Ibogaine List Archives – 2002-09

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 30, 2002 at 5:33:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Your addiction series is good but this one letter is excellent.

Almost everything in one place. I’m printing it now ūüôā

Perfect ūüôā

On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:27:39
Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn.  In the extremely near future we are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled with
God.  Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
| know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Do0d, I’m not you. ¬†I can’t hand you a roadmap and say, okay, follow this
exactly and you’ll obtain whatever results you want. ¬†Although, get back
to be ’round 2004 or so, I should have the hang of that shaktipat thing by
then.

Heroin is extreme numbness; it ain’t demonic possession, it’s just a
molecule. ¬†Look at it as the left-hand path of tantra, chemical Zen. ¬†It’s
pretty fucking cool.  There are just states that are beyond this.  Godhead
is one killer fucking rush.  I love to get high.  Shift focus; addiction
is just energy… ¬†A LOT of it. ¬†Instead of pretending it’s not there, or
trying to make deals with it, which doesn’t work because it’s not
listening; ride the lightning.  Focus and direct it where you want it to
go. ¬†Who gives a fuck about being “normal,” whatever that means exactly.

To cop a line from Jung, addiction is a hole in your soul, where the
connection to God is missing.  This is pretty much exactly correct.  And
I’d say you would be in a good space if you can establish or re-establish
your personal conduit into all this; but I’m not exactly sure even that is
necessary.

Without taking a long detour, I know two people who I hang out with
sometimes; one was a junkie for 22 years, then managed to kick, smoked pot
for a decade, and has now entered a My Body is My Temple phase, goes to
the gym 4 hours a day, doesn’t drink coffee, smoke, or eat anything that
isn’t Holistic and Natural. ¬†He’s also an incredibly fucking annoying
human being, “Patrick, have I mentioned in the last 5 minutes that you
need to stop smoking?  Steak is evil, and there are natural substitutes
for aspirin…” ¬†Uhm, thanks for sharing mahn.

The other dude had a roughly 25 year long methamphetamine run, woke up one
day and decided it was getting old, went back to school, runs a store now,
builds motorcycles, plus, also, works out 4 hours a day (there is a
pattern here).  He appears to have found some sort of spiritual belief
system in the works of this entity named Krylon — which apparently isn’t
just spray paint for tagging up anymore.  Krylon is channeled by somebody;
and he’s this God or Demon, or Energy Collective or something, which
either makes the magnetic poles of the earth shift every few thousand
decades, or he is just in charge of watching this and kinda commemorating
the event. ¬†Sadly I’m uncertain which it is, since I never pay that close
attention to the details of the scenario when it is patiently explained to
me.

But anyway, neither one is exactly what I’d called Filled with God.
Neither one thinks much of therapy or the concept of “recovery.”
Neither one does the 12-step stuff, although not having had people attempt
to dump them into that paradigm against their will, they don’t exhibit a
violent psychotic reaction to it, like some of us may at times.  To
summarize both their opinions on it, it’d be more of a Hovering Question
Mark, “I felt like shit, people said I should go to this meeting because
it’d make me feel better, so, okay, why not. ¬†Then I went there and it’s
this room completely filled with whiny people complaining about shit.  It
really depressed me, never went back. ¬†I don’t get it.”

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common?  Well, working out FUCKING HELPS.  Period.
Beyond that; not much. ¬†Except they BELIEVE they can do what they’re
doing.  Which is all it takes.

But YOU hafta do it.  Whatever IT happens to be.  Unfortunately the answer
to how you get from over there, to here; is not lining up molecules [A],
[B], [C] in the proper order.  Although, that too helps a whole fuckova
lot.

Ibogaine will get you unsprung. ¬†After that, it’s a question of whatever
you do to connect yourself to someplace positive.  You need to keep doing
it.  Otherwise you will fall on your face and get torn down by reality.
The World is a Vampire.

Patrick

____________________________________________________________
Tired of all the SPAM in your inbox? Switch to LYCOS MAIL PLUS
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From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: replacing addiction with exercise.
Date: September 30, 2002 at 1:29:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison,

Speaking for myself I have found that ANYTHING that
feels good can re-direct my addiction. It can be work,
some hobby, exercise, money, sex (that was fun)…,
anything. I don’t look at it as replacement of
addiction, just moving it from one thing to another
(eg drugs to exercise, drugs to sex, drugs to food) if
it is done in an addictive way – TOO MUCH at the
expense of all else. I have found what works for me it
is far better to HARNESS that energy and direct it
without letting it get away with itself. I throw
myself INTO things (using my addiction to my
advantage) but don’t get carried away with it or stuck
there, no MORE, MORE, MORE syndrome, but I do fall
into it for brief periods to accomplish things – like
getting in shape or my Orchid “addiction”, currently
re-modeling the kitchen or painting the house and then
move on to something else.

Nothing wrong with a good endorphin boost/rush, it is
good in recovery from drug addiction, for some
ANYTHING AS LONG AS THEY ARE NOT USING is fine with
them (12 steppers often do it that way).

Brett

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
When you kick drugs and then not know what to do
with yourself the best
thing for most people is exercise cos it releases
natural endorphines in
your body which do the same sort of job that drugs
did chemically.
Anyways, that it how I understand it.  Once you can
get yourself over that
horrible lethargic, sick period your body is crying
out for something???
You want to eat and then after a couple of
mouthfulls your sick of it,  you
want to drink and then thats not satisfying either.
Then when you get to
exercise it sort of kicks something into gear in
your body that stimulates a
happy feeling so you keep doing it.  However, its
just as easy to get hooked
on exercise as it is drugs.  You can do a couple of
days a week and feel
good and then it sort of creeps up on you that your
doing 3 or 4 days and
then you start worrying if you miss a day etc.
Anyone else been through
that one.   I was told that it was a reaction to
endorphine release in the
nervous system which is similar to or the same as
what opiates do.   Does
anyone else have more info or opinions on all that.
Allison
PS  Is Katrina out there.  If you are,  Hows it
going????
—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 30 September 2002 08:40
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction
ibogaine this list everything

On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700],
[Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me
some hours of thought to
write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn.  In the extremely
near future we are
going to start a support group for people who are
Completely Filled with
God.  Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all
varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with
Enlightenment, are all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a
recovery site. I still don’t
know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of
crack, heroin,
psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic,
running out of meds, the
treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip
offs, the list is endless.
You
| know the list, you write about the degredation
and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You
know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know
this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve
already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m
dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you
do? H O W ????? Don’t
tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done
psychedelics and none who
have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t
tell me ibogaine
because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more,
but I’m not seeing
anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then
what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Do0d, I’m not you. ¬†I can’t hand you a roadmap and
say, okay, follow this
exactly and you’ll obtain whatever results you
want.  Although, get back
to be ’round 2004 or so, I should have the hang of
that shaktipat thing by
then.

Heroin is extreme numbness; it ain’t demonic
possession, it’s just a
molecule.  Look at it as the left-hand path of
tantra, chemical Zen. ¬†It’s
pretty fucking cool.  There are just states that
are beyond this.  Godhead
is one killer fucking rush.  I love to get high.
Shift focus; addiction
is just energy… ¬†A LOT of it. ¬†Instead of
pretending it’s not there, or
trying to make deals with it, which doesn’t work
because it’s not
listening; ride the lightning.  Focus and direct it
where you want it to
go. ¬†Who gives a fuck about being “normal,”
whatever that means exactly.

To cop a line from Jung, addiction is a hole in
your soul, where the
connection to God is missing.  This is pretty much
exactly correct.  And
I’d say you would be in a good space if you can
establish or re-establish
your personal conduit into all this; but I’m not
exactly sure even that is
necessary.

Without taking a long detour, I know two people who
I hang out with
sometimes; one was a junkie for 22 years, then
managed to kick, smoked pot
for a decade, and has now entered a My Body is My
Temple phase, goes to
the gym 4 hours a day, doesn’t drink coffee, smoke,
or eat anything that
isn’t Holistic and Natural. ¬†He’s also an
incredibly fucking annoying
human being, “Patrick, have I mentioned in the last
5 minutes that you
need to stop smoking?  Steak is evil, and there are
natural substitutes
for aspirin…” ¬†Uhm, thanks for sharing mahn.

The other dude had a roughly 25 year long
methamphetamine run, woke up one
day and decided it was getting old, went back to
school, runs a store now,
builds motorcycles, plus, also, works out 4 hours a
day (there is a
pattern here).  He appears to have found some sort
of spiritual belief
system in the works of this entity named Krylon —
which apparently isn’t
just spray paint for tagging up anymore.  Krylon is
channeled by somebody;
and he’s this God or Demon, or Energy Collective or
something, which
either makes the magnetic poles of the earth shift
every few thousand
decades, or he is just in charge of watching this
and kinda commemorating
the event. ¬†Sadly I’m uncertain which it is, since
I never pay that close
attention to the details of the scenario when it is
patiently explained to
me.

But anyway, neither one is exactly what I’d called
Filled with God.
Neither one thinks much of therapy or the concept
of “recovery.”
Neither one does the 12-step stuff, although not
having had people attempt
to dump them into that paradigm against their will,
they don’t exhibit a
violent psychotic reaction to it, like some of us
may at times.  To
summarize both their opinions on it, it’d be more
of a Hovering Question
Mark, “I felt like shit, people said I should go to
this meeting because
it’d make me feel better, so, okay, why not. ¬†Then
I went there and it’s
this room completely filled with whiny people
complaining about shit.  It
really depressed me, never went back. ¬†I don’t get
it.”

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more
than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common?  Well, working out
FUCKING HELPS.  Period.
Beyond that; not much.  Except they BELIEVE they
can do what they’re
doing.  Which is all it takes.

But YOU hafta do it.  Whatever IT happens to be.
Unfortunately the answer
to how you get from over there, to here; is not
lining up molecules [A],
[B], [C] in the proper order.  Although, that too
helps a whole fuckova
lot.

Ibogaine will get you unsprung. ¬†After that, it’s a
question of whatever
you do to connect yourself to someplace positive.
You need to keep doing
it.  Otherwise you will fall on your face and get
torn down by reality.
The World is a Vampire.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 30, 2002 at 1:09:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

All of you should book a flight with the philip k. dick travel agency
and go give him some ūüôā

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 10:17:10PM -0400], [R.A.Venglarcik] wrote:

| Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force.  I was tired
of my

| ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option.  I told them
all I
| knew.  Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched,
it
| seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. ¬†I’ve never
done
| ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out.
For
| whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed
with
| it in my thoughts.  I have been unable to force myself to actually
| pursue the career change…why? ¬†I love working with the people and
| ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. ¬†Coincidence? I Don’t know.
But
| when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out
bad.

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine
would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there.  Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose.  It
must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with
it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. ¬†Fucking
ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 30, 2002 at 12:58:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick this in no way is meant to disrespect you. You’re a genius,
Mindvox is great, you write really well. I don’t know anything about
addiction or godhead so I can’t say about that part but.

Dogg I’m taking notes here, you get laid a lot don’t you?

Your line of bullshit is amazing, everything with a pussy that wears
bellbottoms and smokes pot is listening ūüôā Not to forget the acidheads
ūüôā

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought
to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn.  In the extremely near future we
are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled
with
God.  Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are
all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still
don’t know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin,
psychiatrists,

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [drugwar] Fw: MAPS Press Release about MDMA Study
Date: September 30, 2002 at 8:29:27 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Joshua Tinnin
To: maptalk ; dpfca@drugsense.org ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:35 AM
Subject: [drugwar] Fw: MAPS Press Release about MDMA Study

Forum readers:

Below is MAPS’ first-ever press release, which worked rather well. We got
our
perspective presented in the NYTimes and Washington Post, AP wire service
articles, and numerous newspapers.  We failed to get our perspective
considered for the NPR story or the BBC story and in other media outlets.

The crucial point is that there are direct human data from two brain scan
studies and one post-mortem autopsy of a heavy Ecstasy abuser showing NO
impact of MDMA on dopamine levels. There are also several spinal tap studies
conducted by George Ricaurte that show NO affect of MDMA on dopamine
metabolite levels in spinal fluid (Ouch- I was tapped twice for two of these
studies).

The chance that MDMA will cause Parkinson’s is close to zero. Here is an
excerpt from the New Scientist article:

“Robert Meadowcroft, policy director of the UK’s Parkinson’s Disease
Society,
told New Scientist that there is no evidence early-onset Parkinson’s disease
is on the increase or that former MDMA users are turning up at clinics with
Parkinson’s symptoms. This is despite the fact that the drug has been widely
used since the early 1980s.

“If the drug, used in large quantities, were responsible for the young-onset
of Parkinson’s disease we might have expected to see some early evidence of
this,” says Adrian Williams, a neurologist at the University of Birmingham
in
the UK. Another recreational drug from the 1980s, called MTMP, did cause
Parkinsonism and was detected very quickly when users presented with severe
symptoms.”

Here’s the press release:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE       CONTACT:    Rick Doblin (617) 484-8711
September 26, 2002                                      Tony Newman (510)
812-3126

Scientists Sharply Criticize Conclusions
of New MDMA (Ecstasy) Report

Test Monkeys Injected With Deadly Doses of Drug;
Study Did Not Simulate Human Use

Drug Education Experts Warn: Hyperbole Discredits Message

Scientists have expressed strong criticism of a new report about MDMA to be
published in the journal Science on September 27.  The primate study, by Dr.
George Ricaurte and colleagues, reports that MDMA ‚Äď or Ecstasy ‚Äď damages
dopamine neurons in the brain, and suggests that such damage indicates that
MDMA may cause Parkinson’s disease in humans.

Critics, pointing to questionable assumptions in Dr. Ricaurte’s report,
say it suggests no such thing.  And they express concern about the hysteria
often generated by exaggerated estimates of drug-related harms ‚Äď which, they
say, can hinder the efforts of parents and teachers to establish open,
honest
dialogue with young people about drug use.

Dr. Juan Sanchez-Ramos, Ellis Professor of Neurology, University of South
Florida, and an expert in Parkinson’s and dopaminergic neurotoxicity, said,
“The multiple dose regimen of injected MDMA administered by Dr. Ricaurte to
primates does not simulate human exposure, does not cause cell death, and
does not predict anything about human vulnerability to Parkinson’s as a
result of MDMA. In fact, Dr. Ricaurte’s study shows that it is far easier to
kill whole animals than to kill neurons.”

According to youth drug education experts, it is counterproductive to
overstate and misrepresent the harms of drug use.  But they say that all too
often, research results ‚Äď and the way they are promoted and used — are
driven more by drug war politics and a scare tactics philosophy than by
scientific principle.

“Like everyone, young people stop trusting you when you bend the truth to
scare them,” said Marsha Rosenbaum, director of the Safety First Project of
the Drug Policy Alliance. “Good science, not misguided fear, is what helps
us
talk honestly and effectively with our teenagers about drug use and their
safety.”

Scientists pointed to several important flaws in the Science report:

1) The doses administered are not representative of human doses

The paper‚Äôs prepublication title, “Severe Dopaminergic Neurotoxicity in
Primates after a Single Recreational Dose Regime of MDMA (Ecstasy),”
suggests
it provides evidence about the effects of a single recreational dose of
MDMA.
In fact, however, all but two of the primates in the study were actually
injected with three doses of MDMA within a 6-hour period. This multiple
dosage regime killed 20% of the animals (2 out of 10), and possibly would
have killed another 20% except for the fact that signs of distress caused
the
researchers not to administer the third injection.

Dr. Ricaurte and colleagues claim that according to their interspecies
scaling model, which they use to estimate the human equivalents of the doses
administered to animals, ¬†“individual doses of MDMA administered in this
study are lower than those typically used by humans‚Ķ” ¬†It is difficult to
believe, say critics, that a dose regimen this fatal is equivalent to
amounts
commonly self-administered by humans, in which fatal reactions are
exceptionally rare.  Critics say this difference in lethality further calls
into question the validity of the interspecies scaling model used by Dr.
Ricaurte and colleagues.

2) Data from actual human studies shows no dopamine reductions from MDMA

Dr. Ricaurte and colleagues suggest that individuals taking MDMA may have
analogous dopamine changes with increased risk of Parkinson’s Disease.
However, they failed to cite several recent human brain scan studies and a
post-mortem autopsy study that found normal dopamine systems in very
experienced illicit MDMA users. These human studies suggest that MDMA may
not
result in dopamine changes in humans.

Dr. Ricaurte and colleagues have themselves carried out human spinal tap
studies in very experienced MDMA users and found no evidence to indicate
lowered dopamine metabolites. These spinal tap studies, also not cited in
the
Science article, are an indirect measure of possible Parkinson’s risk and
have been superseded by more accurate brain scan and autopsy studies

3) There is no proven link between Parkinson’s and amphetamine or
methamphetamine

The dopamine changes produced by MDMA in this study are similar to those
caused by d-amphetamine and d-methamphetamine, two drugs that are
structurally and functionally
similar to MDMA and are legally available as prescription medicines at
present and for more than half a century.  During that time there has been
no
convincing evidence linking these dopamine changes to Parkinson’s Disease.
This suggests that more evidence is needed before linking the dopaminergic
changes produced by Dr Ricaurte’s multiple dose regime to neurological
disease in humans.

Risk/Benefit Analysis for MDMA/PTSD Psychotherapy Research

The FDA has approved a study into the use of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy in
the treatment of patients with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD).
Patients must have failed to obtain relief from at least one course of
treatment with a serotonin-selective reuptake inhibitor (SSRI), such as
Zoloft, Paxil or Prozac, the only type of medicine FDA-approved for PTSD.
This study will involve two oral administrations, three to five weeks apart,
of a single dose of 125 mgs of MDMA in an air-conditioned room with subjects
reclining on a couch and drinking an adequate amount of fluids. According to
Rick Doblin, Ph.D., President of the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic Studies (MAPS, www.maps.org), the non-profit organization that
is
sponsoring the MDMA/PTSD study, “It has taken 17 years since MDMA was made
illegal in 1985 before a double-blind, placebo-controlled study of the
therapeutic use of MDMA has been approved by the FDA. During that time, over
260 people worldwide have already been administered MDMA in clinical
research
studies focused on evaluating various aspects of the safety of MDMA, without
demonstrating evidence of harm to those human subjects. Dr. Ricaurte’s
latest
findings do not significantly change the risk/benefit ratio for the subjects
who will volunteer for our study. MDMA/PTSD research remains scientifically
and ethically justified.”

For additional information, contact:

Juan Sanchez-Ramos, PhD, MD
expert in Parkinson’s and in dopaminergic neurotoxicity.
Ellis Professor of Neurology
University of South Florida
12901 Bruce B Downs Blvd (MDC 55)
Tampa, FL 33620
Academic Office phone: 813-974-5841 or 6022
office FAX: 813-974-7200; jsramos@hsc.usf.edu

Dr. Jim O’Callaghan, Chief, Molecular Neurotoxicology Lab, Center for
Disease
Control. jdo5@cdc.gov
NOTE: Dr. O’Callaghan can answer questions about neurotoxicity  but any
quotes attributed to him need to be cleared by Fred Blosser, Public Affairs
Officer, CDC-NIOSH
202-401-3749
FBlosser@cdc.gov.

Rick Doblin, Ph.D.
President, Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS)
617 484-8711
rick@maps.org
www.maps.org

Marsha Rosenbaum, Ph.D.
Director, Safety First Project
Drug Policy Alliance
415-982-3277

##

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From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: replacing addiction with exercise.
Date: September 30, 2002 at 6:43:25 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When you kick drugs and then not know what to do with yourself the best
thing for most people is exercise cos it releases natural endorphines in
your body which do the same sort of job that drugs did chemically.
Anyways, that it how I understand it.  Once you can get yourself over that
horrible lethargic, sick period your body is crying out for something???
You want to eat and then after a couple of mouthfulls your sick of it,  you
want to drink and then thats not satisfying either.  Then when you get to
exercise it sort of kicks something into gear in your body that stimulates a
happy feeling so you keep doing it.  However, its just as easy to get hooked
on exercise as it is drugs.  You can do a couple of days a week and feel
good and then it sort of creeps up on you that your doing 3 or 4 days and
then you start worrying if you miss a day etc.  Anyone else been through
that one.   I was told that it was a reaction to endorphine release in the
nervous system which is similar to or the same as what opiates do.   Does
anyone else have more info or opinions on all that.   Allison
PS  Is Katrina out there.  If you are,  Hows it going????
—–Original Message—–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 30 September 2002 08:40
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything

On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to
write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn.  In the extremely near future we are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled with
God.  Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t
know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin,
psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the
treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless.
You
| know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t
tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who
have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine
because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing
anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Do0d, I’m not you. ¬†I can’t hand you a roadmap and say, okay, follow this
exactly and you’ll obtain whatever results you want. ¬†Although, get back
to be ’round 2004 or so, I should have the hang of that shaktipat thing by
then.

Heroin is extreme numbness; it ain’t demonic possession, it’s just a
molecule. ¬†Look at it as the left-hand path of tantra, chemical Zen. ¬†It’s
pretty fucking cool.  There are just states that are beyond this.  Godhead
is one killer fucking rush.  I love to get high.  Shift focus; addiction
is just energy… ¬†A LOT of it. ¬†Instead of pretending it’s not there, or
trying to make deals with it, which doesn’t work because it’s not
listening; ride the lightning.  Focus and direct it where you want it to
go. ¬†Who gives a fuck about being “normal,” whatever that means exactly.

To cop a line from Jung, addiction is a hole in your soul, where the
connection to God is missing.  This is pretty much exactly correct.  And
I’d say you would be in a good space if you can establish or re-establish
your personal conduit into all this; but I’m not exactly sure even that is
necessary.

Without taking a long detour, I know two people who I hang out with
sometimes; one was a junkie for 22 years, then managed to kick, smoked pot
for a decade, and has now entered a My Body is My Temple phase, goes to
the gym 4 hours a day, doesn’t drink coffee, smoke, or eat anything that
isn’t Holistic and Natural. ¬†He’s also an incredibly fucking annoying
human being, “Patrick, have I mentioned in the last 5 minutes that you
need to stop smoking?  Steak is evil, and there are natural substitutes
for aspirin…” ¬†Uhm, thanks for sharing mahn.

The other dude had a roughly 25 year long methamphetamine run, woke up one
day and decided it was getting old, went back to school, runs a store now,
builds motorcycles, plus, also, works out 4 hours a day (there is a
pattern here).  He appears to have found some sort of spiritual belief
system in the works of this entity named Krylon — which apparently isn’t
just spray paint for tagging up anymore.  Krylon is channeled by somebody;
and he’s this God or Demon, or Energy Collective or something, which
either makes the magnetic poles of the earth shift every few thousand
decades, or he is just in charge of watching this and kinda commemorating
the event. ¬†Sadly I’m uncertain which it is, since I never pay that close
attention to the details of the scenario when it is patiently explained to
me.

But anyway, neither one is exactly what I’d called Filled with God.
Neither one thinks much of therapy or the concept of “recovery.”
Neither one does the 12-step stuff, although not having had people attempt
to dump them into that paradigm against their will, they don’t exhibit a
violent psychotic reaction to it, like some of us may at times.  To
summarize both their opinions on it, it’d be more of a Hovering Question
Mark, “I felt like shit, people said I should go to this meeting because
it’d make me feel better, so, okay, why not. ¬†Then I went there and it’s
this room completely filled with whiny people complaining about shit.  It
really depressed me, never went back. ¬†I don’t get it.”

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common?  Well, working out FUCKING HELPS.  Period.
Beyond that; not much. ¬†Except they BELIEVE they can do what they’re
doing.  Which is all it takes.

But YOU hafta do it.  Whatever IT happens to be.  Unfortunately the answer
to how you get from over there, to here; is not lining up molecules [A],
[B], [C] in the proper order.  Although, that too helps a whole fuckova
lot.

Ibogaine will get you unsprung. ¬†After that, it’s a question of whatever
you do to connect yourself to someplace positive.  You need to keep doing
it.  Otherwise you will fall on your face and get torn down by reality.
The World is a Vampire.

Patrick

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 29, 2002 at 11:31:20 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, ElGrekkko wrote:

—– Original Message —–
From: “Jon Freedlander” <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, ElGrekkko wrote:

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two thousand
years for the same thing.

I’ve always had a very bad reaction to ephedrine, i get very shaky and
anxious. the odd thing is that i tolerate amphetamines and cocaine fine,
which seems bizarre to me since they are stronger stimulants.

i also have no problem with pseudoephedrine…

Ok, one more time. I am not talking about ephedrine or pseudo-ephedrine.
These are synthetic derivatives of the actual herb, the plant called
Ephedra. This is a plant, like pot, like a carrot, like Valerian root, that
has been used in Chinese traditional medicine for a loooooooong time. When
you begin to fuck with such things—pardon my French—and make synthetic
components, you are also screwing with nature’s own time-tested formula.
Ephedrine and especially pseudo-ephedrine is a fucked-with version of
Ephedra. Other fucked-with versions of this powerful plant are crystal meth
and speed. You will get some nasty bodily reactions if you do too much of
these synthetic versions. But if you spend good money to get real and good
quality Ephedra, then you can see why humans have cherished it for so long.
But you pay well in order to see this. www.shamanshop.net has the quality
I’m talking about. No jitters, very pure.

No, ephedrine is a naturally occuring chemical, it is the primary
psychoactive constituent of ephedra (like morphine to opium). I experience
the shakes and anxiety whether I take the whole herb, or the
extracted ephedrine; leading me to believe that it is the ephedrine which
causes the reaction (as opposed to some other chemical found in the whole
herb).

I would imagine that the reason that pseudoephedrine doesn’t have this
effect on me is that it is less potent than ephedrine, but what confuses
the matter is that more potent stimulants (e.g. methamphetamine and
cocaine) don’t cause this reaction in me…

__________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander       userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
– ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†–
————————————————————————–
“If you can read this, you’re not the President.”

From: Jellking <jellking@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 29, 2002 at 5:47:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Patrick, I don’t think I’ve written to you directly before, and
sure know you don’t “need” my insights or whatever. ¬†But everyone
deserves to be thanked when they help, and I must say this is the
single most beautiful post I have read ever on this list regarding
addiction and life after. (I mean the whole post, not the little bit
excerpted here) Best and all, Jane

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought
to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn.  In the extremely near future we
are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled
with
God.  Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are
all
welcome.

etc.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 29, 2002 at 4:27:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 06:21:58PM -0700], [Occam’s Razor] wrote:

| Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
| and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.
|
| Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

This is a very heavy burden mahn.  In the extremely near future we are
going to start a support group for people who are Completely Filled with
God.  Charismatic cult leaders, Zealots of all varieties, and the
Completely Fucking Crazy and/or Resonating with Enlightenment, are all
welcome.

| I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know

Look, obviously it’s this THING.

| entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
| court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the treatment
| pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
| know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
| addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
| addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.
|
| How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
| everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
| where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
| me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who have
| anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because as
| you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
| like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
| please.

Do0d, I’m not you. ¬†I can’t hand you a roadmap and say, okay, follow this
exactly and you’ll obtain whatever results you want. ¬†Although, get back
to be ’round 2004 or so, I should have the hang of that shaktipat thing by
then.

Heroin is extreme numbness; it ain’t demonic possession, it’s just a
molecule. ¬†Look at it as the left-hand path of tantra, chemical Zen. ¬†It’s
pretty fucking cool.  There are just states that are beyond this.  Godhead
is one killer fucking rush.  I love to get high.  Shift focus; addiction
is just energy… ¬†A LOT of it. ¬†Instead of pretending it’s not there, or
trying to make deals with it, which doesn’t work because it’s not
listening; ride the lightning.  Focus and direct it where you want it to
go. ¬†Who gives a fuck about being “normal,” whatever that means exactly.

To cop a line from Jung, addiction is a hole in your soul, where the
connection to God is missing.  This is pretty much exactly correct.  And
I’d say you would be in a good space if you can establish or re-establish
your personal conduit into all this; but I’m not exactly sure even that is
necessary.

Without taking a long detour, I know two people who I hang out with
sometimes; one was a junkie for 22 years, then managed to kick, smoked pot
for a decade, and has now entered a My Body is My Temple phase, goes to
the gym 4 hours a day, doesn’t drink coffee, smoke, or eat anything that
isn’t Holistic and Natural. ¬†He’s also an incredibly fucking annoying
human being, “Patrick, have I mentioned in the last 5 minutes that you
need to stop smoking?  Steak is evil, and there are natural substitutes
for aspirin…” ¬†Uhm, thanks for sharing mahn.

The other dude had a roughly 25 year long methamphetamine run, woke up one
day and decided it was getting old, went back to school, runs a store now,
builds motorcycles, plus, also, works out 4 hours a day (there is a
pattern here).  He appears to have found some sort of spiritual belief
system in the works of this entity named Krylon — which apparently isn’t
just spray paint for tagging up anymore.  Krylon is channeled by somebody;
and he’s this God or Demon, or Energy Collective or something, which
either makes the magnetic poles of the earth shift every few thousand
decades, or he is just in charge of watching this and kinda commemorating
the event. ¬†Sadly I’m uncertain which it is, since I never pay that close
attention to the details of the scenario when it is patiently explained to
me.

But anyway, neither one is exactly what I’d called Filled with God.
Neither one thinks much of therapy or the concept of “recovery.”
Neither one does the 12-step stuff, although not having had people attempt
to dump them into that paradigm against their will, they don’t exhibit a
violent psychotic reaction to it, like some of us may at times.  To
summarize both their opinions on it, it’d be more of a Hovering Question
Mark, “I felt like shit, people said I should go to this meeting because
it’d make me feel better, so, okay, why not. ¬†Then I went there and it’s
this room completely filled with whiny people complaining about shit.  It
really depressed me, never went back. ¬†I don’t get it.”

Neither one is banging up dope or speed, after more than half a lifetime
of doing that.

What do they have in common?  Well, working out FUCKING HELPS.  Period.
Beyond that; not much. ¬†Except they BELIEVE they can do what they’re
doing.  Which is all it takes.

But YOU hafta do it.  Whatever IT happens to be.  Unfortunately the answer
to how you get from over there, to here; is not lining up molecules [A],
[B], [C] in the proper order.  Although, that too helps a whole fuckova
lot.

Ibogaine will get you unsprung. ¬†After that, it’s a question of whatever
you do to connect yourself to someplace positive.  You need to keep doing
it.  Otherwise you will fall on your face and get torn down by reality.
The World is a Vampire.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Blue box; past memories
Date: September 29, 2002 at 2:39:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 04:46:14PM -0700], [Jack Honeycutt] wrote:

| How nice it is to touch bases with others of the same ilk.  I was on the
| west cost.  Met Cap Crunch
| played and did stuff long before computers were on the landscape.  Then we
| found the Internet, long before the web was invented. Did you know that
| many of us went to work for the local telcos, did our 30 years, and have
| since retired we are that old?  We would set in meetings when some Big Wig
| would talk about blue and red boxes and try our best not to laugh. They
| were clueless.
|
| So hello my friend from your partner from the west cost.  Thanks for your
| good work.  Many of us played alone but we knew other were out there.

Hey do0d!

<BeeP>-<Kerchink>

[KP] NPA/ANC-XXXX [ST]

I control all phone systems of planet earth, I am mad with poWeR!
Woo Hoo!

[Welcome to Alliance Teleconference]

I will stop now.  And totally cool to have you here mahn.

| We are a dying bread (really dying; we are getting old, fat, heart trouble,
| etc).  It is up to you to tell the story.
| Keep on keeping on, and let your freak flag fly.

I’m doing my very best. ¬†We strive to be a Homing Signal for all freaks,
creative weirdos, and people who have God inside; approval ratings are
pretty good so far.

| Thanks for the memories.

Likewise.

_mE

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 29, 2002 at 2:27:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Sep 29, 2002 at 11:31:49PM +1200], [Alison Senepart] wrote:

| I agree with Dana.  The human body is dependant on both emotional and
| physical needs and they interact to differing degrees for each person but
| both are necessary to make up the whole.    Some people can be really
| intelligent but lack basic common sense or empathy with others etc and still
| not be able to cope with life around them.   I reckon its all a case of
| balance yet again, same as food and anything else you do in life.  It still
| comes back to dealing with yourself in the end.   Allison

| >>I personally don’t believe that intelligence is seperate from emotion.
| >>Emotionally intelligent people tend to adapt to life and society better
| >>than those who are emotionally immature. And this better adaption could be
| >>seen as an act of them having greater intelligence than the ones who are
| >>empty emotionally and live their lives complaining that they can never get
| >>ahead and no one loves them, etc. I think the heart and mind work together
| >>to create this thing called intelligence. I see it more holistically,
| >>whereas I used to see it as divided, like you do now.

I’d agree with what Dana said. ¬†I don’t really divide it as intelligence
and emotion, more a series of places you can have resonance with.

Just from my own experience, if you are in extremely negative spaces —
whatever they may be — if you apply focused intellect and reinforce that
with will, you can pull out of them … temporarily anyway. ¬†In the end
the only solution is to just drop it; accept it; integrate it, and none of
this is ever an intellectual sorta decision. ¬†It’s such an amazingly
beautiful thing when my mind finally shuts up.  Entheogens are extremely
helpful in tearing down your reason, so you can think again.

Everything is a series of balances, a harmonic.  Or it should be, when you
try to force it out of alignment, PieCeS start to blow out and come
raining down on the whole entire scenario.  Which is a real bummer.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 29, 2002 at 2:05:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 10:17:10PM -0400], [R.A.Venglarcik] wrote:

| Perhaps it is some sort of disturbance in the force.  I was tired of my

| ago, someone was asking me about the ibogaine option.  I told them all I
| knew.  Then for some reason, as I read and thought, and researched, it
| seems like it grabbed me like a religious experience. ¬†I’ve never done
| ibogaine and I’m really not all that interested in trying it out. ¬†For
| whatever reason, I wake up with it in my thoughts, and I go to bed with
| it in my thoughts.  I have been unable to force myself to actually
| pursue the career change…why? ¬†I love working with the people and
| ibogaine has some sort of hold on me. ¬†Coincidence? I Don’t know. But
| when I follow the impulse and obsession, it hardly ever turns out bad.

I’d just like to mention that I have absolute faith that ibogaine would
have helped Aleister Crowley pull out of that whole entire nosedive
towards the end there.  Many things were completely not his fault, he
suffered from the Mysterious Disease of Addiction and cannot be held
accountable for all those mistakes and allegations that arose.  It must
also truly suck to catch pieces of the light, to nearly resonate with it
right before you’re shredded apart and get blown to shit. ¬†Fucking ouch,
that has gotta hurt.

Ibogaine would have given Aleister a Window of Opportunity(R)

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 27, 2002 at 1:21:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 10:19:59AM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| Ordering on amazon with my next clicks ūüôā
|
| My last part of the question would be then where does the hacking
| underground it into all of this? Why is patrick and mindvox and
| everything tied into the yippies??
|
| Thanks, this is fascinating. I was not even alive until the 80’s so I
| don’t know! Thanks for giving me the answer instead of laughing at my
| dumb question.

Mahn do you people all have a lot to say the last couple of daze… ¬†Will
scan through all this and reply here, to my mail, to my phone messages,
everything, any minute now. ¬†I promise. ¬†It’s not my fault I’m
dysfunctional, plus, also, have a real job, which isn’t this.

Do0d… ¬†Who the hell knows. ¬†Forget 6 degrees of seperation, try for
maybe 3 — as per a conversation I had with Howard, which is to true
that it’s funny, or not… ¬†Synchronicity, God works in strange ways.

TAP is where it all begins… ¬†TAP was the birthplace of ThA undergrOund.
Abbie Hoffman started this thing called YIPL (Youth International Party
Lines) which turned into TAP (Technological Assistance Program).  We found
TAP when we were like 12, 13 years old, because we were online by then,
and meeting other phone phreaks. ¬†The internet wasn’t quite there, it was
more blue boxing and jamming up Step by Steps and Crossbars — which NYC
had a lot of, being a very old city.  DMS and ESS, and CCIS (Closed
Circuit/Channel Interoffice Signaling) didn’t exist at most CO’s (Central
Offices, not Corrections Officers) yet.

TAP was this series of meetings on the lower east side in NYC, where there
were all these crazy old people who were very excited about technology and
shit.  And we were a bunch of kids who were very smart and easy to
exploit, all they had to do was give us drugs and maybe buy us some food,
and we’d FIGURE THINGS OUT and SOLVE PROBLEMS. ¬†Whoops, no, I meant to
say, they saw the beautiful light, which is truth, which is knowledge,
shining within us and wanted to nurture it.  Or infect us with whatever
they had, or sumthin…

But anyway, if my parents broke my mind, society stepped on the pieces,
then THOSE PEOPLE at TAP fine-tuned the wreckage and helped articulate the
ISSUES inside.

So, that was a huge part of our wasted youth.  Pieman running around;
Agent 6 — who was very MySteRioUs, until we backed him out, pulled all
his shit, and found his Secret Identity! — all these 60’s do0dz, who did
stuff long before I was alive either. ¬†I missed the whole entire 60’s, I
was still on my last life back then.

Basically, THEY were our introduction to organized madness.

I had no idea what the fuck a Yippie is either.  They were just all these
crazy old people who had good drugs =)

Patrick

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:33:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You have a great home page ūüôā

Love the monochrome Mindvox logo too. phat.

.:vector:.

— nruhtra@dsskcorp.com wrote:
i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like i
used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st
century

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Psychedelic philanthropist and shareware leader dies
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:33:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Joshua Tinnin <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com> wrote:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/88590_obit26.shtml

Thursday, September 26, 2002

Psychedelic philanthropist and shareware leader dies

By D. PARVAZ
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER

Psychedelic philanthropist and computer shareware pioneer Bob Wallace

Microsoft Corp.’s ninth employee — died at his San Rafael, Calif.,
home
Friday. He was 53.

During the past decade, Mr. Wallace championed such psychoactive
drugs as
MDMA, or Ecstasy, donating up to $350,000 a year to groups studying
the
drug.

“MDMA seems to help reduce the fear people have of really looking at
themselves, and it really helps people communicate well,” Mr. Wallace
told
the Seattle Post-Intelligencer in May.

He said he had tried Ecstasy and felt it had “a lot of good
therapeutic
uses.” He also felt the drug helped people feel compassion.

Mr. Wallace and his wife started Mind Books in 1996, a company that
provided
publications about “mind-expanding plants and compounds.”

Rick Doblin, founder of the Multidisciplinary Association for
Psychedelic
Studies, described Mr. Wallace as a generous donor who quietly
supported
MAPS and other drug-research groups.

Mr. Wallace “had the rare courage of his convictions,” Doblin said.
“He had
a sense that we are overdeveloped intellectually and underdeveloped
emotionally.”

A talented computer programmer, Mr. Wallace was born in Washington,
D.C. He
attended Brown University in 1967.

In the 1970s, he moved to Seattle, where he worked at the city’s
first
personal-computer store and attended the University of Washington.

In 1978, after Bill Gates posted a sign on campus looking for
programmers
for his fledgling company, Mr. Wallace started working at Microsoft
as a
production manager and software designer. That year, he earned a
graduate
degree in computer science.

He left Microsoft in 1983 to start a Bellevue-based software company,
QuickSoft, producing a word-processing program called PC-WRITE. Mr.
Wallace
distributed the program free of charge, but users who paid a fee had
access
to added functions. He dubbed his software “shareware” and is
credited for
coining the term.

“My philosophy is that I want to make a living, not a killing,” he
once told
writer and software expert Michael Callahan.

Users who distributed Mr. Wallace’s shareware would also get a
commission if
anyone they distributed the software to paid fees.

“Nobody else ever did that; nobody else even tried that. He was the
only
one,” Callahan said.

“He helped as many people as he could. It was how he felt about
business,”
said Callahan, adding that Mr. Wallace often joked that his business
philosophy prevented him from becoming more successful.

Mr. Wallace helped found the Washington Software Association in 1985,
and
married Megan Dana, an artist and QuickSoft employee, the following
year.

The couple, who had no children, separated just over a year ago, but
remained close.

Mr. Wallace sold QuickSoft to another former Microsoft employee in
1991, and
seemed to focus more intensely on researching psychedelic drugs,
becoming
socially active within the community in recent months.

Doblin last saw Mr. Wallace in April at a dinner party.

“He looked happy,” said Doblin, noting that Mr. Wallace had a new
girlfriend
and was in the process of getting an amicable divorce.

Mr. Wallace died after a bout with pneumonia, according to Marin
County
coroner Kenneth Holmes.

P-I reporter D. Parvaz can be reached at 206-448-8095 or
dparvaz@seattlepi.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] yippies and ibogaine source emails
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:38:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dana what’s the difference between the yippies and hippies?

I wanted to post that also since a little while ago I am starting to
get emails from people asking me where to buy ibogaine. These emails
are not coming from yahoo or hotmail accounts they are all coming from
different internet accounts. I don’t know why anyone is sending these
questions to me because I don’t know.

I’m not posting their names because I don’t want everyone to be all
paranoid of them but it’s a little strange that these people are
filling up my email asking this when there is a guy who just posted
photos of his ibogaine plants and runs a cool entheogen shop in canada.
Why ask me?

Go look it up.

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

I don’t have any ibogaine and don’t know where to get it in the united
states.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:38:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When it comes to unregulated herbs, you have to pay good money to get good
quality. Yes, ephedra’s derivatives like ephedrine are used to make
amphetamine. But I’d order my ephedra from this great place off the
web—the shamanshop has great quality, but this was before I discovered
it—-and I’d get no jitteries, while I’d also easily see why this stuff
has been used as an entheogin for so long. It’s all about quality. After
sleeping, I’d wake up very alert, with a nice small buzz of it still in me,
to get me through the day. Meanwhile, it’s derivates, like crystal meth,
are only good for killing your soul and making you into a paranoid,
non-human, machine of satanic fury.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Ephedra is very similar to amphetamines…I believe it’s used to make
methamphetamine.  My past experience with amphetamines was wakefulness,
but jittery-feeling, then a crash requiring much more than 8 hours
recovery time, and wake up feeling kinda nasty.  Ritalin,
methylphenidate, is an amphetamine. Lots of abuse potential. I guess one
could use it to stay up for 40 hours, but it wouldn’t be pretty I would
surmise. ¬†From what I’ve been reading, Modafinil (provigil) looks real
promising…the new caffeine.

Ephedra sort of did me the same way as too much caffeine.  Jittery.
Hard rate increase. Blood pressure increase.  All around felt rather
nasty on a “standard” dose.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 06:22PM >>>
I’m talking Ephedra, not amphetines. Same thing. Stay awake and feel
clear-headed and effective for days. Go to sleep and you’ll return to
normal. But I’m talking Ephedra, not ephedrine or any other chemically
synthetic derivation. I’m speaking from personal experience here in
saying
it’s the same, but it also sounds like Modadfinil is very promising.
I’m
suddenly interested in that one. Ritalin apparently has some kind of
wide-awake effect. I think the pharmaceutical company is called Orphan,
and
this company recently patented something called….is it, Xyrem?…for
narcolepsy. The Europeans have been using this form of GHB to treat
narolepsy and depression for awhile now, but, of course they have a
purer
idea of medicine than we do. They want to heal people, but we too
often
want to profit. Anyways, GHB has what is called a ‘bimodal effect.’
Depressed people will see God on it, while non-depressed people will go
to
sleep and not see much in it at all. It looks like this applies to
narcolepsy. Where it makes normal people groggy, Xyrem will keep
naroleptics awake.

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. ¬†Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8
hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal
sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to
published
info. ¬†I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and
sometimes
interacts with SEALS.  No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential.  Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants
like
i
used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

————————————————————————-

—–

—————————————————————————
—–

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:33:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ephedra is very similar to amphetamines…I believe it’s used to make
methamphetamine.  My past experience with amphetamines was wakefulness,
but jittery-feeling, then a crash requiring much more than 8 hours
recovery time, and wake up feeling kinda nasty.  Ritalin,
methylphenidate, is an amphetamine. Lots of abuse potential. I guess one
could use it to stay up for 40 hours, but it wouldn’t be pretty I would
surmise. ¬†From what I’ve been reading, Modafinil (provigil) looks real
promising…the new caffeine.

Ephedra sort of did me the same way as too much caffeine.  Jittery.
Hard rate increase. Blood pressure increase.  All around felt rather
nasty on a “standard” dose.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 06:22PM >>>
I’m talking Ephedra, not amphetines. Same thing. Stay awake and feel
clear-headed and effective for days. Go to sleep and you’ll return to
normal. But I’m talking Ephedra, not ephedrine or any other chemically
synthetic derivation. I’m speaking from personal experience here in
saying
it’s the same, but it also sounds like Modadfinil is very promising.
I’m
suddenly interested in that one. Ritalin apparently has some kind of
wide-awake effect. I think the pharmaceutical company is called Orphan,
and
this company recently patented something called….is it, Xyrem?…for
narcolepsy. The Europeans have been using this form of GHB to treat
narolepsy and depression for awhile now, but, of course they have a
purer
idea of medicine than we do. They want to heal people, but we too
often
want to profit. Anyways, GHB has what is called a ‘bimodal effect.’
Depressed people will see God on it, while non-depressed people will go
to
sleep and not see much in it at all. It looks like this applies to
narcolepsy. Where it makes normal people groggy, Xyrem will keep
naroleptics awake.

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. ¬†Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8
hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal
sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to
published
info. ¬†I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and
sometimes
interacts with SEALS.  No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential.  Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants
like
i
used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

—————————————————————————
—–

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:22:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m talking Ephedra, not amphetines. Same thing. Stay awake and feel
clear-headed and effective for days. Go to sleep and you’ll return to
normal. But I’m talking Ephedra, not ephedrine or any other chemically
synthetic derivation. I’m speaking from personal experience here in saying
it’s the same, but it also sounds like Modadfinil is very promising. I’m
suddenly interested in that one. Ritalin apparently has some kind of
wide-awake effect. I think the pharmaceutical company is called Orphan, and
this company recently patented something called….is it, Xyrem?…for
narcolepsy. The Europeans have been using this form of GHB to treat
narolepsy and depression for awhile now, but, of course they have a purer
idea of medicine than we do. They want to heal people, but we too often
want to profit. Anyways, GHB has what is called a ‘bimodal effect.’
Depressed people will see God on it, while non-depressed people will go to
sleep and not see much in it at all. It looks like this applies to
narcolepsy. Where it makes normal people groggy, Xyrem will keep
naroleptics awake.

Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. ¬†Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8 hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to published
info. ¬†I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and sometimes
interacts with SEALS.  No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential.  Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like
i
used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

—————————————————————————
—–

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 6:12:34 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Apparently not like modafinil…apparently it’s a pretty effective
narcolepsy medication. ¬†Unlike amphetamines, I’ve read that one can
safely remain awake and alert for up to 40 hours, only require 8 hours
of rest, and then can do another 40 hours up again, and there’s no
crash…just another 8 hours of sleep and return to normal sleep/wake
schedule. The Special Forces reportedly use them, according to published
info. ¬†I’d heard this from a friend who works in security and sometimes
interacts with SEALS.  No jittery feelings like other stimulants.
Reportedly has no real abuse potential.  Fairly expensive.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/26/02 05:58PM >>>

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like
i
used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works…
perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st
century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two
thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 5:58:08 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like i
used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works… perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st century

Ever heard of Ephedra? Chinese have been using it for over two thousand
years for the same thing.

chris

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: <nruhtra@dsskcorp.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 5:55:56 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i use modafinil for some time now… got it for excessive daytime
sleepiness.  fun to snort i suppose but im not into stimulants like i used
to be.  keeps you up for hours and hours
full amp, clear consciousness, erases daily head smog. ¬†works… perfect.

n
www.dsskcorp.com/ibidem   <Рresearch chemical porpaganda 21st century

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] kratom
Date: September 26, 2002 at 5:19:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Sun, 15 Sep 2002
Source: Bangkok Post (Thailand)
Copyright: The Post Publishing Public Co., Ltd. 2002
Contact: postbag@bangkokpost.net
Website: http://www.bangkokpost.co.th/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/39

PLANT EYED AS TREATMENT FOR SPEED ADDICTS

Senate Mulls Lifting Of Ban On ‘Krathom’

Asenate committee is visiting the South to study a proposal to remove the
stimulant plant krathom from the government’s list of banned substances,
enabling it to be used in the treatment of methamphetamine addicts.

The proposal to introduce krathom as a methamphetamine substitute was put
forward by politicians after research in Japan and Australia found it could
be used in place of morphine during surgery, said Pinya Chuayplod, panel
chairman.

“If other countries turn krathom into a valuable asset, who will take
responsibility for the loss to the nation?” he asked.

After completing its studies, the panel planned to push for law amendments
removing the plant from the list of banned substances.

“If the government refuses, we will submit a petition in support of the law
amendments,” Mr Pinya said. “We should be able to get the required 50,000
signatures in the South alone.”
– —

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1733.a05.html

From: “Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.” <ethnogarden@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [ibogaine] Iboga seedling @2 weeks
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:26:16 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Precious……..isn’t it

J. Callan
Ethnogarden Botanicals Corp.
Tel:+(01)705-735-0540
Fax:+(01)705-735-0540
www.ethnogarden.com
ethnogarden@sympatico.ca
—– Original Message —–
From: Vector Vector
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] picking up rich 12 step women

— Curtis¬† Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick is somebody different. He’s really smart and talented and
> everything and we’re all here because of Mindvox but it is what
> Rick said in the reply, that’s his journey it may not be exactly
> yours and it wasn’t mine.

Patrick is crazy. In a great way. That’s it.

> I’ve got nearly 2 years clean now, I did ibogaine about 2 months
> ago and will probably do it again because it helps so much bro.
> But what works for me is nature, I love the mountains I like
> getting away from all the things that stress me. I don’t do any 12
> step stuff either, except once in a while. Because the problem I
> have is I don’t know where to go to party anymore. I don’t go to
> bars or clubs because for me that would make me relapse so fast.
> So what do I do? Going to a meeting is the one place I can arrive
> and it’s like I’m king of the hill because I have 2 years and
> there is always some hottie who needs to be saved.
>
> Who am I to say no? ūüôā
>

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09182002/news/regionalnews/57318.htm

How to meet rich 12 step women ūüôā

CITY’S ‘LOADED’ WITH WOMEN

By BILL HOFFMANN
——————————————————————————–

– NYP: David Rentas

September 18, 2002 —
Want to marry a millionairess? You’re in the right place.

The Big Apple is home to the world’s top four hotspots where meeting
female millionaires is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel, says
Details magazine.

And the No. 1 location to score a megabucks babe is an Alcoholics
Anonymous center on the Upper East Side.

“It’s the choicest meeting in town, right next to the Ralph Lauren
store” on Madison Avenue, which features “rich vulnerable women,” the
mag’s October issue says.

AA officials, who asked that the address of the meeting center not be
named, were mortified by the ranking.

“The purpose of our meetings is to let people share their experiences
and help others find sobriety. It is not a place to pick up women!” an
AA spokesman told The Post.

The Racquet and Tennis Club, 370 Park Ave., rated No. 2 as a place
where bachelors can scoop up women who are “dull as mayonnaise” but
have “stacks of dough.”

Robert Gressler, general manager of the club sniffed: “I have no idea
why someone would compile a list like that.”

Next were Cipriani at Fifth Avenue and 59th Street, described as a
major “hunting ground,” and Swifty’s, “the favorite watering hole of
Upper East Side society.”

Hassan Elgarrahy, general manager of Cipriani, wasn’t impressed by his
eatery’s ranking, saying: “Everybody who comes to Cipriani is rich in
their heart and important to us. We make no exclusions.”

Over at Swifty’s on Lexington Avenue and 72nd Street, co-owner Robert
Caravaggi was “thrilled and flattered. We have a lot of ladies who come
here. I don’t know if they are all available, but they come.”

New York summer hotspots also take top spots on the international Top
10 list. At No. 5 and No. 6 are the Piping Rock Club on Long Island’s
North Shore and the Bridgehampton Polo Club in the Hamptons

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Anarchist ‘Scavenger Hunt’ Raises D.C. Police Ire
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:24:47 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick maybe all of you should just pretend everything really was Day
Brown’s fault and nuke him for his own good. just thinking out loud.

.:vector:.

See there? Hostility. It intrigues how he engenders all this hostility. I
actually told him, when I told him about these lists, that the Vox list was
a place just to goof around and have fun, and he’d be wise not to sit there
and preach his 30 page philosophies to everyone, but he totally ignored me.
In the two years I’ve known him, I’m just now seeing raw and total insanity
coming through in his posts. It’s rather funny sometimes. Hope he’s
handling it OK. When the insanity comes, my philosophy is to go with it,
embrace it, love it. Those who don’t wind up in asylums; those who do wind
up writing and producing great art and such. blahblabhblabblahblah…I’d
actually be interested in seeing what happens to someone who fucks around
with someone who’s been hacking since the sixties and knows computers as
much as he does.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Anarchist ‘Scavenger Hunt’ Raises D.C. Police
Ire

Whatever the problem last night everything is ok now. Day Brown will
not be silenced that easily.

Letter 1 of 3 so far.

Patrick maybe all of you should just pretend everything really was Day
Brown’s fault and nuke him for his own good. just thinking out loud.

.:vector:.

— Day Brown <daybrown@ozarkisp.net> wrote:
Wilmot Kidd wrote:
yo dogg, you’re always pulling the testosterone card.
its cool man, lemme break it down
some dudes are just crazy
and some dudes just put the G in the P
I’m not sure of your nomenclature. But the conventional lack of
wisdom which academic sociologists and psychologists suffer from has
permitted them to explore several parameters which affect the way
individual and societies develop. I discuss Alphaism because the
primate studies show that it has a profoundly powerful effect on
individual behavior and social development, but it has not been
applied to hominids. Even tho there are innumerable studies,
(maslow’s monkeys) trying to prove things about the way humans
develop by studying primates. Yerkes Primate lab at Mandeville LA is
prolly well worth the surfing.

But even at that, it aint only testosterone. Seratonin levels are
also DNA driven, and prolly several more so far undetected
biochemistries and their effect on pre-natal neural development.

You need a multidimensional graph. Those with IQ too low are cannon
fodder, not much of a problem. Those with higher levels of
testosterone and high levels of seratonin and higher IQ have the
personal insight into their own behavior and can displace Alpha
aggression into very productive domains.

But now you’re talking about a very small percentage. Of the 100 in
the US senate, there are only a few like Sen Biden, who are not
pompous asses.

Which brings us to the lower seratonin, high testosterone, smart
alpha.
This is demogogue material. Bad sleep habits, prone to alcoholism,
but very motivated. And as we see, these turkeys get huge followings
of the dimmer male bulbs. And all the good of the good minds can be
blown away by the terrorism and tyranny which the demogogues create.

I dont see anyway to disempower the demogogues without matriarchy.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] picking up rich 12 step women
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:21:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Curtis ¬†Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Patrick is somebody different. He’s really smart and talented and
everything and we’re all here because of Mindvox but it is what
Rick said in the reply, that’s his journey it may not be exactly
yours and it wasn’t mine.

Patrick is crazy. In a great way. That’s it.

I’ve got nearly 2 years clean now, I did ibogaine about 2 months
ago and will probably do it again because it helps so much bro.
But what works for me is nature, I love the mountains I like
getting away from all the things that stress me. I don’t do any 12
step stuff either, except once in a while. Because the problem I
have is I don’t know where to go to party anymore. I don’t go to
bars or clubs because for me that would make me relapse so fast.
So what do I do? Going to a meeting is the one place I can arrive
and it’s like I’m king of the hill because I have 2 years and
there is always some hottie who needs to be saved.

Who am I to say no? ūüôā

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09182002/news/regionalnews/57318.htm

How to meet rich 12 step women ūüôā

CITY’S ¬ĎLOADED’ WITH WOMEN

By BILL HOFFMANN
——————————————————————————–

– NYP: David Rentas

September 18, 2002 —
Want to marry a millionairess? You’re in the right place.

The Big Apple is home to the world’s top four hotspots where meeting
female millionaires is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel, says
Details magazine.

And the No. 1 location to score a megabucks babe is an Alcoholics
Anonymous center on the Upper East Side.

“It’s the choicest meeting in town, right next to the Ralph Lauren
store” on Madison Avenue, which features “rich vulnerable women,” the
mag’s October issue says.

AA officials, who asked that the address of the meeting center not be
named, were mortified by the ranking.

“The purpose of our meetings is to let people share their experiences
and help others find sobriety. It is not a place to pick up women!” an
AA spokesman told The Post.

The Racquet and Tennis Club, 370 Park Ave., rated No. 2 as a place
where bachelors can scoop up women who are “dull as mayonnaise” but
have “stacks of dough.”

Robert Gressler, general manager of the club sniffed: “I have no idea
why someone would compile a list like that.”

Next were Cipriani at Fifth Avenue and 59th Street, described as a
major “hunting ground,” and Swifty’s, “the favorite watering hole of
Upper East Side society.”

Hassan Elgarrahy, general manager of Cipriani, wasn’t impressed by his
eatery’s ranking, saying: “Everybody who comes to Cipriani is rich in
their heart and important to us. We make no exclusions.”

Over at Swifty’s on Lexington Avenue and 72nd Street, co-owner Robert
Caravaggi was “thrilled and flattered. We have a lot of ladies who come
here. I don’t know if they are all available, but they come.”

New York summer hotspots also take top spots on the international Top
10 list. At No. 5 and No. 6 are the Piping Rock Club on Long Island’s
North Shore and the Bridgehampton Polo Club in the Hamptons

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:18:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t think yoda ran around tagging

y0u are 0wned bitch!

.:vector:.

— Curtis ¬†Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com> wrote:
I don’t know about any of that but that one little kid whose the
one who trojaned the entire site of ssh is a trip.

wise I am in the ways of the force
embarass you and get your stupid ass fired I will

I love reading his rants and watching him knock down things ūüôā

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [vox] Anarchist ‘Scavenger Hunt’ Raises D.C. Police Ire
Date: September 26, 2002 at 4:10:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Whatever the problem last night everything is ok now. Day Brown will
not be silenced that easily.

Letter 1 of 3 so far.

Patrick maybe all of you should just pretend everything really was Day
Brown’s fault and nuke him for his own good. just thinking out loud.

.:vector:.

— Day Brown <daybrown@ozarkisp.net> wrote:
Wilmot Kidd wrote:
yo dogg, you’re always pulling the testosterone card.
its cool man, lemme break it down
some dudes are just crazy
and some dudes just put the G in the P
I’m not sure of your nomenclature. But the conventional lack of
wisdom which academic sociologists and psychologists suffer from has
permitted them to explore several parameters which affect the way
individual and societies develop. I discuss Alphaism because the
primate studies show that it has a profoundly powerful effect on
individual behavior and social development, but it has not been
applied to hominids. Even tho there are innumerable studies,
(maslow’s monkeys) trying to prove things about the way humans
develop by studying primates. Yerkes Primate lab at Mandeville LA is
prolly well worth the surfing.

But even at that, it aint only testosterone. Seratonin levels are
also DNA driven, and prolly several more so far undetected
biochemistries and their effect on pre-natal neural development.

You need a multidimensional graph. Those with IQ too low are cannon
fodder, not much of a problem. Those with higher levels of
testosterone and high levels of seratonin and higher IQ have the
personal insight into their own behavior and can displace Alpha
aggression into very productive domains.

But now you’re talking about a very small percentage. Of the 100 in
the US senate, there are only a few like Sen Biden, who are not
pompous asses.

Which brings us to the lower seratonin, high testosterone, smart
alpha.
This is demogogue material. Bad sleep habits, prone to alcoholism,
but very motivated. And as we see, these turkeys get huge followings
of the dimmer male bulbs. And all the good of the good minds can be
blown away by the terrorism and tyranny which the demogogues create.

I dont see anyway to disempower the demogogues without matriarchy.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] On being human
Date: September 26, 2002 at 3:40:53 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

“Nawp…I’m just a wurm. Come on in and meet the missus.”

I doubt I would have made much difference, as it’s pretty much up to
the one “who sits in the blue chair,” that has to make the hard choices
and decisions, and make the rubber meet the tarmac in order to clean
up.

Lack of human beings in drug treatment isn’t the main problem. ¬†The
problem is that they are TOO HUMAN…and have a hard time seeing outside
of their own construct. ¬†Perhaps they “followed the program,” so that’s
the only way. ¬†Or they’ve got their own problems. 90% of their stress is
caused by 5% of their clients…the derivative rule, therefore, becomes:
they’re scumbags…junkies…pains in my ass…did it to
themselves…etc.

Unconditional positive regard sounds real good and looks good on paper,
but most fail to achieve it.  Because counselors are lied to,
manipulated, hollered at, and disrespected, they become irritated,
upset, and angry…personalizing issues…becoming cynical. ¬†I choose to
understand the behaviors as manifestations of dysregulated neurological
function.  I expect a good number of my clients to lie, cheat,
manipulate, and use drugs at times…so their behavior doesn’t really
bother me. ¬†In fact, I find that those who are “a pain in my ass,” are
the ones I tend to enjoy more. ¬†They’re more interesting. ¬†Addicts are
very often caught up in the game of “getting over,” and “beatin’ the
clinic,” the PO, etc. ¬†Likewise, most treatment folks are hung up on
thesame issue, trying to make sure that clients aren’t “getting over,”
or “beatin’ the clinic.” ¬†Ultimately, I’VE GOT MINE…so in the long
run, for those “getting over,” and those who get torqued up about it, it
all ends as a null-sum game. The best way to win a null-sum game, for
both sides, is to choose not to play.

“Seig Heil,” says the treatment wurm.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com 09/26/02 03:00PM >>>
Rick other people have said this and I’m not going to be back on
methadone maintenance ever (fingers crossed) but if there was one
person like you around me then it would have made some big
difference. I don’t know I would have cleaned up any sooner, but
being treated like a human would have been nice bro. Human beings
in drug treatment are rare. Most of the time I’ve found the
junkies and the nazis. No human beings.

Peace out,
Curtis

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 26, 2002 at 3:08:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t know about any of that but that one little kid whose the one who trojaned the entire site of ssh is a trip.

wise I am in the ways of the force
embarass you and get your stupid ass fired I will

I love reading his rants and watching him knock down things ūüôā It’s real funny watching this little bro take on entire security departments of companies and win. Hope he stays out of prison. Hire him Patrick, reading your media kit he’s a perfect fit for here ūüôā

I have no idea what happened with the vox list but it went off and now it’s been back all day. I suppose problem solved in one way or another ūüôā

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 ElGrekkko wrote :
i will put my instincts up against the great knowledge of the hakkkker
anytime. Tomwhore is responsible for the Vox spams, I’ll betcha.

chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything

>
> I don’t dislike Day Brown I thought he wasn’t serious, then I felt
> sorry for him now I don’t even feel sorry for him I think he’s crazy.
> That covers at least half or more of everyone here, pick crazy good or
> crazy bad but crazy. I think someone is mailbombing the list from xanga
> because that list is offline totally. I don’t think it’s Day all he
> ever does is write 30 paragraphs that explain how everyone is
> overdosing on testosterone. Mail bombing is a testosterone power sort
> of action, Day Brown would write a commentary about Joseph Campbell and
> say something about Kali. Not mailbomb the vox list.

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 26, 2002 at 3:00:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Rick other people have said this and I’m not going to be back on methadone maintenance ever (fingers crossed) but if there was one person like you around me then it would have made some big difference. I don’t know I would have cleaned up any sooner, but being treated like a human would have been nice bro. Human beings in drug treatment are rare. Most of the time I’ve found the junkies and the nazis. No human beings.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 Rick Venglarcik wrote :
Deep.

So how do you get from there to here?

Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door
will be opened to you…but don’t walk the hell thru it. ¬†Grab hold of
whatever tumbles thru the open doorway and snatch whatever you can. As
the answers come tumbling out, turn them into a way of life, and have
the balls to turn aside from everyone else and focus on obtaining
freedom from the judgment of others and the judgment of yourself. At the
same time, you need to walk eight ways at once and integrate the whole
journey.  There is no such thing as breaking thru to the other side, and
bringing something back…it’s a one way trip to pleasant fields.

Hmmm…lots of metaphor and a different mindset today, but it all makes
sense this morning when I examine my own charted path and see the chains
hanging on all of those folks  here at the clinic.

Digital answers aren’t completely yours. Neither are mine. Or anyone
elses for that matter.  Some people are very adept at, and happy with,
squeezing themselves inside someone elses box.  So the question is, do
you want that, or would you prefer to construct your own?  Building your
own working construct is a shitload of work, but the only possibility
for the non-linear. ¬†Mindvox. Ibogaine. SSRI’s. Dopamine. Serotonin.
Sex. Steak. ad infinitum?? ¬†“The truth is out there”…so when you reach
the plateau, take a very short rest, but you can’t stay there. ¬†Continue
the quest for higher ground rather than the easier but treacherous
descent into the valley of shadow. ¬†It’s an ongoing work, this life
thing.  Learn and increase your dopamine and serotonin.  And get off
your lazy ass, if that’s part of the problem.

I’ve never seen “the purple shit,” that Patrick refers to. ¬†He may well
be half-way or all-the-way out of his mind, but as they say, there is a
fine line between genius and insanity.

> After a while you don’t need any substances to do this anymore. ¬†It’s
like
> re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago, and just falling
back
> into it.  Being in touch with this on a semi-regular basis seems to
fix
> 90% of what’s wrong, most of the time. ¬†Though, various PieceS and
tHINGs
> still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.

This is the whole end of the truth you are seeking. ¬†Most days…though
I’m usually too busy to pay it much mind…I approach 100%. ¬†Yesterday,
in the midst of reading, contemplating, meditating, and dealing with the
chaos, everything came together and all of the sublime made plenty of
sense.  Once again, I failed to write it down, because I know that it
just isn’t possible.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 26, 2002 at 2:55:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I haven’t been here longer then a few months and I only found ibogaine through this place and did it in the real recent past and it made a big difference. But I got clean without it.

Patrick is somebody different. He’s really smart and talented and everything and we’re all here because of Mindvox but it is what Rick said in the reply, that’s his journey it may not be exactly yours and it wasn’t mine. I some of the time try to think what it must feel like not even drug addiction but to have the secret service and fbi chasing me around since birth or something and no matter how bad you think you are if you’ve got that many people trying to throw you in prison and you’re a kid whose 18 or 20 or something that has to do a lot of things to your head. None of them too good.

I experience what he writes about too in different ways but mine are not nearly as violent or intense in any direction bad or good and I don’t see any of the lights or the eyes or those things. I think mostly Dave sees that too and goes there but most people do not. I have more like what Rick has which are moments that I would say are so sublime bro. And I’m learning to appreciate them.

I tried to get clean so many times, I did the treatment pimps too and detox and rehab and everything and I worked for computer companies and had insurance so all I ever saw were these big numbers going across on my policy but they were huge. And it was all for nothing. I didn’t start to get better until I got away from both drugs and drug treatment.

I’ve got nearly 2 years clean now, I did ibogaine about 2 months ago and will probably do it again because it helps so much bro. But what works for me is nature, I love the mountains I like getting away from all the things that stress me. I don’t do any 12 step stuff either, except once in a while. Because the problem I have is I don’t know where to go to party anymore. I don’t go to bars or clubs because for me that would make me relapse so fast. So what do I do? Going to a meeting is the one place I can arrive and it’s like I’m king of the hill because I have 2 years and there is always some hottie who needs to be saved.

Who am I to say no? ūüôā

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 26 Sep 2002 Occam’s Razor wrote :
Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.

I started reading this with the last installment of Patrick Kroupa’s addiction
series in Heroin Times. I read them all and they’re different and very good.
This is the series I’m talking about.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

Then I signed up to this list a couple of weeks ago and started reading about
ibogaine online.

I nearly had a very long message to write before signing off but then I
thought why waste my time and yours by saying the obvious.

And maybe I’m missing something because I really related to the addiction
articles and I’m more then interested in ibogaine now.

My problems start with Mindvox. I don’t know what I was expecting but not
this. These are the exact rotating lines that I got when I first tried the
site. I know what they are because I saved the pages. After reading a
addiction series by someone who I thought is very smart and understands what
I’m going through. I sign into some kind of psychedelic temple that says this

Warning, Site Contains: Undead, Starving, Rabid, Electrified Attack Dogs on
Speed wid Gatz

.By Divine Right, Motherfucker.

Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know
what it is except it’s been here since the internet began I guess, closed for
a while and is now opening again. The ibogaine list has people on it from what
looks like every crazy subculture from the late 60’s to right now. I look some
of the speakers up and I have the yippies, the hippies, Timothy Leary at
Millbrook, the hacking underground and for some reason every one of you is on
a ibogaine list on Mindvox.

I’m still reading because I still think that somewhere there must be some
reason for all this because every one of you act like it’s completely normal
to have these conversations about space time theory, quantum physics, spirit
entities, African cults, the war on drugs and whatever you all talk about on a
list which has exactly nothing in common with any kind of drug rehab or detox
list I have ever been on.

At that time my theory was that all of you have made progress. The progress
you’ve made is escaping from the detox ward and being ready for a long stay in
the psychiatric wing which is usually located on the same floor.

I kept reading. I have read nearly the entire archives of this list and that’s
some 3,000 messages and understood that had I ever said anything it would have
had no effect exactly as I thought, since at least 70 or 80 people have passed
through here and already said exactly what I would have said and after some
messages all of it always ends at, then why are you signed up to this list and
reading all this, none of us came to you and told you that this was what you
had to do. Go away if you don’t like it.

Fair enough. I can’t fault that. In fact I give up. I want a new life. How do
I get from here

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Evolution

To here. Here is where I want to go. I’m ready to make the change. No this is
not a joke. This is exactly where I’d like to be, the universe filled with
entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the treatment
pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.

How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who have
anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because as
you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
please.

This isnt to patrick alone although I would love to hear from him since he
never answers email. There are at least 5 of you on this list who fit very
close to this. Starting with Dave Hunter. Listed as “at the heart of it all”
in the Mindvox sacred texts with a painting of purple something I don’t know
what.

This is brilliant or psychotic or both, I don’t even care. How do I get from
120mg methadone to here. This is what I want.

> On [Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 03:25:14PM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:
>
> | >What really works is resonating with Purple and letting it flow through
> | you. <
> |
> | This is the second or third time I’ve seen this- what does this mean,
> | the reference to Purple? I mean, I love the color, one of my very
> | favorites, being royalty and all, but is there something else to this?
> | Is this a Philip K Dick reference or something? Or a Patrick Kroupa
> | original?
>
> Laughing… ¬†Yes, *I* invented the Purple Shit!(TM)(R)(C)(Patent Pending),
> although Philip K. Dick is involved, because Valis is woven into the
> strands of all reality. ¬†Just ask Dana, he’ll tell you.
>
> Lemme look… ¬†<looking…>
>
> Okay, HERE, The Whole Entire Truth (in its complete totality):
>
> > | But what did you do though to get somewhere? You say pieces in HT and
> here,
> | I think I understand some of mindvox but when I start to get it it becomes
>
> | imcomprehensible it’s brilliant or crazy. I know your having a book
> | published or something but the only thing online that’s even close is
> | http://www.mindvox.com/MindVox/Places/Texts/CrackPipe.html and it looks
> like
> | you cut pieces of different times from all over and threw them together.
> |
> | What do you do??? Really, not just the recovery talk you give people.
>
> Nothing, anything, everything. ¬†It’s as simple or complex as you wanna
> make it; change paradigms.
>
> Usually what I do is get horny, wander around in sex for a while, which is
> okay, but, if love doesn’t get mixed into the picture I wind up with the
> armies of the universe inside my head; which is kinda like, oh fuck me, I
> was having a great time and now there is all this shit, it’s violence,
> brutality, destruction, and every single one of the energies taking part,
> is all me, so I’m killing and being killed by myself; which is sick,
> painful and kinda cool, all at the same time.  Getting outta red and into
> green is sorta a bitch because green keeps refusing to let go, usually I
> spin around in all this for a while and eventually manage to hit gold, but
> that’s rough for me — though, it’s getting easier — I kinda hafta slide
> in sideways off of compassion and empathy to hit love.  The rest is easy,
> blue is intellect, that’s just online, and all of this is just a journey
> on the road to the Purple Shit.
>
> Eventually it feels sorta like blowing a load up your spine, which
> probably isn’t happening, I mean, intellectually I know erection, orgasm,
> ejaculation, are separate systems, but mahn, it sure feels like it.  The
> whirlpools spin and resolve into eyes, which blow open, hyperventilating
> increases the opacity of the eyes, kinda like adjusting the alpha channel
> or sumthin’, taking really slow, deep breaths, or stopping breathing for a
> while, makes them expand in number and radius and blow outwards, until it
> feels like you’re football stadium sized, and you’re at the Purple Shit
> (TM).
>
> The Purple Shit is everywhere, in everything, it’s energy, but alive,
> sentient, and it loves you.  It feels something like everything you are,
> is a receiver/transmitter for channeling the Purple Shit (which ya can
> call God, cosmic consciousness, whatever makes you happy).
>
> After a while you don’t need any substances to do this anymore. ¬†It’s like
> re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago, and just falling back
> into it.  Being in touch with this on a semi-regular basis seems to fix
> 90% of what’s wrong, most of the time. ¬†Though, various PieceS and tHINGs
> still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.
>
> So, mostly, on a day-to-day basis, what holds me together is blue and
> green.  Intellect reinforced by will.  If I counted on love, positive
> energy, and being happy, to consistently prevent me from bangin’ up dope,
> I’d last half a day at most.
>
> My main Unresolved Issue are The Colours.  The chakras get painted with
> green at the heart chakra, gold as will. ¬†I don’t see them this way,
> they’re reversed. ¬†Is my energy system color blind, is everyone else
> wrong, am I just that fucked up… ¬†dunno <shrug> one day I’ll prolly
> resolve it.
>
> Uhm, woops, wait no, that’s wrong.
>
> What I meant to say was; my “recovery” hinges upon an excellent
> relationship with my psychiatrist, strict adherence to a regimen of
> medication, and a solid foundation built on the 12-steps.  Yeah baby!
>
> – – – – – – – – –
>
> People who have said stuff which has a lotta resonance for me are
> Muktananda and lately — thanks to Nick — Rajneesh/Osho.
>
> A lot of books contain pieces of truth, the single greatest collection of
> truth I have ever found in one place is in two books:
>
> The Solaris System Admin Guide, by Sun Microsystems, and Machiavelli’s
> cool little epic, The Prince.  Though, to be honest, the religion of BSD
> calls strongly to me, and I really like Mach running the BSD 4.4 kernel.
>
> No, wait, that’s wrong too, I meant:
>
> One’s by Alex Grey, which doesn’t have a lot of words, it’s called Sacred
> Mirrors.  And this was like pivotal in my life.  When a lotta this first
> happened, I wasn’t in an environment where it was… okay or accepted, and
> as cool as it was, I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this
> magazine — which was a druggie mag, not High Times, maybe Magical Blend
> or sumthin’ — which had Grey’s painting called “Dying.” ¬†At the time I
> didn’t know that, I thought it was Awakening, and it wuz like, holy shit,
> this guy I know nothing about is painting exactly what I’m looking at. ¬†He
> sees it too, I’m not crazy.
>
> The other book is called Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, and it’s
> utterly beautiful and links together such a disparate and wide-ranging
> series of topics and phenomena that it’s amazing. ¬†Read this if ya read
> nothing else, even maybe a few paragraphs at a time.
>
> – – – – – – – – –
>
> Just believe.  If you believe with enough focus, a Rift in Time and Space
> may open right in the middle of the Mars bar, and green ibogaine sludge
> mixed with DMSO might Hurtle Downwards upon the Patrons — kinda like
> Cthulhu meets the Iceman Cometh, with strands of Philip K. Dick woven in
> — and a great WAVE of hEALINg will SWEEP the land, “oh my fucking god…
> I’ve been drunk and strung-out for 49 years, what the hell is all this
> crap I’m seeing, is this reality? ¬†Man do I need a drink.”
>
> That concludes this evening’s sermon. ¬†Donation box is over on the left on
> your way out, thank you veddy much.
>
> In conclusion, go to a meeting and share, you’ll feel better about things.
> You’re right where you need to be, it’s all part of God’s .plan for you.
> Just take things one day at a time, you have a horrible disease.
>
> And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last, when all
> are one and one is all.
>
> Patrick
>

__________________________________________________________
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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Thought request…
Date: September 26, 2002 at 9:51:10 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

any narcoleptics out there have any experience with Modafinil
(Provigil)?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 26, 2002 at 9:49:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Deep.

So how do you get from there to here?

Ask and it shall be given, seek and ye shall find, knock and the door
will be opened to you…but don’t walk the hell thru it. ¬†Grab hold of
whatever tumbles thru the open doorway and snatch whatever you can. As
the answers come tumbling out, turn them into a way of life, and have
the balls to turn aside from everyone else and focus on obtaining
freedom from the judgment of others and the judgment of yourself. At the
same time, you need to walk eight ways at once and integrate the whole
journey.  There is no such thing as breaking thru to the other side, and
bringing something back…it’s a one way trip to pleasant fields.

Hmmm…lots of metaphor and a different mindset today, but it all makes
sense this morning when I examine my own charted path and see the chains
hanging on all of those folks  here at the clinic.

Digital answers aren’t completely yours. Neither are mine. Or anyone
elses for that matter.  Some people are very adept at, and happy with,
squeezing themselves inside someone elses box.  So the question is, do
you want that, or would you prefer to construct your own?  Building your
own working construct is a shitload of work, but the only possibility
for the non-linear. ¬†Mindvox. Ibogaine. SSRI’s. Dopamine. Serotonin.
Sex. Steak. ad infinitum?? ¬†“The truth is out there”…so when you reach
the plateau, take a very short rest, but you can’t stay there. ¬†Continue
the quest for higher ground rather than the easier but treacherous
descent into the valley of shadow. ¬†It’s an ongoing work, this life
thing.  Learn and increase your dopamine and serotonin.  And get off
your lazy ass, if that’s part of the problem.

I’ve never seen “the purple shit,” that Patrick refers to. ¬†He may well
be half-way or all-the-way out of his mind, but as they say, there is a
fine line between genius and insanity.

After a while you don’t need any substances to do this anymore. ¬†It’s
like
re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago, and just falling
back
into it.  Being in touch with this on a semi-regular basis seems to
fix
90% of what’s wrong, most of the time. ¬†Though, various PieceS and
tHINGs
still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.

This is the whole end of the truth you are seeking. ¬†Most days…though
I’m usually too busy to pay it much mind…I approach 100%. ¬†Yesterday,
in the midst of reading, contemplating, meditating, and dealing with the
chaos, everything came together and all of the sublime made plenty of
sense.  Once again, I failed to write it down, because I know that it
just isn’t possible.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 26, 2002 at 12:57:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i will put my instincts up against the great knowledge of the hakkkker
anytime. Tomwhore is responsible for the Vox spams, I’ll betcha.

chris
—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything

I don’t dislike Day Brown I thought he wasn’t serious, then I felt
sorry for him now I don’t even feel sorry for him I think he’s crazy.
That covers at least half or more of everyone here, pick crazy good or
crazy bad but crazy. I think someone is mailbombing the list from xanga
because that list is offline totally. I don’t think it’s Day all he
ever does is write 30 paragraphs that explain how everyone is
overdosing on testosterone. Mail bombing is a testosterone power sort
of action, Day Brown would write a commentary about Joseph Campbell and
say something about Kali. Not mailbomb the vox list.

I don’t really know what Patrick means exactly except he’s Patrick and
I re read the message that Occam asked and I didn’t mean to make light
of it because you have problems and you want whatever Patrick has which
is either god or crazy good which are the same thing I think. I wrote
my reply because my mail was full of 3mb or junk mail from Day Brown. I
apologise and there are some real deep conversations here.

.:vector:.

— ElGrekkko <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on
the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Yeah, Vector, what exactly is that, happening on the vox list? My
opionion:
someone wanted to make it look like day brown bombed the thing. He’s
insane, but he’s not insane in a mail-bombing kind of way. The guy’s
been
hakkking since computers were invented, but that’s just not his
style. I
could email him privately and he’d be honest as to whether he’s doing
it or
not, but, at first glance, it looked to me like Tomwhore first posted
the
message that said “Help! I’ve been hacked.” Below it was a link to
some
site called ‘Xanga,’ which my instincts told me NOT to click on. Then
the
bombs started coming, maybe from those who did click on it, or from
people,
like maybe Tomwhore, who want to make it look like those they don’t
like
are hacking the vox list. What’s your theory? You don’t really dig
Day
either. In fact, no one in Vox does. LOL. He’s too stoned to notice.

Occam, The purple stuff that you want reads like pure spirit to me.
God
force. Soul force, etc. Maybe not, if Vector’s helping you find it. I
dunno. Maybe it’s actually something tangible. I just read it as a
metaphor. Your post is definitely worth reading again.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list
everything

That’s deep. I’ve never been a drug addict but if you send me email
I’ll give you a referal to one of the people you’re looking for ūüôā

You might want to keep reading since there are 25 messages around
the
one you quoted in all directions with all the people whose opinions
you
wanted talking about addiction. That was the red pill blue pill
series.
It features Patrick, Dave, Preston, Howard, Andria, Brett, me of
course, etc.

You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on
the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Nobody ever quotes me. I posted the URLs to mars bar. Here are two
I
found again.

.:vector:.

http://www.time2shine.com/mars.html

http://www.nycgoth.com/more/mars_bar/

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 25, 2002 at 10:36:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t dislike Day Brown I thought he wasn’t serious, then I felt
sorry for him now I don’t even feel sorry for him I think he’s crazy.
That covers at least half or more of everyone here, pick crazy good or
crazy bad but crazy. I think someone is mailbombing the list from xanga
because that list is offline totally. I don’t think it’s Day all he
ever does is write 30 paragraphs that explain how everyone is
overdosing on testosterone. Mail bombing is a testosterone power sort
of action, Day Brown would write a commentary about Joseph Campbell and
say something about Kali. Not mailbomb the vox list.

I don’t really know what Patrick means exactly except he’s Patrick and
I re read the message that Occam asked and I didn’t mean to make light
of it because you have problems and you want whatever Patrick has which
is either god or crazy good which are the same thing I think. I wrote
my reply because my mail was full of 3mb or junk mail from Day Brown. I
apologise and there are some real deep conversations here.

.:vector:.

— ElGrekkko <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on
the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Yeah, Vector, what exactly is that, happening on the vox list? My
opionion:
someone wanted to make it look like day brown bombed the thing. He’s
insane, but he’s not insane in a mail-bombing kind of way. The guy’s
been
hakkking since computers were invented, but that’s just not his
style. I
could email him privately and he’d be honest as to whether he’s doing
it or
not, but, at first glance, it looked to me like Tomwhore first posted
the
message that said “Help! I’ve been hacked.” Below it was a link to
some
site called ‘Xanga,’ which my instincts told me NOT to click on. Then
the
bombs started coming, maybe from those who did click on it, or from
people,
like maybe Tomwhore, who want to make it look like those they don’t
like
are hacking the vox list. What’s your theory? You don’t really dig
Day
either. In fact, no one in Vox does. LOL. He’s too stoned to notice.

Occam, The purple stuff that you want reads like pure spirit to me.
God
force. Soul force, etc. Maybe not, if Vector’s helping you find it. I
dunno. Maybe it’s actually something tangible. I just read it as a
metaphor. Your post is definitely worth reading again.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list
everything

That’s deep. I’ve never been a drug addict but if you send me email
I’ll give you a referal to one of the people you’re looking for ūüôā

You might want to keep reading since there are 25 messages around
the
one you quoted in all directions with all the people whose opinions
you
wanted talking about addiction. That was the red pill blue pill
series.
It features Patrick, Dave, Preston, Howard, Andria, Brett, me of
course, etc.

You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on
the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Nobody ever quotes me. I posted the URLs to mars bar. Here are two
I
found again.

.:vector:.

http://www.time2shine.com/mars.html

http://www.nycgoth.com/more/mars_bar/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 25, 2002 at 10:20:22 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Yeah, Vector, what exactly is that, happening on the vox list? My opionion:
someone wanted to make it look like day brown bombed the thing. He’s
insane, but he’s not insane in a mail-bombing kind of way. The guy’s been
hakkking since computers were invented, but that’s just not his style. I
could email him privately and he’d be honest as to whether he’s doing it or
not, but, at first glance, it looked to me like Tomwhore first posted the
message that said “Help! I’ve been hacked.” Below it was a link to some
site called ‘Xanga,’ which my instincts told me NOT to click on. Then the
bombs started coming, maybe from those who did click on it, or from people,
like maybe Tomwhore, who want to make it look like those they don’t like
are hacking the vox list. What’s your theory? You don’t really dig Day
either. In fact, no one in Vox does. LOL. He’s too stoned to notice.

Occam, The purple stuff that you want reads like pure spirit to me. God
force. Soul force, etc. Maybe not, if Vector’s helping you find it. I
dunno. Maybe it’s actually something tangible. I just read it as a
metaphor. Your post is definitely worth reading again.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything

That’s deep. I’ve never been a drug addict but if you send me email
I’ll give you a referal to one of the people you’re looking for ūüôā

You might want to keep reading since there are 25 messages around the
one you quoted in all directions with all the people whose opinions you
wanted talking about addiction. That was the red pill blue pill series.
It features Patrick, Dave, Preston, Howard, Andria, Brett, me of
course, etc.

You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Nobody ever quotes me. I posted the URLs to mars bar. Here are two I
found again.

.:vector:.

http://www.time2shine.com/mars.html

http://www.nycgoth.com/more/mars_bar/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 25, 2002 at 10:15:19 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I like day brown. He always reminds me that my life could be worse I could be living in a matriarchical drug cult in the ozarks.

Mars bar looks great. Day brown would like the mars bar.

<vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:
That’s deep. I’ve never been a drug addict but if you send me email
I’ll give you a referal to one of the people you’re looking for ūüôā

You might want to keep reading since there are 25 messages around
the
one you quoted in all directions with all the people whose opinions
you
wanted talking about addiction. That was the red pill blue pill series.
It features Patrick, Dave, Preston, Howard, Andria, Brett, me of
course, etc.

You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on
the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Nobody ever quotes me. I posted the URLs to mars bar. Here are two
I
found again.

.:vector:.

http://www.time2shine.com/mars.html

http://www.nycgoth.com/more/mars_bar/

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 25, 2002 at 9:52:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s deep. I’ve never been a drug addict but if you send me email
I’ll give you a referal to one of the people you’re looking for ūüôā

You might want to keep reading since there are 25 messages around the
one you quoted in all directions with all the people whose opinions you
wanted talking about addiction. That was the red pill blue pill series.
It features Patrick, Dave, Preston, Howard, Andria, Brett, me of
course, etc.

You have lousy timing anyway I think they are having a DDOS war on the
main vox list with some group of servers. I’m sure everyone is busy
watching things explode. Or they better be because I have a mailbox
filling up with 3mb of Day Brown’s poetry.

Nobody ever quotes me. I posted the URLs to mars bar. Here are two I
found again.

.:vector:.

http://www.time2shine.com/mars.html

http://www.nycgoth.com/more/mars_bar/

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Occam’s Razor <occamsrazor_1956@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Please Read Addiction ibogaine this list everything
Date: September 25, 2002 at 9:21:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please take the time to read this. It took me some hours of thought to write
and I’m not being sarcastic anywhere.

I started reading this with the last installment of Patrick Kroupa’s addiction
series in Heroin Times. I read them all and they’re different and very good.
This is the series I’m talking about.

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

Then I signed up to this list a couple of weeks ago and started reading about
ibogaine online.

I nearly had a very long message to write before signing off but then I
thought why waste my time and yours by saying the obvious.

And maybe I’m missing something because I really related to the addiction
articles and I’m more then interested in ibogaine now.

My problems start with Mindvox. I don’t know what I was expecting but not
this. These are the exact rotating lines that I got when I first tried the
site. I know what they are because I saved the pages. After reading a
addiction series by someone who I thought is very smart and understands what
I’m going through. I sign into some kind of psychedelic temple that says this

Warning, Site Contains: Undead, Starving, Rabid, Electrified Attack Dogs on
Speed wid Gatz

.By Divine Right, Motherfucker.

Now Includes: Fully Integrated Messiah Complex

I have now understood that Mindvox isn’t a recovery site. I still don’t know
what it is except it’s been here since the internet began I guess, closed for
a while and is now opening again. The ibogaine list has people on it from what
looks like every crazy subculture from the late 60’s to right now. I look some
of the speakers up and I have the yippies, the hippies, Timothy Leary at
Millbrook, the hacking underground and for some reason every one of you is on
a ibogaine list on Mindvox.

I’m still reading because I still think that somewhere there must be some
reason for all this because every one of you act like it’s completely normal
to have these conversations about space time theory, quantum physics, spirit
entities, African cults, the war on drugs and whatever you all talk about on a
list which has exactly nothing in common with any kind of drug rehab or detox
list I have ever been on.

At that time my theory was that all of you have made progress. The progress
you’ve made is escaping from the detox ward and being ready for a long stay in
the psychiatric wing which is usually located on the same floor.

I kept reading. I have read nearly the entire archives of this list and that’s
some 3,000 messages and understood that had I ever said anything it would have
had no effect exactly as I thought, since at least 70 or 80 people have passed
through here and already said exactly what I would have said and after some
messages all of it always ends at, then why are you signed up to this list and
reading all this, none of us came to you and told you that this was what you
had to do. Go away if you don’t like it.

Fair enough. I can’t fault that. In fact I give up. I want a new life. How do
I get from here

http://www.mindvox.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/MindVoxUI.woa/wa/staticpage%3fpagename=Evolution

To here. Here is where I want to go. I’m ready to make the change. No this is
not a joke. This is exactly where I’d like to be, the universe filled with
entities and lights, eyes, colors. Instead of crack, heroin, psychiatrists,
court dates, lines in the methadone clinic, running out of meds, the treatment
pimps as you call them on this list, the rip offs, the list is endless. You
know the list, you write about the degredation and hopelessness of drug
addiction very well. You know drug addiction. You know treatment for drug
addiction, it’s not any better. You also know this other place.

How do I get here. I have money, I will pay. I’ve already spent it on
everything else and it hasn’t helped. And I’m dead serious. Get me out of
where I am over to this other place. What did you do? H O W ????? Don’t tell
me LSD or ALD because I know 100s who have done psychedelics and none who have
anything remotely close to what you’ve got. Don’t tell me ibogaine because as
you yourself said it detoxes you and maybe more, but I’m not seeing anything
like what you’ve got. It detoxes me and then what? What do I do? Roadmap
please.

This isnt to patrick alone although I would love to hear from him since he
never answers email. There are at least 5 of you on this list who fit very
close to this. Starting with Dave Hunter. Listed as “at the heart of it all”
in the Mindvox sacred texts with a painting of purple something I don’t know
what.

This is brilliant or psychotic or both, I don’t even care. How do I get from
120mg methadone to here. This is what I want.

On [Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 03:25:14PM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:

| >What really works is resonating with Purple and letting it flow through
| you. <
|
| This is the second or third time I’ve seen this- what does this mean,
| the reference to Purple? I mean, I love the color, one of my very
| favorites, being royalty and all, but is there something else to this?
| Is this a Philip K Dick reference or something? Or a Patrick Kroupa
| original?

Laughing… ¬†Yes, *I* invented the Purple Shit!(TM)(R)(C)(Patent Pending),
although Philip K. Dick is involved, because Valis is woven into the
strands of all reality. ¬†Just ask Dana, he’ll tell you.

Lemme look… ¬†<looking…>

Okay, HERE, The Whole Entire Truth (in its complete totality):

| But what did you do though to get somewhere? You say pieces in HT and
here,
| I think I understand some of mindvox but when I start to get it it becomes

| imcomprehensible it’s brilliant or crazy. I know your having a book
| published or something but the only thing online that’s even close is
| http://www.mindvox.com/MindVox/Places/Texts/CrackPipe.html and it looks
like
| you cut pieces of different times from all over and threw them together.
|
| What do you do??? Really, not just the recovery talk you give people.

Nothing, anything, everything. ¬†It’s as simple or complex as you wanna
make it; change paradigms.

Usually what I do is get horny, wander around in sex for a while, which is
okay, but, if love doesn’t get mixed into the picture I wind up with the
armies of the universe inside my head; which is kinda like, oh fuck me, I
was having a great time and now there is all this shit, it’s violence,
brutality, destruction, and every single one of the energies taking part,
is all me, so I’m killing and being killed by myself; which is sick,
painful and kinda cool, all at the same time.  Getting outta red and into
green is sorta a bitch because green keeps refusing to let go, usually I
spin around in all this for a while and eventually manage to hit gold, but
that’s rough for me — though, it’s getting easier — I kinda hafta slide
in sideways off of compassion and empathy to hit love.  The rest is easy,
blue is intellect, that’s just online, and all of this is just a journey
on the road to the Purple Shit.

Eventually it feels sorta like blowing a load up your spine, which
probably isn’t happening, I mean, intellectually I know erection, orgasm,
ejaculation, are separate systems, but mahn, it sure feels like it.  The
whirlpools spin and resolve into eyes, which blow open, hyperventilating
increases the opacity of the eyes, kinda like adjusting the alpha channel
or sumthin’, taking really slow, deep breaths, or stopping breathing for a
while, makes them expand in number and radius and blow outwards, until it
feels like you’re football stadium sized, and you’re at the Purple Shit
(TM).

The Purple Shit is everywhere, in everything, it’s energy, but alive,
sentient, and it loves you.  It feels something like everything you are,
is a receiver/transmitter for channeling the Purple Shit (which ya can
call God, cosmic consciousness, whatever makes you happy).

After a while you don’t need any substances to do this anymore. ¬†It’s like
re-remembering something you forgot a long time ago, and just falling back
into it.  Being in touch with this on a semi-regular basis seems to fix
90% of what’s wrong, most of the time. ¬†Though, various PieceS and tHINGs
still come raining down, because I’m not perfect.

So, mostly, on a day-to-day basis, what holds me together is blue and
green.  Intellect reinforced by will.  If I counted on love, positive
energy, and being happy, to consistently prevent me from bangin’ up dope,
I’d last half a day at most.

My main Unresolved Issue are The Colours.  The chakras get painted with
green at the heart chakra, gold as will. ¬†I don’t see them this way,
they’re reversed. ¬†Is my energy system color blind, is everyone else
wrong, am I just that fucked up… ¬†dunno <shrug> one day I’ll prolly
resolve it.

Uhm, woops, wait no, that’s wrong.

What I meant to say was; my “recovery” hinges upon an excellent
relationship with my psychiatrist, strict adherence to a regimen of
medication, and a solid foundation built on the 12-steps.  Yeah baby!

– – – – – – – – –

People who have said stuff which has a lotta resonance for me are
Muktananda and lately — thanks to Nick — Rajneesh/Osho.

A lot of books contain pieces of truth, the single greatest collection of
truth I have ever found in one place is in two books:

The Solaris System Admin Guide, by Sun Microsystems, and Machiavelli’s
cool little epic, The Prince.  Though, to be honest, the religion of BSD
calls strongly to me, and I really like Mach running the BSD 4.4 kernel.

No, wait, that’s wrong too, I meant:

One’s by Alex Grey, which doesn’t have a lot of words, it’s called Sacred
Mirrors.  And this was like pivotal in my life.  When a lotta this first
happened, I wasn’t in an environment where it was… okay or accepted, and
as cool as it was, I thought I was losing my mind until I saw this
magazine — which was a druggie mag, not High Times, maybe Magical Blend
or sumthin’ — which had Grey’s painting called “Dying.” ¬†At the time I
didn’t know that, I thought it was Awakening, and it wuz like, holy shit,
this guy I know nothing about is painting exactly what I’m looking at. ¬†He
sees it too, I’m not crazy.

The other book is called Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot, and it’s
utterly beautiful and links together such a disparate and wide-ranging
series of topics and phenomena that it’s amazing. ¬†Read this if ya read
nothing else, even maybe a few paragraphs at a time.

– – – – – – – – –

Just believe.  If you believe with enough focus, a Rift in Time and Space
may open right in the middle of the Mars bar, and green ibogaine sludge
mixed with DMSO might Hurtle Downwards upon the Patrons — kinda like
Cthulhu meets the Iceman Cometh, with strands of Philip K. Dick woven in
— and a great WAVE of hEALINg will SWEEP the land, “oh my fucking god…
I’ve been drunk and strung-out for 49 years, what the hell is all this
crap I’m seeing, is this reality? ¬†Man do I need a drink.”

That concludes this evening’s sermon. ¬†Donation box is over on the left on
your way out, thank you veddy much.

In conclusion, go to a meeting and share, you’ll feel better about things.
You’re right where you need to be, it’s all part of God’s .plan for you.
Just take things one day at a time, you have a horrible disease.

And if you listen very hard, the tune will come to you at last, when all
are one and one is all.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] From Philip Dick to Stephan Hawking
Date: September 25, 2002 at 6:03:30 PM EDT
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] From Philip K. Dick to Stephen Hawking
Status:

Zero Point Energy Gravity Physics

A Pedagogical Introduction

http://stardrive.org/math4/Zero%20Point%20Energy%20Gravity%20Physics.htm

http://stardrive.org/Jack/hauptfeld.pdf

Wavelets and Wigner Phase Space Density

http://stardrive.org/math2/Wigner.htm

Zero Point Energy, Star Gates and Warp Drive

http://stardrive.org/Jack/Casimir

From: lightstorm4@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: September 25, 2002 at 2:22:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

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On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:14:37 -0700 “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700], [lightstorm4@hushmail.com]
wrote:

| Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox synthesis
| and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then absorbed
by
| erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most
of the
| information. Is all of this online somewhere?

Yeah, everything is intact, Atlantis is in the process of rising
once
again; it is the end of days after all.

Very glad to hear!

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies.  Send email to accounts
and
you’ll be added.

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this
list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client
you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending
mail
into the year 1997. ¬†Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

Ahhhhhhhhh, I forgot that switch.

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

Patrick

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From: lightstorm4@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ALD52
Date: September 25, 2002 at 2:21:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
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Thank you for replying. I don’t know if this is the right place still to have this discussion but if there is a better forum please tell me. It is the first place online I have found anyone who even knew what it was much less has taken it and now I’m seeing names I recognize! Aron!

I found this but this is again not complete and from hyperreal. The most information I have is from Shulgin’s ALD-52 synthesis. Which does not easily adapt if you do not have access to alot of equipment and access to chemicals in the first place, which would make it not a problem.

Among LSD25 notes in Tikhal ALD appears with less interesting analogs of LSD.

Dana you would say then that ALD52 is less noise and more content then LSD, Aron you said same thing in a way. Owlsey, Leary and the chemist you mentioned Dana, Nicky Sands, said ALD is LSD that is breaking down and in Hoffman’s notes he produced LSD25 and then made ALD52 from that, not the reverse.

So much information in different directions and absolutely nothing that is recent.

ls

Most likely “good” acid is N-acetyl-LSD (ALD-52) [according to Psychedelic Encyclopedia it produces a smoother trip and is somewhat commonly found in analysis — references to the latter were provided]. while “speedy” acid is LSD-25. You might want to inform her that those “speedy” effects are also commonly reported side effects of legal drugs which effect the 5-HT neurotransmitter system. And ditto on the potency issue — you’d need mg quantities of strychnine to feel anything. And what you would feel (according to descriptions I’ve read) does not match descriptions of LSD “speed” effects. Most significantly because strychnine muscular effects tend to fade in & out, while LSD “speed” effects are typically reported as being consistent — and there are other qualitative differences.

Despite Leary’s warning, LSD was made illegal on October 16, 1966. Owsley acid was the first large-scale commercialization of LSD. There were other smaller LSD laboratories before Owsley, and there were scores of laboratories that put out LSD at the same time that Owsley did. Some were making LSD of a purer form; the majority made it much worse. After Owsley was arrested in 1967 at his tabbing facility at Orinda, California, his protege Scully set up a laboratory with Nicholas Sand, another alchemist long involved in the psychedelic scene. They manufactured a quantity of ALD-52 – a cousin to LSD, which they called Sunshine – in large crumbly orange tablets of 270 micrograms or so. In the spring of 1969, Ron Stark, then a chemist with a European LSD factory and now a fugitive, allegedly began supplying underground acid to the Brotherhood of Eternal Love. Since the Brotherhood was also, by this time, distributing ALD-52, and since both drugs were tabbed into identical pills (ex
cept for a few early blue tablets of ALD-52), many people didn’t realize that there was more than one kind of Sunshine. Many counterfeit versions soon appeared on the market, most of which were impure, according to Scully. Sand and Scully ceased manufacturing, but Stark went on to produce over 10 kilograms (over 35 million doses in crystal form) of what became the famous Orange Sunshine – the last of which actually appeared in large red and green tablets called “Christmas Acid.” With the Sunshine boom came increased reports of side effects. In addition to stimulant reactions and symptoms akin to those of strychnine poisoning being reported, there seemed to be something missing in the spiritual dimensions of this new underground acid. Michael Hollinshead, who gave Leary his first taste of acid in 1960, later wrote in The Man Who Turned on the World: There was now (1968) little good acid around, and what there was – the so-called “street acid” – came mainly from California. Th
ere was something wrong with the synthesis; it was not pure.!
And you
were never sure what it was exactly that you were taking, so I only dropped it on those rare occasions when someone gave me “Sandoz” or “crystal” acid… My evaluation had nothing to do with the notion that a wholly synthetic drug produced a wholly synthetic experience – the intellectual response – but was based on direct, first-hand experience (about 30 trips with street acid in all). And in each session I felt that there was something it lacked – it was too “electric,” too “speedy” and too “mind-shattering.” The earlier clarity of “insight” which I had obtained via the Sandoz acid was replaced by confusion, brokenness, words and worlds thrown into absolute dismemberment, or even absolute chaos, though, I must add, often coupled with a feeling that I can only describe as “sublime inflation,” a super abundance of emotive energy, but it could not signify more a passionate flame and less the life-giving sun.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:08:27 -0700 Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

I’ve taken LSD many times, ALD-52 just once. LSD even at its best
was
never quite like ALD-52. Roughly, it was about 10 times more
psychedelic, but no more hallucinogenic than acid. The signal to
noise ratio was about 10 times more signal to the same amount of
noise. Very interesting group-mind and two time superimposition
characteristics often imputed to ayahuasca.

I don’t need to take ibogaine for spiritual development (not being
an
addict). Already saw god.

Is it true that Nicky Sands (inventor of ALD-52) just got out of
federal prison? I would like to meet him. He is a hero of the
psychedelic revolution.

Dana/cnw

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From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences
Date: September 25, 2002 at 4:22:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Just try to keep going Karina.¬†¬† I know when I really got to grips and got off it all I felt better in 3 months and thought I was there and then even better in 6 months and eventually did 18 months and it was a real buzz.¬†¬† I actually remembered what it was like to feel like a normal person, listen to music and have interest in things I’d forgotten about.¬† In some ways I was on a natural high just being clean and enjoying life like I hadn’t done for ages.¬† My daughter enjoyed having me around in a different state too.¬† I don’t know if you have children but if you have they make it all worth while in the end.¬† Perhaps even your husband if you are close to each other.¬† I don’t know that it ever goes away completely but if you can get your head straight and start enjoying life it makes it easier to stick with the plan and work at it.¬† I just reckon there has to be something better out there than living from day to day desperately searching, grovelling and spending all your time and money for bugger all.¬† And then the next day you have to try to get yourself out of bed and do it all over again.¬† Its really self defeating.¬† Also a huge drain on finances.¬† I can’t help but think of the money I’ve basically thrown away and what I could have had with it….Anyways.¬† no turning back but there is always a way to go forwards and do better hopefully.¬† Have you got someone who really supports you… a friend or your husband etc. who understands what your going through cos it helps lots.¬†¬† Love Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Thursday, 19 September 2002 10:31
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences

thanks allison i’m back to work damm i still do not fell “right” they say when you kick¬† methadone it takes 6-12¬† months………play you pay…..and did i play and pay…..karina

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: September 25, 2002 at 12:42:13 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 lightstorm4@hushmail.com wrote:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox synthesis and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then absorbed by erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most of the information. Is all of this online somewhere? How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this list? I sent email it bounces.

you might also want to try going to www.lycaeum.org

its the same idea as erowid, but sometimes when one doesn’t have the
information you want, the other will…

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander                                userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
– ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†–
——————————————————————————-
“When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.”
–Robert A. Wilson

From: Slip Stream <slipstream@hipplanet.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] From Philip K. Dick to Stephen Hawking
Date: September 24, 2002 at 7:16:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Zero Point Energy Gravity Physics

A Pedagogical Introduction

http://stardrive.org/math4/Zero%20Point%20Energy%20Gravity%20Physics.htm

http://stardrive.org/Jack/hauptfeld.pdf

Wavelets and Wigner Phase Space Density

http://stardrive.org/math2/Wigner.htm

Zero Point Energy, Star Gates and Warp Drive

http://stardrive.org/Jack/Casimir

_____________________________________________________________
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From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] clarification – Cocaine, brain scans and holes in the cerebral vortex
Date: September 24, 2002 at 7:11:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I may have posted this Friday. I can’t remember. Uh-oh.
Peace,
Preston
http://www.drugwar.com/morrisxmyth.shtm
Ecstasy and the Media:
Myth, Misunderstanding and Morality
by Craig Morris- for DrugWar.com
(photo)
Ecstasy
Sept. 19, 2002
A recent article in The Psychologist РSorted: Ecstasy facts and fiction [need Adobe Reader] has caused some considerable stir and outrage in the more sensationalist sections of the British media. It was claimed that the article suggested that ecstasy was not a dangerous substance. In the eyes of certain sections of the media this was tantamount to condoning its’ use, this being seen as completely morally reprehensible. In fact, the article doesn’t actually suggest that ecstasy use is without potential risks at all. What the article does do, is to question the methodological validity of much of the research that has been conducted on animal and human subjects into the effects of the drug. That is to say it raises questions about how such research is conducted and to what degree the results really do tell us something about how ecstasy effects human beings.
snip-
Read Complete Editorial Here
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] clarification – Cocaine, brain scans and holes in the cerebral vortex

— Rick Venglarcik <RickV@hnncsb.org> wrote:
> I believe the “areas of inactivity” were looking at glucose
> metabolization via radioactive marking of glucose…primarily done with
> the SPECT scan.

Yes, that is what Dr. Alper indicated. A lot of these terms slip my mind as
soon as they enter. I’m an artist, not a medic or scientist… there were 3
types of scans, metabolic, electric and…

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Salvia
Date: September 24, 2002 at 6:39:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Newsgroups: alt.drugs
From: talis@starship.com
Subject: RE: Salvia Divinorum
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 17:52:37 -0400

Actually, I’d love to correct you.

According to T. McKenna, at a recent lecture, that I attended, He said the
following about proper tech, `for using, S. Divinorum, or Diviners Mint.

To start, take 15-20 fresh leaves, remove the center stem, to reduce the bulk
of the plant material.

Roll the leaves into a quid (ball), and put in your mouth

This should be done, in a dark room, with a digital clock visible

Watching the clock, chew on the leaves, for exactly 15 miniutes, then spit them
out.

Effects, should last about 45 miniutes.

First of all, notices the major difference  in the amount that you smoked, to
the actual suggested number of leaves.

Also, I have never heard of smoking the leaves but you could probally use the
dry leaves in the same way as the fresh leaves….

Blessed Be!

____________________________________________________________
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] thanks
Date: September 24, 2002 at 5:52:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wanted to say thanks to all those who have sent me mail with advice and answers.

Thanks to the whole list. There’s some negative energy here some of the time but finding this space has made many positive changes in my life. Ibogaine being one of them of course ūüôā

Salvia you should try to get the whole planet, big difference. Or get it from someone who made it, I have had no success ever with any 5X or 10X sold online or at stores. Stick with the plant.

Peace out,
Curtis

__________________________________________________________
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From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: September 24, 2002 at 5:41:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe it needs a new syringe.

I like the interface. Looking forward to those features coming in 2012 ūüôā

http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/index.html

MindVox Transcendental Enlightenment Temple / Heroin Maintenance Clinic

Where do I sign up? ūüôā

peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 Vector Vector wrote :

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
> On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700],
> [lightstorm4@hushmail.com] wrote:
>
>
> | How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.
>
> The beta testing list is crashtestdummies.  Send email to accounts
> and
> you’ll be added.

Except the beta changes every 10 minutes and does real helpful things
like this. Its Solaris injection is broken and it can’t find the
Oracle.

Application: MindVox
Error: NSInvalidArgumentException exception
Reason:
Exception while executing method init:
Exception while executing statement :
eventTypes = [logEditingContext
objectsForEntityNamed:@”IDLogEventType”]
Exception while evaluating WebScript expression [logEditingContext
objectsForEntityNamed:@”IDLogEventType”]:
SolarisInjection: NSInvalidSecureSocket: no route to host
ORA-01034: ORACLE not available

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ALD52
Date: September 24, 2002 at 4:42:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If he just got out then he’s been in there a real long time or went
back in for something else.

Millbrook by Art Kleps, Chief Boo Hoo,
the Original Kleptonian Neo-American Church

Chapter 21

THE PILGRIMS

Jill later married Nicky Sands, a nice guy and a West Coast underground
chemist and co-conspirator with Billy in the Orange Sunshine acid
manufacturing deal, for which, along with Tim Scully, a real prick, he
took a fall while Billy walked. How much did they collect for doing
Billy’s time? Who knows.

Millbrook http://www.okneoac.com/bighouseweb.jpg

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I landed due to exactly one thing which is one of those rotating
lines at the top of Mindvox which appears on google. This one.

D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide / N-Acetyl-LSD /
5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Which says
LSD25, ALD52, 5ME0DMT

Beautiful site I enjoy the feel of the whole place but I am a little

confused. Could anyone with information about the differences
between ALD52 and LSD25 please post or contact me. I don’t
understand who runs this or if this is the wrong list, but if there
is a better place to post this question I will do it. I didn’t find
a better place in the public listing of available topics at the main

page.

I can work a search engine but there is not very much there on ALD,
erowid, lyceaum are in the same way empty of almost all content.

Thank you

PGP Key available on request.

ls

I’ve taken LSD many times, ALD-52 just once. LSD even at its best was

never quite like ALD-52. Roughly, it was about 10 times more
psychedelic, but no more hallucinogenic than acid. The signal to
noise ratio was about 10 times more signal to the same amount of
noise. Very interesting group-mind and two time superimposition
characteristics often imputed to ayahuasca.

I don’t need to take ibogaine for spiritual development (not being an

addict). Already saw god.

Is it true that Nicky Sands (inventor of ALD-52) just got out of
federal prison? I would like to meet him. He is a hero of the
psychedelic revolution.

Dana/cnw

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: September 24, 2002 at 4:48:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700],
[lightstorm4@hushmail.com] wrote:

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies.  Send email to accounts
and
you’ll be added.

Except the beta changes every 10 minutes and does real helpful things
like this. Its Solaris injection is broken and it can’t find the
Oracle.

Application: MindVox
Error: NSInvalidArgumentException exception
Reason:
Exception while executing method init:
Exception while executing statement :
eventTypes = [logEditingContext
objectsForEntityNamed:@”IDLogEventType”]
Exception while evaluating WebScript expression [logEditingContext
objectsForEntityNamed:@”IDLogEventType”]:
SolarisInjection: NSInvalidSecureSocket: no route to host
ORA-01034: ORACLE not available

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this
list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client
you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending
mail
into the year 1997. ¬†Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

AD or BC? I can’t find that in my email program. Where do I download
the Philip K. Dick email client all of you are using?

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

That was cold.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: ARON KAY <pieman@pieman.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ALD52
Date: September 24, 2002 at 4:47:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HEY ALD-52 MADE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS IN AT LEAST 3 TIME ERAS AT THE SAME
TIME…IT WAS ONE MEGA-RELIGIOUS TRIP
ARON KAY-
http://www.pieman.org/
http://www.pieman.org/links.html
http://www.pieman.org/60smidis.htm
http://www.pieman.org/potlinks.html
http://www.pieman.org/rottenrudy.htm
http://www.pieman.org/pagec.html
http://www.pieman.org/jeffersonstarship
http://www.pieman.org/pissonbush.html
http://www.pieman.org/anti-bushlinks.html
http://www.pieman.org/fuckyouverymuchbush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/bushisachump.htm
http://www.pieman.org/lowlifebush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/assholebush.htm
http://www.pieman.org/bushposters.htm
http://www.pieman.org/naziscum.html

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ALD52

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I landed due to exactly one thing which is one of those rotating
lines at the top of Mindvox which appears on google. This one.

D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide / N-Acetyl-LSD /
5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Which says
LSD25, ALD52, 5ME0DMT

Beautiful site I enjoy the feel of the whole place but I am a little
confused. Could anyone with information about the differences
between ALD52 and LSD25 please post or contact me. I don’t
understand who runs this or if this is the wrong list, but if there
is a better place to post this question I will do it. I didn’t find
a better place in the public listing of available topics at the main
page.

I can work a search engine but there is not very much there on ALD,
erowid, lyceaum are in the same way empty of almost all content.

Thank you

PGP Key available on request.

ls

I’ve taken LSD many times, ALD-52 just once. LSD even at its best was
never quite like ALD-52. Roughly, it was about 10 times more
psychedelic, but no more hallucinogenic than acid. The signal to
noise ratio was about 10 times more signal to the same amount of
noise. Very interesting group-mind and two time superimposition
characteristics often imputed to ayahuasca.

I don’t need to take ibogaine for spiritual development (not being an
addict). Already saw god.

Is it true that Nicky Sands (inventor of ALD-52) just got out of
federal prison? I would like to meet him. He is a hero of the
psychedelic revolution.

Dana/cnw

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 24, 2002 at 4:43:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
The Salvia I did obviously wasn’t this good, and it was 5X.

Salvia seems to affect some people more profoundly than others. the 1+1/2 hit I
tried was almost too much, and what really threw me off was having someone else
in the room who wasn’t experiencing what I was. But in retrospect it was
delightful. For me 5X is good, 10X I’d be more careful with. there’s some guy
who claims he’s made 15X across town, “a total white light experience, dude…
if you can remember that” [spoken in dreadlock spaced out hippy whisper] -seems
a bit much, at least at this juncture in time/space.

it will be interesting to see how the dosage of 5X holds up over time, will I
acclimate? According to Shulgin and other articles, it does affect the opiate receptors…

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] clarification – Cocaine, brain scans and holes in the cerebral vortex
Date: September 24, 2002 at 4:37:36 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Rick Venglarcik <RickV@hnncsb.org> wrote:
I believe the “areas of inactivity” were looking at glucose
metabolization via radioactive marking of glucose…primarily done with
the SPECT scan.

Yes, that is what Dr. Alper indicated. A lot of these terms slip my mind as
soon as they enter. I’m an artist, not a medic or scientist… there were 3
types of scans, metabolic, electric and…

-gamma

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ALD52
Date: September 24, 2002 at 4:08:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I landed due to exactly one thing which is one of those rotating
lines at the top of Mindvox which appears on google. This one.

D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide / N-Acetyl-LSD / 5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Which says
LSD25, ALD52, 5ME0DMT

Beautiful site I enjoy the feel of the whole place but I am a little
confused. Could anyone with information about the differences
between ALD52 and LSD25 please post or contact me. I don’t
understand who runs this or if this is the wrong list, but if there
is a better place to post this question I will do it. I didn’t find
a better place in the public listing of available topics at the main
page.

I can work a search engine but there is not very much there on ALD,
erowid, lyceaum are in the same way empty of almost all content.

Thank you

PGP Key available on request.

ls

I’ve taken LSD many times, ALD-52 just once. LSD even at its best was
never quite like ALD-52. Roughly, it was about 10 times more
psychedelic, but no more hallucinogenic than acid. The signal to
noise ratio was about 10 times more signal to the same amount of
noise. Very interesting group-mind and two time superimposition
characteristics often imputed to ayahuasca.

I don’t need to take ibogaine for spiritual development (not being an
addict). Already saw god.

Is it true that Nicky Sands (inventor of ALD-52) just got out of
federal prison? I would like to meet him. He is a hero of the
psychedelic revolution.

Dana/cnw

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: September 24, 2002 at 3:14:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 11:47:40AM -0700], [lightstorm4@hushmail.com] wrote:

| Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox synthesis
| and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then absorbed by
| erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most of the
| information. Is all of this online somewhere?

Yeah, everything is intact, Atlantis is in the process of rising once
again; it is the end of days after all.

| How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

The beta testing list is crashtestdummies.  Send email to accounts and
you’ll be added.

| Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this list? I
| sent email it bounces.

You need to go to the [Preferences] section of whatever email client you
are using, click on [Advanced Options] and make sure you are sending mail
into the year 1997. ¬†Then it’ll work Just Super Fine.

| ls

su
cd /
rm -fr *

Patrick

From: lightstorm4@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] drug archives
Date: September 24, 2002 at 2:47:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

Searching on erowid again from what I understand the mindvox synthesis and drug archives were absorbed by hyppereal which was then absorbed by erowid. Except they are very incomplete and don’t contain most of the information. Is all of this online somewhere? How do I enter mindvox and not just the lists.

Is fauxton (Zapotec Blue) Gracie and Zarkov or Jon Ott on this list? I sent email it bounces.

Thank you

ls

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: Hush 2.1
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com

wmAEARECACAFAj2QscIZHGxpZ2h0c3Rvcm00QGh1c2htYWlsLmNvbQAKCRCa2UaFFbaI
sXDZAKCJgMBRe/IqlbCHPERQoKJ0CWTTCgCaA2TYfzsLk+kP7gEctyUdEbEo7hA=
=6V8K
—–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: lightstorm4@hushmail.com
Subject: [ibogaine] ALD52
Date: September 24, 2002 at 1:51:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—–
Hash: SHA1

I landed due to exactly one thing which is one of those rotating lines at the top of Mindvox which appears on google. This one.

D-Lysergic Acid Diethylamide / N-Acetyl-LSD / 5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine

Which says
LSD25, ALD52, 5ME0DMT

Beautiful site I enjoy the feel of the whole place but I am a little confused. Could anyone with information about the differences between ALD52 and LSD25 please post or contact me. I don’t understand who runs this or if this is the wrong list, but if there is a better place to post this question I will do it. I didn’t find a better place in the public listing of available topics at the main page.

I can work a search engine but there is not very much there on ALD, erowid, lyceaum are in the same way empty of almost all content.

Thank you

PGP Key available on request.

ls

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—–
Version: Hush 2.1
Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com

wmAEARECACAFAj2QpH0ZHGxpZ2h0c3Rvcm00QGh1c2htYWlsLmNvbQAKCRCa2UaFFbaI
sXHiAJ9tPumY8bijAdQbk8E6FV4quLVUVwCfSZRxAp8PCYQprM9UgYlvqW+q49s=
=zouO
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Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 24, 2002 at 12:51:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Salvia is really beautiful.

http://www.sabia.com/salvia/index.html

The very strangest thing is when talking about it is that it’s legal!
I’m sure this will change as things always do whenever the government
discovers that there is something new that makes people feel good.

.:vector:. in awe that it’s not a controlled substance yet

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi Preston

At 13:54 24.9.2002, you wrote:
I was also very aware of this face just out of the corner of my
right
eye and above me to my right, like a woman or a cat creature, but
it was
fleeting.

Like in Alice in Wonderland? I’ve seen the movie the other day, and
Whoopi
Goldberg suits your description very well!

So, next time I want to smoke some 10X.

I suggest that you get a plant, it’s beautiful to see and you’ll have
so
many leaves you won’t know what to do with them – perhaps you’ll make
20X
extract ;-))

Marko

I know we have it in our shop at drugwar.com, but silly me has
yet to
take advantage of that incense yet.
Peace,
Preston

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 24, 2002 at 9:07:22 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Preston

At 13:54 24.9.2002, you wrote:
I was also very aware of this face just out of the corner of my right eye and above me to my right, like a woman or a cat creature, but it was fleeting.

Like in Alice in Wonderland? I’ve seen the movie the other day, and Whoopi Goldberg suits your description very well!

So, next time I want to smoke some 10X.

I suggest that you get a plant, it’s beautiful to see and you’ll have so many leaves you won’t know what to do with them – perhaps you’ll make 20X extract ;-))

Marko

I know we have it in our shop at drugwar.com, but silly me has yet to take advantage of that incense yet.
Peace,
Preston

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 24, 2002 at 7:54:18 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The Salvia I did obviously wasn’t this good, and it was 5X.
I only felt my insides spinning in a weird way, like my skin was cool, but my insides were on a top or something. Not unpleasant at all, but not at all strong either. I got up and walked across the apartment laughing at the internal spinning.
I was also very aware of this face just out of the corner of my right eye and above me to my right, like a woman or a cat creature, but it was fleeting.
So, next time I want to smoke some 10X.
I know we have it in our shop at drugwar.com, but silly me has yet to take advantage of that incense yet.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> I tried it a couple times…it seemed interesting, but not all that
> powerful…at least in the pitiful doses I tried.

Salvia 5X extract would be my reccomendation. Hawaiian source.

recent anecdotal report:

Salvia #1
8:04 PM Smoked 1/12th gram of salvia [.083]

I felt the onset before exhaling, a psychedelic surge, which intensified as I
exhaled. I held the smoke for perhaps 10-15 seconds. The salvia came on faster
and stronger than expected. A zipper sound started faintly then stronger, and
with my eyes closed I was “zipped” into a surrounding forest of thousands of
identical leaves with serrated edges. Literally I felt the zipper pass through
my physical body. The “clearing” in the forest matched the physical confines of
the room I was sitting in. My wife who was sitting in the doorway appeared to
be sitting underneath a bush of the same foliage. The visuals were less
pronounced with my eyes open, but completely detailed with eyes closed. I could
feel my wifes apprehension quite clearly as this was a completely new
experience for me and she was concerned. The effects wore off after 10 minutes
or so, but left me with a stony feeling for an hour afterwards. Very
psychedelic, and very plant oriented. A full on reality change. A very soothing
and aware plant energy was present even after the visuals wore off.

9:35PM
Smoked another hit, same amount.

I had the distinct feeling I was being pushed/pulled through a screen or sieve,
every molecule of my body was being strained, slightly uncomforatable, but not
painful. I consciously reflected on this sensation to myself and a jester with
serious coyote energy, something straight out of Casteneda’s books began to run
circles around me, stating “of course I was being put through the strainer,
what else did you expect?” around and around he went, all of this portrayed in
vibrant colors like Huichol peyote yarn art. Spinning around me he continued,
with the vibrant visual reverb echoing off of him and colliding with the aether
surrounding us both. As the vision began to fade this character became stuck in
one place, like a half squashed bug on the windshield twitching and
disappearing into the floor.

A very distinct mescalero/shaman/coyote theme and energy to this 2nd
experience.

Salvia is preferable to me personally because of its short-lived but very
intense nature, although next time I would like to try 2 hits in rapid
succession for a stronger effect.

I carried on intimate & revealing conversations with my wife after each
experience, and am left with a heart warming feeling, a nice break from the
despair I have been feeling lately.

1 + ¬Ĺ hits (0.1245gm) Salvia 5X, inhaled at once:

Laying down, I exhale and breath. The Feather Goddess (a beautiful gigantic
tropical bird) embraces me with her wings. She slowly dissolves, her wings
growing into the mattress until I am surrounded by long, flowing feathers
growing from the bed. I feel quite silly and giddy, and can’t stop giggling.
The entire room is filled with feathers, gently swaying in the breeze. My
friend is in the room and my concern of him seeing me lose my grip with reality
brings me out of the vision sooner than I would have liked. I found myself
blinking away the feathers, and foolishly asking him if he was seeing them as
well, the vision was quite vivid (he had just smoked salvia as well, but a much
smaller dose).

This was by far a more intense vision, entirely psychedelic. I think a
completely dark environment would lend itself well to the visions. This room
was shaded. One note of interest is that as I smoked the salvia, a tropical
bird was outside the window singing. I wonder if I experienced the spirit of
the birds…

-gamma

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] clarification – Cocaine, brain scans and holes in the cerebral vortex
Date: September 24, 2002 at 7:17:49 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe the “areas of inactivity” were looking at glucose
metabolization via radioactive marking of glucose…primarily done with
the SPECT scan.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

gammalyte9000@yahoo.com 09/24/02 02:31AM >>>
Regarding the dispute wether or not Crack caused “holes” in the
brain…

The “holes” are not really holes. They are “areas of inactivity” that
show up
in Metabolic scans, (like a PET scan) in particular in the Frontal Lobe
and are
supported by electrical and some other type of scan that slips my mind
at the
moment. At first these “areas of inactivity” were coined “Swiss
Cheese”,
probably by Volkow,ND (PubMed search will give you many articles
written by her
regarding the brain, cocaine and amphetamines) back in the late
1980/early
1990’s.

Where NYU came into my previous post is: they have a relationship with
Phoenix
House in New York where they track addicts as they go thru the 18
month
program. I understand that PET scans are done, and I forget the medical
terms
but the series of scans showed areas of inactivity in the frontal lobe
don’t
dissapear altogether in recovery, but do get better. This was a
continuation of
a study which began at Bellvue by Dr. Ken Alper, who continues to work
with
Phoenix House through NYU. This study in no way involved any animals
going
through treatment at Phoenix House.

The biggest hurtle [we] addicts have to deal with is once you’re
sensitized to
your drug of choice, there ain’t no going back. There was some
discussion of
Ibopgaine potentially “resetting” your brain back to a pre-addictive
state, but
in my personal experience that hasn’t been the case. Ibogaine
definately works
on the same pathways, but it doesn’t “cure”. Sure, it gets better over
time,
but the monkey lives on. We just have to learn to live with that
monkey. Or
gorilla, for that matter.

“don’t ever let the monkey in your head get louder than the music in
your
heart.”

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] clarification – Cocaine, brain scans and holes in the cerebral vortex
Date: September 24, 2002 at 2:31:44 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Regarding the dispute wether or not Crack caused “holes” in the brain…

The “holes” are not really holes. They are “areas of inactivity” that show up
in Metabolic scans, (like a PET scan) in particular in the Frontal Lobe and are
supported by electrical and some other type of scan that slips my mind at the
moment. At first these “areas of inactivity” were coined “Swiss Cheese”,
probably by Volkow,ND (PubMed search will give you many articles written by her
regarding the brain, cocaine and amphetamines) back in the late 1980/early
1990’s.

Where NYU came into my previous post is: they have a relationship with Phoenix
House in New York where they track addicts as they go thru the 18 month
program. I understand that PET scans are done, and I forget the medical terms
but the series of scans showed areas of inactivity in the frontal lobe don’t
dissapear altogether in recovery, but do get better. This was a continuation of
a study which began at Bellvue by Dr. Ken Alper, who continues to work with
Phoenix House through NYU. This study in no way involved any animals going
through treatment at Phoenix House.

The biggest hurtle [we] addicts have to deal with is once you’re sensitized to
your drug of choice, there ain’t no going back. There was some discussion of
Ibopgaine potentially “resetting” your brain back to a pre-addictive state, but
in my personal experience that hasn’t been the case. Ibogaine definately works
on the same pathways, but it doesn’t “cure”. Sure, it gets better over time,
but the monkey lives on. We just have to learn to live with that monkey. Or
gorilla, for that matter.

“don’t ever let the monkey in your head get louder than the music in your
heart.”

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 24, 2002 at 2:07:28 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
I tried it a couple times…it seemed interesting, but not all that
powerful…at least in the pitiful doses I tried.

Salvia 5X extract would be my reccomendation. Hawaiian source.

recent anecdotal report:

Salvia #1
8:04 PM Smoked 1/12th gram of salvia [.083]

I felt the onset before exhaling, a psychedelic surge, which intensified as I
exhaled. I held the smoke for perhaps 10-15 seconds. The salvia came on faster
and stronger than expected. A zipper sound started faintly then stronger, and
with my eyes closed I was ¬ďzipped¬Ē into a surrounding forest of thousands of
identical leaves with serrated edges. Literally I felt the zipper pass through
my physical body. The ¬ďclearing¬Ē in the forest matched the physical confines of
the room I was sitting in. My wife who was sitting in the doorway appeared to
be sitting underneath a bush of the same foliage. The visuals were less
pronounced with my eyes open, but completely detailed with eyes closed. I could
feel my wifes apprehension quite clearly as this was a completely new
experience for me and she was concerned. The effects wore off after 10 minutes
or so, but left me with a stony feeling for an hour afterwards. Very
psychedelic, and very plant oriented. A full on reality change. A very soothing
and aware plant energy was present even after the visuals wore off.

9:35PM
Smoked another hit, same amount.

I had the distinct feeling I was being pushed/pulled through a screen or sieve,
every molecule of my body was being strained, slightly uncomforatable, but not
painful. I consciously reflected on this sensation to myself and a jester with
serious coyote energy, something straight out of Casteneda’s books began to run
circles around me, stating ¬ďof course I was being put through the strainer,
what else did you expect?¬Ē around and around he went, all of this portrayed in
vibrant colors like Huichol peyote yarn art. Spinning around me he continued,
with the vibrant visual reverb echoing off of him and colliding with the aether
surrounding us both. As the vision began to fade this character became stuck in
one place, like a half squashed bug on the windshield twitching and
disappearing into the floor.

A very distinct mescalero/shaman/coyote theme and energy to this 2nd
experience.

Salvia is preferable to me personally because of its short-lived but very
intense nature, although next time I would like to try 2 hits in rapid
succession for a stronger effect.

I carried on intimate & revealing conversations with my wife after each
experience, and am left with a heart warming feeling, a nice break from the
despair I have been feeling lately.

1 + ŠļĄ hits (0.1245gm) Salvia 5X, inhaled at once:

Laying down, I exhale and breath. The Feather Goddess (a beautiful gigantic
tropical bird) embraces me with her wings. She slowly dissolves, her wings
growing into the mattress until I am surrounded by long, flowing feathers
growing from the bed. I feel quite silly and giddy, and can’t stop giggling.
The entire room is filled with feathers, gently swaying in the breeze. My
friend is in the room and my concern of him seeing me lose my grip with reality
brings me out of the vision sooner than I would have liked. I found myself
blinking away the feathers, and foolishly asking him if he was seeing them as
well, the vision was quite vivid (he had just smoked salvia as well, but a much
smaller dose).

This was by far a more intense vision, entirely psychedelic. I think a
completely dark environment would lend itself well to the visions. This room
was shaded. One note of interest is that as I smoked the salvia, a tropical
bird was outside the window singing. I wonder if I experienced the spirit of
the birds…

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 23, 2002 at 7:05:19 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I tried it a couple times…it seemed interesting, but not all that powerful…at least in the pitiful doses I tried.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???

On [Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 03:25:08PM -0700], [Nicholas Labus] wrote:

| Excusse me but i must say that salvia is definety helping with my
| monster called methaDONE  hes wwhay to high for me. i m helping to
| fight the hiyperspace war godbye  friends

Uhm, prezoomin’ that alla dat up there ^^^ wuz not a suicide note, and you
are still with us…¬† Lemme axe joo sumthin’¬† I’ve never smoked salvia
while on opiates/opioids — go figure, what’re the odds — you seem to
be having fun, or a psychotic break, same thing I guess, depending on
how you choose to perceive it…¬† So I looked it up… are you, catching a
nice buzz…?

Patrick

– – – – – – – – –

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12192085&dopt=Abstract

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2002 Sep 3;99(18):11934-9 Related Articles, Help
Links

Salvinorin A: a potent naturally occurring nonnitrogenous kappa opioid
selective agonist.

Roth BL, Baner K, Westkaemper R, Siebert D, Rice KC, Steinberg S,
Ernsberger P, Rothman RB.

National Institute of Mental Health Psychoactive Drug Screening
Program and Department of Biochemistry, Case Western Reserve University
Medical School, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA. roth@biocserver.cwru.edu

Salvia divinorum, whose main active ingredient is the neoclerodane
diterpene Salvinorin A, is a hallucinogenic plant in the mint family that
has been used in traditional spiritual practices for its psychoactive
properties by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico. More recently, S. divinorum
extracts and Salvinorin A have become more widely used in the U.S. as
legal hallucinogens. We discovered that Salvinorin A potently and
selectively inhibited (3)H-bremazocine binding to cloned kappa opioid
receptors. Salvinorin A had no significant activity against a battery of
50 receptors, transporters, and ion channels and showed a distinctive
profile compared with the prototypic hallucinogen lysergic acid
diethylamide. Functional studies demonstrated that Salvinorin A is a
potent kappa opioid agonist at cloned kappa opioid receptors expressed in
human embryonic kidney-293 cells and at native kappa opioid receptors
expressed in guinea pig brain. Importantly, Salvinorin A had no actions at
the 5-HT(2A) serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target
responsible for the actions of classical hallucinogens. Salvinorin A thus
represents, to our knowledge, the first naturally occurring nonnitrogenous
opioid-receptor subtype-selective agonist. Because Salvinorin A is a
psychotomimetic selective for kappa opioid receptors, kappa
opioid-selective antagonists may represent novel psychotherapeutic
compounds for diseases manifested by perceptual distortions (e.g.,
schizophrenia, dementia, and bipolar disorders). Additionally, these
results suggest that kappa opioid receptors play a prominent role in the
modulation of human perception.

PMID: 12192085 [PubMed – in process]

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings
Date: September 23, 2002 at 6:47:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pity. You both missed out on experiencing what I came to call ‘the nail enamel remover of the gods.’¬† I’ve just read a term paper on it, by the way, where they’ve found—in countries where people actually do scientific¬†research, as opposed to political or capitolistic research—that it’s been shown to ‘remarkably reduce in rats the craving for cocaine and opiods.’¬† Rather than hitting the little pedal to give them this stuff, the rats will often hit the pedal to get another dose of……….the nail enamel remover of the gods.

All I know is that it cleaned my fingernails, brilliantly.
Chris

—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

LOL, funny, that is almost the exact same thing I was thinking.!
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

On [Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 02:31:13PM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

<…cut…>

| Relying on Web sites and personal e-mail accounts to
| reach their customers, the dealers disguised what they
| were selling by calling their products “Blue Raine”
| ink jet printing supplies and “TonerCleen” solution,
| investigators said.

Shit…¬† That sucks.¬† Do you mean to tell me some of those idiots I’ve
added to my mail filters were actually trying to sell me drugs?  Well why
didn’t they just say so.¬† What’s wrong with people?

Patrick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings
Date: September 23, 2002 at 6:35:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOL, funny, that is almost the exact same thing I was thinking.!
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Patrick K. Kroupa
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

On [Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 02:31:13PM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

<…cut…>

| Relying on Web sites and personal e-mail accounts to
| reach their customers, the dealers disguised what they
| were selling by calling their products “Blue Raine”
| ink jet printing supplies and “TonerCleen” solution,
| investigators said.

Shit…¬† That sucks.¬† Do you mean to tell me some of those idiots I’ve
added to my mail filters were actually trying to sell me drugs?  Well why
didn’t they just say so.¬† What’s wrong with people?

Patrick

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] storing ibogaine hcl
Date: September 23, 2002 at 6:08:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What is the best way to store ibogaine hcl? I know a cool dark place but what does that mean, in the refrigerator or a cubboard?

It’s whiteish yellow, sort of lumpy a little, tastes goddawful, makes your tongue and lips numb like cocaine and knocks you on your butt when you do it of course ūüôā What’s the best way to store it?

Thanks

peace out,
Curtis

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 23, 2002 at 6:04:09 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro I used to do saliva when I was still shooting d4s to answer you it gets you hella wasted! ūüôā

It also helped a lot when I was so depressed after I stopped doing heroin. I didn’t do ibogaine until almost a year and a half clean, that helped alot more ūüôā but salvia is niccccccccce ūüôā

I have a question but I’m going to put it into another post in case it gets lost in this thread.

I found pubmed from posts on this list actually and wanted to say that another very good search engine is on alltheweb.com called Scirus

peace out,
Curtis

On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 Patrick K. Kroupa wrote :
On [Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 03:25:08PM -0700], [Nicholas Labus] wrote:

| Excusse me but i must say that salvia is definety helping with my
| monster called methaDONE  hes wwhay to high for me. i m helping to
| fight the hiyperspace war godbye  friends

Uhm, prezoomin’ that alla dat up there ^^^ wuz not a suicide note, and you
are still with us… ¬†Lemme axe joo sumthin’ ¬†I’ve never smoked salvia
while on opiates/opioids — go figure, what’re the odds — you seem to
be having fun, or a psychotic break, same thing I guess, depending on
how you choose to perceive it… ¬†So I looked it up… are you, catching a
nice buzz…?

Patrick

– – – – – – – – –

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12192085&dopt=Abstract

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2002 Sep 3;99(18):11934-9 Related Articles, Help
Links

Salvinorin A: a potent naturally occurring nonnitrogenous kappa opioid
selective agonist.

Roth BL, Baner K, Westkaemper R, Siebert D, Rice KC, Steinberg S,
Ernsberger P, Rothman RB.

National Institute of Mental Health Psychoactive Drug Screening
Program and Department of Biochemistry, Case Western Reserve University
Medical School, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA. roth@biocserver.cwru.edu

Salvia divinorum, whose main active ingredient is the neoclerodane
diterpene Salvinorin A, is a hallucinogenic plant in the mint family that
has been used in traditional spiritual practices for its psychoactive
properties by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico. More recently, S. divinorum
extracts and Salvinorin A have become more widely used in the U.S. as
legal hallucinogens. We discovered that Salvinorin A potently and
selectively inhibited (3)H-bremazocine binding to cloned kappa opioid
receptors. Salvinorin A had no significant activity against a battery of
50 receptors, transporters, and ion channels and showed a distinctive
profile compared with the prototypic hallucinogen lysergic acid
diethylamide. Functional studies demonstrated that Salvinorin A is a
potent kappa opioid agonist at cloned kappa opioid receptors expressed in
human embryonic kidney-293 cells and at native kappa opioid receptors
expressed in guinea pig brain. Importantly, Salvinorin A had no actions at
the 5-HT(2A) serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target
responsible for the actions of classical hallucinogens. Salvinorin A thus
represents, to our knowledge, the first naturally occurring nonnitrogenous
opioid-receptor subtype-selective agonist. Because Salvinorin A is a
psychotomimetic selective for kappa opioid receptors, kappa
opioid-selective antagonists may represent novel psychotherapeutic
compounds for diseases manifested by perceptual distortions (e.g.,
schizophrenia, dementia, and bipolar disorders). Additionally, these
results suggest that kappa opioid receptors play a prominent role in the
modulation of human perception.

PMID: 12192085 [PubMed – in process]

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 23, 2002 at 5:23:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 03:25:08PM -0700], [Nicholas Labus] wrote:

| Excusse me but i must say that salvia is definety helping with my
| monster called methaDONE  hes wwhay to high for me. i m helping to
| fight the hiyperspace war godbye  friends

Uhm, prezoomin’ that alla dat up there ^^^ wuz not a suicide note, and you
are still with us… ¬†Lemme axe joo sumthin’ ¬†I’ve never smoked salvia
while on opiates/opioids — go figure, what’re the odds — you seem to
be having fun, or a psychotic break, same thing I guess, depending on
how you choose to perceive it… ¬†So I looked it up… are you, catching a
nice buzz…?

Patrick

– – – – – – – – –

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12192085&dopt=Abstract

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2002 Sep 3;99(18):11934-9 Related Articles, Help
Links

Salvinorin A: a potent naturally occurring nonnitrogenous kappa opioid
selective agonist.

Roth BL, Baner K, Westkaemper R, Siebert D, Rice KC, Steinberg S,
Ernsberger P, Rothman RB.

National Institute of Mental Health Psychoactive Drug Screening
Program and Department of Biochemistry, Case Western Reserve University
Medical School, Cleveland, OH 44106, USA. roth@biocserver.cwru.edu

Salvia divinorum, whose main active ingredient is the neoclerodane
diterpene Salvinorin A, is a hallucinogenic plant in the mint family that
has been used in traditional spiritual practices for its psychoactive
properties by the Mazatecs of Oaxaca, Mexico. More recently, S. divinorum
extracts and Salvinorin A have become more widely used in the U.S. as
legal hallucinogens. We discovered that Salvinorin A potently and
selectively inhibited (3)H-bremazocine binding to cloned kappa opioid
receptors. Salvinorin A had no significant activity against a battery of
50 receptors, transporters, and ion channels and showed a distinctive
profile compared with the prototypic hallucinogen lysergic acid
diethylamide. Functional studies demonstrated that Salvinorin A is a
potent kappa opioid agonist at cloned kappa opioid receptors expressed in
human embryonic kidney-293 cells and at native kappa opioid receptors
expressed in guinea pig brain. Importantly, Salvinorin A had no actions at
the 5-HT(2A) serotonin receptor, the principal molecular target
responsible for the actions of classical hallucinogens. Salvinorin A thus
represents, to our knowledge, the first naturally occurring nonnitrogenous
opioid-receptor subtype-selective agonist. Because Salvinorin A is a
psychotomimetic selective for kappa opioid receptors, kappa
opioid-selective antagonists may represent novel psychotherapeutic
compounds for diseases manifested by perceptual distortions (e.g.,
schizophrenia, dementia, and bipolar disorders). Additionally, these
results suggest that kappa opioid receptors play a prominent role in the
modulation of human perception.

PMID: 12192085 [PubMed – in process]

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] The heroin was “dynamite”
Date: September 23, 2002 at 1:58:15 PM EDT
To: philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Fri, 20 Sep 2002
Source: Buffalo News (NY)
Copyright: 2002 The Buffalo News
Contact: LetterToEditor@buffnews.com
Website: http://www.buffalonews.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/61
Author: Janice L. Habuda

AGENTS BUY HEROIN BUT FIND OUT IT’S TNT

Federal agents, working on a tip from an informant, were all set to buy 3
kilos of heroin Thursday at a Town of Evans motel. But when they tested
samples to make sure they were getting the real thing, they got a big surprise.

Field tests on two samples from different parts of the shipment didn’t test
positive for heroin – or anything else, said Special Agent Mark Peterson of
the federal Drug Enforcement Administration’s office in Buffalo.

The deal wasn’t going to go through unless what the man was selling was a
controlled substance, so the Erie County Central Police Services laboratory
agreed to do a more sophisticated analysis of the second sample. The result
wasn’t what anyone expected.

“They said, “Come and get this stuff out of here – it’s TNT,’ ” Peterson
said Thursday night.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1784.a05.html

——————————

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stickers one more time plz
Date: September 23, 2002 at 12:17:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 05:51:46AM -0400], [preston peet] wrote:

| I have no idea Ashley, but I felt a little bad that no one ever replies
| to your posts, so I’m replying.;-))
| Peace,
| Preston
| ¬†¬†—– Original Message —–
|   From: Ashley
|   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
|   Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:53 PM
|   Subject: [ibogaine] stickers one more time plz
|
|
|   Could someone please tell me if the Mindvox stickers are the same glow
|   under blacklight ones that are up at level on sobe?

Yeah.

|   ayalounge and thcmiami had them but then they all sold or something.  is
|   what I click from the main page those?

I dunno.  Ask Drew.  Enclose nude photos of yourself and a credit card
number, for faster turnaround time on email responses.  dross@phantom.com

|   thank you, nobody ever replies to any of my mail.

Now you have TWO replies. ¬†See, already you’re building a collection.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings
Date: September 23, 2002 at 12:09:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 20, 2002 at 02:31:13PM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

<…cut…>

| Relying on Web sites and personal e-mail accounts to
| reach their customers, the dealers disguised what they
| were selling by calling their products “Blue Raine”
| ink jet printing supplies and “TonerCleen” solution,
| investigators said.

Shit… ¬†That sucks. ¬†Do you mean to tell me some of those idiots I’ve
added to my mail filters were actually trying to sell me drugs?  Well why
didn’t they just say so. ¬†What’s wrong with people?

Patrick

From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra?????
Date: September 23, 2002 at 10:19:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Richard Davis <rjd1966@lycos.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra?????

It’s there right now. It goes up and down at times.

does anyone know what this is? is this root or indra extract or something
else

http://www.iboga.nl

tnx

Not the same stuff. This is powdered iboga root, ex Gabon, I think, and well
packaged for regular use. It delivers a low dose of iboga alkaloids and is
meant to be taken daily, gradually stepping up the dose, until something
shifts inside of you.

It’s probably worth a go, whatever your issue, but I wouldn’t chuck out the
kind of claims its promoter Chiel Coenen did for it. Maybe it’ll do
something, maybe not. Chiel, a guy with a bit of a booze problem his product
didn’t seem to stop, died last year a couple of weeks after an ibogaine
session.

Nick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] stickers one more time plz
Date: September 23, 2002 at 5:51:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have no idea Ashley, but I felt a little bad that no one ever replies to your posts, so I’m replying.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Ashley
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] stickers one more time plz

Could someone please tell me if the Mindvox stickers are the same glow
under blacklight ones that are up at level on sobe?

ayalounge and thcmiami had them but then they all sold or something.  is
what I click from the main page those?

thank you, nobody ever replies to any of my mail.

/ash

_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

From: “Ashley” <ashley1980@iamwasted.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] stickers one more time plz
Date: September 22, 2002 at 8:53:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Could someone please tell me if the Mindvox stickers are the same glow
under blacklight ones that are up at level on sobe?

ayalounge and thcmiami had them but then they all sold or something.  is
what I click from the main page those?

thank you, nobody ever replies to any of my mail.

/ash

_____________________________________________
Free email with personality! Over 200 domains!
http://www.MyOwnEmail.com

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra??Salvia D-bone???
Date: September 22, 2002 at 6:25:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Excusse me but i must say that salvia is definety helping with my
monster called methaDONE  hes wwhay to high for me. i m helping to
fight the hiyperspace war godbye  friends
— Richard Davis <rjd1966@lycos.com> wrote:

It’s there right now. It goes up and down at times.

does anyone know what this is? is this root or indra extract or
something else

http://www.iboga.nl

tnx

flash gordan wrote:

Hi all ,,,,

does anyone know why indra’s web site is down????? ,
the shops not
working , they shuut shop ??

lots of questions i know

love

nic

_____________________________________________________________
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__________________________________________________
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From: “Richard Davis” <rjd1966@lycos.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] indra?????
Date: September 22, 2002 at 5:54:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s there right now. It goes up and down at times.

does anyone know what this is? is this root or indra extract or something else

http://www.iboga.nl

tnx

flash gordan wrote:

Hi all ,,,,

does anyone know why indra’s web site is down????? , the shops not
working , they shuut shop ??

lots of questions i know

love

nic

_____________________________________________________________
Play the ElvisŇ™ Scratch & Win for your chance to instantly win $10,000 Cash
– a 2003 Harley DavidsonŇ™ SportsterŇ™ – 1 of 25,000 CD’s – and more!
http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail_scratch_tl/http://win.ipromotions.com/lycos_020801/index.asp?tc=7087

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 22, 2002 at 5:21:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
real Drs. and scientists
who do their work at great finical loss to help
those who still suffer.

Does it actually cost them? How much per patient do
you lose?

Oh bullshit. Sell that to someone dumber then you.

It is
the only recognized legitimate study and that is
the
only way Ibo will ever
get legalized.

See above. When? 2050? And what do you have to do with anything. You don’t exist on pubmed or yahoo. You’re some treatment pimp.

So get real  and grateful and put
down your anger.

Right, you tell em, BAD ADDICT.

That right there is the reason I left the abuse of the rooms. Ego tripping assholes with nothing to offer except bullshit. That right there is why rational recovery worked for me.

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 22, 2002 at 5:14:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

What this person said exactly. Relax, I did not write a entire message to pesonally make you get your panties in a bunch. I live near Palo Alto I know only too well what a AMT tax is. I’m sorry your life sucks.

I don’t want to take away anything from what you’ve
said, I don’t know what a AMT is but it sounds like a
lousy deal.

What I found most interesting is just how everyone
only sees what relates to them. You picked two or
three words out of his entire message and went off.
Completely ignoring what he was really saying, which
wasn’t very nice, but it’s interesting ūüôā

Carla B

— Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com> wrote:

LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.

I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
SMOKE CRACK.

I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS
WORTH
OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.

EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY,
I
AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST
READ
HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED
I
OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER
HAD.

THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL
WANT
MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
NEXT 30 YEARS.

ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
MOVE
TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
THEMSELVES
OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.

FUCK YOU IDIOT.

SSSSSSSL8Z
2 EL8 4 EWE

— ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I read this list but don’t reply very often
because
I have the sense that there isn’t a point to
saying
most of what I really think. I signed up here
because of Mindvox and found by accident that
ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
most of you here fall into one of two categories,
either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
things you grow in your garden in the back of your
shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
purpose will get you sued by some of the
shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
making more money. They invested, they didn’t
donate
money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high
tech
companies jumping all over each other to get in
line
to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
should surprise nobody. If the United States
decides
next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
then there will be no shortage of companies lining
up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the
gas
ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas
ovens,
grease the zoning problems that will come up
because
of the gas ovens and write software to control the
gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
save the world or make it a better place. Anything
else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run
a
big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were
posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists
this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure
anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox
and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere
else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 22, 2002 at 5:10:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No kidding. True for many if not most who don’t want all that.

Peace out indeed.

Rational Recovery worked well for me in the beginning. If you’re sick of all the 12 step negative feedback ego tripping, give it a try.

http://www.rational.org

Curtis  Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>

I think whatever gets you through is good. The 12 steps just ha
d
too much negative people telling me do it this way or I will di
e.
That just isn’t true so I found other things to do.

Ibogaine finally being one of them ūüôā

Peace out,
Curtis

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: MMM2002 #41: Kroupa (Ibogaine@mindvox) on Harassment of Gilmore ; Boulder +155 Cities on the March for Global Cannabis Liberation May 3, 2003!
Date: September 22, 2002 at 4:50:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is so great. It goes in here and comes out plastered across half
the earth ūüôā

Both of you are so crazy it’s awesome.

How come I never get quoted anywhere though???????

Preston when this goes into High Times you need to add my name! It’s
easy to spell: v-e-c-t-o-r be sure to mention how cool I am! ūüôā

.:vector:.

— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:

To: greenpartydrugsgroup@gn.apc.org
Cc: “Terry Mitchell” <tushona@hotmail.com>, pariah_mob@yahoo.com,
jc0_66@yahoo.com, “Irena” <irena.krzan@kiss.uni-lj.si>,
“cappleby3014” <cappleby3014@rogers.com>,
“Matthew Jorn” <matthewjorn@hotmail.com>, Newagecitizen@aol.com,
Xpu100 <hri100@iname.com>, mjmarch@cannabismail.com,
info@worldcamp.org,
marijuanamarch@yahoo.com, hempSA@va.com.au,
has.cornelissen@planet.nl,
farid@no-log.org, inorml@inorml.org, <mohemp@hotmail.com>,
Chris Conrad <chris@chrisconrad.com>, iowanorml@home.com,
duncaneddy@hotmail.com, <nfn@watervalley.net>, RoadsEnd@aol.com,
Chris Wright <TCW@genesis-computer.com>, rastapeace@yahoo.com,
pdxnorml@pdxnorml.org, hempSA@va.com.au, smuuthc11@hotmail.com,
acididea@hotmail.com, <anna_ganja@hotmail.com>,
andyganja2001@yahoo.co.uk,
“Melody Karr” <fiddlefoot420@hotmail.com>,
“Howie Hempalot” <torml@weedmail.com>, <fearless_420@hotmail.com>,
mmm@drugpeace.org, melacs42x60@hotmail.com, rebelart@gasgroup.com,
pcornwell@earthlink.net, martin@africandance.de, CAMPNC@hotmail.com,
Boris@headsmagazine.com, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com,
bud_jamesbud@yahoo.com,
mappnow@hotmail.com, xchaos@arachne.cz, btm42@hotmail.com,
amduscias@accesscom.ca, earthfirstswt@hotmail.com,
wachtel@shani.net,
forml420@marijuana.com, Michela Gesualdo <mgesuald@ilmanifesto>,
terryparkerjr@sympatico.ca, fjhc@hotmail, “Razor”
<rzr@powertech.no>,
legalise@tradeshall.org.nz, “Nelg Nella” <spacehippie@hotmail.com>,
phillyweed420@hotmail.com, info@hanf-koordination.ch,
doncriss@yahoo.com,
Peter Bluhm <peterbluhm2001@yahoo.de>, “Joe Wein”
<joewein@pobox.com>,
Blocpot@blocpot.qc.ca, DennyLane@gmavt.net,
linda@anamika.freeserve.co.uk,
rappa@casema.net, <arsec@pangea.org>,
Hanfparaden Center Berlin <hanfparade@hanflobby.de>,
alun <webbooks@paston.co.uk>, <amec@ctv.es>, mayday@onelist.com,
“kathy kennedy” <prohibitionx@hotmail.com>, <freddiefreak@c2i.net>,
sokrates@arachne.cz, <restore@crrh.org>, <rastapeace@yahoo.com>,
“justin ballot” <j_thang@hotmail.com>, Hempsters@aol.com,
texasm5@hotmail.com, “Roy B. Scherer” <rscherer@richmond.infi.net>,
helmut holtzheimer <movemus@gmx.de>, phillty2@yahoo.com,
steph@safeaccessnow.org, “Bill Downing” <billdowning@attbi.com>,
“Dave Toaff” <davetoaff@hotmail.com>, mmm@normal.no,
“Angela Goodhope” <sisterearth420@hotmail.com>,
Usersvoice.jmt@drugscope.org.uk, Michael Palmieri
<forml_2000@yahoo.com>,
PROBER13@aol.com, StewMO1941@aol.com, rmelamed@zoo.uvm.edu,
chris@schmoo.co.uk, pakaloha@gte.net,
werkhausen@mail.isis.de (M. Werkhausen), chairman@votermarch.org,
bloom@hightimes.com, pdr <pdr@echonyc.com>, aksh1@waikato.ac.nz,
fdb@mail.ev1.net, sky@sky.org, <stinkygreens@yahoo.com>,
Hanf-tv@karo4tel.de, blair@technologist.com,
“Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, encimer@hotmail.com,
Skywolf@yahooka.com,
<CFFHS@nm.ru>, al@cannabisrevival.com, globalpeas@email.com,
emanuel@kotzian.de, dangssdp@yahoo.com, fine_time909@hotmail.com,
“Bud Spliff” <normalpotluck2002@hotmail.com>, info@cannabist.org,
OCannabisSociety@aol.com, “Catherine Jones” <mmmfriend@hotmail.com>,
writch@writch.com, cannabisaction@yahoogroups.com,
mary mackenzie <mmackenzie2@juno.com>, hilary@riseup.net,
escandonavia@prodigy.net.mx, jipiando@yahoo.es,
leoparda_azul@hotmail.com,
faenadub@hotmail.com, ultra_plus_estrella@hotmail.com,
helmcke@prodigy.net.mx, m_bandida@hotmail.com,
malcomska@hotmail.com,
foroalici@hotmail.com, taudarknes@hotmail.com

*****!!! May 4, 2002 Cannabis Liberation Day: Updates,
Reports!!!******

Pubdate: Sat, 21 Sep 2002
Source: Daily Yomiuri (Japan)
Copyright: 2002 The Yomiuri Shimbun
Contact: daily@tokyo.yomiuri.co.jp
Website: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/main/main-e.htm
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/629
Author: Ann Endo Special to The Daily Yomiuri

TO YOUR HEALTH – IS EVERYONE BECOMING HIGH ON HEMP?

Pamela was idly strolling through the shopping arcade of her
conservative
small town when she realized she had seen signs in not one but
several store
windows advertising hemp products. Hemp? Isn’t that
cannabis–marijuana?
Wasn’t Paul McCartney arrested, handcuffed, interrogated for more
than a
week, and ultimately deported from Japan for bringing a small supply
of
marijuana into the country? Is marijuana now legal in Japan?

Marijuana is most definitely not legal in Japan today. Importing,
possessing
or selling marijuana still leads to unpleasant close encounters with
the
police and justice system.

“Industrial” hemp and marijuana both belong to the “cannabis sativa”
family
of plants. Cannabis is an annual plant (must be started from seed
every
year), but can reach an amazing height of five meters. All varieties
are
hemp, but only plants with a high amount of the active ingredient
tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) are marijuana.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1776.a10.html

——————————

Pubdate: Sat, 21 Sep 2002
Source: Seattle Times (WA)
Copyright: 2002 The Seattle Times Company
Contact: opinion@seattletimes.com
Website: http://www.seattletimes.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/409
Author: Anthony Faiola, The Washington Post

DRUG LORDS BEFRIEND POOR AS BRAZIL’S GOVERNMENT FAILS

RIO DE JANEIRO – On a steep hillside, an organization is generously
maintaining the local soccer field, donating cash to help operate
day- care
centers, providing cheap transit, staging musical extravaganzas,
offering
medicine and food to needy families and assuring the security of the
more
than 250,000 residents packed into the massive Rocinha ghetto.

There are many such organizations operating throughout Brazil. In
Rocinha,
as in other favelas, the haphazardly constructed slums across Rio and
other
big cities in Latin America’s largest nation, the organizations are
known
as “the Parallel Power” – the new euphemism for Brazil’s increasingly
omnipotent drug lords.

Residents of the favelas, where about 40 percent of Rio’s population
can be
found, say the well-organized gangs of drug traffickers have
essentially
replaced the regular government.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1777.a14.html

——————————

From: Hempfest 2002 <editor@planetarypride.com>
Subject: Mike Patriquen needs our help
X-Sender: editor@planetarypride.com
To: dana@cures-not-wars.org
Reply-to: hempfest@planetarypride.com
Organization: Planetary Pride
Status:

Mike Patriquen needs our help,  while reading this remember that the
day before there was a crack dealer who was busted for crack and guns
and he only got 2 years, they gave Mike 6 YEARS !!!

** URGENT***
Mr. Patriquen has been successfully sentenced to SIX YEARS in federal
custody for cannabis offenses. N.S. Provincial Justice Hood has
declared the issue of Mr. Patriquen’s rights to legally prescribed
course of treatment to be a civil matter while in Federal prison and
thusly denied his Canadian charter rights to medical care.

Under Canadian law Mr. Patriquen has the charter right to pursue a
legally and legitimately prescribed course of treatment even though
he is imprisoned. However, it is also currently illegal to provide
Mr. Patriquen with his prescription while residing in a federal
institution.

For those new to this,  as part of the move into the system
apparently prisoners are moved into observation for several weeks (3
months I think) during which time they are isolated and the process
of assessment begins.

We had all assumed that as Mike Patriquen had been denied his
cannabis prescription, he would be allowed to resume his Oxycontin
treatments upon arrival.

THIS IS NOT THE CASE – AT ALL – !

The prison officials have determined that Mike Patriquen can visit a
doctor when he can make an appointment (read – after everyone else in
line with a cold and hemorrhoid gets seen and they have finished
their assessment) and it may well now be some MONTHS before he is
reassessed and allowed to resume treatment of his spinal cord injury.
Not even an aspirin apparently..

I cannot believe that this can be happening in Canada until I stand
back and realize that in THEIR eyes – Mike MUST be faking an injury
and is trying to con the system (after all – read his sentence
paperwork) and of course this whole Medical Marijuana thing is just a
bunch of hooey too..

After absorbing this outrageous, evil news and speaking with David
and Debbie – I am now writing to alert you that it is now ABSOLUTELY
VITAL that you strongly put the arm on everyone you can – to write
the Minister of Justice AND to sign the recently released online
petition. We ask if you are Canadian of Voting age on the petition –
but anyone with an internet connection is welcome. In fact
International e-mails are welcomed (they seem to carry more weight in
Ottawa these days anyway)..

I know this is a lot to ask folks but as god is my witness this is
getting really out of hand – if we don’t act right away, it will
become the model for every other Medical Marijuana patient who ends
up in custody in Canada.

Please, we must work VERY ACTIVELY to hassle our pals into hassling
their pals into writing the Justice Minister AND signing the petition
as the only – quick – way to get Mike Patriquen remanded to House
Arrest so he can resume treatment – is – to get the Minister to act.
Failing that, we are allowing them to leave him to literally rot
while they get around to looking at his case.

Personally cannot think of a more horrid, despicable, ungodly thing
than to be in severe pain and locked down for 23 hours a day in
effective solitary confinement with no recourse to even speak to a
Doctor. But that is exactly what is happening to Mike Patriquen – AS
OF RIGHT NOW..

Here are the links folks – Mel (and anyone willing to stand by her on
Camera) will be doing a formal press conference towards the middle of
next week which hopefully will get things moving more publicly.. We
have been organizing things like the online petition and our request
to the Justice Minister on www.railroaded.info so we are ready for
public response when we address the media then.

Had we known that Mike Patriquen was in lock-up WITHOUT any medical
attention of any kind, we would have been in touch sooner..

Updated with request to minister and links to petition:
http://www.railroaded.info/

Released to the internet about 20 hours ago –
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/railroad/petition.html

By J Dexter
———

Pubdate: Fri, 20 Sep 2002
Source: Halifax Herald (CN NS)
Copyright: 2002 The Halifax Herald Limited
Contact: letters@herald.ns.ca
Website: http://www.herald.ns.ca/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/180
Author: James McCarten, Canadian Press
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mjcn.htm (Cannabis – Canada)

POT SMOKERS TAKE CASE TO COURT

Medical Marijuana Advocates Fight Ottawa’s Usage Rules

TORONTO (CP) – A band of seriously ill people crowded into court
Thursday
to do battle with Ottawa over a scheme to permit the use of medical
marijuana they say violates their constitutional rights.

The group, with conditions ranging from AIDS and hepatitis C to
epilepsy
and multiple sclerosis, wants to strike down federal rules governing
medicinal pot, as well as the law that makes possession a criminal
offence.
“This is about the right to make fundamental personal decisions,”
Toronto
lawyer and longtime cannabis crusader Alan Young told Superior Court
Justice Sidney Lederman.

“The right to make personal decisions has been called fundamentally
deserving of the highest protection.”

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1764.a03.html

——————————

Pubdate: Thu, 19 Sep 2002
Source: Trenton Times, The (NJ)
Copyright: 2002 The Times
Contact: letters@njtimes.com
Website: http://www.njo.com/times/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/458
Author: Jeff Edelstein, staff writer

A FEDERAL CASE: ‘WEEDMAN’ SEEKS RELIEF FROM HIGHER COURT

The Case Of Ed “Njweedman” Forchion Is Headed To Federal Court.

Believing that he is being held in jail unconstitutionally, Forchion
petitioned the federal district court in Camden for a “writ of habeas
corpus” — lawyer-speak for a federal judge to determine whether an
inmate
is being imprisoned lawfully.

Judge Joseph Irenas accepted Forchion’s petition, and now the state
has
until Oct. 28 to explain to the judge why Forchion is sitting in the
clink

“The judge clearly saw something legitimate,” said John Furlong, a
local
lawyer and expert in these matters. “He [Forchion] made it through
the
door, which puts him head and shoulders above everyone else.”

Furlong explained that the federal courts are deluged with writs of
habeas
corpus, and very few get accepted.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1762.a08.html

———————

Pubdate: Wed, 18 Sep 2002
Source: San Jose Mercury News (CA)
Page: 1
Copyright: 2002 San Jose Mercury News
Contact: letters@sjmercury.com
Website: http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/390
Author: Ken McLaughlin

POT GIVEAWAY IN SANTA CRUZ DRAWS 1,100

Rally Condemns Marijuana Raids

Thumbing their noses at federal drug laws, members of a Santa Cruz
County
medicinal marijuana organization on Tuesday staged their own version
of the
Boston Tea Party.

Only they didn’t dump tea in the harbor. They passed out pot — right
in
front of Santa Cruz City Hall and with the support of local officials
and
several hundred other people.

Their message: The federal government needs to acknowledge that
states like
California should be able to decide for themselves whether marijuana
can be
used as medicine.

The pot giveaway and rally attracted nearly 1,100 people, including
about
200 journalists from around the world who came to witness the latest
— and
most serious challenge yet — to stepped-up federal efforts to
confiscate
the drug from medicinal marijuana clubs and the farms that produce
it.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1749.a06.html

——————————

Pubdate: Wed, 18 Sep 2002
Source: Sacramento Bee (CA)
Webpage:
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/4447794p-5468814c.html
Copyright: 2002 The Sacramento Bee
Contact: opinion@sacbee.com
Website: http://www.sacbee.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/376
Author: Ramon Coronado, Bee Staff Writer
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/find?115 (Cannabis – California)
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mmj.htm (Cannabis – Medicinal)

EMPLOYEE FIRED FOR MEDICAL POT USE SUES FIRM

In what may be a first since California voters passed the medicinal
marijuana law six years ago, a Sacramento man is suing his former
employer
for firing him because he uses doctor-prescribed pot for a disabling
back
condition.

In a lawsuit filed in Sacramento Superior Court, Gary Ross, 40, is
seeking
more than $100,000 in damages from RagingWire Telecommunications
Inc., a
Sacramento-based information-technology firm.

“Californians have said medicinal marijuana is legal. Does an
employer have
the right to fire someone because they don’t agree with the law? I
don’t
think so,” said Ross’ attorney, Stewart Katz.

Webpage:
http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/story/4447794p-5468814c.html
———————————————————–

Pubdate: Fri, 20 Sep 2002
Source: Chico Enterprise-Record (CA)
Copyright: 2002 The Media News Group
Contact: letters@chicoer.com
Website: http://www.chicoer.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/861
Author: Eleanor Cameron

BUTTE CO MMJ PATIENT MIKE FARRELL RAIDED

Doctor’s recommendation no match for warrant in pot raid

The marijuana plants towered more than 17 feet high, visible over the
roof
of the shabby shack off of Wisconsin Street in Chapmantown.

According to Vic Lacey, commander of the Butte Interagency Narcotics
Task
Force-North, an agent attempted to inspect the plants on Tuesday, but
ran
into unusual opposition from the grower, Michael Joseph Farrell, 35.

Farrell, who rents the $175-a-month one-bedroom “bungalow,” climbed a
ladder
onto the roof and hauled it up behind him. Farrell refused to come
down. He
shouted for neighbors to call the media.

The agent left Farrell on the roof, got a warrant and a few friends.

Seven agents were joined by two deputies from the Butte County
Sheriff’s
Office on the Wednesday raid.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1772.a02.html

———————————————————–

Pubdate: Sat, 14 Sep 2002
Source: Santa Cruz Sentinel (CA)
Copyright: 2002 Santa Cruz Sentinel
Contact: editorial@santa-cruz.com
Website: http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/394
Author: Mike Clark

HOLD FEINSTEIN ACCOUNTABLE

California voters could not have been any more clear on the issue of
medical marijuana. Proposition 215, which allows sick people to grow
and
possess this medicine with the recommendation of their doctor, is
state
law, and was passed by a solid majority of California voters. Santa
Cruz
County voters have voted twice by over 70 percent in favor of medical
cannabis.

Sen. Diane Feinstein thumbs her nose at the voters. Her official
position,
articulated today by her Washington office, is that marijuana users,
of
whatever stripe, should be subject to arrest under federal law. Yes,
Sen.
Feinstein is pleased to see AIDS patients and other terminally ill
patients
hauled off to jail!

Ms. Feinstein passes herself off as a “progressive liberal’ who is in
step
with her California constituents. Nothing could be farther from the
truth
and this duplicitous woman should be turned out of office at the next
election. Please call Sen. Feinstein’s San Francisco or Washington
offices
(202-224-3841) to let her know of her isolation from her
constituents.

Mike Clark

Mount Hermon

********************
*****BUSHWHACKED!!*****
*********************

Subject: No More Mr Nice Guy (Nelson Mandela)
Reply-To: portside@yahoogroups.com
Status:

The Guardian (London)
September 19, 2002

No More Mr Nice Guy (Nelson Mandela)

In the past few weeks Nelson Mandela has called America a ‘threat to
world
peace’ and lambasted Dick Cheney as a ‘dinosaur’. That’s not the sort
of
language you’d expect from the kindly old statesman who forgave his
jailers.
But he has always been misunderstood in the west. And now he’s got
something
to be really angry about

By Gary Younge

Say what you like about Nelson Mandela, but he is not a man known to
bear a
grudge or lose his temper easily. Having waited 27 years for his
freedom, he
emerged from jail to preach peace and reconciliation to a nation
scarred by
racism. When he finally made the transition from the world’s most
famous
prisoner to the world’s most respected statesman, he invited his
former
jailer to the inauguration. So when he criticises US foreign policy
in terms
every bit as harsh as those he used to condemn apartheid, you know
something
is up. In the past few weeks, he has issued a “strong condemnation”
of the
US’s attitude towards Iraq, lambasted vice-president Dick Cheney for
being a
“dinosaur” and accused the US of being “a threat to world peace”.

Coming from other quarters, such criticisms would have been dismissed
by
both the White House and Downing Street as the words of appeasement,
anti-Americanism or leftwing extremism. But Mandela is not just
anyone.
Towering like a moral colossus over the late 20th century, his voice
carries
an ethical weight like no other. He rode to power on a global wave of
goodwill, left office when his five years were up and settled down to
a life
of elder statesmanship. So the belligerent tone he has adopted of
late
suggests one of two things; either that some thing is very wrong with
the
world, or that something is very wrong with Mandela.

What Mandela believes is wrong with the world is not difficult to
fathom. He
is annoyed at how the US is exploiting its overwhelming military
might.
Earlier this month, after President Bush would not take his calls, he
spoke
to secretary of state Colin Powell and then the president’s father,
asking
the latter to discourage his son from attacking Iraq.

“What right has Bush to say that Iraq’s offer is not genuine?” he
asked on
Monday. “We must condemn that very strongly. No country, however
strong, is
entitled to comment adversely in the way the US has done. They think
they’re
the only power in the world. They’re not and they’re following a
dangerous
policy. One country wants to bully the world.”

Having supported the bombing of Afghanistan, he cannot be dismissed
as a
peacenik. But his assessment of the current phase of Bush’s war on
terror is
as damning as anything coming out of the Arab world. “If you look at
these
matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the
United
States of America is a threat to world peace.”

And then there is the dreaded “r” word. Accusations of discrimination
do not
fall often or easily from Mandela’s lips, but when they do, the world
is
forced to sit up and listen. So far, he has fallen short of accusing
the
west of racism in its dealings with the developing world, but he has
implied
sympathy with those who do. “When there were white secretary
generals, you
didn’t find this question of the US and Britain going out of the UN.
But now
that you’ve had black secretary generals, such as Boutros Boutros
Ghali and
Kofi Annan, they do not respect the UN. This is not my view, but that
is
what is being said by many people.”

Most surprising in these broadsides has been his determination to
point out
particular individuals for blame. As a seasoned political hand,
Mandela has
previously eschewed personal invective but has clearly made an
exception
when it comes to Cheney. In 1986, Cheney voted against a resolution
calling
for his release because of his alleged support for “terrorism”.
Mandela
insists that he is not motivated by pique. “Quite clearly we are
dealing
with an arch-conservative in Dick Cheney… my impression of the
president
is that this is a man with whom you can do business. But it is the
men
around him who are dinosaurs, who do not want him to belong to the
modern
age.”

In fact, behind the scenes, the White House is attempting to portray
Mandela, now 84, as something of a dinosaur himself – the former
leader of
an African country, embittered by the impotence that comes with
retirement
and old age. It is a charge they have found difficult to make stick.
Mandela
has never been particularly encumbered by delusions of grandeur. When
asked
whether he would be prepared to mediate in the current dispute, he
replied.
“If I am asked by credible organisations to mediate, I will consider
that
very seriously. But a situation of this nature does not need an
individual,
it needs an organisation like the UN to mediate. A man who has lost
power
and influence can never be a suitable mediator.”

In truth, since leaving office he has shown consummate diplomatic
skill. In
1999, he persuaded Libyan leader Colonel Gadafy to hand over the two
alleged
intelligence agents indicted in the 1988 Lockerbie bombing. He was
touted as
a possible mediator in the Middle East – a suggestion quashed by the
Israeli
government, which was apartheid’s chief arms supplier.

Last year he was personally involved in the arrangement – sanctioned
by the
UN – to send South African troops to Burundi as a confidence-building
measure in a bid to forestall a Rwandan-style genocide. That does not
mean
he always gets it right. He advocated a softly-softly diplomatic
approach
towards the Nigerian regime when Ken Saro-Wiwa was on death row.
Saro-Wiwa
was murdered and Abacha’s regime remained intact. Nor does it mean
that he
is above criticism. Arguably, he could have done more to redistribute
wealth
during his term in office in South Africa, and he maintained strong
diplomatic relations with some oppressive regimes, such as Indonesia.
In
July, a representative of those killed in the Lockerbie disaster
described
Mandela’s call for the bomber to be transferred to a muslim country
as
“outrageous”. But it does mean that he is above the disparagement and
disdain usually shown to leaders of the developing world that the
west find
awkward.

But if there is something wrong with Mandela it is chiefly that for
the past
decade he has been thoroughly and wilfully misunderstood. He has been
portrayed as a kindly old gent who only wanted black and white people
to get
along, rather than a determined political activist who wished to
redress the
power imbalance between the races under democratic rule. In the years
following his release, the west wilfully mistook his push for peace
and
reconciliation not as the vital first steps to building a consensus
that
could in turn build a battered nation but as a desire to both forgive
and
forget.

When he displayed a lack of personal malice, they saw an abundance of
political meekness. There is an implicit racism in this that goes
beyond
Mandela to the way in which the west would like black leaders to
behave.
After slavery and colonialism, comes the desire to draw a line under
the
past and a veil over its legacy. So long as they are preaching
non-violence
in the face of aggression, or racial unity where there has been
division,
then everyone is happy. But as soon as they step out of that comfort
zone,
the descent from saint to sinner is a rapid one. The price for a
black
leader’s entry to the international statesman’s hall of fame is not
just the
sum of their good works but either death or half of their adult life
behind
bars.

In order to be deserving of accolades, history must first be
rewritten to
deprive them of their militancy. Take Martin Luther King, canonised
after
his death by the liberal establishment but vilified in his last years
for
making a stand against America’s role in Vietnam. One of his aides,
Andrew
Young, recalled: “This man who had been respected worldwide as a
Nobel Prize
winner suddenly applied his non-violence ethic and practice to the
realm of
foreign policy. And no, people said, it’s all right for black people
to be
non-violent when they’re dealing with white people, but white people
don’t
need to be non-violent when they’re dealing with brown people.”

So it was for Mandela when he came to Britain in 1990, after telling
reporters in Dublin that the British government should talk to the
IRA,
presaging developments that took place a few years later. The then
leader of
the Labour party, Neil Kinnock, called the remarks “extremely
ill-advised”;
Tory MP Teddy Taylor said the comments made it “difficult for anyone
with
sympathy for the ANC and Mandela to take him seriously.”

He made similar waves in the US when he refused to condemn Yasser
Arafat,
Colonel Gadafy and Fidel Castro. Setting great stock by the loyalty
shown to
both him and his organisation during the dog days of apartheid, he
has
consistently maintained that he would stick by those who stuck by
black
South Africa. It was wrong, he told Americans, to suggest that “our
enemies
are your enemies… We are a liberation movement and they support our
struggle to the hilt.”

This, more than anything, provides the US and Britain with their
biggest
problem. They point to pictures of him embracing Gaddafi or
transcripts of
his support for Castro as evidence that his judgment has become
flawed over
the years. But what they regard as his weakness is in fact his
strength. He
may have forgiven, but he has not forgotten. His recent criticisms of
America stretch back over 20 years to its “unqualified support of the
Shah
of Iran [which] lead directly to the Islamic revolution of 1979”.

The trouble is not that, when it comes to his public pronouncements,
Mandela
is acting out of character. But that, when it comes to global
opinion, the
US and Britain are increasingly out of touch.

Additional reporting by Shirley Brooks
——————–

Pubdate: Thu, 19 Sep 2002
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2002 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Patrick Wintour, chief political correspondent
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/decrim.htm (Decrim/Legalization)

LEGALISE ALL DRUGS WORLDWIDE, SAYS MOWLAM

Mo Mowlam, the former cabinet minister responsible for drugs policy,
is
calling for the international legalisation of the drugs trade as part
of a
more effective drive to combat terrorism.

Writing in the Guardian today, Ms Mowlam says: “Rather than bombing
civilians in various Muslim countries, the United States and Britain
should
begin to take a more intelligent approach to the international drugs
trade,
namely to legalise it internationally.”

Ms Mowlam, already an advocate of the legalisation of cannabis in
Britain,
is unlikely to find her latest proposal embraced by Downing Street
but she
will find support from some drugs specialists, who believe the battle
to
stop trafficking, with its inextricable links with terrorism, cannot
succeed
through mere suppression.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1763.a02.html

——————————

Pubdate: Wed, 18 Sep 2002
Source: Reason Online (US)
Copyright: 2002 The Reason Foundation
Contact: letters@reason.com
Website: http://www.reason.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/359
Author: Jacob Sullum
Note: Jacob Sullum is a Reason senior editor. He is the author of a
book on
the morality of drug use, forthcoming in June from Tarcher/Putnam.

Editors’ Links

THE DRUG CZAR MUST ABDICATE

According to survey data released this month, past-month use of
illegal
drugs increased from 6.3 percent in 2001 to 7.1 percent last year.
These
numbers can mean only one thing: It’s payback time.

“Drug use has gone up significantly during the first full year of the
Bush
Administration,” crows Bob Weiner, spokesman for the Office of
National
Drug Control Policy (ONDCP) for most of the Clinton years. The
headline
over the press release reads, “Survey: Bush Reversing Drug Use
Reductions.”

Weiner says “the new administration needs to quit laying blame and
start
supporting successful Clinton era bipartisan drug programs such as
the
National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign.” He bravely insists that a
“comprehensive strategy” of “education, prevention, treatment, law
enforcement, and foreign policy initiatives must continue to be
funded in
full.”

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1759.a12.html

——————————
.
****!!! IBOGAINE TREATMENT NOW $1500 IN HOLLAND–CALL SARA,
0113134-624-1770 !!!****

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Rock the Fuck Out John Gilmore!
Status:

That’s it, I’m suing EVERYBODY! ¬†<shaking fist at sky>

Plus, also, I’m not done talking about that open-relay mail server
incident quite yet.

Patrick

http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0210/gilmore.html

IF YOU WANT YR CONTACT ON THE NEW IBOGAINE POSTER, SET UP AN IBOGAINE
DROP-IN CENTER TODAY!
********************************************************************

To get on the poster for the 2003 Global March for Cannabis
Liberation, check yr contact info and add yr city to the List, which
right now consists of 155 cities:

Abbotsford: 604-607-1111 Tim Felger <tfleger@shaw.ca> About 100
marchers who refused to pay to march.

Albuquerque: Rob Taylor (505) 565-4150 or Rich Haley
<writch@writch.com> ¬†Between 500 and 1000 participants in ’02, no
arrests

Amherst: Angela Panaccione panaccio@student.umass.edu

Amsterdam: +31(0)20-6107807 +31(0)6-16314682 http://www.legalize.net
http://www.legalize.org

Arlington: Paula Matson 817-299-8447

Athens:

Auckland: Chris Fowlie norml@apc.org.nz ph 09 302-5255 2000
participants in ’02.

Austin: Tracy Hayes <marijuanamarch4@hotmail.com> 512.693.2356, cell
512.587.8838, 900 Bouldin, Austin TX, 78704  Nearly 1,000
participants in ’02.

Batesville/Oxford:  662-578-6993 Gary / NFN Enterprise
<nfn@watervalley.net> 1509 Orwood Rd. 250 protestors in ’02, no
arrests.

Baton Rouge: Robinptilley@aol.com (225)667-9270

Battle Creek: “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net> 616-697-4521
http://www.geocities.com/legalizemichigan/battlecreek.htm 20 to 60
folks in ’02.

Berlin: Martin Muencheberg <martin@hanflobby.de> 0049-30-29490201
http://www.hanfparade.de 200 participants, 2,000 spectators in ’02.

Berne: Swiss Hanf Koordination Sekretariat + 41-31-398-1444
<infor@hanf-koordination.ch> Roman will know which Swiss cities
are marching.

Birmingham: Grow More Weed Campaign, PO Box 9121, Birmingham
B138AU. 01212561303. (Mark Badger) Fax: 0121 256 1302. email:
growmoreweed@ironmanrecords.co.uk www.growmoreweed.co.uk
March/Festival foundered over Biblical interpretation; just 20 people
in ’02.

Boone: Stan Chamberlain stanno1c@aol.com  ASU Box 07947, Boone NC
28608  828-266-8633

Boston: Massachusetts Cannabis Reform Coalition\NORML P.O. Box
0266, Georgetown, MA 01833-0366 781-944-2266 –
http://www.masscann.org – 781-779-1334 fax Signature-gathering drive
in ’02.

Boulder:  Ralph Shnelvar  ralph@snelrar.com 303-546-6125 or Fred
Smith 303-449-2390 <smithmf@stripe.colorado.edu>

Braunschweig: <cannabislegal@gmx.net> This is an info stall in
Braunschweig distributing leaflets and other information
material from a stall in a shopping area.

Bremen: Silke Tel. 0179/180 25 25 Lieder@web.de Olaf 0162/77 34
576 Party-Project: 33 99 334 party@party-project.de Some 300
participants in ’02 despite the bad weather.

Brno: Vaclav Linkov, <linkov@math.muni.cz> Tel.: +420-737-811107
http://www.legalizace.cz  http://www.l.s.cz

Brussels: Ottavio Marzocchi <omarzocchi@europarl.eu.int>
+32-2-284-5496 www.radicalparty.org

Bucharest:  ClauditZa  clauditza_f@yahoo.com
www.iarba.verde.de.acasa.go.ro 004092195819  address: Spliff
Decision, viorele street, nr 34  Bucharest, Romania or Poke
www.marihuana.ro 004091343202 address: piata romana, Bucharest,
Romania ¬†¬†300 active smokers on a small beach named Kudos in ’02.

Buffalo: Philip L Beavers jr./B.A.C.H <BLocman420@aol.com>
716-895-1987  or 716-578-3410 1160 E. LOVEJOY (st) buffalo 14206
600-700 people over the course of the day in ’02; all 3 networks; no
police problems

Burlington: Denny Lane / Brendan Kinney, Vermont Libertarian
Party & VT-NORML dennylane@gmavt.net / chair@vtlp.org (802)
496-2387 http://vtnorml.org/MMM 802-496-2387 POB 537, Waitesfield, Vt
05673 or matt hogg
<mhogg@zoo.uvm.edu (802) 865-9410. 1,000 in attendence in ’02, no
arrests.

Capetown: “greggoodwin” <greggoodwin@mweb.co.za> or “Marcus \(Home\)”
<mt3825@freemail.absa.co.za> 100 people, mostly Rasta’s, in ’02.

Charlotte: Ragan Tolbert OnThatLevel@aol.com

Chicago: Caren Thomas, WCHDB, 2501 N. Lincoln, PMB#157; Chicago,
IL 60614; 773-381-9330 Рcell Р847-344-9394 email  or 773-363-2942
chicagomarch2002@hotmail.com -or- windycityhemp420@hotmail.com
http://www.windycityhemp.org

Chico: 530-345-1997 <chicodank@hotmail.com> or
http://www.pot-party.com or adrian aguilar ode2thewalls@aol.com
(530)898-2150 or voicemail pgr 530-571-2071 Approx. 420 participants
in ’02.

Christchurch: Blair Anderson <blair@technologist.com> Mild Green
Media Centre ph: ++64 3 389-4065 Website
pages.quicksilver.net.nz/blair Newsforum
news://http://www.reddfish.co.nz/alcp 500 participants in ’02.

Cincinnati: the Happy Hemptress <hemptress@hemprock.com> 513-684-HEMP

Cleveland: John <OCannabisSociety@aol.com> (216)521-9333
http://www.timesoft.com/ncnorml 2,000 participants. No arrests.

Cologne: gow!Club CannaCom e.V. /redAktion: 0221 562-6347
“Vinnie” <info@grow.de> http://www.grow.de Info booth by grow! w.
JES, akzept &
VfD drew interest…

Colorado Springs: Bob Melamede <rmelamed@uccs.edu> or
Mstrmanic@aol.com Stephan Ballasch Continuous presence of a few
hundred people in the park in ’02.

Columbus: Russ Selkirk, Sean Luse OSU-SSDP
<mailto:osussdp@hotmail.com>osussdp@hotmail.com   614-291-1026 or Ken
Schweickart 614-265-VOTE
<mailto:dpeo@earthlink.net>dpeo@earthlink.net  650 participants, no
arrests.

Concord: (603)682-9077 nhorml@yahoo.com or http://www.nhorml.org.org
30 people in ’02, no cops.

Copenhagen: Klaus Tuxen hampenyt@hampenyt.dk
http://www.hampepartiet.dk or Zid Dhartha mr_azid@hotmail.com
http://www.christiania.org/ (+0045) 32 95 65 07 org: Hampepartiet (
The party For HEMP)  http://www.hampepartiet.dk address: F.H.B.
hampens plads Christiania, 1407 Kbh. K.150 on march, 500 at smoke-in
in ’02.

Daingerfield: johnny s. chambliss  rollinxoxo@aol.com p.o. box 484,
ore city, texas 75683

Darwin: mick lambe pariahnt@yahoo.com http://napnt.tripod.com 30
marchers, 35 police, but no arrests due media spotlite.

DeKalb: “Adam Timm” <itsmeuwant2c@hotmail.com>

Denver: Ken Gorman 303-935-6534 or ralph@snelrar.com 303-546-6125

Des Moines: iowanorml@mchsi.com (515) 288-5798
iowanorml.home.mchsi.com/ http://commonlink.com/~olsen/ ,
mojo.calyx.net/~olsen/ ,  http://iowanorml.org/
http://www.druglibrary.org/olsen/index.html ; or Terry Mitchell
(515) 789-4442; 608 Dallas St., Dexter, Iowa 50070. 300 marchers,
police friendly.

Detroit: “Professor Hemp” <newagecitizen@aol.com> 313-563-3192 or
“jude
joseph” acididea@hotmail.com 313 438 1668
http://www.geocities.com/legalizemichigan/detroit.htm 90 to 120
participants exposed to Ibogaine message.

Dover: “Richard J. Schimelfenig” <rschimel@temple.edu> Delaware
Cannabis Society c/o Richard J.
Schimelfenig, 3504 Winterhaven Drive, Newark, DE 19702, (302)
456-9402 299 demonstrators, 8,000 spectators, cops watched and did
nothing in ’02.

Dublin: “Butler, Philip” <phillty2@yahoo.com> +353 1 4163707 or
<jday@iamwasted.com> http://www.cannabisireland.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group//ie-cannabis/ 1,000 people in “02.

Duesseldorf: Marlon Werkhausen <marlon@gesellschaftsprobleme.de>
http://www.gesellschaftsprobleme.de phone: 049-172-7591795.
100 participants, good atmosphere.

Durban: <ezpz.co.za> or <ezpz@telkomsa.net> +27 31 2016 359
PHONE AND FAX. http://www.ezpz.co.za Post net Suite 136, Private
Bag X 04, DALBRIDGE, 4014, SOUTH AFRICA Justin Ballot, 134 Clark
Road, Durban 4001, South Africa

Edinburgh: “Linda Hendry”<linda@anamika.freeserve.co.uk> UK –
0131 667-6488

Eugene: Kris Millegan <Hempsters@aol.com> 800-556-2012
http://www.ctrl.org/mmm ¬†¬†¬†¬†600-800 folks in ’02. One arrest.

Fairbanks: Timothy 907-474-9007

Feldkirch: <kontakt@legalisieren.at> 3. Hempfest Organized by
Legalize! √∑sterreich and Burgerinitiative Cannabis (Citizens’
Initiative Cannabis)

Flensburg: Peter Bluhm <peter-bluhm@foni.net> phone: Irene:
04632-871771 Peter: 0461-13620

Flint: Rev. A.S.”Happy” Wright <happy_hempster@yahoo.com> 989
872 8005 http://www.geocities.com/legalizemichigan/flint.htm 100
participants in ’02.

Ft. Lauderdale: Sean LaPierre 954-584-8979 4750 N.W. 10th Court (Apt.
314), Plantation, FL 33313 email: imagic music@aol.com  200
participants, 500 spectators, no arrests.

Ft Wayne:  NickStreet@comcast.net  (260) 496-8542

Ft. Worth: “Chet Frank” <chet56@msn.com> 5600 North beach St., Fort
Worth TX 76137

Garberville : 707 923 4488 “Paul Encimer” <encimer@hotmail.com>
Box 162, Piercy CA 95587; or “jeri” <jeri@humboldt.net>

Halifax: 902 865-8606 Michael Patriquin <mpat@accesswave.ca>
HempWorks, 93 Orchard Dr, Middle Sackville, Nova Scotia B4E 3B3

Hamburg: Martina Katzsch <hanftv@sensimilla.com> ++49 40 4394493
Kulturhaus Eppendorf ¬†about 70 people in ’02.

Hayward: Rebecca Oliver  mil_mari_march@ix.netcom.com.  510.481.5349
617 grant ave, slz, ca 94580
Event Location : Hayward BART Organization : Loose Confederation of
Med. Mari Users Rally @ BART station & march in the San Francisco
parade, as soon as they get it together–concert? maybe.

Hearst: ¬†“Les Neron” <lesneron@ntl.sympatico.ca> 1-705-362-8402
Robert Neron(Federal Exemptee)
Box:1346, Hearst Ontario P0L 1N0

Helsinki : Finnish Cannabis Association http://www.sky.org
sky@sky.org Finnish Cannabis Association,
Sorvaajankatu 9 A, 00810 Helsinki, Finland 800 participants in ’02.

Hilo: Roger Christie <pakaloha@gte.net> (808) 961-0488
http://www.thc-ministry.org 200 in ’02.

Houston: Dean Farrell <fdb@mail.ev1.net> (281)752-9198.
http://www.cultural-baggage.com c/o Dean Becker, 11215 Oak
Spring, Houston, TX 77043 Total attendance was about 5 hundred in
’02. Narc infiltrators mar event.

Hull: Carl Wagner phone: +44 01482494789   5 Victoria Square,
Ella Street, Hull HU5 3AL, U.K. 3-400 on March grew to 1,000 in jam
in Pearson Park. Cops backed down after threatening arrest because of
media frenzy.

Huntsville: Angel Starlin 256-858-0543, cell 655-6109 or “Acorn”
256-489-2607 or <mikecrockett256@yahoo.com>
1267-A jupiter court, Redstone Arsenal, AL 35808.

Indianapolis: Neal Smith, <inorml@inorml.org>, 317-335-6023
Voice Mail, 3601 N. Pennsylvania, Indianapolis, IN 46205
http://www.inorml.org 175 participants at peak in ’02.

Ithaca: Adam Hirsch <ah222@cornell.edu>, 111 Dryden Rd(Apt 9C),
Ithaca, NY 14850. (607) 227-0302   200 marchers in quiet protest in
’02.

Jefferson City: Al Minta (417)885-3993
http://www.cannabisrevival.com/ cannabisal@aol.com address: 1653
N. Patterson (Apt A), Springfield, MO 65803 or Columbia
NORML/Jeremy & Amanda 573-815-9821 400 participants over the day in
’02.

Jerusalem: Joseph  NeedelR@aol.com (011 972) 55-344-859

Kansas City: <mohemp@hotmail.com> David 816-678-7447, ‘its a
beautiful day’ 3918 broadway, kansas city mo. 64111… 816 931
6169.

Kent: 330-673-3060 Matthew S. Donowick 237 1/2 E. Summit st.,
Kent, OH 44242 <TennJedJr@aol.com> 45 people, event overshadowed by
Kent remembrance in ’02.

Knoxville: Aerow Albrook <sparx17@yahoo.com> Matt Barker  316
Russfield Dr., Knoxville, TN  37922

Lansing: Kathy Kennedy 517-628-3915 or e-mail: “kathy kennedy”
<prohibitionx@hotmail.com>
http://www.geocities.com/legalizemichigan/lansing.htm 300
participants in ’02.

Leipzig: C.U. Rolf http://www.feinkost13.org tel 03412131477 or
“veejaykay” <veejaykay@gmx.li> rolfdereinzigename@gmx.de,
lxc@protocut.net j¬Ėrg klepsch, simildenstr.12, 04277
Leipzig-germany  Parade w. 1000-1500 participants and
10 loudspeaker trucks, following the route of the famous 1989
demonstrations that brought down the wall, swelling to 2000 people
who braved pouring rain at main train station. One arrest.

Lexington: Gatewood Gailbrath 859-259-1522  gatewood@mis.net

Little Rock: Jamie Collins <k_kar420@yahoo.com> (501) 663-4216
1516 Fairpark Blvd., Little Rock, Ark. 72204 45 marchers at State
Capitol, not one arrest.

Ljubljana: borut.delfabbro@kiss.uni-lj.si #352; ou-Lj,
Kersnikova 4, 1000 Ljubljana or  Mojca Štraus  mojca@drogart.com
0038641786490  Vinski vrh5a, 3240 Šmarje pri jelšah, Ljubljana,
Slovenia www.konoplja.org  http://www.sou.uni-lj.si/
Rally Concert

London: International Cannabis Coalition (UK), PO Box 2243,
London, W1A 1YF, UK. Chris: 020 7637 7467. Fax: 0870 0548646. E
Mail: may2001@schmoo.co.uk http://www.cannabiscoalition.org.htm
10,000 on the march, 30,000 at the festival; no police prolems.

Los Angeles: Sister Somayah 323-232-0935
http://www.geocities.com/sistersomayah/events.htm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sister-somayah 175 participants, S.
Central.

Madison: Ben Masel <bmasel@tds.net> weedstock.com 40 to 120
participants.

Manchester: Cannabis Coalition (Manchester), 57 Church Street,
Smithfield Buildings, Manchester, M4. Tel: 0161 834 1130. email:
Gingrach@yahoo.com 600 marchers in ’02.

Melbourne: Kevin Aplin FL CAN (321)-726-6656. Jodi James –
Coalition Advocating Medical Marijuana 321-253-3673. 200 in parade,
total media coverage; one obstruction of justice citation for filming
a cop ticketing some one for an open container.

Mexico City: +5300 5774 email: helmcke@prodigy.net.mx or
volgn@hotmail.com or”Tato” ¬†foigras2002@yahoo.com.br “Camello”
cosmocamello@vivecondrogas.com ¬†“Asoc. Mexicana de Estudios Sobre el
Cannabis” <amecamexico@hotmail.com> Leopoldo Rivera
Rivera/AsociaciŇįn Mexicana de Estudios sobre el Cannabis,
Amapola # 35, col. Jardines del Molinito, Naucalpan, Estado de
MńĆxico. CP. 53530 MEXICO or Adolfo Prieto 1003, Col. del Valle,
C.P. 03100, Mexico, D.F. or Samuel Martínez Ramírez
Av. Azcapotzalco #193-4 Col. Clavería Mexico D.F.
www.vivecondrogas.com, www.amecamexico.org, www.hemp.com.mx Almost
300 people in ’02.

Miami: Glenn Allen, 42c s.e.12th st. Dania, Fl 33004, 954-929-7025
aka “Nelg Nella” <spacehippie@hotmail.com> ¬†A smoke out/drum circle
in Peacock Park with lots of good bud.

Milwaukee: “Dominic Salmaan” <cannabisliberation@hotmail.com>
414-469-0899. 1525 E. Royall (Apt # 14), Milw., WI 563202. Over 100
people marched for 3 1/2 hrs. in ’02. No police problems.

Minneapolis: Grassroots Party or Chris Wright
<TCW@genesis-computer.com> 612-522-5374. 400 folks, no arrests in
’02.

Missoula: Angela Goodhope <sisterearth420@hotmail.com> (406) 829-1703
Approx. 420 participants in ’02.

Montpelier: Rama Schneider <2001@ramabahama.net> (802) 433-5441
address: 1614 Gilbert Road, Williamstown, VT 05679
http://www.ramabahama.net Several people handed out literature in
’02.

Montreal: Marc-Boris St-Maurice <blocpot@blocpot.qc.ca>
(514)528.1768 3,000 marched 4 1/2 miles; no cops in ’02.

Moscow: http://www.cures.by.ru  d-form@mail.ru

Nashville: “Howie & Marivuana Leinoff” <torml@weedmail.com>
<mailto:marivuana@comcast.net>or marivuana@comcast.net (615)ACT-HIGH.
<http://www.marivuana.com>http://www.marivuana.com
<>http://www.punkenstein.com
150 marchers, no arrests; first tv coverage in ’02.

Norfolk:

Newark: “Richard J. Schimelfenig” <rschimel@temple.edu> Delaware
Cannabis Society c/o Richard J.
Schimelfenig, 3504 Winterhaven Drive, Newark, DE 19702, (302)
456-9402

New Orleans : Daisy 504-957-HERB hemp.rox.com
email:<NewOrleansMarch@hotmail.com>

New Paltz: newpaltznorml@yahoo.com NORML / SSDP PO Box 775, New
Paltz, NY 12561 500 marchers, well over 2,000 at concert in ’02.

New York City: Dana 212-677-7180 <dana@cures-not-wars.org> 7,000
participants in ’02. 148 arrests.

Nimbin: Max Stone of the Australian Cannabis Law Reform
Movement” aclrm@nimbinaustralia.com ph: 61 0266 891842
http://www.nimbinaustralia.com
http://www.bigbongburgerbar.com/webshow/ 24,000 participants in ’02.
No arrests.

Normal: ¬†Nearly ¬†1,000 participants in ’02. Zach Thomas and Miriam
Sterlin, Mobilizing Activists and Students for Hemp (MASH)   Phone #
:    309-275-6112/309-2756110 http://www.mashaction.org e-mail:
mash@mashaction.org

Nuernberg: Emanuel Kotzian  phone: 0049-(0) 172- 818 217 8  agentur
sowjet – info@sowjet.de – ¬†450 people marched in the rain in ’02.

Oberlin: Patty Hallman <sbysc@hotmail.com> (440)774-4544) c/o
Stitch by Stitch & Curiousities, 31 South Main Street, Oberlin,
OH 44074

Omaha: Paul Tripp, paultrip@cox.net, (402)598-6180 12216 Poppleton
Plz. #238, Omaha, NE, 68144 ¬†¬†Over 30 participants in ’02.

Orlando: Kacie Grange Hiphiplady32@aol.com (407)895-3492

Oslo: <mmm@normal.no> normal.no/mmm Torkel BjŇĽrnson, NORMAL,
Hjelmsgt 3, N0-0158 Oslo, Norway 3000+ participants. No arrests.

Ottawa: “deadmanseedco” <deadmanseedco@rogers.com> 613-749-3014
Don Appleby or Rick Reimer at 613-756-2961 or Rob Brown at
613-756-5892 Crowds in the hundreds, almost no arrests.

Paducah: Paula (270)362-9849 <pioneer@apex.net>, Cher
Ford-McCullough <bitchcrafts@whynotsmokepot.com> 65 Cabin Lane,
Gilbertsvile, Ky. 42044 or Brian McCullough
< bpmc@webtv.net> (270) 362-8186 50 marchers, 90 at rally, one
undercover in ’02.

Paradise: Virgil Hales 530-877-5814

Paris: FARId GHEHIOUECHE 06 148 156 79
<mailto:farid@no-log.org>farid@no-log.org
or CAM-RD 9, passage Dagorno 75020 PARIS
Tel : 00 33 (1) 40 09 69 75 Fax : 00 33 (1) 44 93 93 57
Like in 2001 and 2002, for MMM 2003 there will be rallies around
France (Montpellier, Lyon, Rennes, Marseille, Lille, Annecy,…) and
in Paris, the nation wide gathering in Bastille place 3:00 PM.

Parkersburg: “Cindy Wimer” <indianbud@wirefire.com> “Mountaineers for
Medical Marijuana” 304-428-1726

Patterson: David Germolus 209-892-6640  angelwater260@aol.com  420
hoffman ct.,  Patterson, california

Philadelphia: <phillyweed420@hotmail.com> or “chuck palmer”
<chuckp@CritPath.Org> 610-279-6358  100 participants, no arrests in
’02.

Phoenix: donovan criss  doncriss@yahoo.com 602-486-6145 1635 w.
grovers av. phoenix,az 85023 or rex 602-618-4521 2222 w beardsly rd
#1119 phoenix,az 85027

Pilsen: http://www.exist.cz “pavla kozakova” <exist@post.cz>
200 people and one sound system in central park in ’02. No arrests.

Pittsburg:

Pordenone: Anna Cavezzali & Ivan Romano <lallice@inwind.it>, Via
Firenze 5, 33080 Porcia, PN, Italy
++3282488420 ++43428098

Portland: (503) 239-6110 MMM 2002 Committee c/o Oregon NORML
(OrNORML) http://www.ornorml.org PO Box 86443, Portland, OR
97286 Madeline Martinez yerbanena@hotmail.com or Steven M.
Cooper Volunteer Coordinator ornorml.volunteer@att.net  Grew from 200
people, no arrests.

Prague: Michael “xChaos” Polak <xchaos@arachne.cz> Tel: +420 603
872631 / +420 2 33358050  http://www.legalizace.cz 1-2,000
participants in ’02, with hundreds more in nearby park. No marijuana
related arrests in Prague (police just arrested offender, who broke
police car window, but this was after MMM officially ended).

Providence:  Tom <psilocyberspore@cox.net> (401) 737-7057
http://members.cox.net/psilocyberspore Just 6 people in ’02.

Raleigh-Durham: Bryan T. Moore <btm42@hotmail.com> 614 Carolina
Ave. Raleigh, NC 27606-1606 (919) 816-0609 or “Jeff Badalucco”
<nc_ca@hotmail.com> (919)834-2816 238 Pecan St., Raleigh, NC
27603 200 souls braved pouring rain in ’02. Capitol cops
well-behaved, but city cops tried to intimidate.

Rapid City: Bob Newland <newland@rapidcity.com> 877-687-5297,
605-255-4032 website: http://www.sodaknorml.org/  300 marchers in
’02.

Reno: Michelle 775-287-1594 or Sharon Noble 775-971-9237. 11540
Rocky Mt. St., Reno, NV 89505.

Richmond: “Roy B. Scherer” <rscherer@richmond.infi.net> (804)
355-7612, or campus libs at <Huclberie1@aol.com.> About 100
attendees; march was 4 miles.

Rio de Janeiro: +55 – 21 – 9885 9162 mmmbr2002@yahoo.com or ¬†“Luiz
Paulo” <lpgb@mtecnet.com.br> 500 participants in ’02.

Rome: “Segreteria Forte Prenestino” <segreteria@forteprenestino.net>
or Michela Gesualdo
<mgesuald@ilmanifesto> 10-15,000 participants in ’02.

Rosario: +54 – 341 – 4642699 or +54 – 341 – 155093184 E-mail:
raddud@hotmail.com Corrientes 1307, 2000 – Rosario- ARGENTINA Nearly
400 participants in ’02.

Salt Lake City: Dr. Ken Larsen (801) 533-8658 <kencan@xmission.com>
856
E. 100th St. South (#2), Salt Lake City, UT 84102 or Andy
Morrill (801)334-8122 <rambis4@attbi.com> http://www.thc2002.org
http://www.personalchoice.org A. Reed Morrill, 1663 Historic
25th Street,Ogden, Utah 84401 300 noisy marchers, no arrests.

San Diego: San Diego A.C.T. (Association for Cannabis
Therapeutics) c/o T.Villodas,901″F”street#413,San Diego,
Ca.92101 email: Ed zepplin <edzepp@yahoo.com> or Donna 619-302
3041 or 619-223-1050 (land line) 619-302-3041 (mobile)
http://www.cannabisfreedom.org Approximately 50-75 attendees.
NO POLICE! NO PROBLEMS!

San Francisco: Hemp Evolution/Clark Sullivan “freeman sullivan”
<feemansulllivan@lycos.com> or c.libertine@netzero.net or LAMPS
415-487-0561 4,000 participants in ’02, no arrests.
Santa Clara: “Lisa” <angelisa51@prodigy.net>

San Marcos: Joe Ptak: 512.754.0264 Email:
earthfirstswt@hotmail.com Postal: 213 Ramsay St.; #107, San
Marcos, TX; 78666

Santa Cruz: DdC <dendecannabist@yahoo.com> or Jason Brodsky
<theherbalist@newmarijuana.com> or Bryan Gilstein
<shelbyrose7@yahoo.com> (831-502-3865) Bryan Gilstein, UCSC, 600
Kresge Ct, Santa Cruz CA 95064 discussion list:
SCMJMarch@yahoo.com  400 participants, no arrests.

Sao Paulo: Victor maolvni@bol.com.br 30620225  rua tirica 345 Cabeca:
podiscreuza@zipmail.com.br : 35678903: rua japao 876
maolvni@bol.com.br About 600 people .. There was no use and no
possession of marijuana so the cops couldn¬īt do anything.

Seminole: semptest5@webtv.net
“http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/fl3touring/stpete.html”

Sioux City: clint boatman <clint815@yahoo.com>    5305 Stone Ave,
Sioux City, Ia 51106

Sioux Falls:  Bob Newland <newland@rapidcity.com> 877-687-5297,
605-255-4032 website: http://www.sodaknorml.org/

Sofia: Chris Pantchev Xpu100 <hri100@iname.com>

Soltau: Sven <vandreike@t-online.de>, 05191-975296
50 people, one police activity.

Springfield: Joe Setzer (417) 877-6832 <theosopher420@yahoo.com>137
Hackberry Lane,  Seymour, MO 65746

St. Louis: 314-962-0690 or St. Louis Area NORML , PO Box 220243,
St. Louis, MO 63122, Phone: 314-995-1395 Email:
<StL_norml@theheadoffice.com> http://www.mo-norml.org 600 marched to
the Arch for cannabis reform.

Stuart: “chad cooke” <chadcooke50@hotmail.com> ¬†chad cooke
561-213-7307 719-a northview drive,
jupiter,florida. 33458

Thunder Bay: Doug Thompson <docclone@norlink.net> 807-475-7436 75
participants, no cops, no media.

Tampa: Anthony154154@aol.com Anthony Lorenzo 1-888-210-0425 toll free
pager Over 100 participants in ’02.

Tel Aviv: Boaz Wachtel — wachtel@shani.net Tel:972-54-573679
http://www.ale-yarok.org.il PO Box 2983, Even Yehuda, 40500
Israel ¬†— 4,000 participants in ’02.

Tokyo: Takao Bakuya (Cannabist) info@cannabist.org +81-3-3706-6885
http://www.cannabist.org 800 participants in ’02.

Toronto: Larry Duprey (416)540-7829 fax(416)242-2635 or Toronto Area
Association / Marijuana Party of Canada, 132 Dundas St. East,
Toronto,On M5B 1E2 (416)367-3459 ¬†3-6,000 participants in ’02
<http://www.canadiancannabisawards.ca>www.canadiancannabisawards.ca
<http://www.cannabisclub.ca>www.cannabisclub.ca

Traverse City: Melody Karr <fiddlefoot420@hotmail.com>
(231)885-2993 PO Box 524 Mesick, MI 49668. or 10954 Birch Road
Mesick MI 49668. 70 marchers, hundreds of spectators in ’02.
http://www.geocities.com/legalizemichigan/traversecity.htm

Trondheim: <mmm@normal.no> normal.no/mmm Line Arstad, NORMAL,
Hjelmsgt 3, N0-0355 Oslo, Norway 200 participants in ’02.

Tucson: mary mackenzie <mmackenzie2@juno.com> (520)323-2947
http://www.hometown.aol.com/marcher420/myhomepage/pepe.html or 3400
east speedway, #118, tucson, arizona 85716 Over 200 participants in
’02.

Turku: Vihreet Pantterit http://www.vihreetpantterit.org
info@vihreetpantterit.org 300 participants in ’02. 10
counter-demonstrators.

Ukiah: Verge Belanger “v belanger” <contactverge@yahoo.com>
Tommy Gunn, 528 North State St. #1, Ukiah, Ca. 95482 300 participants
in ’02.

Upper Lake, Ca.: Linda & Eddy Lepp”linda senti”
<lisenti@home.com> 707-275-8879 Signed up 131 new patients in ’02.

Vancouver: David Malmo-Levine, <dagreenmachine@excite.com> BC
Marijuana Party Bookstore and Internet Broadcasting Center, 307
West Hastings Tel. 604 682-1172 http://www.cannabisculture.com 2,000
marchers in ’02.

Vermilion: Sonny Morris 967-6069 sonny44089@yahoo.com  309 devonshire
More than 100 people partied in the park, no problems in ’02.

Vienna: 5. Hanffeuer, Bushdoctor <martin@bushdoctor.at>
http://www.bushdoctor.at Phone: +43 (01) 524 04 40, Fax: +43
(01) 524 04 24, Kirchengasse 19, A-1070, Vienna, Austria”

Warszawa, mazowsze:  Adam Wojtasiewicz  aw@koliber.org +48503692715
ul. Mickiewicza 72/15 01-650 Warszawa Poland

Washington, D.C.:Toni Keane <taporter84@yahoo.com>
http://violate_wave.tripod.com/MMM.html

Wellington Ben Knight <Legalise@tradeshall.org.nz> NORML NZ , PO
Box 27-315, Wellington +64 25 377509 http://www.norml.org.nz

Wichita-Walton: Dave Baughman 620-837-4496 <Davyblues1@netscape.net>
http://www.kan-sativa.com 124 S. Walton Ave., Walton, Kansas
67151 Around 50 participants in ’02.

Winnepeg: Chris Buors, <chris_buors@yahoo.ca> mail to 430
Winterton ave, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R2K 1K4 500 rallied at the
Parliament Bldg in ’02.

Winston-Salem: Queen Selassie (336) 661-0684 4469 Indiana Ave,
Winston-Salem, N.C. 27105 25 people stood under a pavilion in the
rain.

Worcester: C.J. & Judi Bunn, 413-245-3675 #9 Maybrook Rd,
Holland, MA 01521 More than 100 people, no problems, in ’02.

Zurich: Swiss Hanf Koordination Sekretariat + 41-31-398-144
<infor@hanf-koordination.ch>  Barbecue-Party in the Culture Centre in
Seebach/Zurich
CHanf++ GmbH, Zweierstrasse 124, CH-8003 Z√ľrich

– —-
We are still taking submissions for our final design for next year’s
poster–and we are establishing a VIRTUAL POSTER GALLERY to give
every city who can print locally a choice.
– —-

_____________________________________________________________
If you want to be moved above this line and listed for next year,
just let us know.
If you want to help bring them up to critical mass, just contact
them.

***!!!MMM2002 Cities Not Yet Confirmed for Global Cannabis March
2003!!!***

Anchorage: Scot Dunnachie 907-278-4367 <freehempinak@gci.net>
2603 Spenard Rd, Anchorage, AK 99503 http://www.freehempinak.org

Ashland: “Amber Leiter” <amleiter@ashland-city.k12.oh.us>
419-289-8810 , Amber Leiter, 165 Ronald Ave. Apt. I, Ashland,
Ohio 419-207-8834

Augusta: Roger Leisner/Radio Free Maine.
<rleisner04330@yahoo.com> http://www.radiofreemaine.com

Bologna: mar. million march / association livello 57 ++39
051-271066<m4s@psy.unipe.it> Via Muggia #9, 40100 Bologna
http://www.radiocentrale.it or http://www.radiogap.net

Boulder: Fred Smith 303-449-2390 <smithmf@stripe.colorado.edu>
850 17th St., Boulder, CO 80302  ralph@snelrar.com 303-546-6125

Buenos Aires: daihatsu missminipimer@mefis.to www.mefis.to   or miss
olga summers olgasummers@mefis.to www. ligalais.com
Nos juntaremos el 4 de mayo, 16 hs., a fumar uno en el planetario
buenos aires.

Calgary: Ken Kirk e-mail: marijuanaparty.ofalberta@3web.net
780-430-8440

Carbondale: Liz Strebe 618-351-0397 202 E. College (Apt 1),
Carbondale, IL 62901

Charleston:  Amanda Kushner Amanda2bad@aol.com 304-746-0777   969
Jarrell Dr., Charleston, wv 25312 Rally Concert

Chesapeake: Barbra 373-9027  bkquamen@aol.com Chesapeake, Virginia

Dallas: Fletch 214-566-2460 <phletch41@hotmail.com> 6008 E.
Mockingbird Lane, Dallas, Tx. 75206 60 or so marchers in ’02.

Dauphin: Shroom menace217@hotmail.com Dauphin, Manitoba Smoke-in,
followed by walk to support legalization

Duisburg: Dirk &Co <cafe-zentral@gmx.de>

Dunedin: Duncan Eddy <duncaneddy@hotmail.com> NORML NZ, phone:
027 4719 139 200 tokers on the Octagon in ’02.

Eaton: Andy Fudge fudgeie@bolt.com 210 eaton lewisburg rd apt#61
Rally 12 noon — lots of kick ass specialties

Edmonton, Alberta: Ken Kirk e-mail:
marijuanaparty.ofalberta@3web.net 780-430-8440 or “Ross Z”
<ganja_23@hotmail.com>

Ellwangen: Sven Semmler <sven@ssemmler.de>

Fairbanks, Alaska: Frank Turney 907-452-3777 or Chuck Rollins
Jr. <chuck@mosquitonet.com>

Frankenthal: helmut holtzheimer <movemus@gmx.de>

Freiburg: <info@drogenpolitik.org>, http://www.drogenpolitik.org
Verein fuer Drogenpolitik e.V. Info stall from 11:00h-17:00h.
corner Kaiser-Joseph-Strasse – Schiffstrasse

Fresno: Glass Packers <glasspackers@yahoo.com> Eric Burns

Hamilton: Contact aksh1@waikato.ac.nz 50 participants, 4 questioned
and released without charges.

Homer, Alaska – contact Julie Cesarini, P.O. Box 812, Homer AK
99603, 907 235-6040.

Jacksonville: James Johnson  (904)245-2876  chefboyrdee69@aol.com
659 Apeberry Lane, Jacksonville, Florida

Johannesburg: Gordon Maene <Gordon@pyramid.co.za> work: (
011)805 6763 cell phone: 082 552 6393

Juneau: contact  Brad Parfitt latebrad@hotmail.com

Kelowna, B.C.: Teresa Taylor, CCC <luna@sunshinecable.com>
taylor1.virtualave.net (250) 442-2741 or (250) 442-5166 Fax
(250) 442-5167 or Amanda/hempshop (250)770-8171

Kailua-Kona: Gretel Zapata of Free Mary Jane
<freemaryjanehawaii@hotmail.com> Tel# 808.328.9251 voice#
808.331.5418 81-1085c Capt. Cook RD Capt. Cook HI 96726 or PO
box 746 Honaunau HI

Krakow: Marek Warmuz (+48)501-468-018 “quepassa”
<quepassa@poczta.fm>

Ladysmith: Terry & Wendy, (250)-245-3595, <tandwp1@home.com>

Las Vegas: Ray Facundo <raybones80@yahoo.com>, 1750 Santa
Margarita, Apt 122, Las Vegas, NV 89146 (702)-222-3560

Leadville: Ken Cary (719-486-2215. 114 W 6th # 9, Leadville, CO
80461

Lille: FARId GHEHIOUECHE <gfarid@free.fr> Tel/fax : 01 44 93 93
57; Mobile: 06 14 81 56 79

Limburg: Batlle@t-online.de (Valentin Batlle) 11.05.2002, 08:00 AM to
04:00 PM Limburg City Europaplatz M.M.M-Event with Music (Söllner,
Joint Venture …) Valentin Batlle, Hanf Aktivist

Liverpool: Will Graham <willg@marijuana.com> tel (inc.
international code): 0044 151 727 1458

Luxemburg (LU) <info@act4cannabis.lu>, Tel: 00352 26 53 08 95,
http://www.act4cannabis.lu/ They are planning a press conference
and handing out leaflets. Mailing address:LIFE, 53, Val des
Aulnes, L-3811 Schifflange

Lyon: FARId GHEHIOUECHE <gfarid@free.fr> Tel/fax : 01 44 93 93
57; Mobile: 06 14 81 56 79   Location:   14h Croix Rousse Place

Marburg: Gr¬łne Hilfe Hessen, c/o Jo, Tel/Fax: 06631/801512
Location: Cafe Am Gr¬łn 70 guests attended.

Marseilles: FARId GHEHIOUECHE <gfarid@free.fr> Tel/fax : 01 44 93 93
57; Mobile: 06 14 81 56 79

Memphis: Lanie 731-855-7527

Montpellier at Le Bikini Location: 16h Comedie Place

Munich: mmm-muenchen@cannabislegal.de

Nantes: FARId GHEHIOUECHE <gfarid@free.fr> Tel/fax : 01 44 93 93
57; Mobile: 06 14 81 56 79

Napa: Bruce Trask 707-253-9295 1020 Soscol Ferry Rd, Napa, CA
94558

New Haven: Lucas Davenport <hardreboot@yahoo.com> 203-752-2462

Palm Springs: Lanny Swerdlow mappnow@hotmail.com or
<marijuanamarch@yahoo.com> pager: 760-836-8166; ph:
760-799-2055.

Recklinghausen: Jossi <janjos@gmx.de>

Regina: Daniel Johnson <amduscias@accesscom.ca>
normlsask.cjb.net/

Rennes at l’Ubu. Jean Charles PETITJEAN, BARACANNA (COCAR), 105,
rue St HńĆlier, 35000 Rennes. TńĆl : 33 (0)2 23 35 15 69 Fax : 33
(0)2 23 35 01 33 E-Mail : baracanna@multimania.com SIRET : 432
785 822 00029 APE : 913 E ouvert mercredi de 14h30 √Ĺ 19h30
jeudi, vendredi et samedi de 10h √Ĺ 20h They will offer hemp
seeds to people at a rally in front of the mayor’s house.

San Juan: Christian Fernandez <c_fernh@hotmail.com> Box 839
Gurabo, PR 00778

San Luis Obispo: “Rusty Stuart” <nzane@mail.com> 1722 Nacimiento
Lake Dr, Paso Robles, CA 93446 805-237-7303 or 805-237-7306 And
Jo-D: 805.937.0034

Saskatoon: Jeremiah Whipp (306)230-0951 — 1800 Main St (Apt
42), Saskatoon, Sask. S7H4B3.

Stafford: Simon  wrxmanuk@yahoo.com +447816485762  Concert @ stafford
town square

Stockton: mikaela/free the weed  912-884-6144
veganarchy16@hotmail.com veganarchy16@yahoo.com
http://www.hipforums.com 322 lake dr, stockton, california

Stuttgart: <info@drogenpolitik.org>,
http://www.drogenpolitik.org Verein fuer Drogenpolitik e.V. Info
stall from 11:00h-17:00h. corner K¬Ėnigstrasse / B¬łchsenstrasse

Tallahassee: (850)321-8311 ask for Matt <fsunorml@hotmail.com>
Ricky Bradford FSU NORML c/o Oglesby, Union Student Activities
Office, FL 32306

Taos: Danielle Romero (505)770-5260 or Joanne Foreman
<jofo@laplaza.org> 505-751-1102

Vega Alta: jose a hernandez <josefaruk1@juno.com> location Park
Recreativo. Que Viva La Musica Coqui Coqui.

Vilnius: “Andrius Brazas” <brazhas@marijuananews.com>
http://www.hardcore 370 98 84714

Wolfenbuttel: <solid-wf@gmx.de> Info booth by [‘solid] popular.

Yellow Springs: Devon Ronaldson <soulrebel@ordep.com> 937 769
1764 c/o Student mailr oom, 795 livermore st., yellow springs OH
45387

Zagreb: “Sergio Stifanic” <fine_time909@hotmail.com> GALOVICEVA
10, 10000 ZAGREB Phone: ++385 1 2330667

_ _ ______

From: eco man <tents444@yahoo.com>
Subject: Please subscribe to new MMM email list. Public archive still
open.

Please subscribe to new MMM email list. Public archive still open.

The public MMM email list at Yahoo Groups now requires people to
subscribe
in order to post messages to the list and the public archive. For a
few
weeks I set it up so that non-members could also send in email
messages to
the list. That was to help people send in MMM rally reports. It
worked.
The archive also got some spam too. That was deleted. But people
should
keep sending in MMM-related stuff. Just subscribe first.

The MMM message archive itself is still public and accessible to
anybody:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction

*MMM (Million Marijuana March) and Global Cannabis Action. Marches
and
rallies, the first Saturday in May of each year. Worldwide (since
1999).
May 3 2003, May 4 2002. May 5, 2001. May 6, 2000. May 1, 1999. Over
200
cities so far … and counting!!! Other multi-city cannabis and drug
reform events are covered, too. Email list public archive for event
info,
ideas, MMM 2002 rally reports, photo attachments, links, HTML web
pages,
etc.. Also, Dana Beal’s most recent messages include the latest,
continually-revised, compilation of MMM 2003 cities, contacts, and
rally
info. After subscribing to this Yahoo Group email list, please use
cannabisaction@yahoogroups.com  for sending in messages. On the
homepage
there are links to archived messages, and to web pages with even more
MMM
links, info, and rally report compilations online. Homepage:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction

MMM Global Cannabis Action. Million Marijuana March. Annual rallies
and
marches in over 200 cities. Worldwide since 1999. The first Saturday
in
May. Cannabis Liberation Day. LINKS, event navigators, alphabetical
city
contact lists, mailing lists and archives, flyers and posters, rally
report compilations, media coverage, MMM history, etc..

This page was last revised Wednesday, June 12, 2002 09:28 AM -0400.
This
page is at
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mmmlinks.htm  and
http://corporatism.tripod.com/mmmlinks.htm  and
http://members.fortunecity.com/multi19/mmmlinks.htm

MMM-Cannabis Event NAVIGATORS, city lists.

Please send in MMM city info and updates to Dana Beal
dana@cures-not-wars.org and also use the web form and contact links
at the
Event Navigator page here:
http://www.millionmarijuanamarch.org/navigator.php

MMM 2003 city lists. Freddie Freak’s frequently-updated list of
cities –
many of which are clickable. Freddie’s city list is not a contact
list,
nor does it have MMM 2002 rally participant numbers. For the
very-latest,
complete, MMM city and contact list for the upcoming MMM 2003,
combined
with last year’s MMM 2002 rally numbers for each city, you need to go
to
Dana Beal’s latest email messages in the MMM Cannabis Action email
list
and public archive.

http://home.c2i.net/freddiefreak/N/potnytt_2003/mmm2003int/mmm_2003.htm
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction

*MMM EVENT NAVIGATOR. Global Cannabis Action. Find a march, rally,
forum,
concert or other event anywhere in the world with the Million
Marijuana
March Event Navigator! This page lists the names of nearly all of the
MMM
cities worldwide on one page. In alphabetical order. With the state
and
country names also. Click any city in the alphabetical list to see
the
contact and rally info for that city. This is a great web page.
Alphabetical city list:
http://www.millionmarijuanamarch.org/navigator.php

*MMM 2002, Cannabis  Liberation Day, Million Marijuana March.
Clickable,
all-on-one-page,  alphabetical, 200+ city list is frozen in place
from
around May 4 2002.
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mmm2002.htm   and
http://corporatism.tripod.com/mmm2002.htm   and
http://members.fortunecity.com/multi19/mmm2002.htm

—————————————–

1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 MMM-Cannabis Rally REPORTS.

Please send in personal or published MMM rally reports to Dana Beal
dana@cures-not-wars.org  and media reports to CannabisNews.com at
submissions@cannabisnews.com where FoM may compile them at:
http://freedomtoexhale.com/million.htm

*2002 MMM. Freddie Freak (of Norway) has a compilation of links to
MMM
2002 rally reports worldwide. You can also click his homepage page
link
below, and then click the MMM 2002 link there:
http://freddiefreak.com

*2002 MMM. The schmoo.co.uk website has a rally report compilation:
http://www.schmoo.co.uk/world.htm

*2002 MMM rally reports. Also, Public Archive for MMM-related list
messages.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction

*2001 MMM. global cannabis connections. Rally reports worldwide.
http://www.schmoo.co.uk/cannabis/world.htm

*2001 MMM. Worldwide Wrap-up of the “2001 Space Odyssey.”
http://www.hightimes.com/News/2001_06/MMMWRAP.html

*2000 MMM. Alphabetical rally reports. March – May, 2000. MMM. A16.
J4J3.
Drug war protests in around 100 cities worldwide.
— May 6. MMM. Million Marijuana March, Cannabis 2000. 100 cities.
— April 15. A16 prison industrial complex rally. 600 arrests.
Washington
DC.
— March 2000. J4J3. Journey for Justice 3 in Florida. 3rd J4J
medical
cannabis wheelchair trek.
— Alphabetical (by city) link list of reports, photos, audio,
video for
the above rallies in the year 2000.
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/links.htm and
http://corporatism.tripod.com/links.htm

*1999 MMM. London and around the world. Rally reports.
http://www.schmoo.co.uk/cannabis/london.htm

*1999 MMM. Million Marijuana March. FoM (of CannabisNews.com)
compilation
of rally reports for cities worldwide.
http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/million.htm

————————————-

MMM-Cannabis and drug reform email LISTS and ARCHIVES.

*MMM (Million Marijuana March) and Global Cannabis Action. Marches
and
rallies, the first Saturday in May of each year. Worldwide (since
1999).
May 3 2003, May 4 2002. May 5, 2001. May 6, 2000. May 1, 1999. Over
200
cities so far … and counting!!! Other multi-city cannabis and drug
reform events are covered, too. Email list public archive for event
info,
ideas, MMM 2002 rally reports, photo attachments, links, HTML web
pages,
etc.. Also, Dana Beal’s most recent messages include the latest,
continually-revised, compilation of MMM 2003 cities, contacts, and
rally
info. After subscribing to this Yahoo Group email list, please use
cannabisaction@yahoogroups.com  for sending in messages. On the
homepage
there are links to archived messages, and to web pages with even more
MMM
links, info, and rally report compilations online. Homepage:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cannabisaction

*MMM-Cannabis organizing list. Million Marijuana March. Global
cannabis
rallies on the first Saturday of May. May 3 2003, May 4 2002. May 5,
2001.
May 6, 2000. May 1, 1999. Over 200 cities so far. The latest,
updated,
city and contact list is regularly sent here. Anybody can join this
Yahoo
Group for free. Any subscriber can post messages. Click below for
info,
and to sign up. The email names and email addresses of subscribers
are not
visible to anybody, except temporarily when a subscriber sends email
to
the list. There is no archive.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mayday

*Santa Cruz Billion Marijuana March email list and archive. “A local
forum
for Santa Cruz, San Jose, San Francisco, Marin, Watsonville, Carmel,
etc… to share ideas, plan, and enjoy life while preparing for this
year’s and more upcoming Billion Million Marijuana Marches here in
Santa
Cruz California.”
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCMJMarch/

*Email lists. Drug war, cannabis, drug reform, progressive news in
general. Egroups, Yahoo Groups, Usenet, newsgroups, mailing lists,
Listserv, Majordomo, etc.. Archives, too.
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/lists.htm  and
http://corporatism.tripod.com/lists.htm

—————————————

More MMM LINKS and RELATED INFO.

*For FLYERS and POSTERS  (by mail or download), info, MMM-Cannabis
history, reports, etc., go to Cures-not-Wars.org  and schmoo.co.uk
and
CannabisCoalition.org
http://www.cures-not-wars.org  and
http://www.schmoo.co.uk/cannabis  and
http://www.cannabiscoalition.org

Million Marijuana March. The .org and .com sites are completely
different.

http://MillionMarijuanaMarch.org  and
http://www.MillionMarijuanaMarch.org
http://MillionMarijuanaMarch.com  and
http://www.MillionMarijuanaMarch.com

*Old MMM 2002 city list used for distribution to others.
http://corporatism.tripod.com/mmm2002pr.htm  and
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mmm2002pr.htm   and
http://members.fortunecity.com/multi19/mmm2002pr.htm

You are here:

*MMM Global Cannabis Action. Million Marijuana March. Annual rallies
and
marches in over 200 cities. Worldwide since 1999. The first Saturday
in
May. Cannabis Liberation Day. LINKS, alphabetical city contact lists,
event navigators, mailing lists and archives, flyers and posters,
rally
report compilations, media coverage, MMM history, etc..
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/y/mmmlinks.htm   and
http://corporatism.tripod.com/mmmlinks.htm   and
http://members.fortunecity.com/multi19/mmmlinks.htm

—————————————–

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] getting iboga to seed
Date: September 21, 2002 at 9:53:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The following question was received via private email. Any response
appreciated.  The plants are not in the US.

Howard

<< I have six  Tabernanthe iboga plants from Zaire.  I want to know how
to get the plants to set seed. I have tried everything including
dissecting the flowers which seem to have enclosed pistils and
stamens suggesting an insect does the job. I really need to get these
into seed.  Do you know any good methods? >>

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 21, 2002 at 9:19:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Carla, not to call you a total airhead or anything
like that but the answers to most of that are online
and you can go find them by typing ibogaine into a
search engine. Or go to ibogaine.org or co.uk mostly,
don’t think the history is on .net

Howard Lotsof found that ibogaine has anti addictive
properties in the 60’s. I don’t think they were using
it in the gabon to stop doing heroin. “Is there even
heroin and crack over there?” There has to be right?
That part of the question I’m not finding a answer for
online.

.:vector:.

— Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi randy and thanks for answering my quesion! Well I
didn’t know so I asked. Since I keep asking
questions
and getting at least some answers. Does anyone in
the
Gabon do ibogaine for drug problems or does this
happen only in other countires? Is there even heroin
or methadone over there?

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Rock the Fuck Out John Gilmore!
Date: September 21, 2002 at 9:09:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, that’s nearly everyone. He missed Bush though.

“The defendants named in the suit are John Ashcroft,
U.S. attorney general; Robert Mueller, FBI director;
Norm Mineta, U.S. Department of Transportation
secretary; Jane F. Garvey, Federal Aviation
Administration chief; John W. Magaw, Transportation
Security Administration chief; Tom Ridge, Office of
Homeland Security chief; United Airlines; and
Southwest Airlines.

The lawsuit is Gilmore v. Ashcroft.”

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
That’s it, I’m suing EVERYBODY! ¬†<shaking fist at
sky>

Plus, also, I’m not done talking about that
open-relay mail server
incident quite yet.

Patrick

http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0210/gilmore.html

__________________________________________________
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From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Rock the Fuck Out John Gilmore!
Date: September 21, 2002 at 8:43:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

That’s it, I’m suing EVERYBODY! ¬†<shaking fist at sky>

Plus, also, I’m not done talking about that open-relay mail server
incident quite yet.

Patrick

http://www.lp.org/lpnews/0210/gilmore.html

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] “Instructions would be wrong anyway…”
Date: September 21, 2002 at 7:45:03 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Fri, 20 Sep 2002
Source: Birmingham News, The (AL)
Copyright: 2002 The Birmingham News
Contact: Epage@bhamnews.com
Website: http://www.al.com/birminghamnews/today/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/45
Author: Faye Dozier
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/oxycontin.htm (Oxycontin/Oxycodone)

OXYCONTIN GETS BUM RAP IN NEWS

Those who do not realize that The Birmingham News is not the New
England Journal of Medicine may have a very skewed view of OxyContin
and the patients who are saved from constant pain because of it.

I bristled when I read the misinformation in a recent article on the
way Oxycontin’s delivery system works. It’s not the delivery system
that makes the drug dangerous; it’s criminals who deliberately alter
it for illicit purposes that makes it dangerous. The timed-released
system is not in the outer coating; it is throughout the matrix of the
tablet. The correct information is available at every pharmacy, and
you’ve yet to get the technical information correct.

This frequent misinformation has caused many legitimate patients to
refuse the relief that OxyContin provides. However, you were able to
correctly show all the curious youths in Birmingham how to crush, melt
down and inject OxyContin for a possibly lethal high.

Please don’t send Saddam the instructions for nuclear weapons. Oh, go
ahead. It wouldn’t be right, anyway.

Faye Dozier

Hoover

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Jenk’s archive available again
Date: September 21, 2002 at 3:49:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

While reviewing links in the ibogaine dossier <www.ibogaine.org> or
<www.ibogaine.desk.nl> I found the link of Chris Jenk’s excellent collection
of early calyx ibogaine list messages to be down.  I just spoke to Chris and
the new url for this great collection is:

http://www.puzzlepiece.org/ibogaine/ibolist.html

Enjoy.

Howard

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 20, 2002 at 9:04:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi randy and thanks for answering my quesion! Well I
didn’t know so I asked. Since I keep asking questions
and getting at least some answers. Does anyone in the
Gabon do ibogaine for drug problems or does this
happen only in other countires? Is there even heroin
or methadone over there?

From what I’ve read mostly on ibogaine.org, it’s all
for spiritual reasons and none for the drug detox
parts.

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this, I don’t
mean to sound stupid but I’m becoming curious where
all of this started and how it’s used over there
instead of the way we use it. I mean to say, to get
off drugs! ūüôā

Thank you and have a good weekend.

Carla B

— Randywalker57@aol.com wrote:
<PRE>I don’t think ALL of them would be doing
Ibogaine! lol What a ceremony that
would be! Not laughing at your question, just
remembering my experiences with
the Ibogaine HCL. If they would be dosed as I was,
there would be trouble in
the jungle! lol I know they aren’t doing HCL, but it
has to be somewhat
similar, if lacking in intensity. Take care…Randy

__________________________________________________
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New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] German Official Compares Bush on Iraq to Hitler
Date: September 20, 2002 at 5:30:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, September 20, 2002; Page A19

BERLIN, Sept. 19 — Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder’s
justice minister said yesterday that President Bush’s
“method” of pressuring Iraq was similar to tactics
employed by Adolf Hitler because both sought to divert
attention from domestic problems, according to a
German newspaper.

The minister, Herta Daeubler-Gmelin, was also quoted
as saying that the United States “has a lousy legal
system” and that “Bush would be sitting in prison
today” if current U.S. laws against insider trading
had been on the books when he worked in the oil
industry in Texas.

The reported remarks, a new example of anti-U.S.
sentiment coursing through an election campaign
leading up to voting on Sunday, quickly brought calls
from the opposition for Daeubler-Gmelin’s resignation.
In Washington, Bush’s spokesman, Ari Fleischer, noted
the long, close relations between the United States
and Germany and said the Hitler remark was
“outrageous” and “inexplicable.”

In the run-up to the parliamentary election,
Schroeder’s firm stance opposing any military action
against Iraq has become the dominant campaign issue,
apparently helping the chancellor bounce back from a
weak showing in public opinion polls. U.S. officials
have expressed dismay to their German counterparts
about Schroeder’s position. According to the newspaper
Schwaebisches Tagblatt, Daeubler-Gmelin issued her
remarks while speaking to a group of trade unionists
in the western city of Tuebingen and did not know that
the newspaper had a reporter in the room.

Daeubler-Gmelin began by discounting oil as the reason
Bush would want to wage war, according to the
newspaper, a local publication. “The Americans have
enough oil,” it quoted her as saying. “Bush wants to
distract attention from his domestic problems. This is
a popular method. Hitler also used it.”
Even the hint of a comparison to Hitler is a
blistering insult in public discourse here, and there
was a murmuring of dissent in the audience, according
to news reports here. “I did not equate Bush with
Hitler,” Daeubler-Gmelin hastily added, according to
the newspaper.

The Justice Ministry in a news release today said that
the newspaper’s report was “absurd and far-fetched,”
and officials noted that it was written by a “local
reporter.” But the ministry did not deny that
Daeubler-Gmelin had mentioned both Bush and the Nazi
dictator in the same remarks and compared their
“method.”

“I would deeply regret that this matter would cast
even a shadow on my respect for the President of the
United States,” Daeubler-Gmelin said in a statement.
Daeubler-Gmelin has long been a critic of the death
penalty in the U.S. judicial system, echoing a view
widespread in Germany and the rest of Europe. Last
month she said Germany would not hand over documentary
evidence for the trial of Sept. 11 suspect Zacarias
Moussaoui if the evidence could help secure a capital
conviction; the matter has not been resolved.

The opposition immediately jumped on the quoted
remarks and demanded that Schroeder fire
Daeubler-Gmelin, a fellow Social Democrat.

By tonight, Schroeder had made no comment on
Daeubler-Gmelin’s remarks.

҆ 2002 The Washington Post Company

__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings
Date: September 20, 2002 at 5:31:13 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Police Arrest 100 in Raids On Internet Drug Rings

Authorities broke up four Internet drug-trafficking
rings operating in the United States and Canada,
making more than 100 arrests and seizing enough
chemicals for 25 million doses of the “date rape” drug
GHB and similar substances.

The two-day sweep in 84 cities is “a dose of harsh
reality for drug traffickers who seek to exploit the
vast markets and anonymity of cyberspace,” Attorney
General John D. Ashcroft said.

Federal, state and local police began the
investigation, called Operation Webslinger, two years
ago. It found Internet drug rings in St. Louis;
Detroit; San Diego; Mobile, Ala.; Sparta, Tenn.;
Buffalo, and Quebec City.

Relying on Web sites and personal e-mail accounts to
reach their customers, the dealers disguised what they
were selling by calling their products “Blue Raine”
ink jet printing supplies and “TonerCleen” solution,
investigators said.

— Compiled from reports by the Associated Press and
Reuters

҆ 2002 The Washington Post Company

__________________________________________________
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From: “Nick Sandberg” <nick.sandberg@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 20, 2002 at 8:57:55 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 11:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs

Hey, how come everyone ignored my question!

Are all of them doing ibogaine as part of a ceremony?
How does it work there. I thought it was only a few
people at a time being initiated?

The photos really are amazing ūüôā

Carla

It says under the photos –

Annual ceremony of the “Ayize Endendang” congregation to commemorate the
death of the congragation founder, Catherine Bendome-Ottoghe, who was
killed, as she predicted, by a novice of the chapels in April 4th 1987.
“Ayize Endendang” is one of the biggest Fang Bwiti orders, they claims
between 8 to 10,000 followers.

– initiation is only the beginning for a Bwiti member. After the high dose
used to “crack open the head,” usually taken as a teenager or slightly
earlier, the Bwiti groupee will take lower doses during group rituals on a
regular, maybe monthly, basis. You drink iboga, you stay up all night, and
you dance a lot. I imagine it clears a lot of stuff out.

Nick

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Pot Bust Higher Priority than Relapse Prevention
Date: September 20, 2002 at 12:19:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Sun, 15 Sep 2002
Source: Daily Herald (IL)
Copyright: 2002 The Daily Herald Company
Contact: fencepost@dailyherald.com
Website: http://www.dailyherald.com/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/107
Author: Dave Orrick, Daily Herald Legal Affairs Writer

HOTEL DRUG SWEEP SURPRISES DRUG TREATMENT EXPERTS

Evelyn Boyd-Young, a registered nurse who heads a substance abuse program
in a Greenwich, Conn., hospital, is used to dealing with drug issues.
But she said she’d never been suspected of potentially dealing drugs –
until Friday night, when she said a loud knock on her hotel room door awoke
her.

It wasn’t room service. It was two uniformed cops and a big dog.

Boyd-Young, who is staying in an Elk Grove Village hotel with some 60 of
her colleagues for a drug treatment training convention, found herself on
the wrong end of an increasingly common practice in suburban hotels:
unannounced police drug sweeps.

Boyd-Young and others at the conference say the practice is ugly and
intrusive.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1743.a12.html
——————————

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 10:06:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill and Brett,
Thanks for the information. Questions not asked, will
not be answered. Thanks again…Randy

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 9:20:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill, do you know anything about Ibo losing its potency?  Could
that be the case? It was months later, when I did the other sessions.

Carl (who made the indra batch) says that it is sensitive to
light. Also moisture and heat would be something to avoid for
any such substance. Assuming your HCl was kept in a dark, cool
dry place, I would be more inclined to think the difference in
effect for you was due to a natural limitation in the body’s
ability to deliver the same intense psychological effect repeatedly,
particularly at intervals of less than, say a few years. It has
even been speculated that there may be a limited amount that
one can consume with such effects in a lifetime, and Howard has
reported that by the time he was testing batches for use on other
people, it had lost all of the psychological aspect for him.

Bill

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 9:18:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bill, do you know anything about Ibo
losing its potency?  Could

FWIW, The Indra product is over 15 years old and still
works just fine. Ibogaine is somewhat light sensitive,
I think HCL is a bit more stable than a base but it
should keep pretty well for a very long time if kept
dark, dry and cool in a sealed container – as in many
years.

that be the case? It was months later, when I did
the other sessions.  Thanks

I missed a piece of the thread but ibogaine can effect
someone differently strength-wise (and just about any
other way) each time.

Brett

for the info! ¬†Take care…Randy

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From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 8:56:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes, they did the appropriate recommended dosage. I did the 24mg/kg., but due
to an erroneous scale, or should I say, the watcher did not use the scale
properly, the actual dosage was probably around the 30 of 35mg per kg. I must
say, that I have to agree totally with you about the different results with
each use. The first dosing, was to interrupt a terrible heroin habit. The
doses that followed, were to keep the demons at bay and to curb the cravings.
They were still 20 mg. per kg., not light doses. They were nothing like that
first experience. I was still able to benefit from the others. I must say,
that I took Ibogaine very lightly initially, but now have the utmost respect
for it. It is a serious drug to be taken seriously.
Bill, do you know anything about Ibo losing its potency?  Could
that be the case? It was months later, when I did the other sessions.  Thanks
for the info! ¬†Take care…Randy

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 8:31:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You may be right, Bill, but everyone I talked to that did the Indra extract,
which has the other alkaloids, said it was much smoother and not as intense.

Hard to compare, but did they take 5 times as many grams as you did?

Honestly, the HCL that I did was very, very intense. I really would not have
wanted anything any stronger. I had a total of 50hrs. Ibo time with the first
24hrs. really strong!

Wow! How many mg/kg?

twice after that first experience. I would like to try the Indra, just to see
what the differences are.

If you want to compare the full spectrum, you might also want to try
some direct rootbark extract, e.g. made according to the ‘express’
recipe with alcohol and acid (vodka/lime, wine..) with alcohol
evaporated off. Apparently the indra was extracted without water,
and the water-soluble substances add a different effect.. so you’d be
as close as it comes (with an extract) to eating the whole bark.

Another confounding factor is that reactions vary anyway.

Bill

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 8:23:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/02 6:34:53 PM, carlambarnes@yahoo.com writes:

<< Hey, how come everyone ignored my question!

Are all of them doing ibogaine as part of a ceremony?
How does it work there. I thought it was only a few
people at a time being initiated? >>

Carlo,

Most likely none of us here have the answer to your question.  My perception
is that the crowd of bwiti are members of the particular chapel and that most
of them have already been initiated,  I am uncertain if any initiations go on
during that ceremony to celebrate the death of the founder of the chapel or
not.

Howard

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 8:19:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<PRE>You may be right, Bill, but everyone I talked to that did the Indra extract,
which has the other alkaloids, said it was much smoother and not as intense.
Honestly, the HCL that I did was very, very intense. I really would not have
wanted anything any stronger. I had a total of 50hrs. Ibo time with the first
24hrs. really strong! Swore that I would never touch the stuff again. Did it
twice after that first experience. I would like to try the Indra, just to see
what the differences are. Take care…Randy

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 8:08:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I know they aren’t doing HCL, but it has to be somewhat
similar, if lacking in intensity.

The intensity is probably greater than HCl because of the
other alkaloids (which also last longer) and possibly non-
alkaloidal chemicals in the iboga plant. The ritual may
also make it more intense, and the absolute dosage may be
much more.

Bill

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 7:50:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<PRE>I don’t think ALL of them would be doing Ibogaine! lol What a ceremony that
would be! Not laughing at your question, just remembering my experiences with
the Ibogaine HCL. If they would be dosed as I was, there would be trouble in
the jungle! lol I know they aren’t doing HCL, but it has to be somewhat
similar, if lacking in intensity. Take care…Randy

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 6:34:28 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey, how come everyone ignored my question!

Are all of them doing ibogaine as part of a ceremony?
How does it work there. I thought it was only a few
people at a time being initiated?

The photos really are amazing ūüôā

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 9/19/02 4:38:37 PM,
AndriaE@aol.com writes:

<< Did U recently post the Bwiti phots, as I sure
didn’t receive any today or
yesterday, whenever? Please let me know
andria >>

Hi Andria,

The photographs are available at
http://www.ibogaine.org/gallery.html

The photographs under discussion are by Laurent
Sazy.

Take a look, they are really awesome.

Howard

__________________________________________________
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From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 4:56:55 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I would have to say that awesome is a good description!  Great photos!
Randy

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 4:48:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/02 4:38:37 PM, AndriaE@aol.com writes:

<< Did U recently post the Bwiti phots, as I sure didn’t receive any today or
yesterday, whenever? Please let me know
andria >>

Hi Andria,

The photographs are available at http://www.ibogaine.org/gallery.html

The photographs under discussion are by Laurent Sazy.

Take a look, they are really awesome.

Howard

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 4:37:50 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Hpward

Did U recently post the Bwiti phots, as I sure didn’t receive any today or yesterday, whenever? Please let me know

andria

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 4:30:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<<Can you provide some more information on the Bwiti CD?>>

It’s Smithsonian, not Lib of Congress:

Music from an Equatorial Microcosm;
Fang Bwiti music from Gabon Republic, Africa, with Mbiri selections.
Ethnic Folkways Library FE 4214, 1973.
Phonodisc DMdl 1730

http://www.si.edu/folkways
http://www.folkways.si.edu/genre2.htm#africa   under Gabon
(overpriced at $20 as CD’s go – it is a hand-burned one)

Here’s James Fernandez’s homepage, by the way:

http://home.uchicago.edu/~jwf1/

And a web page listing the Bwiti CD and lots of Pygmy ones:

http://libweb.uoregon.edu/music/worldiscoaf.html

Bill

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 3:54:25 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/02 3:36:01 PM, ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU writes:

<< It’s nowhere near comprehensive, but the notes that come
with the Bwiti CD from Library of Congress are quite
interesting. They are by Jaime Fernandez.

Bill,

Can you provide some more information on the Bwiti CD?  Possibly, the url for
the web page at the library of congress concerning the bwiti cd?  Thanks.

Howard

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 3:35:39 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<< Still awaiting someone to write a comprehensive
guide to the Bwiti..>>

It’s nowhere near comprehensive, but the notes that come
with the Bwiti CD from Library of Congress are quite
interesting. They are by Jaime Fernandez.

Bill

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 2:08:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/19/02 12:11:43 PM, sandberg@mail06.onetel.net.uk writes:

<< Still awaiting someone to write a comprehensive
guide to the Bwiti in English or French. I know most of the
usual stuff that’s cited but there’s still a lot that’s not
clear. >>

Me too.  I keep asking but, no response.

Howard

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 1:26:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is really nice. I’ve never seen photos where
there are so many people, only the small groups inside
houses or standing in front of them.

What is it that they are doing here though? The
captions say they are ceremonies but do all of these
people take ibogaine all at once?

How does that work in Africa, I’ve read online I think
Nick Sandburg’s story about how he took it and now
seeing the photos I’m curious. how big are the bwiti
ceremonies and initiations, how many of them are there
actually altogether in the ibogaine religion?

Thank you

Carla B

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
Laurent Sazy, a photojournalist with an interest in
ethnobotanical substances
has contributed a number of images of modern Bwiti
rites in which Tabernanthe
iboga (ibogaine) is used in Gabon to the Ibogaine
Dossier’s Art Gallery.

The exhibit can be found at
http://www.ibogaine.org/gallery.html

or its sister page

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/gallery.html

Howard Lotsof

__________________________________________________
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From: <sandberg@mail06.onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 11:01:34 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Many thanks, Howard, for posting these excellent photos.
They’re a lot better than the usual stuff that comes back to
the West. Still awaiting someone to write a comprehensive
guide to the Bwiti in English or French. I know most of the
usual stuff that’s cited but there’s still a lot that’s not
clear.

Nick

From: <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: [ibogaine] ” Users place ”
Date: September 19, 2002 at 11:13:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Today at a demonstration at the center of Amstrdam ,

Addicts demand users places in the city , where they will be not pushed by
police or other groeps ,
they said that it will work both ways , if they get  protection and
recognision they will not need to
be a problem where the city need’s Camera’s all over the place and more
police and more jails ,
Do the pople of Amsterdam want their taxes spend on Camera’s or would they
give a place to stay for addicts ,
they talk about 600 people , Humanitarian solution is the only way the
addicts said , and they know .
Sara

From: <sara119@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 19, 2002 at 1:52:23 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very thoughtful response! Addicts being compared to cell phones!

Your comparison, not mine. I compared treatments to cell phones –
hopefully they will get cheaper.

….
Cynical? I like to believe that I am just being real.

Enjoy..

Bill
They will get cheaper , when Mash will give the sign ,

She is the one who  everybody else is waiting for ,

when she deside to tell the Academic world that ibogaine   under clinical
setting is safe ,and better then Naltroxon , thenthe Dutch ,English ,Germans … will provid this treatment to
addicts in those countries where it is legal , they are waiting ,
and unil then all those who still suffer , will be waiting for her ,
but then she wouldn’t ask 12,000, because ¬†the other Doctors will get a
premission to do the same treatment , Big Ego trip ,

in England only from one clinic who give the Naltroxon treatment
25 people have died with in one year ,
just because it doesn’t kill the cravings ,
and Mash knows that , but She is waiting to have the world litrature on
ibogaine on her name , and until she has published some more ,nobody else in any country where it is legal will get grands to
do any research on Ibogaine ,

so you can love her for helping you,some people , and you can hate her
for holding a treatment form  other people who are still suffering ,

the choice is yours .

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 18, 2002 at 6:53:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Kindler, gentler detox is exactly the opposite reception last time I went to rehab. The morning after I arrived, the doctor called me into his office. ¬†He wanted me to start on methadone and told me I had no chance of staying of dope. ¬†I told him I had friends in the program who had been clean for years. ¬†He told me they were far from the norm and “statistically insignificant.

When I turned him down, he handed me a tablet of naltrexone. I don’t know if anybody has ever taken that stuff while they have a habit but it throws you instantly into hardcore withdrawal. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. I aked him if he had received his training from nazi torture manuals. When I objected, he told me I had to leave eventhough I had insurance for up to 30 days.

It was only after I had packed my bag that he said I could stay but I had to take the naltrexone on the third day. By then I was in full blown withdraw so I didn’t give a dam. ¬†I wish I had Ibo. It sucked.

Steve

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 16:51:54 -0400

Even if Ibogaine were made available to every junkie in the world for free, lots of them would get strung out again. Some people are not capable of dealing with life without a little something extra. It could be for environmental reasons, something that happened to them somewhere in their lives. ¬†It could be genetic. It could be both. What ever the reason, it seems that we can’t enjoy life the way “normal” people do without something extra. Frankly, I don’t see a problem with that. Some people need anti-depressants. Some people need blood clotting agents. Some people get fat after eating the same amount of food some thin people eat.

The problem is the social stigma attached to drug use.  People that have a problem titrating the dose of their favorite drug or use the drug of their choice in inappropriate places stand out from other people. Society has a problem with people that are different whether it is being fucked up or fat.

I have never seen anybody who needs drugs to function ever get clean unless they dedicate every hour of their waking lives working to stay clean. The same thing goes for people with a genetic predisposition to being fat.

Although I have never done a detox dose of Ibogaine, it seems like a tool, a unique tool, but nothing more.

Steve

But if the purpose of the current war on drugs is to cut down (never being able to eliminate) the hard drugs phenomena, just detoxing the people ibo does work on would achieve better statistical results that the current “anti-terrorist” model of swat-team enforcement. Ibogaine sends the message that there is a better way, that the medical alternatives do not simply consist of methadone and UROD. When enough people hear that message, things will change.

Dana/cnw

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences
Date: September 18, 2002 at 6:31:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks allison i’m back to work damm i still do not fell “right” they say when you kick¬† methadone it takes 6-12¬† months………play you pay…..and did i play and pay…..karina

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 3:55:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Very thoughtful response! Addicts being compared to cell phones!

Your comparison, not mine. I compared treatments to cell phones –
hopefully they will get cheaper.

….
Cynical? I like to believe that I am just being real.

Enjoy..

Bill

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 3:39:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO ūüėČ

I was just having that thought, what is all this shit
that keeps going here? And reminding myself why I
really love the main group of people on this list.

Except I don’t know how to get the archives and my
mail on yahoo has blown up so many times I’ve lost
most of the messages.

Vector you keep talking about the interface, I asked
you in private email, I asked you on list, how do I
load the Mindvox interface please?

I’ve also started to remove all the extra qouted text
in my messages. This is the right time for someone to
say something nice so I keep doing that. larry? ūüôā

Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

Patrick will you have this list up on the Mindvox
interface? And will it sort into the templates that
are there now? You need to do that. Not like Curtis
always says you must do -something unrelated to
anything else- but I’ve started reading the list
archives here and right about now there is all this
junk that started with the jeff egomaniac, but there
are nearly 4,000 messages here and a lot of the
material is totally excellent long conversations
about
information that is related to addiction, the purple
stuff ūüėČ and even ibogaine too!

Or add a FAQ like Preston has for Drug War on how to
find the archives. They’re phat.

.:vector:.

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 3:16:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick will you have this list up on the Mindvox
interface? And will it sort into the templates that
are there now? You need to do that. Not like Curtis
always says you must do -something unrelated to
anything else- but I’ve started reading the list
archives here and right about now there is all this
junk that started with the jeff egomaniac, but there
are nearly 4,000 messages here and a lot of the
material is totally excellent long conversations about
information that is related to addiction, the purple
stuff ūüėČ and even ibogaine too!

Or add a FAQ like Preston has for Drug War on how to
find the archives. They’re phat.

.:vector:.

— Randywalker57@aol.com wrote:
<PRE>Very thoughtful response! Addicts being
compared to cell phones! What a
wonderful analogy. Sounds like something from the
Bush administration.
Nothing wrong with capitalism, Bill, except when it
comes to one of your
family dying from HIV or addiction. Then money
becomes the only issue about
who lives and who dies. If you really believe that
the studies done in St.
Kitts is going to change things for the addicts in
the United States, then
you must have your head buried in the sand
somewhere. Doctors and Drug
companies will lobby against it. Do you know how
many Methadone clinics there
are in the U.S.? Buprenorphine is a drug that is a
very good detox, but
nothing is happening with it, and it is a schedule 4
or 5 drug! The chance
that our government will okay the use of a schedule
1 hallucinogenic? I can’t
really see it happening. Cynical? I like to believe
that I am just being
real. Future of Ibogaine? I truly believe that it is
in OUR hands. Like it or
not. I am not trying to create controversy. It is
just frustrating seeing
people die all around me. Take care of
yourselves…Randy Walker

__________________________________________________
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] addiction treatment
Date: September 18, 2002 at 3:10:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thinking about this I’ve never been a drug addict or
used ibogaine to stop that, so I don’t know what I’m
talking about nearly as much as a lot of you on this
list.

When I used to see the Healing Visions people who
showed up for a couple of messages, vent, then leave I
thought that they’re relapsing and rich and it’s their
problem.

But if I was in a situation where I was trying to get
off drugs and I had people like that around me, you
know. I’m thinking I’d be acting a lot like the way
they do.

.:vector:.

— Curtis ¬†Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
wrote:

I have got to say this is a trip.

So far in the time I’ve been reading this list the
only Healing
Visions people who have ever posted here are mad as
hell about
something and then leave. Now this Jeff guy who is
some kind of
doctor there comes on like egomania on parade and
he’s supposed to
be helping people.

Patrick are you the only good thing that has ever
come out of
there? Because I don’t listen to all the negative
things people
have to say, but when they start to speak out for
themselves and
what they act like is exactly the worst of what
everyone has ever
said about them. Bro I have got to wonder.

How do you survive all that every day and not go
crazy? Oh yeah,
you are crazy. Now I understand ūüėČ

The only thing I don’t understand is how they let
you do Mindvox
without locking you up in a basement somewhere and
beating you.
That takes guts or insanity. Right on bro, right on.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :
Patrick I wanted to say that I’m watching all this
go
by and I’m a little stunned. I know you have this
badass attitude and I’m sure your life made you how
you are in different ways and I don’t mean that as
a
dis at all because you’re an incredible person.
You’re
also a crazy person and you are really anti 12 step
and addiction treatment.

What I wanted to say is, is this Jeff person
someone
who tried to treat you?

All of it suddenly makes a lot of sense ūüôā

Healing Visions needs to hire Rick V ūüôā

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Jon Freedlander <jfreed1@umbc.edu>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 2:34:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Patrick K. Kroupa wrote:

On [Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 04:23:37AM -0700], [brendan22@hushmail.com] wrote:

| As for Patrick, a complete genius. Don’t all brilliant people become
| junkie losers?

Many seem to.  Shit happens.

| Patrick’s great contribution to the world is how to beat drug addiction
| through being insane.

Hey, it works if you work it, so keep working it, ‘cuz you’re speshul!

| How many felonies Patrick?

Ok, I’m not directing this at anyone in particular, but the conversation
on this list has become disturbingly juvenile as of late. I think everyone
has made their position on the matter clear enough, so can we consider it
closed and move on?

We’re supposed to be helping each other here…if anyone really feels the
need to continue this flame war, please take it off list.

_______________________________________________________________________________
Jon Freedlander                                userpages.umbc.edu/~jfreed1
– ¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†¬†–
——————————————————————————-
“When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases.”
–Robert A. Wilson

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Exhibit of Bwiti photographs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 1:29:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Laurent Sazy, a photojournalist with an interest in ethnobotanical substances
has contributed a number of images of modern Bwiti rites in which Tabernanthe
iboga (ibogaine) is used in Gabon to the Ibogaine Dossier’s Art Gallery.

The exhibit can be found at http://www.ibogaine.org/gallery.html

or its sister page

http://www.ibogaine.desk.nl/gallery.html

Howard Lotsof

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] addiction treatment
Date: September 18, 2002 at 12:46:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 03:36:18AM -0000], [Curtis  Hersch] wrote:

| So far in the time I’ve been reading this list the only Healing
| Visions people who have ever posted here are mad as hell about
| something and then leave. Now this Jeff guy who is some kind of
| doctor there comes on like egomania on parade and he’s supposed to
| be helping people.

Jeff has a mysterious disease. ¬†He’s an addictionologist.

| Patrick are you the only good thing that has ever come out of
| there? Because I don’t listen to all the negative things people
| have to say, but when they start to speak out for themselves and
| what they act like is exactly the worst of what everyone has ever
| said about them. Bro I have got to wonder.
|
| How do you survive all that every day and not go crazy? Oh yeah,
| you are crazy. Now I understand ūüėČ
|
| The only thing I don’t understand is how they let you do Mindvox
| without locking you up in a basement somewhere and beating you.
| That takes guts or insanity. Right on bro, right on.

There is no “they,” Deborah knows what I do. ¬†There isn’t anything to
“let.” ¬†MindVox has been our thing since roughly the dawn of time.

| >What I wanted to say is, is this Jeff person someone
| >who tried to treat you?

No, Jeff is a relatively recent addition.  He was not around when I got
unsprung.  He wrote me a script for naltrexone once, a long time ago, in a
universe far far away.

| >All of it suddenly makes a lot of sense ūüôā
| >
| >Healing Visions needs to hire Rick V ūüôā

I think a lot of places could use Rick.

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 12:35:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Wed, Sep 18, 2002 at 04:23:37AM -0700], [brendan22@hushmail.com] wrote:

| As for Patrick, a complete genius. Don’t all brilliant people become
| junkie losers?

Many seem to.  Shit happens.

| Patrick’s great contribution to the world is how to beat drug addiction
| through being insane.

Hey, it works if you work it, so keep working it, ‘cuz you’re speshul!

| How many felonies Patrick?

Not that it has much of anything to do with any of this crap, but I have
no felony convictions. ¬†I’m so pure my halo radiates.

| Greedy moron Jeff and insane sociopath Patrick.

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change yo.

| Let the Healing Visions begin!

Fer shoor mahn, they’re all spiritual n’ shit.

| Here let me help fill in missing pieces of your media kit. Would not
| want them to be lost as they are on Mindvox.

All of the below is very interesting. ¬†It’s also a buncha crap that people
have printed and reprinted in pretty much that verbatim splat for a while.

Mostly what I’m not seeing is *my* name on any of those indictments.
<shrug>.

God bless,

Patrick

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 8:27:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<PRE>Very thoughtful response! Addicts being compared to cell phones! What a
wonderful analogy. Sounds like something from the Bush administration.
Nothing wrong with capitalism, Bill, except when it comes to one of your
family dying from HIV or addiction. Then money becomes the only issue about
who lives and who dies. If you really believe that the studies done in St.
Kitts is going to change things for the addicts in the United States, then
you must have your head buried in the sand somewhere. Doctors and Drug
companies will lobby against it. Do you know how many Methadone clinics there
are in the U.S.? Buprenorphine is a drug that is a very good detox, but
nothing is happening with it, and it is a schedule 4 or 5 drug! The chance
that our government will okay the use of a schedule 1 hallucinogenic? I can’t
really see it happening. Cynical? I like to believe that I am just being
real. Future of Ibogaine? I truly believe that it is in OUR hands. Like it or
not. I am not trying to create controversy. It is just frustrating seeing
people die all around me. Take care of yourselves…Randy Walker

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 7:44:39 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria,
Didn’t mean to come off as cynical. Certainly am not cynical
about Ibogaine. I think Ibogaine is a great tool. What disturbs me, is the
fact that most junkies will never have the opportunity to experience it’s
benefits. I lived the life. It is day to day with nothing in your pockets at
the end of the day. 10 thousand dollars? It may as well be 1 million. When I
hear someone who sounds like a cheerleader, rah rahing about how great HV is,
well, I get a little disturbed. Healing Visions is probably a wonderful
place. I talked to Dr. Mash several yrs ago myself, and it sounds like a
utopian detox. Did I want to go? Sure.  Could I afford the ticket of
admission? Absolutely not! It took me a year later, but I found a cheaper
way. The people that guided me, were very resourceful and kind. I wish Dr.
Mash all the success in the world. I really do. But, until we find a way to
make this an affordable detox, I will hold on to a little cynicism. I will
try to direct it more in the direction of the government, the bottleneck of
progress in the treatment of addicts. By the way, I will try to hold on to
your “dirty, clean” philosophy. Take care…Randy

From: brendan22@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 7:23:37 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bingo

Look up this egotistic asshole on yahoo, I’m sure he’s he makes a lot of money for his great humanitarian efforts to help. How he talks alone makes it obvious.

Give me money.

www.drkamlet.yourmd.com

And on erowid, another offer to give him more money.

http://www.erowid.org/general/guestbook/guestbook4.shtml

Need detox in south florida area? The pain can stop if you want the help. Addicts and others with substance abuse problems, needing expert testimony in substance abuse cases can reach me at kamletmd@aol.com Addicts should get treatment and not jail!!!! Cures Not Wars
Would like to see more on treatment physician professionals available to help the sick and suffering addicts.
jeffrey kamlet md
– Saturday, October 10, 1998 at 15:32:17 (PDT)

As for Patrick, a complete genius. Don’t all brilliant people become junkie losers? Mindvox has a beautiful giant media kit for all world to see how many books write about him and how smart he is. What’s much much much more interesting is following some of the links and seeing what is never put there and made glamorus and exciting.

Best part of whole media is Forbes article and to quote ‘the Playground Bullies have Learned to type’

Patrick’s great contribution to the world is how to beat drug addiction through being insane. The so great Mindvox. Hehehehehe, why are you all so broke then when even the stupid made millions and kept it. Guess doesn’t matter when grown men can keep living off rich parents.

At least he smart enough not to keep dragging Deborah Mash into the mud. That is about all.

How many felonies Patrick?

Greedy moron Jeff and insane sociopath Patrick. Let the Healing Visions begin!

Here let me help fill in missing pieces of your media kit. Would not want them to be lost as they are on Mindvox.

http://www.cybercrime.gov/cccases.html

Computer Crime – Arrests and Convictions

NOTE: A large number of US DoJ cases have been recently prosecuted
under 18 USC \2471030 (the computer crime statute.)  Information on
many, many of these cases can be found at

Legion of Doom (LOD) (members charged: Franklin Darden a.k.a The Leftist,
Adam Grant a.k.a The Urvile and Necron 99, Robert Riggs a.k.a The
Prophet)

Arrested:                          July 21, 1989
Charged:                          1989
Convicted:                          1990
Crime:
Hacking into Bell South’s Telephone (including 911) Networks – possessing
proprietary BellSouth software and information, unauthorized intrusion,
illegal possession of phone credit card numbers with intent to defraud, and
conspiracy. ¬†From the Government’s Sentencing Memorandum: “BellSouth
spend approximately $1.5 million in identifying the intruders into their
system and has since then spent roughly $3 million more to further secure
their network.” ¬†Sentences:

Frank Darden, 24: 14 months; Adam Grant, 22: 14 months ;
Robert Riggs, 22: 21 months
Collectively ordered to pay $233,000.00 in restitution.
More:

http://www.textfiles.com/news/leftist.txt
http://www.textfiles.com/magazines/CUD/cud0216.txt
http://www.eff.org/pub/Legal/Cases/SJG/Case_Docket_B/

Indictment against Legion of Doom (LOD) using RICO.

5. At all times relevant herein, the Legion of Doom (LOD) was a closely
knit group of computer hackers involved in:

a. Disrupting telecommunications by entering
computerized telephone switches and changing the
routing on the circuits of the computerized
switches.

b. Stealing proprietary computer source code and
information from companies and individuals that
owned the code and information.

c. Stealing and modifying credit information on
individuals maintained in credit information on
individuals maintained in credit bureau computers.

d. Fraudulently obtaining money and property from
companies by altering the computerized information
used by the companies.

e. Disseminating information with respect to their
methods of attacking computers to other computer
hackers in an effort to avoid becoming the focus of law
enforcement agencies and telecommunication security
experts.

– Indictment laid down by a US District Court

– Bruce Sterling in The Hacker Crackdown

Easy to find Patrick, why the blank space on Mindvox? ūüôā

Dear Randy
If Ibogaine helped U; how come U r cynical about it? Or is your
cynicism
singular to those who earn a lot of cash out of our addictions?
Curious
andria mordaunt

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Beating Patrick?
Date: September 18, 2002 at 4:00:29 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only thing I don’t understand is how they let you do Mindvox
without locking you up in a basement somewhere and beating you.
That takes guts or insanity. Right on bro, right on.

Peace out,
Curtis

Andria replies

Uhm, how would beating Patrick help the situation Curtis?
Speaking for myself, I’m almost certain that the regular violence that was inflicted on me as a child
, and later as an adult, was a part ofd what caused my sometimes-insanity!

Or was that just a figure of speech?

andria mordaunt

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 18, 2002 at 3:56:47 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Randy
If Ibogaine helped U; how come U r cynical about it? Or is your cynicism singular to those who earn a lot of cash out of our addictions?
Curious
andria mordaunt

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] The words we use to describe ourselves
Date: September 18, 2002 at 3:51:50 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Randy says:
If junkies could afford 10 thousand dollars to detox, what a wonderful world this would be. By the way, I was hard core junkie for 20 yrs. and am clean today. Ibogaine has been very helpful, but there is work to do after the sessions. Be good to
yourselves….What’s up, Marko?

Andria replies

Dear Randy

A Londoner gal here; did Iboga once; still non-addicted to anything apart from caffeine.
Anyways, I wanted to say something about the words wqe now use to describe ourselves.
It does seem that we have let the State describe us for too long; we are either ‘clean’ or using. I know this sounds trivial, but WORDS CAN BE POWERFUL and i think a little refelction on them is not a bad thing. when I shot dope, was I then dirty? Opposite of clean is dirty, i.e. state says if U yuse the drugs that we have arbitrarily illegalised, U r unclean.

Perhaps we could just be very literal about our circumstances, e,g, once I was addicted to heroin, and now I’m only addicted to caffeine. I note that I don’t sell-sex for caffeine as it is legal than G!

Anyways, just something I wanted us all to think about

My job in England btw, is to self-organise our peers, and so I’m always on our cases!

Glad to hear u have remained free of drugaddiction
Love & health
andria mordaunt

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] addiction treatment
Date: September 17, 2002 at 11:36:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have got to say this is a trip.

So far in the time I’ve been reading this list the only Healing Visions people who have ever posted here are mad as hell about something and then leave. Now this Jeff guy who is some kind of doctor there comes on like egomania on parade and he’s supposed to be helping people.

Patrick are you the only good thing that has ever come out of there? Because I don’t listen to all the negative things people have to say, but when they start to speak out for themselves and what they act like is exactly the worst of what everyone has ever said about them. Bro I have got to wonder.

How do you survive all that every day and not go crazy? Oh yeah, you are crazy. Now I understand ūüėČ

The only thing I don’t understand is how they let you do Mindvox without locking you up in a basement somewhere and beating you. That takes guts or insanity. Right on bro, right on.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 Carla Barnes wrote :
Patrick I wanted to say that I’m watching all this go
by and I’m a little stunned. I know you have this
badass attitude and I’m sure your life made you how
you are in different ways and I don’t mean that as a
dis at all because you’re an incredible person. You’re
also a crazy person and you are really anti 12 step
and addiction treatment.

What I wanted to say is, is this Jeff person someone
who tried to treat you?

All of it suddenly makes a lot of sense ūüôā

Healing Visions needs to hire Rick V ūüôā

Carla B

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] addiction treatment
Date: September 17, 2002 at 9:10:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick I wanted to say that I’m watching all this go
by and I’m a little stunned. I know you have this
badass attitude and I’m sure your life made you how
you are in different ways and I don’t mean that as a
dis at all because you’re an incredible person. You’re
also a crazy person and you are really anti 12 step
and addiction treatment.

What I wanted to say is, is this Jeff person someone
who tried to treat you?

All of it suddenly makes a lot of sense ūüôā

Healing Visions needs to hire Rick V ūüôā

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 8:12:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

She is paying for her research at the expense of suffering
addict’s families!

So what? The research will hopefully help future suffering addicts’
families. So those who can afford it are thereby helping everyone
in the long run, like the first cellular phone and tv buyers.

No one else seems likely to publish their results.

Bill Ross

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 7:30:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<PRE>She is paying for her research at the expense of suffering addict’s families!
We are addicts, we are not stupid! She has much to gain and even more to lose
with Ibogaine. You sound like you work for her. If it does become legal in
U.S., there will just be more 10 dollar detoxes like the one in St. Kitts.
Don’t want to be cynical, just real! ¬†Good luck fishing for suckers! ¬†Randy

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 7:24:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have never heard anyone that really knows their shit, say that Ibogaine was
anything more than a tool. It just happens to be a better tool. I have done 3
sessions myself and have been a watcher for 4 sessions. The person trying to
sell Healing Visions, should be ashamed of himself. If junkies could afford
10 thousand dollars to detox, what a wonderful world this would be. By the
way, I was hard core junkie for 20 yrs. and am clean today. Ibogaine has been
very helpful, but there is work to do after the sessions. Be good to
yourselves….What’s up, Marko?

Randy

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 7:12:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl

And now, for a brief interruption:

Everything that Jeff wedged into his message there, represents the
opinions, beliefs, and headspace of Jeff Kamlet. ¬†Jeff doesn’t represent
Healing Visions or Dr. Mash.

This is a recording.

Patrick

On [Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 04:00:46PM -0700], [Brett Calabrese] wrote:

| Posted by JDK on the ibogaine@ibogaine.org list,
| following is my reply.
|
| The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
| real Drs. and scientists who do their work at great
| finical loss to help those who still suffer. It is the
| only recognized legitimate study and that is the only
| way Ibo will ever get legalized. So get real  and
| grateful and put down your anger.
|
| We would gladly treat all who need help if we could.
| Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and
| pay for someone who can’t afford it. Do you not think
| Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing something
| else. Well, I know for sure she can.
|
|
| Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically and
| with respect.
|
| Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want to
| take it on a cot in a third world country with no
| physician on hand if something goes wrong.
|
| Be kind
| We all work together.
| Cures not wars.
| Increase the peace my brother.
|
|
| JDK
|
|
| — Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
| > Nice spin.
| >
| > — KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
| > > The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
| > > real Drs. and scientists
| > > who do their work at great finical loss to help
| > > those who still suffer.
| >
| > Does it actually cost them? How much per patient do
| > you lose?
| >
| > > It is
| > > the only recognized legitimate study and that is
| > the
| > > only way Ibo will ever
| > > get legalized.
| >
| > I certainly appreciate the value of the study in
| > humans but don’t think YOU have the keys to
| > ibogaines
| > legalization or not. I do believe if it is legalized
| > it will be part of a broader picture and not just
| > cause someone goes through the studies and proves it
| > –
| > they already know about ibogaine – THAT IS WHY IT IS
| > ILLEGAL
| >
| > > So get real  and grateful and put
| > > down your anger.
| >
| > Right, you tell em, BAD ADDICT.
| >
| > >
| > > We would gladly treat all who need help if we
| > could.
| > > Why don’t you put your
| > > money where your mouth is and pay for someone who
| > > can’t afford it.
| >
| > Good, Point in their direction and take the focus
| > off
| > yourself, yes, you are getting it. It is THEIR
| > fault… Sorry, you are so FULL OF SHIT. How about
| > YOU
| > put up the money for 1 of your patients and I am
| > sure
| > we can arrange it for 10 people to get treated –
| > elsewhere, or how about 4 others UNDER MEDICAL
| > SUPERVISION – real doctors, just like you, or maybe
| > supply ibogaine HCL for 100 people (yes, the math
| > works) and let them have the keys to their own
| > future…
| >
| > > Do you not
| > > think Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing
| > > something else. Well, I know for sure she can.
| >
| > How about SHE GOT LUCKY finding ibogaine?
| >
| > What Howard Lotsoff got?
| > >
| > >
| > > Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically
| > > and with respect.
| >
| > What about everybody else?
| >
| > >
| > > Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want
| > to
| >
| > Absolutely and one must follow protocol at all times
| > and some people should not take ibogaine or should
| > take it under strict(er) medical supervision. Did I
| > ever tell you about the 100,000 deaths that happen
| > every year from drug reactions – under medical care?
| > I
| > have been to doctors, I am not impressed.
| >
| > > take it on a cot in a
| > > third world country with no physician on hand if
| > > something goes wrong.
| >
| > Anyway, you are laying it on real deep, play the
| > fear
| > game, you are the only one with the ibogaine who
| > knows
| > how to do it right, I think NOT.
| >
| > I am not saying your treatment is bad, the problem
| > is
| > YOU are saying that about basically everyone elses
| > is.
| > It (HV) may be great treatment (for some) but it
| > isn’t
| > going to do someone like me a shred of good cause I
| > never would get there because of the money and I
| > didn’t need “treatment” other than the ibo and my
| > own
| > devices. You certainly have a right to do your
| > studies
| > and charge what you wish and I commend you for it
| > but
| > shove the sales pitch, “I am better than you are”
| > crap. How about it is different, the treatments and
| > the risks are different that is all, but no, you
| > need
| > to make it a contest, want an “exclusive”…
| >
| > But, if you like I will play your game and steer
| > anyone and everyone away from you greedy SOB’s (or
| > whatever), do a real BASH MASH thing the way you do
| > –
| > which I DO NOT DO. It is hard not to say anything
| > when
| > I hear from people that tell me you want them to
| > take
| > out loans, put it on their credit cards and sell
| > their
| > cars, if they are serious they should do this that
| > and
| > the other thing, “go to any lengths” to get the
| > money… and can’t get treatment from the one, the
| > only World Famous Dr. Mash at Healing Visions.
| >
| >
| > Brett
| >
| > __________________________________________________
| > Do you Yahoo!?
| > Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
| > http://news.yahoo.com
| > _______________________________________________
| > This list hosted in The Netherlands by
| > Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
| > _______________________________________________
| >
| > _______________________________________________
| > ibogaine mailing list
| > ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
| > https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine
|
|
| __________________________________________________
| Do you Yahoo!?
| Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
| http://news.yahoo.com
|

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 7:00:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Posted by JDK on the ibogaine@ibogaine.org list,
following is my reply.

The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
real Drs. and scientists who do their work at great
finical loss to help those who still suffer. It is the
only recognized legitimate study and that is the only
way Ibo will ever get legalized. So get real  and
grateful and put down your anger.

We would gladly treat all who need help if we could.
Why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and
pay for someone who can’t afford it. Do you not think
Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing something
else. Well, I know for sure she can.

Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically and
with respect.

Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want to
take it on a cot in a third world country with no
physician on hand if something goes wrong.

Be kind
We all work together.
Cures not wars.
Increase the peace my brother.

JDK

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
Nice spin.

— KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
real Drs. and scientists
who do their work at great finical loss to help
those who still suffer.

Does it actually cost them? How much per patient do
you lose?

It is
the only recognized legitimate study and that is
the
only way Ibo will ever
get legalized.

I certainly appreciate the value of the study in
humans but don’t think YOU have the keys to
ibogaines
legalization or not. I do believe if it is legalized
it will be part of a broader picture and not just
cause someone goes through the studies and proves it

they already know about ibogaine – THAT IS WHY IT IS
ILLEGAL

So get real  and grateful and put
down your anger.

Right, you tell em, BAD ADDICT.

We would gladly treat all who need help if we
could.
Why don’t you put your
money where your mouth is and pay for someone who
can’t afford it.

Good, Point in their direction and take the focus
off
yourself, yes, you are getting it. It is THEIR
fault… Sorry, you are so FULL OF SHIT. How about
YOU
put up the money for 1 of your patients and I am
sure
we can arrange it for 10 people to get treated –
elsewhere, or how about 4 others UNDER MEDICAL
SUPERVISION – real doctors, just like you, or maybe
supply ibogaine HCL for 100 people (yes, the math
works) and let them have the keys to their own
future…

Do you not
think Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing
something else. Well, I know for sure she can.

How about SHE GOT LUCKY finding ibogaine?

What Howard Lotsoff got?

Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically
and with respect.

What about everybody else?

Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want
to

Absolutely and one must follow protocol at all times
and some people should not take ibogaine or should
take it under strict(er) medical supervision. Did I
ever tell you about the 100,000 deaths that happen
every year from drug reactions – under medical care?
I
have been to doctors, I am not impressed.

take it on a cot in a
third world country with no physician on hand if
something goes wrong.

Anyway, you are laying it on real deep, play the
fear
game, you are the only one with the ibogaine who
knows
how to do it right, I think NOT.

I am not saying your treatment is bad, the problem
is
YOU are saying that about basically everyone elses
is.
It (HV) may be great treatment (for some) but it
isn’t
going to do someone like me a shred of good cause I
never would get there because of the money and I
didn’t need “treatment” other than the ibo and my
own
devices. You certainly have a right to do your
studies
and charge what you wish and I commend you for it
but
shove the sales pitch, “I am better than you are”
crap. How about it is different, the treatments and
the risks are different that is all, but no, you
need
to make it a contest, want an “exclusive”…

But, if you like I will play your game and steer
anyone and everyone away from you greedy SOB’s (or
whatever), do a real BASH MASH thing the way you do

which I DO NOT DO. It is hard not to say anything
when
I hear from people that tell me you want them to
take
out loans, put it on their credit cards and sell
their
cars, if they are serious they should do this that
and
the other thing, “go to any lengths” to get the
money… and can’t get treatment from the one, the
only World Famous Dr. Mash at Healing Visions.

Brett

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
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ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
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Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #168 – 2 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 6:21:27 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

You said that a lot better then me. I don’t know all
the issues but that’s what it sounded like to me too
ūüôā

.:vector:.

— Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com> wrote:
Nice spin.

— KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
real Drs. and scientists
who do their work at great finical loss to help
those who still suffer.

Does it actually cost them? How much per patient do
you lose?

It is
the only recognized legitimate study and that is
the
only way Ibo will ever
get legalized.

I certainly appreciate the value of the study in
humans but don’t think YOU have the keys to
ibogaines
legalization or not. I do believe if it is legalized
it will be part of a broader picture and not just
cause someone goes through the studies and proves it

they already know about ibogaine – THAT IS WHY IT IS
ILLEGAL

So get real  and grateful and put
down your anger.

Right, you tell em, BAD ADDICT.

We would gladly treat all who need help if we
could.
Why don’t you put your
money where your mouth is and pay for someone who
can’t afford it.

Good, Point in their direction and take the focus
off
yourself, yes, you are getting it. It is THEIR
fault… Sorry, you are so FULL OF SHIT. How about
YOU
put up the money for 1 of your patients and I am
sure
we can arrange it for 10 people to get treated –
elsewhere, or how about 4 others UNDER MEDICAL
SUPERVISION – real doctors, just like you, or maybe
supply ibogaine HCL for 100 people (yes, the math
works) and let them have the keys to their own
future…

Do you not
think Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing
something else. Well, I know for sure she can.

How about SHE GOT LUCKY finding ibogaine?

What Howard Lotsoff got?

Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically
and with respect.

What about everybody else?

Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want
to

Absolutely and one must follow protocol at all times
and some people should not take ibogaine or should
take it under strict(er) medical supervision. Did I
ever tell you about the 100,000 deaths that happen
every year from drug reactions – under medical care?
I
have been to doctors, I am not impressed.

take it on a cot in a
third world country with no physician on hand if
something goes wrong.

Anyway, you are laying it on real deep, play the
fear
game, you are the only one with the ibogaine who
knows
how to do it right, I think NOT.

I am not saying your treatment is bad, the problem
is
YOU are saying that about basically everyone elses
is.
It (HV) may be great treatment (for some) but it
isn’t
going to do someone like me a shred of good cause I
never would get there because of the money and I
didn’t need “treatment” other than the ibo and my
own
devices. You certainly have a right to do your
studies
and charge what you wish and I commend you for it
but
shove the sales pitch, “I am better than you are”
crap. How about it is different, the treatments and
the risks are different that is all, but no, you
need
to make it a contest, want an “exclusive”…

But, if you like I will play your game and steer
anyone and everyone away from you greedy SOB’s (or
whatever), do a real BASH MASH thing the way you do

which I DO NOT DO. It is hard not to say anything
when
I hear from people that tell me you want them to
take
out loans, put it on their credit cards and sell
their
cars, if they are serious they should do this that
and
the other thing, “go to any lengths” to get the
money… and can’t get treatment from the one, the
only World Famous Dr. Mash at Healing Visions.

Brett

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
This list hosted in The Netherlands by
Calyx Internet B.V. http://www.calyx.nl
_______________________________________________

_______________________________________________
ibogaine mailing list
ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
https://lists.calyx.nl/lists/listinfo/ibogaine

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [crashtestdummies] paint it black
Date: September 17, 2002 at 5:29:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector where is this? How do I sign into it?

Carla B

— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

It works great but I can’t login! ūüôĀ

I logged into the beta before but the account is
gone.

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 02:49:01PM -0400],
[Patrick
K. Kroupa] wrote:

| The current version is there, we’re just letting
it sit for a day or three
| — meaning 2 weeks realtime — and INTEGRATING
the
new inner-GUI; which
| utilizes the Psychedelic MindFuck skoOl of
navigation:
|
| http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/

By the way, hit that ^^^ and tell me if it works
for
you. ¬†If it doesn’t
please tell me the machine, OS (version) and
browser
(version/OS) you are
using.

It works fine under IE5/6, Netscrape 4.7, Omniweb.

Have not tried Opera,
and Mozilla is doing good, except on the Sun,
where
Mozilla is trailing
black lines onnit, and the new Mozilla alpha
release
is fucking up tables
everywhere.

Computers suck.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] wrong list
Date: September 17, 2002 at 5:00:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Sorry I put that on the wrong list.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [crashtestdummies] paint it black
Date: September 17, 2002 at 4:59:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It works great but I can’t login! ūüôĀ

I logged into the beta before but the account is gone.

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 02:49:01PM -0400], [Patrick
K. Kroupa] wrote:

| The current version is there, we’re just letting
it sit for a day or three
| — meaning 2 weeks realtime — and INTEGRATING the
new inner-GUI; which
| utilizes the Psychedelic MindFuck skoOl of
navigation:
|
| http://www.mindvox.com/~dross/mv03_html/

By the way, hit that ^^^ and tell me if it works for
you. ¬†If it doesn’t
please tell me the machine, OS (version) and browser
(version/OS) you are
using.

It works fine under IE5/6, Netscrape 4.7, Omniweb.
Have not tried Opera,
and Mozilla is doing good, except on the Sun, where
Mozilla is trailing
black lines onnit, and the new Mozilla alpha release
is fucking up tables
everywhere.

Computers suck.

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 4:53:53 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think that’s partly true and maybe partly wrong. I wish that I had ibogaine when I first detoxed and got clean. In other ways I think it’s so cool that I did it without ibo and then took some.

The part I don’t think is true is struggling with addiction and spending a hour of effort for every hour of doing drugs. I don’t have that after ibo.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 steve diamond wrote :
Even if Ibogaine were made available to every junkie in the world for free, lots of them would get strung out again. Some people are not capable of dealing with life without a little something extra. It could be for environmental reasons, something that happened to them somewhere in their lives. ¬†It could be genetic. It could be both. What ever the reason, it seems that we can’t enjoy life the way “normal” people do without something extra. Frankly, I don’t see a problem with that. Some people need anti-depressants. Some people need blood clotting agents. Some people get fat after eating the same amount of food some thin people eat.

The problem is the social stigma attached to drug use.  People that have a problem titrating the dose of their favorite drug or use the drug of their choice in inappropriate places stand out from other people. Society has a problem with people that are different whether it is being fucked up or fat.

I have never seen anybody who needs drugs to function ever get clean unless they dedicate every hour of their waking lives working to stay clean. The same thing goes for people with a genetic predisposition to being fat.

Although I have never done a detox dose of Ibogaine, it seems like a tool, a unique tool, but nothing more.

Steve

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:40:45 -0400

Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol>Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?<

Dana,
What are you talking about? What military wing? What does this mean? And, another thing. Do you Really Believe that “Ibogaine, if sufficiently publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?” Sorry, I don’t buy it. It is only one topic of discussion amongst an endless variety of topics that revolve in, around, and about the DrugWar. It is one avenue to something, probably a bit different for each who tries it, but I tend to think it’s not for everyone, nor will it, if sufficiently publicized, do much more than alert folk to yet another tool they can use however they will to attempt to gain some sort of something or other, be it enlightenment, temporary relief from icky withdrawals, change in perspective be it temporary or not, whatever.
I think Andria’s point Dana was that as this is a list primarily devoted to the topic of Ibogaine, perhaps her questions were more suitable for the Drugwar@mindvox list instead of here. It isn’t a military wing, if that is what yer refereeing to.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!

andria mordaunt

Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?

Dana/cnw

_________________________________________________________________
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From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 4:51:54 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even if Ibogaine were made available to every junkie in the world
for free, lots of them would get strung out again. Some people are
not capable of dealing with life without a little something extra.
It could be for environmental reasons, something that happened to
them somewhere in their lives.  It could be genetic. It could be
both. What ever the reason, it seems that we can’t enjoy life the
way “normal” people do without something extra. Frankly, I don’t see
a problem with that. Some people need anti-depressants. Some people
need blood clotting agents. Some people get fat after eating the
same amount of food some thin people eat.

The problem is the social stigma attached to drug use.  People that
have a problem titrating the dose of their favorite drug or use the
drug of their choice in inappropriate places stand out from other
people. Society has a problem with people that are different whether
it is being fucked up or fat.

I have never seen anybody who needs drugs to function ever get clean
unless they dedicate every hour of their waking lives working to
stay clean. The same thing goes for people with a genetic
predisposition to being fat.

Although I have never done a detox dose of Ibogaine, it seems like a
tool, a unique tool, but nothing more.

Steve

But if the purpose of the current war on drugs is to cut down (never
being able to eliminate) the hard drugs phenomena, just detoxing the
people ibo does work on would achieve better statistical results that
the current “anti-terrorist” model of swat-team enforcement. Ibogaine
sends the message that there is a better way, that the medical
alternatives do not simply consist of methadone and UROD. When enough
people hear that message, things will change.

Dana/cnw

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] why?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 4:34:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro I think he’s off somewhere in his own world and doesn’t understand how arrogant he sounds.

I don’t listen much to people complaining but if this is what they get then maybe there’s some truth to Sara’s reports of what her clients who have detoxed at healing visions before going with her are subjected to. Arrogant people who hold all the answers.

I’m off this thread, do not need the negative energy.

Peace out,
Curtis

On Wed, 18 Sep 2002 Vector Vector wrote :

He’s the same moron sending out spam ūüėČ

Healing visions must be running out of clients or
something.

Patrick who is this guy? Who is he helping? Does he
not understand most of the people on this list got
help for a lot less money?

.:vector:.

— KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
> The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
> real Drs. and scientists
> who do their work at great finical loss to help
> those who still suffer. It is
> the only recognized legitimate study and that is the
> only way Ibo will ever
> get legalized. So get real  and grateful and put
> down your anger.
>
> We would gladly treat all who need help if we could.
> Why don’t you put your
> money where your mouth is and pay for someone who
> can’t afford it. Do you not
> think Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing
> something else. Well, I know
> for sure she can.
>
>
> Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically
> and with respect.
>
> Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want to
> take it on a cot in a
> third world country with no physician on hand if
> something goes wrong.
>
> Be kind
> We all work together.
> Cures not wars.
> Increase the peace my brother.
>
>
> JDK
>

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From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] why?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 4:09:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

He’s the same moron sending out spam ūüėČ

Healing visions must be running out of clients or
something.

Patrick who is this guy? Who is he helping? Does he
not understand most of the people on this list got
help for a lot less money?

.:vector:.

— KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
The people who run and work at Healing Visions are
real Drs. and scientists
who do their work at great finical loss to help
those who still suffer. It is
the only recognized legitimate study and that is the
only way Ibo will ever
get legalized. So get real  and grateful and put
down your anger.

We would gladly treat all who need help if we could.
Why don’t you put your
money where your mouth is and pay for someone who
can’t afford it. Do you not
think Dr. Mash could make a lot more money doing
something else. Well, I know
for sure she can.

Healing Visions treats patients safely, ethically
and with respect.

Ibo has potent cardiac side effects. Do you want to
take it on a cot in a
third world country with no physician on hand if
something goes wrong.

Be kind
We all work together.
Cures not wars.
Increase the peace my brother.

JDK

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: “steve diamond” <stevediamond79@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 4:05:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Even if Ibogaine were made available to every junkie in the world for free, lots of them would get strung out again. Some people are not capable of dealing with life without a little something extra. It could be for environmental reasons, something that happened to them somewhere in their lives. ¬†It could be genetic. It could be both. What ever the reason, it seems that we can’t enjoy life the way “normal” people do without something extra. Frankly, I don’t see a problem with that. Some people need anti-depressants. Some people need blood clotting agents. Some people get fat after eating the same amount of food some thin people eat.

The problem is the social stigma attached to drug use.  People that have a problem titrating the dose of their favorite drug or use the drug of their choice in inappropriate places stand out from other people. Society has a problem with people that are different whether it is being fucked up or fat.

I have never seen anybody who needs drugs to function ever get clean unless they dedicate every hour of their waking lives working to stay clean. The same thing goes for people with a genetic predisposition to being fat.

Although I have never done a detox dose of Ibogaine, it seems like a tool, a unique tool, but nothing more.

Steve

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:40:45 -0400

Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol>Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?<

Dana,
What are you talking about? What military wing? What does this mean? And, another thing. Do you Really Believe that “Ibogaine, if sufficiently publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?” Sorry, I don’t buy it. It is only one topic of discussion amongst an endless variety of topics that revolve in, around, and about the DrugWar. It is one avenue to something, probably a bit different for each who tries it, but I tend to think it’s not for everyone, nor will it, if sufficiently publicized, do much more than alert folk to yet another tool they can use however they will to attempt to gain some sort of something or other, be it enlightenment, temporary relief from icky withdrawals, change in perspective be it temporary or not, whatever.
I think Andria’s point Dana was that as this is a list primarily devoted to the topic of Ibogaine, perhaps her questions were more suitable for the Drugwar@mindvox list instead of here. It isn’t a military wing, if that is what yer refereeing to.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!

andria mordaunt

Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?

Dana/cnw

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] why?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 3:56:17 PM EDT
To: KamletMD@aol.com
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi, why are you writing me all this? I already did
ibogaine over a year ago. I didn’t ask for any detox
info.

Carla B

— KamletMD@aol.com wrote:
Healing Visions has a Ibo round scheduled for mid
Oct. Any one seeking info
can call 1-888-264-6474 in strict confidentiality
for info. Time is running
out as only a few slots are left and medical
clearance is needed in advance.
The program is top notch with  complete MD
supervision. Stay clean and Live
free.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 3:19:06 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I missed that sentence before sending my post.
Ooops.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net ; lensman@stardrive.org ; hward@wineshopper.com ; Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk ; IMDJam@cs.com ; gbekkum@mediaone.net ; Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk ; gschwart@u.arizona.edu ; e-merrill2@ti.com ; Bob Ezergailis ; cynthia ford ; G. G. Ford ; brumac@compuserve.com ; yokatta@oxy.edu ; kklingon@cwcom.net ; cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp ; Adrian ; dewatson@sunflower.com ; CloudRider@aol.com ; JagdishM@aol.com ; phylegyas@hotmail.com ; schwann@webtrance.co.za ; ibogalab@hotmail.com ; zentarot@hotmail.com ; Paul DeRienzo ; Stews@radiks.net ; foozleman@worldnet.att.net ; bmasel@tds.net ; heff01@email.msn.com ; kingfelix@mediaone.net ; PTPEET@cs.com ; luxefair@bellsouth.net ; cardboard_dada@yahoo.com ; prophets@maui.net ; m.pilkington@virgin.net ; PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG ; delaneyw@shasta.com ; Edward Jahn ; derlock@mailexcite.com ; Andre Welling ; Mitchel Cohen ; MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I ; miriamwhite420@hotmail.com ; ibogaine@mindvox.com ; Nick Sandberg ; George Clayton Johnson ; axiom@greatmystery.org ; dancegroove@nyc.rr.com ; warcry@indymedia.org ; Jay Statzer ; philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?

>Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?<

Dana,
What are you talking about? What military wing? What does this mean? And, another thing. Do you Really Believe that “Ibogaine, if sufficiently publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?” Sorry, I don’t buy it. It is only one topic of discussion amongst an endless variety of topics that revolve in, around, and about¬†the DrugWar. It is one avenue to something, probably a bit different for each who tries it, but I tend to think it’s¬†not for everyone, nor will it, if sufficiently publicized, do much more than alert folk to yet another tool they can use however they will to attempt to gain some sort of something or other, be it enlightenment, temporary relief from icky withdrawals, change in perspective be it temporary or not, whatever.
I think Andria’s point Dana was that as this is a list primarily devoted to the topic of Ibogaine, perhaps her questions were more suitable for the Drugwar@mindvox list instead of here. It isn’t a military wing, if that is what yer referring to.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!
andria mordaunt

Preston, Andrea:

What I was saying was: before you set up the military wing of anything, why not explore things that were conceived as alternatives to “military wings” of movements, which in 1980 when we started the Ibogaine Project had just happened or were still happening. The BLA Brinks bust wasn’t until ’81–and snagged Mtulu Shakur, the Father of accupuncture for De-tox in the U.S. for addiction, among others. Remember Lincoln Drug Free De-tox? Ernie Drucker is still quite hostile because of that; check the IBOGAINE STORY for details, but it explains a lot about DPA’s refusal to deal with Ibogaine.

All those guys are still in jail. I’m supposed to send a book to the Bedford Hills Correctional Facility. But Ibogaine was conceived as a different way to accomplish the same thing as the Panthers shutting down heroin in Harlem–to subtract the junky from the bottom of the heroin pyramid, the one irreplaceable factor in the junk equation.

Ibogaine, if successful, causes people to switch sides in a very real way. And people around them are affected in concentric circles. Kind of like “facts on the ground” in the West Bank. When it gets to a certain critical mass, the shift occurs to next phase of the process.

At the time, the inspiration came from an insight gleaned from a PK Dick book entitled “Now Wait for Last Year,” about an Iboga or harmala-like drug that causes users to travel in time–backwards in time for most people, who try and change their lives only to have the changes disappear when they return to the present, but in a few cases forward in time in the case of the protagonist , and for the main character Molinari, sideways into alternative timelines. And this is the basis for the story, because Molinari is Secretary General of the UN in an interstellar war between the Nazi humanoids from Lilystar and the communistic cockroachlike Reegs, and he’s gotten Earth in on the wrong side. The Lilystarians are pressing him to send 6 million humans to slavelabor factories on Lilystar, while backstage negotiations are taking place with the Reegs for Earth to change sides, like Italy in WW II. To deal with this, Molinari is buying time by dying, replacing himself with an alternative Molinari from a nearby timeline, and then dying again..

So this gave rise to the insight– in the future, entire interstellar wars may be decided by injection of a psychedelic gas into the atmospheres of certain planets, which will cause whole populations to SWITCH SIDES over night. And then in researching for the book, I encountered the sensibility in VALIS that the only worthwhile change is accomplished one person at a time anyway. Military means are to crude, to blunt, to conducive to unacceptable collateral damage.

But I have seen the effect of whole populations changing sides because of a psychedelic with LSD, when a generation turned against the establishment because they could not understand why a government would ban something so obviously neat. And the folks around Bush remember LSD as well. Keep that in mind. In this post-Reichstag-fire atmosphere when any dissent or even its potential is considered an unacceptable risk to the requisite national unity necessary to fight this endless war, Ibogaine is under suspicion.

Dana/cnw

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 17, 2002 at 3:01:33 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: dansmith@clark.net, lensman@stardrive.org, hward@wineshopper.com, Mark@k-dunn.freeserve.co.uk, IMDJam@cs.com, gbekkum@mediaone.net, Gary@osborn-day.freeserve.co.uk, gschwart@u.arizona.edu, e-merrill2@ti.com, “Bob Ezergailis” <morpheal@bserv.com>, “cynthia ford” <maruta@wco.com>, “G. G. Ford” <swimp@shaw.ca>, <brumac@compuserve.com>, <yokatta@oxy.edu>, <kklingon@cwcom.net>, <cyrano@aqua.ocn.ne.jp>, “Adrian” <afme@ihug.co.nz>, dewatson@sunflower.com, CloudRider@aol.com, JagdishM@aol.com, phylegyas@hotmail.com, schwann@webtrance.co.za, ibogalab@hotmail.com, zentarot@hotmail.com, Paul DeRienzo <pdr@echonyc.com>, Stews@radiks.net, foozleman@worldnet.att.net, bmasel@tds.net, heff01@email.msn.com, kingfelix@mediaone.net, PTPEET@cs.com, luxefair@bellsouth.net, cardboard_dada@yahoo.com, prophets@maui.net, m.pilkington@virgin.net, PCLARK@JJHILL.ORG, delaneyw@shasta.com, Edward Jahn <ejahn@barnard.edu>, derlock@mailexcite.com, “Andre Welling” <andre.welling@db.com>, Mitchel Cohen <mitchelcohen@mindspring.com>, “MUTANEX Command HAWAI’I” <mutanex@aloha.net>, miriamwhite420@hotmail.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com, Nick Sandberg <nick.sandberg@virgin.net>, George Clayton Johnson <hempjack@earthlink.net>, axiom@greatmystery.org, dancegroove@nyc.rr.com, “warcry@indymedia.org” <warcrycinema@yahoo.com>, “Jay Statzer” <jstatzer@qtm.net>, philipkdick@yahoogroups.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?<

Dana,
What are you talking about? What military wing? What does this mean? And, another thing. Do you Really Believe that “Ibogaine, if sufficiently publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?” Sorry, I don’t buy it. It is only one topic of discussion amongst an endless variety of topics that revolve in, around, and about¬†the DrugWar. It is one avenue to something, probably a bit different for each who tries it, but I tend to think it’s¬†not for everyone, nor will it, if sufficiently publicized, do much more than alert folk to yet another tool they can use however they will to attempt to gain some sort of something or other, be it enlightenment, temporary relief from icky withdrawals, change in perspective be it temporary or not, whatever.
I think Andria’s point Dana was that as this is a list primarily devoted to the topic of Ibogaine, perhaps her questions were more suitable for the Drugwar@mindvox list instead of here. It isn’t a military wing, if that is what yer referring to.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!
andria mordaunt

Preston, Andrea:

What I was saying was: before you set up the military wing of anything, why not explore things that were conceived as alternatives to “military wings” of movements, which in 1980 when we started the Ibogaine Project had just happened or were still happening. The BLA Brinks bust wasn’t until ’81–and snagged Mtulu Shakur, the Father of accupuncture for De-tox in the U.S. for addiction, among others. Remember Lincoln Drug Free De-tox? Ernie Drucker is still quite hostile because of that; check the IBOGAINE STORY for details, but it explains a lot about DPA’s refusal to deal with Ibogaine.

All those guys are still in jail. I’m supposed to send a book to the Bedford Hills Correctional Facility. But Ibogaine was conceived as a different way to accomplish the same thing as the Panthers shutting down heroin in Harlem–to subtract the junky from the bottom of the heroin pyramid, the one irreplaceable factor in the junk equation.

Ibogaine, if successful, causes people to switch sides in a very real way. And people around them are affected in concentric circles. Kind of like “facts on the ground” in the West Bank. When it gets to a certain critical mass, the shift occurs to next phase of the process.

At the time, the inspiration came from an insight gleaned from a PK Dick book entitled “Now Wait for Last Year,” about an Iboga or harmala-like drug that causes users to travel in time–backwards in time for most people, who try and change their lives only to have the changes disappear when they return to the present, but in a few cases forward in time in the case of the protagonist , and for the main character Molinari, sideways into alternative timelines. And this is the basis for the story, because Molinari is Secretary General of the UN in an interstellar war between the Nazi humanoids from Lilystar and the communistic cockroachlike Reegs, and he’s gotten Earth in on the wrong side. The Lilystarians are pressing him to send 6 million humans to slavelabor factories on Lilystar, while backstage negotiations are taking place with the Reegs for Earth to change sides, like Italy in WW II. To deal with this, Molinari is buying time by dying, replacing himself with an alternative Molinari from a nearby timeline, and then dying again..

So this gave rise to the insight– in the future, entire interstellar wars may be decided by injection of a psychedelic gas into the atmospheres of certain planets, which will cause whole populations to SWITCH SIDES over night. And then in researching for the book, I encountered the sensibility in VALIS that the only worthwhile change is accomplished one person at a time anyway. Military means are to crude, to blunt, to conducive to unacceptable collateral damage.

But I have seen the effect of whole populations changing sides because of a psychedelic with LSD, when a generation turned against the establishment because they could not understand why a government would ban something so obviously neat. And the folks around Bush remember LSD as well. Keep that in mind. In this post-Reichstag-fire atmosphere when any dissent or even its potential is considered an unacceptable risk to the requisite national unity necessary to fight this endless war, Ibogaine is under suspicion.

Dana/cnw

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 12:11:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 17:13 17.9.2002, you wrote:
In a message dated 9/16/02 2:20:16 PM Central Daylight Time, audrey_langston@talk21.com writes:
, Dave Michon and Richard Lake that
>| Dana posted to the MMM.

I have frantically been trying to reach Dave Michon.  Anyone want to give up his screename or web site.
I think that watchdog lost a very intelligent man because of cybo conflicts.  I really wish that he were back and bless him wherever he is, as well as his wife.

JO

He’s listed in the phone book in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.

Dana/cnw

And phone book is at http://www.anywho.com/
;-))
Marko

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 17, 2002 at 11:13:48 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/02 2:20:16 PM Central Daylight Time, audrey_langston@talk21.com writes:
, Dave Michon and Richard Lake that
>| Dana posted to the MMM.

I have frantically been trying to reach Dave Michon.  Anyone want to give up his screename or web site.
I think that watchdog lost a very intelligent man because of cybo conflicts.  I really wish that he were back and bless him wherever he is, as well as his wife.

JO

He’s listed in the phone book in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.

Dana/cnw

From: “flash gordan” <eyebegrowing@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] indra?????
Date: September 17, 2002 at 7:40:53 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all ,,,,

does anyone know why indra’s web site is down????? , the shops not working , they shuut shop ??

lots of questions i know

love

nic

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences
Date: September 17, 2002 at 7:27:39 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good luck Karina.¬† Thinking of you and best wishes….Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com <Mzzthangg13@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, 17 September 2002 10:51
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences

hi i am doing OK better every day still my vision is a little fuzzy……i went back to work today i did fine alittle shaky but after this week i should be fine no more shrinks i am going to find a MD the shrinks just mess me up……i am taking trazadone and quinine……i threw all the other pills in the garbage…..my husband and work are more important…thanks karina

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine tripping
Date: September 16, 2002 at 11:36:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just wanted to repost this message because I really
liked it. I hope it’s ok with you Curtis but this was
really good and I didn’t find that much when looking
for ibogaine experience reports for Mark.

Carla B

— Curtis ¬†Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
wrote:

Hey bro thanks for the thoughtful reply. I did not
have a habit
when I dosed I have been clean of heroin for about 2
years now
maybe a little longer if you count strictly heroin
and not the odd
pill here and there when someone have some good d
4’s I could not
pass up.

I’ve read so many different experiences happening
here but for me
when I did it my intent was like healing or wanting
to just be in
a better place. I didn’t have any huge expectation
and thought
I’ll trip. I did not have a real bad trip I mean I
went to some
darkness and cried afterwards and had some upheavels
but what it
really feels like is just this total cleansing.

Reading some of what’s on here I probably did not
need to dose at
the range I did to just have a spiritual kick off
from it, but
right now it’s strange. It is like a total
cleansing. I feel good!
I’ve felt not that good for so long I think I forgot
what it’s
like. I’m not on cloud 9 or anything but I’m happy
man. Life feels
good. It’s hard to explain but little things I
always took for
granted I’m happy for and it’s good to wake up in
the morning.

I do not think I am ready to personally become a
psychedelic
gateway to different planes like Patrick and I’m not
really
fiending for acid like karina but let me say that I
have lost a
lot of my fear and when acid comes into my life I
won’t be hiding
from it, because I’ve been so afraid to trip for a
long time and
so much of what I thought about all the time was
just not doing
heroin.

I don’t feel that way anymore. I feel good!

Peace out,
Curtis

On Thu, 15 Aug 2002 Nick Sandberg wrote :

Hi Curtis,

Mostly I figure ibogaine unloads you of what’s
going on beneath
the surface.
If there’s big backlog of stuff waiting to be
emptied out, like
the recycle
bin, then it tries to dump the lot during the
session. This is
one reason
why some people trip like crazy and others not so
much. I’d get a
lot of
emotional stuff for hours then feel really clean
for days
afterward, like
all the things in the way of me being who I wanted
to be were
gone.

all the best

Nick

“Not all who wander are lost” Right on man,
right on! And so
true.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Joatammmo23@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 6:54:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/16/02 2:20:16 PM Central Daylight Time, audrey_langston@talk21.com writes:

, Dave Michon and Richard Lake that
>| Dana posted to the MMM.

I have frantically been trying to reach Dave Michon.  Anyone want to give up his screename or web site.
I think that watchdog lost a very intelligent man because of cybo conflicts.  I really wish that he were back and bless him wherever he is, as well as his wife.

JO

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences
Date: September 16, 2002 at 6:50:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi i am doing OK better every day still my vision is a little fuzzy……i went back to work today i did fine alittle shaky but after this week i should be fine no more shrinks i am going to find a MD the shrinks just mess me up……i am taking trazadone and quinine……i threw all the other pills in the garbage…..my husband and work are more important…thanks karina

From: audrey_langston@talk21.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 3:09:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick, fine i stop but what the other person said say it all ‘conceited, greedy, illiterate’ it is almost exactly what Sara says her patients who have been to st. kitts then detox with her have said about arrogant know everything attitude from people who have never done iboga. I know you think well of Dr. Mash and I do not know her so maybe you are right but people like this person are what kept me sick and feeling like addict for most of my life only when I stop listening to any of them did I get better. Your story is no different you only speak it much better then others can say it.

On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 09:45:38AM -0700], [Vector] wrote:

| Ok Patrick, we’re all willing to accept Dr. Mash is ok
| because you say so. So if it wasn’t for ibogaine and
| Dr. Mash, then you wouldn’t be here, so Mindvox
| wouldn’t be here, we wouldn’t be here and this
| means………….I’d be watching much more TV! ūüėČ

See…? ¬†Harm Reduction works yo!

| But this person is just conceited, greedy and
| illiterate. Is he part of the great staff that $10,000
| buys? ūüėČ
|
| that guy is a moron.

Do0d, chill out or I’ll unalias youz. ¬†The Horror! ¬†<bitchslap upside tha
heyd.> ¬†He was just trying to be helpful, or sumthin’ ¬†Cut him some slack,
he has a mysterious disease, it’s not his fault.

| And you were too nice ūüôā I like what you have to say
| about the 12 steps much more in that letter between
| you, Dana, Howard, Dave Michon and Richard Lake that
| Dana posted to the MMM. The rest of the net agrees
| with me, it’s the #1 most linked ibogaine piece
| online. Stop with the being nice. it’s not you ūüėČ
|
|
| http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html
Vector, v3(t0r, vectoR . . . We try not to say things like that to people
who express their enthusiasm ’bout joining that whole entire 12-step
thing.  Let them discover if they are OF THE CULT all by themselves first.

| Much more important, Mindvox is around 200 places from
| knocking out High Times! ūüôā
|
| Mindvox: 15,197
| High Times: 15,017
|
| http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=mindvox.com
| http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=hightimes.com
|
| .:vector:.

Well, see, this is highly groovy, ‘cuz freedom of the press belongs to
those who own one.

And freedom of speech belongs to those who have an audience.

Thusly; like rock out yo.

On the downside, by 2003 our hit rate will be higher than MTV and all this
will mean is there sure are a lotta people perpetually connected to
MindVox… ¬†Except, see… ¬†That whole dot.bomb thing appears to be gone.

This is a real bummer… ¬†I loved dot . com. ¬†My ex-wife, my sanity, all
those veins I used to have, who cares… ¬†I just want my beautiful,
beautiful money back.  Being broke sucks.  Please come back dot .com, we
loved you, we PROMISE to never take you for granted again. ¬†I’m uhm, gonna
cry now.

Anywaze, World War III will start real soon now, and the End of Daze will
begin in earnest, and all these points will be rounded.

Merry Apocalypse and a Happy Kali Yuga,

Patrick

——————–
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] what military wing Dana?
Date: September 16, 2002 at 1:40:45 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?<

Dana,
What are you talking about? What military wing? What does this mean? And, another thing. Do you Really Believe that “Ibogaine, if sufficiently publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?” Sorry, I don’t buy it. It is only one topic of discussion amongst an endless variety of topics that revolve in, around, and about¬†the DrugWar. It is one avenue to something, probably a bit different for each who tries it, but I tend to think it’s¬†not for everyone, nor will it, if sufficiently publicized, do much more than alert folk to yet another tool they can use however they will to attempt to gain some sort of something or other, be it enlightenment, temporary relief from icky withdrawals, change in perspective be it temporary or not, whatever.
I think Andria’s point Dana was that as this is a list primarily devoted to the topic of Ibogaine, perhaps her questions were more suitable for the Drugwar@mindvox list instead of here. It isn’t a military wing, if that is what yer refereeing to.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Dana Beal
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!

andria mordaunt

Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?

Dana/cnw

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 1:31:07 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 01:21:30PM -0400], [Dana Beal] wrote:

| >Yeh Marko and everybody
| >Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a
| >main panelist on one of our political talk shows
| >He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be
| >pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present
| >
| >When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their
| >carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the
| >DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin
| >Laden…
| >
| >And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one
| >right?!
| >
| >andria mordaunt
|
| Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if
| sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?
|
| Dana/cnw

Ya know, that, LSD and MDMA, sprayed over the surface of the Whole Entire
Planet, hold the keys to human salvation.

Or at least a Great Fucking Time, before the cosmic reset gets hit.

Woo hoo!

Patrick

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 1:29:37 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 09:45:38AM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| Ok Patrick, we’re all willing to accept Dr. Mash is ok
| because you say so. So if it wasn’t for ibogaine and
| Dr. Mash, then you wouldn’t be here, so Mindvox
| wouldn’t be here, we wouldn’t be here and this
| means………….I’d be watching much more TV! ūüėČ

See…? ¬†Harm Reduction works yo!

| But this person is just conceited, greedy and
| illiterate. Is he part of the great staff that $10,000
| buys? ūüėČ
|
| Sorry, that guy is a moron.

Do0d, chill out or I’ll unalias youz. ¬†The Horror! ¬†<bitchslap upside tha
heyd.> ¬†He was just trying to be helpful, or sumthin’ ¬†Cut him some slack,
he has a mysterious disease, it’s not his fault.

| And you were too nice ūüôā I like what you have to say
| about the 12 steps much more in that letter between
| you, Dana, Howard, Dave Michon and Richard Lake that
| Dana posted to the MMM. The rest of the net agrees
| with me, it’s the #1 most linked ibogaine piece
| online. Stop with the being nice. it’s not you ūüėČ
|
| http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

Vector, v3(t0r, vectoR . . . We try not to say things like that to people
who express their enthusiasm ’bout joining that whole entire 12-step
thing.  Let them discover if they are OF THE CULT all by themselves first.

| Much more important, Mindvox is around 200 places from
| knocking out High Times! ūüôā
|
| Mindvox: 15,197
| High Times: 15,017
|
| http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=mindvox.com
| http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=hightimes.com
|
| .:vector:.

Well, see, this is highly groovy, ‘cuz freedom of the press belongs to
those who own one.

And freedom of speech belongs to those who have an audience.

Thusly; like rock out yo.

On the downside, by 2003 our hit rate will be higher than MTV and all this
will mean is there sure are a lotta people perpetually connected to
MindVox… ¬†Except, see… ¬†That whole dot.bomb thing appears to be gone.

This is a real bummer… ¬†I loved dot . com. ¬†My ex-wife, my sanity, all
those veins I used to have, who cares… ¬†I just want my beautiful,
beautiful money back.  Being broke sucks.  Please come back dot .com, we
loved you, we PROMISE to never take you for granted again. ¬†I’m uhm, gonna
cry now.

Anywaze, World War III will start real soon now, and the End of Daze will
begin in earnest, and all these points will be rounded.

Merry Apocalypse and a Happy Kali Yuga,

Patrick

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 1:21:30 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!

andria mordaunt

Why a military wing of the drug reform movement, when Ibogaine–if sufficienty publicized–will simply cause everyone to switch sides?

Dana/cnw

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 12:52:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now that is scary.

I really am just waiting for when they let something
else blow up or make it blow up to take the attention
off the growing number of people who are no longer
believing what they’re being told.

The United States is going to suck hard. And I live
here.

.:vector:.

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
At 05:26 16.9.2002, you wrote:

I think we still
live in a free country — although, for those of us
in America I’m not
entirely sure, since I haven’t read the latest
revisions to the U.S.
Patriot Act — and he’s entitled to say whatever he
wants.

It seems that everybody (especially US residents)
should read the
bestseller Stupid White Men…and Other Sorry
Excuses for the State of the
Nation (by Michael Moore –
http://www.michaelmoore.com/) which is VERY
unusual book that stays 6 months on NY Times
bestseller list and being in
30th printing…. Moore shows many facts about USA
and its leaders,
including that 154 million of 200 million voters did
NOT vote for Bush, why
there’s no willing to use other energetic sources
than standard ones (and
it’s the same principle why Ibogaine is not widely
used!)…. In fact, this
book shows that most of people of the USA are still
OK, they don’t want
life as it turned out to be, they don’t want
corporations to make rules…
And Moore gives solutions, too! (in Ficus for the
Congress campaign, his
plant won elections over Republican candidate in New
Jersey!!! ;-))

Enjoy reading!

Marko

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 12:45:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Ok Patrick, we’re all willing to accept Dr. Mash is ok
because you say so. So if it wasn’t for ibogaine and
Dr. Mash, then you wouldn’t be here, so Mindvox
wouldn’t be here, we wouldn’t be here and this
means………….I’d be watching much more TV! ūüėČ

But this person is just conceited, greedy and
illiterate. Is he part of the great staff that $10,000
buys? ūüėČ

Sorry, that guy is a moron.

And you were too nice ūüôā I like what you have to say
about the 12 steps much more in that letter between
you, Dana, Howard, Dave Michon and Richard Lake that
Dana posted to the MMM. The rest of the net agrees
with me, it’s the #1 most linked ibogaine piece
online. Stop with the being nice. it’s not you ūüėČ

http://billstclair.com/blog/stories/ibogaine.html

Much more important, Mindvox is around 200 places from
knocking out High Times! ūüôā

Mindvox: 15,197
High Times: 15,017

http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=mindvox.com
http://www.alexa.com/data/details?amzn_id=&url=hightimes.com

.:vector:.

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 02:57:26AM +0000],
[audrey_langston@talk21.com] wrote:

| Yes and pay hundreds for referral and make more
money for head doctors
| and more money for everything and over $10000 us
dollars for ibogaine
| that is at most expensive $2000 everywhere else or
$600 if you only buy
| it. No thank you. Healing visions helps rich,
nobody else. You can start
| write 50 very funny and smart paragraph to defend
healing vision now
| patrick but even that does not change it. I think
you last person to
| defend the rest of 12 step abuse. Anyone left
doing that here? dont
| think so.
|
| Ibogaine legal almost on whole world.
|
| http://ibogaine-therapy.net
| http://ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm
|
|
| > Ibogaine treatment in St. Kitts vis Healing
Visions is legal safe and the
| >best prgram out there by far. E- mail
KAMLETMD@AOL.COM , for referal

Hey Audrey,

Actually I really don’t have the time to write fifty
paragraphs, or get
involved in yet another, “Is Healing VizuNz tha
DebBil!?!?!??”
conversation, so I’m just gonna take a pass on all
that and sum it up in a
few easy to read sentences.

I detoxed with HV several years ago.  What you will
find there is high
quality ibogaine, administered under medical
supervision, and a variety of
staff who will work with you to help figure out what
kind of aftercare
paradigm works the best, for YOU.

Dr. Mash is very cool people, and if I were to
summarize the three
essential components of how I cut loose that whole
entire being sprung
scenario, it’d go like this: Ibogaine, Deborah, and
eventually myself.
I’ve already said this at least 20 times.

Not everyone is the same, different paradigms have
varying levels of
efficacy for a variety of individuals. ¬†I’m not
compatible with the
12-step model, but it works well for many people.
In the worst case it is
a reasonable starting point, because MOST people who
have put in a lotta
time being strung-out, are going to need some sort
of aftercare.  And if
you actually read the lists there are many people
who started there, and
then found something else to do down the line.

Dosing with ibogaine and then… <Doing Nothing>
will result in being
strung out again in the near-term future for most
individuals. ¬†I’ve
already covered this many times as well.

In closing, Jeff is an addictionologist who refers
people to Healing
Visions; he is doing the same thing that I do:
speaking HIS truth to the
best of his ability to do so.  He does not represent
HV.  I think we still
live in a free country — although, for those of us
in America I’m not
entirely sure, since I haven’t read the latest
revisions to the U.S.
Patriot Act — and he’s entitled to say whatever he
wants.

If you cannot afford HV, or feel that you don’t need
any kind of follow-up
care, then as you pointed out, there are a variety
of other places you can
go.  Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.  HV
isn’t the ibogaine Buff
‘n Shine, here’s your dose, don’t let the door hit
your ass on the way
out; assembly line.  The main point is trying to
help people MAINTAIN
after they’re unsprung. ¬†And STAY clear of heroin,
crack, or whatever
their problem is.

Alright, that was 7 paragraphs, I’m doing my best
here Audrey. ¬†So here’s
the very last part: hey, *I* detoxed there and
managed to stay clean after
an entire adult life strung-out. ¬†And I’m
everybody’s nightmare. ¬†Deborah
rocks the fuck out.

God bless,

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Randywalker57@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Posting?
Date: September 16, 2002 at 8:16:17 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

<PRE>How do I post?  Is there a message board?

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 7:05:15 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeh Marko and everybody
Michael Moore was on British terrestrial TV recently speaking as a main panelist on one of our political talk shows
He was very inspiring and exposed the nonsense that seems to be pouring out of the U.S. in lorry-loads at present

When the DEA started to brutalise MM club paptients and their carers, I began to talk about setting up the military wing of the DPReform movement; a bit like Bush last year swore vengeance on Bin Laden…

And I guess this is a message more for the Drugwar list not this one right?!

andria mordaunt

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 6:15:11 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Its not a competition of how you stay clean its just getting there.   Just
as everyone is so individual about the drugs they have taken or got hooked
on everyone has their own indidual needs, emotional and physical to get
clean.  Different things work for different people and everyone just has to
try and figure out what suits them.  If it works thats great, no matter what
it is…….. ¬†Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Curtis Hersch <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 16 September 2002 18:01
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 –
4 msgs

I think whatever gets you through is good. The 12 steps just had
too much negative people telling me do it this way or I will die.
That just isn’t true so I found other things to do.

Ibogaine finally being one of them ūüôā

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 Patrick K. Kroupa wrote :
On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 02:57:26AM +0000],
[audrey_langston@talk21.com] wrote:

| Yes and pay hundreds for referral and make more money for head
doctors
| and more money for everything and over $10000 us dollars for
ibogaine
| that is at most expensive $2000 everywhere else or $600 if you
only buy
| it. No thank you. Healing visions helps rich, nobody else. You
can start
| write 50 very funny and smart paragraph to defend healing
vision now
| patrick but even that does not change it. I think you last
person to
| defend the rest of 12 step abuse. Anyone left doing that here?
dont
| think so.
|
| Ibogaine legal almost on whole world.
|
| http://ibogaine-therapy.net
| http://ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm
|
|
| > Ibogaine treatment in St. Kitts vis Healing Visions is legal
safe and the
| >best prgram out there by far. E- mail KAMLETMD@AOL.COM , for
referal

Hey Audrey,

Actually I really don’t have the time to write fifty paragraphs,
or get
involved in yet another, “Is Healing VizuNz tha DebBil!?!?!??”
conversation, so I’m just gonna take a pass on all that and sum
it up in a
few easy to read sentences.

I detoxed with HV several years ago.  What you will find there is
high
quality ibogaine, administered under medical supervision, and a
variety of
staff who will work with you to help figure out what kind of
aftercare
paradigm works the best, for YOU.

Dr. Mash is very cool people, and if I were to summarize the
three
essential components of how I cut loose that whole entire being
sprung
scenario, it’d go like this: Ibogaine, Deborah, and eventually
myself.
I’ve already said this at least 20 times.

Not everyone is the same, different paradigms have varying levels
of
efficacy for a variety of individuals. ¬†I’m not compatible with
the
12-step model, but it works well for many people.  In the worst
case it is
a reasonable starting point, because MOST people who have put in
a lotta
time being strung-out, are going to need some sort of aftercare.
And if
you actually read the lists there are many people who started
there, and
then found something else to do down the line.

Dosing with ibogaine and then… <Doing Nothing> will result in
being
strung out again in the near-term future for most individuals.
I’ve
already covered this many times as well.

In closing, Jeff is an addictionologist who refers people to
Healing
Visions; he is doing the same thing that I do: speaking HIS truth
to the
best of his ability to do so.  He does not represent HV.  I think
we still
live in a free country — although, for those of us in America
I’m not
entirely sure, since I haven’t read the latest revisions to the
U.S.
Patriot Act — and he’s entitled to say whatever he wants.

If you cannot afford HV, or feel that you don’t need any kind of
follow-up
care, then as you pointed out, there are a variety of other
places you can
go. ¬†Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. ¬†HV isn’t the
ibogaine Buff
‘n Shine, here’s your dose, don’t let the door hit your ass on
the way
out; assembly line.  The main point is trying to help people
MAINTAIN
after they’re unsprung. ¬†And STAY clear of heroin, crack, or
whatever
their problem is.

Alright, that was 7 paragraphs, I’m doing my best here Audrey.
So here’s
the very last part: hey, *I* detoxed there and managed to stay
clean after
an entire adult life strung-out. ¬†And I’m everybody’s nightmare.
Deborah
rocks the fuck out.

God bless,

Patrick

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 3:46:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

At 05:26 16.9.2002, you wrote:

I think we still
live in a free country — although, for those of us in America I’m not
entirely sure, since I haven’t read the latest revisions to the U.S.
Patriot Act — and he’s entitled to say whatever he wants.

It seems that everybody (especially US residents) should read the bestseller Stupid White Men…and Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation (by Michael Moore – http://www.michaelmoore.com/) which is VERY unusual book that stays 6 months on NY Times bestseller list and being in 30th printing…. Moore shows many facts about USA and its leaders, including that 154 million of 200 million voters did NOT vote for Bush, why there’s no willing to use other energetic sources than standard ones (and it’s the same principle why Ibogaine is not widely used!)…. In fact, this book shows that most of people of the USA are still OK, they don’t want life as it turned out to be, they don’t want corporations to make rules…
And Moore gives solutions, too! (in Ficus for the Congress campaign, his plant won elections over Republican candidate in New Jersey!!! ;-))

Enjoy reading!

Marko

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 16, 2002 at 1:33:33 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think whatever gets you through is good. The 12 steps just had too much negative people telling me do it this way or I will die. That just isn’t true so I found other things to do.

Ibogaine finally being one of them ūüôā

Peace out,
Curtis

On Mon, 16 Sep 2002 Patrick K. Kroupa wrote :
On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 02:57:26AM +0000], [audrey_langston@talk21.com] wrote:

| Yes and pay hundreds for referral and make more money for head doctors
| and more money for everything and over $10000 us dollars for ibogaine
| that is at most expensive $2000 everywhere else or $600 if you only buy
| it. No thank you. Healing visions helps rich, nobody else. You can start
| write 50 very funny and smart paragraph to defend healing vision now
| patrick but even that does not change it. I think you last person to
| defend the rest of 12 step abuse. Anyone left doing that here? dont
| think so.
|
| Ibogaine legal almost on whole world.
|
| http://ibogaine-therapy.net
| http://ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm
|
|
| > Ibogaine treatment in St. Kitts vis Healing Visions is legal safe and the
| >best prgram out there by far. E- mail KAMLETMD@AOL.COM , for referal

Hey Audrey,

Actually I really don’t have the time to write fifty paragraphs, or get
involved in yet another, “Is Healing VizuNz tha DebBil!?!?!??”
conversation, so I’m just gonna take a pass on all that and sum it up in a
few easy to read sentences.

I detoxed with HV several years ago.  What you will find there is high
quality ibogaine, administered under medical supervision, and a variety of
staff who will work with you to help figure out what kind of aftercare
paradigm works the best, for YOU.

Dr. Mash is very cool people, and if I were to summarize the three
essential components of how I cut loose that whole entire being sprung
scenario, it’d go like this: Ibogaine, Deborah, and eventually myself.
I’ve already said this at least 20 times.

Not everyone is the same, different paradigms have varying levels of
efficacy for a variety of individuals. ¬†I’m not compatible with the
12-step model, but it works well for many people.  In the worst case it is
a reasonable starting point, because MOST people who have put in a lotta
time being strung-out, are going to need some sort of aftercare.  And if
you actually read the lists there are many people who started there, and
then found something else to do down the line.

Dosing with ibogaine and then… <Doing Nothing> will result in being
strung out again in the near-term future for most individuals. ¬†I’ve
already covered this many times as well.

In closing, Jeff is an addictionologist who refers people to Healing
Visions; he is doing the same thing that I do: speaking HIS truth to the
best of his ability to do so.  He does not represent HV.  I think we still
live in a free country — although, for those of us in America I’m not
entirely sure, since I haven’t read the latest revisions to the U.S.
Patriot Act — and he’s entitled to say whatever he wants.

If you cannot afford HV, or feel that you don’t need any kind of follow-up
care, then as you pointed out, there are a variety of other places you can
go. ¬†Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. ¬†HV isn’t the ibogaine Buff
‘n Shine, here’s your dose, don’t let the door hit your ass on the way
out; assembly line.  The main point is trying to help people MAINTAIN
after they’re unsprung. ¬†And STAY clear of heroin, crack, or whatever
their problem is.

Alright, that was 7 paragraphs, I’m doing my best here Audrey. ¬†So here’s
the very last part: hey, *I* detoxed there and managed to stay clean after
an entire adult life strung-out. ¬†And I’m everybody’s nightmare. ¬†Deborah
rocks the fuck out.

God bless,

Patrick

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 15, 2002 at 11:26:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl

On [Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 02:57:26AM +0000], [audrey_langston@talk21.com] wrote:

| Yes and pay hundreds for referral and make more money for head doctors
| and more money for everything and over $10000 us dollars for ibogaine
| that is at most expensive $2000 everywhere else or $600 if you only buy
| it. No thank you. Healing visions helps rich, nobody else. You can start
| write 50 very funny and smart paragraph to defend healing vision now
| patrick but even that does not change it. I think you last person to
| defend the rest of 12 step abuse. Anyone left doing that here? dont
| think so.
|
| Ibogaine legal almost on whole world.
|
| http://ibogaine-therapy.net
| http://ibogaine.co.uk/options.htm
|
|
| > Ibogaine treatment in St. Kitts vis Healing Visions is legal safe and the
| >best prgram out there by far. E- mail KAMLETMD@AOL.COM , for referal

Hey Audrey,

Actually I really don’t have the time to write fifty paragraphs, or get
involved in yet another, “Is Healing VizuNz tha DebBil!?!?!??”
conversation, so I’m just gonna take a pass on all that and sum it up in a
few easy to read sentences.

I detoxed with HV several years ago.  What you will find there is high
quality ibogaine, administered under medical supervision, and a variety of
staff who will work with you to help figure out what kind of aftercare
paradigm works the best, for YOU.

Dr. Mash is very cool people, and if I were to summarize the three
essential components of how I cut loose that whole entire being sprung
scenario, it’d go like this: Ibogaine, Deborah, and eventually myself.
I’ve already said this at least 20 times.

Not everyone is the same, different paradigms have varying levels of
efficacy for a variety of individuals. ¬†I’m not compatible with the
12-step model, but it works well for many people.  In the worst case it is
a reasonable starting point, because MOST people who have put in a lotta
time being strung-out, are going to need some sort of aftercare.  And if
you actually read the lists there are many people who started there, and
then found something else to do down the line.

Dosing with ibogaine and then… <Doing Nothing> will result in being
strung out again in the near-term future for most individuals. ¬†I’ve
already covered this many times as well.

In closing, Jeff is an addictionologist who refers people to Healing
Visions; he is doing the same thing that I do: speaking HIS truth to the
best of his ability to do so.  He does not represent HV.  I think we still
live in a free country — although, for those of us in America I’m not
entirely sure, since I haven’t read the latest revisions to the U.S.
Patriot Act — and he’s entitled to say whatever he wants.

If you cannot afford HV, or feel that you don’t need any kind of follow-up
care, then as you pointed out, there are a variety of other places you can
go. ¬†Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. ¬†HV isn’t the ibogaine Buff
‘n Shine, here’s your dose, don’t let the door hit your ass on the way
out; assembly line.  The main point is trying to help people MAINTAIN
after they’re unsprung. ¬†And STAY clear of heroin, crack, or whatever
their problem is.

Alright, that was 7 paragraphs, I’m doing my best here Audrey. ¬†So here’s
the very last part: hey, *I* detoxed there and managed to stay clean after
an entire adult life strung-out. ¬†And I’m everybody’s nightmare. ¬†Deborah
rocks the fuck out.

God bless,

Patrick

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences
Date: September 15, 2002 at 10:43:43 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The thing I would love to hear about from Mark is these healing visions
that he’s having.

elg

—– Original Message —–
From: “Carla Barnes” <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 8:58 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences

Hi all, I wanted to welcome Mark who I think is either
on the list or signing on. He’s detoxing with healing
visions and wanted to know what it’s like after
ibogaine and how to stay clean. Karina how are you
doing??

I gave him a list of Patrick’s Heroin Times articles
and the addiction series. Does anyone know what other
experience reports are good to read?

Ibogaine (from Heroin Times magazine, Feb 2001)

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

I’d say that

http://www.ibogaine.org and
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

have a lot of them. There are also those on

http://www.ibogaine.net but if you’re going to Healing
visions then you probably already read those.

I think he wants to work the 12 steps. Any advice
Dave or Brett? I think both of you started there
before dropping them or taking what you found useful
and leaving the rest ūüėČ In Dave’s case I think that’s
dropping all of it ūüėČ

I know Patrick, Dave and Brett all have experiene
reports without their names on them on ibogaine.org
but I forget which is which.

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: audrey_langston@talk21.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] Re: ibogaine digest, Vol 1 #162 – 4 msgs
Date: September 15, 2002 at 9:57:26 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yes and pay hundreds for referral and make more money for head doctors and more money for everything and over $10000 us dollars for ibogaine that is at most expensive $2000 everywhere else or $600 if you only buy it. No thank you. Healing visions helps rich, nobody else. You can start write 50 very funny and smart paragraph to defend healing vision now patrick but even that does not change it. I think you last person to defend the rest of 12 step abuse. Anyone left doing that here? dont think so.

Ibogaine legal almost on whole world.

http://ibogaine-therapy.net

Ibogaine Treatment Centres and supply options

Ibogaine treatment in St. Kitts vis Healing Visions is legal safe and the
best prgram out there by far. E- mail KAMLETMD@AOL.COM , for referal

——————–
talk21 your FREE portable and private address on the net at http://www.talk21.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] ibogaine experiences
Date: September 15, 2002 at 8:58:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi all, I wanted to welcome Mark who I think is either
on the list or signing on. He’s detoxing with healing
visions and wanted to know what it’s like after
ibogaine and how to stay clean. Karina how are you
doing??

I gave him a list of Patrick’s Heroin Times articles
and the addiction series. Does anyone know what other
experience reports are good to read?

Ibogaine (from Heroin Times magazine, Feb 2001)

http://herointimes.com/apr02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/may02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/jun02/intervent.html
http://herointimes.com/aug02/intervent.html

I’d say that

http://www.ibogaine.org and
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk

have a lot of them. There are also those on

http://www.ibogaine.net but if you’re going to Healing
visions then you probably already read those.

I think he wants to work the 12 steps. Any advice
Dave or Brett? I think both of you started there
before dropping them or taking what you found useful
and leaving the rest ūüėČ In Dave’s case I think that’s
dropping all of it ūüėČ

I know Patrick, Dave and Brett all have experiene
reports without their names on them on ibogaine.org
but I forget which is which.

Carla B

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 15, 2002 at 1:32:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Dana i swear i tried the melatonin..i have been on trazadone for 2 yrs…..that’s the only way i can sleep i take 250 mg weird dreams but i sleep that’s all that counts…..i have had insomnia my whole life..my hubby is going to put me on his insurance so i can see a “real” no more shrinks they mess me up more…….thanks karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 15, 2002 at 1:28:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi bill i tried the melatonin i swear they did not help i have had insomnia all my life even when i was on methadone….so for now the only way i get sleep is 250 mg of trazadone…..my hubby is going to put me on his insurance so i can see a “real” doc no more shrinks they mess me up more….thanks karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 15, 2002 at 1:25:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Chris sorry but the trazadone works get for me i am taking 250mg…….my hubby is going to put me on his insurance so i can see a “real” doc. no more shrinks……sorry the traz made you feel yucky i have been on them for 2yrs and i swear i cannot sleep without them i have tried…..karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 15, 2002 at 1:22:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Larry thanks I’ll see Mon. how it goes at work i think the 1st week will be hard……..i do not know why but i still have the shakes…my hubby is gonna put me on his insurance so i can see a real doc no more shrinks they put me on psycho drugs….thank you for our support karina

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: Re: [vox] Sept 12th: Protest Bush At UN
Date: September 14, 2002 at 12:17:40 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Not exactly on topic but this is one of the coolest
things the main vox list people who went to the UN
protest did.

Kurt Vonnegut on George Bush ūüôā

bartcop.com is some funny shit too ūüôā

.:vector:.

— Marguerite <mcc@berryhilllodge.com> wrote:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:55:28 -0400
To: vox@mindvox.com
From: Marguerite <mcc@berryhilllodge.com>
Subject: Re: [vox] Sept 12th: Protest Bush At UN

I got a picture of Kurt Vonnugut holding my sign at
the UN demo:

http://www.eyeofthemind.com/kurtv.htm

We chatted a bit. He said, “This society has
perfected the art of brainwashing.” Among his other
bon mot there was also, “No worry. Bush has God on
his side.”

The sticker on his sweater said, “Bartcop.com”
(I am trying to win a trip to Las Vegas with
the best picture including that sticker).
But it got washed out with the lighting.

I met him the night before at the Reverend Billy
revival
at St Mark’s Church where he spoke on the original
meaning of “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a
tooth”:

http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=31741&group=webcast

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 9:09:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Ross” <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina

For sleep, melatonin is perfectly natural, safe, and your
brain loves it. It has healing powers on the mind AND body.
You just have to find the perfect dose for yourself. Take
too much and you’ll go into a shadow doze, where you’re
not really asleep. The perfect amount tho will leave you feel very
soothed, relaxed, and well-rested.

Just a note that it isn’t the same for everyone – melatonin
makes me feel like I want to cry under the least amount of
stress the next day, something I’ve never experienced otherwise.
This is with doses ranging from 1/4 to a whole pill (I believe
the pills are 2 or 3 mg).

Bill

Yes, I am extremely sensitive to it as well. It’s the only thing I’ve ever
taken that I have to break pills in half, or fourths. And high times and a
friend I know both told me how well it mixes with marijuana, and induces
lucid dreams, but I’ve never experienced this. Maybe the kind I buy is not
high quality enough. I go cheap with it, and get it at walmart. That’s a
strange report of you feeling like crying on it. It does relax the mind
considerably, so this could be stress finding it easy to come thru, since
you’re mind is relaxed by it. ¬†If I take a whole pill, I can’t sleep well
at all. But I do know that it has extremely powerful anti-oxidant
abilities. It wipes away those poisonous free radicals in your bodies;
these are the things that make you age. There are not as many anti-oxidants
that will do this for the brain, but melatonin will, and that’s why can be
a good thing.

elgrekkko

That thing about not being able to sleep if you do a lot can be
obviated by getting up and  taking a long, hot shower. With the
melatonin to relax yr mind and begin the dissociative state of sleep
PLUS body endorphins, I pass right out. And I’m the kind of insomniac
who obsesses in the middle of the night.

Dana/cnw

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 8:19:00 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Bill Ross” <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina

For sleep, melatonin is perfectly natural, safe, and your
brain loves it. It has healing powers on the mind AND body.
You just have to find the perfect dose for yourself. Take
too much and you’ll go into a shadow doze, where you’re
not really asleep. The perfect amount tho will leave you feel very
soothed, relaxed, and well-rested.

Just a note that it isn’t the same for everyone – melatonin
makes me feel like I want to cry under the least amount of
stress the next day, something I’ve never experienced otherwise.
This is with doses ranging from 1/4 to a whole pill (I believe
the pills are 2 or 3 mg).

Bill

Yes, I am extremely sensitive to it as well. It’s the only thing I’ve ever
taken that I have to break pills in half, or fourths. And high times and a
friend I know both told me how well it mixes with marijuana, and induces
lucid dreams, but I’ve never experienced this. Maybe the kind I buy is not
high quality enough. I go cheap with it, and get it at walmart. That’s a
strange report of you feeling like crying on it. It does relax the mind
considerably, so this could be stress finding it easy to come thru, since
you’re mind is relaxed by it. ¬†If I take a whole pill, I can’t sleep well
at all. But I do know that it has extremely powerful anti-oxidant
abilities. It wipes away those poisonous free radicals in your bodies;
these are the things that make you age. There are not as many anti-oxidants
that will do this for the brain, but melatonin will, and that’s why can be
a good thing.

elgrekkko

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Nick Nolte’s Mugshot
Date: September 13, 2002 at 8:07:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Amazingly beautiful, especially since he got behind the wheel of a car drunk, endangering everyone else on the streets with him apparently.
My girlfriend’s family has had arguments with me, yelling at me “don’t tell me pot isn’t harmful!” as¬†various family members, including him,¬†slugged back beers, then got in¬†their cars to drive home from NJ to NY. Hmmm….whether they were “drunk” I don’t know, but it sure is hypocritical. The cops who arrest Nolte were probably relieved it was “just” alcohol they picked up Nolte for, not “drugs”.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: ElGrekkko
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; vox@mindvox.com ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 6:46 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Nick Nolte’s Mugshot

We need to see more stars get arrested for drug use to highlight the
problem of prohibition and get more lawmakers seeing that means other than
jail need to be considered. The fact that Nick Nolte got arrested is good
news. I hope this happens more, in Hollywood and around the world. His
mugshot is astoundingly beautiful. Check it out.
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/12/nolte.dui/index.html

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 7:56:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

For sleep, melatonin is perfectly natural, safe, and your
brain loves it. It has healing powers on the mind AND body.
You just have to find the perfect dose for yourself. Take
too much and you’ll go into a shadow doze, where you’re
not really asleep. The perfect amount tho will leave you feel very
soothed, relaxed, and well-rested.

Just a note that it isn’t the same for everyone – melatonin
makes me feel like I want to cry under the least amount of
stress the next day, something I’ve never experienced otherwise.
This is with doses ranging from 1/4 to a whole pill (I believe
the pills are 2 or 3 mg).

Bill

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Nick Nolte’s Mugshot
Date: September 13, 2002 at 6:46:25 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <vox@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

We need to see more stars get arrested for drug use to highlight the
problem of prohibition and get more lawmakers seeing that means other than
jail need to be considered. The fact that Nick Nolte got arrested is good
news. I hope this happens more, in Hollywood and around the world. His
mugshot is astoundingly beautiful. Check it out.
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/12/nolte.dui/index.html

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 5:49:12 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina

hi thanks to all the people that emailed me i can do it…i am only taking trazadone and quinine……yesterday i threw all the pills away…today i feel better without them….and Mon i go back to work and that should help too…..the worst is over…thank you karina

Yeah, I wasn’t going to say anything, but I found trazadone really icky. I couldn’t sleep well at all on it. My brain felt like sticky mud. I was going to sit here and suggest you just toss it and see how you sleep, but I didn’t want to interfere with what you’re going thru. Trazadone is gross. Or at least it was for me. For sleep, melatonin is perfectly natural, safe, and your brain loves it. It has healing powers on the mind AND body. You just have to find the perfect dose for yourself. Take too much and you’ll go into a shadow doze, where you’re not really asleep. The perfect amount tho will leave you feel very soothed, relaxed, and well-rested.

chris

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [bruce@iterative.com: [voxadm] What I saw at Ground Zero]
Date: September 13, 2002 at 5:37:00 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

From: “Bruce Fancher” <bruce@iterative.com>
Subject: [voxadm] What I saw at Ground Zero
Date: September 11, 2002 at 3:32:32 PM EDT
To: <voxadm@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: voxadm@mindvox.com

Mitch Mitchelson drove up from North Carolina on a large motorcycle with
a coffin containing a lifesize replica of Osama bin Laden attached to
the back, to be at the former site of the World Trade Center on the one
year anniversary of September 11th.  He originally built the coffin and
the dummy, which he hand-carved out of wood, for a Halloween celebration
of some kind back home.  But he got such a good reception that he
decided it would be worth the trip up to New York City to be present
today with his ersatz Osama.

Judging from the number of reporters and cameras I saw hovering around
Mitch all night, he is about to become somewhat famous.  At least he
might be, depending on whether whoever it is who makes these decisions
at stations around the country use any of the footage their
correspondents filmed of Mitch this morning.

I wouldn’t be surprised if television executives, looking at clips of
white-haired bearded warmly smiling Mitch in his black cowboy hat
standing over a wheeled bullet hole ridden coffin containing a mannequin
in a turban, decide that this particular news item doesn’t fit in with
the somber, respectful, subdued tone of the day.  But down at ground
zero, especially in the early morning hours, when the only people
present were those determined enough to make an all-night vigil, or just
drunk enough to want to hang out in a place where there were some crowds
and excitement, Mitch was a big hit.

But regardless of whether any of Mitch’s television interviews ever see
the light of day, almost every camera at ground zero in the past eight
hours or so spent at least a few minutes pointed at Mitch. ¬†And I don’t
think I’ve ever seen as many cameras in one place in all my life as I
saw at ground zero in the past eight hours.  Vans full of equipment,
cameramen, talking heads, etc. all moving around circling a small strip
of a few blocks on the East side of the site, looking for interesting
interviews and stories among the crowds slowly gathering through the
night, and waiting for the families and the big names to show up for the
daylight ceremonies.

Now, as far as I can tell I was the first person to interview Mitch on
camera.  When I arrived at around 1am this morning, he was sitting on a
blanket leaning against a wall down the block from Church St., which
faces ground zero.  We (my friend Dave was with me) asked Mitch if we
could film him and talk to him about his motorcycle and its attachment.
He agreed and seemed excited to talk to us.  Despite the interruptions
of a drunk who upon seeing the effigy of bin Laden spit in the coffin
and threatened to do worse, the interview went well.  Mitch was
friendly, calm and gracious.  We spoke with him for a few minutes and
then moved on to talk to the other people who had come down early to pay
their respects.

Mitch may have been the most colorful character there who also had a
prayer of making it onto a network news broadcast, but he was far from
the strangest.  That honor would have to go to a man from Pennsylvania
who carried with him a small replica of the twin towers featuring
flashing colored lights, and wandered around recording his somewhat
strange and disconnected observations of the scene into a small tape
recorder.  We found him rather fascinating and fortunately we were able
to speak with, or rather listen to, him at length.  Although he finally
became fatigued and was unable to continue his monologue, he apologized
at length, explaining that he was very tired, not having slept since
1995.

A close second to our friend with the tape recorder was a very nice man
named Kerry, who carried a six foot cross on his back and talked a lot
about God and Jesus. ¬†I don’t remember where Kerry said he flew in from,
but he did tell us that airport security had been very strict that day
and that he had had some trouble getting the cross through the
check-point.  Kerry is either a deeply spiritual and completely
well-adjusted person who has achieved a level of self-actualization
which has led him to want to do service to his fellow man by spreading
the Word, or he is completely out of his fucking mind. ¬†Either way, he’s
another guy who was extensively filmed and photographed who is probably
not going to make it onto the network news shows tonight.

And that’s pretty much what the scene was. ¬†Eccentrics, drunks,
pilgrims, lunatics and journalists.  And a few kids young and stupid
enough to want to spend an entire night sitting around on the streets in
Manhattan.  But, among those present in the early hours this morning,
there was a certain relaxed air of camaraderie and even elation, perhaps
resulting from a lack of sleep.

But as the sun came up and the daylight broke, the scene changed.  More
and more people arrived.  Processions of police, firefighters, family
members, construction workers, bagpipe players filed into the area
towards the site of the ceremony which was to take place.  The police
put up barricades and started blocking access to certain areas and
controlling traffic.  There were too many people to easily find the
familiar faces who had kept us company for the past few hours.

Having been directly affected in numerous ways by the attack a year ago,
I would have liked to have seen the ceremony, but I don’t like being in
crowds on a good day, and we were too exhausted to deal with any of
this.  So we decided to leave.  But I wanted to stop and check in with
Mitch on my way out and see how he was doing.  I walked up to him and
said hi Mitch, how’s it going?, and asked him how many interviews he had
done that night.  Although he had been easygoing and unguarded just a
few hours early, now he seemed to either not remember me, or to have
become more cynical or controlling about giving interviews.  He wanted
me to give him a business card or show him some sort of press
credentials. ¬†I told him I’d go fish them out of my bag and come right
back. ¬†But I’m just a guy with a camera and I don’t have any
credentials, so I just left and went home.

I’m damn tired. ¬†I’m going to bed now.

Bruce

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] ibogaine in Australia?
Date: September 13, 2002 at 5:40:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:37 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] ibogaine in Australia?

‘Organised’ and ‘Nimbin’ are not words that fit into the same sentence
ūüėČ
Nimbin Mardi Grass is a pretty big event, but the interest lies
99.9% in cannabis. There was actually a free ethnobotany event
organised during the Mardi Grass and it was a total flop. The heroin
problem up there fluctuates. The locals aren’t really into heroin,
but many travellers and city folk find this environment less
threatening than where they are from, so they stay – much to the
dismay of the locals. The government doesn’t want to clean up
Nimbin, as it has always been a sore spot for the system and they
feel that heroin is slowly causing the community to selfdestruct.
Nimbin is also close to Byron Bay, the fashionable coastal surf
town. Byron Bay was awash with junkies, however strategic decisions
by police and state government caused most of the junkies to migrate
to Nimbin, thus removing the social problems from their favourite
playground.
There is a herbal highs store in Nimbin who has a lot of educational
material and also access to some of the hard-to-get plant materials.
They would love to do iboga education, but without a reasonably safe
way of obtaining it in australia, they simply don’t want to make
things worse for people.
Don’t know where you get your numbers from, but whoever told you
they had 20,000 this (or last) year had obviously smoked a little
too much ūüėČ

Torsten

I don’t see how it can hurt anything to make the information
available. In our experience, making the info available in reprints
is much more effective than trying to attract stoners to seminars.
What it takes to move people is their ties to some one–a real person
in their lives– who has an addiction problem. Then they remember the
Ibogaine and seek it out. They can always fly to another country.
–Dana/cnw

I totally agree with Dana. I hate it when I hear that line from some people
about, “Oh, don’t tell anyone such and such. They might do something and
get hurt!!!!!! Oh!!!!!!” ¬†I had this guy do that to me when he thought I
was dispensing medical advice about pot. People who speak such lines are
promoting ignorance. “Keep them dumb, so they don’t hurt themselves!” I
believe and will always believe in spreading information. I have faith in
humanity, to do what is best for themselves. And if any poor soul happens
to die because of some information he or she was given, well, then, that
poor soul was destined to fuck himself over anyway. I would blame the
promotion of ignorance on this death. Knowledge is where the power is.
……….By the way, where is Nimbin and Byron Bay? Australia? ¬†I want to
go there and do some shopping. Please print out directions to Nimbin and
mail them to me. Thanks.

chris

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 2:10:56 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey Karina,
SO Glad to see Youre doing well. I know its hellish kicking methadone, but Youve done the most part. I haven`t ever done it w/Ibogaine,but many times other ways. Going back to work will  help w/ the mental  strife, seems like anything to keep the ol` mind busy So take care,                      best regards, larry-

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 12:19:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi thanks to all the people that emailed me i can do it…i am only taking trazadone and quinine……yesterday i threw all the pills away…today i feel better without them….and Mon i go back to work and that should help too…..the worst is over…thank you karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 12:04:43 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hi Chris believe it or not all the emails from people is what got me through and my husband……this is the worst detox ever..but good news i am only taking trazadone for sleep…..and i go back to work on Mon. i still do not feel 100% but maybe when i go back to work i will thank you for your email.karina

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 13, 2002 at 9:55:47 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Good one Karina. ¬†Its a real hard thing to do but it sounds like you’ve got
it sussssed and are winning.   All my best wishes to you.  ===Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Randy Hencken <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Friday, 13 September 2002 13:10
Subject: [ibogaine] Karina

To those of you who have been concerned about Karina,

I spoke with her yesterday and today.  She sounds well.  She is returning
to
work next week and continues to be free from methadone and other opiates.
Way to go Karina!

Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Fw: [Newsroom-L] “Ecstasy not dangerous” headlines were false, says doctor who did study
Date: September 13, 2002 at 10:20:06 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Cc: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Jules Siegel
To: Newsroom-L
Cc: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:00 AM
Subject: [Newsroom-L] “Ecstasy not dangerous” headlines were false, says
doctor who did study

Ecstasy begets empathy
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/09/12/grob_interview/index.html

Psychiatrist and drug researcher Dr. Charles Grob sees value in MDMA — when
it’s taken in therapy, not at a rave.

By Sheerly Avni

[Excerpt]

Sept. 12, 2002 | Last week, an essay in the Psychologist, a magazine
published by the British Psychological Society, called into question the
validity of recent research on the effects of Ecstasy. Its publication drew
loud and immediate reaction from the British press, which printed stories
under headlines like “Ecstasy Not Dangerous, Say Scientists.” The study’s
authors demanded, and received, a retraction from at least one newspaper
(the Guardian); but the question the researchers had hoped to raise —
whether MDMA may have medical benefits — was lost in the din. And not for
the first time, according to Dr. Charles Grob, a longtime researcher of MDMA
and hallucinogenic drugs and one of the study’s three authors.

Grob, the head of adolescent and child psychiatry at the Harbor-UCLA Medical
Center in Southern California, is also the editor of a newly published
collection of essays, “Hallucinogens: A Reader,” which explores the social
and psychological worth of such drugs. Speaking from his office, Grob spoke
about the essay he coauthored, the current war on drugs, and the history of
Ecstasy, which he believes has therapeutic benefit — not to mention
potential as a facilitator of peace in the Middle East.

Q: How did you, and the other authors of the study, end up being described
as Ecstasy advocates in the British and American press?

We never said it wasn’t dangerous. Clearly, Ecstasy use in today’s
recreational drug scene is full of risks. There’s no doubt about that, and
the writer of the specific Guardian article, for example, never bothered to
read our article and never bothered to talk to any of us. They just
sensationalized without any facts behind them.

It looked like a horrible situation when those newspapers published their
articles, but since then there have been corrections. I got ticked off when
I saw the Guardian article. I think it looked like a horrible situation at
first, but instead it has been an opportunity to get more accurate
information about medical applications out there.

Q: You do seem to advocate Ecstasy as a therapeutic tool. What are some of
the drug’s uses in that setting?

I don’t like to use the term “Ecstasy” when I’m talking about medical
applications. Ecstasy could be anything. It’s a terrible, terrible term. And
by the way, do you know how the name came about?

Q: No. How?

By the late ’70s, it was being used by underground therapists, mostly on the
West Coast. By the early ’80s, when the secret had gotten out, there was a
small but growing recreational drug scene in Austin [Texas] and California,
and an enterprising dealer decided there was money to be made. He decided to
market it under its most salient feature.

The most salient feature of MDMA is actually empathy. Which is, of course,
why it’s so alluring to psychotherapists, because empathy between a patient
and a therapist is one of the strongest positive predictive outcome measures
you could have, right?

So here’s this guy, he’s trying to sell this drug, and it’s not selling
because people who buy drugs don’t particularly care for or understand
empathy. So he goes back to the drawing board and decides, “I need a better
name, one that will grab people’s attention.” So that’s how Ecstasy got its
name.

Q: How did you first become interested in MDMA as a potential therapeutic
tool?

I had written some articles on hallucinogens, and I thought it was a shame
that psychiatry had abandoned research in the area. I started hearing
anecdotal accounts about MDMA, so I thought this might be a more accessible
area to study.

Ecstasy didn’t have the hype at that point, in the mid-’80s, that
hallucinogens had, and it perhaps had some advantages over a drug like LSD,
in that it was milder, easier to control, and facilitated introspection and
articulating feelings. It appeared to be effective on people who were
alexithymic — you know what alexithymic means? It means “without words for
feelings.” [In “The Sopranos,” Tony Soprano is diagnosed as alexithymic,
among other things.]

Q: In other words, people like men?

[Laughs.] Right — engineers. People who just could not connect to the
feeling states, who were just cut off from their emotional processes, seemed
[under the influence of Ecstasy] suddenly able to access those states and
put them into words. And it was thought to be very helpful for relationship
therapies.


JULES SIEGEL Apdo. 1764, 77501 Cancun Q. Roo Mexico
http://www.cafecancun.com

For free and ample discussion of issues in the news subscribe to Newsroom-L
http://ohio.stageserver.net/mailman/listinfo/newsroom-l_cafecancun.com

_______________________________________________
Newsroom-l mailing list
Newsroom-l@cafecancun.com
http://ohio.stageserver.net/mailman/listinfo/newsroom-l_cafecancun.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush’s Mugshot
Date: September 13, 2002 at 7:32:20 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Cc: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As much as I can’t stand her Dad and Uncle and Granddad, I keep finding myself looking at this photo and putting myself in her shoes. Major bummer, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst…well, perhaps on my very worst enemy, but I can’t think who that might be.
Especially after seeing that other photo of her laughing and smiling, seemingly happy.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: ElGrekkko
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com ; drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 11:07 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush’s Mugshot

ūüôā

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail Be nice Kove all
Date: September 12, 2002 at 6:12:48 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To Nicholas … ¬†¬†Was your messge a response to me. ¬†¬†¬†The message you refer
to about having 2 million etc. has nothing to do with me.  The mail seems to
be a bit disjointed somewhere along the line    I would love to have had 2
ml that I never have had,    Can think of lots of things I could do with it
but unfortunately I’ve never had that sort of money. ¬†¬†Perhaps you were
citing another message not mine and I got mixed up but would be good to
clear it up   Thanks   Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Thursday, 12 September 2002 04:08
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail Be nice Kove all

LOOK-= it is very nice that you had 2 million 2 years ago and  it
sucks your bankrupt now. But i believe in Karma aybe there is a
reason you are bankrupt besides the easy to see ones(reasons).Look
there is no need to take your anger out online mit is only hurting
yourself more look  I dont know you but i bet there is a very warm
side to you let that shine and you will be blessed.I run a
successful buisness.People want to make what i do ilklegal and it
probably will one day but the point is i did not get rich quick it
came slow and im worked hard and sometimes i woould not take money
as payment but i also couldnt let my buisness go down but i have a
reputation now its a good rep. and people will sometimes give me a
tip thats more than the service but i take thAT MONEY PAY MY
EXPENSIZS AND THE REST IM NPUT A SIDE TO HELP PEOPLE .i am not
better than anyone  and none is better than me  butt the difference
is i will try my hardest to be nice to man and animals  especially
little cute fury aanimals that go roof roof or meowww! cuz i like
snuggle uggle uggles! they are so damn cute
— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I just wanted to say that my partner and I don’t live off a trust
fund, we
don’t live off stuff grown out the back of our shed or whatever.
We run a
painting business and our biggest silly mistake has been spending
so much
money on drugs in the past which is why we have nothing to show
for all our
years of work and why we are trying to do different. Perhaps I
missed the
message about gas ovens etc. cos I didn’t read it. ¬†¬†I know
companies and
corporates are all out there to earn money and profits but I still
reckon
there need to be some ethical rules and regulations set in place
and upheld
or there would be chaos.  You only have to look back to the 2nd
world war
and Hitler to see an example and I would have hoped people would
have
learned a bit and advanced a bit more in the years since then.
Maybe its a
lost hope but if you don’t have that, what do you have.
No wonder so many people want to opt out if life is so
cynical……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Rebecca Silverman <becca_vail@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 06:49
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

I have to agree with this. I laughed but out of a really angry
message that
wound up with visions of american companies building better gas
ovens that
person skipped all of it and didn’t even notice anything except
the half a
sentence that related to dot.com being a pyramid scheme ūüôā Do
you protest
too much? ūüôā

Patrick what’s the problem with some of the lists? The solutions
sound
great
except the last paragraph ūüėČ But who is doing what to disrupt
what list?

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:27:23 -0700 (PDT)

I don’t want to take away anything from what you’ve
said, I don’t know what a AMT is but it sounds like a
lousy deal.

What I found most interesting is just how everyone
only sees what relates to them. You picked two or
three words out of his entire message and went off.
Completely ignoring what he was really saying, which
wasn’t very nice, but it’s interesting ūüôā

Carla B

— Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com> wrote:

LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.

I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
SMOKE CRACK.

I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS
WORTH
OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.

EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY,
I
AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST
READ
HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED
I
OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER
HAD.

THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL
WANT
MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
NEXT 30 YEARS.

ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
MOVE
TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
THEMSELVES
OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.

FUCK YOU IDIOT.

SSSSSSSL8Z
2 EL8 4 EWE

— ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I read this list but don’t reply very often
because
I have the sense that there isn’t a point to
saying
most of what I really think. I signed up here
because of Mindvox and found by accident that
ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
most of you here fall into one of two categories,
either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
things you grow in your garden in the back of your
shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
purpose will get you sued by some of the
shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
making more money. They invested, they didn’t
donate
money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high
tech
companies jumping all over each other to get in
line
to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
should surprise nobody. If the United States
decides
next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
then there will be no shortage of companies lining
up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the
gas
ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas
ovens,
grease the zoning problems that will come up
because
of the gas ovens and write software to control the
gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
save the world or make it a better place. Anything
else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run
a
big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush’s Mugshot
Date: September 12, 2002 at 11:07:39 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>, <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ūüôā

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 12, 2002 at 9:35:29 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina

the worst is over but i still have insomnia and weak¬† i was taking pills also…..so it’s been 2 months i still feel like shit i would like to know when it will get better…….but i will not give in..this is the worst and longest withdrawal ever…karina

Well, it will get better. You don’t know when, but the human body will heal itself. I’d smoke a bunch of weed, like tons of it, and drink beer, but this might not be what the doctor ordered for you. Also, all this good will people are sending you works, whether you can feel it or not. It’s there, affecting you. I’ll send you a little blast as soon as I post this. You know what doesn’t kill yiou makes you stronger, right? I know that’s a stupid thing to say, but ..whatever. People just want to make you feel better, that’s all.

chris
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 12, 2002 at 9:27:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

the worst is over but i still have insomnia and weak¬† i was taking pills also…..so it’s been 2 months i still feel like shit i would like to know when it will get better…….but i will not give in..this is the worst and longest withdrawal ever…karina

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 12, 2002 at 9:23:36 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

How long does the pain last? There is an end to it, within about a week, right? I would pray the whole time. No, that wouldn’t lessen it, but it’d do something.

—– Original Message —–
From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina

thanks Randy..this was the worst withdrawls ever i still do not feel right weak,insomnia…..but i am doing it………hate it but doing it anyways…..ur friend karina

From: Mzzthangg13@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 12, 2002 at 9:20:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

thanks Randy..this was the worst withdrawls ever i still do not feel right weak,insomnia…..but i am doing it………hate it but doing it anyways…..ur friend karina

From: “Randy Hencken” <randyhencken@hotmail.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Karina
Date: September 12, 2002 at 9:10:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

To those of you who have been concerned about Karina,

I spoke with her yesterday and today.  She sounds well.  She is returning to work next week and continues to be free from methadone and other opiates.  Way to go Karina!

Randy

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] (no subject)
Date: September 12, 2002 at 8:13:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey MS,

Ustanova has made several important points, all valid. Here are some more:

Make sure you have an experienced person [experienced with ibogaine, CPR and
addiction] to guide you through the experience. Read as much as you can about
ibogaine at www.ibogaine.org and the sites linked from there. Educate yourself.

A nice solid aftercare/follow-up plan is important, as Ibogaine is not a “cure”
-it is the begining steps of a lifetime of freedom from the chains of
addiction, if you are willing to work at it afterwards. This generally means
finding something healthy to focus on and GO FOR IT! be easy on yourself. eat
healthy foods. excercise. get out into nature. embrace life. Consider therapy
or support groups for a while.

Try not to have any expectations about the experience, and be pure in your
intentions. Some people write about their intentions and goals to solidify
them. I suggest you try that.

Depending on the type of ibo (HCL or Indra) and dose amount, coming off of
80mgs shouldn’t be a problem. Of course lowering your dose slowly untill
treatment time comes would help, but don’t push yourself.

I personally went from heroin/cocaine to methadone maintenence and finally to
Ibogaine, so it is do-able.

there is another ibogaine mailing list you can join:
send e-mail to: subscribe-ibogaine@mindvox.com -there is generally more action
on that list.

Be well,

-Gamma

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi MS,

please tell us what kind of Ibo will you be taking (HCl, Indra,
rootbark…) and what’s your weight and how long have you been using and
other basic stuff.

80 mg of Meth is quite a lot. I advise you to cut down as much as you can
(and a bit more – I mean less ūüėČ And don’t forget that Ibogaine
potentiates opiates, so be in withdrawal when you take it! Don’t worry,
when Ibogaine starts to “work”, all withdrawals will go away!

Don’t try to force Ibogaine to do something for you – this is like being in
the very fast river, trying to swim against the current. You just uselessly
drain your energy. But if you swim with the current, then you can stay in
the middle of the river, or swim to the left or to the right… and enjoy
what you see ;-))

Re: painless; you might have pain in legs and/or back, but this pain is
manageable. And it disappears within days. Don’t take painkillers, they
usually don’t work… or work in the direction of re-addiction.

Ibogaine gives you a LOT, but you have to do something yourself, too.

Hope this helps a bit,

Marko

At 22:06 12.9.2002, you wrote:

I’m going to be taking ibogaine for the first time in October. ¬†I’ve
recently switched from heroin to methadone in an effort to keep myself
alive and out of jail until I do the ibogaine. ¬†I’m at 80mg of
methadone.  Is it really going to be a relatively painless
withdrawal?  And what I am in for as far as the experience of ibogaine
itself?  Any replies will be appreciated.  -MS

———-
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re dark alliance type stuff
Date: September 12, 2002 at 3:21:50 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Rick Venglarcik <RickV@hnncsb.org> wrote:

Not to mention, who wants to publish a report with the possibility of
his or her coming to a tragic end as ¬†a victim of “random” violence.

I always wonder what happened to that guy from the San Jose Mercury News…
what’s he up to these days? [Gary Webb]

Google search: interesting follow-up [but 5 years old now]:

http://www.radio4all.org/crackcia/sjmn.html
and:
http://www.radio4all.org/expert/webb.html

and Gary’s announcement a couple days ago:
http://www.counterpunch.org/webb0906.html

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! News – Today’s headlines
http://news.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [IBOGAINE] ibogaine in Australia?
Date: September 11, 2002 at 6:37:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@lists.calyx.nl
Cc: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

‘Organised’ and ‘Nimbin’ are not words that fit into the same sentence ūüėČ
Nimbin Mardi Grass is a pretty big event, but the interest lies
99.9% in cannabis. There was actually a free ethnobotany event
organised during the Mardi Grass and it was a total flop. The heroin
problem up there fluctuates. The locals aren’t really into heroin,
but many travellers and city folk find this environment less
threatening than where they are from, so they stay – much to the
dismay of the locals. The government doesn’t want to clean up
Nimbin, as it has always been a sore spot for the system and they
feel that heroin is slowly causing the community to selfdestruct.
Nimbin is also close to Byron Bay, the fashionable coastal surf
town. Byron Bay was awash with junkies, however strategic decisions
by police and state government caused most of the junkies to migrate
to Nimbin, thus removing the social problems from their favourite
playground.
There is a herbal highs store in Nimbin who has a lot of educational
material and also access to some of the hard-to-get plant materials.
They would love to do iboga education, but without a reasonably safe
way of obtaining it in australia, they simply don’t want to make
things worse for people.
Don’t know where you get your numbers from, but whoever told you
they had 20,000 this (or last) year had obviously smoked a little
too much ūüėČ

Torsten

I don’t see how it can hurt anything to make the information
available. In our experience, making the info available in reprints
is much more effective than trying to attract stoners to seminars.
What it takes to move people is their ties to some one–a real person
in their lives– who has an addiction problem. Then they remember the
Ibogaine and seek it out. They can always fly to another country.
–Dana/cnw

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Microsoft says it’s Your Fault
Date: September 11, 2002 at 2:59:24 PM EDT
To: vox@mindvox.com, ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

2002/09/10 06:56:37 ET

Microsoft says It’s your fault.

——————————————————————————–
According to a report issued yesterday, Microsoft
blames users for the recent upsurge in attacks on
Windows servers.

According to Microsoft’s PSS Security Team the problem
is you. Yes, you! If you use Microsoft Windows
servers, and don’t install the latest patches or
disable default accounts, and set passwords, then it’s
your fault this is happening and not theirs.

In a report published on Microsoft’s web site, the PSS
Security team announced that this wave of break-ins is
not a product security vulnerability, nor is it a worm
or virus as some had originally speculated.

According to Microsoft, “The attacks seek to take
advantage of situations where standard precautions
have not been taken…”

So we want all of you Microsoft Windows server admins
to get busy, install all the latest patches, and wait
for further instructions from Redmond. Fearless Leader
Has Spoken

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush busted for crack
Date: September 11, 2002 at 2:22:59 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63543-2002Sep10.html

She wasn’t busted for smoking crack, she was caught with crack in her shoe
in the treatment center to which she is currently assigned by a court order.

It would be nice if Jeb Bush had a Michael Douglas moment a-la “Traffic,”
but I’m not holding my breath.

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Vector Vector” <vector620022002@yahoo.com>

I’m sure this is online somewhere and I heard it on TV
while watching the news last night. Noelle Bush was
busted for smoking crack yesterday.

.:vector:.

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush busted for crack
Date: September 11, 2002 at 1:54:44 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, lets see the ZERO TOLERANCE and MANDATORY
MINIMUMS. Remember it was that much more dangerous
CRACK and not the much less dangerous powder…

Really, she should get what the rest of us SHOULD get
or WOULD get, but that ain’t gonna happen EITHER WAY.
Bet she gets a quick and speedy trial too, while Jeb
is still in office (thanks Noelle…).

Brett
— Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com> wrote:

I’m sure this is online somewhere and I heard it on
TV
while watching the news last night. Noelle Bush was
busted for smoking crack yesterday.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush busted for crack
Date: September 11, 2002 at 1:43:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I can`t say exactly how it makes Me feel to hear  noelle bush got jammed for smoking crack.. And then, same day I`m reading how Canada is easing up on grass     laws up there.. Its too much sometimes, I`d like to hear how the list-members feel about these paradoxes
larry-

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Noelle Bush busted for crack
Date: September 11, 2002 at 1:05:42 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sure this is online somewhere and I heard it on TV
while watching the news last night. Noelle Bush was
busted for smoking crack yesterday.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail Be nice Kove all
Date: September 11, 2002 at 12:06:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LOOK-= it is very nice that you had 2 million 2 years ago and  it
sucks your bankrupt now. But i believe in Karma aybe there is a
reason you are bankrupt besides the easy to see ones(reasons).Look
there is no need to take your anger out online mit is only hurting
yourself more look  I dont know you but i bet there is a very warm
side to you let that shine and you will be blessed.I run a
successful buisness.People want to make what i do ilklegal and it
probably will one day but the point is i did not get rich quick it
came slow and im worked hard and sometimes i woould not take money
as payment but i also couldnt let my buisness go down but i have a
reputation now its a good rep. and people will sometimes give me a
tip thats more than the service but i take thAT MONEY PAY MY
EXPENSIZS AND THE REST IM NPUT A SIDE TO HELP PEOPLE .i am not
better than anyone  and none is better than me  butt the difference
is i will try my hardest to be nice to man and animals  especially
little cute fury aanimals that go roof roof or meowww! cuz i like
snuggle uggle uggles! they are so damn cute
— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I just wanted to say that my partner and I don’t live off a trust
fund, we
don’t live off stuff grown out the back of our shed or whatever.
We run a
painting business and our biggest silly mistake has been spending
so much
money on drugs in the past which is why we have nothing to show
for all our
years of work and why we are trying to do different. Perhaps I
missed the
message about gas ovens etc. cos I didn’t read it. ¬†¬†I know
companies and
corporates are all out there to earn money and profits but I still
reckon
there need to be some ethical rules and regulations set in place
and upheld
or there would be chaos.  You only have to look back to the 2nd
world war
and Hitler to see an example and I would have hoped people would
have
learned a bit and advanced a bit more in the years since then.
Maybe its a
lost hope but if you don’t have that, what do you have.
No wonder so many people want to opt out if life is so
cynical……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Rebecca Silverman <becca_vail@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 06:49
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

I have to agree with this. I laughed but out of a really angry
message that
wound up with visions of american companies building better gas
ovens that
person skipped all of it and didn’t even notice anything except
the half a
sentence that related to dot.com being a pyramid scheme ūüôā Do
you protest
too much? ūüôā

Patrick what’s the problem with some of the lists? The solutions
sound
great
except the last paragraph ūüėČ But who is doing what to disrupt
what list?

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:27:23 -0700 (PDT)

I don’t want to take away anything from what you’ve
said, I don’t know what a AMT is but it sounds like a
lousy deal.

What I found most interesting is just how everyone
only sees what relates to them. You picked two or
three words out of his entire message and went off.
Completely ignoring what he was really saying, which
wasn’t very nice, but it’s interesting ūüôā

Carla B

— Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com> wrote:

LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.

I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
SMOKE CRACK.

I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS
WORTH
OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.

EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY,
I
AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST
READ
HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED
I
OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER
HAD.

THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL
WANT
MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
NEXT 30 YEARS.

ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
MOVE
TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
THEMSELVES
OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.

FUCK YOU IDIOT.

SSSSSSSL8Z
2 EL8 4 EWE

— ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I read this list but don’t reply very often
because
I have the sense that there isn’t a point to
saying
most of what I really think. I signed up here
because of Mindvox and found by accident that
ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
most of you here fall into one of two categories,
either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
things you grow in your garden in the back of your
shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
purpose will get you sued by some of the
shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
making more money. They invested, they didn’t
donate
money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high
tech
companies jumping all over each other to get in
line
to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
should surprise nobody. If the United States
decides
next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
then there will be no shortage of companies lining
up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the
gas
ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas
ovens,
grease the zoning problems that will come up
because
of the gas ovens and write software to control the
gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
save the world or make it a better place. Anything
else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run
a
big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure. [!]
Date: September 11, 2002 at 10:09:09 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I expect that it would be a real eye-opener.  I know 2 or 3 folks who
are supervisory personnel who would test positive for one or more
illicit substances.  I forget the actual numbers, but I recall that in
the first year, the rate of positives compared to the national avg. for
workplace testing was only about 25% of what would be expected.  The
board of directors interpreted this as proof of an effective
policy…”it helps to reduce drug use,”…”it seems clear that we are
not beset by the sort of SA problems that are typical in other
companies.” ¬†I was amazed at the amount of stupidity that could
aggragate in one room.  Seemed pretty clear to me that the testing
procedure…unobserved screens…simply resulted in diversionary
tactics.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz 09/11/02 06:10AM >>>
Doing UA tests for the groups mentioned could probably be a real
eye-opener
or a can or worms.   Would be very interesting though.    Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 09:55
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure. [!]

The policy also only applied to the peons…not management staff,
or
people who handle the money…”Safety Sensitive” positions. ¬†They
did
decrease the percentage to 10% per quarter, but non-safety
sensitive
folks are still excluded.  In the past 3-4 years, this is the second
one
I have gotten. ¬†It’s a Board of directors thing…with the majority
of
box-thinking grunts being supportive of drug screens.  The
management
team, as a majority is against them.  The CEO pays greater heed to
the
Board.

Gee, you’d think if testing was occuring at all they would certainly
test
the
“Saftey Sensitive” positions as well [people handling money? -don’t
want
them
siphoning off the ol’dolophine..].

As I recall, you work at a methadone clinic? I can’t feel but a hint
of
satisfaction at clinic employees having random tests, only because I
was
subject to well over a hundred UA’s while I was on the program.
resulting
in
either take-homes being granted or revoked, pending the outcome of the
UA,
regardless of registered prescription medicines. Which fruther
affected my
personal life not mention a certain level of dignity. Even being
refused a
dose
when I couldn’t piss in time for the end of dosing hours, which gave
me a
record of a missed dose which eliminated my lousy 1 day a week take
home
status
that I worked 6 months for. Sigh, I am grateful not to still be
standing in
that line. [yet metahdone & ibogaine saved my life]

In any event, ultimately I am against ANYbody obligating ANYone to
random
Urinalisis Tests. Gestapo Tactics, another sign of our civil
liberties
being
etched away in this brave new world.

-gamma

p.s. I wonder what kind of results we’d see if we UA’d the white
house, the
senate and congress, not to mention various law enforcement agencies,
military
groups and religious leaders.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”
Date: September 11, 2002 at 9:49:54 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Apparently in bars in Amsterdam you can submit your tablet for a check to tell you what is in it and if its OK.  I think there was some talk of doing something similar in Britain but the politicians argued that it would encourage drug use.   Anyone else got any ideas on that line???? <

Dance-Safe has been doing this for a while, but they don’t have that easy a time of it here in the US either.
http://www.dancesafe.org/
I myself am fully behind this group and their efforts to reduce the harms associated with prohibition and drug use. Don’t suppose that surprises anyone here that much.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Alison Senepart
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”

I’ve just read all Prestons info.¬†¬† The only thing about ecstasy that I find scary is that people are not sure what they are buying, where it was made and whats in it.¬† There have been so many reports of people taking so called ecstasy that is nothing like ecstasy and others taking mixtures of different chemicals and agents to bulk their so called product up.¬†¬† Apparently in bars in Amsterdam you can submit your tablet for a check to tell you what is in it and if its OK.¬† I think there was some talk of doing something similar in Britain but the politicians argued that it would encourage drug use.¬†¬† Anyone else got any ideas on that line????¬†¬†¬† Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 01:31
Subject: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”

>However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp<

And here are some of the problems with these not quite so clear cut as they are made out to be scans:

http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg03613.html
New Scientist Feature on MDMA (repost of yesterday, but longer snip)

snip->In 1998, however, the case against ecstasy took a dramatic new turn.
Ricaurle’s team published a paper in The Lancet reporting what looked to be
lasting brain damage in people who use ecstasy.  This time the evidence was
from a PET brain scanning study and seemed clear-cut.  Where scans of control
subjects were alive with colour, those of ecstasy users looked dull and
dark.¬† Ecstasy “injures brain for life”, declared one of many startling
newspaper headlines.

The study involved injecting 14 people who’d used ecstasy on average more
than 100 times with chemical probes designed to stick to the serotonin
transporter proteins that ecstasy targets.  Wherever the probes end up they
give off a detectable but safe radioactive glow.  If ecstasy destroys
serotonin synapses and fibres, the reasoning went, there ought to be fewer
transporters for the probe to find in these damaged brains, and they ought to
glow less.  Sure enough, the brains of the ecstasy users did on average glow
less than those of control subjects.

At the time, not every expert was convinced this deficiency was evidence of
longterm damage by ecstasy.  The drug users used lots of substances and the
researchers reported no urine or saliva tests to prove they were drug-free at
the time of the scan.  Some critics even suggested the subjects could have
been naturally deficient in serotonin synapses.  But as it was impossible to
prove these alternative explanations, the bleaker view of the brain scans
took hold.

Soon the scans were at the centre of the US government’s campaign on the
dangers of club drugs and featuring in TV documentaries.  The scans also
featured prominently in the official report by the US Sentencing Commission
that last year led to longer prison sentences for ecstasy offences.  The
brains scans, it claimed, showed “that users had a significantly reduced
number of serotonin transporters throughout the brain”.

And soon too other brain-imaging teams were attempting to build on the 1998
finding.  A year later, researchers from the Royal Edinburgh Hospital in
Scotland also published a paper claiming that regular ecstasy users have
fewer serotonin transporters in the brain-further evidence, they concluded,
of the drug’s “neurotoxicity”.

More recently, a team led by Liesbeth Reneman and Gerard den Heeten of the
Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam wanted to find out if heavier users of
ecstasy lose more serotonin synapses than lighter users.  To this end, they
scanned the brains of four groups: moderate users of ecstasy who claimed to
have taken no more than SO tablets in their lifetime; heavy users who claimed
to have taken hundreds; heavy users who claimed to have abstained for at
least a year; and a control group.¬† “Our results,” the team concluded in a
paper published last year in The Lancet, “indicate that women could be more
susceptible than men to the neurotoxic effects of MDMA”.

It was another worrying finding that on the face of it seemed to back up the
crucial 1998 study.  Except that on close inspection, there were
discrepancies and contradictions.  This time, the male ecstasy brains in the
study lit up just as much as the control brains, and it was only after
analysing the female brains separately from the male brains that the
researchers found anything different about some of the women.  The brains of
the heavy female users, it turned out, did light up less than those of the
moderate female users and female controls.¬† Yet even these “damaged” female
brains performed no worse than the brains of the supposedly healthy male
non-users.

It’s a confusing picture, so New Scientist asked some leading independent
scientists to look at the evidence afresh.  What we learned was that the
probes used in the scanning studies have serious deficiencies and that
despite the poster depiction of “your brain on ecstasy”, there never was-and
never has been — a typical scan showing the typical brain of a long-term
ecstasy user.

“There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users,” says Stephen Kish, a
neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto.¬† “And if
anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any brain
damage, it’s impossible to get one from these papers.” Marc Laruelle, a
Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: “All the papers
have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy.”

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer
variability of the measurements.  Some control brains performed up to 40
times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone
control brains by factors of 10 or more — a level of scatter that both
experts say is unprecedented in this type of study.  According to Kish, the
huge variations seen even in the healthy controls are a sure sign that the
probe failed to give precise and reliable measurements.¬† It’s taken years for
the problem to surface, says Kish, because the full range of the scatter is
obscured in the original paper by the unusual way the researchers analysed
their findings, converting the raw brain scan measurements into logarithms
before plotting them out.

So why the unreliability? Laruelle says the probes used in all the ecstasy
brain scan studies don’t always stick just to serotonin transporters and
should therefore only be used in certain brain areas.  In recent years, his
team has established that only the midbrain, thalamus and striatum have
enough serotonin transporters to give reliable readings.  None of the ecstasy
studies focused exclusively on these structures.  The Edinburgh team looked
only at the cerebral cortex.

Ricaurte rejects the criticism.¬† “Variability in the data would lessen our
ability to detect differences between groups and, potentially, lea to an
underestimation of differences between MDMA users and controls,” he told New
Scientist.¬† “The fact that significant differences were found speaks for
itself.”

When it comes down to it, what brains look like in a scanner shouldn’t matter
as much as whether ecstasy has any noticeable long-term effect on the way
people think, feel and act.¬† So does it? There’s certainly been a rash of
papers in psychology journals suggesting ecstasy users have poorer memories
and mental reflexes than nonusers.  And some of the conclusions make
disturbing reading.¬† In one typical study, ecstasy users “showed
significantly poorer verbal fluency and immediate and delayed recall”.¬† In
another, they were “worse on a sustained attention task requiring arithmetic
calculations, a task requiring short-term memory and a task of semantic
recognition and verbal reasoning”.¬† Last year one British team even equated
such symptoms with those seen early on in Alzheimer’s disease.

Yet take a closer look and, as with the brain scans, the evidence is not as
clear-cut as it sounds.  For a start, in the majority of tests of mental
agility, ecstasy users perform just as well as non-users.  Their reaction
times, visual memories and ability to concentrate all come out looking
normalsometimes better than normal.

In one study, psychologist Andrew Parrott of the University of East London
and his team found ecstasy users outperforming non-users in tests requiring
them to rotate complex shapes in their mind’s eye.¬† Ecstasy users also had
the edge on non-users when it came to searching a series of virtual rooms on
a computer screen to find a small red toy car.  Afterwards, says Parrott, the
ecstasy users were better at answering questions about the shapes of the
rooms and the positions of their doors.

Where ecstasy users do seem to perform worse is in learning new verbal
information.  In tests where people are given lists of words and then asked
to recall them later, a group of non-users might score an average of, say, 10
out of 15, while a group of ecstasy users of the same age and social
background might get 8.  According to Parrott, who published the first
finding of this type in 1998, ecstasy users are also slower on average to
improve when the test is repeated.  But their performance still lies well
within the spectrum of what counts as normal.

In other words, whatever ecstasy’s cognitive effects may be, they are
subtle.¬† So subtle that some experts think it’s jumping the gun to blame
ecstasy when most users of the drug take many other substances.  A team at
Imperial College Medical School in London recently tested three different
groups for recall, word fluency and speed of thought.  One used no drugs,
another just cannabis, and the third both ecstasy and cannabis.  On average,
the “no drugs” group performed the best.¬† But the “just cannabis” people
scored no better than those who used ecstasy and cannabis.  So is cannabisa
drug people often smoke to “come down” from an ecstasy high-the real problem?

Or are scientists worrying about a cognitive impairment that just isn’t
there? It’s an open secret that some teams have failed to find deficits in
ecstasy users and had trouble publishing the findings.¬† “The journals are
very conservative,” says Parrott.¬† “It’s a source of bias.” Parrott himself
has had two papers of this sort turned down.

But is any of this a reason to dilute the ecstasy health warnings ? Surely if
there are any suspicions at all, governments and scientists should make the
strongest possible statements about risk.  Perhaps.  But some in the field
feel this approach carries a risk of its own.  If people think the health
warnings are exaggerated or at odds with their own experience of the drug,
the authorities risk losing credibility, and with it their chance to educate
anyone about drugs.

Kish says many of the ecstasy users he interacts with already consider the
brain scans to be “simply unbelievable”.¬† Harry Sumnall, who studies ecstasy
users at the University of Liverpool, fears that by prematurely highlighting
the drug as especially dangerous, psychologists and the media risk giving out
the false message that “as long as you stay away from E, you’ll be fine”.

The situation isn’t helped by the impression that double standards are at
work, with one set of rules for prescription drugs and much stricter rules
for drugs used illicitly.

While scores of studies have looked for evidence of biochemical changes in
the brains of animals and people exposed to ecstasy, only a handful have
looked for anything similar in brains exposed to antidepressants and other
prescribed agents that act on the serotonin transporter.  And when scientists
do scrutinise such drugs, officials don’t jump so readily to alarming
conclusions.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Holes in the brain

Perhaps a little clarification on the terminology would help.  What
exactly are you referring to when you talk about “holes” in the brain?
Assuredly, addicts aren’t walking around with large pieces of brain that
have shriveled up and died.  However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] E-Testing; Alison asking what we think
Date: September 11, 2002 at 8:31:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Maybe if people are aware that e-testing is out there and being practiced it might keep them more honest do you think???¬†¬† Also is it really that easy to test pills at a stall in a market.¬†¬† I know I must sound naive but I thought it would take sophisticated gear and facilities etc.¬†¬† Shows how much I know……Allison

—–Original Message—–
From: AndriaE@aol.com <AndriaE@aol.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 23:10
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] E-Testing; Alison asking what we think

Dear Alison et al!

There are increasing nos of countries in Europe who are either openly, or clandestinely doing testing kits for people at events, or elsewhere
I think it is a good idea, and it also encourages the drug user to take drugs in a responsible fashion.
I worked for 5 hrs on a stall at a festival yrs ago testing pills; it”s not great being the bringer of bad tidings but I noticed that of the 20 or so I tested, there were only a small handful that were dud.

This is true harm reduction in essence.

I think there are a no of us who PREACH Harm Red, but are not so good at practising it – I can certainly raise my hand to that charge. Otoh, this e-testing gets both tester and user to THINK more about their use and drugs in general and I like that – it engenerd more safety. As each couple came to have their pill tested, we talked about drugs and policy and safer use and many other things. I found that most were just interested in finding out that their pill was safe but some took DPReform literature and read it as they walked away

Every Opportunity need sto be taken if this war on drug users is going to be ended.

With love and Solidarity

andria

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure. [!]
Date: September 11, 2002 at 6:10:52 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Doing UA tests for the groups mentioned could probably be a real eye-opener
or a can or worms.   Would be very interesting though.    Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 09:55
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure. [!]

The policy also only applied to the peons…not management staff, or
people who handle the money…”Safety Sensitive” positions. ¬†They did
decrease the percentage to 10% per quarter, but non-safety sensitive
folks are still excluded.  In the past 3-4 years, this is the second one
I have gotten. ¬†It’s a Board of directors thing…with the majority of
box-thinking grunts being supportive of drug screens.  The management
team, as a majority is against them.  The CEO pays greater heed to the
Board.

Gee, you’d think if testing was occuring at all they would certainly test
the
“Saftey Sensitive” positions as well [people handling money? -don’t want
them
siphoning off the ol’dolophine..].

As I recall, you work at a methadone clinic? I can’t feel but a hint of
satisfaction at clinic employees having random tests, only because I was
subject to well over a hundred UA’s while I was on the program. resulting
in
either take-homes being granted or revoked, pending the outcome of the UA,
regardless of registered prescription medicines. Which fruther affected my
personal life not mention a certain level of dignity. Even being refused a
dose
when I couldn’t piss in time for the end of dosing hours, which gave me a
record of a missed dose which eliminated my lousy 1 day a week take home
status
that I worked 6 months for. Sigh, I am grateful not to still be standing in
that line. [yet metahdone & ibogaine saved my life]

In any event, ultimately I am against ANYbody obligating ANYone to random
Urinalisis Tests. Gestapo Tactics, another sign of our civil liberties
being
etched away in this brave new world.

-gamma

p.s. I wonder what kind of results we’d see if we UA’d the white house, the
senate and congress, not to mention various law enforcement agencies,
military
groups and religious leaders.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine]E-testing in Britain
Date: September 11, 2002 at 7:12:04 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Is no officiated to some degree Alison, as last yr the govt issued an official doc to make clubs more safe for the ravers and this meant allowing some testing also; it’s not legal as such but unless u get a creep of a bouncer, u r unlikely to get in trouble for it
Andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] E-Testing; Alison asking what we think
Date: September 11, 2002 at 7:09:43 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dear Alison et al!

There are increasing nos of countries in Europe who are either openly, or clandestinely doing testing kits for people at events, or elsewhere
I think it is a good idea, and it also encourages the drug user to take drugs in a responsible fashion.
I worked for 5 hrs on a stall at a festival yrs ago testing pills; it”s not great being the bringer of bad tidings but I noticed that of the 20 or so I tested, there were only a small handful that were dud.

This is true harm reduction in essence.

I think there are a no of us who PREACH Harm Red, but are not so good at practising it – I can certainly raise my hand to that charge. Otoh, this e-testing gets both tester and user to THINK more about their use and drugs in general and I like that – it engenerd more safety. As each couple came to have their pill tested, we talked about drugs and policy and safer use and many other things. I found that most were just interested in finding out that their pill was safe but some took DPReform literature and read it as they walked away

Every Opportunity need sto be taken if this war on drug users is going to be ended.

With love and Solidarity

andria

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”
Date: September 11, 2002 at 5:59:30 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’ve just read all Prestons info.¬†¬† The only thing about ecstasy that I find scary is that people are not sure what they are buying, where it was made and whats in it.¬† There have been so many reports of people taking so called ecstasy that is nothing like ecstasy and others taking mixtures of different chemicals and agents to bulk their so called product up.¬†¬† Apparently in bars in Amsterdam you can submit your tablet for a check to tell you what is in it and if its OK.¬† I think there was some talk of doing something similar in Britain but the politicians argued that it would encourage drug use.¬†¬† Anyone else got any ideas on that line????¬†¬†¬† Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 01:31
Subject: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”

>However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp<

And here are some of the problems with these not quite so clear cut as they are made out to be scans:

http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg03613.html
New Scientist Feature on MDMA (repost of yesterday, but longer snip)

snip->In 1998, however, the case against ecstasy took a dramatic new turn.
Ricaurle’s team published a paper in The Lancet reporting what looked to be
lasting brain damage in people who use ecstasy.  This time the evidence was
from a PET brain scanning study and seemed clear-cut.  Where scans of control
subjects were alive with colour, those of ecstasy users looked dull and
dark.¬† Ecstasy “injures brain for life”, declared one of many startling
newspaper headlines.

The study involved injecting 14 people who’d used ecstasy on average more
than 100 times with chemical probes designed to stick to the serotonin
transporter proteins that ecstasy targets.  Wherever the probes end up they
give off a detectable but safe radioactive glow.  If ecstasy destroys
serotonin synapses and fibres, the reasoning went, there ought to be fewer
transporters for the probe to find in these damaged brains, and they ought to
glow less.  Sure enough, the brains of the ecstasy users did on average glow
less than those of control subjects.

At the time, not every expert was convinced this deficiency was evidence of
longterm damage by ecstasy.  The drug users used lots of substances and the
researchers reported no urine or saliva tests to prove they were drug-free at
the time of the scan.  Some critics even suggested the subjects could have
been naturally deficient in serotonin synapses.  But as it was impossible to
prove these alternative explanations, the bleaker view of the brain scans
took hold.

Soon the scans were at the centre of the US government’s campaign on the
dangers of club drugs and featuring in TV documentaries.  The scans also
featured prominently in the official report by the US Sentencing Commission
that last year led to longer prison sentences for ecstasy offences.  The
brains scans, it claimed, showed “that users had a significantly reduced
number of serotonin transporters throughout the brain”.

And soon too other brain-imaging teams were attempting to build on the 1998
finding.  A year later, researchers from the Royal Edinburgh Hospital in
Scotland also published a paper claiming that regular ecstasy users have
fewer serotonin transporters in the brain-further evidence, they concluded,
of the drug’s “neurotoxicity”.

More recently, a team led by Liesbeth Reneman and Gerard den Heeten of the
Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam wanted to find out if heavier users of
ecstasy lose more serotonin synapses than lighter users.  To this end, they
scanned the brains of four groups: moderate users of ecstasy who claimed to
have taken no more than SO tablets in their lifetime; heavy users who claimed
to have taken hundreds; heavy users who claimed to have abstained for at
least a year; and a control group.¬† “Our results,” the team concluded in a
paper published last year in The Lancet, “indicate that women could be more
susceptible than men to the neurotoxic effects of MDMA”.

It was another worrying finding that on the face of it seemed to back up the
crucial 1998 study.  Except that on close inspection, there were
discrepancies and contradictions.  This time, the male ecstasy brains in the
study lit up just as much as the control brains, and it was only after
analysing the female brains separately from the male brains that the
researchers found anything different about some of the women.  The brains of
the heavy female users, it turned out, did light up less than those of the
moderate female users and female controls.¬† Yet even these “damaged” female
brains performed no worse than the brains of the supposedly healthy male
non-users.

It’s a confusing picture, so New Scientist asked some leading independent
scientists to look at the evidence afresh.  What we learned was that the
probes used in the scanning studies have serious deficiencies and that
despite the poster depiction of “your brain on ecstasy”, there never was-and
never has been — a typical scan showing the typical brain of a long-term
ecstasy user.

“There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users,” says Stephen Kish, a
neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto.¬† “And if
anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any brain
damage, it’s impossible to get one from these papers.” Marc Laruelle, a
Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: “All the papers
have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy.”

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer
variability of the measurements.  Some control brains performed up to 40
times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone
control brains by factors of 10 or more — a level of scatter that both
experts say is unprecedented in this type of study.  According to Kish, the
huge variations seen even in the healthy controls are a sure sign that the
probe failed to give precise and reliable measurements.¬† It’s taken years for
the problem to surface, says Kish, because the full range of the scatter is
obscured in the original paper by the unusual way the researchers analysed
their findings, converting the raw brain scan measurements into logarithms
before plotting them out.

So why the unreliability? Laruelle says the probes used in all the ecstasy
brain scan studies don’t always stick just to serotonin transporters and
should therefore only be used in certain brain areas.  In recent years, his
team has established that only the midbrain, thalamus and striatum have
enough serotonin transporters to give reliable readings.  None of the ecstasy
studies focused exclusively on these structures.  The Edinburgh team looked
only at the cerebral cortex.

Ricaurte rejects the criticism.¬† “Variability in the data would lessen our
ability to detect differences between groups and, potentially, lea to an
underestimation of differences between MDMA users and controls,” he told New
Scientist.¬† “The fact that significant differences were found speaks for
itself.”

When it comes down to it, what brains look like in a scanner shouldn’t matter
as much as whether ecstasy has any noticeable long-term effect on the way
people think, feel and act.¬† So does it? There’s certainly been a rash of
papers in psychology journals suggesting ecstasy users have poorer memories
and mental reflexes than nonusers.  And some of the conclusions make
disturbing reading.¬† In one typical study, ecstasy users “showed
significantly poorer verbal fluency and immediate and delayed recall”.¬† In
another, they were “worse on a sustained attention task requiring arithmetic
calculations, a task requiring short-term memory and a task of semantic
recognition and verbal reasoning”.¬† Last year one British team even equated
such symptoms with those seen early on in Alzheimer’s disease.

Yet take a closer look and, as with the brain scans, the evidence is not as
clear-cut as it sounds.  For a start, in the majority of tests of mental
agility, ecstasy users perform just as well as non-users.  Their reaction
times, visual memories and ability to concentrate all come out looking
normalsometimes better than normal.

In one study, psychologist Andrew Parrott of the University of East London
and his team found ecstasy users outperforming non-users in tests requiring
them to rotate complex shapes in their mind’s eye.¬† Ecstasy users also had
the edge on non-users when it came to searching a series of virtual rooms on
a computer screen to find a small red toy car.  Afterwards, says Parrott, the
ecstasy users were better at answering questions about the shapes of the
rooms and the positions of their doors.

Where ecstasy users do seem to perform worse is in learning new verbal
information.  In tests where people are given lists of words and then asked
to recall them later, a group of non-users might score an average of, say, 10
out of 15, while a group of ecstasy users of the same age and social
background might get 8.  According to Parrott, who published the first
finding of this type in 1998, ecstasy users are also slower on average to
improve when the test is repeated.  But their performance still lies well
within the spectrum of what counts as normal.

In other words, whatever ecstasy’s cognitive effects may be, they are
subtle.¬† So subtle that some experts think it’s jumping the gun to blame
ecstasy when most users of the drug take many other substances.  A team at
Imperial College Medical School in London recently tested three different
groups for recall, word fluency and speed of thought.  One used no drugs,
another just cannabis, and the third both ecstasy and cannabis.  On average,
the “no drugs” group performed the best.¬† But the “just cannabis” people
scored no better than those who used ecstasy and cannabis.  So is cannabisa
drug people often smoke to “come down” >from an ecstasy high-the real problem?

Or are scientists worrying about a cognitive impairment that just isn’t
there? It’s an open secret that some teams have failed to find deficits in
ecstasy users and had trouble publishing the findings.¬† “The journals are
very conservative,” says Parrott.¬† “It’s a source of bias.” Parrott himself
has had two papers of this sort turned down.

But is any of this a reason to dilute the ecstasy health warnings ? Surely if
there are any suspicions at all, governments and scientists should make the
strongest possible statements about risk.  Perhaps.  But some in the field
feel this approach carries a risk of its own.  If people think the health
warnings are exaggerated or at odds with their own experience of the drug,
the authorities risk losing credibility, and with it their chance to educate
anyone about drugs.

Kish says many of the ecstasy users he interacts with already consider the
brain scans to be “simply unbelievable”.¬† Harry Sumnall, who studies ecstasy
users at the University of Liverpool, fears that by prematurely highlighting
the drug as especially dangerous, psychologists and the media risk giving out
the false message that “as long as you stay away from E, you’ll be fine”.

The situation isn’t helped by the impression that double standards are at
work, with one set of rules for prescription drugs and much stricter rules
for drugs used illicitly.

While scores of studies have looked for evidence of biochemical changes in
the brains of animals and people exposed to ecstasy, only a handful have
looked for anything similar in brains exposed to antidepressants and other
prescribed agents that act on the serotonin transporter.  And when scientists
do scrutinise such drugs, officials don’t jump so readily to alarming
conclusions.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Holes in the brain

Perhaps a little clarification on the terminology would help.  What
exactly are you referring to when you talk about “holes” in the brain?
Assuredly, addicts aren’t walking around with large pieces of brain that
have shriveled up and died.  However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 11, 2002 at 5:42:19 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Please read the message or messages again.   I did not write that message that you have replied to.  Also an appology would be nice seeing you got it so wrong.   Thanks Allison   aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz     PS  It pays to get your facts correct before you fire off heated replies.
—–Original Message—–
From: Rhafner77@cs.com <Rhafner77@cs.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 14:11
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

In a message dated 9/10/2002 4:52:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:

WANT
>> > MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
>> > NEXT 30 YEARS.
>> >
>> > ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
>> > MOVE
>> > TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
>> > THEMSELVES
>> > OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
>> > GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.
>> >
>> > FUCK YOU IDIOT.
>> >
>> > SSSSSSSL8Z
>> > 2 EL8 4 EWE
>> >

well hay! you fukking IGNORANT TURD!!!
What makes You think wE ALL owe   you the time it takes to even read yer stupid sniveling?? As far as being able to find anyone  who has even bothered to read yer teen-age rant,   It has been null,  so why don`t you go eat shit, & shrivel up & KAK

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure. [!]
Date: September 11, 2002 at 12:40:32 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/10/2002 2:55:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gammalyte9000@yahoo.com writes:

if we UA’d the white house, the
senate and congress, not to mention various law enforcement agencies, military
groups and religious leaders.

Say Bruz… You know the whitehouse?staff etc. have systematically refused drug tests sinced the inception of same……….mirror

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 10, 2002 at 10:10:52 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

In a message dated 9/10/2002 4:52:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz writes:

WANT
>> > MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
>> > NEXT 30 YEARS.
>> >
>> > ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
>> > MOVE
>> > TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
>> > THEMSELVES
>> > OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
>> > GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.
>> >
>> > FUCK YOU IDIOT.
>> >
>> > SSSSSSSL8Z
>> > 2 EL8 4 EWE
>> >

well hay! you fukking IGNORANT TURD!!!
What makes You think wE ALL owe   you the time it takes to even read yer stupid sniveling?? As far as being able to find anyone  who has even bothered to read yer teen-age rant,   It has been null,  so why don`t you go eat shit, & shrivel up & KAK

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure.
Date: September 10, 2002 at 6:13:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The policy also only applied to the peons…not management staff, or
people who handle the money…”Safety Sensitive” positions.

Reminds me of the hearing on piss-testing where a congressman
or senator asked the testifying White House rep advocating the
testing to step out and piss in a bottle, and he refused.

Bill Ross

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure. [!]
Date: September 10, 2002 at 5:55:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The policy also only applied to the peons…not management staff, or
people who handle the money…”Safety Sensitive” positions. ¬†They did
decrease the percentage to 10% per quarter, but non-safety sensitive
folks are still excluded.  In the past 3-4 years, this is the second one
I have gotten. ¬†It’s a Board of directors thing…with the majority of
box-thinking grunts being supportive of drug screens.  The management
team, as a majority is against them.  The CEO pays greater heed to the
Board.

Gee, you’d think if testing was occuring at all they would certainly test the
“Saftey Sensitive” positions as well [people handling money? -don’t want them
siphoning off the ol’dolophine..].

As I recall, you work at a methadone clinic? I can’t feel but a hint of
satisfaction at clinic employees having random tests, only because I was
subject to well over a hundred UA’s while I was on the program. resulting in
either take-homes being granted or revoked, pending the outcome of the UA,
regardless of registered prescription medicines. Which fruther affected my
personal life not mention a certain level of dignity. Even being refused a dose
when I couldn’t piss in time for the end of dosing hours, which gave me a
record of a missed dose which eliminated my lousy 1 day a week take home status
that I worked 6 months for. Sigh, I am grateful not to still be standing in
that line. [yet metahdone & ibogaine saved my life]

In any event, ultimately I am against ANYbody obligating ANYone to random
Urinalisis Tests. Gestapo Tactics, another sign of our civil liberties being
etched away in this brave new world.

-gamma

p.s. I wonder what kind of results we’d see if we UA’d the white house, the
senate and congress, not to mention various law enforcement agencies, military
groups and religious leaders.

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: “Joshua Tinnin” <krinklyfig@myrealbox.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] OT – Fw: MAPS: Announcement: MDMA Literature Update Site Now On-Line
Date: September 10, 2002 at 5:20:05 PM EDT
To: “Ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s OT, but since the subject arose …

– jt

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ilsa Jerome” <Ljerome@BigPlanet.com>

ANNOUNCEMENT: MDMA LITERATURE UPDATE SITE NOW ON-LINE

We are happy to announce the completion of the MDMA Literature Update web
site, a new feature of the MAPS website containing overviews and summaries
of most of the latest papers on MDMA or ecstasy published in
English-language peer-reviewed journals.  The site is now on-line at this
URL:

www.maps.org/research/mdma/litupdates

As part of MAPS’ efforts to develop MDMA into a prescription medicine as an
adjunct to psychotherapy, MAPS sponsored a comprehensive review of the
scientific literature on MDMA. This comprehensive review was submitted to
FDA in October 2001, along with the MDMA/PTSD protocol which FDA
subsequently approved.  These updates of publications appearing after the
comprehensive review was completed are intended to keep the literature
review current by providing summaries of all papers that discuss MDMA or
ecstasy, with a focus on human clinical trials and studies in ecstasy
users.  Each summary describes research findings, and highlights any
critical conclusions or questions derived from these findings.  All updates
include summaries of original research and reviews of studies conducted in
humans, in vitro and in non-human animals published in English-language
peer-reviewed journals. All updates appearing after August 2002 also
examine human medical case reports.  Forensic and chemistry research is not
addressed, but such papers will be noted in overviews appearing after
August 2002.  Further information about these papers can be found in the
MDMA Bibliography, www.maps.org/wwwpb.

Site design has been carefully constructed by Lisa Jerome, Matthew Baggott
and Rick Doblin, all working hard at crafting a user-friendly and
comprehensive presentation.  The web site the designers envisioned was
created and further improved by Mercedes Paulino.  Summary text and
overview text was written by Lisa Jerome, greatly assisted by the thoughts
and editorial comments of Matthew Baggott.  The project would not have been
completed without the generous assistance of a team of diligent volunteers,
including Cyrus McCandless PhD, Nicholas Cozzi PhD, Harry Sumnall PhD, an
anonymous volunteer, and others.

Currently the site contains overview and summaries for papers located from
October 2001 to June 2002, with summaries and an overview of research
reports found in July, 2002 appearing on the site in the next two weeks.

We welcome any comments or suggestions you might have about the MDMA
literature updates.  We are interested in what you find most and least
helpful about this site, suggestions for improving content or site format,
and any indications of how you use this site.  Send comments to
Ilsa@maps.org.  Any input is greatly appreciated.

Anyone wishing to assist us in continuing to maintain the MDMA literature
update project should write Ilsa@maps.org to let us know your interest.

—————–
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From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure.
Date: September 10, 2002 at 3:39:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Actually, I haven’t. ¬†I was also the Team Leader for review of this
policy and presented our findings before the board, suggesting they
eliminate them. ¬†They used to test 25% “blocks” of staff each
quarter…and they called this approach “randomized.” ¬†You could get
called if your name came up that quarter…any number of times…but if
you got called, you wouldn’t be in the pool for the following quarters.
The policy also only applied to the peons…not management staff, or
people who handle the money…”Safety Sensitive” positions. ¬†They did
decrease the percentage to 10% per quarter, but non-safety sensitive
folks are still excluded.  In the past 3-4 years, this is the second one
I have gotten. ¬†It’s a Board of directors thing…with the majority of
box-thinking grunts being supportive of drug screens.  The management
team, as a majority is against them.  The CEO pays greater heed to the
Board.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com 09/10/02 03:00PM >>>
I was going to ask you if you aren’t asked to give more
of these “random” tests than usual, given that you are
the one who is against a lot of their policies.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure.

I was advised by personnel that I was selected for a
random urine drug
screen.  So I wasted company time to drive 15 minutes
to get the form,
then another 15 minutes to go to the lab…and
waited…and
waited…until I thought I was going to bust. ¬†I was
about to tell them
that I was just going to have to use the restroom and
sit around til the
tank filled when they called my name.

This is a joke that my company pays money for.  If I
was really using
drugs, I would merely divert as they aren’t even
observed…just bluing
in the water and the faucet turned off…and no
jackets or packages
allowed in the restroom.  Nonetheless, I did my duty
and gave up my
water…which will be clean of course.

It is somehow legal for an employer to randomly
search my body
chemistry for illicit drugs.  Can they also decide if
and when they are
going to perform random physical searches of my
person and my car
without reason?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

——————————————————-
————————-

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure.
Date: September 10, 2002 at 3:00:44 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was going to ask you if you aren’t asked to give more
of these “random” tests than usual, given that you are
the one who is against a lot of their policies.

chris

—– Original Message —–
From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:55 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure.

I was advised by personnel that I was selected for a
random urine drug
screen.  So I wasted company time to drive 15 minutes
to get the form,
then another 15 minutes to go to the lab…and
waited…and
waited…until I thought I was going to bust. ¬†I was
about to tell them
that I was just going to have to use the restroom and
sit around til the
tank filled when they called my name.

This is a joke that my company pays money for.  If I
was really using
drugs, I would merely divert as they aren’t even
observed…just bluing
in the water and the faucet turned off…and no
jackets or packages
allowed in the restroom.  Nonetheless, I did my duty
and gave up my
water…which will be clean of course.

It is somehow legal for an employer to randomly
search my body
chemistry for illicit drugs.  Can they also decide if
and when they are
going to perform random physical searches of my
person and my car
without reason?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

——————————————————-
————————-

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Another search and seizure.
Date: September 10, 2002 at 2:55:35 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was advised by personnel that I was selected for a random urine drug
screen.  So I wasted company time to drive 15 minutes to get the form,
then another 15 minutes to go to the lab…and waited…and
waited…until I thought I was going to bust. ¬†I was about to tell them
that I was just going to have to use the restroom and sit around til the
tank filled when they called my name.

This is a joke that my company pays money for.  If I was really using
drugs, I would merely divert as they aren’t even observed…just bluing
in the water and the faucet turned off…and no jackets or packages
allowed in the restroom.  Nonetheless, I did my duty and gave up my
water…which will be clean of course.

It is somehow legal for an employer to randomly search my body
chemistry for illicit drugs.  Can they also decide if and when they are
going to perform random physical searches of my person and my car
without reason?

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”
Date: September 10, 2002 at 1:55:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

outside of rat studies, it is very difficult to demonstrate causality.
(in reference to mdma)

the scary thing about the mdma or “ecstacy” that is widely available in US and
European scenes is you never really know what you’re getting, and the bathtub
variety of mdma is some unpredictable shit. Neorotoxicity with pharmaceutical
grade mdma verses billy bobs bathtub batch (or herr heinhoffers for that
matter) I’m sure would vary in favor of the pure and unadulterated real McCoy.

but then again we were talking about CrAck, really. which is actually quite
predictable. A quick[or not] tour thru hell. and possible “areas of inactivity”
in the brain.

regarding “Holes” in the brain, still waiting for a response from afore
mentioned party. “Holes” could certainly be laymans terms for “areas of
inactivity”.

Ruffled feathers and personalities aside, I’ve decided grilled Vermont sharp
white chedar on Rye is superior to swiss. Try it sometime.

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Yahoo! – We Remember
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”
Date: September 10, 2002 at 12:03:57 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>With
human studies, you introduce a vast new set of variables.  As such,
outside of rat studies, it is very difficult to demonstrate causality.<

I thought there was a big study that just was released last week in England alleging after human studies that MDMA was not nearly as dangerous and destructive as made out to be. Dana posted an article about it here.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”

Interesting story.  Most of the decent research relating to MDMA have
been done in animal models.  From a review of the PubMed information,
the evidence for neurotoxicity in animals is rather clear.  There are
always problems with the research…one study says this, another says
that, inject a little bias, and the readers opinion, and where do you
end up?  Either believing or unbelieving, or taking the position of
“Interesting,” and the conclusion that the jury is still out.¬† With
human studies, you introduce a vast new set of variables.  As such,
outside of rat studies, it is very difficult to demonstrate causality.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 09/10/02 09:22AM >>>
>However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp<

And here are some of the problems with these not quite so clear cut as
they are made out to be scans:

http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg03613.html
New Scientist Feature on MDMA (repost of yesterday, but longer snip)

snip->In 1998, however, the case against ecstasy took a dramatic new
turn.
Ricaurle’s team published a paper in The Lancet reporting what looked
to be
lasting brain damage in people who use ecstasy.  This time the evidence
was
from a PET brain scanning study and seemed clear-cut.  Where scans of
control
subjects were alive with colour, those of ecstasy users looked dull
and
dark.¬† Ecstasy “injures brain for life”, declared one of many
startling
newspaper headlines.

The study involved injecting 14 people who’d used ecstasy on average
more
than 100 times with chemical probes designed to stick to the serotonin
transporter proteins that ecstasy targets.  Wherever the probes end up
they
give off a detectable but safe radioactive glow.  If ecstasy destroys
serotonin synapses and fibres, the reasoning went, there ought to be
fewer
transporters for the probe to find in these damaged brains, and they
ought to
glow less.  Sure enough, the brains of the ecstasy users did on average
glow
less than those of control subjects.

At the time, not every expert was convinced this deficiency was
evidence of
longterm damage by ecstasy.  The drug users used lots of substances and
the
researchers reported no urine or saliva tests to prove they were
drug-free at
the time of the scan.  Some critics even suggested the subjects could
have
been naturally deficient in serotonin synapses.  But as it was
impossible to
prove these alternative explanations, the bleaker view of the brain
scans
took hold.

Soon the scans were at the centre of the US government’s campaign on
the
dangers of club drugs and featuring in TV documentaries.  The scans
also
featured prominently in the official report by the US Sentencing
Commission
that last year led to longer prison sentences for ecstasy offences.
The
brains scans, it claimed, showed “that users had a significantly
reduced
number of serotonin transporters throughout the brain”.

And soon too other brain-imaging teams were attempting to build on the
1998
finding.  A year later, researchers from the Royal Edinburgh Hospital
in
Scotland also published a paper claiming that regular ecstasy users
have
fewer serotonin transporters in the brain-further evidence, they
concluded,
of the drug’s “neurotoxicity”.

More recently, a team led by Liesbeth Reneman and Gerard den Heeten of
the
Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam wanted to find out if heavier
users of
ecstasy lose more serotonin synapses than lighter users.  To this end,
they
scanned the brains of four groups: moderate users of ecstasy who
claimed to
have taken no more than SO tablets in their lifetime; heavy users who
claimed
to have taken hundreds; heavy users who claimed to have abstained for
at
least a year; and a control group.¬† “Our results,” the team concluded
in a
paper published last year in The Lancet, “indicate that women could be
more
susceptible than men to the neurotoxic effects of MDMA”.

It was another worrying finding that on the face of it seemed to back
up the
crucial 1998 study.  Except that on close inspection, there were
discrepancies and contradictions.  This time, the male ecstasy brains
in the
study lit up just as much as the control brains, and it was only after
analysing the female brains separately from the male brains that the
researchers found anything different about some of the women.  The
brains of
the heavy female users, it turned out, did light up less than those of
the
moderate female users and female controls.¬† Yet even these “damaged”
female
brains performed no worse than the brains of the supposedly healthy
male
non-users.

It’s a confusing picture, so New Scientist asked some leading
independent
scientists to look at the evidence afresh.  What we learned was that
the
probes used in the scanning studies have serious deficiencies and that
despite the poster depiction of “your brain on ecstasy”, there never
was-and
never has been — a typical scan showing the typical brain of a
long-term
ecstasy user.

“There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users,” says Stephen Kish,
a
neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto.
“And if
anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any
brain
damage, it’s impossible to get one from these papers.” Marc Laruelle,
a
Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: “All the
papers
have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy.”

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer
variability of the measurements.  Some control brains performed up to
40
times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone
control brains by factors of 10 or more — a level of scatter that
both
experts say is unprecedented in this type of study.  According to Kish,
the
huge variations seen even in the healthy controls are a sure sign that
the
probe failed to give precise and reliable measurements.¬† It’s taken
years for
the problem to surface, says Kish, because the full range of the
scatter is
obscured in the original paper by the unusual way the researchers
analysed
their findings, converting the raw brain scan measurements into
logarithms
before plotting them out.

So why the unreliability? Laruelle says the probes used in all the
ecstasy
brain scan studies don’t always stick just to serotonin transporters
and
should therefore only be used in certain brain areas.  In recent years,
his
team has established that only the midbrain, thalamus and striatum
have
enough serotonin transporters to give reliable readings.  None of the
ecstasy
studies focused exclusively on these structures.  The Edinburgh team
looked
only at the cerebral cortex.

Ricaurte rejects the criticism.¬† “Variability in the data would lessen
our
ability to detect differences between groups and, potentially, lea to
an
underestimation of differences between MDMA users and controls,” he
told New
Scientist.¬† “The fact that significant differences were found speaks
for
itself.”

When it comes down to it, what brains look like in a scanner shouldn’t
matter
as much as whether ecstasy has any noticeable long-term effect on the
way
people think, feel and act.¬† So does it? There’s certainly been a rash
of
papers in psychology journals suggesting ecstasy users have poorer
memories
and mental reflexes than nonusers.  And some of the conclusions make
disturbing reading.¬† In one typical study, ecstasy users “showed
significantly poorer verbal fluency and immediate and delayed recall”.
In
another, they were “worse on a sustained attention task requiring
arithmetic
calculations, a task requiring short-term memory and a task of
semantic
recognition and verbal reasoning”.¬† Last year one British team even
equated
such symptoms with those seen early on in Alzheimer’s disease.

Yet take a closer look and, as with the brain scans, the evidence is
not as
clear-cut as it sounds.  For a start, in the majority of tests of
mental
agility, ecstasy users perform just as well as non-users.  Their
reaction
times, visual memories and ability to concentrate all come out looking
normalsometimes better than normal.

In one study, psychologist Andrew Parrott of the University of East
London
and his team found ecstasy users outperforming non-users in tests
requiring
them to rotate complex shapes in their mind’s eye.¬† Ecstasy users also
had
the edge on non-users when it came to searching a series of virtual
rooms on
a computer screen to find a small red toy car.  Afterwards, says
Parrott, the
ecstasy users were better at answering questions about the shapes of
the
rooms and the positions of their doors.

Where ecstasy users do seem to perform worse is in learning new verbal
information.  In tests where people are given lists of words and then
asked
to recall them later, a group of non-users might score an average of,
say, 10
out of 15, while a group of ecstasy users of the same age and social
background might get 8.  According to Parrott, who published the first
finding of this type in 1998, ecstasy users are also slower on average
to
improve when the test is repeated.  But their performance still lies
well
within the spectrum of what counts as normal.

In other words, whatever ecstasy’s cognitive effects may be, they are
subtle.¬† So subtle that some experts think it’s jumping the gun to
blame
ecstasy when most users of the drug take many other substances.  A team
at
Imperial College Medical School in London recently tested three
different
groups for recall, word fluency and speed of thought.  One used no
drugs,
another just cannabis, and the third both ecstasy and cannabis.  On
average,
the “no drugs” group performed the best.¬† But the “just cannabis”
people
scored no better than those who used ecstasy and cannabis.  So is
cannabisa
drug people often smoke to “come down” from an ecstasy high-the real
problem?

Or are scientists worrying about a cognitive impairment that just
isn’t
there? It’s an open secret that some teams have failed to find deficits
in
ecstasy users and had trouble publishing the findings.¬† “The journals
are
very conservative,” says Parrott.¬† “It’s a source of bias.” Parrott
himself
has had two papers of this sort turned down.

But is any of this a reason to dilute the ecstasy health warnings ?
Surely if
there are any suspicions at all, governments and scientists should make
the
strongest possible statements about risk.  Perhaps.  But some in the
field
feel this approach carries a risk of its own.  If people think the
health
warnings are exaggerated or at odds with their own experience of the
drug,
the authorities risk losing credibility, and with it their chance to
educate
anyone about drugs.

Kish says many of the ecstasy users he interacts with already consider
the
brain scans to be “simply unbelievable”.¬† Harry Sumnall, who studies
ecstasy
users at the University of Liverpool, fears that by prematurely
highlighting
the drug as especially dangerous, psychologists and the media risk
giving out
the false message that “as long as you stay away from E, you’ll be
fine”.

The situation isn’t helped by the impression that double standards are
at
work, with one set of rules for prescription drugs and much stricter
rules
for drugs used illicitly.

While scores of studies have looked for evidence of biochemical changes
in
the brains of animals and people exposed to ecstasy, only a handful
have
looked for anything similar in brains exposed to antidepressants and
other
prescribed agents that act on the serotonin transporter.  And when
scientists
do scrutinise such drugs, officials don’t jump so readily to alarming
conclusions.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Holes in the brain

Perhaps a little clarification on the terminology would help.  What
exactly are you referring to when you talk about “holes” in the
brain?
Assuredly, addicts aren’t walking around with large pieces of brain
that
have shriveled up and died.  However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral
blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

——————————————————————————

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re dark alliance type stuff
Date: September 10, 2002 at 11:56:26 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It probably goes to the matter of defining the term “evidence.” ¬†I had
the impression that the conclusion was based on them finding no evidence
that would stand up in a court of law…dealing with a lot of “off the
record” interviews that indicatde wrongdoing, but wouldn’t have much
credibility as all the spook-types would adopt the standard procedure of
denial if the report contained “evidence.” ¬†True “hard evidence” is
easily shredded.

Not to mention, who wants to publish a report with the possibility of
his or her coming to a tragic end as ¬†a victim of “random” violence.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 09/10/02 10:42AM >>>
Yeah, I got a copy of it from the Gov Printing Office when it was first
released.
I too was surprised they included all that information in the back, in
all the transcripts part, that seemed to go directly opposite to their
stated conclusion of “finding no evidence.”
Peace,
Preston

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”
Date: September 10, 2002 at 11:26:17 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Interesting story.  Most of the decent research relating to MDMA have
been done in animal models.  From a review of the PubMed information,
the evidence for neurotoxicity in animals is rather clear.  There are
always problems with the research…one study says this, another says
that, inject a little bias, and the readers opinion, and where do you
end up?  Either believing or unbelieving, or taking the position of
“Interesting,” and the conclusion that the jury is still out. ¬†With
human studies, you introduce a vast new set of variables.  As such,
outside of rat studies, it is very difficult to demonstrate causality.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 09/10/02 09:22AM >>>
However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp<

And here are some of the problems with these not quite so clear cut as
they are made out to be scans:

http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg03613.html
New Scientist Feature on MDMA (repost of yesterday, but longer snip)

snip->In 1998, however, the case against ecstasy took a dramatic new
turn.
Ricaurle’s team published a paper in The Lancet reporting what looked
to be
lasting brain damage in people who use ecstasy.  This time the evidence
was
from a PET brain scanning study and seemed clear-cut.  Where scans of
control
subjects were alive with colour, those of ecstasy users looked dull
and
dark. ¬†Ecstasy “injures brain for life”, declared one of many
startling
newspaper headlines.

The study involved injecting 14 people who’d used ecstasy on average
more
than 100 times with chemical probes designed to stick to the serotonin
transporter proteins that ecstasy targets.  Wherever the probes end up
they
give off a detectable but safe radioactive glow.  If ecstasy destroys
serotonin synapses and fibres, the reasoning went, there ought to be
fewer
transporters for the probe to find in these damaged brains, and they
ought to
glow less.  Sure enough, the brains of the ecstasy users did on average
glow
less than those of control subjects.

At the time, not every expert was convinced this deficiency was
evidence of
longterm damage by ecstasy.  The drug users used lots of substances and
the
researchers reported no urine or saliva tests to prove they were
drug-free at
the time of the scan.  Some critics even suggested the subjects could
have
been naturally deficient in serotonin synapses.  But as it was
impossible to
prove these alternative explanations, the bleaker view of the brain
scans
took hold.

Soon the scans were at the centre of the US government’s campaign on
the
dangers of club drugs and featuring in TV documentaries.  The scans
also
featured prominently in the official report by the US Sentencing
Commission
that last year led to longer prison sentences for ecstasy offences.
The
brains scans, it claimed, showed “that users had a significantly
reduced
number of serotonin transporters throughout the brain”.

And soon too other brain-imaging teams were attempting to build on the
1998
finding.  A year later, researchers from the Royal Edinburgh Hospital
in
Scotland also published a paper claiming that regular ecstasy users
have
fewer serotonin transporters in the brain-further evidence, they
concluded,
of the drug’s “neurotoxicity”.

More recently, a team led by Liesbeth Reneman and Gerard den Heeten of
the
Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam wanted to find out if heavier
users of
ecstasy lose more serotonin synapses than lighter users.  To this end,
they
scanned the brains of four groups: moderate users of ecstasy who
claimed to
have taken no more than SO tablets in their lifetime; heavy users who
claimed
to have taken hundreds; heavy users who claimed to have abstained for
at
least a year; and a control group. ¬†“Our results,” the team concluded
in a
paper published last year in The Lancet, “indicate that women could be
more
susceptible than men to the neurotoxic effects of MDMA”.

It was another worrying finding that on the face of it seemed to back
up the
crucial 1998 study.  Except that on close inspection, there were
discrepancies and contradictions.  This time, the male ecstasy brains
in the
study lit up just as much as the control brains, and it was only after
analysing the female brains separately from the male brains that the
researchers found anything different about some of the women.  The
brains of
the heavy female users, it turned out, did light up less than those of
the
moderate female users and female controls. ¬†Yet even these “damaged”
female
brains performed no worse than the brains of the supposedly healthy
male
non-users.

It’s a confusing picture, so New Scientist asked some leading
independent
scientists to look at the evidence afresh.  What we learned was that
the
probes used in the scanning studies have serious deficiencies and that
despite the poster depiction of “your brain on ecstasy”, there never
was-and
never has been — a typical scan showing the typical brain of a
long-term
ecstasy user.

“There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users,” says Stephen Kish,
a
neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto.
“And if
anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any
brain
damage, it’s impossible to get one from these papers.” Marc Laruelle,
a
Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: “All the
papers
have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy.”

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer
variability of the measurements.  Some control brains performed up to
40
times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone
control brains by factors of 10 or more — a level of scatter that
both
experts say is unprecedented in this type of study.  According to Kish,
the
huge variations seen even in the healthy controls are a sure sign that
the
probe failed to give precise and reliable measurements. ¬†It’s taken
years for
the problem to surface, says Kish, because the full range of the
scatter is
obscured in the original paper by the unusual way the researchers
analysed
their findings, converting the raw brain scan measurements into
logarithms
before plotting them out.

So why the unreliability? Laruelle says the probes used in all the
ecstasy
brain scan studies don’t always stick just to serotonin transporters
and
should therefore only be used in certain brain areas.  In recent years,
his
team has established that only the midbrain, thalamus and striatum
have
enough serotonin transporters to give reliable readings.  None of the
ecstasy
studies focused exclusively on these structures.  The Edinburgh team
looked
only at the cerebral cortex.

Ricaurte rejects the criticism. ¬†“Variability in the data would lessen
our
ability to detect differences between groups and, potentially, lea to
an
underestimation of differences between MDMA users and controls,” he
told New
Scientist. ¬†“The fact that significant differences were found speaks
for
itself.”

When it comes down to it, what brains look like in a scanner shouldn’t
matter
as much as whether ecstasy has any noticeable long-term effect on the
way
people think, feel and act. ¬†So does it? There’s certainly been a rash
of
papers in psychology journals suggesting ecstasy users have poorer
memories
and mental reflexes than nonusers.  And some of the conclusions make
disturbing reading. ¬†In one typical study, ecstasy users “showed
significantly poorer verbal fluency and immediate and delayed recall”.
In
another, they were “worse on a sustained attention task requiring
arithmetic
calculations, a task requiring short-term memory and a task of
semantic
recognition and verbal reasoning”. ¬†Last year one British team even
equated
such symptoms with those seen early on in Alzheimer’s disease.

Yet take a closer look and, as with the brain scans, the evidence is
not as
clear-cut as it sounds.  For a start, in the majority of tests of
mental
agility, ecstasy users perform just as well as non-users.  Their
reaction
times, visual memories and ability to concentrate all come out looking
normalsometimes better than normal.

In one study, psychologist Andrew Parrott of the University of East
London
and his team found ecstasy users outperforming non-users in tests
requiring
them to rotate complex shapes in their mind’s eye. ¬†Ecstasy users also
had
the edge on non-users when it came to searching a series of virtual
rooms on
a computer screen to find a small red toy car.  Afterwards, says
Parrott, the
ecstasy users were better at answering questions about the shapes of
the
rooms and the positions of their doors.

Where ecstasy users do seem to perform worse is in learning new verbal
information.  In tests where people are given lists of words and then
asked
to recall them later, a group of non-users might score an average of,
say, 10
out of 15, while a group of ecstasy users of the same age and social
background might get 8.  According to Parrott, who published the first
finding of this type in 1998, ecstasy users are also slower on average
to
improve when the test is repeated.  But their performance still lies
well
within the spectrum of what counts as normal.

In other words, whatever ecstasy’s cognitive effects may be, they are
subtle. ¬†So subtle that some experts think it’s jumping the gun to
blame
ecstasy when most users of the drug take many other substances.  A team
at
Imperial College Medical School in London recently tested three
different
groups for recall, word fluency and speed of thought.  One used no
drugs,
another just cannabis, and the third both ecstasy and cannabis.  On
average,
the “no drugs” group performed the best. ¬†But the “just cannabis”
people
scored no better than those who used ecstasy and cannabis.  So is
cannabisa
drug people often smoke to “come down” from an ecstasy high-the real
problem?

Or are scientists worrying about a cognitive impairment that just
isn’t
there? It’s an open secret that some teams have failed to find deficits
in
ecstasy users and had trouble publishing the findings. ¬†“The journals
are
very conservative,” says Parrott. ¬†“It’s a source of bias.” Parrott
himself
has had two papers of this sort turned down.

But is any of this a reason to dilute the ecstasy health warnings ?
Surely if
there are any suspicions at all, governments and scientists should make
the
strongest possible statements about risk.  Perhaps.  But some in the
field
feel this approach carries a risk of its own.  If people think the
health
warnings are exaggerated or at odds with their own experience of the
drug,
the authorities risk losing credibility, and with it their chance to
educate
anyone about drugs.

Kish says many of the ecstasy users he interacts with already consider
the
brain scans to be “simply unbelievable”. ¬†Harry Sumnall, who studies
ecstasy
users at the University of Liverpool, fears that by prematurely
highlighting
the drug as especially dangerous, psychologists and the media risk
giving out
the false message that “as long as you stay away from E, you’ll be
fine”.

The situation isn’t helped by the impression that double standards are
at
work, with one set of rules for prescription drugs and much stricter
rules
for drugs used illicitly.

While scores of studies have looked for evidence of biochemical changes
in
the brains of animals and people exposed to ecstasy, only a handful
have
looked for anything similar in brains exposed to antidepressants and
other
prescribed agents that act on the serotonin transporter.  And when
scientists
do scrutinise such drugs, officials don’t jump so readily to alarming
conclusions.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Holes in the brain

Perhaps a little clarification on the terminology would help.  What
exactly are you referring to when you talk about “holes” in the
brain?
Assuredly, addicts aren’t walking around with large pieces of brain
that
have shriveled up and died.  However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral
blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

——————————————————————————

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re dark alliance type stuff
Date: September 10, 2002 at 10:42:08 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Yeah, I got a copy of it from the Gov Printing Office when it was first released.
I too was surprised they included all that information in the back, in all the transcripts part, that seemed to go directly opposite to their stated conclusion of “finding no evidence.”
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re dark alliance type stuff

Can’t remember the link, but try to check out the actual report.¬† The
conclusion is accurate…they “found no evidence,” but it is also pretty
clear in the summarization that the committee found LOTS of information
which would indicate that something of this nature was going on…but
they simply lacked the actual “evidence.”¬† I was actually surprised that
their opinions and beliefs on this matter were included.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 09/09/02 09:26PM >>>
Brett wrote>They are not assholes, they are criminals.<

To which I say, hear, hear in a most hearty fashion!

http://www.drugwar.com/pcatchintel.shtm

How the People Seldom Catch Intelligence-
(or How to Be a Successful Drug Dealer)
by Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com Sept. 9, 2002
(Originally Published in “You Are Being Lied To- the Disinformation
Guide to
Media Distortion, Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths”- ed. Russ
Kick,
2001)
“For me, one could write about lies from morning till night, but this
is the
one most worth writing about, because the domestic consequences are so
horrible; it’s contributed to police brutality, police corruption,
militarizations of police forces, and now, as we speak, it contributes
to
the pretext for another Vietnam War.” Peter Dale Scott, July 24, 2000
On May 11, 2000, the US House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence
made public their “Report on the Central Intelligence Agency’s Alleged
Involvement in Crack Cocaine Trafficking in the Los Angeles Area.”[1]
The
investigation by the HPSCI focused solely on the “implications” of
facts
reported in investigative reporter Gary Webb’s 3-part expose in the San
Jose
Mercury News, August, 18, 19, and 20, 1996, titled “Dark Alliance,” in
which
it was alleged that a core group of Nicaraguan Contra supporters formed
an
alliance with black dealers in South Central Los Angeles to sell
cocaine to
the Bloods and Crips street gangs, who turned it into crack, then the
drug-profits were funneled back to Contra coffers by the Contra
supporters.
Approved for release in February, 2000, the HPSCI report states the
Committee “found no evidence” to support allegations that CIA agents
or
assets associated in any way with the Nicaraguan Contra movement were
involved in the supply or sale of drugs in the Los Angeles area.
Utilizing a
not-so-subtle strategy of semantics and misdirection, the HPSCI report
seeks
to shore up the justifiably crumbling trust in government experienced
by the
American public. But the report is still a lie.
One would have to intentionally not look to miss the copious amounts
of
evidence of CIA sanctioned and protected drug-trafficking, even in LA,
that
exists today in the public record, and the HPSCI succeeds admirably,
disregarding sworn testimony, government reports, and ignores what
agents on
the ground at the scene have to say.
snip-
Much more continued at above URL.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test NO they are NOT interested in stopping
drugs
PROOF.

>
> If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us
> and hid THAT eveidence,
> then I would say they were assholes!

They are not assholes, they are criminals.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/opi007.htm

snip

“The general offered to stop the flow of opium and
heroin into the free world. He was told by White House
officials, “Bo, there’s no one here that supports
that.” His reply, “What? vice-president Bush has been
appointed by president Reagan as the Number One
policeman to control drug entry into the United
States. How can you say there’s no interest and no
support when we bring back a video tape with a direct
interview with a man who puts 900 tons of opium and
heroin across into the free world every year and is
willing to stop it?” And they said, “Bo, what can I
tell you?”

“All I can say is there is no interest in doing that
here.”

(Lieutenant Colonel James ‘Bo’ Gritz is the most
decorated Green Beret commander of the Vietnam Era)

Any questions???

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] “[there are no] ‘Holes’ in brains”
Date: September 10, 2002 at 9:22:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp<

And here are some of the problems with these not quite so clear cut as they are made out to be scans:

http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg03613.html
New Scientist Feature on MDMA (repost of yesterday, but longer snip)

snip->In 1998, however, the case against ecstasy took a dramatic new turn.
Ricaurle’s team published a paper in The Lancet reporting what looked to be
lasting brain damage in people who use ecstasy.  This time the evidence was
from a PET brain scanning study and seemed clear-cut.  Where scans of control
subjects were alive with colour, those of ecstasy users looked dull and
dark.¬† Ecstasy “injures brain for life”, declared one of many startling
newspaper headlines.

The study involved injecting 14 people who’d used ecstasy on average more
than 100 times with chemical probes designed to stick to the serotonin
transporter proteins that ecstasy targets.  Wherever the probes end up they
give off a detectable but safe radioactive glow.  If ecstasy destroys
serotonin synapses and fibres, the reasoning went, there ought to be fewer
transporters for the probe to find in these damaged brains, and they ought to
glow less.  Sure enough, the brains of the ecstasy users did on average glow
less than those of control subjects.

At the time, not every expert was convinced this deficiency was evidence of
longterm damage by ecstasy.  The drug users used lots of substances and the
researchers reported no urine or saliva tests to prove they were drug-free at
the time of the scan.  Some critics even suggested the subjects could have
been naturally deficient in serotonin synapses.  But as it was impossible to
prove these alternative explanations, the bleaker view of the brain scans
took hold.

Soon the scans were at the centre of the US government’s campaign on the
dangers of club drugs and featuring in TV documentaries.  The scans also
featured prominently in the official report by the US Sentencing Commission
that last year led to longer prison sentences for ecstasy offences.  The
brains scans, it claimed, showed “that users had a significantly reduced
number of serotonin transporters throughout the brain”.

And soon too other brain-imaging teams were attempting to build on the 1998
finding.  A year later, researchers from the Royal Edinburgh Hospital in
Scotland also published a paper claiming that regular ecstasy users have
fewer serotonin transporters in the brain-further evidence, they concluded,
of the drug’s “neurotoxicity”.

More recently, a team led by Liesbeth Reneman and Gerard den Heeten of the
Academic Medical Centre in Amsterdam wanted to find out if heavier users of
ecstasy lose more serotonin synapses than lighter users.  To this end, they
scanned the brains of four groups: moderate users of ecstasy who claimed to
have taken no more than SO tablets in their lifetime; heavy users who claimed
to have taken hundreds; heavy users who claimed to have abstained for at
least a year; and a control group.¬† “Our results,” the team concluded in a
paper published last year in The Lancet, “indicate that women could be more
susceptible than men to the neurotoxic effects of MDMA”.

It was another worrying finding that on the face of it seemed to back up the
crucial 1998 study.  Except that on close inspection, there were
discrepancies and contradictions.  This time, the male ecstasy brains in the
study lit up just as much as the control brains, and it was only after
analysing the female brains separately >from the male brains that the
researchers found anything different about some of the women.  The brains of
the heavy female users, it turned out, did light up less than those of the
moderate female users and female controls.¬† Yet even these “damaged” female
brains performed no worse than the brains of the supposedly healthy male
non-users.

It’s a confusing picture, so New Scientist asked some leading independent
scientists to look at the evidence afresh.  What we learned was that the
probes used in the scanning studies have serious deficiencies and that
despite the poster depiction of “your brain on ecstasy”, there never was-and
never has been — a typical scan showing the typical brain of a long-term
ecstasy user.

“There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users,” says Stephen Kish, a
neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto.¬† “And if
anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any brain
damage, it’s impossible to get one from these papers.” Marc Laruelle, a
Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: “All the papers
have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy.”

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer
variability of the measurements.  Some control brains performed up to 40
times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone
control brains by factors of 10 or more — a level of scatter that both
experts say is unprecedented in this type of study.  According to Kish, the
huge variations seen even in the healthy controls are a sure sign that the
probe failed to give precise and reliable measurements.¬† It’s taken years for
the problem to surface, says Kish, because the full range of the scatter is
obscured in the original paper by the unusual way the researchers analysed
their findings, converting the raw brain scan measurements into logarithms
before plotting them out.

So why the unreliability? Laruelle says the probes used in all the ecstasy
brain scan studies don’t always stick just to serotonin transporters and
should therefore only be used in certain brain areas.  In recent years, his
team has established that only the midbrain, thalamus and striatum have
enough serotonin transporters to give reliable readings.  None of the ecstasy
studies focused exclusively on these structures.  The Edinburgh team looked
only at the cerebral cortex.

Ricaurte rejects the criticism.¬† “Variability in the data would lessen our
ability to detect differences between groups and, potentially, lea to an
underestimation of differences between MDMA users and controls,” he told New
Scientist.¬† “The fact that significant differences were found speaks for
itself.”

When it comes down to it, what brains look like in a scanner shouldn’t matter
as much as whether ecstasy has any noticeable long-term effect on the way
people think, feel and act.¬† So does it? There’s certainly been a rash of
papers in psychology journals suggesting ecstasy users have poorer memories
and mental reflexes than nonusers.  And some of the conclusions make
disturbing reading.¬† In one typical study, ecstasy users “showed
significantly poorer verbal fluency and immediate and delayed recall”.¬† In
another, they were “worse on a sustained attention task requiring arithmetic
calculations, a task requiring short-term memory and a task of semantic
recognition and verbal reasoning”.¬† Last year one British team even equated
such symptoms with those seen early on in Alzheimer’s disease.

Yet take a closer look and, as with the brain scans, the evidence is not as
clear-cut as it sounds.  For a start, in the majority of tests of mental
agility, ecstasy users perform just as well as non-users.  Their reaction
times, visual memories and ability to concentrate all come out looking
normalsometimes better than normal.

In one study, psychologist Andrew Parrott of the University of East London
and his team found ecstasy users outperforming non-users in tests requiring
them to rotate complex shapes in their mind’s eye.¬† Ecstasy users also had
the edge on non-users when it came to searching a series of virtual rooms on
a computer screen to find a small red toy car.  Afterwards, says Parrott, the
ecstasy users were better at answering questions about the shapes of the
rooms and the positions of their doors.

Where ecstasy users do seem to perform worse is in learning new verbal
information.  In tests where people are given lists of words and then asked
to recall them later, a group of non-users might score an average of, say, 10
out of 15, while a group of ecstasy users of the same age and social
background might get 8.  According to Parrott, who published the first
finding of this type in 1998, ecstasy users are also slower on average to
improve when the test is repeated.  But their performance still lies well
within the spectrum of what counts as normal.

In other words, whatever ecstasy’s cognitive effects may be, they are
subtle.¬† So subtle that some experts think it’s jumping the gun to blame
ecstasy when most users of the drug take many other substances.  A team at
Imperial College Medical School in London recently tested three different
groups for recall, word fluency and speed of thought.  One used no drugs,
another just cannabis, and the third both ecstasy and cannabis.  On average,
the “no drugs” group performed the best.¬† But the “just cannabis” people
scored no better than those who used ecstasy and cannabis.  So is cannabisa
drug people often smoke to “come down” from an ecstasy high-the real problem?

Or are scientists worrying about a cognitive impairment that just isn’t
there? It’s an open secret that some teams have failed to find deficits in
ecstasy users and had trouble publishing the findings.¬† “The journals are
very conservative,” says Parrott.¬† “It’s a source of bias.” Parrott himself
has had two papers of this sort turned down.

But is any of this a reason to dilute the ecstasy health warnings ? Surely if
there are any suspicions at all, governments and scientists should make the
strongest possible statements about risk.  Perhaps.  But some in the field
feel this approach carries a risk of its own.  If people think the health
warnings are exaggerated or at odds with their own experience of the drug,
the authorities risk losing credibility, and with it their chance to educate
anyone about drugs.

Kish says many of the ecstasy users he interacts with already consider the
brain scans to be “simply unbelievable”.¬† Harry Sumnall, who studies ecstasy
users at the University of Liverpool, fears that by prematurely highlighting
the drug as especially dangerous, psychologists and the media risk giving out
the false message that “as long as you stay away from E, you’ll be fine”.

The situation isn’t helped by the impression that double standards are at
work, with one set of rules for prescription drugs and much stricter rules
for drugs used illicitly.

While scores of studies have looked for evidence of biochemical changes in
the brains of animals and people exposed to ecstasy, only a handful have
looked for anything similar in brains exposed to antidepressants and other
prescribed agents that act on the serotonin transporter.  And when scientists
do scrutinise such drugs, officials don’t jump so readily to alarming
conclusions.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:04 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] Holes in the brain

Perhaps a little clarification on the terminology would help.  What
exactly are you referring to when you talk about “holes” in the brain?
Assuredly, addicts aren’t walking around with large pieces of brain that
have shriveled up and died.  However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] re dark alliance type stuff
Date: September 10, 2002 at 9:13:29 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Can’t remember the link, but try to check out the actual report. ¬†The
conclusion is accurate…they “found no evidence,” but it is also pretty
clear in the summarization that the committee found LOTS of information
which would indicate that something of this nature was going on…but
they simply lacked the actual “evidence.” ¬†I was actually surprised that
their opinions and beliefs on this matter were included.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

ptpeet@nyc.rr.com 09/09/02 09:26PM >>>
Brett wrote>They are not assholes, they are criminals.<

To which I say, hear, hear in a most hearty fashion!

http://www.drugwar.com/pcatchintel.shtm

How the People Seldom Catch Intelligence-
(or How to Be a Successful Drug Dealer)
by Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com Sept. 9, 2002
(Originally Published in “You Are Being Lied To- the Disinformation
Guide to
Media Distortion, Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths”- ed. Russ
Kick,
2001)
“For me, one could write about lies from morning till night, but this
is the
one most worth writing about, because the domestic consequences are so
horrible; it’s contributed to police brutality, police corruption,
militarizations of police forces, and now, as we speak, it contributes
to
the pretext for another Vietnam War.” Peter Dale Scott, July 24, 2000
On May 11, 2000, the US House Permanent Select Committee on
Intelligence
made public their “Report on the Central Intelligence Agency’s Alleged
Involvement in Crack Cocaine Trafficking in the Los Angeles Area.”[1]
The
investigation by the HPSCI focused solely on the “implications” of
facts
reported in investigative reporter Gary Webb’s 3-part expose in the San
Jose
Mercury News, August, 18, 19, and 20, 1996, titled “Dark Alliance,” in
which
it was alleged that a core group of Nicaraguan Contra supporters formed
an
alliance with black dealers in South Central Los Angeles to sell
cocaine to
the Bloods and Crips street gangs, who turned it into crack, then the
drug-profits were funneled back to Contra coffers by the Contra
supporters.
Approved for release in February, 2000, the HPSCI report states the
Committee “found no evidence” to support allegations that CIA agents
or
assets associated in any way with the Nicaraguan Contra movement were
involved in the supply or sale of drugs in the Los Angeles area.
Utilizing a
not-so-subtle strategy of semantics and misdirection, the HPSCI report
seeks
to shore up the justifiably crumbling trust in government experienced
by the
American public. But the report is still a lie.
One would have to intentionally not look to miss the copious amounts
of
evidence of CIA sanctioned and protected drug-trafficking, even in LA,
that
exists today in the public record, and the HPSCI succeeds admirably,
disregarding sworn testimony, government reports, and ignores what
agents on
the ground at the scene have to say.
snip-
Much more continued at above URL.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test NO they are NOT interested in stopping
drugs
PROOF.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us
and hid THAT eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

They are not assholes, they are criminals.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/opi007.htm

snip

“The general offered to stop the flow of opium and
heroin into the free world. He was told by White House
officials, “Bo, there’s no one here that supports
that.” His reply, “What? vice-president Bush has been
appointed by president Reagan as the Number One
policeman to control drug entry into the United
States. How can you say there’s no interest and no
support when we bring back a video tape with a direct
interview with a man who puts 900 tons of opium and
heroin across into the free world every year and is
willing to stop it?” And they said, “Bo, what can I
tell you?”

“All I can say is there is no interest in doing that
here.”

(Lieutenant Colonel James ‘Bo’ Gritz is the most
decorated Green Beret commander of the Vietnam Era)

Any questions???

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] Holes in the brain
Date: September 10, 2002 at 9:04:03 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Perhaps a little clarification on the terminology would help.  What
exactly are you referring to when you talk about “holes” in the brain?
Assuredly, addicts aren’t walking around with large pieces of brain that
have shriveled up and died.  However, the short-term AND LONG-TERM
effects of of drug use is clearly evident in decreased cerebral blood
flow and brain activity which appears as “holes” on SPECT analysis.
Here are some visuals.
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/atlas/ch15.asp

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 10, 2002 at 7:40:56 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I just wanted to say that my partner and I don’t live off a trust fund, we
don’t live off stuff grown out the back of our shed or whatever. ¬†We run a
painting business and our biggest silly mistake has been spending so much
money on drugs in the past which is why we have nothing to show for all our
years of work and why we are trying to do different. Perhaps I missed the
message about gas ovens etc. cos I didn’t read it. ¬†¬†I know companies and
corporates are all out there to earn money and profits but I still reckon
there need to be some ethical rules and regulations set in place and upheld
or there would be chaos.  You only have to look back to the 2nd world war
and Hitler to see an example and I would have hoped people would have
learned a bit and advanced a bit more in the years since then.   Maybe its a
lost hope but if you don’t have that, what do you have.
No wonder so many people want to opt out if life is so cynical……Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Rebecca Silverman <becca_vail@hotmail.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 06:49
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

I have to agree with this. I laughed but out of a really angry message that
wound up with visions of american companies building better gas ovens that
person skipped all of it and didn’t even notice anything except the half a
sentence that related to dot.com being a pyramid scheme ūüôā Do you protest
too much? ūüôā

Patrick what’s the problem with some of the lists? The solutions sound
great
except the last paragraph ūüėČ But who is doing what to disrupt what list?

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:27:23 -0700 (PDT)

I don’t want to take away anything from what you’ve
said, I don’t know what a AMT is but it sounds like a
lousy deal.

What I found most interesting is just how everyone
only sees what relates to them. You picked two or
three words out of his entire message and went off.
Completely ignoring what he was really saying, which
wasn’t very nice, but it’s interesting ūüôā

Carla B

— Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com> wrote:

LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.

I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
SMOKE CRACK.

I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS
WORTH
OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.

EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY,
I
AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST
READ
HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED
I
OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER
HAD.

THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL
WANT
MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
NEXT 30 YEARS.

ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
MOVE
TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
THEMSELVES
OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.

FUCK YOU IDIOT.

SSSSSSSL8Z
2 EL8 4 EWE

— ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I read this list but don’t reply very often
because
I have the sense that there isn’t a point to
saying
most of what I really think. I signed up here
because of Mindvox and found by accident that
ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
most of you here fall into one of two categories,
either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
things you grow in your garden in the back of your
shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
purpose will get you sued by some of the
shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
making more money. They invested, they didn’t
donate
money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high
tech
companies jumping all over each other to get in
line
to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
should surprise nobody. If the United States
decides
next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
then there will be no shortage of companies lining
up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the
gas
ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas
ovens,
grease the zoning problems that will come up
because
of the gas ovens and write software to control the
gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
save the world or make it a better place. Anything
else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run
a
big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were
posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists
this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure
anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox
and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere
else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
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__________________________________________________
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_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 10, 2002 at 1:04:36 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

holes in yer submarine could be  sketchy..

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] re dark alliance type stuff
Date: September 9, 2002 at 9:26:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett wrote>They are not assholes, they are criminals.<

To which I say, hear, hear in a most hearty fashion!

http://www.drugwar.com/pcatchintel.shtm

How the People Seldom Catch Intelligence-
(or How to Be a Successful Drug Dealer)
by Preston Peet
posted at DrugWar.com Sept. 9, 2002
(Originally Published in “You Are Being Lied To- the Disinformation Guide to
Media Distortion, Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths”- ed. Russ Kick,
2001)
“For me, one could write about lies from morning till night, but this is the
one most worth writing about, because the domestic consequences are so
horrible; it’s contributed to police brutality, police corruption,
militarizations of police forces, and now, as we speak, it contributes to
the pretext for another Vietnam War.” Peter Dale Scott, July 24, 2000
On May 11, 2000, the US House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
made public their “Report on the Central Intelligence Agency’s Alleged
Involvement in Crack Cocaine Trafficking in the Los Angeles Area.”[1] The
investigation by the HPSCI focused solely on the “implications” of facts
reported in investigative reporter Gary Webb’s 3-part expose in the San Jose
Mercury News, August, 18, 19, and 20, 1996, titled “Dark Alliance,” in which
it was alleged that a core group of Nicaraguan Contra supporters formed an
alliance with black dealers in South Central Los Angeles to sell cocaine to
the Bloods and Crips street gangs, who turned it into crack, then the
drug-profits were funneled back to Contra coffers by the Contra supporters.
Approved for release in February, 2000, the HPSCI report states the
Committee “found no evidence” to support allegations that CIA agents or
assets associated in any way with the Nicaraguan Contra movement were
involved in the supply or sale of drugs in the Los Angeles area. Utilizing a
not-so-subtle strategy of semantics and misdirection, the HPSCI report seeks
to shore up the justifiably crumbling trust in government experienced by the
American public. But the report is still a lie.
One would have to intentionally not look to miss the copious amounts of
evidence of CIA sanctioned and protected drug-trafficking, even in LA, that
exists today in the public record, and the HPSCI succeeds admirably,
disregarding sworn testimony, government reports, and ignores what agents on
the ground at the scene have to say.
snip-
Much more continued at above URL.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: Brett Calabrese
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test NO they are NOT interested in stopping drugs
PROOF.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us
and hid THAT eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

They are not assholes, they are criminals.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/opi007.htm

snip

“The general offered to stop the flow of opium and
heroin into the free world. He was told by White House
officials, “Bo, there’s no one here that supports
that.” His reply, “What? vice-president Bush has been
appointed by president Reagan as the Number One
policeman to control drug entry into the United
States. How can you say there’s no interest and no
support when we bring back a video tape with a direct
interview with a man who puts 900 tons of opium and
heroin across into the free world every year and is
willing to stop it?” And they said, “Bo, what can I
tell you?”

“All I can say is there is no interest in doing that
here.”

(Lieutenant Colonel James ‘Bo’ Gritz is the most
decorated Green Beret commander of the Vietnam Era)

Any questions???

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 9, 2002 at 8:02:59 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

> PET scans.

I was thinking cat scan, but not sure.

i
PET = Positron Emission Tomography, which is more like NMR
than CAT (which is xray). I think it is detecting where
calories are being burned in the brain. Google: “pet scan”.

Bill

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 9, 2002 at 7:30:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Usually the areas of activity/inactivity in the brain are shown by
PET scans.

I was thinking cat scan, but not sure.

will let you know if/when i get a response.

actually… “pet scan”, I wonder if THAT points to animal cruelty???

all this talk of brain scans makes me think of that movie where they shrink a
medical team and a submarine and inject it into someones bloodstream ¬†…
“incredible journey”? can’t remember the name for sure.

maybe i have holes up there too.

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Bill Ross <ross@cgl.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 9, 2002 at 6:12:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

ask him if the methods used to find those
“holes” from crack use were in any way similar to
those used to “find” those “holes” alleged to
be created by MDMA.

Usually the areas of activity/inactivity in the brain are shown by
PET scans.

Bill Ross

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] An eXtra-Speshul Announcement
Date: September 9, 2002 at 4:25:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I never said anything about this since I figured this
was a computer not very literate group but since you
said it, in most places it is considred not necessary
to quote 500 lines of someone’s message and then write
a 5 line comment.

You could quote 50 lines that are related to your
reply but why even bother saying this. Because I’m
bored this afternoon that’s why ūüôā

Between the 500 line quotes and the incoherent haiku
one liners related to nothing that joatammo likes to
post I still prefer the 500 lines quotes because I at
least understand what they’re talking about ūüôā

.:vector:.

— Rhafner77@cs.com wrote:
jesus, how did I know this LONG message by Patrick
would be quoted totally ??
Not that I don`t think its appropriate, its
just..well, a bit redundant..
Aren`t We all together enuff to operate the
`reply`,`send` etc. buttons??

regards, larryt.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 9, 2002 at 4:29:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>I am contacting the good doctor for corraborating documents.<

Thanks Gamma, and please, ask him if the methods used to find those “holes” from crack use were in any way similar to those used to “find” those “holes” alleged to be created by MDMA. Thanks a lot. I’m eagerly awaiting this evidence to be honest. A name of the doctor would be cool too, and perhaps a name of the study as well.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story

I assure you the person I refer to is not named Wood, nor were any monkeys
involved, except maybe the monkeys living on our backs.

It may be this study wasn’t affiliated with NYU, but the Doctor does work there
now.

I am contacting the good doctor for corraborating documents.

thanks.

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> more of that NYU crack “research” horror story:
>
> http://www.idausa.org/ir/reports/ronwoodcrack.html
> >B. Severe Water Deprivation of Monkeys Also Compromises Wood’s “Animal
> Model”
> Dr. Wood acknowledged that his water deprivation of monkeys — for as long as
> 21 hours per day — was serious enough to cause serum osmolarity changes in
> the animals. Incredibly, Dr. Wood stated that he was not concerned about
> these changes, since serum osmolarity was not the focus of his research.
> Behavioral changes associated with crack inhalation were, however, a focus of
> his research. Since changes in serum osmolarity affect not only the health
> and well-being of animals, but also their cognitive abilities, Dr. Wood
> should have been very concerned about this variable. His failure to consider
> the impact on his research results of water deprivation severe enough to
> cause serum osmolarity changes is a gross oversight and consistent with Dr.
> Wood’s slipshod approach to the conduct of research.<
>
>¬†¬† —– Original Message —–
>   From: Gamma
>   To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
>   Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:27 PM
>   Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
>
>
>   The big question is does it rebuild when you detox and straighten
>   > up.  Is it repairable or not???    Its said that most of the body can
> repair
>   > itself given the right food, vitamins, treatment etc.  Does that work for
>   > the brain as well????,,Allison
>
>¬†¬† This study in question was a study done at NYU, and, I’m glad you asked
> this
>¬†¬† question because yes, the people’s brains who were studied and remained off
> of
>¬†¬† crack had brains where the “holes” either partially or entirely disapeared.
>   This took about 18 months, which is about as long as it takes to fully
> recover
>   from many brain surgeries.
>
>   Preston, Grilled swiss on rye is entirely delicious, especially with a
> variety
>   of spicy mustrads. this does not in fact have anything to do with crack
> cocaine
>   and the brain unless of course you are binge-eating after binge-cracking.
>
>   I too, am ProChoice, and crack is evil. IMHO.
>
>   just look at what its done to mr. Dross at http:www.wackycrackheads.com !
>
>   -gamma
>
>¬†¬† > —–Original Message—–
>   > From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
>   > To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
>   > Date: Monday, 9 September 2002 08:11
>   > Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
>   >
>   >
>   > >
>¬†¬† > >— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>   > >> >An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming
> results
>   > in
>¬†¬† > >> scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
>   > >> Pass the stem, yo.<
>   > >>
>¬†¬† > >> Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a
>   > similar
>   > >> story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in
> brain,
>
>
>
>   __________________________________________________
>   Do You Yahoo!?
>   Yahoo! Finance РGet real-time stock quotes
>   http://finance.yahoo.com
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
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From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 9, 2002 at 3:49:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I assure you the person I refer to is not named Wood, nor were any monkeys
involved, except maybe the monkeys living on our backs.

It may be this study wasn’t affiliated with NYU, but the Doctor does work there
now.

I am contacting the good doctor for corraborating documents.

thanks.

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
more of that NYU crack “research” horror story:

http://www.idausa.org/ir/reports/ronwoodcrack.html
B. Severe Water Deprivation of Monkeys Also Compromises Wood’s “Animal
Model”
Dr. Wood acknowledged that his water deprivation of monkeys — for as long as
21 hours per day — was serious enough to cause serum osmolarity changes in
the animals. Incredibly, Dr. Wood stated that he was not concerned about
these changes, since serum osmolarity was not the focus of his research.
Behavioral changes associated with crack inhalation were, however, a focus of
his research. Since changes in serum osmolarity affect not only the health
and well-being of animals, but also their cognitive abilities, Dr. Wood
should have been very concerned about this variable. His failure to consider
the impact on his research results of water deprivation severe enough to
cause serum osmolarity changes is a gross oversight and consistent with Dr.
Wood’s slipshod approach to the conduct of research.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

The big question is does it rebuild when you detox and straighten
up.  Is it repairable or not???    Its said that most of the body can
repair
itself given the right food, vitamins, treatment etc.  Does that work for
the brain as well????,,Allison

This study in question was a study done at NYU, and, I’m glad you asked
this
question because yes, the people’s brains who were studied and remained off
of
crack had brains where the “holes” either partially or entirely disapeared.
This took about 18 months, which is about as long as it takes to fully
recover
from many brain surgeries.

Preston, Grilled swiss on rye is entirely delicious, especially with a
variety
of spicy mustrads. this does not in fact have anything to do with crack
cocaine
and the brain unless of course you are binge-eating after binge-cracking.

I too, am ProChoice, and crack is evil. IMHO.

just look at what its done to mr. Dross at http:www.wackycrackheads.com !

-gamma

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 9 September 2002 08:11
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming
results
in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
Pass the stem, yo.<

Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a
similar
story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in
brain,

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] holes in brains resulting from crack cocaine etc use
Date: September 9, 2002 at 3:42:12 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Preston et al

Here’s a thing: after yrs of drugs-user ‘counselling’/harm reduction work, prefaced by training in groupwork, psych degree and failing to see any 1 program of recovery that gave all the answewrs, I got bored and returned to school 1st time in 1999.
I studied Social Research Methods, where I affrimed 2 things 4 myself : 1) People choose the research they do based on what they believe in, in order to proove what they believe in, 2) That stats can be shafted about to fit the conclusion one wants, and that 3) scientists are also uncrupulous and so PP, I do not trust MOST of them. 2 yrs ago in the UV, I wrote something about shifting the data in both ways based on who’s written it: that is IF it had a prohibitionist stance, I would bring it in 4 notches, IF it was our guys, I’d bring it in 2, maybe 3, dependent on how well I knew the researchers in question.

In 1988, I was astonished to find my ‘Experimental Psych’ lecturer mess about with the results of an experiment cos they didn’t agree with his initial hypotheses..

The AIDS crisis in IDU’s was getting intense and a gay ex-IDU pal asked me to help him set up MAINLINERS, so I didn’t need too much of an excuse to not get Brit Psch Assoc. membership.

What a dork that lecturer was; he was also the same man who¬† told me AFTER he knew my lover had AIDS, that he would never swim in the same pool as PWAs (and that he’d never give me a reference to study social work, based on my past.)

Oddly enough, he did choose to come to our wedding ceremony in the company of 25 PWAs..

Code: PWAs = People with AIDS.

andria

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] more NYU crack “research” horror story
Date: September 9, 2002 at 3:18:33 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

more of that NYU crack “research” horror story:

http://www.idausa.org/ir/reports/ronwoodcrack.html
>B. Severe Water Deprivation of Monkeys Also Compromises Wood’s “Animal Model”
Dr. Wood acknowledged that his water deprivation of monkeys — for as long as 21 hours per day — was serious enough to cause serum osmolarity changes in the animals. Incredibly, Dr. Wood stated that he was not concerned about these changes, since serum osmolarity was not the focus of his research. Behavioral changes associated with crack inhalation were, however, a focus of his research. Since changes in serum osmolarity affect not only the health and well-being of animals, but also their cognitive abilities, Dr. Wood should have been very concerned about this variable. His failure to consider the impact on his research results of water deprivation severe enough to cause serum osmolarity changes is a gross oversight and consistent with Dr. Wood’s slipshod approach to the conduct of research.<
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

The big question is does it rebuild when you detox and straighten
> up.  Is it repairable or not???    Its said that most of the body can repair
> itself given the right food, vitamins, treatment etc.  Does that work for
> the brain as well????,,Allison

This study in question was a study done at NYU, and, I’m glad you asked this
question because yes, the people’s brains who were studied and remained off of
crack had brains where the “holes” either partially or entirely disapeared.
This took about 18 months, which is about as long as it takes to fully recover
from many brain surgeries.

Preston, Grilled swiss on rye is entirely delicious, especially with a variety
of spicy mustrads. this does not in fact have anything to do with crack cocaine
and the brain unless of course you are binge-eating after binge-cracking.

I too, am ProChoice, and crack is evil. IMHO.

just look at what its done to mr. Dross at http:www.wackycrackheads.com !

-gamma

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Date: Monday, 9 September 2002 08:11
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
>
>
> >
> >— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results
> in
> >> scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
> >> Pass the stem, yo.<
> >>
> >> Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a
> similar
> >> story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain,

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] NYU “study?” of holes in brains resulting from crack cocaine use
Date: September 9, 2002 at 3:11:52 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

First on the story of holes in brains,
I’m genuinely curious- Is the following the NYU “study” you are citing as evidence that crack cocaine use causes holes in brains? Because if you are, I seriously suggest you rethink your position. If you are not, I’d love to see what other study or studies NYU has done on the effects of crack cocaine use on brains.

http://www.idausa.org/ir/reports/ronwoodcrack.html

Ron Wood’s crack-smoking experiments:
A case study of waste, fraud and animal abuse
A Report By In Defense of Animals
September 1996

Overview
Dr. Wood’s crack-smoking experiments on monkeys were halted last year amidst a national scandal and federal charges for animal welfare violations. The experiments had previously been suspended pending the results of two federal investigations. After his grant from the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) expired in August 1995, Dr. Wood, according to an NYU spokesperson, took an “indefinite” leave of absence from NYU. Dr. Wood recently re-surfaced at the University of Rochester. Following a one-year hiatus, NIDA re-funded Dr. Wood’s experiments to the tune of $420,000 per year, despite overwhelming evidence that Dr. Wood had committed scientific fraud as well as animal abuse.

Background
In October 1993, based on internal documentation obtained from whistleblowers, In Defense of Animals (IDA) filed formal complaints with the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH)’s Office for Protection from Research Risk (OPRR) alleging inadequate veterinary care and program-wide abuses at NYU during the conduct of Dr. Wood’s experiments. Both agencies upheld IDA’s allegations. In fact, the USDA filed formal charges against NYU in April 1995 specifically regarding Dr. Wood’s multiple violations of federal law governing animal research. The USDA formally cited Dr. Wood’s failure to provide adequate veterinary care to three monkeys who needlessly died directly because of his veterinary and scientific negligence, and his failure to inform the NYUMC IACUC for over one year of his severe but unnecessary 21 hours per day water deprivation. This past summer, NYU settled these and other charges by agreeing to pay $450,000 — by far the largest fine ever assessed against a research institution for violations of
the Animal Welfare Act. In addition, NIH OPRR found a veritable laundry list of Public Health Service (PHS) Policy violations committed by NYUMC and Dr. Wood, including the violations that formed the basis of the formal USDA charges.

Scientific fraud and violations of federal law by Dr. Wood

A. Use of Compromised “Animal Models”
The record of the OPRR investigation of NYU Medical Center, as well as internal NYU documents obtained by IDA, clearly demonstrate that Dr. Wood re-used in his crack experiments monkeys who had been previously used in his toluene inhalation experiments. These monkeys suffered from liver and other serious organ damage sustained in the toluene experiments. No valid scientific data could be collected from these animals. Furthermore, despite the fact that toluene is well-known and documented to cause damage to the liver, central nervous system, kidneys and heart, Dr. Wood failed to conduct even basic health screening on these monkeys before using them in his crack experiments.

In attempting to explain this serious negligence, Dr. Wood cited the separation of veterinary responsibility from his own scientific activities. However, proper veterinary care is an integral part of any animal experiment. Thus, it is the responsibility of the investigator to ensure that adequate veterinary care is provided to the animal subjects. This fact is even more important in Dr. Wood’s case, since he had personal knowledge of the animals’ previous exposure to toluene and other drugs of abuse, having conducted the experiments himself. Had Dr. Wood conducted even a cursory literature search, or read the material safety data sheet on toluene, he would have seen that toluene causes liver and brain damage. Such searches are standard procedure for anyone conducting research on animals. Indeed, how can any researcher conduct experiments on living animals without first investigating the physiological effects of the drugs under study? The consequences of such dereliction to both the integrity of the data as well as the welfare of the animals are clear.

To make matters worse, Dr. Wood appears to have engaged in deception to cover himself after three monkeys needlessly died under his care in January-February 1993. When the NYUMC IACUC confronted Dr. Wood with the documented damage to the liver and brain caused by toluene, thus calling into question his research design, animal care and overall protocol, Dr. Wood used a 1981 citation to claim that toluene was not hepatotoxic. In doing so, Dr. Wood ignored the overwhelming scientific evidence documenting the toxic effects of toluene on the liver and other organs — evidence available to any lay person who searches the literature. Even if Dr. Wood unknowingly overlooked the wealth of scientific data about toluene toxicity (including the material data sheet), this does not bode well for his scientific integrity because it means that Dr. Wood was conducting toluene research on animals without adequately researching the biologic effect of the drug on the animals. The NYUMC IACUC informed Dr. Wood that toluene was, in fact, hepatotoxic and instructed him to correct his statement to the contrary.

In addition, because of his inability and/or unwillingness to conduct his research according to accepted scientific standards, Dr. Wood never performed routine blood chemistries on the monkeys, which should be a prerequisite for any research into animals’ responses to drugs, let alone drugs known to cause serious organ damage. Such tests on the monkeys in Dr. Wood’s lab would have revealed the animals’ abnormal liver function results. Indeed, necropsies on these monkeys revealed liver damage consistent with toluene toxicity that is cited in the medical literature in two of the three animals; the third animal’s liver was inexplicably not examined at necropsy.

As a result of the three monkey deaths, the NYUMC IACUC forced Dr. Wood to perform routine blood chemistries on the surviving monkeys in his colony. Dr. Wood should have been conducting these tests from the beginning of his experiments. Preliminary results revealed that four of the seven animals in his colony showed abnormal liver results; the IACUC mandated further tests to see if the three others had sub-clinical damage. The IACUC also pointed that not only anesthesia, but also the very drugs Dr. Wood was testing, are cleared by the liver, further calling into question the scientific validity of Dr. Wood’s program. Yet even after the three monkeys’ deaths, Dr. Wood proposed to perform blood chemistries on the surviving monkeys in his lab only twice a year, indicating that he chose to remain either ignorant or apathetic regarding the monkeys’ liver function despite the needless deaths of three monkeys, and demonstrating once again why he should not be allowed to conduct any research on animals.

Moreover, toluene also causes brain damage, which Dr. Wood would have known if he had consulted the literature or the material data sheet. At necropsy, Dr. Wood failed to ensure that the brains of the three monkeys were examined. This is a very serious oversight, given toluene’s effect on the central nervous system. However, since two of the three monkeys’ livers showed damage at necropsy (as previously mentioned, the liver of the third was inexplicably not examined), it is likely that the other major target organ of toluene — the brain — was also affected in these monkeys. As a psychologist, Dr. Wood should have been keenly interested in brain damage, particularly since he was supposed to be studying the behavioral effects of toluene and crack cocaine.

It is clear that Dr. Wood’s failure to investigate or understand the damage to vital organs caused by exposure to toluene calls into serious question any results >from his experiments. Dr. Wood was studying crack inhalation on sick animals and, accordingly, his “results” were, at best, suspect, and could provide false and misleading information if applied to the development of therapies for human drug addicts.

B. Severe Water Deprivation of Monkeys Also Compromises Wood’s “Animal Model”
Dr. Wood acknowledged that his water deprivation of monkeys — for as long as 21 hours per day — was serious enough to cause serum osmolarity changes in the animals. Incredibly, Dr. Wood stated that he was not concerned about these changes, since serum osmolarity was not the focus of his research. Behavioral changes associated with crack inhalation were, however, a focus of his research. Since changes in serum osmolarity affect not only the health and well-being of animals, but also their cognitive abilities, Dr. Wood should have been very concerned about this variable. His failure to consider the impact on his research results of water deprivation severe enough to cause serum osmolarity changes is a gross oversight and consistent with Dr. Wood’s slipshod approach to the conduct of research.

Dr. Wood also failed to inform the NYUMC IACUC for over one year of his 21 hours per day water deprivation of the monkeys. When asked by the IACUC to provide literature citations for the 21 hours per day, he instead provided references for 18 hours per day deprivation, once again demonstrating his inability and/or unwillingness to adhere to accepted scientific standards and search the literature to justify his experimental protocol. Dr. Wood’s severe water deprivation regimen came to the attention of the IACUC only after a technician in Dr. Wood’s lab wrote of her concern about the signs of extreme thirst in the animals. Moreover, Dr. Wood informed the IACUC that he checked the patency of the animals’ automatic water supply only if the animals stopped eating solid food (presumably because of excessive thirst). He was thus using the animals’ solid food intake as the indicator for the functioning of the water supply! Only after the IACUC pointed out the inadequacy of this “method” did Dr. Wood change his procedure.<
snip-
In still forming fetuses in the womb, it appears that although the “crack baby” syndrome is itself mostly a myth, there¬†can be¬†serious repurcusion for some in the womb if the mother is smoking crack.

http://www.fas.org/drugs/issue4.htm
snip-
>After the child leaves the hospital the situation does not improve. Crack using mothers are not very loving or giving mothers in general (Hawley et al, 1995) and as a consequence their children do not learn these interpersonal skills very well. They may have permanent change in their brain wave patterns with unknown long-term results. (Prichep et al, 1995) Because cocaine is a powerful vasoconstrictor, vascular accidents may occur in utero, leaving poorly vascularized or even missing portions of the gastro-intestinal tract or, more commonly, leaving similar areas in the brain. Poorly vascularized areas leave leukomalacia (softening and scarring of the white matter of the brain) especially in the basal ganglia or around the ventricles and totally unvascularized areas leave porencephalic cysts (literally holes in the brains) (Cohen et al, 1994). My clinical experience suggests that these lesions do not disappear and may result in any outcome from no apparent damage to permanent and severe motor or developmental delay (in plainer English, cerebral palsy and/or mental retardation).<
snip-

and here’s how they sold the “MDMA causes holes in brains” story to the masses:
http://www.cerebral.org/Maps/msg03613.html
snip-
>It’s a confusing picture, so New Scientist asked some leading independent
scientists to look at the evidence afresh.  What we learned was that the
probes used in the scanning studies have serious deficiencies and that
despite the poster depiction of “your brain on ecstasy”, there never was-and
never has been — a typical scan showing the typical brain of a long-term
ecstasy user.

“There are no holes in the brains of ecstasy users,” says Stephen Kish, a
neuropathologist at the Center for Addiction and Health in Toronto.¬† “And if
anyone wants a straightforward answer to whether ecstasy causes any brain
damage, it’s impossible to get one from these papers.” Marc Laruelle, a
Columbia University expert on brain scanning probes, agrees: “All the papers
have very significant scientific limitations that make me uneasy.”

According to both experts, the key flaw in the 1998 study is the sheer
variability of the measurements.  Some control brains performed up to 40
times better than others, and even some of the ecstasy brains outshone
control brains by factors of 10 or more — a level of scatter that both
experts say is unprecedented in this type of study.  According to Kish, the
huge variations seen even in the healthy controls are a sure sign that the
probe failed to give precise and reliable measurements.¬† It’s taken years for
the problem to surface, says Kish, because the full range of the scatter is
obscured in the original paper by the unusual way the researchers analysed
their findings, converting the raw brain scan measurements into logarithms
before plotting them out.

So why the unreliability? Laruelle says the probes used in all the ecstasy
brain scan studies don’t always stick just to serotonin transporters and
should therefore only be used in certain brain areas.  In recent years, his
team has established that only the midbrain, thalamus and striatum have
enough serotonin transporters to give reliable readings.  None of the ecstasy
studies focused exclusively on these structures.  The Edinburgh team looked
only at the cerebral cortex.<

—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

The big question is does it rebuild when you detox and straighten
> up.  Is it repairable or not???    Its said that most of the body can repair
> itself given the right food, vitamins, treatment etc.  Does that work for
> the brain as well????,,Allison

This study in question was a study done at NYU, and, I’m glad you asked this
question because yes, the people’s brains who were studied and remained off of
crack had brains where the “holes” either partially or entirely disapeared.
This took about 18 months, which is about as long as it takes to fully recover
from many brain surgeries.

Preston, Grilled swiss on rye is entirely delicious, especially with a variety
of spicy mustrads. this does not in fact have anything to do with crack cocaine
and the brain unless of course you are binge-eating after binge-cracking.

I too, am ProChoice, and crack is evil. IMHO.

just look at what its done to mr. Dross at http:www.wackycrackheads.com !

-gamma

> —–Original Message—–
> From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
> To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> Date: Monday, 9 September 2002 08:11
> Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
>
>
> >
> >— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >> >An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results
> in
> >> scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
> >> Pass the stem, yo.<
> >>
> >> Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a
> similar
> >> story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain,

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 9, 2002 at 3:07:46 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

No, you were right, both Ibogaine and LSD were successfully used to treat alcoholism!

Marko

At 20:33 9.9.2002, you wrote:
oh, oops, ibogaine, not lsd, scuse me, don’t know what I was thinking.
Please disregard prior reply.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test

>If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!<

I could swear, but don’t have the few minutes to look it up right now, that LSD was used quite successfully, if in limited cases, in the treatment of alcoholism before it was illegalized.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test

It was mainly point #3, most likely…mind control experimentation.
Fascinating reading…check out sources on “MK-ULTRA.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> AndriaE@aol.com 09/09/02 12:06PM >>>
I had no idea that Ibogaine was available since the ”50s; this is the
first
time I’ve read read this.

And the CIA investigated it and then locked it away…. let me hazard a
few
guesses aas to why that might have been (as opposed to they hate us and
don’t
want us to ‘get better.’

1) Administrations change and if something isn’t PRIORITISED, new
administrators ignore, or overlook it

2) They decided that it needed investigation but nobody was willing to
do the
research

3) They knew of its ‘psychedelic’ qualities and decided they’d use it
in mind
control of other groups, e.g. soldiers or whomever..

4) There was generally not enough interest in it from people who were
professionals in the field

I’m as prone to anyone – if not too much – in believing that they just
didn’t
give a dam about addict drug users (ADUs) BUT I prefer to think
positively/practically if/when I can to save my onw sanity..my rage
ocassionally overwhelms me.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

Good to hr from U again
andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: LSD curing alcoholism?
Date: September 9, 2002 at 2:51:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is true.

There are doctors in London today who still want to use it but..

And there is one psychiatrist here who has succesfully detoxed folk with Ketamine (K)

I tried K once, (after hearing him speak highly of it) and felt like somebody had hit me over the head with frying pan 4 the first few mins, and then hated the fact that I was forced to lie down at a (psychonauts party,) as opposed to get up, dance, chat, discuss and flirt – my fave activities! Don’t think I’ll be experimenting with that again!

From: “Rebecca Silverman” <becca_vail@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 9, 2002 at 2:48:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I have to agree with this. I laughed but out of a really angry message that wound up with visions of american companies building better gas ovens that person skipped all of it and didn’t even notice anything except the half a sentence that related to dot.com being a pyramid scheme ūüôā Do you protest too much? ūüôā

Patrick what’s the problem with some of the lists? The solutions sound great except the last paragraph ūüėČ But who is doing what to disrupt what list?

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:27:23 -0700 (PDT)

I don’t want to take away anything from what you’ve
said, I don’t know what a AMT is but it sounds like a
lousy deal.

What I found most interesting is just how everyone
only sees what relates to them. You picked two or
three words out of his entire message and went off.
Completely ignoring what he was really saying, which
wasn’t very nice, but it’s interesting ūüôā

Carla B

— Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
> BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.
>
> I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
> SMOKE CRACK.
>
> I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
> DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS
> WORTH
> OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.
>
> EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
> DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
> NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
> YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
> GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY,
> I
> AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.
>
> DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST
> READ
> HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
> THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
> MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED
> I
> OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER
> HAD.
>
> THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL
> WANT
> MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
> NEXT 30 YEARS.
>
> ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
> MOVE
> TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
> THEMSELVES
> OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
> GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.
>
> FUCK YOU IDIOT.
>
> SSSSSSSL8Z
> 2 EL8 4 EWE
>
> — ascending@hushmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > I read this list but don’t reply very often
> because
> > I have the sense that there isn’t a point to
> saying
> > most of what I really think. I signed up here
> > because of Mindvox and found by accident that
> > ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
> > have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
> > afterwards.
> >
> > I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
> > most of you here fall into one of two categories,
> > either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
> > or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
> > scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
> > things you grow in your garden in the back of your
> > shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.
> >
> > Most of you are lost in space.
> >
> > This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
> > say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
> > saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
> > corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
> > money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
> > purpose will get you sued by some of the
> > shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
> > making more money. They invested, they didn’t
> donate
> > money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
> > whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
> > group.
> >
> > That entire article Curtis reposted about high
> tech
> > companies jumping all over each other to get in
> line
> > to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
> > should surprise nobody. If the United States
> decides
> > next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
> > country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
> > then there will be no shortage of companies lining
> > up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
> > ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the
> gas
> > ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas
> ovens,
> > grease the zoning problems that will come up
> because
> > of the gas ovens and write software to control the
> > gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
> > to kill more people.
> >
> > The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
> > save the world or make it a better place. Anything
> > else you want to believe is your own delusion.
> >
> > >This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
> > getting a really
> > > bad
> > >reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run
> a
> > big percent
> > >age of the
> > >porn and child porn sites which has been another
> > argument.;   P
> > >erhaps they
> > >need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
> > together…..A
> > >llison.
> > >—–Original Message—–
> > >From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
> > >To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
> > >Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
> > >Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
> >
> >
> > >>
> > >>A public service announcement to any of you who
> > >>receive mail on yahoo which right now
> > unfortunately is
> > >>me too.
> > >>
> > >>Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were
> > posted
> > >>to some of the full disclosure mailing lists
> this
> > >>morning.
> > >>
> > >>If you are using yahoo you should make sure
> > anything
> > >>you want to stay private is out of your mailbox
> > and
> > >>your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere
> > else.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>.:vector:.
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >>__________________________________________________
> > >>Do You Yahoo!?
> > >>Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
> > >>http://finance.yahoo.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > Get your free encrypted email at
> > https://www.hushmail.com
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 9, 2002 at 2:33:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

oh, oops, ibogaine, not lsd, scuse me, don’t know what I was thinking.
Please disregard prior reply.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: preston peet
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test

>If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!<

I could swear, but don’t have the few minutes to look it up right now, that LSD was used quite successfully, if in limited cases,¬†in the treatment of alcoholism before it was illegalized.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test

It was mainly point #3, most likely…mind control experimentation.
Fascinating reading…check out sources on “MK-ULTRA.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> AndriaE@aol.com 09/09/02 12:06PM >>>
I had no idea that Ibogaine was available since the ”50s; this is the
first
time I’ve read read this.

And the CIA investigated it and then locked it away…. let me hazard a
few
guesses aas to why that might have been (as opposed to they hate us and
don’t
want us to ‘get better.’

1) Administrations change and if something isn’t PRIORITISED, new
administrators ignore, or overlook it

2) They decided that it needed investigation but nobody was willing to
do the
research

3) They knew of its ‘psychedelic’ qualities and decided they’d use it
in mind
control of other groups, e.g. soldiers or whomever..

4) There was generally not enough interest in it from people who were
professionals in the field

I’m as prone to anyone – if not too much – in believing that they just
didn’t
give a dam about addict drug users (ADUs) BUT I prefer to think
positively/practically if/when I can to save my onw sanity..my rage
ocassionally overwhelms me.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

Good to hr from U again
andria

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 9, 2002 at 2:32:07 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!<

I could swear, but don’t have the few minutes to look it up right now, that LSD was used quite successfully, if in limited cases,¬†in the treatment of alcoholism before it was illegalized.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Rick Venglarcik
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test

It was mainly point #3, most likely…mind control experimentation.
Fascinating reading…check out sources on “MK-ULTRA.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

>>> AndriaE@aol.com 09/09/02 12:06PM >>>
I had no idea that Ibogaine was available since the ”50s; this is the
first
time I’ve read read this.

And the CIA investigated it and then locked it away…. let me hazard a
few
guesses aas to why that might have been (as opposed to they hate us and
don’t
want us to ‘get better.’

1) Administrations change and if something isn’t PRIORITISED, new
administrators ignore, or overlook it

2) They decided that it needed investigation but nobody was willing to
do the
research

3) They knew of its ‘psychedelic’ qualities and decided they’d use it
in mind
control of other groups, e.g. soldiers or whomever..

4) There was generally not enough interest in it >from people who were
professionals in the field

I’m as prone to anyone – if not too much – in believing that they just
didn’t
give a dam about addict drug users (ADUs) BUT I prefer to think
positively/practically if/when I can to save my onw sanity..my rage
ocassionally overwhelms me.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

Good to hr from U again
andria

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 9, 2002 at 2:27:57 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The big question is does it rebuild when you detox and straighten
up.  Is it repairable or not???    Its said that most of the body can repair
itself given the right food, vitamins, treatment etc.  Does that work for
the brain as well????,,Allison

This study in question was a study done at NYU, and, I’m glad you asked this
question because yes, the people’s brains who were studied and remained off of
crack had brains where the “holes” either partially or entirely disapeared.
This took about 18 months, which is about as long as it takes to fully recover
from many brain surgeries.

Preston, Grilled swiss on rye is entirely delicious, especially with a variety
of spicy mustrads. this does not in fact have anything to do with crack cocaine
and the brain unless of course you are binge-eating after binge-cracking.

I too, am ProChoice, and crack is evil. IMHO.

just look at what its done to mr. Dross at http:www.wackycrackheads.com !

-gamma

—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 9 September 2002 08:11
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results
in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
Pass the stem, yo.<

Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a
similar
story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain,

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] About crack-cocaine.
Date: September 9, 2002 at 1:47:38 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>As somebody who has used Crack regularly for a short while, I’d say that my behavior became quite odd; fear driven and too intense to function on.. <

Yeah, and as someone who also used crack regularly on and off for a few years, only managing to stop going back to the shit when I discovered how much more fun shooting cocaine with heroin, rather than trying to hit my stem and shoot up simultaneously, shooting speedballs for a couple more years, I wonder: If the stuff causes holes in brains, where are the holes in my brains, what part are they in, and if they are there somewhere, are they actually doing anything harmful now that I am NOT using cocaine in any form? (killing brain cells sure, but only the weak ones die, as the old saying goes)
And it’s not that I don’t believe anything “they” say, but I am skeptical of everything nowadays, no matter what the source, until I’ve looked at it a bit and tried to find corroborating or negating evidence.
Peace,
Preston

—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] About crack-cocaine.

Don’t U believe ANYTHING they say then Preston
I know you have good grounds for not believing most of what they say but SURELY they tell the truth sometimes??!

As for CRACK-head’s brains looking like Swiss Cheese – mmh – I’d need a brain doctors opinion on that one, preferably from our side of the debate.

As somebody who has used Crack regularly for a short while, I’d say that my behaviour became quite odd; fear driven and too intense to function on..

Generally though, I thought it was a highly overrated substance and FAR too expensive a habit to even consider using indefinitely since it is Soooo expensive, and for what? a 4 minute rush?¬† I don’t think so!
Even when I did have a money to waste, I found heroin to be far more stabilising as it is a PAIN-KILLER, and lasts for several hours.

andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MDMA harmfulness exaggerated
Date: September 9, 2002 at 1:26:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris

1 Answer to your VITAL connundrum might be 4 those of us who do use illicit drugs to de-robe, come out of the closet, speak out in many places including all the corridors of power, ESPECIALLy if we are prepared to be as informed as possible B$ we begin to speak (this last sentence has been a prob 4 me too many times.)
AND last night, I was with 2 fellow X-addict buddies in the serenti of the Welsh hills, and they reminded me that MANY politicians actually DO KNOW that prohibition of some drugs has been …^^%%^$&^¬£¬£¬£!!!!! U know what I mean BUT that they cannot/will not come out and say so B4 the people have put enough pressure on them.

Andria

Does anybody on this list know how Karina’s doing? Did she get more Iboga, or ? (Sorry; I know it could be 100% confidential info too, but if it isn’t, someone please answer this.)

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test NO they are NOT interested in stopping drugs PROOF.
Date: September 9, 2002 at 1:19:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us
and hid THAT eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

They are not assholes, they are criminals.

http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/opi007.htm

snip

“The general offered to stop the flow of opium and
heroin into the free world. He was told by White House
officials, “Bo, there’s no one here that supports
that.” His reply, “What? vice-president Bush has been
appointed by president Reagan as the Number One
policeman to control drug entry into the United
States. How can you say there’s no interest and no
support when we bring back a video tape with a direct
interview with a man who puts 900 tons of opium and
heroin across into the free world every year and is
willing to stop it?” And they said, “Bo, what can I
tell you?”

“All I can say is there is no interest in doing that
here.”

(Lieutenant Colonel James ‘Bo’ Gritz is the most
decorated Green Beret commander of the Vietnam Era)

Any questions???

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy, brains looking like cheese etc
Date: September 9, 2002 at 1:06:49 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Alison

Yr question about whether the brain repairs itself (as other human organs can) is a great one.

Howard – U around to answer that one?

From the small bit of info I do recall from my psych BSc, I think the thing about the brain that always impressed me was that we have soooooooooooo many brain cells, destroying a few million wouldn’t necessarily make that much difference, but then again, I’m no brain surgeon, or autopsy doctor.

Besides, I like to think my brain works roughly the same on and off drugs; it’s my thinking that seems to go awol ON drugs, and that will be as much to do with the 30 yrs of anti-drug brainwashing I’ve expereinced as anything. And that bit certainly needs talk-therapy!!!! I call it DP Reform activism, but it has other names…

I did read somewhere recently that stimulants have a tendency to burn the end of some nerve-cells, whilst you are high on the drug, not to mention the overabundance of dopamine etc that happens with these drugs and then the crash after (yuk!!)

I wonder if there is ANYBODY on the planet who has not been so brainwashed by different drug ideologies that they could answer this question as honestly, and as op to date as possible too. (The prob with life in general is we simply do NOT have all then knowledge and info we need) sometimes

andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] An eXtra-Speshul Announcement
Date: September 9, 2002 at 12:57:29 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick

Get on a plane and kick their bitch ass? )Or whatever it is U wrote..

I am surprised at U – really. And cos I know you’re sense of ironic humour, I will definitely NOT jump on a plane…. etc. Besides, I always lost physical fights – often cos the person I was stabbing etc was me.

And mayb, U.K./U.S. govt’s current plan to f-over Iraq has inspired U? I doubt it.

Bombing Iraq’s gonna make it all better hah; we’ll kill/whatever Saddam Hussein, and there will never be any more probs in the middle-east. Is it just me that wants to stick needles in her arms over this? I wish the peace/love fairy would come and magically wisk Bush/Blair into an Ibogaine trip and WAKE THEM UP

But then again, there’s always the ever-growing “Stop the War” campaigns in many different countries

andria mordaunt

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Money/America/coporations and so on..
Date: September 9, 2002 at 12:47:32 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Mmm.

Dear ‘Useless Account’
Sorry about your losses, and (probably) the person U are calling names isn’t responsible 4 those losses?

The more I hear from y’all in the U.S., the more I recall the words of my late husband, who had a very extreme suggestion of what should be done with America – too extreme to even put into words here, and¬† ocassionally, I wonder if he didn’t just have a point. I even wonder if his incredible ability to remember facts (without much of a ‘formal’ education) made his able to have almost phrophetic vision

Who knows? Anyways, U probably didn’t know him, so this is irrelevant to U. On the other hand…. Sounds like Cananda might be a safer place 4 U; D’u know how their markets etc work?

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] About crack-cocaine.
Date: September 9, 2002 at 12:13:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Don’t U believe ANYTHING they say then Preston
I know you have good grounds for not believing most of what they say but SURELY they tell the truth sometimes??!

As for CRACK-head’s brains looking like Swiss Cheese – mmh – I’d need a brain doctors opinion on that one, preferably from our side of the debate.

As somebody who has used Crack regularly for a short while, I’d say that my behaviour became quite odd; fear driven and too intense to function on..

Generally though, I thought it was a highly overrated substance and FAR too expensive a habit to even consider using indefinitely since it is Soooo expensive, and for what? a 4 minute rush?¬† I don’t think so!
Even when I did have a money to waste, I found heroin to be far more stabilising as it is a PAIN-KILLER, and lasts for several hours.

andria

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 9, 2002 at 12:11:58 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It was mainly point #3, most likely…mind control experimentation.
Fascinating reading…check out sources on “MK-ULTRA.”

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

AndriaE@aol.com 09/09/02 12:06PM >>>
I had no idea that Ibogaine was available since the ”50s; this is the
first
time I’ve read read this.

And the CIA investigated it and then locked it away…. let me hazard a
few
guesses aas to why that might have been (as opposed to they hate us and
don’t
want us to ‘get better.’

1) Administrations change and if something isn’t PRIORITISED, new
administrators ignore, or overlook it

2) They decided that it needed investigation but nobody was willing to
do the
research

3) They knew of its ‘psychedelic’ qualities and decided they’d use it
in mind
control of other groups, e.g. soldiers or whomever..

4) There was generally not enough interest in it from people who were
professionals in the field

I’m as prone to anyone – if not too much – in believing that they just
didn’t
give a dam about addict drug users (ADUs) BUT I prefer to think
positively/practically if/when I can to save my onw sanity..my rage
ocassionally overwhelms me.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT
eveidence,
then I would say they were assholes!

Good to hr from U again
andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 9, 2002 at 12:06:35 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I had no idea that Ibogaine was available since the ”50s; this is the first time I’ve read read this.

And the CIA investigated it and then locked it away…. let me hazard a few guesses aas to why that might have been (as opposed to they hate us and don’t want us to ‘get better.’

1) Administrations change and if something isn’t PRIORITISED, new administrators ignore, or overlook it

2) They decided that it needed investigation but nobody was willing to do the research

3) They knew of its ‘psychedelic’ qualities and decided they’d use it in mind control of other groups, e.g. soldiers or whomever..

4) There was generally not enough interest in it from people who were professionals in the field

I’m as prone to anyone – if not too much – in believing that they just didn’t give a dam about addict drug users (ADUs) BUT I prefer to think positively/practically if/when I can to save my onw sanity..my rage ocassionally overwhelms me.

If you’re saying they knew it worked in detoxing us and hid THAT eveidence, then I would say they were assholes!

Good to hr from U again
andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: [ibogaine] Fwd: [drugwar] Picture of a Vision
Date: September 9, 2002 at 9:11:07 AM EDT
To: Ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Forwarding this one; question about whether Ibogaine can ‘cure’/stop all drug addictons including Nicotine?
andria
From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Picture of a Vision
Date: September 7, 2002 at 9:17:43 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: drugwar@mindvox.com

LOL
I for one don’t know much about history, don’t know much about biology…oh, wait a minute, that’s a song.
I meant to write, ¬†I don’t personally know much about Ibogaine, never having tried it.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: drugwar@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 4:56 AM
Subject: Re: [drugwar] Picture of a Vision

Chris

What a beautifyl Vision to wake up to. Thanx a trillion for the Iboga plant.

I think Preston knows abit more about Iboga than me, but I believe that it can stop many different kinds of chemical addictions including tranquilsers & tobacco even?
Preston (or anyone else), know any more details?

a

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 9, 2002 at 5:34:24 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I reckon if thats the case all of us who are or have been users probably
have brain scans that look like swiss cheese.  Am sure that opiates, alcohol
and all sorts of other substances have the same effect.
I’m not sure I would want to see a scan of my brain after the years of
abuse.   The big question is does it rebuild when you detox and straighten
up.  Is it repairable or not???    Its said that most of the body can repair
itself given the right food, vitamins, treatment etc.  Does that work for
the brain as well????,,Allison
—–Original Message—–
From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Monday, 9 September 2002 08:11
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results
in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
Pass the stem, yo.<

Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a
similar
story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain,
now
could it?
Peace,
Preston

well, this Doc is far from a prohibitionist, but shall remain nameless, or
rename mainless or something like that. Now P, could you possibly, maybe,
just
perhaps be Pro-Crack? or maybe you just like grilled swiss on Rye?

:^)

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Rhafner77@cs.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] An eXtra-Speshul Announcement
Date: September 9, 2002 at 12:27:03 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

jesus, how did I know this LONG message by Patrick would be quoted totally ?? Not that I don`t think its appropriate, its just..well, a bit redundant.. Aren`t We all together enuff to operate the `reply`,`send` etc. buttons??
regards, larryt.

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] An eXtra-Speshul Announcement
Date: September 8, 2002 at 10:55:06 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick I wanted to say thanks for posting all that.
You have given a lot of thought to all this or I guess
it all happened over time as you dealt with it before.
Not to dis you, I would have expected the last
paragraph but not the rest. Right up until the last
paragraph that was almost Ghandi like patience ūüėČ

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:

Okay, I have received a couple of requests in the
last day, which are all
on the same topic, so I’m just gonna post a general
NOTE to many of the
lists which are effected by this.

The problem some of you are experiencing is that of
people who are
disrupting the flow of conversation on various
lists.

We started interacting online in the late 70’s and
early 80’s; the
original MindVox predates the world wide web by
several years — basically
what I wanna express is: none of this new.  At the
time we brought MindVox
online the solution nearly all systems used — and
still use — to get rid
of people who are deemed “undesirable” for whatever
reason(s), was to
delete their posts and kick them off the system.

We never agreed with this approach.  If we started
doing that, it would
become very hard to ever stop, since so many of the
participants —
including ourselves — act like complete assholes
with such frequency.

The solution we came up with to handle people who
were being disruptive in
a particular context — meaning in a specific area,
or series of areas,
because they had some kind of problem with the
participants therein, or
just felt like kicking the energy around and seeing
if they could make
everyone else FLY out of everything — was twofold.

The first measure is the [IGNORE] filter.  You click
the button and add
them to your ignore list.  The people in your ignore
list are simply
nonexisted for you.  You will never again read what
they post; they simply
vanish from your notice because you have detected a
pattern.  The pattern
being: everything that this particular person has to
say simply annoys
you, it is not enlightening or adding anything to
your headspace, and you
want them to go away.  *Poof* you have the power to
make them vanish, and
can continue using whatever conferences you like
without being hassled.

The second part was the [FLING] command.  This was
accessible by
moderators/editors, and could be used to throw
off-topic posts to an area
called the R0mper-Rum (basically, a very large trash
heap).  The reason
this command came into existence in addition to the
[Ignore] filter goes
something like this:

Somebody posts a long, thoughtful, intelligent
message which is on-topic,
highly relevant to the area they are talking in, and
they have spent a lot
of time trying to express their thoughts.

Right after this someone follows it up with, “the
Top 101 Reasons why
You’re an Evil Bitch and I Hate You!” ¬†This
immediately defocuses
everything away from the original message, and 50
people will sit and spin
and argue amongst themselves about the follow-up.

The [FLING] command merely throws all of this
somewhere else.  If anyone
wants to engage in this conversation, they are more
than welcome to do so;
just not in an area where it doesn’t belong.

Nothing was ever deleted, nobody was ever censored
or thrown off, no
matter how obnoxious or annoying they were — and
there were MANY people
whose entire reason for interacting online, was to
push people’s buttons
and try to get a reaction.

The names change, the facts are completely
irrelevant and only get in the
way of things, but the song remains the same.  The
dynamics of interaction
have seen remarkably little change in the entire
history of online
communication.

Anywaze… ¬†This is what WE do. ¬†The new interface
is online, and I will
post further information to crashtestdummies any
minute now — or
tomorrow, ‘cuz I wanna get out of here right now.

However… ¬†Right now all the lists are just running
off of ezmlm.  We
threw the lists online because the software was
taking Too Fucking Long to
Light Up.  Ezmlm lacks these commands, and
ultimately the moderators of
the lists are the ones who make the calls regarding
their own conferences.

In other words: if — for whatever reason(s) they
have — the moderators
of a specific list want to remove someone for being
consistently
disruptive… ¬†Well, that’s their call, and they can
do that.  This is NOT
*our* policy, and my suggestion would be that
everyone simply adds this
person to their personal ignore filter in whatever
email client they are
using … except many — if not most — of you don’t
know how to use email
filters, or set up an ignore list.

So… ¬†This is that. ¬†I’m just articulating OUR
position on things and
stuff, before the chaos begins.

In closing: in the near-term future — BEFORE the
end of the year, because
we’re pretty much there — the ezmlm lists will
migrate to being
controlled by the MindVox software.  You will be
able to use the
interface, or continue receiving them just as you do
right now, using
whatever email client you want.  The difference is,
the lists will have
much finer-grained control over who you want to
nonexist than ezmlm does.

p.s., None of this means that any particular kind of
behavior is more or
less appropriate than any other.  It simply means
that different areas
have different vibes and purpose.  On average we had
roughly 100 main
conferences going, and at any given time at least a
dozen existed for the
sole reason that people liked to gather there and
poke each other with
sticks – or use baseball bats, which are more
effective.  We have no
judgments to pass and really don’t care. ¬†If you are
capable of doing your
own error-correction and having basic respect for
other people, none of
this will ever apply to you.

If you’re not, that’s okay too, and nothing will
ever get you deleted from
MindVox – short of blatantly illegal activities
which can get US in
trouble (for instance, posting credit cards which
don’t belong to you) –
but if you are not able to self-regulate, and sense
that your actions may
not be desired in a particulare venue, oh well, shit
happens.

Personally my advice is: it’s a very small planet.
Get on a plane, and go
meet whomever you have problems with face to face,
and beat their fucking
bitch ass in. ¬†Rhyme and reason don’t argue very
long with a fist, and
it’s MUCH MORE cathartic than posting nasty words at
one another.

God bless,

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 9:27:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I don’t want to take away anything from what you’ve
said, I don’t know what a AMT is but it sounds like a
lousy deal.

What I found most interesting is just how everyone
only sees what relates to them. You picked two or
three words out of his entire message and went off.
Completely ignoring what he was really saying, which
wasn’t very nice, but it’s interesting ūüôā

Carla B

— Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com> wrote:

LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.

I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
SMOKE CRACK.

I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS
WORTH
OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.

EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY,
I
AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST
READ
HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED
I
OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER
HAD.

THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL
WANT
MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
NEXT 30 YEARS.

ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO
MOVE
TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK
THEMSELVES
OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.

FUCK YOU IDIOT.

SSSSSSSL8Z
2 EL8 4 EWE

— ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I read this list but don’t reply very often
because
I have the sense that there isn’t a point to
saying
most of what I really think. I signed up here
because of Mindvox and found by accident that
ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
most of you here fall into one of two categories,
either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
things you grow in your garden in the back of your
shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
purpose will get you sued by some of the
shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
making more money. They invested, they didn’t
donate
money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high
tech
companies jumping all over each other to get in
line
to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
should surprise nobody. If the United States
decides
next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
then there will be no shortage of companies lining
up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the
gas
ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas
ovens,
grease the zoning problems that will come up
because
of the gas ovens and write software to control the
gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
save the world or make it a better place. Anything
else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run
a
big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were
posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists
this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure
anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox
and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere
else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] An eXtra-Speshul Announcement
Date: September 8, 2002 at 6:30:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Cc: “Patrick K.Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com
Reply-To: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>

Thanks man, that was very illuminating ūüôā

I’m not kidding either, well thought out way of dealing. I especially like the final suggestion.

Peace,
Curtis

On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 Patrick K. Kroupa wrote :

Okay, I have received a couple of requests in the last day, which are all
on the same topic, so I’m just gonna post a general NOTE to many of the
lists which are effected by this.

The problem some of you are experiencing is that of people who are
disrupting the flow of conversation on various lists.

We started interacting online in the late 70’s and early 80’s; the
original MindVox predates the world wide web by several years — basically
what I wanna express is: none of this new.  At the time we brought MindVox
online the solution nearly all systems used — and still use — to get rid
of people who are deemed “undesirable” for whatever reason(s), was to
delete their posts and kick them off the system.

We never agreed with this approach.  If we started doing that, it would
become very hard to ever stop, since so many of the participants —
including ourselves — act like complete assholes with such frequency.

The solution we came up with to handle people who were being disruptive in
a particular context — meaning in a specific area, or series of areas,
because they had some kind of problem with the participants therein, or
just felt like kicking the energy around and seeing if they could make
everyone else FLY out of everything — was twofold.

The first measure is the [IGNORE] filter.  You click the button and add
them to your ignore list.  The people in your ignore list are simply
nonexisted for you.  You will never again read what they post; they simply
vanish from your notice because you have detected a pattern.  The pattern
being: everything that this particular person has to say simply annoys
you, it is not enlightening or adding anything to your headspace, and you
want them to go away.  *Poof* you have the power to make them vanish, and
can continue using whatever conferences you like without being hassled.

The second part was the [FLING] command.  This was accessible by
moderators/editors, and could be used to throw off-topic posts to an area
called the R0mper-Rum (basically, a very large trash heap).  The reason
this command came into existence in addition to the [Ignore] filter goes
something like this:

Somebody posts a long, thoughtful, intelligent message which is on-topic,
highly relevant to the area they are talking in, and they have spent a lot
of time trying to express their thoughts.

Right after this someone follows it up with, “the Top 101 Reasons why
You’re an Evil Bitch and I Hate You!” ¬†This immediately defocuses
everything away from the original message, and 50 people will sit and spin
and argue amongst themselves about the follow-up.

The [FLING] command merely throws all of this somewhere else.  If anyone
wants to engage in this conversation, they are more than welcome to do so;
just not in an area where it doesn’t belong.

Nothing was ever deleted, nobody was ever censored or thrown off, no
matter how obnoxious or annoying they were — and there were MANY people
whose entire reason for interacting online, was to push people’s buttons
and try to get a reaction.

The names change, the facts are completely irrelevant and only get in the
way of things, but the song remains the same.  The dynamics of interaction
have seen remarkably little change in the entire history of online
communication.

Anywaze… ¬†This is what WE do. ¬†The new interface is online, and I will
post further information to crashtestdummies any minute now — or
tomorrow, ‘cuz I wanna get out of here right now.

However… ¬†Right now all the lists are just running off of ezmlm. ¬†We
threw the lists online because the software was taking Too Fucking Long to
Light Up.  Ezmlm lacks these commands, and ultimately the moderators of
the lists are the ones who make the calls regarding their own conferences.

In other words: if — for whatever reason(s) they have — the moderators
of a specific list want to remove someone for being consistently
disruptive… ¬†Well, that’s their call, and they can do that. ¬†This is NOT
*our* policy, and my suggestion would be that everyone simply adds this
person to their personal ignore filter in whatever email client they are
using … except many — if not most — of you don’t know how to use email
filters, or set up an ignore list.

So… ¬†This is that. ¬†I’m just articulating OUR position on things and
stuff, before the chaos begins.

In closing: in the near-term future — BEFORE the end of the year, because
we’re pretty much there — the ezmlm lists will migrate to being
controlled by the MindVox software.  You will be able to use the
interface, or continue receiving them just as you do right now, using
whatever email client you want.  The difference is, the lists will have
much finer-grained control over who you want to nonexist than ezmlm does.

p.s., None of this means that any particular kind of behavior is more or
less appropriate than any other.  It simply means that different areas
have different vibes and purpose.  On average we had roughly 100 main
conferences going, and at any given time at least a dozen existed for the
sole reason that people liked to gather there and poke each other with
sticks Рor use baseball bats, which are more effective.  We have no
judgments to pass and really don’t care. ¬†If you are capable of doing your
own error-correction and having basic respect for other people, none of
this will ever apply to you.

If you’re not, that’s okay too, and nothing will ever get you deleted from
MindVox – short of blatantly illegal activities which can get US in
trouble (for instance, posting credit cards which don’t belong to you) –
but if you are not able to self-regulate, and sense that your actions may
not be desired in a particulare venue, oh well, shit happens.

Personally my advice is: it’s a very small planet. ¬†Get on a plane, and go
meet whomever you have problems with face to face, and beat their fucking
bitch ass in. ¬†Rhyme and reason don’t argue very long with a fist, and
it’s MUCH MORE cathartic than posting nasty words at one another.

God bless,

Patrick

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] An eXtra-Speshul Announcement
Date: September 8, 2002 at 5:59:14 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com, drugwar@mindvox.com, vox@mindvox.com, voxadm@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Okay, I have received a couple of requests in the last day, which are all
on the same topic, so I’m just gonna post a general NOTE to many of the
lists which are effected by this.

The problem some of you are experiencing is that of people who are
disrupting the flow of conversation on various lists.

We started interacting online in the late 70’s and early 80’s; the
original MindVox predates the world wide web by several years — basically
what I wanna express is: none of this new.  At the time we brought MindVox
online the solution nearly all systems used — and still use — to get rid
of people who are deemed “undesirable” for whatever reason(s), was to
delete their posts and kick them off the system.

We never agreed with this approach.  If we started doing that, it would
become very hard to ever stop, since so many of the participants —
including ourselves — act like complete assholes with such frequency.

The solution we came up with to handle people who were being disruptive in
a particular context — meaning in a specific area, or series of areas,
because they had some kind of problem with the participants therein, or
just felt like kicking the energy around and seeing if they could make
everyone else FLY out of everything — was twofold.

The first measure is the [IGNORE] filter.  You click the button and add
them to your ignore list.  The people in your ignore list are simply
nonexisted for you.  You will never again read what they post; they simply
vanish from your notice because you have detected a pattern.  The pattern
being: everything that this particular person has to say simply annoys
you, it is not enlightening or adding anything to your headspace, and you
want them to go away.  *Poof* you have the power to make them vanish, and
can continue using whatever conferences you like without being hassled.

The second part was the [FLING] command.  This was accessible by
moderators/editors, and could be used to throw off-topic posts to an area
called the R0mper-Rum (basically, a very large trash heap).  The reason
this command came into existence in addition to the [Ignore] filter goes
something like this:

Somebody posts a long, thoughtful, intelligent message which is on-topic,
highly relevant to the area they are talking in, and they have spent a lot
of time trying to express their thoughts.

Right after this someone follows it up with, “the Top 101 Reasons why
You’re an Evil Bitch and I Hate You!” ¬†This immediately defocuses
everything away from the original message, and 50 people will sit and spin
and argue amongst themselves about the follow-up.

The [FLING] command merely throws all of this somewhere else.  If anyone
wants to engage in this conversation, they are more than welcome to do so;
just not in an area where it doesn’t belong.

Nothing was ever deleted, nobody was ever censored or thrown off, no
matter how obnoxious or annoying they were — and there were MANY people
whose entire reason for interacting online, was to push people’s buttons
and try to get a reaction.

The names change, the facts are completely irrelevant and only get in the
way of things, but the song remains the same.  The dynamics of interaction
have seen remarkably little change in the entire history of online
communication.

Anywaze… ¬†This is what WE do. ¬†The new interface is online, and I will
post further information to crashtestdummies any minute now — or
tomorrow, ‘cuz I wanna get out of here right now.

However… ¬†Right now all the lists are just running off of ezmlm. ¬†We
threw the lists online because the software was taking Too Fucking Long to
Light Up.  Ezmlm lacks these commands, and ultimately the moderators of
the lists are the ones who make the calls regarding their own conferences.

In other words: if — for whatever reason(s) they have — the moderators
of a specific list want to remove someone for being consistently
disruptive… ¬†Well, that’s their call, and they can do that. ¬†This is NOT
*our* policy, and my suggestion would be that everyone simply adds this
person to their personal ignore filter in whatever email client they are
using … except many — if not most — of you don’t know how to use email
filters, or set up an ignore list.

So… ¬†This is that. ¬†I’m just articulating OUR position on things and
stuff, before the chaos begins.

In closing: in the near-term future — BEFORE the end of the year, because
we’re pretty much there — the ezmlm lists will migrate to being
controlled by the MindVox software.  You will be able to use the
interface, or continue receiving them just as you do right now, using
whatever email client you want.  The difference is, the lists will have
much finer-grained control over who you want to nonexist than ezmlm does.

p.s., None of this means that any particular kind of behavior is more or
less appropriate than any other.  It simply means that different areas
have different vibes and purpose.  On average we had roughly 100 main
conferences going, and at any given time at least a dozen existed for the
sole reason that people liked to gather there and poke each other with
sticks Рor use baseball bats, which are more effective.  We have no
judgments to pass and really don’t care. ¬†If you are capable of doing your
own error-correction and having basic respect for other people, none of
this will ever apply to you.

If you’re not, that’s okay too, and nothing will ever get you deleted from
MindVox – short of blatantly illegal activities which can get US in
trouble (for instance, posting credit cards which don’t belong to you) –
but if you are not able to self-regulate, and sense that your actions may
not be desired in a particulare venue, oh well, shit happens.

Personally my advice is: it’s a very small planet. ¬†Get on a plane, and go
meet whomever you have problems with face to face, and beat their fucking
bitch ass in. ¬†Rhyme and reason don’t argue very long with a fist, and
it’s MUCH MORE cathartic than posting nasty words at one another.

God bless,

Patrick

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:56:18 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>Now P, could you possibly, maybe, just
perhaps be Pro-Crack?<

Um, not personally, but I am pro-choice.
What does grilled swiss on rye have to do with anything?
I’m merely pointing out that there have been other very similar claims by medical professionals that MDMA also left brains full of holes, which was bologna apparently.
So…I’m naturally suspicious when it comes to such claims involving other drugs. Not all docs are prohibitionists, but a lot of docs still crank out crackpot reports that prohibitionists use to justify their repression. Profits mean more to many people, even docs,¬†than does prohibition, or offering real health help. I’m not saying that about your source, just saying it is not unheard of.
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results in
> scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
> Pass the stem, yo.<
>
> Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a similar
> story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain, now
> could it?
> Peace,
> Preston

well, this Doc is far from a prohibitionist, but shall remain nameless, or
rename mainless or something like that. Now P, could you possibly, maybe, just
perhaps be Pro-Crack? or maybe you just like grilled swiss on Rye?

:^)

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Pinky White <uselessaccount25@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:52:40 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LET ME HELP YOU UNDERSTAND SOMETHING WANNABE
BUSINESSMAN SPOUTING BULLSHIT PERSON.

I DON’T GIVE A SHIT IF IBOGAINE KEPT YOU CLEAN, GO
SMOKE CRACK.

I SPENT 5 YEARS OF MY LIFE WORKING 18 HOUR DAYS NOT
DOING A PYRAMID SCHEME YOU PIECE OF SHIT. I WAS WORTH
OVER 7 MILLION DOLLARS 2 YEARS AGO.

EXCEPT I WASN’T. I HAD STOCK. ALL I DID WAS RUN UP
DEBT BACKED BY THE VALUE OF THE STOCK WHICH I COULD
NOT YET SELL. EVERYTHING CRASHED. NOW I AM BANKRUPT
YOU FUCK. NOT ONLY AM I BANKRUPT BUT THANKS TO THAT
GANG CALLED THE GOVERNMENT AS PATRICK LIKES TO SAY, I
AM FUCKED FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT TAXES? OR DO YOU JUST READ
HOW TO BE A BUSINESSMAN BOOKS AND SPOUT BULLSHIT.
THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED AN AMT TAX. THE ALTERNATE
MINIMUM TAX. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THE IRS HAS DECIDED I
OWE THEM TAXES ON 7 MILLION DOLLARS THAT I NEVER HAD.

THEY DON’T CARE I NEVER HAD THE MONEY THEY STILL WANT
MORE MONEY FROM ME THEN I WILL PROBABLY MAKE IN THE
NEXT 30 YEARS.

ALL OF THIS HAS HELPED ME UNDERSTAND IT’S TIME TO MOVE
TO CANADA AND MAYBE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TOOK THEMSELVES
OUT IN SOME DISASTER OF SEX AND DRUGS AT LEAST HAD A
GOOD FUCKING TIME WHILE I WAS WORKING MY ASS OFF.

FUCK YOU IDIOT.

SSSSSSSL8Z
2 EL8 4 EWE

— ascending@hushmail.com wrote:

I read this list but don’t reply very often because
I have the sense that there isn’t a point to saying
most of what I really think. I signed up here
because of Mindvox and found by accident that
ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I
have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean
afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions
most of you here fall into one of two categories,
either you’re rich and living off your trust funds
or the money you have left from the legal pyramid
scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of
things you grow in your garden in the back of your
shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to
say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like
saying military intelligence. The purpose of a
corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make
money for the shareholders. Deviating from this
purpose will get you sued by some of the
shareholders who invested money in the hopes of
making more money. They invested, they didn’t donate
money to the hug a tree foundation or save the
whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn
group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high tech
companies jumping all over each other to get in line
to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens
should surprise nobody. If the United States decides
next week that all Arabs have to get out of the
country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens,
then there will be no shortage of companies lining
up to try and get the contracts to build the gas
ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the gas
ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas ovens,
grease the zoning problems that will come up because
of the gas ovens and write software to control the
gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less
to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not
save the world or make it a better place. Anything
else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run a
big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were
posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure
anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox
and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere
else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Get your free encrypted email at
https://www.hushmail.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:30:21 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Heh. What they’d get from me is a bunch of links to
porn sites, which they probably have anyway. And some
old poetry which I’ve shared with so many people, I
don’t care if it’d get stolen anymore. And a bunch of
mail from the drugwar list.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

When it comes to the
threat of hacking, I just give up ¬†and don’t care.
I
can’t do anything about it, so whatever. Hack away.
Have fun.

www.amen.com (that was sarcastic but they should hack
THAT site)

– yeah and if they’ve hacked my yahoo mailbox maybe
they lurnt sumthin ’bout
ibogaine and addiction. maybe curb their red-bull
habits or whatever they do,
them filthy hacker[z].

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:29:15 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I read this list but don’t reply very often because I have the sense that there isn’t a point to saying most of what I really think. I signed up here because of Mindvox and found by accident that ibogaine is now right in the middle of Mindvox. I have done ibogaine, I have stayed mostly clean afterwards.

I get the feeling that without too many exceptions most of you here fall into one of two categories, either you’re rich and living off your trust funds or the money you have left from the legal pyramid scheme also called dot.com, or you live off of things you grow in your garden in the back of your shack in the woods or the drugs you deal.

Most of you are lost in space.

This message is so ridiculous I don’t know what to say. ‘Corporate ethics’ is a oxymoron. It’s like saying military intelligence. The purpose of a corporation, it’s only and sole purpose is to make money for the shareholders. Deviating from this purpose will get you sued by some of the shareholders who invested money in the hopes of making more money. They invested, they didn’t donate money to the hug a tree foundation or save the whales or save the world from boobies we hate porn group.

That entire article Curtis reposted about high tech companies jumping all over each other to get in line to help China continue oppressing it’s citizens should surprise nobody. If the United States decides next week that all Arabs have to get out of the country or be lined up and go into the gas ovens, then there will be no shortage of companies lining up to try and get the contracts to build the gas ovens, organize better Arab camps, maintain the gas ovens, clean up the mess left inside the gas ovens, grease the zoning problems that will come up because of the gas ovens and write software to control the gas ovens with greater efficiency so it costs less to kill more people.

The purpose of a corporation is to make money not save the world or make it a better place. Anything else you want to believe is your own delusion.

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are getting a really
bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run a big percent
age of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another argument.;   P
erhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics together…..A
llison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:25:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

When it comes to the
threat of hacking, I just give up ¬†and don’t care. I
can’t do anything about it, so whatever. Hack away.
Have fun.

www.amen.com (that was sarcastic but they should hack THAT site)

– yeah and if they’ve hacked my yahoo mailbox maybe they lurnt sumthin ’bout
ibogaine and addiction. maybe curb their red-bull habits or whatever they do,
them filthy hacker[z].

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:10:58 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
Pass the stem, yo.<

Hmmm, don’t suppose this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a similar
story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain, now
could it?
Peace,
Preston

well, this Doc is far from a prohibitionist, but shall remain nameless, or
rename mainless or something like that. Now P, could you possibly, maybe, just
perhaps be Pro-Crack? or maybe you just like grilled swiss on Rye?

:^)

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:07:48 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s become one big ad over there in yahoo. I had
always assumed anyone could crack it anytime they
wanted, so I just never cared about what I left in my
box. Now, when you sign on, the first thing you have to
deal with is a damn ad popping up in your face. The
only thing I did about yahoo now is their messenger
service, where you can call up a bunch of cute pictures
as the background to whoever you’re chatting with, or
you can sit there and play chess and tic tac toe or
doodle with the person you’re talking too. But a hacker
friend told me that their messenger makes it easier
somehow to break into the mailbox. When it comes to the
threat of hacking, I just give up ¬†and don’t care. I
can’t do anything about it, so whatever. Hack away.
Have fun.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Gamma” <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

As if anything passing thru yahoo isn’t already being
monitored by carnivorous
goverment e-mail monitoring devices.

“just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re
not out to get you.”

-gamma

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are
getting a really bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run a
big percentage of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another
argument.;   Perhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics
together…..Allison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now
unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were
posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure
anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox
and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere
else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 4:02:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

As if anything passing thru yahoo isn’t already being monitored by carnivorous
goverment e-mail monitoring devices.

“just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.”

-gamma

— Alison Senepart <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are getting a really bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run a big percentage of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another argument.;   Perhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics together…..Allison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 8, 2002 at 6:52:22 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is probably a bit off topic but yahoo are getting a really bad
reputation in all sorts of areas.   They also run a big percentage of the
porn and child porn sites which has been another argument.;   Perhaps they
need to stop being so greedy and get some ethics together…..Allison.
—–Original Message—–
From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Date: Sunday, 8 September 2002 12:30
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Yahoo mail
Date: September 7, 2002 at 8:29:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

A public service announcement to any of you who
receive mail on yahoo which right now unfortunately is
me too.

Yahoo mail has been cracked, the exploits were posted
to some of the full disclosure mailing lists this
morning.

If you are using yahoo you should make sure anything
you want to stay private is out of your mailbox and
your personal mail has been downloaded somewhere else.

.:vector:.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 7, 2002 at 6:45:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Chris

Brett, I don’t know if you understand how amazing
this
sounds to someone who’s never done it. There are

I have an idea.

many
people who are not addicts who need this peace of
mind
that it offers.

See the following experience.

Account of a 44 year old woman who took ibogaine for personal development. (April 2000)

Brett

Chris

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “preston peet” <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 7, 2002 at 5:56:40 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

>An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.
Pass the stem, yo.<

Hmmm, don’t suppose¬†this could possibly, maybe, just perhaps, be a similar story to that the prohibitionists tell about MDMA leaving holes in brain, now could it?
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Gamma
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

> crack unlike opiates and opioids does a whole lotta brain damage.  If
> various parts are burnt, then you’re just shit outta luck and perhaps
> shouldn’t have smoked so much crack, ‘cuz nothing that exists right now —
> including nootropics — is going to be making those parts of your brain
> that have gone buh-bye, light back up and regenerate.

An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.

Pass the stem, yo.

> My main point is with opiates/opioids ibogaine is the shit.  The
> difference is like night and day, and no other treatment modality that
> exists can come close to touching it.  I would not hesitate to recommend
> it to anyone with a habit who wants to step off.

undoubtedly an opinion I share with enthusiasm.

> With crack, it’s sorta like, uhm, whatever mahn.¬† Highly unimpressive in
> MY EXPERIENCE.¬† But as you pointed out — and to reiterate — it’s not
> like there seems to be anything else that helps much either.  Other than
> just getting over it, shooting dope to take your mind off how much you
> wanna smoke crack, and then getting unsprung with ibogaine.
>
> That was a joke, not a medical recommendation.

Phew. Thanks for the clarification. I was confused for a second there.

One thing I can say for crack for sure is that it certainly increased my heroin
intake. Oh yeah, it sucks.

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 7, 2002 at 5:44:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

crack unlike opiates and opioids does a whole lotta brain damage.  If
various parts are burnt, then you’re just shit outta luck and perhaps
shouldn’t have smoked so much crack, ‘cuz nothing that exists right now —
including nootropics — is going to be making those parts of your brain
that have gone buh-bye, light back up and regenerate.

An Ibo friendly doctor researching crack addicts showed alarming results in
scans of the brain: The crack head’s brains looked like swiss cheeze.

Pass the stem, yo.

My main point is with opiates/opioids ibogaine is the shit.  The
difference is like night and day, and no other treatment modality that
exists can come close to touching it.  I would not hesitate to recommend
it to anyone with a habit who wants to step off.

undoubtedly an opinion I share with enthusiasm.

With crack, it’s sorta like, uhm, whatever mahn. ¬†Highly unimpressive in
MY EXPERIENCE. ¬†But as you pointed out — and to reiterate — it’s not
like there seems to be anything else that helps much either.  Other than
just getting over it, shooting dope to take your mind off how much you
wanna smoke crack, and then getting unsprung with ibogaine.

That was a joke, not a medical recommendation.

Phew. Thanks for the clarification. I was confused for a second there.

One thing I can say for crack for sure is that it certainly increased my heroin
intake. Oh yeah, it sucks.

-gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “tgoodson7” <tgoodson7@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 7, 2002 at 2:15:41 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria:¬† There probably are more than 6 Million Addicts in the U.S., closer to 10 or 15 Million.¬† And our government is not interested curing them.¬† If they¬†were a simple cure would have been available 20 or¬†30 years ago.¬† Ibogaine put them on the right track in the 50’s and with Ibogaine as a lead any one of the pharmaceituical Co.’s could have come with a cure.

The C.I.A. thoroughly investigated Ibogaine in the 50’s and
were¬†fully aware of it’s properties but they sealed their records and the records were not available until¬†a few years¬†ago and even then the¬†Government paid no attention and kept Ibogaine on the controlled substance ban!!

The Government simply pays lip service to Drug Control and continues to pour better than 40 Billion Dollars a year into the INSANE INSTITUTIONALIZED MADNESS, THE DRUG
WAR!!!!

Tommy Goodson

P.S.  Read your contributions Mindvox all the time.
—– Original Message —–
From: AndriaE@aol.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test

Vector, why don’t you give Patrick a name U love as your alias, as opposed to asking¬† Daddy PK to do it for U (cos that’s what I do sometimes, and then feel disappointed when I get something I don’t want; then like a little girl, I get all upset!!)

This e-mail from U is great, and I’d just like to add that the infestation of drugwar.com folk is the greatest thing for your country right now, while hundreds rage against the inhumanity and stupidity of arresting sick/dying people, not to mention their carers and loved ones

AND some of y’all begin to reflect on what happened 9/11..

Sending huge bundles and lorry loads of love, strenghth and sound-thinking to all of U

Andria Mordaunt

P.S: D’u guys really believe there are 6m addicts in America (Yesterdays Wash. Post) That is a funk of a lot of folks saying, ‘we can’t bear the existential inner and outer pain anymore..’ I should mention this in a Users Voice editorial if this is thge case…
What do y’all think?

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] MDMA harmfulness exaggerated
Date: September 7, 2002 at 1:50:09 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I believe what you’ve posted below, but then you have
to deal with the opposing side, and, for some reason
the opposing side seems to be the only one that gets
its commercials on TV. There’s one running now with
some scientist, doctor, something, sitting there
talking about someone who died, and he’s saying that he
has no doubt that it was ecstasy, and only ecstasy that
killed whoever it was. Everytime I see a commercial
like this, I imagine some opposing commercial. I see
some guy standing there saying, “I tripped on ecstasy
and had an amazing, safe time, you dumb motherfuckers.”
Oh, if only I could see an ad like that.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Dana Beal” <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 11:41 AM
Subject: [ibogaine] MDMA harmfulness exaggerated

Pubdate: Mon, 02 Sep 2002
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2002 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Sarah Boseley, health editor
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mdma.htm (Ecstasy)

ECSTASY NOT DANGEROUS, SAY SCIENTISTS

Three leading psychologists have provoked an outcry
by claiming that the
dance drug ecstasy may not be dangerous and that some
of its ill-effects
may be imaginary.

The drug has been blamed for causing deaths and
permanent brain damage, but
the psychologists are strongly critical of animal and
human studies into
its effects, claiming that they are misleading and
overestimate the harm
ecstasy – scientifically known as MDMA – can cause.

Other scientists insisted that those who took ecstasy
were undoubtedly
risking their health and their life.

Two of the scientists challenging the established
view are British and the
third is American. Dr Jon Cole is a reader in
addictive behaviour and Harry
Sumnall is a postdoctoral researcher, both at
Liverpool University.

URL:
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1630.a07.html

——————————

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] MDMA harmfulness exaggerated
Date: September 7, 2002 at 11:41:30 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Mon, 02 Sep 2002
Source: Guardian, The (UK)
Copyright: 2002 Guardian Newspapers Limited
Contact: letters@guardian.co.uk
Website: http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardian/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/175
Author: Sarah Boseley, health editor
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/mdma.htm (Ecstasy)

ECSTASY NOT DANGEROUS, SAY SCIENTISTS

Three leading psychologists have provoked an outcry by claiming that the
dance drug ecstasy may not be dangerous and that some of its ill-effects
may be imaginary.

The drug has been blamed for causing deaths and permanent brain damage, but
the psychologists are strongly critical of animal and human studies into
its effects, claiming that they are misleading and overestimate the harm
ecstasy – scientifically known as MDMA – can cause.

Other scientists insisted that those who took ecstasy were undoubtedly
risking their health and their life.

Two of the scientists challenging the established view are British and the
third is American. Dr Jon Cole is a reader in addictive behaviour and Harry
Sumnall is a postdoctoral researcher, both at Liverpool University.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1630.a07.html

——————————

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 7, 2002 at 5:13:42 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I did it over 2 yrs ago Brett; I would do it again if I could ever give myself a whole week off work, but then again in 7 dyas, I might just prefer to loll about on some warm Grecian beach.

I just feel the need for a spiritual.mindful/brain clearout, if U know what I mean

Whomever it was, last night, who said “I only know from experience” cocaine burns your nerve endings out; I went to one of my chemical brain books. apparently it is certainly a FACT that stimulants have a tendency to burn out essential bits of neuro-chemistry. Your ‘experience’ is VERY intelligent

Love and Solidarity from London

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Fwd: [ibogaine] Picture of a Vision
Date: September 7, 2002 at 1:17:11 AM EDT
To: digital@phantom.com

Note: forwarded message attached.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com
From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Picture of a Vision
Date: September 7, 2002 at 12:50:09 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Go here if you can’t see this¬† http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/newfolder/fotoiboga2.html¬†¬†¬† It’s the Iboga plant. Something many Americans may have not heard of, but something that can help a heroin addict more than methadone or years of therapy, and something that can give a person an experience that will set them new again.
back

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Picture of a Vision
Date: September 7, 2002 at 12:50:09 AM EDT
To: <drugwar@mindvox.com>, <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Go here if you can’t see this¬† http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/newfolder/fotoiboga2.html¬†¬†¬† It’s the Iboga plant. Something many Americans may have not heard of, but something that can help a heroin addict more than methadone or years of therapy, and something that can give a person an experience that will set them new again.
back

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 7, 2002 at 12:38:46 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy

Andria

time, and when u’re not addicted, what’s the
driving
force behind needing it?

That was EXACTLY what my Earthling/never did a drug
in
her life Fiancee` said… before she took it, after
all she didn’t “need” it. Then she understood WHY and
took it again. Curiosity was the original driving
force, that turned into understanding and peace that
she has never known. It shows you stuff, things you
would never see otherwise (well if you want 20 years
on the couch, have it, I will take the ibo, thank you
very much). There really isn’t much I can say, most
people don’t understand ibogaine till they do it,
some
have the vaguest sense of what it does (or I should
say can do) but till ya get there, ya don’t know. I
will do it again and will be (in fact) be quite clean
when I do, why, for the peace and all the other
(good)
stuff it does. What exactly, I don’t know till I get
there or sometime after.

Brett

Truly,

andria

Brett, I don’t know if you understand how amazing this
sounds to someone who’s never done it. There are many
people who are not addicts who need this peace of mind
that it offers.

Chris

From: ascending@hushmail.com
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 7, 2002 at 12:37:51 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

It’s a funny parody that’s nice. But where do you people come up with the idea that you have the right to steal the work of other people who have labored very hard to create it? If you don’t like Metallica then don’t buy their music, nobody forces you to do that. Instead you people come up with some convoluted rationale for stealing what doesn’t belong to you.

I’m not saying this to anyone in particular and Curtis you know I don’t mean you personally but as an example, Patrick you will eventually get your shit together and have your first book published. Someone scans the whole thing in and then starts distributing it over morpheus. What are you going to do? What your publisher, lawyers and everyone involved with the project will do is sue everybody. If your book is ever made into a movie and people start to rip DVDs depriving you of your work, are you going to just say it’s ok? No you’re not. You invest hundreds or thousands of hours of your time and talent to create something and then it’s ok for a bunch of schmucks to steal it? I don’t think so.

If you’re going to steal, steal, don’t rationalize it into some kind of self righteous moral higher ground that so many of you like to take.

Bro that is hysterical.

“Now I lay me down to sleep
and pray my lawyers,
Lars copyrights to keep.
If I should go broke before I wake,
I’ll have to get a job selling fries and shakes

Bunch of thieves, bunch of liars,
Steal our songs through the wires

I keep my T1 open, I’m stealing your shit right now
We’re in debt from the internet, sue our fans

Hush little Lars, don’t say a word,
and nevermind that noise you heard
It’s just the fans making bootleg tapes,
I hope you choke of your sour grapes”

Karina are you alive?

Peace out and download,
Curtis

On Sat, 07 Sep 2002 Patrick K. Kroupa wrote :
And now, an Important Announcement from Bruce:

http://www.mindvox.com/~bruce/Weird%20Al%20Yankovic%20-%20Ente
r%20Napster%20(Metallica%20Parody).mp3

Patrick

Get your free encrypted email at https://www.hushmail.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 6, 2002 at 10:25:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Andria

time, and when u’re not addicted, what’s the driving
force behind needing it?

That was EXACTLY what my Earthling/never did a drug in
her life Fiancee` said… before she took it, after
all she didn’t “need” it. Then she understood WHY and
took it again. Curiosity was the original driving
force, that turned into understanding and peace that
she has never known. It shows you stuff, things you
would never see otherwise (well if you want 20 years
on the couch, have it, I will take the ibo, thank you
very much). There really isn’t much I can say, most
people don’t understand ibogaine till they do it, some
have the vaguest sense of what it does (or I should
say can do) but till ya get there, ya don’t know. I
will do it again and will be (in fact) be quite clean
when I do, why, for the peace and all the other (good)
stuff it does. What exactly, I don’t know till I get
there or sometime after.

Brett

Truly,

andria

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 11:28:22 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Bro that is hysterical.

“Now I lay me down to sleep
and pray my lawyers,
Lars copyrights to keep.
If I should go broke before I wake,
I’ll have to get a job selling fries and shakes

Bunch of thieves, bunch of liars,
Steal our songs through the wires

I keep my T1 open, I’m stealing your shit right now
We’re in debt from the internet, sue our fans

Hush little Lars, don’t say a word,
and nevermind that noise you heard
It’s just the fans making bootleg tapes,
I hope you choke of your sour grapes”

Karina are you alive?

Peace out and download,
Curtis

On Sat, 07 Sep 2002 Patrick K. Kroupa wrote :
And now, an Important Announcement from Bruce:

Patrick

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 10:26:47 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thankyouthankyouthankyouthankyouthankyou!

I give up after this list, all of you have at least 20
different handles in violation of NIC rules! ūüôā

.:vector:.

http://www.mindvox.com/~digital/

http://www.mindvox.com/~squirk/switch/
http://dross.mindvox.com/
http://mailhost.phantom.com
http://warez.phantom.com
http://www.phantom.com
http://www.mindvox.com
http://www.entropycalling.com
http://www.ibogaine-research.com
http://www.ibogaine-research.net
http://www.ibogaine-research.org
http://www.ibogaine.net
http://www.digitalib.org/
http://www.bushknew.com/
http://www.bushknew.net/
http://www.bushknew.org/
http://www.kenkappel.com/
http://www.novoneuron.com/
http://www.redcrossblues.com/
http://www.iterative.com
http://www.darthnader.com
http://www.ceotraveler.com/
http://www.dross.com
http://www.wackycrackheads.com
http://www.cheechwizard.com
http://www.wiretap.com/
http://www.wiretap.com/~evan/
http://www.duocash.com

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:33:18PM -0700], [Vector
Vector] wrote:

| .:vector:. who still needs an alias! ūüôĀ Patrick
please
| come on!

Uhm, do0d… ¬†You had a whole entire emotional
outburst about this roughly
3 weeks ago on crashtestdummies… ¬†We decided that
Kurt Larson from
Information Society was of lesser import than you,
and thus, you could be
vector@mindvox.com instead of him.

You’ve had a former rock star, current I dunno what,
displaced, Thrown
Away, Tossed Into The Street, all for you; because
you’re just That
Speshul. ¬†And still you whine…?

You’ve been vector@mindvox.com for ’bout 3 weeks now
do0d. ¬†I didn’t wanna
interrupt your histrionic eruptions since you seem
to be enjoying them.  I
enjoy ’em too, emotional outbursts and being
Completely Fucking Psychotic,
are very cathartic and fun.

And now, an Important Announcement from Bruce:

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 9:43:05 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

LMAO ūüôā I never heard that one before.

You and Bruce have interesting choices of personal
home pages ūüėČ

http://www.mindvox.com/~digital/

I’m so shocked dross has no home page? It just says
access forbidden.

Carla B

— “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com> wrote:
On [Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:33:18PM -0700], [Vector
Vector] wrote:

| .:vector:. who still needs an alias! ūüôĀ Patrick
please
| come on!

Uhm, do0d… ¬†You had a whole entire emotional
outburst about this roughly
3 weeks ago on crashtestdummies… ¬†We decided that
Kurt Larson from
Information Society was of lesser import than you,
and thus, you could be
vector@mindvox.com instead of him.

You’ve had a former rock star, current I dunno what,
displaced, Thrown
Away, Tossed Into The Street, all for you; because
you’re just That
Speshul. ¬†And still you whine…?

You’ve been vector@mindvox.com for ’bout 3 weeks now
do0d. ¬†I didn’t wanna
interrupt your histrionic eruptions since you seem
to be enjoying them.  I
enjoy ’em too, emotional outbursts and being
Completely Fucking Psychotic,
are very cathartic and fun.

And now, an Important Announcement from Bruce:

Patrick

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 8:58:38 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 12:33:18PM -0700], [Vector Vector] wrote:

| .:vector:. who still needs an alias! ūüôĀ Patrick please
| come on!

Uhm, do0d… ¬†You had a whole entire emotional outburst about this roughly
3 weeks ago on crashtestdummies… ¬†We decided that Kurt Larson from
Information Society was of lesser import than you, and thus, you could be
vector@mindvox.com instead of him.

You’ve had a former rock star, current I dunno what, displaced, Thrown
Away, Tossed Into The Street, all for you; because you’re just That
Speshul. ¬†And still you whine…?

You’ve been vector@mindvox.com for ’bout 3 weeks now do0d. ¬†I didn’t wanna
interrupt your histrionic eruptions since you seem to be enjoying them.  I
enjoy ’em too, emotional outbursts and being Completely Fucking Psychotic,
are very cathartic and fun.

And now, an Important Announcement from Bruce:

Patrick

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 6, 2002 at 8:58:08 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I think its either unsubscribe-ibogaine@mindvox.com or
ibogaine-unsubscribe@mindvox.com I’m not sure. But I
hope Patrick helps you if neither one works, because
from I think about 100 people who have posted that to
the different Mindvox lists you are the only one who
has ever asked nicely and been polite. Everyone else
is usually hysterical or mad ūüėČ

Carla B

— Bruce Behner <chippurdue@hotmail.com> wrote:
I’m sorry to bother you but, do you know how I can
get off the ibogaine
newsletter?  I cant keep up with it, so it clogs my
inbox.  Someone please
help.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 19:54:02 EDT

Well I hope it works better for them then it did
for me;

I had some of that kind of therapy during a
stimulants binge and ended up
storming out of the last group, as it was sooooo
full of men and i was
terrified. Indeed, the theory is good, BUT not
enough focus on the
expulsion
of painful emotions for my liking

I then spoke with a psychotherapist galfriend of
mine, who said it was a
very
much more appreciated by and helpful to guys
generally. Ahh, sorted that
one
out then.

Blimey, I wish I could do some Ibogaine right now,
but just do NOT have the
time, and when u’re not addicted, what’s the
driving force behind needing
it?

Truly,

andria

.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:
http://mobile.msn.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Carla Barnes <carlambarnes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 8:55:23 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Everyone was taking a nap, you woke them up Marko ūüėČ

Carla B

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi everybody,

this list has been unusually quiet lately, so I’m
testing if there’s
anybody out there ;-))

http://www.dromo.com/fusionanomaly/whydidthechickencrosstheroad.html

Marko

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 8:31:41 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks ūüôā But what are you talking about?

.:vector:.

— AndriaE@aol.com wrote:
Vector, why don’t you give Patrick a name U love as
your alias, as opposed to
asking ¬†Daddy PK to do it for U (cos that’s what I
do sometimes, and then
feel disappointed when I get something I don’t want;
then like a little girl,
I get all upset!!)

This e-mail from U is great, and I’d just like to
add that the infestation of
drugwar.com folk is the greatest thing for your
country right now, while
hundreds rage against the inhumanity and stupidity
of arresting sick/dying
people, not to mention their carers and loved ones

AND some of y’all begin to reflect on what happened
9/11..

Sending huge bundles and lorry loads of love,
strenghth and sound-thinking to
all of U

Andria Mordaunt

P.S: D’u guys really believe there are 6m addicts in
America (Yesterdays
Wash. Post) That is a funk of a lot of folks saying,
‘we can’t bear the
existential inner and outer pain anymore..’ I should
mention this in a Users
Voice editorial if this is thge case…
What do y’all think?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Patrick K. Kroupa” <digital@phantom.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:51:11 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

On [Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 07:46:04PM -0400], [Dana Beal] wrote:

| Patrick told me Miami doesn’t think Ibo is particularly effective for
| coke or speed.

Whoah, uhm, Dana, I didn’t say that. ¬†I have no idea what Miami thinks.
If Miami ever wants to Declare its Official Opinion, I’m sure Miami will
do so.  I just mentioned my own personal observations based upon my
interactions with people.  Which were the same ones I have posted to this
very list on various occasions.

To summarize: ibogaine doesn’t seem to do much for stimulant abuse. ¬†It
MAY and sometimes does, provide a little happy boost, but in general it
takes multiple hits to bring about any kind of reversal or reset, and
crack unlike opiates and opioids does a whole lotta brain damage.  If
various parts are burnt, then you’re just shit outta luck and perhaps
shouldn’t have smoked so much crack, ‘cuz nothing that exists right now —
including nootropics — is going to be making those parts of your brain
that have gone buh-bye, light back up and regenerate.

These — as EVERYTHING I EVER POST — are merely my OPINIONS and
OBSERVATIONS and do not represent anybody or anything, other than me, at
the time I write it.  None of my opinions are set in stone, life is
change, and next month I may think something different.

| Compared to what,. though?

All that being said, yeah, I agree 100%  Compared to what.  Ibogaine is
still the best thing going, and you have nothing to lose by trying it,
because odds are it will have SOME positive effect.

My main point is with opiates/opioids ibogaine is the shit.  The
difference is like night and day, and no other treatment modality that
exists can come close to touching it.  I would not hesitate to recommend
it to anyone with a habit who wants to step off.

With crack, it’s sorta like, uhm, whatever mahn. ¬†Highly unimpressive in
MY EXPERIENCE. ¬†But as you pointed out — and to reiterate — it’s not
like there seems to be anything else that helps much either.  Other than
just getting over it, shooting dope to take your mind off how much you
wanna smoke crack, and then getting unsprung with ibogaine.

That was a joke, not a medical recommendation.

Patrick

From: “Bruce Behner” <chippurdue@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:59:16 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I’m sorry to bother you but, do you know how I can get off the ibogaine newsletter? ¬†I cant keep up with it, so it clogs my inbox. ¬†Someone please help.

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 19:54:02 EDT

Well I hope it works better for them then it did for me;

I had some of that kind of therapy during a stimulants binge and ended up
storming out of the last group, as it was sooooo full of men and i was
terrified. Indeed, the theory is good, BUT not enough focus on the expulsion
of painful emotions for my liking

I then spoke with a psychotherapist galfriend of mine, who said it was a very
much more appreciated by and helpful to guys generally. Ahh, sorted that one
out then.

Blimey, I wish I could do some Ibogaine right now, but just do NOT have the
time, and when u’re not addicted, what’s the driving force behind needing it?

Truly,

andria

.

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:54:02 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Well I hope it works better for them then it did for me;

I had some of that kind of therapy during a stimulants binge and ended up storming out of the last group, as it was sooooo full of men and i was terrified. Indeed, the theory is good, BUT not enough focus on the expulsion of painful emotions for my liking

I then spoke with a psychotherapist galfriend of mine, who said it was a very much more appreciated by and helpful to guys generally. Ahh, sorted that one out then.

Blimey, I wish I could do some Ibogaine right now, but just do NOT have the time, and when u’re not addicted, what’s the driving force behind needing it?

Truly,

andria

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:49:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Now, Iboga went through me two yrs ago, and it was about the same time that my galfriend in NYC told me she thought that Gates was the anti-Christ too!
She’s abit prophetic that girl, and boy does she read a lot! (it’s her job; she proof-reads all sorts of serious academic books and documents)

Wish she was on the drugwar.com list

Anyways, I’ve missed U guys, so just wanted to pop in and say hi
How R U Karina; haven’t heard from U in a while. PLEASE wite me a private e-mail if U see this

andria

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] talk therapy
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:46:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Patrick told me Miami doesn’t think Ibo is particularly effective for
coke or speed.

Compared to what,. though?

Dana/cnw

Pubdate: Sun, 01 Sep 2002
Source: Independent on Sunday (UK)
Webpage: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=329317
Copyright: Independent Newspapers (UK) Ltd
Contact: letters@independent.co.uk
Website: http://www.independent.co.uk/
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/208
Author: Sophie Goodchild, Home Affairs Correspondent

COKEHEADS TO BE TALKED OUT OF THEIR HABITS

Cocaine addicts will be treated with special “talking therapies” used to
cure the mentally ill, under new plans to be launched by the Government.

The National Treatment Agency (NTA), the government body set up to cater
for thousands of drug users, will launch a nationwide strategy later this
year based on cognitive therapy. Patients addicted to crack and powder
cocaine will be encouraged to talk about their problems and to learn coping
techniques in an attempt to wean them off the drugs.

Therapy-based approaches have already been used to treat addiction to other
drugs such as heroin. However, this is the first national strategy for the
treatment of cocaine addiction, for which there is no recognised treatment.

A government crack conference in June this year revealed that trafficking
and possession of crack cocaine in Britain has risen by more than 200 per
cent over the past three years.

URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v02.n1623.a01.html
Webpage: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=329317
——————————

From: “Curtis Hersch” <crownofthorns72@rediffmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:41:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Wanted to say hello to everyone, I haven’t been on the computer too much lately. I’m a little down from everything is so great all the time but I have to say I still feel good ūüôā Ibogaine is a good thing even if you’re not on drugs when you take it. I don’t know what it’s doing but it sure feels like something has changed. And for the better.

I don’t know what the great wall of China and censorship has to do with ibogaine but in the time I’ve been here everything has something to do with ibogaine some of the time I’ve noticed ūüôā I followed those links that Vector posted and I am not of the peta mindset or any of these very left organisations and don’t have interest in ranting about the evil that corporations do but I’m going to repost one article which is real sick.

If you don’t have the patience to read it what it says is that major computer companies and software companies have all jumped all over themselves to do anything China wants to keep their people down as long as they get paid. One of the quotes is that they are in business to make money not act as the world’s conscience and they don’t care. It’s like all of them would be building gas ovens if there was profit in it right now and don’t care.

What’s righteously funny is the only company that refused to cooperate with them in any way was Microsoft who refused to release their source code or make any changes. Which is so twilight zone because they just do not care, they are refusing the same demands from the American government and keep taking it to court forever because they look like they have more money then the government. We are Microsoft and we don’t care what anybody else wants whether it’s all of China or the United States government. Right on. Bill Gates may be the antichrist as Patrick likes to say, but at least he does not discriminate or care who he’s fucking over. Everybody gets the same answer, talk to our lawyers and fuck off, all of you will end up using our software anyway because what choice do you have? ūüôā

Peace out,
Curtis

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/000/922dgmtd.asp

Who Lost China’s Internet?
From the February 25, 2002 issue: Without U.S. assistance, it will remain a tool of the Beijing government, not a force for democracy.
by Ethan Gutmann
02/15/2002 12:00:00 AM

BEIJING
It’s not easy being the father of the Chinese Internet. Children are running by, boats are paddling, the smell of roast lamb fills the air, and Michael Robinson, a young American computer engineer, sits rigidly, facing an empty cafe on the shore of Qinghai Lake, speaking in a low voice of the crackdown. “What is better? Big brother Internet? Or no Internet at all?” Michael asks.

Michael was hired in 1996 by the Chinese government and Global One (a Sprint-France Telecom-Deutsche Telekom joint venture) to build the first network in China providing public access to the Internet. One day sticks in his mind. The Chinese engineers working with him suddenly convened a special meeting, demanding to know if it would be possible to do keyword searching inside e-mails and web addresses on the Chinese Internet. Not really, Michael replied; all information that travels the Net is broken up into little packets. It’s hard to “sniff” packets of information, particularly coded packets. You would need to intercept packets as they travel, and then there’s the problem of collating the information they contain, actually making sense of it. Yes, yes, they said, but can you do it? On the third go-round, it dawned on Michael that his fellow computer geeks wanted to end the meeting, too. But at a higher level, someone required assurance. Before Internet construction proceeded further, they would need to monitor what Chinese users did with it. For the engineers, this was just cover-your-ass stuff. As long as the foreigner assured them that down the road the Chinese would be able to build an Internet firewall against the world and conduct surveillance on its own citizens, the engineers could continue working with him. Yes, yes, it can be done, Michael told them, and they went back to work.

Americans make dreams, and every generation carries new ones to China. Since 1979 that dream has been the fall of the Chinese Communist party and the rise of the world’s largest market, an event that U.S. businessmen and China hands keep predicting is on the horizon or even imminent. Yet Michael was not naive. He understood the self-serving nature of much of the democracy-is-just-around-the-corner rhetoric. Working inside, he sensed the Chinese leadership’s true motives in building an Internet. One of his friends, Peter Lovelock, author of the “Made For China Internet Update,” puts it this way: “These are Marxists. Control the means of communication; embrace the means of communication. Fill it with Chinese voices. If they can block the outside, and block relationships between Chinese forces, no one will listen.”

But for Michael, any reservations over complicity with Chinese government objectives were outweighed by a bedrock faith in the Internet’s ingenious architecture. A system created to relay U.S. command messages over a damaged network after sustaining a Soviet nuclear strike could surely find a way to get messages through, securely, amid the white noise of millions of Chinese users. Resistance would be futile–even the Chinese Borg could not stop it. With the genie of free speech out of the bottle, it would just be a matter of time before those predictions of democracy in China come true.

That vision has now been called into question, not by a failure of the Internet’s architecture, but in several cases, by a failure of American corporate values. Let’s start where Michael left off, with the expansion of the Chinese Internet. I treated a top Chinese engineer (who wishes to remain anonymous) to a 30-course imperial meal in Beijing. As hoped, the shark’s fin soup loosened his tongue–on the subject of Cisco Systems. In the United States, Cisco is known (among other things) for building corporate firewalls to block viruses and hackers. In China, the government had a unique problem: how to keep a billion people from accessing politically sensitive websites, now and forever.

The way to do it would be this: If a Chinese user tried to view a website outside China with political content, such as CNN.com, the address would be recognized by a filter program that screens out forbidden sites. The request would then be thrown away, with the user receiving a banal message: “Operation timed out.” Great, but China’s leaders had a problem: The financial excitement of a wired China quickly led to a proliferation of eight major Internet service providers (ISPs) and four pipelines to the outside world. To force compliance with government objectives–to ensure that all pipes lead back to Rome–they needed the networking superpower, Cisco, to standardize the Chinese Internet and equip it with firewalls on a national scale. According to the Chinese engineer, Cisco came through, developing a router device, integrator, and firewall box specially designed for the government’s telecom monopoly. At approximately $20,000 a box, China Telecom “bought many thousands” and IBM arranged for the “high-end” financing. Michael confirms: “Cisco made a killing. They are everywhere.”

Cisco does not deny its success in China. Nor does it deny that it may have altered its products to suit the special needs of the Chinese “market”–a localization scheme the company avoided elsewhere in the world–but it categorically rejects any responsibility for how the government uses its firewall boxes. David Zhou, a systems engineer manager at Cisco, Beijing, told me flat out, “We don’t care about the [Chinese government’s] rules. It’s none of Cisco’s business.” I replied that he has a point: It’s not the gun but the way it’s used, and how can a company that builds firewalls be expected to, well, not build firewalls? Zhou relaxed, then confidently added that the capabilities of Cisco’s routers can be used to intercept information and to conduct keyword searches: “We have the capability to look deeply into the packet.” He admitted that Cisco is under the direct scrutiny of State Security, the Public Security Bureau, and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

Does Cisco allow the PLA to look into packets? Zhou didn’t know or wouldn’t say. But consider, for example, the arrest of veteran activist Chi Shouzhu last April. He was picked up in a crowded train station minutes after printing out online materials promoting Chinese democracy. Incidents such as this have mushroomed in China, suggesting that Cisco may not be the only one capable of looking deeply into the packets. In fact, Cisco’s ability to thrive in China may well depend on cooperation with the Public Security Bureau and the PLA.

Cisco’s firewall has proven to be far from foolproof. New sites on forbidden topics crop up daily, and with the proliferation of ISPs who just want more subscribers surfing, the lag time between updating the government’s list of banned sites and implementation can be erratic. So Chinese security organs also needed to control the search engines through which new sites can be found.

Enter Yahoo! The business press has painted a picture of a thriving, home-grown Chinese market for portals and search engines–mirroring such companies as AOL, Google, and Excite–with names like Sohu, Netease, and Sina fighting for the top spots. Chinese Yahoo!, the American outrider, trails in fifth place. A top Yahoo! representative spoke to me on the condition that I would not use his name or give identifying details other than that he had recently left the company. He admitted that Yahoo! is actually the most popular portal in China by a mile. Management had fudged the hit rate, because “we were viewed as extremely aggressive. We were seen as too foreign.”

Chinese xenophobia has led many other U.S. companies to play similar games, but Yahoo! was particularly eager to please. All Chinese chat rooms or discussion groups have a “big mama,” a supervisor for a team of censors who wipe out politically incorrect comments in real time. Yahoo! handles things differently. If in the midst of a discussion you type, “We should have nationwide multiparty elections in China!!” no one else will react to your comment. How could they? It appears on your screen, but only you and Yahoo!’s big mama actually see your thought crime. After intercepting it and preventing its transmission, Mother Yahoo! then solicitously generates a friendly e-mail suggesting that you cool your rhetoric–censorship, but with a New Age nod to self-esteem.

The former Yahoo! rep also admitted that the search phrase “Taiwan independence” on Chinese Yahoo! would yield no results, because Yahoo! has disabled searches for select keywords, such as “Falun Gong” and “China democracy.” Search for VIP Reference, a major overseas Chinese dissident site, and you will get a single hit, a government site ripping it to shreds. How did Yahoo! come up with these policies? He replied, “It was a precautionary measure. The State Information Bureau was in charge of watching and making sure that we complied. The game is to make sure that they don’t complain.” By this logic, when Yahoo! rejected an attempt by Voice of America to buy ad space, they were just helping the Internet function smoothly. The former rep defended such censorship: “We are not a content creator, just a medium, a selective medium.” But it is a critical medium. The Chinese government uses it to wage political campaigns against Taiwan, Tibet, and America. And of course the great promise of the Internet in China was supposed to be that it was unfettered, not selective. The Yahoo! rep again: “You adjust. The crackdowns come in waves; it’s just the issue du jour. It’s normal.”

But what is “normal” in China can be altered under duress. When Chinese authorities ordered Microsoft to surrender its software’s underlying source codes–the keys to encryption–as the price of doing business there, Microsoft chose to fight, spearheading an unprecedented Beijing-based coalition of American, Japanese, and European Chambers of Commerce. Faced with being left behind technologically, the Chinese authorities dropped their demands. Theoretically, China’s desire to be part of the Internet should have given the capitalists who wired it similar leverage. Instead, the leverage all seems to have remained with the government, as Western companies fell all over themselves bidding for its favor. AOL, Netscape Communications, and Sun Microsystems all helped disseminate government propaganda by backing the China Internet Corporation, an arm of the state-run Xinhua news agency.

Not to be outdone, Sparkice, a Canadian Internet colossus, splashily announced that it would serve up only state-sanctioned news on its website. Nortel provides software for voice and closed-circuit camera recognition–technology that the Public Security Bureau has already put to good use, according to the Chinese press. AOL is quietly weighing the pros and cons of informing on dissidents if the Public Security Bureau so requests; the right decision would clearly speed Chinese approval for AOL to offer Internet services and perhaps get a foothold in the Chinese television market. In fact, AOL signed a landmark deal with a Chinese station at the end of October. Smaller American companies and smaller nations smell the blood. Along with Chinese officials, they dominate Chinese Internet-security trade shows. China Telecom is considering purchasing software from iCognito, an Israeli company that invented a program called “artificial content recognition,” which surfs along just ahead of you, learning as it censors in real time. It was built to filter “gambling, shopping, job search, pornography, stock quotes, or other non-business material,” but the first question from the Chinese buyers is invariably: Can it stop Falun Gong?

In the wake of terrorist attacks on America, some of the byplay between Beijing and its entrepreneurial suitors has taken on new significance. According to James Mulvenon of Rand Corporation, Network Associates, a U.S. web security firm, gained entry to the Chinese market by helpfully donating 300 live computer viruses to the Public Security Bureau. The U.S. embassy has already monitored the picture.exe virus, which worms into a user’s computer and then quietly sabotages the widely available encryption software Pretty Good Privacy by sending the personal encryption keys to China. Last August’s notorious Code Red worm, which some thought originated in China, appears to have been little more than an amateur nuisance. But Chinese military reports on unconventional warfare explicitly advocate coordinated virus attacks to debilitate U.S. communication and financial systems during a crisis. America may expect a more sophisticated visit from the offspring of a Network Associates sample virus in the future.

Why has there been so little oversight of such corporate activity? As Michael Robinson puts it, for the first four years of the Net era, those with paranoid visions of China’s government were never quite able to square their suspicions with the rapid expansion of the Chinese Internet. Although it was widely rumored in Beijing that up to 30,000 state security employees were monitoring the Internet in that city alone, the monitoring was also laughed at. Apparently the bureaucrats liked monitoring pornography so much that they had a massive backlog. State security was said to be lax, corrupt, full of holes. Chinese whiz kids could still surf through the firewall and beyond. Associations could flourish among the patrons of the cybercaf s, using anonymous monikers. Many saw the Internet as a populist river leading to the ocean of the global community. Then, the Chinese government abruptly built a cyber-version of the Three Gorges Dam.

In October 2000, the State Council ordered Internet Service Providers to hold all Chinese user data–phone numbers, time, and surfing history–for at least 60 days. In November, commercial news sites were banned. In December, the National People’s Congress decreed all unauthorized online political activity illegal. January 2001 saw the criminalization of Internet transfer of “state secret information,” such as reports of human rights violations. February brought “Internet Police 110,” software blocking “cults, sex, and violence” while monitoring users’ attempts to access such sites. By March, the surveillance started to work; hundreds of e-mails on the controversy surrounding a schoolhouse bombing in Jiangxi disappeared. Around the same time, Chinese authorities announced near completion of a “black box” to collect all information flowing across the Internet. In April, arrests of democracy activists using the web and a nationwide crackdown on cybercaf s reached critical mass. Surviving caf s had to install internal monitoring software. E-mail to Tibet now took three days to get through, if at all, and Falun Gong e-mail was completely eradicated. By October 2001, when President George W. Bush flew to Shanghai for the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation Summit, he was entering an Internet police state. To deflect criticism, but perhaps also as a demonstration of power, blocks on U.S. news websites were magically lifted by Chinese authorities. The minute Bush went airborne, the blocks were back in place. During Bush’s current visit to China, any attempt to discuss loosening Chinese Internet controls is likely to be brushed aside using the rhetoric of our own struggle against terrorism (what, you’re against surveillance?). But if the Chinese take this tack, they are of course being dishonest about their own motives.

There were urgent reasons for the Chinese Internet crackdown; fighting terrorism wasn’t one of them. Instead, look to the slow-motion crisis of a leadership transition, the release of the Tiananmen papers, the emergence of a cyber-Falun Gong, and a stirring–you could feel it on the street–for greater freedom of expression, if not genuine democracy. Then again, there may be a more elaborate game afoot. Chairman Mao knew the utility of briefly loosening controls to create a dragnet. In effect, the current Chinese leadership promoted a “hundred flowers” period of relative Internet freedom–again, not to capture terrorists, but to expose anyone who disagreed with the legitimacy of their rule and to attract massive Western investment. American technologies of surveillance, encryption, firewalls, and viruses have now been transferred to Chinese partners–and might even one day be turned against our own ludicrously open Internet. We funded, built, and pushed into China what we thought was a Trojan Horse, but we forgot to build the hatch.

Consider a Chinese user in search of an unblocked news site (weeklystandard.com, for example). He won’t expect to get through, and if he does, it will be cause for alarm, for the site may be a tripwire–not for spam, but for state security. Everything he does on the web might conceivably be used against him. Pornography? Potentially, a two-year sentence. Political? Possible permanent loss of career, family, and freedom. E-mail may be the most risky: Two years ago, working from my office in a Chinese TV studio, I received an e-mail from a U.S. friend (in a browser-based Hotmail account, no less, which in theory should be difficult to monitor) with the words “China,” “unrest,” “labor,” and “Xinjiang” in queer half-tone brackets, as if the words had been picked out by a filter. I now realize that it was a warning; any savvy Chinese user would have sensed it instantly.

Before the crackdown one could escape and surf anonymously in a cybercaf ¬†or use a proxy server–another computer that acts as an intermediary between surfers and websites, helping to hide their web footprints and evade the filters. Not surprisingly, the most common search words in China were not “Britney” and “hooters,” but “free” and “proxy.” Fully 10 percent of Chinese users–about two million people–used proxies regularly in an attempt to circumvent government controls. In what Michael calls “the first sign of cleverness” by the government, a proxy pollution campaign began last spring when the Chinese authorities either developed or imported a system that sniffs the networks for signs of proxies. A user, frantically typing in proxy addresses until he finds one that isn’t blocked, effectively provides the government with a tidy blacklist. After a few of these tedious sessions, many of my Chinese friends simply gave up climbing over the firewall. For a small fee, expat users could turn to a web-based proxy browser, such as Anonymizer. But credit cards are effectively blocked for Chinese citizens. Just for good measure, Anonymizer was finally blocked as well.

IS CHINA’S Internet beyond redemption? Is it destined to be a tool of surveillance and repression, managed by the Chinese government and serviced by cynical Western partners? Maybe not. The Great Firewall might be vulnerable to a few physicists at the University of Oregon. I spent a day watching Stephen Hsu diagram the Chinese web and its weaknesses. Hsu and his company, SafeWeb, have developed a proxy server system called Triangle Boy. The triangle refers to the Chinese user, to a fleet of servers outside of the firewall, and to a mothership which the servers report to, but the Chinese government cannot find. Already tens of thousands of Chinese users have connected with it; five of the top twenty Triangle Boy search sites are in the Chinese language. Every day, the Chinese user receives an e-mail listing new addresses of Triangle Boy servers, which allow the user to visit websites that they would otherwise be unable to reach. Because the addresses of the servers change constantly, the system is practically unbeatable. Any attack, especially on the mothership, requires enormous resources.

But as surely as Triangle Boy works to liberate the surfing Chinese masses, you can bet State Security is looking for a way to pounce on this latest proxy rebellion. The simplest one will be to enlist American companies, still eager to curry favor in Beijing, and get them to develop software allowing the Public Security Bureau to sniff out and block proxies as quickly as they are created.

The only practical solution to this puzzle is for the Bush administration to make Internet freedom in China a high priority. At the moment it is a laughably small priority. The Voice of America, whose website has been a high-profile target of Chinese blocking, last summer began funding Triangle Boy to the tune of $10,000 per month. VOA officials undertook that small effort in frustration; they attempt to send daily news via e-mail to some 800,000 addresses in China, with no guarantee that they are getting through. Hsu estimates that supplying one million Chinese users with Triangle Boy (approximately 600 million page views a month) would require just $1 million annually. Budgeted at $300 million a year, VOA has the means and is wisely looking at several other solutions as well. But for VOA to justify an anti-blocking effort on a scale that will make a difference, it will need to be seen as carrying out an important plank of American foreign policy, not just acting on the margins as it is now.

And why not make this a higher profile U.S. policy? Cracking the Chinese firewall is at least as technically interesting as strategic defense. Triangle Boy is still theoretically vulnerable to spoof sites, authorization problems, or a Code Red-style worm attacking the servers. That implies a need for a highly technical layering operation, involving an endless and ever-changing supply of low-key web-based proxies, mirror sites, and encrypted e-mail and instant messenger services in Mandarin, Cantonese, and English, in sufficient volume to overwhelm the Chinese firewall.

Creative engineers, unleashed to solve the problem of bringing Internet freedom to China, might take any number of approaches. They might go through Hong Kong, where illicit cables are said to run to Guangzhou. They might cut some deals with a “loose” Chinese ISP, such as Jitong. They might use messages formatted as images to defeat software that sniffs out characters. They might exploit the fact that Chinese Internet addresses were originally configured in peculiar blocks. Or the fact that the government’s proxy-hunters come from only a few locations. A shrewd native engineer could probably root out and defeat 99 percent of these government agents.

None of these measures will be cheap. Nor can we expect the U.S. government to fully manage such a multi-pronged private-and-public defense of Internet freedom. Even if they back the overall concept, administration officials will inevitably want deniability about certain parts of such an operation. This means the project will need to attract the support of foundations, human rights groups, religious organizations–any group that cares about a free China.

But it will be worth it. Given the willingness of capitalists to work hand in hand with the Chinese regime, the Internet may be the only force left that is potentially anti-hierarchical. Think of it as a way to levy a web-based democracy tax on the Chinese government. Think of it also as a way around the university students and the intelligentsia, who are overrated as agents for democratic change in China.

As the father of the Chinese Internet Michael Robinson notes, “In the Chinese Internet’s infancy, the first three sites that the government blocked were two anti-government sites–and one Maoist site. What threatens them? . . . The heartland.” Ultimately, it won’t be the intellectuals who are key to bringing democracy to China. Irate overtaxed peasants with Internet-enabled cell phones ten years from now are the real target market. And those whose dream is democracy in China are operating with diminishing points of entry. The American business presence in China is deeply, perhaps fatally, compromised as an agent for liberalizing change. The Internet remains the strongest force for democracy available to the Chinese people. But it remains a mere potentiality, yet another American dream, unless we first grapple with the question: Who lost China’s Internet? Well, we did. But we can still repair the damage. We can, in Michael’s words, “lay down the communication network for revolution.” If we don’t, his progeny may not forgive us.

Ethan Gutmann, a visiting fellow at the Project for the New American Century, is completing a book, “Beijing Boot Camp.”

__________________________________________________________
Give your Company an email address like
ravi @ ravi-exports.com.  Sign up for Rediffmail Pro today!
Know more. http://www.rediffmailpro.com/signup/

From: AndriaE@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 7:08:04 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Vector, why don’t you give Patrick a name U love as your alias, as opposed to asking¬† Daddy PK to do it for U (cos that’s what I do sometimes, and then feel disappointed when I get something I don’t want; then like a little girl, I get all upset!!)

This e-mail from U is great, and I’d just like to add that the infestation of drugwar.com folk is the greatest thing for your country right now, while hundreds rage against the inhumanity and stupidity of arresting sick/dying people, not to mention their carers and loved ones

AND some of y’all begin to reflect on what happened 9/11..

Sending huge bundles and lorry loads of love, strenghth and sound-thinking to all of U

Andria Mordaunt

P.S: D’u guys really believe there are 6m addicts in America (Yesterdays Wash. Post) That is a funk of a lot of folks saying, ‘we can’t bear the existential inner and outer pain anymore..’ I should mention this in a Users Voice editorial if this is thge case…
What do y’all think?

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 3:50:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is the first time I’ve heard this. Thanks for
posting it. There was a lot of people writing about
China about 6 months ago on the more hacker oriented
sites because they want to build another great wall of
China and had a lot of American hardware companies
like Cisco manufacturing special versions of their
hardware to have their own internet and keep the rest
of the world out and China in. I guess on Sep 1 they
started putting it into action.

Peekabooty and Hacktivismo are two different
approaches to getting around their blocking
technology.

http://www.peek-a-booty.org
http://hacktivismo.com/

.:vector:.

— HSLotsof@aol.com wrote:
The World’s No.1 Science & Technology News Service

Google mirror beats Great Firewall of China

15:55 06 September 02

NewScientist.com news service

China’s widely criticised blocking of the web’s most
popular search engine
Google can be defeated by viewing a strange Google
mirror site through a
mirror, New Scientist has discovered.
The mirror site, called elgooG, is a parody of the
English language version
of Google in which all the text on the web pages has
been reversed. The text
terms used for searches are also entered in reverse.
The site, which returns
all the same hits as Google, can be accessed from
behind China’s “great
firewall”.
Viewing the page using a mirror makes it somewhat
easier to read, and would
allow someone to find a website. Web site
“mirroring” normally involves
copying the contents of a site and hosting on a
different server. This can be
useful if one server is particularly busy.
New Scientist ascertained that elgooG is accessible
from China using a system
that remotely tests China’s internet restrictions.
The system was created by
two researchers at the Berkman Center for Internet &
Society at Harvard Law
School in the US.

Routine block

Google has been blocked inside China since at least
1 September. It emerged
on Friday that a second search engine Altavista is
also restricted. The
action has come under criticism from western human
rights groups and
journalist’s organisations.
China’s government routinely blocks access to news
sites that host content
they consider unacceptable, such as the BBC’s news
site. Web proxies
including anonymizer.com and safeweb.com, which can
be used to view pages on
one site through another, are also blocked.
The reason for the latest restrictions is not clear
but observers have
speculated that government elections in November
could have prompted a crack
down on access to information via the internet.

Weblinks

elgooG <http://www.alltooflat.com/geeky/elgoog/>

Google’s Application Programming Interface
<http://www.google.com/apis/>

Chinese internet filtering test, Harvard Law School
<
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/test/>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 3:33:18 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

This is such a cool URL! ¬†ūüôā Thanks!

I don’t think anything here is broken, checking the
list by which all other lists here and maybe in the
world could be measured by I see that Drugwar has had
its usual 500 messages in the last 24 hours ūüôā Even
more interesting all the weirdos and really smart
freaks who write 20 really long messages to that list
every day have spread out and are starting to infest
the main Vox list.

It’s becoming very weird. When I first started to read
the Vox list is was already weird, now there are
hacker underground groups from all over the world,
people from the old Mindvox, nevermind I could fill up
a page about all the groups but it is one very strange
list with all different kinds of weird people talking
at each other. I’m not sure what about because lately
the Drugwar people have started to turn it into a
religious discussion.

It’s fun ūüôā And I’m learning more about goddess
worship cults then I ever thought I needed to know
thanks to someone named Day Brown.

.:vector:. who still needs an alias! ūüôĀ Patrick please
come on!

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi everybody,

this list has been unusually quiet lately, so I’m
testing if there’s
anybody out there ;-))

http://www.dromo.com/fusionanomaly/whydidthechickencrosstheroad.html

Marko

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “ElGrekkko” <ElGrekkko@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] increased drug use in USA
Date: September 6, 2002 at 2:55:15 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The only thing that comes to my mind when I read about
increased drug use in the US is that this can only be
the best news I’ve heard about in awhile. It means
we’ve finally come to our fucking senses.

—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: [ibogaine] increased drug use in USA

Hi everybody IN there,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40214-20
02Sep5.html suggests
that we have over 6 million people needing Ibogaine –
in USA alone!

Send them OUT of the States, so they’ll be able to
get some proper help!
(Or change stupid laws ;-))

Marko

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] increased drug use in USA
Date: September 6, 2002 at 2:51:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everybody IN there,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40214-2002Sep5.html suggests that we have over 6 million people needing Ibogaine – in USA alone!

Send them OUT of the States, so they’ll be able to get some proper help! (Or change stupid laws ;-))

Marko

From: HSLotsof@aol.com
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 2:05:10 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The World’s No.1 Science & Technology News Service

Google mirror beats Great Firewall of China

15:55 06 September 02

NewScientist.com news service

China’s widely criticised blocking of the web’s most popular search engine
Google can be defeated by viewing a strange Google mirror site through a
mirror, New Scientist has discovered.
The mirror site, called elgooG, is a parody of the English language version
of Google in which all the text on the web pages has been reversed. The text
terms used for searches are also entered in reverse. The site, which returns
all the same hits as Google, can be accessed from behind China’s “great
firewall”.
Viewing the page using a mirror makes it somewhat easier to read, and would
allow someone to find a website. Web site “mirroring” normally involves
copying the contents of a site and hosting on a different server. This can be
useful if one server is particularly busy.
New Scientist ascertained that elgooG is accessible from China using a system
that remotely tests China’s internet restrictions. The system was created by
two researchers at the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law
School in the US.

Routine block

Google has been blocked inside China since at least 1 September. It emerged
on Friday that a second search engine Altavista is also restricted. The
action has come under criticism from western human rights groups and
journalist’s organisations.
China’s government routinely blocks access to news sites that host content
they consider unacceptable, such as the BBC’s news site. Web proxies
including anonymizer.com and safeweb.com, which can be used to view pages on
one site through another, are also blocked.
The reason for the latest restrictions is not clear but observers have
speculated that government elections in November could have prompted a crack
down on access to information via the internet.
Weblinks

elgooG <http://www.alltooflat.com/geeky/elgoog/>

Google’s Application Programming Interface <http://www.google.com/apis/>

Chinese internet filtering test, Harvard Law School <
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/china/test/>

From: “Rick Venglarcik” <RickV@hnncsb.org>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 1:25:46 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The real question is whether or not there is anybody IN there.
Excellent website.

_____________________________________
Rick Venglarcik, MA, CSAC
Hampton Roads Clinic
2236 W. Queen St., Suite C
Hampton,  VA  23666

Office:  (757) 827-8430 x144
Fax:  (757) 826-2772
Cell: (757) 270-9839
_____________________________________

Iboga@guest.arnes.si 09/06/02 12:52PM >>>
Hi everybody,

this list has been unusually quiet lately, so I’m testing if there’s
anybody out there ;-))

http://www.dromo.com/fusionanomaly/whydidthechickencrosstheroad.html

Marko

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: [ibogaine] test
Date: September 6, 2002 at 12:52:01 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi everybody,

this list has been unusually quiet lately, so I’m testing if there’s anybody out there ;-))

http://www.dromo.com/fusionanomaly/whydidthechickencrosstheroad.html

Marko

From: laurentsazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] get off the list
Date: September 5, 2002 at 4:22:12 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

`please
get me off the ibogaine list
thank
lolo

From: laurentsazy <laurentsazy@free.fr>
Subject: [ibogaine] EXIT
Date: September 5, 2002 at 4:16:15 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

HELLO

COULD YOU PUT ME OUT OF THE LIST, PLEASE
I’LL BE OUT OF MY COMPUTER.
THANKS

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine From MI,
Date: September 4, 2002 at 2:12:48 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Dude sorry i thoght this was going to only you, e-mail me dude!if
you can
— Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey man im just a 23 year old kid who is unfortunety on methadone
but anyways.What can i do to help the movement.I take this very
seriously. I truly believe there is many good things that could
come
of the decriminalization of hallucinogens.I live in Ann Arbor
Mi.So
if you feel like responding.And would honor me with your time let
me
know what me and my ann arbor/Detroit counterparts can do to help!
I
was up ready the ibogaine story due to my insomnia at 4:00am its
weird that i see your name here.i read about some of your feets in
the 60’s–90’s i liked when you held the banner that said JUMP! on
Wallstreet.Just know that your Ideas/ideals arnt dying in the 70’s
and 80’s they are breaking on through to a whole new generation. I
hope you don’t mind but i turned on a couple people on to the
ibogaine story that includes you.at the clinic today it changed
there outlook they said it gave them hope>I have not been
fortunate
enuff to experience Iboga.So till then i’ll be slowly detoxing
feelin like shit off the “Pink handcuffs” that i ingest on the
goverments behalf.  Thank you DANA YOU have balls and you also
have
a heart and concience.Take care my friend.I’m not a cop or
affiliated with any gov. position.    Nick L.
— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Associated Press (Wire)
Copyright: 2002 Associated Press
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/27
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or
Sacramental)

GROUP WINS HALLUCINOGENIC TEA CASE

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) – A federal judge has ruled that a
Brazilian
religious group that uses hallucinogenic tea in its ceremonies
should get
back a shipment of the substance seized by U.S. Customs agents.

U.S. District Judge James Parker found that church members’
rights
under the
federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act were being violated by
withholding
the tea.

Jeffrey Bronfman, president of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente
Uniao do
Vegetal, or UDV, sued the U.S. Department of Justice after the
Customs
Bureau and the Drug Enforcement Agency seized 30 gallons (114
liters) of
hoasca tea from his Santa Fe office in 1999. No one was arrested
in the
raid.

UDV used to hold ceremonies near Bronfman’s home southeast of
Santa Fe,
where members consumed the tea that contains N.N.
dimethyltryptamine, or
DMT, a controlled substance.

The tea is brewed from plants found only in the Amazon River
Basin. The
religion originated in Brazil and its U.S. operations are based
in
Santa Fe.

In a 61-page opinion written Aug. 12, Parker rejected freedom of
religion
and equal protection claims raised by the church.

But he found that the government had failed to prove that the
tea
was
dangerous.

Parker granted the UDV a preliminary injunction, but U.S.
Justice
Department
lawyers could seek a stay while they appeal the case. It was not
immediately
clear whether government attorneys would appeal.

Both sides will meet Sept. 3 in the federal court in Albuquerque
to
determine how the religious group would be compensated.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Re: [ibogaine From MI,
Date: September 4, 2002 at 2:10:45 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hey man im just a 23 year old kid who is unfortunety on methadone
but anyways.What can i do to help the movement.I take this very
seriously. I truly believe there is many good things that could come
of the decriminalization of hallucinogens.I live in Ann Arbor Mi.So
if you feel like responding.And would honor me with your time let me
know what me and my ann arbor/Detroit counterparts can do to help! I
was up ready the ibogaine story due to my insomnia at 4:00am its
weird that i see your name here.i read about some of your feets in
the 60’s–90’s i liked when you held the banner that said JUMP! on
Wallstreet.Just know that your Ideas/ideals arnt dying in the 70’s
and 80’s they are breaking on through to a whole new generation. I
hope you don’t mind but i turned on a couple people on to the
ibogaine story that includes you.at the clinic today it changed
there outlook they said it gave them hope>I have not been fortunate
enuff to experience Iboga.So till then i’ll be slowly detoxing
feelin like shit off the “Pink handcuffs” that i ingest on the
goverments behalf.  Thank you DANA YOU have balls and you also have
a heart and concience.Take care my friend.I’m not a cop or
affiliated with any gov. position.    Nick L.
— Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org> wrote:
Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Associated Press (Wire)
Copyright: 2002 Associated Press
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/27
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or
Sacramental)

GROUP WINS HALLUCINOGENIC TEA CASE

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) – A federal judge has ruled that a
Brazilian
religious group that uses hallucinogenic tea in its ceremonies
should get
back a shipment of the substance seized by U.S. Customs agents.

U.S. District Judge James Parker found that church members’ rights
under the
federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act were being violated by
withholding
the tea.

Jeffrey Bronfman, president of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente
Uniao do
Vegetal, or UDV, sued the U.S. Department of Justice after the
Customs
Bureau and the Drug Enforcement Agency seized 30 gallons (114
liters) of
hoasca tea from his Santa Fe office in 1999. No one was arrested
in the
raid.

UDV used to hold ceremonies near Bronfman’s home southeast of
Santa Fe,
where members consumed the tea that contains N.N.
dimethyltryptamine, or
DMT, a controlled substance.

The tea is brewed from plants found only in the Amazon River
Basin. The
religion originated in Brazil and its U.S. operations are based in
Santa Fe.

In a 61-page opinion written Aug. 12, Parker rejected freedom of
religion
and equal protection claims raised by the church.

But he found that the government had failed to prove that the tea
was
dangerous.

Parker granted the UDV a preliminary injunction, but U.S. Justice
Department
lawyers could seek a stay while they appeal the case. It was not
immediately
clear whether government attorneys would appeal.

Both sides will meet Sept. 3 in the federal court in Albuquerque
to
determine how the religious group would be compensated.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Alison Senepart” <aa.senepart@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: [ibogaine] To Brett Calabrese
Date: September 4, 2002 at 9:17:50 AM EDT
To: “ibogaine” <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Thanks for all the info Brett.  I have taken it on board and will let you know how I get on somewhere down the road.
Anyways, Thanks… Allison

From: “Captain 357” <captain357@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: September 4, 2002 at 8:03:14 AM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Hi Marko,
Hard work and commitment to getting through this is paying off.  The only
things I do/take to help me feel more “normal” now is: eat right, exercise,
vitamins, try to stay in some sort of consistent sleep pattern (with the
help of Melatonin), and push myself through the real tough times.  Overall,
I’m doing better and seeing improvements.

Captain
—– Original Message —–
From: “Ustanova Iboga” <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels

hey, that’s much more… how should I say… sensible.

How are you feeling now?

From: Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: September 4, 2002 at 3:36:57 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

hey, that’s much more… how should I say… sensible.

How are you feeling now?

Marko

At 02:14 4.9.2002, you wrote:
Brett & Marko,
It was HCL I took, but my doses were way off. ¬†Dazed and confused… ¬†It
was 1.2 g initial, then 400mg two days later.

Captain
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels

> Marko,
>
> “you took
> > 35,7 mg/kg as the first
> > dose”
>
> OOPS, I missed that. Read it as he took 2.5 gm total
> (what was I reading???) which was (about) 1.3 and 1.3
> – totally spaced on that, read right through it –
> another reason to ask as many people as you can. I
> tell you, misplace a decimal point and you are in
> trouble…
>
> Yeah, YOU DID HOW MUCH HCL or exactly what? Was it
> whiteish or brownish (if you don’t know what it is),
> if it is whiteish it is HCL, if it looks like dried
> mud, it is Indra. HCL is about 5 times as strong as
> Indra.
>
> I would think that would be Indra or something like
> that or geez, that would be some trip report if he
> remembered any of it.  If this is true, certainly try
> taking 1gm and go from there but you could also do a
> full session (3+ grams).
>
> Brett
>
>
> — Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
> > Hi Captain,
> >
> > Are you sure that you took HCl? I mean, you took
> > 35,7 mg/kg as the first
> > dose, then 2 days later 18,5 mg/kg, and 4 days after
> > this (if I understand
> > it correct) another 18,5 mg/kg… This means that in
> > less than a week you
> > took 5,1 g or 72,8 mg/kg/week of HCl… Who gave you
> > that much???
> >
> > (sorry, I don’t feel competent to answer your
> > questions)
> >
> > Marko
> >
> >
> > At 20:18 30.8.2002, you wrote:
> >
> > > ¬†¬†Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo
> > treatment.
> > >Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
> > >2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
> > >6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
> > >I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed
> > for my questions.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
>
>

From: Gamma <gammalyte9000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: September 4, 2002 at 12:10:56 AM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

— Captain 357 <captain357@attbi.com> wrote:
Brett & Marko,
It was HCL I took, but my doses were way off. ¬†Dazed and confused… ¬†It
was 1.2 g initial, then 400mg two days later.

Phew…

a 2.5 gm dose of HCL at your weight was… scaring me.

-Gamma

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: “Captain 357” <captain357@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels
Date: September 3, 2002 at 8:14:27 PM EDT
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Brett & Marko,
It was HCL I took, but my doses were way off. ¬†Dazed and confused… ¬†It
was 1.2 g initial, then 400mg two days later.

Captain
—– Original Message —–
From: “Brett Calabrese” <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
To: <ibogaine@mindvox.com>
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] Ibo & residual Oxycontin withdrawels

Marko,

“you took
35,7 mg/kg as the first
dose”

OOPS, I missed that. Read it as he took 2.5 gm total
(what was I reading???) which was (about) 1.3 and 1.3
– totally spaced on that, read right through it –
another reason to ask as many people as you can. I
tell you, misplace a decimal point and you are in
trouble…

Yeah, YOU DID HOW MUCH HCL or exactly what? Was it
whiteish or brownish (if you don’t know what it is),
if it is whiteish it is HCL, if it looks like dried
mud, it is Indra. HCL is about 5 times as strong as
Indra.

I would think that would be Indra or something like
that or geez, that would be some trip report if he
remembered any of it.  If this is true, certainly try
taking 1gm and go from there but you could also do a
full session (3+ grams).

Brett

— Ustanova Iboga <Iboga@guest.arnes.si> wrote:
Hi Captain,

Are you sure that you took HCl? I mean, you took
35,7 mg/kg as the first
dose, then 2 days later 18,5 mg/kg, and 4 days after
this (if I understand
it correct) another 18,5 mg/kg… This means that in
less than a week you
took 5,1 g or 72,8 mg/kg/week of HCl… Who gave you
that much???

(sorry, I don’t feel competent to answer your
questions)

Marko

At 20:18 30.8.2002, you wrote:

Here’s the approximate breakdown on my Ibo
treatment.
Initial dose four weeks ago: 2 1/2 g HCL.
2 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
6 days later: 1.3 g HCL.
I weigh 70 kg.  Hope that covers the details needed
for my questions.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Brett Calabrese <bcalabrese@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Just found a “FRAUD ALERT” on T. Iboga at this site
Date: September 3, 2002 at 12:26:21 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

The alert, don’t have an exact date other than this
year. Also, another source for T. Iboga (what kind
they didn’t say but it is likely root and not root
bark or they would…)

http://www.tacethno.com/info/tabernanthe/serge.html

(from page
http://www.tacethno.com/info/tabernanthe.html)

They also have some nice ethnobotanical info here;

http://www.tacethno.com/info.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

From: Dana Beal <dana@cures-not-wars.org>
Subject: [ibogaine] more on ayahuasca
Date: September 2, 2002 at 9:10:24 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

Pubdate: Sat, 24 Aug 2002
Source: Associated Press (Wire)
Copyright: 2002 Associated Press
Details: http://www.mapinc.org/media/27
Bookmark: http://www.mapinc.org/spirit.htm (Spiritual or Sacramental)

GROUP WINS HALLUCINOGENIC TEA CASE

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) – A federal judge has ruled that a Brazilian
religious group that uses hallucinogenic tea in its ceremonies should get
back a shipment of the substance seized by U.S. Customs agents.

U.S. District Judge James Parker found that church members’ rights under the
federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act were being violated by withholding
the tea.

Jeffrey Bronfman, president of O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao do
Vegetal, or UDV, sued the U.S. Department of Justice after the Customs
Bureau and the Drug Enforcement Agency seized 30 gallons (114 liters) of
hoasca tea from his Santa Fe office in 1999. No one was arrested in the
raid.

UDV used to hold ceremonies near Bronfman’s home southeast of Santa Fe,
where members consumed the tea that contains N.N. dimethyltryptamine, or
DMT, a controlled substance.

The tea is brewed from plants found only in the Amazon River Basin. The
religion originated in Brazil and its U.S. operations are based in Santa Fe.

In a 61-page opinion written Aug. 12, Parker rejected freedom of religion
and equal protection claims raised by the church.

But he found that the government had failed to prove that the tea was
dangerous.

Parker granted the UDV a preliminary injunction, but U.S. Justice Department
lawyers could seek a stay while they appeal the case. It was not immediately
clear whether government attorneys would appeal.

Both sides will meet Sept. 3 in the federal court in Albuquerque to
determine how the religious group would be compensated.

From: Vector Vector <vector620022002@yahoo.com>
Subject: [ibogaine] Great 12 step pieces ūüôā
Date: September 2, 2002 at 4:43:51 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

I was bored and going through bushknew.com and found
the new links, including the NA link so going through
some of that junk I found a few funny links ūüôā

.:vector:.

NA Police
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/spirit/police.htm

How to save NA
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/spirit/howtosave.htm

The inflatible sponser
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/spirit/spon1.htm

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance – Get real-time stock quotes
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From: Nicholas Labus <goosebumpz2002@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy
Date: September 2, 2002 at 12:36:34 PM EDT
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Reply-To: ibogaine@mindvox.com

i dont give a fuck!track me down! just remember  theres lots of
caffe’s that have iinternet access.prohibition worked great in the
1920’s!//ya//for the gangster!
— preston peet <ptpeet@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
Um, is it legal to explain to us how to do this?
Sure sometimes wish I lived in Canada.;-))
Peace,
Preston
—– Original Message —–
From: Nicholas Labus
To: ibogaine@mindvox.com
Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ibogaine] genetic modification of poppy

please write back DO NOT JUST
RESPOND!Un-KIna-IA/Zim-zalla-alla-BIM
aNOTHERR THING FOR u.s.a. IN CANADA YOU CAN GET 222
OVER
THE COUNTER EACH HAS 15MGS OF CODEINE:SULFATE 10mgs of caffeine
and
350mgs of actamiophen or tylenaol you get to choose I use
tylenol
because it extracts easier well crush up 30 pills too a fine
powder
and put in{powder} just slightly below boiling H2O,for 5
mins,then
you put it in your fridge,not frezer then, let it get cold ,!you
see, opiates are water solubable and tylenol is barely, very
barely
water soluable. so when it cools you will see white chunks at
the
bottom and the rest will be kind of whitish clear water {with
codeine and some caffeine infused} well take  eiter cheese cloth
or
coffee filters and strain it while its extremely cold cuz, the
colder the water the less soluble the tylenol is well the
caffeine
is soluble too but out of 30 pills {15mg a pill of codeiene}you
should get about350mgs of codeine sulfate 250 mgs of caffeine
and
anywhere from200mgs. – 950mgs. of acetami./tylenol which is well
under the maximum does just remember strain it while its cold
and
you might have to double up on the cuffee filters but when i had
a
habit of 1/5 OF GRAM A DAY OF “RAW”{“H”} it got me straight but
codeine is not like heroin or morphine when taken in large
doeses
200mgs plus+ its more like taking a couple of valiums and a
qualude
and some morphine its very different from the heroin with will
make
you clean your house this codeine will make you so lazy i could
barely move {in a good way}hehe but very comfortable but ya! it
makes you comfortably numb. by the way you can barely tell
theres
caffeine in it,it’s like drinkin’ 3 cups of coffee witch helps
you
enjoy the codeine better, I swear this is true you know what i’m
gonna do it next week as a matter of fact well go to {+}Erowids
{+}
vault on codeine sulfate, he tells you more complex metods which
get
out the codeine strictly. But all it is,is the fact that one is
very
water soluble{COD.SULF.} and the other is only soluable in
boiling
water{Tylen/acetamino.} so heat it up mix it all up then cool it
down in your fridge but not freezing.4my first time I used a
pickleing jar then put two coffe filters on top after
ingrediants
are in then heated then shook it up while real hot then put it
in my
fridge till chilly actually i surrounded it by ice well as it
got
colder i could see the tyleol fall to the bottom and just float
in
the middle well i put 2 rubber bands around the coffee filters
which
completely covered pickeling  clear glass jar and tipped it
upside
down using the filters it took about an hour cuz i went and took
a
nap when its all drained you take the water the was strained and
is
still chilly and add some sugar and some cool-aide mix cuz its
EXTREMELY BITTER. and drink it. In 15 to twenty minutes You will
start too relax and your feeling of being “BOGUE” will start to
diminish if your dope sick then you will know you will be fine
go
take a nap then start on a big batch.Damn those canadians are
smart.
You can get 1,000 pills for i think $12 canadian it is illegal
to
bring them into  U.S.A. i bought 10,000 pills one time and
actually
bought lab equipment and i found these one pills that had only
100mgs of Tylenol and 10mgs of Codeine. and 10 of Caffe. so well
to
make it simple the less aspirin to codeine ratio is better well
i