Ibogaine List Archives - 2002-09

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 30, 2002 at 5:33:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your addiction series is good but this one letter is excellent.

Almost everything in one place. I’m printing it now 🙂

Perfect 🙂
—

On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:27:39
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn. In the extremely near future we are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled with
God. Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
| know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Do0d, I’m not you. I can’t hand you a roadmap and say, okay, follow this
exactly and you’ll obtain whatever results you want. Although, get back
to be ’round 2004 or so, I should have the hang of that shaktipat thing by
then.

Heroin is extreme numbness; it ain’t demonic possession, it’s just a
molecule. Look at it as the left-hand path of tantra, chemical Zen. It’s
pretty fucking cool. There are just states that are beyond this. Godhead
is one killer fucking rush. I love to get high. Shift focus; addiction
is just energy… A LOT of it. Instead of pretending it’s not there, or
trying to make deals with it, which doesn’t work because it’s not
listening; ride the lightning. Focus and direct it where you want it to
go. Who gives a fuck about being “normal,” whatever that means exactly.

To cop a line from Jung, addiction is a hole in your soul, where the
connection to God is missing. This is pretty much exactly correct. And
I’d say you would be in a good space if you can establish or re-establish
your personal conduit into all this; but I’m not exactly sure even that is
necessary.

Without taking a long detour, I know two people who I hang out with
sometimes; one was a junkie for 22 years, then managed to kick, smoked pot
for a decade, and has now entered a My Body is My Temple phase, goes to
the gym 4 hours a day, doesn’t drink coffee, smoke, or eat anything that
isn’t Holistic and Natural. He’s also an incredibly fucking annoying
human being, “Patrick, have I mentioned in the last 5 minutes that you
need to stop smoking? Steak is evil, and there are natural substitutes
for aspirin…” Uhm, thanks for sharing mahn.

The other dude had a roughly 25 year long methamphetamine run, woke up one
day and decided it was getting old, went back to school, runs a store now,
builds motorcycles, plus, also, works out 4 hours a day (there is a
pattern here). He appears to have found some sort of spiritual belief
system in the works of this entity named Krylon — which apparently isn’t
just spray paint for tagging up anymore. Krylon is channeled by somebody;
and he’s this God or Demon, or Energy Collective or something, which
either makes the magnetic poles of the earth shift every few thousand
decades, or he is just in charge of watching this and kinda commemorating
the event. Sadly I’m uncertain which it is, since I never pay that close
attention to the details of the scenario when it is patiently explained to
me.

But anyway, neither one is exactly what I’d called Filled with God.
Neither one thinks much of therapy or the concept of “recovery.”
Neither one does the 12-step stuff, although not having had people attempt
to dump them into that paradigm against their will, they don’t exhibit a
violent psychotic reaction to it, like some of us may at times. To
summarize both their opinions on it, it’d be more of a Hovering Question
Mark, “I felt like shit, people said I should go to this meeting because
it’d make me feel better, so, okay, why not. Then I went there and it’s
this room completely filled with whiny people complaining about shit. It
really depressed me, never went back. I don’t get it.”

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common? Well, working out FUCKING HELPS. Period.
Beyond that; not much. Except they BELIEVE they can do what they’re
doing. Which is all it takes.

But YOU hafta do it. Whatever IT happens to be. Unfortunately the answer
to how you get from over there, to here; is not lining up molecules [A],
[B], [C] in the proper order. Although, that too helps a whole fuckova
lot.

Ibogaine will get you unsprung. After that, it’s a question of whatever
you do to connect yourself to someplace positive. You need to keep doing
it. Otherwise you will fall on your face and get torn down by reality.
The World is a Vampire.

Patrick

____________________________________________________________
Tired of all the SPAM in your inbox? Switch to LYCOS MAIL PLUS
http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: replacing addiction with exercise.
Date: September 30, 2002 at 1:29:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison,

Speaking for myself I have found that ANYTHING that
feels good can re-direct my addiction. It can be work,
some hobby, exercise, money, sex (that was fun)…,
anything. I don’t look at it as replacement of
addiction, just moving it from one thing to another
(eg drugs to exercise, drugs to sex, drugs to food) if
it is done in an addictive way – TOO MUCH at the
expense of all else. I have found what works for me it
is far better to HARNESS that energy and direct it
without letting it get away with itself. I throw
myself INTO things (using my addiction to my
advantage) but don’t get carried away with it or stuck
there, no MORE, MORE, MORE syndrome, but I do fall
into it for brief periods to accomplish things – like
getting in shape or my Orchid “addiction”, currently
re-modeling the kitchen or painting the house and then
move on to something else.

Nothing wrong with a good endorphin boost/rush, it is
good in recovery from drug addiction, for some
ANYTHING AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT USING is fine with
them (12 steppers often do it that way).

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
When you kick drugs and then not know what to do
with yourself the best
thing for most people is exercise cos it releases
natural endorphines in
your body which do the same sort of job that drugs
did chemically.
Anyways, that it how I understand it. Once you can
get yourself over that
horrible lethargic, sick period your body is crying
out for something???
You want to eat and then after a couple of
mouthfulls your sick of it, you
want to drink and then thats not satisfying either.
Then when you get to
exercise it sort of kicks something into gear in
your body that stimulates a
happy feeling so you keep doing it. However, its
just as easy to get hooked
on exercise as it is drugs. You can do a couple of
days a week and feel
good and then it sort of creeps up on you that your
doing 3 or 4 days and
then you start worrying if you miss a day etc.
Anyone else been through
that one. I was told that it was a reaction to
endorphine release in the
nervous system which is similar to or the same as
what opiates do. Does
anyone else have more info or opinions on all that.
Allison
PS Is Katrina out there. If you are, Hows it
going????
—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 30 September 2002 08:40
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction
ibogaine this list everything

On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700],
[Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me
some hours of thought to
write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn. In the extremely
near future we are
going to start a support group for people who are
Completely Filled with
God. Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all
varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with
Enlightenment, are all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a
recovery site. I still don’t
know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of
crack, heroin,
psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic,
running out of meds, the
treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip
offs, the list is endless.
You
| know the list, you write about the degredation
and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You
know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know
this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve
already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m
dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you
do? H O W ????? Don’t
tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done
psychedelics and none who
have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t
tell me ibogaine
because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more,
but I’m not seeing
anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then
what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Do0d, I’m not you. I can’t hand you a roadmap and
say, okay, follow this
exactly and you’ll obtain whatever results you
want. Although, get back
to be ’round 2004 or so, I should have the hang of
that shaktipat thing by
then.

Heroin is extreme numbness; it ain’t demonic
possession, it’s just a
molecule. Look at it as the left-hand path of
tantra, chemical Zen. It’s
pretty fucking cool. There are just states that
are beyond this. Godhead
is one killer fucking rush. I love to get high.
Shift focus; addiction
is just energy… A LOT of it. Instead of
pretending it’s not there, or
trying to make deals with it, which doesn’t work
because it’s not
listening; ride the lightning. Focus and direct it
where you want it to
go. Who gives a fuck about being “normal,”
whatever that means exactly.

To cop a line from Jung, addiction is a hole in
your soul, where the
connection to God is missing. This is pretty much
exactly correct. And
I’d say you would be in a good space if you can
establish or re-establish
your personal conduit into all this; but I’m not
exactly sure even that is
necessary.

Without taking a long detour, I know two people who
I hang out with
sometimes; one was a junkie for 22 years, then
managed to kick, smoked pot
for a decade, and has now entered a My Body is My
Temple phase, goes to
the gym 4 hours a day, doesn’t drink coffee, smoke,
or eat anything that
isn’t Holistic and Natural. He’s also an
incredibly fucking annoying
human being, “Patrick, have I mentioned in the last
5 minutes that you
need to stop smoking? Steak is evil, and there are
natural substitutes
for aspirin…” Uhm, thanks for sharing mahn.

The other dude had a roughly 25 year long
methamphetamine run, woke up one
day and decided it was getting old, went back to
school, runs a store now,
builds motorcycles, plus, also, works out 4 hours a
day (there is a
pattern here). He appears to have found some sort
of spiritual belief
system in the works of this entity named Krylon —
which apparently isn’t
just spray paint for tagging up anymore. Krylon is
channeled by somebody;
and he’s this God or Demon, or Energy Collective or
something, which
either makes the magnetic poles of the earth shift
every few thousand
decades, or he is just in charge of watching this
and kinda commemorating
the event. Sadly I’m uncertain which it is, since
I never pay that close
attention to the details of the scenario when it is
patiently explained to
me.

But anyway, neither one is exactly what I’d called
Filled with God.
Neither one thinks much of therapy or the concept
of “recovery.”
Neither one does the 12-step stuff, although not
having had people attempt
to dump them into that paradigm against their will,
they don’t exhibit a
violent psychotic reaction to it, like some of us
may at times. To
summarize both their opinions on it, it’d be more
of a Hovering Question
Mark, “I felt like shit, people said I should go to
this meeting because
it’d make me feel better, so, okay, why not. Then
I went there and it’s
this room completely filled with whiny people
complaining about shit. It
really depressed me, never went back. I don’t get
it.”

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more
than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common? Well, working out
FUCKING HELPS. Period.
Beyond that; not much. Except they BELIEVE they
can do what they’re
doing. Which is all it takes.

But YOU hafta do it. Whatever IT happens to be.
Unfortunately the answer
to how you get from over there, to here; is not
lining up molecules [A],
[B], [C] in the proper order. Although, that too
helps a whole fuckova
lot.

Ibogaine will get you unsprung. After that, it’s a
question of whatever
you do to connect yourself to someplace positive.
You need to keep doing
it. Otherwise you will fall on your face and get
torn down by reality.
The World is a Vampire.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 30, 2002 at 1:09:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All of you should book a flight with the philip k. dick travel agency
and go give him some 🙂

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 10:17:10PM -0400], [R.A.Venglarcik] wrote:

| Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force. I was tired
of my

| ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option. I told them
all I
| knew. Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched,
it
| seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. I’ve never
done
| ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out.
For
| whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed
with
| it in my thoughts. I have been unable to force myself to actually
| pursue the career change…why? I love working with the people and
| ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. Coincidence? I Don’t know.
But
| when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out
bad.

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine
would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there. Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose. It
must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with
it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. Fucking
ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 30, 2002 at 12:58:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick this in no way is meant to disrespect you. You’re a genius,
Mindvox is great, you write really well. I don’t know anything about
addiction or godhead so I can’t say about that part but.

Dogg I’m taking notes here, you get laid a lot don’t you?

Your line of bullshit is amazing, everything with a pussy that wears
bellbottoms and smokes pot is listening 🙂 Not to forget the acidheads
🙂

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought
to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn. In the extremely near future we
are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled
with
God. Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are
all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still
don’t know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin,
psychiatrists,

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Fw: MAPS Press Release about MDMA Study
Date: September 30, 2002 at 8:29:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: maptalk ; dpfca@drugsense.org ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:35 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: MAPS Press Release about MDMA Study

Forum readers:

Below is MAPS’ first-ever press release, which worked rather well. We got
our
perspective presented in the NYTimes and Washington Post, AP wire service
articles, and numerous newspapers. We failed to get our perspective
considered for the NPR story or the BBC story and in other media outlets.

The crucial point is that there are direct human data from two brain scan
studies and one post-mortem autopsy of a heavy Ecstasy abuser showing NO
impact of MDMA on dopamine levels. There are also several spinal tap studies
conducted by George Ricaurte that show NO affect of MDMA on dopamine
metabolite levels in spinal fluid (Ouch- I was tapped twice for two of these
studies).

The chance that MDMA will cause Parkinson’s is close to zero. Here is an
excerpt from the New Scientist article:

“Robert Meadowcroft, policy director of the UK’s Parkinson’s Disease
Society,
told New Scientist that there is no evidence early-onset Parkinson’s disease
is on the increase or that former MDMA users are turning up at clinics with
Parkinson’s symptoms. This is despite the fact that the drug has been widely
used since the early 1980s.

“If the drug, used in large quantities, were responsible for the young-onset
of Parkinson’s disease we might have expected to see some early evidence of
this,” says Adrian Williams, a neurologist at the University of Birmingham
in
the UK. Another recreational drug from the 1980s, called MTMP, did cause
Parkinsonism and was detected very quickly when users presented with severe
symptoms.”

Here’s the press release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Rick Doblin (617) 484-8711
September 26, 2002 Tony Newman (510)
812-3126

Scientists Sharply Criticize Conclusions
of New MDMA (Ecstasy) Report

Test Monkeys Injected With Deadly Doses of Drug;
Study Did Not Simulate Human Use

Drug Education Experts Warn: Hyperbole Discredits Message

Scientists have expressed strong criticism of a new report about MDMA to be
published in the journal Science on September 27. The primate study, by Dr.
George Ricaurte and colleagues, reports that MDMA – or Ecstasy – damages
dopamine neurons in the brain, and suggests that such damage indicates that
MDMA may cause Parkinson’s disease in humans.

Critics, pointing to questionable assumptions in Dr. Ricaurte’s report,
say it suggests no such thing. And they express concern about the hysteria
often generated by exaggerated estimates of drug-related harms – which, they
say, can hinder the efforts of parents and teachers to establish open,
honest
dialogue with young people about drug use.

Dr. Juan Sanchez-Ramos, Ellis Professor of Neurology, University of South
Florida, and an expert in Parkinson’s and dopaminergic neurotoxicity, said,
“The multiple dose regimen of injected MDMA administered by Dr. Ricaurte to
primates does not simulate human exposure, does not cause cell death, and
does not predict anything about human vulnerability to Parkinson’s as a
result of MDMA. In fact, Dr. Ricaurte’s study shows that it is far easier to
kill whole animals than to kill neurons.”

According to youth drug education experts, it is counterproductive to
overstate and misrepresent the harms of drug use. But they say that all too
often, research results – and the way they are promoted and used — are
driven more by drug war politics and a scare tactics philosophy than by
scientific principle.

“Like everyone, young people stop trusting you when you bend the truth to
scare them,” said Marsha Rosenbaum, director of the Safety First Project of
the Drug Policy Alliance. “Good science, not misguided fear, is what helps
us
talk honestly and effectively with our teenagers about drug use and their
safety.”

Scientists pointed to several important flaws in the Science report:

1) The doses administered are not representative of human doses

The paper’s prepublication title, “Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in
Primates after a Single Recreational Dose Regime of MDMA (Ecstasy),”
suggests
it provides evidence about the effects of a single recreational dose of
MDMA.
In fact, however, all but two of the primates in the study were actually
injected with three doses of MDMA within a 6-hour period. This multiple
dosage regime killed 20% of the animals (2 out of 10), and possibly would
have killed another 20% except for the fact that signs of distress caused
the
researchers not to administer the third injection.

Dr. Ricaurte and colleagues claim that according to their interspecies
scaling model, which they use to estimate the human equivalents of the doses
administered to animals, “individual doses of MDMA administered in this
study are lower than those typically used by humans…” It is difficult to
believe, say critics, that a dose regimen this fatal is equivalent to
amounts
commonly self-administered by humans, in which fatal reactions are
exceptionally rare. Critics say this difference in lethality further calls
into question the validity of the interspecies scaling model used by Dr.
Ricaurte and colleagues.

2) Data from actual human studies shows no dopamine reductions from MDMA

Dr. Ricaurte and colleagues suggest that individuals taking MDMA may have
analogous dopamine changes with increased risk of Parkinson’s Disease.
However, they failed to cite several recent human brain scan studies and a
post-mortem autopsy study that found normal dopamine systems in very
experienced illicit MDMA users. These human studies suggest that MDMA may
not
result in dopamine changes in humans.

Dr. Ricaurte and colleagues have themselves carried out human spinal tap
studies in very experienced MDMA users and found no evidence to indicate
lowered dopamine metabolites. These spinal tap studies, also not cited in
the
Science article, are an indirect measure of possible Parkinson’s risk and
have been superseded by more accurate brain scan and autopsy studies

3) There is no proven link between Parkinson’s and amphetamine or
methamphetamine

The dopamine changes produced by MDMA in this study are similar to those
caused by d-amphetamine and d-methamphetamine, two drugs that are
structurally and functionally
similar to MDMA and are legally available as prescription medicines at
present and for more than half a century. During that time there has been
no
convincing evidence linking these dopamine changes to Parkinson’s Disease.
This suggests that more evidence is needed before linking the dopaminergic
changes produced by Dr Ricaurte’s multiple dose regime to neurological
disease in humans.

Risk/Benefit Analysis for MDMA/PTSD Psychotherapy Research

The FDA has approved a study into the use of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in
the treatment of patients with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Patients must have failed to obtain relief from at least one course of
treatment with a serotonin-selective reuptake inhibitor (SSRI), such as
Zoloft, Paxil or Prozac, the only type of medicine FDA-approved for PTSD.
This study will involve two oral administrations, three to five weeks apart,
of a single dose of 125 mgs of MDMA in an air-conditioned room with subjects
reclining on a couch and drinking an adequate amount of fluids. According to
Rick Doblin, Ph.D., President of the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies (MAPS, www.maps.org), the non-profit organization that
is
sponsoring the MDMA/PTSD study, “It has taken 17 years since MDMA was made
illegal in 1985 before a double-blind, placebo-controlled study of the
therapeutic use of MDMA has been approved by the FDA. During that time, over
260 people worldwide have already been administered MDMA in clinical
research
studies focused on evaluating various aspects of the safety of MDMA, without
demonstrating evidence of harm to those human subjects. Dr. Ricaurte’s
latest
findings do not significantly change the risk/benefit ratio for the subjects
who will volunteer for our study. MDMA/PTSD research remains scientifically
and ethically justified.”

For additional information, contact:

Juan Sanchez-Ramos, PhD, MD
expert in Parkinson’s and in dopaminergic neurotoxicity.
Ellis Professor of Neurology
University of South Florida
12901 Bruce B Downs Blvd (MDC 55)
Tampa, FL 33620
Academic Office phone: 813-974-5841 or 6022
office FAX: 813-974-7200; jsramos@hsc.usf.edu

Dr. Jim O’Callaghan, Chief, Molecular Neurotoxicology Lab, Center for
Disease
Control. jdo5@cdc.gov
NOTE: Dr. O’Callaghan can answer questions about neurotoxicity but any
quotes attributed to him need to be cleared by Fred Blosser, Public Affairs
Officer, CDC-NIOSH
202-401-3749
FBlosser@cdc.gov.

Rick Doblin, Ph.D.
President, Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)
617 484-8711
rick@maps.org
www.maps.org

Marsha Rosenbaum, Ph.D.
Director, Safety First Project
Drug Policy Alliance
415-982-3277

—————-
MAPS-Forum@maps.org, a member service of the Multidisciplinary
Association
for Psychedelic Studies (see www.maps.org/cgi-bin/thatsanorder_LE ).
To [un]subscribe, email the message text,
[un]subscribe maps-forum youraddress to majordomo@maps.org
List archives: www.cerebral.org/Maps
Guidelines for authors: www.maps.org/guidelines.txt
MAPS Forum is supported by a generous grant from the Promind Foundation.

<]=———————————————————————–=[

<]=———————————————————————–=[

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: replacing addiction with exercise.
Date: September 30, 2002 at 6:43:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When you kick drugs and then not know what to do with yourself the best
thing for most people is exercise cos it releases natural endorphines in
your body which do the same sort of job that drugs did chemically.
Anyways, that it how I understand it. Once you can get yourself over that
horrible lethargic, sick period your body is crying out for something???
You want to eat and then after a couple of mouthfulls your sick of it, you
want to drink and then thats not satisfying either. Then when you get to
exercise it sort of kicks something into gear in your body that stimulates a
happy feeling so you keep doing it. However, its just as easy to get hooked
on exercise as it is drugs. You can do a couple of days a week and feel
good and then it sort of creeps up on you that your doing 3 or 4 days and
then you start worrying if you miss a day etc. Anyone else been through
that one.   I was told that it was a reaction to endorphine release in the
nervous system which is similar to or the same as what opiates do.   Does
anyone else have more info or opinions on all that.   Allison
PS Is Katrina out there. If you are, Hows it going????
—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 30 September 2002 08:40
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything

On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to
write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t
know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin,
psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the
treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless.
You
| know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t
tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who
have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine
because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing
anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common? Well, working out FUCKING HELPS. Period.
Beyond that; not much. Except they BELIEVE they can do what they’re
doing. Which is all it takes.

Patrick

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 29, 2002 at 11:31:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, ElGrekkko wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, ElGrekkko wrote:

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two thousand
years for the same thing.

I’ve always had a very bad reaction to ephedrine, i get very shaky and
anxious. the odd thing is that i tolerate amphetamines and cocaine fine,
which seems bizarre to me since they are stronger stimulants.

i also have no problem with pseudoephedrine…

Ok, one more time. I am not talking about ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine.
These are synthetic derivatives of the actual herb, the plant called
Ephedra. This is a plant, like pot, like a carrot, like Valerian root, that
has been used in Chinese traditional medicine for a loooooooong time. When
you begin to fuck with such things—pardon my French—and make synthetic
components, you are also screwing with nature’s own time-tested formula.
Ephedrine and especially pseudo-ephedrine is a fucked-with version of
Ephedra. Other fucked-with versions of this powerful plant are crystal meth
and speed. You will get some nasty bodily reactions if you do too much of
these synthetic versions. But if you spend good money to get real and good
quality Ephedra, then you can see why humans have cherished it for so long.
But you pay well in order to see this. www.shamanshop.net has the quality
I’m talking about. No jitters, very pure.

No, ephedrine is a naturally occuring chemical, it is the primary
psychoactive constituent of ephedra (like morphine to opium). I experience
the shakes and anxiety whether I take the whole herb, or the
extracted ephedrine; leading me to believe that it is the ephedrine which
causes the reaction (as opposed to some other chemical found in the whole
herb).

I would imagine that the reason that pseudoephedrine doesn’t have this
effect on me is that it is less potent than ephedrine, but what confuses
the matter is that more potent stimulants (e.g. methamphetamine and
cocaine) don’t cause this reaction in me…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
– –
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 29, 2002 at 5:47:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick, I don’t think I’ve written to you directly before, and
sure know you don’t “need” my insights or whatever. But everyone
deserves to be thanked when they help, and I must say this is the
single most beautiful post I have read ever on this list regarding
addiction and life after. (I mean the whole post, not the little bit
excerpted here) Best and all, Jane

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought
to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn. In the extremely near future we
are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled
with
God. Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are
all
welcome.

etc.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 29, 2002 at 4:27:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common? Well, working out FUCKING HELPS. Period.
Beyond that; not much. Except they BELIEVE they can do what they’re
doing. Which is all it takes.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Blue box; past memories
Date: September 29, 2002 at 2:39:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 04:46:14PM -0700], [Jack Honeycutt] wrote:

| How nice it is to touch bases with others of the same ilk. I was on the
| west cost. Met Cap Crunch
| played and did stuff long before computers were on the landscape. Then we
| found the Internet, long before the web was invented. Did you know that
| many of us went to work for the local telcos, did our 30 years, and have
| since retired we are that old? We would set in meetings when some Big Wig
| would talk about blue and red boxes and try our best not to laugh. They
| were clueless.
|
| So hello my friend from your partner from the west cost. Thanks for your
| good work. Many of us played alone but we knew other were out there.

Hey do0d!

[KP] NPA/ANC-XXXX [ST]

I control all phone systems of planet earth, I am mad with poWeR!
Woo Hoo!

[Welcome to Alliance Teleconference]

I will stop now. And totally cool to have you here mahn.

| We are a dying bread (really dying; we are getting old, fat, heart trouble,
| etc). It is up to you to tell the story.
| Keep on keeping on, and let your freak flag fly.

I’m doing my very best. We strive to be a Homing Signal for all freaks,
creative weirdos, and people who have God inside; approval ratings are
pretty good so far.

| Thanks for the memories.

Likewise.

_mE

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 29, 2002 at 2:27:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 11:31:49PM +1200], [Alison Senepart] wrote:

| I agree with Dana. The human body is dependant on both emotional and
| physical needs and they interact to differing degrees for each person but
| both are necessary to make up the whole.    Some people can be really
| intelligent but lack basic common sense or empathy with others etc and still
| not be able to cope with life around them.   I reckon its all a case of
| balance yet again, same as food and anything else you do in life. It still
| comes back to dealing with yourself in the end.   Allison

| >>I personally don’t believe that intelligence is seperate from emotion.
| >>Emotionally intelligent people tend to adapt to life and society better
| >>than those who are emotionally immature. And this better adaption could be
| >>seen as an act of them having greater intelligence than the ones who are
| >>empty emotionally and live their lives complaining that they can never get
| >>ahead and no one loves them, etc. I think the heart and mind work together
| >>to create this thing called intelligence. I see it more holistically,
| >>whereas I used to see it as divided, like you do now.

I’d agree with what Dana said. I don’t really divide it as intelligence
and emotion, more a series of places you can have resonance with.

Just from my own experience, if you are in extremely negative spaces —
whatever they may be — if you apply focused intellect and reinforce that
with will, you can pull out of them … temporarily anyway. In the end
the only solution is to just drop it; accept it; integrate it, and none of
this is ever an intellectual sorta decision. It’s such an amazingly
beautiful thing when my mind finally shuts up. Entheogens are extremely
helpful in tearing down your reason, so you can think again.

Everything is a series of balances, a harmonic. Or it should be, when you
try to force it out of alignment, PieCeS start to blow out and come
raining down on the whole entire scenario. Which is a real bummer.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 29, 2002 at 2:05:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 10:17:10PM -0400], [R.A.Venglarcik] wrote:

| Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force. I was tired of my

| ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option. I told them all I
| knew. Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched, it
| seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. I’ve never done
| ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out. For
| whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed with
| it in my thoughts. I have been unable to force myself to actually
| pursue the career change…why? I love working with the people and
| ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. Coincidence? I Don’t know. But
| when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out bad.

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there. Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose. It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. Fucking ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 27, 2002 at 1:21:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 10:19:59AM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| Ordering on amazon with my next clicks 🙂
|
| My last part of the question would be then where does the hacking
| underground it into all of this? Why is patrick and mindvox and
| everything tied into the yippies??
|
| Thanks, this is fascinating. I was not even alive until the 80’s so I
| don’t know! Thanks for giving me the answer instead of laughing at my
| dumb question.

Mahn do you people all have a lot to say the last couple of daze… Will
scan through all this and reply here, to my mail, to my phone messages,
everything, any minute now. I promise. It’s not my fault I’m
dysfunctional, plus, also, have a real job, which isn’t this.

Do0d… Who the hell knows. Forget 6 degrees of seperation, try for
maybe 3 — as per a conversation I had with Howard, which is to true
that it’s funny, or not… Synchronicity, God works in strange ways.

TAP is where it all begins… TAP was the birthplace of ThA undergrOund.
Abbie Hoffman started this thing called YIPL (Youth International Party
Lines) which turned into TAP (Technological Assistance Program). We found
TAP when we were like 12, 13 years old, because we were online by then,
and meeting other phone phreaks. The internet wasn’t quite there, it was
more blue boxing and jamming up Step by Steps and Crossbars — which NYC
had a lot of, being a very old city. DMS and ESS, and CCIS (Closed
Circuit/Channel Interoffice Signaling) didn’t exist at most CO’s (Central
Offices, not Corrections Officers) yet.

TAP was this series of meetings on the lower east side in NYC, where there
were all these crazy old people who were very excited about technology and
shit. And we were a bunch of kids who were very smart and easy to
exploit, all they had to do was give us drugs and maybe buy us some food,
and we’d FIGURE THINGS OUT and SOLVE PROBLEMS. Whoops, no, I meant to
say, they saw the beautiful light, which is truth, which is knowledge,
shining within us and wanted to nurture it. Or infect us with whatever
they had, or sumthin…

But anyway, if my parents broke my mind, society stepped on the pieces,
then THOSE PEOPLE at TAP fine-tuned the wreckage and helped articulate the
ISSUES inside.

So, that was a huge part of our wasted youth. Pieman running around;
Agent 6 — who was very MySteRioUs, until we backed him out, pulled all
his shit, and found his Secret Identity! — all these 60’s do0dz, who did
stuff long before I was alive either. I missed the whole entire 60’s, I
was still on my last life back then.

Basically, THEY were our introduction to organized madness.

I had no idea what the fuck a Yippie is either. They were just all these
crazy old people who had good drugs =)

Patrick

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:33:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You have a great home page 🙂

Love the monochrome Mindvox logo too. phat.

.:vector:.

— nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:
i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness. fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like i
used
to be. keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st
century

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Psychedelic philanthropist and shareware leader dies
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:33:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/88590_obit26.shtml

Thursday, September 26, 2002

Psychedelic philanthropist and shareware leader dies

By D. PARVAZ
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Psychedelic philanthropist and computer shareware pioneer Bob Wallace
—
Microsoft Corp.’s ninth employee — died at his San Rafael, Calif.,
home
Friday. He was 53.

During the past decade, Mr. Wallace championed such psychoactive
drugs as
MDMA, or Ecstasy, donating up to $350,000 a year to groups studying
the
drug.

“MDMA seems to help reduce the fear people have of really looking at
themselves, and it really helps people communicate well,” Mr. Wallace
told
the Seattle Post-Intelligencer in May.

He said he had tried Ecstasy and felt it had “a lot of good
therapeutic
uses.” He also felt the drug helped people feel compassion.

Mr. Wallace and his wife started Mind Books in 1996, a company that
provided
publications about “mind-expanding plants and compounds.”

Rick Doblin, founder of the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic
Studies, described Mr. Wallace as a generous donor who quietly
supported
MAPS and other drug-research groups.

Mr. Wallace “had the rare courage of his convictions,” Doblin said.
“He had
a sense that we are overdeveloped intellectually and underdeveloped
emotionally.”

A talented computer programmer, Mr. Wallace was born in Washington,
D.C. He
attended Brown University in 1967.

In the 1970s, he moved to Seattle, where he worked at the city’s
first
personal-computer store and attended the University of Washington.

In 1978, after Bill Gates posted a sign on campus looking for
programmers
for his fledgling company, Mr. Wallace started working at Microsoft
as a
production manager and software designer. That year, he earned a
graduate
degree in computer science.

He left Microsoft in 1983 to start a Bellevue-based software company,
QuickSoft, producing a word-processing program called PC-WRITE. Mr.
Wallace
distributed the program free of charge, but users who paid a fee had
access
to added functions. He dubbed his software “shareware” and is
credited for
coining the term.

“My philosophy is that I want to make a living, not a killing,” he
once told
writer and software expert Michael Callahan.

Users who distributed Mr. Wallace’s shareware would also get a
commission if
anyone they distributed the software to paid fees.

“Nobody else ever did that; nobody else even tried that. He was the
only
one,” Callahan said.

“He helped as many people as he could. It was how he felt about
business,”
said Callahan, adding that Mr. Wallace often joked that his business
philosophy prevented him from becoming more successful.

Mr. Wallace helped found the Washington Software Association in 1985,
and
married Megan Dana, an artist and QuickSoft employee, the following
year.

The couple, who had no children, separated just over a year ago, but
remained close.

Mr. Wallace sold QuickSoft to another former Microsoft employee in
1991, and
seemed to focus more intensely on researching psychedelic drugs,
becoming
socially active within the community in recent months.

Doblin last saw Mr. Wallace in April at a dinner party.

“He looked happy,” said Doblin, noting that Mr. Wallace had a new
girlfriend
and was in the process of getting an amicable divorce.

Mr. Wallace died after a bout with pneumonia, according to Marin
County
coroner Kenneth Holmes.

P-I reporter D. Parvaz can be reached at 206-448-8095 or
dparvaz@seattlepi.com

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:38:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana what’s the difference between the yippies and hippies?

I wanted to post that also since a little while ago I am starting to
get emails from people asking me where to buy ibogaine. These emails
are not coming from yahoo or hotmail accounts they are all coming from
different internet accounts. I don’t know why anyone is sending these
questions to me because I don’t know.

I’m not posting their names because I don’t want everyone to be all
paranoid of them but it’s a little strange that these people are
filling up my email asking this when there is a guy who just posted
photos of his ibogaine plants and runs a cool entheogen shop in canada.
Why ask me?

Go look it up.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I don’t have any ibogaine and don’t know where to get it in the united
states.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:38:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When it comes to unregulated herbs, you have to pay good money to get good
quality. Yes, ephedra’s derivatives like ephedrine are used to make
amphetamine. But I’d order my ephedra from this great place off the
web—the shamanshop has great quality, but this was before I discovered
it—-and I’d get no jitteries, while I’d also easily see why this stuff
has been used as an entheogin for so long. It’s all about quality. After
sleeping, I’d wake up very alert, with a nice small buzz of it still in me,
to get me through the day. Meanwhile, it’s derivates, like crystal meth,
are only good for killing your soul and making you into a paranoid,
non-human, machine of satanic fury.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Ephedra is very similar to amphetamines…I believe it’s used to make
methamphetamine. My past experience with amphetamines was wakefulness,
but jittery-feeling, then a crash requiring much more than 8 hours
recovery time, and wake up feeling kinda nasty. Ritalin,
methylphenidate, is an amphetamine. Lots of abuse potential. I guess one
could use it to stay up for 40 hours, but it wouldn’t be pretty I would
surmise. From what I’ve been reading, Modafinil (provigil) looks real
promising…the new caffeine.

Ephedra sort of did me the same way as too much caffeine. Jittery.
Hard rate increase. Blood pressure increase. All around felt rather
nasty on a “standard” dose.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 06:22PM >>>
I’m talking Ephedra, not amphetines. Same thing. Stay awake and feel
clear-headed and effective for days. Go to sleep and you’ll return to
normal. But I’m talking Ephedra, not ephedrine or any other chemically
synthetic derivation. I’m speaking from personal experience here in
saying
it’s the same, but it also sounds like Modadfinil is very promising.
I’m
suddenly interested in that one. Ritalin apparently has some kind of
wide-awake effect. I think the pharmaceutical company is called Orphan,
and
this company recently patented something called….is it, Xyrem?…for
narcolepsy. The Europeans have been using this form of GHB to treat
narolepsy and depression for awhile now, but, of course they have a
purer
idea of medicine than we do. They want to heal people, but we too
often
want to profit. Anyways, GHB has what is called a ‘bimodal effect.’
Depressed people will see God on it, while non-depressed people will go
to
sleep and not see much in it at all. It looks like this applies to
narcolepsy. Where it makes normal people groggy, Xyrem will keep
naroleptics awake.

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8
hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal
sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to
published
info. I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and
sometimes
interacts with SEALS. No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential. Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness. fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants
like
i
used
to be. keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

————————————————————————-
—
—–

—————————————————————————
—–

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:33:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ephedra sort of did me the same way as too much caffeine. Jittery.
Hard rate increase. Blood pressure increase. All around felt rather
nasty on a “standard” dose.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

—————————————————————————
—–

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:22:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m talking Ephedra, not amphetines. Same thing. Stay awake and feel
clear-headed and effective for days. Go to sleep and you’ll return to
normal. But I’m talking Ephedra, not ephedrine or any other chemically
synthetic derivation. I’m speaking from personal experience here in saying
it’s the same, but it also sounds like Modadfinil is very promising. I’m
suddenly interested in that one. Ritalin apparently has some kind of
wide-awake effect. I think the pharmaceutical company is called Orphan, and
this company recently patented something called….is it, Xyrem?…for
narcolepsy. The Europeans have been using this form of GHB to treat
narolepsy and depression for awhile now, but, of course they have a purer
idea of medicine than we do. They want to heal people, but we too often
want to profit. Anyways, GHB has what is called a ‘bimodal effect.’
Depressed people will see God on it, while non-depressed people will go to
sleep and not see much in it at all. It looks like this applies to
narcolepsy. Where it makes normal people groggy, Xyrem will keep
naroleptics awake.

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8 hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to published
info. I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and sometimes
interacts with SEALS. No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential. Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness. fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like
i
used
to be. keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

—————————————————————————
—–

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:12:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8 hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to published
info. I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and sometimes
interacts with SEALS. No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential. Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness. fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like
i
used
to be. keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 5:58:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness. fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like i
used
to be. keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. works… perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 5:55:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness. fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like i used
to be. keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. works… perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem <– research chemical porpaganda 21st century

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton, VA 23666

Office: (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax: (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] kratom
Date: September 26, 2002 at 5:19:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Sun, 15 Sep 2002
Source: Bangkok Post (Thailand)
Copyright: The Post Publishing Public Co., Ltd. 2002
Contact: postbag@bangkokpost.net
Website: http://www.bangkokpost.co.th/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/39

PLANT EYED AS TREATMENT FOR SPEED ADDICTS

Senate Mulls Lifting Of Ban On ‘Krathom’

Asenate committee is visiting the South to study a proposal to remove the
stimulant plant krathom from the government’s list of banned substances,
enabling it to be used in the treatment of methamphetamine addicts.

The proposal to introduce krathom as a methamphetamine substitute was put
forward by politicians after research in Japan and Australia found it could
be used in place of morphine during surgery, said Pinya Chuayplod, panel
chairman.

“If other countries turn krathom into a valuable asset, who will take
responsibility for the loss to the nation?” he asked.

After completing its studies, the panel planned to push for law amendments
removing the plant from the list of banned substances.

“If the government refuses, we will submit a petition in support of the law
amendments,” Mr Pinya said. “We should be able to get the required 50,000
signatures in the South alone.”
– —

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1733.a05.html

From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Iboga seedling @2 weeks
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:26:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Precious……..isn’t it

J. Callan
Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-0540
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
—– Original Message —–
From: Vector Vector
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] picking up rich 12 step women

— Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick is somebody different. He’s really smart and talented and
> everything and we’re all here because of Mindvox but it is what
> Rick said in the reply, that’s his journey it may not be exactly
> yours and it wasn’t mine.

Patrick is crazy. In a great way. That’s it.

> I’ve got nearly 2 years clean now, I did ibogaine about 2 months
> ago and will probably do it again because it helps so much bro.
> But what works for me is nature, I love the mountains I like
> getting away from all the things that stress me. I don’t do any 12
> step stuff either, except once in a while. Because the problem I
> have is I don’t know where to go to party anymore. I don’t go to
> bars or clubs because for me that would make me relapse so fast.
> So what do I do? Going to a meeting is the one place I can arrive
> and it’s like I’m king of the hill because I have 2 years and
> there is always some hottie who needs to be saved.
>
> Who am I to say no? 🙂
>

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09182002/news/regionalnews/57318.htm

How to meet rich 12 step women 🙂

CITY’S ‘LOADED’ WITH WOMEN

By BILL HOFFMANN
——————————————————————————–

– NYP: David Rentas

September 18, 2002 —
Want to marry a millionairess? You’re in the right place.

The Big Apple is home to the world’s top four hotspots where meeting
female millionaires is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel, says
Details magazine.

And the No. 1 location to score a megabucks babe is an Alcoholics
Anonymous center on the Upper East Side.

“It’s the choicest meeting in town, right next to the Ralph Lauren
store” on Madison Avenue, which features “rich vulnerable women,” the
mag’s October issue says.

AA officials, who asked that the address of the meeting center not be
named, were mortified by the ranking.

“The purpose of our meetings is to let people share their experiences
and help others find sobriety. It is not a place to pick up women!” an
AA spokesman told The Post.

The Racquet and Tennis Club, 370 Park Ave., rated No. 2 as a place
where bachelors can scoop up women who are “dull as mayonnaise” but
have “stacks of dough.”

Robert Gressler, general manager of the club sniffed: “I have no idea
why someone would compile a list like that.”

Next were Cipriani at Fifth Avenue and 59th Street, described as a
major “hunting ground,” and Swifty’s, “the favorite watering hole of
Upper East Side society.”

Hassan Elgarrahy, general manager of Cipriani, wasn’t impressed by his
eatery’s ranking, saying: “Everybody who comes to Cipriani is rich in
their heart and important to us. We make no exclusions.”

Over at Swifty’s on Lexington Avenue and 72nd Street, co-owner Robert
Caravaggi was “thrilled and flattered. We have a lot of ladies who come
here. I don’t know if they are all available, but they come.”

New York summer hotspots also take top spots on the international Top
10 list. At No. 5 and No. 6 are the Piping Rock Club on Long Island’s
North Shore and the Bridgehampton Polo Club in the Hamptons

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Anarchist ‘Scavenger Hunt’ Raises D.C. Police Ire
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:24:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick maybe all of you should just pretend everything really was Day
Brown’s fault and nuke him for his own good. just thinking out loud.

.:vector:.

See there? Hostility. It intrigues how he engenders all this hostility. I
actually told him, when I told him about these lists, that the Vox list was
a place just to goof around and have fun, and he’d be wise not to sit there
and preach his 30 page philosophies to everyone, but he totally ignored me.
In the two years I’ve known him, I’m just now seeing raw and total insanity
coming through in his posts. It’s rather funny sometimes. Hope he’s
handling it OK. When the insanity comes, my philosophy is to go with it,
embrace it, love it. Those who don’t wind up in asylums; those who do wind
up writing and producing great art and such. blahblabhblabblahblah…I’d
actually be interested in seeing what happens to someone who fucks around
with someone who’s been hacking since the sixties and knows computers as
much as he does.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Anarchist ‘Scavenger Hunt’ Raises D.C. Police
Ire

Whatever the problem last night everything is ok now. Day Brown will
not be silenced that easily.

Letter 1 of 3 so far.

Patrick maybe all of you should just pretend everything really was Day
Brown’s fault and nuke him for his own good. just thinking out loud.

.:vector:.

— Day Brown <daybrown@ozarkisp.net> wrote:
Wilmot Kidd wrote:
yo dogg, you’re always pulling the testosterone card.
its cool man, lemme break it down
some dudes are just crazy
and some dudes just put the G in the P
I’m not sure of your nomenclature. But the conventional lack of
wisdom which academic sociologists and psychologists suffer from has
permitted them to explore several parameters which affect the way
individual and societies develop. I discuss Alphaism because the
primate studies show that it has a profoundly powerful effect on
individual behavior and social development, but it has not been
applied to hominids. Even tho there are innumerable studies,
(maslow’s monkeys) trying to prove things about the way humans
develop by studying primates. Yerkes Primate lab at Mandeville LA is
prolly well worth the surfing.

But even at that, it aint only testosterone. Seratonin levels are
also DNA driven, and prolly several more so far undetected
biochemistries and their effect on pre-natal neural development.

You need a multidimensional graph. Those with IQ too low are cannon
fodder, not much of a problem. Those with higher levels of
testosterone and high levels of seratonin and higher IQ have the
personal insight into their own behavior and can displace Alpha
aggression into very productive domains.

But now you’re talking about a very small percentage. Of the 100 in
the US senate, there are only a few like Sen Biden, who are not
pompous asses.

Which brings us to the lower seratonin, high testosterone, smart
alpha.
This is demogogue material. Bad sleep habits, prone to alcoholism,
but very motivated. And as we see, these turkeys get huge followings
of the dimmer male bulbs. And all the good of the good minds can be
blown away by the terrorism and tyranny which the demogogues create.

I dont see anyway to disempower the demogogues without matriarchy.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] picking up rich 12 step women
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:21:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Patrick is crazy. In a great way. That’s it.

I’ve got nearly 2 years clean now, I did ibogaine about 2 months
ago and will probably do it again because it helps so much bro.
But what works for me is nature, I love the mountains I like
getting away from all the things that stress me. I don’t do any 12
step stuff either, except once in a while. Because the problem I
have is I don’t know where to go to party anymore. I don’t go to
bars or clubs because for me that would make me relapse so fast.
So what do I do? Going to a meeting is the one place I can arrive
and it’s like I’m king of the hill because I have 2 years and
there is always some hottie who needs to be saved.

Who am I to say no? 🙂

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09182002/news/regionalnews/57318.htm

How to meet rich 12 step women 🙂

CITY’S LOADED’ WITH WOMEN