girl’s jealousy and petty
gossip(“she’s a slut”- why? Cuz she has big
boobs??!)); in other words, they were ostracized.  In
contrast, the boys who matured the quickest were the
jocks, the studs, the dudes other guys want to be
around.

I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard some
nasty bitch insult or criticize another woman, just
based on her looks( and the fact that she feels
threatened by those looks)!  I mean, of ALL the human
characteristics to put down, why choose one that we
have little to no control over?

It is a sad fact that the dream professions of many
young girls are (a)actress or (b)supermodel, instead
of engineers, executives or university professors.
Why- because popular culture values beauty and youth
over wisdom and experience.  Both of the former
professions(a&b) are highly rooted in the physical,
and are careers that tend to emphasize the physical
while neglecting the intellectual.  In addition, those
careers are typically over by the time your mind is
truly ripe.  It makes me sick.

Many people on this list have stressed the importance
of finding a therapist you can ‘connect’ with.  But
how would you ‘define’ this connection?  Common
ground?  Shared interests?  I would be more inclined
to believe the perfect therapist is anyone who puts
you completely in balance, with their complementary
energy.  Every human being is a mixture of feminine
AND masculine energies.  The perfect therapist is one
who bolsters/improves upon your deficiencies, while
tempering your excesses.  And yes, they can be a woman
OR a man.

Wow, what a ramble!  Sorry about that, list…

Julie

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:25:55 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 11:39:58 AM, nick227@tiscali.co.uk writes:

Hi Howard,

Just for the record, JW, a 39 year old male from London, was recorded by
the
coroner as having died from “fatal reaction to iboga extract,” about 40
hours out, back in Jan 2000. Just in case anyone was thinking guys were
invulnerable.

Nick Sandberg  www.ibogaine.co.uk

Thanks Nick,

I was responding to ibogaine only fatalities but, it is certainly significant
to keep an open mind about the equality of death.

Warmest regards,

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:24:00 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 11:30:42 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:35:33 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/2/04 3:15:09 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

I wonder if female/male differences might depend on addiction
status.

We have to be very specific here.  Exactly which differences are
you talking of?

Any differences there is data for 🙂 But specifically, some say
women require more ibogaine and others say less. Is that more/less
for addiction or having a satisfying non-addiction personal
exploration without addiction present?

In my opinion there is not ample data to make a determination for either case.

Howard

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] dark entities & addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:10:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I found this description of yours, Lee, quite interesting.  (And maybe you too Julie?) Because the weekend Jeff and I fell in love we had ingested a variety of entheogens, and I had a visual  experience of being part of his purification process.

As I held him he started feeling a lot of energy in his spine, like kundalini energy or something.  So I started moving my hands upwards along his back, then shaking them out from where I felt his heart center to release the vibes.  Little black-winged “entities” seemed to fly off.  Like mini-dragons with batwings.  So I tried it again, and there were even more, fluttering away.  It was as if love, and its light, could dislodge them from their perch.

I was, at that point, somewhat horrified by the sheer numbers of times he had punctured his skin — the tatoos of grief written on his body — and so may have been imaginatively primed to correlate them to his drug use.  But I think someone told me that we create holes or vulnerabilities in our aura through certain behaviors, and it certainly felt as if these “things” had taken advantage of such opportunities in his case.

Writing about all this makes me want to go burn some incense and try to clear my own energy field a bit.  We had a nice walk in the park and saw a blue jay, two loons, lots of doves and gulls, and my favorite, another hawk.  Jeff took only one bath today, which seems like a record, and says he’s feeling 65-70% of his usual self.

Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I think that anyone using ibogaine to kick a habit will initially by and large have less of a spiritual experience as the energy is fighting to clear out the addiction energy on a physical & most likely spiritual level. Perhaps addiction in some respects is also a housing of dark entities in ones soul, a kind of parasitic union where dark entities or demons cling to the vulnerability created by the addiction & work to maintain it by sucking out all the good it can?

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions – Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 4:19:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Howard,

the other at one hour out. The third who did not
have a cardiac
disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based on
general

What exactly was the cause of death in this case? Was
it due to od?

Regarding the other (dosage based on sex). At this
stage I imagine one can only really comment on dosage
required to treat addiction. And as you say Mash has
the clinical data on that but your observations are
that less is required for females in this regard. If
you get any data from African providers that would be
interesting to see.

Lee

— slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:35:33 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com
wrote:
In a message dated 12/2/04 3:15:09 AM,
slowone@hush.ai writes:

I wonder if female/male differences might depend
on addiction
status.

We have to be very specific here.  Exactly which
differences are
you talking of?

Any differences there is data for 🙂 But
specifically, some say
women require more ibogaine and others say less. Is
that more/less
for addiction or having a satisfying non-addiction
personal
exploration without addiction present?

Howard

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:53:01 -0800 Lee Albert
<myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Thanks for the information Howard.

Julie, I don’t have enough experience to say but
I have read
Hattie Wells’s write up before with interest at
this “anomaly.”
It’s something I hope to get a better feel of
with time and
perhaps even try and get some guidance on. For
now I have verged

towards the safe end to see if the experiences
are sufficiently
powerful and rewarding at the reduced dose. I
will say this. Of
4
people I recently ran mini sessions the
experience was
psychologically more challenging for the males
than the females
who were on a 10% less dose. Yet the females
reported deep
satisfaction in what they experienced.

There is obviously something to what Hattie says
– she would not

say it otherwise. On the other hand it may be
that the females
in
my group were more open to seeing? I don’t really
know right
now.

Also, as Howard points out each person reacts
differently which
is

why I advocate: Beginners Begin Low. In this way
we can get a
better personalised picture and step up the dose
in a future
session or maybe step back depending ……….

Right now its a case of better safe than sorry. I
don’t want to
tip someone into a full session who is not
prepared for it.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM,
slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the
fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have
been
digesting vast quantities of information about
Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was
that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species
of rats and mice

show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine. As
Deborah Mash is
the

only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in
blood and has not
shared or published
that data, the question remains open. My
experience is opposite
Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that
may not be a
matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this
from African
providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine
fatalities were all
women. Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at
8mg/kg, one a four
hours out and
the other at one hour out. The third who did not
have a cardiac
disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based
on general
safety
doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as
single doses. In
continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every
hour or every few

hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be
higher than
20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any
assuredness
proper
doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and
noribogaine the
Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women
respond to doses

compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to
both sexes.
Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than
others, doses
in

some men or
some women may have different effects than in
other men or
women.
This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM,
ms_iboga@yahoo.com
writes:

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the
fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have
been
digesting vast quantities of information about
Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was
that
women generally require MORE! In the words of
Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my
experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that
women

=== message truncated ===

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:56:06 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thank you, Preston, for any feedback at all.

When I quit cold turkey, I did it for both my mother and my boyfriend.  Not myself.  Which was a bad move because, every time I’ve tried to quit on my own afterwards, I knew what to expect and how bad it would be.  Should’ve just waited until I was ready.  I’m more than ready now.  Doing it for me now.  Have taken lots of steps to give me the best possible chances.  Prepared for this for the last year or more.  But I’m really not good with pain, and I want my chances to be as good as possible, even if it means going through a few hours of excruciating pain with the Naltrexone.  When I had finished my last Ibogaine trip, I had been extremely sick for 4 days prior (my ‘provider’ detoxed me greatly, to the point of convulsions) and then after not getting enough, I was in pain again for 4 or 5 days afterwards before I gave up.  It was so bad it was almost as if I hadn’t done the Ibogaine at all.  No feelings as reported by others.  In those 9 days, I had maybe 4 hours of comfort while I was peaking, then I could actually feel the Ibogaine subside and the sickness coming back.  Then my legs started again shortly thereafter.  If I am again going to be even close to that bad, I don’t know if I can make it.  I have many clean, loving people around me that will be there to watch over and protect me, but for weeks???  I am just looking for options.

Thank you all…
Beatrice

On 12/2/04 11:26 AM, “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

> Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…>My question is if I am
> still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7 days, can I use Naltrexone
> (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body out???  A few years ago I
> quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and after 3 days clean, he
> gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the most horrible
> imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could sleep, I felt
> wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! <
>
> But Beatrice, you eventually went back to using apparently, so why torture
> yourself with Naltrexone? Why not just give your body a few more days or
> even weeks to flush itself out? You may, come to think of it, suffer for a
> shorter period of time, which I guess now that I think about it is probably
> what you’re after, but it will sure suck, if I imagine correctly and your
> own description holds water, and I see no reason to think it doesn’t.
>   I can’t actually answer your question, so I apologize for hitting you
> with another question as a responce, but I’m curious.
>
>
> Peace and love,
> Preston
>
> “Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
> mistaken for madness”
> Richard Davenport-Hines
>
>
>
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Beatrice Blue
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:58 PM
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
>
>
> Wonder if I’m doing this correctly, but here goes.  Been a member for
> awhile, but haven’t posted before.
>
> Anyway, I went through one Ibogaine session some time ago.  Very
> unsuccessful.  According to others, some here, some elsewhere, I was
> drastically under dosed.  Going in again in a few days.  REALLY want this to
> be successful this time.  Habit includes heroin and a past Methadone run,
> which ended over a month ago now.  Only used it two days then.  Was on
> heroin only for two months before, and before that Methadone only used once
> a week for 6-10 months (ended three months ago).  Knew Methadone was real
> bad, so had changed back to strictly heroin in preparation for Ibogaine, but
> provider told me to go back to Methadone, which is the cause of the 2 day
> usage.
>
> Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those
> of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.
> My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7
> days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body
> out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and
> after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the
> most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could
> sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT!
>
> That’s for any advice…
> Beatrice
>
>
>
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>
>

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:47:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Julie,
Thanks for posting this.
Lee

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi FP,

Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
Jung?  I think you would really like it.  He writes
about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
Here’s a link to a portion of the text:

http://www.near-death.com/jung.html

FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
the minimum time to replace methadone with short
acting opiates.  Like I’ve said many times, at the
25
day point, my urine was still testing positive for
methadone.  I don’t believe there is any way to feel
%100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
the receptors and flushing out of the body.

Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting
time’…instead
praise yourself that you didn’t extend your
addiction
to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is
more
common than you might expect.  Praise yourself for
the
courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.

How long have you been clean now?

Julie

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:44:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would be interested if you could expand a little on
this and enlighten us a little further?

Lee

— Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
You know, maybe Hattie was onto something when she
mentioned the interpersonal, possibly
gender-related,
causes for the woman-man dosage paradox…In some
tribal cultures, a woman can only be spiritually
trained by a man, and vice-versa…weird, huh?  Or
is
it?

Sounds like a question of balance, of ying-yang…

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT: “Stupidity” is a funny, f*cking movie
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:43:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey group,

Was just buzzing with a friend, and was reminded of a
movie I saw recently, entitled “Stupidity”…

I highly recommend this movie…It’s not going to
change the world of cinema or anything, but it gave me
quite a few belly laughs…There’s quite a big section
dedicated to George W(not to flame the fires anymore-
Faith, I’m looking in your general direction), and
also to stupid people the whole world over.

I found it very funny that many people, when
interviewed, could not actually define the word
“stupid”…kind of makes you wonder, huh?

Things that make you go HMMMMM………..

Julie

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re:Patrick from ron(OT)
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:12:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine-digest-help@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–

.

.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:11:14 -0600
Patrick: Thanks for the helpful advice. Tried clicking heels, didn’t work nor did your other down home remedies. not really looking for TwicE tHe FuN, and double the joy nor argument. As you have so insightfully discovered in light of my admissions(or on your own), i’m not the sharpest tack in the box.to answer your question: ” Why am i signed up for the list and digest, simultaneously–like all at once for instance….” probably the same reason that got me here in the first place..looking for help, not grins…must’ve hit the wrong key in my misdirected confusion.  again, thanks for the heartfelt advice, ron
i\
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From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Off List
Date: December 2, 2004 at 2:54:32 PM EST
To: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know what, I can see I’m just being overly sensitive. And I know I’ve
become far more that way since 911. It probably is just me and my bad
spelling.  Please ignore my stupidity, everyone…
Jamilah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: Off List

Hi Jamilah,

No offense intended, was just using the UK version of
‘shit’…I thought the Muslim faction’s name was
spelled Shiite….

Once again, apologies…I’ll post something to rectify
the situation…

Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 2, 2004 at 2:38:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Beatrice,

My experience with Naltrexone is limited, but my gut
reaction is saying: NO!!!!

I’ve heard Naltrexone can trigger massive bouts of
depression, because, as far as I understand, it blocks
your own natural endogenous opioids too.  Wouldn’t it
also just negate all the good stuff Ibogaine did for
you- massive serotonin release???

I could be wrong…maybe someone more qualified should
speak up…

cheers,
Julie

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 2, 2004 at 2:26:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…>My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7 days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT! <

But Beatrice, you eventually went back to using apparently, so why torture yourself with Naltrexone? Why not just give your body a few more days or even weeks to flush itself out? You may, come to think of it, suffer for a shorter period of time, which I guess now that I think about it is probably what you’re after, but it will sure suck, if I imagine correctly and your own description holds water, and I see no reason to think it doesn’t.
I can’t actually answer your question, so I apologize for hitting you with another question as a responce, but I’m curious.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: Beatrice Blue
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:58 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…

Wonder if I’m doing this correctly, but here goes.  Been a member for awhile, but haven’t posted before.

Anyway, I went through one Ibogaine session some time ago.  Very unsuccessful.  According to others, some here, some elsewhere, I was drastically under dosed.  Going in again in a few days.  REALLY want this to be successful this time.  Habit includes heroin and a past Methadone run, which ended over a month ago now.  Only used it two days then.  Was on heroin only for two months before, and before that Methadone only used once a week for 6-10 months (ended three months ago).  Knew Methadone was real bad, so had changed back to strictly heroin in preparation for Ibogaine, but provider told me to go back to Methadone, which is the cause of the 2 day usage.

Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second. My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7 days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT!

That’s for any advice…
Beatrice

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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 2, 2004 at 2:24:15 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry… THANKS for any advice, not That’s.  LOL

I know how dangerous Naltrexone can be, and have experienced it before.  If I’m willing to go through that hell, what will happen?  Should I even consider it???

Wanting to live, love and feel again so badly…
Beatrice

On 12/2/04 10:58 AM, “Beatrice Blue” <beatriceblue@cox.net> wrote:

Wonder if I’m doing this correctly, but here goes.  Been a member for awhile, but haven’t posted before.

Anyway, I went through one Ibogaine session some time ago.  Very unsuccessful.  According to others, some here, some elsewhere, I was drastically under dosed.  Going in again in a few days.  REALLY want this to be successful this time.  Habit includes heroin and a past Methadone run, which ended over a month ago now.  Only used it two days then.  Was on heroin only for two months before, and before that Methadone only used once a week for 6-10 months (ended three months ago).  Knew Methadone was real bad, so had changed back to strictly heroin in preparation for Ibogaine, but provider told me to go back to Methadone, which is the cause of the 2 day usage.

Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.  My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7 days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT!

That’s for any advice…
Beatrice

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 2, 2004 at 2:22:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve always thought it was simply the way it was pronounced with that particular accent, and others picked it up.

Peace and love,
Preston

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

Preston,

What I’m wondering is this: did the term originate as
a slur against Muslim peoples, considering the point
of origin (the London Cockney streets, slang, etc..)?

Maybe it WAS a racist slur that was just adopted by
the general populace of London, UK, Australia…It’s
never really heard on the streets here in Toronto,
unless you are a traveller, or spend a lot of time
online chatting with folks across both ponds.  That’s
how I came across the word, back in the day when I
spent some time at the Lonely Planet chat forum.
Brits and Aussies seem to say it a lot.

Hmmm, maybe I’ll do an investigation…report back
soon…

Regardless of the results, I think I’ll keep the
expression to myself while on the forum…

Julie

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 2, 2004 at 2:03:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

friends of mine and i have been using the term “shite” in reference to shit for 25 years. (pronounced shyte, not she-ite), long before the moslem/terrorist widespread panic issue of the new whirled order. and we will continue to do so.

My 2 cents,
_.d

On Thursday, December 2, 2004, at 08:50 AM, Ms Iboga wrote:

Preston,

What I’m wondering is this: did the term originate as
a slur against Muslim peoples, considering the point
of origin (the London Cockney streets, slang, etc..)?

Maybe it WAS a racist slur that was just adopted by
the general populace of London, UK, Australia…It’s
never really heard on the streets here in Toronto,
unless you are a traveller, or spend a lot of time
online chatting with folks across both ponds.  That’s
how I came across the word, back in the day when I
spent some time at the Lonely Planet chat forum.
Brits and Aussies seem to say it a lot.

Hmmm, maybe I’ll do an investigation…report back
soon…

Regardless of the results, I think I’ll keep the
expression to myself while on the forum…

Julie

__________________________________
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The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
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From: Beatrice Blue <beatriceblue@cox.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Need opinions, at this point expert or otherwise…
Date: December 2, 2004 at 1:58:18 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wonder if I’m doing this correctly, but here goes.  Been a member for awhile, but haven’t posted before.

Anyway, I went through one Ibogaine session some time ago.  Very unsuccessful.  According to others, some here, some elsewhere, I was drastically under dosed.  Going in again in a few days.  REALLY want this to be successful this time.  Habit includes heroin and a past Methadone run, which ended over a month ago now.  Only used it two days then.  Was on heroin only for two months before, and before that Methadone only used once a week for 6-10 months (ended three months ago).  Knew Methadone was real bad, so had changed back to strictly heroin in preparation for Ibogaine, but provider told me to go back to Methadone, which is the cause of the 2 day usage.

Anyway, after I get back from this successful run, I will share with those of you that are interested both my first experience and then this second.  My question is if I am still feeling mild withdrawals and bad after 5-7 days, can I use Naltrexone (Revia), to push whatever may be left in my body out???  A few years ago I quit cold turkey at home with a doctors help, and after 3 days clean, he gave me Naltrexone, which made the next 3-5 hours the most horrible imaginable, but after it was done… It was done!  I could sleep, I felt wonderful, I felt clean… I FELT!

That’s for any advice…
Beatrice

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 2, 2004 at 1:50:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

What I’m wondering is this: did the term originate as
a slur against Muslim peoples, considering the point
of origin (the London Cockney streets, slang, etc..)?

Maybe it WAS a racist slur that was just adopted by
the general populace of London, UK, Australia…It’s
never really heard on the streets here in Toronto,
unless you are a traveller, or spend a lot of time
online chatting with folks across both ponds.  That’s
how I came across the word, back in the day when I
spent some time at the Lonely Planet chat forum.
Brits and Aussies seem to say it a lot.

Hmmm, maybe I’ll do an investigation…report back
soon…

Regardless of the results, I think I’ll keep the
expression to myself while on the forum…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (OT) Re: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 2, 2004 at 1:34:59 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.<

I too got a friendly note not so long ago calling my attention to this when I too wrote “shite” and I thought I’d explained to my friend that it was in no way a reference to their religion or ethnicity or them in any way at all whatsoever, that it was an extremely common way to say “shit” in Great Britain. I guess I didn’t make it clear enough if they are still feeling uncomfortable with that word.
Shite honestly and to goodnessly hasn’t a single thing to do with Shiites, promise. It never has and never will unless someone is misspelling Shiite in their writing but then I imagine it would be pretty obvious that something wasn’t right, right?
So please, to that person who feels uncomfortable when seeing the word “shite,” relax, everything is ok, it’s not ever directed at you and your religious views at all, certainly not in my own case and I imagine never when shite is used in place of shit- it’s a slang word that isn’t in any way related to religion- unless of course one holds a dim view of religions in general, then it may be used as an adjective I suppose, but …etc.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 11:56 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness

Dear list,

I just realized that some of the words I use may be
taken unintentionally.  I am, in no way, racist or
exclusionary, just misinformed.

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.

Please excuse my ignorance…I’m still figuring things
out…

cheers,
Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 12:10:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You know, maybe Hattie was onto something when she
mentioned the interpersonal, possibly gender-related,
causes for the woman-man dosage paradox…In some
tribal cultures, a woman can only be spiritually
trained by a man, and vice-versa…weird, huh?  Or is
it?

Sounds like a question of balance, of ying-yang…

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 12:07:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FP,

Have you read “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”, by
Jung?  I think you would really like it.  He writes
about a near death experience he had, and I swear to
God, it almost sounded like an Iboga experience.
Here’s a link to a portion of the text:

http://www.near-death.com/jung.html

FP, I would now venture to say that 4 WEEKS would be
the minimum time to replace methadone with short
acting opiates.  Like I’ve said many times, at the 25
day point, my urine was still testing positive for
methadone.  I don’t believe there is any way to feel
%100 better when the opiates are still breaking off
the receptors and flushing out of the body.

Don’t beat yourself up about ‘wasting time’…instead
praise yourself that you didn’t extend your addiction
to reach 15, even 20 years- which I understand is more
common than you might expect.  Praise yourself for the
courage to kick the monkey in the ass, FP.

How long have you been clean now?

Julie

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] apologies for unintentional rudeness
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:56:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear list,

I just realized that some of the words I use may be
taken unintentionally.  I am, in no way, racist or
exclusionary, just misinformed.

When I use the term ‘shite’, I do so because I am
thinking of the Cockneyed manner of saying ‘shit’.  A
kind friend brought it to my attention that it might
be perceived as a racial slur against Shiite Muslims,
which I can honestly say, that it wasn’t.

Please excuse my ignorance…I’m still figuring things
out…

cheers,
Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie)
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:55:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie:  i  would avoid benzos to stabilize sleep.  that is what led to my current situation with them and hence the list.  just one schmuck’s opinion, i’m no expert but they can be dangerous.  ron
—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Dear Fake Placebo,

Yeah, it’s almost as if opiates give us ‘tolerance’-
the tolerance to put up with situations that would
otherwise drive us out of our mind.  Religious dogma
does that to me.  It just seems so xenophobic,
exclusionist, UGLY, that I can’t help but think that
if GOD really exists, IT must be very angry with us
sometimes.  All these selfish wankers nowadays(Bush
included), twisting/distorting the words of Jesus or
other prophets to serve their own aims….it makes me
truly nauseous.

But anyways…did you come off methadone or H?  I
think you said you were using dope, right?  That would
probably explain the shorter duration of residual
withdrawal, as methadone takes much longer to break
down, tear off the receptors, and be excreted.  And
the sleep disturbances- well, FakeP, that might take a
while to stabilize.  I still wake up numerous times
every night- in fact, last night I awoke at 3:30am,
and couldn’t get back to sleep until 5:30.  If I were
you, I’d stay away from the benzos- nothing like
artificial sleep to make your body feel like shite.

If you do decide to continue using benzos, take them
earlier…Weed is OK, but it’s effects don’t seem to
last very long, in terms of sleepiness.  May I ask how
much H you were using?  And for how long?

I also found reading to be a helpful tool…television
is alright (kind of the adult’s pacifier), but books-
oh god, I could feel the new synapses being laid down.
I’ve been reading some pretty cool metaphysical stuff
(think Carlos Castenada and his ilk), and at the 6 or
8 week mark, I celebrated my birthday with a tab (or
two) of XTC…even though I crashed afterwards, I felt
the effects really gave my healing ‘evolution’ a sharp
kick in the ass.

Still clean, only burning occassional spliffs.  I feel
great, emancipated, and I want to spread the word
about Iboga to the other unfortunate souls still
trapped in the ‘gridlock’…like Randy said, the
bussier you keep yourself, the less time you will have
to worry about any discomfort you might be feeling..

cheers,
Julie 🙂

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:48:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very good and interesting advice. As one gets older, fasting can
lead to what seems like unhealthy exhaustion, so from 40’s on I
suggest fasting only 4-8 hours pre-iboga. At least try to eat well
in the days before 🙂 Some people recommend drinking a lot of
water over time before iboga, and I plan to try this sometime. I
like to keep something by the bed to pee or vomit into.

sprinkling of humility

🙂

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 05:24:07 -0800 Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
HI Sandy,

A low dose session does depend on the person i.e. have you done
eboga/ibogaine before, where are you in your healing process, what

is your true intention, and of course do you have the open
heartedness, discernment and sprinkling of humility which allows
the soul to manifest and the ego to take a back seat. Otherwise I
would be looking to begin with a high dose session to disable the
ego if it is a major problem and to clear the ground a bit.

However, that said, in my experience (which is still in an early
stage vis a vis helping others in this area), a low dose session
of 6mg and 10% less for a woman, usually proceeds like this (for a

new comer to eboga/ibogaine):

1. All the commendations still apply regarding fasting etc.
However I say to people that you can drink a few drops here and
there in the hours leading up to the session as it acts to quench
the thirst and prevent uncomfortableness. Its always good to be as

empty as possible in the digestive tracts as the energy pushes
down on that area. (Fruit & juices for breakfast maybe and begin
in the evening. No liquids for at least 6 hours before or more.)

2. All the physical effects are the same (as a full session) but
on a lesser scale. You can get up but you feel quite wossy etc.
Its very important to be very calm in the first couple of hours to

get past the initial reaction to throw up at the beginning. If you

feel this coming on breathe deeply and rhytmically until it
passes. It can occur quite easily at the beginning as the deep
feelings are suddenly touch on. Its also aggrevated by movement.

3. At the time of ingestion I recommend drinking a full glass or
two of liquid to help the dissolving of the eboga/ibogaine. (With
the dehydration in progress from fasting this quickens the uptake
also of the eboga/ibogaine). Perhaps a cup of relaxing herbal tea
is in order at this time. In the 40 mins to 1 hr prior to onset,
pee as much as possible and be prepared for the possible need at
some stage to pee during the session. As the physical effects are
less this is not a major problem.

4.My own approach with a first time initiate is, I use the time
after the ingestion of the eboga/ ibogaine to converse and allow
the initiate to talk or ramble into his or her past and present.
As they are usually my friend its not a problem. I try to guide to

the areas where I sense some discord or uneasiness. This of course

is then picked up by the eboga energy as the energy grows and then

the Eboga spirit takes over from this point of departure. The
advantage in this is that the person (first timer) feels safer and

more relaxed (connected to a human) and is not shocked by the
commencement of the energy and where it suddenly takes them as the

energy hits while they are still connected to me. (As they are
entering a new domain of experience).

5. Having said all that if someone rathers to mediate or be with
themself that is also fine.

Session in progress:

I find at present that it is characterised by the unravelling of
stored memories offering differing insights to help the person
understand their past history in general, especially any periods
of the past where they feel confused about or cut off from – where

the person can face them. The memories come in overlap and in bits

and pieces which is a way to outwit the ego and yet transfer the
knowledge.

It is like an introduction or initiation into Eboga and it is
tailored to the person themselves. If someone can face
uncomfortable truths they will most likely be presented in the
context of an overall “moment of reflection in ones life” i.e. the

eboga mini session There can be heavy moments and yet these depend

on the person’s ability to face them at that time. The end result
is always a sense of deep insight & direction for future inner
work i.e. a kind of personal gameplan. Its a very intelligent
process as though one is being handled by an array of spirit
guides – which is in fact the case. They (the spirit guides) are
able to see the future and the past and know exactly what will
benefit you in that moment. There are there via the energy of the
Eboga spirit.

Sessions after major-Session:

This is somewhat different and in my own case it usually is based
on the synchronistic events in my life at that moment i.e they
reflect the stage I am at in my healing and thus act as the
catalyst for the area that needs healing at that moment or put
another way: the area open to healing at that moment. If a lot of
pain is involved, drop right into it and wait. It will pass and
you may experience a deep, deep or accelerated healing or you may
have to return again to the same pain in a later session. Yet, I
do think it also depends on the person and whether or not the
appropriate lessons have been learned. What I mean is that the
intention has to be there to learn and to move to a position of
love. With those intentions accelerated healing occurs and one can

note this intention in the way one seeks to understand oneself and

others in a loving way. That does not exclude justified anger etc.

Intervention:

I do check once or twice during the session on the mental state of

the person to ensure that they are not unnecessarily running away
from themselves and entering some kind of ego loop or are not in
some place they cannot handle. I remind them beforehand that there

is intention involved in facing what ails you and that success
does depend on this willingness. In the session I may gently guide

them back on track if I feel it will be of hel – generally it is
not necessaryp. Otherwise I simply leave them be and give
reassurance/encouragement at that moment of checking or respond to

any question they may have.

This is very different to full scale sessions.

Post-Session Problems:

Here is the crunch. If one is dealing with an arrogant individual
(reflects imo pain / lonliness / anger) then instead of moving
towards the heart after a session they can move towards the head
which is more a reflection of pain than anything else. (In full
sessions such a move is very normal regardless of the person as
usually a lot more material has been broken into). However, it is
problematic and one has to be careful in how one deals with that.
I recommend anyone who comes out of a session feeling sad or hurt
to explore their feelings and to undergo as much emotional release

as possible. Otherwise a return to the head is inevitable to use
thoughts to secrete ego induced endorphins to eleviate the pain.
It may not be avoidable.

Time of Session:

Usually about 12 hours for a first timer but can carry on in fits
and starts for the next 6 hours or so. (The overall energy is
there – not as noticeable – for the same duration as the full
session). Once the major part is over I recommend strongly to lie
on your bed and as you go in and out of sleep record the memories
which resurface from the session. You will be amazed at how much
returns. Its like another stage of the process and I would now go
as far as to say that this is another stage of the Eboga session:
Recall. Perhaps phase 3. (See below – perhaps this is better
handled at the 24 to 36 hour period?)

This is very important. To those who have little tolerance for ego

work, I would say you are making a big mistake imo. Healing is a
holistic process and the ego is not the same as the soul yet it is

part of who we are – it is the engine of the temple we inhabit.
Everything we do is a combination of the two and so if the ego is
unhealed, once we enter it to use it (in conjuction with our soul)

it is immediately vulnerable and we are compromised by its
unhealed state.

Make these notes as they will be the basis for the next phase of
healing within the Eboga Process.

Set & Setting:

I like to play tropical rain forest music in the background and to

be as comfortable as possible with little or no light. Usually I
put a scarf arcoss my eyes and wear loose clothing.

Time & Aftercare:

I recommend beginning around 8 pm/twilight or dark in the evening
as the bodies energy is more relaxed and moving into a different
rhytm. This means that by morning 8 pm one is ready to begin the
journalling or maybe have some refreshing herbal tea and begin the

journalling after. The rest of the day is to be taken as easily as

posible as it leads to the next important phase.

The following day is usually a 24 hour holiday of well being.

Insight:

Most of the understanding into what has passed begins to emerge in

the 24 hours after the initial part of 12 hours. Perhaps it is on
a time frame similar to a full session i.e. 36 hours, except the
phases are less intense. i.e. phase one – ego unravelling, phase 2

insight, phase 3 (after 24 hours) calm (Journalling). Its
difficult to journal in phase 2 (as one is really in a very
special self nourishing energy) but if you can take notes its good

for after the session. Maybe this is best to happen after the 24
hour mark. These are things I am still studying and learning
about.

Male/Female:

Generally speaking I give 10% less to a female than to a male,
i.e. male: 6mg/kg, female: 5.4 mg/kg. I think it is fair to say
that woman are more sensitive to ibogaine/eboga than men as men
tend to have more dominating egos and less access to the heart,
which is the door to the experience.

You may feel you are having a full session on 5mg/kg and if what
you are experiencing is similar to what a full session gave you
then I recommend you experiment beginning with perhaps 3mg/kg
working up to what I would consider a mini session experience.

However, the overall aim is to heal your inner world and that will

require different types of sessions at different times.

If you are not a recovering addict you may find that something
like the subsequent use of ayuhasca can help alleviate the pain
which can emerge as we move through our healing. Apart from this
there are other natural sunstances (Kava Kava?) which can infuse
the emotional tissues with warmth to counteract the pain that is
oosing out. Recovering addicts have to be careful not to take
anything which can knock them back onto their addictions.

Trauma & Psychological Recovery:

I think I could be here all day writing and so I wont go any
further except to say that a full program will require the
judicious use of major and mini sessions.

—————————————————————-

Hope those thoughts help. I have wrote what has come to mind and
will change what has been written here. These are rough thoughts.
I am very much still learning what applies outside my own personal

experiences. I hope in the future to flesh these things out more
and to give more thought to them.

I began eboga on major doses. So I am developing ideas for people
who have not and that requires more observation on my part.
However this much is true: Eboga knows exactly what it is doing.

Safe journey & Success to you,

Lee

P.S. Feel free to come back with any questions you have. I am more

than happy to engage on this as its an area I am working on.

booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Lee.  I am interested in experimenting with low-dose eboga and
am wondering what a low-dose session is typically like.  Do you
still find the need to lay down and be perfectly still and does it

consume the whole day, etc.  You mentioned low doses at around 5
mg/kg, but at that dose I feel like I’ve taken a “big dose.”  They

say women are often more sensitive to ibogaine, and I feel that
that is certainly true for me. I would probably take far smaller
amounts.  Anyway, any answers appreciated…

Best, Sandy

PS – Randy I think you are spot-on about Ms. Mash.  When I
experienced some physical symptoms after my third ibo session I
talked to her and she of course tried to convince me that it must
not’ve been real ibogaine, and why would I take the chance in the
“underground!”  I think she tries to discredit anyone but her own
place, which spells dollars for her, and certainly goes against
the spirit of Eboga I think too.  The idea that someone was left
for dead in a hotel by an ibogaine provider sounds utterly
ludicrous to me.  Hope someone does write the LA Times…

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way, way off topic_Mystical Experience
with MDMA + ?
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:47:09 +0000 (GMT)

Dear “not so slow” Slowone

Thank you very much for your reply. Very interesting indeed.

In my own case (apart from 3 therapeutic MDMA sessions after my
first eboga experience) I have based the past 6 years of my
journey on the sacramental use of eboga to travel the inner
recesses of my psyche and encounter the hidden demons of my past.
I have unlocked practically every door (I am presently aware of)
within me and have experienced nothing short of miraculous
recovery. I eagerly look forward to completing the 3 books I am
working on to share all the details of what I have experienced.

So I have not felt any need to enter the world of ayahuasca.
However from what you write it is definitely something I will
explore at some stage. Forgive me if I say (what some may take as
heresy) but I find eboga to be a complete cure when used with the
right intention, a sufficiently discerning mind and a heart that
seeks as its ultimate goal a deep experience of love. Why?

Because it is very much spiritually guided and events in one life

fall into place to move the process along if one is willing to
undergo the changes and take the risks.

I like what you say about eboga and how it brings you in contact
with specific deep issues. (I assume we are talking about low
doses here) It confirms exactly what I am trying to promote in my
writings: the use of eboga to resolve childhood trauma and abuse
and to advance ones spirituality via the growth of consciousness
which ensues.

There is absolutely no doubt that ongoing use of eboga is both
surprising and humbling. It is also wonderfully liberating.

The part I find interesting for myself is how I went from a
scientific agnostic to a believer & admirer of the God and the
Goddess. Two great kind (non imposing) and generous entities in my

opinon. You could say the perfect parents. And yet with them I
sense a humility which accepts me lovingly as I am and allows me
to grow from there. Its almost like a growing friendship.

Good idea to use as an adjunct to therapy.

One observation I would make on the healing action of eboga is
this. A particular emotion such as abandonment, loss of a loved
one etc can be resolved (when the time is right) by an experience
of accelerated healing with eboga. By that I mean, the
concentration of all the pain is oosed out of the psyche like the
puss from a boil and that is something which conventional therapy
imo cannot do. That is why I recommend to anyone who is interested

in full recovery to invest time and trust in its healing ways. It
has many miracles to offer.

Love & Peace

Lee

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:39:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: 01 December 2004 18:22
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women!  I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice
show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine.  As Deborah Mash is the only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not
shared or published
that data, the question remains open.  My experience is opposite
Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a
matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all
women.

Hi Howard,

Just for the record, JW, a 39 year old male from London, was recorded by the
coroner as having died from “fatal reaction to iboga extract,” about 40
hours out, back in Jan 2000. Just in case anyone was thinking guys were
invulnerable.

Nick Sandberg  www.ibogaine.co.uk

Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four
hours out and
the other at one hour out.  The third who did not have a cardiac
disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out.  Based on general
safety doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses.  In continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few
hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than
20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness proper
doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses
compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes.
Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses
in some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or women.
This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women!  I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!  In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen.  For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience.  Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated.  I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:29:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 00:35:33 -0800 HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 12/2/04 3:15:09 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

I wonder if female/male differences might depend on addiction
status.

We have to be very specific here.  Exactly which differences are
you talking of?

Any differences there is data for 🙂 But specifically, some say
women require more ibogaine and others say less. Is that more/less
for addiction or having a satisfying non-addiction personal
exploration without addiction present?

Howard

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:53:01 -0800 Lee Albert
<myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Thanks for the information Howard.

Julie, I don’t have enough experience to say but I have read
Hattie Wells’s write up before with interest at this “anomaly.”
It’s something I hope to get a better feel of with time and
perhaps even try and get some guidance on. For now I have verged

towards the safe end to see if the experiences are sufficiently
powerful and rewarding at the reduced dose. I will say this. Of
4
people I recently ran mini sessions the experience was
psychologically more challenging for the males than the females
who were on a 10% less dose. Yet the females reported deep
satisfaction in what they experienced.

There is obviously something to what Hattie says – she would not

say it otherwise. On the other hand it may be that the females
in
my group were more open to seeing? I don’t really know right
now.

Also, as Howard points out each person reacts differently which
is

why I advocate: Beginners Begin Low. In this way we can get a
better personalised picture and step up the dose in a future
session or maybe step back depending ……….

Right now its a case of better safe than sorry. I don’t want to
tip someone into a full session who is not prepared for it.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice

show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine. As Deborah Mash is
the

only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not
shared or published
that data, the question remains open. My experience is opposite
Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a
matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African
providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all
women. Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four
hours out and
the other at one hour out. The third who did not have a cardiac
disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based on general
safety
doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses. In
continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few

hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than
20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness
proper
doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the
Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses

compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes.
Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses
in

some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or
women.
This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com
writes:

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE! In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen. For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience. Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated. I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

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From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:26:59 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julie,
Many years ago (22 years) when I read castaneda’s first book I liked book
very much but after “Tales Of Power” I started to think it’s just a best
seller thats all. However I read all books of Castaneda; it was joyfull. I
like reading I always read. But little different; Kant, Hume, Lock. I’m
interesing with philosophia. (But also Dostoyevsky, Kafka my other loves)

I was on Morphine before I treated with Iboga. When you mailed to list start
morph. to kick addiction easier; I did same way with you and 15 days ago
stoped met. and started Morph. But my dose was very very high I don’t want
to say amount but it was very very high as hard to believe.

I used oppiates (mostly H) until I treated Iboga almost 13 years non-stop.
(I know that I’m fool) wasted years for nothing.

But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Yes you are right; Bush is a modern crusader (as he said before) xenophobia
is the reason of love of death and love of things. Bush has owner of many
material things and I think he feels like god and he likes…

Best Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Dear Fake Placebo,

Yeah, it’s almost as if opiates give us ‘tolerance’-
the tolerance to put up with situations that would
otherwise drive us out of our mind.  Religious dogma
does that to me.  It just seems so xenophobic,
exclusionist, UGLY, that I can’t help but think that
if GOD really exists, IT must be very angry with us
sometimes.  All these selfish wankers nowadays(Bush
included), twisting/distorting the words of Jesus or
other prophets to serve their own aims….it makes me
truly nauseous.

But anyways…did you come off methadone or H?  I
think you said you were using dope, right?  That would
probably explain the shorter duration of residual
withdrawal, as methadone takes much longer to break
down, tear off the receptors, and be excreted.  And
the sleep disturbances- well, FakeP, that might take a
while to stabilize.  I still wake up numerous times
every night- in fact, last night I awoke at 3:30am,
and couldn’t get back to sleep until 5:30.  If I were
you, I’d stay away from the benzos- nothing like
artificial sleep to make your body feel like shite.

If you do decide to continue using benzos, take them
earlier…Weed is OK, but it’s effects don’t seem to
last very long, in terms of sleepiness.  May I ask how
much H you were using?  And for how long?

I also found reading to be a helpful tool…television
is alright (kind of the adult’s pacifier), but books-
oh god, I could feel the new synapses being laid down.
I’ve been reading some pretty cool metaphysical stuff
(think Carlos Castenada and his ilk), and at the 6 or
8 week mark, I celebrated my birthday with a tab (or
two) of XTC…even though I crashed afterwards, I felt
the effects really gave my healing ‘evolution’ a sharp
kick in the ass.

Still clean, only burning occassional spliffs.  I feel
great, emancipated, and I want to spread the word
about Iboga to the other unfortunate souls still
trapped in the ‘gridlock’…like Randy said, the
bussier you keep yourself, the less time you will have
to worry about any discomfort you might be feeling..

cheers,
Julie 🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:22:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

5-HTP (a seratonin precursor) and melatonin have been recommended
for sleep post-ibo. Also herbs like chamomile, valerian, and
others.

If you can do something like yoga, it may help with sleep and
irritability. Therapy is always recommended, since emotional issues
are brought out by ibogaine, and these can manifest as a variety of
discomforts. It may sound odd, but sometimes people can get
feelings out (and some relief) by screaming into a pillow – perhaps
to ask the eboga spirit for more help or to call on one’s
ancestors. Or just to complain 🙂

The main thing is to explore as much emotional discomfort as one
can without getting overwhelmed. As the new territory becomes
familiar, a new richness comes into one’s life to replace old
emotional habits. I find it to be very slow but rewarding work.
Sometimes discomfort seems to be designed expressly to avoid having
good feelings that were not reliably obtainable in childhood, other
times it might be anger turned inward.

On Thu, 02 Dec 2004 03:28:49 -0800 FakePlacebo
<fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Julie,

Totaly agreed with you. I feel almost same way with you. What a
coinidence I
hate all kind of religion dogma but here in Turkey Muslim
propoganda comes
to my office by the some fool and ignorant “friends”. After Iboga
I said to
them fuck off….I become very rude one.

I’m not filtering and depressing my feelings anymore. But there is

something
different then you I did not experienced weakness as you did.
After 8 days I
started to feel that I can go to work. 11. days started to work.
But there
is still little pains on my muscles. Insomnia still affects me
very bad way.
I’m watching billions of movie, cable and satelite Tv, DVD etc…
every
night I’m awake untill 4:00 AM. I’m using some benzodiazepin pills

for
sleeping it works but next day I feel like a fool. This kind of
drugs lasts
for hours. Sometimes joint could make me avaible for sleepin but
sometimes.

I have to find a way to sleep because this Insomnia issue drive me

crazy.
Last to days I slept totaly 2,5 hours at all.
Please keep on write to me because I need to know that I’m not the

only one
to feel like as I’m real.

Thank you for what you shared with me
Bets Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie)

Hi FP,

Hi, How are you?  In short, I feel great.  Still
haven’t touched any opiates, and have no real desire
to do so.  However, I believe that is due only in part
to the noribogaine that may or may not be floating
around my system- I really wanted to quit.  My
body/mind was tired, dare I say DISGUSTED, by the
whole scene, and I believe this realization is making
opiate abstinence quite easy right now.

I had energy/fatigue problems for the first 2-3 weeks,
but my body has since normalized, and I feel pretty
good overall.  Sleep issues are a whole different
story altogether- I STILL have sleep disturbances.  My
doc told me it can take months to normalize (something
about opiates acting on the area of the brain that
regulates sleep.

In terms of personality changes, I feel a lot more,
um, RAW- nothing is filtered out anymore.  Every
beautiful situation, every annoying and ugly one- I
embrace each and every moment with the naivete of a 5
year old.

I would say I also stick up for myself more now,
without the aid of rose-tinted, opiated glasses.  I
have an aunt who used to send me the most ridiculous,
right-wing, Christian fundamentalist propaganda,
almost on a daily basis.  It annoyed the fuck out of
me.  Well, needless to say, I critically ‘dissected’
the last piece of clap-trap, and LO AND BEHOLD: no
more Christian, exclusionist dogma forwarded to my
Inbox.

As with other methods of detox, TIME is the only way
to truly recover…don’t worry, Fake Placebo: if your
TIME hasn’t come yet, it will soon…

cheers,
Julie

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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 2, 2004 at 11:19:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave to put it in the words of a guy half my age, they suck as does everything i rationalized about putting into my body to “feel good”.  i’m a weak link in the food chain and can’t handle any of it. kudos to those that want to and can pull it off.  i never succeeded. rd
—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

I don’t know what “benzos” are, but am on your team.

valium, xanex, adivan, librium, et al.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Crystal Meth addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:37:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 7:29:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

How much data is there on treating crank addiction out there? This is going
to come up real soon. I see it everywhere. Howard can you help? Seems to
me
there would be a lot of complications involved with crystal meth and what
it does
to your body after a long run with not much to eat and the depletion of
vitamins in the body. What would you look for in the blood work from someone
like
that other than liver function? Not to mention the psychosis that sometimes
comes with it. They would have to come down for a long time before treatment
wouldn’t they? Any input is welcome here.           Randy

Hi randy,

Safety testing for methamphetamine would be the same as intake should be for
an ibogaine/iboga patient.  An EKG and a chem 18 that provides additional
information on the blood beyond a liver panel.  If your methamphetamine patient is
exhibiting physical signs of some form of damage than you have to make a
determination as to whether you would treat them or not.  What you should do is
make sure the methamphetamine clears before you administer ibogaine.  Ibogaine
increases brain levels of amphetamine and while there is no data yet,
amphetamine may increase brain levels of ibogaine.

In the one significant methamphetamine user whose treatment I was involved
with the patient sat upright three hours into the therapy and said she wanted to
go to the beach. This is a period when most patients are flat on their backs.
There was a beach nearby so we took her there.  She walked about for an hour
or so and then said she was tired and wanted to return to the hotel which she
did.  The rest of her therapy of quite normal and effective.  She was using
methamphetamine, 1 to 3 grams a day by IV injection and 20mg/day/methadone.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:27:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 7:09:20 AM, fakeplacebo@hotmail.com writes:

I have to find a way to sleep because this Insomnia issue drive me crazy.
Last to days I slept totaly 2,5 hours at all.

Please keep on write to me because I need to know that I’m not the only
one to feel like as I’m real.

Another week or two and your sleep pattern should return to normal.

Howard

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hilarious–but Dark. Caution-may be depressing.
Date: December 2, 2004 at 10:02:52 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jeff,

I misunderstood your post. I thought you were refering to the potential to abuse ibogaine.

I think that anyone using ibogaine to kick a habit will initially by and large have less of a spiritual experience as the energy is fighting to clear out the addiction energy on a physical & most likely spiritual level. Perhaps addiction in some respects is also a housing of dark entities in ones soul, a kind of parasitic union where dark entities or demons cling to the vulnerability created by the addiction & work to maintain it by sucking out all the good it can? It’s certainly a physical reality and it certainly affects the intention of the one undergoing the session. Going into the session one is not really primed for spiritual experiences but more for getting clean as one is actually physically (& spiritually imo) sick.

So, once clean I think depending on who you are inside, the spiritual experience will come just as strongly for the recovering addict if not more strongly as they have for the most part threaded a tough path – all of which is highly demanding on the soul. It takes great soul power to come back from such a place and so one can only imagine that the spiritual experiences are waiting to be experienced as much for the recovering addict as for the non-conventional-addict. The main difference is that your body chemistry is fucked up with an addiction as opposed to a psychological addiction where the chemistry may be okay and so the energy can then be routed to the spiritual experience.

Spiritual experiences surely depend on the state of the soul and its relationship to the ego, i.e. how it uses the ego and what its intention is. For example. Do I intend to be a straight up guy or am I always going to exploit others and lie to cover my tracks as I feel no problem with that? I guess its about spiritual values at the end of the day and those apply to anyone regardless of whether they are a recovering addict or not. The fact that one is compromised as an addict to behave with less integrity is not the issue. The issue is how much you work to try & not to go with that tendency. That imo is what builds the soul.

I hope that along with my other reply gives a better picture. It is only my opinion based on what I experience and also what I have seen a few times.

Love & Light

Lee

Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Jeff,

I dont believe its possible to seriously abuse ibogaine. Yes there are times when one can take it out of desperation and its effects are minimal but its not like other drugs in that it is fundamentally spiritual and if one is working on a clear gameplan to clean up the shit in your life that is where it will eventually take you.Sometimes more, sometimes less. Depending on what you are doing in your day to day life to move forward.

Continued use (imo) should take into account a reasonable time difference to allow the body to flush itself of the by products for one thing. Drinking plenty of water helps and movement/exercise. Time to should also be allowed (where possible) to come out of the downward cusp of the previous session, i.e., it will bring up shit and when you have a sense that it has been reasonably integrated or taken on board then you are ready to take more on board. Ibogaine is just one part of the process. It simply opens the door to the healing spirits to do their work. The body and the person has their own timetable and ability to handle. Therefore it is very personal.

Secondly, if someone is feeling shit then once you feel clear in the head and have that sense of being clean from the last session, focus your thoughts and feelings on feeling shit and go into a mini-session with this in your heart, your mind and your whole being. (Beforehand try some emotional release work also – if that seems good to do – get the emotions, the feelings out). Let the energy drop you down further and wait to see what emerges – indulge yourself. Also, making contact, through focussed attention, with the spirit entities from whom you seek help, as a mark of respect cannot hurt – asking for help and guidance. Because they are there doing their thing for you.

If none of this works,  I would welcome (if thats welcomed) a correspondance off the list to try and get a better feel for what is going on and perhaps help in some way (If I can), as there are others factors also, No?

In the end only the person themselves knows what is going on.

I will send some good vibes Rachel’s way.

Peace & Love,

Lee

Jeffgd1@aol.com wrote:
you know the election really blew me away as an NYC guy i thought the rest of the country was at least on the same page but it seems they are downright narrow-minded about any human problems
the 9/11 experience (losing 17 of my union brothers) and all that also prompted me as much as the election do the ibogaine and get off the clinic I had no doubt that in the frenzy of another attack us methadone folks were not going to be a high priority at all
So I figured that I need to have the freedom to get the fuck out of the city this coast and maybe the country.
Now that i have no real strings (my son is in college here but i can deal with that) i really am beginning to see a future that i can live my dream in instead of a handcuffed two payment behind working stiff on the treadmill of debt and working poor that the government seems to think is the ay to be for all the but the rich
As far as progress I feel about 65% back which compared to a week ago is great but it so so so so slow everyday is long and sleeping is a restless  hard process.
I have been listeningto a lot of music all my favorites downloading old school Grateful Dead (My first s addiction which led me to  end up with about 400 shows in my memories On the road with the dead was my proving ground it did in fact lead me to my addiction but the road there was filled with adventures on the road that i still smile about even the ones where somehow someway the man didn’t get us…again to be young and invinsable!
The tunes stir up deep emotion and i attribute this to the ibogaine the miracle plant i am m ore stunned and in awe of what it did to wipe my brain clean in a couple of days of what i look back now as a couple a days of fun tripping though was hoping to have more of a spiritual journey into myself …..
Lee have you found that folks  who are using Ibo for a habit have less of a spiritual experience.
I guess that’s it Rachel has not been feeling well so send her some healing thoughts please.
with all respect
Freak Freely!!
Jeff

http://www.my-eboga.com

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 9:55:43 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Fake Placebo,

Yeah, it’s almost as if opiates give us ‘tolerance’-
the tolerance to put up with situations that would
otherwise drive us out of our mind.  Religious dogma
does that to me.  It just seems so xenophobic,
exclusionist, UGLY, that I can’t help but think that
if GOD really exists, IT must be very angry with us
sometimes.  All these selfish wankers nowadays(Bush
included), twisting/distorting the words of Jesus or
other prophets to serve their own aims….it makes me
truly nauseous.

But anyways…did you come off methadone or H?  I
think you said you were using dope, right?  That would
probably explain the shorter duration of residual
withdrawal, as methadone takes much longer to break
down, tear off the receptors, and be excreted.  And
the sleep disturbances- well, FakeP, that might take a
while to stabilize.  I still wake up numerous times
every night- in fact, last night I awoke at 3:30am,
and couldn’t get back to sleep until 5:30.  If I were
you, I’d stay away from the benzos- nothing like
artificial sleep to make your body feel like shite.

If you do decide to continue using benzos, take them
earlier…Weed is OK, but it’s effects don’t seem to
last very long, in terms of sleepiness.  May I ask how
much H you were using?  And for how long?

I also found reading to be a helpful tool…television
is alright (kind of the adult’s pacifier), but books-
oh god, I could feel the new synapses being laid down.
I’ve been reading some pretty cool metaphysical stuff
(think Carlos Castenada and his ilk), and at the 6 or
8 week mark, I celebrated my birthday with a tab (or
two) of XTC…even though I crashed afterwards, I felt
the effects really gave my healing ‘evolution’ a sharp
kick in the ass.

Still clean, only burning occassional spliffs.  I feel
great, emancipated, and I want to spread the word
about Iboga to the other unfortunate souls still
trapped in the ‘gridlock’…like Randy said, the
bussier you keep yourself, the less time you will have
to worry about any discomfort you might be feeling..

cheers,
Julie 🙂

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off topic – Any astrology experts/pundits on the forum?
Date: December 2, 2004 at 9:43:21 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel,

You are very welcome and thanks for the interesting link.

Myself, I like numerology. I am not so clued up on astrology.

Hasta luego,

Lee

Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com> wrote:
There’s some good star tracking (available in multiple
languages) under “free horoscopes” at
http://www.astro.com/

Mutable just means changeable, so you could call that
quality unstable *if* you like, although flexible,
open, and flowing also apply. Pisces is a great
sensitive moon to have – internal, psychic, deep.

Reminds me, Lee, that I loved the nebula pictures in
the Amazing Grace book. Thanks again for posting that
to the List.

love, Rachel

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] to Jeff
Date: December 2, 2004 at 9:36:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jeff,

It’s great to hear your voice on the forum…Welcome
back, and enjoy the rebirth…

Julie

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hilarious–but Dark. Caution-may be depressing.
Date: December 2, 2004 at 8:32:29 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jeff,

I dont believe its possible to seriously abuse ibogaine. Yes there are times when one can take it out of desperation and its effects are minimal but its not like other drugs in that it is fundamentally spiritual and if one is working on a clear gameplan to clean up the shit in your life that is where it will eventually take you.Sometimes more, sometimes less. Depending on what you are doing in your day to day life to move forward.

Continued use (imo) should take into account a reasonable time difference to allow the body to flush itself of the by products for one thing. Drinking plenty of water helps and movement/exercise. Time to should also be allowed (where possible) to come out of the downward cusp of the previous session, i.e., it will bring up shit and when you have a sense that it has been reasonably integrated or taken on board then you are ready to take more on board. Ibogaine is just one part of the process. It simply opens the door to the healing spirits to do their work. The body and the person has their own timetable and ability to handle. Therefore it is very personal.

Secondly, if someone is feeling shit then once you feel clear in the head and have that sense of being clean from the last session, focus your thoughts and feelings on feeling shit and go into a mini-session with this in your heart, your mind and your whole being. (Beforehand try some emotional release work also – if that seems good to do – get the emotions, the feelings out). Let the energy drop you down further and wait to see what emerges – indulge yourself. Also, making contact, through focussed attention, with the spirit entities from whom you seek help, as a mark of respect cannot hurt – asking for help and guidance. Because they are there doing their thing for you.

If none of this works,  I would welcome (if thats welcomed) a correspondance off the list to try and get a better feel for what is going on and perhaps help in some way (If I can), as there are others factors also, No?

In the end only the person themselves knows what is going on.

I will send some good vibes Rachel’s way.

Peace & Love,

Lee

Jeffgd1@aol.com wrote:
you know the election really blew me away as an NYC guy i thought the rest of the country was at least on the same page but it seems they are downright narrow-minded about any human problems
the 9/11 experience (losing 17 of my union brothers) and all that also prompted me as much as the election do the ibogaine and get off the clinic I had no doubt that in the frenzy of another attack us methadone folks were not going to be a high priority at all
So I figured that I need to have the freedom to get the fuck out of the city this coast and maybe the country.
Now that i have no real strings (my son is in college here but i can deal with that) i really am beginning to see a future that i can live my dream in instead of a handcuffed two payment behind working stiff on the treadmill of debt and working poor that the government seems to think is the ay to be for all the but the rich
As far as progress I feel about 65% back which compared to a week ago is great but it so so so so slow everyday is long and sleeping is a restless  hard process.
I have been listeningto a lot of music all my favorites downloading old school Grateful Dead (My first s addiction which led me to  end up with about 400 shows in my memories On the road with the dead was my proving ground it did in fact lead me to my addiction but the road there was filled with adventures on the road that i still smile about even the ones where somehow someway the man didn’t get us…again to be young and invinsable!
The tunes stir up deep emotion and i attribute this to the ibogaine the miracle plant i am m ore stunned and in awe of what it did to wipe my brain clean in a couple of days of what i look back now as a couple a days of fun tripping though was hoping to have more of a spiritual journey into myself …..
Lee have you found that folks  who are using Ibo for a habit have less of a spiritual experience.
I guess that’s it Rachel has not been feeling well so send her some healing thoughts please.
with all respect
Freak Freely!!
Jeff

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine and Crystal Meth addiction
Date: December 2, 2004 at 7:28:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How much data is there on treating crank addiction out there? This is going to come up real soon. I see it everywhere. Howard can you help? Seems to me there would be a lot of complications involved with crystal meth and what it does to your body after a long run with not much to eat and the depletion of vitamins in the body. What would you look for in the blood work from someone like that other than liver function? Not to mention the psychosis that sometimes comes with it. They would have to come down for a long time before treatment wouldn’t they? Any input is welcome here.           Randy

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 2, 2004 at 6:28:49 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Julie,

Totaly agreed with you. I feel almost same way with you. What a coinidence I
hate all kind of religion dogma but here in Turkey Muslim propoganda comes
to my office by the some fool and ignorant “friends”. After Iboga I said to
them fuck off….I become very rude one.

I’m not filtering and depressing my feelings anymore. But there is something
different then you I did not experienced weakness as you did. After 8 days I
started to feel that I can go to work. 11. days started to work. But there
is still little pains on my muscles. Insomnia still affects me very bad way.
I’m watching billions of movie, cable and satelite Tv, DVD etc… every
night I’m awake untill 4:00 AM. I’m using some benzodiazepin pills for
sleeping it works but next day I feel like a fool. This kind of drugs lasts
for hours. Sometimes joint could make me avaible for sleepin but sometimes.

I have to find a way to sleep because this Insomnia issue drive me crazy.
Last to days I slept totaly 2,5 hours at all.
Please keep on write to me because I need to know that I’m not the only one
to feel like as I’m real.

Thank you for what you shared with me
Bets Regards
FakePlacebo

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie)

Hi FP,

Hi, How are you?  In short, I feel great.  Still
haven’t touched any opiates, and have no real desire
to do so.  However, I believe that is due only in part
to the noribogaine that may or may not be floating
around my system- I really wanted to quit.  My
body/mind was tired, dare I say DISGUSTED, by the
whole scene, and I believe this realization is making
opiate abstinence quite easy right now.

I had energy/fatigue problems for the first 2-3 weeks,
but my body has since normalized, and I feel pretty
good overall.  Sleep issues are a whole different
story altogether- I STILL have sleep disturbances.  My
doc told me it can take months to normalize (something
about opiates acting on the area of the brain that
regulates sleep.

In terms of personality changes, I feel a lot more,
um, RAW- nothing is filtered out anymore.  Every
beautiful situation, every annoying and ugly one- I
embrace each and every moment with the naivete of a 5
year old.

I would say I also stick up for myself more now,
without the aid of rose-tinted, opiated glasses.  I
have an aunt who used to send me the most ridiculous,
right-wing, Christian fundamentalist propaganda,
almost on a daily basis.  It annoyed the fuck out of
me.  Well, needless to say, I critically ‘dissected’
the last piece of clap-trap, and LO AND BEHOLD: no
more Christian, exclusionist dogma forwarded to my
Inbox.

As with other methods of detox, TIME is the only way
to truly recover…don’t worry, Fake Placebo: if your
TIME hasn’t come yet, it will soon…

cheers,
Julie

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] post ibogaine (Jeff)
Date: December 2, 2004 at 5:04:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jeff, I been watchin’ you. You’re doing great dude. We were close in meth dose, age and duration of use so maybe what happened to me might apply here. As you know I became king pussy at about day 8 and lost my mind for a while. I kind of snapped out of it at about the 2 and a half week point and went to the Ibogaine meeting, met up with you guys, went to Preston’s party and went back home. I felt great in NYC but when I went back home I started feeling bad again. My Mom’s place is very serene and I love it there but being a guy that is much like you and pretty well kept on the move I was very bored and obsessed about my problems a lot. I know I will sound redundant but I have to say that the more I moved around the better I felt. As soon as I started traveling again I started to feel better. Going back and forth between Erie and Catskill I had a lot of time to think too and came to realize I had to lighten up on myself and enjoy the beautiful life Ibogaine showed me and get on with it. I had always considered myself incorrigible but now I know I was just sick. I’m still sick but in a better way now. hehe I think Ibogaine somehow rewired my brain for long enough to let me process some things I had never been able to forgive myself for. I had to let go of that shit. My residual withdrawals went completely away at week 3 or so except for sneezing. As far as energy levels go I just came off of interferon at the time so I was pretty well exhausted so I can’t really help there. This is getting pretty long, I just wanted to say that it is great to see you posting here and getting on with it in your own way. It sure would be cool if we could hook up in the city and go to the Frying Pan or something. We ought to have a party there for Ibonauts and the like and all the what nots that want to come along. I could probably bring a shit load of gear and rock the fuck out of it. Big metal boat ought to sound acoustically weird. LoL I just don’t know if I can remember how to use the subways. Thanx for your help that night.             Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:35:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/2/04 3:15:09 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

I wonder if female/male differences might depend on addiction
status.

We have to be very specific here.  Exactly which differences are you talking
of?

Howard

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:53:01 -0800 Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Thanks for the information Howard.

Julie, I don’t have enough experience to say but I have read
Hattie Wells’s write up before with interest at this “anomaly.”
It’s something I hope to get a better feel of with time and
perhaps even try and get some guidance on. For now I have verged
towards the safe end to see if the experiences are sufficiently
powerful and rewarding at the reduced dose. I will say this. Of 4
people I recently ran mini sessions the experience was
psychologically more challenging for the males than the females
who were on a 10% less dose. Yet the females reported deep
satisfaction in what they experienced.

There is obviously something to what Hattie says – she would not
say it otherwise. On the other hand it may be that the females in
my group were more open to seeing? I don’t really know right now.

Also, as Howard points out each person reacts differently which is

why I advocate: Beginners Begin Low. In this way we can get a
better personalised picture and step up the dose in a future
session or maybe step back depending ……….

Right now its a case of better safe than sorry. I don’t want to
tip someone into a full session who is not prepared for it.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice
show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine. As Deborah Mash is the

only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not
shared or published
that data, the question remains open. My experience is opposite
Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a
matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African
providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all
women. Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four
hours out and
the other at one hour out. The third who did not have a cardiac
disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based on general safety
doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses. In
continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few
hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than
20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness proper
doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the
Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses
compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes.
Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses in

some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or women.
This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE! In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen. For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience. Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated. I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 2, 2004 at 3:14:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I wonder if female/male differences might depend on addiction
status.

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 12:53:01 -0800 Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Thanks for the information Howard.

Julie, I don’t have enough experience to say but I have read
Hattie Wells’s write up before with interest at this “anomaly.”
It’s something I hope to get a better feel of with time and
perhaps even try and get some guidance on. For now I have verged
towards the safe end to see if the experiences are sufficiently
powerful and rewarding at the reduced dose. I will say this. Of 4
people I recently ran mini sessions the experience was
psychologically more challenging for the males than the females
who were on a 10% less dose. Yet the females reported deep
satisfaction in what they experienced.

There is obviously something to what Hattie says – she would not
say it otherwise. On the other hand it may be that the females in
my group were more open to seeing? I don’t really know right now.

Also, as Howard points out each person reacts differently which is

why I advocate: Beginners Begin Low. In this way we can get a
better personalised picture and step up the dose in a future
session or maybe step back depending ……….

Right now its a case of better safe than sorry. I don’t want to
tip someone into a full session who is not prepared for it.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice
show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine. As Deborah Mash is the

only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not
shared or published
that data, the question remains open. My experience is opposite
Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a
matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African
providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all
women. Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four
hours out and
the other at one hour out. The third who did not have a cardiac
disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based on general safety
doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses. In
continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few
hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than
20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness proper
doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the
Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses
compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes.
Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses in

some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or women.
This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE! In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen. For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience. Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated. I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
media available here:

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 2, 2004 at 12:11:11 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know what “benzos” are, but am on your team.

valium, xanex, adivan, librium, et al.

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From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 11:48:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, I lived in Breathitt Co.  I know this.  When I have been to court with Marty I have such compassion for the men before the judge in their shabby clothes and stoop shoulders.  I’m sorry I even said this to you–was immediately sorry in fact but had hit “send”.  I don’t like it when people that do evil get off- but would them rather get a good public licking than have to go to prison.  I don’t know what “benzos” are, but am on your team.  Faith

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 20:27:54 -0600

when the players aren’t playing by their rules, the judge is a prosecutor and i’m dbl. teamed, yes, not bad stuff. the constitution is not a worthless piece of paper.   20 yrs. and i’m jaded. cops lying(yes they do faith). sounds like you’d give up your bill of right cuz you do no wrong. when cops raid houses with masks, no name tags, they’re not public servants, they’re soldiers.smacks of  argentina and central america. no, i enjoy a good fight, but they don’t play by the rules(surprised?)  welcome to to crim law.  i follow the rules, the man doesn’t.  in china, they can put you in prison for 2 yrs. w/o a trial.  next stop death squads.  all my clients get due process and my best game, i don’t like cops picking on people who can’t fight back. i fight for everyone i represent, guilty or not. but when the “good guys” don’t follow their rules, i take pleasure in whooping them, guilty or not. i’ve walked innocent people that have so much bad karma for past and future deeds.  it’s a cessspool faith. welcome to the real world
—– Original Message —– From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

You love walking guilty people?  I’m not impressed.  Do you also like to sentence innocent people?

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:11:14 -0600

i am cyber moron. pen ball era. low on the curve. pre pac man and hi tech stuff, put me in a courtroom and i shine. i love walking guilty people when the judge and govt are convinced there’s a guilty coming down and they dbl team me. perverse?  you bet   i do have morals though. i d/n understand computers but am trying to learn    . i have a long ways to go. video games were something that d/n produce enough endorphins.  rather mtn bike ron sky diver , scuba cave certified.adddict—– Original Message —– From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

On Nov 26, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Ron Davis wrote:

no program to open
—– Original Message —– From: <ibogaine-digest-help@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 10:06 AM
Subject: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

Ron … just to ask a crazy question, why are you signed up for the digest and the list, simultaeneously — like, all at once for instance… If you really do want TwicE tHe FuN, and double the joy, far be it from me to argue.

When you doubleclick the digest, whatever box you are using — I’m gonna guess Windoze — does not know what to open it WITH.  It’s just a plain text file; throw it on any text editor like Notepad or whatever, and then it’ll associate that app with the digests, in the future — unless it doesn’t… In which case it won’t work at all, or partially, and only once.  After that, the only other way to get it to work is to put on magickIcaL RubY reD slipPerz and click your heels together three times and say, “I believe!”

Photoz plZ

Patrick

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_________________________________________________________________
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_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hilarious–but Dark. Caution-may be depressing.
Date: December 1, 2004 at 11:22:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you know the election really blew me away as an NYC guy i thought the rest of the country was at least on the same page but it seems they are downright narrow-minded about any human problems
the 9/11 experience (losing 17 of my union brothers) and all that also prompted me as much as the election do the ibogaine and get off the clinic I had no doubt that in the frenzy of another attack us methadone folks were not going to be a high priority at all
So I figured that I need to have the freedom to get the fuck out of the city this coast and maybe the country.
Now that i have no real strings (my son is in college here but i can deal with that) i really am beginning to see a future that i can live my dream in instead of a handcuffed two payment behind working stiff on the treadmill of debt and working poor that the government seems to think is the ay to be for all the but the rich
As far as progress I feel about 65% back which compared to a week ago is great but it so so so so slow everyday is long and sleeping is a restless  hard process.
I have been listeningto a lot of music all my favorites downloading old school Grateful Dead (My first s addiction which led me to  end up with about 400 shows in my memories On the road with the dead was my proving ground it did in fact lead me to my addiction but the road there was filled with adventures on the road that i still smile about even the ones where somehow someway the man didn’t get us…again to be young and invinsable!
The tunes stir up deep emotion and i attribute this to the ibogaine the miracle plant i am m ore stunned and in awe of what it did to wipe my brain clean in a couple of days of what i look back now as a couple a days of fun tripping though was hoping to have more of a spiritual journey into myself …..
Lee have you found that folks  who are using Ibo for a habit have less of a spiritual experience.
I guess that’s it Rachel has not been feeling well so send her some healing thoughts please.
with all respect
Freak Freely!!
Jeff

From: shelley krupa <skrupa20022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Question for Sara
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:31:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey beloved ,I have a friend who was kicked off his methadone program ,was on 30 mg,hasnt done meth in over two weeks & is using 1/8 gm heroin (probably more some too),can you email me with cost & ballpark amount of time he’d need at your healing temple?thanks -shellSara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Jasen wanted me to let you know, he is not addicted any longer to Methadone , Heroin, nicotine and sugar.
He spend the day/night in Utrecht next to a massage/sauna place.
Yesterday evening he got some Mushrooms and slept 7 hours. He said the shrooms helped him emotionally.
The shrooms helped the Iboga experience ,it gives some more understanding  of the self. it wasn’t like a LSD trip
But an emotional trip.

Randy, Jasen took the root bark extracted. I think the HCL is easier to work with,  mg/kg and it should work.
You need to take less substance and only one alkaloid which makes the process  easier to understand.

Sara
Van: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 1 december 2004 0:03
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Jasen, I wish that taking Iboga was an option here, I for one would like to do some research on the differences. I think it is a problem of logistics for the reason to use Ibogaine. Hcl. doesn’t take up that much room therefore it is easier to conceal. Did you take Indra or root bark? I sure would like to see Sara at work.      Randy

From: “Jamilah” <jamilah@erols.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Hilarious–but Dark. Caution-may be depressing.
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:20:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some things to Do Before the Inaugural:

1. Get that abortion you’ve always wanted.

2. Drink your last clean glass of water.

3. Cash your social security check.

4. See a doctor of your own choosing.

5. Spend quality time with your draft age child/grandchild.

6. Visit Syria, or any foreign country for that matter.

7. Get that gas mask you’ve been putting off buying.

8. Hoard gasoline.

10. Borrow books from library before they’re banned – Constitutional
law books, Catcher in the Rye, Harry Potter, Tropic of Cancer, etc.

11. If you have an idea for an art piece involving a crucifix – do it
now.

12. Come out – then go back in – HURRY!

13. Jam in all the Alzheimer’s stem cell research you can.

14. Stay out late before the curfews start!

16. Go see Bruce Springsteen before he has his “accident”.

17. Go see Mount Rushmore before the Reagan addition.

18. Use the phrase – “you can’t do that – this is America”.

19. Take a walk in Yosemite, without being hit by a snowmobile or a
base-jumper.

20. Enroll your kid in an accelerated art or music class.

21. Start your school day without a prayer.

22. Pass on the secrets of evolution to future generations.

23. Learn French.

24. Attend a commitment ceremony with your gay friends.

25. Take a factory tour anywhere in the US.

26. Try to take photographs of animals on the endangered species list.

27. Visit Florida before the polar ice caps melt.

28. Visit Nevada before it becomes radioactive.

29. Visit Alaska before “The Big Spill”.

30. Visit Massachusetts while it is still a State.

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Off topic – Any astrology experts/pundits on the forum?
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:19:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have a friend that understands all this astrology stuff, perhaps if you
emailed it to me I could get her to translate. Although by rights, if I
remember rightly, if it was a friend who did it, get them to explain it to
ya!
Anyway, the offer is there.
Ka Kite (see ya)
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Rachel Radhakrishna [mailto:rachelradha@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 11:39 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off topic – Any astrology experts/pundits on the
forum?

There’s some good star tracking (available in multiple
languages) under “free horoscopes” at
http://www.astro.com/

Mutable just means changeable, so you could call that
quality unstable *if* you like, although flexible,
open, and flowing also apply.  Pisces is a great
sensitive moon to have – internal, psychic, deep.

Reminds me, Lee, that I loved the nebula pictures in
the Amazing Grace book.  Thanks again for posting that
to the List.

love, Rachel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:05:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

bro, i got my self here, no blame game at 54   may have found a sympathetic , knowledgeable doc.  addiction has destroyed my small family and every thing i ever had.  ME
but there are medical issues, i d/n want to be doa
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron

DH:
can you tell me what bouncing messages mean?  i’ve tried to follow protocol but must be missing something. i know little of computers.  i’ forwarding an old message from schmooly with your follow up.  i d/n want to be taken off this list, but do not know what to do to remedy it.  can you help or will you help?  many thanks, ron rwd3@cox.net
—– Original Message —–
From: D H
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron

Tapering slowly is the only way i know of kicking benzo’s.

And Scmooleyboy has a point.

Taking responsibility for yourself is generally a pre-requisite for overcoming any sort of addiction.

then comes the action part, the “doing”.

You’re only ready when you are truly ready.

On Saturday, November 20, 2004, at 07:12 AM, Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:

Ron,
You keep blameing everyone but youyrself. Yes, most doctors suck. But there are good king knowlegable people out there who will help you. If you know what is right for you, why don’t you just do it. You can buy valium or any other benzo on the web without vere seeing a doc.

Do the teper, get a program, deal with the posy acute withdrawal that will last 3-6 months and alas—- you get your life back.

Get off the pity pot, it’s sounding old. I know this is really hard but on some level no matter how you do it, you must pay the piper.

I kinbow numerous folks who are benzo clean because they really wanted it. wanted more then anything else. They did exactly what they where told to do by qualified detox experts who had a proven track record and they made it. was it hell?–yes to some degree. was it worth it? they always say yes.

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Frank’s call for aftercare suggestions
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:59:40 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

does this include 54 yr. olds? ron  it gets harder and there’s more to lose
—– Original Message —– From: <tomo7@starband.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: “John Dore” <dorejj@aol.com>; <pacificozonecompany@yahoo.com>; <sara119@xs4all.nl>; <tom@mapsltd.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 5:34 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Frank’s call for aftercare suggestions

Frank

I look forward to whatever suggestions or links you acquire from this
community. Better results and greater success in beating addiction seems
to hinge on better use of and awareness of all of these tools.

Here is a links page on a drug rehab site that might provide a resource
for ibonauts and providers looking for better tools and results.

http://www.drugrehabcenter.com/natural-health1.html

Lately words have been exchanged as if we have differences between pro
drugs or anti-drugs, or pro some drug users or anti other drug users. I
enjoy these binary dualities like everyone. Intellectual shorthand is
handy. I get nostalgic for younger days when party drugs were so damn fun,
but that was when youthful adrenal glands could rise from the wreckage far
easier. I think most of us are pro-life and existence, anti-death and
anti-annihilation, although that set of colors was stolen by the abortion
or not crowd.

I encourage experienced users to please share the specifics of what works
and what doesn’t, here.  Please tend your reply subject-lines to help us
survey everyone’s content for the more time challenged participants. I
really appreciate the experienced professionals among us helping to keep
terminology and medical details accurate and understandable. The Goddess
has to be giving you points for the help.

For the delicate neurotransmitter balancing act of recovering from
pharmacological or recreational patterns of overuse, addiction or
habituation, I am getting more impressed over time with L-Theanine, as a
200mg. dose taken 2 or 3 times a day away from a protein meal(by an hour).
Google and read up on it. The benzo and SSRI promotional teams will be
jealous when more of you start to learn of it and teach others. I’ve had
clients not need a booster dose of Ibo after using this steadily for a few
weeks.

Cheers.

Dr. Tom

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:46:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i loved hcv and abscess
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez

I still don’t understand- turn it over in my vein? I mean, you have it already in there? So why not simply press it in then without regesitering? Simply to be sure? Seems like a lot of trouble. I mean, I understand that “oh, shit my gear is in that messy goagulating mess!” But to wriggle it around in there in the vein? Egad, that’s pretty bad.
You sicko you.
Or formerly sicko you.
Or probably still sicko just differently sicko or something.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez

Preston, No you don’t take it out after it bends like that you might not get it back in without breaking it off. You have to turn it over in your vein and re- register. Sick ‘aint it?    Randy

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:27:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

when the players aren’t playing by their rules, the judge is a prosecutor and i’m dbl. teamed, yes, not bad stuff. the constitution is not a worthless piece of paper.   20 yrs. and i’m jaded. cops lying(yes they do faith). sounds like you’d give up your bill of right cuz you do no wrong. when cops raid houses with masks, no name tags, they’re not public servants, they’re soldiers.smacks of  argentina and central america. no, i enjoy a good fight, but they don’t play by the rules(surprised?)  welcome to to crim law.  i follow the rules, the man doesn’t.  in china, they can put you in prison for 2 yrs. w/o a trial.  next stop death squads.  all my clients get due process and my best game, i don’t like cops picking on people who can’t fight back. i fight for everyone i represent, guilty or not. but when the “good guys” don’t follow their rules, i take pleasure in whooping them, guilty or not. i’ve walked innocent people that have so much bad karma for past and future deeds.  it’s a cessspool faith. welcome to the real world
—– Original Message —– From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 9:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

You love walking guilty people?  I’m not impressed.  Do you also like to sentence innocent people?

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:11:14 -0600

i am cyber moron. pen ball era. low on the curve. pre pac man and hi tech stuff, put me in a courtroom and i shine. i love walking guilty people when the judge and govt are convinced there’s a guilty coming down and they dbl team me. perverse?  you bet   i do have morals though. i d/n understand computers but am trying to learn    . i have a long ways to go. video games were something that d/n produce enough endorphins.  rather mtn bike ron sky diver , scuba cave certified.adddict—– Original Message —– From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

On Nov 26, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Ron Davis wrote:

no program to open
—– Original Message —– From: <ibogaine-digest-help@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 10:06 AM
Subject: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

Ron … just to ask a crazy question, why are you signed up for the digest and the list, simultaeneously — like, all at once for instance… If you really do want TwicE tHe FuN, and double the joy, far be it from me to argue.

When you doubleclick the digest, whatever box you are using — I’m gonna guess Windoze — does not know what to open it WITH.  It’s just a plain text file; throw it on any text editor like Notepad or whatever, and then it’ll associate that app with the digests, in the future — unless it doesn’t… In which case it won’t work at all, or partially, and only once.  After that, the only other way to get it to work is to put on magickIcaL RubY reD slipPerz and click your heels together three times and say, “I believe!”

Photoz plZ

Patrick

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: sub
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:17:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, All these weeks you where crying about Benzo’s and if Ibo works for benzo’s. You never mentioned the Bup. Whaz up with dat

From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:01:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

stigma can be a blast in moderation.
n$

funny how we romanize the very thing that stripped us all our dignity,
ruined our lives and destroyed everything dear to us, including jobs,
friends and family.  it was fun wasn’t it?   i had a great time watching
friends going to prison for life and a couple on death row. then there
were
the suicides and murder and stealing from parents.  great times. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend

You do that toO!?!?!?!  MMmmmmmmmmm, porno…  <FleX> <fLEx> <bulge>
<Bulge> … touch… run fingers across veins… drift away,
fantasize…
so many places to slam sharp objects…  mmmmmmmMmmmmMmmmmm, you’re
back!
You didn’t collapse, you were just h1iding!!!!

Pardon me, gotta go jack off, I’ve gotten myself all excited.

not mE

beautifully put. Yes, that about sums it up.

For me there is [still] something [sickly] seductive about being in a
shooting gallery, and the resultant warm flood spreading thru my veins,
the taste at the back of my tongue, eyes rolling in ecstacy, bells in my
ears and the thorough pleasure of tobacco to top it all off.

SLAP! ok, enough of that. bad Bad BAD!!!

do i have the [almost] 7 year itch or what?

i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.

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definitely NotMe

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend
Date: December 1, 2004 at 8:55:58 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

funny how we romanize the very thing that stripped us all our dignity, ruined our lives and destroyed everything dear to us, including jobs, friends and family.  it was fun wasn’t it?   i had a great time watching friends going to prison for life and a couple on death row. then there were the suicides and murder and stealing from parents.  great times. ron
—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend

You do that toO!?!?!?!  MMmmmmmmmmm, porno…  <FleX> <fLEx> <bulge>
<Bulge> … touch… run fingers across veins… drift away, fantasize…
so many places to slam sharp objects…  mmmmmmmMmmmmMmmmmm, you’re back!
You didn’t collapse, you were just h1iding!!!!

Pardon me, gotta go jack off, I’ve gotten myself all excited.

not mE

beautifully put. Yes, that about sums it up.

For me there is [still] something [sickly] seductive about being in a shooting gallery, and the resultant warm flood spreading thru my veins, the taste at the back of my tongue, eyes rolling in ecstacy, bells in my ears and the thorough pleasure of tobacco to top it all off.

SLAP! ok, enough of that. bad Bad BAD!!!

do i have the [almost] 7 year itch or what?

i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.

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definitely NotMe

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Off topic – Any astrology experts/pundits on the forum?
Date: December 1, 2004 at 5:39:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There’s some good star tracking (available in multiple
languages) under “free horoscopes” at
http://www.astro.com/

Mutable just means changeable, so you could call that
quality unstable *if* you like, although flexible,
open, and flowing also apply.  Pisces is a great
sensitive moon to have – internal, psychic, deep.

Reminds me, Lee, that I loved the nebula pictures in
the Amazing Grace book.  Thanks again for posting that
to the List.

love, Rachel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:48:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Oops, the more time we should spend with “THEM” not me as previously typoed.
Doh!

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 10:43 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

Heh, I have been Privey to the odd outburst, but yes obviously missed the
grand performance, but as the saying goes, we learn from everybody (no
matter HOW much they rattle our dags.. in fact the more they do, the more
time we should spend with me.. hmmmmm and then there’s reality….)
And hey, star trek roks yes indeedy
Kirsty
Aka capt kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: m.finman [mailto:mafinman@optonline.net]
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 5:05 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue
801

Hi,
I don’t think you were yet onboard for the fiasco with Faith pre
election time, but she reminds me of those perceptually impared kids from an

abusive background who just want to dig in to others 95% of the time and
maybe contribute 1% of the time when she’s been guilted or shamed into it.
Hey if there’s anyone with an unusually high tolerance level for other
peoples bull and letting things roll, that would be me.  However, call it
cosmic timing or whatever,  she struck that cord in me and that sarcastic
bitch that inhabits part of my psyche took over!  Nothing like a good cat
fight, eyh!  See there it is again!  The lesson here for me is that no
matter how often I can maintain my Zen posture, I am only human after all.
Thank you Faith for the insight.  Thank you for the imput.  Ps. I love
startrek.
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue

801

>
> So I’m curious. Where’s the line between an opinion and criticism. Not
> what
> I would necessary refer to as constructive criticism (which cn be a bitch
> if
>
> not ready to hear),but that twist the knife in criticism.  I believe it
> was
> just that thing that was a big part of what prepped me for being a druggie
> and all around dysfunctional person.
> I believe nothing hits a child worse than constant criticism ,from a
> mother
>
> (teamed up with no praise)especially,  I know.   So Faith, how is your son
> anyway!  Just curious, are you able to forgo that habit on xmas in honor
> of
> JC, or are you like that all year round?
>                                                              Martee
> “Martee, I guess we jest gotta have Faith”
> Kirk
>
> —
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 – Release Date: 11/24/2004
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:47:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Stop it!!!!!! I’m supposed to be good!!!
Lol
Should see me when I’m getting a blood test, poor nursies, I have to show em
where to get a vein, not many left to speak of, but I love watching the
blood come out into the syringe, I even get a slight rush.  Geez the mind is
a weird thing when it comes to memory
Kirk.

For me there is [still] something [sickly] seductive about being in a
shooting gallery, and the resultant warm flood spreading thru my veins,
the taste at the back of my tongue, eyes rolling in ecstacy, bells in
my ears and the thorough pleasure of tobacco to top it all off.

SLAP! ok, enough of that. bad Bad BAD!!!

do i have the [almost] 7 year itch or what?

i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.

repeat and _.fade

definitely NotMe

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 – Release Date: 11/24/2004


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:43:27 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, I have been Privey to the odd outburst, but yes obviously missed the
grand performance, but as the saying goes, we learn from everybody (no
matter HOW much they rattle our dags.. in fact the more they do, the more
time we should spend with me.. hmmmmm and then there’s reality….)
And hey, star trek roks yes indeedy
Kirsty
Aka capt kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: m.finman [mailto:mafinman@optonline.net]
Sent: Thursday, 2 December 2004 5:05 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue
801

Hi,
I don’t think you were yet onboard for the fiasco with Faith pre
election time, but she reminds me of those perceptually impared kids from an

abusive background who just want to dig in to others 95% of the time and
maybe contribute 1% of the time when she’s been guilted or shamed into it.
Hey if there’s anyone with an unusually high tolerance level for other
peoples bull and letting things roll, that would be me.  However, call it
cosmic timing or whatever,  she struck that cord in me and that sarcastic
bitch that inhabits part of my psyche took over!  Nothing like a good cat
fight, eyh!  See there it is again!  The lesson here for me is that no
matter how often I can maintain my Zen posture, I am only human after all.
Thank you Faith for the insight.  Thank you for the imput.  Ps. I love
startrek.
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue

801

So I’m curious. Where’s the line between an opinion and criticism. Not
what
I would necessary refer to as constructive criticism (which cn be a bitch
if

not ready to hear),but that twist the knife in criticism.  I believe it
was
just that thing that was a big part of what prepped me for being a druggie
and all around dysfunctional person.
I believe nothing hits a child worse than constant criticism ,from a
mother

(teamed up with no praise)especially,  I know.   So Faith, how is your son
anyway!  Just curious, are you able to forgo that habit on xmas in honor
of
JC, or are you like that all year round?
Martee
“Martee, I guess we jest gotta have Faith”
Kirk


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 – Release Date: 11/24/2004

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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/


Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 – Release Date: 11/24/2004


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.801 / Virus Database: 544 – Release Date: 11/24/2004

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend
Date: December 1, 2004 at 3:54:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

gotta come back down from this cloud….
oh, sorry, is that the right tune?

Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend

You do that toO!?!?!?!  MMmmmmmmmmm, porno…  <FleX> <fLEx> <bulge>
<Bulge> … touch… run fingers across veins… drift away, fantasize…
so many places to slam sharp objects…  mmmmmmmMmmmmMmmmmm, you’re back!
You didn’t collapse, you were just h1iding!!!!

Pardon me, gotta go jack off, I’ve gotten myself all excited.

not mE

beautifully put. Yes, that about sums it up.

For me there is [still] something [sickly] seductive about being in a shooting gallery, and the resultant warm flood spreading thru my veins, the taste at the back of my tongue, eyes rolling in ecstacy, bells in my ears and the thorough pleasure of tobacco to top it all off.

SLAP! ok, enough of that. bad Bad BAD!!!

do i have the [almost] 7 year itch or what?

i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.

repeat and _.fade

definitely NotMe

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 1, 2004 at 3:53:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for the information Howard.

Julie, I don’t have enough experience to say but I have read Hattie Wells’s write up before with interest at this “anomaly.” It’s something I hope to get a better feel of with time and perhaps even try and get some guidance on. For now I have verged towards the safe end to see if the experiences are sufficiently powerful and rewarding at the reduced dose. I will say this. Of 4 people I recently ran mini sessions the experience was psychologically more challenging for the males than the females who were on a 10% less dose. Yet the females reported deep satisfaction in what they experienced.

There is obviously something to what Hattie says – she would not say it otherwise. On the other hand it may be that the females in my group were more open to seeing? I don’t really know right now.

Also, as Howard points out each person reacts differently which is why I advocate: Beginners Begin Low. In this way we can get a better personalised picture and step up the dose in a future session or maybe step back depending ……….

Right now its a case of better safe than sorry. I don’t want to tip someone into a full session who is not prepared for it.

Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

>On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga
>wrote:
>>Hi Lee,
>>
>>I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
>>that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
>>digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
>>treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
>>women generally require MORE!
>
>Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine. As Deborah Mash is the only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not shared or published
that data, the question remains open. My experience is opposite Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all women. Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four hours out and
the other at one hour out. The third who did not have a cardiac disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out. Based on general safety doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses. In continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than 20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness proper doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes. Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses in some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or women. This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

>Hi Lee,
>
>I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
>that you give LESS Ibogaine to women! I have been
>digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
>treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
>women generally require MORE! In the words of Hattie
>Wells, UK Ibo provider:
>
>”…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
>of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
>are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
>men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
>the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
>pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
>they tripped less and generally were up and walking
>and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
>majority of female subjects I treated they also
>claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
>thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
>These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
>a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
>thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”
>
>She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
>rate, or perhaps estrogen. For me personally, I
>believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
>ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
>2nd HCL experience. Both times, I began to experience
>withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
>against almost everything I had read and processed
>about Ibogaine.
>
>In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
>document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:
>
>http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html
>
>I found her experiences treating people seemed to
>’gel’ with my own experience of being treated. I
>would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
>have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….
>
>love, Julie 🙂

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Off topic – Any astrology experts/pundits on the forum?
Date: December 1, 2004 at 2:52:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

Please forgive me for posting such off-topic material,
but one of my buddies( a raging New-Ager) just emailed
me my natal chart with no attached explanations, and I
don’t understand a bit of it.  I have a fire Sun sign,
but was surprised to learn that Water/Mutable
elements(mostly fire/water) predominate my chart.
Have no Earth, and only one Air!!!  And a moon in
Pisces!

I’m wondering if someone can put this into
perspective…I think I understand the subtext of the
Element groups, but am certainly not an expert.  What
is a mutable element?  Also, did a bit of reading on
the subject, and god- my astrological orientation
makes me sound like a, er, flakey unstable freak!
Well actually, there might be something to that…  😉

Martee, Rachel….I have a feeling either of you might
know a little bit about astrology…can I kindly bend
your ear for a spell?

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez ::: C0nFessunZ of an [ex]dopefiend
Date: December 1, 2004 at 2:48:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You do that toO!?!?!?!  MMmmmmmmmmm, porno…  <FleX> <fLEx> <bulge>
<Bulge> … touch… run fingers across veins… drift away, fantasize…
so many places to slam sharp objects…  mmmmmmmMmmmmMmmmmm, you’re back!
You didn’t collapse, you were just h1iding!!!!

Pardon me, gotta go jack off, I’ve gotten myself all excited.

not mE

beautifully put. Yes, that about sums it up.

For me there is [still] something [sickly] seductive about being in a shooting gallery, and the resultant warm flood spreading thru my veins, the taste at the back of my tongue, eyes rolling in ecstacy, bells in my ears and the thorough pleasure of tobacco to top it all off.

SLAP! ok, enough of that. bad Bad BAD!!!

do i have the [almost] 7 year itch or what?

i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.
i will not fantasize about shooting up.

repeat and _.fade

definitely NotMe

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:50:45 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I still don’t understand- turn it over in my vein? I mean, you have it already in there? So why not simply press it in then without regesitering? Simply to be sure? Seems like a lot of trouble. I mean, I understand that “oh, shit my gear is in that messy goagulating mess!” But to wriggle it around in there in the vein? Egad, that’s pretty bad.
You sicko you.
Or formerly sicko you.
Or probably still sicko just differently sicko or something.
;-))

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez

Preston, No you don’t take it out after it bends like that you might not get it back in without breaking it off. You have to turn it over in your vein and re- register. Sick ‘aint it?    Randy

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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:34:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Dec 01, 2004 at 08:40:44AM -1000], [D H] wrote:

| >Dave,
| >
| >He really was a saint.  He was not dropping the cottons for himself
| >but, for
| >you and they were sterile.  He made sure of it.
| >
| >Howard
|
| in a cosmic sense, yeah they were for me. Sterile? LOL.
|
| BTW, my veins have started to come back. I like to clench my first look
| at them. Sick.

You do that toO!?!?!?!  MMmmmmmmmmm, porno…  <FleX> <fLEx> <bulge>
<Bulge> … touch… run fingers across veins… drift away, fantasize…
so many places to slam sharp objects…  mmmmmmmMmmmmMmmmmm, you’re back!
You didn’t collapse, you were just h1iding!!!!

Pardon me, gotta go jack off, I’ve gotten myself all excited.

not mE

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:40:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dave,

He really was a saint.  He was not dropping the cottons for himself but, for
you and they were sterile.  He made sure of it.

Howard

in a cosmic sense, yeah they were for me. Sterile? LOL.

BTW, my veins have started to come back. I like to clench my first look at them. Sick.

_.dh

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:37:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

yep, the TL consumed me as well. didn’t do much scoring of dope on the streets of TL, just crack and clonopin (Eddy/Hyde, Turk, Jones, blah blah blah). Me hombres delivered from the outer mission/daly city. Most street copping I did from 16th to 24th, Valencia to Harrison. I was outta there in like 95 so I missed the whole Oxy scene.

The haunt previously described was the St Claire Hotel, above the 101 Bar on Van Ness and Fern Alley (known to some as BoyToy Alley). Some rich chick bought the place, evicted all the dopefiends and now it’s nice apartments. I doubt they ever got rid of the roaches, tho. I suppose that was the western edge of the TL.

_.dh

On Tuesday, November 30, 2004, at 09:15 PM, nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:

dave – the t3nd3rl01n was where everything went sour for me. going from
user to junky. (16th and mission proved to be asskicking grounds for small
white boys ca. 6 months ago)  i used to sleep with a mexican girl with
gold caps on her front teeth for junk she would steal from her
boyfriend/my dealer. he found out about this – went ape shit, and got
arrested before he ever confronted me about it. this was at the spaulding
hotel – ofarrell and powell (i always thought of that as the outskirts of
the TL)
memories.

“tiene chiva, guay? uno blanca y dos negra para vente dolares??”

little spanish goes a long way in the TL. you still live in sf/bay area?

n

getting loaded behind the wheel… reminds me of copping and firing up,
then driving back north in the suicide lane the the golden gate bridge,
nodding out behind the wheel and plowing thru the flimsy dividing
pylons into oncoming traffic, narrowly averting head-ons. Not exactly
fun, or thoughtful. Vista point was my landing zone, if I made it there
I was safe. obviously i did, many a time. I don’t know how or why, it
was as if I were in a bullet proof bubble.

Then there was the time i went to cop from a junkie in a hotel in the
tenderloin. I just had a baby habit, and was only smoking my dope on
foil. I had instructions to go to the 6th floor, room 602 and knock 5
times softly. When the door opened i was horrified at what lay beyond.
Piles of dirty laundry, beer cans and cigarette buts and ashes
everywhere, blood stains on the wall and ceiling and it stank of detox
sweat and cum and beer and cigarettes. There was a path that went from
the door to the bed, and from the bed to the sink in the corner. The
rest was piled knee-waist high with junk. I was appalled anyone could
live like that. eventually, I would stay to get loaded, and when I
became homeless I crashed there. I sank lower than this person, because
I couldn’t even get it together to have a pad of my own. I would steal
his dope in a heartbeat, yet this person would lie sick for 3 days
waiting for someone to come by and send him out to cop so he could get
well. He had the integrity of a saint, which amazed me. This was a
junkie with ethics, don’t ever steal, don’t ever get off till you are
home and safe. Any bathro

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:22:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/1/04 10:45:02 AM, slowone@hush.ai writes:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women!  I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In preclinical research females in some species of rats and mice show higher
plasma levels for ibogaine and noribogaine.  As Deborah Mash is the only
person with clinical data on plasma levels in blood and has not shared or published
that data, the question remains open.  My experience is opposite Hattie Wells
in that I find women better responders but, that may not be a matter of dose.
I will see if I can obtain a perspective on this from African providers.
What we do know is that the three ibogaine fatalities were all women.  Two who
had cardiac disorders had fatal responses at 8mg/kg, one a four hours out and
the other at one hour out.  The third who did not have a cardiac disorder had a
fatal reaction a 29mg/kg at 16 hours out.  Based on general safety doses today
are usually 20mg/kg or lower when provided as single doses.  In continued
dose regimens where the dose is added to every hour or every few hours or even
over a period of a day or more, the mg/kg may be higher than 20mg/kg. I am
providing information, not indicating with any assuredness proper doses in women.

While not taking blood levels of ibogaine and noribogaine the Ibogaine
Association may be able to respond on how women respond to doses compared to men and
whether or not they provide the same doses to both sexes.  Additionally, as
some persons metabolize ibogaine differently than others, doses in some men or
some women may have different effects than in other men or women.  This is
common to all drugs.

Howard

In a message dated 12/1/04 12:05:00 PM, ms_iboga@yahoo.com writes:

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women!  I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!  In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen.  For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience.  Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated.  I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 12:46:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, No you don’t take it out after it bends like that you might not get it back in without breaking it off. You have to turn it over in your vein and re- register. Sick ‘aint it?    Randy

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 11:05:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,
I don’t think you were yet onboard for the fiasco with Faith pre election time, but she reminds me of those perceptually impared kids from an abusive background who just want to dig in to others 95% of the time and maybe contribute 1% of the time when she’s been guilted or shamed into it. Hey if there’s anyone with an unusually high tolerance level for other peoples bull and letting things roll, that would be me.  However, call it cosmic timing or whatever,  she struck that cord in me and that sarcastic bitch that inhabits part of my psyche took over!  Nothing like a good cat fight, eyh!  See there it is again!  The lesson here for me is that no matter how often I can maintain my Zen posture, I am only human after all. Thank you Faith for the insight.  Thank you for the imput.  Ps. I love startrek.
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 4:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

So I’m curious. Where’s the line between an opinion and criticism. Not what
I would necessary refer to as constructive criticism (which cn be a bitch if

not ready to hear),but that twist the knife in criticism.  I believe it was
just that thing that was a big part of what prepped me for being a druggie
and all around dysfunctional person.
I believe nothing hits a child worse than constant criticism ,from a mother

(teamed up with no praise)especially,  I know.   So Faith, how is your son
anyway!  Just curious, are you able to forgo that habit on xmas in honor of
JC, or are you like that all year round?
Martee
“Martee, I guess we jest gotta have Faith”
Kirk


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 1, 2004 at 11:00:35 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen wanted me to let you know, he is not addicted any longer to Methadone , Heroin, nicotine and sugar.
He spend the day/night in Utrecht next to a massage/sauna place.
Yesterday evening he got some Mushrooms and slept 7 hours. He said the shrooms helped him emotionally.
The shrooms helped the Iboga experience ,it gives some more understanding  of the self. it wasn’t like a LSD trip
But an emotional trip.

Randy, Jasen took the root bark extracted. I think the HCL is easier to work with,  mg/kg and it should work.
You need to take less substance and only one alkaloid which makes the process  easier to understand.

Sara
Van: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 1 december 2004 0:03
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Jasen, I wish that taking Iboga was an option here, I for one would like to do some research on the differences. I think it is a problem of logistics for the reason to use Ibogaine. Hcl. doesn’t take up that much room therefore it is easier to conceal. Did you take Indra or root bark? I sure would like to see Sara at work.      Randy

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Breathing
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:49:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 06:02:56 -0800 Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
In that case what is the point of printing a statement about
unknown deaths in hotel rooms?
Is it to demonise the underground ibogaine movement???

Ask the author & Dr. Mash. It certainly makes a full-on medical
team working openly sound attractive. 🙂  :-/

But the reality is:

Do you know that between 5,000 and 10,000 people (at least) die
each year in the UK alone from prescription drugs?
How many people would die from od’s if ibogaine were not
available?
It is also possible to die from water and practically any know
substance if used incorrectly. Perhaps all sports should be banned

due to the possibility of cardiac arrest?
Its about using the substance properly and like water, ibogaine is

life giving.
In all honesty, Mash is probably stating a fact that someone has
died because of being improperly attended to or not being suitable

for treatment as you so eloquently explained in your earlier post.

However, all that says is that people need to be informed and
aware of the risks and to use providers that are known to be
reliable. I also sense she may be exaggerating as I imagine she
may be aware of just one case for that matter. Maybe not.
The real discussion of course is possibility of life.

P.S. I am not hitting out at you. I am hitting out at the
ignorance that is holding back a very powerful healing substance
and playing politics with peoples lives.

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:51:42 -0800 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I want to see the FACTS. Going on supposition doesn’t cut it with

me. I’ve
been a junkie or an alcoholic almost all of my life I think I
know

there are
unscrupulous people in the world. I’ve been reading this list and

everything else
I can find about Ibogaine for a year and a half. Do I act like I
don’t have
the capacity to retain facts or something? I can’t cosign
bullshit

for anybody.
Randy

What facts, Randy? I don’t think there are any generally-known
cases of an ibogaine provider abandoning a dead patient, or
leaving
a patient to die, speaking from having looked at 99% of the
ibogaine list traffic since the net was created. Such a thing may
have never occurred. If it did, it is possible that no one but the

provider knows. I find it more interesting to use this issue to
think about what one would do in the situation, for anyone
considering administering ibogaine.

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:42:41 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 07:00:56 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women!  I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!

Hmm, I thought it was less too – Howard?

In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen.  For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience.  Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated.  I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

__________________________________________________
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Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Breathing
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:34:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sloeone was asking for thought on what if we were the provider. I would use the blood pressure monitor my Mamma has to check his pressure periodically and call an ambulance at the first sign of a heart problem for one thing. Now what is the first sign of heart problems? Kind of subjective at this point. Some things are expected and some aren’t. Here’s where the ethics come in. I’d already have oxygen on him when the paramedics get there. This guy would have trusted me with his life. I don’t take that shit lightly. This is assuming it was a heart problem. How do we know he didn’t shoot his regular dose and OD because the Ibogaine put his tolerance back to normal? Ethics again. I wouldn’t leave him until he had someone else to sit with him and a witness to the fact that he was OK when I left. I wonder if some kind of release form would hold any water? It’s all about perspective. How many people OD or die from drug related problems every day? The patient has to weigh that out and make his own decision. Hind sight is 20 20 and we learn something every day. I think I would take the heat. The publicity wouldn’t be all bad if it was defended right. We ought to have a plan in place. Not that I would do anything illegal or anything. Just sayin’ (big shrug) Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:14:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

brilliant, thanks Randy.
But I don’t understand the “gotta turn it over” thing. What do you mean, you took out the needle and turned it over?

Peace and love,
Preston
“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez

OK, here’s mine. We’re going to Buffalo to cop a couple of bundles. Maybe I ought to just eat this last 80 so it lasts longer and for some reason we can’t cop. Yea right. (bang) That’s better but boy this rig is getting dull. I gotta get another one. I ought to break the point off so I don’t use it again. (yea right again) Better hurry up and get Lemmy (name changed to protect the truly fucked) before he leaves without me. On the way over driving I can see the tracks in my hand when I turn the wheel. Lemmy finaly comes to the door with a familiar glaze in his eyes. I saved you 3 20’s if you want them for the ride up. I thank him as I pop ’em in my mouth to get the covering off so I can shoot them. Maybe I ought to snort two and keep one for just in case. That shit flies out the window when I crush them and put heat on them in a spoon. Just enough water. Man this point is killing me and I can see my skin resist as I try and shove the point through it into my vein. I feel that pop and I can see the blood jump into fit. When I pull it out it feels like a fish hook catching on the barb coming out. “Lemmy, you got any rigs” I ask as I draw water through it to clean it out? “No man and we have to hurry cause Donny (name changed to protect the recently incarcerated) is going and he knows that guy with the good stuff, come on”. We get to Buffalo and cop. I ask Donny if he has any fits and he says “no man but you can use this one, its pretty new” so I thank him all the same and try and knock the barb off of the fit with a matchbook cover. We’re sitting in the parking lot at Burger Scream (name changed to protect the nutritionally challenged) and everyone has gotten off but me. At this point I’m thinkin’ how many junkies does it take to shoot up with a ten penny nail as I try and shove the needle into my wrist vein for the 6th time. I’m pushing hard and all of a sudden the needle bends at a right angle and I’m sitting there looking at it as the blood starts to congeal in the fit. You got to turn it over man they are saying and I’m wishing I hadn’t put two bags in cause I don’t want to lose them. I do it and it works and as I pull the fish hook out of my vein I’m thinking “we have to hurry if we’re going to be on time for work and why am I cleaning out this fit again”? That’s when it hits me. This IS good stuff. Guess we aint gonna be on time for work.      Nodding out in Buffalo       Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) new book contract
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:09:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL,
No, probably not Lee, as those are current events, not ancient history.
😉

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) new book contract

Preston,
Congratulations!
Does this mean that you will be writing about the aliens that are staying at my place?
Lee

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all, as I just posted (in slightly different form) on Jules Siegel’s
awesome journalism list
Newsroom-L:

Because I consider everyone here compatriots and fellow travelers and
even some of you good friends of mine whether we’ve met face to face or not
(even if you’re not a druggie or an addict or even all that interested in
anything I’m doing personally, you’re subscribed here so you rate- and I’ve
always found it a bit weird this internet thing, in how I can make friends I
never see face to face all over the world, much more readily that ever could
be done with simply old fashioned mail, right?), I have to let loose here
with a wee little bit of crowing-

I signed a new book contact today! YAAAAAAA!

I know, it sound like I’m bragging but I’m not, but I am very excited
and thrilled and happy and ecstatic and overjoy! ed and all the rest of the
emotions that come from obtaining an official contact and meager advance.
(Can’t wait ’til I get one of those infamous 6 digit advances I’ve read
about here and there- but don’t see that coming anytime soon anyway, darn
it.)
It hasn’t a single thing to do with anything I’m known for writing and
researching, like drugs or prohbition say, but it’s a topic(s) I love and
have been working very hard on already these past couple of weeks (so how in
the heck I can be going through the irritating hassles I’ve been putting
myself as noted on the ibogaine list is beyond me still- but I’m making
plans and trying to arrest my undevelopement as soon and fast as possible,
including being extremely open with V again, contrary to what I wrote on the
ibo list recently- if anyone on DrugWar wants more details ask and I might
fill you all in).
So, if anyone here has knowlege of ancient lost civilizations,
technologi! es and/or mysteries, I’d be more than happy to read any
submissions anyone cares to submit to me between now and March 15, 2005. The
book, tentatively titled “Mysterious Roots- the Disinformation Guide to Lost
Civilizations, Technologies and Mysteries,” is slated for release next Fall,
2005.
Ok, thanks for letting me crow a bit here, and carry on all.
(So Paula, is this happy enough news for you? ;-)) )

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions- Women patients
Date: December 1, 2004 at 10:00:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,

I was reading your post, and was struck by the fact
that you give LESS Ibogaine to women!  I have been
digesting vast quantities of information about Ibo
treatment, and thought the common consensus was that
women generally require MORE!  In the words of Hattie
Wells, UK Ibo provider:

“…As I have mentioned previously, from my experience
of treating women with ibogaine it seems that women
are generally not affected as strongly by ibogaine as
men. There was definitely a difference in reaction to
the substance by the genders…I began noticing a
pattern. Generally ibogaine did not hit women as hard,
they tripped less and generally were up and walking
and talking much quicker than men. In fact in the
majority of female subjects I treated they also
claimed to be experiencing withdrawal symptoms and
thereby complaining that the ibogaine wasn’t working.
These results indicate perhaps a faster metabolism and
a quick conversion of ibogaine into noribogaine
thereby reducing the oneiric phase…”

She theorized that this could be due to metabolic
rate, or perhaps estrogen.  For me personally, I
believe my body ripped through the Iboga at a
ridiculously accelerated rate, especially during my
2nd HCL experience.  Both times, I began to experience
withdrawal symptoms at the 14 hour mark, which went
against almost everything I had read and processed
about Ibogaine.

In case you’re interested, here is a link to Hattie’s
document “Notes for Ibogaine Providers”:

http://www.ibogaine.org/wells.html

I found her experiences treating people seemed to
‘gel’ with my own experience of being treated.  I
would be interested in hearing from other ladies who
have undergone Ibo detox/therapy….

love, Julie 🙂

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:51:34 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OK, here’s mine. We’re going to Buffalo to cop a couple of bundles. Maybe I ought to just eat this last 80 so it lasts longer and for some reason we can’t cop. Yea right. (bang) That’s better but boy this rig is getting dull. I gotta get another one. I ought to break the point off so I don’t use it again. (yea right again) Better hurry up and get Lemmy (name changed to protect the truly fucked) before he leaves without me. On the way over driving I can see the tracks in my hand when I turn the wheel. Lemmy finaly comes to the door with a familiar glaze in his eyes. I saved you 3 20’s if you want them for the ride up. I thank him as I pop ’em in my mouth to get the covering off so I can shoot them. Maybe I ought to snort two and keep one for just in case. That shit flies out the window when I crush them and put heat on them in a spoon. Just enough water. Man this point is killing me and I can see my skin resist as I try and shove the point through it into my vein. I feel that pop and I can see the blood jump into fit. When I pull it out it feels like a fish hook catching on the barb coming out. “Lemmy, you got any rigs” I ask as I draw water through it to clean it out? “No man and we have to hurry cause Donny (name changed to protect the recently incarcerated) is going and he knows that guy with the good stuff, come on”. We get to Buffalo and cop. I ask Donny if he has any fits and he says “no man but you can use this one, its pretty new” so I thank him all the same and try and knock the barb off of the fit with a matchbook cover. We’re sitting in the parking lot at Burger Scream (name changed to protect the nutritionally challenged) and everyone has gotten off but me. At this point I’m thinkin’ how many junkies does it take to shoot up with a ten penny nail as I try and shove the needle into my wrist vein for the 6th time. I’m pushing hard and all of a sudden the needle bends at a right angle and I’m sitting there looking at it as the blood starts to congeal in the fit. You got to turn it over man they are saying and I’m wishing I hadn’t put two bags in cause I don’t want to lose them. I do it and it works and as I pull the fish hook out of my vein I’m thinking “we have to hurry if we’re going to be on time for work and why am I cleaning out this fit again”? That’s when it hits me. This IS good stuff. Guess we aint gonna be on time for work.      Nodding out in Buffalo       Randy

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) new book contract
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:33:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,

That’s f*cking awesome, man!!  You are one of the rare
people who get to live their dream- to do exactly what
they want to do in the time they are given by Life.

Reminds me of that scene from Easy Rider, when our
protagonists are scarfing dinner in Texas.  Captain
America looks around, surveys the scene, and tells the
substinence farmer: ” You do your own thing, in your
own time; you should be proud.”

Same applies to you….

Julie 🙂

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Timeframes Post Treatment
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:14:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

Having read in a few places about the time frame post treatment for rough patches and good patches, I am curious if there are any general guidelines on the timescales of post-drug-interruption treatment highs and lows? When can you say that a person is out of the woods in the immediate weeks following treatment? Anyone want to enlighten me on that?

Also, does anyone know about what doses are used for nicotine addiction interruption? Does nicotine follow the same time scales? Can these scales be generalised re: the major effects of any physical addiction?

Thanks,

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Breathing
Date: December 1, 2004 at 9:02:56 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In that case what is the point of printing a statement about unknown deaths in hotel rooms?
Is it to demonise the underground ibogaine movement???
Do you know that between 5,000 and 10,000 people (at least) die each year in the UK alone from prescription drugs?
How many people would die from od’s if ibogaine were not available?
It is also possible to die from water and practically any know substance if used incorrectly. Perhaps all sports should be banned due to the possibility of cardiac arrest?
Its about using the substance properly and like water, ibogaine is life giving.
In all honesty, Mash is probably stating a fact that someone has died because of being improperly attended to or not being suitable for treatment as you so eloquently explained in your earlier post. However, all that says is that people need to be informed and aware of the risks and to use providers that are known to be reliable. I also sense she may be exaggerating as I imagine she may be aware of just one case for that matter. Maybe not.
The real discussion of course is possibility of life.

P.S. I am not hitting out at you. I am hitting out at the ignorance that is holding back a very powerful healing substance and playing politics with peoples lives.

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:51:42 -0800 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
>I want to see the FACTS. Going on supposition doesn’t cut it with
>me. I’ve
>been a junkie or an alcoholic almost all of my life I think I know

>there are
>unscrupulous people in the world. I’ve been reading this list and
>everything else
>I can find about Ibogaine for a year and a half. Do I act like I
>don’t have
>the capacity to retain facts or something? I can’t cosign bullshit

>for anybody.
> Randy

What facts, Randy? I don’t think there are any generally-known
cases of an ibogaine provider abandoning a dead patient, or leaving
a patient to die, speaking from having looked at 99% of the
ibogaine list traffic since the net was created. Such a thing may
have never occurred. If it did, it is possible that no one but the
provider knows. I find it more interesting to use this issue to
think about what one would do in the situation, for anyone
considering administering ibogaine.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] New report suggests U.S. is losing the war on drugs
Date: December 1, 2004 at 8:59:15 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/drugwar1e_20041201.htm

New report suggests U.S. is losing the war on drugs
December 1, 2004
WASHINGTON — Prices for cocaine and heroin have reached 20-year lows, according to a report released Tuesday.
The Washington Office on Latin America, which usually is critical of U.S. policies in Latin America, said the low prices called into question the effectiveness of the two-decade U.S. war on drugs.
A White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the numbers were old and didn’t reflect recent efforts in Colombia to curb drug cultivation.
The Washington Office on Latin America, citing the White House’s Office of National Drug Control Policy, said the street price of 2 grams of cocaine averaged $106 in the first half of 2003, down 14 percent from the previous year’s average and the lowest price in 20 years.
An official at the Office of National Drug Control Policy confirmed the figures, which haven’t been publicly released.
snip-

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] (OT) new book contract
Date: December 1, 2004 at 8:42:39 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston,
Congratulations!
Does this mean that you will be writing about the aliens that are staying at my place?
Lee

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Hi all, as I just posted (in slightly different form) on Jules Siegel’s
awesome journalism list
Newsroom-L:

Because I consider everyone here compatriots and fellow travelers and
even some of you good friends of mine whether we’ve met face to face or not
(even if you’re not a druggie or an addict or even all that interested in
anything I’m doing personally, you’re subscribed here so you rate- and I’ve
always found it a bit weird this internet thing, in how I can make friends I
never see face to face all over the world, much more readily that ever could
be done with simply old fashioned mail, right?), I have to let loose here
with a wee little bit of crowing-

I signed a new book contact today! YAAAAAAA!

I know, it sound like I’m bragging but I’m not, but I am very excited
and thrilled and happy and ecstatic and overjoyed and all the rest of the
emotions that come from obtaining an official contact and meager advance.
(Can’t wait ’til I get one of those infamous 6 digit advances I’ve read
about here and there- but don’t see that coming anytime soon anyway, darn
it.)
It hasn’t a single thing to do with anything I’m known for writing and
researching, like drugs or prohbition say, but it’s a topic(s) I love and
have been working very hard on already these past couple of weeks (so how in
the heck I can be going through the irritating hassles I’ve been putting
myself as noted on the ibogaine list is beyond me still- but I’m making
plans and trying to arrest my undevelopement as soon and fast as possible,
including being extremely open with V again, contrary to what I wrote on the
ibo list recently- if anyone on DrugWar wants more details ask and I might
fill you all in).
So, if anyone here has knowlege of ancient lost civilizations,
technologies and/or mysteries, I’d be more than happy to read any
submissions anyone cares to submit to me between now and March 15, 2005. The
book, tentatively titled “Mysterious Roots- the Disinformation Guide to Lost
Civilizations, Technologies and Mysteries,” is slated for release next Fall,
2005.
Ok, thanks for letting me crow a bit here, and carry on all.
(So Paula, is this happy enough news for you? ;-)) )

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Low dose Ibogaine Sessions
Date: December 1, 2004 at 8:24:07 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI Sandy,

A low dose session does depend on the person i.e. have you done eboga/ibogaine before, where are you in your healing process, what is your true intention, and of course do you have the open heartedness, discernment and sprinkling of humility which allows the soul to manifest and the ego to take a back seat. Otherwise I would be looking to begin with a high dose session to disable the ego if it is a major problem and to clear the ground a bit.

However, that said, in my experience (which is still in an early stage vis a vis helping others in this area), a low dose session of 6mg and 10% less for a woman, usually proceeds like this (for a new comer to eboga/ibogaine):

1. All the commendations still apply regarding fasting etc. However I say to people that you can drink a few drops here and there in the hours leading up to the session as it acts to quench the thirst and prevent uncomfortableness. Its always good to be as empty as possible in the digestive tracts as the energy pushes down on that area. (Fruit & juices for breakfast maybe and begin in the evening. No liquids for at least 6 hours before or more.)

2. All the physical effects are the same (as a full session) but on a lesser scale. You can get up but you feel quite wossy etc. Its very important to be very calm in the first couple of hours to get past the initial reaction to throw up at the beginning. If you feel this coming on breathe deeply and rhytmically until it passes. It can occur quite easily at the beginning as the deep feelings are suddenly touch on. Its also aggrevated by movement.

3. At the time of ingestion I recommend drinking a full glass or two of liquid to help the dissolving of the eboga/ibogaine. (With the dehydration in progress from fasting this quickens the uptake also of the eboga/ibogaine). Perhaps a cup of relaxing herbal tea is in order at this time. In the 40 mins to 1 hr prior to onset, pee as much as possible and be prepared for the possible need at some stage to pee during the session. As the physical effects are less this is not a major problem.

4.My own approach with a first time initiate is, I use the time after the ingestion of the eboga/ ibogaine to converse and allow the initiate to talk or ramble into his or her past and present. As they are usually my friend its not a problem. I try to guide to the areas where I sense some discord or uneasiness. This of course is then picked up by the eboga energy as the energy grows and then the Eboga spirit takes over from this point of departure. The advantage in this is that the person (first timer) feels safer and more relaxed (connected to a human) and is not shocked by the commencement of the energy and where it suddenly takes them as the energy hits while they are still connected to me. (As they are entering a new domain of experience).

5. Having said all that if someone rathers to mediate or be with themself that is also fine.

Session in progress:

I find at present that it is characterised by the unravelling of stored memories offering differing insights to help the person understand their past history in general, especially any periods of the past where they feel confused about or cut off from – where the person can face them. The memories come in overlap and in bits and pieces which is a way to outwit the ego and yet transfer the knowledge.

It is like an introduction or initiation into Eboga and it is tailored to the person themselves. If someone can face uncomfortable truths they will most likely be presented in the context of an overall “moment of reflection in ones life” i.e. the eboga mini session There can be heavy moments and yet these depend on the person’s ability to face them at that time. The end result is always a sense of deep insight & direction for future inner work i.e. a kind of personal gameplan. Its a very intelligent process as though one is being handled by an array of spirit guides – which is in fact the case. They (the spirit guides) are able to see the future and the past and know exactly what will benefit you in that moment. There are there via the energy of the Eboga spirit.

Sessions after major-Session:

This is somewhat different and in my own case it usually is based on the synchronistic events in my life at that moment i.e they reflect the stage I am at in my healing and thus act as the catalyst for the area that needs healing at that moment or put another way: the area open to healing at that moment. If a lot of pain is involved, drop right into it and wait. It will pass and you may experience a deep, deep or accelerated healing or you may have to return again to the same pain in a later session. Yet, I do think it also depends on the person and whether or not the appropriate lessons have been learned. What I mean is that the intention has to be there to learn and to move to a position of love. With those intentions accelerated healing occurs and one can note this intention in the way one seeks to understand oneself and others in a loving way. That does not exclude justified anger etc.

Intervention:

I do check once or twice during the session on the mental state of the person to ensure that they are not unnecessarily running away from themselves and entering some kind of ego loop or are not in some place they cannot handle. I remind them beforehand that there is intention involved in facing what ails you and that success does depend on this willingness. In the session I may gently guide them back on track if I feel it will be of hel – generally it is not necessaryp. Otherwise I simply leave them be and give reassurance/encouragement at that moment of checking or respond to any question they may have.

This is very different to full scale sessions.

Post-Session Problems:

Here is the crunch. If one is dealing with an arrogant individual (reflects imo pain / lonliness / anger) then instead of moving towards the heart after a session they can move towards the head which is more a reflection of pain than anything else. (In full sessions such a move is very normal regardless of the person as usually a lot more material has been broken into). However, it is problematic and one has to be careful in how one deals with that. I recommend anyone who comes out of a session feeling sad or hurt to explore their feelings and to undergo as much emotional release as possible. Otherwise a return to the head is inevitable to use thoughts to secrete ego induced endorphins to eleviate the pain. It may not be avoidable.

Time of Session:

Usually about 12 hours for a first timer but can carry on in fits and starts for the next 6 hours or so. (The overall energy is there – not as noticeable – for the same duration as the full session). Once the major part is over I recommend strongly to lie on your bed and as you go in and out of sleep record the memories which resurface from the session. You will be amazed at how much returns. Its like another stage of the process and I would now go as far as to say that this is another stage of the Eboga session: Recall. Perhaps phase 3. (See below – perhaps this is better handled at the 24 to 36 hour period?)

This is very important. To those who have little tolerance for ego work, I would say you are making a big mistake imo. Healing is a holistic process and the ego is not the same as the soul yet it is part of who we are – it is the engine of the temple we inhabit. Everything we do is a combination of the two and so if the ego is unhealed, once we enter it to use it (in conjuction with our soul) it is immediately vulnerable and we are compromised by its unhealed state.

Make these notes as they will be the basis for the next phase of healing within the Eboga Process.

Set & Setting:

I like to play tropical rain forest music in the background and to be as comfortable as possible with little or no light. Usually I put a scarf arcoss my eyes and wear loose clothing.

Time & Aftercare:

I recommend beginning around 8 pm/twilight or dark in the evening as the bodies energy is more relaxed and moving into a different rhytm. This means that by morning 8 pm one is ready to begin the journalling or maybe have some refreshing herbal tea and begin the journalling after. The rest of the day is to be taken as easily as posible as it leads to the next important phase.

The following day is usually a 24 hour holiday of well being.

Insight:

Most of the understanding into what has passed begins to emerge in the 24 hours after the initial part of 12 hours. Perhaps it is on a time frame similar to a full session i.e. 36 hours, except the phases are less intense. i.e. phase one – ego unravelling, phase 2 insight, phase 3 (after 24 hours) calm (Journalling). Its difficult to journal in phase 2 (as one is really in a very special self nourishing energy) but if you can take notes its good for after the session. Maybe this is best to happen after the 24 hour mark. These are things I am still studying and learning about.

Male/Female:

Generally speaking I give 10% less to a female than to a male, i.e. male: 6mg/kg, female: 5.4 mg/kg. I think it is fair to say that woman are more sensitive to ibogaine/eboga than men as men tend to have more dominating egos and less access to the heart, which is the door to the experience.

You may feel you are having a full session on 5mg/kg and if what you are experiencing is similar to what a full session gave you then I recommend you experiment beginning with perhaps 3mg/kg working up to what I would consider a mini session experience.

However, the overall aim is to heal your inner world and that will require different types of sessions at different times.

If you are not a recovering addict you may find that something like the subsequent use of ayuhasca can help alleviate the pain which can emerge as we move through our healing. Apart from this there are other natural sunstances (Kava Kava?) which can infuse the emotional tissues with warmth to counteract the pain that is oosing out. Recovering addicts have to be careful not to take anything which can knock them back onto their addictions.

Trauma & Psychological Recovery:

I think I could be here all day writing and so I wont go any further except to say that a full program will require the judicious use of major and mini sessions.

—————————————————————-

Hope those thoughts help. I have wrote what has come to mind and will change what has been written here. These are rough thoughts. I am very much still learning what applies outside my own personal experiences. I hope in the future to flesh these things out more and to give more thought to them.

I began eboga on major doses. So I am developing ideas for people who have not and that requires more observation on my part. However this much is true: Eboga knows exactly what it is doing.

Safe journey & Success to you,

Lee

P.S. Feel free to come back with any questions you have. I am more than happy to engage on this as its an area I am working on.

booker w <swbooker@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi Lee.  I am interested in experimenting with low-dose eboga and am wondering what a low-dose session is typically like.  Do you still find the need to lay down and be perfectly still and does it consume the whole day, etc.  You mentioned low doses at around 5 mg/kg, but at that dose I feel like I’ve taken a “big dose.”  They say women are often more sensitive to ibogaine, and I feel that that is certainly true for me. I would probably take far smaller amounts.  Anyway, any answers appreciated…
Best, Sandy
PS – Randy I think you are spot-on about Ms. Mash.  When I experienced some physical symptoms after my third ibo session I talked to her and she of course tried to convince me that it must not’ve been real ibogaine, and why would I take the chance in the “underground!”  I think she tries to discredit anyone but her own place, which spells dollars for her, and certainly goes against the spirit of Eboga I think too.  The idea that someone was left for dead in a hotel by an ibogaine provider sounds utterly ludicrous to me.  Hope someone does write the LA Times…

>From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>

>Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Way, way off topic_Mystical Experience with MDMA + ?

>Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:47:09 +0000 (GMT)

>

>Dear “not so slow” Slowone

>

>Thank you very much for your reply. Very interesting indeed.

>

>In my own case (apart from 3 therapeutic MDMA sessions after my first eboga experience) I have based the past 6 years of my journey on the sacramental use of eboga to travel the inner recesses of my psyche and encounter the hidden demons of my past. I have unlocked practically every door (I am presently aware of) within me and have experienced nothing short of miraculous recovery. I eagerly look forward to completing the 3 books I am working on to share all the details of what I have experienced.

>

>So I have not felt any need to enter the world of ayahuasca. However from what you write it is definitely something I will explore at some stage. Forgive me if I say (what some may take as heresy) but I find eboga to be a complete cure when used with the right intention, a sufficiently discerning mind and a heart that seeks as its ultimate goal a deep experience of love. Why?

>

>Because it is very much spiritually guided and events in one life fall into place to move the process along if one is willing to undergo the changes and take the risks.

>

>I like what you say about eboga and how it brings you in contact with specific deep issues. (I assume we are talking about low doses here) It confirms exactly what I am trying to promote in my writings: the use of eboga to resolve childhood trauma and abuse and to advance ones spirituality via the growth of consciousness which ensues.

>

>There is absolutely no doubt that ongoing use of eboga is both surprising and humbling. It is also wonderfully liberating.

>

>The part I find interesting for myself is how I went from a scientific agnostic to a believer & admirer of the God and the Goddess. Two great kind (non imposing) and generous entities in my opinon. You could say the perfect parents. And yet with them I sense a humility which accepts me lovingly as I am and allows me to grow from there. Its almost like a growing friendship.

>

>Good idea to use as an adjunct to therapy.

>

>One observation I would make on the healing action of eboga is this. A particular emotion such as abandonment, loss of a loved one etc can be resolved (when the time is right) by an experience of accelerated healing with eboga. By that I mean, the concentration of all the pain is oosed out of the psyche like the puss from a boil and that is something which conventional therapy imo cannot do. That is why I recommend to anyone who is interested in full recovery to invest time and trust in its healing ways. It has many miracles to offer.

>

>Love & Peace

>

>Lee

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:58:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I’m curious. Where’s the line between an opinion and criticism. Not what
I would necessary refer to as constructive criticism (which cn be a bitch if

not ready to hear),but that twist the knife in criticism.  I believe it was
just that thing that was a big part of what prepped me for being a druggie
and all around dysfunctional person.
I believe nothing hits a child worse than constant criticism ,from a mother

(teamed up with no praise)especially,  I know.   So Faith, how is your son
anyway!  Just curious, are you able to forgo that habit on xmas in honor of
JC, or are you like that all year round?
Martee
“Martee, I guess we jest gotta have Faith”
Kirk


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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:51:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

So I’m curious. Where’s the line between an opinion and criticism. Not what I would necessary refer to as constructive criticism (which cn be a bitch if not ready to hear),but that twist the knife in criticism.  I believe it was just that thing that was a big part of what prepped me for being a druggie and all around dysfunctional person.
I believe nothing hits a child worse than constant criticism ,from a mother (teamed up with no praise)especially,  I know.   So Faith, how is your son anyway!  Just curious, are you able to forgo that habit on xmas in honor of JC, or are you like that all year round?
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Faith Bowling” <bchloej@hotmail.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

You love walking guilty people?  I’m not impressed.  Do you also like to sentence innocent people?

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 21:11:14 -0600

i am cyber moron. pen ball era. low on the curve. pre pac man and hi tech stuff, put me in a courtroom and i shine. i love walking guilty people when the judge and govt are convinced there’s a guilty coming down and they dbl team me. perverse?  you bet   i do have morals though. i d/n understand computers but am trying to learn    . i have a long ways to go. video games were something that d/n produce enough endorphins.  rather mtn bike ron sky diver , scuba cave certified.adddict—– Original Message —– From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

On Nov 26, 2004, at 11:08 PM, Ron Davis wrote:

no program to open
—– Original Message —– From: <ibogaine-digest-help@mindvox.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 10:06 AM
Subject: ibogaine Digest 26 Nov 2004 16:06:40 -0000 Issue 801

Ron … just to ask a crazy question, why are you signed up for the digest and the list, simultaeneously — like, all at once for instance… If you really do want TwicE tHe FuN, and double the joy, far be it from me to argue.

When you doubleclick the digest, whatever box you are using — I’m gonna guess Windoze — does not know what to open it WITH.  It’s just a plain text file; throw it on any text editor like Notepad or whatever, and then it’ll associate that app with the digests, in the future — unless it doesn’t… In which case it won’t work at all, or partially, and only once.  After that, the only other way to get it to work is to put on magickIcaL RubY reD slipPerz and click your heels together three times and say, “I believe!”

Photoz plZ

Patrick

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:29:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s prot a noblem.
I think if you go to the mindvox page?
Maybe someone else here knows how to change it…
Kirky


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From: “laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: December 1, 2004 at 5:21:51 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Le 1/12/04 10:19, « Capt Kirk » <captkirk@free.net.nz> a écrit :
Thanks kirk, i’ll  do my best
Hi there,
From my experiences with other lists, you can set it to not send to your
email program, but just go online and browse messages when you want to.
Geez, too many wafflers on here for ya aye? Hehheh j/k
Good luck
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr
[mailto:laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr]
Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2004 11:05 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re:
[Ibogaine]Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Le 30/11/04 21:13, « HSLotsof@aol.com » <HSLotsof@aol.com> a écrit :

hi everybody,

Can someone tell me how to unsuscribe from this list i just wanted to get
infos from time to time an,d  get about 20 mails of chat between two people.
Thanks in advance

Laurent
In a message dated 11/30/04 1:24:05 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

We have known each other before
Julie,I say this with the utmost respect,I feel I know
Randy,Sean,Howard,Martee,preston and wife and others on this list it’s
quite
odd.
Will talk soon Smiles Jasen.

Well Jasen,

We could all say we have been waiting for you. Now is this a religious
epiphany or just a science fiction scenario?  mmmmmm?

Have you checked out Amsterdam as Dave suggested?  One of the art museums
could be a really interesting tour.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if
they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: December 1, 2004 at 4:19:22 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi there,
From my experiences with other lists, you can set it to not send to your
email program, but just go online and browse messages when you want to.
Geez, too many wafflers on here for ya aye? Hehheh j/k
Good luck
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr
[mailto:laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr]
Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2004 11:05 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re:
[Ibogaine]Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Le 30/11/04 21:13, « HSLotsof@aol.com » <HSLotsof@aol.com> a écrit :

hi everybody,

Can someone tell me how to unsuscribe from this list i just wanted to get
infos from time to time an,d  get about 20 mails of chat between two people.
Thanks in advance

Laurent
In a message dated 11/30/04 1:24:05 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

We have known each other before
Julie,I say this with the utmost respect,I feel I know
Randy,Sean,Howard,Martee,preston and wife and others on this list it’s
quite
odd.
Will talk soon Smiles Jasen.

Well Jasen,

We could all say we have been waiting for you. Now is this a religious
epiphany or just a science fiction scenario?  mmmmmm?

Have you checked out Amsterdam as Dave suggested?  One of the art museums
could be a really interesting tour.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if
they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: “laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr” <laurentprieur@deadline-press.fr>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: December 1, 2004 at 5:05:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Le 30/11/04 21:13, « HSLotsof@aol.com » <HSLotsof@aol.com> a écrit :

hi everybody,

Can someone tell me how to unsuscribe from this list i just wanted to get
infos from time to time an,d  get about 20 mails of chat between two people.
Thanks in advance

Laurent
In a message dated 11/30/04 1:24:05 PM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

We have known each other before
Julie,I say this with the utmost respect,I feel I know
Randy,Sean,Howard,Martee,preston and wife and others on this list it’s
quite
odd.
Will talk soon Smiles Jasen.

Well Jasen,

We could all say we have been waiting for you. Now is this a religious
epiphany or just a science fiction scenario?  mmmmmm?

Have you checked out Amsterdam as Dave suggested?  One of the art museums
could be a really interesting tour.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: nruhtra@dsskcorp.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 2:15:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

dave – the t3nd3rl01n was where everything went sour for me. going from
user to junky. (16th and mission proved to be asskicking grounds for small
white boys ca. 6 months ago)  i used to sleep with a mexican girl with
gold caps on her front teeth for junk she would steal from her
boyfriend/my dealer. he found out about this – went ape shit, and got
arrested before he ever confronted me about it. this was at the spaulding
hotel – ofarrell and powell (i always thought of that as the outskirts of
the TL)
memories.

“tiene chiva, guay? uno blanca y dos negra para vente dolares??”

little spanish goes a long way in the TL. you still live in sf/bay area?

n

getting loaded behind the wheel… reminds me of copping and firing up,
then driving back north in the suicide lane the the golden gate bridge,
nodding out behind the wheel and plowing thru the flimsy dividing
pylons into oncoming traffic, narrowly averting head-ons. Not exactly
fun, or thoughtful. Vista point was my landing zone, if I made it there
I was safe. obviously i did, many a time. I don’t know how or why, it
was as if I were in a bullet proof bubble.

Then there was the time i went to cop from a junkie in a hotel in the
tenderloin. I just had a baby habit, and was only smoking my dope on
foil. I had instructions to go to the 6th floor, room 602 and knock 5
times softly. When the door opened i was horrified at what lay beyond.
Piles of dirty laundry, beer cans and cigarette buts and ashes
everywhere, blood stains on the wall and ceiling and it stank of detox
sweat and cum and beer and cigarettes. There was a path that went from
the door to the bed, and from the bed to the sink in the corner. The
rest was piled knee-waist high with junk. I was appalled anyone could
live like that. eventually, I would stay to get loaded, and when I
became homeless I crashed there. I sank lower than this person, because
I couldn’t even get it together to have a pad of my own. I would steal
his dope in a heartbeat, yet this person would lie sick for 3 days
waiting for someone to come by and send him out to cop so he could get
well. He had the integrity of a saint, which amazed me. This was a
junkie with ethics, don’t ever steal, don’t ever get off till you are
home and safe. Any bathro

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Breathing
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:26:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:51:42 -0800 BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I want to see the FACTS. Going on supposition doesn’t cut it with
me. I’ve
been a junkie or an alcoholic almost all of my life I think I know

there are
unscrupulous people in the world. I’ve been reading this list and
everything else
I can find about Ibogaine for a year and a half. Do I act like I
don’t have
the capacity to retain facts or something? I can’t cosign bullshit

for anybody.
Randy

What facts, Randy? I don’t think there are any generally-known
cases of an ibogaine provider abandoning a dead patient, or leaving
a patient to die, speaking from having looked at 99% of the
ibogaine list traffic since the net was created. Such a thing may
have never occurred. If it did, it is possible that no one but the
provider knows. I find it more interesting to use this issue to
think about what one would do in the situation, for anyone
considering administering ibogaine.

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] War Storiez
Date: December 1, 2004 at 1:10:19 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 11/30/04 4:30:45 PM, dave@phantom.com writes:

In the end I would scour the floor for dropped balloons when his back

was turned, and I eventually discovered he would drop thick, black
cottons between the bed and the wall for “rainy” days. I would pick
these cottons up, brushing away cock roaches and ashes and rat shit and

slam that thick black goo into my arm.

He died 4 years ago of hepC, and amazingly, after sharing the same
cottons and spoons, I am hepC Free.

Dave,

He really was a saint.  He was not dropping the cottons for himself but, for
you and they were sterile.  He made sure of it.

Howard

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