Ibogaine List Archives – 2004.12-2

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah AND JASEN AND KIRSTY
Date: December 16, 2004 at 11:59:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/16/04 11:36:52 PM, rwd3@cox.net writes:

<<  NO PITY PARTY, YOU GUYS WANTED TO BE REMINDED OF HOW IT IS?

THAT’S HOW IT IS AT MY AGE. IT HAS LEFT ME SPIRITUALLY BANKRUPT AND SOULESS.
THERE YOU GO. ONE NEAT PACKAGE AND A TICKING TIME BOMB.

WISH YOU GUYS ALL THE BEST, I’M BEAT AND IT D/N TAKE LONG AFTER 15 YRS. OF
BEING STRAIGHT AND USING AGAIN.  NO MORE NEGATIVE ENERGY FROM ME. REJOICE IN
YOUR GIFT. I’M KILLING MYSELF, END OF STORY.  IF YOU ARE STRAIGHT AND HAVE
DOUBTS, GO PICK UP AGAIN. BLESSINGS TO ALL, RON >>

So why do you think people take ibogaine?  For all of the reasons you give.
But, I believe people should have the right to make their own decisions.

Howard

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah AND JASEN AND KIRSTY
Date: December 16, 2004 at 10:35:35 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

jasen:
at 54 drugs have destroyed my life and may take a career i’ve spent most of my adult life working towards.  there are no drugs i can get high on anymore, tolerances built up over yrs.  they aren’t an option yet i’m dependent upon them to just function.  nothing romantic in “war stories”, just pain and misery to me and those that love me. they suck and i’m very close to bottoming out.  problem is, bottom at my age means no second chances, losing all i’ve worked for. if i had the bucks i’d go the ibo although i d/n think it’s indicated for benzos.  i’m sure given my history, i’d benefit. of course there’s the destruction of my underinsured house after the hurricane. everyday stuff for normal folks to deal with when not worrying about a habit
drugs have stripped me of all dignity, taken me places i never wanted to go. they have made me a liability when i was once an asset to my community.  i have no one to fall back on for help, the wolf is at the door  NO PITY PARTY, YOU GUYS WANTED TO BE REMINDED OF HOW IT IS?
THAT’S HOW IT IS AT MY AGE. IT HAS LEFT ME SPIRITUALLY BANKRUPT AND SOULESS.  THERE YOU GO. ONE NEAT PACKAGE AND A TICKING TIME BOMB.
WISH YOU GUYS ALL THE BEST, I’M BEAT AND IT D/N TAKE LONG AFTER 15 YRS. OF BEING STRAIGHT AND USING AGAIN.  NO MORE NEGATIVE ENERGY FROM ME. REJOICE IN YOUR GIFT. I’M KILLING MYSELF, END OF STORY.  IF YOU ARE STRAIGHT AND HAVE DOUBTS, GO PICK UP AGAIN. BLESSINGS TO ALL, RON
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hey Ron,
I would have to agree with others on the list.
Stay and tell.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.jim
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:52:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m down monday.  he must be a remarkable man. i will take the leap of faith. so going , afraid he c/n help or may change mind, but going just the same. thanks for the advice, it is taken in which the spirit it was given. ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron,

Ron, we all like you, we all have our problems, we understand.  Schmoolyboy was nice enough to lead you to a doc who said he would help – GO.  It’s a no brainer.  The doc said he would help you.  You don’t have to walk into his office cold and wondering if he is one of those asshole docs who do not like addicts.  You don’t have to worry about him judging you, taking your money and saying sorry can’t help you.  I mean no disrespect but it really doesn’t get any better than a doc knowing in advance that you need “that” kind of help and offering to help you.  Santa can’t help you, the doc can.  Now, you got the name, address and phone number of a doc that said he would help you.  Run to the phone and set up an appointment -today.  Us on the forum can listen but can only help so much, you got to at least make an appointment.  Do you know how many people would jump at a chance like this?  Take some action – NOW!!!  Please do not take this as disrespect, just think about it.  What more do you want?  What more can anyone do?  It’s your turn, Ron – MOVE.  Before it’s too late.
Good luck to you Ron,  see the doc before Christmas and before he changes his mind.
It’s up to you now,
– JIM

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:47:38 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the well wishes and back to you my unseen friend.  wishing you your peaceful path, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hey Ron,
I would have to agree with others on the list.
Stay and tell.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:43:51 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

you’re right, i have to do it or die. thank you for well wishes. i hope you achieve  your worthy goals. peace and a path to it, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Keep us posted Ron, we’re all rooting for you!  I hope you enjoy Christmas and the New Year, good luck with everything.  You know you can do it-you have to!

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:14:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,
Your comment ,’it sure sounds like you are Ibogainized’
cracked me up,thanks for the laugh.

Yes Iboga/Ibogaine will bring more peace and health to the world.
It is bringing more peace and health to the world.

It is a baptising in action.

I also had a compulsive obsessive disorder that I did not realise.
For example,I would have to be constantly entertained if not then nicely stoned and away.
I would get videos almost every night,nodding in front of the movie,sometimes only getting to see half of it,
or nod off through the whole thing.If I got a litre of ice-cream I would have to eat the lot.

I would see every movie at the cinemas,even down to the boring ones on the chance they were entertaining.
Anything I liked I had to have lots and lots of it, hi Howard. Gee, now I’m making myself laugh.

Ohhh,this music is wonderful,I keep getting these wonderful goosebumps with some of the tunes.
I am listening to music as I write. I am always listening to music.

It is like the Iboga ripped out most of the pain and blockages,the type of pain we all experience in life.
I now have no emotional reason to use heroin,…maybe physical a little,but that I can handle especially when the Iboga/Ibogaine
takes away at least 85% of the physical as well.

You see I know this will pass,the physical,so I can handle it.I don’t like it but I can handle it.
I like where I am at though,no,…LOVE where I am at.The word love seems to vibrate to the same frequency as the Iboga.

Vibrations ,it’s all vibrations.Life is a vibration between good and bad, hot and cold the ying and the yang,
if the opposite did not exist then life could not.What would the good vibrate off. It needs to bounce back.
Don’t know where that came from.My hands are talking.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah

In a message dated 12/16/04 6:28:02 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I laid on the grass this morning to absorb some sun,normally I would get
bitten by an ant,or bugged by bees and a fly or two,

not this time it was like the grass was leaning towards me wanting to get
close,not one ant bite,it was like they were happy I was there.

The bees would come over gently like they were saying h

>>

Hi Jasen,

It sure sounds like you are ibogainized.  Ibogaine could bring peace and
health to the world or at least a lot more of it.  Anyway carrying on with good
energy for the holidays and new year.  Be well.

Howard

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 7:43:36 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/16/04 6:28:02 PM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< I laid on the grass this morning to absorb some sun,normally I would get
bitten by an ant,or bugged by bees and a fly or two,

not this time it was like the grass was leaning towards me wanting to get
close,not one ant bite,it was like they were happy I was there.

The bees would come over gently like they were saying h

Hi Jasen,

It sure sounds like you are ibogainized.  Ibogaine could bring peace and
health to the world or at least a lot more of it.  Anyway carrying on with good
energy for the holidays and new year.  Be well.

Howard

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]re:cigs Julie
Date: December 16, 2004 at 7:10:18 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

It’s great to hear from you!  You sound so positive,
so refreshed, so…REBORN.

Before my 2nd Ibo treatment, I was socially smoking
tobacco.  I have never been addicted, per se, but WOW-
cigarettes do work well with alcohol, which in turn
works well with opiates, which work well with…you
know the score.

Post-Ibo I find cigarettes truly repelling.  The smell
alone causes me to cringe, I can only imagine what the
taste would do….Here in Toronto, it is now illegal
to smoke in bars and restaurants, which sucks for the
smokers but ROCKS for the rest of us!

My boyfriend is just over 2 months out, but he still
gets cravings quite frequently- usually triggered by a
nice tasty meal, or a nice, tasty[fill in blank].
He’s starting to unlearn the chemical conditioning
patterns his body/mind have accumulated over 10 years
of regular nicotine consumption.  I feel for him.  In
many ways, I would say nicotine is somewhat harder to
kick than dope- I mean, nicotine is so damn in your
face AND it’s legal.  Nicotine is a very pervasive
substance.  Toronto is going to pass a bylaw that
prohibits the prominent display of cigs in any kind of
commercial  setting- in other words, they must be kept
under the counter at all times, and NOT in anyone’s
visual range.

It’s great to chat with you again.  Keep the positive
vibes coming,

Julie
ms_iboga@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Trip over?
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:08:37 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My friend is just about to return to Cambridge police station for Bail. He
was ‘caught’ with a few fresh, unprepared mushrooms he had picked-they were
taken off him and he had to spend the night in the cells.  He still doesn’t
know what or if they’re considering charging him with!

Its just madness!
Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 9:00 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Trip over?

—– Original Message —–
From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Trip over?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,1373088,00.html

Trip over?

Magic mushrooms have never been more popular. More than 400 apparently
legal
‘shroom’ shops have sprung up in the past two years, and growing kits have
become a must-have Christmas present. So why has the government suddenly
turned tough on sellers? Stephen Moss investigates

Tuesday December 14, 2004
The Guardian

Six months ago, when the NME described 2004 as “the third summer of love”,
it put the benign mood down to one thing – the return of magic mushrooms.
The drug idolised by cult author and psychologist Timothy Leary in the
1960s – he said that his first experience of mushrooms in Mexico in 1960
taught him more than all his years of study – was back. According to the
NME, which produced a “top tips for top trips” guide, mushrooms were a
safe
alternative to ecstasy, and what’s more – they were legal. It was time to
“turn on, tune in, drop out” all over again.
Except that nobody told the Home Office and the police, which have now
declared war on magic mushrooms. In Gloucester, two local men have been
charged with supplying a class A drug by selling them. It promises to be
the
start of a long and complicated legal battle to determine the status of
Britain’s latest drug of choice. Other cases are pending in Birmingham and
Canterbury – cases which the Home Office hopes will establish once and for
all whether magic mushrooms are innocent, hippy-dippy playthings, or a
menace to be stamped on.
The nation’s mushroom sellers are confused. Two years ago, a more
easy-going
Home Office sent out a letter advising them that “the growing of psilocybe
mushrooms” and their “gathering and possession” did not contravene the
Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. It was not illegal, the letter went on, to sell
or
give away a growing kit, or to sell or give away a freshly picked
mushroom,
“provided that it has not been prepared in any way”. Recipients of the
letter took it as a green light to sell fresh mushrooms, and there are now
an estimated 400 “shroom” shops in the UK.
This distinction – between a fresh mushroom and one that has been
“prepared” – is crucial. It is not an offence to possess or consume a
mushroom, because it occurs naturally, but a psilocybe mushroom contains
the
hallucinogen psilocin and its byproduct psilocybin, both of which are
deemed
to be class A drugs under the 1971 Act. Any “preparation” or any attempt
to
turn the mushroom into a “product” (the Gloucester case and others like it
may hinge on the definition of those words) could constitute the supply of
a
class A drug. Maximum sentence: life imprisonment.
The Home Office has now, in effect, disowned the original softly-softly
guidance note. “The Home Office judges that a mushroom that has been
cultivated, transported to the marketplace, packaged, weighed and labelled
constitutes a product,” reads the latest guidelines. Applied literally,
this
would appear to rule out all trade in magic mushrooms, which at present
are
being cultivated, transported, weighed and sold openly in shops and on
market stalls all over the country. Even grow-kits, which allow you to
grow
your own mushrooms, appear to be ruled out under the Home Office advice –
a
grow-kit, by definition, means cultivation. The tougher guidelines have
led
to a rash of arrests across the country, and to cases that will determine
whether the nascent industry has a future
One retailer caught in the police crackdown was Andy Burgess, who runs the
Headz “alternative gift shop” in Folkestone. Burgess, a former builder, is
61 and admits to being “the oldest swinger in town”. His shop, with its
blue
and purple frontage, is an exotic exception to the drabness of the rest of
the town. It smells of incense, has a large reclining Buddha in the window
and is plastered with leaflets for psychic fayres, spiritual healing and
medieval fencing. Strangely, there is also an advertisement for a model
railway exhibition.
In late September, Burgess had a visit from the local police – and they
hadn’t come for the Indian head massage. “When I arrived here in the
morning, there were two police vans outside my door,” he recalls. “I said
to
a policeman, ‘Do you want to speak to me?’ He said, ‘I’m afraid so.’ There
were at least eight policemen – they were like a Swat team.
“I said, ‘What do you want?’ He said, ‘I want your mushrooms. Where are
they?’ They ended up taking my fridge, all my invoices, all my
paraphernalia
regarding mushroom selling.”
Burgess was arrested on suspicion of supplying a class A drug and spent
the
rest of the day in the cells. He was interviewed, then bailed, but a few
days later he was told that the case had been dropped. No explanation or
apology was offered. “I can’t understand it,” he says. “I can’t understand
why they’re hassling people.” He also sells a range of replica firearms in
his shop, but these do not seem to have excited the interest of the
police.
Burgess has been selling magic mushrooms for seven or eight months to a
wide
range of aficionados: “I get teachers, even policemen coming in to buy
them,” he says. “Most people don’t buy them in large quantities; they buy
a
small amount and share them with their friends to have a giggle. I sell
them
in 30g bags, which is the maximum dose for any one person, but if you do
half of it you just get a giggle. Things may look a bit surreal, but
that’s
as far as it goes. It’s quite harmless.”
Not everyone agrees. “Magic mushrooms are potentially dangerous,” insists
Professor John Henry, an expert in toxicology at Imperial College and St
Mary’s Hospital, London. “They clearly cause hallucinations. The
hallucinations are usually short term, but there is a danger of
flashbacks.”
Professor Henry says mushrooms have contributed to several deaths, with
people suffering hallucinations being killed in accidents. “I advise
people
never to take magic mushrooms as a form of escape. I tell them your
hang-ups
will always chase you. Experienced users might just feel a bit trippy, but
naive users may feel sick, spacy, quite ill. It is also frightening if
they
are fed to you without you knowing. That can be very scary.”
Mushroom sellers, unsurprisingly, refuse to accept that mushrooms can do
long-term damage. Psyche Deli, one of the biggest companies in the
industry,
was started by three people who enjoyed taking mushrooms and decided to
turn
their hobby into a business. They quote a Dutch scientific report that
claims mushrooms are safe. “We never set out to do anything illegal,” says
co-founder Paul Galbraith. “We asked all the requisite authorities what we
were able to do, and it looks like many other traders did the same. Over
the
past two years, although nothing has actually changed in the law, the Home
Office’s interpretation appears to have changed.” Chris Territt, also from
Psyche Deli, argues that it may be the increased size and organisation of
the business – the Home Office is especially exercised by the growing
volume
of imports, mainly from Holland – that has triggered the clampdown.
“The law on magic mushrooms is madness,” says Paul Flynn, Labour MP for
Newport West. “It seems to have been written by somebody who was on a
hallucinogenic drug.” In May, Flynn wrote to Home Office minister Caroline
Flint asking for clarification. Her reply – that the very act of selling
them constitutes “preparation” – showed how far the Home Office had moved
away from its original view that “preparation” meant a change in the
physical nature of the mushroom, turning it into a tea, a paste or a
powder,
for example, to make the effect of the psilocin more concentrated.
The change of heart does not, however, appear to have penetrated the
Metropolitan police, which has so far taken no action in London, where
magic
mushrooms are sold openly in street markets. When I visited a stall in
Portobello Road, business was fairly brisk, with family groups clustered
round the stall choosing from among the mushroom varieties – Mexican,
Colombian, Hawaiian, Thai. Christmas is a busy time, apparently, with
grow-kits rivalling iPods as the must-have present last year.
Flynn is scathing about the government’s handling of the issue. “It’s
crazy:
if you pick them, that’s legal; if you keep them overnight, that’s illegal
because they dry out. The effect of magic mushrooms is minor compared with
other drugs. There is a market for them and it would be better to allow it
to operate. There are plenty of medicinal drugs that cause far more damage
than magic mushrooms. But there are no signs of any intelligence in drug
policy from the government. When they say the word ‘drugs’, you can be
sure
that the word ‘tough’ won’t be far behind.”
Even Professor Henry, while backing a ban on their cultivation, believes
the
law has become hopelessly confused. “They’re not a food – VAT has to be
paid
on them – so what are they? They’re in some other category, but nobody
seems
to know what.”
The VAT issue is vexing to mushroom retailers. In February, one wrote to
Customs and Excise to ask whether he should be charging VAT. It replied
that
he should and was then embarrassed when the retailer made the letter
public.
It appeared that it was levying a tax on a “product” which the Home Office
wanted to ban. Joined-up government it wasn’t.
“We did state that fresh mushrooms were subject to VAT,” says Customs and
Excise spokesman Paul Matthews, “but we are also aware of the Home Office
view that their packaging for sale is illegal. We are really waiting for
case law on this.” Mushroom retailers argue that if VAT is being levied,
the
product per se cannot be illegal; it seems this is not the case. “Just
because something is illegal doesn’t mean that it can’t be taxed,” says
Matthews.
Proponents of magic mushrooms are frustrated at what they see as the Home
Office’s reluctance to consider changing the law, and are critical of a
policy that appears to be based on nudging the police and the courts to
establish precedent. “If someone was going to make policy on this, then
there would at least be a debate,” says Territt, “but currently there is
no
debate. The crown prosecution service is not a relevant authority to be
making health and safety and drugs policy.”

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: Jasen,ZOE&TOM
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:05:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sara,
How is Zoe and Tom.
Are they ok,has Zoe taken her dose yet.
send them my love.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: sarah
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] RE: Jasen,

If you have any questions just email me … Kind Regards
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:16 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] RE: Jasen,

Greetings from Jason and me, all is well around here, nothing unexpected until now.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]re:cigs Julie
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:01:04 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
I am having a hard time with the tobacco
as well. I have not smoked tobacco now for 25 days or so.
I think it is the boredom for me ,Whilst waiting to feel better.

Every now and again I look for my tobacco out of habit,
then realise I don’t smoke.

For me it is not craving but more the habit of killing time and doing something with my hands and mouth.

I hope your boyfreind is doing well.

So girl,….How have you been?,you have been quiter than usual.
Love Jasen.

Preston,
My boyfriend just quit smoking with Zyban, and a lot
of willpower…It’s been 5 weeks, and he’s still
having cravings.  God, do they ever go away???
I wish you the best of luck in your journey.
luv Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.Deborah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 5:28:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Deborah,
I used to have a friend at school called Deborah,she was beautiful,I miss her.
Another christmas baby,you are a capricorn like me.

In chinese astrology I am the Serpent.Born 25 12 65.

Great choice to see Sara,somehow Sara just seems to tune into your needs,she is lovley.
I am sure their are other providers that are also lovley, kind, giving and just want to help.

The Euro is quite powerful as you know. For 100 Australian you get 60 euro(approx).
Magic mushrooms are about 14 euro,a rolled joint in a coffe shop is 3 to 5 euro.
Thats about all I bought. Of course,..all strictly medicinal.

I laid on the grass this morning to absorb some sun,normally I would get bitten by an ant,or bugged by bees and a fly or two,
not this time it was like the grass was leaning towards me wanting to get close,not one ant bite,it was like they were happy I was there.
The bees would come over gently like they were saying h

I live in Brisbane Queensland.I grew up in Sydney came to Brisbane 17 years ago to get away from the gear and of course
found it up here.

I am to high on being opiate free to come down,you cannot bring me down unless I choose to be down,life is to bright at the moment.
Please write whatever you want,it’s all good.

I recieve healing from everyone on the list through their postings,regardlewss of the content,it is life we are living.
I like the all of it.
love Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Deborah Vincent
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.

Dear Jasen,
It’s So great to hear your strong true voice.. So great for you to be free!! I’m So happy for you and positively green with envy! Oh!!! To have a choice! To be able to travel on the spur of the moment! Sheer bliss surely! The liquid handcuffs are really dragging me down, destroying my teeth , stomach and sleep patterns!! I’m so over the whole thing! The great conspiracy! But hopefully by march I’ll be in your place – I’m hoping to be able to visit Sara in Feb. Can you tell me what the exchange rate is- Aust$ to Euro?
I’m living in Melbourne.. Dear downtown St.Kilda.  Where in Aust. are you Jasen?  When you’re totally better I’d love to have a chat about the whole eboga trip! I’m pretty much in the same boat that you’d been rowing…
Smoking fags at 9. Tripping & smoking grass at 12 when my folks split. Addicted to heroin on and off since 15 when I bailed out of school and home. Then as an adult, cocaine for 5 years instead of hammer… Totally Clean for 2 x 3 yr periods …I used to have awesome self restraint.. I could just quit! I resisted going on the methadone programme forever – then broke down and gave in in 2001 when my body Really decided it didn’t want to hang out any more… I’d get admitted to hospital every time I try these days. 47 on Christmas day and so depressed.
But I don’t want to bring you down.. I wanted to say Bravo Jasen!! Be Strong and Well and Victorious!!! and Merry Christmas!!! Happy New Year – The first day of the first year of your new adult life! Make every minute count!
Love Deborah

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] US CA: Outbreak!
Date: December 16, 2004 at 4:03:39 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: “Tim Meehan” <fc697@ncf.ca>
To: <cmap@mapinc.org>; <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <editor@mapinc.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 4:42 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] US CA: Outbreak!

Source: East Bay Express (CA)
Contact: letters@eastbayexpress.com
Website: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/
Feedback: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/feedback/
Address: 1335 Stanford Ave., Emeryville, CA 94608
Fax: (510) 601-0217
Copyright: 2004 New Times
Pubdate: Dec 15, 2004
Author: K.L. Capozza

Webpage: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2004-12-15/cityside.html

Outbreak!

A rare heroin-related disease strikes the Bay Area

On November 29, the first of several disoriented, apparently drowsy people
wandered into Bay Area county hospitals with slurred speech, drooping eyelids,
and difficulty swallowing. By December 2, at least three patients were paralyzed
above the waist and required mechanical ventilation.

The mysterious, rapidly progressing illness turned out to be wound botulism — a
rare disease caused by a toxin in C. botulinum bacteria. Alameda and San
Francisco county public health officials immediately notified the California
Department of Health Services of the outbreak, which later alerted the federal
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Like most recent victims of wound botulism, these six patients have one
characteristic in common: They are all black-tar heroin users who contracted the
toxin-releasing bacteria from a dirty drug batch.

Botulism cases always raise alarm because C. botulinum is not only a
bioterrorism agent but a particularly nasty bug. Exposed victims experience
rapid descending paralysis, or gradual loss of muscle control beginning with the
smaller muscles in the head and moving downward.

By the time three of the six patients — one of whom is an Alameda County
resident — made it to San Francisco General Hospital, they were in critical
condition. In the coming weeks — or even months — they will need
around-the-clock intensive care while an antitoxin slowly unbinds neurotoxin
from their muscles. All told, the outbreak could cost taxpayers hundreds of
thousands of dollars.

Wound botulism is a primarily Californian disease. The state has 75 percent of
the cases in the United States, which in turn has 90 percent of the cases
reported across the globe. The illness was virtually unheard of prior to 1988,
but since then California has seen a twenty-fold increase in infections. Experts
at the California Department of Health Services believe the recent surge in
cases can be explained by two related developments in the heroin-using
community: the increase in popularity of black-tar heroin from Mexico, and the
practice of “skin popping,” or injecting heroin into soft tissue rather than
veins. Repeated injections cause abscesses to form, creating a favorable climate
for neurotoxin-producing bacteria like C. botulinum.

Last month’s deluge of botulism infections likely represents only a fraction of
the cases that the state’s hospitals can expect to see in 2005. On average, 22
cases emerge each year and cost an estimated $4.5 million in health-care
expenses. Public health officials would like to find a way to stem the trend,
but because heroin users are hard to reach and because their habit is illegal,
prevention efforts have been largely ineffectual.

“Not using isn’t always a reasonable option to these individuals, and once they
have wound botulism, you can’t do much about it,” says Dr. Erica Pan, head of
San Francisco’s Bioterrorism and Infectious Disease Emergencies Unit. “It’s
frustrating from a public health perspective.”

Yet there is evidence that one approach could drastically cut wound botulism
cases and a host of other negative effects associated with heroin use, including
crime, homelessness, and HIV and hepatitis C infection: Controlling addicts’
heroin supply. Under this strategy, public agencies would buy “clean” heroin and
offer it to addicts in regulated, prescribed doses so they don’t have to rely on
an unsafe street product.

While many people are uneasy about the prospect of local government getting into
the business of dispensing heroin, there is growing support for the idea —
especially abroad. The Netherlands and Switzerland have already tested
prescription-heroin treatment programs and seen impressive results. A five-year
study of Switzerland’s program — which has existed since 1992 — found crime
had dropped by 60 percent and unemployment by 50 percent. Significant public
funds were saved thanks to a reduction in legal costs, imprisonment, and disease
treatment after the program commenced.

This remarkable success inspired Canada to fund its own prescription-heroin
pilot study, which will begin early next year. But here in the United States,
support for the idea has been tepid at best. Critics of the approach —
including drug czar John Walters — say it encourages drug dependence and robs
addicts of the opportunity to kick their habit.

Ideology aside, the Swiss and Dutch experiments do show that it’s simply more
cost-effective to regulate heroin use than to punish it. “The cost of providing
heroin treatment is truly pennies on the dollar compared to the alternative,”
says Daniel Abrahamson, the Oakland-based director of legal affairs for the Drug
Policy Alliance. More important, he argues, prescription-heroin programs help
intractable addicts return to normal, productive lives and, in some cases, to
eventually give up the drug altogether.

“When you prescribe pure, known levels of heroin to individuals, you enable them
to not spend every waking moment of their life figuring out how to get their
next hit — it frees up time to figure out how to get well,” he says.

That currently isn’t an option for the six patients who contracted wound
botulism last month. As they recover in the coming weeks, they will be
discharged and, as statistics overwhelmingly suggest, will likely return to
their old habits. They may even contract wound botulism a second or third time,
as some addicts have in the past.

“The question is really: ‘This problem exists, so what do you do?'” Abrahamson
argues. “One option is to look at the very strong medical and scientific
research that heroin maintenance reduces disease, crime, and the suffering of
addictive people.”

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: [DrugWar] Trip over?
Date: December 16, 2004 at 4:00:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Vigilius Haufniensis
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Cc: elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: [DrugWar] Trip over?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Story/0,2763,1373088,00.html

Trip over?

Magic mushrooms have never been more popular. More than 400 apparently legal ‘shroom’ shops have sprung up in the past two years, and growing kits have become a must-have Christmas present. So why has the government suddenly turned tough on sellers? Stephen Moss investigates

Tuesday December 14, 2004
The Guardian

Six months ago, when the NME described 2004 as “the third summer of love”, it put the benign mood down to one thing – the return of magic mushrooms. The drug idolised by cult author and psychologist Timothy Leary in the 1960s – he said that his first experience of mushrooms in Mexico in 1960 taught him more than all his years of study – was back. According to the NME, which produced a “top tips for top trips” guide, mushrooms were a safe alternative to ecstasy, and what’s more – they were legal. It was time to “turn on, tune in, drop out” all over again.
Except that nobody told the Home Office and the police, which have now declared war on magic mushrooms. In Gloucester, two local men have been charged with supplying a class A drug by selling them. It promises to be the start of a long and complicated legal battle to determine the status of Britain’s latest drug of choice. Other cases are pending in Birmingham and Canterbury – cases which the Home Office hopes will establish once and for all whether magic mushrooms are innocent, hippy-dippy playthings, or a menace to be stamped on.
The nation’s mushroom sellers are confused. Two years ago, a more easy-going Home Office sent out a letter advising them that “the growing of psilocybe mushrooms” and their “gathering and possession” did not contravene the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. It was not illegal, the letter went on, to sell or give away a growing kit, or to sell or give away a freshly picked mushroom, “provided that it has not been prepared in any way”. Recipients of the letter took it as a green light to sell fresh mushrooms, and there are now an estimated 400 “shroom” shops in the UK.
This distinction – between a fresh mushroom and one that has been “prepared” – is crucial. It is not an offence to possess or consume a mushroom, because it occurs naturally, but a psilocybe mushroom contains the hallucinogen psilocin and its byproduct psilocybin, both of which are deemed to be class A drugs under the 1971 Act. Any “preparation” or any attempt to turn the mushroom into a “product” (the Gloucester case and others like it may hinge on the definition of those words) could constitute the supply of a class A drug. Maximum sentence: life imprisonment.
The Home Office has now, in effect, disowned the original softly-softly guidance note. “The Home Office judges that a mushroom that has been cultivated, transported to the marketplace, packaged, weighed and labelled constitutes a product,” reads the latest guidelines. Applied literally, this would appear to rule out all trade in magic mushrooms, which at present are being cultivated, transported, weighed and sold openly in shops and on market stalls all over the country. Even grow-kits, which allow you to grow your own mushrooms, appear to be ruled out under the Home Office advice – a grow-kit, by definition, means cultivation. The tougher guidelines have led to a rash of arrests across the country, and to cases that will determine whether the nascent industry has a future
One retailer caught in the police crackdown was Andy Burgess, who runs the Headz “alternative gift shop” in Folkestone. Burgess, a former builder, is 61 and admits to being “the oldest swinger in town”. His shop, with its blue and purple frontage, is an exotic exception to the drabness of the rest of the town. It smells of incense, has a large reclining Buddha in the window and is plastered with leaflets for psychic fayres, spiritual healing and medieval fencing. Strangely, there is also an advertisement for a model railway exhibition.
In late September, Burgess had a visit from the local police – and they hadn’t come for the Indian head massage. “When I arrived here in the morning, there were two police vans outside my door,” he recalls. “I said to a policeman, ‘Do you want to speak to me?’ He said, ‘I’m afraid so.’ There were at least eight policemen – they were like a Swat team.
“I said, ‘What do you want?’ He said, ‘I want your mushrooms. Where are they?’ They ended up taking my fridge, all my invoices, all my paraphernalia regarding mushroom selling.”
Burgess was arrested on suspicion of supplying a class A drug and spent the rest of the day in the cells. He was interviewed, then bailed, but a few days later he was told that the case had been dropped. No explanation or apology was offered. “I can’t understand it,” he says. “I can’t understand why they’re hassling people.” He also sells a range of replica firearms in his shop, but these do not seem to have excited the interest of the police.
Burgess has been selling magic mushrooms for seven or eight months to a wide range of aficionados: “I get teachers, even policemen coming in to buy them,” he says. “Most people don’t buy them in large quantities; they buy a small amount and share them with their friends to have a giggle. I sell them in 30g bags, which is the maximum dose for any one person, but if you do half of it you just get a giggle. Things may look a bit surreal, but that’s as far as it goes. It’s quite harmless.”
Not everyone agrees. “Magic mushrooms are potentially dangerous,” insists Professor John Henry, an expert in toxicology at Imperial College and St Mary’s Hospital, London. “They clearly cause hallucinations. The hallucinations are usually short term, but there is a danger of flashbacks.” Professor Henry says mushrooms have contributed to several deaths, with people suffering hallucinations being killed in accidents. “I advise people never to take magic mushrooms as a form of escape. I tell them your hang-ups will always chase you. Experienced users might just feel a bit trippy, but naive users may feel sick, spacy, quite ill. It is also frightening if they are fed to you without you knowing. That can be very scary.”
Mushroom sellers, unsurprisingly, refuse to accept that mushrooms can do long-term damage. Psyche Deli, one of the biggest companies in the industry, was started by three people who enjoyed taking mushrooms and decided to turn their hobby into a business. They quote a Dutch scientific report that claims mushrooms are safe. “We never set out to do anything illegal,” says co-founder Paul Galbraith. “We asked all the requisite authorities what we were able to do, and it looks like many other traders did the same. Over the past two years, although nothing has actually changed in the law, the Home Office’s interpretation appears to have changed.” Chris Territt, also from Psyche Deli, argues that it may be the increased size and organisation of the business – the Home Office is especially exercised by the growing volume of imports, mainly from Holland – that has triggered the clampdown.
“The law on magic mushrooms is madness,” says Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West. “It seems to have been written by somebody who was on a hallucinogenic drug.” In May, Flynn wrote to Home Office minister Caroline Flint asking for clarification. Her reply – that the very act of selling them constitutes “preparation” – showed how far the Home Office had moved away from its original view that “preparation” meant a change in the physical nature of the mushroom, turning it into a tea, a paste or a powder, for example, to make the effect of the psilocin more concentrated.
The change of heart does not, however, appear to have penetrated the Metropolitan police, which has so far taken no action in London, where magic mushrooms are sold openly in street markets. When I visited a stall in Portobello Road, business was fairly brisk, with family groups clustered round the stall choosing from among the mushroom varieties – Mexican, Colombian, Hawaiian, Thai. Christmas is a busy time, apparently, with grow-kits rivalling iPods as the must-have present last year.
Flynn is scathing about the government’s handling of the issue. “It’s crazy: if you pick them, that’s legal; if you keep them overnight, that’s illegal because they dry out. The effect of magic mushrooms is minor compared with other drugs. There is a market for them and it would be better to allow it to operate. There are plenty of medicinal drugs that cause far more damage than magic mushrooms. But there are no signs of any intelligence in drug policy from the government. When they say the word ‘drugs’, you can be sure that the word ‘tough’ won’t be far behind.”
Even Professor Henry, while backing a ban on their cultivation, believes the law has become hopelessly confused. “They’re not a food – VAT has to be paid on them – so what are they? They’re in some other category, but nobody seems to know what.”
The VAT issue is vexing to mushroom retailers. In February, one wrote to Customs and Excise to ask whether he should be charging VAT. It replied that he should and was then embarrassed when the retailer made the letter public. It appeared that it was levying a tax on a “product” which the Home Office wanted to ban. Joined-up government it wasn’t.
“We did state that fresh mushrooms were subject to VAT,” says Customs and Excise spokesman Paul Matthews, “but we are also aware of the Home Office view that their packaging for sale is illegal. We are really waiting for case law on this.” Mushroom retailers argue that if VAT is being levied, the product per se cannot be illegal; it seems this is not the case. “Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean that it can’t be taxed,” says Matthews.
Proponents of magic mushrooms are frustrated at what they see as the Home Office’s reluctance to consider changing the law, and are critical of a policy that appears to be based on nudging the police and the courts to establish precedent. “If someone was going to make policy on this, then there would at least be a debate,” says Territt, “but currently there is no debate. The crown prosecution service is not a relevant authority to be making health and safety and drugs policy.”

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen TV
Date: December 16, 2004 at 3:13:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Francis,
I feel I am still opened up and whatever I let in will be hard to let go off later.
I was given the feeling that I must be very careful what I do over these months,
that everything is magnified now.

I did not turn the tv on for 3 days.Normally I would sit infront of the tv at 6,
watch the simpsons,then keep watching untill 11 or 12,most of the time I would nod off
watching tv,smoking pot to bring on the Methadone.

I am not,not wathcing tv because I think it is bad,I simply do not have the desire.
Now I feel the radiation from the tv,it gives me an uneasy feeling around the temples.
I watched a comedy last night,that was good,I laughed and laughed,my laugh still sounds exhausting.

I feel I let in to much crap from the tv which infllunces me in many different ways.

By the way your english is as good as everyone else as far as email goes.

The last time I listened to Pink Floyd was over 20 years ago. Now I cannot stop listening to
Division Bell by pinkfloyd. Listen to the words,it is uncanny,as if they had the same problem
and tried Eboga/Ibogaine then wrote about it.

From morning to night I stayed out of sight ,I didn’t recognise what I had become,no more than a lie  I barley survived
in a word over run,my skin is cold to the human touch,I murmered about all silenced and out I dont even hear when I think aloud,extinguished by light I turn on the night.

I am creeping back to life my nervous system all array I am wearing the inside out
Look at him now .his paler now, ….but he is comming around,he is starting to choke,..so long since he spoke,can see through the clouds that covered me.
just give it time.  I will stop here,.it goes on.

It gives me goose bumps,the nice kind.Ahhhh,the life is charging in side of me,it is loud.

When I say I miss female company,I mean the flirting the holding the nurturing,laying beside each other,being intimate.
I have to be careful as I feel my heart is still very open,and I could fall in love to easily,mistaking the company and intimacy for love.
I will be patient.First thing first,become stronger,fitter,lighter.
with love Jasen.
Hi Jasen !
I am collecting  all your E-mail religiously, It’s amazing to see
how fast you are changing for the better.
It’s the first time I can follow a recovery with Ibogaine. I am so happy for
you !! English is not my language so I lack vocabulary to express how
astonished I am seing the miracle you  went throught. This an amazing grace
🙂

I have a question for you related to adversion to TV. I’ve read
several time in this list that Ibogaine change your perception or taste
regarding TV. I have a complete hatred of TV with maybee two exeption FSTV
and World link. Actualy I have been totaly TV free for nine month.
What change in your perception of TV, now. Your aversion is about
the content or the way they present it, moving the camera  seventy time in
one minute. ? Volume going up down , non stop ?Or both ?
Good bless
Francis

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 2:59:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron,

Ron, we all like you, we all have our problems, we understand.  Schmoolyboy was nice enough to lead you to a doc who said he would help – GO.  It’s a no brainer.  The doc said he would help you.  You don’t have to walk into his office cold and wondering if he is one of those asshole docs who do not like addicts.  You don’t have to worry about him judging you, taking your money and saying sorry can’t help you.  I mean no disrespect but it really doesn’t get any better than a doc knowing in advance that you need “that” kind of help and offering to help you.  Santa can’t help you, the doc can.  Now, you got the name, address and phone number of a doc that said he would help you.  Run to the phone and set up an appointment -today.  Us on the forum can listen but can only help so much, you got to at least make an appointment.  Do you know how many people would jump at a chance like this?  Take some action – NOW!!!  Please do not take this as disrespect, just think about it.  What more do you want?  What more can anyone do?  It’s your turn, Ron – MOVE.  Before it’s too late.
Good luck to you Ron,  see the doc before Christmas and before he changes his mind.
It’s up to you now,
– JIM

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: [Ibogaine] FWD – 燙OLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 16, 2004 at 2:31:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Everybody,

Ya know, I would like to ask a senator or representative why is pot not legalized, just to hear their answer.  What do you think they would say?  If they are going to fine you or put you in jail for using it they should have a good answer.  America has the most people in jail per capita than any other country including China, Russia, Cuba, etc.  Half are for non violent drug offences.  Quick, think of a way America could save millions of dollars.

– JIM

Best to ya,

– JIM
BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:
I want to ride on the peace train with Jeff. Who else is going? But wait ………………..who’s going to stay here and fight the idiocy of the drug war? Preston, you and Howard stay here and kick their ass, the rest of us will run to Canada. I sadly joke about this shit but it kills me. I just don’t get the logic. Drink all the booze you want and here take this methadone and be hooked for the rest of your life but don’t you smoke any herb cause it will kill you.*&^+_)(*&^%$#@#@! Fuck ’em and feed ’em beans. I will not back down from these assholes.                                 Randy

> ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:54:58 -0500
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA

man it is mind boggling how narrow minded these cats are! But we know that from their ibogaine track record…
i am getting out a here asap!
Jeff
Who now can get out …

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Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] 18-MC anti HIV
Date: December 16, 2004 at 2:02:25 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Planta Med. 2004 Sep;70(9):808-12.

Anti-HIV-1 activity of the Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine.

Silva EM, Cirne-Santos CC, Frugulhetti IC, Galvao-Castro B, Saraiva EM,
Kuehne ME, Bou-Habib DC.
Laboratorio Avancado de Saude Publica, Centro de Pesquisas Goncalo Moniz,
Salvador, BA, Brazil.

The Iboga alkaloid congener 18-methoxycoronaridine (18-MC) exhibits in vitro
leishmanicidal and in vivo anti-addiction properties. In this paper, we
describe that 18-MC inhibits HIV-1 infection in human peripheral blood mononuclear
cells (PBMCs) and monocyte-derived macrophages. We found that 18-MC inhibits
the replication of primary isolates of HIV-1 in a dose-dependent manner,
regardless of the preferential chemokine receptor usage of the isolates, at
non-cell-toxic concentrations. The antiretroviral activity of 18-MC resulted in EC (50)
values of 22.5 +/- 4.7 microM and 23 +/- 4.5 microM for R5 and X4 isolates,
respectively, in PBMCs, and a therapeutic index (TI) of 14.5. Similar findings
were observed for inhibition of HIV-1 replication in macrophages: EC (50)
equal to 12.8 +/- 5 microM and 9.5 +/- 3 microM for an R5 virus after 14 and 21
days of infection, respectively, with TI equal to 25.6 and 34.5. 18-MC
moderately inhibits the HIV-1 enzyme reverse transcriptase (IC (50) = 69.4 microM),
which at least partially explains its antiretroviral activity.

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 1:19:13 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Keep us posted Ron, we’re all rooting for you!  I hope you enjoy Christmas and the New Year, good luck with everything.  You know you can do it-you have to!

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 11:58:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/16/04 11:31:34 AM, AbbotAngel@aol.com writes:

<<
In a message dated 16/12/2004 14:15:18 GMT Standard Time,  think@francomm.com
writes:

<http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html>

Howard

cant get through to this address is it right
Love donna

Try this without ther < >
http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html

Howard

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 11:20:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 16/12/2004 14:15:18 GMT Standard Time, think@francomm.com writes:
<http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html>

Howard

cant get through to this address is it right

Love donna

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen TV
Date: December 16, 2004 at 10:43:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen !
I am collecting  all your E-mail religiously, It’s amazing to see
how fast you are changing for the better.
It’s the first time I can follow a recovery with Ibogaine. I am so happy for
you !! English is not my language so I lack vocabulary to express how
astonished I am seing the miracle you  went throught. This an amazing grace
🙂

I have a question for you related to adversion to TV. I’ve read
several time in this list that Ibogaine change your perception or taste
regarding TV. I have a complete hatred of TV with maybee two exeption FSTV
and World link. Actualy I have been totaly TV free for nine month.
What change in your perception of TV, now. Your aversion is about
the content or the way they present it, moving the camera  seventy time in
one minute. ? Volume going up down , non stop ?Or both ?
Good bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen

Hi Jasen,
It’s good to know you’re up and about.  Just to let you know, yes,
when
I read your emails if I’m not cracking up there is an ear to ear grin.
You
vibe so high. You always did but now it’s like off the charts. You must
leave trails of warm fuzzies wherever you go.
I had a pretty solid month of different degrees of fatigue.  Then for
the next two months went back to work at half time with 2 hour naps during
mid day.  I  am still not working as I was pre-ibogaine, however then I
was
driven by madness to get the money for obvious reasons.  I so far am not
placing such high value in my labor for $ vs. taking it a little easy and
having peace of mind.
I get that you realize the benefit of eating healthy to heal and I’ve
recall you mention massage, which is detoxing as well as beneficial.  I
found the ibogaine sent me into this healing(physical as well) cleansing,
detoxing  state of ongoing morph. I was physically ultra sensitive to
everything.  What helped me was to do protocols that help support your
body
and mind.  I did chiro and energy work every week as well as colonics
every
week.  I have heard accupuncture mentioned here and would have attempted
it
if not for legistical and financial reasons at the time.  It’s all good.
Use
your instincts and intuition.  Breathing, meditating, yoga, stretching,
visualizing what you intend for yourself and the help and  support you are
thankful to have at your beck and call all work in healing.
I also had an aversion to tv.  The first month not even 5 hours total
tv.  And music day and night.  I had my sleep cd’s.  Still use them
sometimes as my sleep is still erratic after 5 months.  Current sleep
issues
can be from some other source than ibogaine backlash.  I’m still listening
to tons of music. Music is like a legal drug.  It’s so motivating and
soothing and soulful.  I’m also noticing the tv and other stuff will try
to
or creep slowly back in. That’s why these next couple of months are like
gold to do what you can.  I am still feeling completely resistant to
slipping back to drugs, however It’s the behavior that got(kept) me there
that I have to work on and be sure not to hook into someother destructive
pastime.
On the relationship front, just a quick thought, I notice in myself
and
others than there is this emotional stifling from drug use.  So there are
parts of you that are still 15 when you started.  I also would not have
any
relationships the last 10 years of drug use. Just go slow. Friends are
good,
sex is good if that’s what you want, just take a few good long breaths
before you dive in with your young heart before you have a sense of who
you
are, what your needs are and what you have to bring into a relationship.
I love your enthusiasm, your sense of worldliness and innocence all
at
the same time.
I wish for you the healing and happiness you deserve and the
grounding
energy to realize your foes and adversities are there to teach you not to
defeat you. Ding ding .
Much love,
Martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee

Hey Martee,
You are so beautiful,your email lifts me,as do
your emails to others.You have given so much on this list.

I am drug free,well……,Cannabis now and again,but hey.

I am not lonley,just don’t have to much energy for visitors,
time to get a girlfriend I think.

Been single long enough.
I vowed I would not have another relationship untill
I was drug free.Otherwise to to painfull.

The angels say ,”Hi Martee”.
You know what I never realised just how much of a funny guy I am,
I am rediscovering my self,are you laughing yet?
I crack myself up.

Since being back home the tv has stayed off,3 days no tv. WOW

Just music music music
How long were you to fatigued to be bored for?

I am glad you are in my corner,the water and cotton buds really help.
Ding Ding.O.K I am back out there and my opponent is about to be knocked
out
have to work him a little more.
with love,Jasen,can’t
help
smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Jasen,
I understand the fatigue part.  I was too fatigued to be bored.  I
also found a lot of what I went through during my session didn’t come
to
the surface and make sense until something, usually very obscure, or
someones action, inuendo or verbalizations clicked something in my
memory(brain or mind?) that made me understand the significance of some
of
my visions.  It was also about being alone with someone(self) that
you’re
not sure of what is your motivation, likes, dislikes, reactions to
things
now that it’s not thru a drug veil.  Note the difference between being
alone and lonely, or solace and isolation, or time to reflect and
boredom.
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Haven’t you noticed, suddenley we’re light and breezy,
Because of all the beautiful and new things I’m learning about you
day
by day!
I know this is Korny as hell but it just came out.  I never was a hugh
fan
of showtunes.  Where ever inspiration and acknowledgment comes, hey
it’s
all good!
Truth be told, I feel like the noribogaine has left my brain.
Elvis
has left the building!!  I have had some lower dips than the past few
months but am still doing ok.  I guess this is the reality part.  My
advice to you would be to do whatever work on yourself spiritually,
emotionally, physically (to stay balanced) so you can stay healthy.  I
am
looking forward to starting an already long standing established
Ibogaine
therapy group on Thursday.  I’ll be the new kid on the block.
Jasen, I feel you are an intelligent, kind, open minded, receptive
young man and I’m in your corner along with so many others and all your
angels.
Sending healing energy
and love your way,
Martee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 9:14:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks.

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:58 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure

For those of you who were not able to attend the Ibogaine Roundtable during
the 5th National Harm Reduction conference, we now have a beta version of the
Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure that was presented during the Roundtable in New
Orleans, available at http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html

It is a beta version as the final version will be incorporated in a more
detailed Harm Reduction Conference Report that will hopefully be up in a week or
so.

In the meantime enjoy <http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html> and please
let me know your feelings on the content and if you discover any technical
errors.

Enjoy

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee/Jasen
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:33:30 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,
It’s good to know you’re up and about.  Just to let you know, yes, when I read your emails if I’m not cracking up there is an ear to ear grin.  You vibe so high. You always did but now it’s like off the charts. You must leave trails of warm fuzzies wherever you go.
I had a pretty solid month of different degrees of fatigue.  Then for the next two months went back to work at half time with 2 hour naps during mid day.  I  am still not working as I was pre-ibogaine, however then I was driven by madness to get the money for obvious reasons.  I so far am not placing such high value in my labor for $ vs. taking it a little easy and having peace of mind.
I get that you realize the benefit of eating healthy to heal and I’ve recall you mention massage, which is detoxing as well as beneficial.  I found the ibogaine sent me into this healing(physical as well) cleansing, detoxing  state of ongoing morph. I was physically ultra sensitive to everything.  What helped me was to do protocols that help support your body and mind.  I did chiro and energy work every week as well as colonics every week.  I have heard accupuncture mentioned here and would have attempted it if not for legistical and financial reasons at the time.  It’s all good. Use your instincts and intuition.  Breathing, meditating, yoga, stretching, visualizing what you intend for yourself and the help and  support you are thankful to have at your beck and call all work in healing.
I also had an aversion to tv.  The first month not even 5 hours total tv.  And music day and night.  I had my sleep cd’s.  Still use them sometimes as my sleep is still erratic after 5 months.  Current sleep issues can be from some other source than ibogaine backlash.  I’m still listening to tons of music. Music is like a legal drug.  It’s so motivating and soothing and soulful.  I’m also noticing the tv and other stuff will try to or creep slowly back in. That’s why these next couple of months are like gold to do what you can.  I am still feeling completely resistant to slipping back to drugs, however It’s the behavior that got(kept) me there that I have to work on and be sure not to hook into someother destructive pastime.
On the relationship front, just a quick thought, I notice in myself and others than there is this emotional stifling from drug use.  So there are parts of you that are still 15 when you started.  I also would not have any relationships the last 10 years of drug use. Just go slow. Friends are good, sex is good if that’s what you want, just take a few good long breaths before you dive in with your young heart before you have a sense of who you are, what your needs are and what you have to bring into a relationship.
I love your enthusiasm, your sense of worldliness and innocence all at the same time.
I wish for you the healing and happiness you deserve and the grounding energy to realize your foes and adversities are there to teach you not to defeat you. Ding ding .
Much love,
Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee

Hey Martee,
You are so beautiful,your email lifts me,as do
your emails to others.You have given so much on this list.

I am drug free,well……,Cannabis now and again,but hey.

I am not lonley,just don’t have to much energy for visitors,
time to get a girlfriend I think.

Been single long enough.
I vowed I would not have another relationship untill
I was drug free.Otherwise to to painfull.

The angels say ,”Hi Martee”.
You know what I never realised just how much of a funny guy I am,
I am rediscovering my self,are you laughing yet?
I crack myself up.

Since being back home the tv has stayed off,3 days no tv. WOW

Just music music music
How long were you to fatigued to be bored for?

I am glad you are in my corner,the water and cotton buds really help.
Ding Ding.O.K I am back out there and my opponent is about to be knocked out
have to work him a little more.
with love,Jasen,can’t help smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Jasen,
I understand the fatigue part.  I was too fatigued to be bored.  I
also found a lot of what I went through during my session didn’t come to
the surface and make sense until something, usually very obscure, or
someones action, inuendo or verbalizations clicked something in my
memory(brain or mind?) that made me understand the significance of some of
my visions.  It was also about being alone with someone(self) that you’re
not sure of what is your motivation, likes, dislikes, reactions to things
now that it’s not thru a drug veil.  Note the difference between being
alone and lonely, or solace and isolation, or time to reflect and boredom.
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Haven’t you noticed, suddenley we’re light and breezy,
Because of all the beautiful and new things I’m learning about you day
by day!
I know this is Korny as hell but it just came out.  I never was a hugh fan
of showtunes.  Where ever inspiration and acknowledgment comes, hey it’s
all good!
Truth be told, I feel like the noribogaine has left my brain. Elvis
has left the building!!  I have had some lower dips than the past few
months but am still doing ok.  I guess this is the reality part.  My
advice to you would be to do whatever work on yourself spiritually,
emotionally, physically (to stay balanced) so you can stay healthy.  I am
looking forward to starting an already long standing established Ibogaine
therapy group on Thursday.  I’ll be the new kid on the block.
Jasen, I feel you are an intelligent, kind, open minded, receptive
young man and I’m in your corner along with so many others and all your
angels.
Sending healing energy
and love your way,
Martee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] {ot} Shameless Self Publicity
Date: December 16, 2004 at 6:18:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear List,

A little bit of shameless self publicity with an altruistic twist!

For those of you interested in obtaining a paperback version of the book Amazing Grace, the cheapest price can be had here at $14.50, 5$ off the Amazon price!

www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=20623

Seasons Greetings

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] excerpt is available
Date: December 16, 2004 at 4:37:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.maps.org/avarchive/

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 1:33:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,
I would have to agree with others on the list.
Stay and tell.
Love Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: Kirsty Sutherland
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 3:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;Martee
Date: December 16, 2004 at 1:27:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Martee,
You are so beautiful,your email lifts me,as do
your emails to others.You have given so much on this list.

I am drug free,well……,Cannabis now and again,but hey.

I am not lonley,just don’t have to much energy for visitors,
time to get a girlfriend I think.

Been single long enough.
I vowed I would not have another relationship untill
I was drug free.Otherwise to to painfull.

The angels say ,”Hi Martee”.
You know what I never realised just how much of a funny guy I am,
I am rediscovering my self,are you laughing yet?
I crack myself up.

Since being back home the tv has stayed off,3 days no tv. WOW

Just music music music
How long were you to fatigued to be bored for?

I am glad you are in my corner,the water and cotton buds really help.
Ding Ding.O.K I am back out there and my opponent is about to be knocked out
have to work him a little more.
with love,Jasen,can’t help smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Jasen,
I understand the fatigue part.  I was too fatigued to be bored.  I
also found a lot of what I went through during my session didn’t come to
the surface and make sense until something, usually very obscure, or
someones action, inuendo or verbalizations clicked something in my
memory(brain or mind?) that made me understand the significance of some of
my visions.  It was also about being alone with someone(self) that you’re
not sure of what is your motivation, likes, dislikes, reactions to things
now that it’s not thru a drug veil.  Note the difference between being
alone and lonely, or solace and isolation, or time to reflect and boredom.
Getting to know you, getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you, getting to hope you like me.
Haven’t you noticed, suddenley we’re light and breezy,
Because of all the beautiful and new things I’m learning about you day
by day!
I know this is Korny as hell but it just came out.  I never was a hugh fan
of showtunes.  Where ever inspiration and acknowledgment comes, hey it’s
all good!
Truth be told, I feel like the noribogaine has left my brain. Elvis
has left the building!!  I have had some lower dips than the past few
months but am still doing ok.  I guess this is the reality part.  My
advice to you would be to do whatever work on yourself spiritually,
emotionally, physically (to stay balanced) so you can stay healthy.  I am
looking forward to starting an already long standing established Ibogaine
therapy group on Thursday.  I’ll be the new kid on the block.
Jasen, I feel you are an intelligent, kind, open minded, receptive
young man and I’m in your corner along with so many others and all your
angels.
Sending healing energy
and love your way,
Martee

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure
Date: December 16, 2004 at 12:58:53 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For those of you who were not able to attend the Ibogaine Roundtable during
the 5th National Harm Reduction conference, we now have a beta version of the
Ibogaine Roundtable Brochure that was presented during the Roundtable in New
Orleans, available at http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html

It is a beta version as the final version will be incorporated in a more
detailed Harm Reduction Conference Report that will hopefully be up in a week or
so.

In the meantime enjoy <http://www.doraweiner.org/cover_hrc.html> and please
let me know your feelings on the content and if you discover any technical
errors.

Enjoy

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 16, 2004 at 12:32:45 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If we all came out when we were GETTING well I think there wouldn’t be many on the list!!
I got a long ways to go too…..and I’m staying put…..I’d like it if you stayed Ronny boy…..this is all a part of getting well……. At least that’s what I am finding… seeing people at all different stages is amazing… where else can we get such a vivid picture of addiction at any stage??
Stay…
Kirsty
From: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 5:00 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Memorial Service for Gary Webb
Date: December 15, 2004 at 11:23:46 PM EST
To: “Newsroom-L” <newsroom-l@lists.netspace.org>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: “From The Wilderness Email Alert List” <subscribers@fromthewilderness.com>
To: <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:13 PM
Subject: Memorial Service for Gary Webb

FTW’s Newest Feature Story

——————————————————————————–
** Memorial Service for Gary Webb **
Doubletree Hotel in Sacramento
Garden Terrace Room
December 18th at 2:00 p.m.
2001 Point West Way (map)
(Ph) 916-929-8855

More at: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/index.html


You received this message because you are a
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 10:59:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the invitation but my ego won’t let me be the posterchild for drugs suck. there’s a time to listen and watch.. i’ll come out when i’m getting well, long ways to go.
love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: The Garden
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: December 15, 2004 at 7:40:24 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You passed, I’ll give you an A this time but next time try to give more
details in your narrative 😉

.:vector:.

— BiscuitBoy714@aol.com wrote:

Test   TeSt         tEsT      teSt          my messeges are coming
back
not sent

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:46:03 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Test   TeSt         tEsT      teSt          my messeges are coming back not sent

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:42:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I want to ride on the peace train with Jeff. Who else is going? But wait ………………..who’s going to stay here and fight the idiocy of the drug war? Preston, you and Howard stay here and kick their ass, the rest of us will run to Canada. I sadly joke about this shit but it kills me. I just don’t get the logic. Drink all the booze you want and here take this methadone and be hooked for the rest of your life but don’t you smoke any herb cause it will kill you.*&^+_)(*&^%$#@#@! Fuck ’em and feed ’em beans. I will not back down from these assholes.                                 Randy
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:54:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man it is mind boggling how narrow minded these cats are! But we know that from their ibogaine track record…
i am getting out a here  asap!
Jeff
Who now can get out …

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] FWD –  COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:54:58 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man it is mind boggling how narrow minded these cats are! But we know that from their ibogaine track record…
i am getting out a here  asap!
Jeff
Who now can get out …

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:42:52 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Does sound like withdrawal symptoms, but maybe a trip to an osteopath or
Reiki practitioner wouldn’t be a bad idea?  Perhaps some realignment of
spine or chakra system?  Fine tuning, so to speak…
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com [mailto:Jeffgd1@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, 16 December 2004 8:09 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen
my back and pelvis aches but i do not think it is a problem for a dr i
think it is the paying the piper so to speak of ten years on the methadone.
i get these strange waves of painful energy flowing up my spine ….is that
what you are experiencing? I am about a week ahead of you and it is still
not great but way way way better than a week and a half ago.
great hearing from you
jeff

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] FWD – COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:41:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Tue, 14 Dec 2004
Source: New York Times (NY)
Copyright: 2004 The New York Times Company
Contact: letters@nytimes.com
Website: http://www.nytimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/298
Author: Donald G. McNeil, Jr.
Please: See ‘The UMass Amherst MMJ Production Facility Project’ for a
detailed background and timeline along with links to all the documents
involved at http://www.maps.org/mmj/mmjfacility.html
Cited: University of Massachusetts-Amherst
http://www.umass.edu/plsoils/index.html
Cited: Drug Enforcement Administration http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov
Cited: Marijuana Policy Project http://www.mpp.org
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

COLLEGE FAILS IN BID TO GROW MARIJUANA

A longstanding request to grow marijuana at the University of Massachusetts
so it can be tested for medical uses has been turned down by the Drug
Enforcement Administration.

The decision was faxed to the university on Friday and made public
yesterday by the Marijuana Policy Project, an independent group that favors
legalization of marijuana, particularly for medical uses.

A spokeswoman for the D.E.A. said the agency would have no comment beyond
its order, which gave the university 30 days to appeal.

The dispute is over marijuana in its smoked or vaporized form. Capsules of
THC, or tetrahydrocannabinol, one of the plant’s active ingredients, can be
prescribed in many states for cancer and AIDS patients suffering nausea and
appetite loss. But proponents of medical marijuana argue that the inhaled
form is more effective and contains more than 50 active ingredients that
the capsules do not.

In its order, the drug agency said the lone government-licensed marijuana
farm, operated by the University of Mississippi, grew enough for
researchers. It said that 18 medical studies using the drug had been
approved since 2000. But Dr. Lyle E. Craker, the professor of plant biology
at the University of Massachusetts who applied for the license three years
ago, said researchers complained that the government’s marijuana was weak
and that it was hard to get permission to use it.

“We wanted to have a source independent from the government and with a
known potency so doctors can run clinical trials,” he said. Researchers
would still need D.E.A. permission to work with the drug.

In its order, the agency said that after contacting researchers, it
determined that the Mississippi crop was of “sufficient quantity and
quality” to meet the researchers’ needs.

Advocates of medical marijuana complained that the D.E.A. had prejudged the
results of clinical trials of smoked or vaporized marijuana before they
could even be conducted.

The agency’s order said smoking “ultimately cannot be the permitted
delivery system for any potential marijuana medication due to the
deleterious effects and the difficulty in monitoring the efficaciousness.”

In 10 states, including California, patients with a doctor’s recommendation
may smoke marijuana without fear of state prosecution. The federal
government opposes those protections and has arrested users.

—————-
MAPS_Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary Association
for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).
To [un]subscribe, email the message text,
[un]subscribe maps_forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org
List archives can be browsed at www.maps.org/forum
Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo
Date: December 15, 2004 at 4:22:32 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

Funny as hell finding about the doc and demerol.  As far as tooth pain, go to a drug store or maybe health food store and get clove oil.  A bottle is about 1/2 oz and cost about a dollar.  Don’t discount this.  I am not saying it works as good as in the movie Marathon Man but it is much better than orajel and stuff like that.

I have had Talwin but never been hooked on it.  Do not use Talwin with narcotics like opiates because it acts as a week antaginst.  Do a Google search on Talwin or check out the PDR and it will tell you something like it is about 5% of the antaganist as naltrexon or something like that, I haven’t looked it up in years.  Other than that you have the same problem as a lot of us on the forum – a addict who needs pain meds.  As you know most docs don’t like addicts and will not write for pain meds.  Ask your dentist if there is anything they can give you for pain and that you had trouble with narcotics in the past.  There are a couple of pain meds that can help but as one doc said to me anything strong for pain is addictive.  One that comes to mind is Torradol (sp) the other is Ultram.  I have never taken these so don’t know how they work.  BTW I have read a horror story about a person taking metadone then going to a hospital and getting Standol – Don’t do it – you will go through hell.  If your clean you can take Standol, it is pretty powerful but then again addictive.

Best to ya,

– JIM

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
You make me laugh Randy.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 4:05:45 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is not uncommon for people
coming off of long term narcotic use to find that the narcotics have masked a
physical condition that needs attention.<

as I can vouch for this, I’ll say, yer right Howard, too true.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hi Jasen,

Why don’t you have a doctor look at your back.  Maybe it is nothing to do
with withdrawal at all but, some medical disorder.  It is not uncommon for people
coming off of long term narcotic use to find that the narcotics have masked a
physical condition that needs attention.

Howard

In a message dated 12/15/04 1:52:01 AM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< Hey Jeff,

Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me
too.

Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really
p.ssing me off.

But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am
only talking up to 15%

withdrawals.

I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to
come off  Methadone.

The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken
daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at
a physical level,your soul can

feel tortured wanting to jump out of your
body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.

I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.

With love,Jasen smiling. >>

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:39:17 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I remember experiencing similar issues, for me it was a lot of getting used to being back in my body.

I’d been ignoring aches and pains by the distraction of opiates, and had been over-compensating usage of certain muscles and I was a mess, physically. chiropractic and massage helped, then again the main reason i got strung out in the first place is because i broke my back, and never really focused much on physical therapy so I had  to re-train all of the muscles in my back. still ain’t quite right and I battle on and off chronic pain to this day.

Stay The Course!

_.dh

On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 09:08 AM, Jeffgd1@aol.com wrote:

Jasen
my back and pelvis aches but i do not think it is a problem for a dr i think it is the paying the piper so to speak of ten years on the methadone.
i get these strange waves of painful energy flowing up my spine ….is that what you are experiencing? I am about a week ahead of you and it is still not great but way way way better than a week and a half ago.
great hearing from you
jeff

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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:08:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen
my back and pelvis aches but i do not think it is a problem for a dr i think it is the paying the piper so to speak of ten years on the methadone.
i get these strange waves of painful energy flowing up my spine ….is that what you are experiencing? I am about a week ahead of you and it is still not great but way way way better than a week and a half ago.
great hearing from you
jeff

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:24:41 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

Why don’t you have a doctor look at your back.  Maybe it is nothing to do
with withdrawal at all but, some medical disorder.  It is not uncommon for people
coming off of long term narcotic use to find that the narcotics have masked a
physical condition that needs attention.

Howard

In a message dated 12/15/04 1:52:01 AM, JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au writes:

<< Hey Jeff,

Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me
too.

Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really
p.ssing me off.

But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am
only talking up to 15%

withdrawals.

I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to
come off  Methadone.

The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken
daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at
a physical level,your soul can

feel tortured wanting to jump out of your
body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.

I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.

With love,Jasen smiling. >>

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:07:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Ron
You have to continue to post, we have enought positive energy and we can share it with you. Keep doing the next right thing.
Please continue to post . We need you as you need us. You are remembering us how bad it was out there.
You are helping us in your way too, you are part of our life now, dont’ isolate. That should shall pass.
God bless
Franscis
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 15, 2004 at 10:35:54 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI Allisson

Thanks for getting back to me I know that getting down to a low level of meth is so hard, well done you are clean now and how was your sleeping after the meth?  I would really like to try the ibogaine but it sounds really trippy which is really scary to me.  I think i’ll do the sub again i’ll keep you posted

love donnaxx

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:53:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hannah:
i really believe the man is trying to help me. i can’t do anything meaningful sick, got to make a move, pray it’s the right one.  i’m currently going nowhere fast, headed for a big crash, feel like hell all the time. my dad’s dying as i write, but so am i. i appreciate your kind thoughts and posts. i will chance a trip to this guy schmooly mentioned on faith, hope my pop’s ok on return and the kind doc who offered to help me really will when i see him. i can’t do it alone. i won’t post unless my situation changes. this forum needs positive energy, i want to be part of that. love, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:26:26 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanx Jasen. If we all pay attention and get a good grade we might be able to come up with something that helps and pass it on.             Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:22:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,
YES FIBROPLEX PLUS,It is a Magnesium compound,with many other minerals,it is sold by Metagenics.
It supplies building blocks for energy production,and seems to ground you a little,relaxes you as magnesium can do.

As you know Randy,when people are in withdrawal,unless what they take takes away all the pain they don’t think it works.
Also Kava Kava and passionflower,it works,helps and the body loves it.
Love ya mate,
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: Spam Alert: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home

Jasen, can you be more specific about this fibroplex? Does this really help the anxiety after Methadone withdrawal treated with Ibogaine? I’m trying to compile information and data to help, esp. with methadone it being so difficult to treat. I am living in your afterglow and it ROCKS. Your beautiful dude, keep it up.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:13:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hello Ann,
I think you are right about the medicine man/woman.
It is a long haul,but the load is light in comparison to the truck pulling it.

Insomnia,I can’t sleep at the moment,it is past midnight here in the
land of OZ. I do get 5 to 6 hours a day though,nowdays.Oh,I just realised
who you are,you are Randy’s mum. Super Mum,I am in awe at the unconditional
love you have for your son,your love for your son also helped me.

You are great.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ann B. Mullikin
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Greetings and Salutations, Jasen.   Slow but sure you are getting there.  A long haul for you and Randy too
but you are getting there and that’s the most important thing.  I remember how Randy complained about
the insomnia and I was a witness to it.  I’m glad I was because I can give witness to this remarkable
happening.  If there are parents who would talk to me about what took place I will be happy to volunteer.

We all know how Howard came to experience this phenomena but wonder how the pygmies discovered
it?  Must have been a medicine man/woman in the tribe?

Regards,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:03:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen, can you be more specific about this fibroplex? Does this really help the anxiety after Methadone withdrawal treated with Ibogaine? I’m trying to compile information and data to help, esp. with methadone it being so difficult to treat. I am living in your afterglow and it ROCKS. Your beautiful dude, keep it up.
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:01:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
Yes,I do feel amazing,I am amazing,…Julie.
It is beautiful, magical,the birds in the trees, they are singing so happily,
joyfully,…playfully watching me.

I am getting stronger,becoming better,”we can rebuild him,we have the technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished rebuilding me. …….:)
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Julie,
Nice to hear from you.
Day 21,feeling (was feeling very anxious) as I ran out of fibroplex
Which is a magnesium compound (basically).
Sister sent some got it today,now tolerable.

Legs still not firmly grounded,still feel as if the marrow in my legs is
Not there,hollow feeling.But slowly filling. Restless and home sick.
I am feeling a lot better though I must say.

Tommorow I go to Amsterdam city and I will stay there for 4 days until the
12th then yee ha HOME.Mmmmm I suppose it is my last night here.

Sara is great,it is as if I was doing this at mums place.You are looked
after quite well,and she knows how to dose. I tell you,The cannabis tea,
Cookies and mushrooms helped more than I would have ever thought. helped
tremendously.I was quite unsettled about tripping whilst hangingout,but it
isn’t really tripping,its mushrooms as they were created.

All legal here in Amsterdam,people are allowed to use cannabis for pain
relief or fun.You can legally buy mushrooms in a coffee shop.

I tell you what, I miss company,looking forward to chatting with the girls
and guys in these coffee shops,do you know they even have a hash museum.

How are you feeling now Julie? How many days has it been?
How are you feeling Randy and how many days,where’s sean gone?

Still a bit spacy in the head energy slowly building.If I get to bored and
anxious I just drink some cannabis tea,…….ahh, allright,smoke a joint
and listen to U2,pinkfloyd,and ELO,wish I had brought more cd’s.

Lower back still achey,restless.My mind is becoming clearer.I do feel like a
ciggy now and again,though I am a strong person,I just say,’no
thanks”.Well,…
Not quite that easy.

Oh,yea,I got fire burning in me again,and it feels great.It’s like,….WOW.
A lot of exhausted crying,but really good stuff. I now know for sure,my
brother is ok.It’s almost like I spoke to him but I canot remember what was
said,it was like he was really happy with me lots of love pouring from
him,smiling,just beautiful. We were also the best of mates,confidants.
I was also shown some parts of my life where something hurt me without me
consciously knowing.Then I would cry the blockage out.

WOW we are sensitive beings.

I got spunk in my veins again,like I did at 15 (almost).
I re read the last sentence and think,wow you were just a baby a kid.
Now that kid is free,and I can do anything.

With love Jasen,….smiling.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 17:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Ann B. Mullikin” <think@francomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:01:52 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Greetings and Salutations, Jasen.   Slow but sure you are getting there.  A long haul for you and Randy too
but you are getting there and that’s the most important thing.  I remember how Randy complained about
the insomnia and I was a witness to it.  I’m glad I was because I can give witness to this remarkable
happening.  If there are parents who would talk to me about what took place I will be happy to volunteer.

We all know how Howard came to experience this phenomena but wonder how the pygmies discovered
it?  Must have been a medicine man/woman in the tribe?

Regards,

ann
think@francomm.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jasen Chamoun
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 9:01:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Huh Huh Huh,good one,I
used to dream of doing so when I was a child.
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “Germán DC” <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home

Jasen,

please don´t end up working for Oscar Goldman.

love from the south.
BRAVO !!!!
gdc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 3:01 AM

-“we can rebuild him,we have the
technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished
rebuilding me. …….:)

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From: Germán DC <gcaldelas@fibertel.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 8:52:01 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen,

please don´t end up working for Oscar Goldman.

love from the south.
BRAVO !!!!
gdc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 3:01 AM

-“we can rebuild him,we have the
technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished
rebuilding me. …….:)

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: Deborah Vincent <dcvincent@dodo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 15, 2004 at 7:56:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jasen,
It’s So great to hear your strong true voice.. So great for you to be free!! I’m So happy for you and positively green with envy! Oh!!! To have a choice! To be able to travel on the spur of the moment! Sheer bliss surely! The liquid handcuffs are really dragging me down, destroying my teeth , stomach and sleep patterns!! I’m so over the whole thing! The great conspiracy! But hopefully by march I’ll be in your place – I’m hoping to be able to visit Sara in Feb. Can you tell me what the exchange rate is- Aust$ to Euro?
I’m living in Melbourne.. Dear downtown St.Kilda.  Where in Aust. are you Jasen?  When you’re totally better I’d love to have a chat about the whole eboga trip! I’m pretty much in the same boat that you’d been rowing…
Smoking fags at 9. Tripping & smoking grass at 12 when my folks split. Addicted to heroin on and off since 15 when I bailed out of school and home. Then as an adult, cocaine for 5 years instead of hammer… Totally Clean for 2 x 3 yr periods …I used to have awesome self restraint.. I could just quit! I resisted going on the methadone programme forever – then broke down and gave in in 2001 when my body Really decided it didn’t want to hang out any more… I’d get admitted to hospital every time I try these days. 47 on Christmas day and so depressed.
But I don’t want to bring you down.. I wanted to say Bravo Jasen!! Be Strong and Well and Victorious!!! and Merry Christmas!!! Happy New Year – The first day of the first year of your new adult life! Make every minute count!
Love Deborah

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:37:27 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara,
Ok. But it might be reassuring for those on Benzos to hear of others taking treatment successfully for the same dose levels of addiction that they have?
Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Dear Lee,

It is possible, but what’s the point? Each one of them has a different constitution which means  each one will react different to the same dosage.
Your reaction to the extract is totally different then other people, your constitution, issues and motivation of using Iboga/ ibogaine are also different then anybody else is, that is why there is no one shoe that fits all. And that’s why I try to work in tune with the initiate needs physically and mentally.
No matter what the amount they have been on before and how long they have been using.what I look at  is NOW! What would be helpful now.

Sara
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: woensdag 15 december 2004 11:51
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Sara,

I remember Ron asking about the level of addiction they had.

Is it possible to get some kind of measure of benzo use (+whatever else) with body weight, along with the dose lowels of extract taken?

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 15, 2004 at 6:14:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee,

It is possible, but what’s the point? Each one of them has a different constitution which means  each one will react different to the same dosage.
Your reaction to the extract is totally different then other people, your constitution, issues and motivation of using Iboga/ ibogaine are also different then anybody else is, that is why there is no one shoe that fits all. And that’s why I try to work in tune with the initiate needs physically and mentally.
No matter what the amount they have been on before and how long they have been using.what I look at  is NOW! What would be helpful now.

Sara
Van: Lee Albert [mailto:myeboga@yahoo.co.uk] 
Verzonden: woensdag 15 december 2004 11:51
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Sara,

I remember Ron asking about the level of addiction they had.

Is it possible to get some kind of measure of benzo use (+whatever else) with body weight, along with the dose lowels of extract taken?

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:50:36 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sara,

I remember Ron asking about the level of addiction they had.

Is it possible to get some kind of measure of benzo use (+whatever else) with body weight, along with the dose lowels of extract taken?

Lee

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl> wrote:
Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen.
Date: December 15, 2004 at 5:48:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen.
What you wrote is very beautiful.
I read your other post and agree pretty much with a lot of what you say.
There are differences with the extract, certainly in the beginning. The reason I stopped using it was to do with repeated use. I felt that the body builds up a resistance to the composition far quicker than it does to the ibogaine and thus reduces the effectiveness of the session. However I hope one day I may have the chance of taking eboga in Africa as i would like very much to return to the natural african setting to celebrate the sacrament with brothers. A kind of celebration of reaching the end of my path sometime soon.
Your are a good person Jasen and people like you make the world a better place.
Stay clean for God’s sake and your own.
Theres are a lot you can offer to many who are in dire need.
Love & Light,
Lee

Jasen Chamoun <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
There was this one other thing,after ingesting the 5 grams of Eboga,I saw
myself spread eagled
on a round medalion,like an 8 foot in diameter coin. One side of the coin
was jet black and the other a brilliant white.

I was strapped to it,the medalion spun into the air with me on it and then
the black side was ripped out of the medallin
and fell into a black abyss,(no fire or brimstone) :).When the black
detached from the white it felt as if I was falling into the
abyss whilst at the same time knowing I was still on the medallion strapped
to the brilliant diamond white,then the white
medallion with me on it spun up again up up, into all brightness and I was
enveloped in love,turn and face the light you have nothing to fear,
I felt as if I had champagne bubbles going shring shring through out my
body,in a straight line comming up from my stomach
and seperating into two at my shoulders then releasing through my
shoulders,it was a feeling of pure exstacy,pure love
and acceptance,with the knowing that you can not die and nothing is seperate
from me.I feel I was smeltered.

It was my experience of what happens when the body dies,you cannot die,you
vibrate into unother frequency,and leave your carrige behind.
Like what happens in reverse on earth with many incects, serpents,crabs,they
shed there skin,they are not thier skin. Inside out.

I connected with my brother,he was so beautiful,smiling and gleaming,living
in another freqency/dimension whatnot,telling me you cannot die,
and to live fully this is the way to honor his name(this was my wish)His
gleaming face was telling me everything is fine,do not be sad.
life with no end.we are seperate from nothing.I live within you,I feel him
strongly now.

with love Jasen.
>
> I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if
> they
> are too personal and that is not rare at all.
>
> Howard

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen.
Date: December 15, 2004 at 4:01:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

There was this one other thing,after ingesting the 5 grams of Eboga,I saw myself spread eagled
on a round medalion,like an 8 foot in diameter coin. One side of the coin was jet black and the other a brilliant white.

I was strapped to it,the medalion spun into the air with me on it and then the black side was ripped out of the medallin
and fell into a black abyss,(no fire or brimstone)  :).When the black detached from the white it felt as if I was falling into the
abyss whilst at the same time knowing I was still on the medallion strapped to the brilliant diamond white,then the white
medallion with me on it spun up again up up, into all brightness and I was enveloped in love,turn and face the light you have nothing to fear,
I felt as if I had champagne bubbles going shring shring through out my body,in a straight line comming up from my stomach
and seperating into two at my shoulders then releasing through my shoulders,it was a feeling of pure exstacy,pure love
and acceptance,with the knowing that you can not die and nothing is seperate from me.I feel I was smeltered.

It was my experience of what happens when the body dies,you cannot die,you vibrate into unother frequency,and leave your carrige behind.
Like what happens in reverse on earth with many incects, serpents,crabs,they shed there skin,they are not thier skin. Inside out.

I connected with my brother,he was so beautiful,smiling and gleaming,living in another freqency/dimension whatnot,telling me you cannot die,
and to live fully this is the way to honor his name(this was my wish)His gleaming face was telling me everything is fine,do not be sad.
life with no end.we are seperate from nothing.I live within you,I feel him strongly now.

with love Jasen.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 15, 2004 at 3:54:26 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah… My heart goes out to you.  It can be so hard.  I reckon a lot of the depression and feelings is down to withdrawals.  I think your about my daughters age and just wish I could tuck you up and make you feel better.  Try & think that there is a whole world out there, lots of different things, opportunities and experiences ahead.  Sometimes I think we all need to try a few times before it finally sinks through to our brain that we really don’t want to live like this anymore.  Don’t keep trying to be strong.  If you have a boyfriend or friends that want to help hold your hand out and say yes I need help.  Theres no shame in that and it might help you get stronger in the process.   Take care, Thinking of you & will keep following your posts to see how things go.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 5:55:42 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your wonderful notes-each one helped me in a different way.  You are all wonderful people and I’m very lucky to have you.  I am trying to just function but its not really happening.

I don’t know what to think of anything-I keep telling myself that I have to not let this get me down and I have to grab my opportunities else it’ll always be the same..  But I’m just so unhappy.  He came over last night and we rowed-I was just hurting so bad and he said some bad stuff and now I feel even worse.  On one hand I want to be really nice to him and look like I’m coping but on the other I feel so raw and hurt and desperate.  I’m starting to think I was blind all along.

I guess it will get easier and I am trying.  I see a psychiatrist next week but I saw him once before n he was crap.

Half the time I can’t stop shaking and all I can think is I need a hit cuz I daren’t think of anything else.  I’m scared I’m having a nervous breakdown.  I’m trying to like me but its hard when I hate myself for driving him away somehow.  I cry and can’t eat.

Hell either it’ll get better or it’ll finish me off!  I don’t want H but its all ive got right now.  I’m scoring for this lass else I wouldn’t be doing it at all cuz i can’t afford it myself.

I gave my dog Shiva lots of love today.  Thanks again everyone,  gee now I’m crying again.  I will write again when its something productive.

I hate myself cuz I hate depressed people who whine and that’s exactly what I am.

My dealer just rang so I’ve gotta sort this lass out.  Dunno why I bother-the gears so crap I don’t feel it anyway-the madness of it all!

Lots of love to you all,
I think I’m turning hysterical; 😉

Hannah xxx

From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 15, 2004 at 3:44:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No I didn’t use ibogaine because I didn’t really know too much about it back then.  Have been clean for 2 yrs this last time and a couple of yrs a while ago.  Seemed to have bounced around a lot back & forth but am feeling good now and the thought of using almost makes me start coughing up in advance if u know what I mean.  Did a bit of methadone,a lot of pills and a lot of sleeping.  The last few mgs of Methadone were the hardest by far.  Seemed to take ages and hurt lots even though it was down to such a small amount.  Feel like I’ve learned heaps from reading here but still don’t know of anyone in NZ that knows much about ibogaine.  Closest is Jason from Australia who has just been treated by Sarah in Holland and seems to be doing well.   Keep reading all the info.  There are so many people on this site with good advice and that are so well informed.    Best wishes.  Allison

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 2:05:36 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Allison

Thank you for that last message at least i know there is hope for me and my partner as before i read your message i thought it would never work one off one on, You have done really well i so envy you but watch this space I WILL DO IT !!!  did you use ibogaine????

Love donnax

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Howard!!!!!!!!
Date: December 15, 2004 at 3:11:30 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Howard,
Religious epiphany,no,.I don’t believe in religion, though I know what you mean. If I had to have a religion as such, it would be KINDNESS.
Science fiction,…Mmmm,well I suppose thats future science,I believe we will one day do what Captain Kirk did
and Star Trek does.

Checked out Amsterdam,would like to do it again when strong and healthy,like I am becoming.
I know if I posted some of my visions it could cause much disruption,some are political and almost to
powerful to believe.Maybe it is just my imagination.

I am still open,I have to be carefull what I let in,this is how I feel,I
think two more weeks and I will be jogging.
Ground controll to Major Tom.
With love,Jasen smiling.

Le 30/11/04 21:13, « HSLotsof@aol.com » <HSLotsof@aol.com> a écrit :

We have known each other before
Julie,I say this with the utmost respect,I feel I know
Randy,Sean,Howard,Martee,preston and wife and others on this list it’s
quite
odd.
Will talk soon Smiles Jasen.

Well Jasen,

We could all say we have been waiting for you. Now is this a religious
epiphany or just a science fiction scenario?  mmmmmm?

Have you checked out Amsterdam as Dave suggested?  One of the art museums
could be a really interesting tour.

I would love to have some idea of your visions though email is fine if
they
are too personal and that is not rare at all.

Howard

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:32:58 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen

There’s a Museum of Tropical Art or some such that is pretty
amazing, lots of interesting cultural stuff. Plus the Van Gough is
stunning – and small enough to handle if you’re low on energy.

Hey slowone@hush,
Thanks for the email,I got to go to a few places in Amsterdam.
however not as much as I would have liked,the energy level was very very low.

I like art and Van Gough I am pissed that I missed him.
Hey, hows this ,in the red light district the girls are behind windows,so the guys window shop.
Too confronting at the time for me. Maybe when I am a lot older,if I am single that is.

The coffee shops were easy,went to Amsterdam with
Zoe,a girl that I met at Sara’s,she came with her boyfriend Tom,we stayed the night at Amsterdam
as brother and sister type of thing,was great,I feel a conection with them both,strong,we got on great.
Holland is beautiful and so is Sara.
With love, Jasen smiling.

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen. 🙂
Date: December 15, 2004 at 2:07:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
I ate, drank,and smoked  a lot of  the fruit,
it really helped.I ate some for you too,and smoked a joint for you in
one of the dozen or so coffee shops I visited,it was super skunk
naturally grown,no chemical.You really enjoyed it. 🙂

I am better,my mental strength is getting much better,
body still crying now and then, but not too much.
Guess what ,…I  CAN HANDLE IT. WOO YOO.

I am home,I have not turned the tv on once,I used to watch
hours a night,now I am only interested in music.

I have not fully awakened yet,65 to 70 %.

My understanding is bliss,
My heart was filled with honey,it overflows
it  is wonderful. I wish you and Randy and others were in Australia
so we could go for a coffee now and again,I feel somehow we will meet.

I find I am listening to music I loved when I was 15 and under,
Led zepplin,ELO,Gerry Rafferty,the cars,police,U2.Pink Floyd and supertramp.

Wow,these guys,some of them either tried Eboga,or did a lot of tripping whilst composing some
of their songs,it is like some of the songs were talking to me,Wow what a great guitar solo,”buying a stair way to heaven” Led Zepplin.
I was tempted twice on the first day back,however the choice is easier now,I made my choice,”F.ck off.But
in a nice way,my body wants it my mind does not need it,the Eboga took a lot of the pain away,it cleared my
emotional blockages,healed my hurt,which we all have. I AM BEING HEALED and it is glorious.

Love ya girl.
With love,Jasen Smiling.

—– Original Message —– From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:02 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen

You sound so much better, Jasen…glad to hear it.  I
was thinking of you recently, wondering how it was
going for you.

Are you planning to travel at all?  How are the
Netherlands?  I’m so jealous you’re there right now,
and I hope you’ll test the fruits of the Cannabis Cup
for me.

love Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:40:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 7:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Jasen

There’s a Museum of Tropical Art or some such that is pretty amazing, lots of interesting cultural stuff. Plus the Van Gough is stunning – and small enough to handle if you’re low on energy.
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 13:02:30 -0800 Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com> wrote:
You sound so much better, Jasen…glad to hear it.  I
was thinking of you recently, wondering how it was
going for you.

Are you planning to travel at all?  How are the
Netherlands?  I’m so jealous you’re there right now,
and I hope you’ll test the fruits of the Cannabis Cup
for me.

love Julie

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:36:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mate,for some reason Randy,I cannot imagine you comming accross as preaching,YOU ARE DOING.
I love ya mate.
—– Original Message —–                                   with love, Jasen smiling.
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)

Jasen, have you looked at the staying clean link on the Mindvox page? There is some good advice there. I know for me that after 2 months I still feel rewired. The world hasn’t changed but what is in my head has. I intend to make it stay that way. Counseling, 12 step meetings, and being on this list daily keep me in the mix. Plus I never read this list without at least once laughing. It used to make me cry. Really. I really don’t mean to preach, I just want to see you get where you are going and be happy. I sure am.       Randy

From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:34:10 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,
Yeh you are right about the methadone.  It doesn’t seem to matter how low you get, it’s still a nightmare to come off. Heard of a guy who got down to 2 mg a day, and still had trouble!!  Was a huge decision to go back on it, but it’s for the best just now…..all part of the journey.
Kirsty
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au] 
Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 2004 7:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:34:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Lee,
Yes I am a winner,the love and support on this list is amazing,..healing,it is love.
Thankyou,I am experiencing a lot of changes,I am starting to know who you are.
With love Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Post Ibo (Jasen)

And I know everyone is happy for you. You are doing well post ibo. Looks like you are on a winner. A lot of changes coming through in your posts. Congratulations. Lee

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:26:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Jeff,
Thanks mate.Yes it is a long road also a good one,it is now 29 days for me too.
Yes you are right it seems to get better every few days.My back is really p.ssing me off.
But a small price to pay,When I bitch about the back or the this or that I am only talking up to 15%
withdrawals.
I will stick with my original thought of it takes a minimum of 6 weeks to come off  Methadone.
The methadone gets into every fibre of our being,how can it not when traken daily for years and years.

It is hard yes,Many of us are  very strong people,hanging out is not just at a physical level,your soul can
feel tortured wanting to jump out of your body,physically,emotionally,spiritually,can’t remember the fourth.

I know you understand fully of course as you have lived it.
I said hi to Sara for you and she remembered.
With love,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

hjasen
yes it is long road post eboga i know i am at 29 days or so and like i have saifd before it isn’t better everyday but it iS better everey few days. i would say i am 70 i was opiated for close to twenty years (on and off  and methadoned to the tune of 80- then down to 50 mgs for the last 9 years afte r the death of my wife from either cocain or heroin  od we whad a six year old sun i was trying to raise (fairly succesfully) but need to not be sick so you know all that.
following your journey from your home to Saras has ben so great i hope to go to her in six months or so
i feel you and am hanging tough  feeling noribogain ereleasing in fast furious pace at time sttill getting trails everyso often and more at times i love that.
i am going to try and go back to work in about 3 weeks i miss the fun of a big construction site i am an electrician and we all have a ballwhile working pretty hard
so hang tough brother and give sara a big hug frim bioth rachel and I we spoke briefly in march whe i was in amsterdam with a band  and she maybe remebers
Freak Freee
jeff

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:06:23 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Ron,
I whole heartedly agree with Randy.
With love ,Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —–
From: Ron Davis
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

thank you. you guys are great! ron
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron I must repeat myself. If Sara says she can help you I would bet my grandfathers sax that she can. And that sax is the only thing except for my family I didn’t lose in my addiction. None of this is cut and dry. We all took a leap of faith. I’ve had major colon surgery that I didn’t talk about because I was afraid they wouldn’t treat me. I wanted to be clean so I took a leap of faith. My mother held her breath for 2 days while I tripped. It never entered my mind while I was in the holodeck. Ibogaine is a gift from GOD and Mother Nature. They know what to do better than we do. Hang tough dude.         Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Hey n
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:03:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey N,
I am keeping it up,and it’s rock fu.king solid,
It’s aaaall good.
WOO YOO. With love Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:55 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

I can’t believe I am not smoking.No methadone,No
heroin
or cocaine. Nhaata.

WOW.
With love Jasen.

rock.  fucking solid brother.  keep that shit up man.

fukn a
n

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am free, Jasen at home
Date: December 15, 2004 at 1:01:11 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Julie,
Yes,I do feel amazing,I am amazing,…Julie.
It is beautiful, magical,the birds in the trees, they are singing so happily,
joyfully,…playfully watching me.

I am getting stronger,becoming better,”we can rebuild him,we have the technolgy,we can make him stronger faster
better,I feel like the 6 million dollar man,they have almost finished rebuilding me. …….:)
With love, Jasen smiling.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 4:29 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Hey Julie,
Nice to hear from you.
Day 21,feeling (was feeling very anxious) as I ran out of fibroplex
Which is a magnesium compound (basically).
Sister sent some got it today,now tolerable.

Legs still not firmly grounded,still feel as if the marrow in my legs is
Not there,hollow feeling.But slowly filling. Restless and home sick.
I am feeling a lot better though I must say.

Tommorow I go to Amsterdam city and I will stay there for 4 days until the
12th then yee ha HOME.Mmmmm I suppose it is my last night here.

Sara is great,it is as if I was doing this at mums place.You are looked
after quite well,and she knows how to dose. I tell you,The cannabis tea,
Cookies and mushrooms helped more than I would have ever thought. helped
tremendously.I was quite unsettled about tripping whilst hangingout,but it
isn’t really tripping,its mushrooms as they were created.

All legal here in Amsterdam,people are allowed to use cannabis for pain
relief or fun.You can legally buy mushrooms in a coffee shop.

I tell you what, I miss company,looking forward to chatting with the girls
and guys in these coffee shops,do you know they even have a hash museum.

How are you feeling now Julie? How many days has it been?
How are you feeling Randy and how many days,where’s sean gone?

Still a bit spacy in the head energy slowly building.If I get to bored and
anxious I just drink some cannabis tea,…….ahh, allright,smoke a joint
and listen to U2,pinkfloyd,and ELO,wish I had brought more cd’s.

Lower back still achey,restless.My mind is becoming clearer.I do feel like a
ciggy now and again,though I am a strong person,I just say,’no
thanks”.Well,…
Not quite that easy.

Oh,yea,I got fire burning in me again,and it feels great.It’s like,….WOW.
A lot of exhausted crying,but really good stuff. I now know for sure,my
brother is ok.It’s almost like I spoke to him but I canot remember what was
said,it was like he was really happy with me lots of love pouring from
him,smiling,just beautiful. We were also the best of mates,confidants.
I was also shown some parts of my life where something hurt me without me
consciously knowing.Then I would cry the blockage out.

WOW we are sensitive beings.

I got spunk in my veins again,like I did at 15 (almost).
I re read the last sentence and think,wow you were just a baby a kid.
Now that kid is free,and I can do anything.

With love Jasen,….smiling.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Verzonden: dinsdag 7 december 2004 17:28
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] I am free free Jasen at Sara’s

Jasen,

You sound so amazing!!!!  I am so happy for you….

Drop me a line…

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page  Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo
Date: December 15, 2004 at 12:25:44 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You make me laugh Randy.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 15, 2004 at 12:12:38 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Randy,
Do you think we should turn the volume up do you mate?
Listening to supertramp,a little uncomfortable now and again,
but I am so high on life and the feeling of freedom,that I can handle
the back pain,stretchy feeling,restlessness and boredom.

I realised why I get bored,because I simply don’t have the energy to do anything..
Huh,I am so happy,anyone thinking of doing it,just do it. I was really scared
and I don’t scare easy,actually I was terrified,untill I took it,then realised, it was beautiful.
With love, Jasen.
—– Original Message —–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:53 AM
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston

I’m too fried for this. YEAAAAAAAAAA      I tried it again, I hope it works. I used to read it all the time when I was in the Catskills at my Mamma’s. The computer and these lists have saved me time and again. Entertained me too. Life ROCKS. Lets make it louder.    Randy

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 9:46:26 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Hannah,
Gee girl, been having a tough time the last month.

You are carrying on like every one else would. If I was you,with the same situation,the same upbringing
had the same events,I would be doing what you are doing and feeling what you are feeling,you are no different.

You are gorgeous,you just can’t see it at the moment,most of us can.

Breaking up is very hard I know I have been through a few.Broken hearted thinking I would not recover only
to find a deeper love later and again and again.

Christmas eve baby,I too was born on Christmas,and my family used to celebrate it Christmas eve.
Hey Hannah,…guess what,we know what your like and we love you,I know there is more than me.

People that have not used,well,..most anyway do not and cannot understand,they think it is simply a choice.
I went out with a girl that I thought was just it,she was straight,I was on done,well…..when I say straight,she would have no
problem polishing off a bottle or two of wine every day for a month or two.Anyway,she pushed me hard to come  off methadone,
as if I wasn’t already trying,so I tried faster.

At the time I met her I was great,had stopped using and was reducing off methadone,I looked good and was getting fit and trim.
Well,…that soon tumbled.The pressure to come off was intense,I wasn’t only doing it for me now but for her.This put a lot of pressure on me.
We were also running a business at the time.I could see that she was disappointed in me for not going faster,so I would,then I broke
and used,then used a little more and kept doing this for a few weeks until she noticed something up.

She put it to me and said,”are you using”? I told her the truth,but….some people cannot handle the truth,she reacted,dramatically,
getting very depressed,she just was unable to understand I now understand that.We got through that one.When we first met she did not
know I was on methadone or had used,she was head over heals and so was I.After a couple of months of disappearing in the mornings
(to get my dose) she got suspicious,she asked me and I had to tell her whole attitude changed.I said to her,”you have known me for two months
and loved me,I am the same man and will only get better.

She couldn’t get passed that I was on the methadone,it shocked her.Anyway we stayed together for 15 months and broke up,she gave me an ultimatum
and we split. Very painful,but,…I realise now it was a very unhealthy relationship for me.Someone that has not experienced chemical addiction has
no way of knowing how powerful it is.

You do know of course,when you are ready,you are only an hour or two flight from Sara’s
I am starting to ache,have to go finish later.
Remember,you are beautiful.

With love, Jasen.

From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 5:14 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen.Hey Lee.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:26:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Lee,

I was not referring to anyone in particular.
After reading my own post of some days ago,I thought to myself, If I had done Ibogaine and read
my post I would think ,”That is pretty arrogant”

I got a very strong message and simply wrote what was given to me by ………
I knew that I would upset some people.As if I had taken Ibogaine and heard someone say,
“You have to take Iboga to heal completely”,I would think,…You arrogant pri.k. I added a spark,..a thought,
a maybe possibility.

Is there an energy we cannot measure yet?,..a future science?,do we know all there is to know?,have
we reached the panicle of science?,…of course not,this is not possible,there is always more to
learn, more to do,we can never finish knowing,exploring,what else have the other alkaloids to offer,
that we cannot,or have not measured yet,or simply have not yet reached.

If it were not for Ibogaine,I would still be on Methadone and else.It was because of Ibogaine I found Sara.
I just simply prefer the whole. I have the upmost respect for science and what it has given us.

I would be happier if natural science was given more credit,however it is not profitable or as profitable
for the pharmaceutical companies and I believe it is because of this that natural science has been dampened,
it is not sparking like todays science,it has been dampened by the dollar. Don’t get me wrong,I love money
and science.

Because science cannot prove something does not mean it does not exist.

If it were not for science, Howard Lotsof could not have brought this cure to the world in realisation,as he could
not have been given the powder.If I understand correctly.

If it were not for science,Martiez could not have given us the extract.

If it were not for science Patrick would not have given the world this invaluable list.
If it were not for Ibogaine many people on this list would still be under the chains of addiction.

Ibogaine is  and was a necessary part of this healing,I am simply saying,there is much more we simply
cannot know yet.

If I could not have taken Iboga,I would have taken Ibogaine.However I was unsighted with, they both take you to,
tune you into, a higher consciousness,however with the whole plant you are more protected by what comes in ,what influences you
what you get,what you see and what happens.

It is like the medicine man is there to heal you by himself without the tribe with Ibogaine,with Iboga,the medicine man has more
help and is more able to protect you.Give you the whole treatment.

Thankyou for your email with your thoughts.Please understand where I am coming from.

With love, Jasen.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 9:55 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen

Hi Jasen,

I am not sure who you are refering to when you say you may have put some noses out of joint?

The only post I remember where you were emphatic is your belief in the full alkaloid use of eboga. I did not respond as I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. But that does not mean I agree with all opinions posted.

I once held the same opinion on the extract but now look on the full alkaloid dose as something one can do if they chose but not necessarily the best option. However, in time I would like to see the other alkaloids properly evaluated.

I made no comment at the time on your post as I myself have taken the extract on at least 3 occasions and had the same view initially. But my views have now changed for various reasons.

1. After 6 years of continual and intense use with the HCL not once has this been indicated to me by my guides i.e. that one should use the extract. Yet, they push me on to make eboga better known and ultimately better available.
2. The HCl is easier to distribute and calibrate for what I am trying to do.
3. I have journeyed deeply with eboga in the HCL form and have dealt with a mountain of issues which perhaps some can only imagine.
4. After the second use of the extract I found it less reliable in its action.
5. The spirit of eboga is not the actual chemicals themselves. They simply open the body to its presence. The spirit of eboga has been very much present in my sessions and very powerfully too. It didn’t half appear or half heal. It fully appeared and it fully healed – thanks Eboga!
6. The other alkaloids are interesting to study in what they may have to offer in terms of making the experience less intense initially (perhaps also added features or a difference in style) but at a later stage in use of the HCL I have noted practically every kind of curative experience possible as well as the smooth effects I encountered in my first use of the eboga extract.
7. The idea that one must hold to the whole plant is a purist idea which pays more respect to the chemicals in the plant than it does to the spirit of eboga which functions perfectly well and more predicatably imo. It also smacks of a reactionary view on science. I am also a scientist and see no contradiction between my respect for science and my spirituality.
8. In order for eboga to be accepted in the world community it needs to be rigorously tested. HCL has been but the extract not. As Howard pointed out there is one cause of death in the UK from a male some time after taking the extract and it has never been explained. The point is there are no studies on the extract and no scientific knowledge forthcoming from the person who appears to be the source of its origin.
9. While I feel ok to recommend people to work with Sara and the extract (given that their other options are somewhat bleak) I do have some concerns for private use and its use in general due to the lack of scientific scrutiny of its full contents and their effects.
10. I am happy for your success but don’t let that make you prejudiced against what you have not used and has worked powerfully. That is why I keep my reservations on the extract low key.

Frankly if the spirit of eboga came through eating a Kellogs cardboard box (without any physical side effects – more nourishing btw than the contents), I would do it and I don’t think the spirit of eboga would give a shit(e) either – full respect to the eboga spirit intended -amen.

Those are just a few thoughts on the subject. For me the issue is not about the extract or the HCL. The issue is the intention to succeed and to follow through with the work, as well as the connection one makes with the eboga spirt in whose debt I will always remain and whose healing powers I will do my best to document and pass on.

The politicisation of eboga is a bad idea. Let’s stick with the healing and the spirituality.

So to use your own words and with the utmost of respect: If this post puts peoples noses out of joint, deal with it.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 2:18:34 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah, my experience is that the more you can sit with the bad
feelings, the more you will find that you can understand them and
take them in stride. It may only be a little bit here and there at
first, but so far this has been the only way out for me (of a
different trap than addiction). It helps to have people to lean on,
like a therapist or friends. They will reflect back to you what a
special, articulate person you are even if you may feel the
opposite. And deep within you is a healing force that you can draw
on to fight the good fight.

Maybe herbs can be useful to calm down without deadening your
feelings so much?

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 08:59:56 -0800 Hannah Clay
<hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your wonderful notes-each one helped me in a
different way.  You are all wonderful people and I’m very lucky to

have you.  I am trying to just function but its not really
happening.

I don’t know what to think of anything-I keep telling myself that
I have to not let this get me down and I have to grab my
opportunities else it’ll always be the same..  But I’m just so
unhappy.  He came over last night and we rowed-I was just hurting
so bad and he said some bad stuff and now I feel even worse.  On
one hand I want to be really nice to him and look like I’m coping
but on the other I feel so raw and hurt and desperate.  I’m
starting to think I was blind all along.

I guess it will get easier and I am trying.  I see a psychiatrist
next week but I saw him once before n he was crap.

Half the time I can’t stop shaking and all I can think is I need a

hit cuz I daren’t think of anything else.  I’m scared I’m having a

nervous breakdown.  I’m trying to like me but its hard when I hate

myself for driving him away somehow.  I cry and can’t eat.

Hell either it’ll get better or it’ll finish me off!  I don’t want

H but its all ive got right now.  I’m scoring for this lass else I

wouldn’t be doing it at all cuz i can’t afford it myself.

I gave my dog Shiva lots of love today.  Thanks again everyone,
gee now I’m crying again.  I will write again when its something
productive.

I hate myself cuz I hate depressed people who whine and that’s
exactly what I am.

My dealer just rang so I’ve gotta sort this lass out.  Dunno why I

bother-the gears so crap I don’t feel it anyway-the madness of it
all!

Lots of love to you all,
I think I’m turning hysterical; 😉

Hannah xxx

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Beautiful Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:45:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry you’re blue, dear heart. Broken hearts suck.
Reading your post helped remind me of a whole slew of
them, and how desperate it all seems while you are in
the throes of it.  No need to feel bad about feeling
bad – it’s a loss and natural to have a grieving
process for that.  Everyone says time heals for a
reason, but of course that’s little consolation in the
midst of it.  How about blasting your favorite
inspiring “love yourself” song over the stereo —
very, very loud, and repeat as necessary? Two that
come to mind are Gloria Gaynor, “I will Survive” or
Desiree’s “You Gotta Be.”

Hippie hugs of happy hope, Rachel the name changed

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:25:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi hannah

Cant you go to the docs and get something to take the edge off??

love donnax

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:17:28 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Run Drugs Out of Town Run <rundrugsoutoftownrun@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] spiders on drugs- w/photos
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:14:31 PM EST
To: drugwar@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

Great pictures!  The one that amazed me most was probably the most disorganized web of all done under the influence of caffeine.

Those who worry most about kids and drugs don’t think twice about a super sized Coke. . . .

Bill

Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
They seem to do best on peyote/mescaline than on any of the other drugs
given them and worst on caffine and chloral hydrat, if the photos at this
site are any indication. This is interesting to me, considering the last
line of this excerpt below, concerning “most toxic chemicals” and such.
Peace,
Preston
—–

http://www.missblackwidow.com/drugs.html

Results of experiments with Spiders and Drugs
Scientists at the United States National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA) have turned their attention from the mysteries of the
cosmos to a more esoteric area of research: what happens when you get a
spider stoned.
Their experiments have shown that common house spiders spin their webs in
different ways according to the psychotropic drug they have been given.
Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at spinning webs but appeared to
lose concentration about half-way through. Those on Benzedrine – “speed” –
spin their webs “with great gusto, but apparently without much planning
leaving large holes”, according to New Scientist magazine.
Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed by Britons in soft drinks,
tea and coffee, makes spiders incapable of spinning anything better than a
few threads strung together at random. On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of
sleeping pills, spiders “drop off before they even get started”.
Nasa scientists believe the research demonstrates that web-spinning spiders
can be used to test drugs because the more toxic the chemical, the more
deformed was the web.
snip-

more text and photos at above URL

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Dr. Bill Gallagher, DC
Executive Director
Run Drugs Out of Town Run, Inc.
PO Box 25152
Scottsdale, AZ 85255
480-513-3909
http://rundrugsoutoftownrun.org

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 14, 2004 at 12:19:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now I have three initiates who where addicted to benzo’s and Methadone/ Heroin, in my house doing well.

Each one got a different dosage,

Sara
Van: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 21:37
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction
Date: December 14, 2004 at 12:07:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Martee,

the same thing  can happen with computer addiction also with TV addiction .
pot will no kill your brother unless he doesn’t know what he is doing.

People are looking for comfort in all kinds of ways. pot is one of them.
The need of  comfort can be addictive even when the substance used isn’t.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: m.finman [mailto:mafinman@optonline.net]
Verzonden: dinsdag 14 december 2004 16:11
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Hi sara,
Maybe pot is technically not addictive, however the same emotional
mental stuff that drive one with addictive issues, if pot is their drug of
choice, they’re doing the same dance as junkies and such.  I’ve seen it in
my brother.
martee
—– Original Message —–
From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

You heal people with your raw honesty Preston.
Both you and Sara are healing people.
—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Sorry about that Preston,

“plus is safer and less addictive”.that why…

It is not less addictive but non- addictive.
It is proven not to be addictive.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 15:30
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

I’m not sure who you are responding to Sara, and I think that once again
that language barrier thing has confused the message I wrote.
My described turmoil hasn’t anything to do with my or anyone else’s
cannabis use. My initial problem in this note was with my use and
addiction
to cigarettes, then I moved on to my serious, severe current, reoccuring
issue with banging my drugs again, not to be too open about it on a
public
list or anything.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

“What is happening is that the government is using a
condition they created out of thin air, non-existent,
called “addiction”, to justify its fascistic
prohibitionist actions to the world in an attempt to
demonize and stigmatise cannabis consumers.  Ask your
neighborhood fascist what the “symptoms” of addiction
are.  He either won’t be able to tell you, or he’ll
tell you some nonesense which is a blow by blow
repetition of prohibitionist propaganda statements
found on their advertising.  This is to scare ignorant
non-consumers of cannabis into supporting the
fascistic and illegal crushing of democratic rights of
cannabis consumers.
You know damned well that not using cannabis has
no “withdrawal” symptoms.  Its no different from
stopping the consumption of ice cream, or broccoli, or
any other food, except you are not getting a buzz,
which people who DO know about cannabis know full well
is just harmless fun, and hurts nobody.
So stop playing the innocent.  Those folks you
complain about are trying to murder and torture you
for purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with
your health, safety, welfare, or anyone else’s.  Quit
playing their game, and get on with the reality of
cannabis consumption and the law.  We are all being
preyed on by evil fascist murderers, and we need to
start defending ourselves.”

From my friend…

Greetings crookedeye,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 4:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

Thanks for the suggestion, but being a fond lover of smoking herb with
or
without cigarettes, and having actually tried that before to no avail,
I’m
afraid that ain’t gonna cut it either.
I’ve also tried substuting clove cigs for tobacco, but that really,
really
didn’t cut it either.
It’s been quite some time I’ve been discussing this here, and it sounds
the
same as always, like I’m a weak ass git who can’t find self-control.
Sorry, I’m feeling a bit off-balance and angry at myself for this and
that reason. I can’t seem to find it in myself to open up much about it
(having tried a number of time to do so here but ending up deleting the
message before hitting send), finding myself embarrassed and hateful and
sad, but this is about as far as I feel like taking it publicly. Suffice
it
to say, I’m going to take ibogaine again at some point, as I believe
I’ve
recently noted, but wonder- will this, as with every other freakin’
fucking
“treatment” I’ve ever tried turn into one of these stupid, “oh well,
nuther
failed effort” things? Am I weak? Or am I simply supposed to be taking
my
drugs in the most effective manner possible and should just tell the
rest
of

the world to fuck the hell off? I mean, I seem to be doing fairly well
for
the most part, other than for this irritating, complicating love of drug
effects, foreign molecules, and other socially unacceptable things and
behaviors. And even with those I’m doing fairly well, besides having to
deal

with the complications of trying to do my substances in the way I find
most
effective without feeling too guilty and fucked up about it- and worst
of
all, finding myself hiding it from the people I care most about in the
entire world because, well, most of you (with some possible exceptions
who
will remain unnamed by me for now) understand what I’m talking about and
where I’m coming from.
Anyway, love to you all.
(How can life suck so bad at the same time things are going so fucking
well?)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

I found that when I get the urge to smoke a cig, I just fire up some
ganja
instead and it relieves the urge, plus is safer and less addictive,
physically.  I only want a cigarette when I don’t have herb to smoke.
Maybe herb could help…

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From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:58:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,

So far, I have agreed with what everyone has said on
the list RE: your situation…Please take care of
yourself…email me offlist if you want to chat..

love Julie

__________________________________
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Read only the mail you want – Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Ot Re: Hannah
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:59:56 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your wonderful notes-each one helped me in a different way.  You are all wonderful people and I’m very lucky to have you.  I am trying to just function but its not really happening.

I don’t know what to think of anything-I keep telling myself that I have to not let this get me down and I have to grab my opportunities else it’ll always be the same..  But I’m just so unhappy.  He came over last night and we rowed-I was just hurting so bad and he said some bad stuff and now I feel even worse.  On one hand I want to be really nice to him and look like I’m coping but on the other I feel so raw and hurt and desperate.  I’m starting to think I was blind all along.

I guess it will get easier and I am trying.  I see a psychiatrist next week but I saw him once before n he was crap.

Half the time I can’t stop shaking and all I can think is I need a hit cuz I daren’t think of anything else.  I’m scared I’m having a nervous breakdown.  I’m trying to like me but its hard when I hate myself for driving him away somehow.  I cry and can’t eat.

Hell either it’ll get better or it’ll finish me off!  I don’t want H but its all ive got right now.  I’m scoring for this lass else I wouldn’t be doing it at all cuz i can’t afford it myself.

I gave my dog Shiva lots of love today.  Thanks again everyone,  gee now I’m crying again.  I will write again when its something productive.

I hate myself cuz I hate depressed people who whine and that’s exactly what I am.

My dealer just rang so I’ve gotta sort this lass out.  Dunno why I bother-the gears so crap I don’t feel it anyway-the madness of it all!

Lots of love to you all,
I think I’m turning hysterical; 😉

Hannah xxx

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:16:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Howard,

I realised you were contributing your thoughts there. I just wanted to add my tuppence worth to clarify on my earlier post.
I knew there were some differences in batch but wasn’t sure what they were.
Its something I am going to start paying close attention to.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Hi Lee,

My message was not directed towards anyone in particular but, as the issue of
iboga/ibogaine comes up now and again I just thought I would provide my
personal comment. The important thing is to know the substance you are using. And
it goes further than the substance and must include the exact batch as there
may be differences from manufacturing to manufacturing of either HCl or total
alkaloids or root bark.

Howard

In a message dated 12/14/04 10:05:22 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

>I agree completely Howard.

>My only reason for posting was to highlight a number of issues and to leave
>the question open. I feel uneasy about the romantising of one form over
>another until enough evidence is available in the manner you mention and
>if possible scientifically also. A number of posts have come through somewhat
>prejudiced to the HCl form and that is in part why I posted.
>
>
>
>I also am concerned that some may simply look on the HCL form as being
>overly scientific when it has a lot of advantages in gaining acceptance
>as well as being highly effective.
>
>
>
>I have a lot of respect for Sara’s work. I don’t have the ongoing experience
>she has with the extract and by all accounts she is highly successful in
>the manner she uses it.
>
>
>
>I remain open to learning more.
>
>
>
>Lee
>
>
>
>
>
>HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:
>
>
>
>>Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that
>this
>
>>
>
>>shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what
>
>>makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think
>that
>
>the
>
>>loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do
>
>
>both and
>
>>make up my own mind. Randy
>
>
>
>All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value. You have to be familiar with
>
>
>whatever substance you use. If you are serious about learning of these
>
>
>substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses
>and at the
>
>same doses on multiple occasions. That gives you personal knowledge. If
>you
>
>want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge
>of
>
>iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.
>
>
>
>Howard
>
>

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] spiders on drugs- w/photos
Date: December 14, 2004 at 11:00:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

They seem to do best on peyote/mescaline than on any of the other drugs given them and worst on caffine and chloral hydrat, if the photos at this site are any indication. This is interesting to me, considering the last line of this excerpt below, concerning “most toxic chemicals” and such.
Peace,
Preston
—–

http://www.missblackwidow.com/drugs.html

Results of experiments with Spiders and Drugs
Scientists at the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) have turned their attention from the mysteries of the cosmos to a more esoteric area of research: what happens when you get a spider stoned.
Their experiments have shown that common house spiders spin their webs in different ways according to the psychotropic drug they have been given. Spiders on marijuana made a reasonable stab at spinning webs but appeared to lose concentration about half-way through. Those on Benzedrine – “speed” – spin their webs “with great gusto, but apparently without much planning leaving large holes”, according to New Scientist magazine.
Caffeine, one of the most common drugs consumed by Britons in soft drinks, tea and coffee, makes spiders incapable of spinning anything better than a few threads strung together at random. On chloral hydrat, an ingredient of sleeping pills, spiders “drop off before they even get started”.
Nasa scientists believe the research demonstrates that web-spinning spiders can be used to test drugs because the more toxic the chemical, the more deformed was the web.
snip-

more text and photos at above URL

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From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Structures of Psychedelic Experience, i.e. the N.A.C.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:54:05 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I also don’t think I’d  personally enjoy the
regimentation imposed by someone else on my trip, even

in a church setting, although I would like to try
participating in one of these services someday. That
would be interesting but for now I don’t think
I’d want to join any church no matter what their
sacrament- but never say never, right?

I didn’t think anyone was dissing native people.  I
thought the nuances to what limited legal standing the
N.A.C. has in the U.S. were being lost in the “they
should know better” assessment.

They institutionalized “the” church to adapt to the
requirements of colonial bureacracies of
eurocapitalist state formation.  And it is very much a
syncretic relgion – melding missionized beliefs with
both ancient tribal spirituality and refigured Peyote
suggestions appropriate to the new situation (I think
akin to how Lee talks about his Eboga guides
directions to his work.) But the ritualization and
structure of a meeting are what helps integrates the
experience of the Peyote eater into the larger
community.  See, for example, Stewart Brand’s
description in The Psychedelic Review No. 9 (1967)
which you can find in The Archives by scrolling down
from this link:

http://www.maps.org/psychedelicreview/

I’ve been thinking about this comparison between Iboga
and Peyote a lot, because I have friends who have been
cured of alcoholism by membership in the Church.  And
others who have relapsed despite being members of
“high” standing.  Its the analogy I use frequently in
trying to describe what is going on in Ibogaine world
to friends and family concerned about Jeff’s recovery
(and my sanity).  Perhaps that is overthinking, or
unnecessary rationalization, but it works for my
Being.

As for subtlety, I’m just trying to be clear that
there is a lot (a lot a lot!) of diversity of opinon
about who or what should benefit from the specific
path of legal protection won by that Church.  I think
the caution comes because of half-hearted efforts by
some psychedelic warriors to “glom onto” (by which I
mean piggyback and I wish I knew where the heck I got
the word “glom” into my vocabulary from!) precariously
protected Native rights that felt (and feels) to some
Native people as a form of spiritual colonialism.

Plenty of folks have far more tolerance for inclusive
communion than the party which joined the opposition
in this specific case. But the fact that some don’t
has legitimate and historically formed reasoning to be
found in the trails of broken treaties.

I sense there are some considerations to be made on
this power inequality when it comes to all tribal
survivance of Plant Medicines and Spirit in the modern
situation.  If that’s political, well, welcome to my
jungle.

love, Rachel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:47:16 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee,

My message was not directed towards anyone in particular but, as the issue of
iboga/ibogaine comes up now and again I just thought I would provide my
personal comment.  The important thing is to know the substance you are using.  And
it goes further than the substance and must include the exact batch as there
may be differences from manufacturing to manufacturing of either HCl or total
alkaloids or root bark.

Howard

In a message dated 12/14/04 10:05:22 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

I agree completely Howard.

My only reason for posting was to highlight a number of issues and to leave
the question open. I feel uneasy about the romantising of one form over
another until enough evidence is available in the manner you mention and
if possible scientifically also. A number of posts have come through somewhat
prejudiced to the HCl form and that is in part why I posted.

I also am concerned that some may simply look on the HCL form as being
overly scientific when it has a lot of advantages in gaining acceptance
as well as being highly effective.

I have a lot of respect for Sara’s work. I don’t have the ongoing experience
she has with the extract and by all accounts she is highly successful in
the manner she uses it.

I remain open to learning more.

Lee

HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that
this

shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what

makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think
that

the

loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do

both and

make up my own mind. Randy

All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value. You have to be familiar with

whatever substance you use. If you are serious about learning of these

substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses
and at the

same doses on multiple occasions. That gives you personal knowledge. If
you

want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge
of

iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.

Howard

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:11:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi sara,
Maybe pot is technically not addictive, however the same emotional mental stuff that drive one with addictive issues, if pot is their drug of choice, they’re doing the same dance as junkies and such.  I’ve seen it in my brother.
martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

You heal people with your raw honesty Preston.
Both you and Sara are healing people.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Sorry about that Preston,

“plus is safer and less addictive”.that why…

It is not less addictive but non- addictive.
It is proven not to be addictive.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 15:30
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

I’m not sure who you are responding to Sara, and I think that once again
that language barrier thing has confused the message I wrote.
My described turmoil hasn’t anything to do with my or anyone else’s
cannabis use. My initial problem in this note was with my use and addiction
to cigarettes, then I moved on to my serious, severe current, reoccuring
issue with banging my drugs again, not to be too open about it on a public
list or anything.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

“What is happening is that the government is using a
condition they created out of thin air, non-existent,
called “addiction”, to justify its fascistic
prohibitionist actions to the world in an attempt to
demonize and stigmatise cannabis consumers.  Ask your
neighborhood fascist what the “symptoms” of addiction
are.  He either won’t be able to tell you, or he’ll
tell you some nonesense which is a blow by blow
repetition of prohibitionist propaganda statements
found on their advertising.  This is to scare ignorant
non-consumers of cannabis into supporting the
fascistic and illegal crushing of democratic rights of
cannabis consumers.
You know damned well that not using cannabis has
no “withdrawal” symptoms.  Its no different from
stopping the consumption of ice cream, or broccoli, or
any other food, except you are not getting a buzz,
which people who DO know about cannabis know full well
is just harmless fun, and hurts nobody.
So stop playing the innocent.  Those folks you
complain about are trying to murder and torture you
for purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with
your health, safety, welfare, or anyone else’s.  Quit
playing their game, and get on with the reality of
cannabis consumption and the law.  We are all being
preyed on by evil fascist murderers, and we need to
start defending ourselves.”

From my friend…

Greetings crookedeye,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 4:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

Thanks for the suggestion, but being a fond lover of smoking herb with or
without cigarettes, and having actually tried that before to no avail, I’m
afraid that ain’t gonna cut it either.
I’ve also tried substuting clove cigs for tobacco, but that really, really
didn’t cut it either.
It’s been quite some time I’ve been discussing this here, and it sounds
the
same as always, like I’m a weak ass git who can’t find self-control.
Sorry, I’m feeling a bit off-balance and angry at myself for this and
that reason. I can’t seem to find it in myself to open up much about it
(having tried a number of time to do so here but ending up deleting the
message before hitting send), finding myself embarrassed and hateful and
sad, but this is about as far as I feel like taking it publicly. Suffice
it
to say, I’m going to take ibogaine again at some point, as I believe I’ve
recently noted, but wonder- will this, as with every other freakin’
fucking
“treatment” I’ve ever tried turn into one of these stupid, “oh well,
nuther
failed effort” things? Am I weak? Or am I simply supposed to be taking my
drugs in the most effective manner possible and should just tell the rest
of

the world to fuck the hell off? I mean, I seem to be doing fairly well for
the most part, other than for this irritating, complicating love of drug
effects, foreign molecules, and other socially unacceptable things and
behaviors. And even with those I’m doing fairly well, besides having to
deal

with the complications of trying to do my substances in the way I find
most
effective without feeling too guilty and fucked up about it- and worst of
all, finding myself hiding it from the people I care most about in the
entire world because, well, most of you (with some possible exceptions who
will remain unnamed by me for now) understand what I’m talking about and
where I’m coming from.
Anyway, love to you all.
(How can life suck so bad at the same time things are going so fucking
well?)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

I found that when I get the urge to smoke a cig, I just fire up some ganja
instead and it relieves the urge, plus is safer and less addictive,
physically.  I only want a cigarette when I don’t have herb to smoke.
Maybe herb could help…

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 10:04:10 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I agree completely Howard.

My only reason for posting was to highlight a number of issues and to leave the question open. I feel uneasy about the romantising of one form over another until enough evidence is available in the manner you mention and if possible scientifically also. A number of posts have come through somewhat prejudiced to the HCl form and that is in part why I posted.

I also am concerned that some may simply look on the HCL form as being overly scientific when it has a lot of advantages in gaining acceptance as well as being highly effective.

I have a lot of respect for Sara’s work. I don’t have the ongoing experience she has with the extract and by all accounts she is highly successful in the manner she uses it.

I remain open to learning more.

Lee
HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

>Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that this
>
>shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what
>makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think that
the
>loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do
both and
>make up my own mind. Randy

All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value. You have to be familiar with
whatever substance you use. If you are serious about learning of these
substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses and at the
same doses on multiple occasions. That gives you personal knowledge. If you
want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge of
iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.

Howard

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 9:40:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/14/04 8:35:13 AM, BiscuitBoy714@aol.com writes:

Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that this

shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what
makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think that
the
loving  treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do
both and
make up my own mind.                Randy

All forms of iboga/ibogaine have their value.  You have to be familiar with
whatever substance you use.  If you are serious about learning of these
substances then you must familiarize yourself with them at various doses and at the
same doses on multiple occasions.  That gives you personal knowledge.  If you
want to be a provider/shaman/doctor/nganga then you must gain knowledge of
iboga/ibogaine in others and do so with an open mind.

Howard

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (kinda ot) Re: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church
Date: December 14, 2004 at 9:17:46 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy wrote >Rachel, now you have done it. You went and talked about Native Americans rights. I think they have been persecuted worse than any other country or group of people the US has ever come in contact with.<

I’ve already deleted Rachel’s note by accident, so I don’t remember what she said completely, but I hope it’s understood I’m not ragging on Native Americans because they’re Native Americans, I’m ragging on anyone at all who engages in prejudice no matter what they use to justify it.
WIth this in mind, for those who’d like some more info on what’s been done to the Native residents of this land, here’s an older essay I published at disinfo.com. This is followed by a whole bunch of links at this URL.
Enjoy.
Peace and love,
Preston
—–

http://www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id257/pg1/

the first native americans are still here
by Preston Peet (ptpeet@nyc.rr.com) – October 18, 2000

In the United States of America there are people who are not often mentioned when the press talks of genocide. These people were not mentioned when the Kosovar Albanians were being expelled from their homes by Serbs, and by NATO bombs. When the pundits speak of the treatment of civilian Chechens by Russian military forces, these people are never remembered. Who remembers the American Natives, the indigenous people of North America, who now make up one percent of the US population? If the US violates its own internal treaties, what does this say to the rest of the world?
The destruction of the indigenous peoples on these shores was near total. For those few that remained, life became a struggle merely to survive. Gambling and Oil have helped some tribes ‘cash in’ on being Indian, but what about the rest? According to information at ‘Treaty Productions’ Homepage, as of 1998, 335 000 Native Americans were homeless, (29 percent), 678 500 lived in substandard housing, (59 percent), 793 500 live in severe over-crowding, (69 percent). Some 371 treaties were signed between the US, and the Native American nations. Not only has the US violated every single one of these treaties, but they continue to violate them to this day!
According to the article ‘Covert War Against the Native Americans’ by Ward Churchill, “60 percent of all known US uranium reserves lie under Native American Reservation lands, and another 10 to 15 percent lie under contested treaty areas.” Nearly one third of all minable coal reserves lie under Native American reservations, jumping up to 50 percent if the contested treaty areas are included in the figures. 15 percent of the US reserves of natural gas lies under the reservations, and another 15 percent lies under the disputed treaty lands, and the same goes for oil. This is an intolerable situation for the US government. Therefore it has taken to continuing its long clandestine war against the American indigenous peoples.
Independent researcher Candy Hamilton compiled evidence, Churchill reports, that since the Wounded Knee event in 1973, on the Lakota Sioux reservation at least 342 ‘American Indian Movement’ (AIM) members and supporters have been assassinated by death squads aligned with and supported by the FBI. COINTELPRO operations were carried out against AIM, and other Native American movements, creating rifts among the Native activists, locking up or killing those who could not be shut up.
Dan Russell, in his incredible book ‘Drug War’ writes of how Native Americans were spoken of in terms of Americanization, “as though they had actually just come from India.” Russell recounts how Captain John Gregory Bourke, the US Cavalry officer who once forced the surrender of Geronimo, and who fought against Crazy Horse’s Sioux, and the Northern Cheyenne, wrote, “to improve the condition of the Indians as tribes is simply an impossibility . . .They must first be crushed by the overwhelming forces of the Government, whose civilizing influences can then hope to find a free, perhaps fruitful field of labor among the new generations, treated as individuals, but never as tribes.”
The attitude of treating Native Americans as sub-human, even having genocide preached and practiced upon them, has been exhibited by the least likely people, including even L. Frank Baum, author of ‘The Wonderful Wizard of Oz’. Baum twice demanded the complete extermination of the Sioux Nations in editorials he wrote in his newspaper in Aberdeen, South Dakota, between 1888, and 1891.
Take a minute the next time a politician promotes some ‘socially conscious’ program to help refugees across the sea. Think about who were here on these shores, and still remains, hidden behind disinformation, myths, and the reservation fences.
Lotsa links follow at the above URL just for a reminder.

—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church

Rachel, now you have done it. You went and talked about Native Americans rights. I think they have been persecuted worse than any other country or group of people the US has ever come in contact with.                Randy

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:13:49 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel, now you have done it. You went and talked about Native Americans rights. I think they have been persecuted worse than any other country or group of people the US has ever come in contact with.                Randy

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:08:59 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi jasen

Well done to you I think its fantastic you can achieve what ever you want

Love donnax

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:04:40 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Allison

Thank you for that last message at least i know there is hope for me and my partner as before i read your message i thought it would never work one off one on, You have done really well i so envy you but watch this space I WILL DO IT !!!  did you use ibogaine????

Love donnax

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 8:04:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Iboga, Eboga, Meboga, Theyboga what does it matter? The point is that this shit works like nothing else. I think that the provider is half of what makes this work. How could anyone come away from Sara’s and not think that the loving treatment she provides is not the best way to go? I’d like to do both and make up my own mind.                Randy
From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 6:55:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

I am not sure who you are refering to when you say you may have put some noses out of joint?

The only post I remember where you were emphatic is your belief in the full alkaloid use of eboga. I did not respond as I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. But that does not mean I agree with all opinions posted.

I once held the same opinion on the extract but now look on the full alkaloid dose as something one can do if they chose but not necessarily the best option. However, in time I would like to see the other alkaloids properly evaluated.

I made no comment at the time on your post as I myself have taken the extract on at least 3 occasions and had the same view initially. But my views have now changed for various reasons.

1. After 6 years of continual and intense use with the HCL not once has this been indicated to me by my guides i.e. that one should use the extract. Yet, they push me on to make eboga better known and ultimately better available.
2. The HCl is easier to distribute and calibrate for what I am trying to do.
3. I have journeyed deeply with eboga in the HCL form and have dealt with a mountain of issues which perhaps some can only imagine.
4. After the second use of the extract I found it less reliable in its action.
5. The spirit of eboga is not the actual chemicals themselves. They simply open the body to its presence. The spirit of eboga has been very much present in my sessions and very powerfully too. It didn’t half appear or half heal. It fully appeared and it fully healed – thanks Eboga!
6. The other alkaloids are interesting to study in what they may have to offer in terms of making the experience less intense initially (perhaps also added features or a difference in style) but at a later stage in use of the HCL I have noted practically every kind of curative experience possible as well as the smooth effects I encountered in my first use of the eboga extract.
7. The idea that one must hold to the whole plant is a purist idea which pays more respect to the chemicals in the plant than it does to the spirit of eboga which functions perfectly well and more predicatably imo. It also smacks of a reactionary view on science. I am also a scientist and see no contradiction between my respect for science and my spirituality.
8. In order for eboga to be accepted in the world community it needs to be rigorously tested. HCL has been but the extract not. As Howard pointed out there is one cause of death in the UK from a male some time after taking the extract and it has never been explained. The point is there are no studies on the extract and no scientific knowledge forthcoming from the person who appears to be the source of its origin.
9. While I feel ok to recommend people to work with Sara and the extract (given that their other options are somewhat bleak) I do have some concerns for private use and its use in general due to the lack of scientific scrutiny of its full contents and their effects.
10. I am happy for your success but don’t let that make you prejudiced against what you have not used and has worked powerfully. That is why I keep my reservations on the extract low key.

Frankly if the spirit of eboga came through eating a Kellogs cardboard box (without any physical side effects – more nourishing btw than the contents), I would do it and I don’t think the spirit of eboga would give a shit(e) either – full respect to the eboga spirit intended -amen.

Those are just a few thoughts on the subject. For me the issue is not about the extract or the HCL. The issue is the intention to succeed and to follow through with the work, as well as the connection one makes with the eboga spirt in whose debt I will always remain and whose healing powers I will do my best to document and pass on.

The politicisation of eboga is a bad idea. Let’s stick with the healing and the spirituality.

So to use your own words and with the utmost of respect: If this post puts peoples noses out of joint, deal with it.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:58:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah

My heart goes out to you this is exactly what happened to me last xmas, Randy is right you need to look after yourself gear is not the answer it will just block it all out but then it comes back even worse

take care of you

Donna

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:40:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Jasen it is so good to see your post. I know exactly how you feel. Ibogaine is miracle medicine and the world must know about it and it’s up to us to let them know. I personally would do about anything (short of hurting someone) to get this done. Man, when you said that about the opium den I was right there with you, I could smell it. Well, maybe it was the White Willow wafting about the room, but I could smell something. I’m still sick but I know that now. (HeHe) Better sick or sick better or whatever, all I know is I am way cool with where I am and where I am going and I owe it to the underground and Ibogaine.(and Patrick and Dave and Howard and Frank and Sara and Mamma and Preston and Marc and Steve Anker and Sean and I want to thank the Academy for this Grammy,…..errr sorry)   It just struck me that I could REALLY live my life without being addicted if I so choose. I so choose. Good to see you back.                  Randy

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:07:23 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah,

I am sorry to hear of your situation. It sucks deeply.

The path to health and happiness is at times a deeply demanding one filled with a lot of sadness and lonliness. I am sorry that it has come now for you at this time.

Its definitely a wake up call.

You know what steps you need to take. My best advice to you is this: Begin to take them now before you have an even deeper crises. Don’t let a sudden let up (ie a period of calm) allow you to fall back on your old ways.

I will be thinking of you and sending some energy your way.

Love & Light

Lee

Hannah Clay <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 7:02:32 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah, my heart goes out to you because you sound a lot like me, but I have to ask the obvious. Do you think that you having your ex being there had anything to do with your boyfriend leaving? It’s hard for guys to admit that another guy is a threat to them. I think that most of us here just want you to get well no matter what. I wish you would start thinking like that. You can’t protect anyone else (except your dog) until you have protected yourself and how can you care for someone else when you don’t care for yourself? I know how your dog feels, I can’t stand to see a girl cry either. Hell, I can’t stand to see anyone cry. My cat Grady was so in tune to my emotions it was uncanny, I still grieve for him 10 years later. He got me through one of the toughest times in my life. His purring soothed my soul and I think he knew it. He sure did it all the time. Now I’m crying. Keep your chin up and keep posting and we’ll get through the holidays.             Randy       PS It sure seems like a good time to think about Ibogaine. Can you handle it?
From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:14:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Extract vs HCL: Jasen
Date: December 14, 2004 at 6:55:24 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jasen,

I am not sure who you are refering to when you say you may have put some noses out of joint?

The only post I remember where you were emphatic is your belief in the full alkaloid use of eboga. I did not respond as I believe we are all entitled to our opinions. But that does not mean I agree with all opinions posted.

I once held the same opinion on the extract but now look on the full alkaloid dose as something one can do if they chose but not necessarily the best option. However, in time I would like to see the other alkaloids properly evaluated.

I made no comment at the time on your post as I myself have taken the extract on at least 3 occasions and had the same view initially. But my views have now changed for various reasons.

1. After 6 years of continual and intense use with the HCL not once has this been indicated to me by my guides i.e. that one should use the extract. Yet, they push me on to make eboga better known and ultimately better available.
2. The HCl is easier to distribute and calibrate for what I am trying to do.
3. I have journeyed deeply with eboga in the HCL form and have dealt with a mountain of issues which perhaps some can only imagine.
4. After the second use of the extract I found it less reliable in its action.
5. The spirit of eboga is not the actual chemicals themselves. They simply open the body to its presence. The spirit of eboga has been very much present in my sessions and very powerfully too. It didn’t half appear or half heal. It fully appeared and it fully healed – thanks Eboga!
6. The other alkaloids are interesting to study in what they may have to offer in terms of making the experience less intense initially (perhaps also added features or a difference in style) but at a later stage in use of the HCL I have noted practically every kind of curative experience possible as well as the smooth effects I encountered in my first use of the eboga extract.
7. The idea that one must hold to the whole plant is a purist idea which pays more respect to the chemicals in the plant than it does to the spirit of eboga which functions perfectly well and more predicatably imo. It also smacks of a reactionary view on science. I am also a scientist and see no contradiction between my respect for science and my spirituality.
8. In order for eboga to be accepted in the world community it needs to be rigorously tested. HCL has been but the extract not. As Howard pointed out there is one cause of death in the UK from a male some time after taking the extract and it has never been explained. The point is there are no studies on the extract and no scientific knowledge forthcoming from the person who appears to be the source of its origin.
9. While I feel ok to recommend people to work with Sara and the extract (given that their other options are somewhat bleak) I do have some concerns for private use and its use in general due to the lack of scientific scrutiny of its full contents and their effects.
10. I am happy for your success but don’t let that make you prejudiced against what you have not used and has worked powerfully. That is why I keep my reservations on the extract low key.

Frankly if the spirit of eboga came through eating a Kellogs cardboard box (without any physical side effects – more nourishing btw than the contents), I would do it and I don’t think the spirit of eboga would give a shit(e) either – full respect to the eboga spirit intended -amen.

Those are just a few thoughts on the subject. For me the issue is not about the extract or the HCL. The issue is the intention to succeed and to follow through with the work, as well as the connection one makes with the eboga spirt in whose debt I will always remain and whose healing powers I will do my best to document and pass on.

The politicisation of eboga is a bad idea. Let’s stick with the healing and the spirituality.

So to use your own words and with the utmost of respect: If this post puts peoples noses out of joint, deal with it.

Love & Light

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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From: “Allison Senepart” <paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 14, 2004 at 5:31:42 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t give up too easily.  My partner and I had such a co-dependant relationship with using.  We blamed each other, life was shit, we ended up splitting up for 2 yrs but ended up back together and have finally sorted a lot of things out after 18 odd yrs of ups and downs.  A lot of downs and a few ups at the end.  He is on methadone maintenance at 85 a day and I haven’t had any methadone or used for the last couple of years which is a real achievement.  I can’t speak for anyone else but I just knew I had to take myself out of the whole circle of friends and everything else to survive cos otherwise I was just making myself sicker and sicker.  I had a really good friend that my daughter and I stayed with and for a while she cooked and helped me out and I’ve never forgotten that.  I know that if someone else needed it I would be glad to be able to do it for them as well.  Am sure other people have told you this but you have to look after yourself first and get some strength and then look forward.  Lots of best wishes and good luck.  Allison
PS:  Message for Kirsty in NZ if you are reading this.  I’ve been reading your mail.  I live in Wanaka and if you want to write to me on list I’ll be checking the mail or if theres anything I can do for you living sort of roundabouts you could always contact me at paradisepaint@callsouth.net.nz.  . .

——-Original Message——-

From: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Date: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 1:40:53 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] I am home,. Jasen.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 4:37:57 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

Hello dear list,
I am home..,sitting at my computer,listening to the cars(the band)
a candle burns beside me,it’s daylight,I don’t know why I just lit my second candle.
Cooking  organic  spelt spagetti,organic lamb mince with a organic sauce.Mmmm.

Join me.

Not much energy,but felt like I had to cook,….wholesome.
Day 28,residual withdrawel  0 to 12%  up and down .However I am on top of the world,I can achieve whatever I choose.
Remeber though,I was on methadone for 23 years,with maybe 5 year break as was using heroin,a lot of heroin,
I was first put on the program at age 15(Methadone program)Dealing heroin with a big habit at 15, first injecting at 14.
Thats why I am still not the best physically,if you do this from heroin,morphine,preferably opium ect,it will
be easier.Or if you have only been on the Methadone for a short while,Hey,..Even if you have been on the Methadone
for 20 30 or 40 years,it can be done. Look at Randy and I,and others,..20 years plus,We are doing it.We are….Awakening

I suggest you do a similar thing as Julie did,try to substitute Methadone for a shorter acting opiate,not antaganist,
just morphine,heroin,or ect.

I was going to go to an opium den in China and spend a month to 6 weeks smoking opium untill the bulk of the Methadone
was out of my system,then go to Sara’s. To much time away for me at the time.

In my previous postings I said some things that I felt I had to say,knowing full well ,that I would be putting noses out of joint,
this is not my intention, nor was it .I come from love,if you recoil at that,…ask yourself why.

The freedom I feel is glorious,even though I am still a little sick,it is a very different energy,I am simply unwell getting better.

I am free of ALL addiction,do you know how powerfull that is,…of course you do.

I was addicted to Methadone,Heroin,occasional cocaine use,nicotine(I have been buying ciggarettes since grade 5 (age 11).

I got into everything early as I was the youngest of 4 and wanted to be cool,…in the cool scene,you don’t realise
untill much later just how UNcool it is. Anyway,..Methadone ,nicotine,sugar(a biggie for me),heroin and occasional cocaine.
ALL GONE. I still cannot grip the enormitiy of this.In less than 30 days.

I feel as if it will take me 40 days and nights,tempted by the devil ,so to say.
I say devil as in ,”A thing that is not working for you or for your highest good.”

Back starting to ache a bit,still feeling a bit Argghhh,but hey, what do you expect?

Thankyou so much,so so much to everyones support and love,it really does make a difference.Understanding,we all want to be understood.
I will reply to every email.
I have 2300 emails and more to look at,not personal emails,..list emails mainly,and my work.

Listening to the “police singing ‘ “Roxanne”,brings back memories,releasing emotions. I had a girlfriend who’s name was Roxanne,when I was 15,she was a working girl,divorced with 2 children,her husband had the children,we went out for 2 and a half years,she was 27. She overdosed when I was 18,we were not together at the time.We had split approx a year previously.

I am blessed to have a sister who is a naturopath and a very good one at that.

I have so much to tell,but not the mental energy to do so,emails getting a bit long anyway.

Will continue to write on the chance it helps others.
Iboga/Ibogaine is the baptising. Personally I would take the whole 20 alkaloids in Iboga,If Iboga was not there I would take Ibogaine.

My soul is starting to SHINE through my eyes,it’;s life.
With love  Smiles Jasen.

From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 2:02:43 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

In a message dated 11/27/04 6:03:11 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Just fuc ing boring.

Hi Jasen,

I can share some thoughts that is all.  What is boring.  Go to the center of
boring and tell us what it is.  Then tell us what is not boring?  I might be
able to answer these questions but then they would be my answers.

Howard

***What more can I ask,Howard ,I feel you are a man among men,
There is much greatness on this list,it’s igniting,with love.
/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: Spam Alert: RE: [Ibogaine] Jasen at Sara’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:52:16 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Cap,
Most definatley opium(raw).If possible.
I said heroin is natural in a recent posting,I should have
said Opium. As mother earth intended it.
I will write more when more mental energy.
With love Jasen(by the way ,…really big smiles now days,I,m so excited.
Do it.
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 10:20 PM
Subject: Spam Alert: RE: [Ibogaine] Jasen at Sara’s

I’m wondering then about switching to poppy seed a week or two before Iboga…..although that still leaves the question of pesticides. Cannot get heroin here, the most pure form would be opium from the plant itself…..but we turn that with AA……..
What would you others think would be the most natural substance to use before the Iboga experience?
(minus the 24-48 hour without)
Thanks!
From: Sara Glatt [mailto:sara119@xs4all.nl] 
Sent: Saturday, 27 November 2004 11:40 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Jasen at Sara’s

Hey guys,
I am still very exausted,it is day 12.
I now understand why when this Eboga is done,people don’t write much. They simply don’t have the energy.
Eboga seems to fine tune the body,to allow the body to vibrate to the same frequency as the Natural medicine,
Being Eboga.

I have been reborn,I am now all man. The eboga saves lost souls(addicted bodies) whethter the addiction is smoking,alchohol,
Drugs. Julie I miss you, we have a heartfelt connection.

Preston,for some reason,I am missing you and your misses,also Sean,and Randy.

I am so spritualy exausted.

I suggest to any one that can to go from heroin to eboga. Methadone is to much on the body,
It causes blockages in energy which in return makes you sick,Methadone is NOT natural. Heroin is.
To save the tortured souls,our souls,we need to put people on a heroin program then to eboga.

This has been 23 years for me,since I was 15,I am now 38.

Please write to me forward Sara ‘s email (TO JASEN).

I am so fuc ing bored. Julie write to me I need company,address to Sara’s.

Eboga causes you to withdraw on four plains(on four frequencies that tunes into our god self.
God save the world.

The relevations have become,rise up and claim whats yours.

You are puuuuure love you are of god.
Smiling still,Jasen.

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:45:28 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok cool, can someone fast post (airmail) Sara over here right away please??
Oh, and she must come cheap!! Lol
Ahhhhhh well, maybe I’ll win the lottery in the next few months ay?  (Shit,
I guess I’d better play it first lol)
U go Jasen~!
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: Jasen Chamoun [mailto:JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 7:29 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

It is very reliable with Sara.
Sara seems to be in tune with the Iboga and the patient.
If you put your trust in Sara you will succeed…..
—– Original Message —–
From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Howard,
Is the Indra product reliable? Otherwise, where would one find the HCL?
Thanking you…

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2004 3:58 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

For list information, Jasen is talking about doses of ibogaine extract
somewhat similar to the indra product and not ibogaine HCl.  It also
appears
to me
that Sara is the only provider who approaches the use of iboga/ibogaine
with
no
set time limitations to patient care on a continuous dose regimen basis.
Those of you who provide ibogaine know who overwhelming the time issue can
be.
It is too bad that some government will not provide a medical facility and
support so ibogaine providers from around the world could demonstrate
their
particular techniques and dose regimens for comparative evaluation and
mutual
education.

Howard

In a message dated 11/22/04 4:16:55 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Dear group.
Hey Guys,

I am here at Sara’s place and it is day 8.

Wonderful experience.To think that I actually almost turned back and went
home.
When I first came over(across the other side of the WORLD),I started to
panic,..Sh t,
This is it”,,I DON’T KNOW IF I can do this.

But Sara was wonderful,I was put at ease,took the Iboga,first dose 1 gram.
A couple of hours later,another 1.8,then a little after that ,say,..2 to
3
hours later
5 grams.Then it really booted in.

I felt as if I was being wobbled, like I had 7 or 8 tribes men, either
side
of me,holding me on a rug,
,they were standing and the rug was a few feet of the floor and they were
wobbling me.

Vibrated,..as if my cells were vibrating with the melody of the
wobbling,roking,uhmmmm  uhmmmmm.

No vomiting. No nausea,…

Risdules,yes  but I tell you ,..NO ORBLEM.up to 15%,but it was not the
same
sick energy,

It seems to flow,up down,up down,relaxed

EGO,is not a,dirty word.
Ego is not dirty   dirty word.

WoW you really have to let it Go.
I tell you what?my ego was very strong.

I feel mentally exhausted.

I will right again. Saras cooking breakfeast for me,
Downstairsgo
um, Gotta go.

Smiles Jasen         🙂

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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:28:54 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It is very reliable with Sara.
Sara seems to be in tune with the Iboga and the patient.
If you put your trust in Sara you will succeed…..
—– Original Message —– From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Hi Howard,
Is the Indra product reliable? Otherwise, where would one find the HCL?
Thanking you…

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 23 November 2004 3:58 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

For list information, Jasen is talking about doses of ibogaine extract
somewhat similar to the indra product and not ibogaine HCl.  It also appears
to me
that Sara is the only provider who approaches the use of iboga/ibogaine with
no
set time limitations to patient care on a continuous dose regimen basis.
Those of you who provide ibogaine know who overwhelming the time issue can
be.
It is too bad that some government will not provide a medical facility and
support so ibogaine providers from around the world could demonstrate their
particular techniques and dose regimens for comparative evaluation and
mutual
education.

Howard

In a message dated 11/22/04 4:16:55 AM, sara119@xs4all.nl writes:

Dear group.
Hey Guys,

I am here at Sara’s place and it is day 8.

Wonderful experience.To think that I actually almost turned back and went
home.
When I first came over(across the other side of the WORLD),I started to
panic,..Sh t,
This is it”,,I DON’T KNOW IF I can do this.

But Sara was wonderful,I was put at ease,took the Iboga,first dose 1 gram.
A couple of hours later,another 1.8,then a little after that ,say,..2 to
3
hours later
5 grams.Then it really booted in.

I felt as if I was being wobbled, like I had 7 or 8 tribes men, either
side
of me,holding me on a rug,
,they were standing and the rug was a few feet of the floor and they were
wobbling me.

Vibrated,..as if my cells were vibrating with the melody of the
wobbling,roking,uhmmmm  uhmmmmm.

No vomiting. No nausea,…

Risdules,yes  but I tell you ,..NO ORBLEM.up to 15%,but it was not the
same
sick energy,

It seems to flow,up down,up down,relaxed

EGO,is not a,dirty word.
Ego is not dirty   dirty word.

WoW you really have to let it Go.
I tell you what?my ego was very strong.

I feel mentally exhausted.

I will right again. Saras cooking breakfeast for me,
Downstairsgo
um, Gotta go.

Smiles Jasen         🙂

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:23:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

already absorbed.
—– Original Message —– From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

love your way Jasen.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:16 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re;JASEN AT SARA’S PLACE.

Dear group.
Hey Guys,

I am here at Sara’s place and it is day 8.

Wonderful experience.To think that I actually almost turned back and went home.
When I first came over(across the other side of the WORLD),I started to panic,..Sh t,
This is it”,,I DON’T KNOW IF I can do this.

But Sara was wonderful,I was put at ease,took the Iboga,first dose 1 gram.
A couple of hours later,another 1.8,then a little after that ,say,..2 to 3 hours later
5 grams.Then it really booted in.

I felt as if I was being wobbled, like I had 7 or 8 tribes men, either side of me,holding me on a rug,
,they were standing and the rug was a few feet of the floor and they were wobbling me.

Vibrated,..as if my cells were vibrating with the melody of the wobbling,roking,uhmmmm  uhmmmmm.

No vomiting. No nausea,…

Risdules,yes  but I tell you ,..NO ORBLEM.up to 15%,but it was not the same sick energy,

It seems to flow,up down,up down,relaxed

EGO,is not a,dirty word.
Ego is not dirty   dirty word.

WoW you really have to let it Go.
I tell you what?my ego was very strong.

I feel mentally exhausted.

I will right again. Saras cooking breakfeast for me,
Downstairsgo
um, Gotta go.

Smiles Jasen         J

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Jasen Chamoun” <JasenHappy@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:10:47 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You heal people with your raw honesty Preston.
Both you and Sara are healing people.
—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

Sorry about that Preston,

“plus is safer and less addictive”.that why…

It is not less addictive but non- addictive.
It is proven not to be addictive.

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 15:30
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

I’m not sure who you are responding to Sara, and I think that once again
that language barrier thing has confused the message I wrote.
My described turmoil hasn’t anything to do with my or anyone else’s
cannabis use. My initial problem in this note was with my use and addiction
to cigarettes, then I moved on to my serious, severe current, reoccuring
issue with banging my drugs again, not to be too open about it on a public
list or anything.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 3:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs/Pot and addiction

“What is happening is that the government is using a
condition they created out of thin air, non-existent,
called “addiction”, to justify its fascistic
prohibitionist actions to the world in an attempt to
demonize and stigmatise cannabis consumers.  Ask your
neighborhood fascist what the “symptoms” of addiction
are.  He either won’t be able to tell you, or he’ll
tell you some nonesense which is a blow by blow
repetition of prohibitionist propaganda statements
found on their advertising.  This is to scare ignorant
non-consumers of cannabis into supporting the
fascistic and illegal crushing of democratic rights of
cannabis consumers.
You know damned well that not using cannabis has
no “withdrawal” symptoms.  Its no different from
stopping the consumption of ice cream, or broccoli, or
any other food, except you are not getting a buzz,
which people who DO know about cannabis know full well
is just harmless fun, and hurts nobody.
So stop playing the innocent.  Those folks you
complain about are trying to murder and torture you
for purposes that have absolutely nothing to do with
your health, safety, welfare, or anyone else’s.  Quit
playing their game, and get on with the reality of
cannabis consumption and the law.  We are all being
preyed on by evil fascist murderers, and we need to
start defending ourselves.”

From my friend…

Greetings crookedeye,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Verzonden: vrijdag 19 november 2004 4:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

Thanks for the suggestion, but being a fond lover of smoking herb with or
without cigarettes, and having actually tried that before to no avail, I’m
afraid that ain’t gonna cut it either.
I’ve also tried substuting clove cigs for tobacco, but that really, really
didn’t cut it either.
It’s been quite some time I’ve been discussing this here, and it sounds
the
same as always, like I’m a weak ass git who can’t find self-control.
Sorry, I’m feeling a bit off-balance and angry at myself for this and
that reason. I can’t seem to find it in myself to open up much about it
(having tried a number of time to do so here but ending up deleting the
message before hitting send), finding myself embarrassed and hateful and
sad, but this is about as far as I feel like taking it publicly. Suffice
it
to say, I’m going to take ibogaine again at some point, as I believe I’ve
recently noted, but wonder- will this, as with every other freakin’
fucking
“treatment” I’ve ever tried turn into one of these stupid, “oh well,
nuther
failed effort” things? Am I weak? Or am I simply supposed to be taking my
drugs in the most effective manner possible and should just tell the rest
of

the world to fuck the hell off? I mean, I seem to be doing fairly well for
the most part, other than for this irritating, complicating love of drug
effects, foreign molecules, and other socially unacceptable things and
behaviors. And even with those I’m doing fairly well, besides having to
deal

with the complications of trying to do my substances in the way I find
most
effective without feeling too guilty and fucked up about it- and worst of
all, finding myself hiding it from the people I care most about in the
entire world because, well, most of you (with some possible exceptions who
will remain unnamed by me for now) understand what I’m talking about and
where I’m coming from.
Anyway, love to you all.
(How can life suck so bad at the same time things are going so fucking
well?)

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <CrookedEye420@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] smoking cigs and addiction

I found that when I get the urge to smoke a cig, I just fire up some ganja
instead and it relieves the urge, plus is safer and less addictive,
physically.  I only want a cigarette when I don’t have herb to smoke.
Maybe herb could help…

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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 1:06:21 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, I haven’t been here long, but most on this list seem
supportive…sometimes strangers are the best ones to let it all out to.  I
hope we or someone can help you put it all in perspective.  When it’s all in
your own head, it seems impossible.  When you let it out and get feedback,
it doesn’t fix everything, but it doesn’t seem near as bad.
Hang in there, or go get some prof help if you can. I don’t know what you
have over there…….I guess I’ve been lucky with the drug counsellor I
got, she’s into a lot of things I am, herbal, spiritual etc so we get on
great.  I still don’t like myself much, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it
was a couple of months ago.
With much love
Kirsty

—–Original Message—–
From: HSLotsof@aol.com [mailto:HSLotsof@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 6:27 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s

Hi Hannah,

Well, at least you have the list to write to and a dog to keep you centered.

There are some people who don’t have a list or a dog. I’m just not in a
talkative mood now but, I am certain some of the list will give you a boost.

Warmest regards for the holidays and the new year.  Sometimes things happen
for the
best.  Don’t let it get you down.

Howard

In a message dated 12/13/04 11:09:49 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am
I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?
A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t
play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.
So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the
thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.
Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these
situations.
Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.
He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be
single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last
week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one
week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that
he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t
believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks
and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want
people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just
wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone
(and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)
He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose
toegther
where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust
come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never
realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make
it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally
differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such
an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see
anyone,
I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home
to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.
But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this
was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying
to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing
I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll
help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I
can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.
I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in
myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him
back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling
it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.
Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs
feeding
and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves
the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.
I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though
i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m
so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but
stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But
as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone
instead
of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be
a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out
my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta
buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you
go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse
for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking
risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me
thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear
now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s
only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such
shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.
I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he
was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved
me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say
something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.
I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.
I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love
to everyone, Hannah x

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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 14, 2004 at 12:27:20 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Hannah,

Well, at least you have the list to write to and a dog to keep you centered.
There are some people who don’t have a list or a dog. I’m just not in a
talkative mood now but, I am certain some of the list will give you a boost.
Warmest regards for the holidays and the new year.  Sometimes things happen for the
best.  Don’t let it get you down.

Howard

In a message dated 12/13/04 11:09:49 PM, hannah.clay@ntlworld.com writes:

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am
I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?
A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t
play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.
So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the
thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.
Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.
Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.
He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be
single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last
week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one
week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that
he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t
believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks
and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want
people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just
wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone
(and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)
He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther
where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust
come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never
realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make
it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally
differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such
an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone,
I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home
to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.
But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this
was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying
to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing
I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll
help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I
can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.
I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in
myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him
back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling
it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.
Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding
and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves
the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.
I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though
i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m
so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but
stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But
as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead
of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be
a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out
my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta
buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you
go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse
for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking
risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me
thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear
now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s
only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such
shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.
I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he
was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved
me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say
something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.
I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.
I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love
to everyone, Hannah x

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:30:49 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hannah,

It is good that you are sharing your feelings with others, even the
virtual folk on this list. Lots of people here are rooting for you.

It sounds like your use of heroin helped you miss the signs of your
new ex’s unhappiness with the relationship, and that sheltering
your addicted previous ex provided a reason for you to keep using.
My suggestion is that your ‘helping’ your previous ex only helps
both of you to remain stuck, and that now would be a good time to
separate from him as well.

Also, just because your new ex needs to leave doesn’t mean that his
love was a lie. It sounds like he is just taking care of himself.
People must take care of themselves first, if they want their love
to be strong and healthy enough to build real lives upon.

Lots of warm wishes to you this season and always. Eat well! If the
season seems too lonely, maybe some volunteer work could take you
out of yourself? Give your dog a pet for me.

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:14:02 -0800 Hannah Clay
<hannah.clay@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even
smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers
thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I
don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting
drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink
vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want
right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?
Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.
Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before
yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me
Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t
want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on
though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get
myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see
me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he
up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks
and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t

want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see
me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I
don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m

just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m
stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds
me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and
it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never
realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to
make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see
it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him
happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my
bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had

to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk

my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was
gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening
for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get

away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only
thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says
he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m
skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make
himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than
ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped

up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I
just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him
handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try

to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with

my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he
hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the
other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets
so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t

seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go
out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left

but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself
sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I
need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger
from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m
already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see
this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know
I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to
help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and
ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall
asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even

worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I
feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?

That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared
I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I
just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How
pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there
and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I
thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me
going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like
but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he
could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to

say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List
in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t

pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear
Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

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http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Kirsty Sutherland” <captkirk@kol.co.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:06:20 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh, we think alike!!  Must watch the same movies!
But I’ve seen cover ups in my time, so I know it happens.
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 December 2004 3:04 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

it smells horribly of – and i hate to use the term – a conspiracy.

multiple wounds… well, i suppose w/buckshot there would be multiple
wounds, but if yer shootin yerself you’re so damn close to the barrel
it would look like one big [messy] wound.

shooting yourself 2X in the head with a shotgun, well thats a pretty
amazing feat, cause it ain’t easy shootin yerself with a long barreled
gun. not that i have personel experience, i’ve just seen way too many
movies.

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 03:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

I didn’t write that “shot in the head twice,” Craig Roberts did. I
only drew attention to his and others’ suspicions, (mine included) and
feel that multiple “wounds” is weird, as is a note telling visitors to
call 911 and an abumlance might be needed. If he was killing himself,
why need an ambulance? Someone elsewhere pointed out that’s another
weird thing, and seems awfully staged.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is
often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

/
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Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004


Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.807 / Virus Database: 549 – Release Date: 12/07/2004

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:03:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it smells horribly of – and i hate to use the term – a conspiracy.

multiple wounds… well, i suppose w/buckshot there would be multiple wounds, but if yer shootin yerself you’re so damn close to the barrel it would look like one big [messy] wound.

shooting yourself 2X in the head with a shotgun, well thats a pretty amazing feat, cause it ain’t easy shootin yerself with a long barreled gun. not that i have personel experience, i’ve just seen way too many movies.

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 03:53 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

I didn’t write that “shot in the head twice,” Craig Roberts did. I only drew attention to his and others’ suspicions, (mine included) and feel that multiple “wounds” is weird, as is a note telling visitors to call 911 and an abumlance might be needed. If he was killing himself, why need an ambulance? Someone elsewhere pointed out that’s another weird thing, and seems awfully staged.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 8:53:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I didn’t write that “shot in the head twice,” Craig Roberts did. I only drew attention to his and others’ suspicions, (mine included) and feel that multiple “wounds” is weird, as is a note telling visitors to call 911 and an abumlance might be needed. If he was killing himself, why need an ambulance? Someone elsewhere pointed out that’s another weird thing, and seems awfully staged.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 8:19:08 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

there were multiple shots in his head?

that doesn’t sound like suicide.

i wonder what story[s] he was working on recently?

On Monday, December 13, 2004, at 02:07 PM, Preston Peet wrote:

Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:39:56 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hannah, I feel for you.
I’m thinking of you, though I’m sure that can’t help much right now, but it’s true.

Peace and love,
Preston

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

—– Original Message —– From: Hannah Clay
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single. He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was. He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half. I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title. I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] review of UTI- first one
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:34:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all,
Feel free to forward this if you’d like.
Figures the Canadians would be first on this. Where are my countryfolk? (With the exception of one reader review – thanks Gary btw- on Amazon, they’re not all that eager to write glowing, or not so glowing, reviews for publication, yet.)
😉

http://www.counterbias.com/br011.html

snip-

“This book contains too many reasons for drug legalization and medicalization to list. It has reminded me of the almost lost knowledge of that split second in eternity, all those years ago, that momentarily renewed my hope that life could be something other than just the war torn battlefield it is.”

more at above URL.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:25:10 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My mind went on paranoid as soon as I heard about Gary Webb. He was what freedom was all about. Guys like him kept the suits somewhat on their toes and sooner or later something happens. Be it pressure from above or self imposed, something happens. He is irreplaceable to the cause and will be sadly missed.             Randy

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fw: Peter Dale Scott
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:07:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —– From: Richard Metzger
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:35 PM
Subject: Fwd: Peter Dale Scott

Begin forwarded message:

From: Robert Anton Wilson
Subject: Fwd: Peter Dale Scott

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jesse Walker Date: December 13, 2004 10:04:05 AM PST
To: Subject: Peter Dale Scott

Peter Dale Scott on Webb’s death:

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/12/1709370_comment.php#1709462

Begin forwarded message:
From: markoff chan Date: December 12, 2004 10:43:04 PM PST
To: Subject: Re: Another convenient suicide
Don’t tell me, another guy who shot himself in the
head, twice.
Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative
journalist whose star-crossed
career was capped with a controversial newspaper
series linking the
CIA
to the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles,
died Friday of
self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael
home Friday morning of
gunshot wounds to the head, the Sacramento County
Coroner’s Office
said
Saturday.
He left a note, but officials would not disclose
its contents.
The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at (916)
321-1091 or
sstanton@sacbee.com
— JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764 77501-Cancun Q. Roo
Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com/portfolio
Newsroom-l, news and issues for journalists
http://www.newsroom-l.net/blog
NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft,
Inc.
http://www.lsoft.com
olga666@rattlebrain.com
http://www.frogboy.freeuk.com/illuminatus.html
http://www.gunsanddope.com/
http://www.rawilson.com/
http://www.maybelogic.com/
http://www.maybelogic.org/
http://raw23.home.comcast.net/
http://www.alphane.com/raw.htm
http://www.deoxy.org/learyraw.htm
a midi pommes bleues
“I” am also a “You.”
–Alan Watts
NON ILLUMINATI CARBORUNDUM
=====
“You should view the world as a conspiracy run by a very closely-knit
group of nearly omnipotent people, and you should think of those people
as yourself and your friends.” –Robert Anton Wilson
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a midi pommes bleues
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NON ILLUMINATI CARBORUNDUM

olga666@rattlebrain.com
http://www.frogboy.freeuk.com/illuminatus.html
http://www.gunsanddope.com/
http://www.rawilson.com/
http://www.maybelogic.com/
http://www.maybelogic.org/
http://raw23.home.comcast.net/
http://www.alphane.com/raw.htm
http://www.deoxy.org/learyraw.htm
a midi pommes bleues

“I” am also a “You.”
–Alan Watts

NON ILLUMINATI CARBORUNDUM

Richard Metzger
The Disinformation Company Ltd.
207 West 25th St. 4th floor
New York, NY 10001
212 691 1605
http://www.disinfo.com

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.capt. kirk
Date: December 13, 2004 at 6:31:38 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron can take onr day out of his life to see a doc and get started on his “slow taper”. months have gone b y and situation unchanged.

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] out of topic War ?/!
Date: December 13, 2004 at 6:17:46 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi list !

I have a feeling of ” deja vu”

An interview :

“Of course the people don’t want war. But after all, it’s the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it’s a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger.”
— Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 13, 2004 at 5:52:05 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi FP,

Yep, addiction is hell.  And I understand EXACTLY what you say and mean.  I told a friend of mine don’t take Ibo for the fun of it, it kind of kicks your ass.  The visions are the most bizzar of anything.  For me the hard part was the restlessness and trouble sleeping.  But I know of nothing better.  It seemed for me I could stay clean for maybe 4 days then the cravings would come on and it was over, I would give in to them.  30 days is pretty good, just keep away from people who would tempt you to use and you got the best chance that you have had in years.

I am wishing you all the luck, have a nice holliday good friend.

– JIM

FakePlacebo <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Jim,
I’m still clean and yes It’s hard to stay clean. But addiction is (as you said) hell I’m not 100 % yet but day by day I’m going better. Iboga realy strange kind of thing that wich is made me ready for quite addiction. I’m clean for almost one month and most important thing is I have no desire to oppiates. I suppose Iboga still acting on me in spite of so many times passed after I took Iboga. This is so weird for me. I tried quite addiction for many before Iboga for times but Oppiates was always in my brain, in my soul. But this time Iboga changed everything. Yes Iboga treatment is not a piece of cake. It’s very hard but I think there is no other way for me.

Wormest Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:08 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand

HI FP,

I am glad to hear you doing good, I don’t have that much time or energy for the forum, I got over 500 letters to read and I can’t read them all.  Don’t worry about your language skills, you come from another country and might not be the greatest writer using English.  But, we are not judging you on your English or spelling.  In fact I think most people on this forum do not judge people at all.  We understand what you are saying, your ideas and point of view or where your’re coming from which is far more important than how you spelled a word or if you used an incorrect word.

I said a few prayers for you asking that you get what you want and that the ibo would work.  Yes, addiction is a hell of a problem, I hope that you can stay clean.  Write me when you get a chance and let me know how your doing.  It is always nice to hear from you.

As always I wish you the best and hope you have a nice Christmas and New Years.

– JIM

__________________________________________________
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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 13, 2004 at 3:37:08 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My patient who took iboga to detox of anti depressants benzo and bup. is  in the fifth day and doing fine. He will send a report when he will be done.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Verzonden: maandag 13 december 2004 3:46
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] the Native American Church
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:45:44 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

One of our (well, Jeff’s) treatment angels has one of
my best books on this topic out in the ethers.  But
I’ll add a nuance to what you seem upset about,
Preston.

There are several different branches of the Native
American Church, and I believe their extremely hard
won legal standing relies on sovereignity rights —
like civil (citizenship) rights but that predate the
existence of the U.S. state, and are sovereign to the
indigenous peoples — rather than free expression of
religion.  Its an importantly subtle distinction.

The N.A.C. — which is only a certain branch of the
larger practice of Peyote Religion — has opposed lots
of “piggyback” organizations, and I think the
peyoteros started having serious problems in the later
60s when “a bunch of hippies” started showing up in
the Texas desert, “ruining” certain ancient fields and
drawing legal attention to the racialization issues
around defining some folks as “native” blooded and
thus legally protected, compared to others.  Its
tricky, controversial subject in Indian Country, as
the spread of Peyote out of the Sonora into the plains
and mountains further Norte travelled along with some
of the same forces of adapting to colonization.  I
perceive a lot of ethnological similarities in the
spread of the Bwiti sects.

This is what’s so complicated about the border.  The
indios of Mexico and southward from La Frontera are,
obviously, also Native Peoples’ with indigenous claims
to their culture.  But its not recognized by the U.S.
government.

Whose “Homeland” is this place, anyway?

– rachel

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:40:10 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeh I agree.  It just aint’ that simple Schmoolyboy and if I were Ron your message would have hindered rather than helped.

Ron,  take what you need from his message (i.e. it is possible, just do it!  Actions not words etc)  And leave the rest!
Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 4:33 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:14:21 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i’m surprised this didn’t “happen” sooner.

a loss for sure.

On Sunday, December 12, 2004, at 06:33 PM, Capt Kirk wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

Are they sure he didn’t get too close to something?  I’m into conspiracy
theories!!
Sad to lose these kind of people.
Well, sad to lose anyone really… specially taking their own life
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 11:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on the

forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like
saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most
inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own
picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a
candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,” Dresslar
said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the
allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] OT Hannah’s
Date: December 13, 2004 at 2:14:02 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi,

The fact that I’m writing this to the list makes me feel even smaller-am I so alone that I can only tell this to strangers thousands of miles away?  A couple of friends wanna see me but I don’t want to see them-I can’t play the dumped woman role-getting drunk n bonding with my girlfriends.  So instead I sit and drink vodka alone, too skint to even buy any H-the thing I really want right now but equally hate cuz its what got me here.  Or is it?  Is it just me?  Am I so pathetic that I create these situations.  Why can’t I just carry on like everyone else?

My boyfriend of 3yrs left me last weekend.  The Sunday before yesterday.  He told me he’d had enough Saturday and left me Sunday.  He wants to be single.  He wants a new life.  I don’t want any life without him.  Last week I tried so hard to carry on though it seems like months not just one week.  I tried to get myself together but really just in the hope that he wouldn’t see me as this useless needy person anymore.  I just can’t believe he up and left just like that.  Its awful.  Its Christmas in 2weeks and my birthday christmas eve so I have to be sociable cuz I don’t want people to worry. The morethey worry the more they wanna see me and I just wat to disappear.  I can’t even kill myself cuz I don’t wanna hurt anyone (and i’m not crying out for help here, I’m just being honest for once)  He’s gonna get a new place and I’m stuck here in the flat we chose toegther where everything reminds me of him.  For days Istill thought he wouldjust come home and it’d be ok but tonight he dropped in and we rowed.  I never realised how unhappy he was.  He says for three years we tried to make it work but we’re too different and argued too much.  I see it totally differently.  I love him.  I’d do anything to make him happy.  I’m such an IDIOT!  By the end I couldn’t even leave my bed-I didn’t wanna see anyone, I was too depressed to move. He had to work all day and then come home to me in tears and have to walk my dog etc.  I was never there for him.  But if I knew he was gonna leave I would hve changed!  But he says this was happening for months.  I was so wrapped up in myself and H and trying to get away from H and depression and feeling bad….I lost the only thing I had because I’m too selfcentred.

Whay do I never appreciate what I’ve got til its gone?

Now I’m left with hundreds of poundw worth of bills that he says he’ll help me with.  He’s even offered me cash cuz he knows I’m skint.  But I can’t accept it.  I just think its just to make himself feel less guilty.  I have so much paperwork and more than ever I can’t deal with anything.

I feel so bad to see how unhappy he was and I was so blind wrapped up in myself.  Now its got to the stage of hurting each other.  I just want him back.

The cristmas stuff makes mockery of how I feel.  When I see him handling it no problem that makes mockery of how I feel.  Do I try to keep going.  Can’t I jut give up?  Unfortunately I’m stuck with my dog who needs feeding and walking but even he’s avoiding me-he hatse it when I cry, he leaves the room.

Dan’s been here and helped loads half the time and hindered the other half.  I wana stop the gear first and foremost but he gets so sick even though i’m giving him half my subutex, it jut doesn’t seem to help him.  And I’m so broke I can’t even get drunk and go out.

I wish he could have given me one more chance.  He could have left but stayed a couple.  Then I would have a reason to get myself sorted.  But as everyone says I need to do things for myself, I need to cope alone instead of leaning on others.  I’ll stagger from day to day cuz I don’t wana be a burden to others and I’m already ashamed.  Why didn’t I get my head out my arse and see this coming?

I don’t know what I’ve said-its not what I meant to say.  I know I’ve gotta buck up and sirt myself out and not expect others to help but how do you go on when your hearts been torn out and ground into the mud?

God I wish I had some H.  Intead its just vodka, maybe I’ll fall asleep.

AAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!  I’m dying inside.  And tomorrow I’lll feel even worse for posting this.  But right now the vodkas working and I feel like taking risks.  How can I get some cash to get some gear?  That thought stops me thinking of paul.  My friends are scared I’ll just give up to the gear now and lose what life I have.  I just want some comfort and now there’s only H to give it!  How pathetic am I?  There’s people going through such shit out there and I’m whining like a 13yr old.  But that’s what I’m like.  I thought he loved me anyway, that’s the one thing that kept me going-he was the only one who loved me.  He knew what I was like but still loved me.  Now I see that was all a lie.  Not even he could love me.

I’m sure I’ll feel better tomorrow, sorry for this.  I just had to say something.  In future ignore nything by me that says Off List in the title.  I can’t bring myself to see real people cuz I can’t pretend to be ok.  I’ve never felt so alone and hopeless.  Dear Paul, I’m so sorry.  Love to everyone, Hannah x

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] re: comments about Webb FROM Cele, not BY Cele
Date: December 13, 2004 at 1:49:55 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh great, I just heard from Cele, and he did NOT write the message about Gary Webb’s death I just posted, although he sent it to me saying “please post.” Silly me, I though he’d written it since he was asking me to post it.
He thinks it was Mike Ruppert but is unsure. It’s kinda weird, I know, sending out messages when we don’t know who actually wrote them and urging people to post them (not everyone understands that writing it a product of work and therefore people want credit for said work, not to mention that whole “it’s not mine, it’s someone else’s” thing). So, I apologize for posting it and giving Cele credit for writing it, and if anyone can tell me if it was Ruppert or if not who did write it I’d be very happy. Thanks.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

original note excerpt >Gary Webb, Pulitzer Prize winner, died this weekend in what was pretty clearly a suicide. Even if he pulled the trigger of the shotgun that killed him, he was still a victim punished unjustly for his pursuit of the truth.

It is clear that anyone who has dared to speak out about the CIA and the drug traffic has risked losing his job. In like fashion Celerino Castillo was eased out of DEA, and Robert Parry lost his job at AP. When Gary was absurdly abused by a pack of attack dogs at the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post, Gary’s editors at the San Jose Mercury-Tribune failed to stand by him; and in the end virtually they forced him off the paper by reassigning him to a trivial suburban post.<

Was this by Ruppert, or who? Anyone know?

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Celerino Castillo on Gary Webb
Date: December 13, 2004 at 1:13:25 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Celerino Castillo sent me the following this morning. For those unaware, Castillo was the lead (and only) DEA agent on the ground in El Salvador during the Contra supply efforts in the 80s that were happening all around the region and neighboring countries, including at the Illogango airbase (see my oft posted here article at: http://www.drugwar.com/pcatchintel.shtm, or my article about Oliver North Still in Denial in Under the Influence for that matter for much more on this topic), where Felix Rodriguez and Oliver North and others too were busy supplying the Contras and helping run tons of drugs and weaponry and commit murder and steal and lie and cheat and start wars and other neato endevours. Castillo reported the ongoings on at Illopango to his superiors as well as to George Bush I himself, only to be shoved out of the way and charged with misdeeds and such. Such is the way often for those who step on big people’s toes. Big people don’t like that very much at all and often make life hell for those who do step on their toes, like Webb and Castillo here, among others.
Peace and love,
Preston
—–
Comments by Celerino Castillo

Gary Webb, Pulitzer Prize winner, died this weekend in what was pretty clearly a suicide. Even if he pulled the trigger of the shotgun that killed him, he was still a victim punished unjustly for his pursuit of the truth.

It is clear that anyone who has dared to speak out about the CIA and the drug traffic has risked losing his job. In like fashion Celerino Castillo was eased out of DEA, and Robert Parry lost his job at AP. When Gary was absurdly abused by a pack of attack dogs at the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Washington Post, Gary’s editors at the San Jose Mercury-Tribune failed to stand by him; and in the end virtually they forced him off the paper by reassigning him to a trivial suburban post.

The guilty consciences of the major newspapers is reflected now in the demeaning obituaries they have written about him. Gary’s treatment of the CIA-drug story was not flawless; no one’s is or can be. But he deserved far better than he got; and it is the other journalists who attacked him who should now hang their heads in shame.

It is difficult to be the victim of injustice, and not become obsessed by it. As someone else has observed of this tragedy, it is important that we resist the changes imposed on us by the world, by responding instead to the truth that is within us.

For those of us who have had the luck to survive in this struggle while others have died, some of them murdered, our response must be to carry on.
—–

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 1:09:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI NICK

Thank you for sending me that info about treatment using ibogaine, i will do some research for myself and keep you posted.

once again thanks

donna

From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 12:39:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

slowone wrote >I understand from what I’ve seen on the net that the Native
American Church opposed extension of the principle that covers
their use of peyote to this case, and that both the UDV and the
U.S. government view the UDV case as unrelated to the religious use
of ayahuasca by Santo Daime (another Brasilian church).<

If true, how sad. (Good point on the temporary status of the stay though, as noted in your note below, thanks for pointing that out.)Descrimination continues even amongst the supposedly openminded and free spirited. Why is it we do things like this to one another? This is the most basic root of the war on some drugs and users to get right down to it and after profits and power issues are considered. The whole “those people are different and taking substances that I don’t understand/want/know/ and I’m afraid of them and their stuff and their state of mind, since I haven’t experienced it and don’t want to because it’s foreign/unknown/different/strange and etc, etc, blahbiddy blahbiddy blah” even extends to some of us who should know better, but apparently don’t.     Is it possible the Native Amerian users of peyote feel that linking the ayahusaca case to the precedent set by their own case might bring unwanted attention on them, and possibly risk their legal status? I hope that’s the case because otherwise I’m going to be really depressed to find out this is true and they oppose using their case as precedent in the ayahusca case. What could the possible reason be for UDV to descriminate against Santo Damie besides sheer prejudice?
Is it possible the Native American users of peyote feel that linking the ayahuasca case to the precedent set by their own case might bring unwanted attention on them, and possibly risk their legal status? I hope that’s the case because otherwise I’m going to be really depressed to find out this is true and they oppose using their case as precedent in the ayahuasca case.
And even if it is just for one church in Arizona, if they win I would imagine that others could then use the case to argue their own religious use ayahuasca, even though they’ll probably have to go through the court system to do so, i.e. have to get themselves arrested first, even if the Arizona church does get to continue using their sacrament after this brief stay order by the SCOTUS. If one church can use it, others can also, after of course “proving” their religious use is “legitimate,” and controlled use in a safe setting isn’t always a bad thing I would think- I’m not too into the idea of taking psychedelics in lab settings for tests and such, as that I imagine could turn into a horrific nightmare of a trip to someone of my mindframe, not enjoying medical settings at all. I also don’t think I’d personally enjoy the regimentation imposed by someone else on my trip, even in a church setting, although I would like to try participating in one of these services someday. That would be interesting but for now I don’t think I’d want to join any church no matter what their sacrament- but never say never, right?

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

This story (as quoted) is misleading – the supreme court only
allowed use of the tea during the time they decide the case, i.e.
they only put aside the stay that Breyer had put in place. In any
case, this case is about religious use in controlled circumstances
by one church.

I understand from what I’ve seen on the net that the Native
American Church opposed extension of the principle that covers
their use of peyote to this case, and that both the UDV and the
U.S. government view the UDV case as unrelated to the religious use
of ayahuasca by Santo Daime (another Brasilian church).

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:03:48 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.<

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10387740.htm

Allows N.M. Church to Use Tea
MARY PEREA

Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that a New

Mexico
church has the right to use a hallucinogenic tea in its services,
rejecting
a government argument that the tea is illegal and potentially
dangerous.
The ruling brings to a close a long-running legal fight between
federal
officials and the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente
Uniao do
Vegetal over the church’s use of hoasca tea, brewed from plants
found in the
Amazon River Basin.
The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of
the tea in
a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church’s U.S. president,
Jeffrey
Bronfman. Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the
tea and the
church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S.

Circuit
Court of Appeals in Denver.
The government took the case to the Supreme Court, where Justice
Stephen
Breyer last week granted a temporary stay to give both sides time
to file
more arguments. The full court lifted the stay Friday and ruled in

favor of
the church.
“They’re delighted,” attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church
members she
represented. “They’re so thrilled that they can celebrate
Christmas for the
first time since 1998.”
Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately
return calls
seeking comment.
snip-
I think this just came through here the other day actually, but
I’m
reposting it for your elucidation.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are
saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do
you know if
it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health
food store
or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the
reply to
stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is
hard
sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus
and
sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you
don’t have
the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a
brief
description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:46:58 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Donna,

I have been taking ibogaine & eboga for the past 6 years and have used it intensively for dealing with childhood abuse as opposed to drug addiction. The list is full of people who have either taken it for addiction or are in recovery. I am sure any number will be happy to give you their opinion in this regard.

I work with eboga/ibogaine from a pychological/spiritual viewpoint for healing the person on all levels. You can check out my site which deals with my work: www.my-eboga.com, if you wish.

I have also wrote a book after 6 years use of ibogaine and you can read some chapters & reviews on this link www.my-eboga.com/amazinggrace.html. You might find this particular link useful to read:

www.my-eboga.com/forelee.html

If you have any questions after reading here please feel free to post.

I should point out that my view encompasses the relationship of the ego to the soul and the emotional body and works from the premise that spirit entities are working through eboga to help us – as that is my direct experience.

What I write is a reality for me and it works.

The proof of the pudding ….

Love & Light

Lee

Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
Hey Donna,

I’m also in the UK, Dorset, and run a website on ibogaine. There are at least a couple of people in the UK that you can check out for getting treatment off. Both are listed at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm , they’re Hattie and Ward. It’s good to read the max about the drug before taking it to be sure that you understand what it is and what it does and does not offer. If you want to chat privately I can mail you my mobile number, no problem. Let me know.

All the best

Nick Sandberg   www.ibogaine.co.uk
—–Original Message—–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]
Sent: 13 December 2004 12:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NA tribes and serotonine
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:17:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why NA and AA  builder of serotonine ?
From  a study of Gogek, E, B ” the dry drunk syndrome” Subtype of depression .
American Journal of Psychiatry,151 ( 1994 ) 947 – 48.

I could’t read rhe entire research available at the PubMed site  but basicly, here you have a short version from
Ronal Ruden MD PHD in his book ” the craving brain”

Attending AA can raise serotonine. As Gogek describes, the lay term ” dry drunk ” refers to the dysphoria expreienced by an individual who has stopped drinking. the symptoms reported include feeling deeply depressed, feeling very tired, agitated phisical activity, poor concentration, hopelessness and thought of suicide. Involvment in AA appaered to allievate many of theses symptoms.

we have described this dysphoria as low- dopamine low-serotonine landscape. The ability to raise serotonine by arttendance to AA maybee similar to the effect of the drug Prozac have on the tonic dopamine landscape. Like prozac, alcoholics anonymous must be abble to raise both dopamine and serotonin to explain the observed effect

SNIP>snip<
IMHO This will explains maybee why  the old timers keep saying :
Go to meeting .
30*30 . stick with the winner. Meeting makers make it.


Being a member of AA or NA accomplishes this. When a pattern stimulates the craving for alcohol ( or drugs ), the nucleus accubens releases dopamine. Thoses who have ” worked the program can produced a conditioned response to the craving.
AA (NA) uses the primal surival system to raise serotonin. It is throught the feeling of fellowship ( herd ) and safety ( wich is why is anonymous ) that this is accomplished ”
Page91 the craving brain

I have no personal interest in promoting AA or AA but seriously ,why,  from the Idea of two drunks we have actualy more than 150 000 club house ( only for AA ) not counting Overeaters, gamblers and NA  covering all the world ? This  was achieved in 60 years !!

God Bless
Francis

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 11:06:28 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: jimhadey3@yahoo.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Jim,

Ayahuasca is the name of a vine that grows in the Amazon, and also
of a brew made with it and a DMT-containing plant (Psychotria
viridis).
The vine contains harmala alkaloids, which allow the DMT to pass
into the blood and thence to the brain, which also has its own
natural supply of DMT. Additionally, since the harmala alkaloids
are reversible monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), they have a
mild antidepressant effect, and the vine alone is considered a
teacher.

There are other sources of harmala alkaloids and DMT, for example
the European-origin Peganum harmala seed and Mimosa hostilis
rootbark. Such analogs are sometimes referred to as synthahuasca
and the practitioners as analogueros, after ‘ayahuasceros’. The
vine is generally considered a deeper teacher than P. harmala, but
requires some work to extract and is more expensive. Overall I
consider it a gentler cousin of iboga, the most similar to it of
the entheogens.

All the ingredients are available online. The MAOIs are legal in
the US, while DMT-containing are not. So far there have been two
publicity-receiving cases brought against alleged importers of DMT-
containing plants.

Here is a link where you can find out more, also see the material
at erowid.

http://www.yage.net/ayahuasca/

On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 16:20:42 -0800 Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do
you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it,
from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the
reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For

it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the
hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the
letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.

Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to
take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view

to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t

know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough

good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate
Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 10:45:15 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This story (as quoted) is misleading – the supreme court only
allowed use of the tea during the time they decide the case, i.e.
they only put aside the stay that Breyer had put in place. In any
case, this case is about religious use in controlled circumstances
by one church.

I understand from what I’ve seen on the net that the Native
American Church opposed extension of the principle that covers
their use of peyote to this case, and that both the UDV and the
U.S. government view the UDV case as unrelated to the religious use
of ayahuasca by Santo Daime (another Brasilian church).

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 05:03:48 -0800 Preston Peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:
Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.<

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10387740.htm

Allows N.M. Church to Use Tea
MARY PEREA

Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that a New

Mexico
church has the right to use a hallucinogenic tea in its services,
rejecting
a government argument that the tea is illegal and potentially
dangerous.
The ruling brings to a close a long-running legal fight between
federal
officials and the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente
Uniao do
Vegetal over the church’s use of hoasca tea, brewed from plants
found in the
Amazon River Basin.
The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of
the tea in
a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church’s U.S. president,
Jeffrey
Bronfman. Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the
tea and the
church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S.

Circuit
Court of Appeals in Denver.
The government took the case to the Supreme Court, where Justice
Stephen
Breyer last week granted a temporary stay to give both sides time
to file
more arguments. The full court lifted the stay Friday and ruled in

favor of
the church.
“They’re delighted,” attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church
members she
represented. “They’re so thrilled that they can celebrate
Christmas for the
first time since 1998.”
Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately
return calls
seeking comment.
snip-
I think this just came through here the other day actually, but
I’m
reposting it for your elucidation.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is

often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are
saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do
you know if
it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health
food store
or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the
reply to
stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is
hard
sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus
and
sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you
don’t have
the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a
brief
description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:42:55 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Donna,

I’m also in the UK, Dorset, and run a website on ibogaine. There are at least a couple of people in the UK that you can check out for getting treatment off. Both are listed at www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm , they’re Hattie and Ward. It’s good to read the max about the drug before taking it to be sure that you understand what it is and what it does and does not offer. If you want to chat privately I can mail you my mobile number, no problem. Let me know.

All the best

Nick Sandberg   www.ibogaine.co.uk
—–Original Message—–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com]
Sent: 13 December 2004 12:40
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att.capt. kirk
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:28:04 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

it’s been a gut wrenching dilemma.  i’m standing down for a time on the list.  it’s not about me and i’ve wasted a lot of peoples’ positive energy whining. i hope to one day celebrate and contribute something meaningful. thanks
—– Original Message —–
From: Capt Kirk
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
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From: Jeffgd1@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 13, 2004 at 9:26:48 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You said:
yes Iboga treatment is not a piece of cake. It’s very hard but I think there is no other way for me.

Wormest Regards
FakePlacebo
I reply
yes yes yes it is a long road i am 5weeks out form a ten year methadone habit (80 then down to 50 mgs) and it has been a slow road I wasn’t prepared for really how raw I was going to be post treatment but as bad as i felt it wasn’t in the same league (almost) as true kicking ass withdrawals I went in three days from addicted to not i am still amazed
everyday is not better BUT every FEW days are better and that is what i hold onto. This past week has shown some real improvement i even cut out most of my many baths i have been taking  they do help relieve some of the bone ache.
I am seeing a psych on Tuesday and for the first time it feels like the thing for me I have  always been averse to it.
i have giving up my movie( cable TV habit . I don’t feel like anything on TV can mean much . I have replaced it with a great passin for musical appreciation Tho Rachel is getting tired of my repitoir!
Things have been good the full on ibo rush i was experiencing is subsiding and i am very much looking forward to another visit to the jungle.But my brain is still zoom zooming at times which i dig big time! i am hoping my next treatment will be more insightful.
I have been phoning folks as well which is something i never do. i feel somehow more connected to people now and something else some ancient thing mmmmm…
so thats it  i wanted to check in  and say hi and thankyou to everyone who sent good wishes and anyone else.
Freak Freely!
Jeff

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 13, 2004 at 8:03:48 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.<

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/10387740.htm

Allows N.M. Church to Use Tea
MARY PEREA

Associated Press

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. – The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that a New Mexico church has the right to use a hallucinogenic tea in its services, rejecting a government argument that the tea is illegal and potentially dangerous.
The ruling brings to a close a long-running legal fight between federal officials and the Brazil-based O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do Vegetal over the church’s use of hoasca tea, brewed from plants found in the Amazon River Basin.
The legal battle began after federal agents seized 30 gallons of the tea in a 1999 raid on the Santa Fe home of the church’s U.S. president, Jeffrey Bronfman. Bronfman sued the government for the right to use the tea and the church won a preliminary injunction, which was upheld by 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver.
The government took the case to the Supreme Court, where Justice Stephen Breyer last week granted a temporary stay to give both sides time to file more arguments. The full court lifted the stay Friday and ruled in favor of the church.
“They’re delighted,” attorney Nancy Hollander said of the church members she represented. “They’re so thrilled that they can celebrate Christmas for the first time since 1998.”
Bronfman and attorneys for the government did not immediately return calls seeking comment.
snip-
I think this just came through here the other day actually, but I’m reposting it for your elucidation.
;-)))

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
secure FREE email: http://www.hushmail.com/?l=2

Free, ultra-private instant messaging with Hush Messenger
http://www.hushmail.com/services-messenger?l=434

Promote security and make money with the Hushmail Affiliate Program:
http://www.hushmail.com/about-affiliate?l=427

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Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.

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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 7:40:02 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Lee

My husband says he wants to come off, as for me i really want to be clean and can not believe after being clean for a year i went back to it,  so i will check out all the information on ibogaine and i will get clean that way or use the subutex again and if my husband does’nt do it with me i completely agree with you there is no future because this time i will not go back to it.  thank you so much for your advice.  Have you had ibogaine????

donna

From: “FakePlacebo” <fakeplacebo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 13, 2004 at 6:34:13 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Jim,
I’m still clean and yes It’s hard to stay clean. But addiction is (as you said) hell I’m not 100 % yet but day by day I’m going better. Iboga realy strange kind of thing that wich is made me ready for quite addiction. I’m clean for almost one month and most important thing is I have no desire to oppiates. I suppose Iboga still acting on me in spite of so many times passed after I took Iboga. This is so weird for me. I tried quite addiction for many before Iboga for times but Oppiates was always in my brain, in my soul. But this time Iboga changed everything. Yes Iboga treatment is not a piece of cake. It’s very hard but I think there is no other way for me.

Wormest Regards
FakePlacebo
—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:08 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand

HI FP,

I am glad to hear you doing good, I don’t have that much time or energy for the forum, I got over 500 letters to read and I can’t read them all.  Don’t worry about your language skills, you come from another country and might not be the greatest writer using English.  But, we are not judging you on your English or spelling.  In fact I think most people on this forum do not judge people at all.  We understand what you are saying, your ideas and point of view or where your’re coming from which is far more important than how you spelled a word or if you used an incorrect word.

I said a few prayers for you asking that you get what you want and that the ibo would work.  Yes, addiction is a hell of a problem, I hope that you can stay clean.  Write me when you get a chance and let me know how your doing.  It is always nice to hear from you.

As always I wish you the best and hope you have a nice Christmas and New Years.

– JIM

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ibogaine treatment – Att. Donna
Date: December 13, 2004 at 5:49:50 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Donna,

If you are refering to Ron he has not gone through treatment yet.

Also, there is another very competent and knowledgeable provider names Karl Naeher based near Paris I believe. He has a web site called www.ibogainetreatment.com and is more than capable of helping you. He is also a chiropractor, rolfer, acupunturist … and complements his treatment with these modalities.

It does work but I strongly advise you consider whether its possible to stay off with a partner who is not willing to stay off (?) as the basic problems which led you to Heroin will act to lead you back within 3 months unless you are on top of the situation with follow up work.

Good luck.

Lee

AbbotAngel@aol.com wrote:
Hi did the treatment not help you at all???? I was researching ibogaine to use as treatment for heroin addiction.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 13, 2004 at 5:12:33 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi did the treatment not help you at all???? I was researching ibogaine to use as treatment for heroin addiction.

From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well, if my father was dying I think that would be taking priority in my life….specially if it’s close…
Ron will get there….I think he has to deal with this first…be patient….. the time to celebrate with ron will come.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com [mailto:Schmoolyboy@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 3:54 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

—
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] having a Ibo provider….
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

Lovely thought, but not always possible.  I will be trying in the next few months to find someone, but if that’s not possible, I;m going to have to find the person who’s going to work with me on doing this safely and properly.
Oh to have trained Egoba’s in every city!!! (Did I say Egoba? LOL)
Kirk J
From: D H [mailto:dave@phantom.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 8:25 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

Donna, self-administering ibogaine is NOT a good idea.

You should really really really [REALLY] have someone present who is experienced in these matters.

_.dh
You don’t have to do this by yourself.  Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:05:42 AM Pacific/Honolulu
To: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: ibogaine


Hi
 
I have recently been researching ibogaine to self administer for heroin addiction would you have any info that could help i would be really grateful
 
 
donna



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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

Are they sure he didn’t get too close to something?  I’m into conspiracy
theories!!
Sad to lose these kind of people.
Well, sad to lose anyone really… specially taking their own life
Kirk

—–Original Message—–
From: Preston Peet [mailto:ptpeet@nyc.rr.com]
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 11:00 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com; drugwar@mindvox.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning
investigative reporter

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on the

forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like
saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most
inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own
picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a
candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,” Dresslar
said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the
allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] getting clean with a partner still using… donna…
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 5:27 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

Hi Donna.
I don’t want to stick my nose in here, but I have to say it’s pretty much impossible to give up the drugs if your partner isn’t going to.  Took me several successful (at the time) detoxs to learn this.  I had to leave him.  It was NOT easy… specially with my daughter, who had grown to love him.  HARD HARD!!
Anyway, you’ll do what you’ll do…. But  you will need to consider this.   Does he want to get clean too>
Kirk
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com [mailto:AbbotAngel@aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, 13 December 2004 8:46 a.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a bit about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came off using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia to watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!  got back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found out and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately dont wat to be.

donna

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From: “Capt Kirk” <captkirk@free.net.nz>
Subject: [Ibogaine] reason for bad teeth….
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:33:05 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

 

From: Capt Kirk [mailto:captkirk@free.net.nz] 
Sent: Sunday, 12 December 2004 4:10 p.m.
To: ‘ibogaine@mindvox.com’
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

There;s a number of reasons for bad teeth, I have a sis a year older than me, perfect teeth, 40 and no fillings. Me, gaps everywhere, fillings galore and in the process of fixing em up best we can.  Also, enamel worn off on front teeth.
Possible reason for my teeth is having a virus around age 4 while my second teeth were developing, and apparently any kind of virus at that age can have a detrimental effect on second teeth.
Wouldn’t it be great to suss out shark DNA?  They have numerous sets of teeth during their lifetime.
Two just aint enough anymore.
Here’s to gappy becoming fashionable!~
Kirk
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com [mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 11 December 2004 11:21 p.m.
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:39:50 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He was a great man and a great teacher.Amazing. I just talked with my son in
BU about him
God Bless

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on
the
forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like
saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most
inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own
picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read
this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a
candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often
mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —–
From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,”
Dresslar
said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the
allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NA AA serotonine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:23:00 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why NA and AA  builder of serotonine ?
From  a study of Gogek, E, B ” the dry drunk syndrome” Subtype of depression .
American Journal of Psychiatry,151 ( 1994 ) 947 – 48.

I could’t read rhe entire research available at the PubMed site  but basicly, here you have a short version from
Ronal Ruden MD PHD in his book ” the craving brain”

Attending AA can raise serotonine. As Gogek describes, the lay term ” dry drunk ” refers to the dysphoria expreienced by an individual who has stopped drinking. the symptoms reported include feeling deeply depressed, feeling very tired, agitated phisical activity, poor concentration, hopelessness and thought of suicide. Involvment in AA appaered to allievate many of theses symptoms.

we have described this dysphoria as low- dopamine low-serotonine landscape. The ability to raise serotonine by arttendance to AA maybee similar to the effect of the drug Prozac have on the tonic dopamine landscape. Like prozac, alcoholics anonymous must be abble to raise both dopamine and serotonin to explain the observed effect

SNIP>snip<
IMHO This will explains maybee why  the old timers keep saying :
Go to meeting .
30*30 . stick with the winner. Meeting makers make it.


Being a member of AA or NA accomplishes this. When a pattern stimulates the craving for alcohol ( or drugs ), the nucleus accubens releases dopamine. Thoses who have ” worked the program can produced a conditioned response to the craving.
AA (NA) uses the primal surival system to raise serotonin. It is throught the feeling of fellowship ( herd ) and safety ( wich is why is anonymous ) that this is accomplished ”
Page91 the craving brain

I have no personal interest in promoting AA or AA but seriously why from the Idea of two drunks we have actualy more than 150 000 club house ( only for AA ) not counting Overeaters, gamblers and NA  covering all the world ? This  was achieved in 60 years !!
I didn’t realy to write the next sntence. I am afraid I will start a flame. Please dont shoot the messager !! But  anyway, can’t be bad comes from the heart and I my curious ::

Here you go :

I am sure some  of you are thinking : why can’t we do the same thing with Ibogaine ?/! And help more than 200 millions of people our are stuck in addiction ? What’ s stop us ? If it’s work it’s work !!
God Bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: Jim Hadey
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
> But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
>Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
>of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
>it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

>One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
>stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
>think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:06:40 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/12/04 2:53:09 PM, AbbotAngel@aol.com writes:

<< I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a  bit
about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came
off
using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although
my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to

low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia
to  watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non
exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!
got
back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found
out
and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately
dont wat to be. >>

Check out http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 12, 2004 at 10:01:35 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

kamlet can be reached at kamletmd@aol.com . he is pres. elect of Florida society of addictionmedicine and has given Ibo to many hundreds with and without Mash. That is where I found his info and heard him lecture in California

He knows his stuff and lectures all over the place. He ran an ER for 10 rears and can handle what ever problems might come up besides being a addictionologist and an over 10 year clean junkie.

He is an independant. although he works with Mash. Mash is Mash and Kamlet is Kamlet.

I respect Mash as I respect Sara and Howard and Millendi and all those who try to help.

Would it not be great if they all would work together. Medical science ego’s must be huge/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:57:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/12/04 2:52:49 PM, AbbotAngel@aol.com writes:

<< HI thanks for getting back to me could i have someone i know there to help

me through it? its just so far from what i have read i dont think i would
like
to go through that in a unfamiliar place with someone i dont know. >>

It is best to go through it with someone who know’s both ibogaine and how it
works with heroin dependence.

Howard

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:54:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, This is bullshit. You know that I know several people who offered to help you and you have their #’s So why have you not gotten off your butt and made a trip to see one of them. One is just a days drive from you. No one said they would lock you up.

I know them ( at least one of them ) personally and he is a great detox doc who offered you a slow, make sense taper and did not want anything from you except to help.

If you spent 1/10 the time you do writting your dear me notes, you might actually get clean. I asked that doc if he heard from you and he said he told you to come see him. Just once to start.

Did you go? NO.

When a person offers to help but they do more work for your recovery then you yourself are willing to do, well, they will walk away.

The time is now.

Just do it bro or else stop bitching.

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:46:04 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes I do .IT does not work . Even at huge dosages it won’t stop a benzo kick. It helps a little like clonidine helps opiates but if that is all your counting on—good luck.

The whole, Neurontin thing has been pushed by powerful drug companies as a miracle cure for what ails ya. It doesn’t do much as far as I have seen yet it is prescribed like candy by every psych doc out there.

From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Your English skills – don’t worry about it – we understand
Date: December 12, 2004 at 8:08:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI FP,

I am glad to hear you doing good, I don’t have that much time or energy for the forum, I got over 500 letters to read and I can’t read them all.  Don’t worry about your language skills, you come from another country and might not be the greatest writer using English.  But, we are not judging you on your English or spelling.  In fact I think most people on this forum do not judge people at all.  We understand what you are saying, your ideas and point of view or where your’re coming from which is far more important than how you spelled a word or if you used an incorrect word.

I said a few prayers for you asking that you get what you want and that the ibo would work.  Yes, addiction is a hell of a problem, I hope that you can stay clean.  Write me when you get a chance and let me know how your doing.  It is always nice to hear from you.

As always I wish you the best and hope you have a nice Christmas and New Years.

– JIM

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From: Jim Hadey <jimhadey3@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] To Miss Iboga (Julie) Agreed what you are saying
Date: December 12, 2004 at 7:20:42 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Slowone,

Could you tell me what ayahuasca is.  Like is it an herb and do you know if it is legal in the U.S.  If so where do you get it, from a health food store or what.  I have never heard of it.

If you get the chance I would appreciate if you could send the reply to stright to my mail box which is jimhadey3@yahoo.com.  For it is hard sometimes to keep up on all the letters.  I have the hep C virus and sometimes do not have the energy to read all the letters.  If you don’t have the time thanks anyway, I understand.  Maybe you could give me a brief description of what it is like to take it.

Much thanks,

– JIM

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
> But Julie have you ever experienced Ayahuasca? After Iboga I
tried it and
>Ayahuasca helped me more than Iboga did. Changed my point of view
to meaning
>of the things. My Ayahuasca trip was fully enlightenment. I don’t
know if
>it’s works on you but helped me so much.

Hi FakePlacebo, can you tell us what situation you took ayahuasca
in?

>One another thing is Ayahuasca. Ayahuasca gave me some kind of
mind state to
>stand againest oppiates trail. If your healt conditions is enough
good I
>think you have to experience Ayahuasca.

In my experience, ayahuasca is much easier on the body than
ibogaine, one might even say it builds energy rather than
weakening.

On Jung, I advise caution. To me he represents mind trying to
master the whole, and I think his belief in Hitler and Mussolini
reflects this.

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 5:17:20 PM EST
To: <BiscuitBoy714@aol.com>, “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>

ok, it’s 5:15 now and still no sign of a subscribe request.
Let’s ask Patrick and see if he knows why it’s not coming to me. I get new requests all the time but haven’t yet seen yours.
Hope you are well the both of you. Gary Webb is dead, how suck ass is that?

Peace and love,
Preston
—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:53 PM
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston

I’m too fried for this. YEAAAAAAAAAA      I tried it again, I hope it works. I used to read it all the time when I was in the Catskills at my Mamma’s. The computer and these lists have saved me time and again. Entertained me too. Life ROCKS. Lets make it louder.    Randy

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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter
Date: December 12, 2004 at 5:00:29 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

OH NO!!!
This SUCKS!
Hats off to a brilliant and tragic figure, someone who was definitely on the forefront of US journalism and made most mainstream journalists looks like saps and lackies for the establishment maniacs. He was one of the most inspiring journalists to myself, actually being instrumental in my own picking up a pen and attempting to get published. I am stunned to read this.
I for one am extremely saddened by this news and will be lighting a candle right now for him.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: andria efthimiou
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [DrugWar] Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative reporter

I wonder what evil shit was making his life unbearable then…
yes, I met him there too. R.I.P
Libby, how come we didn’t meet in Mexico; u talking about Merida?
andria

Libby <baystatebar@yahoo.com> wrote:
Oh no. This is horrible. What a terrible loss. I spent
time with Gary in Mexico. I can’t believe he took his
own life.

rest in peace,

Libby

— Vigilius Haufniensis
wrote:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/11744167p-12630255c.html
Obituary: Gary Webb, prize-winning investigative
reporter
By Sam Stanton and Sandy Louey — Bee Staff Writers
Published 2:15 am PST Sunday, December 12, 2004

Gary Webb, a prize-winning investigative journalist
whose star-crossed career was capped with a
controversial newspaper series linking the CIA to
the crack cocaine epidemic in Los Angeles, died
Friday of self-inflicted gunshot wounds, officials
said.
Mr. Webb, 49, was found dead in his Carmichael home
Fri! day morning of gunshot wounds to the head, the
Sacramento County Coroner’s Office said Saturday.

He left a note, but officials would not disclose its
contents.

“I’m still in a state of shock,” said Tom Dresslar,
who works as a spokesman for California Attorney
General Bill Lockyer and had known Mr. Webb for 15
years.

“He was a hard-core, no-fear investigative
reporter,” Dresslar said. “He wasn’t afraid to stand
up to whatever authority.”

The two worked together when the Joint Legislative
Audit Committee was investigating the Davis
administration over the failed Oracle Corp. software
contract.

Dresslar said Mr. Webb brought all the skills and
tenacity that he had honed as an investigative
reporter to his job as an investigator for the
Assembly. “I was proud to work with him and call him> a friend,” Dresslar said.

Mr. Webb was divorced and had three children,
according to Dresslar.

Most recently, Mr. Webb had been reporting for the
Sacramento News & Review, covering politics and
state government.

Mr. Webb had been working in the California Assembly
speaker’s Office of Member Services until February,
when he was ousted after the new speaker, Fabian
Núñez, took office.

Mr. Webb won more than 30 journalism awards in his
career, which included stints with the Cleveland
Plain Dealer and the San Jose Mercury News.

But it was Mr. Webb’s tenure at the Mercury News
from 1988 to 1997 that made his name in the business
and eventually drove him from daily newspapers.

Mr. Webb, who was based in the newspaper’s
Sacramento bureau, authored a three-part
investigative seri! es in 1996 that linked the CIA to
Nicaraguan Contras seeking to overthrow the Sandin
ista government and to drug sales of crack cocaine
flooding south-central Los Angeles in the 1980s.

The series, “Dark Alliances: The Story Behind the
Crack Explosion,” was controversial almost from the
start.

Even as newspapers nationwide carried versions of
Mr. Webb’s reporting and congressional leaders
called for investigations, the CIA director at the
time visited Los Angeles for an unprecedented town
hall meeting with area residents at which he denied
the allegations and was met with loud jeers.

Three of the nation’s leading newspapers, the New
York Times, the Los Angeles Times and the Washington
Post, followed up with reports questioning Mr.
Webb’s conclusions, and eventually his own newspaper
turned on him.

In! a letter to readers published in the Mercury News
in May 1997, then-Executive Editor Jerry Ceppos told
readers there had been problems with the series and
that “we fell short at every step of our process –
in the writing, editing and production of our work.”

Within a month of that note’s publication, Mr. Webb
told the Washington Post that he had been pulled off
the story, and his editors had told him they would
not publish his follow-ups.

He also said he was fighting a transfer from the
Sacramento bureau to a posting in Cupertino.

By then, however, his fate at the Mercury News was
sealed, and he left the paper that year, eventually
taking a job with the Assembly.

Mr. Webb later published a 548-page book based on
his series, and in a 1998 interview with The Bee he
said he still was befuddled over how he became> notorious while the allegations in his stories were
dismissed.

“That is an amazing phenomenon,” he said. “I’m still
not exactly sure how that happened.”

About the writer:
a.. The Bee’s Sam Stanton can be reached at
(916) 321-1091 or sstanton@sacbee.com.

ATTACHMENT part 2 application/octet-stream
name=34343464633437623431343064353930?_RM_EMPTY_

=====
Libby Spencer
Northampton, MA 01060
Publisher: Last One Speaks
http://lastonespeaks.blogspot.com/
Detroit News blogger
http://info.detnews.com/weblog/
email: baystatebar@yahoo.com

__________________________________
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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:41:01 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Julie

Thank you so much and well done it bloody fantastic that you are clean and such an achievement!!! you should be really proud, I will contact sara in holland and keep you posted.

donna

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:23:51 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna,

Welcome to the list…Yes, Ibo IS a spiritual
experience- nearly everyone who has done it will say
the same thing.

Like Dave and Randy said, I would also advise against
self-treatment with Ibogaine.  I did that once, and
ended up very sick, right back on methadone, and short
a few bucks…

Second time around, I had an experienced provider, the
proper environment, and PRESTO- everything just fell
into place!  I have now been clean of all opiates for
over 2 months, which is a personal record…In short,
I feel fucking fantastic(pardon the French)!!!   🙂

Because you are so close, I would recommend that you
go to see Sara in Holland…She has received glowing
reviews, and sound likes a kind, special person…She
posts here often- drop her a note, and I’m sure she’ll
respond soon…

Cheers from Toronto,

Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “Hannah Clay” <hannah.clay@ntlworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:28:30 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna,

Look out for Hattie Wells-she’s in London I think.  She’ll have a contact email address somewhere.  Else there’s Sara Glatt in the Netherlands if you can travel-her place sounds like the most perfect way to go about it.  Hope you find what you’re looking for!  I’m in the UK but haven’t done Ibo…yet!  Trying to do the Subutex thing myself at the moment.

Love Hannah
—– Original Message —–
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine

I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a bit about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came off using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia to watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!  got back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found out and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately dont wat to be.

donna

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:18:29 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You’ll see. Hahahahahahahahahahahah It is hard to describe, but I don’t think it has to be connected to God. It is very individual.

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:05:48 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Why is the ibogaine conected to god? did it have a religious affect on you?

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 3:03:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, I think there are providers in England. I know there is a very nice lady who does it in her home in Holland. I hadn’t met my provider till the day I did it. I was scared too, but it turned out to be the most beautiful experience I ever had while tripping. That is one of the reasons you need some experience there with you. Medically and spiritually the Ibo providers are way ahead of the rest of the recovery world. Your in the right place. Keep it up.   Randy

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:51:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HI thanks for getting back to me could i have someone i know there to help me through it? its just so far from what i have read i dont think i would like to go through that in a unfamiliar place with someone i dont know.

donna

From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:45:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I live in the UK on the south coast near brighton.  I will tell you a bit about myself me and my husband have been on h for years last summer we came off using subutex at first it was fantastic we did it at the same time although my hubby was a week behind me, it was so stressful by the time we got down to low dose we were ready to kill each other and hubby was invited to australia to watch the world cup rugby.  while on the  h our sex lives were non exixtent anyway cut along story short he cheated and we split up!!!!!!!!!!  got back together and he was back on it and tried to hide it obviously i found out and in the end after loads of arguments i ended back on it and i desparately dont wat to be.

donna

From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:25:11 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, self-administering ibogaine is NOT a good idea.

You should really really really [REALLY] have someone present who is experienced in these matters.

_.dh

You don’t have to do this by yourself.  Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Date: Sun Dec 12, 2004  9:05:42 AM Pacific/Honolulu
To: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: ibogaine

Hi

I have recently been researching ibogaine to self administer for heroin addiction would you have any info that could help i would be really grateful

donna

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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: [Ibogaine] Fwd: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:13:57 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, where are you located? Approximately, don’t give up your address or anything. What country and what city is it close to. You don’t have to do this by yourself.  Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: ibogaine
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:05:42 PM EST
To: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com

Hi

I have recently been researching ibogaine to self administer for heroin addiction would you have any info that could help i would be really grateful

donna

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 2:10:46 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Donna, you came to the right place. Ibogaine works like nothing else, esp. for Heroin. Be specific, ask a lot of questions and find the magic. All the providers have a link on the web page and most of them post here. Welcome to the list and please stay long enough to get the help you need.          “Free Your Mind and Your Ass Will Follow”………George Clinton    Randy
From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 1:59:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi

I have recently been logging on to the ibogaine site and trying to research the drug a bit more.  Do you have any info about heroin addicts using this drug if you have i would be really grateful if you could email me.

thank you

donna

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: AbbotAngel@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 1:59:59 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi

I have recently been logging on to the ibogaine site and trying to research the drug a bit more.  Do you have any info about heroin addicts using this drug if you have i would be really grateful if you could email me.

thank you

donna

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 1:53:54 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m too fried for this. YEAAAAAAAAAA      I tried it again, I hope it works. I used to read it all the time when I was in the Catskills at my Mamma’s. The computer and these lists have saved me time and again. Entertained me too. Life ROCKS. Lets make it louder.    Randy
From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:52:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,
Try it again. Send an email, To Subscribe, at this email address:

drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com

It should then come to me asking for me the moderator to verify that I want your raggidy ass…errr, no, that’s not what I mean, I mean, to ask me if I really want the person sending the request to really be subscribed, or if it’s actually some sort of rock n’ roll playin’ maniac, out for a wild tim…darn it, there I go again. I mean, or if it’s some sort of spam letter or generator asking me to be subscribed.
;-))
So try it please, and let’s see what happens- again.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston

Preston, I feel like an idiot. I’ve tried about 5 times to sign up for the DrugWar list and can’t ever get it done. How do I send my address to it? Randy

/]=———————————————————————=[\
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From: “Preston Peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 11:52:29 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Randy,
Try it again. Send an email, To Subscribe, at this email address:

drugwar-subscribe@mindvox.com

It should then come to me asking for me the moderator to verify that I want your raggidy ass…errr, no, that’s not what I mean, I mean, to ask me if I really want the person sending the request to really be subscribed, or if it’s actually some sort of rock n’ roll playin’ maniac, out for a wild tim…darn it, there I go again. I mean, or if it’s some sort of spam letter or generator asking me to be subscribed.
;-))
So try it please, and let’s see what happens- again.

Peace and love,
Preston Peet

“Madness is not enlightenment, but the search for enlightenment is often mistaken for madness”
Richard Davenport-Hines

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com
Editor http://www.drugwar.com
Editor “Under the Influence- the Disinformation Guide to Drugs”
Cont. High Times mag/.com
Cont. Editor http://www.disinfo.com
Columnist New York Waste
Etc.

—– Original Message —– From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston

Preston, I feel like an idiot. I’ve tried about 5 times to sign up for the DrugWar list and can’t ever get it done. How do I send my address to it? Randy

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Anger The Healing Emotion / Mini Sessions / The Shadow & A Note for Carla 🙂
Date: December 12, 2004 at 9:00:27 AM EST
To: Ibogaine List <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: Eboga Elistas <eboga@elistas.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This point (Anger The Healing Emotion) ties right into my own personal experiences right now. I can very much agree with this as anger unexpressed is like a ball of fire that lives down deep inside us and interferes with the choices we make from day to day as we seek to avoid it or act it out, i.e. it controls us. Worse still. Some use it in a malicious, sick fashion such as coming on this list and fucking with others for the sake of amusement. Fortunately that has not been my experience here. Yet, the most vulnerable to this kind of abuse are those who probably cannot face their own anger leading to a form of sado-masochism born of co-dependency in the worse case scenario.

Myself, I am now encountering a great deal of my Shadow and know I have to connect with all the anger I have not expressed re: the abuse I went through as a child, in order to not colour my experiences in day to day life further with this unreleased anger. Example. We can avoid someone who has hurt us because of the feeling of anger it engenders. Yet the real present anger can be insignificant but leads to losing someone in our present life because of it, i.e. the person we avoid and are angry towards.

Eboga works in mysterious ways and I am going to tell you a personal story of how in this case it is working for me. It’s a long post so move to the next post if its not your thing – it does have a bit of gossip though 🙂

Recently I gave mini sessions to 2 friends of mine – one I knew well, the other for a short time. Beforehand I had a lot of ideas of setting up a center on a charitable basis to administer eboga. After this experience I decided very much against the idea. I made some elementary mistakes and I learned my lessons bitterly. I accept that with regret – lack of foresight. Yet the sessions were very successful in the round – as much for me as for those undergoing them – both expressed deep gratitude immediately after.

However, I was later royally screwed over by the one I knew for a short time who publicised very subjective and personal material about my relationship to a (girl) friend of mine with whom he was having a relationship with at the time, as well as elementary mistakes I made in the session itself (not the kind of publicity I was seeking having just published my first work on eboga). His experiences in the session brought up a lot of emotions for him that got mixed with present day events. BTW I paid for most of the eboga and charged nothing for the sessions as I do not charge for any eboga work I do – except the eboga itself. I don’t do a lot of sessions as I seek to work with people I feel I should work with and can trust. Still early days.

I learned many lessons here and the first was self protection and the difference between compassion for someone and letting them screw you over based on the pretext that they are simply expressing themselves freely and that all healed people should be able to accept that. Sorry, not when it crosses the boundaries. I also learned its important to chose candidates carefully for this kind of work. I also think this particular kind of work (mini sessions) should be done on a one to one basis. The individual needs special attention and sometimes guidance at this dose level. I don’t rule out group work but at this stage I am not at all keen on the idea unless I am working alone in small numbers with backup close at hand but out of the way. It also helps that the person having the session is reasonably mature in understanding the meaning of projection and to be able to distinguish between the past and the present and not to seek relief in present day projections – after counselling is advised. Having said that projection is a very powerful force which can tax the most discerning minds. I also learned about my own responsibilities. To know them is one thing. To enact them is another as sometimes we can get caught out by events – hence working alone for me is preferable. In this case I was with someone who was a helper/observer who had no experience in this area and proved to be a small but significant distraction to me & because of her connection to the person undergoing the mini-session a distraction there also. (Yet, it all worked itself out beautifully – thanks Eboga!) I imagine I will go on to learn much more. Which is why I veer now towards the idea of experienced initiated friends helping trusted friends for this kind of work. (Major sessions are a completely different kettle of fish). I hope to establish some form of network to do this work on a charitable basis.

I was absolutely livid about the material published. My anger towards the sessions failings and my own failings (which I accept) I could deal with and did in fact resolve within myself. But this was a malicious step across the line and that was not acceptable. Had I listened solely to my mind which is my normal style when avoiding anger, I would have swallowed the bullshit and passed it over blaming my own shortcomings in the process (co-dependency). But as I have been encountering my Shadow recently it has shown me I am not dealing properly with my anger and so in this case the feeling was so strong, I felt like I was levitating on air. I decided to brush aside my rationalisations and accept the power that was in me. My rational mind could begin to rationalise it away but my whole self just moved with a force of certainly (not normal anger as such) I could not avoid and I confronted this individual – highly unusual for me as I tend to run away from such confrontations. I told him what he did was completely egocentric and lacking in consideration (not to mention it being a selfish payback) and to stay out of my life completely. Do I regret doing that? No. Do I think it makes me a less loving person? No. Do I think it was good for him? Probably. Do I hope he moves on in himself? Yes, most certainly. Do I want to fill my being with peace and love? Yes, please! But love begins with Self and Self protection is a basic aspect of Self-Love.

Sometimes we have to trust our own inner force that emerges and fills us with a sense of outrage. Its an outrage that doesn’t seek to destroy but to protect & to affirm the beauty and the wholeness of ones own Self and most importantly the dignity of Life: my life, your life, all life.

I will just add a note for Carla. I like your spunk even if sometimes I may not agree with everything you say 🙂 But I do think it is important for me to learn how to improve on presentation and delivery. Hitting the right balance between ego and soul is an art and one I find myself struggling with and learning on this list. Obviously, there is something in what you say and I know I have much to learn as I move from my old life to my new one – like a baby learns to walk. Yet, nobody is perfect as my post here testifies.

BTW thank you to the guy who screwed me over. Eboga worked through you and once more helped me to move on. Thanks a million!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Preston
Date: December 12, 2004 at 7:42:25 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston, I feel like an idiot. I’ve tried about 5 times to sign up for the DrugWar list and can’t ever get it done. How do I send my address to it?            Randy

From: “Sjonnygee .” <sjonnygee@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 12, 2004 at 4:19:45 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, those neuro sounds are really very interesting – I don’t want to dumb things down too much but I put them through wavelite/reason and I’m using them as percussion on some song files ,truly organic music – thanks a lot…………….sjonny

>In a message dated 12/11/04 3:39:44 PM, kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk writes:

>

><< http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html

>

>

>http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/son.html >>

>

>

>

>   /]=———————————————————————=[\

>  [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

>   \]=———————————————————————=[/

>

>

/]=———————————————————————=[\ [%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%] \]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Out of topic survivors stories
Date: December 11, 2004 at 11:36:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Some fascinating real  stories of survivors, hurricane, sinking boat, fire
etc..

http://www.thrivenet.com/articles/oprahsty.html

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —–
From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–

From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New
Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

——————————————————————

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even
more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members
of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

——————————————————————-

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo!
Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

——————————————————————-

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
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http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html
[%]

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[%]

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 11, 2004 at 9:54:20 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/11/04 3:39:44 PM, kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk writes:

<< http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/son.html >>

Great pages.  Loved the sounds on son.html

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light -ron to martee (OT)
Date: December 11, 2004 at 7:02:11 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for the suggestion, it’s a good one.  might cut down on the whine time. no need qualify positive suggestions w/ respectfully and the like, although i appreciate the bedside manner.  trying to get that positive mindset that i’ve dodged all these yrs.  seems to run on one side of the family and i’ve chomped onto it. noone likes to hear it and the ears or eyes it falls on could be alot worse off than my sitch. peace, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

ron,
Last night on abc primetime(i believe) they did a piece on youths committing suicide after ingesting paxil and zoloft.  The dr. expert who exposed the drug co’s lack of serious testing and renaming withdrawl, discontinuance something(i forgetand representing these families is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.  He is also involved with this lawsuit. He has a book called the antidepresant handbook. This one girl stopped in three months total, by cutting pills and then  liquifying them and using a dropper.  I do not personally know this guys reputation or protocol.  I googled his name and it came right up.  Maybe there’s something there to help you feel more comfortable with how you are going about helping yourself.  I am unfarmiliar with any pills other than the ones from the 60’s your basic ups and downers. After that I had no desire to mix pills with my methedone even though everyone else was.  So even though the pills discussed here may not be the ones you are on, i’m thinking there may be some info to assist you in your quest to help yourself. I know i just repeated myself but there’s a reason for that.
It also sounds like your fear is also of what is to come or pass.  And again if you are able to maintain for this minute, this hour, this day (which I believe you do) then your fear is an illusion and a hinderance to your mental, emotional, physical and spiritual state.  You need a plan that be it slow progress is still progress and be at peace with what you are doing (going in the right direction). Functioning from a more calm centered place.   I only have one more thing to say for now.  Sara Sara SaraSaraSAraSaRASARA.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 11, 2004 at 3:38:56 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If anyone has any more links to start out with please
let me know,

“you know…for kids”
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/introb.html

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/son.html

___________________________________________________________
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 11, 2004 at 2:55:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Francis,

Thank you for showing your appreciation.
I have never been an addict but I have made myself an addict to
Tobacco then took Iboga and felt how easy it was for me to quit.
That means for me a lot. One of the reason for me to provide an Iboga
session is because I use Iboga each year and also many time small
Doses to stay awaken. A very small dose keeps me in “that” Iboga state
Of mind. It felt magical, fear of the magical and letting go of that fear.
The people who experienced it know what I’m talking about and for many
It would be just the reason not to do it.

Be well,

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 18:09
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

Hi Sarah !!
That the way I see my God too, like you said :
“everything everywhere all
the time, it is endless.”

No wonder you are doing such a wonderful job with Ibogaine, is that a
mission
or you where youself addicted and found your way out troughr Ibo ?
God bless you
Francis

You wrote :

In my opinion. Because of the teachings I had, God= everything everywhere
al
the time, it is endless.
The ego, is some how your teacher, the drive to get some where.
Forgiveness will open the way to new experience in life.
Life is a system, the ego can teach us how to live in a system
But also against the system, other species live with the system.
The system is taking care that we can stay alive.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 2:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 11, 2004 at 12:09:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Sarah !!
That the way I see my God too, like you said :
“everything everywhere all
the time, it is endless.”

No wonder you are doing such a wonderful job with Ibogaine, is that a
mission
or you where youself addicted and found your way out troughr Ibo ?
God bless you
Francis

You wrote :

In my opinion. Because of the teachings I had, God= everything everywhere
al
the time, it is endless.
The ego, is some how your teacher, the drive to get some where.
Forgiveness will open the way to new experience in life.
Life is a system, the ego can teach us how to live in a system
But also against the system, other species live with the system.
The system is taking care that we can stay alive.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 2:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] zoom zoom zoom – mercury(OT)
Date: December 11, 2004 at 11:06:50 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

never mentioned  that as a reason. as i recall, they were expanding and all going to fall out soon.  (they’ll all probably fall out 2-night).  he had a fledgling practice, beautiful hygienist and had just started his first strip mall as an outside investment. or maybe he d/n think i knew enough to explain things thoroughly. like i couldn’t understand dental speak. ron  he soon moved to another spot, the hygienist married a beach developer, the mall was built, filled and now sits in a rundown neighborhood surrounded by convenience stores with several empty shop  in it. i d/n think the dentist lives near by but could be wrong.—– Original Message —–
From: Rachel Radhakrishna
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:09 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] zoom zoom zoom – mercury

Ron, did the Dentist want to change your fillings because they were mercury amalgam?
I was a sugar addict from before the age of five, and given my genetics, my natural teeth didn’t hold up too well under that.  They did worse when I got braces.  So I have jaws full of toxic metals, and wonder sometimes if they are contributing to my general brain fog.
Because, ya know, why blame it on The Drugs?  😉

__________________________________________________
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee from ron
Date: December 11, 2004 at 9:45:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,
Sounds like tapering in your state is maybe not going to help as you are not in a good place mentally to get on with it.
Out of curiosity. Why wont you take the plunge and go to Sara and use Howards pointers?
When you get there you can still bail out.
Maybe ask for a sign when you take the time to communicate with your inner source?
Just a thought.
Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzos have zapped the dreams. wouldn’t know rem sleep if it bit me. my father has congestive heart failure, under hospice, on oxygen generator and stays at home.  he’s dying before my eyes.  i’ve squared with him but need to stay close for my mom.  she’s got the faith, positive gene pool and cannot understand addicts.  the old man was one, got sober for yrs. , relapsed, like me.  she’s angry. now i’m not on the pity party, just responding to a question.
i want to be sttrong for her but find i’m dragging her down. also,  being the only kid w/ no partner now  has me feeling  preorphan.    the stressfull job keeps pushing me and the ball keeps spinning.  i suspect i’ll take the death hard, but i ain’t getting sober like i should.  the FEAR  you perceptively point out has me paralyzed.  don’t know how fast to taper, can’t hold a taper when i get ultra stressed, soone ror later all sources will dry up and i’ll be in jail or on the streets.  that’s old at 54.  no fun in my life, very lethargic.  i once helped people , now my clients are praying for me.  never could keep up a journal.  you are very thoughtful to have asked me these things and i thank you for it. i don’t think i’m doing as well as i appear.  i think i’m hanging by a straw. my parents were happiest when i was straight, i was functional and helpful.  i just get by now.  my fault. i know today’s bottom can be tomorrow’s penthouse and i don;t wanna go there. breaking that pill has me trembling and will render me sleepless.   thanks for the encouragement. ron i’ll miss my father as many others on the list miss their lost loved ones.—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Ron,

I am very proud of you man. Sounds like you are stepping forward. You dont sound too twisted to me. Just under the influence of a lot of fear. I think your mindset is pretty good right now and in the right direction.
Do you mind if I ask what timescale do you expect for your father? Or is it open ended?
My father passed away and frequently joins me in my sessions. He seems very pleased at my progress as I am sure your father too will be when he decides to go to the other side. I still think of my father most days and he passed on a few years before I started eboga about 6 years ago. Truth is I still feel him as being alive in some way. In many ways I know him better now that I ever did. I have been given a lot of insight. I feel a lot of love for him.
Sometimes we can only do one thing at a time but at least you are now doing something.
That idea that came up using the sandpaper sounds like a good one. Breaking a pill in half sounds groundbreaking.
Hang in there and keep going forward.
Carrying the prayer around with you is (imo) a beautiful & enriching thing to do.

Love & Light,
Lee

PS What is your dreamlife like these days? Do you remember them? Have you considered journalling? I get a lot of info & sometimes clear guidance from my dreams.

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

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ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Ego
Date: December 11, 2004 at 5:34:35 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Help I’m a rock.      Help I’m a rock.      But I’d rather be a cop.        Help I’m a cop.       Help I’m a cop.     But I’d rather be the Mayor…………….. Frank Zappa.            Help I’m an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.          But I’d rather be totally grounded and at one with the cosmos. Does this mean I need another session? (I hope so)           Randy

From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] mercury and surgery post Ibo
Date: December 11, 2004 at 5:21:06 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rachel, I prefer to think having bad teeth is all part of being Heroin chic. (Ha) Who ever came up with that has never been addicted. I hate my teeth being bad and I can’t wait to get them fixed although I am afraid of the drugs they use in doing so. Is there any kind of non opiate that actually works? Has anyone got any experience with Talwin or Stadol post Ibogaine? Would I still feel withdrawal from Talwin? It has been 2 and a half months now but the thought of doing Talwin gives me the heebie geebies. This is a real big issue with me and I would welcome any advice on having surgery and not getting sprung on opiates I can get. I need surgery to get a screw taken out of my left wrist too. Sometimes it really hurts to play the guitar. The conversation with the Dr. goes like this. “Doc it really hurts to play the guitar esp. playin’ an F way down on the bottom of the neck.” “Well, then don’t play the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from me. THEN “Yea right”. You quit playin’ golf and pilfering Demerol and I’ll quit playin’ the guitar.” Blank stare of disbelief from him as he’s thinking, how did he know about the Demerol?                 Randy

From: “Sara Glatt” <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 11, 2004 at 4:49:05 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In my opinion. Because of the teachings I had, God= everything everywhere al
the time, it is endless.
The ego, is some how your teacher, the drive to get some where.
Forgiveness will open the way to new experience in life.
Life is a system, the ego can teach us how to live in a system
But also against the system, other species live with the system.
The system is taking care that we can stay alive.

Sara

—–Oorspronkelijk bericht—–
Van: slowone@hush.ai [mailto:slowone@hush.ai]
Verzonden: zaterdag 11 december 2004 2:56
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: Rachel Radhakrishna <rachelradha@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ibogaine] zoom zoom zoom – mercury
Date: December 11, 2004 at 12:09:51 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, did the Dentist want to change your fillings because they were mercury amalgam?
I was a sugar addict from before the age of five, and given my genetics, my natural teeth didn’t hold up too well under that.  They did worse when I got braces.  So I have jaws full of toxic metals, and wonder sometimes if they are contributing to my general brain fog.
Because, ya know, why blame it on The Drugs?  😉

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:48:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kamlet is the attending physician (doctor in charge) for deborah mash’s
ibogaine therapies on st kitts. Mallendi is a gabonese nganga who has treated over
three hundred persons with iboga and has been popularizing its use in france
and I am the discoverer of ibogaine’s antiaddictive effects.
http://www.ibogaine.org/4499096.html

Sara Glatt is the key iboga/ibogaine provider in the Netherlands.  Eric Taub
has probably treated close to 700 people with ibogaine in various locations.

Begin Again

Howard

In a message dated 12/10/04 9:34:53 PM, rwd3@cox.net writes:

<< these guys all treat folks or are they just sages? curious. don’t know all

the players or their roles.. ron

—– Original Message —–

From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>

To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>

Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:30 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

In a message dated 12/10/04 10:54:32 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Actually written by ron I think.

thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know

there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using

previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus

decreasing

dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant

step.

Anyway, there is nothing to be afraid of.  And bottom line if you really

have

an adverse reaction to coming off benzodiazepines you can take a small

amount

after/during iboga/ibogaine and then get treated again.  Sara is an expert

at

these matters.  That being said I assume no liability for any of your

actions

or hers.  Where is my modern hospital?  I would have kamlet, taub, glatt,

mallendi on staff among others.  You have identified your biggest problem.

It is

fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator of fear I know.

What

will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not afraid?

Kamlet

should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work togther.

Then

they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi iboga center.

Sorry

just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:26:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks for thinking of me. sara and i are in communication, but one of the list’s scholars  frightened me about ibo and benzo.  it was a receptor thing. i know nothing at this point. peace, ron
—– Original Message —– From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

ron,
Last night on abc primetime(i believe) they did a piece on youths committing suicide after ingesting paxil and zoloft.  The dr. expert who exposed the drug co’s lack of serious testing and renaming withdrawl, discontinuance something(i forgetand representing these families is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.  He is also involved with this lawsuit. He has a book called the antidepresant handbook. This one girl stopped in three months total, by cutting pills and then  liquifying them and using a dropper.  I do not personally know this guys reputation or protocol.  I googled his name and it came right up.  Maybe there’s something there to help you feel more comfortable with how you are going about helping yourself.  I am unfarmiliar with any pills other than the ones from the 60’s your basic ups and downers. After that I had no desire to mix pills with my methedone even though everyone else was.  So even though the pills discussed here may not be the ones you are on, i’m thinking there may be some info to assist you in your quest to help yourself. I know i just repeated myself but there’s a reason for that.
It also sounds like your fear is also of what is to come or pass.  And again if you are able to maintain for this minute, this hour, this day (which I believe you do) then your fear is an illusion and a hinderance to your mental, emotional, physical and spiritual state.  You need a plan that be it slow progress is still progress and be at peace with what you are doing (going in the right direction). Functioning from a more calm centered place.   I only have one more thing to say for now.  Sara Sara SaraSaraSAraSaRASARA.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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——————————————————————

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——————————————————————-

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——————————————————————-

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]

\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:18:57 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i hate to ask for professional advice. one member offered professioanl help and i didn’t seize the moment. too my regret.  haven’t heard from him in about a month.  i’ll just put myself out here and if a good samaritan helps me with my cosmic makeover, i’ll figure i’m where i’m supposed to be.  not asking for a freebie, got a few bucks. my nos. scare most docs and they want to lock me up.  i found what i think is a good taper plan by a prof in the uk but no one in my world will buy it. benzo forums all stress avoiding  traditional rehab, 2 week detox..i tend to believe them, but what do i know? just treading water, hopefully will get to shore and recapture my spirit, ron –
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

That thought went through my mind also ie reduction in relation to dosage, but I dont consider myself competent enough to comment on how much one should reduce by.

Ron, have you sought advice on the level you can reduce by? Maybe Dr Tom can advise you there?

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis wrote:
>… as for today i have broken a pill in
>half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
>a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

>… my mind set is this, break the physcial
>addiction and i will be free. the chemicals keep me from the
>power. help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

>don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

> —– Original Message —–
> From: Lee Albert
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

>would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
>is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
>Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.
>
>
>
> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
> He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
> He leadeth me beside the still waters.
> He restoreth my soul:
> he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

>
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
>enemies:
> Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
> Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
>life:
> and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
>
> Psalms 23:1-6
>
> I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
>was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
>other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
>violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
>help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
>by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
>SHINING in your face.
>
> When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
>were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

>top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

>cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

> not to mention the cure.
>
> You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
>get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
>live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
>higher power and it came through for me.
>
> You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
>entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

>in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
>the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

>refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
>is waiting for you.
>
> How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
>faith?
>
> The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
>works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
>
> Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

>experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
>they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

>is the key to success.
>
> I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
>talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

>So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
>got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
>with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
>Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
>will kill you.
>
> God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
>expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
>of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
>
> Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

>a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
>repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
>news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

>Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
>(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
>everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

>you.
>
> You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
>that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
>the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
>death.” with this:
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Blessings & Light
>
> Lee
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
>kind. i will ask. what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

>been in and what was it? were there problems? i think ibo would

>kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

>death
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Sara Glatt
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
>
>
> In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

>any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

>different addiction combination,
>
> Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
>of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
>symptoms.
>
> I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
>talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
>little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
>
> You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
>your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

>do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
>of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
>nights, by that time you can
>
> Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
>session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
>
> That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping. It

>isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
>massages, hot bath.
>
> I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
>done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
>or funds for such research,
>
> Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
>to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
>fun research is that?
>
> I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
>during detox. that what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
>everyone, it was just an option
>
> If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
>like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

>over dosed or under dosed or seizures.
>
>
>
> And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>——-
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> hi sara:
>
> can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
>you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
>benzos alone? scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

>) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

>see it as dangerous or simply difficult? it is beyond my realm
>of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
>
> LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
>far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
>offered advice and help.also apologies to others i may have
>offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
>bashing and the like.
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Sara Glatt
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
>
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Hi , I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
>Cannabis.
>
> Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
>and the mood.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—–
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
>occasioanlly benzoa. I can’t speak for her. Ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

>in your situation & how she did it?
>
> Sara – can you comment?
>
>
>
> There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

>a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
>them.
>
>
>
> Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?
>
>
>
> Albert
>
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
>has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
>with the ibo receptors, hence no go. i am trying to taper with
>the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
>few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
>proven to work. it is a long, arduous journey
>
> and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
>that may have fallen thru. a wise man told me in no uncertain
>terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
>credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
>this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement. i think

>i’m screwed, by my own hand. i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
>life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
>life. docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

>afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
>helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

>i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
>not on the list. it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
>father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
>can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
>ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
>forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
>i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
>over a year, the clock is ticking. i have a unique story, but
>it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest i think sara

>is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
>could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?(0t)
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
> I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
>you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

>clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
>most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
>something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
>likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
>inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
>have a connection to it by being here.
>
> BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
>to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

>options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
>your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
>
> Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
>couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
>
> Love & Light
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
>different countries. i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
>time under my belt. took some opiates after minor surgery,
>(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
>strung out for a short time. i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
>and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos. never had taken them in the
>old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
>withdrawals from them can be. just never read up on it and never
>knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
>up and the same old pattern set in so i started reading about
>these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
>and can lead to seizures. i read more and found out this stuff
>had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
>hell out of me. it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
>taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
>worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
>centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks. this appeared
>contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
>like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
>forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
>should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center. i then went
>to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me to put me on a
>slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
>seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
>considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation. i have spent the

>last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
>i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
>but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
>have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

>looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take
>anything else. my problem really started when i got away from 12
>step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

>i now have much to lose and am terrified. withdrawals from meth
>and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
>careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
>mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
>issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
>little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
>whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

>i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
>corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
>long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
>ventured i did not have a problem. one that he hasn’t bumped into

>yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
>will. ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
>from a lame student. i never thought i’d be fighting this war
>again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
>addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
>older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
>
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> A question:
>
>
>
> These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
>i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
>hardest and most deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>————————————————————–
>
> Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New
>Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even
>more fun!
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members
>of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—
>
> Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo!
>Messenger
>
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
>media available here:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee from ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:03:41 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

benzos have zapped the dreams. wouldn’t know rem sleep if it bit me. my father has congestive heart failure, under hospice, on oxygen generator and stays at home.  he’s dying before my eyes.  i’ve squared with him but need to stay close for my mom.  she’s got the faith, positive gene pool and cannot understand addicts.  the old man was one, got sober for yrs. , relapsed, like me.  she’s angry. now i’m not on the pity party, just responding to a question.
i want to be sttrong for her but find i’m dragging her down. also,  being the only kid w/ no partner now  has me feeling  preorphan.    the stressfull job keeps pushing me and the ball keeps spinning.  i suspect i’ll take the death hard, but i ain’t getting sober like i should.  the FEAR  you perceptively point out has me paralyzed.  don’t know how fast to taper, can’t hold a taper when i get ultra stressed, soone ror later all sources will dry up and i’ll be in jail or on the streets.  that’s old at 54.  no fun in my life, very lethargic.  i once helped people , now my clients are praying for me.  never could keep up a journal.  you are very thoughtful to have asked me these things and i thank you for it. i don’t think i’m doing as well as i appear.  i think i’m hanging by a straw. my parents were happiest when i was straight, i was functional and helpful.  i just get by now.  my fault. i know today’s bottom can be tomorrow’s penthouse and i don;t wanna go there. breaking that pill has me trembling and will render me sleepless.   thanks for the encouragement. ron i’ll miss my father as many others on the list miss their lost loved ones.—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

Ron,

I am very proud of you man. Sounds like you are stepping forward. You dont sound too twisted to me. Just under the influence of a lot of fear. I think your mindset is pretty good right now and in the right direction.
Do you mind if I ask what timescale do you expect for your father? Or is it open ended?
My father passed away and frequently joins me in my sessions. He seems very pleased at my progress as I am sure your father too will be when he decides to go to the other side. I still think of my father most days and he passed on a few years before I started eboga about 6 years ago. Truth is I still feel him as being alive in some way. In many ways I know him better now that I ever did. I have been given a lot of insight. I feel a lot of love for him.
Sometimes we can only do one thing at a time but at least you are now doing something.
That idea that came up using the sandpaper sounds like a good one. Breaking a pill in half sounds groundbreaking.
Hang in there and keep going forward.
Carrying the prayer around with you is (imo) a beautiful & enriching thing to do.

Love & Light,
Lee

PS What is your dreamlife like these days? Do you remember them? Have you considered journalling? I get a lot of info & sometimes clear guidance from my dreams.

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:00:23 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 18:34:07 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
these guys all treat folks or are they just sages? curious. don’t
know all the players or their roles.. ron

I would have kamlet,

Kamlet, Kamlet, where art thou Kamlet?
Works for Mash part-time at St. Kitts, I believe.

taub,

Taub, Taub, banana-rana mau Taub?

Begin Again

glatt,

Glatt ta see me?
usually referred to as Sara

mallendi

Bwiti nganga, see google.

You have identified your biggest problem.
It is fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator
of fear I know.

This is why it could be useful even if it doesn’t kick the benzos
on its own. Aftercare is still advised.

What
will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not
afraid?
Kamlet
should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work
togther.
Then
they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi
iboga center.
Sorry
just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

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From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 9:34:07 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

these guys all treat folks or are they just sages? curious. don’t know all the players or their roles.. ron
—– Original Message —– From: <HSLotsof@aol.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

In a message dated 12/10/04 10:54:32 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Actually written by ron I think.

thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know
there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using
previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing
dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant
step.

Anyway, there is nothing to be afraid of.  And bottom line if you really have
an adverse reaction to coming off benzodiazepines you can take a small amount
after/during iboga/ibogaine and then get treated again.  Sara is an expert at
these matters.  That being said I assume no liability for any of your actions
or hers.  Where is my modern hospital?  I would have kamlet, taub, glatt,
mallendi on staff among others.  You have identified your biggest problem. It is
fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator of fear I know. What
will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not afraid? Kamlet
should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work togther. Then
they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi iboga center. Sorry
just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:55:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

My opinion is that God is the present, that going to heaven is
being present, and that forgiveness is what happens when we realize
this and let go of our patterns. Ego is the loop out of the present
that makes survival possible for humans, the ability to virtualize
and seemingly not be present, in order to plan, have relationships,
and do other things that require juxtaposing multiple moments. I
haven’t figured out how this relates to life as experienced by
other species.

Generally I like to think of humans as biological creatures, and of
all metaphysical experiences as psychological phenomena that tell
us primarily about the beings experiencing them.

Puppet Song
By Robin Williamson

Now you may have observed if you walk into a wall
you get a certain sensation of reality
when you take a look through your memory book
you may perceive a certain rhythmic regularity
the crazy things your mind gets up to when you’re away
throwing clouds of rain over brightest day

there was once a little man
he worked all day and slept all night
he looked at the sun
it didn’t seem bright, it didn’t seen right
he wondered did the world go rolling along on its own
or did some spirit move it with a black cat bone
and he set out to find the causes behind
the events in the world
and the seasons of the mind

so he asked his wife about it, and his wife said yes
come back and see me if it’s time to know less
you do too much aquestioning of the world at large
everybody knows the politician’s in charge

so he went to the Kinghouse just the next day
to see that politician with his hair dyed grey
jump down turn around blow you up or kiss the ground
trying to be the president of the land so gay
he had false pretendies, I had to love his style
bound to make some havoc with that violin smile
hey, Salvador Dali, make a walking talking something
you paint some freaky pictures, make a likeness of that man
muchos dollars if you can

so the little man asked the politician who makes the plan
who makes the plan, what happens to me
and who has the key

now you are asking me who makes the scene
his highness King Gold and Madam Silver his queen
they keep it all arustling with the dollars and pounds
and everyone knows that money makes the world go round

so the little man asked King Gold and Madam Silver
come tell me what you can
and King Gold said, lifting his golden voice from his golden bed

now money is something, it’s a basic flow
and me I am the archetype of jewels and dough
I do a lot of talking both slow and fast
but me make decisions, no of course it’s the past
for the past is something, we all have some
and universal history is a bundle of fun
now I’m getting sleepy, starting to nod
if you want to check the picture, want to check the picture
want to check it, check it with God

so the little man climbed up on a rickety ladder, to the heavenly
lands
and he shed a tear, ‘it’s all so queer and it doesn’t seem clear’

now God was sitting easy in a heavenly chair
breathing deep and lazy on the heavenly air
the little man got near him just to get right from wrong
said ‘God are you responsible for all that goes on’
God looked up from having a heavenly think
he gave that little questioner a heavenly wink, saying

‘men have coloured me with the colours of their minds
so I find
they used me as an excuse for all kinds of goofs
and for crimes of all kinds
all your so hard facts painted thinly on the void
why were you not more pleasantly employed
anything you want to do, I’m happy if you make it go right
and it’s true if it makes you happy you know it makes the
world more bright
and you shall have liberty
it always was yours anyway
you’re one of my kind, you’re an infinite mind
you make each new day
there’s nothing more I can say’

(sample at:
http://songs2.allofmp3.com/mcatalog.shtml?group=13857&album=1&albref
=7

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:30:21 -0800 The Garden
<GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
This absolutly personal  and dedicate to someone in the list
Sometimes people are afraid to let go their Ego and to surrender
to God.
They are afraid that God will reject them or will ask them to do
more than
they can do.
First God never ask you to do  more than you can do.
To be a Saint “martyr” or a Saint ” victim ” is not for everyone.

Second God is perfectly merciful because is perfect.
You can read the life of any Saint and you will find that they ALL

believe
in a
Good  Loving God always ready to forgive.at anytime, no matter
who you are
and what you’ve done.

A lot of people have a complete rejection of  the notion of God
and his
mercy.
They just have to monitor the way they think during the day and
they will
find why they reject God.

Now you have people who feel that maybee it’s something : an
higher power,
something….
They are ready to change but they are afraid to do the change.
They  feel they are stuck in something dirty, who stop them from
moving.
Each time they try to move it’s painful. The dirt like a glue,
bringing
them back.
They don’t realize that the dirty glue is already dry and
breakable.
Only bad memories of things that they had done
and most of the time was done to them when they where still
innocent and did
no right from wrong.
They can walk free now, and let go the remorse.
They will have to change some people around them
of bad influence. They will not, at the begining make big change
in their
life
but a lot of small one adapting to the flow and  to their new
beliefs
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “santaz A(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

___________________________________________________________________

___
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:31:32 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: The Garden [mailto:GardenRestaurant@comcast.net]
Sent: 10 December 2004 17:26
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN

Hi Nick !!
Always a pleasure .
You wrote :

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control,
* Exactly, that the point. If I know, that my brain can perform
in a better
way, I will try to take over the control of my mind and not let
my instinct
or my craving brain run the show.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy
* been there, done it , been there and guess what  no much
positive  result.
Stopped my experiment and research .

Fair enough.

You wrote :
You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

* “You are your Ego and if I uderstood you from previous E-mail : You are
God. ”

Yeah, it’s true, man. You are simultaneously the Ego – Little Me – and the
thing that Little Me concieves of as God. There’s a two-way traffic – Little
Me, the Ego, seeking Truth/Oneness/God/whatever; and the already
transcendent Truth/Oneness/God/whatever seeking to be totally the Ego. Shit,
I would never have believed that one, but that is what I saw when my head
was broken open. When I first took a big dose of iboga I spent five plus
hours fully conscious of the reality that I was never gonna die. I mean, I
was raving, practically foaming at the mouth in amazement at being
confronted with this as an actual physical reality. I saw a guy called
Bernie Prior a few months back and he talked about when he first realized he
was gonna live forever. He laughed for hours on end. Drove from London to
Bristol and couldn’t stop the whole way. You can’t stop, man. And it’s true.
For sure, it’s quite a journey trying to point this out to people. They
freak. Thirty, forty years of God playing at being mortal goes in deep.
Doesn’t move just like that.

Look in to the gaps, man. Look into the gaps between the mind assessing the
idea that You might be God and it dumping the idea. See the chain of
protective thoughts. If you want to. Otherwise I think you’re great anyway.

with love

Nick

You are absolutely right , being a God, you can’t surrender your Ego, it
will be disastrous. Now if you are only a man, you can do what
ever you want
with it. Clean it, downsize it, expande it till it blows , change it, play
with it, beat it or give it away to charity.Give it away to your
girl friend
or boyfriend. Give it away to an Higher power, sell it for power
, money or
for sex. It’s your Ego after all.!!

– ….It a new age nonsense
* (IMO)not realy new, been done for thousand of years by believers in the
Tao, Buddha Vishnou, Krisna and so non and so on… It could be a
non sense
but as you know I believe in absurd..

-You wrote
– You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control.
* you absolutely right. You now I have a craving brain and strong instinct
so if I dont control my stupid mind I will eat t two pounds of fine
chocolate  that my mother send me, open a six pack an go hunting
for a nice
tourist ass. That my Cave man brain talking: I am to instinctive
for myself
and for people around me .
So now,   cave man no fool, knows tools and know better.

You wrote :
Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to
create, seeking
to express.
* I agree, that the point,. Sometimes you need a good change of life, or
change an entire beliefs system, or some values , or to get some
new  tools.

-Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion.
* I am not so sure about the expansion That your belief and I  absolutly
respect it…  I don’t grasp the concept of body.
Are you refering body mind and soul ? Expansion is another concept a bit
abstract for me now.

You wrote :
Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the
unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it.

*You are right one more time. I was reading the life of Padre Pio
and Saint
Francis. It’s amazing how much they have to fight their own
instinct, (will,
human craving brain). To surrender on a daily base to their God.
Trust me they have very good reason to get very pissed , specialy at their
own church.

Warriors, warriors we call ourselves.
We fight for splendid virtue,
for sublime wisdom,
therefore we call ourselves warrior.
Aunguttara Nikaya

You wrote :
That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy.
* Who said so ? Maybee they are in the ” new age bullshit” because they
where very unhealthy to start with ?/!.

Nick, you wrote :
They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

* Looking at the way people choose to govern themselve, their familly  and
their country
I realy believe that they actualy enjoy  and appreciate a lot
the need for
unconsciousness an imbalance but they still are far from greatest
awareness.
God Bless
Francis

– To surrender your will to a loving higher power.
Then you don’t have  to fight anymore : encrease level of
Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– Accept to be powerless on about everything 🙂
boyfriend, boss, familly member….
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class,
ceramics
class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe.
Less fears,
feeling of ” to be part of ” to be useful encrease level of  Serotonin
and
decrease Dopamine

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control, trying to make a balance in
something which
seeks to go out of balance for a while. You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy. You can’t surrender “your Ego to
some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why
the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to
create, seeking
to express. Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion. It’s not often asking to be balanced by mental activity and
fiddling about with its systems. Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the
unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it. That’s
why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of
unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

with love

Nick

– to get rid of the burdain of self guilt and self pity: confessions,
spiritual cleansing, inventory, amends.
encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
– humility
Getting read of the EGO . You don’t have to prove anything, to
argue, to
fight …encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
-Patience
Same here,
– Simplicity
If you   live in simplicity. You are killing the desire to
accumulate: less
dopamine and energy spent in the
” rat race ” Fewers enemies….more control on your life, more time
available to enjoy
– To live in the present. encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease
Dopamine. No more worries and repents .

– Doct ignorance : I know that I don’t know shit 🙂 so even this list
is
maybee wrong, maybee not.?/!
-meditation
-prayer
-comtemplation
– relaxation
– music ( relaxing)
-warm bath
– Special breathing
-biofeedback
-auto hypnosis
-hypnosis
-acupuncture
-massage
– Food ( absolutly natural avoid carbs and sugar )
– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of  tryptophan.
Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of endorphine. No more over
stimulation
– Mantra
– Taking care of a persone, animal or garden.
– sex
In general, avoid any form  of unecessary stress
I am serious 😉 you can teach your brain how to balance
dopamine  with
serotonin and build a new ” landscape ”
Everything in this list  is working in  rebalancing chemical
deficiencies
God Bless
Francis


—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of
your
drug abuse

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 8:10:52 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Schmooly, do you have any comment on gabapentin in benzo w/d?

http://www.cpa-
apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/April/Letters3.asp

“…Due to her instability and continued benzodiazepine use, she
was declined entry into residential addiction treatment. She
refused carbemazepine because of potential side effects. She
instead started on 200 mg of gabapentin 3 times daily. Initially as
her symptoms of anxiety, tremor, and affective lability rapidly
decreased, she described gabapentin as <93>feeling like
alprazolam.<94>
Clonazepam was then tapered off. Within 3 weeks of admission, she
was benzodiazepine-free. The subjective, alprazolam-like effect
faded, but anxious symptoms remained controlled, with little
craving for benzodiazepines or other substances, including
cigarettes. She denied any adverse effects from the medication,
except for short-term sedation. The total daily dose of gabapentin
remained low (600 mg daily). Off benzodiazepines, her mental state
improved, allowing discharge from hospital and commencement of
outpatient addiction treatment. Two months later, she remained
abstinent.”

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:08:33 -0800 Schmoolyboy@aol.com wrote:
I an sure if kamlet and mollendi had millions they would give it.
You know
that those who work this field don’t get rich. They just work
hard. When you
find someone with millions to open the k and m Ibo hospital, let
me know. I will
send all my friend and Ron too.

Concerned about your privacy? Follow this link to get
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] NiX tr|b3s
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:12:02 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but this “positive tribes” stuff is bullshit to me…..
<snip>
…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with everything. Can’t just let you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse, whatever happens. Has to be going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I hate that shit.

I’d rather be headed in a positive direction than a negative one, probably because I’ve spent most of my life going in a negative direction – and it was fucking miserable. It was a great learning experience, but today I do believe in bettering myself and making life bearable to those around me, which is a ‘positive’ thing. Choosing to surround myself with like minded people seems a logical choice, eh?

‘just for today’… I’m all for a positive tribe.

but in the end, negative or positive it is all just god experiencing itself thru us.

can’t have won without the ‘udder’.

om mani padme hum (or something like that)

_.dh

From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:08:33 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I an sure if kamlet and mollendi had millions they would give it. You know that those who work this field don’t get rich. They just work hard. When you find someone with millions to open the k and m Ibo hospital, let me know. I will send all my friend and Ron too.

From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:00:28 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Nick !!

You wrote :

. All
my life I was immersed in Jesus – school, parents, the whole trip. Who
wouldn’t want to act it out? It’s fucking great!

*Same here, man. Seven years in catholic boarding school  can  keep you away
from spirituality for a long time.

But it just bores the living shit out of me when people try to make some
kind of religion out of this stuff.

* I dind’ t mean it 🙁

Like positivity is some kind of panacea.
*……..Well I thought so.. 🙁

You can’t go on sugar-coating shit forever. People won’t swallow it and at
some point you have to expose yourself more.

That’s all I’m saying.

* Me too…That all I’m saying  🙂
It’s a huge difference between spirituality and religion and at some point I
have too , to expose myself more.

Nick , we are different but we complete each other 🙂 We should put a show
togheter 🙂

God bless
Francis

Hi Nick, I know you or your writing at least for years
here 🙂 so I have a much less angry response then I’d
have to someone else, because when you say something
in your face or high handed you stop in a few messages
or I think I at least believe I know you’re coming
from a positive place, sorry I didn’t mean to use the
word positive 😉

Why on earth would you tell anyone who has finally
made such huge progress forward that everything
they’re doing doesn’t matter? I’m sure you can argue
philosophy or meaning of life or whatnot and justify
all that, but then why does it even matter if you’re
on drugs in the first place, it doesn’t to anyone
except for yourself or your family does it. It isn’t
like I get the idea “god” cares or has some objection
to it.

You and Lee both have this same habit of coming on
like god above or below or in the mirror or anywhere
you want to see “god” let me rephrase that 😉 you
have this habit of coming on like you know everything
everyone has ever gone through and have all the
answers, then the next message you’ll reply that you
don’t really have any of the answers and I’m not even
knocking that because it’s like this entire group of
you two, Patrick, ibogaine project with Francis, a
whole lot of people who are saying the same thing in
different ways.

To give Lee a huge amount of respect, when you first
got here Lee you were totally full of yourself 😉 but
when people said that, instead of arguing with them
you thought about it and stopped 🙂 That made me
listen to what you might say a lot more and thanks for
that Lee because I enjoy your messages very much, you
changed your tone a lot  🙂

Nick, you and Lee are usually coming more from this
messiah tone, I think maybe it’s that neither one of
you has ever been a drug addict and yes I know this is
where you explain how we all have pain and you’re
fighting with cigarettes or whatnot 😉 but Lee
usually says things that are kind to people, while you
take something that Randy finds useful and knock it
all down. Why say that Nick?

Hi Carla,

Hey, what am i knocking down? I said all this pseudo-positivity stuff I
find
a drag, that’s all. And what’s wrong with being the Messiah? I am the
fucking Messiah! What’s wrong with that? It’s a great trip being Jesus.
All
my life I was immersed in Jesus – school, parents, the whole trip. Who
wouldn’t want to act it out? It’s fucking great!

I’m having such a strong reaction because what Randy
said is nearly exactly what I found usefl when I
finally got off heroin and methadone and stayed off.
Positive tribes! This place was the one place I ever
found that was useful to me and not judgmental and I
could talk to people who went through the same things
I did or were going through them and not be judged and
then my other positive tribes were mostly getting away
from drug addicts and going to yoga, taking classes at
school, being away from people who talk about drugs
all day and think about them. I needed all of this and
think I still do and yes sometime I did need to go to
a 12 step meeting to at least remind myself that maybe
I didn’t, because it wasn’t helping me, but at the
same time it did help me to at least sit there for a
hour and remind myself, most of all I needed a place
where I felt safe and not like I would be judged and
felt that people did really understand and care which
I found here.

Why would you possibly tell someone who has made so
much progress that everything they are doing is wrong,
that’s what I needed to say. Maybe it’s wrong for you,
right now and perfect for him. Maybe it will be right
for you tomorrow.

Look Carla, if I’ve upset you I apologize. For sure it’s totally great to
be
able to replace life-affirming behaviour for life-hating and it’s kept
many
people alive. If you need it then take it for you, I do the same when I
need
it. But it just bores the living shit out of me when people try to make
some
kind of religion out of this stuff. Like positivity is some kind of
panacea.
You can’t go on sugar-coating shit forever. People won’t swallow it and at
some point you have to expose yourself more. That’s all I’m saying.

love

Nick

Love to all
Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
[mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer
of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I
think being part of a tribe
ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga
or sex or music or what
ever soothes your soul is important too. Being
intelligent beings we tend to
pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do
and what does it matter?
Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to
meetings and therapy
and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT
every chance I get and
try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit.
I can’t allow myself to
obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry.
There may be something
to these levels for some people, I just know that
for me, after Ibogaine,
all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of
it. I like your twist
on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but
this “positive tribes”
stuff is bullshit to me…..
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA ,
churches, yoga class,
ceramics

class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list

our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ”
herd” or tribe.

…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with
everything. Can’t just let
you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse,
whatever happens. Has to be
going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I
hate that shit.

with love

Nick

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From: Schmoolyboy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Ron Jim to Ron(OT)
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:00:27 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron, I don’t want to sound too harsh to you but you are starting to sound like a broken record. I am sure you will write the group with some apologetic diatrab.

caring professional have contacted you. Several of them . They have offered you  help. Some for free. Exactly what you have asked for. There are many good knowledgeable people who have offered you help on this list.

The question is then…

Why are you still singing “oh poor me ” instead of driving a few hours and getting started on the slow slow slow taper you want so badly?

Talk is cheap. If nothing changes, guess what … nothing will change. Act now. People die while waiting for a miracle to happen. If you pray to god to help you dig a hole, you had better bring a shovel.

Help has been offered. Now go and get it or be still.

From: Ms Iboga <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] benzo pre/post care- On Violence & Fight Club
Date: December 10, 2004 at 5:34:09 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

For me, I don’t know think violence is necessary but
it’s very important
that one can feel its usual precursor – anger.
Anger’s the natural reaction
to some form of invasion and if it’s felt in the
body then you’ll feel more
whole. In bioenergetics anger is called the “healing
emotion.” It doesn’t
have to lead to violence. You can put anger out
without hitting people.

* Nick, I agree completely.  In fact, one of my
favourite ways to get anger/violence out of my system
is to get off my duff and dance all night.

– how can you really know yourself unless you’ve
been
in a fight?

Yeah, but you could say this about anything. It’s
just glamourizing
violence, which is attractive to me but I try to
move on from it.

* I would have to disagree…I don’t think Fight Club
glamourized violence at all.  I think the main point
was that human beings are repressing certain parts of
their nature.  This unhealthy repression can lead to
all manners of illness, both physical and mental.

I’d say capitalism is pretty close to
hunter-gatherer.

Huh?  I don’t see the similarity at
all….Hunter-gatherers were about community, shared
experiences, and survival of the clan- in essence, it
is a doctrine of inclusion; capitalism is about the
prosperity of the individual(or several individuals at
the top of the pyramid) , and usually at the expense
of the less fortunate- it is a doctrine of exclusion.

Julie

In the words of Tyler Durden: ” Man, I see in
fight
club the strongest and smartest men who’ve ever
lived.
I see all this potential, and I see squandering.
God
damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting
tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has
us
chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so
we
can buy shit we don’t need. We’re the middle
children
of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no
Great
War. No Great Depression. Our Great War’s a
spiritual
war… our Great Depression is our lives. We’ve
all
been raised on television to believe that one day
we’d
all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock
stars.
But we won’t. And we’re slowly learning that fact.
And
we’re very, very pissed off. ”

__________________________________
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Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
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From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] they want to dull their senses? What nerve!
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:42:13 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

See what I’m talking about in KY? There is a huge problem down there. Coal mines and growing dope are all they have. AND an 80 mg. oxy goes for up to 100 dollars. The only methadone clinics are in Lexington and Louisville. More than a hundred miles from most of those places where the economy is severely busted. What are these people supposed to do? The waiting list for the only good clinic in Lexington is 2 years just to get in to see them. IBOGAINE   IBOGAINE    IBOGAINE           Randy

From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:33:47 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Nick,
I believe I completly get your don’t lobotomize me with all your happy(only) horseshit stance.  However, for many currently here, I don’t know that balance is really the right word because they may be seeking something that can help keep them from slipping back into the worst downward spiral of a pit that drags them to a point of despair and destruction of self & others that maybe the likes have never been paralelled before. Is a yoga class or NA/AA group “balance” for all that? No way possible, but it it’s what keeps some from the pit…so be it. You also have to remember these people are physically & emotionally coming from a starting point of wore down, drained, not much left. This is much different than being addicted to a legal, available, inexpensive, socially tolerable thing as cigarettes.  But I do feel for your ordeal and possible pain.
People get what they need to get when they need to get it.  I understand out of all unpleasantness comes the chance for change and growth. For right now I’d rather pick daisies! For them that don’t like it.. well let me bend over and get this daisy.
On the supplementation I agree that there is a point of excess.  I also don’t care for the idea of taking any of the amino acids individually for any length of time.  I was taking the l-theanine for 4 days.  I got mild nose bleeding and my chiro said it was wacking out half my organs.  I stopped.  I know what I need is to get my endorphines going again.  I got my treadmill today.  I have been doing my cacoa and protein,carb fat drink which has got my seratonin much better.   I believe our food is our medicine, However, first your absorption has to be up to par and then there has to be nutrients and enzymes left in the (even healthy) foods we’re sold. That’s how it is(not) in the U.S. anyway. Eating healthy and being healthy is not common knowledge.  Unless one has ventured out to educate oneself this info is lacking in most.
I also think the addicted brain also has that compulsive component to it.  So if someone is being offered( the idea of )the magic elixir to make things right, many will go for it.  I think most of all we are looking for continued hope.
Julie, you have been writing some really good stuff.
Lee, I wanted to thank you for the book. I hold that psalm in very high regard.  It pretty much says it all.  Will pose other ?’s to you in the future.
Nick I don’t really know you or even have a good sense of you but I close with high regard and respect for you.                  Martee
—– Original Message —– From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:21 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 15:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of
SEROTONIN

> I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense.

I’m sure Francis and a few others might disagree.

> You have to allow the imbalance,
> allow yourself to get crazy.

Does this also apply to schizophrenics??  Or manic
depressives?

Hi Julie, the point is I’m not trying to create an all-encompassing belief
system, that is the prerogative of the fear-dominated mind. For sure,
containment can seem useful within the context of therapy. But who’s to say
what a schizophrenic really is, it’s just a label, and who’s to say what
this schizophrenic “needs.” To mood stabilize a schizophrenic with drugs and
then slowly reintegrate the shadow aspects of the ego in a controlled
therapeutic setting might be a strategy that makes sense…but, really, who
the fuck actually knows? Actually no-one.

> You can’t surrender your Ego to some higher
> power.You are your Ego. It’s just new age
> nonsense.

I too believe in the adage :”If you want to see God,
take a look in the mirror.”

Take a look into the unknown, more like. Take a look towards the North,
symbolic direction of chaos and the unknown.

“Good weather cometh from the North” – Job 37:22

with love

Nick

> You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by
> fiddling about with what you
> eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying
> to keep it all in
> control. Trying to decide how things should be.
> Better to check out why the
> levels are moving around, what the imbalance is
> seeking to create, seeking
> to express.

Sometimes levels will move around due to certain
predicatable behaviour patterns- diet, excessive drug
use, sleeping patterns, etc…  Do you really think
this is the mind seeking “chaos”?  More like the body
reacting to all the shit you’re doing to it…

> That’s why people
> who are into all the new age bullshit about
> balancing things are usually so
> unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need
> of unconsciousness for
> chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater
> awareness.

I agree…BUT, I don’t see any need to bash someone’s
personal belief system, especially if that belief
system is the ONE thing that might get them through
the day.  I don’t consider myself “New Agey”, but I
certainly wouldn’t emphatically dismiss everything
Francis has said.  Allowing your mind to have free
reign, especially during periods of stress or
unhappiness, might result in injury or harm to your
body.  I believe in exercising periodic self-control-
the chaos (which I also embrace) will naturally come
in waves throughout your life.  Life is a bit of a
pendulum, swinging through the darkness and the light-
both of which are NATURAL, and not to be feared.

Julie

__________________________________________________
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From: knowone knowwhere <kn0m0n3@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:30:43 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?language=english&type=&article_id=218392092

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392428
— Vigilius Haufniensis
<thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Online Neuroscience Tutorial
How does cocaine work? How about THC?
Amphetamines? X? Ketamine? How does Alzheimer’s
cause memory loss? Why do people with Parkinson’s
get the shakes?
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/10/22/05038/833
Membrane potentials, action potentials, and neurons
(Science)

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/12/6/145350/399
Second in a series : How neurons transmit
information (Science)

ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=clear.gif

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine]Out of topic bullshit about God
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:30:21 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This absolutly personal  and dedicate to someone in the list
Sometimes people are afraid to let go their Ego and to surrender to God.
They are afraid that God will reject them or will ask them to do more than
they can do.
First God never ask you to do  more than you can do.
To be a Saint “martyr” or a Saint ” victim ” is not for everyone.

Second God is perfectly merciful because is perfect.
You can read the life of any Saint and you will find that they ALL believe
in a
Good  Loving God always ready to forgive.at anytime, no matter who you are
and what you’ve done.

A lot of people have a complete rejection of  the notion of God and his
mercy.
They just have to monitor the way they think during the day and they will
find why they reject God.

Now you have people who feel that maybee it’s something : an higher power,
something….
They are ready to change but they are afraid to do the change.
They  feel they are stuck in something dirty, who stop them from moving.
Each time they try to move it’s painful. The dirt like a glue, bringing
them back.
They don’t realize that the dirty glue is already dry and breakable.
Only bad memories of things that they had done
and most of the time was done to them when they where still innocent and did
no right from wrong.
They can walk free now, and let go the remorse.
They will have to change some people around them
of bad influence. They will not, at the begining make big change in their
life
but a lot of small one adapting to the flow and  to their new beliefs
God bless
Francis

—– Original Message —–
From: “santaz A(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “Vigilius Haufniensis” <thehatefulnerd@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Online Neuroscience Tutorial
Date: December 10, 2004 at 6:21:28 PM EST
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <elite_sociopath@yahoogroups.com>, <PhilPsych@yahoogroups.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Online Neuroscience Tutorial
How does cocaine work? How about THC? Amphetamines? X? Ketamine? How does Alzheimer’s cause memory loss? Why do people with Parkinson’s get the shakes?
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/10/22/05038/833
Membrane potentials, action potentials, and neurons (Science)

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/12/6/145350/399
Second in a series : How neurons transmit information (Science)

From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 4:12:37 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like that one – don’t they go together though i.e. the ego complementing the soul?

The Garden <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net> wrote:
Easing God Out

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H”
To:
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

>
> > http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibogaine
>
>
>
>
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>
>

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http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick
Date: December 10, 2004 at 3:48:49 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Carla Barnes [mailto:carlambarnes@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 16:59
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick

Hi Nick, I know you or your writing at least for years
here 🙂 so I have a much less angry response then I’d
have to someone else, because when you say something
in your face or high handed you stop in a few messages
or I think I at least believe I know you’re coming
from a positive place, sorry I didn’t mean to use the
word positive 😉

Why on earth would you tell anyone who has finally
made such huge progress forward that everything
they’re doing doesn’t matter? I’m sure you can argue
philosophy or meaning of life or whatnot and justify
all that, but then why does it even matter if you’re
on drugs in the first place, it doesn’t to anyone
except for yourself or your family does it. It isn’t
like I get the idea “god” cares or has some objection
to it.

You and Lee both have this same habit of coming on
like god above or below or in the mirror or anywhere
you want to see “god” let me rephrase that 😉 you
have this habit of coming on like you know everything
everyone has ever gone through and have all the
answers, then the next message you’ll reply that you
don’t really have any of the answers and I’m not even
knocking that because it’s like this entire group of
you two, Patrick, ibogaine project with Francis, a
whole lot of people who are saying the same thing in
different ways.

To give Lee a huge amount of respect, when you first
got here Lee you were totally full of yourself 😉 but
when people said that, instead of arguing with them
you thought about it and stopped 🙂 That made me
listen to what you might say a lot more and thanks for
that Lee because I enjoy your messages very much, you
changed your tone a lot  🙂

Nick, you and Lee are usually coming more from this
messiah tone, I think maybe it’s that neither one of
you has ever been a drug addict and yes I know this is
where you explain how we all have pain and you’re
fighting with cigarettes or whatnot 😉 but Lee
usually says things that are kind to people, while you
take something that Randy finds useful and knock it
all down. Why say that Nick?

Hi Carla,

Hey, what am i knocking down? I said all this pseudo-positivity stuff I find
a drag, that’s all. And what’s wrong with being the Messiah? I am the
fucking Messiah! What’s wrong with that? It’s a great trip being Jesus. All
my life I was immersed in Jesus – school, parents, the whole trip. Who
wouldn’t want to act it out? It’s fucking great!

I’m having such a strong reaction because what Randy
said is nearly exactly what I found usefl when I
finally got off heroin and methadone and stayed off.
Positive tribes! This place was the one place I ever
found that was useful to me and not judgmental and I
could talk to people who went through the same things
I did or were going through them and not be judged and
then my other positive tribes were mostly getting away
from drug addicts and going to yoga, taking classes at
school, being away from people who talk about drugs
all day and think about them. I needed all of this and
think I still do and yes sometime I did need to go to
a 12 step meeting to at least remind myself that maybe
I didn’t, because it wasn’t helping me, but at the
same time it did help me to at least sit there for a
hour and remind myself, most of all I needed a place
where I felt safe and not like I would be judged and
felt that people did really understand and care which
I found here.

Why would you possibly tell someone who has made so
much progress that everything they are doing is wrong,
that’s what I needed to say. Maybe it’s wrong for you,
right now and perfect for him. Maybe it will be right
for you tomorrow.

Look Carla, if I’ve upset you I apologize. For sure it’s totally great to be
able to replace life-affirming behaviour for life-hating and it’s kept many
people alive. If you need it then take it for you, I do the same when I need
it. But it just bores the living shit out of me when people try to make some
kind of religion out of this stuff. Like positivity is some kind of panacea.
You can’t go on sugar-coating shit forever. People won’t swallow it and at
some point you have to expose yourself more. That’s all I’m saying.

love

Nick

Love to all
Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
[mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer
of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I
think being part of a tribe
ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga
or sex or music or what
ever soothes your soul is important too. Being
intelligent beings we tend to
pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do
and what does it matter?
Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to
meetings and therapy
and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT
every chance I get and
try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit.
I can’t allow myself to
obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry.
There may be something
to these levels for some people, I just know that
for me, after Ibogaine,
all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of
it. I like your twist
on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but
this “positive tribes”
stuff is bullshit to me…..
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA ,
churches, yoga class,
ceramics

class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list

our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ”
herd” or tribe.

…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with
everything. Can’t just let
you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse,
whatever happens. Has to be
going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I
hate that shit.

with love

Nick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 3:31:03 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Easing God Out

—– Original Message —–
From: “D H” <dave@phantom.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibogaine

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From: “santaz A\(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] (d-finG e-Goo)
Date: December 10, 2004 at 3:21:15 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

non-ego

<psychology> The union of being and relation as
distinguished from, and contrasted with, the ego. See
Ego.

ego

Origin: L, I] The conscious and permanent subject of
all psychical experiences, whether held to be directly
known or the product of reflective thought; opposed to
non-ego.

Source: Websters Dictionary

(01 Mar 1998)

http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?H+reflex

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From: D H <dave@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 2:44:16 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ibogaine

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From: “santaz A\(id” <santasacid659@yahoo.ca>
Subject: [Ibogaine] Go E Go
Date: December 10, 2004 at 2:40:06 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ego&r=67

______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: “The Garden” <GardenRestaurant@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 12:25:54 PM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick !!
Always a pleasure .
You wrote :

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control,
* Exactly, that the point. If I know, that my brain can perform in a better
way, I will try to take over the control of my mind and not let my instinct
or my craving brain run the show.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy
* been there, done it , been there and guess what  no much positive  result.
Stopped my experiment and research .

You wrote :
You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

* “You are your Ego and if I uderstood you from previous E-mail : You are
God. ”
You are absolutely right , being a God, you can’t surrender your Ego, it
will be disastrous. Now if you are only a man, you can do what ever you want
with it. Clean it, downsize it, expande it till it blows , change it, play
with it, beat it or give it away to charity.Give it away to your girl friend
or boyfriend. Give it away to an Higher power, sell it for power , money or
for sex. It’s your Ego after all.!!

– ….It a new age nonsense
* (IMO)not realy new, been done for thousand of years by believers in the
Tao, Buddha Vishnou, Krisna and so non and so on… It could be a non sense
but as you know I believe in absurd..

-You wrote
– You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control.
* you absolutely right. You now I have a craving brain and strong instinct
so if I dont control my stupid mind I will eat t two pounds of fine
chocolate  that my mother send me, open a six pack an go hunting for a nice
tourist ass. That my Cave man brain talking: I am to instinctive for myself
and for people around me .
So now,   cave man no fool, knows tools and know better.

You wrote :
Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to create, seeking
to express.
* I agree, that the point,. Sometimes you need a good change of life, or
change an entire beliefs system, or some values , or to get some new  tools.

-Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion.
* I am not so sure about the expansion That your belief and I  absolutly
respect it…  I don’t grasp the concept of body.
Are you refering body mind and soul ? Expansion is another concept a bit
abstract for me now.

You wrote :
Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it.

*You are right one more time. I was reading the life of Padre Pio and Saint
Francis. It’s amazing how much they have to fight their own instinct, (will,
human craving brain). To surrender on a daily base to their God.
Trust me they have very good reason to get very pissed , specialy at their
own church.

Warriors, warriors we call ourselves.
We fight for splendid virtue,
for sublime wisdom,
therefore we call ourselves warrior.
Aunguttara Nikaya

You wrote :
That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy.
* Who said so ? Maybee they are in the ” new age bullshit” because they
where very unhealthy to start with ?/!.

Nick, you wrote :
They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

* Looking at the way people choose to govern themselve, their familly  and
their country
I realy believe that they actualy enjoy  and appreciate a lot the need for
unconsciousness an imbalance but they still are far from greatest awareness.
God Bless
Francis

– To surrender your will to a loving higher power.
Then you don’t have  to fight anymore : encrease level of
Serotonin and
decrease Dopamine
– Accept to be powerless on about everything 🙂
boyfriend, boss, familly member….
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA , churches, yoga class,
ceramics
class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list …
our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ” herd” or tribe.
Less fears,
feeling of ” to be part of ” to be useful encrease level of  Serotonin
and
decrease Dopamine

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense. It’s just the mind
keeping everything in control, trying to make a balance in something which
seeks to go out of balance for a while. You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy. You can’t surrender “your Ego to some higher
power.” You are your Ego. It’s just new age nonsense.

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by fiddling about with what
you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be. Better to check out why
the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is seeking to create, seeking
to express. Your body is a totally dynamic system constantly seeking its
expansion. It’s not often asking to be balanced by mental activity and
fiddling about with its systems. Generally speaking, you can stabilize
someone by adjusting stuff for a while, but at some point the unconscious
desire for the imbalance to manifest will rise above it. That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about balancing things are usually
so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater awareness.

with love

Nick

– to get rid of the burdain of self guilt and self pity: confessions,
spiritual cleansing, inventory, amends.
encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
– humility
Getting read of the EGO . You don’t have to prove anything, to
argue, to
fight …encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease Dopamine
-Patience
Same here,
– Simplicity
If you   live in simplicity. You are killing the desire to
accumulate: less
dopamine and energy spent in the
” rat race ” Fewers enemies….more control on your life, more time
available to enjoy
– To live in the present. encrease level of  Serotonin and decrease
Dopamine. No more worries and repents .

– Doct ignorance : I know that I don’t know shit 🙂 so even this list
is
maybee wrong, maybee not.?/!
-meditation
-prayer
-comtemplation
– relaxation
– music ( relaxing)
-warm bath
– Special breathing
-biofeedback
-auto hypnosis
-hypnosis
-acupuncture
-massage
– Food ( absolutly natural avoid carbs and sugar )
– TV destruction ( mandatory ) increase level of  tryptophan.
Bettter if you
smash it bare hands  . Exeptional release of endorphine. No more over
stimulation
– Mantra
– Taking care of a persone, animal or garden.
– sex
In general, avoid any form  of unecessary stress
I am serious 😉 you can teach your brain how to balance dopamine  with
serotonin and build a new ” landscape ”
Everything in this list  is working in  rebalancing chemical
deficiencies
God Bless
Francis


—– Original Message —–
From: “Ms Iboga” <ms_iboga@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] self TEST for SEROTONIN deficiency as root of
your
drug abuse

Thank you, Francis,

As I suspected, I am pretty much serotonin deficient.
I also believe I am dopamine over-abundant, which
explains why drugs like coke and speed never really
did it for me- just made me edgy, crazy and nervous.

once again, muchas gracias…

love Julie

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

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From: “m.finman” <mafinman@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 12:18:39 PM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ron,
Last night on abc primetime(i believe) they did a piece on youths committing suicide after ingesting paxil and zoloft.  The dr. expert who exposed the drug co’s lack of serious testing and renaming withdrawl, discontinuance something(i forgetand representing these families is Dr. Joseph Glenmullen.  He is also involved with this lawsuit. He has a book called the antidepresant handbook. This one girl stopped in three months total, by cutting pills and then  liquifying them and using a dropper.  I do not personally know this guys reputation or protocol.  I googled his name and it came right up.  Maybe there’s something there to help you feel more comfortable with how you are going about helping yourself.  I am unfarmiliar with any pills other than the ones from the 60’s your basic ups and downers. After that I had no desire to mix pills with my methedone even though everyone else was.  So even though the pills discussed here may not be the ones you are on, i’m thinking there may be some info to assist you in your quest to help yourself. I know i just repeated myself but there’s a reason for that.
It also sounds like your fear is also of what is to come or pass.  And again if you are able to maintain for this minute, this hour, this day (which I believe you do) then your fear is an illusion and a hinderance to your mental, emotional, physical and spiritual state.  You need a plan that be it slow progress is still progress and be at peace with what you are doing (going in the right direction). Functioning from a more calm centered place.   I only have one more thing to say for now.  Sara Sara SaraSaraSAraSaRASARA.
Martee

—– Original Message —– From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

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From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] for Nick
Date: December 10, 2004 at 11:59:12 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Nick, I know you or your writing at least for years
here 🙂 so I have a much less angry response then I’d
have to someone else, because when you say something
in your face or high handed you stop in a few messages
or I think I at least believe I know you’re coming
from a positive place, sorry I didn’t mean to use the
word positive 😉

Why on earth would you tell anyone who has finally
made such huge progress forward that everything
they’re doing doesn’t matter? I’m sure you can argue
philosophy or meaning of life or whatnot and justify
all that, but then why does it even matter if you’re
on drugs in the first place, it doesn’t to anyone
except for yourself or your family does it. It isn’t
like I get the idea “god” cares or has some objection
to it.

You and Lee both have this same habit of coming on
like god above or below or in the mirror or anywhere
you want to see “god” let me rephrase that 😉 you
have this habit of coming on like you know everything
everyone has ever gone through and have all the
answers, then the next message you’ll reply that you
don’t really have any of the answers and I’m not even
knocking that because it’s like this entire group of
you two, Patrick, ibogaine project with Francis, a
whole lot of people who are saying the same thing in
different ways.

To give Lee a huge amount of respect, when you first
got here Lee you were totally full of yourself 😉 but
when people said that, instead of arguing with them
you thought about it and stopped 🙂 That made me
listen to what you might say a lot more and thanks for
that Lee because I enjoy your messages very much, you
changed your tone a lot  🙂

Nick, you and Lee are usually coming more from this
messiah tone, I think maybe it’s that neither one of
you has ever been a drug addict and yes I know this is
where you explain how we all have pain and you’re
fighting with cigarettes or whatnot 😉 but Lee
usually says things that are kind to people, while you
take something that Randy finds useful and knock it
all down. Why say that Nick?

I’m having such a strong reaction because what Randy
said is nearly exactly what I found usefl when I
finally got off heroin and methadone and stayed off.
Positive tribes! This place was the one place I ever
found that was useful to me and not judgmental and I
could talk to people who went through the same things
I did or were going through them and not be judged and
then my other positive tribes were mostly getting away
from drug addicts and going to yoga, taking classes at
school, being away from people who talk about drugs
all day and think about them. I needed all of this and
think I still do and yes sometime I did need to go to
a 12 step meeting to at least remind myself that maybe
I didn’t, because it wasn’t helping me, but at the
same time it did help me to at least sit there for a
hour and remind myself, most of all I needed a place
where I felt safe and not like I would be judged and
felt that people did really understand and care which
I found here.

Why would you possibly tell someone who has made so
much progress that everything they are doing is wrong,
that’s what I needed to say. Maybe it’s wrong for you,
right now and perfect for him. Maybe it will be right
for you tomorrow.

Love to all
Carla B

— Nick Sandberg <nick227@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

—–Original Message—–
From: BiscuitBoy714@aol.com
[mailto:BiscuitBoy714@aol.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 13:25
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] for Nick natural enhancer
of SEROTONIN

Nick I agree with most of what you said but I
think being part of a tribe
ie. 12 step, and the list or whatever and doing yoga
or sex or music or what
ever soothes your soul is important too. Being
intelligent beings we tend to
pick fly shit out of pepper sometimes. Hard to do
and what does it matter?
Me, I’ll stick to the basics, eat my vitamins, go to
meetings and therapy
and keep my head in recovery. Then……..ROCK OUT
every chance I get and
try and not worry about all the extraneous bullshit.
I can’t allow myself to
obsess too much or I’ll never do anything but worry.
There may be something
to these levels for some people, I just know that
for me, after Ibogaine,
all I need is for life to go on to take advantage of
it. I like your twist
on things.            Randy

Hi Randy,

Yeah, I like you too, man. Tribes are great but
this “positive tribes”
stuff is bullshit to me…..
– to be a part of positive ” Tribes ” NA ,
churches, yoga class,
ceramics

class, swimming club, volonteers, Ibogaine list

our ancient craving brain need to belong to a ”
herd” or tribe.

…it’s like the mind has to fuck around with
everything. Can’t just let
you be totally in a tribe, for better or worse,
whatever happens. Has to be
going in some “positive” direction somewhere. God, I
hate that shit.

with love

Nick

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail – now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 11:30:42 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 12/10/04 10:54:32 AM, myeboga@yahoo.co.uk writes:

Actually written by ron I think.

thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know
there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using
previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing
dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant
step.

Anyway, there is nothing to be afraid of.  And bottom line if you really have
an adverse reaction to coming off benzodiazepines you can take a small amount
after/during iboga/ibogaine and then get treated again.  Sara is an expert at
these matters.  That being said I assume no liability for any of your actions
or hers.  Where is my modern hospital?  I would have kamlet, taub, glatt,
mallendi on staff among others.  You have identified your biggest problem.  It is
fear, not benzos. Ibogaine is the greatest eliminator of fear I know.  What
will you do when you are not afraid?  Have you ever been not afraid?  Kamlet
should hook up with mallendi for a few months so they can work togther.  Then
they could donate millions and establish the kamlet/mallendi iboga center. Sorry
just my imagination running away with me.

Howard

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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick227@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of SEROTONIN
Date: December 10, 2004 at 11:21:31 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–Original Message—–
From: Ms Iboga [mailto:ms_iboga@yahoo.com]
Sent: 10 December 2004 15:06
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Nick, in response to:July natural enhancer of
SEROTONIN

I’m sorry, but this stuff is just fantasy nonsense.

I’m sure Francis and a few others might disagree.

You have to allow the imbalance,
allow yourself to get crazy.

Does this also apply to schizophrenics??  Or manic
depressives?

Hi Julie, the point is I’m not trying to create an all-encompassing belief
system, that is the prerogative of the fear-dominated mind. For sure,
containment can seem useful within the context of therapy. But who’s to say
what a schizophrenic really is, it’s just a label, and who’s to say what
this schizophrenic “needs.” To mood stabilize a schizophrenic with drugs and
then slowly reintegrate the shadow aspects of the ego in a controlled
therapeutic setting might be a strategy that makes sense…but, really, who
the fuck actually knows? Actually no-one.

You can’t surrender your Ego to some higher
power.You are your Ego. It’s just new age
nonsense.

I too believe in the adage :”If you want to see God,
take a look in the mirror.”

Take a look into the unknown, more like. Take a look towards the North,
symbolic direction of chaos and the unknown.

“Good weather cometh from the North” – Job 37:22

with love

Nick

You can adjust serotonin or dopamine levels by
fiddling about with what you
eat and meditating but this is still the mind trying
to keep it all in
control. Trying to decide how things should be.
Better to check out why the
levels are moving around, what the imbalance is
seeking to create, seeking
to express.

Sometimes levels will move around due to certain
predicatable behaviour patterns- diet, excessive drug
use, sleeping patterns, etc…  Do you really think
this is the mind seeking “chaos”?  More like the body
reacting to all the shit you’re doing to it…

That’s why people
who are into all the new age bullshit about
balancing things are usually so
unhealthy. They don’t appreciate the intrinsic need
of unconsciousness for
chaos and imbalance in order to move to greater
awareness.

I agree…BUT, I don’t see any need to bash someone’s
personal belief system, especially if that belief
system is the ONE thing that might get them through
the day.  I don’t consider myself “New Agey”, but I
certainly wouldn’t emphatically dismiss everything
Francis has said.  Allowing your mind to have free
reign, especially during periods of stress or
unhappiness, might result in injury or harm to your
body.  I believe in exercising periodic self-control-
the chaos (which I also embrace) will naturally come
in waves throughout your life.  Life is a bit of a
pendulum, swinging through the darkness and the light-
both of which are NATURAL, and not to be feared.

Julie

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:56:47 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That thought went through my mind also ie reduction in relation to dosage, but I dont consider myself competent enough to comment on how much one should reduce by.

Ron, have you sought advice on the level you can reduce by? Maybe Dr Tom can advise you there?

slowone@hush.ai wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis wrote:
>… as for today i have broken a pill in
>half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
>a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

>… my mind set is this, break the physcial
>addiction and i will be free. the chemicals keep me from the
>power. help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

>don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

> —– Original Message —–
> From: Lee Albert
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

>would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
>is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
>Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.
>
>
>
> The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
> He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
> He leadeth me beside the still waters.
> He restoreth my soul:
> he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

>
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
>enemies:
> Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
> Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
>life:
> and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
>
> Psalms 23:1-6
>
> I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
>was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
>other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
>violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
>help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
>by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
>SHINING in your face.
>
> When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
>were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

>top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

>cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

> not to mention the cure.
>
> You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
>get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
>live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
>higher power and it came through for me.
>
> You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
>entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

>in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
>the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

>refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
>is waiting for you.
>
> How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
>faith?
>
> The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
>works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
>
> Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

>experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
>they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

>is the key to success.
>
> I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
>talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

>So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
>got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
>with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
>Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
>will kill you.
>
> God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
>expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
>of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
>
> Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

>a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
>repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
>news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

>Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
>(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
>everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

>you.
>
> You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
>that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
>the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
>death.” with this:
>
> Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
> I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
> Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
>
> Blessings & Light
>
> Lee
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
>kind. i will ask. what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

>been in and what was it? were there problems? i think ibo would

>kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

>death
> —– Original Message —–
> From: Sara Glatt
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
> Hi Ron,
>
>
>
> In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

>any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

>different addiction combination,
>
> Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
>of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
>symptoms.
>
> I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
>talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
>little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
>
> You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
>your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

>do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
>of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
>nights, by that time you can
>
> Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
>session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
>
> That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping. It

>isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
>massages, hot bath.
>
> I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
>done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
>or funds for such research,
>
> Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
>to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
>fun research is that?
>
> I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
>during detox. that what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
>everyone, it was just an option
>
> If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
>like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

>over dosed or under dosed or seizures.
>
>
>
> And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>——-
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> hi sara:
>
> can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
>you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
>benzos alone? scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

>) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

>see it as dangerous or simply difficult? it is beyond my realm
>of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
>
> LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
>far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
>offered advice and help.also apologies to others i may have
>offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
>bashing and the like.
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Sara Glatt
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
>
> Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Hi , I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
>Cannabis.
>
> Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
>and the mood.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Sara
>
>
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—–
>
> Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
> Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
> Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
> Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
>occasioanlly benzoa. I can’t speak for her. Ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
>addiction?(0t) Att. Sara
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
>
>
> I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

>in your situation & how she did it?
>
> Sara – can you comment?
>
>
>
> There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

>a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
>them.
>
>
>
> Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?
>
>
>
> Albert
>
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
>has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
>with the ibo receptors, hence no go. i am trying to taper with
>the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
>few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
>proven to work. it is a long, arduous journey
>
> and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
>that may have fallen thru. a wise man told me in no uncertain
>terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
>credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
>this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement. i think

>i’m screwed, by my own hand. i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
>life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
>life. docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

>afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
>helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

>i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
>not on the list. it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
>father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
>can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
>ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
>forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
>i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
>over a year, the clock is ticking. i have a unique story, but
>it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest i think sara

>is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
>could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?(0t)
>
>
>
> Ron,
>
> I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
>you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

>clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
>most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
>something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
>likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
>inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
>have a connection to it by being here.
>
> BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
>to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

>options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
>your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
>
> Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
>couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
>
> Love & Light
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> Ron Davis wrote:
>
> benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
>different countries. i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
>time under my belt. took some opiates after minor surgery,
>(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
>strung out for a short time. i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
>and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos. never had taken them in the
>old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
>withdrawals from them can be. just never read up on it and never
>knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
>up and the same old pattern set in so i started reading about
>these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
>and can lead to seizures. i read more and found out this stuff
>had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
>hell out of me. it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
>taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
>worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
>centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks. this appeared
>contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
>like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
>forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
>should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center. i then went
>to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me to put me on a
>slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
>seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
>considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation. i have spent the

>last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
>i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
>but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
>have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

>looking to get high when i was taking these things. i don’t take
>anything else. my problem really started when i got away from 12
>step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

>i now have much to lose and am terrified. withdrawals from meth
>and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
>careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
>mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
>issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
>little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
>whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

>i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
>corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
>long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
>ventured i did not have a problem. one that he hasn’t bumped into

>yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
>will. ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
>from a lame student. i never thought i’d be fighting this war
>again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
>addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
>older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
>
> —– Original Message —–
>
> From: Lee Albert
>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>
> Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
>
> Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
>deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> A question:
>
>
>
> These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
>i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
>hardest and most deadly addiction?
>
>
>
> Lee
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>————————————————————–
>
> Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New
>Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
>members of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even
>more fun!
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
>
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members
>of the media available here:
>
>
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

>—
>
> Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo!
>Messenger
>
>
>
>
> http://www.my-eboga.com
>
> Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
>media available here:
>
> www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
>
>
>
>——————————————————————-

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From: Lee Albert <myeboga@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:53:14 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ron,

I am very proud of you man. Sounds like you are stepping forward. You dont sound too twisted to me. Just under the influence of a lot of fear. I think your mindset is pretty good right now and in the right direction.
Do you mind if I ask what timescale do you expect for your father? Or is it open ended?
My father passed away and frequently joins me in my sessions. He seems very pleased at my progress as I am sure your father too will be when he decides to go to the other side. I still think of my father most days and he passed on a few years before I started eboga about 6 years ago. Truth is I still feel him as being alive in some way. In many ways I know him better now that I ever did. I have been given a lot of insight. I feel a lot of love for him.
Sometimes we can only do one thing at a time but at least you are now doing something.
That idea that came up using the sandpaper sounds like a good one. Breaking a pill in half sounds groundbreaking.
Hang in there and keep going forward.
Carrying the prayer around with you is (imo) a beautiful & enriching thing to do.

Love & Light,
Lee

PS What is your dreamlife like these days? Do you remember them? Have you considered journalling? I get a lot of info & sometimes clear guidance from my dreams.

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
Lee:
thanks for the very thoughtful message.i am consummed by fear.  i know there must be a power but i can’t find it in traditional ways or using previous methods. as for today i have broken a pill in half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

i will read the prayer, memorize it and carry it with me thru the day. i will try to focus on it as i work.  i can believe that you believe and that you and others are not mindless fools wasting thoughts. it is confusing, compounded by the demons of which you speak and the iminent death of my father looming.  i have never lost a parent and he is the guy who understands me.. so, having said this i will pursue the day, prayer in hand striving to make a decision on what to do.  my mind set is this, break the physcial addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: 
He leadeth me beside the still waters. 
He restoreth my soul: 
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake. 

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: 
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: 
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. 

Psalms 23:1-6
I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit) by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is SHINING in your face.
When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me – not to mention the cure.
You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a higher power and it came through for me.
You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It is waiting for you.
How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of faith?
The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.
Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty is the key to success.
I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice. So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself? Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they will kill you.
God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?
Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list (they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for you.
You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death.” with this:
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, 
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; 
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 

Blessings & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do any research. The people who I have treated are of different age , different addiction combination,
Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount of medication at the same times from the same age for the same symptoms.
I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,
You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and nights, by that time you can
Trust that you can quit what you still use with another session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,
That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and massages, hot bath…
I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need or funds for such research,
Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of fun research is that?
I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help everyone, it was just an option
If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:
can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc. ) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron
LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc bashing and the like.
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and Cannabis.
Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net] 
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone in your situation & how she did it?
Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
there are much smarter people on the list. one, who has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.  few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey
and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2 life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything. father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs. ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life . i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,
I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly have a connection to it by being here.
BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?
Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?
Love & Light
Lee
Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery, (strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.  i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are, but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12 step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.  i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.  addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path
—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win £10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger – all new features – even more fun!

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger

From: “Ron Davis” <rwd3@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:44:33 AM EST
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

man, i need a lot of work, no argument…cosmic makeover
—– Original Message —– From: <slowone@hush.ai>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–  From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–      From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping to find a knowlegable doc to help me.
i quit up dosing when i learned how dangerous these things are,
but find tapering difficult , i think in large part b/c i do not
have the correct benzo. now i’m 54, should know better, but wasn’t

looking to get high when i was taking these things.  i don’t take
anything else.  my problem really started when i got away from 12
step meetings and people who value their sobriety above all else.

i now have much to lose and am terrified.  withdrawals from meth
and h are a bitch, but there’s other stuff lurking if one is not
careful. for me, and i’m just a lay person schmuck, all mood and
mind altering substances are poison…for me….it’s not a moral
issue and more power to those that can get away with taking a
little something to take the edge off after kicking opiates or
whatever..i came here looking for an answer and smarter heads than

i say ibo’s not it. so i’ll continue to try to get out of this
corner i painted myself into, maybe salvage a career and read as
long as you guys let me stay. some tragically hip list member
ventured i did not have a problem.  one that he hasn’t bumped into

yet anyway. hopefully he’s as smart as he thinks he is and never
will.  ibo sounds great for those that made it…continued luck
from a lame student.  i never thought i’d be fighting this war
again. sobriety(clean) makes one a citizen of the world.
addiction makes it a very small place to live. Ron, probably
older, but not necessarily wiser. wishing all a peaceful path

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 8:39 AM

Subject: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?

A question:

These benzos. Are they like prescription drugs
i.e. what has been sanctioned by (y)our government is in fact the
hardest and most deadly addiction?

Lee

http://www.my-eboga.com

Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for
members of the media available here:

www.my-eboga.com/freecopy.html

————————————————————–

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——————————————————————

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——————————————————————-

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Free copies of Amazing Grace by Lee Albert for members of the
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——————————————————————-

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/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

/]=———————————————————————=[\
[%] Ibogaine List Commands: http://ibogaine.mindvox.com/IbogaineList.html [%]
\]=———————————————————————=[/

From: <slowone@hush.ai>
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Lee
Date: December 10, 2004 at 10:40:46 AM EST
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 06:28:22 -0800 Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:
… as for today i have broken a pill in
half,, thus decreasing dosage. that won’t kill my addiction. it’s
a tiny, maybe insignificant step.

Ron, you already know that the steps *have* to be tiny, so they
cannot be insignificant. The important thing, according to the
benzo detox protocols, is to make sure they are tiny enough in
relation to your current dosage.

…  my mind set is this, break the physcial
addiction and i will be free.  the chemicals keep me from the
power.    help me out here if i’m twisted, i can’t read myself and

don’t know the way., peace and thanks, ron

I believe you will have to work on yourself as well as break free
of the chemicals.

—– Original Message —–
From: Lee Albert
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Benzos & The Power of Light – Att. Ron

Ron,

If I had to chose a prayer to signify the experience of eboga it

would be this. I would read the LORD as Eboga or LORD or whatever
is your preference. Doesn’t matter really. Lets just say its a
Universal spirit. I hope you read it now.

The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures:
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul:
he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name’s sake.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine
enemies:
Thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my
life:
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 23:1-6

I read your posts and I see the child in you (the man) I once
was. On the one hand wanting to reach out and be helped. On the
other running back into the corner, a head filled with noise and
violence and lonliness not believing that anyone or anything can
help – utterly confused. And yet here I am (after all that shit)
by God’s good grace trying to help you see the light that is
SHINING in your face.

When I first took eboga the thoughts that went through my mind
were: I have done some silly things in my life but this has got to

top them all. I entered the world of drug addiction in search of a

cure when the world of addiction itself scared the hell out of me –

not to mention the cure.

You know how I did it? I kept my eye on the light and I did not
get lost in the dark. Because the dark is where the dark entities
live and warp our thoughts and actions. I placed my trust in a
higher power and it came through for me.

You are now in a struggle between your soul and these thought
entities (IMO). You can win that struggle if you look to the light

in you that shines through on this list and answer its call. When
the other starts to terrify you, squeese your mind into a state of

refusal to listen and keep pushing forward towards the light. It
is waiting for you.

How much documentary evidence do you need to begin a process of
faith?

The first eboga session I would classify as an exorcism as it
works to rid your body of the evil that has found a home there.

Someone asked before if addicts in recovery can expect spiritual

experiences and now I would say, yes, if not more so than most as
they have been humbled incredibly by their experience. And humilty

is the key to success.

I don’t see that you have much choice Ron. On the one hand you
talk of going down – its over. And on the other you have a choice.

So if you are convinced on one level that its over, what have you
got to lose? Unless you think you can still play the numbers game
with meds and are keeping that little thought demon to yourself?
Clever, sneaky bastards those thought demons. Watch out or they
will kill you.

God did not issue anyone with a medical certificate. So don’t
expect the Gods to issue one to the one who will heal you. Unless
of course you don’t like the nature of spirituality?

Please write and tell us exactly what you are now doing to be in

a better place than you were yesterday. And please give up the
repeating gramaphone stuff. Personally I want to hear positive
news of you. We love you but we want you to move forward also. BTW

Its pretty much impossible for you to offend anyone on this list
(they are a pretty tough bunch – as I have learned (LOL)) as
everyone can see exactly where you are and has only compassion for

you.

You last post to Sara sounds positive. I hope you will build on
that. However you have to get over this: “i think ibo would kill
the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to
death.” with this:

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: for thou art with me;
Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

Blessings & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

empiricle research, cause and effect, i trust you, you are
kind.  i will ask.  what is the highest dose of benzos a clint has

been in and what was it?  were there problems?   i think ibo would

kill the addiction demon, but those damn lethal benzos scare me to

death
—– Original Message —–
From: Sara Glatt
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi Ron,

In my position and in the way I work it isn’t possible to do

any research. The people who I have treated are of different age ,

different addiction combination,

Different constitution and they didn’t get the same amount
of medication at the same times from the same age for the same
symptoms.

I have no idea what to recommend until I see the person and
talk to them and feel during the treatment if they could have a
little more Iboga or valerian or cannabis,

You can take a small dose of Iboga ( 2 grams ) and lower
your benzo dose to a point where you are not suffering. If you can

do that with a small dose of iboga then you will be on an amount
of benzo that you can handle and be stabilised for few days and
nights, by that time you can

Trust that you can quit what you still use with another
session which doesn’t have to be a kickin ass session,

That I can not do or provide like a post order shopping.  It

isn’t a package deal. It is a day today observation, talks and
massages, hot bath.

I can’t show you a research of how tailor made detox. is
done because I have no papers like that, I have not personal need
or funds for such research,

Just imagine that you give placebo to a person who is going
to get sick, knowing he is going to be really sick, what kind of
fun research is that?

I have seen how most people react to Iboga and cannabis
during detox.  that  what I trust, but I’m jumping to help
everyone, it was just an option

If you will not find anyone else where you live, and you
like to give it a chance trusting that I wouldn’t take the risk of

over dosed or under dosed or seizures.

And Ron , feel free to ask, and I do my best to answer.

Sara

——————————————————————-

——-

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 19:15
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

hi sara:

can you be more specific about the benzo part of the people
you guided?e.g. types, dosages, ages, would you recommend it for
benzos alone?  scientific info (opinion, research, chemistry, etc.

) is contra to the empirical observations you may have had. do you

see it as dangerous or simply difficult?   it is beyond my realm
of experience so all i can do is ask questions. thank you. ron

LIST: apologies for this tangent, i’ll quit asking if too
far off topic. thanks to both Lee and Sara and others who have
offered advice and help.also apologies to others  i may have
offended by presenting the issue the way i originally did, doc
bashing and the like.

—– Original Message —–

From: Sara Glatt

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 11:11 AM

Subject: RE: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Hi ,  I did it with Iboga repeated small dosages and
Cannabis.

Cannabis is a seizure preventive it helps the body pain
and the mood.

Greetings,

Sara

——————————————————————-

—–

Van: Ron Davis [mailto:rwd3@cox.net]
Verzonden: maandag 6 december 2004 15:54
Aan: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Onderwerp: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

i think Sara has treated people who used opiates and
occasioanlly benzoa.  I can’t speak for her.  Ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most deadly
addiction?(0t) Att. Sara

Ron,

I would be interested to know if Sara has treated anyone

in your situation & how she did it?

Sara – can you comment?

There is more than 1 way to get drugs if you cannot find

a doctor. The thing is to know what to do with them when you have
them.

Do you know what to do if you had the right drugs?

Albert

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

there are much smarter people on the list. one, who
has credentials clued me in that the gaba receptors don’t work
with the ibo receptors, hence no go.  i am trying to taper with
the wrong benzos, as i understand it, and it is a real bitch.
few, if any docs will taper , according to protocol that has been
proven to work.  it is a long, arduous journey

and i thought i had a benzo wise doc to help me but
that may have fallen thru. a  wise man told me in no uncertain
terms ibo won’t work on benzos and i believe him as he has the
credentials to support his opinion. i believe he is an expert in
this field and ibo wise as well so i trust his judgement.  i think

i’m screwed, by my own hand.  i’m trying to taper w/ a short half
life benzo, when i think i need a benzo with a much longer 1/2
life.   docs won’t rx them b/c they think i’m drug seeking and are

afraid of the liability. i’m a licensed professional and been
helping people for 20 yrs. it was a good story until a relapse and

i ended up with this jones. be glad to tell you all about it, but
not on the list.  it’s lethal, nasty and i fear for everything.
father dying, only child, no significant other or children and i
can’t find a doc who will work with me. i ct the h and meth yrs.
ago i n my youth, can’t do this one, it’s dangerous. please
forgive the pity party. my sponsor was a doc that saved my life .
i did his eulogy 5 yrs. ago. i ‘m scared, been on this search for
over a year, the clock is ticking.   i have a unique story, but
it’s unraveling as i write. thanks for the interest   i think sara

is a wonderful person, but lacking in this area. if i thoughtshe
could help, i’d be there now. Love to all, ron

—– Original Message —–

From: Lee Albert

To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Ibogaine] Pharmaceuticals – most
deadly addiction?(0t)

Ron,

I hope when you manage to get off the benzos that
you take an eboga/ibogaine journey as it will set into place being

clean – expecially if it proves a tough experience. You will also
most likely have some form of spiritual journey which will add
something to what has been lacking in your life recently. Most
likely a life changing experience. I truely do hope you feel
inspired to allow Eboga to grant you its blessings. You certainly
have a connection to it by being here.

BTW thanks for the explanation as I found it useful
to know. What exactly is your withdrawal program right now or what

options for withdrawal have you identified? Can you articulate
your options &/or program on the list PLEASE?

Also, why did you decide in the end that Sara
couldnt help you? Did you speak with her?

Love & Light

Lee

Ron Davis <rwd3@cox.net> wrote:

benzo’s: xanex, ativan, different names in
different countries.  i, the know it all, had many yrs. of clean
time under my belt.  took some opiates after minor surgery,
(strongly suggest never doing outside hospital setting), and got
strung out for a short time.   i detoxed and to beat the insomnia
and panicky feeling was rx’d benzos.  never had taken them in the
old days to get high and had no idea how addicting and lethal
withdrawals from them can be.  just never read up on it and never
knew anyone who’d taken them. i slept like a rock, tolerance went
up and the same old pattern  set in so i started reading about
these things. medical literature says only w/d that can kill you
and can lead to seizures.  i read more and found out this stuff
had been the subject of class action suits in the uk, scared the
hell out of me.  it seems the only safe way to detox is a gradual
taper using a long lasting one but u.s. docs don’t have that
worked into the their addictions manual yet. i called treatment
centers and asked, most said detox was 2 weeks.  this appeared
contrary to all the literature i was reading. they used things
like darvon and weird, unrelated drugs to do the detox. i joined
forums where i read about others’ experiences and all agreed i
should not go to a conventional detox/rehab center.  i then went
to docs, leveled w/ them and none would trust me  to put me on a
slow taper. i even offered to come to the office daily. many
seemed afraid of the liability, and probably rightly so
considering the u.s.’ propensity for litigation.  i have spent the

last several months hoping